Re: LF: Loop TX antennas at VLF?

[Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>]

Yep, I guess you're right Scott. And you know better than most.  Ah well, it was an interesting idea to toss around.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 18 March 2011 21:53, Scott Tilley <sthed475@telus.net> wrote:

Hi Roger

The practicality of pumping 35A into a loop is not an easy task!  Couple this with the stability of most capacitors creates a real engineering challenge for a loop on 9KHz, notE the BW and Q.  Not to mention really low ERP one would get. 

This will be an engineering challenge for sure!

73 Scott
VE7TIL

On 3/18/2011 2:39 PM, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

Hi All

Just run Andy's spreadsheet for magnetic loops to see the sort of figures we get at 8.9kHz. Assuming 100W and a loop diameter of 10m with 3mm wire the efficiency works out at -87.4dB and the ERP -67.4dBW (0.2uW). There is also the matter of the low loss 6211.7nF capacitor. With larger loop diameters, thicker wire (or multiple paralleled wires) and maybe 200W then the ERPs are starting to get more useful. 

The Marconi does seem a better bet, even with all the issues with losses in the huge loading coil, but a VLF TX loop doesn't look a total "no-hope" approach. Larger loops, with improved efficiencies, may be easier than kite or balloon supported ones in a /P location.

And then there is the widely spaced earthed electrode antenna..... but I won't start a discussion on the merits or otherwise of this as I am about to go on holiday this weekend and will not be able to respond to emails next week. We know from work by DK7FC (and VLF professionals) that this does work as a radiating structure.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 18 March 2011 14:09, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wondering if anyone has done the maths to work out what sort of ERP could be expected at 8.97kHz with, say, 100W to a smallish loop antenna in the garden?

It would certainly avoid the need for very very large matching coils and may be easier to engineer than a Marconi. Even an efficiency of -80dB would allow 1uW ERP and, judging by results from G3XIZ with around 2uW, this could be useful with long stable carrier transmissions of several hours. Most of us could run a loop with an area of 100sq m. with thickish wire in our gardens. A loop might also be more practical for portable operations perhaps with a triangle with one high support.

Certainly my own results with WSPR at 136 and 500kHz with just a few watts and quite thin wire and around 80sq m loop area were encouraging. Mind you, 9kHz is very much lower than 136kHz, so the radiation resistance would be tiny I assume.

73s
Roger G3XBM

--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL G11088

--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL G11088

-- 
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
https://sites.google.com/site/sub9khz/
G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL G11088