Re: LF: DX with 472 kHz, earth electrode antenna, 25 Watts output :-)

[IK1WVQ Mauro <ik1wvq@stmb.it>]

hi Piotrek,
thanks for your infos.

only one question again:
I can try this in a field in the countryside .. this field is large
(about 100 meters square) but no builds, then no ground bands in
ground.
I can plant in the soil 2 to 4 rods (aligned along a side of the field)
.. no problems for distance: up to 100 meters is ok ..
according to you experience, can this setup to be ok ???
(for example: 2 or 3 rods near the TX (the "ground") and the
fourth rod placed 20 to 100 meters away (the "antenna")
...

thanks , 73 de Mauro IK1WVQ



At 10.59 20/09/2014, Piotr Herko wrote:

Hi,
Tnx Marcus for methodology for EIRP level estimation. I try calculate!
Mauro,
 Earthing  connected to shack is from band around my home. Band in about 1,5 meters deep in ground. It is connected to all my equipment. This band is first for safety on home.Â
Electrode is about 20 meters far from nearest point of 'normal' earthing point. Second electrode is simply 2 meters vertical  rod pounded in soil. This electrode is directly connected to tx output with 2,2 nF capacitor in serial. For connection I use isolated wire. Capacitance was selected to get lowest SWR. I was using for it home made NWT-7, DK3WX project, simple network analyser. It is simple observe on analyser where is minimum SWR, then change capacitor to get low SWR. But it is no problem  use SWR meter for it only. Output from tx is 50 ohm 5th order filter.  Isolated wire lay simply on ground. I dont see any significiant changes between wire on ground and hanging on fence. SWR is 1.1 to 1.4 according to weather.
I dont  know exatly  what soil is in my garden!  I think it is sandy clay.

Piotrek, sp5xsb



On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com> wrote:

PS: Forgot to mention that you may also need to consider directivity: The broadcast station used for the measurement should preferably be close to one of the main lobes (ie NE or SW). If there is significant deviation, you could either correct the measurement using the cosine of the azimuth difference, or simply orient the reference loop the same way as your ground antenna.

Â

73, Markus Â

From: Markus Vester

Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:25 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Subject: Re: LF: DX with 472 kHz, earth electrode antenna, 25 Watts output :-)

Hi Piotr,

Â

congratulations on those results from your ground dipole!

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In my opinion, it is somewhat difficult to estimate ERP directly from WSPR SNR figures, because the variations in skywave sttenuation and receiver noise floor are difficult to predict. I would probably go about it by using a receiver to measure the effective loop area Aeff of the ground dipole. This can be done with some broadcast station in the lower medium wave band, comparing receive level with that from a simple nonresonant loop with eg. 1 square meter. Only the voltage ratio (dB difference) is required so you don't need an absolutely calibrated receiver. Thus

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 Aeff = voltage on ground antenna / voltage on reference loop * 1 m^2

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If the frequency of the used broadcast station was significantly higher than your transmit frequency, you can make a correction for the increased skin depth:

Â

 Aeff' = Aeff * sqrt (f_broadcast / f_amateur)

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Then, during your transmissions you'll only need to measure the current to your ground antenna, and calculate ERP as

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 ERP = 1.83 * 62342 ohms * Aeff'^2 / lambda^4 * current^2

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Best 73,

Markus (DF6NM)

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From: Piotr Herko

Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:32 AM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Subject: LF: DX with 472 kHz, earth electrode antenna, 25 Watts output :-)

Hi,

I reached OH8HTG WSPR, Â 1414, Â km with my earth electrode antenna! TX is M1GEO project, DDS RN3AUS, electrodes are 20 meters apart. Antenna is directly connected to 50 ohm tx filter with serial 2,2 nF capacitor. SWR is about 1,1 to 1.4 according to weather. Direction of the antenna is NE, 50 deg.

So far my WSPR was received in DL, OK, OE corner by DH5RAE,  DJ0ABR and  DC1RJJ, about 650 km far. Also closer by SP2OVY and SQ5KLN.

Who can help me estimate EIRP power? I declare now in WSPR beacon 5 mW.

2014-09-20 02:14   SP5XSB   0.475636   -30   0   KO02ld   0.005   OH8HTG   KP34   1414   12Â

 2014-09-20 02:12   DK7FC   0.475684   -9   0   JN49ik   1   SP5XSB   KO02ld   911   66Â

 2014-09-20 02:06   SP5XSB   0.475636   -33   0   KO02ld   0.005   OH8HTG   KP34   1414   12Â

Piotrek, sp5xsb