Return to KLUBNL.PL main page

rsgb_lf_group
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: LF: WSPR-15 last night

To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: LF: WSPR-15 last night
From: N1BUG <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 09:01:15 -0500
Autocrypt: addr=[email protected]; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFqj1+0BEACggWlaH8oG/AiXSUG3CeQwZ1NrVEP4U7YsA9N9XEffjCDEsnTjHF2BJSgS 2AicyomkmTGvghEHxrNFfFw07jwgJl97ae/VtNxpERPSE98mb4sPOMpJbwddioMazMDXwhKA wpg5fse+Ru8OrIT04KK919xL/pZuAP6pY6d2kVoizjJOfS71pHpiU6N6q3d9cl+w7d2LKhAE a3A1ZgDquPvn0WQlrN8K5D66xVrwTRhf1b5H4Ozl8/mMJzCeLG1ZIsDB3Pu2flwE81P8dCJA y1azwgY8pTEshVk4em/se9uRiZaDJr/qUSCf6hrV7AGa8g1jpAQDmdGpDNYMqyDqXen4jNi1 8kNFVu1BMl2vjaI8skw/YPxIxlk/0ROHYhN6SuoDq1mt4AW4FryNa7k3A8dM8Bt7udBoTv0i uw4j9R/bmh2vl/QaHRUhDco0xn2z6geWvXkKqha++vzXDrEKUuqgB85SDZPs5W/phs9p0pz1 xA61d1gn8FQJtpou5dQuAucqMo8eKQY5LUcbC+MH5pebH+M2wIuDCBmFPJHQDSPNepeaxJ4o G/HU1hrpzlgLiTTSKR8DcwtMQwYywnCTlm8MgL4jXuPzoGyKDMYyKIjC51G+3AAOJ6oXJAGR g0ehhCPtmnCGBaRlUIoUSpbgc4B+onqFKZmDiVm9CRNJhKIWrQARAQABzRZOMUJVRyA8cGF1 bEBuMWJ1Zy5jb20+wsF9BBMBCAAnBQJao9ftAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUICQoLAgQWAgMB Ah4BAheAAAoJECRS/J8srRGjPBsQAIh+Haz9gqrQJ0OlMI5xmQ0A5nsVWcatWF/Ea4mucNjL 4n4jmW+Z4Ukn3OVss55chWwrOVMRNWU2d2zRc92ZF7yJhLCoJFV870bZfxNYwdJ3GEBLIu6/ anmQYX0oXFx8UBsx5K6egNqbeflPA7zrLiQkWrz6JApECdiA1rHDjyJdS7PDxBCG9cKgr/5b r4Rn/JlUl9pRPnxlSwHXsV+J6JtFYtWI69MWIVD7Y7OY1wO9+684uOnzeDANzeIwpBDcSm6p 0D5u0b1hfPl2TD0ozVs6P0NvxkMbimXUhRR1QD0FvydyxmZTLAo+XZDGR8GqWYrYrauoRZ1h 3m23+bNT2T4AuoFnWekpsZu+sxIf0LKPtEZCa51O65jZ810ROpXg9Lx71gEoQD+kbjO69+kq 9r7wjytDq/jyhpOGrGYV6kgcQrISY86t9YvkA9Of2HDzZLih3GwecW6fkeV1AO5w4RteE9nL zIs2siGw2YqavF6LpTH71Db7cUYyZWn5hkKpwfpLNnPEuqgZACovpH1WUHx+KMqqIL4rMVCH GcSLqnH2KF4cEDb6OeTbwuLfpGlN+I3j24eQnB2uz5rDa7/IBjsClLl8S/wdDTP8IikBGixX 06v3k06tk/OF4UsfJ0cY/ASGP5+kjT4ASMZAIikwVMpKi5A5be77vecKNYlJQ2a6zsFNBFqj 1+0BEACaujZXo3F17v7QTnub4DjjYvm+nr8J0uU5pPc1UMEz9eWjmtmITm15fx1hPKNtVW+I VlT+DG+ShNnYmO2M4CFBoc7PwkAOc70aDxfHz20kotvj1HhXG7oBiqPkN3TK4C7qWV1HUEPA V960qPdhsoCqmtkvNwj39w1T0ZR5qwwaqDogs9UwBib7zseQ3OXHG32xYYCMcxM35hgXGkkz R7wFL4ZnAPOeFb8LnWtZcrGpwXdsYkXuCxm+A+u9KlFY+w3ZCzZt1F9Ie+/PSZnFIUtbXt2i mfc+VkRwOLz5BDAeWuDL09TN81+gbrR3kXlymDcCbuduO/yHOQK085qzE3LuImdy+JNb7oDf 1C/hvpRvtB02vVy33rzIXT8644SJzFY/mw/W39/BgHKCoL1FrBbfgf0UoIFw5M752i7jQwmv j5yFfnVAXIPpCuusMwWMGVpZcGV7QxJxh0HBEhYgOo9v3zKwzNIPm9V/LA67u/rj4a/MlCE0 mpd6IHaePE1vXDaboPZHZdhAziru5/Jd7KQI0k+HmM/HRANPRNDZ4UeBpgj9PzS6hDN5GHlZ fRUbI8JAg9wSaQtEn0bjyaR7lw0yngZTvvjT1Qqt5zGwm1IAall2STes5xK0aS7p+UJJMVbf ydZ5VOnocvUkwYxbiqoyuVtGxi4tpWW9CRstYXMkAwARAQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJao9ftAhsM BQkJZgGAAAoJECRS/J8srRGjTDMP/18q7uhac/naxoFsOqhgXIlvaPgu6GX7s/QOh+bcSV1F y50lxo51P/C95H2TVME/CtCjk2xWQcNjWtXloMEsZpl7T3qWgJHvyZYkDtgh3M6UNY+zb08U K9E2+rR0AZ6zdMKio7Z1xA9BtbUpSZpvy2NgjoYVqo35NllUWMZJq0u+88PvE5WeCIqLipNI EZmUcG9UwolQbPkrRc42ReL+bFbuXGXDA5GbQ0RudXbugI8iUwaw3ftaKElIZtuHW0hw1VrU 9tVHsxKyEoKgNNT1hr+dgRmvCHmA87Pi4R5cMV0ZkLVOYfPX1motedag7HmSNPi2PkYLts4z kyvPEJe2IvaPvjvK1ShRWWgje3uytrhfwyjUZcIuA76RWEfBbwT2Mbrn9O7LvrYtbTiTlsLo Zdk2uocuefBvPd2oI7mTn5eLy/VDy2JVnlb9vpZZhriXI4KtCcP6mYyuPxlxqj/30Kn1fU5b C4EpnKy6hW1CHM42DbwzT+ChjBpFbX9bfwT4qn6d42+T4mN5wkmfnBRHfcn8Wf1ezRSK3Ome Esa3ZDssj23CZHe11uec6Ln14qoB7JyRT9qM3Q99tzvAlmWFM3GrSsG94g4JponQjQWHmr8B eMYezwJHzSI7zWElJpzs/OuohstTYfYTy16FygUOEinc1K4ywjEklgRpXRtjKvqc
In-reply-to: <BBFBDD1106944C22804920DEDCC454AC@DELL4>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> <BBFBDD1106944C22804920DEDCC454AC@DELL4>
Reply-to: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1
Thanks Jay,

Yes, I shamelessly copied your transformer design. it is a stack of
three 2.4" cores, 77 material. The cores are Fair-Rite parts
purchased from Mouser. Each core was wrapped individually, then they
were stacked and the whole thing wrapped to bind them together.

Good suggestion about moisture in the box. I just now went out and
pulled the cover off for a look. I see no evidence of frost or
moisture. I also checked inside the 50 gallon plastic drum
containing the coil with similar findings.

My present theory is that something common to both LF and MF changes
resistance as RF warms it. Assuming the change is happening at the
antenna end of the line, I think it is natural that on MF the
scopematch would show a reactance change even though it is really
resistance that is changing. I freely admit to being not too clever
with a Smith chart, but I believe such is expected with a 1/8
electrical length feed line.

But if that theory is correct, that leaves the coax itself
(doubtful), the antenna (not including coil), ground system or some
environmental factor.

73,
Paul


On 11/20/18 8:30 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Paul
> 
> On your website the pix of the transformer looks to be a stack of 3) FT240 
> cores ... assume you're 
> using 77 material? If so, this same setup handled a kW of rf at WD2XNS with 
> no problem ... with one 
> exception.
> 
> Your pix also shows that you used the same sealed enclosure that I used. On 
> more than one ocassion 
> the core and inside of the box became heavily 'frosted' causing various 
> impedance matching problems. 
> Bringing the unit indoors and allowing it to dry out restored normal 
> operation when installed back 
> out at the antenna. Apparently, the sealed box allowed it to develop it's own 
> internal 'atmosphere' 
> and the problem occured during periods of wildly changing temperature and 
> humidity. The cure was to 
> drill a number of holes in the bottom of the enclosure to equalize the 
> 'atmosphere' inside and 
> outside the box. Alternatively, a small 'breather' could be fitted to the 
> case. Don't know that this 
> is what's going on in your case but it's easy enough to check.
> 
> One other thought ... did you wrap the 3 cores with tape individually before 
> assembling the stack? 
> Have seen unexpected problems at HF when not doing that so I now do it as a 
> matter of course.
> 
> Jay W1VD
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "N1BUG" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:44 AM
> Subject: Re: LF: WSPR-15 last night
> 
> 
>> Hi Stefan,
>>
>> On 11/20/18 6:50 AM, DK7FC wrote:
>>> Don't waste to much time, it is now the best time in the season! Do you
>>> have a second PA, maybe a QRP version? Still worth to try!
>>
>> No, because I had an attack of stupidity. ;-) Instead of saving my
>> old PA, which would be 3 or 4 dB down from the new one, I took it
>> apart to experiment with the design. My idea was to upgrade and
>> modify it to create a spare PA that could be almost equal to the big
>> one. Seems the idea was OK. :-) But for many reasons I did not
>> continue that project. I will look around for the box which contains
>> that project, maybe I can easily put it back to its original form...
>> if the cat didn't find the box and take too many parts!
>>
>>> Maybe you can run a permanent carrier and reach negative R values then?
>>> The world's energy problems will be finally solved! ;-)
>>
>> Hmm, then I will be rich and famous or just famous?
>> Or neither and remain infamous? ;-)
>>
>>> Depends on how you measure the current. A saturating current transformer
>>> will become warm or hot. Should be easy to check.
>>> Or it is an iron dust core thermally drifting away. It is useful to
>>> measure the voltage behind the LPF.
>>> Just some spontan thoughts.
>>
>> OK, thanks for the ideas. I did notice last night something
>> interesting on MF. The phase was changing slightly during each TX
>> period. Something to note is that on MF, the coax to the antenna is
>> almost exactly 1/8 lambda electrical length. So any change in
>> antenna R shows up mainly as a change in phase at the transmitter.
>>
>> So it may be that something in the antenna is changing R on MF also
>> (with only ~75 watts RF). It's a completely different coil and
>> transformer so what could it be. I don't know.
>>
>> Maybe I am cooking trees? Just joking. It will be some engineering
>> defect in my RF systems. Good news is there is plenty of snow now,
>> so any fires around the antenna should be slow to spread. :-)
>>
>> 73,
>> Paul

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>