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Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
From: "Graham" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:47:07 -0000
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[email protected]>
References: <[email protected]cal> <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
Reply-to: [email protected]
Sender: [email protected]
Quite so Mal,
Opera  was designed to  have a   minimal  of  hardware  requirements ,  the  Dynamic  addition , uses  the  user pool  to  provide a  go   no-go  check , Time is  used  as the  measure  not the  instigator
Two  stations ,  same  call , same  time  stamp , extracted  from a  random environment

18:05 477 G0NBD de SO5AS Op8 Deep Search 994 mi -35 dB in Komorow 1495.6 Hz with 12.5w + 40ft top load inv L

18:05 477 G0NBD de EA6ZL Op8 Deep Search 1022 mi -36 dB in IBIZA 1499,5 Hz with 12.5w + 40ft top load inv L

 data  decode 60 seconds  previously , 

18:04 477 G0NBD de G4WGT Op8 21 mi +4 dB F:3% in Chorley, IO83qo, 1532.7 Hz with 12.5w + 40ft top load inv L

There is  a single  validated  UK>VK spot  and   a single  KV>SV  validated  dynamic  spot  :,)    we know the  Uk spot  was  7  seconds  from the  UK  spot  time ,  some  co-incidence eh : )
Good  condx  to  night  as  well ..
100 watts  to the   40 x 60  ft  top  load inv L
SM2DJK 600m OPERA 1750 km 18:21:30
EA6ZL 600m OPERA 1645 km 18:12:20
SO5AS 600m OPERA 1601 km 18:28:37
DF2JP 600m OPERA 696 km 18:20:25
G8HUH 600m OPERA 240 km 18:20:25
G4MSN 600m OPERA 109 km 18:20:24
G4WGT 600m OPERA 33 km 18:20:25
G0NBD 600m OPERA 0 km 18:12:10

Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 6:19 PM
Subject: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

Graham es Co
I like to see a constructive discussion about different data modes ie any advantage one mode has vs the other.
While both Opera and Wspr have merit in their own unique ways there is a  problem with Wspr if the clock accuracy varies then no decodes are possible. I have experienced this myself on reception. Opera seems very user friendly and straight forward to implement and operate. Key the TX directly no transverter or ssb transmitter or time accuracy required and bingo you are in business.
gl to all
de mal/g3kev
From: Graham
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
Unfortunately the Op8 decodes from Reunion would be under Deep Search
Hi Luis HA HA  
Well , we know  wspr and  opera dynamic uses  the  same  correlation  technology , that's the  reason for the  text  look  up  table in each mode ...  AAA+ qualified without doubts ;-)  quite !!
However ,  Opera  uses  the  internet in more  elegant  way , not  just clock  setting, to  dynamically  validate the  spot , and as you  know ,  Opera  is not  a  time division  multiplex  system, so  false  dynamic  spots  have  nice  random  time  stamps  ..unlike  wspr , that  is time  locked  , so  the  real and the  imaginary  are  very  difficult  to  tell  apart .
The  work needed  to  separate the  dynamic  from the  op8 to the  psk-map  would be  extensive, due to  the  multi  path  reporting  system  , the  simple  work around  was to  split the  feeds .  Operas is a  complete  system , Tx and Rx , with intelligent   internet deployment. the  psk-map is only a  indicator  and not  the  output device , that's the  opera  application
wspr 15  was also a  failure , you  cannot  just  scale  up a  mode and  expect  it to  work and  has  unrealistic  hardware requirements,  notably ,  also  uses the  same  text  support table.
No need  to  improve  over the 60 watt's ,  would  be  enough  to  reach EU , G8HUH  used  100  watts  carrier power,  even -3 dB  would be  50 , the  Opera  decoder is  not  desensitised  by  strong  in band  signals , and in there lies  wspr's  problem , it was  never  designed to  accommodate  strong  in band  signals as  found  on  MF/LF.
But .. for   some, reality is  only a  secondary consideration.  like  opera  is  only  50% efficient ,  apparently when the  TX   off ,  then  it's   wasting  power on the  off  cycle ,transmission  depends on the  available  energy , if its  off half  of the  time ,  then it  has only used  Half the  energy ...

Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 9:53 AM
Subject: LF: RE: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
Hi Mal, Graham
Unfortunately the Op8 decodes from Reunion would be under Deep Search
And you know. Not considered "real" decodes by the purists and so, garbaje qualifyed
Not showed on PskReporter map, either
WSPR-15 may be another option, but stressing a PA for 15 minutes is not easy without nice matching
and not sure if that is possible there. A WSPR-15 decode should be AAA+ qualified without doubts ;-)
QSB on MF may be also an issue, for a 15 min WSPR TX, as previously discussed in this reflector
Anyway worth a try. I'm sure FR5ZX is trying to improve his Tx on MF and there are better conditions
to come on this band, ins't it ?. We have to be patient .....
73 de Luis

De: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] En nombre de mal hamilton
Enviado el: viernes, 13 de noviembre de 2015 10:17
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

Tnx info
If you could contact him and ask him to divert to  Opera reporting sometimes it would be interesting since quite a number of MF OPERATORS are active at present. It would be a worthwhile exercise and QRSS would also be worth trying for a real time QSO
From: Graham
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
Not  yet, as far as we know Mal,
Tom, G8HUH  asked  in the  yahoo  group after  his  wspr  spot ,  by the  report  Tom achieved,  FR5 , would  of made it back   to  Uk with his  60 watts in OP8 directly
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
Does FR5ZX. Monitor opera on 477 KHz
A lot of acty tonite
De mal/g3kev

Sent from my iPhone

On 12 Nov 2015, at 14:30, "mal hamilton" <[email protected]> wrote:

It would be interesting to compare OPERA against WSPR at that distance to FR5ZX
also it would appear that a QRSS QSO would be possible on MF
73 de Mal.G3KEV
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR
Interesting conditions to Reunion last night
A total of 23 spots from FR5ZX. Only four stations reported
1 from G8HUH at -30
3 from SV8CS best -24
6 from DK7FC best -24
13 from EA5DOM best -19
From Rick Strobbe ON7YD reference site for LF antennas I have seen his calculations for a vertical
antenna with inductive topload. May be is the closer configuration to what I have managed to get here
There is no mention to the feeding point for such antenna. In my setup H(L) is 80m and I'm feeding
at the coil base. Total H is 80+11= 91m
The Ra calculated from Rick formulas is over 8 Ohm (not mOhm)
This radiation resistance seems too much to be true. But results are proving really outstanding
I'm just feeding the antenna with 70W, believe it or not and it is not really resonanting on WPSR frequency but on 488KHz
as I adjust the variometer up at the antenna and then run a coax line to shack which changes it all
The 80m pipe which forms the H(L) is really more complex in practice. It goes down to building basement
and there splits into different pipes. One connects to presure compressor and water tank. The other runs
underground 40m to the twin tower and then runs up again another 80m into the twin (parallel) tower
The pipe section running underground is not metal, but plastic. The iner water column should work as
current conductor. That water is confined in the pipes and presurized. Should be saturated with metal oxide
similar to a heating circuit, so probably the plastic pipe got metal deposits inside which make it even better
conductor than the water colum itself
Any thoughts ?? Am I getting >10% efficiency ??
73 de Luis

De: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] En nombre de VIGILANT Luis Fernández
Enviado el: lunes, 09 de noviembre de 2015 16:01
Para: DK7FC; [email protected]
Asunto: Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

From WSPR database, FR5ZX transmitted in 503KHz. Is 630m band not allowed in Reunión?


73 de Luis



Enviado en portable

------ Mensaje original ------
Desde: DK7FC
Fecha: 09/11/2015 14:48
Para: [email protected];
Asunto:Re: LF: Re: FR5ZX on MF WSPR

Hi Genosse Roman,

FR5ZX is using a resonated vertical antenna with capacitive top load near his house. He also transmits with this antenna.

73, Stefan

Am 09.11.2015 01:35, schrieb Roman RW3ADB:
Parteigenosse Stefan!

Any news about FR5ZX RX-setup? )

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