Dear John, LF,

Please take the time, some minutes, and read the following.

I agree with Peter stated below and also unsubsribed from the yahoo group 2 days ago.

There are some arguments that i want to add. Of course these arguments are not acepted to be serious from the pro-change-party. Probably they will not even take the time to read and try to understand a different way of thinking.

In this change progress i missed fundamental democratic steps! We have been growing as ONE GROUP here, so it is a PITY that a small fraction has now splitted the group and talks now in a very bad way about the "old blacksheep" reflector. We should have moved as ONE GROUP as well! 155 members in one week at yahoo is much. But how many have been subsribed to blacksheep? Sure, most of the TOP20 posters and many experts have moved. But there has been a party ("An "LF-reflector" Yahoo group instead .....PLEASE") that suggested the change. Some have agreed and some have disagreed. But the majority didn't state anything. Someone could have been in holidays (or still is) and never got the chance for codetermination! BTW no one has had the chance for codermination. There was no vote, maybe in form of a doodle voting. What we saw is that the pro change party accomplished you to start the new group and make an announcement about it here in the group. And then you added a very important subordinate clause:

I propose to keep this blacksheep.org list going short-term until we see how people adapt to the new online list.

This formulation is here in Germany very well know from the politicans, who often describe a situation and there proposed solution as "alternativlos" (without an alternative). I think THIS is why so many moved to yahoo, they simply think they have no chance to participate what will be done (like in politics!!).

So, John,  what is if we have been 300 members here at blacksheep, or 1000? Some have very valuable comments from time to time but they stay in the background for most of the time. If you actually shut down this reflector and we loose say 10 % of members (i think it will be more), is that a good decision? I think we should have some respect of what was achieved here on this adress! We are THE LF reflector and not an ordinary yahoo group, one of 10000s...

Let me show you an analogy to this reflector. The SAQ transmitter. There are several people who enjoy each transmission, every year, since many years.
The SAQ transmitter is world cultural heritage and many have respect about that old stuff and what was achieved in the past!
Imagine someone would come and say "PLEASE CAN WE HAVE A NEW SAQ TRANSMITTER" He states the following arguments:
The current SAQ transmitter:
-is old
-is heavy
-is loud
-is low efficient
-is unstable in frequency
-cannot be operated by anyone in any mode
-needs a long time to be ready to push the PTT
-has problems to easily find replacement parts
-has had a failure some months back

A new SAQ transmitter has the following advantages:
-silent
-high efficient class E PA
-flexible operation
-several new protection circuits making high availability

etc. etc...
Real arguments, right? So why not throwing the old one on the junk yard and arrange a new one? No, never! Because the transmitter is a part of the history that has been so fascinating. If a small group of the SAQ club actually reach to do that step, many of the members would go for ever! This is what's going on here now!

A SHAME!

There are some features stated by the pro change party why it is worth to move to yahoo, like the permanent storage of files on the yahoo server. But take a look at the development of HDD size of a standard PC and the data transfer rate of internet connections in the last 10 years. So how can the storage of simple emails and some images be a real problem in these days? If it is a problem in these days, it must have been impossible 10 years ago.

Furthermore, i see the email exchange here as a more private thing, more like a closed group. Just a subjective feeling. On yahoo, it is official in the web, visible for everyone. That's not the same, that's not fine! Maybe no problem for those who jump arround in 10s of other yahoo groups but i prefer personal contacts.

I'm sure there are many who will not comment on the current situation. You see, the comments are coming from less than 30 people. But be sure the group will loose some members!
If you think that is worth to do what's going on here, then do what you think to have to do.

73, Stefan/DK7FC


Am 03.06.2012 10:37, schrieb pws:

To John, G3WKL,

Please do NOT shut down this reflector.

1. It's active in positive sense.

2. There are too many hams here who say
"no thanks!" to that advertisement driven
Brave New World were each posting will be
"googleable" for ever. Me too.

That's the reason I unsubscribed from
some Yapoo-Groups recently.

73 Peter, df3lp