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Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<

To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<
From: "Graham" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 01:14:39 -0000
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[email protected]>
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Jay , noted,
From past experience ,  the  introduction  of new  technology via  news  groups  has been  proved to  be  counter  productive  for  all  involved ,  Take the  introduction  of  the  ROS-HF mode ,  combining   direct  sequence  and  cdma , to  give  parallel  access  to a  single  channel combined with  low power  requirements  and  qso ability  akin to  packet  in the  connected  state , with  no loss  of  throughput , ie  2G mobile  phone technology
The  usa ,  now  suffering  from  lack of  bandwidth  and  over crowded  data  sections  of the  bands ,  still  has no  access  to  technology  that  would solve  the  problem ,  those who  did  try  to  resolve the  problem , where  branded  un patriotic  by  other  users inside the  usa , the  latest  JT modes are  smaller  b/w  but  still  support only  pre-formatted  text  on a  one to  one  qso  basis .  meanwhile , rest  of  world  makes  good   use of  the  technology , stats  from the  psk-map  show   665  uses  in a   7  day  period , even the  27MHz CB users  use it  for  long haul dx ,  bright  green on the  map. As the  24 Hr  shot  shows ,  saturation usage inside  EU especially  on 14.103 -yellow-
Ive noted the  posts  and comments  etc,  may  be true  from  an observers  point of  view, but  from a  engineering design aspect  the  comments  are  merely   observations  on engineering facts , simple  as that , development  continues  ..


Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<

The shift last night on my transmission was 2 minutes - significantly under the 4 or 5 minutes that has been stated as 'processing time'. With no OPDS reception at DK7FC, DF6NM or anywhere else in EU, and with all of the false detections appearing on the screen I would not put any trust in those detections. From here, SV is an incredibly difficult shot. IIRC my signal has never been received there and I have received SV8CS only one time ... ever! 
You can try and belittle DF6NM OPDS setup procedure but it's becoming clear from the posts here, and in private e mails I've received from users of both 'systems', that there's a serious problem with false decodes in Jose's system. I agree with LA4ANA's comments about how important it is to keep false detections to an absolute minimum. The responsible thing to do would be to pull OP 1.5.5 from circulation and encourage stations not to use it until a better functioning version is available. 
At this point I have little interest in transmitting OP so as not to contribute to this problem.
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2    
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<

There  1000  miles  apart and  exactly  the  same time , the 4  min  shift  is not  a   timed  function  , this  shows 5 tonight
19:10 136 G8HUH de SV8RV-14 Op32 Deep Search 1487 mi -42 dB in Zakynthos(Zante) isl. GREECE

19:05 136 G8HUH de GW0EZY Op32 94 mi -8 dB F:21% in Welshpool IO82ho

yes  I have  the  opds  system ,  even  edited the  file  paths  in the  config.sys  or what ever ,  bit  like old   bike , needs a  few  adjustments to get it  going ,  all  the  decision  making  logic  is  contained  with in the  package .
So far tonight ,  everything  looks ok 

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<

DF6NM's OPDS is much closer to perfection. I take it you've never used OPDS ... so you're not aware of the differences in performance.  
Those two spots look good at first glance but they didn't adhere to the 4 minute time differential from standard mode reception. What is one to use to judge the likelyhood of a real spot? Unlike DF6NMs OPDS there's no correlation % and dB 'certainty' indicator, an accurate time indicator or an accurate frequency readout that can be compared to other grabbers for corroboration
With so many bogus spots in Jose's deep search it's hard to trust any of them.
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2  
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' <<


Well  nothing is  perfect ,  all  the  beacon systems produce  strange  spots  

I don't even   have  a  136  Tx  and  am  regularly  spotted on 136

2015-01-01 19:01:38 G0NBD   2056km 137513.376Hz   3mHz -36.6dBOp  95% 15.4dB

This looks  convincing to  me, two  at  the  same time into  UK/SV

00:34    136 WD2XNS de SV8CS Op32 Deep Search 4722 mi -42 dB in Zakynthos Island with 1w +
00:34    136 WD2XNS de 2E0ILY Op32 Deep Search 3245 mi -42 dB in Shropshire IO82qv with 1w +

As for   the  pdf ,  I got  the  impression  the  11 dB  claim  in the  opds  document  was a  little  optimistic, I note  Markus  talked  of  9 dB in a  recent  post, I assume that was perceived  as a  challenge ?, other than that content is  solely  under the  control  of the  artistic  director. 

One  thing  this  is 100% certain  technical  issues still  take  on a  east / west  divide ,
24 Hour  wspr  on LF 
24 Hours  Opera  LF

From: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 3:10 PM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: LF: New version  OPERA  >>  ''Opera Dynamic'' << 

> Graham
> I won't be quite a 'charatable' as Mike ...
> There were at least two false detections on my transmitted signal (WD2XNS) last night that I saw ...
> one into G and one into SV. About the only way to tell they were false detections was the time lag
> between actual and the 'Deep Search' output - it wasn't the expected 4 minutes. Had there been no
> 'real' receptions during that time period one might have actually believed what was reported ... as
> you did and reported on the Yahoo reflector.
> On receive from here last night from there were false detections of VO1NA.
> I saw one detection of a G station in JA make the list! This was clearly a false detection. No doubt
> there were plenty of other false detections but after this couple hour 'outing' with 1.5.5 I gave up
> on it. It's clearly not ready for prime time and should be pulled from circulation and return to the
> drawing board!
> Perhaps the author, instead of taking the time to write a 'propaganda' .pdf page about DF6NM's OPDS
> and include it with the download, should spend more time actually making his software work as well
> as Markus's. In almost a year of using OPDS I have identified only one false detection. This is
> severly at odds with Jose's test of OPDS. Since Jose seems to now like the idea of Deep Search,
> maybe he should 'borrow' more ideas from Markus ... like the correlation % and dB 'certainty'
> indicator, an accurate time indicator and a highly accurate frequency readout. These indicators,
> especially when correlated with other OPDS users grabbers, makes the very rare false detection with
> OPDS obvious.
> At this point Markus's OPDS runs circles around Jose's Deep Search ... regardless of what his
> 'propaganda' page says.
> Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2
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