Thanks Andre, I tried to save it to a different name and it wasn't happy, but seemed to download to its default name...I will have to rename it later, I collect "design ideas " from EDN and have a veritable load of file names starting with 6 numbers. Fortunately those have an "di" at the end and the numbers are a date. I think someone somewhere must have written some code to look inside PDFs and dig out the title....wish I know where to find it !!