From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.219]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD022-8b794b87c31ee9; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:48:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9BCFB380000FF; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkzau-00051k-3i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:47:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkzat-00051b-Oa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:46:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkzaq-00053S-VQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:46:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QCkpUN090633 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:46:52 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00249 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:51:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:51:52 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:46:54 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40db4b87c31c1385 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > Dear LF, > > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for industrial noise. > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. But i don't test it. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.30]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB014-a1884b8410ae398; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:30:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B4E8E380038D8; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyWM-00033m-Co for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyWM-00033d-1G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyWJ-0005pD-76 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: (qmail 20275 invoked by uid 507); 23 Feb 2010 18:25:26 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 18:25:26 +0100 Message-ID: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:25:39 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601e4b840fe572ba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Trying again. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 23/02/2010 at 14:16 John RABSON wrote: From: John RABSON To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:00 +0100=20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >My LF ground system consists of nine rods each 1 m long, separated by >about 2 m. if I connect them in parallel the inductance at 980 Hz is >about 7=B5H, and the resistance is about 25 ohms. This suggests that, at >the frequencies we are considering, this is an essentially resistive >termination and we don't need to cancel out the reactive part. =20 > >If we place a similar setup at the other end of a long wire we should see >of the order of 50 ohms. Given that we are working at audio frequency, >perhaps the step-up transformer from 8 ohms could use conventional soft >iron laminations. At 50 Hz, my colleagues used to use a rule of thumb of >20VA per pound of laminations but I can't remember how this figure varied >with frequency. > >Can any audio power engineers please comment? > >73 >John F5VLF *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b82ed1f47; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:46:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 710FD38000049; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:46:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njf9d-0004WH-V3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njf9d-0004W8-Ch for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njf9a-0005Iy-Ux for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2088974bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:45:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KkdZG7UE8df8d4qzKoSXVGWcG52x6grsrV3oPEE0NoA=; b=cBtk0JCJMYPuAlBN5Gcmr3zGnR3iyG7G9lMxZOozD0jvP8dUax9/kV3tau9tI/yBmI zlkvHztnoAOgxc5HDV/Lru0cvAvdqSgcVEL1H1orYZreOqfBeFUtdaRuLkGFBfY7oCNi jvhefzqIsl9dD2DY2vD+d84/YgtJQfQytc4M4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BBhvmeLUXcC4lhU8QVYvM42PGZkTyK3ZwLHFAdzCwZh51IF4TGEsslO1XXxhrnzkPn WQysswHDxtwvdHSZddwJh1iRyWUn/g/wcWJTFlcGy2Avt38RqHa4bAUbqwKLivg2B1G7 AWEnzDc5herh1jkGq9rT0Mg7YNicPiIS2a3f8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.38.77 with SMTP id a13mr2245307bke.26.1266871512056; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:45:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:11 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a31673c3a4048036826c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m256.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b82ed1d11d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a31673c3a4048036826c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My thoughts precisely. The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for a NoV for 8.9kHz a few years ago. mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event', whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged on principle. Anyway, Ofcom as was were quite helpful, and even arranged a three way phone conversation with myself, Ofcom themselves, and a representative of the percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people. The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead", they'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure they would) Ofcom said they'd go away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all stopped. Despite chasing, nothing more was heard. I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath wrote: > Hello LFers, > > I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. > As it is very likely that the only listeners > down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have > always found that it's better to ask > for forgiveness than to ask for permission! > > 73, J.B., VE3EAR > > LowFER Beacon "EAR" > 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 > > > > > > > --00032555a31673c3a4048036826c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My thoughts precisely.
=A0
The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in= 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader
=A0
=A0
As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for 8.9kHz =A0a= few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event',= whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged= on principle.
=A0
Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even arranged a three= way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom themselves,=A0and=A0a repres= entative of the=A0percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenie= nced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people.
=A0
The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead",=A0 th= ey'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never dete= ct a signal; they were sure they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go= away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all= stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 I lost= interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and sto= pped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop.
=A0
On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath= <weazle@hur= ontel.on.ca> wrote:
Hello LFers,

I'd ju= st like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. =A0As= it is very likely that the only listeners
down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. =A0I ha= ve always found that it's better to ask
for forgiveness than to ask= for permission!

73, J.B., VE3EAR

LowFER Beacon "EAR&qu= ot;
188.830 kHz. QRSS30







--00032555a31673c3a4048036826c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-a97c4b82c6081f7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 843BB380000D7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYJ-0003VZ-H4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYI-0003VQ-VG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjcYE-0003vp-QY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1920695bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6CMnxJd3kM9G6PB+byJ57bBuEtFgO6XKeYz0Pwiko5g=; b=HszRV16JjKCxaG1bMjQZRMxauPpdhh/WhwfSX+PBekuMdR5BwZp2ECfEc0smtNM6l/ y+LMkgaOPNA4n09Du/2hns2e2OD/FQbXsBWV66jr1OXS1NB3B8BouIYRXoLc0wI0aIA/ LLClEb2VyKwl8IOuPdRrAK3jdWIodJNFLJ1hU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=nWR/f8S9t8HYRB3RRA7GVNk0+Qso0V5pdVAaKUws+nvhsUbCXV6ZyzFAeUEdwCrzIW uoMnXgs4Mca4xZCsAEUntq7GnvtsGHJRafYA/PMiBLWyyKGBWggIigFw94SZrOM+iMfE R1xDa9Hyso8YcVzm0HgzdYX0NerTJ55llhihU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.156.22 with SMTP id u22mr2299532bkw.24.1266861507397; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220958v216c300byec6f9bbfdf8f9e53@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d237.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b82c6060e79 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive antenna system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz! Thanks - interesting link. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:37, Warren Ziegler wrote: > Roger, > > I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with > submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites > into the water. > The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin > which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 > watts! > Interesting write up on the web: > http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn > wrote: > > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with > another > > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one > - > > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they > must > > all be paranoid. > > > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would > scrap > > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into > renewable > > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'm > > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA wrote: > >> > >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to > >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I > remember > >> was:- > >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we > >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > >> issuing any licences for that region. > >> > >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be > different > >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > >> > >> Alan G3NYK > >> > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive anten= na system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way= some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz!

Thanks - intere= sting link.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 17:37, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com> wrote:
Roger,

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites
into the water.
The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin
which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8
watts!
Interesting write up on the web:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2= 003.pdf

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM,= Roger Lapthorn
<rogerlapthorn@gmail.com= > wrote:
> This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with= another
> request. I will happily do it if no-one else will.
>
> With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to alloc= ate
> "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern= was a military one -
> possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low= VLF
> region - and they were "instructed" to give this response.= =A0 If so they must
> all be paranoid.
>
> On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would= scrap
> our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into re= newable
> energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here.= I'm
> happy to discuss this with others off-list.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably= need to
>> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at= one time
>> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as= I remember
>> was:-
>> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty= but we
>> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will= not be
>> issuing any licences for that region.
>>
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be= different
>> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach woul= d be
>> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff th= rough.
>>
>> Alan G3NYK
>>
>
> http://g= 3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm= .co.uk
> http:= //www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175df23820c8320480342ec1-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.212]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD011-86074b77d5e72e; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:52:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 91A79380000DE; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngc48-0001K3-QS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngc48-0001Ju-6S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:04 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngc45-00030u-8j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:03 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1EAowqO008199 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:58 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:59 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:59 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: I'm proud of this Thread-Index: AcqtMI7iKtxO6/nUQlWz0RNGNnzENgAMWYrs References: <228790.97819.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.14.103922 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42" Subject: LF: AW: I'm proud of this X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d44b77d5e559de X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Andy! =20 Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna for DCF77? =20 In the web i have found that page: http://www.ptb.de/de/org/4/44/442/index= .htm#Kontakt There you can find the adress of the working group leader of DCF77. Maybe= it is not the perfect adress but it one that has to do with DCF77. If you= give him i technical description (surely they all can read it in english)= and the report and ask for a confirmation oer perhaps even a QSL, you pro= bably will get an answer... =20 Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR Gesendet: So 14.02.2010 05:35 An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: I'm proud of this Greetings all; and best wishes:: To some this may be trivial; but to myself, it is something I have tried for over 2 years, and tonight the propagation was great, and I was able to decode " DCF77 " with MultiPSK Clock. The signal peaked at S-6, solid copy. I made a recording of the signal, but it had began to fade and was showing signs of multipath. I also have a screen shot of the decode. Both can be acessed at ::: http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ Does anyone know if DCF77 will confirm receptions by QSL card ?? I still have not decoded HGB yet, and time is running out for it. 73 All::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjwKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFgAAAEFXOiBJJ20gcHJvdWQgb2Yg dGhpcwDmBgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAOAAsAMgA7AAAAaQEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIADgALADIAOwAAAGkB AQmAAQAhAAAAQkUwQjQ3OEJEQjVDOUU0RTg2QTYyREFGRUFGRTk5N0EAsAcBA5AGAGgSAAA4AAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkAQoz3l2OtygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7 YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjE0MTA1MDU5Wi02OTkAAAAeAEkAAQAAABYA AABMRjogSSdtIHByb3VkIG9mIHRoaXMAAABAAE4AgIrjHS+tygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1y c2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNn 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------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.145]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC064-86a44b7479e764; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:43:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E02E1380002B2; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:43:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfgn2-0001vH-Go for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfgn2-0001v8-2h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:36 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f173.google.com ([209.85.222.173]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfgmz-0005Mv-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:36 +0000 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3so81249pzk.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:41:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LAgJ8fUN9H7CAn0idS8eVKkLv4Xw62LS1jSaubu/+PI=; b=gZDqr9Xkc5BfFLoJPgMDPhZEjX/kM3zovQjmT2sZpEyOkyv+3fhZTC9QGqvlGoicl5 59+FWw96K6uHk9/OhvsLGXywwNQKT/3QZfQeJ8nnmc+ZfcZSBJ0frN60qUYgeI2tpNp0 u8j2MeNW0IFqJ8y+yeJwmd0OqEYZmFrz61/tc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=b6zTnaTKp7Jgk2ETbTTkGhArzRtCthp6Peu+ktP7FrWE2wu4cKkQ3m+qFDfT32YMip dK0kj2b3w6w4r9P1g5mUk4LYY2u9PuMpY4CdKHGzWR7PM3G1YV5MAw9VWnB6HL2eiOhh MLSBNxc3S23Qm0iNK4I45cykz9FgPKsE0YrpU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.108.20 with SMTP id k20mr318867rvm.49.1265924485780; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:41:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: d1e8b8455a387eea Message-ID: <1f0624b91002111341q3150fc03x9fcf4d1253278dc9@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m258.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60914b7479e57d4e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Gerhard, Thank you for your report. I am puzzled though, I believe the text should be " CQ G4WGT IO83" as it was in JT4A as I am running the WSPR 2 way mode from WSJT v7 which I am sure you are as well. Just got a call from Jim M0BMU. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 11 February 2010 21:09, Beckmann, Gerhard wrote: > Hello Gary, > > > > please find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR > > > > 2056 -22 0.0 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 > > 2100 -23 0.9 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0 > > 2104 -23 1.1 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 > > > > vy 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI > > > > ==== > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Von:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *Im Auftrag von *Gary - G4WGT > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2010 21:41 > *An:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Betreff:* LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Hi, > > > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > --000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerhard,

Thank you for your report.

I am puzzled though, I believe the text should be " CQ G4WGT= IO83" as it was in JT4A as I am running the WSPR 2 way mode from WSJ= T v7 which I am sure you are as well.

Just got a call from Jim M0BMU.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 11 Fe= bruary 2010 21:09, Beckmann, Gerhard <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de> wrote:

Hello Gary,

=A0

p= lease find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR

= =A0

2056 -22=A0 0.0= =A0=A0 0.503600=A0 0 07/G4WGT 0

2100 -23=A0 0.9= =A0=A0 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0

2104 -23=A0 1.1= =A0=A0 0.503600=A0 0 07/G4WGT 0

=A0

vy 73 de Gerhard= =A0 //=A0 DK6NI

=A0

=3D=3D=3D=3D

=A0

=A0

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11.= Februar 2010 21:41
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz WS= PR

=A0

Hi,

=A0

If there is someone interested out there I am runn= ing WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

=A0

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports &= replies/calls will be welcome.

=A0

73, Gary - G4WGT.


--000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.92]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC064-a9764b8576d659; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:58:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D93183800005F; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkMPq-0006zK-I2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkMPq-0006zB-4H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from mx38.mail.ru ([94.100.176.52]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkMPo-00070M-7y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=39773 helo=EFREMOV) by mx38.mail.ru with asmtp id 1NkMPe-0003Cp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:56:46 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001c01cab583$1c42bf00$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:56:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605c4b8576d32969 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Henny, Yes, it is magnificent! Thanks for info about power, i wished to ask about it... 73 Andrey > Hello Andrey, > > my signal was on your grabber,it was only 25 watt, > > best 73s > henny pa3cpm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF012-8bca4b7490bb2c4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 232C93800014D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiJt-0002va-2I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiJs-0002vR-GU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:36 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiJq-00066w-Na for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:36 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100211231929.YVLA4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:29 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiJk-00040N-O5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:29 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acqrbejcb9/KVEMVTvCjRkGsGlCfRgAAdSFA In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=kUCLGRK_L_DVrsVa0mgA:9 a=79ZThQoLvd4tqltUkzoA:7 a=Z6tVlTSFLfN0g8cKGv03cDPknzMA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=5QliDAteqw15nLks:21 a=tZC2rjCdG0XU_V3b:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=7atzzstXPfW5wG0MDEkA:9 a=ObZbwiZ71nztD7lmgqUA:7 a=JeUhxfUY0p56yIw1gEzQn-pmTZcA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b7490ba4a38 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7= programme and select wspr mode

 

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have= callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click= on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for= each message on TX1 to Tx5

 

If the sending= station is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4th messages= and 73s after each is how I see it.

 

CQ is message= 6

 

A lot quicker= than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,
Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.moritz@btopenworld.com">james.moritz@btopenworl= d.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.219]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b82f0f735e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7EC6C38000388; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfP0-0004dR-Ic for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfOz-0004dI-WF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:14 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjfOw-0005PD-Uw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:13 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2103277bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:01:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=s5w0whq1dGpk0JUp9R8cdYbnib5hCGUiURidueWJRyo=; b=gnf+Z2AnxVhd5iDbeVUpnbkmMMLVn12Fux+eF3jjsZJPIptBTJWzbHJmiCq1wMvSEy 0ILFrDxXdc4YMkP4YldcBmOUzzpuKo1w06wJsA7ACb1OL2CuTDfDCxIs7fAbr8jaeG83 o77WXjNUCKS57pjQ/L1EACdoL2FnhCRpws8i0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=EVY091WIG57wIz/4F3sllioxbqoFQzkSGiDd6QZYy6lt2Xu/kP31BGcY3/GG+e4oSE JtyAbIRLS2BwRpdkN2xE0H+RCfcbchw9+gK4zM+o0lXiC6VOS9E3/lbgEajEM9mv0ZmY MNclcHfmd6A6xgLHlCTE9KKI0OYy3HUJGn8mk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.160.147 with SMTP id n19mr987800bkx.182.1266872464251; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:01:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:04 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221301r13c30262jb244da97d8a19a56@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d299.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60db4b82f0f05a84 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks Andy. So they didn't actually say no, just didn't reply. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 20:45, Andy Talbot wrote: > My thoughts precisely. > > The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in 437 BCE > (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader > > > As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for a NoV for 8.9kHz a few years > ago. mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event', whereas if I'd just > gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged on principle. > > Anyway, Ofcom as was were quite helpful, and even arranged a three way > phone conversation with myself, Ofcom themselves, and a representative of > the percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the > Spherics lightning monitoring people. > > The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead", they'd see if there > would be a problem (I was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure > they would) Ofcom said they'd go away and consult on a form of words for > a NoV and that's where it all stopped. Despite chasing, nothing more was > heard. I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon > construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop. > > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > > > On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath wrote: > >> Hello LFers, >> >> I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. >> As it is very likely that the only listeners >> down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have >> always found that it's better to ask >> for forgiveness than to ask for permission! >> >> 73, J.B., VE3EAR >> >> LowFER Beacon "EAR" >> 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Andy. So they didn't actually say no, just didn't reply.
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February= 2010 20:45, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com> wrote:
My thought= s precisely.
=A0
The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in= 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader
=A0
=A0
As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for 8.9kHz =A0a= few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event',= whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged= on principle.
=A0
Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even arranged a three= way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom themselves,=A0and=A0a repres= entative of the=A0percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenie= nced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people.
=A0
The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead",=A0 th= ey'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never dete= ct a signal; they were sure they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go= away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all= stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 I lost= interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and sto= pped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop.
=A0
On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath= <weazle@hurontel.on.ca> wrote:
Hello LFers,
I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of th= e pond. =A0As it is very likely that the only listeners
down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. =A0I ha= ve always found that it's better to ask
for forgiveness than to ask= for permission!

73, J.B., VE3EAR

LowFER Beacon "EAR&qu= ot;
188.830 kHz. QRSS30










--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC082-862c4b6f2a8b26a; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:03:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7FFC538000133; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEGm-0004gU-L1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEGm-0004gK-6G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEGj-00041I-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2468367pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:02:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=bJnBomaWioFZ7ajf44XJv1NKeh2d89EurFgyy4RJ23E=; b=boKdLuHg8eppmvhXiGpuETapWklJDjFw9A6DECRgovlXAjto1QQyELwv70ox6qD3mZ E9PidgpiD0t2pZMiJXmd+b1QfD4jrc/m7M2Z+zl1z6sj2rSc3xYnrOQ/VHIhW1vxO0bs xaYXTMI2N9xksPoDp6N75zkSXQA9hASZqOMDo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=rGFOZpppo3KhlEdBuw+KVb4dd2nC/JD70oQTH4HxFsKnCOFu3xMPLt52/Hp5tVkUdC 4AHpHd4Dc2m1WuLyIWuWhGquiYXTDN69BwkFQ5TXhzJbg9b7/+MGauN76Z9Lc22qbiZ0 4vKqNXlNAjAUonKYtKC08Wfg+QGCF6ySlILo4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.107.16 with SMTP id j16mr3876685rvm.61.1265576526066; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:02:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:02:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9870a8882786ba46 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071302t560a9703g56a47bed2332ee54@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b6f2a897b57 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard, Thank you for watching & reporting. The broadcast harmonic at 504 is quite strong but not sure how that relate= s to conditions on this band. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:45, Beckmann, Gerhard = wrote: > Good evening Gary, LF > > > > first reception of your CQ-Call this evening at =96 20 dB !!! > > > > 203600 16 -20 -0.4 -48 31 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > > > > Condx seem to be not too good=85. > > However, JT4A is just working !!! > > > > best 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI (JN59LN) > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Von:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *Im Auftrag von *Gary - G4WGT > *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 20:17 > *An:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Betreff:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard,

Thank you for watching & reporting.
<= div>
The broadcast harmonic at 504 is quite strong but not= sure how that relates to conditions on this band.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 7 Februa= ry 2010 20:45, Beckmann, Gerhard <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de>= wrote:

G= ood evening Gary, LF

= =A0

f= irst reception of your CQ-Call this evening at =96 20 dB !!!

= =A0

2= 03600 16=A0 -20 -0.4=A0 -48 31 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1=A0= =A0 0

= =A0

C= ondx seem to be not too good=85.

H= owever, JT4A is just working !!!

= =A0

best 73 de Gerha= rd=A0 //=A0 DK6NI=A0 (JN59LN)

=A0

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von= Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Febru= ar 2010 20:17
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode ton= ight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 50= 3.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB062-a6ff4b708c06246; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:11:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AE8DA38000259; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nebo3-0001qC-C2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nebo2-0001q3-Vj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:10 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nebo0-0004hK-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:10 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so505901qwf.16 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:10:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gcVO4BlTHaC7XzINOIMrWi0CfwGR4Vm9FJS6XW4RTcY=; b=FB7BOPiNdtb7Qy/ysIrOixb4HUqxxLAit/vybB6oNdgyVdw1D9IHpz3sbqTmShmwjH 3ispzQU15E++LUWQDu2oKaedc/6DYIkTg4KqflHG/6v7tz08jvbFRQLV31XNh8eS6hc/ mqvfnKXyt9JaPWGLX4W18NiryGGxxC7IzhWV0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Dda6Ip95MOJ8z5gF/j/zFJUoeWuIVElbkTdsVmNeglZZr/VnrxtdhymOAcOpAf8CV6 TAYym1en3vE5Wnj98TboPJOImBG7sF0m6nYpcmHmToUJxdnnOq5jeGmKgyMpMQNRwMlH TdwdoYzKHdEG+isOL4saLg+m0pX9SU6JekFmY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.1.37 with SMTP id 37mr2717365qad.325.1265667005532; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:10:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:10:05 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002081410n679c8dd1qd6984f629e32dedf@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b708c0408ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Jay, Yes I have been wondering who to ask regarding the surplus Loran equip= ment! Would also be nice to operate 137 from a closed Loran site! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:41 PM, wrote: > Wonder if=A0the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple mat= ter to > trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream... > > Jay W1VD=A0 WD2XNS=A0 WE2XGR/2 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave G3WCB > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM > Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure > Dear LF, > > Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an > announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. > > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ > > LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK=A0 :-( > > 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester > Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > this evening, there were two good traces from=A0Port Clarence here. Both > ended=A0around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting= down > Loran-C. The east coast chains=A0(5930 7270) are still on, probably beca= use of > Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now= as > 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > > =A0:-(( > > 73, Markus > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB054-86994b6e18552ad; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:33:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DF22B38000185; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndw03-00074L-K2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndw03-00074C-9a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from mail15.primus.ca ([216.254.141.182] helo=mail-02.primus.ca) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndw00-0008Cv-La for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from nrtcorback-216-168-101-155.nrtco.net ([216.168.101.155] helo=Bigmachine.magma.ca) by mail-02.primus.ca with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndvzx-0001GV-1z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:31:41 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20100206202901.017fd308@magma.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:31:50 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Bill de Carle In-Reply-To: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> References: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Authenticated: ve2iq - nrtcorback-216-168-101-155.nrtco.net (Bigmachine.magma.ca) [216.168.101.155] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Canada LEGAL on 2200m. Its open season boys! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6e18536f90 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 04:01 PM 2/6/2010, Scott Tilley wrote: >The following comments where provided by VE3IQ from RAC HQ. >[..] >Yes, we can now use 2200 metres. >In December 2009, Industry Canada promulgated the revised Canadian >Table of Frequency Allocations, which embodies the changes resulting >from WRC-2007. It includes the Amateur service as a Secondary >service in the band 135.7 - 137.8 kHz, subject to Footnote 5.67A. >The footnote says: "Stations in the amateur service using >frequencies in the band 135.7-137.8 kHz shall not exceed a maximum >radiated power of 1 W (e.i.r.p.) and shall not cause harmful >interference to stations of the radionavigation service operating in >countries listed in No. 5.67. (WRC-07)". Hey, Woo - Hoo !! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC083-86544b850301118; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:44:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D3424380000AA; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:44:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEhX-0004uh-Gc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEhX-0004uY-4o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEhT-0002jq-1U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYC00804DQOG5@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:42:25 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:42:25 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55444 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b8502fc093f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg)" --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture vx9mrc 507.77khz with a lot of qrm henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture vx9mrc 507.77khz with a lot of qrm
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 24-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg)-- --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABOA0oDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAUABgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH45L0dijoZmL5s6Ec5WrVxxgStpMrk YSiHmJjzkboGC6BEWkwwbJagJY/MV3dqnVnKHFmsebNfFolE1aSyOUIk5zFxdr2+iWWIMYiW LPrcLM8wRl4wgg6FyWDyFpEjqyiZpLhw5gFzrdWSPFQrRo6UEsmZRJlBE9O5HdyF9NmHViTz OaE9SUbRhrW9eaatg7gBZVmWEPr6PpK0nQkoiXIuVzRUzCyNbIp/YfpXzL6TytvV9WD8jFcf 26ZeomyaZ9T0nYLA66PRCoYnUSWy7jrzp7FGitZsxuUu1nY359ui3SMaNlMmRY2pzfnLlp8v 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Y7GgD7lNvcIh7rdxV5S9VL1Jpnc/xMBmnrGYI1piUlAd95uK+00JS+ZtXzCxE4LIVZDrFay5 grBxcKCp2iy8PsiG5OywHymb+5WguLVM3B0NIRkRb1pAcDZpUe1NIpNgMQ08pfqeCULgN6lJ RxB3mEnlSzPXznTDSjGY1fUuNCNVEFwiEGPa4LdLgiUOtsZmdh2itCnpAM3dFS9xkoeoP3LL BQOtPgxm3ruYI9CB8RWoh+H1NFvUvCcBSAey1tcXA0NVLDjEXJDzAUoGYFHepYdjsxVjBvPx AhGmjccE+ZHq221X2sw4DiPcKgehsfcU0Gd94kqttmYJ1gzKAGO9JSDTEuc64QyjDcyjDK+7 POYrWTuytErq/sds6IgioD2R3DnvNk33mkhjFwt0hIjyNsVtFxmCMhXFRAKrhGNsaUYgN04B qJHEt0VaDUgtNc6xFAZFtQK5OWtAtikzjg4xNuqoXrio2b4BS8d1bZ//2Q== --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF073-8bf34b75a8ba244; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:15:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C5723800033B; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xu-0004qh-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xu-0004qY-6v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0xt-0004ZB-Hc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212191403.DFQB4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:03 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100212191403.PBHG13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:03 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B75A86B.19922.686257E@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=cnJuz3YVC3h7er0bLT4A:9 a=GnFCPgQtyAhYMwT95L-GN_mV-wQA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV on 136.319 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4b75a8b62e29 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I will be transmitting overnight tonight on 136.319kHz, QRSS60. Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.15]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC061-a96f4b82c1242f1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:38:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 199D1380000E1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcEA-00039g-GU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcEA-00039X-2y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com ([209.85.221.180]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjcE7-0003hg-Cw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1406369qyk.19 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=H9VteqSUyLFcMcayMtNMYXDZ0nSvoIpRhLbtzlCVE6U=; b=Ajn4yWxgoryils8+SvDbcKh22glYnEWCG28GLw0C1W4ofajTCoLNks2B7JelOxsQw6 70ZcfTtf0WXvOXTCrWqD+ZE3CuHxdBJLegH6fRstzlwq0Oci5FLIyyXy/FRy9yYTKO1D 4FQc2yWMcn9w71vrdMQqgXrwodbgL6/b80Z/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=H43LHnFuuBcEZxp1FD4GiZFZ5ZV1atgiLUNbP1z7pwjYpuSpIJ3/HVdTLFucm5qwk1 5BbXK4DnsqnSmXe7/g3Iw5JsDWvOzFB2SBRUo8zdV9ad2aMS6LHRG8kmtz9baBfUVbQl IQI/YdyCz8z69pGZNwStDgaAPCDBt2C8N4QQM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.89.194 with SMTP id f2mr616757qam.350.1266860258464; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:37:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:37:38 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m224.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400f4b82c12265b9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Roger, I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites into the water. The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 watts! Interesting write up on the web: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with anot= her > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one= - > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response.=A0 If so they= must > all be paranoid. > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scr= ap > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renew= able > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'= m > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA wrote: >> >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remem= ber >> was:- >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be >> issuing any licences for that region. >> >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differe= nt >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >> >> Alan G3NYK >> > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.138]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF023-5ee84b7087813e1; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:52:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 82324380000FD; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebVa-0001hL-Ip for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebVa-0001hC-46 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebVX-0004YW-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so5273294bwz.29 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=WRQ8A346zUVZvZW2RgYhld5GBas1hhKrg/xiBGDgbBE=; b=Iys6UuuTDEd73USi2jyHMHmdvkEl3VO+HHRNVD4r8pdslLcKnRcK/0zC70N7OET6p8 jc81yd7x6xMtvBgOqKq/SWnyPl10u4dcAwI+VLDY5fReWVwFXgWcGz4hKNcQfCUgjD56 KB1DvRww4fcUTIJtXcHl5ICrDK1yfFXuq+AXc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=iVuxmOevm9cL8SmV/Sf8tbbUUC2qQ38m3k9e8mYQlSWryO0uNHSt8wYBBJRNm5HGbk 69/dhbFHvEiw+CO7SzkivSelYuZ3k/5MiBtOgk/bBakUQR1y6KMo74ly7iOSzo4hZbjA b162OSIg9Gh8nM3YbwGKyoHuVIFXKLAO08bcI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.210 with SMTP id m18mr2355037bkd.214.1265665856676; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408a4b70877f3db8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 8 February 2010 21:41, wrote: > Wonder if the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple matter > to trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream... > > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave G3WCB > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM > *Subject:* LF: RE: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an > announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. > > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ > > LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( > > 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]*On Behalf Of *Markus Vester > *Sent:* 08 February 2010 20:40 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* LF: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both > ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting down > Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of > Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as > 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > > :-(( > > 73, Markus > > > --000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The transmitters likely will be.=A0=A0 We did well enough when Decca= closed.
On 8 February 2010 21:41, <= ;jrusgrove@comcast.net> wrote:
Wonder if=A0the loran sights will be= up for sale. Should be a simple matter to trim the loading coil for reson= ance at 137 kHz. One can dream...
=A0
Jay W1VD=A0 WD2XNS=A0 WE2XGR/2=
=A0
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G3WCB
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:3= 2 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure

Dear LF,
=A0
Here's a= link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announcement= of the cessation of US LORAN services.=A0
=A0
=A0
LORAN, OMEGA,= J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK=A0 :-(
=A0
73, Dave G3WC= B IO91RM
-----Orig= inal Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ma= ilto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Veste= r
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject: LF: Loran closure

Dear LF,
=A0
this evening, there were two good tra= ces from=A0Port Clarence here. Both ended=A0around 19:50, so it looks like= the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains=A0(= 5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Carib= ou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with= 5930.
=A0
=A0:-((
=A0
73, Markus
=A0

--000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB021-85ee4b7aed7d60; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:09:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E830B3800036E; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhSmD-00060C-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhSmD-000603-5D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhSm8-0003XR-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Feb 2010 19:07:46 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp038) with SMTP; 16 Feb 2010 20:07:46 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1eJwRSTL1BL77pTbPrR5ScKTN6PjaAeOrhxMKrn Z6EStxqJOXX3xc Message-ID: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:07:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002,0.46999999999999997 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b7aed794d03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) tra= nsfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above desi= gn to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path= from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connected to the= center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax se= ction (1:9 or higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondary is now= here connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in li= near mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on= the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the low pass filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calcula= tions said it needed to=20 be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise known= as a bootstrapped coaxial=20 transformer, but just configured with different reference points to co= nfuse everyone. Your=20 second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answe= r. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of= coax, which are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 imped= ance). Add another turn,=20 so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange= the grounding points and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA ha= s two separate, non=20 magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA pra= ctice, and being so normal=20 in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enabl= es the designer to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced= operation, and even to=20 provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one end to be completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is= permitted with the basic=20 Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 transf= ormation by the same=20 bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as= a twisted pair rather than=20 coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of= HF antenna constructors.=20 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax giving one turn more=20 than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe = wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20W= ideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] namens Andy=20 Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 9/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over the trans= former of=20 Andy's PA and referring to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure= that it=20 is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points which&nb= sp;exclude=20 *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers provide no= dc isolation,=20 i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path=20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid=20 of one coax end is connected to the=20 center
conductor at the sta= rt of the=20 same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1:9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this design.<= STRONG>The=20 center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
 
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough=20 margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA which= was used as=20 industrial RF heater
was designed to be superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 10:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity
=
BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing.  So= rted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio)  = ;just as=20 the calculations said it needed to be, and is indeed, effe= ctively,=20 an auto transformer.  Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial= =20 transformer, but just configured with different reference points&nbs= p;to=20 confuse everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper= , (UKuW=20 see below)  gives the answer.  
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9 Ruthroff &n= bsp; UnUn=20 .   With just two bits of coax, which are then= =20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9=20 impedance).   Add another turn, so three windings are = ;=20 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points= and there,=20 in all its glory, is my mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet= =20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pull HF PA= practice,=20 and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hides = ;a=20 big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just what= ever=20 ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation,= and even to=20 provide DC isolation,   Any conductor passing through the= core=20 allows one end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end= , so=20 that's how balanced operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof de= sign shown=20 in the paper.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving= 1:2=20 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the= transmision=20 line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a= torroid,=20 it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF=20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression that he= lps=20 illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax giving one turn= more than=20 it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis= ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <= Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20 wrote:
Andy,<= /FONT>
 
have a look here :
 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD -= =20 OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
V= erzonden: dinsdag 9=20 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp:= LF: PA=20 matching oddity

 


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10=20 08:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b880bdf3e5; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:58:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D369C380000A2; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl4Re-0007YZ-Ti for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl4Re-0007YQ-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl4Ra-0007g5-Vq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8BEEB7000091 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 7F3197000092 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id BA9827000091 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:31 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226175731764.BA9827000091@mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <536EE8EDA26C4F968F81782282AFB191@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB>, In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b880bd63744 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik ..=20 It may seem odd that 9 Khz causes concern but I think there was= some concern at tx causing problems with a lightning detection sys= tem working round 10 khz ..... substitute 'very bright flash' fo= r 'lightning' and it makes more sense .. but as that's not so high = on the menu these days .. they just use it to check your insura= nce claims for static damage against recorded 'events' close to you= .....=20 G ..=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation belo= w 9kHz? If Ofcom wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they= must have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise= one wouild need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker= via a cable. Unless the the matching is perfect the cable will radiat= e some nannowatts or picowatts. With amateur means (antenna's , power) we won't radiate much more than= a few milliwatts. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' di= scussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has take= n hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will= not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OF= COM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no alloc= ation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be= required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy unde= r the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf= spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from= one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license fr= om the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field= strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, bu= t is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is= not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "bu= t you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate pot= ential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on= 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regula= ted). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rik ..
 
It may seem  odd  that = ; 9 Khz =20 causes concern  but I think there  was some  concern at= tx=20 causing  problems with a  lightning detection system = =20 working  round 10 khz ..... substitute  'very  bright= =20  flash'  for 'lightning' and it makes more sense .. but= as=20 that's  not so high  on the menu these  days  ..= they =20 just use it to  check  your  insurance claims  for= static=20 damage against recorded 'events' close to  you ..... 
 
G ..

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Op= eration=20 below 9kHz?

If Ofcom= wants to (or=20 must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they must have a lower limit= of whant=20 they consider radiation. Otherwise one wouild need a NoV to connect an= audio=20 amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Unless the the matching is per= fect the=20 cable will radiate some nannowatts or picowatts.
With amateur means (antenn= a's , power) we=20 won't radiate much more than a few milliwatts.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T=
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot=20 [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari= 2010=20 15:59
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:= Re: LF:=20 Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?

Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fs= net.co.uk>=20 wrote:
Warren ,

If= you  think this is bad, you=20  should take a  look at the  'ROS' discussion's in th= e yahoo=20   digital data group ..  SS  paranoia has taken hold= !

G=20 ..

--------------------------------------------------
From= : "Warren=20 Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.co= m>
Sent: Thursday,=20 February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject:= =20 Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?=


Asking Ofc= om for a license or Nov to generate a signal=20 that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
   =  =20         WD2XGJ
       =  =20     WD2XSH/23
          &nbs= p;  =20 WE2XEB/2
             =20 WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkows= ki <sq5bpf@lipkowski.= org> wrote:
On Thu,= 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

Pe= ople may be interested in the reply from Rod=20 Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFCOM's= view=20 would be.

[...]
They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there=20 is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. However in th= e UK, a=20 licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency li= mit for=20 wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006.=20 [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of=20 the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into gro= und=20 dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another= . and they=20 do this without any license from the radio
authorities. the= only=20 regulation they need regards maximum field strengths
(and thi= s is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection authority
= and not=20 the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is=20 usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when deali= ng with=20 the goverment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even= if they=20 agree with you there will always be a "but you will
need a li= cense for=20 that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their= duty to=20 regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from ins= talations=20 operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9kHz regio= n, that is=20 not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entirely differ= ent answer=20 :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that= you got=20 from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice





<= /DIV>


------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b830ca868; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:00:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A6FE43800009A; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhG2-0006Ik-Oq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhG2-0006Ib-Bo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhG0-0006Sy-L7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E9751C001 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8BC31E703 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaFAAJ2eR8= Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b830ca6365a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Woul= dn't that be a nice tool to try >what's possible, for a first step? Stefan, I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz= with a bunch of capacitors. One ferrite antenna was used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker= of the main PC in the shack transmitting the WSPR audio signal. The second ferrite antenna served as RX antenna connected to the mic input= of my notebook, acting as receiver in the living room (a surprised look= of the XYL, but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour). Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of 15m. OK, it's just a very loose couple transformer. But it works fine and based= on the signal strength (through a couple of walls) there is more in it th= an 15m. 73, Rik ON7YD --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>But what about that= WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Wouldn't that be a nice= tool to try >what's possible, for a first step?
 
Stefan,
 
I just did a simple test:=
I took 2 old LW ferrite= antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz with a bunch of capacito= rs.
One ferrite antenna was= used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker of the main PC in the sh= ack transmitting the WSPR audio signal.
The second ferrite antenn= a served as RX antenna connected to the mic input of my notebook= , acting as receiver in the living room (a surprised look of the XYL,= but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour).
Solid copy in WSPR, = over a distance of 15m.
OK, it's just a very loos= e couple transformer. But it works fine and based on the signal strength= (through a couple of walls) there is more in it than 15m.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b69cd59343; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 557D3380006AA; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NckoR-0005mw-PY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NckoR-0005mn-DQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NckoP-0002Dg-NP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13JMoDt016720 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:22:51 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:22:52 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:19:24 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqktzXvVw2QscsRSiKOW/wm5IQe+gATpWYI References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.191230 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107" Subject: LF: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b69cd555323 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW on= 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the new qth in Heidelberg= (city) and want to try the performance. It is just 2m up and just 6m besi= de the house but as you know, i am optimistic... tnx es 73! Stefan/DK7FC PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screenshot= s spontan... ;-) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjUTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFwAAAExGOiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3 YW50ZWQA7QcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAAwAUABMAGAADACgBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFAAWADQAAwBH AQEJgAEAIQAAAENCRTlGNzkwMjM3MzgyNDdBNkQ1REY5RkRFNjE2RjU0AFsHAQOQBgDgCwAAOAAA AAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AAeJh8sFpcoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAATEY6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURF O2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwMzE5MjI1MlotMzM1AAAAHgBJAAEAAABE AAAAUmU6IExGOiAybmQgdHJ5IG9mIHNlbmRpbmcgdGhlIHBpYyBvZiBteSBsb29wIHByZWFtcCB3 aXRoIHRoZSBCRjg2MgBAAE4AgJNYdrakygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3Vw QGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25l ci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBi bGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01UUDpPV05FUi1SU0dCX0xGX0dST1VQQEJMQUNL U0hFRVAuT1JHAB4AXQABAAAABAAAAEtlbgACAV4AAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9U AgAAAABLZW4AU01UUABrZW4uaC53cmlnaHRAYnRpbnRlcm5ldC5jb20AAAAAAgFfAAEAAAAhAAAA U01UUDpLRU4uSC5XUklHSFRAQlRJTlRFUk5FVC5DT00AAAAAHgBmAAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAe AGcAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAeAGgAAQAAAAUA AABTTVRQAAAAAB4AaQABAAAAHAAAAGtlbi5oLndyaWdodEBidGludGVybmV0LmNvbQAeAHAAAQAA ABMAAAB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAAIBcQABAAAAGwAAAAHKpLc171cNkLHLEUoijlv8JuSE HvoAE6VmCAAeAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwB AAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAABMAAAB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAAIB CRABAAAAYAMAAFwDAABZBgAATFpGddDyaY4DAAoAcmNwZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMw/wEDAfcKgAKk A+QHEwKAEAP/AFAEVghVB7IRNQ5RAwECAIRjaArAc2V0MgYA2wbDETUzBEYTxzASPBFD2wjvCfc7 GC8OMDURMgxgzmMAUAsJAWQzNhZgC6XkNCAQAipcDrIBkA4QADkgPEhUTUwgEGRpcj0dkHI+fc8d UwAhAzAeoWRvAOAeofkKsVxxGBAeoRPgAzAfBRsWYB0LMxzgHgBFQUQTHtAdDDc3HfBUSVQcTEUi /RzQDvBSZToIIExGJdAybmQg8R6weSBvH2AUICZAC4DCZyZgaGUgcA3gJqJmbSaQF8BvcCeQGDBh Hm0ocAPwJ2AnU0JGOKQ2MiMNODUd8C8kP7sdogrjICuPLJ8OEDYO8IA8TUVUQSBuKMAAZT1HRU5F UkFwVE9SIAWgAjAJ8HQMPSIF4B4TOC4wMGIuHEAwMS4qwA4wOf4iIv0lgSsAIr8lUS3PHaGCNRZg PEJPRFki/dMcUTU/ZzYigVAe2QAAWSEXUGwosBQgLDCBdepsJlBzA3BlAiAngCbivCBhJmAHkAVA AJBnL6B5AyAocxrgIOA68BIwURIuPgApIAuAIFFSgFNTL0RGQ1cmoAEDoDEzNy43PyCwSSBidQMQ BUB1KHAjJ2IA0HRpdieARS3+ZgiQO3EAcDDBL6A8YAVANydiO/AH4HEpIT5RSGUyaQEAbGIEkCdA KGPdKRB5PjAAcCZQd0GhJmBebyZjJ2MEkAIQcgOBYxxlLj+wBUAEACBqdbk8sTJtQDJEYkbTNkcw 70OgAJABACdTaAhgFCA/0QsFQD2xeQhgIGtub3p3OyBpPGBHMChgQNBt+wQAQNBjPgEe9gqiHucK cv8fBwqxTOghjQHAKvE5UTb/hzgPOR9N+HRueCAHkfg3MyFLj0yfTa9Ov0/P11DfUe86ClMwwGYA cD7A/Es3PuBUX1VvVn9Xj1if11mvWr86C1Ml0FQncUFAvxQQQjEHcUpRE/BA8Ukwsf8EoBQwQhJI 8GZxRGI7oEpR/mMDkUXRRKALICbQBQAJ4cpzSPB0BCBzcAIhAHDhPgEgOy0pXU9eX19v82B/Iv01 OCrxNp8lUSQBFzPAHiEe0H1ygB4ANRABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFE MEREODVFODJBMUFEREBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQu ZGU+AAAeADkQAQAAAFQBAAA8MTIwNzc4MjEuMTI2NDk0NjI2MTQ4Ny5KYXZhTWFpbC5yb290QHdh bXVpLWN5bmljYWwuYXRsLnNhLmVhcnRobGluay5uZXQ+IDwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1 MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUFDRkBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3Rh ZHQuZGU+IDw0QzI1RDUxQTZGRTY0NkQ1QjhEOUQzN0M4N0VBNkJCQ0BsaW5kYXZpZGVvPiA8MzhB NTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRDRARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5l LXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPiA8MEExQ0MyQzUzNjcwNDBFMjg0RDMwRjg3QTQ5Njc1 NDdAbGluZGF2aWRlbz4AHgBHEAEAAAAPAAAAbWVzc2FnZS9yZmM4MjIAAAsA8hABAAAAHwDzEAEA AAA6AAAATABGACUAMwBBACAAdABlAHMAdAAgAHMAaQBnAG4AYQBsACAAdwBhAG4AdABlAGQALgBF AE0ATAAAAAAACwD2EAAAAABAAAcwB4mHywWlygFAAAgwybyNRwalygEDAN4/r28AAAMA8T8HBAAA HgD4PwEAAAAPAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAAAIB+T8BAAAAXAAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAAr L+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1IU1QvT1U9RVJTVEUgQURNSU5JU1RSQVRJVkUgR1JVUFBFL0NOPVJFQ0lQ SUVOVFMvQ049U0NIQUVGRVIAHgD6PwEAAAAVAAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7 PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAA AwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJ AAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAAcAAAAa2VuLmgud3JpZ2h0QGJ0aW50ZXJuZXQuY29tAB4AOEABAAAACQAA AFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AOUABAAAAAgAAAC4AAAADAHZA/////wsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAAAAADAAYQ hDV0rwMABxArAQAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFBMRUFTRSxDT1VMRFNPTUVP TkVTRU5EQVRFU1RTSUdOQUwoU1VDSEFTQ1EpSU5RUlNTL0RGQ1dPTjEzNzc/SUJVSUxUVVBUSEVB Q1RJVkVFLUZJRUxEQU5URU5OQUFUVEhFTkUAAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3 NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQUREQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1 LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAD0d ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.95]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b68340b1ed; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:17:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1E0933800013A; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcJXz-0005rg-OS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcJXz-0005rX-9g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f200.google.com ([209.85.221.200]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcJXx-0007n1-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38so41756qyk.1 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:15:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GEMt0wAKnThD7ui3kz6AmuYU3NZBfASNsZ0IKSMECEs=; b=t+nu8vVAgEYC7L5W7DmsZJGn5iQM/Mwn8BE1UUD6Ht0l5meIa/1nLtls+7WfWg/IKx xnjPuqS0ojbydFO52bemik8nKFaRTqMCK/g0bXqPKw5nc2kuS3SkCoqYbcT+YLyc0tbB fYY27eCcWW+BoFI6lq7glwD2Elle8dIr2g490= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=fzxf7ORNkcR2HRfaSwHHtBKlxUbLVAmtdxbEU7DS1Z24QPtC7Q0AkQRW+disUdMYFP wwwJUryFJurFPtjGa0D/lMPrWenhgD4HHUtc9KcV1Htz+LBJqmfeQuvrAb939k0ggpay kXUzM0ex9hWIoPo+vKJZhG/sVqFVuCqXN+EQ8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.72.162 with SMTP id m34mr2854282qaj.0.1265120157584; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:15:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:15:57 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002020615k7c6fde3ap5230adb3c9253830@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: XGJ 02-02.jpg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605f4b68340726ba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Henny, Excellent capture, thank you! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2010/2/2 henny van elst : > Hi Warren,LF > Capture XGJ,strong signal, > best 73s > henny cpm. > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden > verzonden: > XGJ 02-02.jpg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB034-a21f4b701a191a9; 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08 Feb 2010 14:03:24 +0000 Message-ID: <163B1F4EEB2C4C359B44DB65B592EBDA@TraceyPC> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:03:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: Solar Flares Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b701a1632f7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I have also noticed a major change on the the Sheffield University VLF monitor http://togashef.sheffield.ac.uk/~sferix/vlf.png 73s Tracey G5VU ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: LF: Solar Flares Dear LF, the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today) are very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also a visible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz. 73 de Markus, DF6NM http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b8331d3322; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:39:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A0182380000B0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njjiu-0007B2-L2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njjit-0007At-Br for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:03 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com ([209.85.221.180]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njjip-0007Js-SD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:03 +0000 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1681112qyk.19 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=7uq65ZkVqGObDNy+sEAKBsT2Tm4zrB43U8wwyGGNa5g=; b=on83m2gHWVsOoCIeYkaHmnYXax6U5eFWRMwLaTgCDTiMyFkFDWbB4g8kpHfEEmb58i 7cGQKy+zgFhGtZ3c8DResSbEiuvMWZYHtSKvSywUEXs2DfvBsMKO6Js4h+Yow6bw9crl 2NziESS/u7nCzd8rRZaGFRb+JJ2wG/+PFhfYY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=WyvI9XzfeLITp/rAUGoTaZWTuLO1ZbqlXb0gL5NZzZ7Cz5HevO5UmesfGrng+uCJMe Z3imnFRuosH9u9upmWnWnvF+RdnNAMzbiMfKZHn1wnfQDykZiUqbozllIk7XhweHD1CU s0qyAPZMTLjS4xJv0ybI5NBuP3uXE1H3VWU5g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.13.144 with SMTP id c16mr3448346qaa.85.1266889067553; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:47 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002221737t57dfcd1bn51a188b5c004104d@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Broadband over Sewer was (Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m253.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b8331d176d5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, >werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ? That was a Dilbert comic Broadband Over Sewer Lines a parody on BPL. http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-09-08/ --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 6:31 PM, wrote: > werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ? > the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter > of the Pipe ?? I kinda remember something about that some years ago > > Bob K3DJC > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe < > Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> writes: > > Pete, > > what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? > It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at= the > same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to= a > more convenient value. > Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power sho= uld > be more modest than 780 Watt. > A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cabl= e > that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. > > 73, Rik > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > *Verzonden:* maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 > > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Yep Rik > > So how do I load it? > > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would > act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting. > > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts= of > audio to try out. > > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB > designs in the LF Handbook. > > I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is > a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am loo= king > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-wi= se. > > If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF station= s > who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possi= bly > G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away. > > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of= a > wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. > > So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe * wrote: > > > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 > > Pete, > > 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > *Verzonden:* maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Hi Group > > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 > kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 14= 00 > turns, > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolt= s. > Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > > > > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn * wrote: > > > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. > > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > > > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rememb= er > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differ= ent > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > >> ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna". There are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > > >> > >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> 73s > >> Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > > > >> > >> Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > >> would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like > >> bandwith or power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Nutrition > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 --00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob,
>werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?

=A0=A0That was a Dilbert comic Broadband Over Sewe= r Lines a parody on BPL.
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-09-08/
--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0<= br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1

=



On Mon, Feb= 22, 2010 at 6:31 PM, <riese-k3djc@juno.com> wrote:
werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?
the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter<= /div>
of the Pipe=A0 ?? I kinda remember something about that some years=20 ago
=A0
Bob K3DJC
=A0
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be= >=20 writes:
Pete= ,
=A0
what about putting a= large (1..10nF) cap=20 from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the re= quired inductance=20 with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss=20 resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap need= s to handle the=20 high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780=20 Watt.
A ready available sour= ce of HV caps is=20 RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101= pF/m you=20 would 10 to 100m cable.
=A0
73, Rik
=A0
Van: owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.u= k]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 23:43

Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
Onderwerp: RE: LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz

Yep Rik
=A0
So how do=A0I load it?
=A0
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil= so it=20 would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out bef= ore=20 melting.
=A0
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about= 100=20 Watts of audio to try out.
=A0
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of= the=20 RSGB designs in the LF Handbook.
=A0
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible.....= ..=20 there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on this reflector=A0about=20 this subject but=A0I am looking for a practical method of loading= a=20 wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise.=A0

If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels=20 above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX= =20 test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or=20 M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.
=A0
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule= =20 fraction of a wave length,=A0in the conventional way is not the=20 answer.
=A0
So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)......=20 anyone??=A0
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe= =20 <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
From:=20 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE: LF:= =20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 February,= =20 2010, 21:24

=20
Pete,
=A0
2.5km Cu wire= of 0.2mm has a=20 resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the= coil doen't get=20 hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.<= /div>
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7= YD -=20 OR7T
=A0
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@ya= hoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:=20 RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
=A0
Using software to calculate what I would need to load= my=20 inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800= Watt audio=20 amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air= cored=20 former is 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driv= en by=20 about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be getting prett= y=20 hot!!!!! Probably red hot.
Any suggestions??
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon,= =20 22/2/10, James Cowburn=20 <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From:=20 James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE:= =20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date= :=20 Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All= we need is a wire strung between K2=20 and Everest summits and fed from
base camp=20 below?



-----Original Message-----
From= : owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On=20 Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010=20 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US= below=20 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radi= ate a=20 signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren= =20 K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1



On Mon,=20 Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>=20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= =20 probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he di= d=20 approach the regulator at one time
maybe around 2001/= 2 when=20 Geri was doing his tests the answer as I=20 remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are no= t=20 allocated by International Treaty but we
control all= =20 frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will no= t=20 be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
&= gt; I=20 believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things= may be=20 different
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know wh= ether=20 an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould= G4WKL=20 who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>
> Alan= =20 G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10,=20 Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni= -heidelberg.de>=20 wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iu= p.uni-heidelberg.de>
>>=20 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,=20 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>>= ; And=20 do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries=20 in
>> europe as
>> well? What about th= e=20 UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If= such a=20 grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>= ;>=20 a big
>> antenna without the problems we have= on LF=20 (getting the
>> wire high above
>> gro= und).=20 So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>&= gt;=20 you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is= =20 clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB.=20 But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about bu= ilding=20 an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x= 20m,=20 is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m= in=20 a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (w= hich=20 will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i th= ink)=20 mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> cou= ld=20 be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no= earth=20 radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on= some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed= =20 point,
>> that would be a first=20 step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be= bad=20 but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
&g= t;>=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance=20 and
>> make some
>> contacts at very= low=20 frequencies, although it would be much
>> easie= r=20 on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so,= if=20 one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>&g= t;=20 the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't= it?=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has= =20 anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as=20 well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wi= th the=20 ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>= >=20 expect. But
>> that are=20 dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>>= ;=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;=20 Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger=20 Lapthorn:
>>
>> =A0 At this frequency,= =20 widely spaced,=A0grounded
>> electrode pairs=20 are
>> probably the best "antenna".= =A0 There=20 are
>> references to how these work in
>&= gt;=20 the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from=20 the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the inte= rnet I=20 believe) and on one of the
>> German ham=20 sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www= .qru.de/#vlf=A0.

>>
>>=20 =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a=20 fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal=20 processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur
>&= gt;=20 levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine ac= hieved=20 worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>&= gt;=20 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and=20 antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of= =20 kms.
>>
>> =A0 73s
>> =A0=20 Roger=20 G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>=20 =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de= >
>>
>>=20 =A0 Hello=20 Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>>= That=20 sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find=20 some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near= field=20 (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> fie= ld=20 to
>>=20 test.
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>&= gt;=20 configurations for that
>> range and got the id= ea=20 that one could use a forrest as an
>>=20 antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s= =20 meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>>= =20 parallel. You do not need to have that area beside=20 your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the= wire=20 and nobody will care about it.
>>
>>= Since=20 summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna=20 mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill= with=20 excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also= =20 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to= 12m=20 above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from=20 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>>= =20 tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem bu= t with=20 bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But= if one=20 would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would= =20 be
>>=20 interesting...
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>=20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far=20 i
>> think=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What= is=20 your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>= ;>=20 commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are= there=20 some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73= ,=20 Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>>= PS: One=20 can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&g= t;>=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 ________________________________
>>
>>=
>>
>>=20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 im Auftrag von Horst=20 St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet:= Mo=20 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
>>
>>
>>=20 Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in=20 QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
= >>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>= ;>=20 there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= =20 in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is=20 free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I= could=20 not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
&g= t;>=20 while I got
>> a letter which confirmed=20 that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So= there=20 nothing you've got to do for getting a
>>= licence.=20 You do not
>> need=20 one.
>>
>>
>>
>> The= re is=20 no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= =20 bandwith or=20 power.
>>
>>
>>
>>= Hard to=20 believe in german, but obviously=20 true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My= QTH=20 is Siegburg=20 JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>>= =20 Horst
>>
>>=20 ________________________________________________________= ___
>>
>>=20 NEU: Mit WEB= .DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF=20 sparen!
>>
>> =A0 =A0 http://produk= te.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >=20 --
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0= http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>=20 =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>=20 =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>= >
>>=20 G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0=20 =A0ISWL
>>=20 G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>=20 --
>> ----------------------------
>>= =20 Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr= =20 Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>>=20 Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>&g= t;=20 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelbe= rg.de
>>=20 Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)62= 21=20 546405
>>
>>=20 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>>
>




=A0


________________________= ____________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career heal= th. Click now to study nutrition!



--
73 Warren K2ORS
= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1


--00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.22]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b892dae253; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:35:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C2EC38000105; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNjw-0000Sg-RG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNjw-0000SX-6d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNjt-0005EA-Nl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1REXqw8023257 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Thread-Index: Acq3qZki4lwd2wTcQI+vE3Ko7IBmlgADbVPD References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.142423 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B9.E1EEEBE3" Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55582 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41164b892dac4ff6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B9.E1EEEBE3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/fo= recast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a strenght of= 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tests. Tha= t is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 100mH but= It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV= rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire. There are severa= l possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage, well known and ap= plied in the high voltage power fields but this may be very difficult at= a kite antenna. So i will start with a first test at only 20kV, if the PA= will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and there= are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the chance to= resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the livi= ng room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the= first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lowe= r voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output,= loosely coupled by another air coil (in this way i will be able to make= a transformation of the resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kH= z are well audible so i am excited how the antenna and coil will sound whe= n some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try to bu= ilt it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend some time= with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/DF6NM to= give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town= ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure=20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed specially for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite antenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical, does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT voltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B9.E1EEEBE3 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjUOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEANQAAAFZMRiBUWCBleHBlcmltZW50 cyB0aGlzIHN1bmRheSBiZWNvbWVzIG1vcmUgcHJvYmFibHkAYBMBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGwAPACEA NAAGAGgBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABsADwAhADQABgBoAQEJgAEAIQAAAEVFMUY4MzVBRTdDQjcyNDFC QkFFRjc3NEM2RTAwQzEzAGgHAQOQBgCkGgAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOPr7uG5t8oBHgA9AAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSC0xMDAy MjcxNDMzNTJaLTEyMDkAAAAeAEkAAQAAAEUAAABSRTogTEY6IEZ3ZDogU3BlY2lhbCBQZXJtaXRz IGZvciBBbWF0ZXVyIFJhZGlvIE9wZXJhdGlvbiBiZWxvdyA5a0h6PwAAAABAAE4AAJbGOuS3ygEe AFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMA AAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu b3JnAFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAA 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omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dPPZ1d0022DDHkk3bPPZTi; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:23:34 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:22:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b695ccc02fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Jim Have been looking for your WSPR signal whenever you're active. The lowest ERP from EU received here so far was +20 dBm from G0NBD...about a dozen spots over several nights. Distance was 5198 km. The spots were in the -22 to -25 SNR range so reception of a station that is 6 dB below G0NBD should be possible. Please transmit whenever you can - there are at least several stations on this side of the pond that routinely keep an eye on 502.4 kHz. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cowburn" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:17 AM Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Rik/LF > > That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can > work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I > switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at > 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and > others in D/F. > > Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into > antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a > silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be > suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a > bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better > support away from trees! > > Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the > local ground wave signals collapse > > Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more > so than the output at the tx end > > My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a > quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right > condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to > 2000km or so. > > If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz > enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO > squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we > can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub > > Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe > Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz > > In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. > As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some > antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). > Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about > 20mW. > At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a > carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it > run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". > To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with > him, receiving a 559 report. > Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. > Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and > 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b87e9f02ad; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCDE838000117; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BT-0006Gh-Cz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BS-0006GY-Qy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl2BQ-0006bT-6P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD2651C00B for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F759F3863 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Thread-Index: Acq29RSPbJohoLCLRqeAbxsDFY2+twAAvco9 Message-ID: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4b87e9ea6a3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Ofcom wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they must= have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise one wouild= need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Un= less the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate some nannowatts or= picowatts. With amateur means (antenna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a= few milliwatts. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham > wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' discussi= on's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If Ofc= om wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz= they must have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise= one wouild need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Unless the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate so= me nannowatts or picowatts.
With amateur means (ante= nna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a few milliwatts.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@= googlemail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz?

Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.u= k> wrote:
Warren ,

If you  think this is bad, you  should take a  look at the=  'ROS' discussion's in the yahoo   digital data group ..  = SS  paranoia has taken hold !

G ..

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" <w= d2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
              WD2XGJ
              WD2XSH/23
              WE2XEB/2
              WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received=
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as=
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths=
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<= br> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask=
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you= will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<= br> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br> would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice






--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.81]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b6e9d7db0; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:01:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D1CF23800029B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:01:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4sM-0001tq-1d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4sL-0001th-MC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:25 +0000 Received: from mailout.toya.net.pl ([217.113.224.27] ident=postfix) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4sJ-0008QN-C3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:25 +0000 Received: from mail.toya.net.pl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D65D2000005E for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [10.3.148.9]) (Authenticated sender: unimlyn) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B5DC20000052 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:00:21 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgTcWCeW5hcnNraQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: In-Reply-To: X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000304000108080301000003" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b6e9d7b4673 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------000304000108080301000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit victor13@online.nl wrote: > Hello Stefan, > > I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for > blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. Hi Victor, please, send it also to me ... 73, Piotr, sq7mpj qth: Lodz /jo91rs/ --------------000304000108080301000003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable v= ictor13@online.nl wrote:
Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted
Hello Stefan,
=C2=A0
I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors.
Hi Victor, please,=C2=A0 send it also to=C2=A0 me ...

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 73, Pio= tr,=C2=A0 sq7mpj

qth: Lodz /jo91rs/

 --------------000304000108080301000003-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.12]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA041-85e64b82e426cb; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 78955380001E7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeYe-0004Gk-40 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeYd-0004Gb-OL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:07 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeYa-00052r-8z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:07 +0000 Received: (qmail 5858 invoked by uid 507); 22 Feb 2010 21:06:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 21:06:41 +0100 Message-ID: <201002222106550093.028E1B99@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:06:55 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4b82e42429d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 The 2.5km was on 87 SSB. On 27 we used NBFM (much shorter range). John F5VLF *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/02/2010 at 19:54 Roger Lapthorn wrote: >Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in >USB >bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that >considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse >cube >attenuation rate. > >I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode >communications? > >73s >Roger G3XBM > >On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > >> If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well= as >73 >> and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information.= =20 >An >> article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of >the >> AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online fo= r >> G0AKN. >> >> Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometime= s >> used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved >with a >> 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. >> >> 73 >> John Rabson >> F5VLF >> 58800 Cervon >> France >> JN17vg >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >--=20 > >http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.75]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b771ccbee; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:42:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8CE7F3800018F; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:42:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgPje-0007Cy-As for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgPjd-0007Cp-Oz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:05 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgPja-0002yN-Q9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:05 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so2199230pzk.30 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:40:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=CdSo8cf4wwXR9M9ACB1rObDNjwwhGXM+2ky70cNjXOI=; b=dP0Wa17b6LIMnd6zr+9CCxqn/XWOai/EUX9roupAeeBhD0YNm2756BC+tgirAKgaK7 usX1pKZYkJBOHkTdjAkvxeRgzXCvJ5v/KEm1sqJMoYssglryiluRNQKq56DpJdHv+/NL C4TEEpW6g9/9JU2S62ccS06ffOLMo479JV0vw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=qiZ3Ze7l6AQ3y/IOnf3PYBZfVlB58Lp00Ln5o3ECtaCUH75KUPqA5F8GHXdoGxItHv 2jR3c+u+eqiYv7EwaArhe3UBNfssoIIadZic8BqWiSUCbf5Bg5ar/REcQcJU1OiISMnn otZ4VZOODoos1+H1DcwaeTiHfRZ5/EGW40HT0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.5 with SMTP id d5mr1755389rva.243.1266097254877; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:40:54 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8836ad0f1e93c561 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002131340q52179e8bvd0396d88dc583910@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d274.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4b771cc90de7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Roger, Thanks for the report. No problem, take your time & work it out first. I don't know whether you read my previous mails to Jim G7NKS, but I suggested a good read is the "Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" & can be seen at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm The fact is that the procedures for JT65A, WSPR QSO mode & JT4A are all very very similar & the instructions for JT65A work just the same with the others. So the guide is very useful. There is also a good "help" from the top menu in the WSJT 7 screen/display showing lots of info, keyboard short cuts & procedures. OK, Roger, I hope we can have a crack at the 2 way modes very soon. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 13 February 2010 21:03, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until I've > understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with > this software on any mode yet. > > 205600 12 -12 -0.4 -7 0 CQ *G4WGT* IO83 > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT wrote: > >> Hi LF, >> >> Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, >> 503.600 kHz signal frequency. >> >> Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roger,

Thanks for the report.

No problem, take your time & work it out first.

I don't know whether you read my previous mails to Jim G7NKS, bu= t I suggested a good read is the "Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A= by Andy K3UK" & can be seen at :-


The fact= is that the procedures for JT65A, WSPR QSO mode & JT4A are all very= very similar & the instructions for JT65A work just the same with the= others. So the guide is very useful. There is also a good "help"= ; from the top menu in the WSJT 7 screen/display showing lots of info, key= board short cuts & procedures.

OK, Roger, I hope we can have a crack at the 2 way mod= es very soon.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 13 February 2010 21:03, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn= @gmail.com> wrote:
Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm= not ready to try a QSO yet until I've understood and sorted out the= procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with this software on any mode= yet.

205600=A0 12 -12 -0.4=A0=A0=A0 -7=A0 0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscal= i.co.uk> wrote:
Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.1= 00 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

--001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.74]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b67162a1f7; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:58:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D7013800019D; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc0W7-0002Ty-Lv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc0W7-0002Tp-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from n16.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc0W6-0000Wd-SL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from [68.142.194.244] by n16.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 Received: from [68.142.201.243] by t2.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp404.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 187618.98794.bm@omp404.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 32719 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2010 17:56:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=19Re6eXV+QufYZIfJ2gbpxhXx6bGbJkEX/nd16tXgKXbiou+12dQ3xZc0J2ukl91eoESsJ3lJwczTInFVvnHRBbVC3rZmPo8fpx1QK5gAICIxdTat9IZ6+PHofz+0VG1xEpA7xXXtSZGHE3MidkLgwv+rTSL8Dx/OsIhIN8i7sw= ; Received: from host86-142-159-60.range86-142.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.142.159.60 with login) by smtp141.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 09:56:47 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: SeaDta8VM1k5BBEGdk1lmW6zdEEn2s6zUvyc6A3G6P37Bl1Uz4egpJKu1W4L.sR9_v9enDwuk5vNROIt.I569_5hkX9nMooqTNPDjlYpubeHpmVPZK2jKtZOLF9NWW5xN7PrQVVkOD2uRlJJm2Fq.dpb9b6heCcYqINszbs.mfIF_HJvuH4EU.Nmah6xNjQykSXZ5ntDAmWj2tcAZm66MdannuN9PVOsXM.Na5RV4pjcyrxLT.LStiCNSFU.KejJyZGePCJ8xZlvnOugcU75h8YQKYNW13x.yN9zhyMJ15wD6CRlUFdhpDCTblhLbHjmm.33XOx7qTsKesLiUynIJC2.N.fO3._V_CYA0byroqpRG518oVfZQyDKwS0S_05ObFTBCFsARqsl4zAN6fdWowpYPC.Eil_jhK8HqmFe749N7xra3Pvc6ok- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> From: "Ken" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:56:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604a4b6716275729 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm= =20 multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at= 1300nm=20 or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What opt= ical=20 wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If yo= u are=20 using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be= high,=20 the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the= fibre,=20 ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibr= e may=20 be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduc= e=20 attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode.= In the=20 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning= optical=20 line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-)= ), so=20 rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than=20 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for= =20 indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DC= F39 in=20 the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But= =20 recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less no= ise.=20 So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise,= =20 probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the= RX.=20 The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already order= ed=20 some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s= of=20 years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no pr= oblem=20 for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier= within=20 the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but=20 this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sens= itive=20 RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to= worry=20 any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/ho= use to=20 the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the=20 RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, incl= uding=20 the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF074-8bf44b82a3431b0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:31:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9726B3800014A; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaE4-0001PT-PL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaE4-0001PK-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaE1-0002Q9-P9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1760835bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:29:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7UAbn2t3c8D0mAe1IT/PA/e5ozXkvWCvN2m/gVOVghI=; b=n8odVLL/dJs6RSBBDmYR/mmuK4ruIGLIxZKnK9myVxEiBJQj1JpgcS+wfJfZWhUMgc GTdsJvBpZc4a3fwr5fTqnhK9eayHh4D0NKg/wJm/nveeGuMyUxD74Y5ea7CrQXC8eT6H /XKlAEFHUPX5LdkWBwh8/7WQevB6TsoIFUdBI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=tt/Dp1+Aoo2LEsKiSRRe2eRM9uKwUX6LRxF9qBPgi2DwjYeF9QjZSE6C3zigPmGi3k QmJ4hDmsm2arY2dtq/eVRdU2Ch0aipXbqzkzyxP23UmrRVG2MBK+PIbXgBSSClUCLBsb Hpp9A083j2F4DFoV7zMxE4AE0qUgbK3eCXjEM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.152 with SMTP id g24mr3110606bkw.205.1266852567115; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:29:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d275.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b82a34118cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rick, Horst, et al, I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode" experiments between 0 and 50kHz. If you ask OFCOM I suspect they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI. It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induction loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe wrote: > > And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? > What about the UK? > > > Stefan, > > in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rick, Horst,=A0et al,
=A0
I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operati= on below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was= required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mod= e" experiments between 0 and 50kHz.=A0 If=A0you ask=A0OFCOM I suspect= they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI.
=A0
It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could comm= unicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in= weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large inductio= n loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being= exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing wil= l be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or= by induction.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM
=A0


=A0
On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@f= ys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for oth= er countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is &qu= ot;free"

73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T




--

http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://w= ww.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/= G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.222]) by air-dd04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD043-865a4b80717c396; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B94D13800059D; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiyoJ-0003aa-0T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiyoI-0003aR-Bd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:30 +0000 Received: from web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiyoG-00028L-6a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:30 +0000 Received: (qmail 34265 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Feb 2010 23:32:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266708742; bh=mkHF6dDdawJu/rtYHo9vvd5bWFlYn0+k2zc8Pus+XOY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gVYmevO5UPEtwJg77hgwnC0moSxyp5A/ERJMz/IgLsPRHKX8kPUjBRjd/euBHBzUOomhW34P/Csk/2d7XggreZaXuwYeaahHrY0YFX9KN2Xk0cA34JQtvPGZW4TmYvcIJ9KQTG5LmQkcs7CwDKmAdtONyMRaUHJw3//XBxIZxf8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=el6ld/h+HvEzntFgt6HbuY6xGiKJu90Ntt1q1n/SOtrdtRYPHe9757aUuAqi7d9EOu01rJVXY2CRPlGmKGAWlQAhLE99lbkOuHHqE//++e1CRWXPfyyZD9fzhHrBq0A1Sh0NVPBvP0Sx5NU0x52gVliXv0hJHvwyX8zgThRfvus=; Message-ID: <85763.34251.qm@web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ar.OSToVM1nBDGbhbHxoYQI.RJ6AdQyeyBQ8W_0CuCxGFNMrg2nnUGGNvESnGy_ih6y.Rqcu1YYCfXUKSnoHiHS8RF09M26xpwax1gXgLm.kni4Q.bv86vKPN1fC6OIP21AVTPnfLKBLlKa9WISXNeUgz6bSOGqB9ecZpFIXiMvO9jdrDldcLRWJtjybqQ09TSlLgY8AUkjIZnm5L3WrbLaYo5c58atz92Bn4ycxeIOcuzMj_2iss3E7kF4fmXV3Pd9gHSG_1BgsmnlRo99TE5oQIY0TQwhMr_I- Received: from [213.122.11.230] by web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:21 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:21 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d309.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60de4b80717a68cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Horst dont forget you are in the near field at that frequency and the= signal strength drops of as the third or fourth power of the distance (no= t the square) until you are about 15km away from the transmitter then you= enter the far field and get square-law effect. You need to factor that in= to your equations. This means at 1km the strength will be either 30 or 40d= B lower not just 20dB (I think) at 10km 60 to 80dB lower. You are really= in "induction" fields at the moment, I think. Interesting tests. Make a bridge and measure the antenna at the at frequen= cy, the majority of the resistive component will be ground loss. Tune out= the reactive part with inductance and use a transformer to get the highes= t antenna current. A "ground dipole" could well be better than an elevated= small T. Interesting reference "ELF Communications antennas" Michael L Burrows, pub by Peter Perigrinus= for the IEE 1978 ISBN 0 906048 00 1 Alan G3NYK =20 --- On Sat, 20/2/10, Horst St=F6cker wrote: > From: Horst St=F6cker > Subject: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Saturday, 20 February, 2010, 16:39 > Hello, >=20 > some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio > below 9 kHz were issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency > range is free as the Bundesnetzagentur has confirmed last > year. >=20 > Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator > actually at 8,79 kHz. PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier > with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4 Ohm into a 100V ELA > transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m top > capacity and poor ground. >=20 > Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years > before (AATIS). Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly > influenced by trees and houses. >=20 > The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to > 100m in an city environment with a highly unmatched antenna > makes me believe, that in a better environment and with a > matched antenne and with help of ARGO one can make tests > over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city the > ODX ;-)) surely can be improved. >=20 > The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - > or using ground antennas vor TX, RX or both. >=20 > vy73 Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.16]) by air-dc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC071-86034b8452073e7; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C094438000081; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:08:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2vN-0003mp-7H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2vM-0003mg-Rv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:12 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.34.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vL-0007Sd-Es for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:12 +0000 Received: from [212.54.34.144] (helo=smtp13.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vK-0007Zn-Jc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:10 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=P43000) by smtp13.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vK-0007jt-5U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:10 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000001cab4d4$aeecee70$0cc6cb50$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq01K5gUaeRAsuDRGaC27nydmsgeA== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Nk2vK-0007jt-5U X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-4.397, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, UPPERCASE_50_75 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b8451fb0b97 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PA3EGO Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS, PA0A Heard by: 2M0AZW, DK6NI, G0NNF, G3VYZ, G3XBM, G6AVK, G7NKS, GM4ISM, LA3EQ, LA6TPA, LB9YE, M0LMH, PA0A, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV, PC4T 73s pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= PA3EGO
Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS, PA0A
Heard by: 2M0AZW, DK6NI, G0NNF, G3VYZ, G3XBM, G6AVK, G7NKS, GM4ISM, LA= 3EQ, LA6TPA, LB9YE, M0LMH, PA0A, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV, PC4T

73s pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b89911b2; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:39:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5846B38000092; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUMN-0003Z1-UV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUMN-0003Ys-Fc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from mailout08.t-online.de ([194.25.134.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlUMK-0006v2-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from fwd10.aul.t-online.de (fwd10.aul.t-online.de ) by mailout08.t-online.de with smtp id 1NlUMF-0005Ae-KJ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:55 +0100 Received: from e7010 (ZYyiKiZr8hFhpdATSgH+8t1wn0tEdwOfYw8mu-BbMaxqhqrMcJD-Wx46-+cm22-QfK@[84.147.213.71]) by fwd10.aul.t-online.de with smtp id 1NlUMB-0FEq2q0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01cab7f5$1e0253e0$6402a8c0@e7010> From: "Walter und Marianne Staubach" To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-ID: ZYyiKiZr8hFhpdATSgH+8t1wn0tEdwOfYw8mu-BbMaxqhqrMcJD-Wx46-+cm22-QfK X-TOI-MSGID: e18f4d4d-1dfe-42d7-9fb5-1bb354e3af11 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Condx Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b89911a4650 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo MF, strong copy of EI0CF and SM6BHZ in JN59NO at this time. 73 Walter DI2AG / DJ2LF ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hallo MF,
      =   strong copy of EI0CF and=20 SM6BHZ in JN59NO at this time.
73   Walter DI2AG / DJ2LF
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b71d00975; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:13:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F180380002EA; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NexMn-000556-31 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NexMm-00054x-PF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:28 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NexMl-0004az-D0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:28 +0000 Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100209211120.GBPQ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:11:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100209211120.MBSN13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:11:20 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=0-Zitf4ukgJ9-ASlkmUA:9 a=CN_pBJcMc-_gnKLUFcieiLj1iQEA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV on 136.319 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b71d006390b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I will be transmitting 'XDV' in QRSS60 overnight on 136.319kHz. Mike. G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.14]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b82e72230; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:20:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6A1583800004C; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njeku-0004OD-9e for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njekt-0004O4-Q4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:47 +0000 Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca ([216.46.129.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njekq-00059B-PM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:47 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (pppoe.dyn-216.46.157.76.hurontel.on.ca [216.46.157.76]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFF9603D for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:39 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: John Bruce McCreath In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b82e7206509 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello LFers, I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond.= As it is very likely that the only listeners down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have= always found that it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission!=20 73, J.B., VE3EAR LowFER Beacon "EAR" 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA074-86674b6f28b264; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:55:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03B2D3800012B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE97-0004Ub-3r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE96-0004US-Ns for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:20 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE95-0003vQ-0F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:20 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207205413.ISRK4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:54:13 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE8z-00040H-8K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:13 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:54:11 -0000 Message-ID: <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoNTUJ0RmtzBueQzqxhi/n5AEBeQAAluUA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=OzMB3q1JgigMRY7OLnEA:9 a=TK-ZmhNouPSPh-jcGbuEhzgfH_EA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=ge4GFdIg4HPHdngT:21 a=tlbg0Rof5DGr4dYB:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b6f28b01e60 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-me06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME061-8bb44b6dbab6141; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:53:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 38856380001F3; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdplW-0005ju-Tj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdplW-0005jl-Bp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from mail.tula.net ([212.12.0.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdplT-000662-KY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from [212.12.27.30] (account ua3pw@home.tula.net HELO ua3pw59fc4bf05) by mail.tula.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTPA id 61629473 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:52:17 +0300 Message-ID: <00aa01caa75d$8117faf0$0501a8c0@ua3pw59fc4bf05> From: "UA3PW" To: References: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> <15DE4535B55145ADBD93747022CF6A2F@Black> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:52:16 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b6dbab521df X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Markus and LF. Thank you for captures and your grabber . Victor ua3pw / KO93JV . the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last ni= ght (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4= WPF, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Markus and LF.
Thank you for captures and your grabber .
 
Victor ua3pw / KO93JV .
 
the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 la= st night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WP= F, and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC034-86a14b881dcf11a; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07E833800008C; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dc-0008F8-VR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dc-0008Ez-Hn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5da-0008Ai-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QJE6ZM021927 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:14:08 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA00300 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:19:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:19:10 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:14:09 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b881dcd3366 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was > about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz Dear Jim, with such a noise Stefan's signal should be detectable in QRSS100 at 100 km. Seems to be worth if such noise level takes place every day and every night. It is naturally to assume noise level has some seasonal and some irregular variations. More data will be usefull. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.137]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b73d3983c0; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:53:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4E8243800017C; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:53:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfVi4-0007r2-9n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfVi3-0007qt-UI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfVi0-0000GL-WC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXO002NZ8PWYV@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:51:32 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:51:26 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54843 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60894b73d396459c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ)" --Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 11-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rb84lwKWn8cICJ1NGFHw11giuDDXjEaC9zWK3FW84vBIG7cE42a4lIABVXQXjJYo/Ag3C2NI iBYzGzd/43cnllslCECChYCEEQRMklrykVgpVMq6wMwMrig26cfNirDNycs4zkQHzi6ujwc3 B+MRfnFSgzDt4azQuzWgP6zlxQKiZIz3iCPWIEMT1jy43rL2LecUBp94j3AusZWsdYldr1kL dnneK/Iq402V1n7pGX6JVjbh07dJrE234j/mMt8+Muqk5m8X3d9riUPOaZzAOcTWi7d46q1g aIndxrCTtW4ThLrBUqnEygJwgUQ+cOhwXDEecBe16mcqB8TK8IKQw0C4jgUO8EekfWLV/wCH S4KgXUwB0PHGXQR83KUrnDW3DT0l7c2cHEyGh5yF1celq+8dLpQwltydAMcp3hoXvEsdGbMT Yg/Ga87MSkbPjE5hx1rFVM2Ys5zhI1drS49kERomd33xm2OnDeNsA943QI8G0+MBUHjjDZ9M 6y99ki3HRgV4M35yFxN0y7ratwAYBAQ7zWnsWsiVZx6wwLB/GOxd5xgES4KAvOAlGq8NB7jw iIIeI9RNRITIRQeQ2GrhNLhxcPusZ0gEyfcX4WckLBTJJwEIA1bjovH/2Q== --Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-dc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC013-864d4b6eabf826d; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:03:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 798CD380000F6; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5po-0002NY-U2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5po-0002NP-DA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne5pm-0000Ll-Nb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 44922 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Feb 2010 12:01:44 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1265544104; bh=Q35vaW//w3aDFxNQCUF6BYbF7AA4Hm1CoX1S3TpRyYw=; 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hdWGXaYVM1mQc1GOjhwSEXlS.mPb0y.a3Rnb..yq_0gCceJnTmvEQ_HPDHK8laSh1p4q9wyZnXMXsMv8vlcAGtg8eFVenjdMvfGOMywGWA56Xnl3XCkqb6_o37OBiz2Yxu9wcpzQWgDiMLEVJ9Wa6TIFOHrc0GgD0yGPjiA1RznvOkR7ovfQY9KPLDzgEC08IsHX_nMp9UNc2G83a4_UM6hj1zh7oCi6Owodt3uObZMzkHh9DpwL2SnesfHPVS76ByD7eldHU352NzVzk13Ahs2JIYsrB9Q0saLAJeZJv_0uHAevFzn5f9aqOcKBKRw- Received: from [213.122.4.4] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:44 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:01:44 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b6eabf726fb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Roelof, well skywave is not at a minimum at noon, it is at a maximum fo= r the daytime period. However you are right in your timing for another rea= son this is the most repeatable period of the day, assuming a quiet day wi= th no lunchtime flares, over a number of days. For reference skywave is probably at its lowest in the dawn and dusk "dips= ". Alan G3NYK --- On Sun, 7/2/10, Roelof Bakker wrote: > From: Roelof Bakker > Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, 7 February, 2010, 11:16 > Hello Gary, >=20 > Thank you for your feedback. > It is not easy to evaluate the noise situation. > Not only varies the noise with frequency, but the bandnoise > varies quite a bit from day to day. > I always do my noise tests around local noon as the skywave > is at a minimum. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE011-5ea24b68c923194; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:53:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDBBE3800008C; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:53:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcTTV-00007P-5K for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcTTU-00007G-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:08 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcTTR-0003Ii-Re for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:08 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o130q4Rx006131 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:52:05 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:52:04 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Thread-Index: AcqkCNpGt+IduJZAR5CirjCxAM/NqQAXhQqs References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.4229 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF" Subject: AW: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b68c9200e30 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim, Andy, Sam, Ken, Group ;-) =20 Excellent comments! Thank you for these explanations. I see, it is your bu= siness. And what i read tells me, that the optic way cannot be the wrong in princi= ple.=20 =20 Recently i even got a mail from a OM who was going qrt due to the (local)= qrm and waked up now with much interest and hope. Perhaps he will be reac= tivated by the optic way? I any case, it is an interesting alternative. =20 As i started with the optical way i compared the TX LED with a normal p-n-= junction of a bipolar transistor (base-emitter). Since bipolar transistors= are also used in preamps (although with much less power gain, so with the= need for a pre-preamp) and there has to be find a operating point where= the junction behaves linear (with the strongest signal that can occur at= the input) i thought this is comparable to the LED. And a bipolar transis= tor also has its noise figure. So i just tried and was surprised by the re= sults.=20 =20 Perhaps you could also give some practical ideas for an LF application. It= 's always interesting to get some alternatives. =20 CU, Stefan/DK7FC =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von SAM JEWELL Gesendet: Di 02.02.2010 13:25 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Folks, I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV systems use fibre link= s, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser) is amplitude modulate= d with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or regional Centre. These= carriers are usually locally generated but can also be from directly off-= air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The modulation index can be= held quite high for a single carrier, progressively reducing for multiple= carriers in order to minimize intermodulation between carriers. Ultimatel= y, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will be noise-like. Those= of you who have worked with the old telecom carrier based systems will= recognise the same characteristics.=20 The earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF= frequency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorio= n and added noise. Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amp= litude modulation of the light) came later. >From the laser (or LED) input to photodiode/PIN/APD output there will be= a certain link loss and system noise figure. If the system parameters are= known, this can be modelled using e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some system= s signal to noise ratio is critical. For LF systems, where there is a fair= ly high noise level, it may be far less critical (famous last words). Not all fibre systems use digital modulation of the light, although in mos= t cases it is still amplitude modulation. I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry the RF and IF si= gnals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes) at satellite eart= h stations across the site to the demodulation and signal processing build= ings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many years ago. Whilst= working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radio over= fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. These ea= rly fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the adjace= nt ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends! 73 de Sam, G4DDK ________________________________ From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13 Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer= fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres,= rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre los= s is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visib= le red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic= fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitte= r/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring preci= sion optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/= docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain= component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute tow= ards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electr= ical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fib= re in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the det= ector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will con= tribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself= is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage drivi= ng the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impe= dance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link= - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical= link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also= be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so= the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm mu= ltimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km...=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgUAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAMgAAAEFXOiBMRjogTG9vcCBwcmVh bXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIgLyBvcHRpY2FsIGxpbmsAyw8BBYADAA4AAADaBwIAAwABADQABAAD ACIBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAQA0AAQAAwAiAQEJgAEAIQAAADMxRTZGRjJDNjFDOUU3NDU5RTgw RDFENjAzRkZDNzZBAF0HAQOQBgCMIAAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AO/1TRprpMoBHgA9AAEAAAAF AAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEw MDIwMzAwNTIwNFotMjg5AAAAHgBJAAEAAAAyAAAAUmU6IExGOiBMb29wIHByZWFtcCB3aXRoIHRo 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VC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAFUR ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD081-860e4b8647f532e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:50:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 758A238000043; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaL8-0001HE-G1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaL7-0001H5-U5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkaL5-0002Y7-16 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AFA51C002 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA85531E702 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:46 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:47 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_00_10=0.642,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_27043522==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b8647f31363 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_27043522==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Stefan, did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in the 50..100 Ohm range. Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additional losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses). But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q = 250 for the loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large parallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher losses. Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this. Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm) 1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W. 2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loading coil would be 2.1A (= 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna current (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB. In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significantly, making it difficult to tune. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: >Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and >optimistic way, just like children are dreamers! >We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und >could start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km >if not done yet. > >On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO >over 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? > >Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and >he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. >Maybe i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the >public autoritys are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... > >Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next >listening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible >if this would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: > >The wire has abt 580pF >I can get a air coil with L=85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance >abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV >rms (if it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. >So, if f=8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some >470pF/40kV Cs, no problem) >The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, >that means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. >If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in >the region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a >radius of abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). >So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would >be 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the >voltage across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... > >If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be >reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that >can be expected on a sunday morning? :-) > >73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) > >Stefan/DK7FC --=====================_27043522==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Stefan,

did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in the 50..100 Ohm range.
Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additional losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses).
But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q = 250 for the loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large parallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher losses.
Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this.
Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm)
1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W.
2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loading coil would be 2.1A (= 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna current (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB.
In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significantly, making it difficult to tune.

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote:
Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optimistic way, just like children are dreamers!
We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not done yet.

On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO over 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs?

Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance...

Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next listening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical:
 
The wire has abt 580pF
I can get a air coil with L=85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (if it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz.
So, if f=8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some 470pF/40kV Cs, no problem)
The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, that means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA.
If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz).
So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA...
 
If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be expected on a sunday morning? :-)
 
73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-)
 
Stefan/DK7FC
--=====================_27043522==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b7bd02e1d7; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:17:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F26F380002B7; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhhsc-0007UC-4h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhhsb-0007U3-9X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:41 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhhsZ-0007o4-8T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:41 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4144991bwz.29 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:15:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=b6GO5qbu6cjzJ5pXTIzGOphaVSzx9T4ZUAGTLkG05k8=; b=BzcMWc6wYLhEXUQWDX9UBCEtoHpEaHqBfaf5uaaWFhbeYeO4aFYPw6Z07mDVF+/g9t PZrnh4hH1uBZhdxQUjgwzBA/+GWDtIRBrlk0BX84ZMCK+9/Mc24/D8jIxZRQ6WJcBGaz 8FubtkXlP79aS+ctvCDt/C1l8tRSmuPV269xw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BwCyjw0azg4pD9er5PRPzjTrt/WEPMKn/tsLXL78YFbjC0FKNqselZLC45RXsP2N7C 3lczHW45L32nEHw+xicW2ep7yV3JoZ/7St9oNx9lB4f8rQmw4EH5oghhsSCz0bJOYpyZ 479qQYaryKr4TojWPLY1MuejKA+iNFUT2YoeA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.17 with SMTP id i17mr5218072bka.173.1266405332004; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:15:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:31 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m264.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b7bd02c13a4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't use a Bird wattmeter. Don't trust any directional type of meter= for proper power measurements. I have a 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated) plus= HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated) so I reckon power measuremen= t is to within 0.2dB However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator, which= is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good idea Andy www.g4jnt.com On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul wrote: > >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' > > Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W, > with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. > Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. > > 73 > Clemens > DL4RAJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andy Talbot > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity > > A follow up to this sage > > After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it must= be > 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured > voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - So how could it deliv= er > 1kW plus... > > Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone > exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. > Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800 or so watt= s, > but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a higher value= and > I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). So it really was gi= ving > more power out than it 'ought to' > > BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in fact= , > if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspec= t in > the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. > Enough said. > > Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz where th= e > transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost > gain / efficiency. So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of > little use as a general HF amp. BUT, with suitable change of output > transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz= - if > a suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentatio= n > done, and any further work can wait for other projects to get pushed of= fthe > stack. > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > > > On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: > >> Andy,Rik, >> >> after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to >> http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif >> I'm sorry to say that >> I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) >> transfomer. >> >> Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above desig= n >> to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). >> 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path= from >> the primary to secondary side. >> *There is no such dc path here.* >> 2.)In a bootstrap design the *braid* of one coax end is *connected *to >> the *center* >> *conductor* at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax >> section (1:9 or higher). >> This is not the case in this design.*The center of the secondary is >> nowhere connected* >> *with a braid.* >> ** >> BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in lin= ear >> mode. >> If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on= the >> fundamental >> frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the >> low pass filter >> losses etc. >> It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater >> was designed to be superlinear. >> >> 73 >> Clemens >> DL4RAJ >> >> ** >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andy Talbot >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Cc:* ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM >> *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity >> >> BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted >> >> So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculatio= ns >> said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. >> Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configu= red >> with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second refere= nce, >> the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. >> >> Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of co= ax, >> which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio= (for >> 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped= on >> top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all it= s >> glory, is my mystery. >> >> The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has= two >> separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-p= ull >> HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hi= des a >> big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever >> ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and= even >> to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allow= s one >> end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how bal= anced >> operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper= . >> >> On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 >> transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the >> transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrap= ped >> on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructo= rs. >> A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax >> giving one turn more than it appears to. >> >> It all falls out. >> ... life is worth living again ... >> ... can retire happy ... >> >> >> Andy >> www.g4jnt.com >> ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... >> >> On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrot= e: >> >>> Andy, >>> >>> have a look here : >>> >>> http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf >>> >>> http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideb= and%20Transformers.pdf >>> >>> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ >>> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ >>> andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] >>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 >>> *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >>> *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. >> Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de >> Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/1= 0 >> 08:35:00 >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. > Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de > Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/16/10 > 08:35:00 > > --00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't use a Bird wattmeter.=A0 Don't trust any directional= type of meter for proper power measurements.=A0
=A0
I have a=A0 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated= ) plus HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated)=A0 so I reckon powe= r measurement is to within 0.2dB
=A0
However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator,= which is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good= idea
=A0
On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
>and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).
>=A0So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to&#= 39;
=A0
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with= a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW=A0element +/-125W.
Power master is a bit better with +/-= 30W.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:= 48 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

A follow up to this sage=A0=A0
=A0
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it mu= st be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.=A0=A0So I connected up and= measured voltages.=A0Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 -=A0=A0 So=A0=A0= how could it deliver 1kW plus...
=A0
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, =A0got out the 'teleph= one exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would= give.=A0=A0 Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800= or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a= higher value and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).=A0= =A0=A0 So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to'
=A0
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.=A0=A0 I'd= used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf=A0 and forg= ot it.=A0=A0 Enough said.
=A0
Anyway, tested the PA, and found=A0it would go down to about 5MHz whe= re the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs= lost gain / efficiency.=A0=A0 So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine,= but of little use as a general HF amp.=A0=A0 BUT, with suitable change of= output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or= 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.=A0 That's where it sits now.= =A0=A0 Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other proje= cts to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@= gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
=A0
after thinking a while over the trans= former of Andy's PA and referri= ng to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)=A0sur= e that it is=A0a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
=A0
Here are some crucial points which=A0= exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers=A0provide no dc= isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path here= .
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid of=A0one coax end is connected to the center
conductor at the sta= rt of the same=A0 coax (1:4) or of the next=A0 coax section (1:9 or higher= ).
This is not the case in this design.<= strong>The center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
=A0
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get easily=A0one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used as industrial RF= heater
was designed to be superlinear.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10= :43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:= 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 08:35:00=



Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/16/= 10 08:35:00


--00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE041-5eae4b6e92032ad; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:12:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCF55380001A7; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne474-0001KC-FQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne474-0001K3-4Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne472-00084c-En for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17ABVHI014482 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:11:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:28 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b6e92013f15 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Alan, Thank you for the hands up. Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the coax inside or outside the mast. But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roof or what else. So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests. Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not only an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test gear. It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy but accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be set to 5 Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm. And a 40 MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is great in tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.77]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB031-85ef4b8394c63d; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:41:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1A8A3380000C2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:41:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqK7-0007sx-LX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqK7-0007sm-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqK5-0000g8-DG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8fZlA009665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8fZgw009662 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604d4b8394c47d44 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > Well, perhaps it is not necessary to reach a "DX", DX becomes very=20 > relative in that frequency range. 50km sounds like a really good DX=20 > here. 50km would be real dx, because this is not near-field anymore. it is interesting to compare this with the other end of the spectrum. the= =20 microwavers are having great fun trying to span 200m. > But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks?=20 > Wouldn't that be a nice tool to try what's possible, for a first step? qrss cw is much easier to generate (eg. via a microcontroller) and doesn't= =20 need a linear PA. the whole setup is much easier do debug. > If 750m is possible with 2W TX power and 4m*14m loop then it should be= =20 > possible to reach some km with a grounded dipole of abt 2x500m. for the 750m test i used a different antenna. but i did reach 930m with=20 40W and a 4x14m vertical loop. a ground dipole should be great, especially if you live in an area with=20 low ground conductivity - the "loop" area gets larger this way the biggest problems in getting your signal out, apart from the antenna=20 size, is getting an electromagnetically quiet location. in my expierience in a noisy city location, with a 1.5x2.5m vertical=20 3-turn loop on a balcony, with 40W and qrss3: 100m - easy, i can hear the beacon by ear, even when it's 9kHz 300m - easy copy with spectrum lab 450m - still fine copy 550m - very weak signal, marginal copy the near field falls with the third power of distance, so it is hard to=20 get much further. this is a very practical setup, if you can find=20 someone 500m away from you to experiment. > Important is the achieved fascination, isn't it? What would you feel if= =20 > you would get a contact in QRSS10 to your next VLF interested neighbour,= =20 > say in 20km? I expect the biggest problem on VLF is to find a person who= =20 > is fascinated in the same manner than one self ;-) I do not know someone= =20 > in a radius of 50km who is interested :-( But i will discuss it in our= =20 > club... the next person who i know is very interested lives 220km from me :) it's= =20 a problem to find someone interested in 136kHz, so finding vlf entusiasts= =20 in your area might be a problem. > BTW, why exactly choosing 8,79 kHz (Horst?)?, why not 8,9 kHz? going lower in frequency avoids problems with key clicks and oscillator=20 drift going past the 9kHz barrier > We all have a great hobby, really! i'll drink to that! :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF --17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-ma04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA044-b5234b859704259; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:15:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 56CE3380001A9; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOYe-0007L4-Kr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOYd-0007Kq-Sb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:11 +0000 Received: from smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOYa-0007cF-Cr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 49232 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2010 21:14:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=BwPK3OJhs3oQJI8vDFLKAjJ4BJO51LshECcN3MpFDEdIJ1zzTeOKhPJonGXsgwG+LozX2b3XNjg00XhN3mjZ1JzfxqS1QRxOVJSMd1UasAZy6MdA3CWmghT+8mo1ZdDH+q4sOBgSrkFhnDuTsQF7WjUNsDwMW6QULghoxXLNFko= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1267046041; bh=K8vEn1OKAiRn3vTIMhTSGzN8KF/ki4WqN08afNIbQZs=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=AbkQp1czi+s3sJmFEVOFzyGgLfsqRJj5P7J1wZWs7TQ3bcsGCKOy4EE3tsjzb1NocOrBBaxTIFJA5rMpesHREYE05HIBqMlZUK5BUvX/GPtNfGSIPb2IWg7fuB75WdAMBpXOhsNXsLpE+cltzo5CJFtUabIguZCxsgtSMYid0AQ= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2010 13:14:00 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: qPHJYa4VM1m8eW42CkEbSyVQtYzT5fEHzsbQLEZe556.EqmgEZL5P3x6BIoRspb6x5wdqBrWaWpKzBMLnYhlGUHzSL0dcfBg7k5yxbMSwy7MFczTS3b2WbklRq1YNV3ArpYKmkuMg2pAU8LOZO5O.zQSVVdpwCX51DcTlyQ8Zi5RY0ikWP26vKKmaCosOs.yvRFITedCtECyoVffICewwY5RP2sTqSs52rb5LICLzChOO_wasBQ08e9ggYWGJobB X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <6D84087F68F641C7938B42CE6067AA35@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:13:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55464 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b8596fb705a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="inv_L_Rloss.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="inv_L_Rloss.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDABQODxIPDRQSEBIXFRQYHjIhHhwcHj0sLiQySUBM S0dARkVQWnNiUFVtVkVGZIhlbXd7gYKBTmCNl4x9lnN+gXz/2wBDARUXFx4aHjshITt8U0ZT fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHz/wAAR CAGzAgEDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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[193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh0PP-0003At-DA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:50:39 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh0PN-0001NE-Re for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:50:39 +0000 Received: from COL122-W3 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:50:28 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:50:28 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2010 12:50:28.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[73A1EBB0:01CAAE3D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_" Subject: LF: XGJ X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b7943771169 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_" --_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Warren, LF! Your signal was very nice here last night. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Warren, LF!
Your signal was very nice here last night.

Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS


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--_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b7493c233f; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:33:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8CE143800007F; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:33:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiW9-00037x-Be for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiW8-00037o-P6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:16 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiW6-0006DF-7b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:16 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1BNWDA0029800 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:13 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:12 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:12 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Thread-Index: AcqrYKNcQRLVwG9XQueyRDmVcxTy7AADRSan References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.11.231819 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D" Subject: AW: AW: LF: Fiber optic components X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b7493c05065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerhard,=20 =20 Thank you! I haven't known that. The sensitivity of the SFH350V is maximal= at 850nm. But at 650nm it is still 57% and thus also usable. But if one= wants to get "the perfect system" this might be a guess...=20 =20 73! Stefan/DK7FC =20 PS: Nice signal in QRSS60 in the moment, well visible here. But the freque= ncy stability of my K2 is a desaster. That is one reason why i built my ow= n RX that will be supplied with the DDS-VFO...;-) =20 PPS: Before 2 h i hang up my ant for HF at the new QTH, a unsymmetric dipo= le, fed with ladder line and a homemade symmetric tuner and a homemade 500= W class E PA. The first QSO this year on HF, 80m seems almost to be SHF fo= r me, starting with that 3... ;-) The first QSO was to OE5MSM, who seems= to be a neighbor of Ossi/OE5ODL. He said he has a loop with 350m and 35m= up! And he is interested in LF! So i told him much of LF and tried to mot= ivate him. He is member of the EHSC (>300bpm) and promised, that we will= do a QRQ QSO on LF when he is QRV ;-) I gave him the hint to start visiti= ng the DF6NM grabber. Perhaps we will have another strong stn here from OE= ?! :-) If you live in near of him, pse ask him each day if he is QRV now= ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gerhard Hickl Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 22:20 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Hello Stefan ! 850nm is visible too! It by far not that bright than "visible" light is, but nevertheless, still visible. 850nm is the typical wavelength used for MultiMode Fiber Connections. On a 50-62.5 Multimode-Fiber it usually can travel for up to one kilometer (850m is the nominal distance). The wavelength I am usually dealing with is 1310 or 1550nm (SDH and WDM equipment). So maybe you'll give the 850nm a try. I don't know if these components are cheaper than the 600nm but visibility is not the problem. Cheers OE3GHB Gerhard Am Donnerstag, den 11.02.2010, 20:25 +0100 schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer: > Hi Roelof, >=20 > My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V= (6,58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward= current. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough,= so perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same curre= nt, say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see= the light coming into the shack... >=20 > The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there. >=20 > 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components > > > > Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, > > Thank you all. > Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. > I am not that desperate yet. > > These items are advertised as low cost.... > > I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. > However these are also hard to find. > > I will look into it a bit further. > > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0XAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy 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ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAAv5w= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b71d759297; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:44:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07994380001B3; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NexrY-0005D6-O0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:43:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NexrY-0005Cx-13 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:43:16 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) 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with SMTP id u14mr525960bkf.135.1265751784322; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:43:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:43:04 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b71d7545179 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculations said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has two separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and even to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructors. A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of coax giving one turn more than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: > Andy, > > have a look here : > > http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf > > http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ > andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com > *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity > > > --00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fy= s.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0
--00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-da01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA012-86114b83c9987; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:27:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 191EB38000114; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtpT-0000ix-Oj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtpT-0000io-9q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: from smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjtpR-0002aF-NU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 57403 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2010 12:25:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=zaW8OAKNnaTJfLtutnPVNd2HOd44DTxvDZmG7V5AvvNzu0vrmNS+erBcPRHBb3spfbXpedya9i2HyNok7dJnY+MKuYjvwTOhqNjWmCwp3eQmZ2spedRv/y7yrbWZNkWNKqYIOOXSosDAUoxvx0o/UfM9QQWqZFAKK8vbivome3E= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266927923; bh=4uRCSHrqznqwM2wIsmh/t2vuK5X6h3S9ft97bomLn3E=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=MZ0+MXHU2lv6lhDJGYpK/QO6c23xdzxAvGAR6NU9Vjk1yV9tO3mrZf9MY5Mo7xzjiOxaDA7d3N+w4nxWIe9mP2Q+j2ix7p2JKU1hJOnqH+3fXLxUbNcXJ8uDWLoiZAFIm3VTnsoTVgmYeLH9oBM/mqJg54CGWEDUKBgtBjyGdXk= Received: from 64683d74b6134b3 (robertgjbennett@217.44.159.157 with login) by smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 12:25:22 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: khKbo3qswBAevJSEf.Soeh08VpP3pgtFENUUoUzoJw6opDkeTsHZWXMBHg-- X-YMail-OSG: YkBQQW0VM1nCKslW_OBj_NZC44CYssZiRvqLdHIJmz7UCxpvA6VVIOiK6.Z5dsEK7t06vBHdm3wy5spM.KNtcv_tFTum9f0v4iZQsswhPQ9BH5j6NMI47hm6LEYBJJ0NDuzMISCCjuTbblBA8kALzhOAhv5b7tgVquTatJylImqLiaAQZzcm6UAbFSbv2SN318OfDuSwCw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <9492A6AF01C240E0934E6CDA6BCA1EBF@64683d74b6134b3> From: "Robert Bennett" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d232.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b83c9972f0f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jacek My thought with laserscatter was that transmission at 20-30Hz might offer better propagation through the ground than 9kHz. 73 Robert > > without modifications wspr and laserscatter use frequencies which are too > low. > > jacek > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF064-5ef94b69477735d; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:52:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1B82038000043; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:52:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncbte-0002F4-5S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncbtd-0002Ev-KB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:41 +0000 Received: from n21.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.160]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncbtd-0005wj-4m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:41 +0000 Received: from [68.142.200.225] by n21.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 Received: from [68.142.201.66] by t6.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp418.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 179523.54056.bm@omp418.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8033 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=tAvhQjOUvGDasV1nw1FOUoj6b5XLrQY60dz2BfWpYMXeFRhPNIhC2MoZTPl7yh0KoX0mRSbaD3VzRa7w3SnGlYSKoyC7M4j8ojBqGDwaTzOBye2WvvsZGeUF6FMch4cALV4SiJas1e/YhS9EY3+lcR5od01wAHofJPpNPTwkvnI= ; Received: from host86-144-172-144.range86-144.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.144.172.144 with login) by smtp142.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 01:51:33 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: Ag2DWKkVM1kZX8DHbQBllCSjOVmhXbmP1MRHczV5IHc.ygvjDEG.qmSPKLn7GiR4xuNwEJWfgYVncGe8DNl01N6N3aO7MTVUN1ojnItzPV4onKImsh4J1rnYNSBePLpOFIQQoWJIviN.37139OpUOrp4PxmiUC9i_c.Tr_0.83R7qS0is9Uu6rBets.pTQSt3.dzOfTVY8Vza1_kSwPxJSjJd0JP_Je5iJdknQ1o9XAG9452ABVTrQbPiOVO24L8YKFbbOZ31pUhMXEeNoYD1PViNulngsdUMMCOPYMx7t0AIzEtEPIQe9.aLkzgqA0sKdWEzvbohZkgRy1t8McMhG4oSMHYbYr_xavdBqxKnEvEtmq.HwPDj80dFG5t7fpxosroISB0mBcPZtmU.T64B4R6jFA1fM57m3RVC7KLewemL3o3tqIu_v5G X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> From: "Ken" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:51:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b69477550d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan. Thanks for the reply, if you know anyone in the telecoms industry try= and=20 obtain some off cuts of fibre, either 50/125 multimode, or 8/125 singl= e=20 mode, the first figure is the core diameter, the second the outer clad= ding=20 diameter all in microns, better still if you can persuade them to put= a=20 connector on the ends, I expect optical connectors have changed somewh= at=20 since I retired, also as Mal said dont use to tight bends or the fibre= may=20 fracture with time. Anything is possible, I did some experiments coupl= ing a=20 fibre into an ordinary flashlight for use as fibre identification, and= it=20 worked very well. Keep up the good work, when you have a good system= maybe=20 you will write a paper on it for us all, that is what our great hobby= is all=20 about. 73 Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:50 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hey Ken, Tnx for your statement. Well, i am not an expert in optic links and th= e=20 parts i choose are probably not the best, that are available for this= =20 application. Theese parts were available for me and they are suitable in principle,= =20 although the attenuation may be some dB less. Today i measured the gai= n of a=20 single BF862 in a preamp application for LF and i calculated a voltage= gain=20 of 26dB. Well, in that case it is not so important for me if the cable= has=20 3dB loss or 0,03dB loss. The main aspect is, that the local noise is= =20 decoupled. Because if it is not decoupled, the SNR can quickly decreas= e by=20 more than 20dB, as i saw. And 3dB losses are not 3dB less SNR. Perhaps the transmission system can be improved by using special parts= . But=20 are they available for everyone (private, not commercial customers) an= d are=20 they in a range below 5EUR? Perhaps you can tell me/us a more suitable= type=20 of cable that is perhaps even cheeper? The parts i use in the moment have no special mounting. The fiber opti= c=20 cable is just cut with a gripper and stuck plugged in the housing of= the=20 LED, thats all. And it can be done many times, thats important... So, do you have an idea of better parts that are cheep and available,= with=20 variable length of the cable, so not preassembled? :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Ken Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:56 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at= 1300nm or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What opt= ical wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If yo= u are using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be= high, the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the= fibre, ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibr= e may be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduc= e attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode.= In the 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning= optical line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-)= ), so rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DC= F39 in the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less no= ise. So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise, probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the= RX. The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already order= ed some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s= of years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no pr= oblem for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier= within the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sens= itive RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to= worry any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/ho= use to the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, incl= uding the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.87]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB073-a7a34b8424541a2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:54:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15EC23800008D; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzsL-0003PO-H1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzsL-0003PF-2u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjzsI-0006Rd-J9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.67]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1NIqbm8017869 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:52:37 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (unknown [92.17.230.78]) by mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id B1213E0007AD for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:43:01 -0500 (EST) From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:42:59 +0000 Message-Id: <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29434b8421b54d0b X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a64b84244f4eb1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 James, I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation of the factors affecting global warming! On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > With best regards > > > > Jim > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > Roger > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > might join in. > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > Mal, > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > weak signal techniques this time. > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > wrote: > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > stns. > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > any of these modes. > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE081-5ebe4b687659e3; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:00:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 620A2380002BD; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNyK-0006vF-Br for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNyJ-0006v6-SX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:35 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNyH-0001R2-D8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:35 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuAEAMIEaEtOlvOe/2dsb2JhbACBbI03ymGERQQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,392,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282007643" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.150.243.158]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 18:59:09 +0000 Message-ID: <005901caa439$c7f713b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:59:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: G3KEV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b68765440fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx agn Lubos. My TX 1/4 wave inv L antenna is doing the business, getting good repor= ts worldwide from near and far=20 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: LF: G3KEV Hello Mal, LF! Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snapshot. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx agn Lubos.
My TX 1/4 wave inv L antenna is doin= g the=20 business, getting good reports worldwide from near and far
73 de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 02,= 2010 6:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: G3KEV

Hello Mal, LF!
Your signal is really excellent -= see the=20 attached snapshot.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD072-8b8d4b86a5ab167; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AABFC380001D3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkgao-0005mt-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkgao-0005mk-GH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkgao-0006gU-AP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 6460 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 16:29:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267115372; bh=NfyuQ1NcCQAi7PYoIH+kSrDlS+hxwrCdow1mUaN8SwA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Kr+DdRhLQPqzH1DuPiw29fJ7LuQ0lcjssBQ4WlLpQHZ7wQGwem4l9y69tNac/rw5jBfIC22WM2U4zAEd1cVB6wYaaKnkkkB3uHzGy7vHRu8yDyjt7Pz8To9EvTYZ+0kPk79BmczIpyZHbQt6dLU2XldwRNk6QgCiwViYkLkaB1M= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Harxh2K8q1oXjoE43x8rUdD/k5QFc3U2cdudCWLtdqNR66HHa3PegSJwlEvjn6FnTMRW3WvOkerM66XXr+ceSBzUkgoUtGCJvshf8QzbmibZP4FicFphwDiBRRPAYTRnFZ3w1WQ2JVjOf4vDmJpuVSEQzEXCGg2jw20VqluikeE=; Message-ID: <444496.6419.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: MQFmac8VM1ktiS_XDwomq0dRLDgy50Lrr02W3wq1Sc30dfDjPqf75ELnlHMn1icD6b5ywMZUetmBIJDpTq7RMiTBJzbJ6VYZL5q8rT5snr.wfqRXNCu0.fkXfTh37baG3TYUwoR8eY02HsbsH.uevEMI9GPkyxewWkiTUupHfNgPBwHOP9g5Ims3T1gGVzvukBWUbcRzGZGeD3OIcxIz6Rh.4KF4315HYIIDlkRXS4ViWfCrGXUxYK7YkYvDkxoQ5OxmkTMEKv68J7zy_l4k_Kk- Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:29:32 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-640322957-1267115372=:6419" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d257.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b86a5a962c8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Group=20 As an indication of what can be heard using a Sound Card RX, SAQ when on,= is very strong with me using just an Inv Vee 80m dipole strapped feeder.= Russian Alpha stations 10 to 15 kc/s=A0tend to vary in strength but at th= e moment 16;12 UTC 25/2/2010=A0they are peaking about12dB above the mean= noise floor. Clear audio using Winrad filter set to100c/s and well define= d trace on the water fall display. =A0 I don't think there is any issues receiving in the 7 / 9 kc/s region. But= we are talking weak signal FFT software for reception and relatively shor= t range for Amateurs judging by previous work done in this part of the spe= ctrum. =A0 Interesting to note there are no official allocations below 9kc/s in the= UK according to Ofcomic's publication :-- =A0=A0 ITU-R Allocations and Footnotes in Region 1 only Allocation to United Kingdom Services Current Use in the United Kingdom Below 9 kHz (not allocated) RR444, 445 Below 9 kHz=20 (not allocated) The band below 9 kHz is not allocated for use in the UK =A0 =A0These audio loops for hard of hearing do not appear to require a TAX ta= ke either! 73 es GL petefmt =A0 =20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Group
As an indication of what can be heard using a Sound Card RX, SA= Q when on, is very strong with me using just an Inv Vee 80m dipole= strapped feeder. Russian Alpha stations 10 to 15 kc/s tend to vary= in strength but at the moment 16;12 UTC 25/2/2010 they are peaking= about12dB above the mean noise floor. Clear audio using Winrad filter set= to100c/s and well defined trace on the water fall display.
 
I don't think there is any issues receiving in the 7 / 9 kc/s region.= But we are talking weak signal FFT software for reception and relatively= short range for Amateurs judging by previous work done in this part of th= e spectrum.
 
Interesting to note there are no official allocations below 9kc/s in= the UK according to Ofcomic's publication :--
  
= ITU-R Allocations and Footnot= es in Region 1 only<= /TD> = Allocation to United Kingdom= Services = Current Use in the United Kin= gdom
Below 9 kHz

(not allocated)

RR444, 445=

Below 9 kHz

(not allocated)

 The band below 9 kHz= is not allocated for use in the UK
 
 These audio loops for hard of hearing do not appear to require= a TAX take either!

73 es GL petefmt

 

=20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.96]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF013-5ee44b86d8ad25e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:08:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 72EC23800009D; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:08:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkjyx-0007RG-Sr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkjyx-0007R7-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkjyv-0008Fx-Qw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W1 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: , Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:06:38 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2010 20:06:39.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A5B9FE0:01CAB656] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_" Subject: LF: Reverse PLT QRM - From Electrical supply power meter X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b84b86d8ac7a64 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Ive been talking about my qrm on 137 khz for some time and have long susp= ected the ABB/Landis/Gyr/Hunt mechanical electrical meter as installed by= the electrical power company on their side on the incoming 2 phase supply= - =20 =20 They use remote data collection using the power lines at a very low data= rate- with a "Turtle" module installed inside the meter - aka http://www.barronelectric.com/energy/turtletech.html and "The Turtle modul= e is installed in the meter at your house and the consumption information= is sent to a Turtle receiver at the nearest electrical substation, using= the power lines. From there, the information is delivered by phone to the= Turtle software in the Electric Meter Shop, where the information is proc= essed for the billing department. The entire process takes about 27 hours= to complete, thus, the name =93Turtle=94. =20 =20 Its a low bit rate device - trouble is it was injecting wide band old styl= e car ignition noise at some S7 and radiating using the house wiring - Noi= se was audible at some strength from 70-500Khz. The electrical company muc= h to their credit didnt blow me off - especially when I held a Eton style= SSB rx near the meter and when the guy unplugged the "EVM" turtle device= and the noise dissapeared - he tried different models, capacitors etc but= unable to clear. =20 The final resolution was the electrical supply company to completely remov= e this device from inside the meter and will now come round and "read' the= mechanical meter once a month - a backwards step in their view money/time= savings but they agreed that this PLT system in incompatiable with my noi= se level needs. =20 just a heads up if your encountering a similar noise.... =20 I now have a much better s/n down on 137 =20 Laurence KL 1X Wasilla Alaska WE2XPQ =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/=3D --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Ive been talking about  my qrm on 137 khz for some time and have long= suspected the ABB/Landis/Gyr/Hunt mechanical electrical meter as installe= d by the electrical power company on their side on the incoming 2 phase su= pply -
 
 
They use remote data collection using the power lines at a very low data= rate- with a "Turtle" module installed inside the meter  - aka<= BR> http://ww= w.barronelectric.com/energy/turtletech.html and "The Turtle= module is installed in the meter at your house and the consumption inform= ation is sent to a Turtle receiver at the nearest electrical substation,= using the power lines. From there, the information is delivered by phone= to the Turtle software in the Electric Meter Shop, where the information= is processed for the billing department. The entire process takes about= 27 hours to complete, thus, the name =93Turtle=94. 
 
Its a low bit rate device - trouble is it was injecting wide band old styl= e car ignition noise at some S7 and radiating using the house wiring - Noi= se was audible at some strength from 70-500Khz. The electrical company muc= h to their credit didnt blow me off - especially when I held a Eton style= SSB rx near the meter and when the guy unplugged the "EVM" turtle device= and the noise dissapeared - he tried different models, capacitors etc but= unable to clear.
 
The final resolution was the electrical supply company to completely remov= e this device from inside the meter and will now come round and "read' the= mechanical meter once a month - a backwards step in their view money/time= savings but they agreed that this PLT system in incompatiable with my noi= se level needs.
 
just a heads up if your encountering a similar noise....
 
I now have a much better s/n down on 137
 
Laurence KL 1X Wasilla Alaska
WE2XPQ


Hotmail: Powerful Free email= with security by Microsoft. Get it now. =3D --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b67ece91cf; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:14:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0AF08380000F7; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:14:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEo5-0004V1-HH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEo5-0004Us-5c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcEo2-0005Uh-6O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX7005LUIWDBQ@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:12:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:12:10 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <09658415B8E144399852F337830DCE7F@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 02-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1NJ1W2MkwUJ5DQFmp05mpw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b67ece703f2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_1NJ1W2MkwUJ5DQFmp05mpw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w)" --Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz ,and also audible, henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 02-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC  507.77Khz ,and also audible,
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 02-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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+0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxm2-0005Et-0y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:16 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2815062bwz.4 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=NHuh44ai00Ensi+hy/vbwHcW0iQz0GuRZ3HOAJjz6VM=; b=KUonewdFtz+Qg0MMo8dmhvQTwp1TH4ZpoaWkoPZOW1OowZV/jvughY5haRKFsui8LW ke7N7X9jR0rX5RKB7ZTvYWmI672sATxFsThSAIaLeIfEuiOk0YUC41iq38614X32GjVe D2k5hggGSqWMoSJxkJ4JWZgtaWoApqEQFMDao= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=wPeG4DWPylFCLetlxiHPLMdl8/kifvRHjYGHRpAn3awxfjXVxPJPKsAT1T0g6IczQV oIh+slsiPiePCTJlUBj8ezkdLShzgaWazbmJsKW/jCvXEmwUUNnKNHcwFRAW22aR6j6j kPiZpPViNavW+jv8+z1/GvJyP9LVWz8O2rVuw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.82 with SMTP id s18mr1146765bkd.94.1266943087051; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:06 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555e862a784580480472c75 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d303.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60924b8404b87d45 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555e862a784580480472c75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK today (on CW and *not* by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is *lots* of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views, even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrote: > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. > Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions > but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty > wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going > strong. > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fly by > night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning > across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would appear > MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a > suitable RX and antenna. > Your observations ? > > de G3KEV > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555e862a784580480472c75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.

Yes,= HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK= today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR sign= als on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W)= yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF= bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity= on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting ope= nings. PSK31 is widely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wi= ll be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments= . I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon,= but using the best weak signal techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not help= ful.=A0 However, it's a free country and you're entitled to expres= s your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger G3XBM
<= br>
On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talkt= alk.net> wrote:
Generally band condx vy good at prese= nt from LF to=20 HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA= =20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of Amt= or, Pactor and=20 packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the=20 years.
Observations indicate that data mode= acty does not=20 last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB an= d RTTY=20 are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty are= data but I am=20 referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the= JT,=20 wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham operato= rs are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF belo= w 9 Kcs I will=20 listen out.=A0I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
=A0
de G3KEV
=A0
=A0



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555e862a784580480472c75-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.96]) by air-dd04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD042-86324b673c08265; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:39:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 175F138000217; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:39:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc32Y-00031M-K7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc32Y-00031D-7v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from smtp09.online.nl ([194.134.42.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc32W-0001Z9-4a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from smtp09.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp09.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636DC1E0C1 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp09.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp09.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b673c067c2b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thaks for the report Lubos, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 2010 21:14 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: 500kHz Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thaks for the=20 report Lubos,
 
73
 
Victor
PA3FNY
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 2010 21:14
Aan:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals= on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b6cc9af3ad; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:45:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 42F11380000DA; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZiX-0001DI-96 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZiW-0001D9-Jy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:12 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdZiV-0008Au-CL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:12 +0000 Received: from COL122-W42 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:44:03 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:44:03 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2010 01:44:03.0574 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCC2C960:01CAA6CD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_" Subject: LF: PA0A X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b6cc9ae5c72 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_" --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! The signal of PA0A is very big here - see the attachement. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ E-mail na cesty =96 z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
The signal of PA0A is very big here - see the attachement.
Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

E-mail na= cesty =96 z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. Zaregistrovat =3D --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_-- --_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100206_PA0A.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAvAT8DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 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1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.213]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF084-5f014b726aa422f; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:13:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8418C3800023F; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:13:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf7fm-0005qp-0Q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf7fl-0005qg-Ki for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:45 +0000 Received: from mx75.mail.ru ([94.100.176.90]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nf7fj-0007wH-6b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:45 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=40203 helo=EFREMOV) by mx75.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nf7fM-0000tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:11:20 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:09:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: swl 136 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d54b726aa26f5e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, Captures last night: WD2XGJ VO1NA OE5ODL G3XDV PA3CPM 73 Andrey ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="xgj.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="xgj.jpg" /9j/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEBAgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAA ZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0QgU3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIElt YWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjoxMCAxMDo1ODozNgAFAACQBwAEAAAAMDIyMJCSAgAEAAAAODkwAAKg BAABAAAAvgAAAAOgBAABAAAAHAAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAAAAACAAEAAgAEAAAAUjk4AAIA 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rp4JM0dJII2X6FQR6YtnpKVZmVaWIAMbAIPrj0vTLZg26VFAn4FJWozX/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.13]) by air-dc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC013-864d4b82b12e34; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:30:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5A42838000114; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbAC-0002M7-2C for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbAB-0002Ly-Nr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:39 +0000 Received: from cmsout01.mbox.net ([165.212.64.31]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbA9-00036V-F8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:39 +0000 Received: from cmsout01.mbox.net (cmsout01-lo [127.0.0.1]) by cmsout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62312AC701 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net [165.212.11.138] by cmsout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.61T) with ESMTP id XID849oBVqdE4624X01; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:30 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.11.138 IN dibene@usa.net cmsapps02.cms.usa.net X-USANET-MsgId: XID849oBVqdE4624X01 Received: from [192.168.1.2] [151.47.216.174] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ESMTPA/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.3.53P) with ESMTPA id 328oBVqdC8672M38; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:28 -0000 X-USANET-Auth: 151.47.216.174 AUTH dibene@usa.net [192.168.1.2] Message-ID: <4B82B0E6.9070603@usa.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:29:26 +0100 From: Alberto di Bene User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Z-USANET-MsgId: XID328oBVqdC8672X38 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b82b12b1e7a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On 2/22/2010 5:22 PM, Warren Ziegler wrote: > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! That's why it is interesting... were it easy, then it would be for appliance operators... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b8539c7280; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B11F938000125; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIMH-0005WE-UF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIMH-0005W4-Jt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkIME-0004Vp-Lr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OEasar047092 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:36:55 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00290 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:51 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:36:56 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=koi8-r X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8539c55b24 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, [iso-8859-1] Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > So we have to spend a high coupling capacity to ground (at the end=20 > of Pete's inv-L) It does not matter where capacity conected: at the end of inv-L or at the feeding point. Add condenser Cp between ground stake and antenna! Then a foil is needless. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC061-86024b88c41c2ab; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:05:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4AB8438000088; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:04:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlGhq-00050W-Pa for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlGhq-00050N-5H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlGhm-0002nM-Ni for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYH003H6NL661@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:03:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:03:06 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4FCC2F0F3D484AE8B57920262B283664@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 27-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55570 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b88c41a7899 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ)" --Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 27-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 27-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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4JGapXY9EdYafAt6sYNSuuZ++XjaBFHmZ5eHQB9RsJouADgIlUqOo9gvTE3qwBiBHm2+YSxW 8FcN6MwcY9RIsdImXgWWUeamgwOpVfzojJX5gOJbnO25/nT/2Q== --Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.139]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b728d99217; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:42:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6D2C380015F2; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfA0G-0006E0-Uc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfA0G-0006Dr-Kb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfA0D-0000o7-Kk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1AAerj3024009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0330 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Message-ID: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: swl 136 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608b4b728d896fe9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Andrey, Thanks for the report and capture. VX9MRC will be on CW 507.77 kHz for a few days. 73 Joe VO1NA On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, rn3agc wrote: > Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, > > Captures last night: > > WD2XGJ > VO1NA > OE5ODL > G3XDV > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME043-8bae4b854dc3359; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2CFF8380002A6; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJgp-0005ty-CW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJgo-0005tp-W3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:18 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJgl-0005GC-Sl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:18 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B71B7B8047 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38AD31E702 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:56 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:54 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9I Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b854dbb1001 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Alexander, if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH:=20 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm=20 The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) then at 9kHz the loss= resistance would be almost 2 kOhm. Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the lo= sses. But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a 30mH= coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more conve= nient value. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com] Verzonden: woensdag 24 februari 2010 22:35 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems > > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter= , > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3D3= .2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.213]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB091-85f54b7a5f1f3e2; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:02:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03E6C38000488; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhJIc-0004rt-AR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhJIb-0004rk-P5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:53 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.159]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhJIY-0007iL-V6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:53 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DEDA87000083; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D1FB07000086; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.22.49]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5328F7000083; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:42 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100216090042340.5328F7000083@mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: Cc: "John Hudson" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100216-0, 16/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d54b7a5f1d0da2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GB4FPR will be operating later on to day to this evening=20 502 tx xtal control=20 RX - 501>504 & 3566 +/- =20 Pls take look=20 Tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GB4FPR will be operating later on to&= nbsp; day=20 to  this evening
 
502 tx xtal control
 
RX -  501>504   &am= p;  3566=20 +/- 
 
Pls take  look
 
Tnx - G .


------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC024-86a04b865391263; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:40:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B848380000BC; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkb7P-0001jC-Ji for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkb7O-0001j3-SN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:54 +0000 Received: from web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkb7O-00030j-EV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 9430 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267094327; bh=17dNAWOWslaM9EigBG5bxiCq3U3wbDy6WELZKjKyVqg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IIQd1PXrXr/BtBvQGLutFNiTpekYUJnRBB1gKcN+fqEk778ewhAQSfGEKMGiaYsx8q6HvGi3ggRzgUEHmkfHCd9pEu5WqDBe5sze8Ffps7pM3mDMZ8QURUwbiBzQTRVGTwqMbo19GIrcvo4KcFZdcdA63kplH1K6tO+LFOmIMWs= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WyA4t3lD8iB7WoNIBIZ3VnQ/k9RcbIo99QgHG1t5DJT9YwCIATsQibObJtWMRWv3CaeOPDJwD3xt+O3/AvjtulSQC7i3TbZ/pWopxR1k6pCO+/Ymnw3qdJ96dYYkX7fZMFMJiGtLu+nQBWXBZsMVvBr+PVEign9eP4+ijOBRyKE=; Message-ID: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: yVPGcOcVM1l4Hf.fiA7F3inJqQ0tZ.2RbvTxUcCRIwatfZtLf6VuxiJE4rBO6A2_JZ.vzovPMrZNlkRkzYzcvlJ1kDAUFkvTbiKOZpFUALIKMwoTokfyMrc3VXTxsuK1kYVngD.Ntz157z4gSxlFcoKrDM7yLd.lEiOvnyqqaH_jjIPP2V2tjPhvq6ZLAdm4OLRJoAEK05Ul8j_gOjaZl2_yu_XwWorVfE6QdWIEP3B0rjoti6SZ7OmnNdocx3IfVLaM4tKWRV0Ujr9yd8p15ws1Qb8- Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <2021F4D9DCF542B290883FF2F30AB357@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d235.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b86538f2eb0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and ins= tall either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC to= 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. Us= ing SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum allo= wing it to be processed by others.=20 =A0 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. =A0 It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and= or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 =A0 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I= can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is gettin= g better I=A0will be able to get out working on the antenna. =A0 Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth= electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas becau= se my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will diss= ipate most of the power which means it be=A0getting very very hot and prob= ably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical!=A0Some ideas ha= ve been kicked around on the is reflector and off list there may be someth= ing I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could yo= u put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW=A0 =A0 IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40= m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set= up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph= =20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for= =20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field= =20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, clo= se to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas= was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open=A0 field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the= =20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -= =20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increase= s=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books sa= y, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at= low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cau= se resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a= =20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher= at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitabl= e=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF= -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q= of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated= =20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with= a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of= =20 the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket an= d install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application.= You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result in= real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.
 
This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on= 17.2kc/s.
 
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/= s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
 
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercis= e I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is get= ting better I will be able to get out working on the antenna.
 
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12= /13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about= 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be getting= very very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impra= ctical! Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector and of= f list there may be something I can try.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken= <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com><= BR>Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgDate: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05

Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX= here in Luton over the weekend if
that would help. I have been followi= ng this thread with interest, could you
put up some diagrams etc of you= r parallel capacitor and other antenna
configurations and formulae.
=
73.
Ken
M0KHW    IO91TV

-----Original Message--= ---
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 Februar= y 2010 21:14
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kH= z

Dear LF Group,

A couple of years ago I did some measuremen= ts of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m
long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, an= d also a near-identical antenna set up
in the middle of a field away= from trees and buildings. The attached graph
shows Rloss plotted agai= nst frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for
both antennas. At all= frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field
antenna is much lo= wer than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by
numerous small= trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close

to= the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was=

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At 10kHz, the open&= nbsp; field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the
home QTH an= tenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna= voltage increases
at lower frequencies for a given current) in both= cases. The text books say,

for electrically small antennas, that= dielectric losses will dominate at low

frequencies, while at high= frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause

resistance to st= art increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a
turn-over po= int might have been reached at a few hundred kHz.

The 50R figure su= ggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at
9kHz than= people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable
loa= ding coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF -=
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with= a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If yo= u tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar= inductance with a Q

of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capac= itance of
the antenna would definitely be useful...

Cheers, Jim= Moritz
73 de M0BMU


=20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB061-a6fc4b8aa62914f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:21:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A46D1380000FD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:21:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlmns-00079L-CK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlmnr-00079C-Le for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:39 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlmnb-0000ZR-25 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:39 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100228171903.BAUA4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:03 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlmnD-0002Es-SE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:00 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:18:55 -0000 Message-ID: <018001cab89a$1c193990$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Thread-Index: Acq4k7nGIEENA0QuT069AsCiAjadawABcuxw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=U3yr3vjJangA:10 a=xyUxglCxLFtfn4GjCZ4A:9 a=y_i88FsigkvcRBPuufEk8F5mMREA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b8aa6270a50 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Tim, I wouldn't worry, not many folks take Mal too seriously. He's a bit vexatious but it comes from being an ex-pat and having to live in Scarborough (good fish and chips though!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > > G3KEV > Snip > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur community. Tim M0AFJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj06.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.142]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b79338223d; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:44:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCA7E3800015D; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:44:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgzLv-0002xr-W7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgzLv-0002xi-IY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgzLt-0000vq-H8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXV00L1CSJF7H@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:42:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:42:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: <4B9E110D122F4106B8BE2D4DEDCB35EB@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <022B79181CFC4A0EB7964FE9BA4F6C9F@White> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0b4b7933802f45 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Marcus, the rec.is a ROHDE&SCHWARZ EK891,the antenne is a mod.minniwip I use speclab.v2.73B1 and then the multi-strip mode,and I lool between the intervals of the transmision on 136.317.4khz, henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Dear Henny, you seem to be doing a great job receiving on 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering whether you are just listening during TX breaks, or have special filtering in place to avoid receiver overloading and suppress transmitter noise? Either way, well done! Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: henny van elst Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM To: blacksheep Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2689 - Release Date: 02/15/10 07:35:00 --Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Marcus,
the rec.is a ROHDE&SCHWARZ EK891,= the antenne is=20 a mod.minniwip
I use speclab.v2.73B1 and then the mu= lti-strip=20 mode,and I lool between the intervals of the transmision on=20 136.317.4khz,
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 20= 10 11:46=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-0= 2.jpg

Dear Henny,
 
you seem to be doing a great job&nb= sp;receiving=20 on 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am=20 wondering whether you are just listening during TX breaks, or&n= bsp;have=20 special filtering in place to avoid receiver overloading and=20 suppress  transmitter noise? Either way, well done!
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg

Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu= met het=20 volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC=20 14-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beve= iliging=20 tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijla= gen niet=20 toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wil= t weten=20 hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.=20


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2689 - Re= lease=20 Date: 02/15/10 07:35:00
--Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b8a1acb209; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:27:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B997338000085; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NldWx-0001OB-69 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NldWw-0001O2-EZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:34 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl ([194.134.41.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NldWu-0006JU-66 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:34 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC3FA2B2 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp02.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: WPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b8a1ac921f3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lubos, same signal here also very strong,wpf very weak at about4:00z.Looked= like local qrm,but it isn't, 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2010 5:48 Aan: _RSGB_LF Onderwerp: LF: WPF Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crosse= d by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what= it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The sig= nal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 Lubos,
 
same signal=20 here also very strong,wpf very weak at about4:00z.Looked like local qr= m,but it=20 isn't,
 
73
 
Victor
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2010 5:48
Aan:<= /B>=20 _RSGB_LF
Onderwerp: LF: WPF

Hello LF!<= BR>I saw=20 good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crossed by= strange and=20 very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what it is? I sa= w the same=20 picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The signal was 30dB= up the=20 noise.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA104-86944b681f39343; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:48:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E7C653800010E; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcIAU-0005So-9T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcIAT-0005Sf-Mf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:45 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com ([209.85.220.210]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcIAR-00078n-2T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:45 +0000 Received: by fxm2 with SMTP id 2so1283868fxm.29 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:47:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Z8IAkWoMWKJ4QKuM35C4utdYyLObvuNUNX1RNmQATOk=; b=vB902XmIVGWZLJhQjRhiBPDw78dxwjCuBootsd0xrTxlCf38D4V3cDL50V7JUXWxrw 6F+Rsmh9GTY2ZGnOI7Weqj6CCsjmn0FM1RYF4ssooyw/Q1HH+PaJIzGYJV9cCBKQpMir w1HTSGSjqUmESctVb/VVGZnAbeQG8s6tvrOT8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mF04LW/cANSOtBoHE38pN5KYfIxpWJgz+kN6jALy+AG867oiPaB4Sb3b64XlSCbVIL TBopn7J0RV3MPxbvTh2HipGiZCU91dxIXRbX2YSOago0+HVZH7RlLIbi2vWwEfZxMjIk tWPDwQKaM/8OG5LuUFXX/epS0IhSursGe52Mg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.150.79 with SMTP id m15mr949494hbb.32.1265114856076; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:47:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:47:36 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b681f376800 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 An experimental system I tested for work a few years ago used the low cost optical components from RS, the HBR2404 and 1404 devices with polymer cable. This was for a remote wide band antenna with full galvanic isolation. Measurements suggested 60dB dynamic range was feasible and an anlogue bandwidth in excess of 200MHz from a discrete drive and the optiacl recevers own internal preamp. Noise figure wasn't a problem, but I do recall it being the the 'sub 10dB' region, adequate for hight HF through VHF. The 60dB dynamic range was not good enough for our HF bands requirements, so another route was taken , but when used with a high Q antenna over a limited band, should be quite adequate. The old analogue cable TV systems used fibre (to the street corner where it was turned directly into RF for the coax final run. Based on a few back-of-envelope calculations, at the bandwidth needed of 2GHz or so, must have had a total effective dynamic range in the 80dB region to avoid visible degradation on nearly 100 analogue TV signals. Andy www.g4jnt.com This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions On 2 February 2010 11:57, James Moritz wrote: > Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, > > If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer > fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres, > rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss > is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible > red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre > could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the > emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring > precision optical connectors. There is an overview at > http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN > > Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain > component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute > towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the > electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the > fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the > detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will > contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by > itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage > driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input > impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical > link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. > > Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical > link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also be > produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so the > principle is viable. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM > Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the > BF862 > > > Hi Stefan. >> 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm >> multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km... >> > > > --001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An experimental system I tested for work a few years ago used the low= cost optical components from RS, the HBR2404 and 1404 devices with polyme= r cable.=A0 This was for a remote wide band antenna with full galvanic iso= lation.=A0=A0 Measurements suggested 60dB dynamic range was feasible and= an anlogue bandwidth in excess of 200MHz from a discrete drive and the op= tiacl recevers own internal preamp.=A0=A0=A0 Noise figure wasn't a pro= blem, but I do recall it being the the 'sub 10dB' region, adequate= for hight HF through VHF.
=A0
The 60dB dynamic range was not good enough for our HF bands requireme= nts, so another route was taken , but when used with a high Q antenna over= a limited band, should be quite adequate.=A0
=A0
The old analogue cable TV systems used fibre (to the street corner wh= ere it was turned directly into RF for the coax final=A0run.=A0=A0Based on= a few back-of-envelope calculations, at the bandwidth needed=A0of 2GHz or= so, must have had a total effective dynamic range in the 80dB region to= avoid visible degradation on nearly 100 analogue TV signals.
=A0
=A0
Andy
www.g4jnt.com

Thi= s email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health and safet= y police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to health, but= may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions


On 2 February 2010 11:57, James Moritz <james.moritz= @btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group,
If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a= polymer fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few= metres, rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so= fibre loss is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago= used visible red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. Th= e plastic fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into= the emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requ= iring precision optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avago= tech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN

Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency ga= in component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute= towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the el= ectrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the= fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the= detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will= contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by it= self is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage= driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high inpu= t impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical= link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonab= ly low.

Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue opt= ical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will al= so be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously work= s, so the principle is viable.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


----- Original Message --= --- From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sen= ding the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862


Hi Stefan.
150dB/km, is a= very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre wa= s only 1 or 2dB /km...



--001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF074-8bf44b82ab8036d; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:06:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1109838000118; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njamd-0001to-Da for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njamc-0001tf-Vw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:18 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjamZ-0002nF-Tv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:18 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgoFAEE6gktcGO2M/2dsb2JhbACNDQONc3O8BYRrBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,518,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="428581979" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([92.24.237.140]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 16:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <004401cab3d8$c7b6bc30$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:04:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9 Kcs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b82ab795a38 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most are struggling on 137 Kcs to radiate a decent signal never mind= 9Kcs I would prefer some sort of elevated antenna even at that frequency fo= r long haul. G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most are struggling on 137 Kcs to rad= iate a decent=20 signal never mind 9Kcs
I would prefer some sort of elevated= antenna even=20 at that frequency for long haul.
 
 
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.28]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b84fdec35e; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:22:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3F43A380000AD; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEMb-0004my-5J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEMa-0004mp-M9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:04 +0000 Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEMY-0002TO-Ce for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:04 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.194]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1OAKnkE029376 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:20:49 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (unknown [92.9.230.245]) by mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 4DD89E000090 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:20:48 -0500 (EST) From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:20:38 +0000 Message-Id: <1267006838.5004.10.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c24b84fd80705c X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411c4b84fdeb13d7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Not that we should prolong this thread, Jim, but I have failed to consider the tax implications. Quite obviously, should your experiment prove so successful that it promoted a boom in foil sales, then our darling chancellor aided by the men in brown boots would juggle the balls on their abacus and after a straw poll impose yet another tax. Hmmm, time to bring back the house martin. LOL. 73 On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 19:30 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > Indeed! Only this afternoon after intercepting my post on the Echelon system > I received a call from the chief bully at No. 10 to advise me that such an > action could result in a modulation of global warming and so compromise > their plans for justification of future tax hikes in the name of the > environment. > > I was advised to go for a walk alone in the woods and take some paracetamol > and a blunt knife with me, just on the off chance that my regrets could make > me suicidal. > > Needless to say I declined the offer....got to go, there's some people at > the d > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of g4gvw > Sent: 23 February 2010 18:43 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: RE: LF: DATA > > James, > > I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be > reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation > of the factors affecting global warming! > > > > On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > > might join in. > > > > > > > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > > > > > > > Mal, > > > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > > weak signal techniques this time. > > > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > > wrote: > > > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > > stns. > > > > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > > any of these modes. > > > > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-da01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA012-86114b86fd7715f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:45:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 042BF3800008F; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkmQw-00006b-5P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkmQv-00006S-KT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:49 +0000 Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkmQs-0000eE-UF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:49 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.69]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1PMhY7a027967 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:43:34 -0500 Received: from White (g229121046.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.121.46]) by mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 3086EE0000E5 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:43:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:43:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29454b86fd137341 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b86fd756eab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise backgro= und at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my= regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m,= calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it= would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram wit= h moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impuls= ive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m refere= nced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). This seems lower than most of the figures quoted recently, including= Jim's measurement. There may have been some issues with my calibratio= n, but I don't think my figure would have been off by tens of dBs. Any= way I will try to repeat the measurement this weekend. Part of the dis= crepancy could be that published figures inevitably include the energy= of the distict spherics, which may well contribute the dominant part= of the average noise power. Empiricaly I found that some noise limiti= ng or blanking was essential to maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth rece= ption. Based on this figure for noise, a first calculation for Stefan's 100= m kite antenna predicted a reception range well over 200 km,. using= QRSS-30 at 21 mHz! So the dreamers may be in for a nice sunday surpri= se... Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: James Moritz=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:50 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Dear LF Group, As a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig= gen=20 into my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reve= rse"=20 arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum Lab= to=20 monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise bandwi= dth).=20 I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M" copy= =20 trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equivalen= t=20 field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say what th= e SNR=20 is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is probably= not a=20 million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field strength= about=20 25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this evening= is=20 particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andy Talbot" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area= of a=20 > 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda =3D 33333m, G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G =3D 1, so= A =3D > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise= =20 > density > Nd =3D is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQRT(Nd. 377) > =3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) > ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
sometime back in 2000 I attempted to= measure the=20 daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theori= e.html).=20 I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effecti= ve height=20 is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop,=20 and assuming that it would depend only little on= =20 frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and= placing=20 the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived= at=20 a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equ= ivalent to=20 142 dB kTo).
 
This seems lower than most of the fig= ures quoted=20 recently, including Jim's measurement. There may have been some issues= with my=20 calibration, but I don't think my figure would have been off by= tens of=20 dBs. Anyway I will try to repeat the measurement this weekend. Part of the discrepancy could be th= at published figures=20 inevitably include the energy of the distict spherics, which= may well=20 contribute the dominant part of the average noise power. Empiricaly&nb= sp;I found=20 that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to maximi= ze SNR for=20 narrow bandwidth reception.
 
Based on this figure for noise, = a first=20 calculation for Stefan's 100 m kite antenna predicted a reception= range=20 well over 200 km,. using QRSS-30 at 21 mHz! So the dreamers&= nbsp;may=20 be in for a nice sunday surprise...
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:50 PM
Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
=
Dear LF Group,

As=20 a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig ge= n
into=20 my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reverse"= =20
arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum= Lab to=20
monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise ba= ndwidth).=20
I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M"= copy=20
trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equiv= alent=20
field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say wha= t the SNR=20
is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is prob= ably not a=20
million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field stren= gth about=20
25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this eve= ning is=20
particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible=20 here.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




----= - Original=20 Message -----
From: "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org>
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9=20 Dreamers


> To get the V/m value from this, first calcula= te the=20 effective area of a
> 9kHz
> isotropic antenna :
>= At 9kHz,=20 lambda =3D 33333m,   G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2,   G = =3D 1,  =20 so  A =3D
> 88*10^6  m^2
>
> 1mW of noise= per Hz=20 bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise
> density
&= gt; Nd =3D=20 is  1.1E-11 W/m^2
> Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQ= RT(Nd.=20 377)
> =3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,    or 65uV/= (ROOT=20 Hz)
>


------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.93]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD073-8b8e4b805307389; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:24:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 43D8E380000A5; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwmz-0003HY-Uq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwmz-0003HP-JO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Niwmx-0001ax-0L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EE07B8047 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70E331E702 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:06 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:19:48 +0100 Thread-Topic: TF on 500kHz Thread-Index: AQHKsnLANzO8Gj+UE0W9xiryMFL/zw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: TF on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b24b8053064fd8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear all, I just received following information from TF2JB: Yesterday, February 19, 2010 The Post and Telecom Administration in Icelan= d granted a temporary experimental access to the 600 meter band in Iceland= . The permit is valid until December 31, 2010.=20 Frequency span: 493-510 kHz. Access is granted on secondary basis. CW only= . Power limit is 100 W. Licensees need to apply to the PTA for a special license. The experimental= license is open to both =93N=94 and =93G=94 license classes. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB103-864c4b693f9cb7; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:19:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3F845380001ED; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcbN7-0001zx-Ji for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcbN7-0001zo-1m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcbN5-0005hQ-SU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203091757.VVPC10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:17:57 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcbMz-0005Wd-Dj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:17:57 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:17:56 -0000 Message-ID: <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqkqqE87o5tdBlzRqq0ViMIqgkZDgABPbcg X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MKpu1BcztJtq89k3sgwA:9 a=p8T0Gi0TwNHPtLGaL-kA:7 a=pF4BK828eBjfRlUibzd_Mi89KCUA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b693f9b49bc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Rik/LF That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and others in D/F. Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better support away from trees! Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the local ground wave signals collapse Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more so than the output at the tx end My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to 2000km or so. If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about 20mW. At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with him, receiving a 559 report. Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.133]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD014-8b774b6f2c7582; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:11:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03A96380001C0; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEOK-00051l-72 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEOJ-00051c-QQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEOH-0004AV-Hj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4311647bwz.29 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=m+I8BAcH/NSp8Ph9KvdTS88uJjDIujMMeqpMluNFqfw=; b=F0NSx7CniXBAvFyPmR58qnWzenvpWzCJMFtAw7m+bt308QyIn2PQhcBc2E5jwJlQZc E55PSKdT9kZESClN9CVm+wimgs2j6LXMMNKkKOiNT5zHI9w+uG02PHL0a2LF2er0cE64 Aj4BO1ffCMBQ3js58rTlN5c/6AAhQlnDhnQOE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=xSDLxdERgLLkWPR3N3jjcEMIXecP7nk+X+A0OjaEOdWhZ9AUoqAP84ahro4cYGoZGx DUJlfRIKEIiX5XS3HxlCIV9aCCIJL1EXcKL2HjHNdscTgLNkaETJHt6uf4q6u4T+F8EQ jWVG9/JBc/5GSSc2ghx26f4c2YeALQDQLMBQc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.151.216 with SMTP id d24mr417027bkw.1.1265576994428; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> References: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:09:54 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40854b6f2c73358f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes. Odd that. Increased spectrogram noise reading when it ought to be filtered out I suspect the spectrogram is not a simple power level indication. SpecJT appears to be more of a CFAR indication and the WSPR one may be not-dissimilar in concept. Andy www.g4jnt.com > Doing this also produces a lot of false decodes - the spectrogram display > in WSPR shows a couple of broad, bright, noise-like bands where the > passband-stopband transitions of the audio filter occur, with assorted > spectral lines that are probably low-level noise from one PC or another. I > have often noticed the number of false decodes goes up when there are > narrow- --0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes.
Odd that.
Increased spectrogram noise reading when it ought to be filtered out<= /div>
=A0
I suspect the spectrogram is not a simple=A0power level indication.= =A0=A0 SpecJT appears to be more of a CFAR indication and the WSPR one may= be not-dissimilar in concept.
Doing this also produces a lot= of false decodes - the spectrogram display in WSPR shows a couple of broa= d, bright, noise-like bands where the passband-stopband transitions of the= audio filter occur, with assorted spectral lines that are probably low-le= vel noise from one PC or another. I have often noticed the number of false= decodes goes up when there are narrow-
--0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b6f303e2c; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:27:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 668CF38000188; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEeK-0005Qa-Ng for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEeK-0005QQ-Cv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeI-0004LY-Ax for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100207212624.XZYT1847.mta31.charter.net@imp11>; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:26:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.189.74.84]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id f9SQ1d00J1p78xe059SQdv; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:26:24 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=dP3sN3LoM_3TeetiCdIA:9 a=0dezn4KVOE74HY57Jl_bwgntNYMA:4 Message-ID: <4B6F3092.6070506@charter.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:28:50 -0500 From: John Andrews User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, & UK) and MedFer bands" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: WD2XES WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b6f303d673b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) WD2XES is running in WSPR mode on 137.450 kHz (dial frequency 136.000 USB) until 0330 UTC. The "30 dBm" refers to 1 watt ERP. Reports are welcome. John, W1TAG/WD2XES FN42ch From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.77]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB081-85f44b8398722e5; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:57:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0E0C03800009B; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:57:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqZ7-0008DI-Oy for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqZ7-0008D9-Ds for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqZ5-0000rR-Nh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8v5H5009753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:06 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8v5xl009750 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:05 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:05 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604d4b8398703221 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) If you are considering beaconing at 9kHz SpectrumLab has a nice "digomode terminal" that can be used as a beacon. the frequency can be whatever your sound card can generate (over 20kHz with a 48ks/s sound card), spectrum lab is also nice for reception. without modifications wspr and laserscatter use frequencies which are too low. jacek From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB043-86464b67ed9d4; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:17:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 59B0F3800010D; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEru-0004XT-JX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEru-0004XK-7h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcErq-0005X3-Rp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX700549J30BE@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:16:13 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:16:09 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XGJ 02-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b67ed9b6749 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA)" --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Warren,LF Capture XGJ,strong signal, best 73s henny cpm. Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XGJ 02-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Warren,LF
Capture XGJ,strong signal,
best 73s
henny cpm.
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XGJ 02-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA)-- --Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="XGJ 02-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="XGJ 02-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABYA2gDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIBAwUGBwQI/8QAGAEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAePWJPqxF9LEMy6NWWQsECss5S1NtRKe ikUQLaniHI0lXUmu6qPV56rBWWY9fp3fvHO/Kh9V8pzeVv2vJ2fPr95zkvzTHZPbXEl+j+fp y473s0vzAn1Xq1nz/PckOFz9Tcsl5Ydm6MfK0fVWmVwme862nJn+kMzL8pR2LJxwyzpL1zFP pTMnynivsH5V3MI6PuJDPE1TNQSwMtdTKTlZCNViwlSNENZXGjVrbklsJU21MLEqWRAFc2xD QukQzwv0N88fQ3K74Bx0AAAfHY6+rErYtEowrU25qzZXYEwTdSVEy4jKwJLCXVIXQil1FqjV 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MAILINDB043-86464b89114c17a; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D8CD8380000ED; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlLqI-0007aK-UU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlLqI-0007aB-IQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlLqF-0004Yt-IZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1RCWE7u010884 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:32:15 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00233 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:00 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:32:17 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b89114a7315 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed specially for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite antenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical, does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT voltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE063-5eb84b7183d623b; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:48:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 52862380001C3; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NesIg-0003oA-29 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NesIf-0003o1-Hr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:53 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NesIc-0002Np-Uv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:53 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o19Fkf8M008646 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:46:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:46:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: DX on 600m Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b7183d4458b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 To all, This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a couple of nights. 73, Albert PA0A From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-md09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD091-8b944b6f5495374; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:02:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15BD438000050; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeH3c-0006br-SF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeH3c-0006bi-Dy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeH3a-00059J-5f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Feb 2010 00:00:43 -0000 Received: from p5DC4357C.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.196.53.124] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 08 Feb 2010 01:00:43 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+Jd+lkRj6JV9j+30RYUyuJAGEc/eStK0qUOdPlSG A5o0IemmRl7ebr Message-ID: <00a701caa851$c231ee70$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Clemens" To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:00:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.56999999999999995,0.56999999999999995 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b6f5493491b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy, thanks for confirming that. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:20 PM Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported= by some stations=20 recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct link= using a range of Rx=20 bandwidths and input signal levels. The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz,= the reported S/N=20 increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in st= eps of 500Hz so=20 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to sho= w the effect. Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but th= e results can be=20 summarised as : ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want ar= tificially high SNR=20 reports ----------------------- 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see th= e full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2673 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 7/10 08:22:00 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,
 
thanks for confirming that.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 7:20=20 PM
Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests

To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of  S/= N reported=20 by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements= over a=20 direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.<= /DIV>
 
The results were dramatic.  With receive bandwidths= less than=20 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.   It was= only=20 possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with= the=20 SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect.
 
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf =20 but the results can be summarised as :
 
-------------   Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unl= ess you=20 want artificially high SNR reports  =20  -----------------------
 
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to= see the=20 full noise band is OK.


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2673 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/07/10=20 08:22:00
------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b74531f3ca; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3E95C380004D6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfeDB-0001A2-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfeDB-00019t-0f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:25 +0000 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com ([209.85.217.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfeD8-0004Km-9X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:24 +0000 Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so1255233gxk.4 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CKRdOuHZx8NCf9gdy1Rv1RKu5Nh73bw/AfIWXx0R77c=; b=b7xHXNgyFhiljXQXZWuH1TB3vzVP1Ci9bGCeuMb7TOTafUJWVPlWXP2+Muo6EYADOA 9Te5BvV9gZev26KbD63ybs2NBzm/ceb+PiR3n4KpV+tFnK8NodNLEi1g91vZ24ic/DpI BmteXuNem0zBFqKktXmo/Oe1NXfYksagff8sY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iWWZxcc6awVhlnu9+lTJb86P7BvMm6CWtQ9Q5fjzGGvlN5TNkQOwGpA1ZY8ky9Ya20 2d83svP2T7jX0oaY6LiogkbEpVTm2wrwobLRG7iwgO2ycNll1HlCSES0YqFrq/XmdH0/ wiYIffABCP6yKifbFufs9pZMWszuCy7JGb7F4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.20.33 with SMTP id 33mr503509agt.110.1265914574594; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:14 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002111056v4ac7d7eftac518fb43bc30b0b@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Peter M0FMT DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m254.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b7453193922 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Thanks Dennis, RX signals in 2007/8 (?) were by ear and was using LF reflector to ask for xband qso. I was TX abt 3.535 80m. I thought the 500kHz stations were pretty loud (was 100mW ERP back then), and the band noise was very low. Easier than 160m and as I am a qrp op weak signals sort of go with the territory >60% of the time as using some crummy antenna /P so you listen a bit more? Got some WAV files of the stations I heard from those days and the xband qso somewhere... I think most were amongst my first 100 cw qso hihi. Although included on the NoV application doubt will use WSPR as not a beacon man although I think a qso mode sort of exists. The fun bit will probably be obtaining some field strength measurements (got a helper lined up) with a home brew meter in the 1-10 mile range from the station using a mobile phone.Might be interesting to see the difference as the wx changes. 72 Dom M1KTA On 11 February 2010 17:22, DENNIS EASTERLING wrote: > Hi Dominic > > Congrats. on getting your NOV for 600m. =A0 I understand that you have= been > receiving OK, if so you are halfway there as the sigs are so weak compar= ed > with noise. =A0 I use various loops and a PA0RDT mini-whip for receiving= . The > latter seems to be the best all round solution for me. =A0 My TX antenna= is a > 'T' type 10m vertical (though zig-zags a bit before entering the shack)= with > a 19.5m top (longest I can get in my garden). =A0 Using a =A0GW3EUP tx= running > just over 20w, I can qso Finbar in Derry Ireland, and have been reported= by > a German listener in Cuxhaven. > > 73 Dennis M0JXM > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Baines" > > To: "rsgb lf group" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM > Subject: LF: New NoV > > >> Hi all, >> >> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. >> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. >> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso >> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. >> Will focus on CW initially. >> >> 72 >> >> Dom >> M1KTA >> > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-b5134b8913d533c; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:45:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AA560380000BA; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM1O-0007mi-5o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM1N-0007mZ-QW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:49 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlM1K-0004e6-Tz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:49 +0000 Received: (qmail 17003 invoked by uid 507); 27 Feb 2010 13:43:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 13:43:32 +0100 Message-ID: <201002271343370718.11AF488E@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: References: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> <377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:43:37 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8913d345bf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 History repeats itself. In the early days of radio, amateurs were allocat= ed "200m and down" with the comment that "they won't be able to get out of= their backyards with that". When it became clear that HF was useful for long distances, a similar phil= osophy seems to have been applied to VHF and upwards. And so on. 73, John F5VLF *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27/02/2010 at 11:24 Rik Strobbe wrote: >Warren , Pete, > >when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur >segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the bi= g >telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would transmi= t >there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be able to get >any further than the other end of the town. >It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town= ;-) > >73, Rik ON7YD >________________________________ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.10]) by air-me10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME103-8bc74b6f04de5f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:22:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F346B3800035A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBkZ-000385-9D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBkY-00037w-LZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:50 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeBkW-0002YV-Cb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:50 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4237022bwz.29 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:20:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Yf/L1qOnSNpIBD2P1uSm6dTV8L4232kxkpA/eVo8nrA=; b=aZpSHRXYLHeK1fovIK498rWYxUPi0dB/MdRVV9oEKCVJIiv2QkkjiW6IVuzvN1Zs3Q jiyGsCfV2lr4lhRbMwnuLrRjxh94EmynQcHAQRADwdR5mNYJ7lsw11gK+renF++3yvWK soAjB+ECyuPYltEdmyuOf6uwkbDB1GuyWq7lM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=pRDpJfOgAlTjfMmmQIMRYcu0BAft7Zco1wWELSeJ0H4zQ/o7pFbBAo0RgdIDNCxKF+ g17AIgemUz89lguD0VAPNSvF0/sF3X9uwY3u77zE4bBflpMadbfHF6/Sk/zIhgFytuXh iNHxyePfd7uL4/0GcxwILItRxwrQp5kIyWRDA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.135 with SMTP id l7mr3857401bkd.57.1265566842349; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:20:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:20:42 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600a4b6f04dc4c18 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect. Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but the results can be summarised as : ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want artificially high SNR reports ----------------------- 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com --000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of=A0 S/N reporte= d by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over= a direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.
=A0
The results were dramatic.=A0 With=A0receive bandwidths less than 300= Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.=A0=A0 It was only possible to= use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ=A0but= these were more than enough to show the effect.
=A0
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf=A0 but the results can be= summarised as :
=A0
-------------=A0=A0 Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you= want artificially high SNR reports=A0=A0 =A0-----------------------
=A0
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the= full noise band is OK.
--000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.224]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA011-b4ef4b87adce70; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:17:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3CCBC380000C8; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:17:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkyAw-0004Of-0D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkyAv-0004OW-Ko for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:05 +0000 Received: from psmtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkyAt-0004HT-8u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:05 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYG007154MIYP@psmtp04.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:15:55 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:15:47 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <6767981B8A374230941D2D85449FBCBD@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 26-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55535 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40e04b87adcc0ee4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg)" --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,All capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 26-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,All
capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 26-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg)-- --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 26-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 26-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABKAq4DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAUABgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH5NCj9EjZrvZqj4hViGSCkpVlsJcFC Iz0gMGExZmo52CDsHVHitlt0xZInAW7MiWw5Q9TZCsS3BJuUQalymXZXSVME5OuUcphI0qs1 6aVuUFgWMGQRyjIYxK4WcvBwta70TmdMD57MiYXhLUMUNTIkmYS56WETW6JkjCR1THOsSepI MefF1bGymzXDNhcsDsVrWeifAsovUG5iNZFprmyYWZhQaeZzWonpWkrKwgvMGtVKyjnwd1nG i5iEBsiGNiOF6CQQFCAOU4E2Ma7VdFbSbNZ6M6UEXHVStRiorBWrF6ItkGxEjTsQByLx8WI2 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gxYBe183xMKWVb9TqYixveMAFSROrHL2Iru47DdORL7wYhQTWEFH24m+2auLIoTq/wCCgObi kMQKn25ywjEKoObtf8HFepw5NQEdMW/8m63es6MIwDXbLiL6xM3x0awDQu/PrKmms2JicMxi ot6uc8Oc5fThwZpLVzoxI4oxx7xqitz9+PCQOC48mNJKc4kEZnJjChRozjEo13hSVlavjKmx mcr1xNBdefea661iXlcOTHCAIXmOE4R85M9BUxMa85XvgFQKaL6z+HOWNNVMrbW4lFLvrnJj znFiebtn4795q5r/AAfowm8QSOurhx951POfszlzgxYBJwLGrVXfOcX1hFEenNhHXVxHVEql I4gKq3q5z5qhrZiLq7cuKEV95zc//9k= --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.141]) by air-md05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD051-8b844b859dffba; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:45:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 840C638000057; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:45:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkP27-0007f6-4U for 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X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:39:37 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1c0Tdt+CPeRuXRIm/g9mG0LD/RAAJpee1 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b859df739fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexander, > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm > 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss= (due to trees, house e.t.c.). I agree, that's why I had the quotes arround "Ground loss". > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the= losses. It will increse loss:-) I am not sure about that. Assuming the Q of both loading coils is identica= l and the TX is matched to the impedance "seen" at the loading coil I woul= d expect no difference in loss. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com] Verzonden: donderdag 25 februari 2010 1:02 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems > > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm > 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.). > The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-) > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the > losses. It will increse loss:-) > But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a > 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more > convenient value. True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway. I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m (difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100 km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise). Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right. But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate resistance on lamda=3D30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=3D1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part)= . 1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-( Regards, Alexander/RA9MB --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Alexander,

> "Ground loss" at my QTH:
> 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm
> 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm
I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss= (due to trees, house e.t.c.).

I agree, that's why I had the quotes arround "Ground loss".

 

> Regarding the par= allel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the losses.
It will increse loss:-)

I am not sure about that. Assuming the Q of both loading coils is ident= ical and the TX is matched to the impedance "seen" at the loadin= g coil I would expect no difference in loss.

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T



________________________________________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 25 februari 2010 1:02
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems

>
> if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of= more than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me.
> "Ground loss" at my QTH:
> 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm
> 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm

I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment'
loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.).

> The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure)

I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF
frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on<= br> HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-)

> Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce= the
> losses.

It will increse loss:-)

> But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a
> 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a= more
> convenient value.

True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway.

I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not
quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small
radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m
(difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can
achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100<= br> km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise).
Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right.

But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate
resistance on lamda=3D30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=3D1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part)= .
1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without<= br> trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-(


Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB

--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.170]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b86664734f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:00:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7E34B3800005B; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcMi-0002qs-2m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcMh-0002qj-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:47 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcMf-00041T-04 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:47 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBwiXr030405 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:44 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:43 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:43 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDDAACmjIw= References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.114826 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413" Subject: LF: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55494 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400cded44b86663d355b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz ra= nge? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters= are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this= frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving?= There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for so= me tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAEgAAAFZMRiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbHM/ ABgGAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkADAA6ACsABABxAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAwAOgArAAQAcQEBCYAB ACEAAAA5MDA2RkJDQjhERDkyQjQ0ODUwQUU4NzUxQ0I2QzAzNwBBBwEDkAYArAsAADgAAAADADYA AAAAAEAAOQAT5NPgEbbKAR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhT VDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTE1ODQzWi0xMTEyAAAAHgBJAAEAAAAJAAAAQVc6IDlr SHoAAAAAQABOALcIj5QNtsoBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3No ZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9s Zl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwBTTVRQAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVl cC5vcmcAAAIBXAABAAAAKAAAAFNNVFA6T1dORVItUlNHQl9MRl9HUk9VUEBCTEFDS1NIRUVQLk9S RwAeAF0AAQAAAA8AAABTdGVmYW4gU2No5GZlcgAAAgFeAAEAAABJAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A 3QEPVAIAAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAU01UUABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRl AAAAAAIBXwABAAAAIgAAAFNNVFA6U0NIQUVGRVJASFNULlRVLURBUk1TVEFEVC5ERQAAAB4AZgAB AAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBnAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgBoAAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAGkAAQAAAB0AAABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFy bXN0YWR0LmRlAAAAAB4AcAABAAAAEgAAAFZMRiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbHM/AAAAAgFxAAEAAAAgAAAA Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDDAACmjIweAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3Vw QGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwBAAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAABIA AABWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAAIBCRABAAAA6wMAAOcDAABbCAAATFpGdcbDRa0DAAoAcmNw ZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMwPwEDAfcKgAKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKA/xADAFAEVghVB7IR1Q5R AwHdENcyBgAGwxHVMwRGENlvEusR4wjvCfc7GM8OMDU7EdIMYGMAUAsJAWQzNpMRYAulNCAQAipc DrIDAZAOEDkgPEhUTUBMIGRpcj0eMHI8Pn0d8wAhAzAfQWRv5wDgH0EKsVxxGLAfQRDwbwMwH6UR YB2rMx2AHqBF3EFEH3AdrArjICOvJL8FDhA2DvA8TUVUQQggbmEHgD1HRU6ARVJBVE9SIAWgYwIw CfB0PSIF4B6zOOAuMDAuNxzgKeAnIFA0OTAiI500J0EvXyNfHlAU8CX/HlA1EWA8cEJPRFkjnRzx LV9nRDk2HpBESVYe9iAIaWQ9MjBPV0FSAmULUHlUZXh0Nvg4ODYfeQAAIKUhQyEBnyGZHckqYDOa IbdXaA3geyGABaBtB4AhYAcxHas4wR2AJm5ic3ACgB+YDCdhAUAht1ZMRiBzH1AAcW1pAkAEkAQg YzMDkQDQdHUHQDLgIGKEZSAY0GNlaXYJgBMyIAOgdGg94DEwawxIej3wAHBnZT8g3lQ+0BjQMiAE IG0bgCGAjmwEACjgPnd3ZWI9wO51BUA+kgdzdz/jPsERMGc8LArAPeBzaEHhIGB37z0hPZA+sUAy YT2zB0AY0LxhZD2wBvA+cEDQdQEgui44AW9AIj4EC4BnPoSTQDEDUGVxClBuYz2w2RjQZ2kCID0w bj5wPQJ7KOBFIXVEEUjJSeI+wlO+TiiQPtFAMQDQOCBlSAKfP7ZEM0dgA4E9sE9NQoLxR2B3YXQh cT7CO/IRML89UAWxSeIRAD5QJ7BvRVH7SCEgYG5BcTyQIYA8AUuk10AxCcAIYHBHIFAEkBEA/nAE IDyQU7IDkTIwRkA8IM9HYD1BPkBPIGUvBGBU9P0+sm1IwAWxThAHgEpRQND8cyxUkguABQBGQEMy PtEcUlg8wgEAAIF0eS5/HckBwB+HCqIfhwpxHaww/SMhLzFxH3layB2cL+8w/98fWzQ/NU82Xzdp TUWwPdH7U8JSsW8EcFSSOHEKsU3y91ahWEA98HAAIFOhPqJPIPtJZUcgQkHiUbFFITxAPsH/BcBF 4lTiRfEFQD7CPDsDUccCMFDhB+A7LSlZL1o//1tPXF9db15/X49gn2GvYr//Y89k3zkfOi87Om1f bm9vf/9wj3Gfcq9zv3TPdd9273f/NXkPUyjgZgBwgHBLN/xGQ3z/fg9/H4AvgT8t2e44K8Euvy0B NyvCHsEfcAJ9kqAAHgA1EAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4 MkExQjFCQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAB4A ORABAAAAuAAAADwwMDFjMDFjYWI1NzUkNmJiYjA0NjAkMDQwMWE4YzBAeHBoZDk3eGdxMjdueWY+ IDwyMDEwMDIyNTA5NDg0Ni5FQTg1NTMxRTcwMkBzbXRwczAxLmt1bGV1dmVuLmJlPiA8MzhBNTFC NzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFCMTlARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRl Y2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAeAEcQAQAAAA8AAABtZXNzYWdlL3JmYzgyMgAACwDyEAEA AAAfAPMQAQAAADAAAABWAEwARgAgAHQAZQBzAHQAIABzAGkAZwBuAGEAbABzACUAMwBGAC4ARQBN AEwAAAALAPYQAAAAAEAABzC49bsuELbKAUAACDDFqNjgEbbKAQMA3j+vbwAAAwDxPwcEAAAeAPg/ AQAAAA8AAABTdGVmYW4gU2No5GZlcgAAAgH5PwEAAABcAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIB AAAAAAAAAC9PPUhTVC9PVT1FUlNURSBBRE1JTklTVFJBVElWRSBHUlVQUEUvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5U Uy9DTj1TQ0hBRUZFUgAeAPo/AQAAABUAAABTeXN0ZW0gQWRtaW5pc3RyYXRvcgAAAAACAfs/AQAA AB4AAAAAAAAA3KdAyMBCEBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAAAAAALgAAAAMA/T/kBAAAAwAZQAAAAAADABpA AAAAAAMAHUAAAAAAAwAeQAAAAAAeADBAAQAAAAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADFAAQAAAAkAAABT Q0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADJAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AAAeADNAAQAAAB0AAABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlAAAAAB4AOEABAAAACQAA AFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AOUABAAAAAgAAAC4AAAADAHZA/////wsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAAAAADAAYQ ofHiOQMABxD0AQAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFdISUNIQ09NTUVSQ0lBTFZM RlRSQU5TTUlUVEVSU0NBTkFDVFVBTExZQkVSRUNFSVZFRElOVEhFMTBLSFpSQU5HRT9USEVSRUlT TVVDSExJU1RFRElOVEhFV0VCQlVUSU5USU0AAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3 NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQjFCQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1 LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAO4u ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6ed6723c5; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:04:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 55486380001A6; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne8et-0002h4-30 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne8es-0002gv-OB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:46 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s37.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne8eq-0001ZH-JM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:46 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W13 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s37.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:02:38 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [70.241.49.5] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:02:38 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 15:02:38.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[9691AD00:01CAA806] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_" Subject: LF: V01NA X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b6ed6707244 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_" --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe. =20 Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma=20 PA0RDT R75 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe.
 
Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma
PA0RDT R75

Your E-mail and More On-the-= Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_-- --_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_ Content-Type: image/pjpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="na.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABmAbQDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b86821c4f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 863E338000106; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkeDb-0004Is-3N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkeDa-0004Ij-MP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:30 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkeDY-0005Cx-3I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:30 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1PDvEwW098920 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:57:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:02 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b86821b49c9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Andy, The equivelent length is 30 cm, representing about 2-3 pF. The buffer amp is using a J310 with a 1.5 M gate resistor. Using bootstrap techniques, one can achieve a very low input capacitance. However this results in even more signal and noise output, especially at VLF. So it is not used here. 73, Roelof From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD014-86a94b82f7172f5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:28:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6425C38000086; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:28:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njfor-0004lV-BF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njfor-0004lM-0u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:57 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfop-0005Xz-B2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:56 +0000 Received: from [212.54.42.139] (helo=smtp8.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfoo-00055q-Jd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=[192.168.0.103]) by smtp8.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfoo-0007AL-39 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 +0100 Message-ID: <4B82F6D9.4080509@casema.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:53 +0100 From: Willem de Roode User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njfoo-0007AL-39 X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-3.899, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, CM_META_TB_NOARR 0.50) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b82f7161671 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 2122 -25 -1.1 0.503893 0 G7NKS IO92 17 73s willem pa3ego From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA033-863b4b868af93ab; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:36:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 61443380079DA; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkeob-0004ee-8S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkeoa-0004eV-Qk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:44 +0000 Received: from thsmsgxrt11p.thalesgroup.com ([192.54.144.134]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkeoX-0005Yw-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:44 +0000 Received: from thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (unknown [10.33.231.5]) by thsmsgxrt11p.thalesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F70D489070 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales (10.33.231.33) by thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (8.5.103) id 4B0E9ABB00BB5778 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Received: from (unknown [10.33.231.1]) by thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales with smtp id 1d61_a1b0_05e30bf2_221b_11df_a50f_0013725f4d82; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Received: from nodalthc2.clb.tcfr.thales (unknown [10.33.8.66]) by thsmsgirt11p.corp.thales (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DEF59802F for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: by nodalthc2.clb.tcfr.thales with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Message-ID: From: Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b868af703f5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan =20 The two lowest frequencies in use are presently: =20 - 11.904 kHz (RSDN-20 network, a russian navigation VLF system with transmitters located in Novosibirsk, Krasnodar, etc) =20 - 82 Hz (ZEVS system, an ELF transmitter located on the Kola peninsula and dedicated to strategic transmissions with russian nuclear submarines ) =20 I receive both stations here near Paris with an E-field receiver consistin= g of a home-brew receiver fitted with a FET/BJT front end and a 1m long cylinder vertical antenna =20 Regards =20 Jean-Louis F6AGR _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitte= rs are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stephan
 
The two lowest frequencies in use are=20 presently:
 
- 11.904 kHz (RSDN-20 network, a russian= navigation VLF=20 system with transmitters located in Novosibirsk, Krasnodar,=20 etc)
 
- 82 Hz (ZEVS system, an ELF transmi= tter located on=20 the Kola peninsula and dedicated to strategic transmissions with russian= nuclear=20 submarines )
 
I receive both stations here near Paris= with an E-field=20 receiver consisting of a home-brew receiver fitted with a FET/BJT fro= nt end=20 and a 1m long cylinder vertical antenna
 
Regards
 
Jean-Louis F6AGR

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stefan= =20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:59 PM
To:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: VLF test=20 signals?

Which commercial VLF transmi= tters can=20 actually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web= but=20 in times where these transmitters are shut down all this may be already= old=20 stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequ= ency=20 and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sec= tor=20 and have nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to= =20 activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density.
Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region.= But i=20 will rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-)
 
Stefan/DK7FC
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF062-8bee4b87d11c2da; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:48:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14D43380000E1; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl0Wz-0005Sm-52 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl0Wy-0005Sd-OG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:00 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl0Ww-0005bC-1R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:00 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 690171C0008F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 451D11C00092 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id CBDE91C0008F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:48 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226134648835.CBDE91C0008F@mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:46:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b87d11a3c06 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' discussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? > > Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not > extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for > nothing.... > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >> >>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>> received >>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >> >> [...] >>> >>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>> as >>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>> Act >>> 2006. [...] >> >> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >> continent >> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >> radio >> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >> strengths >> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority >> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >> usually >> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >> >> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >> ask >> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >> will >> need a license for that" clause. >> >> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or >> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you >> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >> >> VY 73 >> >> Jacek / SQ5BPF >> >> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.139]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE043-5eb04b6dd90c1a4; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:03:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AAAFF38000102; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndrme-0006GN-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndrme-0006GE-Eq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([199.185.220.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndrmb-0006pM-GD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes25.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100206210134.XGGN3729.priv-edtnes25.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:01:34 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 77F5B2E26BE2B413 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:01:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:34 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: Canada LEGAL on 2200m. Its open season boys! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608b4b6dd90a599a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) The following comments where provided by VE3IQ from RAC HQ. 73 Scott VE7TIL -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: 2200m and beyond... Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:30:51 -0500 From: James G. Dean Reply-To: jgdean@sympatico.ca To: Scott Tilley References: <4B6D2572.1020902@telus.net> Hi Scott: Good to hear from you. You are right, with children the priorities do have to shift. Enjoy him while you can; they seem to grow up too quickly. Our oldest grandchild just turned 20 and it seems like anohter era is passing us old folks by. Yes, we can now use 2200 metres. In December 2009, Industry Canada promulgated the revised Canadian Table of Frequency Allocations, which embodies the changes resulting from WRC-2007. It includes the Amateur service as a Secondary service in the band 135.7 - 137.8 kHz, subject to Footnote 5.67A. The footnote says: "Stations in the amateur service using frequencies in the band 135.7-137.8 kHz shall not exceed a maximum radiated power of 1 W (e.i.r.p.) and shall not cause harmful interference to stations of the radionavigation service operating in countries listed in No. 5.67. (WRC-07)". A copy of the Table is attached. It took time and effort, but we got there. I checked with IC and they advised that with the promulgation of the revised table, it is in force. The appropriate schedules in RBR-4 will be revised in due course. We will get a notice drafted up for the May/June issue of TCA. So, go ahead and use the band. Would be interested to hear what luck you have. I advised Joe of this a day or two ago, so I guess he has gotten active. Great to see. 73, Jim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-ma07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA074-b52f4b865c7088; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:18:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B096A380000DA; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbhy-00023p-9A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbhx-00023g-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:41 +0000 Received: from smtp829.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkbhv-0003Ss-J9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:41 +0000 Received: (qmail 38770 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=qyvZObmnP3mEv+CN1JB0OZgjz7FDLhLCCSS+VIA/cjYbAAguVgDPXxtUon3+0cHDbNVhFaLdupo9gBzM4VE7Dr7Ex7rlXzN3wmLKJeK1rI1wctCErSXxsFDZALqTai1P4/yc6eJhNt78k5cn3noY/azcEHg7Bli7Hl57Ct2NUlE= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267096593; bh=QAxzBilUcwPl6epBiF6pBXE4hzt3U0smhBftZlXl43s=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=V+GmbDXjGNTkamaApn3wXCHk/Jku1cABMVUna2zRpqVF2jJGZH+d7O7zo/6/ej48xJ+o+7fXvA+nz9pWKnQSj3TSSmmA4adKtUzt4OJuU28T8QwxMFdQltL1Pmga3iFrWFDDUDYFsGJFxQwSFudfPxDomHgAk4BIH4kuCS1qIUg= Received: from IBM7FFA209F07C (c.ashby435@86.169.135.218 with login) by smtp829.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: .u8e2g.swBByWKjbpA3lR6Fw.2ZEQrJJpVsTSrpXLCffsPaCEMY- X-YMail-OSG: PpLXYJkVM1nP_Cldbxs4G16NBpzWjQjqljjka1m4uBLy4jc1yzZfCYNE9zoIa.3QW2KMImqtlKhmQviaumd63MXvdLJ6dSgdeNl3YrHbufmJHQJmVID7oLkZfY_OI7nOy8fQ9zwStb2PKPV7qxOX156Wo47EpkmKkGm7xzulWYZ7I8P11Qp.NQMeQW8ji0ti42u0vgnU91TiPe9Cj.fyYeAXEHbAaU1x3E4mv.O8XuoKtS1viQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> From: "Chris" To: References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d221.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b865c6c7118 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wire into your sound card'. Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic so= cket and install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You= then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result= in real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.=20 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2= kc/s. It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.= 8125kc/s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this= exercise I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the we= ather is getting better I will be able to get out working on the anten= na. Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m= and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil ab= out 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be getting= very very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally= impractical! Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector= and off list there may be something I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over= the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with inte= rest, could you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and othe= r antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Jam= es Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of th= e 10m high, 40m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical= antenna set up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The= attached graph=20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz= to 600kHz for=20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of th= e open-field=20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is su= rrounded by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m gr= ound rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around= both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against= 380R for the=20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with= frequency -=20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna vo= ltage increases=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The= text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will= dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will= eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open fie= ld antenna, a=20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz= . The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actual= ly be higher at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field= site. A suitable=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was= around 350pF -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around= 0.7H with a Q of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If= you tolerated=20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar ind= uctance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading= capacitance of=20 the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wi= re into your=20 sound card'.
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT=
Sent: Thursday, February 25,= 2010 10:38=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_= 8.79=20 kHz


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD084-86b04b6f2fbb2b1; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:25:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AEB553800013D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:25:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEby-0005MP-Fj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEbx-0005MG-SH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:09 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEbu-0004Jr-Dg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:09 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4677196pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=68AyTTRjAzT8uPslfzUCMKHUfFTI7RddVVvcWrb7AkE=; b=LxYGoXIOfmEKRPSM001m6ogLkwM8c1lRVwpD2wJlSWfrnwzRKhqmzqYB4xdesOBYaI +pMgwXQ9ZEaYh9Ulo+SjK8+QW7sairrI2byG4+VPLBYwsd7QiG2X+oSEyELhXMlfOyG3 YxaGZu0WmU3VXeFNtfchiJ+EoMbJIrbL7ijho= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=LSTjBz1JFpIE9dhYoBSimY1zGxmZMS8X8LOgAU9hqPPc0FZO++sDDf5QO3/TrRqA8N 6dasKFKl65SqYI8h0AhnzkHhwLdPco5+Cd4szg++cbN+1P3i7MKdlqhUxfAvrG3z+q6j 1jQ8h2Scd1qeSVuqq5kC9TZWcDu/gV4JkeJlA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.187.13 with SMTP id o13mr3909542rvp.28.1265577838807; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:23:58 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6d6eff3a354831a7 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071323y25c7bd63yd2518742f3570b2c@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b6f2fb84a28 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim, If it is not good for the PA we can try again some other evening. You must have come up with QSB & now you are down again. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:04, James Cowburn wrote: > No joy! You are coming through with strong traces and audible too. > > > > Switching to WSPR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! > > > > Maybe next time > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 20:27 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingha= m & > a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in > strength but not enough for a decode yet. > > > > One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. > > > > Keep trying. > > > > 73, Gary - G4wgt. > > On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on =93= odds=94 > lets see if I make it. > > > > I=92ve had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not lettin= g go > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:50 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > OK Jim, > > > > Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding th= e > port. > > > > GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

If it is not good for the PA we can try again= some other evening. You must have come up with QSB & now you are down= again.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



On 7 February 2010 21:04, James Cowburn= <james.c= owburn@virgin.net> wrote:

No joy!=A0=A0 Yo= u are coming through with strong traces and audible too. =A0=A0

=A0

Switching to WSP= R now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! =A0

=A0

Maybe next time<= /span>

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave&= #39;s grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but= not enough for a decode yet.

=A0

One consolation is that it would not be visible or= audible for CW.

=A0

Keep trying.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4wgt= .

On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

3 captures of yo= ur signal so far all about -17dB. =A0I am Txing now on =93odds=94 lets see if I make it.

=A0

I=92ve had comm= port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

=A0

OK Jim,

=A0

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port.<= /font>

=A0

GUD LUK, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be= very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (eve= n minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB021-a18f4b70208d399; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0A8AC38000116; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeUeJ-0000Vu-11 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeUeI-0000Vl-NK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:38 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeUeE-0001kd-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:38 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o18EVKND029136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0330 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: V01NA Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b70208b4215 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Quite amazing, Laurence. The next step is to get a stronger signal to you. The Decca amp and tower sections in the shed might prove helpful! 73 and thanks Joe On Sun, 7 Feb 2010, Laurence KL1X wrote: > > Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe. > > > > Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma > > PA0RDT R75 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b830f8219b; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 37FD5380000AC; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhRp-0006SH-3Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhRn-0006S1-OC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:15 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhRk-0006YJ-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:15 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id E968651C007 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB9131E702 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:04 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EN5EuGcfa20TTgSt4k5J4/DGrQAAlu1h Message-ID: References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b830f800f3a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the= same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a= more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power shoul= d be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable= that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. 73, Rik ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik So how do I load it? I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting. I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out. I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise. If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away. May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns, 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren= Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,<= /font>
 
what about putting a lar= ge (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the requ= ired inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the= high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap needs= to handle the high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than= 780 Watt.
A ready available source= of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV'= s. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable.
 
73, Rik
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card= mic socket=20 and install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT= =20 application. You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the= ability to=20 detect very very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then= record=20 the result in real time spectrum allowing it to be processed= by others.=20

This type of set up is used by many people to copy SA= Q on=20 17.2kc/s.
 
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests= on=20 7.8125kc/s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
 
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on= this=20 exercise I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that= the=20 weather is getting better I will be able to get out worki= ng on the=20 antenna.
 
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up a= bt=20 12/13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of= how to load=20 these antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW= the coil=20 about 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it= =20 be getting very very hot and probably fail and need over= 2 km of=20 wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have been kicked ar= ound on=20 the is reflector and off list there may be something I can try= .

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu,= 25/2/10,=20 Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:
<= /DIV>

From:=20 Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
Subject: LF: RE:= Re:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Th= ursday, 25=20 February, 2010, 10:05

Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up= a quick 9kHz=20 RX here in Luton over the weekend if
that would help. I= have been=20 following this thread with interest, could you
put up som= e diagrams=20 etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna
configur= ations and=20 formulae.

73.
Ken
M0KHW   =20 IO91TV

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mai= lto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ]=20 On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= =20 LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz

Dear LF Group,

A couple= of years=20 ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long=20 inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical ante= nna set up=20
in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings.= The=20 attached graph
shows Rloss plotted against frequency ove= r the=20 range 10kHz to 600kHz for
both antennas. At all frequenc= ies, the=20 loss resistance of the open-field
antenna is much lower= than the=20 home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by
numerous small= trees. The=20 ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close

to= the feed=20 point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas= =20 was

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At= 10kHz,=20 the open  field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R= for the=20
home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss= with=20 frequency -
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant= (the=20 antenna voltage increases
at lower frequencies for a giv= en=20 current) in both cases. The text books say,

for elect= rically=20 small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at=20 low

frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin= effect will=20 eventually cause

resistance to start increasing - in= the case=20 of the open field antenna, a
turn-over point might have= been=20 reached at a few hundred kHz.

The 50R figure suggests= that=20 antenna efficiency might actually be higher at
9kHz than= people=20 are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable=
loading=20 coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around= 350pF -=20
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of arou= nd 0.7H=20 with a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of= about=20 300R. If you tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the= loading=20 coil, a similar inductance with a Q

of around 1000 wo= uld be=20 needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of
the an= tenna=20 would definitely be useful...

Cheers, Jim Moritz
7= 3 de=20 M0BMU


Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it wo= uld act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before meltin= g.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watt= s of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB= designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=  is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this sub= ject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenn= a and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are&nb= sp;LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about= 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction= of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>= wrote:

From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24

Pete,<= /font>
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm= has a resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen= 't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-=
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net><= /i> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1



On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember=
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region.
>
> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diffe= rent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>> that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst= .tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>>   Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configurations for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>
>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>> think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>> Horst
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF071-8bf14b817203f2; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:48:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5DD6738000092; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:48:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjFtj-0006z7-5X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjFti-0006yy-NJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:14 +0000 Received: from web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.72]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjFtf-000436-Mn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 54570 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 17:47:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266774424; bh=p9YKnSOiA/JzTIq7oHZL53XZueux+UkK6blJpGLw47g=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RSbSWxDMRI+oKivgOJVhLU7010MJpl8PhHfAkBM7gr1j6PRgCST5PxW2v2DenGjVs1h3uVaPl7/jr7hUHxKcM5B9zSY74Ny3lYRPyknEL64WUxLfNEXktm/x8sn4H0Itd0L+yLchQjs8SXXUR/raGyvZwfFr1VGd8GBGsGbe6gc= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WJT7KoCL943s+Ki09jI0gYqsDlYui3ibiGhh8KRnz/mm1XvnMVfCXakyFEVQUstvh6YKROsoW74SDt/KrBkkdGafPiItvaUnSrxB8+SL3qciitgz1CpBBSLlkSjGuEy1JHGMYV6H9O2WOKi7BNZJFfkx0NsAK91eprgpe/lmJtk=; Message-ID: <744727.54518.qm@web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: alOx45IVM1le6AceOQcyfQ3srHhpDuBHDWrIC0k.ch0f.5s0YCtjthkA_8U2_n2V4yruv3Wls2wM15TNIMFY29Ueq1k2UB4poCKpJlnPDImYU_l3wczQ5CrR2VboMoyX2P1oSOoUg768hVDuRiLG3hid90rjWtGuRbpjH9Ab2xPU9o07OdQKNXnQlr7fnkreQL6cjQA3LnvUJYuygxEAR8SEbexeNXKggAF_7MxF9m0jl4pwA3YU5exsybi6.IZUMJKQnVlzrffkIiROr2qtf7J1hCn0wGN73g8WjI8- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:47:04 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:47:04 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: 600 meter group , Part-15 Yahoo , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: DCF77 QSL card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d246.1 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b81720126b8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the correct person to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as accurate. I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ 73 to all ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.13]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB073-a7a34b7d05b110f; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:17:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B7D2D380000A4; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2Uy-0001d7-84 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2Ux-0001cy-Sk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2Uu-0006Ud-R2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY100KBX5RI1U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:31 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:26 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <2D4B02AD3C134972B07FF4E1FF674BAC@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 18-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_IJZniS1vfLQlml4qzNGPQg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55181 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d4b7d05af6176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_IJZniS1vfLQlml4qzNGPQg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q)" --Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny pa3cpm Best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 18-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny pa3cpm
Best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 18-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.
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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-db01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB011-85ed4b748413b4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:26:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B193B38000190; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhTe-0002Et-7N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhTd-0002Ek-S9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:37 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhTb-0005g4-7o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:37 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6F6191C00087 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 61CA61C0008C for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 28B271C00087 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211222527166.28B271C00087@mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <097DCD480C21427488716A2D928BDF8E@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: gb4fpr Friday 12 1400 Z > 502k Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b7484105803 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GB4FPR , on the air Friday from round 1400 Z till late=20 502 K CW tx/rx and 3.566 tx/rx=20 Reports welcome tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GB4FPR , on the  air  Frida= y  from=20 round 1400 Z till late
502 K  CW  tx/rx and &= nbsp;=20 3.566  tx/rx
 
Reports  welcome
 
tnx - G .


------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-me09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME093-8bc24b855fd43db; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:20:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 047F93800025D; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKt1-0006ZY-AE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKt0-0006ZP-Rf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:58 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKsy-00067I-4K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:58 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAFzuhEtcGOxC/2dsb2JhbACNDwONfnO9FoRyBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,533,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="451489272" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.236.66]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2010 17:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b855fbd7094 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Get started and see what happens. 9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L antennas as big as possible and re= sonated at 9 kcs with a suitable series inductor plus some ground rad= ials/rods etc=20 Suitable atu between amp and antenna and see what DX can be worked. Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget all about losses and gold plated= foil, STOP speculation and dreaming and get STARTED.. TIP Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms and match with atu to antenna then= you can use existing test equipment to observe progress. Turn your DREAM into REALITY!! G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Get started and see what happens.
9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L= antennas as big=20 as possible and resonated at 9 kcs with a suitable series in= ductor=20  plus some ground radials/rods etc
Suitable atu between amp and antenna= and see what=20 DX can be worked.
Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget= all about=20 losses and gold plated foil, STOP speculation and dreaming and get=20 STARTED..
TIP
Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms an= d match with=20 atu to antenna then you can use existing test equipment to observe=20 progress.
Turn your DREAM into REALITY!!=
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.86]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF044-5ef14b6c358bfc; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:13:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 12D9C38000087; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdPqF-0004tq-Mc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdPqF-0004th-Aq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdPqD-0003Xl-4R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o15FBPl6012006 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:11:26 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:11:26 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:11:11 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: test Thread-Index: AcqmYLQ2sPv6lOMTQayYSQ6FUCIw+QAFL9ty References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.5.150046 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA675.7C8D3C47" Subject: LF: test X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40564b6c35875003 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 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AAAACgAAAGltYWdlL2dpZgAAAB4AEjcBAAAAEgAAADFCMkBnb29tb2ppLmdtYWlsAAAAHgATNwEA AAAIAAAAMUIyLmdpZgADABQ3BAAAAFws ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA675.7C8D3C47-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-mb04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB041-a2394b7976382a5; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:28:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC76A3800041E; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3mz-0003Yi-CV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3my-0003YZ-VX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:12 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl ([194.134.41.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh3mw-0002gT-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:12 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6776802D for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp03.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,STOCK_IMG_OUTLOOK=1 Subject: LF: RE: XGJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b7976322bf8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, also good reception here 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: maandag 15 februari 2010 13:50 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: XGJ Hello Warren, LF! Your signal was very nice here last night. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 all,
 
also good=20 reception here
 
73
 
Victor
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: maandag 15 februari 2010 13:50
Aan= :=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 XGJ

Hello Warren, LF!
Your signal was very ni= ce here=20 last night.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS


Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
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X1bdBa+ymodRdfcLkrx5m91kzGXx+Cu4iP8AoH5YkdFdU9QupWqetHWDzGdY+pun+n2htTdX +tSOjeH1VPTPpPkuoef6adNsfpry9dHegnSmpp/R+qesPV3VFXOz04d1CzOR6i5WhqvW2f03 p7QWC0ftB4rxlvXfqvFeK8V4nqeq8V4rxXiep6//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.96]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b798d33e6; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9FAAC380001E9; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Jv-0003ml-1A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ju-0003mc-NI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:18 +0000 Received: from mx-02mtaout02.mts.net ([142.161.131.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh5Js-0003Na-Nr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:18 +0000 Received: from wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net ([10.204.128.23]) by mx-02mtaout02.mts.net with ESMTP id <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 Received: from mx-02web01.mts.net ([142.161.131.8]) by wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEAJobeUuOoYMI/2dsb2JhbACaRYFJwiEEgxQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,478,1262584800"; d="scan'208";a="125790555" X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.19 (webedge20-101-1110-20050615) X-Originating-IP: [74.216.94.108] From: To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 khz canada Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60604b798d310645 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Can anyone tell me where I can find the official notification that the 2200 metre band is now available to Canadian Amateurs Tks Vern Ve4XC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.92]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b88effd2f0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C5A4A380000AA; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdc-0006PK-5r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdb-0006PB-Hq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlJdZ-0003rY-Cs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgcFAPt+iEtOkzcC/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHItkc7o/hHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,549,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="315657402" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.55.2]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 10:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:10:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605c4b88effb367d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VLF dreamers =20 At the distance predicted for communications all that is required is= to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER would do if you have= symetrical EARS. or even FLAG waving from high ground !! Electrical/Mechanical aids are only necessary above say 20 KCS de Mal/G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Ziegler=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggest= ed that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audibl= e it must be considerably closer. =20 You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:=20 Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'r= ound ! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: Hi Warren Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is no= t the limit by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there?= He wants to take a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years= ... joking aside....... I am not expecting DX but to have a communicat= ion path that covers the local LF Amateur community on VLF would be ra= ther Cool I think. From there it may be a long road that I for one may= not travel but at the moment there is enough enthusiasm locally to tr= y out a few ideas many have come from this debate on the LF reflector.= The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/2 km from a very= low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the road in the= car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this continuous bea= t note running all the time. 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio= Operation below 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal= that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of troubl= e for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wil= kinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there= is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a lice= nce would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless tel= egraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the= elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emis= sions from one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without an= y license from the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards= maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental= protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequenc= y varies, but is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best= practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will alw= ays be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to= regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations= operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is no= t ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually= very nice =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
VLF dreamers   
At the distance predicted for communi= cations all=20 that is required is to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER= would do if=20 you have symetrical EARS.
or even FLAG waving from high ground= =20 !!
Electrical/Mechanical aids are only= necessary above=20 say 20 KCS
de Mal/G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Warren= Ziegler=20
Sent: Saturday, February 27,= 2010 1:28=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special= Permits for=20 Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged= in a bit of=20 hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, bu= t not by=20 much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and= that was=20 to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible= it must be=20 considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics remin= ds of the=20 old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and=20 communism?
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the ot= her way=20 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
        &nbs= p;  =20    WD2XGJ 
          &nbs= p;  =20  WD2XSH/23
             = =20  WE2XEB/2
             = =20  WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yah= oo.co.uk> wrote:

wd2xgj@gmail.com<= /A>>
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject:= Re:=20 LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation bel= ow=20 9kHz?


Asking=20 Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that= will=20 not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XGJ
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XSH/23 =20             WE2XEB/2
=  =20             WE2XGR/1
=

On=20 Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>=20 wrote:
On=20 Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People=20 may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson= at OFCOM=20 received
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view= would=20 be.

[...]

They=20 state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is= no=20 allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. However= in the=20 UK, a licence would be required as
there is no= lower=20 frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the= WT=20 Act
2006. [...]

there is al= ready a very=20 big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
= they=20 inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one=20 continent
can be heard on another. and they do th= is without=20 any license from the radio
authorities. the only= regulation=20 they need regards maximum field strengths
(and th= is is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection= =20 authority
and not the radio authority). the opera= ting=20 frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6= Hz etc=20 :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment,= the best=20 practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agr= ee with=20 you there will always be a "but you will
need a= license for=20 that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if= it is=20 their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic= wave=20 transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or=
any=20 other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not IT= U=20 regulated). you
would probably get an entirely di= fferent=20 answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

= ps. the=20 answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice





=







<= BR>
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA081-85ea4b68702c1cb; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 66A6838000064; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNZ1-0006go-D5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNZ1-0006gf-1i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:27 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.26]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNYy-0001DX-J8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:26 +0000 Received: from COL122-W38 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:33:17 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:33:17 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 18:33:17.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FF0A610:01CAA436] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_" Subject: LF: G3KEV X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b68702842d8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_" --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF! Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snapshot. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF!
Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snaps= hot.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Ho= tmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_-- --_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100202_G3KEV.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAArAYEDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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mtain-mj11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj11.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.95]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD074-86af4b7f0d0a339; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:13:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8E291380000B0; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nib5N-0007C8-Hf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nib5M-0007Bz-OQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:32 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nib5L-0003Fh-31 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:32 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W33 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:12:24 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:12:23 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> References: ,<91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 22:12:24.0154 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D1993A0:01CAB1B0] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_" Subject: RE: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b64b7f0d08798a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Markus - great stuff- I am using the k9ay and had nulled out of one= the chains to get the walking effects - unfortunately I dont have the sdr= up here in Alaska (its in Oklahoma) so cant do a wideband but Ill do a= series of recordings with different headings/amp equalisation and see wha= t comes out - It certainly was a strange "160" sound... I had increased th= e perimeter of the k9ay on just one loop to improve my 137 khz rx - so was= interested to see the affect - this is a very old D600 with the normal so= undcard offsets -=20 =20 Im using a L400 on 137 here and at the moment cant get the performance I= want; I maybuild another PA0RDT which does somewhat better in this locati= on =20 =20 I seem to be suffering with "ground current noise" - whereby the main, 2= phase ground return earth rods are probably close to my radio earth rods= location and Im getting some form of circulating and noise coming up my= earth connection - one of the few times where local earthing is actually= deterioating and Im just earthing at the antennae end - Ill try shoving= some rods up this end of the house, far from the "mains incomer" and see= what happens. =20 42F and a beautiful day here - sunshine and mountains, but still very deep= wet snow by the antennae.... =20 Laurence KL 1 X Wasilla AK BP51IP =20 From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: peter.martinez@btinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Dear Laurence, =20 good to read you're back in AK... =20 Your observation is interesting. In your region, there should now be two= chains left on air. One is the Canadian West Coast chain on GRI 5990, whi= ch is still supported by US stations, including your nearest one Shoal Cov= e (5990 X). The other is the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be su= pported by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups= of these very similar rates, walking through one another in time. =20 The attached screenshots are the results of feeding your wav to SpecLab's= time domain scope. Using 64 averages on 5990, AM-demodulated pulsegroups= from all stations from the West Canadian chain are visible. The timescale= appears a bit too long because the actual samplerate was close to 22.200= kHz, rather than 22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can= see only a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unusual format for Loran-= C, probably indicating an error condition by "blinking" the first two of= the eight pulses. One possible reason for this might be the Russian maste= r being down. =20 It would be interesting to look at an SSB recording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB).= This could reveal phase coding within the pulsegroups, and possibly allow= verification of the blinking secondary. =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 From: Laurence KL1X=20 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Loran A and C =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran= on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did= their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100= khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen= from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and= phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very simil= ar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course= a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just du= e to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing= seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in= Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low power as Im playing with the matching - Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now= . =3D =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Markus - great stuff- I am using the k9ay and had nulled out= of one the chains to get the walking effects - unfortunately I dont&= nbsp;have the sdr up here in Alaska (its in Oklahoma) so cant do= a wideband but Ill do  a series of recordings with different he= adings/amp equalisation and see what comes out - It certainly was a= strange "160" sound... I had increased the perimeter of the k9ay on = just one loop to improve my 137 khz rx - so was interested to see the affe= ct - this is a very old D600 with the normal soundcard offsets -
 
Im using a L400 on 137 here and at the moment cant get the performanc= e I want; I maybuild another PA0RDT which does somewhat better in this loc= ation
 
 
 I seem to be suffering with "ground current noise" - whereby the mai= n, 2 phase ground return earth rods are probably close to my rad= io earth rods location and Im getting some form of circulating and noise= coming up my earth connection - one of the few times where local ear= thing is actually deterioating and Im just earthing at the antennae= end  - Ill try shoving some rods up this end of the house, far= from the "mains incomer" and see what happens.
 
42F and a beautiful day here - sunshine and mountains, but still very= deep wet snow by the antennae....
 
Laurence KL 1 X Wasilla AK BP51IP
 
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC: pete= r.martinez@btinternet.com
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100
Subj= ect: Re: LF: Loran A and C

Dear Laurence,
 
good to read you're back in AK...
 
Your observation is interesting. In your regi= on, there should now be two chains left on air. One is the= Canadian West Coast chain on GRI 5990, which is still supported by US sta= tions, including your nearest one Shoal Cove (5990 X). The other= is the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be supporte= d by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pu= lsegroups of these very similar rates, walking through one another in= time.
 
The attached screenshots are the results of f= eeding your wav to SpecLab's time domain scope. Using 64 average= s on 5990, AM-demodulated pulsegroups from all stations from the West Cana= dian chain are visible. The timescale appears a bit too long because = the actual samplerate was close to 22.200 kHz, rather than&= nbsp;22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can see onl= y a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unusual format for Loran-C, proba= bly indicating an error condition by "blinking" the first two of the eight= pulses. One possible reason for this might be the Russian master bei= ng down.
 
It would be interesting to look at an SSB rec= ording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB). This could reveal phase coding= within the pulsegroups, and possibly allow verification of the blink= ing secondary.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
<= FONT face=3DArial>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM
Subject: LF: Loran A and C

&nb= sp;
Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noise= s of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky= waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the Am= erican 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I too= k a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W= LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing nois= e very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but= of course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whe= ther this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a= lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it soun= ded like from here in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phas= e noise towards the end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville"= Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
p= s the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this eve= ning but low power as Im playing with the matching -

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D =
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email servi= ce. Get it now. =3D --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD082-86364b694c152f3; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:12:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 016EF38000139; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:12:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NccCw-0002Oq-JI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NccCw-0002Oh-4C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NccCt-00066Y-3s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX900KBHGB2WG@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:11:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:11:18 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 03-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b694c13089a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw)" --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz Henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 03-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC  507.77Khz
Henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 03-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw)-- --Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 03-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 03-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAycDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQGBQcI/8QAGAEAAwEB AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfjhMT1FW/Ohym0wRckI0RFTZdMBIWiA jQvRmdTi3LoXGHmCJRi2miipV4oDukCVWgTFtNYNGQDhXJDUuqkuFazlKqa10iiBJufQI1Dp VmguzkCrjBszoN+Ze1KhnzKqk1VmltBJ25aoxNQiCxzV3TrFBTcQZKArNOxLmjJ5bIgoNeem S9GYNeTRn1TaBmY3MwW4rQtSvtOO67E/QqcKMX6syQPzXjO+9pILxkGidKoNN6gZmuz3edII DFqGSxHT8xSa8y9ejU0stsaaOE2YBRsHIQzutOhjGFzSy9OK9Kfm0VC1NXCjKlluRbobF+cr 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4.14) id 1Ne1eR-0000Zn-9Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:33:51 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s11.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne1eO-0007FA-K2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:33:51 +0000 Received: from COL122-W30 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s11.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:33:41 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:33:41 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 07:33:41.0056 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEBA4400:01CAA7C7] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_" Subject: LF: VO1NA_IN_JN88KS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6e6d410f3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_" --_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joe, LF! The LF band was noisy last night, but I saw some traces of your signal on= 137.777kHz. My RX will be ready on this frequency next nights. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joe, LF!
The LF band was noisy last night, but I saw some traces= of your signal on 137.777kHz. My RX will be ready on this frequency next= nights.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
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--_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA024-b4f64b829a321a5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:52:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B3269380000E9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZcY-0001Eo-EU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZcX-0001Ef-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:49 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjZcU-00027D-VO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:49 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D263651C003 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5661AF3864 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:36 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:51 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_20655593==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b829a2b4907 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_20655593==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as >well? What about the UK? Stefan, in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --=====================_20655593==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free"

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

--=====================_20655593==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME044-8baf4b81010c23f; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:46:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E6D9D380000AF; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj8NB-0005tN-EH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj8NA-0005tE-Sg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:08 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj8N7-0001fF-FC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:08 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1018569bwz.4 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:44:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RHbldvfiLbtiy6GVjfXoOsrdT867zLYtIrG0B7xM1Yk=; b=t24o+9NtwNIfMysKcsSfUYDCFnK74LnimvpCOKAi0Zsn7z41+vOFgTTaTxfSSkh+Um bY3eAusqFKAISNykYrDVigXwmFzYf3byJ2KblZ/xQBKa4LFtBO4s4e7cr8iYhO8G5+YK +wE+AaCOrxkmd63CKsw9B9ZLOrpEUnak0zIzo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=uUwZJ8zMycszBZsJsDoSuPIqqRjYu4oShljEdC99jk+rtkwEQPw8E+Op0hAFVak095 3uLpw21HyCcHvhGG15eFO34mgp9cTy/tMf34y8vYCyZVLh8LavH8B9VQKFGKJ3Ef86jA NiCqe/+ihY7Xj8HBbLj7beI8j29Yd7KCX5XZM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.208 with SMTP id y16mr2686085bks.137.1266745498238; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:44:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:44:58 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m232.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b81010a4b5d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean - Pierre... Is the circuit diagram correct ? Your two final op-amps used as differential amplifiers both have their inputs taken from teh same ndes,= yet are labelled to deliver I and Q. The first pair of op-amp do correctly take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then their outputs are summed (differenced !) together. As far as I can see, I and Q outputs are the same signal. Also, there is very littel audio gain in the circuit= , so the receiver as shown requires plenty of RF input to deliver enough aud= io for teh typical soundcard An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it has considerable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep stable. Better to use a MAR-3 at LF. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" wrote: > Hi Scott , > > Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm > > It is my grabber on 2200m ! > > 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj > > > Scott Tilley a =E9crit : > > Hi All >> >> I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well >> documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? >> >> Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of >> effort would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Regards, >> Scott >> >> >> >> >> > --001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jean - Pierre...
=A0
Is the circuit diagram correct ?=A0=A0 Your two final op-amps=A0used= as differential amplifiers=A0both have=A0their inputs taken from teh same= ndes,=A0yet are labelled to deliver I and Q.=A0=A0=A0The first pair of op= -amp do correctly take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then= their outputs are summed (differenced !) =A0together.=A0=A0 As far as I= can see,=A0=A0 I and Q outputs are the same signal.=A0 Also, there is=A0v= ery littel audio gain in the circuit, so the receiver as shown requires pl= enty of RF input to deliver enough audio for teh typical soundcard=20
=A0
An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it has=A0co= nsiderable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep stable.=A0= =A0 Better to use a MAR-3 at LF.
=A0
On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M= =E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" <jpm.f1afj@online.fr> wrote:
Hi Scott ,

Please , loo= ck at : =A0 =A0 http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm
It is my grabber on 2200m !

73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj

Scott Tilley a =E9crit :=20

Hi All

I was wondering= if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented for converti= ng a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use?

Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of= effort would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Scott


=



--001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.25]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b86486a3da; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:52:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 67E6D38000186; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaNu-0001Iv-Gd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaNu-0001Il-4z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkaNr-0002Za-8J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYE0028Z626LP@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:51:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55490 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41194b86486808c3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q)" --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi All, capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi All,
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Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 24-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q)-- --Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABDArIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBwgG/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHybRgd6NKzmEJtEXVFktLnVq5mjPSX JCbW81xdNgcp6cmiWJiFq61akqkOLO143IU6NvOlSx+N6kCXGRrEAr08bdbbjoZ6hDnGgwDo zwmhnVVNOSlq4LryrJcYwXVlBSZ5Jtiy0NJYaYzSJtU2rzNaliFJPSCYrU/O/KpoExjFW+Xp zGo05WqdiU5U1Zow1JtCyG4TpVUVdJOvRlCrxGk5bMPcwhsh3psMIu6UdyK3Z6KtfTVJsW3R ldrz251yEWiS5p1lGnPX+g4SAGa9Z3GroPG5Zo7uHFbueac3OG55YWVoRUj1sbNiexRVJhon 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1NftBX-0003rU-Mg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:55:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NftBU-0000ug-O7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:55:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXQ000KA6CKAQ@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:55:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:55:31 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40944b7534180e90 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ)" --Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 12-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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dKKaoZWx/YNYvaoa0O0L/Yq2U6tGzS6vAGD6FH9jWF9rfu4eYPAxtIe1f9jfZnbad8//AM+6 gaAev/eEQF08/WDKqtUpUGPq8AAR7gUKerQSu+lX1cGkhq3iP/1UsLpxyxgCOhwZ6WrKilaf mFan2oCxf3eZU3kprYfaMdLFPoZSR9LGp//Z --Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC032-a8dc4b68d428334; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:40:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F2293800006B; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcUDa-0000NP-9w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcUDZ-0000NG-Us for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:45 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcUDX-0003VB-5I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:45 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2010 01:39:36 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5ee59.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.238.89] by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 02:39:36 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18s6O9Tl48sZFhTGx3Ukz+ZZZqdU5s15wUSnQjTYf 4TL2rSIN8YiFTh Message-ID: <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:39:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100202-1, 02.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.76000000000000001 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: PAET Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b68d4275e9f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Now on 496khz PA in CW and ET in QRSS. Who is it? 73 Veit DL7ET / DE0VSP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b82be2d12a; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F3FAD380000CB; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc1q-0002s0-1F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc1p-0002rr-MO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njc1n-0003Xn-4Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1MHOveg017092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:57 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:57 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:56 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZwAAIOX4A= Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> In-Reply-To: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b82be2a55be X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipol= e? 73, Chris G4OKW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.16]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA104-86944b718ca2107; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:26:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0208638000493; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nestr-00040U-RO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nestr-00040K-GC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nestp-0002eV-QJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsAEALMacUtZ8Y7s/2dsb2JhbACNDgPNRIRUBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,437,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="296668999" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.142.236]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 16:25:11 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01caa9a4$73292f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:25:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b718ca043d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone wants a CW qso on 137 let me know.=20 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If anyone wants a CW qso on 137 let= me know.=20
de mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b85c1ad19a; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D1D27380000A0; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRPZ-0008A9-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRPZ-0008A0-Fp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: from web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkRPX-00007y-NC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 53976 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267057013; bh=EIuZPmpG9yweh1DChZZeElh+ECD8gyQ+aY6qlDW/BKQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=voB1Svd9CypVm0uNnzxKocSLo/Kp1Rpw2vMrRBj0TqBXhnDpbYa9cOUgT35EoT6vsvo8PR8egSy1oPpDDTKGiH3j2hlWEpuY5xpK4mh8khNMxEaEHZnZwH8WoEVWHOnwhAyKs8t/+lijdxMfi81GoPBK+zvWAGEDfSVb/ulU2jA= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gGfzIuMwdNhOTpFFWMrwU+/nCjtoU89fc6GJcK9T/+Ut6XdprhMSUKnDcscHQyNdfuCPzHlHIbfZ6fiUDmm0eD3AcZTEUDINjXH2yeVWlqFUhLenOzUT7z9cjjArKla79xVi8wFue9kOzRbr8vEx1JAyDdfgojfXcLOszr1Ol9U=; Message-ID: <560649.48724.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jsQI_rkVM1llFIpCzg4cn2EWN53RKp9R3PDZPWX8U1Q4HTE0kQ2abQfdAB3ffIrFAQh1sYDZJJfqt0_9hfwVT3QYbs5u2ABo8Mucm8GWKgm.ATUWQcXkT9z5WNx44lkMgil5vSxLrwPtRn6N_GCfVJniRqYJPptn91K0IrNgxk3tfPGjnQVwwbL3V8D_yUApgr.pIyKG0svknAmOWEIG4UCTZyqymgk0Ic1hbc8UN4xsfPlKV.gz4Tr3hqvGRZ3AFu1cfbTHN62mIPV6IaMZ63Bd5AbXL1TAANRoaR8MSyeqzTsUX.zmKyE9QXyP Received: from [213.122.40.46] by web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m274.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b85c1ab333e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Gerhard, yes maybe vandalism but you check out the cost of maintaining= and insuring towers like that today and you will see why they had to come= down....the same reason as the 250m towers at GBR Rugby were felled. Alan G3NYK --- On Wed, 24/2/10, Gerhard Hickl wrote: > From: Gerhard Hickl > Subject: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > Date: Wednesday, 24 February, 2010, 21:28 > Hello group! >=20 > I know, it's a little bit "off topic" but if anyone is > interested: >=20 > Today two big MF-Antennas (585kc and 1674kc) located very > closely to > Vienna had been taken down. The smaller tower was 120m high > and the > other about 265m. The latter was the highest man-made > object in Austria > until today 14:00z. The power of the transmitters was up to > 600kW.=20 >=20 > I don't know about other countries but at least in Austria > MF is "dead" > since several years. If you talk to younger people, they > hardly know > what you mean by "MF". >=20 > The site name of the two antennas is "Bisamberg" or maybe > "Vienna, > Bisamberg" and if someone is interested, please search on > the web. >=20 > There are a lot of infos and even the video of destroying > the antennas > by explosions today. >=20 > I don't appreciate this senseless act of destruction and in > my opinion > in was a wrong decision by the responsible people. But, as > always, > nobody asked me. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers and 73 >=20 > OE3GHB >=20 > Gerhard >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.154]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b6f244b148; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:36:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2D8DA380000A1; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDqo-0004Au-Ug for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDqo-0004Al-JB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: from smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDqm-0003kw-O4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: (qmail 66309 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 20:35:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=erckwaVdppJAxYxxnO0gPUYmAsOWMhxMngib2/iYT0Vv9VFtRNtv7UdwmYrjITvmHxM+xnuGxoNVdSqOalgTUCikPO243GxMIs+bith016/VpKfvumQEDreK28fA1eyNMtX9FuWgg/Fx89uV3UbseOKjg2HcxSmq4SozPsPJGMQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 2kjtLioVM1lktb_f9qBdAottLac2aG6EfXw33kMQsW0f3.CgjGcFpUuDOs0Oib6vYiheRZO8QNHm6zOvdW_.KxN.bhXy2yi8beSRluhY_oBxef_v73w8IwjAHFCaUfOJzMqVHhc9tsweHrQITkPXgDghlEBGHkCy9y8rymjJsVSdw1YM3ZipTtmIpaJKjzBRnZbvi9TY1slzVbazn.rIzCctvCfyr9.ypglnZQ9T5cka.i963nNh.EZ_wvJKI3Cq X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdec94b6f24495d9b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC031-85ff4b82b1b91b2; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 82B923800009E; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbCN-0002Pl-G3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbCM-0002PT-H1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:54 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbCK-00039L-Ox for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:54 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100222163146.BSPU4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbCE-0003kq-Ay for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 -0000 Message-ID: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=HmCT5iXHAAAA:8 a=YVLYd_bNAAAA:8 a=spfw7PUuAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=gjHbtiOjAAAA:8 a=tnJwMPGvWQne3beiP74A:9 a=NxWGx0_9xm7LQFMBjcYA:7 a=Ki0KVV2cG6xnfvf8kQsWU7FHHhEA:4 a=l7a6iXsAz5sA:10 a=VoFPz64Ki7sA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=gBMKgfuXvLmqGGc9:21 a=F069Ruj0SsaQRLfR:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b82b1b61f42 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegle= r Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6f34f7160; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:47:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC815380002D9; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeExc-00060h-5n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeExb-00060X-JU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:31 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeExY-0004ai-B0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:31 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4723926pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:46:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1op+SHcIvaI3rqL13a3aLseFjQzn1y8c5C/4T++DmaU=; b=FjI7lOEp2aSSpiJVW9To2kHS9/2UNl3LbDHm5JDb16SkYjObf22p6HFuQPyYIflqUu vuv7wE6eJ7qEd7+dXJJpCor8fF+Gfpr0eRJp6R8XiWlfCnDfYBDRkCQomXCV63davyUo 2RyrKuevinbued6yb/6Wutd/XoyJ2ygcN89hc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=N9VfWVUTFMfHzT51dlQhiUMRg3dwwk+1JowNg5mlGSART8ZXgy4YFk8YYr05rL8gfl 3I09t0KUpicBDd9+hfjoVtgyfZwrXnZGRKogZ90EmpwlS2xyfQN29toAvFGa16ZHPuiW YStPsrZ55xozblA3y++GGCuwe8YRl6gUyZtzk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.213.29 with SMTP id p29mr3868365rvq.133.1265579181952; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:46:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:46:21 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5aac05188cf2a6f9 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071346k3118b262haa3eca3f993cfed8@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b6f34f534fe X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Yes, all OK. I will send you my crib sheet later it will help to send the correct response. Thanks for completed JT4A 2 way. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:27, James Cowburn wrote: > Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > 26 Birch Close > > Broom > > Biggleswade > > Beds > > SG18 9NR > > > > T +44 (0) 1767 600522 > > M+44 (0) 7967 300152 > > E james.cowburn@virgin.net > > > > *The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is > addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not > read this message. > Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any > action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not > intended to be contractually binding. > If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the > message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. > *** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 21:15 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. > > > > 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > > > Gary. > > On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: > > Sorry I knocked the VFO! > > Thanks for the report > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Yes, all OK.

I will send= you my crib sheet later it will help to send the correct response.
<= div>
Thanks for completed JT4A 2 way.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 7 Februa= ry 2010 21:27, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Great, have repl= ied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) =A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

26 Birch Close

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds

SG18 9NR<= /font>

=A0

T +4= 4 (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E <= font size=3D"2">james.cowburn@virgin.net

=A0=

The information transmitted is inte= nded only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privile= ged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified= that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of an= y action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other tha= n the intended recipient is prohibited.=A0 Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the messa= ge as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.

=A0

211100 =A04 =A0-20 =A00.1 =A0 =A02 32 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0=A0

=A0

Gary.=

On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Sorry I knocked the= VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


=A0


--000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI054-eac94b854d5034e; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 17CD33800157E; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:01:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJdi-0005rp-Kl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJdi-0005rg-9m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJdd-0005DP-Sw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1OFwjTZ018405 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:45 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cef.7186ecec (34995) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-m25.mail.aol.com (magic-m25.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.198]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB018-88b34b854cb212b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.218.65 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: M0BMU QSL card (F4DTL) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b854d3e4d4f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thank Jim for your QSL card received today. It's a beautiful card. Best regards F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many thank Jim for your QSL card received today. It's a beautiful=20 card. 
 
Best regards
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
<= FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"= PTSIZE=3D"12">http://lfist= es.erst.azerttyu.net/
 --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.8]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI061-eaca4b8816683d2; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14E55380000A4; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl58w-0007sK-9p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl58v-0007sB-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:29 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl58s-0007ya-TO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:29 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QIgMAq019787 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:42:23 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA00275 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:47:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:47:25 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:42:24 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40084b88166614f4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, Andy Talbot wrote: > probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73kHz > the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely > Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. Andy, certanly AFTER filtering noise became gaussian. But matter of fact is that if noise is nongaussian then to get optimal reception one should make some nonlinear processing (limiting in simplest way) BEFORE narrow band filtering. After filtering when noise is gaussian limiting or someone else nonliniar processing has no sence. There is exact matematical theorem: if noise is gaussian then optimal signal processing is linear filtering (or correlator calculation in coherent case). > However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going for > coherent signalling. IMHO coherent signaling improoves SNR by 3 dB. It does not depend of the fact if noise is gaussian or nongaussian. Anyway this (coherent signaling) is linear processing nonoptimal when noise is nongaussian. Interesting quation arises there. Is any optimal form of the signal if noise is nongaussian? I don't know answer. This is high science. But if noise is gaussian then form of the signal has no meaning. Only energy of the signal has meaning if noise is gaussian (with constant spectrum). If filter is optimal for specific signal of couse. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE011-5ea24b6f2b2622f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:05:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 484C1380000F3; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEJE-0004oj-08 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEJD-0004oW-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:47 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEJB-00045D-UW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:47 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207210440.GAEJ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:04:40 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEJ5-0003Pa-Hu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:40 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:04:37 -0000 Message-ID: <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoNBsaGGoW2njzSS24l1Mico1S6wABMk7A X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=sM9o4fZmomUROB6xvIsA:9 a=rsgNaVLMoXprAFKhKVAA:7 a=or6heUByWsmTm4IUoXYrN7hb9iwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=9AeOp5ZzXMg_09bL:21 a=Vlkg4ZLu6cwllVPL:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=eeuRTDgHSEXUkVsFjD4A:9 a=_jcEowIGKAnhT7uTHbwA:7 a=zMql8BcItUK7dHMCoqaL9alpancA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054b6f2b246aba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No joy! You are coming through with strong traces and audible too. Switching to WSPR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! Maybe next time With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 20:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet. One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. Keep trying. 73, Gary - G4wgt. On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on "odds" lets see if I make it. I've had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No joy! &n= bsp; You are coming through with strong traces and audible too.   

 

Switching to WS= PR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa!  

 

Maybe next time=

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 20:27
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on= Dave's grabber at Birmin= gham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength= but not enough for a decode yet.

 

One consolation is that it would not be visib= le or audible for CW.

 

Keep trying.

 

73,  Gary -= G4wgt.

On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

 

3 captures of your signa= l so far all about -17dB.  I am Txing now on “odds” lets see if I make it.

 

I’ve had comm port= issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:50
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

OK Jim,

 

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port.

 

GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:<= /span>

Hi Gary

 

I am listening out for= you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will= be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx Fir= st (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  = Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b87a0a1aa; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:21:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CFE4438000093; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:21:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkxIt-0003zx-D3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkxIs-0003zo-RP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:14 +0000 Received: from mail-pv0-f171.google.com ([74.125.83.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkxIp-0003ob-KF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:14 +0000 Received: by pvg2 with SMTP id 2so1434359pvg.16 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QtCeyRBzWW8FR3iD+00srZzkzf8alceXJkEKq+5phqY=; b=GTay64XJ1fylJHyuRD52b9Bl6Uy+x7+qLmbWrjW5ki8f1lf9PrLNTLsENzSdnRO6gS gV6uCEAvTRDQijnacdrwotACF1OGuiXYNpJsEIa7lKQ6lK6ZSuQzJePcU4XMJkg1ATX0 2swc+AySZmLpw5O3f8r/GrVKClF4oJm8cvSNU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=VxSZ/BipygMvZ9MBE2XUsqeWxobiaR+LfS9G1Txw8nO/a+iO1BFU0pyja6e/TF7qth r60QdoF+vix4Vxmj3wuMY6Lq8gp+YLmyGEOYw6cNgEzVqbk5sKKmjRb+7uwpdm/1dinx GcfOycifc+6Hm3YiGFczWczFEb2ACyfWmd2do= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.101.21 with SMTP id d21mr96551rvm.41.1267179603471; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:03 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6788739c060d7e11 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002260220n3d2a2ebeye088bc887b5d4fb@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d258.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b87a09f0e64 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF, I am not involved with the group, I joined only to read the interesting mails & discussions & do not get involved. Just the occasional response fr= om me. I know that some members also subscribe here to LF. You could subscribe yourself & I am sure you would be made very welcome & share experiences with the other members. I have seen that they are very helpful to each other. I can receive down to about 5kHz or so with my transverter (performance no= t measured) & lower with sound card receivers & I do occasionally tune down= & look/listen. Good Luck with your project es 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion! > > Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint= what > is happening here in the last days ;-)) > I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on > 8,9kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my > "electronic-lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and > resonating that coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and > heating problems). Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be > right, i will try a transmission on sunday morning but that is still > uncertain and i would tell it to the group before. > I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX there= . > Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on lo= w > frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away... > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT > Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals? > > > Hi Stefan, LF, > > There is a VLF Group at the following :- > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ > > The members discuss & ar= e > involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" > > Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informati= ve > group. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > > > Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the > 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these > transmitters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is > receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the= SNR > he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have > nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to > activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density. > Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i= will > rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) > > Stefan/DK7FC > > > > --000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF,

I am not involved with the group, I join= ed only to read the interesting mails & discussions & do not get= involved. Just the occasional response from me. I know that some members= also subscribe here to LF.

You could subscribe yourself & I am sure you would= be made very welcome & share experiences with the other members. I ha= ve seen that they are very helpful to each other.

I can receive down to about 5kHz or so with my transverter (performance no= t measured) & lower with sound card receivers & I do occasionally= tune down & look/listen.

Good Luck with your= project es 73,

Gary - G4WGT.

2010/2= /25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion!

Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint wha= t is happening here in the last days ;-))
I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on 8,9= kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my "electr= onic-lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and resona= ting that coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and heating pr= oblems). Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be right, i will= try a transmission on sunday morning but that is still uncertain and i wo= uld tell it to the group before.
I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX the= re. Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on= low frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away...

73, Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08
An: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals?


Hi Stefan, LF,

There is a VLF Group at the following :-

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/

<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/> The members di= scuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natu= ral radio"

Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informa= tive group.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>


=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received= in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where th= ese transmitters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is= receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SN= R he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have= nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/mo= tivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region.= But i will rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-)

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Stefan/DK7FC




--000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.75]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI063-eacc4b804fe0a0; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:10:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 19871380000A3; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiwZR-0003AW-M5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiwZR-0003AN-6V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from rekin23.go2.pl ([193.17.41.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiwZP-0001Ve-A6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from rekin23.go2.pl (rekin23 [127.0.0.1]) by rekin23.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF471287F6 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by rekin23.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from 58-178-124-188.rev.pro-internet.pl [188.124.178.58] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id KIzQWb; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01cab270$e8bc3450$3ab27cbc@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: References: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl <009301cab1c4$d5c1ba70$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 61 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604b4b804fdf1c56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Veit Thank you for nice QSO and screenshot! QSL card 100% via the bureau. 73! Marcin > Thanks for 599 dear Marcin. > > This was my first X band QSO with longwave, I did. Many thanks. > The sifgnal was QSBing between very good and nothing! > > Please QSL via bureau. My QSL is sure. > > 73 Veit DL7ET > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:02 AM > Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH > > > Hello Veit > I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. > 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > > > > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? > > > > Veit DL7ET > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME021-8ba44b77563b8; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:47:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0BE8438000115; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgTYY-0007Rq-MX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgTYY-0007Rh-56 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: from smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgTYW-0003nu-5Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 74304 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=iumyrxCnjj/pvzQdvKFZlpPjv1r8fJRVFb2Ert4M5PckB+a3QBu6t9rpXuRSaNY/DjcNWcnCyQv9tVEAardrhIXfqfnc9qgkFj35FEAOlR1PD/fAyiHOOIyU84JzRCkIhjlaGtmLjPDXqnjctVp1JXjzV17HlHUW8kBpSopPGe8= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 7ZqB8M8VM1mmESD3r0o1gAOkT9DznIzGdNUtMIbxf.cvi4tSG4LRd6NCIm8A5pUq72iCAiyPZCPx9rYS2lmUaOYe8l9x8Z.eDb_r7MyzxW2Vggwdd.L4Mr1V_HI_JFQGhnbP0vv6Z5ZAeqNFOOr4sijUvJcEpNw4n_3ww6y4tNSe5W5yghj5gGpvfhTpi3QNHL8dx9wbMXbTCUfeFwqy6CllrCLJda.N0l2sMepe9WKGSgIZxYrbrocXHcItboAT X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: 500kHz WSPR QSO WE2XGR/2 <-> M0BMU Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7756390722 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decoded messages went like this: 000400 5 -28 0.1 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 001600 6 -26 0.0 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 003002 4 -26 -0.1 51 0 M0BMU <...> S1 004400 4 -29 0.0 70 0 WE2XGR R S1 005002 5 -26 -0.1 51 0 WE2XGR RRR 010000 9 -24 -0.2 70 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 010602 7 -26 0.1 51 0 73 DE WE2XGR FN31 Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO? M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE071-5eba4b8407cf331; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:52:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E1ECD380000E0; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxyv-0002Si-Ex for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxyv-0002SZ-4M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxyt-0005O6-9V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1NGpQN8024749 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:51:28 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00289 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:56:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:56:22 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:51:29 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b8407cb7afe X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > Ok Alan, but what is the difference between a ground stake and the alu foil, > when talking about the resistive losses? Ground resistance is not worth in such a conditions. Coil (or high voltage transformer) resistance is much grater anyway. Thus use the single short ground stake and don't worry about it. It is much worther antenna enviroment (trees, houses e.t.c.). Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b86b6a91ee; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:43:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C3553800005D; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:43:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkhie-0006Ph-IK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkhid-0006PY-L3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:47 +0000 Received: from web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkhid-0007IX-Bi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 11036 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 17:41:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267119700; bh=grrxCmepx185+H5q/DKLa6b9bakhPRwHHz/AvCsgjhU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3ogkj4AkK5KGjpmByUULyoNULThoQhmfsTZm37wCy/HGmQlKQlrX9prmg+Rx90XZdCxWkJZdkUdf5A0wuNU12kKP+rWH2OgseG/IrpxbTcdsW0poMN1ldxCb+gHnoEjv6h3bFvRd7gYxewwNplf09n8bk8vknZYPER4p6PFbNbw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mVhsp1HmpI4EIeJCNwFLy/ZbJcEvVHmcUXXqyfmeh/iLFX1iFXheWouha7Fkp1sq0gfeX2/3uOp5zSM5ECHbGKoRJ1pCl1/nhXJv/PpcS51MPuaK51Df3gAofFK/2THuRjO7LeVN1IqnxdFqK2Q572ZiOb2xA9SDO1NeOCvqwgc=; Message-ID: <970432.10413.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: X1Dw4KwVM1lGn66FxOlrDZWEc4B55tN3IMx_Rxd1qyggQC7.qHj.YECIn.q0Htma2teMaVunAxoTRpsoHLBQn2ZKjz8Nz7JkaLZGqBub374quKkhfji9UBaG7CXbKhEtbfCXBhR6lPHZwVx4q5FJWL7l07mnHIjDdBYVWx7ZLpRPaX5xzRvfHyB4qWGst3L7WE9qZqowZPuNVprtgPHNk_AKREQOnbUVtz9qtrwbywBed0Y6TsK5Am.P5eOdOOCteGyFaaVsDy6NccnG1XWOzEX4 Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:41:40 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_40_50, HTML_COMMENT_8BITS,HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_TABLE,WEIRD_QUOTING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55503 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d234.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b86b6a7041d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Roger =C2=A0 What happens with hard of hearing audio induction loops, they are every wh= ere nowadays? =C2=A0 Does this mean if we put a an OFW305 they will issue us with an NOV? =C2=A0 I am typing mine now! =C2=A0 Thanks to G4JNT previously=C2=A0and Good Work Roger!! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Roger Lapthorn wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 17:19 People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received= today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.=20 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rod Wilkinson Date: 25 February 2010 15:20 Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: Roger Lapthorn Hello Roger, Well, quicker than I thought we=E2=80=99d be I have some info for you rega= rding the possibility of operating on 9kHz. Apparently Ofcoms=E2=80=99 Spectrum Management Team were approached back= in 2006 by Colin Thomas G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We= understood at that time there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from= Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothing came of it on that occasion. That has though allowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Sp= ectrum Team see no reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not ta= ke place on 9kHz. They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no= allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence woul= d be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy= under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation= for an existing licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as fo= r operating on 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non int= erference basis to other active facilities and systems using that part of= the spectrum. We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who wer= e approached during the original enquires to confirm that they remain cont= ent with the agreed arrangements.=C2=A0 All this, will of course, need to= be done prior to the NoV being granted. So it does seem a possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed pl= ease complete an application from for a Special Research Permit available= at: www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw= 306.pdf Please provide as much detail as possible and send it to me and I will lia= ise with appropriate colleagues. I hope that helps. Vy 73 Rod Rod Wilkinson OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Ofcom Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Have you changed your address recently?=20 Update your details on the Ofcom Amateur and Ships Licensing Service=20 =C2=A0 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]=20 Sent: 23 February 2010 10:33 AM To: Rod Wilkinson Subject: Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? =C2=A0 Many thanks Rod.=20 I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson wrot= e: Hello Roger, =C2=A0 Many thanks for your very interesting mail. =C2=A0 To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating below 9kHz= I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=E2=80=99 spectrum management team= and possibly the lawyers too.=20 =C2=A0 So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to you as soo= n as possible. =C2=A0But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather= than days. =C2=A0 Vy 73=20 =C2=A0 Rod PS =C2=A0sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz! =C2=A0 Rod Wilkinson OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Ofcom Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Have you changed your address recently?=20 Update your details on the Ofcom Amateur and Ships Licensing Service=20 =C2=A0 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]=20 Sent: 22 February 2010 10:43 PM To: Rod Wilkinson Subject: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? =C2=A0 Dear Rod, On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last few= days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago (aro= und 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and G9BI= B) for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications= magazine in 1975. It's a fascinating part of the spectrum to explore. In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amate= urs operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am= aware, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring,= VLF emissions research (whistler reception, etc), slow data rate signalli= ng to submerged submarines (although I believe this has now been replaced= by other methods) and some slow data rate FSK modulation of the mains pow= er grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interf= erence threat to any of these. At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a= traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiatio= n immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and pur= poses, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so ca= lled "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense= . Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range very lim= ited. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experi= menting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at the= se basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS60= or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulat= ion modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at= best rather than hundreds of kilometres). So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at all?= If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-ca= se basis as at 500kHz?=C2=A0=20 Kind regards Roger Lapthorn=C2=A0 G3XBM=C2=A0 (500kHz NoV holder) --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email=20 ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email=20 ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 =20 --0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413" --0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done Roger
 
What happens with hard of hearing audio induction loops, they are eve= ry where nowadays?
 
Does this mean if we put a an OFW305 they will issue us with an NOV?<= /DIV>
 
I am typing mine now!
 
Thanks to G4JNT previously and Good Work Roger!!

73 es GL= petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthor= n@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.c= om>
Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday, 25 Februa= ry, 2010, 17:19

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wil= kinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:= Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk>
Date: 25 February 201= 0 15:20
Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?
To: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>= ;


Hello Roger,

Well, quicker than I= thought we=E2=80=99d be I have some info for you regarding the possibilit= y of operating on 9kHz.

Apparently Ofcoms=E2= =80=99 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006 by Colin Thom= as G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time= there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. Howe= ver nothing came of it on that occasion.

That has though allow= ed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no re= ason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz. The= y state that ITU Radio Regs indicat= e that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the= UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for= wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existin= g licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on= 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basi= s to other active facilities and systems using that part of the spectrum.= We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached= during the original enquires to confirm that they remain content with the= agreed arrangements.  All this, will of course, need to be done prior to th= e NoV being granted.

So it does seem a pos= sibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an appl= ication from for a Special Research Permit available at:

www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licen= sing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw306.pdf

Please provide as muc= h detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropriate= colleagues.

I hope that helps.

Vy 73

Rod

Rod= WilkinsonOLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

O= fcom

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org= .uk

 <= /SPAN>

Have you changed = your address recently?

Update your details on the Ofcom= Amat= eur and Ships Li= censing Service

 =

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">

 =

From:= Roger Lapthorn [m= ailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 February= 2010 10:33 AM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Re: Special= Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

 

Many thanks Rod.
I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OF= COM regarding operation below 9kHz.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk> wrote:

Rod= Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

O= fcom

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org= .uk

 <= /SPAN>

Have you changed = your address recently?

Update your details on the Ofcom= Amat= eur and Ships Li= censing Service

 =

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">

 =

From:= Roger Lapthorn [m= ailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 February= 2010 10:43 PM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Special Perm= its for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

 

Dear Rod,

On the RSGB's LF reflector, there ha= s been some discussion in the last few days about experimentation at frequ= encies below 9kHz. Many years ago (around 1970) I held a couple of Test an= d Development licences (G9BGU and G9BIB) for such experiments and I wrote= up the results in Radio Communications magazine in 1975. It's a fascinati= ng part of the spectrum to explore.

In some countries the approval= authorities have simply said that below 9kHz is not allocated by the ITU= and therefore they have no issues with amateurs operating experimentally= in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am aware, the only use for freq= uencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whist= ler reception, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (al= though I believe this has now been replaced by other methods) and some slo= w data rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagin= e amateur operation being a credible interference threat to any of these.

At= such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a tr= aditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiation= immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and purp= oses, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so cal= led "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense.= Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range very limi= ted. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experim= enting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at thes= e basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS60= or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulat= ion modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at= best rather than hundreds of kilometres).

So, I wonder what OFCOM'= s view would be. Would a permit be needed at all? If yes, would OFCOM issue Spec= ial Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-case basis as at 500kHz? 
Kind regards

Roger Lapthorn  G3XBM  (500kHz NoV hol= der)

--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP= 1678      ISWL G11088


****= **************************************************************************= ************************************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org= .uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intend= ed for the use of the addressee only.

If you have received this ema= il in error please notify the originator of the message and delete it from= your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you= open any attachments at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this= message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views= or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise.
***********************************************************= *******************************************************

____= __________________________________________________________________
This= email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For= more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
= ______________________________________________________________________




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.b= logspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/= G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088<= /DIV>


*************= **************************************************************************= ***************************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk
This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for th= e use of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in err= or please notify the originator of the message and delete it from your sys= tem.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any= attachments at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message= are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opin= ions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise.
***********************************************************= *******************************************************

____= __________________________________________________________________
This= email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For= more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
= ______________________________________________________________________
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--

http://g3xbm-qr= p.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b864bcd7e87 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC081-86044b82f82fe0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:33:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 491D238000092; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjftU-00051S-1t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjftT-00051I-MC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:43 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjftR-0005ew-3B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:43 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801607B8048 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64AAF31E705 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:59 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZwAAIOX4AACHOB4A== Message-ID: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop>,<38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b82f82d71e4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainla= nd Europe as counterweight ;-) Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipol= e? 73, Chris G4OKW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF051-5ef24b718c4324f; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:24:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B93D1380010E0; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ness3-0003xe-9S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ness2-0003xV-Qv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ness0-0002dT-Kc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsGACsbcUtZ8Y7s/2dsb2JhbACHe9JYhFQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,437,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="301834325" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.142.236]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 16:23:17 +0000 Message-ID: <001201caa9a4$2edb86f0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:23:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: DX on 600m Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b718c405786 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Well done Albert I have worked across on 500 using qrs3 several times last year. 73 and gl de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: LF: DX on 600m > To all, > > This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in > FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 > kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a > couple of nights. > > 73, Albert PA0A > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC074-a97e4b859a3bc4; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4472638000075; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOmW-0007TH-C5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOmW-0007T8-0u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:32 +0000 Received: from warsl404pip4.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.117] helo=email.aon.at) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOmT-0007ki-5W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 11326 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2010 21:28:21 -0000 Received: from 188-23-67-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO [192.168.1.101]) ([188.23.67.238]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub93.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Feb 2010 21:28:21 -0000 From: Gerhard Hickl To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:28:20 +0100 Message-ID: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b859a3904c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello group! I know, it's a little bit "off topic" but if anyone is interested: Today two big MF-Antennas (585kc and 1674kc) located very closely to Vienna had been taken down. The smaller tower was 120m high and the other about 265m. The latter was the highest man-made object in Austria until today 14:00z. The power of the transmitters was up to 600kW. I don't know about other countries but at least in Austria MF is "dead" since several years. If you talk to younger people, they hardly know what you mean by "MF". The site name of the two antennas is "Bisamberg" or maybe "Vienna, Bisamberg" and if someone is interested, please search on the web. There are a lot of infos and even the video of destroying the antennas by explosions today. I don't appreciate this senseless act of destruction and in my opinion in was a wrong decision by the responsible people. But, as always, nobody asked me. Cheers and 73 OE3GHB Gerhard From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b8406ef322; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EDA87380000AB; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxvE-0002Mf-LI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxvE-0002MW-B4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxvC-0005Js-NV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: (qmail 31276 invoked by uid 507); 23 Feb 2010 17:47:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 17:47:22 +0100 Message-ID: <201002231747340421.06FDF639@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:47:34 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: rosemary.border@numeo.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Test at 1645z 23 Feb 2010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b8406ec71dd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Some of my effusions don't seem to be getting through and some are delayed. F5VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.208]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF052-5ef34b83ef013d; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 854BB38000085; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjwKU-0001MW-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjwKU-0001MN-1Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjwKR-00048j-3l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NF5bdm018170 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0hTyc/6I2WNK3SrSmSR0NcpIY5QADNuuu References: <757273.75752.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.144828 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64" Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55405 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d04b83eeff23d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alan, =20 Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be neglectible, co= mpared to the ground losses. And one has the advantege to reach a high C= that is easy to adjust/modify and cheep and that has no overvoltage and= heating problems. Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same= , in principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a lossy diele= ctricum? ;-) =20 Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, of course, but= it may be difficult to get proper C at those voltages. And if we are talk= ing about connecting the end of a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the= next question is: Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A= coax, say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the inner line.= But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it back to the shack and co= nnecting to ground would mean not to use the soil as the conductor any mor= e and throwing the coax just on the bottom would be nonsense since then,= one could just take a standard wire which is principally almost the same= like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would mean to require 100s= of m of cable to get the same C. And in such a configuration a high C to= ground is essential since one wants to have a practicable small L for res= onance (to handle the losses). =20 Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs just a high C= with less voltage (probably <1kV).=20 If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal section and make a re= ctangular loop out of it, the XL will be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then= a C of abt 1=B5F will resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm= losses will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no problem= to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is much easier since no= L and maybe even no R transformation is necessary. And with a horizontal= section of <50m, the increased loop area when using the ground/soil may= be not really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with a hig= h R and/or less Q... =20 =20 Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell his ideas. Mark= us? Go on! ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I worry that this= will form a lossy capacitor because the dielectric a think film of ali ox= ide will break down in places at this voltage and also there is the inknow= n of the contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can be= a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as a capacitor in= an HV pulse generator many years ago and though the spec is 6kV it certai= nly survived 15kV with no burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed= this format at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either= of us did any tests. I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative old TV EHT type?? Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a lot less to carry= if you are operating "portable" Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > Rik, Alan, >=20 > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > vertical loop by using the ground. >=20 > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper > C (to ground), especially when talking about high voltages > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and easy to > adjust/modify... >=20 > Stefan > > ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiYPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IFZMRl84 Ljc5IGtIegA6BgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAXABAABQAlAAIANgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFwAQAAUAJQAC ADYBAQmAAQAhAAAANjUzNURDOUI1M0M2MDI0MUExQjBEMUZGMDg3QkQ3RkEARQcBA5AGAOAXAAA4 AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAZPoFqJm0ygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9 REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSC0xMDAyMjMxNTA1MzdaLTEwMjAAAAAeAEkAAQAA ABkAAABSZTogQVc6IExGOiBWTEZfOC43OSBrSHoAAAAAQABOAIAYTxiEtMoBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAA b3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+ oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwBTTVRQAG93 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mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-dc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC044-86a24b7fc608d4; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:22:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C1CB63800009F; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:22:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NinOd-0001bN-Jv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NinOd-0001bE-7F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NinOb-00070k-1M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1KBL6c6003472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:06 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:06 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: Loran A and C Thread-Index: AcqyHssBLjzcbpHmRi2QkoMbJSUPKg== Message-ID: <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> References: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> In-Reply-To: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7fc6064b76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar= rates, walking through one another in time. I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse= group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chitt= ering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit"= and the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4= of the way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you= hear "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just= before half way through the recording. The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and lower= audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through to= nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presumabl= y this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though the= treble will be represented by both the parts just above 90kHz and those= just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this is= caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what Lawrence described= as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing". Could som= eone more knowledgable than me comment on that? * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see only= one half of the spectrum. For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA073-863f4b6dff7a1d5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:47:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6D35380000F3; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NduLb-0006jg-NX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NduLb-0006jX-5X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NduLY-0007fI-OI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16NjUih002610 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:45:31 -0500 Received: from G4gvw@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cf1.6dd3643f (37252) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([92.21.38.152]) by cia-ma07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA072-91844b6dff122e7; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:45:28 -0500 From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:23 +0000 Message-Id: <1265499924.4877.10.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: G4gvw@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b6dff784a6a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi All, I have not been following this particularly well but would like offer another alternative approach. With the plethora of low-cost offerings in the 2.4Ghz and other "free" bands how about a low-power battery operated RF link as a means of decoupling the antenna from a supporting structure or cable. Such a device might be Solar charged during the daylight hours and continuously transmit the signal from the antenna(e) to a suitable Rx over a considerable distance given suitable link antenna arrangments. This obviates the necessity to provide a physical path for an optic or other transmission line and has the elegance of being "radio" at frequencies in "our" part of the electromagnetic spectrum. My apologies if someone has already suggested this - it does seem kinda obvious from the bit of the wall that I'm coming off! On Sat, 2010-02-06 at 23:50 +0100, Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer wrote: > Hi Victor,=20 > =20 > Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design or= also with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28= V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-) > Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically") apart= from the house? > =20 > "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decr= eased, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases and the in= fluence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus the in= put voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the same.= And if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visible= signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noi= selevel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be a noise= source in the near of the shed, isn't it? > =20 > I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2 UKW= variable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends wh= en it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful bu= t interesting ;-) > =20 > You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? > A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse, when= you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that? Or= is the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) > =20 > Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that conversatio= n and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the bes= t signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p.= =20 > =20 > Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contact to= VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the lon= gest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal :-) > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > =20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@online.n= l > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast >=20 >=20 > Hello Stefan,Roelof, > =20 > for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The an= tenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height be= tween 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a= low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and= higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to= 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment= I replaced the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thi= ng.This could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the= same potential as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glass= fibre changes things but for me this is not very practical because my whip= draws 120mA @ 28V. > Hope to hear more from your experiments, > =20 > 73 > Victor > PA3FNY >=20 > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]= Namens Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast > =20 > =20 > Hi Roelof, LF, > =20 > Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question= ! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a sign= al but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the= application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast,= the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ve= ry high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active elemen= t (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm= sources? I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are= comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) > =20 > A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since= in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, eve= n when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has jus= t a few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen,= when the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element= (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in= the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one= has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a= short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that= is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground pl= ane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignorin= g the local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? > =20 > On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active anten= na mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy= bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active elemen= t since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length= was still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal= ! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? > =20 > I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through= the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy en= vironment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also= 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, eve= n without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. > =20 > What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same= "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 > =20 > Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pl= ay with ;-) > =20 > 73!! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted > =20 > =20 >=20 > Hello Stefan, > =20 > Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't= work=20 > well on a metalic mast. > I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a= =20 > suitable mast. > =20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > =20 > =20 --=20 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b819111161; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 973E13800009D; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyZ-0007JT-NM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyZ-0007JK-9p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHyX-0004eG-Gr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1LK0JRI015004 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:20 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: AcqyWEUMEAOjC6K9TNmkK+3cLXxnVQA1u+oq References: <11800210.1207699.1266689280876.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.21.194820 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB330.7E6A87E6" Subject: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b81910f51fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB330.7E6A87E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Horst,=20 =20 Interesting VLF tests! And Alans hint is a good i think.=20 =20 Does one need a special licence for that band in germany? I am almost sure= about that ;-) What are the limitations of that licence? ERP or output po= wer?=20 =20 I think i would try a long long long short dipole, e.g. 2x500m in some met= ers above ground, perhaps beside a forrest and with less conducting ground= . Maybe even with the ends connected to ground to form something like a lo= op that has the most of its area in the ground. =20 What is your locator? =20 And what have you done to be of those who have got this licence? =20 =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Sa 20.02.2010 19:08 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Despite I do not expect that anyone will receive the transmission, I'll gi= ve it a try. The beacon ist transmitting on 8.79 kHz in QRSS until tomorrow morning. Horst DO1KHS ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=FCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! 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11 Feb 2010 15:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffqz-0001Ys-KA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffqz-0001Yj-96 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: from mail-pw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nffqx-0004z4-Cd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: by pwj9 with SMTP id 9so83459pwj.16 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:41:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Ug1aeMdzyhkvE6kOep8sLeG1L97ZwUwwfTSSJO6orTk=; b=lFqWzoK5u3ZskrgqCIUXH6I8UkpB6OIl6yIHcNYEVLSBObp5hdIFv7Kb1ND9kSpTPt 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SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d225.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b746bb73c6b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.
--000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.11.13]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA052-86154b7bc588133; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:36 -0500 Received: from mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.78]) by imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Inbound Mail Deferral) with ESMTP id 8C8497001CE74; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ED12538000401; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhhAZ-0007J4-Gj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhhAY-0007Iv-N3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:10 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhhAW-0007SB-5R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:10 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Feb 2010 10:30:00 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2010 11:30:00 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/XKlZrJ+3XLkU047YqspkpaG2wXxA0J7jbyijSOE r13ZDxQvzgB47q Message-ID: <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:29:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002,0.46000000000000002 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404e4b7bc5855c86 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W= , with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it= must be 3:1 teh only=20 solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages.= Indeed, it does turn out=20 to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone= exchange' PSU (50V 25 A)=20 and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the PSU= current limited when=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it= current limited at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). = So it really was giving=20 more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in= fact, if used as a=20 switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 70= 0W 137kHz Tx,=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enough said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz wher= e the transformers began=20 to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / efficienc= y. So as a 13.56MHz=20 industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp. BUT= , with suitable change of=20 output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137= or 500kHz - if a suitable=20 PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentation done,= and any further work can=20 wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and refer= ring to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z)= transfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above= design to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc= path from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connected to= the center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coa= x section (1:9 or higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondary is= nowhere connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit= in linear mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power= on the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losse= s of the low pass filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF he= ater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the cal= culations said it needed=20 to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise kno= wn as a bootstrapped=20 coaxial transformer, but just configured with different reference poin= ts to confuse everyone.=20 Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the= answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bit= s of coax, which are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 imped= ance). Add another turn,=20 so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange= the grounding points and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA= has two separate, non=20 magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA pra= ctice, and being so normal=20 in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enabl= es the designer to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced= operation, and even to=20 provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one end to be completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is= permitted with the basic=20 Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 tr= ansformation by the same=20 bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as= a twisted pair rather than=20 coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of= HF antenna constructors.=20 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax giving one turn more=20 than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ..= . On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and= %20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org] namens Andy=20 Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.co= m Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/1= 6/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).
> So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought= to'
 
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with= a 1kW slug=20 would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW element +/-125W.
Power master is a bit better with +/-= =20 30W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Tuesday, February 16,= 2010 8:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity

A follow up to this sage  
 
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how= it must=20 be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.  So I connecte= d up and=20 measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - &n= bsp;=20 So   how could it deliver 1kW plus...
 
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink,  got out the 't= elephone=20 exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would=20 give.   Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplyi= ng only=20 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limi= ted at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off=20 44V).    So it really was giving more power out than= it 'ought=20 to'
 
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element an= d in fact,=20 if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.   I'd= used this=20 aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf =20 and forgot it.   Enough said.
 
Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about= 5MHz=20 where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where= the FETs=20 lost gain / efficiency.   So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit= its fine,=20 but of little use as a general HF amp.   BUT, with suitabl= e change=20 of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on= 137 or=20 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.  That's where it sits= =20 now.   Experimentation done, and any further work can wait= for other=20 projects to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net>=20 wrote:
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over the= transformer of=20 Andy's PA and referring to
=
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%) = sure that it=20 is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points whic= h exclude=20 *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,<= FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers provide= no dc=20 isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.
There is no such dc path= =20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the=20 braid of one coax end is connected= to=20 the center
conductor at the= start of the=20 same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1:9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this desi= gn.The=20 center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.
 
BTW there is no reason to worry= about the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven= you get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so= you have=20 enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used=20 as industrial RF heater=20
was designed to be superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February= 09, 2010=20 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA= matching=20 oddity

BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it,=20 convincing.  Sorted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio)=  just=20 as the calculations said it needed to be, and is indee= d,=20 effectively, an auto transformer.  Otherwise known as a boo= tstrapped=20 coaxial transformer, but just configured with different referenc= e=20 points to confuse everyone. Your second reference= , the=20 Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)  gives the answer. &nb= sp;
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9 Ruthroff&nbs= p; =20 UnUn .   With just two bits of coax, which= are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9= =20 impedance).   Add another turn, so three windings are&= nbsp;=20 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding poin= ts and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosf= et=20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pull= HF PA=20 practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hi= des=20 hides a big real advantage - it enables the designer= to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced=20 operation, and even to provide DC isolation,   Any con= ductor=20 passing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf = ;decoupled=20 from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitte= d with the=20 basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giv= ing 1:2=20 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when= the=20 transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, th= en wrapped=20 on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF= =20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression tha= t helps=20 illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax giving one= turn more=20 than it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial cris= is ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe= <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:


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Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
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------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.165]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB064-a77f4b6dbc0b220; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:59:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F7BF3800005F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdprN-0005qC-Pv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdprN-0005q3-EG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from mail.tula.net ([212.12.0.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdprL-00069R-72 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from [212.12.27.30] (account ua3pw@home.tula.net HELO ua3pw59fc4bf05) by mail.tula.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTPA id 61629584 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:58:22 +0300 Message-ID: <00b901caa75e$5a8795c0$0501a8c0@ua3pw59fc4bf05> From: "UA3PW" To: References: <20714.4cd687f9.389eb751@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:58:21 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: : Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecf4b6dbc095b28 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI dear Nicolas and LF . Many thanks for information . Victor ua3pw / ko93jv . Thanx Markus for this information. Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI dear Nicolas and LF .
Many thanks for information .
 
Victor ua3pw / ko93jv .

Thanx Markus for this information.
Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France.
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Miniwhip
 
------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b6d9d2fea; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:47:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0ABD538000118; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:47:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndnnw-0005EK-RK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndnnw-0005EB-C7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndnnu-0005GX-BP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o16GkdNg022503 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:46:41 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:46:39 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:46:39 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: active ant on metallic mast Thread-Index: AcqnLBzyrShBW58pQ76YPb9JbK7HfgAGwooB References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.6.163624 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9" Subject: LF: active ant on metallic mast X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b6d9d2d6d19 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roelof, LF, =20 Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question! "Won= 't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a signal but= perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the applica= tion is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, the capa= city of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be very high= (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (gate= of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) =20 A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since in a= coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even whe= n a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, whe= n the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the opt= imal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to= define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short= dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is dir= ectly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.= g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the= local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? =20 On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active antenna mou= nted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy bad.= I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element sin= ce signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So= less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? =20 I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through the am= bience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environme= nt (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m up an= d DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even without= local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by more gain= but SNR decreases, of course. =20 What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen if th= e ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active element? Wh= at will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "impo= rtance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 =20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p UKW= radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to play= with ;-) =20 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't work= =20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a=20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIAAAAExGOiBhY3RpdmUgYW50IG9u IG1ldGFsbGljIG1hc3QACAsBBYADAA4AAADaBwIABgARAC4AJwAGAFUBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAYA EQAuACcABgBVAQEJgAEAIQAAAEU5NUQ1RTE1MzBDRDBFNEZBMjY3NTUxQjc3Rjc4N0Y0AEEHAQOQ BgCIFwAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ALlXD/RLp8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAATEY6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAA ADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwNjE2NDYzOVotNDM4AAAA HgBJAAEAAAAjAAAAUmU6IExGOiBBVzogUmU6IHRlc3Qgc2lnbmFsIHdhbnRlZAAAQABOAIDVfVYr p8oBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEA AABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3No 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ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b6f051338e; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D282C38000127; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:23:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBmF-00038q-PX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBmF-00038h-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeBmE-0002Yj-2d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from COL122-W36 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:22:27 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:22:27 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 18:22:27.0054 (UTC) FILETIME=[806E30E0:01CAA822] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_" Subject: LF: G4JNT_beacon X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b6f051129da X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_" --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! The beacon of G4JNT is very good visible just now. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
The beacon of G4JNT is very good visible just now.

Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn= =E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Micro= soft Zaregistrovat =3D --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_-- --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100207_G4JNT.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABeAJsDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwDBxn tRRRQAUUUUAFFSzWtxbBDPBLFvGV3oV3D1GetRUAFFFFABRRRQAUVonRLwRpIohlVuT5EyTFf94I SR+VIdD1QRtJ9guSi9T5TfyxmldbgZ9FXpdJvbdY2ntpIw/QsMDFVZYJYCBKhXPIz0P0oTT2Ajoo opgFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFTWrRpdwtNEJYg4LxlioYZ5GR0+tQ0UAdz4l1jR3+zxrpdu4C5Ux6i9wV H93cTx9MCsW21XQ4p1e40MXEY+9Ebl03fiOlYFFYqjFK13950rFTUeWy+5Fm/mtri9lls7X7Lbsc pD5hfYP948mt221vwzFbxRz+ExMyxBXk+3yqzvjluOBn0xXM0VcoKSs/zMIysWrma0k1AzW9o0Nt uB8gyl8DuN2Aa059U0WSd3h0TyIiflj+0M20emT1rCopygnuXSrSpO8bfNXPWfCmoaLpVoPtujTa U8vWe43+XMOoPzDHT0rp5vFPhxUENtqNl5h6iAlM+3yLkn8a8Ga8unjjja5mZIhiNS5IT6DtUFcF TLoVJ87k/v0E6rbbPc08TaPZSYbVoklGSIw0j7fyUmuZ8T+J/DVzZwrNpVvqsp3FZ476RWTPc5Gf wI7V5lSk5A4/Gt1hIqXM2yeYSiiiuokKKKKACiiigAoopSSepJ7UAJRSnGflJI9xikoAKKKKACii igAoortNI8LQ3WiWV5F4e8Qa89wjPLJpMoVLZg7L5TjyZPn2qr8kcSL8vcgHF0VqeIdNh0nW5rOB pCipG5jlILwsyKzROQB88bMUbgcoflXoMwY7igBKKKKACiiuk8L6FDq9veztp+parPA8SJp2mOFn ZWDlpc+XIdiFFU/L1lX5h0YA5uiuk8UaFDpFvZTrp+paVPO8qPp2puGnVVCFZc+XGdjl2UfL1ib5 j0Xm6ACiiigAoBIIIOCKKMYoAVmLMWYkk8knvSUUUAFKMd6SigAooooAK6i316w03QbOOzsLGa88 pxKbm0jkeO583Ily6MHjMDCMRk4DBn2hgrNy9d54It/COoJZWOrzXcUrXsbXkM+qC2tZow3Dj90R lUaTIaRDj7jEvtUA5fxDNY3GtzSacI/IKRhmij2JJKEUSui4G1GkDsq4XAIG1fujLq5ql1DeX7TW 63awbESNbu4E8iqqBQC4VQQAMAbRgADtVOgAooooAK6TwvdWNvb3qyXOm2eoO8RgudTs/tUAiAfz E2eXJhyxiIbZwEYbhnDc3XWeC7LSNQdra91SPTbuS9tk85rgwE2bLKl0Fc/uwdrIcPjIBAyTtIBX 8UXVjcW9ksdzpt5qCPKZ7nTLP7LAYiE8tNnlx5cMJSW2ch1G44wvN10GuXNldaHpcltDBZTNLOz2 FrPJJDGn7tVlxI7lZHKuCNwyscZ2gEFufoAKKKKAClGOc59qSigAo6UUUAFKQR1HWkpQM8d6AEoJ yaKKACu40fxF9n8OWscOueI9Cjs/3NwdJg3wzyO8jrJIwmjxIV+TBBO2Ec4GF4eu40TUdCi0GCL7 RpVrfCJl3X+nm4K3Xmk+cx8p8w+R+6Cc4kIbyxjzAAV79LfWLrxNfz2c6SW+lW08D3AKSSP5trGb hwDy0qu0hyW5lzljhjx9dp51jcDxlJpwj8g6Pbhmij2JJKLm0ErouBtRpA7KuFwCBtX7o4ugAooo oAK6jwjq32GK+tYrrVdPuptsy3+kxeZOkcSyGSMjeh8sgh2O7A8lcg9V5euo8IXmhWn2n+2Eg5lh Z/PgMvm2o3+fDHwdkz5j2v8ALja37xM8gGwlzb+KPEPhOxvJtV1i1m1UQTalqaGOSZHeENbgiRzt QZbh+DOeF6t5/XoemXVjceOvBix3Om3moJrERnudMs/ssBiMsXlps8uPLhhKSdnIdRuOML55QAUU UUAFHGPelBwc4zQzM5yzFj6k5oASl4wfWkooAKKKKACiiigAroLHxXNYaHHp8WnaU00UpdLqbTba Z2Q5yjmSNi2DgqcjGWB3Dbs5+igDoLTWkltvEsl60EVxf6fHDCkFssSM63Nu+AkahV+SNj0Gcep5 5+lJzjpx7UlABRRRQAVsaDrx0P7YPsFjdrcRbAbm0hmaJxyroZEYDngjHzKSODtZcenAbuAACATn 1oA6bRvExk8ZeHr/AFQWNva2OoQzSPa6fDBtQSKWJEKAtgL3z3x1rl6KKAD8aKKKAP/Z --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b89f5e4259; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:49:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3B649380000B0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlb4Z-00006I-GL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlb4Y-000069-Q5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:06 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.26]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlb4W-0005r3-UR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:06 +0000 Received: from COL122-W35 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:47:57 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:47:57 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 04:47:57.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[32681270:01CAB831] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_" Subject: LF: WPF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55605 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b89f5e35925 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_" --_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crossed by= strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what it= is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The si= gnal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was= crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know= , what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the cit= y. The signal was 30dB up the noise.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG
=
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AQoBI5IHWq1FFABRRRQBbQD7LJx2qpRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQBZ09Ve+iV1DKTyCMin6miR3zqiq qjsBgUUUAU6Ud/pRRQAlFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAPl+/+AplF FABRRRQB/9k= --_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b673855f8; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:23:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2D1C238000220; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2nG-0002sE-BK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2nF-0002s5-WC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:45 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2nD-0001R3-3v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:45 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsoEADrHZktZ8d/D/2dsb2JhbACNIAPNKYRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,385,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="290210216" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.223.195]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 20:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: <002401caa37c$4632d890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:22:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: QRM 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b673852440f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OM PA3FNY can u pse qsy your qrs beacon to either the top or bottom of= the band. You are causing QRM ro cw stns in QSO MODE. You are in the= middle of the CW part of the band. DE MAL/G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OM PA3FNY can u pse qsy your qrs beac= on to either=20 the top or bottom of the band. You are causing QRM ro cw stns in QSO= MODE. You=20 are in the middle of the CW part of the band.
DE MAL/G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.18]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784b6f345f328; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:45:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EEF843800016D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:45:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEvJ-0005ut-EZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEvJ-0005uk-3g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEvH-0004YY-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 77424 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=kAIJw3NFCxPVATgGK0aLWItwIxjnd49opzFte52ZCd97665Ios/a/lzFneILyePkgnU9du+aIFSYfI6KqVqk7JunxlqeA/zuV2zwDF0luCzCjpZc/vSJEXC86VEzqv5oODexqowRnf0+x9fmBbNiYxRlYVR4ptUBqAleWH9qxT4= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 2GvJQmIVM1lf4lOTsUNISnmcqOSbOxlVHnJPA4lMtOek13LyLd2aIPg8QSc0TSkMUgG2PxngdCrhP7z39foAjDMSPksIJcU2bGDBw6IMXL1SxCx63_R62.X5wjOMyKI8ZbNfJKb2T.qMytY3fUgqtGKB5lZuWRsR9yfiUmh94QoR.rC.Z0Gy9m_qLmHcBm8szrvw9tsfH8scuBhWXXmIU56pvq1y6LO40fCLOLtC1FUcL0NDqiJyIa4.fpCoyBd_ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <2B95E52385E0403897EF3C47A9A2B6F7@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41124b6f345d30a2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Andy, LF Group, I just repeated the test with G3ZJO's rather weaker signal - reducing the audio bandwidth to 50Hz increased SNR from -13dB to +15dB! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.214]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB093-864b4b6e96ef18; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:33:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E9B54380001DE; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4R6-0001XT-5b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4R5-0001XK-Mq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:15 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4R2-0008CJ-QN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:15 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXG00GLOVXFY9@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:32:04 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:31:57 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0790133BD5734948A64FB352804421FC@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: : VO1NA 07-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d64b6e96ed2f5f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ)" --Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,welcome on 137khz. the first capture VO1NA. Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VO1NA 07-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,welcome on 137khz.
the first capture VO1NA.
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VO1NA 07-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VO1NA 07-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VO1NA 07-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABaAeMDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBgcI/8QAGAEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECBAP/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfH7u+rC2FVDCAhSiqcuAehiwMhNnWP9 4yPG/Pp9HtpeDr1rzkwA7v00+eZ7norPJi9d0cvnZepd+fNo9d1UeY4/0Fo68anfb08lD6Q8 /PMg63ozy1H0tytfN12PvkKaOR2E0W6EABQVZzKzBdfUXR6Xdcm5JCSQkkPjmynTjIxmhtLu xFwsUGNdqYym2Eqyrv8AJ81fHe4/CyOwdxeQdVncHVd3leZMj0XA4ZkddtvOzrs3+fZh298D ddvOGTHo2r5BUegDxC69H1fGyIS60Yaqq7XcXdwpqxoqgluxjy+n+j5zJ5d7m+YSdbOfebmS 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VxXorsF2eI4QTNswDxjvIm0r6uQhk+iec2Ivs/nG8axeitfvBjh1AKfYGNw5EhPzLRwCJfWU 9iDc/rK0vH/Sv7hAEy0UYlYGk1/jHoD0tL35w6i+1Z4uF3oYAmQkjzB79cabFm48uLvIzCQm IonLStqNCL2UEd+pRIiV7CAonYa0u8DhkG4T0p/EsM0TTQ6lrJlASUg9RaoTQLj8seLs3Wmg OD6hs/7B5Cl5QqpGCy8YyyTouaA9GPs3nFoV6oxPDb6YBTrM5D84+tk7Y1srgmkaS9cQQddT G063DMUnMzpdO2HDD8OMwiCzcXKxpg4cTAagbmjANIRd/OEEBDtiAqQNF4y06+1YRRBe7gM0 BoWzCVQpw+cYqVS0wGgCOp0wuI6uMaQKGEVTephBgDoMYRHYc2A7JgjZHZmPKH5c4XRzq9Tl MXlJ1bgoiKPfGIU13ze7nfORue+DAQ8g4QYNdsAUj4ZjIK2d8aAM3gKAccGEECJseuEIAOwY BoA3tgLTN1L/APgy/9k= --Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.212]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB093-864b4b6f226f1a; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:28:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CFD60380000B5; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:28:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDiu-00043q-P6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:27:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDiu-00043h-2f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:27:16 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDir-0003gU-Sb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:27:16 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4558407pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:27:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=CaqIjDqIClzYx/Qoinw/wP1L6rGTsaLhD2e9Hoc+elE=; b=UZoyROJfoJPaWAnSiDuOdFDK9MRLXPggz4sgFTXDl06Kj4c0fi3GxfOxm58hnx/a2S a6RRDkHlbrtfii6HdVA8gZWa2DGP0ni4lwvdUjWd0YPcgMXsH0Fw4AIndFyd6a1Bm4sa kx00s4t9xWSqoSLb2/gsJ42+Wmv/JDFXq6dNY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=VM+W3Np/bqG6oOKUVtsZ4XBNV5glQkoI5cKsDsvsdeBNaz84vLrCwmdR8DZ/3Gn/MC YeVuuy8M/fE4cvgtPSGJ7S2+b7O7yJRkvDxg64Omhg+F6v8Q3RWtWIyIx3tkkJe1W6ip wpTh7NcXhcOERVq1CX8n8sx/ilOIdKuL8yJFg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.213.29 with SMTP id p29mr3823900rvq.133.1265574426958; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:27:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:27:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 556b905b8f3210f7 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d44b6f226d0261 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingham= & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet. One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. Keep trying. 73, Gary - G4wgt. On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on =93= odds=94 > lets see if I make it. > > > > I=92ve had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not lettin= g go > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:50 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > OK Jim, > > > > Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding th= e > port. > > > > GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave&= #39;s grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall,= it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet.

One consolation is that it would not be visible or aud= ible for CW.

Keep trying.

73, =A0Gary - G4wgt.

On 7 February 201= 0 20:00, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

3 captures of yo= ur signal so far all about -17dB. =A0I am Txing now on =93odds=94 lets see if I make it.

=A0

I=92ve had comm= port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

=A0

OK Jim,

=A0

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag,= another app was holding the port.

=A0

GUD LUK, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be= very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (eve= n minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA043-863c4b7ef64824d; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 37946380000AE; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZZI-0006SS-FM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZZH-0006SJ-UH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:19 +0000 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiZZF-0002S9-37 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.196]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1JKZ3lu004115; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:35:03 -0500 Received: from White (e179160227.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.160.227]) by mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id BFD72E0000A7; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:34:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: "Peter Martinez" References: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55249 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c44b7ef5f32fbe X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55252 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b7ef6461005 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Laurence, good to read you're back in AK... Your observation is interesting. In your region, there should now be= two chains left on air. One is the Canadian West Coast chain on GRI= 5990, which is still supported by US stations, including your nearest= one Shoal Cove (5990 X). The other is the Russian-American GRI 5980,= which should be supported by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect= is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar rates, walking through= one another in time. The attached screenshots are the results of feeding your wav to SpecLa= b's time domain scope. Using 64 averages on 5990, AM-demodulated pulse= groups from all stations from the West Canadian chain are visible. The= timescale appears a bit too long because the actual samplerate was cl= ose to 22.200 kHz, rather than 22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When goin= g to 5980, we can see only a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unus= ual format for Loran-C, probably indicating an error condition by "bli= nking" the first two of the eight pulses. One possible reason for this= might be the Russian master being down. It would be interesting to look at an SSB recording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB= ). This could reveal phase coding within the pulsegroups, and possibly= allow verification of the blinking secondary. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Laurence KL1X=20 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Loran A and C =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Lor= an on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky wave= s did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the Ame= rican 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I= took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permet= er E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly ph= asing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing= it before but of course a lot of the chains/half rate are off so....= Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today= up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link= of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file= beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pre= tty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this= evening but low power as Im playing with the matching - ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up= now. =3D=20 ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Laurence,
 
good to read you're back in AK...
 
Your observation is interesting. In your= region,=20 there should now be two chains left on air. One is the= Canadian=20 West Coast chain on GRI 5990, which is still supported by US=20 stations, including your nearest one Shoal Cove (5990 X). Th= e other is=20 the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be supporte= d by Attu=20 (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegro= ups of=20 these very similar rates, walking through one another in time.
 
The attached screenshots are the results of&nb= sp;feeding=20 your wav to SpecLab's time domain scope. Using 64 averages= on 5990,=20 AM-demodulated pulsegroups from all stations from the West Canadian ch= ain are=20 visible. The timescale appears a bit too long because the ac= tual=20 samplerate was close to 22.200 kHz, rather than 22.050= as assumed=20 by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can see only a single group of= 6 pulses.=20 This is an unusual format for Loran-C, probably indicating an error co= ndition by=20 "blinking" the first two of the eight pulses. One possible reason for= this=20 might be the Russian master being down.
 
It would be interesting to look at an SSB= recording=20 (eg. 98.25 kHz USB). This could reveal phase coding wit= hin the=20 pulsegroups, and possibly allow verification of the blinking=20 secondary.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
=
 
Being of a certain age  I oft recall=20 the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the mus= ical=20 sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the= closedown=20 of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and= Russian=20 chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m= ) permeter=20 E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasi= ng noise=20 very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before= but of=20 course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whe= ther this=20 is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of= iono=20 smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like= from here=20 in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards= the=20 end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP= 51 Eye=20 Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
ps=20 the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good -=20 Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low=20 power as Im playing with the matching -

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. 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++zJk+qwMzssKXXSyegOnaInh47jr5T5OJ3/G/2Meu7S3urJmorstidPMX4wL7LPnuynkoq0 yA47s8OSUmmRfZbdz6xuxaLIPnuyZ2bMId4p9j6nKJIo14/rOAaTPbm5E6coEnrT885cynwc +81wfXZpzxv8pHKpfic6LCmVFtln2eMYTDpu3ZW0yA47s8OSUmf5WJ6RnrzV8/z2T5+nSix0 XuSpv8mokyI7/1KJ0SmKHE5yRtQpipyc95uM+inyFO+4IqOcpcj0eq/xxuFFPk/KBACgH2bM AQCIJ2UCABBPygQAIJ6UCQBAPCkTAIB4UiYAAPH8wiTwKtIvCt34Ffqn+AZ+gKNImcCrSH8V XUYE2I+UCbyuMXFO/5+Wt/zOR/ozVHc0AvDEnJcJ8N/IOP6U9pgLx4XzJQ9oBOBpGMsEKI4y 3pQLs41M4XIMmveVB3BGUiZAUUguTM8HBXgFZswB1i0GNdsj4/ykTDPmwEsxlgmQN8+Fdw9D hjQCcEbffv388fvP36PLAADgqZgxBwAgnpQJAEA8KRMAgHj/ASdnzIQsRbCoAAAAAElFTkSu QmCC ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.207]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF023-8bcf4b6714976f; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:51:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 416E13800D9A7; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NbzgK-0002E8-3v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NbzgJ-0002Dz-Oq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:23 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NbzgG-00006J-DS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:23 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhwFABSYZktOlGzA/2dsb2JhbACNHwOOeb5ihEUE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,384,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295776690" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.148.108.192]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 17:02:57 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01caa360$62ebf820$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: MARCONI JEEP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b670a772376 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems the old MJ (marconi jeep) T1154 is popular in Holland for use= on 500 and one GW stn using an old OCEAN SPAN (another variation of= the jeep for marine use). Look out for a T7 chirp=20 G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It seems the old MJ (marconi jeep) T1= 154 is popular=20 in Holland for use on 500 and one GW stn using an old OCEAN SPAN (anot= her=20 variation of the jeep for marine use). Look out for a T7=20 chirp 
G3KEV
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE063-5eb84b8307ff384; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:41:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D726538000134; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:41:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njgwa-0005mG-3P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:40:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgwZ-0005m7-Kd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:59 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgwX-0006Bo-1p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:59 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id B985D51C004 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB936F3862 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:50 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:37:49 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5kOPJfwyNXJzQ56vS7rOj26Y0wAJjtCOAADKj+k= Message-ID: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com><9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com>,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b8307fc7109 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > But with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered. indeed, but "the whole world" is merely 5 wavelengths at 76Hz ... 73, Rik --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Bu= t with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered.
 
indeed, but "the who= le world" is merely 5 wavelengths at 76Hz ...
 
73, Rik
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.149]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD104-86b24b6d84a565; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:03:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B14573800019C; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdmAI-0004xh-OR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdmAI-0004xY-AZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from mx74.mail.ru ([94.100.176.89]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdmAF-0004cs-Mv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=17999 helo=EFREMOV) by mx74.mail.ru with asmtp id 1NdmA8-0004b1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:01:32 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <004e01caa73d$41d9d900$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:59:42 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,URIBL_SBL=1.094 Subject: LF: Who it, what is it (137.693 khz)? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40954b6d84a325f9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 LF-group, My capture last night: http://rn3agc.msk.ru/filez/100206-137693.jpg Image from grabber DF6NM: http://rn3agc.msk.ru/filez/100206-137693-2.jpg Also the signal was visible and on all other European grabbers. 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA034-86634b8662f022a; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:45:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7AB4B380000B0; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkc9B-0002hL-Kx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkc9B-0002hC-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 Received: from mail3.uk.thalesgroup.com ([194.30.184.68] helo=alfaes02.gwserv.thalesgroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkc98-0003rZ-Hm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,539,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="2612014" Received: from echoes01.gwserv.thalesgroup.com (HELO gwserv.thalesgroup.com) ([172.31.141.5]) by alfaes02.gwserv.thalesgroup.com with ESMTP; 25 Feb 2010 11:38:45 +0000 Received: from ([193.150.182.142]) by echoes01.gwserv.thalesgroup.com with ESMTP id 8BYFQH1.1553176; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:36:38 +0000 Received: by temps153538.tms-ltd.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:33 -0000 Message-ID: <8E8D23D235D70840B6582917DF27898006935CAB@temps153538.tms-ltd.com> From: Reeves Paul To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b8662eb0a56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Andy, Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse through the document - too much info........ 73's Paul G8GJA -----Original Message----- From: Andy Talbot [mailto:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Sent: 25 February 2010 11:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with. In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna : At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = 88*10^6 m^2 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal. A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted. Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state. Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ? So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy. When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth. That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov < fitec@omskcity.com > wrote: Hellow, Stefan. > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km it should be approximately right. This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of this company is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Andy,
 
Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse through the document - too much info........
 
73's
Paul    G8GJA
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Talbot [mailto:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
Sent: 25 February 2010 11:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers

From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB.   This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with.
 
In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna.  Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast
 
To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna :
At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m,   G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2,   G = 1,   so  A =  88*10^6  m^2
 
1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is  1.1E-11 W/m^2
Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377)
= 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,    or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz)
 
So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth
 
Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal.   A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted.
 
Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state.   Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ?   
 
So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy.    When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth.   That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km
 
On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
Hellow, Stefan.

> If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be
> reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz

With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be
recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be
very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas
about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km
it should be approximately right.


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Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.


------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.221]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b68137a3f; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:58:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 45AB2380000EC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 06:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcHNj-0005Et-2U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcHNi-0005Ek-Lz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:22 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcHNf-0006jv-Rb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 26170 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=V0CxfULUDFVaDhTcwigye2dVKRzLxE26f990Ekhlu3Zw0Ys9tYJYapmilyEbq7DJhOpU+gwAnZ0WDQLAFFYZTe5TGE9Tyilx/ManNd1PUsxu8RMWmI/FwAFtD6JvbtXIjGsjHuI+zDr3sYj6djDh22NpJLau4avmRvAEocaKQjI= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: VFHX2QkVM1loEbqn.2W83.NVnneCXet1ZvYtM.ZNk9m5gGS8nkzKZSycAYOBRlmqsSAWQkWtC7HmTlRhDDShptaVICWa3iPTF1Zbr6JTQMoJ.9doPeyqOnhJHK_qXlSn9GpV2ql_w.8Zaj.pOxBY2AYolUEl9d1Lku2f7dvLKQTAhyz2s4Zxble.0zzE.ECEHCadmSsF00Z_0GMuUaTDzT5fyIOT1U0j6vnOuHyocJzLruiuqXSzZ0PSfPFvL2PmcmYoXLpp8_3x.uyTRAb6tfZpD.La2AlhD9Mmzg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> In-Reply-To: <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dd4b6813792d2f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres, rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring precision optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm > multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA091-85eb4b6b2cfd322; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:24:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DA620380000A5; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8EB-000663-6R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8EA-00065u-Qs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:02 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd8E8-0003sy-2p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:02 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o14KMwVG017888 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:22:59 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:22:58 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:22:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE6@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE6@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: OE5ODL Thread-Index: AcqljtjzVJd12q+cSHqqPZQnT7BYegASNu9V References: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.4.201224 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321" Subject: LF:OE5ODL X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b6b2cfb1dab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ossi, what is the power you have in the moment? Tell it in -X dB to ful= l power if you want ;-) =20 73, Stefan ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjsUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEACgAAAExGOk9FNU9ETAB0AgEFgAMA DgAAANoHAgAEABUAFgAAAAQAFgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIABAAVABYAOgAEAFABAQmAAQAhAAAAN0Q1 QkIzN0NENjMyNEE0MUJGOTUyRThCQzhDRDNFOEYAeQcBA5AGAOAJAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA /cywtNelygEeAD0AAQAAAAQAAABMRjoAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxF LVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDQyMDIyNThaLTM5MwAAAB4ASQABAAAACgAAAExGOiBEZWNjYQAAAEAA TgCAjjb3jaXKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcA AAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBA YmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAC AVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVSLVJTR0JfTEZfR1JPVVBAQkxBQ0tTSEVFUC5PUkcAHgBdAAEA AAANAAAATHVib3MgT0syQlZHAAAAAAIBXgABAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAA AEx1Ym9zIE9LMkJWRwBTTVRQAGJ2Z2JvYkBob3RtYWlsLmNvbQAAAAACAV8AAQAAABgAAABTTVRQ OkJWR0JPQkBIT1RNQUlMLkNPTQAeAGYAAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AZwABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVy LXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AaAABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBpAAEA AAATAAAAYnZnYm9iQGhvdG1haWwuY29tAAAeAHAAAQAAAAcAAABPRTVPREwAAAIBcQABAAAAGwAA AAHKpY7Y81SXddqvnEh6qj2UJ0+wWHoAEjbvVQAeAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJs YWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwBAAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAAAcAAABP RTVPREwAAAIBCRABAAAA1wIAANMCAAB/BgAATFpGdRTVg+MDAAoAcmNwZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMw PwEDAfcKgAKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKA/xADAFAEVghVB7IR1Q5RAwHdENcyBgAGwxHVMwRG ENlvEusR4wjvCfc7GM8OMDU7EdIMYGMAUAsJAWQzNpMRYAulNCAQAipcDrIDAZAOEDkgPEhUTUBM IGRpcj0eMHI8Pn0d8wAhAzAfQWRv5wDgH0EKsVxxGLAfQRDwbwMwH6URYB2rMx2AHqBF3EFEH3Ad rArjICOvJL8GZx1wDvA8U1RZTEZFI50nIyEtLQqjLhRobQeBcx5QZSBQTwqkAAAKsgDAcmcLgDq4 MHB4GeAKsgqwZB8AfG5nK2IKpB+ACrIG4GQueSmIKkoCEi0AkHplaDogMStwdCukLxNmRGFtAxB5 OlYEkGS9AHBhLLopECfPHoEvJ38XJa80nx3KNidBTUVUDEEgMXAHgD1HRU6ARVJBVE9SIAWgYwIw CfB0PSIF4B6zOBAuMDAuHOAwMS5kMTgOMDkiNB0nMi8vI18nATZvHkE1EWA8QrhPRFk5IAtgBBA9 KZdHNB0c8T3fZzk2HpBEhElWHvYgaWQ9Q7AgT1dBUmULUHlUoGV4dDE0OqA5H3k/AAAgpSFDIQEh mR3JNjRDRSoht0hpIE8EEGk4LCB3EQAFQAQAIHSiaCoQcG93EzF5CGD6IBEAdioQC4BKowRgB4Cp AjA/IESAbAMgaUphqQOgLVge8EJKoG8vAN51TPFK9AaQS0N3AHAFQPg7LSkdyQHAH4cKoh+H6wpx HawwIyEvQvEfeVFY/x2cQW9Cfx9bRc9G30fvSPkFHas4HYAmbmJzcPMCgB+YJ2EBQFnPUD9RT/9S X1NvXB9Vj1afV69Yv17P01rfY+c3M0oQUzlgMLB+bl9fYG9hf2KPY58+WTh3M5E/MjJ+NzxCHsEf cH0BdOAAHgA1EAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQUU2 QEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAB4AORABAAAA bAAAADw1OTMxZjhkYjEwMDIwNDAyNDN3MWZjMDEwYjFyOTFiNDM2MDIxZWNhMjlhZkBtYWlsLmdt YWlsLmNvbT4gPENPTDEyMi1XNDY2MThFQjAyOTc4NzUxOTVFQTgzN0QzNTUwQHBoeC5nYmw+AB4A RxABAAAADwAAAG1lc3NhZ2UvcmZjODIyAAALAPIQAQAAAB8A8xABAAAAIAAAAEwARgAlADMAQQBP AEUANQBPAEQATAAuAEUATQBMAAAACwD2EAAAAABAAAcw/cywtNelygFAAAgw486M19elygEDAN4/ r28AAAMA8T8HBAAAHgD4PwEAAAAPAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAAAIB+T8BAAAAXAAAAAAAAADc p0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1IU1QvT1U9RVJTVEUgQURNSU5JU1RSQVRJVkUgR1JV UFBFL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049U0NIQUVGRVIAHgD6PwEAAAAVAAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0 cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/ 4gQAAAMAGUAAAAAAAwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIA AAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91 cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAATAAAAYnZnYm9iQGhvdG1haWwuY29tAAAeADhAAQAA AAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAA AwAGEIRRcGQDAAcQVAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAFUAAABISU9TU0ksV0hBVElT VEhFUE9XRVJZT1VIQVZFSU5USEVNT01FTlQ/VEVMTElUSU4tWERCVE9GVUxMUE9XRVJJRllPVVdB TlQ7LSk3MyxTVEVGQU4AAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQw REQ4NUU4MkExQUU2QEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5k ZT4AANd+ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF023-5ee84b69d9a9124; 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo James, I catched you. vy 73 Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:19 PM > Subject: LF: test signal wanted > > > Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFC= W on=20 > 137.7?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="dfcw.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dfcw.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/4QAWRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAAAAAAAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcG BQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgy PC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIy 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fPjnw8D0/tO2/wDRi1gmt7wX/wAj34d/7Cdt/wCjFr9ExUuXDzfkzlXxHUaasF3o0FraKvii 7W1DfZZXWCW1IQsIUDJ50iqVZsQSgHDZVc/NwE86yyM6wpEjMSscZO1PYZJP612Phz/kk/jf 62v/AKNSuIP3RXm5VTVOpWitr/15fckXU2Ru+NP+R78Q/wDYTuf/AEY1YNb3jT/ke/EP/YTu f/RjVg16lD+BD0X5GZ//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME034-8bab4b7f0860c; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:53:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 05BE4380000B5; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:53:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niam1-0006x6-Tp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niam1-0006wx-It for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nialz-00033H-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E7730015 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:30 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:29 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b7f085e36cb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.207]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB101-85fc4b7118971fb; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:11:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E919438000050; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NelAF-0002oD-RX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NelAF-0002o4-A4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: from mail.ebirds.it ([151.8.133.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NelAD-0007NF-L3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 460D168E8A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:09:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3523968F62 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ebirds.it Received: from mail.ebirds.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mamba02.ebirds.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fD-aw9o9wZjw for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from imac2 (host185-41-static.24-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it [87.24.41.185]) by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA28686BC for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:55 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Marco IK1ODO -2 In-Reply-To: References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b7118950f76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 22:50 08-02-10, you wrote: >The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. > >Andy Correct, but those are pulse transmitters with low duty cycle, no way to put them in QRSS :-) If anyone is interested, I have the schematics of the transmitter once used in Sellia Marina, master of the Mediterranean chain, QRT since a long time. Valve (tubes), of course, 1950 technology. More power in the filaments and air blowers than in RF! Vy 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-dd02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD024-86aa4b6b1ca43b2; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:14:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0516B38000210; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:14:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd78y-0005dO-R2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd78y-0005dF-Fj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd78x-0003PV-5Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from COL122-W49 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:13:27 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:13:27 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 19:13:27.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[218C2880:01CAA5CE] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_" Subject: LF: G3LDO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b6b1ca2108f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_" --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I have just seen signal of G3LDO in normal CW. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I have just seen signal of G3LDO in normal CW.

Lubos,= OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1,= d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_-- --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100204_G3LDO.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAdAPoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwCgkn rTi7MioT8q5wK6rRfBo1/wAOXGq212IXtmZJYnXIYgAjBzkZzUznGCvIDlCMAcjkUlbWs+HZtEur GGeUS/ao1k/dj7pJwVHrXTRfCy9kkydRgEW84IUklMcH654x+vaplWhBXk9B2Z5/RU8tq8McrPw0 cvlFffnP8qhRS7qijLMcAe9aCEoBIOQcGrklncW91c2TbQ0WTJ7hc9K1dL8NDUfCupawbkRGzYAK Rw3A/wAamUlFXYHPUV1sPw/1CTSrbUHuYIo5V3ur5DRjtWDZ6XNd6uumK0azu2wMx+UHr1+lClFq 6YFCjHGccV12q+ArvR7We4uLuF1SPMYTOWfd93H0zXO6Xp8uranb2ELBXmfaC3QepoU4tcyegFOn xIHmRGYIGIG49BnvXXaT4HTVdf1PR01AJPaAeW5TKuc85qDxT4LufDVrBNcXsc5kk8oKqkbQBwf0 rP6xT5/Z31HZ2uYmp6YdOnWITpOTGJGMY4AJx1qhXYz+E5NF8T2GkuwvPtsS+YFUqY1Y4LfhjP4V zerWB0vV7uxY7vIlZA3qAeD+WKuNSMvhYWKVTxu0NvIVdQZf3ZXvt4P88frXQ+DPCH/CWXVyjXgt orZQznbknOf8Kva/4BfQfD8mp3V9G03ygQxqcZLY6nk8c1m8TSVT2Tfvdgs7XOJorZvdBmjn06OG RZZdQiWWOIdUVumf8fas+/tRZX81r5gkMTbCw6Ejr+ua3EVqK6Xw34Sn8Q2stxb3UcTxShNkinno Sc/TtVvXvCDeGP7Pluj9uS5lZZCikYHGAOfvHk1m60FPkb1HZnH4OM44orurr4bapbpLCt7buN2+ CPkGQdyeOMD61meHfBdz4il1BILlIhaHaGdThzk/l0/Wk69NQ576BZnMUVv+IPCd34dhjmnmiljk laNTHnt0Jz078e1YakNsRjtUHritE1JXQhlFdZpHge41zR4b+yu4gxLCSOXIKkHtis3TvDk+oeII dJWeMO5bdIgLKoGcnt6Ypc8dddgMWius0bwjLr2pXWnW88cEVlIyzysCWYgkA498HjtVTxH4RvPD VvbS3U8MhmJBEeflI6deuRU+2p8/JfUdnuc/n5QMDg0lLxjrz6UlaCFCljgDJqxFqF3BZTWUVw6W 05BkjB4YjpmqwJHSihq4Fl9QupYYIpJmZbc5iLHJT2HtUya1qUZi2ahdII/u4lPHOf5mqFFKyAfL K8zl5GLMxLMxOSxPUn3poJVgykgjkEdqSlDFTkHB6UwHPNJJJ5kjln7s3JNTpqF1Hp81ikpW2mcO 8Y6MR0/z7VVooAtSalfTQCGW8uHiChQjSErgdBiqyuyNuVip9QcVJcxrDOyLnaMEZ9xmoqALE9/e XPM93PLyD+8kLcjoeajhnmt51nhkaOVTlXU4IP1pgHyk+lJ2xQBZh1C8t7k3MN3PHOTkyLIQx+pp Lm/vL0g3V3PORyPNkLY/Oq9KBkMfQZpWV7gaUniDVZdQW+N3J9qXIWTuoPYe1Uri5murmS4nkMk0 hyzt1JqIHac0lFkgJ7e8ubQSi3uJYhKuyQI5G5fQ46in3OpX16oW6vJ5gAABJIWHHTrVWiiyvcC3 PqV3cTxTtKRJFGsSMvG1QMACqpJZizEknkk0lFMCeO7uICGglkhAYldjkYJGDg/TitCLxJqcWnz2 b3DSpI6yK0p3tGwI5Un6YrJJJABJwOgpKTSe4F6bWtTuLtLqa/uGnjJKOZDlM9cen4UtprN/YwSx WtzJD5sqysyNgkrnH8/0qsIl+yGY9d+3H4VDRZbAWZNQu5rX7NLcSSQ+Z5gV2Jw3OTz65NVqcwAV CM5IyfzNNpgWYdRvLf8A1F1ND8uz925XjOcce5NOs9RurCWWW3lZJJIzGXBO4AnJwex4qpRQBqXG uXTX13cWkj2y3S7JFQ43A4znHcnnPvVS7vb28ZftlzPMyDC+c5YgfjRfW6W04jQkjYGJPuKrsxdi zHJPJNKyvcBO9FFFMD//2Q== --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.208]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b6f1c081e8; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:01:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 511223800022E; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDIk-0003uU-22 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDIj-0003uL-HV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:13 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDIi-0003XJ-KL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:13 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207200006.BRDL10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:00:06 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDIc-0002On-5S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:06 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:00:04 -0000 Message-ID: <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoLuxOJJZHbohnT0mB9uQhGnMb8QAAPbww X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=9h1oTapCOFi4V8hbF4UA:9 a=TttF2pSkXtmdV2PMg-sA:7 a=-iwIPMUyoYvjGzHuzEpCQxtiZLQA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=RbPdqYqTG2kMiSey:21 a=8sDbWclzW1_vjxnt:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vwiN2YWM253eC6NsM2AA:9 a=0wN8dpT6fboIl1xSFEsA:7 a=4Dg9fu5lcRkRo2iPPsOwdF62hW4A:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d04b6f1c061306 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on "odds" lets see if I make it. I've had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

3 captures of= your signal so far all about -17dB.  I am Txing now on “odds” lets see if I make= it.

 

I’ve had= comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:50
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

OK Jim,

 

Up & running now, just had a comms port= snag, another app was holding the port.

 

GUD LUK, Gary -= G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

 

I am listening out for= you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will= be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx Fir= st (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  = Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF021-5ee64b6f6f131cc; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:55:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D7E8D380001AD; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:55:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIpG-0006z1-NU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIpG-0006ys-CA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.59.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeIpF-0005gy-2o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fDte1d00F0mv7h05CDu0Ql; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:00 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fDtz1d00B2DDHkk3XDtzlV; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:00 +0000 Message-ID: <001001caa861$948293c0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <001201caa85f$9670ba10$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:53:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: Yankee thunder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b6f6f11732a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mal Bob and I have been running WSPR lately on 510 kHz (dial). Switched back over to CW / QRSS3 on 506.5 kHz earlier tonight but have shut down now to go into receive mode. Signal made a showing on G4WGT grabber. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: mal hamilton To: rsgb Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: LF: Yankee thunder No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on 500. Where have they gone? mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mal
 
Bob and I have been running WSPR late= ly on 510 kHz=20 (dial). Switched back over to CW / QRSS3 on 506.5 kHz earlier ton= ight but=20 have shut down now to go into receive mode. Signal made a showing= on G4WGT=20 grabber.
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS =20 WE2XGR/2 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 mal=20 hamilton
To: rsgb
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 8:39=20 PM
Subject: LF: Yankee thunder

No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately= on 500. Where=20 have they gone?
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b7713f234d; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:04:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 97DEC3800009D; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgP9R-000756-Kc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgP9R-00074x-7p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f218.google.com ([209.85.218.218]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgP9O-0002ns-Tl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so3424128bwz.35 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:03:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6UhafaNdwgLrXaZjQWEJTEBK6ClddNdb3FNig+ObAj4=; b=SlZD1Du5zX9ccwU/1+TRxBEICuM6EVtL/wPwb1Z6lqkxP7lElPcrrfLTCLB+0FSedE 8oBNnmsMvicdMJJsHQUGbjNl0HYq7lTAg7W2mWbt5J750xKX+yxrfJs2GPP4WbsMzVhi 7SD9CY1Jlle5Ga9ezzYU0mHZKB6dsa/gf02S4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ItdWveFheT6Ary7XHht3Jsdtlclp0oPiRG46U8fjwuKS1XVZh3rcF3cIF2U3fPW2gK Y3x4lyiUvDoDkXVn2UQg4dWH9NOgUp0iqY0NaJDosEUeFESpePxiMCBAmZhRP8wW0G+A WdzW07L8htPpxYYtG9ukRweIhDrf7HmDTXp7g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.86 with SMTP id n22mr1976495bkw.75.1266095011633; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:03:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:31 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m209.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b7713f07104 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until I've understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with this software on any mode yet. 205600 12 -12 -0.4 -7 0 CQ *G4WGT* IO83 73s Roger G3XBM On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT wrote: > Hi LF, > > Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, > 503.600 kHz signal frequency. > > Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until= I've understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have neve= r TXed with this software on any mode yet.

205600=A0 12 -12 -0.4=A0= =A0=A0 -7=A0 0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 13 February 20= 10 20:19, Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.1= 00 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.32]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b742f9d351; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:26:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5DDBC380000BD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfbp8-0008VU-4B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfbp7-0008VL-MT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:25 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfbp5-00036d-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:25 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BGNHJG068602 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:17 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b742f972dba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all, As a non business customer, I have great difficulties in sourcing small quantities of the SFH750V and SFH350V or other members of the same product family. Digi-key and Farnell don't carry them or require a 200 pieces minimum order. Does anyone know of a suitable source? I need these for making an optical link for my mini-whip and some other interesting tests. Thank you in advance, Roelof bakker, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE033-5eac4b79306dee; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:30:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C671D38000337; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:30:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngz8R-0002rU-DJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngz8R-0002rL-1Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from psmtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngz8O-0000o3-3q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXV00MH8RW3R2@psmtp04.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <713A9D2642AE4EAF9C9BB0F93B1DE319@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 15-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b79306a1c07 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA)" --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Nice capture and audible 507.77khz henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 15-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Nice capture and audible 507.77khz
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 15-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA)-- --Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 15-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 15-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABOAxQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHyhIZPqPGo14SQPx0RimwVVygzVejY lyaTTWWlXRLhrLJTAscihLqhmShk2ORjt1sAlxArKZFTJXRdU3Ux3QgyMLZauNKq6wyaLJ0s 1NF1UqhVWUhAPXlavEAnYS5Gy1l7QH405uUDlMEImJgxSbk5mmuGzFJZvSUbbhsVmnwCpLIc uHFkG9XSGZxl45jvcFq8VDycOKhDlbTjJI8Um2BKZQO1ZfSHzb9H4vYhkTkUm3jPj81ZPoNa mDKuZGzK1CD3IaJ+ft4rl19Dhj16+tXkcqXXc1ssclN1zc/B3hvop198c8cPXc/0ThX0+DF6 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b=eKfL4laF88cei3ZPtAWaeQBAfnVF2gpjqRgkiZrO0R53l392DFJ/lXqGM1aY4/5Qm4BtOFoAMZTVU+S6BLOTu/DllJGHrOWj9y5dyiPy6IVfr3dHAMF8UDU0oB6NOvWO2KQA/gBu+u67qeeTwT8aqOAA9ytlVpHf289744SvuRU=; Message-ID: <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 5bSosmgVM1miNrvQkIto5cLs0NddSyiuoBW2hLeyUurf9KIpV3RI4qO36Pe938n.rBt46KRDbY09JnqLIf96YFepEwPe.6LdNK3UcLPb0kKnwHP4mg2EmvTiLJ8fz_eW_Eplwp9rAi.pqWevG07AU9pk.PYK5swr52ikZCfFCNmWuES0QYevDr6GzIbcfzfNGl4WtFyVcSngpzh_lhs9OolauND2iiuLskkRN3GMcaC0UwzV3WyNzBEdr.Mra.Vi8BbTZobnzDliifRaVNxYyN8wpQ637OptNbgsC.lwhgD1dU153w5ztartio14d9kSH4IQmg-- Received: from [86.153.188.195] by web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:25:44 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/272.7 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:25:44 +0000 (GMT) From: SAM JEWELL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6822f215e3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV systems use fibre link= s, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser) is amplitude modulate= d with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or regional Centre. These= carriers are usually locally generated but can also be from directly off-= air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The modulation index can be= held quite high for a single carrier, progressively reducing for multiple= carriers in order to minimize intermodulation between carriers. Ultimatel= y, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will be noise-like. Those= of you who have worked with the old telecom carrier based systems will= recognise the same characteristics.=20 The earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF= frequency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorio= n and added noise. Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amp= litude modulation of the light) came later. >From the laser (or LED) input to photodiode/PIN/APD output there will be= a certain link loss and system noise figure. If the system parameters are= known, this can be modelled using e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some system= s signal to noise ratio is critical. For LF systems, where there is a fair= ly high noise level, it may be far less critical (famous last words). Not all fibre systems use digital modulation of the light, although in mos= t cases it is still amplitude modulation. I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry the RF and IF si= gnals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes) at satellite eart= h stations across the site to the demodulation and signal processing build= ings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many years ago. Whilst= working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radio over= fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. These ea= rly fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the adjace= nt ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends! 73 de Sam, G4DDK ________________________________ From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13 Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer= fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres,= rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre los= s is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visib= le red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic= fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitte= r/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring preci= sion optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/= docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain= component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute tow= ards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electr= ical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fib= re in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the det= ector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will con= tribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself= is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage drivi= ng the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impe= dance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link= - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical= link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also= be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so= the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm mu= ltimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km...=20 --0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV sy= stems use fibre links, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser)= is amplitude modulated with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or re= gional Centre. These carriers are usually locally generated but can also= be from directly off-air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The mo= dulation index can be held quite high for a single carrier, progressively= reducing for multiple carriers in order to minimize intermodulation betwe= en carriers. Ultimately, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will= be noise-like. Those of you who have  worked with the old telecom ca= rrier based systems will recognise the same characteristics.

The= earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF fr= equency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorion and added noise.= Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amplitude modulation= of the light) came later.

From the laser (or LED) input to photodi= ode/PIN/APD output there will be a certain link loss and system noise figu= re. If the system parameters are  known, this can be modelled using= e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some systems signal to noise ratio is critical= . For LF systems, where there is a fairly high noise level, it may be far= less critical (famous last words).
Not all fibre systems use digital= modulation of the light, although in most cases it is still amplitude mod= ulation.

I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry= the RF and IF signals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes)= at satellite earth stations across the site to the demodulation and signa= l processing buildings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many= years ago. Whilst working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radi= o over fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. Th= ese early fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers.
As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the= adjacent ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends!


73 de Sam,= G4DDK





From: James Morit= z <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13
= Subject: LF: Loop preamp= with the BF862 / optical link

Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group,

If I remember corre= ctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer fibre and are inte= nded for short-distance optical links of a few metres, rather than telecom= ms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss is not really an= issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible red LEDs, altho= ugh I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre could be simp= ly cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitter/detector component= s with reasonable results, rather than requiring precision optical connect= ors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN
Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency= gain component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribut= e towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of= the fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of= the detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter= will contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link= by itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input= stage driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very hig= h input impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the= optical link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reas= onably low.

Most optical links are used with digital signals, so th= is analogue optical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion= products will also be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna= obviously works, so the principle is viable.

Cheers, Jim Moritz73 de M0BMU


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, Februa= ry 01, 2010 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my= loop preamp with the BF862


> Hi Stefan.
> 150dB/km,= is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fib= re was only 1 or 2dB /km...


--0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.148]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA012-b4f04b6e91b429e; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:11:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41E6F38000087; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne45L-0001Im-Te for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne45L-0001Id-JQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne45I-00083y-Ue for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 5364 invoked by uid 507); 7 Feb 2010 11:09:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 11:09:21 +0100 Message-ID: <201002071109230982.122C3852@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:09:23 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV 30dB over noise on 137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b6e91b335f6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 1000z. John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784b87e24c2c5; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:01:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2586B3800031A; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:01:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl1fQ-0005zA-VK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl1fQ-0005z1-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl1fO-0006Ki-D5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so139033bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:59:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=c1CfeUuB63BtnvoRaOa6CrwOyBtrnV8Ix51NI+NjMTU=; b=n8uUBPgaF5CnBoTc3AX7aF6sMh4O9UYE3P7c1cTeWEVQUFL99LY9G2GjkCTmOl8aZe yFjjhvXq7VDZeJsH2GnUGHvhn18VPp8eEqpBq89h3Nz2JpAq8YUVTRidSEBx20XTAXPL 9D0P823OvTYqVyPDu301XPexiHiMMK4yszdmA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=jrt+IPsNDvsqLc5FPj+pwgR9PU4t+DOSECHFbDxxIfOJi4pjraVwt5qrCi8fCoKrlQ gWzWNEyzLr++OlAP66ux2CIrvxbyubSD8inKsL3flqtT4yotRtqdhYv7ahlZihhybq16 26Tp4fuBgZXVFyzXwk0IyDVrtu4nhbIeprFv8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.153 with SMTP id g25mr361858bkw.158.1267196377426; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:59:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d04faefebde0480822554 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m258.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b87e24506c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d04faefebde0480822554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham wrote: > Warren , > > If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' > discussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken > hold ! > > G .. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM > To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below > 9kHz? > > >> Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not >> extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for >> nothing.... >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >>> >>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>>> received >>>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >>>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> >>>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>>> as >>>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>>> Act >>>> 2006. [...] >>>> >>> >>> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >>> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >>> continent >>> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >>> radio >>> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >>> strengths >>> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority >>> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >>> usually >>> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >>> >>> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >>> ask >>> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >>> will >>> need a license for that" clause. >>> >>> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >>> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or >>> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you >>> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >>> >>> VY 73 >>> >>> Jacek / SQ5BPF >>> >>> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice >>> >> >> >> > > > --0015175d04faefebde0480822554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for=A0abt 4=A0weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.u= k> wrote:
Warren ,

If you =A0thin= k this is bad, you =A0should take a =A0look at the =A0'ROS' discus= sion's in the yahoo =A0 digital data group .. =A0SS =A0paranoia has ta= ken hold !

G ..

--------------------------------------------------
From= : "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010= 9:31 PM
To: <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Perm= its for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Thu= , Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lap= thorn wrote:

People may be interested in th= e reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OF= COM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio= Regs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz.= However in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into grou= nd dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field str= engths
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority
and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the gov= erment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agree wi= th you there will always be a "but you will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them= if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmi= ssion from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in th= e 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jac= ek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very= nice






--0015175d04faefebde0480822554-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF032-8bde4b86a50a12f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 75953380000AB; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkgXk-0005jF-2Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkgXj-0005j6-Ls for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:27 +0000 Received: from qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.17]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkgXh-0006dG-At for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:27 +0000 Received: from omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.90]) by qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mCF01d0051wpRvQ5AGSHuf; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:17 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mGU01d0042DDHkk3eGU061; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:28:01 +0000 Message-ID: <001801cab636$f792c240$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:24:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: AW: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b86a5080dc7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan This latest setup was put together for the SAQ test in December. I've= used various loop=20 antenna/receiver setups in the past and have had reasonable reception= of SAQ however no reception of=20 Alpha. This was the first time for the e probe / Perseus setup and it= worked very well...after the e=20 probe was put on battery power and transformer decoupled. Most of the= time there were no 60 Hz=20 products in the frequency range of interest (10 kHz - 80 kHz) and the= noise floor was very clean=20 sounding. No filtering was used between the e probe and Perseus. There appeared to be a noticeable quiet spot in the waterfall between= ~ 8 and 9 kHz. I didn't=20 investigate if this was an anomoly in the system or if there happens= to be a quiet spot at that=20 frequency. As time permits I'll look into that further. Jay ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:39 AM Subject: LF: AW: Re: VLF test signals? Tnx Jay, Uwe, Jean-Louis, group, Jay, that sounds to be a good RX concept. You do not have a band pass= filter in the preamp? What=20 about the 50Hz or 60Hz ;-) lines and the levels they generate at your= RX imput? No problem? Well=20 decoupled by the transformer? Sounds easy and at once to be built... On that VLF SDR, the russian transmitter at 11,904kHz is really weak= to copy :-( 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von jrusgrove@comca= st.net Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 13:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10k= Hz range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed wa= terfall) and audible here a good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310= version of the Amrad e probe, battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all thi= s may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency= and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase th= e RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD074-8b8f4b86944417e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7173A38000083; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkfQZ-0004wC-Ij for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkfQZ-0004w3-7n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkfQX-0005wP-LR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1048120qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:14:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=nHXsV1SQRX81IKZLiOIoCm8+/ZrN4lqpXkMCNjRyttk=; b=Wlk1rdKvhAAPmsvpJEcZzhMLDM6/DaZ5tbNFnhvCLkTTAXlLXCquOcFwhulRHoSbno +qQOmE9Fw7kU9G8AIcxzk2IPc4SGADdw8DxpApdUr1HVxD4PAz6bPGhcM5qBj7QlToSn jyJ3IPs4t0+bodReuDik0iwcgLrwI6tkm+nfc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Nzv9mqTnfkYGorZBnnyf1gGbEhyhdMWwkyORVq1puUPhwv6Cc58oC59v/QS2PegpoB cpm0RUBanCuP/gKn7yC5KDOh9IdxUJm/VVe2kZDWNO8KDEel2kEmcSV/pAgRm1Y7hKMw FN8k4vHtMbxCa5g+ZxOi8CM1Hdg8zcZvZPres= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.81.200 with SMTP id y8mr962021qak.234.1267110889616; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:14:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:14:49 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m223.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b8694422139 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-dc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC051-86014b8689fb2b3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:32:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1CE76380000AF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkekE-0004Wy-HG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkekE-0004Wp-6G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkekB-0005Ua-QU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F8751C009 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3D331E703 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225143058.5F3D331E703@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_43975371==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b8689fa4b65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_43975371==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-) Stefan, I left the ferrite rods and moved on to another concept: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4476576.pdf I guess when I get this working Mal will respect me ;-) 73, Rik --=====================_43975371==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-)

Stefan,

I left the ferrite rods and moved on to another concept: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4476576.pdf
I guess when I get this working Mal will respect me ;-)

73, Rik
--=====================_43975371==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.129]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC022-a8d44b8552ff39b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:25:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0F435380000BF; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkK2E-00068n-Kp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkK2E-00068e-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.76.154]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkK2C-0005WY-JT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1OGOISS004104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:18 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:23:41 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:23:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9IAAEY8GA= Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40814b8552fc6ad7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Rik and others, Thanks for your contribution. > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH:=20 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm=20 Do you mean resistance in the strict sense, i.e. the resistive component= of impedance; or in the rough sense, i.e. the ratio between voltage and= current, which is actually the modulus of impedance? I ask because there are capacitance and capacitance-like effects in the gr= ound. If you are looking at (in effect) a resistance in series with a capa= citance, that could explain the 1/f effect.=20 Regards, Chris G4OKW PS - more details can be found in Keller, G.V. & Frishcknecht, F.C. / Elec= trical Methods in Geoprospecting / Pergamon (1966). See in particular chap= 1 - or probably skim it, as it is detailed and can get a bit boring. Pp.= 43-55 talk about these capacitive-like effects. The size of the 'capacita= nce' (capacitance, not its reactance!) even varies with frequency. If you= look at the graph on p.52 you may need to reach for a bottle of the stron= g stuff ;-) ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.18]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC022-a8d44b830ba8128; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9C224380000F9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBy-00066B-2m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBx-000662-AP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:53 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhBu-0006Nr-IL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:53 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MMtnVL009570 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:49 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:26 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B08@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B08@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EQptUkdB+LahRmuDs37S2uyEpAAARVhI References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.224539 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41124b830ba63292 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete,=20 Try to ground your inv L at the end, e.g. with aluminium foil out of the= household, say 5m*0,3m. The impedance will drop since the C will rise. Th= us, the needed L and the voltage will decrease! You can be happy to have the next Lowfers in such a small distance, so do= the job! :-) 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 23:43 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de =20 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjEWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwA3ABoAAQBiAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcANwAwAAEAeAEB CYABACEAAABGMTAxRTQwQTVGQjkzQTQ2QTU5QUVGMjlBODcyQ0JCQQBmBwEDkAYA/EcAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQCcDNAfErTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjU1NDhaLTk2NwAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJFOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAAKEdzELTKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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AAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAAwAdQAAAAAADAB5AAAAAAB4AMEABAAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AMUAB AAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AMkABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tz aGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AM0ABAAAAEgAAAG0wZm10QHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrAAAAHgA4QAEAAAAJAAAAU0NI QUVGRVIAAAAAHgA5QAEAAAACAAAALgAAAAMAdkD/////CwApAAAAAAALACMAAAAAAAMABhBt7Ps7 AwAHEPEdAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAIAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAUEVURSxUUllUT0dST1VORFlPVVJJ TlZMQVRUSEVFTkQsRUdXSVRIQUxVTUlOSVVNRk9JTE9VVE9GVEhFSE9VU0VIT0xELFNBWTVNKjAs M01USEVJTVBFREFOQ0VXSUxMRFJPUAAAAAACAX8AAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgz RDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFCMDhARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFy bXN0YWR0LmRlPgAAKKQ= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.215]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB023-86444b6c7129323; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:27:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E335338000308; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTov-0007Rl-FW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTou-0007Rc-Vy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from smtp07.online.nl ([194.134.42.52]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTos-0005rB-IR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from smtp07.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp07.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEAF98080 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp07.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp07.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: RE: PA3FNY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d74b6c71274586 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TNX Lubos, very nice capture indeed, 73 Victor JO22NC -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: vrijdag 5 februari 2010 20:04 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: PA3FNY Hello LF! I saw nice signal of PA3FNY. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TNX=20 Lubos,
 
very nice=20 capture indeed,
 
73
 
Victor
JO22NC
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: vrijdag 5 februari 2010 20:04
Aan:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 PA3FNY

Hello LF!
I saw nice signal of=20 PA3FNY.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC041-a92e4b6c5a7e359; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:50:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 802343800016D; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:50:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdSJJ-0006M3-VX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdSJJ-0006Lu-Jq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml108.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.12]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdSJG-00055u-Rs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML108.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:49:38 +0100 Message-ID: <865D5520039B49CBAC384201C9CB5720@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:49:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2010 17:49:38.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[961DA2B0:01CAA68B] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b6c5a7c0842 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tu Nicolas, best 73s ----- Original Message -----=20 From: F4DTL@aol.com=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 6:35 PM Subject: LF: PA3CPM Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band wit= h your beacon. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2668 - Release Date: 02/0= 4/10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
tu Nicolas,
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 20= 10 6:35=20 PM
Subject: LF: PA3CPM

Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF ban= d with=20 your beacon.
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

= http://lfist= es.erst.azerttyu.net/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G - www.avg.com
Version: 8.= 5.435 / Virus=20 Database: 271.1.1/2668 - Release Date: 02/04/10=20 19:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI034-eac14b8113ad4a; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:06:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E768D380000BF; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj9c5-0006Bn-Kq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj9c5-0006Be-8x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj9c3-00020F-1B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2010 11:04:29 -0000 Received: from 188-194-84-187-dynip.superkabel.de (EHLO Uwe) [188.194.84.187] by mail.gmx.net (mp047) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 12:04:29 +0100 X-Authenticated: #9373712 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18w5P9/AI4wuMC+mjAqcQvL/UakD5dQMWJ3SI1FER E3nFfsnBo4Ao1v Message-ID: <5FA0F4589FBB41C1AB6C3445C8C3142A@Uwe> From: "Uwe Wensauer" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:04:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.62,0.63 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: simple SDR -RX Kit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b8113aa3be7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi even not living in Germany, You may have a look at a available SDR- Ki= t The kit was designed for 40m/80m But with a simple modification it can be used for 136 kc . The kit and= 12.8MHz TXCO is from=20 http://www.funkamateur.de=20 read more at wensauer.info/uwe/lwpdf ( German) or contact me dk1kq@kabelmail.de=20 Uwe, DK1KQ ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
even not living in Germany, You may have a look at= a available=20 SDR- Kit
The kit was designed for 40m/80m
But with a simple modification it can be used= for 136 kc=20 . The kit and 12.8MHz TXCO is from=20
 
read more at   wensauer.info/uwe/lwpdf (= =20 German)
 
or contact me
 
 
 
Uwe, DK1KQ
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b840c67345; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:12:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DBC53380028C7; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyG6-0002oF-Ht for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyG5-0002o6-Ua for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:17 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyG4-0005cB-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:17 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223170909.JHZ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:09 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyFx-0008JD-86 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:09 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:08 -0000 Message-ID: <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0qFGZ4CmrfK8CQ5a8as7ZZ9x0UQAAdVpQ X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=drx4vy265O7cSwANWzcA:9 a=bmy_ImpU8ThZmZ9SiE0A:7 a=01v3RaaHE21ln-3Y7pyloeUMIkMA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=IaUufKty2zy3Y-9k:21 a=PMIrHIrN0ZCmuTzY:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=DhkEpAFiXBR5hrWFHC0A:9 a=_o13ONZI664K4DpD_ZwA:7 a=DJHmaVD5HjWsr4zNNGQjOvAo2yYA:4 a=s4b6rRNYTMZ368rU:21 a=k59z3zugxmQjbMoH:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b840c084932 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a seizure and the cats wont be happy either! With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DATA Roger Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim might join in. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: LF: DATA Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views, even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrote: Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I shall be ther= e, boots blacked and at the ready!!    

 

Buy shares in= Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in order to turn my garden into a huge capa= citor!   The XYL will have a seizure and the cats wont be happy either!  =

 

With best regards=

 

Jim

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of m= al hamilton<= /st1:City>
Sent: 23 February 2010= 16:49
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DATA

 

Roger

Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is bu= t the latest Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you= , Jim might join in.

 

mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent:= Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM

Subject: Re: LF: DATA

 

Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.

Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m fro= m the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was= able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this= morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation= testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity on HF,= although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is wi= dely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wi= ll be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments.= I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but= using the best weak signal techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful.  However, it's a free country and you're entitled to exp= ress your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net= > wrote:

Generally band condx vy good at present= from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns.

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor= , Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.

Observations indicate that data mode ac= ty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and= RTTY are still going strong.

Some will argue that cw and rtty are da= ta but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT,= wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.

Obviously the majority of ham operators= are not interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872= Kcs Dreamers!!

If you fancy your chances on VLF below= 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.

Your observations ?<= /o:p>

 

de G3KEV

 

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.137]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE051-5eb24b741c7314d; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:04:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F4023800033D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfaZ0-0008Hr-HY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfaZ0-0008Hi-6H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: from mail-yx0-f186.google.com ([209.85.210.186]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfaYy-0002Wy-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: by yxe16 with SMTP id 16so1124216yxe.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:02:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=dM3THPnCXXLYYnWsND/NQPe7PMi2viE66sEeM7J/xIU=; b=bSVM4jpyDUf2wO8fnQ/AJDLVRt6EzYFQH9gdrhWd5CAbmBZdzerVWQQCXFJkAxJCUp 1y+9swGmNvD/+EOe//Gbdv3fVfvAZhpCau98ca9B2PZWLXwPzWvwKGKqZhbfIOwH+UWH DRQ7uWwNWbwk93/j8unt/NWjHkhgk5/BPRsAE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Z3/f0ilILFW512zSJFGrdPyISnVwOUUodyH5cAKa4CM9PUbYR29UZQ7R4xBj01EwHs FQB+VbdOC024OQUN5Ug/nNJaSpjanwTKD1irUMC7FrmIg9Imvgp9BXKqTttRxb5xI4Ci iT/Rw3wkC1GAD/RESqBEtPBFbF+hg59MroQ/k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.160.5 with SMTP id m5mr174116ago.120.1265900546006; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:25 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb lf group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d288.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40894b741c7221f1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA052-86154b841be052; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:18:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F9EC380000E6; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzJL-0003Gx-Qv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzJL-0003Go-Ec for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjzJJ-0006D3-Nu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NIGdMx020995 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:40 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:40 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq0qTctyiDPwOwlT7mm4wzAcDzdxgACOKRW References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.180632 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55413 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b841bdc7a7b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Ground resistance is not worth in such a conditions. Coil (or >high voltage transformer) resistance is much grater anyway. =20 So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter,= coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the= needed L. So we have to spend a high coupling capacity to ground (at the= end of Pete's inv-L) and thus it may be useful to spend a high metallic= area to ground which can easily be done by such a foil ;-) =20 BTW, i do not think that the resistive losses at the "ground coupling end"= of the inv-L would be reduced by lifting the foil some cm/inches above gr= ound. The E-field lines in this capacitor model (foil-soil) will have to= pass the same way.=20 =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAJwAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6X2dyb3VuZGluZyBzeXN0ZW1zAKwMAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABcAEwAQACgAAgBHAQEggAMADgAA ANoHAgAXABMAEAAoAAIARwEBCYABACEAAAAxOTQ5RTVFMTNENUYzQjQ3Qjg0OTU3MEM5MTQ0QzhF MgAjBwEDkAYA3AwAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCi6lRYtLTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAA AgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyMzE4MTY0MFot MTAyOQAAAB4ASQABAAAAJwAAAFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6X2dyb3VuZGluZyBzeXN0ZW1z AABAAE4AAFfMzOO0ygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu b3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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ODJBMUIxM0BGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AAAG 1g== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b7469ed108; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:34:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A48B238000168; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffiv-0001SJ-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffiv-0001SA-EM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nffit-0004ua-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BKXEsE032232 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:33:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:15 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b7469ea0dea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan et al, Thank you. I will order what I need and report later on my findings. In the mean time I have a 6 metre stackable heavy duty aluminium pole on loan, made from 4 foot sections. I will do some whip tests tomorrow, when the weather permits. Thank you all for sourcing what I need on the optical front. I can now proceed. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC053-a9694b82f79e5e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EA82938000D06; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfrA-0004rD-Qc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfrA-0004r3-Fw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr9-0005aj-TX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from [212.54.42.143] (helo=smtp12.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr4-0007XC-KD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:14 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=[192.168.0.103]) by smtp12.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr3-0006VM-DF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:13 +0100 Message-ID: <4B82F764.2040602@casema.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:12 +0100 From: Willem de Roode User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njfr3-0006VM-DF X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-3.899, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, CM_META_TB_NOARR 0.50) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b82f79a6bd9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 2122 -25 -1.1 0.503893 0 G7NKS IO92 17 2126 -7 -0.5 0.503868 0 G4JNT IO90 23 73s willem pa3ego From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.96]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB104-869e4b7889393c4; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:37:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5044238000201; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngo0l-00027k-5y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngo0k-00027b-S2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:22 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngo0h-00069v-T3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:22 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1ENaBgR012725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:06:11 -0330 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:06:11 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b7889383dea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny. Signals remain weak. It must be condtions as TX and antenna are OK. 73 Joe VO1NA On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Traces VX9MRC > Henny pa3cpm > 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > MRC 14-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b83154111; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:37:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F2B9380000AE; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:37:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhpT-0006qH-TL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhpS-0006q6-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:42 +0000 Received: from web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.125]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhpS-0006mg-Aj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:42 +0000 Received: (qmail 40745 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 23:36:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266881796; bh=yecFHSFFwl+X1CQC3MtCMokPixR3d/VNFgM2rZ4et4Y=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ElmQmmnLq1Ne4WRIxvmeDRzrG1PP9IxV5o2HsNZ08zlh+kdyTLNPg+60E7pv+y6GPFeOwwi96StSKcAgfA3pjBC6165J0B08DMiHldgiwHYysjLDi49tdIVK+fOgk8o93xVYUzngRNurpB2rKDJYqPWnQLVrOAx77Qf9MPioDJI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=D4zbNPkhsYQgkjS6k+uV+3DwpEyaoudj5M+y7lyo3/nKAzWOWBwMNLnW8Nukq8NKdB/b9TLCUs9sr4CM/wFP3FwpxGE6g2x4ZKVofxmZHmTpY/la3rF6N/13hnRpSC9xUYZZlKdwZNGMi5pUJS8YIyCgojFpUs6zXmCUakSfMq4=; Message-ID: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pWfW9sUVM1ngZuc53pFlArVsqKNMHNT19SKfMGnzVullC.aIUejB.i76Hh6JeP7mcUnxHDMEK2Bf6F9dX3YmFHZfPAm9wrFu3ecll.WnAR8VNoJXcIbjLzdoudnc1A9IyahAaENo1MSL73xY3rLUZdcE9KDvBV0aGk8GzW2P5E5jQCvSo1BRCU3j6.uG3UVujcAqWF_Z0JBK5nY5ciwxRQe5Of6TGqsMhncEJx59GXoyQj05oqzKVq1nN5mTOySquZjWVHiYLBE71StEtgbXaRFaNBtQIO2RaXofZSpLLTWxc7._DbCBKQO_0lS3 Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:36:35 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:36:35 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m249.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b83153f1279 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, Rik and Stefan =A0 Thank you for the practical solutions...... I am reading up on the earth= conduction work done by John Taylor it may be possible for me to adapt so= me of his methods for this location. I like the idea of the ground electrodes I will lay out some cable and ini= tially see how much current I can make flow into the ground=A0using the 10= 0Watt amp. Then see how I get on from there. If I get a result of sorts I= will report back but silence will mean failure....:-)) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, ALAN MELIA wrote: From: ALAN MELIA Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:09 Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current fed extremely short aer= ial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tuned circuit and feed it= off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a much smaller inductance= and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth. The efficiency would= still be minute but the firework display after dark would be a wonder to= behold! :-))=A0 a later day Tesla..... Actually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the= ground. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can= be 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is als= o easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I reference= d) Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT wrote: > From: M0FMT > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 22:43 >=20 > Yep Rik > =A0 > So how do=A0I load it? > =A0 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in > the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while > the wire held out before melting.=20 > =A0 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =A0 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like > most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =A0 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on > this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I am looking > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need > help, ideas-wise.=A0 >=20 > If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels > above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in > doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly > G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 > =A0 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a > miniscule fraction of a wave length,=A0in the > conventional way is not the answer. > =A0 > So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... > anyone??=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =A0 > 2.5km Cu wire > of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the > coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > =A0 > 73, Rik=A0 > ON7YD - OR7T > =A0 >=20 >=20 > Van: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT > [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Group > =A0 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load > my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm > O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air > cored former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being > driven by about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be > getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =A0 > =A0 > =A0=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 >=20 >=20 > All we need is a wire strung between > K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. >=20 > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on > 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > --=20 > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >=A0 WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XGR/1 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. > You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the > regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the > answer as I remember > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by > International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no > we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency > things may be different > now >=A0 with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach > would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k > stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, >=A0 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other > countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy > to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF > (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. > Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something > arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an > antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what > about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which > will be on a > >> >=A0 ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the > center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth > radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance > at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are > doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good > distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it > would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short > dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments > as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, >=A0 one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> =A0 At this frequency, widely > spaced,=A0grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There > are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers > from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of > the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > >> > >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms > is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal >=A0 processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide > coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and > antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> =A0 73s > >> =A0 Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > >> > >> =A0 Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to > find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> >=A0 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a > forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of > wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna > mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF > bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above > ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. > I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad > ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, > the ODX > >> >=A0 would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little > far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already > catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB > operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> =A0 =A0 >=A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in > QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, > that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and > after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting > a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters > like > >> bandwith or >=A0 power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 > =A0ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> >=A0 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alan, Rik and Stefan
 
Thank you for the practical solutions...... I am reading up on the ea= rth conduction work done by John Taylor it may be possible for me to adapt= some of his methods for this location.
I like the idea of the ground electrodes I will lay out some cable an= d initially see how much current I can make flow into the ground usin= g the 100Watt amp. Then see how I get on from there. If I get a result of= sorts I will report back but silence will mean failure....:-))

73= es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia= @btinternet.com> wrote:

From: ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com= >
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= BR>Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:09

Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current= fed extremely short aerial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tu= ned circuit and feed it off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a= much smaller inductance and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth= . The efficiency would still be minute but the firework display after dark= would be a wonder to behold! :-))  a later day Tesla.....

Act= ually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the gr= ound. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can be= 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is also= easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I referenced= )

Alan G3NYK

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> From: M0FMT= <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
>= Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Monday, 22 Fe= bruary, 2010, 22:43
>
> Yep Rik
>  
> So how= do I load it?
>  
> I agree there is about 780 Watt= s being disapated in
> the coil so it would act like a one bar elect= ric fire while
> the wire held out before melting.
>  > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and
> abou= t 100 Watts of audio to try out.
>  
> I need a plan tha= t does not contain unobtainum like
> most of the RSGB designs in the= LF Handbook.
>  
> I want to use an air core transformer= if at all
> possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on
> this= reflector about this subject but I am looking
> for a pra= ctical method of loading a wire antenna and need
> help, ideas-wise.=  
>
> If I can load it with any of the power levels=
> above there are LF stations who may cooperate in
>= ; doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly
> G3xi= z or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
>  
> May be trying= to load a piece of wire, which is a
> miniscule fraction of a wave= length, in the
> conventional way is not the answer.
>=  
> So I am open to ideas (practical ones)......
>= anyone?? 
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On= Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe
> <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
>
> > From: Rik Strobbe <Ri= k.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
> Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz> To: "rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org"
> <r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Date: Monday, 22 February, 201= 0, 21:24
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete,
>= ;  
> 2.5km Cu wire
> of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345= Ohm.
> So even if the
> coil doen't get hot by the HV it cert= ainly will by the
> dissipated power.
>  
> 73, Rik=  
> ON7YD - OR7T
>  
>
>
> Van:
> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT
> [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
> Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 20= 10 19:19
> Aan: rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org
> Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=
> Hi Group
>  
> Using software to calculate what= I would need to load
> my inv "L"  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm
> O/P 800 Watt audio amp= I get :-
> A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air> cored former is 1400 turns,
> 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diamete= r wire.
> A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
> Creating an ante= nna current of about 1 amp being
> driven by about 60kVolts. Making&= nbsp;a coil that will be
> getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot.=
> Any suggestions??
>  
>  
>  &nb= sp;
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10= , James Cowburn
> <james= .cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin= .net>
> Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Monday, 22 Fe= bruary, 2010, 16:31
>
>
> All we need is a wire strung= between
> K2 and Everest summits and fed from
> base camp bel= ow?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>= From: owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]
> On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
> Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= BR>> Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>
> No license is requi= red in the US below 9kHz.
>
> I agree with Mal its very diffi= cult to radiate a signal on
> 137kHz, let
> alone 9kHz!
>= ; --
> 73 Warren K2ORS
>          =      
>  WD2XGJ
>       &n= bsp;        
> WD2XSH/23
>    =            
> WE2XEB/2
>  =              
> WE2XGR/1
>=
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA= <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is= not allowed.
> You probably need to
> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the
> reg= ulator at one time
> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tes= ts the
> answer as I remember
> was:-
> > Frequencies= below 10kHz are not allocated by
> International Treaty but we
&= gt; control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no
> we= will not be
> issuing any licences for that region.
> >> > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency
> thing= s may be different
> now
>  with Ofcomm. The best person= to know whether an approach
> would be
> worthwhile would be= John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k
> stuff through.
> ><= BR>> > Alan G3NYK
> >
> > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Ste= fan_Sch=E4fer
> <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> wrote:
= > >
> >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,
>  11:32> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt; Ok Roger,
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other
> countries= in
> >> europe as
> >> well? What about the UK?> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy
> to build
> >> a big
> >= ;> antenna without the problems we have on LF
> (getting the
&= gt; >> wire high above
> >> ground). So we also could tr= y big/long antennas.
> Waht do
> >> you mean with
>= ; >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something
> arround=
> >> 500W+-6dB. But
> >> the antenna? Sure, if yo= u think about building an
> antenna
> >> in the
>= >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what
> about<= BR>> >> 2x500m in a
> >> forrest, perhaps with the lo= ading coils (which
> will be on a
> >>
>  fer= rite
> >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the
>= center? That
> >> could be
> >> interesting and= easy to try. No tower, no earth
> radials,
> >> just 2 wires> >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance
> at= the
> >> feed point,
> >> that would be a first= step.
> >>
> >> This antenna will still be bad bu= t what we are
> doing -on LF
> >> it is the
> >= > same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good
> distance and
&g= t; >> make some
> >> contacts at very low frequencies,= although it
> would be much
> >> easier on
> >= > 40/80m...
> >>
> >> And so, if one would reac= h 50km with such a short
> dipole,
> >> the
> >= > fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >> Has anyone, except Horst, trie= d such experiments
> as well?
> >>
> >>
&= gt; >>
> >> With the ground wave,
>  one could= reach the whole europe, i
> >> expect. But
> >>= that are dreams...
> >>
> >>
> >>
= > >> Stefan/DK7FC
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schr= ieb Roger Lapthorn:
> >>
> >>   At this frequ= ency, widely
> spaced, grounded
> >> electrode pair= s are
> >> probably the best "antenna".  There
> ar= e
> >> references to how these work in
> >> the li= terature (for example NATO AGAARD papers
> from the
> >>= 1960s,
> >> available on the internet I believe) and on one= of
> the
> >> German ham sites
> >> (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
> >>
> >>=   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms
> is a fair
>= >> aim with modern
> >> signal
>  processing=  technology and reasonable (amateur
> >> levels) availabl= e
> >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide
> cove= rage to
> >> submarines at
> >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!)= but used enormous power and
> antennas
> >> stretching= for
> >> 100s of kms.
> >>
> >>  = ; 73s
> >>   Roger G3XBM
> >>
> >>= ;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> &nbs= p; 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
> >> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
> >&= gt;
> >>   Hello Horst,
> >>
> >>=
> >>
> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be= easy to
> find some
> >> motivated OMs
> >>= in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an
> interesting
>= ; >> field to
> >> test.
> >>
> >&g= t;
> >>
> >>
>  Yesterday i have though= t about possible antenna
> >> configurations for that
>= >> range and got the idea that one could use a
> forrest as= an
> >> antenna
> >> tower. There, you could hang= up 100s meters of
> wire, in
> >> series and in
>= >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside
> your<= BR>> >> house. Nobody
> >> will see the wire and nobo= dy will care about it.
> >>
> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizont= al loop antenna
> mounted
> >> in some
> >>= trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF
> bands and
&g= t; >> also 160m.
> >> The loop has 130m and is mounted= up to 12m above
> ground.
> >> Perfect
> >>= matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner.
> I even
>= >> tried
> >> matching on 2200m without a problem but= with bad
> ODX
> >> results, of
> >> course= . But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF,
> the ODX
> >>=
>  would be
> >> interesting...
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from= JN49IS and thus a little
> far i
> >> think ;-)
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What is your= RX antenna and have you already
> catched some
> >> commercial
= > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
> >>=
> >>
> >>
> >> 73, Stefan
> >= ;>
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: One can be su= re that there will never be SSB
> operation
> >> ;-)
= > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _________= _______________________
> >>
> >>
> >>=
> >> Von: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> >> im Auftrag von Hor= st St=F6cker
> >>
> >>
> >> Gesendet:= Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
> >>
> >>    
&g= t;  An: rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org
> >>
> >>
> >> Betr= eff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in
> QRSS
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hallo Stefan,=
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> there= was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287,
> that in
> >&= gt; DL the range
> >> <9kHz is free.
> >>
&g= t; >>
> >>
> >> I could not believe that so= I asked the BNetzA and
> after a
> >> while I got
&g= t; >> a letter which confirmed that.
> >>
> >&g= t;
> >>
> >> So there nothing you've got to do for= getting
> a
> >> licence. You do not
> >> need one.
> >><= BR>> >>
> >>
> >> There is no limitation= of technical parameters
> like
> >> bandwith or
>=   power.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
> >><= BR>> >>
> >>
> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30= OT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hor= st
> >>
> >>
> _____________________________= ______________________________
> >>
> >> NEU: Mit= WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
> >>
> >> &n= bsp;   http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
> >>
> >= >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
&g= t; >>
> >>
> >>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blog= spot.com/
> >>
> >>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk=
> >>
> >>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G= 3XBM
> >>
> >> G3XBM    GQRP 1678 &n= bsp;  
>  ISWL
> >> G11088
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >> --
> >> ---------------------------= -
> >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
> >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik= der Universit=E4t
> >> Heidelberg
> >> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
> >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
> >>= ;
> >> schaefer= @iup.uni-heidelberg.de
> >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387> >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
> >>
> >>=
>  www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
> >>
> >>=
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
= >
>
>
>
>
>


=20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF061-5ef64b819112c6; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 75945380000D4; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyR-0007JG-AQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyQ-0007J7-Nm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: from web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.74]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHyO-0004e2-AR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 87741 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 20:00:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266782405; bh=K1eBs1SneIcuA1e9L3xJ/wyg7m+jcqbaaWn6EiZCWxQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qubQm9m66niEXKFxUmfPom1Q6v3CMJeppHIgASNPouAr5jzujI/b2K4evvRquItreuR7QASp+ypRmN0jusee0upVNnqRLciQOAkBs8QCt81+LTrkDj+rVj5JsXdY8UZoKJPz9pjYx7ycEq2KH036Aj15wz6jaF7uWY7Qk10Rt7c= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HH9/i9VnENVExE5V6OWR7l+Fw24mfd/vHv3vBzZGt8VPGjJAunEcKkd+UPShbjXKYCHT9dG9QJOUlT4jmGZhRJ/Bu+a8XMZstXQxwltu7zBUflOJTm3wwdsVOYpWctdn46j2307f/wpXQxFS/UZH3nCh5LStmmzeO4axPXyaeaU=; Message-ID: <288804.84111.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: p9eSRQ8VM1n1TbUs7njtEohEDVuJmKHsKNzc8az6Ehthu9ILZHUTWaNgm_keFIQlFIAMFVmr7wJtmd.bLp_M9mqmp4sxNb5CAE93lNQ41k0g.f8ghDijX7WS0D77LqS1LwghAaMEsKMOA7K8kYiq7PfFc_ISa1m9ROzLk6eEXUZQdaLrmqLQCXs1SY9bwGvEI0vaatzyprFo9Z0jIytT4YuQsx2TbVZ6JYr2CQRUZOS47rV.NmDctzSDK5ubFZR6kBAf.sAq6pHCyGIgtiZK1aLyFsy2Dv3JDg-- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:00:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:00:05 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d271.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608a4b8191103464 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stefan, and LF group: I would like to decode " HBG " before they shut down, but they are not as strong as DCF77 here. I can easily see their carrier on ARGO, but not strong enough to decode with MulitPSK Clock. 73 all :: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 2:44 PM > Congrats, Andy!! > What is your next goal? DCF77 radiates 30kW EIRP if i am > informed correctly... > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR > Gesendet: So 21.02.2010 18:47 > An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; > rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: DCF77 QSL card >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the > correct person > to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as > accurate. > I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : >=20 > http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ >=20 > 73 to all ::: >=20 >=20 > Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA > LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) > Coordinates:=A0 N:=A0 35=BA 43' 54" - W:=A0 84=BA 3' > 16" > http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr > http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ >=20 >=20 > =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.214]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b6a07f1212; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:34:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 154F43800010D; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoiX-0007Y3-LP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoiX-0007Xu-9t for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcoiV-0003pJ-M5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o13NWvRm009799 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:33:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:32:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d64b6a07ee432d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello dear Ha/JO, Thanks for the report from JN68GN. I try to reach USA to night but I do not know if they are listening. Lets hope for the best. On WSPR I had good reports so it should be possible. 73, Albert PA0A ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "LF Group RSGB" Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:11 AM Subject: LF: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria > Dear all, > > PA0A ufb aural reception in eastern Bavaria, JN68GN, on 502,4 kHz around > 23.00 UTC. CW Signal up to 10 dB above noise level, in QSB still > readable. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD023-8b7a4b810b25191; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:29:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4ABF63800009C; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:29:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj93C-00062S-At for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj93B-00062J-Pq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:33 +0000 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com ([209.85.217.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj938-0001ql-Ll for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:33 +0000 Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so2578723gxk.14 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:28:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=N70mON3u5qy3O0ah8f31arApil1aK9zmxcwX46TkG+s=; b=Q00DpDBQRUzy72ejmDVuzTYQcq58HgDZNsVvRTyURt3kBKTunLwsilWlGxfia8VSvb FJ15VsM8Apiw/rjUScMFKE9XgfGIyvcHp1MXciWi13kS9rRZzvQftN5kolLEUEXgVneu XJ3OG7fIkoClR+50S4rQEPlvfLG7swU8NkZ/I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=DBo+GcI5DrpqFSlmSwKVOk8pMQP83oPMbNbTz5M+cAvFgfidza5X5KyNgRDMkOd1L+ xBGYn6ecrb8Pv3vNHszU6ydjkJirHvivzp+h+HlCtFdCa/OcCU70aD68tgLYnc8PoQP9 jzgpiGsiJjFF82Dpzkcdhg6qzsd6l6S80ewqI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.19.17 with SMTP id w17mr7333361agi.54.1266748102354; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:28:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002210228o696ce8c9y5e65332456f21c0d@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m247.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b810b2457a0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) LF today (newer edition) has the circuit for 136 and 500 modifications to SR by M0BMU >From http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.com/2008/10/500khz.html the circuit is part way down the page. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IPGAOU6e58s/Se3eSjsMr0I/AAAAAAAAAbY/sEHuJDQluHA/s1600-h/LF_SDR.jpg G4WGT grabber I believe uses the same. 72 Dom M1KTA On 21 February 2010 07:36, Scott Tilley wrote: > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented > for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of effort > would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC091-86054b67fb0f18a; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:14:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 399433800013D; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFl5-0004u8-6C for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFl4-0004tz-Jp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:22 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcFl2-00060d-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:22 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoYFAMKJZ0tOki5o/2dsb2JhbACHeM9khEUEjkw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,389,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="426564790" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.46.104]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 10:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: <002101caa3f0$4f85fca0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:13:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b67fb0d43e6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable also, avoid sharp Right angle bends and Roundabouts, keep straight ahead. If= the bend is too sharp there is a tendency to go straight on and burn a hol= e in the fibre cable. Good Coax might be the best bet in the the amateur co= ntext. Apart from the broad band advantage of fibre I don't see the necessity= and extra engineering required, interface connections etc for a simple pre= amp connection on MF. G3KEV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850n= m > multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre= at 1300nm > or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What= optical > wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If= you are > using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will= be high, > the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into th= e fibre, > ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fi= bre may > be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introd= uce > attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode= . In the > 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning optical > line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. > > 73s. > Ken > M0KHW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM > Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with= the BF862 > > > Hello Chris, > > I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer= ;-) ), so > rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) > > In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than > 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (f= or > indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of= DCF39 in > the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. > > In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But > recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less= noise. > So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall nois= e, > probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of th= e RX. > The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already ord= ered > some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... > > The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10= s of > years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no problem > for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. > > The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifie= r within > the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but > this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sensitive > RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have= to worry > any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/= house to > the preamp by the cable. > > 73s, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask > Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with= the BF862 > > > > > > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > > outlook exchange (?) > > > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > > correct format now. > > > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > > already working vy fine! > > > > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the > RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, including > the diode(s)? > > > Chris Trask > N7ZWY > WDX3HLB > Senior Member IEEE > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-md10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD104-8b9f4b7a9209271; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:39:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5BFD5380001F6; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:39:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhMgf-0005Kj-8J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhMge-0005Ka-NG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:56 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhMgc-0000qP-Gv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:56 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjQFAP8fektZ8FSG/2dsb2JhbACNDAOOC3S8RYRbBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,483,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="314416058" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.240.84.134]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2010 12:37:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 500 more Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b7a92087df3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With the recent influx of PA stations, new ones appearing every day= , it might be the time to request a larger 500 band, 3 Khz is barely= enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in unattended BEACON acty= would be useful to avoid qrm. When acty increases and more countries permit 500 operations there wil= l not be enough space. Receiver selectivity also needs to be checked, the old TRF sets will= have to go. 73 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   With the recent inf= lux of PA=20 stations, new ones appearing every day, it might be the time to reques= t a larger=20 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in= =20 unattended  BEACON acty would be useful to avoid qrm.=
When acty increases and more countrie= s permit 500=20 operations there will not be enough space.
Receiver selectivity also needs to be= checked, the=20 old TRF sets will have to go.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA083-b5324b8699ff3ab; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:40:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9D80438000625; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:40:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfo2-0005Kx-6y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfo1-0005Ko-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkfnz-0006Ax-3G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PFd9Op021553 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:10 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:09 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:09 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2GAKP2CdTE7DMT5+KOd0EMCpsMAAF88Wi References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.152738 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC" Subject: LF: AW: Re: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55497 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4b8699d9763a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Jay, Uwe, Jean-Louis, group,=20 Jay, that sounds to be a good RX concept. You do not have a band pass filt= er in the preamp? What about the 50Hz or 60Hz ;-) lines and the levels the= y generate at your RX imput? No problem? Well decoupled by the transformer= ? Sounds easy and at once to be built...=20 On that VLF SDR, the russian transmitter at 11,904kHz is really weak to co= py :-( 73, Stefan=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von jrusgrove@comcast.n= et Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 13:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz= range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed waterf= all) and audible here a good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310 vers= ion of the Amrad e probe, battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz ra= nge? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all this ma= y be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and= the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RX= ers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgoPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGgAAAEFXOiBSZTogVkxGIHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFscz8AGwgBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAQACcACQAEAEABASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAEAAnAAkA BABAAQEJgAEAIQAAAEJDMTEyMzBGN0RGNEVBNDlBQzk5MzI0MTYyMTkyQUYwACUHAQOQBgBEEgAA OAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOwhJawwtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABj PURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTUzOTA5Wi0xMTM5AAAAHgBJAAEA AAAaAAAATEY6IFJlOiBWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAEAATgAAph1DF7bKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+k vqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABv d25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVS 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mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b80109815c; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:40:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4EF1238000051; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NisMe-0002fD-7H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NisMd-0002f4-Rs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NisMb-0000I0-36 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8276513F04BBF for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:39:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:39:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+f0+7ULEQnpPmhEMtTFA+Hli7GRGP4neMxZyBnWqL6mJsmk3zwL73O nUPNt4LAUXyMrwZzQcLnnu/YLoN1lMfWOtmxCZUw2c7bnPl8UD2OuvinP7188vTd opk5MDnWK7/hp8rm4CjsqT0uJzth/GH4gwiCTqegMy8= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b8010967ad7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello, some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz we= re issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the Bundes= netzagentur has confirmed last year. Transmitter is an Pr=C3=A4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79= kHz. PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt= at 4 Ohm into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with= 20m top capacity and poor ground. Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS).= Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses. The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an city= environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a= better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city th= e ODX ;-)) surely can be improved. The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using ground= antennas vor TX, RX or both. vy73 Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =C3=BCber 1000,- =C2=BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF011-5ee24b7f00dc21; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4621B38000084; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaGx-0006gW-DT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaGw-0006gN-Ug for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:26 +0000 Received: from mail12.ssmb.com ([199.67.179.106] helo=mail.citigroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiaGu-0002mL-Lf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:26 +0000 Received: from imbhub-mw03.nam.nsroot.net ([159.17.94.190]) by imbaspam-ny06.iplex.ssmb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/SSMB_EXT/ev: 24741 $) with ESMTP id o1JLKG0S005665 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:17 GMT Received: from exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net [169.186.207.97]) by imbhub-mw03.nam.nsroot.net (Switch-3.4.1/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o1JLKE1W031647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:15 GMT Received: from exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net (169.182.192.15) by exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (169.186.207.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.393.2; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:14 +0000 Received: from exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.219.14]) by exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net ([169.182.192.15]) with mapi; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:13 +0000 From: "Scholz, Marco " To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:12 +0000 Thread-Topic: Special evening Station SN0JH Thread-Index: AcqxowDth/re6H29TzCHOQelIs9M+QABfRxw Message-ID: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A241E@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> References: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> In-Reply-To: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB x-wiganss: 01000000010017exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net ID0044<16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A241E@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 172.27.136.25 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b7f00da6c60 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.31]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI042-eac34b71be2d2b1; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:57:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0FCFC3800056A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NewBK-0004ot-HH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NewBJ-0004ok-V8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:33 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NewBF-0004AN-8A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:33 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBFA7B804D for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7885FF3862 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:53:04 +0100 Thread-Topic: PA matching oddity Thread-Index: Acqpq3geGDY/MJO6SRq0dAwf78TjNAAFgZM7 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411f4b71be2a027d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideband%= 20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transformers us= ed on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW out, an= d made up from 8 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It= runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. The modules were part of= an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(i= sh) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at input and output. Wh= ich is where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal.= .. The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs seen= before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary win= ding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as they pass= through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot en= d and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the third turn consist= ing just the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (tw= o of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary= made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a con= nection at the far end. A diagram can be seen at http://www.g4jnt.com/p= amatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will presen= t a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this sh= ould result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 900 Watts. = (Sanity check, a single ended design at half the Rload =3D (50^2)/ 2= / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation). Which is= not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125 ohms,= Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expec= t to see on a real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really the 1:3= turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings= could have have become an auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio= ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be higher.= But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg= http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it delive= red nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply= volts down to 17V. Now, plugging these values into the matching equation= 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible, - but I was seeing more= power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW ? Andy www.g4jnt.com --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,<= /font>
 
have a look here :
 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@= googlemail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transforme= rs used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?
 
I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over= 1kW out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,  RFPP53 types, roughly equivale= nt to MRF140.  It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. = ; The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(ish) with the norm= al ferrite matching transformers at input and output.  Which is where= I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal...
 
The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.  Th= e secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened= as they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot end and joined to the two ends of= the secondary, with the third turn consisting just the inner conduct= or with no braid over it.    All three turns (two of coax= plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a con= nection at the far end.    A diagram can be seen at http://www.= g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif  
 
Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...
the impedances don't work out properly...
 
Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.   = From a 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/= 5.56 =3D 900 Watts.    (Sanity check,  a single ended= design at half the Rload =3D   (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- no= rmal push pull PA calculation).   Which is not 1kW and is only= an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway.
 
BUT,   if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would= be 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of= value I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.
 
Has anyone met that winding configuration  before?  = Is it really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there= some way the windings could have have become an auto-transformer and = ;be giving  1:4 turns ratio ?
If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hig= her.  But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. 
 
 
On a quick test on the module today, running from a  10A su= pply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and drag= ging the supply volts down to 17V.  Now, plugging these values into= the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible,  - but I was seeing more power.   =
 ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT= HOW ?
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF022-5ee74b7485d8371; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 951D2380002CE; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:33:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhal-0002Mn-1Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhak-0002Me-JE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:58 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhah-0005kq-0E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:58 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6C7111C0008F for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5F42D1C000A9 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 02FA01C0009F for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:48 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211223249123.02FA01C0009F@mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b7485d52089 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Its just a case of the que's and cal's : cw is a tech-nique and= wspr is tech-nical still tech ! Personally I think it should of been named ICARUS=20 G ..=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: Well done Dom Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!!=20 73 es GL petefmt=20 --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines = wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV=20 To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02=20 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as pos= sible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross= band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA =20 --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Its just a case of the  que's an= d cal's =20 :  cw is a  tech-nique&nb= sp; and =20 wspr is tech-nical  still tech !
 
Personally  I think it  sho= uld of been=20 named ICARUS
 
G ..

Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New NoV

CW good, WSPR good too     :-))
=
73s=20 Roger G3XBM


On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk&g= t; wrote:
Well done Dom
 
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good  ......... WSPR= =20 BAD!! 

73 es GL petefmt=20


--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines= <dominic.baines@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com>
Subject: LF:=20 New NoV=20

To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date:=20 Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02=20


Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
= Hope to=20 have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.Thanks=20 for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band=20 qso
perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will fo= cus on CW=20 initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA

=



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM= =20    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088


------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-mf08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF082-8bf64b6fd41828a; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:06:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 350C9380000D0; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:06:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NePYI-00083G-Uj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NePYI-000837-KL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from outbound03.telus.net ([199.185.220.222]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NePYG-0007yf-61 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100208090500.GVUY18427.priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:05:00 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id AA7F91C26FE3AF04 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:04:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6FD3BB.9090703@telus.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:04:59 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA into the west coast... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4b6fd41714af X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I stand corrected it appears to be XKO... Scott Tilley wrote: > Fairly decent signal across the NA continent tonight. First time I > have ever seen V01NA. > > Good work Joe! > > 73 Scott > VE7TIL > http://www3.telus.net/sthed/argo/ > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC054-a96a4b7a6e7d2b5; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:07:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3662C3800012F; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhKJx-00052h-0u for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhKJw-00052Y-LN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:20 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhKJu-0008Ch-Lx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:20 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXX0095TIQ9S3@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:09 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0234BDA5D8FC4EBA920DF7B3C4B2840C@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: E-mail met bijlage (attachment): VX9MRC 16-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55086 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b7a6e786afc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q)" --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF nice capture VX9MRC 507.77khz, henny pa3cpm best 73s to All........... Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 16-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
nice capture VX9MRC 507.77khz,
henny pa3cpm
best 73s to All...........
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 16-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q)-- --Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 16-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 16-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABMA0EDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAAFBwgG/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHkgAz0WajTJOFExYSYaWAMHKWqt13R imyDUsTvWDgZZk9IIeBRqWKpDNARRlOGA6LGhdLpHEOVtBkBA5GlEmwqZEmIgYDIbGTXIamr uXLehVBsSw2KxOZZm7BTq+U4wmorMYqiRhoBjayLCJmgoGWA+qzJEIsABcqAmJN0U4zcQwJE qYZzkTOaPEwWUjDF5j1ja1dciLRIYJZjxrFo33aEXogonly7T0jnvQMnrtkjdwanNzgeP0jP YXaf0GprSox9snWZb2UvUV7lu3qo+kzmPmXupaQYjlSyMtOqE/TM5b+XjbVtopHuNWUkN9qh 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(Exim 4.14) id 1NdRzU-0005zA-L2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRzU-0005z1-9N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRzS-0004pk-1j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o15HT8er023251 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:29:09 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:09 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:28:02 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEB@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEB@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Who is transmitting "C" on 137.776kHz?? Thread-Index: AcqmYLQ2sPv6lOMTQayYSQ6FUCIw+QAJ922V References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.5.171221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B" Subject: LF: Who is transmitting "C" on 137.776kHz?? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b6c55bb4f55 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgkRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy 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LmdpZgADABQ3BAAAADMr ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.83]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC061-86024b6c52331f7; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:15:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C0600380003E8; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:15:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRl4-0005nP-Fh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRl4-0005nG-5W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRl2-0004gZ-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o15HE8m7001560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:44:08 -0330 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:44:08 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40534b6c5231349e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Thank-you for the reports and images. 73 Joe On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > capture vx9mrc 507.77khz > henny cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 04-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b6880c03a8; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:45:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9E07A38002E1A; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcOd1-000780-OM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcOd1-00077r-CQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from mbox2.netikka.net ([213.250.81.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcOd0-0001gW-Bk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from hupu.netikka.net (hupu [172.16.83.91]) by mbox2-feedback.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC4F4080E2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from imp1.netikka.net (imp1.netikka.net [213.250.85.154]) by hupu.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3564B004B for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by imp1.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67795495BD1 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from 558602b6.adsl.multi.fi (558602b6.adsl.multi.fi [85.134.2.182]) by imp.netikka.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 Message-ID: <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 From: Paul-Henrik To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 85.134.2.182 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6880467a3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear Mal. Send your mails on this subject to all "OFCOM's" in EU instead. One mail= every day to each country would give them something to think about. Personally I have spent countless hours writing up agendas, papers and e-m= ails to our telecom authority to somehow get OH on 500kHz. Plus some unpaid off= days from work to see the authority in person. Plus paid the tickets myself everytime to get there (400km or so one-way). Get up early, home late. For= two years now, and in vein. Not giving up though. I'm sure the same process is taking place elsewhere in EU as well. People working hard on their own time to convince their authorities it is time fo= r a change and that the current RR frequency table does not reflect the curren= t situation on/around 500kHz. The hams in EU are progressive but penetrating a brick wall with a toothpi= ck takes it's time. BR Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ Quoting mal hamilton : > Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where= are > the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! > I thought EU was progressive !! > G3KEV > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI071-eace4b7e4f1b1e9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:43:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 98B873800009A; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:43:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiOQX-0004j9-83 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiOQW-0004j0-Sh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:32 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiOQS-0006Bs-Tu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:32 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY2007KUYSJSN@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:41:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:41:03 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 19-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_YyP62XH1PjkNEpAqh9WjYA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55228 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b7e4f194c1b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_YyP62XH1PjkNEpAqh9WjYA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ)" --Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi All, capture XKO Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 19-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi All,
capture XKO
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 19-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD084-8b934b83a986a1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:10:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 914EB3800010A; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrhg-0000F6-1D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrhf-0000Er-Cb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:19 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njrhd-0001Tq-BM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:19 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA00ILSHJAKC@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:07 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <676D27A23CF440A5A6070F10F2501563@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b83a9843897 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg)" --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg)-- --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 23-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 23-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABIAv8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQQDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHlVObei4xLCIMWqtbiSM8pG5IUNMVp sL5HGl2KsJ5obSnnD2Z0ttXYozO1Rm2dFAVNOGTSneErU7FWxpVZyHh1SGpMvU2spBUTbKMQ l5HaqENvQxEAQYJ3ZBmjAynFy6d21GE5JkrSpqwE+7q2hi53F7EBRtvjijs8NIlF4ZkJ2BNH BKLqBHTTxEbNuMz04KtNQRoEALSJmCJMNCLA1OIyRs650bnfReBjM+TheS67rvHiUckHPEBt LOTWCPnce6oXs5rzt6m56/BjY5TJkaqTZoya2O1W6YIwTwSPk7M3ry2gLvXBXM1WeqrIbLzP 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imPAlEjsxKu3cJlnwRLWOKwvUO6vyXctP0iZEcEEAA86zKGUmCajtLRbyUQNZqF7o2CKWSu4 xYJ1FXvDTZ6qXfaETCfsSWuMrt8MT/BbzB0Ib6ogu86xFPlDEoKruuXcK9KtuVhZ7LheEzBM wAuoJ8jixhwVFVZ5Iucg+X+pr/eS4HbimNGBnaIstbUawjU5l2w9lpKtzugy1rugNUAaxnPC xMS2yvlLtmstQDgfaZlt3M5RKRb8mZK7LgD20P8AUo79rnjCKysx45lpg/uksSwMO24Fi/mI p7TEtkly0gqHFPMsC6asU6LNhtYQiZIsGWM3qcs0xSBmg0sIlR0esUSxiOFjmf/Z --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.76]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI014-eab94b7c49cc330; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:55:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EC9B338000106; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhpyj-0000AL-Mc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhpyj-0000AC-Bj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from mx75.mail.ru ([94.100.176.90]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhpyh-0002bU-1Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=37288 helo=EFREMOV) by mx75.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nhpya-000IhG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:54:24 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:54:07 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 0.501 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604c4b7c49ca7376 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Willem, Stopped? 73 Andrey > Hello lf > > Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA013-b4f14b75ae4e6c; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:38:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6641B38000378; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:38:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng1Kq-00056E-BQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng1Kp-000565-Gs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:51 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng1Km-0004le-4n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:51 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so4237742pzk.30 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=eRrcEtv+chTi+z/XM2XVU/JF9/Zc9GPUslcPst4KNuU=; b=p067+9V3sdJc4BgxVl5gQZHrTvM+BUIyka8EV5BLJQjbNmKw353iLQQz830tNw4vve rbR7qhvjsepSPXOHKidVruGDCLlpI7EX5R5GzcNRqAlolHDFvrpYvrk0LOtLw4tmn5W3 cw/Y74WAqQKrNrkG05LA0AmNfRAiuVEgVNlyo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=F1EPd2gn37wY726aABpnS3wz5jLlVqTFDW/B66LBIyDv9v/l3HUogFVaXK5ruj8r2d V2VyiR4k74gls+o5+jubkaSchYtgTpYcmmMvGUv8mN3v/Ha+ol6s3dXRnNyy91x/aYwY Yt99v/K1VBSmGKSegvm0wVR4cS+X479oMJZjE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.4.9 with SMTP id g9mr1249289rvi.31.1266003459363; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:39 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 24a6e7e6509d6979 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d308.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b75ae4c4e72 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: > A bozo I will be!! > > > > ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:07 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Roger, Jim, > > > > I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while= in > monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to > do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sig= n in > the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is wh= ich > Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. > > > > I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was= most > enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way= (QSO) > mode. > > > > You can find it at :- > > > > http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm > > > > Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: > > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > --000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

We are all "Bozo's" at some point in= time :-))

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again= tonight ?

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>= wrote:

A bozo I will be= !!

=A0

=A0

=A0

Roger, Jim,

=A0

I find it slightly different to Jim's descript= ion in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you= need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place= the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know= then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

=A0

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Gui= de to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to= JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

=A0

You can find it at :-

=A0

=A0

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@g= mail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next= week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

=A0

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@vir= gin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT7 pr= ogramme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you have ca= llsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the= right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5<= /span>

=A0

If the sending= station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is message 6<= /span>

=A0

A lot quicker th= an QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

=A0


--000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF024-8bd44b82aca0113; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1954638000099; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjarT-00020h-5L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjarS-00020Y-M4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:18 +0000 Received: from web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.127]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjarQ-0002s2-Fz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 30894 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266855010; bh=yIJVTSJtgfEQmLGNRiSGkBtzvMK6JC77m676YEl95hY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lkCNED5nBrJ+kYWjLpl5liyc7Yaheeqv73DAwaiNIUHBVju6vfb6tZZOkoeUqNTxzCq6dGLZ/FiG1DNL81GE0uBQrM85l53wDRPMCpXxhh7vthJUvVnoc/UmbugDP4OxdF4G8PQiLMXnICuUGpQIKtqZFFGZZoanf5jVU08nFr0= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Mh9x1qxUZf4kCNEWPzFfZgtqdivAbZOQzXoyBBCvXakImjpyLxRLJiTLoFJuRRSPp0cGHLnxwltQIBNBQAM2pR/jBnRZWvYKabBSdUB5SxvMBFn0ebxTHbxQX5LuGej8w4IjOIxlKTT6e9J8zhdQDKQ9JWiy7nMsOD20OZr+CZg=; Message-ID: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: gTy_cBMVM1lUZ.p4iYycURCy_gSKYrAdbV_ov1jF3INs_iE7DYI84NsqhsgIw6diX5yMUc4BRTG1PmqiV_.YuLDvqnzh7lvQ5LVBxkR9YR18WDp4FUHuBFUW0FGSYuWG7AQfbTMviHW9u_bl.OnDIlj.qyzZWCCCfa84uwAv2789cEVwQ6oCSdDAUD3.vY5DnvTGtDr2suF9Tkxq1McG6NflRlrD3wkl6LK8Xmg4YFkejpz0iBugs_6uVJsQBKEvC15bIU9zLbdbbOhlD_zbCG8uoccpT9pBOGVFaUemOj9_OoIwdeh9poGwIc9hr8P9q3BxJpX16BKckL_sdzQ4JTmw Received: from [213.122.54.169] by web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d252.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b82ac9b036c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to= contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time= maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remembe= r was:- Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region. I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different= now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wor= thwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > Ok Roger,=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > europe as > well? What about the UK? >=20 >=20 >=20 > If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > a big > antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > wire high above > ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > you mean with > amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > 500W+-6dB. But > the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > in the > garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > 2x500m in a > forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > ferrite > toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > could be > interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > just 2 wires > hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > feed point, > that would be a first step.=20 >=20 > This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > it is the > same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > make some > contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > easier on > 40/80m... >=20 > And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > the > fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >=20 >=20 >=20 > With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > expect. But > that are dreams... >=20 >=20 >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >=20 > At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded > electrode pairs are > probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are > references to how these work in > the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > 1960s, > available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > German ham sites > (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > =A0 > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > aim with modern > signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > levels) available > power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > submarines at > 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > stretching for > 100s of kms. > =A0 > 73s > Roger G3XBM > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =A0 > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >=20 > Hello Horst, >=20 > =20 >=20 > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > motivated OMs > in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > field to > test. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > configurations for that > range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > antenna > tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > series and in > parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > house. Nobody > will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >=20 > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > in some > trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > also 160m. > The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > Perfect > matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > tried > matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > results, of > course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > would be > interesting... >=20 > =20 >=20 > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > think ;-) >=20 > =20 >=20 > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > commercial > VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >=20 > =20 >=20 > 73, Stefan >=20 > =20 >=20 > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > ;-) >=20 > =20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > =20 >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >=20 > =20 > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >=20 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >=20 > =20 > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hallo Stefan, >=20 > =20 >=20 > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > DL the range > <9kHz is free. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > while I got > a letter which confirmed that. >=20 > =20 >=20 > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > licence. You do not > need one. >=20 > =20 >=20 > There is no limitation of technical parameters like > bandwith or power. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >=20 > =20 >=20 > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >=20 > =20 >=20 > Horst >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ >=20 > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >=20 > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >=20 > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >=20 > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >=20 > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL > G11088 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > ---------------------------- > Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >=20 > schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >=20 > www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > =20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.31]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI042-eac34b866f37e1; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:38:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5C03C38000121; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkcy7-0003bO-Rs for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkcy7-0003bF-GV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkcy5-0004UM-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.88]) by qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mBH91d00C1uE5Es56CdJjF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:18 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mCfr1d0082DDHkk3cCfr9T; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:37:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411f4b866f36046e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10k= Hz range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed wa= terfall) and audible here a=20 good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310= version of the Amrad e probe,=20 battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed=20 in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all thi= s may be already old stuff.=20 Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency= and the SNR he is achieving?=20 There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps=20 it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase th= e RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the=20 transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF042-5eef4b86980137e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:32:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F1C9F3800053C; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfg0-00056n-KJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfg0-00056e-9U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkffy-00064J-Am for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5A17B8117 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F2B31E702 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:32 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.co m> References: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225152930.61F2B31E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8697ef5e34 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I guess they have their own interpretation of VLF, based on the calls i see it's 137kHz / 504kHz 73, Rik At 16:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: >According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there >is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: > >http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map > >Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? > >-- >73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC054-a96a4b839a8666; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:06:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 530CB38000091; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njqhf-0008Kg-0a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njqhe-0008KX-Ll for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:14 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njqhc-0000vr-EB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:14 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N95stk009777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N95s5H009774 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b839a8312ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Those looking at vlf transmission should look at cave radio electronics, tens of kHz are used for communication and several kHz for beaconing. The antenna limitations aremuch greater than for radioamateur use. Brian Pease has a nice site: http://radiolocation.tripod.com/ He uses a 4kHz beacon with a very small antenna to cover several hundred meters via rock. The DQ receiver design is also worth a look. VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj08.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.92]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b6db4d3212; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:28:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E21FC38000090; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdpNR-0005cB-IG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdpNR-0005c2-6V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdpNO-0005vK-PT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E74651C00086 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D93781C0008E for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.41.48]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id A03261C00086 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100206182720656.A03261C00086@mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:27:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100206-1, 06/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_HAS_SPACES=0.651,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b04b6db4d140eb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TA= KE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB=20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND=20 WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 = TILL > LATER =20 ALSO RX ON 3566 CW =20 REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME =20 TNX - G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; 1600=20 HRS    ALSO   X BAND  3566  = RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<  TO  DAY SAT= 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; =20 TX/RX  500  ALSO   RX 3566 +/-  QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE  OPERATIONAL  = FROM=20 ROUND   1600 HRS GMT  >  1800  ... 1900&nb= sp; =20 TILL > LATER 
ALSO   RX ON 3566  CW&= nbsp; =20
 
REPORTS  / CALLS  WELCOME&n= bsp; =20
 
TNX - G ..


------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b67f746379; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:58:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDC303800008C; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFVZ-0004lT-Dd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFVZ-0004lK-1O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcFVW-0005sQ-SO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEALuFZ0tOki5o/2dsb2JhbACBbI1DyBOERQQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,389,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295854966" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.46.104]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 09:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b67f7435287 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Lubnos That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in Beacon mode causing= qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode. 73 mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: LF: 500kHz Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Lubnos
That was normal CW from me. The other stn was= in Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode.
73 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Monday, February 01, 20= 10 8:13=20 PM
Subject: LF: 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.11]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA054-86654b784a6421a; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:09:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFBF538000196; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngjot-0001mO-Fm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngjos-0001mF-Vv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:50 +0000 Received: from web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngjop-000530-8E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:50 +0000 Received: (qmail 14814 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2010 19:07:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266174460; bh=ARg/9fz0zfofFCcV8Rn1bkXygrUlXJ2nKTvCtMs9eAg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hWKWnthLO/wwr6ll79jDtJ1NpV4Rbz8YZNLUNuGBuHrKK9jUDwbuies8qvcD7qGMrEWaY0CMiPeoqlFhjLO8774OKCQSIb4M1MAXbfyX0xtvvD1MCYMvSfM1mZ2AcaNOdSdtvwejIf/Tsa8PrBTF3tvArM9epR2obuZbCt+L3fw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GSyK6mL+eh6pAFu41IeN5K0Wl4vt5FVP4DYEqNILPOuNtChB9TGUBFyVXNahsfB7CksAxhgcv+4uomucz3/Gmw+5hJzCVBMpDRO3y1FWzrkxWs5L9JqdqMOD5Vq2YZ/63NGTZ5rOD5wN4Mtk1g9gUG39+imGTFT3twkkM8px39w=; Message-ID: <123596.14653.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: niEOM7YVM1lZaOEskqkpSB32DAjN.cUYMXhwDLSkQLSS9.fvdCAAFMej4JPoDwLpyXR_MMHYkPHSHTwnx8LeHdSc.btZkI0w0s5gAgz9a3LpHvBc_DeGiE9Nh7Qdo6iIHJFj85Mqw6blyHO3zRSO89NCmKYkUkP82kbJWwXb.St5JIm5R49.MRQ7KlJtObFPo324HgpUprNrIFWGJj6.As5VnHh70V2cNuwkV4BBnlVqKyI8RTwVxX5efAzakl6kynDF Received: from [98.86.4.113] by web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:07:39 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: I'm proud of this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d224.1 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400b4b784a625222 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thank you Stefan; your information is most useful. > Hey Andy! > =20 > Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna > for DCF77? > =20 > Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC Station details: Antenna: 160 meter windom, and 80 meter dipole in " X " configuration connected to one coax feedline. In the shack, feedline is shorted, and the antenna is used as a very short vertical with top-hat loading. The antenna is run thru about 2 Milli-Henries Inductance, with an air variable connected from the feedline to ground, forming a simple LC tuning network. Receiver: A Kenwood TS450S using dual 500Hz filters, audio output into a Vectronics Active audio filter with 80Hz bandwidth. The audio filter feeds the PC soundcard. I use software DSP filtering at 20Hz bandwidth for very weak signals. No LF pre-amps 73 to all, and good radio-ing to you ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > Hey Andy! > =20 > Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna > for DCF77? > =20 > In the web i have found that page: http://www.ptb.de/de/org/4/44/442/ind= ex.htm#Kontakt > There you can find the adress of the working group leader > of DCF77. Maybe it is not the perfect adress but it one that > has to do with DCF77. If you give him i technical > description (surely they all can read it in english) and the > report and ask for a confirmation oer perhaps even a QSL, > you probably will get an answer... > =20 > Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC033-a8dd4b6fbeed10c; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:36:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CEBC5380001EF; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeO99-0007tQ-JF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeO99-0007tH-9E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([204.209.205.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeO96-0007c6-CL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from edmwaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edmwes71.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20100208073456.RMTQ13077.priv-edmwes71.telusplanet.net@edmwaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:34:56 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edmwaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id E3331276A3D02F23 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:34:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:34:55 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: VO1NA into the west coast... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6fbeeb72d4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Fairly decent signal across the NA continent tonight. First time I have ever seen V01NA. Good work Joe! 73 Scott VE7TIL http://www3.telus.net/sthed/argo/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.148]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI071-eace4b6d5af0e9; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:05:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F57A38000224; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjNa-0003oO-1c for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjNZ-0003oE-KU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:13 +0000 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdjNX-00034v-0J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:13 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16C2jhQ004255 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:02:45 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c07.7691f721 (37084) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229070163.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.70.163]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB066-90dc4b6d5a6229c; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:02:43 -0500 Message-ID: <15DE4535B55145ADBD93747022CF6A2F@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:02:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAA72C.A649BB50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40944b6d5aee2687 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Nicolas, LF, the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last nigh= t (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WP= F, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: F4DTL@aol.com=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber= ) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Nicolas, LF,
 
the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last= night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF,= and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 06,= 2010 2:11=20 AM
Subject: LF: PW beacon ???

Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's=20 grabber)
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Miniwhip
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(mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI043-eac44b8503fa149; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:48:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B9C6D380000B3; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEm8-0004zQ-0p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEm7-0004zH-Mh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:27 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml101.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEm5-0002oz-10 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:27 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML101.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:47:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: "henny van elst" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:47:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2010 10:47:19.0652 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCF91240:01CAB53E] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: RN3AGC Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b8503f76a52 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey, my signal was on your grabber,it was only 25 watt, best 73s henny pa3cpm ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:54 PM Subject: LF: Re: 0.501 > Hello Willem, > Stopped? > > 73 Andrey > > >> Hello lf >> >> Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2693 - Release Date: 02/17/10 07:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE054-5eb54b6a035a265; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:14:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB51B38000172; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoOL-0007Nv-DW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoOK-0007Nm-U9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:12 +0000 Received: from mailout06.t-online.de ([194.25.134.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcoOI-0003fL-9P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:12 +0000 Received: from fwd06.aul.t-online.de (fwd06.aul.t-online.de ) by mailout06.t-online.de with smtp id 1NcoOH-0000BE-7Y; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:12:09 +0100 Received: from [192.168.2.32] (TEbeJeZFQhP6U+l+XT5l+Y4hymLbiKB-6uaA8U3OYV4zae0FZn4DdFKoMyVK9ZAgqh@[93.211.81.160]) by fwd06.t-online.de with esmtp id 1NcoO5-1vgwrY0; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:11:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de To: "LF Group RSGB" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 6.08.0003 Date: 03 Feb 2010 23:11 GMT Message-ID: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> X-ID: TEbeJeZFQhP6U+l+XT5l+Y4hymLbiKB-6uaA8U3OYV4zae0FZn4DdFKoMyVK9ZAgqh X-TOI-MSGID: c67e61f8-edce-4fe9-bcef-69660cb58bef X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b6a035618bd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, PA0A ufb aural reception in eastern Bavaria, JN68GN, on 502,4 kHz around 23.00 UTC. CW Signal up to 10 dB above noise level, in QSB still readable. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.210]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b84094e32a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:58:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 67A0A3800009C; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njy5A-0002gb-RD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njy5A-0002gS-Fq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njy58-0005WZ-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EADCYg0tcGOT+/2dsb2JhbACNDwONenO9ZoRsBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,527,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="440651979" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.228.254]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 16:57:52 +0000 Message-ID: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:57:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: TOY SALE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d24b84094c7a8e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appliance Operator TOY for sale. Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20 kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sende= r/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fumble about with= a suitable antenna. mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Appliance Operator TOY for sale.
Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz -= 20 kHz would do=20 nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp,= then fumble=20 about with a suitable antenna.
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b74836518a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A5CB838000229; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhQb-00029j-6Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhQa-00029a-Lq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhQX-0005d9-TA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so31570bwz.30 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=t40e5uuZemckSNLwF09NkVh5SmWoJdgYXCbeRXdwXS4=; b=xfuSocLGprMV7Th9zPA1IP1bc8x+/uGASPeB+DoCqoJ/YwIdxV3Evb1ajwBoeFDtqC yfut/9orXY0N1+PIOX8NEuRl0ZClQlYsek/6vIqih4au/lQJtH7p3UwdlBqAVukdqdF/ f+8mylD8alNWW5VKmgXBTYbei1PHr7Pkq5tVE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ht0DdTGTlGgli3wveo1gZRcajvaYtLqK3XWPKNonJU9+q/QYiL9BLQw69Z6uBsgk04 eGq9FFCwd9dcEpNZAzhtt19fzYmuB21qthSHIg/0uJBOL9wBboXkcto2cpxd88XzZD/W mybol2++uNhhst7twNTSrnhiCR8B2gsE8IiQw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.212 with SMTP id m20mr328067bkd.79.1265926939015; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:18 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m288.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b7483633d56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: > Well done Dom > > Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!! > > 73 es GL petefmt > > > --- On *Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines * wrote: > > > From: Dominic Baines > Subject: LF: New NoV > > To: "rsgb lf group" > Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 > > > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CW good, WSPR good too=A0=A0=A0=A0 :-))

73s Roger G3XBM


=
On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well done Dom
=A0
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good=A0 .........=A0WSPR BAD!!=A0

73= es GL petefmt


--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Ba= ines <= dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <<= a href=3D"mailto:dominic.baines@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dominic.baine= s@gmail.com>
Subject: LF: New NoV

To: "rsgb lf group&qu= ot; <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Thursday, 11 February,= 2010, 15:02


Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
Hope to have= my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.
Thanks for all= those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso
perhaps we can= manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA





--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.141]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b86992b1b4; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:37:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2005338000134; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfkr-0005ER-2L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfkq-0005EH-Mq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:56 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkfko-00067u-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:56 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1059378qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0agu4v25ZWgLBDPZN0vU53GBfOQo2p7zlVcEzztOfq0=; b=vfML0y6PG+zPMBQPjBYlSP1mKwsCcJS10zx2OSl2DBbQRigBcd0ghvEUa5zBUMEPKF 8q2X0W/d2bNv5HeDKA6nOF9zAc2BcKt4QITXTUidj976V48rN4eWkNx3VlD197AnUBx/ bQjUfCECQFCYujEHFwgSjRjCsWOgVSFJUr72k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Y8Tw728syuw/tpGLRQCiyvh6q4C4NB2kbzqKAHfTZjxjdtNz0gbmBobPW20hosz8t/ Yjsu2H20F/XUlqMyD0ov8No/ba6W9bXyFryuRssz5whjzoiDWAbIsC8/lfyHEXyaR4/h 6CqZ66kFdmTPkO7t8iukUfaLVkpV6ZQs+MXnQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.83.82 with SMTP id e18mr1024184qal.65.1267112148587; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> References: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002250735t1b672097s132925a11e4db172@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d4b86990f007c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) After digging further into the WSPRNET map, I only saw 500kHz and one 137kHz station plotted. Apparently the organizers of WSPRNET do not know the difference between VLF, LF, and MF ! - 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Warren Ziegler wrote: > According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there > is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: > > http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map > > Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1 > > - From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi06.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.164]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b83f3cadd; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 053C4380003FD; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwe7-0001VA-FU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwe6-0001V1-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:58 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwe4-0004Kb-H0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:58 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223152536.TRYO4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:36 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwdj-0003WG-Bo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:36 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <029701cab49c$719d1be0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0l8TmcCJl1QA+Q2WxmpAmiF4HIgAAEgSw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=3Whqp61UHaEBF354uSQA:9 a=Kd1BtBMwOOAaR0GCXJgA:7 a=tcMSWY7f5SVbCH_-ulLAodsPj6kA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=7UPHMyF-XMXP1rSS:21 a=1zNcVJecHFff5kuv:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=h6swgvvPOmHAelOcH4IA:9 a=2ZZCUSFrcc0v05AowksA:7 a=iUWAghsbscoxFgV7_pba-k6UGxMA:4 a=RsJYWXwGnHMMRpPk:21 a=35QYoLlRM9NrYv8w:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039400cdece4b83f3c70328 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mal See annotations below for my comments and observations. Thanks for CW QSO on Sunday too With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 14:50 To: rsgb Subject: LF: DATA Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Yes indeed. I worked some good Dx last week during half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. Lots of strong US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO but its busy What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. I think AMTOR, Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really routine QSO modes in general but more service modes. RTTY remains popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine. (Only my opinion) Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong. I see that there are still many users of all modes including AM on topband, We have a thriving top band AM net in Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data. They are or at least RTTY is but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, Hardly fly by night Mal, if you visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly fly by night. JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500. tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Probably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday after all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of difference between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio! Also as you know with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can't hear Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. Obviously? To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ. There's more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up. Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances (me included and I'm a QRP newbie!). If one was to look at the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my guess that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, Most of the MF ops I know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be referring to me in which case n=1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!! :-) and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! They said that about T/A on 73KHz, walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinning jenny! Mal, put that clog down or you'll get transported to the colonies If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. I for one am looking into it, and I indeed have the appliances for Rx. Your observations ? there you have them. None of which are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, " I disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (or at least words to that effect!) de G3KEV 73s de G7NKS (Jim) ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mal

 

See annotations= below for my comments and observations.

 

Thanks for CW= QSO on Sunday too

With best regards=

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 =

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of m= al hamilton<= /st1:City>
Sent: 23 February 2010= 14:50
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: DATA

 

Generally band condx vy good at present= from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs.   &= nbsp;Yes indeed.  I worked some good Dx last week during half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps th= e old soleil is firing up again

 

Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, som= e strong USA stns. Lots of strong US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests.  G3XIZ is= running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO but its busy

 

 

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor= , Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.   I think AMTOR, Packe= t and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really routine QSO modes in general but more= service modes.  RTTY remains popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly= and works fine.  (Only my opinion)

 

Observations indicate that data mode ac= ty does not last long, the novelty wares= (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going st= rong.  I see that= there are still many users of all modes including AM on topband,  We have a thriving top band= AM net in Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.  &nb= sp; 

 

 

Some will argue that cw and rtty are da= ta.  They are or at= least RTTY is

 

 but I am referring to the fly by= night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,   Hardly fly by night Mal, if you visit the= WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to 6m and the number of spo= ts and users increasing all the time, its hardly fly by night.  JT etc= are used by EME lot too as you know, and its been used by me for the mighty total of= two QSOs on 500.   

 

 

tuning across the bands today I did not= hear any of these modes.  Probably be= cause most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday after all! I would be out= at work were it not for a slight issue of difference between my old CEO and hi= s investors resulting in our liquidation!!  Hey ho. Back to the CV= writing in between forarys on the radio!

 

Also as you kno= w with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can’t hear

 

 

Obviously the majority of ham operators= are not interested. Obv= iously?  To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ.  There’s more and more= WSPR users coming on to 500 and up.  Several users have tried and succeeded= with JT4A QSOs over good distances (me included and I’m a QRP newbie!).  I= f one was to look at the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it= is my guess that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc= .

 

It would appear MF attracts the Applian= ce Operator, Most of the= MF ops I know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be referring to me in wh= ich case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!  J

 

 

and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!  They said that about= T/A on 73KHz, walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinning jenny!    = Mal, put that clog down or you’ll get transported to the colonies

 

 

If you fancy your chances on VLF below= 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.   I for one am looking into it, and I in= deed have the appliances for Rx.  

 

 

 

Your observations ?<= span style=3D'color:navy'>  there you have them.   None of which are intended to change= your mind, as Voltaire himself said, “ I disagree vehemently with your opinion= but I will defend to the death your right to say it” (or at least word= s to that effect!)

 

de G3KEV 

 

73s de G7NKS (J= im)

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.81]) by air-me07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME072-8bb94b6d79d4275; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:16:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3D7A438000192; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdlRo-0004p6-EE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdlRo-0004ox-1D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml104.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.8]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdlRl-0004IA-5w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML104.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:15:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: "henny van elst" To: References: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:15:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2010 14:15:40.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC659D80:01CAA736] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: PA3CPM Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514b6d79d34fc3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey,Tnx for the grabber and the capture, henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:42 PM Subject: LF: PA3CPM > Hello Henny, LF, > capture at 2.50z. > > 73 Andrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 02/05/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-db06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB064-869a4b6f26b712f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8753E3800018B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0N-0004H1-7D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0M-0004Gs-RB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:18 +0000 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE0H-0003ov-3l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:18 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o17Kj0lI005127 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:45:00 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.d07.6d93dac5 (37081) for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229246217.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.246.217]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB063-90d94b6f2644d9; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b6f26b51566 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, I have tried to set up an experimental "live" screen grabber for 100= kHz Loran-C: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm Display averaging is 5 minutes, with uploads approximately every 15 mi= nutes. Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still playing around with= the software. There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmit= ters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across the North= ern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details, like multiple= skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips followi= ng solar flares. Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Loran-C is sc= heduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see what will change= by tomorrow night. =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
I have tried to set up an experimenta= l "live"=20 screen grabber for 100 kHz Loran-C:
 
 
Display averaging is 5 minutes,&= nbsp;with=20 uploads approximately every 15 minutes.  Not sure how stable this is, as I'm stil= l playing around with=20 the software.
 
There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka=20 transmitters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagatio= n across=20 the Northern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details,= like=20 multiple skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips= following=20 solar flares.
 
Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American&nbs= p;Loran-C=20 is scheduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see&nbs= p;what=20 will change by tomorrow night.  
 
73, Markus=20 (DF6NM)
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.21]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB083-864a4b85c1423cf; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4F7C3380000E7; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRN3-000881-Nd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRN3-00087s-3r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkRN1-000071-9W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1P0ELHG011593 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:22 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:21 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:21 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: 9 Dreamers Thread-Index: Acq1dyt90d0+GTqtTNONL+LkAJzSeQAKrjEi References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.333 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077" Subject: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55471 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60154b85c140066c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optimisti= c way, just like children are dreamers! We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could sta= rt now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not done ye= t.=20 On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO over= 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and he pe= rsuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe i get= that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys are= still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next listeni= ng station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this woul= d be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: =20 The wire has abt 580pF I can get a air coil with L=3D85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance abt= 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (if it= remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. So, if f=3D8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some 470= pF/40kV Cs, no problem) The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, that me= ans, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the reg= ion of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of abt= 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be 0,0= 014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage acros= s the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... =20 If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reached= with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be expec= ted on a sunday morning? :-) =20 73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhYAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEADwAAAEFXOiA5IERyZWFtZXJzAH4E AQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAAQAOABUABAAkAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAEADgAVAAQAJAEBCYABACEA AABEMTBGODhDQTc2NjdFRjQyOUI0MDQxQzY3MjczN0ExRAAnBwEDkAYASBEAADgAAAADADYAAAAA AEAAOQB3gIR6r7XKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1I U1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNTAwMTQyMVotMTA3NwAAAB4ASQABAAAADwAAAExGOiA5 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(james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2010 17:51:24 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: 8R9Hl9oVM1kBW3sTsh6nrphpuWQYtnuajiUSaQXuomze87pBxQaa4jr7H87yXuMCE6SgCmmXwm0zCBEf6AjsSSAsLD2p_Dp64O50d7VS9gxCsNXUYBhCOXSj1T5XydouNhkVxm1pHR_AQJz1t6rWt.LcV_h6Nt78W4l0cvQuAKd3YiL9K65vm9qIHaAEFpCv87dm5LSGx5BAcDEXnedXuPsw0R8AgOxurZehtcgve..U1kS3wQg_6PuD7OFOa0wp X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:51:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d280.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b880a6449c4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Markus, LF Group, I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effective height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF calibration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring sessions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna works out consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due to increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequencies. H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected. Of course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blown out of the water... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.143]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b7570393bf; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:14:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73761380001A5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:13:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxCX-0004HV-UC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxCX-0004HM-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfxCV-0002rX-8E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so533333bwz.31 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:12:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KgO4zymYSyg66rzoYkBZSgWewbB5GiYl/d6uOcIpqAY=; b=GCILfvtnVE1Dtrp4bzKNdpmn92/Eb2aSJXiolYUNe/7upT1ZFg3X/hG0OJyMFTEbeF mkoNjcn3V9qjOX97gYXr+k7APS6DMwA8YkOnbDDmS88CDEbcGjPVwrdvlbVfjU0Hm5EQ D1gMkKGay21C/9k2NWDs/oFR4sC/fjp1Hksj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HEfJrFcx//govLMhYrjGWWqboDUxza9boeimigvTyMNPH6udd5W1pSIitzteQQBc6G 6Un/FKpsEakxpGxBCfAhyoEXHEFUNHCd9OKt2vfiotEvENY/eP/gD8bgJd2V92CaxieK O3GmPsNof3ZyVhjxtggvD3kReiZJDzE3g3tak= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.24 with SMTP id j24mr899032bkd.147.1265987572416; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:12:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:12:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m221.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0c4b7570303f54 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roge= r G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT= 7 programme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you recei= ve a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you hav= e callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on ge= n stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for eac= h message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0

If the sendi= ng station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is messag= e 6

=A0

A lot quicke= r than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best re= gards

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Co= wburn

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@b= topenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF= Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0<= /p>




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI053-eac84b6f29eb303; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:00:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6511638000145; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:00:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEE1-0004bK-GB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEE1-0004bB-2g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEDz-0003yh-89 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4625693pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=WaGwFHHMaNbcSsM2H5iqdhZ/fnvOBfLdTwQZ/14Yxc8=; b=TAGNpdWG3lpsXSQyMduVR5Ya24Eio5GetuH0+0YRMP0t4MF0iDYsp+h/rW2EbFB3U4 5KOLoEG0X+uwkPonOEb1ypvZ8gockSbLTLqFNmYnmud4bwKwEAacMEfjWMK3D+n61L3+ U/EA0pn5Q1mO9M6nV4xNzbGhft5xxGOWrepWE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=CZwcwLDj142OYKhKtPTLDz6Erbpbgpa6mwkQ7TldrwFoK8damrLJzOG0Uqr2V4OK3w ITdSiSc3to0BeC8mmtrgpYshz9Szqyl/q2L3GRAMs+1rzZazgixgnvDckDyxVsAzXZi7 8CLUphuTood/uTS9wU9BFCqLcSyWSdpnVvyeQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.82.21 with SMTP id f21mr3835063rvb.265.1265576356450; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:59:16 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1717e463f43d6e24 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b6f29e973ec X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. 73, Gary - G3WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz wrote: > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very wea= k trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB= on the signal.

73, Gary - G3WGT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



--000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.88]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b75bcc53b5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:40:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 516A9380002E3; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2IC-0005FQ-Rq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2IB-0005FH-U6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:11 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2I9-00054U-Mb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:11 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212203903.SXHM4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:03 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2I2-0008GG-HM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:03 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:38:56 -0000 Message-ID: <017001caac23$65de9800$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsGwAl4sO3OstgTjmmBJOm4elIAAACF1ag In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=ZxbN8ogpbp7sA2GTVe8A:9 a=Pl7TM68set8inSdk-NMA:7 a=2Osbzg_NC2NutvadZZA4VE7gZP8A:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=PiDc9PcP_p1m61w8:21 a=x3QRNt2H46wQjOlx:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=E1stdRdzvg9R4oXbyJAA:9 a=gYz6OLQSgKPG5cxqsyoA:7 a=eNnvZ-jiES8ttQXp5lfiURBm5FUA:4 a=LRv-I59-okCNJsdD:21 a=8Bo1Elq5Ri8UkkWz:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60584b75bcc31982 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A damn fine idea! 502.1 c u there With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A damn fine ide= a!   502.1  c u there

 

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

26 Birch Close<= o:p>

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds=

SG18 9NR

 

T +44= (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:38
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Jim,

 

We are all "Bozo's" at some point= in time :-))

 

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonig= ht ?

 

73, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <= james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be!!

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07


To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR= 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Ga= ry - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on= the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to= Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA104-b5474b6ea41e148; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:29:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C978C38000261; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5JZ-0002Av-Sb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5JZ-0002Am-Fl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from kane.otenet.gr ([83.235.67.31] ident=OTEnet-mail-system) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne5JX-0000BA-79 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.1] (athedsl-269710.home.otenet.gr [85.73.101.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id o17BSTZ6026034 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:28:29 +0200 Message-ID: <4B6EA3DA.70205@otenet.gr> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:28:26 +0200 From: Alex Deligiannis User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> In-Reply-To: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by kane.otenet.gr id o17BSTZ6026034 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b6ea41c396a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Piotr M=C5=82ynarski wrote: > victor13@online.nl wrote: >> Hello Stefan, >> =20 >> I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for=20 >> blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. > Hi Victor, > please, send it also to me ... > > 73, Piotr, sq7mpj > > qth: Lodz /jo91rs/ > Please Victor send to my email too.... Thanks Alex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-me05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME052-8bb14b7300f9315; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:54:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 45B003800038A; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfHgN-0006rR-PO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfHgN-0006rI-FI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfHgL-0004FW-PW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXN00M8S3455S@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:52:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:52:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0345360BD75841B19792E99144E16264@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 136.317.3khz Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b7300f834b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All, I am transmitting on 136.317.3khz qrss 60,all day and night,reports are welcome, Henny pa3cpm,JO-22MD. best 73s --Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello All,
 
I am transmitting on 136.317.3khz qrss 60,all day and night,reports are welcome,
Henny pa3cpm,JO-22MD.
best 73s
--Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.133]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE051-5eb24b71403c263; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:00:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1B91338000156; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nenni-0003Dh-L8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nenni-0003DY-80 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nenne-0008VZ-LL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5d1cd.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.209.205] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 11:58:27 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/86swNDjz80lhsBWav6DY59Cy7zvL1boHb6Wsqr1 hzkJ00yTbPwOur Message-ID: <005101caa976$cf3ac210$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100208-2, 08.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.69999999999999996,0.70999999999999996 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LF 136 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40854b71403b4b48 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300" ------=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last night I received a beacon on 136khz, but my sreen was to slow, be= cause I wrote PA3CPM. Who was the other beacon? transmitted from 0150 until 0715 UTC on 136.= 32 khz vy 73 Veit ------=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Last night I received a beacon on 136= khz, but my=20 sreen was to slow, because I wrote PA3CPM.
Who was the other beacon? transmitted= from 0150=20 until 0715 UTC on 136.32 khz
 
vy 73 Veit
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D03VJP8A8e0f/XR//ZaKKv7JUdmVu3408k4Xn1oopL4WJbMTsKO9FFLoIKKKKkAooopMAooo prYBQSO9I3SiimtwEP3RSkkqv1ooqlswJ2+43+exqs33vwH8qKKqp0LmPP3VpKKKznuiApRR RSADSUUUAFFFFABRRRQgHL0/GmDoPpRRTYC0vY0UVIDfSpB0P0/qKKKF8LA3vEgCvYgAAeRF 0/64Q1z7/wCtcdhRRVfZRchp6inH71FFWtiBKOxooqeoG94K/wCRz0T2v7Yj/v8AJXeauBdf GnT4rgedHNdBJUk+YSL5z8MD1HA4PoKKK5qvx/8Abp00NiLW3ebVdWkkZnd7eYszHJJEERGT 9VB/AeleYP8AcU99v/s1FFGC2XoVidkRt/D+P86b3NFFdrOQdH98U3uaKKhgFFFFSwCk7iii kgJH6CmdjRRTAOwpD1FFFDAcegpKKKQBRRRSAKO4ooq+gG/4G/5KF4c/7Clr/wCjkr7ZHSii onuAyc4gcjghTg1HcgRwuUG04Y5HHODzRRWb2A8U/aD6eGj/ALNz/wC0q8QPaiiv1Hh7/kVU /n/6UzirfGzauiV8DaUVJBOpXYyPQpbZFeh+BdNsJPhj4l1N7K2bULR7o210YlMsJW2R1KPj K4Ylhg8E560UV4eb7f8Ab3/t7NaW5wEcsk/grV5pnaSWTVLUu7nLMfLuOST1rCNFFfU4LeXq v/SYmE9zatv+RH1X/sI2X/ou5rGNFFbYf+LV/wAS/wDSYil0CiiiuwD/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by 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t=1265908276; bh=sJyZ8raPD/r6EcWJzUMSK2D6MW+9FeCC0uQZ0UqHOfo=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ViEQIgdDIMcYe64D2prUFYFhgcpak+fWH7PUrsM9bdcEKzP8vW+cRoOi4J9HjcYb9bzcXpiA4PcvzEnLbKlizml8CgiBJ6GqHZmt4vLFSIcAeE0ZW3jgwHCoCr+DTmqOaHKfBwLhFYdacauqhKjxZduVD67LmL7w9gtX2xWzbaI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tykuEOMoM1JQfz19bMFsSVW3RM3fQiOE3rJIqJ5HRCMEuLTDUQyeh6zE+zKo/fO3EDuQRgsJiYCsRIIRB0FFyr2PMQH8lGMtW0z9laFRHsLHxMnyOz61fS4cLlWrgl5nc2Fd61YHFwe9AnnqbGSeLOfQWMUym1ZCjMluQU1AI1I=; Message-ID: <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qOZHJmwVM1nztCj7PBNTtrqc_ZrBitS2nSCZvPl1SIPdUdMD_VSyw28ZOlt5m5I3MVhetAxQkgD80OcCqWrx3dnZdGaZXAbNllfGlxp2D4.poUlooFQ1JZAsitDnlAPjYz3.xqnli4zLYewVhqb4jY720z58LuIDNX7YaJ9QfbWaR39VlLIDnTTNshhf1xgHc08H91jhmla12nbTDu1Z_lKFGQ2dvJQEp0aDXvVFVtOfRRUX8asc8x3b3lmdcJQ1.O0p0OjzD2qO_x9dicIwRbEwn8m3feNZYhjG_EiTYlBGhOLfrR4L.odV Received: from [86.130.62.91] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:16 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:16 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m289.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b743a741176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Dom =A0 Hope to hear you soon. CW Good=A0 .........=A0WSPR BAD!!=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA =20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done Dom
 
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good  ......... WSPR BAD!! <= BR>
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines &= lt;dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.= com>
Subject: LF: New NoV
To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org>
Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02

Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.=
Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.
= Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso
pe= rhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.
72

Dom
M1KTA

=20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD021-8b784b7c552e2ac; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 93C9038000055; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhqjy-0000Lh-D7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhqjy-0000LY-2w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhqjv-0002v4-LA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1HKgnZq012476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:12:49 -0330 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:12:49 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b7c552c4b5b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Thanks Henny! Joe On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 17-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.141]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b8315f42d4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:40:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6AC338000059; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhsL-0006vO-TC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhsL-0006vF-4W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhsI-0006ph-Rz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MNdawt009360 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:39:36 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:39:37 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EN5EuGcfa20TTgSt4k5J4/DGrQAAlu1hAAEk1eo= References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.232719 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB418.4B3D7B98" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55379 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b8315f202c9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB418.4B3D7B98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik, Alan,=20 =20 I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a vertical loop by usi= ng the ground.=20 =20 Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper C (to ground),= especially when talking about high voltages and high currents? Just cover= ed with some soil and easy to adjust/modify... =20 Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 00:12 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Pete, =20 what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the= same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a= more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power shoul= d be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable= that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. =20 73, Rik =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. 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Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.170]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b7486d32dc; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:38:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7051738000AAF; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhf1-0002Y2-NF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhf1-0002Xs-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhez-0005pk-LN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: (qmail 91697 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 22:37:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=pWGqT0RyPjzklzhb7v91dCKKfVps76YzeREMAaNryDmUAG37UcLtRNN6IMBWmLi4JZccnwLxKI4u5uCgumrSSviW3YWXX7BOGXxHfX5ZPJzEdBUZYVRcEePfCoBjm2NVDe1dbNnwYom3u2jfC+/tkaPffossTyRlfHAI+/zRCbQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 22:37:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: EVSth1kVM1kEPxFW4aIIPWNRe_ldAu7BOOaWfzpsactXtq8Kk0RNFQWrzKzR.2QqMMsQW7P.6EcWHZqpGGXJ2Nfu49Gz0cAxIeeuWSn8.broU5nqJoLQzSbQANoI6awuZlbRpwBjCUsThtwaRzcgaFNA5y.vkEUJihvX96t6hk2XHh5MMGhwtsWegojoz9J.vPxaG79Rae2h19UlvrL9y4P_HLy2zJfnaWbQZqcjGiJjOGLntFRMf2s7E6X5pqj7Dq2M_REyxzTFhEeO0J5LHnTY786mr_QViiH4zes- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded44b7486d20dbd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight > on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC091-86054b8a6abd6e; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:08:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 930B0380000AD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:08:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlirW-0004RP-3S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlirV-0004RG-In for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:09 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlirS-0007ZA-Oa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:09 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.198]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SD6p1d013347 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:06:51 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 6EA39E00008A for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:06:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:06:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c64b8a6a6a6fc0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b8a6abb02cc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alexander, LF, the frequency rulers of the modified Argo are actually correct, and yo= u can see how I reduced the bandwidth when going further away. The min= imum setting was 90 second dots, giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when= running at 4x normal samplerate (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) . The marginal "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thu= s the noise level (including spherics) would have been on the order of= 15 dBuV/m/sqrtHz. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alexander S. Yurkov=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radia= ting=20 > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting= up a 6m > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the= laptop > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screensh= ot, > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patch= ed for > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection= range > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. Dear Markus, In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=3D1uW= D=3D6km yelds E=3D1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. Bu= t we should normalyze this to bandwith. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Alexander, LF,
 
the frequency rulers of the= modified Argo=20 are actually correct, and you can see how I reduced the band= width when=20 going further away. The minimum setting was 90 second= dots,=20 giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when running at 4x normal sam= plerate=20 (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) .
 
The marginal=20 "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thus the no= ise level=20 (including spherics) would have been on the order of 15=20 dBuV/m/sqrtHz.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 6:33=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noi= se=20 level
=
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010,=20 Markus Vester wrote:
> In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt= an 8.97=20 kHz carrier, radiating
> about 1 microwatt from my normal LF= antenna=20 (220 pF at ~ 9m eff.
> height). I drove around and stopped in= different=20 places, putting up a 6m
> fishing pole with a wire, connected= to a=20 resonant circuit and the laptop
> soundcard. Each time I took= a short=20 Spectrogram full-band screenshot,
> along with a narrowband ca= pture from=20 a special Argo version, patched for
> 22 kHz samplerate. An as= sembly of=20 the screenshots is at
> http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif<= /A>.=20 Maximum detection range
> was 6 km, just marginally outside th= e reactive=20 nearfield. No
> noiseblanking was attempted at the time.
Dear=20 Markus,
In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signa= l? P=3D1uW=20 D=3D6km
yelds E=3D1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate nois= e level. But=20 we
should normalyze this to=20 bandwith.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB



------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.93]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB082-a7d84b86caee39; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:09:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF6ED3800010F; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:09:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkj4W-00073k-OG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkj4W-00073b-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f171.google.com ([209.85.216.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkj4U-0007sN-Br for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: by pxi1 with SMTP id 1so167002pxi.16 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:08:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=eFGMXvhVeNsXDn6WtXIG8y6C+/S4SWNIJBSW0NV9LlI=; b=Ui+tyJngK6CRq8KU1w7zNA2rIDoy4YiepUWPLGxoU+bVlRK0MZcaoIt+0ZEPttSQXp aMjMZ1OIeAeTfYal1ue8mmpUd+0uFoABqknnIuAGtTqiL0zN29sFMN+JRAXfpDBeieqg DRgvESYFhVBvmIIYl3M6clSUGK/ahBZE/AX2k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=IwFSxRExhuAS2jcijEJwbN0NacvrERXd2TFLvXv4sF0Qe2Sxq0b737Nm7M1CENE0Kn y4u4ZXcrPXaBb5w1FMX+I7o8c65QcPBxSoQtwiQusl4MbTYAh5qBDWS4+TNwL0qbRD4u 1B4PdrXRw+JW8YDkCnhgILT3bvq4kmfOCa9ZQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.14 with SMTP id d14mr796811rva.149.1267124898728; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:08:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:18 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7f00a0812d6d5879 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369207ff798ae20480718144 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m225.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b24b86caeb5870 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016369207ff798ae20480718144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF, There is a VLF Group at the following :- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ The members discuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informative group. 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz > range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmit= ters > are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in thi= s > frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving= ? > There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done wit= h LF > and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some > tests, to increase the RXers density. > Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rat= her > be active at the transmitters front now ;-) > > Stefan/DK7FC > --0016369207ff798ae20480718144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF,

There is a VLF Group at the following :-=


=
The members= discuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "n= atural radio"

Have a look at some of the dis= cussions, it is an interesting & informative group.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


<= div>
2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-= darmstadt.de>
Which commercial VLF transmitters can act= ually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but= in times where these transmitters are shut down all this may be already= old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a fr= equency and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the= VLF sector and have nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an= idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers dens= ity.
Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-)

Stefan/DK7FC

--0016369207ff798ae20480718144-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF024-5ee94b8aaa9993; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:40:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C4523800009B; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nln79-0007JP-Dk for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nln78-0007JG-Rq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:34 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nln76-0000hC-9I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:34 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1211313bwz.4 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=P1B/cMkmPWVPe55JX03o+YUXK+Q4ZsKiWx0L/ejHDgE=; b=viKJo1P4KHwMEr6aqJUwpOHYxI6/15533gW8GmPksqlgU8a4c3xn+znvp88dRKpoRk VhJLpsbLX1ZEr4/kekswabUS1VwY0g4uZnHag483IymLfB1LqOTJwBLdETrOeqTgP3y0 +kf2yMBrVaElnOXvfG19Wf+TQOngdZd+ZXWzo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=maxIdlMjvueKl+EGOoT6XlpaYPa3WkFKDIdE5QWvuxwclCHPm1+SCwvUOXTiTw6ONS eW5ghX8HkIC8dUEDQ8jrQKGLMKSwa76OJ0jyDxLspJA7wFmEG7F8zKobDqheX34pfdW9 zZNChZYIT+hL6wGBSMFBlTCusSPTbnV92pdGY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.208 with SMTP id y16mr2183278bks.137.1267378766050; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m203.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b8aaa974b63 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Marcus et al, Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a few kms will be fun. Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down to attention seeking. 73s Roger G3XBM On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrote: > Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views, we > definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement. > > And, best of all, it's fun. > > Best 73, > Markus, DF6NM > > > *From:* tim hague > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking > forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this > from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur > community. > > Tim M0AFJ > mal hamilton wrote: > > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an > > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be > > broken without the KITE, > > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > > > > G3KEV > > ..... > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I in= tend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a= few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself= and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Most here just= ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists wo= uld put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM



On 28 Fe= bruary 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com> wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his vi= ews, we definitely see=20 his=A0interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
=A0
And, best of all,=A0it's fun.
=A0
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
=A0

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looki= ng=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this= from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill= top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his= =20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
> Do no= t=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>=A0
>= =20 G3KEV
>=A0 .....



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--001517448ad82575680480ac9d62-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.138]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6d72543b7; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:44:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C6EE38000199; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndkwh-0004hS-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndkwg-0004hJ-K3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:34 +0000 Received: from mx40.mail.ru ([94.100.176.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndkwd-0003w5-FV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:34 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=15453 helo=EFREMOV) by mx40.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ndkw4-0002dZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:42:56 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:42:27 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408a4b6d725222f1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Henny, LF, capture at 2.50z. 73 Andrey ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="cpm.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cpm.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjowNiAxNjozODowOQAFAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAANTMxAAKgBAABAAAA+AIAAAOgBAABAAAAFgAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAA 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DE41F380001B7; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:53:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4kT-0001nM-Ka for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4kS-0001nD-TV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:16 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4kP-0008MV-LE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:16 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so3329637pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:52:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=KUPgtrfb+rRyKfud2oGblyu5DLWiwSHV8+7oou+P5gc=; b=mSijvfSG+aGmffT5E7fkh55BJ1LY20u6X6s8oxcMNou1kkIFWNyLMup57SPU4pIwOp orU/YMefm7KxgEcpqiBlWYKt9IlYn7dtOUc/Oy3r3jDevwD2xwk2b4hQmYc1Y43sXPtR 29m89tvk/y2jQv3IyKzefazpckCjN2cNZTNSM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=PojDR3e8kX4dGt+Ei4sMStMucdipRJ3PWlOXq8bFWKidnLelzGanwm7+5tHbcFJXZ8 D6SQTm/i1oE6389eVCZgg6ZljGEd2d1U/yAVFw+2JPAq0R49LXK47crlXj3dUgca7Wb4 9GrpH7Skn0DxDFihycjVBSf5Dk7V+9Nlyc/1c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.247.15 with SMTP id u15mr3504588rvh.166.1265539925611; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:52:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:52:05 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5406b93990d94ec5 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6e9b9c53ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roelof & All, Just for your information I am using a PA0RDT Mini-Whip antenna for my grabbers, it is connected to 2 receivers via a passive 50 ohm splitter. The antenna size is 30 x 45 mm on the PCB. You can see my results at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber2.html The Mini-Whip is at about 9 metres high on a 1 metre PVC stand off arm attached to my main steel mast. The mast is 90mm diameter & the coax from the Mini-Whip runs along the stand off arm & down the side of the mast with my other coax cables from 3 other antennas & the rotator control cable. The Mini-Whip coax is grounded at the base of the mast as is the mast itself. It seems to work very well. I have not compared the results with running the coax away from the mast straight down from the active antenna, could be a test I could carry out next time I have to work on the antennas. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 10:11, Roelof Bakker wrote: > Hello Alan, > > Thank you for the hands up. > Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the > coax inside or outside the mast. > But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roof or > what else. > So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests. > > Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not only > an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test gear. > It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy but > accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be set to 5 > Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm. And a 40 > MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is great in > tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc. > > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > > --000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roelof & All,

Just for your information I am using= a PA0RDT Mini-Whip antenna for my grabbers, it is connected to 2 receiver= s via a passive 50 ohm splitter. The antenna size is 30 x 45 mm on the PCB= . You can see my results at

The Mini-Whip is at about 9 metres high on a 1 metre PVC stand off ar= m attached to my main steel mast. The mast is 90mm diameter & the coax= from the Mini-Whip runs along the stand off arm & down the side of th= e mast with my other coax cables from 3 other antennas & the rotator= control cable.

The Mini-Whip coax is grounded at the base of the mast= as is the mast itself. It seems to work very well. I have not compared th= e results with running the coax away from the mast straight down from the= active antenna, could be a test I could carry out next time I have to wor= k on the antennas.

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.


On 7 February 2010 10:11, Roelof Bakker <roelof@ndb.demon.nl> wrote:
Hello Alan,

Thank you for the hands up.
Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the co= ax inside or outside the mast.
But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roo= f or what else.
So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests.

Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not= only an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test= gear. It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy= but accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be se= t to 5 Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm.= And a 40 MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is= great in tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc.

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt


--000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF093-8bfb4b8670541b7; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:43:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 24A77380000BC; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkd2e-0003k8-HX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkd2e-0003jy-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkd2b-0004aN-VX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1PCggbW020648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1PCggU1020645 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:42 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:42 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.411 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Poland on LF activity - Friday 20100226 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b8670530ba2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all! The Polish Amateur Radio Union has a new "Poland on Long Wave - 136 kHz Award", which is the second LF award avaliable in Europe. Rules are avaliable at: http://awards.pzk.org.pl/html/136_PL.htm On Friday 26 February 2010 there will be 3 stations active: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF receiving 137,710kHz transmiting 7,123kHz +-QRM Activity will start from abt. 20:00 UTC. Also I will have my LF grabber active all week 24h/day for propagation tests: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ Watch the amplitude scale - if your signal peaks >20dB above noise (the FFT bin width is 0.5Hz), we can try a normal CW QSO. VY 73 and hope to see (and hear!) you on LF! Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB043-86464b82f7341a9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A4590380000B9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfpS-0004li-DL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfpR-0004lZ-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:33 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjfpO-0005YH-FB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:33 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DC57B804A for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7422931E702 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:24:46 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz7Bi1LKXlI4KiQZCTHZKM2GKYjAAGVvLc Message-ID: References: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b82f7313546 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns, 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren= Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,<= /font>
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm= has a resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen= 't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-=
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net><= /i> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1



On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember=
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region.
>
> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diffe= rent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>> that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst= .tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>>   Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configurations for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>
>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>> think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>> Horst
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.10]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b856b1a1eb; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:08:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A5CD9380008B2; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:53:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkLPK-0006ka-9m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkLPJ-0006kR-UE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:21 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f192.google.com ([209.85.221.192]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkLPG-0006WV-US for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:21 +0000 Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30so1110627qyk.16 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:52:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rTPw+QmAhnY8peKzWe9ho0C5Hno1elRR6gC61zGOXW0=; b=bBKDL+bJ74FnL+bYvxFD03o+9gTSNtOSSMdvxd3RXtCvC9jX+LL62GED/DKDkSowqh DEXMUSgadLkMzBZ0BPZQVc1g4MzJBHFZmyY++qVVjCRoaCQECfltVfolvtSvDiVXSmHO 66z7xzOtCT/+6vBcj/EdtrdpNMfCy1D/TDSME= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=qpgb9M+mzpMOOvsTrUZK6LtDmMwARfw9CyXsiWc3ya/Yi+rzGcZKU/lw0ugoGn5lC2 3BIVxd9A0mv2qPmtUUQQ9AxMXNKojQa9BFEQMXGY3VLJ+sDzSEYAbzblM+cWEmCIrD9W WoKttAQrGcHqbg+MYpbXmXp+xiOwrWXu1ACcE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.35.3 with SMTP id n3mr112506qad.169.1267033927836; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:52:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:52:07 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002240952s155937e2u366f805638a43d6b@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m267.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600a4b85679766d9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Mal, My guess is that 9kHz will be more fun to talk about than actually doing it, especially when they see how limited the possibilities are... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:18 PM, mal hamilton wro= te: > Get started and see what happens. > 9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L antennas as big as possible and > resonated at 9 kcs=A0with a suitable series=A0inductor =A0plus some grou= nd > radials/rods etc > Suitable atu between amp and antenna and see what DX can be worked. > Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget all about losses and gold plated= foil, > STOP speculation and dreaming and get STARTED.. > TIP > Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms and match with atu to antenna then yo= u > can use existing test equipment to observe progress. > Turn your DREAM into REALITY!! > G3KEV > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj10.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.146]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b824f7d11e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:33:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 25BCC380000BA; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjUeK-000070-Rb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjUeK-00006r-Dx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjUeI-00086f-3r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1M9WGG4001800 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:17 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: Acqzms8B+A3JrZtfSxqc+Gb+rwTu2gABT0+c References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.91536 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0" Subject: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55350 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0f4b824f7a4ab5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Horst,=20 =20 That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in= the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. =20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that ra= nge and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. The= re, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire= and nobody will care about it. Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... =20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) =20 What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF= stations in that range? Are there some? =20 73, Stefan =20 PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhEJAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKgAAAEFXOiBMRjogQVc6IEJlYWNv bmluZyBvbiA4Ljc5IGtIeiBpbiBRUlNTAPYLAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYACgAgABAAAQA0AQEggAMA DgAAANoHAgAWAAoAIAAQAAEANAEBCYABACEAAABGNjZGQjg2NDkyRjExODQ0OTRBNTlGQTAzNjgw NTM4MAADBwEDkAYASBMAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgnSbsobPKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAA AAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIwOTMy MTZaLTkyNwAAAB4ASQABAAAAKgAAAFJFOiBMRjogQVc6IEJlYWNvbmluZyBvbiA4Ljc5IGtIeiBp biBRUlNTAAAAQABOAACIjReZs8oBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFj a3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNn 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EAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRUxMT0hPUlNULFRIQVRTT1VORFNSRUFMTFlOSUNFSUZJVFdPVUxE QkVFQVNZVE9GSU5EU09NRU1PVElWQVRFRE9NU0lOVEhFTkVBUkZJRUxEKDMxS00pOy0pLFRIQVRX T1VMAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUIw NEBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AAA22g== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD014-86a94b709f81111; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:34:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 48B243800012B; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ned68-00020B-03 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ned67-000202-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:55 +0000 Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ned64-00054h-Q1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:55 +0000 Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100208233241.ZQIJ21519.mta21.charter.net@imp11> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:32:41 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.189.74.84]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id fbYh1d00F1p78xe05bYhwy; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:32:41 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=jvKujuGdJHhM1vHKJAIA:9 a=Q7zvyFE5xDPAGHwjtNMA:7 a=xa7_ehzZivab7koYJnsVABb6MckA:4 Message-ID: <4B709FAE.8030501@charter.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:35:10 -0500 From: John Andrews User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> In-Reply-To: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b709f7f1618 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Taking a listen when I arrived home from work, there is only one chain audible, probably from the Nantucket site, which is nearest. Had not heard that sound in years! At a former employer's site, we used to check calibration on a secondary frequency standard by simply injecting 100 kHz from a divider chain into a simple receiver. You could follow the resulting beat aurally, or with much greater accuracy, with the s-meter. If memory serves, this was back in the mid-1970's. When the dual-rated operation started from Nantucket, this simple approach was no longer possible. John, W1TAG On 2/8/2010 3:39 PM, Markus Vester wrote: > Dear LF, > this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both > ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting > down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably > because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be > singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > :-(( > 73, Markus > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/08/10 19:35:00 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.12]) by air-mf04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF043-8be74b76721e16e; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E70B638000120; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgEMn-0006Ly-KW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgEMn-0006Lp-9A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgEMl-000844-9Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXR005MDX6A6U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:32:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:32:33 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <75A3AD605EE644AFA3A7553549FA4EF3@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 13-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54942 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400c4b76721c7fe7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng)" --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,All, capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 13-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,All,
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 13-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng)-- --Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 13-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 13-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAqkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBggH/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH5C6N6gJmhzuVkLakCjWanCxV1CjeQ FeTPQCIGc4SmRMFivJjPYp5u00YbpnGfOYjg+ZYiYO1yGo5Q5AuF2sy3uYzDhEBCUKQzwpQI M0sbotA4J0hljKSYjB0bPYrySUYQr1OTW04pYKxEUt2QM0JIgnUk0HLxLFJTLXpxsiUNnUWk 0hwXBIvTdewh5AyRgpZEQSjey5ooTDUSeemaYpNWjAFpl1VVtKlKkO1WKG2m+Znw0xJ05KGm ZJVjaEH1Ac9560IsokZ7zNGZ9dagiXoVJtGU3nxsRuQi2Jc9YTWhaYs2xlKoWapdYkElu3Qe 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(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NhoH3-0002eR-5a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:05:21 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:05:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acqv+8dBMWPhs55rQraU3yHtego6tQ== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1NhoH3-0002eR-5a X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-2.909, vereist 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_05 -1.11, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140" Subject: LF: 0.501 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b7c304a3b65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello lf Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello lf

Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b82a5c4f4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:41:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 61F8F38000129; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaP9-0001bG-OF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaP9-0001b6-6A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaP6-0002Zk-VF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100222154054.SURE4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:54 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaP0-0002R6-0n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:54 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:53 -0000 Message-ID: <011e01cab3d5$6b75f920$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: Acqz1A081+AfT9eiRNqMXPIvTy8xRgAARt/g X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=sM9o4fZmomUROB6xvIsA:9 a=sBCBc_wTP0REnwJ6mlEA:7 a=qrdMry04Nkox87L-huP3j1OFBKoA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=Nw-gdm4dIrdVRGI1:21 a=npBM0LmRUCLOdjSO:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=eeuRTDgHSEXUkVsFjD4A:9 a=T8bN77vsV6J6xCCDkN8A:7 a=TiWj_80Yt6t1YCJ7RZCDajC4hHMA:4 a=HtYGFMcs0BjHdSPD:21 a=LeTUmskCEG_B0gLl:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b82a5c23d44 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Given that virtually nothing is radiated then is it really "radio"?? Or could it be in fact our own version of PLT?? Albeit at very uber vlf and using the earth as the mains? Discuss? With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 22 February 2010 15:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Rick, Horst, et al, I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode" experiments between 0 and 50kHz. If you ask OFCOM I suspect they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI. It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induction loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe wrote: And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK? Stefan, in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Given that virt= ually nothing is radiated then is it really “radio”??   Or could it be in= fact our own version of PLT?? Albeit at very uber vlf and using the earth as the ma= ins?   Discuss?

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E jame= s.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of R= oger Lapthorn
Sent: 22 February 2010= 15:29
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.= 79 kHz

 

Rick, Horst, et al,

 

I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was= required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode"= ; experiments between 0 and 50kHz.  If you ask OFCOM I suspect they= will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI.

 

It would be very interesting to know just how= far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very= best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induc= tion loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing= will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction.

 

73s

Roger G3XBM

 



 

On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.= be> wrote:


And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?=

 

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free"

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b8a96a12f2; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:15:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9EF64380000DA; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nllml-0006Cq-TT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nllml-0006Cg-Ho for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nllmj-0000E5-Lb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAJ4kiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOOAWUOuCOEewQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="293122712" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:14:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01cab891$12baef50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: 9 DREAMERS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b8a969f1767 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 9 Dreamers - sounds like a POP group. Don't encourage Stefan, Jim and others to fire 200 K/volts at one anot= her, this is EARTH QUAKE stuff - no more tremors please. I have heard= also that some persons in Southern EU resonate at that frequency. G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
9 Dreamers - sounds like a POP group.=
Don't encourage Stefan, Jim and other= s to fire 200=20 K/volts at one another, this is EARTH QUAKE stuff - no more tremors pl= ease. I=20 have heard also that some persons in Southern EU resonate at that=20 frequency.
 
G3KEV
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB084-869c4b865fa015d; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:31:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1E899380001DF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbvc-0002PS-5N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbvb-0002PJ-Kx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:47 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbvY-0003hG-Kx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:47 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBUgQZ005749 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:30:42 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:30:43 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:29:28 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq2B4VHaS3+sNR3TdWaZn3t6WhZ0wABkUnK References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.112124 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300" Subject: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55492 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b865f996e02 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is one way to start but maybe the 50Hz and it's harmonics could cause= problems to the soundcard? Maybe it is useful to apply a simple LC-bandpa= ss and/or a resonated antenna (wire, L and parallel C, stepped L or separa= te primary winding) in a circuit, active or passive... Stefan/7fc ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 11:38 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and ins= tall either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC to= 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. Us= ing SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum allo= wing it to be processed by others.=20 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. =20 It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and= or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 =20 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I= can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is gettin= g better I will be able to get out working on the antenna. =20 Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth= electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas becau= se my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will diss= ipate most of the power which means it be getting very very hot and probab= ly fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have= been kicked around on the is reflector and off list there may be somethin= g I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 =20 =20 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weeken= d if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, coul= d you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. =20 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Ja= mes Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 Dear LF Group, =20 A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high= , 40m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna= set up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached= graph=20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz= for=20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-fie= ld=20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded= by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods,= close =20 to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antenn= as was =20 very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. =20 At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for= the=20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency= -=20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage incr= eases=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text book= s say, =20 for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate= at low =20 frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually= cause =20 resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna= , a=20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. =20 The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be high= er at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A sui= table=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 35= 0pF -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with= a Q of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolera= ted=20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance wi= th a Q =20 of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance= of=20 the antenna would definitely be useful... =20 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHQAAAEFXOiBMRjogUkU6IFJlOiBW TEZfOC43OSBrSHoASgcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAMAB0AHAAEAEUBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkADAAe ACsABABVAQEJgAEAIQAAADc3MTI1NzIwNjE0NTVENEE4MjlBNUYzQzkzRTU1N0FGAAsHAQOQBgDU GgAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AI8TbcoNtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTEzMDQzWi0xMTA1AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAdAAAAUmU6IExGOiBSRTogUmU6IFZMRl84Ljc5IGtIegAAAABAAE4AgFXStQa2ygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn 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pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2010 19:56:44 -0700 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=1 a=j0nf1SoGX0kASvv5Unis3A==:17 a=63NJiR3fAAAA:8 a=_Dj-zB-qAAAA:8 a=QBLS0FcSrJnrV--_2rcA:9 a=zGX8h9LLrPTsHHopd9nNOK-otp0A:4 Received: from unknown (HELO MaynePC) ([24.108.39.108]) by pd3ml2so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with SMTP; 05 Feb 2010 19:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> From: To: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89aa4b6cdab25176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Has VE finally been given 2200m then? Steve / VE7SL > Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. > > Welcome !!! > > > > F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP > > RX: PM-SDR > Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 > > _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook": http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-db06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB062-86204b6d0e772f1; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:38:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D3F7238000118; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:38:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdeI8-000340-IO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdeI8-00033r-1J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdeI5-0001RY-0j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2361A4C8070 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:37:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5E34C80BD for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:37:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:37:07 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b6d0e7555bb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Joe , Happy to find this signal which missed us so much, welcome on 777 (your frequency is always free) 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj F4DTL@aol.com a =E9crit : > Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. > =20 > Welcome !!! > =20 > =20 > =20 > F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP > > RX: PM-SDR > Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 > > _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/)= =20 > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB054-a5bc4b6fe3042ca; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:10:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5461D380001A5; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeQXk-0008E7-Qo for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeQXk-0008Dy-F2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeQXi-0008OP-Gb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXI001HUPI217@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:08:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:08:15 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VO1NA 08-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Xb+6h44MWco0w6lkVMVK2Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b6fe3026458 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Xb+6h44MWco0w6lkVMVK2Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg)" --Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the first signs. henny cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VO1NA 08-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the first signs.
henny cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VO1NA 08-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b6b1462179; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:39:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF8B238000221; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:39:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6au-0005O2-8v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6at-0005Nt-Tq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:23 +0000 Received: from smtpq3.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.166]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd6ar-0003At-VB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:23 +0000 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BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 502 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b6b146063a3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tnx viktor voor report. 73s willem pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0 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Tnx viktor voor report.

 

73s willem pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.14]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME041-8bac4b76fb9b3c7; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EE9E838000152; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgNWP-0006nw-TM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgNWP-0006nn-Et for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgNWN-0002KI-Md for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1DJJB5F021488 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:12 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:11 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:11 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF8@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF8@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Audio reference signal by DCF77 clock? Thread-Index: AcqrYKNcQRLVwG9XQueyRDmVcxTy7AADRSanAFrTpmc= References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.13.190631 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619" Subject: LF: Audio reference signal by DCF77 clock? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400e4b76fb99528f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF group, =20 I have a question to an audio reference signal generator and, as always,= you will have some good suggestions... =20 Since today i have also installed Spectrum Lab by DL4YHF. There, i found= the possibility to make a correction of the transceiver frequency drift= by applying a audio reference signal. This is very useful for me, since= my K2 has a temperature frequency drift of arround 20Hz (e.g. when openin= g the window, snow outside). =20 If i understood it correctly, i have to apply this signal to e.g. the left= audio channel (microphone input at the PC), if my RX signal is at the rig= ht channel(?).=20 =20 One way to generate that reference signal could be to use my DDS-VFO at e.= g. f=3D600,0Hz. But than i cannot use it any more to generate a test signa= l in the 137kHz range. =20 So i thought about building a reference signal generator, using DCF77 at= 77,50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 kHz= ;-) There are several ways to realise that and also many ready to use cir= cuits. But i want to build my own(!). I have an idea about the circuit but= perhaps it is a good idea to ask YOU if this will give a stable reference= signal: =20 Input stage should be a standard ferrite rod antenna, brought to resonance= by a C, of course. Than a simple amplifier using a BF245C or so. Then, fu= rther amplification until the voltage waveform gets (almost) rectangular.= Perhaps a schmitt trigger stage, such as CMOS4093 to get a proper rectang= ular signal. Then, 4 D-Flipflops CMOS4013 to divide the signal by 128. The= resulting frequency should be 605,4687500000000000000000000000000000000= Hz. If this will be a solution, it would cost not even 10EUR... =20 My question, or worries, are about the following: What about the noise ,= that is added to the voltage of DCF77? Will the frequency vary a few pHz= ( ;-) ) due to that noise? And what about the trigger level of the schmit= t trigger: This cheep circuit may not have a constant trigger level and th= us the periode will vary from pulse to pulse? What about QSB of the signal= of DCF77? This will vary the voltage (between constant time steps, when= du(DCF)/dt is changing within two steps) at the input of the schmitt trig= ger and thus the output frequency will be f+ x*du/dt? In other words: It= is possible to use the frequency 77,5000... kHz itself, or do i have to= read out the message schema, that is provided, such as the cheep digital= clocks do it? =20 There are several modules available, that provide a 1Hz output signal or= so. But what i want is a frequency in the NF range, that can be applied= to the soundcard or a direct conversion receiver. Since my interest is no= rmally based on LF operation, not to normal frequeny generators, this shou= ld not become a to big project, so easy but homemade circuits will be choo= sen :-) =20 What do you think? =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgwTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKwAAAExGOiBBdWRpbyByZWZlcmVu Y2Ugc2lnbmFsIGJ5IERDRjc3IGNsb2NrPwAMDgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgANABQAEwALAAYAKAEBIIAD AA4AAADaBwIADQAUABMACwAGACgBAQmAAQAhAAAAQUJCOTg4NkE0NkM3MTM0RkFENEM5RUYzMTBE RjBCQjEAagcBA5AGAFAWAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAGeb8a+GsygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABMRjog AAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjEzMTkx OTExWi02OTYAAAAeAEkAAQAAACMAAABBVzogQVc6IExGOiBGaWJlciBvcHRpYyBjb21wb25lbnRz AABAAE4ALU65b3KrygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu 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1NdS61-0006A5-F6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdS61-00069w-2a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdS5y-0004wI-7h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o15HZPrP019720 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:25 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.bfd.72336f1d (43952) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.145]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD011-5bb84b6c56cf49; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:35:22 -0500 Received: from magic-m23.mail.aol.com (magic-m23.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.196]) by smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA027-5bb84b6c56cf49; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:35:11 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:11 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 79.94.238.208 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b6c57340c6c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary" --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band with your beacon. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band with= your=20 beacon.
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/
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xspkmMPlKlfJ2G3cwknp0oQfhm1d+ghprO0THMNMPtTqus3pmm7tyqTqZg/p3u6pui7vdqnvDhHf nk4QZIKX1cEFnglpFEITCW3FoGAORG8O+MMDLEAUwI6AnFkJ+CEZ7AItmknlOq2P4C0uqu7ani/6 /i76AkAGkGr6ri/8xq/8zi8i0q/9Us3eDu/BHG8sKIEzlMEOwAEOLMAO+M4LlAClOmtphRLg3K8D h20dBAQAOw== --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI053-eac84b881dcf250; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8A67E38000088; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dy-0008FL-0U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dx-0008FC-KF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:33 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5dq-0008Ar-Ru for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:33 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100226191415.DDTS4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:15 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5df-000133-AX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:15 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:14 -0000 Message-ID: <009c01cab717$e2f183d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acq3F+KiWrO1Rv63TN6X8BxNDev0aw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=KZcMsPGDkIDgkjqF-EUA:9 a=GKLGUjsH9F5pGMgpTe2rXouB3aIA:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=NeeU8fEcwMJSOEwAFkMA:9 a=T2wFnB-2Kr9f-KC8JZ8A:7 a=ej75W0D-coy93W3xTy1id0Pea1gA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9KHz NOV application in! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b881dcd48b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LF NOV applicn submitted today via hard copy and PDF. Got a reply from Rod at Ofcom to acknowledge receipt but he did say it could be some time before he gets feedback as to whether he can issue a NOV. I will keep you all appraised Have a good weekend all With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LF

 

NOV applicn submitted today via hard co= py and PDF.  Got a reply from Rod at Ofcom to acknowledge receipt but he did say it could= be some time before he gets feedback as to whether he can issue a NOV.

 

I will keep you all appraised

 

Have a good weekend all

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn G7NKS

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.12]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC044-a9324b75c2012d3; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EF7AA380000ED; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2e4-0005NV-RB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2e4-0005NM-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2e1-0005Dj-IZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1CL1bLx022164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:31:37 -0330 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:31:37 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4b75c1f9046f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Group. Thanks for the capture. VX9MRC will continue operation tonight 8 WPM 507.77 kHz, 100 watts. 73 Joe On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 12-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD102-86384b82fdeb1fd; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:58:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14F2338000083; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:58:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgGz-0005Jb-My for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgGz-0005JS-9P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgGw-0005rZ-Nq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2149139bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:56:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=J4LvWJZzriZdbJTjI2JAW6Ajm3a0DB1JkAloRW70UM8=; b=KhN75YpxMQR4YZzrkvgcYlw+Go20zyojzzIGPWb0QlUcASvgZVGcYmuongeunJYbs7 DcEm/ocXNYFVWFBjjz6JrLMIsptOdueClxCIs77lrG/RTGg3/vyxJICci1AGmZvEipxy nBwLK2vZFxEULFuX5l6b28c9qoNkqNmrqWydw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mM7h0mm8az40NDkJGwBbeKDRVTigMuTFTZokWfMVu5XtBwxNc0xJF+lK45+w0lsI2J lAQQ/I4QPg0+twVxBEyAFvcdhjp7TQ9hupi90zhseWnG6g8Y63Egy2sZMjk6f+6NrW4Y wuauh4Wmhn43meB2xwqH+lRRbsmPojnOd0Uww= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.132 with SMTP id k4mr1158088bka.174.1266875812641; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:56:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:56:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221356n4f423789ua3b11369dfb4fe15@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d264.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b82fde80490 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik. Some right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-) 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and > mainland Europe as counterweight ;-) > > Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ________________________________________ > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [ > C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 > Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a > dipole? > > 73, > Chris G4OKW > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik.=A0 So= me right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-)

73s
Roger G3X= BM

On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobb= e <Rik= .Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
I guess the Eur= opean alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainland Europe as co= unterweight ;-)

Rik =A0ON7YD - OR7T

________________________________________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24
Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org'
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed= from
base camp below?

=A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as= a dipole?

73,
Chris G4OKW



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255550cec97e9f0480378259-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b8655d8125; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:50:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73A85380000F7; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:49:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbH9-0001se-Tl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbH9-0001sV-Im for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbH6-00039j-Lg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PAmphd056875 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:48:52 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00246 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:53:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:53:33 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:48:54 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b8655d50c4a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hellow, Stefan. > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km it should be approximately right. Anyway if you can use 100 m high antenna then few of 100's km you should reach. May be substantionally more. For large distances dependance of E on D changes. On the distances more then ~100 km field should have behaviour E ~ sqrt(1/D). This yelds only 10 dB attenuation if distance became 10 times more. Thus if you'll have 20 dB over noise at 100 km (if noise is 0.25 uV/m for example) then you'll have ~10 dB over noise at 1000 km. Do it if you have such an oportunity! It is very interesting. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj10.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.94]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b83a0bc3b1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:32:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 84EA438000067; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:32:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njr74-0008TB-9z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njr73-0008T2-V8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:29 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njr70-00018X-Sn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:29 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o1N9VJdu069201 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:31:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:31:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b44b83a0ba34ca X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 With 8 transmitting sites around the world at 10 kHz. The OMEGA navigation system. Like DECCA and LORAN the system is no longer operational. http://www.jproc.ca/hyperbolic/omega.html 73, Albert PA0A From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF041-5eee4b7438ff1f5; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:06:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 81030380002D4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcTD-0000P3-I3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcTD-0000Ou-6b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfcTB-0003TA-KJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4E05C7000094 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3E4617000095 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 0468A7000094 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:43 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211170444182.0468A7000094@mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b7438f97c9a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Congrats , Dom Bands a bit full these days , but always room for one more ..hi What tx system are you using ? 73 , Graham , -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dominic Baines" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: New NoV > > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD071-8b8c4b6ea147e6; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:17:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E288D380000C0; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne57c-00022A-3p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne57b-000221-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:11 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne57Z-00005K-3D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:11 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17BG8ID003087 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:16:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:04 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b6ea1450e56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Gary, Thank you for your feedback. It is not easy to evaluate the noise situation. Not only varies the noise with frequency, but the bandnoise varies quite a bit from day to day. I always do my noise tests around local noon as the skywave is at a minimum. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b866916d0; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:12:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CC38838000072; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:12:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcYj-0003K3-4k for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcYi-0003Ju-QS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcYg-0004Go-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PCB6SI066095 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:11:07 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00373 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:16:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:16:06 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" In-Reply-To: <8E8D23D235D70840B6582917DF27898006935CAB@temps153538.tms-ltd.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:11:08 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: RE: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b8669134b6e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Reeves Paul wrote: > > Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at > 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much > smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse > through the document - too much info........ Yet another 5 dB! Then we have 5 dB over noise at 1000 km (!!!) in QRSS100. In HAM practics we don't need regulary contact. Thus let's take lowest noise level. Certanly this is very rough estimations. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA082-86184b8240c72cf; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:31:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 912C7380000B5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjTfH-0008Nm-03 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjTfG-0008Nd-8I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:14 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjTfE-0007jL-Ap for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:14 +0000 Received: from mwmweb080 (mwmweb080.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.98]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512B413F4AE3E for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:29:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:29:04 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19GFke/YFXlTuVCGVxBAqjs98QRltiM0qVNwakofu+kZZssF8UOfnfK uPfCYUpF4u67cI6lVxhRdeMcjyV8h0ahXX4xGkUoi9uWazKRvVJLG1fU6N+HJHjt lqYt1dDppJBwALBtmF2ouhgZ5pdybYcjbmKtunL8bNA= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b8240c2425c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =C3=BCber 1000,- =C2=BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB034-86974b8ab9b03e4; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:45:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 634F838000146; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:45:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo7k-00083m-6z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo7j-00083d-N0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:15 +0000 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlo7h-000130-1O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:15 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAItHiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHYtkc7gkhHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="441369725" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:43:56 +0000 Message-ID: <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b8ab9af7da2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger=20 Most of those talking/dreaming about 9 kcs cannot get a signal out bey= ond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it would be FOOLISH for those= persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.=20 Have you noticed the BIG players on LF/MF are not contermplating joini= ng the Dreamers. G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Marcus et al, Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a= go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX= but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon= . Even a few kms will be fun. Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructiv= e comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane com= ments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down= to attention seeking. 73s Roger G3XBM=20 On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrot= e: Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his view= s, we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encourag= ement. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am lo= oking forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments= like this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the= greater amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind= for an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could= be=20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger
Most of those talking/dreaming about= 9 kcs cannot=20 get a signal out beyond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it= would be=20 FOOLISH for those persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.
Have you noticed the BIG players on= LF/MF are not=20 contermplating joining the Dreamers.
G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:39=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX= experiments=20 this sunday

Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimen= ting below=20 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers= . I don't=20 expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QR= SS or WSPR=20 beacon. Even a few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a compl= ete fool=20 of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything.= Most here=20 just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psycho= logists=20 would put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM=20



On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <mark= usvester@aol.com>=20 wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his= views, we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
 
And, best of all, it's fun.<= /FONT>
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 
=
<= /DIV>
From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one= am looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments lik= e this=20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater= amateur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from= his hill=20 top and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAM= ERS face=20 his direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,> Do=20 not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>&n= bsp;=20
> G3KEV
>  .....



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3X= BM
G3XBM=20    GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b8a944b24c; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:05:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C7EE538000287; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NllcY-00063Q-0w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:54 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NllcX-00063C-4B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:53 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NllcU-0008Kd-TJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:53 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAMkiiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHYtkc7ghhHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="451872307" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:02:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:02:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b8a94497065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an= extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be br= oken without the KITE,=20 Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:48 PM Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Dear LF, Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform the= group that because of much heavier winds than expected, he will not= be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also mentioned th= at the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit) will requi= re some more work. Kind regards, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinde= r.com/forecast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a str= enght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable fo= r tests. That is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 10= 0mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily= handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire.= There are several possibilities to increase the maximum antenna volta= ge, well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this= may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first= test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that= and there are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get= the chance to resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to reson= ate it in the living room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry= it in my room in the first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated wi= th 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a= DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in= this way i will be able to make a transformation of the resonated loo= p!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am excited= how the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will= try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to= spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/D= F6NM to give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander= S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave ama= teur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one= of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs= would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn'= t be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one= big town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure= =20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9= kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main= problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable= with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one shoul= d avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting= rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not= too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed speci= ally for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite an= tenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical= , does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity= 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now= we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. Wh= at is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower tim= e to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5= km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wav= e zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fa= st with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide= ' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT vo= ltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the= last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top and=20 face DOWN wind for an extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his=20 direction records could be broken without the KITE,
Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during= the listening=20 period.
 
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 12:48=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX exper= iments this=20 sunday

Dear LF,
 
Stefan DK7FC just called me on the= phone. He=20 asked me to inform the group that because of much heavier winds than= expected,=20 he will not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He=  also=20 mentioned that the output matching of his PA (a converted= SMPS=20 circuit) will require some more work.
 
Kind regards,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 27= , 2010 3:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: VLF TX experim= ents this=20 sunday becomes more probably

Dear LF group,
 
Tomorrow, the wind for= ecast is=20 excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt
It=20 is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a streng= ht of=20 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tes= ts. That=20 is the first positive news.
 
Yesterday i got such a ai= r coil. It=20 has not 85mH but even about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, jus= t about=20 38. Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximu= m voltage=20 on my single wire. There are several possibilities to increase the= maximum=20 antenna voltage, well known and applied in the high voltage power= fields but=20 this may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with= a first=20 test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-)
 = ;
That=20 coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and th= ere are=20 better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the chance= to resonate=20 that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living= room of=20 my parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the firs= t floor=20 ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower vol= tage C in=20 series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely= coupled by=20 another air coil (in this way i will be able to make a transformat= ion of the=20 resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audibl= e so i am=20 excited how the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W=20 applied;-)
 
The last problem is the PA since it is not= yet=20 available. I will try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning= but i=20 have also to spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be=20 arranged...
 
On the hill i have no internet but i will= at least=20 inform Markus/DF6NM to give those who are interested a information= =20 here...
 
I have to go now, and will inform=20 you...
 
73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von:= owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov
Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:3= 7
An:=20 rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
Betreff:=20 RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?



> when back in the mid 90's the initial re= quest for=20 a longwave amateur
> segment (what later turned out to be 13= 7kHz) was=20 discussed, one of the
> big telecom "bobo's" stated that the= y saw no=20 harm that amateurs would
> transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP= as with=20 that power one wouldn't be
> able to get any further than th= e other=20 end of the town.
> It turned out a bit different, unless you= see the=20 world as one big town ;-)

Rik, after some theoretical estim= ations=20 done i am absolutely shure
QRSS communications at few 100s km= (may be=20 more) is posible on 9 kHz.
There is lot of problems on TX side= but them=20 to be solvable. Main problem
is high voltage on the TX ANT. I= expect 100=20 - 200 kV is reachable with
some 'tricks' wellknown for power in= geneers.=20 For example one should avoid
free end of a wire with such a vol= tage. On=20 should use 'protecting rings'
on the ends. With voltage abt 100= kV seems=20 to be posible use not too high
antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well= top=20 loaded marconi designed specially for
high voltage is adequate.= Remember=20 effective height of 60m kite antenna
used in DK8KW experiment= was 30m (if=20 wire was absolutelly vertical, does
it was?). With not too high= voltage=20 and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km
was reached. Another key= problem is=20 noise level on this freq. Now we see
huge discrepancy on the no= ise level=20 got from different sourses. What is
the real noise level is not= obvious=20 now. Can it be much  lower time to
time? Experements to be= usefull.=20 Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km
experiment is described. Wa= terfall=20 background is too smooth. Where
spherics are? This is why i exp= ect RX=20 sensetivity was not as
high as posible. One should remember 4.5= km is=20 begining of the wave zone
on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5= km field=20 decreases not too fast with
distance. Another critical distance= is abt=20 100 km where 'waveguide'
propagation starts. At such distances= one shold=20 increase TX ANT voltage
only in 3 times to reach distance 10 ti= mes more.=20 Anyway Stefan's
experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope= it will=20 be not the=20 last
experiment.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB


=

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC092-862d4b83d59a23e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B52B0380001D2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjudS-0000zy-Lb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjudS-0000zp-4d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjudP-0002zo-M7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3DB13F978D0 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:16:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:16:59 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18+KzZZQ2MJWAzOwSr8KBqIzz9pEcBz69NA/0KmHR4wjs8qfWL1SHOC e4Oh4CUj2k8KwJBK/VN964VeilEH5UboNWqmY5kxl0FVy4C6d9fV6PNRsul1X1vj VtqWZSCxHvZHNXI78BCjB/WRezXiOyMMRIatm9PvsTM= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b83d59837b9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello, first I'd like to share an interesting link that I found some years before= : http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html 8,79 kHz is random choice, not with any reason - except not to got to clos= e to 9kHz of course. Horst ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=C3=BCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB051-85f14b71975339; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:11:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CD2043800022B; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NetbL-0004Kt-24 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NetbK-0004Kk-H2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:14 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NetbH-00037P-TA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:14 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so251502bwz.30 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:10:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=dggSechLNJNSCjdgOnFtuiRIHJn30BQuEisuIMMhzEI=; b=BBlMkb7nNUNp18w+C3vBybwQjzWhp0wN+nhOL1X3zGwzePzuk/woc1dbcj7TtOhJc4 3TdzaPzdkCD+/CCbb0ovWNqY6O51Pkrw/8g9m87Q7e/2VqbjH1W4c2jWtAzjq8JbnKGY GyT5ZHTWdSYRG8azS8NqqWcBIZkmcaC1aKRzw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=xt02DCTmTpuG6uATP7kVTTCj9W1Ss2ZkUFI/nPIpxhHAAB86ofyHnJNMvKcuxmdQiP rqykVx1jpQMoYSu+TW9kvtLQQjaJQvwAQHeUaxQcoBsLsREtpQwCkxY1ar14RDDb6ar2 VbTitR3MNUUHcn2U43/NB8rDfC4iGyOtGsgxY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.4.83 with SMTP id 19mr1052172bkq.11.1265735405397; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:10:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:10:05 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=1.169 Subject: LF: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b7197506547 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transformers used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at input and output. Which is where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal... The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the third turn consisting just the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a connection at the far end. A diagram can be seen at http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 = 900 Watts. (Sanity check, a single ended design at half the Rload = (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 = 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation). Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings could have have become an auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be higher. But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply volts down to 17V. Now, plugging these values into the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 = 100 Watts max possible, - but I was seeing more power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW ? Andy www.g4jnt.com --0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transforme= rs used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?
=A0
I recently acquired some=A0big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW= out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,=A0 RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to= MRF140.=A0 It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail.=A0 The modul= es were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but=A0the des= ign=A0is wideband(ish) with the=A0normal ferrite matching transformers at= input and output.=A0 Which is where I may be missing something - they may= not be quite so normal...
=A0
The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.=A0=A0The seco= ndary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as th= ey pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn=A0has the braid cut at= the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary,=A0with the third= turn consisting just the inner conductor=A0with no braid over it.=A0 =A0= All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual= single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferr= ite cores with a connection at the far end.=A0=A0=A0 A diagram can be seen= at http://www.g4jnt.com/pama= tch.gif=A0=A0
=A0
Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...
the impedances don't work out properly...
=A0
Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.=A0=A0=A0 From a 50V= rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 90= 0 Watts.=A0=A0=A0 (Sanity check, =A0a single ended design at half the Rloa= d=A0=3D =A0 (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calcu= lation).=A0=A0 Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximu= m, anyway.
=A0
BUT,=A0=A0 if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.12= 5 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I&= #39;d expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.
=A0
Has anyone met that winding configuration=A0 before?=A0=A0 Is it real= ly the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the= windings could have have become an auto-transformer and=A0be giving =A01:= 4 turns ratio=A0?
If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hig= her.=A0 But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely.=A0
=A0
=A0
On=A0a quick test on the module today, running from a=A0 10A supply,= it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging= the supply volts down to 17V.=A0 Now, plugging these values into the matc= hing equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible, =A0- but=A0I= was seeing more power.=A0=A0=A0
=A0........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HO= W ?
--0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b6975411b2; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:08:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B9274380002A6; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:08:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncewq-00047Q-OM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncewq-00047H-8g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncewp-0007Yf-7i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203130705.GDIP4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:07:05 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncewj-0008L2-EL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:05 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:07:04 -0000 Message-ID: <007501caa4d1$c87fa890$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqkzefwwNgpWVfVT32HYP5xXnqGvgAA84ww X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=p-K9AEuwBsxSiTMOg_8A:9 a=sUi46UdCvJ9UueMq0FoA:7 a=oibkguSbPkb3FFKjh8kHgJFfMtYA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b69753e6155 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Albert, I'll listen out too as I'd like a CW QSO with PA With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Albert Sent: 03 February 2010 12:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Hello Jay and others, I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, where useful. 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.137]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD082-8b914b67421725f; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:05:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 18473380000CE; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:05:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3RV-0003F0-32 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3RU-0003Er-Kf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc3RS-0001k1-Vb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W53 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:02:13 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:02:13 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2010 21:02:13.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4097A20:01CAA381] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_" Subject: LF: G4JNT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40894b67421434ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_" --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700.

Lubos, OK2BVG= , JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov= =E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregi= strovat =3D --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_-- --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="G4JNT_503700.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAiAo4DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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AKkgAMyggEZ70UUAMP3j9aSiigD/2Q== --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI034-eac14b840d2d35; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:15:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5438138000251; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyKu-0002u6-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyKt-0002tx-KX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:15 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyKs-0005go-3M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:15 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223171406.ENCB10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:06 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyKg-0003fP-I3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:02 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:01 -0000 Message-ID: <02e301cab4ab$98272530$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0qXikUJITinCmSfyegYZm6vcFMwAAXmbA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=h6Bt7xb_cSVbCAdWDxQA:9 a=iFtAYpp8y67jADwk7mYA:7 a=Ubhsba6VqSdaxDQIc2OjAyO0KVYA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=EjRqahn9MYjy1mLw:21 a=UWEy_xRV05pidD32:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=bPV2uaBrCK0c115Nj8QA:9 a=61GY4cdhVTJkD2R6lawA:7 a=Fb0rIxbRO-v5xq0oywVAwXy0JnkA:4 a=MKEXiCd-gXR-sgfU:21 a=SMpsrT1ZfSnvXOj3:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: RE: TOY SALE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b840d1e0cd6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got one in the garage, and a SPM3 and SPM19. I have also the PM60 (RIP Laurie.) My Racal Sig gen has gone unlocked pll on me and I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can implement the ideas from Alan as to how I may resurrect it (the XYL won't let me perform surgery on the kitchen table :-( ) Actually all my JRC Rxs will happily tune down to around 1khz so I'm ok on that front and the old 515 and 505 are v sensitive at VLF. With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 16:58 To: rsgb Subject: LF: TOY SALE Appliance Operator TOY for sale. Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20 kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fumble about with a suitable antenna. mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Got one in the= garage, and a SPM3 and SPM19.  I have also the PM60  (RIP Laurie.)  

 

My Racal Sig ge= n has gone unlocked pll on me and I’m waiting for the weather to warm up so I can implement= the ideas from Alan as to how I may resurrect it (the XYL won’t let= me perform surgery on the kitchen table L 

Actually all my= JRC Rxs will happily tune down to around 1khz so I’m ok on that front and the old 515 and= 505 are v sensitive at VLF.

 

 

With best regards=

  =

Jim

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 23 February 2010= 16:58
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: TOY SALE

 

Appliance Operator TOY for sale.=

Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20= kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fum= ble about with a suitable antenna.

mal/g3kev

 

------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.14]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b744778d7; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:07:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 59A1B3800023C; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdR8-0000uL-So for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdR8-0000uC-Bx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfdR6-000437-PN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BI6Z2p013017 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:06:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:36 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410e4b7447761bf5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, Thank you all. Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. I am not that desperate yet. These items are advertised as low cost.... I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. However these are also hard to find. I will look into it a bit further. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF012-8bca4b83cad827c; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC651380000C5; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nx-Tq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nn-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.132]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njtv9-0002fz-O6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: (qmail 75919 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266928277; bh=Wv6IrZMCXaXDz5SrTMSCcyWBfL4oi2LHCAlp56YO8BY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Qx8PC0NIFjSzhFFkcQWJuH7Xm1FGSj6wj22WhRmM5PHF55oC8WMiDSRR56Wf5LgJktc2WBTEk6lNeo3U30K9JoC2ycxG4BjQzBtjyZ2jXOXUwmU47H35XCO4vIsAJIvvqXpMDt7TkoWMyLkX9TxJG78wvCdsEWA0e7exxDmE61U= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kX8t1rBeJeNAtM0pTlHhHcHABKN34ZDg0Q7NaaQOMCeZiQhDfnDSsXfs0At92dOF2X/ENtfJzZcvZthTYsb1T7OcpP0YIizTIdZ9rhYJAG8ygXn0zW0EXqofg5xTgQ/9R2BS8hC8f8ODoKFRxWakFMT7UXCI5aopdoMlVZp58/k=; Message-ID: <757273.75752.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: wIo88hcVM1mGMzUzXAiEUklaJA6zz8_gNGc3gJKCaDIGPUqfkbck.Q5RfFT_9YDvLKLcueAqZYdkPbWbjq_2aHpIzOcod7WvduwO5HJ6rqyNOxgTrugf4e_QbQbeKngE2U4mxCLs4KJlKINzZQXbuqayE_Uou_WAIKhfKgUd1FaB56HvQDPsOvClmx6Jg4bOfc4BHQ5z4X3fOVwEQOdILoeH13XOHIORNjV68F7.vzdg.y_jlD5LqUrxsMuHUpx9m1efK1szNAVStDUBGqz9ssAu4S_yPdvS62AMy1TDGDLMmbhtvyieIyE1eqqa_BaMDX2t Received: from [81.131.8.179] by web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m222.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4b83cad63547 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I worry that this= will form a lossy capacitor because the dielectric a think film of ali ox= ide will break down in places at this voltage and also there is the inknow= n of the contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can be= a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as a capacitor in= an HV pulse generator many years ago and though the spec is 6kV it certai= nly survived 15kV with no burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed= this format at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either= of us did any tests. I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative old TV EHT type?? Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a lot less to carry= if you are operating "portable" Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > Rik, Alan,=20 > =20 > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > vertical loop by using the ground.=20 > =20 > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper > C (to ground), especially when talking about high voltages > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and easy to > adjust/modify... > =20 > Stefan >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 00:12 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =20 > what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna > base to ground ? > It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to > 100 and at the same time transform the high loss resistance > (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value. > Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, > so power should be more modest than 780 Watt. > A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or > similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m > you would 10 to 100m cable. > =20 > 73, Rik > =20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Yep Rik > =20 > So how do I load it? > =20 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the > coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while the > wire held out before melting.=20 > =20 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =20 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of > the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =20 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on this > reflector about this subject but I am looking for a > practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, > ideas-wise.=20 >=20 > If I can load it with any of the power levels above there > are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like > G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km > away.=20 > =20 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule > fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not > the answer. > =20 > So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: Rik Strobbe > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Pete, > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance > of 1345 Ohm. > =A0=A0=A0 So even if the coil doen't get hot by > the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power. > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > ________________________________ >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > =A0=A0=A0 Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 > 19:19 > =A0=A0=A0 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > Hi Group > =20 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my > inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio > amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored > former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by > about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty > hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =20 > =20 > =A0=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: James Cowburn > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 All we need is a wire strung between K2 > and Everest summits and fed from > =A0=A0=A0 base camp below? > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 -----Original Message----- > =A0=A0=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > ] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > =A0=A0=A0 Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 No license is required in the US below > 9kHz. > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 I agree with Mal its very difficult to > radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > =A0=A0=A0 alone 9kHz! > =A0=A0=A0 --=20 > =A0=A0=A0 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN > MELIA > > > =A0=A0=A0 wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it > is not allowed. You probably need to > =A0=A0=A0 contact Andy G4JNT for details he did > approach the regulator at one time > =A0=A0=A0 maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing > his tests the answer as I remember > =A0=A0=A0 was:- > =A0=A0=A0 > Frequencies below 10kHz are not > allocated by International Treaty but we > =A0=A0=A0 control all frequencies between DC and > gamma rays, and no we will not be > =A0=A0=A0 issuing any licences for that region. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > I believe that was the > RadioCommunications Agency things may be different > =A0=A0=A0 now with Ofcomm. The best person to know > whether an approach would be > =A0=A0=A0 worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who > nursed the 500k stuff through. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > Alan G3NYK > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, > Stefan_Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 > > wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, > 2010, 11:32 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Ok Roger, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And do you know if f<9kHz is > free for other countries in > =A0=A0=A0 >> europe as > =A0=A0=A0 >> well? What about the UK? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> If such a grounded dipole is > best, than it is easy to build > =A0=A0=A0 >> a big > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna without the problems we > have on LF (getting the > =A0=A0=A0 >> wire high above > =A0=A0=A0 >> ground). So we also could try > big/long antennas. Waht do > =A0=A0=A0 >> you mean with > =A0=A0=A0 >> amateur levels? Power range is > clear, something arround > =A0=A0=A0 >> 500W+-6dB. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> the antenna? Sure, if you think > about building an antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the > =A0=A0=A0 >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very > effective but what about > =A0=A0=A0 >> 2x500m in a > =A0=A0=A0 >> forrest, perhaps with the > loading coils (which will be on a > =A0=A0=A0 >> ferrite > =A0=A0=A0 >> toroid i think) mounted 300m > apart from the center? That > =A0=A0=A0 >> could be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting and easy to try. No > tower, no earth radials, > =A0=A0=A0 >> just 2 wires > =A0=A0=A0 >> hung up on some trees and > measured the impedance at the > =A0=A0=A0 >> feed point, > =A0=A0=A0 >> that would be a first step. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> This antenna will still be bad > but what we are doing -on LF > =A0=A0=A0 >> it is the > =A0=A0=A0 >> same- is beeing fascinated to > reach a good distance and > =A0=A0=A0 >> make some > =A0=A0=A0 >> contacts at very low > frequencies, although it would be much > =A0=A0=A0 >> easier on > =A0=A0=A0 >> 40/80m... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And so, if one would reach 50km > with such a short dipole, > =A0=A0=A0 >> the > =A0=A0=A0 >> fascination would be enormous, > isn't it? ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried > such experiments as well? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> With the ground wave, one could > reach the whole europe, i > =A0=A0=A0 >> expect. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> that are dreams... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Stefan/DK7FC > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb > Roger Lapthorn: > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0At this > frequency, widely spaced, grounded > =A0=A0=A0 >> electrode pairs are > =A0=A0=A0 >> probably the best > "antenna".=A0 There are > =A0=A0=A0 >> references to how these work > in > =A0=A0=A0 >> the literature (for example > NATO AGAARD papers from the > =A0=A0=A0 >> 1960s, > =A0=A0=A0 >> available on the internet I > believe) and on one of the > =A0=A0=A0 >> German ham sites > =A0=A0=A0 >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0 . > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Don't expect > great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > =A0=A0=A0 >> aim with modern > =A0=A0=A0 >> signal processing technology > and reasonable (amateur > =A0=A0=A0 >> levels) available > =A0=A0=A0 >> power. Project Sanguine > achieved worldwide coverage to > =A0=A0=A0 >> submarines at > =A0=A0=A0 >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used > enormous power and antennas > =A0=A0=A0 >> stretching for > =A0=A0=A0 >> 100s of kms. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A073s > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Roger G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A02010/2/22 > Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Hello Horst, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> That sounds really nice. If it > would be easy to find some > =A0=A0=A0 >> motivated OMs > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the near field (31km) ;-), > that would be an interesting > =A0=A0=A0 >> field to > =A0=A0=A0 >> test. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Yesterday i have thought about > possible antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> configurations for that > =A0=A0=A0 >> range and got the idea that one > could use a forrest as an > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> tower. There, you could hang up > 100s meters of wire, in > =A0=A0=A0 >> series and in > =A0=A0=A0 >> parallel. You do not need to > have that area beside your > =A0=A0=A0 >> house. Nobody > =A0=A0=A0 >> will see the wire and nobody > will care about it. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Since summer 2007 i have a > horizontal loop antenna mounted > =A0=A0=A0 >> in some > =A0=A0=A0 >> trees on my hill with excellent > results on all HF bands and > =A0=A0=A0 >> also 160m. > =A0=A0=A0 >> The loop has 130m and is > mounted up to 12m above ground. > =A0=A0=A0 >> Perfect > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching from 160m to 10m with > my symmetric tuner. I even > =A0=A0=A0 >> tried > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching on 2200m without a > problem but with bad ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> results, of > =A0=A0=A0 >> course. But if one would try 2x > 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> would be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS > and thus a little far i > =A0=A0=A0 >> think ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> What is your RX antenna and > have you already catched some > =A0=A0=A0 >> commercial > =A0=A0=A0 >> VLF stations in that range? Are > there some? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> 73, Stefan > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> PS: One can be sure that there > will never be SSB operation > =A0=A0=A0 >> ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing > on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hallo Stefan, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> there was a notice in > Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > =A0=A0=A0 >> DL the range > =A0=A0=A0 >> <9kHz is free. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> I could not believe that so I > asked the BNetzA and after a > =A0=A0=A0 >> while I got > =A0=A0=A0 >> a letter which confirmed that. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> So there nothing you've got to > do for getting a > =A0=A0=A0 >> licence. You do not > =A0=A0=A0 >> need one. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> There is no limitation of > technical parameters like > =A0=A0=A0 >> bandwith or power. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hard to believe in german, but > obviously true. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Horst > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ___________________________________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber > 1000,- =BF sparen! > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> G3XBM=A0 =A0 GQRP > 1678=A0 =A0 =A0 ISWL > =A0=A0=A0 >> G11088 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> ---------------------------- > =A0=A0=A0 >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der > Universit=E4t > =A0=A0=A0 >> Heidelberg > =A0=A0=A0 >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > =A0=A0=A0 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.134]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b719e8b362; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:42:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B1BF83800015A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Neu5X-0004T6-OZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; 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format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40864b719e887bf4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks, Victor! 73 Andrey > Hello all, > > received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr > transmissions (15% tx) > > 73 > > Victor > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF084-5f014b7f0b1523f; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:05:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 33E7F38000075; 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bh=RQkJZioN19x5BA7YzK86Y19fH4XhBXiAZ3BxN1U1pyU=; b=k88mRtldv2k2/c2kvp+P9HiBzCcUUsSfc8dUoLYZwzSlm2lYQZutl8TaholTlUNdQL /9HFysWKiT+U90eaL3lbAQZG4p7nnHZBIrO9qLHbgsfBdogWq72gWfR5VnFGcGQzJvcl KJPK4V1ecAClATiI/TOg0PtlVSTKub0NnxDgM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:x-goomoji-body:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=NZclM0RCiiqEP+G9B3sVLG16Uqpsl6CFoiIbvgCxKWCjgWtYdeTHCvnz8Y/X0dU4bR TkTDWeXAU2egieibXRW+mXh68hcwybNbTC270DyP0mq8iwAkULWZNhemfZNIWPdJdgQE fq/7XyKzeix5pD8F4dtprJXDk3kFmOXK/kLqQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.6.203 with SMTP id a11mr1675126bka.33.1265372913264; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:28:33 -0800 (PST) X-Goomoji-Body: true Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:28:33 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.88,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: CQ Test Content-Type: multipart/related; 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Its all a bit quiet
=A0
=A0
--0015175884b600e9f8047ed99744-- --0015175884b600e9fa047ed99745 Content-Type: image/gif; name="1B2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 1B2@goomoji.gmail Content-ID: <1B2@goomoji.gmail> R0lGODlhEAAMAKIGAOoDA4oAAf/v7wAAAP9YWP/IyAAAAAAAACH5BAEAAAYALAAAAAAQAAwAAAM9 SLbU3ssQ4IS91oEAgChgGHaBEQRCIILqGRHfIMqF8sb0QNvMt4Y8ie9XiwgLqlAyCGOdksUbERSU PK6RBAA7 --0015175884b600e9fa047ed99745-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b7990bb278; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E236738000201; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:21:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ym-0003ty-KH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ym-0003tp-AR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh5Yi-0003VB-Ch for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1FIKLak019709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0330 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> Message-ID: References: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: 137 khz canada Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b7990b96d63 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Vern, Group. Try: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf /$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf 73 Joe VO1NA On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, vernjac@mts.net wrote: > Can anyone tell me where I can find the official notification that the 2200 metre band is now available to Canadian Amateurs > > Tks Vern Ve4XC > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b7a41ff165; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:58:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5A0D8380003A4; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhHMK-0004e4-TX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhHMK-0004dv-Dp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s6.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhHMJ-0006w2-1W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from COL122-W43 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s6.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:55:25 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:55:25 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2010 06:55:25.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[04271E20:01CAAED5] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_" Subject: LF: XKO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55086 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b7a41fe347a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_" --_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There were strange propagations last night. I saw only a traces of XGJ and= XKO signals whole night (but F1AFJ saw nice signals). My best snapshot wa= s taken about 40 minutes after sunrise in OK. Compare with Jean-Pierre=B4s= grabber! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
There were strange propagations last night. I saw only a trac= es of XGJ and XKO signals whole night (but F1AFJ saw nice signals). My bes= t snapshot was taken about 40 minutes after sunrise in OK. Compare with Je= an-Pierre=B4s grabber!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
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3R4zEwJfJ+4Svt2xgUAZ4kdQQrEA9gabRUizyqhQSNsPG3PFAEdFTiSAxkNCFfsy5/qaKAIKXJIx niiigBKKKKACpbZQ1wgYAgnoaKKAEuAFncAYAPQVGKKKAJVuplPEhPb5uf51GSWOTj8BiiigBKMk 96KKAHj7jDA/KmUUUAFFFFAAST1NFFFABRRRQBdsI0dJC6BiOmRVQkq5Kkgg8EUUUAK80kv+skd8 f3mJpu5gu0MdvpniiigBUdo3DoxVh0Ip008lxJvlbc3TNFFAEdFFFABRRRQBLbk/aIwCRlgDg4rT 1nMJjRWYqecOxf8AnmiigDHooooAXcdu3Jx6dqSiigBS7MACxIHQUUUUAf/Z --_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.93]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b731ccd2fa; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:53:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 53BA4380002EA; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:53:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfJXS-00074b-2v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfJXR-00074S-O8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:57 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s4.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.14]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfJXP-0004zf-Db for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:57 +0000 Received: from COL122-W63 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s4.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:51:48 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:51:48 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2010 20:51:48.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD2977F0:01CAAA92] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_" Subject: LF: CW_QSO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605d4b731ccb492d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I improve my internet connection line between my hamshack and remote recei= ving station. I am happy that I am able to hear normal CW sound yet, not= only see pictures of QRSS. I have just been listening the cw QSO PA0LCE= (559) and EI0CF (579).=20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I improve my internet connection line between my hamshack and= remote receiving station. I am happy that I am able to hear normal CW sou= nd yet, not only see pictures of QRSS. I have just been listening the cw= QSO PA0LCE (559) and EI0CF (579).

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zd= arma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregistrovat =3D --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.218]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF021-8bcd4b6de60b363; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:58:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B55BF3800016B; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndsef-0006Q4-Vl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndsef-0006Pv-Hh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndsed-00077B-Hq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: (qmail 34444 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2010 21:57:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1265493441; bh=Lj1lB3Xk9vCEi3ugvNwqCjZRvxljm8sIh6xLh7Ptmdw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AvFPBbZo9Tg6mo/1s3rxP4iyLayC6eaWzLgkhKfc65vRDyJEYmJkfoQfklLcQN5CASN5xhjz8WkdcfM+CaurH6yg2tYeok94KbWNm7x9teRCBQ+se4BTY0S9SGIMpOMiiMfdyupDSGoAtwzjUYPbS9LIzeQsMzydc+A1eE0+ITo= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HwL0AsfVL5fSTequFAQ1o2kc9Dj8at3tFJnF5hgF9R3QIbPH4UcZvc4STFZKnF4ygKJyeRYApIaDoEINL3o0FMOvmBJp0rPwuDo3mNfpa9bui71rtG52naAz7NfH3b9GpNigyAWz8pI3iK+lq4Z650aibGcBeQIL2vlaMOUAMqM=; Message-ID: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: CAkOdxIVM1lsM.0Fx8A4kwMC4mTOgBvOyE2nlE.u23vLogvvcEouiNy2XzDLdcdMNapaXAn5r0e7xK_jSL9qzOqrhVd_ICaiDBgHo6klZScCyZJ51IQnotDyHtc9Vkrl_2mYaMZBzIpj33gbWIdWscMhjfCTDoiL1hjeAAFALTwQK3gz17Z_4tFOez0hFtKYlB.pnerSHO3b2RcL7D3m1zkjgRpw1T4VGi3lZ7lB0HM1M8z5CWSGh_FBLDdoA61WB1.Ow3Q2epCzzUw8XpV7u3L8GnETHYdprnO0byyZ5fgz7nltU.i3d1HEWbtlUYxqddMUuLNM9clgSMgiqOnas1FOQldC9kVNMpE- Received: from [81.131.21.206] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:20 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:57:20 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40da4b6de609585e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan and Roelof, I would discount that until you have proved it for= yourself. Unfortunately there are a lot of "urban myths" about LF aerials= propagated by those who dont know how they work. There are a lot of varia= bles and the noise profiles are almost unique to each installation. I am= sure one of you will do it "properly" soon and advise us the outcome. Gro= unding the mast(or not), connecting a ground to the feeder, where does the= feeder run with respect to the mast, what are the "standard signal" stren= gths (DCF39 ?) at different heights and how does the noise level vary.....= ..are all possible differences. Isn't LF fun :-)) so much to experiment wi= th. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK --- On Sat, 6/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: active ant on metallic mast > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Saturday, 6 February, 2010, 16:46 > Hi Roelof, LF, > =20 > Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting > Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it > assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not > optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application > is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, > the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the > environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i > assume), compared to the active element (gate of the FET). > Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources? > I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use > are comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our > experiences :-) > =20 > A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is > used, since in a coax application there remains a high C of > the ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is > used (since the active element has just a few pF to the far > field). That special question is: What will happen, when the > case/ground electrode becomes small against the active > element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will > there be a change in the optimal C of the active element to > the far field? I assume, then, one has to define an optimal > C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short > dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active > antenna that is directly placed on the ground with a almost > ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of > the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm > problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? > =20 > On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the > active antenna mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a > wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be > better when increasing the active element since signals were > weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was > still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but > rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the > hight above gnd? > =20 > I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going > through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be > very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no > trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was > S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even > without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be > compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of course. > =20 > What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think > will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against > the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C for > both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like > as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 > =20 > Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable > antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. > That will be interesting to play with ;-) > =20 > 73!! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Stefan, >=20 > Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active > whip won't work=20 > well on a metalic mast. > I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to > lack of a=20 > suitable mast. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD011-8b744b82c005270; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:33:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6D53B38000088; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:33:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc9D-00032R-Iq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc9D-00032I-2K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njc9A-0003dl-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1893667bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=BFmwGAMnTVhn7JLBVO2Betwxt0mactOFoBKp4scEuwg=; b=JsFxWC6XcPfHDidDneyt60BrKHqk0+/wPulASdYyjXc4NCau90Ko7lg/u4cGaf/OQZ O8fK14AHliKyryB5XsqxzbZUu0tHJmKSiyKjplBWRQLYbelGYiePefNB6EeX/EpX6Z38 x95ciEHAVM14JgULnoVseEnIFRcQeYceR5Gl4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=W+Cs8lI6KyZloEnBxM4yPNPNhMctG+s/kMkf5nfh7FbbFFbPiYa1jbMtaIl/+sO3Ko p1VoIVAT5QPu14q7NIpTOPtEWJH8kVF+pwvIieD/7B9gHGuYulfaSW1LLgBT9BlzpoZ4 0xjNeewJIT7Kc41yImBSXtwXRzSaTQPhta4B0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.137.1 with SMTP id u1mr900616bkt.151.1266859954121; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d284.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4b82c0025c47 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce in Cook Strait. :-) I think the chances of this working are All Black. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:24, Chris Trayner wrote: > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a > dipole? > > 73, > Chris G4OKW > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce= in Cook Strait. :-)

I think the chances of this working are All= Black.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22= February 2010 17:24, Chris Trayner <C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fe= d from
base camp below?

=A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Islan= d as a dipole?

73,
Chris G4OKW






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-db07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB071-85f34b708709181; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:50:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 40B6B38000251; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebOf-0001ak-6a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebOe-0001ab-PX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:56 +0000 Received: from qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.40]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebOc-0004UO-EV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:56 +0000 Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87]) by qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fZ1l1d00B1swQuc54ZjnKl; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:47 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fZlD1d00H2DDHkk3bZlEcR; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:41:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b7087074c7b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonder if the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple mat= ter to trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream..= . Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave G3WCB=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure Dear LF, Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is= an announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services.=20 http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/=20 LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran closure Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here.= Both ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really sh= utting down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on,= probably because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket see= m to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wonder if the loran sights will= be up for=20 sale. Should be a simple matter to trim the loading coil for resonance= at 137=20 kHz. One can dream...
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2<= /FONT>
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave G3WCB
Sent: Monday, February 08, 20= 10 4:32=20 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Loran closur= e

Dear=20 LF,
 
Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site,= where there is an=20 announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. 
 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ 
 
LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK&n= bsp;=20 :-(
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB IO91RM
-----Original Message-----
From:= owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Mar= kus=20 Vester
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Loran=20 closure

Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good= traces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it= looks like=20 the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast=20 chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian= =20 participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as= 9960 has=20 not appeared with 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.21]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA082-b5314b82b01fd8; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:26:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 86D5E3800011C; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb5v-0002CM-TE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb5v-0002CC-Gz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njb5s-00031I-V0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1MGPsvE004967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1MGPsEC004964 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41154b82b01963a4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I've done some tests on VLF also, like many others on this group. For antennas i've used a 1.5m x 2.5m 3-turn loop, a 4mx14m 1-turn loop, and coupling to external structures (i won't disscuss this bit here :). Using the third antenna i can receive my vlf beacon abt 750m from here. The power was abt. 2W from a TDA2030: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/20100203/vlfcapt3747.jpg The receiving antenna was a 100turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 90cm. This loop was tuned to resonance and amplified. Using the 4x14m loop and abt. 40w from a TDA1562 i can receive it from 930m: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/capt0706082213.jpg The receiving antenna was a 50turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 80cm. This loop was connected to the amplifier virtual ground (broadband design like "easyloop"). If i remember correctly i could receive 40W into the 1.5x2.5m 3-turn loop at about 500m. Unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to play with e-field antennas, which should be much more efficient. I've noted that for b-field antennas nearby installations (power lines, phone lines etc) can carry the vlf signal far away (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b777deb27f; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:36:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFA7638000280; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:36:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgWCi-0000h4-Gh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgWCh-0000gv-Tf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:31 +0000 Received: from web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.77]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgWCe-0001mN-TD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 160 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2010 04:35:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266122121; bh=97WKKCv20qhQOWhFId2D51uyic3p3qJKmDKqIuuABx4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0zeaxf8YLWz9nM4tlc/PfmdKdjCYchJhm0PoR2c8HGChiLHw8bKUYaickv9QbRGUZbtKki5eqdj4YJN70oISIC4Qlsa3jmzfSdfb0uVkIftPVhL5uMYA/p4+GILFNlY03Jwki1H/YGcolMSpBd88OmlaAk9ErtZ45qKrR+ZkPSg= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Iu1b/RmcB/wUXKKHRAUVOlwrrcmC42OXvwdjYh24Y5KvixfOF2i66buyQUaK44zHld3KmacS2ieUWNHVVE3K9mKyHu+DM3fWJqD2njPN3Yp5SnOMqGY834hro84GEzQ4IGSmLeyAwt2V/mVCoxxl2C6TfINl00fcXVC2ozKihpA=; Message-ID: <228790.97819.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: hWFBEtYVM1kptkh4ki9WTv7MpBAHWiHQLBM5BK.b18tdIoRFuatEXm3_xkwCSX.mbyr.LkYBuJJUz33JRvNm507s9FDwFf8npGsO8OQx.3tCGCcpMYs6bGE3QaoJ_guzoIIce1xVJwX39URqvrWt3BQQlNxhZMTPOJQO5JJc5Xvi7NIWHGnjN8khaNP00S47wsVsOylzBPmIB6kl7TUobaXXipJobvVVB_2pVImp.1xVn2rix6UqxbzHquzVktHn4kSzSXmS4fy444g_7EZg2.f6nA58yHq1dDKcSTM- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:35:21 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:35:21 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: 600 meter group , Part-15 Yahoo , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: I'm proud of this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d268.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b777de95317 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Greetings all; and best wishes:: To some this may be trivial; but to myself, it is something I have tried for over 2 years, and tonight the propagation was great, and I was able to decode " DCF77 " with MultiPSK Clock. The signal peaked at S-6, solid copy. I made a recording of the signal, but it had=20 began to fade and was showing signs of multipath. I also have a=20 screen shot of the decode. Both can be acessed at ::: http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ Does anyone know if DCF77 will confirm receptions by QSL card ?? I still have not decoded HGB yet, and time is running out for it. 73 All::: =20 Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.218]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI012-eab74b6b349d2a; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A2BF380001AB; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8ja-0006S2-Ke for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8ja-0006Rt-9F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd8jY-00047b-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from COL122-W48 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:21 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:55:22 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 20:55:21.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DA43070:01CAA5DC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_" Subject: LF: PE5T X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6b34973b51 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_" --_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There is a nice signal from PE5T on cw. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
There is a nice signal from PE5T on cw.

Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS

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C1W2tYIrq4EKyugGW/dk8+nI/Hiub8C2Nlqniq20/UULWtyrI2HK4wNw5H0/WsF7meSFYnnkaNeQ jOSBxjp9KYjtG4dGKsDkEHBFVChKFJ0+bV317X/yE5Ju9j2DTfD3g37Vq1vrDWa/Y9QaO2zP5QZW UFVOMZxz19DViaXwDca3p9uh0hoSJllSOHahbAwS2OMY4Oec/SvGJZpJ5WlmkaSRjlmY5Jplc7wE pT55VJbfItVbR5bI9k1rVvAEOkX1lbrpf2mWBlhe2s9wRucHftznIrB+IVvoFv4d0ZdM+xfbP+Wz W4UM3yDJYD3/AKV5zRVUcAqTTU27O+r3CpVc3dpHoPwui0W5uNRh1eK1kdY1ltxMik5Gc4JH0rnP Cl1FF4202Z4EaKS6CNHj5QrnafyDfpWDTo5HikWSN2R1OQynBH410ex96Tv8X4Ec2x7fJpHhCPXd X064tbGEPaI8CMoA37W3GNsfToTiqa6Ppsvh7wpfCJWuS9rDPyG/dnIb5SDt5PJ4+vFeQSXMsqwh 3JMK7IznkDJOPzJqSDUL2AEQ3MyEqEyrnO0HOB7ZrmWCkrfvH/SsVzrse0rbeD7PXNQglOlx2hto HhB248zLgkHHJ4Hc9PevELiFre4khYgsjFSVOQcelOnuGnWNSAqRrtVVzgckn9TUNb4fDuje8m72 38iZSv0PcLTS/Bp0jS9R1iHT4pprKIn7RckAfL0VAf6V5t4/k0qTxXM2jG3Np5ac2wAQtjnGK5pn ZyC7M2AAMnOAO1IcZ46fyrLD4N0qjqOblfvsi51VKKikkegfDKy0nVI9asNVMbRyRRSCN5fLyFY5 O7jGMitfxjpHhHT/AAZe/wBiLYvciSNldJ/NkC7sHkk4GRj868oBK9CRxjijOM47054Scq6q+0aX boCqJQ5eVep6X8MrTTdR0LW7XUrWB41eOXzJDtJwGOM98EDj/aNbUp0OfQPDWuXNvpZlklgiuTJs ChAGDAA8DH+eleNKzKcqSD6g0pdiu0sSvpn/AD6mlUwbnUc+dr/hrCU7K1j3f7N4EsLkwGPQUl3E bGIlYk5IHOQvX8OBXhU6us8iyKFcMQwAAwc+g4qOlZmdizMWY8kk5Jq8JhPq97ycr9x1avtLaJW7 HpM9ppV98H4NQuRCupW4MULBsHb5nTHqQP515ujtG6upIZTkEdQabRWtKk6d7u93f08jNu56N8UL XS4o9LvbBYzNfKZZ3zliQqgfQe1ec09pXeNY2YlVJYAnucZ/kKaMBhuBI7gHFOjTdOCi3cG7sSii itRBRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQArEHBAxxg0lFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFOjKCVTICUz 8wHXFFFADaKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAp7ybwi7QAoxx396KKAGUUUUAFFFFABRRRQB//9k= --_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.11]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b865dd696; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:24:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8728838000088; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbo0-0002DG-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbo0-0002D7-AL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkbnx-0003Yl-TX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4439851bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:22:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nTxOZr1HUCstU+icVvUmdhXRat5KGzxl4o4LWPpiR+8=; b=DKG90ZvYl8Ur2of1cCLZ815ViyOV5cMtqEYDCoP23cXtQN4queyn/kIacnQvHVy+LT miQBC5+niF1X94YPqsE0hx+D1H9XnO/VzLWJIjhXR85/LTrAvGpwcd6pKtAPeCory38g p522Muo35IIKYjAsJH6V7tbNqfBNVk3Xdyx90= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lxhUPgkS+lK3yu7FbbL+XhW06TnpMCVHpMTbhB9x4gUQ1YGAVbccvFUj2sBAH46MJT k9ghQs7XAD4bqnREjWOX/BcOhylvOS2VFJ1N6kJkn3dw9Z0nsibTK/XXv/7+Di54ymQM iDzCmcfzaHi6Clp2AEJtlsafq/O72+h+Jq/qQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.16.194 with SMTP id p2mr645334bka.32.1267096967105; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:22:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:47 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d298.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410b4b865dc9789e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with. In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna : At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = 88*10^6 m^2 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal. A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted. Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state. Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ? So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy. When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth. That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > Hellow, Stefan. > > > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz > > With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be > recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be > very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas > about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km > it should be approximately right. > > --00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio En= gineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given= as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB.=A0=A0 This will have ris= en over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial /=A0d= omestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shou= ldn't be outrageous to start with.
=A0
In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB =3D -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi= antenna.=A0=A0Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW= =A0of noise=A0from such a beast
=A0
To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of= a 9kHz isotropic antenna=A0:
At 9kHz, lambda =3D 33333m,=A0=A0 G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2,=A0=A0 G =3D= =A01,=A0 =A0so=A0 A =3D=A0 88*10^6=A0 m^2
=A0
1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in=A0this aperture=A0means no= ise density Nd =3D is=A0 1.1E-11 W/m^2
Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQRT(Nd. 377)
=3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,=A0=A0=A0 or 65uV/=A0(ROOT Hz)
=A0
So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwid= th
=A0
Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just= about detect the signal.=A0=A0 A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long,= so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power level= s quoted.
=A0
Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz band= width become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't= even higher these days than those curves state.=A0=A0 Does anyone have ac= cess to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ?=A0=A0=A0
=A0
So I'm afraid 9kHz communication=A0at power levels we could gener= ate domestically is really not all that easy.=A0=A0=A0 When I applied for= the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using= a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth.=A0=A0= That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic ti= mescales - probably at no more than a few km
=A0
On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov= <fitec@omskcit= y.com> wrote:
Hellow, Stefan.

> If that calculation is reasonably correct, what= distance could be
> reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz

With= such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be=
recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be
= very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas
= about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=3D100= km
it should be approximately right.

--00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.30]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE074-5ebd4b6dae4f114; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:00:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E3DE13800022F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndowc-0005U6-KS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndowc-0005Tx-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdowZ-0005jR-Nc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o16HxbUB004257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0330 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> Message-ID: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411e4b6dae4d03d8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, Scott Tilley wrote: > Joe, What are you up to now? Hi Scott, I'm hoping you can send me some of your art work for a VX9 QSL card... you know --the one with the X as a cross-bones and the Newfoundland Pirate motif! Saw a real cat-o-nine tails in the museum last week, but nobody at Industry Canada seems to have a use for it yet :-) > VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: >> Has VE finally been given 2200m then? >> Yes, Steve, at last! I was snooping around on the Indusstry Canada trying to find our joint report on Canadian 2200m experiments we sent them last summer and found instead a "Canadian Table of Frequency Allocations 9 kHz to 275 GHz (2009 Edition)" http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf/$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf After a couple of inquiries, it does seem indeed as if Canadians are now officially authorised to use 2200m. Horray! 73 Joe VO1NA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD071-860d4b8a45ab28f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:30:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 157F438000085; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:30:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlgON-00031Y-Lj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlgON-00031P-6x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlgOK-0006yo-KH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SASlxI095066 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:28:48 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00211 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:50 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9C37FBB31AF6404980D3039622DBE323@Black> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:28:50 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b8a45a9644b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the laptop > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screenshot, > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patched for > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. Dear Markus, In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=1uW D=6km yelds E=1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. But we should normalyze this to bandwith. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF073-5efc4b82caf62bb; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:20:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73CC938000145; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:20:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njcsh-0003ik-7j for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njcsg-0003ib-CP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:42 +0000 Received: from web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njcsg-00047M-5l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:42 +0000 Received: (qmail 39328 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 18:19:35 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266862775; bh=k7dU27iawPuC2FgAXvkbKiJGh93OI4LJ9GwQbX+s+Tc=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=z3vOCKrjmWb1S15iS8psdStgmZfmoziHcMkU+x6TsW20qBKx19oKtcD3OkLQcx4YbUVTvFW3lX8cNWcOnuELAoJXhiW/uKWy2F2wKPMwlvtzPwJdJ4hktj9Di+Ov47MkzhmUnbQJbhmzz0TvPkqIlU2Lst46yGYv93ijkOrGRb4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=lrPmdxhZ3kpHQQZGTWU8wUH0Rwx/JHfxXzplBWGHImZL5yvOaRimN4V4lw9SKTJ3ZBMywYZO862W79M2MnjAbBYEaHaVTSNgf8ifFVJHn56XRJ7qfY/thkZ8JwGyojLmyMDRVkhH+a/lTKwRMLLQalPhdoa/r6RDOCq1vZ9rTcw=; Message-ID: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: mz09mckVM1mclOZ5zrITa32etemIL7K8HOEagW8FllTIgaZMZaqAqrMC9R8SpJS7Gr8BRfn_qSvRR1N0N1N6c_.JAMYnrnD.q2xpD5Z1iWB037Q_BDXhfbxJoKGe_5bV4U2ltLyabkI_nORh9eFOpfLJhFMzoqyWjVhgUKriCh1M_H1xzTSFDMs5Z0Lr5V3WkiMbjIJNMETEfl3HJwU62p7DB81hE4YVsCTjbAeTEg.LyNJAf8D94fIBxPYEEviNrOTQEUSXHGNgxGDBM8bF1RFmc8Q9sZqBxwBgekpqQ1axkeE0vJ4iEw62TFUU Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:19:34 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:19:34 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m276.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b82caf26059 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Group =A0 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" = ; on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10,= James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: owne= r-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.<= BR>
I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz,= let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
      &nbs= p;         WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/= 23
                WE2XEB/2
=                 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>= Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to<= BR>contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rem= ember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by Intern= ational Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays= , and no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be dif= ferent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer=
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <Stefan= .Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79= kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna with= out the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>= > you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, somet= hing arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if= you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden= , say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a<= BR>>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>&g= t; that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will= still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>&g= t; same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> mak= e some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be= much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>>= And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the=
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03,= schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency,= widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>>= probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to ho= w these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers= from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I belie= ve) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) -= see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't= expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) av= ailable
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to=
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous= power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>= ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/= 2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>> &nb= sp; Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That soun= ds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs=
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
&g= t;> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>= ;> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>&g= t; in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF= bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mou= nted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from= 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>>= matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results,= of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
&= gt;> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&= gt;> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________= __________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
&g= t;>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>=     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconin= g on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamat= eur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz= is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not beli= eve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>= > a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> lice= nce. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>><= BR>>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= ; bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _________________________________________= __________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000= ,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de= /go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= ;> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3x= bm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk<= /A>
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      = ;ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------= ----
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Um= weltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>&= gt; schaefer@iup.uni-heidel= berg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49)= (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
= >



=20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-mf04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF043-8be74b859d801f3; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:43:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BA8E8380002AB; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOzo-0007bT-Cd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOzo-0007bK-1w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:16 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOzm-0007rW-9i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:15 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100224214208.IOZB4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:08 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOzg-00052c-3Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:08 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:04 -0000 Message-ID: <00a201cab59a$354d7460$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acq1mHB3MuhcLMwEQsqqMyGHqzCYOAAAa1WA In-Reply-To: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=AUwoxtSXBqyp88UOAoMA:9 a=Xh9zPtCJqlMQ4ZPKuWZ2B5H5lgwA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b859d7c5472 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 V sad! Just like when they dropped the masts at Rugby! A v sad day indeed From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC073-a97d4b7ef3fb3b9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:26:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C0FC380000BE; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:26:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZP9-0006Lv-SQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZP9-0006Lm-I8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiZP6-0002NI-Ti for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B8F5F0002 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:47 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Marcin?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:46 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FROM_EXCESS_QP=0,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b7ef3fa5e65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b89252e2c6; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:59:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1AD453800011F; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:59:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNAe-0008Ui-NH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNAe-0008UZ-9f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNAb-00053H-VH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1RDvNp9026609 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:57:24 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:57:23 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:53:54 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Thread-Index: Acq3FDGdW7Wq1nSXTjCZDAorZegk9AAoBsdU References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.134820 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355" Subject: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55582 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b89252b27cb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear group,=20 =20 It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 02:47 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, Andy Talbot wrote: > probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73k= Hz > the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely > Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. Andy, certanly AFTER filtering noise became gaussian. But matter of fact is that if noise is nongaussian then to get optimal reception one should make some nonlinear processing (limiting in simplest way) BEFORE narrow band filtering. After filtering when noise is gaussian limiting or someone else nonliniar processing has no sence. There is exact matematical theorem: if noise is gaussian then optimal signal processing is linear filtering (or correlator calculation in coherent case). > However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going= for > coherent signalling. IMHO coherent signaling improoves SNR by 3 dB. It does not depend of the fact if noise is gaussian or nongaussian. Anyway this (coherent signaling) is linear processing nonoptimal when noise is nongaussian. Interesting quation arises there. Is any optimal form of the signal if noise is nongaussian? I don't know answer. This is high science. But if noise is gaussian then form of the signal has no meaning. Only energy of the signal has meaning if noise is gaussian (with constant spectrum). If filter is optimal for specific signal of couse.=20 Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhgNAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHQAAAEFXOiBMRjogUmU6IDlrSHog bm9pc2UgbGV2ZWwAywgBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGwAOADUANgAGAH0BASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABsADgA5 ABcABgBiAQEJgAEAIQAAADBDMTU1RTE5MjBGOUYzNDk4NkNDQkQ4RThCOThDQUFEAG8HAQOQBgA4 EQAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ABuouUy0t8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI3MTM1NzIzWi0xMjA4AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAdAAAAUmU6IExGOiBSZTogOWtIeiBub2lzZSBsZXZlbAAAAABAAE4AgLR+z063ygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01U 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from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcqBo-0008Bm-6p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcqBn-0008Bd-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:23 +0000 Received: from smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcqBl-0004Mk-8d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:23 +0000 Received: (qmail 91163 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=jduhZndOpgK8gWX83mBDTgXz3YoZQCDs7CT8z5TmbtihXDQKhpTyZ41110LVVdSwd/YCT7GdWwh8OxS1pVT5VCuc+GBETXXRAcBORzZBSGcWam9IO60SV0+kN4TGkEh+cqVDbTKRVVtWWsHX/NJNuXYrwm12+UP3qMv5Kzout5o= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: hKYCHQ4VM1mjBFVygoMQTxV9qaKf1U9fTqBPhjgEarH0A0qKfL0xdi8QcOSaiANs8fXrusRo1s_PTh6PMyJlC1NJaobXAUvBqEFZIVL0kGt56__53LKsoQxkW79Eqb8Ax3xhAI1E3Kyd568RGqMPZo5D2zdREytX4G_suOWPbdgoFKm0PEy0C_XSARTtvXyrNGoT3HVtPEjAOS8Yup5Vr1tMwPPh785j4ZK3gcD9XFNgtoIufadhWOS4sGiLtsBqTXu5og-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <132E5B4C5BE74CB88E5411BF10DC90B6@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b6a1e064a8e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Stefan, LF Group, I shut the beacon down at 0102utc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b85388d27b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AA4EC38000127; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIGX-0005Pn-En for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIGX-0005Pe-3e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkIGV-0004RN-3Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OEUrTT046638 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:30:59 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00271 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:35:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:35:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:31:00 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b85388b640d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter, > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3.2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.147]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI041-eac24b7ff486df; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:41:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 313A138000096; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiqUY-0002Dm-6j for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiqUX-0002Dd-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:33 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiqUU-00087u-Jv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:33 +0000 Received: from mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.1]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1KEdELx015061; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:14 -0500 Received: from White (e179127105.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.127.105]) by mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id DA292E0000B2; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <68EFAA7E30A14EB2A10857D6E05CD822@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: "Peter Martinez" References: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:39:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55283 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29014b7ff40e629d X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB242.D7921060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55283 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40934b7ff4852359 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Chris, Laurence, LF, I have tried to look at the Alaska pulsegroups in more detail. On http= ://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LORANALASKA_5990.jpg (183 kB) the= re is a graphical "SSTV-type" plot of Laurence's complete wav, with 11= .10 kHz sampling and "line rate" set to 59.90 ms. The appended clip sh= ows the area of the first crossover. The four different GRI 5990 pulsegroups can be seen as a vertical set= of lines from top to bottom. GRI 5980 advances 100 us to the left in= each row, with the first two of eight pulses blinked on only for abou= t 10% of the time. I think the selective fading effect described by Chris can be understo= od by the varying delay during the pulsegroup overlap period. Whenever= the pulses coincide, they will add up coherently, depending on the ph= ase of the RF path and the phasecoding state. About five GRI periods= (0.3 s) later they will be separated 500us, with minimum 1 kHz and ma= ximum 2 kHz content, and no dependence on RF phase. Looking in detail at the first time of coincidence (yellow arrow), you= can see that alternating "knots" appear brighter and darker. This ind= icates that we are experiencing the superposition of an "A" and a "B"= type phasecoded pulsegroup, with the relative phases alternating for= subsequent pulses. The second coincidence near the end of the file ha= s equal phasecode states (A-A and B-B) in both rates, and all knots ar= e equally bright. This may also be contributing to the more pronounced= phasing sound on this one. Another interesting detail unrelated to the phasing is that some of th= e 5990 pulses from Shoal Cove appear to be missing. Plotting it agains= t its former other rate 7960 revealed that the alternate blanking sche= me (ie. omitting a pulse for one rate when one has to be transmitted= for the other at the same time) is still active, even though the actu= al transmittission for the second rate has been turned off on Feb 8th. Last not least there are many single pulses "floating around". These= are occuring approximately every 8.33 ms, most likely an artifact fro= m a 60 Hz switching power supply. Kind regards, MArkus From: Chris Trayner=20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very simil= ar rates, walking through one another in time. I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pul= se group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the= chittering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chi= t chit" and the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this abou= t 1/5 to 1/4 of the way through the recording. When they fit in each= others' gaps you hear "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: yo= u can hear this just before half way through the recording. The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and= lower audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way= through to nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and= bass. Presumably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz= spectrum, though the treble will be represented by both the parts jus= t above 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtle= r than that*. Maybe this is caused by frequency-selective fading, pres= umably what Lawrence described as the "musical sounds they made as sky= waves did their thing". Could someone more knowledgable than me comme= nt on that? * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see= only one half of the spectrum. For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Chris, Laurence, LF,
 
 
The four different GRI 5990 pulsegrou= ps can be seen=20 as a vertical set of lines from top to bottom. GRI 5980 advances= 100 us to=20 the left in each row, with the first two of eight pulses blinked on=20 only for about 10% of the time.
 
I think the selective fading effect= described by=20 Chris can be understood by the varying delay during the pulsegroup ove= rlap=20 period. Whenever the pulses coincide, they will add up coherently= ,=20 depending on the phase of the RF path and the phasecoding state. About= five GRI=20 periods (0.3 s) later they will be separated 500us, with&nbs= p;minimum=20 1 kHz and maximum 2 kHz content, and no dependence on RF phase.=
 
Looking in detail at the first= time of=20 coincidence (yellow arrow), you can see that alternating "knots" appea= r brighter=20 and darker. This indicates that we are experiencing the=20 superposition of an "A" and a "B" type phasecoded pulsegroup= , with the=20 relative phases alternating for subsequent pulses. The second coi= ncidence=20 near the end of the file has equal phasecode states (A-A and B-B)= in both=20 rates, and all knots are equally bright. This may also be contrib= uting=20 to the more pronounced phasing sound on this one.
 
Another interesting detail unrelated= to the phasing=20 is that some of the 5990 pulses from Shoal Cove appear to be miss= ing.=20 Plotting it against its former other rate 7960 revealed= that the=20 alternate blanking scheme (ie. omitting a pulse for one rate when = ;one has=20 to be transmitted for the other at the same time) is still active, eve= n though=20 the actual transmittission for the second rate has been turned of= f on Feb=20 8th.
 
Last not least there are many si= ngle pulses=20 "floating around". These are occuring approximately every 8.33=20 ms, most likely an artifact from a 60 Hz switching power=20 supply.
 
Kind regards,
MArkus
 

Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C
=
Dear Markus,=20 Lawrence and others,


Thanks for your interesting comments= on this=20 theme.

> The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of= these=20 very similar rates, walking through one another in time.

I thin= k I can=20 hear two effects which might be described as phasing.

One is du= e to the=20 different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse group rates) wh= ich Markus=20 describes. This appears a a change in the chittering sound. When the= groups=20 coincide you hear it as "chit   chit   chit" and= the=20 pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of th= e way=20 through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hear=20 "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just be= fore half=20 way through the recording.

The other effect is a change in the= relative=20 strengths of higher and lower audio frequencies. You can hear this fro= m about=20 4/5 of the way through to nearly the end, where the sound cycles betwe= en treble=20 and bass. Presumably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110= kHz=20 spectrum, though the treble will be represented by both the parts just= above=20 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than= that*.=20 Maybe this is caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what La= wrence=20 described as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thin= g". Could=20 someone more knowledgable than me comment on that?

* Unless Law= rence was=20 demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see only one half of the= =20 spectrum.


For those who have deleted the original message,= the=20 recording is at
> = http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav


73,
Chris=20 G4OKW

-----------------------
Dr Chris Trayner
School of= Electronic=20 & Electrical Engineering,
The University of Leeds,
Leeds LS2= 9JT,=20 United Kingdom
Tel: +44 113 34 32053
Fax: +44 113 34=20 32032


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1NczBb-0002Ya-0o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczBa-0002YR-Kh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:46 +0000 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczBX-0007ne-Tu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:46 +0000 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so146030fgg.10 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:43:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=OH0V/LM1AZOHFFa3Zbuhqd0jQEuokbeR1I2SyuUKTac=; b=Ci7f66kA6eABohkEVZNgUmKAVtyTVvlOLqGHJ4ogIt8ComXboBNHo8yi3DZAz6pr17 KGyB4Ld4mHUvPB2js5nAeYpxtoGoHLV4xhoXNOtGUvQwST0tjyV/aLYu2bHeGc4/ilCQ ORzQQGRfWAm/8Qcswg8M3DFVggpD2Gm0dC/Zo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Tur5yRcK2KM1HGbjOF6wBqUKB1UJ32e75QTmeXQREYUsddpExd4o25GmNf7o8VCjWo 1XL89esnp2H7ryLcSYjfU375XPzIbIJKy3HCn9h+OKv3zpgyVVJ0pUo6wHSGsanglvDv PDmoIGEG89nindJYsfhNH8e2A9BcgvHhGht8Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.185.76 with SMTP id b12mr108740hbh.53.1265280221708; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:43:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> From: Harry Woodhouse To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MISSING_SUBJECT=1.345 Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b6aa5315f27 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Friends, Unfortunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope to move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall). Best 73s Harry G3MFW --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Unfor= tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope to = move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licensed= since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensely e= njoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continu= e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was st= ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 units= , together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell= , Cornwall).
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Best 73s=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Harry G3MFW




--001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF074-5efd4b8753403c6; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:51:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 447DF38000097; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:51:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nks8p-00028h-FG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nks8o-00028Y-Va for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:30 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s9.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nks8m-0002CE-VT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:30 +0000 Received: from COL122-W32 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s9.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:48:10 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:48:10 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2010 04:48:10.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[E57616D0:01CAB69E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_" Subject: LF: LF_signature X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55522 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b87533e7d3f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_" --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! Whose is the nice signature, which I captured today early morning? :-) 73!=20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
Whose is the nice signature, which I captured today early mor= ning? :-)

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispam= ovou technologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat =3D --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_-- --_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100226_signature.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAD5AXoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcS40-00089b-P1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:21:44 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcS3y-0002sz-2C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:21:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o12NLcbX022884 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:21:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:21:39 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:19:04 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Thread-Index: AcqjYiOpBPlL//a+QNC9eA/Bg+vuKAA+/kWn References: <1f0624b91001310901s4b277bfdl34710411e4185839@mail.gmail.com> <1C05E50A54B4465193C903D46F3566E6@JimPC> <1f0624b91001311347v4db2dd59k65607d8b6240452c@mail.gmail.com> <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> <4B670AE2.7040600@freenet.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.2.230935 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F" Subject: AW: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94b68b3c33ff1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Wolf,=20 =20 Come back to LF! You can run the antenna on MF later, if you want ;-) Let'= s do it like 2004, 2mCW: 589, 2200mCW: 589 ;-) =20 73! Stefan/DK7FC (nw QTH Heidelberg) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Wolfgang B=FCscher Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:09 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Hi Markus and group, > The extra {10} may be just SpecLab's way of displaying a linefeed. Exactly that. Each received non-printing character is simply dumped as a decimal code in curly braces. The linefeed character (code 10) should be ignored if it follows a carriage return (code 13), but I didn't care about this too much when implementing the digimode terminal. 73, Wolf DL4YHF (still QRT on LF.. and waiting for a german MF allocation.= .) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBMRjogUmU6IDUwMCBr SHogQlBTSzA4AIkGAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAAATAAQAAwAAAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADAAAAFQAn AAMAJQEBCYABACEAAAA4NzdENUZDNDQyNjAzNTREOTMyRTMxRENBMjI1MDc4NAADBwEDkAYAAA8A ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCZm8AcXqTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDIyMzIxMzhaLTI4NwAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAFJlOiBMRjogUmU6IDUwMCBrSHogQlBTSzA4AABAAE4AAF1UX2GjygEeAFoAAQAAACMA AABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsf 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Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b688ffa1a9; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:50:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 32C45380002ED; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcPfe-0007NY-PE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcPfe-0007NP-E9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcPfc-00022n-PF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsgEAMceaEtZ8YDo/2dsb2JhbACNFAPMKIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,393,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282019494" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.128.232]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 20:48:06 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01caa448$ffca2980$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:47:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: PA0HTT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b688ff73fea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not too strong in QSO mode mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not= too strong in=20 QSO mode
 
mal/g3kev
------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.218]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB024-86964b82e00251; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A3B4E380000C4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeHD-000435-2U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeHC-00042w-IV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeH9-0004td-Sl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2032479bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:48:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=p0xDznLouiZEiznbuTJHb8wzxsuvq81d+16HlkKGsmM=; b=UFdGc3jLQW/jfOAuhrqj7oiwWlaLkAq80jVe5g/pDRtfKF8fb8eKkHFewnZ9C8xR2W pTbmunzERoxSOuKD3WlTIBeeeQypIMOtRnJiMN7ixBKNUdlrghk4WPqQjIBHXGs5WU7H PDYNhCnV5UFF4Dhork33jYG1DviQRe5LaT5BM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=L1pRkiyvb2zxULMICiA88ZpDkrb2486OW1z5PePuJj4Z+MEt185N18xs1B9QM8iXRh yFwxzhte7/eDO+tG4c5KsnmfnaTP0p3ddkBNtYZJVF3qqQ2aDmbdx9tCcDiod8jIP+bH WNzEcMfMWFde5Cr5LEGhBg7I+pKAfewWmv/94= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.207 with SMTP id u15mr101932bkd.187.1266868137772; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:48:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:48:57 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221148l19a80ffeg764ef3b1aa0a9243@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a906544707048035b97a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m278.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40da4b82e0005a88 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a906544707048035b97a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is a copy of *G0AKN's paper* summarising his experiments on my website. See < http://sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz/earthcomms.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1 > 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 > and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. An > article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of the > AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online for > G0AKN. > > Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes > used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved with a > 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. > > 73 > John Rabson > F5VLF > 58800 Cervon > France > JN17vg > > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a906544707048035b97a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a copy of G0AKN's paper summarising his experiments on= my website.

See <http://sites.goo= gle.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz/earthcomms.pdf?attredirects=3D0&d=3D1= >

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 17:51, John RABSON <john.rabson@numeo.fr> wrote:
If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as= 73 and 136 kHz. =A0G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more informati= on. =A0An article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 = =A0issue of the AMRAD newsletter. =A0More information may be found by sear= ching online for G0AKN.

Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. =A0The maximum range we have achieved= with a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres.

73
John Rabson
F5VLF
58800 Cervon
France
JN17vg








--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555a906544707048035b97a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.217]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b6fa0d23ba; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:27:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C0248380000F7; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeM8g-0007Zv-KN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeM8g-0007Zm-9T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeM8e-0006qz-E7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620E340069 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: XKO,YO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01CAA887.A26E9D50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 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1NlJvT-0006bf-4Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJvS-0006bW-5g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:34 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlJvP-00040Q-Jc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:34 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFC27B8047 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n3.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.13]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0516FF3863 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.13]) with mapi; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:24:24 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Thread-Index: Acq3kt36Atj9nJv0QUOc2lr864cDYwABCooW Message-ID: References: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com>,<377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecd4b88f44e2808 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Warren , Pete, when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur segme= nt (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the big tele= com "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would transmit the= re with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be able to get any= further than the other end of the town. It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town ;-= ) 73, Rik ON7YD ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: zaterdag 27 februari 2010 10:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz? Hi Warren and thanks Your comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynicism,= I like that .... hee hee! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler wrote: From: Warren Ziegler Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28 Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggested tha= t 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to= receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must= be considerably closer. You comment on politics reminds of the old joke: Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round= ! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT > wrote: Hi Warren Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one may not travel but at the moment th= ere is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come fro= m this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable= at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quic= k wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with= this continuous beat note running all the time. 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Warren= , Pete,
 
when back in the mid 90'= s the initial request for a longwave amateur segment (what later turned ou= t to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no= harm that amateurs would transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that= power one wouldn't be able to get any further than the other end of= the town.
It turned out a bit differ= ent, unless you see the world as one big town ;-)
 
73, Rik  ON7YD=
Van: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT= [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: zaterdag 27 februari 2010 10:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz?

Hi= Warren and thanks
 
Yo= ur comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynici= sm, I like that
..= .. hee hee!
 
73= es GL petefmt


--- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com>= wrote:

From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged in a bi= t of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but= not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it= must be considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics reminds of= the old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism?=
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other wa= y 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
               WD2XGJ 
               WD2XSH/23
               WE2XEB/2
               WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk&= gt; wrote:

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a long road that I for one&n= bsp;may not travel but at the moment there is enough enthusiasm locally to= try out a few ideas many have come from this debate on the LF reflector.= The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xg= j@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
              WD2XGJ
              WD2XSH/23
              WE2XEB/2
              WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received=
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as=
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths=
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<= br> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask=
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you= will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<= br> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br> would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice






--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC044-a9324b75a8a0179; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:14:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 827AB3800032B; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xP-0004q6-3M for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xO-0004pw-Cy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:38 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0xM-0004Yc-3h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:38 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212191314.KTLW10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:14 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0ww-0005hV-UT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:14 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsFtlk0PMdBTUjR4yddSbXeb0AaQAAF/nA In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=WilkBP5Pf4bzsgR1D2YA:9 a=kRCJG5bLNP_x5K9aXEYA:7 a=9s18pjNw2CPZ6e9PpXOHFpId98sA:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=GYlPk34C_0G73wAL:21 a=bHse69SDa9mtnTGP:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=LMNQ86G0mSXf08deKfMA:9 a=1h44D8GNWc9in-N4NpkA:7 a=XL6VdycblWZGT-qnxRuIhBxeAnoA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b75a89d6eac X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A bozo I will= be!!

 

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's descrip= tion in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you= need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will pl= ace the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to= know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" men= u.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Gu= ide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar= to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <= ;rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next= week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <= james.co= wburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on= the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to= Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.209]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF081-5efe4b7474dafe; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1941D3800043E; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgSS-0001n3-QG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgSS-0001mu-Dn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: from warsl404pip1.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.112] helo=email.aon.at) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfgSQ-0005E7-1J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: (qmail 7970 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from 93-82-0-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO [192.168.1.101]) ([93.82.0.237]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub97.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Feb 2010 21:20:10 -0000 From: Gerhard Hickl To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:20:10 +0100 Message-ID: <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b7474d0689a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan ! 850nm is visible too! It by far not that bright than "visible" light is, but nevertheless, still visible. 850nm is the typical wavelength used for MultiMode Fiber Connections. On a 50-62.5 Multimode-Fiber it usually can travel for up to one kilometer (850m is the nominal distance). The wavelength I am usually dealing with is 1310 or 1550nm (SDH and WDM equipment). So maybe you'll give the 850nm a try. I don't know if these components are cheaper than the 600nm but visibility is not the problem. Cheers OE3GHB Gerhard =20 =20 Am Donnerstag, den 11.02.2010, 20:25 +0100 schrieb Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer: > Hi Roelof,=20 > =20 > My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V= (6,58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward= current. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough,= so perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same curre= nt, say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see= the light coming into the shack... > =20 > The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there.=20 > =20 > 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, >=20 > Thank you all. > Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. > I am not that desperate yet. >=20 > These items are advertised as low cost.... >=20 > I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. > However these are also hard to find. >=20 > I will look into it a bit further. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF014-5ee54b8875921a8; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:29:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14E6C380000A7; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlBTm-0002jw-D5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlBTl-0002jn-I2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:25 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlBTj-0001Oi-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:25 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so126893qwa.16 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=R958FkPhsyHjlX26zROSOk194f4+DAFR1XReySJ2fKE=; b=hkeAUArWC/f7EDMvVHzzl1cM9GwrvrZKk+aN2orTi3GMI/zHD6s6unMOQFa8EEXtGz zwC4pEOhg3c7XmxJdHzAnX948yX2RrKMRpKFE0yIEIw8RjhCoegz8byoomNSFLZG01bt MB0n9B7SEb2tcy7sa4yB5ZFqFMTUPJ2aJnz8k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vp16xoOuG1MPRaWYcPAF6ZoG40daKqDzmIY3+k//b6bGi7ZzBGnuMMoBxhoWDaD+V3 ytDC94s+aG7XPXlkN2ieE32L0TUdoHj4vYeLZsaFfhPebmq65o8WVAa2v7IAGMQ2/gz5 ly6nsA8h31QNLMLzL0moq7F4XlvRZaMuIXYck= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.48.15 with SMTP id p15mr723004qaf.198.1267234100281; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:28:20 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m233.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b8875900d61 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must be considerably closer. You comment on politics reminds of the old joke: Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round ! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: > > Hi Warren >> >> Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any >> means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. >> Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a >> leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I >> am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local >> LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may >> be a long road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is >> enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this >> debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about >> 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the >> road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this >> continuous beat note running all the time. >> >> 73 es GL petefmt >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Warren Ziegler" >> > >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM >> To: >> > >> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below >> 9kHz? >> >> >>> Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not >>> extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for >>> nothing.... >>> >>> -- >>> 73 Warren K2ORS >>> WD2XGJ >>> WD2XSH/23 >>> WE2XEB/2 >>> WE2XGR/1 >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >>>> >>>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>>>> received >>>>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >>>>> >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>> >>>>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>>>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>>>> as >>>>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>>>> Act >>>>> 2006. [...] >>>>> >>>> >>>> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >>>> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >>>> continent >>>> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >>>> radio >>>> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >>>> strengths >>>> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection >>>> authority >>>> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >>>> usually >>>> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >>>> >>>> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >>>> ask >>>> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >>>> will >>>> need a license for that" clause. >>>> >>>> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >>>> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz >>>> (or >>>> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). >>>> you >>>> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >>>> >>>> VY 73 >>>> >>>> Jacek / SQ5BPF >>>> >>>> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > --00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete,

=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes I guess I engaged in= a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden= wall, but not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is= 10km for an amateur and that was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then= for a signal to be audible it must be considerably closer.
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You comment on politic= s reminds of the old joke:=A0
Q. =A0Do you know the difference= between capitalism and communism?
A. =A0In capitalism its dog= eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round !

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1=

=A0=A0

On Fri, Feb 26= , 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Warren
=A0
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New Presi= dent is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of= our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am no= t expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF= Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may= be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment there is= enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this= debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at ab= out 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during a quick wi= z up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with thi= s continuous beat note running all the time.
=A0
73 es GL petefmt

---------------= -----------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" &l= t;wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday= , February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or= Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden see= ms like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Thu= , Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn= wrote:

People may be interested in the rep= ly from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFCOM&#= 39;s view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs= indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Howe= ver in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into grou= nd dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field str= engths
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority
and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the gov= erment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will<= br>need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask th= em if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave trans= mission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br>would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

= Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually= very nice













--00c09ff794096501f604808aee45-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.89]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b747e09213; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:00:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 06E1A380001D9; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfh4T-00022J-Sv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfh4T-00022A-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f191.google.com ([209.85.216.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfh4Q-0005Ue-Pf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: by pxi29 with SMTP id 29so969576pxi.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kfiyihZDyJT6qRjYvCC7sCzs2FuNwJGuOi2KQ/sOr/Q=; b=w5B0VrxhfvoKqy2tfmTc5K4cNPGzpvtnC/0tMYs01vVgUrBbyd3MDLE5FirKgYOiKX 2JZU7valIflbbxflKJ+gHQZg81VFN4pa3BWgivKhdj08ziKucWKt4YOZlndsm7hkuTLH gA5ma/YtzAu29Am9rlgdcho/Fp4EJz31KcDrM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=Fn5aEefHG/bC5Y7B/GCCC+/LxXFbqL5u6kXmXRzssYK40IbiE8SyYZWQ6s5il/Ok1m bOVQcgTK7KEkF/TPRVLWVRgJAoUBj//LoEEiZ3Y9ftPJJWB4E9VJSRnipSM1OuXy/Dey jvoUTQcYI6U98aO8tlu8NUzAFoGgK7PW+78TI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.4 with SMTP id d4mr316111rva.117.1265925566823; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:26 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f477e934243098c3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002111359p36faa59bg16cfc48f02ef08dd@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m210.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60594b747e076d67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Jim, Thanks for my 1st 2 way WSPR. I must admit that I missed one of the change-overs & sent the wrong reply text, not a lot of time to think & do. UTC Date: 2010 Feb 11 --------------------- 202904 Transmitting: WSPR CQ G4WGT IO83 213400 17 0 0.1 6 0 M0BMU 213600 Transmitting: WSPR M0BMU S1 213800 14 7 0.2 -15 0 G4WGT R S4 214200 16 4 0.1 -15 0 G4WGT S4 214400 Transmitting: WSPR M0BMU R S6 214600 15 4 0.3 -15 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 214800 Transmitting: WSPR 73 DE G4WGT IO83 73, Gary - G4WGT --001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim,

Thanks for my 1st 2 way WSPR.

I must admit that I missed one of the change-overs & sent the= wrong reply text, not a lot of time to think & do.

UTC Date: 2010 Feb 11
---------------------
= 202904 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
213400 =A017 =A0 0 =A00.1 =A0= =A0 6 =A00 =A0<G4WGT> M0BMU =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
213600 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
213800 =A014 =A0 7 =A00.2 = =A0 -15 =A00 =A0G4WGT <M0BMU> R S4 =A0 =A0
214200 =A016 = =A0 4 =A00.1 =A0 -15 =A00 =A0G4WGT <M0BMU> S4 =A0 =A0 =A0
214400 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
214600 =A015 =A0 4 =A00.= 3 =A0 -15 =A00 =A073 DE M0BMU IO91 =A0 =A0 =A0
214800 =A0Transmi= tting: WSPR =A0 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0=A0


73, Gary - G4WGT
--001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.217]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b86c6e88c; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BB583800007A; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkinX-0006rO-0R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkinW-0006rF-KG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:54 +0000 Received: from smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.247]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkinU-0007lE-NR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 42596 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2010 18:50:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=XSu10rcnRd59mF8zgPzhK5mOS1NXrbdU8JY4gzSkxGVwa9Af6DHnFIdo22MYKMjcPu/mGiggwOZiAxGA04ZdX9sBxkytpDeUhnzb0Wxlsncu+iSfvsABptalUg8VAM/TnpbwXefK/hp4QDvCSuOfJBp5A3G2kGASpC0fjRA9H7c= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1267123847; bh=9qzFig0WAgiWoY1+TgeVsGjn15ZbClMqsTzgHKB5k3Q=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=mvBnQaagfXPPPlf+VdYN2A4h4tSe9fWISf0GITNQLFEDmimknEPEpCyLZsed6E/7gtxcMJl3rD3XRdyw1wcpGN0fI0MZyGJd9TZgazibXRRvMDvRAu+AA2Y/3BLn5zrTEDvjfEDN25RZqTj9SpwkN2ApQCzB0LwBxwB1jdDfAR4= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 18:50:46 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: UiZGa04VM1mFKudL6PL3SDDXH2.yl.Dy2577si8v8mHtPSTQlU_Fas.AE1Q74etVD5zb2JnufgeQJvlINQ5UdH8J4jiogZq9oC7qLXD5zYqOOMMjM_r0Hyv4ExCD5sVj.KZKZ7QCz0KyWv1lSbYirWa2f9UKshGffvMv4FNJocsFmDnLDv7E17L0EnR5xxAqtWiaGYveg6qM4LCpjGJBjSxZscOJD9crwwOrurFGVADPoJlqV6j.gOnWRajmybDFpf8.b0YkU1J9br68SnRkfw1CkAi7KyMx0lWBL4Jl X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d224.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d94b86c6e7397d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, As a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig gen into my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reverse" arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum Lab to monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise bandwidth). I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M" copy trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equivalent field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say what the SNR is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is probably not a million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field strength about 25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this evening is particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Talbot" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a > 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise > density > Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) > = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.129]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA044-86644b6ab116271; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:35:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5C9023800007B; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NczyV-00030h-T5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczyV-00030Y-Dc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczyT-0008Jl-CJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from COL122-W46 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:34:09 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:34:09 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> References: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 11:34:09.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7926A20:01CAA58D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_" Subject: LF: Decca X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40814b6ab11454cc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Harry! If I lived in UK, then I would buy your two PA Decca immediatelly.=20 I hope, you will be able to continue with LF receiving from your new QTH!= =20 GL 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ******************************* > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0000 > From: hwoodhouse3@googlemail.com > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D001485f7bed= 028055c047ec402b0 >=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 >=20 > Dear Friends, >=20 > Unfortunately the health of my wife and myself is > deteriorating, and we hope to move house shortly where transmitting will= be > impossible. I am 80, licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not > complaining! I have immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google > every day, and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You= were > a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is > interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items, ple= ase > phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall). > Best 73s > Harry G3MFW >=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > Dear Friends,

=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Unfor=3D > tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope= to =3D > move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licen= sed=3D > since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensel= y e=3D > njoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can cont= inu=3D > e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was= st=3D > ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 un= its=3D > , together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Aust= ell=3D > , Cornwall).
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Best 73s >=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D > =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Harry G3MFW




>=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0-- >=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Harry!
If I lived in UK, then I would buy your two PA Decca= immediatelly.
I hope, you will be able to continue with LF receiving= from your new QTH!

GL 73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

***= ****************************

> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0= 000
> From: hwoodhouse3@googlemail.com
> To: rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org
> Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boun= dary=3D001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0
>
> --001485f7bed028055c0= 47ec402b0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=
> Dear Friends,
>
> Unfortunately th= e health of my wife and myself is
> deteriorating, and we hope to mo= ve house shortly where transmitting will be
> impossible. I am 80,= licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not
> complaining! I ha= ve immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google
> every day,= and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You were
>= a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is
= > interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items,= please
> phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall).
>= Best 73s
> Harry= G3MFW
>
> --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0
> Content-Typ= e: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quot= ed-printable
>
> Dear Friends,<br><br>=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Unf= or=3D
> tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating,= and we hope to =3D
> move house shortly where transmitting will be= impossible. I am 80, licensed=3D
> since 1958, with DXCC etc., so= I&#39;m not complaining! I have immensely e=3D
> njoyed reading= all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continu=3D
>= e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was= st=3D
> ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two= Decca 5501 units=3D
> , together with other LF items, please phone= me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell=3D
> , Cornwall).<br>
>= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D= A0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Best 73s<br=3D
> >=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA= 0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Harry= G3MFW<br><br><br><br><br>
>
>= --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0--
>

<= hr />Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispa= movou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE014-5ea54b866e9d327; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D36E6380000D2; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcvB-0003Vb-P8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcvB-0003VR-8M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkcv9-0004SP-1D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4484487bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=HZHDRrb4ETsdshtMEnRxWp6ZJvbPe8B027YkUzgQagg=; b=itHk9dG2UWFmDSY6zLGYJi/GML52C5jPPVsHUpKH5SF/ALWMBHF55xw+pQCWjPH57m 6OHl7Ve8FUsgvrNj8Rbpv2uTqfOKckaulUiRvuGwc7/nwrEiDMVbUibDeUchhrPT53wG X2F5Ix5ntWG6YfdOd2BgRIkbFG80tnoDg8G4o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=TCRUOVkRXJyT1Bq9akt97PbLxig8bS0sgBP5QhfYV97QFeCAFn3ADdw43ojAdNsIQX aLJIbvLiFycW2KsYhhQL5Lqj7DBW2zQTYMI8X9lm7zGCsMbquPjtlaUGgjLXk7faY9+1 NWiOjlBqg8rsfIHPgJ/3715Xu70ew3dNj9XX8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.10.3 with SMTP id n3mr677028bkn.81.1267101257222; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:17 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m246.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b866e9b3ed5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, but what is the gain / antenna factor of your Miniwhip? Measuing -115dBm means little in itself, you need to convert this to a calibrated V/m form. IF the miniwhip were *exactly 1m long* and positioned over a good groundplane, fed an *infinite input impedance*, zero input capacitance voltage follower amp with *unity voltage gain into 50 ohms*, then -115dBm would equate to 0.4uV/m in 24Hz, or .08uV/m/ SQRT Hz. If the value quoted recently of 150dB kTB is assumed, which is 25dB lower that my original calculation, it suggests a value in the region of 4uV / m / SQRT Hz may be more typical. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 12:02, Roelof Bakker wrote: > Hello Andy, > > I measured the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip. > Receiver: SPM-30, BW = 24 Hz, noise level = -115 dBm > > The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revealed a > noise level of -122 dBm. > PERSEUS has an input isolating transformer, which rolls off below 15 kHz, > hence the lower measured noise level. > > It does not look too bad to me, really. > > 73, > Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt > > --0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, but what is the gain / antenna factor of your Miniwhip?=A0
Measuing -115dBm=A0means little=A0in itself, you need to convert this= to a calibrated V/m form.
=A0
IF the miniwhip were exactly 1m long and positioned over a goo= d groundplane,=A0fed an infinite input impedance, zero input capaci= tance voltage follower amp with unity voltage gain into 50 ohms, th= en -115dBm would equate to 0.4uV/m in 24Hz,=A0 or=A0 .08uV/m/ SQRT=A0Hz.= =A0=A0=A0
=A0
If the value quoted recently of 150dB kTB=A0 is assumed, which is 25d= B=A0lower that=A0my original calculation, it=A0suggests a value =A0in the= region of=A0 4uV / m / SQRT Hz may be more typical.
On 25 February 2010 12:02, Roelof Bakker <= roelof@ndb.demon.nl> wrote:
Hello Andy,

I measured= the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip.
Receiver: SPM-30, BW = =3D 24 Hz, noise level =3D -115 dBm

The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revea= led a noise level of -122 dBm.
PERSEUS has an input isolating transform= er, which rolls off below 15 kHz, hence the lower measured noise level.
It does not look too bad to me, really.

73,
Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt


--0003255574d254ca0804806c0060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF083-5f004b6c6c0523e; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:05:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 87DBB380000B2; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTTQ-0006yU-1Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTTP-0006yK-Jb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:11 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTTN-0005fh-Pb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:11 +0000 Received: from COL122-W26 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:04:01 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:04:02 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2010 19:04:01.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAAA1970:01CAA695] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_" Subject: LF: PA3FNY X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54548 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b6c6c022201 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_" --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw nice signal of PA3FNY. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw nice signal of PA3FNY.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a= plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_-- --_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100205_PA3FNY.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAhAmkDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK 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08:39:55 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: khKbo3qswBAevJSEf.Soeh08VpP3pgtFENUUoUzoJw6opDkeTsHZWXMBHg-- X-YMail-OSG: IsZ.ZhAVM1mmI9.Ya3vRtHWxh3FbuW9usEvZC1w7iopavD95SWnfvMZNTAaWUz.EWl7BnJU99IutUCoCNQDOu_q9rq.2_TORsGHVeSDVaqfLCcJtV5yTHjl6.PLFeO7.PzE82M7.zUQkDkNFLsqgO82iSrt5SiX_vBA8SL172P5EmfOWZqBydFR6VuQge8Nu5iNcLp.CKZ0Pqh_lNLfnXuv9WNvtgxKB9u8vyjcNVcVKMg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> From: "Robert Bennett" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:39:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_GREEN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m277.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b8394976cbc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are considering WSPR, it may be worth looking also at a program= called Laserscatter which is a multitone FSK mode using very low audi= o tones (20-30Hz) . See www.k3pgp.org/lflaser.htm =20 73 Robert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:59 PM Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks= ? Wouldn't that be a nice tool to try >what's possible, for a first st= ep? Stefan, I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.= 5kHz with a bunch of capacitors. One ferrite antenna was used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active spe= aker of the main PC in the shack transmitting the WSPR audio signal. The second ferrite antenna served as RX antenna connected to the mic= input of my notebook, acting as receiver in the living room (a surpri= sed look of the XYL, but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour= ). Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of 15m. OK, it's just a very loose couple transformer. But it works fine and= based on the signal strength (through a couple of walls) there is mor= e in it than 15m. 73, Rik ON7YD ------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you are considering WSPR, it may be wort= h looking=20 also at a program called Laserscatter which is a=20 multitone FSK mode using very low audio tones (20-30Hz) . = See www.k3pgp.org= /lflaser.htm =20
 
73 Robert
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rik Strobbe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 20= 10 10:59=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz=

>But what about that= WSPR mode,=20 everyone was using before some weeks? Wouldn't that be a nice tool= to try=20 >what's possible, for a first step?
 
Stefan,
 
I just did a simple test:=
I took 2 old LW ferrite= antennas and=20 brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz with a bunch of capacitors.
One ferrite antenna was= used as TX=20 antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker of the main PC in the shack tr= ansmitting=20 the WSPR audio signal.
The second ferrite antenn= a served as RX=20 antenna connected to the mic input of my notebook, acting= as=20 receiver in the living room (a surprised look of the XYL, but= she is=20 meanwhile used to my strange behaviour).
Solid copy in WSPR, = over a=20 distance of 15m.
OK, it's just a very loos= e couple=20 transformer. But it works fine and based on the signal strength (thr= ough a=20 couple of walls) there is more in it than 15m.
 
73, Rik =20 ON7YD
------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-md06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD063-8b8a4b865f16364; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07B4238000106; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbtF-0002K6-R2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbtF-0002Jx-5o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbtD-0003e0-Iz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4443036bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:28:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=X8nvZXKh8twmfBwUwQYf58aGUduqfuKPm6tQL8z/eps=; b=ijAqy/tIXoYAqfafd1yJLVks+7NyJQg1LYAXxEJWNqEEme3zOFAJQwg5KE94uaFFNr ZrX6f+w9SqXyB5FTL/xRnuJAfa0xYzSq8r+7QQdLbmiAyppcL4j734cGum9QX78ywRw3 jKu4lODOzmjWWAoEYppj8cakq22mfTDxTk5h8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HCqQtrvqSpRIV/B83v8hx90pYAfngxr2Vlaowe5t6P+t8ZmRQ3c7wXYYw7ufGUTTUm I1nhHzK6edCZI56H+2ElJCfQBKJMR7YFfzxepYGrf8B8OCOjbREpe+Y+2DdsDXDff32U lT2+d+E/psyohv48dA0siYqTJWZKSiNALFAeE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.32.74 with SMTP id b10mr664694bkd.38.1267097292799; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:28:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d305.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b865f127cc8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I dunno.... Some 99p headphone 'dongles' from Ebay deserve that sort of treatment. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 11:16, Chris wrote: > You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wire into your sound card'. > Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* M0FMT > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:38 AM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Ken. > Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and > install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC > to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. > Using SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum > allowing it to be processed by others. > > This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. > > It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and > or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used. > > You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I > can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is getting > better I will be able to get out working on the antenna. > > Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth > electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas because > my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will dissipate > most of the power which means it be getting very very hot and probably fail > and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have been kicked > around on the is reflector and off list there may be something I can try. > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Thu, 25/2/10, Ken * wrote: > > > From: Ken > Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 > > Hi Jim. > I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if > that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could you > put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna > configurations and formulae. > > 73. > Ken > M0KHW IO91TV > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Dear LF Group, > > A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m > > long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up > > in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph > shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for > both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field > antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by > numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, > close > > to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas > was > > very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. > > At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the > home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - > this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases > > at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books > say, > > for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at > low > > frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually > cause > > resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a > turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. > > The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at > > 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable > > loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - > > in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of > > about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated > loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a > Q > > of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of > the antenna would definitely be useful... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I dunno....
Some 99p=A0headphone =A0'dongles' from Ebay=A0deserve that so= rt of=A0treatment.
=A0
On 25 February 2010 11:16, Chris <c.ashby435@btinternet= .com> wrote:
You should NEVER 'stick an antenn= a wire into your sound card'.
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
----- Original Message -----
From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010= 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79= kHz

Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket an= d install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application.= You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result in= real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.

This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/= s.
=A0
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/= s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
=A0
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercis= e I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is get= ting better I=A0will be able to get out working on the antenna.
=A0
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12= /13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about= 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be=A0getting very= very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractica= l!=A0Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector and off list= there may be something I can try.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken= <k= en.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
Su= bject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05
Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton ove= r the weekend if
that would help. I have been following this thread wit= h interest, could you
put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacit= or and other antenna
configurations and formulae.

73.
Ken
M0KHW=A0 =A0 IO91TV
<= br>-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14
T= o: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz

Dear LF Group,

A couple of yea= rs ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m
long inv-= L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up
in= the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph=
shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for=
both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-fi= eld
antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surround= ed by
numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, clo= se

to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both= antennas was

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At 10k= Hz, the open=A0 field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the
home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -=
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage inc= reases
at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The te= xt books say,

for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate= at low

frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will= eventually cause

resistance to start increasing - in the case of= the open field antenna, a
turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz.

The= 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at=
9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A su= itable
loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF= -
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H wit= h a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If= you tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with= a Q

of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading cap= acitance of
the antenna would definitely be useful...

Cheers,= Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




--000325555bf20881c704806b14d4-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-md04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD043-8b824b818ddc37e; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:47:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0F7D2380000BA; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHkz-0007C5-PI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHkz-0007Bw-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHkw-0004Xj-Vc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1LJkGxN014192 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:46:17 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:46:15 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:44:46 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: DCF77 QSL card Thread-Index: AcqzH3ijsurjM5xgRpCffiweLrjnjQADtnAC References: <744727.54518.qm@web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.21.193627 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A" Subject: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55329 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b818dda0a8b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congrats, Andy!! What is your next goal? DCF77 radiates 30kW EIRP if i am informed correctl= y... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR Gesendet: So 21.02.2010 18:47 An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: DCF77 QSL card Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the correct person to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as accurate. I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ 73 to all ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhATAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAEwAAAEFXOiBEQ0Y3NyBRU0wgY2Fy ZAD3BAEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAVABQALAAuAAAAZgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFQAUAC4ADwAAAEkBAQmA AQAhAAAANkExQzhFMEUxRTYzOUM0RDkyM0VDQjVCQjA2N0RBNDUAXAcBA5AGANAOAAA4AAAAAwA2 AAAAAABAADkA6vdlUi6zygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0g O3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjIxMTk0NjE1Wi05MTEAAAAeAEkAAQAAABMAAABM RjogRENGNzcgUVNMIGNhcmQAAEAATgAAXMbgHbPKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZf Z3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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MAILINMB023-a1914b7d078ff2; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:25:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8F9EA380000A3; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2cU-0001lf-7S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2cT-0001lW-SR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:25 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2cS-0006at-2L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:25 +0000 Received: from COL122-W54 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:24:15 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2010 09:24:15.0478 (UTC) FILETIME=[23B1F960:01CAB07C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_15aafcfd-a509-4e78-9ee0-dd5d1d79473c_" Subject: LF: XKO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55181 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d74b7d078c3402 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_15aafcfd-a509-4e78-9ee0-dd5d1d79473c_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_" --_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! In the enclosure, there is a capture of XKO last night. Lubo=B9, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
In the enclosure, there is a capture of XKO last night.
Lubo=B9, OK2BVG, JN88KS

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[81.152.103.216] by web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:43:07 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-674318801-1267263787=:23110" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m226.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b88e9877bbf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Warren and thanks=20 =A0 Your comments are well noted along with=A0the good healthy dose of cynicis= m, I like that .... hee hee! =A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler wrote: From: Warren Ziegler Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28 Hi Pete,=20 =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I= suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to= receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must= be considerably closer. =A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:=A0 Q. =A0Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. =A0In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round= ! --=A0 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1 =A0=A0 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: Hi Warren =A0 Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment= there is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come= from this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite read= able at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time. =A0 73 es GL petefmt=20 -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wr= ote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice =20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Warren and thanks
 
Yo= ur comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynici= sm, I like that
..= .. hee hee!
&n= bsp;
73= es GL petefmt


--- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.co= m> wrote:

From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com><= BR>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Saturday, 27 February,= 2010, 1:28

Hi Pete,=20

          Yes I guess I engaged in a bi= t of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but= not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it= must be considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics reminds of= the old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism?=
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other wa= y 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
          &nb= sp;    WD2XGJ 
           =    WD2XSH/23
             = ;  WE2XEB/2
               = ;WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President= is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of our= book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am not expect= ing DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF Amateur= community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a lon= g road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is enoug= h enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this debat= e on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/= 2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz= up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this= continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt=20

--------------------------------------------------
= From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com<= /A>>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2= ORS
              WD2XGJ
 =             WD2XSH/23
    &nbs= p;         WE2XEB/2
        &nb= sp;     WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jac= ek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.o= rg> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapth= orn wrote:

People may be interested in the= reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFC= OM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Re= gs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Ho= wever in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequ= ency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vl= f spectrum,
they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without= any license from the radio
authorities. the only regulation they need= regards maximum field strengths
(and this is usually the realm of some= environmental protection authority
and not the radio authority). the= operating frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)
sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not= to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will
ne= ed a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it= is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission= from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9= kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entir= ely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the= answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice

=











=20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB023-a1914b69c9943e4; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:08:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C42F38011656; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:35:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nck2x-0005T7-4H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nck2w-0005Sy-Pc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:50 +0000 Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nck2u-0001tF-Kd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:50 +0000 Received: from omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.72]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dQpG1d0081ZXKqc51WZhmd; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:41 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dWad1d00D2DDHkk3hWadUE; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:34:38 +0000 Message-ID: <00af01caa4ff$2df028d0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b69c1e71058 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Albert Will keep an ear open for your 15 wmp cw. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Hello Jay and others, > > I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at > 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. > I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, > where useful. > > 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM > Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.223]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB061-a6fc4b892f5d3a9; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:42:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D716538000349; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNr8-0000ZA-CZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNr8-0000Z1-1o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from mout1.freenet.de ([195.4.92.91]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNr6-0005IN-Ts for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.26] (helo=16.mx.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NlNr4-0005p9-Q3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:18 +0100 Received: from blfd-4db0f2d4.pool.mediaways.net ([77.176.242.212]:2673 helo=[192.168.178.21]) by 16.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #2) id 1NlNr4-0005oJ-Bt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:18 +0100 Message-ID: <4B892F0B.9040604@freenet.de> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:15 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Wolfgang_B=FCscher?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40df4b892f5b25b4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Stefan, Thanks for the proposals, and the boost of activity. I have passed on a=20 few notes to the yahoo VLF group, so if you have more details about the=20 kite antenna experiments (or even a schedule) please let us know. RX equipment (SDR-IQ and Perseus, plus various active antennas) already=20 geared up here; and even the 'quiet RX location' (DF0WD / DK4U) is=20 accessable by car again, since the snow disappeared. It may be a bit=20 optimistic to expect reception here in JO42FD, but who knows... Cheers, Wolf . Stefan Sch=E4fer schrieb: > Dear group,=20 > =20 > It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b66b2b822b; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:53:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9507E38000121; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 05:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbtsa-0001hE-8S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NbtsZ-0001h5-TB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NbtsW-0005ww-Rv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX500M6XSTL4U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:51:22 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:51:14 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <2FDF8670A8F84B64B9432C2C4F0D1966@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 01-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b66b2b672ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w)" --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Nice capture VX9MRC 50777khz, Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 01-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Nice capture VX9MRC 50777khz,
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 01-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w)-- --Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 01-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 01-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABIAzIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBgcI/8QAGAEAAwEB AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfkjMx99acbnRaXMz252eKLGzMcx2uZo ThqOcK1w0wKugqqjNrUju9ucZlpEFMs2mnRpRpJjt2QFuW2ospaWnBV2p4ytEFXRXW5QjmpB uJfpx06cp6rKCiU787+Xlq8CbvnmdUyQtUzRqIGE3qwuWiduK7luYimQBo5zNQq2qiW3I6Gd B66iJBWcbnOQlWWItb1uWLKDe3ns1e/CzPkyfma5ElGk9OvEVL0ZUdDFqyOpUusnfpn81fds q9RfFXyr0EGM/LCGB1G7O3K6vfzmMt2W3LBaNMCoEm6cwzfRRnHRjRPiMzgJuoITLVRssG1n 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhOXj-0005Z4-4E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:51 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhOXg-0001eg-N7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:51 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so3296842bwz.29 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:36:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oIsVgyEoSRlj1W4HwC5Y/EHku4XgkSdrAvTArJ+NOWk=; b=YPQNcrcBTSZSCZZ2cgeZRbysQmeeOEfL8CVs2Ac4LZP5FMchIuzHHZAJv6bHLVbveB GGZi/eblaOSrYK2WLyVU+XlRrPunI6z0aFgiPxSCri14r/jQG1M1iQR2M3a4WIHIyNx/ J68FQkU9zjA6IxO+I42Beui67bRhsXcpjAMoU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=MwHpMf04KaA3c4exVhvASgJ0h1TbE9Q+Z3CqTKMLLAQPrgQmFND7zMCFgxRfTFWY53 +5aeqsjUr5P6M74bZNOx9UJIoWjIr2Cg7OrnQ9uJZuQrNFQ1zkghIqsKPVnkphPENLlC lEHSYLOaQPHfvyBNVPhlAvSoOa5YQhKTIW/cI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.152 with SMTP id g24mr4017860bkw.205.1266331001578; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:36:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:41 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002160636l75a94554p6f0696e153790f56@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500 more Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d308.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b7aade369b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Interesting thought Mal. I wonder how OFCOM would react to a request for a larger UK allocation? I wonder how many 500kHz NoVs have been allocated and how many people are active. 73s Roger G3XBM On 16 February 2010 12:37, mal hamilton wrote: > With the recent influx of PA stations, new ones appearing every day, > it might be the time to request a larger 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough > for QSO purposes, also a reduction in unattended BEACON acty would be > useful to avoid qrm. > When acty increases and more countries permit 500 operations there will not > be enough space. > Receiver selectivity also needs to be checked, the old TRF sets will have > to go. > 73 de mal/g3kev > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting thought Mal.

I wonder how OFCOM would react to a reque= st for a larger UK allocation? I wonder how many 500kHz NoVs have been all= ocated and how many people are active.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 16 February 2010 12:37, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktal= k.net> wrote:
=A0=A0=A0With the recent influx of PA= =20 stations, new ones appearing every day, it might be the time to request a= larger=20 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in=20 unattended =A0BEACON=A0acty would be useful to avoid qrm.
When acty increases and more countrie= s permit 500=20 operations there will not be enough space.
Receiver selectivity also needs to be= checked, the=20 old TRF sets will have to go.
73 de mal/g3kev
=A0
=A0



--

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http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.207]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB101-85fc4b8402a7290; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDD77380002E1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxdi-0001zd-7N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxdh-0001zU-IV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:37 +0000 Received: from web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxdh-00056a-3d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 57980 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266942569; bh=ePOKNteRBhkf8tutbJVyO3oAk/2XkOpVepGilZiXm4w=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=V0ANNrK7tvg4FUFr3qMnidYVIv4no4rgSoP2qD12WMaQBjspMn/c3mBqHdGemAqvroVlj9s06IsCoVbgmceYV92nN92ozLW2Vwgq0Ye9IPiDgtL+forfXX/sno26OSaCZpEdUmKISA3MP2XN9BYx9rPpi98/4DSkrXXu0TA1QbI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VqxOrFZ4YxcnYqVAlN8TTpyRFosTr6HncaK6z8YassRQzM24NskkaqT+p54bQRqWP3ye8e2sjzdlMmKaqPZXh0KEZkxr4U4N41O5GdnG3+gEbFmdMHp9nefM83bfyeC9xTDz+ohc4siA63yMJAQGRTKtjalMMQ/TUNC0gHjOm4I=; Message-ID: <901121.57930.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pOtFEHsVM1lPF9_cH20nqQaOXhh23TWwUSI5F8DRFyVf6Fl2s9dWzMrRBUuciXd9LvOYR6vPO6_qtHqHeBsy03PsVuWSnEMBt61x8ff_a0KyMzbX.tpFOiMv.6rFBrt9uG6G0ey0plXJZeXGkKeLka8vRdjxE8jGaurnotuGjT4J3fDWdBeaEtMwZPOQK0tgP0QUlQWyAsmV.5YhHxyFhszA9ILfO3ZcfjumT9PxcCCF7WBejldR4hpRu2kVx3A6rqB5MnhtwLoYd15G Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <029701cab49c$719d1be0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: RE: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d227.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b8402a45c31 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not quite to the "Death " Jim but untill they start twisting my wrist.....= .:-))) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Tue, 23/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: LF: RE: DATA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:25 Hi Mal =C2=A0 See annotations below for my comments and observations. =C2=A0 Thanks for CW QSO on Sunday too With best regards =C2=A0 Jim =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net =C2=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 14:50 To: rsgb Subject: LF: DATA=20 =C2=A0 Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Yes indeed.=C2=A0 I worked some good Dx last week during= half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again =C2=A0 Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. Lots of strong= US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. = =C2=A0G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO= but its busy =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions= but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think AMTOR= , Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really= routine QSO modes in general but more service modes. =C2=A0RTTY remains= popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine. =C2=A0(Only= my opinion) =C2=A0 Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty= wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are= still going strong.=C2=A0 I see that there are still many users of all mo= des including AM on topband,=C2=A0 We have a thriving top band AM net in= Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Some will argue that cw and rtty are data. =C2=A0They are or at least RTTY= is =C2=A0 =C2=A0but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, pac= ket and all the JT, wspr etc, =C2=A0=C2=A0Hardly fly by night Mal, if you= visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to= 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly= fly by night. =C2=A0JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its= been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500. =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.=C2=A0 Pro= bably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday aft= er all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of differenc= e between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! =C2= =A0Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio! =C2=A0 Also as you know with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can=E2=80=99t he= ar =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. Obviously?=C2= =A0 To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ.=C2=A0= There=E2=80=99s more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up.=C2=A0= Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances= (me included and I=E2=80=99m a QRP newbie!). =C2=A0If one was to look at= the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my gues= s that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc.=20 =C2=A0 It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, Most of the MF ops I= know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be ref= erring to me in which case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!= =C2=A0J =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! =C2=A0They said that about T/A on 73KHz,= walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinn= ing jenny! =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Mal, put that clog down or you=E2=80=99ll get= transported to the colonies =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out.=C2=A0I hav= e a suitable RX and antenna.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I for one am looking into it, and= I indeed have the appliances for Rx. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Your observations ?=C2=A0 there you have them.=C2=A0=C2=A0 None of which= are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, =E2=80=9C I= disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your= right to say it=E2=80=9D (or at least words to that effect!) =C2=A0 de G3KEV=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 73s de G7NKS (Jim) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not quite to the "Death " Jim but untill th= ey start twisting my wrist......:-)))

73 es GL petefmt

---= On Tue, 23/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>= wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: LF: RE: DATA
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Dat= e: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:25

Hi Mal=

 =

See annotations belo= w for my comments and observations.

 =

Thanks for CW QSO on= Sunday too

With best regards

=  

Jim

=  

=  

Dr. James Cowburn

E <= /FONT>james.cowburn@virgin.net

=  

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 23= February 2010 14:50
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: DAT= A

 

Generally band condx vy good at present from LF= to HF as far as 24 Mcs. &n= bsp;  Yes indeed.  I worked some good Dx last week during= half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again

 =

Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong= USA stns. Lots of strong= US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. &n= bsp;G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO bu= t its busy

 =

 =

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor= and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.<= FONT color=3Dnavy>   I think AMTOR,= Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really= routine QSO modes in general but more service modes.  RTTY remains= popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine.  (Only= my opinion)

 =

Observations indicate that data mode acty does= not last long, the novelty wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SS= B and RTTY are still going strong.  I see that there are still many users of all modes including= AM on topband,  We have a thriving top band AM net in Bedfordshire= even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.    =

 =

 =

Some will argue that cw and rtty are data.  They are or at least RTT= Y is

 =

 but I am referring to the fly by night da= ta modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,   Hardly fly by night Mal, if you= visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to= 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly= fly by night.  JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its= been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500.   

 =

 =

tuning across the bands today I did not hear an= y of these modes.  Pro= bably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday aft= er all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of differenc= e between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! &nbs= p;Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio!

 =

Also as you know wit= h JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can=E2=80=99t hear =

 =

Obviously the majority of ham operators are not= interested. Obviously?&nbs= p; To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ. = There=E2=80=99s more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up. = Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances= (me included and I=E2=80=99m a QRP newbie!).  If one was to look at= the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my gues= s that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc.

 =

It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Opera= tor, Most of the MF ops I= know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be ref= erring to me in which case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!=  J

 =

 =

and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!  They said that about T/A on 73KHz,= walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinn= ing jenny!    Mal, put that clog down or you=E2=80=99ll get= transported to the colonies

 =

 =

If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I= will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.   I for one am looking into it, an= d I indeed have the appliances for Rx.  <= /DIV>

 =

 =

 =

Your observations ?  there you have them.   None of which= are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, =E2=80=9C I= disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your= right to say it=E2=80=9D (or at least words to that effect!)

 

de G3KEV 

 =

73s de G7NKS (Jim)

 

 


=20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b7a0df114e; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:16:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23AC83800021C; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhDt3-0004LQ-GO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhDt3-0004LH-0c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:09 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhDt1-0005lg-1Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:08 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W4 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:13:56 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:13:55 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2010 03:13:56.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[135C56E0:01CAAEB6] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_" Subject: LF: Electrical power meters interference? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b7a0df00f2e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Im suffering from ac wiring in house power load variable pulsing wideband= car ignition type noise from 100-200kHz and Im pretty sure its coming fr= om a electrical mechanical single phase 120/240 VAC with an EMR modules el= ectrical power meter (900 MHz or so read meter data) - The model is the AB= 1R from ABB, thou marketed and sold under license by many here in the US.= Its inducing these v/m pulses but seems amplitude versus load variable -= I cant see any change in the pulse shape per se and the NB on the R75 doe= s take it out to some effect. Anyone had a similar issue before I take it= to the powers that be...I note there is a PLT model and hoping (as my ele= c compnay says its read at 950... =20 I note the specs says its bomb proof the other way from 100khz up so maybe= Ive got a duff'un.... =20 Laurence KL1X Wasilla =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Im suffering from ac wiring in house power load variable pulsing wideband= car ignition type noise from 100-200kHz  and Im pretty sure its comi= ng from a electrical mechanical single phase 120/240 VAC with an EMR modul= es electrical power meter (900 MHz or so read meter data) - The model is= the AB1R from ABB, thou marketed and sold under license by many here in= the US. Its inducing these v/m pulses but seems amplitude versus load var= iable - I cant see any change in the pulse shape per se and the NB on the= R75 does take it out to some effect. Anyone had a similar issue before I= take it to the powers that be...I note there is a PLT model and hoping (a= s my elec compnay says its read at 950...
 
I note the specs says its bomb proof the other way from 100khz up so maybe= Ive got a duff'un....
 
Laurence KL1X Wasilla

Hotmail: Free,= trusted and rich email service. Get it now. =3D --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC064-a9764b743d17217; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:23:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 278DA380000FD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfckJ-0000dn-OE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfckJ-0000de-Bn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: from smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfckH-0003hD-BL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 23690 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 17:22:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=Dd386IXnkn0DRRlFHgVffAoco8wPt1y66UrnTkc7MergHxp3VqEuhRoykoyfvg5z5x/Q1wLWPtw71AAq4A51uHJee2NPfsWsY2KgRaYPhcEG5+NX/vhoHmlrDpnO/GkMLCCSwv47/OVldOH216XL1IFrv0ASQAk1r8Mm/l54ghM= ; Received: from unknown (HELO DennisPC) (dennis.easterling@86.154.67.245 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 17:22:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: H_MJu2qswBDkdHeCAZfwexko6VNOiMP5URzYEvz3WrE5v1grQm6fnvJecjM9 X-YMail-OSG: DKbonYEVM1mhl.x_2kAT0GgJCDoBWgN5lLqsQPDtL0C3zqIy.yb7ekP7bXxVdBbN0OUvvY_UVQ4K3q2zf4gsONVaC_0Ih7WRSm1nYzSRdATrYcvtoXYa7_oPoGeZ7LJcKnQmHLQxUuKuWC8gi6XjzQWd86oNkilSk0dS27cQMyT.6UhWWac4qmgoV.q0YrS9OaCxjquMdfSYxVZ4C2UmvIqdTsZz0OfPYs9IsZbPkVk- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> From: "DENNIS EASTERLING" To: Cc: "Peter M0FMT" References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b743d1603ab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Dominic Congrats. on getting your NOV for 600m. I understand that you have been receiving OK, if so you are halfway there as the sigs are so weak compared with noise. I use various loops and a PA0RDT mini-whip for receiving. The latter seems to be the best all round solution for me. My TX antenna is a 'T' type 10m vertical (though zig-zags a bit before entering the shack) with a 19.5m top (longest I can get in my garden). Using a GW3EUP tx running just over 20w, I can qso Finbar in Derry Ireland, and have been reported by a German listener in Cuxhaven. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Baines" To: "rsgb lf group" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM Subject: LF: New NoV > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi05.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.163]) by air-dc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC073-86534b6f2cea30; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:13:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07A353800018F; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEQb-000557-Md for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEQb-00054y-7K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEQa-0004Bp-BR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207211217.EKGO10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:12:17 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEQS-00032N-JA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:16 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:12:14 -0000 Message-ID: <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOJCIY7CqvhitRJGEjQ/lO3UtCQAAYaSw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=9h1oTapCOFi4V8hbF4UA:9 a=-t_hQhnN4edjbtOWauAA:7 a=4nE5vRYeBBnMIZmuDmOcuaNNhacA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=ofdOR0lsp1mH5ZkT:21 a=DfME3qigyaikbomG:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vwiN2YWM253eC6NsM2AA:9 a=FBr99woiLJvSfguLakoA:7 a=s8-yE-PuRvEDAjL5cuRKC8xyjsEA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecd4b6f2ce87072 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I'll stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 20:59 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. 73, Gary - G3WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, I’ll= stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may= be improving

 

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 20:59
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a ver= y weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the sign= al.

 

73, Gary - G3W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld= .com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0
202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *
202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

 

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.142]) by air-md03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD033-8b7e4b7077131dc; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:41:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EB9E53800034A; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeaPG-0001JF-3A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeaPF-0001J6-HO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:29 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeaPE-00046p-77 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:29 +0000 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o18KeKX0014099 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:40:20 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.d5c.5be74f04 (43906) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229229148.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.229.148]) by cia-dc07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC073-ab824b7076a210c; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:40:05 -0500 Message-ID: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:39:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608e4b7077115857 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both= ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shuttin= g down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probab= ly because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be= singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good tra= ces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it look= s like the=20 Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains = ;(5930=20 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Caribo= u and=20 Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with=20 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.201]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b8401ec28a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:27:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F0F3538000055; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:27:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxaP-0001vB-4I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxaO-0001v2-PQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxaL-00053T-N4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1NGQ4Ff022380 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:26:05 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00245 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:30:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:30:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <792299.21067.qm@web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:26:06 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94b8401e278c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > Nice comment from Alex on near-field....long time since we heard from > you last Alex or maybe I dont read the group enough. Unfortunely i have very few time for ham radio. But i read this group regulary. Usualy i don't write here now. But about VLF i wonder to point out that for near field antenna voltage is more worth then power. Current is too small... Also it is funny that in such a condition signal don't depend on frequency at all! See the formula. But certanly the lower freq the more noise from power lines (50 Hz) in RX point. All of this is obviously in framework of electrostatics. But it is absolutely unusual for radio. Hi. Seems it is a good task for a student to analyse such a problem. Practicaly it is good idea to use high voltage ferrite transformer from old TV set to get high voltage on TX antenna. Make few turns additionaly as primary wireing is not a problem, big secondary wireing is ready in such a transformer. Few km seems to be real. But it is too dificult radiate vlf for large distance in ham conditions. One need real radiation (not 'electrostatic' field) for this. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b6f3315287; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:39:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1D75638000273; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEpx-0005oX-8M for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEpw-0005oO-PC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:36 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEpt-0004Ve-JS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:36 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4707501pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:38:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=chcqRtsgvRi0ZudRGt09yKak514n7UYa1JIxb9KNCZs=; b=Z7Ai1Hfp77GSl4iOpImQ7p4MZ7r69uTCkkuGw/TQu2qdqKRjBVJgjYbr4+vl+RMIEb IA2Njzs/LjMm9/F7pxtbd9XQ8rtQTLKEC8uCm3vZjAjQaQOumxrNlmzDdTCPApm/Rpa3 Ng9mhmTHmvBqyi+j+Z2bfKqBTGN//tdNOL6aI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ll6gxMEDOvtPEAqLEOVcp4Kpr4exDqwIaZprQXN+wgjsq+JcvAo/GC3qJabFFUk++e iwEraWxDOjcIGn7S+svVG8qucBWBfxJIb/y1sM7q/6sQhDX1FEeUuJSEO/qoyXol2F+Z II/m535nX4Ddmap6S2PYijNRnF6tgQ67xVT/o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.88.13 with SMTP id q13mr3939265rvl.45.1265578706010; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:38:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:38:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cd258e21d833293a Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071338m54bc9e3cqb699f928dcee280e@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b6f33136bcf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Thanks for staying on, it paid off with full 2 way & confirmation. OK, you can go WSPRing now. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:12, James Cowburn wrote: > Ok, Il stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you > are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving > > > > > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 20:59 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfa= ll > but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. > > > > 73, Gary - G3WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for staying on, it paid off with full 2 way= & confirmation.

OK, you can go WSPRing now.<= /div>

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 21:12, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wr= ote:

Ok, I=92ll stick= at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very wea= k trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal.<= /span>

=A0

73, Gary - G3WGT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@bt= openworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF= Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

=A0


--000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE024-5ea94b8308ca16; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:44:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2FC5A380000F1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njh03-0005u4-BL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njh02-0005tn-7T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:34 +0000 Received: from web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njh01-0006G3-W6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 41011 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:43:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266878608; bh=FZ8k6Q8mFjhjFHnprbwlSxOst6HCKdGdWjfr7UOww9w=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QxZJw1bVQEMXfWBJ3bNufYQdMlx7c9kAQ6bKvqfwCbLpClFvTZNEqzZxHlwxZ0OEe0NPDU+2p2JHWDNxUIhWKBt2K56vIl+9VcBdYa865f17dOMVJm+uBKl12eAQwChK9OYxcD63KvCGGIpVhyYyB4f10gu/vopVMH7czQQDpKU= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eKORxiY8zywFdEAv6DuOeTrDS2AkwUdv/YHzDVxzcgLGb/8hTXovOoOZTDsmEyV/xqF/WiSDnD1OvrEdzWFjG/3KBAMEjfuSbDfBHC+/87XR+jXmy+I9HEYCa0ay5au/cT9r5Wv3NRV0lnYnv2CqNuQ+GXXMXJYwd1I+XeNykUc=; Message-ID: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: eNj1OyMVM1nQjY9zJ.RiAosBDQOdsYVZHsvD5CpOq1QjMfGL4pJmTWNo2y8PgYJEQejqFzG0YIShlSAbQf43qEEmGXj0sEc_8uly5m6Sr4Nc3f3xMYaL9eQGSH.d8M2pcuGSygazoCDflCSO3CTpG2L.LRfq85tT7dthQzzM1piu2uY8_GH.AX5BWqOcksRgdrdcLxagpw94WvkkkuEgj65JsFmPqKue_sbypDVX0thkkFN7WBZFeI8F4raIerAQgGX0uUZqaypNbO4VFd_uvtW6 Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:43:28 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:43:28 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m242.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b8308c7288d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep Rik =A0 So how do=A0I load it? =A0 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =A0 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =A0 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =A0 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=A0is= a=A0lot of pontificating on this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I= am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help= , ideas-wise.=A0 If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels above=A0there are=A0LF sta= tions who may cooperate in doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away= possibly G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 =A0 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length,=A0in the conventional way is not the answer. =A0 So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, =A0 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. =A0 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T =A0 Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group =A0 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it wo= uld act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before meltin= g.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watt= s of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB= designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=  is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this sub= ject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenn= a and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels above the= re are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7= NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction= of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 
<= /DIV>
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe <Ri= k.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven= .be>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 February, 20= 10, 21:24

Pete,
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a= resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen't get= hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" = ; on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10,= James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: owne= r-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.<= BR>
I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz,= let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
      &nbs= p;         WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/= 23
                WE2XEB/2
=                 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>= Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to<= BR>contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rem= ember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by Intern= ational Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays= , and no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be dif= ferent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer=
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <Stefan= .Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79= kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna with= out the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>= > you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, somet= hing arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if= you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden= , say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a<= BR>>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>&g= t; that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will= still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>&g= t; same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> mak= e some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be= much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>>= And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the=
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03,= schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency,= widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>>= probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to ho= w these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers= from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I belie= ve) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) -= see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't= expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) av= ailable
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to=
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous= power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>= ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/= 2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>> &nb= sp; Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That soun= ds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs=
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
&g= t;> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>= ;> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>&g= t; in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF= bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mou= nted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from= 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>>= matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results,= of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
&= gt;> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&= gt;> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________= __________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
&g= t;>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>=     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconin= g on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamat= eur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz= is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not beli= eve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>= > a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> lice= nce. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>><= BR>>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= ; bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _________________________________________= __________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000= ,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de= /go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= ;> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3x= bm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk<= /A>
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      = ;ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------= ----
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Um= weltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>&= gt; schaefer@iup.uni-heidel= berg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49)= (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
= >




=20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE072-5ebb4b8803503cb; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:22:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B015C38000093; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:22:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3sP-0007Bb-QE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3sP-0007BS-0F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl3sL-0007Qm-N7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:20 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so280828bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:21:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MO7VnfHd6/2pVO91IetBRzVJXcEXmTwrAEku2sHpues=; b=DmEanumGBanggh5om8P83h2FO5WABArW3Nnp3e5KO6iwbdm59L44Ib76OSIoYeXv/3 TCWuOdhOuOIZQBBcIy4gvb46WUGjo1jMHSR2P/m0OO5ev7WyZXxO89Qadauv7qTqqWNa 12ES3RFvqu/PexVACRzulBro8QhVLT04kkHs8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ADeOUdyUUH4GtpGiOsl/yKk4+JhRh3go0R77KNaTomL2Ab4R/70D5p8RbpW/6dUlUX gTZAVf+8XqQotWJ4ZlpFQWnZRl3srDqutUK7nAJ6zh5SI9NME9YaD6wJSX4fqdXm3xY3 lixIJhLXqTsUo7kDQIXhNLDOY5Q4sRqXzMa1M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.85 with SMTP id w21mr462597bks.174.1267204869765; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:21:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:09 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d284.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b88034e735c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 WSPR looks at the energy in 1.5Hz bins, or chunks, and effectively filters the signal to this bandwidth. If the noise impulses ar eof significantly shorter duration, they will be smeared outas well as reduced i magnitude and probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73kHz the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going for coherent signalling. The path should be very stable so you shoul dbe able to retian coherency for hours. Use GPS timing and at that frequency you can get an absolutely coherent local reference and timing, so try long duration PSK, with symbol timings based on ten second intervals, or minutes. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 17:07, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > *Two questions...* > > (1) *Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried deep > in impulsive noise like sferics?* It seems that most of the natural noise > at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Perhaps there > are certain modulation types that are well suited to get through for this > sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but would value the > views of people like Andy. > > (2) *Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonable that > they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiated, conducted > or inducted) which could be sources of interference?* We all appreciate > that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field signals can be a > significant interference source and over a considerable (local) distance at > these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be interference to > telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pipe tracing systems. > If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some leads for > investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > >> > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level >> > >> > Dear LF, >> > >> > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise >> background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using >> my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, >> calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would >> depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate >> averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I >> arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz >> (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). >> >> Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for >> industrial noise. >> >> > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to >> > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. >> >> Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical >> study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics >> noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory >> assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional >> filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one >> should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is >> very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my >> web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is >> very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 >> kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. >> But i don't test it. >> >> Regards, >> Alexander/RA9MB >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WSPR looks at the energy in 1.5Hz bins, or chunks, and effectively fi= lters the signal to this bandwidth.=A0=A0 If the noise impulses ar eof sig= nificantly shorter duration, they will be smeared outas well as reduced i= magnitude and probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian.=A0=A0=A0= =A0 Certainly, on 73kHz the impulsive Loran interference and natural spike= s appeared completely Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we us= ed there.=A0
=A0
However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by go= ing for coherent signalling.=A0The path=A0should be very stable so you sho= ul dbe able to retian coherency for hours.=A0Use GPS timing and at that fr= equency you can get an absolutely coherent local reference and timing, so= try long duration PSK, with symbol timings based on ten second intervals,= or minutes.
=A0
On 26 February 2010 17:07, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@= gmail.com> wrote:
Two questions...
(1) Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried de= ep in impulsive noise like sferics? It seems that most of the natural= noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Pe= rhaps there are certain modulation types that are well suited to get throu= gh for this sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but wo= uld value the views of people like Andy.

(2) Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonab= le that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiat= ed, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference? We= all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field sign= als can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (loca= l) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be= interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pi= pe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some= leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov= <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
> Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
>
> Dear LF,
>
> sometime back in 2000 I attempted to me= asure the daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html= ). I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective= height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assu= ming that it would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectro= gram with moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible im= pulsive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m refere= nced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo).

Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is ob= vious for
industrial noise.

> Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was= essential to
> maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception.

=
Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theore= tical
study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics
= noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theoryassumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional
filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one<= br>should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing= is
very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject= on my
web page www.qsl.ne= t/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is
very theoretica= l:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9
kHz. Such= a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me.
But i don't test it.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.= com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.= uk
= http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 = =A0ISWL G11088

--0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE072-5ebb4b6a941733f; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:32:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0259638000140; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncxyx-00020a-NX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncxyx-00020R-Bz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncxyt-0007D7-Ak for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXB005QF8VWQ1@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:26:20 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:26:16 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6a940e5dde X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw)" --Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 04-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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64GoDYbVprvt2eyMrKDQwstbt+B81FPE870LJF07OoKM6F/oPsxeEzzQ0FysYvkjUQ6Me1Av 11LIJRnd4jgCe0H2SxLIGNl7tgW5K54BqRaqYGXOC2BwKRiSxBVdBnIju4CErqEmihbnrXPF iapQBnnIQr1RrERbwrHTeeolFUHEPKtpi4Vqu0vfYI7lKR7e5vCa6liZZ4DzTrmeZTsaORiF fhB44dSVGHe+ZcVxLesYzT13FWUjJGlUs68RZXklpXRlbNXupZ1SDK/8UIDXZg/NxzJ9cV82 P5GfaFyE5MjTxNVC7maQPaRc/aGtNh7tP4H0a7btaustuXUa0IbNYfrUwiSoPYwYvOXZxXGo QHgrlX5igdWBrCc6wp9xG/7m8Jo1hmMP4NV3jquNVDe7uIFCoUMXN1oBoddMIvcbC2/mKl0c hrq5e2UGVbV1v5dR5AQ2UFP1FBcrAVV8QWDS8B96qZwOXNxi23AuM5UqkaISdmoP/kIzU9za CaqZHUYEylgV6jBTbuAoBrFjj6gFyOYFVly9SuRglUcdvmDSwJaKrWT5ZhKylKTPVr5mqK3F MQQ1gmX+Q2gD5V+49jy6S9/OiJoArUqGmQU7n244l4FqC53foiAtfDiWgLK2uPDPEKpud269 Qop9LXEs7c6LiAOzl6n2YBj3LQ25jesBVpdfUWmqspi5Sj7TY9yr5m0nOwI7YSOCrDaDg6A+ oyGXNQXCg5XX2Y2AdbaJztFNAOI0pV1rf6YXM3YlQYiQfYq6gIllg2epuYH8NTDs8QDTXxcb FTseCv5XqYgJHDYTTGckU4i8JMrI+YOsKoFx/wCwwnxW6XEb7Vfdy25bd8wLSkbytWZVHhqU 2N1Y1CVVqm+PiLU4OKqAWCgywrnk2fcooBcXuUNwFNp2OZfGGkaqftxGNVK11FYFKw3Z1/7K qpStZm6Sdsrqw0LqLgLl9Smm4UEzTuGRjsGrlh22y2gYNeJpIzdraMAbL+7hitrlvMarPxcV irtuLEEQd3YRjaVeWW1CW3AB6azZMq65ioKWHEFxDbdv3qVc1q8RmovYRFy28rKAvTMfCCX5 l5zcYC0NDpNWWIWYgvDAG7bgLZvKMoKEHhjF1zO3MUV9AGFCxX+xanApLIr3mbvuxjBCu13L xEVij4iZKr5ipl+4bfM0fkmn4OZzNT8mcobmpCcI6jHSG04Tb8H4NM4R/Hv+RujOIR0fkTmG mMOpwTSM6nMdIxnc0hxGMNThmr8RxOJxHf4P/j//2Q== --Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB054-a5bc4b8ad8b719d; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:57:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1FB8638000084; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlqBa-0001GE-D7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlqBa-0001G5-2o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: from web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.130]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlqBX-0001mm-W1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 64384 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2010 20:56:14 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267390574; bh=zjk5U+Ns/1qBvEngFHx0Ml2CuEMK8FBz/p7S+BEtjV8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IRYuBFLIO/O/VUIr3m8eRri14Xid+kW7P2J6bsMIfOcUPyS/rRltizCBIBdhqPz//1Z+IkXUlXy7AkZ3RtWk/ZumCsQVT2PZiJFzOWLOfjMlVkNnIBCaa1De7tdaePA+TFm/27zH1gt9ggziLoVlXPvDMgiFFod6mZB0LFsfWuk= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kTbdtn8Jqm5WQOM1Xtj8SS0ebhZTaC4YiUahfN5gaPay4G6IHX2W/paiQcLw6vvwjauhIk5I+Z+FLrqNieA+X+gwsJuzBQjBytikA+J9JvVFxx1K+OhVFNjquu61S53S43C8fdfRCmsdlip5J2K97SoRLNIS4PFQ9bE2/KRiGVc=; Message-ID: <17354.62992.qm@web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6YjJ_oAVM1nfFqh7iFZ18LiovheX9up02Buq2OH2vB5Z7vqj5irbGCa0yZpAQyn_ExZWJ8U3VbzsCyzetDl7u4iymRaHdIK_zKveJ95DWMyKYQI90urdJF1C9mCJtzMgNmkVmh1RSlgriO6qkYjAChRflJxMWIWP2yg5HwbKMKMBW40znyhWiZhGBxdjSpNzFrLEwfN1XXXYZrbz0JSCI436YN_xPQthxt0blEP_icE2jT8pTVbJmOOhvY5histOhpoIE5WRCT6sDQYHZA9A8Cxv5CseR765ztTYd1A8nd1OfkCtU.4QvWrV0.nnuYXdgv3ACGkz Received: from [213.122.31.143] by web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:13 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:13 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <082E380968FA412F86094FF6EA988B27@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m280.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b8ad8b67d48 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Yes Laurence KL1X modified the circuit for use from 10kHz. I think it need= s some of the coupling caps increased in value. Alan G3NYK --- On Sun, 28/2/10, Ken wrote: > From: Ken > Subject: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, 28 February, 2010, 20:17 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi > All.=20 >=20 > Has anyone had any > experience using the PA0RDT Mini > Whip on 9kHz?=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=20 >=20 > 73s=20 >=20 > Ken=20 >=20 > M0KHW >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE084-5ec14b6dc91d103; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:55:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 335CA38000068; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdqjB-000668-7d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdqjA-00065z-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:00 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndqj7-0006Vk-Un for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:00 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o16JrqSO014023 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:53:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:53:49 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ca4b6dc91c1a11 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, Yes, a metal mast will introduce unwanted reception of its own. I have seen a professional application where a common mode choke was used over the mast at the bottom to kill unwanted resonances of the mast, which could be easily coupled to the coax or antenna itself. Your idea of a optical link is interesting as it would decouple the whip completely. In the past I have carried out an experiment with a battery powered SPM-3 and a battery powered whip. When I raised the whole contraption, the signal level of a local NDB dropped! If this also will be the case with a battery powered whip, with the battery mounted close to the antenna to avoid a stray path to ground via the power feedline and an optical signal feedline, will to be seen. Depending on the size of the whip versus the size of the circuit ground it might still work, albeit in dipole mode. My standard mini-whip uses leaded parts and the capture area measures 30 x 40 mm. I have also made one with SMD parts, except a RFC and a 2N5109. This one delivers the same output, whilst the capture area is only 22 x 26 mm. The smaller SMD parts will introduce less stray capacitance and hence less signal loss due to a larger C-antenne to C-circuit ratio. So the capture area could be reduced. Output is ample and I have a passive four-port power devider in-line with still ample power at the receiver port. Regarding field strength, I found that at a field location the antenna delivered about 10 dB more signal at 400 kHz than received at my city location. However with the right measures the signal to noise ratio can be (almost) as good at home as it is in the field. We have bushes and large chestnut trees close by and it was necassary to raise the antenna up to 4 metre to get comparable results as in the field location. In the latter 2 metre was sufficient for a proper signal to noise ratio. The environment adds some screening, but as long as it does not degrade the signal to noise ratio, nothing is lost. My antenna is only 6 metre from the house mounted up the stem of a magnolia tree. To get rid of the local noise, traveling along the shield of the coax, grounding the shield at the bottom of the mast has been the most effective single measure. A second earth stake has been placed at the point where the cable enters the house. Feeding the antenna from a battery, mounted at the foot of the mast, will further reduce the local QRM level. However, it should be stressed that excellent results can be achieved using traditional feeding methods over a coaxial feedline. I won't boast, but using this set up, I have received many T/A stations on 137 kHz. So far 102 different non directional beacons from Canada have been logged as far as British Columbia. This shows that with a bit of sound engineering decent results can be obtained. DCF37 is here -57 dBm / S9 + 14 dB. I hope this helps. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.11]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME022-8ba54b88fe9c2b3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:14:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E8E2F38000091; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlKbN-0006zs-IT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlKbN-0006zj-6d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from n2b.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com ([124.108.96.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlKbK-0004DA-Aw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from [124.108.96.171] by n2.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from [124.108.96.187] by t2.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp102.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 700056.66308.bm@omp102.mail.aue.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 50295 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from 124.108.96.74 by rel109.mail.aue.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:12:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 72540 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from 219-88-52-196.dialup.xtra.co.nz (bjhayes@219.88.52.196 with login) by smtp105.tnz.mail.aue.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 03:12:34 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: m6thF6mswBAnWxmjtcdhrNlLbX7_ea0yMMGOjaOYSQ-- X-YMail-OSG: 1k2Q9V0VM1ncQB1FB_yZuZGJTaZAbCcJGiLscfarrhWCIMwsWtR8ehMOCXDb.derjSK.LsZ9ln_ntJe1rIkwMSVr7hxe2uxd5M2pKo3Sqia9jgNM5m9Iws69dFzCdNBuq3j1pW0jm5mTEcgYA4B.fRNN3dDrnD3fay.VOSVKe2FvzkkKxMz6ErLh0yjPS_mNT9SjkUL_qiij7BE6.j.yKLHJtwGFWjCJuKSfjQfk9BcF3cHi0AOsonuNDUZKKBO06M9wkjbr317Ry7PD X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20100227235711.01ae4958@xtra.co.nz> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:11:45 +1300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Brenda Hayes Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: 600 m. access in ZL land Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400b4b88fe9a1a3e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello all, At long last we have a temporary 600.m slot, beginning on Monday 1st. March. No special permits or reporting of results. As there is only one licence class now, any ham can participate. I will attach the good news from the President of NZART. Kevin, ZL4MD NZ Amateurs Granted Access to 600 metre Band Following submissions from NZ Association of Radio Transmitters (NZART), the group that represents NZ amateur radio operators, the NZ Government has agreed to grant NZ Amateurs temporary access to a slice of the 600 metre spectrum. From 1 March 2010, NZ Amateurs will have access to some of the spectrum that was previously used for Morse code communications with ships. The new band, 505 to 515 kHz has been granted on a temporary basis pending an international allocation to radio amateurs and includes some restrictions: * These frequencies are, or may be, allocated for use by other services. Amateur operators must accept interference from, and must not cause interference to, such other services. * Radiated power must not exceed 25 watts e.i.r.p. * The bandwidth of emissions must not exceed 200 Hz On the international scene, work continues to gain a world-wide allocation in this area through the International Amateur Radio Union (IARU), the group that represents Radio Amateurs internationally. Once this is approved, it is likely that the New Zealand Amateurs will be granted a permanent allocation in the 600 metre area. The updated Amateur GURL which is effective from 1 March 2010, can be found at: http://www.rsm.govt.nz/cms/licensing/types-of-licence/general-user-licences/amateur-radio-operators/ ZL2KH 24-February-2010 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB074-a7a84b830f121d; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:11:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 212543800006E; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhPk-0006QJ-Rl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhPk-0006QA-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhPh-0006Ws-Ul for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: (qmail 93723 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 23:10:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266880200; bh=/FUx/BXBHK3GWexrsFCGKyBAoBhCyY/Acjy2blKyPPA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UEu6V1oiVC04pPEY9abt1oMcDjdBKjEBkKNyAhb6wLaRMMqt46HSvCeR/mGnVEY8aHsT//AnUnm7sJxS2yd8Jj0x7sH0d8X29OiuhcPhi77Y+3PYghQLFNCANMmkYcdfeJw0D89sbSXdE3UerVZkJ52nUdfLcq3mKV2JY+I+W8o= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=341s8EsRki0cLUG8/mH5CedwH6Ktwr8+78lvY7dWQ+XGuHgxebNX0JlnkJHcJjMba0z3YiMSfO+/OKmvOfuq/4SFcVSH6orNDx+pn5COBlFmdMkNmS6ZkM0XGWBQugiyN6KlefXT7QEJbzZ7PBOoXEHyavBm3UShSWdiBPOR5jo=; Message-ID: <127197.92266.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: huzC_ZAVM1nPc7s5XKVke_HZiJS_UhX9iOWQSc0eXq4p2OCOxeqihCd.igITJYLn0Ub2MmEP3WwTeTUThGe7SL7LHTKIQkAiULC.4c2ka773yehVRtlPGTXGmjRXxz33ngjdfzFZ4PVqqmXGqsVEYSRGC1zGqaSGq0On2vPHpSRIliLbU6F7yp3ZBqhBXmIN6025s1tDZYR0mV5vIlJzF.riFC1YvbHE7o380FlAsnkbMSf8VRmKpe5_8EkJtJu3yHLNIW_LzkGbEfmXJ5oXeTjqVNPDsyWzilh7LoeQ.iNU_9V5TGR4GlRLdJ940HKj28u2 Received: from [213.122.36.154] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:09:59 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:09:59 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d267.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b830f10067f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current fed extremely short aer= ial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tuned circuit and feed it= off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a much smaller inductance= and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth. The efficiency would= still be minute but the firework display after dark would be a wonder to= behold! :-)) a later day Tesla..... Actually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the= ground. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can= be 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is als= o easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I reference= d) Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT wrote: > From: M0FMT > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 22:43 >=20 > Yep Rik > =A0 > So how do=A0I load it? > =A0 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in > the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while > the wire held out before melting.=20 > =A0 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =A0 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like > most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =A0 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on > this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I am looking > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need > help, ideas-wise.=A0 >=20 > If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels > above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in > doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly > G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 > =A0 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a > miniscule fraction of a wave length,=A0in the > conventional way is not the answer. > =A0 > So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... > anyone??=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =A0 > 2.5km Cu wire > of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the > coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > =A0 > 73, Rik=A0 > ON7YD - OR7T > =A0 >=20 >=20 > Van: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT > [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Group > =A0 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load > my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm > O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air > cored former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being > driven by about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be > getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =A0 > =A0 > =A0=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 >=20 >=20 > All we need is a wire strung between > K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. >=20 > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on > 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > --=20 > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XGR/1 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. > You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the > regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the > answer as I remember > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by > International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no > we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency > things may be different > now > with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach > would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k > stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, > 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other > countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy > to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF > (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. > Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something > arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an > antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what > about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which > will be on a > >> > ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the > center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth > radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance > at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are > doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good > distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it > would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short > dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments > as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, > one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> =A0 At this frequency, widely > spaced,=A0grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There > are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers > from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of > the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > >> > >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms > is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal > processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide > coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and > antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> =A0 73s > >> =A0 Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > >> > >> =A0 Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to > find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a > forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of > wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna > mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF > bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above > ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. > I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad > ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, > the ODX > >> > would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little > far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already > catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB > operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> =A0 =A0 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in > QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, > that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and > after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting > a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters > like > >> bandwith or > power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 > =A0ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> > www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI011-eab64b8667fc23e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE23038000067; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcU8-0003AY-FS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcU8-0003AP-59 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcU6-0004Al-5X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1PC6H4s025008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:36:17 -0330 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:36:17 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b8667f758bc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Many thanks for the captures Henny. There is much variability in the transatlantic path on 500 kHz. 73 Joe On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi All, > capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 24-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.209]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE073-5ebc4b6cd55629c; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:35:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 199903800019D; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:35:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdaUT-0001aR-10 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdaUS-0001aI-Lu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:44 +0000 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdaUQ-0008W3-Un for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:44 +0000 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o162XUGg003256 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:30 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c77.5dec74d3 (55720) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.149]) by cia-md02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD023-5c664b6cd4e539f; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:33:27 -0500 Received: from magic-m01.mail.aol.com (magic-m01.mail.aol.com [172.21.172.72]) by smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB024-5c664b6cd4e539f; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:33:09 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:09 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b6cd5540d8d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. Welcome !!! F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Joe nice signal on 137777.
 
Welcome !!!
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/
--part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b6e876a338; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:27:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 91F7538000197; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3P0-00011C-3i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3Oz-000113-LO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:01 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne3Ox-0007lN-Ip for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:01 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D3840163 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:53 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:52 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA7DF.ED0C1CA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 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mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F34B0380001CC; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeLwI-0007Sq-MS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeLwI-0007Sh-7V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from qmta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.59.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeLwF-0006jL-LL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from omta23.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.74]) by QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fH9g1d0041c6gX85BHDVLq; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:29 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta23.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fHEf1d0012DDHkk3jHEfwC; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:14:40 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:13:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: OE5ODL PA3CPM in CT Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA853.8951ECC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b6f9def31a1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA853.8951ECC0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clean copy of Ossi's 5 5 5 tonight. CPM just short of a full ID. Good conditions on 518 Navtex as well with several new EU stations added to the reception list. 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from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 87DF1380000A5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:01:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWxP-0000jz-5X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWxO-0000jq-KQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000 Received: from thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com ([192.54.144.136]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjWxL-0000tg-TE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000 Received: from thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (unknown [10.33.231.5]) by thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39145361032 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales (10.33.231.33) by thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (8.5.103) id 4B0E9ABB00B2BEC2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 Received: from (unknown [10.33.231.1]) by thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales with smtp id 1d64_802f_ce10310a_1fa9_11df_a50f_0013725f4d82; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 Received: from NODALNET.clb.tcfr.thales (unknown [10.33.8.19]) by thsmsgirt11p.corp.thales (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1719059802F for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET) Received: by nodalnet.clb.tcfr.thales with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:00 +0100 Message-ID: From: Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: RE: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b82720b29dd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik =20 In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the electro= nics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it wa= s possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some rods= in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return au= dio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow conv= ersations spying)=20 =20 Jean-Louis F6AGR _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hello Stefan, what about "going underground". I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas= in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put= up antennas within the sight of the enemy). If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used. Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch= .com/rogers/1rogers.htm = =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote: Hello Horst,=20 =20 That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in= the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. =20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that ra= nge and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. The= re, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire= and nobody will care about it. Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... =20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) =20 What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF= stations in that range? Are there some? =20 73, Stefan =20 PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) _____ =20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Rik
 
In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the electronics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it was possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some rods in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return audio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow conversations spying) 
 
Jean-Louis F6AGR

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:
Hello Horst,
 
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
 
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
 
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
 
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
 
73, Stefan
 
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst Stöcker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL über 1000,- ¿ sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.96]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD084-8b934b68496aff; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:48:58 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E4CAA38000D48; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcKy9-0006Ak-So for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcKy9-0006Ab-Fi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcKy8-0000Cg-31 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from COL122-W29 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:47:04 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:47:04 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: ,<001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 15:47:04.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7E0A7F0:01CAA41E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_" Subject: LF: G3KEV_500kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60604b6849540b5c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF! Yes, I was using SpecLab software for receiving your normal CW signal. I= often see your cw signal here, it is very strong usually. Sorry, I am not= able to listen it in earphone, becouse I am using my remote control recei= ver on portable QTH. I can see all signals only. But I am sure, that it wo= uld be audible perfectly.=20 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 +0000 Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz Tnx Lubnos That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode. 73 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Lubos OK2BVG=20 =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 =20 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:13=20 PM Subject: LF: 500kHz =20 Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technolog= i=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat =20 _________________________________________________________________ E-mail na cesty - z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969 --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF!
Yes, I was using SpecLab software for receiving your nor= mal CW signal. I often see your cw signal here, it is very strong usually.= Sorry, I am not able to listen it in earphone, becouse I am using my remo= te control receiver on portable QTH. I can see all signals only. But I am= sure, that it would be audible perfectly.

73!
Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS 

From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net<= br>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 +000= 0
Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz

Tnx Lubnos
That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in= Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode.
73 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original= Message -----
From:=20 Lubos= OK2BVG=20
Sent: Mon= day, February 01, 2010 8:13=20 PM
Subject:= LF: 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technolog= i=ED Microsoft = Zaregistrovat

E-mail= na cesty - z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. Zaregistrovat --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b6fb1da176; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A94D538000117; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeNH4-0007jz-4W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeNH3-0007jq-JQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:09 +0000 Received: from mx01.infotech.at ([213.174.240.1]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeNH0-0007Lg-RZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:09 +0000 Received: from [213.174.255.71] (helo=[192.168.1.152]) by mx01.infotech.at with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeNGz-0006RE-FV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:39:05 +0100 Message-ID: <4B6FB204.8090500@inext.at> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:41:08 +0100 From: oberreiter oswald User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: OE5ODL PA3CPM in CT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b6fb1d83814 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Am 08.02.2010 06:13, schrieb jrusgrove@comcast.net: > Clean copy of Ossi's 5 5 5 tonight. CPM just short of a full ID. Good > conditions on 518 Navtex as well with several new EU stations added to > the reception list. > > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 Hallo Jay! manny thanks fer report es looking on the eu tx band ,running 250w out something is new on the antenna here, running good by this conds . tu 55dx 73 de ossi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6e8b1a3e1; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:42:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B404038000082; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3eB-00019E-6h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3eA-000195-88 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:42 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl ([194.134.41.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne3e7-0007vc-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:42 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAB468036 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp03.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.8 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b6e8b183e1c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wantedHello Stefan, I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. The shed has ia 230V supply so it isn't isolated.When I increased the= hight both qrm decreased and signals increased,getting higher then 7m didn't improve much.Since I am not allowed to build higher then 5 m above the= roof I left it this way! (the pole and the coax have their own earthing in= the shed,their are also 2 common mode shokes in the coax to the house) For the lenght of the whip 60cm was ideal for this situation,I could= still hear the weakest beacons (var,fny) and their where no signs of im of= the local mw stations.DCF is 500uV (S9+20dB) at this moment,off course on= a calibrated meter. good luck with your experiments, 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Nam= ens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 23:51 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hi Victor,=20 Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design= or also with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps?= 28V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-) Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically")= apart from the house? "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decreased, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases an= d the influence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus= the input voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the= same. And if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visib= le signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noiselevel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be= a noise source in the near of the shed, isn't it? I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2= UKW variable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends= when it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful= but interesting ;-) You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse,= when you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that?= Or is the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that convers= ation and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the= best signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p= .=20 Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contac= t to VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the longest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal= :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@onli= ne.nl Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hello Stefan,Roelof, for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.Th= e antenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the hei= ght between 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm= and a low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm= and higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m= to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I re= placed the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same poten= tial as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre change= s things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws 120= mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]N= amens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast Hi Roelof, LF, Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Questi= on! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a si= gnal but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mas= t, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ver= y high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (g= ate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, sinc= e in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, when th= e case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal= C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to define= an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole?= And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly pla= ced on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium= foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm probl= em, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active ant= enna mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were= vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element= since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So le= ss and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going throug= h the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was= also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial,= even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happ= en if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a= /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pla= y with ;-) 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakk= er Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won'= t work well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of= a=20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted</TITLE= > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hello=20 Stefan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>I will=20 sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blackshee= p.It is a=20 design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>The=20 shed has ia 230V supply so it isn't isolated.When I increased the high= t both qrm=20 decreased and signals increased,getting higher then 7m didn't improve= much.Since=20 I am not allowed to build higher then 5 m above the roof I left it thi= s way!=20 (the pole and the coax have their own earthing in the shed,their are= also 2=20 common mode shokes in the coax to the house)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>For=20 the lenght of the whip 60cm was ideal for this situation,I could still= hear the=20 weakest beacons (var,fny) and  their where no signs of im of = ;the local=20 mw stations.DCF is 500uV (S9+20dB) at this moment,off course on a cali= brated=20 meter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>good=20 luck with your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face= =3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>= Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 23:51<BR><B>= Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> AW: RE: active ant= on=20 metallic mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText55831 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Victor= , </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where can i get the desig= n of your=20 preamp? Is it a broad band design or also with some band pass filter= s? Is it=20 with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-)</FONT= ></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is in this shed a 230V su= pply or is it=20 completely ("electrically") apart from the house?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Less qrm and higher outp= ut", does this=20 mean the noise level itself decreased, so not compared to the wanted= signal?=20 If hight increases and the influence of surrounding lossy things dec= reases,=20 the E-Field and thus the input voltage increases, and thus the SNR,= if noise=20 level remains the same. And if you then decrease the AF of your RX= to get=20 again a proper visible signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the= =20 background. But does the noiselevel itself decreases also significan= tly? If=20 so, there must be a noise source in the near of the shed, isn't=20 it?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think when i will do th= e test with the=20 active antenna with the 2 UKW variable antennas, i will mount it to= the kite=20 and look how it depends when it is 50m above ground, completely isol= ated.=20 Perhaps not very useful but interesting ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You decreased the lenght= from 1m to 60cm.=20 Have you also tried 30cm?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A hight of 7m gave the be= st results you=20 said. So things get worse, when you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do= you think=20 is the reason for that? Or is the shed under a 400kV power line?=20 ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Victor and Roelof, tnx fo= r your hints and=20 ideas. I like that conversation and i like to try mni unusual things= . A=20 receiving loop will give the best signal i assume, but it is not ver= y easy to=20 handle if one is always /p. </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Congrats to the= canadian stns to=20 be back on LF!!</STRONG> Hpe to get a contact to VO1NA next! But sin= ce 6 weeks=20 there is almost no wind at weekend, the longest break since 2 years&= nbsp;:-(=20 But i will be back with a big signal :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73, Stefan/DK7FC</FONT></= DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im=20 Auftrag von victor13@online.nl<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 20:46<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B>= LF: RE:=20 active ant on metallic mast<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Hello Stefan,Roelof,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>for=20 about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The an= tenna is=20 placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height betwe= en 2 m and=20 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low outpu= t,raising=20 it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and higher output,= to prevent=20 im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.At a height of= 7m this=20 gives the besr results.no detectable im from local mw stations and= a good S/N=20 ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I replaced the steel pole for= a=20 glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This could be espected= because of=20 the coax cable you are always at the same potential as with a steel= =20 pole.Ofcourse  using a battery and a glassfibre changes things= but for me=20 this is not very practical because my whip draws 120mA @=20 28V.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Hope=20 to hear more from your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>PA3FNY</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT fac= e=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:<= /B> Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47<BR><= B>Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> LF: active ant= on metallic=20 mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText11395 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Roel= of,=20 LF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roelof, why do you thin= k that this is=20 the case? Interesting Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work pro= perly" it=20 assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not optimal. And= why could=20 this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that= is=20 mounted to a metallic mast, the capacity of the "ground electrode"= against=20 the environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i assu= me),=20 compared to the active element (gate of the FET). Perhaps there wi= ll also be=20 a better coupling to qrm sources? I also have to make some measure= ments. The=20 antennas we use are comparale i think. So we could share (all) sha= re our=20 experiences :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A special question come= s up when a=20 optic fiber cable is used, since in a coax application there remai= ns a high=20 C of the ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is= used=20 (since the active element has just a few pF to the far field). Tha= t special=20 question is: What will happen, when the case/ground electrode = ;becomes=20 small against the active element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small batte= ry=20 inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal C of the active el= ement to=20 the far field? I assume, then, one has to define an optimal C rati= o of both=20 electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole? And what about a sho= rt=20 vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly placed on the grou= nd with a=20 almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of= the=20 household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm problem, so= e.g. in=20 your garden, apart from the city)?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On my new qth i made fi= rst steps to=20 receive LF with the active antenna mounted just 2m above ground bu= t hung up=20 on a wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be be= tter when=20 increasing the active element since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7= ), but it=20 wasn't. The optimal length was still 30cm. That seems not only to= be=20 "sufficient" but rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffe= cted by=20 the hight above gnd?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think one has to imag= ine the E-Field=20 lines that are going through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems= just to=20 be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees= can be=20 found, the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight= above=20 ground seems to essencial, even without local qrm. Each decrease= of input=20 signal can be compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of=20 course.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What are your ideas to= these thoughts?=20 What do you think will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes sm= all=20 against the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C fo= r both?=20 Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short di= pole?=20 Questions over Questions ;-) </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recently i had the idea= to test that=20 with a variable antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each el= ectrode.=20 That will be interesting to play with ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73!! Stefan/DK7FC</FONT= ></DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org im=20 Auftrag von Roelof Bakker<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 13:53<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B= > Re: LF:=20 AW: Re: test signal wanted<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Hello Stefan,<BR><BR>Probably a bit late, bit I= have been=20 told that an active whip won't work <BR>well on a metalic mas= t.<BR>I=20 never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of=20 a <BR>suitable mast.<BR><BR>73,<BR>Roelof,=20 pa0rdt<BR><BR></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></B= ODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IiEJAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANoHAgAHAAoAKQAA AAAAHQEBA5AGAAAEAAAeAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4A AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AAIB cQABAAAAKgAAAAHKpywc8q0oQVufKUO+mD2/SWyux34ABsKKAQAG9ncgAAUwDngAF/Y/IAAA AgEdDAEAAAAYAAAAU01UUDpWSUNUT1IxM0BPTkxJTkUuTkwACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAJ7kp9mn ygECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYMKAAAAeAEIQAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhB NTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRUVARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhz dC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAACwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA A4UAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAB9bgEAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAA OS4wAAsADYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAAHgAOgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAg4UAAAEAAAATAAAAMDAyMTgyNjA5LTA3MDIyMDEwAAALADqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwA9gAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAG+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAA AAAAAAMAcIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAg8kEfu+9 E0ylLT9BsvsxYAIB+g8BAAAAEAAAAIPJBH7vvRNMpS0/QbL7MWACAfsPAQAAAJgAAAAAAAAA OKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABE OlxEb2N1bWVudHMgYW5kIFNldHRpbmdzXFZpY3RvclxMb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5nc1xBcHBsaWNh dGlvbiBEYXRhXE1pY3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03 AAACAX8AAQAAADIAAAA8QkRFTUtGQ05MTUlJTEdJRk5PTk5DRUlHREhBQS52aWN0b3IxM0Bv bmxpbmUubmw+AAAArMQ= ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF013-8bcb4b8303731f3; 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Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:38 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:38 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5kOPJfwyNXJzQ56vS7rOj26Y0wAJjtCO References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com><9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.220337 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b8303713d36 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting: 3MW TX power give 8W ERP, so 0,0003% efficiency at a commerci= al station on 76 Hz.=20 =20 But with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered. And we talk about 120*= the frequency and for us, 300km would be enough to motivate each other to= start some experiments there ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Warren Ziegler Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 18:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Roger, I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites into the water. The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 watts! Interesting write up on the web: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote: > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with anot= her > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one= - > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they= must > all be paranoid. > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scr= ap > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renew= able > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'= m > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remem= ber >> was:- >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be >> issuing any licences for that region. >> >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differe= nt >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >> >> Alan G3NYK >> > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk <http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/>=20 > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IicWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwAUACYAAQBLAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcAFAAmAAEASwEB CYABACEAAABDMThGNjU3ODJBQjZGRDREODRBNTJDNDVCMUVCOTZBMgBVBwEDkAYACBkAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgIRBDDbTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjIwMzhaLTk2NgAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAAXdO55bPKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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(Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8Oj-0006DH-OI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8Oj-0006D7-Cy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from mx71.mail.ru ([94.100.176.85]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rn3agc@mail.ru>) id 1Nd8Oh-0003zu-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=57479 helo=EFREMOV) by mx71.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nd8Oa-000OZI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:33:49 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <004201caa5d9$58186340$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" <rn3agc@mail.ru> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <E584D03083994FF6A031D94097F0DE28@ns94d01ae4d850> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:33:17 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41184b6b2f6f37d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks Henny! bad prop.. 73 Andrey > Hi,LF > Capture RN3AGC > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > RN3AGC 03-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde > bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden > afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF062-8bee4b7e092e3df; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8622F380000B7; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiJlC-0003wd-1w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiJlB-0003wU-IY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:33 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com>) id 1NiJl9-0004KT-LC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:33 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W2 ([65.55.116.8]) by blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: <BLU146-W2CDB731A2C3C29A700A5ECF460@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:42:24 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 03:42:24.0789 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CC8F450:01CAB115] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_" Subject: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b7e092c507b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran= on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did= their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100= khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen= from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and= phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very simil= ar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course= a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just du= e to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing= seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in= Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low power as Im playing with the matching - =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'>  <BR> Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Lo= ran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves= did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American= 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a li= sten from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop= and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very= similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of co= urse  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether= this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot= of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded= like from here in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase= noise towards the end...<BR>  <BR> Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee<BR> We2 XP Q<BR>  <BR> <A href=3D"http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav">http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wa= v</A><BR>  <BR> ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this eve= ning but low power as Im playing with the matching -<BR> = <br /><hr />Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail= Free. <a href=3D'http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/' target= =3D'_new'>Sign up now.</a></body> </html>=3D --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB023-a1914b82bad02d1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 529F738000081; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njbnl-0002hl-UE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njbnl-0002hc-Jl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [95.144.95.245] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Simon@junkshifta.co.uk>) id 1Njbnj-0003QI-6w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (Fused [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1MHAMMA004552 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:23 GMT Message-ID: <4B82BA7E.9000700@junkshifta.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:22 +0000 From: Simon Newhouse <Simon@junkshifta.co.uk> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> In-Reply-To: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b82bacf34c4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) James Cowburn wrote: > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? Ha Ha... epic. Stuff the huge antennas, what you need to do is get an old audio amp, load the output with a 8ohm 100watt resistor and stick a large inductor in series with the smoothing capacitor so it rejects the audio signals and there you have a PLT transmitter ! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.142]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC024-a8d64b71a571252; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:12:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 99B9F38000301; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:11:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeuXi-0004bS-LX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeuXi-0004bJ-Bp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jcraig@mun.ca>) id 1NeuXb-0003a8-4q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o19IA1ww031650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:40:01 -0330 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:40:01 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> In-Reply-To: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002091439340.24783@plato.ucs.mun.ca> References: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: 137 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408e4b71a56f21d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Victor, Thank-you for the capture. 73 Joe VO1NAx On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, victor13@online.nl wrote: > Hello all, > > received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr > transmissions (15% tx) > > 73 > > Victor > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB033-a21e4b6f115617b; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:15:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 50C93380000FC; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCaL-0003ND-3Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCaK-0003N4-OZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <bvgbob@hotmail.com>) id 1NeCaI-0002rl-Qx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W61 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:14:10 -0800 Message-ID: <COL122-W610C29E6620BF0F293ECD6D3520@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:14:10 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 19:14:10.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA2D31D0:01CAA829] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_" Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6f1155436b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_" --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There are nice signals on 600m band. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'> Hello LF!<br>There are nice signals on 600m band.<br><br>Lubos, OK2BVG, JN= 88KS<br> <br /><hr />Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryho= dn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba <a href=3D'https://signup.live= .com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969' target=3D'_new'>Zaregistrovat</a></body> </html>=3D --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_-- --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; 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FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH//2Q== --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.210]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE034-5ead4b71c2c3257; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:17:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CED06380002D4; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NewUc-0004w2-Cm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NewUb-0004vt-Jw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:29 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <cpaul@gmx.net>) id 1NewUW-0004Id-WA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:29 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Feb 2010 20:15:05 -0000 Received: from p5DD353DF.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.83.223] by mail.gmx.net (mp058) with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 21:15:05 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/FWoJhfCHF5julsdfSi/yUbUWDy2A7gRDNsoQwem 0WQ1xNUPrz3qR3 Message-ID: <008a01caa9c4$92d24b60$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Clemens" <cpaul@gmx.net> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002090910s5fc7d42aybfce15ed093b032a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:14:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.5,0.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d24b71c2c02400 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've no practical experience with Mosfet PAs. Nonetheless according to your diagram this is definitely a 1:3 transfo= rmer. Ther's no way how an autotransformer mode could come into play somehow= . >The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full= screened as they pass=20 >through the cores / >tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the= hot end and *joined to the=20 >two ends of the secondary*, You mean...joined to the two ends of the *primary* ? It seems that those connections serve to increase the effective conduc= tor cross section of the primary to carry the heavy currents involved. The braids of the coax ar eused as parallel conductors of the brass tu= bing =3D primary winding.. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:10 PM Subject: LF: PA matching oddity Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transform= ers used on MOSFET PAs -=20 I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW= out, and made up from 8=20 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It runs from wh= at is more than likely a=20 50V rail. The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at= 13.56MHz, but the design=20 is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at inpu= t and output. Which is=20 where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal... The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as=20 those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary winding is made= of insulated coax, two=20 turns are full screened as they pass through the cores / tubing, but= each turn has the braid cut=20 at the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the= third turn consisting just=20 the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (two of= coax plus the single core)=20 sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surr= ounded by a pair of=20 ferrite cores with a connection at the far end. A diagram can be se= en at=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56=20 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this should result= in a maximum power output=20 of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 900 Watts. (Sanity check, a single ended desi= gn at half the Rload =3D=20 (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation).= Which is not 1kW and is=20 only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125= ohms, Pout max would be=20 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expect to see on a= real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really th= e 1:3 turns ratio it=20 intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings could have= have become an=20 auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hi= gher. But for a 10 year=20 old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr= 1.jpg=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it= delivered nearly 150 Watts=20 with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply volts down to 17= V. Now, plugging these=20 values into the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max= possible, - but I was=20 seeing more power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW= ? Andy www.g4jnt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 9/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3660" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've no practical experience with Mos= fet=20 PAs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nonetheless according to your diagram= this is=20 definitely a 1:3 transformer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ther's no way how an autotransformer= mode could=20 come into play somehow.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>>The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns ar= e full=20 screened as they pass through the cores / >tubing, but each turn&nb= sp;has the=20 braid cut at the hot end and *joined to the two ends of the secondary*= ,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You mean...joined to the two ends of= the *primary*=20 ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems that those connections serve= to increase=20 the effective conductor cross section</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of the primary to carry the= heavy=20 currents involved.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The braids of the coax ar eused as pa= rallel=20 conductors of the brass tubing =3D primary winding..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73<BR>Clemens<BR>DL4RAJ</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-L= EFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:= black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dandy.g4jnt@googlemail.com href=3D"mailto:andy.g4jnt@g= ooglemail.com">Andy Talbot</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org</A> ;=20 <A title=3Dukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:ukmicrowa= ves@yahoogroups.com">ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 6:10=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: PA matching oddi= ty</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching tran= sformers=20 used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at= over 1kW=20 out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,  RFPP53 types, roughly equival= ent to=20 MRF140.  It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. = ; The=20 modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, bu= t the=20 design is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching= =20 transformers at input and output.  Which is where I may be miss= ing=20 something - they may not be quite so normal...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The output transformer has a slightly different topology to des= igns seen=20 before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.  Th= e=20 secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full scre= ened as=20 they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the bra= id cut at=20 the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with= the third=20 turn consisting just the inner conductor with no braid over it.=  =20   All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside= the usual=20 single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of= ferrite=20 cores with a connection at the far end.    A diagram= can be=20 seen at <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif">http://www.= g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif</A>  =20 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...</DIV> <DIV>the impedances don't work out properly...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer= will=20 present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.  &nb= sp; From a=20 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.= 56 =3D 900=20 Watts.    (Sanity check,  a single ended design= at half=20 the Rload =3D   (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- norma= l push pull PA=20 calculation).   Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute= theoretical=20 maximum, anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BUT,   if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload= would be=20 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort= of value=20 I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone met that winding configuration  before? &n= bsp; Is it=20 really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there so= me way the=20 windings could have have become an auto-transformer and be givi= ng=20  1:4 turns ratio ?</DIV> <DIV>If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may= be=20 higher.  But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely.&nb= sp;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few pictures of the O/P transformer:   <A href= =3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg= </A>   =20 <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.co= m/PAtfmr2.jpg</A>  =20 <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.co= m/PAtfmr3.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a quick test on the module today, running from a = 10A=20 supply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting= and=20 dragging the supply volts down to 17V.  Now, plugging these val= ues into=20 the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible,=  -=20 but I was seeing more power.   </DIV> <DIV> ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4= - BUT HOW=20 ?</DIV> <DIV><BR clear=3Dall>Andy<BR><A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com">ww= w.g4jnt.com</A><BR></DIV> <P> <HR> <P></P><BR>Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.<BR>Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20 <BR>Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10=20 08:35:00 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD101-86104b82bc912fc; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:19:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C8E56380000E1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:19:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbvF-0002mO-0K for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbvE-0002mF-HW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:16 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NjbvB-0003Uh-Rb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:16 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1878299bwz.4 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:18:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=u8pGymZr07+U6UoYIYesflSBT1e3ZnQIG0Dr1m3MM0g=; b=kZZY0RPXo2a5mpKrdbIr0K7OqvK1JvxhlORJ7OdxBSjRrJ3tdYnMPVKAUG4sGH4wkJ +73RydrS7JHIqUpAInD9zR6AI614fyiDnilpcYBk2Z4kblXnaQ9+mxBOx8t6IvcUZc9X iWuvUyRRykTEELSytlUNT/KB2T0o7mMKKLmYU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=cdJMTKEgI1BaxxSYvd0m5LF2GWwSA+D6/9S/HCgBC3TCVuJ4fFT6Yfnhjx0ijVy4y7 0oZtSoqBepOAKZDQGxkyXsRcwkHQM2zYCdcMQ626GPit6orlDWzbNq+19W+aE4NgYZl6 02/+RgkGVugZVraUMyOa58N/8QZ+DvsmBYuFY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.25.197 with SMTP id a5mr2152460bkc.70.1266859086843; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:18:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:06 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325556d1ada12620480339dbe X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d238.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b82bc8f0cb3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with another request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one - possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they must all be paranoid. On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scrap our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renewable energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'm happy to discuss this with others off-list. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember > was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div style=3D"text-align: left;">This is an interesting answer and today= OFCOM should be tested with another request. I will happily do it if no-o= ne else will. <br><br>With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction commu= nications, i.e. non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal rig= ht to allocate "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's= concern was a military one - possibly compromising transmissions to nucle= ar submarines in the low VLF region - and they were "instructed"= to give this response.=A0 If so they must all be paranoid.<br> <br>On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would= scrap our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into= renewable energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion= here. I'm happy to discuss this with others off-list.<br> <br>73s<br>Roger G3XBM<br><br></div><br><br><div style=3D"text-align: left= ;" class=3D"gmail_quote">On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alan.melia@btinternet.com">alan.melia@btint= ernet.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi as far as th= e Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4J= NT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001= /2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:-<br> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region.<br> <br> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different= now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wor= thwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.<br> <br> Alan G3NYK<br><br></blockquote></div><div style=3D"text-align: left;"><br>= <a href=3D"http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= /a><br><a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a= href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3= XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> </div> --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.16]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB064-a77f4b82a53d375; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:39:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E6955380000ED; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaMy-0001X6-Aa for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaMx-0001Wx-U1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:47 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>) id 1NjaMv-0002WF-QG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:47 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D1C51C0BB for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:26:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC0CF386B for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:26:58 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:27:13 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222152658.DFC0CF386B@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_22838249==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40104b82a53a369b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_22838249==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. >But that are dreams... > >Stefan/DK7FC Stefan, I you can manage to produce a significant ground wave signal the real advantage of 9kHz might be at distances beyond 1000km. I played a little with GRNDWAV3 (written by G4FGQ) and the difference between 9kHz and 137kHz seems minimal below 500km (< 6dB) while it will be much more difficult to generate any ERP at 9kHz. Just to give you an idea : Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km. But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km) 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --=====================_22838249==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <body> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But that are dreams...<br><br> Stefan/DK7FC</blockquote><br> Stefan,<br><br> I you can manage to produce a significant ground wave signal the real advantage of 9kHz might be at distances beyond 1000km.<br> I played a little with GRNDWAV3 (written by G4FGQ) and the difference between 9kHz and 137kHz seems minimal below 500km (< 6dB) while it will be much more difficult to generate any ERP at 9kHz.<br><br> Just to give you an idea : <br> Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km.<br> But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km)<br><br> 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T <br> </body> </html> --=====================_22838249==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC073-a97d4b82c415e1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:51:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2CDE538000043; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:51:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcQB-0003Ny-HX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcQB-0003Np-6J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <fitec@omskcity.com>) id 1NjcQ9-0003qk-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1MHo7UM009642 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:50:08 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00423 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:55:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:55:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" <fitec@omskcity.com> cc: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> In-Reply-To: <XFMail.100223002036.root@noname.nodomain.nowhere> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.1100223002701.421A-100000@noname.nodomain.nowhere> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:50:10 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498,MISSING_HEADERS=0.189 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b82c413000d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value > accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power > the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), > 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km. > But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would > be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to > resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km) This calculations is for far field. But in this case near field is more significal if distance << lambda. For near field one can derive simple formula (extremally approximative!) U_{RX}=U_{TX}(h/D)^3 where D -- distance, h - antenna heigh. Similar RX and TX antennas assumed and very high RX input impedance assumed also. So if voltage on TX ant is, say, 1 kV and RX can recive 1 uV and h=10m then maximal distance is of order 10 km. It isn't very difficult to derive more acurate formula. But details of antenna design is needed for this. I did some experiments with such frequency many years ago. I was supprised then woods, walls e.t.c. near antenna yelds very strong signal attenuations (much more then for 136 kc, many of tens of dB). If one think a litle then it is not very strange. Inducted charges in, say, trees yelds field of opposite sign then antenna field. Trees are good coductor on such low freq an they 'short' a field. Keep it in your mind! Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD034-86ab4b744526278; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:57:58 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B698A3800069D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdHM-0000nP-EC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdHM-0000nG-13 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from mail-yw0-f176.google.com ([209.85.211.176]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <dominic.baines@gmail.com>) id 1NfdHJ-0003y1-9e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:39 +0000 Received: by ywh6 with SMTP id 6so1321575ywh.4 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:56:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ujr475aDga+2J9fj9dG3tcupRTDIRW/ni8i0IAeWVlQ=; b=oZUobN7yjOyTggwiQnyzNnAbl1vW03deQnLRkiFdDCMknILdYwoSj1nCqUZtsPFm45 j84UHnY0x6rHXKN/DCBdhazXYSILvU/e4LxETyrmdK4UAyJGwlyRPqxv0BUEWMSrNHRz 8+MkN5/oXC6dSFyNQ4SxilygyjtQfElL0bLLg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XsewuPA5kjYk5uunwTnK6bXEOOXvl6PEZd3NN28jLaJ/T7yFIBx4k0icwPYoD+70CO VOB5k5HbQCwIro04ukuyl3nCHRdKCN5aVaUvi3kXZKCW/7+NUsM1IKrIkKt7rlGbWKU7 qy4WuBcHVavQYhiAW3ouUXGqxhZrdnjjRG+jQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.162.34 with SMTP id p34mr435144ago.67.1265910973974; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:56:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002110956h3861cb65h51e4f2d9ef4e89dc@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m239.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b7445240e9f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Two RX options. FT817 and a 500KHz SDR RX (modified Softrock Lite V6.2 for 160m) TX options. Had built a M0BMU TX PA unit long time ago (but never added PA MOSFET's) as no NoV at the time. I have both ceramic osc (either 4/8MHz), a FCC1/FCC2 AD DDS, K5BCQ Si570 DDS or AMQRP DDS-60 all that can be fed into a 4020 or 4060 divider to obtain 501-504KHz signal. Then into 4427 and M0BMU TX or a two stage 2N3904 buffer and then PA. I have an 11W (at 160m) bipolar transformer PA that could be used as well as a couple IRF50 options. Been sent a copy of the GW3UEP schematic which is another 4/8MHz oscillator and divider/pa stage. I might, If you know the ECL82 glowbug circuit I was going to try and recreate using an ECL84 (triode/pentode) and grind a 500KHz crystal. Expect will be keying things manually initially, QRS, as per xband 80m/500KHz qso from 2008, so sql cards hopefully. Ant will be inverted L with 10m vertical section and c40m horizontal. VSWR meter almost complete as located some 3C85 toroids and some 2SC2166 for the PA so maybe a Marathon??? 7 pole LPF ready. 72 Dom M1KTA On 11 February 2010 17:04, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > Congrats , Dom > Bands =A0a =A0bit =A0full these =A0days , but always =A0room for =A0one= more ..hi > What tx system are =A0you using ? > 73 , Graham , > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dominic Baines" <dominic.baines@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM > To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> > Subject: LF: New NoV > >> >> Hi all, >> >> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. >> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. >> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso >> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. >> Will focus on CW initially. >> >> 72 >> >> Dom >> M1KTA >> >> > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE041-5eae4b748bea6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B558380001C8; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhzY-0002h3-6H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhzX-0002gu-O2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:35 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NfhzT-0005y9-OO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:35 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so289326bwz.29 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:58:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0WGA9r/etrFEha113GRmi/85lCK8BzHqpcYB1MT+W9A=; b=tp7LTiiromtI0lB7oNKZf/UJerI38ith7A+Qh6kwypvMcKjmbIZcMQy0IlibTI9UHw a+eoFVsSDyLAMW6GtYiugUOcae1ySyuQh6pYjBySMwwondxE7wnWioin7mEuWonouUIg KN75OcNAVW0LFxpnrOCoifs739WF0s5L+zDNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=uLE/Yncg3AGeFN+dqRIdKcukyxC0WqimrViHoU0vCVw8Sh1kTTbo+USsPmPJtllPdA f8seGua3HbxOHoniYQtXJaSLt7dfFsClVBhEen7bs8wT2k1iatIi/MdgA6F0aiqWYNaU wGfcwI/vTpMjsQPgvRHI9e2oi/okHSX9etp6c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr317842bkk.206.1265929105526; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:58:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:25 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d295.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b748be857cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>wrote: > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU <G7NKS> S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 <M0BMU> G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk> > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > Hi, >> >> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight >> on >> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. >> >> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be >> welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> >> > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary/Jim/Jim,<br><br>Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify th= e method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too.<br><br>73s<br>R= oger G3XBM<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 February 2010 22:37= , James Moritz <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:james.moritz@btopen= world.com">james.moritz@btopenworld.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,= 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,<br> <br> Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:<br> <br> 213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83<br> 213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1<br> 213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20<br> 214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1<br> 214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6<br> 214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20<br> 214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83<br> <br> And Jim:<br> <br> 221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2<br> 221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR<br> 221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92<br> <br> Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!<br> <br> Cheers, Jim Moritz<br> 73 de M0BMU<br> <br> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <<a href=3D= "mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk</a>>= <br> To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <<a href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org" target=3D"_blank">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>><br> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM<br> Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR<br> <br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,= 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br> <br> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on<br> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.<br> <br> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be<b= r> welcome.<br> <br> 73, Gary - G4WGT.<br> <br> </blockquote> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br><a href=3D"http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br><a href=3D"= http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a href=3D"http://ww= w.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.140]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF071-5efa4b82c9e3174; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:16:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14A2038000138; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcoA-0003cr-Fd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcoA-0003ci-1H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <john.rabson@numeo.fr>) id 1Njco7-00042s-61 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (qmail 30576 invoked by uid 507); 22 Feb 2010 18:51:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 18:51:34 +0100 Message-ID: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:51:39 +0100 From: "John RABSON" <john.rabson@numeo.fr> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d084b82c9e0178e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as= 73 and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information= . An article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue= of the AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching onli= ne for G0AKN. =20 Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved wit= h a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. 73 John Rabson=20 F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b6d1e041a5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:45:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2150A38000137; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdfKY-0003CX-RB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdfKY-0003CO-DX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from outbound03.telus.net ([199.185.220.222]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <sthed475@telus.net>) id 1NdfKV-0001lY-4T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100206074343.YCQU18427.priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:43:43 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 00ABA1F063D32C3A for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:43:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:42 +0000 From: Scott Tilley <sthed475@telus.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> In-Reply-To: <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b6d1e0320cf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Joe, What are you up to now? Please fill us in. 73 Scott VE7TIL VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: > Has VE finally been given 2200m then? > > Steve / VE7SL > > > > >> Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. >> >> Welcome !!! >> >> >> >> F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP >> >> RX: PM-SDR >> Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 >> >> _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) > > > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook": http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.147]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB102-86244b8a37c734f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:30:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7A6F7380000A6; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlfSj-0002TE-2s for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlfSi-0002T5-99 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <bvgbob@hotmail.com>) id 1NlfSg-0006lE-4K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W56 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:29:10 -0800 Message-ID: <COL122-W56AFAD687AC3EC3E565BD2D33D0@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com> To: _RSGB_LF <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:29:10 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <AE40935B3EC94D40AFFC78CFC5FD3733@Black> References: <COL122-W35AD812FF26EE87C1DC075D33D0@phx.gbl>,<AE40935B3EC94D40AFFC78CFC5FD3733@Black> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 09:29:10.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BB717B0:01CAB858] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_" Subject: LF: WPF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40934b8a37c50267 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Marcus, Victor and LF! I guessed that it might be Oswald=B4s signal, when I had seen the huge lin= e on my monitor. Thanks for your comments, it is clear now. Have a nice rest of the weekend! =20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25 +0100 Subject: LF: Re: WPF Good morning Lubos, LF, =20 the interfering signal was also quite strong=20 here: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using a slightly=20 drifting transmitter. =20 I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be= =20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were more active=20 grabbers, also from the American side. =20 Have a nice sunday, Markus =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Lubos OK2BVG=20 =20 To: _RSGB_LF=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:47=20 AM Subject: LF: WPF =20 Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual.=20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure.= Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver= outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos,=20 OK2BVG =20 Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamov= ou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'> Hello Marcus, Victor and LF!<br>I guessed that it might be Oswald=B4s sign= al, when I had seen the huge line on my monitor. Thanks for your comments,= it is clear now.<br><br>Have a nice rest of the weekend!<br> <br>Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS<br><br><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: markusvester@aol.c= om<br>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<br>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25= +0100<br>Subject: LF: Re: WPF<br><br> <style> .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} </style> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Good morning Lubos, LF,</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">the interfering signal was also quite= strong=20 here: <a href=3D"http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg">h= ttp://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg</a>.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using a sl= ightly=20 drifting transmitter.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He would= be=20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were more= active=20 grabbers, also from the American side.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Have a nice sunday,</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Markus</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right:= 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original= Message ----- </div> <div style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;= -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;= -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-sty= le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; li= ne-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system= -font: none;"><b>From:</b>=20 <a title=3D"bvgbob@hotmail.com" href=3D"mailto:bvgbob@hotmail.com">Lubos= OK2BVG</a>=20 </div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a ti= tle=3D"rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org">_RSGB_LF</a> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Sun= day, February 28, 2010 5:47=20 AM</div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b>= LF: WPF</div> <div><br></div>Hello LF!<br>I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual.= =20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure.= Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver= outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise.<br><br>73!<br><br>Lubos,=20 OK2BVG<br><br> <hr> Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamov= ou ochranou <a href=3D"https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969">Zar= egistrovat</a> =3D </blockquote> <br /><hr />Hotmail:= D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi=ED Micro= soft <a href=3D'https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969' target=3D'= _new'>Zaregistrovat</a></body> </html>=3D --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC031-a8db4b881f6457; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:22:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C1DCE380000C0; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5kP-00005d-B8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5kO-00005U-Pe for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1Nl5kM-0008Gz-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 427E27000082 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 346F37000086 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id C5AFF7000082 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:04 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226192104809.C5AFF7000082@mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <C062863D251C4C0B9696FB71018B7521@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <EB1A0AA487BD1947AD61D2A37F82F5B60ECD0E2CF5@OFCOMMAIL-02.intra.ofcom.local> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <EB1A0AA487BD1947AD61D2A37F82F5B60ECD1971DF@OFCOMMAIL-02.intra.ofcom.local> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002252108140.13549@paranoid.lipkowski.org> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> <fc7eccec1002260659m451c6513h1cf47ccfbc7236a8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002260659m451c6513h1cf47ccfbc7236a8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:20:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b881f5f516e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New level tonight ... translations , fair point on the beacon's , bla= nket stamen's from regional people , thank god for ofcom , if anyone= took any official notice of what go's over this packet network 'we'= would all be using bean cans with string attached .. and then on= ly inside our houses ..I'm just waiting for Jose to add the sou= ndcard select module ..=20 I assume interference is not the same as co-occupancy ? G .. =20 From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation belo= w 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' di= scussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has take= n hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will= not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski= .org> wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OF= COM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no alloc= ation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be= required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy unde= r the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf= spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from= one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license fr= om the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field= strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, bu= t is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is= not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "bu= t you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate pot= ential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on= 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regula= ted). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3DContent-Ty= pe> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP:= 15px" id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 CanvasTab= Stop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area"> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>New level tonight ... translations ,= fair point on=20 the  beacon's , blanket stamen's from regional people , thank god=   for=20 ofcom , if anyone took any official notice of what go's over this pack= et network=20 'we' would all  be using  bean cans with  string  = attached=20 .. and then  only inside our  houses  ..I'm just waitin= g =20 for  Jose to  add  the  soundcard select module ..= =20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I assume  interference is not th= e  same=20 as co-occupancy ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>G .. </FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma"> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3D"mailto:and= y.g4jnt@googlemail.com CTRL + Click to follow link" href=3D"mail= to:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com">Andy Talbot</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 26, 2010 2:59 PM</DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = CTRL + Click to follow link" href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Op= eration=20 below 9kHz?</DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Yes, unbelievable isn't it!</DIV> <DIV>Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.</DIV> <DIV><BR clear=3Dall>Andy<BR><A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com">www.g4= jnt.com</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <SPAN dir= =3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">g8fzk@g8fzk.fs= net.co.uk</A>></SPAN>=20 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0p= x 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>Warren ,<BR><BR>If= you  think this is bad, you=20  should take a  look at the  'ROS' discussion's in th= e yahoo=20   digital data group ..  SS  paranoia has taken hold= !<BR><BR>G=20 ..<BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------<BR>From= : "Warren=20 Ziegler" <<A title=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com CTRL + Clic= k to follow link" href=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com" target=3D_blank= >wd2xgj@gmail.com</A>><BR>Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM<BR>To: <<A href=3D"mailto= :rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" target=3D_blank>rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org</A>><BR>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd:=20 Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote><BR>Asking Ofc= om for a license or Nov to generate a signal=20 that will not<BR>extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for<BR>nothing....<BR><BR>-- <BR>73 Warren K2ORS<BR>   =  =20         WD2XGJ<BR>       =  =20     WD2XSH/23<BR>          &nbs= p;  =20 WE2XEB/2<BR>             =20 WE2XGR/1<BR><BR><BR>On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkows= ki <<A href=3D"mailto:sq5bpf@lipkowski.org" target=3D_b= lank>sq5bpf@lipkowski.org</A>> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0p= x 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu,= 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN= : 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>Pe= ople may be interested in the reply from Rod=20 Wilkinson at OFCOM received<BR>today. I asked him what OFCOM's= view=20 would be.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[...]<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN= : 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote><B= R>They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there=20 is no allocation for<BR>frequencies below 9 kHz. However in th= e UK, a=20 licence would be required as<BR>there is no lower frequency li= mit for=20 wireless telegraphy under the WT Act<BR>2006.=20 [...]<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>there is already a very big commercial= user of=20 the elf and vlf spectrum,<BR>they inject very big power into gro= und=20 dipoles. emissions from one continent<BR>can be heard on another= . and they=20 do this without any license from the radio<BR>authorities. the= only=20 regulation they need regards maximum field strengths<BR>(and thi= s is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<BR>= and not=20 the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is=20 usually<BR>50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)<BR><BR>sometimes when deali= ng with=20 the goverment, the best practice is not to ask<BR>at all :) even= if they=20 agree with you there will always be a "but you will<BR>need a li= cense for=20 that" clause.<BR><BR>if you have to ask, ask them if it is their= duty to=20 regulate potential<BR>electromagnetic wave transmission from ins= talations=20 operating on 50Hz (or<BR>any other frequency in the 0-9kHz regio= n, that is=20 not ITU regulated). you<BR>would probably get an entirely differ= ent answer=20 :)<BR><BR>VY 73<BR><BR>Jacek / SQ5BPF<BR><BR>ps. the answer that= you got=20 from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><= /DIV><BR> <br><br></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.7]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b80f027362; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:34:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C10BE380000A5; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:34:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj7FY-0005hw-QW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj7FY-0005hn-9f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jpm.f1afj@online.fr>) id 1Nj7FV-0001Nq-NP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEA94C808C for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059604C804F for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:04 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= <jpm.f1afj@online.fr> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40074b80f02505f8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Scott , Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm It is my grabber on 2200m ! 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj Scott Tilley a =E9crit : > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well=20 > documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of=20 > effort would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-md10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD103-8b9a4b74378f2a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:00:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7C542380001EC; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:59:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcNg-0000Gw-Nb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcNg-0000Gn-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1NfcNd-0003OR-Pp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BE380700008F for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B1D5D7000086 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 319727000090 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:55 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211165855203.319727000090@mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002090910s5fc7d42aybfce15ed093b032a@mail.gmail.com> <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33E@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> <op.u7y043pdyzqh0k@pc1> In-Reply-To: <op.u7y043pdyzqh0k@pc1> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:58:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b74378c3624 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 This seller has them .. but =A321 each ? G .. http://www.littlediode.com/components/SFH750V_Opto.html? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roelof Bakker" <roelof@ndb.demon.nl> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:23 PM To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Subject: LF: Fiber optic components > > Hello all, > > As a non business customer, I have great difficulties in sourcing sm= all=20 > quantities of the SFH750V and SFH350V or other members of the same= product=20 > family. Digi-key and Farnell don't carry them or require a 200 piece= s=20 > minimum order. > > Does anyone know of a suitable source? > > I need these for making an optical link for my mini-whip and some ot= her=20 > interesting tests. > > Thank you in advance, > Roelof bakker, pa0rdt > >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b6f2a9d247; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:03:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF3943800008A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEH9-0004hS-4w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEH8-0004hJ-NM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:38 +0000 Received: from smtp825.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>) id 1NeEH5-00041n-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 64256 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=jVH6nhLSzRoUbULoCfL8Q0KPZUotjlTqQjfOjFawMaYg8hOcTZlA29SzcXKzURHhsZNrAbQBTF0HBthkDwVqRVSh5GTohCDOr8VpfIc2ot+5Ry1b5m6FlHt5MF6Mkd59ERwe5tY9dDly44NBKQVHehfiCMfmIQBAiKLyuxm+t5U= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp825.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: I13daV8VM1l6qFUydc_kkQ80SKNCuyre0dmNLO0UsVT0wQ24_SUnPoX1heh8hBlih66MezHJa0C_5JwTw6EaYHGtTVk.k8yXQKcDEwgoJwJ6HcR88pxCq_agvZf10v6RUu_KR_6gQFzfZ6VhEq8tM1xCuP_8i4AQzoIRb1pl4VGziZLq6Pj0KD7rckDZP.eYrTNyW_5.OpEzzHUJeK6zfMpw0FhT_l9_7AureAp6qJV3RgVw.Nl.1fIeWq8gNL0ZC1beKDwNvbOZYbpTcRxFxvqv7njcxynn X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002071020g1f1fe66dq4bd363e8d4142c39@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002071020g1f1fe66dq4bd363e8d4142c39@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b6f2a9b3070 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Andy, LF Group, I have just tried a quick test here, which more or less confirms your findings. My approach was to receive off-air signals as normal with 300Hz BW, but to also run Spectrum Lab on the decoding PC, configured in " narrow CW filter" mode, with centre frequency set to 1475 Hz (the audio frequency G4JNT comes out on) with a BW of 50Hz. The resulting filtered audio was fed into a second PC running the WSPR decoder. This has the effect of increasing the reported SNR by about 6dB to 13dB when the filtered audio is decoded - however, this is smaller than the increase you saw. Doing this also produces a lot of false decodes - the spectrogram display in WSPR shows a couple of broad, bright, noise-like bands where the passband-stopband transitions of the audio filter occur, with assorted spectral lines that are probably low-level noise from one PC or another. I have often noticed the number of false decodes goes up when there are narrow-band spectral "features" present, rather than just uniform noise. It is curious why the WSPR spectrogram display shows fairly uniform noise baseline across the whole 200Hz, with brighter bands of noise where the filter attenuation is increasing, rather than a bright band of noise in the 50Hz passband and darker in the stopband. Increasing the RX bandwidth to 3kHz makes essentially no difference to the normal, un-filtered WSPR decoder over the 300Hz BW. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Cc: <jfell@tesco.net> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:20 PM Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests > To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported by > some > stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct > link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.89]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b7f210c11b; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:38:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE6EA38000041; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NicPu-0007bS-JR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NicPu-0007bJ-6u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <dl7et@gmx.de>) id 1NicPs-0003ht-DH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Feb 2010 23:37:42 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5e53f.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.229.63] by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2010 00:37:42 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+lDBgE3bulZOS3qKwdqOpPOzlL0Ts2dPmiW7EuPW +/lMKLAHFYujUD Message-ID: <005d01cab1bc$87bfc360$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" <dl7et@gmx.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100219-0, 19.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60594b7f210a2a3f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I Have your signal on screen with 'O' can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message ----- From: <bxi@go2.pl> To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve later and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA104-b5474b6d5da72b5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:16:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 902123800010F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjZZ-0003zT-Vd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjZZ-0003zK-Id for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <F4DTL@aol.com>) id 1NdjZX-0003Ar-Pq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16CFPB8012825 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:25 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cf5.6a8d9364 (34988) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.149]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB011-5c684b6d5d514f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:15:20 -0500 Received: from magic-d26.mail.aol.com (magic-d26.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.160]) by smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB026-5c684b6d5d514f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:15:13 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <20714.4cd687f9.389eb751@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:13 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6d5da57158 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanx Markus for this information. Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) In a message dated 06/02/2010 13:05:07 Paris, Madrid, markusvester@aol.com writes: Dear Nicolas, LF, the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last night (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message ----- From: _F4DTL@aol.com_ (mailto:F4DTL@aol.com) To: _rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org_ (mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ _ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=3Dr= ole_body bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7><F= ONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Thanx Markus for this information.</DIV> <DIV>Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman" FAMI= LY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT><FONT lan= g=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE= =3D"12"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face= =3D"Times New Roman" FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"> <DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMIL= Y=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"></B></I><A title=3Dhttp://lfistes.erst.azer= ttyu.net/ href=3D"http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.= azerttyu.net/</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 06/02/2010 13:05:07 Paris, Madrid, markusvester@ao= l.com=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARG= IN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#00= 0000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Dear Nicolas, LF,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last= night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF,= and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best 73,</DIV> <DIV>Markus (DF6NM)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5p= x; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3Dltr> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:= black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmailto:F4DTL@aol.com href=3D"mailto:F4DTL@aol.com">F4DTL@ao= l.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmailto:rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"= >rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 06, 20= 10 2:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: PW beacon ???</DIV= > <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's=20 grabber)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT>= <FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSE= RIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV> <DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New= Roman" FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 colo= r=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12">= </B></I><A title=3Dhttp://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ href=3D"htt= p://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/=20 <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></A></FONT></DIV></FONT></BL= OCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC024-a8d64b71265813c; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:09:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7930138000172; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nem4x-0002yG-3v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nem4w-0002y7-Q6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:18 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>) id 1Nem4v-0007fa-8D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:18 +0000 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1998Gio008359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:08:16 +0100 Received: from [129.206.29.70] (pc70.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.70]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id o1998FEY017442 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:08:15 +0100 Message-ID: <4B7125F6.6090507@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:08:06 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan=5FSch=E4fer?= <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <PAEFLMFGBDKKCONLMLBICEBNDHAA.ganymede444@btopenworld.com> <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> In-Reply-To: <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: LF: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b7126573517 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME041-8bac4b7972ea3de; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:14:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 19BC8380002BF; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:14:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3ZE-0003Rc-Rx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3ZE-0003RT-H1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.150]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <wd2xgj@gmail.com>) id 1Nh3ZB-0002Z9-QI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so337478qwk.16 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:12:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=SYce6lEjOPROE89xUr0GWFcSNOFafS3RtKDNlCASSnc=; b=ZIXXBCuzPXOhAyeDkh7qU0vXHyxDE3uNf854HltgdGJ3QLOUAjb+SIUIylFQPLyCnH KT6XS5CUBThMZNZH+uh04Wx1NJNaUFgck95wAsFu5d1G9tacEoocoxygqKAAp/mDyGwK 0GXxVFyabWApQkff8dBmNLYIbF2l7nCF3Skhg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=TrmbgFOYSznIaQ6TFalGh4J8RYm85uqOz3ipIlYznq2946YkkUXQ3pPRxXgZxCO+q9 W7ziviJoKHAudkGGUcsffEk7Hg7JRcaFZleqpf3wIkK9jL2EwS3qAsgSc7vB4p/QILA+ ZnB0YjUh31QK2ZhNK6NcBbwldrYdDNitv8RRQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.107.84 with SMTP id a20mr2708005qap.356.1266250372535; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:12:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <COL122-W3DD2865C11F02F9D65BE6D34A0@phx.gbl> References: <COL122-W3DD2865C11F02F9D65BE6D34A0@phx.gbl> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002150812p28f7474dlcb4614d360d61bbe@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: XGJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m205.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b7972e82f3c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Lubos, Thank you for the capture! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2010/2/15 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com>: > Hello Warren, LF! > Your signal was very nice here last night. > > Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b7b1aba397; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 13BB038000281; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhVnE-0006OG-KH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhVnE-0006O7-4s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1NhVnB-0004SC-Er for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 908941C00089; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8266A1C00091; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.25.76]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id DBEB51C00089; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:08 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100216222108900.DBEB51C00089@mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <2CB10050387E4FF795AD89F0B812F4E8@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Cc: "John Hudson" <jh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <ECDFEEF713E1424ABF1F572BD55E33B1@AGB> In-Reply-To: <ECDFEEF713E1424ABF1F572BD55E33B1@AGB> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100216-1, 16/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054b7b1ab87b22 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who called the station .. 500/500 qrt round 2200hrs=20 (No rx 3566 as intended . slight problem)=20 73 - G ..=20 From: Graham=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:00 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: John Hudson=20 Subject: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566=20 GB4FPR will be operating later on to day to this evening=20 502 tx xtal control=20 RX - 501>504 & 3566 +/- =20 Pls take look=20 Tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3DContent-Ty= pe> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP:= 15px" id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 CanvasTab= Stop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area"> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Thanks to  all who called the&nb= sp; station=20 ..  500/500</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>qrt round  2200hrs </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>(No rx 3566 as intended . slight=  =20 problem) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>73 - G .. </FONT></DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma"> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.f= snet.co.uk href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">Graham</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:00 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org href=3D"mail= to:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Djh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk href=3D"mailt= o:jh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk">John Hudson</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>GB4FPR will be operating later on to&= nbsp; day=20 to  this evening </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>502 tx xtal control </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>RX -  501>504   &am= p;  3566=20 +/-  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Pls take  look </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Tnx - G . </FONT></DIV><BR><BR> <br><br></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-ma05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA052-b5254b865f2a3c6; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B84F638000052; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbtl-0002KN-IY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbtl-0002KE-14 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:53 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>) id 1Nkbti-0003eQ-3t for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:52 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBSlsn005233 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:28:47 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:28:48 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:27:57 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: 9kHz Thread-Index: Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDD References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.112124 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA" Subject: LF: AW: 9kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55492 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b865f261afa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Rik. That's the problem. There will ever be very high voltages, even= with a 300m vertical. So, one can start the calculation by defining the= maximum allowed voltage at the antenna wire (to avoid PD). Then, with a= given C of the wire the maximum current is achieved. With the coil, that= is fixed in my case (disadvantage) but well dimensioned (high Q, advantag= e) i have to spend that parallel C that will increase the coil surrent und= thus the losses, and so on and on...=20 The alternative would be to wound a individual high L coil but this is mat= erial- and time intensive, maybe 1km of not to thin wire. If Q should be= high it may become a problem to put that coil into a car to bring it to= the field ;-) And the high voltage aspect makes it even more difficult.= So, it seems easier to me to take a smaller but available coil (85mH is= not too bad) and Cs and spend 7dB more TX power to generate the losses ;-= )=20 Yes, the small bandwith may cause additional problems. Perhaps it is an id= ea to inject the power by an inductive coupled primary coil, like in a tes= la transformer. Then one could resonate the system at the low voltage inpu= t...=20 Tomorrow i will get such a coil and will measure the impedance and Q @ 8,9= kHz. In a next step i will resonate it (at home, without an antenna) and= look which power is needed to achieve 20kV rms, and what will happen with= the Cs! Then i will built a class D PA for abt 100...300W at 12V (2x 2x= IRF1405 or so. FETs will be driven with my DDS-VFO and a suitable driver,= like ICL7667...). I will report here then...=20 What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-)=20 73, Stefan=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 10:48 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: 9kHz Stefan, did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may= indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in= the 50..100 Ohm range. Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would= increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just= performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additiona= l losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses= ). But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q =3D 250 for the= loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large pa= rallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher= losses. Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this. Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm) 1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q =3D 250 th= e coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result= in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA= trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W. 2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q =3D 25= 0 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would= result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loadi= ng coil would be 2.1A (=3D 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna curr= ent (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB. In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significant= ly, making it difficult to tune. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optim= istic way, just like children are dreamers! We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could= start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not don= e yet.=20 =20 On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO ov= er 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? =20 Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and= he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe= i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys= are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... =20 Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next lis= tening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this= would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: =20 The wire has abt 580pF I can get a air coil with L=3D85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance= abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (i= f it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. So, if f=3D8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some= 470pF/40kV Cs, no problem) The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, tha= t means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the= region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of= abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be= 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage= across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... =20 If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reac= hed with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be ex= pected on a sunday morning? :-) =20 73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjELAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEACQAAAEFXOiA5a0h6AFgCAQWAAwAO AAAA2gcCABkADAAbADkABABgAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAwAHAAwAAQAWAEBCYABACEAAAA5OERC QjVGQjQ3RDhBRjQwOTJBMTVENDM3MjhBMjdGNgBMBwEDkAYAVBkAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQC3 CI+UDbbKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1G SUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNTExMjg0OFotMTEwNAAAAB4ASQABAAAACQAAAExGOiA5a0h6AAAA 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([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:39:00 +0000 From: Chris Trayner <C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk> To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:39:00 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5ZUkK4lKg318RVyWaYiyELIIdAAAN3CQ Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514b82c16713e6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fier= ce in Cook Strait. :-) Well, then: you have automatically generated QRSSSS weather forecasts. 73, Chris G4OKW --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-mic= rosoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word= " xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"ht= tp://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii= "> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Calibri; =09panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{mso-style-priority:99; =09color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{mso-style-priority:99; =09color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; =09color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault =09{mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'color:#= 1F497D'>> </span>The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce in Cook Strait. :-) <br> <br> <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Well, then: you have automatically generated= QRSSSS weather forecasts.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>73,<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Chris G4OKW<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE021-5ea64b7042c926b; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:58:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7142F380001DE; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:58:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeWvL-0000tE-KC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeWvL-0000t5-8u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from mizuho.unixgeeks.ca ([65.19.178.165] helo=li5-165.localdomain) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <seanc@unixgeeks.ca>) id 1NeWvI-0002np-Pw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from kana.usask.ca (kana.usask.ca [128.233.134.166]) by li5-165.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6266E37D62 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:57:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4B704265.7070904@unixgeeks.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:57:09 -0600 From: Sean Cavanaugh <seanc@unixgeeks.ca> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100120 Fedora/3.0.1-1.fc11 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002061413210.28812@plato.ucs.mun.ca> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002061413210.28812@plato.ucs.mun.ca> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b7042c83c14 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On 02/06/2010 11:59 AM, jcraig@mun.ca wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, Scott Tilley wrote: > >> Joe, What are you up to now? > > Hi Scott, > > I'm hoping you can send me some of your art work for a VX9 QSL card... > you know --the one with the X as a cross-bones and the Newfoundland > Pirate motif! Saw a real cat-o-nine tails in the museum last week, > but nobody at Industry Canada seems to have a use for it yet :-) > >> VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: >>> Has VE finally been given 2200m then? >>> > > Yes, Steve, at last! I was snooping around on the Indusstry Canada > trying to find our joint report on Canadian 2200m experiments we sent them > last summer and found instead a "Canadian Table of Frequency > Allocations 9 kHz to 275 GHz (2009 Edition)" > > http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf/$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf > > > After a couple of inquiries, it does seem indeed as if Canadians are now > officially authorised to use 2200m. Horray! Excellent! I guess I better get off my backside and get my station together then! 73 Sean - VA5LF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.148]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF091-8bf94b8acfab156; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:18:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 92CAC380000B5; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlpZn-0000oW-Ta for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlpZn-0000oN-HX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: from smtp108.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.102.71]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>) id 1NlpZl-0001ZE-Fa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: (qmail 23072 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2010 20:17:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=1G/ttjEqqGpPbNrbkzls3Pskftc25tBt87aL1m1P+79AMMtrD2f1cElBHrvNVE+Qe7ZYUKClUctC/fq8r8qsA2rpJd50Dt1Z85ktmYRElnh+98lcTxXT8pLR4hjpLeMryA/E8Bhyw1GqaX+/jRH3JF5eLLavz80C4xBt19/TooU= ; Received: from host86-140-79-113.range86-140.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.140.79.113 with login) by smtp108.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 12:17:07 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: rD.xpUEVM1lZpYz4RfFXv.ZJpwVrtxpdwzNKh3bRl8ouoBiyibWwbQqBGY8VZ9U9p3RQ.xdNhlUbeeUOL78BBXQ2.lQTCxJUSfDnXVdKItgJ8vIoIf4WEhA9LkWe_fF3gKEiRed77XBLwk6EpQRtFZZyqRripvhTN.7AL_RlPndg1k9UCVoqhMwStAW3zSyxsbvkcs5WR9dOaEYw_OHCl8H__YFSoQXQOUqXtKfzVg5GKpe1V3JyicHwHfZ83Z.tgmQZV3ivQR8XDiAp67pTBOR8Nqf6q6XY8xUeyrBs2AbFwqZY14lwO1d_MtPxnoizGtr9eMfi6i8HRtoJVa_Shan1.3neoAICfYyJlthduUJNIGaVUGYuAPPATmR5gYf2aAEYGgp3mX_90SkF2r.SPdytdPEHyGrChAIRYCqxKvo8_fl85PmCPg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:03 -0000 Message-ID: <082E380968FA412F86094FF6EA988B27@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acq4sv1ZJAcORVKPQHqJLo/bzkeZpw== DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b8acfa965a2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. Has anyone had any experience using the PA0RDT Mini Whip on 9kHz? 73s Ken M0KHW ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"u= rn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/RE= C-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-asc= ii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-compose; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:windowtext;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi All.<o:p></o:p></span><= /font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Has anyone had any experie= nce using the PA0RDT Mini Whip on 9kHz?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></= font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>73s<o:p></o:p></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ken<o:p></o:p></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>M0KHW<o:p></o:p></span></f= ont></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC032-a8dc4b7436de38f; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:57:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B695B3800047F; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcK7-0000BQ-M8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcK7-0000BG-9S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NfcK4-0003LY-Rd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so52162bwz.29 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:55:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=pZcvS+SCsiCZ63MdT31rfOBrR2VRG8LZTGsyyLtp7Mk=; b=oCllbzzN81/nIMOOHXNUejiM1dnp4wrdWJcp3MPqh9XoMktN07j3oQ2yIfMO0IpbVA UkD4leVDaxB/yxRNEkDCPTbLccN3RI7s2rRj2mtKWq0XoFbQmMqUqZps+Bv+sSG7pd9g 5uvw6ODTwwE85G6S1eJg6l/nm4apcc9Bdy09c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=w3m8Ehpcn+v4Gvcca0+z2TVT6caqTYej1bMaRcHJegwJc6kg9zKHonr8FDhW04o2rV n9g760G/e6bqRlOc520JFKxGz5Idgcaf4wEhHcGVPc8j2vVxY9ptqa+UnUIaRfbrFyXZ BwkoLW3X0/bHnGSJaVXW8j5cAWJAMn3UpJMjU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.207 with SMTP id u15mr54570bkd.187.1265907317540; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:55:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:14 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002110855p2053bd32q96f3bb0b4aadb6fe@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d221.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b7436c00d8c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well done Dom. Looking forward to a (none too fast) CW QSO as soon as you are ready. Don't forget WSPR too - very useful for assessing the station's capability. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 15:02, Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Dom. Looking forward to a (none too fast) CW QSO as soon as you= are ready.<br><br>Don't forget WSPR too - very useful for assessing= the station's capability.<br><br>73s<br>Roger G3XBM<br><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"> On 11 February 2010 15:02, Dominic Baines <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D= "mailto:dominic.baines@gmail.com">dominic.baines@gmail.com</a>></span>= wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px sol= id rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi all,<br> <br> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.<br> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.<br> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso<br> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.<br> Will focus on CW initially.<br> <br> 72<br> <br> Dom<br> M1KTA<br> <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br><a href=3D"http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br><a href=3D"= http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a href=3D"http://ww= w.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.14]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB031-85ef4b83fe3ce8; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:11:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7BBBE380004C2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:08:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxI9-0001mT-6J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxI8-0001mK-PS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:20 +0000 Received: from mailout.toya.net.pl ([217.113.224.27] ident=postfix) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <sq7mpj@toya.net.pl>) id 1NjxI6-0004u1-Ak for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:20 +0000 Received: from mail.toya.net.pl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144ED20000599 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [10.3.148.9]) (Authenticated sender: unimlyn) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F354920000595 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B83FD34.3030402@toya.net.pl> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:16 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgTcWCeW5hcnNraQ==?= <sq7mpj@toya.net.pl> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000906000307090600030708" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b83fd8a00c7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------000906000307090600030708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mal hamilton wrote: > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the > novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are > still going strong. > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the > fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr > etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Mal, LF group, you did not mention PSK31 (why?) - this mode definitely gained permanent accepatance among radioamateur community as it can be easily seen observing the bands through the last decade. G3PLX, indeed, made a very good job! The varicode is based on a Morse alphabet idea , it does offer a 'live' qso , you do not have to be 'connected' ( arq, etc... ) with respect to its speed, self-synchronization it is really comparable to CW ( in some way , of course) and , again, you did not mention this mode - was it by chance or by design ? :) Oh, BTW .. speaking about the appliance operators - it looks like they got a new 'toy': http://www.southgatearc.org/news/february2010/ros.htm Piotr, sq7mpj qth: lodz /jo91rs/ --------------000906000307090600030708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content=3D"text/html;charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type"> <title> mal hamilton wrote:
Observations indicate that data mod= e acty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty ar= e data but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.

Mal, LF group,
you did not mention=C2=A0 PSK31=C2=A0 (why?) =C2=A0 - this mode=C2=A0 defi= nitely gained permanent accepatance among=C2=A0 radioamateur community
as it can be easily seen observing=C2=A0 the bands through the last decade= .=C2=A0 G3PLX, indeed, made a very good job!=C2=A0 The varicode is based on=C2=A0=
a Morse alphabet=C2=A0 idea , it does offer a 'live' qso , you do not have to be 'connected' ( arq, etc... )=C2=A0 with respect to its speed, self-synchronization
it is really comparable to CW ( in some way , of course)=C2=A0 and , again= , you did not mention=C2=A0 this mode - was it by chance or by design ?=C2= =A0 :)

Oh, BTW .. speaking about the appliance operators -=C2=A0 it looks like th= ey got a new 'toy':

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/february2010/ros.= htm

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Piotr,=C2=A0 sq7mpj
qth: lodz /jo91rs/

--------------000906000307090600030708-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b6f6bed3a7; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:42:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9B5DC380001D9; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIbo-0006ru-Hm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIbo-0006rl-6v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeIbm-0005bF-45 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqoEALf6bktZ8ICx/2dsb2JhbACNDQPJP4RUBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,424,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="439038619" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([89.240.128.177]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 08 Feb 2010 01:39:39 +0000 Message-ID: <001201caa85f$9670ba10$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:39:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Yankee thunder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b6f6beb1012 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on 500. Where have they gone? mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on= 500. Where=20 have they gone?
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.16]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA041-85e64b89da3a3b3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 158A238000085; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlZEW-0006HL-7U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlZEV-0006HC-Ks for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:15 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc4-s33.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.111.172]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlZET-00087z-MH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:15 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W14 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s33.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:50:06 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: , , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:50:06 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 02:50:06.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC3BA450:01CAB820] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_" Subject: LF: XPQ qrt X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41104b89da380fa7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE2XPQ Wasilla Palmer Alaska is now off air on 600m until I return back to= Alaska later in the year - thanks for the reports -very promising. The sy= stem will remain on receive and under remote control from Oklahoma.=20 =20 Sweet FA Ive not heard FA NDB on 510kHz since Ive been back so not sure if it is QR= V - using the steerable array I dont even detect its carrier at the moment= . More RF building to do for more esoterical modes but we made good progre= ss especially given the wx. Ill be back to Part 15 activities in Bartlesvi= lle - =20 Cheers Laurence KL 1X BP51IP Enroute Okie.. =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE2XPQ Wasilla Palmer Alaska is now off air on 600m until I return back to= Alaska later in the year - thanks for the reports -very promising. The sy= stem will remain on receive and under remote control from Oklahoma.
 
Sweet FA
Ive not heard FA NDB on 510kHz since Ive been back so not sure if it= is QRV - using the steerable array I dont even detect its carrier at the= moment. More RF building to do for more esoterical modes but we made good= progress especially given the wx. Ill be back to Part 15 activities in Ba= rtlesville -
 
Cheers
Laurence KL 1X BP51IP Enroute Okie..
 
 

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich= email service. Get it now. =3D --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b8131f92fb; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:15:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D9F838000045; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjBdX-0006XU-T4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjBdX-0006XL-BD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: from smtp829.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.189.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjBdV-0002c4-72 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 89059 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=BJWiSJuckwgl1FhS07v5YWsdzGApCUa1lyngnyP1e9/YIFYQ1hpk8tRKe4CBNW2P+qs4mfk4zNQo9VuqGaONgymc0U0m0/uzqQ7BV5azs8u5HsNVX6mBUPx1GN7f1dfc9L0w3QEifLZmoF5B0nlNOg7jVlsOqqZgKeQ1imEkGis= ; Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp829.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: Heytlx0VM1neFiuqGhoAhN6kmBt8ycJuTOYdYcMLp9jNfs.utK1zDQxn57Kz.TXpsy_3mdXd2iFUtj5urdpy.cntw_8JUmBZxw_Kr1Rr52bHSq9NVphYD1Nf1Z4Sb4ynRfpRvN5CerbUMvnHZKrqOchq.ueyeuFEiVe5bEBV6l7CnCAJ0SPFnKnrcqXcyJWSpdlVAPtLEQz1NyZdubDxC_QKi9UCMSccnPRUri3aodyMk7F1dUzHFUFIfFAbBeLL_16fBOXY4dkOdzouEbUqXwyOV479VsBXqe5YyOM13Q-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <34CF82CF74154AE681236612A1810382@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b8131f7797a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, In case anyone else is interested, I put the mods I did some time ago to the original "Softrock Lite" kits for 136k and 500k on the UK500KHZ group "files" page at http://uk500khz.googlegroups.com/web/Softrock_136_500_v2.bmp. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Tilley" To: Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:36 AM Subject: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well > documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of > effort would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b69dd0c2f7; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:31:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 397A038000225; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclrP-0006cX-2W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclrO-0006cO-Lr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:02 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NclrM-0002ne-P2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:02 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KTxAZ019898 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:30:00 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:29:59 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:28:53 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE1@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE1@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wABAMnPAAB2blw= References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.201221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b69dd0a007d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, pse do not stop, i try to increase the wire length... Just 20 min... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Stefan Sch=E4fer Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 21:15 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: AW: Re: test signal wanted Oh, it's Jim/M0BMU! Tnx Jim. But still difficult here. My Loop is still no= t here so i cannot compare it with the E-field ant... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von rn3agc Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 20:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is jus= t 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screens= hots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjwUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWdu YWwgd2FudGVkAAQJAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFQAcADUAAwBPAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABUAHQA7 AAMAVgEBCYABACEAAAA4MzE3MjU1OTgzOTYwNjQyODM1RERCREEzNTg5RUZGNQAcBwEDkAYAOBEA ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAPje2AD6XKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMyMDI5NTlaLTMzOAAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWduYWwgd2FudGVkAABAAE4A1fA1pw2lygEeAFoAAQAAACMA 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PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAA AwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJ AAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAAdAAAAc2NoYWVmZXJAaHN0LnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZQAAAAAeADhAAQAA AAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAA AwAGEO2JTVkDAAcQBwMAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABKSU0sUFNFRE9OT1RT VE9QLElUUllUT0lOQ1JFQVNFVEhFV0lSRUxFTkdUSEpVU1QyME1JTlZPTjpPV05FUi1SU0dCTEZH Uk9VUEBCTEFDS1NIRUVQT1JHSU1BVUZUUkFHVk9OAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4 ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUFFMUBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5p ay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AADGjg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-md06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD062-8b894b7709af226; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:21:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2E211380000B1; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:21:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgOSl-0006wX-S9 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgOSl-0006wO-DF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgOSj-0002bc-Fg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so2001342pzk.30 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=sHZ83w2GKxrFPg2rgYhWR+n+JM7Y72Z8RhdlWxlCMDM=; b=aEk+nBMEPKYHp/ttNDvs3TcI4d+Wx1HV/9YKp4kjRLLRt7BPGmbj5dqW64uyF8w6yE 2yo24H3rbppibsVp4ChwWm91F7e8eEb9FSy0WcjMMtE1kEO/UaskKmV0F3n+WgZ/7TND f3nr00GZxNN69Vwz1ZXOIn6FzmJdfOd02Didw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=fJ5fp0vrS0N6saEgn19rgJnxq07Lv4Mz6ABF2R1rxPGTxyH0Ek4VstXJ5hJqOPfqOh 1Icd1gZVYaouxLMW4y6QCrBwnBad5zsURsvZk6zy1ZIdRvLpahJbTocOfKbgHVhNtVui d7pQSERB7NWS2GGDPWA9/7/mAsevtdb46Kqts= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.187.7 with SMTP id o7mr2132321rvp.35.1266092365340; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b52abf4f8b02a959 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m254.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b7709ae5009 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF, Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency. Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.
--000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.202]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF072-5efb4b80552bad; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:33:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 40371380000AB; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwvx-0003OC-4B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwvw-0003O3-Oc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:16 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Niwvt-0001fT-GA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:16 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B2B30017 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from 58-178-124-188.rev.pro-internet.pl [188.124.178.58] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id bGWGKE; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 Message-ID: <010c01cab274$277749c0$3ab27cbc@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: Cc: , "Stephen Ayling" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 60 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Special Event Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ca4b80552a719f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stieve, Rudolf, Jacek, Marco, Veit,. LF Group! Many thanks for nice 7 QRSS/CW QSO on 137kHz band in last night: SO5AS, OK1DTN, SQ5BPF, DL7ET and DL7PC. Specjal evening SN0JH foto gallery in ammunition lab: http://www.sp2kds.pl/galeria-morfeo/view/49.html Link to Friday's LF activity: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=pl%7Cen&u=http://www.sp 2kds.pl/136khz/293-pitkowa-aktywno-sn0jh-na-136khz.html&twu=1&client=tmpg Vy 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-ma06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA061-b5284b8ab33a2de; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6E463380000BD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlngb-0007i9-0b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlnga-0007i0-Fc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:12 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlngY-0000te-BM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:12 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAHJBiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNG4Idi2RzuEiEewQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="441204540" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:14:58 +0000 Message-ID: <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:14:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b8ab3385664 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not= have a sense of Humour!! mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ---- From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragem= ent. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am look= ing forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments lik= e this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the grea= ter amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind fo= r an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be= =20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Markus
It's not hard to wind these Dreamer= Boys up!!!!=20 They certainly do not have a sense of Humour!!
 
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:00=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX exper= iments this=20 sunday

Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his vie= ws, we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.<= /DIV>
 
And, best of all, it's fun.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday
=
Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like= this from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateu= r=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS fa= ce his=20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
>= Do not=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
> =
>=20 G3KEV
>  .....
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.75]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME024-8ba74b6f30613db; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:28:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 47597380000F4; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEew-0005S3-VV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEew-0005Rr-Ci for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeu-0004MB-UE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207212707.GXCT4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:07 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeo-0006BH-FU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:07 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:04 -0000 Message-ID: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOs+4pG5fLK1KQ/mK5bate1dURwAAV9HA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=muALTcs-kaip6iyYOqsA:9 a=tjLBK9E9j6IA8t3EFfwA:7 a=3J6FvnBtg6_3VTEEX1FElILxI6IA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=Eth9jgxsVxnzP8A9:21 a=K7NE5lk6stKOdHLw:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=WaWwPF6wP_KOPVdIE4wA:9 a=F3DvgAR8nku3hkdhdEUA:7 a=MB1d7RG0ElaiZthRKtWe6iNkVGsA:4 a=7IHv232upLn_88w9:21 a=qgRuVFJqg_lSGvHU:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4b6f305f36ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 21:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great, have rep= lied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!)  

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

26 Birch Close<= o:p>

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds=

SG18 9NR

 

T +44= (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 21:15
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.

 

211100  4  -20  0.1   &nb= sp;2 32 *      G4WGT G7NKS IO92          1   0&nb= sp;

 

Gary.

On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Sorry I knocked= the VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rs= gb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0
202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *
202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


 

------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b68ba6e31e; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:51:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A0F9138000090; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcSVR-0008KV-E7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcSVQ-0008KM-PT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:04 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcSVN-00031H-Qn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:04 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o12NnwB7006618 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:49:59 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:50:00 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:50:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Thread-Index: AcqjaNK1L2/hHZzzQ2STNL88qEl0ogA9pDMi References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.2.233324 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565" Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b68ba6c1cfa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Ken,=20 =20 Tnx for your statement. Well, i am not an expert in optic links and the pa= rts i choose are probably not the best, that are available for this applic= ation.=20 =20 Theese parts were available for me and they are suitable in principle, alt= hough the attenuation may be some dB less. Today i measured the gain of a= single BF862 in a preamp application for LF and i calculated a voltage ga= in of 26dB. Well, in that case it is not so important for me if the cable= has 3dB loss or 0,03dB loss. The main aspect is, that the local noise is= decoupled. Because if it is not decoupled, the SNR can quickly decrease= by more than 20dB, as i saw. And 3dB losses are not 3dB less SNR. =20 Perhaps the transmission system can be improved by using special parts. Bu= t are they available for everyone (private, not commercial customers) and= are they in a range below 5EUR? Perhaps you can tell me/us a more suitabl= e type of cable that is perhaps even cheeper?=20 The parts i use in the moment have no special mounting. The fiber optic ca= ble is just cut with a gripper and stuck plugged in the housing of the LED= , thats all. And it can be done many times, thats important... =20 So, do you have an idea of better parts that are cheep and available, with= variable length of the cable, so not preassembled? :-) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Ken Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:56 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at 1300= nm or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What optical wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If you ar= e using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be high= , the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the fibr= e, ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibre ma= y be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduce attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode. In= the 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning optic= al line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-) ),= so rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less than 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DCF39= in the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less noise. So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise, probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the RX. The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already ordered some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s of years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no proble= m for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier with= in the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA) but this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sensitiv= e RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to wor= ry any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/house= to the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise on th= e RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, includin= g the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEARAAAAEFXOiBMRjogMm5kIHRyeSBv ZiBzZW5kaW5nIHRoZSBwaWMgb2YgbXkgbG9vcCBwcmVhbXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIAGhYBBYAD AA4AAADaBwIAAwAAADIAAAADABsBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAAAyAAAAAwAbAQEJgAEAIQAAADgy MzQwQUQ1MjkwMENBNEJBM0EwRDdBRjhGOTYyMTNDAC0HAQOQBgBUHgAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5 AGUVsm5ipMoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDts PUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwMjIzNTAwMFotMjg4AAAAHgBJAAEAAABEAAAAUmU6IExGOiAy bmQgdHJ5IG9mIHNlbmRpbmcgdGhlIHBpYyBvZiBteSBsb29wIHByZWFtcCB3aXRoIHRoZSBCRjg2 MgBAAE4AgOzQ6mejygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu b3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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(Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nisj0-0000Q9-S1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:02:43 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so781319bwz.4 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:02:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=XVoBXaqSl3GUlokA87+nFCVayOmKip7G2Skk8WKiGjY=; b=co3q2FqNsKPSj+BPXE6mzlfAG7Cfv11h5ab1WGXSk4btvILOk/bFYsk9qx0fa/YXWf 1QSsdDFlFSQQNsNt1BlmhVvMVWYDKQMFd4vYQBVOkjTul0EExbdW0yqHIr/wLS72DGCu X8m51WQnqrZoQ0X5+p58GK1ekldiKyHcx7wXA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BGNzmZ0uhj5VaizYq7ZTsrXHqAjAk95fkf3gUJUDuxPZ88RS06tUt/a1p6wG9R1bf6 Ohc72AP7ITx2Gd7JBN46BQolRT9mPDWitSbmuhpMWuGWFrrG+HXbTcH1ab57AiEL4afI qiS4K7NBfV6cG/9zdycRSycc4Q3XLLPFZn1Sk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr1823536bkk.206.1266685350797; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:02:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> References: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:02:30 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002200902w2f0d9c68h91b4e843da6f47f9@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m263.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b8015f07df6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horst, You may be interested in my web page about amateur communications below 10kHz. Have you tried grounded electrode pairs and "earth mode" through-the-ground conduction/induction communications? Attenuation is inversely proportional to distance cubed (near field) so more power will help a great deal. I have yet to repeat my own experiments made some years ago, but this time with a mode like WSPR or QRSS, but I suspect that even with just a few watts my range would be considerably further than my 0.3km= s. See http://sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz and do look at the attached .pdf paper (see bottom of the web page) on the subject written so= me years ago by G0AKN (now a silent key). 73s Roger G3XBM On 20 February 2010 16:39, Horst St=F6cker wrote: > Hello, > > some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz > were issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the > Bundesnetzagentur has confirmed last year. > > Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79 kH= z. PA > is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4 Oh= m > into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m top > capacity and poor ground. > > Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS)= . > Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses. > > The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an cit= y > environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a > better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can > make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city the= ODX > ;-)) surely can be improved. > > The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using groun= d > antennas vor TX, RX or both. > > vy73 Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horst,

You may be interested in my web page about amateur communica= tions below 10kHz. Have you tried grounded electrode pairs and "earth= mode" through-the-ground conduction/induction communications? Attenu= ation is inversely proportional to distance cubed (near field) so more pow= er will help a great deal. I have yet to repeat my own experiments made so= me years ago, but this time with a mode like WSPR or QRSS, but I suspect= that even with just a few watts my range would be considerably further= than my 0.3kms.

See http:= //sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz and do look at the attache= d .pdf paper (see bottom of the web page) on the subject written some year= s ago by G0AKN (now a silent key).

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 20 February 20= 10 16:39, Horst St=F6cker <horst.stoecker@web.de> wrote:
Hello,

some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz we= re issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the Bundes= netzagentur has confirmed last year.

Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79 kHz.= PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4= Ohm into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m= top capacity and poor ground.

Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS).= Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses.<= br>
The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an city= environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a= better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city th= e ODX ;-)) surely can be improved.

The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using ground= antennas vor TX, RX or both.

vy73 Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber= 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkt= e.web.de/go/02/




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC031-85ff4b7d038d398; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:08:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 17CED38000056; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:08:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2LQ-0001Z5-Fl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2LQ-0001Yw-44 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2LN-0006OA-7i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY100JS75B1JU@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:32 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4A64963B847E44CD845276EA2FB089EB@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 18-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55179 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b7d038b3660 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw)" --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All, nice capture XKO, Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 18-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello All,
nice capture XKO,
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 18-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw)-- --Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="XKO 18-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="XKO 18-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAb8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBggH/8QAGAEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfk6SH2YasThiahKMcru11Mla6apqwhp oo2JLJRQYrsIxlVAbC7YJUOUKyrI4DdKlgQqhRSBAEDC5EsGFmF6L9Eed/RHC95JOWpJCSQ8 eSh9OHADKGNSEVrooSoKGVNxqoqxmBGDdhpg0J2spgMEGtuB0N7DGohgZuFVHGAJcvKjI6Vc KlnTTGOxiiCoKWdT0L549Icr2UqcdXKhcqzx5JPXjIxXKDi2m41aIO22iqtqenOOu5vBdBZe BNMssSjOxUXDFQgCuobu+fLTdloTOiy+NrLpdZryrt0cew32TyZm7wsIa6/S6cY36dMR0Who 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(post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1394138000058; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrf4-0000Ba-VK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrf4-0000BR-Jn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njrf2-0001Rz-Jh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA0048BHEREX@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:06:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:06:24 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <031602D5D7714A7BA932F3FDB0A0669D@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XGJ 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HUY+N626IaTG60pgQj9I0Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b83a8f70924 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_HUY+N626IaTG60pgQj9I0Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g)" --Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Warren,LF Capture XGJ Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XGJ 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Warren,LF
Capture XGJ
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XGJ 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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1NjgVy-0005XU-9G for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgVx-0005XL-L2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:29 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgVv-00060L-2e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:29 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MMCOJo007013 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:25 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:24 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:24 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaF References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.220056 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762" Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8301961b93 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jacek and group,=20 =20 That are really interesting responses here. That's what i like in this gro= up! =20 Well, perhaps it is not necessary to reach a "DX", DX becomes very relativ= e in that frequency range. 50km sounds like a really good DX here.=20 =20 But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Would= n't that be a nice tool to try what's possible, for a first step? =20 If 750m is possible with 2W TX power and 4m*14m loop then it should be pos= sible to reach some km with a grounded dipole of abt 2x500m. And if the en= ds are grounded, the impedance will decrease. Bandwidth will increase due= to the resistive end loading and the voltage over the coils will decrease= . That will depend by the end capacity and conductivity, of course. Someth= ing like a vertical loop with the second half as the earth. Maybe, if the= formula RA9MB showed is correct, it would be better not to place it on th= e ground but hung it up on some trees. Sure, everything in the near will= be lossy but that's the case at each commercial VLF transmitter as well.= The losses are simply a part of the job.=20 =20 Important is the achieved fascination, isn't it? What would you feel if yo= u would get a contact in QRSS10 to your next VLF interested neighbour, say= in 20km? I expect the biggest problem on VLF is to find a person who is= fascinated in the same manner than one self ;-) I do not know someone in= a radius of 50km who is interested :-( But i will discuss it in our club.= .. =20 BTW, why exactly choosing 8,79 kHz (Horst?)?, why not 8,9 kHz? =20 We all have a great hobby, really! =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Jacek Lipkowski Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 17:25 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS I've done some tests on VLF also, like many others on this group. For antennas i've used a 1.5m x 2.5m 3-turn loop, a 4mx14m 1-turn loop, and coupling to external structures (i won't disscuss this bit here :). Using the third antenna i can receive my vlf beacon abt 750m from here. The power was abt. 2W from a TDA2030: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/20100203/vlfcapt3747.jpg The receiving antenna was a 100turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 90cm. This loop was tuned to resonance and amplified. Using the 4x14m loop and abt. 40w from a TDA1562 i can receive it from 930m: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/capt0706082213.jpg The receiving antenna was a 50turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 80cm. This loop was connected to the amplifier virtual ground (broadband design like "easyloop"). If i remember correctly i could receive 40W into the 1.5x2.5m 3-turn loop at about 500m. Unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to play with e-field antennas, which should be much more efficient. I've noted that for b-field antennas nearby installations (power lines, phone lines etc) can carry the vlf signal far away (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AGcFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwAMABgAAQA1AQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcADAAYAAEANQEB CYABACEAAAAxRTJEOTE0NzM4RUU3MTQyODRGNkE2MzI5OEVDNkJGMwAyBwEDkAYA6BcAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQBiV10cDLTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJlOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjEyMjRaLTk2NQAAAB4ASQABAAAAJgAA AExGOiBSZTogQmVhY29uaW5nIG9uIDguNzkga0h6IGluIFFSU1MAAABAAE4AABVxtNuzygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn 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mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC074-a97e4b77945e5b; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:12:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41B72380000A4; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:12:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgXhT-0000yP-Aw for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgXhT-0000yG-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:23 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgXhQ-00024P-Dt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:22 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A8730003 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.21]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Marcin?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <426793dd.10ebb627.4b779405.4fae9@go2.pl> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:17 +0100 X-Originator: 188.124.178.58 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FROM_EXCESS_QP=0,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Special_Event_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b77945d01f7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Friday, February 19 from 20 UTC runs a Special Event Station SN0JH on= 136kHz band. This will be the only day of activities SN0JH on LF. QRG: 137.700 and 137.777 kHz QSL card via SP2KDS 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC084-a98e4b82af9b356; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 645B4380000FC; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb3W-000296-EE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb3V-00028x-SW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:45 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.145]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njb3R-0002zc-Ra for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:45 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so120669qwf.16 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:22:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G25gInMjri8jjM0nsvJf7p1VPohb6iIHuMR2ZhfwFFY=; b=eBt3pI9bID++jZGHSELgg5K358QpOhnwIy+nZHSQIBDW4IIHnDdNKBRnBCZgyWMfTy KUyQPhGAFEZVxO7FGTlLvx3hB/oC27t3M3lnAKKsqPl4XnDgUVo0DrX0GtT8o9kZn3eJ NUyxo2gKEOlC6Csg1lwN9wzPvKJER/W4B5umc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IdA1vbCzm5KLL0/SKYSALUSyWb2VkuMxnPrG4txxYxipsVpWh3HHP9ZCTlE7fyeZiO Vx54OCVb9L3pOcGhLhZrahtbpoc77pt9Hp+X4F38fhJfkXhkV8ys5536As2uK6wMwshN 4oNi5u491nJZvQRgvKOMiE4IE+7sg357DdZA8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.89.194 with SMTP id f2mr548086qam.350.1266855751806; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:22:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:22:31 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d264.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b82af966fa0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA = wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to= contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time= maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remembe= r was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wo= rthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE064-5eb94b748e4aa6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:10:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E22FD380000BD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfi9h-0002oP-Ny for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfi9h-0002oG-E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfi9f-00062s-FH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1BN8tDJ031961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:38:55 -0330 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:38:55 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b748e48002d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Many thanks for the capture. 73 Joe VO1NA On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 11-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj08.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.92]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b8a23e93af; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:06:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 120B738000052; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nle92-0001iM-7c for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nle91-0001iD-R2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:55 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nle8y-0006Tu-Gb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:55 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.195]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1S84dK4026126 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:39 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 44D53E000085 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c34b8a23975d73 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: WPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b04b8a23e71096 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning Lubos, LF, the interfering signal was also quite strong here: http://www.alice-ds= l.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg. It was due to a QRSS-3 transmissi= on from OE5ODL, using a slightly drifting transmitter. I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid extended beacon transmissions= in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be willing to move to the "Eu= slot", if only there were more active grabbers, also from the America= n side. Have a nice sunday, Markus ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: _RSGB_LF=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:47 AM Subject: LF: WPF Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crosse= d by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know,= what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the= city. The signal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good morning Lubos, LF,
 
the interfering signal was also quit= e strong=20 here: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using= a slightly=20 drifting transmitter.
 
I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He= would be=20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were mo= re active=20 grabbers, also from the American side.
 
Have a nice sunday,
Markus
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:47=20 AM
Subject: LF: WPF

Hello LF!
I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as us= ual.=20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclos= ure. Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiv= er outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise.

73!

Lubos,= =20 OK2BVG

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D
= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.13]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME022-8ba54b8a8289ca; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:49:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 08F49380000E0; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:49:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlkRj-0005QA-Jj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlkRj-0005Q1-4F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlkRg-0008Ay-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SEmOrg013524 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00231 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:53:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:53:05 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:48:28 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b8a828773f8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) MNI TNX Markus. Thus noise level on 9 kHz can be expected abt 1.3*SQRT(1/0.063) = 5.2 uV/m in 1 Hz by this data. Essentually less then Jim mesured. Thus Stefans sigs with 20 kV on kite ANT should be detectable at 100 km (2.5 uV/m) at least in qrss90. Another way of calculation yelds the samilar result: Stefan's power expected abt 1 mW. 1000 times more then your 1 uW. Then distance should be SQRT(1000)=30 times more. 6km * 30 = 180 km. Certanly at 100 km there should be some influence of ionosphere. But seems it is not very strong yet. Besides good fact is that ionosphere should increase sigs not decrease. It is pity Stefan can not radiate today. But let's look forward. On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:06:35 +0100 > From: Markus Vester > Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > Dear Alexander, LF, > > the frequency rulers of the modified Argo are actually correct, and you can see how I reduced the bandwidth when going further away. The minimum setting was 90 second dots, giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when running at 4x normal samplerate (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) . > > The marginal "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thus the noise level (including spherics) would have been on the order of 15 dBuV/m/sqrtHz. > > Best 73, > Markus, DF6NM > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander S. Yurkov > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:33 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > > On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating > > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m > > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the laptop > > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screenshot, > > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patched for > > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range > > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. > > Dear Markus, > In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=1uW D=6km > yelds E=1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. But we > should normalyze this to bandwith. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-a97c4b6df29e106; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:52:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 353ED38000128; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:52:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdtUH-0006ZY-4a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdtUG-0006ZP-Fh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:48 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdtUE-0007PD-4q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:48 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o16Moivs012419 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:50:45 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:50:44 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:50:43 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: active ant on metallic mast Thread-Index: AcqnLBzyrShBW58pQ76YPb9JbK7HfgAGwooBAAb2dyAABTAOeA== References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.6.223623 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9" Subject: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b6df29d29ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Victor,=20 =20 Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design or al= so with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28V?= I assume +-14V, right? ;-) Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically") apart= from the house? =20 "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decrea= sed, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases and the infl= uence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus the inpu= t voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the same. An= d if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visible sig= nal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noisele= vel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be a noise sour= ce in the near of the shed, isn't it? =20 I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2 UKW var= iable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends when= it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful but= interesting ;-) =20 You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse, when yo= u go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that? Or is= the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) =20 Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that conversation= and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the best= signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p.= =20 =20 Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contact to= VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the lon= gest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal :-) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@online.nl Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hello Stefan,Roelof, =20 for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The ante= nna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height betw= een 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low= output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and high= er output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.= At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from local= mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I repla= ced the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same po= tential as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre ch= anges things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws= 120mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, =20 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namen= s Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast =20 =20 Hi Roelof, LF, =20 Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question!= "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a signa= l but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the ap= plication is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, the= capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be very= high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element= (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm so= urces? I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comp= arale i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) =20 A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since in= a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just= a few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen,= when the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element= (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in= the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one= has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a= short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that= is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground pl= ane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignorin= g the local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? =20 On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active antenna= mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy= bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active elemen= t since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length= was still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal= ! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? =20 I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through th= e ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy envir= onment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m= up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even= without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by mo= re gain but SNR decreases, of course. =20 What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same= "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 =20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pl= ay with ;-) =20 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted =20 =20 Hello Stefan, =20 Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't wo= rk=20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a=20 suitable mast. =20 73, Roelof, pa0rdt =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAJAAAAEFXOiBSRTogYWN0aXZlIGFu dCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AP8LAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAYAFwAyACsABgBjAQEggAMADgAAANoH AgAGABcAMgArAAYAYwEBCYABACEAAAA3RTUxNjgyQjQ0QzMzODQ1ODk5RkEyQUZEODIyNTg4OQAe BwEDkAYAFCYAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQC5Q2HQfqfKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFH AAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDYyMjUwNDNaLTQ0 MgAAAB4ASQABAAAAJAAAAExGOiBSRTogYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AEAATgCA PPIEZafKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIB WwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxh 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air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF082-5eff4b7f05572b9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:40:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DB63938000354; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaZF-0006op-AI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaZE-0006og-S9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiaZC-0002wA-9o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BCC5F000C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4deebfc4.7d1417b.4b7f0504.749e3@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:16 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b7f05541191 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marco Crosband QSO 136kHz/80m no problem. One moment. We ending random two way= QSO with SO5AS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b85558d1e9; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E59DB3800009B; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKCd-0006Hc-7i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKCc-0006HT-RF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:10 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKCa-0005ew-5Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:10 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F24F7B8047 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFF931E702 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:33:19 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9IAAEY8GAAAIA5xA== Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, ,<38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b8555817a67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Chris, the values are measrued with antenna in resonance, so they are "ohmic". It is the sume of all kind of losses (soil, greenery, coil) and (almost ne= glectable) the radiation resistance. 73, Rik ON7YD ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: woensdag 24 februari 2010 17:23 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Hi Rik and others, Thanks for your contribution. > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH: 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm Do you mean resistance in the strict sense, i.e. the resistive component= of impedance; or in the rough sense, i.e. the ratio between voltage and= current, which is actually the modulus of impedance? I ask because there are capacitance and capacitance-like effects in the gr= ound. If you are looking at (in effect) a resistance in series with a capa= citance, that could explain the 1/f effect. Regards, Chris G4OKW PS - more details can be found in Keller, G.V. & Frishcknecht, F.C. / Elec= trical Methods in Geoprospecting / Pergamon (1966). See in particular chap= 1 - or probably skim it, as it is detailed and can get a bit boring. Pp.= 43-55 talk about these capacitive-like effects. The size of the 'capacita= nce' (capacitance, not its reactance!) even varies with frequency. If you= look at the graph on p.52 you may need to reach for a bottle of the stron= g stuff ;-) ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b745a10ef; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:27:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 55F22380002B3; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:27:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfefb-0001IV-01 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfefa-0001IM-JK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:46 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfefY-0004Y6-9O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:46 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1BJPfjF013481 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:42 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:41 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:40 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Fiber optic components Thread-Index: AcqrRrkQsEv1ZWMBQMq4dW1uSqfSmgACCV3w References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.11.191536 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5" Subject: AW: LF: Fiber optic components X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b745a0d3d46 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roelof,=20 =20 My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V (6,= 58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward cur= rent. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough, so= perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same current,= say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see the= light coming into the shack... =20 The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there.=20 =20 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, Thank you all. Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. I am not that desperate yet. These items are advertised as low cost.... I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. However these are also hard to find. I will look into it a bit further. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IioTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAEFXOiBMRjogRmliZXIgb3B0 aWMgY29tcG9uZW50cwBrCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgALABQAGQAoAAQARwEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIACwAU ABkAKQAEAEgBAQmAAQAfAAAANDBERTE3RjE4NzdCNEM5M0JBODMyNzY1NUQwNzA2AJ8GAQOQBgDo EAAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOUqbP9Pq8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIxMTE5MjU0MFotNjM0AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAfAAAAUmU6IExGOiBGaWJlciBvcHRpYyBjb21wb25lbnRzAABAAE4AAN4180SrygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01U 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AQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGEAZX8wgDAAcQLQMAAAMAEBAA AAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISVJPRUxPRixNWUhJTlRJU0hUVFA6Ly9XV1dFTFBST09S Ry9TSE9QUEhQP1A9U0ZIKzc1NytWRk9SVEhFU0ZINzU3Vig2LDU4RVVSKSxXSElDSEhBU1RIRVNB TUVXQVZFTEVOAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVF ODJBMUFGNUBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AABy pw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF094-8bfc4b82a7912d3; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:49:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CC11038000054; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:49:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaWZ-0001kr-Cf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaWY-0001ki-Tg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:42 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.149]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaWV-0002gF-2X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:42 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so114409qwf.16 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:48:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=f/uqEvRZtBKFbApTSEBVzgkJsk5m2uJE7h397sUCSZ0=; b=KwcNSdVi88xxO0B+vofTfSbykH/c7urim/RvWGrC07NrmW+Xvzkmj9Qtk71+90UatN M+ce5BLsGUSBzEpGe9WtmpsU1bZRU/hz4zaDiI7D5IaB91gWkz1cVOup3ZsGOxYGchHz qiGzqe2vtXiuXoPp4mK8Y3j04t179R3OBvuaM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=G5GGOkjnzlgAAUkoBtdQHWwn8rdd2FO7Vknj+J5p8Jt49cMXncmmE4CjTj/o0m7095 UVoynfsdAA/3NEZ6r1C5N7gveMbsR9UwlWyMMQQoeBbtakNBcCvYGguMB1u4sovJWKT+ q/enr/zalEIXoldi/cF5P3ho2QKmKV3aZQ35c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.26.78 with SMTP id d14mr6113830qac.21.1266853714952; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:48:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:34 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220748gb1054bct9728389c983b4aec@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m249.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b82a78f5fe7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Roger, Thanks for the tip on the papers. I downloaded the NATO AGARD paper from the NATO ftp site: ftp://ftp.rta.nato.int//PubFullText/AGARD/CP/AGARD-CP-529/AGARDCP529.pdf Beware that it is 42MB and the server is slow! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Roger Lapthorn = wrote: > It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to. > > Here are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and > practicalities: > > > > > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 22 February 2010 10:03, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are probab= ly >> the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these work in the >> literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on= the >> internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see >> http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal >> processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power= . >> Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes >> Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms= . >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >>> >>> Hello Horst, >>> >>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OM= s >>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to te= st. >>> >>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t >>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna towe= r. >>> There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in paralle= l. You >>> do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire >>> and nobody will care about it. >>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some tre= es >>> on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The= loop >>> has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from= 160m >>> to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a >>> problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x= 10*100m >>> on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... >>> >>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) >>> >>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial= VLF >>> stations in that range? Are there some? >>> >>> 73, Stefan >>> >>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >>> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >>> >>> >>> >>> Hallo Stefan, >>> >>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range >>> <9kHz is free. >>> >>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a >>> letter which confirmed that. >>> >>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not ne= ed >>> one. >>> >>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. >>> >>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >>> >>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >>> >>> Horst >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >>> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.224]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD083-8b924b8a66cd1e3; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:51:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4DF203800009A; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NliaR-0004Dq-Ue for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NliaQ-0004Dh-OY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:30 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NliaO-0007Tj-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:30 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.193]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SCnFB8011144 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:49:15 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 3CD74E0000A9 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:49:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:48:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c14b8a664a61c6 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60e04b8a66cb5b55 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform the gr= oup that because of much heavier winds than expected, he will not be= able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also mentioned that= the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit) will require= some more work. Kind regards, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinder.= com/forecast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a stren= ght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for= tests. That is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 100m= H but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily ha= ndle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire. The= re are several possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage,= well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this may= be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first tes= t at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and= there are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the= chance to resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate= it in the living room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry it= in my room in the first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with= 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS= VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in this= way i will be able to make a transformation of the resonated loop!(va= rying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am excited how= the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try= to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend= some time with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/DF6= NM to give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S.= Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amate= ur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of= the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs wo= uld > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't= be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big= town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure= =20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz= . There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main pr= oblem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable wi= th some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should= avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting ri= ngs' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too= high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed special= ly for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite ante= nna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical,= does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity= 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we= see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What= is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time= to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave= zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast= with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT volt= age only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the= last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
Stefan DK7FC just called me on the ph= one. He asked=20 me to inform the group that because of much heavier winds than expecte= d, he will=20 not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also= mentioned=20 that the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit= ) will=20 require some more work.
 
Kind regards,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 27,= 2010 3:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: VLF TX experimen= ts this=20 sunday becomes more probably

Dear LF group,
 
Tomorrow, the wind forec= ast is=20 excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt
It=20 is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a strenght= of=20 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tests= . That is=20 the first positive news.
 
Yesterday i got such a air coi= l. It has=20 not 85mH but even about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just abou= t 38.=20 Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum volt= age on my=20 single wire. There are several possibilities to increase the maximum= antenna=20 voltage, well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but= this may=20 be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first te= st at only=20 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-)
 
That coil= is very=20 heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and there are better= ways to=20 realisethat. But it is available i get the chance to resonate that= 100m=20 vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living room of my= parents=20 since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the first floor ;-)= It was=20 successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in ser= ies, about=20 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by anoth= er air=20 coil (in this way i will be able to make a transformation of the res= onated=20 loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am ex= cited how=20 the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-)
 <= BR>The=20 last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try to= built it=20 today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend some time= with my=20 YL. I hope that can be arranged...
 
On the hill i have= no internet=20 but i will at least inform Markus/DF6NM to give those who are intere= sted a=20 information here...
 
I have to go now, and will inform= =20 you...
 
73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org=20 im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov
Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37<= BR>An: rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org
Betreff:=20 RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?



> when back in the mid 90's the initial requ= est for a=20 longwave amateur
> segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz= ) was=20 discussed, one of the
> big telecom "bobo's" stated that they= saw no=20 harm that amateurs would
> transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP= as with=20 that power one wouldn't be
> able to get any further than the= other end=20 of the town.
> It turned out a bit different, unless you see= the world=20 as one big town ;-)

Rik, after some theoretical estimations= done i am=20 absolutely shure
QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more= ) is=20 posible on 9 kHz.
There is lot of problems on TX side but them to= be=20 solvable. Main problem
is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 10= 0 - 200 kV=20 is reachable with
some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. Fo= r example=20 one should avoid
free end of a wire with such a voltage. On shoul= d use=20 'protecting rings'
on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to= be posible=20 use not too high
antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marc= oni=20 designed specially for
high voltage is adequate. Remember effecti= ve height=20 of 60m kite antenna
used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was= =20 absolutelly vertical, does
it was?). With not too high voltage an= d not too=20 large ANT capacity 4.5 km
was reached. Another key problem is noi= se level=20 on this freq. Now we see
huge discrepancy on the noise level got= from=20 different sourses. What is
the real noise level is not obvious no= w. Can it=20 be much  lower time to
time? Experements to be usefull. Look= at DK8KW=20 web side where 4.5 km
experiment is described. Waterfall backgrou= nd is too=20 smooth. Where
spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity= was not=20 as
high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the= wave=20 zone
on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not= too fast=20 with
distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where=20 'waveguide'
propagation starts. At such distances one shold incre= ase TX ANT=20 voltage
only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway= =20 Stefan's
experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will= be not the=20 last
experiment.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB



------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.73]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b69d9f536f; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:17:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 11865380001D6; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:17:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncleq-0006Rd-9S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nclep-0006RT-Sv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:03 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nclen-0002hZ-PC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:03 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KH09a018944 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:17:01 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:17:00 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:15:39 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wABAMnP References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.200033 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40494b69d9f23b1e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, it's Jim/M0BMU! Tnx Jim. But still difficult here. My Loop is still no= t here so i cannot compare it with the E-field ant... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von rn3agc Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 20:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is jus= t 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screens= hots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWdu YWwgd2FudGVkAAQJAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFQAPACcAAwA0AQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABUAEQAA AAMADwEBCYABACEAAAA1NEIxQjcxM0Y3MjE0MDQ1ODYwNEY0MDIyREFBQTRBQwAFBwEDkAYATA8A ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDV8DWnDaXKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMyMDE3MDBaLTMzNwAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAExGOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWduYWwgd2FudGVkAABAAE4AAPdo3wilygEeAFoAAQAAACMA 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cnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AADXqQ== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI032-eabf4b744cd9326; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:30:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 96ADE38000148; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:30:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdnN-000122-CV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdnN-00011t-2N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfdnL-0004An-Fa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BITbTf084545 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:29:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:37 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b744cd7171c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all, Problem solved; Rapid Electronics carries both the SFH350v and SFH756V at very reasonable cost. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC063-86524b69334e164; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:26:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D782380000E1; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:26:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcaYX-0001kf-5U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcaYW-0001kW-Mb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:48 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcaYT-0005Kr-VI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:48 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822BE51C004 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:25:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D257F3862 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:25:23 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:25:36 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b69334c7ca4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about 20mW. At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with him, receiving a 559 report. Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE081-5ebe4b82e13539c; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:55:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DD959380000AE; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeMY-00049T-Q7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeMY-00049K-CS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeMV-0004xS-D0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2037816bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:54:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3DjWPlrA71e0nJKDGblY3Tfa9xOlVBwU6MZ7Dr6Xgg4=; b=LS1bz1hxD6uKUa3+WbNtg2wUvmNbxILHreOtvXTsrsJ6UdBOtkoFCtCtz6v9vGx9XQ ld+43lcXGdpRHFiGP4i8jUde2jjearCQCqngMKuxpStZsS6dJPwACRm9aheD3ZQqQBey 61N2Fgk+mftz7stNiKr6YWi2EaeRUs+Q0VIJE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=UTDv3k977S15p5m75JpwuhKjzBZJO8LRy/L/OHp21uwJ+NcaQu26rVQ4RbAIiYgsM8 Ldr9GMvM9LVP6EXNvYVeTuud4Oi63zJpXgi3tpgfV7rt/Acm1T5p/MntGhTi5j2E+H+z PQJg8YI7JnMqjLlHhS1tonoDU/zLzK1WKc1Bg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.16.66 with SMTP id n2mr2506503bka.67.1266868469632; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:54:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:29 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b82e133525e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in USB bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse cube attenuation rate. I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode communications? 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 > and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. An > article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of the > AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online for > G0AKN. > > Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes > used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved with a > 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. > > 73 > John Rabson > F5VLF > 58800 Cervon > France > JN17vg > > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in US= B bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that= considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse= cube attenuation rate.

I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode= communications?

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON <john.rabson@numeo.fr> wrote:
If I recall cor= rectly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 and 136 kHz.= =A0G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. =A0An articl= e by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 =A0issue of the AM= RAD newsletter. =A0More information may be found by searching online for= G0AKN.

Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. =A0The maximum range we have achieved= with a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres.

73
John Rabson
F5VLF
58800 Cervon
France
JN17vg








--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.154]) by air-da02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA023-863a4b84ebd41c1; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:05:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2F6BA3800009B; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkD9p-0004Zt-J7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkD9p-0004Zk-1s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.76.154]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkD9n-0001lK-6C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1O93fW7011503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:41 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:41 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: Loran, GPS and jamming Thread-Index: Acq1MEHn9X/BBKHqQpeJlSm6c6rSxw== Message-ID: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Loran, GPS and jamming Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdec94b84ebd35a1c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear All, There was some discussion on this group a while ago about GPS jamming test= s, and many of us have an interest in Loran. There is an item on the BBC= news site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8533157.stm=20 mainly about GPS jamming, but with mention of eLoran lower down. You might= find it interesting. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b696d515f; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:34:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 70FB938000108; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NceP4-0003bZ-G3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NceP4-0003bQ-1n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NceP2-0007E7-Ff for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o13CWAMr042746 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> From: "Albert" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b696d4f47fa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Jay and others, I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, where useful. 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF051-5ef24b84076733e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:50:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 13D10380000A2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:50:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxxE-0002PE-4y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxxD-0002P5-Kc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:47 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxxA-0005Lt-My for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:47 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAFOVg0tcGOT+/2dsb2JhbACNDwONenO9a4JAgiwE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,527,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="303313691" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.228.254]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 16:49:17 +0000 Message-ID: <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40564b84075e4e61 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator= TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim mi= ght join in. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: LF: DATA Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.=20 Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m= from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W= WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and fr= om FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testin= g on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots= of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help= seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wil= l be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experime= nts. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again= soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. Ho= wever, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views,= even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM=20 On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrot= e: Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24= Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmi= ssions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the= novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are= still going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to th= e fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr= etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It wou= ld appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dr= eamers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I= have a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger
Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is= but the latest=20 Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look= out for=20 you, Jim might join in.
 
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 23,= 2010 4:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: DATA

Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your= email.=20

Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked= on 10m=20 from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode= the 1W=20 WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and= from FR1GZ=20 (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on th= e higher=20 HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR= activity=20 on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleetin= g=20 openings. PSK31 is widely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz,= clearly=20 it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there= is much=20 that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with= this in=20 the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signa= l=20 techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance op= erators"=20 are not helpful.  However, it's a free country and you're entit= led to=20 express your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger= G3XBM=20


On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3ke= vmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Generally band condx vy good at= present from LF=20 to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some= strong USA=20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of= Amtor, Pactor=20 and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the= =20 years.
Observations indicate that data= mode acty does=20 not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional mode= s CW, SSB=20 and RTTY are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty= are data but I=20 am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet= and all=20 the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any= of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham ope= rators are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, an= d the=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF= below 9 Kcs I=20 will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
 
de G3KEV
 
 



--=20

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http:/= /www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM=20    GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b8abd31d3; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:00:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1EB4D38000147; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NloME-0008S5-2R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NloMD-0008Rw-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:13 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NloMA-0001CO-Pm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:13 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai4HAMJLiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACHTZNPc7g0hHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="303888402" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:57:41 +0000 Message-ID: <004201cab8a7$e641ed90$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:57:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b8abd3022fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jacek The response is ABUSE this is all they know. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacek Lipkowski" To: Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, mal hamilton wrote: > > > It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not > > have a sense of Humour!! > > Mal, you need to get an additional license for humour these days :) > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC102-862e4b670be4359; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:14:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D66C7380078F7; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbzmi-0002HU-Fr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbzmi-0002HL-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from mout6.freenet.de ([195.4.92.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nbzmh-0000A0-2w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.13] (helo=3.mx.freenet.de) by mout6.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1Nbzmf-0007MV-MS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:57 +0100 Received: from blfd-4db0e3a8.pool.mediaways.net ([77.176.227.168]:2750 helo=[192.168.178.22]) by 3.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1Nbzmf-00024J-F5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:57 +0100 Message-ID: <4B670AE2.7040600@freenet.de> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:54 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?V29sZmdhbmcgQsO8c2NoZXI=?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1f0624b91001310901s4b277bfdl34710411e4185839@mail.gmail.com> <1C05E50A54B4465193C903D46F3566E6@JimPC> <1f0624b91001311347v4db2dd59k65607d8b6240452c@mail.gmail.com> <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> In-Reply-To: <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b670b1d60b3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Markus and group, > The extra {10} may be just SpecLab's way of displaying a linefeed. Exactly that. Each received non-printing character is simply dumped as a decimal code in curly braces. The linefeed character (code 10) should be ignored if it follows a carriage return (code 13), but I didn't care about this too much when implementing the digimode terminal. 73, Wolf DL4YHF (still QRT on LF.. and waiting for a german MF allocation..) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.218]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b6f7b81331; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:48:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2653738000104; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeJeK-00079U-45 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeJeJ-00079L-NU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:55 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s16.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.27]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeJeH-0005vy-MZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:55 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W12 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s16.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:46:46 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [70.241.49.5] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:46:46 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2010 02:46:46.0527 (UTC) FILETIME=[F47B58F0:01CAA868] X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.014,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_" Subject: RE: LF: LoranView Grabber X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6f7b7f0c4b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey MArkus - nice! Its going to be interesting to see how and when they cl= ose down but a shame that such a good tool (on the American side) is going= to be lost. As you can see Im still very unsettled and still living out= of a hotel room here in Oklahoma=20 =20 =20 Cheers From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100 Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber Dear LF, =20 I have tried to set up an experimental "live" screen grabber for 100 kHz= Loran-C: =20 http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm =20 Display averaging is 5 minutes, with uploads approximately every 15 minute= s. Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still playing around with the soft= ware. =20 There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmitters= , giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across the Northern hemi= sphere. And there are many interesting details, like multiple skywave hops= separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips following solar flares. =20 Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Loran-C is schedu= led for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see what will change by tomorr= ow night. =20 =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/=3D --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey MArkus - nice! Its going to be interesting to see how and when th= ey close down but a shame that such a good tool (on the American side) is= going to be lost. As you can see Im still very unsettled and still= living out of a hotel room here in Oklahoma 3D""
 
 
Cheers
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Su= n, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100
Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber

Dear LF,
 
I have tried to set up an experimental&nb= sp;"live" screen grabber for 100 kHz Loran-C:
 
 
Display averaging is 5 minutes, = ;with uploads approximately every 15 minutes.  Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still play= ing around with the software.
 
There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmi= tters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across th= e Northern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details, like= multiple skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips fo= llowing solar flares.
 
Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Lo= ran-C is scheduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see&n= bsp;what will change by tomorrow night.  
 
73, Ma= rkus (DF6NM)
 
=
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM prote= ction. Sign up now. =3D --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI061-eaca4b7f26ef30a; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:03:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B648D380000B4; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nico8-0007kc-MR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nico8-0007kT-C1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nico6-0003tX-Pj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB095F0003 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:49 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:48 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Re:_Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b7f26ed6afa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Veit I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? >=20 > Veit DL7ET From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI013-eab84b70778aac; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:43:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0DC2F38017A44; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeZwk-0001Bn-D0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeZwj-0001Be-SB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:01 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeZwh-0003ud-8f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 46211 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2010 20:10:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Thread-Index:Importance; b=ko0fKNWiDITXDcRizLU02tkw3Twy/QHGNedoxCVwcn6xCn5/M5vaE1vvuPofvfYjck9k0xjQHRT6EtaXbMpJSfn9sg/yw6osaUSDc30sr7z8Bh6qoqznPRBQ65LCcWE1kxvOKp669ORmZzJWA75jHYHW4OBGrEv0o7uSF3DkCf8= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Inspiron) (hudsonville@86.144.17.24 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2010 20:10:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: T9P8HheswBCXVWXq3ajpBY99bVSvRxQZ2abOUyeQ53_fqQzzpx0V X-YMail-OSG: kTcIamcVM1kkLqSLQsinMCM_Z5YX4YC1NKSr3La9a7AMw08OOAZlkZP_RQ7.mylNOYcwinU2CBdK2jNN2idJrThMBXMPoxKVQPrWnqaWBK2h49ycKKa7fKm0R434_LfSxOcxZaNAq7bQmrg4o5aTAIlskRq4g5BUnVYq4b.BkSkPQ.lI7CB8OhrNJe.2cMB6P3HuViuEbicAwmZ2gYHHVJTamgcCOelUtaynV8DpKLOJ5w3ktXVgE3tj.tIY5v9dNU8.daOCgkMP X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Lee Hudson" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:10:52 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcqoIoBlrM3slppiQB+z3Fen/bAmoQA0Co+g Importance: Normal DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b70705c71b8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy, Jim, LF Group, =20 I did a similar test back in January and had similar results using a= 20Hz bandwidth on WE2XGR/6 and managed 20dB or so improvement. The WSPR spectrogram showed nicely the ripples in the filter used, and appeared to be a limiting factor as to how far you could go. Also WSPR spent more time trying to recover something from these rippl= es, in one case nearly the full 2 mins. =20 Test was triggered also by too good to be true signal reports from som= e stations, as Andy has spotted. Interestingly these stations would fail to report other stations that= should clearly be readable given the S/N ratios reported. =20 With careful inspection of the reports it was sort of possible to get= a feel for what bandwidth was actually being monitored. But not conclusive en= ough to be sure. A transmitting station that drifted through the WSPR band= was very handy for highlighting this. Looking at the spread of S/N reports you would also find a sudden cut= off point way above -30dB norm were reports would not be given and this co= uld be an indicator of the gain achievable by over filtering that should tie= in with your findings. Rather than spend hours analysing logs, and contemplating how my stati= on could be improved further, it was much easier to discount these report= s all together as being unreliable and of no use. =20 73, Lee M0LMH. =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot Sent: 07 February 2010 18:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported= by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a dire= ct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. =20 The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz,= the reported S/N increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but th= ese were more than enough to show the effect. =20 Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but the results can be summarised as : =20 ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want artificially high SNR reports ----------------------- =20 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the= full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com =20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2674 - Release Date: 02/07/= 10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi=20 Andy, Jim, LF Group,
 
I did=20 a similar test back in January and had similar results using a 20Hz ba= ndwidth on=20 WE2XGR/6 and managed 20dB or so improvement.
The=20 WSPR spectrogram showed nicely the ripples in the filter used, and app= eared to=20 be a limiting factor as to how far you could go.
Also=20 WSPR spent more time trying to recover something from these ripples,= in one case=20 nearly the full 2 mins.
 
Test=20 was triggered also by too good to be true signal reports from some sta= tions, as=20 Andy has spotted.
Interestingly these stations would fail to report other= stations that=20 should clearly be readable given the S/N ratios reported.
 
With=20 careful inspection of the reports it was sort of possible to get a fee= l for what=20 bandwidth was actually being monitored. But not conclusive eno= ugh to be sure. A=20 transmitting station that drifted through the WSPR band was very handy= for=20 highlighting this.
Looking at the spread of S/N reports you would also fin= d a sudden cut=20 off point way above -30dB norm were reports would not be given and thi= s could be=20 an indicator of the gain achievable by over filtering that should tie= in with=20 your findings.
Rather=20 than spend hours analysing logs, and contemplating how my station coul= d be=20 improved further, it was much easier to discount these reports all tog= ether as=20 being unreliable and of no use.
 
73,
Lee=20 M0LMH.
 
-----Original Message-----
Fro= m:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org]=20 On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 07 February 2010=20 18:21
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc:=20 jfell@tesco.net
Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests

=
To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of  S/= N reported=20 by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements= over a=20 direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.<= /DIV>
 
The results were dramatic.  With receive bandwidths= less than=20 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.   It was= only=20 possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with= the=20 SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect.
 
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf =20 but the results can be summarised as :
 
-------------   Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unl= ess you=20 want artificially high SNR reports  =20  -----------------------
 
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to= see the=20 full noise band is OK.

No virus found in this incoming messa= ge.
Checked=20 by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2= 674 -=20 Release Date: 02/07/10 19:35:00

------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC033-864f4b81284d1c5; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:34:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2AA2A38000091; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjAzC-0006NZ-PH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjAzC-0006NQ-9n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjAzA-0002ON-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4584C802B for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB694C80E6 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B8127D9.70602@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:25 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b81284c2a57 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Andy , Andy Talbot a =E9crit : > Jean - Pierre... > > Is the circuit diagram correct ? =20 Yes my diagram is correct > Your two final op-amps used as > differential amplifiers both have their inputs taken from teh same ndes,= yet > are labelled to deliver I and Q. =20 No is not I/Q > The first pair of op-amp do correctly > take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then their outputs are= =20 > summed (differenced !) together.=20 > =20 Owing to the fact that it is not I/Q, that makes it possible to have the= =20 OL /2 or /4, the two exits are for two separate PC! the rejection of the= =20 frequency image is made by the selectivity of the filter of entry, the=20 IF is of 10kHz (spectrum lab) > As far as I can see, I and Q outputs > are the same signal. Also, there is very littel audio gain in the circu= it, > so the receiver as shown requires plenty of RF input to deliver enough= audio > for teh typical soundcard > > An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it > has considerable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep > stable. Better to use a MAR-3 at LF. > =20 The ERA-5 resists very well the strong signals, I am to 80 km of France=20 Inter (2MW on 164kHz) and 50km of HWU (200 KW on 22kHz) not of problems,= =20 (see my grabber) > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > =20 73 Jean-Pierre f1afj > > On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" > wrote: > > =20 >> Hi Scott , >> >> Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm >> >> It is my grabber on 2200m ! >> >> 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj >> >> >> Scott Tilley a =E9crit : >> >> Hi All >> =20 >>> I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well >>> documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? >>> >>> Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of >>> effort would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =20 > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE012-5ea34b7bec9518f; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:18:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 565523800029F; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhjla-0007oA-1b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhjlZ-0007o1-5E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:33 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhjlW-000060-Es for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:33 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Feb 2010 13:16:22 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2010 14:16:22 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+cKbcRvQacVWawGDWms0TSQ4JDl7ceY/Fnz81bHl VKU4qSN0KLH3L8 Message-ID: <008901caafd3$6697b8e0$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:16:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.45000000000000001,0.45000000000000001 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4b7bec934846 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yes,be careful about this precious piece of measuring equipment. But then,with < +/- 0,2dB you come out at an uncertainty within of around +/- 42W at 900W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity I don't use a Bird wattmeter. Don't trust any directional type of= meter for proper power=20 measurements. I have a 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated)= plus HP 432 power meter=20 (reasonably well calibrated) so I reckon power measurement is to with= in 0.2dB However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator,= which is a very nice=20 little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good idea Andy www.g4jnt.com On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul wrote: >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/= -50W, with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how= it must be 3:1 teh only=20 solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages.= Indeed, it does turn out=20 to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telepho= ne exchange' PSU (50V 25=20 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the= PSU current limited when=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it= current limited at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). = So it really was giving=20 more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a=20 switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 70= 0W 137kHz Tx,=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enough said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz= where the transformers=20 began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / eff= iciency. So as a=20 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF= amp. BUT, with suitable=20 change of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5k= W on 137 or 500kHz - if a=20 suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentatio= n done, and any further=20 work can wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and= referring to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9= (Z) transfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the ab= ove design to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a= dc path from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connecte= d to the center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next= coax section (1:9 or=20 higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondar= y is nowhere connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W lim= it in linear mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more= power on the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for= losses of the low pass=20 filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial= RF heater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the= calculations said it=20 needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherw= ise known as a=20 bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with different= reference points to confuse=20 everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)= gives the answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two= bits of coax, which are=20 then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9= impedance). Add another=20 turn, so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearr= ange the grounding points=20 and there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfe= t PA has two separate,=20 non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA= practice, and being so=20 normal in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage -= it enables the designer to=20 float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even=20 to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allo= ws one end to be=20 completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced ope= ration is permitted with=20 the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:= 2 transformation by the=20 same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown= as a twisted pair rather=20 than coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved= of HF antenna=20 constructors. A natural progression that helps illustrate the concep= t of a loop of coax=20 giving one turn more than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisi= s ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%2= 0and%20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T -------------------------------------------------------------------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] namens=20 Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroup= s.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedat= um: 02/09/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/16/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2692 - Ausgabedatum: 02/1= 6/10 20:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh yes,be careful about this precious= piece of=20 measuring equipment.
But then,with < +/- 0,2dB you come= out at an=20 uncertainty
within of around +/- 42W at 900W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, February 17,= 2010 12:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity

I don't use a Bird wattmeter.  Don't trust any directional= type of=20 meter for proper power measurements. 
 
I have a  1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (c= alibrated)=20 plus HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated)  so I reck= on power=20 measurement is to within 0.2dB
 
However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenua= tor, which=20 is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good= idea=20
 
On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net>=20 wrote:
>and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V)= .
> So it really was giving more power out than it 'oug= ht=20 to'
 
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter= with a 1kW slug=20 would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW element +/-125W= .
Power master is a bit better with= +/-=20 30W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February= 16, 2010 8:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA= matching=20 oddity

A follow up to this sage  
 
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about= how it=20 must be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.  So= I connected=20 up and measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:= 1=20 -   So   how could it deliver 1kW plus...
 
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink,  got out th= e=20 'telephone exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the= max it=20 would give.   Unfortunately the PSU current limited wh= en=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to= 44V, it=20 current limited at a higher value and I got 950 Watts befor= e the PSU=20 gave up (off 44V).    So it really was giving mor= e power=20 out than it 'ought to'
 
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation elemen= t and in=20 fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. &n= bsp; I'd=20 used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.co= m/137tx.pdf  and forgot=20 it.   Enough said.
 
Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to= about 5MHz=20 where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz= where the=20 FETs lost gain / efficiency.   So as a 13.56MHz indust= rial unit=20 its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp.   BUT= , with=20 suitable change of output transformer, could probably be persuad= ed to give=20 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand. = That's=20 where it sits now.   Experimentation done, and any fur= ther work=20 can wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul= <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over= the transformer=20 of Andy's PA and referring= =20 to
I'm sorry to say that<= /DIV>
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)&n= bsp;sure that=20 it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points= =20 which exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers pro= vide no dc=20 isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side= .
There is no such dc= path=20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the= =20 braid of one coax end is connect= ed=20 to the center
conductor at= the start of=20 the same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1= :9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this= =20 design.The center of the secondary is nowhere=20 connected
with a braid.
 = ;
BTW there is no reason to wor= ry about the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdri= ven you get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133= W so you have=20 enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this= PA which was=20 used as industrial RF= heater=20
was designed to be=20 superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 = ;
 
 
----- Original Message -----=
From= : Andy Talbot= =20
Sent: Tuesday, Februa= ry 09, 2010=20 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE:= PA matching=20 oddity

BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it,=20 convincing.  Sorted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z rati= o)=20  just as the calculations said it needed to be,&nb= sp;and is=20 indeed, effectively, an auto transformer.  Otherwise kn= own as a=20 bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with= different=20 reference points to confuse everyone. Your se= cond=20 reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)  gives= the=20 answer.  
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9=20 Ruthroff   UnUn .   With just = two bits=20 of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input= to give a=20 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).   Add another turn,= so three=20 windings are  bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearr= ange the=20 grounding points and there, in all its glory, is my=20 mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the= mosfet=20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pu= ll HF PA=20 practice, and being so normal in its concept, completel= y hides=20 hides a big real advantage - it enables the design= er to=20 float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanc= ed /=20 unbalanced operation, and even to provide DC isolation, = ; =20 Any conductor passing through the core allows one end to be= completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced= operation=20 is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the pape= r.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown= giving=20 1:2 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, an= d when the=20 transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax= , then=20 wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved= of HF=20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression= that=20 helps illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax= giving one=20 turn more than it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial= crisis ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strob= be <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
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Version:=20 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09= /10=20 08:35:00



Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr= =FCft - www.avg= .de=20
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Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
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------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.16]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b8667114b; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:03:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E1AD3380000F2; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcQO-0002wC-M3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcQO-0002w3-BX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.27]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcQM-00044t-No for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1PC2S65054987 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:02:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:16 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40104b86670a3485 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Andy, I measured the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip. Receiver: SPM-30, BW = 24 Hz, noise level = -115 dBm The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revealed a noise level of -122 dBm. PERSEUS has an input isolating transformer, which rolls off below 15 kHz, hence the lower measured noise level. It does not look too bad to me, really. 73, Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.73]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE073-5ebc4b68b0d865; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:10:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D7FDC380001DC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcRrW-00081N-DA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcRrV-00081E-TQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:49 +0000 Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.39]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcRrT-0002nm-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:49 +0000 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o12N8eGt005789 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:08:40 -0500 Received: from G4gvw@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c15.567f5a4c (37253) for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (host-92-1-137-15.as43234.net [92.1.137.15]) by cia-ma07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA073-91854b68b06b3e0; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:08:35 -0500 From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:30 +0000 Message-Id: <1265152110.31873.19.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: G4gvw@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60494b68b0d45e1e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi All, Having past experience of negotiating with our national regulators, I am always respectful and appreciative of those who do this work as unpaid volunteers. A well-known colleague of ours in this group was for a number of years also a business partner of mine. His advice to me when I embarked on similar work from within our trade federation was that I should always assume that, no matter the subject, the automatic initial response from the 'sybil serpents' to any question or request would be 'NO', 'NON', 'Ce ne'st possible', 'Absolutely Not!', 'Over our dead bodies', 'We have no rational argument BUT WE ARE your Humble Servants and it IS in your best interests to refuse you permission to do something worthwhile and sensible! (even more so if you might profit from it)' As I suggested in my earlier email, drink a big toast to such seekers of the grail who do pit themselves against the serried ranks of 'Bro Crassy' who govern in spite of and in (default) cahoots with our learned and wise 'Polly Tickle Masters'! 'Twas ever thus On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 21:41 +0200, Paul-Henrik wrote: > Dear Mal. > > Send your mails on this subject to all "OFCOM's" in EU instead. One mail every > day to each country would give them something to think about. > > Personally I have spent countless hours writing up agendas, papers and e-mails > to our telecom authority to somehow get OH on 500kHz. Plus some unpaid offdays > from work to see the authority in person. Plus paid the tickets myself > everytime to get there (400km or so one-way). Get up early, home late. For two > years now, and in vein. Not giving up though. > > I'm sure the same process is taking place elsewhere in EU as well. People > working hard on their own time to convince their authorities it is time for a > change and that the current RR frequency table does not reflect the current > situation on/around 500kHz. > > The hams in EU are progressive but penetrating a brick wall with a toothpick > takes it's time. > > BR > > Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ > > > Quoting mal hamilton : > > > Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where are > > the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! > > I thought EU was progressive !! > > G3KEV > > > > > > > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.9]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA014-b4f24b7083bac0; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:35:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1FC2438002B63; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebD9-0001Tn-KW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebD9-0001Te-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: from smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebD6-0004PU-KT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 19537 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2010 21:31:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Importance; b=M9StaXhDVoeEVZSbrMpB+iuavJPJdXalYj509o7w0NTqUZJ4GLCy4w8CPFWg5AewSa38oA3xT89cY3qE4dstJ5Na1licnyKHz3BPGY+OQTtokCZoUxZ+RQxktL+kLRXb7TtUIFxaBfsIvFHW0NDFJ2YJS5xXHxaSmRVqxq4l8Gk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO aquarids) (ganymede444@86.141.127.43 with login) by smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2010 21:31:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: JSvqNSWswBBXc9Mk_Vd71RtGz2bViJtuZMADdmi78eLqBj_R7.fL X-YMail-OSG: XACRdxsVM1lztBkmrA8ZXjYflUw6nqhV686dLgEMdDlig8O8jq.x_.Y4k4Y5FtoQTwU7Ro1ILQtIPucmBCVTiWh67.AIiIHuK_BEsBGIDfUHNdfO.gj2Ss6IC.PlbI51RknlbRWgiBaxXHJ10pgdzWUEm1bYbxHoB1faxVfo.YIO3Qs606YH5cIU45.w7yCKz4vfkhrlt07SY_jIKAaP0INzx2b7pAGp7_Rw4Hv6jiUQ1eNs.vXKB0pYNuEqjnXeRErW1tbDTI1o1bINOemgo97DggWPcc4- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Dave G3WCB" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:32:18 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> Importance: Normal DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60094b7083286780 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear LF, Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran closure Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=20 LF,
 
Here's=20 a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announc= ement of=20 the cessation of US LORAN services. 
 
 
LORAN,=20 OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK  :-(
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB IO91RM
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Marku= s=20 Vester
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Loran=20 closure

Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good= traces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it lo= oks like=20 the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast=20 chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian= =20 participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as= 9960 has=20 not appeared with 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.14]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF034-8be44b8666de373; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7ECBD380000A3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcPc-0002uw-8G for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcPb-0002un-TL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:47 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcPZ-00044B-3N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:47 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PC1fVK065163 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:01:42 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00350 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:06:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:06:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:01:43 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400e4b8666dd18d7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , > at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in > the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening > years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical > junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous > to start with. > > In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi > antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of > noise from such a beast Why? It is for 175 dB noise level, not for lowest 155 dB level. > > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density > Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) > = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) For 155 dB it changes to 6.5 uV/m in 1 Hz. In 0.01 Hz (QRSS100) it yelds 0.65 uV/m. 2.5 uV/m is ~10 dB over noise. Right? Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.25]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b6c49cf24b; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:39:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D56538000199; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:39:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRBy-0005V0-Eg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRBy-0005Ur-4J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl ([194.134.41.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRBw-0004OL-Go for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BDCA21B for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:51 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp02.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60194b6c49cd0fe4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 PA3EGO transmitting QRSS 10 at 502.0 KHz Victor From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.149]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b82d1efaf; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:50:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 743EF380000D4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjdL4-0003sd-Cq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:49:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjdL3-0003sU-F2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:49:01 +0000 Received: from mail-pw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjdL0-0004Pf-Kk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; 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Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:48:50 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: af000206ed4ced7f Message-ID: <1f0624b91002221048g2584374fr2098db77fb00f059@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d257.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40954b82d1ed2c86 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete & Group, Perhaps something like this one :- http://www.vlf.it/matteobruna/ULF_Induction-Coil.htm & others at :- http://www.vlf.it 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 22 February 2010 18:19, M0FMT wrote: > Hi Group > > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 > kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 14= 00 > turns, > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolt= s. > Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > > > > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn * wrote: > > > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. > > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > > > > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rememb= er > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differ= ent > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > >> ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna". There are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > >> > >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> 73s > >> Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > > > >> > >> Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > >> would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like > >> bandwith or power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete & Group,

Perhaps something like this one :-=

http://www.vlf.it/matteobruna/ULF_Induction-Coil.htm<= /div>

& others at :-

http://www.vlf.it

73, =A0G= ary - G4WGT.


On 22 February= 2010 18:19, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Group
=A0
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red ho= t.
Any suggestions??
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subj= ect: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,= 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 Febru= ary 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required= in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let=
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the re= gulator at one time
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests= the answer as I remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International= Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and= no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
>= ; I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
&g= t; --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <St= efan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Dat= e: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>= ;>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it= is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the proble= ms we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/lon= g antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels?= Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>= ;> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but= what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the= loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
= >> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good= distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although= it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>><= br>>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
&= gt;> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb= Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>> =A0 At this frequency, widely spa= ced,=A0grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the= best "antenna".=A0 There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for= example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> availa= ble on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham si= tes
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0.
>>
>= ;> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>>= aim with modern
>> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) avail= able
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous po= wer and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>= =A0 73s
>> =A0 Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>&= gt; <schaefer@hst.tu-d= armstadt.de>
>>
>> =A0 Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>><= br>>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
&= gt;> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would= be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that= area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire= and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007= i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on al= l HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is= mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with ba= d ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x= 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some= ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will nev= er be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________= ___________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von:= owner-rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>>= ; Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beac= oning on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA= and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed= that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've= got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need= one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitati= on of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _____________________________________________________= ______
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>&g= t; =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>= ;>
>>
>>
>> =A0 htt= p://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
>>
>> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
&= gt;>
>> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL
>> G11= 088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>>= Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der= Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-6912= 0 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405=
>>
>> www.iup.un= i-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>



--000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-da02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA022-86124b7485e835a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C292F38000220; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhbG-0002N1-S5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhbG-0002Ms-8o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhbF-0005kz-22 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100211223323.XEQQ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:23 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhb8-000771-B8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:23 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:16 -0000 Message-ID: <009c01caab6a$348cb480$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqraN5rjyqOUydRT8KB+AiutykA9QAAIYnA In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=BrDiTsk0AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=7h2TatIUnsZp5ybXmYMA:9 a=IJ0f6dKP6mRVPwRvMZgA:7 a=OzROfJA20SgovFRgscZb94XlztwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=-hJg1tCh9CgA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=oagfjQb4cmBHw3es:21 a=Eax3ppVNGzLDcANk:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=f9K-EWb39suho5xv2XcA:9 a=rzqrFR16CWeXROMu9IcA:7 a=lR8T-HLQLBUSi3UOkc4ZrGQo_lsA:4 a=HzF1FZKAul3JwqW6:21 a=RWMSwOkm_RDjkrS0:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b7485e65f92 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dominic Welcome to 500khz! It's a real blast and challenge. The guys are great and will give you all sorts of useful tips, as well as engaging in healthy debate about all matters LF/MF For me personally, my area of interest is 500 and latterly 136 on CW/RTTY and newer data modes like WSJT JT4A and WSPR. The latter has the potential to make the best of friends argue.but in a good natured way. (be warned WSPR is hugely addictive esp on 30M and 40M where 1W will get you to VK/ZL!!). WSJT-JT4A is also QSO mode similar to WSPR. WSPR is more beaconing, tho can be QSO as well and hence divides opinion far more effectively than religion/politics/football!! :-) Pete, Dennis, Chris, Roger, Alan, Lee and Jim (Moritz) have all given me loads of help as a newbie. Chris in particular has helped with hardware too! If I can be of any help (prob unlikely) then do drop me a note or call It may not be necessary (though it is far more desirable and more rewarding I agree) to build your own Tx. I use an IC706 mk2G modded for wide tx to generate 10W on 500. I used to use an IC735 but by being overzealous on what I thought it could do, I managed to smoke the PA.doh!! My own stupid fault!! :-( Even with 10W ERP and an aerial in an RF sapping birch tree I still can get out some 1200km on WSPR and have had CW QSOs with Finbar, Mal, Rog and Peter Dodd all in the 200km + zone. Again welcome to 500Khz. With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New NoV CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: Well done Dom Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dominic=

 

Welcome to 500k= hz!   It’s a real blast and challenge.   The guys are great and will gi= ve you all sorts of useful tips, as well as engaging in healthy debate about= all matters LF/MF

 

For me personal= ly, my area of interest is 500 and latterly 136 on CW/RTTY and newer data modes like WSJT JT4A an= d WSPR.   The latter has the potential to make the best of fri= ends argue…but in a good natured way.   (be warned WSPR is= hugely addictive esp on 30M and 40M where 1W will get you to VK/ZL!!).

 

WSJT-JT4A is al= so QSO mode similar to WSPR.  WSPR is more beaconing, tho can be QSO as well and hence= divides opinion far more effectively than religion/politics/football!!  <= /span>J

 

Pete, Dennis,= Chris, Roger, Alan, Lee  and Jim (Moritz) have all given me loads of help as a newbie.  Chris= in particular has helped with hardware too!

 

If I can be of= any help (prob unlikely)  then do drop me a note or call

 

It may not be= necessary (though it is far more desirable and more rewarding I agree) to build your own Tx.  = ;I use an IC706 mk2G modded for wide tx to generate 10W on 500.  I used to= use an IC735 but by being overzealous on what I thought it could do, I manage= d to smoke the PA…doh!!  My own stupid fault!! L

 

Even with 10W= ERP and an aerial in an RF sapping birch tree I still can get out some 1200km on WSPR and have ha= d CW QSOs with Finbar, Mal, Rog and Peter Dodd all in the 200km + zone.

 

Again welcome= to 500Khz.

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:22
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: New No= V

 

CW good, WSPR= good too     :-))

73s Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Well done Dom=

 =

Hope to hear you soon. CW Good&= nbsp; ......... WSPR BAD!! 

73 es GL petefmt



--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Bai= nes <dominic.baines@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:


From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com>

Subject: LF: New NoV=


To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=

Date: Thursday, 11 February, 20= 10, 15:02

 

Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso=
perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE071-5eba4b88570d3c9; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DB8803800036F; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl9Rl-0001na-8J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl9Rk-0001nR-SW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:12 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl9Rh-0000v6-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:12 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674255F001C for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from chello089076056060.chello.pl [89.76.56.60] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id tdCSGU; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 Message-ID: <003801cab739$ebe0af30$0304a8c0@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 62 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: CQ SP2KDS SO5AS SQ5BPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608a4b88570b2cd3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF Polish station worked now: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF RX 137,710kHz TX 7,123MHz sq5bpf grabber: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ 73! Marcin SQ2BXI ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF
Polish station worked now:
SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz= =20 +-QRM)
SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM)
SQ5BPF R= X=20 137,710kHz TX 7,123MHz
sq5bpf   grabber:
73! Marcin SQ2BXI
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD014-8b774b8393dc29b; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:37:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 27EA538000085; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:37:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqG4-0007mK-Ox for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqG4-0007mB-9g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqG2-0000by-Gm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1N8adgj016556 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:36:40 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:36:40 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:33:34 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0GIn7qOGjdrJCSJCNmlH9LZZtUQABJI1+ABFxtog= References: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.82419 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2" Subject: WG: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b8393db1c85 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete,=20 =20 Yesterday in the night or today in the morning i had another idea. The mai= l wasn't reflected, perhaps too much data volume (sri, have forgotten to= delete the old mails hanging on) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 01:35 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Pete,=20 =20 A last idea for today (PC was already shut down but i cannot slep now ;-)= ): =20 The very simpelst, maybe not the worst, way to try it on VLF is using your= inv L antenna as a real vertical loop. =20 That means you could try to take a wire and connect it to the end of your= L, place it on the ground back to the feed point. Then, all you need is= a C, probably some 10 =B5F, to compensate the L of the wire at that frequ= ency. The current will be limited just by the resistance of the antenna wi= re, and the power of course. There will be no loading coil, so you reduce= much work!=20 =20 Perhaps the overall resistance will even be in the region of 4 Ohm, so you= do not even need a transformation! Just connect the ground wire to the gr= ound of your amplifier and the top wire of the antenna in series with the= C to the AF output and adjust C for maximum antenna current (e.g. measure= d by a 0,1 Ohm shunt resistor and an oscilloscope). That could be done in= 1...3 hours of work :-) =20 If your signal will be received in 6,5km, you could tell us the difference= to the before mentioned ways of matching. And: Since Jacek has reached 75= 0m with 2W TX power and a 4m*14m loop, you could be successful with 100W= and a vertical loop with more area and QRSS... =20 GL!! Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,
 
Yesterday in the night or = today in the morning i had another idea. The mail wasn't reflected, perhap= s too much data volume (sri, have forgotten to delete the old mails hangin= g on)
 
73, Stefan/DK7FC

Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer
Gesendet:<= /B> Di 23.02.2010 01:35
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
B= etreff: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Pete,
 
A last idea for today (PC was= already shut down but i cannot slep now ;-) ):
 
The very simpelst, maybe not th= e worst, way to try it on VLF is using your inv L antenna as a real= vertical loop.
 
That means you could try to tak= e a wire and connect it to the end of your L, place it on the ground back= to the feed point. Then, all you need is a C, probably some 10 =B5F, to= compensate the L of the wire at that frequency. The current will be limit= ed just by the resistance of the antenna wire, and the power of course. Th= ere will be no loading coil, so you reduce much work!
 
Perhaps the overall resistance= will even be in the region of 4 Ohm, so you do not even need a transforma= tion! Just connect the ground wire to the ground of your amplifier and the= top wire of the antenna in series with the C to the AF output and adjust= C for maximum antenna current (e.g. measured by a 0,1 Ohm shunt resistor= and an oscilloscope). That could be done in 1...3 hours of work :-)
 
If your signal will be received= in 6,5km, you could tell us the difference to the before mentioned ways= of matching. And: Since Jacek has reached 750m with 2W TX power and a 4m*= 14m loop, you could be successful with 100W and a vertical loop with more= area and QRSS...
 
GL!! Stefan/DK7FC
<= /DIV>
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.142]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b6e049131; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:08:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5E75038000153; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:08:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndugc-0006rf-0v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndugb-0006rW-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:37 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdugZ-0007pq-Kn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:37 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E889D7000089 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DC65D700008B for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.41.48]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5F1AC7000089 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:27 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100207000727389.5F1AC7000089@mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:07:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100206-2, 06/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_HAS_SPACES=0.651,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408e4b6e04905f49 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who called the station to night ..=20 Closed round 22-30 hrs=20 G ..=20 From: Graham=20 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:27 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566=20 =20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TA= KE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB=20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND=20 WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 = TILL > LATER =20 ALSO RX ON 3566 CW =20 REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME =20 TNX - G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to  all  who = called=20 the  station to  night ..
 
Closed round  22-30 hrs <= /DIV>
 
G ..
 

From: Graham
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:27 PM
Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566
=

 
 
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; 1600=20 HRS    ALSO   X BAND  3566  = RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<  TO  DAY SAT= 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; =20 TX/RX  500  ALSO   RX 3566 +/-  QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE  OPERATIONAL  = FROM=20 ROUND   1600 HRS GMT  >  1800  ... 1900&nb= sp; =20 TILL > LATER 
ALSO   RX ON 3566  CW&= nbsp; =20
 
REPORTS  / CALLS  WELCOME&n= bsp; =20
 
TNX - G ..




------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.30]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b82feca232; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 850F138000096; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgKm-0005QO-PM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgKm-0005QF-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgKk-0005uy-2b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1MM1Yef006077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1MM1Y8M006074 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.506 () AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Poland on LF activity - Friday 20100226 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601e4b82fec65938 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all! The Polish Amateur Radio Union has a new "Poland on Long Wave - 136 kHz Award", which is the second LF award avaliable in Europe. Rules are avaliable at: http://awards.pzk.org.pl/html/136_PL.htm On Friday 26 February 2010 there will be 3 stations active: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF receiving 137,710kHz transmiting 7,123kHz +-QRM Activity will start from abt. 20:00 UTC. Also I will have my LF grabber active all week 24h/day for propagation tests: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ Watch the amplitude scale - if your signal peaks >20dB above noise (the FFT bin width is 0.5Hz), we can try a normal CW QSO. VY 73 and hope to see (and hear!) you on LF! Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE074-5ebd4b6d668213a; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:54:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5548838000064; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdkA6-0004Xu-Uw for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdkA6-0004Xk-AI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdkA4-0003XU-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o16CrE92059038 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:53:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:11 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6d66811f01 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't work well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.96]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD032-86314b6d9af23d5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:38:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BBC0738000112; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndne8-00057U-Tn for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndne8-00057L-Eh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndne6-0005CB-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so1744789pzk.16 for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:36:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/GfLEd76fdUdif3KcnGCZqxs3WRtEIt/g3/UTUpffHk=; b=OAOkee74DByWEkMiNi7UvTIRs4IZjwydwZBfhSRX/iixaR18rYYTxbmVljYdzhdDA3 rG406PQFuubTYmfMbRXOVc25JTKVDFyMfaxilXklkyvnAVWVVHey3zUsxeSyIHbLE1kM qf/7c99TnibiTruoU0a5KQqqgEme2jhcLRftc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=hgjktBTtObUThu/R7DS0bQnSnLCI12vhWrv4cqTjn1Xu3cbnZmn9KFJHLsL7GmL8b5 DfnjwntbYcPozjPcsikQPthB+cs0rAaDcyyE1Oa1jZaEwaq+xhUHc6jDAn+tJ0iQStil xXT09A7AhbMaRGdFHqGSV6CgtjN/RZIHFZ1jU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.188.41 with SMTP id q41mr2948891rvp.119.1265474185999; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:36:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:36:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 44227e55e156bf38 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002060836w75df96d0u23daf24218533ddf@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: Fwd: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 RX > TO DAY SAT 6 FEB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b84b6d9af03905 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 TILL > LATER ALSO RX ON 3566 CW REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME TNX - G .. --000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0
GB4FPR=A0=A0 502.000=A0 CW=A0 1600=20 HRS=A0=A0=A0 ALSO=A0=A0 X BAND=A0 3566=A0=A0 RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<=A0 TO=A0 DAY SAT 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR=A0=A0 502.000=A0 CW=A0=A0=20 TX/RX=A0 500=A0 ALSO=A0=A0 RX 3566 +/-=A0 QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE=A0 OPERATIONAL=A0=A0 FROM=20 ROUND=A0=A0 1600 HRS GMT=A0 >=A0 1800=A0 ... 1900=A0=A0=20 TILL > LATER=A0
ALSO=A0=A0 RX ON 3566=A0 CW=A0=A0=20
=A0
REPORTS=A0 / CALLS=A0 WELCOME=A0=A0= =20
=A0
TNX - G ..

--000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b6ede713cc; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0E2FB3800018A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9CE-0002pT-Sm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9CE-0002pK-Gi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from mx76.mail.ru ([94.100.176.91]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne9CB-0001lV-NN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=13908 helo=EFREMOV) by mx76.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ne9C4-0009Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:37:04 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:35:39 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: Re: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6ede6e5a76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Victor, LF Victor, thanks for the report! My captures: OE5ODL OE3GHB and RA3YO trace VOINA UA4WPF UA9CS PA3CPM 73 Andrey > Lots of stations this night: > NA > WPF > GHB > Y > ODL > AGC > > All captured with an active whip 7m high on a steel pole,and a homebrew > (analog) rx > > 73 > > Victor > > PA3FNY > ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="odl.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="odl.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjowNyAxODoyMToxNQAFAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAANjg3AAKgBAABAAAAgAAAAAOgBAABAAAAEwAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAA AAACAAEAAgAEAAAAUjk4AAIABwAEAAAAMDEwMAAAAAAAAAAA/8AAEQgAEwCAAwEhAAIRAQMR Af/bAIQABAMDAwMCBAMDAwUEBAUGCwcGBgYGDQkKCAsQDhEQEA4PDxIUGRUSExgTDw8WHhYY GhscHRwRFR8iHxwhGRwcGwEGBwcJCAkTCgoTKBoWGigoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgo 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([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkhNi-00075v-N5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:20:13 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4751888bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:20:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=d/vf4k6GJvnlT8eACFjRz7A2APq9pKv2SGzAQc2k9pY=; b=QAvqGcHjXPkbrN2ubfIyS/OHnWFQYuxEI577d6S45HBbhjHPML+f3kONya2Scay2zq wTo13qvdR7ilRV2sttm+to7aXNsIlVpJ8TL2gGM86fvwQk3FTIPMFYY9J060IINVGY7i vBOh2I/ssr7kvH4lis8JijBSD3g4tL5AUIDAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Gz4DVdaE5wNl4URecdWNOId9A3jmLpweaJcRV9csNIQfMJbv+QAaxbgc+1GVtnC9Dm T2kQsgT9vOXrm2aJIdEwr+f3+xKG1C6CLwV6h26zwMNe8PBjSdSGqSoNwAoMPIBDJLTU 6RhE0dAuo3htVJ0Qq3bkkAPvyOsxffiZrgCIw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.33.210 with SMTP id i18mr817458bkd.119.1267118404245; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:20:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:19:58 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,TVD_FW_GRAPHIC_ID3=2 Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=00032555971e5f9c4b04806ffe50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55501 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d296.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b86b19d6656 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555971e5f9c4b04806ffe50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f --00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rod Wilkinson Date: 25 February 2010 15:20 Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: Roger Lapthorn Hello Roger, Well, quicker than I thought we=92d be I have some info for you regarding= the possibility of operating on 9kHz. Apparently Ofcoms=92 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006= by Colin Thomas G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothing came of it on that occasion. That has though allowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz. They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is= no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existing licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basis to other active facilities and systems using that part= of the spectrum. We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached during the original enquires to confirm that they remain conten= t with the agreed arrangements. All this, will of course, need to be done prior to the NoV being granted. So it does seem a possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an application from for a Special Research Permit availabl= e at: www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw= 306.pdf Please provide as much detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropriate colleagues. I hope that helps. Vy 73 Rod *Rod Wilkinson* OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk *Ofcom* Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk *Have you changed** **your address recently?** * *Update your details** **on the** **Ofcom **Amateur and Ships** Licensing= ** Service** * * * *http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/** * * * *[image: Ofcom - Office of Communications]* *From:* Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] *Sent:* 23 February 2010 10:33 AM *To:* Rod Wilkinson *Subject:* Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Many thanks Rod. I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson wrot= e: Hello Roger, Many thanks for your very interesting mail. To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating below 9kHz= I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=92 spectrum management team and possi= bly the lawyers too. So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to you as soo= n as possible. But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather than days. Vy 73 Rod PS sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz! *Rod Wilkinson* OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk *Ofcom* Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk *Have you changed** **your address recently?** * *Update your details** **on the** **Ofcom **Amateur and Ships** Licensing= ** Service** * * * *http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/** * * * *[image: Ofcom - Office of Communications]* *From:* Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] *Sent:* 22 February 2010 10:43 PM *To:* Rod Wilkinson *Subject:* Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Dear Rod, On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last few days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago (arou= nd 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and G9BIB)= for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications magazi= ne in 1975. It's a fascinating part of the spectrum to explore. In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amateur= s operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am awar= e, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whistler reception, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (although I believe this has now been replaced by oth= er methods) and some slow data rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interference threat to any of these. At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiation immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and purposes, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so called "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense. Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range ver= y limited. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experimenting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range= at these basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS= 60 or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulati= on modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at bes= t rather than hundreds of kilometres). So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at all?= If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-case basis as at 500kHz? Kind regards Roger Lapthorn G3XBM (500kHz NoV holder) --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received= today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk> Date: 25 February 2010 15:20
Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur= Radio Operation below 9kHz?
To: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>


Hello Roger,

Well, quicker than= I thought we=92d be I have some info for you regarding the possibility of= operating on 9kHz.

Apparently Ofcoms= =92 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006 by Colin Thomas= G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time= there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothin= g came of it on that occasion.

That has though al= lowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no= reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz.= They state that ITU Radio Regs indicat= e that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the= UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for= wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existing licens= ee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on 501-504k= Hz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basis to other= active facilities and systems using that part of the spectrum. We will ne= ed to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached during the= original enquires to confirm that they remain content with the agreed arrangements.=A0 All this, will of course,= need to be done prior to the NoV being granted.

So it does seem a= possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an= application from for a Special Research Permit available at:

www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/class= es/amateur/applications/ofw306.pdf

Please provide as= much detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropri= ate colleagues.

I hope that helps.=

Vy 73

Rod

Ro= d Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Ro= d.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

=A0

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org.uk<= /span>

=A0<= /span>

Have you changed yo= ur address recently?

Update your details on= the Of= com Am= ateur and Ships= Licensing S= ervice

=A0=

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/

=A0=

=A0

=A0

=A0=A0

= From: Roger Lap= thorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 February 2010 10:33 AM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz= ?

=A0

Many thanks Rod.
I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@of= com.org.uk> wrote:

Hello Roger,

=A0

Many thanks for your very interesting mail.

=A0

To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating bel= ow 9kHz I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=92 spectrum management team and possibly the lawyers too.

=A0

So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to yo= u as soon as possible. =A0But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather than days.

=A0

Vy 73

=A0

Rod

PS =A0sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz!=

=A0

Ro= d Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Ro= d.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

=A0

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org.uk<= /span>

=A0<= /span>

Have you changed yo= ur address recently?

Update your details on= the Of= com Licensing S= ervice

=A0=

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/

=A0=

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

= From: Roger Lap= thorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 February 2010 10:43 PM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

=A0

Dear Rod,

On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last= few days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago= (around 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and= G9BIB) for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications magazine in 1975. It's a fasci= nating part of the spectrum to explore.

In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amate= urs operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am= aware, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whistler rec= eption, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (although= I believe this has now been replaced by other methods) and some slow data= rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interfer= ence threat to any of these.

At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur wo= uld, in a traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field= radiation immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intent= s and purposes, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so called "earth mode") or induc= tion and not by radiation in a true radio sense. Attenuation rates are the= refore much higher and potential range very limited. I think some in the= amateur radio community are interested in experimenting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at= these basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRS= S60 or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modu= lation modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at best rather than hundreds of kilometres).=

So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at= all? If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-= by-case basis as at 500kHz?=A0

Kind regards

Roger Lapthorn=A0 G3XBM=A0 (500kHz NoV holder)

--
http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088


****************************= **************************************************************************= ************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise.
**************************************************************************= ****************************************

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088


***************************= **************************************************************************= *************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise.
**************************************************************************= ****************************************
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
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http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
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Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:24:52 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601a4b88203e62ad X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Yet another comment. Today a have find some web page (www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/south_pole/south%20pole.htm) where presented waterpole picture with some signal E ~ 4uV/m near 10kHz. It is dificult to estimate FFT-bandwith with the picture. But full screen is only few seconds. Signals are nice detectable. If this is right then much weaker signal to be detectable in long mode. On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, James Moritz wrote: > > Dear Markus, LF Group, > > I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was > about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz > > One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effective > height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF calibration > point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring sessions on > 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna works out > consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due to > increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequencies. > H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected. Of > course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blown out of > the water... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.80]) by air-me07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME073-8bba4b7e22ff32e; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:34:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C807380000F9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:34:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiLUG-0004I6-W4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiLUG-0004Hx-5b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from msgmmp-3.gci.net ([209.165.130.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiLUD-0005Q2-BC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from D2FCLG81 ([66.58.188.44]) by msgmmp-1.gci.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.03 (built Jun 27 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0KY2002F2Q2R2B90@msgmmp-1.gci.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:52 -0900 (AKST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:55 -0900 From: Roger Brown To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: <83BF80C1876F4B58AE64B25CA9C3E840@D2FCLG81> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Loran A and C Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60504b7e22fd2019 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Laurence, I'll be listening for you on 506 this evening Roger KL7Q BP51HO ----- Original Message ----- From: Laurence KL1X To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: LF: Loran A and C Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK = Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening but low power as Im playing with the matching - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. --Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Laurence,
 
I'll be listening for you on 506 this evening
 
Roger KL7Q
BP51HO
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:42 PM
Subject: LF: Loran A and C

 
Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK =  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening but low power as Im playing with the matching -

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--Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.25]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC092-862d4b838d49377; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:09:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C629C380000E9; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjpoQ-0007eV-79 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjpoP-0007eM-KJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:09 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjpoM-0000QK-TM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:09 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1N880vE010693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:00 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:07:59 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:07:58 +0000 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: Acq0X1BXicQuTKkDTQqpXSAdQVpACw== Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60194b838d471c31 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Jean-Louis and others, On 2010 Feb 22, at 11:59, wrote: > Hi Rik > =20 > In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the elect= ronics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it= was possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some= rods in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the retu= rn audio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow= conversations spying)=20 If this interests you, there's another book on the same subject: Listening= In, by Ernest H. Hinrichs, 148 pp., pub. White Mane Books, Shippensburg,= PA, USA (1996). Hinrichs was a US national of German extraction, fluent in German, and ser= ved with the US Army in WWI intercepting German front-line communications.= His work was with ground current communications, trying to pick up stray= signals from German field telephones. The book describes his WWI experien= ces and gives a reasonable amount of technical detail of the equipment.=20 I seem to recall an assessment of it from the electronics point of view in= the Cave Radio and Electronics Group Journal, but I forget when. I think= John F5VLF wrote it; if you're interested, you could ask him. There are over a dozen copies on AbeBooks, with prices starting at under= EUR 4. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.144]) by air-mb04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB044-a2c34b787dcc10b; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:48:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 411DF38000212; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgnF4-0001zb-23 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgnF3-0001zS-I3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:05 +0000 Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgnF2-0005xr-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:05 +0000 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1EMkjAx018233 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:45 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.bec.4f133b7d (43997) for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (g229081210.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.81.210]) by cia-dd06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD066-abdd4b787d4b390; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:37 -0500 Message-ID: <022B79181CFC4A0EB7964FE9BA4F6C9F@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:46:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60904b787dca1ba5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Henny, you seem to be doing a great job receiving on 500 kHz, while transmitt= ing a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering whether you are just listen= ing during TX breaks, or have special filtering in place to avoid rece= iver overloading and suppress transmitter noise? Either way, well don= e! Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: henny van elst=20 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM To: blacksheep=20 Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden ver= zonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virus= sen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe.= Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt wete= n hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Henny,
 
you seem to be doing a great job = ;receiving on=20 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering&nbs= p;whether=20 you are just listening during TX breaks, or have special fil= tering in=20 place to avoid receiver overloading and suppress  transmitte= r=20 noise? Either way, well done!<= /FONT>
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg

Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu me= t het volgende=20 bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC 14-02.jpg

Opme= rking:=20 Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het ver= zenden of=20 ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de=20 beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen= worden=20 afgehandeld. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="pa3cpm_100214_0342.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pa3cpm_100214_0342.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CAAeAQ4DAREAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQCBQYBAAcI/8QANhAAAgEC BQIEBAUDBAMAAAAAAQIDBBEABRIhMRNRBiJBYRRxgZEjMkKx8BUkoQdS0eE0ksL/xAAaAQAC AwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAECBQAG/8QANxEAAQIEBAQFAwQBBAMBAAAAAQIRAAMhMQQSQVFh cYHwBRMikaGxweEGFDLRQjNSgvEkYnKy/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD89ZHQxVuc5Zl9RXpQ0lZV RwTVU2kpEGZQzncXVb3O4G3OBoq5GkXbKrNlt8x9IqvBMcdJXyTeFfFfh5IaZ5EzHM6tTBGy 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11 Feb 2010 18:19:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A6E5338000204; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiIx-0002us-3I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiIw-0002uj-Oo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:38 +0000 Received: from smtp821.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.250]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiIu-00066d-4W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 52547 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 23:18:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=XU1kWf/yb0aMcCGRXvsYu2n1l2zaA8q7ngo8B1z8vnKlGfV0lTXumR+/mk2tIyO52xj7/I+bWF2VtZqvPqufS4RUAB+5yK1xaieOrPzpf86SaR66SlAqagWDE5+VBrxmPwmx0MzsaBtd6+rulynh9ZFi+AFV27EfCanJSsx1TyY= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp821.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 23:18:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: ALMiB4YVM1mXL.8ircrG3kAvGrd6Zixk85LR3mwFTP85saFMxzJX7sZ37GQqmlfGCSu_.hCAg3a4x6kJgqzk3_Gn6GjXthGa3eIczifAAG8.F8mh82SM3UCEfcUxwedgDJf6AVgz.WiElT6A.e4o.mGGqMej.IjLU0u1VNqSh3YuF3QDx8KRkNbY.onnx5iGdFFcj4WhFEib52eVnYF7y0MauoFRiQYKqQfGxbIuZAKPamNgqtyZu7H7Nb5hu5v5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> In-Reply-To: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405d4b749089412a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF group, Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now, as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in this mode ;-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.219]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6ee4f832d; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:06:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07375380003A3; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:06:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9d6-0002xB-2R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:05:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9d5-0002x2-Nx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:04:59 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne9d3-00021l-Bh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:04:59 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXH006YOBC1DJ@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:04:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:04:42 +0100 From: henny van elst To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RN3AGC Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60db4b6ee4f61e93 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Adrey,tnx for the nice capture. the problem here is rec.and transmit on the same time,hi, best 73s henny cpm........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: LF: Re: 137 > Hello Victor, LF > > Victor, thanks for the report! > My captures: > OE5ODL > OE3GHB and RA3YO > trace VOINA > UA4WPF > UA9CS > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey > > > >> Lots of stations this night: >> NA >> WPF >> GHB >> Y >> ODL >> AGC >> >> All captured with an active whip 7m high on a steel pole,and a homebrew >> (analog) rx >> >> 73 >> >> Victor >> >> PA3FNY >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 02/06/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b6b16271eb; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:47:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4EFED3801E4D4; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6Jj-0005DG-CJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6Jj-0005D7-1k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from smtp06.online.nl ([194.134.42.51]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd6Jh-000322-Ed for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from smtp06.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp06.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9696196010 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp06.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:31 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp06.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b6b105f6c11 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hearing PA0LCE with tjoep and PA3EGO QRSS3, 73 Victor PA3FNY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b69d80921e; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B471B38000041; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:09:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclWf-00069m-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclWf-00069d-FM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: from smtp828.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.163]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NclWd-0002WR-Lx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 73111 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2010 20:08:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=f06FbCG0DwhZiXtWvvo5+yA91NIInp9TWeswFePTXwIyjWlQhu20J/3PH/dMyYMO65wLLr9FYV03PMJ4OnmaEIG1dCZn3WlLbuwBWv/KCdnq752UvW1oY4DEUNWljc+AAbTOhyjszp+mzwmaqHr+kYGAnJt0V1aPzQsIf9tAWMs= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp828.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2010 20:08:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: dFgbEnIVM1l5etW0UE0uwkH6lyAujbYVcgCBte3v3nOyCPuSADsReH.hRAXvXuWDoTZ0bs0gJ08XlEpZsVxl5rrDlPS5KySvpLfqk05ltFaMl1xNvrQtyyy.DuF1qNje7GteQUe28fTWZpiZkcbHgbpWnaxX3CUYrjQVznV0SQX1hzF1GOPblS9.Q8Pd0l3QiKpbcPL8UIpCo3xpbjAzIsYnSDS9LZPOX4WdcNJzyNfcsCCd4QPHGzwwxwdAiHNnPmTPKyd.63RLY8p3qLLvQ0e0E6C6yp2kIBaQqFC9jUUnkAbWwACdGVOug21RPKJIz5g- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:08:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b69d8052e8f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Stefan, LF Group, DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: LF: test signal wanted Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on=20 137.7?=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF072-8bf24b819f352cb; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:01:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9A6CF380000A2; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjIuZ-0007Zq-Vd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjIuZ-0007Zh-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjIuX-0004xF-7l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.194]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1LL02kJ020043 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:00:02 -0500 Received: from KKneu (f052059229.adsl.alicedsl.de [78.52.59.229]) by mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 82CD9E0000B8 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: "KKorn" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:59:59 +0100 Message-ID: <487F32CC299E449E9BF6A587237903B3@KKneu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 000000003757D0230826FB4CB42CCD71FD3FDF1584682600 Importance: Normal x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c24b819ed131b6 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b819f337dd6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan keine Lizenz unter 9kHz n=F6tig. =20 73 de Klaus DJ6LB ~~~ No trees were killed in the sending of this message, ~~~ ~~~ but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced ~~~= =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; 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Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:38:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ABB33380000AF; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NidLS-0007xr-4u for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NidLR-0007xi-P0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:17 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NidLP-000443-1p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:17 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2010 00:37:09 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db50c59.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.12.89] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2010 01:37:09 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+epAYm2BmevAABvSA17arH/8LLa9vSOMwjO9xYNw kSqLS78NsJJdDv Message-ID: <009301cab1c4$d5c1ba70$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: References: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100219-0, 19.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b7f2f093f03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks for 599 dear Marcin. This was my first X band QSO with longwave, I did. Many thanks. The sifgnal was QSBing between very good and nothing! Please QSL via bureau. My QSL is sure. 73 Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Hello Veit I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? > > Veit DL7ET From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.88]) by air-da06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA062-86164b6f19da367; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:51:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4FFB03800017A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD9x-0003hm-8r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD9w-0003hd-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:08 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeD9u-0003QY-FD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:08 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArUEAPunbktZ8f0c/2dsb2JhbACBa405xXeEVAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,423,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="290902097" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.253.28]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 07 Feb 2010 19:50:37 +0000 Message-ID: <004601caa82e$d058e850$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:50:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: G3KEV_OZ8NJ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60584b6f19d95499 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Lubos for the report from OK2 and sig picture. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:14 PM Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ Hello LF! There are nice signals on 600m band. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Lubos for the report from OK2 and sig=20 picture.
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 7:14=20 PM
Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ

Hello LF!
There are nice signals on 600m band.
=
Lubos,=20 OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-b5134b6e9896380; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:40:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BFE138000156; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4Xx-0001fD-Vl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4Xx-0001f4-Jv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4Xu-0008HS-Vm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17AdDr8012951 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:39:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:09 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6e989444fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, > A receiving loop will give the best signal i assume, but it is not very > easy to handle if one is always /p. There is floating a lot of untested lore around, regarding reception antennas. When I started listening at LF 8 years ago, I was convinced that loops were the way to go. I spent a whole winter season to get them to work, but failed due to local noise pick up. I decided that it was impossible to get proper results in a city location and almost gave up. As a last resort and just for the fun of it, I build an active whip and much to my surprise it worked. At the time I have made a lot of tests comparing active whips and loops on a field location. They were aligned for the same output on a local NDB on 399.5 kHz. The results were that I could not find any difference between the loop and the whip, except the directive properties of the loop. The poor results of the loop at home were due to the fact that the house acts as a faraday cage for the electric field. So local noise in the electric field is attenuated, whilst local noise in the magnetic field is not. At 400 kHz the attenuation was 30 dB. In a rf-quiet location both antenna types perform equally well. The whip has been used almost 7 years now as an ongoing experiment with rather unexpected results. I have received with aural copy the now closed down NDB on Easter Island in the Pacific. But I am convinced that a loop at a good location should have given similar results. And yes, a whip is much easier to handle when going portible; especially when it is housed in a piece of plastic pipe measuring 30 x 60 mm. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB021-a18f4b89154230a; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:51:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 51C8D380000C1; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:51:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM7M-0007yj-W1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM7M-0007yZ-CR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlM7K-0004hE-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 27164 invoked by uid 507); 27 Feb 2010 13:49:38 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 13:49:38 +0100 Message-ID: <201002271349450019.11B4E35F@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:49:45 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b89154113d5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 >Electrical/Mechanical aids are only necessary above say 20 KCS >de Mal/G3KEV Make that 17.2. Think of SAQ/M0BMU. John F5VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.13]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE064-5eb94b83967f138; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:49:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4AD7F3800009E; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqR3-00085w-D2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqR2-00085n-SX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:04 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqR0-0000mi-39 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:04 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8mhgZ009735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8mhPk009732 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d4b83967e083d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought > them to resonance at 1.5kHz [...] Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of > 15m. [...] now try to repeat the same test with both antennas outside. you will find that the coupling to wires within your home enhances the signal, this principle is used in mine comminications on lf. you should still be able to span 15m, but the signal should be much weaker. btw, this is one route that you can take to transmit vlf, but coupling your transmitter to big commercial strictures might be illegal (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b82fa81254; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1C18938000104; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njg2s-0005Bx-IB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njg2s-0005Bo-3L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.34.165]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2m-0005kh-N5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from [212.54.34.146] (helo=smtp15.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2g-0003FR-Sp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:14 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=P43000) by smtp15.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2e-0007hn-9F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:12 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000001cab407$e4215180$ac63f480$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq0B+OZx1kFeIDNTNaJ8zgQ3Q9QsA== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njg2e-0007hn-9F X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-4.397, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, UPPERCASE_50_75 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b82fa7e0308 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PA3EGO Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS Heard by: GM4ISM, LA6TPA, M0LMH, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV 73s willem pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= PA3EGO
Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS
Heard by: GM4ISM, LA6TPA, M0LMH, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV

73s willem pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b879854204; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:45:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 412BE38000092; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:45:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkwk4-0003fZ-EV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkwk3-0003fQ-WA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:15 +0000 Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.98]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkwk1-0003Zu-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:15 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (81.235.167.68) by pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (7.3.140.3) (authenticated as u33233109) id 4B5C64F70046D030 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:44:06 +0100 Message-ID: <4B8797E9.9060500@telia.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:44:09 +0100 From: "Johan H. Bodin" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> In-Reply-To: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b8798531b26 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Jay, Marcus, LF, jrusgrove@comcast.net wrote: ... > There appeared to be a noticeable quiet spot in the > waterfall between ~ 8 and 9 kHz. I didn't investigate > if this was an anomoly in the system or if there happens > to be a quiet spot at that frequency. When sferics are weak or absent, I often see a "dark band" in that region, even with a nonresonant antenna (for example an E-field probe which is "flat"). Markus Vester wrote: ... > Part of the discrepancy > could be that published figures inevitably include the energy of the > distict spherics, which may well contribute the dominant part of the > average noise power. Yes, and that is probably why ITU's published figures show such a huge difference between summer and winter. The radio spectrum emitted by lightning discharges has a broad "hump" around 10kHz so it is a good idea to hurry up with the experiments now before the northern hemisphere moves into the QRN season. ;-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD012-8b754b855ac114; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB90C3800010A; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006QG-Rf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006Q7-Fm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKXt-0005qE-JC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OGv55i058178 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:06 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00374 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:08 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b855ab5782f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz = 35 Ohm > 137kHz = 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.). > The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 = 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-) > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the > losses. It will increse loss:-) > But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a > 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more > convenient value. True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway. I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m (difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100 km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise). Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right. But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate resistance on lamda=30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part). 1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-( Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.93]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b6748271a8; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:31:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CDD2538000307; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3qA-0003NV-T6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3qA-0003NM-Gh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f209.google.com ([209.85.220.209]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc3q8-0001vA-DP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so1830875fxm.4 for ; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:29:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=htZ/DPyLHgON9r4e4wfve+fXuf1ImIQ1+Mf9fsOdDnU=; b=UAbk15ConBmH46gUCKCK3/wkG5p10Ew8ttbPZviGjWCb/piu92RenE9jXkSxjHoE/o qwW4t2rmunZGvNVqR58+j0EtlwCz67A9n2IacaLU0RBZSSl5QfZaHCoZ2HH+Pay3MVM8 ciiUEzkwrgslXOd8yBxu8LtrabqWk5/6qZIKA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=syMlq75TLKWtDC5DtKFc4P2FFHRWu69jz3hiWcOCMMJGZjuJMxn3hZyJvciqlhVpdc +ig3cVFgxaCEx5Qz0/PG7NnB3bwkAaQj0UOJTHqVGwEGRXHpMogv3mW+ONb7gRCmWqxw 5v9ErnoMfm6BL5MWy749LQ5ig3qmMriF/dO6M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.187.139 with SMTP id l11mr635838hbh.96.1265059780612; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:29:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: G4JNT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405d4b6748245065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See if you can decode it - the plot looks as if the signal strong enough. The PSK31 appears every 15 minutes at hh:04:30, hh:19:30 hh:34:30 and hh:49:30 Andy www.g4jnt.com 2010/2/1 Lubos OK2BVG > Hello LF! > I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700. > > Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od= spole=E8nosti > Microsoft Zaregistrovat > --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
See if you can decode it -=A0the plot looks as if the signal strong= enough.
=A0
The PSK31 appears every 15 minutes at hh:04:30, hh:19:30 hh:34:30 and= hh:49:30
2010/2/1 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com>
Hello LF!
I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregistrovat
<= br> --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.81]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF061-8bed4b699de7276; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:01:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B78D2380001F5; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nchdx-0004p2-KG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nchdx-0004ot-6n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nchdv-0000g1-BK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13FxoFq030219 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:59:50 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:59:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:59:49 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: optic RX_1 Thread-Index: AcqkCNpGt+IduJZAR5CirjCxAM/NqQAXhQqsACAJ2pI= References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.155117 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045" Subject: LF: optic RX_1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b699de3316f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear group,=20 In the picture in this mail i show the circuit of the simpelst way to tran= sform the optic signal back to an alternating voltage that can be connecte= d to the RX imput. It is the version with a phototransistor. This way is= working and a good start point for further (individual) experiments, e.g.= if noise really decreases significantly... The potentiometer should be adjusted to a miximum signal on the s-meter,= depending to the input impedance of the cable (cable + RX). It can be rep= laced later by a fixed resistor. The 100k resistor can be replaced by an= inductance and adjusted to maximum strenght and so on. First, the circuit= should be supplied by a battery and later by the power supply of the RX.= So it can be seen if there comes an additional noise by the supply. I hav= e integrated this little circuit in my K2, to minimise the effort of cable= s and housings. A simple switch can be used to change the input (optic /= coax). So one can compare both transmission paths... Due to the snow the post has problems to reach my house and so i still do= not have the SFH250V (photodiode). But soon i will try it this way and wi= ll see if noise even can be even decreased... =20 73 es gl ;-) Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjIPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEADwAAAExGOiBvcHRpYyBSWF8xAGUE AQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAEAA7ADEAAwBlAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABAAOwAxAAMAZQEBCYABACEA AAAwQUY4NjY4NUY0MzRDRDQ5QkMyMzFCMTEwQzg5OTQzQQAhBwEDkAYASA4AADgAAAADADYAAAAA AEAAOQBFQCLq6aTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAExGOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1I U1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMxNTU5NDlaLTMyNwAAAB4ASQABAAAAMgAAAEFXOiBM RjogTG9vcCBwcmVhbXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIgLyBvcHRpY2FsIGxpbmsAAABAAE4A7/VNGmuk ygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAA AGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hl 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psJOAMvQcuAeAAEwAQAAAA8AAABvcHRpYyBSWF8xLmpwZwAAQAAHMOFREMHppMoBQAAIMOFREMHp pMoBHgADNwEAAAAEAAAAanBnAAMABTcBAAAAHgAHNwEAAAAPAAAAb3B0aWMgUlhfMS5qcGcAAAMA Czf/////HgAONwEAAAAMAAAAaW1hZ2UvcGpwZWcAyyo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD083-8b924b8998f237c; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23E953800008F; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUtC-0003sP-IU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUtC-0003sG-1x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlUtA-00075W-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.133]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1RMBjP8006687 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:11:45 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 44B43E000094 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:11:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9C37FBB31AF6404980D3039622DBE323@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:11:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33854b8998a00f34 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4b8998f11dde X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jim, LF, yes I'm aware of the fact that the shielding from trees etc is more si= gnificant at lower frequency. Their ohmic conductance becomes a better= shunt in comparison with decreasing capacitive admittance, somewhat= similar to a C-R highpass equivalent circuit. There used to be two be= autiful 15 m high fir trees in the vicinity of our house. At 137 kHz,= I measured a ~ 15% increase in effective height when the trees were= deeply frozen, but the effect on 9 kHz may have been more severe. A= couple of years ago our neighbours had these trees chopped down, good= for LF but otherwise sad. In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating= about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. heig= ht). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m= fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the lap= top soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screensh= ot, along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patch= ed for 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at http:/= /freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range was= 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No noiseblankin= g was attempted at the time. If you look at the Spectrogram strips, you can see that the first (1.6= km) and third (6.0 km) images have a much lower absolute receive leve= l. At first I thought something was wrong with the receive antenna, un= til I realized that this was purely due to these sites being in a fore= sted area. I have now rigged up SpecLab again for VLF reception. The Russian Alph= a beacons seem to be usefiul calibration markers, the nearest one is= currently about 20 dB SNR here in a 42 Hz FFT. Does anybody in the gr= oup have information about their EMRP, or has someone attempted to mea= sure their fieldstrength in Europe? Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Moritz=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:51 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Dear Markus, LF Group, I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise le= vel was about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effe= ctive height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF cali= bration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring se= ssions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna wor= ks out consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is= due to increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower fr= equencies.=20 H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected.= Of course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is bl= own out of the water... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Jim, LF,
 
yes I'm aware of the fact that the sh= ielding from=20 trees etc is more significant at lower frequency. Their = ;ohmic=20 conductance becomes a better shunt in comparison with=20 decreasing capacitive admittance, somewhat similar to a C-R highp= ass=20 equivalent circuit. There used to be two beautiful 15 m high= fir trees=20 in the vicinity of our house. At 137 kHz, I measured a ~=20 15% increase in effective height when the trees were deeply= frozen,=20 but the effect on 9 kHz may have been more severe. A couple of years= ago our=20 neighbours had these trees chopped down, good for LF but otherwise=20 sad.
 
In April 2003, I attempted to tr= ansmitt an=20 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating about 1 microwatt from my normal LF= =20 antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. height). I drove around and sto= pped in=20 different places, putting up a 6m fishing pole with a wire,= connected=20 to a resonant circuit and the laptop soundcard. Each time I took= a short=20 Spectrogram full-band screenshot, along with a narrowband capture= from a=20 special Argo version, patched for 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly= of the=20 screenshots is at  http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif<= /A>.=20 Maximum detection range was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive= =20 nearfield. No noiseblanking was attempted at the time.
 
If you look at the Spectrogram strips= , you can see=20 that the first (1.6 km) and third (6.0 km) images have a muc= h lower=20 absolute receive level. At first I thought something was wrong wi= th the=20 receive antenna, until I realized that this was purely due to the= se sites=20 being in a forested area.
 
I have now rigged up SpecLab aga= in=20 for VLF reception. The Russian Alpha beacons seem to=20 be usefiul calibration markers, the nearest one is currently abou= t 20 dB=20 SNR here in a 42 Hz FFT. Does anybody in the group have informati= on about=20 their EMRP, or has someone attempted to measure their fieldstreng= th in=20 Europe?
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 26, 20= 10 6:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noi= se=20 level

Dear Markus, LF Group,

I checked the noise level again= during the=20 daytime, and the noise level was about 6dB lower than last night, i.= e. about=20 13uV/m per sqrtHz

One possibility for the discrepancy between= results=20 is that the effective height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compa= red to the=20 LF calibration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength mea= suring=20 sessions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna= works out=20 consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due= to=20 increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequenc= ies.=20
 
H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affect= ed. Of=20 course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blow= n out of=20 the water...

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de=20 M0BMU


------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB081-85f44b77c02b8d; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:19:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3B3F538000120; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgacG-0001Ao-N3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgacG-0001Af-7X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgacE-0002e1-Av for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXT00G9RR61YC@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:18:02 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:18:00 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b77c0292097 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ)" --Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC 14-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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xx6w5xoSlDHU4PWXpwpJfnABdesVV3Nd4O8r5xK7brGjpzk+mCu80185CSl5zzhnvHnJ00wS M864XaGgzg5oYK5f6wWtys5cLo6fWKR1tivLhaujzjLlk1GLXFSIRZQcAcrXoY5MAAZsihxr OWK1TMUANiIROEJMNBthwktERDoJFFVjOxzW+tH1TJawMclSA0aIQLoDWcilEhfQLv1rvwGf /9k= --Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF022-5ee74b86dd95196; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C453380000AE; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkkJa-0007cY-0R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkkJZ-0007cP-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:05 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkkJV-0008OM-Fw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:05 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1PKSfEs022127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1PKSfa9022124 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.538 () AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b86dd93210d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received > today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] > They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for > frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required > as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the > WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.216]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI021-eaba4b718c575e; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:24:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 479E6380000B9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nessi-0003xr-M2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nessi-0003xi-9O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nessf-0002df-RI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so195826bwz.30 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qyCgJLmJji/Gv/WMJXPqABpcL/9Kpl+3BSPgb+LWuv8=; b=TO1KoJ1IakEpWlfUfm/rRRLTARKvNHremuFL59HF+JVQMHyfsYLu25Tr79tGIXWLle xEMklo1suJdxEjfkHdGs+l5ZCne84FbKig+iZlhw2ATxZXUhBOJCkt5vxykoGvuaB1kA jhFN/8TaXgTqspihb7ltUBa3EIScEe6VBaCeY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=xT5uUiw8mS7Wwt7Sg0PRr8i3hnG2UBQUGr8LhTEfvwpCapuMvDcCQ5umb2R/AzCyWL PHbYvx0Vm86ku0wmknb1CHgG8ygvMO27d5pC1oSppNX8qc9Zu509J8aY18sw+Ihtqni8 mP6BhnDSUrtctftL/rqm14SSMFvsFDxJKc9iA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.8.5 with SMTP id f5mr4523383bkf.59.1265732639534; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:23:59 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002090823t46429f73w314d13b6f438464b@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DX on 600m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d84b718c556eee X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well done Albert - a nice contact. Good to see a CW contact partly as a result of helpful data from earlier WSPR beaconing. 73s Roger G3XBM On 9 February 2010 15:46, Albert wrote: > To all, > > This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in > FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 > kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a > couple of nights. > > 73, Albert PA0A > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Albert - a nice contact. Good to see a CW contact partly as a re= sult of helpful data from earlier WSPR beaconing.

73s
Roger G3XB= M

On 9 February 2010 15:46, Albert <westberg@xs4all.nl<= /a>> wrote:
To all,

This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in= FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3= kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon= for a couple of nights.

73, Albert PA0A




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b83145e41; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23087380000DB; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhlt-0006kD-NU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhls-0006k4-Ka for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:00 +0000 Received: from outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com ([64.136.55.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njhlp-0006jV-Hn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:00 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juno.com; s=alpha; t=1266881569; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:From; b=aQklCkwfsRngbXSapE8RtZo/McrxIUaJNZzPhxePwmq5pUUhzolubf3Zotn93NdaJ dC68Q4s9GrqzA+2Fi9irbqbTQv1ZTypLl1i0wOiarpfVAr4QR+XKX/NQrFCs1NhcTs PTiJtEpCpXOyWREe1d+eHouPoPcq/F9hcTG1iJN4= X-UOL-TAGLINE: true Received: from outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABF2GE92ALD2CQ2 for (sender ); Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:32:08 -0800 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewBL/fyqGQeqqoRMTvuXJBhVsSaxy+a2fpQ== Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m03.vgs.untd.com (jqueuemail) id P7EPD54T; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:31:27 PST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:31:12 -0500 Message-ID: <20100222.183112.2212.2.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-12,14-16,18,21,23,25-30,32-41,43-44,46-47,49-50,54-55,58-59,61-78,80-85,87-94,96,98-100,103-146,148-149,151-152,154-157,159-435,436-32767 From: riese-k3djc@juno.com X-UNTD-BodySize: 34222 X-ContentStamp: 98:49:1611095288 X-MAIL-INFO:387878ac557819ec78d5e578fc2121d1b5dc6d8d2165f161916901ecb5699ca11d4d0dacf925c5395d78e9b1b1086c0c2805317cf5f57ca918115cd1a8b139b881952c3958d98d4c9d888868c84d59b5911ce89169c5c539ada8f531d8add99da14828bc25f5a8cc1848d5b17d1c216d7d6d2d0065004149008d2c4c8869a578f18c3c55e9cce11c55d5257919196d35ec450849a9f59dad5c18ad18d1a818dd6108853dcddc4188b94c99c84935b5bccd9545192ca99518e8dc5cd8d8dcb9bc8cbcd9d8ecc988a9c9d5d97989ddb59c313dd8e8c1682d09a19c5dc1594d31e8b1cca5acb16c9c7d08ace585acec X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com|riese-k3djc@juno.com X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d275.1 ; domain : juno.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b83145c4ea4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?=20 the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter of the Pipe ?? I kinda remember something about that some years ago Bob K3DJC On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe writes: Pete, what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. 73, Rik Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik So how do I load it? I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400 turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------ ____________________________________________________________ Nutrition Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=3Dnvpx1CaT8PmZGpQB-dmvTAAAJ1= D5rfaR-77IPsUFbn2LcZ2XAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= =3D ----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?
the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter<= /DIV>
of the Pipe  ?? I kinda remember something about that some years= =20 ago
 
Bob K3DJC
 
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20 writes:
Pete,=
 
what about putting a large= (1..10nF) cap=20 from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the required= inductance=20 with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss=20 resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap needs to= handle the=20 high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780=20 Watt.
A ready available source of= HV caps is=20 RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m= you=20 would 10 to 100m cable.
 
73, Rik
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 23:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:= RE: LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz

Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil= so it=20 would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out bef= ore=20 melting.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about= 100=20 Watts of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of= the=20 RSGB designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible.....= ..=20 there is a lot of pontificating on this reflector a= bout=20 this subject but I am looking for a practical method of loadi= ng a=20 wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels=20 above there are LF stations who may cooperate in doing= an RX=20 test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or=20 M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule= =20 fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the= =20 answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)......=20 anyone?? 
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe= =20 <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

From:=20 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE:= LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 Februar= y,=20 2010, 21:24

Pete= ,
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2= mm has a=20 resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil= doen't get=20 hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.<= /DIV>
 
73, Rik  ON7YD= -=20 OR7T
 
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 201= 0=20 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwer= p:=20 RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load= my=20 inv "L"  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt= audio=20 amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air= cored=20 former is 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driv= en by=20 about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pr= etty=20 hot!!!!! Probably red hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon,=20 22/2/10, James Cowburn=20 <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From:=20 James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subjec= t: RE:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
= Date:=20 Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung betw= een K2=20 and Everest summits and fed from
base camp=20 below?



-----Original Message-----
From= : owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /A>
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org] On=20 Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010=20 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US= below=20 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radi= ate a=20 signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren= =20 K2ORS
             = ;=20   WD2XGJ
          &nbs= p;=20     WD2XSH/23
       =  =20       WE2XEB/2
      &n= bsp;=20         WE2XGR/1



On= Mon,=20 Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>=20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= =20 probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he di= d=20 approach the regulator at one time
maybe around 2001/= 2 when=20 Geri was doing his tests the answer as I=20 remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are no= t=20 allocated by International Treaty but we
control all= =20 frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will no= t=20 be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
&= gt; I=20 believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things= may be=20 different
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know wh= ether=20 an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould= G4WKL=20 who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>
> Alan= =20 G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10,=20 Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>=20 wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.= de>
>>=20 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,=20 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>>= ; And=20 do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries=20 in
>> europe as
>> well? What about th= e=20 UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If= such a=20 grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>= ;>=20 a big
>> antenna without the problems we have= on LF=20 (getting the
>> wire high above
>> gro= und).=20 So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>&= gt;=20 you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is= =20 clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB.=20 But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about bu= ilding=20 an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x= 20m,=20 is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m= in=20 a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (w= hich=20 will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i th= ink)=20 mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> cou= ld=20 be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no= earth=20 radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on= some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed= =20 point,
>> that would be a first=20 step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be= bad=20 but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
&g= t;>=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance=20 and
>> make some
>> contacts at very= low=20 frequencies, although it would be much
>> easie= r=20 on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so,= if=20 one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>&g= t;=20 the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it?= =20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has= =20 anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as=20 well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wi= th the=20 ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>= >=20 expect. But
>> that are=20 dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>>= ;=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;=20 Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger=20 Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequen= cy,=20 widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs= =20 are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There= =20 are
>> references to how these work in
>&= gt;=20 the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from=20 the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the inte= rnet I=20 believe) and on one of the
>> German ham=20 sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>= ;=20   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a=20 fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal=20 processing technology and reasonable (amateur
&g= t;>=20 levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine ac= hieved=20 worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>&= gt;=20 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and=20 antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of= =20 kms.
>>
>>   73s
>> &nbs= p;=20 Roger=20 G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>=20   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>&= gt;
>>=20   Hello=20 Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>>= That=20 sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find=20 some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near= field=20 (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> fie= ld=20 to
>>=20 test.
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>&= gt;=20 configurations for that
>> range and got the id= ea=20 that one could use a forrest as an
>>=20 antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s= =20 meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>>= =20 parallel. You do not need to have that area beside=20 your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the= wire=20 and nobody will care about it.
>>
>>= Since=20 summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna=20 mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill= with=20 excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also= =20 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to= 12m=20 above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from=20 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>>= =20 tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem bu= t with=20 bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But= if one=20 would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would= =20 be
>>=20 interesting...
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>=20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far=20 i
>> think=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What= is=20 your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>= ;>=20 commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are= there=20 some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73= ,=20 Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>>= PS: One=20 can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&g= t;>=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 ________________________________
>>
>>=
>>
>>=20 Von: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 im Auftrag von Horst=20 St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet:= Mo=20 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>    = An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
&= gt;>
>>
>>=20 Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in=20 QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
= >>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>= ;>=20 there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= =20 in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is=20 free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I= could=20 not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
&g= t;>=20 while I got
>> a letter which confirmed=20 that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So= there=20 nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licen= ce.=20 You do not
>> need=20 one.
>>
>>
>>
>> The= re is=20 no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= =20 bandwith or=20 power.
>>
>>
>>
>>= Hard to=20 believe in german, but obviously=20 true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My= QTH=20 is Siegburg=20 JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>>= =20 Horst
>>
>>=20 ________________________________________________________= ___
>>
>>=20 NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF=20 sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 --
>>
>>
>>
>>  = ; http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>=20   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>&g= t;
>>=20   http= ://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>>=20 G3XBM    GQRP 1678    =20  ISWL
>>=20 G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>=20 --
>> ----------------------------
>>= =20 Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr= =20 Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>>=20 Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>&g= t;=20 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
&g= t;>=20 Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)62= 21=20 546405
>>
>>=20 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>= ;>
>
>



 


________________________= ____________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health= . Click now to study nutrition!
----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b69d90d24c; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:14:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9C9E338000191; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclbB-0006Eu-VF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclbB-0006El-Ie for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nclb8-0002Zr-Tl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KDDxT018664 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:14 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:13:13 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:13 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wAAowtp References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.200033 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b69d90b7a50 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrey, tnx very much! =20 Your signal is visible at the DF6NM grabber. Here it is also visible, but= just "T". Hight above gnd seems not to be optimal and there is a wet tree= near the ant. DCF39 is just S5... But i can see that there is something,= nice!=20 =20 Perhaps i have to make some measurements when the active (E- Field) antenn= a is not mounted to a big metallic tube. Then, i expect, the capacity of= the ground "electrode"(between far field and gnd and between gnd and eart= h) becomes more relevant. With a coax cable and/or a metallic tower, the= ground electrode has much more C against anything and can be seen as infi= nite. So just the C of the input wire is relevant. But not with a totally= decoupled system... =20 73! 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AAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQU5EUkVZLFROWFZFUllNVUNIWU9VUlNJR05B TElTVklTSUJMRUFUVEhFREY2Tk1HUkFCQkVSSEVSRUlUSVNBTFNPVklTSUJMRSxCVVRKVVNUIlQi SElHSFRBQk9WRUdORFNFRQAAAAACAX8AAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBB RDBERDg1RTgyQTFBREZARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0 LmRlPgAAeSo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI073-ead04b7009f1116; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:56:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B216738000100; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:56:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeT8W-0000CK-Hx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeT8W-0000CB-6e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeT8V-0000yb-5k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o18CsZ49021806 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:54:35 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cd6.619e3994 (43834) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.156]) by cia-dc02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC027-d4334b70097b69; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:30 -0500 Received: from webmail-d084 (webmail-d084.sim.aol.com [205.188.181.39]) by smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMD032-d4334b70097b69; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 30603-STANDARD Received: from 194.138.39.52 by webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.39) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_AOL_TAGS=0.281,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Solar Flares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b7009ef76c3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear LF, the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today) are= very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also a vi= sible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz. 73 de Markus, DF6NM =20 http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm =20 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Dear LF,
 
the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today= ) are very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also= a visible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz.
 
73 de Markus, DF6NM
 
 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-me05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME054-8bb34b86f42eec; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:05:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C2660380001AB; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkloq-0008FJ-B5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nklop-0008FA-NL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:27 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nklom-0000QW-Pj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:27 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PM4MY3019544 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:23 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:22 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:21 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2TpB0zrcp/Lj/SmOkb4RsHXAl2wAA2Xm3 References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.215719 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB" Subject: AW: LF: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55511 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b86f42b3768 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion!=20 =20 Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint wha= t is happening here in the last days ;-)) I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on 8,9= kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my "electronic-= lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and resonating that= coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and heating problems).= Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be right, i will try a= transmission on sunday morning but that is still uncertain and i would te= ll it to the group before. I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX there.= Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on low= frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Hi Stefan, LF,=20 There is a VLF Group at the following :-=20 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ The members discuss & are= involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informative= group. 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmit= ters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in= this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achie= ving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them= for some tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGgAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGIHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFscz8A9gcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAXAAQAFQAEADABASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAFwAEABYA BAAxAQEJgAEAIQAAAEM3MENBMDYxMDI1NDY3NEJBOUY2NTc5MDQ1N0JFMjM1AP8GAQOQBgDcFAAA OAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOuPLnxmtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABj PURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MjIwNDIxWi0xMTU3AAAAHgBJAAEA AAAaAAAAUmU6IExGOiBWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAEAATgAAvY7jTbbKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+k vqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABv d25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVS 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MAILINMB083-a7d94b687577352; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:56:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4A31E3801C1A2; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:32:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNWd-0006fQ-Ub for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNWd-0006fH-JY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNWb-0001C5-JA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsgEAKv+Z0tOlvOe/2dsb2JhbACNEgPMVIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,392,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295909815" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.150.243.158]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 18:30:45 +0000 Message-ID: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:30:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b686fcf38c8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where= are the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! I thought EU was progressive !! G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Presently active in cw qso mode, seve= ral PA stns=20 plus 2 LA stns. Where are the French and German stns? not to mention= Marconi=20 !!!!!
I thought EU was progressive !!
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE024-5ea94b689b29287; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:37:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EC83638000190; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQQ8-0007i0-PN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQQ8-0007hr-Af for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcQQ6-0002Lv-F7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from COL122-W43 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:36:19 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:36:19 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 21:36:19.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[C19D17B0:01CAA44F] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_" Subject: LF: EI0CF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b689b261afd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_" --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Finbar, LF! I watched your CW QSO on 502.500kHz. You signal was nice, with small QSB.= I was not able to unerstand the call of the other station, becouse his si= gnal was very unstable. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Finbar, LF!
I watched your CW QSO on 502.500kHz. You signal was= nice, with small QSB. I was not able to unerstand the call of the other= station, becouse his signal was very unstable.

73!

Lubos,= OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1= , d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_-- --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100202_EI0CF.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAiARkDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwClII 6g80laemWOp3kdxcWVm1wtvH87hc+WPUe/50m0tWBUa1lhtIrlwAspIjB5LAdTiq4JBBHBFbM/h3 XXgtbuSwnZbohYNq5L8ZGAPaq0eh6pJOYRp9yrDlt0TAIM4JPHA4P5UlOL6jszPpVUu4UdScCkrT k8PaxFL5R0y7ZiocbIWYEEZzkCm2luCTexnOpR2RsZUkHFNrRs9Ivbm3uLqO1eSG2Deaf+eZAz8w qxc6JfW/h9dWubfy4p51COwwXBUsCvtS5o7XFYo2FmL2SZTIE8uF5ee+0ZxVU+1aGk6JqWstL/Z9 u0vkgGQggbQf8mqt5avZ3BhdkfABDocqwI6g9xTum7AQU5wNxZQQhY7c1Z0vTLrWNRhsLKPzLiYk IucdBk/oKZe2j2N/cWcnLwStExHcqcf0o5le3UCvRXTp4M1l4orVdOLX06GdIywDhAQOmffP4VhS WNxa6mbG4t3FwsnltEBls9MD1PpSU4vRMdmQwwS3EyQwozyOcKqjJJpro8bskisrqcFWGCDW5H4d 8RWOriO2029FwkpjjcQMATyMgkY/Gptc0DxJJc/a77SpN8jCPfAm4O3T+HPJpe0htcfLLsYdxY3N rb29xPCUiuFLRMSPmA61AVYKGI+U5ANdnqHhfWD4Vtppbe4lnjdIhaCNi9sGDHJA5G7CnB9ayG0v UbXSTbSaPdCW4mXy3kt2BJwThOOvBzQqkHsxcr7GNDbzXBYQxPJtG5tozgVHXQaXoniK3u3eC0ub Py4meWaeEqiIOpOR0qS98Ja/ca/PbQ6PdF3kZlxEQpXOd2emKHUgt2Pll2Obop80TwTSQyDDxsVY ehBwa37TSnu/CU8ljYXFzcrcJ50iRswVMNgDHuOfwqm0ldiSvsc7T5IZIghdGUONykjqPatK28Pa vdyt5Wk3e0Kzn9y2FUZ7n6fieK038G+KLu0SUadNJEioIwTzgrngH8M+9RKrCPxNIOV9jmVjd1Zl RiqjLEDoKmksrqK3WaSCRImAYMRgEHoa07DR9aW8jgOlXzRrMvmxfZ25zjg8dxW54p0bXbe3lvWK zaXEhi85QAq/vCuzH94HA/Cm6kE0m9w5X2OLRkXduXdlSB7H1pla2l+HNU1m0muNPtXnWKRY32fw 7s8n2rRHgbxAkBu7exF1blVMcsZBWQMudy564pSq046OSCzZz8Sw/ZJ2kb958ojA6k55/DH9KhUA 5yccccdavro2rI0jf2XdnyT+8zbthTgH5uOOCDz61oXvhbXPKvL+S0BjgOZyjD93wGwR1HBHFVzx XUOVowpEVCoDhiVBOOxPamYOM44ooqhBjFOSOSTd5aM20Fm2jOAOpPtW74j0K60iKznv3UXV4u8R oOAgAAP41BZW2r6bpzavDan7FMphMrAFWBOCPXrUqcWrphYx6KmWcLZyQbRud1bdjoADkfqPyqGq AVmLHJPOMV3HgrxDD4f8MeIGlZxJcBIoADxvKuM49gcn6CuGp29tmzJ2k5x71nVpRqx5Jbf5ajjJ xd0er2vjrS1t9JtIbc3J02wkDDeULyeUEwpI6Y3dR3zVJPiVpwiubGHRZRbzRSxh5bncxBUgcBRy enXvXm0Y3MQH2/KTn8OlMHB461zf2fh27tfi+9zeOKqxg4J6MUcngc16TP8AEfT4Ps9uujSzC3ij iL/a9nKKBwNp9Ouea81pVXcwUYGTjmtq+Gp10lUV7f10Io16lF81N2Z6JeeP4PM8UQJC5h1hVMRI +4TGAS36dKzfGPi+z13RNJ0zT4JYYLIYcSY+YhVVSMdsA1xzhlcqxyVOPyptTHCUoyUktV/lb8iO eWp3Xw98S6X4fi1GHUS5+27Y1AX5VwrjLe3zYxXDl3YbSxI7AmrFmbX94LkuBtyu3uR/D+NV5GDy MyqFUkkKO3tWsaUYzlNbytf5A5NpJ9Df8F69beHPESahdQvLEIpE2p1+ZccfqPxqhr2ox6t4gvtR ijMaXMzShCMEZOe1ZtFCpRVR1OtrC5nax6/qvxFsrTX1V7WV7WKGSGaPHzPJuQ5Bz93j+ftXmdzr Ms/iaTWlQLK119pCk5AO7diqd1eXF7KJbmQyOFCgkAcCoKyo4SlR+BeRcqs5bs9Gl8d6Bc6oJjpF 6izSbpHNyoEeTyQuw5HsTWh4h8b6N5sEjWE14JFkkjlgm8lCrSO2CCpO4E4PTucdq8pqae6luIoY 3I2QrtRQMADOT+JNZf2fQ7fizr/tPFtqXPqtj0+78e6JNo+Y7C8lGIEkia4ChMK2dhKncRnB4GRj 0qXRfGehCwSdbW/iNvLJI8QmDjHlMAxIUdc8ccMBXkuTjGePSnLI6Kyq7KrDDAHAP1pf2dQtaz+9 +hH1/EODhzaN3+Z6XpPjDTrt7qOy0+6tNQktZlhJulZTIVwAPlHPJOT0x3qe48c6JD4tMs+mXgeO fLzNOuN699m3oW/2unPtXlisVYMpIYHII6ih3aRy7sWZjkknJJp/2dh+34sp5linJy59WrfIdNK0 00krnLOxY/UnNdb4a8T6Vo/h24sb61u7mWW6EqrDKEVQFxnJB55PbsK4+iuqpSjUjyS2OWlWnSmq kHZo9K0jxxo8mqIx0m5t5NjkSNdh1UhTyRsHHXvW3P4z0TTraxRIZPKigi3ESHEyeQ0eI/cZH3vX 1rxsEjocUhOa5Xl2HfT8WdFTH4io+acrv+megQ+OtEkmj+0aNewohyGhvFcj8Cg/nVzxH410XXPD GoWtu14t5L8w+1YwQZzIVGCemePYAV5nRTWAoKSkltruwq4/EVlapK53vw58Safo7S2d5HcSPcXM bxiPGFKq3J9evI+la6/EnRbGK1t49IvLhoVWOV7h1VxtjKDGM/Nhjn6mvLopXhmSaNtsiMGVvQjk Gkd2lkaRzuZiSSe5NFXAUKs3Oa1fmzGOIqRVos9Ah+IOkxzRuNBulAPJ+3htozzgeWO1aknjbS7/ AEvxUkaziS9EssRcYVR5aRjJ7k4yOn8q8pqRZpUhkhVyI5CC6jocdKFl9BO6X4vvc0q42vWt7SV7 DUG5wvrxQQVcrwSDjg5oeNo9u4Y3KGHuKbXacp2fxG1u31/U7G7tWJijtvIbrw6sSw/8eHNSHxRY H4Vjw8rN9t83ewIOMeZuwDXFNIzKqk/KvQYptYLDU1CMOkdUVzO7YUUUVuSFFFFABSrww+tFFACU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAHaiiigApU5dfrRRQAlFFFABRRRQAU8/6pf8AeP8A SiigBlFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/2Q== --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.12]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF024-8bd44b6a954c2cd; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:37:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BC63D38000171; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncy6x-00026O-KX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncy6x-00026F-9D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncy6u-0007HF-OX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXB00BAI99OIA@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:34:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:34:33 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RjB020gpkKrq+BuRoTLF8g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410c4b6a95442441 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_RjB020gpkKrq+BuRoTLF8g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA)" --Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,LF Capture RN3AGC Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,LF
Capture RN3AGC
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
RN3AGC 03-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.76]) by air-me09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME091-8bc04b714de1153; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:58:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C16B9380002B1; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:58:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeoiN-0003PE-PR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeoiN-0003P5-E2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml101.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeoiK-0000ZK-Tr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML101.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:57:05 +0100 Message-ID: <8735F9494D9B48E2BB84A45204F5D38A@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: <005101caa976$cf3ac210$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:56:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2010 11:57:05.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF835150:01CAA97E] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: LF 136 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604c4b714ddf5f7f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Veit,that was Ossi,OE5ODL, and tnx for the capture henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DL7ET=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: LF: LF 136 Last night I received a beacon on 136khz, but my sreen was to slow,= because I wrote PA3CPM. Who was the other beacon? transmitted from 0150 until 0715 UTC on 13= 6.32 khz vy 73 Veit ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/0= 8/10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Veit,that was Ossi,OE5ODL,
and tnx for the capture
 
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DL7ET
Sent: Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 11:58=20 AM
Subject: LF: LF 136

Last night I received a beacon on= 136khz, but my=20 sreen was to slow, because I wrote PA3CPM.
Who was the other beacon? transmitt= ed from 0150=20 until 0715 UTC on 136.32 khz
 
vy 73 Veit


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G - www.avg.com
Version: 8.= 5.435 / Virus=20 Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/08/10=20 19:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.137]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI041-eac24b75a75b30f; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:09:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFDD638000091; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0rS-0004l6-PG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0rS-0004kx-4I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0rP-0004Uv-D6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: by pxi27 with SMTP id 27so1668704pxi.4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:07:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=RuOzVONog6t6FTj1vGnubC1SllIYzp+5/pmrGamDfQg=; b=dbPVMrmlXjObAU9BJU0cDaWo1V9R5/ooNsP4ulwswsCZszq1Ij3Bde8Mdkcum0o21/ bRKhcuE52mfuML7ebUJA+lfVjLnaw2qz2ssuzfs4yTakpvZh3nrFKzIpPEk8oBh8wINc w/nW5yUj3LL8aPfmaMx5ltcEtcGMAM1TtxoqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=kAATbdRRv9KztCzsbPdM3Lpy96PyXBNXlDG8I1cVFAWs1VRMWddZrP8XXXJNkKuoYF OiglOsswGo3DkQrA/CKEmyApg1R0Z4TH24YFoig6bLaJeiLnLqNRILm2l7wrVPHL1De6 R4GClN1AWj3naaj4uN2Y733s7ERTSpdEGuVXE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.23.11 with SMTP id a11mr1182486rvj.220.1266001638632; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:07:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:18 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f385e4b41ebf269d Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m243.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d054b75a75854fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was mos= t enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QS= O) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > >> Hi Rog >> >> >> >> Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode >> >> >> >> If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on >> it and click decode >> >> >> >> When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter th= ese >> in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right han= d >> side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 >> >> >> >> If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4thme= ssages and 73s after each is how I see it. >> >> >> >> CQ is message 6 >> >> >> >> A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he >> will burn you at the stake!! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> With best regards >> >> >> >> >> >> *Jim* >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. James Cowburn >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: >> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn >> *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR >> >> >> >> Gary/Jim/Jim, >> >> Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedure= s >> used please? Must give this a try too. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz >> wrote: >> >> Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, >> >> Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: >> >> 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 >> 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 >> 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 >> 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 >> 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 >> 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 >> 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 >> >> And Jim: >> >> 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 >> 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR >> 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 >> >> Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! >> >> Cheers, Jim Moritz >> 73 de M0BMU >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" >> To: "LF Group (RSGB)" >> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM >> Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR >> >> Hi, >> >> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonigh= t >> on >> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. >> >> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be >> welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger, Jim,

I find it slightly different to Jim's= description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see= a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click&quo= t; the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct= places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply= to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide= to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very= very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

You can find it at :-


Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wr= ote:
Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roge= r G3XBM


On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgi= n.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0<= /p>

Run the WSJT7 prog= ramme and select wspr mode

=A0<= /p>

If you receive a= signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0<= /p>

When you have call= sign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on ge= n stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for eac= h message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0<= /p>

If the sending sta= tion is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0<= /p>

CQ is message 6

=A0<= /p>

A lot quicker than= QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

With best regards<= /span>

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowburn<= /span>

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@bt= openworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Grou= p,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= /a>
http://www.g3x= bm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

--000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-me08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME083-8bbe4b83a92f305; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:08:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 79D5C3800008D; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjrgN-0000CE-5z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjrgM-0000C4-Qv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:58 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjrgJ-0001Sh-UG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:58 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA0039EHH10B@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:07:50 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:07:45 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <719025E2F8CA4B78A4D980E73A84AF07@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Ud9gE00FnBoX4tAOZzQQpQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b83a92d11d9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Ud9gE00FnBoX4tAOZzQQpQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg)" --Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi LF, Capture XKO Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi LF,
Capture XKO
Henny pa3cpm
73s
 
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:39:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C7FB38000064; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCxO-0003aZ-4V for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCxN-0003aQ-ED for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:09 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCxM-0003Kg-2d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:09 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207193801.CMMP4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:38:01 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCxF-0007sD-CQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:01 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:37:59 -0000 Message-ID: <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoKk7xybIBRHwEQWutA5M/5PX99AAApywg X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=bPV2uaBrCK0c115Nj8QA:9 a=bfhroMDTb8PZ_XGGuqx58fesD_wA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ytwkUWg1-ORZ-iBWLQIA:9 a=lHFy1Sf3KwxkPOe2n-AA:7 a=ZJmeKzaigKTr_H82xKQvqsteSl8A:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41144b6f16f527ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mod= e tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal freq= uency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC083-86544b82697b139; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 089F33800010F; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNf-0000UH-62 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNe-0000U8-Lv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjWNc-0000WY-8B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356B551C002 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8324F3862 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:20:37 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8201175==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b826979683d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, what about "going underground". I do remind an article on communication via some=20 kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?)=20 trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to=20 put up antennas within the sight of the enemy). If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used. Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this=20 :=20 http://www.rexresearch.com/= rogers/1rogers.htm=20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote: >Hello Horst, > >That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to=20 >find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km)=20 >;-), that would be an interesting field to test. > >Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna=20 >configurations for that range and got the idea=20 >that one could use a forrest as an antenna=20 >tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of=20 >wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need=20 >to have that area beside your house. Nobody will=20 >see the wire and nobody will care about it. >Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop=20 >antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with=20 >excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m.=20 >The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above=20 >ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with=20 >my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on=20 >2200m without a problem but with bad ODX=20 >results, of course. But if one would try 2x=20 >10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... > >JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > >What is your RX antenna and have you already=20 >catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >73, Stefan > >PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > >---------- >Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >Hallo Stefan, > >there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S.=20 >1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free. > >I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA=20 >and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that. > >So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. > >There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. > >Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >Horst >___________________________________________________________ >NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:
Hello Horst,=
 
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
 
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
 
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
 
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
 
73, Stefan
 
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
--=====================_8201175==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE012-5ea34b6897a4393; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:22:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 84464380000AC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQBd-0007Zk-AD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQBc-0007Zb-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:28 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcQBa-0002Fs-2Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:28 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsAGAM8laEtOkCwr/2dsb2JhbACNFAOGM8U1hEUE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,393,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282023522" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.144.44.43]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 21:21:18 +0000 Message-ID: <007401caa44d$a36bf9c0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <006a01caa448$ffca2980$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:21:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: PA0HTT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b68979d5d43 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and another PA1JT=20 G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mal hamilton=20 To: rsgb=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: LF: PA0HTT New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not too strong in QSO mode mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
and another PA1JT
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
To: rsgb
Sent: Tuesday, February 02,= 2010 8:47=20 PM
Subject: LF: PA0HTT

New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not= too strong in=20 QSO mode
 
mal/g3kev
= ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC103-86564b85489e1d8; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ABD4D380000C1; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:41:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJKr-0005jI-34 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJKq-0005j9-Im for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:36 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJKo-0004xO-Lf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:36 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1OFdUZu003513 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B17@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B17@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XtrVOstxxtzYQky2OMjZDpYmwgAB/0bJ References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.24.153053 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB567.8EAA01F8" Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55453 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b85489c78b7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB567.8EAA01F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Alexander,=20 Let us see what will happen if you cancel out that 100nF Cp:=20 The overall C in the circuit is the C of the antenna, 1nF, so you need abo= ut 100* the L before. If we assume now, the resistance of L is 100 Ohm, th= e overall resistance in the circuit is abt 1100 Ohm. Applying the same pow= er than before (Pin=3D1,1W (ground+coil loss before)) will give a current= of 32mA =3Dsqrt(10) * I antenn before and thus the "radiated" signal is= 10 dB stronger than before, although the coil losses are 100* more, right= ?=20 73, Stefan/DK7FC=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Mi 24.02.2010 22:35 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems >=20 > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter= , > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3D3= .2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB062-a6ff4b8256db2df; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:05:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E5AC738000091; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjV90-0000GY-JN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjV90-0000GP-1I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjV8w-0008O9-9a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1503570bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:03:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2A8Ch3zSDYFB5YxfRz3Z6acGL/yL34oFificXN/RHo4=; b=FUSFsqAR3Yj3ohhj8wIIYlIWMdIuHVmHzJQPVCBR/iwsNNc1zPphgzRRi80m1ziwRM eusi7NEeQmSqHgeUzJwWaegrw+n2eDUCPj3fcPuAvdLqdP8B8VxdZ+/TWnufjFiKSdtj jj/p+MsTUArtBkvDf92vLF8CG3umRyyzBbFNo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZKuhrK4MAfGb8Y6oC9NSDpDuHK5CmRnnZMM5J/SGsTwarMF/kLaY8RGBn06Qj8oepW n09mDMvr9GQErK+T967LZl83fQ08KGgTE5AnDUg0gxpZ5ZuN8BUE789M2nytTOmgI/+c zGP2Ly/knhMARtqtvZFXmYIhBCqzAxVlxDvbM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.132 with SMTP id k4mr537549bka.174.1266833031374; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:03:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:03:51 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d243.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b8256d96f03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably th= e best "antenna". There are references to how these work in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the internet= I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Hello Horst, > > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs= in > the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. > > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that > range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. > There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You > do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wir= e > and nobody will care about it. > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on > my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has > 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m= to > 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a > problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*= 100m > on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... > > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF > stations in that range? Are there some? > > 73, Stefan > > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > > > > Hallo Stefan, > > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range > <9kHz is free. > > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a > letter which confirmed that. > > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need > one. > > There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. > > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > > Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are prob= ably the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these wo= rk in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, avail= able on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0.
=A0
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern= signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz= (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of= kms.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM


=A0
2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer &l= t;schaefer@hst.tu-darmstad= t.de>
Hello Horst,

That sound= s really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near= field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower.= There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
<= br>What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One= can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.201= 0 09:29
An: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.= 79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in= Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.
I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do no= t need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like ban= dwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
____________________________= _______________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/=






--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot= .com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk=
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255550ced329a904802d8c37-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE043-5eb04b88005530f; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:09:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9712238000429; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:09:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3fU-00070T-4g for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:08:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3fT-00070K-F0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:59 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl3fQ-0007JJ-Rf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:59 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so269294bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:07:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2LJH/oXK+lJQz7LCFlBNlRlchH7rtLGS5qjU746ybYY=; b=ewHixG/Z+qS/JpFL3IfK8s6TXR3yO2kSiMFhvQvvn2YjFSs0RmLX8FxIlGWiiSTF0I 3fAAK8tAp3vwzMmtw3Y8Zc8fm03C5kKw6wFHtvaevOXnZqrQgeFcOcIOHvRt6Syo1NaG TDEJvuglccd77frixTv1eY0OJCWZO66riE5JM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=g3CieNmSpS3XtoWxdk/kAlGTUrzJYVi2dAW81UprOPXIawwgd6cv12rVMT1rnItkSX sigxr/890sUOa4D+ym9Y6KEp6Aa8iaHVlvCmIr80/gURX/R2qNEidMipMLuW4e+CPXJt u3W8RitF5QbZKrL4oQX6bgyWZ20RURZzf7k/A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.38.77 with SMTP id a13mr507654bke.26.1267204069741; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:07:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:49 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a3166f5680048083f040 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b88005341ad X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a3166f5680048083f040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Two questions...* (1) *Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried deep in impulsive noise like sferics?* It seems that most of the natural noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Perhaps there are certain modulation types that are well suited to get through for this sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but would value the views of people like Andy. (2) *Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonable that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiated, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference?* We all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field signals can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (local) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pipe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs. 73s Roger G3XBM On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > > > Dear LF, > > > > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise background > at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regular > LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on > LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend only > little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and > placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived at a > background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB > kTo). > > Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for > industrial noise. > > > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to > > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. > > Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical > study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics > noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory > assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional > filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one > should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is > very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my > web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is > very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 > kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. > But i don't test it. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a3166f5680048083f040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two questions...

(1) Does anyone know how modes like WSPR= behave with signals buried deep in impulsive noise like sferics? It= seems that most of the natural noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-m= ade noise is another matter. Perhaps there are certain modulation types th= at are well suited to get through for this sort of impulsive noise? I am= no expert so have no idea but would value the views of people like Andy.<= br>
(2) Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonab= le that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiat= ed, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference? We= all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field sign= als can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (loca= l) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be= interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pi= pe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some= leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 26 February 20= 10 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
> Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
>
> Dear LF,
>
> sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise backgr= ound at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regula= r LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated= on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend on= ly little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging= and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived= at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to= 142 dB kTo).

Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obviou= s for
industrial noise.

> Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential= to
> maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception.

Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theore= tical
study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics
noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional
filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one<= br> should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my web page www.qsl.ne= t/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is
very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on= 9
kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me.=
But i don't test it.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB







--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555a3166f5680048083f040-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.213]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB032-a21d4b8ac2632ae; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BC22C380000A6; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlohP-0000M8-FZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlohO-0000Lz-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlohM-0001JM-E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:06 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1252512bwz.4 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:20:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ugbVIlsMkI5sjm76ZgnI2t5z9TDqkjKEM1WpX1BL49w=; b=T2Ucl2jGvBx9Jve8AGapRGi9fpYeqFCAHuJ8k9oQvVo39CWrd7ZCV3lGwCP4fRty/J tTJFcYInWJsYsawbMgGIsI52j2TBdi35j62sZt2R19wqVxKsyx5ziiUJDEGfGJSkNk3E GewmcdD1fnpapICXUGRiBraCSPTS40fmZkATU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=DXalHYfmv39x94mTBFhBNFYGSNZHXEwBK0QfLDH6j9mZe5HODGy5oPyZR3gsgLUFuj v3sNnC9JYqzVtP2q0BiBiS3CJPn4F7C50rBCA42vIUJNy2fQLckJcOMeRzY3MFrDrnnb 2IN/UQNrUixuqOk/iyVDEg202PWtz/vy4luKI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.48.202 with SMTP id s10mr2331735bkf.34.1267384853647; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:20:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:20:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002281120h9184aeeg71f65a50b796f219@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d226.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d54b8ac2612522 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mal, If people wish to experiment and find out for themselves how well, or indeed how badly, an amateur VLF system works then what is wrong with that? Even you must agree that it is by experimenting that we learn. The discussion on the <9kHz subject has opened our eyes to the real possibility that at least some well equipped stations really could work over 100kms. You are probably one of the best equipped LF stations in the UK, so why don't YOU have a go below 9kHz and share your experiences with us all? I am sure many in the UK would appreciate this. What is more you would almost certainly add a few more firsts to your impressive list. 73s Roger G3XBM On 28 February 2010 18:42, mal hamilton wrote: > Roger > Most of those talking/dreaming about 9 kcs cannot get a signal out beyond > their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it would be FOOLISH for those persons > to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON. > Have you noticed the BIG players on LF/MF are not contermplating joining > the Dreamers. > G3KEV > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Roger Lapthorn > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Marcus et al, > > Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a go > myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will > be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a few kms > will be fun. > > Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructive > comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane comments > and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down to attention > seeking. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrote: > >> Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views, we >> definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement. >> >> And, best of all, it's fun. >> >> Best 73, >> Markus, DF6NM >> >> >> *From:* tim hague >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday >> >> Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking >> forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this >> from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur >> community. >> >> Tim M0AFJ >> mal hamilton wrote: >> > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an >> > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be >> > broken without the KITE, >> > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. >> > >> > G3KEV >> > ..... >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

If people wish to experiment and find out for themselves how= well, or indeed how badly, an amateur VLF system works then what is wrong= with that? Even you must agree that it is by experimenting that we learn.=

The discussion on the <9kHz subject has opened our eyes to the real= possibility that at least some well equipped stations really could work= over 100kms. You are probably one of the best equipped LF stations in the= UK, so why don't YOU have a go below 9kHz and share your experiences= with us all? I am sure many in the UK would appreciate this. What is more= you would almost certainly add a few more firsts to your impressive list.=

73s
Roger G3XBM



On 28 Feb= ruary 2010 18:42, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:
Roger
Most of those talking/dreaming about= 9 kcs cannot=20 get a signal out beyond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so=A0it would be= =20 FOOLISH for those persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.
Have you noticed the BIG players on= LF/MF are not=20 contermplating joining the Dreamers.
G3KEV
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX expe= riments=20 this sunday

Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimenting= below=20 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I= don't=20 expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS= or WSPR=20 beacon. Even a few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a complete= fool=20 of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Mos= t here=20 just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologi= sts=20 would put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM=20



On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>=20 wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing hi= s views, we definitely see=20 his=A0interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
=A0
And, best of all,=A0it's fun.=
=A0
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
=A0

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like th= is=20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater ama= teur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill=20 top and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS= face=20 his direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
&g= t; Do=20 not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>=A0=20
> G3KEV
>=A0 .....

=

--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM=20 =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL=20 G11088



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA022-b4f44b74727325a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 00DDB380001EB; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgID-0001gL-Tn for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgID-0001gC-GL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from mout5.freenet.de ([195.4.92.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfgIB-00058e-W8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.27] (helo=17.mx.freenet.de) by mout5.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1NfgIA-000463-TV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:42 +0100 Received: from p57af2fbb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.175.47.187]:1202 helo=2a2d7ed321c6425) by 17.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NfgIA-0002Fw-An for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:42 +0100 From: "Beckmann, Gerhard" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:41 +0100 Message-ID: <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcqrWvY7fEZTacuNTHm6G5o+jFZeOAAAyguA X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7472702161 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gary, please find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR 2056 -22 0.0 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 2100 -23 0.9 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0 2104 -23 1.1 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 vy 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI ==== _____ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2010 21:41 An: LF Group (RSGB) Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Gary,

 

ple= ase find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR

 

2056 -22 = 0.0   0.503600  0 07/G4WGT 0<= /p>

2100 -23 = 0.9   0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0

2104 -23 = 1.1   0.503600  0 07/G4WGT 0<= /p>

 

vy 73 de Gerhar= d  //  DK6NI

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Donnerstag,= 11. Februar 2010 21:41
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kH= z WSPR

 

Hi,

 

If there is someone interested out there I am= running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.=

 

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports= & replies/calls will be welcome.

 

73, Gary - G4WGT.

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC043-a9314b75d41dcd; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:20:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B341D3800054D; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng3qI-0005ZF-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng3qH-0005Z6-Sh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:29 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng3qE-0005ZB-N6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:29 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212221820.IFVF4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:20 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng3q2-0004RO-St for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:17 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:14 -0000 Message-ID: <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsGwAl4sO3OstgTjmmBJOm4elIAAAFfv6A In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=ZxbN8ogpbp7sA2GTVe8A:9 a=9Vl3Ww7Fl9mXB4FpqaUA:7 a=2aOONDRravpDNxyESDf05fs4WM8A:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=29tjHgOh2kJkrCvN:21 a=pySfBNegEntfSvDy:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=bh8EJB0D1xs0bMDI7iMA:9 a=oXrVuhQWOiYwbE_vaY4A:7 a=--amzK8ww3JvKa1UzVI_c6w8THEA:4 a=aIpYgvReAufkhJZb:21 a=vT917SRXCEcREfBk:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b75d41b695b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary I got multiple decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail. I saw you'd gone QRT so I'm back on 502.4 We will have to try again another evening With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

I got multiple= decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail.   I saw you= 217;d gone QRT so I’m back on 502.4

 

We will have to= try again another evening

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 =

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:38
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Jim,

 

We are all "Bozo's" at some point= in time :-))

 

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonig= ht ?

 

73, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <= james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be!!

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07


To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR= 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Ga= ry - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the ri= ght hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-md04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD044-8b834b75e7d3e5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:44:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5485B380003C4; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng5A2-0005j9-AR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng5A1-0005j0-9I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:57 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f191.google.com ([209.85.216.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng59x-0005vF-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:57 +0000 Received: by pxi29 with SMTP id 29so1808108pxi.1 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:42:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=sDAZ5w4iIgBDzE7hod2xnOO631jvG8w9m5D2djILE/8=; b=surkKDPud/8mdbLi65/xVOKcD9mqxHko3s8hwLIxHm6dhQifez9CfDHA6iDJG4aYJm 4TRMLJySJtNEhKiGXmgF3i/ki4fq2/5Wref6AKqSQquM5VUAi5Dia7PPXMhfBLikddL+ CvHZ6xdIYRwZurNX2oI8JmLw4pbEnalPfEx7U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=p1Cdm0w4plnInin7acCIOhXr4TWumdqWrYyp8YGq4a8mK+2WD8vSENbRit3VeQMSpB n1IHNid44ow1tj1u8f6K0O24vJaVjX66pJevv6q/DhnkdMWqV1Y9fQBwvfxab6A75Zbk vSTCbZTsiiV6fd5GcJH1wJ7WyhufZIv5il2W8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.2.7 with SMTP id e7mr1432629rvi.16.1266018160683; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:42:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:40 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2b7dc019e3dcdfc3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121542t470b34f2u84ce1792e6870730@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d276.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b75e7d0320d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim, I saw your signal trace good enough for a decode but nothing, I think you are late due to PC clock error. Yes, we will try again, I am sure we can make the QSO. Cheers es Good Night, Just off to bed. Gary. On 12 February 2010 22:18, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > I got multiple decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replie= d > but to no avail. I saw you=92d gone QRT so I=92m back on 502.4 > > > > We will have to try again another evening > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > E james.cowburn@virgin.net > > ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:38 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Jim, > > > > We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) > > > > Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > A bozo I will be!! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:07 > > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Roger, Jim, > > > > I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while= in > monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to > do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sig= n in > the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is wh= ich > Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. > > > > I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was= most > enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way= (QSO) > mode. > > > > You can find it at :- > > > > http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm > > > > Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: > > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > --000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

I saw your signal trace good enough for a decod= e but nothing, I think you are late due to PC clock error.

<= /div>
Yes, we will try again, I am sure we can make the QSO.

Cheers es Good Night,

Just off to= bed.

Gary.

On= 12 February 2010 22:18, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wro= te:

Hi Gary

=A0

I got multiple= decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail. =A0=A0I saw you=92d gone QRT= so I=92m back on 502.4

=A0

We will have to= try again another evening

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

E james.cowburn@virgin.n= et=

=A0=

=A0

Jim,

=A0

We are all "Bozo's" at some point in= time :-))

=A0

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ?<= /span>

=A0

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@vir= gin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be= !!

=A0

=A0

=A0

Roger, Jim,

=A0

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in th= e correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.=

=A0

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

=A0

You can find it at :-

=A0

=A0

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

=A0

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT7 pr= ogramme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you have ca= llsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right= hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0

If the sending= station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is message 6<= /span>

=A0

A lot quicker th= an QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.82]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD011-8b744b756ff0272; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:12:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C4BD38000367; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:12:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxAd-0004GX-V2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxAd-0004GO-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfxAa-0002pp-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so530935bwz.31 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=axZqepaeNe2BdziD2PTzXXUWBe+r12fXVyiqoj1SMqg=; b=WnGDrbeENAhkboUsrWooBQHWdnrOVwwQnjXW5+1yn0Zk//o2IUE2vQsawd0juyOl5C WYxDnbGJZFdf59rjpC7Kg4BP25r/NmlGGBce+fYi2Qfva2azLG6EMgNdRwyapt/R7yg2 dYihy9mYe53fKQyikl4AD7gCMx7c8GxaqfKUU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vQuzEL1f+oCMQ7B82otJz1MOkrpO0ga5VmmzkD0/SCH5S/dHcfqHSruEudMNWmJK/2 lHN+Gh0jPG/xNoTO/wOaJCvPGR1eAk8W3zJJISh9FTQtxiG2RYer61d8U7sdBUu4Lh7/ ihn+Kxam2O9PUIGqINkrW6r7Fe863lHMR1RoQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.26.198 with SMTP id f6mr949583bkc.13.1265987453774; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002120710y2dbc864dle204b2d733339c03@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m267.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60524b756fe96750 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Not quite Jim. I'd like a QSO next week please when my grandson goes home and I get my shack back! 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:18, James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF group, > > Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now, > as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in > this mode ;-) > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not quite Jim. I'd like a QSO next week please when my grandson goes= home and I get my shack back!

73s Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 23:18, James Moritz &l= t;james.moritz@btopenworld= .com> wrote:
Dear LF group,<= br>
Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now,= as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in= this mode ;-)

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU





--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME031-8ba84b899bb544; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:24:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0646D38000086; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlV4i-00045z-Cq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlV4h-00045q-Qq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:51 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlV4e-0007Ad-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:51 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1RMNj4Y027759 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:45 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:46 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:46 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B24@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B24@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Thread-Index: Acq3u4rUHkkdJblZQz+Vs0zD9g2xmQAOqQfQ References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4B892F0B.9040604@freenet.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.220928 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9" Subject: AW: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55594 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b899bb350e8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wolf and tnx for informing others, =20 After a talk with Markus/DF6NM and further thoughts abt the actual configu= ration it may be difficult to get a success tomorrow:=20 =20 The coil has a Q of just 38 (that i have measured/calculated). So it has= an "internal" R of abt 150 Ohm @ 8,9kHz. With that coil it will not be po= ssible to get 20kV (abt 650mA into the wire) on the wire unless my PA won'= t give 2kW and it won't. So the ERP will be lower. Also, it is not sure if Bernd/DF8ZR (closest distance RX stn as it seems)= can arrange his equipment until tmw. Anyway, i will get up tomorrow early in the morning and try to built that= PA. Additionally i try to build quickly an antenna current meter with a= high =B5 ferrit core (current transformer). So, the current and ERP and= earth losses could be calculated. Maybe a confirmation of that what we ha= ve discussed in the last days (changes of earth resistance from 137 to 9= kHz...).=20 First i will just do some resonating tests. Bringing the wire to resonance= , matching it to the PA. Trying to get the power coupled into the HV coil. It will be a first step to built up that station, although it might be pos= sible that it won't come up completely, there will be some results that sh= ows what to do next and to improve.=20 I have built such an earth loss measuring bridge before some years (if i= remember correctly it is from EI0CF/G3YNK) and will try to find the R and= C for 9kHz with this antenna, although the ferrite cores might be not opt= imal at those low frequencies. =20 Markus/DF6NM will be on the phone and i will inform him when i am ready to= transmit. He gave me the hint that it is an idea not to transmit exactly= at 8,9 but thater at 8,97kHz, due to the harmonics of 50Hz and 16 2/3 Hz= (german railway f), although these may be not to strong any more. He will= spot the QRG and if i am transmitting here. Now i plan it on 8,9700kHz.= =20 =20 Maybe there will be no reception from anyone on my first test since there= seems to be no one QRV in a radius of 10...20km but if i know the earth= losses and the actual voltage at the wire at a given power (measured, not= theoretically calculated) i will be happy. But maybe it will be much bett= er than just thought... =20 Until next week, i try to get a proper coil in the region of 0,5H, so that= no parallel C will be needed... =20 Ok, so, cu there... =20 73 es gn es gl, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Wolfgang B=FCscher Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 15:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Hi Stefan, Thanks for the proposals, and the boost of activity. I have passed on a few notes to the yahoo VLF group, so if you have more details about the kite antenna experiments (or even a schedule) please let us know. RX equipment (SDR-IQ and Perseus, plus various active antennas) already geared up here; and even the 'quiet RX location' (DF0WD / DK4U) is accessable by car again, since the snow disappeared. It may be a bit optimistic to expect reception here in JO42FD, but who knows... Cheers, Wolf . Stefan Sch=E4fer schrieb: > Dear group, >=20 > It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IFJlOiA5 a0h6IG5vaXNlIGxldmVsAL0JAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABsAFwAXAC4ABgBgAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAb ABcAFwAuAAYAYAEBCYABACEAAAA5OUQ2QkIyQjgzMTJDOTQ2ODEwNTlCNjIwQkQ5MzQ0QwAWBwED kAYAGBgAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDZ2TqH+7fKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEA AAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNzIyMjM0NlotMTIxNgAA AB4ASQABAAAAIQAAAFJlOiBBVzogTEY6IFJlOiA5a0h6IG5vaXNlIGxldmVsAAAAAEAATgCAd+7p urfKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwAB AAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tz aGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAA 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from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-ma07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA071-b52c4b6feb8a319; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:46:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 49DA4380001C4; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeR7P-0008MW-JM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeR7P-0008MN-98 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeR7M-0000DQ-TJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B934C816F for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:45:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676BB4C817B for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:45:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6FEB3D.1010509@online.fr> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:45:17 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> In-Reply-To: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: LF T/A [137kHz] VO1NA WD2XKO last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b6feb891479 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Henny , Joe , Good copy of VO1NA and WD2XKO last night ( see on my grabber ) 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj henny van elst a =E9crit : > Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the fir= st signs. > henny cpm > 73s > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.202]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA101-85ec4b6f11fe1eb; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:18:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15FBC3800008C; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:18:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCdS-0003Qy-CE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCdS-0003Qo-0p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:34 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCdO-0002vL-RN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:33 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2422099pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:17:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=eCYInQvGjWsxoBaJ38oS8nR8ni26879dsRc929wZb1s=; b=bK0rjFrClj6m2HzdR2qpLtZ84dFjjHQ2SXseY6f3gXiMsBI5jZk6/GvoUc07Cvd6eI iWEiiaTLuloXSpHWB5dsfk1FcJX0TAFfRpd/+VfcldQuERgAiv5zBJFc8FdumpPsCI8S da5idJ3MefIKlR0Zr9DON8CDrw1hFfw+X8o+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=MQsDt/wIxyMvYxzA/fPuOEsS0Nu52AgdklBSdRcPJ90hwOLwVCnoIH8q8rQgaqW8Fs rDdudjYJpBaqzIz407eT2kLYHTtRXlXQX6TrNLk1lkyWDBM3snsS2dUHdsRrIR9ZMt53 i32xcTimVaftxOFVXUfUFWDTHnH5nTRhU+62M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.247.15 with SMTP id u15mr3789852rvh.166.1265570242002; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:17:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:17:21 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bfea377c43c128b3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ca4b6f11fc5da7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi LF,

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode= tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=
Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT= 4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

Good Luck with your= project es 73,

Gary - G4WGT.

2010/2= /25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion!

Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint wha= t is happening here in the last days ;-))
I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on 8,9= kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my "electr= onic-lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and resona= ting that coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and heating pr= oblems). Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be right, i will= try a transmission on sunday morning but that is still uncertain and i wo= uld tell it to the group before.
I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX the= re. Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on= low frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away...

73, Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08
An: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals?


Hi Stefan, LF,

There is a VLF Group at the following :-

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/

<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/> The members di= scuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natu= ral radio"

Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informa= tive group.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>


=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received= in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where th= ese transmitters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is= receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SN= R he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have= nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/mo= tivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region.= But i will rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-)

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Stefan/DK7FC




--000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.75]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI063-eacc4b804fe0a0; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:10:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 19871380000A3; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiwZR-0003AW-M5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiwZR-0003AN-6V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from rekin23.go2.pl ([193.17.41.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiwZP-0001Ve-A6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:09:01 +0000 Received: from rekin23.go2.pl (rekin23 [127.0.0.1]) by rekin23.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF471287F6 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by rekin23.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from 58-178-124-188.rev.pro-internet.pl [188.124.178.58] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id KIzQWb; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01cab270$e8bc3450$3ab27cbc@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: References: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl <009301cab1c4$d5c1ba70$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:08:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 61 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604b4b804fdf1c56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Veit Thank you for nice QSO and screenshot! QSL card 100% via the bureau. 73! Marcin > Thanks for 599 dear Marcin. > > This was my first X band QSO with longwave, I did. Many thanks. > The sifgnal was QSBing between very good and nothing! > > Please QSL via bureau. My QSL is sure. > > 73 Veit DL7ET > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" > Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:02 AM > Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH > > > Hello Veit > I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. > 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > > > > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? > > > > Veit DL7ET > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME021-8ba44b77563b8; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:47:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0BE8438000115; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:47:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgTYY-0007Rq-MX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgTYY-0007Rh-56 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: from smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgTYW-0003nu-5Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 74304 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=iumyrxCnjj/pvzQdvKFZlpPjv1r8fJRVFb2Ert4M5PckB+a3QBu6t9rpXuRSaNY/DjcNWcnCyQv9tVEAardrhIXfqfnc9qgkFj35FEAOlR1PD/fAyiHOOIyU84JzRCkIhjlaGtmLjPDXqnjctVp1JXjzV17HlHUW8kBpSopPGe8= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2010 01:45:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 7ZqB8M8VM1mmESD3r0o1gAOkT9DznIzGdNUtMIbxf.cvi4tSG4LRd6NCIm8A5pUq72iCAiyPZCPx9rYS2lmUaOYe8l9x8Z.eDb_r7MyzxW2Vggwdd.L4Mr1V_HI_JFQGhnbP0vv6Z5ZAeqNFOOr4sijUvJcEpNw4n_3ww6y4tNSe5W5yghj5gGpvfhTpi3QNHL8dx9wbMXbTCUfeFwqy6CllrCLJda.N0l2sMepe9WKGSgIZxYrbrocXHcItboAT X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:45:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: 500kHz WSPR QSO WE2XGR/2 <-> M0BMU Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7756390722 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decoded messages went like this: 000400 5 -28 0.1 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 001600 6 -26 0.0 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 003002 4 -26 -0.1 51 0 M0BMU <...> S1 004400 4 -29 0.0 70 0 WE2XGR R S1 005002 5 -26 -0.1 51 0 WE2XGR RRR 010000 9 -24 -0.2 70 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 010602 7 -26 0.1 51 0 73 DE WE2XGR FN31 Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO? M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE071-5eba4b8407cf331; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:52:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E1ECD380000E0; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxyv-0002Si-Ex for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxyv-0002SZ-4M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxyt-0005O6-9V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:51:33 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1NGpQN8024749 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:51:28 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00289 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:56:23 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:56:22 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:51:29 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b8407cb7afe X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > Ok Alan, but what is the difference between a ground stake and the alu foil, > when talking about the resistive losses? Ground resistance is not worth in such a conditions. Coil (or high voltage transformer) resistance is much grater anyway. Thus use the single short ground stake and don't worry about it. It is much worther antenna enviroment (trees, houses e.t.c.). Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b86b6a91ee; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:43:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C3553800005D; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:43:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkhie-0006Ph-IK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkhid-0006PY-L3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:47 +0000 Received: from web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.124]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkhid-0007IX-Bi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:41:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 11036 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 17:41:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267119700; bh=grrxCmepx185+H5q/DKLa6b9bakhPRwHHz/AvCsgjhU=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3ogkj4AkK5KGjpmByUULyoNULThoQhmfsTZm37wCy/HGmQlKQlrX9prmg+Rx90XZdCxWkJZdkUdf5A0wuNU12kKP+rWH2OgseG/IrpxbTcdsW0poMN1ldxCb+gHnoEjv6h3bFvRd7gYxewwNplf09n8bk8vknZYPER4p6PFbNbw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mVhsp1HmpI4EIeJCNwFLy/ZbJcEvVHmcUXXqyfmeh/iLFX1iFXheWouha7Fkp1sq0gfeX2/3uOp5zSM5ECHbGKoRJ1pCl1/nhXJv/PpcS51MPuaK51Df3gAofFK/2THuRjO7LeVN1IqnxdFqK2Q572ZiOb2xA9SDO1NeOCvqwgc=; Message-ID: <970432.10413.qm@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: X1Dw4KwVM1lGn66FxOlrDZWEc4B55tN3IMx_Rxd1qyggQC7.qHj.YECIn.q0Htma2teMaVunAxoTRpsoHLBQn2ZKjz8Nz7JkaLZGqBub374quKkhfji9UBaG7CXbKhEtbfCXBhR6lPHZwVx4q5FJWL7l07mnHIjDdBYVWx7ZLpRPaX5xzRvfHyB4qWGst3L7WE9qZqowZPuNVprtgPHNk_AKREQOnbUVtz9qtrwbywBed0Y6TsK5Am.P5eOdOOCteGyFaaVsDy6NccnG1XWOzEX4 Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:41:40 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:41:40 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_40_50, HTML_COMMENT_8BITS,HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_TABLE,WEIRD_QUOTING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55503 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d234.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b86b6a7041d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Roger =C2=A0 What happens with hard of hearing audio induction loops, they are every wh= ere nowadays? =C2=A0 Does this mean if we put a an OFW305 they will issue us with an NOV? =C2=A0 I am typing mine now! =C2=A0 Thanks to G4JNT previously=C2=A0and Good Work Roger!! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Roger Lapthorn wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 17:19 People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received= today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.=20 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rod Wilkinson Date: 25 February 2010 15:20 Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: Roger Lapthorn Hello Roger, Well, quicker than I thought we=E2=80=99d be I have some info for you rega= rding the possibility of operating on 9kHz. Apparently Ofcoms=E2=80=99 Spectrum Management Team were approached back= in 2006 by Colin Thomas G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We= understood at that time there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from= Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothing came of it on that occasion. That has though allowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Sp= ectrum Team see no reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not ta= ke place on 9kHz. They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no= allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence woul= d be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy= under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation= for an existing licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as fo= r operating on 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non int= erference basis to other active facilities and systems using that part of= the spectrum. We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who wer= e approached during the original enquires to confirm that they remain cont= ent with the agreed arrangements.=C2=A0 All this, will of course, need to= be done prior to the NoV being granted. So it does seem a possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed pl= ease complete an application from for a Special Research Permit available= at: www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw= 306.pdf Please provide as much detail as possible and send it to me and I will lia= ise with appropriate colleagues. I hope that helps. Vy 73 Rod Rod Wilkinson OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Ofcom Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Have you changed your address recently?=20 Update your details on the Ofcom Amateur and Ships Licensing Service=20 =C2=A0 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]=20 Sent: 23 February 2010 10:33 AM To: Rod Wilkinson Subject: Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? =C2=A0 Many thanks Rod.=20 I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson wrot= e: Hello Roger, =C2=A0 Many thanks for your very interesting mail. =C2=A0 To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating below 9kHz= I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=E2=80=99 spectrum management team= and possibly the lawyers too.=20 =C2=A0 So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to you as soo= n as possible. =C2=A0But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather= than days. =C2=A0 Vy 73=20 =C2=A0 Rod PS =C2=A0sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz! =C2=A0 Rod Wilkinson OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Ofcom Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk =C2=A0 Have you changed your address recently?=20 Update your details on the Ofcom Amateur and Ships Licensing Service=20 =C2=A0 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]=20 Sent: 22 February 2010 10:43 PM To: Rod Wilkinson Subject: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? =C2=A0 Dear Rod, On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last few= days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago (aro= und 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and G9BI= B) for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications= magazine in 1975. It's a fascinating part of the spectrum to explore. In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amate= urs operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am= aware, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring,= VLF emissions research (whistler reception, etc), slow data rate signalli= ng to submerged submarines (although I believe this has now been replaced= by other methods) and some slow data rate FSK modulation of the mains pow= er grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interf= erence threat to any of these. At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a= traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiatio= n immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and pur= poses, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so ca= lled "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense= . Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range very lim= ited. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experi= menting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at the= se basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS60= or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulat= ion modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at= best rather than hundreds of kilometres). So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at all?= If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-ca= se basis as at 500kHz?=C2=A0=20 Kind regards Roger Lapthorn=C2=A0 G3XBM=C2=A0 (500kHz NoV holder) --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email=20 ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email=20 ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =C2=A0 =C2=A0GQRP 1678 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ISWL G11088 =20 --0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413" --0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done Roger
 
What happens with hard of hearing audio induction loops, they are eve= ry where nowadays?
 
Does this mean if we put a an OFW305 they will issue us with an NOV?<= /DIV>
 
I am typing mine now!
 
Thanks to G4JNT previously and Good Work Roger!!

73 es GL= petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthor= n@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.c= om>
Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday, 25 Februa= ry, 2010, 17:19

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wil= kinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:= Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk>
Date: 25 February 201= 0 15:20
Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?
To: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>= ;


Hello Roger,

Well, quicker than I= thought we=E2=80=99d be I have some info for you regarding the possibilit= y of operating on 9kHz.

Apparently Ofcoms=E2= =80=99 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006 by Colin Thom= as G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time= there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. Howe= ver nothing came of it on that occasion.

That has though allow= ed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no re= ason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz. The= y state that ITU Radio Regs indicat= e that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the= UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for= wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existin= g licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on= 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basi= s to other active facilities and systems using that part of the spectrum.= We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached= during the original enquires to confirm that they remain content with the= agreed arrangements.  All this, will of course, need to be done prior to th= e NoV being granted.

So it does seem a pos= sibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an appl= ication from for a Special Research Permit available at:

www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licen= sing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw306.pdf

Please provide as muc= h detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropriate= colleagues.

I hope that helps.

Vy 73

Rod

Rod= WilkinsonOLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

O= fcom

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org= .uk

 <= /SPAN>

Have you changed = your address recently?

Update your details on the Ofcom= Amat= eur and Ships Li= censing Service

 =

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">

 =

From:= Roger Lapthorn [m= ailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 February= 2010 10:33 AM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Re: Special= Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

 

Many thanks Rod.
I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OF= COM regarding operation below 9kHz.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk> wrote:

Rod= Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

O= fcom

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org= .uk

 <= /SPAN>

Have you changed = your address recently?

Update your details on the Ofcom= Amat= eur and Ships Li= censing Service

 =

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">

 =

From:= Roger Lapthorn [m= ailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 February= 2010 10:43 PM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Special Perm= its for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

 

Dear Rod,

On the RSGB's LF reflector, there ha= s been some discussion in the last few days about experimentation at frequ= encies below 9kHz. Many years ago (around 1970) I held a couple of Test an= d Development licences (G9BGU and G9BIB) for such experiments and I wrote= up the results in Radio Communications magazine in 1975. It's a fascinati= ng part of the spectrum to explore.

In some countries the approval= authorities have simply said that below 9kHz is not allocated by the ITU= and therefore they have no issues with amateurs operating experimentally= in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am aware, the only use for freq= uencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whist= ler reception, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (al= though I believe this has now been replaced by other methods) and some slo= w data rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagin= e amateur operation being a credible interference threat to any of these.

At= such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a tr= aditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiation= immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and purp= oses, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so cal= led "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense.= Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range very limi= ted. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experim= enting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at thes= e basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS60= or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulat= ion modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at= best rather than hundreds of kilometres).

So, I wonder what OFCOM'= s view would be. Would a permit be needed at all? If yes, would OFCOM issue Spec= ial Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-case basis as at 500kHz? 
Kind regards

Roger Lapthorn  G3XBM  (500kHz NoV hol= der)

--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP= 1678      ISWL G11088


****= **************************************************************************= ************************************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org= .uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intend= ed for the use of the addressee only.

If you have received this ema= il in error please notify the originator of the message and delete it from= your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you= open any attachments at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this= message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views= or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise.
***********************************************************= *******************************************************

____= __________________________________________________________________
This= email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For= more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
= ______________________________________________________________________




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.b= logspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/= G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088<= /DIV>


*************= **************************************************************************= ***************************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk
This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for th= e use of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in err= or please notify the originator of the message and delete it from your sys= tem.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any= attachments at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message= are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opin= ions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise.
***********************************************************= *******************************************************

____= __________________________________________________________________
This= email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For= more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
= ______________________________________________________________________
=



--

http://g3xbm-qr= p.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

=20 --0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <1.3277531738@web28104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAARAFIDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDsPib4 l1ax1Ww0mzuZLG3nwZLhOGbJA4PYDPautj8GaQLURsbyV8czteS7yfXO6uc+IfjLwvpd1HpHiHSb i+3L5imNV+X6EsCD9K46L4jeD0t/s0Q8Ux24GBEt58oHoPnzimoSk9Ee0puWGpxp3g1u0t/PdMe/ ivXdFvPEWj2+pz3dvbpIsM8rb3iwwGQ344+ta3hL+zr7w6v9uaRq8tzNuYagqyy+YMnBVlJKkdPw qLSvFHgO80W8sLTQ72G3mws548x8HIy24nqK7bR9b0jStISzsra5S2to8qrEE4J9c+prDFVqeESd d8t9rmlTNcNV5qGHi/aJq9tHtu7d301XzMfwh4judSN3p3h6AyWtm2fO1a7ZpDnoAApIHHfpWne+ M7/QdNubrxBojWwjcJC0E6yLOx7DoV4Gee1chqniXwRHq81yNK1O1vVc757KTyix79HH8qhuviL4 PazktdQs9cv4JhgpdSiQDHORl+D7itopyty9djavhFf2s6L5dL9/PXms7+n3Hbv4o1yLw7/bz6La /YvKE5iF4fNEfXP3MZxzjNYcvxXcz2BtNFM8F6dsQ8/Em4EKVIxjOTxzjkVyZ8feDG08ac0fiU2A G37Kbhdm30+9nHtmny+Pfh9JNp0i6HqcX9nnNuse1Qp3buRv559a09hU7GFNYNX56ber2utLafa3 udxq/jzVfD2pWdtqugx7bzPlLbXW985AwcqBnJFT3vjPVdI1vS7HVdFhij1GURxtFdb2QlgPmG0D +IdK4rWPib4J12+s7y+0vVmms23QlSqgHIPIDc8gVbl+I3g/xX4h0ZZ9N1T7VFdRrbNlVVXZ1wTh uRkCj2NTsZx+rWjzUuj5t9+ltfvPX6KKKzPGPCPjL/yNcH/XAV55H3oorpo/Ej2qX8BHUeGv+PWf /fH8q9Lg/wCPSf8A64j+YoorwOLf4dH1f6HgYD/kaVvWP5HnOsf8hK6/66GsO+6J9TRRXs4Xan/h X5H6Hjf9zfov0KVFFFekfMBWn4b/AORq0f8A6/oP/Ri0UUpbClsfUdFFFeWeSf/Z --0-1993944366-1267119700=:10413-- --0-1458950515-1267119700=:10413-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI021-eaba4b864bcf3ae; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:07:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2392338000085; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:07:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkabi-0001X4-DV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:06:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkabi-0001Wv-05 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:06:10 +0000 Received: from smtp104.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.102.67]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkabf-0002kg-6q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:06:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 3723 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2010 10:06:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:References:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index:In-Reply-To; b=k4YapAgSepyb0UCB/BKrXrZ0nngzpcowH7VOkB+ZurvZnajaO0EG6ZRnOhMZVX8a4y2FJWnlNAnB+mhsg//ZHxSZCaT5c6Tf0eqzdr/iPDbmZ1kioe/Alu5nz9HLCJVivYtW+sM+uT0W+htEUyup6u6UjFtNrMPj6yKw2CVTpN4= ; Received: from host81-154-167-201.range81-154.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@81.154.167.201 with login) by smtp104.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 02:06:00 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: 7BniH7oVM1mSJqwmdgsag1sjwY8a8poH0_BfysP424kMtd2kErHmalc7YH.5ef.siAHtPknxpredBwr82hNTujcrPOOBgn4_cF2h9XuDuNdYxI539Cgjq7n6LQGrBlc3Qcx8IM.3CX0BGsVYSkUuktF6mZFUqM7oSQKd30WC_tKHKl5Vnvo1xkBJoGze.VbzvbIsz5G0fCkowYaonG4FsqKvLEOKQHAsTdsBDXUWUTr8tNzX7BOXW.yRt7J.quFA6YY6whDkQp.UxFviKdf8mGO3qjpntTss2sCsTwbBoRL_hFypuSHhmB2d1.HeRreSeLymm29DoK5btSMO7Pd3thcGT6Wow_uGVGIjhwoaviCkLR2MsIpQcRXMo9Ruu3liFx5iLwAOTVF_s_nzcGdOQQ8asXP_PMvMZ7vyN5mF.7rrp.vNtWF9ESL7yNxZ3WnXWQm2Sq3jViueSFUa6WYsWoR0HbjILXj5vY6AczL2hShKX1rPbnE.f60- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Ken" To: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> <6D84087F68F641C7938B42CE6067AA35@JimPC> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:05:56 -0000 Message-ID: <2021F4D9DCF542B290883FF2F30AB357@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acq1lol+vY1xBNG5S+W1t7Mx4tx2LwAas+KQ In-Reply-To: <6D84087F68F641C7938B42CE6067AA35@JimPC> DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b864bcd7e87 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC081-86044b82f82fe0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:33:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 491D238000092; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjftU-00051S-1t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjftT-00051I-MC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:43 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjftR-0005ew-3B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:32:43 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801607B8048 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64AAF31E705 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:32:33 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:59 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZwAAIOX4AACHOB4A== Message-ID: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop>,<38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b82f82d71e4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainla= nd Europe as counterweight ;-) Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipol= e? 73, Chris G4OKW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF051-5ef24b718c4324f; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:24:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B93D1380010E0; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ness3-0003xe-9S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ness2-0003xV-Qv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ness0-0002dT-Kc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsGACsbcUtZ8Y7s/2dsb2JhbACHe9JYhFQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,437,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="301834325" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.142.236]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 16:23:17 +0000 Message-ID: <001201caa9a4$2edb86f0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:23:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: DX on 600m Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b718c405786 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Well done Albert I have worked across on 500 using qrs3 several times last year. 73 and gl de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: LF: DX on 600m > To all, > > This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in > FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 > kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a > couple of nights. > > 73, Albert PA0A > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC074-a97e4b859a3bc4; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4472638000075; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOmW-0007TH-C5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOmW-0007T8-0u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:32 +0000 Received: from warsl404pip4.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.117] helo=email.aon.at) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOmT-0007ki-5W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:28:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 11326 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2010 21:28:21 -0000 Received: from 188-23-67-238.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO [192.168.1.101]) ([188.23.67.238]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub93.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Feb 2010 21:28:21 -0000 From: Gerhard Hickl To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:28:20 +0100 Message-ID: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b859a3904c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello group! I know, it's a little bit "off topic" but if anyone is interested: Today two big MF-Antennas (585kc and 1674kc) located very closely to Vienna had been taken down. The smaller tower was 120m high and the other about 265m. The latter was the highest man-made object in Austria until today 14:00z. The power of the transmitters was up to 600kW. I don't know about other countries but at least in Austria MF is "dead" since several years. If you talk to younger people, they hardly know what you mean by "MF". The site name of the two antennas is "Bisamberg" or maybe "Vienna, Bisamberg" and if someone is interested, please search on the web. There are a lot of infos and even the video of destroying the antennas by explosions today. I don't appreciate this senseless act of destruction and in my opinion in was a wrong decision by the responsible people. But, as always, nobody asked me. Cheers and 73 OE3GHB Gerhard From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b8406ef322; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:48:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EDA87380000AB; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxvE-0002Mf-LI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxvE-0002MW-B4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxvC-0005Js-NV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Received: (qmail 31276 invoked by uid 507); 23 Feb 2010 17:47:22 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 17:47:22 +0100 Message-ID: <201002231747340421.06FDF639@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:47:34 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: rosemary.border@numeo.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Test at 1645z 23 Feb 2010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b8406ec71dd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Some of my effusions don't seem to be getting through and some are delayed. F5VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.208]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF052-5ef34b83ef013d; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 854BB38000085; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjwKU-0001MW-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjwKU-0001MN-1Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjwKR-00048j-3l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:05:42 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NF5bdm018170 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:05:37 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0hTyc/6I2WNK3SrSmSR0NcpIY5QADNuuu References: <757273.75752.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.144828 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64" Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55405 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d04b83eeff23d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alan, =20 Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be neglectible, co= mpared to the ground losses. And one has the advantege to reach a high C= that is easy to adjust/modify and cheep and that has no overvoltage and= heating problems. Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same= , in principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a lossy diele= ctricum? ;-) =20 Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, of course, but= it may be difficult to get proper C at those voltages. And if we are talk= ing about connecting the end of a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the= next question is: Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A= coax, say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the inner line.= But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it back to the shack and co= nnecting to ground would mean not to use the soil as the conductor any mor= e and throwing the coax just on the bottom would be nonsense since then,= one could just take a standard wire which is principally almost the same= like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would mean to require 100s= of m of cable to get the same C. And in such a configuration a high C to= ground is essential since one wants to have a practicable small L for res= onance (to handle the losses). =20 Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs just a high C= with less voltage (probably <1kV).=20 If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal section and make a re= ctangular loop out of it, the XL will be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then= a C of abt 1=B5F will resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm= losses will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no problem= to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is much easier since no= L and maybe even no R transformation is necessary. And with a horizontal= section of <50m, the increased loop area when using the ground/soil may= be not really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with a hig= h R and/or less Q... =20 =20 Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell his ideas. Mark= us? Go on! ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I worry that this= will form a lossy capacitor because the dielectric a think film of ali ox= ide will break down in places at this voltage and also there is the inknow= n of the contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can be= a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as a capacitor in= an HV pulse generator many years ago and though the spec is 6kV it certai= nly survived 15kV with no burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed= this format at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either= of us did any tests. I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative old TV EHT type?? Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a lot less to carry= if you are operating "portable" Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > Rik, Alan, >=20 > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > vertical loop by using the ground. >=20 > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper > C (to ground), especially when talking about high voltages > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and easy to > adjust/modify... >=20 > Stefan > > ________________________________ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB499.A805FA64 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiYPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IFZMRl84 Ljc5IGtIegA6BgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAXABAABQAlAAIANgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFwAQAAUAJQAC ADYBAQmAAQAhAAAANjUzNURDOUI1M0M2MDI0MUExQjBEMUZGMDg3QkQ3RkEARQcBA5AGAOAXAAA4 AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAZPoFqJm0ygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9 REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSC0xMDAyMjMxNTA1MzdaLTEwMjAAAAAeAEkAAQAA ABkAAABSZTogQVc6IExGOiBWTEZfOC43OSBrSHoAAAAAQABOAIAYTxiEtMoBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAA b3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+ oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwBTTVRQAG93 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mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-dc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC044-86a24b7fc608d4; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:22:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C1CB63800009F; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:22:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NinOd-0001bN-Jv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NinOd-0001bE-7F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NinOb-00070k-1M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:15 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1KBL6c6003472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:06 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:06 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: Loran A and C Thread-Index: AcqyHssBLjzcbpHmRi2QkoMbJSUPKg== Message-ID: <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> References: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> In-Reply-To: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7fc6064b76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar= rates, walking through one another in time. I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse= group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chitt= ering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit"= and the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4= of the way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you= hear "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just= before half way through the recording. The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and lower= audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through to= nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presumabl= y this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though the= treble will be represented by both the parts just above 90kHz and those= just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this is= caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what Lawrence described= as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing". Could som= eone more knowledgable than me comment on that? * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see only= one half of the spectrum. For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA073-863f4b6dff7a1d5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:47:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6D35380000F3; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:47:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NduLb-0006jg-NX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NduLb-0006jX-5X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NduLY-0007fI-OI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:55 +0000 Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16NjUih002610 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:45:31 -0500 Received: from G4gvw@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cf1.6dd3643f (37252) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:45:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.68] ([92.21.38.152]) by cia-ma07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA072-91844b6dff122e7; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:45:28 -0500 From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:45:23 +0000 Message-Id: <1265499924.4877.10.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: G4gvw@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b6dff784a6a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi All, I have not been following this particularly well but would like offer another alternative approach. With the plethora of low-cost offerings in the 2.4Ghz and other "free" bands how about a low-power battery operated RF link as a means of decoupling the antenna from a supporting structure or cable. Such a device might be Solar charged during the daylight hours and continuously transmit the signal from the antenna(e) to a suitable Rx over a considerable distance given suitable link antenna arrangments. This obviates the necessity to provide a physical path for an optic or other transmission line and has the elegance of being "radio" at frequencies in "our" part of the electromagnetic spectrum. My apologies if someone has already suggested this - it does seem kinda obvious from the bit of the wall that I'm coming off! On Sat, 2010-02-06 at 23:50 +0100, Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer wrote: > Hi Victor,=20 > =20 > Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design or= also with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28= V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-) > Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically") apart= from the house? > =20 > "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decr= eased, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases and the in= fluence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus the in= put voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the same.= And if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visible= signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noi= selevel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be a noise= source in the near of the shed, isn't it? > =20 > I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2 UKW= variable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends wh= en it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful bu= t interesting ;-) > =20 > You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? > A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse, when= you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that? Or= is the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) > =20 > Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that conversatio= n and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the bes= t signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p.= =20 > =20 > Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contact to= VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the lon= gest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal :-) > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > =20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@online.n= l > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast >=20 >=20 > Hello Stefan,Roelof, > =20 > for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The an= tenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height be= tween 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a= low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and= higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to= 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment= I replaced the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thi= ng.This could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the= same potential as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glass= fibre changes things but for me this is not very practical because my whip= draws 120mA @ 28V. > Hope to hear more from your experiments, > =20 > 73 > Victor > PA3FNY >=20 > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]= Namens Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer > Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast > =20 > =20 > Hi Roelof, LF, > =20 > Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question= ! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a sign= al but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the= application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast,= the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ve= ry high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active elemen= t (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm= sources? I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are= comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) > =20 > A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since= in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, eve= n when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has jus= t a few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen,= when the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element= (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in= the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one= has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a= short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that= is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground pl= ane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignorin= g the local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? > =20 > On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active anten= na mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy= bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active elemen= t since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length= was still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal= ! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? > =20 > I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through= the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy en= vironment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also= 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, eve= n without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. > =20 > What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same= "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 > =20 > Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pl= ay with ;-) > =20 > 73!! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted > =20 > =20 >=20 > Hello Stefan, > =20 > Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't= work=20 > well on a metalic mast. > I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a= =20 > suitable mast. > =20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > =20 > =20 --=20 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b819111161; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 973E13800009D; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyZ-0007JT-NM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyZ-0007JK-9p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHyX-0004eG-Gr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1LK0JRI015004 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:20 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: AcqyWEUMEAOjC6K9TNmkK+3cLXxnVQA1u+oq References: <11800210.1207699.1266689280876.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.21.194820 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB330.7E6A87E6" Subject: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b81910f51fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB330.7E6A87E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Horst,=20 =20 Interesting VLF tests! And Alans hint is a good i think.=20 =20 Does one need a special licence for that band in germany? I am almost sure= about that ;-) What are the limitations of that licence? ERP or output po= wer?=20 =20 I think i would try a long long long short dipole, e.g. 2x500m in some met= ers above ground, perhaps beside a forrest and with less conducting ground= . Maybe even with the ends connected to ground to form something like a lo= op that has the most of its area in the ground. =20 What is your locator? =20 And what have you done to be of those who have got this licence? =20 =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Sa 20.02.2010 19:08 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Despite I do not expect that anyone will receive the transmission, I'll gi= ve it a try. The beacon ist transmitting on 8.79 kHz in QRSS until tomorrow morning. Horst DO1KHS ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=FCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! 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ACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAeADNAAQAAABYAAABob3Jz dC5zdG9lY2tlckB3ZWIuZGUAAAAeADhAAQAAAAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAu AAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGENte/yUDAAcQYwMAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAEA AAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISUhPUlNULElOVEVSRVNUSU5HVkxGVEVTVFNBTkRBTEFOU0hJTlRJU0FH T09ESVRISU5LRE9FU09ORU5FRURBU1BFQ0lBTExJQ0VOQ0VGT1JUSEFUQkFORElOR0VSTUFOWT9J AAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUIwM0BG aWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AAAdIw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB330.7E6A87E6-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME034-8bab4b746bb9253; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:42:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C471380000F1; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:42:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffqz-0001Ys-KA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffqz-0001Yj-96 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: from mail-pw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nffqx-0004z4-Cd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:41:37 +0000 Received: by pwj9 with SMTP id 9so83459pwj.16 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:41:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Ug1aeMdzyhkvE6kOep8sLeG1L97ZwUwwfTSSJO6orTk=; b=lFqWzoK5u3ZskrgqCIUXH6I8UkpB6OIl6yIHcNYEVLSBObp5hdIFv7Kb1ND9kSpTPt 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SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d225.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b746bb73c6b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.
--000e0cd1b120cfae56047f592c26-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.11.13]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA052-86154b7bc588133; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:36 -0500 Received: from mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.78]) by imd-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Inbound Mail Deferral) with ESMTP id 8C8497001CE74; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ED12538000401; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:31:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhhAZ-0007J4-Gj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhhAY-0007Iv-N3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:10 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhhAW-0007SB-5R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:10 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Feb 2010 10:30:00 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp015) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2010 11:30:00 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/XKlZrJ+3XLkU047YqspkpaG2wXxA0J7jbyijSOE r13ZDxQvzgB47q Message-ID: <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:29:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002,0.46000000000000002 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404e4b7bc5855c86 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W= , with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it= must be 3:1 teh only=20 solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages.= Indeed, it does turn out=20 to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone= exchange' PSU (50V 25 A)=20 and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the PSU= current limited when=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it= current limited at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). = So it really was giving=20 more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in= fact, if used as a=20 switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 70= 0W 137kHz Tx,=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enough said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz wher= e the transformers began=20 to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / efficienc= y. So as a 13.56MHz=20 industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp. BUT= , with suitable change of=20 output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137= or 500kHz - if a suitable=20 PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentation done,= and any further work can=20 wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and refer= ring to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z)= transfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above= design to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc= path from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connected to= the center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coa= x section (1:9 or higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondary is= nowhere connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit= in linear mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power= on the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losse= s of the low pass filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF he= ater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the cal= culations said it needed=20 to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise kno= wn as a bootstrapped=20 coaxial transformer, but just configured with different reference poin= ts to confuse everyone.=20 Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the= answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bit= s of coax, which are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 imped= ance). Add another turn,=20 so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange= the grounding points and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA= has two separate, non=20 magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA pra= ctice, and being so normal=20 in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enabl= es the designer to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced= operation, and even to=20 provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one end to be completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is= permitted with the basic=20 Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 tr= ansformation by the same=20 bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as= a twisted pair rather than=20 coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of= HF antenna constructors.=20 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax giving one turn more=20 than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ..= . On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and= %20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org] namens Andy=20 Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.co= m Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/1= 6/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).
> So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought= to'
 
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with= a 1kW slug=20 would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW element +/-125W.
Power master is a bit better with +/-= =20 30W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Tuesday, February 16,= 2010 8:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity

A follow up to this sage  
 
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how= it must=20 be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.  So I connecte= d up and=20 measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - &n= bsp;=20 So   how could it deliver 1kW plus...
 
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink,  got out the 't= elephone=20 exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would=20 give.   Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplyi= ng only=20 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limi= ted at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off=20 44V).    So it really was giving more power out than= it 'ought=20 to'
 
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element an= d in fact,=20 if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.   I'd= used this=20 aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf =20 and forgot it.   Enough said.
 
Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about= 5MHz=20 where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where= the FETs=20 lost gain / efficiency.   So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit= its fine,=20 but of little use as a general HF amp.   BUT, with suitabl= e change=20 of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on= 137 or=20 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.  That's where it sits= =20 now.   Experimentation done, and any further work can wait= for other=20 projects to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net>=20 wrote:
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over the= transformer of=20 Andy's PA and referring to
=
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%) = sure that it=20 is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points whic= h exclude=20 *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,<= FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers provide= no dc=20 isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.
There is no such dc path= =20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the=20 braid of one coax end is connected= to=20 the center
conductor at the= start of the=20 same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1:9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this desi= gn.The=20 center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.
 
BTW there is no reason to worry= about the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven= you get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so= you have=20 enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used=20 as industrial RF heater=20
was designed to be superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February= 09, 2010=20 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA= matching=20 oddity

BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it,=20 convincing.  Sorted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio)=  just=20 as the calculations said it needed to be, and is indee= d,=20 effectively, an auto transformer.  Otherwise known as a boo= tstrapped=20 coaxial transformer, but just configured with different referenc= e=20 points to confuse everyone. Your second reference= , the=20 Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)  gives the answer. &nb= sp;
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9 Ruthroff&nbs= p; =20 UnUn .   With just two bits of coax, which= are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9= =20 impedance).   Add another turn, so three windings are&= nbsp;=20 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding poin= ts and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosf= et=20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pull= HF PA=20 practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hi= des=20 hides a big real advantage - it enables the designer= to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced=20 operation, and even to provide DC isolation,   Any con= ductor=20 passing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf = ;decoupled=20 from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitte= d with the=20 basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giv= ing 1:2=20 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when= the=20 transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, th= en wrapped=20 on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF= =20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression tha= t helps=20 illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax giving one= turn more=20 than it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial cris= is ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe= <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
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------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAFC4.877764C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.165]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB064-a77f4b6dbc0b220; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:59:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F7BF3800005F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdprN-0005qC-Pv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdprN-0005q3-EG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from mail.tula.net ([212.12.0.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdprL-00069R-72 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:58:25 +0000 Received: from [212.12.27.30] (account ua3pw@home.tula.net HELO ua3pw59fc4bf05) by mail.tula.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTPA id 61629584 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:58:22 +0300 Message-ID: <00b901caa75e$5a8795c0$0501a8c0@ua3pw59fc4bf05> From: "UA3PW" To: References: <20714.4cd687f9.389eb751@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:58:21 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: : Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecf4b6dbc095b28 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI dear Nicolas and LF . Many thanks for information . Victor ua3pw / ko93jv . Thanx Markus for this information. Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HI dear Nicolas and LF .
Many thanks for information .
 
Victor ua3pw / ko93jv .

Thanx Markus for this information.
Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France.
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Miniwhip
 
------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAA777.7FA29A30-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b6d9d2fea; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:47:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0ABD538000118; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:47:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndnnw-0005EK-RK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndnnw-0005EB-C7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndnnu-0005GX-BP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:46:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o16GkdNg022503 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:46:41 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:46:39 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:46:39 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: active ant on metallic mast Thread-Index: AcqnLBzyrShBW58pQ76YPb9JbK7HfgAGwooB References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.6.163624 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9" Subject: LF: active ant on metallic mast X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b6d9d2d6d19 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roelof, LF, =20 Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question! "Won= 't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a signal but= perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the applica= tion is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, the capa= city of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be very high= (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (gate= of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) =20 A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since in a= coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even whe= n a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, whe= n the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the opt= imal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to= define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short= dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is dir= ectly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.= g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the= local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? =20 On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active antenna mou= nted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy bad.= I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element sin= ce signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So= less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? =20 I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through the am= bience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environme= nt (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m up an= d DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even without= local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by more gain= but SNR decreases, of course. =20 What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen if th= e ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active element? Wh= at will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "impo= rtance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 =20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p UKW= radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to play= with ;-) =20 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't work= =20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a=20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA74B.F40F57B9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIAAAAExGOiBhY3RpdmUgYW50IG9u IG1ldGFsbGljIG1hc3QACAsBBYADAA4AAADaBwIABgARAC4AJwAGAFUBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAYA EQAuACcABgBVAQEJgAEAIQAAAEU5NUQ1RTE1MzBDRDBFNEZBMjY3NTUxQjc3Rjc4N0Y0AEEHAQOQ BgCIFwAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ALlXD/RLp8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAATEY6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAA ADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwNjE2NDYzOVotNDM4AAAA HgBJAAEAAAAjAAAAUmU6IExGOiBBVzogUmU6IHRlc3Qgc2lnbmFsIHdhbnRlZAAAQABOAIDVfVYr p8oBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEA AABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3No 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ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b6f051338e; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D282C38000127; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:23:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBmF-00038q-PX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBmF-00038h-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeBmE-0002Yj-2d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:22:35 +0000 Received: from COL122-W36 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:22:27 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:22:27 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 18:22:27.0054 (UTC) FILETIME=[806E30E0:01CAA822] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_" Subject: LF: G4JNT_beacon X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b6f051129da X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_" --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! The beacon of G4JNT is very good visible just now. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
The beacon of G4JNT is very good visible just now.

Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn= =E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Micro= soft Zaregistrovat =3D --_afb9fcf5-62eb-4ae2-b1fc-ea3f4af905c1_-- --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100207_G4JNT.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABeAJsDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwDBxn tRRRQAUUUUAFFSzWtxbBDPBLFvGV3oV3D1GetRUAFFFFABRRRQAUVonRLwRpIohlVuT5EyTFf94I SR+VIdD1QRtJ9guSi9T5TfyxmldbgZ9FXpdJvbdY2ntpIw/QsMDFVZYJYCBKhXPIz0P0oTT2Ajoo opgFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFTWrRpdwtNEJYg4LxlioYZ5GR0+tQ0UAdz4l1jR3+zxrpdu4C5Ux6i9wV H93cTx9MCsW21XQ4p1e40MXEY+9Ebl03fiOlYFFYqjFK13950rFTUeWy+5Fm/mtri9lls7X7Lbsc pD5hfYP948mt221vwzFbxRz+ExMyxBXk+3yqzvjluOBn0xXM0VcoKSs/zMIysWrma0k1AzW9o0Nt uB8gyl8DuN2Aa059U0WSd3h0TyIiflj+0M20emT1rCopygnuXSrSpO8bfNXPWfCmoaLpVoPtujTa U8vWe43+XMOoPzDHT0rp5vFPhxUENtqNl5h6iAlM+3yLkn8a8Ga8unjjja5mZIhiNS5IT6DtUFcF TLoVJ87k/v0E6rbbPc08TaPZSYbVoklGSIw0j7fyUmuZ8T+J/DVzZwrNpVvqsp3FZ476RWTPc5Gf wI7V5lSk5A4/Gt1hIqXM2yeYSiiiuokKKKKACiiigAoopSSepJ7UAJRSnGflJI9xikoAKKKKACii igAoortNI8LQ3WiWV5F4e8Qa89wjPLJpMoVLZg7L5TjyZPn2qr8kcSL8vcgHF0VqeIdNh0nW5rOB pCipG5jlILwsyKzROQB88bMUbgcoflXoMwY7igBKKKKACiiuk8L6FDq9veztp+parPA8SJp2mOFn ZWDlpc+XIdiFFU/L1lX5h0YA5uiuk8UaFDpFvZTrp+paVPO8qPp2puGnVVCFZc+XGdjl2UfL1ib5 j0Xm6ACiiigAoBIIIOCKKMYoAVmLMWYkk8knvSUUUAFKMd6SigAooooAK6i316w03QbOOzsLGa88 pxKbm0jkeO583Ily6MHjMDCMRk4DBn2hgrNy9d54It/COoJZWOrzXcUrXsbXkM+qC2tZow3Dj90R lUaTIaRDj7jEvtUA5fxDNY3GtzSacI/IKRhmij2JJKEUSui4G1GkDsq4XAIG1fujLq5ql1DeX7TW 63awbESNbu4E8iqqBQC4VQQAMAbRgADtVOgAooooAK6TwvdWNvb3qyXOm2eoO8RgudTs/tUAiAfz E2eXJhyxiIbZwEYbhnDc3XWeC7LSNQdra91SPTbuS9tk85rgwE2bLKl0Fc/uwdrIcPjIBAyTtIBX 8UXVjcW9ksdzpt5qCPKZ7nTLP7LAYiE8tNnlx5cMJSW2ch1G44wvN10GuXNldaHpcltDBZTNLOz2 FrPJJDGn7tVlxI7lZHKuCNwyscZ2gEFufoAKKKKAClGOc59qSigAo6UUUAFKQR1HWkpQM8d6AEoJ yaKKACu40fxF9n8OWscOueI9Cjs/3NwdJg3wzyO8jrJIwmjxIV+TBBO2Ec4GF4eu40TUdCi0GCL7 RpVrfCJl3X+nm4K3Xmk+cx8p8w+R+6Cc4kIbyxjzAAV79LfWLrxNfz2c6SW+lW08D3AKSSP5trGb hwDy0qu0hyW5lzljhjx9dp51jcDxlJpwj8g6Pbhmij2JJKLm0ErouBtRpA7KuFwCBtX7o4ugAooo oAK6jwjq32GK+tYrrVdPuptsy3+kxeZOkcSyGSMjeh8sgh2O7A8lcg9V5euo8IXmhWn2n+2Eg5lh Z/PgMvm2o3+fDHwdkz5j2v8ALja37xM8gGwlzb+KPEPhOxvJtV1i1m1UQTalqaGOSZHeENbgiRzt QZbh+DOeF6t5/XoemXVjceOvBix3Om3moJrERnudMs/ssBiMsXlps8uPLhhKSdnIdRuOML55QAUU UUAFHGPelBwc4zQzM5yzFj6k5oASl4wfWkooAKKKKACiiigAroLHxXNYaHHp8WnaU00UpdLqbTba Z2Q5yjmSNi2DgqcjGWB3Dbs5+igDoLTWkltvEsl60EVxf6fHDCkFssSM63Nu+AkahV+SNj0Gcep5 5+lJzjpx7UlABRRRQAVsaDrx0P7YPsFjdrcRbAbm0hmaJxyroZEYDngjHzKSODtZcenAbuAACATn 1oA6bRvExk8ZeHr/AFQWNva2OoQzSPa6fDBtQSKWJEKAtgL3z3x1rl6KKAD8aKKKAP/Z --_4cef32cd-58ff-4b4e-a8f5-301b7c4b5c76_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b89f5e4259; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:49:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3B649380000B0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlb4Z-00006I-GL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlb4Y-000069-Q5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:06 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.26]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlb4W-0005r3-UR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:48:06 +0000 Received: from COL122-W35 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:47:57 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:47:57 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 04:47:57.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[32681270:01CAB831] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_" Subject: LF: WPF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55605 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b89f5e35925 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_" --_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crossed by= strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what it= is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The si= gnal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_b59c6164-c9a7-4d94-9c08-68cba25e564a_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was= crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know= , what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the cit= y. The signal was 30dB up the noise.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG
=
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AQoBI5IHWq1FFABRRRQBbQD7LJx2qpRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQBZ09Ve+iV1DKTyCMin6miR3zqiq qjsBgUUUAU6Ud/pRRQAlFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAPl+/+AplF FABRRRQB/9k= --_9185d343-e13b-4766-b606-b24a0260d557_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b673855f8; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:23:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2D1C238000220; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2nG-0002sE-BK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2nF-0002s5-WC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:45 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2nD-0001R3-3v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:22:45 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsoEADrHZktZ8d/D/2dsb2JhbACNIAPNKYRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,385,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="290210216" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.223.195]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 20:22:35 +0000 Message-ID: <002401caa37c$4632d890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:22:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: QRM 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b673852440f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OM PA3FNY can u pse qsy your qrs beacon to either the top or bottom of= the band. You are causing QRM ro cw stns in QSO MODE. You are in the= middle of the CW part of the band. DE MAL/G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OM PA3FNY can u pse qsy your qrs beac= on to either=20 the top or bottom of the band. You are causing QRM ro cw stns in QSO= MODE. You=20 are in the middle of the CW part of the band.
DE MAL/G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA37C.45F00330-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.18]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784b6f345f328; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:45:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EEF843800016D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:45:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEvJ-0005ut-EZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEvJ-0005uk-3g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEvH-0004YY-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:44:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 77424 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=kAIJw3NFCxPVATgGK0aLWItwIxjnd49opzFte52ZCd97665Ios/a/lzFneILyePkgnU9du+aIFSYfI6KqVqk7JunxlqeA/zuV2zwDF0luCzCjpZc/vSJEXC86VEzqv5oODexqowRnf0+x9fmBbNiYxRlYVR4ptUBqAleWH9qxT4= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 2GvJQmIVM1lf4lOTsUNISnmcqOSbOxlVHnJPA4lMtOek13LyLd2aIPg8QSc0TSkMUgG2PxngdCrhP7z39foAjDMSPksIJcU2bGDBw6IMXL1SxCx63_R62.X5wjOMyKI8ZbNfJKb2T.qMytY3fUgqtGKB5lZuWRsR9yfiUmh94QoR.rC.Z0Gy9m_qLmHcBm8szrvw9tsfH8scuBhWXXmIU56pvq1y6LO40fCLOLtC1FUcL0NDqiJyIa4.fpCoyBd_ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <2B95E52385E0403897EF3C47A9A2B6F7@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41124b6f345d30a2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Andy, LF Group, I just repeated the test with G3ZJO's rather weaker signal - reducing the audio bandwidth to 50Hz increased SNR from -13dB to +15dB! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.214]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB093-864b4b6e96ef18; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:33:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E9B54380001DE; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:33:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4R6-0001XT-5b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4R5-0001XK-Mq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:15 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4R2-0008CJ-QN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:32:15 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXG00GLOVXFY9@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:32:04 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:31:57 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0790133BD5734948A64FB352804421FC@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: : VO1NA 07-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d64b6e96ed2f5f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_wPbLl+Qgl+H8iz8a0BpU/Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ)" --Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,welcome on 137khz. the first capture VO1NA. Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VO1NA 07-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_imxn+Rf5qpdZIYMDXPbzcQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,welcome on 137khz.
the first capture VO1NA.
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VO1NA 07-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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556b905b8f3210f7 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d44b6f226d0261 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingham= & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet. One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. Keep trying. 73, Gary - G4wgt. On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on =93= odds=94 > lets see if I make it. > > > > I=92ve had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not lettin= g go > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:50 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > OK Jim, > > > > Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding th= e > port. > > > > GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave&= #39;s grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall,= it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet.

One consolation is that it would not be visible or aud= ible for CW.

Keep trying.

73, =A0Gary - G4wgt.

On 7 February 201= 0 20:00, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

3 captures of yo= ur signal so far all about -17dB. =A0I am Txing now on =93odds=94 lets see if I make it.

=A0

I=92ve had comm= port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

=A0

OK Jim,

=A0

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag,= another app was holding the port.

=A0

GUD LUK, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be= very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (eve= n minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd1a9a027dd11047f08825c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA043-863c4b7ef64824d; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 37946380000AE; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZZI-0006SS-FM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZZH-0006SJ-UH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:19 +0000 Received: from imr-ma02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.40]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiZZF-0002S9-37 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:35:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.196]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1JKZ3lu004115; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:35:03 -0500 Received: from White (e179160227.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.160.227]) by mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id BFD72E0000A7; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:34:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: "Peter Martinez" References: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55249 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c44b7ef5f32fbe X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55252 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b7ef6461005 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340" ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Laurence, good to read you're back in AK... Your observation is interesting. In your region, there should now be= two chains left on air. One is the Canadian West Coast chain on GRI= 5990, which is still supported by US stations, including your nearest= one Shoal Cove (5990 X). The other is the Russian-American GRI 5980,= which should be supported by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect= is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar rates, walking through= one another in time. The attached screenshots are the results of feeding your wav to SpecLa= b's time domain scope. Using 64 averages on 5990, AM-demodulated pulse= groups from all stations from the West Canadian chain are visible. The= timescale appears a bit too long because the actual samplerate was cl= ose to 22.200 kHz, rather than 22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When goin= g to 5980, we can see only a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unus= ual format for Loran-C, probably indicating an error condition by "bli= nking" the first two of the eight pulses. One possible reason for this= might be the Russian master being down. It would be interesting to look at an SSB recording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB= ). This could reveal phase coding within the pulsegroups, and possibly= allow verification of the blinking secondary. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Laurence KL1X=20 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Loran A and C =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Lor= an on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky wave= s did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the Ame= rican 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I= took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permet= er E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly ph= asing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing= it before but of course a lot of the chains/half rate are off so....= Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today= up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link= of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file= beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pre= tty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this= evening but low power as Im playing with the matching - ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up= now. =3D=20 ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Laurence,
 
good to read you're back in AK...
 
Your observation is interesting. In your= region,=20 there should now be two chains left on air. One is the= Canadian=20 West Coast chain on GRI 5990, which is still supported by US=20 stations, including your nearest one Shoal Cove (5990 X). Th= e other is=20 the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be supporte= d by Attu=20 (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegro= ups of=20 these very similar rates, walking through one another in time.
 
The attached screenshots are the results of&nb= sp;feeding=20 your wav to SpecLab's time domain scope. Using 64 averages= on 5990,=20 AM-demodulated pulsegroups from all stations from the West Canadian ch= ain are=20 visible. The timescale appears a bit too long because the ac= tual=20 samplerate was close to 22.200 kHz, rather than 22.050= as assumed=20 by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can see only a single group of= 6 pulses.=20 This is an unusual format for Loran-C, probably indicating an error co= ndition by=20 "blinking" the first two of the eight pulses. One possible reason for= this=20 might be the Russian master being down.
 
It would be interesting to look at an SSB= recording=20 (eg. 98.25 kHz USB). This could reveal phase coding wit= hin the=20 pulsegroups, and possibly allow verification of the blinking=20 secondary.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
=
 
Being of a certain age  I oft recall=20 the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the mus= ical=20 sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the= closedown=20 of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and= Russian=20 chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m= ) permeter=20 E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasi= ng noise=20 very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before= but of=20 course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whe= ther this=20 is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of= iono=20 smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like= from here=20 in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards= the=20 end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP= 51 Eye=20 Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
ps=20 the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good -=20 Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low=20 power as Im playing with the matching -

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. = Sign up=20 now. =3D ------=_NextPart_001_001B_01CAB1AB.6262B340-- ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01CAB1AB.6262B340 Content-Type: image/png; name="loranalaska_5990.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="loranalaska_5990.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA3gAAADmCAIAAAAIiLC3AAAQ5ElEQVR4nO3dzY6ruJ8GYPo/ Z6RcUC1ymb3oZS963erL6EUWdUElzYw0C1SIwmCcYJMf8Dw6OkqRBByHjxcbk9/++fvPx7+P 3//4qwMAgHr+8+4CAABwToImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0ISgCQBAE4ImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0ISg CQBAE4ImAABNCJoAADRxtqD5+Hy8uwgAAHTd+YImAABB/Ko+x6FN8f5x3zIlM0MAAOKrHDQf n49xdrx/3F+bkplh3QIDANBI5a5zQRAAgF79rvPuu7Nb6AQAuLImQbOPmE17uo0uBwAIrknQ 3MFShBVAAQCCqHyNppwHAECvcotmP4R8ePzylO675332KQAA4qvfdZ7GwY1T5EsAgCPyy0AA ADQhaAIA0ISgCQBAE4ImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0ISgCQBAE4ImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0ISgCQBA E4ImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0ISgCQBAE4ImAABNCJoAADQhaAIA0MSv6nN8fD76B/eP+5YpmRkC ABBf5aD5+HyMs+P94/7alMwM6xYYAIBGKnedC4IAAPRcowkAQBP1r9Hste7mHi7cBAAgpiZB 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mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 416E13800D9A7; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NbzgK-0002E8-3v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NbzgJ-0002Dz-Oq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:23 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NbzgG-00006J-DS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:23 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhwFABSYZktOlGzA/2dsb2JhbACNHwOOeb5ihEUE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,384,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295776690" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.148.108.192]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 17:02:57 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01caa360$62ebf820$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:02:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: MARCONI JEEP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b670a772376 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems the old MJ (marconi jeep) T1154 is popular in Holland for use= on 500 and one GW stn using an old OCEAN SPAN (another variation of= the jeep for marine use). Look out for a T7 chirp=20 G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It seems the old MJ (marconi jeep) T1= 154 is popular=20 in Holland for use on 500 and one GW stn using an old OCEAN SPAN (anot= her=20 variation of the jeep for marine use). Look out for a T7=20 chirp 
G3KEV
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAA360.629FACE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE063-5eb84b8307ff384; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:41:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D726538000134; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:41:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njgwa-0005mG-3P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:40:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgwZ-0005m7-Kd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:59 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgwX-0006Bo-1p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:59 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id B985D51C004 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB936F3862 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:50 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:37:49 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5kOPJfwyNXJzQ56vS7rOj26Y0wAJjtCOAADKj+k= Message-ID: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com><9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com>,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b8307fc7109 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > But with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered. indeed, but "the whole world" is merely 5 wavelengths at 76Hz ... 73, Rik --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Bu= t with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered.
 
indeed, but "the who= le world" is merely 5 wavelengths at 76Hz ...
 
73, Rik
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4067ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.149]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD104-86b24b6d84a565; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:03:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B14573800019C; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 10:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdmAI-0004xh-OR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdmAI-0004xY-AZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from mx74.mail.ru ([94.100.176.89]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdmAF-0004cs-Mv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:01:42 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=17999 helo=EFREMOV) by mx74.mail.ru with asmtp id 1NdmA8-0004b1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:01:32 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <004e01caa73d$41d9d900$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:59:42 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,URIBL_SBL=1.094 Subject: LF: Who it, what is it (137.693 khz)? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40954b6d84a325f9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 LF-group, My capture last night: http://rn3agc.msk.ru/filez/100206-137693.jpg Image from grabber DF6NM: http://rn3agc.msk.ru/filez/100206-137693-2.jpg Also the signal was visible and on all other European grabbers. 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA034-86634b8662f022a; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:45:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7AB4B380000B0; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkc9B-0002hL-Kx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkc9B-0002hC-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 Received: from mail3.uk.thalesgroup.com ([194.30.184.68] helo=alfaes02.gwserv.thalesgroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkc98-0003rZ-Hm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:44:49 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,539,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="2612014" Received: from echoes01.gwserv.thalesgroup.com (HELO gwserv.thalesgroup.com) ([172.31.141.5]) by alfaes02.gwserv.thalesgroup.com with ESMTP; 25 Feb 2010 11:38:45 +0000 Received: from ([193.150.182.142]) by echoes01.gwserv.thalesgroup.com with ESMTP id 8BYFQH1.1553176; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:36:38 +0000 Received: by temps153538.tms-ltd.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:33 -0000 Message-ID: <8E8D23D235D70840B6582917DF27898006935CAB@temps153538.tms-ltd.com> From: Reeves Paul To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b8662eb0a56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Andy, Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse through the document - too much info........ 73's Paul G8GJA -----Original Message----- From: Andy Talbot [mailto:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Sent: 25 February 2010 11:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with. In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna : At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = 88*10^6 m^2 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal. A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted. Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state. Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ? So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy. When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth. That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov < fitec@omskcity.com > wrote: Hellow, Stefan. > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km it should be approximately right. This email, including any attachment, is a confidential communication intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. It contains information which is private and may be proprietary or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and immediately delete it from your system. Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses of this company is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Andy,
 
Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse through the document - too much info........
 
73's
Paul    G8GJA
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Talbot [mailto:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
Sent: 25 February 2010 11:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers

From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB.   This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with.
 
In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna.  Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast
 
To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna :
At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m,   G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2,   G = 1,   so  A =  88*10^6  m^2
 
1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is  1.1E-11 W/m^2
Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377)
= 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,    or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz)
 
So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth
 
Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal.   A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted.
 
Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state.   Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ?   
 
So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy.    When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth.   That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km
 
On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
Hellow, Stefan.

> If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be
> reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz

With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be
recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be
very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas
about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km
it should be approximately right.


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------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60F.9D3B14E0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.221]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b68137a3f; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:58:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 45AB2380000EC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 06:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcHNj-0005Et-2U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcHNi-0005Ek-Lz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:22 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcHNf-0006jv-Rb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:57:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 26170 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=V0CxfULUDFVaDhTcwigye2dVKRzLxE26f990Ekhlu3Zw0Ys9tYJYapmilyEbq7DJhOpU+gwAnZ0WDQLAFFYZTe5TGE9Tyilx/ManNd1PUsxu8RMWmI/FwAFtD6JvbtXIjGsjHuI+zDr3sYj6djDh22NpJLau4avmRvAEocaKQjI= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: VFHX2QkVM1loEbqn.2W83.NVnneCXet1ZvYtM.ZNk9m5gGS8nkzKZSycAYOBRlmqsSAWQkWtC7HmTlRhDDShptaVICWa3iPTF1Zbr6JTQMoJ.9doPeyqOnhJHK_qXlSn9GpV2ql_w.8Zaj.pOxBY2AYolUEl9d1Lku2f7dvLKQTAhyz2s4Zxble.0zzE.ECEHCadmSsF00Z_0GMuUaTDzT5fyIOT1U0j6vnOuHyocJzLruiuqXSzZ0PSfPFvL2PmcmYoXLpp8_3x.uyTRAb6tfZpD.La2AlhD9Mmzg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> In-Reply-To: <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:57:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dd4b6813792d2f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres, rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring precision optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm > multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA091-85eb4b6b2cfd322; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:24:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DA620380000A5; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8EB-000663-6R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8EA-00065u-Qs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:02 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd8E8-0003sy-2p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:23:02 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o14KMwVG017888 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:22:59 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:22:58 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:22:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE6@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE6@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: OE5ODL Thread-Index: AcqljtjzVJd12q+cSHqqPZQnT7BYegASNu9V References: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.4.201224 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321" Subject: LF:OE5ODL X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b6b2cfb1dab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ossi, what is the power you have in the moment? Tell it in -X dB to ful= l power if you want ;-) =20 73, Stefan ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjsUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEACgAAAExGOk9FNU9ETAB0AgEFgAMA DgAAANoHAgAEABUAFgAAAAQAFgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIABAAVABYAOgAEAFABAQmAAQAhAAAAN0Q1 QkIzN0NENjMyNEE0MUJGOTUyRThCQzhDRDNFOEYAeQcBA5AGAOAJAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA /cywtNelygEeAD0AAQAAAAQAAABMRjoAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxF LVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDQyMDIyNThaLTM5MwAAAB4ASQABAAAACgAAAExGOiBEZWNjYQAAAEAA TgCAjjb3jaXKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcA AAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBA YmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAC AVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVSLVJTR0JfTEZfR1JPVVBAQkxBQ0tTSEVFUC5PUkcAHgBdAAEA AAANAAAATHVib3MgT0syQlZHAAAAAAIBXgABAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAA AEx1Ym9zIE9LMkJWRwBTTVRQAGJ2Z2JvYkBob3RtYWlsLmNvbQAAAAACAV8AAQAAABgAAABTTVRQ OkJWR0JPQkBIT1RNQUlMLkNPTQAeAGYAAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AZwABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVy LXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AaAABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBpAAEA AAATAAAAYnZnYm9iQGhvdG1haWwuY29tAAAeAHAAAQAAAAcAAABPRTVPREwAAAIBcQABAAAAGwAA AAHKpY7Y81SXddqvnEh6qj2UJ0+wWHoAEjbvVQAeAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJs YWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwBAAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAAAcAAABP RTVPREwAAAIBCRABAAAA1wIAANMCAAB/BgAATFpGdRTVg+MDAAoAcmNwZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMw PwEDAfcKgAKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKA/xADAFAEVghVB7IR1Q5RAwHdENcyBgAGwxHVMwRG ENlvEusR4wjvCfc7GM8OMDU7EdIMYGMAUAsJAWQzNpMRYAulNCAQAipcDrIDAZAOEDkgPEhUTUBM IGRpcj0eMHI8Pn0d8wAhAzAfQWRv5wDgH0EKsVxxGLAfQRDwbwMwH6URYB2rMx2AHqBF3EFEH3Ad rArjICOvJL8GZx1wDvA8U1RZTEZFI50nIyEtLQqjLhRobQeBcx5QZSBQTwqkAAAKsgDAcmcLgDq4 MHB4GeAKsgqwZB8AfG5nK2IKpB+ACrIG4GQueSmIKkoCEi0AkHplaDogMStwdCukLxNmRGFtAxB5 OlYEkGS9AHBhLLopECfPHoEvJ38XJa80nx3KNidBTUVUDEEgMXAHgD1HRU6ARVJBVE9SIAWgYwIw CfB0PSIF4B6zOBAuMDAuHOAwMS5kMTgOMDkiNB0nMi8vI18nATZvHkE1EWA8QrhPRFk5IAtgBBA9 KZdHNB0c8T3fZzk2HpBEhElWHvYgaWQ9Q7AgT1dBUmULUHlUoGV4dDE0OqA5H3k/AAAgpSFDIQEh mR3JNjRDRSoht0hpIE8EEGk4LCB3EQAFQAQAIHSiaCoQcG93EzF5CGD6IBEAdioQC4BKowRgB4Cp AjA/IESAbAMgaUphqQOgLVge8EJKoG8vAN51TPFK9AaQS0N3AHAFQPg7LSkdyQHAH4cKoh+H6wpx HawwIyEvQvEfeVFY/x2cQW9Cfx9bRc9G30fvSPkFHas4HYAmbmJzcPMCgB+YJ2EBQFnPUD9RT/9S X1NvXB9Vj1afV69Yv17P01rfY+c3M0oQUzlgMLB+bl9fYG9hf2KPY58+WTh3M5E/MjJ+NzxCHsEf cH0BdOAAHgA1EAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQUU2 QEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAB4AORABAAAA bAAAADw1OTMxZjhkYjEwMDIwNDAyNDN3MWZjMDEwYjFyOTFiNDM2MDIxZWNhMjlhZkBtYWlsLmdt YWlsLmNvbT4gPENPTDEyMi1XNDY2MThFQjAyOTc4NzUxOTVFQTgzN0QzNTUwQHBoeC5nYmw+AB4A RxABAAAADwAAAG1lc3NhZ2UvcmZjODIyAAALAPIQAQAAAB8A8xABAAAAIAAAAEwARgAlADMAQQBP AEUANQBPAEQATAAuAEUATQBMAAAACwD2EAAAAABAAAcw/cywtNelygFAAAgw486M19elygEDAN4/ r28AAAMA8T8HBAAAHgD4PwEAAAAPAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAAAIB+T8BAAAAXAAAAAAAAADc p0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1IU1QvT1U9RVJTVEUgQURNSU5JU1RSQVRJVkUgR1JV UFBFL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049U0NIQUVGRVIAHgD6PwEAAAAVAAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0 cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/ 4gQAAAMAGUAAAAAAAwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIA AAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91 cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAATAAAAYnZnYm9iQGhvdG1haWwuY29tAAAeADhAAQAA AAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAA AwAGEIRRcGQDAAcQVAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAFUAAABISU9TU0ksV0hBVElT VEhFUE9XRVJZT1VIQVZFSU5USEVNT01FTlQ/VEVMTElUSU4tWERCVE9GVUxMUE9XRVJJRllPVVdB TlQ7LSk3MyxTVEVGQU4AAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQw REQ4NUU4MkExQUU2QEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5k ZT4AANd+ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA5D7.D780E321-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF023-5ee84b69d9a9124; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:16:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6BB5B38000B0D; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:13:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nclad-0006EU-DO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:12:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nclad-0006EK-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:12:43 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NclaY-0002ZY-QJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:12:42 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2010 20:12:31 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5dfda.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.223.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp060) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 21:12:31 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19tdQ0nmt9tAUwA0SPXqPODjkAFegHmXFDKODYUNL cP5gwbz0FTfugA Message-ID: <003501caa50d$3786a7d0$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:12:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100203-0, 03.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.58999999999999997 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608a4b69d8ea2c71 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo James, I catched you. vy 73 Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:19 PM > Subject: LF: test signal wanted > > > Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFC= W on=20 > 137.7?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="dfcw.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dfcw.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/4QAWRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAAAAAAAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcG BQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgy PC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIy 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fPjnw8D0/tO2/wDRi1gmt7wX/wAj34d/7Cdt/wCjFr9ExUuXDzfkzlXxHUaasF3o0FraKvii 7W1DfZZXWCW1IQsIUDJ50iqVZsQSgHDZVc/NwE86yyM6wpEjMSscZO1PYZJP612Phz/kk/jf 62v/AKNSuIP3RXm5VTVOpWitr/15fckXU2Ru+NP+R78Q/wDYTuf/AEY1YNb3jT/ke/EP/YTu f/RjVg16lD+BD0X5GZ//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CAA50D.35480270-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME034-8bab4b7f0860c; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:53:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 05BE4380000B5; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:53:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niam1-0006x6-Tp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niam1-0006wx-It for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nialz-00033H-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:52:33 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E7730015 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:30 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:52:29 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b7f085e36cb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.207]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB101-85fc4b7118971fb; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:11:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E919438000050; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NelAF-0002oD-RX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NelAF-0002o4-A4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: from mail.ebirds.it ([151.8.133.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NelAD-0007NF-L3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:43 +0000 Received: by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 460D168E8A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:09:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3523968F62 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ebirds.it Received: from mail.ebirds.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mamba02.ebirds.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fD-aw9o9wZjw for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from imac2 (host185-41-static.24-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it [87.24.41.185]) by mail.ebirds.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA28686BC for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:08:55 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Marco IK1ODO -2 In-Reply-To: References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b7118950f76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 22:50 08-02-10, you wrote: >The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. > >Andy Correct, but those are pulse transmitters with low duty cycle, no way to put them in QRSS :-) If anyone is interested, I have the schematics of the transmitter once used in Sellia Marina, master of the Mediterranean chain, QRT since a long time. Valve (tubes), of course, 1950 technology. More power in the filaments and air blowers than in RF! Vy 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-dd02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD024-86aa4b6b1ca43b2; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:14:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0516B38000210; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:14:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd78y-0005dO-R2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd78y-0005dF-Fj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd78x-0003PV-5Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:13:36 +0000 Received: from COL122-W49 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:13:27 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 20:13:27 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 19:13:27.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[218C2880:01CAA5CE] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_" Subject: LF: G3LDO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b6b1ca2108f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_" --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I have just seen signal of G3LDO in normal CW. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I have just seen signal of G3LDO in normal CW.

Lubos,= OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1,= d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_7df0413e-a57b-44ca-ae46-1d2054036f89_-- --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100204_G3LDO.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAdAPoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwCgkn rTi7MioT8q5wK6rRfBo1/wAOXGq212IXtmZJYnXIYgAjBzkZzUznGCvIDlCMAcjkUlbWs+HZtEur GGeUS/ao1k/dj7pJwVHrXTRfCy9kkydRgEW84IUklMcH654x+vaplWhBXk9B2Z5/RU8tq8McrPw0 cvlFffnP8qhRS7qijLMcAe9aCEoBIOQcGrklncW91c2TbQ0WTJ7hc9K1dL8NDUfCupawbkRGzYAK Rw3A/wAamUlFXYHPUV1sPw/1CTSrbUHuYIo5V3ur5DRjtWDZ6XNd6uumK0azu2wMx+UHr1+lClFq 6YFCjHGccV12q+ArvR7We4uLuF1SPMYTOWfd93H0zXO6Xp8uranb2ELBXmfaC3QepoU4tcyegFOn xIHmRGYIGIG49BnvXXaT4HTVdf1PR01AJPaAeW5TKuc85qDxT4LufDVrBNcXsc5kk8oKqkbQBwf0 rP6xT5/Z31HZ2uYmp6YdOnWITpOTGJGMY4AJx1qhXYz+E5NF8T2GkuwvPtsS+YFUqY1Y4LfhjP4V zerWB0vV7uxY7vIlZA3qAeD+WKuNSMvhYWKVTxu0NvIVdQZf3ZXvt4P88frXQ+DPCH/CWXVyjXgt orZQznbknOf8Kva/4BfQfD8mp3V9G03ygQxqcZLY6nk8c1m8TSVT2Tfvdgs7XOJorZvdBmjn06OG RZZdQiWWOIdUVumf8fas+/tRZX81r5gkMTbCw6Ejr+ua3EVqK6Xw34Sn8Q2stxb3UcTxShNkinno Sc/TtVvXvCDeGP7Pluj9uS5lZZCikYHGAOfvHk1m60FPkb1HZnH4OM44orurr4bapbpLCt7buN2+ CPkGQdyeOMD61meHfBdz4il1BILlIhaHaGdThzk/l0/Wk69NQ576BZnMUVv+IPCd34dhjmnmiljk laNTHnt0Jz078e1YakNsRjtUHritE1JXQhlFdZpHge41zR4b+yu4gxLCSOXIKkHtis3TvDk+oeII dJWeMO5bdIgLKoGcnt6Ypc8dddgMWius0bwjLr2pXWnW88cEVlIyzysCWYgkA498HjtVTxH4RvPD VvbS3U8MhmJBEeflI6deuRU+2p8/JfUdnuc/n5QMDg0lLxjrz6UlaCFCljgDJqxFqF3BZTWUVw6W 05BkjB4YjpmqwJHSihq4Fl9QupYYIpJmZbc5iLHJT2HtUya1qUZi2ahdII/u4lPHOf5mqFFKyAfL K8zl5GLMxLMxOSxPUn3poJVgykgjkEdqSlDFTkHB6UwHPNJJJ5kjln7s3JNTpqF1Hp81ikpW2mcO 8Y6MR0/z7VVooAtSalfTQCGW8uHiChQjSErgdBiqyuyNuVip9QcVJcxrDOyLnaMEZ9xmoqALE9/e XPM93PLyD+8kLcjoeajhnmt51nhkaOVTlXU4IP1pgHyk+lJ2xQBZh1C8t7k3MN3PHOTkyLIQx+pp Lm/vL0g3V3PORyPNkLY/Oq9KBkMfQZpWV7gaUniDVZdQW+N3J9qXIWTuoPYe1Uri5murmS4nkMk0 hyzt1JqIHac0lFkgJ7e8ubQSi3uJYhKuyQI5G5fQ46in3OpX16oW6vJ5gAABJIWHHTrVWiiyvcC3 PqV3cTxTtKRJFGsSMvG1QMACqpJZizEknkk0lFMCeO7uICGglkhAYldjkYJGDg/TitCLxJqcWnz2 b3DSpI6yK0p3tGwI5Un6YrJJJABJwOgpKTSe4F6bWtTuLtLqa/uGnjJKOZDlM9cen4UtprN/YwSx WtzJD5sqysyNgkrnH8/0qsIl+yGY9d+3H4VDRZbAWZNQu5rX7NLcSSQ+Z5gV2Jw3OTz65NVqcwAV CM5IyfzNNpgWYdRvLf8A1F1ND8uz925XjOcce5NOs9RurCWWW3lZJJIzGXBO4AnJwex4qpRQBqXG uXTX13cWkj2y3S7JFQ43A4znHcnnPvVS7vb28ZftlzPMyDC+c5YgfjRfW6W04jQkjYGJPuKrsxdi zHJPJNKyvcBO9FFFMD//2Q== --_53255637-16e0-45ee-94eb-02c529d1082f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.208]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b6f1c081e8; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:01:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 511223800022E; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDIk-0003uU-22 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDIj-0003uL-HV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:13 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDIi-0003XJ-KL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:13 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207200006.BRDL10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:00:06 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDIc-0002On-5S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:00:06 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:00:04 -0000 Message-ID: <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoLuxOJJZHbohnT0mB9uQhGnMb8QAAPbww X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=9h1oTapCOFi4V8hbF4UA:9 a=TttF2pSkXtmdV2PMg-sA:7 a=-iwIPMUyoYvjGzHuzEpCQxtiZLQA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=RbPdqYqTG2kMiSey:21 a=8sDbWclzW1_vjxnt:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vwiN2YWM253eC6NsM2AA:9 a=0wN8dpT6fboIl1xSFEsA:7 a=4Dg9fu5lcRkRo2iPPsOwdF62hW4A:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d04b6f1c061306 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on "odds" lets see if I make it. I've had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

3 captures of= your signal so far all about -17dB.  I am Txing now on “odds” lets see if I make= it.

 

I’ve had= comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:50
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

OK Jim,

 

Up & running now, just had a comms port= snag, another app was holding the port.

 

GUD LUK, Gary -= G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

 

I am listening out for= you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will= be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx Fir= st (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  = Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01CAA830.23C24030-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF021-5ee64b6f6f131cc; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:55:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D7E8D380001AD; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:55:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIpG-0006z1-NU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIpG-0006ys-CA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.59.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeIpF-0005gy-2o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:10 +0000 Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fDte1d00F0mv7h05CDu0Ql; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:00 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fDtz1d00B2DDHkk3XDtzlV; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:54:00 +0000 Message-ID: <001001caa861$948293c0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <001201caa85f$9670ba10$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:53:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: Yankee thunder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b6f6f11732a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mal Bob and I have been running WSPR lately on 510 kHz (dial). Switched back over to CW / QRSS3 on 506.5 kHz earlier tonight but have shut down now to go into receive mode. Signal made a showing on G4WGT grabber. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: mal hamilton To: rsgb Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: LF: Yankee thunder No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on 500. Where have they gone? mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mal
 
Bob and I have been running WSPR late= ly on 510 kHz=20 (dial). Switched back over to CW / QRSS3 on 506.5 kHz earlier ton= ight but=20 have shut down now to go into receive mode. Signal made a showing= on G4WGT=20 grabber.
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS =20 WE2XGR/2 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 mal=20 hamilton
To: rsgb
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 8:39=20 PM
Subject: LF: Yankee thunder

No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately= on 500. Where=20 have they gone?
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAA837.AB88D720-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b7713f234d; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:04:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 97DEC3800009D; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:04:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgP9R-000756-Kc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgP9R-00074x-7p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f218.google.com ([209.85.218.218]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgP9O-0002ns-Tl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:41 +0000 Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so3424128bwz.35 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:03:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6UhafaNdwgLrXaZjQWEJTEBK6ClddNdb3FNig+ObAj4=; b=SlZD1Du5zX9ccwU/1+TRxBEICuM6EVtL/wPwb1Z6lqkxP7lElPcrrfLTCLB+0FSedE 8oBNnmsMvicdMJJsHQUGbjNl0HYq7lTAg7W2mWbt5J750xKX+yxrfJs2GPP4WbsMzVhi 7SD9CY1Jlle5Ga9ezzYU0mHZKB6dsa/gf02S4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ItdWveFheT6Ary7XHht3Jsdtlclp0oPiRG46U8fjwuKS1XVZh3rcF3cIF2U3fPW2gK Y3x4lyiUvDoDkXVn2UQg4dWH9NOgUp0iqY0NaJDosEUeFESpePxiMCBAmZhRP8wW0G+A WdzW07L8htPpxYYtG9ukRweIhDrf7HmDTXp7g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.86 with SMTP id n22mr1976495bkw.75.1266095011633; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:03:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:03:31 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m209.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b7713f07104 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until I've understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with this software on any mode yet. 205600 12 -12 -0.4 -7 0 CQ *G4WGT* IO83 73s Roger G3XBM On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT wrote: > Hi LF, > > Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, > 503.600 kHz signal frequency. > > Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until= I've understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have neve= r TXed with this software on any mode yet.

205600=A0 12 -12 -0.4=A0= =A0=A0 -7=A0 0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 13 February 20= 10 20:19, Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.1= 00 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d03966b9a1d047f81b7f0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.32]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b742f9d351; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:26:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5DDBC380000BD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfbp8-0008VU-4B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfbp7-0008VL-MT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:25 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfbp5-00036d-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:25 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr4.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BGNHJG068602 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:17 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b742f972dba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all, As a non business customer, I have great difficulties in sourcing small quantities of the SFH750V and SFH350V or other members of the same product family. Digi-key and Farnell don't carry them or require a 200 pieces minimum order. Does anyone know of a suitable source? I need these for making an optical link for my mini-whip and some other interesting tests. Thank you in advance, Roelof bakker, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE033-5eac4b79306dee; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:30:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C671D38000337; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:30:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngz8R-0002rU-DJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngz8R-0002rL-1Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from psmtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngz8O-0000o3-3q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:29:03 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXV00MH8RW3R2@psmtp04.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <713A9D2642AE4EAF9C9BB0F93B1DE319@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 15-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b79306a1c07 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA)" --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Nice capture and audible 507.77khz henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 15-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Nice capture and audible 507.77khz
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 15-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_CVE8x1ScqVtLzU+11R5VdA)-- --Boundary_(ID_VSkfgXq0hhRsadu9TyWNrQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 15-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 15-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABOAxQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHyhIZPqPGo14SQPx0RimwVVygzVejY lyaTTWWlXRLhrLJTAscihLqhmShk2ORjt1sAlxArKZFTJXRdU3Ux3QgyMLZauNKq6wyaLJ0s 1NF1UqhVWUhAPXlavEAnYS5Gy1l7QH405uUDlMEImJgxSbk5mmuGzFJZvSUbbhsVmnwCpLIc uHFkG9XSGZxl45jvcFq8VDycOKhDlbTjJI8Um2BKZQO1ZfSHzb9H4vYhkTkUm3jPj81ZPoNa mDKuZGzK1CD3IaJ+ft4rl19Dhj16+tXkcqXXc1ssclN1zc/B3hvop198c8cPXc/0ThX0+DF6 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b=eKfL4laF88cei3ZPtAWaeQBAfnVF2gpjqRgkiZrO0R53l392DFJ/lXqGM1aY4/5Qm4BtOFoAMZTVU+S6BLOTu/DllJGHrOWj9y5dyiPy6IVfr3dHAMF8UDU0oB6NOvWO2KQA/gBu+u67qeeTwT8aqOAA9ytlVpHf289744SvuRU=; Message-ID: <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 5bSosmgVM1miNrvQkIto5cLs0NddSyiuoBW2hLeyUurf9KIpV3RI4qO36Pe938n.rBt46KRDbY09JnqLIf96YFepEwPe.6LdNK3UcLPb0kKnwHP4mg2EmvTiLJ8fz_eW_Eplwp9rAi.pqWevG07AU9pk.PYK5swr52ikZCfFCNmWuES0QYevDr6GzIbcfzfNGl4WtFyVcSngpzh_lhs9OolauND2iiuLskkRN3GMcaC0UwzV3WyNzBEdr.Mra.Vi8BbTZobnzDliifRaVNxYyN8wpQ637OptNbgsC.lwhgD1dU153w5ztartio14d9kSH4IQmg-- Received: from [86.153.188.195] by web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:25:44 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/272.7 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:25:44 +0000 (GMT) From: SAM JEWELL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6822f215e3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV systems use fibre link= s, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser) is amplitude modulate= d with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or regional Centre. These= carriers are usually locally generated but can also be from directly off-= air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The modulation index can be= held quite high for a single carrier, progressively reducing for multiple= carriers in order to minimize intermodulation between carriers. Ultimatel= y, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will be noise-like. Those= of you who have worked with the old telecom carrier based systems will= recognise the same characteristics.=20 The earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF= frequency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorio= n and added noise. Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amp= litude modulation of the light) came later. >From the laser (or LED) input to photodiode/PIN/APD output there will be= a certain link loss and system noise figure. If the system parameters are= known, this can be modelled using e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some system= s signal to noise ratio is critical. For LF systems, where there is a fair= ly high noise level, it may be far less critical (famous last words). Not all fibre systems use digital modulation of the light, although in mos= t cases it is still amplitude modulation. I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry the RF and IF si= gnals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes) at satellite eart= h stations across the site to the demodulation and signal processing build= ings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many years ago. Whilst= working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radio over= fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. These ea= rly fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the adjace= nt ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends! 73 de Sam, G4DDK ________________________________ From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13 Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer= fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres,= rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre los= s is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visib= le red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic= fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitte= r/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring preci= sion optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/= docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain= component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute tow= ards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electr= ical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fib= re in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the det= ector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will con= tribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself= is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage drivi= ng the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impe= dance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link= - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical= link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also= be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so= the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm mu= ltimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km...=20 --0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV sy= stems use fibre links, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser)= is amplitude modulated with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or re= gional Centre. These carriers are usually locally generated but can also= be from directly off-air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The mo= dulation index can be held quite high for a single carrier, progressively= reducing for multiple carriers in order to minimize intermodulation betwe= en carriers. Ultimately, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will= be noise-like. Those of you who have  worked with the old telecom ca= rrier based systems will recognise the same characteristics.

The= earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF fr= equency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorion and added noise.= Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amplitude modulation= of the light) came later.

From the laser (or LED) input to photodi= ode/PIN/APD output there will be a certain link loss and system noise figu= re. If the system parameters are  known, this can be modelled using= e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some systems signal to noise ratio is critical= . For LF systems, where there is a fairly high noise level, it may be far= less critical (famous last words).
Not all fibre systems use digital= modulation of the light, although in most cases it is still amplitude mod= ulation.

I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry= the RF and IF signals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes)= at satellite earth stations across the site to the demodulation and signa= l processing buildings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many= years ago. Whilst working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radi= o over fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. Th= ese early fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers.
As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the= adjacent ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends!


73 de Sam,= G4DDK





From: James Morit= z <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13
= Subject: LF: Loop preamp= with the BF862 / optical link

Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group,

If I remember corre= ctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer fibre and are inte= nded for short-distance optical links of a few metres, rather than telecom= ms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss is not really an= issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible red LEDs, altho= ugh I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre could be simp= ly cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitter/detector component= s with reasonable results, rather than requiring precision optical connect= ors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN
Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency= gain component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribut= e towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of= the fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of= the detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter= will contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link= by itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input= stage driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very hig= h input impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the= optical link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reas= onably low.

Most optical links are used with digital signals, so th= is analogue optical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion= products will also be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna= obviously works, so the principle is viable.

Cheers, Jim Moritz73 de M0BMU


----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, Februa= ry 01, 2010 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my= loop preamp with the BF862


> Hi Stefan.
> 150dB/km,= is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fib= re was only 1 or 2dB /km...


--0-1171024689-1265113544=:50947-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.148]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA012-b4f04b6e91b429e; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:11:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41E6F38000087; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne45L-0001Im-Te for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne45L-0001Id-JQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne45I-00083y-Ue for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:09:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 5364 invoked by uid 507); 7 Feb 2010 11:09:21 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 11:09:21 +0100 Message-ID: <201002071109230982.122C3852@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:09:23 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV 30dB over noise on 137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b6e91b335f6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 1000z. John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784b87e24c2c5; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:01:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2586B3800031A; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:01:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl1fQ-0005zA-VK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl1fQ-0005z1-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl1fO-0006Ki-D5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:48 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so139033bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:59:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=c1CfeUuB63BtnvoRaOa6CrwOyBtrnV8Ix51NI+NjMTU=; b=n8uUBPgaF5CnBoTc3AX7aF6sMh4O9UYE3P7c1cTeWEVQUFL99LY9G2GjkCTmOl8aZe yFjjhvXq7VDZeJsH2GnUGHvhn18VPp8eEqpBq89h3Nz2JpAq8YUVTRidSEBx20XTAXPL 9D0P823OvTYqVyPDu301XPexiHiMMK4yszdmA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=jrt+IPsNDvsqLc5FPj+pwgR9PU4t+DOSECHFbDxxIfOJi4pjraVwt5qrCi8fCoKrlQ gWzWNEyzLr++OlAP66ux2CIrvxbyubSD8inKsL3flqtT4yotRtqdhYv7ahlZihhybq16 26Tp4fuBgZXVFyzXwk0IyDVrtu4nhbIeprFv8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.153 with SMTP id g25mr361858bkw.158.1267196377426; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:59:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d04faefebde0480822554 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m258.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b87e24506c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d04faefebde0480822554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham wrote: > Warren , > > If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' > discussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken > hold ! > > G .. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM > To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below > 9kHz? > > >> Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not >> extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for >> nothing.... >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >>> >>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>>> received >>>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >>>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>> >>>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>>> as >>>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>>> Act >>>> 2006. [...] >>>> >>> >>> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >>> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >>> continent >>> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >>> radio >>> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >>> strengths >>> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority >>> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >>> usually >>> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >>> >>> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >>> ask >>> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >>> will >>> need a license for that" clause. >>> >>> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >>> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or >>> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you >>> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >>> >>> VY 73 >>> >>> Jacek / SQ5BPF >>> >>> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice >>> >> >> >> > > > --0015175d04faefebde0480822554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for=A0abt 4=A0weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.u= k> wrote:
Warren ,

If you =A0thin= k this is bad, you =A0should take a =A0look at the =A0'ROS' discus= sion's in the yahoo =A0 digital data group .. =A0SS =A0paranoia has ta= ken hold !

G ..

--------------------------------------------------
From= : "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010= 9:31 PM
To: <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Perm= its for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Thu= , Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lap= thorn wrote:

People may be interested in th= e reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OF= COM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio= Regs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz.= However in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into grou= nd dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field str= engths
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority
and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the gov= erment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agree wi= th you there will always be a "but you will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them= if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmi= ssion from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in th= e 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jac= ek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very= nice






--0015175d04faefebde0480822554-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF032-8bde4b86a50a12f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 75953380000AB; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkgXk-0005jF-2Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkgXj-0005j6-Ls for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:27 +0000 Received: from qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.17]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkgXh-0006dG-At for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:27 +0000 Received: from omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.90]) by qmta10.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mCF01d0051wpRvQ5AGSHuf; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:17 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mGU01d0042DDHkk3eGU061; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:28:01 +0000 Message-ID: <001801cab636$f792c240$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:24:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: AW: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b86a5080dc7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan This latest setup was put together for the SAQ test in December. I've= used various loop=20 antenna/receiver setups in the past and have had reasonable reception= of SAQ however no reception of=20 Alpha. This was the first time for the e probe / Perseus setup and it= worked very well...after the e=20 probe was put on battery power and transformer decoupled. Most of the= time there were no 60 Hz=20 products in the frequency range of interest (10 kHz - 80 kHz) and the= noise floor was very clean=20 sounding. No filtering was used between the e probe and Perseus. There appeared to be a noticeable quiet spot in the waterfall between= ~ 8 and 9 kHz. I didn't=20 investigate if this was an anomoly in the system or if there happens= to be a quiet spot at that=20 frequency. As time permits I'll look into that further. Jay ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:39 AM Subject: LF: AW: Re: VLF test signals? Tnx Jay, Uwe, Jean-Louis, group, Jay, that sounds to be a good RX concept. You do not have a band pass= filter in the preamp? What=20 about the 50Hz or 60Hz ;-) lines and the levels they generate at your= RX imput? No problem? Well=20 decoupled by the transformer? Sounds easy and at once to be built... On that VLF SDR, the russian transmitter at 11,904kHz is really weak= to copy :-( 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von jrusgrove@comca= st.net Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 13:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10k= Hz range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed wa= terfall) and audible here a good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310= version of the Amrad e probe, battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all thi= s may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency= and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase th= e RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD074-8b8f4b86944417e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7173A38000083; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkfQZ-0004wC-Ij for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkfQZ-0004w3-7n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkfQX-0005wP-LR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:14:59 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1048120qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:14:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=nHXsV1SQRX81IKZLiOIoCm8+/ZrN4lqpXkMCNjRyttk=; b=Wlk1rdKvhAAPmsvpJEcZzhMLDM6/DaZ5tbNFnhvCLkTTAXlLXCquOcFwhulRHoSbno +qQOmE9Fw7kU9G8AIcxzk2IPc4SGADdw8DxpApdUr1HVxD4PAz6bPGhcM5qBj7QlToSn jyJ3IPs4t0+bodReuDik0iwcgLrwI6tkm+nfc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Nzv9mqTnfkYGorZBnnyf1gGbEhyhdMWwkyORVq1puUPhwv6Cc58oC59v/QS2PegpoB cpm0RUBanCuP/gKn7yC5KDOh9IdxUJm/VVe2kZDWNO8KDEel2kEmcSV/pAgRm1Y7hKMw FN8k4vHtMbxCa5g+ZxOi8CM1Hdg8zcZvZPres= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.81.200 with SMTP id y8mr962021qak.234.1267110889616; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:14:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:14:49 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m223.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b8694422139 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-dc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC051-86014b8689fb2b3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:32:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1CE76380000AF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkekE-0004Wy-HG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkekE-0004Wp-6G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkekB-0005Ua-QU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:31:14 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F8751C009 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3D331E703 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:58 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225143058.5F3D331E703@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_43975371==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b8689fa4b65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_43975371==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-) Stefan, I left the ferrite rods and moved on to another concept: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4476576.pdf I guess when I get this working Mal will respect me ;-) 73, Rik --=====================_43975371==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-)

Stefan,

I left the ferrite rods and moved on to another concept: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4476576.pdf
I guess when I get this working Mal will respect me ;-)

73, Rik
--=====================_43975371==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.129]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC022-a8d44b8552ff39b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:25:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0F435380000BF; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkK2E-00068n-Kp for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkK2E-00068e-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.76.154]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkK2C-0005WY-JT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:26 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1OGOISS004104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:24:18 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:23:41 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:23:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9IAAEY8GA= Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40814b8552fc6ad7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Rik and others, Thanks for your contribution. > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH:=20 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm=20 Do you mean resistance in the strict sense, i.e. the resistive component= of impedance; or in the rough sense, i.e. the ratio between voltage and= current, which is actually the modulus of impedance? I ask because there are capacitance and capacitance-like effects in the gr= ound. If you are looking at (in effect) a resistance in series with a capa= citance, that could explain the 1/f effect.=20 Regards, Chris G4OKW PS - more details can be found in Keller, G.V. & Frishcknecht, F.C. / Elec= trical Methods in Geoprospecting / Pergamon (1966). See in particular chap= 1 - or probably skim it, as it is detailed and can get a bit boring. Pp.= 43-55 talk about these capacitive-like effects. The size of the 'capacita= nce' (capacitance, not its reactance!) even varies with frequency. If you= look at the graph on p.52 you may need to reach for a bottle of the stron= g stuff ;-) ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.18]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC022-a8d44b830ba8128; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9C224380000F9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBy-00066B-2m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBx-000662-AP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:53 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhBu-0006Nr-IL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:53 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MMtnVL009570 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:49 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:55:26 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B08@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B08@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EQptUkdB+LahRmuDs37S2uyEpAAARVhI References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.224539 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41124b830ba63292 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete,=20 Try to ground your inv L at the end, e.g. with aluminium foil out of the= household, say 5m*0,3m. The impedance will drop since the C will rise. Th= us, the needed L and the voltage will decrease! You can be happy to have the next Lowfers in such a small distance, so do= the job! :-) 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 23:43 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de =20 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjEWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwA3ABoAAQBiAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcANwAwAAEAeAEB CYABACEAAABGMTAxRTQwQTVGQjkzQTQ2QTU5QUVGMjlBODcyQ0JCQQBmBwEDkAYA/EcAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQCcDNAfErTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjU1NDhaLTk2NwAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJFOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAAKEdzELTKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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AAAAAAMAGkAAAAAAAwAdQAAAAAADAB5AAAAAAB4AMEABAAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AMUAB AAAACQAAAFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AMkABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tz aGVlcC5vcmcAAB4AM0ABAAAAEgAAAG0wZm10QHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrAAAAHgA4QAEAAAAJAAAAU0NI QUVGRVIAAAAAHgA5QAEAAAACAAAALgAAAAMAdkD/////CwApAAAAAAALACMAAAAAAAMABhBt7Ps7 AwAHEPEdAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAIAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAUEVURSxUUllUT0dST1VORFlPVVJJ TlZMQVRUSEVFTkQsRUdXSVRIQUxVTUlOSVVNRk9JTE9VVE9GVEhFSE9VU0VIT0xELFNBWTVNKjAs M01USEVJTVBFREFOQ0VXSUxMRFJPUAAAAAACAX8AAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgz RDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFCMDhARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFy bXN0YWR0LmRlPgAAKKQ= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB412.2CCB9AB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.215]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB023-86444b6c7129323; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:27:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E335338000308; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTov-0007Rl-FW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTou-0007Rc-Vy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from smtp07.online.nl ([194.134.42.52]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTos-0005rB-IR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from smtp07.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp07.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFEAF98080 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp07.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:26:13 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp07.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: RE: PA3FNY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d74b6c71274586 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TNX Lubos, very nice capture indeed, 73 Victor JO22NC -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: vrijdag 5 februari 2010 20:04 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: PA3FNY Hello LF! I saw nice signal of PA3FNY. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
TNX=20 Lubos,
 
very nice=20 capture indeed,
 
73
 
Victor
JO22NC
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: vrijdag 5 februari 2010 20:04
Aan:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 PA3FNY

Hello LF!
I saw nice signal of=20 PA3FNY.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAA6A1.76274130-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC041-a92e4b6c5a7e359; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:50:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 802343800016D; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:50:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdSJJ-0006M3-VX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdSJJ-0006Lu-Jq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml108.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.12]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdSJG-00055u-Rs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:49:41 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML108.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:49:38 +0100 Message-ID: <865D5520039B49CBAC384201C9CB5720@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:49:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2010 17:49:38.0267 (UTC) FILETIME=[961DA2B0:01CAA68B] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b6c5a7c0842 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tu Nicolas, best 73s ----- Original Message -----=20 From: F4DTL@aol.com=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 6:35 PM Subject: LF: PA3CPM Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band wit= h your beacon. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2668 - Release Date: 02/0= 4/10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
tu Nicolas,
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 05, 20= 10 6:35=20 PM
Subject: LF: PA3CPM

Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF ban= d with=20 your beacon.
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

= http://lfist= es.erst.azerttyu.net/


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G - www.avg.com
Version: 8.= 5.435 / Virus=20 Database: 271.1.1/2668 - Release Date: 02/04/10=20 19:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA693.F66AACF0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI034-eac14b8113ad4a; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:06:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E768D380000BF; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj9c5-0006Bn-Kq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj9c5-0006Be-8x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj9c3-00020F-1B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:37 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 21 Feb 2010 11:04:29 -0000 Received: from 188-194-84-187-dynip.superkabel.de (EHLO Uwe) [188.194.84.187] by mail.gmx.net (mp047) with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 12:04:29 +0100 X-Authenticated: #9373712 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18w5P9/AI4wuMC+mjAqcQvL/UakD5dQMWJ3SI1FER E3nFfsnBo4Ao1v Message-ID: <5FA0F4589FBB41C1AB6C3445C8C3142A@Uwe> From: "Uwe Wensauer" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:04:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.62,0.63 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: simple SDR -RX Kit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b8113aa3be7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi even not living in Germany, You may have a look at a available SDR- Ki= t The kit was designed for 40m/80m But with a simple modification it can be used for 136 kc . The kit and= 12.8MHz TXCO is from=20 http://www.funkamateur.de=20 read more at wensauer.info/uwe/lwpdf ( German) or contact me dk1kq@kabelmail.de=20 Uwe, DK1KQ ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi
even not living in Germany, You may have a look at= a available=20 SDR- Kit
The kit was designed for 40m/80m
But with a simple modification it can be used= for 136 kc=20 . The kit and 12.8MHz TXCO is from=20
 
read more at   wensauer.info/uwe/lwpdf (= =20 German)
 
or contact me
 
 
 
Uwe, DK1KQ
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CAB2EE.04EB23C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b840c67345; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:12:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DBC53380028C7; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyG6-0002oF-Ht for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyG5-0002o6-Ua for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:17 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyG4-0005cB-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:17 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223170909.JHZ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:09 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyFx-0008JD-86 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:09 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:08 -0000 Message-ID: <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0qFGZ4CmrfK8CQ5a8as7ZZ9x0UQAAdVpQ X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=drx4vy265O7cSwANWzcA:9 a=bmy_ImpU8ThZmZ9SiE0A:7 a=01v3RaaHE21ln-3Y7pyloeUMIkMA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=IaUufKty2zy3Y-9k:21 a=PMIrHIrN0ZCmuTzY:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=DhkEpAFiXBR5hrWFHC0A:9 a=_o13ONZI664K4DpD_ZwA:7 a=DJHmaVD5HjWsr4zNNGQjOvAo2yYA:4 a=s4b6rRNYTMZ368rU:21 a=k59z3zugxmQjbMoH:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b840c084932 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a seizure and the cats wont be happy either! With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DATA Roger Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim might join in. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: LF: DATA Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views, even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrote: Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I shall be ther= e, boots blacked and at the ready!!    

 

Buy shares in= Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in order to turn my garden into a huge capa= citor!   The XYL will have a seizure and the cats wont be happy either!  =

 

With best regards=

 

Jim

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of m= al hamilton<= /st1:City>
Sent: 23 February 2010= 16:49
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: DATA

 

Roger

Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is bu= t the latest Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you= , Jim might join in.

 

mal/g3kev

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent:= Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM

Subject: Re: LF: DATA

 

Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.

Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m fro= m the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was= able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this= morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation= testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity on HF,= although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is wi= dely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wi= ll be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments.= I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but= using the best weak signal techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful.  However, it's a free country and you're entitled to exp= ress your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net= > wrote:

Generally band condx vy good at present= from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns.

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor= , Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.

Observations indicate that data mode ac= ty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and= RTTY are still going strong.

Some will argue that cw and rtty are da= ta but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT,= wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.

Obviously the majority of ham operators= are not interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872= Kcs Dreamers!!

If you fancy your chances on VLF below= 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.

Your observations ?<= /o:p>

 

de G3KEV

 

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_02DC_01CAB4AA.E9580420-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.137]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE051-5eb24b741c7314d; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:04:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F4023800033D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfaZ0-0008Hr-HY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfaZ0-0008Hi-6H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: from mail-yx0-f186.google.com ([209.85.210.186]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfaYy-0002Wy-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:42 +0000 Received: by yxe16 with SMTP id 16so1124216yxe.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:02:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=dM3THPnCXXLYYnWsND/NQPe7PMi2viE66sEeM7J/xIU=; b=bSVM4jpyDUf2wO8fnQ/AJDLVRt6EzYFQH9gdrhWd5CAbmBZdzerVWQQCXFJkAxJCUp 1y+9swGmNvD/+EOe//Gbdv3fVfvAZhpCau98ca9B2PZWLXwPzWvwKGKqZhbfIOwH+UWH DRQ7uWwNWbwk93/j8unt/NWjHkhgk5/BPRsAE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Z3/f0ilILFW512zSJFGrdPyISnVwOUUodyH5cAKa4CM9PUbYR29UZQ7R4xBj01EwHs FQB+VbdOC024OQUN5Ug/nNJaSpjanwTKD1irUMC7FrmIg9Imvgp9BXKqTttRxb5xI4Ci iT/Rw3wkC1GAD/RESqBEtPBFbF+hg59MroQ/k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.160.5 with SMTP id m5mr174116ago.120.1265900546006; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:02:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:02:25 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb lf group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d288.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40894b741c7221f1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA052-86154b841be052; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:18:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F9EC380000E6; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzJL-0003Gx-Qv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzJL-0003Go-Ec for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjzJJ-0006D3-Nu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:16:43 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NIGdMx020995 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:40 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:16:40 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq0qTctyiDPwOwlT7mm4wzAcDzdxgACOKRW References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.180632 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55413 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b841bdc7a7b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Ground resistance is not worth in such a conditions. Coil (or >high voltage transformer) resistance is much grater anyway. =20 So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter,= coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the= needed L. So we have to spend a high coupling capacity to ground (at the= end of Pete's inv-L) and thus it may be useful to spend a high metallic= area to ground which can easily be done by such a foil ;-) =20 BTW, i do not think that the resistive losses at the "ground coupling end"= of the inv-L would be reduced by lifting the foil some cm/inches above gr= ound. The E-field lines in this capacitor model (foil-soil) will have to= pass the same way.=20 =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAJwAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6X2dyb3VuZGluZyBzeXN0ZW1zAKwMAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABcAEwAQACgAAgBHAQEggAMADgAA ANoHAgAXABMAEAAoAAIARwEBCYABACEAAAAxOTQ5RTVFMTNENUYzQjQ3Qjg0OTU3MEM5MTQ0QzhF MgAjBwEDkAYA3AwAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCi6lRYtLTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAA AgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyMzE4MTY0MFot MTAyOQAAAB4ASQABAAAAJwAAAFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6X2dyb3VuZGluZyBzeXN0ZW1z AABAAE4AAFfMzOO0ygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu b3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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ODJBMUIxM0BGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AAAG 1g== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4B4.5854EAA2-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b7469ed108; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:34:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A48B238000168; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffiv-0001SJ-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nffiv-0001SA-EM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nffit-0004ua-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:17 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BKXEsE032232 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:33:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:33:15 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b7469ea0dea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan et al, Thank you. I will order what I need and report later on my findings. In the mean time I have a 6 metre stackable heavy duty aluminium pole on loan, made from 4 foot sections. I will do some whip tests tomorrow, when the weather permits. Thank you all for sourcing what I need on the optical front. I can now proceed. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC053-a9694b82f79e5e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EA82938000D06; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfrA-0004rD-Qc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfrA-0004r3-Fw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr9-0005aj-TX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:30:20 +0000 Received: from [212.54.42.143] (helo=smtp12.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr4-0007XC-KD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:14 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=[192.168.0.103]) by smtp12.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfr3-0006VM-DF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:13 +0100 Message-ID: <4B82F764.2040602@casema.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:12 +0100 From: Willem de Roode User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njfr3-0006VM-DF X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-3.899, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, CM_META_TB_NOARR 0.50) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b82f79a6bd9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 2122 -25 -1.1 0.503893 0 G7NKS IO92 17 2126 -7 -0.5 0.503868 0 G4JNT IO90 23 73s willem pa3ego From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.96]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB104-869e4b7889393c4; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:37:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5044238000201; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngo0l-00027k-5y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngo0k-00027b-S2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:22 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngo0h-00069v-T3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:36:22 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1ENaBgR012725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:06:11 -0330 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:06:11 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b7889383dea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny. Signals remain weak. It must be condtions as TX and antenna are OK. 73 Joe VO1NA On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Traces VX9MRC > Henny pa3cpm > 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > MRC 14-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b83154111; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:37:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F2B9380000AE; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:37:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhpT-0006qH-TL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhpS-0006q6-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:42 +0000 Received: from web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.125]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhpS-0006mg-Aj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:36:42 +0000 Received: (qmail 40745 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 23:36:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266881796; bh=yecFHSFFwl+X1CQC3MtCMokPixR3d/VNFgM2rZ4et4Y=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ElmQmmnLq1Ne4WRIxvmeDRzrG1PP9IxV5o2HsNZ08zlh+kdyTLNPg+60E7pv+y6GPFeOwwi96StSKcAgfA3pjBC6165J0B08DMiHldgiwHYysjLDi49tdIVK+fOgk8o93xVYUzngRNurpB2rKDJYqPWnQLVrOAx77Qf9MPioDJI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=D4zbNPkhsYQgkjS6k+uV+3DwpEyaoudj5M+y7lyo3/nKAzWOWBwMNLnW8Nukq8NKdB/b9TLCUs9sr4CM/wFP3FwpxGE6g2x4ZKVofxmZHmTpY/la3rF6N/13hnRpSC9xUYZZlKdwZNGMi5pUJS8YIyCgojFpUs6zXmCUakSfMq4=; Message-ID: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pWfW9sUVM1ngZuc53pFlArVsqKNMHNT19SKfMGnzVullC.aIUejB.i76Hh6JeP7mcUnxHDMEK2Bf6F9dX3YmFHZfPAm9wrFu3ecll.WnAR8VNoJXcIbjLzdoudnc1A9IyahAaENo1MSL73xY3rLUZdcE9KDvBV0aGk8GzW2P5E5jQCvSo1BRCU3j6.uG3UVujcAqWF_Z0JBK5nY5ciwxRQe5Of6TGqsMhncEJx59GXoyQj05oqzKVq1nN5mTOySquZjWVHiYLBE71StEtgbXaRFaNBtQIO2RaXofZSpLLTWxc7._DbCBKQO_0lS3 Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:36:35 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:36:35 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m249.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b83153f1279 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan, Rik and Stefan =A0 Thank you for the practical solutions...... I am reading up on the earth= conduction work done by John Taylor it may be possible for me to adapt so= me of his methods for this location. I like the idea of the ground electrodes I will lay out some cable and ini= tially see how much current I can make flow into the ground=A0using the 10= 0Watt amp. Then see how I get on from there. If I get a result of sorts I= will report back but silence will mean failure....:-)) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, ALAN MELIA wrote: From: ALAN MELIA Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:09 Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current fed extremely short aer= ial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tuned circuit and feed it= off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a much smaller inductance= and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth. The efficiency would= still be minute but the firework display after dark would be a wonder to= behold! :-))=A0 a later day Tesla..... Actually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the= ground. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can= be 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is als= o easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I reference= d) Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT wrote: > From: M0FMT > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 22:43 >=20 > Yep Rik > =A0 > So how do=A0I load it? > =A0 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in > the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while > the wire held out before melting.=20 > =A0 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =A0 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like > most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =A0 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on > this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I am looking > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need > help, ideas-wise.=A0 >=20 > If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels > above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in > doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly > G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 > =A0 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a > miniscule fraction of a wave length,=A0in the > conventional way is not the answer. > =A0 > So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... > anyone??=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =A0 > 2.5km Cu wire > of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the > coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > =A0 > 73, Rik=A0 > ON7YD - OR7T > =A0 >=20 >=20 > Van: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT > [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Group > =A0 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load > my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm > O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air > cored former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being > driven by about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be > getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =A0 > =A0 > =A0=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 >=20 >=20 > All we need is a wire strung between > K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. >=20 > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on > 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > --=20 > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >=A0 WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XGR/1 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. > You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the > regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the > answer as I remember > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by > International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no > we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency > things may be different > now >=A0 with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach > would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k > stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, >=A0 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other > countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy > to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF > (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. > Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something > arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an > antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what > about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which > will be on a > >> >=A0 ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the > center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth > radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance > at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are > doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good > distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it > would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short > dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments > as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, >=A0 one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> =A0 At this frequency, widely > spaced,=A0grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There > are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers > from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of > the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > >> > >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms > is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal >=A0 processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide > coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and > antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> =A0 73s > >> =A0 Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > >> > >> =A0 Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to > find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> >=A0 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a > forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of > wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna > mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF > bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above > ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. > I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad > ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, > the ODX > >> >=A0 would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little > far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already > catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB > operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> =A0 =A0 >=A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in > QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, > that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and > after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting > a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters > like > >> bandwith or >=A0 power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 > =A0ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> >=A0 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alan, Rik and Stefan
 
Thank you for the practical solutions...... I am reading up on the ea= rth conduction work done by John Taylor it may be possible for me to adapt= some of his methods for this location.
I like the idea of the ground electrodes I will lay out some cable an= d initially see how much current I can make flow into the ground usin= g the 100Watt amp. Then see how I get on from there. If I get a result of= sorts I will report back but silence will mean failure....:-))

73= es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia= @btinternet.com> wrote:

From: ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com= >
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= BR>Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:09

Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current= fed extremely short aerial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tu= ned circuit and feed it off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a= much smaller inductance and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth= . The efficiency would still be minute but the firework display after dark= would be a wonder to behold! :-))  a later day Tesla.....

Act= ually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the gr= ound. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can be= 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is also= easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I referenced= )

Alan G3NYK

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> From: M0FMT= <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk>
>= Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Monday, 22 Fe= bruary, 2010, 22:43
>
> Yep Rik
>  
> So how= do I load it?
>  
> I agree there is about 780 Watt= s being disapated in
> the coil so it would act like a one bar elect= ric fire while
> the wire held out before melting.
>  > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and
> abou= t 100 Watts of audio to try out.
>  
> I need a plan tha= t does not contain unobtainum like
> most of the RSGB designs in the= LF Handbook.
>  
> I want to use an air core transformer= if at all
> possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on
> this= reflector about this subject but I am looking
> for a pra= ctical method of loading a wire antenna and need
> help, ideas-wise.=  
>
> If I can load it with any of the power levels=
> above there are LF stations who may cooperate in
>= ; doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly
> G3xi= z or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
>  
> May be trying= to load a piece of wire, which is a
> miniscule fraction of a wave= length, in the
> conventional way is not the answer.
>=  
> So I am open to ideas (practical ones)......
>= anyone?? 
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On= Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe
> <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
>
> > From: Rik Strobbe <Ri= k.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
> Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz> To: "rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org"
> <r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Date: Monday, 22 February, 201= 0, 21:24
>
>
>
>
>
> Pete,
>= ;  
> 2.5km Cu wire
> of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345= Ohm.
> So even if the
> coil doen't get hot by the HV it cert= ainly will by the
> dissipated power.
>  
> 73, Rik=  
> ON7YD - OR7T
>  
>
>
> Van:
> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> [owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT
> [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
> Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 20= 10 19:19
> Aan: rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org
> Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=
> Hi Group
>  
> Using software to calculate what= I would need to load
> my inv "L"  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm
> O/P 800 Watt audio amp= I get :-
> A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air> cored former is 1400 turns,
> 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diamete= r wire.
> A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
> Creating an ante= nna current of about 1 amp being
> driven by about 60kVolts. Making&= nbsp;a coil that will be
> getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot.=
> Any suggestions??
>  
>  
>  &nb= sp;
>
> 73 es GL petefmt
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10= , James Cowburn
> <james= .cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin= .net>
> Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Monday, 22 Fe= bruary, 2010, 16:31
>
>
> All we need is a wire strung= between
> K2 and Everest summits and fed from
> base camp bel= ow?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>= From: owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org
> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]
> On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
> Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= BR>> Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>
> No license is requi= red in the US below 9kHz.
>
> I agree with Mal its very diffi= cult to radiate a signal on
> 137kHz, let
> alone 9kHz!
>= ; --
> 73 Warren K2ORS
>          =      
>  WD2XGJ
>       &n= bsp;        
> WD2XSH/23
>    =            
> WE2XEB/2
>  =              
> WE2XGR/1
>=
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA= <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is= not allowed.
> You probably need to
> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the
> reg= ulator at one time
> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tes= ts the
> answer as I remember
> was:-
> > Frequencies= below 10kHz are not allocated by
> International Treaty but we
&= gt; control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no
> we= will not be
> issuing any licences for that region.
> >> > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency
> thing= s may be different
> now
>  with Ofcomm. The best person= to know whether an approach
> would be
> worthwhile would be= John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k
> stuff through.
> ><= BR>> > Alan G3NYK
> >
> > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Ste= fan_Sch=E4fer
> <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> wrote:
= > >
> >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
> >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,
>  11:32> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt; Ok Roger,
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other
> countries= in
> >> europe as
> >> well? What about the UK?> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy
> to build
> >> a big
> >= ;> antenna without the problems we have on LF
> (getting the
&= gt; >> wire high above
> >> ground). So we also could tr= y big/long antennas.
> Waht do
> >> you mean with
>= ; >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something
> arround=
> >> 500W+-6dB. But
> >> the antenna? Sure, if yo= u think about building an
> antenna
> >> in the
>= >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what
> about<= BR>> >> 2x500m in a
> >> forrest, perhaps with the lo= ading coils (which
> will be on a
> >>
>  fer= rite
> >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the
>= center? That
> >> could be
> >> interesting and= easy to try. No tower, no earth
> radials,
> >> just 2 wires> >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance
> at= the
> >> feed point,
> >> that would be a first= step.
> >>
> >> This antenna will still be bad bu= t what we are
> doing -on LF
> >> it is the
> >= > same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good
> distance and
&g= t; >> make some
> >> contacts at very low frequencies,= although it
> would be much
> >> easier on
> >= > 40/80m...
> >>
> >> And so, if one would reac= h 50km with such a short
> dipole,
> >> the
> >= > fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >> Has anyone, except Horst, trie= d such experiments
> as well?
> >>
> >>
&= gt; >>
> >> With the ground wave,
>  one could= reach the whole europe, i
> >> expect. But
> >>= that are dreams...
> >>
> >>
> >>
= > >> Stefan/DK7FC
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schr= ieb Roger Lapthorn:
> >>
> >>   At this frequ= ency, widely
> spaced, grounded
> >> electrode pair= s are
> >> probably the best "antenna".  There
> ar= e
> >> references to how these work in
> >> the li= terature (for example NATO AGAARD papers
> from the
> >>= 1960s,
> >> available on the internet I believe) and on one= of
> the
> >> German ham sites
> >> (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
> >>
> >>=   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms
> is a fair
>= >> aim with modern
> >> signal
>  processing=  technology and reasonable (amateur
> >> levels) availabl= e
> >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide
> cove= rage to
> >> submarines at
> >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!)= but used enormous power and
> antennas
> >> stretching= for
> >> 100s of kms.
> >>
> >>  = ; 73s
> >>   Roger G3XBM
> >>
> >>= ;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> &nbs= p; 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
> >> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
> >&= gt;
> >>   Hello Horst,
> >>
> >>=
> >>
> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be= easy to
> find some
> >> motivated OMs
> >>= in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an
> interesting
>= ; >> field to
> >> test.
> >>
> >&g= t;
> >>
> >>
>  Yesterday i have though= t about possible antenna
> >> configurations for that
>= >> range and got the idea that one could use a
> forrest as= an
> >> antenna
> >> tower. There, you could hang= up 100s meters of
> wire, in
> >> series and in
>= >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside
> your<= BR>> >> house. Nobody
> >> will see the wire and nobo= dy will care about it.
> >>
> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizont= al loop antenna
> mounted
> >> in some
> >>= trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF
> bands and
&g= t; >> also 160m.
> >> The loop has 130m and is mounted= up to 12m above
> ground.
> >> Perfect
> >>= matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner.
> I even
>= >> tried
> >> matching on 2200m without a problem but= with bad
> ODX
> >> results, of
> >> course= . But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF,
> the ODX
> >>=
>  would be
> >> interesting...
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from= JN49IS and thus a little
> far i
> >> think ;-)
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What is your= RX antenna and have you already
> catched some
> >> commercial
= > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
> >>=
> >>
> >>
> >> 73, Stefan
> >= ;>
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: One can be su= re that there will never be SSB
> operation
> >> ;-)
= > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _________= _______________________
> >>
> >>
> >>=
> >> Von: = owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> >> im Auftrag von Hor= st St=F6cker
> >>
> >>
> >> Gesendet:= Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
> >>
> >>    
&g= t;  An: rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org
> >>
> >>
> >> Betr= eff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in
> QRSS
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hallo Stefan,=
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> there= was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287,
> that in
> >&= gt; DL the range
> >> <9kHz is free.
> >>
&g= t; >>
> >>
> >> I could not believe that so= I asked the BNetzA and
> after a
> >> while I got
&g= t; >> a letter which confirmed that.
> >>
> >&g= t;
> >>
> >> So there nothing you've got to do for= getting
> a
> >> licence. You do not
> >> need one.
> >><= BR>> >>
> >>
> >> There is no limitation= of technical parameters
> like
> >> bandwith or
>=   power.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
> >><= BR>> >>
> >>
> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30= OT
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hor= st
> >>
> >>
> _____________________________= ______________________________
> >>
> >> NEU: Mit= WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
> >>
> >> &n= bsp;   http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
> >>
> >= >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >&= gt;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
&g= t; >>
> >>
> >>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blog= spot.com/
> >>
> >>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk=
> >>
> >>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G= 3XBM
> >>
> >> G3XBM    GQRP 1678 &n= bsp;  
>  ISWL
> >> G11088
> >>> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>= >>
> >> --
> >> ---------------------------= -
> >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
> >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik= der Universit=E4t
> >> Heidelberg
> >> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
> >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
> >>= ;
> >> schaefer= @iup.uni-heidelberg.de
> >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387> >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
> >>
> >>=
>  www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
> >>
> >>=
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
= >
>
>
>
>
>


=20 --0-1212119198-1266881795=:39843-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF061-5ef64b819112c6; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 75945380000D4; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:01:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyR-0007JG-AQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHyQ-0007J7-Nm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: from web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.74]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHyO-0004e2-AR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:00:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 87741 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 20:00:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266782405; bh=K1eBs1SneIcuA1e9L3xJ/wyg7m+jcqbaaWn6EiZCWxQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qubQm9m66niEXKFxUmfPom1Q6v3CMJeppHIgASNPouAr5jzujI/b2K4evvRquItreuR7QASp+ypRmN0jusee0upVNnqRLciQOAkBs8QCt81+LTrkDj+rVj5JsXdY8UZoKJPz9pjYx7ycEq2KH036Aj15wz6jaF7uWY7Qk10Rt7c= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HH9/i9VnENVExE5V6OWR7l+Fw24mfd/vHv3vBzZGt8VPGjJAunEcKkd+UPShbjXKYCHT9dG9QJOUlT4jmGZhRJ/Bu+a8XMZstXQxwltu7zBUflOJTm3wwdsVOYpWctdn46j2307f/wpXQxFS/UZH3nCh5LStmmzeO4axPXyaeaU=; Message-ID: <288804.84111.qm@web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: p9eSRQ8VM1n1TbUs7njtEohEDVuJmKHsKNzc8az6Ehthu9ILZHUTWaNgm_keFIQlFIAMFVmr7wJtmd.bLp_M9mqmp4sxNb5CAE93lNQ41k0g.f8ghDijX7WS0D77LqS1LwghAaMEsKMOA7K8kYiq7PfFc_ISa1m9ROzLk6eEXUZQdaLrmqLQCXs1SY9bwGvEI0vaatzyprFo9Z0jIytT4YuQsx2TbVZ6JYr2CQRUZOS47rV.NmDctzSDK5ubFZR6kBAf.sAq6pHCyGIgtiZK1aLyFsy2Dv3JDg-- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63604.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:00:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:00:05 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d271.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608a4b8191103464 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stefan, and LF group: I would like to decode " HBG " before they shut down, but they are not as strong as DCF77 here. I can easily see their carrier on ARGO, but not strong enough to decode with MulitPSK Clock. 73 all :: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ --- On Sun, 2/21/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 2:44 PM > Congrats, Andy!! > What is your next goal? DCF77 radiates 30kW EIRP if i am > informed correctly... > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR > Gesendet: So 21.02.2010 18:47 > An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; > rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: LF: DCF77 QSL card >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the > correct person > to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as > accurate. > I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : >=20 > http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ >=20 > 73 to all ::: >=20 >=20 > Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA > LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) > Coordinates:=A0 N:=A0 35=BA 43' 54" - W:=A0 84=BA 3' > 16" > http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr > http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ >=20 >=20 > =A0 =A0=A0=A0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.214]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b6a07f1212; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:34:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 154F43800010D; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoiX-0007Y3-LP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoiX-0007Xu-9t for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcoiV-0003pJ-M5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:33:05 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o13NWvRm009799 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:33:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> In-Reply-To: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:32:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d64b6a07ee432d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello dear Ha/JO, Thanks for the report from JN68GN. I try to reach USA to night but I do not know if they are listening. Lets hope for the best. On WSPR I had good reports so it should be possible. 73, Albert PA0A ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "LF Group RSGB" Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 12:11 AM Subject: LF: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria > Dear all, > > PA0A ufb aural reception in eastern Bavaria, JN68GN, on 502,4 kHz around > 23.00 UTC. CW Signal up to 10 dB above noise level, in QSB still > readable. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD023-8b7a4b810b25191; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:29:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4ABF63800009C; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:29:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj93C-00062S-At for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj93B-00062J-Pq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:33 +0000 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com ([209.85.217.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj938-0001ql-Ll for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:33 +0000 Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so2578723gxk.14 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:28:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=N70mON3u5qy3O0ah8f31arApil1aK9zmxcwX46TkG+s=; b=Q00DpDBQRUzy72ejmDVuzTYQcq58HgDZNsVvRTyURt3kBKTunLwsilWlGxfia8VSvb FJ15VsM8Apiw/rjUScMFKE9XgfGIyvcHp1MXciWi13kS9rRZzvQftN5kolLEUEXgVneu XJ3OG7fIkoClR+50S4rQEPlvfLG7swU8NkZ/I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=DBo+GcI5DrpqFSlmSwKVOk8pMQP83oPMbNbTz5M+cAvFgfidza5X5KyNgRDMkOd1L+ xBGYn6ecrb8Pv3vNHszU6ydjkJirHvivzp+h+HlCtFdCa/OcCU70aD68tgLYnc8PoQP9 jzgpiGsiJjFF82Dpzkcdhg6qzsd6l6S80ewqI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.19.17 with SMTP id w17mr7333361agi.54.1266748102354; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:28:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002210228o696ce8c9y5e65332456f21c0d@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m247.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b810b2457a0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) LF today (newer edition) has the circuit for 136 and 500 modifications to SR by M0BMU >From http://m1kta-qrp.blogspot.com/2008/10/500khz.html the circuit is part way down the page. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IPGAOU6e58s/Se3eSjsMr0I/AAAAAAAAAbY/sEHuJDQluHA/s1600-h/LF_SDR.jpg G4WGT grabber I believe uses the same. 72 Dom M1KTA On 21 February 2010 07:36, Scott Tilley wrote: > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented > for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of effort > would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC091-86054b67fb0f18a; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:14:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 399433800013D; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFl5-0004u8-6C for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFl4-0004tz-Jp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:22 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcFl2-00060d-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:13:22 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoYFAMKJZ0tOki5o/2dsb2JhbACHeM9khEUEjkw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,389,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="426564790" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.46.104]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 10:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: <002101caa3f0$4f85fca0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:13:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b67fb0d43e6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable also, avoid sharp Right angle bends and Roundabouts, keep straight ahead. If= the bend is too sharp there is a tendency to go straight on and burn a hol= e in the fibre cable. Good Coax might be the best bet in the the amateur co= ntext. Apart from the broad band advantage of fibre I don't see the necessity= and extra engineering required, interface connections etc for a simple pre= amp connection on MF. G3KEV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850n= m > multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre= at 1300nm > or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What= optical > wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If= you are > using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will= be high, > the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into th= e fibre, > ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fi= bre may > be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introd= uce > attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode= . In the > 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning optical > line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. > > 73s. > Ken > M0KHW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM > Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with= the BF862 > > > Hello Chris, > > I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer= ;-) ), so > rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) > > In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than > 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (f= or > indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of= DCF39 in > the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. > > In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But > recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less= noise. > So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall nois= e, > probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of th= e RX. > The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already ord= ered > some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... > > The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10= s of > years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no problem > for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. > > The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifie= r within > the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but > this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sensitive > RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have= to worry > any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/= house to > the preamp by the cable. > > 73s, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask > Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with= the BF862 > > > > > > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > > outlook exchange (?) > > > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > > correct format now. > > > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > > already working vy fine! > > > > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the > RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, including > the diode(s)? > > > Chris Trask > N7ZWY > WDX3HLB > Senior Member IEEE > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-md10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD104-8b9f4b7a9209271; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:39:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5BFD5380001F6; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:39:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhMgf-0005Kj-8J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhMge-0005Ka-NG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:56 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhMgc-0000qP-Gv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:56 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjQFAP8fektZ8FSG/2dsb2JhbACNDAOOC3S8RYRbBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,483,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="314416058" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.240.84.134]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2010 12:37:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 500 more Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b7a92087df3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With the recent influx of PA stations, new ones appearing every day= , it might be the time to request a larger 500 band, 3 Khz is barely= enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in unattended BEACON acty= would be useful to avoid qrm. When acty increases and more countries permit 500 operations there wil= l not be enough space. Receiver selectivity also needs to be checked, the old TRF sets will= have to go. 73 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   With the recent inf= lux of PA=20 stations, new ones appearing every day, it might be the time to reques= t a larger=20 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in= =20 unattended  BEACON acty would be useful to avoid qrm.=
When acty increases and more countrie= s permit 500=20 operations there will not be enough space.
Receiver selectivity also needs to be= checked, the=20 old TRF sets will have to go.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CAAF04.CDB6CE00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA083-b5324b8699ff3ab; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:40:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9D80438000625; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:40:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfo2-0005Kx-6y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfo1-0005Ko-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkfnz-0006Ax-3G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PFd9Op021553 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:10 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:09 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:09 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2GAKP2CdTE7DMT5+KOd0EMCpsMAAF88Wi References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.152738 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC" Subject: LF: AW: Re: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55497 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4b8699d9763a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Jay, Uwe, Jean-Louis, group,=20 Jay, that sounds to be a good RX concept. You do not have a band pass filt= er in the preamp? What about the 50Hz or 60Hz ;-) lines and the levels the= y generate at your RX imput? No problem? Well decoupled by the transformer= ? Sounds easy and at once to be built...=20 On that VLF SDR, the russian transmitter at 11,904kHz is really weak to co= py :-( 73, Stefan=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von jrusgrove@comcast.n= et Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 13:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz= range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed waterf= all) and audible here a good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310 vers= ion of the Amrad e probe, battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz ra= nge? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all this ma= y be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and= the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RX= ers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB630.AC2521EC Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgoPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGgAAAEFXOiBSZTogVkxGIHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFscz8AGwgBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAQACcACQAEAEABASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAEAAnAAkA BABAAQEJgAEAIQAAAEJDMTEyMzBGN0RGNEVBNDlBQzk5MzI0MTYyMTkyQUYwACUHAQOQBgBEEgAA OAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOwhJawwtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABj PURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTUzOTA5Wi0xMTM5AAAAHgBJAAEA AAAaAAAATEY6IFJlOiBWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAEAATgAAph1DF7bKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+k vqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABv d25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVS 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mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b80109815c; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:40:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4EF1238000051; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NisMe-0002fD-7H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NisMd-0002f4-Rs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NisMb-0000I0-36 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8276513F04BBF for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:39:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:39:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+f0+7ULEQnpPmhEMtTFA+Hli7GRGP4neMxZyBnWqL6mJsmk3zwL73O nUPNt4LAUXyMrwZzQcLnnu/YLoN1lMfWOtmxCZUw2c7bnPl8UD2OuvinP7188vTd opk5MDnWK7/hp8rm4CjsqT0uJzth/GH4gwiCTqegMy8= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b8010967ad7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello, some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz we= re issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the Bundes= netzagentur has confirmed last year. Transmitter is an Pr=C3=A4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79= kHz. PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt= at 4 Ohm into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with= 20m top capacity and poor ground. Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS).= Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses. The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an city= environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a= better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city th= e ODX ;-)) surely can be improved. The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using ground= antennas vor TX, RX or both. vy73 Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =C3=BCber 1000,- =C2=BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF011-5ee24b7f00dc21; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4621B38000084; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaGx-0006gW-DT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaGw-0006gN-Ug for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:26 +0000 Received: from mail12.ssmb.com ([199.67.179.106] helo=mail.citigroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiaGu-0002mL-Lf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:26 +0000 Received: from imbhub-mw03.nam.nsroot.net ([159.17.94.190]) by imbaspam-ny06.iplex.ssmb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/SSMB_EXT/ev: 24741 $) with ESMTP id o1JLKG0S005665 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:17 GMT Received: from exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net [169.186.207.97]) by imbhub-mw03.nam.nsroot.net (Switch-3.4.1/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o1JLKE1W031647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:15 GMT Received: from exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net (169.182.192.15) by exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (169.186.207.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.393.2; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:14 +0000 Received: from exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.219.14]) by exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net ([169.182.192.15]) with mapi; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:13 +0000 From: "Scholz, Marco " To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:20:12 +0000 Thread-Topic: Special evening Station SN0JH Thread-Index: AcqxowDth/re6H29TzCHOQelIs9M+QABfRxw Message-ID: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A241E@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> References: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> In-Reply-To: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB x-wiganss: 01000000010017exlnht02.eur.nsroot.net ID0044<16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A241E@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 172.27.136.25 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b7f00da6c60 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.31]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI042-eac34b71be2d2b1; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:57:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0FCFC3800056A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NewBK-0004ot-HH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NewBJ-0004ok-V8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:33 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NewBF-0004AN-8A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:33 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBFA7B804D for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7885FF3862 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:55:16 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:53:04 +0100 Thread-Topic: PA matching oddity Thread-Index: Acqpq3geGDY/MJO6SRq0dAwf78TjNAAFgZM7 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411f4b71be2a027d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideband%= 20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transformers us= ed on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW out, an= d made up from 8 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It= runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. The modules were part of= an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(i= sh) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at input and output. Wh= ich is where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal.= .. The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs seen= before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary win= ding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as they pass= through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot en= d and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the third turn consist= ing just the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (tw= o of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary= made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a con= nection at the far end. A diagram can be seen at http://www.g4jnt.com/p= amatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will presen= t a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this sh= ould result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 900 Watts. = (Sanity check, a single ended design at half the Rload =3D (50^2)/ 2= / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation). Which is= not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125 ohms,= Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expec= t to see on a real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really the 1:3= turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings= could have have become an auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio= ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be higher.= But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg= http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it delive= red nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply= volts down to 17V. Now, plugging these values into the matching equation= 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible, - but I was seeing more= power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW ? Andy www.g4jnt.com --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,<= /font>
 
have a look here :
 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@= googlemail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transforme= rs used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?
 
I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over= 1kW out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,  RFPP53 types, roughly equivale= nt to MRF140.  It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. = ; The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(ish) with the norm= al ferrite matching transformers at input and output.  Which is where= I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal...
 
The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.  Th= e secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened= as they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot end and joined to the two ends of= the secondary, with the third turn consisting just the inner conduct= or with no braid over it.    All three turns (two of coax= plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a con= nection at the far end.    A diagram can be seen at http://www.= g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif  
 
Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...
the impedances don't work out properly...
 
Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.   = From a 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/= 5.56 =3D 900 Watts.    (Sanity check,  a single ended= design at half the Rload =3D   (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- no= rmal push pull PA calculation).   Which is not 1kW and is only= an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway.
 
BUT,   if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would= be 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of= value I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.
 
Has anyone met that winding configuration  before?  = Is it really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there= some way the windings could have have become an auto-transformer and = ;be giving  1:4 turns ratio ?
If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hig= her.  But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. 
 
 
On a quick test on the module today, running from a  10A su= pply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and drag= ging the supply volts down to 17V.  Now, plugging these values into= the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible,  - but I was seeing more power.   =
 ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT= HOW ?
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33EICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF022-5ee74b7485d8371; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 951D2380002CE; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:33:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhal-0002Mn-1Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhak-0002Me-JE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:58 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhah-0005kq-0E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:58 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6C7111C0008F for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5F42D1C000A9 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 02FA01C0009F for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:48 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211223249123.02FA01C0009F@mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:32:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b7485d52089 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Its just a case of the que's and cal's : cw is a tech-nique and= wspr is tech-nical still tech ! Personally I think it should of been named ICARUS=20 G ..=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: Well done Dom Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!!=20 73 es GL petefmt=20 --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines = wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV=20 To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02=20 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as pos= sible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross= band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA =20 --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Its just a case of the  que's an= d cal's =20 :  cw is a  tech-nique&nb= sp; and =20 wspr is tech-nical  still tech !
 
Personally  I think it  sho= uld of been=20 named ICARUS
 
G ..

Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: LF: New NoV

CW good, WSPR good too     :-))
=
73s=20 Roger G3XBM


On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk&g= t; wrote:
Well done Dom
 
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good  ......... WSPR= =20 BAD!! 

73 es GL petefmt=20


--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines= <dominic.baines@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com>
Subject: LF:=20 New NoV=20

To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date:=20 Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02=20


Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
= Hope to=20 have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.Thanks=20 for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band=20 qso
perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will fo= cus on CW=20 initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA

=



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM= =20    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088


------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01CAAB6A.1D9D6DA0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-mf08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF082-8bf64b6fd41828a; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:06:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 350C9380000D0; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:06:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NePYI-00083G-Uj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NePYI-000837-KL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from outbound03.telus.net ([199.185.220.222]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NePYG-0007yf-61 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:05:06 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100208090500.GVUY18427.priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:05:00 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id AA7F91C26FE3AF04 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:04:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6FD3BB.9090703@telus.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:04:59 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA into the west coast... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4b6fd41714af X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I stand corrected it appears to be XKO... Scott Tilley wrote: > Fairly decent signal across the NA continent tonight. First time I > have ever seen V01NA. > > Good work Joe! > > 73 Scott > VE7TIL > http://www3.telus.net/sthed/argo/ > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC054-a96a4b7a6e7d2b5; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:07:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3662C3800012F; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhKJx-00052h-0u for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhKJw-00052Y-LN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:20 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhKJu-0008Ch-Lx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:06:20 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXX0095TIQ9S3@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:10 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:06:09 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0234BDA5D8FC4EBA920DF7B3C4B2840C@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: E-mail met bijlage (attachment): VX9MRC 16-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55086 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b7a6e786afc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q)" --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF nice capture VX9MRC 507.77khz, henny pa3cpm best 73s to All........... Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 16-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
nice capture VX9MRC 507.77khz,
henny pa3cpm
best 73s to All...........
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 16-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_deYqi3huVy7VNNOpmpX54Q)-- --Boundary_(ID_imJJWysIQRzHqCjqOZ0wHQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 16-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 16-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABMA0EDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAAFBwgG/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHkgAz0WajTJOFExYSYaWAMHKWqt13R imyDUsTvWDgZZk9IIeBRqWKpDNARRlOGA6LGhdLpHEOVtBkBA5GlEmwqZEmIgYDIbGTXIamr uXLehVBsSw2KxOZZm7BTq+U4wmorMYqiRhoBjayLCJmgoGWA+qzJEIsABcqAmJN0U4zcQwJE qYZzkTOaPEwWUjDF5j1ja1dciLRIYJZjxrFo33aEXogonly7T0jnvQMnrtkjdwanNzgeP0jP YXaf0GprSox9snWZb2UvUV7lu3qo+kzmPmXupaQYjlSyMtOqE/TM5b+XjbVtopHuNWUkN9qh 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(Exim 4.14) id 1NdRzU-0005zA-L2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRzU-0005z1-9N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRzS-0004pk-1j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:29:12 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o15HT8er023251 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:29:09 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:09 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:28:02 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEB@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEB@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Who is transmitting "C" on 137.776kHz?? Thread-Index: AcqmYLQ2sPv6lOMTQayYSQ6FUCIw+QAJ922V References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.5.171221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B" Subject: LF: Who is transmitting "C" on 137.776kHz?? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b6c55bb4f55 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgkRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy 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LmdpZgADABQ3BAAAADMr ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA688.B952AE6B-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.83]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC061-86024b6c52331f7; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:15:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C0600380003E8; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:15:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRl4-0005nP-Fh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRl4-0005nG-5W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRl2-0004gZ-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:14:18 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o15HE8m7001560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:44:08 -0330 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:44:08 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40534b6c5231349e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Thank-you for the reports and images. 73 Joe On Thu, 4 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > capture vx9mrc 507.77khz > henny cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 04-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b6880c03a8; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:45:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9E07A38002E1A; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcOd1-000780-OM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcOd1-00077r-CQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from mbox2.netikka.net ([213.250.81.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcOd0-0001gW-Bk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:41:39 +0000 Received: from hupu.netikka.net (hupu [172.16.83.91]) by mbox2-feedback.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DC4F4080E2 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from imp1.netikka.net (imp1.netikka.net [213.250.85.154]) by hupu.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3564B004B for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by imp1.netikka.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67795495BD1 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 (EET) Received: from 558602b6.adsl.multi.fi (558602b6.adsl.multi.fi [85.134.2.182]) by imp.netikka.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 Message-ID: <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:41:32 +0200 From: Paul-Henrik To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 85.134.2.182 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6880467a3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear Mal. Send your mails on this subject to all "OFCOM's" in EU instead. One mail= every day to each country would give them something to think about. Personally I have spent countless hours writing up agendas, papers and e-m= ails to our telecom authority to somehow get OH on 500kHz. Plus some unpaid off= days from work to see the authority in person. Plus paid the tickets myself everytime to get there (400km or so one-way). Get up early, home late. For= two years now, and in vein. Not giving up though. I'm sure the same process is taking place elsewhere in EU as well. People working hard on their own time to convince their authorities it is time fo= r a change and that the current RR frequency table does not reflect the curren= t situation on/around 500kHz. The hams in EU are progressive but penetrating a brick wall with a toothpi= ck takes it's time. BR Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ Quoting mal hamilton : > Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where= are > the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! > I thought EU was progressive !! > G3KEV > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI071-eace4b7e4f1b1e9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:43:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 98B873800009A; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:43:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiOQX-0004j9-83 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiOQW-0004j0-Sh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:32 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiOQS-0006Bs-Tu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:41:32 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY2007KUYSJSN@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:41:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:41:03 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 19-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_YyP62XH1PjkNEpAqh9WjYA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55228 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b7e4f194c1b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_YyP62XH1PjkNEpAqh9WjYA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ)" --Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi All, capture XKO Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 19-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_WyovwPQw8ITd1aSCaubyDQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi All,
capture XKO
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 19-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD084-8b934b83a986a1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:10:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 914EB3800010A; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrhg-0000F6-1D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrhf-0000Er-Cb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:19 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njrhd-0001Tq-BM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:09:19 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA00ILSHJAKC@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:07 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <676D27A23CF440A5A6070F10F2501563@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b83a9843897 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg)" --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_onuwN2nEc/yRzMAca9jbhg)-- --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 23-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 23-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABIAv8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQQDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHlVObei4xLCIMWqtbiSM8pG5IUNMVp sL5HGl2KsJ5obSnnD2Z0ttXYozO1Rm2dFAVNOGTSneErU7FWxpVZyHh1SGpMvU2spBUTbKMQ l5HaqENvQxEAQYJ3ZBmjAynFy6d21GE5JkrSpqwE+7q2hi53F7EBRtvjijs8NIlF4ZkJ2BNH BKLqBHTTxEbNuMz04KtNQRoEALSJmCJMNCLA1OIyRs650bnfReBjM+TheS67rvHiUckHPEBt LOTWCPnce6oXs5rzt6m56/BjY5TJkaqTZoya2O1W6YIwTwSPk7M3ry2gLvXBXM1WeqrIbLzP 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imPAlEjsxKu3cJlnwRLWOKwvUO6vyXctP0iZEcEEAA86zKGUmCajtLRbyUQNZqF7o2CKWSu4 xYJ1FXvDTZ6qXfaETCfsSWuMrt8MT/BbzB0Ib6ogu86xFPlDEoKruuXcK9KtuVhZ7LheEzBM wAuoJ8jixhwVFVZ5Iucg+X+pr/eS4HbimNGBnaIstbUawjU5l2w9lpKtzugy1rugNUAaxnPC xMS2yvlLtmstQDgfaZlt3M5RKRb8mZK7LgD20P8AUo79rnjCKysx45lpg/uksSwMO24Fi/mI p7TEtkly0gqHFPMsC6asU6LNhtYQiZIsGWM3qcs0xSBmg0sIlR0esUSxiOFjmf/Z --Boundary_(ID_f7/WlLAus/opZMouAQAhnQ)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.76]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI014-eab94b7c49cc330; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:55:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EC9B338000106; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhpyj-0000AL-Mc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhpyj-0000AC-Bj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from mx75.mail.ru ([94.100.176.90]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhpyh-0002bU-1Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:54:33 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=37288 helo=EFREMOV) by mx75.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nhpya-000IhG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:54:24 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:54:07 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 0.501 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604c4b7c49ca7376 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Willem, Stopped? 73 Andrey > Hello lf > > Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA013-b4f14b75ae4e6c; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:38:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6641B38000378; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:38:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng1Kq-00056E-BQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng1Kp-000565-Gs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:51 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng1Km-0004le-4n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:51 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so4237742pzk.30 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=eRrcEtv+chTi+z/XM2XVU/JF9/Zc9GPUslcPst4KNuU=; b=p067+9V3sdJc4BgxVl5gQZHrTvM+BUIyka8EV5BLJQjbNmKw353iLQQz830tNw4vve rbR7qhvjsepSPXOHKidVruGDCLlpI7EX5R5GzcNRqAlolHDFvrpYvrk0LOtLw4tmn5W3 cw/Y74WAqQKrNrkG05LA0AmNfRAiuVEgVNlyo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=F1EPd2gn37wY726aABpnS3wz5jLlVqTFDW/B66LBIyDv9v/l3HUogFVaXK5ruj8r2d V2VyiR4k74gls+o5+jubkaSchYtgTpYcmmMvGUv8mN3v/Ha+ol6s3dXRnNyy91x/aYwY Yt99v/K1VBSmGKSegvm0wVR4cS+X479oMJZjE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.4.9 with SMTP id g9mr1249289rvi.31.1266003459363; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:37:39 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 24a6e7e6509d6979 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d308.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b75ae4c4e72 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: > A bozo I will be!! > > > > ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:07 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Roger, Jim, > > > > I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while= in > monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to > do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sig= n in > the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is wh= ich > Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. > > > > I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was= most > enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way= (QSO) > mode. > > > > You can find it at :- > > > > http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm > > > > Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: > > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > --000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

We are all "Bozo's" at some point in= time :-))

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again= tonight ?

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>= wrote:

A bozo I will be= !!

=A0

=A0

=A0

Roger, Jim,

=A0

I find it slightly different to Jim's descript= ion in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you= need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place= the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know= then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

=A0

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Gui= de to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to= JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

=A0

You can find it at :-

=A0

=A0

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@g= mail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next= week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

=A0

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@vir= gin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT7 pr= ogramme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you have ca= llsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the= right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5<= /span>

=A0

If the sending= station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is message 6<= /span>

=A0

A lot quicker th= an QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

=A0


--000e0cd0eaea7ad4f0047f6c66fe-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF024-8bd44b82aca0113; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1954638000099; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjarT-00020h-5L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjarS-00020Y-M4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:18 +0000 Received: from web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.127]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjarQ-0002s2-Fz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 30894 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266855010; bh=yIJVTSJtgfEQmLGNRiSGkBtzvMK6JC77m676YEl95hY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lkCNED5nBrJ+kYWjLpl5liyc7Yaheeqv73DAwaiNIUHBVju6vfb6tZZOkoeUqNTxzCq6dGLZ/FiG1DNL81GE0uBQrM85l53wDRPMCpXxhh7vthJUvVnoc/UmbugDP4OxdF4G8PQiLMXnICuUGpQIKtqZFFGZZoanf5jVU08nFr0= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Mh9x1qxUZf4kCNEWPzFfZgtqdivAbZOQzXoyBBCvXakImjpyLxRLJiTLoFJuRRSPp0cGHLnxwltQIBNBQAM2pR/jBnRZWvYKabBSdUB5SxvMBFn0ebxTHbxQX5LuGej8w4IjOIxlKTT6e9J8zhdQDKQ9JWiy7nMsOD20OZr+CZg=; Message-ID: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: gTy_cBMVM1lUZ.p4iYycURCy_gSKYrAdbV_ov1jF3INs_iE7DYI84NsqhsgIw6diX5yMUc4BRTG1PmqiV_.YuLDvqnzh7lvQ5LVBxkR9YR18WDp4FUHuBFUW0FGSYuWG7AQfbTMviHW9u_bl.OnDIlj.qyzZWCCCfa84uwAv2789cEVwQ6oCSdDAUD3.vY5DnvTGtDr2suF9Tkxq1McG6NflRlrD3wkl6LK8Xmg4YFkejpz0iBugs_6uVJsQBKEvC15bIU9zLbdbbOhlD_zbCG8uoccpT9pBOGVFaUemOj9_OoIwdeh9poGwIc9hr8P9q3BxJpX16BKckL_sdzQ4JTmw Received: from [213.122.54.169] by web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:10:10 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d252.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b82ac9b036c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to= contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time= maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remembe= r was:- Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region. I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different= now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wor= thwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > Ok Roger,=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > europe as > well? What about the UK? >=20 >=20 >=20 > If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > a big > antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > wire high above > ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > you mean with > amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > 500W+-6dB. But > the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > in the > garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > 2x500m in a > forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > ferrite > toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > could be > interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > just 2 wires > hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > feed point, > that would be a first step.=20 >=20 > This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > it is the > same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > make some > contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > easier on > 40/80m... >=20 > And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > the > fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >=20 >=20 >=20 > With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > expect. But > that are dreams... >=20 >=20 >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >=20 > At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded > electrode pairs are > probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are > references to how these work in > the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > 1960s, > available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > German ham sites > (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > =A0 > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > aim with modern > signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > levels) available > power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > submarines at > 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > stretching for > 100s of kms. > =A0 > 73s > Roger G3XBM > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =A0 > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >=20 > Hello Horst, >=20 > =20 >=20 > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > motivated OMs > in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > field to > test. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > configurations for that > range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > antenna > tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > series and in > parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > house. Nobody > will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >=20 > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > in some > trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > also 160m. > The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > Perfect > matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > tried > matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > results, of > course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > would be > interesting... >=20 > =20 >=20 > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > think ;-) >=20 > =20 >=20 > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > commercial > VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >=20 > =20 >=20 > 73, Stefan >=20 > =20 >=20 > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > ;-) >=20 > =20 >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > =20 >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >=20 > =20 > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >=20 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >=20 > =20 > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hallo Stefan, >=20 > =20 >=20 > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > DL the range > <9kHz is free. >=20 > =20 >=20 > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > while I got > a letter which confirmed that. >=20 > =20 >=20 > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > licence. You do not > need one. >=20 > =20 >=20 > There is no limitation of technical parameters like > bandwith or power. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >=20 > =20 >=20 > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >=20 > =20 >=20 > Horst >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ >=20 > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >=20 > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >=20 > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >=20 > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >=20 > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL > G11088 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > ---------------------------- > Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > Heidelberg > Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >=20 > schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >=20 > www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > =20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.31]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI042-eac34b866f37e1; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:38:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5C03C38000121; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:38:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkcy7-0003bO-Rs for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkcy7-0003bF-GV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkcy5-0004UM-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:27 +0000 Received: from omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.88]) by qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mBH91d00C1uE5Es56CdJjF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:37:18 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta16.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mCfr1d0082DDHkk3cCfr9T; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:39:52 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01cab617$43e9f6b0$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:37:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411f4b866f36046e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan >Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10k= Hz range? The Alpha stations on 11.9, 12.7 and 14.9 kHz are visible (cw speed wa= terfall) and audible here a=20 good percentage of the time. Receiving setup is 1 meter e probe (J310= version of the Amrad e probe,=20 battery powered and transformer decoupled) to a Perseus SDR receiver. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed=20 in the web but in times where these transmitters are shut down all thi= s may be already old stuff.=20 Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency= and the SNR he is achieving?=20 There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps=20 it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase th= e RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the=20 transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF042-5eef4b86980137e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:32:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F1C9F3800053C; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfg0-00056n-KJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfg0-00056e-9U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkffy-00064J-Am for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:30:56 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5A17B8117 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F2B31E702 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:32 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.co m> References: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225152930.61F2B31E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8697ef5e34 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I guess they have their own interpretation of VLF, based on the calls i see it's 137kHz / 504kHz 73, Rik At 16:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: >According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there >is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: > >http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map > >Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? > >-- >73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC054-a96a4b839a8666; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:06:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 530CB38000091; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njqhf-0008Kg-0a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njqhe-0008KX-Ll for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:14 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njqhc-0000vr-EB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:05:14 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N95stk009777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N95s5H009774 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:05:54 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b839a8312ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Those looking at vlf transmission should look at cave radio electronics, tens of kHz are used for communication and several kHz for beaconing. The antenna limitations aremuch greater than for radioamateur use. Brian Pease has a nice site: http://radiolocation.tripod.com/ He uses a 4kHz beacon with a very small antenna to cover several hundred meters via rock. The DQ receiver design is also worth a look. VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj08.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.92]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b6db4d3212; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:28:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E21FC38000090; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdpNR-0005cB-IG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdpNR-0005c2-6V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdpNO-0005vK-PT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:27:29 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E74651C00086 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D93781C0008E for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.41.48]) by mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id A03261C00086 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:27:20 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100206182720656.A03261C00086@mwinf3531.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:27:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100206-1, 06/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_HAS_SPACES=0.651,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b04b6db4d140eb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TA= KE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB=20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND=20 WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 = TILL > LATER =20 ALSO RX ON 3566 CW =20 REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME =20 TNX - G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; 1600=20 HRS    ALSO   X BAND  3566  = RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<  TO  DAY SAT= 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; =20 TX/RX  500  ALSO   RX 3566 +/-  QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE  OPERATIONAL  = FROM=20 ROUND   1600 HRS GMT  >  1800  ... 1900&nb= sp; =20 TILL > LATER 
ALSO   RX ON 3566  CW&= nbsp; =20
 
REPORTS  / CALLS  WELCOME&n= bsp; =20
 
TNX - G ..


------=_NextPart_000_004E_01CAA759.FEBB82F0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b67f746379; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:58:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDC303800008C; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFVZ-0004lT-Dd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcFVZ-0004lK-1O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcFVW-0005sQ-SO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:57:21 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEALuFZ0tOki5o/2dsb2JhbACBbI1DyBOERQQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,389,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295854966" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.46.104]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 09:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b67f7435287 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Lubnos That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in Beacon mode causing= qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode. 73 mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:13 PM Subject: LF: 500kHz Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Lubnos
That was normal CW from me. The other stn was= in Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode.
73 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Monday, February 01, 20= 10 8:13=20 PM
Subject: LF: 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA3EE.11963100-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.11]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA054-86654b784a6421a; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:09:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFBF538000196; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngjot-0001mO-Fm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngjos-0001mF-Vv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:50 +0000 Received: from web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.73]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngjop-000530-8E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:07:50 +0000 Received: (qmail 14814 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2010 19:07:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266174460; bh=ARg/9fz0zfofFCcV8Rn1bkXygrUlXJ2nKTvCtMs9eAg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hWKWnthLO/wwr6ll79jDtJ1NpV4Rbz8YZNLUNuGBuHrKK9jUDwbuies8qvcD7qGMrEWaY0CMiPeoqlFhjLO8774OKCQSIb4M1MAXbfyX0xtvvD1MCYMvSfM1mZ2AcaNOdSdtvwejIf/Tsa8PrBTF3tvArM9epR2obuZbCt+L3fw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GSyK6mL+eh6pAFu41IeN5K0Wl4vt5FVP4DYEqNILPOuNtChB9TGUBFyVXNahsfB7CksAxhgcv+4uomucz3/Gmw+5hJzCVBMpDRO3y1FWzrkxWs5L9JqdqMOD5Vq2YZ/63NGTZ5rOD5wN4Mtk1g9gUG39+imGTFT3twkkM8px39w=; Message-ID: <123596.14653.qm@web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: niEOM7YVM1lZaOEskqkpSB32DAjN.cUYMXhwDLSkQLSS9.fvdCAAFMej4JPoDwLpyXR_MMHYkPHSHTwnx8LeHdSc.btZkI0w0s5gAgz9a3LpHvBc_DeGiE9Nh7Qdo6iIHJFj85Mqw6blyHO3zRSO89NCmKYkUkP82kbJWwXb.St5JIm5R49.MRQ7KlJtObFPo324HgpUprNrIFWGJj6.As5VnHh70V2cNuwkV4BBnlVqKyI8RTwVxX5efAzakl6kynDF Received: from [98.86.4.113] by web63603.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:07:39 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: I'm proud of this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d224.1 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400b4b784a625222 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thank you Stefan; your information is most useful. > Hey Andy! > =20 > Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna > for DCF77? > =20 > Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC Station details: Antenna: 160 meter windom, and 80 meter dipole in " X " configuration connected to one coax feedline. In the shack, feedline is shorted, and the antenna is used as a very short vertical with top-hat loading. The antenna is run thru about 2 Milli-Henries Inductance, with an air variable connected from the feedline to ground, forming a simple LC tuning network. Receiver: A Kenwood TS450S using dual 500Hz filters, audio output into a Vectronics Active audio filter with 80Hz bandwidth. The audio filter feeds the PC soundcard. I use software DSP filtering at 20Hz bandwidth for very weak signals. No LF pre-amps 73 to all, and good radio-ing to you ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ --- On Sun, 2/14/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > Hey Andy! > =20 > Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna > for DCF77? > =20 > In the web i have found that page: http://www.ptb.de/de/org/4/44/442/ind= ex.htm#Kontakt > There you can find the adress of the working group leader > of DCF77. Maybe it is not the perfect adress but it one that > has to do with DCF77. If you give him i technical > description (surely they all can read it in english) and the > report and ask for a confirmation oer perhaps even a QSL, > you probably will get an answer... > =20 > Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC033-a8dd4b6fbeed10c; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:36:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CEBC5380001EF; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:36:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeO99-0007tQ-JF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeO99-0007tH-9E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([204.209.205.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeO96-0007c6-CL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:35:03 +0000 Received: from edmwaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edmwes71.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20100208073456.RMTQ13077.priv-edmwes71.telusplanet.net@edmwaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:34:56 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edmwaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id E3331276A3D02F23 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:34:56 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6FBE9F.50208@telus.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:34:55 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: VO1NA into the west coast... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6fbeeb72d4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Fairly decent signal across the NA continent tonight. First time I have ever seen V01NA. Good work Joe! 73 Scott VE7TIL http://www3.telus.net/sthed/argo/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.148]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI071-eace4b6d5af0e9; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:05:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F57A38000224; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjNa-0003oO-1c for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjNZ-0003oE-KU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:13 +0000 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdjNX-00034v-0J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:03:13 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16C2jhQ004255 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:02:45 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c07.7691f721 (37084) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229070163.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.70.163]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB066-90dc4b6d5a6229c; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:02:43 -0500 Message-ID: <15DE4535B55145ADBD93747022CF6A2F@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:02:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAA72C.A649BB50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40944b6d5aee2687 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Nicolas, LF, the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last nigh= t (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WP= F, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: F4DTL@aol.com=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber= ) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CAA72C.A649BB50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Nicolas, LF,
 
the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last= night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF,= and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 06,= 2010 2:11=20 AM
Subject: LF: PW beacon ???

Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's=20 grabber)
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Miniwhip
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(mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI043-eac44b8503fa149; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:48:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B9C6D380000B3; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEm8-0004zQ-0p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEm7-0004zH-Mh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:27 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml101.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEm5-0002oz-10 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:47:27 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML101.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:47:19 +0100 Message-ID: From: "henny van elst" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:47:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2010 10:47:19.0652 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCF91240:01CAB53E] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: RN3AGC Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b8503f76a52 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey, my signal was on your grabber,it was only 25 watt, best 73s henny pa3cpm ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:54 PM Subject: LF: Re: 0.501 > Hello Willem, > Stopped? > > 73 Andrey > > >> Hello lf >> >> Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2693 - Release Date: 02/17/10 07:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE054-5eb54b6a035a265; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:14:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB51B38000172; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoOL-0007Nv-DW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcoOK-0007Nm-U9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:12 +0000 Received: from mailout06.t-online.de ([194.25.134.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcoOI-0003fL-9P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:12:12 +0000 Received: from fwd06.aul.t-online.de (fwd06.aul.t-online.de ) by mailout06.t-online.de with smtp id 1NcoOH-0000BE-7Y; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:12:09 +0100 Received: from [192.168.2.32] (TEbeJeZFQhP6U+l+XT5l+Y4hymLbiKB-6uaA8U3OYV4zae0FZn4DdFKoMyVK9ZAgqh@[93.211.81.160]) by fwd06.t-online.de with esmtp id 1NcoO5-1vgwrY0; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:11:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de To: "LF Group RSGB" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 6.08.0003 Date: 03 Feb 2010 23:11 GMT Message-ID: <1NcoO5-1vgwrY0@fwd06.t-online.de> X-ID: TEbeJeZFQhP6U+l+XT5l+Y4hymLbiKB-6uaA8U3OYV4zae0FZn4DdFKoMyVK9ZAgqh X-TOI-MSGID: c67e61f8-edce-4fe9-bcef-69660cb58bef X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: PA0A ufb signal in eastern Bavaria Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b6a035618bd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, PA0A ufb aural reception in eastern Bavaria, JN68GN, on 502,4 kHz around 23.00 UTC. CW Signal up to 10 dB above noise level, in QSB still readable. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.210]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI072-eacf4b84094e32a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:58:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 67A0A3800009C; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njy5A-0002gb-RD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njy5A-0002gS-Fq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njy58-0005WZ-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:58:00 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EADCYg0tcGOT+/2dsb2JhbACNDwONenO9ZoRsBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,527,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="440651979" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.228.254]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 16:57:52 +0000 Message-ID: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:57:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: TOY SALE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d24b84094c7a8e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appliance Operator TOY for sale. Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20 kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sende= r/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fumble about with= a suitable antenna. mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Appliance Operator TOY for sale.
Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz -= 20 kHz would do=20 nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp,= then fumble=20 about with a suitable antenna.
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01CAB4A9.54CE0120-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b74836518a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A5CB838000229; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhQb-00029j-6Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhQa-00029a-Lq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhQX-0005d9-TA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so31570bwz.30 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=t40e5uuZemckSNLwF09NkVh5SmWoJdgYXCbeRXdwXS4=; b=xfuSocLGprMV7Th9zPA1IP1bc8x+/uGASPeB+DoCqoJ/YwIdxV3Evb1ajwBoeFDtqC yfut/9orXY0N1+PIOX8NEuRl0ZClQlYsek/6vIqih4au/lQJtH7p3UwdlBqAVukdqdF/ f+8mylD8alNWW5VKmgXBTYbei1PHr7Pkq5tVE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Ht0DdTGTlGgli3wveo1gZRcajvaYtLqK3XWPKNonJU9+q/QYiL9BLQw69Z6uBsgk04 eGq9FFCwd9dcEpNZAzhtt19fzYmuB21qthSHIg/0uJBOL9wBboXkcto2cpxd88XzZD/W mybol2++uNhhst7twNTSrnhiCR8B2gsE8IiQw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.212 with SMTP id m20mr328067bkd.79.1265926939015; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:22:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:22:18 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m288.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b7483633d56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: > Well done Dom > > Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!! > > 73 es GL petefmt > > > --- On *Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines * wrote: > > > From: Dominic Baines > Subject: LF: New NoV > > To: "rsgb lf group" > Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 > > > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CW good, WSPR good too=A0=A0=A0=A0 :-))

73s Roger G3XBM


=
On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well done Dom
=A0
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good=A0 .........=A0WSPR BAD!!=A0

73= es GL petefmt


--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Ba= ines <= dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <<= a href=3D"mailto:dominic.baines@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dominic.baine= s@gmail.com>
Subject: LF: New NoV

To: "rsgb lf group&qu= ot; <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Thursday, 11 February,= 2010, 15:02


Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
Hope to have= my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.
Thanks for all= those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso
perhaps we can= manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA





--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555b4ce82fbc3047f5a9553-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.141]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b86992b1b4; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:37:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2005338000134; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:36:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfkr-0005ER-2L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkfkq-0005EH-Mq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:56 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkfko-00067u-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:56 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1059378qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0agu4v25ZWgLBDPZN0vU53GBfOQo2p7zlVcEzztOfq0=; b=vfML0y6PG+zPMBQPjBYlSP1mKwsCcJS10zx2OSl2DBbQRigBcd0ghvEUa5zBUMEPKF 8q2X0W/d2bNv5HeDKA6nOF9zAc2BcKt4QITXTUidj976V48rN4eWkNx3VlD197AnUBx/ bQjUfCECQFCYujEHFwgSjRjCsWOgVSFJUr72k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Y8Tw728syuw/tpGLRQCiyvh6q4C4NB2kbzqKAHfTZjxjdtNz0gbmBobPW20hosz8t/ Yjsu2H20F/XUlqMyD0ov8No/ba6W9bXyFryuRssz5whjzoiDWAbIsC8/lfyHEXyaR4/h 6CqZ66kFdmTPkO7t8iukUfaLVkpV6ZQs+MXnQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.83.82 with SMTP id e18mr1024184qal.65.1267112148587; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> References: <57a24ca71002250714q51853373s647cf25f369f7916@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002250735t1b672097s132925a11e4db172@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: WSPR on VLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d4b86990f007c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) After digging further into the WSPRNET map, I only saw 500kHz and one 137kHz station plotted. Apparently the organizers of WSPRNET do not know the difference between VLF, LF, and MF ! - 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Warren Ziegler wrote: > According to the pull down band menu on WSPRNET propagation map there > is WSPR activity on VLF/LF: > > http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map > > Vlf is below 30kHz, perhaps they are on 9kHz? > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1 > > - From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi06.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.164]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b83f3cadd; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 053C4380003FD; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwe7-0001VA-FU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwe6-0001V1-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:58 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwe4-0004Kb-H0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:58 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223152536.TRYO4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:36 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwdj-0003WG-Bo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:36 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <029701cab49c$719d1be0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0l8TmcCJl1QA+Q2WxmpAmiF4HIgAAEgSw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=3Whqp61UHaEBF354uSQA:9 a=Kd1BtBMwOOAaR0GCXJgA:7 a=tcMSWY7f5SVbCH_-ulLAodsPj6kA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=7UPHMyF-XMXP1rSS:21 a=1zNcVJecHFff5kuv:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=h6swgvvPOmHAelOcH4IA:9 a=2ZZCUSFrcc0v05AowksA:7 a=iUWAghsbscoxFgV7_pba-k6UGxMA:4 a=RsJYWXwGnHMMRpPk:21 a=35QYoLlRM9NrYv8w:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039400cdece4b83f3c70328 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mal See annotations below for my comments and observations. Thanks for CW QSO on Sunday too With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 14:50 To: rsgb Subject: LF: DATA Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Yes indeed. I worked some good Dx last week during half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. Lots of strong US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO but its busy What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. I think AMTOR, Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really routine QSO modes in general but more service modes. RTTY remains popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine. (Only my opinion) Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong. I see that there are still many users of all modes including AM on topband, We have a thriving top band AM net in Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data. They are or at least RTTY is but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, Hardly fly by night Mal, if you visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly fly by night. JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500. tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Probably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday after all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of difference between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio! Also as you know with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can't hear Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. Obviously? To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ. There's more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up. Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances (me included and I'm a QRP newbie!). If one was to look at the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my guess that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, Most of the MF ops I know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be referring to me in which case n=1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!! :-) and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! They said that about T/A on 73KHz, walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinning jenny! Mal, put that clog down or you'll get transported to the colonies If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. I for one am looking into it, and I indeed have the appliances for Rx. Your observations ? there you have them. None of which are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, " I disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your right to say it" (or at least words to that effect!) de G3KEV 73s de G7NKS (Jim) ------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mal

 

See annotations= below for my comments and observations.

 

Thanks for CW= QSO on Sunday too

With best regards=

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 =

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of m= al hamilton<= /st1:City>
Sent: 23 February 2010= 14:50
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: DATA

 

Generally band condx vy good at present= from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs.   &= nbsp;Yes indeed.  I worked some good Dx last week during half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps th= e old soleil is firing up again

 

Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, som= e strong USA stns. Lots of strong US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests.  G3XIZ is= running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO but its busy

 

 

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor= , Pactor and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.   I think AMTOR, Packe= t and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really routine QSO modes in general but more= service modes.  RTTY remains popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly= and works fine.  (Only my opinion)

 

Observations indicate that data mode ac= ty does not last long, the novelty wares= (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going st= rong.  I see that= there are still many users of all modes including AM on topband,  We have a thriving top band= AM net in Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.  &nb= sp; 

 

 

Some will argue that cw and rtty are da= ta.  They are or at= least RTTY is

 

 but I am referring to the fly by= night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,   Hardly fly by night Mal, if you visit the= WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to 6m and the number of spo= ts and users increasing all the time, its hardly fly by night.  JT etc= are used by EME lot too as you know, and its been used by me for the mighty total of= two QSOs on 500.   

 

 

tuning across the bands today I did not= hear any of these modes.  Probably be= cause most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday after all! I would be out= at work were it not for a slight issue of difference between my old CEO and hi= s investors resulting in our liquidation!!  Hey ho. Back to the CV= writing in between forarys on the radio!

 

Also as you kno= w with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can’t hear

 

 

Obviously the majority of ham operators= are not interested. Obv= iously?  To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ.  There’s more and more= WSPR users coming on to 500 and up.  Several users have tried and succeeded= with JT4A QSOs over good distances (me included and I’m a QRP newbie!).  I= f one was to look at the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it= is my guess that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc= .

 

It would appear MF attracts the Applian= ce Operator, Most of the= MF ops I know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be referring to me in wh= ich case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!  J

 

 

and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!  They said that about= T/A on 73KHz, walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinning jenny!    = Mal, put that clog down or you’ll get transported to the colonies

 

 

If you fancy your chances on VLF below= 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.   I for one am looking into it, and I in= deed have the appliances for Rx.  

 

 

 

Your observations ?<= span style=3D'color:navy'>  there you have them.   None of which are intended to change= your mind, as Voltaire himself said, “ I disagree vehemently with your opinion= but I will defend to the death your right to say it” (or at least word= s to that effect!)

 

de G3KEV 

 

73s de G7NKS (J= im)

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0298_01CAB49C.719D1BE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.81]) by air-me07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME072-8bb94b6d79d4275; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:16:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3D7A438000192; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:16:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdlRo-0004p6-EE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdlRo-0004ox-1D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml104.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.8]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdlRl-0004IA-5w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML104.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:15:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: "henny van elst" To: References: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:15:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2010 14:15:40.0120 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC659D80:01CAA736] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: PA3CPM Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514b6d79d34fc3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey,Tnx for the grabber and the capture, henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:42 PM Subject: LF: PA3CPM > Hello Henny, LF, > capture at 2.50z. > > 73 Andrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2670 - Release Date: 02/05/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-db06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB064-869a4b6f26b712f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:46:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8753E3800018B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0N-0004H1-7D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0M-0004Gs-RB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:18 +0000 Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE0H-0003ov-3l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:18 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o17Kj0lI005127 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:45:00 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.d07.6d93dac5 (37081) for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:44:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229246217.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.246.217]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB063-90d94b6f2644d9; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b6f26b51566 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, I have tried to set up an experimental "live" screen grabber for 100= kHz Loran-C: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm Display averaging is 5 minutes, with uploads approximately every 15 mi= nutes. Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still playing around with= the software. There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmit= ters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across the North= ern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details, like multiple= skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips followi= ng solar flares. Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Loran-C is sc= heduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see what will change= by tomorrow night. =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
I have tried to set up an experimenta= l "live"=20 screen grabber for 100 kHz Loran-C:
 
 
Display averaging is 5 minutes,&= nbsp;with=20 uploads approximately every 15 minutes.  Not sure how stable this is, as I'm stil= l playing around with=20 the software.
 
There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka=20 transmitters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagatio= n across=20 the Northern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details,= like=20 multiple skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips= following=20 solar flares.
 
Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American&nbs= p;Loran-C=20 is scheduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see&nbs= p;what=20 will change by tomorrow night.  
 
73, Markus=20 (DF6NM)
 
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAA83E.BEBA0060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.21]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB083-864a4b85c1423cf; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4F7C3380000E7; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRN3-000881-Nd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRN3-00087s-3r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkRN1-000071-9W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:25 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1P0ELHG011593 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:22 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:21 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:14:21 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: 9 Dreamers Thread-Index: Acq1dyt90d0+GTqtTNONL+LkAJzSeQAKrjEi References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.333 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077" Subject: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55471 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60154b85c140066c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optimisti= c way, just like children are dreamers! We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could sta= rt now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not done ye= t.=20 On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO over= 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and he pe= rsuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe i get= that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys are= still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next listeni= ng station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this woul= d be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: =20 The wire has abt 580pF I can get a air coil with L=3D85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance abt= 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (if it= remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. So, if f=3D8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some 470= pF/40kV Cs, no problem) The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, that me= ans, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the reg= ion of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of abt= 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be 0,0= 014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage acros= s the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... =20 If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reached= with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be expec= ted on a sunday morning? :-) =20 73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB5AF.7A848077 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhYAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEADwAAAEFXOiA5IERyZWFtZXJzAH4E AQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAAQAOABUABAAkAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAEADgAVAAQAJAEBCYABACEA AABEMTBGODhDQTc2NjdFRjQyOUI0MDQxQzY3MjczN0ExRAAnBwEDkAYASBEAADgAAAADADYAAAAA AEAAOQB3gIR6r7XKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1I U1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNTAwMTQyMVotMTA3NwAAAB4ASQABAAAADwAAAExGOiA5 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(james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2010 17:51:24 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: 8R9Hl9oVM1kBW3sTsh6nrphpuWQYtnuajiUSaQXuomze87pBxQaa4jr7H87yXuMCE6SgCmmXwm0zCBEf6AjsSSAsLD2p_Dp64O50d7VS9gxCsNXUYBhCOXSj1T5XydouNhkVxm1pHR_AQJz1t6rWt.LcV_h6Nt78W4l0cvQuAKd3YiL9K65vm9qIHaAEFpCv87dm5LSGx5BAcDEXnedXuPsw0R8AgOxurZehtcgve..U1kS3wQg_6PuD7OFOa0wp X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:51:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d280.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b880a6449c4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Markus, LF Group, I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effective height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF calibration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring sessions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna works out consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due to increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequencies. H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected. Of course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blown out of the water... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.143]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b7570393bf; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:14:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73761380001A5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:13:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxCX-0004HV-UC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxCX-0004HM-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfxCV-0002rX-8E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:01 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so533333bwz.31 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:12:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KgO4zymYSyg66rzoYkBZSgWewbB5GiYl/d6uOcIpqAY=; b=GCILfvtnVE1Dtrp4bzKNdpmn92/Eb2aSJXiolYUNe/7upT1ZFg3X/hG0OJyMFTEbeF mkoNjcn3V9qjOX97gYXr+k7APS6DMwA8YkOnbDDmS88CDEbcGjPVwrdvlbVfjU0Hm5EQ D1gMkKGay21C/9k2NWDs/oFR4sC/fjp1Hksj8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HEfJrFcx//govLMhYrjGWWqboDUxza9boeimigvTyMNPH6udd5W1pSIitzteQQBc6G 6Un/FKpsEakxpGxBCfAhyoEXHEFUNHCd9OKt2vfiotEvENY/eP/gD8bgJd2V92CaxieK O3GmPsNof3ZyVhjxtggvD3kReiZJDzE3g3tak= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.24 with SMTP id j24mr899032bkd.147.1265987572416; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:12:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:12:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m221.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0c4b7570303f54 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roge= r G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT= 7 programme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you recei= ve a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you hav= e callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on ge= n stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for eac= h message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0

If the sendi= ng station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is messag= e 6

=A0

A lot quicke= r than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best re= gards

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Co= wburn

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@b= topenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF= Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0<= /p>




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255579b28b40b9047f68b32b-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI053-eac84b6f29eb303; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:00:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6511638000145; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:00:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEE1-0004bK-GB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEE1-0004bB-2g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEDz-0003yh-89 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:59:25 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4625693pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=WaGwFHHMaNbcSsM2H5iqdhZ/fnvOBfLdTwQZ/14Yxc8=; b=TAGNpdWG3lpsXSQyMduVR5Ya24Eio5GetuH0+0YRMP0t4MF0iDYsp+h/rW2EbFB3U4 5KOLoEG0X+uwkPonOEb1ypvZ8gockSbLTLqFNmYnmud4bwKwEAacMEfjWMK3D+n61L3+ U/EA0pn5Q1mO9M6nV4xNzbGhft5xxGOWrepWE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=CZwcwLDj142OYKhKtPTLDz6Erbpbgpa6mwkQ7TldrwFoK8damrLJzOG0Uqr2V4OK3w ITdSiSc3to0BeC8mmtrgpYshz9Szqyl/q2L3GRAMs+1rzZazgixgnvDckDyxVsAzXZi7 8CLUphuTood/uTS9wU9BFCqLcSyWSdpnVvyeQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.82.21 with SMTP id f21mr3835063rvb.265.1265576356450; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:59:16 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1717e463f43d6e24 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b6f29e973ec X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. 73, Gary - G3WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz wrote: > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very wea= k trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB= on the signal.

73, Gary - G3WGT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



--000e0cd2de5a2994bc047f08f5b3-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.88]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b75bcc53b5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:40:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 516A9380002E3; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:40:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2IC-0005FQ-Rq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2IB-0005FH-U6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:11 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2I9-00054U-Mb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:11 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212203903.SXHM4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:03 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2I2-0008GG-HM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:39:03 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:38:56 -0000 Message-ID: <017001caac23$65de9800$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsGwAl4sO3OstgTjmmBJOm4elIAAACF1ag In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=ZxbN8ogpbp7sA2GTVe8A:9 a=Pl7TM68set8inSdk-NMA:7 a=2Osbzg_NC2NutvadZZA4VE7gZP8A:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=PiDc9PcP_p1m61w8:21 a=x3QRNt2H46wQjOlx:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=E1stdRdzvg9R4oXbyJAA:9 a=gYz6OLQSgKPG5cxqsyoA:7 a=eNnvZ-jiES8ttQXp5lfiURBm5FUA:4 a=LRv-I59-okCNJsdD:21 a=8Bo1Elq5Ri8UkkWz:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60584b75bcc31982 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A damn fine idea! 502.1 c u there With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A damn fine ide= a!   502.1  c u there

 

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

26 Birch Close<= o:p>

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds=

SG18 9NR

 

T +44= (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:38
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Jim,

 

We are all "Bozo's" at some point= in time :-))

 

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonig= ht ?

 

73, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <= james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be!!

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07


To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR= 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Ga= ry - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on= the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to= Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0171_01CAAC23.65DE9800-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA104-b5474b6ea41e148; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:29:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C978C38000261; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5JZ-0002Av-Sb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5JZ-0002Am-Fl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from kane.otenet.gr ([83.235.67.31] ident=OTEnet-mail-system) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne5JX-0000BA-79 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:28:33 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.1] (athedsl-269710.home.otenet.gr [85.73.101.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id o17BSTZ6026034 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:28:29 +0200 Message-ID: <4B6EA3DA.70205@otenet.gr> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:28:26 +0200 From: Alex Deligiannis User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> In-Reply-To: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by kane.otenet.gr id o17BSTZ6026034 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b6ea41c396a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Piotr M=C5=82ynarski wrote: > victor13@online.nl wrote: >> Hello Stefan, >> =20 >> I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for=20 >> blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. > Hi Victor, > please, send it also to me ... > > 73, Piotr, sq7mpj > > qth: Lodz /jo91rs/ > Please Victor send to my email too.... Thanks Alex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-me05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME052-8bb14b7300f9315; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:54:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 45B003800038A; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:54:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfHgN-0006rR-PO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfHgN-0006rI-FI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfHgL-0004FW-PW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:53:03 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXN00M8S3455S@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:52:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:52:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <0345360BD75841B19792E99144E16264@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 136.317.3khz Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b7300f834b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All, I am transmitting on 136.317.3khz qrss 60,all day and night,reports are welcome, Henny pa3cpm,JO-22MD. best 73s --Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello All,
 
I am transmitting on 136.317.3khz qrss 60,all day and night,reports are welcome,
Henny pa3cpm,JO-22MD.
best 73s
--Boundary_(ID_sUKRKgNbQzl1vkAuOFfVGw)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.133]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE051-5eb24b71403c263; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:00:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1B91338000156; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nenni-0003Dh-L8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nenni-0003DY-80 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nenne-0008VZ-LL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:58:38 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5d1cd.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.209.205] by mail.gmx.net (mp011) with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 11:58:27 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/86swNDjz80lhsBWav6DY59Cy7zvL1boHb6Wsqr1 hzkJ00yTbPwOur Message-ID: <005101caa976$cf3ac210$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100208-2, 08.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.69999999999999996,0.70999999999999996 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LF 136 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40854b71403b4b48 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300" ------=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last night I received a beacon on 136khz, but my sreen was to slow, be= cause I wrote PA3CPM. Who was the other beacon? transmitted from 0150 until 0715 UTC on 136.= 32 khz vy 73 Veit ------=_NextPart_001_004E_01CAA976.CED8F300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Last night I received a beacon on 136= khz, but my=20 sreen was to slow, because I wrote PA3CPM.
Who was the other beacon? transmitted= from 0150=20 until 0715 UTC on 136.32 khz
 
vy 73 Veit
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D03VJP8A8e0f/XR//ZaKKv7JUdmVu3408k4Xn1oopL4WJbMTsKO9FFLoIKKKKkAooopMAooo prYBQSO9I3SiimtwEP3RSkkqv1ooqlswJ2+43+exqs33vwH8qKKqp0LmPP3VpKKKznuiApRR RSADSUUUAFFFFABRRRQgHL0/GmDoPpRRTYC0vY0UVIDfSpB0P0/qKKKF8LA3vEgCvYgAAeRF 0/64Q1z7/wCtcdhRRVfZRchp6inH71FFWtiBKOxooqeoG94K/wCRz0T2v7Yj/v8AJXeauBdf GnT4rgedHNdBJUk+YSL5z8MD1HA4PoKKK5qvx/8Abp00NiLW3ebVdWkkZnd7eYszHJJEERGT 9VB/AeleYP8AcU99v/s1FFGC2XoVidkRt/D+P86b3NFFdrOQdH98U3uaKKhgFFFFSwCk7iii kgJH6CmdjRRTAOwpD1FFFDAcegpKKKQBRRRSAKO4ooq+gG/4G/5KF4c/7Clr/wCjkr7ZHSii onuAyc4gcjghTg1HcgRwuUG04Y5HHODzRRWb2A8U/aD6eGj/ALNz/wC0q8QPaiiv1Hh7/kVU /n/6UzirfGzauiV8DaUVJBOpXYyPQpbZFeh+BdNsJPhj4l1N7K2bULR7o210YlMsJW2R1KPj K4Ylhg8E560UV4eb7f8Ab3/t7NaW5wEcsk/grV5pnaSWTVLUu7nLMfLuOST1rCNFFfU4LeXq v/SYmE9zatv+RH1X/sI2X/ou5rGNFFbYf+LV/wAS/wDSYil0CiiiuwD/2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CAA976.CED8F300-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by 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t=1265908276; bh=sJyZ8raPD/r6EcWJzUMSK2D6MW+9FeCC0uQZ0UqHOfo=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ViEQIgdDIMcYe64D2prUFYFhgcpak+fWH7PUrsM9bdcEKzP8vW+cRoOi4J9HjcYb9bzcXpiA4PcvzEnLbKlizml8CgiBJ6GqHZmt4vLFSIcAeE0ZW3jgwHCoCr+DTmqOaHKfBwLhFYdacauqhKjxZduVD67LmL7w9gtX2xWzbaI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tykuEOMoM1JQfz19bMFsSVW3RM3fQiOE3rJIqJ5HRCMEuLTDUQyeh6zE+zKo/fO3EDuQRgsJiYCsRIIRB0FFyr2PMQH8lGMtW0z9laFRHsLHxMnyOz61fS4cLlWrgl5nc2Fd61YHFwe9AnnqbGSeLOfQWMUym1ZCjMluQU1AI1I=; Message-ID: <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qOZHJmwVM1nztCj7PBNTtrqc_ZrBitS2nSCZvPl1SIPdUdMD_VSyw28ZOlt5m5I3MVhetAxQkgD80OcCqWrx3dnZdGaZXAbNllfGlxp2D4.poUlooFQ1JZAsitDnlAPjYz3.xqnli4zLYewVhqb4jY720z58LuIDNX7YaJ9QfbWaR39VlLIDnTTNshhf1xgHc08H91jhmla12nbTDu1Z_lKFGQ2dvJQEp0aDXvVFVtOfRRUX8asc8x3b3lmdcJQ1.O0p0OjzD2qO_x9dicIwRbEwn8m3feNZYhjG_EiTYlBGhOLfrR4L.odV Received: from [86.130.62.91] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:16 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:16 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m289.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b743a741176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Dom =A0 Hope to hear you soon. CW Good=A0 .........=A0WSPR BAD!!=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA =20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done Dom
 
Hope to hear you soon. CW Good  ......... WSPR BAD!! <= BR>
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines &= lt;dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.= com>
Subject: LF: New NoV
To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@b= lacksheep.org>
Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02

Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.=
Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.
= Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso
pe= rhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.
72

Dom
M1KTA

=20 --0-1427994230-1265908276=:25085-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD021-8b784b7c552e2ac; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 93C9038000055; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:44:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhqjy-0000Lh-D7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhqjy-0000LY-2w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhqjv-0002v4-LA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:43:22 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1HKgnZq012476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:12:49 -0330 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:12:49 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b7c552c4b5b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Thanks Henny! Joe On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 17-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.141]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b8315f42d4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:40:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6AC338000059; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhsL-0006vO-TC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhsL-0006vF-4W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhsI-0006ph-Rz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:39:41 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MNdawt009360 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:39:36 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:39:37 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EN5EuGcfa20TTgSt4k5J4/DGrQAAlu1hAAEk1eo= References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.232719 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB418.4B3D7B98" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55379 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b8315f202c9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB418.4B3D7B98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik, Alan,=20 =20 I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a vertical loop by usi= ng the ground.=20 =20 Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper C (to ground),= especially when talking about high voltages and high currents? Just cover= ed with some soil and easy to adjust/modify... =20 Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 00:12 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Pete, =20 what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the= same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a= more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power shoul= d be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable= that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. =20 73, Rik =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. 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Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.170]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b7486d32dc; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:38:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7051738000AAF; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhf1-0002Y2-NF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfhf1-0002Xs-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhez-0005pk-LN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:23 +0000 Received: (qmail 91697 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 22:37:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=pWGqT0RyPjzklzhb7v91dCKKfVps76YzeREMAaNryDmUAG37UcLtRNN6IMBWmLi4JZccnwLxKI4u5uCgumrSSviW3YWXX7BOGXxHfX5ZPJzEdBUZYVRcEePfCoBjm2NVDe1dbNnwYom3u2jfC+/tkaPffossTyRlfHAI+/zRCbQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 22:37:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: EVSth1kVM1kEPxFW4aIIPWNRe_ldAu7BOOaWfzpsactXtq8Kk0RNFQWrzKzR.2QqMMsQW7P.6EcWHZqpGGXJ2Nfu49Gz0cAxIeeuWSn8.broU5nqJoLQzSbQANoI6awuZlbRpwBjCUsThtwaRzcgaFNA5y.vkEUJihvX96t6hk2XHh5MMGhwtsWegojoz9J.vPxaG79Rae2h19UlvrL9y4P_HLy2zJfnaWbQZqcjGiJjOGLntFRMf2s7E6X5pqj7Dq2M_REyxzTFhEeO0J5LHnTY786mr_QViiH4zes- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded44b7486d20dbd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight > on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC091-86054b8a6abd6e; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:08:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 930B0380000AD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:08:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlirW-0004RP-3S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlirV-0004RG-In for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:09 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlirS-0007ZA-Oa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:07:09 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.198]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SD6p1d013347 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:06:51 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 6EA39E00008A for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:06:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:06:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c64b8a6a6a6fc0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b8a6abb02cc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Alexander, LF, the frequency rulers of the modified Argo are actually correct, and yo= u can see how I reduced the bandwidth when going further away. The min= imum setting was 90 second dots, giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when= running at 4x normal samplerate (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) . The marginal "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thu= s the noise level (including spherics) would have been on the order of= 15 dBuV/m/sqrtHz. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alexander S. Yurkov=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radia= ting=20 > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting= up a 6m > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the= laptop > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screensh= ot, > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patch= ed for > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection= range > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. Dear Markus, In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=3D1uW= D=3D6km yelds E=3D1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. Bu= t we should normalyze this to bandwith. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Alexander, LF,
 
the frequency rulers of the= modified Argo=20 are actually correct, and you can see how I reduced the band= width when=20 going further away. The minimum setting was 90 second= dots,=20 giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when running at 4x normal sam= plerate=20 (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) .
 
The marginal=20 "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thus the no= ise level=20 (including spherics) would have been on the order of 15=20 dBuV/m/sqrtHz.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 6:33=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noi= se=20 level
=
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010,=20 Markus Vester wrote:
> In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt= an 8.97=20 kHz carrier, radiating
> about 1 microwatt from my normal LF= antenna=20 (220 pF at ~ 9m eff.
> height). I drove around and stopped in= different=20 places, putting up a 6m
> fishing pole with a wire, connected= to a=20 resonant circuit and the laptop
> soundcard. Each time I took= a short=20 Spectrogram full-band screenshot,
> along with a narrowband ca= pture from=20 a special Argo version, patched for
> 22 kHz samplerate. An as= sembly of=20 the screenshots is at
> http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif<= /A>.=20 Maximum detection range
> was 6 km, just marginally outside th= e reactive=20 nearfield. No
> noiseblanking was attempted at the time.
Dear=20 Markus,
In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signa= l? P=3D1uW=20 D=3D6km
yelds E=3D1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate nois= e level. But=20 we
should normalyze this to=20 bandwith.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB



------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAB87F.3D1D05B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.93]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB082-a7d84b86caee39; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:09:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF6ED3800010F; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:09:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkj4W-00073k-OG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkj4W-00073b-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f171.google.com ([209.85.216.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkj4U-0007sN-Br for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:28 +0000 Received: by pxi1 with SMTP id 1so167002pxi.16 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:08:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=eFGMXvhVeNsXDn6WtXIG8y6C+/S4SWNIJBSW0NV9LlI=; b=Ui+tyJngK6CRq8KU1w7zNA2rIDoy4YiepUWPLGxoU+bVlRK0MZcaoIt+0ZEPttSQXp aMjMZ1OIeAeTfYal1ue8mmpUd+0uFoABqknnIuAGtTqiL0zN29sFMN+JRAXfpDBeieqg DRgvESYFhVBvmIIYl3M6clSUGK/ahBZE/AX2k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=IwFSxRExhuAS2jcijEJwbN0NacvrERXd2TFLvXv4sF0Qe2Sxq0b737Nm7M1CENE0Kn y4u4ZXcrPXaBb5w1FMX+I7o8c65QcPBxSoQtwiQusl4MbTYAh5qBDWS4+TNwL0qbRD4u 1B4PdrXRw+JW8YDkCnhgILT3bvq4kmfOCa9ZQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.14 with SMTP id d14mr796811rva.149.1267124898728; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:08:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:08:18 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7f00a0812d6d5879 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369207ff798ae20480718144 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m225.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b24b86caeb5870 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016369207ff798ae20480718144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF, There is a VLF Group at the following :- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ The members discuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informative group. 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz > range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmit= ters > are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in thi= s > frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving= ? > There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done wit= h LF > and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some > tests, to increase the RXers density. > Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rat= her > be active at the transmitters front now ;-) > > Stefan/DK7FC > --0016369207ff798ae20480718144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF,

There is a VLF Group at the following :-=


=
The members= discuss & are involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "n= atural radio"

Have a look at some of the dis= cussions, it is an interesting & informative group.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


<= div>
2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-= darmstadt.de>
Which commercial VLF transmitters can act= ually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but= in times where these transmitters are shut down all this may be already= old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a fr= equency and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the= VLF sector and have nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an= idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers dens= ity.
Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-)

Stefan/DK7FC

--0016369207ff798ae20480718144-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF024-5ee94b8aaa9993; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:40:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C4523800009B; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:40:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nln79-0007JP-Dk for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nln78-0007JG-Rq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:34 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nln76-0000hC-9I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:34 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1211313bwz.4 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=P1B/cMkmPWVPe55JX03o+YUXK+Q4ZsKiWx0L/ejHDgE=; b=viKJo1P4KHwMEr6aqJUwpOHYxI6/15533gW8GmPksqlgU8a4c3xn+znvp88dRKpoRk VhJLpsbLX1ZEr4/kekswabUS1VwY0g4uZnHag483IymLfB1LqOTJwBLdETrOeqTgP3y0 +kf2yMBrVaElnOXvfG19Wf+TQOngdZd+ZXWzo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=maxIdlMjvueKl+EGOoT6XlpaYPa3WkFKDIdE5QWvuxwclCHPm1+SCwvUOXTiTw6ONS eW5ghX8HkIC8dUEDQ8jrQKGLMKSwa76OJ0jyDxLspJA7wFmEG7F8zKobDqheX34pfdW9 zZNChZYIT+hL6wGBSMFBlTCusSPTbnV92pdGY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.208 with SMTP id y16mr2183278bks.137.1267378766050; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m203.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b8aaa974b63 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Marcus et al, Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a few kms will be fun. Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down to attention seeking. 73s Roger G3XBM On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrote: > Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views, we > definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement. > > And, best of all, it's fun. > > Best 73, > Markus, DF6NM > > > *From:* tim hague > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking > forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this > from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur > community. > > Tim M0AFJ > mal hamilton wrote: > > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an > > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be > > broken without the KITE, > > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > > > > G3KEV > > ..... > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001517448ad82575680480ac9d62 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I in= tend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a= few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself= and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Most here just= ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists wo= uld put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM



On 28 Fe= bruary 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com> wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his vi= ews, we definitely see=20 his=A0interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
=A0
And, best of all,=A0it's fun.
=A0
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
=A0

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looki= ng=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this= from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill= top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his= =20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
> Do no= t=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>=A0
>= =20 G3KEV
>=A0 .....



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--001517448ad82575680480ac9d62-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.138]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6d72543b7; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:44:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C6EE38000199; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndkwh-0004hS-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndkwg-0004hJ-K3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:34 +0000 Received: from mx40.mail.ru ([94.100.176.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndkwd-0003w5-FV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:43:34 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=15453 helo=EFREMOV) by mx40.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ndkw4-0002dZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:42:56 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <002601caa732$47bbe4e0$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:42:27 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408a4b6d725222f1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Henny, LF, capture at 2.50z. 73 Andrey ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAA74B.5E274C60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="cpm.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="cpm.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjowNiAxNjozODowOQAFAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAANTMxAAKgBAABAAAA+AIAAAOgBAABAAAAFgAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAA 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DE41F380001B7; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:53:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4kT-0001nM-Ka for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4kS-0001nD-TV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:16 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4kP-0008MV-LE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:52:16 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so3329637pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:52:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=KUPgtrfb+rRyKfud2oGblyu5DLWiwSHV8+7oou+P5gc=; b=mSijvfSG+aGmffT5E7fkh55BJ1LY20u6X6s8oxcMNou1kkIFWNyLMup57SPU4pIwOp orU/YMefm7KxgEcpqiBlWYKt9IlYn7dtOUc/Oy3r3jDevwD2xwk2b4hQmYc1Y43sXPtR 29m89tvk/y2jQv3IyKzefazpckCjN2cNZTNSM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=PojDR3e8kX4dGt+Ei4sMStMucdipRJ3PWlOXq8bFWKidnLelzGanwm7+5tHbcFJXZ8 D6SQTm/i1oE6389eVCZgg6ZljGEd2d1U/yAVFw+2JPAq0R49LXK47crlXj3dUgca7Wb4 9GrpH7Skn0DxDFihycjVBSf5Dk7V+9Nlyc/1c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.247.15 with SMTP id u15mr3504588rvh.166.1265539925611; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:52:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:52:05 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5406b93990d94ec5 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6e9b9c53ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Roelof & All, Just for your information I am using a PA0RDT Mini-Whip antenna for my grabbers, it is connected to 2 receivers via a passive 50 ohm splitter. The antenna size is 30 x 45 mm on the PCB. You can see my results at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/grabber2.html The Mini-Whip is at about 9 metres high on a 1 metre PVC stand off arm attached to my main steel mast. The mast is 90mm diameter & the coax from the Mini-Whip runs along the stand off arm & down the side of the mast with my other coax cables from 3 other antennas & the rotator control cable. The Mini-Whip coax is grounded at the base of the mast as is the mast itself. It seems to work very well. I have not compared the results with running the coax away from the mast straight down from the active antenna, could be a test I could carry out next time I have to work on the antennas. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 10:11, Roelof Bakker wrote: > Hello Alan, > > Thank you for the hands up. > Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the > coax inside or outside the mast. > But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roof or > what else. > So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests. > > Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not only > an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test gear. > It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy but > accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be set to 5 > Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm. And a 40 > MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is great in > tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc. > > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > > --000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roelof & All,

Just for your information I am using= a PA0RDT Mini-Whip antenna for my grabbers, it is connected to 2 receiver= s via a passive 50 ohm splitter. The antenna size is 30 x 45 mm on the PCB= . You can see my results at

The Mini-Whip is at about 9 metres high on a 1 metre PVC stand off ar= m attached to my main steel mast. The mast is 90mm diameter & the coax= from the Mini-Whip runs along the stand off arm & down the side of th= e mast with my other coax cables from 3 other antennas & the rotator= control cable.

The Mini-Whip coax is grounded at the base of the mast= as is the mast itself. It seems to work very well. I have not compared th= e results with running the coax away from the mast straight down from the= active antenna, could be a test I could carry out next time I have to wor= k on the antennas.

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.


On 7 February 2010 10:11, Roelof Bakker <roelof@ndb.demon.nl> wrote:
Hello Alan,

Thank you for the hands up.
Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the co= ax inside or outside the mast.
But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roo= f or what else.
So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests.

Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not= only an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test= gear. It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy= but accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be se= t to 5 Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm.= And a 40 MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is= great in tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc.

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt


--000e0cd1a106b71790047f007948-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF093-8bfb4b8670541b7; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:43:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 24A77380000BC; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkd2e-0003k8-HX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkd2e-0003jy-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkd2b-0004aN-VX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1PCggbW020648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1PCggU1020645 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:42 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:42:42 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.411 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Poland on LF activity - Friday 20100226 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b8670530ba2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all! The Polish Amateur Radio Union has a new "Poland on Long Wave - 136 kHz Award", which is the second LF award avaliable in Europe. Rules are avaliable at: http://awards.pzk.org.pl/html/136_PL.htm On Friday 26 February 2010 there will be 3 stations active: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF receiving 137,710kHz transmiting 7,123kHz +-QRM Activity will start from abt. 20:00 UTC. Also I will have my LF grabber active all week 24h/day for propagation tests: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ Watch the amplitude scale - if your signal peaks >20dB above noise (the FFT bin width is 0.5Hz), we can try a normal CW QSO. VY 73 and hope to see (and hear!) you on LF! Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB043-86464b82f7341a9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A4590380000B9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfpS-0004li-DL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfpR-0004lZ-Ek for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:33 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjfpO-0005YH-FB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:28:33 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DC57B804A for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7422931E702 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:28:19 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:24:46 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz7Bi1LKXlI4KiQZCTHZKM2GKYjAAGVvLc Message-ID: References: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b82f7313546 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns, 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren= Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,<= /font>
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm= has a resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen= 't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-=
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net><= /i> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1



On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember=
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region.
>
> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diffe= rent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>> that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst= .tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>>   Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configurations for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>
>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>> think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>> Horst
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>

--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4065ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.10]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b856b1a1eb; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:08:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A5CD9380008B2; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:53:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkLPK-0006ka-9m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkLPJ-0006kR-UE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:21 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f192.google.com ([209.85.221.192]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkLPG-0006WV-US for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:52:21 +0000 Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30so1110627qyk.16 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:52:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rTPw+QmAhnY8peKzWe9ho0C5Hno1elRR6gC61zGOXW0=; b=bBKDL+bJ74FnL+bYvxFD03o+9gTSNtOSSMdvxd3RXtCvC9jX+LL62GED/DKDkSowqh DEXMUSgadLkMzBZ0BPZQVc1g4MzJBHFZmyY++qVVjCRoaCQECfltVfolvtSvDiVXSmHO 66z7xzOtCT/+6vBcj/EdtrdpNMfCy1D/TDSME= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=qpgb9M+mzpMOOvsTrUZK6LtDmMwARfw9CyXsiWc3ya/Yi+rzGcZKU/lw0ugoGn5lC2 3BIVxd9A0mv2qPmtUUQQ9AxMXNKojQa9BFEQMXGY3VLJ+sDzSEYAbzblM+cWEmCIrD9W WoKttAQrGcHqbg+MYpbXmXp+xiOwrWXu1ACcE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.35.3 with SMTP id n3mr112506qad.169.1267033927836; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:52:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:52:07 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002240952s155937e2u366f805638a43d6b@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m267.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600a4b85679766d9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Mal, My guess is that 9kHz will be more fun to talk about than actually doing it, especially when they see how limited the possibilities are... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:18 PM, mal hamilton wro= te: > Get started and see what happens. > 9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L antennas as big as possible and > resonated at 9 kcs=A0with a suitable series=A0inductor =A0plus some grou= nd > radials/rods etc > Suitable atu between amp and antenna and see what DX can be worked. > Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget all about losses and gold plated= foil, > STOP speculation and dreaming and get STARTED.. > TIP > Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms and match with atu to antenna then yo= u > can use existing test equipment to observe progress. > Turn your DREAM into REALITY!! > G3KEV > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj10.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.146]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b824f7d11e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:33:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 25BCC380000BA; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:33:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjUeK-000070-Rb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjUeK-00006r-Dx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjUeI-00086f-3r for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:20 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1M9WGG4001800 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:17 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:32:16 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: Acqzms8B+A3JrZtfSxqc+Gb+rwTu2gABT0+c References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.91536 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0" Subject: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55350 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0f4b824f7a4ab5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Horst,=20 =20 That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in= the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. =20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that ra= nge and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. The= re, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire= and nobody will care about it. Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... =20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) =20 What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF= stations in that range? Are there some? =20 73, Stefan =20 PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhEJAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKgAAAEFXOiBMRjogQVc6IEJlYWNv bmluZyBvbiA4Ljc5IGtIeiBpbiBRUlNTAPYLAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYACgAgABAAAQA0AQEggAMA DgAAANoHAgAWAAoAIAAQAAEANAEBCYABACEAAABGNjZGQjg2NDkyRjExODQ0OTRBNTlGQTAzNjgw NTM4MAADBwEDkAYASBMAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgnSbsobPKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAA AAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIwOTMy MTZaLTkyNwAAAB4ASQABAAAAKgAAAFJFOiBMRjogQVc6IEJlYWNvbmluZyBvbiA4Ljc5IGtIeiBp biBRUlNTAAAAQABOAACIjReZs8oBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFj a3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNn 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EAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRUxMT0hPUlNULFRIQVRTT1VORFNSRUFMTFlOSUNFSUZJVFdPVUxE QkVFQVNZVE9GSU5EU09NRU1PVElWQVRFRE9NU0lOVEhFTkVBUkZJRUxEKDMxS00pOy0pLFRIQVRX T1VMAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUIw NEBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AAA22g== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3A1.EC269DE0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD014-86a94b709f81111; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:34:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 48B243800012B; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ned68-00020B-03 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ned67-000202-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:55 +0000 Received: from mta21.charter.net ([216.33.127.81]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ned64-00054h-Q1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:32:55 +0000 Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100208233241.ZQIJ21519.mta21.charter.net@imp11> for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:32:41 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.189.74.84]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id fbYh1d00F1p78xe05bYhwy; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:32:41 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=jvKujuGdJHhM1vHKJAIA:9 a=Q7zvyFE5xDPAGHwjtNMA:7 a=xa7_ehzZivab7koYJnsVABb6MckA:4 Message-ID: <4B709FAE.8030501@charter.net> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:35:10 -0500 From: John Andrews User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> In-Reply-To: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b709f7f1618 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Taking a listen when I arrived home from work, there is only one chain audible, probably from the Nantucket site, which is nearest. Had not heard that sound in years! At a former employer's site, we used to check calibration on a secondary frequency standard by simply injecting 100 kHz from a divider chain into a simple receiver. You could follow the resulting beat aurally, or with much greater accuracy, with the s-meter. If memory serves, this was back in the mid-1970's. When the dual-rated operation started from Nantucket, this simple approach was no longer possible. John, W1TAG On 2/8/2010 3:39 PM, Markus Vester wrote: > Dear LF, > this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both > ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting > down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably > because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be > singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > :-(( > 73, Markus > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/08/10 19:35:00 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.12]) by air-mf04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF043-8be74b76721e16e; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E70B638000120; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgEMn-0006Ly-KW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgEMn-0006Lp-9A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgEMl-000844-9Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:32:45 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXR005MDX6A6U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:32:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:32:33 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <75A3AD605EE644AFA3A7553549FA4EF3@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 13-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54942 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400c4b76721c7fe7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng)" --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,All, capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 13-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,All,
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 13-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_1B4hMQm1mq2ai4THlBqnng)-- --Boundary_(ID_RWVdXcpQWTx5VjGiUvA7Lw) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 13-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 13-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAqkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwABAgQFBggH/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH5C6N6gJmhzuVkLakCjWanCxV1CjeQ FeTPQCIGc4SmRMFivJjPYp5u00YbpnGfOYjg+ZYiYO1yGo5Q5AuF2sy3uYzDhEBCUKQzwpQI M0sbotA4J0hljKSYjB0bPYrySUYQr1OTW04pYKxEUt2QM0JIgnUk0HLxLFJTLXpxsiUNnUWk 0hwXBIvTdewh5AyRgpZEQSjey5ooTDUSeemaYpNWjAFpl1VVtKlKkO1WKG2m+Znw0xJ05KGm ZJVjaEH1Ac9560IsokZ7zNGZ9dagiXoVJtGU3nxsRuQi2Jc9YTWhaYs2xlKoWapdYkElu3Qe 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(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NhoH3-0002eR-5a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:05:21 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:05:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acqv+8dBMWPhs55rQraU3yHtego6tQ== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1NhoH3-0002eR-5a X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-2.909, vereist 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_05 -1.11, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140" Subject: LF: 0.501 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b7c304a3b65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello lf Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello lf

Pa3ego test qrs 10 on 0.501.500

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB004.297CC140-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b82a5c4f4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:41:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 61F8F38000129; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaP9-0001bG-OF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaP9-0001b6-6A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaP6-0002Zk-VF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100222154054.SURE4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:54 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaP0-0002R6-0n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:54 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:40:53 -0000 Message-ID: <011e01cab3d5$6b75f920$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: Acqz1A081+AfT9eiRNqMXPIvTy8xRgAARt/g X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=sM9o4fZmomUROB6xvIsA:9 a=sBCBc_wTP0REnwJ6mlEA:7 a=qrdMry04Nkox87L-huP3j1OFBKoA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=Nw-gdm4dIrdVRGI1:21 a=npBM0LmRUCLOdjSO:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=eeuRTDgHSEXUkVsFjD4A:9 a=T8bN77vsV6J6xCCDkN8A:7 a=TiWj_80Yt6t1YCJ7RZCDajC4hHMA:4 a=HtYGFMcs0BjHdSPD:21 a=LeTUmskCEG_B0gLl:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b82a5c23d44 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Given that virtually nothing is radiated then is it really "radio"?? Or could it be in fact our own version of PLT?? Albeit at very uber vlf and using the earth as the mains? Discuss? With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 22 February 2010 15:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Rick, Horst, et al, I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode" experiments between 0 and 50kHz. If you ask OFCOM I suspect they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI. It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induction loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe wrote: And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK? Stefan, in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Given that virt= ually nothing is radiated then is it really “radio”??   Or could it be in= fact our own version of PLT?? Albeit at very uber vlf and using the earth as the ma= ins?   Discuss?

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E jame= s.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of R= oger Lapthorn
Sent: 22 February 2010= 15:29
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.= 79 kHz

 

Rick, Horst, et al,

 

I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was= required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode"= ; experiments between 0 and 50kHz.  If you ask OFCOM I suspect they= will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI.

 

It would be very interesting to know just how= far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very= best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induc= tion loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing= will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction.

 

73s

Roger G3XBM

 



 

On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.= be> wrote:


And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?=

 

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free"

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_011F_01CAB3D5.6B75F920-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b8a96a12f2; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:15:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9EF64380000DA; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nllml-0006Cq-TT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nllml-0006Cg-Ho for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nllmj-0000E5-Lb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah4FAJ4kiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOOAWUOuCOEewQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="293122712" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:14:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01cab891$12baef50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:14:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: 9 DREAMERS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b8a969f1767 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 9 Dreamers - sounds like a POP group. Don't encourage Stefan, Jim and others to fire 200 K/volts at one anot= her, this is EARTH QUAKE stuff - no more tremors please. I have heard= also that some persons in Southern EU resonate at that frequency. G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
9 Dreamers - sounds like a POP group.=
Don't encourage Stefan, Jim and other= s to fire 200=20 K/volts at one another, this is EARTH QUAKE stuff - no more tremors pl= ease. I=20 have heard also that some persons in Southern EU resonate at that=20 frequency.
 
G3KEV
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB891.125B9140-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB084-869c4b865fa015d; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:31:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1E899380001DF; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbvc-0002PS-5N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbvb-0002PJ-Kx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:47 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbvY-0003hG-Kx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:47 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBUgQZ005749 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:30:42 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:30:43 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:29:28 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq2B4VHaS3+sNR3TdWaZn3t6WhZ0wABkUnK References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.112124 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300" Subject: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55492 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b865f996e02 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is one way to start but maybe the 50Hz and it's harmonics could cause= problems to the soundcard? Maybe it is useful to apply a simple LC-bandpa= ss and/or a resonated antenna (wire, L and parallel C, stepped L or separa= te primary winding) in a circuit, active or passive... Stefan/7fc ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 11:38 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and ins= tall either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC to= 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. Us= ing SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum allo= wing it to be processed by others.=20 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. =20 It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and= or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 =20 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I= can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is gettin= g better I will be able to get out working on the antenna. =20 Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth= electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas becau= se my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will diss= ipate most of the power which means it be getting very very hot and probab= ly fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have= been kicked around on the is reflector and off list there may be somethin= g I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 =20 =20 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weeken= d if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, coul= d you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. =20 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Ja= mes Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 Dear LF Group, =20 A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high= , 40m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna= set up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached= graph=20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz= for=20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-fie= ld=20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded= by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods,= close =20 to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antenn= as was =20 very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. =20 At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for= the=20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency= -=20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage incr= eases=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text book= s say, =20 for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate= at low =20 frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually= cause =20 resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna= , a=20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. =20 The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be high= er at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A sui= table=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 35= 0pF -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with= a Q of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolera= ted=20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance wi= th a Q =20 of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance= of=20 the antenna would definitely be useful... =20 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.F75CB300 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHQAAAEFXOiBMRjogUkU6IFJlOiBW TEZfOC43OSBrSHoASgcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAMAB0AHAAEAEUBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkADAAe ACsABABVAQEJgAEAIQAAADc3MTI1NzIwNjE0NTVENEE4MjlBNUYzQzkzRTU1N0FGAAsHAQOQBgDU GgAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AI8TbcoNtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTEzMDQzWi0xMTA1AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAdAAAAUmU6IExGOiBSRTogUmU6IFZMRl84Ljc5IGtIegAAAABAAE4AgFXStQa2ygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn 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pd4mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2010 19:56:44 -0700 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=1 a=j0nf1SoGX0kASvv5Unis3A==:17 a=63NJiR3fAAAA:8 a=_Dj-zB-qAAAA:8 a=QBLS0FcSrJnrV--_2rcA:9 a=zGX8h9LLrPTsHHopd9nNOK-otp0A:4 Received: from unknown (HELO MaynePC) ([24.108.39.108]) by pd3ml2so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with SMTP; 05 Feb 2010 19:56:44 -0700 Message-ID: <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> From: To: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:56:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89aa4b6cdab25176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Has VE finally been given 2200m then? Steve / VE7SL > Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. > > Welcome !!! > > > > F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP > > RX: PM-SDR > Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 > > _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook": http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-db06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB062-86204b6d0e772f1; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:38:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D3F7238000118; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:38:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdeI8-000340-IO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdeI8-00033r-1J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdeI5-0001RY-0j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:37:16 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2361A4C8070 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:37:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5E34C80BD for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:37:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:37:07 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b6d0e7555bb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Joe , Happy to find this signal which missed us so much, welcome on 777 (your frequency is always free) 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj F4DTL@aol.com a =E9crit : > Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. > =20 > Welcome !!! > =20 > =20 > =20 > F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP > > RX: PM-SDR > Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 > > _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/)= =20 > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB054-a5bc4b6fe3042ca; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:10:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5461D380001A5; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeQXk-0008E7-Qo for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeQXk-0008Dy-F2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeQXi-0008OP-Gb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:08:36 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXI001HUPI217@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:08:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:08:15 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VO1NA 08-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Xb+6h44MWco0w6lkVMVK2Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b6fe3026458 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Xb+6h44MWco0w6lkVMVK2Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg)" --Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the first signs. henny cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VO1NA 08-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_ld6H72mT3u+386p81ftpzg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the first signs.
henny cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VO1NA 08-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b6b1462179; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:39:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF8B238000221; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:39:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6au-0005O2-8v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6at-0005Nt-Tq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:23 +0000 Received: from smtpq3.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.166]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd6ar-0003At-VB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:38:23 +0000 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BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 502 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b6b146063a3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tnx viktor voor report. 73s willem pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0 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Tnx viktor voor report.

 

73s willem pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAA5D1.9A2319E0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.14]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME041-8bac4b76fb9b3c7; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EE9E838000152; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgNWP-0006nw-TM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgNWP-0006nn-Et for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgNWN-0002KI-Md for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:19:17 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1DJJB5F021488 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:12 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:11 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:11 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF8@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF8@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Audio reference signal by DCF77 clock? Thread-Index: AcqrYKNcQRLVwG9XQueyRDmVcxTy7AADRSanAFrTpmc= References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.13.190631 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619" Subject: LF: Audio reference signal by DCF77 clock? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400e4b76fb99528f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF group, =20 I have a question to an audio reference signal generator and, as always,= you will have some good suggestions... =20 Since today i have also installed Spectrum Lab by DL4YHF. There, i found= the possibility to make a correction of the transceiver frequency drift= by applying a audio reference signal. This is very useful for me, since= my K2 has a temperature frequency drift of arround 20Hz (e.g. when openin= g the window, snow outside). =20 If i understood it correctly, i have to apply this signal to e.g. the left= audio channel (microphone input at the PC), if my RX signal is at the rig= ht channel(?).=20 =20 One way to generate that reference signal could be to use my DDS-VFO at e.= g. f=3D600,0Hz. But than i cannot use it any more to generate a test signa= l in the 137kHz range. =20 So i thought about building a reference signal generator, using DCF77 at= 77,50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 kHz= ;-) There are several ways to realise that and also many ready to use cir= cuits. But i want to build my own(!). I have an idea about the circuit but= perhaps it is a good idea to ask YOU if this will give a stable reference= signal: =20 Input stage should be a standard ferrite rod antenna, brought to resonance= by a C, of course. Than a simple amplifier using a BF245C or so. Then, fu= rther amplification until the voltage waveform gets (almost) rectangular.= Perhaps a schmitt trigger stage, such as CMOS4093 to get a proper rectang= ular signal. Then, 4 D-Flipflops CMOS4013 to divide the signal by 128. The= resulting frequency should be 605,4687500000000000000000000000000000000= Hz. If this will be a solution, it would cost not even 10EUR... =20 My question, or worries, are about the following: What about the noise ,= that is added to the voltage of DCF77? Will the frequency vary a few pHz= ( ;-) ) due to that noise? And what about the trigger level of the schmit= t trigger: This cheep circuit may not have a constant trigger level and th= us the periode will vary from pulse to pulse? What about QSB of the signal= of DCF77? This will vary the voltage (between constant time steps, when= du(DCF)/dt is changing within two steps) at the input of the schmitt trig= ger and thus the output frequency will be f+ x*du/dt? In other words: It= is possible to use the frequency 77,5000... kHz itself, or do i have to= read out the message schema, that is provided, such as the cheep digital= clocks do it? =20 There are several modules available, that provide a 1Hz output signal or= so. But what i want is a frequency in the NF range, that can be applied= to the soundcard or a direct conversion receiver. Since my interest is no= rmally based on LF operation, not to normal frequeny generators, this shou= ld not become a to big project, so easy but homemade circuits will be choo= sen :-) =20 What do you think? =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAACE1.6BFCE619 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgwTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAKwAAAExGOiBBdWRpbyByZWZlcmVu Y2Ugc2lnbmFsIGJ5IERDRjc3IGNsb2NrPwAMDgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgANABQAEwALAAYAKAEBIIAD AA4AAADaBwIADQAUABMACwAGACgBAQmAAQAhAAAAQUJCOTg4NkE0NkM3MTM0RkFENEM5RUYzMTBE RjBCQjEAagcBA5AGAFAWAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAGeb8a+GsygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABMRjog AAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjEzMTkx OTExWi02OTYAAAAeAEkAAQAAACMAAABBVzogQVc6IExGOiBGaWJlciBvcHRpYyBjb21wb25lbnRz AABAAE4ALU65b3KrygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu 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1NdS61-0006A5-F6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdS61-00069w-2a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdS5y-0004wI-7h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:35:57 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o15HZPrP019720 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:25 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.bfd.72336f1d (43952) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.145]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD011-5bb84b6c56cf49; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:35:22 -0500 Received: from magic-m23.mail.aol.com (magic-m23.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.196]) by smtprly-da02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDA027-5bb84b6c56cf49; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:35:11 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:35:11 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 79.94.238.208 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b6c57340c6c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary" --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band with your beacon. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Strong this evening Henny.In test my new receiver SDR on LF band with= your=20 beacon.
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/
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xspkmMPlKlfJ2G3cwknp0oQfhm1d+ghprO0THMNMPtTqus3pmm7tyqTqZg/p3u6pui7vdqnvDhHf nk4QZIKX1cEFnglpFEITCW3FoGAORG8O+MMDLEAUwI6AnFkJ+CEZ7AItmknlOq2P4C0uqu7ani/6 /i76AkAGkGr6ri/8xq/8zi8i0q/9Us3eDu/BHG8sKIEzlMEOwAEOLMAO+M4LlAClOmtphRLg3K8D h20dBAQAOw== --part1_bb74.3820a4a9.389db0cf_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI053-eac84b881dcf250; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8A67E38000088; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dy-0008FL-0U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dx-0008FC-KF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:33 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5dq-0008Ar-Ru for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:33 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100226191415.DDTS4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:15 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5df-000133-AX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:15 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:14 -0000 Message-ID: <009c01cab717$e2f183d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acq3F+KiWrO1Rv63TN6X8BxNDev0aw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=KZcMsPGDkIDgkjqF-EUA:9 a=GKLGUjsH9F5pGMgpTe2rXouB3aIA:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=NeeU8fEcwMJSOEwAFkMA:9 a=T2wFnB-2Kr9f-KC8JZ8A:7 a=ej75W0D-coy93W3xTy1id0Pea1gA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9KHz NOV application in! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b881dcd48b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LF NOV applicn submitted today via hard copy and PDF. Got a reply from Rod at Ofcom to acknowledge receipt but he did say it could be some time before he gets feedback as to whether he can issue a NOV. I will keep you all appraised Have a good weekend all With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LF

 

NOV applicn submitted today via hard co= py and PDF.  Got a reply from Rod at Ofcom to acknowledge receipt but he did say it could= be some time before he gets feedback as to whether he can issue a NOV.

 

I will keep you all appraised

 

Have a good weekend all

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn G7NKS

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAB717.E2F183D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.12]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC044-a9324b75c2012d3; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EF7AA380000ED; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2e4-0005NV-RB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng2e4-0005NM-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng2e1-0005Dj-IZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:01:48 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1CL1bLx022164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:31:37 -0330 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:31:37 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4b75c1f9046f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Group. Thanks for the capture. VX9MRC will continue operation tonight 8 WPM 507.77 kHz, 100 watts. 73 Joe On Fri, 12 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 12-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD102-86384b82fdeb1fd; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:58:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14F2338000083; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:58:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgGz-0005Jb-My for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgGz-0005JS-9P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgGw-0005rZ-Nq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:01 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2149139bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:56:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=J4LvWJZzriZdbJTjI2JAW6Ajm3a0DB1JkAloRW70UM8=; b=KhN75YpxMQR4YZzrkvgcYlw+Go20zyojzzIGPWb0QlUcASvgZVGcYmuongeunJYbs7 DcEm/ocXNYFVWFBjjz6JrLMIsptOdueClxCIs77lrG/RTGg3/vyxJICci1AGmZvEipxy nBwLK2vZFxEULFuX5l6b28c9qoNkqNmrqWydw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mM7h0mm8az40NDkJGwBbeKDRVTigMuTFTZokWfMVu5XtBwxNc0xJF+lK45+w0lsI2J lAQQ/I4QPg0+twVxBEyAFvcdhjp7TQ9hupi90zhseWnG6g8Y63Egy2sZMjk6f+6NrW4Y wuauh4Wmhn43meB2xwqH+lRRbsmPojnOd0Uww= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.132 with SMTP id k4mr1158088bka.174.1266875812641; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:56:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:56:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221356n4f423789ua3b11369dfb4fe15@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d264.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b82fde80490 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik. Some right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-) 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and > mainland Europe as counterweight ;-) > > Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ________________________________________ > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [ > C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 > Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a > dipole? > > 73, > Chris G4OKW > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255550cec97e9f0480378259 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik.=A0 So= me right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-)

73s
Roger G3X= BM

On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobb= e <Rik= .Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
I guess the Eur= opean alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainland Europe as co= unterweight ;-)

Rik =A0ON7YD - OR7T

________________________________________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24
Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org'
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed= from
base camp below?

=A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as= a dipole?

73,
Chris G4OKW



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255550cec97e9f0480378259-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b8655d8125; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:50:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73A85380000F7; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:49:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbH9-0001se-Tl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbH9-0001sV-Im for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbH6-00039j-Lg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PAmphd056875 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:48:52 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00246 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:53:33 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:53:33 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:48:54 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b8655d50c4a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hellow, Stefan. > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km it should be approximately right. Anyway if you can use 100 m high antenna then few of 100's km you should reach. May be substantionally more. For large distances dependance of E on D changes. On the distances more then ~100 km field should have behaviour E ~ sqrt(1/D). This yelds only 10 dB attenuation if distance became 10 times more. Thus if you'll have 20 dB over noise at 100 km (if noise is 0.25 uV/m for example) then you'll have ~10 dB over noise at 1000 km. Do it if you have such an oportunity! It is very interesting. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj10.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.94]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b83a0bc3b1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:32:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 84EA438000067; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 04:32:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njr74-0008TB-9z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njr73-0008T2-V8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:29 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njr70-00018X-Sn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:31:29 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o1N9VJdu069201 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:31:25 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:31:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b44b83a0ba34ca X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 With 8 transmitting sites around the world at 10 kHz. The OMEGA navigation system. Like DECCA and LORAN the system is no longer operational. http://www.jproc.ca/hyperbolic/omega.html 73, Albert PA0A From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF041-5eee4b7438ff1f5; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:06:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 81030380002D4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:06:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcTD-0000P3-I3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcTD-0000Ou-6b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfcTB-0003TA-KJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:51 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4E05C7000094 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3E4617000095 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 0468A7000094 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:04:43 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211170444182.0468A7000094@mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:04:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b7438f97c9a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Congrats , Dom Bands a bit full these days , but always room for one more ..hi What tx system are you using ? 73 , Graham , -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dominic Baines" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: New NoV > > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD071-8b8c4b6ea147e6; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:17:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E288D380000C0; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne57c-00022A-3p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne57b-000221-Pa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:11 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne57Z-00005K-3D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:11 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17BG8ID003087 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:16:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:16:04 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002070252r24602b60n1ab5d5869350b974@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b6ea1450e56 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Gary, Thank you for your feedback. It is not easy to evaluate the noise situation. Not only varies the noise with frequency, but the bandnoise varies quite a bit from day to day. I always do my noise tests around local noon as the skywave is at a minimum. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b866916d0; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:12:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CC38838000072; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:12:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcYj-0003K3-4k for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcYi-0003Ju-QS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcYg-0004Go-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:11:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PCB6SI066095 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:11:07 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00373 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:16:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:16:06 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" In-Reply-To: <8E8D23D235D70840B6582917DF27898006935CAB@temps153538.tms-ltd.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:11:08 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: RE: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b8669134b6e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Reeves Paul wrote: > > Using a 2007 issue of ITU-R P.372-9 (latest I've got) the general figures at > 10KHz seem to be between 150-165. There are some down at 145 and a much > smaller (seasonal) variation to ~175. Just 'ballpark' figures from a browse > through the document - too much info........ Yet another 5 dB! Then we have 5 dB over noise at 1000 km (!!!) in QRSS100. In HAM practics we don't need regulary contact. Thus let's take lowest noise level. Certanly this is very rough estimations. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA082-86184b8240c72cf; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:31:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 912C7380000B5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjTfH-0008Nm-03 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjTfG-0008Nd-8I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:14 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjTfE-0007jL-Ap for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:29:14 +0000 Received: from mwmweb080 (mwmweb080.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.98]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512B413F4AE3E for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:29:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:29:04 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19GFke/YFXlTuVCGVxBAqjs98QRltiM0qVNwakofu+kZZssF8UOfnfK uPfCYUpF4u67cI6lVxhRdeMcjyV8h0ahXX4xGkUoi9uWazKRvVJLG1fU6N+HJHjt lqYt1dDppJBwALBtmF2ouhgZ5pdybYcjbmKtunL8bNA= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b8240c2425c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =C3=BCber 1000,- =C2=BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB034-86974b8ab9b03e4; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:45:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 634F838000146; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:45:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo7k-00083m-6z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo7j-00083d-N0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:15 +0000 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlo7h-000130-1O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:44:15 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAItHiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHYtkc7gkhHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="441369725" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:43:56 +0000 Message-ID: <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b8ab9af7da2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger=20 Most of those talking/dreaming about 9 kcs cannot get a signal out bey= ond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it would be FOOLISH for those= persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.=20 Have you noticed the BIG players on LF/MF are not contermplating joini= ng the Dreamers. G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Marcus et al, Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a= go myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX= but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon= . Even a few kms will be fun. Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructiv= e comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane com= ments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down= to attention seeking. 73s Roger G3XBM=20 On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrot= e: Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his view= s, we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encourag= ement. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am lo= oking forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments= like this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the= greater amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind= for an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could= be=20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger
Most of those talking/dreaming about= 9 kcs cannot=20 get a signal out beyond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it= would be=20 FOOLISH for those persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.
Have you noticed the BIG players on= LF/MF are not=20 contermplating joining the Dreamers.
G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:39=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX= experiments=20 this sunday

Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimen= ting below=20 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers= . I don't=20 expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QR= SS or WSPR=20 beacon. Even a few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a compl= ete fool=20 of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything.= Most here=20 just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psycho= logists=20 would put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM=20



On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <mark= usvester@aol.com>=20 wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his= views, we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
 
And, best of all, it's fun.<= /FONT>
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 
=
<= /DIV>
From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one= am looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments lik= e this=20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater= amateur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from= his hill=20 top and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAM= ERS face=20 his direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,> Do=20 not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>&n= bsp;=20
> G3KEV
>  .....



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3X= BM
G3XBM=20    GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CAB8A5.D9B0AEB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.214]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b8a944b24c; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:05:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C7EE538000287; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:05:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NllcY-00063Q-0w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:54 +0000 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NllcX-00063C-4B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:53 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NllcU-0008Kd-TJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:03:53 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAMkiiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHYtkc7ghhHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="451872307" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:02:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:02:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d64b8a94497065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an= extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be br= oken without the KITE,=20 Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:48 PM Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Dear LF, Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform the= group that because of much heavier winds than expected, he will not= be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also mentioned th= at the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit) will requi= re some more work. Kind regards, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinde= r.com/forecast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a str= enght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable fo= r tests. That is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 10= 0mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily= handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire.= There are several possibilities to increase the maximum antenna volta= ge, well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this= may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first= test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that= and there are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get= the chance to resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to reson= ate it in the living room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry= it in my room in the first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated wi= th 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a= DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in= this way i will be able to make a transformation of the resonated loo= p!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am excited= how the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will= try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to= spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/D= F6NM to give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander= S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave ama= teur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one= of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs= would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn'= t be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one= big town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure= =20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9= kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main= problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable= with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one shoul= d avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting= rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not= too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed speci= ally for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite an= tenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical= , does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity= 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now= we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. Wh= at is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower tim= e to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5= km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wav= e zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fa= st with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide= ' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT vo= ltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the= last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top and=20 face DOWN wind for an extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his=20 direction records could be broken without the KITE,
Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during= the listening=20 period.
 
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 12:48=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX exper= iments this=20 sunday

Dear LF,
 
Stefan DK7FC just called me on the= phone. He=20 asked me to inform the group that because of much heavier winds than= expected,=20 he will not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He=  also=20 mentioned that the output matching of his PA (a converted= SMPS=20 circuit) will require some more work.
 
Kind regards,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 27= , 2010 3:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: VLF TX experim= ents this=20 sunday becomes more probably

Dear LF group,
 
Tomorrow, the wind for= ecast is=20 excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt
It=20 is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a streng= ht of=20 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tes= ts. That=20 is the first positive news.
 
Yesterday i got such a ai= r coil. It=20 has not 85mH but even about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, jus= t about=20 38. Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximu= m voltage=20 on my single wire. There are several possibilities to increase the= maximum=20 antenna voltage, well known and applied in the high voltage power= fields but=20 this may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with= a first=20 test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-)
 = ;
That=20 coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and th= ere are=20 better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the chance= to resonate=20 that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living= room of=20 my parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the firs= t floor=20 ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower vol= tage C in=20 series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely= coupled by=20 another air coil (in this way i will be able to make a transformat= ion of the=20 resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audibl= e so i am=20 excited how the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W=20 applied;-)
 
The last problem is the PA since it is not= yet=20 available. I will try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning= but i=20 have also to spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be=20 arranged...
 
On the hill i have no internet but i will= at least=20 inform Markus/DF6NM to give those who are interested a information= =20 here...
 
I have to go now, and will inform=20 you...
 
73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von:= owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov
Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:3= 7
An:=20 rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
Betreff:=20 RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?



> when back in the mid 90's the initial re= quest for=20 a longwave amateur
> segment (what later turned out to be 13= 7kHz) was=20 discussed, one of the
> big telecom "bobo's" stated that the= y saw no=20 harm that amateurs would
> transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP= as with=20 that power one wouldn't be
> able to get any further than th= e other=20 end of the town.
> It turned out a bit different, unless you= see the=20 world as one big town ;-)

Rik, after some theoretical estim= ations=20 done i am absolutely shure
QRSS communications at few 100s km= (may be=20 more) is posible on 9 kHz.
There is lot of problems on TX side= but them=20 to be solvable. Main problem
is high voltage on the TX ANT. I= expect 100=20 - 200 kV is reachable with
some 'tricks' wellknown for power in= geneers.=20 For example one should avoid
free end of a wire with such a vol= tage. On=20 should use 'protecting rings'
on the ends. With voltage abt 100= kV seems=20 to be posible use not too high
antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well= top=20 loaded marconi designed specially for
high voltage is adequate.= Remember=20 effective height of 60m kite antenna
used in DK8KW experiment= was 30m (if=20 wire was absolutelly vertical, does
it was?). With not too high= voltage=20 and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km
was reached. Another key= problem is=20 noise level on this freq. Now we see
huge discrepancy on the no= ise level=20 got from different sourses. What is
the real noise level is not= obvious=20 now. Can it be much  lower time to
time? Experements to be= usefull.=20 Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km
experiment is described. Wa= terfall=20 background is too smooth. Where
spherics are? This is why i exp= ect RX=20 sensetivity was not as
high as posible. One should remember 4.5= km is=20 begining of the wave zone
on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5= km field=20 decreases not too fast with
distance. Another critical distance= is abt=20 100 km where 'waveguide'
propagation starts. At such distances= one shold=20 increase TX ANT voltage
only in 3 times to reach distance 10 ti= mes more.=20 Anyway Stefan's
experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope= it will=20 be not the=20 last
experiment.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB


=

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB88F.63873580-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC092-862d4b83d59a23e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B52B0380001D2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjudS-0000zy-Lb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjudS-0000zp-4d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de ([217.72.192.234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjudP-0002zo-M7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate03.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3DB13F978D0 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:16:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:16:59 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18+KzZZQ2MJWAzOwSr8KBqIzz9pEcBz69NA/0KmHR4wjs8qfWL1SHOC e4Oh4CUj2k8KwJBK/VN964VeilEH5UboNWqmY5kxl0FVy4C6d9fV6PNRsul1X1vj VtqWZSCxHvZHNXI78BCjB/WRezXiOyMMRIatm9PvsTM= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b83d59837b9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello, first I'd like to share an interesting link that I found some years before= : http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html 8,79 kHz is random choice, not with any reason - except not to got to clos= e to 9kHz of course. Horst ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=C3=BCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB051-85f14b71975339; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:11:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CD2043800022B; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NetbL-0004Kt-24 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NetbK-0004Kk-H2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:14 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NetbH-00037P-TA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:10:14 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so251502bwz.30 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:10:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=dggSechLNJNSCjdgOnFtuiRIHJn30BQuEisuIMMhzEI=; b=BBlMkb7nNUNp18w+C3vBybwQjzWhp0wN+nhOL1X3zGwzePzuk/woc1dbcj7TtOhJc4 3TdzaPzdkCD+/CCbb0ovWNqY6O51Pkrw/8g9m87Q7e/2VqbjH1W4c2jWtAzjq8JbnKGY GyT5ZHTWdSYRG8azS8NqqWcBIZkmcaC1aKRzw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=xt02DCTmTpuG6uATP7kVTTCj9W1Ss2ZkUFI/nPIpxhHAAB86ofyHnJNMvKcuxmdQiP rqykVx1jpQMoYSu+TW9kvtLQQjaJQvwAQHeUaxQcoBsLsREtpQwCkxY1ar14RDDb6ar2 VbTitR3MNUUHcn2U43/NB8rDfC4iGyOtGsgxY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.4.83 with SMTP id 19mr1052172bkq.11.1265735405397; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:10:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:10:05 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=1.169 Subject: LF: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b7197506547 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transformers used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but the design is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at input and output. Which is where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal... The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the third turn consisting just the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferrite cores with a connection at the far end. A diagram can be seen at http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 = 900 Watts. (Sanity check, a single ended design at half the Rload = (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 = 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation). Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings could have have become an auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be higher. But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply volts down to 17V. Now, plugging these values into the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 = 100 Watts max possible, - but I was seeing more power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW ? Andy www.g4jnt.com --0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transforme= rs used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?
=A0
I recently acquired some=A0big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW= out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,=A0 RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to= MRF140.=A0 It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail.=A0 The modul= es were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, but=A0the des= ign=A0is wideband(ish) with the=A0normal ferrite matching transformers at= input and output.=A0 Which is where I may be missing something - they may= not be quite so normal...
=A0
The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.=A0=A0The seco= ndary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full screened as th= ey pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn=A0has the braid cut at= the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary,=A0with the third= turn consisting just the inner conductor=A0with no braid over it.=A0 =A0= All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside the usual= single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of ferr= ite cores with a connection at the far end.=A0=A0=A0 A diagram can be seen= at http://www.g4jnt.com/pama= tch.gif=A0=A0
=A0
Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...
the impedances don't work out properly...
=A0
Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.=A0=A0=A0 From a 50V= rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 90= 0 Watts.=A0=A0=A0 (Sanity check, =A0a single ended design at half the Rloa= d=A0=3D =A0 (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calcu= lation).=A0=A0 Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute theoretical maximu= m, anyway.
=A0
BUT,=A0=A0 if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.12= 5 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I&= #39;d expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.
=A0
Has anyone met that winding configuration=A0 before?=A0=A0 Is it real= ly the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there some way the= windings could have have become an auto-transformer and=A0be giving =A01:= 4 turns ratio=A0?
If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hig= her.=A0 But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely.=A0
=A0
=A0
On=A0a quick test on the module today, running from a=A0 10A supply,= it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting and dragging= the supply volts down to 17V.=A0 Now, plugging these values into the matc= hing equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible, =A0- but=A0I= was seeing more power.=A0=A0=A0
=A0........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HO= W ?
--0015174be4d837e7b7047f2dfd50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.150]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b6975411b2; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:08:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B9274380002A6; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:08:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncewq-00047Q-OM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncewq-00047H-8g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncewp-0007Yf-7i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:12 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203130705.GDIP4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:07:05 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncewj-0008L2-EL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:07:05 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:07:04 -0000 Message-ID: <007501caa4d1$c87fa890$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqkzefwwNgpWVfVT32HYP5xXnqGvgAA84ww X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=p-K9AEuwBsxSiTMOg_8A:9 a=sUi46UdCvJ9UueMq0FoA:7 a=oibkguSbPkb3FFKjh8kHgJFfMtYA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40964b69753e6155 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Albert, I'll listen out too as I'd like a CW QSO with PA With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Albert Sent: 03 February 2010 12:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Hello Jay and others, I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, where useful. 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.137]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD082-8b914b67421725f; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:05:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 18473380000CE; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:05:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3RV-0003F0-32 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3RU-0003Er-Kf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc3RS-0001k1-Vb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:04:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W53 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:02:13 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:02:13 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2010 21:02:13.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4097A20:01CAA381] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_" Subject: LF: G4JNT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40894b67421434ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_" --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700.

Lubos, OK2BVG= , JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov= =E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregi= strovat =3D --_02cfbeee-7a03-4d0f-82db-d92d35785443_-- --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="G4JNT_503700.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAiAo4DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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AKkgAMyggEZ70UUAMP3j9aSiigD/2Q== --_3ea0aedd-884d-4785-a68a-8d226a1b330a_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI034-eac14b840d2d35; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:15:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5438138000251; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyKu-0002u6-2Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyKt-0002tx-KX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:15 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyKs-0005go-3M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:15 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223171406.ENCB10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:06 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyKg-0003fP-I3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:02 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:14:01 -0000 Message-ID: <02e301cab4ab$98272530$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <005301cab4a9$54f8e1b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Thread-Index: Acq0qXikUJITinCmSfyegYZm6vcFMwAAXmbA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=h6Bt7xb_cSVbCAdWDxQA:9 a=iFtAYpp8y67jADwk7mYA:7 a=Ubhsba6VqSdaxDQIc2OjAyO0KVYA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=EjRqahn9MYjy1mLw:21 a=UWEy_xRV05pidD32:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=bPV2uaBrCK0c115Nj8QA:9 a=61GY4cdhVTJkD2R6lawA:7 a=Fb0rIxbRO-v5xq0oywVAwXy0JnkA:4 a=MKEXiCd-gXR-sgfU:21 a=SMpsrT1ZfSnvXOj3:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: RE: TOY SALE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b840d1e0cd6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got one in the garage, and a SPM3 and SPM19. I have also the PM60 (RIP Laurie.) My Racal Sig gen has gone unlocked pll on me and I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can implement the ideas from Alan as to how I may resurrect it (the XYL won't let me perform surgery on the kitchen table :-( ) Actually all my JRC Rxs will happily tune down to around 1khz so I'm ok on that front and the old 515 and 505 are v sensitive at VLF. With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 16:58 To: rsgb Subject: LF: TOY SALE Appliance Operator TOY for sale. Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20 kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fumble about with a suitable antenna. mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Got one in the= garage, and a SPM3 and SPM19.  I have also the PM60  (RIP Laurie.)  

 

My Racal Sig ge= n has gone unlocked pll on me and I’m waiting for the weather to warm up so I can implement= the ideas from Alan as to how I may resurrect it (the XYL won’t let= me perform surgery on the kitchen table L 

Actually all my= JRC Rxs will happily tune down to around 1khz so I’m ok on that front and the old 515 and= 505 are v sensitive at VLF.

 

 

With best regards=

  =

Jim

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal = hamilton
Sent: 23 February 2010= 16:58
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: TOY SALE

 

Appliance Operator TOY for sale.=

Model W & G LD30 range 200 Hz - 20= kHz would do nicely for 9 kHz Sender/Receiver, just attach it to a big audio amp, then fum= ble about with a suitable antenna.

mal/g3kev

 

------=_NextPart_000_02E4_01CAB4AB.98272530-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.14]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI033-eac04b744778d7; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:07:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 59A1B3800023C; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdR8-0000uL-So for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdR8-0000uC-Bx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfdR6-000437-PN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:46 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BI6Z2p013017 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:06:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:36 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410e4b7447761bf5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, Thank you all. Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. I am not that desperate yet. These items are advertised as low cost.... I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. However these are also hard to find. I will look into it a bit further. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF012-8bca4b83cad827c; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC651380000C5; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nx-Tq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtvD-0000nn-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: from web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.132]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njtv9-0002fz-O6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:27 +0000 Received: (qmail 75919 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266928277; bh=Wv6IrZMCXaXDz5SrTMSCcyWBfL4oi2LHCAlp56YO8BY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Qx8PC0NIFjSzhFFkcQWJuH7Xm1FGSj6wj22WhRmM5PHF55oC8WMiDSRR56Wf5LgJktc2WBTEk6lNeo3U30K9JoC2ycxG4BjQzBtjyZ2jXOXUwmU47H35XCO4vIsAJIvvqXpMDt7TkoWMyLkX9TxJG78wvCdsEWA0e7exxDmE61U= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kX8t1rBeJeNAtM0pTlHhHcHABKN34ZDg0Q7NaaQOMCeZiQhDfnDSsXfs0At92dOF2X/ENtfJzZcvZthTYsb1T7OcpP0YIizTIdZ9rhYJAG8ygXn0zW0EXqofg5xTgQ/9R2BS8hC8f8ODoKFRxWakFMT7UXCI5aopdoMlVZp58/k=; Message-ID: <757273.75752.qm@web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: wIo88hcVM1mGMzUzXAiEUklaJA6zz8_gNGc3gJKCaDIGPUqfkbck.Q5RfFT_9YDvLKLcueAqZYdkPbWbjq_2aHpIzOcod7WvduwO5HJ6rqyNOxgTrugf4e_QbQbeKngE2U4mxCLs4KJlKINzZQXbuqayE_Uou_WAIKhfKgUd1FaB56HvQDPsOvClmx6Jg4bOfc4BHQ5z4X3fOVwEQOdILoeH13XOHIORNjV68F7.vzdg.y_jlD5LqUrxsMuHUpx9m1efK1szNAVStDUBGqz9ssAu4S_yPdvS62AMy1TDGDLMmbhtvyieIyE1eqqa_BaMDX2t Received: from [81.131.8.179] by web86507.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:31:17 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m222.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4b83cad63547 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I worry that this= will form a lossy capacitor because the dielectric a think film of ali ox= ide will break down in places at this voltage and also there is the inknow= n of the contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can be= a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as a capacitor in= an HV pulse generator many years ago and though the spec is 6kV it certai= nly survived 15kV with no burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed= this format at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either= of us did any tests. I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative old TV EHT type?? Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a lot less to carry= if you are operating "portable" Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > Rik, Alan,=20 > =20 > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > vertical loop by using the ground.=20 > =20 > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get proper > C (to ground), especially when talking about high voltages > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and easy to > adjust/modify... > =20 > Stefan >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 00:12 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =20 > what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna > base to ground ? > It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to > 100 and at the same time transform the high loss resistance > (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value. > Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, > so power should be more modest than 780 Watt. > A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or > similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m > you would 10 to 100m cable. > =20 > 73, Rik > =20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 > Yep Rik > =20 > So how do I load it? > =20 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the > coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while the > wire held out before melting.=20 > =20 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =20 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of > the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =20 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on this > reflector about this subject but I am looking for a > practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, > ideas-wise.=20 >=20 > If I can load it with any of the power levels above there > are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like > G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km > away.=20 > =20 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule > fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not > the answer. > =20 > So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: Rik Strobbe > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Pete, > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance > of 1345 Ohm. > =A0=A0=A0 So even if the coil doen't get hot by > the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power. > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > =A0=A0=A0 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > ________________________________ >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > =A0=A0=A0 Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 > 19:19 > =A0=A0=A0 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > Hi Group > =20 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my > inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio > amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored > former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by > about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty > hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =20 > =20 > =A0=20 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 From: James Cowburn > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > =A0=A0=A0 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 All we need is a wire strung between K2 > and Everest summits and fed from > =A0=A0=A0 base camp below? > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 -----Original Message----- > =A0=A0=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > ] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > =A0=A0=A0 Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > =A0=A0=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 No license is required in the US below > 9kHz. > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 I agree with Mal its very difficult to > radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > =A0=A0=A0 alone 9kHz! > =A0=A0=A0 --=20 > =A0=A0=A0 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 > =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN > MELIA > > > =A0=A0=A0 wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it > is not allowed. You probably need to > =A0=A0=A0 contact Andy G4JNT for details he did > approach the regulator at one time > =A0=A0=A0 maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing > his tests the answer as I remember > =A0=A0=A0 was:- > =A0=A0=A0 > Frequencies below 10kHz are not > allocated by International Treaty but we > =A0=A0=A0 control all frequencies between DC and > gamma rays, and no we will not be > =A0=A0=A0 issuing any licences for that region. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > I believe that was the > RadioCommunications Agency things may be different > =A0=A0=A0 now with Ofcomm. The best person to know > whether an approach would be > =A0=A0=A0 worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who > nursed the 500k stuff through. > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > Alan G3NYK > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, > Stefan_Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 > > wrote: > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > =A0=A0=A0 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, > 2010, 11:32 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Ok Roger, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And do you know if f<9kHz is > free for other countries in > =A0=A0=A0 >> europe as > =A0=A0=A0 >> well? What about the UK? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> If such a grounded dipole is > best, than it is easy to build > =A0=A0=A0 >> a big > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna without the problems we > have on LF (getting the > =A0=A0=A0 >> wire high above > =A0=A0=A0 >> ground). So we also could try > big/long antennas. Waht do > =A0=A0=A0 >> you mean with > =A0=A0=A0 >> amateur levels? Power range is > clear, something arround > =A0=A0=A0 >> 500W+-6dB. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> the antenna? Sure, if you think > about building an antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the > =A0=A0=A0 >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very > effective but what about > =A0=A0=A0 >> 2x500m in a > =A0=A0=A0 >> forrest, perhaps with the > loading coils (which will be on a > =A0=A0=A0 >> ferrite > =A0=A0=A0 >> toroid i think) mounted 300m > apart from the center? That > =A0=A0=A0 >> could be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting and easy to try. No > tower, no earth radials, > =A0=A0=A0 >> just 2 wires > =A0=A0=A0 >> hung up on some trees and > measured the impedance at the > =A0=A0=A0 >> feed point, > =A0=A0=A0 >> that would be a first step. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> This antenna will still be bad > but what we are doing -on LF > =A0=A0=A0 >> it is the > =A0=A0=A0 >> same- is beeing fascinated to > reach a good distance and > =A0=A0=A0 >> make some > =A0=A0=A0 >> contacts at very low > frequencies, although it would be much > =A0=A0=A0 >> easier on > =A0=A0=A0 >> 40/80m... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> And so, if one would reach 50km > with such a short dipole, > =A0=A0=A0 >> the > =A0=A0=A0 >> fascination would be enormous, > isn't it? ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried > such experiments as well? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> With the ground wave, one could > reach the whole europe, i > =A0=A0=A0 >> expect. But > =A0=A0=A0 >> that are dreams... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Stefan/DK7FC > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb > Roger Lapthorn: > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0At this > frequency, widely spaced, grounded > =A0=A0=A0 >> electrode pairs are > =A0=A0=A0 >> probably the best > "antenna".=A0 There are > =A0=A0=A0 >> references to how these work > in > =A0=A0=A0 >> the literature (for example > NATO AGAARD papers from the > =A0=A0=A0 >> 1960s, > =A0=A0=A0 >> available on the internet I > believe) and on one of the > =A0=A0=A0 >> German ham sites > =A0=A0=A0 >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0 . > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Don't expect > great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > =A0=A0=A0 >> aim with modern > =A0=A0=A0 >> signal processing technology > and reasonable (amateur > =A0=A0=A0 >> levels) available > =A0=A0=A0 >> power. Project Sanguine > achieved worldwide coverage to > =A0=A0=A0 >> submarines at > =A0=A0=A0 >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used > enormous power and antennas > =A0=A0=A0 >> stretching for > =A0=A0=A0 >> 100s of kms. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A073s > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Roger G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A02010/2/22 > Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> > > > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0Hello Horst, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> That sounds really nice. If it > would be easy to find some > =A0=A0=A0 >> motivated OMs > =A0=A0=A0 >> in the near field (31km) ;-), > that would be an interesting > =A0=A0=A0 >> field to > =A0=A0=A0 >> test. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Yesterday i have thought about > possible antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> configurations for that > =A0=A0=A0 >> range and got the idea that one > could use a forrest as an > =A0=A0=A0 >> antenna > =A0=A0=A0 >> tower. There, you could hang up > 100s meters of wire, in > =A0=A0=A0 >> series and in > =A0=A0=A0 >> parallel. You do not need to > have that area beside your > =A0=A0=A0 >> house. Nobody > =A0=A0=A0 >> will see the wire and nobody > will care about it. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Since summer 2007 i have a > horizontal loop antenna mounted > =A0=A0=A0 >> in some > =A0=A0=A0 >> trees on my hill with excellent > results on all HF bands and > =A0=A0=A0 >> also 160m. > =A0=A0=A0 >> The loop has 130m and is > mounted up to 12m above ground. > =A0=A0=A0 >> Perfect > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching from 160m to 10m with > my symmetric tuner. I even > =A0=A0=A0 >> tried > =A0=A0=A0 >> matching on 2200m without a > problem but with bad ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> results, of > =A0=A0=A0 >> course. But if one would try 2x > 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > =A0=A0=A0 >> would be > =A0=A0=A0 >> interesting... > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS > and thus a little far i > =A0=A0=A0 >> think ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> What is your RX antenna and > have you already catched some > =A0=A0=A0 >> commercial > =A0=A0=A0 >> VLF stations in that range? Are > there some? > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> 73, Stefan > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> PS: One can be sure that there > will never be SSB operation > =A0=A0=A0 >> ;-) > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing > on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hallo Stefan, > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> there was a notice in > Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > =A0=A0=A0 >> DL the range > =A0=A0=A0 >> <9kHz is free. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> I could not believe that so I > asked the BNetzA and after a > =A0=A0=A0 >> while I got > =A0=A0=A0 >> a letter which confirmed that. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> So there nothing you've got to > do for getting a > =A0=A0=A0 >> licence. You do not > =A0=A0=A0 >> need one. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> There is no limitation of > technical parameters like > =A0=A0=A0 >> bandwith or power. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Hard to believe in german, but > obviously true. > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> Horst > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > ___________________________________________________________ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber > 1000,- =BF sparen! > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0 =A0=A0=A0http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >>=A0=A0=A0http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> G3XBM=A0 =A0 GQRP > 1678=A0 =A0 =A0 ISWL > =A0=A0=A0 >> G11088 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> -- > =A0=A0=A0 >> ---------------------------- > =A0=A0=A0 >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > =A0=A0=A0 >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der > Universit=E4t > =A0=A0=A0 >> Heidelberg > =A0=A0=A0 >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > =A0=A0=A0 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >=20 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > =A0=A0=A0 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 >> > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0 > > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 > =A0=A0=A0=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.134]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b719e8b362; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:42:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B1BF83800015A; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:42:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Neu5X-0004T6-OZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; 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format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40864b719e887bf4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks, Victor! 73 Andrey > Hello all, > > received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr > transmissions (15% tx) > > 73 > > Victor > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF084-5f014b7f0b1523f; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:05:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 33E7F38000075; 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bh=RQkJZioN19x5BA7YzK86Y19fH4XhBXiAZ3BxN1U1pyU=; b=k88mRtldv2k2/c2kvp+P9HiBzCcUUsSfc8dUoLYZwzSlm2lYQZutl8TaholTlUNdQL /9HFysWKiT+U90eaL3lbAQZG4p7nnHZBIrO9qLHbgsfBdogWq72gWfR5VnFGcGQzJvcl KJPK4V1ecAClATiI/TOg0PtlVSTKub0NnxDgM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:x-goomoji-body:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=NZclM0RCiiqEP+G9B3sVLG16Uqpsl6CFoiIbvgCxKWCjgWtYdeTHCvnz8Y/X0dU4bR TkTDWeXAU2egieibXRW+mXh68hcwybNbTC270DyP0mq8iwAkULWZNhemfZNIWPdJdgQE fq/7XyKzeix5pD8F4dtprJXDk3kFmOXK/kLqQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.6.203 with SMTP id a11mr1675126bka.33.1265372913264; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:28:33 -0800 (PST) X-Goomoji-Body: true Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:28:33 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.88,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: CQ Test Content-Type: multipart/related; 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Its all a bit quiet
=A0
=A0
--0015175884b600e9f8047ed99744-- --0015175884b600e9fa047ed99745 Content-Type: image/gif; name="1B2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 1B2@goomoji.gmail Content-ID: <1B2@goomoji.gmail> R0lGODlhEAAMAKIGAOoDA4oAAf/v7wAAAP9YWP/IyAAAAAAAACH5BAEAAAYALAAAAAAQAAwAAAM9 SLbU3ssQ4IS91oEAgChgGHaBEQRCIILqGRHfIMqF8sb0QNvMt4Y8ie9XiwgLqlAyCGOdksUbERSU PK6RBAA7 --0015175884b600e9fa047ed99745-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b7990bb278; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E236738000201; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:21:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ym-0003ty-KH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ym-0003tp-AR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh5Yi-0003VB-Ch for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1FIKLak019709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0330 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> Message-ID: References: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: 137 khz canada Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b7990b96d63 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Vern, Group. Try: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf /$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf 73 Joe VO1NA On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, vernjac@mts.net wrote: > Can anyone tell me where I can find the official notification that the 2200 metre band is now available to Canadian Amateurs > > Tks Vern Ve4XC > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b7a41ff165; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:58:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5A0D8380003A4; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:58:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhHMK-0004e4-TX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhHMK-0004dv-Dp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s6.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhHMJ-0006w2-1W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:56:36 +0000 Received: from COL122-W43 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s6.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:55:25 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:55:25 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2010 06:55:25.0442 (UTC) FILETIME=[04271E20:01CAAED5] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_" Subject: LF: XKO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55086 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b7a41fe347a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_" --_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There were strange propagations last night. I saw only a traces of XGJ and= XKO signals whole night (but F1AFJ saw nice signals). My best snapshot wa= s taken about 40 minutes after sunrise in OK. Compare with Jean-Pierre=B4s= grabber! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_09a26db1-a1a3-40d9-bbb5-6ecbd617d0f8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
There were strange propagations last night. I saw only a trac= es of XGJ and XKO signals whole night (but F1AFJ saw nice signals). My bes= t snapshot was taken about 40 minutes after sunrise in OK. Compare with Je= an-Pierre=B4s grabber!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
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3R4zEwJfJ+4Svt2xgUAZ4kdQQrEA9gabRUizyqhQSNsPG3PFAEdFTiSAxkNCFfsy5/qaKAIKXJIx niiigBKKKKACpbZQ1wgYAgnoaKKAEuAFncAYAPQVGKKKAJVuplPEhPb5uf51GSWOTj8BiiigBKMk 96KKAHj7jDA/KmUUUAFFFFAAST1NFFFABRRRQBdsI0dJC6BiOmRVQkq5Kkgg8EUUUAK80kv+skd8 f3mJpu5gu0MdvpniiigBUdo3DoxVh0Ip008lxJvlbc3TNFFAEdFFFABRRRQBLbk/aIwCRlgDg4rT 1nMJjRWYqecOxf8AnmiigDHooooAXcdu3Jx6dqSiigBS7MACxIHQUUUUAf/Z --_2525161d-3d3e-4fe9-9f6a-238963f1aed2_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.93]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b731ccd2fa; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:53:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 53BA4380002EA; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:53:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfJXS-00074b-2v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfJXR-00074S-O8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:57 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s4.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.14]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfJXP-0004zf-Db for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:51:57 +0000 Received: from COL122-W63 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s4.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:51:48 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:51:48 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2010 20:51:48.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD2977F0:01CAAA92] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_" Subject: LF: CW_QSO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605d4b731ccb492d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I improve my internet connection line between my hamshack and remote recei= ving station. I am happy that I am able to hear normal CW sound yet, not= only see pictures of QRSS. I have just been listening the cw QSO PA0LCE= (559) and EI0CF (579).=20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I improve my internet connection line between my hamshack and= remote receiving station. I am happy that I am able to hear normal CW sou= nd yet, not only see pictures of QRSS. I have just been listening the cw= QSO PA0LCE (559) and EI0CF (579).

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zd= arma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od spole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregistrovat =3D --_c101d1e2-0071-493c-a472-d4b0e1b41842_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.218]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF021-8bcd4b6de60b363; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:58:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B55BF3800016B; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndsef-0006Q4-Vl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndsef-0006Pv-Hh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndsed-00077B-Hq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:29 +0000 Received: (qmail 34444 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2010 21:57:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1265493441; bh=Lj1lB3Xk9vCEi3ugvNwqCjZRvxljm8sIh6xLh7Ptmdw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AvFPBbZo9Tg6mo/1s3rxP4iyLayC6eaWzLgkhKfc65vRDyJEYmJkfoQfklLcQN5CASN5xhjz8WkdcfM+CaurH6yg2tYeok94KbWNm7x9teRCBQ+se4BTY0S9SGIMpOMiiMfdyupDSGoAtwzjUYPbS9LIzeQsMzydc+A1eE0+ITo= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HwL0AsfVL5fSTequFAQ1o2kc9Dj8at3tFJnF5hgF9R3QIbPH4UcZvc4STFZKnF4ygKJyeRYApIaDoEINL3o0FMOvmBJp0rPwuDo3mNfpa9bui71rtG52naAz7NfH3b9GpNigyAWz8pI3iK+lq4Z650aibGcBeQIL2vlaMOUAMqM=; Message-ID: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: CAkOdxIVM1lsM.0Fx8A4kwMC4mTOgBvOyE2nlE.u23vLogvvcEouiNy2XzDLdcdMNapaXAn5r0e7xK_jSL9qzOqrhVd_ICaiDBgHo6klZScCyZJ51IQnotDyHtc9Vkrl_2mYaMZBzIpj33gbWIdWscMhjfCTDoiL1hjeAAFALTwQK3gz17Z_4tFOez0hFtKYlB.pnerSHO3b2RcL7D3m1zkjgRpw1T4VGi3lZ7lB0HM1M8z5CWSGh_FBLDdoA61WB1.Ow3Q2epCzzUw8XpV7u3L8GnETHYdprnO0byyZ5fgz7nltU.i3d1HEWbtlUYxqddMUuLNM9clgSMgiqOnas1FOQldC9kVNMpE- Received: from [81.131.21.206] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:57:20 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:57:20 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40da4b6de609585e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan and Roelof, I would discount that until you have proved it for= yourself. Unfortunately there are a lot of "urban myths" about LF aerials= propagated by those who dont know how they work. There are a lot of varia= bles and the noise profiles are almost unique to each installation. I am= sure one of you will do it "properly" soon and advise us the outcome. Gro= unding the mast(or not), connecting a ground to the feeder, where does the= feeder run with respect to the mast, what are the "standard signal" stren= gths (DCF39 ?) at different heights and how does the noise level vary.....= ..are all possible differences. Isn't LF fun :-)) so much to experiment wi= th. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK --- On Sat, 6/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: LF: active ant on metallic mast > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Saturday, 6 February, 2010, 16:46 > Hi Roelof, LF, > =20 > Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting > Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it > assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not > optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application > is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, > the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the > environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i > assume), compared to the active element (gate of the FET). > Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources? > I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use > are comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our > experiences :-) > =20 > A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is > used, since in a coax application there remains a high C of > the ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is > used (since the active element has just a few pF to the far > field). That special question is: What will happen, when the > case/ground electrode becomes small against the active > element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will > there be a change in the optimal C of the active element to > the far field? I assume, then, one has to define an optimal > C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short > dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active > antenna that is directly placed on the ground with a almost > ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of > the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm > problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? > =20 > On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the > active antenna mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a > wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be > better when increasing the active element since signals were > weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was > still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but > rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the > hight above gnd? > =20 > I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going > through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be > very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no > trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was > S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even > without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be > compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of course. > =20 > What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think > will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against > the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C for > both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like > as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 > =20 > Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable > antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. > That will be interesting to play with ;-) > =20 > 73!! Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Stefan, >=20 > Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active > whip won't work=20 > well on a metalic mast. > I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to > lack of a=20 > suitable mast. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD011-8b744b82c005270; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:33:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6D53B38000088; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:33:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc9D-00032R-Iq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc9D-00032I-2K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njc9A-0003dl-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:43 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1893667bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=BFmwGAMnTVhn7JLBVO2Betwxt0mactOFoBKp4scEuwg=; b=JsFxWC6XcPfHDidDneyt60BrKHqk0+/wPulASdYyjXc4NCau90Ko7lg/u4cGaf/OQZ O8fK14AHliKyryB5XsqxzbZUu0tHJmKSiyKjplBWRQLYbelGYiePefNB6EeX/EpX6Z38 x95ciEHAVM14JgULnoVseEnIFRcQeYceR5Gl4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=W+Cs8lI6KyZloEnBxM4yPNPNhMctG+s/kMkf5nfh7FbbFFbPiYa1jbMtaIl/+sO3Ko p1VoIVAT5QPu14q7NIpTOPtEWJH8kVF+pwvIieD/7B9gHGuYulfaSW1LLgBT9BlzpoZ4 0xjNeewJIT7Kc41yImBSXtwXRzSaTQPhta4B0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.137.1 with SMTP id u1mr900616bkt.151.1266859954121; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:32:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d284.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4b82c0025c47 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce in Cook Strait. :-) I think the chances of this working are All Black. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:24, Chris Trayner wrote: > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a > dipole? > > 73, > Chris G4OKW > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce= in Cook Strait. :-)

I think the chances of this working are All= Black.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22= February 2010 17:24, Chris Trayner <C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fe= d from
base camp below?

=A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Islan= d as a dipole?

73,
Chris G4OKW






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015173fe84c8bada1048033d1a5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-db07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB071-85f34b708709181; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:50:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 40B6B38000251; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebOf-0001ak-6a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebOe-0001ab-PX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:56 +0000 Received: from qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.40]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebOc-0004UO-EV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:56 +0000 Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87]) by qmta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fZ1l1d00B1swQuc54ZjnKl; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:43:47 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fZlD1d00H2DDHkk3bZlEcR; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:45:14 +0000 Message-ID: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:41:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b7087074c7b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wonder if the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple mat= ter to trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream..= . Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave G3WCB=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure Dear LF, Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is= an announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services.=20 http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/=20 LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran closure Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here.= Both ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really sh= utting down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on,= probably because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket see= m to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wonder if the loran sights will= be up for=20 sale. Should be a simple matter to trim the loading coil for resonance= at 137=20 kHz. One can dream...
 
Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2<= /FONT>
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave G3WCB
Sent: Monday, February 08, 20= 10 4:32=20 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Loran closur= e

Dear=20 LF,
 
Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site,= where there is an=20 announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. 
 
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ 
 
LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK&n= bsp;=20 :-(
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB IO91RM
-----Original Message-----
From:= owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Mar= kus=20 Vester
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Loran=20 closure

Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good= traces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it= looks like=20 the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast=20 chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian= =20 participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as= 9960 has=20 not appeared with 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8DD.9C4F9360-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.21]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA082-b5314b82b01fd8; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:26:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 86D5E3800011C; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb5v-0002CM-TE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb5v-0002CC-Gz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njb5s-00031I-V0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1MGPsvE004967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1MGPsEC004964 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:54 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41154b82b01963a4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I've done some tests on VLF also, like many others on this group. For antennas i've used a 1.5m x 2.5m 3-turn loop, a 4mx14m 1-turn loop, and coupling to external structures (i won't disscuss this bit here :). Using the third antenna i can receive my vlf beacon abt 750m from here. The power was abt. 2W from a TDA2030: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/20100203/vlfcapt3747.jpg The receiving antenna was a 100turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 90cm. This loop was tuned to resonance and amplified. Using the 4x14m loop and abt. 40w from a TDA1562 i can receive it from 930m: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/capt0706082213.jpg The receiving antenna was a 50turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 80cm. This loop was connected to the amplifier virtual ground (broadband design like "easyloop"). If i remember correctly i could receive 40W into the 1.5x2.5m 3-turn loop at about 500m. Unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to play with e-field antennas, which should be much more efficient. I've noted that for b-field antennas nearby installations (power lines, phone lines etc) can carry the vlf signal far away (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b777deb27f; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:36:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFA7638000280; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:36:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgWCi-0000h4-Gh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgWCh-0000gv-Tf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:31 +0000 Received: from web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.77]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgWCe-0001mN-TD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:35:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 160 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2010 04:35:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266122121; bh=97WKKCv20qhQOWhFId2D51uyic3p3qJKmDKqIuuABx4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0zeaxf8YLWz9nM4tlc/PfmdKdjCYchJhm0PoR2c8HGChiLHw8bKUYaickv9QbRGUZbtKki5eqdj4YJN70oISIC4Qlsa3jmzfSdfb0uVkIftPVhL5uMYA/p4+GILFNlY03Jwki1H/YGcolMSpBd88OmlaAk9ErtZ45qKrR+ZkPSg= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Iu1b/RmcB/wUXKKHRAUVOlwrrcmC42OXvwdjYh24Y5KvixfOF2i66buyQUaK44zHld3KmacS2ieUWNHVVE3K9mKyHu+DM3fWJqD2njPN3Yp5SnOMqGY834hro84GEzQ4IGSmLeyAwt2V/mVCoxxl2C6TfINl00fcXVC2ozKihpA=; Message-ID: <228790.97819.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: hWFBEtYVM1kptkh4ki9WTv7MpBAHWiHQLBM5BK.b18tdIoRFuatEXm3_xkwCSX.mbyr.LkYBuJJUz33JRvNm507s9FDwFf8npGsO8OQx.3tCGCcpMYs6bGE3QaoJ_guzoIIce1xVJwX39URqvrWt3BQQlNxhZMTPOJQO5JJc5Xvi7NIWHGnjN8khaNP00S47wsVsOylzBPmIB6kl7TUobaXXipJobvVVB_2pVImp.1xVn2rix6UqxbzHquzVktHn4kSzSXmS4fy444g_7EZg2.f6nA58yHq1dDKcSTM- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:35:21 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:35:21 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: 600 meter group , Part-15 Yahoo , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: I'm proud of this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d268.2 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b777de95317 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Greetings all; and best wishes:: To some this may be trivial; but to myself, it is something I have tried for over 2 years, and tonight the propagation was great, and I was able to decode " DCF77 " with MultiPSK Clock. The signal peaked at S-6, solid copy. I made a recording of the signal, but it had=20 began to fade and was showing signs of multipath. I also have a=20 screen shot of the decode. Both can be acessed at ::: http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ Does anyone know if DCF77 will confirm receptions by QSL card ?? I still have not decoded HGB yet, and time is running out for it. 73 All::: =20 Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.218]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI012-eab74b6b349d2a; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A2BF380001AB; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8ja-0006S2-Ke for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8ja-0006Rt-9F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd8jY-00047b-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from COL122-W48 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:21 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:55:22 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 20:55:21.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[5DA43070:01CAA5DC] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_" Subject: LF: PE5T X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6b34973b51 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_" --_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There is a nice signal from PE5T on cw. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_f914028c-b850-4b9d-83b7-b3793dfb2224_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
There is a nice signal from PE5T on cw.

Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS

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C1W2tYIrq4EKyugGW/dk8+nI/Hiub8C2Nlqniq20/UULWtyrI2HK4wNw5H0/WsF7meSFYnnkaNeQ jOSBxjp9KYjtG4dGKsDkEHBFVChKFJ0+bV317X/yE5Ju9j2DTfD3g37Vq1vrDWa/Y9QaO2zP5QZW UFVOMZxz19DViaXwDca3p9uh0hoSJllSOHahbAwS2OMY4Oec/SvGJZpJ5WlmkaSRjlmY5Jplc7wE pT55VJbfItVbR5bI9k1rVvAEOkX1lbrpf2mWBlhe2s9wRucHftznIrB+IVvoFv4d0ZdM+xfbP+Wz W4UM3yDJYD3/AKV5zRVUcAqTTU27O+r3CpVc3dpHoPwui0W5uNRh1eK1kdY1ltxMik5Gc4JH0rnP Cl1FF4202Z4EaKS6CNHj5QrnafyDfpWDTo5HikWSN2R1OQynBH410ex96Tv8X4Ec2x7fJpHhCPXd X064tbGEPaI8CMoA37W3GNsfToTiqa6Ppsvh7wpfCJWuS9rDPyG/dnIb5SDt5PJ4+vFeQSXMsqwh 3JMK7IznkDJOPzJqSDUL2AEQ3MyEqEyrnO0HOB7ZrmWCkrfvH/SsVzrse0rbeD7PXNQglOlx2hto HhB248zLgkHHJ4Hc9PevELiFre4khYgsjFSVOQcelOnuGnWNSAqRrtVVzgckn9TUNb4fDuje8m72 38iZSv0PcLTS/Bp0jS9R1iHT4pprKIn7RckAfL0VAf6V5t4/k0qTxXM2jG3Np5ac2wAQtjnGK5pn ZyC7M2AAMnOAO1IcZ46fyrLD4N0qjqOblfvsi51VKKikkegfDKy0nVI9asNVMbRyRRSCN5fLyFY5 O7jGMitfxjpHhHT/AAZe/wBiLYvciSNldJ/NkC7sHkk4GRj868oBK9CRxjijOM47054Scq6q+0aX boCqJQ5eVep6X8MrTTdR0LW7XUrWB41eOXzJDtJwGOM98EDj/aNbUp0OfQPDWuXNvpZlklgiuTJs ChAGDAA8DH+eleNKzKcqSD6g0pdiu0sSvpn/AD6mlUwbnUc+dr/hrCU7K1j3f7N4EsLkwGPQUl3E bGIlYk5IHOQvX8OBXhU6us8iyKFcMQwAAwc+g4qOlZmdizMWY8kk5Jq8JhPq97ycr9x1avtLaJW7 HpM9ppV98H4NQuRCupW4MULBsHb5nTHqQP515ujtG6upIZTkEdQabRWtKk6d7u93f08jNu56N8UL XS4o9LvbBYzNfKZZ3zliQqgfQe1ec09pXeNY2YlVJYAnucZ/kKaMBhuBI7gHFOjTdOCi3cG7sSii itRBRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQArEHBAxxg0lFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFOjKCVTICUz 8wHXFFFADaKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAp7ybwi7QAoxx396KKAGUUUUAFFFFABRRRQB//9k= --_194426c5-9042-4aa0-b426-7788f067701b_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.11]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b865dd696; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:24:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8728838000088; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbo0-0002DG-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbo0-0002D7-AL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkbnx-0003Yl-TX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:56 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4439851bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:22:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=nTxOZr1HUCstU+icVvUmdhXRat5KGzxl4o4LWPpiR+8=; b=DKG90ZvYl8Ur2of1cCLZ815ViyOV5cMtqEYDCoP23cXtQN4queyn/kIacnQvHVy+LT miQBC5+niF1X94YPqsE0hx+D1H9XnO/VzLWJIjhXR85/LTrAvGpwcd6pKtAPeCory38g p522Muo35IIKYjAsJH6V7tbNqfBNVk3Xdyx90= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lxhUPgkS+lK3yu7FbbL+XhW06TnpMCVHpMTbhB9x4gUQ1YGAVbccvFUj2sBAH46MJT k9ghQs7XAD4bqnREjWOX/BcOhylvOS2VFJ1N6kJkn3dw9Z0nsibTK/XXv/7+Di54ymQM iDzCmcfzaHi6Clp2AEJtlsafq/O72+h+Jq/qQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.16.194 with SMTP id p2mr645334bka.32.1267096967105; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:22:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:22:47 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d298.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410b4b865dc9789e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous to start with. In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of noise from such a beast To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz isotropic antenna : At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = 88*10^6 m^2 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwidth Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just about detect the signal. A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long, so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power levels quoted. Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz bandwidth become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't even higher these days than those curves state. Does anyone have access to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ? So I'm afraid 9kHz communication at power levels we could generate domestically is really not all that easy. When I applied for the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth. That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic timescales - probably at no more than a few km Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > Hellow, Stefan. > > > If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be > > reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz > > With such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be > recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be > very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas > about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=100 km > it should be approximately right. > > --00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio En= gineers" , at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given= as being in the in the range 155 to 175 dB kToB.=A0=A0 This will have ris= en over the intervening years due to the proliferation of industrial /=A0d= omestic electrical junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shou= ldn't be outrageous to start with.
=A0
In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB =3D -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi= antenna.=A0=A0Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW= =A0of noise=A0from such a beast
=A0
To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of= a 9kHz isotropic antenna=A0:
At 9kHz, lambda =3D 33333m,=A0=A0 G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2,=A0=A0 G =3D= =A01,=A0 =A0so=A0 A =3D=A0 88*10^6=A0 m^2
=A0
1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in=A0this aperture=A0means no= ise density Nd =3D is=A0 1.1E-11 W/m^2
Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQRT(Nd. 377)
=3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,=A0=A0=A0 or 65uV/=A0(ROOT Hz)
=A0
So your 2.5uV/m is now 28dB below the external noise in a 1Hz bandwid= th
=A0
Now, if you go to a 1mHz bandwidth and use QRSS .001, you will just= about detect the signal.=A0=A0 A callsign is, say, 50 dot symbols long,= so expect to take about 14 hours to send your callsign at teh power level= s quoted.
=A0
Now, if you increase your Tx power by 30dB, communication in 1Hz band= width become feasible, always assuming atmospheric noise levels aren't= even higher these days than those curves state.=A0=A0 Does anyone have ac= cess to a later set of atmospheric noise measurements ?=A0=A0=A0
=A0
So I'm afraid 9kHz communication=A0at power levels we could gener= ate domestically is really not all that easy.=A0=A0=A0 When I applied for= the unsucessful NoV a few yerars ago, I had intended from the start using= a round loop, and coherent signalling in probably 0.01Hz bandwidth.=A0=A0= That would allow soundcard users to receive directly in more realistic ti= mescales - probably at no more than a few km
=A0
On 25 February 2010 17:53, Alexander S. Yurkov= <fitec@omskcit= y.com> wrote:
Hellow, Stefan.

> If that calculation is reasonably correct, what= distance could be
> reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz

With= such a condition you'll get about 2.5 uV/m at 100 km. Seems it can be=
recievid. If there is no atmospheric and industrial noise it should be
= very strong signal. But all depends on noise on 9 kHz. I have no ideas
= about noise on 9 kHz. I neglet ionosphere in estimations. But at D=3D100= km
it should be approximately right.

--00032555abea9ecb9104806b0026-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.30]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE074-5ebd4b6dae4f114; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:00:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E3DE13800022F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:00:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndowc-0005U6-KS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndowc-0005Tx-68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdowZ-0005jR-Nc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:46 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o16HxbUB004257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0330 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> Message-ID: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411e4b6dae4d03d8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, Scott Tilley wrote: > Joe, What are you up to now? Hi Scott, I'm hoping you can send me some of your art work for a VX9 QSL card... you know --the one with the X as a cross-bones and the Newfoundland Pirate motif! Saw a real cat-o-nine tails in the museum last week, but nobody at Industry Canada seems to have a use for it yet :-) > VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: >> Has VE finally been given 2200m then? >> Yes, Steve, at last! I was snooping around on the Indusstry Canada trying to find our joint report on Canadian 2200m experiments we sent them last summer and found instead a "Canadian Table of Frequency Allocations 9 kHz to 275 GHz (2009 Edition)" http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf/$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf After a couple of inquiries, it does seem indeed as if Canadians are now officially authorised to use 2200m. Horray! 73 Joe VO1NA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD071-860d4b8a45ab28f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:30:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 157F438000085; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 05:30:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlgON-00031Y-Lj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlgON-00031P-6x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlgOK-0006yo-KH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:28:55 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SASlxI095066 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:28:48 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00211 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:50 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:33:50 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9C37FBB31AF6404980D3039622DBE323@Black> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:28:50 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b8a45a9644b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the laptop > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screenshot, > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patched for > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. Dear Markus, In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=1uW D=6km yelds E=1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. But we should normalyze this to bandwith. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF073-5efc4b82caf62bb; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:20:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 73CC938000145; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:20:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njcsh-0003ik-7j for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njcsg-0003ib-CP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:42 +0000 Received: from web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njcsg-00047M-5l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:19:42 +0000 Received: (qmail 39328 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 18:19:35 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266862775; bh=k7dU27iawPuC2FgAXvkbKiJGh93OI4LJ9GwQbX+s+Tc=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=z3vOCKrjmWb1S15iS8psdStgmZfmoziHcMkU+x6TsW20qBKx19oKtcD3OkLQcx4YbUVTvFW3lX8cNWcOnuELAoJXhiW/uKWy2F2wKPMwlvtzPwJdJ4hktj9Di+Ov47MkzhmUnbQJbhmzz0TvPkqIlU2Lst46yGYv93ijkOrGRb4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=lrPmdxhZ3kpHQQZGTWU8wUH0Rwx/JHfxXzplBWGHImZL5yvOaRimN4V4lw9SKTJ3ZBMywYZO862W79M2MnjAbBYEaHaVTSNgf8ifFVJHn56XRJ7qfY/thkZ8JwGyojLmyMDRVkhH+a/lTKwRMLLQalPhdoa/r6RDOCq1vZ9rTcw=; Message-ID: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: mz09mckVM1mclOZ5zrITa32etemIL7K8HOEagW8FllTIgaZMZaqAqrMC9R8SpJS7Gr8BRfn_qSvRR1N0N1N6c_.JAMYnrnD.q2xpD5Z1iWB037Q_BDXhfbxJoKGe_5bV4U2ltLyabkI_nORh9eFOpfLJhFMzoqyWjVhgUKriCh1M_H1xzTSFDMs5Z0Lr5V3WkiMbjIJNMETEfl3HJwU62p7DB81hE4YVsCTjbAeTEg.LyNJAf8D94fIBxPYEEviNrOTQEUSXHGNgxGDBM8bF1RFmc8Q9sZqBxwBgekpqQ1axkeE0vJ4iEw62TFUU Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:19:34 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:19:34 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m276.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b82caf26059 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Group =A0 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" = ; on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10,= James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: owne= r-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.<= BR>
I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz,= let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
      &nbs= p;         WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/= 23
                WE2XEB/2
=                 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>= Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to<= BR>contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rem= ember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by Intern= ational Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays= , and no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be dif= ferent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer=
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <Stefan= .Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79= kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna with= out the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>= > you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, somet= hing arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if= you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden= , say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a<= BR>>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>&g= t; that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will= still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>&g= t; same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> mak= e some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be= much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>>= And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the=
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03,= schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency,= widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>>= probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to ho= w these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers= from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I belie= ve) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) -= see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't= expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) av= ailable
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to=
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous= power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>= ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/= 2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>> &nb= sp; Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That soun= ds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs=
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
&g= t;> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>= ;> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>&g= t; in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF= bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mou= nted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from= 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>>= matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results,= of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
&= gt;> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&= gt;> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________= __________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
&g= t;>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>=     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconin= g on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamat= eur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz= is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not beli= eve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>= > a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> lice= nce. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>><= BR>>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= ; bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _________________________________________= __________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000= ,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de= /go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= ;> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3x= bm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk<= /A>
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      = ;ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------= ----
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Um= weltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>&= gt; schaefer@iup.uni-heidel= berg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49)= (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
= >



=20 --0-1193720606-1266862774=:39060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-mf04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF043-8be74b859d801f3; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:43:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BA8E8380002AB; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOzo-0007bT-Cd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOzo-0007bK-1w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:16 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOzm-0007rW-9i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:15 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100224214208.IOZB4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:08 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOzg-00052c-3Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:08 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:42:04 -0000 Message-ID: <00a201cab59a$354d7460$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acq1mHB3MuhcLMwEQsqqMyGHqzCYOAAAa1WA In-Reply-To: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=AUwoxtSXBqyp88UOAoMA:9 a=Xh9zPtCJqlMQ4ZPKuWZ2B5H5lgwA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b859d7c5472 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 V sad! Just like when they dropped the masts at Rugby! A v sad day indeed From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC073-a97d4b7ef3fb3b9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:26:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C0FC380000BE; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:26:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZP9-0006Lv-SQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiZP9-0006Lm-I8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiZP6-0002NI-Ti for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:24:51 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B8F5F0002 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:47 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Marcin?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <63b0b5a5.599871a1.4b7ef38e.d58ac@go2.pl> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:46 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FROM_EXCESS_QP=0,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b7ef3fa5e65 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b89252e2c6; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:59:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1AD453800011F; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:59:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNAe-0008Ui-NH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNAe-0008UZ-9f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNAb-00053H-VH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1RDvNp9026609 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:57:24 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:57:23 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:53:54 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Thread-Index: Acq3FDGdW7Wq1nSXTjCZDAorZegk9AAoBsdU References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.134820 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355" Subject: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55582 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b89252b27cb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear group,=20 =20 It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 02:47 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, Andy Talbot wrote: > probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73k= Hz > the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely > Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. Andy, certanly AFTER filtering noise became gaussian. But matter of fact is that if noise is nongaussian then to get optimal reception one should make some nonlinear processing (limiting in simplest way) BEFORE narrow band filtering. After filtering when noise is gaussian limiting or someone else nonliniar processing has no sence. There is exact matematical theorem: if noise is gaussian then optimal signal processing is linear filtering (or correlator calculation in coherent case). > However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going= for > coherent signalling. IMHO coherent signaling improoves SNR by 3 dB. It does not depend of the fact if noise is gaussian or nongaussian. Anyway this (coherent signaling) is linear processing nonoptimal when noise is nongaussian. Interesting quation arises there. Is any optimal form of the signal if noise is nongaussian? I don't know answer. This is high science. But if noise is gaussian then form of the signal has no meaning. Only energy of the signal has meaning if noise is gaussian (with constant spectrum). If filter is optimal for specific signal of couse.=20 Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B4.C928C355 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhgNAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHQAAAEFXOiBMRjogUmU6IDlrSHog bm9pc2UgbGV2ZWwAywgBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGwAOADUANgAGAH0BASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABsADgA5 ABcABgBiAQEJgAEAIQAAADBDMTU1RTE5MjBGOUYzNDk4NkNDQkQ4RThCOThDQUFEAG8HAQOQBgA4 EQAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ABuouUy0t8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI3MTM1NzIzWi0xMjA4AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAdAAAAUmU6IExGOiBSZTogOWtIeiBub2lzZSBsZXZlbAAAAABAAE4AgLR+z063ygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01U 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from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcqBo-0008Bm-6p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:24 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcqBn-0008Bd-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:23 +0000 Received: from smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcqBl-0004Mk-8d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:07:23 +0000 Received: (qmail 91163 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=jduhZndOpgK8gWX83mBDTgXz3YoZQCDs7CT8z5TmbtihXDQKhpTyZ41110LVVdSwd/YCT7GdWwh8OxS1pVT5VCuc+GBETXXRAcBORzZBSGcWam9IO60SV0+kN4TGkEh+cqVDbTKRVVtWWsHX/NJNuXYrwm12+UP3qMv5Kzout5o= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: hKYCHQ4VM1mjBFVygoMQTxV9qaKf1U9fTqBPhjgEarH0A0qKfL0xdi8QcOSaiANs8fXrusRo1s_PTh6PMyJlC1NJaobXAUvBqEFZIVL0kGt56__53LKsoQxkW79Eqb8Ax3xhAI1E3Kyd568RGqMPZo5D2zdREytX4G_suOWPbdgoFKm0PEy0C_XSARTtvXyrNGoT3HVtPEjAOS8Yup5Vr1tMwPPh785j4ZK3gcD9XFNgtoIufadhWOS4sGiLtsBqTXu5og-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <132E5B4C5BE74CB88E5411BF10DC90B6@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:07:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b6a1e064a8e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Stefan, LF Group, I shut the beacon down at 0102utc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b85388d27b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AA4EC38000127; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIGX-0005Pn-En for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIGX-0005Pe-3e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkIGV-0004RN-3Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:31:05 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OEUrTT046638 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:30:59 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00271 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:35:46 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:35:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:31:00 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b85388b640d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter, > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3.2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.147]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI041-eac24b7ff486df; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:41:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 313A138000096; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:41:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiqUY-0002Dm-6j for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiqUX-0002Dd-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:33 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiqUU-00087u-Jv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:39:33 +0000 Received: from mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.1]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1KEdELx015061; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:14 -0500 Received: from White (e179127105.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.127.105]) by mtaout-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id DA292E0000B2; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <68EFAA7E30A14EB2A10857D6E05CD822@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: Cc: "Peter Martinez" References: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:39:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55283 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29014b7ff40e629d X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB242.D7921060" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55283 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40934b7ff4852359 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Chris, Laurence, LF, I have tried to look at the Alaska pulsegroups in more detail. On http= ://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LORANALASKA_5990.jpg (183 kB) the= re is a graphical "SSTV-type" plot of Laurence's complete wav, with 11= .10 kHz sampling and "line rate" set to 59.90 ms. The appended clip sh= ows the area of the first crossover. The four different GRI 5990 pulsegroups can be seen as a vertical set= of lines from top to bottom. GRI 5980 advances 100 us to the left in= each row, with the first two of eight pulses blinked on only for abou= t 10% of the time. I think the selective fading effect described by Chris can be understo= od by the varying delay during the pulsegroup overlap period. Whenever= the pulses coincide, they will add up coherently, depending on the ph= ase of the RF path and the phasecoding state. About five GRI periods= (0.3 s) later they will be separated 500us, with minimum 1 kHz and ma= ximum 2 kHz content, and no dependence on RF phase. Looking in detail at the first time of coincidence (yellow arrow), you= can see that alternating "knots" appear brighter and darker. This ind= icates that we are experiencing the superposition of an "A" and a "B"= type phasecoded pulsegroup, with the relative phases alternating for= subsequent pulses. The second coincidence near the end of the file ha= s equal phasecode states (A-A and B-B) in both rates, and all knots ar= e equally bright. This may also be contributing to the more pronounced= phasing sound on this one. Another interesting detail unrelated to the phasing is that some of th= e 5990 pulses from Shoal Cove appear to be missing. Plotting it agains= t its former other rate 7960 revealed that the alternate blanking sche= me (ie. omitting a pulse for one rate when one has to be transmitted= for the other at the same time) is still active, even though the actu= al transmittission for the second rate has been turned off on Feb 8th. Last not least there are many single pulses "floating around". These= are occuring approximately every 8.33 ms, most likely an artifact fro= m a 60 Hz switching power supply. Kind regards, MArkus From: Chris Trayner=20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very simil= ar rates, walking through one another in time. I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pul= se group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the= chittering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chi= t chit" and the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this abou= t 1/5 to 1/4 of the way through the recording. When they fit in each= others' gaps you hear "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: yo= u can hear this just before half way through the recording. The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and= lower audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way= through to nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and= bass. Presumably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz= spectrum, though the treble will be represented by both the parts jus= t above 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtle= r than that*. Maybe this is caused by frequency-selective fading, pres= umably what Lawrence described as the "musical sounds they made as sky= waves did their thing". Could someone more knowledgable than me comme= nt on that? * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see= only one half of the spectrum. For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01CAB242.D7921060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Chris, Laurence, LF,
 
 
The four different GRI 5990 pulsegrou= ps can be seen=20 as a vertical set of lines from top to bottom. GRI 5980 advances= 100 us to=20 the left in each row, with the first two of eight pulses blinked on=20 only for about 10% of the time.
 
I think the selective fading effect= described by=20 Chris can be understood by the varying delay during the pulsegroup ove= rlap=20 period. Whenever the pulses coincide, they will add up coherently= ,=20 depending on the phase of the RF path and the phasecoding state. About= five GRI=20 periods (0.3 s) later they will be separated 500us, with&nbs= p;minimum=20 1 kHz and maximum 2 kHz content, and no dependence on RF phase.=
 
Looking in detail at the first= time of=20 coincidence (yellow arrow), you can see that alternating "knots" appea= r brighter=20 and darker. This indicates that we are experiencing the=20 superposition of an "A" and a "B" type phasecoded pulsegroup= , with the=20 relative phases alternating for subsequent pulses. The second coi= ncidence=20 near the end of the file has equal phasecode states (A-A and B-B)= in both=20 rates, and all knots are equally bright. This may also be contrib= uting=20 to the more pronounced phasing sound on this one.
 
Another interesting detail unrelated= to the phasing=20 is that some of the 5990 pulses from Shoal Cove appear to be miss= ing.=20 Plotting it against its former other rate 7960 revealed= that the=20 alternate blanking scheme (ie. omitting a pulse for one rate when = ;one has=20 to be transmitted for the other at the same time) is still active, eve= n though=20 the actual transmittission for the second rate has been turned of= f on Feb=20 8th.
 
Last not least there are many si= ngle pulses=20 "floating around". These are occuring approximately every 8.33=20 ms, most likely an artifact from a 60 Hz switching power=20 supply.
 
Kind regards,
MArkus
 

Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C
=
Dear Markus,=20 Lawrence and others,


Thanks for your interesting comments= on this=20 theme.

> The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of= these=20 very similar rates, walking through one another in time.

I thin= k I can=20 hear two effects which might be described as phasing.

One is du= e to the=20 different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse group rates) wh= ich Markus=20 describes. This appears a a change in the chittering sound. When the= groups=20 coincide you hear it as "chit   chit   chit" and= the=20 pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of th= e way=20 through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hear=20 "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just be= fore half=20 way through the recording.

The other effect is a change in the= relative=20 strengths of higher and lower audio frequencies. You can hear this fro= m about=20 4/5 of the way through to nearly the end, where the sound cycles betwe= en treble=20 and bass. Presumably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110= kHz=20 spectrum, though the treble will be represented by both the parts just= above=20 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than= that*.=20 Maybe this is caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what La= wrence=20 described as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thin= g". Could=20 someone more knowledgable than me comment on that?

* Unless Law= rence was=20 demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see only one half of the= =20 spectrum.


For those who have deleted the original message,= the=20 recording is at
> = http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav


73,
Chris=20 G4OKW

-----------------------
Dr Chris Trayner
School of= Electronic=20 & Electrical Engineering,
The University of Leeds,
Leeds LS2= 9JT,=20 United Kingdom
Tel: +44 113 34 32053
Fax: +44 113 34=20 32032


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1NczBb-0002Ya-0o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczBa-0002YR-Kh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:46 +0000 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.155]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczBX-0007ne-Tu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:43:46 +0000 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 19so146030fgg.10 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:43:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=OH0V/LM1AZOHFFa3Zbuhqd0jQEuokbeR1I2SyuUKTac=; b=Ci7f66kA6eABohkEVZNgUmKAVtyTVvlOLqGHJ4ogIt8ComXboBNHo8yi3DZAz6pr17 KGyB4Ld4mHUvPB2js5nAeYpxtoGoHLV4xhoXNOtGUvQwST0tjyV/aLYu2bHeGc4/ilCQ ORzQQGRfWAm/8Qcswg8M3DFVggpD2Gm0dC/Zo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Tur5yRcK2KM1HGbjOF6wBqUKB1UJ32e75QTmeXQREYUsddpExd4o25GmNf7o8VCjWo 1XL89esnp2H7ryLcSYjfU375XPzIbIJKy3HCn9h+OKv3zpgyVVJ0pUo6wHSGsanglvDv PDmoIGEG89nindJYsfhNH8e2A9BcgvHhGht8Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.185.76 with SMTP id b12mr108740hbh.53.1265280221708; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:43:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> From: Harry Woodhouse To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MISSING_SUBJECT=1.345 Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b6aa5315f27 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Friends, Unfortunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope to move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall). Best 73s Harry G3MFW --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Unfor= tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope to = move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licensed= since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensely e= njoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continu= e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was st= ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 units= , together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell= , Cornwall).
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Best 73s=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Harry G3MFW




--001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF074-5efd4b8753403c6; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:51:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 447DF38000097; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:51:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nks8p-00028h-FG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nks8o-00028Y-Va for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:30 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s9.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nks8m-0002CE-VT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:49:30 +0000 Received: from COL122-W32 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s9.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:48:10 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:48:10 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2010 04:48:10.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[E57616D0:01CAB69E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_" Subject: LF: LF_signature X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55522 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b87533e7d3f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_" --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! Whose is the nice signature, which I captured today early morning? :-) 73!=20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
Whose is the nice signature, which I captured today early mor= ning? :-)

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispam= ovou technologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat =3D --_921a35fe-6920-4a73-9216-85d6838c3661_-- --_dae56f2e-d908-4141-921a-23c485d3c40b_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100226_signature.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAD5AXoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcS40-00089b-P1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:21:44 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcS3y-0002sz-2C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:21:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o12NLcbX022884 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:21:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:21:39 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:19:04 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Thread-Index: AcqjYiOpBPlL//a+QNC9eA/Bg+vuKAA+/kWn References: <1f0624b91001310901s4b277bfdl34710411e4185839@mail.gmail.com> <1C05E50A54B4465193C903D46F3566E6@JimPC> <1f0624b91001311347v4db2dd59k65607d8b6240452c@mail.gmail.com> <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> <4B670AE2.7040600@freenet.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.2.230935 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F" Subject: AW: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94b68b3c33ff1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Wolf,=20 =20 Come back to LF! You can run the antenna on MF later, if you want ;-) Let'= s do it like 2004, 2mCW: 589, 2200mCW: 589 ;-) =20 73! Stefan/DK7FC (nw QTH Heidelberg) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Wolfgang B=FCscher Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:09 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Hi Markus and group, > The extra {10} may be just SpecLab's way of displaying a linefeed. Exactly that. Each received non-printing character is simply dumped as a decimal code in curly braces. The linefeed character (code 10) should be ignored if it follows a carriage return (code 13), but I didn't care about this too much when implementing the digimode terminal. 73, Wolf DL4YHF (still QRT on LF.. and waiting for a german MF allocation.= .) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA45E.7888C23F Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBMRjogUmU6IDUwMCBr SHogQlBTSzA4AIkGAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAAATAAQAAwAAAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADAAAAFQAn AAMAJQEBCYABACEAAAA4NzdENUZDNDQyNjAzNTREOTMyRTMxRENBMjI1MDc4NAADBwEDkAYAAA8A ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCZm8AcXqTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDIyMzIxMzhaLTI4NwAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAFJlOiBMRjogUmU6IDUwMCBrSHogQlBTSzA4AABAAE4AAF1UX2GjygEeAFoAAQAAACMA AABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsf 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Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b688ffa1a9; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:50:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 32C45380002ED; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcPfe-0007NY-PE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcPfe-0007NP-E9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcPfc-00022n-PF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsgEAMceaEtZ8YDo/2dsb2JhbACNFAPMKIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,393,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282019494" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.128.232]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 20:48:06 +0000 Message-ID: <006a01caa448$ffca2980$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:47:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: PA0HTT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b688ff73fea X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not too strong in QSO mode mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not= too strong in=20 QSO mode
 
mal/g3kev
------=_NextPart_000_0067_01CAA448.FF639F80-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.218]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB024-86964b82e00251; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A3B4E380000C4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeHD-000435-2U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeHC-00042w-IV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeH9-0004td-Sl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2032479bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:48:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=p0xDznLouiZEiznbuTJHb8wzxsuvq81d+16HlkKGsmM=; b=UFdGc3jLQW/jfOAuhrqj7oiwWlaLkAq80jVe5g/pDRtfKF8fb8eKkHFewnZ9C8xR2W pTbmunzERoxSOuKD3WlTIBeeeQypIMOtRnJiMN7ixBKNUdlrghk4WPqQjIBHXGs5WU7H PDYNhCnV5UFF4Dhork33jYG1DviQRe5LaT5BM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=L1pRkiyvb2zxULMICiA88ZpDkrb2486OW1z5PePuJj4Z+MEt185N18xs1B9QM8iXRh yFwxzhte7/eDO+tG4c5KsnmfnaTP0p3ddkBNtYZJVF3qqQ2aDmbdx9tCcDiod8jIP+bH WNzEcMfMWFde5Cr5LEGhBg7I+pKAfewWmv/94= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.207 with SMTP id u15mr101932bkd.187.1266868137772; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:48:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:48:57 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221148l19a80ffeg764ef3b1aa0a9243@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a906544707048035b97a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m278.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40da4b82e0005a88 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a906544707048035b97a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There is a copy of *G0AKN's paper* summarising his experiments on my website. See < http://sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz/earthcomms.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1 > 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 > and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. An > article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of the > AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online for > G0AKN. > > Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes > used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved with a > 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. > > 73 > John Rabson > F5VLF > 58800 Cervon > France > JN17vg > > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a906544707048035b97a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a copy of G0AKN's paper summarising his experiments on= my website.

See <http://sites.goo= gle.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz/earthcomms.pdf?attredirects=3D0&d=3D1= >

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 17:51, John RABSON <john.rabson@numeo.fr> wrote:
If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as= 73 and 136 kHz. =A0G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more informati= on. =A0An article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 = =A0issue of the AMRAD newsletter. =A0More information may be found by sear= ching online for G0AKN.

Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. =A0The maximum range we have achieved= with a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres.

73
John Rabson
F5VLF
58800 Cervon
France
JN17vg








--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555a906544707048035b97a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.217]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b6fa0d23ba; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:27:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C0248380000F7; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:27:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeM8g-0007Zv-KN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeM8g-0007Zm-9T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeM8e-0006qz-E7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:26:26 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620E340069 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:26:23 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: XKO,YO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01CAA887.A26E9D50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 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1NlJvT-0006bf-4Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJvS-0006bW-5g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:34 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlJvP-00040Q-Jc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:29:34 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFC27B8047 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n3.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.13]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0516FF3863 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.13]) with mapi; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:29:18 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:24:24 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Thread-Index: Acq3kt36Atj9nJv0QUOc2lr864cDYwABCooW Message-ID: References: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com>,<377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecd4b88f44e2808 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Warren , Pete, when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur segme= nt (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the big tele= com "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would transmit the= re with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be able to get any= further than the other end of the town. It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town ;-= ) 73, Rik ON7YD ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: zaterdag 27 februari 2010 10:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz? Hi Warren and thanks Your comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynicism,= I like that .... hee hee! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler wrote: From: Warren Ziegler Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28 Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggested tha= t 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to= receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must= be considerably closer. You comment on politics reminds of the old joke: Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round= ! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT > wrote: Hi Warren Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one may not travel but at the moment th= ere is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come fro= m this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable= at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quic= k wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with= this continuous beat note running all the time. 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Warren= , Pete,
 
when back in the mid 90'= s the initial request for a longwave amateur segment (what later turned ou= t to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no= harm that amateurs would transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that= power one wouldn't be able to get any further than the other end of= the town.
It turned out a bit differ= ent, unless you see the world as one big town ;-)
 
73, Rik  ON7YD=
Van: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT= [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: zaterdag 27 februari 2010 10:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz?

Hi= Warren and thanks
 
Yo= ur comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynici= sm, I like that
..= .. hee hee!
 
73= es GL petefmt


--- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com>= wrote:

From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged in a bi= t of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but= not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it= must be considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics reminds of= the old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism?=
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other wa= y 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
               WD2XGJ 
               WD2XSH/23
               WE2XEB/2
               WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk&= gt; wrote:

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a long road that I for one&n= bsp;may not travel but at the moment there is enough enthusiasm locally to= try out a few ideas many have come from this debate on the LF reflector.= The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xg= j@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
              WD2XGJ
              WD2XSH/23
              WE2XEB/2
              WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received=
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as=
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths=
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<= br> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask=
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you= will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<= br> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br> would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice






--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4075ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC044-a9324b75a8a0179; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:14:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 827AB3800032B; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xP-0004q6-3M for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xO-0004pw-Cy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:38 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0xM-0004Yc-3h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:38 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212191314.KTLW10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:14 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0ww-0005hV-UT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:14 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsFtlk0PMdBTUjR4yddSbXeb0AaQAAF/nA In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=WilkBP5Pf4bzsgR1D2YA:9 a=kRCJG5bLNP_x5K9aXEYA:7 a=9s18pjNw2CPZ6e9PpXOHFpId98sA:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=GYlPk34C_0G73wAL:21 a=bHse69SDa9mtnTGP:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=LMNQ86G0mSXf08deKfMA:9 a=1h44D8GNWc9in-N4NpkA:7 a=XL6VdycblWZGT-qnxRuIhBxeAnoA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b75a89d6eac X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A bozo I will= be!!

 

 = <= /p>

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's descrip= tion in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you= need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will pl= ace the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to= know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" men= u.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Gu= ide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar= to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <= ;rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next= week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <= james.co= wburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on= the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to= Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

------=_NextPart_000_015A_01CAAC17.683AF500-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.209]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF081-5efe4b7474dafe; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1941D3800043E; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgSS-0001n3-QG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgSS-0001mu-Dn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: from warsl404pip1.highway.telekom.at ([195.3.96.112] helo=email.aon.at) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfgSQ-0005E7-1J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:20 +0000 Received: (qmail 7970 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from 93-82-0-237.adsl.highway.telekom.at (HELO [192.168.1.101]) ([93.82.0.237]) (envelope-sender ) by smarthub97.highway.telekom.at (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Feb 2010 21:20:10 -0000 From: Gerhard Hickl To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:20:10 +0100 Message-ID: <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b7474d0689a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan ! 850nm is visible too! It by far not that bright than "visible" light is, but nevertheless, still visible. 850nm is the typical wavelength used for MultiMode Fiber Connections. On a 50-62.5 Multimode-Fiber it usually can travel for up to one kilometer (850m is the nominal distance). The wavelength I am usually dealing with is 1310 or 1550nm (SDH and WDM equipment). So maybe you'll give the 850nm a try. I don't know if these components are cheaper than the 600nm but visibility is not the problem. Cheers OE3GHB Gerhard =20 =20 Am Donnerstag, den 11.02.2010, 20:25 +0100 schrieb Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer: > Hi Roelof,=20 > =20 > My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V= (6,58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward= current. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough,= so perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same curre= nt, say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see= the light coming into the shack... > =20 > The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there.=20 > =20 > 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, >=20 > Thank you all. > Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. > I am not that desperate yet. >=20 > These items are advertised as low cost.... >=20 > I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. > However these are also hard to find. >=20 > I will look into it a bit further. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF014-5ee54b8875921a8; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:29:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14E6C380000A7; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlBTm-0002jw-D5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlBTl-0002jn-I2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:25 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlBTj-0001Oi-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:28:25 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so126893qwa.16 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=R958FkPhsyHjlX26zROSOk194f4+DAFR1XReySJ2fKE=; b=hkeAUArWC/f7EDMvVHzzl1cM9GwrvrZKk+aN2orTi3GMI/zHD6s6unMOQFa8EEXtGz zwC4pEOhg3c7XmxJdHzAnX948yX2RrKMRpKFE0yIEIw8RjhCoegz8byoomNSFLZG01bt MB0n9B7SEb2tcy7sa4yB5ZFqFMTUPJ2aJnz8k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vp16xoOuG1MPRaWYcPAF6ZoG40daKqDzmIY3+k//b6bGi7ZzBGnuMMoBxhoWDaD+V3 ytDC94s+aG7XPXlkN2ieE32L0TUdoHj4vYeLZsaFfhPebmq65o8WVAa2v7IAGMQ2/gz5 ly6nsA8h31QNLMLzL0moq7F4XlvRZaMuIXYck= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.48.15 with SMTP id p15mr723004qaf.198.1267234100281; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:28:20 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m233.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b8875900d61 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must be considerably closer. You comment on politics reminds of the old joke: Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round ! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: > > Hi Warren >> >> Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any >> means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. >> Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a >> leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I >> am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local >> LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may >> be a long road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is >> enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this >> debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about >> 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the >> road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this >> continuous beat note running all the time. >> >> 73 es GL petefmt >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Warren Ziegler" >> > >> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM >> To: >> > >> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below >> 9kHz? >> >> >>> Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not >>> extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for >>> nothing.... >>> >>> -- >>> 73 Warren K2ORS >>> WD2XGJ >>> WD2XSH/23 >>> WE2XEB/2 >>> WE2XGR/1 >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >>>> >>>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>>>> received >>>>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >>>>> >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>> >>>>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>>>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>>>> as >>>>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>>>> Act >>>>> 2006. [...] >>>>> >>>> >>>> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >>>> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >>>> continent >>>> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >>>> radio >>>> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >>>> strengths >>>> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection >>>> authority >>>> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >>>> usually >>>> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >>>> >>>> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >>>> ask >>>> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >>>> will >>>> need a license for that" clause. >>>> >>>> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >>>> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz >>>> (or >>>> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). >>>> you >>>> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >>>> >>>> VY 73 >>>> >>>> Jacek / SQ5BPF >>>> >>>> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > > --00c09ff794096501f604808aee45 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete,

=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes I guess I engaged in= a bit of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden= wall, but not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is= 10km for an amateur and that was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then= for a signal to be audible it must be considerably closer.
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You comment on politic= s reminds of the old joke:=A0
Q. =A0Do you know the difference= between capitalism and communism?
A. =A0In capitalism its dog= eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round !

--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1=

=A0=A0

On Fri, Feb 26= , 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Warren
=A0
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New Presi= dent is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of= our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am no= t expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF= Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may= be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment there is= enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this= debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at ab= out 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during a quick wi= z up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with thi= s continuous beat note running all the time.
=A0
73 es GL petefmt

---------------= -----------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" &l= t;wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday= , February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or= Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden see= ms like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Thu= , Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn= wrote:

People may be interested in the rep= ly from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFCOM&#= 39;s view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs= indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Howe= ver in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into grou= nd dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field str= engths
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority
and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the gov= erment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will<= br>need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask th= em if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave trans= mission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br>would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

= Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually= very nice













--00c09ff794096501f604808aee45-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.89]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b747e09213; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:00:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 06E1A380001D9; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfh4T-00022J-Sv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfh4T-00022A-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f191.google.com ([209.85.216.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfh4Q-0005Ue-Pf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:37 +0000 Received: by pxi29 with SMTP id 29so969576pxi.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kfiyihZDyJT6qRjYvCC7sCzs2FuNwJGuOi2KQ/sOr/Q=; b=w5B0VrxhfvoKqy2tfmTc5K4cNPGzpvtnC/0tMYs01vVgUrBbyd3MDLE5FirKgYOiKX 2JZU7valIflbbxflKJ+gHQZg81VFN4pa3BWgivKhdj08ziKucWKt4YOZlndsm7hkuTLH gA5ma/YtzAu29Am9rlgdcho/Fp4EJz31KcDrM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=Fn5aEefHG/bC5Y7B/GCCC+/LxXFbqL5u6kXmXRzssYK40IbiE8SyYZWQ6s5il/Ok1m bOVQcgTK7KEkF/TPRVLWVRgJAoUBj//LoEEiZ3Y9ftPJJWB4E9VJSRnipSM1OuXy/Dey jvoUTQcYI6U98aO8tlu8NUzAFoGgK7PW+78TI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.4 with SMTP id d4mr316111rva.117.1265925566823; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:59:26 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f477e934243098c3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002111359p36faa59bg16cfc48f02ef08dd@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m210.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60594b747e076d67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Jim, Thanks for my 1st 2 way WSPR. I must admit that I missed one of the change-overs & sent the wrong reply text, not a lot of time to think & do. UTC Date: 2010 Feb 11 --------------------- 202904 Transmitting: WSPR CQ G4WGT IO83 213400 17 0 0.1 6 0 M0BMU 213600 Transmitting: WSPR M0BMU S1 213800 14 7 0.2 -15 0 G4WGT R S4 214200 16 4 0.1 -15 0 G4WGT S4 214400 Transmitting: WSPR M0BMU R S6 214600 15 4 0.3 -15 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 214800 Transmitting: WSPR 73 DE G4WGT IO83 73, Gary - G4WGT --001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim,

Thanks for my 1st 2 way WSPR.

I must admit that I missed one of the change-overs & sent the= wrong reply text, not a lot of time to think & do.

UTC Date: 2010 Feb 11
---------------------
= 202904 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
213400 =A017 =A0 0 =A00.1 =A0= =A0 6 =A00 =A0<G4WGT> M0BMU =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
213600 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
213800 =A014 =A0 7 =A00.2 = =A0 -15 =A00 =A0G4WGT <M0BMU> R S4 =A0 =A0
214200 =A016 = =A0 4 =A00.1 =A0 -15 =A00 =A0G4WGT <M0BMU> S4 =A0 =A0 =A0
214400 =A0Transmitting: WSPR =A0 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0
214600 =A015 =A0 4 =A00.= 3 =A0 -15 =A00 =A073 DE M0BMU IO91 =A0 =A0 =A0
214800 =A0Transmi= tting: WSPR =A0 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0=A0


73, Gary - G4WGT
--001636b14ca3b8fd31047f5a4372-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.217]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b86c6e88c; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:52:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BB583800007A; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkinX-0006rO-0R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkinW-0006rF-KG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:54 +0000 Received: from smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.247]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkinU-0007lE-NR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 42596 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2010 18:50:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=XSu10rcnRd59mF8zgPzhK5mOS1NXrbdU8JY4gzSkxGVwa9Af6DHnFIdo22MYKMjcPu/mGiggwOZiAxGA04ZdX9sBxkytpDeUhnzb0Wxlsncu+iSfvsABptalUg8VAM/TnpbwXefK/hp4QDvCSuOfJBp5A3G2kGASpC0fjRA9H7c= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1267123847; bh=9qzFig0WAgiWoY1+TgeVsGjn15ZbClMqsTzgHKB5k3Q=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=mvBnQaagfXPPPlf+VdYN2A4h4tSe9fWISf0GITNQLFEDmimknEPEpCyLZsed6E/7gtxcMJl3rD3XRdyw1wcpGN0fI0MZyGJd9TZgazibXRRvMDvRAu+AA2Y/3BLn5zrTEDvjfEDN25RZqTj9SpwkN2ApQCzB0LwBxwB1jdDfAR4= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp818.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 18:50:46 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: UiZGa04VM1mFKudL6PL3SDDXH2.yl.Dy2577si8v8mHtPSTQlU_Fas.AE1Q74etVD5zb2JnufgeQJvlINQ5UdH8J4jiogZq9oC7qLXD5zYqOOMMjM_r0Hyv4ExCD5sVj.KZKZ7QCz0KyWv1lSbYirWa2f9UKshGffvMv4FNJocsFmDnLDv7E17L0EnR5xxAqtWiaGYveg6qM4LCpjGJBjSxZscOJD9crwwOrurFGVADPoJlqV6j.gOnWRajmybDFpf8.b0YkU1J9br68SnRkfw1CkAi7KyMx0lWBL4Jl X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:50:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d224.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d94b86c6e7397d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, As a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig gen into my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reverse" arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum Lab to monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise bandwidth). I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M" copy trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equivalent field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say what the SNR is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is probably not a million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field strength about 25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this evening is particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Talbot" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a > 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise > density > Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) > = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.129]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA044-86644b6ab116271; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:35:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5C9023800007B; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:35:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NczyV-00030h-T5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczyV-00030Y-Dc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczyT-0008Jl-CJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:34:19 +0000 Received: from COL122-W46 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s10.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:34:09 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:34:09 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> References: <5931f8db1002040243w1fc010b1r91b436021eca29af@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2010 11:34:09.0602 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7926A20:01CAA58D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_" Subject: LF: Decca X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40814b6ab11454cc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Harry! If I lived in UK, then I would buy your two PA Decca immediatelly.=20 I hope, you will be able to continue with LF receiving from your new QTH!= =20 GL 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ******************************* > Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0000 > From: hwoodhouse3@googlemail.com > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D001485f7bed= 028055c047ec402b0 >=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1 >=20 > Dear Friends, >=20 > Unfortunately the health of my wife and myself is > deteriorating, and we hope to move house shortly where transmitting will= be > impossible. I am 80, licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not > complaining! I have immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google > every day, and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You= were > a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is > interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items, ple= ase > phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall). > Best 73s > Harry G3MFW >=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > Dear Friends,

=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Unfor=3D > tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating, and we hope= to =3D > move house shortly where transmitting will be impossible. I am 80, licen= sed=3D > since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not complaining! I have immensel= y e=3D > njoyed reading all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can cont= inu=3D > e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was= st=3D > ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two Decca 5501 un= its=3D > , together with other LF items, please phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Aust= ell=3D > , Cornwall).
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Best 73s >=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D > =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Harry G3MFW




>=20 > --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0-- >=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Harry!
If I lived in UK, then I would buy your two PA Decca= immediatelly.
I hope, you will be able to continue with LF receiving= from your new QTH!

GL 73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

***= ****************************

> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:43:41 +0= 000
> From: hwoodhouse3@googlemail.com
> To: rsgb_lf_group@bla= cksheep.org
> Subject: LF: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boun= dary=3D001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0
>
> --001485f7bed028055c0= 47ec402b0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1
>=
> Dear Friends,
>
> Unfortunately th= e health of my wife and myself is
> deteriorating, and we hope to mo= ve house shortly where transmitting will be
> impossible. I am 80,= licensed since 1958, with DXCC etc., so I'm not
> complaining! I ha= ve immensely enjoyed reading all your E-mails on Google
> every day,= and hope I can continue receiving LF from our new home. You were
>= a great help to me when I was struggling to get onto LF. If anyone is
= > interested in my two Decca 5501 units, together with other LF items,= please
> phone me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell, Cornwall).
>= Best 73s
> Harry= G3MFW
>
> --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0
> Content-Typ= e: text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quot= ed-printable
>
> Dear Friends,<br><br>=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Unf= or=3D
> tunately the health of my wife and myself is deteriorating,= and we hope to =3D
> move house shortly where transmitting will be= impossible. I am 80, licensed=3D
> since 1958, with DXCC etc., so= I&#39;m not complaining! I have immensely e=3D
> njoyed reading= all your E-mails on Google every day, and hope I can continu=3D
>= e receiving LF from our new home. You were a great help to me when I was= st=3D
> ruggling to get onto LF. If anyone is interested in my two= Decca 5501 units=3D
> , together with other LF items, please phone= me at 01726 73608 (St. Austell=3D
> , Cornwall).<br>
>= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D= A0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Best 73s<br=3D
> >=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA= 0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3D
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Harry= G3MFW<br><br><br><br><br>
>
>= --001485f7bed028055c047ec402b0--
>

<= hr />Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispa= movou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D --_5d01cab2-a31a-4812-9d27-5372389ddff6_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE014-5ea54b866e9d327; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D36E6380000D2; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcvB-0003Vb-P8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcvB-0003VR-8M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkcv9-0004SP-1D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:25 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4484487bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=HZHDRrb4ETsdshtMEnRxWp6ZJvbPe8B027YkUzgQagg=; b=itHk9dG2UWFmDSY6zLGYJi/GML52C5jPPVsHUpKH5SF/ALWMBHF55xw+pQCWjPH57m 6OHl7Ve8FUsgvrNj8Rbpv2uTqfOKckaulUiRvuGwc7/nwrEiDMVbUibDeUchhrPT53wG X2F5Ix5ntWG6YfdOd2BgRIkbFG80tnoDg8G4o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=TCRUOVkRXJyT1Bq9akt97PbLxig8bS0sgBP5QhfYV97QFeCAFn3ADdw43ojAdNsIQX aLJIbvLiFycW2KsYhhQL5Lqj7DBW2zQTYMI8X9lm7zGCsMbquPjtlaUGgjLXk7faY9+1 NWiOjlBqg8rsfIHPgJ/3715Xu70ew3dNj9XX8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.10.3 with SMTP id n3mr677028bkn.81.1267101257222; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:34:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:34:17 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m246.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b866e9b3ed5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, but what is the gain / antenna factor of your Miniwhip? Measuing -115dBm means little in itself, you need to convert this to a calibrated V/m form. IF the miniwhip were *exactly 1m long* and positioned over a good groundplane, fed an *infinite input impedance*, zero input capacitance voltage follower amp with *unity voltage gain into 50 ohms*, then -115dBm would equate to 0.4uV/m in 24Hz, or .08uV/m/ SQRT Hz. If the value quoted recently of 150dB kTB is assumed, which is 25dB lower that my original calculation, it suggests a value in the region of 4uV / m / SQRT Hz may be more typical. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 12:02, Roelof Bakker wrote: > Hello Andy, > > I measured the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip. > Receiver: SPM-30, BW = 24 Hz, noise level = -115 dBm > > The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revealed a > noise level of -122 dBm. > PERSEUS has an input isolating transformer, which rolls off below 15 kHz, > hence the lower measured noise level. > > It does not look too bad to me, really. > > 73, > Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt > > --0003255574d254ca0804806c0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, but what is the gain / antenna factor of your Miniwhip?=A0
Measuing -115dBm=A0means little=A0in itself, you need to convert this= to a calibrated V/m form.
=A0
IF the miniwhip were exactly 1m long and positioned over a goo= d groundplane,=A0fed an infinite input impedance, zero input capaci= tance voltage follower amp with unity voltage gain into 50 ohms, th= en -115dBm would equate to 0.4uV/m in 24Hz,=A0 or=A0 .08uV/m/ SQRT=A0Hz.= =A0=A0=A0
=A0
If the value quoted recently of 150dB kTB=A0 is assumed, which is 25d= B=A0lower that=A0my original calculation, it=A0suggests a value =A0in the= region of=A0 4uV / m / SQRT Hz may be more typical.
On 25 February 2010 12:02, Roelof Bakker <= roelof@ndb.demon.nl> wrote:
Hello Andy,

I measured= the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip.
Receiver: SPM-30, BW = =3D 24 Hz, noise level =3D -115 dBm

The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revea= led a noise level of -122 dBm.
PERSEUS has an input isolating transform= er, which rolls off below 15 kHz, hence the lower measured noise level.
It does not look too bad to me, really.

73,
Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt


--0003255574d254ca0804806c0060-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF083-5f004b6c6c0523e; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:05:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 87DBB380000B2; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTTQ-0006yU-1Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdTTP-0006yK-Jb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:11 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdTTN-0005fh-Pb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:04:11 +0000 Received: from COL122-W26 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:04:01 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:04:02 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2010 19:04:01.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAAA1970:01CAA695] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_" Subject: LF: PA3FNY X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54548 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b6c6c022201 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_" --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw nice signal of PA3FNY. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw nice signal of PA3FNY.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
=
Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a= plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_ae6fc7ba-f311-43cd-83a5-97b88e1b8d47_-- --_23d24177-a822-4783-b528-341b1e43a20a_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100205_PA3FNY.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAhAmkDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK 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08:39:55 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: khKbo3qswBAevJSEf.Soeh08VpP3pgtFENUUoUzoJw6opDkeTsHZWXMBHg-- X-YMail-OSG: IsZ.ZhAVM1mmI9.Ya3vRtHWxh3FbuW9usEvZC1w7iopavD95SWnfvMZNTAaWUz.EWl7BnJU99IutUCoCNQDOu_q9rq.2_TORsGHVeSDVaqfLCcJtV5yTHjl6.PLFeO7.PzE82M7.zUQkDkNFLsqgO82iSrt5SiX_vBA8SL172P5EmfOWZqBydFR6VuQge8Nu5iNcLp.CKZ0Pqh_lNLfnXuv9WNvtgxKB9u8vyjcNVcVKMg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> From: "Robert Bennett" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:39:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_GREEN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m277.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b8394976cbc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you are considering WSPR, it may be worth looking also at a program= called Laserscatter which is a multitone FSK mode using very low audi= o tones (20-30Hz) . See www.k3pgp.org/lflaser.htm =20 73 Robert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:59 PM Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks= ? Wouldn't that be a nice tool to try >what's possible, for a first st= ep? Stefan, I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.= 5kHz with a bunch of capacitors. One ferrite antenna was used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active spe= aker of the main PC in the shack transmitting the WSPR audio signal. The second ferrite antenna served as RX antenna connected to the mic= input of my notebook, acting as receiver in the living room (a surpri= sed look of the XYL, but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour= ). Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of 15m. OK, it's just a very loose couple transformer. But it works fine and= based on the signal strength (through a couple of walls) there is mor= e in it than 15m. 73, Rik ON7YD ------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you are considering WSPR, it may be wort= h looking=20 also at a program called Laserscatter which is a=20 multitone FSK mode using very low audio tones (20-30Hz) . = See www.k3pgp.org= /lflaser.htm =20
 
73 Robert
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rik Strobbe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 20= 10 10:59=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz=

>But what about that= WSPR mode,=20 everyone was using before some weeks? Wouldn't that be a nice tool= to try=20 >what's possible, for a first step?
 
Stefan,
 
I just did a simple test:=
I took 2 old LW ferrite= antennas and=20 brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz with a bunch of capacitors.
One ferrite antenna was= used as TX=20 antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker of the main PC in the shack tr= ansmitting=20 the WSPR audio signal.
The second ferrite antenn= a served as RX=20 antenna connected to the mic input of my notebook, acting= as=20 receiver in the living room (a surprised look of the XYL, but= she is=20 meanwhile used to my strange behaviour).
Solid copy in WSPR, = over a=20 distance of 15m.
OK, it's just a very loos= e couple=20 transformer. But it works fine and based on the signal strength (thr= ough a=20 couple of walls) there is more in it than 15m.
 
73, Rik =20 ON7YD
------=_NextPart_000_0410_01CAB463.BB671F20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-md06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD063-8b8a4b865f16364; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07B4238000106; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbtF-0002K6-R2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkbtF-0002Jx-5o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkbtD-0003e0-Iz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:21 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4443036bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:28:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=X8nvZXKh8twmfBwUwQYf58aGUduqfuKPm6tQL8z/eps=; b=ijAqy/tIXoYAqfafd1yJLVks+7NyJQg1LYAXxEJWNqEEme3zOFAJQwg5KE94uaFFNr ZrX6f+w9SqXyB5FTL/xRnuJAfa0xYzSq8r+7QQdLbmiAyppcL4j734cGum9QX78ywRw3 jKu4lODOzmjWWAoEYppj8cakq22mfTDxTk5h8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HCqQtrvqSpRIV/B83v8hx90pYAfngxr2Vlaowe5t6P+t8ZmRQ3c7wXYYw7ufGUTTUm I1nhHzK6edCZI56H+2ElJCfQBKJMR7YFfzxepYGrf8B8OCOjbREpe+Y+2DdsDXDff32U lT2+d+E/psyohv48dA0siYqTJWZKSiNALFAeE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.32.74 with SMTP id b10mr664694bkd.38.1267097292799; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:28:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d305.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b865f127cc8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I dunno.... Some 99p headphone 'dongles' from Ebay deserve that sort of treatment. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 25 February 2010 11:16, Chris wrote: > You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wire into your sound card'. > Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* M0FMT > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:38 AM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Ken. > Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and > install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC > to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. > Using SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum > allowing it to be processed by others. > > This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. > > It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and > or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used. > > You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I > can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is getting > better I will be able to get out working on the antenna. > > Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth > electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas because > my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will dissipate > most of the power which means it be getting very very hot and probably fail > and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have been kicked > around on the is reflector and off list there may be something I can try. > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Thu, 25/2/10, Ken * wrote: > > > From: Ken > Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 > > Hi Jim. > I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if > that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could you > put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna > configurations and formulae. > > 73. > Ken > M0KHW IO91TV > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Dear LF Group, > > A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m > > long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up > > in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph > shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for > both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field > antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by > numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, > close > > to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas > was > > very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. > > At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the > home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - > this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases > > at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books > say, > > for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at > low > > frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually > cause > > resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a > turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. > > The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at > > 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable > > loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - > > in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of > > about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated > loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a > Q > > of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of > the antenna would definitely be useful... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000325555bf20881c704806b14d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I dunno....
Some 99p=A0headphone =A0'dongles' from Ebay=A0deserve that so= rt of=A0treatment.
=A0
On 25 February 2010 11:16, Chris <c.ashby435@btinternet= .com> wrote:
You should NEVER 'stick an antenn= a wire into your sound card'.
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
----- Original Message -----
From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010= 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79= kHz

Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket an= d install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application.= You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result in= real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.

This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/= s.
=A0
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/= s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
=A0
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercis= e I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is get= ting better I=A0will be able to get out working on the antenna.
=A0
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12= /13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about= 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be=A0getting very= very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractica= l!=A0Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector and off list= there may be something I can try.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken= <k= en.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
Su= bject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05
Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton ove= r the weekend if
that would help. I have been following this thread wit= h interest, could you
put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacit= or and other antenna
configurations and formulae.

73.
Ken
M0KHW=A0 =A0 IO91TV
<= br>-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14
T= o: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz

Dear LF Group,

A couple of yea= rs ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m
long inv-= L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up
in= the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph=
shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for=
both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-fi= eld
antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surround= ed by
numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, clo= se

to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both= antennas was

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At 10k= Hz, the open=A0 field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the
home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -=
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage inc= reases
at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The te= xt books say,

for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate= at low

frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will= eventually cause

resistance to start increasing - in the case of= the open field antenna, a
turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz.

The= 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at=
9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A su= itable
loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF= -
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H wit= h a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If= you tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with= a Q

of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading cap= acitance of
the antenna would definitely be useful...

Cheers,= Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




--000325555bf20881c704806b14d4-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-md04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD043-8b824b818ddc37e; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:47:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0F7D2380000BA; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHkz-0007C5-PI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjHkz-0007Bw-Cp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjHkw-0004Xj-Vc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:46:21 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1LJkGxN014192 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:46:17 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:46:15 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:44:46 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B02@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: DCF77 QSL card Thread-Index: AcqzH3ijsurjM5xgRpCffiweLrjnjQADtnAC References: <744727.54518.qm@web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.21.193627 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A" Subject: LF: AW: DCF77 QSL card X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55329 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b818dda0a8b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congrats, Andy!! What is your next goal? DCF77 radiates 30kW EIRP if i am informed correctl= y... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR Gesendet: So 21.02.2010 18:47 An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: DCF77 QSL card Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the correct person to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as accurate. I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ 73 to all ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB32E.87724A6A Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhATAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAEwAAAEFXOiBEQ0Y3NyBRU0wgY2Fy ZAD3BAEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAVABQALAAuAAAAZgEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFQAUAC4ADwAAAEkBAQmA AQAhAAAANkExQzhFMEUxRTYzOUM0RDkyM0VDQjVCQjA2N0RBNDUAXAcBA5AGANAOAAA4AAAAAwA2 AAAAAABAADkA6vdlUi6zygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7YT0g O3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjIxMTk0NjE1Wi05MTEAAAAeAEkAAQAAABMAAABM RjogRENGNzcgUVNMIGNhcmQAAEAATgAAXMbgHbPKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZf Z3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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MAILINMB023-a1914b7d078ff2; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:25:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8F9EA380000A3; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2cU-0001lf-7S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2cT-0001lW-SR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:25 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2cS-0006at-2L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:24:25 +0000 Received: from COL122-W54 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:24:15 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: _RSGB_LF Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:24:15 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2010 09:24:15.0478 (UTC) FILETIME=[23B1F960:01CAB07C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_15aafcfd-a509-4e78-9ee0-dd5d1d79473c_" Subject: LF: XKO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55181 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d74b7d078c3402 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_15aafcfd-a509-4e78-9ee0-dd5d1d79473c_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_" --_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! In the enclosure, there is a capture of XKO last night. Lubo=B9, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_265b6a76-d319-439d-9c55-be0f87411229_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
In the enclosure, there is a capture of XKO last night.
Lubo=B9, OK2BVG, JN88KS

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[81.152.103.216] by web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:43:07 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-674318801-1267263787=:23110" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m226.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b88e9877bbf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Warren and thanks=20 =A0 Your comments are well noted along with=A0the good healthy dose of cynicis= m, I like that .... hee hee! =A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler wrote: From: Warren Ziegler Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 1:28 Hi Pete,=20 =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I= suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that was to= receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it must= be considerably closer. =A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:=A0 Q. =A0Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. =A0In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'round= ! --=A0 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1 =A0=A0 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: Hi Warren =A0 Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment= there is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come= from this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite read= able at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time. =A0 73 es GL petefmt=20 -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wr= ote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice =20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Warren and thanks
 
Yo= ur comments are well noted along with the good healthy dose of cynici= sm, I like that
..= .. hee hee!
&n= bsp;
73= es GL petefmt


--- On Sat, 27/2/10, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.co= m> wrote:

From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com><= BR>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Saturday, 27 February,= 2010, 1:28

Hi Pete,=20

          Yes I guess I engaged in a bi= t of hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but= not by much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible it= must be considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics reminds of= the old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism?=
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other wa= y 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
          &nb= sp;    WD2XGJ 
           =    WD2XSH/23
             = ;  WE2XEB/2
               = ;WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President= is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of our= book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am not expect= ing DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF Amateur= community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a lon= g road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is enoug= h enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this debat= e on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/= 2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz= up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this= continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt=20

--------------------------------------------------
= From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com<= /A>>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2= ORS
              WD2XGJ
 =             WD2XSH/23
    &nbs= p;         WE2XEB/2
        &nb= sp;     WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jac= ek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.o= rg> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapth= orn wrote:

People may be interested in the= reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFC= OM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Re= gs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Ho= wever in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequ= ency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vl= f spectrum,
they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without= any license from the radio
authorities. the only regulation they need= regards maximum field strengths
(and this is usually the realm of some= environmental protection authority
and not the radio authority). the= operating frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)
sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not= to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will
ne= ed a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it= is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission= from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9= kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entir= ely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the= answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice

=











=20 --0-674318801-1267263787=:23110-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB023-a1914b69c9943e4; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:08:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C42F38011656; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:35:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nck2x-0005T7-4H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nck2w-0005Sy-Pc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:50 +0000 Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nck2u-0001tF-Kd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:50 +0000 Received: from omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.72]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dQpG1d0081ZXKqc51WZhmd; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:33:41 +0000 Received: from DELL4 ([76.23.233.102]) by omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dWad1d00D2DDHkk3hWadUE; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:34:38 +0000 Message-ID: <00af01caa4ff$2df028d0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> From: To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b69c1e71058 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Albert Will keep an ear open for your 15 wmp cw. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Hello Jay and others, > > I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at > 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. > I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, > where useful. > > 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM > Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.223]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB061-a6fc4b892f5d3a9; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:42:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D716538000349; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNr8-0000ZA-CZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNr8-0000Z1-1o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from mout1.freenet.de ([195.4.92.91]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNr6-0005IN-Ts for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.26] (helo=16.mx.freenet.de) by mout1.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NlNr4-0005p9-Q3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:18 +0100 Received: from blfd-4db0f2d4.pool.mediaways.net ([77.176.242.212]:2673 helo=[192.168.178.21]) by 16.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #2) id 1NlNr4-0005oJ-Bt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:18 +0100 Message-ID: <4B892F0B.9040604@freenet.de> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:41:15 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Wolfgang_B=FCscher?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40df4b892f5b25b4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Stefan, Thanks for the proposals, and the boost of activity. I have passed on a=20 few notes to the yahoo VLF group, so if you have more details about the=20 kite antenna experiments (or even a schedule) please let us know. RX equipment (SDR-IQ and Perseus, plus various active antennas) already=20 geared up here; and even the 'quiet RX location' (DF0WD / DK4U) is=20 accessable by car again, since the snow disappeared. It may be a bit=20 optimistic to expect reception here in JO42FD, but who knows... Cheers, Wolf . Stefan Sch=E4fer schrieb: > Dear group,=20 > =20 > It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b66b2b822b; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 05:53:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9507E38000121; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 05:53:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbtsa-0001hE-8S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NbtsZ-0001h5-TB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NbtsW-0005ww-Rv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX500M6XSTL4U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:51:22 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:51:14 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <2FDF8670A8F84B64B9432C2C4F0D1966@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 01-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b66b2b672ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w)" --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Nice capture VX9MRC 50777khz, Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 01-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Nice capture VX9MRC 50777khz,
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 01-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4Ushk2c9W3iJmMjOFSGj9w)-- --Boundary_(ID_u3hsuNe5Dg064xKVW9Q1UA) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 01-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 01-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABIAzIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBgcI/8QAGAEAAwEB AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfkjMx99acbnRaXMz252eKLGzMcx2uZo ThqOcK1w0wKugqqjNrUju9ucZlpEFMs2mnRpRpJjt2QFuW2ospaWnBV2p4ytEFXRXW5QjmpB uJfpx06cp6rKCiU787+Xlq8CbvnmdUyQtUzRqIGE3qwuWiduK7luYimQBo5zNQq2qiW3I6Gd B66iJBWcbnOQlWWItb1uWLKDe3ns1e/CzPkyfma5ElGk9OvEVL0ZUdDFqyOpUusnfpn81fds q9RfFXyr0EGM/LCGB1G7O3K6vfzmMt2W3LBaNMCoEm6cwzfRRnHRjRPiMzgJuoITLVRssG1n 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhOXj-0005Z4-4E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:51 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhOXg-0001eg-N7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:51 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so3296842bwz.29 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:36:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oIsVgyEoSRlj1W4HwC5Y/EHku4XgkSdrAvTArJ+NOWk=; b=YPQNcrcBTSZSCZZ2cgeZRbysQmeeOEfL8CVs2Ac4LZP5FMchIuzHHZAJv6bHLVbveB GGZi/eblaOSrYK2WLyVU+XlRrPunI6z0aFgiPxSCri14r/jQG1M1iQR2M3a4WIHIyNx/ J68FQkU9zjA6IxO+I42Beui67bRhsXcpjAMoU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=MwHpMf04KaA3c4exVhvASgJ0h1TbE9Q+Z3CqTKMLLAQPrgQmFND7zMCFgxRfTFWY53 +5aeqsjUr5P6M74bZNOx9UJIoWjIr2Cg7OrnQ9uJZuQrNFQ1zkghIqsKPVnkphPENLlC lEHSYLOaQPHfvyBNVPhlAvSoOa5YQhKTIW/cI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.152 with SMTP id g24mr4017860bkw.205.1266331001578; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:36:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <000e01caaf04$cdfbed50$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:36:41 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002160636l75a94554p6f0696e153790f56@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500 more Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d308.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b7aade369b6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Interesting thought Mal. I wonder how OFCOM would react to a request for a larger UK allocation? I wonder how many 500kHz NoVs have been allocated and how many people are active. 73s Roger G3XBM On 16 February 2010 12:37, mal hamilton wrote: > With the recent influx of PA stations, new ones appearing every day, > it might be the time to request a larger 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough > for QSO purposes, also a reduction in unattended BEACON acty would be > useful to avoid qrm. > When acty increases and more countries permit 500 operations there will not > be enough space. > Receiver selectivity also needs to be checked, the old TRF sets will have > to go. > 73 de mal/g3kev > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting thought Mal.

I wonder how OFCOM would react to a reque= st for a larger UK allocation? I wonder how many 500kHz NoVs have been all= ocated and how many people are active.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 16 February 2010 12:37, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktal= k.net> wrote:
=A0=A0=A0With the recent influx of PA= =20 stations, new ones appearing every day, it might be the time to request a= larger=20 500 band, 3 Khz is barely enough for QSO purposes, also a reduction in=20 unattended =A0BEACON=A0acty would be useful to avoid qrm.
When acty increases and more countrie= s permit 500=20 operations there will not be enough space.
Receiver selectivity also needs to be= checked, the=20 old TRF sets will have to go.
73 de mal/g3kev
=A0
=A0



--

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http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d0336846491047fb8a9c8-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.207]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB101-85fc4b8402a7290; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:32 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDD77380002E1; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxdi-0001zd-7N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxdh-0001zU-IV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:37 +0000 Received: from web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxdh-00056a-3d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 57980 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266942569; bh=ePOKNteRBhkf8tutbJVyO3oAk/2XkOpVepGilZiXm4w=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=V0ANNrK7tvg4FUFr3qMnidYVIv4no4rgSoP2qD12WMaQBjspMn/c3mBqHdGemAqvroVlj9s06IsCoVbgmceYV92nN92ozLW2Vwgq0Ye9IPiDgtL+forfXX/sno26OSaCZpEdUmKISA3MP2XN9BYx9rPpi98/4DSkrXXu0TA1QbI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VqxOrFZ4YxcnYqVAlN8TTpyRFosTr6HncaK6z8YassRQzM24NskkaqT+p54bQRqWP3ye8e2sjzdlMmKaqPZXh0KEZkxr4U4N41O5GdnG3+gEbFmdMHp9nefM83bfyeC9xTDz+ohc4siA63yMJAQGRTKtjalMMQ/TUNC0gHjOm4I=; Message-ID: <901121.57930.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pOtFEHsVM1lPF9_cH20nqQaOXhh23TWwUSI5F8DRFyVf6Fl2s9dWzMrRBUuciXd9LvOYR6vPO6_qtHqHeBsy03PsVuWSnEMBt61x8ff_a0KyMzbX.tpFOiMv.6rFBrt9uG6G0ey0plXJZeXGkKeLka8vRdjxE8jGaurnotuGjT4J3fDWdBeaEtMwZPOQK0tgP0QUlQWyAsmV.5YhHxyFhszA9ILfO3ZcfjumT9PxcCCF7WBejldR4hpRu2kVx3A6rqB5MnhtwLoYd15G Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:29:29 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <029701cab49c$719d1be0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: RE: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d227.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cf4b8402a45c31 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not quite to the "Death " Jim but untill they start twisting my wrist.....= .:-))) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Tue, 23/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: LF: RE: DATA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:25 Hi Mal =C2=A0 See annotations below for my comments and observations. =C2=A0 Thanks for CW QSO on Sunday too With best regards =C2=A0 Jim =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net =C2=A0 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 23 February 2010 14:50 To: rsgb Subject: LF: DATA=20 =C2=A0 Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Yes indeed.=C2=A0 I worked some good Dx last week during= half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again =C2=A0 Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. Lots of strong= US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. = =C2=A0G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO= but its busy =C2=A0 =C2=A0 What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions= but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I think AMTOR= , Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really= routine QSO modes in general but more service modes. =C2=A0RTTY remains= popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine. =C2=A0(Only= my opinion) =C2=A0 Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty= wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are= still going strong.=C2=A0 I see that there are still many users of all mo= des including AM on topband,=C2=A0 We have a thriving top band AM net in= Bedfordshire even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Some will argue that cw and rtty are data. =C2=A0They are or at least RTTY= is =C2=A0 =C2=A0but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, pac= ket and all the JT, wspr etc, =C2=A0=C2=A0Hardly fly by night Mal, if you= visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to= 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly= fly by night. =C2=A0JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its= been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500. =C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.=C2=A0 Pro= bably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday aft= er all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of differenc= e between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! =C2= =A0Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio! =C2=A0 Also as you know with JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can=E2=80=99t he= ar =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. Obviously?=C2= =A0 To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ.=C2=A0= There=E2=80=99s more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up.=C2=A0= Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances= (me included and I=E2=80=99m a QRP newbie!). =C2=A0If one was to look at= the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my gues= s that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc.=20 =C2=A0 It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, Most of the MF ops I= know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be ref= erring to me in which case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!= =C2=A0J =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! =C2=A0They said that about T/A on 73KHz,= walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinn= ing jenny! =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Mal, put that clog down or you=E2=80=99ll get= transported to the colonies =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out.=C2=A0I hav= e a suitable RX and antenna.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I for one am looking into it, and= I indeed have the appliances for Rx. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Your observations ?=C2=A0 there you have them.=C2=A0=C2=A0 None of which= are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, =E2=80=9C I= disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your= right to say it=E2=80=9D (or at least words to that effect!) =C2=A0 de G3KEV=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 73s de G7NKS (Jim) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not quite to the "Death " Jim but untill th= ey start twisting my wrist......:-)))

73 es GL petefmt

---= On Tue, 23/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>= wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: LF: RE: DATA
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Dat= e: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:25

Hi Mal=

 =

See annotations belo= w for my comments and observations.

 =

Thanks for CW QSO on= Sunday too

With best regards

=  

Jim

=  

=  

Dr. James Cowburn

E <= /FONT>james.cowburn@virgin.net

=  

From:= owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton
Sent: 23= February 2010 14:50
To: rsgb
Subject: LF: DAT= A

 

Generally band condx vy good at present from LF= to HF as far as 24 Mcs. &n= bsp;  Yes indeed.  I worked some good Dx last week during= half term on 17m/15m and 24m, perhaps the old soleil is firing up again

 =

Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong= USA stns. Lots of strong= US stations on 40m thru 15m, though CW portions plagued with contests. &n= bsp;G3XIZ is running CW tests on his H/B 40m Tx on 7.030 and we can QSO bu= t its busy

 =

 =

What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor= and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years.<= FONT color=3Dnavy>   I think AMTOR,= Packet and PACTOR have been superseded by e-mail as they were not really= routine QSO modes in general but more service modes.  RTTY remains= popular as it is easy to set up, tx friendly and works fine.  (Only= my opinion)

 =

Observations indicate that data mode acty does= not last long, the novelty wares (sp wears) off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SS= B and RTTY are still going strong.  I see that there are still many users of all modes including= AM on topband,  We have a thriving top band AM net in Bedfordshire= even though it is plagued by some QRM from HtG.    =

 =

 =

Some will argue that cw and rtty are data.  They are or at least RTT= Y is

 =

 but I am referring to the fly by night da= ta modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,   Hardly fly by night Mal, if you= visit the WSPR website and see the activity on all bands from LF thru to= 6m and the number of spots and users increasing all the time, its hardly= fly by night.  JT etc are used by EME lot too as you know, and its= been used by me for the mighty total of two QSOs on 500.   

 =

 =

tuning across the bands today I did not hear an= y of these modes.  Pro= bably because most of the users are out at work today, it is a Tuesday aft= er all! I would be out at work were it not for a slight issue of differenc= e between my old CEO and his investors resulting in our liquidation!! &nbs= p;Hey ho. Back to the CV writing in between forarys on the radio!

 =

Also as you know wit= h JT and WSPR, you can Rx signals you can=E2=80=99t hear =

 =

Obviously the majority of ham operators are not= interested. Obviously?&nbs= p; To you maybe and that is your opinion but I would beg to differ. = There=E2=80=99s more and more WSPR users coming on to 500 and up. = Several users have tried and succeeded with JT4A QSOs over good distances= (me included and I=E2=80=99m a QRP newbie!).  If one was to look at= the adoption vs time curve for modes such as WSJT and WSPR, it is my gues= s that it would far outperform those similar curves for SSB/CW etc.

 =

It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Opera= tor, Most of the MF ops I= know barring me have all built their own gear, so I think you must be ref= erring to me in which case n=3D1, sorry Mal but the stats are collapsing!!=  J

 =

 =

and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!  They said that about T/A on 73KHz,= walking on the moon, travelling faster than 30mph on trains and the spinn= ing jenny!    Mal, put that clog down or you=E2=80=99ll get= transported to the colonies

 =

 =

If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I= will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.   I for one am looking into it, an= d I indeed have the appliances for Rx.  <= /DIV>

 =

 =

 =

Your observations ?  there you have them.   None of which= are intended to change your mind, as Voltaire himself said, =E2=80=9C I= disagree vehemently with your opinion but I will defend to the death your= right to say it=E2=80=9D (or at least words to that effect!)

 

de G3KEV 

 =

73s de G7NKS (Jim)

 

 


=20 --0-1378786686-1266942569=:57930-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b7a0df114e; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:16:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23AC83800021C; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhDt3-0004LQ-GO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhDt3-0004LH-0c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:09 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhDt1-0005lg-1Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:14:08 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W4 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:13:56 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:13:55 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2010 03:13:56.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[135C56E0:01CAAEB6] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_" Subject: LF: Electrical power meters interference? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b7a0df00f2e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Im suffering from ac wiring in house power load variable pulsing wideband= car ignition type noise from 100-200kHz and Im pretty sure its coming fr= om a electrical mechanical single phase 120/240 VAC with an EMR modules el= ectrical power meter (900 MHz or so read meter data) - The model is the AB= 1R from ABB, thou marketed and sold under license by many here in the US.= Its inducing these v/m pulses but seems amplitude versus load variable -= I cant see any change in the pulse shape per se and the NB on the R75 doe= s take it out to some effect. Anyone had a similar issue before I take it= to the powers that be...I note there is a PLT model and hoping (as my ele= c compnay says its read at 950... =20 I note the specs says its bomb proof the other way from 100khz up so maybe= Ive got a duff'un.... =20 Laurence KL1X Wasilla =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Im suffering from ac wiring in house power load variable pulsing wideband= car ignition type noise from 100-200kHz  and Im pretty sure its comi= ng from a electrical mechanical single phase 120/240 VAC with an EMR modul= es electrical power meter (900 MHz or so read meter data) - The model is= the AB1R from ABB, thou marketed and sold under license by many here in= the US. Its inducing these v/m pulses but seems amplitude versus load var= iable - I cant see any change in the pulse shape per se and the NB on the= R75 does take it out to some effect. Anyone had a similar issue before I= take it to the powers that be...I note there is a PLT model and hoping (a= s my elec compnay says its read at 950...
 
I note the specs says its bomb proof the other way from 100khz up so maybe= Ive got a duff'un....
 
Laurence KL1X Wasilla

Hotmail: Free,= trusted and rich email service. Get it now. =3D --_6ecbd859-b66d-4fe1-87ad-942791edf118_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC064-a9764b743d17217; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:23:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 278DA380000FD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfckJ-0000dn-OE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfckJ-0000de-Bn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: from smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfckH-0003hD-BL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 23690 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 17:22:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=Dd386IXnkn0DRRlFHgVffAoco8wPt1y66UrnTkc7MergHxp3VqEuhRoykoyfvg5z5x/Q1wLWPtw71AAq4A51uHJee2NPfsWsY2KgRaYPhcEG5+NX/vhoHmlrDpnO/GkMLCCSwv47/OVldOH216XL1IFrv0ASQAk1r8Mm/l54ghM= ; Received: from unknown (HELO DennisPC) (dennis.easterling@86.154.67.245 with login) by smtp822.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 17:22:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: H_MJu2qswBDkdHeCAZfwexko6VNOiMP5URzYEvz3WrE5v1grQm6fnvJecjM9 X-YMail-OSG: DKbonYEVM1mhl.x_2kAT0GgJCDoBWgN5lLqsQPDtL0C3zqIy.yb7ekP7bXxVdBbN0OUvvY_UVQ4K3q2zf4gsONVaC_0Ih7WRSm1nYzSRdATrYcvtoXYa7_oPoGeZ7LJcKnQmHLQxUuKuWC8gi6XjzQWd86oNkilSk0dS27cQMyT.6UhWWac4qmgoV.q0YrS9OaCxjquMdfSYxVZ4C2UmvIqdTsZz0OfPYs9IsZbPkVk- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> From: "DENNIS EASTERLING" To: Cc: "Peter M0FMT" References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:22:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b743d1603ab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Dominic Congrats. on getting your NOV for 600m. I understand that you have been receiving OK, if so you are halfway there as the sigs are so weak compared with noise. I use various loops and a PA0RDT mini-whip for receiving. The latter seems to be the best all round solution for me. My TX antenna is a 'T' type 10m vertical (though zig-zags a bit before entering the shack) with a 19.5m top (longest I can get in my garden). Using a GW3EUP tx running just over 20w, I can qso Finbar in Derry Ireland, and have been reported by a German listener in Cuxhaven. 73 Dennis M0JXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Baines" To: "rsgb lf group" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM Subject: LF: New NoV > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi05.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.163]) by air-dc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC073-86534b6f2cea30; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:13:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07A353800018F; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEQb-000557-Md for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEQb-00054y-7K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEQa-0004Bp-BR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:25 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207211217.EKGO10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:12:17 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEQS-00032N-JA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:12:16 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:12:14 -0000 Message-ID: <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOJCIY7CqvhitRJGEjQ/lO3UtCQAAYaSw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=9h1oTapCOFi4V8hbF4UA:9 a=-t_hQhnN4edjbtOWauAA:7 a=4nE5vRYeBBnMIZmuDmOcuaNNhacA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=ofdOR0lsp1mH5ZkT:21 a=DfME3qigyaikbomG:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vwiN2YWM253eC6NsM2AA:9 a=FBr99woiLJvSfguLakoA:7 a=s8-yE-PuRvEDAjL5cuRKC8xyjsEA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecd4b6f2ce87072 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I'll stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 20:59 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. 73, Gary - G3WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, I’ll= stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may= be improving

 

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 20:59
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a ver= y weak trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the sign= al.

 

73, Gary - G3W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld= .com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0
202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *
202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

 

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAA83A.38DA98A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.142]) by air-md03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD033-8b7e4b7077131dc; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:41:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EB9E53800034A; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeaPG-0001JF-3A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeaPF-0001J6-HO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:29 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeaPE-00046p-77 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:40:29 +0000 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o18KeKX0014099 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:40:20 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.d5c.5be74f04 (43906) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from Black (g229229148.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.229.148]) by cia-dc07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC073-ab824b7076a210c; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:40:05 -0500 Message-ID: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:39:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608e4b7077115857 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both= ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shuttin= g down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probab= ly because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be= singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good tra= ces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it look= s like the=20 Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains = ;(5930=20 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Caribo= u and=20 Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with=20 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01CAA907.387CD210-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.201]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b8401ec28a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:27:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F0F3538000055; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:27:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxaP-0001vB-4I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxaO-0001v2-PQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxaL-00053T-N4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:26:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1NGQ4Ff022380 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:26:05 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00245 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:30:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:30:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <792299.21067.qm@web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:26:06 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94b8401e278c5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > Nice comment from Alex on near-field....long time since we heard from > you last Alex or maybe I dont read the group enough. Unfortunely i have very few time for ham radio. But i read this group regulary. Usualy i don't write here now. But about VLF i wonder to point out that for near field antenna voltage is more worth then power. Current is too small... Also it is funny that in such a condition signal don't depend on frequency at all! See the formula. But certanly the lower freq the more noise from power lines (50 Hz) in RX point. All of this is obviously in framework of electrostatics. But it is absolutely unusual for radio. Hi. Seems it is a good task for a student to analyse such a problem. Practicaly it is good idea to use high voltage ferrite transformer from old TV set to get high voltage on TX antenna. Make few turns additionaly as primary wireing is not a problem, big secondary wireing is ready in such a transformer. Few km seems to be real. But it is too dificult radiate vlf for large distance in ham conditions. One need real radiation (not 'electrostatic' field) for this. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b6f3315287; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:39:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1D75638000273; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEpx-0005oX-8M for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEpw-0005oO-PC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:36 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEpt-0004Ve-JS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:38:36 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4707501pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:38:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=chcqRtsgvRi0ZudRGt09yKak514n7UYa1JIxb9KNCZs=; b=Z7Ai1Hfp77GSl4iOpImQ7p4MZ7r69uTCkkuGw/TQu2qdqKRjBVJgjYbr4+vl+RMIEb IA2Njzs/LjMm9/F7pxtbd9XQ8rtQTLKEC8uCm3vZjAjQaQOumxrNlmzDdTCPApm/Rpa3 Ng9mhmTHmvBqyi+j+Z2bfKqBTGN//tdNOL6aI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=ll6gxMEDOvtPEAqLEOVcp4Kpr4exDqwIaZprQXN+wgjsq+JcvAo/GC3qJabFFUk++e iwEraWxDOjcIGn7S+svVG8qucBWBfxJIb/y1sM7q/6sQhDX1FEeUuJSEO/qoyXol2F+Z II/m535nX4Ddmap6S2PYijNRnF6tgQ67xVT/o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.88.13 with SMTP id q13mr3939265rvl.45.1265578706010; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:38:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <1f0624b91002071259k537adcbfwab3066ff5e19f820@mail.gmail.com> <006001caa83a$38da98a0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:38:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cd258e21d833293a Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071338m54bc9e3cqb699f928dcee280e@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b6f33136bcf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, Thanks for staying on, it paid off with full 2 way & confirmation. OK, you can go WSPRing now. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:12, James Cowburn wrote: > Ok, Il stick at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you > are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving > > > > > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 20:59 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very weak trace on the waterfa= ll > but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal. > > > > 73, Gary - G3WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Thanks for staying on, it paid off with full 2 way= & confirmation.

OK, you can go WSPRing now.<= /div>

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 21:12, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wr= ote:

Ok, I=92ll stick= at it for another 30 mins or so see if I get thru, as you are up to -10dB now so condx may be improving

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Thanks for info, Jim (G7NKS) is showing a very wea= k trace on the waterfall but appears to be improving but also getting QSB on the signal.<= /span>

=A0

73, Gary - G3WGT.

On 7 February 2010 20:35, James Moritz <james.moritz@bt= openworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF= Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

=A0


--000e0cd13a663504b8047f0981d5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE024-5ea94b8308ca16; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:44:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2FC5A380000F1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njh03-0005u4-BL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njh02-0005tn-7T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:34 +0000 Received: from web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njh01-0006G3-W6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:43:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 41011 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:43:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266878608; bh=FZ8k6Q8mFjhjFHnprbwlSxOst6HCKdGdWjfr7UOww9w=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QxZJw1bVQEMXfWBJ3bNufYQdMlx7c9kAQ6bKvqfwCbLpClFvTZNEqzZxHlwxZ0OEe0NPDU+2p2JHWDNxUIhWKBt2K56vIl+9VcBdYa865f17dOMVJm+uBKl12eAQwChK9OYxcD63KvCGGIpVhyYyB4f10gu/vopVMH7czQQDpKU= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eKORxiY8zywFdEAv6DuOeTrDS2AkwUdv/YHzDVxzcgLGb/8hTXovOoOZTDsmEyV/xqF/WiSDnD1OvrEdzWFjG/3KBAMEjfuSbDfBHC+/87XR+jXmy+I9HEYCa0ay5au/cT9r5Wv3NRV0lnYnv2CqNuQ+GXXMXJYwd1I+XeNykUc=; Message-ID: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: eNj1OyMVM1nQjY9zJ.RiAosBDQOdsYVZHsvD5CpOq1QjMfGL4pJmTWNo2y8PgYJEQejqFzG0YIShlSAbQf43qEEmGXj0sEc_8uly5m6Sr4Nc3f3xMYaL9eQGSH.d8M2pcuGSygazoCDflCSO3CTpG2L.LRfq85tT7dthQzzM1piu2uY8_GH.AX5BWqOcksRgdrdcLxagpw94WvkkkuEgj65JsFmPqKue_sbypDVX0thkkFN7WBZFeI8F4raIerAQgGX0uUZqaypNbO4VFd_uvtW6 Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:43:28 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:43:28 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m242.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b8308c7288d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep Rik =A0 So how do=A0I load it? =A0 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =A0 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =A0 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =A0 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=A0is= a=A0lot of pontificating on this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I= am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help= , ideas-wise.=A0 If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels above=A0there are=A0LF sta= tions who may cooperate in doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away= possibly G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 =A0 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length,=A0in the conventional way is not the answer. =A0 So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, =A0 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. =A0 73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T =A0 Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group =A0 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it wo= uld act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before meltin= g.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watt= s of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB= designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=  is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this sub= ject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenn= a and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels above the= re are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7= NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction= of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 
<= /DIV>
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe <Ri= k.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven= .be>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 February, 20= 10, 21:24

Pete,
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a= resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen't get= hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" = ; on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10,= James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.n= et>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: owne= r-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf= Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.<= BR>
I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz,= let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
      &nbs= p;         WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/= 23
                WE2XEB/2
=                 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>= Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to<= BR>contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rem= ember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by Intern= ational Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays= , and no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be dif= ferent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer=
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <Stefan= .Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79= kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is= best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna with= out the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>= > you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, somet= hing arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if= you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden= , say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a<= BR>>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>&g= t; that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will= still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>&g= t; same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> mak= e some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be= much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>>= And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the=
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03,= schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency,= widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>>= probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to ho= w these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers= from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I belie= ve) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) -= see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't= expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) av= ailable
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to=
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous= power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>= ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/= 2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>> &nb= sp; Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That soun= ds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs=
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
&g= t;> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>= ;> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>&g= t; in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF= bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mou= nted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from= 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>>= matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results,= of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
&= gt;> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&= gt;> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________= __________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
&g= t;>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>=     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconin= g on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamat= eur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz= is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not beli= eve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>= > a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> lice= nce. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>><= BR>>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= ; bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _________________________________________= __________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000= ,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de= /go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= ;> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3x= bm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk<= /A>
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      = ;ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------= ----
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Um= weltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenhe= imer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>&= gt; schaefer@iup.uni-heidel= berg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49)= (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
= >




=20 --0-1538167000-1266878608=:37812-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE072-5ebb4b8803503cb; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:22:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B015C38000093; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:22:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3sP-0007Bb-QE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3sP-0007BS-0F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl3sL-0007Qm-N7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:20 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so280828bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:21:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=MO7VnfHd6/2pVO91IetBRzVJXcEXmTwrAEku2sHpues=; b=DmEanumGBanggh5om8P83h2FO5WABArW3Nnp3e5KO6iwbdm59L44Ib76OSIoYeXv/3 TCWuOdhOuOIZQBBcIy4gvb46WUGjo1jMHSR2P/m0OO5ev7WyZXxO89Qadauv7qTqqWNa 12ES3RFvqu/PexVACRzulBro8QhVLT04kkHs8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ADeOUdyUUH4GtpGiOsl/yKk4+JhRh3go0R77KNaTomL2Ab4R/70D5p8RbpW/6dUlUX gTZAVf+8XqQotWJ4ZlpFQWnZRl3srDqutUK7nAJ6zh5SI9NME9YaD6wJSX4fqdXm3xY3 lixIJhLXqTsUo7kDQIXhNLDOY5Q4sRqXzMa1M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.85 with SMTP id w21mr462597bks.174.1267204869765; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:21:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:21:09 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d284.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b88034e735c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 WSPR looks at the energy in 1.5Hz bins, or chunks, and effectively filters the signal to this bandwidth. If the noise impulses ar eof significantly shorter duration, they will be smeared outas well as reduced i magnitude and probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73kHz the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going for coherent signalling. The path should be very stable so you shoul dbe able to retian coherency for hours. Use GPS timing and at that frequency you can get an absolutely coherent local reference and timing, so try long duration PSK, with symbol timings based on ten second intervals, or minutes. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 17:07, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > *Two questions...* > > (1) *Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried deep > in impulsive noise like sferics?* It seems that most of the natural noise > at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Perhaps there > are certain modulation types that are well suited to get through for this > sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but would value the > views of people like Andy. > > (2) *Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonable that > they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiated, conducted > or inducted) which could be sources of interference?* We all appreciate > that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field signals can be a > significant interference source and over a considerable (local) distance at > these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be interference to > telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pipe tracing systems. > If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some leads for > investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > >> > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level >> > >> > Dear LF, >> > >> > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise >> background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using >> my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, >> calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would >> depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate >> averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I >> arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz >> (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). >> >> Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for >> industrial noise. >> >> > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to >> > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. >> >> Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical >> study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics >> noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory >> assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional >> filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one >> should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is >> very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my >> web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is >> very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 >> kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. >> But i don't test it. >> >> Regards, >> Alexander/RA9MB >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WSPR looks at the energy in 1.5Hz bins, or chunks, and effectively fi= lters the signal to this bandwidth.=A0=A0 If the noise impulses ar eof sig= nificantly shorter duration, they will be smeared outas well as reduced i= magnitude and probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian.=A0=A0=A0= =A0 Certainly, on 73kHz the impulsive Loran interference and natural spike= s appeared completely Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we us= ed there.=A0
=A0
However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by go= ing for coherent signalling.=A0The path=A0should be very stable so you sho= ul dbe able to retian coherency for hours.=A0Use GPS timing and at that fr= equency you can get an absolutely coherent local reference and timing, so= try long duration PSK, with symbol timings based on ten second intervals,= or minutes.
=A0
On 26 February 2010 17:07, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@= gmail.com> wrote:
Two questions...
(1) Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried de= ep in impulsive noise like sferics? It seems that most of the natural= noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Pe= rhaps there are certain modulation types that are well suited to get throu= gh for this sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but wo= uld value the views of people like Andy.

(2) Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonab= le that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiat= ed, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference? We= all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field sign= als can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (loca= l) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be= interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pi= pe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some= leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov= <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
> Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
>
> Dear LF,
>
> sometime back in 2000 I attempted to me= asure the daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html= ). I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective= height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assu= ming that it would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectro= gram with moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible im= pulsive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m refere= nced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo).

Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is ob= vious for
industrial noise.

> Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was= essential to
> maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception.

=
Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theore= tical
study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics
= noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theoryassumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional
filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one<= br>should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing= is
very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject= on my
web page www.qsl.ne= t/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is
very theoretica= l:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9
kHz. Such= a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me.
But i don't test it.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.= com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.= uk
= http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 = =A0ISWL G11088

--0015173fe5bc1eba2704808420ca-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE072-5ebb4b6a941733f; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:32:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0259638000140; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncxyx-00020a-NX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncxyx-00020R-Bz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncxyt-0007D7-Ak for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:26:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXB005QF8VWQ1@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:26:20 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:26:16 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6a940e5dde X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw)" --Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 04-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_4LZdUswbDJQY+hbDkBVZtw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 04-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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64GoDYbVprvt2eyMrKDQwstbt+B81FPE870LJF07OoKM6F/oPsxeEzzQ0FysYvkjUQ6Me1Av 11LIJRnd4jgCe0H2SxLIGNl7tgW5K54BqRaqYGXOC2BwKRiSxBVdBnIju4CErqEmihbnrXPF iapQBnnIQr1RrERbwrHTeeolFUHEPKtpi4Vqu0vfYI7lKR7e5vCa6liZZ4DzTrmeZTsaORiF fhB44dSVGHe+ZcVxLesYzT13FWUjJGlUs68RZXklpXRlbNXupZ1SDK/8UIDXZg/NxzJ9cV82 P5GfaFyE5MjTxNVC7maQPaRc/aGtNh7tP4H0a7btaustuXUa0IbNYfrUwiSoPYwYvOXZxXGo QHgrlX5igdWBrCc6wp9xG/7m8Jo1hmMP4NV3jquNVDe7uIFCoUMXN1oBoddMIvcbC2/mKl0c hrq5e2UGVbV1v5dR5AQ2UFP1FBcrAVV8QWDS8B96qZwOXNxi23AuM5UqkaISdmoP/kIzU9za CaqZHUYEylgV6jBTbuAoBrFjj6gFyOYFVly9SuRglUcdvmDSwJaKrWT5ZhKylKTPVr5mqK3F MQQ1gmX+Q2gD5V+49jy6S9/OiJoArUqGmQU7n244l4FqC53foiAtfDiWgLK2uPDPEKpud269 Qop9LXEs7c6LiAOzl6n2YBj3LQ25jesBVpdfUWmqspi5Sj7TY9yr5m0nOwI7YSOCrDaDg6A+ oyGXNQXCg5XX2Y2AdbaJztFNAOI0pV1rf6YXM3YlQYiQfYq6gIllg2epuYH8NTDs8QDTXxcb FTseCv5XqYgJHDYTTGckU4i8JMrI+YOsKoFx/wCwwnxW6XEb7Vfdy25bd8wLSkbytWZVHhqU 2N1Y1CVVqm+PiLU4OKqAWCgywrnk2fcooBcXuUNwFNp2OZfGGkaqftxGNVK11FYFKw3Z1/7K qpStZm6Sdsrqw0LqLgLl9Smm4UEzTuGRjsGrlh22y2gYNeJpIzdraMAbL+7hitrlvMarPxcV irtuLEEQd3YRjaVeWW1CW3AB6azZMq65ioKWHEFxDbdv3qVc1q8RmovYRFy28rKAvTMfCCX5 l5zcYC0NDpNWWIWYgvDAG7bgLZvKMoKEHhjF1zO3MUV9AGFCxX+xanApLIr3mbvuxjBCu13L xEVij4iZKr5ipl+4bfM0fkmn4OZzNT8mcobmpCcI6jHSG04Tb8H4NM4R/Hv+RujOIR0fkTmG mMOpwTSM6nMdIxnc0hxGMNThmr8RxOJxHf4P/j//2Q== --Boundary_(ID_+3MKYV7qpD78v+0yTUILYA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB054-a5bc4b8ad8b719d; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:57:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1FB8638000084; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlqBa-0001GE-D7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlqBa-0001G5-2o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: from web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.130]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlqBX-0001mm-W1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 64384 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2010 20:56:14 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267390574; bh=zjk5U+Ns/1qBvEngFHx0Ml2CuEMK8FBz/p7S+BEtjV8=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IRYuBFLIO/O/VUIr3m8eRri14Xid+kW7P2J6bsMIfOcUPyS/rRltizCBIBdhqPz//1Z+IkXUlXy7AkZ3RtWk/ZumCsQVT2PZiJFzOWLOfjMlVkNnIBCaa1De7tdaePA+TFm/27zH1gt9ggziLoVlXPvDMgiFFod6mZB0LFsfWuk= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kTbdtn8Jqm5WQOM1Xtj8SS0ebhZTaC4YiUahfN5gaPay4G6IHX2W/paiQcLw6vvwjauhIk5I+Z+FLrqNieA+X+gwsJuzBQjBytikA+J9JvVFxx1K+OhVFNjquu61S53S43C8fdfRCmsdlip5J2K97SoRLNIS4PFQ9bE2/KRiGVc=; Message-ID: <17354.62992.qm@web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6YjJ_oAVM1nfFqh7iFZ18LiovheX9up02Buq2OH2vB5Z7vqj5irbGCa0yZpAQyn_ExZWJ8U3VbzsCyzetDl7u4iymRaHdIK_zKveJ95DWMyKYQI90urdJF1C9mCJtzMgNmkVmh1RSlgriO6qkYjAChRflJxMWIWP2yg5HwbKMKMBW40znyhWiZhGBxdjSpNzFrLEwfN1XXXYZrbz0JSCI436YN_xPQthxt0blEP_icE2jT8pTVbJmOOhvY5histOhpoIE5WRCT6sDQYHZA9A8Cxv5CseR765ztTYd1A8nd1OfkCtU.4QvWrV0.nnuYXdgv3ACGkz Received: from [213.122.31.143] by web86505.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:13 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:56:13 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <082E380968FA412F86094FF6EA988B27@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m280.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b8ad8b67d48 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Yes Laurence KL1X modified the circuit for use from 10kHz. I think it need= s some of the coupling caps increased in value. Alan G3NYK --- On Sun, 28/2/10, Ken wrote: > From: Ken > Subject: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, 28 February, 2010, 20:17 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi > All.=20 >=20 > Has anyone had any > experience using the PA0RDT Mini > Whip on 9kHz?=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0=20 >=20 > 73s=20 >=20 > Ken=20 >=20 > M0KHW >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE084-5ec14b6dc91d103; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:55:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 335CA38000068; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdqjB-000668-7d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdqjA-00065z-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:00 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndqj7-0006Vk-Un for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:00 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o16JrqSO014023 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:53:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:53:49 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ca4b6dc91c1a11 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, Yes, a metal mast will introduce unwanted reception of its own. I have seen a professional application where a common mode choke was used over the mast at the bottom to kill unwanted resonances of the mast, which could be easily coupled to the coax or antenna itself. Your idea of a optical link is interesting as it would decouple the whip completely. In the past I have carried out an experiment with a battery powered SPM-3 and a battery powered whip. When I raised the whole contraption, the signal level of a local NDB dropped! If this also will be the case with a battery powered whip, with the battery mounted close to the antenna to avoid a stray path to ground via the power feedline and an optical signal feedline, will to be seen. Depending on the size of the whip versus the size of the circuit ground it might still work, albeit in dipole mode. My standard mini-whip uses leaded parts and the capture area measures 30 x 40 mm. I have also made one with SMD parts, except a RFC and a 2N5109. This one delivers the same output, whilst the capture area is only 22 x 26 mm. The smaller SMD parts will introduce less stray capacitance and hence less signal loss due to a larger C-antenne to C-circuit ratio. So the capture area could be reduced. Output is ample and I have a passive four-port power devider in-line with still ample power at the receiver port. Regarding field strength, I found that at a field location the antenna delivered about 10 dB more signal at 400 kHz than received at my city location. However with the right measures the signal to noise ratio can be (almost) as good at home as it is in the field. We have bushes and large chestnut trees close by and it was necassary to raise the antenna up to 4 metre to get comparable results as in the field location. In the latter 2 metre was sufficient for a proper signal to noise ratio. The environment adds some screening, but as long as it does not degrade the signal to noise ratio, nothing is lost. My antenna is only 6 metre from the house mounted up the stem of a magnolia tree. To get rid of the local noise, traveling along the shield of the coax, grounding the shield at the bottom of the mast has been the most effective single measure. A second earth stake has been placed at the point where the cable enters the house. Feeding the antenna from a battery, mounted at the foot of the mast, will further reduce the local QRM level. However, it should be stressed that excellent results can be achieved using traditional feeding methods over a coaxial feedline. I won't boast, but using this set up, I have received many T/A stations on 137 kHz. So far 102 different non directional beacons from Canada have been logged as far as British Columbia. This shows that with a bit of sound engineering decent results can be obtained. DCF37 is here -57 dBm / S9 + 14 dB. I hope this helps. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.11]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME022-8ba54b88fe9c2b3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:14:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E8E2F38000091; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlKbN-0006zs-IT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlKbN-0006zj-6d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from n2b.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com ([124.108.96.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlKbK-0004DA-Aw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:12:53 +0000 Received: from [124.108.96.171] by n2.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from [124.108.96.187] by t2.bullet.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp102.mail.aue.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 700056.66308.bm@omp102.mail.aue.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 50295 invoked by uid 1000); 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from 124.108.96.74 by rel109.mail.aue.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:12:39 -0800 Received: (qmail 72540 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2010 11:12:39 -0000 Received: from 219-88-52-196.dialup.xtra.co.nz (bjhayes@219.88.52.196 with login) by smtp105.tnz.mail.aue.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 03:12:34 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: m6thF6mswBAnWxmjtcdhrNlLbX7_ea0yMMGOjaOYSQ-- X-YMail-OSG: 1k2Q9V0VM1ncQB1FB_yZuZGJTaZAbCcJGiLscfarrhWCIMwsWtR8ehMOCXDb.derjSK.LsZ9ln_ntJe1rIkwMSVr7hxe2uxd5M2pKo3Sqia9jgNM5m9Iws69dFzCdNBuq3j1pW0jm5mTEcgYA4B.fRNN3dDrnD3fay.VOSVKe2FvzkkKxMz6ErLh0yjPS_mNT9SjkUL_qiij7BE6.j.yKLHJtwGFWjCJuKSfjQfk9BcF3cHi0AOsonuNDUZKKBO06M9wkjbr317Ry7PD X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20100227235711.01ae4958@xtra.co.nz> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:11:45 +1300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Brenda Hayes Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: 600 m. access in ZL land Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400b4b88fe9a1a3e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello all, At long last we have a temporary 600.m slot, beginning on Monday 1st. March. No special permits or reporting of results. As there is only one licence class now, any ham can participate. I will attach the good news from the President of NZART. Kevin, ZL4MD NZ Amateurs Granted Access to 600 metre Band Following submissions from NZ Association of Radio Transmitters (NZART), the group that represents NZ amateur radio operators, the NZ Government has agreed to grant NZ Amateurs temporary access to a slice of the 600 metre spectrum. From 1 March 2010, NZ Amateurs will have access to some of the spectrum that was previously used for Morse code communications with ships. The new band, 505 to 515 kHz has been granted on a temporary basis pending an international allocation to radio amateurs and includes some restrictions: * These frequencies are, or may be, allocated for use by other services. Amateur operators must accept interference from, and must not cause interference to, such other services. * Radiated power must not exceed 25 watts e.i.r.p. * The bandwidth of emissions must not exceed 200 Hz On the international scene, work continues to gain a world-wide allocation in this area through the International Amateur Radio Union (IARU), the group that represents Radio Amateurs internationally. Once this is approved, it is likely that the New Zealand Amateurs will be granted a permanent allocation in the 600 metre area. The updated Amateur GURL which is effective from 1 March 2010, can be found at: http://www.rsm.govt.nz/cms/licensing/types-of-licence/general-user-licences/amateur-radio-operators/ ZL2KH 24-February-2010 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB074-a7a84b830f121d; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:11:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 212543800006E; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhPk-0006QJ-Rl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhPk-0006QA-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhPh-0006Ws-Ul for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:10:08 +0000 Received: (qmail 93723 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 23:10:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266880200; bh=/FUx/BXBHK3GWexrsFCGKyBAoBhCyY/Acjy2blKyPPA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UEu6V1oiVC04pPEY9abt1oMcDjdBKjEBkKNyAhb6wLaRMMqt46HSvCeR/mGnVEY8aHsT//AnUnm7sJxS2yd8Jj0x7sH0d8X29OiuhcPhi77Y+3PYghQLFNCANMmkYcdfeJw0D89sbSXdE3UerVZkJ52nUdfLcq3mKV2JY+I+W8o= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=341s8EsRki0cLUG8/mH5CedwH6Ktwr8+78lvY7dWQ+XGuHgxebNX0JlnkJHcJjMba0z3YiMSfO+/OKmvOfuq/4SFcVSH6orNDx+pn5COBlFmdMkNmS6ZkM0XGWBQugiyN6KlefXT7QEJbzZ7PBOoXEHyavBm3UShSWdiBPOR5jo=; Message-ID: <127197.92266.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: huzC_ZAVM1nPc7s5XKVke_HZiJS_UhX9iOWQSc0eXq4p2OCOxeqihCd.igITJYLn0Ub2MmEP3WwTeTUThGe7SL7LHTKIQkAiULC.4c2ka773yehVRtlPGTXGmjRXxz33ngjdfzFZ4PVqqmXGqsVEYSRGC1zGqaSGq0On2vPHpSRIliLbU6F7yp3ZBqhBXmIN6025s1tDZYR0mV5vIlJzF.riFC1YvbHE7o380FlAsnkbMSf8VRmKpe5_8EkJtJu3yHLNIW_LzkGbEfmXJ5oXeTjqVNPDsyWzilh7LoeQ.iNU_9V5TGR4GlRLdJ940HKj28u2 Received: from [213.122.36.154] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:09:59 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:09:59 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d267.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b830f10067f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Peter, Why load it and try to feed it as a current fed extremely short aer= ial. Would it be easier to calculate a parallel tuned circuit and feed it= off the top....voltage feed. You could then use a much smaller inductance= and a few farads and have a very narrow bandwidth. The efficiency would= still be minute but the firework display after dark would be a wonder to= behold! :-)) a later day Tesla..... Actually you would get a much "bigger" aerial by putting two stakes in the= ground. This gives a loop because the skin depth at these freqencies can= be 10s of metres probably more than the height of your inv "L". It is als= o easier to feed via a transformer like a loop. (from the book I reference= d) Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, M0FMT wrote: > From: M0FMT > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 22:43 >=20 > Yep Rik > =A0 > So how do=A0I load it? > =A0 > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in > the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while > the wire held out before melting.=20 > =A0 > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and > about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 > =A0 > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like > most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. > =A0 > I want to use an air core transformer if at all > possible....... there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on > this reflector=A0about this subject but=A0I am looking > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need > help, ideas-wise.=A0 >=20 > If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels > above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in > doing an RX test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly > G3xiz or M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.=20 > =A0 > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a > miniscule fraction of a wave length,=A0in the > conventional way is not the answer. > =A0 > So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... > anyone??=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pete, > =A0 > 2.5km Cu wire > of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the > coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > =A0 > 73, Rik=A0 > ON7YD - OR7T > =A0 >=20 >=20 > Van: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT > [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Group > =A0 > Using software to calculate what I would need to load > my inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm > O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air > cored former is 1400 turns,=20 > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being > driven by about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be > getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > =A0 > =A0 > =A0=A0 >=20 > 73 es GL petefmt >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn > wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 >=20 >=20 > All we need is a wire strung between > K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. >=20 > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on > 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > --=20 > 73 Warren K2ORS > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XGJ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WD2XSH/23 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XEB/2 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > WE2XGR/1 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. > You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the > regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the > answer as I remember > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by > International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no > we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency > things may be different > now > with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach > would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k > stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, > 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other > countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy > to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF > (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. > Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something > arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an > antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what > about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which > will be on a > >> > ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the > center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth > radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance > at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are > doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good > distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it > would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short > dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments > as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, > one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> =A0 At this frequency, widely > spaced,=A0grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There > are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers > from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of > the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. > >> > >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms > is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal > processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide > coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and > antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> =A0 73s > >> =A0 Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > >> > >> =A0 Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to > find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a > forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of > wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna > mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF > bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above > ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. > I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad > ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, > the ODX > >> > would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little > far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already > catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB > operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> =A0 =A0 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in > QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, > that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and > after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting > a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters > like > >> bandwith or > power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> > ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 > =A0ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> > www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI011-eab64b8667fc23e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE23038000067; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcU8-0003AY-FS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcU8-0003AP-59 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcU6-0004Al-5X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:28 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1PC6H4s025008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:36:17 -0330 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:36:17 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b8667f758bc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Many thanks for the captures Henny. There is much variability in the transatlantic path on 500 kHz. 73 Joe On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi All, > capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 24-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.209]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE073-5ebc4b6cd55629c; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:35:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 199903800019D; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:35:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdaUT-0001aR-10 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdaUS-0001aI-Lu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:44 +0000 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdaUQ-0008W3-Un for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:33:44 +0000 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o162XUGg003256 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:30 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c77.5dec74d3 (55720) for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.149]) by cia-md02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD023-5c664b6cd4e539f; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:33:27 -0500 Received: from magic-m01.mail.aol.com (magic-m01.mail.aol.com [172.21.172.72]) by smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB024-5c664b6cd4e539f; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:33:09 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:33:09 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d14b6cd5540d8d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. Welcome !!! F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Joe nice signal on 137777.
 
Welcome !!!
 
 
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
RX: PM-SDR
Ant:=20 Wellbrook LFL1010

http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/
--part1_1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b6e876a338; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:27:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 91F7538000197; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:27:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3P0-00011C-3i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3Oz-000113-LO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:01 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne3Ox-0007lN-Ip for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:26:01 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D3840163 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:53 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:25:52 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA7DF.ED0C1CA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 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mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F34B0380001CC; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:15:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeLwI-0007Sq-MS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeLwI-0007Sh-7V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from qmta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.59.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeLwF-0006jL-LL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:38 +0000 Received: from omta23.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.74]) by QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fH9g1d0041c6gX85BHDVLq; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:13:29 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta23.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fHEf1d0012DDHkk3jHEfwC; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:14:40 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:13:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: OE5ODL PA3CPM in CT Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA853.8951ECC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b6f9def31a1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01CAA853.8951ECC0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clean copy of Ossi's 5 5 5 tonight. CPM just short of a full ID. Good conditions on 518 Navtex as well with several new EU stations added to the reception list. 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from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 87DF1380000A5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:01:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWxP-0000jz-5X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWxO-0000jq-KQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000 Received: from thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com ([192.54.144.136]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjWxL-0000tg-TE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:10 +0000 Received: from thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (unknown [10.33.231.5]) by thsmsgxrt13p.thalesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39145361032 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales (10.33.231.33) by thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (8.5.103) id 4B0E9ABB00B2BEC2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 Received: from (unknown [10.33.231.1]) by thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales with smtp id 1d64_802f_ce10310a_1fa9_11df_a50f_0013725f4d82; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 Received: from NODALNET.clb.tcfr.thales (unknown [10.33.8.19]) by thsmsgirt11p.corp.thales (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1719059802F for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:01 +0100 (CET) Received: by nodalnet.clb.tcfr.thales with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:00:00 +0100 Message-ID: From: Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: RE: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b82720b29dd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Rik =20 In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the electro= nics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it wa= s possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some rods= in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return au= dio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow conv= ersations spying)=20 =20 Jean-Louis F6AGR _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hello Stefan, what about "going underground". I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas= in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put= up antennas within the sight of the enemy). If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used. Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch= .com/rogers/1rogers.htm = =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote: Hello Horst,=20 =20 That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in= the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. =20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that ra= nge and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. The= re, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You= do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire= and nobody will care about it. Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... =20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) =20 What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF= stations in that range? Are there some? =20 73, Stefan =20 PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) _____ =20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Hallo Stefan, there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9k= Hz is free. I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that. So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT Horst ___________________________________________________________ NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Rik
 
In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the electronics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it was possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some rods in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the return audio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow conversations spying) 
 
Jean-Louis F6AGR

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:21 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:
Hello Horst,
 
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
 
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
 
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
 
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
 
73, Stefan
 
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst Stöcker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL über 1000,- ¿ sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB3B6.8EEC21A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.96]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD084-8b934b68496aff; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:48:58 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E4CAA38000D48; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcKy9-0006Ak-So for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcKy9-0006Ab-Fi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcKy8-0000Cg-31 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:47:13 +0000 Received: from COL122-W29 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:47:04 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:47:04 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: ,<001301caa3ee$11f58f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 15:47:04.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7E0A7F0:01CAA41E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_" Subject: LF: G3KEV_500kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60604b6849540b5c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF! Yes, I was using SpecLab software for receiving your normal CW signal. I= often see your cw signal here, it is very strong usually. Sorry, I am not= able to listen it in earphone, becouse I am using my remote control recei= ver on portable QTH. I can see all signals only. But I am sure, that it wo= uld be audible perfectly.=20 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 +0000 Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz Tnx Lubnos That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode. 73 mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Lubos OK2BVG=20 =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 =20 Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:13=20 PM Subject: LF: 500kHz =20 Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technolog= i=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat =20 _________________________________________________________________ E-mail na cesty - z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969 --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF!
Yes, I was using SpecLab software for receiving your nor= mal CW signal. I often see your cw signal here, it is very strong usually.= Sorry, I am not able to listen it in earphone, becouse I am using my remo= te control receiver on portable QTH. I can see all signals only. But I am= sure, that it would be audible perfectly.

73!
Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS 

From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net<= br>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:57:02 +000= 0
Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz

Tnx Lubnos
That was normal CW from me. The other stn was in= Beacon=20 mode causing qrm to LA1TN in QSO mode.
73 mal/g3kev
 
----- Original= Message -----
From:=20 Lubos= OK2BVG=20
Sent: Mon= day, February 01, 2010 8:13=20 PM
Subject:= LF: 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technolog= i=ED Microsoft = Zaregistrovat

E-mail= na cesty - z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. Zaregistrovat --_b7f77d86-12fa-4748-b218-d39d913c3b4c_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b6fb1da176; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A94D538000117; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:40:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeNH4-0007jz-4W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeNH3-0007jq-JQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:09 +0000 Received: from mx01.infotech.at ([213.174.240.1]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeNH0-0007Lg-RZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:39:09 +0000 Received: from [213.174.255.71] (helo=[192.168.1.152]) by mx01.infotech.at with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeNGz-0006RE-FV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:39:05 +0100 Message-ID: <4B6FB204.8090500@inext.at> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:41:08 +0100 From: oberreiter oswald User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: <001f01caa87d$72b6ee50$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: OE5ODL PA3CPM in CT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b6fb1d83814 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Am 08.02.2010 06:13, schrieb jrusgrove@comcast.net: > Clean copy of Ossi's 5 5 5 tonight. CPM just short of a full ID. Good > conditions on 518 Navtex as well with several new EU stations added to > the reception list. > > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 Hallo Jay! manny thanks fer report es looking on the eu tx band ,running 250w out something is new on the antenna here, running good by this conds . tu 55dx 73 de ossi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6e8b1a3e1; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:42:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B404038000082; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3eB-00019E-6h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne3eA-000195-88 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:42 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl ([194.134.41.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne3e7-0007vc-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:41:42 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAB468036 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:41:33 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp03.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.8 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b6e8b183e1c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wantedHello Stefan, I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. The shed has ia 230V supply so it isn't isolated.When I increased the= hight both qrm decreased and signals increased,getting higher then 7m didn't improve much.Since I am not allowed to build higher then 5 m above the= roof I left it this way! (the pole and the coax have their own earthing in= the shed,their are also 2 common mode shokes in the coax to the house) For the lenght of the whip 60cm was ideal for this situation,I could= still hear the weakest beacons (var,fny) and their where no signs of im of= the local mw stations.DCF is 500uV (S9+20dB) at this moment,off course on= a calibrated meter. good luck with your experiments, 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Nam= ens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 23:51 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hi Victor,=20 Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design= or also with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps?= 28V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-) Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically")= apart from the house? "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decreased, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases an= d the influence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus= the input voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the= same. And if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visib= le signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noiselevel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be= a noise source in the near of the shed, isn't it? I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2= UKW variable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends= when it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful= but interesting ;-) You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse,= when you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that?= Or is the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that convers= ation and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the= best signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p= .=20 Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contac= t to VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the longest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal= :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@onli= ne.nl Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hello Stefan,Roelof, for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.Th= e antenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the hei= ght between 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm= and a low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm= and higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m= to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I re= placed the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same poten= tial as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre change= s things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws 120= mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]N= amens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast Hi Roelof, LF, Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Questi= on! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a si= gnal but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mas= t, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ver= y high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (g= ate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, sinc= e in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, when th= e case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal= C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to define= an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole?= And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly pla= ced on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium= foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm probl= em, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active ant= enna mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were= vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element= since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So le= ss and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going throug= h the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was= also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial,= even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happ= en if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a= /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pla= y with ;-) 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakk= er Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won'= t work well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of= a=20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted</TITLE= > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hello=20 Stefan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>I will=20 sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blackshee= p.It is a=20 design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>The=20 shed has ia 230V supply so it isn't isolated.When I increased the high= t both qrm=20 decreased and signals increased,getting higher then 7m didn't improve= much.Since=20 I am not allowed to build higher then 5 m above the roof I left it thi= s way!=20 (the pole and the coax have their own earthing in the shed,their are= also 2=20 common mode shokes in the coax to the house)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>For=20 the lenght of the whip 60cm was ideal for this situation,I could still= hear the=20 weakest beacons (var,fny) and  their where no signs of im of = ;the local=20 mw stations.DCF is 500uV (S9+20dB) at this moment,off course on a cali= brated=20 meter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>good=20 luck with your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D002182609-07022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face= =3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>= Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 23:51<BR><B>= Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> AW: RE: active ant= on=20 metallic mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText55831 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Victor= , </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where can i get the desig= n of your=20 preamp? Is it a broad band design or also with some band pass filter= s? Is it=20 with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28V? I assume +-14V, right? ;-)</FONT= ></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is in this shed a 230V su= pply or is it=20 completely ("electrically") apart from the house?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Less qrm and higher outp= ut", does this=20 mean the noise level itself decreased, so not compared to the wanted= signal?=20 If hight increases and the influence of surrounding lossy things dec= reases,=20 the E-Field and thus the input voltage increases, and thus the SNR,= if noise=20 level remains the same. And if you then decrease the AF of your RX= to get=20 again a proper visible signal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the= =20 background. But does the noiselevel itself decreases also significan= tly? If=20 so, there must be a noise source in the near of the shed, isn't=20 it?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think when i will do th= e test with the=20 active antenna with the 2 UKW variable antennas, i will mount it to= the kite=20 and look how it depends when it is 50m above ground, completely isol= ated.=20 Perhaps not very useful but interesting ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You decreased the lenght= from 1m to 60cm.=20 Have you also tried 30cm?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A hight of 7m gave the be= st results you=20 said. So things get worse, when you go to 10m hight?? If so, what do= you think=20 is the reason for that? Or is the shed under a 400kV power line?=20 ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Victor and Roelof, tnx fo= r your hints and=20 ideas. I like that conversation and i like to try mni unusual things= . A=20 receiving loop will give the best signal i assume, but it is not ver= y easy to=20 handle if one is always /p. </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Congrats to the= canadian stns to=20 be back on LF!!</STRONG> Hpe to get a contact to VO1NA next! But sin= ce 6 weeks=20 there is almost no wind at weekend, the longest break since 2 years&= nbsp;:-(=20 But i will be back with a big signal :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73, Stefan/DK7FC</FONT></= DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im=20 Auftrag von victor13@online.nl<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 20:46<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B>= LF: RE:=20 active ant on metallic mast<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Hello Stefan,Roelof,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>for=20 about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The an= tenna is=20 placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height betwe= en 2 m and=20 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low outpu= t,raising=20 it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and higher output,= to prevent=20 im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.At a height of= 7m this=20 gives the besr results.no detectable im from local mw stations and= a good S/N=20 ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I replaced the steel pole for= a=20 glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This could be espected= because of=20 the coax cable you are always at the same potential as with a steel= =20 pole.Ofcourse  using a battery and a glassfibre changes things= but for me=20 this is not very practical because my whip draws 120mA @=20 28V.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Hope=20 to hear more from your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00= 00ff size=3D2>PA3FNY</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT fac= e=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:<= /B> Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47<BR><= B>Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> LF: active ant= on metallic=20 mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText11395 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Roel= of,=20 LF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roelof, why do you thin= k that this is=20 the case? Interesting Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work pro= perly" it=20 assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not optimal. And= why could=20 this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that= is=20 mounted to a metallic mast, the capacity of the "ground electrode"= against=20 the environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i assu= me),=20 compared to the active element (gate of the FET). Perhaps there wi= ll also be=20 a better coupling to qrm sources? I also have to make some measure= ments. The=20 antennas we use are comparale i think. So we could share (all) sha= re our=20 experiences :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A special question come= s up when a=20 optic fiber cable is used, since in a coax application there remai= ns a high=20 C of the ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is= used=20 (since the active element has just a few pF to the far field). Tha= t special=20 question is: What will happen, when the case/ground electrode = ;becomes=20 small against the active element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small batte= ry=20 inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal C of the active el= ement to=20 the far field? I assume, then, one has to define an optimal C rati= o of both=20 electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole? And what about a sho= rt=20 vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly placed on the grou= nd with a=20 almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of= the=20 household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm problem, so= e.g. in=20 your garden, apart from the city)?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On my new qth i made fi= rst steps to=20 receive LF with the active antenna mounted just 2m above ground bu= t hung up=20 on a wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be be= tter when=20 increasing the active element since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7= ), but it=20 wasn't. The optimal length was still 30cm. That seems not only to= be=20 "sufficient" but rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffe= cted by=20 the hight above gnd?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think one has to imag= ine the E-Field=20 lines that are going through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems= just to=20 be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees= can be=20 found, the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight= above=20 ground seems to essencial, even without local qrm. Each decrease= of input=20 signal can be compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of=20 course.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What are your ideas to= these thoughts?=20 What do you think will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes sm= all=20 against the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C fo= r both?=20 Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short di= pole?=20 Questions over Questions ;-) </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recently i had the idea= to test that=20 with a variable antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each el= ectrode.=20 That will be interesting to play with ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73!! Stefan/DK7FC</FONT= ></DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org im=20 Auftrag von Roelof Bakker<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 13:53<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B= > Re: LF:=20 AW: Re: test signal wanted<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Hello Stefan,<BR><BR>Probably a bit late, bit I= have been=20 told that an active whip won't work <BR>well on a metalic mas= t.<BR>I=20 never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of=20 a <BR>suitable mast.<BR><BR>73,<BR>Roelof,=20 pa0rdt<BR><BR></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></B= ODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IiEJAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANoHAgAHAAoAKQAA AAAAHQEBA5AGAAAEAAAeAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4A AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AAIB cQABAAAAKgAAAAHKpywc8q0oQVufKUO+mD2/SWyux34ABsKKAQAG9ncgAAUwDngAF/Y/IAAA AgEdDAEAAAAYAAAAU01UUDpWSUNUT1IxM0BPTkxJTkUuTkwACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAJ7kp9mn ygECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYMKAAAAeAEIQAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhB NTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRUVARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhz dC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAACwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA A4UAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAB9bgEAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAA OS4wAAsADYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAAHgAOgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAg4UAAAEAAAATAAAAMDAyMTgyNjA5LTA3MDIyMDEwAAALADqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwA9gAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAG+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAA AAAAAAMAcIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAg8kEfu+9 E0ylLT9BsvsxYAIB+g8BAAAAEAAAAIPJBH7vvRNMpS0/QbL7MWACAfsPAQAAAJgAAAAAAAAA OKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABE OlxEb2N1bWVudHMgYW5kIFNldHRpbmdzXFZpY3RvclxMb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5nc1xBcHBsaWNh dGlvbiBEYXRhXE1pY3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03 AAACAX8AAQAAADIAAAA8QkRFTUtGQ05MTUlJTEdJRk5PTk5DRUlHREhBQS52aWN0b3IxM0Bv bmxpbmUubmw+AAAArMQ= ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA7E2.1DB180A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF013-8bcb4b8303731f3; 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Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:39 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:38 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:20:38 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B07@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5kOPJfwyNXJzQ56vS7rOj26Y0wAJjtCO References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com><9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.220337 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b8303713d36 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting: 3MW TX power give 8W ERP, so 0,0003% efficiency at a commerci= al station on 76 Hz.=20 =20 But with that 8W ERP the whole world was covered. And we talk about 120*= the frequency and for us, 300km would be enough to motivate each other to= start some experiments there ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Warren Ziegler Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 18:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Roger, I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites into the water. The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 watts! Interesting write up on the web: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote: > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with anot= her > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one= - > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they= must > all be paranoid. > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scr= ap > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renew= able > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'= m > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remem= ber >> was:- >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be >> issuing any licences for that region. >> >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differe= nt >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >> >> Alan G3NYK >> > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk <http://www.g3xbm.co.uk/>=20 > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40D.431021E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IicWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwAUACYAAQBLAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcAFAAmAAEASwEB CYABACEAAABDMThGNjU3ODJBQjZGRDREODRBNTJDNDVCMUVCOTZBMgBVBwEDkAYACBkAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgIRBDDbTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjIwMzhaLTk2NgAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAAXdO55bPKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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(Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8Oj-0006DH-OI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd8Oj-0006D7-Cy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from mx71.mail.ru ([94.100.176.85]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rn3agc@mail.ru>) id 1Nd8Oh-0003zu-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:33:57 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=57479 helo=EFREMOV) by mx71.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nd8Oa-000OZI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:33:49 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <004201caa5d9$58186340$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" <rn3agc@mail.ru> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <E584D03083994FF6A031D94097F0DE28@ns94d01ae4d850> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:33:17 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41184b6b2f6f37d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks Henny! bad prop.. 73 Andrey > Hi,LF > Capture RN3AGC > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > RN3AGC 03-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde > bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden > afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF062-8bee4b7e092e3df; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8622F380000B7; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiJlC-0003wd-1w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiJlB-0003wU-IY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:33 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com>) id 1NiJl9-0004KT-LC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:42:33 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W2 ([65.55.116.8]) by blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: <BLU146-W2CDB731A2C3C29A700A5ECF460@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X <hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:42:24 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 03:42:24.0789 (UTC) FILETIME=[8CC8F450:01CAB115] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_" Subject: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b7e092c507b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran= on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did= their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100= khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen= from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and= phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very simil= ar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course= a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just du= e to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing= seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in= Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low power as Im playing with the matching - =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'>  <BR> Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Lo= ran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves= did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American= 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a li= sten from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop= and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very= similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of co= urse  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether= this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot= of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded= like from here in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase= noise towards the end...<BR>  <BR> Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee<BR> We2 XP Q<BR>  <BR> <A href=3D"http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav">http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wa= v</A><BR>  <BR> ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this eve= ning but low power as Im playing with the matching -<BR> = <br /><hr />Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail= Free. <a href=3D'http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/' target= =3D'_new'>Sign up now.</a></body> </html>=3D --_647abfa2-c71f-487c-a690-1f542146d363_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB023-a1914b82bad02d1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 529F738000081; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njbnl-0002hl-UE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njbnl-0002hc-Jl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [95.144.95.245] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Simon@junkshifta.co.uk>) id 1Njbnj-0003QI-6w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:33 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (Fused [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1MHAMMA004552 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:23 GMT Message-ID: <4B82BA7E.9000700@junkshifta.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:22 +0000 From: Simon Newhouse <Simon@junkshifta.co.uk> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081105) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> In-Reply-To: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b82bacf34c4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) James Cowburn wrote: > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? Ha Ha... epic. Stuff the huge antennas, what you need to do is get an old audio amp, load the output with a 8ohm 100watt resistor and stick a large inductor in series with the smoothing capacitor so it rejects the audio signals and there you have a PLT transmitter ! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.142]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC024-a8d64b71a571252; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:12:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 99B9F38000301; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:11:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeuXi-0004bS-LX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeuXi-0004bJ-Bp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jcraig@mun.ca>) id 1NeuXb-0003a8-4q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:10:34 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o19IA1ww031650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:40:01 -0330 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:40:01 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> In-Reply-To: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002091439340.24783@plato.ucs.mun.ca> References: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: 137 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408e4b71a56f21d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Victor, Thank-you for the capture. 73 Joe VO1NAx On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, victor13@online.nl wrote: > Hello all, > > received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr > transmissions (15% tx) > > 73 > > Victor > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB033-a21e4b6f115617b; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:15:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 50C93380000FC; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:15:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCaL-0003ND-3Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCaK-0003N4-OZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <bvgbob@hotmail.com>) id 1NeCaI-0002rl-Qx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:14:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W61 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s12.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:14:10 -0800 Message-ID: <COL122-W610C29E6620BF0F293ECD6D3520@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:14:10 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 19:14:10.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA2D31D0:01CAA829] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_" Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6f1155436b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_" --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! There are nice signals on 600m band. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'> Hello LF!<br>There are nice signals on 600m band.<br><br>Lubos, OK2BVG, JN= 88KS<br> <br /><hr />Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryho= dn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba <a href=3D'https://signup.live= .com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969' target=3D'_new'>Zaregistrovat</a></body> </html>=3D --_5318fe1d-1405-495d-a203-4c65a6c2ffac_-- --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; 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FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH//2Q== --_a1ae23c6-2c17-4cb5-a44e-d896d732eae2_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.210]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE034-5ead4b71c2c3257; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:17:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CED06380002D4; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NewUc-0004w2-Cm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NewUb-0004vt-Jw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:29 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <cpaul@gmx.net>) id 1NewUW-0004Id-WA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:15:29 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 09 Feb 2010 20:15:05 -0000 Received: from p5DD353DF.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.83.223] by mail.gmx.net (mp058) with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 21:15:05 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/FWoJhfCHF5julsdfSi/yUbUWDy2A7gRDNsoQwem 0WQ1xNUPrz3qR3 Message-ID: <008a01caa9c4$92d24b60$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Clemens" <cpaul@gmx.net> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002090910s5fc7d42aybfce15ed093b032a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:14:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.5,0.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d24b71c2c02400 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've no practical experience with Mosfet PAs. Nonetheless according to your diagram this is definitely a 1:3 transfo= rmer. Ther's no way how an autotransformer mode could come into play somehow= . >The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full= screened as they pass=20 >through the cores / >tubing, but each turn has the braid cut at the= hot end and *joined to the=20 >two ends of the secondary*, You mean...joined to the two ends of the *primary* ? It seems that those connections serve to increase the effective conduc= tor cross section of the primary to carry the heavy currents involved. The braids of the coax ar eused as parallel conductors of the brass tu= bing =3D primary winding.. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:10 PM Subject: LF: PA matching oddity Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching transform= ers used on MOSFET PAs -=20 I've got a confusing one here? I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at over 1kW= out, and made up from 8=20 MOSFETS, RFPP53 types, roughly equivalent to MRF140. It runs from wh= at is more than likely a=20 50V rail. The modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at= 13.56MHz, but the design=20 is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching transformers at inpu= t and output. Which is=20 where I may be missing something - they may not be quite so normal... The output transformer has a slightly different topology to designs= seen before - such as=20 those given in the Motorola handbook. The secondary winding is made= of insulated coax, two=20 turns are full screened as they pass through the cores / tubing, but= each turn has the braid cut=20 at the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with the= third turn consisting just=20 the inner conductor with no braid over it. All three turns (two of= coax plus the single core)=20 sit inside the usual single turn primary made up from brass tube, surr= ounded by a pair of=20 ferrite cores with a connection at the far end. A diagram can be se= en at=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif Now, the bit that doesn't seem right... the impedances don't work out properly... Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer will= present a load of 5.56=20 ohms to the push pull devices. From a 50V rail this should result= in a maximum power output=20 of 2*(50^2)/5.56 =3D 900 Watts. (Sanity check, a single ended desi= gn at half the Rload =3D=20 (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- normal push pull PA calculation).= Which is not 1kW and is=20 only an absolute theoretical maximum, anyway. BUT, if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload would be 3.125= ohms, Pout max would be=20 1600 watts which is exactly the sort of value I'd expect to see on a= real 1kW rated PA module. Has anyone met that winding configuration before? Is it really th= e 1:3 turns ratio it=20 intuitively looks like, or is there some way the windings could have= have become an=20 auto-transformer and be giving 1:4 turns ratio ? If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may be hi= gher. But for a 10 year=20 old design, sounds very unlikely. A few pictures of the O/P transformer: http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr= 1.jpg=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg On a quick test on the module today, running from a 10A supply, it= delivered nearly 150 Watts=20 with the PSU current limiting and dragging the supply volts down to 17= V. Now, plugging these=20 values into the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max= possible, - but I was=20 seeing more power. ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4 - BUT HOW= ? Andy www.g4jnt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 9/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3660" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've no practical experience with Mos= fet=20 PAs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nonetheless according to your diagram= this is=20 definitely a 1:3 transformer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ther's no way how an autotransformer= mode could=20 come into play somehow.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>>The secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns ar= e full=20 screened as they pass through the cores / >tubing, but each turn&nb= sp;has the=20 braid cut at the hot end and *joined to the two ends of the secondary*= ,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You mean...joined to the two ends of= the *primary*=20 ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems that those connections serve= to increase=20 the effective conductor cross section</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of the primary to carry the= heavy=20 currents involved.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The braids of the coax ar eused as pa= rallel=20 conductors of the brass tubing =3D primary winding..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73<BR>Clemens<BR>DL4RAJ</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-L= EFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:= black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dandy.g4jnt@googlemail.com href=3D"mailto:andy.g4jnt@g= ooglemail.com">Andy Talbot</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org</A> ;=20 <A title=3Dukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:ukmicrowa= ves@yahoogroups.com">ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 6:10=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: PA matching oddi= ty</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Has anyone got practical experience of the output matching tran= sformers=20 used on MOSFET PAs - I've got a confusing one here?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recently acquired some big HF PA modules, each rated at= over 1kW=20 out, and made up from 8 MOSFETS,  RFPP53 types, roughly equival= ent to=20 MRF140.  It runs from what is more than likely a 50V rail. = ; The=20 modules were part of an industrial RF heater running at 13.56MHz, bu= t the=20 design is wideband(ish) with the normal ferrite matching= =20 transformers at input and output.  Which is where I may be miss= ing=20 something - they may not be quite so normal...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The output transformer has a slightly different topology to des= igns seen=20 before - such as those given in the Motorola handbook.  Th= e=20 secondary winding is made of insulated coax, two turns are full scre= ened as=20 they pass through the cores / tubing, but each turn has the bra= id cut at=20 the hot end and joined to the two ends of the secondary, with= the third=20 turn consisting just the inner conductor with no braid over it.=  =20   All three turns (two of coax plus the single core) sit inside= the usual=20 single turn primary made up from brass tube, surrounded by a pair of= ferrite=20 cores with a connection at the far end.    A diagram= can be=20 seen at <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif">http://www.= g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif</A>  =20 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, the bit that doesn't seem right...</DIV> <DIV>the impedances don't work out properly...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assuming it is designed to run into 50 ohms, a 1:3 transformer= will=20 present a load of 5.56 ohms to the push pull devices.  &nb= sp; From a=20 50V rail this should result in a maximum power output of 2*(50^2)/5.= 56 =3D 900=20 Watts.    (Sanity check,  a single ended design= at half=20 the Rload =3D   (50^2)/ 2 / 2.78 =3D 450 Watts each- norma= l push pull PA=20 calculation).   Which is not 1kW and is only an absolute= theoretical=20 maximum, anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BUT,   if the transformer were 1:4 instead, , Rload= would be=20 3.125 ohms, Pout max would be 1600 watts which is exactly the sort= of value=20 I'd expect to see on a real 1kW rated PA module.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone met that winding configuration  before? &n= bsp; Is it=20 really the 1:3 turns ratio it intuitively looks like, or is there so= me way the=20 windings could have have become an auto-transformer and be givi= ng=20  1:4 turns ratio ?</DIV> <DIV>If it really is 1:3 will have to assume the voltage supply may= be=20 higher.  But for a 10 year old design, sounds very unlikely.&nb= sp;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A few pictures of the O/P transformer:   <A href= =3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr1.jpg= </A>   =20 <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr2.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.co= m/PAtfmr2.jpg</A>  =20 <A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/PAtfmr3.jpg">http://www.g4jnt.co= m/PAtfmr3.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a quick test on the module today, running from a = 10A=20 supply, it delivered nearly 150 Watts with the PSU current limiting= and=20 dragging the supply volts down to 17V.  Now, plugging these val= ues into=20 the matching equation 2 * (17^2) / 5.556 =3D 100 Watts max possible,=  -=20 but I was seeing more power.   </DIV> <DIV> ........ Extra support to the possibility of it being 1:4= - BUT HOW=20 ?</DIV> <DIV><BR clear=3Dall>Andy<BR><A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com">ww= w.g4jnt.com</A><BR></DIV> <P> <HR> <P></P><BR>Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.<BR>Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20 <BR>Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10=20 08:35:00 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01CAA9CC.E2D01270-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD101-86104b82bc912fc; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:19:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C8E56380000E1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:19:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbvF-0002mO-0K for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbvE-0002mF-HW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:16 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NjbvB-0003Uh-Rb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:16 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1878299bwz.4 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:18:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=u8pGymZr07+U6UoYIYesflSBT1e3ZnQIG0Dr1m3MM0g=; b=kZZY0RPXo2a5mpKrdbIr0K7OqvK1JvxhlORJ7OdxBSjRrJ3tdYnMPVKAUG4sGH4wkJ +73RydrS7JHIqUpAInD9zR6AI614fyiDnilpcYBk2Z4kblXnaQ9+mxBOx8t6IvcUZc9X iWuvUyRRykTEELSytlUNT/KB2T0o7mMKKLmYU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=cdJMTKEgI1BaxxSYvd0m5LF2GWwSA+D6/9S/HCgBC3TCVuJ4fFT6Yfnhjx0ijVy4y7 0oZtSoqBepOAKZDQGxkyXsRcwkHQM2zYCdcMQ626GPit6orlDWzbNq+19W+aE4NgYZl6 02/+RgkGVugZVraUMyOa58N/8QZ+DvsmBYuFY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.25.197 with SMTP id a5mr2152460bkc.70.1266859086843; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:18:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:18:06 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325556d1ada12620480339dbe X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d238.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b82bc8f0cb3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with another request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one - possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they must all be paranoid. On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scrap our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renewable energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'm happy to discuss this with others off-list. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember > was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div style=3D"text-align: left;">This is an interesting answer and today= OFCOM should be tested with another request. I will happily do it if no-o= ne else will. <br><br>With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction commu= nications, i.e. non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal rig= ht to allocate "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's= concern was a military one - possibly compromising transmissions to nucle= ar submarines in the low VLF region - and they were "instructed"= to give this response.=A0 If so they must all be paranoid.<br> <br>On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would= scrap our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into= renewable energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion= here. I'm happy to discuss this with others off-list.<br> <br>73s<br>Roger G3XBM<br><br></div><br><br><div style=3D"text-align: left= ;" class=3D"gmail_quote">On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <span dir= =3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:alan.melia@btinternet.com">alan.melia@btint= ernet.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi as far as th= e Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4J= NT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001= /2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:-<br> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region.<br> <br> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different= now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wor= thwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.<br> <br> Alan G3NYK<br><br></blockquote></div><div style=3D"text-align: left;"><br>= <a href=3D"http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= /a><br><a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a= href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3= XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> </div> --000325556d1ada12620480339dbe-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.16]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB064-a77f4b82a53d375; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:39:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E6955380000ED; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaMy-0001X6-Aa for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaMx-0001Wx-U1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:47 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>) id 1NjaMv-0002WF-QG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:38:47 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D1C51C0BB for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:26:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC0CF386B for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:26:58 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:27:13 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222152658.DFC0CF386B@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_22838249==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40104b82a53a369b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_22838249==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. >But that are dreams... > >Stefan/DK7FC Stefan, I you can manage to produce a significant ground wave signal the real advantage of 9kHz might be at distances beyond 1000km. I played a little with GRNDWAV3 (written by G4FGQ) and the difference between 9kHz and 137kHz seems minimal below 500km (< 6dB) while it will be much more difficult to generate any ERP at 9kHz. Just to give you an idea : Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km. But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km) 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --=====================_22838249==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <body> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But that are dreams...<br><br> Stefan/DK7FC</blockquote><br> Stefan,<br><br> I you can manage to produce a significant ground wave signal the real advantage of 9kHz might be at distances beyond 1000km.<br> I played a little with GRNDWAV3 (written by G4FGQ) and the difference between 9kHz and 137kHz seems minimal below 500km (< 6dB) while it will be much more difficult to generate any ERP at 9kHz.<br><br> Just to give you an idea : <br> Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km.<br> But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km)<br><br> 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T <br> </body> </html> --=====================_22838249==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC073-a97d4b82c415e1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:51:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2CDE538000043; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:51:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcQB-0003Ny-HX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcQB-0003Np-6J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <fitec@omskcity.com>) id 1NjcQ9-0003qk-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:50:15 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1MHo7UM009642 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:50:08 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00423 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:55:02 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:55:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" <fitec@omskcity.com> cc: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> In-Reply-To: <XFMail.100223002036.root@noname.nodomain.nowhere> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.1100223002701.421A-100000@noname.nodomain.nowhere> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:50:10 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498,MISSING_HEADERS=0.189 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b82c413000d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > Assuming -60dB antenna efficiency (0.00001%, that is the lowest value > accepted) at both TX and RX side, average terrain and 1kW TX power > the RX voltage according to GRNDWAV3 is 50uV at 33km (1 wavelength), > 18uV at 100km, and 1.4uV at 1000km. > But I am afraid that -60dB it quite optimistic and that -80dB would > be a more acceptable value, what would reduce the RX voltages to > resp. 0.5uV (33km), 0.18uV (100km) and 0.014uV (1000km) This calculations is for far field. But in this case near field is more significal if distance << lambda. For near field one can derive simple formula (extremally approximative!) U_{RX}=U_{TX}(h/D)^3 where D -- distance, h - antenna heigh. Similar RX and TX antennas assumed and very high RX input impedance assumed also. So if voltage on TX ant is, say, 1 kV and RX can recive 1 uV and h=10m then maximal distance is of order 10 km. It isn't very difficult to derive more acurate formula. But details of antenna design is needed for this. I did some experiments with such frequency many years ago. I was supprised then woods, walls e.t.c. near antenna yelds very strong signal attenuations (much more then for 136 kc, many of tens of dB). If one think a litle then it is not very strange. Inducted charges in, say, trees yelds field of opposite sign then antenna field. Trees are good coductor on such low freq an they 'short' a field. Keep it in your mind! Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD034-86ab4b744526278; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:57:58 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B698A3800069D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdHM-0000nP-EC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdHM-0000nG-13 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:40 +0000 Received: from mail-yw0-f176.google.com ([209.85.211.176]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <dominic.baines@gmail.com>) id 1NfdHJ-0003y1-9e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:39 +0000 Received: by ywh6 with SMTP id 6so1321575ywh.4 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:56:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ujr475aDga+2J9fj9dG3tcupRTDIRW/ni8i0IAeWVlQ=; b=oZUobN7yjOyTggwiQnyzNnAbl1vW03deQnLRkiFdDCMknILdYwoSj1nCqUZtsPFm45 j84UHnY0x6rHXKN/DCBdhazXYSILvU/e4LxETyrmdK4UAyJGwlyRPqxv0BUEWMSrNHRz 8+MkN5/oXC6dSFyNQ4SxilygyjtQfElL0bLLg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XsewuPA5kjYk5uunwTnK6bXEOOXvl6PEZd3NN28jLaJ/T7yFIBx4k0icwPYoD+70CO VOB5k5HbQCwIro04ukuyl3nCHRdKCN5aVaUvi3kXZKCW/7+NUsM1IKrIkKt7rlGbWKU7 qy4WuBcHVavQYhiAW3ouUXGqxhZrdnjjRG+jQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.162.34 with SMTP id p34mr435144ago.67.1265910973974; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:56:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <6B6649F747C5408AB22EACCD04016FA1@AGB> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:56:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002110956h3861cb65h51e4f2d9ef4e89dc@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m239.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b7445240e9f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Two RX options. FT817 and a 500KHz SDR RX (modified Softrock Lite V6.2 for 160m) TX options. Had built a M0BMU TX PA unit long time ago (but never added PA MOSFET's) as no NoV at the time. I have both ceramic osc (either 4/8MHz), a FCC1/FCC2 AD DDS, K5BCQ Si570 DDS or AMQRP DDS-60 all that can be fed into a 4020 or 4060 divider to obtain 501-504KHz signal. Then into 4427 and M0BMU TX or a two stage 2N3904 buffer and then PA. I have an 11W (at 160m) bipolar transformer PA that could be used as well as a couple IRF50 options. Been sent a copy of the GW3UEP schematic which is another 4/8MHz oscillator and divider/pa stage. I might, If you know the ECL82 glowbug circuit I was going to try and recreate using an ECL84 (triode/pentode) and grind a 500KHz crystal. Expect will be keying things manually initially, QRS, as per xband 80m/500KHz qso from 2008, so sql cards hopefully. Ant will be inverted L with 10m vertical section and c40m horizontal. VSWR meter almost complete as located some 3C85 toroids and some 2SC2166 for the PA so maybe a Marathon??? 7 pole LPF ready. 72 Dom M1KTA On 11 February 2010 17:04, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: > Congrats , Dom > Bands =A0a =A0bit =A0full these =A0days , but always =A0room for =A0one= more ..hi > What tx system are =A0you using ? > 73 , Graham , > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dominic Baines" <dominic.baines@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM > To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> > Subject: LF: New NoV > >> >> Hi all, >> >> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. >> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. >> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso >> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. >> Will focus on CW initially. >> >> 72 >> >> Dom >> M1KTA >> >> > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE041-5eae4b748bea6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B558380001C8; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhzY-0002h3-6H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhzX-0002gu-O2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:35 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NfhzT-0005y9-OO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:35 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so289326bwz.29 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:58:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0WGA9r/etrFEha113GRmi/85lCK8BzHqpcYB1MT+W9A=; b=tp7LTiiromtI0lB7oNKZf/UJerI38ith7A+Qh6kwypvMcKjmbIZcMQy0IlibTI9UHw a+eoFVsSDyLAMW6GtYiugUOcae1ySyuQh6pYjBySMwwondxE7wnWioin7mEuWonouUIg KN75OcNAVW0LFxpnrOCoifs739WF0s5L+zDNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=uLE/Yncg3AGeFN+dqRIdKcukyxC0WqimrViHoU0vCVw8Sh1kTTbo+USsPmPJtllPdA f8seGua3HbxOHoniYQtXJaSLt7dfFsClVBhEen7bs8wT2k1iatIi/MdgA6F0aiqWYNaU wGfcwI/vTpMjsQPgvRHI9e2oi/okHSX9etp6c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr317842bkk.206.1265929105526; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:58:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:58:25 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d295.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b748be857cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>wrote: > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU <G7NKS> S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 <M0BMU> G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk> > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > Hi, >> >> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight >> on >> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. >> >> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be >> welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> >> > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary/Jim/Jim,<br><br>Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify th= e method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too.<br><br>73s<br>R= oger G3XBM<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 February 2010 22:37= , James Moritz <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:james.moritz@btopen= world.com">james.moritz@btopenworld.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,= 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,<br> <br> Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:<br> <br> 213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83<br> 213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1<br> 213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20<br> 214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1<br> 214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6<br> 214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20<br> 214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83<br> <br> And Jim:<br> <br> 221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2<br> 221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR<br> 221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92<br> <br> Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!<br> <br> Cheers, Jim Moritz<br> 73 de M0BMU<br> <br> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <<a href=3D= "mailto:g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk</a>>= <br> To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <<a href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org" target=3D"_blank">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>><br> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM<br> Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR<br> <br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,= 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi,<br> <br> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on<br> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.<br> <br> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be<b= r> welcome.<br> <br> 73, Gary - G4WGT.<br> <br> </blockquote> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br><a href=3D"http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br><a href=3D"= http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a href=3D"http://ww= w.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> --0015174a0e02a5508f047f5b1672-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.140]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF071-5efa4b82c9e3174; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:16:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14A2038000138; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcoA-0003cr-Fd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcoA-0003ci-1H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <john.rabson@numeo.fr>) id 1Njco7-00042s-61 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (qmail 30576 invoked by uid 507); 22 Feb 2010 18:51:34 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 18:51:34 +0100 Message-ID: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:51:39 +0100 From: "John RABSON" <john.rabson@numeo.fr> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d084b82c9e0178e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as= 73 and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information= . An article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue= of the AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching onli= ne for G0AKN. =20 Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved wit= h a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. 73 John Rabson=20 F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b6d1e041a5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:45:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2150A38000137; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdfKY-0003CX-RB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdfKY-0003CO-DX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from outbound03.telus.net ([199.185.220.222]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <sthed475@telus.net>) id 1NdfKV-0001lY-4T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:50 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100206074343.YCQU18427.priv-edtnes29.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:43:43 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 00ABA1F063D32C3A for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:43:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:43:42 +0000 From: Scott Tilley <sthed475@telus.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> In-Reply-To: <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b6d1e0320cf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Joe, What are you up to now? Please fill us in. 73 Scott VE7TIL VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: > Has VE finally been given 2200m then? > > Steve / VE7SL > > > > >> Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. >> >> Welcome !!! >> >> >> >> F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP >> >> RX: PM-SDR >> Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 >> >> _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) > > > WEB - "The VE7SL Radio Notebook": http://members.shaw.ca/ve7sl > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.147]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB102-86244b8a37c734f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:30:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7A6F7380000A6; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 04:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlfSj-0002TE-2s for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlfSi-0002T5-99 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:20 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <bvgbob@hotmail.com>) id 1NlfSg-0006lE-4K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:29:20 +0000 Received: from COL122-W56 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s5.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:29:10 -0800 Message-ID: <COL122-W56AFAD687AC3EC3E565BD2D33D0@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com> To: _RSGB_LF <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:29:10 +0100 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <AE40935B3EC94D40AFFC78CFC5FD3733@Black> References: <COL122-W35AD812FF26EE87C1DC075D33D0@phx.gbl>,<AE40935B3EC94D40AFFC78CFC5FD3733@Black> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 09:29:10.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BB717B0:01CAB858] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_" Subject: LF: WPF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40934b8a37c50267 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Marcus, Victor and LF! I guessed that it might be Oswald=B4s signal, when I had seen the huge lin= e on my monitor. Thanks for your comments, it is clear now. Have a nice rest of the weekend! =20 Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25 +0100 Subject: LF: Re: WPF Good morning Lubos, LF, =20 the interfering signal was also quite strong=20 here: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using a slightly=20 drifting transmitter. =20 I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be= =20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were more active=20 grabbers, also from the American side. =20 Have a nice sunday, Markus =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 Lubos OK2BVG=20 =20 To: _RSGB_LF=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:47=20 AM Subject: LF: WPF =20 Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual.=20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure.= Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver= outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos,=20 OK2BVG =20 Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamov= ou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <style><!-- .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { font-size: 10pt; font-family:Verdana } --></style> </head> <body class=3D'hmmessage'> Hello Marcus, Victor and LF!<br>I guessed that it might be Oswald=B4s sign= al, when I had seen the huge line on my monitor. Thanks for your comments,= it is clear now.<br><br>Have a nice rest of the weekend!<br> <br>Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS<br><br><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">From: markusvester@aol.c= om<br>To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<br>Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25= +0100<br>Subject: LF: Re: WPF<br><br> <style> .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} </style> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Good morning Lubos, LF,</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">the interfering signal was also quite= strong=20 here: <a href=3D"http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg">h= ttp://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg</a>.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using a sl= ightly=20 drifting transmitter.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He would= be=20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were more= active=20 grabbers, also from the American side.</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Have a nice sunday,</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial">Markus</font></div> <div><font face=3D"Arial"></font> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right:= 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original= Message ----- </div> <div style=3D"background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;= -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;= -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-sty= le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; li= ne-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system= -font: none;"><b>From:</b>=20 <a title=3D"bvgbob@hotmail.com" href=3D"mailto:bvgbob@hotmail.com">Lubos= OK2BVG</a>=20 </div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a ti= tle=3D"rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org">_RSGB_LF</a> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Sun= day, February 28, 2010 5:47=20 AM</div> <div style=3D"font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm= al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-a= djust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b>= LF: WPF</div> <div><br></div>Hello LF!<br>I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual.= =20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclosure.= Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver= outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise.<br><br>73!<br><br>Lubos,=20 OK2BVG<br><br> <hr> Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamov= ou ochranou <a href=3D"https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969">Zar= egistrovat</a> =3D </blockquote> <br /><hr />Hotmail:= D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi=ED Micro= soft <a href=3D'https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969' target=3D'= _new'>Zaregistrovat</a></body> </html>=3D --_3211df82-6820-49eb-a9eb-96d67fd77f29_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC031-a8db4b881f6457; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:22:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C1DCE380000C0; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:22:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5kP-00005d-B8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5kO-00005U-Pe for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1Nl5kM-0008Gz-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:21:12 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 427E27000082 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 346F37000086 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id C5AFF7000082 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:21:04 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226192104809.C5AFF7000082@mwinf3629.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <C062863D251C4C0B9696FB71018B7521@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <EB1A0AA487BD1947AD61D2A37F82F5B60ECD0E2CF5@OFCOMMAIL-02.intra.ofcom.local> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <EB1A0AA487BD1947AD61D2A37F82F5B60ECD1971DF@OFCOMMAIL-02.intra.ofcom.local> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002252108140.13549@paranoid.lipkowski.org> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> <fc7eccec1002260659m451c6513h1cf47ccfbc7236a8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002260659m451c6513h1cf47ccfbc7236a8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:20:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b881f5f516e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New level tonight ... translations , fair point on the beacon's , bla= nket stamen's from regional people , thank god for ofcom , if anyone= took any official notice of what go's over this packet network 'we'= would all be using bean cans with string attached .. and then on= ly inside our houses ..I'm just waiting for Jose to add the sou= ndcard select module ..=20 I assume interference is not the same as co-occupancy ? G .. =20 From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 2:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation belo= w 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' di= scussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has take= n hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will= not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski= .org> wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OF= COM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no alloc= ation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be= required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy unde= r the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf= spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from= one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license fr= om the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field= strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, bu= t is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is= not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "bu= t you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate pot= ential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on= 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regula= ted). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3DContent-Ty= pe> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP:= 15px" id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 CanvasTab= Stop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area"> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>New level tonight ... translations ,= fair point on=20 the  beacon's , blanket stamen's from regional people , thank god=   for=20 ofcom , if anyone took any official notice of what go's over this pack= et network=20 'we' would all  be using  bean cans with  string  = attached=20 .. and then  only inside our  houses  ..I'm just waitin= g =20 for  Jose to  add  the  soundcard select module ..= =20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>I assume  interference is not th= e  same=20 as co-occupancy ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>G .. </FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma"> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3D"mailto:and= y.g4jnt@googlemail.com CTRL + Click to follow link" href=3D"mail= to:andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com">Andy Talbot</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 26, 2010 2:59 PM</DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = CTRL + Click to follow link" href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Op= eration=20 below 9kHz?</DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Yes, unbelievable isn't it!</DIV> <DIV>Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.</DIV> <DIV><BR clear=3Dall>Andy<BR><A href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com">www.g4= jnt.com</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <SPAN dir= =3Dltr><<A href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">g8fzk@g8fzk.fs= net.co.uk</A>></SPAN>=20 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0p= x 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>Warren ,<BR><BR>If= you  think this is bad, you=20  should take a  look at the  'ROS' discussion's in th= e yahoo=20   digital data group ..  SS  paranoia has taken hold= !<BR><BR>G=20 ..<BR><BR>--------------------------------------------------<BR>From= : "Warren=20 Ziegler" <<A title=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com CTRL + Clic= k to follow link" href=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com" target=3D_blank= >wd2xgj@gmail.com</A>><BR>Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM<BR>To: <<A href=3D"mailto= :rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" target=3D_blank>rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org</A>><BR>Subject: Re: LF: Fwd:=20 Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0p= x 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote><BR>Asking Ofc= om for a license or Nov to generate a signal=20 that will not<BR>extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for<BR>nothing....<BR><BR>-- <BR>73 Warren K2ORS<BR>   =  =20         WD2XGJ<BR>       =  =20     WD2XSH/23<BR>          &nbs= p;  =20 WE2XEB/2<BR>             =20 WE2XGR/1<BR><BR><BR>On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkows= ki <<A href=3D"mailto:sq5bpf@lipkowski.org" target=3D_b= lank>sq5bpf@lipkowski.org</A>> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0p= x 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu,= 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN= : 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>Pe= ople may be interested in the reply from Rod=20 Wilkinson at OFCOM received<BR>today. I asked him what OFCOM's= view=20 would be.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[...]<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN= : 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote><B= R>They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there=20 is no allocation for<BR>frequencies below 9 kHz. However in th= e UK, a=20 licence would be required as<BR>there is no lower frequency li= mit for=20 wireless telegraphy under the WT Act<BR>2006.=20 [...]<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>there is already a very big commercial= user of=20 the elf and vlf spectrum,<BR>they inject very big power into gro= und=20 dipoles. emissions from one continent<BR>can be heard on another= . and they=20 do this without any license from the radio<BR>authorities. the= only=20 regulation they need regards maximum field strengths<BR>(and thi= s is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<BR>= and not=20 the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is=20 usually<BR>50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)<BR><BR>sometimes when deali= ng with=20 the goverment, the best practice is not to ask<BR>at all :) even= if they=20 agree with you there will always be a "but you will<BR>need a li= cense for=20 that" clause.<BR><BR>if you have to ask, ask them if it is their= duty to=20 regulate potential<BR>electromagnetic wave transmission from ins= talations=20 operating on 50Hz (or<BR>any other frequency in the 0-9kHz regio= n, that is=20 not ITU regulated). you<BR>would probably get an entirely differ= ent answer=20 :)<BR><BR>VY 73<BR><BR>Jacek / SQ5BPF<BR><BR>ps. the answer that= you got=20 from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><= /DIV><BR> <br><br></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CAB718.D0C37910-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.7]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b80f027362; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:34:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C10BE380000A5; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:34:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj7FY-0005hw-QW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj7FY-0005hn-9f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <jpm.f1afj@online.fr>) id 1Nj7FV-0001Nq-NP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:33:12 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEEA94C808C for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059604C804F for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:33:04 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= <jpm.f1afj@online.fr> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40074b80f02505f8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Scott , Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm It is my grabber on 2200m ! 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj Scott Tilley a =E9crit : > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well=20 > documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of=20 > effort would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-md10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD103-8b9a4b74378f2a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:00:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7C542380001EC; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:59:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcNg-0000Gw-Nb for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcNg-0000Gn-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1NfcNd-0003OR-Pp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:59:08 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BE380700008F for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B1D5D7000086 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 319727000090 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:58:55 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211165855203.319727000090@mwinf3603.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002090910s5fc7d42aybfce15ed093b032a@mail.gmail.com> <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B33E@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> <op.u7y043pdyzqh0k@pc1> In-Reply-To: <op.u7y043pdyzqh0k@pc1> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:58:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b74378c3624 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 This seller has them .. but =A321 each ? G .. http://www.littlediode.com/components/SFH750V_Opto.html? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Roelof Bakker" <roelof@ndb.demon.nl> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 4:23 PM To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Subject: LF: Fiber optic components > > Hello all, > > As a non business customer, I have great difficulties in sourcing sm= all=20 > quantities of the SFH750V and SFH350V or other members of the same= product=20 > family. Digi-key and Farnell don't carry them or require a 200 piece= s=20 > minimum order. > > Does anyone know of a suitable source? > > I need these for making an optical link for my mini-whip and some ot= her=20 > interesting tests. > > Thank you in advance, > Roelof bakker, pa0rdt > >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b6f2a9d247; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:03:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF3943800008A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEH9-0004hS-4w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEH8-0004hJ-NM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:38 +0000 Received: from smtp825.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.moritz@btopenworld.com>) id 1NeEH5-00041n-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 64256 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=jVH6nhLSzRoUbULoCfL8Q0KPZUotjlTqQjfOjFawMaYg8hOcTZlA29SzcXKzURHhsZNrAbQBTF0HBthkDwVqRVSh5GTohCDOr8VpfIc2ot+5Ry1b5m6FlHt5MF6Mkd59ERwe5tY9dDly44NBKQVHehfiCMfmIQBAiKLyuxm+t5U= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp825.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: I13daV8VM1l6qFUydc_kkQ80SKNCuyre0dmNLO0UsVT0wQ24_SUnPoX1heh8hBlih66MezHJa0C_5JwTw6EaYHGtTVk.k8yXQKcDEwgoJwJ6HcR88pxCq_agvZf10v6RUu_KR_6gQFzfZ6VhEq8tM1xCuP_8i4AQzoIRb1pl4VGziZLq6Pj0KD7rckDZP.eYrTNyW_5.OpEzzHUJeK6zfMpw0FhT_l9_7AureAp6qJV3RgVw.Nl.1fIeWq8gNL0ZC1beKDwNvbOZYbpTcRxFxvqv7njcxynn X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <fc7eccec1002071020g1f1fe66dq4bd363e8d4142c39@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002071020g1f1fe66dq4bd363e8d4142c39@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:02:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b6f2a9b3070 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Andy, LF Group, I have just tried a quick test here, which more or less confirms your findings. My approach was to receive off-air signals as normal with 300Hz BW, but to also run Spectrum Lab on the decoding PC, configured in " narrow CW filter" mode, with centre frequency set to 1475 Hz (the audio frequency G4JNT comes out on) with a BW of 50Hz. The resulting filtered audio was fed into a second PC running the WSPR decoder. This has the effect of increasing the reported SNR by about 6dB to 13dB when the filtered audio is decoded - however, this is smaller than the increase you saw. Doing this also produces a lot of false decodes - the spectrogram display in WSPR shows a couple of broad, bright, noise-like bands where the passband-stopband transitions of the audio filter occur, with assorted spectral lines that are probably low-level noise from one PC or another. I have often noticed the number of false decodes goes up when there are narrow-band spectral "features" present, rather than just uniform noise. It is curious why the WSPR spectrogram display shows fairly uniform noise baseline across the whole 200Hz, with brighter bands of noise where the filter attenuation is increasing, rather than a bright band of noise in the 50Hz passband and darker in the stopband. Increasing the RX bandwidth to 3kHz makes essentially no difference to the normal, un-filtered WSPR decoder over the 300Hz BW. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Cc: <jfell@tesco.net> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 6:20 PM Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests > To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported by > some > stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct > link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.89]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b7f210c11b; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:38:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE6EA38000041; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:38:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NicPu-0007bS-JR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NicPu-0007bJ-6u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <dl7et@gmx.de>) id 1NicPs-0003ht-DH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:50 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Feb 2010 23:37:42 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5e53f.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.229.63] by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2010 00:37:42 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+lDBgE3bulZOS3qKwdqOpPOzlL0Ts2dPmiW7EuPW +/lMKLAHFYujUD Message-ID: <005d01cab1bc$87bfc360$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" <dl7et@gmx.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:37:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100219-0, 19.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60594b7f210a2a3f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I Have your signal on screen with 'O' can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message ----- From: <bxi@go2.pl> To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve later and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-ma10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA104-b5474b6d5da72b5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:16:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 902123800010F; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjZZ-0003zT-Vd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdjZZ-0003zK-Id for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <F4DTL@aol.com>) id 1NdjZX-0003Ar-Pq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o16CFPB8012825 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:25 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cf5.6a8d9364 (34988) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.149]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB011-5c684b6d5d514f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:15:20 -0500 Received: from magic-d26.mail.aol.com (magic-d26.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.160]) by smtprly-mb02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMB026-5c684b6d5d514f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:15:13 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <20714.4cd687f9.389eb751@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:15:13 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6d5da57158 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanx Markus for this information. Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France. F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) In a message dated 06/02/2010 13:05:07 Paris, Madrid, markusvester@aol.com writes: Dear Nicolas, LF, the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last night (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message ----- From: _F4DTL@aol.com_ (mailto:F4DTL@aol.com) To: _rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org_ (mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:11 AM Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ _ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=3Dr= ole_body bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7><F= ONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Thanx Markus for this information.</DIV> <DIV>Congratulations to UA3PW, loud signal in France.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman" FAMI= LY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT><FONT lan= g=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE= =3D"12"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face= =3D"Times New Roman" FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"> <DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMIL= Y=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"></B></I><A title=3Dhttp://lfistes.erst.azer= ttyu.net/ href=3D"http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.= azerttyu.net/</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 06/02/2010 13:05:07 Paris, Madrid, markusvester@ao= l.com=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARG= IN-LEFT: 5px"><FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#00= 0000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Dear Nicolas, LF,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last= night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WPF,= and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best 73,</DIV> <DIV>Markus (DF6NM)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5p= x; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3Dltr> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:= black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmailto:F4DTL@aol.com href=3D"mailto:F4DTL@aol.com">F4DTL@ao= l.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmailto:rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"= >rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 06, 20= 10 2:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> LF: PW beacon ???</DIV= > <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's=20 grabber)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT>= <FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSE= RIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV> <DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New= Roman" FAMILY=3D"SERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 colo= r=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"12">= </B></I><A title=3Dhttp://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/ href=3D"htt= p://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/=20 <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></A></FONT></DIV></FONT></BL= OCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> --part1_20714.4cd687f9.389eb751_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC024-a8d64b71265813c; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:09:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7930138000172; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nem4x-0002yG-3v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nem4w-0002y7-Q6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:18 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>) id 1Nem4v-0007fa-8D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:08:18 +0000 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1998Gio008359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:08:16 +0100 Received: from [129.206.29.70] (pc70.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.70]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id o1998FEY017442 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:08:15 +0100 Message-ID: <4B7125F6.6090507@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:08:06 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan=5FSch=E4fer?= <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <PAEFLMFGBDKKCONLMLBICEBNDHAA.ganymede444@btopenworld.com> <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> In-Reply-To: <20100209080855.8CA28686BC@mail.ebirds.it> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: LF: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b7126573517 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME041-8bac4b7972ea3de; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:14:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 19BC8380002BF; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:14:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3ZE-0003Rc-Rx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3ZE-0003RT-H1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.150]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <wd2xgj@gmail.com>) id 1Nh3ZB-0002Z9-QI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:13:00 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so337478qwk.16 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:12:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=SYce6lEjOPROE89xUr0GWFcSNOFafS3RtKDNlCASSnc=; b=ZIXXBCuzPXOhAyeDkh7qU0vXHyxDE3uNf854HltgdGJ3QLOUAjb+SIUIylFQPLyCnH KT6XS5CUBThMZNZH+uh04Wx1NJNaUFgck95wAsFu5d1G9tacEoocoxygqKAAp/mDyGwK 0GXxVFyabWApQkff8dBmNLYIbF2l7nCF3Skhg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=TrmbgFOYSznIaQ6TFalGh4J8RYm85uqOz3ipIlYznq2946YkkUXQ3pPRxXgZxCO+q9 W7ziviJoKHAudkGGUcsffEk7Hg7JRcaFZleqpf3wIkK9jL2EwS3qAsgSc7vB4p/QILA+ ZnB0YjUh31QK2ZhNK6NcBbwldrYdDNitv8RRQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.107.84 with SMTP id a20mr2708005qap.356.1266250372535; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:12:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <COL122-W3DD2865C11F02F9D65BE6D34A0@phx.gbl> References: <COL122-W3DD2865C11F02F9D65BE6D34A0@phx.gbl> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002150812p28f7474dlcb4614d360d61bbe@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: XGJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m205.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b7972e82f3c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Lubos, Thank you for the capture! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2010/2/15 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com>: > Hello Warren, LF! > Your signal was very nice here last night. > > Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC063-a9754b7b1aba397; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 13BB038000281; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhVnE-0006OG-KH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhVnE-0006O7-4s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>) id 1NhVnB-0004SC-Er for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:20 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 908941C00089; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8266A1C00091; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.25.76]) by mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id DBEB51C00089; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:21:08 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100216222108900.DBEB51C00089@mwinf3424.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <2CB10050387E4FF795AD89F0B812F4E8@AGB> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Cc: "John Hudson" <jh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk> References: <ECDFEEF713E1424ABF1F572BD55E33B1@AGB> In-Reply-To: <ECDFEEF713E1424ABF1F572BD55E33B1@AGB> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100216-1, 16/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054b7b1ab87b22 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who called the station .. 500/500 qrt round 2200hrs=20 (No rx 3566 as intended . slight problem)=20 73 - G ..=20 From: Graham=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:00 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: John Hudson=20 Subject: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566=20 GB4FPR will be operating later on to day to this evening=20 502 tx xtal control=20 RX - 501>504 & 3566 +/- =20 Pls take look=20 Tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3DContent-Ty= pe> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-TOP:= 15px" id=3DMailContainerBody leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0 CanvasTab= Stop=3D"true" name=3D"Compose message area"> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Thanks to  all who called the&nb= sp; station=20 ..  500/500</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>qrt round  2200hrs </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>(No rx 3566 as intended . slight=  =20 problem) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>73 - G .. </FONT></DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Tahoma"> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5"> <DIV style=3D"font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dg8fzk@g8fzk.f= snet.co.uk href=3D"mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk">Graham</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:00 AM</DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Drsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org href=3D"mail= to:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Djh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk href=3D"mailt= o:jh001g4527@blueyonder.co.uk">John Hudson</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 </DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>GB4FPR will be operating later on to&= nbsp; day=20 to  this evening </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>502 tx xtal control </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>RX -  501>504   &am= p;  3566=20 +/-  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Pls take  look </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Tnx - G . </FONT></DIV><BR><BR> <br><br></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CAAF56.561E6040-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-ma05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA052-b5254b865f2a3c6; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B84F638000052; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbtl-0002KN-IY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbtl-0002KE-14 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:53 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>) id 1Nkbti-0003eQ-3t for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:28:52 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBSlsn005233 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:28:47 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:28:48 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:27:57 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: 9kHz Thread-Index: Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDD References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.112124 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA" Subject: LF: AW: 9kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55492 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b865f261afa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Rik. That's the problem. There will ever be very high voltages, even= with a 300m vertical. So, one can start the calculation by defining the= maximum allowed voltage at the antenna wire (to avoid PD). Then, with a= given C of the wire the maximum current is achieved. With the coil, that= is fixed in my case (disadvantage) but well dimensioned (high Q, advantag= e) i have to spend that parallel C that will increase the coil surrent und= thus the losses, and so on and on...=20 The alternative would be to wound a individual high L coil but this is mat= erial- and time intensive, maybe 1km of not to thin wire. If Q should be= high it may become a problem to put that coil into a car to bring it to= the field ;-) And the high voltage aspect makes it even more difficult.= So, it seems easier to me to take a smaller but available coil (85mH is= not too bad) and Cs and spend 7dB more TX power to generate the losses ;-= )=20 Yes, the small bandwith may cause additional problems. Perhaps it is an id= ea to inject the power by an inductive coupled primary coil, like in a tes= la transformer. Then one could resonate the system at the low voltage inpu= t...=20 Tomorrow i will get such a coil and will measure the impedance and Q @ 8,9= kHz. In a next step i will resonate it (at home, without an antenna) and= look which power is needed to achieve 20kV rms, and what will happen with= the Cs! Then i will built a class D PA for abt 100...300W at 12V (2x 2x= IRF1405 or so. FETs will be driven with my DDS-VFO and a suitable driver,= like ICL7667...). I will report here then...=20 What about your tests, Rik. Any improved arrangements? :-)=20 73, Stefan=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 10:48 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: 9kHz Stefan, did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may= indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in= the 50..100 Ohm range. Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would= increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just= performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additiona= l losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses= ). But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q =3D 250 for the= loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large pa= rallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher= losses. Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this. Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm) 1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q =3D 250 th= e coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result= in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA= trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W. 2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q =3D 25= 0 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would= result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loadi= ng coil would be 2.1A (=3D 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna curr= ent (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB. In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significant= ly, making it difficult to tune. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optim= istic way, just like children are dreamers! We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could= start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not don= e yet.=20 =20 On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO ov= er 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? =20 Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and= he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe= i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys= are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... =20 Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next lis= tening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this= would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: =20 The wire has abt 580pF I can get a air coil with L=3D85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance= abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (i= f it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. So, if f=3D8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some= 470pF/40kV Cs, no problem) The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, tha= t means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the= region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of= abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be= 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage= across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... =20 If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reac= hed with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be ex= pected on a sunday morning? :-) =20 73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB60D.B2E90BBA Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjELAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEACQAAAEFXOiA5a0h6AFgCAQWAAwAO AAAA2gcCABkADAAbADkABABgAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAwAHAAwAAQAWAEBCYABACEAAAA5OERC QjVGQjQ3RDhBRjQwOTJBMTVENDM3MjhBMjdGNgBMBwEDkAYAVBkAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQC3 CI+UDbbKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1G SUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNTExMjg0OFotMTEwNAAAAB4ASQABAAAACQAAAExGOiA5a0h6AAAA 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([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:39:00 +0000 From: Chris Trayner <C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk> To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:39:00 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz5ZUkK4lKg318RVyWaYiyELIIdAAAN3CQ Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220932m3b44a7d8tdbdcf6a1f80083ae@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514b82c16713e6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fier= ce in Cook Strait. :-) Well, then: you have automatically generated QRSSSS weather forecasts. 73, Chris G4OKW --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-mic= rosoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word= " xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"ht= tp://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii= "> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Calibri; =09panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{mso-style-priority:99; =09color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{mso-style-priority:99; =09color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; =09color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault =09{mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'color:#= 1F497D'>> </span>The feed wires would keep getting snapped as the winds can be a bit fierce in Cook Strait. :-) <br> <br> <span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Well, then: you have automatically generated= QRSSSS weather forecasts.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>73,<o:p></o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Chris G4OKW<o= :p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-si= ze:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </= o:p></span></p> </div> </body> </html> --_000_38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB5HERMES8dsleed_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE021-5ea64b7042c926b; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:58:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7142F380001DE; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:58:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeWvL-0000tE-KC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeWvL-0000t5-8u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from mizuho.unixgeeks.ca ([65.19.178.165] helo=li5-165.localdomain) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <seanc@unixgeeks.ca>) id 1NeWvI-0002np-Pw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:57:23 +0000 Received: from kana.usask.ca (kana.usask.ca [128.233.134.166]) by li5-165.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6266E37D62 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:57:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4B704265.7070904@unixgeeks.ca> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:57:09 -0600 From: Sean Cavanaugh <seanc@unixgeeks.ca> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100120 Fedora/3.0.1-1.fc11 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <81C069037A714C6EA62EB1C813D9D72E@MaynePC> <4B6D1DAE.1050809@telus.net> <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002061413210.28812@plato.ucs.mun.ca> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002061413210.28812@plato.ucs.mun.ca> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b7042c83c14 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On 02/06/2010 11:59 AM, jcraig@mun.ca wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, Scott Tilley wrote: > >> Joe, What are you up to now? > > Hi Scott, > > I'm hoping you can send me some of your art work for a VX9 QSL card... > you know --the one with the X as a cross-bones and the Newfoundland > Pirate motif! Saw a real cat-o-nine tails in the museum last week, > but nobody at Industry Canada seems to have a use for it yet :-) > >> VE7SL@shaw.ca wrote: >>> Has VE finally been given 2200m then? >>> > > Yes, Steve, at last! I was snooping around on the Indusstry Canada > trying to find our joint report on Canadian 2200m experiments we sent them > last summer and found instead a "Canadian Table of Frequency > Allocations 9 kHz to 275 GHz (2009 Edition)" > > http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/vwapj/cane2009edition-eng.pdf/$FILE/cane2009edition-eng.pdf > > > After a couple of inquiries, it does seem indeed as if Canadians are now > officially authorised to use 2200m. Horray! Excellent! I guess I better get off my backside and get my station together then! 73 Sean - VA5LF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.148]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF091-8bf94b8acfab156; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:18:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 92CAC380000B5; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:18:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlpZn-0000oW-Ta for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlpZn-0000oN-HX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: from smtp108.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.102.71]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>) id 1NlpZl-0001ZE-Fa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:19 +0000 Received: (qmail 23072 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2010 20:17:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:Thread-Index; b=1G/ttjEqqGpPbNrbkzls3Pskftc25tBt87aL1m1P+79AMMtrD2f1cElBHrvNVE+Qe7ZYUKClUctC/fq8r8qsA2rpJd50Dt1Z85ktmYRElnh+98lcTxXT8pLR4hjpLeMryA/E8Bhyw1GqaX+/jRH3JF5eLLavz80C4xBt19/TooU= ; Received: from host86-140-79-113.range86-140.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.140.79.113 with login) by smtp108.plus.mail.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 12:17:07 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: rD.xpUEVM1lZpYz4RfFXv.ZJpwVrtxpdwzNKh3bRl8ouoBiyibWwbQqBGY8VZ9U9p3RQ.xdNhlUbeeUOL78BBXQ2.lQTCxJUSfDnXVdKItgJ8vIoIf4WEhA9LkWe_fF3gKEiRed77XBLwk6EpQRtFZZyqRripvhTN.7AL_RlPndg1k9UCVoqhMwStAW3zSyxsbvkcs5WR9dOaEYw_OHCl8H__YFSoQXQOUqXtKfzVg5GKpe1V3JyicHwHfZ83Z.tgmQZV3ivQR8XDiAp67pTBOR8Nqf6q6XY8xUeyrBs2AbFwqZY14lwO1d_MtPxnoizGtr9eMfi6i8HRtoJVa_Shan1.3neoAICfYyJlthduUJNIGaVUGYuAPPATmR5gYf2aAEYGgp3mX_90SkF2r.SPdytdPEHyGrChAIRYCqxKvo8_fl85PmCPg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:17:03 -0000 Message-ID: <082E380968FA412F86094FF6EA988B27@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acq4sv1ZJAcORVKPQHqJLo/bzkeZpw== DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: 9kHz/Mini Whip Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60944b8acfa965a2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. Has anyone had any experience using the PA0RDT Mini Whip on 9kHz? 73s Ken M0KHW ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"u= rn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/RE= C-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-asc= ii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-compose; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:windowtext;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi All.<o:p></o:p></span><= /font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Has anyone had any experie= nce using the PA0RDT Mini Whip on 9kHz?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></= font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>73s<o:p></o:p></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ken<o:p></o:p></span></fon= t></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>M0KHW<o:p></o:p></span></f= ont></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CAB8B2.FE68F020-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.6]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC032-a8dc4b7436de38f; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:57:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B695B3800047F; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcK7-0000BQ-M8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfcK7-0000BG-9S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>) id 1NfcK4-0003LY-Rd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:27 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so52162bwz.29 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:55:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=pZcvS+SCsiCZ63MdT31rfOBrR2VRG8LZTGsyyLtp7Mk=; b=oCllbzzN81/nIMOOHXNUejiM1dnp4wrdWJcp3MPqh9XoMktN07j3oQ2yIfMO0IpbVA UkD4leVDaxB/yxRNEkDCPTbLccN3RI7s2rRj2mtKWq0XoFbQmMqUqZps+Bv+sSG7pd9g 5uvw6ODTwwE85G6S1eJg6l/nm4apcc9Bdy09c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=w3m8Ehpcn+v4Gvcca0+z2TVT6caqTYej1bMaRcHJegwJc6kg9zKHonr8FDhW04o2rV n9g760G/e6bqRlOc520JFKxGz5Idgcaf4wEhHcGVPc8j2vVxY9ptqa+UnUIaRfbrFyXZ BwkoLW3X0/bHnGSJaVXW8j5cAWJAMn3UpJMjU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.207 with SMTP id u15mr54570bkd.187.1265907317540; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:55:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:55:14 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002110855p2053bd32q96f3bb0b4aadb6fe@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d221.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40064b7436c00d8c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well done Dom. Looking forward to a (none too fast) CW QSO as soon as you are ready. Don't forget WSPR too - very useful for assessing the station's capability. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 15:02, Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. > Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. > Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso > perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. > Will focus on CW initially. > > 72 > > Dom > M1KTA > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Dom. Looking forward to a (none too fast) CW QSO as soon as you= are ready.<br><br>Don't forget WSPR too - very useful for assessing= the station's capability.<br><br>73s<br>Roger G3XBM<br><br><div class= =3D"gmail_quote"> On 11 February 2010 15:02, Dominic Baines <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D= "mailto:dominic.baines@gmail.com">dominic.baines@gmail.com</a>></span>= wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px sol= id rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hi all,<br> <br> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.<br> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible.<br> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso<br> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.<br> Will focus on CW initially.<br> <br> 72<br> <br> Dom<br> M1KTA<br> <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><br><a href=3D"http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br><a href=3D"= http://www.g3xbm.co.uk">http://www.g3xbm.co.uk</a><br><a href=3D"http://ww= w.youtube.com/user/G3XBM">http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM</a><br> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088<br> --00032555a906fb09b8047f560324-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.14]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB031-85ef4b83fe3ce8; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:11:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7BBBE380004C2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:08:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxI9-0001mT-6J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxI8-0001mK-PS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:20 +0000 Received: from mailout.toya.net.pl ([217.113.224.27] ident=postfix) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <sq7mpj@toya.net.pl>) id 1NjxI6-0004u1-Ak for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:07:20 +0000 Received: from mail.toya.net.pl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144ED20000599 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [10.3.148.9]) (Authenticated sender: unimlyn) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F354920000595 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B83FD34.3030402@toya.net.pl> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:07:16 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgTcWCeW5hcnNraQ==?= <sq7mpj@toya.net.pl> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000906000307090600030708" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b83fd8a00c7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------000906000307090600030708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mal hamilton wrote: > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the > novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are > still going strong. > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the > fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr > etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Mal, LF group, you did not mention PSK31 (why?) - this mode definitely gained permanent accepatance among radioamateur community as it can be easily seen observing the bands through the last decade. G3PLX, indeed, made a very good job! The varicode is based on a Morse alphabet idea , it does offer a 'live' qso , you do not have to be 'connected' ( arq, etc... ) with respect to its speed, self-synchronization it is really comparable to CW ( in some way , of course) and , again, you did not mention this mode - was it by chance or by design ? :) Oh, BTW .. speaking about the appliance operators - it looks like they got a new 'toy': http://www.southgatearc.org/news/february2010/ros.htm Piotr, sq7mpj qth: lodz /jo91rs/ --------------000906000307090600030708 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content=3D"text/html;charset=3DUTF-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type"> <title> mal hamilton wrote:
Observations indicate that data mod= e acty does not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty ar= e data but I am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes.

Mal, LF group,
you did not mention=C2=A0 PSK31=C2=A0 (why?) =C2=A0 - this mode=C2=A0 defi= nitely gained permanent accepatance among=C2=A0 radioamateur community
as it can be easily seen observing=C2=A0 the bands through the last decade= .=C2=A0 G3PLX, indeed, made a very good job!=C2=A0 The varicode is based on=C2=A0=
a Morse alphabet=C2=A0 idea , it does offer a 'live' qso , you do not have to be 'connected' ( arq, etc... )=C2=A0 with respect to its speed, self-synchronization
it is really comparable to CW ( in some way , of course)=C2=A0 and , again= , you did not mention=C2=A0 this mode - was it by chance or by design ?=C2= =A0 :)

Oh, BTW .. speaking about the appliance operators -=C2=A0 it looks like th= ey got a new 'toy':

http://www.southgatearc.org/news/february2010/ros.= htm

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Piotr,=C2=A0 sq7mpj
qth: lodz /jo91rs/

--------------000906000307090600030708-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b6f6bed3a7; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:42:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9B5DC380001D9; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIbo-0006ru-Hm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeIbo-0006rl-6v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeIbm-0005bF-45 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:40:16 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqoEALf6bktZ8ICx/2dsb2JhbACNDQPJP4RUBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,424,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="439038619" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([89.240.128.177]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 08 Feb 2010 01:39:39 +0000 Message-ID: <001201caa85f$9670ba10$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:39:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Yankee thunder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b6f6beb1012 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on 500. Where have they gone? mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No Yankee cw Thunder heard lately on= 500. Where=20 have they gone?
mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01CAA85F.963055B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.16]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA041-85e64b89da3a3b3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 158A238000085; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlZEW-0006HL-7U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlZEV-0006HC-Ks for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:15 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc4-s33.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.111.172]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlZET-00087z-MH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:50:15 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W14 ([65.55.111.135]) by blu0-omc4-s33.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:50:06 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: , , Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:50:06 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 02:50:06.0997 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC3BA450:01CAB820] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_" Subject: LF: XPQ qrt X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41104b89da380fa7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE2XPQ Wasilla Palmer Alaska is now off air on 600m until I return back to= Alaska later in the year - thanks for the reports -very promising. The sy= stem will remain on receive and under remote control from Oklahoma.=20 =20 Sweet FA Ive not heard FA NDB on 510kHz since Ive been back so not sure if it is QR= V - using the steerable array I dont even detect its carrier at the moment= . More RF building to do for more esoterical modes but we made good progre= ss especially given the wx. Ill be back to Part 15 activities in Bartlesvi= lle - =20 Cheers Laurence KL 1X BP51IP Enroute Okie.. =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE2XPQ Wasilla Palmer Alaska is now off air on 600m until I return back to= Alaska later in the year - thanks for the reports -very promising. The sy= stem will remain on receive and under remote control from Oklahoma.
 
Sweet FA
Ive not heard FA NDB on 510kHz since Ive been back so not sure if it= is QRV - using the steerable array I dont even detect its carrier at the= moment. More RF building to do for more esoterical modes but we made good= progress especially given the wx. Ill be back to Part 15 activities in Ba= rtlesville -
 
Cheers
Laurence KL 1X BP51IP Enroute Okie..
 
 

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich= email service. Get it now. =3D --_bb5f7c06-8c12-4ef1-b07b-0dddf51f2bf9_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b8131f92fb; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:15:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D9F838000045; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:15:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjBdX-0006XU-T4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjBdX-0006XL-BD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: from smtp829.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.189.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjBdV-0002c4-72 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 89059 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=BJWiSJuckwgl1FhS07v5YWsdzGApCUa1lyngnyP1e9/YIFYQ1hpk8tRKe4CBNW2P+qs4mfk4zNQo9VuqGaONgymc0U0m0/uzqQ7BV5azs8u5HsNVX6mBUPx1GN7f1dfc9L0w3QEifLZmoF5B0nlNOg7jVlsOqqZgKeQ1imEkGis= ; Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp829.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: Heytlx0VM1neFiuqGhoAhN6kmBt8ycJuTOYdYcMLp9jNfs.utK1zDQxn57Kz.TXpsy_3mdXd2iFUtj5urdpy.cntw_8JUmBZxw_Kr1Rr52bHSq9NVphYD1Nf1Z4Sb4ynRfpRvN5CerbUMvnHZKrqOchq.ueyeuFEiVe5bEBV6l7CnCAJ0SPFnKnrcqXcyJWSpdlVAPtLEQz1NyZdubDxC_QKi9UCMSccnPRUri3aodyMk7F1dUzHFUFIfFAbBeLL_16fBOXY4dkOdzouEbUqXwyOV479VsBXqe5YyOM13Q-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <34CF82CF74154AE681236612A1810382@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> In-Reply-To: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b8131f7797a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF Group, In case anyone else is interested, I put the mods I did some time ago to the original "Softrock Lite" kits for 136k and 500k on the UK500KHZ group "files" page at http://uk500khz.googlegroups.com/web/Softrock_136_500_v2.bmp. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Tilley" To: Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:36 AM Subject: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... > Hi All > > I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well > documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? > > Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of > effort would be greatly appreciated. > > Regards, > Scott > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b69dd0c2f7; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:31:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 397A038000225; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclrP-0006cX-2W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclrO-0006cO-Lr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:02 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NclrM-0002ne-P2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:02 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KTxAZ019898 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:30:00 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:29:59 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:28:53 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE1@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE1@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wABAMnPAAB2blw= References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.201221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b69dd0a007d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, pse do not stop, i try to increase the wire length... Just 20 min... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Stefan Sch=E4fer Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 21:15 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: AW: Re: test signal wanted Oh, it's Jim/M0BMU! Tnx Jim. But still difficult here. My Loop is still no= t here so i cannot compare it with the E-field ant... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von rn3agc Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 20:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is jus= t 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screens= hots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjwUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWdu YWwgd2FudGVkAAQJAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFQAcADUAAwBPAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABUAHQA7 AAMAVgEBCYABACEAAAA4MzE3MjU1OTgzOTYwNjQyODM1RERCREEzNTg5RUZGNQAcBwEDkAYAOBEA ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAPje2AD6XKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMyMDI5NTlaLTMzOAAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWduYWwgd2FudGVkAABAAE4A1fA1pw2lygEeAFoAAQAAACMA 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PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAA AwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJ AAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAAdAAAAc2NoYWVmZXJAaHN0LnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZQAAAAAeADhAAQAA AAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAA AwAGEO2JTVkDAAcQBwMAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABKSU0sUFNFRE9OT1RT VE9QLElUUllUT0lOQ1JFQVNFVEhFV0lSRUxFTkdUSEpVU1QyME1JTlZPTjpPV05FUi1SU0dCTEZH Uk9VUEBCTEFDS1NIRUVQT1JHSU1BVUZUUkFHVk9OAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4 ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUFFMUBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5p ay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AADGjg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50F.A7F34A1B-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.138]) by air-md06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD062-8b894b7709af226; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:21:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2E211380000B1; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:21:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgOSl-0006wX-S9 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgOSl-0006wO-DF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgOSj-0002bc-Fg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:35 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so2001342pzk.30 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=sHZ83w2GKxrFPg2rgYhWR+n+JM7Y72Z8RhdlWxlCMDM=; b=aEk+nBMEPKYHp/ttNDvs3TcI4d+Wx1HV/9YKp4kjRLLRt7BPGmbj5dqW64uyF8w6yE 2yo24H3rbppibsVp4ChwWm91F7e8eEb9FSy0WcjMMtE1kEO/UaskKmV0F3n+WgZ/7TND f3nr00GZxNN69Vwz1ZXOIn6FzmJdfOd02Didw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=fJ5fp0vrS0N6saEgn19rgJnxq07Lv4Mz6ABF2R1rxPGTxyH0Ek4VstXJ5hJqOPfqOh 1Icd1gZVYaouxLMW4y6QCrBwnBad5zsURsvZk6zy1ZIdRvLpahJbTocOfKbgHVhNtVui d7pQSERB7NWS2GGDPWA9/7/mAsevtdb46Kqts= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.187.7 with SMTP id o7mr2132321rvp.35.1266092365340; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:19:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:19:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b52abf4f8b02a959 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m254.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d064b7709ae5009 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF, Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency. Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.
--000e0cd1ad4ab06269047f811939-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.202]) by air-df07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF072-5efb4b80552bad; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:33:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 40371380000AB; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwvx-0003OC-4B for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwvw-0003O3-Oc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:16 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Niwvt-0001fT-GA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:32:16 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B2B30017 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from 58-178-124-188.rev.pro-internet.pl [188.124.178.58] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id bGWGKE; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:09 +0100 Message-ID: <010c01cab274$277749c0$3ab27cbc@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: Cc: , "Stephen Ayling" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 60 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Special Event Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ca4b80552a719f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stieve, Rudolf, Jacek, Marco, Veit,. LF Group! Many thanks for nice 7 QRSS/CW QSO on 137kHz band in last night: SO5AS, OK1DTN, SQ5BPF, DL7ET and DL7PC. Specjal evening SN0JH foto gallery in ammunition lab: http://www.sp2kds.pl/galeria-morfeo/view/49.html Link to Friday's LF activity: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=pl%7Cen&u=http://www.sp 2kds.pl/136khz/293-pitkowa-aktywno-sn0jh-na-136khz.html&twu=1&client=tmpg Vy 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-ma06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA061-b5284b8ab33a2de; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6E463380000BD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlngb-0007i9-0b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlnga-0007i0-Fc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:12 +0000 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlngY-0000te-BM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:16:12 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAHJBiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACNG4Idi2RzuEiEewQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="441204540" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:14:58 +0000 Message-ID: <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:14:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b8ab3385664 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Markus It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not= have a sense of Humour!! mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ---- From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:00 PM Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragem= ent. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am look= ing forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments lik= e this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the grea= ter amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind fo= r an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be= =20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Markus
It's not hard to wind these Dreamer= Boys up!!!!=20 They certainly do not have a sense of Humour!!
 
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:00=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX exper= iments this=20 sunday

Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his vie= ws, we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.<= /DIV>
 
And, best of all, it's fun.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday
=
Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like= this from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateu= r=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS fa= ce his=20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
>= Do not=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
> =
>=20 G3KEV
>  .....
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01CAB8A1.EE037590-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.75]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME024-8ba74b6f30613db; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:28:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 47597380000F4; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEew-0005S3-VV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEew-0005Rr-Ci for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeu-0004MB-UE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:14 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207212707.GXCT4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:07 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeo-0006BH-FU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:27:07 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:04 -0000 Message-ID: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOs+4pG5fLK1KQ/mK5bate1dURwAAV9HA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=muALTcs-kaip6iyYOqsA:9 a=tjLBK9E9j6IA8t3EFfwA:7 a=3J6FvnBtg6_3VTEEX1FElILxI6IA:4 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=Eth9jgxsVxnzP8A9:21 a=K7NE5lk6stKOdHLw:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=WaWwPF6wP_KOPVdIE4wA:9 a=F3DvgAR8nku3hkdhdEUA:7 a=MB1d7RG0ElaiZthRKtWe6iNkVGsA:4 a=7IHv232upLn_88w9:21 a=qgRuVFJqg_lSGvHU:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4b6f305f36ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 21:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great, have rep= lied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!)  

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

26 Birch Close<= o:p>

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds=

SG18 9NR

 

T +44= (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 

The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking= of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other= than the intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is no= t intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the= message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 21:15
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.

 

211100  4  -20  0.1   &nb= sp;2 32 *      G4WGT G7NKS IO92          1   0&nb= sp;

 

Gary.

On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Sorry I knocked= the VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rs= gb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0
202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *
202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0
202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0
202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


 

------=_NextPart_000_006F_01CAA83C.4B42BED0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b68ba6e31e; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:51:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A0F9138000090; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:51:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcSVR-0008KV-E7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcSVQ-0008KM-PT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:04 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcSVN-00031H-Qn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:50:04 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o12NnwB7006618 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:49:59 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:50:00 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:50:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Thread-Index: AcqjaNK1L2/hHZzzQ2STNL88qEl0ogA9pDMi References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.2.233324 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565" Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b68ba6c1cfa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Ken,=20 =20 Tnx for your statement. Well, i am not an expert in optic links and the pa= rts i choose are probably not the best, that are available for this applic= ation.=20 =20 Theese parts were available for me and they are suitable in principle, alt= hough the attenuation may be some dB less. Today i measured the gain of a= single BF862 in a preamp application for LF and i calculated a voltage ga= in of 26dB. Well, in that case it is not so important for me if the cable= has 3dB loss or 0,03dB loss. The main aspect is, that the local noise is= decoupled. Because if it is not decoupled, the SNR can quickly decrease= by more than 20dB, as i saw. And 3dB losses are not 3dB less SNR. =20 Perhaps the transmission system can be improved by using special parts. Bu= t are they available for everyone (private, not commercial customers) and= are they in a range below 5EUR? Perhaps you can tell me/us a more suitabl= e type of cable that is perhaps even cheeper?=20 The parts i use in the moment have no special mounting. The fiber optic ca= ble is just cut with a gripper and stuck plugged in the housing of the LED= , thats all. And it can be done many times, thats important... =20 So, do you have an idea of better parts that are cheep and available, with= variable length of the cable, so not preassembled? :-) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Ken Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:56 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at 1300= nm or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What optical wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If you ar= e using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be high= , the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the fibr= e, ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibre ma= y be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduce attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode. In= the 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning optic= al line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-) ),= so rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less than 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DCF39= in the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less noise. So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise, probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the RX. The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already ordered some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s of years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no proble= m for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier with= in the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA) but this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sensitiv= e RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to wor= ry any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/house= to the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise on th= e RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, includin= g the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA462.6EB21565 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEARAAAAEFXOiBMRjogMm5kIHRyeSBv ZiBzZW5kaW5nIHRoZSBwaWMgb2YgbXkgbG9vcCBwcmVhbXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIAGhYBBYAD AA4AAADaBwIAAwAAADIAAAADABsBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAAAyAAAAAwAbAQEJgAEAIQAAADgy MzQwQUQ1MjkwMENBNEJBM0EwRDdBRjhGOTYyMTNDAC0HAQOQBgBUHgAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5 AGUVsm5ipMoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDts PUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwMjIzNTAwMFotMjg4AAAAHgBJAAEAAABEAAAAUmU6IExGOiAy bmQgdHJ5IG9mIHNlbmRpbmcgdGhlIHBpYyBvZiBteSBsb29wIHByZWFtcCB3aXRoIHRoZSBCRjg2 MgBAAE4AgOzQ6mejygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAu b3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dy 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(Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nisj0-0000Q9-S1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:02:43 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so781319bwz.4 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:02:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=XVoBXaqSl3GUlokA87+nFCVayOmKip7G2Skk8WKiGjY=; b=co3q2FqNsKPSj+BPXE6mzlfAG7Cfv11h5ab1WGXSk4btvILOk/bFYsk9qx0fa/YXWf 1QSsdDFlFSQQNsNt1BlmhVvMVWYDKQMFd4vYQBVOkjTul0EExbdW0yqHIr/wLS72DGCu X8m51WQnqrZoQ0X5+p58GK1ekldiKyHcx7wXA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BGNzmZ0uhj5VaizYq7ZTsrXHqAjAk95fkf3gUJUDuxPZ88RS06tUt/a1p6wG9R1bf6 Ohc72AP7ITx2Gd7JBN46BQolRT9mPDWitSbmuhpMWuGWFrrG+HXbTcH1ab57AiEL4afI qiS4K7NBfV6cG/9zdycRSycc4Q3XLLPFZn1Sk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr1823536bkk.206.1266685350797; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:02:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> References: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:02:30 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002200902w2f0d9c68h91b4e843da6f47f9@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m263.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b8015f07df6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horst, You may be interested in my web page about amateur communications below 10kHz. Have you tried grounded electrode pairs and "earth mode" through-the-ground conduction/induction communications? Attenuation is inversely proportional to distance cubed (near field) so more power will help a great deal. I have yet to repeat my own experiments made some years ago, but this time with a mode like WSPR or QRSS, but I suspect that even with just a few watts my range would be considerably further than my 0.3km= s. See http://sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz and do look at the attached .pdf paper (see bottom of the web page) on the subject written so= me years ago by G0AKN (now a silent key). 73s Roger G3XBM On 20 February 2010 16:39, Horst St=F6cker wrote: > Hello, > > some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz > were issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the > Bundesnetzagentur has confirmed last year. > > Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79 kH= z. PA > is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4 Oh= m > into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m top > capacity and poor ground. > > Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS)= . > Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses. > > The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an cit= y > environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a > better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can > make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city the= ODX > ;-)) surely can be improved. > > The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using groun= d > antennas vor TX, RX or both. > > vy73 Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horst,

You may be interested in my web page about amateur communica= tions below 10kHz. Have you tried grounded electrode pairs and "earth= mode" through-the-ground conduction/induction communications? Attenu= ation is inversely proportional to distance cubed (near field) so more pow= er will help a great deal. I have yet to repeat my own experiments made so= me years ago, but this time with a mode like WSPR or QRSS, but I suspect= that even with just a few watts my range would be considerably further= than my 0.3kms.

See http:= //sites.google.com/site/g3xbmqrp/Home/10khz and do look at the attache= d .pdf paper (see bottom of the web page) on the subject written some year= s ago by G0AKN (now a silent key).

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 20 February 20= 10 16:39, Horst St=F6cker <horst.stoecker@web.de> wrote:
Hello,

some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio below 9 kHz we= re issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency range is free as the Bundes= netzagentur has confirmed last year.

Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator actually at 8,79 kHz.= PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4= Ohm into a 100V ELA transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m= top capacity and poor ground.

Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years before (AATIS).= Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly influenced by trees and houses.<= br>
The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to 100m in an city= environment with a highly unmatched antenna makes me believe, that in a= better environment and with a matched antenne and with help of ARGO one= can make tests over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city th= e ODX ;-)) surely can be improved.

The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - or using ground= antennas vor TX, RX or both.

vy73 Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber= 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkt= e.web.de/go/02/




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174a0e026063f204800b2a8f-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.90]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC031-85ff4b7d038d398; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:08:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 17CED38000056; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:08:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2LQ-0001Z5-Fl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2LQ-0001Yw-44 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2LN-0006OA-7i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:06:48 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY100JS75B1JU@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:06:32 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4A64963B847E44CD845276EA2FB089EB@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 18-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55179 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605a4b7d038b3660 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw)" --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All, nice capture XKO, Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 18-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello All,
nice capture XKO,
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 18-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_SCf5oIs3mORkHeh+TgOgEw)-- --Boundary_(ID_IvY/SemevfbKR41Kf4BNng) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="XKO 18-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="XKO 18-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAb8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBggH/8QAGAEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfk6SH2YasThiahKMcru11Mla6apqwhp oo2JLJRQYrsIxlVAbC7YJUOUKyrI4DdKlgQqhRSBAEDC5EsGFmF6L9Eed/RHC95JOWpJCSQ8 eSh9OHADKGNSEVrooSoKGVNxqoqxmBGDdhpg0J2spgMEGtuB0N7DGohgZuFVHGAJcvKjI6Vc KlnTTGOxiiCoKWdT0L549Icr2UqcdXKhcqzx5JPXjIxXKDi2m41aIO22iqtqenOOu5vBdBZe BNMssSjOxUXDFQgCuobu+fLTdloTOiy+NrLpdZryrt0cew32TyZm7wsIa6/S6cY36dMR0Who 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(post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1394138000058; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:07:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrf4-0000Ba-VK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njrf4-0000BR-Jn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njrf2-0001Rz-Jh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA0048BHEREX@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:06:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:06:24 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <031602D5D7714A7BA932F3FDB0A0669D@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XGJ 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HUY+N626IaTG60pgQj9I0Q)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b83a8f70924 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_HUY+N626IaTG60pgQj9I0Q) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g)" --Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Warren,LF Capture XGJ Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XGJ 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_JKhxu+d3ouBrY/1HKF5m5g) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Warren,LF
Capture XGJ
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XGJ 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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1NjgVy-0005XU-9G for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgVx-0005XL-L2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:29 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgVv-00060L-2e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:12:29 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MMCOJo007013 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:25 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:24 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:24 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaF References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.220056 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762" Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55377 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8301961b93 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jacek and group,=20 =20 That are really interesting responses here. That's what i like in this gro= up! =20 Well, perhaps it is not necessary to reach a "DX", DX becomes very relativ= e in that frequency range. 50km sounds like a really good DX here.=20 =20 But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Would= n't that be a nice tool to try what's possible, for a first step? =20 If 750m is possible with 2W TX power and 4m*14m loop then it should be pos= sible to reach some km with a grounded dipole of abt 2x500m. And if the en= ds are grounded, the impedance will decrease. Bandwidth will increase due= to the resistive end loading and the voltage over the coils will decrease= . That will depend by the end capacity and conductivity, of course. Someth= ing like a vertical loop with the second half as the earth. Maybe, if the= formula RA9MB showed is correct, it would be better not to place it on th= e ground but hung it up on some trees. Sure, everything in the near will= be lossy but that's the case at each commercial VLF transmitter as well.= The losses are simply a part of the job.=20 =20 Important is the achieved fascination, isn't it? What would you feel if yo= u would get a contact in QRSS10 to your next VLF interested neighbour, say= in 20km? I expect the biggest problem on VLF is to find a person who is= fascinated in the same manner than one self ;-) I do not know someone in= a radius of 50km who is interested :-( But i will discuss it in our club.= .. =20 BTW, why exactly choosing 8,79 kHz (Horst?)?, why not 8,9 kHz? =20 We all have a great hobby, really! =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Jacek Lipkowski Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 17:25 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS I've done some tests on VLF also, like many others on this group. For antennas i've used a 1.5m x 2.5m 3-turn loop, a 4mx14m 1-turn loop, and coupling to external structures (i won't disscuss this bit here :). Using the third antenna i can receive my vlf beacon abt 750m from here. The power was abt. 2W from a TDA2030: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/20100203/vlfcapt3747.jpg The receiving antenna was a 100turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 90cm. This loop was tuned to resonance and amplified. Using the 4x14m loop and abt. 40w from a TDA1562 i can receive it from 930m: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/ham/vlf/capt0706082213.jpg The receiving antenna was a 50turn loop in a hula-hop toy with a dia. of 80cm. This loop was connected to the amplifier virtual ground (broadband design like "easyloop"). If i remember correctly i could receive 40W into the 1.5x2.5m 3-turn loop at about 500m. Unfortunately i haven't had an opportunity to play with e-field antennas, which should be much more efficient. I've noted that for b-field antennas nearby installations (power lines, phone lines etc) can carry the vlf signal far away (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB40C.1C5D5762 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAFJlOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AGcFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABYAFwAMABgAAQA1AQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAWABcADAAYAAEANQEB CYABACEAAAAxRTJEOTE0NzM4RUU3MTQyODRGNkE2MzI5OEVDNkJGMwAyBwEDkAYA6BcAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQBiV10cDLTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJlOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMjEyMjRaLTk2NQAAAB4ASQABAAAAJgAA AExGOiBSZTogQmVhY29uaW5nIG9uIDguNzkga0h6IGluIFFSU1MAAABAAE4AABVxtNuzygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn 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mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC074-a97e4b77945e5b; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:12:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 41B72380000A4; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:12:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgXhT-0000yP-Aw for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgXhT-0000yG-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:23 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgXhQ-00024P-Dt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:11:22 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.104]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71A8730003 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.21]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Marcin?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <426793dd.10ebb627.4b779405.4fae9@go2.pl> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 07:11:17 +0100 X-Originator: 188.124.178.58 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FROM_EXCESS_QP=0,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Special_Event_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b77945d01f7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Friday, February 19 from 20 UTC runs a Special Event Station SN0JH on= 136kHz band. This will be the only day of activities SN0JH on LF. QRG: 137.700 and 137.777 kHz QSL card via SP2KDS 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC084-a98e4b82af9b356; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 645B4380000FC; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb3W-000296-EE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njb3V-00028x-SW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:45 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.145]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njb3R-0002zc-Ra for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:22:45 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so120669qwf.16 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:22:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=G25gInMjri8jjM0nsvJf7p1VPohb6iIHuMR2ZhfwFFY=; b=eBt3pI9bID++jZGHSELgg5K358QpOhnwIy+nZHSQIBDW4IIHnDdNKBRnBCZgyWMfTy KUyQPhGAFEZVxO7FGTlLvx3hB/oC27t3M3lnAKKsqPl4XnDgUVo0DrX0GtT8o9kZn3eJ NUyxo2gKEOlC6Csg1lwN9wzPvKJER/W4B5umc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IdA1vbCzm5KLL0/SKYSALUSyWb2VkuMxnPrG4txxYxipsVpWh3HHP9ZCTlE7fyeZiO Vx54OCVb9L3pOcGhLhZrahtbpoc77pt9Hp+X4F38fhJfkXhkV8ys5536As2uK6wMwshN 4oNi5u491nJZvQRgvKOMiE4IE+7sg357DdZA8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.89.194 with SMTP id f2mr548086qam.350.1266855751806; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:22:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:22:31 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d264.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b82af966fa0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA = wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to= contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time= maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remembe= r was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we= control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be= issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be wo= rthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE064-5eb94b748e4aa6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:10:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E22FD380000BD; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfi9h-0002oP-Ny for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfi9h-0002oG-E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfi9f-00062s-FH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:09:05 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1BN8tDJ031961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:38:55 -0330 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:38:55 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: blacksheep In-Reply-To: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> Message-ID: References: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4b748e48002d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Henny, Many thanks for the capture. 73 Joe VO1NA On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, henny van elst wrote: > Hi Joe,LF > capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ > Henny pa3cpm > best 73s > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: > VX9MRC 11-02.jpg > > Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj08.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.92]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b8a23e93af; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:06:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 120B738000052; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:05:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nle92-0001iM-7c for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nle91-0001iD-R2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:55 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nle8y-0006Tu-Gb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:04:55 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.195]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1S84dK4026126 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:39 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 44D53E000085 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:04:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:04:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c34b8a23975d73 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: WPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b04b8a23e71096 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning Lubos, LF, the interfering signal was also quite strong here: http://www.alice-ds= l.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg. It was due to a QRSS-3 transmissi= on from OE5ODL, using a slightly drifting transmitter. I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid extended beacon transmissions= in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be willing to move to the "Eu= slot", if only there were more active grabbers, also from the America= n side. Have a nice sunday, Markus ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: _RSGB_LF=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:47 AM Subject: LF: WPF Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crosse= d by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know,= what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the= city. The signal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good morning Lubos, LF,
 
the interfering signal was also quit= e strong=20 here: http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LF/testTA1002280400.jpg.=20 It was due to a QRSS-3 transmission from OE5ODL, using= a slightly=20 drifting transmitter.
 
I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid=20 extended beacon transmissions in or near the "TA waterhole". He= would be=20 willing to move to the "Eu slot", if only there were mo= re active=20 grabbers, also from the American side.
 
Have a nice sunday,
Markus
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 20= 10 5:47=20 AM
Subject: LF: WPF

Hello LF!
I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as us= ual.=20 Suddenly, It was crossed by strange and very strong - see the enclos= ure. Does=20 anybody know, what it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiv= er outside=20 the city. The signal was 30dB up the noise.

73!

Lubos,= =20 OK2BVG

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D
= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAB855.06A0E8A0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.13]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME022-8ba54b8a8289ca; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:49:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 08F49380000E0; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:49:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlkRj-0005QA-Jj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlkRj-0005Q1-4F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlkRg-0008Ay-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SEmOrg013524 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:48:26 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00231 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:53:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:53:05 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:48:28 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b8a828773f8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) MNI TNX Markus. Thus noise level on 9 kHz can be expected abt 1.3*SQRT(1/0.063) = 5.2 uV/m in 1 Hz by this data. Essentually less then Jim mesured. Thus Stefans sigs with 20 kV on kite ANT should be detectable at 100 km (2.5 uV/m) at least in qrss90. Another way of calculation yelds the samilar result: Stefan's power expected abt 1 mW. 1000 times more then your 1 uW. Then distance should be SQRT(1000)=30 times more. 6km * 30 = 180 km. Certanly at 100 km there should be some influence of ionosphere. But seems it is not very strong yet. Besides good fact is that ionosphere should increase sigs not decrease. It is pity Stefan can not radiate today. But let's look forward. On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:06:35 +0100 > From: Markus Vester > Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > Dear Alexander, LF, > > the frequency rulers of the modified Argo are actually correct, and you can see how I reduced the bandwidth when going further away. The minimum setting was 90 second dots, giving 0.042 Hz FFT resolution when running at 4x normal samplerate (ie. 0.063 Hz noise BW) . > > The marginal "T" trace at 6 km was probably no more than 0 dB SNR. Thus the noise level (including spherics) would have been on the order of 15 dBuV/m/sqrtHz. > > Best 73, > Markus, DF6NM > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alexander S. Yurkov > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:33 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > > On Sat, 27 Feb 2010, Markus Vester wrote: > > In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating > > about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. > > height). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m > > fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the laptop > > soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screenshot, > > along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patched for > > 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at > > http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range > > was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No > > noiseblanking was attempted at the time. > > Dear Markus, > In what qrss mode (FFT-bandwith) you resived such a signal? P=1uW D=6km > yelds E=1.3uV/m It seems to be usefull to estimate noise level. But we > should normalyze this to bandwith. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-a97c4b6df29e106; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:52:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 353ED38000128; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 17:52:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdtUH-0006ZY-4a for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdtUG-0006ZP-Fh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:48 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdtUE-0007PD-4q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:50:48 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o16Moivs012419 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:50:45 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:50:44 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:50:43 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: active ant on metallic mast Thread-Index: AcqnLBzyrShBW58pQ76YPb9JbK7HfgAGwooBAAb2dyAABTAOeA== References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.6.223623 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9" Subject: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b6df29d29ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Victor,=20 =20 Where can i get the design of your preamp? Is it a broad band design or al= so with some band pass filters? Is it with FETs and/or with OP amps? 28V?= I assume +-14V, right? ;-) Is in this shed a 230V supply or is it completely ("electrically") apart= from the house? =20 "Less qrm and higher output", does this mean the noise level itself decrea= sed, so not compared to the wanted signal? If hight increases and the infl= uence of surrounding lossy things decreases, the E-Field and thus the inpu= t voltage increases, and thus the SNR, if noise level remains the same. An= d if you then decrease the AF of your RX to get again a proper visible sig= nal in e.g. Argo, the noise gets into the background. But does the noisele= vel itself decreases also significantly? If so, there must be a noise sour= ce in the near of the shed, isn't it? =20 I think when i will do the test with the active antenna with the 2 UKW var= iable antennas, i will mount it to the kite and look how it depends when= it is 50m above ground, completely isolated. Perhaps not very useful but= interesting ;-) =20 You decreased the lenght from 1m to 60cm. Have you also tried 30cm? A hight of 7m gave the best results you said. So things get worse, when yo= u go to 10m hight?? If so, what do you think is the reason for that? Or is= the shed under a 400kV power line? ;-) =20 Victor and Roelof, tnx for your hints and ideas. I like that conversation= and i like to try mni unusual things. A receiving loop will give the best= signal i assume, but it is not very easy to handle if one is always /p.= =20 =20 Congrats to the canadian stns to be back on LF!! Hpe to get a contact to= VO1NA next! But since 6 weeks there is almost no wind at weekend, the lon= gest break since 2 years :-( But i will be back with a big signal :-) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von victor13@online.nl Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 20:46 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Hello Stefan,Roelof, =20 for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The ante= nna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height betw= een 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low= output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and high= er output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.= At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from local= mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I repla= ced the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same po= tential as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre ch= anges things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws= 120mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, =20 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namen= s Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast =20 =20 Hi Roelof, LF, =20 Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question!= "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a signa= l but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the ap= plication is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mast, the= capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be very= high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element= (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm so= urces? I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comp= arale i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) =20 A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since in= a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just= a few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen,= when the case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element= (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in= the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one= has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a= short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that= is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground pl= ane, e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignorin= g the local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? =20 On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active antenna= mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were vy= bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active elemen= t since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length= was still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal= ! So less and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? =20 I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through th= e ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy envir= onment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was also 2m= up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial, even= without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by mo= re gain but SNR decreases, of course. =20 What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same= "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 =20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pl= ay with ;-) =20 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted =20 =20 Hello Stefan, =20 Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't wo= rk=20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a=20 suitable mast. =20 73, Roelof, pa0rdt =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA77E.D06143B9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii0WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAJAAAAEFXOiBSRTogYWN0aXZlIGFu dCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AP8LAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAYAFwAyACsABgBjAQEggAMADgAAANoH AgAGABcAMgArAAYAYwEBCYABACEAAAA3RTUxNjgyQjQ0QzMzODQ1ODk5RkEyQUZEODIyNTg4OQAe BwEDkAYAFCYAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQC5Q2HQfqfKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFH AAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDYyMjUwNDNaLTQ0 MgAAAB4ASQABAAAAJAAAAExGOiBSRTogYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AEAATgCA PPIEZafKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIB WwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxh 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air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF082-5eff4b7f05572b9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:40:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DB63938000354; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:40:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaZF-0006op-AI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiaZE-0006og-S9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiaZC-0002wA-9o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BCC5F000C for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4deebfc4.7d1417b.4b7f0504.749e3@go2.pl Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:16 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b7f05541191 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marco Crosband QSO 136kHz/80m no problem. One moment. We ending random two way= QSO with SO5AS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b85558d1e9; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E59DB3800009B; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKCd-0006Hc-7i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKCc-0006HT-RF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:10 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKCa-0005ew-5Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:10 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F24F7B8047 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFF931E702 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:35:01 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:33:19 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9IAAEY8GAAAIA5xA== Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, ,<38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DBA@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b8555817a67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Chris, the values are measrued with antenna in resonance, so they are "ohmic". It is the sume of all kind of losses (soil, greenery, coil) and (almost ne= glectable) the radiation resistance. 73, Rik ON7YD ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: woensdag 24 februari 2010 17:23 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Hi Rik and others, Thanks for your contribution. > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH: 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm Do you mean resistance in the strict sense, i.e. the resistive component= of impedance; or in the rough sense, i.e. the ratio between voltage and= current, which is actually the modulus of impedance? I ask because there are capacitance and capacitance-like effects in the gr= ound. If you are looking at (in effect) a resistance in series with a capa= citance, that could explain the 1/f effect. Regards, Chris G4OKW PS - more details can be found in Keller, G.V. & Frishcknecht, F.C. / Elec= trical Methods in Geoprospecting / Pergamon (1966). See in particular chap= 1 - or probably skim it, as it is detailed and can get a bit boring. Pp.= 43-55 talk about these capacitive-like effects. The size of the 'capacita= nce' (capacitance, not its reactance!) even varies with frequency. If you= look at the graph on p.52 you may need to reach for a bottle of the stron= g stuff ;-) ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI074-eb654b745a10ef; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:27:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 55F22380002B3; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:27:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfefb-0001IV-01 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nfefa-0001IM-JK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:46 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfefY-0004Y6-9O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:25:46 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1BJPfjF013481 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:42 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:41 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:25:40 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Fiber optic components Thread-Index: AcqrRrkQsEv1ZWMBQMq4dW1uSqfSmgACCV3w References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.11.191536 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5" Subject: AW: LF: Fiber optic components X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b745a0d3d46 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roelof,=20 =20 My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V (6,= 58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward cur= rent. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough, so= perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same current,= say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see the= light coming into the shack... =20 The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there.=20 =20 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, Thank you all. Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. I am not that desperate yet. These items are advertised as low cost.... I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. However these are also hard to find. I will look into it a bit further. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IioTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAEFXOiBMRjogRmliZXIgb3B0 aWMgY29tcG9uZW50cwBrCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgALABQAGQAoAAQARwEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIACwAU ABkAKQAEAEgBAQmAAQAfAAAANDBERTE3RjE4NzdCNEM5M0JBODMyNzY1NUQwNzA2AJ8GAQOQBgDo EAAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOUqbP9Pq8oBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIA AABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIxMTE5MjU0MFotNjM0AAAAHgBJ AAEAAAAfAAAAUmU6IExGOiBGaWJlciBvcHRpYyBjb21wb25lbnRzAABAAE4AAN4180SrygEeAFoA AQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAA AAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01U 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AQAAAAIAAAAuAAAAAwB2QP////8LACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGEAZX8wgDAAcQLQMAAAMAEBAA AAAAAwAREAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISVJPRUxPRixNWUhJTlRJU0hUVFA6Ly9XV1dFTFBST09S Ry9TSE9QUEhQP1A9U0ZIKzc1NytWRk9SVEhFU0ZINzU3Vig2LDU4RVVSKSxXSElDSEhBU1RIRVNB TUVXQVZFTEVOAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFEMEREODVF ODJBMUFGNUBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AABy pw== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB4F.FF6C2AE5-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF094-8bfc4b82a7912d3; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:49:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CC11038000054; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:49:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaWZ-0001kr-Cf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaWY-0001ki-Tg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:42 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.149]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaWV-0002gF-2X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:48:42 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so114409qwf.16 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:48:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=f/uqEvRZtBKFbApTSEBVzgkJsk5m2uJE7h397sUCSZ0=; b=KwcNSdVi88xxO0B+vofTfSbykH/c7urim/RvWGrC07NrmW+Xvzkmj9Qtk71+90UatN M+ce5BLsGUSBzEpGe9WtmpsU1bZRU/hz4zaDiI7D5IaB91gWkz1cVOup3ZsGOxYGchHz qiGzqe2vtXiuXoPp4mK8Y3j04t179R3OBvuaM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=G5GGOkjnzlgAAUkoBtdQHWwn8rdd2FO7Vknj+J5p8Jt49cMXncmmE4CjTj/o0m7095 UVoynfsdAA/3NEZ6r1C5N7gveMbsR9UwlWyMMQQoeBbtakNBcCvYGguMB1u4sovJWKT+ q/enr/zalEIXoldi/cF5P3ho2QKmKV3aZQ35c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.26.78 with SMTP id d14mr6113830qac.21.1266853714952; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:48:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:34 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220748gb1054bct9728389c983b4aec@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m249.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b82a78f5fe7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Roger, Thanks for the tip on the papers. I downloaded the NATO AGARD paper from the NATO ftp site: ftp://ftp.rta.nato.int//PubFullText/AGARD/CP/AGARD-CP-529/AGARDCP529.pdf Beware that it is 42MB and the server is slow! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Roger Lapthorn = wrote: > It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to. > > Here are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and > practicalities: > > > > > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 22 February 2010 10:03, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are probab= ly >> the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these work in the >> literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on= the >> internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see >> http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal >> processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power= . >> Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes >> Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms= . >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >>> >>> Hello Horst, >>> >>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OM= s >>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to te= st. >>> >>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t >>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna towe= r. >>> There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in paralle= l. You >>> do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire >>> and nobody will care about it. >>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some tre= es >>> on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The= loop >>> has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from= 160m >>> to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a >>> problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x= 10*100m >>> on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... >>> >>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) >>> >>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial= VLF >>> stations in that range? Are there some? >>> >>> 73, Stefan >>> >>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >>> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >>> >>> >>> >>> Hallo Stefan, >>> >>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range >>> <9kHz is free. >>> >>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a >>> letter which confirmed that. >>> >>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not ne= ed >>> one. >>> >>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. >>> >>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >>> >>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >>> >>> Horst >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >>> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.224]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD083-8b924b8a66cd1e3; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:51:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4DF203800009A; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NliaR-0004Dq-Ue for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NliaQ-0004Dh-OY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:30 +0000 Received: from imr-da06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.169.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NliaO-0007Tj-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:49:30 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.193]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SCnFB8011144 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:49:15 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 3CD74E0000A9 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:49:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:48:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c14b8a664a61c6 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60e04b8a66cb5b55 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform the gr= oup that because of much heavier winds than expected, he will not be= able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also mentioned that= the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit) will require= some more work. Kind regards, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinder.= com/forecast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a stren= ght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for= tests. That is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 100m= H but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily ha= ndle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire. The= re are several possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage,= well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this may= be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first tes= t at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and= there are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the= chance to resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate= it in the living room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry it= in my room in the first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with= 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS= VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in this= way i will be able to make a transformation of the resonated loop!(va= rying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am excited how= the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try= to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend= some time with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/DF6= NM to give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S.= Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amate= ur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of= the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs wo= uld > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't= be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big= town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure= =20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz= . There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main pr= oblem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable wi= th some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should= avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting ri= ngs' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too= high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed special= ly for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite ante= nna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical,= does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity= 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we= see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What= is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time= to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave= zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast= with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT volt= age only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the= last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
Stefan DK7FC just called me on the ph= one. He asked=20 me to inform the group that because of much heavier winds than expecte= d, he will=20 not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also= mentioned=20 that the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS circuit= ) will=20 require some more work.
 
Kind regards,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 27,= 2010 3:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: VLF TX experimen= ts this=20 sunday becomes more probably

Dear LF group,
 
Tomorrow, the wind forec= ast is=20 excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt
It=20 is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a strenght= of=20 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tests= . That is=20 the first positive news.
 
Yesterday i got such a air coi= l. It has=20 not 85mH but even about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just abou= t 38.=20 Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the maximum volt= age on my=20 single wire. There are several possibilities to increase the maximum= antenna=20 voltage, well known and applied in the high voltage power fields but= this may=20 be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with a first te= st at only=20 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-)
 
That coil= is very=20 heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and there are better= ways to=20 realisethat. But it is available i get the chance to resonate that= 100m=20 vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living room of my= parents=20 since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the first floor ;-)= It was=20 successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lower voltage C in ser= ies, about=20 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output, loosely coupled by anoth= er air=20 coil (in this way i will be able to make a transformation of the res= onated=20 loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well audible so i am ex= cited how=20 the antenna and coil will sound when some 100W applied;-)
 <= BR>The=20 last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try to= built it=20 today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend some time= with my=20 YL. I hope that can be arranged...
 
On the hill i have= no internet=20 but i will at least inform Markus/DF6NM to give those who are intere= sted a=20 information here...
 
I have to go now, and will inform= =20 you...
 
73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org=20 im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov
Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37<= BR>An: rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org
Betreff:=20 RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?



> when back in the mid 90's the initial requ= est for a=20 longwave amateur
> segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz= ) was=20 discussed, one of the
> big telecom "bobo's" stated that they= saw no=20 harm that amateurs would
> transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP= as with=20 that power one wouldn't be
> able to get any further than the= other end=20 of the town.
> It turned out a bit different, unless you see= the world=20 as one big town ;-)

Rik, after some theoretical estimations= done i am=20 absolutely shure
QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more= ) is=20 posible on 9 kHz.
There is lot of problems on TX side but them to= be=20 solvable. Main problem
is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 10= 0 - 200 kV=20 is reachable with
some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. Fo= r example=20 one should avoid
free end of a wire with such a voltage. On shoul= d use=20 'protecting rings'
on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to= be posible=20 use not too high
antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marc= oni=20 designed specially for
high voltage is adequate. Remember effecti= ve height=20 of 60m kite antenna
used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was= =20 absolutelly vertical, does
it was?). With not too high voltage an= d not too=20 large ANT capacity 4.5 km
was reached. Another key problem is noi= se level=20 on this freq. Now we see
huge discrepancy on the noise level got= from=20 different sourses. What is
the real noise level is not obvious no= w. Can it=20 be much  lower time to
time? Experements to be usefull. Look= at DK8KW=20 web side where 4.5 km
experiment is described. Waterfall backgrou= nd is too=20 smooth. Where
spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity= was not=20 as
high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the= wave=20 zone
on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not= too fast=20 with
distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where=20 'waveguide'
propagation starts. At such distances one shold incre= ase TX ANT=20 voltage
only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway= =20 Stefan's
experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will= be not the=20 last
experiment.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB



------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAB87C.C745DB20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.73]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b69d9f536f; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:17:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 11865380001D6; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:17:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncleq-0006Rd-9S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nclep-0006RT-Sv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:03 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nclen-0002hZ-PC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:03 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KH09a018944 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:17:01 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:17:00 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:15:39 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE0@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wABAMnP References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.200033 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40494b69d9f23b1e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, it's Jim/M0BMU! Tnx Jim. But still difficult here. My Loop is still no= t here so i cannot compare it with the E-field ant... ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von rn3agc Gesendet: Mi 03.02.2010 20:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is jus= t 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screens= hots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGwAAAEFXOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWdu YWwgd2FudGVkAAQJAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFQAPACcAAwA0AQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABUAEQAA AAMADwEBCYABACEAAAA1NEIxQjcxM0Y3MjE0MDQ1ODYwNEY0MDIyREFBQTRBQwAFBwEDkAYATA8A ADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDV8DWnDaXKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMyMDE3MDBaLTMzNwAAAB4ASQAB AAAAGwAAAExGOiBSZTogdGVzdCBzaWduYWwgd2FudGVkAABAAE4AAPdo3wilygEeAFoAAQAAACMA 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cnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQuZGU+AADXqQ== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.D7C9DA95-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI032-eabf4b744cd9326; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:30:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 96ADE38000148; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:30:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdnN-000122-CV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfdnN-00011t-2N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfdnL-0004An-Fa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:45 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1BITbTf084545 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:29:42 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:37 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fiber optic components Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b744cd7171c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all, Problem solved; Rapid Electronics carries both the SFH350v and SFH756V at very reasonable cost. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC063-86524b69334e164; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:26:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D782380000E1; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:26:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcaYX-0001kf-5U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcaYW-0001kW-Mb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:48 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcaYT-0005Kr-VI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:25:48 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822BE51C004 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:25:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D257F3862 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:25:23 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:25:36 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b69334c7ca4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about 20mW. At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with him, receiving a 559 report. Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE081-5ebe4b82e13539c; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:55:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DD959380000AE; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeMY-00049T-Q7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeMY-00049K-CS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeMV-0004xS-D0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:38 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2037816bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:54:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3DjWPlrA71e0nJKDGblY3Tfa9xOlVBwU6MZ7Dr6Xgg4=; b=LS1bz1hxD6uKUa3+WbNtg2wUvmNbxILHreOtvXTsrsJ6UdBOtkoFCtCtz6v9vGx9XQ ld+43lcXGdpRHFiGP4i8jUde2jjearCQCqngMKuxpStZsS6dJPwACRm9aheD3ZQqQBey 61N2Fgk+mftz7stNiKr6YWi2EaeRUs+Q0VIJE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=UTDv3k977S15p5m75JpwuhKjzBZJO8LRy/L/OHp21uwJ+NcaQu26rVQ4RbAIiYgsM8 Ldr9GMvM9LVP6EXNvYVeTuud4Oi63zJpXgi3tpgfV7rt/Acm1T5p/MntGhTi5j2E+H+z PQJg8YI7JnMqjLlHhS1tonoDU/zLzK1WKc1Bg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.16.66 with SMTP id n2mr2506503bka.67.1266868469632; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:54:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:54:29 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b82e133525e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in USB bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse cube attenuation rate. I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode communications? 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 > and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. An > article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of the > AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online for > G0AKN. > > Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes > used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved with a > 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. > > 73 > John Rabson > F5VLF > 58800 Cervon > France > JN17vg > > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in US= B bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that= considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse= cube attenuation rate.

I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode= communications?

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON <john.rabson@numeo.fr> wrote:
If I recall cor= rectly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well as 73 and 136 kHz.= =A0G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information. =A0An articl= e by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 =A0issue of the AM= RAD newsletter. =A0More information may be found by searching online for= G0AKN.

Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometimes= used frequencies as low as 27kHz. =A0The maximum range we have achieved= with a 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres.

73
John Rabson
F5VLF
58800 Cervon
France
JN17vg








--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555412a1c10fc048035cd56-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.154]) by air-da02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA023-863a4b84ebd41c1; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:05:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2F6BA3800009B; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkD9p-0004Zt-J7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkD9p-0004Zk-1s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.76.154]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkD9n-0001lK-6C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:49 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1O93fW7011503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:41 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:41 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:03:39 +0000 Thread-Topic: Loran, GPS and jamming Thread-Index: Acq1MEHn9X/BBKHqQpeJlSm6c6rSxw== Message-ID: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Loran, GPS and jamming Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdec94b84ebd35a1c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear All, There was some discussion on this group a while ago about GPS jamming test= s, and many of us have an interest in Loran. There is an item on the BBC= news site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8533157.stm=20 mainly about GPS jamming, but with mention of eLoran lower down. You might= find it interesting. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.20]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b696d515f; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:34:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 70FB938000108; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NceP4-0003bZ-G3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NceP4-0003bQ-1n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NceP2-0007E7-Ff for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:18 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o13CWAMr042746 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:15 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: <85C9E30559EA47438F7830C6FE887E08@PCvanAlbert> From: "Albert" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60144b696d4f47fa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Jay and others, I will be QRV coming nights on 502.4 kHz in normal CW (15 wpm) , starting at 22:00 UTC and calling CQ DX untill I fall asleep or the TX gets overheated. I hope for a QSO with USA one of the coming nights. Please spead the news, where useful. 73, Albert PA0A loc JO33DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF051-5ef24b84076733e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:50:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 13D10380000A2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:50:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxxE-0002PE-4y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjxxD-0002P5-Kc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:47 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjxxA-0005Lt-My for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:47 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAFOVg0tcGOT+/2dsb2JhbACNDwONenO9a4JAgiwE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,527,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="303313691" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.228.254]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 16:49:17 +0000 Message-ID: <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:49:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40564b84075e4e61 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator= TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim mi= ght join in. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM Subject: Re: LF: DATA Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.=20 Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m= from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W= WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and fr= om FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testin= g on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots= of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help= seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wil= l be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experime= nts. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again= soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. Ho= wever, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views,= even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM=20 On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrot= e: Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24= Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmi= ssions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the= novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are= still going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to th= e fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr= etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It wou= ld appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dr= eamers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I= have a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roger
Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is= but the latest=20 Appliance Operator TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look= out for=20 you, Jim might join in.
 
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 23,= 2010 4:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: DATA

Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your= email.=20

Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked= on 10m=20 from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode= the 1W=20 WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and= from FR1GZ=20 (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on th= e higher=20 HF bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR= activity=20 on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleetin= g=20 openings. PSK31 is widely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz,= clearly=20 it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there= is much=20 that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with= this in=20 the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signa= l=20 techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance op= erators"=20 are not helpful.  However, it's a free country and you're entit= led to=20 express your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger= G3XBM=20


On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3ke= vmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Generally band condx vy good at= present from LF=20 to HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some= strong USA=20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of= Amtor, Pactor=20 and packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the= =20 years.
Observations indicate that data= mode acty does=20 not last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional mode= s CW, SSB=20 and RTTY are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty= are data but I=20 am referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet= and all=20 the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any= of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham ope= rators are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, an= d the=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF= below 9 Kcs I=20 will listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
 
de G3KEV
 
 



--=20

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http:/= /www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM=20    GQRP 1678      ISWL=20 G11088
------=_NextPart_000_0047_01CAB4A8.21AC5D10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b8abd31d3; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:00:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1EB4D38000147; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NloME-0008S5-2R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NloMD-0008Rw-NO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:13 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NloMA-0001CO-Pm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:59:13 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai4HAMJLiktOkz18/2dsb2JhbACHTZNPc7g0hHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="303888402" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.61.124]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2010 18:57:41 +0000 Message-ID: <004201cab8a7$e641ed90$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:57:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b8abd3022fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jacek The response is ABUSE this is all they know. mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacek Lipkowski" To: Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, mal hamilton wrote: > > > It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not > > have a sense of Humour!! > > Mal, you need to get an additional license for humour these days :) > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.18]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC102-862e4b670be4359; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:14:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D66C7380078F7; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbzmi-0002HU-Fr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nbzmi-0002HL-5G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from mout6.freenet.de ([195.4.92.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nbzmh-0000A0-2w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:10:00 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.13] (helo=3.mx.freenet.de) by mout6.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1Nbzmf-0007MV-MS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:57 +0100 Received: from blfd-4db0e3a8.pool.mediaways.net ([77.176.227.168]:2750 helo=[192.168.178.22]) by 3.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID dl4yhf@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1Nbzmf-00024J-F5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:57 +0100 Message-ID: <4B670AE2.7040600@freenet.de> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:09:54 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?V29sZmdhbmcgQsO8c2NoZXI=?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1f0624b91001310901s4b277bfdl34710411e4185839@mail.gmail.com> <1C05E50A54B4465193C903D46F3566E6@JimPC> <1f0624b91001311347v4db2dd59k65607d8b6240452c@mail.gmail.com> <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> In-Reply-To: <1D14DADC9C6548C993B922BCCBFE2631@Black> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 500 kHz BPSK08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60124b670b1d60b3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Markus and group, > The extra {10} may be just SpecLab's way of displaying a linefeed. Exactly that. Each received non-printing character is simply dumped as a decimal code in curly braces. The linefeed character (code 10) should be ignored if it follows a carriage return (code 13), but I didn't care about this too much when implementing the digimode terminal. 73, Wolf DL4YHF (still QRT on LF.. and waiting for a german MF allocation..) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.218]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b6f7b81331; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:48:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2653738000104; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeJeK-00079U-45 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeJeJ-00079L-NU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:55 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s16.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.27]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeJeH-0005vy-MZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:46:55 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W12 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s16.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:46:46 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [70.241.49.5] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:46:46 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2010 02:46:46.0527 (UTC) FILETIME=[F47B58F0:01CAA868] X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.014,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_" Subject: RE: LF: LoranView Grabber X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6f7b7f0c4b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey MArkus - nice! Its going to be interesting to see how and when they cl= ose down but a shame that such a good tool (on the American side) is going= to be lost. As you can see Im still very unsettled and still living out= of a hotel room here in Oklahoma=20 =20 =20 Cheers From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100 Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber Dear LF, =20 I have tried to set up an experimental "live" screen grabber for 100 kHz= Loran-C: =20 http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm =20 Display averaging is 5 minutes, with uploads approximately every 15 minute= s. Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still playing around with the soft= ware. =20 There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmitters= , giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across the Northern hemi= sphere. And there are many interesting details, like multiple skywave hops= separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips following solar flares. =20 Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Loran-C is schedu= led for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see what will change by tomorr= ow night. =20 =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/=3D --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey MArkus - nice! Its going to be interesting to see how and when th= ey close down but a shame that such a good tool (on the American side) is= going to be lost. As you can see Im still very unsettled and still= living out of a hotel room here in Oklahoma 3D""
 
 
Cheers
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Su= n, 7 Feb 2010 21:44:37 +0100
Subject: LF: LoranView Grabber

Dear LF,
 
I have tried to set up an experimental&nb= sp;"live" screen grabber for 100 kHz Loran-C:
 
 
Display averaging is 5 minutes, = ;with uploads approximately every 15 minutes.  Not sure how stable this is, as I'm still play= ing around with the software.
 
There are signal traces from up to 69 active Loran and Chayka transmi= tters, giving an almost instant view of LF propagation across th= e Northern hemisphere. And there are many interesting details, like= multiple skywave hops separated in time domain, or pronounced SID dips fo= llowing solar flares.
 
Unfortunately the fun may not last long, as all American Lo= ran-C is scheduled for closure after 20:00 Feb 8th - we'll see&n= bsp;what will change by tomorrow night.  
 
73, Ma= rkus (DF6NM)
 
=
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM prote= ction. Sign up now. =3D --_f521305d-01be-4ee9-89e6-a358239e4c24_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI061-eaca4b7f26ef30a; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:03:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B648D380000B4; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nico8-0007kc-MR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nico8-0007kT-C1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nico6-0003tX-Pj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:02:52 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB095F0003 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from o2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.67]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:49 +0100 (CET) From: bxi@go2.pl To: =?UTF-8?Q?rsgb=5Flf=5Fgroup_@_blacksheep._org?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:02:48 +0100 X-Originator: 89.76.56.60 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,INVALID_MSGID=1.71,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,SUBJECT_EXCESS_QP=0 Subject: LF: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Re:_Re:_RE:_Special_evening_Station_SN0JH?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=INVALID_MSGID,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b7f26ed6afa X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Veit I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? >=20 > Veit DL7ET From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-di01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI013-eab84b70778aac; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:43:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0DC2F38017A44; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeZwk-0001Bn-D0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeZwj-0001Be-SB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:01 +0000 Received: from smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.123]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeZwh-0003ud-8f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:11:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 46211 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2010 20:10:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Thread-Index:Importance; b=ko0fKNWiDITXDcRizLU02tkw3Twy/QHGNedoxCVwcn6xCn5/M5vaE1vvuPofvfYjck9k0xjQHRT6EtaXbMpJSfn9sg/yw6osaUSDc30sr7z8Bh6qoqznPRBQ65LCcWE1kxvOKp669ORmZzJWA75jHYHW4OBGrEv0o7uSF3DkCf8= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Inspiron) (hudsonville@86.144.17.24 with login) by smtp826.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2010 20:10:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: T9P8HheswBCXVWXq3ajpBY99bVSvRxQZ2abOUyeQ53_fqQzzpx0V X-YMail-OSG: kTcIamcVM1kkLqSLQsinMCM_Z5YX4YC1NKSr3La9a7AMw08OOAZlkZP_RQ7.mylNOYcwinU2CBdK2jNN2idJrThMBXMPoxKVQPrWnqaWBK2h49ycKKa7fKm0R434_LfSxOcxZaNAq7bQmrg4o5aTAIlskRq4g5BUnVYq4b.BkSkPQ.lI7CB8OhrNJe.2cMB6P3HuViuEbicAwmZ2gYHHVJTamgcCOelUtaynV8DpKLOJ5w3ktXVgE3tj.tIY5v9dNU8.daOCgkMP X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Lee Hudson" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:10:52 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcqoIoBlrM3slppiQB+z3Fen/bAmoQA0Co+g Importance: Normal DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b70705c71b8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy, Jim, LF Group, =20 I did a similar test back in January and had similar results using a= 20Hz bandwidth on WE2XGR/6 and managed 20dB or so improvement. The WSPR spectrogram showed nicely the ripples in the filter used, and appeared to be a limiting factor as to how far you could go. Also WSPR spent more time trying to recover something from these rippl= es, in one case nearly the full 2 mins. =20 Test was triggered also by too good to be true signal reports from som= e stations, as Andy has spotted. Interestingly these stations would fail to report other stations that= should clearly be readable given the S/N ratios reported. =20 With careful inspection of the reports it was sort of possible to get= a feel for what bandwidth was actually being monitored. But not conclusive en= ough to be sure. A transmitting station that drifted through the WSPR band= was very handy for highlighting this. Looking at the spread of S/N reports you would also find a sudden cut= off point way above -30dB norm were reports would not be given and this co= uld be an indicator of the gain achievable by over filtering that should tie= in with your findings. Rather than spend hours analysing logs, and contemplating how my stati= on could be improved further, it was much easier to discount these report= s all together as being unreliable and of no use. =20 73, Lee M0LMH. =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Andy Talbot Sent: 07 February 2010 18:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported= by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a dire= ct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. =20 The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz,= the reported S/N increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but th= ese were more than enough to show the effect. =20 Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but the results can be summarised as : =20 ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want artificially high SNR reports ----------------------- =20 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the= full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com =20 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2674 - Release Date: 02/07/= 10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi=20 Andy, Jim, LF Group,
 
I did=20 a similar test back in January and had similar results using a 20Hz ba= ndwidth on=20 WE2XGR/6 and managed 20dB or so improvement.
The=20 WSPR spectrogram showed nicely the ripples in the filter used, and app= eared to=20 be a limiting factor as to how far you could go.
Also=20 WSPR spent more time trying to recover something from these ripples,= in one case=20 nearly the full 2 mins.
 
Test=20 was triggered also by too good to be true signal reports from some sta= tions, as=20 Andy has spotted.
Interestingly these stations would fail to report other= stations that=20 should clearly be readable given the S/N ratios reported.
 
With=20 careful inspection of the reports it was sort of possible to get a fee= l for what=20 bandwidth was actually being monitored. But not conclusive eno= ugh to be sure. A=20 transmitting station that drifted through the WSPR band was very handy= for=20 highlighting this.
Looking at the spread of S/N reports you would also fin= d a sudden cut=20 off point way above -30dB norm were reports would not be given and thi= s could be=20 an indicator of the gain achievable by over filtering that should tie= in with=20 your findings.
Rather=20 than spend hours analysing logs, and contemplating how my station coul= d be=20 improved further, it was much easier to discount these reports all tog= ether as=20 being unreliable and of no use.
 
73,
Lee=20 M0LMH.
 
-----Original Message-----
Fro= m:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org]=20 On Behalf Of Andy Talbot
Sent: 07 February 2010=20 18:21
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc:=20 jfell@tesco.net
Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests

=
To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of  S/= N reported=20 by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements= over a=20 direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.<= /DIV>
 
The results were dramatic.  With receive bandwidths= less than=20 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.   It was= only=20 possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with= the=20 SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect.
 
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf =20 but the results can be summarised as :
 
-------------   Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unl= ess you=20 want artificially high SNR reports  =20  -----------------------
 
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to= see the=20 full noise band is OK.

No virus found in this incoming messa= ge.
Checked=20 by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2= 674 -=20 Release Date: 02/07/10 19:35:00

------=_NextPart_000_0089_01CAA8FA.D0D43920-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC033-864f4b81284d1c5; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:34:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2AA2A38000091; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjAzC-0006NZ-PH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjAzC-0006NQ-9n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjAzA-0002ON-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:32:34 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4584C802B for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB694C80E6 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:25 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B8127D9.70602@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:32:25 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b81284c2a57 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Andy , Andy Talbot a =E9crit : > Jean - Pierre... > > Is the circuit diagram correct ? =20 Yes my diagram is correct > Your two final op-amps used as > differential amplifiers both have their inputs taken from teh same ndes,= yet > are labelled to deliver I and Q. =20 No is not I/Q > The first pair of op-amp do correctly > take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then their outputs are= =20 > summed (differenced !) together.=20 > =20 Owing to the fact that it is not I/Q, that makes it possible to have the= =20 OL /2 or /4, the two exits are for two separate PC! the rejection of the= =20 frequency image is made by the selectivity of the filter of entry, the=20 IF is of 10kHz (spectrum lab) > As far as I can see, I and Q outputs > are the same signal. Also, there is very littel audio gain in the circu= it, > so the receiver as shown requires plenty of RF input to deliver enough= audio > for teh typical soundcard > > An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it > has considerable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep > stable. Better to use a MAR-3 at LF. > =20 The ERA-5 resists very well the strong signals, I am to 80 km of France=20 Inter (2MW on 164kHz) and 50km of HWU (200 KW on 22kHz) not of problems,= =20 (see my grabber) > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > =20 73 Jean-Pierre f1afj > > On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" > wrote: > > =20 >> Hi Scott , >> >> Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm >> >> It is my grabber on 2200m ! >> >> 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj >> >> >> Scott Tilley a =E9crit : >> >> Hi All >> =20 >>> I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well >>> documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? >>> >>> Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of >>> effort would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =20 > > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE012-5ea34b7bec9518f; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:18:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 565523800029F; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhjla-0007oA-1b for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhjlZ-0007o1-5E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:33 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhjlW-000060-Es for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:16:33 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 17 Feb 2010 13:16:22 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp039) with SMTP; 17 Feb 2010 14:16:22 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+cKbcRvQacVWawGDWms0TSQ4JDl7ceY/Fnz81bHl VKU4qSN0KLH3L8 Message-ID: <008901caafd3$6697b8e0$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:16:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.45000000000000001,0.45000000000000001 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4b7bec934846 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh yes,be careful about this precious piece of measuring equipment. But then,with < +/- 0,2dB you come out at an uncertainty within of around +/- 42W at 900W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity I don't use a Bird wattmeter. Don't trust any directional type of= meter for proper power=20 measurements. I have a 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated)= plus HP 432 power meter=20 (reasonably well calibrated) so I reckon power measurement is to with= in 0.2dB However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator,= which is a very nice=20 little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good idea Andy www.g4jnt.com On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul wrote: >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/= -50W, with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how= it must be 3:1 teh only=20 solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages.= Indeed, it does turn out=20 to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telepho= ne exchange' PSU (50V 25=20 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the= PSU current limited when=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it= current limited at a=20 higher value and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). = So it really was giving=20 more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a=20 switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 70= 0W 137kHz Tx,=20 http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enough said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz= where the transformers=20 began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / eff= iciency. So as a=20 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF= amp. BUT, with suitable=20 change of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5k= W on 137 or 500kHz - if a=20 suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentatio= n done, and any further=20 work can wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and= referring to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9= (Z) transfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the ab= ove design to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a= dc path from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connecte= d to the center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next= coax section (1:9 or=20 higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondar= y is nowhere connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W lim= it in linear mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more= power on the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for= losses of the low pass=20 filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial= RF heater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the= calculations said it=20 needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherw= ise known as a=20 bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with different= reference points to confuse=20 everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)= gives the answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two= bits of coax, which are=20 then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9= impedance). Add another=20 turn, so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearr= ange the grounding points=20 and there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfe= t PA has two separate,=20 non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA= practice, and being so=20 normal in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage -= it enables the designer to=20 float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even=20 to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allo= ws one end to be=20 completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced ope= ration is permitted with=20 the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:= 2 transformation by the=20 same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown= as a twisted pair rather=20 than coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved= of HF antenna=20 constructors. A natural progression that helps illustrate the concep= t of a loop of coax=20 giving one turn more than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisi= s ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%2= 0and%20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T -------------------------------------------------------------------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] namens=20 Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroup= s.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedat= um: 02/09/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/16/10 08:35:00 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2692 - Ausgabedatum: 02/1= 6/10 20:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh yes,be careful about this precious= piece of=20 measuring equipment.
But then,with < +/- 0,2dB you come= out at an=20 uncertainty
within of around +/- 42W at 900W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, February 17,= 2010 12:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity

I don't use a Bird wattmeter.  Don't trust any directional= type of=20 meter for proper power measurements. 
 
I have a  1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (c= alibrated)=20 plus HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated)  so I reck= on power=20 measurement is to within 0.2dB
 
However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenua= tor, which=20 is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good= idea=20
 
On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net>=20 wrote:
>and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V)= .
> So it really was giving more power out than it 'oug= ht=20 to'
 
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter= with a 1kW slug=20 would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW element +/-125W= .
Power master is a bit better with= +/-=20 30W.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February= 16, 2010 8:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA= matching=20 oddity

A follow up to this sage  
 
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about= how it=20 must be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.  So= I connected=20 up and measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:= 1=20 -   So   how could it deliver 1kW plus...
 
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink,  got out th= e=20 'telephone exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the= max it=20 would give.   Unfortunately the PSU current limited wh= en=20 supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to= 44V, it=20 current limited at a higher value and I got 950 Watts befor= e the PSU=20 gave up (off 44V).    So it really was giving mor= e power=20 out than it 'ought to'
 
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation elemen= t and in=20 fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. &n= bsp; I'd=20 used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.co= m/137tx.pdf  and forgot=20 it.   Enough said.
 
Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to= about 5MHz=20 where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz= where the=20 FETs lost gain / efficiency.   So as a 13.56MHz indust= rial unit=20 its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp.   BUT= , with=20 suitable change of output transformer, could probably be persuad= ed to give=20 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand. = That's=20 where it sits now.   Experimentation done, and any fur= ther work=20 can wait for other projects to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul= <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over= the transformer=20 of Andy's PA and referring= =20 to
I'm sorry to say that<= /DIV>
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)&n= bsp;sure that=20 it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points= =20 which exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers pro= vide no dc=20 isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side= .
There is no such dc= path=20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the= =20 braid of one coax end is connect= ed=20 to the center
conductor at= the start of=20 the same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1= :9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this= =20 design.The center of the secondary is nowhere=20 connected
with a braid.
 = ;
BTW there is no reason to wor= ry about the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdri= ven you get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133= W so you have=20 enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this= PA which was=20 used as industrial RF= heater=20
was designed to be=20 superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 = ;
 
 
----- Original Message -----=
From= : Andy Talbot= =20
Sent: Tuesday, Februa= ry 09, 2010=20 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE:= PA matching=20 oddity

BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it,=20 convincing.  Sorted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z rati= o)=20  just as the calculations said it needed to be,&nb= sp;and is=20 indeed, effectively, an auto transformer.  Otherwise kn= own as a=20 bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with= different=20 reference points to confuse everyone. Your se= cond=20 reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below)  gives= the=20 answer.  
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9=20 Ruthroff   UnUn .   With just = two bits=20 of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input= to give a=20 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).   Add another turn,= so three=20 windings are  bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearr= ange the=20 grounding points and there, in all its glory, is my=20 mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the= mosfet=20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pu= ll HF PA=20 practice, and being so normal in its concept, completel= y hides=20 hides a big real advantage - it enables the design= er to=20 float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanc= ed /=20 unbalanced operation, and even to provide DC isolation, = ; =20 Any conductor passing through the core allows one end to be= completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced= operation=20 is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the pape= r.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown= giving=20 1:2 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, an= d when the=20 transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax= , then=20 wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved= of HF=20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression= that=20 helps illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax= giving one=20 turn more than it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial= crisis ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strob= be <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
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Version:=20 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09= /10=20 08:35:00



Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr= =FCft - www.avg= .de=20
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Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
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------=_NextPart_000_0083_01CAAFDB.C66CFB10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.16]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b8667114b; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:03:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E1AD3380000F2; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcQO-0002wC-M3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcQO-0002w3-BX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.27]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcQM-00044t-No for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:36 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr7.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1PC2S65054987 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:02:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:02:16 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40104b86670a3485 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Andy, I measured the noise on 8800 Hz received on my mini-whip. Receiver: SPM-30, BW = 24 Hz, noise level = -115 dBm The same measurement with a PERSEUS SDR and a bandwidth of 20 Hz revealed a noise level of -122 dBm. PERSEUS has an input isolating transformer, which rolls off below 15 kHz, hence the lower measured noise level. It does not look too bad to me, really. 73, Roelof Bakker, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.73]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE073-5ebc4b68b0d865; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:10:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D7FDC380001DC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcRrW-00081N-DA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcRrV-00081E-TQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:49 +0000 Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.39]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcRrT-0002nm-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:49 +0000 Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o12N8eGt005789 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:08:40 -0500 Received: from G4gvw@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c15.567f5a4c (37253) for ; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (host-92-1-137-15.as43234.net [92.1.137.15]) by cia-ma07.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA073-91854b68b06b3e0; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:08:35 -0500 From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1265139692.4b687fec63808@imp.netikka.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:30 +0000 Message-Id: <1265152110.31873.19.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: G4gvw@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60494b68b0d45e1e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi All, Having past experience of negotiating with our national regulators, I am always respectful and appreciative of those who do this work as unpaid volunteers. A well-known colleague of ours in this group was for a number of years also a business partner of mine. His advice to me when I embarked on similar work from within our trade federation was that I should always assume that, no matter the subject, the automatic initial response from the 'sybil serpents' to any question or request would be 'NO', 'NON', 'Ce ne'st possible', 'Absolutely Not!', 'Over our dead bodies', 'We have no rational argument BUT WE ARE your Humble Servants and it IS in your best interests to refuse you permission to do something worthwhile and sensible! (even more so if you might profit from it)' As I suggested in my earlier email, drink a big toast to such seekers of the grail who do pit themselves against the serried ranks of 'Bro Crassy' who govern in spite of and in (default) cahoots with our learned and wise 'Polly Tickle Masters'! 'Twas ever thus On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 21:41 +0200, Paul-Henrik wrote: > Dear Mal. > > Send your mails on this subject to all "OFCOM's" in EU instead. One mail every > day to each country would give them something to think about. > > Personally I have spent countless hours writing up agendas, papers and e-mails > to our telecom authority to somehow get OH on 500kHz. Plus some unpaid offdays > from work to see the authority in person. Plus paid the tickets myself > everytime to get there (400km or so one-way). Get up early, home late. For two > years now, and in vein. Not giving up though. > > I'm sure the same process is taking place elsewhere in EU as well. People > working hard on their own time to convince their authorities it is time for a > change and that the current RR frequency table does not reflect the current > situation on/around 500kHz. > > The hams in EU are progressive but penetrating a brick wall with a toothpick > takes it's time. > > BR > > Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ > > > Quoting mal hamilton : > > > Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where are > > the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! > > I thought EU was progressive !! > > G3KEV > > > > > > > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.9]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA014-b4f24b7083bac0; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:35:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1FC2438002B63; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebD9-0001Tn-KW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebD9-0001Te-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: from smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebD6-0004PU-KT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:32:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 19537 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2010 21:31:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Importance; b=M9StaXhDVoeEVZSbrMpB+iuavJPJdXalYj509o7w0NTqUZJ4GLCy4w8CPFWg5AewSa38oA3xT89cY3qE4dstJ5Na1licnyKHz3BPGY+OQTtokCZoUxZ+RQxktL+kLRXb7TtUIFxaBfsIvFHW0NDFJ2YJS5xXHxaSmRVqxq4l8Gk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO aquarids) (ganymede444@86.141.127.43 with login) by smtp815.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2010 21:31:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: JSvqNSWswBBXc9Mk_Vd71RtGz2bViJtuZMADdmi78eLqBj_R7.fL X-YMail-OSG: XACRdxsVM1lztBkmrA8ZXjYflUw6nqhV686dLgEMdDlig8O8jq.x_.Y4k4Y5FtoQTwU7Ro1ILQtIPucmBCVTiWh67.AIiIHuK_BEsBGIDfUHNdfO.gj2Ss6IC.PlbI51RknlbRWgiBaxXHJ10pgdzWUEm1bYbxHoB1faxVfo.YIO3Qs606YH5cIU45.w7yCKz4vfkhrlt07SY_jIKAaP0INzx2b7pAGp7_Rw4Hv6jiUQ1eNs.vXKB0pYNuEqjnXeRErW1tbDTI1o1bINOemgo97DggWPcc4- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Dave G3WCB" To: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:32:18 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <7C9278565E364FB88EFB14EEC45B7916@Black> Importance: Normal DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60094b7083286780 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear LF, Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran closure Dear LF, this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with 5930. :-(( 73, Markus ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear=20 LF,
 
Here's=20 a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announc= ement of=20 the cessation of US LORAN services. 
 
 
LORAN,=20 OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK  :-(
 
73,=20 Dave G3WCB IO91RM
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Marku= s=20 Vester
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Loran=20 closure

Dear LF,
 
this evening, there were two good= traces=20 from Port Clarence here. Both ended around 19:50, so it lo= oks like=20 the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast=20 chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian= =20 participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as= 9960 has=20 not appeared with 5930.
 
 :-((
 
73, Markus
 
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA906.3097C0B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.14]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF034-8be44b8666de373; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7ECBD380000A3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcPc-0002uw-8G for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcPb-0002un-TL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:47 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcPZ-00044B-3N for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:01:47 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PC1fVK065163 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:01:42 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00350 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:06:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:06:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:01:43 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400e4b8666dd18d7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > >From a curve in an old 1981 copy of "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" , > at 10kHz (lowest value shown) atmospheric noise is given as being in the in > the range 155 to 175 dB kToB. This will have risen over the intervening > years due to the proliferation of industrial / domestic electrical > junk-noise, so if just we take the upper figure it shouldn't be outrageous > to start with. > > In a reference 1Hz bandwidth kTB = -174dBm, into a theoretical 0dBi > antenna. Therefore, you could expect to see about 0dBm, or about 1mW of > noise from such a beast Why? It is for 175 dB noise level, not for lowest 155 dB level. > > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area of a 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda = 33333m, G = 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G = 1, so A = > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise density > Nd = is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, == SQRT(Nd. 377) > = 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) For 155 dB it changes to 6.5 uV/m in 1 Hz. In 0.01 Hz (QRSS100) it yelds 0.65 uV/m. 2.5 uV/m is ~10 dB over noise. Right? Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.25]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC071-a97b4b6c49cf24b; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:39:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D56538000199; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:39:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRBy-0005V0-Eg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdRBy-0005Ur-4J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl ([194.134.41.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdRBw-0004OL-Go for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:38:02 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BDCA21B for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:51 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp02.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60194b6c49cd0fe4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 PA3EGO transmitting QRSS 10 at 502.0 KHz Victor From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.149]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b82d1efaf; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:50:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 743EF380000D4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjdL4-0003sd-Cq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:49:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjdL3-0003sU-F2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:49:01 +0000 Received: from mail-pw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjdL0-0004Pf-Kk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; 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Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <33183.39060.qm@web28103.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:48:50 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: af000206ed4ced7f Message-ID: <1f0624b91002221048g2584374fr2098db77fb00f059@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d257.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40954b82d1ed2c86 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete & Group, Perhaps something like this one :- http://www.vlf.it/matteobruna/ULF_Induction-Coil.htm & others at :- http://www.vlf.it 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 22 February 2010 18:19, M0FMT wrote: > Hi Group > > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 > kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 14= 00 > turns, > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolt= s. > Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > > > > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn * wrote: > > > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. > > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > > > > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rememb= er > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differ= ent > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > >> ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna". There are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > >> > >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> 73s > >> Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > > > >> > >> Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > >> would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like > >> bandwith or power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pete & Group,

Perhaps something like this one :-=

http://www.vlf.it/matteobruna/ULF_Induction-Coil.htm<= /div>

& others at :-

http://www.vlf.it

73, =A0G= ary - G4WGT.


On 22 February= 2010 18:19, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Group
=A0
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800 Watt audio amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making=A0a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red ho= t.
Any suggestions??
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James= Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subj= ect: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,= 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest= summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 Febru= ary 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required= in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let=
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the re= gulator at one time
maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests= the answer as I remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International= Treaty but we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and= no we will not be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
>= ; I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
wort= hwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>= ;
> Alan G3NYK
>
&g= t; --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_= Sch=E4fer <St= efan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Dat= e: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>=
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other co= untries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>= ;>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it= is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the proble= ms we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/lon= g antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels?= Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>= ;> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but= what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the= loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center?= That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tow= er, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some= trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
= >> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good= distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although= it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>><= br>>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
&= gt;> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
&= gt;>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such exper= iments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the= ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>>= that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan= /DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb= Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>> =A0 At this frequency, widely spa= ced,=A0grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the= best "antenna".=A0 There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for= example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> availa= ble on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham si= tes
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0.
>>
>= ;> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>>= aim with modern
>> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) avail= able
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous po= wer and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>= =A0 73s
>> =A0 Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>&= gt; <schaefer@hst.tu-d= armstadt.de>
>>
>> =A0 Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>><= br>>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
&= gt;> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would= be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configuration= s for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest= as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100= s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that= area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire= and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007= i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on al= l HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is= mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with ba= d ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x= 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>= > think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is you= r RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some= ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will nev= er be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________= ___________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von:= owner-rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>>= ; Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacks= heep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beac= oning on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>= ;
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA= and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed= that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've= got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need= one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitati= on of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in= german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t; Horst
>>
>> _____________________________________________________= ______
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>&g= t; =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>= ;>
>>
>>
>> =A0 htt= p://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
>>
>> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
&= gt;>
>> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL
>> G11= 088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>>= Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der= Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-6912= 0 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405=
>>
>> www.iup.un= i-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>



--000e0cd1a5b85580f2048034e231-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-da02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA022-86124b7485e835a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C292F38000220; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:34:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhbG-0002N1-S5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhbG-0002Ms-8o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhbF-0005kz-22 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:30 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100211223323.XEQQ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:23 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nfhb8-000771-B8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:23 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <183213.25085.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:33:16 -0000 Message-ID: <009c01caab6a$348cb480$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqraN5rjyqOUydRT8KB+AiutykA9QAAIYnA In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111422s1d7485d5x535bd82a5c43d6d6@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=BrDiTsk0AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=7h2TatIUnsZp5ybXmYMA:9 a=IJ0f6dKP6mRVPwRvMZgA:7 a=OzROfJA20SgovFRgscZb94XlztwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=-hJg1tCh9CgA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=oagfjQb4cmBHw3es:21 a=Eax3ppVNGzLDcANk:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=f9K-EWb39suho5xv2XcA:9 a=rzqrFR16CWeXROMu9IcA:7 a=lR8T-HLQLBUSi3UOkc4ZrGQo_lsA:4 a=HzF1FZKAul3JwqW6:21 a=RWMSwOkm_RDjkrS0:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: New NoV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b7485e65f92 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dominic Welcome to 500khz! It's a real blast and challenge. The guys are great and will give you all sorts of useful tips, as well as engaging in healthy debate about all matters LF/MF For me personally, my area of interest is 500 and latterly 136 on CW/RTTY and newer data modes like WSJT JT4A and WSPR. The latter has the potential to make the best of friends argue.but in a good natured way. (be warned WSPR is hugely addictive esp on 30M and 40M where 1W will get you to VK/ZL!!). WSJT-JT4A is also QSO mode similar to WSPR. WSPR is more beaconing, tho can be QSO as well and hence divides opinion far more effectively than religion/politics/football!! :-) Pete, Dennis, Chris, Roger, Alan, Lee and Jim (Moritz) have all given me loads of help as a newbie. Chris in particular has helped with hardware too! If I can be of any help (prob unlikely) then do drop me a note or call It may not be necessary (though it is far more desirable and more rewarding I agree) to build your own Tx. I use an IC706 mk2G modded for wide tx to generate 10W on 500. I used to use an IC735 but by being overzealous on what I thought it could do, I managed to smoke the PA.doh!! My own stupid fault!! :-( Even with 10W ERP and an aerial in an RF sapping birch tree I still can get out some 1200km on WSPR and have had CW QSOs with Finbar, Mal, Rog and Peter Dodd all in the 200km + zone. Again welcome to 500Khz. With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New NoV CW good, WSPR good too :-)) 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT wrote: Well done Dom Hope to hear you soon. CW Good ......... WSPR BAD!! 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Baines wrote: From: Dominic Baines Subject: LF: New NoV To: "rsgb lf group" Date: Thursday, 11 February, 2010, 15:02 Hi all, I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. Will focus on CW initially. 72 Dom M1KTA -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dominic=

 

Welcome to 500k= hz!   It’s a real blast and challenge.   The guys are great and will gi= ve you all sorts of useful tips, as well as engaging in healthy debate about= all matters LF/MF

 

For me personal= ly, my area of interest is 500 and latterly 136 on CW/RTTY and newer data modes like WSJT JT4A an= d WSPR.   The latter has the potential to make the best of fri= ends argue…but in a good natured way.   (be warned WSPR is= hugely addictive esp on 30M and 40M where 1W will get you to VK/ZL!!).

 

WSJT-JT4A is al= so QSO mode similar to WSPR.  WSPR is more beaconing, tho can be QSO as well and hence= divides opinion far more effectively than religion/politics/football!!  <= /span>J

 

Pete, Dennis,= Chris, Roger, Alan, Lee  and Jim (Moritz) have all given me loads of help as a newbie.  Chris= in particular has helped with hardware too!

 

If I can be of= any help (prob unlikely)  then do drop me a note or call

 

It may not be= necessary (though it is far more desirable and more rewarding I agree) to build your own Tx.  = ;I use an IC706 mk2G modded for wide tx to generate 10W on 500.  I used to= use an IC735 but by being overzealous on what I thought it could do, I manage= d to smoke the PA…doh!!  My own stupid fault!! L

 

Even with 10W= ERP and an aerial in an RF sapping birch tree I still can get out some 1200km on WSPR and have ha= d CW QSOs with Finbar, Mal, Rog and Peter Dodd all in the 200km + zone.

 

Again welcome= to 500Khz.

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:22
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: New No= V

 

CW good, WSPR= good too     :-))

73s Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 17:11, M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Well done Dom=

 =

Hope to hear you soon. CW Good&= nbsp; ......... WSPR BAD!! 

73 es GL petefmt



--- On Thu, 11/2/10, Dominic Bai= nes <dominic.baines@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:


From: Dominic Baines <dominic.baines@gmail.com>

Subject: LF: New NoV=


To: "rsgb lf group" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=

Date: Thursday, 11 February, 20= 10, 15:02

 

Hi all,

I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz.
Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso=
perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now.
Will focus on CW initially.

72

Dom
M1KTA

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01CAAB6A.348CB480-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.138]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE071-5eba4b88570d3c9; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DB8803800036F; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:19:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl9Rl-0001na-8J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl9Rk-0001nR-SW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:12 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl ([193.17.41.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl9Rh-0000v6-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:18:12 +0000 Received: from mailout1.go2.pl (unknown [10.0.0.105]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674255F001C for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from unknown (unknown [10.0.0.142]) by mailout1.go2.pl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from chello089076056060.chello.pl [89.76.56.60] by poczta.o2.pl with ESMTP id tdCSGU; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:54 +0100 Message-ID: <003801cab739$ebe0af30$0304a8c0@sss807e5xf9eei> From: "Marcin" To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:17:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-O2-Trust: 2, 62 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: CQ SP2KDS SO5AS SQ5BPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608a4b88570b2cd3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF Polish station worked now: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF RX 137,710kHz TX 7,123MHz sq5bpf grabber: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ 73! Marcin SQ2BXI ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF
Polish station worked now:
SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz= =20 +-QRM)
SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM)
SQ5BPF R= X=20 137,710kHz TX 7,123MHz
sq5bpf   grabber:
73! Marcin SQ2BXI
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CAB742.4C207300-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD014-8b774b8393dc29b; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:37:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 27EA538000085; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:37:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqG4-0007mK-Ox for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqG4-0007mB-9g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqG2-0000by-Gm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:36:44 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1N8adgj016556 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:36:40 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:36:40 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:33:34 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B10@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0GIn7qOGjdrJCSJCNmlH9LZZtUQABJI1+ABFxtog= References: <260427.39843.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B0C@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.82419 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2" Subject: WG: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b8393db1c85 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete,=20 =20 Yesterday in the night or today in the morning i had another idea. The mai= l wasn't reflected, perhaps too much data volume (sri, have forgotten to= delete the old mails hanging on) =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 01:35 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Pete,=20 =20 A last idea for today (PC was already shut down but i cannot slep now ;-)= ): =20 The very simpelst, maybe not the worst, way to try it on VLF is using your= inv L antenna as a real vertical loop. =20 That means you could try to take a wire and connect it to the end of your= L, place it on the ground back to the feed point. Then, all you need is= a C, probably some 10 =B5F, to compensate the L of the wire at that frequ= ency. The current will be limited just by the resistance of the antenna wi= re, and the power of course. There will be no loading coil, so you reduce= much work!=20 =20 Perhaps the overall resistance will even be in the region of 4 Ohm, so you= do not even need a transformation! Just connect the ground wire to the gr= ound of your amplifier and the top wire of the antenna in series with the= C to the AF output and adjust C for maximum antenna current (e.g. measure= d by a 0,1 Ohm shunt resistor and an oscilloscope). That could be done in= 1...3 hours of work :-) =20 If your signal will be received in 6,5km, you could tell us the difference= to the before mentioned ways of matching. And: Since Jacek has reached 75= 0m with 2W TX power and a 4m*14m loop, you could be successful with 100W= and a vertical loop with more area and QRSS... =20 GL!! Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,
 
Yesterday in the night or = today in the morning i had another idea. The mail wasn't reflected, perhap= s too much data volume (sri, have forgotten to delete the old mails hangin= g on)
 
73, Stefan/DK7FC

Von: Stefan Sch=E4fer
Gesendet:<= /B> Di 23.02.2010 01:35
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
B= etreff: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Pete,
 
A last idea for today (PC was= already shut down but i cannot slep now ;-) ):
 
The very simpelst, maybe not th= e worst, way to try it on VLF is using your inv L antenna as a real= vertical loop.
 
That means you could try to tak= e a wire and connect it to the end of your L, place it on the ground back= to the feed point. Then, all you need is a C, probably some 10 =B5F, to= compensate the L of the wire at that frequency. The current will be limit= ed just by the resistance of the antenna wire, and the power of course. Th= ere will be no loading coil, so you reduce much work!
 
Perhaps the overall resistance= will even be in the region of 4 Ohm, so you do not even need a transforma= tion! Just connect the ground wire to the ground of your amplifier and the= top wire of the antenna in series with the C to the AF output and adjust= C for maximum antenna current (e.g. measured by a 0,1 Ohm shunt resistor= and an oscilloscope). That could be done in 1...3 hours of work :-)
 
If your signal will be received= in 6,5km, you could tell us the difference to the before mentioned ways= of matching. And: Since Jacek has reached 750m with 2W TX power and a 4m*= 14m loop, you could be successful with 100W and a vertical loop with more= area and QRSS...
 
GL!! Stefan/DK7FC
<= /DIV>
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB463.523C91F2-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.142]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB022-a1904b6e049131; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:08:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5E75038000153; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:08:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndugc-0006rf-0v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndugb-0006rW-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:37 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdugZ-0007pq-Kn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:07:37 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E889D7000089 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DC65D700008B for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.41.48]) by mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5F1AC7000089 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:07:27 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100207000727389.5F1AC7000089@mwinf3601.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:07:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100206-2, 06/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_HAS_SPACES=0.651,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_HAS_SPACES,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408e4b6e04905f49 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks to all who called the station to night ..=20 Closed round 22-30 hrs=20 G ..=20 From: Graham=20 Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:27 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566=20 =20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TA= KE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB=20 GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND=20 WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 = TILL > LATER =20 ALSO RX ON 3566 CW =20 REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME =20 TNX - G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks to  all  who = called=20 the  station to  night ..
 
Closed round  22-30 hrs <= /DIV>
 
G ..
 

From: Graham
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:27 PM
Subject: LF: Fw: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566
=

 
 
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; 1600=20 HRS    ALSO   X BAND  3566  = RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<  TO  DAY SAT= 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR   502.000  CW&n= bsp; =20 TX/RX  500  ALSO   RX 3566 +/-  QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE  OPERATIONAL  = FROM=20 ROUND   1600 HRS GMT  >  1800  ... 1900&nb= sp; =20 TILL > LATER 
ALSO   RX ON 3566  CW&= nbsp; =20
 
REPORTS  / CALLS  WELCOME&n= bsp; =20
 
TNX - G ..




------=_NextPart_000_0025_01CAA789.82058B40-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.30]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b82feca232; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 850F138000096; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgKm-0005QO-PM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgKm-0005QF-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgKk-0005uy-2b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:00:56 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1MM1Yef006077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1MM1Y8M006074 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:01:34 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.506 () AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Poland on LF activity - Friday 20100226 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601e4b82fec65938 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello all! The Polish Amateur Radio Union has a new "Poland on Long Wave - 136 kHz Award", which is the second LF award avaliable in Europe. Rules are avaliable at: http://awards.pzk.org.pl/html/136_PL.htm On Friday 26 February 2010 there will be 3 stations active: SO5AS 137,700kHz (crosband 3,570MHz +-QRM) SP2KDS 137,705kHz (crosband 3,575MHz +-QRM) SQ5BPF receiving 137,710kHz transmiting 7,123kHz +-QRM Activity will start from abt. 20:00 UTC. Also I will have my LF grabber active all week 24h/day for propagation tests: http://acid.ch.pw.edu.pl/~sq5bpf/grabber/ Watch the amplitude scale - if your signal peaks >20dB above noise (the FFT bin width is 0.5Hz), we can try a normal CW QSO. VY 73 and hope to see (and hear!) you on LF! Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE074-5ebd4b6d668213a; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:54:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5548838000064; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 07:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdkA6-0004Xu-Uw for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdkA6-0004Xk-AI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdkA4-0003XU-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:22 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o16CrE92059038 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:53:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:53:11 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6d66811f01 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't work well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.96]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD032-86314b6d9af23d5; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:38:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BBC0738000112; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndne8-00057U-Tn for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndne8-00057L-Eh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndne6-0005CB-Kw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:36 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so1744789pzk.16 for ; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:36:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/GfLEd76fdUdif3KcnGCZqxs3WRtEIt/g3/UTUpffHk=; b=OAOkee74DByWEkMiNi7UvTIRs4IZjwydwZBfhSRX/iixaR18rYYTxbmVljYdzhdDA3 rG406PQFuubTYmfMbRXOVc25JTKVDFyMfaxilXklkyvnAVWVVHey3zUsxeSyIHbLE1kM qf/7c99TnibiTruoU0a5KQqqgEme2jhcLRftc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=hgjktBTtObUThu/R7DS0bQnSnLCI12vhWrv4cqTjn1Xu3cbnZmn9KFJHLsL7GmL8b5 DfnjwntbYcPozjPcsikQPthB+cs0rAaDcyyE1Oa1jZaEwaq+xhUHc6jDAn+tJ0iQStil xXT09A7AhbMaRGdFHqGSV6CgtjN/RZIHFZ1jU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.188.41 with SMTP id q41mr2948891rvp.119.1265474185999; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:36:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:36:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 44227e55e156bf38 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002060836w75df96d0u23daf24218533ddf@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: Fwd: GB4FPR 502.000 1600 HRS 3566 RX > TO DAY SAT 6 FEB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b84b6d9af03905 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 GB4FPR 502.000 CW 1600 HRS ALSO X BAND 3566 RX >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<< TO DAY SAT 6 FEB GB4FPR 502.000 CW TX/RX 500 ALSO RX 3566 +/- QRM X BAND WILL BE OPERATIONAL FROM ROUND 1600 HRS GMT > 1800 ... 1900 TILL > LATER ALSO RX ON 3566 CW REPORTS / CALLS WELCOME TNX - G .. --000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0
GB4FPR=A0=A0 502.000=A0 CW=A0 1600=20 HRS=A0=A0=A0 ALSO=A0=A0 X BAND=A0 3566=A0=A0 RX=20 >>>> PLS TAKE A LOOK <<<=A0 TO=A0 DAY SAT 6 FEB=20
GB4FPR=A0=A0 502.000=A0 CW=A0=A0=20 TX/RX=A0 500=A0 ALSO=A0=A0 RX 3566 +/-=A0 QRM X BAND=20
WILL BE=A0 OPERATIONAL=A0=A0 FROM=20 ROUND=A0=A0 1600 HRS GMT=A0 >=A0 1800=A0 ... 1900=A0=A0=20 TILL > LATER=A0
ALSO=A0=A0 RX ON 3566=A0 CW=A0=A0=20
=A0
REPORTS=A0 / CALLS=A0 WELCOME=A0=A0= =20
=A0
TNX - G ..

--000e0cd17924543738047ef12b50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.17]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC021-a8d34b6ede713cc; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0E2FB3800018A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9CE-0002pT-Sm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9CE-0002pK-Gi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from mx76.mail.ru ([94.100.176.91]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne9CB-0001lV-NN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=13908 helo=EFREMOV) by mx76.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ne9C4-0009Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:37:04 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:35:39 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: Re: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41114b6ede6e5a76 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Victor, LF Victor, thanks for the report! My captures: OE5ODL OE3GHB and RA3YO trace VOINA UA4WPF UA9CS PA3CPM 73 Andrey > Lots of stations this night: > NA > WPF > GHB > Y > ODL > AGC > > All captured with an active whip 7m high on a steel pole,and a homebrew > (analog) rx > > 73 > > Victor > > PA3FNY > ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CAA824.58883150 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="odl.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="odl.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjowNyAxODoyMToxNQAFAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAANjg3AAKgBAABAAAAgAAAAAOgBAABAAAAEwAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAA AAACAAEAAgAEAAAAUjk4AAIABwAEAAAAMDEwMAAAAAAAAAAA/8AAEQgAEwCAAwEhAAIRAQMR Af/bAIQABAMDAwMCBAMDAwUEBAUGCwcGBgYGDQkKCAsQDhEQEA4PDxIUGRUSExgTDw8WHhYY GhscHRwRFR8iHxwhGRwcGwEGBwcJCAkTCgoTKBoWGigoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgo 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([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkhNi-00075v-N5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:20:13 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so4751888bwz.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:20:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=d/vf4k6GJvnlT8eACFjRz7A2APq9pKv2SGzAQc2k9pY=; b=QAvqGcHjXPkbrN2ubfIyS/OHnWFQYuxEI577d6S45HBbhjHPML+f3kONya2Scay2zq wTo13qvdR7ilRV2sttm+to7aXNsIlVpJ8TL2gGM86fvwQk3FTIPMFYY9J060IINVGY7i vBOh2I/ssr7kvH4lis8JijBSD3g4tL5AUIDAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Gz4DVdaE5wNl4URecdWNOId9A3jmLpweaJcRV9csNIQfMJbv+QAaxbgc+1GVtnC9Dm T2kQsgT9vOXrm2aJIdEwr+f3+xKG1C6CLwV6h26zwMNe8PBjSdSGqSoNwAoMPIBDJLTU 6RhE0dAuo3htVJ0Qq3bkkAPvyOsxffiZrgCIw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.33.210 with SMTP id i18mr817458bkd.119.1267118404245; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:20:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:19:58 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,TVD_FW_GRAPHIC_ID3=2 Subject: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=00032555971e5f9c4b04806ffe50 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55501 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d296.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b86b19d6656 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555971e5f9c4b04806ffe50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f --00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rod Wilkinson Date: 25 February 2010 15:20 Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? To: Roger Lapthorn Hello Roger, Well, quicker than I thought we=92d be I have some info for you regarding= the possibility of operating on 9kHz. Apparently Ofcoms=92 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006= by Colin Thomas G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothing came of it on that occasion. That has though allowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz. They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is= no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existing licensee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on 501-504kHz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basis to other active facilities and systems using that part= of the spectrum. We will need to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached during the original enquires to confirm that they remain conten= t with the agreed arrangements. All this, will of course, need to be done prior to the NoV being granted. So it does seem a possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an application from for a Special Research Permit availabl= e at: www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/applications/ofw= 306.pdf Please provide as much detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropriate colleagues. I hope that helps. Vy 73 Rod *Rod Wilkinson* OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk *Ofcom* Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk *Have you changed** **your address recently?** * *Update your details** **on the** **Ofcom **Amateur and Ships** Licensing= ** Service** * * * *http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/** * * * *[image: Ofcom - Office of Communications]* *From:* Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] *Sent:* 23 February 2010 10:33 AM *To:* Rod Wilkinson *Subject:* Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Many thanks Rod. I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson wrot= e: Hello Roger, Many thanks for your very interesting mail. To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating below 9kHz= I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=92 spectrum management team and possi= bly the lawyers too. So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to you as soo= n as possible. But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather than days. Vy 73 Rod PS sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz! *Rod Wilkinson* OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio 020 7783 4488 (direct line) Rod.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk *Ofcom* Riverside House 2a Southwark Bridge Road London SE1 9HA 020 7981 3000 www.ofcom.org.uk *Have you changed** **your address recently?** * *Update your details** **on the** **Ofcom **Amateur and Ships** Licensing= ** Service** * * * *http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/** * * * *[image: Ofcom - Office of Communications]* *From:* Roger Lapthorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] *Sent:* 22 February 2010 10:43 PM *To:* Rod Wilkinson *Subject:* Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Dear Rod, On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last few days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago (arou= nd 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and G9BIB)= for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications magazi= ne in 1975. It's a fascinating part of the spectrum to explore. In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amateur= s operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am awar= e, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whistler reception, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (although I believe this has now been replaced by oth= er methods) and some slow data rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interference threat to any of these. At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur would, in a traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field radiation immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intents and purposes, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so called "earth mode") or induction and not by radiation in a true radio sense. Attenuation rates are therefore much higher and potential range ver= y limited. I think some in the amateur radio community are interested in experimenting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range= at these basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRSS= 60 or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modulati= on modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at bes= t rather than hundreds of kilometres). So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at all?= If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-by-case basis as at 500kHz? Kind regards Roger Lapthorn G3XBM (500kHz NoV holder) --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 **************************************************************************= **************************************** For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system. This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments at your own risk. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated otherwise. **************************************************************************= **************************************** ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555971e5f9c4504806ffe4f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received= today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk> Date: 25 February 2010 15:20
Subject: RE: Special Permits for Amateur= Radio Operation below 9kHz?
To: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>


Hello Roger,

Well, quicker than= I thought we=92d be I have some info for you regarding the possibility of= operating on 9kHz.

Apparently Ofcoms= =92 Spectrum Management Team were approached back in 2006 by Colin Thomas= G3PSM in his role as RSGB Spectrum Director. We understood at that time= there was some interest in 9kHz, especially from Andy Talbot, G4JNT. However nothin= g came of it on that occasion.

That has though al= lowed a head start this time and my colleagues in the Spectrum Team see no= reason why Amateur operation/experimentation can not take place on 9kHz.= They state that ITU Radio Regs indicat= e that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the= UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for= wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. This would be in the form of a Notice of Variation for an existing licens= ee and will be awarded much on the same lines as for operating on 501-504k= Hz. Also any operation will be subject to a non interference basis to other= active facilities and systems using that part of the spectrum. We will ne= ed to revisit the likes of the Met Office who were approached during the= original enquires to confirm that they remain content with the agreed arrangements.=A0 All this, will of course,= need to be done prior to the NoV being granted.

So it does seem a= possibility and if you and any others wish to proceed please complete an= application from for a Special Research Permit available at:

www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/class= es/amateur/applications/ofw306.pdf

Please provide as= much detail as possible and send it to me and I will liaise with appropri= ate colleagues.

I hope that helps.=

Vy 73

Rod

Ro= d Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Ro= d.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

=A0

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org.uk<= /span>

=A0<= /span>

Have you changed yo= ur address recently?

Update your details on= the Of= com Am= ateur and Ships= Licensing S= ervice

=A0=

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/

=A0=

=A0

=A0

=A0=A0

= From: Roger Lap= thorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 February 2010 10:33 AM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Re: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz= ?

=A0

Many thanks Rod.
I fully understand, and would expect, some delay in any response from OFCO= M regarding operation below 9kHz.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 23 February 2010 08:23, Rod Wilkinson <Rod.Wilkinson@of= com.org.uk> wrote:

Hello Roger,

=A0

Many thanks for your very interesting mail.

=A0

To ensure that I obtain the correct answer regarding operating bel= ow 9kHz I will need to take advice from Ofcoms=92 spectrum management team and possibly the lawyers too.

=A0

So please accept this as a holding reply and I will get back to yo= u as soon as possible. =A0But be aware please that it may run into weeks rather than days.

=A0

Vy 73

=A0

Rod

PS =A0sincere congratulations on exceed the 1000km mark on 500kHz!=

=A0

Ro= d Wilkinson

OLC Senior Associate, Amateur Radio

020 7783 4488 (direct line)

Ro= d.wilkinson@ofcom.org.uk

=A0

Riverside House

2a Southwark Bridge Road

London SE1 9HA

020 7981 3000

www.ofcom.org.uk<= /span>

=A0<= /span>

Have you changed yo= ur address recently?

Update your details on= the Of= com Licensing S= ervice

=A0=

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/licensing/olc/

=A0=

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

= From: Roger Lap= thorn [mailto:rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 February 2010 10:43 PM
To: Rod Wilkinson
Subject: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

=A0

Dear Rod,

On the RSGB's LF reflector, there has been some discussion in the last= few days about experimentation at frequencies below 9kHz. Many years ago= (around 1970) I held a couple of Test and Development licences (G9BGU and= G9BIB) for such experiments and I wrote up the results in Radio Communications magazine in 1975. It's a fasci= nating part of the spectrum to explore.

In some countries the approval authorities have simply said that below 9kH= z is not allocated by the ITU and therefore they have no issues with amate= urs operating experimentally in this part of the spectrum. As far as I am= aware, the only use for frequencies below 9kHz is for sferic monitoring, VLF emissions research (whistler rec= eption, etc), slow data rate signalling to submerged submarines (although= I believe this has now been replaced by other methods) and some slow data= rate FSK modulation of the mains power grid system. I cannot imagine amateur operation being a credible interfer= ence threat to any of these.

At such frequencies, any "antenna" erected by a radio amateur wo= uld, in a traditional sense, would be incredibly inefficient and far field= radiation immeasurably low. Therefore communication would, for all intent= s and purposes, only be possible by conduction currents through earth or sea (so called "earth mode") or induc= tion and not by radiation in a true radio sense. Attenuation rates are the= refore much higher and potential range very limited. I think some in the= amateur radio community are interested in experimenting with very weak signal modes to "push the envelope" on range at= these basement frequencies. There is no doubt that modes like QRSS30, QRS= S60 or WSPR would allow greater ranges to be spanned than traditional modu= lation modes like normal speed CW, albeit not that far even so (kilometres at best rather than hundreds of kilometres).=

So, I wonder what OFCOM's view would be. Would a permit be needed at= all? If yes, would OFCOM issue Special Research Permits (NoVs) on a case-= by-case basis as at 500kHz?=A0

Kind regards

Roger Lapthorn=A0 G3XBM=A0 (500kHz NoV holder)

--
http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088


****************************= **************************************************************************= ************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise.
**************************************************************************= ****************************************

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088


***************************= **************************************************************************= *************
For more information visit www.ofcom.org.uk

This email (and any attachments) is confidential and intended for the use= of the addressee only.

If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of= the message and delete it from your system.

This email has been scanned for viruses. However, you open any attachments= at your own risk.

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and= do not represent the views or opinions of Ofcom unless expressly stated= otherwise.
**************************************************************************= ****************************************
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
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http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
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Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:24:52 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601a4b88203e62ad X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Yet another comment. Today a have find some web page (www-star.stanford.edu/~vlf/south_pole/south%20pole.htm) where presented waterpole picture with some signal E ~ 4uV/m near 10kHz. It is dificult to estimate FFT-bandwith with the picture. But full screen is only few seconds. Signals are nice detectable. If this is right then much weaker signal to be detectable in long mode. On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, James Moritz wrote: > > Dear Markus, LF Group, > > I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was > about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz > > One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effective > height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF calibration > point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring sessions on > 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna works out > consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due to > increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequencies. > H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected. Of > course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blown out of > the water... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.80]) by air-me07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME073-8bba4b7e22ff32e; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:34:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C807380000F9; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:34:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiLUG-0004I6-W4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiLUG-0004Hx-5b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from msgmmp-3.gci.net ([209.165.130.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiLUD-0005Q2-BC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:33:12 +0000 Received: from D2FCLG81 ([66.58.188.44]) by msgmmp-1.gci.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.03 (built Jun 27 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0KY2002F2Q2R2B90@msgmmp-1.gci.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:52 -0900 (AKST) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:55 -0900 From: Roger Brown To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: <83BF80C1876F4B58AE64B25CA9C3E840@D2FCLG81> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Loran A and C Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60504b7e22fd2019 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Laurence, I'll be listening for you on 506 this evening Roger KL7Q BP51HO ----- Original Message ----- From: Laurence KL1X To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: LF: Loran A and C Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK = Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening but low power as Im playing with the matching - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. --Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Laurence,
 
I'll be listening for you on 506 this evening
 
Roger KL7Q
BP51HO
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:42 PM
Subject: LF: Loran A and C

 
Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in Wasilla AK =  Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening but low power as Im playing with the matching -

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--Boundary_(ID_wW/OeKU0aKPh+Tx6e+HGVQ)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.25]) by air-dc09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC092-862d4b838d49377; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:09:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C629C380000E9; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjpoQ-0007eV-79 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjpoP-0007eM-KJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:09 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjpoM-0000QK-TM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:09 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1N880vE010693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:08:00 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:07:59 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:07:58 +0000 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Thread-Index: Acq0X1BXicQuTKkDTQqpXSAdQVpACw== Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60194b838d471c31 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Jean-Louis and others, On 2010 Feb 22, at 11:59, wrote: > Hi Rik > =20 > In a french book called "Poste 85" describing the beginning of the elect= ronics era during WW1 (telephone, radio, gonio, etc) , it is said that it= was possible to listen to enemy telephone conversations by putting some= rods in the ground and connecting them to a 3 triodes amplifier (the retu= rn audio ground current of the wire telephones were strong enough to allow= conversations spying)=20 If this interests you, there's another book on the same subject: Listening= In, by Ernest H. Hinrichs, 148 pp., pub. White Mane Books, Shippensburg,= PA, USA (1996). Hinrichs was a US national of German extraction, fluent in German, and ser= ved with the US Army in WWI intercepting German front-line communications.= His work was with ground current communications, trying to pick up stray= signals from German field telephones. The book describes his WWI experien= ces and gives a reasonable amount of technical detail of the equipment.=20 I seem to recall an assessment of it from the electronics point of view in= the Cave Radio and Electronics Group Journal, but I forget when. I think= John F5VLF wrote it; if you're interested, you could ask him. There are over a dozen copies on AbeBooks, with prices starting at under= EUR 4. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.144]) by air-mb04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB044-a2c34b787dcc10b; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:48:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 411DF38000212; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgnF4-0001zb-23 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgnF3-0001zS-I3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:05 +0000 Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgnF2-0005xr-Az for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:47:05 +0000 Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1EMkjAx018233 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:45 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.bec.4f133b7d (43997) for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (g229081210.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.81.210]) by cia-dd06.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD066-abdd4b787d4b390; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:46:37 -0500 Message-ID: <022B79181CFC4A0EB7964FE9BA4F6C9F@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:46:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60904b787dca1ba5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Henny, you seem to be doing a great job receiving on 500 kHz, while transmitt= ing a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering whether you are just listen= ing during TX breaks, or have special filtering in place to avoid rece= iver overloading and suppress transmitter noise? Either way, well don= e! Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: henny van elst=20 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM To: blacksheep=20 Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden ver= zonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virus= sen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe.= Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt wete= n hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Henny,
 
you seem to be doing a great job = ;receiving on=20 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering&nbs= p;whether=20 you are just listening during TX breaks, or have special fil= tering in=20 place to avoid receiver overloading and suppress  transmitte= r=20 noise? Either way, well done!<= /FONT>
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg

Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu me= t het volgende=20 bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC 14-02.jpg

Opme= rking:=20 Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het ver= zenden of=20 ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de=20 beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen= worden=20 afgehandeld. ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01CAADCF.F18F5B20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01CAADCF.F18F5B20 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="pa3cpm_100214_0342.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pa3cpm_100214_0342.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CAAeAQ4DAREAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQCBQYBAAcI/8QANhAAAgEC BQIEBAUDBAMAAAAAAQIDBBEABRIhMRNRBiJBYRRxgZEjMkKx8BUkoQdS0eE0ksL/xAAaAQAC AwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAECBQAG/8QANxEAAQIEBAQFAwQBBAMBAAAAAQIRAAMhMQQSQVFh cYHwBRMikaGxweEGFDLRQjNSgvEkYnKy/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD89ZHQxVuc5Zl9RXpQ0lZV RwTVU2kpEGZQzncXVb3O4G3OBoq5GkXbKrNlt8x9IqvBMcdJXyTeFfFfh5IaZ5EzHM6tTBGy 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11 Feb 2010 18:19:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A6E5338000204; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiIx-0002us-3I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiIw-0002uj-Oo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:38 +0000 Received: from smtp821.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.250]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiIu-00066d-4W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 52547 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2010 23:18:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=XU1kWf/yb0aMcCGRXvsYu2n1l2zaA8q7ngo8B1z8vnKlGfV0lTXumR+/mk2tIyO52xj7/I+bWF2VtZqvPqufS4RUAB+5yK1xaieOrPzpf86SaR66SlAqagWDE5+VBrxmPwmx0MzsaBtd6+rulynh9ZFi+AFV27EfCanJSsx1TyY= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp821.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2010 23:18:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: ALMiB4YVM1mXL.8ircrG3kAvGrd6Zixk85LR3mwFTP85saFMxzJX7sZ37GQqmlfGCSu_.hCAg3a4x6kJgqzk3_Gn6GjXthGa3eIczifAAG8.F8mh82SM3UCEfcUxwedgDJf6AVgz.WiElT6A.e4o.mGGqMej.IjLU0u1VNqSh3YuF3QDx8KRkNbY.onnx5iGdFFcj4WhFEib52eVnYF7y0MauoFRiQYKqQfGxbIuZAKPamNgqtyZu7H7Nb5hu5v5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> In-Reply-To: <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:18:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405d4b749089412a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear LF group, Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now, as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in this mode ;-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.219]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6ee4f832d; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:06:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07375380003A3; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:06:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9d6-0002xB-2R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:05:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne9d5-0002x2-Nx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:04:59 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne9d3-00021l-Bh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:04:59 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXH006YOBC1DJ@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:04:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:04:42 +0100 From: henny van elst To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RN3AGC Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60db4b6ee4f61e93 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Adrey,tnx for the nice capture. the problem here is rec.and transmit on the same time,hi, best 73s henny cpm........... ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: LF: Re: 137 > Hello Victor, LF > > Victor, thanks for the report! > My captures: > OE5ODL > OE3GHB and RA3YO > trace VOINA > UA4WPF > UA9CS > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey > > > >> Lots of stations this night: >> NA >> WPF >> GHB >> Y >> ODL >> AGC >> >> All captured with an active whip 7m high on a steel pole,and a homebrew >> (analog) rx >> >> 73 >> >> Victor >> >> PA3FNY >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 02/06/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b6b16271eb; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:47:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4EFED3801E4D4; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6Jj-0005DG-CJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nd6Jj-0005D7-1k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from smtp06.online.nl ([194.134.42.51]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nd6Jh-000322-Ed for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:20:39 +0000 Received: from smtp06.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp06.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9696196010 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp06.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:31 +0100 (CET) From: To: "blacksheep" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:20:30 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp06.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b6b105f6c11 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hearing PA0LCE with tjoep and PA3EGO QRSS3, 73 Victor PA3FNY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b69d80921e; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B471B38000041; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:09:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclWf-00069m-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclWf-00069d-FM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: from smtp828.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.163]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NclWd-0002WR-Lx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 73111 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2010 20:08:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=f06FbCG0DwhZiXtWvvo5+yA91NIInp9TWeswFePTXwIyjWlQhu20J/3PH/dMyYMO65wLLr9FYV03PMJ4OnmaEIG1dCZn3WlLbuwBWv/KCdnq752UvW1oY4DEUNWljc+AAbTOhyjszp+mzwmaqHr+kYGAnJt0V1aPzQsIf9tAWMs= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp828.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2010 20:08:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: dFgbEnIVM1l5etW0UE0uwkH6lyAujbYVcgCBte3v3nOyCPuSADsReH.hRAXvXuWDoTZ0bs0gJ08XlEpZsVxl5rrDlPS5KySvpLfqk05ltFaMl1xNvrQtyyy.DuF1qNje7GteQUe28fTWZpiZkcbHgbpWnaxX3CUYrjQVznV0SQX1hzF1GOPblS9.Q8Pd0l3QiKpbcPL8UIpCo3xpbjAzIsYnSDS9LZPOX4WdcNJzyNfcsCCd4QPHGzwwxwdAiHNnPmTPKyd.63RLY8p3qLLvQ0e0E6C6yp2kIBaQqFC9jUUnkAbWwACdGVOug21RPKJIz5g- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: From: "James Moritz" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:08:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b69d8052e8f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Stefan, LF Group, DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:19 PM Subject: LF: test signal wanted Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW= on=20 137.7?=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF072-8bf24b819f352cb; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:01:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9A6CF380000A2; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjIuZ-0007Zq-Vd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjIuZ-0007Zh-EA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjIuX-0004xF-7l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.194]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1LL02kJ020043 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:00:02 -0500 Received: from KKneu (f052059229.adsl.alicedsl.de [78.52.59.229]) by mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 82CD9E0000B8 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: "KKorn" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:59:59 +0100 Message-ID: <487F32CC299E449E9BF6A587237903B3@KKneu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B03@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 000000003757D0230826FB4CB42CCD71FD3FDF1584682600 Importance: Normal x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c24b819ed131b6 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55330 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b819f337dd6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan keine Lizenz unter 9kHz n=F6tig. =20 73 de Klaus DJ6LB ~~~ No trees were killed in the sending of this message, ~~~ ~~~ but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced ~~~= =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAB341.376FCB40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; 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Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:38:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ABB33380000AF; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NidLS-0007xr-4u for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NidLR-0007xi-P0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:17 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NidLP-000443-1p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:17 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Feb 2010 00:37:09 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db50c59.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.12.89] by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 20 Feb 2010 01:37:09 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+epAYm2BmevAABvSA17arH/8LLa9vSOMwjO9xYNw kSqLS78NsJJdDv Message-ID: <009301cab1c4$d5c1ba70$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: References: <555f3d76.1c1b798e.4b7f26a8.3ebdd@go2.pl Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:37:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100219-0, 19.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b7f2f093f03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thanks for 599 dear Marcin. This was my first X band QSO with longwave, I did. Many thanks. The sifgnal was QSBing between very good and nothing! Please QSL via bureau. My QSL is sure. 73 Veit DL7ET ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org" Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:02 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Hello Veit I receiving 3,568MHz CW/ transmiting 137,705kHz QRSS. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI > I Have your signal on screen with 'O' > can we make crossband qso 136 / 3.5mhz? > > Veit DL7ET From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.88]) by air-da06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA062-86164b6f19da367; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:51:54 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4FFB03800017A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD9x-0003hm-8r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD9w-0003hd-T0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:08 +0000 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeD9u-0003QY-FD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:51:08 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArUEAPunbktZ8f0c/2dsb2JhbACBa405xXeEVAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,423,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="290902097" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.253.28]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 07 Feb 2010 19:50:37 +0000 Message-ID: <004601caa82e$d058e850$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:50:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: G3KEV_OZ8NJ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60584b6f19d95499 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Lubos for the report from OK2 and sig picture. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:14 PM Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ Hello LF! There are nice signals on 600m band. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx Lubos for the report from OK2 and sig=20 picture.
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 7:14=20 PM
Subject: LF: G3KEV_OZ8NJ

Hello LF!
There are nice signals on 600m band.
=
Lubos,=20 OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01CAA82E.CF719590-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-b5134b6e9896380; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:40:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BFE138000156; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4Xx-0001fD-Vl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4Xx-0001f4-Jv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4Xu-0008HS-Vm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:21 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17AdDr8012951 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:39:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:39:09 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEE@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: AW: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6e989444fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Stefan, > A receiving loop will give the best signal i assume, but it is not very > easy to handle if one is always /p. There is floating a lot of untested lore around, regarding reception antennas. When I started listening at LF 8 years ago, I was convinced that loops were the way to go. I spent a whole winter season to get them to work, but failed due to local noise pick up. I decided that it was impossible to get proper results in a city location and almost gave up. As a last resort and just for the fun of it, I build an active whip and much to my surprise it worked. At the time I have made a lot of tests comparing active whips and loops on a field location. They were aligned for the same output on a local NDB on 399.5 kHz. The results were that I could not find any difference between the loop and the whip, except the directive properties of the loop. The poor results of the loop at home were due to the fact that the house acts as a faraday cage for the electric field. So local noise in the electric field is attenuated, whilst local noise in the magnetic field is not. At 400 kHz the attenuation was 30 dB. In a rf-quiet location both antenna types perform equally well. The whip has been used almost 7 years now as an ongoing experiment with rather unexpected results. I have received with aural copy the now closed down NDB on Easter Island in the Pacific. But I am convinced that a loop at a good location should have given similar results. And yes, a whip is much easier to handle when going portible; especially when it is housed in a piece of plastic pipe measuring 30 x 60 mm. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB021-a18f4b89154230a; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:51:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 51C8D380000C1; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:51:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM7M-0007yj-W1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM7M-0007yZ-CR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlM7K-0004hE-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 27164 invoked by uid 507); 27 Feb 2010 13:49:38 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 13:49:38 +0100 Message-ID: <201002271349450019.11B4E35F@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:49:45 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b89154113d5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 >Electrical/Mechanical aids are only necessary above say 20 KCS >de Mal/G3KEV Make that 17.2. Think of SAQ/M0BMU. John F5VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.13]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE064-5eb94b83967f138; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:49:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4AD7F3800009E; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:49:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqR3-00085w-D2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqR2-00085n-SX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:04 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqR0-0000mi-39 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:48:04 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8mhgZ009735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8mhPk009732 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:48:43 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d4b83967e083d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought > them to resonance at 1.5kHz [...] Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of > 15m. [...] now try to repeat the same test with both antennas outside. you will find that the coupling to wires within your home enhances the signal, this principle is used in mine comminications on lf. you should still be able to span 15m, but the signal should be much weaker. btw, this is one route that you can take to transmit vlf, but coupling your transmitter to big commercial strictures might be illegal (hint :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI084-eb694b82fa81254; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1C18938000104; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njg2s-0005Bx-IB for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njg2s-0005Bo-3L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.34.165]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2m-0005kh-N5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:42:26 +0000 Received: from [212.54.34.146] (helo=smtp15.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2g-0003FR-Sp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:14 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=P43000) by smtp15.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njg2e-0007hn-9F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:12 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:42:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000001cab407$e4215180$ac63f480$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq0B+OZx1kFeIDNTNaJ8zgQ3Q9QsA== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njg2e-0007hn-9F X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-4.397, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, UPPERCASE_50_75 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844b82fa7e0308 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PA3EGO Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS Heard by: GM4ISM, LA6TPA, M0LMH, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV 73s willem pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= PA3EGO
Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS
Heard by: GM4ISM, LA6TPA, M0LMH, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV

73s willem pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB410.45E5B980-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b879854204; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:45:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 412BE38000092; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:45:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkwk4-0003fZ-EV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkwk3-0003fQ-WA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:15 +0000 Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.98]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkwk1-0003Zu-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:15 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (81.235.167.68) by pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (7.3.140.3) (authenticated as u33233109) id 4B5C64F70046D030 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:44:06 +0100 Message-ID: <4B8797E9.9060500@telia.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:44:09 +0100 From: "Johan H. Bodin" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> In-Reply-To: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b8798531b26 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Jay, Marcus, LF, jrusgrove@comcast.net wrote: ... > There appeared to be a noticeable quiet spot in the > waterfall between ~ 8 and 9 kHz. I didn't investigate > if this was an anomoly in the system or if there happens > to be a quiet spot at that frequency. When sferics are weak or absent, I often see a "dark band" in that region, even with a nonresonant antenna (for example an E-field probe which is "flat"). Markus Vester wrote: ... > Part of the discrepancy > could be that published figures inevitably include the energy of the > distict spherics, which may well contribute the dominant part of the > average noise power. Yes, and that is probably why ITU's published figures show such a huge difference between summer and winter. The radio spectrum emitted by lightning discharges has a broad "hump" around 10kHz so it is a good idea to hurry up with the experiments now before the northern hemisphere moves into the QRN season. ;-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD012-8b754b855ac114; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB90C3800010A; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006QG-Rf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKXv-0006Q7-Fm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKXt-0005qE-JC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:57:11 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OGv55i058178 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:06 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00374 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:02:06 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:57:08 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b855ab5782f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz = 35 Ohm > 137kHz = 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.). > The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 = 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-) > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the > losses. It will increse loss:-) > But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a > 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more > convenient value. True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway. I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m (difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100 km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise). Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right. But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate resistance on lamda=30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part). 1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-( Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.93]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b6748271a8; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:31:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CDD2538000307; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:31:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3qA-0003NV-T6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc3qA-0003NM-Gh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f209.google.com ([209.85.220.209]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc3q8-0001vA-DP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:29:50 +0000 Received: by fxm1 with SMTP id 1so1830875fxm.4 for ; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:29:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=htZ/DPyLHgON9r4e4wfve+fXuf1ImIQ1+Mf9fsOdDnU=; b=UAbk15ConBmH46gUCKCK3/wkG5p10Ew8ttbPZviGjWCb/piu92RenE9jXkSxjHoE/o qwW4t2rmunZGvNVqR58+j0EtlwCz67A9n2IacaLU0RBZSSl5QfZaHCoZ2HH+Pay3MVM8 ciiUEzkwrgslXOd8yBxu8LtrabqWk5/6qZIKA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=syMlq75TLKWtDC5DtKFc4P2FFHRWu69jz3hiWcOCMMJGZjuJMxn3hZyJvciqlhVpdc +ig3cVFgxaCEx5Qz0/PG7NnB3bwkAaQj0UOJTHqVGwEGRXHpMogv3mW+ONb7gRCmWqxw 5v9ErnoMfm6BL5MWy749LQ5ig3qmMriF/dO6M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.187.139 with SMTP id l11mr635838hbh.96.1265059780612; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:29:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: G4JNT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405d4b6748245065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See if you can decode it - the plot looks as if the signal strong enough. The PSK31 appears every 15 minutes at hh:04:30, hh:19:30 hh:34:30 and hh:49:30 Andy www.g4jnt.com 2010/2/1 Lubos OK2BVG > Hello LF! > I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700. > > Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS > > ------------------------------ > Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od= spole=E8nosti > Microsoft Zaregistrovat > --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
See if you can decode it -=A0the plot looks as if the signal strong= enough.
=A0
The PSK31 appears every 15 minutes at hh:04:30, hh:19:30 hh:34:30 and= hh:49:30
2010/2/1 Lubos OK2BVG <bvgbob@hotmail.com>
Hello LF!
I see signal of G4JNT beacon on 503.700.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: V=FDkonn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba zdarma se zabezpe=E8en=EDm od sp= ole=E8nosti Microsoft Zaregistrovat
<= br> --001485f7bec4d7d19d047e90aec3-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.81]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF061-8bed4b699de7276; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:01:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B78D2380001F5; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nchdx-0004p2-KG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nchdx-0004ot-6n for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nchdv-0000g1-BK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:59:53 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13FxoFq030219 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:59:50 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:59:49 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:59:49 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: optic RX_1 Thread-Index: AcqkCNpGt+IduJZAR5CirjCxAM/NqQAXhQqsACAJ2pI= References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.155117 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045" Subject: LF: optic RX_1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b699de3316f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear group,=20 In the picture in this mail i show the circuit of the simpelst way to tran= sform the optic signal back to an alternating voltage that can be connecte= d to the RX imput. It is the version with a phototransistor. This way is= working and a good start point for further (individual) experiments, e.g.= if noise really decreases significantly... The potentiometer should be adjusted to a miximum signal on the s-meter,= depending to the input impedance of the cable (cable + RX). It can be rep= laced later by a fixed resistor. The 100k resistor can be replaced by an= inductance and adjusted to maximum strenght and so on. First, the circuit= should be supplied by a battery and later by the power supply of the RX.= So it can be seen if there comes an additional noise by the supply. I hav= e integrated this little circuit in my K2, to minimise the effort of cable= s and housings. A simple switch can be used to change the input (optic /= coax). So one can compare both transmission paths... Due to the snow the post has problems to reach my house and so i still do= not have the SFH250V (photodiode). But soon i will try it this way and wi= ll see if noise even can be even decreased... =20 73 es gl ;-) Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjIPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEADwAAAExGOiBvcHRpYyBSWF8xAGUE AQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAEAA7ADEAAwBlAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgADABAAOwAxAAMAZQEBCYABACEA AAAwQUY4NjY4NUY0MzRDRDQ5QkMyMzFCMTEwQzg5OTQzQQAhBwEDkAYASA4AADgAAAADADYAAAAA AEAAOQBFQCLq6aTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAExGOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1I U1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMDMxNTU5NDlaLTMyNwAAAB4ASQABAAAAMgAAAEFXOiBM RjogTG9vcCBwcmVhbXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIgLyBvcHRpY2FsIGxpbmsAAABAAE4A7/VNGmuk ygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAA AGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hl 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psJOAMvQcuAeAAEwAQAAAA8AAABvcHRpYyBSWF8xLmpwZwAAQAAHMOFREMHppMoBQAAIMOFREMHp pMoBHgADNwEAAAAEAAAAanBnAAMABTcBAAAAHgAHNwEAAAAPAAAAb3B0aWMgUlhfMS5qcGcAAAMA Czf/////HgAONwEAAAAMAAAAaW1hZ2UvcGpwZWcAyyo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA4E9.EA224045-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.222]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD083-8b924b8998f237c; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23E953800008F; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:13:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUtC-0003sP-IU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUtC-0003sG-1x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from imr-db03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.97]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlUtA-00075W-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:11:58 +0000 Received: from mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.133]) by imr-db03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1RMBjP8006687 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:11:45 -0500 Received: from Black (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 44B43E000094 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:11:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9C37FBB31AF6404980D3039622DBE323@Black> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:11:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16669 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33854b8998a00f34 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40de4b8998f11dde X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jim, LF, yes I'm aware of the fact that the shielding from trees etc is more si= gnificant at lower frequency. Their ohmic conductance becomes a better= shunt in comparison with decreasing capacitive admittance, somewhat= similar to a C-R highpass equivalent circuit. There used to be two be= autiful 15 m high fir trees in the vicinity of our house. At 137 kHz,= I measured a ~ 15% increase in effective height when the trees were= deeply frozen, but the effect on 9 kHz may have been more severe. A= couple of years ago our neighbours had these trees chopped down, good= for LF but otherwise sad. In April 2003, I attempted to transmitt an 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating= about 1 microwatt from my normal LF antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. heig= ht). I drove around and stopped in different places, putting up a 6m= fishing pole with a wire, connected to a resonant circuit and the lap= top soundcard. Each time I took a short Spectrogram full-band screensh= ot, along with a narrowband capture from a special Argo version, patch= ed for 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly of the screenshots is at http:/= /freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif. Maximum detection range was= 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive nearfield. No noiseblankin= g was attempted at the time. If you look at the Spectrogram strips, you can see that the first (1.6= km) and third (6.0 km) images have a much lower absolute receive leve= l. At first I thought something was wrong with the receive antenna, un= til I realized that this was purely due to these sites being in a fore= sted area. I have now rigged up SpecLab again for VLF reception. The Russian Alph= a beacons seem to be usefiul calibration markers, the nearest one is= currently about 20 dB SNR here in a 42 Hz FFT. Does anybody in the gr= oup have information about their EMRP, or has someone attempted to mea= sure their fieldstrength in Europe? Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Moritz=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:51 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Dear Markus, LF Group, I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise le= vel was about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz One possibility for the discrepancy between results is that the effe= ctive height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compared to the LF cali= bration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength measuring se= ssions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna wor= ks out consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is= due to increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower fr= equencies.=20 H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affected.= Of course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is bl= own out of the water... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Jim, LF,
 
yes I'm aware of the fact that the sh= ielding from=20 trees etc is more significant at lower frequency. Their = ;ohmic=20 conductance becomes a better shunt in comparison with=20 decreasing capacitive admittance, somewhat similar to a C-R highp= ass=20 equivalent circuit. There used to be two beautiful 15 m high= fir trees=20 in the vicinity of our house. At 137 kHz, I measured a ~=20 15% increase in effective height when the trees were deeply= frozen,=20 but the effect on 9 kHz may have been more severe. A couple of years= ago our=20 neighbours had these trees chopped down, good for LF but otherwise=20 sad.
 
In April 2003, I attempted to tr= ansmitt an=20 8.97 kHz carrier, radiating about 1 microwatt from my normal LF= =20 antenna (220 pF at ~ 9m eff. height). I drove around and sto= pped in=20 different places, putting up a 6m fishing pole with a wire,= connected=20 to a resonant circuit and the laptop soundcard. Each time I took= a short=20 Spectrogram full-band screenshot, along with a narrowband capture= from a=20 special Argo version, patched for 22 kHz samplerate. An assembly= of the=20 screenshots is at  http://freenet-homepage.de/df6nm/8970_ALL.gif<= /A>.=20 Maximum detection range was 6 km, just marginally outside the reactive= =20 nearfield. No noiseblanking was attempted at the time.
 
If you look at the Spectrogram strips= , you can see=20 that the first (1.6 km) and third (6.0 km) images have a muc= h lower=20 absolute receive level. At first I thought something was wrong wi= th the=20 receive antenna, until I realized that this was purely due to the= se sites=20 being in a forested area.
 
I have now rigged up SpecLab aga= in=20 for VLF reception. The Russian Alpha beacons seem to=20 be usefiul calibration markers, the nearest one is currently abou= t 20 dB=20 SNR here in a 42 Hz FFT. Does anybody in the group have informati= on about=20 their EMRP, or has someone attempted to measure their fieldstreng= th in=20 Europe?
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 26, 20= 10 6:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noi= se=20 level

Dear Markus, LF Group,

I checked the noise level again= during the=20 daytime, and the noise level was about 6dB lower than last night, i.= e. about=20 13uV/m per sqrtHz

One possibility for the discrepancy between= results=20 is that the effective height of your antenna is reduced at VLF compa= red to the=20 LF calibration point. In my transmitting vertical field strength mea= suring=20 sessions on 500k, 136k and earlier 73k, the Heff of the same antenna= works out=20 consistently less as the frequency is reduced. I think this is due= to=20 increased "site loss" due to surrounding trees at the lower frequenc= ies.=20
 
H-field sensing loop antennas can be expected to be less affect= ed. Of=20 course, if there are no trees near your antenna, that theory is blow= n out of=20 the water...

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de=20 M0BMU


------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CAB802.328E1C60-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB081-85f44b77c02b8d; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:19:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3B3F538000120; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:19:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgacG-0001Ao-N3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgacG-0001Af-7X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgacE-0002e1-Av for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:18:12 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXT00G9RR61YC@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:18:02 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:18:00 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b77c0292097 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ)" --Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_6wjnoumANhWtV5ZtsO7GjQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC 14-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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xx6w5xoSlDHU4PWXpwpJfnABdesVV3Nd4O8r5xK7brGjpzk+mCu80185CSl5zzhnvHnJ00wS M864XaGgzg5oYK5f6wWtys5cLo6fWKR1tivLhaujzjLlk1GLXFSIRZQcAcrXoY5MAAZsihxr OWK1TMUANiIROEJMNBthwktERDoJFFVjOxzW+tH1TJawMclSA0aIQLoDWcilEhfQLv1rvwGf /9k= --Boundary_(ID_aeB3u45L6Z/7Bb5l55fbOw)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF022-5ee74b86dd95196; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0C453380000AE; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkkJa-0007cY-0R for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkkJZ-0007cP-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:05 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkkJV-0008OM-Fw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:05 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1PKSfEs022127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1PKSfa9022124 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:28:41 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.538 () AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b86dd93210d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received > today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] > They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for > frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required > as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the > WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.216]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI021-eaba4b718c575e; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:24:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 479E6380000B9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nessi-0003xr-M2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nessi-0003xi-9O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nessf-0002df-RI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:24:08 +0000 Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so195826bwz.30 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qyCgJLmJji/Gv/WMJXPqABpcL/9Kpl+3BSPgb+LWuv8=; b=TO1KoJ1IakEpWlfUfm/rRRLTARKvNHremuFL59HF+JVQMHyfsYLu25Tr79tGIXWLle xEMklo1suJdxEjfkHdGs+l5ZCne84FbKig+iZlhw2ATxZXUhBOJCkt5vxykoGvuaB1kA jhFN/8TaXgTqspihb7ltUBa3EIScEe6VBaCeY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=xT5uUiw8mS7Wwt7Sg0PRr8i3hnG2UBQUGr8LhTEfvwpCapuMvDcCQ5umb2R/AzCyWL PHbYvx0Vm86ku0wmknb1CHgG8ygvMO27d5pC1oSppNX8qc9Zu509J8aY18sw+Ihtqni8 mP6BhnDSUrtctftL/rqm14SSMFvsFDxJKc9iA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.8.5 with SMTP id f5mr4523383bkf.59.1265732639534; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:23:59 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002090823t46429f73w314d13b6f438464b@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DX on 600m Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d84b718c556eee X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well done Albert - a nice contact. Good to see a CW contact partly as a result of helpful data from earlier WSPR beaconing. 73s Roger G3XBM On 9 February 2010 15:46, Albert wrote: > To all, > > This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in > FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 > kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a > couple of nights. > > 73, Albert PA0A > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done Albert - a nice contact. Good to see a CW contact partly as a re= sult of helpful data from earlier WSPR beaconing.

73s
Roger G3XB= M

On 9 February 2010 15:46, Albert <westberg@xs4all.nl<= /a>> wrote:
To all,

This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in= FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3= kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon= for a couple of nights.

73, Albert PA0A




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174bdd3a5c2f6b047f2d581d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b83145e41; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 23087380000DB; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhlt-0006kD-NU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhls-0006k4-Ka for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:00 +0000 Received: from outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com ([64.136.55.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njhlp-0006jV-Hn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:33:00 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juno.com; s=alpha; t=1266881569; bh=47DEQpj8HBSa+/TImW+5JCeuQeRkm5NMpJWZG3hSuFU=; l=0; h=To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:From; b=aQklCkwfsRngbXSapE8RtZo/McrxIUaJNZzPhxePwmq5pUUhzolubf3Zotn93NdaJ dC68Q4s9GrqzA+2Fi9irbqbTQv1ZTypLl1i0wOiarpfVAr4QR+XKX/NQrFCs1NhcTs PTiJtEpCpXOyWREe1d+eHouPoPcq/F9hcTG1iJN4= X-UOL-TAGLINE: true Received: from outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m03.vgs.untd.com with SMTP id AABF2GE92ALD2CQ2 for (sender ); Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:32:08 -0800 (PST) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewBL/fyqGQeqqoRMTvuXJBhVsSaxy+a2fpQ== Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m03.vgs.untd.com (jqueuemail) id P7EPD54T; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:31:27 PST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:31:12 -0500 Message-ID: <20100222.183112.2212.2.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-12,14-16,18,21,23,25-30,32-41,43-44,46-47,49-50,54-55,58-59,61-78,80-85,87-94,96,98-100,103-146,148-149,151-152,154-157,159-435,436-32767 From: riese-k3djc@juno.com X-UNTD-BodySize: 34222 X-ContentStamp: 98:49:1611095288 X-MAIL-INFO:387878ac557819ec78d5e578fc2121d1b5dc6d8d2165f161916901ecb5699ca11d4d0dacf925c5395d78e9b1b1086c0c2805317cf5f57ca918115cd1a8b139b881952c3958d98d4c9d888868c84d59b5911ce89169c5c539ada8f531d8add99da14828bc25f5a8cc1848d5b17d1c216d7d6d2d0065004149008d2c4c8869a578f18c3c55e9cce11c55d5257919196d35ec450849a9f59dad5c18ad18d1a818dd6108853dcddc4188b94c99c84935b5bccd9545192ca99518e8dc5cd8d8dcb9bc8cbcd9d8ecc988a9c9d5d97989ddb59c313dd8e8c1682d09a19c5dc1594d31e8b1cca5acb16c9c7d08ace585acec X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|outbound-jn.vgs.untd.com|riese-k3djc@juno.com X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d275.1 ; domain : juno.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b83145c4ea4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?=20 the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter of the Pipe ?? I kinda remember something about that some years ago Bob K3DJC On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe writes: Pete, what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. 73, Rik Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik So how do I load it? I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of audio to try out.=20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB designs in the LF Handbook. I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400 turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be different now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------ ____________________________________________________________ Nutrition Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=3Dnvpx1CaT8PmZGpQB-dmvTAAAJ1= D5rfaR-77IPsUFbn2LcZ2XAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASQwAAAAA= =3D ----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?
the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter<= /DIV>
of the Pipe  ?? I kinda remember something about that some years= =20 ago
 
Bob K3DJC
 
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20 writes:
Pete,=
 
what about putting a large= (1..10nF) cap=20 from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the required= inductance=20 with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss=20 resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap needs to= handle the=20 high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780=20 Watt.
A ready available source of= HV caps is=20 RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m= you=20 would 10 to 100m cable.
 
73, Rik
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 23:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:= RE: LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz

Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil= so it=20 would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out bef= ore=20 melting.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about= 100=20 Watts of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of= the=20 RSGB designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible.....= ..=20 there is a lot of pontificating on this reflector a= bout=20 this subject but I am looking for a practical method of loadi= ng a=20 wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels=20 above there are LF stations who may cooperate in doing= an RX=20 test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or=20 M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule= =20 fraction of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the= =20 answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)......=20 anyone?? 
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe= =20 <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

From:=20 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE:= LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 Februar= y,=20 2010, 21:24

Pete= ,
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2= mm has a=20 resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil= doen't get=20 hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.<= /DIV>
 
73, Rik  ON7YD= -=20 OR7T
 
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 201= 0=20 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwer= p:=20 RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load= my=20 inv "L"  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt= audio=20 amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air= cored=20 former is 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driv= en by=20 about 60kVolts. Making a coil that will be getting pr= etty=20 hot!!!!! Probably red hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon,=20 22/2/10, James Cowburn=20 <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From:=20 James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subjec= t: RE:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
= Date:=20 Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung betw= een K2=20 and Everest summits and fed from
base camp=20 below?



-----Original Message-----
From= : owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /A>
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org] On=20 Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010=20 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US= below=20 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radi= ate a=20 signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren= =20 K2ORS
             = ;=20   WD2XGJ
          &nbs= p;=20     WD2XSH/23
       =  =20       WE2XEB/2
      &n= bsp;=20         WE2XGR/1



On= Mon,=20 Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>=20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= =20 probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he di= d=20 approach the regulator at one time
maybe around 2001/= 2 when=20 Geri was doing his tests the answer as I=20 remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are no= t=20 allocated by International Treaty but we
control all= =20 frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will no= t=20 be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
&= gt; I=20 believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things= may be=20 different
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know wh= ether=20 an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould= G4WKL=20 who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>
> Alan= =20 G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10,=20 Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>=20 wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.= de>
>>=20 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,=20 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>>= ; And=20 do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries=20 in
>> europe as
>> well? What about th= e=20 UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If= such a=20 grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>= ;>=20 a big
>> antenna without the problems we have= on LF=20 (getting the
>> wire high above
>> gro= und).=20 So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>&= gt;=20 you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is= =20 clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB.=20 But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about bu= ilding=20 an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x= 20m,=20 is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m= in=20 a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (w= hich=20 will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i th= ink)=20 mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> cou= ld=20 be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no= earth=20 radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on= some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed= =20 point,
>> that would be a first=20 step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be= bad=20 but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
&g= t;>=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance=20 and
>> make some
>> contacts at very= low=20 frequencies, although it would be much
>> easie= r=20 on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so,= if=20 one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>&g= t;=20 the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it?= =20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has= =20 anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as=20 well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wi= th the=20 ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>= >=20 expect. But
>> that are=20 dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>>= ;=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;=20 Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger=20 Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequen= cy,=20 widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs= =20 are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There= =20 are
>> references to how these work in
>&= gt;=20 the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from=20 the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the inte= rnet I=20 believe) and on one of the
>> German ham=20 sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>= ;=20   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a=20 fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal=20 processing technology and reasonable (amateur
&g= t;>=20 levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine ac= hieved=20 worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>&= gt;=20 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and=20 antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of= =20 kms.
>>
>>   73s
>> &nbs= p;=20 Roger=20 G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>=20   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
>&= gt;
>>=20   Hello=20 Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>>= That=20 sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find=20 some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near= field=20 (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> fie= ld=20 to
>>=20 test.
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>&= gt;=20 configurations for that
>> range and got the id= ea=20 that one could use a forrest as an
>>=20 antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s= =20 meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>>= =20 parallel. You do not need to have that area beside=20 your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the= wire=20 and nobody will care about it.
>>
>>= Since=20 summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna=20 mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill= with=20 excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also= =20 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to= 12m=20 above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from=20 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>>= =20 tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem bu= t with=20 bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But= if one=20 would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would= =20 be
>>=20 interesting...
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>=20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far=20 i
>> think=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What= is=20 your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>= ;>=20 commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are= there=20 some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73= ,=20 Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>>= PS: One=20 can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&g= t;>=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 ________________________________
>>
>>=
>>
>>=20 Von: owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 im Auftrag von Horst=20 St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet:= Mo=20 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>    = An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
&= gt;>
>>
>>=20 Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in=20 QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
= >>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>= ;>=20 there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= =20 in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is=20 free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I= could=20 not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
&g= t;>=20 while I got
>> a letter which confirmed=20 that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So= there=20 nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licen= ce.=20 You do not
>> need=20 one.
>>
>>
>>
>> The= re is=20 no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= =20 bandwith or=20 power.
>>
>>
>>
>>= Hard to=20 believe in german, but obviously=20 true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My= QTH=20 is Siegburg=20 JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>>= =20 Horst
>>
>>=20 ________________________________________________________= ___
>>
>>=20 NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF=20 sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 --
>>
>>
>>
>>  = ; http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>=20   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>&g= t;
>>=20   http= ://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>>=20 G3XBM    GQRP 1678    =20  ISWL
>>=20 G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>=20 --
>> ----------------------------
>>= =20 Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr= =20 Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>>=20 Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>&g= t;=20 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
&g= t;>=20 Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)62= 21=20 546405
>>
>>=20 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>= ;>
>
>



 


________________________= ____________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career health= . Click now to study nutrition!
----__JNP_000_1264.683b.08b4-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE061-5eb64b69d90d24c; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:14:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9C9E338000191; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NclbB-0006Eu-VF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NclbB-0006El-Ie for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nclb8-0002Zr-Tl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:13:17 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13KDDxT018664 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:14 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:13:13 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:13:13 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlCaQQGTidxzC+SrGocXzpoTTi2wAAowtp References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.200033 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9" Subject: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b69d90b7a50 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrey, tnx very much! =20 Your signal is visible at the DF6NM grabber. Here it is also visible, but= just "T". Hight above gnd seems not to be optimal and there is a wet tree= near the ant. DCF39 is just S5... But i can see that there is something,= nice!=20 =20 Perhaps i have to make some measurements when the active (E- Field) antenn= a is not mounted to a big metallic tube. Then, i expect, the capacity of= the ground "electrode"(between far field and gnd and between gnd and eart= h) becomes more relevant. With a coax cable and/or a metallic tower, the= ground electrode has much more C against anything and can be seen as infi= nite. So just the C of the input wire is relevant. But not with a totally= decoupled system... =20 73! 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AAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQU5EUkVZLFROWFZFUllNVUNIWU9VUlNJR05B TElTVklTSUJMRUFUVEhFREY2Tk1HUkFCQkVSSEVSRUlUSVNBTFNPVklTSUJMRSxCVVRKVVNUIlQi SElHSFRBQk9WRUdORFNFRQAAAAACAX8AAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBB RDBERDg1RTgyQTFBREZARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0 LmRlPgAAeSo= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA50D.50815FC9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-di07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI073-ead04b7009f1116; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:56:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B216738000100; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:56:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeT8W-0000CK-Hx for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeT8W-0000CB-6e for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeT8V-0000yb-5k for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0000 Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o18CsZ49021806 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:54:35 -0500 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cd6.619e3994 (43834) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:54:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.156]) by cia-dc02.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC027-d4334b70097b69; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:30 -0500 Received: from webmail-d084 (webmail-d084.sim.aol.com [205.188.181.39]) by smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMD032-d4334b70097b69; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 30603-STANDARD Received: from 194.138.39.52 by webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.39) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:54:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: MarkusVester@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_AOL_TAGS=0.281,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Solar Flares Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b7009ef76c3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear LF, the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today) are= very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also a vi= sible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz. 73 de Markus, DF6NM =20 http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm =20 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Dear LF,
 
the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today= ) are very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also= a visible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz.
 
73 de Markus, DF6NM
 
 ----------MB_8CC76D4F6678D2F_2370_1D064_webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-me05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME054-8bb34b86f42eec; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:05:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C2660380001AB; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:05:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkloq-0008FJ-B5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nklop-0008FA-NL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:27 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nklom-0000QW-Pj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:04:27 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PM4MY3019544 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:23 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:22 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:04:21 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2TpB0zrcp/Lj/SmOkb4RsHXAl2wAA2Xm3 References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.215719 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB" Subject: AW: LF: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55511 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4b86f42b3768 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion!=20 =20 Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint wha= t is happening here in the last days ;-)) I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on 8,9= kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my "electronic-= lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and resonating that= coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and heating problems).= Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be right, i will try a= transmission on sunday morning but that is still uncertain and i would te= ll it to the group before. I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX there.= Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on low= frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Hi Stefan, LF,=20 There is a VLF Group at the following :-=20 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ The members discuss & are= involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informative= group. 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmit= ters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in= this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achie= ving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them= for some tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB666.7C2E8FEB Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAGgAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGIHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFscz8A9gcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAGQAXAAQAFQAEADABASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkAFwAEABYA BAAxAQEJgAEAIQAAAEM3MENBMDYxMDI1NDY3NEJBOUY2NTc5MDQ1N0JFMjM1AP8GAQOQBgDcFAAA OAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOuPLnxmtsoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABj PURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MjIwNDIxWi0xMTU3AAAAHgBJAAEA AAAaAAAAUmU6IExGOiBWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAEAATgAAvY7jTbbKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAA AG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwABAAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+k vqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABv d25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAAACgAAABTTVRQOk9XTkVS 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MAILINMB083-a7d94b687577352; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:56:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4A31E3801C1A2; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:32:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNWd-0006fQ-Ub for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNWd-0006fH-JY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNWb-0001C5-JA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:30:59 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsgEAKv+Z0tOlvOe/2dsb2JhbACNEgPMVIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,392,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295909815" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.150.243.158]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 18:30:45 +0000 Message-ID: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:30:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b686fcf38c8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where= are the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! I thought EU was progressive !! G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Presently active in cw qso mode, seve= ral PA stns=20 plus 2 LA stns. Where are the French and German stns? not to mention= Marconi=20 !!!!!
I thought EU was progressive !!
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CAA435.CFC2EA00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.11]) by air-de02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE024-5ea94b689b29287; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:37:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EC83638000190; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:37:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQQ8-0007i0-PN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQQ8-0007hr-Af for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcQQ6-0002Lv-F7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:36:28 +0000 Received: from COL122-W43 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:36:19 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:36:19 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 21:36:19.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[C19D17B0:01CAA44F] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_" Subject: LF: EI0CF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600b4b689b261afd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_" --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Finbar, LF! I watched your CW QSO on 502.500kHz. You signal was nice, with small QSB.= I was not able to unerstand the call of the other station, becouse his si= gnal was very unstable. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Finbar, LF!
I watched your CW QSO on 502.500kHz. You signal was= nice, with small QSB. I was not able to unerstand the call of the other= station, becouse his signal was very unstable.

73!

Lubos,= OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1= , d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba Zaregistrovat =3D --_e9bb2b6d-49fe-408e-af77-31e66df03376_-- --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100202_EI0CF.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAiARkDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwClII 6g80laemWOp3kdxcWVm1wtvH87hc+WPUe/50m0tWBUa1lhtIrlwAspIjB5LAdTiq4JBBHBFbM/h3 XXgtbuSwnZbohYNq5L8ZGAPaq0eh6pJOYRp9yrDlt0TAIM4JPHA4P5UlOL6jszPpVUu4UdScCkrT k8PaxFL5R0y7ZiocbIWYEEZzkCm2luCTexnOpR2RsZUkHFNrRs9Ivbm3uLqO1eSG2Deaf+eZAz8w qxc6JfW/h9dWubfy4p51COwwXBUsCvtS5o7XFYo2FmL2SZTIE8uF5ee+0ZxVU+1aGk6JqWstL/Z9 u0vkgGQggbQf8mqt5avZ3BhdkfABDocqwI6g9xTum7AQU5wNxZQQhY7c1Z0vTLrWNRhsLKPzLiYk IucdBk/oKZe2j2N/cWcnLwStExHcqcf0o5le3UCvRXTp4M1l4orVdOLX06GdIywDhAQOmffP4VhS WNxa6mbG4t3FwsnltEBls9MD1PpSU4vRMdmQwwS3EyQwozyOcKqjJJpro8bskisrqcFWGCDW5H4d 8RWOriO2029FwkpjjcQMATyMgkY/Gptc0DxJJc/a77SpN8jCPfAm4O3T+HPJpe0htcfLLsYdxY3N rb29xPCUiuFLRMSPmA61AVYKGI+U5ANdnqHhfWD4Vtppbe4lnjdIhaCNi9sGDHJA5G7CnB9ayG0v UbXSTbSaPdCW4mXy3kt2BJwThOOvBzQqkHsxcr7GNDbzXBYQxPJtG5tozgVHXQaXoniK3u3eC0ub Py4meWaeEqiIOpOR0qS98Ja/ca/PbQ6PdF3kZlxEQpXOd2emKHUgt2Pll2Obop80TwTSQyDDxsVY ehBwa37TSnu/CU8ljYXFzcrcJ50iRswVMNgDHuOfwqm0ldiSvsc7T5IZIghdGUONykjqPatK28Pa vdyt5Wk3e0Kzn9y2FUZ7n6fieK038G+KLu0SUadNJEioIwTzgrngH8M+9RKrCPxNIOV9jmVjd1Zl RiqjLEDoKmksrqK3WaSCRImAYMRgEHoa07DR9aW8jgOlXzRrMvmxfZ25zjg8dxW54p0bXbe3lvWK zaXEhi85QAq/vCuzH94HA/Cm6kE0m9w5X2OLRkXduXdlSB7H1pla2l+HNU1m0muNPtXnWKRY32fw 7s8n2rRHgbxAkBu7exF1blVMcsZBWQMudy564pSq046OSCzZz8Sw/ZJ2kb958ojA6k55/DH9KhUA 5yccccdavro2rI0jf2XdnyT+8zbthTgH5uOOCDz61oXvhbXPKvL+S0BjgOZyjD93wGwR1HBHFVzx XUOVowpEVCoDhiVBOOxPamYOM44ooqhBjFOSOSTd5aM20Fm2jOAOpPtW74j0K60iKznv3UXV4u8R oOAgAAP41BZW2r6bpzavDan7FMphMrAFWBOCPXrUqcWrphYx6KmWcLZyQbRud1bdjoADkfqPyqGq AVmLHJPOMV3HgrxDD4f8MeIGlZxJcBIoADxvKuM49gcn6CuGp29tmzJ2k5x71nVpRqx5Jbf5ajjJ xd0er2vjrS1t9JtIbc3J02wkDDeULyeUEwpI6Y3dR3zVJPiVpwiubGHRZRbzRSxh5bncxBUgcBRy enXvXm0Y3MQH2/KTn8OlMHB461zf2fh27tfi+9zeOKqxg4J6MUcngc16TP8AEfT4Ps9uujSzC3ij iL/a9nKKBwNp9Ouea81pVXcwUYGTjmtq+Gp10lUV7f10Io16lF81N2Z6JeeP4PM8UQJC5h1hVMRI +4TGAS36dKzfGPi+z13RNJ0zT4JYYLIYcSY+YhVVSMdsA1xzhlcqxyVOPyptTHCUoyUktV/lb8iO eWp3Xw98S6X4fi1GHUS5+27Y1AX5VwrjLe3zYxXDl3YbSxI7AmrFmbX94LkuBtyu3uR/D+NV5GDy MyqFUkkKO3tWsaUYzlNbytf5A5NpJ9Df8F69beHPESahdQvLEIpE2p1+ZccfqPxqhr2ox6t4gvtR ijMaXMzShCMEZOe1ZtFCpRVR1OtrC5nax6/qvxFsrTX1V7WV7WKGSGaPHzPJuQ5Bz93j+ftXmdzr Ms/iaTWlQLK119pCk5AO7diqd1eXF7KJbmQyOFCgkAcCoKyo4SlR+BeRcqs5bs9Gl8d6Bc6oJjpF 6izSbpHNyoEeTyQuw5HsTWh4h8b6N5sEjWE14JFkkjlgm8lCrSO2CCpO4E4PTucdq8pqae6luIoY 3I2QrtRQMADOT+JNZf2fQ7fizr/tPFtqXPqtj0+78e6JNo+Y7C8lGIEkia4ChMK2dhKncRnB4GRj 0qXRfGehCwSdbW/iNvLJI8QmDjHlMAxIUdc8ccMBXkuTjGePSnLI6Kyq7KrDDAHAP1pf2dQtaz+9 +hH1/EODhzaN3+Z6XpPjDTrt7qOy0+6tNQktZlhJulZTIVwAPlHPJOT0x3qe48c6JD4tMs+mXgeO fLzNOuN699m3oW/2unPtXlisVYMpIYHII6ih3aRy7sWZjkknJJp/2dh+34sp5linJy59WrfIdNK0 00krnLOxY/UnNdb4a8T6Vo/h24sb61u7mWW6EqrDKEVQFxnJB55PbsK4+iuqpSjUjyS2OWlWnSmq kHZo9K0jxxo8mqIx0m5t5NjkSNdh1UhTyRsHHXvW3P4z0TTraxRIZPKigi3ESHEyeQ0eI/cZH3vX 1rxsEjocUhOa5Xl2HfT8WdFTH4io+acrv+megQ+OtEkmj+0aNewohyGhvFcj8Cg/nVzxH410XXPD GoWtu14t5L8w+1YwQZzIVGCemePYAV5nRTWAoKSkltruwq4/EVlapK53vw58Safo7S2d5HcSPcXM bxiPGFKq3J9evI+la6/EnRbGK1t49IvLhoVWOV7h1VxtjKDGM/Nhjn6mvLopXhmSaNtsiMGVvQjk Gkd2lkaRzuZiSSe5NFXAUKs3Oa1fmzGOIqRVos9Ah+IOkxzRuNBulAPJ+3htozzgeWO1aknjbS7/ AEvxUkaziS9EssRcYVR5aRjJ7k4yOn8q8pqRZpUhkhVyI5CC6jocdKFl9BO6X4vvc0q42vWt7SV7 DUG5wvrxQQVcrwSDjg5oeNo9u4Y3KGHuKbXacp2fxG1u31/U7G7tWJijtvIbrw6sSw/8eHNSHxRY H4Vjw8rN9t83ewIOMeZuwDXFNIzKqk/KvQYptYLDU1CMOkdUVzO7YUUUVuSFFFFABSrww+tFFACU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAHaiiigApU5dfrRRQAlFFFABRRRQAU8/6pf8AeP8A SiigBlFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/2Q== --_d3e3da6f-437d-4112-9c3c-8a690262b918_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.12]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF024-8bd44b6a954c2cd; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:37:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BC63D38000171; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncy6x-00026O-KX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncy6x-00026F-9D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncy6u-0007HF-OX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:34:55 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXB00BAI99OIA@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:34:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:34:33 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RjB020gpkKrq+BuRoTLF8g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410c4b6a95442441 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_RjB020gpkKrq+BuRoTLF8g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA)" --Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,LF Capture RN3AGC Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: RN3AGC 03-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_QEU+4D9eFZAqD2G/x0vayA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,LF
Capture RN3AGC
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
RN3AGC 03-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.76]) by air-me09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME091-8bc04b714de1153; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:58:25 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C16B9380002B1; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:58:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeoiN-0003PE-PR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeoiN-0003P5-E2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml101.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeoiK-0000ZK-Tr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:57:11 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML101.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:57:05 +0100 Message-ID: <8735F9494D9B48E2BB84A45204F5D38A@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: <005101caa976$cf3ac210$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:56:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2010 11:57:05.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF835150:01CAA97E] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: LF 136 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604c4b714ddf5f7f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Veit,that was Ossi,OE5ODL, and tnx for the capture henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DL7ET=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:58 AM Subject: LF: LF 136 Last night I received a beacon on 136khz, but my sreen was to slow,= because I wrote PA3CPM. Who was the other beacon? transmitted from 0150 until 0715 UTC on 13= 6.32 khz vy 73 Veit ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/0= 8/10 19:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Veit,that was Ossi,OE5ODL,
and tnx for the capture
 
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DL7ET
Sent: Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 11:58=20 AM
Subject: LF: LF 136

Last night I received a beacon on= 136khz, but my=20 sreen was to slow, because I wrote PA3CPM.
Who was the other beacon? transmitt= ed from 0150=20 until 0715 UTC on 136.32 khz
 
vy 73 Veit


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G - www.avg.com
Version: 8.= 5.435 / Virus=20 Database: 271.1.1/2676 - Release Date: 02/08/10=20 19:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CAA987.5E0BC830-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.137]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI041-eac24b75a75b30f; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:09:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AFDD638000091; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:09:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0rS-0004l6-PG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0rS-0004kx-4I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0rP-0004Uv-D6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:30 +0000 Received: by pxi27 with SMTP id 27so1668704pxi.4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:07:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=RuOzVONog6t6FTj1vGnubC1SllIYzp+5/pmrGamDfQg=; b=dbPVMrmlXjObAU9BJU0cDaWo1V9R5/ooNsP4ulwswsCZszq1Ij3Bde8Mdkcum0o21/ bRKhcuE52mfuML7ebUJA+lfVjLnaw2qz2ssuzfs4yTakpvZh3nrFKzIpPEk8oBh8wINc w/nW5yUj3LL8aPfmaMx5ltcEtcGMAM1TtxoqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=kAATbdRRv9KztCzsbPdM3Lpy96PyXBNXlDG8I1cVFAWs1VRMWddZrP8XXXJNkKuoYF OiglOsswGo3DkQrA/CKEmyApg1R0Z4TH24YFoig6bLaJeiLnLqNRILm2l7wrVPHL1De6 R4GClN1AWj3naaj4uN2Y733s7ERTSpdEGuVXE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.23.11 with SMTP id a11mr1182486rvj.220.1266001638632; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:07:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:07:18 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: f385e4b41ebf269d Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m243.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d054b75a75854fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was mos= t enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QS= O) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > >> Hi Rog >> >> >> >> Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode >> >> >> >> If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on >> it and click decode >> >> >> >> When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter th= ese >> in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right han= d >> side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 >> >> >> >> If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4thme= ssages and 73s after each is how I see it. >> >> >> >> CQ is message 6 >> >> >> >> A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he >> will burn you at the stake!! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> With best regards >> >> >> >> >> >> *Jim* >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. James Cowburn >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: >> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn >> *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR >> >> >> >> Gary/Jim/Jim, >> >> Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedure= s >> used please? Must give this a try too. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz >> wrote: >> >> Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, >> >> Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: >> >> 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 >> 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 >> 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 >> 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 >> 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 >> 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 >> 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 >> >> And Jim: >> >> 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 >> 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR >> 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 >> >> Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! >> >> Cheers, Jim Moritz >> 73 de M0BMU >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" >> To: "LF Group (RSGB)" >> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM >> Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR >> >> Hi, >> >> If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonigh= t >> on >> 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. >> >> Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be >> welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger, Jim,

I find it slightly different to Jim's= description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see= a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click&quo= t; the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct= places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply= to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide= to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very= very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

You can find it at :-


Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wr= ote:
Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roge= r G3XBM


On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgi= n.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0<= /p>

Run the WSJT7 prog= ramme and select wspr mode

=A0<= /p>

If you receive a= signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0<= /p>

When you have call= sign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on ge= n stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for eac= h message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0<= /p>

If the sending sta= tion is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0<= /p>

CQ is message 6

=A0<= /p>

A lot quicker than= QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

With best regards<= /span>

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowburn<= /span>

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@bt= openworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Grou= p,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= /a>
http://www.g3x= bm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

--000e0cd20bc8f4aeef047f6bf995-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.74]) by air-me08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME083-8bbe4b83a92f305; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:08:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 79D5C3800008D; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:08:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjrgN-0000CE-5z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjrgM-0000C4-Qv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:58 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjrgJ-0001Sh-UG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:07:58 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYA0039EHH10B@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:07:50 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:07:45 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <719025E2F8CA4B78A4D980E73A84AF07@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XKO 23-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Ud9gE00FnBoX4tAOZzQQpQ)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55398 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404a4b83a92d11d9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Ud9gE00FnBoX4tAOZzQQpQ) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg)" --Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi LF, Capture XKO Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XKO 23-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_cA8stmkTkCbKMu76PT/sbg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi LF,
Capture XKO
Henny pa3cpm
73s
 
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XKO 23-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:39:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C7FB38000064; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCxO-0003aZ-4V for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCxN-0003aQ-ED for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:09 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCxM-0003Kg-2d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:09 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207193801.CMMP4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:38:01 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCxF-0007sD-CQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:01 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:37:59 -0000 Message-ID: <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoKk7xybIBRHwEQWutA5M/5PX99AAApywg X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=bPV2uaBrCK0c115Nj8QA:9 a=bfhroMDTb8PZ_XGGuqx58fesD_wA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ytwkUWg1-ORZ-iBWLQIA:9 a=lHFy1Sf3KwxkPOe2n-AA:7 a=ZJmeKzaigKTr_H82xKQvqsteSl8A:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41144b6f16f527ef X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mod= e tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal freq= uency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CAA82D.0E257150-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC083-86544b82697b139; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 089F33800010F; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:24:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNf-0000UH-62 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWNe-0000U8-Lv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjWNc-0000WY-8B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:23:14 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356B551C002 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8324F3862 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:23:01 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:20:37 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_8201175==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b826979683d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan, what about "going underground". I do remind an article on communication via some=20 kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?)=20 trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to=20 put up antennas within the sight of the enemy). If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used. Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this=20 :=20 http://www.rexresearch.com/= rogers/1rogers.htm=20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote: >Hello Horst, > >That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to=20 >find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km)=20 >;-), that would be an interesting field to test. > >Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna=20 >configurations for that range and got the idea=20 >that one could use a forrest as an antenna=20 >tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of=20 >wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need=20 >to have that area beside your house. Nobody will=20 >see the wire and nobody will care about it. >Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop=20 >antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with=20 >excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m.=20 >The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above=20 >ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with=20 >my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on=20 >2200m without a problem but with bad ODX=20 >results, of course. But if one would try 2x=20 >10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... > >JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > >What is your RX antenna and have you already=20 >catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >73, Stefan > >PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > >---------- >Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >Hallo Stefan, > >there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S.=20 >1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free. > >I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA=20 >and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that. > >So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need= one. > >There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. > >Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >Horst >___________________________________________________________ >NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ --=====================_8201175==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Stefan,

what about "going underground".
I do remind an article on communication via some kind of ground antennas in the WW1 (or WW2 ?) trenches (I guess it wasn't very convenient to put up antennas within the sight of the enemy).
If I recall it right quite low frequencies were used.
Googling on "ground antenna war" resulted in this : http://www.rexresearch.com/rogers/1rogers.htm

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 10:32 22/02/2010, you wrote:
Hello Horst,=
 
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.
 
Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...
 
JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
 
What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
 
73, Stefan
 
PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS

Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
--=====================_8201175==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE012-5ea34b6897a4393; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:22:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 84464380000AC; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQBd-0007Zk-AD for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcQBc-0007Zb-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:28 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcQBa-0002Fs-2Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:21:28 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsAGAM8laEtOkCwr/2dsb2JhbACNFAOGM8U1hEUE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,393,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282023522" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.144.44.43]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 21:21:18 +0000 Message-ID: <007401caa44d$a36bf9c0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <006a01caa448$ffca2980$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:21:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: PA0HTT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b68979d5d43 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and another PA1JT=20 G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: mal hamilton=20 To: rsgb=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: LF: PA0HTT New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not too strong in QSO mode mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
and another PA1JT
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
To: rsgb
Sent: Tuesday, February 02,= 2010 8:47=20 PM
Subject: LF: PA0HTT

New one tonite on 500 cw PA0HTT not= too strong in=20 QSO mode
 
mal/g3kev
= ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01CAA44D.A32DDF50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC103-86564b85489e1d8; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ABD4D380000C1; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:41:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJKr-0005jI-34 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJKq-0005j9-Im for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:36 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJKo-0004xO-Lf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:36 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1OFdUZu003513 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:39:31 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B17@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B17@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XtrVOstxxtzYQky2OMjZDpYmwgAB/0bJ References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.24.153053 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB567.8EAA01F8" Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55453 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b85489c78b7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB567.8EAA01F8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Alexander,=20 Let us see what will happen if you cancel out that 100nF Cp:=20 The overall C in the circuit is the C of the antenna, 1nF, so you need abo= ut 100* the L before. If we assume now, the resistance of L is 100 Ohm, th= e overall resistance in the circuit is abt 1100 Ohm. Applying the same pow= er than before (Pin=3D1,1W (ground+coil loss before)) will give a current= of 32mA =3Dsqrt(10) * I antenn before and thus the "radiated" signal is= 10 dB stronger than before, although the coil losses are 100* more, right= ?=20 73, Stefan/DK7FC=20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Mi 24.02.2010 22:35 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems >=20 > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter= , > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3D3= .2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB062-a6ff4b8256db2df; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:05:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E5AC738000091; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjV90-0000GY-JN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjV90-0000GP-1I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjV8w-0008O9-9a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:04:02 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1503570bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:03:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2A8Ch3zSDYFB5YxfRz3Z6acGL/yL34oFificXN/RHo4=; b=FUSFsqAR3Yj3ohhj8wIIYlIWMdIuHVmHzJQPVCBR/iwsNNc1zPphgzRRi80m1ziwRM eusi7NEeQmSqHgeUzJwWaegrw+n2eDUCPj3fcPuAvdLqdP8B8VxdZ+/TWnufjFiKSdtj jj/p+MsTUArtBkvDf92vLF8CG3umRyyzBbFNo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZKuhrK4MAfGb8Y6oC9NSDpDuHK5CmRnnZMM5J/SGsTwarMF/kLaY8RGBn06Qj8oepW n09mDMvr9GQErK+T967LZl83fQ08KGgTE5AnDUg0gxpZ5ZuN8BUE789M2nytTOmgI/+c zGP2Ly/knhMARtqtvZFXmYIhBCqzAxVlxDvbM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.132 with SMTP id k4mr537549bka.174.1266833031374; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:03:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:03:51 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d243.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b8256d96f03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably th= e best "antenna". There are references to how these work in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the internet= I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Hello Horst, > > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs= in > the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. > > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that > range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. > There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You > do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wir= e > and nobody will care about it. > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on > my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has > 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m= to > 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a > problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*= 100m > on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... > > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF > stations in that range? Are there some? > > 73, Stefan > > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > > > > Hallo Stefan, > > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range > <9kHz is free. > > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a > letter which confirmed that. > > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need > one. > > There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. > > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > > Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0003255550ced329a904802d8c37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are prob= ably the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these wo= rk in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, avail= able on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0.
=A0
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern= signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz= (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of= kms.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM


=A0
2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer &l= t;schaefer@hst.tu-darmstad= t.de>
Hello Horst,

That sound= s really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near= field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower.= There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
<= br>What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One= can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.201= 0 09:29
An: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.= 79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in= Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.
I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a= letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do no= t need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like ban= dwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
____________________________= _______________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/=






--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot= .com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk=
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0003255550ced329a904802d8c37-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE043-5eb04b88005530f; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:09:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9712238000429; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:09:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3fU-00070T-4g for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:08:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl3fT-00070K-F0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:59 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl3fQ-0007JJ-Rf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:59 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so269294bwz.4 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:07:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2LJH/oXK+lJQz7LCFlBNlRlchH7rtLGS5qjU746ybYY=; b=ewHixG/Z+qS/JpFL3IfK8s6TXR3yO2kSiMFhvQvvn2YjFSs0RmLX8FxIlGWiiSTF0I 3fAAK8tAp3vwzMmtw3Y8Zc8fm03C5kKw6wFHtvaevOXnZqrQgeFcOcIOHvRt6Syo1NaG TDEJvuglccd77frixTv1eY0OJCWZO66riE5JM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=g3CieNmSpS3XtoWxdk/kAlGTUrzJYVi2dAW81UprOPXIawwgd6cv12rVMT1rnItkSX sigxr/890sUOa4D+ym9Y6KEp6Aa8iaHVlvCmIr80/gURX/R2qNEidMipMLuW4e+CPXJt u3W8RitF5QbZKrL4oQX6bgyWZ20RURZzf7k/A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.38.77 with SMTP id a13mr507654bke.26.1267204069741; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:07:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:07:49 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002260907k56b21a49p386d43b0be234436@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a3166f5680048083f040 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m273.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b88005341ad X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a3166f5680048083f040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Two questions...* (1) *Does anyone know how modes like WSPR behave with signals buried deep in impulsive noise like sferics?* It seems that most of the natural noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-made noise is another matter. Perhaps there are certain modulation types that are well suited to get through for this sort of impulsive noise? I am no expert so have no idea but would value the views of people like Andy. (2) *Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonable that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiated, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference?* We all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field signals can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (local) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pipe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs. 73s Roger G3XBM On 26 February 2010 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov wrote: > > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > > > Dear LF, > > > > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise background > at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regular > LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on > LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend only > little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and > placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived at a > background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB > kTo). > > Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for > industrial noise. > > > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to > > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. > > Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical > study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics > noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory > assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional > filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one > should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is > very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my > web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is > very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 > kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. > But i don't test it. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555a3166f5680048083f040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two questions...

(1) Does anyone know how modes like WSPR= behave with signals buried deep in impulsive noise like sferics? It= seems that most of the natural noise at <9kHz is of this nature. Man-m= ade noise is another matter. Perhaps there are certain modulation types th= at are well suited to get through for this sort of impulsive noise? I am= no expert so have no idea but would value the views of people like Andy.<= br>
(2) Regarding OFCOM and NoV permits for <9kHz is it not reasonab= le that they should have some overview of any transmissions (radiat= ed, conducted or inducted) which could be sources of interference? We= all appreciate that the radiated energy will be tiny, but near-field sign= als can be a significant interference source and over a considerable (loca= l) distance at these very low frequencies. A most basic example could be= interference to telephone, inductive loop audio systems, hi-fi or even pi= pe tracing systems. If any interference did occur, OFCOM would have some= leads for investigation. It is not as if they are charging for NoVs.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 26 February 20= 10 19:51, Alexander S. Yurkov <fitec@omskcity.com> wrote:
> Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
>
> Dear LF,
>
> sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise backgr= ound at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regula= r LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated= on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend on= ly little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging= and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived= at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to= 142 dB kTo).

Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obviou= s for
industrial noise.

> Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential= to
> maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception.

Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theore= tical
study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics
noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional
filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one<= br> should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my web page www.qsl.ne= t/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is
very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on= 9
kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me.=
But i don't test it.

Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB







--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555a3166f5680048083f040-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.213]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB032-a21d4b8ac2632ae; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:22:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BC22C380000A6; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:22:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlohP-0000M8-FZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlohO-0000Lz-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlohM-0001JM-E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:06 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1252512bwz.4 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:20:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ugbVIlsMkI5sjm76ZgnI2t5z9TDqkjKEM1WpX1BL49w=; b=T2Ucl2jGvBx9Jve8AGapRGi9fpYeqFCAHuJ8k9oQvVo39CWrd7ZCV3lGwCP4fRty/J tTJFcYInWJsYsawbMgGIsI52j2TBdi35j62sZt2R19wqVxKsyx5ziiUJDEGfGJSkNk3E GewmcdD1fnpapICXUGRiBraCSPTS40fmZkATU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=DXalHYfmv39x94mTBFhBNFYGSNZHXEwBK0QfLDH6j9mZe5HODGy5oPyZR3gsgLUFuj v3sNnC9JYqzVtP2q0BiBiS3CJPn4F7C50rBCA42vIUJNy2fQLckJcOMeRzY3MFrDrnnb 2IN/UQNrUixuqOk/iyVDEg202PWtz/vy4luKI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.48.202 with SMTP id s10mr2331735bkf.34.1267384853647; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:20:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <9afca2641002280939uee04262gebe0e4b67b5b6607@mail.gmail.com> <003201cab8a5$fac09480$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:20:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002281120h9184aeeg71f65a50b796f219@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d226.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d54b8ac2612522 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mal, If people wish to experiment and find out for themselves how well, or indeed how badly, an amateur VLF system works then what is wrong with that? Even you must agree that it is by experimenting that we learn. The discussion on the <9kHz subject has opened our eyes to the real possibility that at least some well equipped stations really could work over 100kms. You are probably one of the best equipped LF stations in the UK, so why don't YOU have a go below 9kHz and share your experiences with us all? I am sure many in the UK would appreciate this. What is more you would almost certainly add a few more firsts to your impressive list. 73s Roger G3XBM On 28 February 2010 18:42, mal hamilton wrote: > Roger > Most of those talking/dreaming about 9 kcs cannot get a signal out beyond > their own back yard on 500 or 137 so it would be FOOLISH for those persons > to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON. > Have you noticed the BIG players on LF/MF are not contermplating joining > the Dreamers. > G3KEV > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Roger Lapthorn > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Marcus et al, > > Good luck to all those experimenting below 9kHz. I intend to have a go > myself shortly but running modest powers. I don't expect great DX but will > be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS or WSPR beacon. Even a few kms > will be fun. > > Mal enjoys making a complete fool of himself and has few constructive > comments to make about anything. Most here just ignore his inane comments > and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologists would put it down to attention > seeking. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester wrote: > >> Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views, we >> definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement. >> >> And, best of all, it's fun. >> >> Best 73, >> Markus, DF6NM >> >> >> *From:* tim hague >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday >> >> Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking >> forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this >> from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur >> community. >> >> Tim M0AFJ >> mal hamilton wrote: >> > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an >> > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be >> > broken without the KITE, >> > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. >> > >> > G3KEV >> > ..... >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

If people wish to experiment and find out for themselves how= well, or indeed how badly, an amateur VLF system works then what is wrong= with that? Even you must agree that it is by experimenting that we learn.=

The discussion on the <9kHz subject has opened our eyes to the real= possibility that at least some well equipped stations really could work= over 100kms. You are probably one of the best equipped LF stations in the= UK, so why don't YOU have a go below 9kHz and share your experiences= with us all? I am sure many in the UK would appreciate this. What is more= you would almost certainly add a few more firsts to your impressive list.=

73s
Roger G3XBM



On 28 Feb= ruary 2010 18:42, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:
Roger
Most of those talking/dreaming about= 9 kcs cannot=20 get a signal out beyond their own back yard on 500 or 137 so=A0it would be= =20 FOOLISH for those persons to attempt 9 kcs but DREAM ON.
Have you noticed the BIG players on= LF/MF are not=20 contermplating joining the Dreamers.
G3KEV
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:39=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF TX expe= riments=20 this sunday

Marcus et al,

Good luck to all those experimenting= below=20 9kHz. I intend to have a go myself shortly but running modest powers. I= don't=20 expect great DX but will be intrigued to see how far I get with a QRSS= or WSPR=20 beacon. Even a few kms will be fun.

Mal enjoys making a complete= fool=20 of himself and has few constructive comments to make about anything. Mos= t here=20 just ignore his inane comments and feel rather sorry for him. Psychologi= sts=20 would put it down to attention seeking.

73s
Roger G3XBM=20



On 28 February 2010 17:00, Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>=20 wrote:
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing hi= s views, we definitely see=20 his=A0interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
=A0
And, best of all,=A0it's fun.=
=A0
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
=A0

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday

Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like th= is=20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater ama= teur=20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill=20 top and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS= face=20 his direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
&g= t; Do=20 not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>=A0=20
> G3KEV
>=A0 .....

=

--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM=20 =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL=20 G11088



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555bd7efed33e0480ae0731-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA022-b4f44b74727325a; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 00DDB380001EB; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgID-0001gL-Tn for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfgID-0001gC-GL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from mout5.freenet.de ([195.4.92.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfgIB-00058e-W8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:09:45 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.27] (helo=17.mx.freenet.de) by mout5.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1NfgIA-000463-TV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:42 +0100 Received: from p57af2fbb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.175.47.187]:1202 helo=2a2d7ed321c6425) by 17.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NfgIA-0002Fw-An for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:42 +0100 From: "Beckmann, Gerhard" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:09:41 +0100 Message-ID: <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcqrWvY7fEZTacuNTHm6G5o+jFZeOAAAyguA X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4b7472702161 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Gary, please find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR 2056 -22 0.0 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 2100 -23 0.9 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0 2104 -23 1.1 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 vy 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI ==== _____ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2010 21:41 An: LF Group (RSGB) Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Gary,

 

ple= ase find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR

 

2056 -22 = 0.0   0.503600  0 07/G4WGT 0<= /p>

2100 -23 = 0.9   0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0

2104 -23 = 1.1   0.503600  0 07/G4WGT 0<= /p>

 

vy 73 de Gerhar= d  //  DK6NI

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Donnerstag,= 11. Februar 2010 21:41
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kH= z WSPR

 

Hi,

 

If there is someone interested out there I am= running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.=

 

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports= & replies/calls will be welcome.

 

73, Gary - G4WGT.

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CAAB66.E9E20C80-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-mc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC043-a9314b75d41dcd; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:20:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B341D3800054D; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:20:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng3qI-0005ZF-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng3qH-0005Z6-Sh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:29 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng3qE-0005ZB-N6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:29 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212221820.IFVF4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:20 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng3q2-0004RO-St for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:17 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:18:14 -0000 Message-ID: <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcqsGwAl4sO3OstgTjmmBJOm4elIAAAFfv6A In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=6kBdgzSWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=ZxbN8ogpbp7sA2GTVe8A:9 a=9Vl3Ww7Fl9mXB4FpqaUA:7 a=2aOONDRravpDNxyESDf05fs4WM8A:4 a=RD7mwgYT05wA:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=29tjHgOh2kJkrCvN:21 a=pySfBNegEntfSvDy:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=bh8EJB0D1xs0bMDI7iMA:9 a=oXrVuhQWOiYwbE_vaY4A:7 a=--amzK8ww3JvKa1UzVI_c6w8THEA:4 a=aIpYgvReAufkhJZb:21 a=vT917SRXCEcREfBk:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b75d41b695b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gary I got multiple decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail. I saw you'd gone QRT so I'm back on 502.4 We will have to try again another evening With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn E james.cowburn@virgin.net _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Jim, We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrote: A bozo I will be!! _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 12 February 2010 19:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Roger, Jim, I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode. You can find it at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Gary

 

I got multiple= decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail.   I saw you= 217;d gone QRT so I’m back on 502.4

 

We will have to= try again another evening

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

E james.cowburn@virgin.net

 =

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:38
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Jim,

 

We are all "Bozo's" at some point= in time :-))

 

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonig= ht ?

 

73, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <= james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be!!

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 12 February 2010= 19:07


To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Roger, Jim,

 

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign= in the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is whic= h Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.

 

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR= 2 way (QSO) mode.

 

You can find it at :-

 

 

Cheers, Ga= ry - G4WGT.

 

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

 

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7 programme= and select wspr mode

 

If you receive a signal= in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have callsign= and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the ri= ght hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5

 

If the sending station= is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4t= h messages and 73s after each is how I see it.<= /p>

 

CQ is message 6

 

A lot quicker than QRSS= but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Script";color:n= avy;font-weight:bold'>Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapt= horn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088




--

http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0185_01CAAC31.457C00D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-md04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD044-8b834b75e7d3e5; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:44:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5485B380003C4; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng5A2-0005j9-AR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng5A1-0005j0-9I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:57 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f191.google.com ([209.85.216.191]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng59x-0005vF-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:57 +0000 Received: by pxi29 with SMTP id 29so1808108pxi.1 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:42:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=sDAZ5w4iIgBDzE7hod2xnOO631jvG8w9m5D2djILE/8=; b=surkKDPud/8mdbLi65/xVOKcD9mqxHko3s8hwLIxHm6dhQifez9CfDHA6iDJG4aYJm 4TRMLJySJtNEhKiGXmgF3i/ki4fq2/5Wref6AKqSQquM5VUAi5Dia7PPXMhfBLikddL+ CvHZ6xdIYRwZurNX2oI8JmLw4pbEnalPfEx7U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=p1Cdm0w4plnInin7acCIOhXr4TWumdqWrYyp8YGq4a8mK+2WD8vSENbRit3VeQMSpB n1IHNid44ow1tj1u8f6K0O24vJaVjX66pJevv6q/DhnkdMWqV1Y9fQBwvfxab6A75Zbk vSTCbZTsiiV6fd5GcJH1wJ7WyhufZIv5il2W8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.2.7 with SMTP id e7mr1432629rvi.16.1266018160683; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:42:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> <9afca2641002120712o56a541aepc0cefccef181f789@mail.gmail.com> <1f0624b91002121107u5a99f7ccib42fb0574caec67b@mail.gmail.com> <015901caac17$683af500$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002121137t5134dbf1l5db8f44418d3e33a@mail.gmail.com> <018401caac31$457c00d0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:42:40 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2b7dc019e3dcdfc3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002121542t470b34f2u84ce1792e6870730@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d276.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b75e7d0320d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim, I saw your signal trace good enough for a decode but nothing, I think you are late due to PC clock error. Yes, we will try again, I am sure we can make the QSO. Cheers es Good Night, Just off to bed. Gary. On 12 February 2010 22:18, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > I got multiple decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replie= d > but to no avail. I saw you=92d gone QRT so I=92m back on 502.4 > > > > We will have to try again another evening > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > E james.cowburn@virgin.net > > ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:38 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Jim, > > > > We are all "Bozo's" at some point in time :-)) > > > > Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ? > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > A bozo I will be!! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 12 February 2010 19:07 > > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Roger, Jim, > > > > I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while= in > monitor mode or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need= to > do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sig= n in > the correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is wh= ich > Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu. > > > > I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was= most > enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way= (QSO) > mode. > > > > You can find it at :- > > > > http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm > > > > Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: > > Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn wrot= e: > > Hi Rog > > > > Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode > > > > If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click= on > it and click decode > > > > When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter the= se > in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand > side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 > > > > If the sending station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th me= ssages > and 73s after each is how I see it. > > > > CQ is message 6 > > > > A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as= he > will burn you at the stake!! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn > *Sent:* 11 February 2010 22:58 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Gary/Jim/Jim, > > Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures > used please? Must give this a try too. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz > wrote: > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: > > 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 > 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 > 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 > 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 > 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 > > And Jim: > > 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 > 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR > 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 > > Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" > To: "LF Group (RSGB)" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM > Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > Hi, > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > --000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

I saw your signal trace good enough for a decod= e but nothing, I think you are late due to PC clock error.

<= /div>
Yes, we will try again, I am sure we can make the QSO.

Cheers es Good Night,

Just off to= bed.

Gary.

On= 12 February 2010 22:18, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wro= te:

Hi Gary

=A0

I got multiple= decodes of your CQ all around the -12dB mark and I replied but to no avail. =A0=A0I saw you=92d gone QRT= so I=92m back on 502.4

=A0

We will have to= try again another evening

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

E james.cowburn@virgin.n= et=

=A0=

=A0

Jim,

=A0

We are all "Bozo's" at some point in= time :-))

=A0

Are you wanting to try WSPR 2 way again tonight ?<= /span>

=A0

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 12 February 2010 19:13, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@vir= gin.net> wrote:

A bozo I will be= !!

=A0

=A0

=A0

Roger, Jim,

=A0

I find it slightly different to Jim's description in such that if while in monitor mode= or calling CQ you see a station's call decoded all you need to do is "double click" the callsign & the software will place the call sign in th= e correct places in the message boxes. All you need to know then is which Tx reply to use. There is a guide in the "help" menu.=

=A0

I found that the "The Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" was most enlightening. The JT65A mode is very very similar to JT4A & WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode.

=A0

You can find it at :-

=A0

=A0

Cheers, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

On 12 February 2010 15:12, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Jim. We'll have to give this a go next week.

73s
Roger G3XBM

=A0

On 11 February 2010 23:19, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Rog

=A0

Run the WSJT7 pr= ogramme and select wspr mode

=A0

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

=A0

When you have ca= llsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right= hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5

=A0

If the sending= station is =93going first=94 then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it.

=A0

CQ is message 6<= /span>

=A0

A lot quicker th= an QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

Gary/Jim/Jim,

Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures= used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202 =A013 =A0 0 -0.5 =A0 =A0-6 =A00 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83
213602 =A010 =A0-2 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
213602 =A016 =A0 4 -0.2 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214002 =A013 =A0 4 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> S1
214402 =A016 =A0-1 -0.5 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G4WGT> R S6
214402 =A017 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A0 6 =A00 =A0G7NKS IO92 20
214802 =A013 =A0 0 -0.3 =A0 =A0-5 =A00 =A073 DE G4WGT IO83

And Jim:

221002 =A010 =A0 4 -0.4 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0M0BMU <G7NKS> S2
221402 =A010 =A0 4 =A00.0 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802 =A0 9 =A0 5 -0.5 =A0 =A031 =A00 =A073 DE G7NKS IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk>=
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight= on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

=A0




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--

http://g3xbm-= qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.u= k
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd11886bf2c1c047f6fd237-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.82]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD011-8b744b756ff0272; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:12:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8C4BD38000367; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:12:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxAd-0004GX-V2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfxAd-0004GO-IN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfxAa-0002pp-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:11:03 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so530935bwz.31 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=axZqepaeNe2BdziD2PTzXXUWBe+r12fXVyiqoj1SMqg=; b=WnGDrbeENAhkboUsrWooBQHWdnrOVwwQnjXW5+1yn0Zk//o2IUE2vQsawd0juyOl5C WYxDnbGJZFdf59rjpC7Kg4BP25r/NmlGGBce+fYi2Qfva2azLG6EMgNdRwyapt/R7yg2 dYihy9mYe53fKQyikl4AD7gCMx7c8GxaqfKUU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vQuzEL1f+oCMQ7B82otJz1MOkrpO0ga5VmmzkD0/SCH5S/dHcfqHSruEudMNWmJK/2 lHN+Gh0jPG/xNoTO/wOaJCvPGR1eAk8W3zJJISh9FTQtxiG2RYer61d8U7sdBUu4Lh7/ ihn+Kxam2O9PUIGqINkrW6r7Fe863lHMR1RoQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.26.198 with SMTP id f6mr949583bkc.13.1265987453774; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002120710y2dbc864dle204b2d733339c03@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m267.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60524b756fe96750 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Not quite Jim. I'd like a QSO next week please when my grandson goes home and I get my shack back! 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 23:18, James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF group, > > Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now, > as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in > this mode ;-) > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not quite Jim. I'd like a QSO next week please when my grandson goes= home and I get my shack back!

73s Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 23:18, James Moritz &l= t;james.moritz@btopenworld= .com> wrote:
Dear LF group,<= br>
Thanks to Gary and Jim for the QSOs - Have stopped calling CQ inWSPR now,= as I seem to have exhausted the current possibilities for QSO partners in= this mode ;-)

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU





--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--000325554b2e78ecb5047f68ac0e-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME031-8ba84b899bb544; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:24:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0646D38000086; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlV4i-00045z-Cq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlV4h-00045q-Qq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:51 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlV4e-0007Ad-WD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:23:51 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1RMNj4Y027759 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:45 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:46 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:23:46 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B24@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B24@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Thread-Index: Acq3u4rUHkkdJblZQz+Vs0zD9g2xmQAOqQfQ References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B20@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4B892F0B.9040604@freenet.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.220928 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9" Subject: AW: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55594 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b899bb350e8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wolf and tnx for informing others, =20 After a talk with Markus/DF6NM and further thoughts abt the actual configu= ration it may be difficult to get a success tomorrow:=20 =20 The coil has a Q of just 38 (that i have measured/calculated). So it has= an "internal" R of abt 150 Ohm @ 8,9kHz. With that coil it will not be po= ssible to get 20kV (abt 650mA into the wire) on the wire unless my PA won'= t give 2kW and it won't. So the ERP will be lower. Also, it is not sure if Bernd/DF8ZR (closest distance RX stn as it seems)= can arrange his equipment until tmw. Anyway, i will get up tomorrow early in the morning and try to built that= PA. Additionally i try to build quickly an antenna current meter with a= high =B5 ferrit core (current transformer). So, the current and ERP and= earth losses could be calculated. Maybe a confirmation of that what we ha= ve discussed in the last days (changes of earth resistance from 137 to 9= kHz...).=20 First i will just do some resonating tests. Bringing the wire to resonance= , matching it to the PA. Trying to get the power coupled into the HV coil. It will be a first step to built up that station, although it might be pos= sible that it won't come up completely, there will be some results that sh= ows what to do next and to improve.=20 I have built such an earth loss measuring bridge before some years (if i= remember correctly it is from EI0CF/G3YNK) and will try to find the R and= C for 9kHz with this antenna, although the ferrite cores might be not opt= imal at those low frequencies. =20 Markus/DF6NM will be on the phone and i will inform him when i am ready to= transmit. He gave me the hint that it is an idea not to transmit exactly= at 8,9 but thater at 8,97kHz, due to the harmonics of 50Hz and 16 2/3 Hz= (german railway f), although these may be not to strong any more. He will= spot the QRG and if i am transmitting here. Now i plan it on 8,9700kHz.= =20 =20 Maybe there will be no reception from anyone on my first test since there= seems to be no one QRV in a radius of 10...20km but if i know the earth= losses and the actual voltage at the wire at a given power (measured, not= theoretically calculated) i will be happy. But maybe it will be much bett= er than just thought... =20 Until next week, i try to get a proper coil in the region of 0,5H, so that= no parallel C will be needed... =20 Ok, so, cu there... =20 73 es gn es gl, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Wolfgang B=FCscher Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 15:41 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Hi Stefan, Thanks for the proposals, and the boost of activity. I have passed on a few notes to the yahoo VLF group, so if you have more details about the kite antenna experiments (or even a schedule) please let us know. RX equipment (SDR-IQ and Perseus, plus various active antennas) already geared up here; and even the 'quiet RX location' (DF0WD / DK4U) is accessable by car again, since the snow disappeared. It may be a bit optimistic to expect reception here in JO42FD, but who knows... Cheers, Wolf . Stefan Sch=E4fer schrieb: > Dear group, >=20 > It seems that there are interesting theoretical questions to answer. And= we, the practical interested's, could do this by trying that. Anyway if= it is over 10km or 200km... Maybe we'll get some nice surprises... >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7FB.873AD9D9 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAIQAAAEFXOiBBVzogTEY6IFJlOiA5 a0h6IG5vaXNlIGxldmVsAL0JAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABsAFwAXAC4ABgBgAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAb ABcAFwAuAAYAYAEBCYABACEAAAA5OUQ2QkIyQjgzMTJDOTQ2ODEwNTlCNjIwQkQ5MzQ0QwAWBwED kAYAGBgAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDZ2TqH+7fKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEA AAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyNzIyMjM0NlotMTIxNgAA AB4ASQABAAAAIQAAAFJlOiBBVzogTEY6IFJlOiA5a0h6IG5vaXNlIGxldmVsAAAAAEAATgCAd+7p urfKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVlcC5vcmcAAAIBWwAB AAAAYwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tz aGVlcC5vcmcAU01UUABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVwAAQAA 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from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-ma07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA071-b52c4b6feb8a319; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:46:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 49DA4380001C4; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 05:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeR7P-0008MW-JM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeR7P-0008MN-98 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeR7M-0000DQ-TJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:45:27 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88B934C816F for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:45:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 676BB4C817B for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:45:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6FEB3D.1010509@online.fr> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:45:17 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> In-Reply-To: <69A12737C72449AE85E9D10D57A73407@ns94d01ae4d850> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: LF T/A [137kHz] VO1NA WD2XKO last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b6feb891479 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Henny , Joe , Good copy of VO1NA and WD2XKO last night ( see on my grabber ) 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj henny van elst a =E9crit : > Hi Joe,traces vo1na,I was transmiting on the same time,so I mist the fir= st signs. > henny cpm > 73s > =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.202]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA101-85ec4b6f11fe1eb; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:18:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15FBC3800008C; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:18:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCdS-0003Qy-CE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeCdS-0003Qo-0p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:34 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeCdO-0002vL-RN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:17:33 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2422099pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:17:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=eCYInQvGjWsxoBaJ38oS8nR8ni26879dsRc929wZb1s=; b=bK0rjFrClj6m2HzdR2qpLtZ84dFjjHQ2SXseY6f3gXiMsBI5jZk6/GvoUc07Cvd6eI iWEiiaTLuloXSpHWB5dsfk1FcJX0TAFfRpd/+VfcldQuERgAiv5zBJFc8FdumpPsCI8S da5idJ3MefIKlR0Zr9DON8CDrw1hFfw+X8o+o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=MQsDt/wIxyMvYxzA/fPuOEsS0Nu52AgdklBSdRcPJ90hwOLwVCnoIH8q8rQgaqW8Fs rDdudjYJpBaqzIz407eT2kLYHTtRXlXQX6TrNLk1lkyWDBM3snsS2dUHdsRrIR9ZMt53 i32xcTimVaftxOFVXUfUFWDTHnH5nTRhU+62M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.247.15 with SMTP id u15mr3789852rvh.166.1265570242002; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:17:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:17:21 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bfea377c43c128b3 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: "LF Group (RSGB)" DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ca4b6f11fc5da7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. --000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi LF,

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode= tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=
Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT= 4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

<= /div>
73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.


=A0
--000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC102-862e4b8aa1948f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:02:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 48E2B380000BF; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlmVt-0006pI-Jq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlmVt-0006p9-20 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlmVr-0000TK-14 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.70]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SH0rQg003199 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:00:53 -0500 Received: from White (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id A1ECCE000082 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:00:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:00:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29464b8aa14227cd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8aa192325c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragem= ent. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am lookin= g forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like= this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the great= er amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for= an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be= =20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
 
And, best of all, it's fun.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday
=
Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like th= is from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur= =20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face= his=20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
>= Do not=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>  >=20 G3KEV
>  .....
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b673648340; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:15:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7047A380005D4; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2et-0002l5-9F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2es-0002kw-TS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:06 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2er-0001Jg-GJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:06 +0000 Received: from COL122-W35 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:13:56 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:13:57 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2010 20:13:56.0751 (UTC) FILETIME=[155271F0:01CAA37B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_" Subject: LF: 500kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b6736464c8f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_" --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1= e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrova= t =3D --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_-- --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100201_G3KEV.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAvAo0DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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/9k= --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-mf08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF084-8bf84b7280122f3; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:44:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 44E4638000144; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:44:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf96X-000634-NO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf96X-00062v-Cx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml109.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nf96V-0000Lt-6q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML109.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:43:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3B673C42ABD24E9897F0EA5CD2C53890@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:43:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2010 09:43:25.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E26C8A0:01CAAA35] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: swl 136 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b7280116a17 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey, tu for the nice capture, Henny cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:09 AM Subject: LF: swl 136 > Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, > > Captures last night: > > WD2XGJ > VO1NA > OE5ODL > G3XDV > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2678 - Release Date: 02/09/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-dd05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD053-865b4b8313872c7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:30:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D2A0238000127; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhi2-0006dk-2T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhi1-0006db-48 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:01 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njhhz-0006g8-GP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:01 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MNSulu003349 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:56 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:57 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:56 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B09@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B09@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaFAAJ2eR8AAP1kgQ== References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.232123 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55379 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b8313846789 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik,=20 Interesting! And if we think about the field pattern of such a ferrite rod= antenna it is even more interesting. Are you sure that there was no cross= -talk? =20 So, one could record a CW beacon message to a mp3-player in repeat mode an= d use an additional amplifier, say a 5...20W AF amplifier and a 12V batter= y. Yes, that my spontanous idea about that *smile*. That's an easy experim= ental beacon, not even expensive... =20 Placing this in the forrest, with 2x50m wire in a first step and grounded= at the end would be a next test for you, Rik? :-) Visit me in Heidelberg!= ;-)=20 BTW: The antenna could use a fixed L (better said 2 Ls) and could be broug= ht to resonance by the end C (e.g. the area of the aluminium foil)! The C= of such a dipole does not even have to be symmetric, i expect. If i would= have the equipment ready here i would start tomorrow in the morning :-) =20 Please support us with your results, Pete as well!! =20 73 es gn, Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 23:43 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de =20 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABcAAAAcADgAAgBQAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAXAAAAHAA5AAIAUQEB CYABACEAAABGMjE3M0Y4QTQ3RjhGMjRCODJCRjFCQUEyNTZFQTZCNQBgBwEDkAYA3EwAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQAyv8fNFrTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMzI4NTZaLTk2OAAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJFOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAA0fq+ErTKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njw64-0001Ec-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:48 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njw62-0003zL-3F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:48 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAOZ5g0tcGOlv/2dsb2JhbACNDgONenO9NoRsBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,526,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="298090015" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.233.111]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 14:50:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60894b83eb982ef4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs= . Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissio= ns but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the nove= lty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are stil= l going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fl= y by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,= tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would= appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Drea= mers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have= a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Generally band condx vy good at prese= nt from LF to=20 HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong= USA=20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of Amt= or, Pactor and=20 packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the=20 years.
Observations indicate that data mode= acty does not=20 last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SS= B and RTTY=20 are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty are= data but I am=20 referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all= the JT,=20 wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham operato= rs are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and th= e=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF belo= w 9 Kcs I will=20 listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
 
de G3KEV
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.134]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD072-86354b6926e5214; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:33:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE20238000247; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcZip-0001Ue-Hr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcZio-0001UV-UG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:22 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcZim-00052b-7z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 5881 invoked by uid 507); 3 Feb 2010 08:32:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2010 08:32:04 +0100 Message-ID: <201002030832060446.0C663C10@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:32:06 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40864b6926e3405e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 On 02/02/2010 at 18:30 mal hamilton wrote: >Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where >are the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! >I thought EU was progressive !! >G3KEV France doesn't have SRPs for 500, and the EU doesn't have an FCC (yet!) 73 John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF064-8bf04b6dc7571b8; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:47:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D644A38000254; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndqbf-0005zi-CY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndqbe-0005zZ-Nw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:14 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndqbc-0006QY-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:14 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E68240109 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:05 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:05 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6dc754434a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wantedHello Stefan,Roelof, for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The antenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the hei= ght between 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm= and a low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm= and higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m= to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I re= placed the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same poten= tial as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre change= s things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws 120= mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Nam= ens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast Hi Roelof, LF, Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question= ! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a si= gnal but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mas= t, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ver= y high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (g= ate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since= in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, when th= e case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal= C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to define= an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole?= And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly pla= ced on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium= foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm probl= em, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active anten= na mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were= vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element= since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So le= ss and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through= the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was= also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial,= even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pla= y with ;-) 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't= work=20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a= =20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted</TITLE= > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hello=20 Stefan,Roelof,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>for=20 about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The ante= nna is=20 placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height between= 2 m and 9=20 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low output,ra= ising it=20 to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and higher output,to pr= event im i=20 decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this= gives the=20 besr results.no detectable im from local mw stations and a good S/N ra= tio of=20 weak signals.As an experiment I replaced the steel pole for a glassfib= re=20 one,this didn't change any thing.This could be espected because of the= coax=20 cable you are always at the same potential as with a steel pole.Ofcour= se =20 using a battery and a glassfibre changes things but for me this is not= very=20 practical because my whip draws 120mA @ 28V.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hope=20 to hear more from your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>PA3FNY</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face= =3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>= Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47<BR><B>= Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> LF: active ant on= metallic=20 mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText11395 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Roelof= , LF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roelof, why do you think= that this is the=20 case? Interesting Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly"= it=20 assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not optimal. And wh= y could=20 this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that= is mounted=20 to a metallic mast, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against= the=20 environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i assume),= compared to=20 the active element (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a= better=20 coupling to qrm sources? I also have to make some measurements. The= antennas=20 we use are comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our expe= riences=20 :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A special question comes= up when a optic=20 fiber cable is used, since in a coax application there remains a hig= h C of the=20 ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is used (since= the=20 active element has just a few pF to the far field). That special que= stion is:=20 What will happen, when the case/ground electrode becomes small= against=20 the active element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Wil= l there be=20 a change in the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I= assume,=20 then, one has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will= it behave=20 as a short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active ant= enna that=20 is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting grou= nd plane,=20 e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignori= ng the=20 local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)?</FO= NT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On my new qth i made firs= t steps to=20 receive LF with the active antenna mounted just 2m above ground but= hung up on=20 a wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better= when=20 increasing the active element since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7),= but it=20 wasn't. The optimal length was still 30cm. That seems not only to be= =20 "sufficient" but rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffect= ed by the=20 hight above gnd?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think one has to imagin= e the E-Field=20 lines that are going through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems= just to be=20 very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be= found,=20 the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above grou= nd seems=20 to essencial, even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal= can be=20 compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of course.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What are your ideas to th= ese thoughts?=20 What do you think will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes smal= l against=20 the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C for both? Wi= ll the=20 electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Quest= ions over=20 Questions ;-) </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recently i had the idea= to test that with=20 a variable antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode= . That=20 will be interesting to play with ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73!! Stefan/DK7FC</FONT><= /DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im=20 Auftrag von Roelof Bakker<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 13:53<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B>= Re: LF:=20 AW: Re: test signal wanted<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Hello Stefan,<BR><BR>Probably a bit late, bit I ha= ve been told=20 that an active whip won't work <BR>well on a metalic mast.<BR>I= never=20 tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a <BR>= suitable=20 mast.<BR><BR>73,<BR>Roelof,=20 pa0rdt<BR><BR></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IgUTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANoHAgAGABQALgAA AAYAMQEBA5AGAPQDAAAeAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4A AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AAIB cQABAAAAIAAAAAHKpywc8q0oQVufKUO+mD2/SWyux34ABsKKAQAG9ncgAgEdDAEAAAAYAAAA U01UUDpWSUNUT1IxM0BPTkxJTkUuTkwACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAEz3AWWnygECAQoOAQAAABgA AAAAAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYMKAAAAeAEIQAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0 MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRUNARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsu dHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAACwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAOA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKF AAB9bgEAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOS4wAAsADYAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAAHgAOgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAg4UAAAEA AAATAAAAMzE0NDEzMTE5LTA2MDIyMDEwAAALADqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAA AAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwA9gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAG+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAAAAAAAMAcIAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYAIB +g8BAAAAEAAAAIPJBH7vvRNMpS0/QbL7MWACAfsPAQAAAJgAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgA KypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABEOlxEb2N1bWVudHMg YW5kIFNldHRpbmdzXFZpY3RvclxMb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5nc1xBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBEYXRhXE1p Y3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAAADIA AAA8QkRFTUtGQ05MTUlJTEdJRk5PTk5JRUlEREhBQS52aWN0b3IxM0BvbmxpbmUubmw+AAAA IcE= ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.80]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA074-86674b6cc2223d6; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7DAC438000197; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZCv-0000xY-Vj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZCv-0000xP-JF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <F4DTL@aol.com>) id 1NdZCt-0007xi-5L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o161BK4j022359 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:20 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c17.7583b3c8 (34935) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.170]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA048-b2524b6cc1a7e1; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:15 -0500 Received: from magic-d07.mail.aol.com (magic-d07.mail.aol.com [172.19.180.73]) by smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE036-b2524b6cc1a7e1; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:03 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:03 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40504b6cc220370b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary" --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=3Dr= ole_body bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7><F= ONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber)= </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman" PTSI= ZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT><FONT lan= g=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SANSS= ERIF"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV> <DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman= " PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000f= f size=3D3 face=3DArial PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B></I><A hr= ef=3D"http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/= </A></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary-- --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Balise PW QRSS60.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4QDrRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEBAgAhAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAawAA 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[193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 28DAE380001CC; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nibyc-0007RA-M6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nibyc-0007R1-6O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from mail1.ssmb.com ([199.67.179.103] helo=mail.citigroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <marco.scholz@citi.com>) id 1Nibyb-0003Yp-Cm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from imbhub-mw01.nam.nsroot.net ([159.17.94.188]) by imbaspam-ny03.ssmb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/SSMB_EXT/ev: 24741 $) with ESMTP id o1JMdIVD018849 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:21 GMT Received: from exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net [169.186.207.97]) by imbhub-mw01.nam.nsroot.net (Switch-3.4.1/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o1JMdGCa011805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 GMT Received: from exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.219.14]) by exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.207.97]) with mapi; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:16 +0000 From: "Scholz, Marco " <marco.scholz@citi.com> To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:15 +0000 Thread-Topic: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH TNX XBAND QSO 40m/137KHz DD7PC Thread-Index: Acqxrpu5PN9rH7WSRYC1ygcop1jZPwABSIrQ Message-ID: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A242A@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> References: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl In-Reply-To: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB x-wiganss: 01000000010018exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net ID0044<16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A242A@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 199.67.177.41 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH TNX XBAND QSO 40m/137KHz DD7PC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b7f1a874a8a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marcin, Many, many thanks for the nice XBAND QSO 7.025KHz (CW) / 137.705KHz (QRSS3= ) (my 1st one). Your signal is "O" now. Thanks for "466". I will send my QSO card direct. GL vy73 Marco DD7PC RX 137KHz: Teletron TE-704 + Miniwhip TX 40m: FT-857, FD4 Windom ant., 100W -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of bxi@go2.pl Sent: 19 February 2010 22:52 To: rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org Subject: LF: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b8abc421d5; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:56:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A9701380000A2; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NloI7-0008Lh-Ew for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NloI7-0008LY-4H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <fitec@omskcity.com>) id 1NloI5-000192-79 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SIsqlF027733 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:54:53 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA00220 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:59:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:59:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" <fitec@omskcity.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <CDD8913BA26C4C4BAA031227912ECF60@Black> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.1100301013359.218A-100000@noname.nodomain.nowhere> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:54:55 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: LF: 9kHz without high voltage Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a44b8abc40275f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I was wonder if it is posible to use a loop on 9 kHz. Serious problem to radiate 9 kHz is high voltage we saw. Loop has that advantage that voltage is not too high. Then i do some estimations. Let's assume vertical loop 15m x 50 m with 20 mm diameter coper tube as a wire. Then effectivity of such a loop on 9 kHz is about -65 dB. It is adequate to radiate 1 mW on 9kHz (I=250A, TX power about 4 kW). We saw such a radiation should give abt 100 km distance in QRSS. Besides such a loop is wellsuited for 136 kHz. On 136 kHz it effectivity should be about -25 dB. Not too bad: 1 W radiation with 400 W TX :-) Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.219]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA092-86194b70f51e313; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:39:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6171B380001A9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:39:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeinN-0002Vt-BN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeinM-0002Vk-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:56 +0000 Received: from smtp08.online.nl ([194.134.42.53]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <victor13@online.nl>) id 1NeinJ-0006Zg-Qe for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:56 +0000 Received: from smtp08.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp08.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0DC660B9 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp08.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 (CET) From: <victor13@online.nl> To: "blacksheep" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 Message-ID: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp08.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40db4b70f51c2664 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr transmissions (15% tx) 73 Victor ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390 Content-Type: image/jpeg; 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PPq0hGpGZz/PkH85n5y/YnX6BX7h7++PadfU+Cn9j4rOlgL9y905kguWW2xqlTGt7k+8VcTO IIEGwSNSy0O1gQhMxvjM/ISANZPISLkMV+0MH8+CxKTgV8xLtRBeY4SM6mY3IlMD99XWdZ1n Sf6h9Z1nWdZ1nrPWdZ1nWdZ6z1//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB013-a1874b673dbc18a; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:46:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B77423800027D; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc39g-00037n-0v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:45:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc39f-00037e-Iu for 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<Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:41:53 +0100 Thread-Topic: early copy of VX9MRC Thread-Index: AQHKo3+GSKQfRu8plEmE23LGdVmGrA== Message-ID: <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: early copy of VX9MRC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b673dba4096 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VX9MRC was audible early and peaked 559 at 20:10 UTC. For the last half hour the signal is up and down in QRM/QRN between Q3 and= Q5. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"><head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859= -1"> <style></style> <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18882"> <style title=3D"owaParaStyle"><!--P { =09MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px } --></style> </head> <body bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" ocsi=3D"x"> <p>VX9MRC was audible early and peaked 559 at 20:10 UTC.</p= > <p><font face=3D"times new roman">For the last half hour the signal is up= and down in QRM/QRN between Q3 and Q5.</font></p> <p><font face=3D"times new roman"></font> </p> <p><font face=3D"times new roman">73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T</font></p> </body> </html> --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-db07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB073-86494b710a941b0; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:11:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 99648380001AA; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 02:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NekEJ-0002fX-V0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NekEJ-0002fO-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <john.rabson@numeo.fr>) id 1NekEH-000755-7a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: (qmail 1844 invoked by uid 507); 9 Feb 2010 08:09:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2010 08:09:31 +0100 Message-ID: <201002090809330429.07DB3468@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> References: <PAEFLMFGBDKKCONLMLBICEBNDHAA.ganymede444@btopenworld.com> <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:33 +0100 From: "John RABSON" <john.rabson@numeo.fr> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b710a9248a1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 On 08/02/2010 at 21:50 Andy Talbot wrote: >The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. > >Andy Not to mention borrowing one of the masts (Puckeridge?) for some tests. John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6f26b63cb; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:46:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5CFE938000115; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0m-0004HL-OF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0m-0004HC-9w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from mout7.freenet.de ([195.4.92.97]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de>) id 1NeE0l-0003pG-BB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.24] (helo=14.mx.freenet.de) by mout7.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1NeE0j-0006Mv-HY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:45:41 +0100 Received: from p57af16c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.175.22.200]:1218 helo=2a2d7ed321c6425) by 14.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NeE0i-0001rW-Je for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:45:41 +0100 From: "Beckmann, Gerhard" <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:45:37 +0100 Message-ID: <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcqoKoP9TPwffoWJTrKb66VIuHnFngACz3Yg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6f26b4615c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good evening Gary, LF first reception of your CQ-Call this evening at - 20 dB !!! 203600 16 -20 -0.4 -48 31 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 Condx seem to be not too good.. However, JT4A is just working !!! best 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI (JN59LN) ======= _____ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 20:17 An: LF Group (RSGB) Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas= -microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off= ice:word" xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xml= ns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-a= scii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com= :office:smarttags" name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Tahoma; =09panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.E-MailFormatvorlage17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} @page Section1 =09{size:595.3pt 841.9pt; =09margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Goo= d evening <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Gary</st1:place= ></st1:City>, LF<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fir= st reception of your CQ-Call this evening at – 20 dB !!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>203= 600 16  -20 -0.4  -48 31 *      CQ G4WGT IO83   &nbs= p;         1   0<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Con= dx seem to be not too good….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How= ever, JT4A is just working !!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>best 73 de Gerh= ard  //  DK6NI  (JN59LN)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Rom= an"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o= :p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font= ></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:Tahoma'> owner-<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org</st1:PersonName> [mailto:owner-<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</st1:PersonName>] <b><span style=3D'font-w= eight:bold'>Im Auftrag von </span></b>Gary - G4WGT<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Sonntag, 7.= Februar 2010 20:17<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b> LF Group (RSGB)<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Hi LF,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mod= e tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal freq= uency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>73,  Gary - G4WGT.<o:p></o:p></span></fo= nt></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI031-eabe4b80255937; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:09:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B9AD38000094; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NitkP-0002vT-Rh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NitkP-0002vK-Bn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate01.web.de ([217.72.192.221]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <horst.stoecker@web.de>) id 1NitkN-0000iB-N9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate01.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FD414831DC6 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:08:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:08:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= <horst.stoecker@web.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <11800210.1207699.1266689280876.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+eQERW+o0SN9W7Bq9HpRUQQ+jwneM1bmSmCMVtRHMVJI1mcB/836Zi cVIkH5um9hlsbUb3kNk18X0UlmOnTDl3GF+25Cni++6BsBdXUjfH44iSgkHIJe20 ooutjUWBGvnW0Z+DPem5fyLjJhgDM/nTQyilwa9wsNI= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b802558365c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Despite I do not expect that anyone will receive the transmission, I'll gi= ve it a try. The beacon ist transmitting on 8.79 kHz in QRSS until tomorrow morning. Horst DO1KHS ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=C3=BCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b6f31d6325; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:34:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 695053800018B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:34:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEkm-0005ee-SP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEkm-0005eV-3W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.cowburn@virgin.net>) id 1NeEkk-0004Rl-6j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207213307.HCYD4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:33:07 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.cowburn@virgin.net>) id 1NeEkd-0003ve-BW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:07 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" <james.cowburn@virgin.net> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:33:05 -0000 Message-ID: <007901caa83d$225be680$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOs+4pG5fLK1KQ/mK5bate1dURwAAV9HAAAAz5OA= X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=pU8Q4LAerKSIRjyLqo4A:9 a=B4fd2zP1z6Xf9OXGuU4A:7 a=SB5pkSPxhYDSBVR2TCiAJxMMTagA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=rJwkGUO-Q5LeIkv-:21 a=BIu0W2uxkc6iJgW5:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=o6XQ1eyzeWyMYu10WpkA:9 a=Umgs_UfnS3cgxzx017IA:7 a=EA60cvhFoaTP91EKXqheXH21MlsA:4 a=W2t9Lo4zkEQ7DDfa:21 a=S4wkdX6N5qOdqwDh:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b6f31d4348f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got all to RRR so many thanks for persisting. I now understand the message sequence too Thanks Gary _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Cowburn Sent: 07 February 2010 21:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E <blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net> james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 21:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote: Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas= -microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off= ice:word" xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xml= ns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-asc= ii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com= :office:smarttags" name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"place"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Tahoma; =09panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face =09{font-family:"Freestyle Script"; =09panose-1:3 8 4 2 3 2 5 11 4 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} span.style10ptitalicblack =09{font-family:Arial; =09color:black; =09font-style:italic;} span.EmailStyle20 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} span.Style10ptItalicBlack0 =09{font-family:Arial; =09color:black; =09font-style:italic;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Got all to RRR= so many thanks for persisting.   I now understand the message sequence too<o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks Gary<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><span class=3DStyle10ptItalicBlack0><i><font size=3D2 colo= r=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o= :p></span></font></i></span></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></fon= t></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:Tahoma'> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] <b><span style=3D'font-wei= ght:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>James Cowburn<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 07 February 2010= 21:27<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Great, have rep= lied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!)  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>With best regards</span>= </font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span= ></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><strong><b><font size=3D6 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Freestyle= Script"><span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Scrip= t";color:navy'>Jim</span></font></b></strong><font color=3Dnavy><span= style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dr. James Cowbu= rn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>26 Birch Close<= o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Broom<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Biggleswade<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Beds<o:p></o:p>= </span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>SG18 9NR<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <o:p></o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>T +44= (0) 1767 600522<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>M+44= (0) 7967 300152<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>E </sp= an></font><font color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:A= rial;color:blue'><a href=3D"blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net"= title=3D"blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net"><font size=3D2><sp= an lang=3DDE style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><span title=3D"blocked::mailto= :james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net</span></span></fon= t></a></span></font><font color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span lang=3DDE st= yle=3D'font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= lang=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font size=3D2 color= =3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.</span></font></i></span><i><font size= =3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f= amily:Arial; color:black;font-style:italic'><br> <span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font color=3Dblack face=3DArial= >Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action= in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the= intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is not intende= d to be contractually binding.</font></i></span><br> <span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font color=3Dblack face=3DArial= >If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message= as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.<o:p></o:p><= /font></i></span></span></font></i></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></fon= t></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:Tahoma'> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>G= ary - G4WGT<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 07 February 2010= 21:15<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>211100  4  -20  0.1   &nb= sp;2 32 *      G4WGT G7NKS IO92          1   0&nb= sp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><st1:place w:st=3D= "on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><s= pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Gary</span></font></st1:City></st1:plac= e>.<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net</a= >> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 fac= e=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Sorry I knocked= the VFO!<br> <br> Thanks for the report<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org</a><br> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">owner-rs= gb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>] On Behalf Of James Moritz<br> Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org</a><br> Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A<br> <br> Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,<br> <br> Pretty solid copy of both signals here...<br> <br> 02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0<br> 202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *<br> 202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0<br> <br> The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in<br> frequency by about 20Hz.<br> <br> Cheers, Jim Moritz<br> 73 de M0BMU<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.146]) by air-md09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD093-8b964b826b9e117; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:33:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E0507380000A0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWWu-0000a2-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWWu-0000Zt-3A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>) id 1NjWWr-0000dJ-NI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1MBWgnT031342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:42 +0100 Received: from [129.206.29.70] (pc70.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.70]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id o1MBWgkY020516 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:31 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan=5FSch=E4fer?= <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010907040703040903040105" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40924b826b9c279b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------010907040703040903040105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id o1MBWgnT031342 Ok Roger, And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well?= =20 What about the UK? If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build a big=20 antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the wire high above=20 ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do you mean with=20 amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround 500W+-6dB. But=20 the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna in the garden,= =20 say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about 2x500m in a forrest,=20 perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a ferrite toroid i=20 think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That could be interesting and= =20 easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, just 2 wires hung up on some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the feed point, that would be a=20 first step. This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF it is the=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and make some=20 contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much easier on=20 40/80m... And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, the=20 fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But=20 that are dreams... Stefan/DK7FC Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are=20 > probably the best "antenna". There are references to how these work=20 > in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s,=20 > available on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham=20 > sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern=20 > signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= =20 > power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at=20 > 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for=20 > 100s of kms. > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de=20 > <mailto:schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>> > > Hello Horst, > > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting field to test. > > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for > that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some > trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also > 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the > ODX would be interesting... > > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > > 73, Stefan > > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > <mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> im Auftrag von Horst > St=F6cker > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g> > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > > > > Hallo Stefan, > > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the > range <9kHz is free. > > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I > got a letter which confirmed that. > > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do > not need one. > > There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or powe= r. > > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > > Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE <http://web.de/> DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > > > > > > --=20 > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --=20 ---------------------------- Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de --------------010907040703040903040105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title> Ok Roger,

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build a big antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the wire high above ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do you mean with amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround 500W+-6dB. But the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna in the garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about 2x500m in a forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a ferrite toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That could be interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, just 2 wires hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the feed point, that would be a first step.
This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF it is the same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and make some contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much easier on 40/80m...
And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, the fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)

Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?

With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But that are dreams...

Stefan/DK7FC




Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably the best "antenna".  There are references to how these work in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
 
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms.
 
73s
Roger G3XBM


 
2010/2/22 Stefan Schäfer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hello Horst,

That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)

What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst Stöcker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL über 1000,- ¿ sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088


-- 
----------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Schäfer
Institut für Umweltphysik der Universität Heidelberg
Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany

schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405

www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
--------------010907040703040903040105-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.32]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI021-eaba4b6f19c0118; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:51:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1DE5E3800039D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:51:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD97-0003hZ-N6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD97-0003hQ-94 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeD94-0003QH-Tq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2436561pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:50:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=XBmsj8qddeC6HpUU0fSlljhrtgh/U9aK9Wye74LIt2c=; b=UbEt3Pp3/era61OCiREjm0WjkMnFIe8c6b3Q/jJxWPIY/c2DQlO0AY/Y7JWIdsG7r6 ugSoLchckAGF1bMJeA+WYpSf9KdXm3LYn3/JzOhuergiB2JgPJTmCfd5G7hO8iW0v/CO +HtnLgCllFtOExDvRNrSMAZJ2bVTwkfR3zId4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Mlw1F9H/5iF0JTt+K5YLChxmOpMbxAWgNbdq9V9sxbKOhGc6FnYewQMsjP43YOMFuf y1ZrNWp8VAgwlTCbylyooj/GFyQ/e6KvS/eTkxsEi23ViDuYot/Q4AXYUyRFTeFvgz6M Ppj5lfbAmgY1RDLR+ZH71sEYL26bFGs4bAMCw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.88.13 with SMTP id q13mr3877994rvl.45.1265572206812; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:50:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:50:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 867a324688e97c04 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b6f19be11f4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

Up & running now, just had a comms port sna= g, another app was holding the port.

GUD LUK, Gar= y - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, Jam= es Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> ow= ner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] On Behalf Of Gary= - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode ton= ight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 50= 3.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE034-5ead4b6e82cc207; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:07:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B497838000183; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne36C-0000sn-JR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne36C-0000se-8L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne36B-0007eQ-H3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207090629.FOFG4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:06:29 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100207090629.YNL2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:06:29 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B6E828D.1087.43AE30E@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=Cz5BHNvTWQjdRtcwns4A:9 a=yJ-36n7OyqJUCpOxSzFQucij2MwA:4 a=gmBXsakOPyV2O1YJ9SEA:9 a=MdMqCQolhZec9jNJ9i0A:7 a=NMLK_S_V9v6U1a-KU9LLryidzlQA:4 a=JyWztMpJTsE1cA7kAvAA:9 a=qb_MkHqKE0X0L1WXQ8k3So2lV84A:4 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=gJ3t0dpKdzSEvcAW:18 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-11729 Subject: LF: East meets west X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b6e82ca1fcb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Description: Mail message body Lots of activity around 137.77kHz last night. Here is a screen grab taken at around 2300UTC showing a 'G' from OE3GHB, a 'Y' from RA3YO and a 'V' from VO1NA. Also saw good sigs earlier from RN3AGC. Mike. G3XDV ========== --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Attachment information. The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg Date: 7 Feb 2010, 8:54 Size: 3702 bytes. Type: JPEG-image --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: Image/JPEG; name="OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDAA0JCgsKCA0LCgsODg0PEyAVExISEyccHhcgLikxMC4p LSwzOko+MzZGNywtQFdBRkxOUlNSMj5aYVpQYEpRUk//2wBDAQ4ODhMREyYVFSZPNS01T09PT09P T09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0//wAARCABFAMgDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAGgAAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQAAgUBBv/EAEMQAAIBAwIDBAYHBQQLAAAAAAEC AwAEEQUSEyExQYGRoQYiUWFxsRQjMkJSwdEVYnKC4RYkM6IHQ1NUY3SSssLw8f/EABgBAQEBAQEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgMF/8QAIxEAAgIDAAEDBQAAAAAAAAAAAAECERIhMUEDImEycoGh8P/aAAwD AQACEQMRAD8A8DNcM59dEJH4Vwf0qQzInPc4b3KPnmmNOWYAm3lttxHNHk2E/DNAk+jxysJ4ZTJ7 5fV8hXoturs5jsN/cRwlY2EYb7/HY+W6kJ5LlyQ8pMZ7gagZI1zEYwzfhc8vEVQSsSElyw9gwPPF G01QOiNORUq59mT+lcm2BfsBW7x866FbfiNWQe8k1SRRv5ZLDt6io+AvbQC5JCyJGw5+ucZoxuLy FNjyy8LphGyp8DXIzNMNrYZR93Oyqske3bgMfZuJxVSpaBRGzIGjQg+9s+Oa0tS1LVZ7KOG7aF4V 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VqaS4Q5I7ld292z2SHdQw5ckFYx8FxUqVyXUUCznO3AxT1vqM1ogEeST/wARh5AipUqQ8lGr24uJ bQStLtLdVQYB+NZkCCRiuWHwNSpV9X6kRcOsojUglmHs3YqW8as2Cqn41KlRLgJcqQ+MjuFDjJBy MZHbipUpKKyL4HFkElqwIYkfibNJMUz/AIfT31KlJO42yLo7DCBamYMQPw5NSpUrTdJUD//Z --Message-Boundary-11729-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b86ec6f151; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E8568380000B9; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NklIe-00080M-OV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NklIe-00080D-BO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NklIc-0000HL-Ka for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1266888qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3UicbI7KJy37icZPhJlmBvKAfkK9wZveWr3cNKqZtDY=; b=NwL+5uvezAplt8F4BKoc29NbqsaXLFNL35ShpOARF7Ge44v8m7Pk0vmUOcXXpEORFy ekftWgId/Msc1yYVRsrJEQ+dnvXBr7azeViiiY6rMh+2+7qPVxpT5LGRnDAvLkXP2uNq WEN/rSz0qMgllX3zHSCH43FX92PvXL8MOU0fg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=GPl2RToppqU1DX4dDklvTD9fenSJ1rboUjOAtwt3QNbpJppqXRR+52I92aAFl1eaZX dXI8l6m1ukSrC9rPOQ8iKd+kUmu7lYclgXbH9gYkVS/oi35VMVzx+cAFDy4W3T+qxMSV K8aT0SggvkqmVOfRz1aHtLb0xQnyk/Zw9gees= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.115.81 with SMTP id h17mr6833qaq.231.1267133462250; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m245.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b86ec6d649e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > >> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received >> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. > > [...] >> >> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as >> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act >> 2006. [...] > > there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, > they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one continent > can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the radio > authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths > (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority > and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usually > 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) > > sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask > at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will > need a license for that" clause. > > if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential > electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or > any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you > would probably get an entirely different answer :) > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC024-86a04b6aa6143e; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:48:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DFCF9380000B0; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 05:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NczFh-0002de-FN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczFh-0002dV-2J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczFf-0007sG-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o14AltWn012016 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:47:56 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:47:57 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:43:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlNwcxLh4GBuD/TR6ZXl6ViAgJBwAT8tZi References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <132E5B4C5BE74CB88E5411BF10DC90B6@JimPC> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.4.103922 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1" Subject: LF: AW: Re: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6aa6120129 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Jim! =20 There was no chance to get your signal. I am living in a student living co= ounity, for 2 months. In each room there is a PC, so i assume the noise le= vel is very high here. The E-field antenna seems to be sensitive to a loss= y environment if it is just near the antenna. DCF39 was even to weak, just= S5 to S7, so the field seems to be short cutted by the conducting tree (h= igh gamma and epsilon r). But since we did our CW QSO with this active ant= enna, it cannot be due to the antenna but rather to the environment at the= actual qth... Will improve... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von James Moritz Gesendet: Do 04.02.2010 02:07 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: Re: test signal wanted Dear Stefan, LF Group, I shut the beacon down at 0102utc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAEFXOiBSZTogUmU6IHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFsIHdhbnRlZAAVCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAEAAsAKwAAAAQAIQEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIABAAL AC8AOAAEAF0BAQmAAQAhAAAAQjQ3OTk5QzgzNENBOEU0Qjk0QzU0RjBFM0NCQzQwNEYAXgcBA5AG AKwRAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAhVyK0oalygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAA MgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjA0MTA0NzU2Wi0zNTcAAAAe AEkAAQAAAB8AAABMRjogUmU6IFJlOiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAEAATgCAo4VjNqXKAR4A 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Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF081-5efe4b78032e300; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:05:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A7F93380002D1; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngf4s-0001WU-Be for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:04:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngf4r-0001WL-Uh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:04:01 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngf4p-0003iJ-2x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:04:01 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so4287561pzk.30 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:03:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=75oZ4wTSbrRdd5Qxe1UUyW+o5feEGuq+V8zT00Oav0M=; b=I60wImDWeOj+amMDPFCsh36bWDGCQ+Q3tbLQltVGfp8TbjdI+t0/FAJ/krO2oCtOXR E2YOn87M3yTK9BHjKje4DFM7tRnNPS3rUTKkxEp41Vg5c5D61UsgAGmP1It665VYffzg rC77X7lYBL4vbzwkXPYM4Sa9eZfw90dF2/U9s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=eCDhN5BwTFkfKoKeANi65Q7vA8RfCCSnCMtgUm32HO/3FEXcidJ7FqsvhCscG0aL2W 2ddPeDxr+kHz6S7oGon6iFVYN1mqyI/Ex3KnmGNpvI23vibp46VBSYy3bDWqojPqApMR fWfuHuPE9kJJPpxCLAI5aCURr+XHcv8AG5teA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.90.20 with SMTP id s20mr2639854rvl.80.1266156230685; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:03:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:03:50 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2c587ca60b7ccaf1 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002140603o60d5c353qa636a3c8bd565eca@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500kHz WSPR QSO WE2XGR/2 <-> M0BMU Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m223.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b78032c2021 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, LF, Nice going Jim. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 14 February 2010 01:45, James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD > tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decoded > messages went like this: > > 000400 5 -28 0.1 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 > 001600 6 -26 0.0 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 > > 003002 4 -26 -0.1 51 0 M0BMU <...> S1 > > 004400 4 -29 0.0 70 0 WE2XGR R S1 > > 005002 5 -26 -0.1 51 0 WE2XGR RRR > > 010000 9 -24 -0.2 70 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 > > 010602 7 -26 0.1 51 0 73 DE WE2XGR FN31 > > Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO? > > M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, LF,

Nice going Jim.

73,= Gary - G4WGT.


On 14 February= 2010 01:45, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear LF Group,

I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD= tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decode= d messages went like this:

000400 =A0 5 -28 =A00.1 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0CQ M0BMU IO91
001600 =A0 6 -26 =A00.0 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0CQ M0BMU IO91

003002 =A0 4 -26 -0.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A0M0BMU <...> S1

004400 =A0 4 -29 =A00.0 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0WE2XGR <M0BMU> R S1

005002 =A0 5 -26 -0.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> WE2XGR RRR

010000 =A0 9 -24 -0.2 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A073 DE M0BMU IO91

010602 =A0 7 -26 =A00.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A073 DE WE2XGR FN31

Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO?

M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome= .

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



--000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-dd09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD094-86b14b842d4c38e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:32:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BFFD380000BB; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk0TM-0003XJ-VJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk0TM-0003XA-Ao for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk0TL-0006fR-Bt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223193101.HRWH4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:01 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk0TF-0001GT-1K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:01 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:30:59 -0000 Message-ID: <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Thread-Index: Acq0uZCEj9wjigluSHifOnDsc9SxhAABLGYw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=iHj8UeWpXyrbS2HTQCgA:9 a=XpEsIH21pQ-J71Z9LfcA:7 a=KLOVZWeMeoAA8QkoZfGtP-ypcMEA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=T2AdT3V9C0XbtNpQ:21 a=ei8JxPUhCSXzuZv6:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b842d481909 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Indeed! Only this afternoon after intercepting my post on the Echelon system I received a call from the chief bully at No. 10 to advise me that such an action could result in a modulation of global warming and so compromise their plans for justification of future tax hikes in the name of the environment. I was advised to go for a walk alone in the woods and take some paracetamol and a blunt knife with me, just on the off chance that my regrets could make me suicidal. Needless to say I declined the offer....got to go, there's some people at the d With best regards Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of g4gvw Sent: 23 February 2010 18:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: DATA James, I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation of the factors affecting global warming! On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > With best regards > > > > Jim > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > Roger > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > might join in. > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > Mal, > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > weak signal techniques this time. > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > wrote: > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > stns. > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > any of these modes. > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD103-86604b8ab95041; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:43:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E4E143800009C; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo5b-00081o-31 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo5a-00081f-IA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:02 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlo5X-000124-QM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:02 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1SIgf86001051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1SIgfUf001048 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8ab94e5766 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, mal hamilton wrote: > It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not > have a sense of Humour!! Mal, you need to get an additional license for humour these days :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b81aaa6381; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:50:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B3D64380000A3; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjJfy-0007jv-N8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjJfy-0007jm-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.159]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjJfw-00059n-El for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 91CE1700008D for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 836867000092 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.23.157]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 4D921700008D for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100221214910317.4D921700008D@mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <38064A038FB0430684105CAB0A535611@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:48:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100221-0, 21/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: FS > Racal MA7917B HF ISB / USB / LSM / AM exciter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b81aaa40538 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Racal MA7917B HF Independent side-band exciter SSB=20 Can be modified for MF by changing the 2 tuned cct's=20 on the band pass filter board.=20 Ebay item Item number:160406367998 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Racal MA= 7917B HF=20 Independent side-band exciter SSB <= /DIV>
Can be&n= bsp; modified=20 for  MF by changing  the  2  tuned=20 cct's 
on the&n= bsp; band=20 pass  filter  board.
Ebay item  Ite= m=20 number:160406367998
<= /TD>


------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA034-86634b6a1b971e6; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:57:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A7C2438000289; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncq1Q-00080I-F9 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncq1Q-000809-3c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncq1O-0004Gg-33 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4E1091C00089 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 40FFA1C00095 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.39.235]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BB1041C00089 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:29 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100204005629766.BB1041C00089@mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <0F031AEED8B34801AD1B8E974ABCCC7A@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:56:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100203-1, 03/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: G3PLX , ALL DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER RADCOM MARCH 2009 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b6a1b943eee X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable G3PLX , ALL DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER=20 Q What is the status of this project .. was it finished .. was= a kit produced for the parts etc ? G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
G3PLX , ALL  DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER=
 
Q    What is the = status =20 of this  project .. was it  finished ..  was a kit = ;=20 produced  for the  parts etc ?
 
G ..


------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.136]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE044-5eb14b6734883bd; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:07:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5765138000311; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2X8-0002gx-VL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2X8-0002go-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2X5-0001GG-Rq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsoEAETDZktOkovO/2dsb2JhbACNHwPNLIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,385,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="438528179" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.139.206]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 20:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01caa379$f28d7e90$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:05:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LA1TN 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40884b67348706f0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New station LA1TN now active on 500 cw. His first QSO on 500 with me= a few ago. 2004utc 1/02/2010 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New station LA1TN now active on 500= cw. His first=20 QSO on 500 with me a few ago. 2004utc 1/02/2010
de mal/g3kev
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA043-863c4b7bb4f2f8; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:20:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9918D3800028B; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhg3l-00077g-2O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhg3k-00077X-Gc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:04 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhg3i-0006sw-F3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:04 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXZ001EEB7GS8@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:53 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:53 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55134 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ca4b7bb4f06643 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA)" --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 17-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA)-- --Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 17-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 17-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABXA14DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBAgQFBggH/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH8fW13YIi1rSJYvAi7F2EEA9DXVWON SpmlmUbfk0Kp0lgoWXXm7jq6tMuYjPazaeerUkkTOJWZZoKq2kDKReyIoySsMYxNrIHL6vd4 i9cc3Ki2o96q3rli7s8kS6Cs735UquRaRidEbpEusjPLlyRMutrhTidOEnG6FmOVulerrVtJ S4daBN62atRkaNcOnMvmaqnXQq0qkxZKt13oit2DRpSJ2W6LEXLZyqWxL+t8enPzsJ64fH0R HeQTeCouWmlaaO788g/Ky8Um2jKIjUlJuZ1NBTrqyJrdlPPDiVWSmisxDpaHTSgYqqG2z2gY 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Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-30927954-1267217219=:4347" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m257.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ce4b88339a393c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Warren =A0 Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment= there is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come= from this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite read= able at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time. =A0 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wr= ote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice =20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President= is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of our= book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am not expect= ing DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF Amateur= community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a lon= g road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is enoug= h enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this debat= e on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/= 2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz= up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this= continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt
-------------------------------------------------= -
From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25= , 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /A>>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operati= on below 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2= ORS
              WD2XGJ
 =             WD2XSH/23
    &nbs= p;         WE2XEB/2
        &nb= sp;     WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jac= ek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapth= orn wrote:

People may be interested in the= reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFC= OM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Re= gs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Ho= wever in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequ= ency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vl= f spectrum,
they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without= any license from the radio
authorities. the only regulation they need= regards maximum field strengths
(and this is usually the realm of some= environmental protection authority
and not the radio authority). the= operating frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)
sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not= to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will
ne= ed a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it= is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission= from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9= kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entir= ely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the= answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice

=







=20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.9]) by air-me06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME063-8bb64b6f424f1ce; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:44:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2046E38000492; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeFq8-0006Jt-27 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeFq7-0006Jk-EP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:51 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeFq5-0004qP-Qr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:51 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207224243.JNEL4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:42:43 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeFpz-0007LX-6j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:43 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:42:41 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01caa846$db53f4d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoRtsdz9R6qOvTSaOZRptBlPnYkg== X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=MM7NfCvmF6GXd1KLBqwA:9 a=VJA4mg0ymkC3gKpIP6bGZi56ZPwA:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=mqZIuzLtVHXK6pBDU08A:9 a=y-q21TXJzle5h35jg-QA:7 a=OA6sSL90LpwOF7DvQUuRCOFM2zcA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: wrong power setting on WSPR spots Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60094b6f424d5668 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LF - sorry I was txing with around 50mw and not 5 mw. I am now on around 5mW as from 22.40z With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LF – sorry I was txing with aroun= d 50mw and not 5 mw.  I am now on around 5mW as from 22.40z

 

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.210]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC084-86a64b82911e326; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6D3CB380000F4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZ1L-00014h-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZ1L-00014Y-5P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjZ1G-0001no-0I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1675079bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:12:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ec+EacQMnBuxSyR4mOP7vbLq+iqQfa58feiwVRBa2bc=; b=a1oSDdowqmNF7aBkED34SSPgvJfKSRLmnjru9pGyxs7OoQsFxQ6SOMDjOKls7UmPaS pL0V0j4Ig+UHR7pIrQq9bbpbZmeGFdWvpZ3Ql4GJXVpX7qVj3wdY3K7qWZfBxCzPKJTb sC699XMwXKkL+33+kObCeKElVRpvp/TN3UWj0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lA6C+qT4ad6GkyGTjIcuWrDGSD0F8accD7g3PpnRafGmnc20Rnj3nYCUJs7pXMa5Ec UR2mRxf/Xbk9T3I/4EVEpGd7OmYEO0W7Pe2+q5YDi5XGbAnSxbVeU662HapkfRh/2iM8 0dKoaSln9lLCOPq65+GCtiSQXysLwBaWwej0Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.206 with SMTP id 14mr4404508bkk.189.1266847912629; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:11:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:11:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m240.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d24b82911c5c67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to. Here are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and practicalities: < http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=3DgetRecord&metadataPrefix=3Dhtml&identi= fier=3DAD0640319 > < http://www.search.com/reference/Ultra_low_frequency#Earth_Mode_Communicati= ons > 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 10:03, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably= the > best "antenna". There are references to how these work in the literatur= e > (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the interne= t I > believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see > http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal > processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. > Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes > Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > > Hello Horst, >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs= in >> the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower= . >> There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel= . You >> do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wi= re >> and nobody will care about it. >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some tree= s >> on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The lo= op >> has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from= 160m >> to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a >> problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m >> on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F >> stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a >> letter which confirmed that. >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not nee= d >> one. >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> Horst >> ___________________________________________________________ >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to.

Here= are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and practicalit= ies:

<http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea= bs_all.jsp?reload=3Dtrue&arnumber=3D1138037>
<http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&= amp;verb=3DgetRecord&metadataPrefix=3Dhtml&identifier=3DAD0640319<= /a>>
<http://www.search.com/reference/Ultra_low_f= requency#Earth_Mode_Communications>

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 10:03, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are prob= ably the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these wo= rk in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, avail= able on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru= .de/#vlf=A0.
=A0
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern= signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz= (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of= kms.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM


=A0
2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer &l= t;schaef= er@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hello Horst,
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated= OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to= test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower.= There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
<= br>What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One= can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.0= 2.2010 09:29
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing= on 8.79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12= /05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not be= lieve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which co= nfirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do no= t need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like ban= dwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
____________________________= _______________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/=






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174c179ed116bd0480310368-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD031-86094b7f95a43cb; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:56:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7585338000087; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:56:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NikAd-0000vp-TZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NikAd-0000vg-GC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NikAa-00065v-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A4C4C8115 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95DA4C8090 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B7F9532.60808@online.fr> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:26 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: LF T/A [137kHz] XKO , XES , XGJ last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b7f95a271f6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Dex , John , Warren , Good copy of yours beacons last night . 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.209]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB041-85f04b84517a263; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 77123380000BF; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2sT-0003kP-0q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2sS-0003kG-Hf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:12 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2sP-0007R2-U8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:12 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1NM5388002357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:04 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:03 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:01 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq01D/oXdS3eFilSL6w7VzXazIhpg== Message-ID: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> In-Reply-To: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d14b8451791fc2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear All, John Rabson, F5VLF, is having trouble posting to this group. He asked me= to forward this for him, which he has sent unsuccessfully twice: --------------- Clank, The reflector has twice not delivered the attached. Would you try for me,= please? 73 John *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 23/02/2010 at 14:16 John RABSON wrote: From: John RABSON To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:00 +0100=20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz My LF ground system consists of nine rods each 1 m long, separated by about 2 m. if I connect them in parallel the inductance at 980 Hz is about 7?H, and the resistance is about 25 ohms. This suggests that, at the frequencies we are considering, this is an essentially resistive termination and we don't need to cancel out the reactive part. =20 If we place a similar setup at the other end of a long wire we should see of the order of 50 ohms. Given that we are working at audio frequency, perhaps the step-up transformer from 8 ohms could use conventional soft iron laminations. At 50 Hz, my colleagues used to use a rule of thumb of 20VA per pound of laminations but I can't remember how this figure varied with frequency. Can any audio power engineers please comment? 73 John F5VLF ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.14]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b6f2dae2c0; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:16:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A8F738000041; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeETh-0005Ed-B4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeETg-0005EU-Sy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:36 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeETd-0004Fl-TZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:36 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2474558pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:15:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=xIcRH9R6LgIU4YI9Ho9oE3q3VUZugxhZzPAG/Bj6xZ0=; b=Awb9Ti9ga8z9B71yFz/bvsPNoZPhnmJGggl5666OojcB0CpBlcB4XZMlvP2c7EXqU1 Jv9bm1zlCZXznLZM9EUokPY6H/jjuNOh3+YSZCFgLDp4L/YqTdHwCyH2rBumYPlz6w2x r1fqvx7sevRKufl2KXPvojrgWotZeMLqgcf2E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=FGsPZmRXdSOf/9X3ywgA2z7V8ohOlIRE6jc/EXAPo2WueXFR+7ahDgcXU0hzkE33Bc SyeTIW2uPCiiEWNdND6KvpVWuXuCoSj3l3jLiq5PnrrNWC7TQLmsc5wt0PEISvqCha98 Qtioqg31wV+z5AnUFp1BkognPC9zlYwIv1wNI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.5.13 with SMTP id h13mr2721025rvi.34.1265577326154; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:15:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:15:26 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: d0d35e6118d14fb0 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410e4b6f2dad089d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: > Sorry I knocked the VFO! > > Thanks for the report > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.
<= br>
211100 =A04 =A0-20 =A00.1 =A0 =A02 32 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7N= KS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0=A0

Gary.
On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn= @virgin.net> wrote:
Sorry I knocked the VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




--000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.221]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC061-a96f4b8a9ace275; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:33:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 57C2438000110; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlm40-0006UP-BL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlm3z-0006UG-L2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:15 +0000 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.14]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlm3x-0000KP-09 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:15 +0000 X-Trace: 186790501/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-temporary-group/79.71.251.109/None/m0afj@dsl.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 79.71.251.109 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: m0afj@dsl.pipex.com X-SMTP-AUTH: X-MUA: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApIBAE8piktPR/tt/2dsb2JhbAAHjzHEfYR7BA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="186790501" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 79-71-251-109.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [10.0.0.11]) ([79.71.251.109]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:32:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:10 +0000 From: tim hague User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> In-Reply-To: <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dd4b8a9acc5d2a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an= =20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be=20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > =20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Markus Vester > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:48 PM > *Subject:* LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Dear LF, > =20 > Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform > the group that because of much heavier winds than expected, he > will not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also > mentioned that the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS > circuit) will require some more work. > =20 > Kind regards, > Markus (DF6NM) > =20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Stefan Sch=E4fer > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM > *Subject:* LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more > probably > > Dear LF group, > =20 > Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See > http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt > It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a > strenght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle > and stable for tests. That is the first positive news. > =20 > Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even > about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. > Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the > maximum voltage on my single wire. There are several > possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage, well > known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this > may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with > a first test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-= ) > =20 > That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry > that and there are better ways to realisethat. But it is > available i get the chance to resonate that 100m vertical at > 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living room of my > parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the > first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV > plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO > with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in > this way i will be able to make a transformation of the > resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well > audible so i am excited how the antenna and coil will sound > when some 100W applied;-) > =20 > The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I > will try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i > have also to spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be > arranged... > =20 > On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform > Markus/DF6NM to give those who are interested a information > here... > =20 > I have to go now, and will inform you... > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von > Alexander S. Yurkov > Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio > Operation below 9kHz? > > > > > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave > amateur > > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, > one of the > > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that > amateurs would > > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one > wouldn't be > > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as > one big town ;-) > > Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely > shure > QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on > 9 kHz. > There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. > Main problem > is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is > reachable with > some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one > should avoid > free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use > 'protecting rings' > on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use > not too high > antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed > specially for > high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m > kite antenna > used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly > vertical, does > it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT > capacity 4.5 km > was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. > Now we see > huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different > sourses. What is > the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower > time to > time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where > 4.5 km > experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Whe= re > spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as > high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the > wave zone > on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not > too fast with > distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where > 'waveguide' > propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX > ANT voltage > only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's > experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not > the last > experiment. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this= =20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater=20 amateur community. Tim M0AFJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b7af6eb176; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 65685380002F0; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhTPj-00068O-44 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhTPi-00068F-9J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:54 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhTPf-0003l9-Gj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:54 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so3542393bwz.31 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:48:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=210kgoSiu6DGBF1AjPOlwBWHKCzbUmKYgneF+ibVZjE=; b=issc5WsWYh7KmTkn79kJrY+VRo4eBtmyDkJ5EnnVsdZBlUJel7ynxseOh4focSQk7I UNkbyK6Fy6WpAZ20PrelmYueHafspNnLirJwBvp9hg56yd14YTGv2AuRuVyl4seUGeim S4y2xW6YIwaedwnMyKh4sslL1o5C842S9jViA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=AZ24ZN+6q14FFX4HNutjjsdU11kQhiXsa0CAaplKw09pmuSlGHfZmHRWgiU7QOQ+Tv 265iJnVKYyl2QrUkN6zzyC9S0ALinzvssLnLLI48jSCUQCgIz6fcbVM7SERk78rIyho8 GqCBp9NYySzW5ZOYMEUhbFBsUdMOKrWf8kBWc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.135.153 with SMTP id n25mr743749bkt.156.1266349722839; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:48:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d260.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b7af6e901ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it must be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone exchang= e' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a higher value= and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). So it really was givi= ng more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in fact,= if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enoug= h said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / efficiency. So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp. BUT, with suitable change of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz -= if a suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other projects to get pushed of ft= he stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: > Andy,Rik, > > after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to > http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif > I'm sorry to say that > I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) > transfomer. > > Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above design > to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). > 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path fr= om > the primary to secondary side. > *There is no such dc path here.* > 2.)In a bootstrap design the *braid* of one coax end is *connected *to= the > *center* > *conductor* at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax > section (1:9 or higher). > This is not the case in this design.*The center of the secondary is > nowhere connected* > *with a braid.* > ** > BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in line= ar > mode. > If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on th= e > fundamental > frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the > low pass filter > losses etc. > It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater > was designed to be superlinear. > > 73 > Clemens > DL4RAJ > > ** > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andy Talbot > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Cc:* ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity > > BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted > > So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculation= s > said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. > Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configur= ed > with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second referen= ce, > the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. > > Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of coa= x, > which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio= (for > 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped= on > top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all its > glory, is my mystery. > > The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has = two > separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pu= ll > HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hid= es a > big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever > ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and= even > to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one > end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how bala= nced > operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. > > On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 > transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the > transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapp= ed > on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructor= s. > A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax > giving one turn more than it appears to. > > It all falls out. > ... life is worth living again ... > ... can retire happy ... > > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... > > On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrot= e: > >> Andy, >> >> have a look here : >> >> http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf >> >> http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideba= nd%20Transformers.pdf >> >> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ >> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ >> andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] >> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 >> *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >> *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. > Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de > Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 > 08:35:00 > > --0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A follow up to this sage=A0=A0
=A0
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it mu= st be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.=A0=A0So I connected up and= measured voltages.=A0Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 -=A0=A0 So=A0=A0= how could it deliver 1kW plus...
=A0
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, =A0got out the 'teleph= one exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would= give.=A0=A0 Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800= or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a= higher value and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).=A0= =A0=A0 So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to'
=A0
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.=A0=A0 I'd= used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf=A0 and forgot it.=A0=A0 Enoug= h said.
=A0
Anyway, tested the PA, and found=A0it would go down to about 5MHz whe= re the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs= lost gain / efficiency.=A0=A0 So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine,= but of little use as a general HF amp.=A0=A0 BUT, with suitable change of= output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or= 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.=A0 That's where it sits now.= =A0=A0 Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other proje= cts to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
=A0
after thinking a while over the trans= former of Andy's PA and referri= ng to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)=A0sur= e that it is=A0a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
=A0
Here are some crucial points which=A0= exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers=A0provide no dc= isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path here= .
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid of=A0one coax end is connected to the center
conductor at the sta= rt of the same=A0 coax (1:4) or of the next=A0 coax section (1:9 or higher= ).
This is not the case in this design.<= strong>The center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
=A0
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get easily=A0one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used as industrial RF= heater
was designed to be superlinear.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10= :43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:= 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 08:35:00=


--0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.30]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF034-8be44b6daa8311f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:44:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 53E3C3800038C; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndogf-0005Mz-JL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndogf-0005Mq-8b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndogc-0005aY-LE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o16Hh6vf003537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:13:06 -0330 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:13:06 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> Message-ID: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411e4b6daa817ec2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ---1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Nicolas, Jean-Pierre Ko and Marus, and group. It is indeed a pleasure to receive your reports of the transmissions on 137.777 kHz again. The TX was the old xtal class E used in the early 2200m experiments almost 7 years ago, running 70 watts, 1.4 amps to a 100m wire at 10m height and should be QRV again tonight. 73 and many thanks=20 Joe VO1NA On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" wrote: > Hello Joe , > Happy to find this signal which missed us so much, > welcome on 777 (your frequency is always free) > 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj > > F4DTL@aol.com a =E9crit : >> Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. >> Welcome !!! >> F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP >>=20 >> RX: PM-SDR >> Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 >>=20 >> _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) >>=20 > > ---1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.224]) by air-me01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME014-8ba34b830b9c100; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BEEDC38000117; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBX-00065y-Av for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBW-00065p-P1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:26 +0000 Received: from web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.131]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhBU-0006NT-Lw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:26 +0000 Received: (qmail 21241 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266879318; bh=Cujb8Hk4tZidn6HSjQFWO+mnjS3nlGWWs2qf0YuSwOs=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XYwkdfkBAwBG7Q3/V1UxZTU7UDq0C4XJsB1ZSS/9H/Qmq1wMT82J5cUNIRrm4rmsI2+3WPt3cM4kXQPL7AZ+PyznuzlLYHxHZGkug42a4ZOijHgAl1qKkLSAIkl5M35vOA3NOS96EEPInyPYhVKuoKNBYCHg1TIePck4XYGt+Ys= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cqZnfkpjzdFASUwObPdzM9ikKD41Mgr5VoGj95exos7iCRaO+LBociuiRaXzKBgcvaA5uScpGl97W+RnOt4LB/wSa9sbkQ5WFIeVwv2GX7mn6DMCwl0e6ODM/qWRZWFMnY3a6UYi7gLCLavYo+XfKyzT0bca715YN7lnYXy0sfU=; Message-ID: <792299.21067.qm@web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: rpXcXQ4VM1ngEwF1XHrKXJAtiqoflOS5Ynluw4hKqboantDGOpedyY8vqdmoC2hUKgRhGksrAgP9XFryAN6a6dNLgbAgWh9vc0eIjy771pkuj4KjwgQSGMvtuelo0393HwEKIekZxXce22slxyqj5m95zAhRiOwAWW0VtDpdFICFxbM0Hh3mAnhjWcLwz3WUv73iIaA_JWmD8JCWc8X0UQWCvUGc4o0931w7coI0Kh89ayYogP8hd.sfiijC1gkcK0BGBzrBWwuZbgVCrkr_yw6g1grwEL9eT7uUdLsSWyJlY_5arR35ILPrKpKStmiS Received: from [213.122.36.154] by web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m228.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40e04b830b997341 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Apologies Andy my memory is playing tricks (make a note ...it's an age thi= ng !! :) ).....maybe it was somone else.=20 On an admin point when I used to sit on a liaison committee for PMR, we he= ard that the Govt isues "free licences" so that it can retain control, set= conditons of the operation, and can of course withdraw them if it gets "e= mbarassing". I think this was the case at the time with SRBR and the later= misnamed PMR446.=20 I subscribe to Bear's philosophy too (no I never said that....I must have= been misquoted) I also believe in "Dont ask cos the easiest and safest an= swer for a Civil Serpent is 'no' " !! Nice comment from Alex on near-field....long time since we heard from you= last Alex or maybe I dont read the group enough. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Andy Talbot wrote: > From: Andy Talbot > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 20:45 > My thoughts precisely. > =A0 > The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker > of Athens in 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently > Douglas Bader > =A0 > =A0 > As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for > 8.9kHz =A0a few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity > 'after the event', whereas if I'd just gone > ahead and done it, people may have whinged on > principle. >=20 > =A0 > Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even > arranged a three way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom > themselves,=A0and=A0a representative of the=A0percveived users > of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the Spherics > lightning monitoring people. >=20 > =A0 > The latter were quite open, and said "just go > ahead",=A0 they'd see if there would be a problem (I > was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure > they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go away and consult > on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all > stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 > I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon > construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG > ground loop. >=20 > =A0 >=20 > Andy > www.g4jnt.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 22 February 2010 20:19, John > Bruce McCreath > wrote: >=20 > Hello > LFers, >=20 > I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this > side of the pond. =A0As it is very likely that the only > listeners >=20 > down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and > do it. =A0I have always found that it's better to ask > for forgiveness than to ask for permission! >=20 > 73, J.B., VE3EAR >=20 > LowFER Beacon "EAR" >=20 > 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-dc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC041-86004b8679fd28a; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:24:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 97018380000C3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkdgE-000459-ON for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkdgE-000450-Cl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkdgC-0004wI-Ck for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2010 13:22:53 -0000 Received: from 188-194-84-187-dynip.superkabel.de (EHLO Uwe) [188.194.84.187] by mail.gmx.net (mp060) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 14:22:53 +0100 X-Authenticated: #9373712 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/swyIiMDvstwXJ70aiYnJAgiUhMazT4NhZ1csemP 7LYwQ6gNzd7KHk Message-ID: From: "Uwe Wensauer" To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:22:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.56000000000000005 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b8679fb433e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Russisches Navigationssystem ALPHA Siehe auch SDR RX http://websdr.pa3weg.nl/ 73 Uwe, dk1kq ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:58 PM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z=20 range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transm= itters=20 are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in= this=20 frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achievi= ng?=20 There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF=20 and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for so= me=20 tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather=20 be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.141]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF054-5ef54b696d52391; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:34:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB01D38000219; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcePX-0003bm-G1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcePX-0003bd-0s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcePV-0007EL-8R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:46 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203123239.PNKZ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:32:39 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcePP-00089o-BI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:39 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:32:38 -0000 Message-ID: <006b01caa4cc$f9013510$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: Acqkw12iTNvcRpSsRCWNZNXvLFsGrwACXncA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=U1kdJ43tQ9_B4crrz94A:9 a=DtCB8zGhLDF4tpuFvLkA:7 a=ZJxIx6XLcthXA7yb7_yMwjLVEtwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=OJmSC9DZbHptmT43:21 a=BQKA74t12U2OE4a0:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d4b696d50076b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jay Thanks for this. Will do. Have PMd you with further details With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of jrusgrove@comcast.net Sent: 03 February 2010 11:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Jim Have been looking for your WSPR signal whenever you're active. The lowest ERP from EU received here so far was +20 dBm from G0NBD...about a dozen spots over several nights. Distance was 5198 km. The spots were in the -22 to -25 SNR range so reception of a station that is 6 dB below G0NBD should be possible. Please transmit whenever you can - there are at least several stations on this side of the pond that routinely keep an eye on 502.4 kHz. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cowburn" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:17 AM Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Rik/LF > > That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can > work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I > switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at > 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and > others in D/F. > > Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into > antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a > silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be > suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a > bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better > support away from trees! > > Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the > local ground wave signals collapse > > Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more > so than the output at the tx end > > My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a > quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right > condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to > 2000km or so. > > If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz > enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO > squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we > can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub > > Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe > Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz > > In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. > As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some > antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). > Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about > 20mW. > At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a > carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it > run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". > To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with > him, receiving a 559 report. > Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. > Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and > 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD071-8b8c4b80e2fa2e0; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:38:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3DE6A3800009E; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj6Mp-0005ZC-1t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj6Mo-0005Z3-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:38 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([204.209.205.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj6Mk-00017Y-TI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:38 +0000 Received: from edmwaa02.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edmwes73.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20100221073631.MDRC4904.priv-edmwes73.telusplanet.net@edmwaa02.telusplanet.net> for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:36:31 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edmwaa02.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 3D401347ABACC4B1 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:36:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:31 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b80e2f9282c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi All I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of effort would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Scott From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.28]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA023-b4f54b69d1e52c6; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:43:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7A9C33800019C; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncl7B-0005x7-BQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncl7A-0005wy-TH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:16 +0000 Received: from mx40.mail.ru ([94.100.176.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncl77-0002Ly-U0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:16 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=62708 helo=EFREMOV) by mx40.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ncl71-000Dfi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:42:07 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:41:26 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601c4b69d1e323e4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is just 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screenshots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b6e81f0370; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:03:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B493C38000152; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne329-0000mW-Hs for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne328-0000mN-Uw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:24 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne327-0007ZM-6m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:24 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207090217.JUMJ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:02:17 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100207090217.XQZ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:02:17 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B6E8190.12921.437089A@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=oWqlOOYPfsSEwESni7wA:9 a=47Ket77aCb0mrLG6WUCf_1Fqs28A:4 a=gmBXsakOPyV2O1YJ9SEA:9 a=MdMqCQolhZec9jNJ9i0A:7 a=q4ZLZaatkKmuSa_TX8x1tGxvAAkA:4 a=G0ln1n_d9KZFfflVf5EA:9 a=9ZAIoK-SHaOVtYsho2AdR_fZjg4A:4 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=as5XgbGqsDzByOpY:18 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-12302 Subject: LF: VO1NA X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6e81ee7141 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Message-Boundary-12302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Description: Mail message body Good signal from Joe last night, peaking at dawn here. See attached pic. Mike, G3XDV ========== --Message-Boundary-12302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Attachment information. The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: VO1NA-7Feb2010.jpg Date: 7 Feb 2010, 8:47 Size: 3800 bytes. 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from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgyI-0005nm-IL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:46 +0000 Received: from web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.121]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgyI-0006D4-E7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:46 +0000 Received: (qmail 45450 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266878500; bh=pK0+qx65FrCIpPyE8JSsjnlzyPm/k8ss/BJ9CvWoIJs=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cCeR+up2KdDtQCspmIHm1m9lDR9TwNPdj4dP0sOJOx1ruplPdlH35rkcJXapbEfrEO+qwHb192RUFfWNVq/wTxTg9i4X0WmmYd1VNl/EYrbsdKrh70R4xe8YaFPuTQLQ4UDPfvdG1X1OMmAGbNA5Nr6iJ+CBCSg5QHqqZ+DSnpM= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iyNWlBByznZVNoIbr9DoRG/jK3MHnrfQNihNfVXNf+/9oWOts+KYXZ+F0tX6VZjHsLHD0rKA0Dyi3UjO2uZfvCDPy2vjMBPsywNJlUHodCOnY4fYjtzytZjKSWGdHfOv9MtQHfaIVNKh2YQ9MSxRYrT5g2DUxuaiPxvBLdi16fA=; Message-ID: <611880.45393.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: J4sA97gVM1kJxffyiQw42CN1tjGPa5t21n40aJdDZoD2CV65V_NvBJO3fcfQIFKiy4QwCbmOiLnjxBwcYeSHlglfNnGqtS9Lu3LLXNQhjp7xWAH577XtBRbhYAiLVe787tsy32NrLfqXFolKzwOpMlDlKgfCd.VI1tyPYDB96rhGWPIHc6_oDSuBPINi9IHwBA2l_OpzFbHWvclA6WIvJQlj829fyHLacTz927VNec6kpH3sTcp5eirmnt3zjB2eZTcCGVj48ZtOUrw- Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002221356n4f423789ua3b11369dfb4fe15@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m238.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411b4b83085a4b09 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 Trouble is Roger, we as a nation can not afford the subscription......;-)) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Roger Lapthorn wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:56 It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik.=A0 Some= right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-) 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe wrote= : I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainla= nd Europe as counterweight ;-) Rik =A0ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? =A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dip= ole? 73, Chris G4OKW --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 =20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Trouble is Roger, we as a nation can not afford the subscription.....= .;-))

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Roger Lapthor= n <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.c= om>
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:56

It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe= already Rik.  Some right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-)
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wro= te:
I guess the Europea= n alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainland Europe as counte= rweight ;-)

Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

_________________________= _______________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group= @blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk]Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24
Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'
On= derwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?

 Couldn't our frie= nds in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipole?

73,
C= hris G4OKW



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http= ://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678  =    ISWL G11088

=20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA084-b5334b89c3c9d3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 47FA0380000AB; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlXjf-0005P5-Pf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlXjf-0005Ow-4l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlXjd-0007lF-5M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W29 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:14:09 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:14:08 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> References: ,<91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White>,<55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 01:14:09.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[54A30660:01CAB813] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_" Subject: RE: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b89c3c87587 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Markus et al thanks - I did another middle of the day recording usi= ng an omni eprobe -=20 =20 http://kl1x.com/alaskaloran0042z.wav 28th Feb 10 - Excuse some of the com= mon mode noise burbles.=20 =20 Unfortuately I leave for Oklahoma in a few hours so this will be it for a= while =20 Laurence WE2 xpq kl1X G4dma =20 > From: C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C >=20 > Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, >=20 >=20 > Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. >=20 > > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar= rates, walking through one another in time. >=20 > I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. >=20 > One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse= group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chitt= ering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit" and= the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of= the way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hea= r "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just befo= re half way through the recording. >=20 > The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and low= er audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through= to nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presum= ably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though= the treble will be represented by both the parts just above 90kHz and tho= se just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this= is caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what Lawrence describ= ed as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing". Could= someone more knowledgable than me comment on that? >=20 > * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see on= ly one half of the spectrum. >=20 >=20 > For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav >=20 >=20 > 73, > Chris G4OKW >=20 > ----------------------- > Dr Chris Trayner > School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, > The University of Leeds, > Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom > Tel: +44 113 34 32053 > Fax: +44 113 34 32032 >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris  Markus et al thanks - I did another middle of the day rec= ording using an omni eprobe -
 
http://kl1x.com/alaskalor= an0042z.wav  28th Feb 10 - Excuse some of the common mode noise= burbles. 
 
Unfortuately I leave for Oklahoma in a few hours so this will be it= for a while
 
Laurence WE2 xpq  kl1X  G4dma
 
> From: C.Tra= yner@leeds.ac.uk
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Sa= t, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000
> Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C
&g= t;
> Dear Markus, Lawrence and others,
>
>
> Th= anks for your interesting comments on this theme.
>
> > Th= e slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar rates= , walking through one another in time.
>
> I think I can hear= two effects which might be described as phasing.
>
> One is= due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse group= rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chittering= sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit" and the= pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of the= way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hear "c= hitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just before= half way through the recording.
>
> The other effect is a ch= ange in the relative strengths of higher and lower audio frequencies. You= can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through to nearly the end, where= the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presumably this is cancellation= in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though the treble will be repres= ented by both the parts just above 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so= presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this is caused by frequency-se= lective fading, presumably what Lawrence described as the "musical sounds= they made as sky waves did their thing". Could someone more knowledgable= than me comment on that?
>
> * Unless Lawrence was demodulat= ing as SSB, in which case he would see only one half of the spectrum.
&= gt;
>
> For those who have deleted the original message, the= recording is at
> > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
>
= >
> 73,
> Chris G4OKW
>
> -------------------= ----
> Dr Chris Trayner
> School of Electronic & Electrica= l Engineering,
> The University of Leeds,
> Leeds LS2 9JT, Uni= ted Kingdom
> Tel: +44 113 34 32053
> Fax: +44 113 34 32032>
>
>

Your E-mail= and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-mc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC084-a98e4b840368391; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:33:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C88F538000516; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxgd-000266-DW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxgc-00025x-RN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:38 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxga-0005A0-BB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:38 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NGWX98019801 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq0nlgrgPGVQm5OS1ydzGOJ574hIwAALueg References: <894020.13023.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.161221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B" Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55409 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b84035b317e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Alan, but what is the difference between a ground stake and the alu foi= l, when talking about the resistive losses? That would be also a poor qual= ity ohmic connection, isn't it? And think about how many meters of stake= you need if you want to have the same C that will be achieved by 5m*30cm= Alu foil? How much time and work for a short test. =20 Perhaps you know my /p radial for 137kHz: It is a simple copper plate of= 0,2m*25m, so 5m^2. With that configuration i reach <30 Ohm overall losses= . My coil losses are 13 Ohm, radiation resistance is 0,8 Ohm, wire losses= abt 1 Ohm and soil conductivity abt 6mS. This radial is just rolled out= on a stony field on the hill, 350m ASL (see my picture @ qrz.com). While= others bury 100s of m of cable and run 10s of meters of earth rods into= the ground i achieve earth losses of less than 15 Ohm with just such a pl= ate. In /p i do not have the nerves and time to roll out 100s of m of radi= als so i was happy to find, that this a good solution too. In my theory,= it is necessary to get a good connection to the ground by a high coupling= capacity and that means a high area metallic electrode close above ground= . Although the area is so much concentrated at the feed point, the results= are so good. So i expect that this may be a good solution on VLF as well.= =20 Trying a cheep alu foil for the household, less than 2EUR for 30m*0,3m sho= uld be worth for everyone to try if earth losses could be decreased :-) Al= most no money and/or time is needed :-) =20 73, Stefan =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 16:31 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Stefan, my comment was related to the fact that if you support the foil= a few inches above the ground that will be fine but you will get a much= smaller capacitance. If you bury it or place it on the ground you are rat= her making a poor quality ohmic connection (lotsa loss!) to the ground and= it would be better to ground the end of the wire to a good copper spike= like a "half loop". It is also quite difficult to make a good connection= to the foil, with a big capacitance there will be a lot of current flowin= g (hopefully :-)) ). If you use an HV capacitor you would connect one terminal to the end of th= e wire and the other to a ground stake. Rik had some comments on this conf= iguration at 136, but I dont think he ever tried it in practice. Alan G3NYK --- On Tue, 23/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:05 > Hi Alan, >=20 > Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be > neglectible, compared to the ground losses. And one has the > advantege to reach a high C that is easy to adjust/modify > and cheep and that has no overvoltage and heating problems. > Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same, in > principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a > lossy dielectricum? ;-) >=20 > Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, > of course, but it may be difficult to get proper C at those > voltages. And if we are talking about connecting the end of > a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the next question is: > Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A coax, > say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the > inner line. But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it > back to the shack and connecting to ground would mean not to > use the soil as the conductor any more and throwing the coax > just on the bottom would be nonsense since then, one could > just take a standard wire which is principally almost the > same like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would > mean to require 100s of m of cable to get the same C. And in > such a configuration a high C to ground is essential since > one wants to have a practicable small L for resonance (to > handle the losses). >=20 > Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs > just a high C with less voltage (probably <1kV). > If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal > section and make a rectangular loop out of it, the XL will > be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then a C of abt 1=B5F will > resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm losses > will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no > problem to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is > much easier since no L and maybe even no R transformation is > necessary. And with a horizontal section of <50m, the > increased loop area when using the ground/soil may be not > really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with > a high R and/or less Q... >=20 >=20 > Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell > his ideas. Markus? Go on! ;-) >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > > > Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I > worry that this will form a lossy capacitor because the > dielectric a think film of ali oxide will break down in > places at this voltage and also there is the inknown of the > contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can > be a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as > a capacitor in an HV pulse generator many years ago and > though the spec is 6kV it certainly survived 15kV with no > burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed this format > at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either > of us did any tests. > > I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative > old TV EHT type?? > > Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a > lot less to carry if you are operating "portable" > > Alan G3NYK ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiMQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAFZMRl84Ljc5IGtIel9ncm91 bmRpbmcgc3lzdGVtcwDOCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAXABEAIAAiAAIATwEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFwAR ACAAIgACAE8BAQmAAQAhAAAAQzVGNEIyN0I5NTQ4QTQ0NTlCQkNBRUE1OTAyQTk3ODMASgcBA5AG ALwfAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAWx68zaW0ygEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyMzE2MzIzNFotMTAyNQAAAB4ASQAB AAAAHQAAAFJlOiBBVzogQVc6IExGOiBWTEZfOC43OSBrSHoAAAAAQABOAIDUc1WdtMoBHgBaAAEA 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MAILINMF013-8bcb4b83f58c27a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:34:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A4C838000230; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwk7-0001a7-Hm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwk7-0001Zx-2g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: from web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwk5-0004P8-3H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 14144 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266939117; bh=9SEwEAVHpOGLH34C8kHLmhZbloCDomQRWF+gP1axIck=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wQhk0Jk4RQNjf/fIfO35AwKQkuMLt1bUS3GgCR7qoXCknAh+5kvkXuct21xJXHLFzG1NLZZFSMi6LqGee2Lg18ZjyYVzz0LFGsoWp2+iy1Dk+Vdevv1rl57qVIqVhiCaNXp2BmXsJPK7a8kry4TxJa0g7OFbeUIY4j0t6PxmjCw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1c3eGMMvLq38SdEEunJSi4S6U77+jtVIId3m5fAWhxk1u4PmQmXI4w6AlLQplnI3EqLeTDSgoFs1HLSBBqcbL50QuUs3kURf9knTfc2d67BVOlT63byF8H4Ih5YMM7Ei62YZNmQ5ZRs6g60plc1dCIqcGWXaOMgc/pO1C39Df7c=; Message-ID: <894020.13023.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jKJ6o9AVM1l4mSzV8PqN9.Td3oWyztLdZADZbEHnexEnfx2YfzaqFq90AMq2D9ksgCuL9zc_AOzxj99rRuWnZxuLKNHsdSx6f5eFyLDMm_mx6fcas7EuSY_TkB2brFgWgUHRsVGHfNkdz5lUqT.wsHpEX7mE9HgY3u0bOnx35fIYKD4uZCNUcwhjgxEhIH_3dglQaAPatGaUiidWrZ3ohzfVMcRPznbRXKb5Gpdj_bcVIjfgo19Fq_ip5ocCR9UuSdEMOeNRNNeMGO92399je69cckd9oUCu8PPskZIZ_RFeCLqGmaf.YFXYWlOCHbm1aJBt4zst.j4eUYdjzJXc6SNcncpp2h0mEg0- Received: from [213.122.20.214] by web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m203.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b83f5325783 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan, my comment was related to the fact that if you support the foil= a few inches above the ground that will be fine but you will get a much= smaller capacitance. If you bury it or place it on the ground you are rat= her making a poor quality ohmic connection (lotsa loss!) to the ground and= it would be better to ground the end of the wire to a good copper spike= like a "half loop". It is also quite difficult to make a good connection= to the foil, with a big capacitance there will be a lot of current flowin= g (hopefully :-)) ). If you use an HV capacitor you would connect one terminal to the end of th= e wire and the other to a ground stake. Rik had some comments on this conf= iguration at 136, but I dont think he ever tried it in practice. Alan G3NYK --- On Tue, 23/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:05 > Hi Alan, > =20 > Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be > neglectible, compared to the ground losses. And one has the > advantege to reach a high C that is easy to adjust/modify > and cheep and that has no overvoltage and heating problems. > Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same, in > principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a > lossy dielectricum? ;-) > =20 > Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, > of course, but it may be difficult to get proper C at those > voltages. And if we are talking about connecting the end of > a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the next question is: > Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A coax, > say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the > inner line. But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it > back to the shack and connecting to ground would mean not to > use the soil as the conductor any more and throwing the coax > just on the bottom would be nonsense since then, one could > just take a standard wire which is principally almost the > same like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would > mean to require 100s of m of cable to get the same C. And in > such a configuration a high C to ground is essential since > one wants to have a practicable small L for resonance (to > handle the losses). > =20 > Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs > just a high C with less voltage (probably <1kV).=20 > If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal > section and make a rectangular loop out of it, the XL will > be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then a C of abt 1=B5F will > resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm losses > will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no > problem to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is > much easier since no L and maybe even no R transformation is > necessary. And with a horizontal section of <50m, the > increased loop area when using the ground/soil may be not > really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with > a high R and/or less Q... > =20 > =20 > Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell > his ideas. Markus? Go on! ;-) > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I > worry that this will form a lossy capacitor because the > dielectric a think film of ali oxide will break down in > places at this voltage and also there is the inknown of the > contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can > be a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as > a capacitor in an HV pulse generator many years ago and > though the spec is 6kV it certainly survived 15kV with no > burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed this format > at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either > of us did any tests. >=20 > I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative > old TV EHT type?? >=20 > Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a > lot less to carry if you are operating "portable" >=20 > Alan G3NYK >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer > wrote: >=20 > > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > > Rik, Alan, > >=20 > > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > > vertical loop by using the ground. > >=20 > > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get > proper > > C (to ground), especially when talking about high > voltages > > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and > easy to > > adjust/modify... > >=20 > > Stefan > > > > ________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.80]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA042-86144b8a763531e; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:57:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D94C438000084; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:57:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nljca-0004tC-GJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nljca-0004t3-5Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NljcZ-0007nH-E6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100228135537.MPTX10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:37 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100228135537.PYWO2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:37 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B8A75D1.12660.2EE0DFA@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> In-reply-to: References: , X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=voSlNcsmpFAHsT1crycA:9 a=TmRy5l9xvA6nUyXLoveOxjx-dlwA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: WPF Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40504b8a7633063e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 It would certainly encourage Eu DX activity if there were more distant grabbers monitoring the Eu waterhole around 136.320kHz. It is also a pity that W3EEE's excellent DCF39 monitor seems to be QRT now. If all of the grabbers monitor the 137.77kHz slot it is very tempting for Eu DXers to use that frequency and cause QRM to those checking for US / Asia DX. Mike, G3XDV ========== > I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid extended beacon transmissions > in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be willing to move to the "Eu > slot", if only there were more active grabbers, also from the American > side.

<= /div>
73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.


=A0
--000e0cd1a106b681b2047f0788aa-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC102-862e4b8aa1948f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:02:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 48E2B380000BF; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlmVt-0006pI-Jq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlmVt-0006p9-20 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlmVr-0000TK-14 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:01:05 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.70]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1SH0rQg003199 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:00:53 -0500 Received: from White (e179166161.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.179.166.161]) by mtaout-mb06.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id A1ECCE000082 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:00:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:00:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29464b8aa14227cd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8aa192325c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see his interest in the matter as a positive encouragem= ent. And, best of all, it's fun. Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: tim hague=20 Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am lookin= g forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like= this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the great= er amateur community. Tim M0AFJ mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for= an=20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be= =20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > ..... ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't worry Tim. Knowing Mal's humorous way of expressing his views,= we definitely see=20 his interest in the matter as a positive encouragement.
 
And, best of all, it's fun.
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM
 

From: tim hague
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this=20 sunday
=
Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am= looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like th= is from=20 the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur= =20 community.

Tim M0AFJ
mal hamilton wrote:
> Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his= hill top=20 and face DOWN wind for an
> extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face= his=20 direction records could be
> broken without the KITE,
>= Do not=20 break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period.
>  >=20 G3KEV
>  .....
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAB89F.F5ED7050-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.83]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b673648340; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:15:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7047A380005D4; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2et-0002l5-9F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2es-0002kw-TS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:06 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2er-0001Jg-GJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:14:06 +0000 Received: from COL122-W35 ([65.55.34.7]) by col0-omc1-s1.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:13:56 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:13:57 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2010 20:13:56.0751 (UTC) FILETIME=[155271F0:01CAA37B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_" Subject: LF: 500kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60534b6736464c8f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_" --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi= =ED Microsoft https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG,= JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1= e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou technologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrova= t =3D --_e34b9c5b-3c6c-4e1c-9bdb-09651bc085ce_-- --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100201_G3KEV.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAvAo0DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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/9k= --_f0215fd4-baca-4c0f-9d0a-123f042714e6_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-mf08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF084-8bf84b7280122f3; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:44:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 44E4638000144; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:44:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf96X-000634-NO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf96X-00062v-Cx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from cpsmtpm-eml109.kpnxchange.com ([195.121.3.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nf96V-0000Lt-6q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:43:29 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 ([81.204.139.159]) by CPSMTPM-EML109.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.0.6001.18000); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:43:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3B673C42ABD24E9897F0EA5CD2C53890@ns94d01ae4d850> From: "henny van elst" To: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:43:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2010 09:43:25.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E26C8A0:01CAAA35] X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: swl 136 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b7280116a17 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Andrey, tu for the nice capture, Henny cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: "rn3agc" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:09 AM Subject: LF: swl 136 > Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, > > Captures last night: > > WD2XGJ > VO1NA > OE5ODL > G3XDV > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2678 - Release Date: 02/09/10 19:35:00 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-dd05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD053-865b4b8313872c7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:30:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D2A0238000127; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhi2-0006dk-2T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njhi1-0006db-48 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:01 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njhhz-0006g8-GP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:29:01 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1MNSulu003349 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:56 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:57 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:28:56 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B09@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B09@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaFAAJ2eR8AAP1kgQ== References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.22.232123 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32" Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55379 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b8313846789 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik,=20 Interesting! And if we think about the field pattern of such a ferrite rod= antenna it is even more interesting. Are you sure that there was no cross= -talk? =20 So, one could record a CW beacon message to a mp3-player in repeat mode an= d use an additional amplifier, say a 5...20W AF amplifier and a 12V batter= y. Yes, that my spontanous idea about that *smile*. That's an easy experim= ental beacon, not even expensive... =20 Placing this in the forrest, with 2x50m wire in a first step and grounded= at the end would be a next test for you, Rik? :-) Visit me in Heidelberg!= ;-)=20 BTW: The antenna could use a fixed L (better said 2 Ls) and could be broug= ht to resonance by the end C (e.g. the area of the aluminium foil)! The C= of such a dipole does not even have to be symmetric, i expect. If i would= have the equipment ready here i would start tomorrow in the morning :-) =20 Please support us with your results, Pete as well!! =20 73 es gn, Stefan/DK7FC =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von M0FMT Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 23:43 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik =20 So how do I load it? =20 I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting.= =20 =20 I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out.=20 =20 I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. =20 I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise.=20 If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.=20 =20 May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. =20 So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone??=20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 =20 =20 Pete, =20 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the= dissipated power. =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 =20 Hi Group =20 Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns,=20 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? =20 =20 =20 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 =20 =20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ] On Behalf Of Wa= rren Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz =20 No license is required in the US below 9kHz. =20 I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf = . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =20 >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de =20 >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB416.CDC7BF32 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFQAAAEFXOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkg a0h6AEgFAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABcAAAAcADgAAgBQAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAXAAAAHAA5AAIAUQEB CYABACEAAABGMjE3M0Y4QTQ3RjhGMjRCODJCRjFCQUEyNTZFQTZCNQBgBwEDkAYA3EwAADgAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQAyv8fNFrTKAR4APQABAAAABQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTth PSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0xMDAyMjIyMzI4NTZaLTk2OAAAAB4ASQABAAAAFQAA AFJFOiBMRjogVkxGXzguNzkga0h6AAAAAEAATgAA0fq+ErTKAR4AWgABAAAAIwAAAG93bmVyLXJz 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(helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njw64-0001Ec-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:48 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njw62-0003zL-3F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:48 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAOZ5g0tcGOlv/2dsb2JhbACNDgONenO9NoRsBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,526,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="298090015" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.233.111]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 14:50:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:50:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60894b83eb982ef4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs= . Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissio= ns but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the nove= lty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are stil= l going strong. Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fl= y by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc,= tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would= appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Drea= mers!! If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have= a suitable RX and antenna. Your observations ? de G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Generally band condx vy good at prese= nt from LF to=20 HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong= USA=20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of Amt= or, Pactor and=20 packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the=20 years.
Observations indicate that data mode= acty does not=20 last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SS= B and RTTY=20 are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty are= data but I am=20 referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all= the JT,=20 wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham operato= rs are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and th= e=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF belo= w 9 Kcs I will=20 listen out. I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
 
de G3KEV
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAB497.8577E910-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.134]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD072-86354b6926e5214; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 02:33:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DE20238000247; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcZip-0001Ue-Hr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcZio-0001UV-UG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:22 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcZim-00052b-7z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:32:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 5881 invoked by uid 507); 3 Feb 2010 08:32:04 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2010 08:32:04 +0100 Message-ID: <201002030832060446.0C663C10@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <004801caa435$cfedf1a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:32:06 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: 500 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40864b6926e3405e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 On 02/02/2010 at 18:30 mal hamilton wrote: >Presently active in cw qso mode, several PA stns plus 2 LA stns. Where >are the French and German stns? not to mention Marconi !!!!! >I thought EU was progressive !! >G3KEV France doesn't have SRPs for 500, and the EU doesn't have an FCC (yet!) 73 John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF064-8bf04b6dc7571b8; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:47:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D644A38000254; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:47:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndqbf-0005zi-CY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndqbe-0005zZ-Nw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:14 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl ([194.134.42.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndqbc-0006QY-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:46:14 +0000 Received: from smtp10.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E68240109 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp10.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:05 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:46:05 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AEC@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp10.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6dc754434a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wantedHello Stefan,Roelof, for about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The antenna is placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the hei= ght between 2 m and 9 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm= and a low output,raising it to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm= and higher output,to prevent im i decreased the size of the whip from 1m= to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this gives the besr results.no detectable im from= local mw stations and a good S/N ratio of weak signals.As an experiment I re= placed the steel pole for a glassfibre one,this didn't change any thing.This= could be espected because of the coax cable you are always at the same poten= tial as with a steel pole.Ofcourse using a battery and a glassfibre change= s things but for me this is not very practical because my whip draws 120= mA @ 28V. Hope to hear more from your experiments, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Stefan Sch=E4fer [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Nam= ens Stefan Sch=E4fer Verzonden: zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: active ant on metallic mast Hi Roelof, LF, Roelof, why do you think that this is the case? Interesting Question= ! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly" it assume. There will be a si= gnal but perhaps it is not optimal. And why could this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that is mounted to a metallic mas= t, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against the environment must be ver= y high (can be seen as infinite, i assume), compared to the active element (g= ate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a better coupling to qrm sources?= I also have to make some measurements. The antennas we use are comparale= i think. So we could share (all) share our experiences :-) A special question comes up when a optic fiber cable is used, since= in a coax application there remains a high C of the ground electrode, even= when a symmetrical transformer is used (since the active element has just a= few pF to the far field). That special question is: What will happen, when th= e case/ground electrode becomes small against the active element (e.g.= circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Will there be a change in the optimal= C of the active element to the far field? I assume, then, one has to define= an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will it behave as a short dipole?= And what about a short vertical (30cm) active antenna that is directly pla= ced on the ground with a almost ideal conducting ground plane, e.g. aluminium= foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignoring the local qrm probl= em, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)? On my new qth i made first steps to receive LF with the active anten= na mounted just 2m above ground but hung up on a wet tree. Results were= vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better when increasing the active element= since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7), but it wasn't. The optimal length was= still 30cm. That seems not only to be "sufficient" but rather optimal! So le= ss and more is worse, unaffected by the hight above gnd? I think one has to imagine the E-Field lines that are going through= the ambience. The fieldstrength seems just to be very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be found, the antenna was= also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above ground seems to essencial,= even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal can be compensated by= more gain but SNR decreases, of course. What are your ideas to these thoughts? What do you think will happen= if the ground-electrode-C becomes small against the C of the active eleme= nt? What will be the optimum C for both? Will the electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Questions over Questions ;-)=20 Recently i had the idea to test that with a variable antenna of a /p= UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode. That will be interesting to pla= y with ;-) 73!! Stefan/DK7FC ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker Gesendet: Sa 06.02.2010 13:53 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted Hello Stefan, Probably a bit late, bit I have been told that an active whip won't= work=20 well on a metalic mast. I never tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a= =20 suitable mast. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted</TITLE= > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-88= 59-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hello=20 Stefan,Roelof,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>for=20 about 4 years now I am using an active whip with good results.The ante= nna is=20 placed on a shed about 10 m from the house.I varied the height between= 2 m and 9=20 m.With a height of 2 m(the roof) I had alot of qrm and a low output,ra= ising it=20 to 5m or higher improved things a lot.Less qrm and higher output,to pr= event im i=20 decreased the size of the whip from 1m to 60 cm.At a height of 7m this= gives the=20 besr results.no detectable im from local mw stations and a good S/N ra= tio of=20 weak signals.As an experiment I replaced the steel pole for a glassfib= re=20 one,this didn't change any thing.This could be espected because of the= coax=20 cable you are always at the same potential as with a steel pole.Ofcour= se =20 using a battery and a glassfibre changes things but for me this is not= very=20 practical because my whip draws 120mA @ 28V.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Hope=20 to hear more from your experiments,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>73</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>Victor</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D314413119-06022010><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000= ff size=3D2>PA3FNY</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face= =3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<BR><B>Van:</B>= Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]<B>Namens </B>Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zaterdag 6 februari 2010 17:47<BR><B>= Aan:</B>=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> LF: active ant on= metallic=20 mast<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText11395 dir=3Dltr> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Roelof= , LF,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roelof, why do you think= that this is the=20 case? Interesting Question! "Won't work" means "Won't work properly"= it=20 assume. There will be a signal but perhaps it is not optimal. And wh= y could=20 this be the case? If the application is in a metallic housing that= is mounted=20 to a metallic mast, the capacity of the "ground electrode" against= the=20 environment must be very high (can be seen as infinite, i assume),= compared to=20 the active element (gate of the FET). Perhaps there will also be a= better=20 coupling to qrm sources? I also have to make some measurements. The= antennas=20 we use are comparale i think. So we could share (all) share our expe= riences=20 :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A special question comes= up when a optic=20 fiber cable is used, since in a coax application there remains a hig= h C of the=20 ground electrode, even when a symmetrical transformer is used (since= the=20 active element has just a few pF to the far field). That special que= stion is:=20 What will happen, when the case/ground electrode becomes small= against=20 the active element (e.g. circuit in SMD, small battery inside)?! Wil= l there be=20 a change in the optimal C of the active element to the far field? I= assume,=20 then, one has to define an optimal C ratio of both electrodes. Will= it behave=20 as a short dipole? And what about a short vertical (30cm) active ant= enna that=20 is directly placed on the ground with a almost ideal conducting grou= nd plane,=20 e.g. aluminium foil (out of the household) in a radius of 1m (ignori= ng the=20 local qrm problem, so e.g. in your garden, apart from the city)?</FO= NT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On my new qth i made firs= t steps to=20 receive LF with the active antenna mounted just 2m above ground but= hung up on=20 a wet tree. Results were vy bad. I thought that SNR could be better= when=20 increasing the active element since signals were weak (DCF39 at S7),= but it=20 wasn't. The optimal length was still 30cm. That seems not only to be= =20 "sufficient" but rather optimal! So less and more is worse, unaffect= ed by the=20 hight above gnd?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think one has to imagin= e the E-Field=20 lines that are going through the ambience. The fieldstrength seems= just to be=20 very small in a lossy environment (on my hill, where no trees can be= found,=20 the antenna was also 2m up and DCF39 was S9+20). So hight above grou= nd seems=20 to essencial, even without local qrm. Each decrease of input signal= can be=20 compensated by more gain but SNR decreases, of course.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What are your ideas to th= ese thoughts?=20 What do you think will happen if the ground-electrode-C becomes smal= l against=20 the C of the active element? What will be the optimum C for both? Wi= ll the=20 electrodes have the same "importance", like as a short dipole? Quest= ions over=20 Questions ;-) </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Recently i had the idea= to test that with=20 a variable antenna of a /p UKW radio, perhaps two for each electrode= . That=20 will be interesting to play with ;-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>73!! Stefan/DK7FC</FONT><= /DIV></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR> <HR tabIndex=3D-1> <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>Von:</B> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org im=20 Auftrag von Roelof Bakker<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sa 06.02.2010=20 13:53<BR><B>An:</B> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<BR><B>Betreff:</B>= Re: LF:=20 AW: Re: test signal wanted<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Hello Stefan,<BR><BR>Probably a bit late, bit I ha= ve been told=20 that an active whip won't work <BR>well on a metalic mast.<BR>I= never=20 tried it myself (still on the to do list) due to lack of a <BR>= suitable=20 mast.<BR><BR>73,<BR>Roelof,=20 pa0rdt<BR><BR></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01CAA76D.674AA720-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IgUTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5N aWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANoHAgAGABQALgAA AAYAMQEBA5AGAPQDAAAeAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4A AAAAAAMANgAAAAAAHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAYWN0aXZlIGFudCBvbiBtZXRhbGxpYyBtYXN0AAIB cQABAAAAIAAAAAHKpywc8q0oQVufKUO+mD2/SWyux34ABsKKAQAG9ncgAgEdDAEAAAAYAAAA U01UUDpWSUNUT1IxM0BPTkxJTkUuTkwACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAEz3AWWnygECAQoOAQAAABgA AAAAAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYMKAAAAeAEIQAQAAAFcAAAA8MzhBNTFCNzRCODg0RDc0 MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRUNARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsu dHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAACwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAOA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKF AAB9bgEAHgAJgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOS4wAAsADYAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAAHgAOgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAg4UAAAEA AAATAAAAMzE0NDEzMTE5LTA2MDIyMDEwAAALADqACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAA AAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwA9gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAG+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAAAAAAAMAcIAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAg8kEfu+9E0ylLT9BsvsxYAIB +g8BAAAAEAAAAIPJBH7vvRNMpS0/QbL7MWACAfsPAQAAAJgAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgA KypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABEOlxEb2N1bWVudHMg YW5kIFNldHRpbmdzXFZpY3RvclxMb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5nc1xBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBEYXRhXE1p Y3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAAADIA AAA8QkRFTUtGQ05MTUlJTEdJRk5PTk5JRUlEREhBQS52aWN0b3IxM0BvbmxpbmUubmw+AAAA IcE= ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CAA76D.67483620-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.80]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA074-86674b6cc2223d6; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7DAC438000197; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZCv-0000xY-Vj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZCv-0000xP-JF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from imr-da02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <F4DTL@aol.com>) id 1NdZCt-0007xi-5L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:11:33 +0000 Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-da02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o161BK4j022359 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:20 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.c17.7583b3c8 (34935) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.170]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA048-b2524b6cc1a7e1; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:15 -0500 Received: from magic-d07.mail.aol.com (magic-d07.mail.aol.com [172.19.180.73]) by smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE036-b2524b6cc1a7e1; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:03 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:11:03 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.154.107 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/0 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40504b6cc220370b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary" --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber) F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP RX: PM-SDR Ant: Miniwhip _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18876"></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=3Dr= ole_body bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7><F= ONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> <DIV>Hello LF, maybe UA4PWF ? Nice LF conditions tonite (RN3AGC's grabber)= </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#8000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman" PTSI= ZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><B><I>F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP<BR></FONT><FONT lan= g=3D1 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 face=3DArial PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SANSS= ERIF"></B></I>RX: PM-SDR<BR>Ant:=20 Miniwhip</FONT></DIV> <DIV><B><I><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman= " PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000f= f size=3D3 face=3DArial PTSIZE=3D"12" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B></I><A hr= ef=3D"http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/">http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/= </A></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_alt_boundary-- --part1_195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7_boundary Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Balise PW QRSS60.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4QDrRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEBAgAhAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAawAA 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[193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 28DAE380001CC; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:11:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nibyc-0007RA-M6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nibyc-0007R1-6O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from mail1.ssmb.com ([199.67.179.103] helo=mail.citigroup.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <marco.scholz@citi.com>) id 1Nibyb-0003Yp-Cm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0000 Received: from imbhub-mw01.nam.nsroot.net ([159.17.94.188]) by imbaspam-ny03.ssmb.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/SSMB_EXT/ev: 24741 $) with ESMTP id o1JMdIVD018849 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:21 GMT Received: from exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net (exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net [169.186.207.97]) by imbhub-mw01.nam.nsroot.net (Switch-3.4.1/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o1JMdGCa011805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:17 GMT Received: from exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.219.14]) by exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net ([169.186.207.97]) with mapi; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:16 +0000 From: "Scholz, Marco " <marco.scholz@citi.com> To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:39:15 +0000 Thread-Topic: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH TNX XBAND QSO 40m/137KHz DD7PC Thread-Index: Acqxrpu5PN9rH7WSRYC1ygcop1jZPwABSIrQ Message-ID: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A242A@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> References: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl In-Reply-To: <69a4601.27de160b.4b7f081d.65268@go2.pl Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB x-wiganss: 01000000010018exlniht01.eur.nsroot.net ID0044<16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D437342A242A@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 199.67.177.41 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH TNX XBAND QSO 40m/137KHz DD7PC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b7f1a874a8a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Marcin, Many, many thanks for the nice XBAND QSO 7.025KHz (CW) / 137.705KHz (QRSS3= ) (my 1st one). Your signal is "O" now. Thanks for "466". I will send my QSO card direct. GL vy73 Marco DD7PC RX 137KHz: Teletron TE-704 + Miniwhip TX 40m: FT-857, FD4 Windom ant., 100W -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of bxi@go2.pl Sent: 19 February 2010 22:52 To: rsgb_lf_group @ blacksheep. org Subject: LF: Re: RE: Special evening Station SN0JH Marco, recivinag at 7,025MHz and 137,705kHz. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI Hello Marcin, The signal of SN0JH is "M" in the moment. I'm sure signal will improve lat= er and then i send a snapshot. Just a short question is SN0JH able to operate crossband 80m (CW) / 137KHz= (QRSS3)? vy73 Marco DD7PC, JN49ax -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] On Behalf Of Marcin Sent: 19 February 2010 21:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Special evening Station SN0JH Dear LF Special Evening Station SN0JH qrv started now 137,700kHz QRSS 3s. 73! Marcin SQ2BXI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.86]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b8abc421d5; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:56:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A9701380000A2; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:56:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NloI7-0008Lh-Ew for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NloI7-0008LY-4H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <fitec@omskcity.com>) id 1NloI5-000192-79 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:54:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1SIsqlF027733 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 00:54:53 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA00220 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:59:55 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:59:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" <fitec@omskcity.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <CDD8913BA26C4C4BAA031227912ECF60@Black> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.1100301013359.218A-100000@noname.nodomain.nowhere> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:54:55 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: LF: 9kHz without high voltage Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a44b8abc40275f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) I was wonder if it is posible to use a loop on 9 kHz. Serious problem to radiate 9 kHz is high voltage we saw. Loop has that advantage that voltage is not too high. Then i do some estimations. Let's assume vertical loop 15m x 50 m with 20 mm diameter coper tube as a wire. Then effectivity of such a loop on 9 kHz is about -65 dB. It is adequate to radiate 1 mW on 9kHz (I=250A, TX power about 4 kW). We saw such a radiation should give abt 100 km distance in QRSS. Besides such a loop is wellsuited for 136 kHz. On 136 kHz it effectivity should be about -25 dB. Not too bad: 1 W radiation with 400 W TX :-) Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.219]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA092-86194b70f51e313; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:39:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6171B380001A9; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:39:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeinN-0002Vt-BN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeinM-0002Vk-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:56 +0000 Received: from smtp08.online.nl ([194.134.42.53]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <victor13@online.nl>) id 1NeinJ-0006Zg-Qe for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:37:56 +0000 Received: from smtp08.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp08.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0DC660B9 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp08.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 (CET) From: <victor13@online.nl> To: "blacksheep" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:37:49 +0100 Message-ID: <BDEMKFCNLMIILGIFNONNKEJBDHAA.victor13@online.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp08.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40db4b70f51c2664 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, received VO1NA and RN3AGC with some holes because off my 500KHz wspr transmissions (15% tx) 73 Victor ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="rn3agc.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rn3agc.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEB AgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAAZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0Qg U3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIEltYWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjowOSAwNjoyNToyMgAFAACQBwAEAAAA MDIyMJCSAgAEAAAANzQwAAKgBAABAAAABQEAAAOgBAABAAAAJAAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAA AAACAAEAAgAEAAAAUjk4AAIABwAEAAAAMDEwMAAAAAAAAAAA/8AAEQgAJAEFAwEiAAIRAQMR Af/bAIQAAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB/8QAuQAAAQQDAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAABQQGBwkC AwgBCgAQAAICAQMCBAEGBwgMDwAAAAIDAQQFBhESBxMACBQhIgkVIzEyQTNCUXFyc7IKFiQ0 NYGxwRclVWFidJSztcLS0zZDUlRWdYKDkZaktNXi4wEAAgMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUCAwYH AQARAAICAQMDAwMCBQIHAAAAAAIDAQQFERITAAYhFCIxFSNBMlEHFjNhgUJxJFJikaGxsv/a AAwDAQACEQMRAD8A+CBr05HHKBzm+uoxC0IRQrChtaInuHYtKlL+6rYI5NTZlgzyJyuMCc+Y 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PPq0hGpGZz/PkH85n5y/YnX6BX7h7++PadfU+Cn9j4rOlgL9y905kguWW2xqlTGt7k+8VcTO IIEGwSNSy0O1gQhMxvjM/ISANZPISLkMV+0MH8+CxKTgV8xLtRBeY4SM6mY3IlMD99XWdZ1n Sf6h9Z1nWdZ1nrPWdZ1nWdZ6z1//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CAA952.65B9D390-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB013-a1874b673dbc18a; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:46:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B77423800027D; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc39g-00037n-0v for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:45:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc39f-00037e-Iu for 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<Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:41:53 +0100 Thread-Topic: early copy of VX9MRC Thread-Index: AQHKo3+GSKQfRu8plEmE23LGdVmGrA== Message-ID: <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: early copy of VX9MRC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b673dba4096 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VX9MRC was audible early and peaked 559 at 20:10 UTC. For the last half hour the signal is up and down in QRM/QRN between Q3 and= Q5. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html dir=3D"ltr"><head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859= -1"> <style></style> <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18882"> <style title=3D"owaParaStyle"><!--P { =09MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px } --></style> </head> <body bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" ocsi=3D"x"> <p>VX9MRC was audible early and peaked 559 at 20:10 UTC.</p= > <p><font face=3D"times new roman">For the last half hour the signal is up= and down in QRM/QRN between Q3 and Q5.</font></p> <p><font face=3D"times new roman"></font> </p> <p><font face=3D"times new roman">73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T</font></p> </body> </html> --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1284D4B333ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-db07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB073-86494b710a941b0; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:11:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 99648380001AA; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 02:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NekEJ-0002fX-V0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NekEJ-0002fO-HS for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <john.rabson@numeo.fr>) id 1NekEH-000755-7a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:09:51 +0000 Received: (qmail 1844 invoked by uid 507); 9 Feb 2010 08:09:31 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2010 08:09:31 +0100 Message-ID: <201002090809330429.07DB3468@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> References: <PAEFLMFGBDKKCONLMLBICEBNDHAA.ganymede444@btopenworld.com> <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> <fc7eccec1002081350q6cb8e99ah112c1e1da5c61f05@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:09:33 +0100 From: "John RABSON" <john.rabson@numeo.fr> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4b710a9248a1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 On 08/02/2010 at 21:50 Andy Talbot wrote: >The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. > >Andy Not to mention borrowing one of the masts (Puckeridge?) for some tests. John Rabson F5VLF 58800 Cervon France JN17vg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.94]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b6f26b63cb; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:46:46 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5CFE938000115; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:46:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0m-0004HL-OF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE0m-0004HC-9w for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from mout7.freenet.de ([195.4.92.97]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de>) id 1NeE0l-0003pG-BB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:44 +0000 Received: from [195.4.92.24] (helo=14.mx.freenet.de) by mout7.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.70 #1) id 1NeE0j-0006Mv-HY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:45:41 +0100 Received: from p57af16c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.175.22.200]:1218 helo=2a2d7ed321c6425) by 14.mx.freenet.de with esmtpa (ID beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de) (port 25) (Exim 4.72 #1) id 1NeE0i-0001rW-Je for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:45:41 +0100 From: "Beckmann, Gerhard" <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:45:37 +0100 Message-ID: <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcqoKoP9TPwffoWJTrKb66VIuHnFngACz3Yg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405e4b6f26b4615c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good evening Gary, LF first reception of your CQ-Call this evening at - 20 dB !!! 203600 16 -20 -0.4 -48 31 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 Condx seem to be not too good.. However, JT4A is just working !!! best 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI (JN59LN) ======= _____ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 20:17 An: LF Group (RSGB) Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas= -microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off= ice:word" xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xml= ns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-a= scii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com= :office:smarttags" name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Tahoma; =09panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:purple; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.E-MailFormatvorlage17 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} @page Section1 =09{size:595.3pt 841.9pt; =09margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Goo= d evening <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Gary</st1:place= ></st1:City>, LF<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>fir= st reception of your CQ-Call this evening at – 20 dB !!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>203= 600 16  -20 -0.4  -48 31 *      CQ G4WGT IO83   &nbs= p;         1   0<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Con= dx seem to be not too good….<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How= ever, JT4A is just working !!!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:= p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>best 73 de Gerh= ard  //  DK6NI  (JN59LN)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Rom= an"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> </span></font><o= :p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Von:</span></font= ></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font= -family:Tahoma'> owner-<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org</st1:PersonName> [mailto:owner-<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">r= sgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</st1:PersonName>] <b><span style=3D'font-w= eight:bold'>Im Auftrag von </span></b>Gary - G4WGT<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Gesendet:</span></b> Sonntag, 7.= Februar 2010 20:17<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>An:</span></b> LF Group (RSGB)<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Betreff:</span></b> LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Hi LF,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mod= e tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal freq= uency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>73,  Gary - G4WGT.<o:p></o:p></span></fo= nt></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CAA83E.E440C850-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-di03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI031-eabe4b80255937; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:09:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B9AD38000094; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NitkP-0002vT-Rh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NitkP-0002vK-Bn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from fmmailgate01.web.de ([217.72.192.221]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <horst.stoecker@web.de>) id 1NitkN-0000iB-N9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0000 Received: from mwmweb078 (mwmweb078.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.18.96]) by fmmailgate01.web.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FD414831DC6 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:08:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:08:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?UTF-8?Q?Horst_St=C3=B6cker?= <horst.stoecker@web.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <11800210.1207699.1266689280876.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+eQERW+o0SN9W7Bq9HpRUQQ+jwneM1bmSmCMVtRHMVJI1mcB/836Zi cVIkH5um9hlsbUb3kNk18X0UlmOnTDl3GF+25Cni++6BsBdXUjfH44iSgkHIJe20 ooutjUWBGvnW0Z+DPem5fyLjJhgDM/nTQyilwa9wsNI= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b802558365c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Despite I do not expect that anyone will receive the transmission, I'll gi= ve it a try. The beacon ist transmitting on 8.79 kHz in QRSS until tomorrow morning. Horst DO1KHS ___________________________________________________________ GRATIS f=C3=BCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.211]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI024-eabd4b6f31d6325; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:34:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 695053800018B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:34:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEkm-0005ee-SP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEkm-0005eV-3W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.cowburn@virgin.net>) id 1NeEkk-0004Rl-6j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:16 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207213307.HCYD4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:33:07 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <james.cowburn@virgin.net>) id 1NeEkd-0003ve-BW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:33:07 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" <james.cowburn@virgin.net> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:33:05 -0000 Message-ID: <007901caa83d$225be680$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoOs+4pG5fLK1KQ/mK5bate1dURwAAV9HAAAAz5OA= X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=pU8Q4LAerKSIRjyLqo4A:9 a=B4fd2zP1z6Xf9OXGuU4A:7 a=SB5pkSPxhYDSBVR2TCiAJxMMTagA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=rJwkGUO-Q5LeIkv-:21 a=BIu0W2uxkc6iJgW5:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=o6XQ1eyzeWyMYu10WpkA:9 a=Umgs_UfnS3cgxzx017IA:7 a=EA60cvhFoaTP91EKXqheXH21MlsA:4 a=W2t9Lo4zkEQ7DDfa:21 a=S4wkdX6N5qOdqwDh:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d34b6f31d4348f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got all to RRR so many thanks for persisting. I now understand the message sequence too Thanks Gary _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Cowburn Sent: 07 February 2010 21:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn 26 Birch Close Broom Biggleswade Beds SG18 9NR T +44 (0) 1767 600522 M+44 (0) 7967 300152 E <blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net> james.cowburn@virgin.net The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not read this message. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 21:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote: Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas= -microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off= ice:word" xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xml= ns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-asc= ii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"= > <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com= :office:smarttags" name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smart= tags" name=3D"place"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face =09{font-family:Tahoma; =09panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face =09{font-family:"Freestyle Script"; =09panose-1:3 8 4 2 3 2 5 11 4 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal =09{margin:0cm; =09margin-bottom:.0001pt; =09font-size:12.0pt; =09font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed =09{color:blue; =09text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 =09{mso-style-type:personal; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} span.style10ptitalicblack =09{font-family:Arial; =09color:black; =09font-style:italic;} span.EmailStyle20 =09{mso-style-type:personal-reply; =09font-family:Arial; =09color:navy;} span.Style10ptItalicBlack0 =09{font-family:Arial; =09color:black; =09font-style:italic;} @page Section1 =09{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; =09margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 =09{page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Got all to RRR= so many thanks for persisting.   I now understand the message sequence too<o:p>= </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks Gary<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><span class=3DStyle10ptItalicBlack0><i><font size=3D2 colo= r=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o= :p></span></font></i></span></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></fon= t></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:Tahoma'> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] <b><span style=3D'font-wei= ght:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>James Cowburn<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 07 February 2010= 21:27<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Great, have rep= lied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!)  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:= p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>With best regards</span>= </font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span= ></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><strong><b><font size=3D6 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Freestyle= Script"><span style=3D'font-size:24.0pt; font-family:"Freestyle Scrip= t";color:navy'>Jim</span></font></b></strong><font color=3Dnavy><span= style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font= ></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dr. James Cowbu= rn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>26 Birch Close<= o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Broom<o:p></o:p= ></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Biggleswade<o:p= ></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Beds<o:p></o:p>= </span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>SG18 9NR<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span st= yle=3D'font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> <o:p></o:= p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>T +44= (0) 1767 600522<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>M+44= (0) 7967 300152<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span la= ng=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>E </sp= an></font><font color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:A= rial;color:blue'><a href=3D"blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net"= title=3D"blocked::mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net"><font size=3D2><sp= an lang=3DDE style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><span title=3D"blocked::mailto= :james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net</span></span></fon= t></a></span></font><font color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span lang=3DDE st= yle=3D'font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span= lang=3DDE style=3D'font-size:12.0pt; color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></s= pan></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto= m-alt:auto'><span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font size=3D2 color= =3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The information= transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pri= vileged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that you must not read this message.</span></font></i></span><i><font size= =3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f= amily:Arial; color:black;font-style:italic'><br> <span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font color=3Dblack face=3DArial= >Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action= in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the= intended recipient is prohibited.  Consequently, this email is not intende= d to be contractually binding.</font></i></span><br> <span class=3Dstyle10ptitalicblack><i><font color=3Dblack face=3DArial= >If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the message= as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.<o:p></o:p><= /font></i></span></span></font></i></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><fon= t size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'fo= nt-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></fon= t></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon= t-family:Tahoma'> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>G= ary - G4WGT<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 07 February 2010= 21:15<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: LF: RE: Re= : 503.600 kHz JT4A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.<o:p></= o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>211100  4  -20  0.1   &nb= sp;2 32 *      G4WGT G7NKS IO92          1   0&nb= sp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><st1:place w:st=3D= "on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><s= pan style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Gary</span></font></st1:City></st1:plac= e>.<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net</a= >> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 fac= e=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Sorry I knocked= the VFO!<br> <br> Thanks for the report<br> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <a href=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org</a><br> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">owner-rs= gb_lf_group@blacksheep.org</a>] On Behalf Of James Moritz<br> Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35<br> To: <a href=3D"mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org">rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org</a><br> Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A<br> <br> Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,<br> <br> Pretty solid copy of both signals here...<br> <br> 02000 27   -4  0.7  -77 34 *      CQ G4W= GT IO83             1   0<br> 202101 11   -3  0.0  -70 33 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202201 23   -4 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202301  1  -11  0.1  -70 44 *<br> 202401 22   -5 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202501 12   -3  0.1  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202601 23   -7 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202701 10   -3  0.0  -92 22 *      G4WGT= G7NKS IO92          1   0<br> 202801 24   -9 -0.3  -77 33 *      CQ G4WGT= IO83             1   0<br> 202901 10   -3 -0.3  -92 22 *      G4WGT G7NK= S IO92          1   0<br> <br> The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in<br> frequency by about 20Hz.<br> <br> Cheers, Jim Moritz<br> 73 de M0BMU<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span sty= le=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01CAA83D.225BE680-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Received: from mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.146]) by air-md09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD093-8b964b826b9e117; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:33:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E0507380000A0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWWu-0000a2-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjWWu-0000Zt-3A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>) id 1NjWWr-0000dJ-NI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:48 +0000 Received: from freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.204]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1MBWgnT031342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:42 +0100 Received: from [129.206.29.70] (pc70.iup.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.29.70]) by freitag.iup.uni-heidelberg.de (8.12.11.20060308/8.11.2) with ESMTP id o1MBWgkY020516 for <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:31 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan=5FSch=E4fer?= <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010907040703040903040105" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40924b826b9c279b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------010907040703040903040105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id o1MBWgnT031342 Ok Roger, And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well?= =20 What about the UK? If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build a big=20 antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the wire high above=20 ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do you mean with=20 amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround 500W+-6dB. But=20 the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna in the garden,= =20 say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about 2x500m in a forrest,=20 perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a ferrite toroid i=20 think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That could be interesting and= =20 easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, just 2 wires hung up on some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the feed point, that would be a=20 first step. This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF it is the=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and make some=20 contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much easier on=20 40/80m... And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, the=20 fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But=20 that are dreams... Stefan/DK7FC Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are=20 > probably the best "antenna". There are references to how these work=20 > in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s,=20 > available on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham=20 > sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern=20 > signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= =20 > power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at=20 > 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for=20 > 100s of kms. > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de=20 > <mailto:schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>> > > Hello Horst, > > That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an > interesting field to test. > > Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for > that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside > your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some > trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also > 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the > ODX would be interesting... > > JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) > > What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > > 73, Stefan > > PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > <mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> im Auftrag von Horst > St=F6cker > Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <mailto:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g> > Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > > > > Hallo Stefan, > > there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the > range <9kHz is free. > > I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I > got a letter which confirmed that. > > So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do > not need one. > > There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or powe= r. > > Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > > My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > > Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE <http://web.de/> DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > > > > > > > --=20 > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --=20 ---------------------------- Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t Heidelberg Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de --------------010907040703040903040105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title> Ok Roger,

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build a big antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the wire high above ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do you mean with amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround 500W+-6dB. But the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna in the garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about 2x500m in a forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a ferrite toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That could be interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, just 2 wires hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the feed point, that would be a first step.
This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF it is the same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and make some contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much easier on 40/80m...
And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, the fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)

Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?

With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i expect. But that are dreams...

Stefan/DK7FC




Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably the best "antenna".  There are references to how these work in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
 
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms.
 
73s
Roger G3XBM


 
2010/2/22 Stefan Schäfer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hello Horst,

That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)

What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VLF stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst Stöcker
Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which confirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
___________________________________________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL über 1000,- ¿ sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088


-- 
----------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Schäfer
Institut für Umweltphysik der Universität Heidelberg
Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany

schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405

www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
--------------010907040703040903040105-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.32]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI021-eaba4b6f19c0118; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:51:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1DE5E3800039D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:51:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD97-0003hZ-N6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeD97-0003hQ-94 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeD94-0003QH-Tq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2436561pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:50:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=XBmsj8qddeC6HpUU0fSlljhrtgh/U9aK9Wye74LIt2c=; b=UbEt3Pp3/era61OCiREjm0WjkMnFIe8c6b3Q/jJxWPIY/c2DQlO0AY/Y7JWIdsG7r6 ugSoLchckAGF1bMJeA+WYpSf9KdXm3LYn3/JzOhuergiB2JgPJTmCfd5G7hO8iW0v/CO +HtnLgCllFtOExDvRNrSMAZJ2bVTwkfR3zId4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Mlw1F9H/5iF0JTt+K5YLChxmOpMbxAWgNbdq9V9sxbKOhGc6FnYewQMsjP43YOMFuf y1ZrNWp8VAgwlTCbylyooj/GFyQ/e6KvS/eTkxsEi23ViDuYot/Q4AXYUyRFTeFvgz6M Ppj5lfbAmgY1RDLR+ZH71sEYL26bFGs4bAMCw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.88.13 with SMTP id q13mr3877994rvl.45.1265572206812; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:50:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:50:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 867a324688e97c04 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b6f19be11f4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

Up & running now, just had a comms port sna= g, another app was holding the port.

GUD LUK, Gar= y - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, Jam= es Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> ow= ner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] On Behalf Of Gary= - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode ton= ight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 50= 3.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd13a66d321c9047f07fd4d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-de03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE034-5ead4b6e82cc207; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:07:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B497838000183; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:07:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne36C-0000sn-JR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne36C-0000se-8L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne36B-0007eQ-H3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:36 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207090629.FOFG4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:06:29 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100207090629.YNL2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:06:29 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:06:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B6E828D.1087.43AE30E@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=Cz5BHNvTWQjdRtcwns4A:9 a=yJ-36n7OyqJUCpOxSzFQucij2MwA:4 a=gmBXsakOPyV2O1YJ9SEA:9 a=MdMqCQolhZec9jNJ9i0A:7 a=NMLK_S_V9v6U1a-KU9LLryidzlQA:4 a=JyWztMpJTsE1cA7kAvAA:9 a=qb_MkHqKE0X0L1WXQ8k3So2lV84A:4 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=gJ3t0dpKdzSEvcAW:18 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-11729 Subject: LF: East meets west X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164b6e82ca1fcb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Description: Mail message body Lots of activity around 137.77kHz last night. Here is a screen grab taken at around 2300UTC showing a 'G' from OE3GHB, a 'Y' from RA3YO and a 'V' from VO1NA. Also saw good sigs earlier from RN3AGC. Mike. G3XDV ========== --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Attachment information. The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg Date: 7 Feb 2010, 8:54 Size: 3702 bytes. Type: JPEG-image --Message-Boundary-11729 Content-Type: Image/JPEG; name="OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OE3GHB-RA3YO-VO1NA.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDAA0JCgsKCA0LCgsODg0PEyAVExISEyccHhcgLikxMC4p LSwzOko+MzZGNywtQFdBRkxOUlNSMj5aYVpQYEpRUk//2wBDAQ4ODhMREyYVFSZPNS01T09PT09P T09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0//wAARCABFAMgDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAGgAAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQAAgUBBv/EAEMQAAIBAwIDBAYHBQQLAAAAAAEC AwAEEQUSEyExQYGRoQYiUWFxsRQjMkJSwdEVYnKC4RYkM6IHQ1NUY3SSssLw8f/EABgBAQEBAQEA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgMF/8QAIxEAAgIDAAEDBQAAAAAAAAAAAAECERIhMUEDImEycoGh8P/aAAwD AQACEQMRAD8A8DNcM59dEJH4Vwf0qQzInPc4b3KPnmmNOWYAm3lttxHNHk2E/DNAk+jxysJ4ZTJ7 5fV8hXoturs5jsN/cRwlY2EYb7/HY+W6kJ5LlyQ8pMZ7gagZI1zEYwzfhc8vEVQSsSElyw9gwPPF G01QOiNORUq59mT+lcm2BfsBW7x866FbfiNWQe8k1SRRv5ZLDt6io+AvbQC5JCyJGw5+ucZoxuLy FNjyy8LphGyp8DXIzNMNrYZR93Oyqske3bgMfZuJxVSpaBRGzIGjQg+9s+Oa0tS1LVZ7KOG7aF4V 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VqaS4Q5I7ld292z2SHdQw5ckFYx8FxUqVyXUUCznO3AxT1vqM1ogEeST/wARh5AipUqQ8lGr24uJ bQStLtLdVQYB+NZkCCRiuWHwNSpV9X6kRcOsojUglmHs3YqW8as2Cqn41KlRLgJcqQ+MjuFDjJBy MZHbipUpKKyL4HFkElqwIYkfibNJMUz/AIfT31KlJO42yLo7DCBamYMQPw5NSpUrTdJUD//Z --Message-Boundary-11729-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.23]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b86ec6f151; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E8568380000B9; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NklIe-00080M-OV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NklIe-00080D-BO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f178.google.com ([209.85.221.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NklIc-0000HL-Ka for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:31:12 +0000 Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1266888qyk.4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3UicbI7KJy37icZPhJlmBvKAfkK9wZveWr3cNKqZtDY=; b=NwL+5uvezAplt8F4BKoc29NbqsaXLFNL35ShpOARF7Ge44v8m7Pk0vmUOcXXpEORFy ekftWgId/Msc1yYVRsrJEQ+dnvXBr7azeViiiY6rMh+2+7qPVxpT5LGRnDAvLkXP2uNq WEN/rSz0qMgllX3zHSCH43FX92PvXL8MOU0fg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=GPl2RToppqU1DX4dDklvTD9fenSJ1rboUjOAtwt3QNbpJppqXRR+52I92aAFl1eaZX dXI8l6m1ukSrC9rPOQ8iKd+kUmu7lYclgXbH9gYkVS/oi35VMVzx+cAFDy4W3T+qxMSV K8aT0SggvkqmVOfRz1aHtLb0xQnyk/Zw9gees= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.115.81 with SMTP id h17mr6833qaq.231.1267133462250; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m245.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41174b86ec6d649e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > >> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received >> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. > > [...] >> >> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as >> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act >> 2006. [...] > > there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, > they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one continent > can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the radio > authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths > (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority > and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usually > 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) > > sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask > at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will > need a license for that" clause. > > if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential > electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or > any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you > would probably get an entirely different answer :) > > VY 73 > > Jacek / SQ5BPF > > ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC024-86a04b6aa6143e; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:48:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DFCF9380000B0; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 05:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NczFh-0002de-FN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NczFh-0002dV-2J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NczFf-0007sG-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:48:01 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o14AltWn012016 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:47:56 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:47:57 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:43:00 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE3@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Re: Re: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqlNwcxLh4GBuD/TR6ZXl6ViAgJBwAT8tZi References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <132E5B4C5BE74CB88E5411BF10DC90B6@JimPC> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.4.103922 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1" Subject: LF: AW: Re: Re: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b6aa6120129 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Jim! =20 There was no chance to get your signal. I am living in a student living co= ounity, for 2 months. In each room there is a PC, so i assume the noise le= vel is very high here. The E-field antenna seems to be sensitive to a loss= y environment if it is just near the antenna. DCF39 was even to weak, just= S5 to S7, so the field seems to be short cutted by the conducting tree (h= igh gamma and epsilon r). But since we did our CW QSO with this active ant= enna, it cannot be due to the antenna but rather to the environment at the= actual qth... Will improve... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von James Moritz Gesendet: Do 04.02.2010 02:07 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: Re: Re: test signal wanted Dear Stefan, LF Group, I shut the beacon down at 0102utc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted > Dear Stefan, LF Group, > > DFCW test signal now on 137.710kHz... > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA587.82E041C1 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAEFXOiBSZTogUmU6IHRlc3Qg c2lnbmFsIHdhbnRlZAAVCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAEAAsAKwAAAAQAIQEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIABAAL AC8AOAAEAF0BAQmAAQAhAAAAQjQ3OTk5QzgzNENBOEU0Qjk0QzU0RjBFM0NCQzQwNEYAXgcBA5AG AKwRAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAhVyK0oalygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAA MgAAAGM9REU7YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjA0MTA0NzU2Wi0zNTcAAAAe AEkAAQAAAB8AAABMRjogUmU6IFJlOiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAEAATgCAo4VjNqXKAR4A 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14 Feb 2010 06:03:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=75oZ4wTSbrRdd5Qxe1UUyW+o5feEGuq+V8zT00Oav0M=; b=I60wImDWeOj+amMDPFCsh36bWDGCQ+Q3tbLQltVGfp8TbjdI+t0/FAJ/krO2oCtOXR E2YOn87M3yTK9BHjKje4DFM7tRnNPS3rUTKkxEp41Vg5c5D61UsgAGmP1It665VYffzg rC77X7lYBL4vbzwkXPYM4Sa9eZfw90dF2/U9s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=eCDhN5BwTFkfKoKeANi65Q7vA8RfCCSnCMtgUm32HO/3FEXcidJ7FqsvhCscG0aL2W 2ddPeDxr+kHz6S7oGon6iFVYN1mqyI/Ex3KnmGNpvI23vibp46VBSYy3bDWqojPqApMR fWfuHuPE9kJJPpxCLAI5aCURr+XHcv8AG5teA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.90.20 with SMTP id s20mr2639854rvl.80.1266156230685; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:03:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:03:50 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2c587ca60b7ccaf1 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002140603o60d5c353qa636a3c8bd565eca@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 500kHz WSPR QSO WE2XGR/2 <-> M0BMU Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m223.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b78032c2021 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, LF, Nice going Jim. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 14 February 2010 01:45, James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD > tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decoded > messages went like this: > > 000400 5 -28 0.1 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 > 001600 6 -26 0.0 70 0 CQ M0BMU IO91 > > 003002 4 -26 -0.1 51 0 M0BMU <...> S1 > > 004400 4 -29 0.0 70 0 WE2XGR R S1 > > 005002 5 -26 -0.1 51 0 WE2XGR RRR > > 010000 9 -24 -0.2 70 0 73 DE M0BMU IO91 > > 010602 7 -26 0.1 51 0 73 DE WE2XGR FN31 > > Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO? > > M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > --000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, LF,

Nice going Jim.

73,= Gary - G4WGT.


On 14 February= 2010 01:45, James Moritz <james.moritz@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear LF Group,

I was pleased to complete a 2-way WSPR mode QSO with Jay, WE2XGR/2 / W1VD= tonight. Conditions were not great, so it took quite a while - the decode= d messages went like this:

000400 =A0 5 -28 =A00.1 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0CQ M0BMU IO91
001600 =A0 6 -26 =A00.0 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0CQ M0BMU IO91

003002 =A0 4 -26 -0.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A0M0BMU <...> S1

004400 =A0 4 -29 =A00.0 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A0WE2XGR <M0BMU> R S1

005002 =A0 5 -26 -0.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A0<M0BMU> WE2XGR RRR

010000 =A0 9 -24 -0.2 =A0 =A070 =A00 =A073 DE M0BMU IO91

010602 =A0 7 -26 =A00.1 =A0 =A051 =A00 =A073 DE WE2XGR FN31

Thanks to Jay for the QSO - is this the first 500kHz T/A WSPR QSO?

M0BMU is now back to WSPR beacon mode overnight - any reports very welcome= .

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



--000e0cd113105c375f047f8ff8a9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-dd09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD094-86b14b842d4c38e; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:32:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BFFD380000BB; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:32:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk0TM-0003XJ-VJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk0TM-0003XA-Ao for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk0TL-0006fR-Bt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:08 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100223193101.HRWH4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:01 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk0TF-0001GT-1K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:31:01 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:30:59 -0000 Message-ID: <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Thread-Index: Acq0uZCEj9wjigluSHifOnDsc9SxhAABLGYw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=iHj8UeWpXyrbS2HTQCgA:9 a=XpEsIH21pQ-J71Z9LfcA:7 a=KLOVZWeMeoAA8QkoZfGtP-ypcMEA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=T2AdT3V9C0XbtNpQ:21 a=ei8JxPUhCSXzuZv6:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b842d481909 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Indeed! Only this afternoon after intercepting my post on the Echelon system I received a call from the chief bully at No. 10 to advise me that such an action could result in a modulation of global warming and so compromise their plans for justification of future tax hikes in the name of the environment. I was advised to go for a walk alone in the woods and take some paracetamol and a blunt knife with me, just on the off chance that my regrets could make me suicidal. Needless to say I declined the offer....got to go, there's some people at the d With best regards Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of g4gvw Sent: 23 February 2010 18:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: DATA James, I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation of the factors affecting global warming! On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > With best regards > > > > Jim > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > Roger > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > might join in. > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > Mal, > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > weak signal techniques this time. > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > wrote: > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > stns. > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > any of these modes. > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dd10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD103-86604b8ab95041; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:43:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E4E143800009C; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo5b-00081o-31 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlo5a-00081f-IA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:02 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlo5X-000124-QM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:42:02 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1SIgf86001051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1SIgfUf001048 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:42:41 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> <002201cab8a1$ee62d3a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8ab94e5766 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Sun, 28 Feb 2010, mal hamilton wrote: > It's not hard to wind these Dreamer Boys up!!!! They certainly do not > have a sense of Humour!! Mal, you need to get an additional license for humour these days :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.85]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b81aaa6381; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:50:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B3D64380000A3; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjJfy-0007jv-N8 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjJfy-0007jm-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.159]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjJfw-00059n-El for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:49:18 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 91CE1700008D for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 836867000092 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.23.157]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 4D921700008D for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:10 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100221214910317.4D921700008D@mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <38064A038FB0430684105CAB0A535611@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:48:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100221-0, 21/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: FS > Racal MA7917B HF ISB / USB / LSM / AM exciter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a24b81aaa40538 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Racal MA7917B HF Independent side-band exciter SSB=20 Can be modified for MF by changing the 2 tuned cct's=20 on the band pass filter board.=20 Ebay item Item number:160406367998 ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 7 Februa= ry 2010 20:45, Beckmann, Gerhard <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de>= wrote:

G= ood evening Gary, LF

= =A0

f= irst reception of your CQ-Call this evening at =96 20 dB !!!

= =A0

2= 03600 16=A0 -20 -0.4=A0 -48 31 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1=A0= =A0 0

= =A0

C= ondx seem to be not too good=85.

H= owever, JT4A is just working !!!

= =A0

best 73 de Gerha= rd=A0 //=A0 DK6NI=A0 (JN59LN)

=A0

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von= Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Febru= ar 2010 20:17
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode ton= ight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 50= 3.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.87]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB062-a6ff4b708c06246; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:11:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AE8DA38000259; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nebo3-0001qC-C2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nebo2-0001q3-Vj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:10 +0000 Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.92.144]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nebo0-0004hK-92 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:10:10 +0000 Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so505901qwf.16 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:10:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gcVO4BlTHaC7XzINOIMrWi0CfwGR4Vm9FJS6XW4RTcY=; b=FB7BOPiNdtb7Qy/ysIrOixb4HUqxxLAit/vybB6oNdgyVdw1D9IHpz3sbqTmShmwjH 3ispzQU15E++LUWQDu2oKaedc/6DYIkTg4KqflHG/6v7tz08jvbFRQLV31XNh8eS6hc/ mqvfnKXyt9JaPWGLX4W18NiryGGxxC7IzhWV0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Dda6Ip95MOJ8z5gF/j/zFJUoeWuIVElbkTdsVmNeglZZr/VnrxtdhymOAcOpAf8CV6 TAYym1en3vE5Wnj98TboPJOImBG7sF0m6nYpcmHmToUJxdnnOq5jeGmKgyMpMQNRwMlH TdwdoYzKHdEG+isOL4saLg+m0pX9SU6JekFmY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.1.37 with SMTP id 37mr2717365qad.325.1265667005532; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:10:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:10:05 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002081410n679c8dd1qd6984f629e32dedf@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40574b708c0408ae X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Jay, Yes I have been wondering who to ask regarding the surplus Loran equip= ment! Would also be nice to operate 137 from a closed Loran site! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:41 PM, wrote: > Wonder if=A0the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple mat= ter to > trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream... > > Jay W1VD=A0 WD2XNS=A0 WE2XGR/2 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave G3WCB > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM > Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure > Dear LF, > > Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an > announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. > > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ > > LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK=A0 :-( > > 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester > Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > this evening, there were two good traces from=A0Port Clarence here. Both > ended=A0around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting= down > Loran-C. The east coast chains=A0(5930 7270) are still on, probably beca= use of > Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now= as > 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > > =A0:-(( > > 73, Markus > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.15]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB054-86994b6e18552ad; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:33:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DF22B38000185; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:33:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndw03-00074L-K2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndw03-00074C-9a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from mail15.primus.ca ([216.254.141.182] helo=mail-02.primus.ca) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndw00-0008Cv-La for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:31:47 +0000 Received: from nrtcorback-216-168-101-155.nrtco.net ([216.168.101.155] helo=Bigmachine.magma.ca) by mail-02.primus.ca with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndvzx-0001GV-1z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:31:41 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.1.20100206202901.017fd308@magma.ca> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:31:50 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: Bill de Carle In-Reply-To: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> References: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Authenticated: ve2iq - nrtcorback-216-168-101-155.nrtco.net (Bigmachine.magma.ca) [216.168.101.155] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Canada LEGAL on 2200m. Its open season boys! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600f4b6e18536f90 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 At 04:01 PM 2/6/2010, Scott Tilley wrote: >The following comments where provided by VE3IQ from RAC HQ. >[..] >Yes, we can now use 2200 metres. >In December 2009, Industry Canada promulgated the revised Canadian >Table of Frequency Allocations, which embodies the changes resulting >from WRC-2007. It includes the Amateur service as a Secondary >service in the band 135.7 - 137.8 kHz, subject to Footnote 5.67A. >The footnote says: "Stations in the amateur service using >frequencies in the band 135.7-137.8 kHz shall not exceed a maximum >radiated power of 1 W (e.i.r.p.) and shall not cause harmful >interference to stations of the radionavigation service operating in >countries listed in No. 5.67. (WRC-07)". Hey, Woo - Hoo !! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC083-86544b850301118; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:44:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D3424380000AA; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:44:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEhX-0004uh-Gc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEhX-0004uY-4o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEhT-0002jq-1U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYC00804DQOG5@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:42:25 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:42:25 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55444 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b8502fc093f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg)" --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture vx9mrc 507.77khz with a lot of qrm henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture vx9mrc 507.77khz with a lot of qrm
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 24-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_XE+fG9UbFjhFZIyAptyHjg)-- --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABOA0oDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAUABgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH45L0dijoZmL5s6Ec5WrVxxgStpMrk YSiHmJjzkboGC6BEWkwwbJagJY/MV3dqnVnKHFmsebNfFolE1aSyOUIk5zFxdr2+iWWIMYiW LPrcLM8wRl4wgg6FyWDyFpEjqyiZpLhw5gFzrdWSPFQrRo6UEsmZRJlBE9O5HdyF9NmHViTz OaE9SUbRhrW9eaatg7gBZVmWEPr6PpK0nQkoiXIuVzRUzCyNbIp/YfpXzL6TytvV9WD8jFcf 26ZeomyaZ9T0nYLA66PRCoYnUSWy7jrzp7FGitZsxuUu1nY359ui3SMaNlMmRY2pzfnLlp8v 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Y7GgD7lNvcIh7rdxV5S9VL1Jpnc/xMBmnrGYI1piUlAd95uK+00JS+ZtXzCxE4LIVZDrFay5 grBxcKCp2iy8PsiG5OywHymb+5WguLVM3B0NIRkRb1pAcDZpUe1NIpNgMQ08pfqeCULgN6lJ RxB3mEnlSzPXznTDSjGY1fUuNCNVEFwiEGPa4LdLgiUOtsZmdh2itCnpAM3dFS9xkoeoP3LL BQOtPgxm3ruYI9CB8RWoh+H1NFvUvCcBSAey1tcXA0NVLDjEXJDzAUoGYFHepYdjsxVjBvPx AhGmjccE+ZHq221X2sw4DiPcKgehsfcU0Gd94kqttmYJ1gzKAGO9JSDTEuc64QyjDcyjDK+7 POYrWTuytErq/sds6IgioD2R3DnvNk33mkhjFwt0hIjyNsVtFxmCMhXFRAKrhGNsaUYgN04B qJHEt0VaDUgtNc6xFAZFtQK5OWtAtikzjg4xNuqoXrio2b4BS8d1bZ//2Q== --Boundary_(ID_GoFIpPfsMplhX51CYSX89g)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.91]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF073-8bf34b75a8ba244; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:15:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C5723800033B; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xu-0004qh-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ng0xu-0004qY-6v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ng0xt-0004ZB-Hc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:10 +0000 Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100212191403.DFQB4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:03 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100212191403.PBHG13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:14:03 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:13:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B75A86B.19922.686257E@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=cnJuz3YVC3h7er0bLT4A:9 a=GnFCPgQtyAhYMwT95L-GN_mV-wQA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV on 136.319 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405b4b75a8b62e29 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I will be transmitting overnight tonight on 136.319kHz, QRSS60. Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.15]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC061-a96f4b82c1242f1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:38:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 199D1380000E1; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcEA-00039g-GU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcEA-00039X-2y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com ([209.85.221.180]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjcE7-0003hg-Cw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:50 +0000 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1406369qyk.19 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=H9VteqSUyLFcMcayMtNMYXDZ0nSvoIpRhLbtzlCVE6U=; b=Ajn4yWxgoryils8+SvDbcKh22glYnEWCG28GLw0C1W4ofajTCoLNks2B7JelOxsQw6 70ZcfTtf0WXvOXTCrWqD+ZE3CuHxdBJLegH6fRstzlwq0Oci5FLIyyXy/FRy9yYTKO1D 4FQc2yWMcn9w71vrdMQqgXrwodbgL6/b80Z/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=H43LHnFuuBcEZxp1FD4GiZFZ5ZV1atgiLUNbP1z7pwjYpuSpIJ3/HVdTLFucm5qwk1 5BbXK4DnsqnSmXe7/g3Iw5JsDWvOzFB2SBRUo8zdV9ad2aMS6LHRG8kmtz9baBfUVbQl IQI/YdyCz8z69pGZNwStDgaAPCDBt2C8N4QQM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.89.194 with SMTP id f2mr616757qam.350.1266860258464; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:37:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:37:38 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m224.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400f4b82c12265b9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Roger, I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites into the water. The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 watts! Interesting write up on the web: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with anot= her > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one= - > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response.=A0 If so they= must > all be paranoid. > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would scr= ap > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into renew= able > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'= m > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA wrote: >> >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one tim= e >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remem= ber >> was:- >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be >> issuing any licences for that region. >> >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differe= nt >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >> >> Alan G3NYK >> > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.138]) by air-df02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF023-5ee84b7087813e1; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:52:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 82324380000FD; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NebVa-0001hL-Ip for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NebVa-0001hC-46 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NebVX-0004YW-Mz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:06 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so5273294bwz.29 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=WRQ8A346zUVZvZW2RgYhld5GBas1hhKrg/xiBGDgbBE=; b=Iys6UuuTDEd73USi2jyHMHmdvkEl3VO+HHRNVD4r8pdslLcKnRcK/0zC70N7OET6p8 jc81yd7x6xMtvBgOqKq/SWnyPl10u4dcAwI+VLDY5fReWVwFXgWcGz4hKNcQfCUgjD56 KB1DvRww4fcUTIJtXcHl5ICrDK1yfFXuq+AXc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=iVuxmOevm9cL8SmV/Sf8tbbUUC2qQ38m3k9e8mYQlSWryO0uNHSt8wYBBJRNm5HGbk 69/dhbFHvEiw+CO7SzkivSelYuZ3k/5MiBtOgk/bBakUQR1y6KMo74ly7iOSzo4hZbjA b162OSIg9Gh8nM3YbwGKyoHuVIFXKLAO08bcI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.210 with SMTP id m18mr2355037bkd.214.1265665856676; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:50:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> References: <008c01caa907$855c89e0$6c01a8c0@DELL4> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Loran closure Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408a4b70877f3db8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The transmitters likely will be. We did well enough when Decca closed. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 8 February 2010 21:41, wrote: > Wonder if the loran sights will be up for sale. Should be a simple matter > to trim the loading coil for resonance at 137 kHz. One can dream... > > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave G3WCB > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 4:32 PM > *Subject:* LF: RE: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > Here's a link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an > announcement of the cessation of US LORAN services. > > http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/rnavbull/ > > LORAN, OMEGA, J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK :-( > > 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]*On Behalf Of *Markus Vester > *Sent:* 08 February 2010 20:40 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* LF: Loran closure > > Dear LF, > > this evening, there were two good traces from Port Clarence here. Both > ended around 19:50, so it looks like the Americans are really shutting down > Loran-C. The east coast chains (5930 7270) are still on, probably because of > Canadian participation. Caribou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as > 9960 has not appeared with 5930. > > :-(( > > 73, Markus > > > --000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The transmitters likely will be.=A0=A0 We did well enough when Decca= closed.
On 8 February 2010 21:41, <= ;jrusgrove@comcast.net> wrote:
Wonder if=A0the loran sights will be= up for sale. Should be a simple matter to trim the loading coil for reson= ance at 137 kHz. One can dream...
=A0
Jay W1VD=A0 WD2XNS=A0 WE2XGR/2=
=A0
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G3WCB
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 4:3= 2 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Loran closure

Dear LF,
=A0
Here's a= link to the US Navigation Center web-site, where there is an announcement= of the cessation of US LORAN services.=A0
=A0
=A0
LORAN, OMEGA,= J.A Pierce, DECCA, HIFIX, ....all SK=A0 :-(
=A0
73, Dave G3WC= B IO91RM
-----Orig= inal Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ma= ilto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Veste= r
Sent: 08 February 2010 20:40
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=
Subject: LF: Loran closure

Dear LF,
=A0
this evening, there were two good tra= ces from=A0Port Clarence here. Both ended=A0around 19:50, so it looks like= the Americans are really shutting down Loran-C. The east coast chains=A0(= 5930 7270) are still on, probably because of Canadian participation. Carib= ou and Nantucket seem to be singlerated now as 9960 has not appeared with= 5930.
=A0
=A0:-((
=A0
73, Markus
=A0

--000325559732caa386047f1dcbc9-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-db02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB021-85ee4b7aed7d60; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:09:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E830B3800036E; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhSmD-00060C-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhSmD-000603-5D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhSm8-0003XR-5z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:08:05 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 16 Feb 2010 19:07:46 -0000 Received: from p5DD3484B.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.211.72.75] by mail.gmx.net (mp038) with SMTP; 16 Feb 2010 20:07:46 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1eJwRSTL1BL77pTbPrR5ScKTN6PjaAeOrhxMKrn Z6EStxqJOXX3xc Message-ID: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Paul" To: References: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:07:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.46000000000000002,0.46999999999999997 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b7aed794d03 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy,Rik, after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif I'm sorry to say that I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) tra= nsfomer. Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above desi= gn to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path= from the primary to secondary side. There is no such dc path here. 2.)In a bootstrap design the braid of one coax end is connected to the= center conductor at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax se= ction (1:9 or higher). This is not the case in this design.The center of the secondary is now= here connected with a braid. BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in li= near mode. If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on= the fundamental frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the low pass filter losses etc. It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater was designed to be superlinear. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calcula= tions said it needed to=20 be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise known= as a bootstrapped coaxial=20 transformer, but just configured with different reference points to co= nfuse everyone. Your=20 second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answe= r. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of= coax, which are then=20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 imped= ance). Add another turn,=20 so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange= the grounding points and=20 there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA ha= s two separate, non=20 magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA pra= ctice, and being so normal=20 in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enabl= es the designer to float=20 just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced= operation, and even to=20 provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one end to be completely=20 Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is= permitted with the basic=20 Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 transf= ormation by the same=20 bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as= a twisted pair rather than=20 coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of= HF antenna constructors.=20 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax giving one turn more=20 than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe = wrote: Andy, have a look here : http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20W= ideband%20Transformers.pdf 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] namens Andy=20 Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 9/10 08:35:00 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,Rik,
 
after thinking a while over the trans= former of=20 Andy's PA and referring to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure= that it=20 is a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
 
Here are some crucial points which&nb= sp;exclude=20 *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers provide no= dc isolation,=20 i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path=20 here.
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid=20 of one coax end is connected to the=20 center
conductor at the sta= rt of the=20 same  coax (1:4) or of the next  coax section (1:9 or=20 higher).
This is not the case in this design.<= STRONG>The=20 center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
 
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the=20 theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get=20 easily one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough=20 margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA which= was used as=20 industrial RF heater
was designed to be superlinear.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Tuesday, February 09,= 2010 10:43=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA match= ing=20 oddity
=
BINGO -  Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing.  So= rted
 
So my thing  IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio)  = ;just as=20 the calculations said it needed to be, and is indeed, effe= ctively,=20 an auto transformer.  Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial= =20 transformer, but just configured with different reference points&nbs= p;to=20 confuse everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper= , (UKuW=20 see below)  gives the answer.  
 
Look at page 10,   the 1:9 Ruthroff &n= bsp; UnUn=20 .   With just two bits of coax, which are then= =20 bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9=20 impedance).   Add another turn, so three windings are = ;=20 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points= and there,=20 in all its glory, is my mystery.   
 
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet= =20 PA  has  two separate, non magnetically=20 linked cores.  This is is just normal push-pull HF PA= practice,=20 and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hides = ;a=20 big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just what= ever=20 ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation,= and even to=20 provide DC isolation,   Any conductor passing through the= core=20 allows one end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end= , so=20 that's how balanced operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof de= sign shown=20 in the paper.
 
On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving= 1:2=20 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the= transmision=20 line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a= torroid,=20 it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF=20 antenna constructors.   A natural progression that he= lps=20 illustrate the concept  of  a loop of coax giving one turn= more than=20 it appears to.
 
It all falls out. 
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
 
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis= ...=20

On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <= Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20 wrote:
Andy,<= /FONT>
 
have a look here :
 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD -= =20 OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
V= erzonden: dinsdag 9=20 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp:= LF: PA=20 matching oddity

 


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/09/10=20 08:35:00
------=_NextPart_000_0061_01CAAF43.B0831250-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b880bdf3e5; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:58:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D369C380000A2; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:58:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl4Re-0007YZ-Ti for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl4Re-0007YQ-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from smtp6.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.190]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl4Ra-0007g5-Vq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:46 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8BEEB7000091 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 7F3197000092 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id BA9827000091 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:57:31 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226175731764.BA9827000091@mwinf3602.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <536EE8EDA26C4F968F81782282AFB191@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB>, In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:57:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b880bd63744 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rik ..=20 It may seem odd that 9 Khz causes concern but I think there was= some concern at tx causing problems with a lightning detection sys= tem working round 10 khz ..... substitute 'very bright flash' fo= r 'lightning' and it makes more sense .. but as that's not so high = on the menu these days .. they just use it to check your insura= nce claims for static damage against recorded 'events' close to you= .....=20 G ..=20 From: Rik Strobbe=20 Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:32 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation belo= w 9kHz? If Ofcom wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they= must have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise= one wouild need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker= via a cable. Unless the the matching is perfect the cable will radiat= e some nannowatts or picowatts. With amateur means (antenna's , power) we won't radiate much more than= a few milliwatts. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' di= scussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has take= n hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will= not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OF= COM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no alloc= ation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be= required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy unde= r the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf= spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from= one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without any license fr= om the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field= strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection= authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, bu= t is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is= not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "bu= t you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate pot= ential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on= 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regula= ted). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rik ..
 
It may seem  odd  that = ; 9 Khz =20 causes concern  but I think there  was some  concern at= tx=20 causing  problems with a  lightning detection system = =20 working  round 10 khz ..... substitute  'very  bright= =20  flash'  for 'lightning' and it makes more sense .. but= as=20 that's  not so high  on the menu these  days  ..= they =20 just use it to  check  your  insurance claims  for= static=20 damage against recorded 'events' close to  you ..... 
 
G ..

Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Op= eration=20 below 9kHz?

If Ofcom= wants to (or=20 must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they must have a lower limit= of whant=20 they consider radiation. Otherwise one wouild need a NoV to connect an= audio=20 amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Unless the the matching is per= fect the=20 cable will radiate some nannowatts or picowatts.
With amateur means (antenn= a's , power) we=20 won't radiate much more than a few milliwatts.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T=
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot=20 [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari= 2010=20 15:59
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:= Re: LF:=20 Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below=20 9kHz?

Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fs= net.co.uk>=20 wrote:
Warren ,

If= you  think this is bad, you=20  should take a  look at the  'ROS' discussion's in th= e yahoo=20   digital data group ..  SS  paranoia has taken hold= !

G=20 ..

--------------------------------------------------
From= : "Warren=20 Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.co= m>
Sent: Thursday,=20 February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject:= =20 Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?=


Asking Ofc= om for a license or Nov to generate a signal=20 that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
   =  =20         WD2XGJ
       =  =20     WD2XSH/23
          &nbs= p;  =20 WE2XEB/2
             =20 WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkows= ki <sq5bpf@lipkowski.= org> wrote:
On Thu,= 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

Pe= ople may be interested in the reply from Rod=20 Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFCOM's= view=20 would be.

[...]
They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there=20 is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. However in th= e UK, a=20 licence would be required as
there is no lower frequency li= mit for=20 wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006.=20 [...]

there is already a very big commercial= user of=20 the elf and vlf spectrum,
they inject very big power into gro= und=20 dipoles. emissions from one continent
can be heard on another= . and they=20 do this without any license from the radio
authorities. the= only=20 regulation they need regards maximum field strengths
(and thi= s is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection authority
= and not=20 the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is=20 usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when deali= ng with=20 the goverment, the best practice is not to ask
at all :) even= if they=20 agree with you there will always be a "but you will
need a li= cense for=20 that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their= duty to=20 regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from ins= talations=20 operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9kHz regio= n, that is=20 not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entirely differ= ent answer=20 :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that= you got=20 from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice





<= /DIV>


------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CAB70D.2A8B4AB0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-mc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC023-a8d54b830ca868; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:00:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A6FE43800009A; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhG2-0006Ik-Oq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhG2-0006Ib-Bo for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhG0-0006Sy-L7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:00:06 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6E9751C001 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8BC31E703 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:54 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz3B2XQhA+qwXMQhis8g8ptGhQPwAKsdaFAAJ2eR8= Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b830ca6365a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Woul= dn't that be a nice tool to try >what's possible, for a first step? Stefan, I just did a simple test: I took 2 old LW ferrite antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz= with a bunch of capacitors. One ferrite antenna was used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker= of the main PC in the shack transmitting the WSPR audio signal. The second ferrite antenna served as RX antenna connected to the mic input= of my notebook, acting as receiver in the living room (a surprised look= of the XYL, but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour). Solid copy in WSPR, over a distance of 15m. OK, it's just a very loose couple transformer. But it works fine and based= on the signal strength (through a couple of walls) there is more in it th= an 15m. 73, Rik ON7YD --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>But what about that= WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks? Wouldn't that be a nice= tool to try >what's possible, for a first step?
 
Stefan,
 
I just did a simple test:=
I took 2 old LW ferrite= antennas and brought them to resonance at 1.5kHz with a bunch of capacito= rs.
One ferrite antenna was= used as TX antenna, fed by the 5W active speaker of the main PC in the sh= ack transmitting the WSPR audio signal.
The second ferrite antenn= a served as RX antenna connected to the mic input of my notebook= , acting as receiver in the living room (a surprised look of the XYL,= but she is meanwhile used to my strange behaviour).
Solid copy in WSPR, = over a distance of 15m.
OK, it's just a very loos= e couple transformer. But it works fine and based on the signal strength= (through a couple of walls) there is more in it than 15m.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4069ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b69cd59343; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 557D3380006AA; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NckoR-0005mw-PY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NckoR-0005mn-DQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NckoP-0002Dg-NP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:22:55 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o13JMoDt016720 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:22:51 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:22:52 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:19:24 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: test signal wanted Thread-Index: AcqktzXvVw2QscsRSiKOW/wm5IQe+gATpWYI References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.191230 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107" Subject: LF: test signal wanted X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b69cd555323 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW on= 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the new qth in Heidelberg= (city) and want to try the performance. It is just 2m up and just 6m besi= de the house but as you know, i am optimistic... tnx es 73! Stefan/DK7FC PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screenshot= s spontan... ;-) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjUTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFwAAAExGOiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3 YW50ZWQA7QcBBYADAA4AAADaBwIAAwAUABMAGAADACgBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAFAAWADQAAwBH AQEJgAEAIQAAAENCRTlGNzkwMjM3MzgyNDdBNkQ1REY5RkRFNjE2RjU0AFsHAQOQBgDgCwAAOAAA AAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AAeJh8sFpcoBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAATEY6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURF O2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEwMDIwMzE5MjI1MlotMzM1AAAAHgBJAAEAAABE AAAAUmU6IExGOiAybmQgdHJ5IG9mIHNlbmRpbmcgdGhlIHBpYyBvZiBteSBsb29wIHByZWFtcCB3 aXRoIHRoZSBCRjg2MgBAAE4AgJNYdrakygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3Vw QGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABvd25l ci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBi bGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFcAAEAAAAoAAAAU01UUDpPV05FUi1SU0dCX0xGX0dST1VQQEJMQUNL U0hFRVAuT1JHAB4AXQABAAAABAAAAEtlbgACAV4AAQAAAD0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9U AgAAAABLZW4AU01UUABrZW4uaC53cmlnaHRAYnRpbnRlcm5ldC5jb20AAAAAAgFfAAEAAAAhAAAA U01UUDpLRU4uSC5XUklHSFRAQlRJTlRFUk5FVC5DT00AAAAAHgBmAAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAe AGcAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAeAGgAAQAAAAUA AABTTVRQAAAAAB4AaQABAAAAHAAAAGtlbi5oLndyaWdodEBidGludGVybmV0LmNvbQAeAHAAAQAA ABMAAAB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAAIBcQABAAAAGwAAAAHKpLc171cNkLHLEUoijlv8JuSE HvoAE6VmCAAeAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwB AAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAABMAAAB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbCB3YW50ZWQAAAIB CRABAAAAYAMAAFwDAABZBgAATFpGddDyaY4DAAoAcmNwZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMw/wEDAfcKgAKk A+QHEwKAEAP/AFAEVghVB7IRNQ5RAwECAIRjaArAc2V0MgYA2wbDETUzBEYTxzASPBFD2wjvCfc7 GC8OMDURMgxgzmMAUAsJAWQzNhZgC6XkNCAQAipcDrIBkA4QADkgPEhUTUwgEGRpcj0dkHI+fc8d UwAhAzAeoWRvAOAeofkKsVxxGBAeoRPgAzAfBRsWYB0LMxzgHgBFQUQTHtAdDDc3HfBUSVQcTEUi /RzQDvBSZToIIExGJdAybmQg8R6weSBvH2AUICZAC4DCZyZgaGUgcA3gJqJmbSaQF8BvcCeQGDBh Hm0ocAPwJ2AnU0JGOKQ2MiMNODUd8C8kP7sdogrjICuPLJ8OEDYO8IA8TUVUQSBuKMAAZT1HRU5F UkFwVE9SIAWgAjAJ8HQMPSIF4B4TOC4wMGIuHEAwMS4qwA4wOf4iIv0lgSsAIr8lUS3PHaGCNRZg PEJPRFki/dMcUTU/ZzYigVAe2QAAWSEXUGwosBQgLDCBdepsJlBzA3BlAiAngCbivCBhJmAHkAVA AJBnL6B5AyAocxrgIOA68BIwURIuPgApIAuAIFFSgFNTL0RGQ1cmoAEDoDEzNy43PyCwSSBidQMQ BUB1KHAjJ2IA0HRpdieARS3+ZgiQO3EAcDDBL6A8YAVANydiO/AH4HEpIT5RSGUyaQEAbGIEkCdA KGPdKRB5PjAAcCZQd0GhJmBebyZjJ2MEkAIQcgOBYxxlLj+wBUAEACBqdbk8sTJtQDJEYkbTNkcw 70OgAJABACdTaAhgFCA/0QsFQD2xeQhgIGtub3p3OyBpPGBHMChgQNBt+wQAQNBjPgEe9gqiHucK cv8fBwqxTOghjQHAKvE5UTb/hzgPOR9N+HRueCAHkfg3MyFLj0yfTa9Ov0/P11DfUe86ClMwwGYA cD7A/Es3PuBUX1VvVn9Xj1if11mvWr86C1Ml0FQncUFAvxQQQjEHcUpRE/BA8Ukwsf8EoBQwQhJI 8GZxRGI7oEpR/mMDkUXRRKALICbQBQAJ4cpzSPB0BCBzcAIhAHDhPgEgOy0pXU9eX19v82B/Iv01 OCrxNp8lUSQBFzPAHiEe0H1ygB4ANRABAAAAVwAAADwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1MEFE MEREODVFODJBMUFEREBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3RhZHQu ZGU+AAAeADkQAQAAAFQBAAA8MTIwNzc4MjEuMTI2NDk0NjI2MTQ4Ny5KYXZhTWFpbC5yb290QHdh bXVpLWN5bmljYWwuYXRsLnNhLmVhcnRobGluay5uZXQ+IDwzOEE1MUI3NEI4ODRENzQwODNENzk1 MEFEMEREODVFODJBMUFDRkBGaWxlLVNlcnZlci1IU1QuaHN0LmUtdGVjaG5pay50dS1kYXJtc3Rh ZHQuZGU+IDw0QzI1RDUxQTZGRTY0NkQ1QjhEOUQzN0M4N0VBNkJCQ0BsaW5kYXZpZGVvPiA8MzhB NTFCNzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFBRDRARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5l LXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPiA8MEExQ0MyQzUzNjcwNDBFMjg0RDMwRjg3QTQ5Njc1 NDdAbGluZGF2aWRlbz4AHgBHEAEAAAAPAAAAbWVzc2FnZS9yZmM4MjIAAAsA8hABAAAAHwDzEAEA AAA6AAAATABGACUAMwBBACAAdABlAHMAdAAgAHMAaQBnAG4AYQBsACAAdwBhAG4AdABlAGQALgBF AE0ATAAAAAAACwD2EAAAAABAAAcwB4mHywWlygFAAAgwybyNRwalygEDAN4/r28AAAMA8T8HBAAA HgD4PwEAAAAPAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAAAIB+T8BAAAAXAAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAAr L+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1IU1QvT1U9RVJTVEUgQURNSU5JU1RSQVRJVkUgR1JVUFBFL0NOPVJFQ0lQ SUVOVFMvQ049U0NIQUVGRVIAHgD6PwEAAAAVAAAAU3lzdGVtIEFkbWluaXN0cmF0b3IAAAAAAgH7 PwEAAAAeAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC4AAAADAP0/5AQAAAMAGUAAAAAA AwAaQAAAAAADAB1AAAAAAAMAHkAAAAAAHgAwQAEAAAAJAAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJ AAAAU0NIQUVGRVIAAAAAHgAyQAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgAzQAEAAAAcAAAAa2VuLmgud3JpZ2h0QGJ0aW50ZXJuZXQuY29tAB4AOEABAAAACQAA AFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AOUABAAAAAgAAAC4AAAADAHZA/////wsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAAAAADAAYQ hDV0rwMABxArAQAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFBMRUFTRSxDT1VMRFNPTUVP TkVTRU5EQVRFU1RTSUdOQUwoU1VDSEFTQ1EpSU5RUlNTL0RGQ1dPTjEzNzc/SUJVSUxUVVBUSEVB Q1RJVkVFLUZJRUxEQU5URU5OQUFUVEhFTkUAAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3 NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQUREQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1 LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAD0d ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA506.4781D107-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.95]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34b68340b1ed; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:17:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1E0933800013A; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcJXz-0005rg-OS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcJXz-0005rX-9g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f200.google.com ([209.85.221.200]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcJXx-0007n1-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:07 +0000 Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38so41756qyk.1 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:15:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GEMt0wAKnThD7ui3kz6AmuYU3NZBfASNsZ0IKSMECEs=; b=t+nu8vVAgEYC7L5W7DmsZJGn5iQM/Mwn8BE1UUD6Ht0l5meIa/1nLtls+7WfWg/IKx xnjPuqS0ojbydFO52bemik8nKFaRTqMCK/g0bXqPKw5nc2kuS3SkCoqYbcT+YLyc0tbB fYY27eCcWW+BoFI6lq7glwD2Elle8dIr2g490= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=fzxf7ORNkcR2HRfaSwHHtBKlxUbLVAmtdxbEU7DS1Z24QPtC7Q0AkQRW+disUdMYFP wwwJUryFJurFPtjGa0D/lMPrWenhgD4HHUtc9KcV1Htz+LBJqmfeQuvrAb939k0ggpay kXUzM0ex9hWIoPo+vKJZhG/sVqFVuCqXN+EQ8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.72.162 with SMTP id m34mr2854282qaj.0.1265120157584; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:15:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:15:57 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002020615k7c6fde3ap5230adb3c9253830@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: XGJ 02-02.jpg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605f4b68340726ba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Henny, Excellent capture, thank you! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 2010/2/2 henny van elst : > Hi Warren,LF > Capture XGJ,strong signal, > best 73s > henny cpm. > Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden > verzonden: > XGJ 02-02.jpg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.32]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB034-a21f4b701a191a9; 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08 Feb 2010 14:03:24 +0000 Message-ID: <163B1F4EEB2C4C359B44DB65B592EBDA@TraceyPC> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: References: <2560D4A45AF3419091511A1E3D5C1787@Black> <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CC76D4F65E079B-2370-E729@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:03:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: Solar Flares Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41204b701a1632f7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I have also noticed a major change on the the Sheffield University VLF monitor http://togashef.sheffield.ac.uk/~sferix/vlf.png 73s Tracey G5VU ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: LF: Solar Flares Dear LF, the effects of two solar X-ray events (C3 at 10 UT, M1 at 12 UT today) are very noticable on the Loran screen grabber. At midday there was also a visible enhancement of SXV signal strength on 136 kHz. 73 de Markus, DF6NM http://www.alice-dsl.net/df6nm/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b8331d3322; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:39:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A0182380000B0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njjiu-0007B2-L2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njjit-0007At-Br for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:03 +0000 Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com ([209.85.221.180]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njjip-0007Js-SD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:38:03 +0000 Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1681112qyk.19 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=7uq65ZkVqGObDNy+sEAKBsT2Tm4zrB43U8wwyGGNa5g=; b=on83m2gHWVsOoCIeYkaHmnYXax6U5eFWRMwLaTgCDTiMyFkFDWbB4g8kpHfEEmb58i 7cGQKy+zgFhGtZ3c8DResSbEiuvMWZYHtSKvSywUEXs2DfvBsMKO6Js4h+Yow6bw9crl 2NziESS/u7nCzd8rRZaGFRb+JJ2wG/+PFhfYY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=WyvI9XzfeLITp/rAUGoTaZWTuLO1ZbqlXb0gL5NZzZ7Cz5HevO5UmesfGrng+uCJMe Z3imnFRuosH9u9upmWnWnvF+RdnNAMzbiMfKZHn1wnfQDykZiUqbozllIk7XhweHD1CU s0qyAPZMTLjS4xJv0ybI5NBuP3uXE1H3VWU5g= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.13.144 with SMTP id c16mr3448346qaa.85.1266889067553; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:37:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:47 -0500 Message-ID: <57a24ca71002221737t57dfcd1bn51a188b5c004104d@mail.gmail.com> From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Broadband over Sewer was (Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m253.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b8331d176d5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, >werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ? That was a Dilbert comic Broadband Over Sewer Lines a parody on BPL. http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-09-08/ --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 6:31 PM, wrote: > werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ? > the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter > of the Pipe ?? I kinda remember something about that some years ago > > Bob K3DJC > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe < > Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> writes: > > Pete, > > what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? > It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at= the > same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to= a > more convenient value. > Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power sho= uld > be more modest than 780 Watt. > A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cabl= e > that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. > > 73, Rik > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > *Verzonden:* maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 > > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Yep Rik > > So how do I load it? > > I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would > act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting. > > I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts= of > audio to try out. > > I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB > designs in the LF Handbook. > > I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is > a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am loo= king > for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-wi= se. > > If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF station= s > who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possi= bly > G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away. > > May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of= a > wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. > > So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe * wrote: > > > From: Rik Strobbe > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 > > Pete, > > 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. > So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the > dissipated power. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] > *Verzonden:* maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > Hi Group > > Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9 > kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- > A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 14= 00 > turns, > 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. > A coupling loop of about 2 turns. > Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolt= s. > Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. > Any suggestions?? > > > > > 73 es GL petefmt > > --- On *Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn * wrote: > > > From: James Cowburn > Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 > > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from > base camp below? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] > On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > No license is required in the US below 9kHz. > > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > > > wrote: > > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to > contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I rememb= er > was:- > > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we > control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > issuing any licences for that region. > > > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differ= ent > now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > > > Alan G3NYK > > > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > wrote: > > > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > > > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ok Roger, > >> > >> > >> > >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in > >> europe as > >> well? What about the UK? > >> > >> > >> > >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build > >> a big > >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the > >> wire high above > >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do > >> you mean with > >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround > >> 500W+-6dB. But > >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna > >> in the > >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about > >> 2x500m in a > >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a > >> ferrite > >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That > >> could be > >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, > >> just 2 wires > >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the > >> feed point, > >> that would be a first step. > >> > >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF > >> it is the > >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and > >> make some > >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much > >> easier on > >> 40/80m... > >> > >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, > >> the > >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? > >> > >> > >> > >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i > >> expect. But > >> that are dreams... > >> > >> > >> > >> Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > >> > >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded > >> electrode pairs are > >> probably the best "antenna". There are > >> references to how these work in > >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the > >> 1960s, > >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the > >> German ham sites > >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > > >> > >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair > >> aim with modern > >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur > >> levels) available > >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to > >> submarines at > >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas > >> stretching for > >> 100s of kms. > >> > >> 73s > >> Roger G3XBM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> > > > >> > >> Hello Horst, > >> > >> > >> > >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some > >> motivated OMs > >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting > >> field to > >> test. > >> > >> > >> > >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna > >> configurations for that > >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an > >> antenna > >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in > >> series and in > >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your > >> house. Nobody > >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. > >> > >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted > >> in some > >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and > >> also 160m. > >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. > >> Perfect > >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even > >> tried > >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX > >> results, of > >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX > >> would be > >> interesting... > >> > >> > >> > >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i > >> think ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some > >> commercial > >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? > >> > >> > >> > >> 73, Stefan > >> > >> > >> > >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation > >> ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker > >> > >> > >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 > >> > >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> > >> > >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Hallo Stefan, > >> > >> > >> > >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in > >> DL the range > >> <9kHz is free. > >> > >> > >> > >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a > >> while I got > >> a letter which confirmed that. > >> > >> > >> > >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a > >> licence. You do not > >> need one. > >> > >> > >> > >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like > >> bandwith or power. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. > >> > >> > >> > >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT > >> > >> > >> > >> Horst > >> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> > >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > >> > >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > >> > >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > >> > >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > >> > >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL > >> G11088 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ---------------------------- > >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer > >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t > >> Heidelberg > >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 > >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany > >> > >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 > >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 > >> > >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Nutrition > Improve your career health. Click now to study nutrition! > --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 --00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob,
>werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?

=A0=A0That was a Dilbert comic Broadband Over Sewe= r Lines a parody on BPL.
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-09-08/
--=A0
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ=A0<= br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1

=



On Mon, Feb= 22, 2010 at 6:31 PM, <riese-k3djc@juno.com> wrote:
werent there some tests using the sewer pipes as antennas ?
the cast iron increase in IR losses would be off set by the diameter<= /div>
of the Pipe=A0 ?? I kinda remember something about that some years=20 ago
=A0
Bob K3DJC
=A0
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be= >=20 writes:
Pete= ,
=A0
what about putting a= large (1..10nF) cap=20 from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the re= quired inductance=20 with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the high loss=20 resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap need= s to handle the=20 high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than 780=20 Watt.
A ready available sour= ce of HV caps is=20 RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV's. At 101= pF/m you=20 would 10 to 100m cable.
=A0
73, Rik
=A0
Van: owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@yahoo.co.u= k]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 23:43

Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org
Onderwerp: RE: LF:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz

Yep Rik
=A0
So how do=A0I load it?
=A0
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil= so it=20 would act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out bef= ore=20 melting.
=A0
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about= 100=20 Watts of audio to try out.
=A0
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of= the=20 RSGB designs in the LF Handbook.
=A0
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible.....= ..=20 there=A0is a=A0lot of pontificating on this reflector=A0about=20 this subject but=A0I am looking for a practical method of loading= a=20 wire antenna and need help, ideas-wise.=A0

If I can load it with any=A0of the power levels=20 above=A0there are=A0LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX= =20 test like=A0G7NKS about 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or=20 M0jxm=A0roughly 10km away.
=A0
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule= =20 fraction of a wave length,=A0in the conventional way is not the=20 answer.
=A0
So=A0I am open to ideas (practical ones)......=20 anyone??=A0
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe= =20 <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
From:=20 Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE: LF:= =20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org"=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Monday, 22 February,= =20 2010, 21:24

=20
Pete,
=A0
2.5km Cu wire= of 0.2mm has a=20 resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the= coil doen't get=20 hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.<= /div>
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7= YD -=20 OR7T
=A0
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT=20 [m0fmt@ya= hoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010=20 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp:=20 RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
=A0
Using software to calculate what I would need to load= my=20 inv "L"=A0 on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P=A0800= Watt audio=20 amp I get :-
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air= cored=20 former is 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driv= en by=20 about 60kVolts. Making=A0a coil that will be getting prett= y=20 hot!!!!! Probably red hot.
Any suggestions??
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon,= =20 22/2/10, James Cowburn=20 <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

From:=20 James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE:= =20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date= :=20 Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All= we need is a wire strung between K2=20 and Everest summits and fed from
base camp=20 below?



-----Original Message-----
From= : owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On=20 Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010=20 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= Re:=20 LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US= below=20 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radi= ate a=20 signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren= =20 K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1



On Mon,=20 Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>=20 Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You= =20 probably need to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he di= d=20 approach the regulator at one time
maybe around 2001/= 2 when=20 Geri was doing his tests the answer as I=20 remember
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are no= t=20 allocated by International Treaty but we
control all= =20 frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will no= t=20 be
issuing any licences for that region.
>
&= gt; I=20 believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things= may be=20 different
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know wh= ether=20 an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould= G4WKL=20 who nursed the 500k stuff through.
>
> Alan= =20 G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10,=20 Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni= -heidelberg.de>=20 wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iu= p.uni-heidelberg.de>
>>=20 Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010,=20 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>>= ; And=20 do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries=20 in
>> europe as
>> well? What about th= e=20 UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If= such a=20 grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>= ;>=20 a big
>> antenna without the problems we have= on LF=20 (getting the
>> wire high above
>> gro= und).=20 So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>&= gt;=20 you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is= =20 clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB.=20 But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about bu= ilding=20 an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x= 20m,=20 is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m= in=20 a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (w= hich=20 will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i th= ink)=20 mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> cou= ld=20 be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no= earth=20 radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on= some=20 trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed= =20 point,
>> that would be a first=20 step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be= bad=20 but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
&g= t;>=20 same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance=20 and
>> make some
>> contacts at very= low=20 frequencies, although it would be much
>> easie= r=20 on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so,= if=20 one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>&g= t;=20 the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't= it?=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has= =20 anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as=20 well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wi= th the=20 ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>= >=20 expect. But
>> that are=20 dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>>= ;=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&g= t;=20 Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger=20 Lapthorn:
>>
>> =A0 At this frequency,= =20 widely spaced,=A0grounded
>> electrode pairs=20 are
>> probably the best "antenna".= =A0 There=20 are
>> references to how these work in
>&= gt;=20 the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from=20 the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the inte= rnet I=20 believe) and on one of the
>> German ham=20 sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www= .qru.de/#vlf=A0.

>>
>>=20 =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a=20 fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal=20 processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur
>&= gt;=20 levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine ac= hieved=20 worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>&= gt;=20 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and=20 antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of= =20 kms.
>>
>> =A0 73s
>> =A0=20 Roger=20 G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>=20 =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de= >
>>
>>=20 =A0 Hello=20 Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>>= That=20 sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find=20 some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near= field=20 (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> fie= ld=20 to
>>=20 test.
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>&= gt;=20 configurations for that
>> range and got the id= ea=20 that one could use a forrest as an
>>=20 antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s= =20 meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>>= =20 parallel. You do not need to have that area beside=20 your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the= wire=20 and nobody will care about it.
>>
>>= Since=20 summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna=20 mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill= with=20 excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also= =20 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to= 12m=20 above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching= from=20 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>>= =20 tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem bu= t with=20 bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But= if one=20 would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would= =20 be
>>=20 interesting...
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>=20 JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far=20 i
>> think=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What= is=20 your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>= ;>=20 commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are= there=20 some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73= ,=20 Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>>= PS: One=20 can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
&g= t;>=20 ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 ________________________________
>>
>>=
>>
>>=20 Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>=20 im Auftrag von Horst=20 St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet:= Mo=20 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
>>
>>
>>=20 Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in=20 QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
= >>
>>
>>
>>
>>=20 Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>= ;>=20 there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that= =20 in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is=20 free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I= could=20 not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
&g= t;>=20 while I got
>> a letter which confirmed=20 that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So= there=20 nothing you've got to do for getting a
>>= licence.=20 You do not
>> need=20 one.
>>
>>
>>
>> The= re is=20 no limitation of technical parameters like
>>= =20 bandwith or=20 power.
>>
>>
>>
>>= Hard to=20 believe in german, but obviously=20 true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My= QTH=20 is Siegburg=20 JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>>= =20 Horst
>>
>>=20 ________________________________________________________= ___
>>
>>=20 NEU: Mit WEB= .DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF=20 sparen!
>>
>> =A0 =A0 http://produk= te.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
&g= t;>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>= >=20 --
>>
>>
>>
>> =A0= http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>=20 =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>=20 =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>= >
>>=20 G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0=20 =A0ISWL
>>=20 G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>=20 --
>> ----------------------------
>>= =20 Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr= =20 Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>>=20 Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>&g= t;=20 D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelbe= rg.de
>>=20 Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)62= 21=20 546405
>>
>>=20 www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>>
>




=A0


________________________= ____________________________________
Nutrition
Improve your career heal= th. Click now to study nutrition!



--
73 Warren K2ORS
= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1


--00c09f99df20d76a9804803a9832-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.22]) by air-me03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME033-8baa4b892dae253; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:35:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6C2EC38000105; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNjw-0000Sg-RG for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlNjw-0000SX-6d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlNjt-0005EA-Nl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:33:56 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1REXqw8023257 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:33:52 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably Thread-Index: Acq3qZki4lwd2wTcQI+vE3Ko7IBmlgADbVPD References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.27.142423 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B9.E1EEEBE3" Subject: LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more probably X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55582 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41164b892dac4ff6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB7B9.E1EEEBE3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF group,=20 =20 Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See http://www.windfinder.com/fo= recast/frankfurt It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a strenght of= 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle and stable for tests. Tha= t is the first positive news. =20 Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even about 100mH but= It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV= rms. This will be the maximum voltage on my single wire. There are severa= l possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage, well known and ap= plied in the high voltage power fields but this may be very difficult at= a kite antenna. So i will start with a first test at only 20kV, if the PA= will give a proper power ;-) =20 That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry that and there= are better ways to realisethat. But it is available i get the chance to= resonate that 100m vertical at 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the livi= ng room of my parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the= first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV plus a lowe= r voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO with a sinus output,= loosely coupled by another air coil (in this way i will be able to make= a transformation of the resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kH= z are well audible so i am excited how the antenna and coil will sound whe= n some 100W applied;-) =20 The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I will try to bu= ilt it today or tomorrow in the morning but i have also to spend some time= with my YL. I hope that can be arranged... =20 On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform Markus/DF6NM to= give those who are interested a information here... =20 I have to go now, and will inform you... =20 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Alexander S. Yurkov Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town= ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure=20 QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed specially for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite antenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical, does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT voltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the last experiment. 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2010 06:23:58 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4ACAF38000062; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:23:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcdJb-0002ym-8Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:22:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcdJa-0002yd-RR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:22:34 +0000 Received: from qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcdJY-0006ij-Em for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:22:34 +0000 Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87]) by qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dP5r1d0011swQuc55PMgt2; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:21:40 +0000 Received: from JAYDELL ([76.23.233.102]) by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id dPPZ1d0022DDHkk3bPPZTi; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:23:34 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> From: To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:22:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b695ccc02fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Jim Have been looking for your WSPR signal whenever you're active. The lowest ERP from EU received here so far was +20 dBm from G0NBD...about a dozen spots over several nights. Distance was 5198 km. The spots were in the -22 to -25 SNR range so reception of a station that is 6 dB below G0NBD should be possible. Please transmit whenever you can - there are at least several stations on this side of the pond that routinely keep an eye on 502.4 kHz. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cowburn" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:17 AM Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Rik/LF > > That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can > work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I > switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at > 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and > others in D/F. > > Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into > antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a > silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be > suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a > bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better > support away from trees! > > Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the > local ground wave signals collapse > > Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more > so than the output at the tx end > > My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a > quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right > condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to > 2000km or so. > > If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz > enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO > squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we > can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub > > Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe > Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz > > In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. > As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some > antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). > Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about > 20mW. > At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a > carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it > run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". > To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with > him, receiving a 559 report. > Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. > Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and > 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.143]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b87e9f02ad; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCDE838000117; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:34:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BT-0006Gh-Cz for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl2BS-0006GY-Qy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl2BQ-0006bT-6P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:54 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD2651C00B for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F759F3863 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Thread-Index: Acq29RSPbJohoLCLRqeAbxsDFY2+twAAvco9 Message-ID: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408f4b87e9ea6a3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Ofcom wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz they must= have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise one wouild= need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Un= less the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate some nannowatts or= picowatts. With amateur means (antenna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a= few milliwatts. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below= 9kHz? Yes, unbelievable isn't it! Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham > wrote: Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' discussi= on's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: > Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If Ofc= om wants to (or must) regulate "transmissions" below 9kHz= they must have a lower limit of whant they consider radiation. Otherwise= one wouild need a NoV to connect an audio amplifier to a loudspeaker via a cable. Unless the the matching is perfect the cable will radiate so= me nannowatts or picowatts.
With amateur means (ante= nna's , power) we won't radiate much more than a few milliwatts.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@= googlemail.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 26 februari 2010 15:59
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation= below 9kHz?

Yes, unbelievable isn't it!
Been going gon for abt 4 weeks now.
On 26 February 2010 13:46, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.u= k> wrote:
Warren ,

If you  think this is bad, you  should take a  look at the=  'ROS' discussion's in the yahoo   digital data group ..  = SS  paranoia has taken hold !

G ..

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Warren Ziegler" <w= d2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz?


Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
              WD2XGJ
              WD2XSH/23
              WE2XEB/2
              WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received=
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as=
there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act=
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt
can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io
authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths=
(and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority<= br> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask=
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you= will
need a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or<= br> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you<= br> would probably get an entirely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice






--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4074ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.81]) by air-md08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD081-8b904b6e9d7db0; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:01:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D1CF23800029B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:01:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4sM-0001tq-1d for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne4sL-0001th-MC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:25 +0000 Received: from mailout.toya.net.pl ([217.113.224.27] ident=postfix) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne4sJ-0008QN-C3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:00:25 +0000 Received: from mail.toya.net.pl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D65D2000005E for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (unknown [10.3.148.9]) (Authenticated sender: unimlyn) by mail.toya.net.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B5DC20000052 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B6E9D45.5060506@toya.net.pl> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:00:21 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgTcWCeW5hcnNraQ==?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: In-Reply-To: X-AV-Checked: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000304000108080301000003" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TITLE_EMPTY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514b6e9d7b4673 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------000304000108080301000003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit victor13@online.nl wrote: > Hello Stefan, > > I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for > blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors. Hi Victor, please, send it also to me ... 73, Piotr, sq7mpj qth: Lodz /jo91rs/ --------------000304000108080301000003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable v= ictor13@online.nl wrote:
Re: LF: AW: Re: test signal wanted
Hello Stefan,
=C2=A0
I will sent you the design directly because it is to big a file for blacksheep.It is a design with just 2 fets and 3 transistors.
Hi Victor, please,=C2=A0 send it also to=C2=A0 me ...

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 73, Pio= tr,=C2=A0 sq7mpj

qth: Lodz /jo91rs/

 --------------000304000108080301000003-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.12]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA041-85e64b82e426cb; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 78955380001E7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:08:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeYe-0004Gk-40 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjeYd-0004Gb-OL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:07 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjeYa-00052r-8z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:07:07 +0000 Received: (qmail 5858 invoked by uid 507); 22 Feb 2010 21:06:41 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 21:06:41 +0100 Message-ID: <201002222106550093.028E1B99@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <20100222112301.D8324F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <201002221851390968.021247E4@smtp2.numeo.fr> <9afca2641002221154p40cccc31x1e19f2b0095ac73e@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:06:55 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600c4b82e42429d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 The 2.5km was on 87 SSB. On 27 we used NBFM (much shorter range). John F5VLF *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 22/02/2010 at 19:54 Roger Lapthorn wrote: >Presumably the 2.5kms on 87 or 27kHz was using USB John, or at least in >USB >bandwidths? Assuming a mode like QRSS30 or QRSS60, this would imply that >considerably further DX would be possible, even allowing for an inverse >cube >attenuation rate. > >I wonder if anyone has any lists of DX achieved using induction mode >communications? > >73s >Roger G3XBM > >On 22 February 2010 17:51, John RABSON wrote: > >> If I recall correctly, G0AKN (now SK) tried audio frequencies as well= as >73 >> and 136 kHz. G8DSU, who monitors this list, may have more information.= =20 >An >> article by G0AKN on this subject appeared in the Jan-Feb.1999 issue of >the >> AMRAD newsletter. More information may be found by searching online fo= r >> G0AKN. >> >> Most cave radio work takes place on 87kHz USB although we have sometime= s >> used frequencies as low as 27kHz. The maximum range we have achieved >with a >> 4 W transmitter is about 2 1/2 kilometres. >> >> 73 >> John Rabson >> F5VLF >> 58800 Cervon >> France >> JN17vg >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >--=20 > >http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.75]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI023-eabc4b771ccbee; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:42:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8CE7F3800018F; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:42:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgPje-0007Cy-As for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgPjd-0007Cp-Oz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:05 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgPja-0002yN-Q9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:41:05 +0000 Received: by pzk11 with SMTP id 11so2199230pzk.30 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:40:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=CdSo8cf4wwXR9M9ACB1rObDNjwwhGXM+2ky70cNjXOI=; b=dP0Wa17b6LIMnd6zr+9CCxqn/XWOai/EUX9roupAeeBhD0YNm2756BC+tgirAKgaK7 usX1pKZYkJBOHkTdjAkvxeRgzXCvJ5v/KEm1sqJMoYssglryiluRNQKq56DpJdHv+/NL C4TEEpW6g9/9JU2S62ccS06ffOLMo479JV0vw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=qiZ3Ze7l6AQ3y/IOnf3PYBZfVlB58Lp00Ln5o3ECtaCUH75KUPqA5F8GHXdoGxItHv 2jR3c+u+eqiYv7EwaArhe3UBNfssoIIadZic8BqWiSUCbf5Bg5ar/REcQcJU1OiISMnn otZ4VZOODoos1+H1DcwaeTiHfRZ5/EGW40HT0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.55.5 with SMTP id d5mr1755389rva.243.1266097254877; Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f0624b91002131219r25bcba3k991fb262ce03b329@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002131303v5df48b54x30cd9bf8d5e0fa2b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:40:54 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8836ad0f1e93c561 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002131340q52179e8bvd0396d88dc583910@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR 2 way mode Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d274.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404b4b771cc90de7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Roger, Thanks for the report. No problem, take your time & work it out first. I don't know whether you read my previous mails to Jim G7NKS, but I suggested a good read is the "Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A by Andy K3UK" & can be seen at :- http://www.obriensweb.com/bozoguidejt65a.htm The fact is that the procedures for JT65A, WSPR QSO mode & JT4A are all very very similar & the instructions for JT65A work just the same with the others. So the guide is very useful. There is also a good "help" from the top menu in the WSJT 7 screen/display showing lots of info, keyboard short cuts & procedures. OK, Roger, I hope we can have a crack at the 2 way modes very soon. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 13 February 2010 21:03, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm not ready to try a QSO yet until I've > understood and sorted out the procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with > this software on any mode yet. > > 205600 12 -12 -0.4 -7 0 CQ *G4WGT* IO83 > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT wrote: > >> Hi LF, >> >> Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.100 kHz USB dial frequency, >> 503.600 kHz signal frequency. >> >> Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome. >> >> 73, Gary - G4WGT. >> > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Roger,

Thanks for the report.

No problem, take your time & work it out first.

I don't know whether you read my previous mails to Jim G7NKS, bu= t I suggested a good read is the "Complete Bozo's Guide to JT65A= by Andy K3UK" & can be seen at :-


The fact= is that the procedures for JT65A, WSPR QSO mode & JT4A are all very= very similar & the instructions for JT65A work just the same with the= others. So the guide is very useful. There is also a good "help"= ; from the top menu in the WSJT 7 screen/display showing lots of info, key= board short cuts & procedures.

OK, Roger, I hope we can have a crack at the 2 way mod= es very soon.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

On 13 February 2010 21:03, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn= @gmail.com> wrote:
Just seen your WSPR mode CQ Gary. I'm= not ready to try a QSO yet until I've understood and sorted out the= procedures with WSJT - I have never TXed with this software on any mode= yet.

205600=A0 12 -12 -0.4=A0=A0=A0 -7=A0 0=A0 CQ G4WGT IO83=A0

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 13 February 2010 20:19, Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@tiscal= i.co.uk> wrote:
Hi LF,

Txing WSPR 2 way (QSO) mode again tonight, 502.1= 00 kHz USB dial frequency, 503.600 kHz signal frequency.

Reports & replies/calls will be most welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088

--001636b14a5320c9ee047f823d02-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.74]) by air-di02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI022-eabb4b67162a1f7; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:58:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0D7013800019D; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc0W7-0002Ty-Lv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc0W7-0002Tp-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from n16.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc0W6-0000Wd-SL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:55 +0000 Received: from [68.142.194.244] by n16.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 Received: from [68.142.201.243] by t2.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp404.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2010 17:56:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 187618.98794.bm@omp404.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 32719 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2010 17:56:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=19Re6eXV+QufYZIfJ2gbpxhXx6bGbJkEX/nd16tXgKXbiou+12dQ3xZc0J2ukl91eoESsJ3lJwczTInFVvnHRBbVC3rZmPo8fpx1QK5gAICIxdTat9IZ6+PHofz+0VG1xEpA7xXXtSZGHE3MidkLgwv+rTSL8Dx/OsIhIN8i7sw= ; Received: from host86-142-159-60.range86-142.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.142.159.60 with login) by smtp141.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 09:56:47 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: SeaDta8VM1k5BBEGdk1lmW6zdEEn2s6zUvyc6A3G6P37Bl1Uz4egpJKu1W4L.sR9_v9enDwuk5vNROIt.I569_5hkX9nMooqTNPDjlYpubeHpmVPZK2jKtZOLF9NWW5xN7PrQVVkOD2uRlJJm2Fq.dpb9b6heCcYqINszbs.mfIF_HJvuH4EU.Nmah6xNjQykSXZ5ntDAmWj2tcAZm66MdannuN9PVOsXM.Na5RV4pjcyrxLT.LStiCNSFU.KejJyZGePCJ8xZlvnOugcU75h8YQKYNW13x.yN9zhyMJ15wD6CRlUFdhpDCTblhLbHjmm.33XOx7qTsKesLiUynIJC2.N.fO3._V_CYA0byroqpRG518oVfZQyDKwS0S_05ObFTBCFsARqsl4zAN6fdWowpYPC.Eil_jhK8HqmFe749N7xra3Pvc6ok- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> From: "Ken" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:56:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604a4b6716275729 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm= =20 multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at= 1300nm=20 or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What opt= ical=20 wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If yo= u are=20 using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be= high,=20 the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the= fibre,=20 ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibr= e may=20 be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduc= e=20 attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode.= In the=20 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning= optical=20 line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-)= ), so=20 rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than=20 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for= =20 indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DC= F39 in=20 the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But= =20 recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less no= ise.=20 So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise,= =20 probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the= RX.=20 The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already order= ed=20 some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s= of=20 years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no pr= oblem=20 for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier= within=20 the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but=20 this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sens= itive=20 RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to= worry=20 any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/ho= use to=20 the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the=20 RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, incl= uding=20 the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.89]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF074-8bf44b82a3431b0; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:31:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9726B3800014A; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaE4-0001PT-PL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjaE4-0001PK-BF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjaE1-0002Q9-P9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1760835bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:29:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7UAbn2t3c8D0mAe1IT/PA/e5ozXkvWCvN2m/gVOVghI=; b=n8odVLL/dJs6RSBBDmYR/mmuK4ruIGLIxZKnK9myVxEiBJQj1JpgcS+wfJfZWhUMgc GTdsJvBpZc4a3fwr5fTqnhK9eayHh4D0NKg/wJm/nveeGuMyUxD74Y5ea7CrQXC8eT6H /XKlAEFHUPX5LdkWBwh8/7WQevB6TsoIFUdBI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=tt/Dp1+Aoo2LEsKiSRRe2eRM9uKwUX6LRxF9qBPgi2DwjYeF9QjZSE6C3zigPmGi3k QmJ4hDmsm2arY2dtq/eVRdU2Ch0aipXbqzkzyxP23UmrRVG2MBK+PIbXgBSSClUCLBsb Hpp9A083j2F4DFoV7zMxE4AE0qUgbK3eCXjEM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.152 with SMTP id g24mr3110606bkw.205.1266852567115; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:29:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:29:26 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220729v30122b70k1624ce6576ec724c@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d275.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40594b82a34118cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rick, Horst, et al, I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operation below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mode" experiments between 0 and 50kHz. If you ask OFCOM I suspect they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI. It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could communicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large induction loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing will be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or by induction. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe wrote: > > And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? > What about the UK? > > > Stefan, > > in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rick, Horst,=A0et al,
=A0
I am unsure of the "official" UK position regarding operati= on below 9kHz. Back in the late 1960s a Test and Development Licence was= required and I held two around 1970 (G9BIB and G9BGU) for "earth mod= e" experiments between 0 and 50kHz.=A0 If=A0you ask=A0OFCOM I suspect= they will require you to have a special permit (NoV), HI.
=A0
It would be very interesting to know just how far amateurs could comm= unicate below 9kHz. Amplifiers of 500-1000W coupled with the very best in= weak signal modes and widely spaced grounded electrodes or large inductio= n loops might result in the 10km barrier, achieved some years ago, being= exceeded. ERP is meaningless at these frequencies as virually nothing wil= l be radiated: communication will be by conduction through the ground or= by induction.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM
=A0


=A0
On 22 February 2010 14:50, Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@f= ys.kuleuven.be> wrote:

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for oth= er countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is &qu= ot;free"

73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T




--

http://= g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://w= ww.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/= G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175d03363ee86d04803219c6-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.222]) by air-dd04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD043-865a4b80717c396; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B94D13800059D; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NiyoJ-0003aa-0T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NiyoI-0003aR-Bd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:30 +0000 Received: from web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NiyoG-00028L-6a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:30 +0000 Received: (qmail 34265 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Feb 2010 23:32:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266708742; bh=mkHF6dDdawJu/rtYHo9vvd5bWFlYn0+k2zc8Pus+XOY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gVYmevO5UPEtwJg77hgwnC0moSxyp5A/ERJMz/IgLsPRHKX8kPUjBRjd/euBHBzUOomhW34P/Csk/2d7XggreZaXuwYeaahHrY0YFX9KN2Xk0cA34JQtvPGZW4TmYvcIJ9KQTG5LmQkcs7CwDKmAdtONyMRaUHJw3//XBxIZxf8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=el6ld/h+HvEzntFgt6HbuY6xGiKJu90Ntt1q1n/SOtrdtRYPHe9757aUuAqi7d9EOu01rJVXY2CRPlGmKGAWlQAhLE99lbkOuHHqE//++e1CRWXPfyyZD9fzhHrBq0A1Sh0NVPBvP0Sx5NU0x52gVliXv0hJHvwyX8zgThRfvus=; Message-ID: <85763.34251.qm@web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ar.OSToVM1nBDGbhbHxoYQI.RJ6AdQyeyBQ8W_0CuCxGFNMrg2nnUGGNvESnGy_ih6y.Rqcu1YYCfXUKSnoHiHS8RF09M26xpwax1gXgLm.kni4Q.bv86vKPN1fC6OIP21AVTPnfLKBLlKa9WISXNeUgz6bSOGqB9ecZpFIXiMvO9jdrDldcLRWJtjybqQ09TSlLgY8AUkjIZnm5L3WrbLaYo5c58atz92Bn4ycxeIOcuzMj_2iss3E7kF4fmXV3Pd9gHSG_1BgsmnlRo99TE5oQIY0TQwhMr_I- Received: from [213.122.11.230] by web86501.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:21 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:32:21 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <21758503.1162148.1266683961523.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d309.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60de4b80717a68cd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Horst dont forget you are in the near field at that frequency and the= signal strength drops of as the third or fourth power of the distance (no= t the square) until you are about 15km away from the transmitter then you= enter the far field and get square-law effect. You need to factor that in= to your equations. This means at 1km the strength will be either 30 or 40d= B lower not just 20dB (I think) at 10km 60 to 80dB lower. You are really= in "induction" fields at the moment, I think. Interesting tests. Make a bridge and measure the antenna at the at frequen= cy, the majority of the resistive component will be ground loss. Tune out= the reactive part with inductance and use a transformer to get the highes= t antenna current. A "ground dipole" could well be better than an elevated= small T. Interesting reference "ELF Communications antennas" Michael L Burrows, pub by Peter Perigrinus= for the IEE 1978 ISBN 0 906048 00 1 Alan G3NYK =20 --- On Sat, 20/2/10, Horst St=F6cker wrote: > From: Horst St=F6cker > Subject: LF: My first tests below 9 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Saturday, 20 February, 2010, 16:39 > Hello, >=20 > some years before, some experimental licences for ham radio > below 9 kHz were issued in germany. Meanwhile this frequency > range is free as the Bundesnetzagentur has confirmed last > year. >=20 > Transmitter is an Pr=E4citronic GF62 Level Generator > actually at 8,79 kHz. PA is an old homebrew NF-Amplifier > with 2x 2N3055 and about 40 Watt at 4 Ohm into a 100V ELA > transformer. Antenna is a T-Antenne of 10m with 20m top > capacity and poor ground. >=20 > Receiver is a portable sferics RX that I built some years > before (AATIS). Unfortunately its whip antenne is highly > influenced by trees and houses. >=20 > The fact that I can hear (!) my beacon in normal CW up to > 100m in an city environment with a highly unmatched antenna > makes me believe, that in a better environment and with a > matched antenne and with help of ARGO one can make tests > over longer distances. But even from my QTH in the city the > ODX ;-)) surely can be improved. >=20 > The mean problem now ist how to match the antenna . . . - > or using ground antennas vor TX, RX or both. >=20 > vy73 Horst > ___________________________________________________________ > NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! > http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.16]) by air-dc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC071-86034b8452073e7; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:09:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C094438000081; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:08:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2vN-0003mp-7H for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2vM-0003mg-Rv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:12 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.34.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vL-0007Sd-Es for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:08:12 +0000 Received: from [212.54.34.144] (helo=smtp13.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vK-0007Zn-Jc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:10 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=P43000) by smtp13.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2vK-0007jt-5U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:10 +0100 From: "Willem De Roode" To: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:08:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000001cab4d4$aeecee70$0cc6cb50$@nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq01K5gUaeRAsuDRGaC27nydmsgeA== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Nk2vK-0007jt-5U X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-4.397, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, UPPERCASE_50_75 0.00) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UPPERCASE_50_75=0.591 Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UPPERCASE_50_75 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b8451fb0b97 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PA3EGO Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS, PA0A Heard by: 2M0AZW, DK6NI, G0NNF, G3VYZ, G3XBM, G6AVK, G7NKS, GM4ISM, LA3EQ, LA6TPA, LB9YE, M0LMH, PA0A, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV, PC4T 73s pa3ego ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= PA3EGO
Hearing: G4JNT, G7NKS, PA0A
Heard by: 2M0AZW, DK6NI, G0NNF, G3VYZ, G3XBM, G6AVK, G7NKS, GM4ISM, LA= 3EQ, LA6TPA, LB9YE, M0LMH, PA0A, PA1GSJ, PA2ET, PA3ABK, PA9QV, PC4T

73s pa3ego

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CAB4DD.10B15670-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b89911b2; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:39:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5846B38000092; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUMN-0003Z1-UV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlUMN-0003Ys-Fc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from mailout08.t-online.de ([194.25.134.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlUMK-0006v2-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from fwd10.aul.t-online.de (fwd10.aul.t-online.de ) by mailout08.t-online.de with smtp id 1NlUMF-0005Ae-KJ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:55 +0100 Received: from e7010 (ZYyiKiZr8hFhpdATSgH+8t1wn0tEdwOfYw8mu-BbMaxqhqrMcJD-Wx46-+cm22-QfK@[84.147.213.71]) by fwd10.aul.t-online.de with smtp id 1NlUMB-0FEq2q0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01cab7f5$1e0253e0$6402a8c0@e7010> From: "Walter und Marianne Staubach" To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:37:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-ID: ZYyiKiZr8hFhpdATSgH+8t1wn0tEdwOfYw8mu-BbMaxqhqrMcJD-Wx46-+cm22-QfK X-TOI-MSGID: e18f4d4d-1dfe-42d7-9fb5-1bb354e3af11 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Condx Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b89911a4650 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo MF, strong copy of EI0CF and SM6BHZ in JN59NO at this time. 73 Walter DI2AG / DJ2LF ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hallo MF,
      =   strong copy of EI0CF and=20 SM6BHZ in JN59NO at this time.
73   Walter DI2AG / DJ2LF
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CAB7FD.7DCE6E50-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.26]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF053-5ef44b71d00975; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:13:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F180380002EA; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NexMn-000556-31 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:29 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NexMm-00054x-PF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:28 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NexMl-0004az-D0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:28 +0000 Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100209211120.GBPQ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:11:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100209211120.MBSN13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:11:20 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:11:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=0-Zitf4ukgJ9-ASlkmUA:9 a=CN_pBJcMc-_gnKLUFcieiLj1iQEA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: XDV on 136.319 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411a4b71d006390b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 I will be transmitting 'XDV' in QRSS60 overnight on 136.319kHz. Mike. G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.14]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b82e72230; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:20:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6A1583800004C; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njeku-0004OD-9e for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njekt-0004O4-Q4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:47 +0000 Received: from mail.hurontel.on.ca ([216.46.129.11]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njekq-00059B-PM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:47 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (pppoe.dyn-216.46.157.76.hurontel.on.ca [216.46.157.76]) by mail.hurontel.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CFF9603D for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:39 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: John Bruce McCreath In-Reply-To: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600e4b82e7206509 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello LFers, I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond.= As it is very likely that the only listeners down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have= always found that it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission!=20 73, J.B., VE3EAR LowFER Beacon "EAR" 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA074-86674b6f28b264; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:55:14 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03B2D3800012B; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE97-0004Ub-3r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeE96-0004US-Ns for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:20 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE95-0003vQ-0F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:20 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207205413.ISRK4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:54:13 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeE8z-00040H-8K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:54:13 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:54:11 -0000 Message-ID: <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoNTUJ0RmtzBueQzqxhi/n5AEBeQAAluUA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=OzMB3q1JgigMRY7OLnEA:9 a=TK-ZmhNouPSPh-jcGbuEhzgfH_EA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=ge4GFdIg4HPHdngT:21 a=tlbg0Rof5DGr4dYB:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b6f28b01e60 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Sorry I knocked the VFO! Thanks for the report -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.205]) by air-me06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME061-8bb44b6dbab6141; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:53:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 38856380001F3; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdplW-0005ju-Tj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdplW-0005jl-Bp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from mail.tula.net ([212.12.0.5]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdplT-000662-KY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:52:22 +0000 Received: from [212.12.27.30] (account ua3pw@home.tula.net HELO ua3pw59fc4bf05) by mail.tula.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.7) with ESMTPA id 61629473 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:52:17 +0300 Message-ID: <00aa01caa75d$8117faf0$0501a8c0@ua3pw59fc4bf05> From: "UA3PW" To: References: <195be.1c0b073d.389e1ba7@aol.com> <15DE4535B55145ADBD93747022CF6A2F@Black> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:52:16 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Re: PW beacon ??? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cd4b6dbab521df X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Markus and LF. Thank you for captures and your grabber . Victor ua3pw / KO93JV . the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 last ni= ght (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4= WPF, and VO1NA above 137.777 later last night. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Markus and LF.
Thank you for captures and your grabber .
 
Victor ua3pw / KO93JV .
 
the attached small capture shows UA3PW in QRSS3 around 22:00 la= st night=20 (colours swapped to yellow). The other screenshot shows UA3PW, UA4WP= F, and=20 VO1NA above 137.777 later last night.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A7_01CAA776.A630B570-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC034-86a14b881dcf11a; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07E833800008C; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dc-0008F8-VR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl5dc-0008Ez-Hn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl5da-0008Ai-AQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:14:12 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QJE6ZM021927 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:14:08 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA00300 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:19:10 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:19:10 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:14:09 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b881dcd3366 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > > I checked the noise level again during the daytime, and the noise level was > about 6dB lower than last night, i.e. about 13uV/m per sqrtHz Dear Jim, with such a noise Stefan's signal should be detectable in QRSS100 at 100 km. Seems to be worth if such noise level takes place every day and every night. It is naturally to assume noise level has some seasonal and some irregular variations. More data will be usefull. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.137]) by air-di04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI044-eac54b73d3983c0; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:53:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4E8243800017C; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:53:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfVi4-0007r2-9n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:44 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfVi3-0007qt-UI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfVi0-0000GL-WC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:51:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXO002NZ8PWYV@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:51:32 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:51:26 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <71BD8AA41B7C48A59E90D2E838E374C2@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54843 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60894b73d396459c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ)" --Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 11-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_fbKU0QguPEtBIlPFCV9xFQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture VX9MRC 50777KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 11-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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rb84lwKWn8cICJ1NGFHw11giuDDXjEaC9zWK3FW84vBIG7cE42a4lIABVXQXjJYo/Ag3C2NI iBYzGzd/43cnllslCECChYCEEQRMklrykVgpVMq6wMwMrig26cfNirDNycs4zkQHzi6ujwc3 B+MRfnFSgzDt4azQuzWgP6zlxQKiZIz3iCPWIEMT1jy43rL2LecUBp94j3AusZWsdYldr1kL dnneK/Iq402V1n7pGX6JVjbh07dJrE234j/mMt8+Muqk5m8X3d9riUPOaZzAOcTWi7d46q1g aIndxrCTtW4ThLrBUqnEygJwgUQ+cOhwXDEecBe16mcqB8TK8IKQw0C4jgUO8EekfWLV/wCH S4KgXUwB0PHGXQR83KUrnDW3DT0l7c2cHEyGh5yF1celq+8dLpQwltydAMcp3hoXvEsdGbMT Yg/Ga87MSkbPjE5hx1rFVM2Ys5zhI1drS49kERomd33xm2OnDeNsA943QI8G0+MBUHjjDZ9M 6y99ki3HRgV4M35yFxN0y7ratwAYBAQ7zWnsWsiVZx6wwLB/GOxd5xgES4KAvOAlGq8NB7jw iIIeI9RNRITIRQeQ2GrhNLhxcPusZ0gEyfcX4WckLBTJJwEIA1bjovH/2Q== --Boundary_(ID_3n0vJ+4TWHd2WeFi+hslVg)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-dc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC013-864d4b6eabf826d; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:03:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 798CD380000F6; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:03:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5po-0002NY-U2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne5po-0002NP-DA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: from web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne5pm-0000Ll-Nb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 44922 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Feb 2010 12:01:44 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1265544104; bh=Q35vaW//w3aDFxNQCUF6BYbF7AA4Hm1CoX1S3TpRyYw=; 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hdWGXaYVM1mQc1GOjhwSEXlS.mPb0y.a3Rnb..yq_0gCceJnTmvEQ_HPDHK8laSh1p4q9wyZnXMXsMv8vlcAGtg8eFVenjdMvfGOMywGWA56Xnl3XCkqb6_o37OBiz2Yxu9wcpzQWgDiMLEVJ9Wa6TIFOHrc0GgD0yGPjiA1RznvOkR7ovfQY9KPLDzgEC08IsHX_nMp9UNc2G83a4_UM6hj1zh7oCi6Owodt3uObZMzkHh9DpwL2SnesfHPVS76ByD7eldHU352NzVzk13Ahs2JIYsrB9Q0saLAJeZJv_0uHAevFzn5f9aqOcKBKRw- Received: from [213.122.4.4] by web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:01:44 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.1.10 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:01:44 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b6eabf726fb X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Roelof, well skywave is not at a minimum at noon, it is at a maximum fo= r the daytime period. However you are right in your timing for another rea= son this is the most repeatable period of the day, assuming a quiet day wi= th no lunchtime flares, over a number of days. For reference skywave is probably at its lowest in the dawn and dusk "dips= ". Alan G3NYK --- On Sun, 7/2/10, Roelof Bakker wrote: > From: Roelof Bakker > Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sunday, 7 February, 2010, 11:16 > Hello Gary, >=20 > Thank you for your feedback. > It is not easy to evaluate the noise situation. > Not only varies the noise with frequency, but the bandnoise > varies quite a bit from day to day. > I always do my noise tests around local noon as the skywave > is at a minimum. >=20 > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE011-5ea24b68c923194; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:53:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDBBE3800008C; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:53:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcTTV-00007P-5K for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcTTU-00007G-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:08 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcTTR-0003Ii-Re for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:52:08 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o130q4Rx006131 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:52:05 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:52:04 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Thread-Index: AcqkCNpGt+IduJZAR5CirjCxAM/NqQAXhQqs References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.8.383112, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.3.4229 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF" Subject: AW: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b68c9200e30 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim, Andy, Sam, Ken, Group ;-) =20 Excellent comments! Thank you for these explanations. I see, it is your bu= siness. And what i read tells me, that the optic way cannot be the wrong in princi= ple.=20 =20 Recently i even got a mail from a OM who was going qrt due to the (local)= qrm and waked up now with much interest and hope. Perhaps he will be reac= tivated by the optic way? I any case, it is an interesting alternative. =20 As i started with the optical way i compared the TX LED with a normal p-n-= junction of a bipolar transistor (base-emitter). Since bipolar transistors= are also used in preamps (although with much less power gain, so with the= need for a pre-preamp) and there has to be find a operating point where= the junction behaves linear (with the strongest signal that can occur at= the input) i thought this is comparable to the LED. And a bipolar transis= tor also has its noise figure. So i just tried and was surprised by the re= sults.=20 =20 Perhaps you could also give some practical ideas for an LF application. It= 's always interesting to get some alternatives. =20 CU, Stefan/DK7FC =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von SAM JEWELL Gesendet: Di 02.02.2010 13:25 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Folks, I think it is worth pointing out that most cable TV systems use fibre link= s, at least as far as the cabinet. The light (laser) is amplitude modulate= d with the RF carrier(s) at the cable head end or regional Centre. These= carriers are usually locally generated but can also be from directly off-= air if the signal to noise ratio is adequate. The modulation index can be= held quite high for a single carrier, progressively reducing for multiple= carriers in order to minimize intermodulation between carriers. Ultimatel= y, with many carriers, the modulation spectrum will be noise-like. Those= of you who have worked with the old telecom carrier based systems will= recognise the same characteristics.=20 The earliest cable (HFC) systems carried AM VSB signals in the VHF and UHF= frequency range in their native transmission format with minimal distorio= n and added noise. Digital modulation (using QAM modulation, but still amp= litude modulation of the light) came later. >From the laser (or LED) input to photodiode/PIN/APD output there will be= a certain link loss and system noise figure. If the system parameters are= known, this can be modelled using e.g. AppCAD, Noisecalc. In some system= s signal to noise ratio is critical. For LF systems, where there is a fair= ly high noise level, it may be far less critical (famous last words). Not all fibre systems use digital modulation of the light, although in mos= t cases it is still amplitude modulation. I should also point out that fibre is often used to carry the RF and IF si= gnals from the SHF rooms (at the back of the big dishes) at satellite eart= h stations across the site to the demodulation and signal processing build= ings, in preference to using waveguide, as was done many years ago. Whilst= working at BT Research Labs my team produced one of the first radio over= fibre test systems for BT's Goonhilly and Madley Earth stations. These ea= rly fibre links used multimode 50/125u fibre and multimode lasers. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, microwave and LF are just the adjace= nt ends of the spectrum. Not opposite ends! 73 de Sam, G4DDK ________________________________ From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, 2 February, 2010 11:57:13 Subject: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer= fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres,= rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre los= s is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visib= le red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic= fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the emitte= r/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring preci= sion optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avagotech.com/= docs/AV00-0143EN Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain= component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute tow= ards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the electr= ical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the fib= re in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the det= ector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will con= tribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by itself= is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage drivi= ng the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input impe= dance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical link= - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical= link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also= be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so= the principle is viable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" To: Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF8= 62 > Hi Stefan. > 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm mu= ltimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km...=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgUAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAMgAAAEFXOiBMRjogTG9vcCBwcmVh bXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgQkY4NjIgLyBvcHRpY2FsIGxpbmsAyw8BBYADAA4AAADaBwIAAwABADQABAAD ACIBASCAAwAOAAAA2gcCAAMAAQA0AAQAAwAiAQEJgAEAIQAAADMxRTZGRjJDNjFDOUU3NDU5RTgw RDFENjAzRkZDNzZBAF0HAQOQBgCMIAAAOAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AO/1TRprpMoBHgA9AAEAAAAF AAAAQVc6IAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhTVDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUhTLTEw MDIwMzAwNTIwNFotMjg5AAAAHgBJAAEAAAAyAAAAUmU6IExGOiBMb29wIHByZWFtcCB3aXRoIHRo 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VC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAFUR ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA46B.1A4DF5EF-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD081-860e4b8647f532e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:50:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 758A238000043; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:50:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaL8-0001HE-G1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaL7-0001H5-U5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkaL5-0002Y7-16 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:49:01 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AFA51C002 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA85531E702 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:46 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:48:47 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_00_10=0.642,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_27043522==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b8647f31363 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_27043522==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Stefan, did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in the 50..100 Ohm range. Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additional losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses). But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q = 250 for the loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large parallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher losses. Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this. Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm) 1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W. 2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loading coil would be 2.1A (= 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna current (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB. In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significantly, making it difficult to tune. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote: >Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and >optimistic way, just like children are dreamers! >We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und >could start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km >if not done yet. > >On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO >over 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs? > >Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and >he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. >Maybe i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the >public autoritys are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance... > >Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next >listening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible >if this would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical: > >The wire has abt 580pF >I can get a air coil with L=85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance >abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV >rms (if it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz. >So, if f=8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some >470pF/40kV Cs, no problem) >The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, >that means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA. >If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in >the region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a >radius of abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz). >So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would >be 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the >voltage across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA... > >If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be >reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that >can be expected on a sunday morning? :-) > >73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-) > >Stefan/DK7FC --=====================_27043522==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Stefan,

did you have a look at the graph Jim (M0BMU) showed yesterday ? This may indicate that in an open area you might be better off than 1/f, maybe in the 50..100 Ohm range.
Last night I was mulling about Alexanders remark that a parallel C would increase the losses. At first though I would say that the parallel C just performs some kind of impedance transformation without inducing additional losses. And this is true if the loading coil would be perfect (no losses).
But for a real world situation (ie. assuming a constant Q = 250 for the loading coil) Alexander is right: the transformation caused by a large parallel C causes extreme high currents in the loading coil, and thus higher losses.
Simulation (with SIMetrix) confirms this.
Taking your antenna (580pF / 50 Ohm)
1. Without parallel C you would need a 550mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 130 Ohm. Putting 100W into this system would result in an antenna current of about 750mA and antenna voltage of 23kV. 750mA trough the loading coil means a dissipation of 73W.
2. With a 3.2nF parallel C you would need a 85mH loading coil. At Q = 250 the coil loss would be 20 Ohm. But putting 100W into this system would result in only 330mA antenna current, while the current through the loading coil would be 2.1A (= 88W dissipation). The reduction in antenna current (750mA to 330mA) would lower the ERP by 7dB.
In addition the parallel C will decrease the antenna bandwidth significantly, making it difficult to tune.

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

At 01:14 25/02/2010, you wrote:
Here i agree. And here i understand "dreamers" in a positive and optimistic way, just like children are dreamers!
We have written so many mails (including me, of course ;-) ) und could start now just to try what is possible to reach more than 10km if not done yet.

On the LF pages of DK8KW i found a notice of a successful 2 way QSO over 10km @ <9kHz. Does anybody know about more than 10km by amateurs?

Yesterday in the night i talked more than 1 hour to Markus/DF6NM and he persuaded me to try it with the 100m vertical in a first test. Maybe i get that temp licence for a 300m kite vertical but the public autoritys are still discussing if i need a special casualty insurance...

Do you, the group, think that it makes sense to try it if the next listening station is >50km or even more away? What could be possible if this would be the arrangement with the 100m vertical:
 
The wire has abt 580pF
I can get a air coil with L=85mH out of a 20kV field. DC resistance abt 150mOhm, continous current abt 30A, voltage over coil abt 30kV rms (if it remains dry(!)), measured self resonance frequency abt 50kHz.
So, if f=8,9kHz, a parallel C of abt 3,2nF is needed (i can get some 470pF/40kV Cs, no problem)
The voltage across my thin wire should be limited to abt 20kV rms, that means, antenna current should not exceed 650mA.
If Rik's 1/f dependency is valid, then my ground losses will be in the region of 250 Ohm (no houses and trees there on the hill in a radius of abt 100m; 15Ohm @ 137 kHz).
So, 100W TX power would radiate 1,4mW and thus the efficiency would be 0,0014%. In that case, i mustn't apply more than 100W since the voltage across the wire would be to high, so no need for a QRO PA...
 
If that calculation is reasonably correct, what distance could be reached with 1,4mW @ 8,9 kHz in e.g. QRSS10 and the noise level that can be expected on a sunday morning? :-)
 
73 es wish gl to all those, who are trying in these days ;-)
 
Stefan/DK7FC
--=====================_27043522==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-mb08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB084-a8064b7bd02e1d7; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:17:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7F26F380002B7; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:17:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhhsc-0007UC-4h for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhhsb-0007U3-9X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:41 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhhsZ-0007o4-8T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:41 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4144991bwz.29 for ; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:15:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=b6GO5qbu6cjzJ5pXTIzGOphaVSzx9T4ZUAGTLkG05k8=; b=BzcMWc6wYLhEXUQWDX9UBCEtoHpEaHqBfaf5uaaWFhbeYeO4aFYPw6Z07mDVF+/g9t PZrnh4hH1uBZhdxQUjgwzBA/+GWDtIRBrlk0BX84ZMCK+9/Mc24/D8jIxZRQ6WJcBGaz 8FubtkXlP79aS+ctvCDt/C1l8tRSmuPV269xw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BwCyjw0azg4pD9er5PRPzjTrt/WEPMKn/tsLXL78YFbjC0FKNqselZLC45RXsP2N7C 3lczHW45L32nEHw+xicW2ep7yV3JoZ/7St9oNx9lB4f8rQmw4EH5oghhsSCz0bJOYpyZ 479qQYaryKr4TojWPLY1MuejKA+iNFUT2YoeA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.15.17 with SMTP id i17mr5218072bka.173.1266405332004; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:15:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> <006601caafbc$28de4c10$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:31 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m264.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b7bd02c13a4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't use a Bird wattmeter. Don't trust any directional type of meter= for proper power measurements. I have a 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated) plus= HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated) so I reckon power measuremen= t is to within 0.2dB However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator, which= is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good idea Andy www.g4jnt.com On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul wrote: > >and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). > > So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to' > > Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W, > with a 2,5kW element +/-125W. > Power master is a bit better with +/- 30W. > > 73 > Clemens > DL4RAJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andy Talbot > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity > > A follow up to this sage > > After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it must= be > 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured > voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - So how could it deliv= er > 1kW plus... > > Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone > exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. > Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800 or so watt= s, > but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a higher value= and > I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). So it really was gi= ving > more power out than it 'ought to' > > BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in fact= , > if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspec= t in > the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. > Enough said. > > Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz where th= e > transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost > gain / efficiency. So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of > little use as a general HF amp. BUT, with suitable change of output > transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz= - if > a suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentatio= n > done, and any further work can wait for other projects to get pushed of= fthe > stack. > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > > > On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: > >> Andy,Rik, >> >> after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to >> http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif >> I'm sorry to say that >> I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) >> transfomer. >> >> Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above desig= n >> to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). >> 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path= from >> the primary to secondary side. >> *There is no such dc path here.* >> 2.)In a bootstrap design the *braid* of one coax end is *connected *to >> the *center* >> *conductor* at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax >> section (1:9 or higher). >> This is not the case in this design.*The center of the secondary is >> nowhere connected* >> *with a braid.* >> ** >> BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in lin= ear >> mode. >> If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on= the >> fundamental >> frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the >> low pass filter >> losses etc. >> It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater >> was designed to be superlinear. >> >> 73 >> Clemens >> DL4RAJ >> >> ** >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andy Talbot >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Cc:* ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM >> *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity >> >> BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted >> >> So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculatio= ns >> said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. >> Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configu= red >> with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second refere= nce, >> the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. >> >> Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of co= ax, >> which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio= (for >> 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped= on >> top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all it= s >> glory, is my mystery. >> >> The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has= two >> separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-p= ull >> HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hi= des a >> big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever >> ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and= even >> to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allow= s one >> end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how bal= anced >> operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper= . >> >> On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 >> transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the >> transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrap= ped >> on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructo= rs. >> A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax >> giving one turn more than it appears to. >> >> It all falls out. >> ... life is worth living again ... >> ... can retire happy ... >> >> >> Andy >> www.g4jnt.com >> ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... >> >> On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrot= e: >> >>> Andy, >>> >>> have a look here : >>> >>> http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf >>> >>> http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideb= and%20Transformers.pdf >>> >>> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ >>> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ >>> andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] >>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 >>> *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >>> *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. >> Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de >> Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/1= 0 >> 08:35:00 >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. > Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de > Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/16/10 > 08:35:00 > > --00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't use a Bird wattmeter.=A0 Don't trust any directional= type of meter for proper power measurements.=A0
=A0
I have a=A0 1GHz specified 30dB rated 1kW Bird attenuator (calibrated= ) plus HP 432 power meter (reasonably well calibrated)=A0 so I reckon powe= r measurement is to within 0.2dB
=A0
However, trying to get more than 1kW would overlaod the attenuator,= which is a very nice little (!) bit of kit to have so probably not a good= idea
=A0
On 17 February 2010 10:29, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
>and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).
>=A0So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to&#= 39;
=A0
Uncertainty of a bird wattmeter with= a 1kW slug would be around +/-50W,
with a 2,5kW=A0element +/-125W.
Power master is a bit better with +/-= 30W.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:= 48 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

A follow up to this sage=A0=A0
=A0
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it mu= st be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.=A0=A0So I connected up and= measured voltages.=A0Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 -=A0=A0 So=A0=A0= how could it deliver 1kW plus...
=A0
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, =A0got out the 'teleph= one exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would= give.=A0=A0 Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800= or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a= higher value and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).=A0= =A0=A0 So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to'
=A0
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.=A0=A0 I'd= used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf=A0 and forg= ot it.=A0=A0 Enough said.
=A0
Anyway, tested the PA, and found=A0it would go down to about 5MHz whe= re the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs= lost gain / efficiency.=A0=A0 So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine,= but of little use as a general HF amp.=A0=A0 BUT, with suitable change of= output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or= 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.=A0 That's where it sits now.= =A0=A0 Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other proje= cts to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@= gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
=A0
after thinking a while over the trans= former of Andy's PA and referri= ng to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)=A0sur= e that it is=A0a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
=A0
Here are some crucial points which=A0= exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers=A0provide no dc= isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path here= .
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid of=A0one coax end is connected to the center
conductor at the sta= rt of the same=A0 coax (1:4) or of the next=A0 coax section (1:9 or higher= ).
This is not the case in this design.<= strong>The center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
=A0
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get easily=A0one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used as industrial RF= heater
was designed to be superlinear.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10= :43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:= 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 08:35:00=



Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2691 - Ausgabedatum: 02/16/= 10 08:35:00


--00032555a7eef4af6e047fc9f782-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE041-5eae4b6e92032ad; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:12:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCF55380001A7; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 05:12:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne474-0001KC-FQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne474-0001K3-4Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.35]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne472-00084c-En for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:34 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr15.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o17ABVHI014482 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:11:31 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:11:28 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <241261.34312.qm@web86504.mail.ird.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: active ant on metallic mast Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b6e92013f15 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Alan, Thank you for the hands up. Years ago an old hand told me that it made a lot of difference with the coax inside or outside the mast. But I don't know if the mast was grounded at the bottom, up on the roof or what else. So it is time to get a proper metalic mast and do some tests. Besides my SLM's, I now have a PERSEUS SDR for two years, which is not only an excellent receiver, but also a rather sophisticated piece of test gear. It has level meter, whith a 0.1 dB resolution, which is not a toy but accurate to 0.1 dB for relative measurements. The bandwidth can be set to 5 Hz if you like, which allows level measurements down to -143 dBm. And a 40 MHz spectrum analyzer with the noisefloor at -110 dBm, which is great in tracking down wide band noise, off air antenna tests etc. 73, Roelof, pa0rdt From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.77]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB031-85ef4b8394c63d; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:41:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1A8A3380000C2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:41:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqK7-0007sx-LX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqK7-0007sm-6s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqK5-0000g8-DG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:40:55 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8fZlA009665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8fZgw009662 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:41:35 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604d4b8394c47d44 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Mon, 22 Feb 2010, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > Well, perhaps it is not necessary to reach a "DX", DX becomes very=20 > relative in that frequency range. 50km sounds like a really good DX=20 > here. 50km would be real dx, because this is not near-field anymore. it is interesting to compare this with the other end of the spectrum. the= =20 microwavers are having great fun trying to span 200m. > But what about that WSPR mode, everyone was using before some weeks?=20 > Wouldn't that be a nice tool to try what's possible, for a first step? qrss cw is much easier to generate (eg. via a microcontroller) and doesn't= =20 need a linear PA. the whole setup is much easier do debug. > If 750m is possible with 2W TX power and 4m*14m loop then it should be= =20 > possible to reach some km with a grounded dipole of abt 2x500m. for the 750m test i used a different antenna. but i did reach 930m with=20 40W and a 4x14m vertical loop. a ground dipole should be great, especially if you live in an area with=20 low ground conductivity - the "loop" area gets larger this way the biggest problems in getting your signal out, apart from the antenna=20 size, is getting an electromagnetically quiet location. in my expierience in a noisy city location, with a 1.5x2.5m vertical=20 3-turn loop on a balcony, with 40W and qrss3: 100m - easy, i can hear the beacon by ear, even when it's 9kHz 300m - easy copy with spectrum lab 450m - still fine copy 550m - very weak signal, marginal copy the near field falls with the third power of distance, so it is hard to=20 get much further. this is a very practical setup, if you can find=20 someone 500m away from you to experiment. > Important is the achieved fascination, isn't it? What would you feel if= =20 > you would get a contact in QRSS10 to your next VLF interested neighbour,= =20 > say in 20km? I expect the biggest problem on VLF is to find a person who= =20 > is fascinated in the same manner than one self ;-) I do not know someone= =20 > in a radius of 50km who is interested :-( But i will discuss it in our= =20 > club... the next person who i know is very interested lives 220km from me :) it's= =20 a problem to find someone interested in 136kHz, so finding vlf entusiasts= =20 in your area might be a problem. > BTW, why exactly choosing 8,79 kHz (Horst?)?, why not 8,9 kHz? going lower in frequency avoids problems with key clicks and oscillator=20 drift going past the 9kHz barrier > We all have a great hobby, really! i'll drink to that! :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF --17435139-1052050329-1266914495=:3606-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.204]) by air-ma04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA044-b5234b859704259; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:15:48 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 56CE3380001A9; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:15:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOYe-0007L4-Kr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:12 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkOYd-0007Kq-Sb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:11 +0000 Received: from smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.233]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkOYa-0007cF-Cr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:14:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 49232 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2010 21:14:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=BwPK3OJhs3oQJI8vDFLKAjJ4BJO51LshECcN3MpFDEdIJ1zzTeOKhPJonGXsgwG+LozX2b3XNjg00XhN3mjZ1JzfxqS1QRxOVJSMd1UasAZy6MdA3CWmghT+8mo1ZdDH+q4sOBgSrkFhnDuTsQF7WjUNsDwMW6QULghoxXLNFko= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1267046041; bh=K8vEn1OKAiRn3vTIMhTSGzN8KF/ki4WqN08afNIbQZs=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=AbkQp1czi+s3sJmFEVOFzyGgLfsqRJj5P7J1wZWs7TQ3bcsGCKOy4EE3tsjzb1NocOrBBaxTIFJA5rMpesHREYE05HIBqMlZUK5BUvX/GPtNfGSIPb2IWg7fuB75WdAMBpXOhsNXsLpE+cltzo5CJFtUabIguZCxsgtSMYid0AQ= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp823.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2010 13:14:00 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: qPHJYa4VM1m8eW42CkEbSyVQtYzT5fEHzsbQLEZe556.EqmgEZL5P3x6BIoRspb6x5wdqBrWaWpKzBMLnYhlGUHzSL0dcfBg7k5yxbMSwy7MFczTS3b2WbklRq1YNV3ArpYKmkuMg2pAU8LOZO5O.zQSVVdpwCX51DcTlyQ8Zi5RY0ikWP26vKKmaCosOs.yvRFITedCtECyoVffICewwY5RP2sTqSs52rb5LICLzChOO_wasBQ08e9ggYWGJobB X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <6D84087F68F641C7938B42CE6067AA35@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:13:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55464 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cc4b8596fb705a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set up in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency - this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increases at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF - in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q of about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01CAB596.48548160 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="inv_L_Rloss.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="inv_L_Rloss.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDABQODxIPDRQSEBIXFRQYHjIhHhwcHj0sLiQySUBM S0dARkVQWnNiUFVtVkVGZIhlbXd7gYKBTmCNl4x9lnN+gXz/2wBDARUXFx4aHjshITt8U0ZT fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHz/wAAR CAGzAgEDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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[193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh0PP-0003At-DA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:50:39 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh0PN-0001NE-Re for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:50:39 +0000 Received: from COL122-W3 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:50:28 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:50:28 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2010 12:50:28.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[73A1EBB0:01CAAE3D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_" Subject: LF: XGJ X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b7943771169 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_" --_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Warren, LF! Your signal was very nice here last night. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_cdbfea4e-3eca-41d0-91f4-cb31cf3601c8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Warren, LF!
Your signal was very nice here last night.

Lub= os, OK2BVG, JN88KS


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--_6a35989f-8b94-4207-9e2c-b174cb061a0f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.15]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF031-5eea4b7493c233f; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:33:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8CE143800007F; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:33:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiW9-00037x-Be for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiW8-00037o-P6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:16 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiW6-0006DF-7b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:16 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1BNWDA0029800 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:13 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:12 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:32:12 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF7@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Thread-Index: AcqrYKNcQRLVwG9XQueyRDmVcxTy7AADRSan References: <04336A6FA0CA4A719B65FBD5A3C214D7@AGB><38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AF5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1265923210.3722.5.camel@gerhard-desktop> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.11.231819 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D" Subject: AW: AW: LF: Fiber optic components X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410f4b7493c05065 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerhard,=20 =20 Thank you! I haven't known that. The sensitivity of the SFH350V is maximal= at 850nm. But at 650nm it is still 57% and thus also usable. But if one= wants to get "the perfect system" this might be a guess...=20 =20 73! Stefan/DK7FC =20 PS: Nice signal in QRSS60 in the moment, well visible here. But the freque= ncy stability of my K2 is a desaster. That is one reason why i built my ow= n RX that will be supplied with the DDS-VFO...;-) =20 PPS: Before 2 h i hang up my ant for HF at the new QTH, a unsymmetric dipo= le, fed with ladder line and a homemade symmetric tuner and a homemade 500= W class E PA. The first QSO this year on HF, 80m seems almost to be SHF fo= r me, starting with that 3... ;-) The first QSO was to OE5MSM, who seems= to be a neighbor of Ossi/OE5ODL. He said he has a loop with 350m and 35m= up! And he is interested in LF! So i told him much of LF and tried to mot= ivate him. He is member of the EHSC (>300bpm) and promised, that we will= do a QRQ QSO on LF when he is QRV ;-) I gave him the hint to start visiti= ng the DF6NM grabber. Perhaps we will have another strong stn here from OE= ?! :-) If you live in near of him, pse ask him each day if he is QRV now= ;-) ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gerhard Hickl Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 22:20 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: LF: Fiber optic components Hello Stefan ! 850nm is visible too! It by far not that bright than "visible" light is, but nevertheless, still visible. 850nm is the typical wavelength used for MultiMode Fiber Connections. On a 50-62.5 Multimode-Fiber it usually can travel for up to one kilometer (850m is the nominal distance). The wavelength I am usually dealing with is 1310 or 1550nm (SDH and WDM equipment). So maybe you'll give the 850nm a try. I don't know if these components are cheaper than the 600nm but visibility is not the problem. Cheers OE3GHB Gerhard Am Donnerstag, den 11.02.2010, 20:25 +0100 schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer: > Hi Roelof, >=20 > My hint is http://www.elpro.org/shop.php?p=3DSFH+757+V for the SFH757V= (6,58EUR), which has the same wavelength (660nm) and less maximum forward= current. But the forward voltage is higher and maximum current is enough,= so perhaps even better than the SFH750, since the power at the same curre= nt, say 20mA, is higher. I know, 8XX nm could be better but i want to see= the light coming into the shack... >=20 > The SFH350V is available for 2,69 EUR there. >=20 > 73 es vy gl es pse rprt of your success :-) >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Roelof Bakker > Gesendet: Do 11.02.2010 19:06 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: Fiber optic components > > > > Hello Tracey, Graham, Robert, > > Thank you all. > Well, 21 pound is a bit stiff, me think. > I am not that desperate yet. > > These items are advertised as low cost.... > > I have also been looking for the components without the plastic housing. > However these are also hard to find. > > I will look into it a bit further. > > 73, > Roelof, pa0rdt > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0XAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy 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ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRlY2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAAv5w= ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAB72.6FB94E2D-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b71d759297; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:44:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 07994380001B3; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NexrY-0005D6-O0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:43:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NexrY-0005Cx-13 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:43:16 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) 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with SMTP id u14mr525960bkf.135.1265751784322; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:43:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:43:04 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974b71d7545179 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculations said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configured with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery. The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has two separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hides a big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and even to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructors. A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of coax giving one turn more than it appears to. It all falls out. ... life is worth living again ... ... can retire happy ... Andy www.g4jnt.com ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrote: > Andy, > > have a look here : > > http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf > > http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideband%20Transformers.pdf > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ > andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com > *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity > > > --00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fy= s.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0
--00032555b1f67a78c7047f31cd6a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-da01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA012-86114b83c9987; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:27:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 191EB38000114; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtpT-0000ix-Oj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjtpT-0000io-9q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: from smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjtpR-0002aF-NU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 57403 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2010 12:25:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=zaW8OAKNnaTJfLtutnPVNd2HOd44DTxvDZmG7V5AvvNzu0vrmNS+erBcPRHBb3spfbXpedya9i2HyNok7dJnY+MKuYjvwTOhqNjWmCwp3eQmZ2spedRv/y7yrbWZNkWNKqYIOOXSosDAUoxvx0o/UfM9QQWqZFAKK8vbivome3E= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266927923; bh=4uRCSHrqznqwM2wIsmh/t2vuK5X6h3S9ft97bomLn3E=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=MZ0+MXHU2lv6lhDJGYpK/QO6c23xdzxAvGAR6NU9Vjk1yV9tO3mrZf9MY5Mo7xzjiOxaDA7d3N+w4nxWIe9mP2Q+j2ix7p2JKU1hJOnqH+3fXLxUbNcXJ8uDWLoiZAFIm3VTnsoTVgmYeLH9oBM/mqJg54CGWEDUKBgtBjyGdXk= Received: from 64683d74b6134b3 (robertgjbennett@217.44.159.157 with login) by smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 12:25:22 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: khKbo3qswBAevJSEf.Soeh08VpP3pgtFENUUoUzoJw6opDkeTsHZWXMBHg-- X-YMail-OSG: YkBQQW0VM1nCKslW_OBj_NZC44CYssZiRvqLdHIJmz7UCxpvA6VVIOiK6.Z5dsEK7t06vBHdm3wy5spM.KNtcv_tFTum9f0v4iZQsswhPQ9BH5j6NMI47hm6LEYBJJ0NDuzMISCCjuTbblBA8kALzhOAhv5b7tgVquTatJylImqLiaAQZzcm6UAbFSbv2SN318OfDuSwCw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <9492A6AF01C240E0934E6CDA6BCA1EBF@64683d74b6134b3> From: "Robert Bennett" To: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:25:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d232.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b83c9972f0f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jacek My thought with laserscatter was that transmission at 20-30Hz might offer better propagation through the ground than 9kHz. 73 Robert > > without modifications wspr and laserscatter use frequencies which are too > low. > > jacek > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF064-5ef94b69477735d; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:52:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1B82038000043; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:52:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncbte-0002F4-5S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncbtd-0002Ev-KB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:41 +0000 Received: from n21.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.160]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncbtd-0005wj-4m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:51:41 +0000 Received: from [68.142.200.225] by n21.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 Received: from [68.142.201.66] by t6.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp418.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 179523.54056.bm@omp418.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 8033 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=tAvhQjOUvGDasV1nw1FOUoj6b5XLrQY60dz2BfWpYMXeFRhPNIhC2MoZTPl7yh0KoX0mRSbaD3VzRa7w3SnGlYSKoyC7M4j8ojBqGDwaTzOBye2WvvsZGeUF6FMch4cALV4SiJas1e/YhS9EY3+lcR5od01wAHofJPpNPTwkvnI= ; Received: from host86-144-172-144.range86-144.btcentralplus.com (ken.h.wright@86.144.172.144 with login) by smtp142.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 01:51:33 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: 9Y6mUHuswBAgnrOsukIiNdFDf95uy_Dz34nY1hlg2liKgYD952sjbg-- X-YMail-OSG: Ag2DWKkVM1kZX8DHbQBllCSjOVmhXbmP1MRHczV5IHc.ygvjDEG.qmSPKLn7GiR4xuNwEJWfgYVncGe8DNl01N6N3aO7MTVUN1ojnItzPV4onKImsh4J1rnYNSBePLpOFIQQoWJIviN.37139OpUOrp4PxmiUC9i_c.Tr_0.83R7qS0is9Uu6rBets.pTQSt3.dzOfTVY8Vza1_kSwPxJSjJd0JP_Je5iJdknQ1o9XAG9452ABVTrQbPiOVO24L8YKFbbOZ31pUhMXEeNoYD1PViNulngsdUMMCOPYMx7t0AIzEtEPIQe9.aLkzgqA0sKdWEzvbohZkgRy1t8McMhG4oSMHYbYr_xavdBqxKnEvEtmq.HwPDj80dFG5t7fpxosroISB0mBcPZtmU.T64B4R6jFA1fM57m3RVC7KLewemL3o3tqIu_v5G X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> From: "Ken" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:51:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b69477550d3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan. Thanks for the reply, if you know anyone in the telecoms industry try= and=20 obtain some off cuts of fibre, either 50/125 multimode, or 8/125 singl= e=20 mode, the first figure is the core diameter, the second the outer clad= ding=20 diameter all in microns, better still if you can persuade them to put= a=20 connector on the ends, I expect optical connectors have changed somewh= at=20 since I retired, also as Mal said dont use to tight bends or the fibre= may=20 fracture with time. Anything is possible, I did some experiments coupl= ing a=20 fibre into an ordinary flashlight for use as fibre identification, and= it=20 worked very well. Keep up the good work, when you have a good system= maybe=20 you will write a paper on it for us all, that is what our great hobby= is all=20 about. 73 Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:50 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hey Ken, Tnx for your statement. Well, i am not an expert in optic links and th= e=20 parts i choose are probably not the best, that are available for this= =20 application. Theese parts were available for me and they are suitable in principle,= =20 although the attenuation may be some dB less. Today i measured the gai= n of a=20 single BF862 in a preamp application for LF and i calculated a voltage= gain=20 of 26dB. Well, in that case it is not so important for me if the cable= has=20 3dB loss or 0,03dB loss. The main aspect is, that the local noise is= =20 decoupled. Because if it is not decoupled, the SNR can quickly decreas= e by=20 more than 20dB, as i saw. And 3dB losses are not 3dB less SNR. Perhaps the transmission system can be improved by using special parts= . But=20 are they available for everyone (private, not commercial customers) an= d are=20 they in a range below 5EUR? Perhaps you can tell me/us a more suitable= type=20 of cable that is perhaps even cheeper? The parts i use in the moment have no special mounting. The fiber opti= c=20 cable is just cut with a gripper and stuck plugged in the housing of= the=20 LED, thats all. And it can be done many times, thats important... So, do you have an idea of better parts that are cheep and available,= with=20 variable length of the cable, so not preassembled? :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Ken Gesendet: Mo 01.02.2010 18:56 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hi Stefan. 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km and modern single mode fibre at= 1300nm or 1550nm the attenuation is substantially less than 1dB/km. What opt= ical wavelength is the data sheet quoting this attenuation figure at? If yo= u are using a red LED into a single mode fibre then the attenuation will be= high, the launch power will also depend on how the LED is coupled into the= fibre, ideally the LED should be mounted in mating coupler so the so the fibr= e may be mated up to it, air gaps of fractions of a millimeter will introduc= e attenuation. The same applies when you mount your receive photodiode.= In the 1980's and 90,s I spent many years both specifying and commissioning= optical line sysyems in the UK. I hope this info will be of use to you. 73s. Ken M0KHW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: AW: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 Hello Chris, I am not a communication engineer (but a power electronic engineer ;-)= ), so rather an amateur in this field. So my answer is kept simple ;-) In the datasheet of this cable i just found that attenuation is less= than 150dB/km, so abt 3dB for my 20m cable. I have tried a cable of 2m (for indoor tests) and changed the cable to 20m. The difference (e.g. of DC= F39 in the Argo monitor) is less than one S unit. In the moment i use a SFH350V (photo transistor)as the receiver. But recently i read in the web that a photodiode has (significant) less no= ise. So i want to try a SFH250V in a next step to reduce the overall noise, probably in combination with a second BF862 in the input stage of the= RX. The SFH250V has even much better switching times. I have already order= ed some of those. I will try this and send the circuit here... The cable i use has a PE shielding which is not suitable to exist 10s= of years in the summer sun. But the distributor told me, it will be no pr= oblem for some years. And since LF is a living project, this is enough for= me. The losses of the cable must be compensated by a gain of an amplifier= within the system. This gain is not reached without a noise (e.g. by a OPA)= but this noise can be much smaller than the noise that you fed into a sens= itive RX antenna, i expect. But the main aspect is, that one doesn't have to= worry any more if it could be possible that a noise is fed from the PC/RX/ho= use to the preamp by the cable. 73s, Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Chris Trask Gesendet: So 31.01.2010 14:57 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the= BF862 > > Some OMs informed me, that the picture of the loop preamp is > in a strange design. That may be come, since i (have to) use > outlook exchange (?) > > Now i try to do it again. Those who asked for the picture, > please give my a short confirmation if the picture is in the > correct format now. > > I do some modifications to the RX in the moment and will send > the new and perhaps better circuit soon. But the setup is > already working vy fine! > That is a very interesting approach to minimizing induced noise= on the RX cable. What are the loss characteristics of the optical link, incl= uding the diode(s)? Chris Trask N7ZWY WDX3HLB Senior Member IEEE http://www.home.earthlink.net/~christrask/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.87]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB073-a7a34b8424541a2; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:54:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15EC23800008D; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:54:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzsL-0003PO-H1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjzsL-0003PF-2u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjzsI-0006Rd-J9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:52:53 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.67]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1NIqbm8017869 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:52:37 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (unknown [92.17.230.78]) by mtaout-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id B1213E0007AD for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:43:01 -0500 (EST) From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:42:59 +0000 Message-Id: <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29434b8421b54d0b X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a64b84244f4eb1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 James, I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation of the factors affecting global warming! On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > With best regards > > > > Jim > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > Roger > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > might join in. > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > Mal, > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > weak signal techniques this time. > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > wrote: > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > stns. > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > any of these modes. > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.19]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE081-5ebe4b687659e3; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:00:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 620A2380002BD; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNyK-0006vF-Br for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNyJ-0006v6-SX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:35 +0000 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNyH-0001R2-D8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:59:35 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuAEAMIEaEtOlvOe/2dsb2JhbACBbI03ymGERQQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,392,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="282007643" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.150.243.158]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 02 Feb 2010 18:59:09 +0000 Message-ID: <005901caa439$c7f713b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:59:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: G3KEV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41134b68765440fc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tnx agn Lubos. My TX 1/4 wave inv L antenna is doing the business, getting good repor= ts worldwide from near and far=20 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lubos OK2BVG=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: LF: G3KEV Hello Mal, LF! Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snapshot. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tnx agn Lubos.
My TX 1/4 wave inv L antenna is doin= g the=20 business, getting good reports worldwide from near and far
73 de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lub= os OK2BVG=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 02,= 2010 6:33=20 PM
Subject: LF: G3KEV

Hello Mal, LF!
Your signal is really excellent -= see the=20 attached snapshot.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA439.C7C02530-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.140]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD072-8b8d4b86a5ab167; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AABFC380001D3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:30:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkgao-0005mt-Td for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkgao-0005mk-GH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: from web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkgao-0006gU-AP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 6460 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 16:29:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267115372; bh=NfyuQ1NcCQAi7PYoIH+kSrDlS+hxwrCdow1mUaN8SwA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Kr+DdRhLQPqzH1DuPiw29fJ7LuQ0lcjssBQ4WlLpQHZ7wQGwem4l9y69tNac/rw5jBfIC22WM2U4zAEd1cVB6wYaaKnkkkB3uHzGy7vHRu8yDyjt7Pz8To9EvTYZ+0kPk79BmczIpyZHbQt6dLU2XldwRNk6QgCiwViYkLkaB1M= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Harxh2K8q1oXjoE43x8rUdD/k5QFc3U2cdudCWLtdqNR66HHa3PegSJwlEvjn6FnTMRW3WvOkerM66XXr+ceSBzUkgoUtGCJvshf8QzbmibZP4FicFphwDiBRRPAYTRnFZ3w1WQ2JVjOf4vDmJpuVSEQzEXCGg2jw20VqluikeE=; Message-ID: <444496.6419.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: MQFmac8VM1ktiS_XDwomq0dRLDgy50Lrr02W3wq1Sc30dfDjPqf75ELnlHMn1icD6b5ywMZUetmBIJDpTq7RMiTBJzbJ6VYZL5q8rT5snr.wfqRXNCu0.fkXfTh37baG3TYUwoR8eY02HsbsH.uevEMI9GPkyxewWkiTUupHfNgPBwHOP9g5Ims3T1gGVzvukBWUbcRzGZGeD3OIcxIz6Rh.4KF4315HYIIDlkRXS4ViWfCrGXUxYK7YkYvDkxoQ5OxmkTMEKv68J7zy_l4k_Kk- Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:29:32 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:29:32 -0800 (PST) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-640322957-1267115372=:6419" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d257.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408c4b86a5a962c8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Group=20 As an indication of what can be heard using a Sound Card RX, SAQ when on,= is very strong with me using just an Inv Vee 80m dipole strapped feeder.= Russian Alpha stations 10 to 15 kc/s=A0tend to vary in strength but at th= e moment 16;12 UTC 25/2/2010=A0they are peaking about12dB above the mean= noise floor. Clear audio using Winrad filter set to100c/s and well define= d trace on the water fall display. =A0 I don't think there is any issues receiving in the 7 / 9 kc/s region. But= we are talking weak signal FFT software for reception and relatively shor= t range for Amateurs judging by previous work done in this part of the spe= ctrum. =A0 Interesting to note there are no official allocations below 9kc/s in the= UK according to Ofcomic's publication :-- =A0=A0 ITU-R Allocations and Footnotes in Region 1 only Allocation to United Kingdom Services Current Use in the United Kingdom Below 9 kHz (not allocated) RR444, 445 Below 9 kHz=20 (not allocated) The band below 9 kHz is not allocated for use in the UK =A0 =A0These audio loops for hard of hearing do not appear to require a TAX ta= ke either! 73 es GL petefmt =A0 =20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Group
As an indication of what can be heard using a Sound Card RX, SA= Q when on, is very strong with me using just an Inv Vee 80m dipole= strapped feeder. Russian Alpha stations 10 to 15 kc/s tend to vary= in strength but at the moment 16;12 UTC 25/2/2010 they are peaking= about12dB above the mean noise floor. Clear audio using Winrad filter set= to100c/s and well defined trace on the water fall display.
 
I don't think there is any issues receiving in the 7 / 9 kc/s region.= But we are talking weak signal FFT software for reception and relatively= short range for Amateurs judging by previous work done in this part of th= e spectrum.
 
Interesting to note there are no official allocations below 9kc/s in= the UK according to Ofcomic's publication :--
  
= ITU-R Allocations and Footnot= es in Region 1 only<= /TD> = Allocation to United Kingdom= Services = Current Use in the United Kin= gdom
Below 9 kHz

(not allocated)

RR444, 445=

Below 9 kHz

(not allocated)

 The band below 9 kHz= is not allocated for use in the UK
 
 These audio loops for hard of hearing do not appear to require= a TAX take either!

73 es GL petefmt

 

=20 --0-640322957-1267115372=:6419-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.96]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF013-5ee44b86d8ad25e; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:08:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 72EC23800009D; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:08:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkjyx-0007RG-Sr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkjyx-0007R7-8q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.28]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkjyv-0008Fx-Qw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:06:47 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W1 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s17.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:06:39 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: , Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:06:38 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2010 20:06:39.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A5B9FE0:01CAB656] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_" Subject: LF: Reverse PLT QRM - From Electrical supply power meter X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b84b86d8ac7a64 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Ive been talking about my qrm on 137 khz for some time and have long susp= ected the ABB/Landis/Gyr/Hunt mechanical electrical meter as installed by= the electrical power company on their side on the incoming 2 phase supply= - =20 =20 They use remote data collection using the power lines at a very low data= rate- with a "Turtle" module installed inside the meter - aka http://www.barronelectric.com/energy/turtletech.html and "The Turtle modul= e is installed in the meter at your house and the consumption information= is sent to a Turtle receiver at the nearest electrical substation, using= the power lines. From there, the information is delivered by phone to the= Turtle software in the Electric Meter Shop, where the information is proc= essed for the billing department. The entire process takes about 27 hours= to complete, thus, the name =93Turtle=94. =20 =20 Its a low bit rate device - trouble is it was injecting wide band old styl= e car ignition noise at some S7 and radiating using the house wiring - Noi= se was audible at some strength from 70-500Khz. The electrical company muc= h to their credit didnt blow me off - especially when I held a Eton style= SSB rx near the meter and when the guy unplugged the "EVM" turtle device= and the noise dissapeared - he tried different models, capacitors etc but= unable to clear. =20 The final resolution was the electrical supply company to completely remov= e this device from inside the meter and will now come round and "read' the= mechanical meter once a month - a backwards step in their view money/time= savings but they agreed that this PLT system in incompatiable with my noi= se level needs. =20 just a heads up if your encountering a similar noise.... =20 I now have a much better s/n down on 137 =20 Laurence KL 1X Wasilla Alaska WE2XPQ =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/=3D --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Ive been talking about  my qrm on 137 khz for some time and have long= suspected the ABB/Landis/Gyr/Hunt mechanical electrical meter as installe= d by the electrical power company on their side on the incoming 2 phase su= pply -
 
 
They use remote data collection using the power lines at a very low data= rate- with a "Turtle" module installed inside the meter  - aka<= BR> http://ww= w.barronelectric.com/energy/turtletech.html and "The Turtle= module is installed in the meter at your house and the consumption inform= ation is sent to a Turtle receiver at the nearest electrical substation,= using the power lines. From there, the information is delivered by phone= to the Turtle software in the Electric Meter Shop, where the information= is processed for the billing department. The entire process takes about= 27 hours to complete, thus, the name =93Turtle=94. 
 
Its a low bit rate device - trouble is it was injecting wide band old styl= e car ignition noise at some S7 and radiating using the house wiring - Noi= se was audible at some strength from 70-500Khz. The electrical company muc= h to their credit didnt blow me off - especially when I held a Eton style= SSB rx near the meter and when the guy unplugged the "EVM" turtle device= and the noise dissapeared - he tried different models, capacitors etc but= unable to clear.
 
The final resolution was the electrical supply company to completely remov= e this device from inside the meter and will now come round and "read' the= mechanical meter once a month - a backwards step in their view money/time= savings but they agreed that this PLT system in incompatiable with my noi= se level needs.
 
just a heads up if your encountering a similar noise....
 
I now have a much better s/n down on 137
 
Laurence KL 1X Wasilla Alaska
WE2XPQ


Hotmail: Powerful Free email= with security by Microsoft. Get it now. =3D --_f63da6cc-797e-479f-b1ca-4e7eae5dfca5_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.143]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA084-86924b67ece91cf; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:14:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0AF08380000F7; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:14:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEo5-0004V1-HH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEo5-0004Us-5c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcEo2-0005Uh-6O for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:25 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX7005LUIWDBQ@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:12:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:12:10 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <09658415B8E144399852F337830DCE7F@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 02-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1NJ1W2MkwUJ5DQFmp05mpw)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608f4b67ece703f2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_1NJ1W2MkwUJ5DQFmp05mpw) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w)" --Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz ,and also audible, henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 02-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_l3jJ8FC0jifCOsGtYFCk/w) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hello Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC  507.77Khz ,and also audible,
henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 02-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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+0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxm2-0005Et-0y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:16 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2815062bwz.4 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=NHuh44ai00Ensi+hy/vbwHcW0iQz0GuRZ3HOAJjz6VM=; b=KUonewdFtz+Qg0MMo8dmhvQTwp1TH4ZpoaWkoPZOW1OowZV/jvughY5haRKFsui8LW ke7N7X9jR0rX5RKB7ZTvYWmI672sATxFsThSAIaLeIfEuiOk0YUC41iq38614X32GjVe D2k5hggGSqWMoSJxkJ4JWZgtaWoApqEQFMDao= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=wPeG4DWPylFCLetlxiHPLMdl8/kifvRHjYGHRpAn3awxfjXVxPJPKsAT1T0g6IczQV oIh+slsiPiePCTJlUBj8ezkdLShzgaWazbmJsKW/jCvXEmwUUNnKNHcwFRAW22aR6j6j kPiZpPViNavW+jv8+z1/GvJyP9LVWz8O2rVuw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.82 with SMTP id s18mr1146765bkd.94.1266943087051; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:06 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: DATA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555e862a784580480472c75 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d303.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60924b8404b87d45 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555e862a784580480472c75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mal, G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK today (on CW and *not* by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands and does not need much power. There is *lots* of WSPR activity on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best weak signal techniques this time. Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to express your views, even if we choose to differ. 73s Roger G3XBM On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton wrote: > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far as 24 Mcs. > Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA stns. > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet transmissions > but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, the novelty > wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB and RTTY are still going > strong. > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring to the fly by > night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the JT, wspr etc, tuning > across the bands today I did not hear any of these modes. > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It would appear > MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen out. I have a > suitable RX and antenna. > Your observations ? > > de G3KEV > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --00032555e862a784580480472c75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email.

Yes,= HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on 10m from the UK= today (on CW and not by me). I was able to decode the 1W WSPR sign= als on 10m from V53ARC (running just 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W)= yesterday. WSPR is hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF= bands and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity= on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out fleeting ope= nings. PSK31 is widely used of course.

Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great distances wi= ll be spanned, but there is much that can be learned from such experiments= . I have experimented with this in the past and hope to do so again soon,= but using the best weak signal techniques this time.

Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not help= ful.=A0 However, it's a free country and you're entitled to expres= s your views, even if we choose to differ.

73s
Roger G3XBM
<= br>
On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talkt= alk.net> wrote:
Generally band condx vy good at prese= nt from LF to=20 HF as far as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA= =20 stns.
What is noticeable is the lack of Amt= or, Pactor and=20 packet transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the=20 years.
Observations indicate that data mode= acty does not=20 last long, the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB an= d RTTY=20 are still going strong.
Some will argue that cw and rtty are= data but I am=20 referring to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all the= JT,=20 wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear any of these=20 modes.
Obviously the majority of ham operato= rs are not=20 interested. It would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the=20 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!!
If you fancy your chances on VLF belo= w 9 Kcs I will=20 listen out.=A0I have a suitable RX and antenna.
Your observations ?
=A0
de G3KEV
=A0
=A0



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--00032555e862a784580480472c75-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.96]) by air-dd04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD042-86324b673c08265; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:39:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 175F138000217; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:39:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc32Y-00031M-K7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc32Y-00031D-7v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from smtp09.online.nl ([194.134.42.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc32W-0001Z9-4a for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:38:34 +0000 Received: from smtp09.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp09.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636DC1E0C1 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp09.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:38:26 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp09.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40604b673c067c2b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thaks for the report Lubos, 73 Victor PA3FNY -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 2010 21:14 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: 500kHz Hello LF! I saw two very nice signals on 500kHz Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thaks for the=20 report Lubos,
 
73
 
Victor
PA3FNY
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: maandag 1 februari 2010 21:14
Aan:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 500kHz

Hello LF!
I saw two very nice signals= on=20 500kHz

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s antispamovou techn= ologi=ED Microsoft Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CAA386.E3059720-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI062-eacb4b6cc9af3ad; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:45:19 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 42F11380000DA; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZiX-0001DI-96 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdZiW-0001D9-Jy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:12 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdZiV-0008Au-CL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:44:12 +0000 Received: from COL122-W42 ([65.55.34.8]) by col0-omc1-s13.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:44:03 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:44:03 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Feb 2010 01:44:03.0574 (UTC) FILETIME=[DCC2C960:01CAA6CD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_" Subject: LF: PA0A X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b6cc9ae5c72 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_" --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF! The signal of PA0A is very big here - see the attachement. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ E-mail na cesty =96 z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LF!
The signal of PA0A is very big here - see the attachement.
Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

E-mail na= cesty =96 z=EDskejte zdarma Windows Live Hotmail. Zaregistrovat =3D --_dfd666fc-6125-4c9a-b0ab-ec7a6d5c78d3_-- --_99ce6fa5-7b17-463d-8cf7-4a98002c3e3d_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100206_PA0A.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAAvAT8DASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 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1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.213]) by air-df08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF084-5f014b726aa422f; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:13:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8418C3800023F; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:13:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf7fm-0005qp-0Q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nf7fl-0005qg-Ki for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:45 +0000 Received: from mx75.mail.ru ([94.100.176.90]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nf7fj-0007wH-6b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:11:45 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=40203 helo=EFREMOV) by mx75.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Nf7fM-0000tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:11:20 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:09:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: swl 136 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54750 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d54b726aa26f5e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, Captures last night: WD2XGJ VO1NA OE5ODL G3XDV PA3CPM 73 Andrey ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="xgj.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="xgj.jpg" /9j/4QDmRXhpZgAASUkqAAgAAAAFABIBAwABAAAAAQAAADEBAgAcAAAASgAAADIBAgAUAAAA ZgAAABMCAwABAAAAAQAAAGmHBAABAAAAegAAAAAAAABBQ0QgU3lzdGVtcyBEaWdpdGFsIElt YWdpbmcAMjAxMDowMjoxMCAxMDo1ODozNgAFAACQBwAEAAAAMDIyMJCSAgAEAAAAODkwAAKg BAABAAAAvgAAAAOgBAABAAAAHAAAAAWgBAABAAAAvAAAAAAAAAACAAEAAgAEAAAAUjk4AAIA 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rp4JM0dJII2X6FQR6YtnpKVZmVaWIAMbAIPrj0vTLZg26VFAn4FJWozX/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAA41.91EC2950-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.13]) by air-dc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC013-864d4b82b12e34; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:30:39 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5A42838000114; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbAC-0002M7-2C for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbAB-0002Ly-Nr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:39 +0000 Received: from cmsout01.mbox.net ([165.212.64.31]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbA9-00036V-F8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:39 +0000 Received: from cmsout01.mbox.net (cmsout01-lo [127.0.0.1]) by cmsout01.mbox.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A62312AC701 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net [165.212.11.138] by cmsout01.mbox.net via smtad (C8.MAIN.3.61T) with ESMTP id XID849oBVqdE4624X01; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:30 -0000 X-USANET-Source: 165.212.11.138 IN dibene@usa.net cmsapps02.cms.usa.net X-USANET-MsgId: XID849oBVqdE4624X01 Received: from [192.168.1.2] [151.47.216.174] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ESMTPA/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.3.53P) with ESMTPA id 328oBVqdC8672M38; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:28 -0000 X-USANET-Auth: 151.47.216.174 AUTH dibene@usa.net [192.168.1.2] Message-ID: <4B82B0E6.9070603@usa.net> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:29:26 +0100 From: Alberto di Bene User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Z-USANET-MsgId: XID328oBVqdC8672X38 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4b82b12b1e7a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On 2/22/2010 5:22 PM, Warren Ziegler wrote: > I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let > alone 9kHz! That's why it is interesting... were it easy, then it would be for appliance operators... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4b8539c7280; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B11F938000125; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIMH-0005WE-UF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkIMH-0005W4-Jt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkIME-0004Vp-Lr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:01 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1OEasar047092 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:36:55 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00290 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:52 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:51 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:36:56 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=koi8-r X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b8539c55b24 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Tue, 23 Feb 2010, [iso-8859-1] Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > So we have to spend a high coupling capacity to ground (at the end=20 > of Pete's inv-L) It does not matter where capacity conected: at the end of inv-L or at the feeding point. Add condenser Cp between ground stake and antenna! Then a foil is needless. Regards, Alexander From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.220]) by air-dc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC061-86024b88c41c2ab; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:05:00 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4AB8438000088; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:04:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlGhq-00050W-Pa for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlGhq-00050N-5H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlGhm-0002nM-Ni for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:03:18 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYH003H6NL661@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:03:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:03:06 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4FCC2F0F3D484AE8B57920262B283664@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 27-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55570 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dc4b88c41a7899 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ)" --Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 27-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_7ZvR2il9fmdblwW1nZmPEQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 27-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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4JGapXY9EdYafAt6sYNSuuZ++XjaBFHmZ5eHQB9RsJouADgIlUqOo9gvTE3qwBiBHm2+YSxW 8FcN6MwcY9RIsdImXgWWUeamgwOpVfzojJX5gOJbnO25/nT/2Q== --Boundary_(ID_HGWtaItVzDLWctHYkLDKoA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.139]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b728d99217; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:42:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B6D2C380015F2; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfA0G-0006E0-Uc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfA0G-0006Dr-Kb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfA0D-0000o7-Kk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:41:04 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o1AAerj3024009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0330 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:10:53 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Message-ID: References: <4B71CF73.9633.19A4B37@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <001101caaa28$9ff49320$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: Re: LF: swl 136 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608b4b728d896fe9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi Andrey, Thanks for the report and capture. VX9MRC will be on CW 507.77 kHz for a few days. 73 Joe VO1NA On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, rn3agc wrote: > Hello Warren, Joe, Ossi, Mike, Henny, LF, > > Captures last night: > > WD2XGJ > VO1NA > OE5ODL > G3XDV > PA3CPM > > 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.87]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME043-8bae4b854dc3359; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2CFF8380002A6; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJgp-0005ty-CW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJgo-0005tp-W3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:18 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJgl-0005GC-Sl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:02:18 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B71B7B8047 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.11]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38AD31E702 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N1.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.11]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:56 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:01:54 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1XqJg4CXyh+C9Tj2B2DDkRM4PYQACgv9I Message-ID: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B13@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60574b854dbb1001 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Alexander, if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. "Ground loss" at my QTH:=20 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm=20 The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) then at 9kHz the loss= resistance would be almost 2 kOhm. Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the lo= sses. But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a 30mH= coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more conve= nient value. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com] Verzonden: woensdag 24 februari 2010 22:35 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems > > So, the coil losses decrease with it's L (assuming a given wire diameter= , > coil diameter and spacing and so on) and thus it is good to decrease the > needed L. You can decrease L only by condenser in parallel with a antenna. But then only part of coil current will flow thrue the ant (and ground stake also). Let's describe some numerical example. Let antenna capacity (denoted as Ca) is 1 nF (large antenna!). Resistance of grounding we assume 1000 Ohm (huge resistance!). Parralel C (Cp) we assume to be 100 nF. Then L=3D3= .2 mH. Let coil resistance is 1 Ohm (large coil!) and coil current I is 1 A. Then coil loss is 1 W. Antenna current for Ca< Received: from mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.213]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB091-85f54b7a5f1f3e2; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:02:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03E6C38000488; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhJIc-0004rt-AR for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhJIb-0004rk-P5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:53 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.159]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhJIY-0007iL-V6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:53 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DEDA87000083; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D1FB07000086; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.22.49]) by mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5328F7000083; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:00:42 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100216090042340.5328F7000083@mwinf3433.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: Cc: "John Hudson" Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:00:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100216-0, 16/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: GB4FPR 502 / 3566 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d54b7a5f1d0da2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GB4FPR will be operating later on to day to this evening=20 502 tx xtal control=20 RX - 501>504 & 3566 +/- =20 Pls take look=20 Tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GB4FPR will be operating later on to&= nbsp; day=20 to  this evening
 
502 tx xtal control
 
RX -  501>504   &am= p;  3566=20 +/- 
 
Pls take  look
 
Tnx - G .


------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CAAEE6.7E40D690-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.23]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC024-86a04b865391263; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:40:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8B848380000BC; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:40:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkb7P-0001jC-Ji for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkb7O-0001j3-SN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:54 +0000 Received: from web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.122]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkb7O-00030j-EV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 9430 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1267094327; bh=17dNAWOWslaM9EigBG5bxiCq3U3wbDy6WELZKjKyVqg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IIQd1PXrXr/BtBvQGLutFNiTpekYUJnRBB1gKcN+fqEk778ewhAQSfGEKMGiaYsx8q6HvGi3ggRzgUEHmkfHCd9pEu5WqDBe5sze8Ffps7pM3mDMZ8QURUwbiBzQTRVGTwqMbo19GIrcvo4KcFZdcdA63kplH1K6tO+LFOmIMWs= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WyA4t3lD8iB7WoNIBIZ3VnQ/k9RcbIo99QgHG1t5DJT9YwCIATsQibObJtWMRWv3CaeOPDJwD3xt+O3/AvjtulSQC7i3TbZ/pWopxR1k6pCO+/Ymnw3qdJ96dYYkX7fZMFMJiGtLu+nQBWXBZsMVvBr+PVEign9eP4+ijOBRyKE=; Message-ID: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: yVPGcOcVM1l4Hf.fiA7F3inJqQ0tZ.2RbvTxUcCRIwatfZtLf6VuxiJE4rBO6A2_JZ.vzovPMrZNlkRkzYzcvlJ1kDAUFkvTbiKOZpFUALIKMwoTokfyMrc3VXTxsuK1kYVngD.Ntz157z4gSxlFcoKrDM7yLd.lEiOvnyqqaH_jjIPP2V2tjPhvq6ZLAdm4OLRJoAEK05Ul8j_gOjaZl2_yu_XwWorVfE6QdWIEP3B0rjoti6SZ7OmnNdocx3IfVLaM4tKWRV0Ujr9yd8p15ws1Qb8- Received: from [81.129.13.50] by web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:47 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <2021F4D9DCF542B290883FF2F30AB357@lindavideo> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d235.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60174b86538f2eb0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket and ins= tall either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You then have DC to= 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very very weak signals. Us= ing SDR software you can then record the result in real time spectrum allo= wing it to be processed by others.=20 =A0 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2kc/s. =A0 It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/s and= or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 =A0 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercise I= can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is gettin= g better I=A0will be able to get out working on the antenna. =A0 Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m and an earth= electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load these antennas becau= se my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about 1 Henry will diss= ipate most of the power which means it be=A0getting very very hot and prob= ably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impractical!=A0Some ideas ha= ve been kicked around on the is reflector and off list there may be someth= ing I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with interest, could yo= u put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW=A0 =A0 IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40= m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical antenna set= up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The attached graph= =20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for= =20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field= =20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, clo= se to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas= was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open=A0 field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the= =20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -= =20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna voltage increase= s=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The text books sa= y, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at= low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will eventually cau= se resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a= =20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz. The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher= at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitabl= e=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF= -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with a Q= of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If you tolerated= =20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar inductance with= a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of= =20 the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic socket an= d install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application.= You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result in= real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.
 
This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on= 17.2kc/s.
 
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.8125kc/= s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
 
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this exercis= e I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the weather is get= ting better I will be able to get out working on the antenna.
 
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12= /13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil about= 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be getting= very very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally impra= ctical! Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector and of= f list there may be something I can try.

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken= <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com><= BR>Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgDate: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05

Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX= here in Luton over the weekend if
that would help. I have been followi= ng this thread with interest, could you
put up some diagrams etc of you= r parallel capacitor and other antenna
configurations and formulae.
=
73.
Ken
M0KHW    IO91TV

-----Original Message--= ---
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 Februar= y 2010 21:14
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kH= z

Dear LF Group,

A couple of years ago I did some measuremen= ts of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m
long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, an= d also a near-identical antenna set up
in the middle of a field away= from trees and buildings. The attached graph
shows Rloss plotted agai= nst frequency over the range 10kHz to 600kHz for
both antennas. At all= frequencies, the loss resistance of the open-field
antenna is much lo= wer than the home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by
numerous small= trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close

to= the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas was=

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At 10kHz, the open&= nbsp; field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R for the
home QTH an= tenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with frequency -
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna= voltage increases
at lower frequencies for a given current) in both= cases. The text books say,

for electrically small antennas, that= dielectric losses will dominate at low

frequencies, while at high= frequencies the skin effect will eventually cause

resistance to st= art increasing - in the case of the open field antenna, a
turn-over po= int might have been reached at a few hundred kHz.

The 50R figure su= ggests that antenna efficiency might actually be higher at
9kHz than= people are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable
loa= ding coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around 350pF -=
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around 0.7H with= a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If yo= u tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar= inductance with a Q

of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading capac= itance of
the antenna would definitely be useful...

Cheers, Jim= Moritz
73 de M0BMU


=20 --0-1926506509-1267094327=:8525-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-mb06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB061-a6fc4b8aa62914f; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:21:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A46D1380000FD; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:21:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlmns-00079L-CK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlmnr-00079C-Le for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:39 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlmnb-0000ZR-25 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:39 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100228171903.BAUA4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:03 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlmnD-0002Es-SE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:19:00 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:18:55 -0000 Message-ID: <018001cab89a$1c193990$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Thread-Index: Acq4k7nGIEENA0QuT069AsCiAjadawABcuxw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=U3yr3vjJangA:10 a=xyUxglCxLFtfn4GjCZ4A:9 a=y_i88FsigkvcRBPuufEk8F5mMREA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b8aa6270a50 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Tim, I wouldn't worry, not many folks take Mal too seriously. He's a bit vexatious but it comes from being an ex-pat and having to live in Scarborough (good fish and chips though!) With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > > G3KEV > Snip > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater amateur community. Tim M0AFJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj06.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.142]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b79338223d; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:44:02 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BCA7E3800015D; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:44:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NgzLv-0002xr-W7 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NgzLv-0002xi-IY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from psmtp30.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NgzLt-0000vq-H8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:42:59 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp30.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXV00L1CSJF7H@psmtp30.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:42:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:42:51 +0100 From: henny van elst To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-id: <4B9E110D122F4106B8BE2D4DEDCB35EB@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <022B79181CFC4A0EB7964FE9BA4F6C9F@White> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0b4b7933802f45 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Marcus, the rec.is a ROHDE&SCHWARZ EK891,the antenne is a mod.minniwip I use speclab.v2.73B1 and then the multi-strip mode,and I lool between the intervals of the transmision on 136.317.4khz, henny pa3cpm best 73s ----- Original Message ----- From: Markus Vester To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Dear Henny, you seem to be doing a great job receiving on 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am wondering whether you are just listening during TX breaks, or have special filtering in place to avoid receiver overloading and suppress transmitter noise? Either way, well done! Best 73, Markus, DF6NM From: henny van elst Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM To: blacksheep Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg Hi Joe,LF Traces VX9MRC Henny pa3cpm 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: MRC 14-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2689 - Release Date: 02/15/10 07:35:00 --Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Marcus,
the rec.is a ROHDE&SCHWARZ EK891,= the antenne is=20 a mod.minniwip
I use speclab.v2.73B1 and then the mu= lti-strip=20 mode,and I lool between the intervals of the transmision on=20 136.317.4khz,
henny pa3cpm
best 73s
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 20= 10 11:46=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: VX9 MRC 14-0= 2.jpg

Dear Henny,
 
you seem to be doing a great job&nb= sp;receiving=20 on 500 kHz, while transmitting a beacon signal on 136. I am=20 wondering whether you are just listening during TX breaks, or&n= bsp;have=20 special filtering in place to avoid receiver overloading and=20 suppress  transmitter noise? Either way, well done!
 
Best 73,
Markus, DF6NM

Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: LF: VX9 MRC 14-02.jpg

Hi Joe,LF
Traces VX9MRC
Henny pa3cpm
73s
Het bericht kan nu= met het=20 volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
MRC=20 14-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beve= iliging=20 tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijla= gen niet=20 toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wil= t weten=20 hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.=20


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AV= G -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2689 - Re= lease=20 Date: 02/15/10 07:35:00
--Boundary_(ID_dFj1+0rc4gxew1rMSghPWg)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC034-a8de4b8a1acb209; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:27:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B997338000085; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NldWx-0001OB-69 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NldWw-0001O2-EZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:34 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl ([194.134.41.32]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NldWu-0006JU-66 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:25:34 +0000 Received: from smtp02.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC3FA2B2 for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp02.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:25:27 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp02.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: WPF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4b8a1ac921f3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lubos, same signal here also very strong,wpf very weak at about4:00z.Looked= like local qrm,but it isn't, 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2010 5:48 Aan: _RSGB_LF Onderwerp: LF: WPF Hello LF! I saw good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crosse= d by strange and very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what= it is? I saw the same picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The sig= nal was 30dB up the noise. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 Lubos,
 
same signal=20 here also very strong,wpf very weak at about4:00z.Looked like local qr= m,but it=20 isn't,
 
73
 
Victor
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: zondag 28 februari 2010 5:48
Aan:<= /B>=20 _RSGB_LF
Onderwerp: LF: WPF

Hello LF!<= BR>I saw=20 good signal of WPF in QRSS60 as usual. Suddenly, It was crossed by= strange and=20 very strong - see the enclosure. Does anybody know, what it is? I sa= w the same=20 picture on my remote receiver outside the city. The signal was 30dB= up the=20 noise.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG

Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antisp= amovou ochranou Zaregistrovat
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CAB84F.95333A10-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.86]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA104-86944b681f39343; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:48:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E7C653800010E; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcIAU-0005So-9T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcIAT-0005Sf-Mf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:45 +0000 Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com ([209.85.220.210]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcIAR-00078n-2T for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:47:45 +0000 Received: by fxm2 with SMTP id 2so1283868fxm.29 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:47:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Z8IAkWoMWKJ4QKuM35C4utdYyLObvuNUNX1RNmQATOk=; b=vB902XmIVGWZLJhQjRhiBPDw78dxwjCuBootsd0xrTxlCf38D4V3cDL50V7JUXWxrw 6F+Rsmh9GTY2ZGnOI7Weqj6CCsjmn0FM1RYF4ssooyw/Q1HH+PaJIzGYJV9cCBKQpMir w1HTSGSjqUmESctVb/VVGZnAbeQG8s6tvrOT8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mF04LW/cANSOtBoHE38pN5KYfIxpWJgz+kN6jALy+AG867oiPaB4Sb3b64XlSCbVIL TBopn7J0RV3MPxbvTh2HipGiZCU91dxIXRbX2YSOago0+HVZH7RlLIbi2vWwEfZxMjIk tWPDwQKaM/8OG5LuUFXX/epS0IhSursGe52Mg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.150.79 with SMTP id m15mr949494hbb.32.1265114856076; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:47:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:47:36 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Loop preamp with the BF862 / optical link Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60564b681f376800 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 An experimental system I tested for work a few years ago used the low cost optical components from RS, the HBR2404 and 1404 devices with polymer cable. This was for a remote wide band antenna with full galvanic isolation. Measurements suggested 60dB dynamic range was feasible and an anlogue bandwidth in excess of 200MHz from a discrete drive and the optiacl recevers own internal preamp. Noise figure wasn't a problem, but I do recall it being the the 'sub 10dB' region, adequate for hight HF through VHF. The 60dB dynamic range was not good enough for our HF bands requirements, so another route was taken , but when used with a high Q antenna over a limited band, should be quite adequate. The old analogue cable TV systems used fibre (to the street corner where it was turned directly into RF for the coax final run. Based on a few back-of-envelope calculations, at the bandwidth needed of 2GHz or so, must have had a total effective dynamic range in the 80dB region to avoid visible degradation on nearly 100 analogue TV signals. Andy www.g4jnt.com This email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health and safety police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to health, but may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions On 2 February 2010 11:57, James Moritz wrote: > Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group, > > If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a polymer > fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few metres, > rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so fibre loss > is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago used visible > red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. The plastic fibre > could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into the > emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requiring > precision optical connectors. There is an overview at > http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN > > Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency gain > component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute > towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the > electrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the > fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the > detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will > contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by > itself is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage > driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high input > impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical > link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonably low. > > Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue optical > link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will also be > produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously works, so the > principle is viable. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM > Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sending the pic of my loop preamp with the > BF862 > > > Hi Stefan. >> 150dB/km, is a very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm >> multimode fibre was only 1 or 2dB /km... >> > > > --001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
An experimental system I tested for work a few years ago used the low= cost optical components from RS, the HBR2404 and 1404 devices with polyme= r cable.=A0 This was for a remote wide band antenna with full galvanic iso= lation.=A0=A0 Measurements suggested 60dB dynamic range was feasible and= an anlogue bandwidth in excess of 200MHz from a discrete drive and the op= tiacl recevers own internal preamp.=A0=A0=A0 Noise figure wasn't a pro= blem, but I do recall it being the the 'sub 10dB' region, adequate= for hight HF through VHF.
=A0
The 60dB dynamic range was not good enough for our HF bands requireme= nts, so another route was taken , but when used with a high Q antenna over= a limited band, should be quite adequate.=A0
=A0
The old analogue cable TV systems used fibre (to the street corner wh= ere it was turned directly into RF for the coax final=A0run.=A0=A0Based on= a few back-of-envelope calculations, at the bandwidth needed=A0of 2GHz or= so, must have had a total effective dynamic range in the 80dB region to= avoid visible degradation on nearly 100 analogue TV signals.
=A0
=A0
Andy
www.g4jnt.com

Thi= s email has been scanned for damaging side-effects by the health and safet= y police, is guaranteed to contain no substances hazardous to health, but= may contribute to dissolving the nether and polar regions


On 2 February 2010 11:57, James Moritz <james.moritz= @btopenworld.com> wrote:
Dear Ken, Stefan, LF Group,
If I remember correctly, the components Stefan is discussing use a= polymer fibre and are intended for short-distance optical links of a few= metres, rather than telecomms-type applications with miles of fibre, so= fibre loss is not really an issue. The ones I encountered some years ago= used visible red LEDs, although I think there were infra-red ones too. Th= e plastic fibre could be simply cut with a sharp knife, and clamped into= the emitter/detector components with reasonable results, rather than requ= iring precision optical connectors. There is an overview at http://www.avago= tech.com/docs/AV00-0143EN

Of course, since the optical link is effectively a signal-frequency ga= in component in the receiver front end, its noise figure will contribute= towards the receiver noise figure. Since the overall efficiency of the el= ectrical/optical/electrical conversion is rather low, with the loss of the= fibre in addition, there will be much less signal power coming out of the= detector than going in to the emitter. Also the detector and emitter will= contribute their own noise. So the noise figure of the optical link by it= self is probably rather high. But the FET voltage-to-current input stage= driving the emitter will have a high power gain due to the very high inpu= t impedance, which would greatly reduce the impact of noise in the optical= link - clearly the overall noise level in Stefan's system is reasonab= ly low.

Most optical links are used with digital signals, so this analogue opt= ical link is quite unusual - as well as noise, distortion products will al= so be produced by the optical link. But DK7FC's antenna obviously work= s, so the principle is viable.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


----- Original Message --= --- From: "Ken" <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: 2nd try of sen= ding the pic of my loop preamp with the BF862


Hi Stefan.
150dB/km, is a= very high loss for modern fibre, even thhe early 850nm multimode fibre wa= s only 1 or 2dB /km...



--001485f9a72c98b6b8047e9d8114-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF074-8bf44b82ab8036d; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:06:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 1109838000118; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njamd-0001to-Da for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njamc-0001tf-Vw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:18 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjamZ-0002nF-Tv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:05:18 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgoFAEE6gktcGO2M/2dsb2JhbACNDQONc3O8BYRrBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,518,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="428581979" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([92.24.237.140]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2010 16:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <004401cab3d8$c7b6bc30$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:04:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9 Kcs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b82ab795a38 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most are struggling on 137 Kcs to radiate a decent signal never mind= 9Kcs I would prefer some sort of elevated antenna even at that frequency fo= r long haul. G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most are struggling on 137 Kcs to rad= iate a decent=20 signal never mind 9Kcs
I would prefer some sort of elevated= antenna even=20 at that frequency for long haul.
 
 
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01CAB3D8.C78BDBA0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.28]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF063-5ef84b84fdec35e; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:22:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3F43A380000AD; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEMb-0004my-5J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkEMa-0004mp-M9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:04 +0000 Received: from imr-mb01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkEMY-0002TO-Ce for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:21:04 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.194]) by imr-mb01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1OAKnkE029376 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:20:49 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.68] (unknown [92.9.230.245]) by mtaout-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 4DD89E000090 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:20:48 -0500 (EST) From: g4gvw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <001401cab497$85c1ea60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <9afca2641002230838u68f9a31bw9b414fd655f2af13@mail.gmail.com> <004a01cab4a8$21dbf890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <02db01cab4aa$e9580420$0217aac0@desktop> <1266950579.4464.30.camel@pat-compaq-evo> <030501cab4be$bab217a0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:20:38 +0000 Message-Id: <1267006838.5004.10.camel@pat-compaq-evo> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c24b84fd80705c X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: RE: LF: DATA Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411c4b84fdeb13d7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Not that we should prolong this thread, Jim, but I have failed to consider the tax implications. Quite obviously, should your experiment prove so successful that it promoted a boom in foil sales, then our darling chancellor aided by the men in brown boots would juggle the balls on their abacus and after a straw poll impose yet another tax. Hmmm, time to bring back the house martin. LOL. 73 On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 19:30 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > Indeed! Only this afternoon after intercepting my post on the Echelon system > I received a call from the chief bully at No. 10 to advise me that such an > action could result in a modulation of global warming and so compromise > their plans for justification of future tax hikes in the name of the > environment. > > I was advised to go for a walk alone in the woods and take some paracetamol > and a blunt knife with me, just on the off chance that my regrets could make > me suicidal. > > Needless to say I declined the offer....got to go, there's some people at > the d > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of g4gvw > Sent: 23 February 2010 18:43 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: RE: LF: DATA > > James, > > I am slightly concerned that your vast expanse of aluminium foil will be > reflecting sufficient sunlight as to require significant recalculation > of the factors affecting global warming! > > > > On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 17:09 +0000, James Cowburn wrote: > > I shall be there, boots blacked and at the ready!! > > > > > > > > Buy shares in Alcan foil as I will be cornering the world market in > > order to turn my garden into a huge capacitor! The XYL will have a > > seizure and the cats wont be happy either! > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > From:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton > > Sent: 23 February 2010 16:49 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > > > > > Roger > > > > > > Like the man said the 9 Kcs craze is but the latest Appliance Operator > > TOY, however when you fire up the TOY I will look out for you, Jim > > might join in. > > > > > > > > > > > > mal/g3kev > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Roger Lapthorn > > > > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:38 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: LF: DATA > > > > > > > > > > > > Mal, > > > > G7NKS has largely echoed my views on your email. > > > > Yes, HF conditions have been getting better. VK9 was worked on > > 10m from the UK today (on CW and not by me). I was able to > > decode the 1W WSPR signals on 10m from V53ARC (running just > > 1W) this morning and from FR1GZ (10W) yesterday. WSPR is > > hugely helpful in propagation testing on the higher HF bands > > and does not need much power. There is lots of WSPR activity > > on HF, although more on 10m would be useful to help seek out > > fleeting openings. PSK31 is widely used of course. > > > > Regarding <9kHz, clearly it is very unlikely any great > > distances will be spanned, but there is much that can be > > learned from such experiments. I have experimented with this > > in the past and hope to do so again soon, but using the best > > weak signal techniques this time. > > > > Your remarks about 500kHz "appliance operators" are not > > helpful. However, it's a free country and you're entitled to > > express your views, even if we choose to differ. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 23 February 2010 14:50, mal hamilton > > wrote: > > > > Generally band condx vy good at present from LF to HF as far > > as 24 Mcs. Modes mostly CW and SSB world wide, some strong USA > > stns. > > > > > > What is noticeable is the lack of Amtor, Pactor and packet > > transmissions but RTTY seems to have survived over the years. > > > > > > Observations indicate that data mode acty does not last long, > > the novelty wares off, whereas the traditional modes CW, SSB > > and RTTY are still going strong. > > > > > > Some will argue that cw and rtty are data but I am referring > > to the fly by night data modes Amtor, pactor, packet and all > > the JT, wspr etc, tuning across the bands today I did not hear > > any of these modes. > > > > > > Obviously the majority of ham operators are not interested. It > > would appear MF attracts the Appliance Operator, and the > > 8.7739872 Kcs Dreamers!! > > > > > > If you fancy your chances on VLF below 9 Kcs I will listen > > out. I have a suitable RX and antenna. > > > > > > Your observations ? > > > > > > > > > > > > de G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > -- 73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw qth nr felixstowe uk (east coast, county of suffolk) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-da01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA012-86114b86fd7715f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:45:11 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 042BF3800008F; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:45:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkmQw-00006b-5P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkmQv-00006S-KT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:49 +0000 Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.96]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkmQs-0000eE-UF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:43:49 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.69]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1PMhY7a027967 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:43:34 -0500 Received: from White (g229121046.adsl.alicedsl.de [92.229.121.46]) by mtaout-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (WebSuites/MUA Thirdparty client Interface) with ESMTPA id 3086EE0000E5 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:43:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B18@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <70718ADC6A924E2F9BA6C5F1294DAD14@JimPC> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:43:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29454b86fd137341 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.236 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4b86fd756eab X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear LF, sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise backgro= und at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my= regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m,= calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it= would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram wit= h moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impuls= ive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m refere= nced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). This seems lower than most of the figures quoted recently, including= Jim's measurement. There may have been some issues with my calibratio= n, but I don't think my figure would have been off by tens of dBs. Any= way I will try to repeat the measurement this weekend. Part of the dis= crepancy could be that published figures inevitably include the energy= of the distict spherics, which may well contribute the dominant part= of the average noise power. Empiricaly I found that some noise limiti= ng or blanking was essential to maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth rece= ption. Based on this figure for noise, a first calculation for Stefan's 100= m kite antenna predicted a reception range well over 200 km,. using= QRSS-30 at 21 mHz! So the dreamers may be in for a nice sunday surpri= se... Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: James Moritz=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:50 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Dear LF Group, As a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig= gen=20 into my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reve= rse"=20 arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum Lab= to=20 monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise bandwi= dth).=20 I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M" copy= =20 trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equivalen= t=20 field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say what th= e SNR=20 is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is probably= not a=20 million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field strength= about=20 25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this evening= is=20 particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Andy Talbot" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9 Dreamers > To get the V/m value from this, first calculate the effective area= of a=20 > 9kHz > isotropic antenna : > At 9kHz, lambda =3D 33333m, G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2, G =3D 1, so= A =3D > 88*10^6 m^2 > > 1mW of noise per Hz bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise= =20 > density > Nd =3D is 1.1E-11 W/m^2 > Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQRT(Nd. 377) > =3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth, or 65uV/ (ROOT Hz) > ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear LF,
 
sometime back in 2000 I attempted to= measure the=20 daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theori= e.html).=20 I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effecti= ve height=20 is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop,=20 and assuming that it would depend only little on= =20 frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and= placing=20 the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived= at=20 a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equ= ivalent to=20 142 dB kTo).
 
This seems lower than most of the fig= ures quoted=20 recently, including Jim's measurement. There may have been some issues= with my=20 calibration, but I don't think my figure would have been off by= tens of=20 dBs. Anyway I will try to repeat the measurement this weekend. Part of the discrepancy could be th= at published figures=20 inevitably include the energy of the distict spherics, which= may well=20 contribute the dominant part of the average noise power. Empiricaly&nb= sp;I found=20 that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to maximi= ze SNR for=20 narrow bandwidth reception.
 
Based on this figure for noise, = a first=20 calculation for Stefan's 100 m kite antenna predicted a reception= range=20 well over 200 km,. using QRSS-30 at 21 mHz! So the dreamers&= nbsp;may=20 be in for a nice sunday surprise...
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:50 PM
Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level
=
Dear LF Group,

As=20 a quick experiment to estimate noise level at 9kHz, I coupled a sig ge= n
into=20 my broadband RX loop antenna using a "current transformer in reverse"= =20
arrangement to induce a known EMF into the loop. I used Spectrum= Lab to=20
monitor the RX output, set up for QRSS3 reception (0.46Hz noise ba= ndwidth).=20
I reduced the signal level to give what I imagine would be an "M"= copy=20
trace, and from the induced EMF and loop area worked out the equiv= alent=20
field strength - this was 35uV/m. It is a bit difficult to say wha= t the SNR=20
is, due to the constantly varying impulsive noise, but 6dB is prob= ably not a=20
million miles from the mark, which would imply a noise field stren= gth about=20
25uV/m per sqrtHz. I don't know if the noise level on VLF this eve= ning is=20
particularly high or low. The Alpha beacons are clearly audible=20 here.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




----= - Original=20 Message -----
From: "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org>
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: LF: AW: 9=20 Dreamers


> To get the V/m value from this, first calcula= te the=20 effective area of a
> 9kHz
> isotropic antenna :
>= At 9kHz,=20 lambda =3D 33333m,   G =3D 4.pi.A/lambda^2,   G = =3D 1,  =20 so  A =3D
> 88*10^6  m^2
>
> 1mW of noise= per Hz=20 bandwidth, received in this aperture means noise
> density
&= gt; Nd =3D=20 is  1.1E-11 W/m^2
> Field strength E volts/metre, =3D=3D SQ= RT(Nd.=20 377)
> =3D 65uV/m in 1 Hz bandwidth,    or 65uV/= (ROOT=20 Hz)
>


------=_NextPart_000_003D_01CAB674.553775C0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.93]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD073-8b8e4b805307389; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:24:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 43D8E380000A5; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:24:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwmz-0003HY-Uq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Niwmz-0003HP-JO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Niwmx-0001ax-0L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:23:01 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EE07B8047 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70E331E702 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:22:06 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:19:48 +0100 Thread-Topic: TF on 500kHz Thread-Index: AQHKsnLANzO8Gj+UE0W9xiryMFL/zw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: TF on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b24b8053064fd8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear all, I just received following information from TF2JB: Yesterday, February 19, 2010 The Post and Telecom Administration in Icelan= d granted a temporary experimental access to the 600 meter band in Iceland= . The permit is valid until December 31, 2010.=20 Frequency span: 493-510 kHz. Access is granted on secondary basis. CW only= . Power limit is 100 W. Licensees need to apply to the PTA for a special license. The experimental= license is open to both =93N=94 and =93G=94 license classes. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.220]) by air-db10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB103-864c4b693f9cb7; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:19:24 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3F845380001ED; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcbN7-0001zx-Ji for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcbN7-0001zo-1m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcbN5-0005hQ-SU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:18:05 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.3]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203091757.VVPC10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:17:57 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcbMz-0005Wd-Dj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:17:57 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:17:56 -0000 Message-ID: <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqkqqE87o5tdBlzRqq0ViMIqgkZDgABPbcg X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MKpu1BcztJtq89k3sgwA:9 a=p8T0Gi0TwNHPtLGaL-kA:7 a=pF4BK828eBjfRlUibzd_Mi89KCUA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dc4b693f9b49bc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Rik/LF That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and others in D/F. Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better support away from trees! Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the local ground wave signals collapse Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more so than the output at the tx end My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to 2000km or so. If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about 20mW. At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with him, receiving a 559 report. Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.133]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD014-8b774b6f2c7582; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:11:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 03A96380001C0; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:11:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEOK-00051l-72 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEOJ-00051c-QQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEOH-0004AV-Hj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:10:03 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4311647bwz.29 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=m+I8BAcH/NSp8Ph9KvdTS88uJjDIujMMeqpMluNFqfw=; b=F0NSx7CniXBAvFyPmR58qnWzenvpWzCJMFtAw7m+bt308QyIn2PQhcBc2E5jwJlQZc E55PSKdT9kZESClN9CVm+wimgs2j6LXMMNKkKOiNT5zHI9w+uG02PHL0a2LF2er0cE64 Aj4BO1ffCMBQ3js58rTlN5c/6AAhQlnDhnQOE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=xSDLxdERgLLkWPR3N3jjcEMIXecP7nk+X+A0OjaEOdWhZ9AUoqAP84ahro4cYGoZGx DUJlfRIKEIiX5XS3HxlCIV9aCCIJL1EXcKL2HjHNdscTgLNkaETJHt6uf4q6u4T+F8EQ jWVG9/JBc/5GSSc2ghx26f4c2YeALQDQLMBQc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.151.216 with SMTP id d24mr417027bkw.1.1265576994428; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> References: <2886BF14DABA43E8A71B9BAD535C5847@JimPC> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:09:54 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40854b6f2c73358f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes. Odd that. Increased spectrogram noise reading when it ought to be filtered out I suspect the spectrogram is not a simple power level indication. SpecJT appears to be more of a CFAR indication and the WSPR one may be not-dissimilar in concept. Andy www.g4jnt.com > Doing this also produces a lot of false decodes - the spectrogram display > in WSPR shows a couple of broad, bright, noise-like bands where the > passband-stopband transitions of the audio filter occur, with assorted > spectral lines that are probably low-level noise from one PC or another. I > have often noticed the number of false decodes goes up when there are > narrow- --0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes.
Odd that.
Increased spectrogram noise reading when it ought to be filtered out<= /div>
=A0
I suspect the spectrogram is not a simple=A0power level indication.= =A0=A0 SpecJT appears to be more of a CFAR indication and the WSPR one may= be not-dissimilar in concept.
Doing this also produces a lot= of false decodes - the spectrogram display in WSPR shows a couple of broa= d, bright, noise-like bands where the passband-stopband transitions of the= audio filter occur, with assorted spectral lines that are probably low-le= vel noise from one PC or another. I have often noticed the number of false= decodes goes up when there are narrow-
--0015175dd9cc305911047f091b16-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.140]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF012-5ee34b6f303e2c; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:27:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 668CF38000188; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEeK-0005Qa-Ng for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEeK-0005QQ-Cv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from mta31.charter.net ([216.33.127.82]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEeI-0004LY-Ax for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:26:36 +0000 Received: from imp11 ([10.20.200.11]) by mta31.charter.net (InterMail vM.7.09.02.04 201-2219-117-106-20090629) with ESMTP id <20100207212624.XZYT1847.mta31.charter.net@imp11>; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:26:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.2] ([66.189.74.84]) by imp11 with smtp.charter.net id f9SQ1d00J1p78xe059SQdv; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:26:24 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=dP3sN3LoM_3TeetiCdIA:9 a=0dezn4KVOE74HY57Jl_bwgntNYMA:4 Message-ID: <4B6F3092.6070506@charter.net> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:28:50 -0500 From: John Andrews User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, & UK) and MedFer bands" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: WD2XES WSPR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608c4b6f303d673b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) WD2XES is running in WSPR mode on 137.450 kHz (dial frequency 136.000 USB) until 0330 UTC. The "30 dBm" refers to 1 watt ERP. Reports are welcome. John, W1TAG/WD2XES FN42ch From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.77]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB081-85f44b8398722e5; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:57:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0E0C03800009B; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:57:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqZ7-0008DI-Oy for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjqZ7-0008D9-Ds for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from 113-mo2-8.acn.waw.pl ([62.121.95.113] helo=paranoid.lipkowski.org) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjqZ5-0000rR-Nh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:56:25 +0000 Received: from paranoid.lipkowski.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id o1N8v5H5009753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:06 +0100 Received: from localhost (sq5bpf@localhost) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.6/Submit) with ESMTP id o1N8v5xl009750 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:05 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: paranoid.lipkowski.org: sq5bpf owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:57:05 +0100 (CET) From: Jacek Lipkowski To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> Message-ID: References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> ,<38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B06@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <6F4C6255E40344F2A67B9E18CE455F36@64683d74b6134b3> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score-sq5bpf: -2.601 () BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604d4b8398703221 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) If you are considering beaconing at 9kHz SpectrumLab has a nice "digomode terminal" that can be used as a beacon. the frequency can be whatever your sound card can generate (over 20kHz with a 48ks/s sound card), spectrum lab is also nice for reception. without modifications wspr and laserscatter use frequencies which are too low. jacek From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.85]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDB043-86464b67ed9d4; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:17:17 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 59B0F3800010D; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:17:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEru-0004XT-JX for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcEru-0004XK-7h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from psmtp09.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.23]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcErq-0005X3-Rp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:16:22 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp09.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX700549J30BE@psmtp09.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:16:13 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:16:09 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: XGJ 02-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40554b67ed9b6749 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA)" --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Warren,LF Capture XGJ,strong signal, best 73s henny cpm. Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: XGJ 02-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Warren,LF
Capture XGJ,strong signal,
best 73s
henny cpm.
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
XGJ 02-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_b1QXuGVfuk2IHNiv3+B/eA)-- --Boundary_(ID_EMS2LOuUwu/ZRz9rvI0dww) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="XGJ 02-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="XGJ 02-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABYA2gDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgIDAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIBAwUGBwQI/8QAGAEBAQEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAePWJPqxF9LEMy6NWWQsECss5S1NtRKe ikUQLaniHI0lXUmu6qPV56rBWWY9fp3fvHO/Kh9V8pzeVv2vJ2fPr95zkvzTHZPbXEl+j+fp y473s0vzAn1Xq1nz/PckOFz9Tcsl5Ydm6MfK0fVWmVwme862nJn+kMzL8pR2LJxwyzpL1zFP pTMnynivsH5V3MI6PuJDPE1TNQSwMtdTKTlZCNViwlSNENZXGjVrbklsJU21MLEqWRAFc2xD QukQzwv0N88fQ3K74Bx0AAAfHY6+rErYtEowrU25qzZXYEwTdSVEy4jKwJLCXVIXQil1FqjV 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MAILINDB043-86464b89114c17a; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D8CD8380000ED; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:34:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlLqI-0007aK-UU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlLqI-0007aB-IQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlLqF-0004Yt-IZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:32:22 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1RCWE7u010884 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:32:15 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00233 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:01 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:00 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:32:17 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60204b89114a7315 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town ;-) Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely shure QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on 9 kHz. There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. Main problem is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is reachable with some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one should avoid free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use 'protecting rings' on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use not too high antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed specially for high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m kite antenna used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly vertical, does it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT capacity 4.5 km was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. Now we see huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different sourses. What is the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower time to time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where 4.5 km experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Where spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the wave zone on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not too fast with distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where 'waveguide' propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX ANT voltage only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not the last experiment. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-de06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE063-5eb84b7183d623b; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:48:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 52862380001C3; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NesIg-0003oA-29 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NesIf-0003o1-Hr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:53 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NesIc-0002Np-Uv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:46:53 +0000 Received: from PCvanAlbert (a80-101-33-132.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.101.33.132]) by smtp-vbr5.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id o19Fkf8M008646 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:46:50 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from westberg@xs4all.nl) Message-ID: From: "Albert" To: References: <003401caa80b$62079090$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:46:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: DX on 600m Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b7183d4458b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 To all, This morning 04:00 UTC I had a nice CW contact (12 WPM) with WE2XGR/6 in FN12 the distance between us is 5975 km. Used frequencies 502.4 and 507.3 kHz. The time 04:00 UTC was chosen after watching Bob's WSPR beacon for a couple of nights. 73, Albert PA0A From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.78]) by air-md09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMD091-8b944b6f5495374; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:02:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 15BD438000050; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeH3c-0006br-SF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeH3c-0006bi-Dy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeH3a-00059J-5f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:00:52 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Feb 2010 00:00:43 -0000 Received: from p5DC4357C.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO Clemens04) [93.196.53.124] by mail.gmx.net (mp004) with SMTP; 08 Feb 2010 01:00:43 +0100 X-Authenticated: #17214767 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+Jd+lkRj6JV9j+30RYUyuJAGEc/eStK0qUOdPlSG A5o0IemmRl7ebr Message-ID: <00a701caa851$c231ee70$0201a8c0@Clemens04> From: "Clemens Clemens" To: References: Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:00:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.56999999999999995,0.56999999999999995 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e4b6f5493491b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy, thanks for confirming that. 73 Clemens DL4RAJ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 7:20 PM Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported= by some stations=20 recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct link= using a range of Rx=20 bandwidths and input signal levels. The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz,= the reported S/N=20 increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in st= eps of 500Hz so=20 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to sho= w the effect. Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but th= e results can be=20 summarised as : ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want ar= tificially high SNR=20 reports ----------------------- 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see th= e full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2673 - Ausgabedatum: 02/0= 7/10 08:22:00 ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andy,
 
thanks for confirming that.
 
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy Talbot
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 20= 10 7:20=20 PM
Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests

To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of  S/= N reported=20 by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements= over a=20 direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.<= /DIV>
 
The results were dramatic.  With receive bandwidths= less than=20 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.   It was= only=20 possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with= the=20 SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect.
 
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf =20 but the results can be summarised as :
 
-------------   Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unl= ess you=20 want artificially high SNR reports  =20  -----------------------
 
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to= see the=20 full noise band is OK.


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft= - www.avg.de=20
Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2673 - Ausgabedatum:= 02/07/10=20 08:22:00
------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01CAA85A.22308A90-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.145]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC012-a8464b74531f3ca; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3E95C380004D6; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfeDB-0001A2-H0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfeDB-00019t-0f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:25 +0000 Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com ([209.85.217.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfeD8-0004Km-9X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:24 +0000 Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so1255233gxk.4 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CKRdOuHZx8NCf9gdy1Rv1RKu5Nh73bw/AfIWXx0R77c=; b=b7xHXNgyFhiljXQXZWuH1TB3vzVP1Ci9bGCeuMb7TOTafUJWVPlWXP2+Muo6EYADOA 9Te5BvV9gZev26KbD63ybs2NBzm/ceb+PiR3n4KpV+tFnK8NodNLEi1g91vZ24ic/DpI BmteXuNem0zBFqKktXmo/Oe1NXfYksagff8sY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=iWWZxcc6awVhlnu9+lTJb86P7BvMm6CWtQ9Q5fjzGGvlN5TNkQOwGpA1ZY8ky9Ya20 2d83svP2T7jX0oaY6LiogkbEpVTm2wrwobLRG7iwgO2ycNll1HlCSES0YqFrq/XmdH0/ wiYIffABCP6yKifbFufs9pZMWszuCy7JGb7F4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.20.33 with SMTP id 33mr503509agt.110.1265914574594; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> References: <9e6eddd01002110702u6f7c74eel1296a92bbf9405ce@mail.gmail.com> <271B228171C74444945F7FAF718CEC06@DennisPC> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:56:14 +0000 Message-ID: <9e6eddd01002111056v4ac7d7eftac518fb43bc30b0b@mail.gmail.com> From: Dominic Baines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Peter M0FMT DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: New NoV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m254.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40914b7453193922 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Thanks Dennis, RX signals in 2007/8 (?) were by ear and was using LF reflector to ask for xband qso. I was TX abt 3.535 80m. I thought the 500kHz stations were pretty loud (was 100mW ERP back then), and the band noise was very low. Easier than 160m and as I am a qrp op weak signals sort of go with the territory >60% of the time as using some crummy antenna /P so you listen a bit more? Got some WAV files of the stations I heard from those days and the xband qso somewhere... I think most were amongst my first 100 cw qso hihi. Although included on the NoV application doubt will use WSPR as not a beacon man although I think a qso mode sort of exists. The fun bit will probably be obtaining some field strength measurements (got a helper lined up) with a home brew meter in the 1-10 mile range from the station using a mobile phone.Might be interesting to see the difference as the wx changes. 72 Dom M1KTA On 11 February 2010 17:22, DENNIS EASTERLING wrote: > Hi Dominic > > Congrats. on getting your NOV for 600m. =A0 I understand that you have= been > receiving OK, if so you are halfway there as the sigs are so weak compar= ed > with noise. =A0 I use various loops and a PA0RDT mini-whip for receiving= . The > latter seems to be the best all round solution for me. =A0 My TX antenna= is a > 'T' type 10m vertical (though zig-zags a bit before entering the shack)= with > a 19.5m top (longest I can get in my garden). =A0 Using a =A0GW3EUP tx= running > just over 20w, I can qso Finbar in Derry Ireland, and have been reported= by > a German listener in Cuxhaven. > > 73 Dennis M0JXM > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dominic Baines" > > To: "rsgb lf group" > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 3:02 PM > Subject: LF: New NoV > > >> Hi all, >> >> I just RX my SRP/NoV for 501-504kHz. >> Hope to have my station up and running for TX as soon as possible. >> Thanks for all those who since 2008 have so far had a cross band qso >> perhaps we can manage a qso on 500kHz now. >> Will focus on CW initially. >> >> 72 >> >> Dom >> M1KTA >> > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-b5134b8913d533c; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:45:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AA560380000BA; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:45:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM1O-0007mi-5o for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlM1N-0007mZ-QW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:49 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlM1K-0004e6-Tz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:43:49 +0000 Received: (qmail 17003 invoked by uid 507); 27 Feb 2010 13:43:32 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 13:43:32 +0100 Message-ID: <201002271343370718.11AF488E@smtp2.numeo.fr> In-Reply-To: References: <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> <377207.23110.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:43:37 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b8913d345bf X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 History repeats itself. In the early days of radio, amateurs were allocat= ed "200m and down" with the comment that "they won't be able to get out of= their backyards with that". When it became clear that HF was useful for long distances, a similar phil= osophy seems to have been applied to VHF and upwards. And so on. 73, John F5VLF *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 27/02/2010 at 11:24 Rik Strobbe wrote: >Warren , Pete, > >when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave amateur >segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, one of the bi= g >telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that amateurs would transmi= t >there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one wouldn't be able to get >any further than the other end of the town. >It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as one big town= ;-) > >73, Rik ON7YD >________________________________ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.10]) by air-me10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME103-8bc74b6f04de5f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:22:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F346B3800035A; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBkZ-000385-9D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:51 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeBkY-00037w-LZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:50 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com ([209.85.218.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeBkW-0002YV-Cb for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:20:50 +0000 Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so4237022bwz.29 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:20:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Yf/L1qOnSNpIBD2P1uSm6dTV8L4232kxkpA/eVo8nrA=; b=aZpSHRXYLHeK1fovIK498rWYxUPi0dB/MdRVV9oEKCVJIiv2QkkjiW6IVuzvN1Zs3Q jiyGsCfV2lr4lhRbMwnuLrRjxh94EmynQcHAQRADwdR5mNYJ7lsw11gK+renF++3yvWK soAjB+ECyuPYltEdmyuOf6uwkbDB1GuyWq7lM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=pRDpJfOgAlTjfMmmQIMRYcu0BAft7Zco1wWELSeJ0H4zQ/o7pFbBAo0RgdIDNCxKF+ g17AIgemUz89lguD0VAPNSvF0/sF3X9uwY3u77zE4bBflpMadbfHF6/Sk/zIhgFytuXh iNHxyePfd7uL4/0GcxwILItRxwrQp5kIyWRDA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.34.135 with SMTP id l7mr3857401bkd.57.1265566842349; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:20:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:20:42 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: jfell@tesco.net DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: WSPR S/N Tests Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600a4b6f04dc4c18 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of S/N reported by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over a direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels. The results were dramatic. With receive bandwidths less than 300Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably. It was only possible to use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ but these were more than enough to show the effect. Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf but the results can be summarised as : ------------- Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you want artificially high SNR reports ----------------------- 300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the full noise band is OK. Andy www.g4jnt.com --000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To try to get to grips with the falsely high values of=A0 S/N reporte= d by some stations recently, I made a set of controlled measurements over= a direct link using a range of Rx bandwidths and input signal levels.
=A0
The results were dramatic.=A0 With=A0receive bandwidths less than 300= Hz, the reported S/N increased considerably.=A0=A0 It was only possible to= use bandwidths in steps of 500Hz so 100,150,200 etc with the SDR-IQ=A0but= these were more than enough to show the effect.
=A0
Full details can be found in www.g4jnt.com/WSPR_SNR_Test.pdf=A0 but the results can be= summarised as :
=A0
-------------=A0=A0 Don't use a bandwidth below 300Hz unless you= want artificially high SNR reports=A0=A0 =A0-----------------------
=A0
300Hz or anything higher that allows the decoding software to see the= full noise band is OK.
--000325559bba13eb1e047f06be5e-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.224]) by air-ma01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA011-b4ef4b87adce70; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:17:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3CCBC380000C8; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:17:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkyAw-0004Of-0D for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkyAv-0004OW-Ko for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:05 +0000 Received: from psmtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkyAt-0004HT-8u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:16:05 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYG007154MIYP@psmtp04.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:15:55 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:15:47 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <6767981B8A374230941D2D85449FBCBD@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 26-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55535 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40e04b87adcc0ee4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg)" --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi,All capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 26-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi,All
capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 26-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_3m2+Mr6WDic1MrrNbqQhIg)-- --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 26-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 26-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABKAq4DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMBBAUABgcI/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH5NCj9EjZrvZqj4hViGSCkpVlsJcFC Iz0gMGExZmo52CDsHVHitlt0xZInAW7MiWw5Q9TZCsS3BJuUQalymXZXSVME5OuUcphI0qs1 6aVuUFgWMGQRyjIYxK4WcvBwta70TmdMD57MiYXhLUMUNTIkmYS56WETW6JkjCR1THOsSepI MefF1bGymzXDNhcsDsVrWeifAsovUG5iNZFprmyYWZhQaeZzWonpWkrKwgvMGtVKyjnwd1nG i5iEBsiGNiOF6CQQFCAOU4E2Ma7VdFbSbNZ6M6UEXHVStRiorBWrF6ItkGxEjTsQByLx8WI2 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gxYBe183xMKWVb9TqYixveMAFSROrHL2Iru47DdORL7wYhQTWEFH24m+2auLIoTq/wCCgObi kMQKn25ywjEKoObtf8HFepw5NQEdMW/8m63es6MIwDXbLiL6xM3x0awDQu/PrKmms2JicMxi ot6uc8Oc5fThwZpLVzoxI4oxx7xqitz9+PCQOC48mNJKc4kEZnJjChRozjEo13hSVlavjKmx mcr1xNBdefea661iXlcOTHCAIXmOE4R85M9BUxMa85XvgFQKaL6z+HOWNNVMrbW4lFLvrnJj znFiebtn4795q5r/AAfowm8QSOurhx951POfszlzgxYBJwLGrVXfOcX1hFEenNhHXVxHVEql I4gKq3q5z5qhrZiLq7cuKEV95zc//9k= --Boundary_(ID_SI+Ujd0hwWJSQhZQqTaEtA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.141]) by air-md05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD051-8b844b859dffba; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:45:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 840C638000057; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:45:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkP27-0007f6-4U for 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X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:39:37 +0100 Thread-Topic: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq1c0Tdt+CPeRuXRIm/g9mG0LD/RAAJpee1 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408d4b859df739fd X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexander, > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm > 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss= (due to trees, house e.t.c.). I agree, that's why I had the quotes arround "Ground loss". > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the= losses. It will increse loss:-) I am not sure about that. Assuming the Q of both loading coils is identica= l and the TX is matched to the impedance "seen" at the loading coil I woul= d expect no difference in loss. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com] Verzonden: donderdag 25 februari 2010 1:02 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems > > if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of more= than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me. > "Ground loss" at my QTH: > 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm > 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.). > The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure) I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-) > Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the > losses. It will increse loss:-) > But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a > 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a more > convenient value. True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway. I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m (difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100 km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise). Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right. But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate resistance on lamda=3D30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=3D1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part)= . 1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-( Regards, Alexander/RA9MB --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Alexander,

> "Ground loss" at my QTH:
> 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm
> 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm
I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment' loss= (due to trees, house e.t.c.).

I agree, that's why I had the quotes arround "Ground loss".

 

> Regarding the par= allel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce the losses.
It will increse loss:-)

I am not sure about that. Assuming the Q of both loading coils is ident= ical and the TX is matched to the impedance "seen" at the loadin= g coil I would expect no difference in loss.

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T



________________________________________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Alexander S. Yurkov [fitec@omskcity.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 25 februari 2010 1:02
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems

>
> if using a short vertical monopole antenna at 9kHz a ground loss of= more than 1000 Ohm seems quite realistic to me.
> "Ground loss" at my QTH:
> 500kHz =3D 35 Ohm
> 137kHz =3D 130 Ohm

I don't think it is real ground stake loss. Mainly it is 'enviroment'
loss (due to trees, house e.t.c.).

> The frequency ratio is 3.65, the resistance ratio is 0.27 =3D 1/3.7 > If this 1/f behaviour goes down to 9kHz (not sure)

I don't think so. This behaviour should change. Good insulator (HF
frequency) or good conductor (VLF freqency) in enviroment does not yelds losses. Trees are good conductors on VLF. And they are good insulators on<= br> HF. MF is 'unfortunely case' :-)

> Regarding the parallel capacitor: you are right, it will not reduce= the
> losses.

It will increse loss:-)

> But it is much easier (and cheaper) to make a 3mH coil than a
> 30mH coil and it will also transform the large loss resistance to a= more
> convenient value.

True, true... But large coil will be much better anyway.

I heve perform very rough estimations. Seems real radiation (not
quasistatic near field) is posible on 9 kHz. Certanly with very small
radiated power. If TX is 1 kW (really) and antenna height is 30 m
(difficult, but reallly) and coil is abt 1 m in diameter then one can
achive about 0.1 mW radiation. This yelds about 1 uV/m in distanse of 100<= br> km. Seems to be enough for QRSS (not CW i think, very strong noise).
Calculations was 'in mind' so i am not sure they are right.

But anyway 30m high good top loaded antenna has about 1 mOhm radiate
resistance on lamda=3D30km (10 kHz). Then 1 A in ant yelds 1 mW ERP (and about 20 kvolts on ant if C=3D1 nF i.e. abt 200 m wire in horisontal part)= .
1 mW is not too low power:-) But one need 'clear' square for this without<= br> trees, houses e.t.c. Seems it is a main problem:-(


Regards,
Alexander/RA9MB

--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD4070ICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi12.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.170]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b86664734f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:00:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7E34B3800005B; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcMi-0002qs-2m for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkcMh-0002qj-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:47 +0000 Received: from lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.232]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkcMf-00041T-04 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:47 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx503.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1PBwiXr030405 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:44 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:43 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:58:43 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF test signals? Thread-Index: Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDDAACmjIw= References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.25.114826 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413" Subject: LF: VLF test signals? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55494 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039400cded44b86663d355b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz ra= nge? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitters= are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this= frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving?= There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for so= me tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwLAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAEgAAAFZMRiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbHM/ ABgGAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcCABkADAA6ACsABABxAQEggAMADgAAANoHAgAZAAwAOgArAAQAcQEBCYAB ACEAAAA5MDA2RkJDQjhERDkyQjQ0ODUwQUU4NzUxQ0I2QzAzNwBBBwEDkAYArAsAADgAAAADADYA AAAAAEAAOQAT5NPgEbbKAR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAACAUcAAQAAADIAAABjPURFO2E9IDtwPUhT VDtsPUZJTEUtU0VSVkVSLUgtMTAwMjI1MTE1ODQzWi0xMTEyAAAAHgBJAAEAAAAJAAAAQVc6IDlr SHoAAAAAQABOALcIj5QNtsoBHgBaAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3No ZWVwLm9yZwAAAgFbAAEAAABjAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9s Zl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVwLm9yZwBTTVRQAG93bmVyLXJzZ2JfbGZfZ3JvdXBAYmxhY2tzaGVl cC5vcmcAAAIBXAABAAAAKAAAAFNNVFA6T1dORVItUlNHQl9MRl9HUk9VUEBCTEFDS1NIRUVQLk9S RwAeAF0AAQAAAA8AAABTdGVmYW4gU2No5GZlcgAAAgFeAAEAAABJAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A 3QEPVAIAAAAAU3RlZmFuIFNjaORmZXIAU01UUABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRl AAAAAAIBXwABAAAAIgAAAFNNVFA6U0NIQUVGRVJASFNULlRVLURBUk1TVEFEVC5ERQAAAB4AZgAB AAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgBnAAEAAAAjAAAAb3duZXItcnNnYl9sZl9ncm91cEBibGFja3NoZWVw Lm9yZwAAHgBoAAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAGkAAQAAAB0AAABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFy bXN0YWR0LmRlAAAAAB4AcAABAAAAEgAAAFZMRiB0ZXN0IHNpZ25hbHM/AAAAAgFxAAEAAAAgAAAA Acq2AY2LNdY0xqViSjuJ8N5g6GET0QADAcDDAACmjIweAHQAAQAAAB0AAAByc2diX2xmX2dyb3Vw QGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAAAAB4AGgwBAAAADwAAAFN0ZWZhbiBTY2jkZmVyAAAeAB0OAQAAABIA AABWTEYgdGVzdCBzaWduYWxzPwAAAAIBCRABAAAA6wMAAOcDAABbCAAATFpGdcbDRa0DAAoAcmNw ZzEyNYIyA0NodG1sMQMwPwEDAfcKgAKkA+MCAGNowQrAc2V0MCAHEwKA/xADAFAEVghVB7IR1Q5R AwHdENcyBgAGwxHVMwRGENlvEusR4wjvCfc7GM8OMDU7EdIMYGMAUAsJAWQzNpMRYAulNCAQAipc DrIDAZAOEDkgPEhUTUBMIGRpcj0eMHI8Pn0d8wAhAzAfQWRv5wDgH0EKsVxxGLAfQRDwbwMwH6UR YB2rMx2AHqBF3EFEH3AdrArjICOvJL8FDhA2DvA8TUVUQQggbmEHgD1HRU6ARVJBVE9SIAWgYwIw CfB0PSIF4B6zOOAuMDAuNxzgKeAnIFA0OTAiI500J0EvXyNfHlAU8CX/HlA1EWA8cEJPRFkjnRzx LV9nRDk2HpBESVYe9iAIaWQ9MjBPV0FSAmULUHlUZXh0Nvg4ODYfeQAAIKUhQyEBnyGZHckqYDOa IbdXaA3geyGABaBtB4AhYAcxHas4wR2AJm5ic3ACgB+YDCdhAUAht1ZMRiBzH1AAcW1pAkAEkAQg YzMDkQDQdHUHQDLgIGKEZSAY0GNlaXYJgBMyIAOgdGg94DEwawxIej3wAHBnZT8g3lQ+0BjQMiAE IG0bgCGAjmwEACjgPnd3ZWI9wO51BUA+kgdzdz/jPsERMGc8LArAPeBzaEHhIGB37z0hPZA+sUAy YT2zB0AY0LxhZD2wBvA+cEDQdQEgui44AW9AIj4EC4BnPoSTQDEDUGVxClBuYz2w2RjQZ2kCID0w bj5wPQJ7KOBFIXVEEUjJSeI+wlO+TiiQPtFAMQDQOCBlSAKfP7ZEM0dgA4E9sE9NQoLxR2B3YXQh cT7CO/IRML89UAWxSeIRAD5QJ7BvRVH7SCEgYG5BcTyQIYA8AUuk10AxCcAIYHBHIFAEkBEA/nAE IDyQU7IDkTIwRkA8IM9HYD1BPkBPIGUvBGBU9P0+sm1IwAWxThAHgEpRQND8cyxUkguABQBGQEMy PtEcUlg8wgEAAIF0eS5/HckBwB+HCqIfhwpxHaww/SMhLzFxH3layB2cL+8w/98fWzQ/NU82Xzdp TUWwPdH7U8JSsW8EcFSSOHEKsU3y91ahWEA98HAAIFOhPqJPIPtJZUcgQkHiUbFFITxAPsH/BcBF 4lTiRfEFQD7CPDsDUccCMFDhB+A7LSlZL1o//1tPXF9db15/X49gn2GvYr//Y89k3zkfOi87Om1f bm9vf/9wj3Gfcq9zv3TPdd9273f/NXkPUyjgZgBwgHBLN/xGQ3z/fg9/H4AvgT8t2e44K8Euvy0B NyvCHsEfcAJ9kqAAHgA1EAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4 MkExQjFCQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAB4A ORABAAAAuAAAADwwMDFjMDFjYWI1NzUkNmJiYjA0NjAkMDQwMWE4YzBAeHBoZDk3eGdxMjdueWY+ IDwyMDEwMDIyNTA5NDg0Ni5FQTg1NTMxRTcwMkBzbXRwczAxLmt1bGV1dmVuLmJlPiA8MzhBNTFC NzRCODg0RDc0MDgzRDc5NTBBRDBERDg1RTgyQTFCMTlARmlsZS1TZXJ2ZXItSFNULmhzdC5lLXRl Y2huaWsudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlPgAeAEcQAQAAAA8AAABtZXNzYWdlL3JmYzgyMgAACwDyEAEA AAAfAPMQAQAAADAAAABWAEwARgAgAHQAZQBzAHQAIABzAGkAZwBuAGEAbABzACUAMwBGAC4ARQBN AEwAAAALAPYQAAAAAEAABzC49bsuELbKAUAACDDFqNjgEbbKAQMA3j+vbwAAAwDxPwcEAAAeAPg/ AQAAAA8AAABTdGVmYW4gU2No5GZlcgAAAgH5PwEAAABcAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIB AAAAAAAAAC9PPUhTVC9PVT1FUlNURSBBRE1JTklTVFJBVElWRSBHUlVQUEUvQ049UkVDSVBJRU5U Uy9DTj1TQ0hBRUZFUgAeAPo/AQAAABUAAABTeXN0ZW0gQWRtaW5pc3RyYXRvcgAAAAACAfs/AQAA AB4AAAAAAAAA3KdAyMBCEBq0uQgAKy/hggEAAAAAAAAALgAAAAMA/T/kBAAAAwAZQAAAAAADABpA AAAAAAMAHUAAAAAAAwAeQAAAAAAeADBAAQAAAAkAAABTQ0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADFAAQAAAAkAAABT Q0hBRUZFUgAAAAAeADJAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3Jn AAAeADNAAQAAAB0AAABzY2hhZWZlckBoc3QudHUtZGFybXN0YWR0LmRlAAAAAB4AOEABAAAACQAA AFNDSEFFRkVSAAAAAB4AOUABAAAAAgAAAC4AAAADAHZA/////wsAKQAAAAAACwAjAAAAAAADAAYQ ofHiOQMABxD0AQAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFdISUNIQ09NTUVSQ0lBTFZM RlRSQU5TTUlUVEVSU0NBTkFDVFVBTExZQkVSRUNFSVZFRElOVEhFMTBLSFpSQU5HRT9USEVSRUlT TVVDSExJU1RFRElOVEhFV0VCQlVUSU5USU0AAAAAAgF/AAEAAABXAAAAPDM4QTUxQjc0Qjg4NEQ3 NDA4M0Q3OTUwQUQwREQ4NUU4MkExQjFCQEZpbGUtU2VydmVyLUhTVC5oc3QuZS10ZWNobmlrLnR1 LWRhcm1zdGFkdC5kZT4AAO4u ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB611.E0D3E413-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.19]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6ed6723c5; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:04:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 55486380001A6; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:04:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne8et-0002h4-30 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne8es-0002gv-OB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:46 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s37.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne8eq-0001ZH-JM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:02:46 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W13 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s37.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:02:38 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [70.241.49.5] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:02:38 -0900 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 15:02:38.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[9691AD00:01CAA806] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_" Subject: LF: V01NA X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60134b6ed6707244 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_" --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe. =20 Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma=20 PA0RDT R75 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe.
 
Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma
PA0RDT R75

Your E-mail and More On-the-= Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D --_3287784c-353a-4fb7-a21f-42d2c55f0d9d_-- --_3c3a69c2-f131-4a1f-9910-2d561d903621_ Content-Type: image/pjpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="na.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABmAbQDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.84]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC014-a8ce4b86821c4f; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 863E338000106; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkeDb-0004Is-3N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkeDa-0004Ij-MP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:30 +0000 Received: from smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.38]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkeDY-0005Cx-3I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:30 +0000 Received: from pc1 (ndb.demon.nl [82.161.81.65]) by smtp-vbr18.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o1PDvEwW098920 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:57:27 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from roelof@ndb.demon.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:57:02 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Roelof Bakker" MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1A@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.63 (Win32) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60544b86821b49c9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Andy, The equivelent length is 30 cm, representing about 2-3 pF. The buffer amp is using a J310 with a 1.5 M gate resistor. Using bootstrap techniques, one can achieve a very low input capacitance. However this results in even more signal and noise output, especially at VLF. So it is not used here. 73, Roelof From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.161]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD014-86a94b82f7172f5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:28:55 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6425C38000086; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:28:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njfor-0004lV-BF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:57 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njfor-0004lM-0u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:57 +0000 Received: from smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net ([212.54.42.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfop-0005Xz-B2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:56 +0000 Received: from [212.54.42.139] (helo=smtp8.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfoo-00055q-Jd for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 +0100 Received: from 5ed0272c.cable.ziggo.nl ([94.208.39.44] helo=[192.168.0.103]) by smtp8.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Njfoo-0007AL-39 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 +0100 Message-ID: <4B82F6D9.4080509@casema.nl> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:53 +0100 From: Willem de Roode User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1Njfoo-0007AL-39 X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=-3.899, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, CM_META_TB_NOARR 0.50) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: wdr@casema.nl X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: 502.400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdecb4b82f7161671 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 2122 -25 -1.1 0.503893 0 G7NKS IO92 17 73s willem pa3ego From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA033-863b4b868af93ab; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:36:41 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 61443380079DA; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkeob-0004ee-8S for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:45 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkeoa-0004eV-Qk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:44 +0000 Received: from thsmsgxrt11p.thalesgroup.com ([192.54.144.134]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkeoX-0005Yw-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:35:44 +0000 Received: from thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (unknown [10.33.231.5]) by thsmsgxrt11p.thalesgroup.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F70D489070 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales (10.33.231.33) by thsmsgirt21p.corp.thales (8.5.103) id 4B0E9ABB00BB5778 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Received: from (unknown [10.33.231.1]) by thsmsgiav13p.corp.thales with smtp id 1d61_a1b0_05e30bf2_221b_11df_a50f_0013725f4d82; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Received: from nodalthc2.clb.tcfr.thales (unknown [10.33.8.66]) by thsmsgirt11p.corp.thales (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32DEF59802F for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: by nodalthc2.clb.tcfr.thales with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 Message-ID: From: Jean-Louis.RAULT@fr.thalesgroup.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:35:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: RE: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4b868af703f5 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephan =20 The two lowest frequencies in use are presently: =20 - 11.904 kHz (RSDN-20 network, a russian navigation VLF system with transmitters located in Novosibirsk, Krasnodar, etc) =20 - 82 Hz (ZEVS system, an ELF transmitter located on the Kola peninsula and dedicated to strategic transmissions with russian nuclear submarines ) =20 I receive both stations here near Paris with an E-field receiver consistin= g of a home-brew receiver fitted with a FET/BJT front end and a 1m long cylinder vertical antenna =20 Regards =20 Jean-Louis F6AGR _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transmitte= rs are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done with= LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will rathe= r be active at the transmitters front now ;-) =20 Stefan/DK7FC ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stephan
 
The two lowest frequencies in use are=20 presently:
 
- 11.904 kHz (RSDN-20 network, a russian= navigation VLF=20 system with transmitters located in Novosibirsk, Krasnodar,=20 etc)
 
- 82 Hz (ZEVS system, an ELF transmi= tter located on=20 the Kola peninsula and dedicated to strategic transmissions with russian= nuclear=20 submarines )
 
I receive both stations here near Paris= with an E-field=20 receiver consisting of a home-brew receiver fitted with a FET/BJT fro= nt end=20 and a 1m long cylinder vertical antenna
 
Regards
 
Jean-Louis F6AGR

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep= .org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Stefan= =20 Sch=E4fer
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:59 PM
To:= =20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: VLF test=20 signals?

Which commercial VLF transmi= tters can=20 actually be received in the 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web= but=20 in times where these transmitters are shut down all this may be already= old=20 stuff. Who is receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequ= ency=20 and the SNR he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sec= tor=20 and have nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to= =20 activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density.
Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region.= But i=20 will rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-)
 
Stefan/DK7FC
------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB627.C7D3115E-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.85]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF062-8bee4b87d11c2da; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:48:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14D43380000E1; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl0Wz-0005Sm-52 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl0Wy-0005Sd-OG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:00 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl0Ww-0005bC-1R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:47:00 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 690171C0008F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 451D11C00092 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.57.19]) by mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id CBDE91C0008F for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:46:48 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100226134648835.CBDE91C0008F@mwinf3517.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <61C255CA083040EDA5A011C0B0572524@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <9afca2641002221442s72f18373t26847ca0487ac2b1@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002230232k3af949e6kcd2fe2a53b11d822@mail.gmail.com> <9afca2641002250919y7bdb25ebq8b913bb7d210e488@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002251331m10d45acfo2284f6cfe89f5607@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:46:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100226-0, 26/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60554b87d11a3c06 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Warren , If you think this is bad, you should take a look at the 'ROS' discussion's in the yahoo digital data group .. SS paranoia has taken hold ! G .. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? > > Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not > extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for > nothing.... > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski > wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: >> >>> People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM >>> received >>> today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. >> >> [...] >>> >>> They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for >>> frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required >>> as >>> there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT >>> Act >>> 2006. [...] >> >> there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, >> they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one >> continent >> can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the >> radio >> authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field >> strengths >> (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority >> and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is >> usually >> 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) >> >> sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to >> ask >> at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you >> will >> need a license for that" clause. >> >> if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential >> electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or >> any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you >> would probably get an entirely different answer :) >> >> VY 73 >> >> Jacek / SQ5BPF >> >> ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.139]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE043-5eb04b6dd90c1a4; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:03:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AAAFF38000102; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndrme-0006GN-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndrme-0006GE-Eq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([199.185.220.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndrmb-0006pM-GD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:40 +0000 Received: from edtnaa03.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edtnes25.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100206210134.XGGN3729.priv-edtnes25.telusplanet.net@edtnaa03.telusplanet.net> for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:01:34 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edtnaa03.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 77F5B2E26BE2B413 for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:01:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B6DD8AE.10708@telus.net> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:01:34 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: LF: Canada LEGAL on 2200m. Its open season boys! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608b4b6dd90a599a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) The following comments where provided by VE3IQ from RAC HQ. 73 Scott VE7TIL -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: 2200m and beyond... Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:30:51 -0500 From: James G. Dean Reply-To: jgdean@sympatico.ca To: Scott Tilley References: <4B6D2572.1020902@telus.net> Hi Scott: Good to hear from you. You are right, with children the priorities do have to shift. Enjoy him while you can; they seem to grow up too quickly. Our oldest grandchild just turned 20 and it seems like anohter era is passing us old folks by. Yes, we can now use 2200 metres. In December 2009, Industry Canada promulgated the revised Canadian Table of Frequency Allocations, which embodies the changes resulting from WRC-2007. It includes the Amateur service as a Secondary service in the band 135.7 - 137.8 kHz, subject to Footnote 5.67A. The footnote says: "Stations in the amateur service using frequencies in the band 135.7-137.8 kHz shall not exceed a maximum radiated power of 1 W (e.i.r.p.) and shall not cause harmful interference to stations of the radionavigation service operating in countries listed in No. 5.67. (WRC-07)". A copy of the Table is attached. It took time and effort, but we got there. I checked with IC and they advised that with the promulgation of the revised table, it is in force. The appropriate schedules in RBR-4 will be revised in due course. We will get a notice drafted up for the May/June issue of TCA. So, go ahead and use the band. Would be interested to hear what luck you have. I advised Joe of this a day or two ago, so I guess he has gotten active. Great to see. 73, Jim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-ma07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA074-b52f4b865c7088; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:18:08 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B096A380000DA; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:18:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbhy-00023p-9A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:42 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkbhx-00023g-H5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:41 +0000 Received: from smtp829.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.13.164]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkbhv-0003Ss-J9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:41 +0000 Received: (qmail 38770 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=qyvZObmnP3mEv+CN1JB0OZgjz7FDLhLCCSS+VIA/cjYbAAguVgDPXxtUon3+0cHDbNVhFaLdupo9gBzM4VE7Dr7Ex7rlXzN3wmLKJeK1rI1wctCErSXxsFDZALqTai1P4/yc6eJhNt78k5cn3noY/azcEHg7Bli7Hl57Ct2NUlE= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267096593; bh=QAxzBilUcwPl6epBiF6pBXE4hzt3U0smhBftZlXl43s=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE; b=V+GmbDXjGNTkamaApn3wXCHk/Jku1cABMVUna2zRpqVF2jJGZH+d7O7zo/6/ej48xJ+o+7fXvA+nz9pWKnQSj3TSSmmA4adKtUzt4OJuU28T8QwxMFdQltL1Pmga3iFrWFDDUDYFsGJFxQwSFudfPxDomHgAk4BIH4kuCS1qIUg= Received: from IBM7FFA209F07C (c.ashby435@86.169.135.218 with login) by smtp829.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: .u8e2g.swBByWKjbpA3lR6Fw.2ZEQrJJpVsTSrpXLCffsPaCEMY- X-YMail-OSG: PpLXYJkVM1nP_Cldbxs4G16NBpzWjQjqljjka1m4uBLy4jc1yzZfCYNE9zoIa.3QW2KMImqtlKhmQviaumd63MXvdLJ6dSgdeNl3YrHbufmJHQJmVID7oLkZfY_OI7nOy8fQ9zwStb2PKPV7qxOX156Wo47EpkmKkGm7xzulWYZ7I8P11Qp.NQMeQW8ji0ti42u0vgnU91TiPe9Cj.fyYeAXEHbAaU1x3E4mv.O8XuoKtS1viQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <72058C74D1E84593AE608BA4ED0E2297@IBM7FFA209F07C> From: "Chris" To: References: <818138.8525.qm@web28102.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:16:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d221.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b865c6c7118 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wire into your sound card'. Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: M0FMT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Ken. Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card mic so= cket and install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT application. You= then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the ability to detect very= very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then record the result= in real time spectrum allowing it to be processed by others.=20 This type of set up is used by many people to copy SAQ on 17.2= kc/s. It is the method we are using here for some simple tests on 7.= 8125kc/s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.=20 You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on this= exercise I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that the we= ather is getting better I will be able to get out working on the anten= na. Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up abt 12/13m= and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of how to load the= se antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW the coil ab= out 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it be getting= very very hot and probably fail and need over 2 km of wire. Totally= impractical! Some ideas have been kicked around on the is reflector= and off list there may be something I can try. 73 es GL petefmt --- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ken wrote: From: Ken Subject: LF: RE: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 10:05 Hi Jim. I think I could knock up a quick 9kHz RX here in Luton over= the weekend if that would help. I have been following this thread with inte= rest, could you put up some diagrams etc of your parallel capacitor and othe= r antenna configurations and formulae. 73. Ken M0KHW IO91TV -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Jam= es Moritz Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Dear LF Group, A couple of years ago I did some measurements of Rloss of th= e 10m high, 40m=20 long inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical= antenna set up=20 in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings. The= attached graph=20 shows Rloss plotted against frequency over the range 10kHz= to 600kHz for=20 both antennas. At all frequencies, the loss resistance of th= e open-field=20 antenna is much lower than the home QTH antenna, which is su= rrounded by=20 numerous small trees. The ground in both cases was 4 x 1m gr= ound rods, close to the feed point of the antenna. The actual ground around= both antennas was very similar - a waterlogged clay soil. At 10kHz, the open field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against= 380R for the=20 home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss with= frequency -=20 this suggests dielectric losses are dominant (the antenna vo= ltage increases=20 at lower frequencies for a given current) in both cases. The= text books say, for electrically small antennas, that dielectric losses will= dominate at low frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin effect will= eventually cause resistance to start increasing - in the case of the open fie= ld antenna, a=20 turn-over point might have been reached at a few hundred kHz= . The 50R figure suggests that antenna efficiency might actual= ly be higher at=20 9kHz than people are expecting - at least in an open field= site. A suitable=20 loading coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was= around 350pF -=20 in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of around= 0.7H with a Q of=20 about 150, but this had a loss resistance of about 300R. If= you tolerated=20 loosing half the TX power in the loading coil, a similar ind= uctance with a Q of around 1000 would be needed. Increasing the top-loading= capacitance of=20 the antenna would definitely be useful... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You should NEVER 'stick an antenna wi= re into your=20 sound card'.
Chris, G4AYT, Whitstable, Kent.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 M0FMT=
Sent: Thursday, February 25,= 2010 10:38=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: VLF_= 8.79=20 kHz


------=_NextPart_000_001B_01CAB60B.FCF26540-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.9]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD084-86b04b6f2fbb2b1; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:25:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AEB553800013D; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:25:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEby-0005MP-Fj for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:10 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEbx-0005MG-SH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:09 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEbu-0004Jr-Dg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:24:09 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4677196pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=68AyTTRjAzT8uPslfzUCMKHUfFTI7RddVVvcWrb7AkE=; b=LxYGoXIOfmEKRPSM001m6ogLkwM8c1lRVwpD2wJlSWfrnwzRKhqmzqYB4xdesOBYaI +pMgwXQ9ZEaYh9Ulo+SjK8+QW7sairrI2byG4+VPLBYwsd7QiG2X+oSEyELhXMlfOyG3 YxaGZu0WmU3VXeFNtfchiJ+EoMbJIrbL7ijho= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=LSTjBz1JFpIE9dhYoBSimY1zGxmZMS8X8LOgAU9hqPPc0FZO++sDDf5QO3/TrRqA8N 6dasKFKl65SqYI8h0AhnzkHhwLdPco5+Cd4szg++cbN+1P3i7MKdlqhUxfAvrG3z+q6j 1jQ8h2Scd1qeSVuqq5kC9TZWcDu/gV4JkeJlA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.187.13 with SMTP id o13mr3909542rvp.28.1265577838807; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:23:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:23:58 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6d6eff3a354831a7 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071323y25c7bd63yd2518742f3570b2c@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40094b6f2fb84a28 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim, If it is not good for the PA we can try again some other evening. You must have come up with QSB & now you are down again. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:04, James Cowburn wrote: > No joy! You are coming through with strong traces and audible too. > > > > Switching to WSPR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! > > > > Maybe next time > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 20:27 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingha= m & > a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in > strength but not enough for a decode yet. > > > > One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. > > > > Keep trying. > > > > 73, Gary - G4wgt. > > On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on =93= odds=94 > lets see if I make it. > > > > I=92ve had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not lettin= g go > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:50 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > OK Jim, > > > > Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding th= e > port. > > > > GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. > > On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote= : > > Hi Gary > > > > I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 19:17 > *To:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Subject:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Jim,

If it is not good for the PA we can try again= some other evening. You must have come up with QSB & now you are down= again.

73, Gary - G4WGT.



On 7 February 2010 21:04, James Cowburn= <james.c= owburn@virgin.net> wrote:

No joy!=A0=A0 Yo= u are coming through with strong traces and audible too. =A0=A0

=A0

Switching to WSP= R now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! =A0

=A0

Maybe next time<= /span>

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave&= #39;s grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but= not enough for a decode yet.

=A0

One consolation is that it would not be visible or= audible for CW.

=A0

Keep trying.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4wgt= .

On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

3 captures of yo= ur signal so far all about -17dB. =A0I am Txing now on =93odds=94 lets see if I make it.

=A0

I=92ve had comm= port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

=A0

OK Jim,

=A0

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port.<= /font>

=A0

GUD LUK, Gary - G4W= GT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

=A0

I am listening= out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

=A0

From:<= /b> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gr= oup@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:1= 7
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT= 4A

=A0

Hi LF,

=A0

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be= very welcome.

=A0

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, =A0signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (eve= n minutes).

=A0

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

=A0

73, =A0Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

=A0


--000e0cd1ac54848af1047f094d4c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-mb02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB021-a18f4b70208d399; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:32:45 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0A8AC38000116; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeUeJ-0000Vu-11 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeUeI-0000Vl-NK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:38 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeUeE-0001kd-2U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:31:38 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o18EVKND029136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0330 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: V01NA Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b70208b4215 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Quite amazing, Laurence. The next step is to get a stronger signal to you. The Decca amp and tower sections in the shed might prove helpful! 73 and thanks Joe On Sun, 7 Feb 2010, Laurence KL1X wrote: > > Good to see this signal again - Its been awhile Joe. > > > > Laurence KL 1X/5 Oklahoma > > PA0RDT R75 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE083-5ec04b830f8219b; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:13:06 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 37FD5380000AC; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:13:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhRp-0006SH-3Z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhRn-0006S1-OC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:15 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhRk-0006YJ-HC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:15 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id E968651C007 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.12]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB9131E702 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N2.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.12]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:04 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:12:03 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq0EN5EuGcfa20TTgSt4k5J4/DGrQAAlu1h Message-ID: References: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <349186.37812.qm@web28108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b830f800f3a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, what about putting a large (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground= ? It would reduce the required inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the= same time transform the high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a= more convenient value. Of course the cap needs to handle the high antenna voltage, so power shoul= d be more modest than 780 Watt. A ready available source of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable= that can handle many kV's. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable. 73, Rik ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Yep Rik So how do I load it? I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it would= act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before melting. I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watts of= audio to try out. I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB desig= ns in the LF Handbook. I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there is= a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this subject but I am look= ing for a practical method of loading a wire antenna and need help, ideas-= wise. If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are LF stations= who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about 6.5 km away possib= ly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away. May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction of a= wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer. So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe wrote: From: Rik Strobbe Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24 Pete, 2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm has a resistance of 1345 Ohm. So even if the coil doen't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the diss= ipated power. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Group Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L" on 8.9= kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :- A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is 1400= turns, 2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire. A coupling loop of about 2 turns. Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kVolts.= Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red hot. Any suggestions?? 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn wrote: From: James Cowburn Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren= Ziegler Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA > wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be differen= t now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer > wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer > >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna". There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf . >> >> Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> > >> >> Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,<= /font>
 
what about putting a lar= ge (1..10nF) cap from the antenna base to ground ?
It would reduce the requ= ired inductance with a factor 10 to 100 and at the same time transform the= high loss resistance (I gues 1kOhm or more) to a more convenient value.
Of course the cap needs= to handle the high antenna voltage, so power should be more modest than= 780 Watt.
A ready available source= of HV caps is RG8 / RG213 or similiar coax cable that can handle many kV'= s. At 101pF/m you would 10 to 100m cable.
 
73, Rik
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 23:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Ken.
Why not just stick an antenna wire into your Sound card= mic socket=20 and install either Argo Spectran or Spec lab FFT= =20 application. You then have DC to 48kc/s VLF coverage with the= ability to=20 detect very very weak signals. Using SDR software you can then= record=20 the result in real time spectrum allowing it to be processed= by others.=20

This type of set up is used by many people to copy SA= Q on=20 17.2kc/s.
 
It is the method we are using here for some simple tests= on=20 7.8125kc/s and or 9.765625kc/s depending upon xtal used.
 
You are about 11km from this location if you are keen on= this=20 exercise I can let you know when my setup is working. Now that= the=20 weather is getting better I will be able to get out worki= ng on the=20 antenna.
 
Two arrangements will be tried a vertical loop up a= bt=20 12/13m and an earth electrode method. I have no real idea of= how to load=20 these antennas because my best calculations say if I use a kW= the coil=20 about 1 Henry will dissipate most of the power which means it= =20 be getting very very hot and probably fail and need over= 2 km of=20 wire. Totally impractical! Some ideas have been kicked ar= ound on=20 the is reflector and off list there may be something I can try= .

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Thu,= 25/2/10,=20 Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com> wrote:
<= /DIV>

From:=20 Ken <ken.h.wright@btinternet.com>
Subject: LF: RE:= Re:=20 VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Th= ursday, 25=20 February, 2010, 10:05

Hi Jim.
I think I could knock up= a quick 9kHz=20 RX here in Luton over the weekend if
that would help. I= have been=20 following this thread with interest, could you
put up som= e diagrams=20 etc of your parallel capacitor and other antenna
configur= ations and=20 formulae.

73.
Ken
M0KHW   =20 IO91TV

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mai= lto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ]=20 On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 24 February 2010 21:14To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= =20 LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz

Dear LF Group,

A couple= of years=20 ago I did some measurements of Rloss of the 10m high, 40m long=20 inv-L antenna at my home QTH, and also a near-identical ante= nna set up=20
in the middle of a field away from trees and buildings.= The=20 attached graph
shows Rloss plotted against frequency ove= r the=20 range 10kHz to 600kHz for
both antennas. At all frequenc= ies, the=20 loss resistance of the open-field
antenna is much lower= than the=20 home QTH antenna, which is surrounded by
numerous small= trees. The=20 ground in both cases was 4 x 1m ground rods, close

to= the feed=20 point of the antenna. The actual ground around both antennas= =20 was

very similar - a waterlogged clay soil.

At= 10kHz,=20 the open  field antenna has Rloss of 50R, against 380R= for the=20
home QTH antenna. Both antennas show a decreasing Rloss= with=20 frequency -
this suggests dielectric losses are dominant= (the=20 antenna voltage increases
at lower frequencies for a giv= en=20 current) in both cases. The text books say,

for elect= rically=20 small antennas, that dielectric losses will dominate at=20 low

frequencies, while at high frequencies the skin= effect will=20 eventually cause

resistance to start increasing - in= the case=20 of the open field antenna, a
turn-over point might have= been=20 reached at a few hundred kHz.

The 50R figure suggests= that=20 antenna efficiency might actually be higher at
9kHz than= people=20 are expecting - at least in an open field site. A suitable=
loading=20 coil would be a problem. The antenna capacitance was around= 350pF -=20
in these experiments I used a ferrite-cored coil of arou= nd 0.7H=20 with a Q of
about 150, but this had a loss resistance of= about=20 300R. If you tolerated
loosing half the TX power in the= loading=20 coil, a similar inductance with a Q

of around 1000 wo= uld be=20 needed. Increasing the top-loading capacitance of
the an= tenna=20 would definitely be useful...

Cheers, Jim Moritz
7= 3 de=20 M0BMU


Yep Rik
 
So how do I load it?
 
I agree there is about 780 Watts being disapated in the coil so it wo= uld act like a one bar electric fire while the wire held out before meltin= g.
 
I have other options of about 400 watts, 250 Watts and about 100 Watt= s of audio to try out.
 
I need a plan that does not contain unobtainum like most of the RSGB= designs in the LF Handbook.
 
I want to use an air core transformer if at all possible....... there=  is a lot of pontificating on this reflector about this sub= ject but I am looking for a practical method of loading a wire antenn= a and need help, ideas-wise. 

If I can load it with any of the power levels above there are&nb= sp;LF stations who may cooperate in doing an RX test like G7NKS about= 6.5 km away possibly G3xiz or M0jxm roughly 10km away.
 
May be trying to load a piece of wire, which is a miniscule fraction= of a wave length, in the conventional way is not the answer.
 
So I am open to ideas (practical ones)...... anyone?? 
73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>= wrote:

From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org>
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:24

Pete,<= /font>
 
2.5km Cu wire of 0.2mm= has a resistance of 1345 Ohm.
So even if the coil doen= 't get hot by the HV it certainly will by the dissipated power.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR= 7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk= ]
Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 19:19
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

Hi Group
 
Using software to calculate what I would need to load my inv "L&= quot;  on 8.9 kc/s with my 8 Ohm O/P 800 Watt audio amp I get :-=
A coil/transformer of about 1 Henry which with my air cored former is= 1400 turns,
2.5 km length, of 0.2mm diameter wire.
A coupling loop of about 2 turns.
Creating an antenna current of about 1 amp being driven by about 60kV= olts. Making a coil that will be getting pretty hot!!!!! Probably red= hot.
Any suggestions??
 
 
  

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net><= /i> wrote:

From: James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net>
Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 16:31

All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegler
Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

No license is required in the US below 9kHz.

I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let
alone 9kHz!
--
73 Warren K2ORS
                WD2XGJ
                WD2XSH/23
                WE2XEB/2
                WE2XGR/1



On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need= to
contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I remember=
was:-
> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but= we
control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be issuing any licences for that region.
>
> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diffe= rent
now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be
worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. >
> Alan G3NYK
>
> --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer
<Stefan.Schae= fer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
>> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok Roger,
>>
>>
>>
>> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in
>> europe as
>> well? What about the UK?
>>
>>
>>
>> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build
>> a big
>> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the
>> wire high above
>> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do
>> you mean with
>> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround
>> 500W+-6dB. But
>> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna
>> in the
>> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about
>> 2x500m in a
>> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a
>> ferrite
>> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That
>> could be
>> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials,
>> just 2 wires
>> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the
>> feed point,
>> that would be a first step.
>>
>> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF
>> it is the
>> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and
>> make some
>> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much
>> easier on
>> 40/80m...
>>
>> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole,
>> the
>> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i
>> expect. But
>> that are dreams...
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan/DK7FC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>>
>>   At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded
>> electrode pairs are
>> probably the best "antenna".  There are
>> references to how these work in
>> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the
>> 1960s,
>> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the
>> German ham sites
>> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf .
>>
>>   Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair
>> aim with modern
>> signal processing technology and reasonable (amateur
>> levels) available
>> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to
>> submarines at
>> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas
>> stretching for
>> 100s of kms.
>>
>>   73s
>>   Roger G3XBM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> <schaefer@hst= .tu-darmstadt.de>
>>
>>   Hello Horst,
>>
>>
>>
>> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some
>> motivated OMs
>> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting
>> field to
>> test.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna
>> configurations for that
>> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an
>> antenna
>> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in
>> series and in
>> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your
>> house. Nobody
>> will see the wire and nobody will care about it.
>>
>> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted
>> in some
>> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and
>> also 160m.
>> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground.
>> Perfect
>> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even
>> tried
>> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX
>> results, of
>> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX
>> would be
>> interesting...
>>
>>
>>
>> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i
>> think ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some
>> commercial
>> VLF stations in that range? Are there some?
>>
>>
>>
>> 73, Stefan
>>
>>
>>
>> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
>>
>>
>> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29
>>
>>     An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
>>
>>
>> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hallo Stefan,
>>
>>
>>
>> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in
>> DL the range
>> <9kHz is free.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a
>> while I got
>> a letter which confirmed that.
>>
>>
>>
>> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a
>> licence. You do not
>> need one.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no limitation of technical parameters like
>> bandwith or power.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.
>>
>>
>>
>> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT
>>
>>
>>
>> Horst
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
>>
>>     http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>   http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
>>
>>   http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
>>
>>   http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
>>
>> G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL
>> G11088
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ----------------------------
>> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer
>> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t
>> Heidelberg
>> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229
>> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
>>
>> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387
>> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405
>>
>> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C1286AD406AICTSSEXC2CAlu_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.135]) by air-mf07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF071-8bf14b817203f2; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:48:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5DD6738000092; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:48:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjFtj-0006z7-5X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjFti-0006yy-NJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:14 +0000 Received: from web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com ([69.147.97.72]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjFtf-000436-Mn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:47:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 54570 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2010 17:47:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1266774424; bh=p9YKnSOiA/JzTIq7oHZL53XZueux+UkK6blJpGLw47g=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RSbSWxDMRI+oKivgOJVhLU7010MJpl8PhHfAkBM7gr1j6PRgCST5PxW2v2DenGjVs1h3uVaPl7/jr7hUHxKcM5B9zSY74Ny3lYRPyknEL64WUxLfNEXktm/x8sn4H0Itd0L+yLchQjs8SXXUR/raGyvZwfFr1VGd8GBGsGbe6gc= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WJT7KoCL943s+Ki09jI0gYqsDlYui3ibiGhh8KRnz/mm1XvnMVfCXakyFEVQUstvh6YKROsoW74SDt/KrBkkdGafPiItvaUnSrxB8+SL3qciitgz1CpBBSLlkSjGuEy1JHGMYV6H9O2WOKi7BNZJFfkx0NsAK91eprgpe/lmJtk=; Message-ID: <744727.54518.qm@web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: alOx45IVM1le6AceOQcyfQ3srHhpDuBHDWrIC0k.ch0f.5s0YCtjthkA_8U2_n2V4yruv3Wls2wM15TNIMFY29Ueq1k2UB4poCKpJlnPDImYU_l3wczQ5CrR2VboMoyX2P1oSOoUg768hVDuRiLG3hid90rjWtGuRbpjH9Ab2xPU9o07OdQKNXnQlr7fnkreQL6cjQA3LnvUJYuygxEAR8SEbexeNXKggAF_7MxF9m0jl4pwA3YU5exsybi6.IZUMJKQnVlzrffkIiROr2qtf7J1hCn0wGN73g8WjI8- Received: from [24.151.191.133] by web63602.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:47:04 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:47:04 -0800 (PST) From: Andy - KU4XR To: 600 meter group , Part-15 Yahoo , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: DCF77 QSL card Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d246.1 ; domain : yahoo.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40874b81720126b8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Thank you to those who helped me get in touch with the correct person to obtain the QSL from DCF77. They accepted my report as accurate. I have posted the QSL, front and back sides at : http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ 73 to all ::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. USA LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29875 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.13]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB073-a7a34b7d05b110f; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:17:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B7D2D380000A4; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2Uy-0001d7-84 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ni2Ux-0001cy-Sk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from psmtp12.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.24]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ni2Uu-0006Ud-R2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp12.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KY100KBX5RI1U@psmtp12.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:31 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:16:26 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <2D4B02AD3C134972B07FF4E1FF674BAC@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 18-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_IJZniS1vfLQlml4qzNGPQg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55181 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600d4b7d05af6176 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_IJZniS1vfLQlml4qzNGPQg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q)" --Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF capture vx9mrc 507.77khz henny pa3cpm Best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 18-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_JqMrNHH8yBe49OMqwp0x5Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
capture vx9mrc 507.77khz
henny pa3cpm
Best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 18-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld.
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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-db01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB011-85ed4b748413b4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:26:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B193B38000190; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhTe-0002Et-7N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfhTd-0002Ek-S9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:37 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.152]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfhTb-0005g4-7o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:37 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6F6191C00087 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 61CA61C0008C for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.6.163]) by mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 28B271C00087 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:25:27 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100211222527166.28B271C00087@mwinf3423.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <097DCD480C21427488716A2D928BDF8E@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:25:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100211-0, 11/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: gb4fpr Friday 12 1400 Z > 502k Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b7484105803 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GB4FPR , on the air Friday from round 1400 Z till late=20 502 K CW tx/rx and 3.566 tx/rx=20 Reports welcome tnx - G .=20 ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
GB4FPR , on the  air  Frida= y  from=20 round 1400 Z till late
502 K  CW  tx/rx and &= nbsp;=20 3.566  tx/rx
 
Reports  welcome
 
tnx - G .


------=_NextPart_000_009E_01CAAB69.163D91D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-me09.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME093-8bc24b855fd43db; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:20:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 047F93800025D; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:19:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKt1-0006ZY-AE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:59 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkKt0-0006ZP-Rf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:58 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkKsy-00067I-4K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:58 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai0FAFzuhEtcGOxC/2dsb2JhbACNDwONfnO9FoRyBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,533,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="451489272" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.24.236.66]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2010 17:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:18:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 9 Dreamers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b855fbd7094 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Get started and see what happens. 9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L antennas as big as possible and re= sonated at 9 kcs with a suitable series inductor plus some ground rad= ials/rods etc=20 Suitable atu between amp and antenna and see what DX can be worked. Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget all about losses and gold plated= foil, STOP speculation and dreaming and get STARTED.. TIP Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms and match with atu to antenna then= you can use existing test equipment to observe progress. Turn your DREAM into REALITY!! G3KEV ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Get started and see what happens.
9 kcs exciter/1 Kw audio amp/ Inv L= antennas as big=20 as possible and resonated at 9 kcs with a suitable series in= ductor=20  plus some ground radials/rods etc
Suitable atu between amp and antenna= and see what=20 DX can be worked.
Its simple TAKE THE PLUNGE and forget= all about=20 losses and gold plated foil, STOP speculation and dreaming and get=20 STARTED..
TIP
Modify the amp 4/8 ohms to 50 ohms an= d match with=20 atu to antenna then you can use existing test equipment to observe=20 progress.
Turn your DREAM into REALITY!!=
G3KEV
 
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CAB575.6B651C30-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.86]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF044-5ef14b6c358bfc; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:13:15 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 12D9C38000087; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:13:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NdPqF-0004tq-Mc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NdPqF-0004th-Aq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NdPqD-0003Xl-4R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:11:31 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o15FBPl6012006 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:11:26 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:11:26 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:11:11 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AE9@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: test Thread-Index: AcqmYLQ2sPv6lOMTQayYSQ6FUCIw+QAFL9ty References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.5.150046 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAA675.7C8D3C47" Subject: LF: test X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40564b6c35875003 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) 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AAAACgAAAGltYWdlL2dpZgAAAB4AEjcBAAAAEgAAADFCMkBnb29tb2ppLmdtYWlsAAAAHgATNwEA AAAIAAAAMUIyLmdpZgADABQ3BAAAAFws ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAA675.7C8D3C47-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.144]) by air-mb04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB041-a2394b7976382a5; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:28:40 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC76A3800041E; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3mz-0003Yi-CV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh3my-0003YZ-VX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:12 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl ([194.134.41.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh3mw-0002gT-AV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:27:12 +0000 Received: from smtp03.online.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6776802D for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from pa3fnytrqxpddu (s5593e077.adsl.wanadoo.nl [85.147.224.119]) by smtp03.online.nl (Postfix) with SMTP for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 (CET) From: To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: X-Online-Scanned: by Cloudmark authority (on smtp03.online.nl) X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55,STOCK_IMG_OUTLOOK=1 Subject: LF: RE: XGJ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE,HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40904b7976322bf8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, also good reception here 73 Victor -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos OK2BVG Verzonden: maandag 15 februari 2010 13:50 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: XGJ Hello Warren, LF! Your signal was very nice here last night. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ -- Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01CAAE64.16E6D670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 all,
 
also good=20 reception here
 
73
 
Victor
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]Namens Lubos=20 OK2BVG
Verzonden: maandag 15 februari 2010 13:50
Aan= :=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF:=20 XGJ

Hello Warren, LF!
Your signal was very ni= ce here=20 last night.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS


Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1= slu=BEba Zaregistrovat
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X1bdBa+ymodRdfcLkrx5m91kzGXx+Cu4iP8AoH5YkdFdU9QupWqetHWDzGdY+pun+n2htTdX +tSOjeH1VPTPpPkuoef6adNsfpry9dHegnSmpp/R+qesPV3VFXOz04d1CzOR6i5WhqvW2f03 p7QWC0ftB4rxlvXfqvFeK8V4nqeq8V4rxXiep6//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CAAE64.16E46570-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.96]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b798d33e6; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9FAAC380001E9; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Jv-0003ml-1A for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nh5Ju-0003mc-NI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:18 +0000 Received: from mx-02mtaout02.mts.net ([142.161.131.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nh5Js-0003Na-Nr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:05:18 +0000 Received: from wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net ([10.204.128.23]) by mx-02mtaout02.mts.net with ESMTP id <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 Received: from mx-02web01.mts.net ([142.161.131.8]) by wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEAJobeUuOoYMI/2dsb2JhbACaRYFJwiEEgxQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,478,1262584800"; d="scan'208";a="125790555" X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.19 (webedge20-101-1110-20050615) X-Originating-IP: [74.216.94.108] From: To: Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:05:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100215180509.SKHI1910.mx-02mtaout02.mts.net@wnpgmb021pw-sp03.mts.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: 137 khz canada Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60604b798d310645 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Can anyone tell me where I can find the official notification that the 2200 metre band is now available to Canadian Amateurs Tks Vern Ve4XC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.92]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144b88effd2f0; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C5A4A380000AA; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 05:12:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdc-0006PK-5r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:08 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlJdb-0006PB-Hq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 Received: from out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.238]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlJdZ-0003rY-Cs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:07 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgcFAPt+iEtOkzcC/2dsb2JhbACNGAOCHItkc7o/hHsE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,549,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="315657402" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.55.2]) by out1.ip02ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2010 10:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001701cab795$1f876ee0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <815590.4347.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002261728s1be02142h83d7b0d8931e540@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:10:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605c4b88effb367d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable VLF dreamers =20 At the distance predicted for communications all that is required is= to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER would do if you have= symetrical EARS. or even FLAG waving from high ground !! Electrical/Mechanical aids are only necessary above say 20 KCS de Mal/G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Warren Ziegler=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation be= low 9kHz? Hi Pete, Yes I guess I engaged in a bit of hyperbole when I suggest= ed that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, but not by much. If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and that= was to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audibl= e it must be considerably closer. =20 You comment on politics reminds of the old joke:=20 Q. Do you know the difference between capitalism and communism? A. In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the other way 'r= ound ! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 =20 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT wrote: Hi Warren Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is no= t the limit by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there?= He wants to take a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years= ... joking aside....... I am not expecting DX but to have a communicat= ion path that covers the local LF Amateur community on VLF would be ra= ther Cool I think. From there it may be a long road that I for one may= not travel but at the moment there is enough enthusiasm locally to tr= y out a few ideas many have come from this debate on the LF reflector.= The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/2 km from a very= low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz up the road in the= car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this continuous bea= t note running all the time. 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio= Operation below 9kHz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal= that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of troubl= e for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wrote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wil= kinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there= is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a lice= nce would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless tel= egraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the= elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emis= sions from one continent can be heard on another. and they do this without an= y license from the radio authorities. the only regulation they need regards= maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental= protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequenc= y varies, but is usually 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best= practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will alw= ays be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to= regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations= operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is no= t ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually= very nice =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
VLF dreamers   
At the distance predicted for communi= cations all=20 that is required is to just SHOUT at each other or perhaps a WHISPER= would do if=20 you have symetrical EARS.
or even FLAG waving from high ground= =20 !!
Electrical/Mechanical aids are only= necessary above=20 say 20 KCS
de Mal/G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Warren= Ziegler=20
Sent: Saturday, February 27,= 2010 1:28=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special= Permits for=20 Amateur Radio Operation below 9kHz?

Hi Pete,

          Yes I guess I engaged= in a bit of=20 hyperbole when I suggested that 9kHz won't cross the garden wall, bu= t not by=20 much.
If you reckon that the world record is 10km for an amateur and= that was=20 to receive a very faint ARGO trace then for a signal to be audible= it must be=20 considerably closer.
       
         You comment on politics remin= ds of the=20 old joke: 
Q.  Do you know the difference between capitalism and=20 communism?
A.  In capitalism its dog eat dog; in communism its the ot= her way=20 'round !

-- 
73 Warren K2ORS
        &nbs= p;  =20    WD2XGJ 
          &nbs= p;  =20  WD2XSH/23
             = =20  WE2XEB/2
             = =20  WE2XGR/1

  

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:46 PM, M0FMT <m0fmt@yah= oo.co.uk> wrote:

wd2xgj@gmail.com<= /A>>
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject:= Re:=20 LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation bel= ow=20 9kHz?


Asking=20 Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that= will=20 not
extend past your own garden seems like a lot of= trouble=20 for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2ORS
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XGJ
&n= bsp;=20             WD2XSH/23 =20             WE2XEB/2
=  =20             WE2XGR/1
=

On=20 Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org>=20 wrote:
On=20 Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

People=20 may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson= at OFCOM=20 received
today. I asked him what OFCOM's view= would=20 be.

[...]

They=20 state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is= no=20 allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. However= in the=20 UK, a licence would be required as
there is no= lower=20 frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the= WT=20 Act
2006. [...]

there is al= ready a very=20 big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum,
= they=20 inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one=20 continent
can be heard on another. and they do th= is without=20 any license from the radio
authorities. the only= regulation=20 they need regards maximum field strengths
(and th= is is=20 usually the realm of some environmental protection= =20 authority
and not the radio authority). the opera= ting=20 frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6= Hz etc=20 :)

sometimes when dealing with the goverment,= the best=20 practice is not to ask
at all :) even if they agr= ee with=20 you there will always be a "but you will
need a= license for=20 that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if= it is=20 their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic= wave=20 transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or=
any=20 other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not IT= U=20 regulated). you
would probably get an entirely di= fferent=20 answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

= ps. the=20 answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very=20 nice





=







<= BR>
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CAB795.1F2CF2D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.79]) by air-da08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA081-85ea4b68702c1cb; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:34:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mc07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 66A6838000064; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:34:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNZ1-0006go-D5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcNZ1-0006gf-1i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:27 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.26]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcNYy-0001DX-J8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:33:26 +0000 Received: from COL122-W38 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s16.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:33:17 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:33:17 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2010 18:33:17.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FF0A610:01CAA436] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_" Subject: LF: G3KEV X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604f4b68702842d8 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_" --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF! Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snapshot. Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Mal, LF!
Your signal is really excellent - see the attached snaps= hot.

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS

Ho= tmail: D=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu=BEba s =FA=E8innou antispamovou= ochranou Zaregistrovat =3D --_0f06aec1-7da4-4596-b0ed-54e276bb4e1f_-- --_0ade9304-3abd-4429-a530-31436b607107_ Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100202_G3KEV.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAArAYEDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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mtain-mj11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj11.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.95]) by air-dd07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD074-86af4b7f0d0a339; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:13:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8E291380000B0; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nib5N-0007C8-Hf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:33 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nib5M-0007Bz-OQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:32 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nib5L-0003Fh-31 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:12:32 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W33 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:12:24 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.223.157] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:12:23 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> References: ,<91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2010 22:12:24.0154 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D1993A0:01CAB1B0] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_" Subject: RE: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b64b7f0d08798a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Markus - great stuff- I am using the k9ay and had nulled out of one= the chains to get the walking effects - unfortunately I dont have the sdr= up here in Alaska (its in Oklahoma) so cant do a wideband but Ill do a= series of recordings with different headings/amp equalisation and see wha= t comes out - It certainly was a strange "160" sound... I had increased th= e perimeter of the k9ay on just one loop to improve my 137 khz rx - so was= interested to see the affect - this is a very old D600 with the normal so= undcard offsets -=20 =20 Im using a L400 on 137 here and at the moment cant get the performance I= want; I maybuild another PA0RDT which does somewhat better in this locati= on =20 =20 I seem to be suffering with "ground current noise" - whereby the main, 2= phase ground return earth rods are probably close to my radio earth rods= location and Im getting some form of circulating and noise coming up my= earth connection - one of the few times where local earthing is actually= deterioating and Im just earthing at the antennae end - Ill try shoving= some rods up this end of the house, far from the "mains incomer" and see= what happens. =20 42F and a beautiful day here - sunshine and mountains, but still very deep= wet snow by the antennae.... =20 Laurence KL 1 X Wasilla AK BP51IP =20 From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: peter.martinez@btinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C Dear Laurence, =20 good to read you're back in AK... =20 Your observation is interesting. In your region, there should now be two= chains left on air. One is the Canadian West Coast chain on GRI 5990, whi= ch is still supported by US stations, including your nearest one Shoal Cov= e (5990 X). The other is the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be su= pported by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups= of these very similar rates, walking through one another in time. =20 The attached screenshots are the results of feeding your wav to SpecLab's= time domain scope. Using 64 averages on 5990, AM-demodulated pulsegroups= from all stations from the West Canadian chain are visible. The timescale= appears a bit too long because the actual samplerate was close to 22.200= kHz, rather than 22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can= see only a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unusual format for Loran-= C, probably indicating an error condition by "blinking" the first two of= the eight pulses. One possible reason for this might be the Russian maste= r being down. =20 It would be interesting to look at an SSB recording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB).= This could reveal phase coding within the pulsegroups, and possibly allow= verification of the blinking secondary. =20 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =20 From: Laurence KL1X=20 Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Loran A and C =20 Being of a certain age I oft recall the musical phasing noises of Loran= on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky waves did= their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the American 100= khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I took a listen= from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W LF loop and= phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing noise very simil= ar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but of course= a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whether this is just du= e to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a lot of iono smearing= seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it sounded like from here in= Wasilla AK =3D Its a 2Mb file beware best phase noise towards the end... =20 Laurence KL1X "Palinville" Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee We2 XP Q =20 http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav =20 ps the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this evening= but low power as Im playing with the matching - Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now= . =3D =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/=3D --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Markus - great stuff- I am using the k9ay and had nulled out= of one the chains to get the walking effects - unfortunately I dont&= nbsp;have the sdr up here in Alaska (its in Oklahoma) so cant do= a wideband but Ill do  a series of recordings with different he= adings/amp equalisation and see what comes out - It certainly was a= strange "160" sound... I had increased the perimeter of the k9ay on = just one loop to improve my 137 khz rx - so was interested to see the affe= ct - this is a very old D600 with the normal soundcard offsets -
 
Im using a L400 on 137 here and at the moment cant get the performanc= e I want; I maybuild another PA0RDT which does somewhat better in this loc= ation
 
 
 I seem to be suffering with "ground current noise" - whereby the mai= n, 2 phase ground return earth rods are probably close to my rad= io earth rods location and Im getting some form of circulating and noise= coming up my earth connection - one of the few times where local ear= thing is actually deterioating and Im just earthing at the antennae= end  - Ill try shoving some rods up this end of the house, far= from the "mains incomer" and see what happens.
 
42F and a beautiful day here - sunshine and mountains, but still very= deep wet snow by the antennae....
 
Laurence KL 1 X Wasilla AK BP51IP
 
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC: pete= r.martinez@btinternet.com
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:34:58 +0100
Subj= ect: Re: LF: Loran A and C

Dear Laurence,
 
good to read you're back in AK...
 
Your observation is interesting. In your regi= on, there should now be two chains left on air. One is the= Canadian West Coast chain on GRI 5990, which is still supported by US sta= tions, including your nearest one Shoal Cove (5990 X). The other= is the Russian-American GRI 5980, which should be supporte= d by Attu (5980 W). The slow phasing effect is caused by pu= lsegroups of these very similar rates, walking through one another in= time.
 
The attached screenshots are the results of f= eeding your wav to SpecLab's time domain scope. Using 64 average= s on 5990, AM-demodulated pulsegroups from all stations from the West Cana= dian chain are visible. The timescale appears a bit too long because = the actual samplerate was close to 22.200 kHz, rather than&= nbsp;22.050 as assumed by SpecLab. When going to 5980, we can see onl= y a single group of 6 pulses. This is an unusual format for Loran-C, proba= bly indicating an error condition by "blinking" the first two of the eight= pulses. One possible reason for this might be the Russian master bei= ng down.
 
It would be interesting to look at an SSB rec= ording (eg. 98.25 kHz USB). This could reveal phase coding= within the pulsegroups, and possibly allow verification of the blink= ing secondary.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
<= FONT face=3DArial>
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 4:42 AM
Subject: LF: Loran A and C

&nb= sp;
Being of a certain age  I oft recall the musical phasing noise= s of Loran on 160m and kind of missed the musical sounds they made as sky= waves did their thing. With the advent of the closedown of most of the Am= erican 100 khz chains save those serving Canadian and Russian chains I too= k a listen from here on my newly erected larger (maybe 75m) permeter E/W= LF loop and phased out one signal and was left with a slowly phasing nois= e very similar to that heard on 160m - I dont recall hearing it before but= of course  a lot of the chains/half rate are off so.... Now whe= ther this is just due to the rather unstable conditions today up here - a= lot of iono smearing seen on HF but anyway heres the link of what it soun= ded like from here in Wasilla AK =3D  Its a 2Mb file beware best phas= e noise towards the end...
 
Laurence KL1X  "Palinville"= Wasilla Alaska BP51 Eye Pee
We2 XP Q
 
http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
 
p= s the large loop is to improve my s/n on 137 and 500 and it seems pretty= good - Ive also been running a CW beacon around 506.000 Khz this eve= ning but low power as Im playing with the matching -

Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D =
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email servi= ce. Get it now. =3D --_535ae159-68ea-414e-b9fe-a9c15560a8ad_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.223]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDD082-86364b694c152f3; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:12:37 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 016EF38000139; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 05:12:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NccCw-0002Oq-JI for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NccCw-0002Oh-4C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NccCt-00066Y-3s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:11:38 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KX900KBHGB2WG@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:11:27 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:11:18 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 03-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54131 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: Scan Clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60df4b694c13089a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw)" --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77Khz Henny cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 03-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC  507.77Khz
Henny cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 03-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_Pco0cRXLdh6eh1qq+2+pNw)-- --Boundary_(ID_Hhj3IC8vWv3X144+YLcQhg) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 03-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 03-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABNAycDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQGBQcI/8QAGAEAAwEB AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwT/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfjhMT1FW/Ohym0wRckI0RFTZdMBIWiA jQvRmdTi3LoXGHmCJRi2miipV4oDukCVWgTFtNYNGQDhXJDUuqkuFazlKqa10iiBJufQI1Dp VmguzkCrjBszoN+Ze1KhnzKqk1VmltBJ25aoxNQiCxzV3TrFBTcQZKArNOxLmjJ5bIgoNeem S9GYNeTRn1TaBmY3MwW4rQtSvtOO67E/QqcKMX6syQPzXjO+9pILxkGidKoNN6gZmuz3edII DFqGSxHT8xSa8y9ejU0stsaaOE2YBRsHIQzutOhjGFzSy9OK9Kfm0VC1NXCjKlluRbobF+cr 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4.14) id 1Ne1eR-0000Zn-9Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:33:51 +0000 Received: from col0-omc1-s11.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne1eO-0007FA-K2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:33:51 +0000 Received: from COL122-W30 ([65.55.34.9]) by col0-omc1-s11.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:33:41 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [212.4.140.33] From: Lubos OK2BVG To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:33:41 +0100 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2010 07:33:41.0056 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEBA4400:01CAA7C7] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_" Subject: LF: VO1NA_IN_JN88KS X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60da4b6e6d410f3d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_" --_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joe, LF! The LF band was noisy last night, but I saw some traces of your signal on= 137.777kHz. My RX will be ready on this frequency next nights. 73! Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Bezplatn=E1, d=F9v=ECryhodn=E1 a plnohodnotn=E1 e-mailov=E1 slu= =BEba https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=3D60969=3D --_9d6c13e3-697c-4dab-8957-1f3faf4c616f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Joe, LF!
The LF band was noisy last night, but I saw some traces= of your signal on 137.777kHz. My RX will be ready on this frequency next= nights.

73!

Lubos, OK2BVG, JN88KS
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--_54490a3f-a64b-41b9-8364-f77d9162850f_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.79]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA024-b4f64b829a321a5; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:52:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B3269380000E9; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZcY-0001Eo-EU for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:50 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZcX-0001Ef-T4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:49 +0000 Received: from cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.44]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjZcU-00027D-VO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:50:49 +0000 Received: from smtps02.kuleuven.be (smtpshost02.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.75]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id D263651C003 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from PC_van_Rik.fys.kuleuven.be (dhcp-10-33-85-106.fys.kuleuven.be [10.33.85.106]) by smtps02.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5661AF3864 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:36 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:50:51 +0100 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe In-Reply-To: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20100222145036.5661AF3864@smtps02.kuleuven.be> X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_20655593==.ALT" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404f4b829a2b4907 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --=====================_20655593==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as >well? What about the UK? Stefan, in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free" 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T --=====================_20655593==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in europe as well? What about the UK?

Stefan,

in Belgium anything below 9kHz (and above 300GHz) is "free"

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

--=====================_20655593==.ALT-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.92]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME044-8baf4b81010c23f; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:46:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E6D9D380000AF; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj8NB-0005tN-EH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:09 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj8NA-0005tE-Sg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:08 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj8N7-0001fF-FC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:45:08 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1018569bwz.4 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:44:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RHbldvfiLbtiy6GVjfXoOsrdT867zLYtIrG0B7xM1Yk=; b=t24o+9NtwNIfMysKcsSfUYDCFnK74LnimvpCOKAi0Zsn7z41+vOFgTTaTxfSSkh+Um bY3eAusqFKAISNykYrDVigXwmFzYf3byJ2KblZ/xQBKa4LFtBO4s4e7cr8iYhO8G5+YK +wE+AaCOrxkmd63CKsw9B9ZLOrpEUnak0zIzo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=uUwZJ8zMycszBZsJsDoSuPIqqRjYu4oShljEdC99jk+rtkwEQPw8E+Op0hAFVak095 3uLpw21HyCcHvhGG15eFO34mgp9cTy/tMf34y8vYCyZVLh8LavH8B9VQKFGKJ3Ef86jA NiCqe/+ihY7Xj8HBbLj7beI8j29Yd7KCX5XZM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.131.208 with SMTP id y16mr2686085bks.137.1266745498238; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:44:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> References: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> <4B80EFC0.1000800@online.fr> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:44:58 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m232.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405c4b81010a4b5d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean - Pierre... Is the circuit diagram correct ? Your two final op-amps used as differential amplifiers both have their inputs taken from teh same ndes,= yet are labelled to deliver I and Q. The first pair of op-amp do correctly take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then their outputs are summed (differenced !) together. As far as I can see, I and Q outputs are the same signal. Also, there is very littel audio gain in the circuit= , so the receiver as shown requires plenty of RF input to deliver enough aud= io for teh typical soundcard An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it has considerable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep stable. Better to use a MAR-3 at LF. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" wrote: > Hi Scott , > > Please , loock at : http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm > > It is my grabber on 2200m ! > > 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj > > > Scott Tilley a =E9crit : > > Hi All >> >> I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well >> documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? >> >> Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of >> effort would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Regards, >> Scott >> >> >> >> >> > --001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jean - Pierre...
=A0
Is the circuit diagram correct ?=A0=A0 Your two final op-amps=A0used= as differential amplifiers=A0both have=A0their inputs taken from teh same= ndes,=A0yet are labelled to deliver I and Q.=A0=A0=A0The first pair of op= -amp do correctly take I and Q channels from the FST3253 mixer, but then= their outputs are summed (differenced !) =A0together.=A0=A0 As far as I= can see,=A0=A0 I and Q outputs are the same signal.=A0 Also, there is=A0v= ery littel audio gain in the circuit, so the receiver as shown requires pl= enty of RF input to deliver enough audio for teh typical soundcard=20
=A0
An ERA-5 is a rather exotic device to use in the preamp - it has=A0co= nsiderable gain right up to 8Ghz and could be difficult to kep stable.=A0= =A0 Better to use a MAR-3 at LF.
=A0
On 21 February 2010 08:33, "Jean-Pierre M= =E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" <jpm.f1afj@online.fr> wrote:
Hi Scott ,

Please , loo= ck at : =A0 =A0 http://jpmere.online.fr/Grabber/Setup/Setup.htm
It is my grabber on 2200m !

73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj

Scott Tilley a =E9crit :=20

Hi All

I was wondering= if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented for converti= ng a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use?

Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of= effort would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Scott


=



--001517448ad87181cb0480192bd6-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.25]) by air-df04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF043-5ef04b86486a3da; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:52:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 67E6D38000186; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaNu-0001Iv-Gd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkaNu-0001Il-4z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkaNr-0002Za-8J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:51:54 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KYE0028Z626LP@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:51:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:51:39 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <868ECEDBC2284BDFBF9943175A133547@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55490 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41194b86486808c3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q)" --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi All, capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 24-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi All,
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Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 24-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_G8MtmtG6bEkjcCJvY8Hx8Q)-- --Boundary_(ID_l2LubSnsJVZCiRpH5ob8Cg) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 24-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABDArIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMAAQQFBwgG/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQIDAAQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAHybRgd6NKzmEJtEXVFktLnVq5mjPSX JCbW81xdNgcp6cmiWJiFq61akqkOLO143IU6NvOlSx+N6kCXGRrEAr08bdbbjoZ6hDnGgwDo zwmhnVVNOSlq4LryrJcYwXVlBSZ5Jtiy0NJYaYzSJtU2rzNaliFJPSCYrU/O/KpoExjFW+Xp zGo05WqdiU5U1Zow1JtCyG4TpVUVdJOvRlCrxGk5bMPcwhsh3psMIu6UdyK3Z6KtfTVJsW3R ldrz251yEWiS5p1lGnPX+g4SAGa9Z3GroPG5Zo7uHFbueac3OG55YWVoRUj1sbNiexRVJhon 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1NftBX-0003rU-Mg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:55:43 +0000 Received: from psmtp31.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.33]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NftBU-0000ug-O7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:55:43 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp31.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXQ000KA6CKAQ@psmtp31.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:55:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:55:31 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: <4FF65D5E09DF443D895F8D46B721E4ED@ns94d01ae4d850> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54882 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40944b7534180e90 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ)" --Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 12-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_E4W5xazMjzHJlrqdLL1uHQ) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507,77khz
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 12-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. 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dKKaoZWx/YNYvaoa0O0L/Yq2U6tGzS6vAGD6FH9jWF9rfu4eYPAxtIe1f9jfZnbad8//AM+6 gaAev/eEQF08/WDKqtUpUGPq8AAR7gUKerQSu+lX1cGkhq3iP/1UsLpxyxgCOhwZ6WrKilaf mFan2oCxf3eZU3kprYfaMdLFPoZSR9LGp//Z --Boundary_(ID_o8xa/MgHedDHp56Hh+OXeA)-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-mc03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMC032-a8dc4b68d428334; Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:40:56 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6F2293800006B; Tue, 2 Feb 2010 20:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcUDa-0000NP-9w for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:46 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcUDZ-0000NG-Us for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:45 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcUDX-0003VB-5I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:39:45 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Feb 2010 01:39:36 -0000 Received: from dsdf-4db5ee59.pool.mediaWays.net (HELO vp2fc459c0ffcf) [77.181.238.89] by mail.gmx.net (mp008) with SMTP; 03 Feb 2010 02:39:36 +0100 X-Authenticated: #11999604 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18s6O9Tl48sZFhTGx3Ukz+ZZZqdU5s15wUSnQjTYf 4TL2rSIN8YiFTh Message-ID: <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> From: "DL7ET" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:39:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100202-1, 02.02.2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.76000000000000001 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: PAET Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4b68d4275e9f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Now on 496khz PA in CW and ET in QRSS. Who is it? 73 Veit DL7ET / DE0VSP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.212]) by air-de08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDE082-5ebf4b82be2d12a; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:05 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F3FAD380000CB; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc1q-0002s0-1F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njc1p-0002rr-MO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njc1n-0003Xn-4Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:05 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1MHOveg017092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:57 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:57 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:24:56 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZwAAIOX4A= Message-ID: <38F4A9873A5B474DB6FB337B1B69ABA12603EB2DB3@HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> In-Reply-To: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d44b82be2a55be X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipol= e? 73, Chris G4OKW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.16]) by air-da10.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA104-86944b718ca2107; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:26:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0208638000493; Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nestr-00040U-RO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nestr-00040K-GC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 Received: from out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.239]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nestp-0002eV-QJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:19 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsAEALMacUtZ8Y7s/2dsb2JhbACNDgPNRIRUBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,437,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="296668999" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([89.241.142.236]) by out1.ip03ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 09 Feb 2010 16:25:11 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01caa9a4$73292f10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:25:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: 137 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b718ca043d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone wants a CW qso on 137 let me know.=20 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If anyone wants a CW qso on 137 let= me know.=20
de mal/g3kev
 
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA9A4.72C2A510-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.203]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b85c1ad19a; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:49 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D1D27380000A0; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRPZ-0008A9-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkRPZ-0008A0-Fp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: from web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkRPX-00007y-NC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:17:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 53976 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1267057013; bh=EIuZPmpG9yweh1DChZZeElh+ECD8gyQ+aY6qlDW/BKQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=voB1Svd9CypVm0uNnzxKocSLo/Kp1Rpw2vMrRBj0TqBXhnDpbYa9cOUgT35EoT6vsvo8PR8egSy1oPpDDTKGiH3j2hlWEpuY5xpK4mh8khNMxEaEHZnZwH8WoEVWHOnwhAyKs8t/+lijdxMfi81GoPBK+zvWAGEDfSVb/ulU2jA= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gGfzIuMwdNhOTpFFWMrwU+/nCjtoU89fc6GJcK9T/+Ut6XdprhMSUKnDcscHQyNdfuCPzHlHIbfZ6fiUDmm0eD3AcZTEUDINjXH2yeVWlqFUhLenOzUT7z9cjjArKla79xVi8wFue9kOzRbr8vEx1JAyDdfgojfXcLOszr1Ol9U=; Message-ID: <560649.48724.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jsQI_rkVM1llFIpCzg4cn2EWN53RKp9R3PDZPWX8U1Q4HTE0kQ2abQfdAB3ffIrFAQh1sYDZJJfqt0_9hfwVT3QYbs5u2ABo8Mucm8GWKgm.ATUWQcXkT9z5WNx44lkMgil5vSxLrwPtRn6N_GCfVJniRqYJPptn91K0IrNgxk3tfPGjnQVwwbL3V8D_yUApgr.pIyKG0svknAmOWEIG4UCTZyqymgk0Ic1hbc8UN4xsfPlKV.gz4Tr3hqvGRZ3AFu1cfbTHN62mIPV6IaMZ63Bd5AbXL1TAANRoaR8MSyeqzTsUX.zmKyE9QXyP Received: from [213.122.40.46] by web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:16:53 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <1267046900.1740.46.camel@gerhard-desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m274.1 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40cb4b85c1ab333e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Gerhard, yes maybe vandalism but you check out the cost of maintaining= and insuring towers like that today and you will see why they had to come= down....the same reason as the 250m towers at GBR Rugby were felled. Alan G3NYK --- On Wed, 24/2/10, Gerhard Hickl wrote: > From: Gerhard Hickl > Subject: LF: MF-Antennas taken down in Austria > To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > Date: Wednesday, 24 February, 2010, 21:28 > Hello group! >=20 > I know, it's a little bit "off topic" but if anyone is > interested: >=20 > Today two big MF-Antennas (585kc and 1674kc) located very > closely to > Vienna had been taken down. The smaller tower was 120m high > and the > other about 265m. The latter was the highest man-made > object in Austria > until today 14:00z. The power of the transmitters was up to > 600kW.=20 >=20 > I don't know about other countries but at least in Austria > MF is "dead" > since several years. If you talk to younger people, they > hardly know > what you mean by "MF". >=20 > The site name of the two antennas is "Bisamberg" or maybe > "Vienna, > Bisamberg" and if someone is interested, please search on > the web. >=20 > There are a lot of infos and even the video of destroying > the antennas > by explosions today. >=20 > I don't appreciate this senseless act of destruction and in > my opinion > in was a wrong decision by the responsible people. But, as > always, > nobody asked me. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Cheers and 73 >=20 > OE3GHB >=20 > Gerhard >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi01.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.154]) by air-mb05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMB051-a3834b6f244b148; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:36:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2D8DA380000A1; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDqo-0004Au-Ug for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeDqo-0004Al-JB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: from smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeDqm-0003kw-O4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:35:26 +0000 Received: (qmail 66309 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2010 20:35:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=erckwaVdppJAxYxxnO0gPUYmAsOWMhxMngib2/iYT0Vv9VFtRNtv7UdwmYrjITvmHxM+xnuGxoNVdSqOalgTUCikPO243GxMIs+bith016/VpKfvumQEDreK28fA1eyNMtX9FuWgg/Fx89uV3UbseOKjg2HcxSmq4SozPsPJGMQ= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JimPC) (james.moritz@86.180.204.156 with login) by smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-SMTP: qKIhhNCswBB2TTHr2BORWcGGR2mpopxhCcunGIxpCKQYiG07Q7UOhNo- X-YMail-OSG: 2kjtLioVM1lktb_f9qBdAottLac2aG6EfXw33kMQsW0f3.CgjGcFpUuDOs0Oib6vYiheRZO8QNHm6zOvdW_.KxN.bhXy2yi8beSRluhY_oBxef_v73w8IwjAHFCaUfOJzMqVHhc9tsweHrQITkPXgDghlEBGHkCy9y8rymjJsVSdw1YM3ZipTtmIpaJKjzBRnZbvi9TY1slzVbazn.rIzCctvCfyr9.ypglnZQ9T5cka.i963nNh.EZ_wvJKI3Cq X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:35:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdec94b6f24495d9b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Pretty solid copy of both signals here... 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in frequency by about 20Hz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj07.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.91]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC031-85ff4b82b1b91b2; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:57 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 82B923800009E; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbCN-0002Pl-G3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjbCM-0002PT-H1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:54 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbCK-00039L-Ox for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:54 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100222163146.BSPU4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 +0000 Received: from [86.31.219.178] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjbCE-0003kq-Ay for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:31:46 -0000 Message-ID: <015901cab3dc$869cf210$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220822t3340ebc3p71f74b3cd9bcddf2@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: Acqz22lX0/sOC/FbS9K9fquuGBSMAQAAOIZw X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=HmCT5iXHAAAA:8 a=YVLYd_bNAAAA:8 a=spfw7PUuAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=gjHbtiOjAAAA:8 a=tnJwMPGvWQne3beiP74A:9 a=NxWGx0_9xm7LQFMBjcYA:7 a=Ki0KVV2cG6xnfvf8kQsWU7FHHhEA:4 a=l7a6iXsAz5sA:10 a=VoFPz64Ki7sA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=gBMKgfuXvLmqGGc9:21 a=F069Ruj0SsaQRLfR:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89ae4b82b1b61f42 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed fr= om base camp below? =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Warren Ziegle= r Sent: 22 February 2010 16:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz No license is required in the US below 9kHz. I agree with Mal its very difficult to radiate a signal on 137kHz, let alone 9kHz! --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:10 AM, ALAN MELIA wrote: > Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably nee= d to contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one ti= me maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I reme= mber was:- > Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty bu= t we control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not= be issuing any licences for that region. > > I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be diff= erent now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through= . > > Alan G3NYK > > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan_Sch=E4fer wrote: > >> From: Stefan_Sch=E4fer >> Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 11:32 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ok Roger, >> >> >> >> And do you know if f<9kHz is free for other countries in >> europe as >> well? What about the UK? >> >> >> >> If such a grounded dipole is best, than it is easy to build >> a big >> antenna without the problems we have on LF (getting the >> wire high above >> ground). So we also could try big/long antennas. Waht do >> you mean with >> amateur levels? Power range is clear, something arround >> 500W+-6dB. But >> the antenna? Sure, if you think about building an antenna >> in the >> garden, say 2x20m, is not very effective but what about >> 2x500m in a >> forrest, perhaps with the loading coils (which will be on a >> ferrite >> toroid i think) mounted 300m apart from the center? That >> could be >> interesting and easy to try. No tower, no earth radials, >> just 2 wires >> hung up on some trees and measured the impedance at the >> feed point, >> that would be a first step. >> >> This antenna will still be bad but what we are doing -on LF >> it is the >> same- is beeing fascinated to reach a good distance and >> make some >> contacts at very low frequencies, although it would be much >> easier on >> 40/80m... >> >> And so, if one would reach 50km with such a short dipole, >> the >> fascination would be enormous, isn't it? ;-) >> >> >> >> Has anyone, except Horst, tried such experiments as well? >> >> >> >> With the ground wave, one could reach the whole europe, i >> expect. But >> that are dreams... >> >> >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 22.02.2010 11:03, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: >> >> =A0 At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded >> electrode pairs are >> probably the best "antenna".=A0 There are >> references to how these work in >> the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the >> 1960s, >> available on the internet I believe) and on one of the >> German ham sites >> (DK8KW) - see http://www.qru.de/#vlf=A0. >> >> =A0 Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair >> aim with modern >> signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur >> levels) available >> power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to >> submarines at >> 76Hz (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas >> stretching for >> 100s of kms. >> >> =A0 73s >> =A0 Roger G3XBM >> >> >> >> >> >> =A0 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer >> >> >> =A0 Hello Horst, >> >> >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some >> motivated OMs >> in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting >> field to >> test. >> >> >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna >> configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an >> antenna >> tower. There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in >> series and in >> parallel. You do not need to have that area beside your >> house. Nobody >> will see the wire and nobody will care about it. >> >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted >> in some >> trees on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and >> also 160m. >> The loop has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. >> Perfect >> matching from 160m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even >> tried >> matching on 2200m without a problem but with bad ODX >> results, of >> course. But if one would try 2x 10*100m on VLF, the ODX >> would be >> interesting... >> >> >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i >> think ;-) >> >> >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some >> commercial >> VLF stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation >> ;-) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> >> >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> >> =A0 =A0 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in >> DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a >> while I got >> a letter which confirmed that. >> >> >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a >> licence. You do not >> need one. >> >> >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like >> bandwith or power. >> >> >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> >> >> Horst >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> >> =A0 =A0 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> =A0 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> >> =A0 http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> >> =A0 http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM >> >> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL >> G11088 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------- >> Dipl.-Ing. Stefan Sch=E4fer >> Institut f=FCr Umweltphysik der Universit=E4t >> Heidelberg >> Im Neuenheimer Feld 229 >> D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany >> >> schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> Phone: (+49) (0)6221 546387 >> Fax: (+49) (0)6221 546405 >> >> www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de >> >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-df06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF062-5ef74b6f34f7160; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:47:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AC815380002D9; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:47:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeExc-00060h-5n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:32 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeExb-00060X-JU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:31 +0000 Received: from mail-px0-f187.google.com ([209.85.216.187]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeExY-0004ai-B0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:46:31 +0000 Received: by pxi17 with SMTP id 17so4723926pxi.30 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:46:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1op+SHcIvaI3rqL13a3aLseFjQzn1y8c5C/4T++DmaU=; b=FjI7lOEp2aSSpiJVW9To2kHS9/2UNl3LbDHm5JDb16SkYjObf22p6HFuQPyYIflqUu vuv7wE6eJ7qEd7+dXJJpCor8fF+Gfpr0eRJp6R8XiWlfCnDfYBDRkCQomXCV63davyUo 2RyrKuevinbued6yb/6Wutd/XoyJ2ygcN89hc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=N9VfWVUTFMfHzT51dlQhiUMRg3dwwk+1JowNg5mlGSART8ZXgy4YFk8YYr05rL8gfl 3I09t0KUpicBDd9+hfjoVtgyfZwrXnZGRKogZ90EmpwlS2xyfQN29toAvFGa16ZHPuiW YStPsrZ55xozblA3y++GGCuwe8YRl6gUyZtzk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.213.29 with SMTP id p29mr3868365rvq.133.1265579181952; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:46:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> <006e01caa83c$4b42bed0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:46:21 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5aac05188cf2a6f9 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071346k3118b262haa3eca3f993cfed8@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4b6f34f534fe X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Yes, all OK. I will send you my crib sheet later it will help to send the correct response. Thanks for completed JT4A 2 way. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 21:27, James Cowburn wrote: > Great, have replied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) > > > > > > > > With best regards > > > > > > *Jim* > > > > > > Dr. James Cowburn > > 26 Birch Close > > Broom > > Biggleswade > > Beds > > SG18 9NR > > > > T +44 (0) 1767 600522 > > M+44 (0) 7967 300152 > > E james.cowburn@virgin.net > > > > *The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is > addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you must not > read this message. > Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any > action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than > the intended recipient is prohibited. Consequently, this email is not > intended to be contractually binding. > If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the > message as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer. > *** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Gary - G4WGT > *Sent:* 07 February 2010 21:15 > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Jim, > > > > Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. > > > > 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > > > Gary. > > On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: > > Sorry I knocked the VFO! > > Thanks for the report > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Yes, all OK.

I will send= you my crib sheet later it will help to send the correct response.
<= div>
Thanks for completed JT4A 2 way.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 7 Februa= ry 2010 21:27, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Great, have repl= ied but not sure I have sent right message (newbie!) =A0

=A0

=A0

=A0

With best regard= s

=A0

=A0

Jim

=A0

=A0

Dr. James Cowbur= n

26 Birch Close

Broom

Biggleswade

Beds

SG18 9NR<= /font>

=A0

T +4= 4 (0) 1767 600522

M+44= (0) 7967 300152

E <= font size=3D"2">james.cowburn@virgin.net

=A0=

The information transmitted is inte= nded only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privile= ged material. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified= that you must not read this message.
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of an= y action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other tha= n the intended recipient is prohibited.=A0 Consequently, this email is not intended to be contractually binding.
If you received this in error, please contact the sender, return the messa= ge as well as its attachments and delete the whole from any computer.

=A0

Jim,

=A0

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.

=A0

211100 =A04 =A0-20 =A00.1 =A0 =A02 32 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0=A0

=A0

Gary.=

On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virg= in.net> wrote:

Sorry I knocked the= VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


=A0


Racal MA= 7917B HF=20 Independent side-band exciter SSB <= /DIV>
Can be&n= bsp; modified=20 for  MF by changing  the  2  tuned=20 cct's 
on the&n= bsp; band=20 pass  filter  board.
Ebay item  Ite= m=20 number:160406367998
<= /TD>


------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CAB33F.ACD1E9B0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-da03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA034-86634b6a1b971e6; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:57:59 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A7C2438000289; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncq1Q-00080I-F9 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncq1Q-000809-3c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.128]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncq1O-0004Gg-33 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:56:40 +0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4E1091C00089 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 40FFA1C00095 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.39.235]) by mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id BB1041C00089 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:56:29 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20100204005629766.BB1041C00089@mwinf3408.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: <0F031AEED8B34801AD1B8E974ABCCC7A@AGB> From: "Graham" To: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:56:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100203-1, 03/02/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166,UPPERCASE_25_50=0 Subject: LF: G3PLX , ALL DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER RADCOM MARCH 2009 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, LINES_OF_YELLING,LINES_OF_YELLING_2,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b6a1b943eee X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable G3PLX , ALL DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER=20 Q What is the status of this project .. was it finished .. was= a kit produced for the parts etc ? G ..=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
G3PLX , ALL  DIGITAL TRANSCEIVER=
 
Q    What is the = status =20 of this  project .. was it  finished ..  was a kit = ;=20 produced  for the  parts etc ?
 
G ..


------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CAA534.D5DA81F0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.136]) by air-de04.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE044-5eb14b6734883bd; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:07:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dc08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5765138000311; Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2X8-0002gx-VL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nc2X8-0002go-KC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2X5-0001GG-Rq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:06:06 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsoEAETDZktOkovO/2dsb2JhbACNHwPNLIRFBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,385,1262563200"; d="scan'208,217";a="438528179" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.146.139.206]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 01 Feb 2010 20:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01caa379$f28d7e90$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: "rsgb" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:05:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: LA1TN 500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40884b67348706f0 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New station LA1TN now active on 500 cw. His first QSO on 500 with me= a few ago. 2004utc 1/02/2010 de mal/g3kev ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
New station LA1TN now active on 500= cw. His first=20 QSO on 500 with me a few ago. 2004utc 1/02/2010
de mal/g3kev
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CAA379.E26E7320-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.202]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA043-863c4b7bb4f2f8; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:20:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9918D3800028B; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:20:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhg3l-00077g-2O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:05 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nhg3k-00077X-Gc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:04 +0000 Received: from psmtp08.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nhg3i-0006sw-F3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:19:04 +0000 Received: from ns94d01ae4d850 (ip51cc8b9f.speed.planet.nl [81.204.139.159]) by psmtp08.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with SMTP id <0KXZ001EEB7GS8@psmtp08.wxs.nl> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:53 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:53 +0100 From: henny van elst To: blacksheep Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g)" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55134 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ca4b7bb4f06643 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA)" --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Joe,LF Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ Henny pa3cpm best 73s Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden: VX9MRC 17-02.jpg Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA) Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Hi Joe,LF
Capture VX9MRC 507.77KHZ
Henny pa3cpm
best 73s
Het bericht kan nu met het volgende bijlagen of koppelingen worden verzonden:
VX9MRC 17-02.jpg

Opmerking: Sommige e-mailprogramma's staan ter beveiliging tegen virussen het verzenden of ontvangen van bepaalde bestandsbijlagen niet toe. Controleer de beveiligingsinstellingen voor uw e-mail als u wilt weten hoe bijlagen worden afgehandeld. --Boundary_(ID_AnFLfqwriJsRLnfAj1pSDA)-- --Boundary_(ID_/sMYFyGFMlk+DjKwG6AN3g) Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="VX9MRC 17-02.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="VX9MRC 17-02.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8S EhEPERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEU Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wgAR CABXA14DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBAgQFBggH/8QAGQEAAwEB AQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQF/9oADAMBAAIQAxAAAAH8fW13YIi1rSJYvAi7F2EEA9DXVWON SpmlmUbfk0Kp0lgoWXXm7jq6tMuYjPazaeerUkkTOJWZZoKq2kDKReyIoySsMYxNrIHL6vd4 i9cc3Ki2o96q3rli7s8kS6Cs735UquRaRidEbpEusjPLlyRMutrhTidOEnG6FmOVulerrVtJ S4daBN62atRkaNcOnMvmaqnXQq0qkxZKt13oit2DRpSJ2W6LEXLZyqWxL+t8enPzsJ64fH0R HeQTeCouWmlaaO788g/Ky8Um2jKIjUlJuZ1NBTrqyJrdlPPDiVWSmisxDpaHTSgYqqG2z2gY 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Radio Operation below 9kHz? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-30927954-1267217219=:4347" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m257.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60ce4b88339a393c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Warren =A0 Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit by any= means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch. Your New President is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take= a leaf out of our book we've been doing it for years... joking aside.....= .. I am not expecting DX but to have a communication path that covers the= local LF Amateur community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From ther= e it may be a long road that I for one=A0may not travel but at the moment= there is enough enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come= from this debate on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite read= able at about 1/2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX=A0during= a quick wiz up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringi= ng with this continuous beat note running all the time. =A0 73 es GL petefmt -------------------------------------------------- From: "Warren Ziegler" Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:31 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operation below 9k= Hz? Asking Ofcom for a license or Nov to generate a signal that will not extend past your own garden seems like a lot of trouble for nothing.... --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XGJ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WD2XSH/23 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XEB/2 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WE2XGR/1 On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jacek Lipkowski wr= ote: On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapthorn wrote: People may be interested in the reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received today. I asked him what OFCOM's view would be. [...] They state that ITU Radio Regs indicate that there is no allocation for frequencies below 9 kHz. However in the UK, a licence would be required as there is no lower frequency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act 2006. [...] there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vlf spectrum, they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions from one contine= nt can be heard on another. and they do this without any license from the rad= io authorities. the only regulation they need regards maximum field strengths (and this is usually the realm of some environmental protection authority and not the radio authority). the operating frequency varies, but is usual= ly 50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :) sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not to ask at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will need a license for that" clause. if you have to ask, ask them if it is their duty to regulate potential electromagnetic wave transmission from instalations operating on 50Hz (or any other frequency in the 0-9kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you would probably get an entirely different answer :) VY 73 Jacek / SQ5BPF ps. the answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice =20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Warren
 
Well I can tell you right now that the garden wall is not the limit= by any means unless you live on John Wayne's Ranch.
Your New President= is trying to create jobs over there? He wants to take a leaf out of our= book we've been doing it for years... joking aside....... I am not expect= ing DX but to have a communication path that covers the local LF Amateur= community on VLF would be rather Cool I think. From there it may be a lon= g road that I for one may not travel but at the moment there is enoug= h enthusiasm locally to try out a few ideas many have come from this debat= e on the LF reflector. The near field signal is quite readable at about 1/= 2 km from a very low power TX using a whip on RX during a quick wiz= up the road in the car. Must key this thing my ears are ringing with this= continuous beat note running all the time.
 
73 es GL petefmt
-------------------------------------------------= -
From: "Warren Ziegler" <wd2xgj@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25= , 2010 9:31 PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /A>>
Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio Operati= on below 9kHz?


Asking Ofcom for a license= or Nov to generate a signal that will not
extend past your own garden= seems like a lot of trouble for
nothing....

--
73 Warren K2= ORS
              WD2XGJ
 =             WD2XSH/23
    &nbs= p;         WE2XEB/2
        &nb= sp;     WE2XGR/1


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Jac= ek Lipkowski <sq5bpf@lipkowski.org> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010, Roger Lapth= orn wrote:

People may be interested in the= reply from Rod Wilkinson at OFCOM received
today. I asked him what OFC= OM's view would be.

[...]

They state that ITU Radio Re= gs indicate that there is no allocation for
frequencies below 9 kHz. Ho= wever in the UK, a licence would be required as
there is no lower frequ= ency limit for wireless telegraphy under the WT Act
2006. [...]

there is already a very big commercial user of the elf and vl= f spectrum,
they inject very big power into ground dipoles. emissions= from one continent
can be heard on another. and they do this without= any license from the radio
authorities. the only regulation they need= regards maximum field strengths
(and this is usually the realm of some= environmental protection authority
and not the radio authority). the= operating frequency varies, but is usually
50Hz, 60Hz, 16.6Hz etc :)
sometimes when dealing with the goverment, the best practice is not= to ask
at all :) even if they agree with you there will always be a "but you will
ne= ed a license for that" clause.

if you have to ask, ask them if it= is their duty to regulate potential
electromagnetic wave transmission= from instalations operating on 50Hz (or
any other frequency in the 0-9= kHz region, that is not ITU regulated). you
would probably get an entir= ely different answer :)

VY 73

Jacek / SQ5BPF

ps. the= answer that you got from OFCOM is actually very nice

=







=20 --0-30927954-1267217219=:4347-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.9]) by air-me06.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINME063-8bb64b6f424f1ce; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:44:31 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2046E38000492; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:44:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeFq8-0006Jt-27 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:52 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeFq7-0006Jk-EP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:51 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeFq5-0004qP-Qr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:51 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207224243.JNEL4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:42:43 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeFpz-0007LX-6j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:42:43 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:42:41 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01caa846$db53f4d0$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoRtsdz9R6qOvTSaOZRptBlPnYkg== X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=MM7NfCvmF6GXd1KLBqwA:9 a=VJA4mg0ymkC3gKpIP6bGZi56ZPwA:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=mqZIuzLtVHXK6pBDU08A:9 a=y-q21TXJzle5h35jg-QA:7 a=OA6sSL90LpwOF7DvQUuRCOFM2zcA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: wrong power setting on WSPR spots Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60094b6f424d5668 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LF - sorry I was txing with around 50mw and not 5 mw. I am now on around 5mW as from 22.40z With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LF – sorry I was txing with aroun= d 50mw and not 5 mw.  I am now on around 5mW as from 22.40z

 

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

------=_NextPart_000_008E_01CAA846.DB53F4D0-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.210]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC084-86a64b82911e326; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:50 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6D3CB380000F4; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:13:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZ1L-00014h-Oe for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjZ1L-00014Y-5P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjZ1G-0001no-0I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:12:23 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1675079bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:12:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ec+EacQMnBuxSyR4mOP7vbLq+iqQfa58feiwVRBa2bc=; b=a1oSDdowqmNF7aBkED34SSPgvJfKSRLmnjru9pGyxs7OoQsFxQ6SOMDjOKls7UmPaS pL0V0j4Ig+UHR7pIrQq9bbpbZmeGFdWvpZ3Ql4GJXVpX7qVj3wdY3K7qWZfBxCzPKJTb sC699XMwXKkL+33+kObCeKElVRpvp/TN3UWj0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=lA6C+qT4ad6GkyGTjIcuWrDGSD0F8accD7g3PpnRafGmnc20Rnj3nYCUJs7pXMa5Ec UR2mRxf/Xbk9T3I/4EVEpGd7OmYEO0W7Pe2+q5YDi5XGbAnSxbVeU662HapkfRh/2iM8 0dKoaSln9lLCOPq65+GCtiSQXysLwBaWwej0Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.2.206 with SMTP id 14mr4404508bkk.189.1266847912629; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:11:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32098189.1842344.1266827344324.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb080> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B04@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <9afca2641002220203x1671635et5ec5b31b691fc46e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:11:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220611q66b23d86h61ad2ab136149d6c@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m240.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d24b82911c5c67 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to. Here are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and practicalities: < http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=3DgetRecord&metadataPrefix=3Dhtml&identi= fier=3DAD0640319 > < http://www.search.com/reference/Ultra_low_frequency#Earth_Mode_Communicati= ons > 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 10:03, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > At this frequency, widely spaced, grounded electrode pairs are probably= the > best "antenna". There are references to how these work in the literatur= e > (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, available on the interne= t I > believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW) - see > http://www.qru.de/#vlf . > > Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern signal > processing technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available power. > Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz (yes > Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of kms. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > 2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer > > Hello Horst, >> >> That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated OMs= in >> the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to test. >> >> Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for that >> range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower= . >> There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel= . You >> do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the wi= re >> and nobody will care about it. >> Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some tree= s >> on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The lo= op >> has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from= 160m >> to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a >> problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m >> on VLF, the ODX would be interesting... >> >> JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-) >> >> What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F >> stations in that range? Are there some? >> >> 73, Stefan >> >> PS: One can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-) >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker >> Gesendet: Mo 22.02.2010 09:29 >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing on 8.79 kHz in QRSS >> >> >> >> Hallo Stefan, >> >> there was a notice in Funkamateur 12/05, S. 1287, that in DL the range >> <9kHz is free. >> >> I could not believe that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got= a >> letter which confirmed that. >> >> So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do not nee= d >> one. >> >> There is no limitation of technical parameters like bandwith or power. >> >> Hard to believe in german, but obviously true. >> >> My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT >> >> Horst >> ___________________________________________________________ >> NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen! >> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015174c179ed116bd0480310368 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was NATO AGARD papers (not AGAARD) that I was referring to.

Here= are some other useful references to ULF/VLF system design and practicalit= ies:

<http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea= bs_all.jsp?reload=3Dtrue&arnumber=3D1138037>
<http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&= amp;verb=3DgetRecord&metadataPrefix=3Dhtml&identifier=3DAD0640319<= /a>>
<http://www.search.com/reference/Ultra_low_f= requency#Earth_Mode_Communications>

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 10:03, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
At this frequency, widely spaced,=A0grounded electrode pairs are prob= ably the best "antenna".=A0 There are references to how these wo= rk in the literature (for example NATO AGAARD papers from the 1960s, avail= able on the internet I believe) and on one of the German ham sites (DK8KW)= - see http://www.qru= .de/#vlf=A0.
=A0
Don't expect great ranges: up to 10kms is a fair aim with modern= signal processing=A0technology and reasonable (amateur levels) available= power. Project Sanguine achieved worldwide coverage to submarines at 76Hz= (yes Hertz!) but used enormous power and antennas stretching for 100s of= kms.
=A0
73s
Roger G3XBM


=A0
2010/2/22 Stefan Sch=E4fer &l= t;schaef= er@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hello Horst,
That sounds really nice. If it would be easy to find some motivated= OMs in the near field (31km) ;-), that would be an interesting field to= test.

Yesterday i have thought about possible antenna configurations for tha= t range and got the idea that one could use a forrest as an antenna tower.= There, you could hang up 100s meters of wire, in series and in parallel.= You do not need to have that area beside your house. Nobody will see the= wire and nobody will care about it.
Since summer 2007 i have a horizontal loop antenna mounted in some trees= on my hill with excellent results on all HF bands and also 160m. The loop= has 130m and is mounted up to 12m above ground. Perfect matching from 160= m to 10m with my symmetric tuner. I even tried matching on 2200m without= a problem but with bad ODX results, of course. But if one would try 2x 10= *100m on VLF, the ODX would be interesting...

JO30OT is abt 160km from JN49IS and thus a little far i think ;-)
<= br>What is your RX antenna and have you already catched some commercial VL= F stations in that range? Are there some?

73, Stefan

PS: One= can be sure that there will never be SSB operation ;-)

________________________________

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org im Auftrag von Horst St=F6cker
Gesendet: Mo 22.0= 2.2010 09:29
Betreff: RE: LF: AW: Beaconing= on 8.79 kHz in QRSS



Hallo Stefan,

there was a notice in Funkamateur 12= /05, S. 1287, that in DL the range <9kHz is free.

I could not be= lieve that so I asked the BNetzA and after a while I got a letter which co= nfirmed that.

So there nothing you've got to do for getting a licence. You do no= t need one.

There is no limitation of technical parameters like ban= dwith or power.

Hard to believe in german, but obviously true.

My QTH is Siegburg JO30OT

Horst
____________________________= _______________________________
NEU: Mit WEB.DE DSL =FCber 1000,- =BF sparen!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/=






--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www= .youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088



--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015174c179ed116bd0480310368-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.147]) by air-dd03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD031-86094b7f95a43cb; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:56:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7585338000087; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:56:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NikAd-0000vp-TZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NikAd-0000vg-GC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.4]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NikAa-00065v-NT for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:54:35 +0000 Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A4C4C8115 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.1] (cha86-1-82-247-200-10.fbx.proxad.net [82.247.200.10]) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95DA4C8090 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B7F9532.60808@online.fr> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:54:26 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?=22Jean-Pierre_M=E9r=E9_=28F1AFJ=29=22?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: LF T/A [137kHz] XKO , XES , XGJ last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60934b7f95a271f6 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hello Dex , John , Warren , Good copy of yours beacons last night . 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.209]) by air-db04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDB041-85f04b84517a263; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 77123380000BF; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2sT-0003kP-0q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:13 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nk2sS-0003kG-Hf for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:12 +0000 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nk2sP-0007R2-U8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:12 +0000 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1NM5388002357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:04 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:03 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:05:01 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Thread-Index: Acq01D/oXdS3eFilSL6w7VzXazIhpg== Message-ID: References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> In-Reply-To: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d14b8451791fc2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear All, John Rabson, F5VLF, is having trouble posting to this group. He asked me= to forward this for him, which he has sent unsuccessfully twice: --------------- Clank, The reflector has twice not delivered the attached. Would you try for me,= please? 73 John *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 23/02/2010 at 14:16 John RABSON wrote: From: John RABSON To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:00 +0100=20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz My LF ground system consists of nine rods each 1 m long, separated by about 2 m. if I connect them in parallel the inductance at 980 Hz is about 7?H, and the resistance is about 25 ohms. This suggests that, at the frequencies we are considering, this is an essentially resistive termination and we don't need to cancel out the reactive part. =20 If we place a similar setup at the other end of a long wire we should see of the order of 50 ohms. Given that we are working at audio frequency, perhaps the step-up transformer from 8 ohms could use conventional soft iron laminations. At 50 Hz, my colleagues used to use a rule of thumb of 20VA per pound of laminations but I can't remember how this figure varied with frequency. Can any audio power engineers please comment? 73 John F5VLF ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.14]) by air-da09.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDA094-86934b6f2dae2c0; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:16:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A8F738000041; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeETh-0005Ed-B4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeETg-0005EU-Sy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:36 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeETd-0004Fl-TZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:15:36 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2474558pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:15:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=xIcRH9R6LgIU4YI9Ho9oE3q3VUZugxhZzPAG/Bj6xZ0=; b=Awb9Ti9ga8z9B71yFz/bvsPNoZPhnmJGggl5666OojcB0CpBlcB4XZMlvP2c7EXqU1 Jv9bm1zlCZXznLZM9EUokPY6H/jjuNOh3+YSZCFgLDp4L/YqTdHwCyH2rBumYPlz6w2x r1fqvx7sevRKufl2KXPvojrgWotZeMLqgcf2E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=FGsPZmRXdSOf/9X3ywgA2z7V8ohOlIRE6jc/EXAPo2WueXFR+7ahDgcXU0hzkE33Bc SyeTIW2uPCiiEWNdND6KvpVWuXuCoSj3l3jLiq5PnrrNWC7TQLmsc5wt0PEISvqCha98 Qtioqg31wV+z5AnUFp1BkognPC9zlYwIv1wNI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.5.13 with SMTP id h13mr2721025rvi.34.1265577326154; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:15:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <4A9C9D912D92415B8F537DC47AA1B8F6@JimPC> <005101caa837$b3216ba0$0217aac0@desktop> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:15:26 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: d0d35e6118d14fb0 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071315r1fad387fkda3a2379c36f9e68@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410e4b6f2dad089d X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jim, Decode, waiting for you confirm reply. 211100 4 -20 0.1 2 32 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 Gary. On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn wrote: > Sorry I knocked the VFO! > > Thanks for the report > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz > Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, > > Pretty solid copy of both signals here... > > 02000 27 -4 0.7 -77 34 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202101 11 -3 0.0 -70 33 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202201 23 -4 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202301 1 -11 0.1 -70 44 * > 202401 22 -5 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202501 12 -3 0.1 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202601 23 -7 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202701 10 -3 0.0 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > 202801 24 -9 -0.3 -77 33 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > 202901 10 -3 -0.3 -92 22 * G4WGT G7NKS IO92 1 0 > > The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shifted down in > frequency by about 20Hz. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > --000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim,

Decode, waiting for you confirm reply.
<= br>
211100 =A04 =A0-20 =A00.1 =A0 =A02 32 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7N= KS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0=A0

Gary.
On 7 February 2010 20:54, James Cowburn <james.cowburn= @virgin.net> wrote:
Sorry I knocked the VFO!

Thanks for the report


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of James Moritz
Sent: 07 February 2010 20:35
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Subject: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz JT4A

Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group,

Pretty solid copy of both signals here...

02000 27 =A0 -4 =A00.7 =A0-77 34 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202101 11 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-70 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202201 23 =A0 -4 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202301 =A01 =A0-11 =A00.1 =A0-70 44 *
202401 22 =A0 -5 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202501 12 =A0 -3 =A00.1 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202601 23 =A0 -7 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202701 10 =A0 -3 =A00.0 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 0
202801 24 =A0 -9 -0.3 =A0-77 33 * =A0 =A0 =A0CQ G4WGT IO83 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 1 =A0 0
202901 10 =A0 -3 -0.3 =A0-92 22 * =A0 =A0 =A0G4WGT G7NKS IO92 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A01 =A0 0

The "missing" line occured when G7NKS's signal suddenly shif= ted down in
frequency by about 20Hz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




--000e0cd10858f616bf047f092ee7-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.221]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC061-a96f4b8a9ace275; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:33:18 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 57C2438000110; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlm40-0006UP-BL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nlm3z-0006UG-L2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:15 +0000 Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.14]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nlm3x-0000KP-09 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:15 +0000 X-Trace: 186790501/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-temporary-group/79.71.251.109/None/m0afj@dsl.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 79.71.251.109 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: m0afj@dsl.pipex.com X-SMTP-AUTH: X-MUA: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApIBAE8piktPR/tt/2dsb2JhbAAHjzHEfYR7BA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,556,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="186790501" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 79-71-251-109.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [10.0.0.11]) ([79.71.251.109]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 28 Feb 2010 16:32:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4B8A9A8A.5070708@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:32:10 +0000 From: tim hague User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B21@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <8F98AB84B99B4DC1BBD55E264D6FC983@Black> <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> In-Reply-To: <000d01cab88f$63d380c0$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40dd4b8a9acc5d2a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) mal hamilton wrote: > Pse qsp to Stefan to SHOUT from his hill top and face DOWN wind for an= =20 > extra 23 dB. If all 9 DREAMERS face his direction records could be=20 > broken without the KITE, > Do not break WIND to avoid QRM during the listening period. > =20 > G3KEV > =20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Markus Vester > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:48 PM > *Subject:* LF: Re: VLF TX experiments this sunday > > Dear LF, > =20 > Stefan DK7FC just called me on the phone. He asked me to inform > the group that because of much heavier winds than expected, he > will not be able to transmit from the kite antenna today. He also > mentioned that the output matching of his PA (a converted SMPS > circuit) will require some more work. > =20 > Kind regards, > Markus (DF6NM) > =20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Stefan Sch=E4fer > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:33 PM > *Subject:* LF: VLF TX experiments this sunday becomes more > probably > > Dear LF group, > =20 > Tomorrow, the wind forecast is excellent! See > http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/frankfurt > It is almost to much wind but i have the new kite braid with a > strenght of 500kg... So the antenna will be in a high angle > and stable for tests. That is the first positive news. > =20 > Yesterday i got such a air coil. It has not 85mH but even > about 100mH but It's Q is bad at 8,9kHz, just about 38. > Anyway, i will easily handle 20kV rms. This will be the > maximum voltage on my single wire. There are several > possibilities to increase the maximum antenna voltage, well > known and applied in the high voltage power fields but this > may be very difficult at a kite antenna. So i will start with > a first test at only 20kV, if the PA will give a proper power ;-= ) > =20 > That coil is very heavy, about 50kg, really no fun to carry > that and there are better ways to realisethat. But it is > available i get the chance to resonate that 100m vertical at > 8,9kHz. I tried to resonate it in the living room of my > parents since it it to heavy to carry it in my room in the > first floor ;-) It was successfully resonated with 6x22nF/6kV > plus a lower voltage C in series, about 33nF/2kV and a DDS VFO > with a sinus output, loosely coupled by another air coil (in > this way i will be able to make a transformation of the > resonated loop!(varying the coupling)). The 8,9kHz are well > audible so i am excited how the antenna and coil will sound > when some 100W applied;-) > =20 > The last problem is the PA since it is not yet available. I > will try to built it today or tomorrow in the morning but i > have also to spend some time with my YL. I hope that can be > arranged... > =20 > On the hill i have no internet but i will at least inform > Markus/DF6NM to give those who are interested a information > here... > =20 > I have to go now, and will inform you... > =20 > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von > Alexander S. Yurkov > Gesendet: Sa 27.02.2010 20:37 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Betreff: RE: LF: Fwd: Special Permits for Amateur Radio > Operation below 9kHz? > > > > > when back in the mid 90's the initial request for a longwave > amateur > > segment (what later turned out to be 137kHz) was discussed, > one of the > > big telecom "bobo's" stated that they saw no harm that > amateurs would > > transmit there with max. 1 W EIRP as with that power one > wouldn't be > > able to get any further than the other end of the town. > > It turned out a bit different, unless you see the world as > one big town ;-) > > Rik, after some theoretical estimations done i am absolutely > shure > QRSS communications at few 100s km (may be more) is posible on > 9 kHz. > There is lot of problems on TX side but them to be solvable. > Main problem > is high voltage on the TX ANT. I expect 100 - 200 kV is > reachable with > some 'tricks' wellknown for power ingeneers. For example one > should avoid > free end of a wire with such a voltage. On should use > 'protecting rings' > on the ends. With voltage abt 100 kV seems to be posible use > not too high > antenna. Seems 20-30 m high well top loaded marconi designed > specially for > high voltage is adequate. Remember effective height of 60m > kite antenna > used in DK8KW experiment was 30m (if wire was absolutelly > vertical, does > it was?). With not too high voltage and not too large ANT > capacity 4.5 km > was reached. Another key problem is noise level on this freq. > Now we see > huge discrepancy on the noise level got from different > sourses. What is > the real noise level is not obvious now. Can it be much lower > time to > time? Experements to be usefull. Look at DK8KW web side where > 4.5 km > experiment is described. Waterfall background is too smooth. Whe= re > spherics are? This is why i expect RX sensetivity was not as > high as posible. One should remember 4.5 km is begining of the > wave zone > on 9 kHz. At distanses more then 4.5 km field decreases not > too fast with > distance. Another critical distance is abt 100 km where > 'waveguide' > propagation starts. At such distances one shold increase TX > ANT voltage > only in 3 times to reach distance 10 times more. Anyway Stefan's > experiment will be very intesesting. And i hope it will be not > the last > experiment. > > Regards, > Alexander/RA9MB > > > > Why is there such derision about experimentation?, I for one am looking=20 forward to the results of these tests. I am sure that comments like this= =20 from the UK do nothing to enhance our reputation among the greater=20 amateur community. Tim M0AFJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.207]) by air-di08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI083-eb684b7af6eb176; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 65685380002F0; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NhTPj-00068O-44 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:55 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NhTPi-00068F-9J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:54 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com ([209.85.218.214]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NhTPf-0003l9-Gj for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:54 +0000 Received: by bwz6 with SMTP id 6so3542393bwz.31 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:48:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=210kgoSiu6DGBF1AjPOlwBWHKCzbUmKYgneF+ibVZjE=; b=issc5WsWYh7KmTkn79kJrY+VRo4eBtmyDkJ5EnnVsdZBlUJel7ynxseOh4focSQk7I UNkbyK6Fy6WpAZ20PrelmYueHafspNnLirJwBvp9hg56yd14YTGv2AuRuVyl4seUGeim S4y2xW6YIwaedwnMyKh4sslL1o5C842S9jViA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=AZ24ZN+6q14FFX4HNutjjsdU11kQhiXsa0CAaplKw09pmuSlGHfZmHRWgiU7QOQ+Tv 265iJnVKYyl2QrUkN6zzyC9S0ALinzvssLnLLI48jSCUQCgIz6fcbVM7SERk78rIyho8 GqCBp9NYySzW5ZOYMEUhbFBsUdMOKrWf8kBWc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.135.153 with SMTP id n25mr743749bkt.156.1266349722839; Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:48:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> References: <006501caaf3b$53ddb350$0201a8c0@Clemens04> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:42 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d260.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cf4b7af6e901ff X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A follow up to this sage After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it must be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it. So I connected up and measured voltages. Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 - So how could it deliver 1kW plus... Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, got out the 'telephone exchang= e' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would give. Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800 or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a higher value= and I got 950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V). So it really was givi= ng more power out than it 'ought to' BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and in fact,= if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW. I'd used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf and forgot it. Enoug= h said. Anyway, tested the PA, and found it would go down to about 5MHz where the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs lost gain / efficiency. So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine, but of little use as a general HF amp. BUT, with suitable change of output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or 500kHz -= if a suitable PSU were to hand. That's where it sits now. Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other projects to get pushed of ft= he stack. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul wrote: > Andy,Rik, > > after thinking a while over the transformer of Andy's PA and referring= to > http://www.g4jnt.com/pamatch.gif > I'm sorry to say that > I'm still quite (say 99,9%) sure that it is a conventional 1:9 (Z) > transfomer. > > Here are some crucial points which exclude *absolutely* the above design > to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever). > 1.) Autotransformers provide no dc isolation, i.e. you have a dc path fr= om > the primary to secondary side. > *There is no such dc path here.* > 2.)In a bootstrap design the *braid* of one coax end is *connected *to= the > *center* > *conductor* at the start of the same coax (1:4) or of the next coax > section (1:9 or higher). > This is not the case in this design.*The center of the secondary is > nowhere connected* > *with a braid.* > ** > BTW there is no reason to worry about the theoretical 900W limit in line= ar > mode. > If the PA is slightly overdriven you get easily one 1dB more power on th= e > fundamental > frequency which is about 1133W so you have enough margin for losses of= the > low pass filter > losses etc. > It's very unlikely that this PA which was used as industrial RF heater > was designed to be superlinear. > > 73 > Clemens > DL4RAJ > > ** > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andy Talbot > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Cc:* ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: RE: PA matching oddity > > BINGO - Tnx Rik, thats it, convincing. Sorted > > So my thing IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) just as the calculation= s > said it needed to be, and is indeed, effectively, an auto transformer. > Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, but just configur= ed > with different reference points to confuse everyone. Your second referen= ce, > the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) gives the answer. > > Look at page 10, the 1:9 Ruthroff UnUn . With just two bits of coa= x, > which are then bootstrapped up on top of the input to give a 3:1 ratio= (for > 1:9 impedance). Add another turn, so three windings are bootstrapped= on > top of the primary, rearrange the grounding points and there, in all its > glory, is my mystery. > > The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA has = two > separate, non magnetically linked cores. This is is just normal push-pu= ll > HF PA practice, and being so normal in its concept, completely hides hid= es a > big real advantage - it enables the designer to float just whatever > ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbalanced operation, and= even > to provide DC isolation, Any conductor passing through the core allows= one > end to be completely Rf decoupled from the other end, so that's how bala= nced > operation is permitted with the basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper. > > On the same page, a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 > transformation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the > transmision line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapp= ed > on a torroid, it becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of HF antenna constructor= s. > A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept of a loop of= coax > giving one turn more than it appears to. > > It all falls out. > ... life is worth living again ... > ... can retire happy ... > > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > ... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ... > > On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe wrot= e: > >> Andy, >> >> have a look here : >> >> http://www.polyfet.com/HFE0503_Leong.pdf >> >> http://www.semelab.com/rf/documents/Push-Pull%20Circuits%20and%20Wideba= nd%20Transformers.pdf >> >> 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ >> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [ >> andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com] >> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10 >> *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com >> *Onderwerp:* LF: PA matching oddity >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei. > Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de > Version: 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 > 08:35:00 > > --0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A follow up to this sage=A0=A0
=A0
After much puzzling over the design, and comment here about how it mu= st be 3:1 teh only solution was to measure it.=A0=A0So I connected up and= measured voltages.=A0Indeed, it does turn out to be 3:1 -=A0=A0 So=A0=A0= how could it deliver 1kW plus...
=A0
Next, fitted the module to a big heatsink, =A0got out the 'teleph= one exchange' PSU (50V 25 A) and wound up the amp to the max it would= give.=A0=A0 Unfortunately the PSU current limited when supplying only 800= or so watts, but by winding teh PSU down to 44V, it current limited at a= higher value and I got=A0950 Watts before the PSU gave up (off 44V).=A0= =A0=A0 So it really was giving more power out than it 'ought to'
=A0
BUT, as Clemens mentioned I'd ignored the saturation element and= in fact, if used as a switching amp can give well over 1kW.=A0=A0 I'd= used this aspect in the 700W 137kHz Tx, http://www.g4jnt.com/137tx.pdf=A0 and forgot it.=A0=A0 Enoug= h said.
=A0
Anyway, tested the PA, and found=A0it would go down to about 5MHz whe= re the transformers began to give up, and up to about 20MHz where the FETs= lost gain / efficiency.=A0=A0 So as a 13.56MHz industrial unit its fine,= but of little use as a general HF amp.=A0=A0 BUT, with suitable change of= output transformer, could probably be persuaded to give 1.5kW on 137 or= 500kHz - if a suitable PSU were to hand.=A0 That's where it sits now.= =A0=A0 Experimentation done, and any further work can wait for other proje= cts to get pushed of fthe stack.
On 16 February 2010 19:07, Clemens Paul <cpaul@gmx.net> wrote:
Andy,Rik,
=A0
after thinking a while over the trans= former of Andy's PA and referri= ng to
I'm sorry to say that
I'm still quite (say 99,9%)=A0sur= e that it is=A0a conventional 1:9 (Z) transfomer.
=A0
Here are some crucial points which=A0= exclude *absolutely* the above design
to be an autotransformer,(1:16 or whatever).
1.) Autotransformers=A0provide no dc= isolation, i.e. you have a dc path from
the primary to secondary side.=
There is no such dc path here= .
2.)In a bootstrap design the = braid of=A0one coax end is connected to the center
conductor at the sta= rt of the same=A0 coax (1:4) or of the next=A0 coax section (1:9 or higher= ).
This is not the case in this design.<= strong>The center of the secondary is nowhere connected
with a braid.=
=A0
BTW there is no reason to worry about= the theoretical 900W limit in linear mode.
If the PA is slightly overdriven you= get easily=A0one 1dB more power on the fundamental
frequency which is about 1133W so you= have enough margin for losses of the low pass filter
losses etc.
It's very unlikely that this PA= which was used as industrial RF= heater
was designed to be superlinear.
=A0
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10= :43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: RE: PA matching od= dity

BINGO -=A0 Tnx Rik, thats=A0it, convincing.=A0=A0Sorted
=A0
So my thing=A0=A0IS 1:4 turns ratio, (1:16 Z ratio) =A0just as the=A0= calculations said it needed to be,=A0and is indeed, effectively, an auto= transformer.=A0 Otherwise known as a bootstrapped coaxial transformer, bu= t just configured with different reference points=A0to confuse everyone.= =A0Your=A0second reference, the Semelab paper, (UKuW see below) =A0gives= the answer.=A0=A0
=A0
Look at=A0page 10,=A0=A0=A0the 1:9 Ruthroff=A0=A0 UnUn .=A0=A0=A0With= just=A0two bits of coax, which are then bootstrapped up on top of the inp= ut to give a 3:1 ratio (for 1:9 impedance).=A0=A0 Add another turn, so thr= ee windings are=A0 bootstrapped on top of the primary, rearrange the groun= ding points and there, in all its glory, is my mystery.=A0=A0=A0
=A0
The reference / grounding points can be shifted as the mosfet PA=A0= =A0has=A0 two separate, non magnetically linked=A0cores.=A0 This is is jus= t=A0normal push-pull HF PA practice, and being so=A0normal in its concept,= completely hides hides=A0a big=A0real advantage - it enables the designer= to float just whatever ternainals need to be floated for balanced / unbal= anced operation, and even to provide DC isolation,=A0=A0 Any conductor pas= sing through the core allows one end to be completely Rf=A0decoupled from= the other end, so that's how balanced operation is permitted with the= basic Ruthrof design shown in the paper.
=A0
On the same page,=A0a single length of coax is shown giving 1:2 trans= formation by the same bootstrapping arrangement, and when the transmision= line is shown as a twisted pair rather than coax, then wrapped on a torro= id, it=A0becomes the 1:4 balun beloved of=A0HF antenna=A0constructors.=A0= =A0 A natural progression that helps illustrate the concept=A0 of=A0 a loo= p of coax giving one turn more than it appears to.
=A0
It all falls out.=A0
... life is worth living again ...
... can retire happy ...
=A0
... now, next job, how to sort out the world financial crisis ...
On 9 February 2010 19:53, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Andy,<= /font>
=A0
have a look here :
=A0
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T<= /font>
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@googlem= ail.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 9 februari 2010 18:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org; ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: LF: PA matching oddity

=A0


Eingehende eMail ist virenfrei.
Von AVG =FCberpr=FCft - www.avg.de
Version:= 9.0.733 / Virendatenbank: 271.1.1/2677 - Ausgabedatum: 02/09/10 08:35:00=


--0015174c192c642c92047fbd054f-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.30]) by air-mf03.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF034-8be44b6daa8311f; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:44:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 53E3C3800038C; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndogf-0005Mz-JL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ndogf-0005Mq-8b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from nina.ucs.mun.ca ([134.153.232.76]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ndogc-0005aY-LE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:43:17 +0000 Received: from plato.ucs.mun.ca (plato.ucs.mun.ca [134.153.232.153]) by nina.ucs.mun.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o16Hh6vf003537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:13:06 -0330 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:13:06 -0330 (NST) From: jcraig@mun.ca X-X-Sender: jcraig@plato.ucs.mun.ca To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> Message-ID: References: <1bd42.1332e555.389e2ee5@aol.com> <4B6D0E13.3070200@online.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA is come back on LF Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411e4b6daa817ec2 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ---1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Nicolas, Jean-Pierre Ko and Marus, and group. It is indeed a pleasure to receive your reports of the transmissions on 137.777 kHz again. The TX was the old xtal class E used in the early 2200m experiments almost 7 years ago, running 70 watts, 1.4 amps to a 100m wire at 10m height and should be QRV again tonight. 73 and many thanks=20 Joe VO1NA On Sat, 6 Feb 2010, "Jean-Pierre M=E9r=E9 (F1AFJ)" wrote: > Hello Joe , > Happy to find this signal which missed us so much, > welcome on 777 (your frequency is always free) > 73 qro Jean-Pierre f1afj > > F4DTL@aol.com a =E9crit : >> Hello Joe nice signal on 137777. >> Welcome !!! >> F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP >>=20 >> RX: PM-SDR >> Ant: Wellbrook LFL1010 >>=20 >> _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) >>=20 > > ---1719232024-1369169576-1265478186=:28812-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.224]) by air-me01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINME014-8ba34b830b9c100; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BEEDC38000117; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:56:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBX-00065y-Av for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:27 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjhBW-00065p-P1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:26 +0000 Received: from web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.131]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjhBU-0006NT-Lw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:26 +0000 Received: (qmail 21241 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266879318; bh=Cujb8Hk4tZidn6HSjQFWO+mnjS3nlGWWs2qf0YuSwOs=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XYwkdfkBAwBG7Q3/V1UxZTU7UDq0C4XJsB1ZSS/9H/Qmq1wMT82J5cUNIRrm4rmsI2+3WPt3cM4kXQPL7AZ+PyznuzlLYHxHZGkug42a4ZOijHgAl1qKkLSAIkl5M35vOA3NOS96EEPInyPYhVKuoKNBYCHg1TIePck4XYGt+Ys= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cqZnfkpjzdFASUwObPdzM9ikKD41Mgr5VoGj95exos7iCRaO+LBociuiRaXzKBgcvaA5uScpGl97W+RnOt4LB/wSa9sbkQ5WFIeVwv2GX7mn6DMCwl0e6ODM/qWRZWFMnY3a6UYi7gLCLavYo+XfKyzT0bca715YN7lnYXy0sfU=; Message-ID: <792299.21067.qm@web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: rpXcXQ4VM1ngEwF1XHrKXJAtiqoflOS5Ynluw4hKqboantDGOpedyY8vqdmoC2hUKgRhGksrAgP9XFryAN6a6dNLgbAgWh9vc0eIjy771pkuj4KjwgQSGMvtuelo0393HwEKIekZxXce22slxyqj5m95zAhRiOwAWW0VtDpdFICFxbM0Hh3mAnhjWcLwz3WUv73iIaA_JWmD8JCWc8X0UQWCvUGc4o0931w7coI0Kh89ayYogP8hd.sfiijC1gkcK0BGBzrBWwuZbgVCrkr_yw6g1grwEL9eT7uUdLsSWyJlY_5arR35ILPrKpKStmiS Received: from [213.122.36.154] by web86506.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:55:18 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m228.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40e04b830b997341 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Apologies Andy my memory is playing tricks (make a note ...it's an age thi= ng !! :) ).....maybe it was somone else.=20 On an admin point when I used to sit on a liaison committee for PMR, we he= ard that the Govt isues "free licences" so that it can retain control, set= conditons of the operation, and can of course withdraw them if it gets "e= mbarassing". I think this was the case at the time with SRBR and the later= misnamed PMR446.=20 I subscribe to Bear's philosophy too (no I never said that....I must have= been misquoted) I also believe in "Dont ask cos the easiest and safest an= swer for a Civil Serpent is 'no' " !! Nice comment from Alex on near-field....long time since we heard from you= last Alex or maybe I dont read the group enough. Best Wishes Alan G3NYK --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Andy Talbot wrote: > From: Andy Talbot > Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 20:45 > My thoughts precisely. > =A0 > The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker > of Athens in 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently > Douglas Bader > =A0 > =A0 > As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for > 8.9kHz =A0a few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity > 'after the event', whereas if I'd just gone > ahead and done it, people may have whinged on > principle. >=20 > =A0 > Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even > arranged a three way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom > themselves,=A0and=A0a representative of the=A0percveived users > of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the Spherics > lightning monitoring people. >=20 > =A0 > The latter were quite open, and said "just go > ahead",=A0 they'd see if there would be a problem (I > was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure > they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go away and consult > on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all > stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 > I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon > construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG > ground loop. >=20 > =A0 >=20 > Andy > www.g4jnt.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 22 February 2010 20:19, John > Bruce McCreath > wrote: >=20 > Hello > LFers, >=20 > I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this > side of the pond. =A0As it is very likely that the only > listeners >=20 > down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and > do it. =A0I have always found that it's better to ask > for forgiveness than to ask for permission! >=20 > 73, J.B., VE3EAR >=20 > LowFER Beacon "EAR" >=20 > 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.76]) by air-dc04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDC041-86004b8679fd28a; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:24:13 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 97018380000C3; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkdgE-000459-ON for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkdgE-000450-Cl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkdgC-0004wI-Ck for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:23:02 +0000 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 25 Feb 2010 13:22:53 -0000 Received: from 188-194-84-187-dynip.superkabel.de (EHLO Uwe) [188.194.84.187] by mail.gmx.net (mp060) with SMTP; 25 Feb 2010 14:22:53 +0100 X-Authenticated: #9373712 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/swyIiMDvstwXJ70aiYnJAgiUhMazT4NhZ1csemP 7LYwQ6gNzd7KHk Message-ID: From: "Uwe Wensauer" To: References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:22:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.56000000000000005 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.36 Subject: LF: Re: VLF test signals? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404c4b8679fb433e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Russisches Navigationssystem ALPHA Siehe auch SDR RX http://websdr.pa3weg.nl/ 73 Uwe, dk1kq ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:58 PM Subject: LF: VLF test signals? Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the 10kH= z=20 range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these transm= itters=20 are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is receiving in= this=20 frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the SNR he is achievi= ng?=20 There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have nothing done= with LF=20 and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to activate/motivate them for so= me=20 tests, to increase the RXers density. Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i will= rather=20 be active at the transmitters front now ;-) Stefan/DK7FC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.141]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDF054-5ef54b696d52391; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:34:26 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-me05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AB01D38000219; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NcePX-0003bm-G1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NcePX-0003bd-0s for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcePV-0007EL-8R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:46 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100203123239.PNKZ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:32:39 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NcePP-00089o-BI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:32:39 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <02E3EF3F48994AB88A1489042CE7EA02@JimPC> <284438.50947.qm@web87001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD5@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <00a101caa471$beaf7530$1bb2a8c0@vp2fc459c0ffcf> <20100203082523.6D257F3862@smtps02.kuleuven.be> <003001caa4b1$c5b831b0$0217aac0@desktop> <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:32:38 -0000 Message-ID: <006b01caa4cc$f9013510$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <002a01caa4c3$28d86a10$8d01a8c0@JAYDELL> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: Acqkw12iTNvcRpSsRCWNZNXvLFsGrwACXncA X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=U1kdJ43tQ9_B4crrz94A:9 a=DtCB8zGhLDF4tpuFvLkA:7 a=ZJxIx6XLcthXA7yb7_yMwjLVEtwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=si9q_4b84H0A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=OJmSC9DZbHptmT43:21 a=BQKA74t12U2OE4a0:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: S x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d608d4b696d50076b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Jay Thanks for this. Will do. Have PMd you with further details With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of jrusgrove@comcast.net Sent: 03 February 2010 11:22 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: QRP on 500kHz Jim Have been looking for your WSPR signal whenever you're active. The lowest ERP from EU received here so far was +20 dBm from G0NBD...about a dozen spots over several nights. Distance was 5198 km. The spots were in the -22 to -25 SNR range so reception of a station that is 6 dB below G0NBD should be possible. Please transmit whenever you can - there are at least several stations on this side of the pond that routinely keep an eye on 502.4 kHz. Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cowburn" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:17 AM Subject: LF: RE: QRP on 500kHz > Rik/LF > > That too has been my experience. With 10W out (approx 50-100mw erp) I can > work 1000km stations on WSPR with SNRs of around -20dB to -25dB. If I > switch to low (1W so approx 5mW or less) I can still be copied by M0LMH at > 200km and John PG in the Shetlands (916km) at -29dB, also LA3EQ (800km) and > others in D/F. > > Similarly in the recent dry spell I was getting around 12 to 15w into > antenna, now it is wet that has dropped to 10W. Sub-optimally I am using a > silver birch tree as the support for my inverted L and will likely be > suffering losses due to the wire running close to the trunk and then over a > bough and out thru the branches. A job for summer is to use a better > support away from trees! > > Curiously my mid range reports are the ones that disappear on QRP and the > local ground wave signals collapse > > Obviously it has a lot to do with the noise at the Rx end too, if not more > so than the output at the tx end > > My best dx to date on wspr mode is 1200km out to Lubos when he set up a > quiet RX location but TF/SV/SP would be good. I'm sure that with right > condx and 10w there is enough in the link budget at 50mw to 100mW to get to > 2000km or so. > > If I can reiterate a plea from Roger G3XBM, if there are any 500KHz > enthusiasts reading this who are in the range 1500km to 2500km from IO/JO > squares, even if only on Rx then let us know when you are monitoring and we > can see just how far more modest stations can get with QRo/QRP/QRPp. > > > > > With best regards > > > Jim > > > Dr. James Cowburn G7NKS IO92ub > > Icom 706mk2G, 10W inverted L 6m/30m > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Rik Strobbe > Sent: 03 February 2010 08:26 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: QRP on 500kHz > > In the past I had noticed that my antenna detuned several kHz during rain. > As it was raining last night (not a bit) I took the chance to do some > antenna measurements using low power (25W input, about 15W output). > Due to the bad SWR the antenna current was only 0.3A, estimated ERP about > 20mW. > At one moment I unintentionally started a CQ instead of giving a > carrier (hitting the wrong button on the keyer) but decided to let it > run while noting the measurement results in my "lab book". > To my surprise I was called by Finbar (EI0CF) and had a nice QSO with > him, receiving a 559 report. > Condx on 500 last night seemed average to me. > Conclusion: with a few Watt in a modest antenna (lazy-L, 11m high and > 25m long) one can work 1000km (or more) in CW on 500kHz. > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.208]) by air-md07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD071-8b8c4b80e2fa2e0; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:38:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3DE6A3800009E; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:38:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj6Mp-0005ZC-1t for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nj6Mo-0005Z3-KM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:38 +0000 Received: from defout.telus.net ([204.209.205.55]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nj6Mk-00017Y-TI for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:38 +0000 Received: from edmwaa02.telusplanet.net ([75.157.175.54]) by priv-edmwes73.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.00 201-2186-121-20061213) with ESMTP id <20100221073631.MDRC4904.priv-edmwes73.telusplanet.net@edmwaa02.telusplanet.net> for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:36:31 -0700 Received: from [192.168.1.67] (d75-157-175-54.bchsia.telus.net [75.157.175.54]) by edmwaa02.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with ESMTP id 3D401347ABACC4B1 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:36:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B80E27F.30302@telus.net> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:36:31 +0000 From: Scott Tilley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: SDR RX ideas for grabber... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d04b80e2f9282c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Hi All I was wondering if there is a simple solution that is fairly well documented for converting a softrock type receiver over to 2200m use? Any other suggestions on how to get a SDR on 2200m with a minimum of effort would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Scott From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.28]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMA023-b4f54b69d1e52c6; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:43:33 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7A9C33800019C; Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncl7B-0005x7-BQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:17 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ncl7A-0005wy-TH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:16 +0000 Received: from mx40.mail.ru ([94.100.176.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ncl77-0002Ly-U0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:42:16 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=62708 helo=EFREMOV) by mx40.mail.ru with asmtp id 1Ncl71-000Dfi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:42:07 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001e01caa508$f7157360$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <12077821.1264946261487.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ACF@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25D51A6FE646D5B8D9D37C87EA6BBC@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AD4@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <0A1CC2C5367040E284D30F87A4967547@lindavideo> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1ADD@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:41:26 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: test signal wanted Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601c4b69d1e323e4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Stefan, >> Please, could someone send a test signal (such as CQ...) in QRSS/DFCW on 137.7? I built up the active E-field antenna at the >> new qth in Heidelberg (city) and want to try the performance. It is just 2m up and just 6m beside the house but as you know, >> i am optimistic... >> >> tnx es 73! >> >> Stefan/DK7FC >> >> PS: The first time i have Internet at home and so i can forward screenshots spontan... ;-) ~137730 dfcw4 "TEST RN3AGC" :) ~200 W 73 Andrey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.10]) by air-mf10.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINMF101-8bfd4b6e81f0370; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:03:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B493C38000152; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne329-0000mW-Hs for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:25 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ne328-0000mN-Uw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:24 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ne327-0007ZM-6m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:24 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207090217.JUMJ4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:02:17 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100207090217.XQZ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:02:17 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:02:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B6E8190.12921.437089A@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=oWqlOOYPfsSEwESni7wA:9 a=47Ket77aCb0mrLG6WUCf_1Fqs28A:4 a=gmBXsakOPyV2O1YJ9SEA:9 a=MdMqCQolhZec9jNJ9i0A:7 a=q4ZLZaatkKmuSa_TX8x1tGxvAAkA:4 a=G0ln1n_d9KZFfflVf5EA:9 a=9ZAIoK-SHaOVtYsho2AdR_fZjg4A:4 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=as5XgbGqsDzByOpY:18 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; boundary=Message-Boundary-12302 Subject: LF: VO1NA X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54546 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410a4b6e81ee7141 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --Message-Boundary-12302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Description: Mail message body Good signal from Joe last night, peaking at dawn here. See attached pic. Mike, G3XDV ========== --Message-Boundary-12302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: Attachment information. The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: VO1NA-7Feb2010.jpg Date: 7 Feb 2010, 8:47 Size: 3800 bytes. 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from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjgyI-0005nm-IL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:46 +0000 Received: from web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.121]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjgyI-0006D4-E7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:46 +0000 Received: (qmail 45450 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1266878500; bh=pK0+qx65FrCIpPyE8JSsjnlzyPm/k8ss/BJ9CvWoIJs=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cCeR+up2KdDtQCspmIHm1m9lDR9TwNPdj4dP0sOJOx1ruplPdlH35rkcJXapbEfrEO+qwHb192RUFfWNVq/wTxTg9i4X0WmmYd1VNl/EYrbsdKrh70R4xe8YaFPuTQLQ4UDPfvdG1X1OMmAGbNA5Nr6iJ+CBCSg5QHqqZ+DSnpM= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iyNWlBByznZVNoIbr9DoRG/jK3MHnrfQNihNfVXNf+/9oWOts+KYXZ+F0tX6VZjHsLHD0rKA0Dyi3UjO2uZfvCDPy2vjMBPsywNJlUHodCOnY4fYjtzytZjKSWGdHfOv9MtQHfaIVNKh2YQ9MSxRYrT5g2DUxuaiPxvBLdi16fA=; Message-ID: <611880.45393.qm@web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: J4sA97gVM1kJxffyiQw42CN1tjGPa5t21n40aJdDZoD2CV65V_NvBJO3fcfQIFKiy4QwCbmOiLnjxBwcYeSHlglfNnGqtS9Lu3LLXNQhjp7xWAH577XtBRbhYAiLVe787tsy32NrLfqXFolKzwOpMlDlKgfCd.VI1tyPYDB96rhGWPIHc6_oDSuBPINi9IHwBA2l_OpzFbHWvclA6WIvJQlj829fyHLacTz927VNec6kpH3sTcp5eirmnt3zjB2eZTcCGVj48ZtOUrw- Received: from [86.130.73.141] by web28101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:40 +0000 (GMT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002221356n4f423789ua3b11369dfb4fe15@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m238.1 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d411b4b83085a4b09 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 Trouble is Roger, we as a nation can not afford the subscription......;-)) 73 es GL petefmt --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Roger Lapthorn wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:56 It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe already Rik.=A0 Some= right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-) 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe wrote= : I guess the European alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainla= nd Europe as counterweight ;-) Rik =A0ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk] Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24 Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Onderwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Everest summits and fed from base camp below? =A0Couldn't our friends in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dip= ole? 73, Chris G4OKW --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 =20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Trouble is Roger, we as a nation can not afford the subscription.....= .;-))

73 es GL petefmt

--- On Mon, 22/2/10, Roger Lapthor= n <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.c= om>
Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g
Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 21:56

It's hard enough keeping Britain attached to Europe= already Rik.  Some right wing politicians would cut the feeder :-)
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 2010 21:30, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wro= te:
I guess the Europea= n alternative would be Britain as a radiator and mainland Europe as counte= rweight ;-)

Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

_________________________= _______________
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group= @blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org] namens Chris Trayner [C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk]Verzonden: maandag 22 februari 2010 18:24
Aan: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'
On= derwerp: RE: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz

> All we need is a wire strung between K2 and Evere= st summits and fed from
base camp below?

 Couldn't our frie= nds in NZ drive North Island and South Island as a dipole?

73,
C= hris G4OKW



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http= ://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678  =    ISWL G11088

=20 --0-1475460226-1266878500=:45393-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.82]) by air-ma08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMA084-b5334b89c3c9d3; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:53 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 47FA0380000AB; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NlXjf-0005P5-Pf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NlXjf-0005Ow-4l for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.21]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NlXjd-0007lF-5M for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:14:19 +0000 Received: from BLU146-W29 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s10.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:14:09 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.216.198] From: Laurence KL1X To: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:14:08 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> References: ,<91FFB5D65F3547FFA086D396DBFAEFA7@White>,<55A21536-8446-4BA1-82E6-0E42D39033D6@leeds.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2010 01:14:09.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[54A30660:01CAB813] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_" Subject: RE: LF: Loran A and C X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40524b89c3c87587 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Markus et al thanks - I did another middle of the day recording usi= ng an omni eprobe -=20 =20 http://kl1x.com/alaskaloran0042z.wav 28th Feb 10 - Excuse some of the com= mon mode noise burbles.=20 =20 Unfortuately I leave for Oklahoma in a few hours so this will be it for a= while =20 Laurence WE2 xpq kl1X G4dma =20 > From: C.Trayner@leeds.ac.uk > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C >=20 > Dear Markus, Lawrence and others, >=20 >=20 > Thanks for your interesting comments on this theme. >=20 > > The slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar= rates, walking through one another in time. >=20 > I think I can hear two effects which might be described as phasing. >=20 > One is due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse= group rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chitt= ering sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit" and= the pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of= the way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hea= r "chitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just befo= re half way through the recording. >=20 > The other effect is a change in the relative strengths of higher and low= er audio frequencies. You can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through= to nearly the end, where the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presum= ably this is cancellation in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though= the treble will be represented by both the parts just above 90kHz and tho= se just below 110 kHz, so presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this= is caused by frequency-selective fading, presumably what Lawrence describ= ed as the "musical sounds they made as sky waves did their thing". Could= someone more knowledgable than me comment on that? >=20 > * Unless Lawrence was demodulating as SSB, in which case he would see on= ly one half of the spectrum. >=20 >=20 > For those who have deleted the original message, the recording is at > > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav >=20 >=20 > 73, > Chris G4OKW >=20 > ----------------------- > Dr Chris Trayner > School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, > The University of Leeds, > Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom > Tel: +44 113 34 32053 > Fax: +44 113 34 32032 >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/=3D --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris  Markus et al thanks - I did another middle of the day rec= ording using an omni eprobe -
 
http://kl1x.com/alaskalor= an0042z.wav  28th Feb 10 - Excuse some of the common mode noise= burbles. 
 
Unfortuately I leave for Oklahoma in a few hours so this will be it= for a while
 
Laurence WE2 xpq  kl1X  G4dma
 
> From: C.Tra= yner@leeds.ac.uk
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Date: Sa= t, 20 Feb 2010 11:21:05 +0000
> Subject: Re: LF: Loran A and C
&g= t;
> Dear Markus, Lawrence and others,
>
>
> Th= anks for your interesting comments on this theme.
>
> > Th= e slow phasing effect is caused by pulsegroups of these very similar rates= , walking through one another in time.
>
> I think I can hear= two effects which might be described as phasing.
>
> One is= due to the different GRIs (Group Repetition Intervals, i.e. pulse group= rates) which Markus describes. This appears a a change in the chittering= sound. When the groups coincide you hear it as "chit chit chit" and the= pulsiness is more pronounced: you can hear this about 1/5 to 1/4 of the= way through the recording. When they fit in each others' gaps you hear "c= hitchitchit" and the sound seems smoother: you can hear this just before= half way through the recording.
>
> The other effect is a ch= ange in the relative strengths of higher and lower audio frequencies. You= can hear this from about 4/5 of the way through to nearly the end, where= the sound cycles between treble and bass. Presumably this is cancellation= in some part of the 90-110 kHz spectrum, though the treble will be repres= ented by both the parts just above 90kHz and those just below 110 kHz, so= presumably it is subtler than that*. Maybe this is caused by frequency-se= lective fading, presumably what Lawrence described as the "musical sounds= they made as sky waves did their thing". Could someone more knowledgable= than me comment on that?
>
> * Unless Lawrence was demodulat= ing as SSB, in which case he would see only one half of the spectrum.
&= gt;
>
> For those who have deleted the original message, the= recording is at
> > http://kl1x.com/loranalaska.wav
>
= >
> 73,
> Chris G4OKW
>
> -------------------= ----
> Dr Chris Trayner
> School of Electronic & Electrica= l Engineering,
> The University of Leeds,
> Leeds LS2 9JT, Uni= ted Kingdom
> Tel: +44 113 34 32053
> Fax: +44 113 34 32032>
>
>

Your E-mail= and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now. =3D --_35d7ee0e-038a-4eb9-8305-731163d1b004_-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-mc08.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC084-a98e4b840368391; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:33:44 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id C88F538000516; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxgd-000266-DW for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njxgc-00025x-RN for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:38 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njxga-0005A0-BB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:38 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1NGWX98019801 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:34 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B12@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems Thread-Index: Acq0nlgrgPGVQm5OS1ydzGOJ574hIwAALueg References: <894020.13023.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.23.161221 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B" Subject: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz_grounding systems X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/55409 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4b84035b317e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Alan, but what is the difference between a ground stake and the alu foi= l, when talking about the resistive losses? That would be also a poor qual= ity ohmic connection, isn't it? And think about how many meters of stake= you need if you want to have the same C that will be achieved by 5m*30cm= Alu foil? How much time and work for a short test. =20 Perhaps you know my /p radial for 137kHz: It is a simple copper plate of= 0,2m*25m, so 5m^2. With that configuration i reach <30 Ohm overall losses= . My coil losses are 13 Ohm, radiation resistance is 0,8 Ohm, wire losses= abt 1 Ohm and soil conductivity abt 6mS. This radial is just rolled out= on a stony field on the hill, 350m ASL (see my picture @ qrz.com). While= others bury 100s of m of cable and run 10s of meters of earth rods into= the ground i achieve earth losses of less than 15 Ohm with just such a pl= ate. In /p i do not have the nerves and time to roll out 100s of m of radi= als so i was happy to find, that this a good solution too. In my theory,= it is necessary to get a good connection to the ground by a high coupling= capacity and that means a high area metallic electrode close above ground= . Although the area is so much concentrated at the feed point, the results= are so good. So i expect that this may be a good solution on VLF as well.= =20 Trying a cheep alu foil for the household, less than 2EUR for 30m*0,3m sho= uld be worth for everyone to try if earth losses could be decreased :-) Al= most no money and/or time is needed :-) =20 73, Stefan =20 =20 ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 16:31 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Hi Stefan, my comment was related to the fact that if you support the foil= a few inches above the ground that will be fine but you will get a much= smaller capacitance. If you bury it or place it on the ground you are rat= her making a poor quality ohmic connection (lotsa loss!) to the ground and= it would be better to ground the end of the wire to a good copper spike= like a "half loop". It is also quite difficult to make a good connection= to the foil, with a big capacitance there will be a lot of current flowin= g (hopefully :-)) ). If you use an HV capacitor you would connect one terminal to the end of th= e wire and the other to a ground stake. Rik had some comments on this conf= iguration at 136, but I dont think he ever tried it in practice. Alan G3NYK --- On Tue, 23/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:05 > Hi Alan, >=20 > Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be > neglectible, compared to the ground losses. And one has the > advantege to reach a high C that is easy to adjust/modify > and cheep and that has no overvoltage and heating problems. > Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same, in > principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a > lossy dielectricum? ;-) >=20 > Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, > of course, but it may be difficult to get proper C at those > voltages. And if we are talking about connecting the end of > a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the next question is: > Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A coax, > say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the > inner line. But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it > back to the shack and connecting to ground would mean not to > use the soil as the conductor any more and throwing the coax > just on the bottom would be nonsense since then, one could > just take a standard wire which is principally almost the > same like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would > mean to require 100s of m of cable to get the same C. And in > such a configuration a high C to ground is essential since > one wants to have a practicable small L for resonance (to > handle the losses). >=20 > Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs > just a high C with less voltage (probably <1kV). > If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal > section and make a rectangular loop out of it, the XL will > be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then a C of abt 1=B5F will > resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm losses > will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no > problem to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is > much easier since no L and maybe even no R transformation is > necessary. And with a horizontal section of <50m, the > increased loop area when using the ground/soil may be not > really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with > a high R and/or less Q... >=20 >=20 > Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell > his ideas. Markus? Go on! ;-) >=20 > Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > > > Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I > worry that this will form a lossy capacitor because the > dielectric a think film of ali oxide will break down in > places at this voltage and also there is the inknown of the > contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can > be a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as > a capacitor in an HV pulse generator many years ago and > though the spec is 6kV it certainly survived 15kV with no > burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed this format > at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either > of us did any tests. > > I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative > old TV EHT type?? > > Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a > lot less to carry if you are operating "portable" > > Alan G3NYK ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAB4A5.CDBC1E5B Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiMQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAHwAAAFZMRl84Ljc5IGtIel9ncm91 bmRpbmcgc3lzdGVtcwDOCgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAXABEAIAAiAAIATwEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIAFwAR ACAAIgACAE8BAQmAAQAhAAAAQzVGNEIyN0I5NTQ4QTQ0NTlCQkNBRUE1OTAyQTk3ODMASgcBA5AG ALwfAAA4AAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAWx68zaW0ygEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAA Yz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1ILTEwMDIyMzE2MzIzNFotMTAyNQAAAB4ASQAB AAAAHQAAAFJlOiBBVzogQVc6IExGOiBWTEZfOC43OSBrSHoAAAAAQABOAIDUc1WdtMoBHgBaAAEA 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MAILINMF013-8bcb4b83f58c27a; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:34:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 2A4C838000230; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:33:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwk7-0001a7-Hm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njwk7-0001Zx-2g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: from web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([217.146.188.133]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njwk5-0004P8-3H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:32:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 14144 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=s1024; t=1266939117; bh=9SEwEAVHpOGLH34C8kHLmhZbloCDomQRWF+gP1axIck=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wQhk0Jk4RQNjf/fIfO35AwKQkuMLt1bUS3GgCR7qoXCknAh+5kvkXuct21xJXHLFzG1NLZZFSMi6LqGee2Lg18ZjyYVzz0LFGsoWp2+iy1Dk+Vdevv1rl57qVIqVhiCaNXp2BmXsJPK7a8kry4TxJa0g7OFbeUIY4j0t6PxmjCw= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1c3eGMMvLq38SdEEunJSi4S6U77+jtVIId3m5fAWhxk1u4PmQmXI4w6AlLQplnI3EqLeTDSgoFs1HLSBBqcbL50QuUs3kURf9knTfc2d67BVOlT63byF8H4Ih5YMM7Ei62YZNmQ5ZRs6g60plc1dCIqcGWXaOMgc/pO1C39Df7c=; Message-ID: <894020.13023.qm@web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jKJ6o9AVM1l4mSzV8PqN9.Td3oWyztLdZADZbEHnexEnfx2YfzaqFq90AMq2D9ksgCuL9zc_AOzxj99rRuWnZxuLKNHsdSx6f5eFyLDMm_mx6fcas7EuSY_TkB2brFgWgUHRsVGHfNkdz5lUqT.wsHpEX7mE9HgY3u0bOnx35fIYKD4uZCNUcwhjgxEhIH_3dglQaAPatGaUiidWrZ3ohzfVMcRPznbRXKb5Gpdj_bcVIjfgo19Fq_ip5ocCR9UuSdEMOeNRNNeMGO92399je69cckd9oUCu8PPskZIZ_RFeCLqGmaf.YFXYWlOCHbm1aJBt4zst.j4eUYdjzJXc6SNcncpp2h0mEg0- Received: from [213.122.20.214] by web86508.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 GMT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.2.12 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:57 +0000 (GMT) From: ALAN MELIA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B11@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m203.2 ; domain : btinternet.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104b83f5325783 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hi Stefan, my comment was related to the fact that if you support the foil= a few inches above the ground that will be fine but you will get a much= smaller capacitance. If you bury it or place it on the ground you are rat= her making a poor quality ohmic connection (lotsa loss!) to the ground and= it would be better to ground the end of the wire to a good copper spike= like a "half loop". It is also quite difficult to make a good connection= to the foil, with a big capacitance there will be a lot of current flowin= g (hopefully :-)) ). If you use an HV capacitor you would connect one terminal to the end of th= e wire and the other to a ground stake. Rik had some comments on this conf= iguration at 136, but I dont think he ever tried it in practice. Alan G3NYK --- On Tue, 23/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote= : > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > Subject: AW: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Tuesday, 23 February, 2010, 15:05 > Hi Alan, > =20 > Well, i expect the oxide film losses of the foil should be > neglectible, compared to the ground losses. And one has the > advantege to reach a high C that is easy to adjust/modify > and cheep and that has no overvoltage and heating problems. > Aren't the radials of a LF vertical not almost the same, in > principal? I mean, one electrode of a HV capacitor with a > lossy dielectricum? ;-) > =20 > Using a HV capacitor or coax cable is also a good choice, > of course, but it may be difficult to get proper C at those > voltages. And if we are talking about connecting the end of > a inv L antenna to ground (here: soil) the next question is: > Where do you connect the second electrode of your C? A coax, > say RG213 may be connected to the antenna wire with the > inner line. But where do you connect the screen? Bringing it > back to the shack and connecting to ground would mean not to > use the soil as the conductor any more and throwing the coax > just on the bottom would be nonsense since then, one could > just take a standard wire which is principally almost the > same like aluminium foil. Using such a simple wire would > mean to require 100s of m of cable to get the same C. And in > such a configuration a high C to ground is essential since > one wants to have a practicable small L for resonance (to > handle the losses). > =20 > Therefore i had the idea just to try a real loop that needs > just a high C with less voltage (probably <1kV).=20 > If we assume a inv L of 10m hight and 50m horizontal > section and make a rectangular loop out of it, the XL will > be in the region of 15 Ohm (?). Then a C of abt 1=B5F will > resonate the loop. Applying 100W and assuming 2 Ohm losses > will produce abt 7A and a voltage of 750V above the C, no > problem to find such a C :-) Starting with a closed loop is > much easier since no L and maybe even no R transformation is > necessary. And with a horizontal section of <50m, the > increased loop area when using the ground/soil may be not > really much more, but with the disadvantage to need a L with > a high R and/or less Q... > =20 > =20 > Markus/DF6NM has also good ideas but i do not want to tell > his ideas. Markus? Go on! ;-) > =20 > Stefan/DK7FC >=20 > ________________________________ >=20 > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > im Auftrag von ALAN MELIA > Gesendet: Di 23.02.2010 13:31 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Stefan, I am not sure about your aluminium foil idea. I > worry that this will form a lossy capacitor because the > dielectric a think film of ali oxide will break down in > places at this voltage and also there is the inknown of the > contact with the ground. I would rather use some UR67 it can > be a length unsuitable for real feeder work (I uses coax as > a capacitor in an HV pulse generator many years ago and > though the spec is 6kV it certainly survived 15kV with no > burns though the dielectric. Rik and I discussed this format > at length many years ago for 136kHz but I dont think either > of us did any tests. >=20 > I would suggest an HV capacitor might be the alternative > old TV EHT type?? >=20 > Actually grounding the remote ends is a lot easier and a > lot less to carry if you are operating "portable" >=20 > Alan G3NYK >=20 > --- On Mon, 22/2/10, Stefan Sch=E4fer > wrote: >=20 > > From: Stefan Sch=E4fer > > Subject: AW: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Monday, 22 February, 2010, 23:36 > > Rik, Alan, > >=20 > > I think we think about the same: using the inv-L as a > > vertical loop by using the ground. > >=20 > > Wouldn't it be easier to use a aluminium foil to get > proper > > C (to ground), especially when talking about high > voltages > > and high currents? Just covered with some soil and > easy to > > adjust/modify... > >=20 > > Stefan > > > > ________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.80]) by air-da04.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDA042-86144b8a763531e; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:57:09 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D94C438000084; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:57:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nljca-0004tC-GJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nljca-0004t3-5Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NljcZ-0007nH-E6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:48 +0000 Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100228135537.MPTX10950.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:37 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.22.242.219]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.2.02.00.01 201-2161-120-102-20060912) with ESMTP id <20100228135537.PYWO2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:37 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:55:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4B8A75D1.12660.2EE0DFA@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> In-reply-to: References: , X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=ZtHxNT4mZm3rCuM0SmWmgWxeBwJsziC8EqOrwwVkrhA= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=voSlNcsmpFAHsT1crycA:9 a=TmRy5l9xvA6nUyXLoveOxjx-dlwA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: WPF Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40504b8a7633063e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 It would certainly encourage Eu DX activity if there were more distant grabbers monitoring the Eu waterhole around 136.320kHz. It is also a pity that W3EEE's excellent DCF39 monitor seems to be QRT now. If all of the grabbers monitor the 137.77kHz slot it is very tempting for Eu DXers to use that frequency and cause QRM to those checking for US / Asia DX. Mike, G3XDV ========== > I have tried to convince Ossi to avoid extended beacon transmissions > in or near the "TA waterhole". He would be willing to move to the "Eu > slot", if only there were more active grabbers, also from the American > side. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.219]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMD022-8b794b87c31ee9; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:48:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9BCFB380000FF; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:48:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkzau-00051k-3i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:47:00 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nkzat-00051b-Oa for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:46:59 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkzaq-00053S-VQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:46:59 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QCkpUN090633 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:46:52 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA00249 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:51:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:51:52 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <931424D0B09442018D818E6AD1E5A63A@White> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:46:54 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40db4b87c31c1385 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) > Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level > > Dear LF, > > sometime back in 2000 I attempted to measure the daytime noise background at 9 kHz (see http://www.qru.de/vlf-theorie.html). I was using my regular LF antenna at my suburban QTH. The effective height is ~ 9 m, calibrated on LF by comparison to a small loop, and assuming that it would depend only little on frequency. Using good old Spectrogram with moderate averaging and placing the cursor between the visible impulsive spherics, I arrived at a background noise of about 5 dBuV/m referenced to 1 Hz (equivalent to 142 dB kTo). Seems noise level depend strong on the location. Anyway it is obvious for industrial noise. > Empiricaly I found that some noise limiting or blanking was essential to > maximize SNR for narrow bandwidth reception. Theory confirm this empirical rule. Few years ago i do some a theoretical study of optimal signal recieption in the condition of strong spherics noise. Such a noise is substantialy nongaussian then conventional theory assumed gaussian noise is not adequate. The study show conventional filtering (or FFT, it is the same) is not optimal. To get optimal SNR one should do some nonlinear processing before filtering. This processing is very similar to limiting. There is some an article on the subject on my web page www.qsl.net/ra9mb but unfortunely it is in russian. And it is very theoretical:-) I wonder if such a processing really improove SNR on 9 kHz. Such a processing was realized in GLFER program as author told to me. But i don't test it. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.30]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMB014-a1884b8410ae398; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:30:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B4E8E380038D8; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyWM-00033m-Co for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjyWM-00033d-1G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: from smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com ([195.200.78.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjyWJ-0005pD-76 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:26:06 +0000 Received: (qmail 20275 invoked by uid 507); 23 Feb 2010 18:25:26 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO JR) (john.rabson@numeo.fr@217.67.155.178) by smtp.qtxt.dns-iol.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2010 18:25:26 +0100 Message-ID: <201002231825390264.0720D365@smtp2.numeo.fr> References: <27454582.2927283.1266931019627.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb078> <201002231551000374.06933DBA@smtp2.numeo.fr> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:25:39 +0100 From: "John RABSON" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: Re: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601e4b840fe572ba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Trying again. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 23/02/2010 at 14:16 John RABSON wrote: From: John RABSON To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:00 +0100=20 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz >My LF ground system consists of nine rods each 1 m long, separated by >about 2 m. if I connect them in parallel the inductance at 980 Hz is >about 7=B5H, and the resistance is about 25 ohms. This suggests that, at >the frequencies we are considering, this is an essentially resistive >termination and we don't need to cancel out the reactive part. =20 > >If we place a similar setup at the other end of a long wire we should see >of the order of 50 ohms. Given that we are working at audio frequency, >perhaps the step-up transformer from 8 ohms could use conventional soft >iron laminations. At 50 Hz, my colleagues used to use a rule of thumb of >20VA per pound of laminations but I can't remember how this figure varied >with frequency. > >Can any audio power engineers please comment? > >73 >John F5VLF *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.91]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344b82ed1f47; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:46:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 710FD38000049; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:46:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Njf9d-0004WH-V3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Njf9d-0004W8-Ch for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Njf9a-0005Iy-Ux for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:21 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2088974bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:45:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KkdZG7UE8df8d4qzKoSXVGWcG52x6grsrV3oPEE0NoA=; b=cBtk0JCJMYPuAlBN5Gcmr3zGnR3iyG7G9lMxZOozD0jvP8dUax9/kV3tau9tI/yBmI zlkvHztnoAOgxc5HDV/Lru0cvAvdqSgcVEL1H1orYZreOqfBeFUtdaRuLkGFBfY7oCNi jvhefzqIsl9dD2DY2vD+d84/YgtJQfQytc4M4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=BBhvmeLUXcC4lhU8QVYvM42PGZkTyK3ZwLHFAdzCwZh51IF4TGEsslO1XXxhrnzkPn WQysswHDxtwvdHSZddwJh1iRyWUn/g/wcWJTFlcGy2Avt38RqHa4bAUbqwKLivg2B1G7 AWEnzDc5herh1jkGq9rT0Mg7YNicPiIS2a3f8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.38.77 with SMTP id a13mr2245307bke.26.1266871512056; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:45:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:45:11 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a31673c3a4048036826c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m256.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605b4b82ed1d11d1 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --00032555a31673c3a4048036826c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My thoughts precisely. The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for a NoV for 8.9kHz a few years ago. mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event', whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged on principle. Anyway, Ofcom as was were quite helpful, and even arranged a three way phone conversation with myself, Ofcom themselves, and a representative of the percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people. The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead", they'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure they would) Ofcom said they'd go away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all stopped. Despite chasing, nothing more was heard. I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop. Andy www.g4jnt.com On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath wrote: > Hello LFers, > > I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. > As it is very likely that the only listeners > down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have > always found that it's better to ask > for forgiveness than to ask for permission! > > 73, J.B., VE3EAR > > LowFER Beacon "EAR" > 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 > > > > > > > --00032555a31673c3a4048036826c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My thoughts precisely.
=A0
The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in= 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader
=A0
=A0
As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for 8.9kHz =A0a= few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event',= whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged= on principle.
=A0
Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even arranged a three= way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom themselves,=A0and=A0a repres= entative of the=A0percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenie= nced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people.
=A0
The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead",=A0 th= ey'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never dete= ct a signal; they were sure they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go= away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all= stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 I lost= interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and sto= pped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop.
=A0
On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath= <weazle@hur= ontel.on.ca> wrote:
Hello LFers,

I'd ju= st like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. =A0As= it is very likely that the only listeners
down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. =A0I ha= ve always found that it's better to ask
for forgiveness than to ask= for permission!

73, J.B., VE3EAR

LowFER Beacon "EAR&qu= ot;
188.830 kHz. QRSS30







--00032555a31673c3a4048036826c-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.167]) by air-mc07.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC072-a97c4b82c6081f7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 843BB380000D7; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYJ-0003VZ-H4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:39 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjcYI-0003VQ-VG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjcYE-0003vp-QY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:38 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so1920695bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6CMnxJd3kM9G6PB+byJ57bBuEtFgO6XKeYz0Pwiko5g=; b=HszRV16JjKCxaG1bMjQZRMxauPpdhh/WhwfSX+PBekuMdR5BwZp2ECfEc0smtNM6l/ y+LMkgaOPNA4n09Du/2hns2e2OD/FQbXsBWV66jr1OXS1NB3B8BouIYRXoLc0wI0aIA/ LLClEb2VyKwl8IOuPdRrAK3jdWIodJNFLJ1hU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=nWR/f8S9t8HYRB3RRA7GVNk0+Qso0V5pdVAaKUws+nvhsUbCXV6ZyzFAeUEdwCrzIW uoMnXgs4Mca4xZCsAEUntq7GnvtsGHJRafYA/PMiBLWyyKGBWggIigFw94SZrOM+iMfE R1xDa9Hyso8YcVzm0HgzdYX0NerTJ55llhihU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.156.22 with SMTP id u22mr2299532bkw.24.1266861507397; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:58:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B826B4F.9060202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9afca2641002220918n61515fe3kb09c3b13c24aa60e@mail.gmail.com> <57a24ca71002220937g231ad1fdsdd3b388a9420af57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002220958v216c300byec6f9bbfdf8f9e53@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d237.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cded14b82c6060e79 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive antenna system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz! Thanks - interesting link. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 17:37, Warren Ziegler wrote: > Roger, > > I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with > submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites > into the water. > The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin > which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8 > watts! > Interesting write up on the web: > http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2003.pdf > > -- > 73 Warren K2ORS > WD2XGJ > WD2XSH/23 > WE2XEB/2 > WE2XGR/1 > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roger Lapthorn > wrote: > > This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with > another > > request. I will happily do it if no-one else will. > > > > With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to allocate > > "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern was a military one > - > > possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low VLF > > region - and they were "instructed" to give this response. If so they > must > > all be paranoid. > > > > On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would > scrap > > our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into > renewable > > energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here. I'm > > happy to discuss this with others off-list. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA wrote: > >> > >> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably need to > >> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at one time > >> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as I > remember > >> was:- > >> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty but we > >> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will not be > >> issuing any licences for that region. > >> > >> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be > different > >> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach would be > >> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff through. > >> > >> Alan G3NYK > >> > > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175df23820c8320480342ec1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe some enterprising US hams could "borrow" the massive anten= na system (if it is still up) for some <9kHz tests in much the same way= some UK hams used the old Decca stations on 73kHz!

Thanks - intere= sting link.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February 20= 10 17:37, Warren Ziegler <wd2xgj@gmail.com> wrote:
Roger,

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I believe that elf is being abandoned for use with submarines in favor of a system that shoots lasers from satellites
into the water.
The US has shut down its 76 Hz transmitter in Clam Lake Wisconsin
which used 3 Megawatts of transmitter power to achieve an ERP of 8
watts!
Interesting write up on the web:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/fs_clam_lake_elf2= 003.pdf

--
73 Warren K2ORS
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XGJ
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WD2XSH/23
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XEB/2
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0WE2XGR/1


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:18 PM,= Roger Lapthorn
<rogerlapthorn@gmail.com= > wrote:
> This is an interesting answer and today OFCOM should be tested with= another
> request. I will happily do it if no-one else will.
>
> With regard to 0-9kHz induction and conduction communications, i.e. > non-radiating systems, I wonder if they have any legal right to alloc= ate
> "radio" licences at all? I wonder if the RA's concern= was a military one -
> possibly compromising transmissions to nuclear submarines in the low= VLF
> region - and they were "instructed" to give this response.= =A0 If so they must
> all be paranoid.
>
> On a slightly political note, I for one wish the UK government would= scrap
> our nuclear submarine deterrent and plough the billions saved into re= newable
> energy research instead, but that is not for further discussion here.= I'm
> happy to discuss this with others off-list.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
>
> On 22 February 2010 16:10, ALAN MELIA <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi as far as the Uk is concerned it is not allowed. You probably= need to
>> contact Andy G4JNT for details he did approach the regulator at= one time
>> maybe around 2001/2 when Geri was doing his tests the answer as= I remember
>> was:-
>> Frequencies below 10kHz are not allocated by International Treaty= but we
>> control all frequencies between DC and gamma rays, and no we will= not be
>> issuing any licences for that region.
>>
>> I believe that was the RadioCommunications Agency things may be= different
>> now with Ofcomm. The best person to know whether an approach woul= d be
>> worthwhile would be John Gould G4WKL who nursed the 500k stuff th= rough.
>>
>> Alan G3NYK
>>
>
> http://g= 3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm= .co.uk
> http:= //www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
> G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175df23820c8320480342ec1-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.212]) by air-dd01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDD011-86074b77d5e72e; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:52:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 91A79380000DE; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 05:52:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngc48-0001K3-QS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:04 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ngc48-0001Ju-6S for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:04 +0000 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ngc45-00030u-8j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:51:03 +0000 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o1EAowqO008199 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:58 +0100 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:59 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:59 +0100 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1AFA@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: I'm proud of this Thread-Index: AcqtMI7iKtxO6/nUQlWz0RNGNnzENgAMWYrs References: <228790.97819.qm@web63607.mail.re1.yahoo.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 19.717;31.01.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.388399, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.2.14.103922 X-PMX-SPAMCHECK: outgoing mail X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42" Subject: LF: AW: I'm proud of this X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/54979 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d44b77d5e559de X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Andy! =20 Congrats to that good work! What is your receiving antenna for DCF77? =20 In the web i have found that page: http://www.ptb.de/de/org/4/44/442/index= .htm#Kontakt There you can find the adress of the working group leader of DCF77. Maybe= it is not the perfect adress but it one that has to do with DCF77. If you= give him i technical description (surely they all can read it in english)= and the report and ask for a confirmation oer perhaps even a QSL, you pro= bably will get an answer... =20 Best 73! Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Andy - KU4XR Gesendet: So 14.02.2010 05:35 An: 600 meter group; Part-15 Yahoo; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: I'm proud of this Greetings all; and best wishes:: To some this may be trivial; but to myself, it is something I have tried for over 2 years, and tonight the propagation was great, and I was able to decode " DCF77 " with MultiPSK Clock. The signal peaked at S-6, solid copy. I made a recording of the signal, but it had began to fade and was showing signs of multipath. I also have a screen shot of the decode. Both can be acessed at ::: http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/DCF77%20-%202-13-2010/ Does anyone know if DCF77 will confirm receptions by QSL card ?? I still have not decoded HGB yet, and time is running out for it. 73 All::: Andy - KU4XR - EM75xr - Friendsville, TN. LOWfer Beacon " XR " @ 185.29866 KHz ( QRSS-60 ) Coordinates: N: 35=BA 43' 54" - W: 84=BA 3' 16" http://www.myspace.com/beaconxr http://webpages.charter.net/ku4xr/ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CAAD63.97F78C42 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjwKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAFgAAAEFXOiBJJ20gcHJvdWQgb2Yg dGhpcwDmBgEFgAMADgAAANoHAgAOAAsAMgA7AAAAaQEBIIADAA4AAADaBwIADgALADIAOwAAAGkB AQmAAQAhAAAAQkUwQjQ3OEJEQjVDOUU0RTg2QTYyREFGRUFGRTk5N0EAsAcBA5AGAGgSAAA4AAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkAQoz3l2OtygEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAIBRwABAAAAMgAAAGM9REU7 YT0gO3A9SFNUO2w9RklMRS1TRVJWRVItSFMtMTAwMjE0MTA1MDU5Wi02OTkAAAAeAEkAAQAAABYA AABMRjogSSdtIHByb3VkIG9mIHRoaXMAAABAAE4AgIrjHS+tygEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1y c2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABvd25lci1yc2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAFNNVFAAb3duZXItcnNn 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:36 +0000 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3so81249pzk.1 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:41:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LAgJ8fUN9H7CAn0idS8eVKkLv4Xw62LS1jSaubu/+PI=; b=gZDqr9Xkc5BfFLoJPgMDPhZEjX/kM3zovQjmT2sZpEyOkyv+3fhZTC9QGqvlGoicl5 59+FWw96K6uHk9/OhvsLGXywwNQKT/3QZfQeJ8nnmc+ZfcZSBJ0frN60qUYgeI2tpNp0 u8j2MeNW0IFqJ8y+yeJwmd0OqEYZmFrz61/tc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=b6zTnaTKp7Jgk2ETbTTkGhArzRtCthp6Peu+ktP7FrWE2wu4cKkQ3m+qFDfT32YMip dK0kj2b3w6w4r9P1g5mUk4LYY2u9PuMpY4CdKHGzWR7PM3G1YV5MAw9VWnB6HL2eiOhh MLSBNxc3S23Qm0iNK4I45cykz9FgPKsE0YrpU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.108.20 with SMTP id k20mr318867rvm.49.1265924485780; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:41:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <6C7B20F7BF564332B7F5F463BB85D427@2a2d7ed321c6425> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:41:25 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: d1e8b8455a387eea Message-ID: <1f0624b91002111341q3150fc03x9fcf4d1253278dc9@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m258.2 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60914b7479e57d4e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Gerhard, Thank you for your report. I am puzzled though, I believe the text should be " CQ G4WGT IO83" as it was in JT4A as I am running the WSPR 2 way mode from WSJT v7 which I am sure you are as well. Just got a call from Jim M0BMU. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 11 February 2010 21:09, Beckmann, Gerhard wrote: > Hello Gary, > > > > please find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR > > > > 2056 -22 0.0 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 > > 2100 -23 0.9 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0 > > 2104 -23 1.1 0.503600 0 07/G4WGT 0 > > > > vy 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI > > > > ==== > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Von:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *Im Auftrag von *Gary - G4WGT > *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 11. Februar 2010 21:41 > *An:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Betreff:* LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR > > > > Hi, > > > > If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on > 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. > > > > Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be > welcome. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > --000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerhard,

Thank you for your report.

I am puzzled though, I believe the text should be " CQ G4WGT= IO83" as it was in JT4A as I am running the WSPR 2 way mode from WSJ= T v7 which I am sure you are as well.

Just got a call from Jim M0BMU.

73, Gary - G4WGT.


On 11 Fe= bruary 2010 21:09, Beckmann, Gerhard <beckmann.erlangen@freenet.de> wrote:

Hello Gary,

=A0

p= lease find attached first lines of your transmission in WSPR

= =A0

2056 -22=A0 0.0= =A0=A0 0.503600=A0 0 07/G4WGT 0

2100 -23=A0 0.9= =A0=A0 0.503600 -1 07/G4WGT 0

2104 -23=A0 1.1= =A0=A0 0.503600=A0 0 07/G4WGT 0

=A0

vy 73 de Gerhard= =A0 //=A0 DK6NI

=A0

=3D=3D=3D=3D

=A0

=A0

Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11.= Februar 2010 21:41
An: LF Group (RSGB)
Betreff: LF: 503.600 kHz WS= PR

=A0

Hi,

=A0

If there is someone interested out there I am runn= ing WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

=A0

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports &= replies/calls will be welcome.

=A0

73, Gary - G4WGT.


--000e0cd13bb849960d047f5a0387-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.92]) by air-mc06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC064-a9764b8576d659; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:58:30 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id D93183800005F; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkMPq-0006zK-I2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkMPq-0006zB-4H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from mx38.mail.ru ([94.100.176.52]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkMPo-00070M-7y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:58 +0000 Received: from [79.98.8.6] (port=39773 helo=EFREMOV) by mx38.mail.ru with asmtp id 1NkMPe-0003Cp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:56:46 +0300 X-Nat-Received: 172.16.10.160 Message-ID: <001c01cab583$1c42bf00$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> From: "rn3agc" To: References: <000001caaffb$c7b85940$57290bc0$@nl> <001401cab00a$feec9700$8cd9160a@EFREMOV> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:56:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Subject: LF: PA3CPM Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605c4b8576d32969 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 Hello Henny, Yes, it is magnificent! Thanks for info about power, i wished to ask about it... 73 Andrey > Hello Andrey, > > my signal was on your grabber,it was only 25 watt, > > best 73s > henny pa3cpm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj04.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.88]) by air-mf01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMF012-8bca4b7490bb2c4; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:27 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 232C93800014D; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiJt-0002va-2I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:37 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NfiJs-0002vR-GU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:36 +0000 Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.48]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiJq-00066w-Na for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:36 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100211231929.YVLA4474.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:29 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NfiJk-00040N-O5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:29 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002111241h13d2673dt7fc8247decd2459d@mail.gmail.com> <032C9A68AD364778A688994CF9FBB7DE@JimPC> <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:19:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00d001caab70$a563fa00$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acqrbejcb9/KVEMVTvCjRkGsGlCfRgAAdSFA In-Reply-To: <9afca2641002111458v620ed392x42b88cda05518a38@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W3tOLUehizD4qj6VhtReFuw5MKb8d+XqjIxlDsIazEA= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=MDZQaXdsAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=fnYqA7hvAAAA:8 a=j6Q1dnSHAAAA:8 a=A06HpNCPAAAA:20 a=kUCLGRK_L_DVrsVa0mgA:9 a=79ZThQoLvd4tqltUkzoA:7 a=Z6tVlTSFLfN0g8cKGv03cDPknzMA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=nhn505YfawQA:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=5QliDAteqw15nLks:21 a=tZC2rjCdG0XU_V3b:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=7atzzstXPfW5wG0MDEkA:9 a=ObZbwiZ71nztD7lmgqUA:7 a=JeUhxfUY0p56yIw1gEzQn-pmTZcA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,LINES_OF_YELLING, LINES_OF_YELLING_2 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a84b7490ba4a38 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rog Run the WSJT7 programme and select wspr mode If you receive a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode When you have callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for each message on TX1 to Tx5 If the sending station is "going first" then you send the 2nd/4th messages and 73s after each is how I see it. CQ is message 6 A lot quicker than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!! With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 11 February 2010 22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 503.600 kHz WSPR Gary/Jim/Jim, Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedures used please? Must give this a try too. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz wrote: Dear Gary, Jim, LF Group, Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary: 213202 13 0 -0.5 -6 0 CQ G4WGT IO83 213602 10 -2 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 213602 16 4 -0.2 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214002 13 4 -0.3 -5 0 M0BMU S1 214402 16 -1 -0.5 -5 0 M0BMU R S6 214402 17 5 -0.5 6 0 G7NKS IO92 20 214802 13 0 -0.3 -5 0 73 DE G4WGT IO83 And Jim: 221002 10 4 -0.4 31 0 M0BMU S2 221402 10 4 0.0 31 0 G7NKS RRR 221802 9 5 -0.5 31 0 73 DE G7NKS IO92 Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" To: "LF Group (RSGB)" Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR Hi, If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonight on 503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB. Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will be welcome. 73, Gary - G4WGT. -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Rog

 

Run the WSJT7= programme and select wspr mode

 

If you receive= a signal in the window using the spectrum display click on it and click decode

 

When you have= callsign and locator decoded in the main window, enter these in the relevant boxes and then click= on gen stnd msges on the right hand side and it will enter the right text for= each message on TX1 to Tx5

 

If the sending= station is “going first” then you send the 2nd/4th messages= and 73s after each is how I see it.

 

CQ is message= 6

 

A lot quicker= than QRSS but do watch out for the Witchfinder General as he will burn you at the stake!!

 

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org [mailto:owner-= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 11 February 2010= 22:58
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 50= 3.600 kHz WSPR

 

Gary/Jim/Jim,
Not having tried WSPR in QSO mode, can you clarify the method/procedur= es used please? Must give this a try too.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 February 2010 22:37, James Moritz <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.moritz@btopenworld.com">james.moritz@btopenworl= d.com> wrote:

Dear Gary, Jim,= LF Group,

Thanks for the WSPR QSOs with Gary:

213202  13   0 -0.5    -6  0  CQ G4WGT= IO83
213602  10  -2 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
213602  16   4 -0.2     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214002  13   4 -0.3    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> S1
214402  16  -1 -0.5    -5  0  M0BMU <= G4WGT> R S6
214402  17   5 -0.5     6  0  G7NKS IO92= 20
214802  13   0 -0.3    -5  0  73 DE G4WG= T IO83

And Jim:

221002  10   4 -0.4    31  0  M0BMU <= G7NKS> S2
221402  10   4  0.0    31  0  <M= 0BMU> G7NKS RRR
221802   9   5 -0.5    31  0  73 DE G7NK= S IO92

Well, at least it's quicker than QRSS!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary - G4WGT" <g4wgt@tiscali.co.uk= >
To: "LF Group (RSGB)" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz WSPR

Hi,

If there is someone interested out there I am running WSPR 2 way tonig= ht on
503.600 kHz, dial set at 502.100 kHz USB.

Please look (monitor) for my signal. Reports & replies/calls will= be
welcome.

73, Gary - G4WGT.

 




--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.c= om/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/G3XBM
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01CAAB70.A563FA00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.219]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454b82f0f735e; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:47 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7EC6C38000388; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfP0-0004dR-Ic for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:14 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NjfOz-0004dI-WF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:14 +0000 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NjfOw-0005PD-Uw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:13 +0000 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2103277bwz.4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:01:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=s5w0whq1dGpk0JUp9R8cdYbnib5hCGUiURidueWJRyo=; b=gnf+Z2AnxVhd5iDbeVUpnbkmMMLVn12Fux+eF3jjsZJPIptBTJWzbHJmiCq1wMvSEy 0ILFrDxXdc4YMkP4YldcBmOUzzpuKo1w06wJsA7ACb1OL2CuTDfDCxIs7fAbr8jaeG83 o77WXjNUCKS57pjQ/L1EACdoL2FnhCRpws8i0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=EVY091WIG57wIz/4F3sllioxbqoFQzkSGiDd6QZYy6lt2Xu/kP31BGcY3/GG+e4oSE JtyAbIRLS2BwRpdkN2xE0H+RCfcbchw9+gK4zM+o0lXiC6VOS9E3/lbgEajEM9mv0ZmY MNclcHfmd6A6xgLHlCTE9KKI0OYy3HUJGn8mk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.160.147 with SMTP id n19mr987800bkx.182.1266872464251; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:01:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <588613.30106.qm@web86502.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <9FBA5C09-D62E-482B-A073-84DFAF261640@hurontel.on.ca> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:04 +0000 Message-ID: <9afca2641002221301r13c30262jb244da97d8a19a56@mail.gmail.com> From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF_8.79 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d299.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60db4b82f0f05a84 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks Andy. So they didn't actually say no, just didn't reply. 73s Roger G3XBM On 22 February 2010 20:45, Andy Talbot wrote: > My thoughts precisely. > > The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in 437 BCE > (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader > > > As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for a NoV for 8.9kHz a few years > ago. mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event', whereas if I'd just > gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged on principle. > > Anyway, Ofcom as was were quite helpful, and even arranged a three way > phone conversation with myself, Ofcom themselves, and a representative of > the percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenienced - the > Spherics lightning monitoring people. > > The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead", they'd see if there > would be a problem (I was sure they'd never detect a signal; they were sure > they would) Ofcom said they'd go away and consult on a form of words for > a NoV and that's where it all stopped. Despite chasing, nothing more was > heard. I lost interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon > construction, and stopped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop. > > > Andy > www.g4jnt.com > > > On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath wrote: > >> Hello LFers, >> >> I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of the pond. >> As it is very likely that the only listeners >> down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. I have >> always found that it's better to ask >> for forgiveness than to ask for permission! >> >> 73, J.B., VE3EAR >> >> LowFER Beacon "EAR" >> 188.830 kHz. QRSS30 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Andy. So they didn't actually say no, just didn't reply.
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 22 February= 2010 20:45, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com> wrote:
My thought= s precisely.
=A0
The phrase attributed originally to Solon the Lawmaker of Athens in= 437 BCE (or thereabouts) and subsequently Douglas Bader
=A0
=A0
As mentioned recently, I tried to apply for=A0a NoV for 8.9kHz =A0a= few years ago.=A0 mainly to allow publicicity 'after the event',= whereas if I'd just gone ahead and done it, people may have whinged= on principle.
=A0
Anyway, Ofcom as was were=A0quite helpful, and even arranged a three= way phone conversation with myself,=A0 Ofcom themselves,=A0and=A0a repres= entative of the=A0percveived users of that frequency who may be inconvenie= nced - the Spherics lightning monitoring people.
=A0
The latter were quite open, and said "just go ahead",=A0 th= ey'd see if there would be a problem (I was sure they'd never dete= ct a signal; they were sure they would)=A0=A0=A0 Ofcom said they'd go= away and consult on a form of words for a NoV and that's where it all= stopped.=A0=A0=A0 Despite chasing, nothing more was heard.=A0=A0 I lost= interest in VLF, went back to microwaves and beacon construction, and sto= pped thinking of how to make a BIG ground loop.
=A0
On 22 February 2010 20:19, John Bruce McCreath= <weazle@hurontel.on.ca> wrote:
Hello LFers,
I'd just like to throw in my two pence worth from this side of th= e pond. =A0As it is very likely that the only listeners
down there would be fellow experimenters, just go ahead and do it. =A0I ha= ve always found that it's better to ask
for forgiveness than to ask= for permission!

73, J.B., VE3EAR

LowFER Beacon "EAR&qu= ot;
188.830 kHz. QRSS30










--

http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/G3XBM
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0015175cb2d6351b82048036bb00-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.211]) by air-dc08.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDC082-862c4b6f2a8b26a; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:03:07 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7FFC538000133; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEGm-0004gU-L1 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEGm-0004gK-6G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEGj-00041I-Mk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:02:16 +0000 Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so2468367pzk.16 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:02:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=bJnBomaWioFZ7ajf44XJv1NKeh2d89EurFgyy4RJ23E=; b=boKdLuHg8eppmvhXiGpuETapWklJDjFw9A6DECRgovlXAjto1QQyELwv70ox6qD3mZ E9PidgpiD0t2pZMiJXmd+b1QfD4jrc/m7M2Z+zl1z6sj2rSc3xYnrOQ/VHIhW1vxO0bs xaYXTMI2N9xksPoDp6N75zkSXQA9hASZqOMDo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=rGFOZpppo3KhlEdBuw+KVb4dd2nC/JD70oQTH4HxFsKnCOFu3xMPLt52/Hp5tVkUdC 4AHpHd4Dc2m1WuLyIWuWhGquiYXTDN69BwkFQ5TXhzJbg9b7/+MGauN76Z9Lc22qbiZ0 4vKqNXlNAjAUonKYtKC08Wfg+QGCF6ySlILo4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.107.16 with SMTP id j16mr3876685rvm.61.1265576526066; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:02:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <2548A215723147018B4F1D3F4DAC12B5@2a2d7ed321c6425> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:02:06 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9870a8882786ba46 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002071302t560a9703g56a47bed2332ee54@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: AW: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d34b6f2a897b57 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard, Thank you for watching & reporting. The broadcast harmonic at 504 is quite strong but not sure how that relate= s to conditions on this band. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 20:45, Beckmann, Gerhard = wrote: > Good evening Gary, LF > > > > first reception of your CQ-Call this evening at =96 20 dB !!! > > > > 203600 16 -20 -0.4 -48 31 * CQ G4WGT IO83 1 0 > > > > Condx seem to be not too good=85. > > However, JT4A is just working !!! > > > > best 73 de Gerhard // DK6NI (JN59LN) > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *Von:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *Im Auftrag von *Gary - G4WGT > *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 7. Februar 2010 20:17 > *An:* LF Group (RSGB) > *Betreff:* LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A > > > > Hi LF, > > > > I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports wi= ll > be very welcome. > > > > Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operatin= g > Tx First (even minutes). > > > > Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. > > > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > > > > > > --000e0cd13b6e45b3e9047f08ff0d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard,

Thank you for watching & reporting.
<= div>

73, Gary - G4WGT.
--000e0cd1a9a0934eaa047f099d6a-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.203]) by air-di05.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI054-eac94b854d5034e; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:01:20 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mg03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 17CD33800157E; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:01:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJdi-0005rp-Kl for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkJdi-0005rg-9m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkJdd-0005DP-Sw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:59:06 +0000 Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id o1OFwjTZ018405 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:45 -0500 Received: from F4DTL@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id l.cef.7186ecec (34995) for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-m25.mail.aol.com (magic-m25.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.198]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v127.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB018-88b34b854cb212b; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 -0500 From: F4DTL@aol.com Message-ID: <2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:58:42 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.5 sub 155 X-AOL-ORIG-IP: 77.201.218.65 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: F4DTL@aol.com X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,NO_REAL_NAME=0.55 Subject: LF: M0BMU QSL card (F4DTL) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cb4b854d3e4d4f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thank Jim for your QSL card received today. It's a beautiful card. Best regards F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP _http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/_ (http://lfistes.erst.azerttyu.net/) --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many thank Jim for your QSL card received today. It's a beautiful=20 card. 
 
Best regards
 
F4DTL Nicolas JN18FP
<= FONT lang=3D1 color=3D#0000ff size=3D3 face=3DArial FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"= PTSIZE=3D"12">http://lfist= es.erst.azerttyu.net/
 --part1_2b942.2018d9f5.38b6a6b2_boundary-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.8]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDI061-eaca4b8816683d2; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:52 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 14E55380000A4; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl58w-0007sK-9p for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:30 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Nl58v-0007sB-Uz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:29 +0000 Received: from mx.omskcity.com ([79.133.160.2]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Nl58s-0007ya-TO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:42:29 +0000 Received: from noname.nodomain.nowhere (host209.161-133-79.sotline.ru [79.133.161.209]) by mx.omskcity.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1QIgMAq019787 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:42:23 +0600 (OMST) (envelope-from fitec@omskcity.com) Received: from localhost (fitec@localhost) by noname.nodomain.nowhere (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA00275 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:47:25 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: noname.nodomain.nowhere: fitec owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:47:25 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.1.8 (mx.omskcity.com [79.133.160.2]); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:42:24 +0600 (OMST) X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12=1.498 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9kHz noise level Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12 autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40084b88166614f4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, Andy Talbot wrote: > probably end up appearing quite close to Gaussian. Certainly, on 73kHz > the impulsive Loran interference and natural spikes appeared completely > Gaussian when filtered to the sub-Hz bandwidth we used there. Andy, certanly AFTER filtering noise became gaussian. But matter of fact is that if noise is nongaussian then to get optimal reception one should make some nonlinear processing (limiting in simplest way) BEFORE narrow band filtering. After filtering when noise is gaussian limiting or someone else nonliniar processing has no sence. There is exact matematical theorem: if noise is gaussian then optimal signal processing is linear filtering (or correlator calculation in coherent case). > However, for 9kHz signalling, I think you would do a lot better by going for > coherent signalling. IMHO coherent signaling improoves SNR by 3 dB. It does not depend of the fact if noise is gaussian or nongaussian. Anyway this (coherent signaling) is linear processing nonoptimal when noise is nongaussian. Interesting quation arises there. Is any optimal form of the signal if noise is nongaussian? I don't know answer. This is high science. But if noise is gaussian then form of the signal has no meaning. Only energy of the signal has meaning if noise is gaussian (with constant spectrum). If filter is optimal for specific signal of couse. Regards, Alexander/RA9MB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-de01.mail.aol.com (v126.13) with ESMTP id MAILINDE011-5ea24b6f2b2622f; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:05:42 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 484C1380000F3; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:05:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEJE-0004oj-08 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:48 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NeEJD-0004oW-Bg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:47 +0000 Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEJB-00045D-UW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:47 +0000 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.2]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100207210440.GAEJ4204.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:04:40 +0000 Received: from [86.24.144.39] (helo=desktop) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NeEJ5-0003Pa-Hu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:04:40 +0000 From: "James Cowburn" To: References: <1f0624b91002071117m530cc88bx74aaa91eb3763a54@mail.gmail.com> <002501caa82d$0e257150$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071150g319f4578hf3d85dcb86d84e1f@mail.gmail.com> <003801caa830$23c24030$0217aac0@desktop> <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:04:37 -0000 Message-ID: <005501caa839$2875ee20$0217aac0@desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <1f0624b91002071227v162231b8xeeb4cdd7c0dcccb9@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 Thread-Index: AcqoNBsaGGoW2njzSS24l1Mico1S6wABMk7A X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=1ggfb5FlKZQUfF3vzm9UBYZ2uTfLsbs/8dSljwg5+mE= c=1 sm=0 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=8RloEfZUAAAA:8 a=sM9o4fZmomUROB6xvIsA:9 a=rsgNaVLMoXprAFKhKVAA:7 a=or6heUByWsmTm4IUoXYrN7hb9iwA:4 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=O58u2wXj750A:10 a=9AeOp5ZzXMg_09bL:21 a=Vlkg4ZLu6cwllVPL:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=eeuRTDgHSEXUkVsFjD4A:9 a=_jcEowIGKAnhT7uTHbwA:7 a=zMql8BcItUK7dHMCoqaL9alpancA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_FONT_BIG=0.256,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_70_80, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054b6f2b246aba X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No joy! You are coming through with strong traces and audible too. Switching to WSPR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa! Maybe next time With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 20:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A Jim, Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on Dave's grabber at Birmingham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength but not enough for a decode yet. One consolation is that it would not be visible or audible for CW. Keep trying. 73, Gary - G4wgt. On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary 3 captures of your signal so far all about -17dB. I am Txing now on "odds" lets see if I make it. I've had comm port issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go With best regards Jim _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 503.600 kHz JT4A OK Jim, Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port. GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT. On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn wrote: Hi Gary I am listening out for you and Txing on odd minutes a reply With best regards Jim Dr. James Cowburn From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4WGT Sent: 07 February 2010 19:17 To: LF Group (RSGB) Subject: LF: 503.600 kHz JT4A Hi LF, I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will be very welcome. Dial frequency 502.300 kHz, signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx First (even minutes). Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No joy! &n= bsp; You are coming through with strong traces and audible too.   

 

Switching to WS= PR now as 50% duty cycle on JT4 will roast my pa!  

 

Maybe next time=

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowbu= rn

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= ary - G4WGT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 20:27
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

Jim,

 

Thanks for your report, I can see a trace on= Dave's grabber at Birmin= gham & a very faint trace on my JT4A waterfall, it seems to be improving in strength= but not enough for a decode yet.

 

One consolation is that it would not be visib= le or audible for CW.

 

Keep trying.

 

73,  Gary -= G4wgt.

On 7 February 2010 20:00, James Cowburn <<= a href=3D"mailto:james.cowburn@virgin.net">james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:

Hi Gary

 

3 captures of your signa= l so far all about -17dB.  I am Txing now on “odds” lets see if I make it.

 

I’ve had comm port= issues before too, DM780 is a b****r for not letting go

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:50
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
Subject: Re: LF: RE: 50= 3.600 kHz JT4A

 

OK Jim,

 

Up & running now, just had a comms port snag, another app was holding the port.

 

GUD LUK, Gary - G4WGT.

On 7 February 2010 19:37, James Cowburn <james.cowburn@virgin.net> wrote:<= /span>

Hi Gary

 

I am listening out for= you and Txing on odd minutes a reply

 

 

With best regards=

 

 

Jim

 

 

Dr. James Cowburn=

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsg= b_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Gary - G4W= GT
Sent: 07 February 2010= 19:17
To: LF Group (RSGB)
Subject: LF: 503.600 kH= z JT4A

 

Hi LF,

 

I Will be running JT4A in "QSO" mode tonight, replies/calls & reports will= be very welcome.

 

Dial frequency 502.300 kHz,  signal frequency 503.600 kHz, JT4A operating Tx Fir= st (even minutes).

 

Tx RF power 50 watts & ERP 200 mW.

 

73,  = Gary - G4WGT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01CAA839.2875EE20-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.216]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v127_r1.1) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4b87a0a1aa; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:21:22 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CFE4438000093; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:21:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1NkxIt-0003zx-D3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:15 +0000 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1NkxIs-0003zo-RP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:14 +0000 Received: from mail-pv0-f171.google.com ([74.125.83.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NkxIp-0003ob-KF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:14 +0000 Received: by pvg2 with SMTP id 2so1434359pvg.16 for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QtCeyRBzWW8FR3iD+00srZzkzf8alceXJkEKq+5phqY=; b=GTay64XJ1fylJHyuRD52b9Bl6Uy+x7+qLmbWrjW5ki8f1lf9PrLNTLsENzSdnRO6gS gV6uCEAvTRDQijnacdrwotACF1OGuiXYNpJsEIa7lKQ6lK6ZSuQzJePcU4XMJkg1ATX0 2swc+AySZmLpw5O3f8r/GrVKClF4oJm8cvSNU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=VxSZ/BipygMvZ9MBE2XUsqeWxobiaR+LfS9G1Txw8nO/a+iO1BFU0pyja6e/TF7qth r60QdoF+vix4Vxmj3wuMY6Lq8gp+YLmyGEOYw6cNgEzVqbk5sKKmjRb+7uwpdm/1dinx GcfOycifc+6Hm3YiGFczWczFEb2ACyfWmd2do= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.101.21 with SMTP id d21mr96551rvm.41.1267179603471; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:20:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <001c01cab575$6bbb0460$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <20100225094846.EA85531E702@smtps01.kuleuven.be> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B19@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1B@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <1f0624b91002251108v6b41560cq5e28355d51376978@mail.gmail.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1B1E@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:20:03 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6788739c060d7e11 Message-ID: <1f0624b91002260220n3d2a2ebeye088bc887b5d4fb@mail.gmail.com> From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF test signals? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d258.1 ; domain : googlemail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d84b87a09f0e64 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF, I am not involved with the group, I joined only to read the interesting mails & discussions & do not get involved. Just the occasional response fr= om me. I know that some members also subscribe here to LF. You could subscribe yourself & I am sure you would be made very welcome & share experiences with the other members. I have seen that they are very helpful to each other. I can receive down to about 5kHz or so with my transverter (performance no= t measured) & lower with sound card receivers & I do occasionally tune down= & look/listen. Good Luck with your project es 73, Gary - G4WGT. 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Tnx Gary and the group for that excellent discussion! > > Maybe, if you are involved in that VLF group, you can give them a hint= what > is happening here in the last days ;-)) > I rather will spend my time for setting up that vertical TX antenna on > 8,9kHz... I will start in 30min, driving to my parents, where my > "electronic-lab" is ;-) Building that PA, tmw getting and testing and > resonating that coil. Testing the PA at the coil (if there are HV and > heating problems). Perhaps, if everything, including the wind, will be > right, i will try a transmission on sunday morning but that is still > uncertain and i would tell it to the group before. > I wrote a mail to some Lowfers in my region if it's possible to RX there= . > Bernd/DF8ZR is just abt 16km away from my /p QTH and well equipped on lo= w > frequencies. Marco/DD7PC is abt 45km away... > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > ________________________________ > > Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Gary - G4WGT > Gesendet: Do 25.02.2010 20:08 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: LF: VLF test signals? > > > Hi Stefan, LF, > > There is a VLF Group at the following :- > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VLF_Group/ > > The members discuss & ar= e > involved in a different field of VLF, mainly in "natural radio" > > Have a look at some of the discussions, it is an interesting & informati= ve > group. > > 73, Gary - G4WGT. > > > > 2010/2/25 Stefan Sch=E4fer > > > Which commercial VLF transmitters can actually be received in the > 10kHz range? There is much listed in the web but in times where these > transmitters are shut down all this may be already old stuff. Who is > receiving in this frequency region and can tell us a frequency and the= SNR > he is achieving? There are so many OMs who watch the VLF sector and have > nothing done with LF and this group. Perhaps it it an idea to > activate/motivate them for some tests, to increase the RXers density. > Maybe it is good to compare some RX rprts in that region. But i= will > rather be active at the transmitters front now ;-) > > Stefan/DK7FC > > > > --000e0cd1383e21ad4204807e3ec0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, LF,

I am not involved with the group, I join= ed only to read the interesting mails & discussions & do not get= involved. Just the occasional response from me. I know that some members= also subscribe here to LF.

You could subscribe yourself & I am sure you would= be made very welcome & share experiences with the other members. I ha= ve seen that they are very helpful to each other.

I can receive down to about 5kHz or so with my transverter (performance no= t measured) & lower with sound card receivers & I do occasionally= tune down & look/listen.