Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

[M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>]

 Hi Markus and group

Very well put Markus I am with you on this.

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX

From: Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2013, 23:14
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

Hi Graham, Opera fans and critics,

 

in my opinion, it's not one but really two different arguments:

 

Yes, sharing source code is one. Surely one big motivation for spending time on amateur radio is learning. I'm curious to find out about the ways others are doing things, and expect them to be just as curious about mine. We are not only "users" but (by definition of being a ham) have an interest in the technology itself. That's why I prefer to share source code along with my humble (and sometimes ridiculous) programming attempts - ideally, ideas are free for all. 

 

But of course that's only my own preference, and I would surely respect an author's decision to keep his code to himself. In any case, detailed explanations about what a program or algorithm is doing are extremely valuable.

 

The other argument is about over-the-air protocols, which I would always expect to be published. There used to be a "plain language" rule, which formally made it illegal to use secret or encrypted codes in amateur radio. It had to do with political neutrality and prevention of abuse, but nowadays it still makes perfect sense to me. Open protocols also allow others to develop alternative (and perhaps in some aspects better) modulators and decoders. At least in principle, I would like to be able to understand the meaning of every single bit or dit which is leaving my antenna!

 

In my opinion, it is not enough that "anyone can download" a piece of proprietary software, allowing him to decode that secret protocol with an undisclosed algorithm. How would you prove to a suspicious mind what was really being exchanged over the air? Things are becoming even more complex when extensive data transfer over the internet is involved. As to myself, I can safely state that I haven't bothered to touch Opera software before Guido reverse engineered the protocol and made it publicly available. Just as well as I would rather avoid using proprietary digital voice modes in ham radio.

 

So much for my two cents...

 

Best 73,

Markus (DF6NM)

 

PS emails from Blacksheep are still coming here in with large delays and in wrong order.

 

 

 

From: Graham

Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:23 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

Its  the old source  code  argument

 

There are plenty of  locked  systems  in use , source code comes under  'IP' Intellectual Property rights , there is no  need  to  disclose  as  long as  all  can  use  the  same , sure  some  would  like to  see  'how'  but that's another angle  , same  with  encryption, DSSS numeric based data  modes like  Olivia , chip64, contessa , ros hf   as long  as  the  software  has the  same  keys  then that  meets the  requirements

 

The Opera  decoder is  a  data  decoder ,  Marcus is  running  correlation , pattern  matching , two  different things entirely , one has high  equipment  over heads , the  other  uses anti noise/ fec/afc  software routines to  negate hardware affects on system performance and counteract propagation conditions , Opera  is a  averaging  system and  requires  for a decode , the  average  of  the  min s/n  , from 50% of the  data  randomly dispersed along the  time  line , ie first 50  last 50  or  any 50%

 

G,

 

From: Bob Raide

Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:53 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

What your saying is for those of us wanting to improve things go play with the other systems and leave OPERA just as it is? Bob
 

From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 20:39:58 +0000
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

There  are plenty of  commercial  data  mode  systems  in use  on the  Ham bands  that  are locked  and not  publicised , from  my experience , the  locked systems seem to  give a  superior level  of performance  to the  open    code  versions , pactor-4  being a  good  example , using  modern  ss techniques  achieves  high data/power  ratio , but  missing  is the  cdma  layer that  would  enhance  b/w  user efficiency  , but  that  exists in another locked data  mode , which is  free

 

So  where /what  is the  problem ?

 

G,

From: wolf_dl4yhf

Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 7:41 PM

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

Thanks for forwarding the message Bob - so I won't spend any effort in implementing Opera myself if Markus's DS algorithm is really embedded in the Ros-software.
Despite the fact that I don't like, and will not use, the original Opera software myself as long as its author makes such a secret of it, leaving it to others to reverse-engineer the algorithms.

Cheers,
  Wolf .

Am 27.12.2013 19:31, schrieb Bob Raide:

Trevor and all;
Especially #1!!!  If that alone could be accomplished the rest later would do just fine. Bob, WG2XRS/4-4000 meters, WE2XEB-2200 meters, WE2XGR/6-630/600 meters-W2ZM...
 

To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
CC: tsmithers@cix.co.uk
From: tsmithers@cix.co.uk
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 16:48:00 +0000
Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

 

A few thoughts for Opera enhancements VLF to 160m

(1) Deep Search Detector built in to existing Opera system with ability to run alongside existing
Op decoders and report directly to PSK reporter

(2) Reinstate the dual receive function without having to open multiple instances of the software.

(3) Dynamically resizable screen or replace the dials with led bar type indicators - would make
the overall screen size a little smaller.

(4) Option to "tear off" the waterfall to enable positioning on another part of the monitor screen -
like wsprx for example.

Trevor G0KTN

__._,_.___

Reply via web post

Reply to sender

Reply to group

Start a New Topic

Messages in this topic (1)

Recent Activity:

• New Members 3

Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use • Send us Feedback

.

__,_._,___