Below is an exchange between James Dean, Radio Amateur's of Canada, Industry
Canada liason and myself regarding concerns raised by Hydro Quebec to
amateur operation on 2200m.
I feel this may be of interest to anyone in any region not presently
authorized to allow amateur operation on 2200m.
73 Scott
Hello Scott:
Thank you very much for your very generous offer of expertise and
equipment to conduct an experiment on the possible susceptibility of
the Hydro Quebec LF plc power grid monitoring and control network to
amateur transmissions in the 135.7 to 137.8 kHz band.
Ken, VE3PU, gave you a very good summary of the problem, but to set
the scene, perhaps I could amplify his remarks with the information I
sent to my contacts in Montreal. After that, I will discuss a possible way
ahead, and I do have some specific info requests for you, and the
other addressees, if they would like to voice their ideas.
Here is what I said:
"The situation is the following.
Background:
In preparation for WRC-2003, Canada tried to get on the agenda a
request for a world-wide secondary allocation to the Amateur Service
at 135.7 - 137.8 kHz (a Canadian initiative by decison of Industry
Canada). However, as the item had not been put on the agenda for
WRC-2003, the conference refused to add it as it might constitute a
precedent for adding agenda items that would allow administrations to
add items, effectively hijacking an agenda. The conferences have
controlled their agendas very tightly. Having rejected the allocation for
consideration at WRC-03, the WRC-03 conference did put the topic on
the agenda for WRC-2007, for which the background studies are now
in progress in the ITU and elsewhere. As you know, under RAC
auspices, Industry Canada has granted special authorizations to a
number of amateurs (about 8) to conduct propagation experiments at
135.7 - 137.8 kHz in support of the allocation request, as well as for
other reasons.
Just before WRC-2003, the FCC in the USA was set to grant a
domestic US allocation in this band to its amateurs, but cancelled at
the last minute because power utilities raised concerns about the
potential for interference to the monitoring and control of the power grid
which the utilities do by controlled carrier plc in this band. The power
companies just stated their objections; there was no experiment or
any proven problems of interference from amateurs. So it was a
political decision.
Prior to WRC-2003, Canada had obtained CITEL and IARU support,
and as you know, CEPT has authorized its amateurs to use this band
for more than 15 years. No problems of interference to the power grids
in CEPT countries are known, but they may use a different control
system than is common in North America.
Current Situation
As we prepare for WRC-2007, IARUhas been supportive and support
within CITEL has been building thanks to the general support and lead
of the Canadian delegation. In the studies at ITU, there has been
support for the allocation.
However, because the utilities in the USA were successful at quashing
an amateur band allocation there, Industry Canada has suddenly
become concerned and has gone to the utilities here for their reaction.
Canada at present is somewhat hesitant to give us a full endorsement
because the representative of the Canadian Electrical Association,
who comes from Hydro Quebec in Montreal, is raising the fear of
interference from amateur radio causing a shutdown in the power
systems. Unfortunately, Hydro Quebec does use 136 kHz for control,
right in downtown Montreal. The engineer is leaving the impression
with Industry Canada that this is a potential problem across the
country. Hydro Quebec is quite willing to conduct tests, but as far as I
know, we don't have any amateurs currently interested in the band in
Montreal. We note that all power utilities have been informed through
the CEA, but that Hydro Quebec is the only one that seems fussed.
The engineer from Hydro Quebec is concerned that the proposed
amateur power limit of 1 watt eirp at 1 km would induce a 4dbm signal
on the power lines. The plc monitoring and control system operates at -
14dbm (if I recall his numbers correctly).
It has become very important to deal with this issue. We need to be
able to go to the ITU study groups and to CITEL and say that it has
been shown that the there are no problems with interference from
amateur operations. The ideal solution would be to have an experiment
at 136 kHz conducted with Hydro Quebec in downtown Montreal. I
don't know if Hydro Quebec would accept the results of an experiment
conducted elsewhere."
So, what is the way ahead? There is no doubt that we have to address
the problem with Hydro Quebec.
My contacts in Montreal are working to see if they can come up with a
site in downtown Montreal and if they can find an interested individual
or club to take on an experiment as an urgent project. I have been
encouraged by the chats I have had. I think it would be preferable, if
at all possible, to conduct any experiment in Montreal as Hydro
Quebec would be part of the solution to the potential problem
that they raised. An experiment that showed no interference at their
operating frequency of 136 kHz in a geometry of their choosing would
both allay their fears and also have have high credibility with IC and
internationally.
I hope to hear from Montreal in the next few days. In the meantime, I
have been asked some questions by Hydro Quebec with which I would
appreciate input from all of you.
The first question that they asked is what would be a typical antenna
arrangement ?
Please give me a description of your transmitting setup and the
antenna system. I have been trying to tell Hydro Quebec that there is
no one system that is used by all amateurs, so we will need to give
them some examples of typical installations. I presume that for the
purposes of the experiment, we would not need a receiving system
and receiving antennas, but I am open to your advice. Of course, an
amateur or club that gets involved likely will want to continue and
proceed to experiment with contacts with other amateurs, which would
be another link in our cross-country chain.
Hydro Quebec also asked: "-what would you suggest as a test
"message" (including the duration of dots, dashes and spaces)?"
Please give me a description of what you would recommend. Your
beacon information also would be useful.
As additional information, I think that it would be useful if you can find
out and advise me what frequencies are used for power grid
monitoring and control in your area. Hydro Quebec told IC in the last
WRC preparatory meeting that utilities across Canada typically used a
standard system, but your comments lead me to believe that this may
not be so, and also that the technology is changing.
I think that it also would be very useful to find out at what voltage
levels
the power utilities exercise control. For example, you mentioned 5 KV
lines in your area, but is grid monitoring and control really done at that
voltage? I am going to try and find out from Hydro Quebec at what
voltages they exercise control.
I think that this info will be a good start. Again, my thanks for offering
your help.
You might be interested to know that at the WRC meeting, in which we
discussed the 135 kHz issue, a number of the commercial groups
asked why amateurs were interested in 135.7 - 137.8 kHz. I explained
why and what we are doing. They were astounded. I don't think that
many of the individuals realized that we are able to experiment; I had
the feeling they regarded us as just a bunch of communicators like CB
or FRS, with which they are familiar. A successful experiment with
Hydro Quebec may well be important in highlighting the capabilities of
the Amateur Service to other spectrum users who are after our
frequencies!
Enough soapbox!
73,
Jim
Date sent: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:56:37 -0800
From: "Scott Tilley, VE7TIL" <
Subject: Hydro Quebec and 2200m...
> Dear Jim
>
> It has come to my attention that Hydro Quebec has raised concerns over
> amateur operation on the 2200m band due to its present control scheme
> which uses 136KHz in urban areas. I have been advised that RAC is
> seeking interested amateurs to conduct experiments in this region in
> an effort to prove that amateur operations within the proposed 2200m
> band will not have a negative impact on Hydro Quebec's control
> operations.
>
> I would like to extend my technical support to such a project and
> would offer whatever expertise and equipment as I can manage to help
> get a VE2 station on the air in the Montreal area. I can offer a
> completed PCB and transmitter design to the interested party and the
> necessary controller to operate a beacon/station. I'm sure between
> the rest of the other active amateur experimental stations that we
> could muster a considerable support effort to get an interested
> station on the air very quickly and start collecting data on the
> possibility of interference from future amateur operations in
> preparation for WRC-2007.
>
> Might I suggest this would be a perfect club project and I'm sure with
> yours and others considerable connections a club in the area could be
> asked to rise to the challenge.
>
> With the success we have had to date mapping and expanding what is
> possible on 2200m in Canada a sales job should be easier.
>
> For the record, I have not received ANY complaints from neighbours,
> officials or the primary users of the allocation after near continuous
> 24/7 high power beacon operation on 137778.0Hz over the last 6+
> months. My QTH is urban Vancouver and I'm surrounded by 5KV lines on
> three sides of my house. In fact it has been my observation that my
> HF activity produces more TVI within my home at lower power(<100W)
> then my 600W operations on 2200m. I believe this has to do with the
> high Q of the antenna structure and the use of a high quality low pass
> filter in the transmitter design.
>
> I have also informally spoken to the team leader of BC hydro's
> communication team and he advised no concern what so ever about our
> operations. In fact, he described a gradual phasing out of LF
> communication schemes in BC and the continued expansion of the
> microwave links used throughout most of the province. He advised that
> Loran C was a greater concern then anything an amateur could muster.
> This could be due to the fact that loran operates a transmitter quite
> close to where most of BC hydro's LF comms is used on the northern
> part of Vancouver Is.
>
> I'm seeking to reconnect with the above individual to begin a more
> formal communication about the possibility of interference between our
> respective services.
>
> Any guidance and leadership you can offer on this Jim would be greatly
> appreciated. Please keep me up to date and I'm very willing to
> provide whatever support I can.
>
> 73 Scott, VE7TIL
>
>
>
>
Jim Dean, VE3IQ
1134 Plante Drive
Ottawa, ON, Canada, K1V 9E8
Tel. (613) 733-5585; Fax. (613) 733-7613
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