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Re: LF: Re: RE: Field Strength Measurements

To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Field Strength Measurements
From: Chris Osborn <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 08:20:27 +0000 (UTC)
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Dear Rik,

Many thanks again for the most useful explanation.

Some of my past career was spent in an electrical calibration lab. so I cannot get used to the scatter of readings I get with field strength measurements - HI !
My calculated value of 0.38 watts ERP was obviously an average of several readings and they
ranged from about 0.25 - 0.5W

Your deduction of my aerial current is interesting.
My system comrises the TX, a step down (voltage) transformer, variometer and aerial.
The whole system is tuned by means of a 'scopematch' unit and with 56W output the aerial current, allowing for the step up current transformation is 1.8A

My next step (once it stops raining) will be to take some measurements on higher ground as suggested.

Ian G4GIR (Bedford) and I have been doing some comparison tests on MF.
Using the G3YXM grabber we transmit simultaneously using the same RF power and then compare signals on the grabber's graphic display.
Results for the two of us are similar and with outputs of 56W we indicate at the -60 dB level.

Once we get an accurate measurement of our EIRP we could use that grabber as a calibrated monitor.

73
Chris G3XIZ





On Friday, 8 April 2016, 11:30, Rik Strobbe <[email protected]> wrote:


Hello Chris,
 
a lazy-L of 9m by 40m should have a radiation resistance (Rrad) of +/- 0.25 Ohm.
If you know the antenna current (I) you can calculated the EIRP = G*I^2*Rrad where G = the antenna gain (referred to an isotropic antenna).
The theoretical gain of a short vertical monopole is 3 (4.77dBi), but this assumes a perfect ground and no obstructions. A non perfect ground will affect the antenna pattern and gain.
Whereas the max. takeoff angle over perfect ground is 0° it will rise over non perfect ground. In addition the gain will slightly drop.
I simulated your antenna using Mmanagal:
Over perfect ground the max. takeoff angle is 0° and the antenna gain is 4.7dBi.
With a "real ground" of 20mS/m and Er= 5 the max. takeoff angle rises 17° and the antenna gain drops to 4.2dBi (at 17°). At a low angle of 1° the gain has dropped to -4.3dBi, thus 8.5dB below the max. gain.
The fact that maximum gain is not at 0° takeoff makes is difficult to measure E(I)RP at ground level (cfr. Alans suggestion to go for higher grounds, if possible).
 
Just out of curiosity a prediction of the antenna current based on the numbers above: with an ERP of 0.38W (= EIRP of 0.62W) and a gain of 4.2dBi the antenna current should be close to 1A, assuming a takeoff angle of 0°. Now taking into account a 8.5dB low reading (due to the higher takeoff angle) the real antenna current should be 2.6 A.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 

Van: [email protected] [[email protected]] namens Chris Osborn [[email protected]]
Verzonden: vrijdag 8 april 2016 11:36
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: RE: Field Strength Measurements

Many thanks for the rapid replies gentlemen; they are very much appreciated.

Rik, thanks for the explanation of the two formulae and I've inserted that ERP formula into my spreadsheet now - excellent !

Alan, I take measurements in open fields to the south of Biggleswade and at about 1 - 1.5 km distance from the transmitter.
Noted about the advantages of higher ground measurement but we're fairly flat around here - HI !
I'll look at the O/S map and see what I can do.

Transmitting 56 watts my ERP was calculated as being 0.38 watts which just seemed rather low.
My aerial is a 40 m long inverted 'L' at 9m mean height with a reasonable ground system.

Making measurments of G4GIR's transmissions with his 260 watts at 16 km returned a value of 0.88 watts ERP

73
Chris G3XIZ




On Friday, 8 April 2016, 0:24, Alan Melia <[email protected]> wrote:


Chris two other points
1.  How far from the aerial are you taking the measurement .....you need to be at least 300 to 500 metres away
2   Because of ground loss problems even the best (fully in the clear) amateur short aerials measure around 5 to 6 dB low.(that is a 136kHz observation.) Often a better reading is taken say a mile away on slightly elevated ground to the aerial site. Jim Moritz did tests in a field adjacent to the Puckeridge Decca mast, with a 10m high inverted L.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 11:24 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Field Strength Measurements

Hello Chris,
 
(1) will give you the EMRP (Effective Monopole Radiated Power)
(2) will give you the EIRP (Effective Isotropic Radiated Power)
The formula P = 0.0203252(Ed)^2 will give you the ERP (Effective Radiated Power)
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 

Van: [email protected] [[email protected]] namens Chris Osborn [[email protected]]
Verzonden: donderdag 7 april 2016 23:58
Aan: LF Group
Onderwerp: LF: Field Strength Measurements

LF,

I've recently resurrected my old RF field strength meter as designed by PA0SE and published in the LF Experimenters' Handbook.
I've modifed it to measure signals in the MF band and have calibrated it with a home made Helmholtz coil arrangement.

This question may have been raised before but PA0SE gives the formula for deriving the transmitter power as

P = 0.0111 (Ed)^2  . . .   (1)

where E is the electrical field strength and d the distance

I've read in other places that the power from an isotropic radiator is

P = (Ed)^2 / 30

i.e.  0.0333 (Ed)^2  . . . . (2)

My calculated radiated power seems rather low so I'm wondering whether I should be using formula (2)

Any clarification would be most welcome.

73
Chris G3XIZ











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