Thanks for the run down Tobias
The windows re-sampling caused problems with wspr in the early days
on MF , as its possible that wspr had never been used in a
situation where 100% of the signal arrived at the RX . qsb was
normally part of the process ..
This caused a strange problem . where strong signals failed decode
, where as low level with qsb did
It eventually transpired , that the sampling rates where not quite
the same on all systems and the short bursts masked the timing
differences , tested by sample audio files and a stop-watch
Later , we found Opera / Ros [ ros was first] that decodes failed
with other software running , additional routines where added to
ensure the sample rate was held at the correct speed , since then ,
all has been ok
I used soundblaster 5.1 external usb card , can be picked up s/h now
on ebay for very little
73-G,
G0NBD
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tobias DG3LV" <DG3LV@gmx.net>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 11:27 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: USB Sound Card?
Hi Jim, Gary !
Experiences with Software Defined Radios ("Softrock" type) over years
showed me the highs and lows of using a soundcard as an A/D-converter for
HamRadio use. The situation improved from using the onboard-devices to
professional external Firewire- or USB-2.0 soundcards as they became
available at reasonable prices.
to A) it's true, the windows type drivers support up to 16 Bit only. There
are some issues to sampling rate stability under windows, too. That's why
SDR-programs like Winrad, HDSDR etc. use the alternative "ASIO" driver
model, where 24 Bits are supported natively and where the latency is
smallest. ASIO drivers typically are bundled with (professional)
soundcards for studio-recording. I had the usual "EMU-0202-USB" card,
which was sampling at 192kHz/24 Bit. As this is available no longer, today
I use an "Icon Cube" and "Icon Cube pro" (2/4
Channel,192kHz,24Bit,USB-2.0) for my softrock SDR. They are not too
expensive and do a good job!
to B) Windows has different properties for the hardware sampling rate and
the offered (simulated) sampling rate. If these are not identical, there
is a software up/down-resampling done by windows. You have to set the
correct sampling rate at the hardware-settings (!) of the chosen soundcard
input/output. (sometimes Win7 resets this to 44.1 kHz/16Bit at another
booting, so you have to check this first after booting up the PC.)
e.g. Even if the soundcard is just sampling at 48kHz, the windows drivers
offer 96 and 192 kHz as well, but actual audio-data is still not more than
48kHz, the rest of the spectrum is filled with "blanks".
to C) Typically the anti-aliasing filters of a soundcard are bound to the
current (hardware-) sampling rate (=Nyquist) and not be static. Those
filters are digital ones and part of the A/D converter chips. But the
datasheets of soundcards shows the filters of the 44.1/48 kHz sampling
rate only (0-20 kHz), as this is the standard where the "dB-"measurements
are done.
73 kHz Rx :
In Europe you can receive the DCF77 signals (77.5 kHz) very well by a
length of wire (or better a PA0RDT) and directly attaching it to an input
of a 192 kHz soundcard. (Here 55dB above noise at 600km distance, software
time-decoding by "SoDiRa" SDR-software). It is the same setup as used for
SAQ-listening at 17.2 kHz (using HDSDR).
For decoding digimodes (WSPR,JT65,WSQ...) a simple USB-micro-soundcard
($5) or onboard is ok, the programs just use "mono" and 48kHz at most,
even the cheapest (for headset use) do well.
73 de dg3lv Tobias
Am 15.08.2014 22:12, schrieb hvanesce@comcast.net:
Gary,
I use a number of expensive and inexpensive external (USB) audio
interfaces, and I like them all (good sensitivity, good dynamic range);
but I experience the following limitations:
A)
I have not been able to persuade Windows and/or Speclab to process 24
bits (I have been successful in applying 24-bit settings in
Windows>ControlPanel>Sound and Speclab, but have not acquired valid
data after doing so; and accordingly have always used 16-bit settings
with 24-bit external audio interfaces, even though I need at least 24
bits for dynamic range considering VLF and LF environmental noise in
some of my locations)
B)
Similarly to the above, I have been able to set up Windows and Speclab
for 192kHz sample rates, but have not been able to view past 48kHz
without aliasing (and accordingly I settle for 96kHz settings and
interfaces in most cases)
C)
All of my external audio interfaces have steep low-pass filters at or
near 22kHz pole frequency, so SNR is compromised for signals at 20kHz
and above. I’ve disassembled some of these interfaces in attempts to
modify the low-pass filter cutoff frequencies, but without a schematic
could not be certain regarding changes.
Have you seen any of the above issues with internal or external audio
interfaces that you have used?
73, Jim AA5BW
*From:*owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT
*Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2014 3:25 PM
*To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
*Subject:* Re: LF: USB Sound Card?
Hi Warren,
Yes, I had an internal (on main board) & used it for a while for my
grabber when 73kHz was first allocated to USA.
It was good to about 94kHz.
The SB0490 I suggested is only 96kHz :-((
*73, de Gary - G4WGT*
* *
*MF-LF-VLF Grabber :http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber2.html*
*Web :http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/index.html*
.
On 15/08/2014 20:09, Warren Ziegler wrote:
I guess I should have been more specific .
What I am seeking is are some sound cards more stable with respect
to sampling rate and calibration? Also, any advantage to 24bit A/D
for LF data modes?
I wonder if anyone has tried 192kHz sample rate for direct
reception of 73kHz?
73 & Tnx Warren
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com
<mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com>> wrote:
I just acquired a Windows Vista tower computer - the price was right
it was free!
Seems that there is a problem with the internal sound card, but
everything else checks out FB.
I plan on using it with WSPR and other digital modes, am thinking of
an external USB sound card - will any old sound card do ? Or do I
need one with a calibrated sampling rate? I suspect that I will need
something really good for Spectrum Laboratory if I want to sample at
microHertz rates.
73 & Tnx Warren K2ORS
--
73 Warren K2ORS
WD2XGJ
WD2XSH/23
WE2XEB/2
WE2XGR/1
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