From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19308 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 22:10:13 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25831 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 22:10:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:10:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18IFo8-0004M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:09:52 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.112] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18IFo8-0004Lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:09:52 +0000 Received: from cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.136) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:09:50 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.169.246] by cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 900gkdwJW0341M36; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:09:48 GMT Message-ID: <3DE93766.5060201@usa.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:10:46 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c298a4$647bf920$9eb901d5@main> Subject: Re: LF: Frequency Standards..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan Melia wrote: >anyone for parts in >10^13 ?? > > Hmmm, so imprecise ? I thought Hydrogen Masers could go up to 10^15 .... must be a discarded item that didn't pass the Production Quality tests.... :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30528 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 22:05:59 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:05:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 5923 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 22:05:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:05:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18IFjn-0004KP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:05:23 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.113] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18IFjm-0004KG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:05:23 +0000 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 22:05:21 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.169.246] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 008gkdwFs0066M28; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:05:18 GMT Message-ID: <3DE93658.2010108@usa.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:06:16 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Strictly Private. Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Oliveira Savimbi wrote:
  My name is Oliveira Chuli Savimbi, I am a nephew and Personal Assistant to Late Jonas Malheiro Savimbi, leader of UNITA (National Union for the Total Independence of Angola). 

Ah, finally a change.... I was annoyed by all those messages coming from Nigeria... this time
the treasury is in Angola.... who knows, maybe this time he says the truth... :-)   :-)

73  Alberto  I2PHD

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8530 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 21:55:28 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 21:55:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 20482 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 21:55:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18IFZT-0004D5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:54:43 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.41] (helo=mta1-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18IFZT-0004Cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:54:43 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.208.65]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021130215443.IELT277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:54:43 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c298bb$104419c0$41d0fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 21:53:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Just confirming Lauries posting about todays QSO. M reports exchanged, tho' Laurie started at O and gradually went down during the exchanges. Will be on Sunday 0900z for sked with Peter, but due to do GB2RS at 1030z so there will not be much chance to make a morning of it. Lots of fun with flames in the cable duct but it all came right in the end. 73 de, Ian MI0AYZ/GI8AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4878 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 19:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 7545 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 19:13:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 19:13:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ID3A-0003K1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:13:12 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ID39-0003Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:13:11 +0000 Received: from host213-1-185-158.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.185.158] helo=main) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ID38-00065z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:13:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c298a4$647bf920$9eb901d5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:49:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Frequency Standards..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, ever wondered what a Cesium Clock was...... or how a Rubidium standard worked.....why do crystals "age"..... ?? It's all explained now....I found an old copy of an NBS Tutorial (dated 1977) which covers all these and many more interesting facets of Time and Frequency standards. I have scanned it and made it available as a .PDF file in two parts, which can be downloaded from the index page of my web site. It even covers the 2003 "must have" the Hydrogen Maser....anyone for parts in 10^13 ?? Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21193 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:53:06 -0000 Received: from netmail02.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.221) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:53:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 12221 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 18:53:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail02.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:53:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ICjo-0003CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:53:12 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.20] (helo=dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ICjo-0003CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:53:12 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 34890809 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:52:41 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c298a1$b6af65e0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c298a0$b60315c0$95e468d5@ECSJAN2002> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:53:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Strictly Private. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group E-mail message contentRichard, >Must have assumed that anyone on 136kHz has more money than sense. >Richard Newstead, G3CWI Hey, that message was "strictly private." Should we be talking about it? John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8681 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:46:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:46:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 24002 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 18:46:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:46:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ICcj-00038s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:45:53 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.45] (helo=mta5-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ICci-00038j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:45:52 +0000 Received: from ECSJAN2002 ([213.104.228.149]) by mta5-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021130184551.MINY570.mta5-svc.business.ntl.com@ECSJAN2002> for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:45:51 +0000 From: "Richard Newstead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:45:52 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c298a0$b60315c0$95e468d5@ECSJAN2002> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: Strictly Private. Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,HTML_70_90,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_COLOR_NAME,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit E-mail message content

Must have assumed that anyone on 136kHz has more money than sense…

 

73

 

Richard Newstead, G3CWI

Buy and sell  ham gear online at The Amazing Online Flea Market

http://www.qsl.net/g3cwi

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Oliveira Savimbi
Sent: 30 November 2002 19:09
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Strictly Private.

 

Good Day,
 
With warm heart I offer my friendship, etc etc

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10958 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:28:35 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:28:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 3179 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:28:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:28:24 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ICLO-0002xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:27:58 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ICLN-0002xp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:27:58 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1038680857!14616 Received: (qmail 21771 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-3.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:27:37 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:27:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FS500; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:31:10 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:27:33 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:27:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna + dilemma Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Loop Enthusiasts, It's ironic that a came back to work during my vacation to gain access to this reflector to report a TX loop problem involving Q and find this Q = 500/D equation being discussed. First here is some hard data for my 50ft X 50ft .62" OD Cu pipe loop 6ft above ground at the lowest point that indicates this equation is way off. Loop Perimeter = 200ft Rac total at 185k (dry soil) = 0.38 ohms Derived Rac for conductor based on skin effect = 0.16 ohms Assumed ground loss (dry soil) = 0.22 ohms Inductance = 95uh Derived Q at 185k (dry soil) = 290 Loop current at 1W (dry soil) = 1.6A Now here's the problem that I need some help on: I built a test loop with an 80ft perimeter from 0.88"OD Cu pipe that can be raised to 25ft (lowest leg) in order to derive a ground loss equation. The calculated Rac for the loop alone, based on skin effect, is 0.05 ohms. The measured Rdc for the loop is 0.015 ohms and the inductance is ~30uh. At 1 foot off the ground the loop Rac measures 0.15 ohms. At any distance greater than 3ft the Rac measures no less than 0.13 ohms!! Thinking that the problem was with the Rac meter (home brewed), I built a test coil comprised of 2mm Litz wound on a 4" form that has a 0.045 ohm Rdc. The coil measures 0.060 ohm on the Rac meter which is close to what I estimated. Therefore, I believe the problem is not in the measurement technique. So the question is: Why can't I get an Rac reading for a loop based on applied voltage and resulting current that is close to the skin effect resistance of the loop conductor?? Here's a list of possibilities: 1. The 16 tin-lead solder joints could have a high Rac at 185k in spite of the Rdc = 0.015 ohms. I suppose I could invest in 80 continuous feet of .75" copper tubing @ ~$100, or braze the joints. I can easily build a loop of the same dimensions from 2mm Litz and see if the results are similar. 2. The surroundings could have an effect. Will move farther from the house (currently 20ft) and note the effect. 3. There could be some theoretical issues I have not taken into account having nothing to with a loop antenna but relating to coil Q, Rac, proximity effect, etc. Other thoughts: There could be 185k E/H radiation (aside from the magnetic field) that is reflected off the lossy ground and back to the loop as an additional Rac loss. The distance to the ground is so small relative to a wavelength that a loop elevation change from 3ft to 25ft would see no Rac change. Thoughts PLEASE. Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7382 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:10:20 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:10:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23015 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 18:10:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 18:10:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18IC3P-0002qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:09:23 +0000 Received: from [62.216.10.249] (helo=192.168.100.84) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18IC3O-0002qi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:09:22 +0000 From: "Oliveira Savimbi" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:09:22 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000ams Message-ID: Subject: LF: Strictly Private. Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.7 required=5.0tests=INVALID_DATE,NIGERIAN_TRANSACTION_1,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, SUPERLONG_LINE,US_DOLLARS_3version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: *** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit E-mail message content
Good Day,
 
With warm heart I offer my friendship, and greetings, and I hope this mail meets you in good time. However strange or surprising this contact might seem to you, as we have not met personally or had any dealings in the past, I humbly ask that you take due consideration of its importance and immense benefit. I also sincerely seek your confidence in this transaction, which I propose to you as a person of integrity.
 
First and foremost I wish to introduce myself properly to you. My name is Oliveira Chuli Savimbi, I am a nephew and Personal Assistant to Late Jonas Malheiro Savimbi, leader of UNITA (National Union for the Total Independence of Angola). As led by my instinct, I selected your email address from an internet directory, in my search for a partner, hence this proposal.
 
My Uncle(Mentor) was killed in a battle with government forces of Angola, led by President Dos Santos, on Friday 22nd February 2002. After his death, Mr. Antonio Dembo who was his second in command, assumed office as leader of UNITA, due to lack of the Charisma my Uncle had carried the party with in Dembo, there was chaos and struggle for leadership. Prominent members like Carlos Morgado lobbied to depose him and assume office as leader to enrich themselves and some of them who saw me as a threat to their ambitions, including Mr.Dembo, planned to kill me. The tension and confusion in UNITA become uncontrollable when Mr. Dembo died 10days after my Uncle's death. As I lost my mentor in this struggle which has been on for three decades now, not so much of this struggle interests me anymore, as there is now no sense of direction. I now desire a peaceful life, as I am no more interested in conflicts and wars. For this reason, I secretly left Angola and came here (Holland) to seek political asylum.
 
I am sincerely proposing to you to render me your highly needed assistance in respect to safekeeping of some of my Uncle's money that arose from Diamonds sales. This money (US$18.5million), which was already on its way to my Uncle's Swiss Bank account, through the Diplomatic means we use to move money abroad, and was on transit with a private safe deposit security company here in Amsterdam, Holland in February when the tragic incident of my Uncle's death occurred. I then instructed the company to secure the consignment containing the money pending on further instructions from me. I have waited for sometime now for security reasons, and have now deicded to act with your reliable assistance. As a matter of fact, the reason I came to Holland and sought for political asylum here is the safe deposit.
 
President Dos Santos has lobbied the International Community to freeze my Uncle's assets and accounts abroad, to ground UNITA, and has already done this in Angola. Hence I cannot lodge the funds in my name. Also I did not declare the funds to the here.
 
I plan to use this money to safeguard my future. It is very essential that you understand that the kind of trust and confidence I want to put in you is extraordinary, and an act of desperation on my part, in order not to lose this money. Also, ensure that this contact with you should be treated with utmost secrecy.
 
Your role in this project, is clearing the safety deposit containing the money which is deposited in my name, from the Security company, after which, the money will lodged into an account preferably a new account you should open for this transaction. My share of the money will be returned to me when my asylum application in this country is granted, and I have permission to do business and open an account here.
 
For your reliable assistance, I will reward you with 15%($2,775,000) of the money.
 
I have with me, the Certificate of Deposit for the consignment containing the funds, which will be used for claim from the security company, and the release codes of the vaults. Also, everything will be legally processed for transfer of ownership to you, and this transaction should be completed immediately depending on your prompt response.
I thank you in advance as I anticipate your assistance in enabling me achieve this goal.
 
Please contact me whether or not you are interested in assisting me. This will enable me scout for another partner in the event of non-interest on your part.
 
Sincerely,
O.C.Savimbi.
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8346 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 14:39:08 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 14:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 29221 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 14:38:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 14:38:54 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I8lI-0001Lx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:38:28 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I8lH-0001Lo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:38:27 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h028074.nexo.es [195.235.28.74]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA05528 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:38:26 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002901c2987e$08e4aa60$4a1cebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <170.17d27e8b.2b1a181e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:37:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Osc drift (TCXO) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All again:
 
Note about TCXO and DTCXO.
73, José - EA1PX
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Osc drift (TCXO)

Hi,

In a message dated 11/29/02 7:03:23 PM GMT Standard Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes:

Layout of the IIG oscillator/synthesizer board is quite different from the
II, also the TCXO for the IIG is much bigger and a different part number.
The TCXO for the II is claimed to be a "numerically-controlled" type, that
for the IIG is not. Does anyone know the difference? I thought all tcxo's
were just thermistor-controlled varactor diodes in series with the crystal.


I think the idea of a numerically-controlled TCXO is having an internal ADC digitizing the NTC voltage, convert it in a calibrated nonvolatile lookup-table and then use a DAC for the varicap. Depending on digital resolution, this concept can be prone to a stepwise response to gradual temperature changes, possibly resulting in a sawtooth FM pattern.

73
Markus, DF6NM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23204 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 14:27:02 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 14:27:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 22594 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 14:26:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 14:26:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I8ZU-0001FD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:26:16 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I8ZT-0001F4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:26:15 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h028074.nexo.es [195.235.28.74]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA04177 for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:26:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001901c2987c$5497db00$4a1cebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <79.330d526.2b19fe66@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:25:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73KHz activity Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All:
 
Received Laurie´s signals this morning, on 71.75 KHz-QRSS3, starting at 9:04 and ending at 9:56 UTC with "73 SK". The signals were weaker than some weeks ago at the same time.
 
73 de José, EA1PX - loc IN53TI
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73KHz activity

In a message dated 11/30/02 11:01:51 AM GMT Standard Time, laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk writes:


Valid QRSS3 contact with Ian MIOAYZ this morning.Reports "M" both ways.
Had Ant. problem at first,I had to go outside (in pyjamas) to clear
insulators.
Signal dropped to"T" at end about 0945 so guess earlier start required in
future.
Thanks Ian for QSO glad to meet you on LF.
73 Laurie.




Well done Laurie and Ian.

Depending on Ian's exact location, this may be a new 2 way record.

David   G0MRF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22830 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 13:34:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 13:34:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9292 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 13:34:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 13:34:36 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I7kn-000100-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:33:53 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.103] (helo=imo-r07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I7km-0000zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:33:52 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.170.17d27e8b (3924) for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:33:18 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <170.17d27e8b.2b1a181e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:33:18 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: Osc drift (TCXO) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi,

In a message dated 11/29/02 7:03:23 PM GMT Standard Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes:

Layout of the IIG oscillator/synthesizer board is quite different from the
II, also the TCXO for the IIG is much bigger and a different part number.
The TCXO for the II is claimed to be a "numerically-controlled" type, that
for the IIG is not. Does anyone know the difference? I thought all tcxo's
were just thermistor-controlled varactor diodes in series with the crystal.


I think the idea of a numerically-controlled TCXO is having an internal ADC digitizing the NTC voltage, convert it in a calibrated nonvolatile lookup-table and then use a DAC for the varicap. Depending on digital resolution, this concept can be prone to a stepwise response to gradual temperature changes, possibly resulting in a sawtooth FM pattern.

73
Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10602 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 11:44:43 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:44:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5165 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 11:44:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:44:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I62d-0000PQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:44:11 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.101] (helo=imo-r05.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I62d-0000PF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:44:11 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.79.330d526 (4340) for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <79.330d526.2b19fe66@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:43:34 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73KHz activity Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/30/02 11:01:51 AM GMT Standard Time, laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk writes:


Valid QRSS3 contact with Ian MIOAYZ this morning.Reports "M" both ways.
Had Ant. problem at first,I had to go outside (in pyjamas) to clear
insulators.
Signal dropped to"T" at end about 0945 so guess earlier start required in
future.
Thanks Ian for QSO glad to meet you on LF.
73 Laurie.




Well done Laurie and Ian.

Depending on Ian's exact location, this may be a new 2 way record.

David   G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9729 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 11:39:13 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:39:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26058 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 11:39:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:39:01 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I5wm-0000Mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:38:08 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.104] (helo=imo-r08.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I5wl-0000Mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:38:08 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.136.17cb9e7c (4340) for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:37:35 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <136.17cb9e7c.2b19fcff@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 06:37:35 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: Re: LF: Osc drift Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/29/02 7:03:23 PM GMT Standard Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes:



Layout of the IIG oscillator/synthesizer board is quite different from the
II, also the TCXO for the IIG is much bigger and a different part number.
The TCXO for the II is claimed to be a "numerically-controlled" type, that
for the IIG is not. Does anyone know the difference? I thought all tcxo's
were just thermistor-controlled varactor diodes in series with the crystal.



There is a remote possibility that you may have a PLL frequency synthesiser and not a crystal at the frequency that you think.
I recently tried to buy a crystal oscillator module at 70 something MHz only to be told that they were OK for everything except demanding communication applications.
It appears that they frequently have a standard PLL module and just programme it for whatever frequency the customer wants. It's then sold as an Oscillator module, which does contain a crystal, it's just the reference xtal for the internal PLL.
That may go some way to explain the jitter.......or not as the case maybe.

73

David  G0MRF   www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6920 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 11:02:10 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:02:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 13118 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 11:02:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 11:02:01 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I5Mx-0000Bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:01:07 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.173] (helo=cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I5Mx-0000Bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:01:07 +0000 Received: from modem-184.south-carolina.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.91.184] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18I5Mw-0000u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c29860$f19129a0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:03:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Valid QRSS3 contact with Ian MIOAYZ this morning.Reports "M" both ways. Had Ant. problem at first,I had to go outside (in pyjamas) to clear insulators. Signal dropped to"T" at end about 0945 so guess earlier start required in future. Thanks Ian for QSO glad to meet you on LF. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24502 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 10:33:49 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 10:33:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 27230 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 10:33:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 10:33:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I4uW-0008QW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:31:44 +0000 Received: from [195.241.76.179] (helo=pandora.tiscali.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I4uW-0008QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:31:44 +0000 Received: from fujitsu (unknown [195.240.29.70]) by pandora.tiscali.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id A723C392CF for ; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:31:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <005101c2985c$1fc03aa0$461df0c3@fujitsu> From: "Valstar" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk><3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost><004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie><91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114165216.00aff730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:34:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: test only, don't read this Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group testing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8994 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2002 09:07:04 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 09:07:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15622 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Nov 2002 09:06:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2002 09:06:52 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18I3WS-00082A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:02:48 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.19] (helo=cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18I3WS-000821-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:02:48 +0000 Received: from modem-78.barad-nimras.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.133.206] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18I3WR-0003pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:02:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c29850$6a296aa0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 09:07:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Ian and all, Sorry I have a major insulation breakdown on the Ant. so I will be watching for you but cannot transmit. If anyone else on freq. please call Ian. If ins. improves as sun warms up will try again. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5415 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 23:54:13 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 23:54:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 20026 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 23:54:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 23:54:02 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Huw2-00058D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:52:38 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.11] (helo=smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Huw2-000584-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:52:38 +0000 Received: from tnt-5-237.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.200.237] helo=erica) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Huw1-000Lo8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:52:37 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c29802$8a661e60$edc828c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000d01c2979a$9262c720$a6ccfc3e@ian> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:47:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73 KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Ian > Thanks to all those who replied to my posting. Will be on 71.75 QRSS3 ot > 0900z tomorrow, Saturday for a sked with Laurie. Other reports (even > negative), or QSOs more than welcome. Also will be on from 0800 Tuesday > around the same frequency. > > Please note that Xband to 136 is not an option at the moment but will be > along in due course. I will listen/look for you. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16279 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 19:59:30 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:59:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 6321 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 19:59:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:59:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HrHh-0003X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:58:45 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HrHh-0003Wv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:58:45 +0000 Received: from [212.1.155.179] (helo=RSGB613192) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18Hr99-00018u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:49:55 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c297e1$c3ce2ce0$045bfea9@RSGB613192> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021129180949.00a19cb0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:59:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Osc drift Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I don't know about the IC756, but the IC746 derives all frequencies from one master oscillator at 30MHz. The high stability option for this is an ovenned crystal, and takes several minutes to get to a good stability. It does not hunt at all, just stays absolutely flat. I set mine to within 0.2ppm two years ago and it is holding exactly the same frequency now. By the way Walter, thanks for the GPS module data - they keep getting better. Andy G4JNT ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Blanchard To: Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:02 PM Subject: LF: Osc drift > Re my posting earlier this year about excessive jitter in my ICOM 706 Mk II > oscillator: > > I've checked a number of 706 Mk II and 706 Mk IIG tcvrs, all with the > "hi-stab" osc. installed. > > II's > Same jitter as mine. Seems to be two different jitters superimposed - one > square-wave pulse-like jumping of amplitude 30-50 Hz (at 145 MHz) of period > 2-3 mins, the other almost a sinewave amplitude 20-30 Hz period 30 mins or > so. The amplitude and frequency of the square-wave is affected by the fan > and I could reduce it somewhat by wrapping polyfoam insulation round the > osc. Disconnecting the fan made amplitude smaller but did not eliminate > it. Both slightly different between different samples. > > IIG's > One jitter only - a sawtooth of amplitude 5 Hz (at 145 MHz) with period of > 2-3 minutes not linked to the operation of the internal fan. Pretty much > the same between samples. > > The IIG jitter seems OK considering it would only be 0.005 Hz at 136 kHz > but the II would be 0.05 Hz which might or might not matter. > For ordinary HF SSB/CW operation or FM on 2m neither would matter of course. > > Layout of the IIG oscillator/synthesizer board is quite different from the > II, also the TCXO for the IIG is much bigger and a different part number. > The TCXO for the II is claimed to be a "numerically-controlled" type, that > for the IIG is not. Does anyone know the difference? I thought all tcxo's > were just thermistor-controlled varactor diodes in series with the crystal. > > Seems to indicate ICOM discovered the problem and had to redesign the board > to get rid of it. Actually there are also major differences in positioning > and layout of other boards and components to the extent that at a quick > look you might think they were two different machines. > > Have also tested other machines including a Vertex FT-817 which was quite > remarkably stable - no jitter and only a slow thermal drift around 20 Hz > (at 145 MHz) between 15 and 25 degs Centigrade. It did not have the hi-stab > option. The best of the bunch by far was the ICOM 756 PRO Mk II which was > totally jitter-free and only drifted 1 Hz (at 50 MHz - does not cover 2m) > for an ambient change of 15-25 deg C. There is no hi-stab option for this > machine - doesn't need one by the look of it!. Anybody know if it > incorporates some drift-cancelling scheme like the Barlow-Wadley loop in > the old Racal RA17? Do any others? > > Transceiver tests for the mags ought to include a stability check on the > oscillator in future. > > Walter G3JKV. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/02 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20032 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 19:20:28 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:20:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 11584 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 19:20:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:20:16 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Hqfu-0003Ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:19:42 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.47] (helo=mta7-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Hqft-0003Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:19:41 +0000 Received: from ECSJAN2002 ([62.253.12.22]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021129191940.QAEW282.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@ECSJAN2002> for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:19:40 +0000 From: "Richard Newstead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:19:41 -0000 Message-ID: <000601c297dc$4510e690$160cfd3e@ECSJAN2002> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20021129180949.00a19cb0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: Osc drift Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Transceiver drift is quite a problem. I am doing some propagation experiments on the HF bands that need long-term stability of 100mHz or less. This is way beyond what the average ham gear can do - my IC737 is good with around 700mHz drift (peak to peak cyclical) but still not good enough. My frequency standard is several orders of magnitude better. Getting rid of the drift is hard too, you can read of my problems at my website in the propagation section. The good news is that Wolf of Spectrum Lab fame is hoping to build in a drift cancelling system in the next version of Spectrum Lab. Drift cancelling is possible with the current version but is a bit fiddly - again there is an account in the propagation section at my web site. That's all for now so I'll slide off (if you get my drift). 73 Richard Newstead, G3CWI Buy and sell ham gear online at The Amazing Online Flea Market http://www.qsl.net/g3cwi -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Walter Blanchard Sent: 29 November 2002 19:02 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Osc drift Transceiver tests for the mags ought to include a stability check on the oscillator in future. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 547 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 19:03:20 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:03:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29823 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 19:03:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 19:03:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HqPS-0003DX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:02:42 +0000 Received: from [212.35.226.183] (helo=k2.pncl.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HqPR-0003DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:02:41 +0000 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (175.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.175]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gATJ2dCK019606 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:02:40 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021129180949.00a19cb0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:02:06 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Osc drift Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060309040804090902040904" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060309040804090902040904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Re my posting earlier this year about excessive jitter in my ICOM 706 Mk II oscillator: I've checked a number of 706 Mk II and 706 Mk IIG tcvrs, all with the "hi-stab" osc. installed. II's Same jitter as mine. Seems to be two different jitters superimposed - one square-wave pulse-like jumping of amplitude 30-50 Hz (at 145 MHz) of period 2-3 mins, the other almost a sinewave amplitude 20-30 Hz period 30 mins or so. The amplitude and frequency of the square-wave is affected by the fan and I could reduce it somewhat by wrapping polyfoam insulation round the osc. Disconnecting the fan made amplitude smaller but did not eliminate it. Both slightly different between different samples. IIG's One jitter only - a sawtooth of amplitude 5 Hz (at 145 MHz) with period of 2-3 minutes not linked to the operation of the internal fan. Pretty much the same between samples. The IIG jitter seems OK considering it would only be 0.005 Hz at 136 kHz but the II would be 0.05 Hz which might or might not matter. For ordinary HF SSB/CW operation or FM on 2m neither would matter of course. Layout of the IIG oscillator/synthesizer board is quite different from the II, also the TCXO for the IIG is much bigger and a different part number. The TCXO for the II is claimed to be a "numerically-controlled" type, that for the IIG is not. Does anyone know the difference? I thought all tcxo's were just thermistor-controlled varactor diodes in series with the crystal. Seems to indicate ICOM discovered the problem and had to redesign the board to get rid of it. Actually there are also major differences in positioning and layout of other boards and components to the extent that at a quick look you might think they were two different machines. Have also tested other machines including a Vertex FT-817 which was quite remarkably stable - no jitter and only a slow thermal drift around 20 Hz (at 145 MHz) between 15 and 25 degs Centigrade. It did not have the hi-stab option. The best of the bunch by far was the ICOM 756 PRO Mk II which was totally jitter-free and only drifted 1 Hz (at 50 MHz - does not cover 2m) for an ambient change of 15-25 deg C. There is no hi-stab option for this machine - doesn't need one by the look of it!. Anybody know if it incorporates some drift-cancelling scheme like the Barlow-Wadley loop in the old Racal RA17? Do any others? Transceiver tests for the mags ought to include a stability check on the oscillator in future. Walter G3JKV. --------------060309040804090902040904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT10974.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT10974.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/02 --------------060309040804090902040904-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25194 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 18:46:10 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 18:46:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 26818 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 18:45:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 18:45:59 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Hq8O-000378-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:45:04 +0000 Received: from [213.40.2.23] (helo=bodum.sout.netline.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Hq8N-00036x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:45:03 +0000 Received: from [213.40.203.92] (helo=tcs1) by bodum.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.04) id 18Hq7k-0007yZ-00; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:44:24 +0000 From: "G4WGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: dibene@usa.net Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:45:04 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3DE63D31.5090202@usa.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: Status report about Argo on XP and slow PCs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alberto, I have had the Argo 130 test version & screen capture running for 24 hours with no problems at all, I have been using the PC normally for my usual daily routines including MS Word, telephone fax & voice mail, internet access, photo display & printing during this time. It looks like you have got to the root of the problems. My earlier runs with Argo 130 & Windows 2000 Pro (as I reported to you) were going faulty within 1 hour. Thank you for your attention and making the corrections. 73 Gary G4WGT. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: 28 November 2002 15:59 To: LF Mailing List; lf; lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: Status report about Argo on XP and slow PCs Good afternoon all, I received a few reports about problems that Argo has on Win XP and/or 2000, and a few others where similar problems seemed to surface when running on slow laptops, usually Pentium 166 MHz with Win 95. After some trials, and thanks to a suggestion of Wolf, I succeeded in reproducing the problem on my PC, which, by today standards, is also a slow machine (an Athlon 750 MHz), but fast enough to prevent me to spot the problem earlier. What apparently happened was a buffer starvation during high CPU load peaks, where the buffer pool I had allocated was emptied before the program had a chance to requeue them to the sound subsystem, after processing. I have changed the logic of the program in this section, and now it seems to work ok, at least on my PC. This means that I am now unable to reproduce the problem, but I can't have an absolute certainty. This is where I need your cooperation, expecially from those who reported the malfunction, no matter whether on Win 95 or XP or 2000. I have uploaded a test version on http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/argo130test.zip Please unzip it in your Argo directory, so that it can use the DLL, which hasn't changed. If your reports will be positive, then I will change the released version. BTW, while at this, I discovered a quirk of the Borland compiler TRegistry class under XP, which forced me to not use it, calling instead directly the Windows APIs. This has the unfortunate consequence that the format of the settings has changed, so you will have to save them again, using the same or a different name. Sorry, but in this case the culprit is not me. Thanks, 73 Alberto I2PHD --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16737 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 16:09:54 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 16:09:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 857 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 16:09:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 16:09:43 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HngQ-0002K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:08:02 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HngP-0002Jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:08:01 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18Hnf6-0007Au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:06:40 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Hnf5-00051t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:06:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021129153952.00a94218@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:00:42 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <3DE77E14.5060906@verizon.net> References: <8.3082bd21.2b189b74@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: New cores from Micrometals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Andre, LF Group, At 09:47 29/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >does anyone know of a table of equivalency between the Philips cores and >the Micrometal ones? The Micrometals cores are iron dust, whilst the Philips cores usually seen in LF use are ferrites, eg. 3C85 etc. Philips (or presumably Ferroxcube now) do produce iron dust materials , designated 1Pxx and 2Pxx according to the 1991 Philips data book I have here. "xx" is the relative permeability of the material; the 1P04, 1P11, 1P30 series seems to be intended for tuned applications, and are probably quite similar to Micrometals materials with similar permeability, while the higher permeability, higher loss 2P materials are intended for noise supression. However, cores in the 1P materials don't seem to be a standard catalogue item. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5902 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 15:00:58 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 15:00:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 10767 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 15:01:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 15:01:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HmdG-0001zm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:00:42 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.130] (helo=moutvdom.kundenserver.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HmdF-0001zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:00:41 +0000 Received: from [212.227.126.221] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18HmdE-0008Ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:00:40 +0100 Received: from [217.1.65.161] (helo=diolog.de) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18HmdE-0006mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:00:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3DE778A0.EBF01A3E@diolog.de> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:24:32 +0000 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRV again.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello group, after about 6 months QRT on LF I am finally QRV again with a new antenna: ca. 17m vertical, basket-weaver coil at 15m, other loading coil at 7m (in attic), 2 parallel wires (ca. 10cm apart) as topload, 15m long, sloping down to 8m. On receiving this antenna works 10 dB (!!) better than my old wire and I just worked DL2HRE (ca. 300km) in normal CW which is a new personal record for my 35 watts o/p! cu this weekend! Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27741 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 14:49:06 -0000 Received: from netmail02.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.221) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 14:49:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 12257 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 14:48:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail02.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 14:48:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HmQp-0001sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:47:51 +0000 Received: from [206.46.170.141] (helo=out002.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HmQo-0001sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:47:50 +0000 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.219.31]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021129144715.FMGI9109.out002.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:47:15 -0600 Message-ID: <3DE77E14.5060906@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:47:48 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8.3082bd21.2b189b74@aol.com> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at out002.verizon.net from [141.156.219.31] at Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:47:15 -0600 Subject: Re: LF: New cores from Micrometals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > A short note for any home constructors. > > Micrometals, producers of the popular T-200-2 and other toroids, have > introduced a new series called the 200C series. > does anyone know of a table of equivalency between the Philips cores and the Micrometal ones? André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25554 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 12:07:41 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 12:07:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 14333 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 12:07:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 12:07:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HjvO-00012P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:07:14 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HjvO-00012G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:07:14 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:06:13 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:04:18 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:04:18 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.101]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:04:18 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:04:17 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368FB3@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: tube Thread-Index: AcKWSIHONt3JEU13QSWnL4eHaSb7MQBVt9XQ From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2002 12:04:18.0368 (UTC) FILETIME=[71BE3400:01C2979F] MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: SV: tube Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0tests=HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUPERLONG_LINEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Suspect it is sort of fast heated valve
 
73
LA8AK
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: hamilton mal [mailto:g3kev.ham@virgin.net]
Sendt: 27. november 2002 19:58
Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Emne: LF: tube

Thanks to all that responded with info about the  QQZ06-40 tube. The tube does have gold plated pins as opposed to the  QQV06-40 with normal pins. It looks like the heater voltage is 2.1 volts and not 6.3 v.
73 and agn tnx de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20642 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 12:03:09 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 12:03:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 9113 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 12:03:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 12:03:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Hjq4-0000z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:01:44 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Hjq4-0000yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:01:44 +0000 Received: from host62-6-69-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.69.33] helo=presario-1920) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Hjq2-0002Ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:01:43 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:06:16 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9D07@mail.dstl.gov.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: Printed Spiral Inductors - off topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Andy, yes - I'll copy the relevant section from Brian Wadell's Transmission Line Design Handbook. 73 John, G3WKL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Talbot Andrew > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 11:14 > To: LF Group (E-mail) > Subject: LF: Printed Spiral Inductors - off topic > > > Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but I am looking for the design > equations for spiral inductors printed on PCB material, with or without a > groundplane. I vaguely remember seeing some equations in one of the > freebie RF magazines a few years ago, but can't find it. A web search has > not pointed at anything useful - yet. > > I need to design some bandpass filters in the 300MHz and 600 to 800MHz > ranges and want something more repeatable than bits of silver > plated wire. > > Can anyone lay their hands on the design equations ? > > Tnx > Andy G4JNT > > "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the > intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, > or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has > misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to > this e-mail." > > "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is > subject to monitoring and auditing." > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19611 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:47:25 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:47:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 21363 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 11:47:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:47:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HjcE-0000rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:47:26 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HjcE-0000r7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:47:26 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.95.11]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021129114726.VWHU3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:47:26 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:50:15 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9D07@mail.dstl.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9D07@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021129114726.VWHU3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: Printed Spiral Inductors - off topic Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Friday 29 November 2002 11:13, you wrote: > Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but I am looking for the design > equations for spiral inductors printed on PCB material, with or without a > groundplane. I vaguely remember seeing some equations in one of the > freebie RF magazines a few years ago, but can't find it. A web search has > not pointed at anything useful - yet. > > I need to design some bandpass filters in the 300MHz and 600 to 800MHz > ranges and want something more repeatable than bits of silver plated wire. > > Can anyone lay their hands on the design equations ? I have 'Broadband model predicts s-parameters of spiral inductors' from Microwaves & RF, Jan 88 which I can send if you give me an address. I also have an ancient version of Touchstone that includes a spiral inductor as an element, which you are welcome to come and use. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17044 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:45:01 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:45:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 7012 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:44:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:44:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HjZ5-0000oe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:44:11 +0000 Received: from [144.254.98.48] (helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HjZ4-0000mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:44:10 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (lon-sto4-lan-vlan132-dhcp4.cisco.com [144.254.108.7]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28277 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:43:38 GMT Message-ID: <3DE752B8.2020508@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:42:48 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9D07@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Printed Spiral Inductors - off topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Google returned a large number of hits in response to the term spiral inductance Of these, http://www.csgnetwork.com/spiralcoilinduccalc.html is a javascript programme, which you can see by doing a view source, and if necessary reverse engineer back to the equations Stewart G3YSX Talbot Andrew wrote: > Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but I am looking for the design > equations for spiral inductors printed on PCB material, with or without a > groundplane. I vaguely remember seeing some equations in one of the > freebie RF magazines a few years ago, but can't find it. A web search has > not pointed at anything useful - yet. > > I need to design some bandpass filters in the 300MHz and 600 to 800MHz > ranges and want something more repeatable than bits of silver plated wire. > > Can anyone lay their hands on the design equations ? > > Tnx > Andy G4JNT > > "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the > intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, > or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has > misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." > > "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is > subject to monitoring and auditing." > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12932 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:27:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:27:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 10309 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:27:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:27:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HjI0-0000dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:26:32 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.41] (helo=mta1-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HjI0-0000dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:26:32 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.204.166]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021129112629.CIRG277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:26:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c2979a$9262c720$a6ccfc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:28:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Thanks to all those who replied to my posting. Will be on 71.75 QRSS3 ot 0900z tomorrow, Saturday for a sked with Laurie. Other reports (even negative), or QSOs more than welcome. Also will be on from 0800 Tuesday around the same frequency. Please note that Xband to 136 is not an option at the moment but will be along in due course. 73 de, Ian MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22182 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:15:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:15:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10747 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Nov 2002 11:14:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:14:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Hj6H-0000Zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:14:25 +0000 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Hj6H-0000Zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:14:25 +0000 Received: (qmail 10124 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 11:14:17 +0000 Received: from warlock.dstl.gov.uk (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 11:14:16 +0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9D07@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:13:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: Printed Spiral Inductors - off topic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but I am looking for the design equations for spiral inductors printed on PCB material, with or without a groundplane. I vaguely remember seeing some equations in one of the freebie RF magazines a few years ago, but can't find it. A web search has not pointed at anything useful - yet. I need to design some bandpass filters in the 300MHz and 600 to 800MHz ranges and want something more repeatable than bits of silver plated wire. Can anyone lay their hands on the design equations ? Tnx Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27129 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 10:30:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 10:30:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9111 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 10:30:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 10:30:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HiP1-0000LH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:29:43 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.164] (helo=imo-m09.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HiP1-0000L1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:29:43 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.8.3082bd21 (4246) for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 05:29:09 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <8.3082bd21.2b189b74@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 05:29:08 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: LF: New cores from Micrometals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit A short note for any home constructors.

Micrometals, producers of the popular T-200-2 and other toroids, have introduced a new series called the 200C series.

As the name suggests, these cores can operate at very high flux densities and can run up to 200 degrees.   

The first two materials are the -60  and -70  with permeabilities of 55 and 100 respectively.  These are described as "magnetic alloys" with properties similar to Iron powder.

Toroids between 0.16 inch and 4 inches are being produced in addition to E cores and other formats.   Other materials in the series are planned and these will have permeabilities >100 and <55.

So if you're planning a winter dx-pedition and you fancy a cup of tea, just remember to bring a kettle and make sure your 200C cores are near the top of the transmitter.

73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 927 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 08:55:44 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 08:55:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 22875 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 08:55:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 08:55:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Hgrn-0008Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:51:19 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Hgrm-0008Gi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:51:19 +0000 Received: from host213-121-126-226.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.121.126.226] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Hgrm-0001dQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c29784$97b69dc0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE63D31.5090202@usa.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:52:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Status report about Argo on XP and slow PCs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alberto. The experimental version of Argo ran for 6 hours without problem last night on my old Cyrix266 machine Win95. This used to crash regularly (but not always!). I will try it on my "portable" PC, a P100 Win95 laptop, today. 73 Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: "LF Mailing List" ; "lf" ; Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 3:58 PM Subject: LF: Status report about Argo on XP and slow PCs > Good afternoon all, > > I received a few reports about problems that Argo has on Win XP and/or > 2000, > and a few others where similar problems seemed to surface when running on > slow laptops, usually Pentium 166 MHz with Win 95. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4355 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 00:45:08 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 00:45:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 20727 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2002 00:44:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2002 00:44:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HZFr-0006fY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:43:39 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.81] (helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HZFq-0006fP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:43:38 +0000 Received: from fwd10.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18HZFp-0007xI-01; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 01:43:37 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.51.163]) by fwd10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18HZFZ-0eTDHMC; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 01:43:21 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1c6.234de67.2b168d08@aol.com> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 01:43:21 +0100 Message-ID: <18HZFZ-0eTDHMC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: DBF39 phase jump experiment Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080409070308060008050204" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080409070308060008050204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MarkusVester@aol.com schrieb: > DCF49 as 129930.015Hz and DBF39 as 138830.033Hz. They seem to be stable at > least on a 10mHz scale, but we currently don't know whether they are > free-running or somehow locked to UTC or GPS for longterm stability. > > 73 de Markus, DF6NM > Hi Markus, there is an other irragularity in the carrier itself that can be seen in the steady part between two bursts. seems the osci is not locked to anything or is it a third intentionally characteristic (first: bursts, second: phase jumps)? see attachment (SpecLab Time Domain shot). regards Uwe --------------080409070308060008050204 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="DCF39.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="DCF39.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAHgASQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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0ueKwdEuJF2BjIY8AkBiGAJVtucHBwccGqkelzLbaIghgtl0+XJhjmaRVQQyRqFYqCx+ZeoH fr33qKAOf0DSLrSx/pDxny7SCyjEZJ3pDvw5yBtLb/u84x94546CiigAooooAKKKKAEHWuA+ Nv8AySHXf+3f/wBKI678daWgD5/vv+P7xd/YH/Ik/wBq6Z9v/sv/AI9vsfkn7Xs8r/tn5nl/ NjrxmtDxnbeEby10m18JLYtDN4rsI7oRRPLYGQxOBhARE3yld6xkE8BiDivcKKAPF/iXpuk6 P4fsLPy4F8RweWbGHTbWW1EiG7Qutku544rjJQll3vgHK4IxX0m3ntfj3Ctte/bJJNQ1KW+k USpPHA0EXlxTqyj9yjBPLbcyNkFcEYr3CigAooooAKKKKACiiigD/9k= --------------080409070308060008050204-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5828 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 22:59:56 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 22:59:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 11726 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 22:59:50 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 22:59:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HXcn-0006Ji-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:59:13 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.69] (helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HXcn-0006JZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:59:13 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021128230019.TOFN1107.host4@att.net> for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:00:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3DE6E600.6D0146AD@att.net> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:58:56 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: HGB 75 KHz plots continue Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I received several messages about not being able to retrieve the HBG plots. The plots are located at a different URL from the location I first gave. I realized the amount of screen shots that was generated the first day were hard to sort through, creating a lot of plots and were not easy to view. I am now running a single plot for each day which will start an hour or so after my sunrise. Looks like the present parameters gives about 23 hours. This near real time plot can be seen at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg Each day I will capture the past overnight's run and date the .jpg. These plots can be seen from the directory at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/ I am working toward having this run on a dedicated antenna, receiver and computer so that I can use my main system for other receptions. The dedicated computer was put on line today and is running DL4YHF's latest version of Spectrum Lab V2.0b1. The new no frames option will reduce the file size. Thanks Wolf! I plan to run this on 75 KHz for a while but could change to any frequency of interest. These plots appear to be interesting to someone or many since the URL has received 1281 hits, as of this moment, in three days! I'm sure the new will wear off though :) W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12468 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 21:25:14 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 21:25:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 2964 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 21:25:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 21:25:03 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HW8Q-0005yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:23:46 +0000 Received: from [194.109.127.138] (helo=smtpzilla2.xs4all.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HW8P-0005yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:23:45 +0000 Received: from Smisan ([80.127.237.157]) by smtpzilla2.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id gASLNdJF050467 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:23:44 +0100 (CET) From: "M. Sanders \(PA3BSH\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:26:00 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c29724$c33d8180$9ded7f50@Smisan> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3DE2C221.165F095@att.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: HBG dip before sunset Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, There is more information about the influence of the sun on propagation of HBG signals in an analysis of signal measurements during the 1999 solar eclipse on the URL: http://www.xs4all.nl/~misan/eclipse.htm 73's Michael, PA3BSH -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] Namens Dexter McIntyre W4DEX Verzonden: dinsdag 26 november 2002 1:37 Aan: RSGB LF Onderwerp: LF: HBG dip before sunset Just looked at W1TAG's HBG plot and saw he has the same sharp dip in signal but slightly earlier than what I saw. This dip occurred about half and hour before sunset here. Of course John's sunset is slightly earlier than mine. Compare John's signal plot with mine. http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3890 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 16:42:55 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:42:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 6243 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 16:42:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:42:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HRjd-00056O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:41:53 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HRjd-00056F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:41:53 +0000 Received: from host62-7-1-198.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.1.198] helo=dave) by einsteinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18HRjc-0006xQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:41:52 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:44:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DE647DC.22143.22FF9AE@localhost> In-reply-to: <01C296E0.64AE4B20.g4jnt@thersgb.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On 28 Nov 2002 at 13:16, Andy talbot wrote: > There is an awful lot of controversy over the G3LHZ theories on > loops...................... Yes, I accept this and you will see that I have included his formulae on my website with the proviso that I do not necessarily believe them. He derived them from real performance measurements of hf loops. Certainly his formula for radiation resistance is many orders of magnitude too optimistic for lf loops! His formula for Q (and the one formula he is adament is accurate!!) indicates the best achievable Q for any loop based on its diameter, and is intended to show that even reducing resitive losses to zero you will not get better than this figure. It is based on loop bandwidth measurements. For my loop (not actively used at the moment) the formula gives a Q of 35 and an effective bandwidth of 3.9kHz. The fact that I achieve around 1kHz bandwidth (Q of 136) even with far from minimised resistive losses indicates the formula is a bit pessimistic! There may be some truth in the mechanisms he is trying to demonstrate - ie you can only increase Q up to a certain level and reducing resistive losses below a certain level is a case of diminishing returns - but I appreciate the values seem wrong. Mike's theories may well be controversial but that doesn't mean they should not be discussed on here. Rik, put up your loop and measure what it does, then feed back the figures to G3LHZ. If enough do this (as I have), he may rethink! Incidentally Rik's figure of 30A loop current at 400W is pretty close the the 26A I interpolated for my loop based on real measurements at 5W level (not many of us have 30A rf current meters!). Other measurements I have made also tie in pretty well to the classical loop theory values so we may well be coming to the conclusion that Mike has got it wrong! Well I guess controversy is good for us. Remember the CFA....? 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17776 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 16:27:32 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:27:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 15595 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 16:27:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:27:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HRUl-00050Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:26:31 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.113] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HRUk-00050P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:26:30 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 16:26:28 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.179.74] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 687gkbqAy0130M31; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:26:25 GMT Message-ID: <3DE63D31.5090202@usa.net> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 16:58:41 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , "lf" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: Status report about Argo on XP and slow PCs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Good afternoon all, I received a few reports about problems that Argo has on Win XP and/or 2000, and a few others where similar problems seemed to surface when running on slow laptops, usually Pentium 166 MHz with Win 95. After some trials, and thanks to a suggestion of Wolf, I succeeded in reproducing the problem on my PC, which, by today standards, is also a slow machine (an Athlon 750 MHz), but fast enough to prevent me to spot the problem earlier. What apparently happened was a buffer starvation during high CPU load peaks, where the buffer pool I had allocated was emptied before the program had a chance to requeue them to the sound subsystem, after processing. I have changed the logic of the program in this section, and now it seems to work ok, at least on my PC. This means that I am now unable to reproduce the problem, but I can't have an absolute certainty. This is where I need your cooperation, expecially from those who reported the malfunction, no matter whether on Win 95 or XP or 2000. I have uploaded a test version on http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/argo130test.zip Please unzip it in your Argo directory, so that it can use the DLL, which hasn't changed. If your reports will be positive, then I will change the released version. BTW, while at this, I discovered a quirk of the Borland compiler TRegistry class under XP, which forced me to not use it, calling instead directly the Windows APIs. This has the unfortunate consequence that the format of the settings has changed, so you will have to save them again, using the same or a different name. Sorry, but in this case the culprit is not me. Thanks, 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9026 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 14:05:39 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 14:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 19892 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 14:05:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 14:05:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HPHH-00083Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:04:27 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HPHG-00083Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:04:26 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.94.1]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021128140426.YOQL3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:04:26 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:07:12 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <01C296E0.64AE4B20.g4jnt@thersgb.net> In-reply-to: <01C296E0.64AE4B20.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021128140426.YOQL3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Thursday 28 November 2002 13:16, Andy talbot wrote: > There is an awful lot of controversy over the G3LHZ theories on > loops...................... I found the following set of course notes very informative. Number 11 deals with small loops - I haven't looked through all the others to see of there's anything about ground effect on loops. Steve http://www.ece.McMaster.CA/faculty/georgieva/temp/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22538 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 13:17:34 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 13:17:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 9068 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 13:17:24 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 13:17:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HOXC-0007qG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:16:50 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HOXB-0007q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:16:49 +0000 Received: from [212.1.156.161] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18HOOm-0004li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:08:08 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:16:42 -0000 Message-ID: <01C296E0.64AE4B20.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 13:16:41 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,X_PRIORITY_HIGHversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group There is an awful lot of controversy over the G3LHZ theories on loops...................... Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: James Moritz [SMTP:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] Sent: 2002/11/28 11:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Dear Dave, Rik, LF Group, At 06:36 28/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I have just done a couple of calculations on Rik's loop using >formulae from Mike Underhill G3LHZ (which are quoted on my web site). >Mike says that the maximum Q is in fact limited by the size of the >loop and has a limiting value of Q=500/D, where D is the diameter of >the loop (or for a rectangular loop the circumference divided by pi). >Feeding Rik's dimensions into this gives a maximum Q of 20, and it >will in practice be lower than this due to resistive losses This calculation seems to be wildly divergent from the actual results of less than 1 ohm , amounting to a Q of a few hundred, quoted for "Lowfer" loops a little while back. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9007 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 12:33:02 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 12:33:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 28155 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 12:32:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 12:32:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HNpx-0007bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:32:09 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.47] (helo=mta7-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HNpx-0007bA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:32:09 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.238]) by mta7-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021128123208.HRUL282.mta7-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:32:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c296da$1c2949a0$eee4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000501c2966a$91af9be0$3ed1fc3e@ian> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:19:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kyle" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: LF: 73KHz activity. > System now complete and working with both QRSS and hand speed Morse. Antenna > current around 1.5A with coil in shack. Should be better when I get it into > its own Box outside but in the meantime is anybody interested in a test ? > > 73 de, > > Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ Hi Ian I will listen for you. Let me know QTR and QRG Did PDN call for the wire ? Using the Level meter RX and 90 metre vertical resonated loop at present for RX Loop on LF is E/W 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3457 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 11:53:27 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 11:53:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 25545 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 11:53:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 11:53:18 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HND2-0007QX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:51:56 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HND2-0007QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:51:56 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18HNCC-0003pr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:51:04 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18HNCA-0003Pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:51:02 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021128112913.00b01140@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:50:06 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <3DE5B958.5738.32FCF@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Dave, Rik, LF Group, At 06:36 28/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I have just done a couple of calculations on Rik's loop using >formulae from Mike Underhill G3LHZ (which are quoted on my web site). >Mike says that the maximum Q is in fact limited by the size of the >loop and has a limiting value of Q=500/D, where D is the diameter of >the loop (or for a rectangular loop the circumference divided by pi). >Feeding Rik's dimensions into this gives a maximum Q of 20, and it >will in practice be lower than this due to resistive losses This calculation seems to be wildly divergent from the actual results of less than 1 ohm , amounting to a Q of a few hundred, quoted for "Lowfer" loops a little while back. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19106 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 11:12:01 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 11:12:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21610 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 11:10:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 11:10:21 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HMY4-0007BX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:09:36 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HMY4-0007BO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:09:36 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18HMTJ-0006yA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:04:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18HMT9-0002Go-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:04:31 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021128105738.00a93e50@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 11:04:30 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <001d01c296c4$0ac479c0$1700a8c0@home> References: <000501c2966a$91af9be0$3ed1fc3e@ian> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 09:53 28/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Anyone else be around for a 73kHz activity morning? Dear Dave, Ian, LF Group, I plan to take next Tuesday morning off for some 73kHz activity - As in Dave's case, GI is in roughly the same direction as Rugby from here, so directional antennas don't help much. I just hope Rugby actually does close down for a bit! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14994 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 09:54:11 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 09:54:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 22506 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 09:53:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 09:53:59 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HLLw-0006tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:53:00 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HLLv-0006tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:53:00 +0000 Received: from host213-121-126-226.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.121.126.226] helo=dellboy) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18HLLv-0003va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:52:59 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c296c4$0ac479c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000501c2966a$91af9be0$3ed1fc3e@ian> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:53:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Ian Try your best to get on the air next Tuesday morning. Rugby on 73.5 usually goes off for maintenance and that leaves the band quiet here. I don't think I'd work you with it on the air. (Even with the loop, the nulls would be in the wrong place!) Anyone else be around for a 73kHz activity morning? Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kyle" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: LF: 73KHz activity. > System now complete and working with both QRSS and hand speed Morse. Antenna > current around 1.5A with coil in shack. Should be better when I get it into > its own Box outside but in the meantime is anybody interested in a test ? > > 73 de, > > Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6630 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 08:39:05 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 08:39:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 890 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 08:38:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 08:38:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HKBl-0006d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:38:25 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HKBk-0006cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:38:24 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAS8bsJT042158 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:37:54 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021128091551.02d6a100@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:44:24 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <3DE5B958.5738.32FCF@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello group, many thanks to all who replied on my request. One more thought : if the loop would be very good (= low loss, let's say about 0.5 Ohm) this would mean high current and thus also rather high voltage (as Jim mentioned). The loop would have an inductance of about 120uH (thus XL = 100 Ohm), so pumping 450W into the loop would give a current of 30A and a voltage of 3kV. Isn't it likely that these high voltages will cause some additional losses (there will be some current floating to ground) ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19075 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 08:10:04 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 08:10:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 17802 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 08:10:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 08:10:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HJk2-0006Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:09:46 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HJk2-0006Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 08:09:46 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAS89FJT040520 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:09:15 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021128091317.00b464e8@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 09:15:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <3DE5B958.5738.32FCF@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Dave, A Q of 20 seems very low, it would mean that losses are as high as 5 Ohm (Q = XL/R). But maybe Q is calculated based on the Rrad of 2.5 Ohm, that would explain the low value. 73, Rik >On 25 Nov 2002 at 17:58, Rik Strobbe wrote: > > > I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m > > long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm > > litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). > >I have just done a couple of calculations on Rik's loop using >formulae from Mike Underhill G3LHZ (which are quoted on my web site). >Mike says that the maximum Q is in fact limited by the size of the >loop and has a limiting value of Q=500/D, where D is the diameter of >the loop (or for a rectangular loop the circumference divided by pi). >Feeding Rik's dimensions into this gives a maximum Q of 20, and it >will in practice be lower than this due to resistive losses. This >formula has been derived by Mike from actual measurements on loops >and while I would vouch nothing for its validity myself, measurements >I did on my loop some time ago did indicate it was in the right ball >park figure. Reducing dc resistance will not increase the Q above >this figure and the astronomic voltages and currents rumoured will >not arise. > >The second formula from Mike is his for loop inductance - it gives a >value of 123uH which sounds about right. > >The third of Mike's formulae on my site is his for radiation >resistance. As I have previously found it produces silly values of >radiation resistance for 136 loops - in Rik's case of about 2.5 ohms, >clearly nonsense. > >Regarding currents flowing in the loop (and assuming the Q stays >within the sensible limits above) measurements on my loop done at the >5W level and scaled indicate a loop current of 26A at 400W. This is >probably well in the handling range of Philips 376 polycarbonate >capacitors - GW4ALG used this power with his loop with no problems. >These capacitors are cheap and worth experimenting with. > >73s Dave G3YMC > >dsergeant@iee.org >dsergeant@btinternet.com >http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20595 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 06:34:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 06:34:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 20268 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Nov 2002 06:34:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 06:34:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HIEq-0006F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:33:28 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HIEp-0006Er-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:33:27 +0000 Received: from host213-123-36-112.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.36.112] helo=dave) by einsteinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18HIEo-0001ou-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:33:27 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 06:36:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DE5B958.5738.32FCF@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On 25 Nov 2002 at 17:58, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m > long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm > litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). I have just done a couple of calculations on Rik's loop using formulae from Mike Underhill G3LHZ (which are quoted on my web site). Mike says that the maximum Q is in fact limited by the size of the loop and has a limiting value of Q=500/D, where D is the diameter of the loop (or for a rectangular loop the circumference divided by pi). Feeding Rik's dimensions into this gives a maximum Q of 20, and it will in practice be lower than this due to resistive losses. This formula has been derived by Mike from actual measurements on loops and while I would vouch nothing for its validity myself, measurements I did on my loop some time ago did indicate it was in the right ball park figure. Reducing dc resistance will not increase the Q above this figure and the astronomic voltages and currents rumoured will not arise. The second formula from Mike is his for loop inductance - it gives a value of 123uH which sounds about right. The third of Mike's formulae on my site is his for radiation resistance. As I have previously found it produces silly values of radiation resistance for 136 loops - in Rik's case of about 2.5 ohms, clearly nonsense. Regarding currents flowing in the loop (and assuming the Q stays within the sensible limits above) measurements on my loop done at the 5W level and scaled indicate a loop current of 26A at 400W. This is probably well in the handling range of Philips 376 polycarbonate capacitors - GW4ALG used this power with his loop with no problems. These capacitors are cheap and worth experimenting with. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25699 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 00:27:40 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 00:27:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17041 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 00:27:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 00:27:36 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HCWZ-000574-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:27:23 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.106] (helo=imo-r10.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HCWZ-00056v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:27:23 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.f8.2546199a (4584) for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:26:41 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:26:40 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: DBF_FAST.zip ok Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi David,

no worries in this case: the appendix DBF_FAST.zip (17851 bytes) was included in my last message, containing a bitmap-graph of DBF39's phase evolution during a telegram.

Regards

Markus, DF6NM
[  ^ microsaft-certified signature ;-) ]
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24053 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 00:25:03 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 00:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 6542 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2002 00:24:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2002 00:24:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HCTB-00055O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:23:53 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HCTB-00055F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:23:53 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021128002436.EYRH1635.host3@att.net> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:24:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3DE56216.B03605F4@att.net> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:23:50 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002e01c2966f$74e81be0$5d317bd5@main> Subject: Re: LF: HBG plots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan Melia wrote: > > Hi All, the plots continue to provide interest although I cant find one from > DEX this evening yet......blank plot so far. Alan, Seems to be working here. Is this the URL you are using: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13102 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:49:30 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:49:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 3852 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 23:49:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:49:21 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HBvG-0004xI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:48:50 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HBvG-0004x9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:48:50 +0000 Received: from host213-123-49-93.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.49.93] helo=main) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18HBvF-0002mz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:48:49 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c2966f$74e81be0$5d317bd5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:07:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: HBG plots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All, the plots continue to provide interest although I cant find one from DEX this evening yet......blank plot so far. Laurie, we have to be careful not to read too much into them. They can give general information about the D-layer, but that path is about 1000kms south of us and a bit further east. The detail of any multipath fading will probably be very different to what we would experience. There was a difference even between you and Peter. Also remember our early plots of CFH where I saw peaks and you saw a poor period. Unfortunately we dont know how to recognise a good night yet. I think from John's report (I think it was John ) before he started posting the plots that HBG was stronger last week than maybe it is now. It will be interesting to see if the guys continue for another couple of nights whether last nights Kp=5 and a morning period at 4 have any effect. I feel the effects may not be so dramatic at 75kHz as maybe at 136, and the path may recover more quickly after a few poor nights due to storms. This could be because the wavelength is longer relative to the thickness of the absorbing medium (guess). It does seem that we need a bit of help, so maybe we ought to be looking at conditions closer after a storm, when there are still some deep dips, and maybe some higher than average peaks in between. Certainly so far the 75kHz plots look quite different to my attempts at 136. I also note that there didnt seem to be a peak at 1500z today, so the daytime signal was not making it across. The previous slight lift at 1500z may have been caused by the Kp=7 storm last week. Well done John and Dex, LF is certainly encouraging lots of experimentation, what will loops, spirals and 75k propagation.....Lotsa Fun Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18526 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:32:29 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:32:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21840 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:32:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:32:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HBf7-0004qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:32:09 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.106] (helo=imo-r10.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HBf7-0004pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:32:09 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.176.1207fb62 (16930) for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:31:31 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <176.1207fb62.2b16afd3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:31:31 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: Re: LF: DBF39 phase jump experiment Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/27/02 9:05:06 PM GMT Standard Time, MarkusVester@aol.com writes:


Subj:LF: DBF39 phase jump experiment
Date:11/27/02 9:05:06 PM GMT Standard Time
From:    MarkusVester@aol.com
Sender:    owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Reply-to:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
To:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

File:DBF_FAST.zip (17851 bytes) DL Time (45333 bps): < 1 minute



Dear LF-group,



..................
I've looked through this e-mail from Marcus and cannot find any mention of the attached .zip file.

I have deleted it, without opening, as I do all suspicious attachments.

73

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11463 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:31:44 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:31:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 21259 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:31:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:31:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HBeE-0004pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:31:14 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.171] (helo=cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HBeD-0004pV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:31:13 +0000 Received: from modem-80.bauglir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.136.80] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18HBeC-0001O7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:31:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c2966e$39823a00$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000501c2966a$91af9be0$3ed1fc3e@ian> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:37:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Kyle" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 11:12 PM Subject: LF: 73KHz activity. > System now complete and working with both QRSS and hand speed Morse. Antenna > current around 1.5A with coil in shack. Should be better when I get it into > its own Box outside but in the meantime is anybody interested in a test ? > > 73 de, > > Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ > > Too late tonight ! Tomorrow? am or pm, up to say 4pm Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16421 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:11:09 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25795 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 23:11:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:11:00 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HBK5-0004if-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:10:25 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HBK4-0004iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:10:24 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.209.62]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021127231023.XBGP15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:10:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c2966a$91af9be0$3ed1fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:12:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73KHz activity. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group System now complete and working with both QRSS and hand speed Morse. Antenna current around 1.5A with coil in shack. Should be better when I get it into its own Box outside but in the meantime is anybody interested in a test ? 73 de, Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9174 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:02:29 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:02:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 19511 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 23:02:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:02:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18HBBf-0004fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:01:43 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.2] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18HBBe-0004fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:01:43 +0000 Received: from cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.136) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 23:01:40 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.167.99] by cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 234gkAXBM0301M36; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:01:38 GMT Message-ID: <3DE5473E.4020507@usa.net> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 23:29:18 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Logging & New SpecLab.... Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=CTYPE_JUST_HTML,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group DL4YHF@aol.com wrote:
[...]
By chance, Markus DF6NM has just explained his observations on the DCF39 phase jumps  to me (rewarding, tnx!!). But we are not sure yet if they (at DCF) really care for a high-precision carrier frequency. All I can say now is that the phase jump is always a multiple of  25.7xx° (or so), but WHEN these jump's occur I can't say.
With some luck and a bit of "audio preprocessing in the time domain" it may be possible to make a phase plot of DCF39 with all phase jumps removed, one fine day... but more experimentation must be done.

Would a well-known experienced programmer of beautiful user interfaces like to have the sourcecodes ? ;-)
[...]

Wolf,
   not sure who you are referring to, but may I guess ? The latest versions of SpectrumLab are
continuously improving in their user interfaces, so maybe is its author the hidden subject of
your sentence ?  :-)

73  Alberto  I2PHD

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21126 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 21:04:45 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 21:04:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2360 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 21:04:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 21:04:36 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H9LU-0004KB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:03:44 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.164] (helo=imo-m09.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H9LS-0004K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:03:42 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.1c6.234de67 (3699) for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:03:05 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <1c6.234de67.2b168d08@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:03:04 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: DBF39 phase jump experiment Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040709010202010707060107" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040709010202010707060107 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF-group,

. All I can say now is that the phase jump is always a multiple of  25.7xx° (or so), but WHEN these jump's occur I can't say.


perhaps I should explain my observations:

The phase jumps on the signals of DCF49 (129.93) and DBF39 (138.83) are caused by the phase-continuous FSK modulation during the telegrams, which come irregularly, typically once every 16 seconds. This why on a hi-resolution spectrum the carrier looks like a 60mHz wide noiseband without a central line, and its frequency cannot be determined accurately in a conventional way.

A while ago I had concluded that with 340Hz shift and 200bd datarate, the phaseshift of each single bit excursion from mark to space would be 340/200 periods or 17/10*360 degrees. This has the consequence that the carrier phases in the intervals between the telegrams would always remain on a fixed raster of 36 degrees.

Detailed measurement using SpecLab's IQ-save revealed that there indeed is such a raster, however the bit-phaseshift is 47/28 periods. Frequency shift is as nominal, but the duration of a space-bit is slightly short (4.937ms), and the following mark-bits are prolonged to keep the average baudrate. Apparently all telegrams contain an even number of space-bits, so the phase raster is 1/14 of a carrier period or 25.714 degrees.

You can confirm that in a little experiment: Tune the station to a low audio beat frequency (eg 130Hz) on a stable receiver, and watch at the spectral band with 10mHz resolution (Argo 90s). Then switch back to full band view, and increase the audio signal to overload your soundcard input so that many harmonics are visible. Now take a detailed look at the 14th overtone (1820Hz) ... you will see a sharp line !! - That way, I could  measure the carriers of DCF49 as 129930.015Hz and DBF39 as 138830.033Hz. They seem to be stable at least on a 10mHz scale, but we currently don't know whether they are free-running or somehow locked to UTC or GPS for longterm stability.

This also means that one could actually use DBF39 to study ionospheric effects on signal phase, provided the SNR is still good enough to identify in which of the 14 possible phasestates the carrier is in ( >10dB in 1/16Hz bandwidth). Alternatively, one of us here could publish a log of phasejumps for postprocessing.

Another one worth observing is the 160mW transmitter-intermodulation on 135360.031Hz, a combination of 2xDCF49 minus precise 122500Hz from DCF42's pilot: carrying twice the frequency shift it has a 1/7-period phase raster.

Have fun playing,

73 de Markus, DF6NM
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9yLBrW2PH6mAqGJJ9vMPI24PVvJYpWEegX/QuzjB7tqJBo3PpWziEaWmFjYh7CmXt3GaMF9V 57GzxpyRifjBNiIBdaM8+vyD6b2pqo3VhPncRh6qYOO3s4WHcUqxc3vxSI7FnXkofFde0bBR U+M9bWt4JPcDWRufQ9viQ9t5CJcLbXxtsIKH679L7StZCA0bpb6So3g3HipetbExQ95MeiOP rfEjyXU3LbXII+wvKgthT//ojx/POt5fY6PMS63mEW3NSh5vOj5g9ucxyUJo2ii1bNOi6fUP fq3lEXrrrfmH7L/b6R+t7atFTXf82OQfu/Aox4+apt0/hrtcQ5p53OWaUm5fadO+uss1Zfn8 4y7XlDuP25I7j9uSO4/bkjuP25I7j9uSO4/bkjuP25I7j9uSO4/bkjuP25I7j9uSO4/bkjuP 25Lx/wNQSwECFAAUAAAACADZrHstt7V67kFFAADG6QIADAAAAAAAAAAAACAAtoEAAAAAREJG X0ZBU1QuYm1wUEsFBgAAAAABAAEAOgAAAGtFAAAAAA== --------------040709010202010707060107-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31484 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:23:37 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:23:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 4454 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:23:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:23:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H7mX-00042Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:23:33 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.18] (helo=cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H7mX-00042P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:23:33 +0000 Received: from modem-121.new-york.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.83.121] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18H7mW-00040f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c2964b$9fe82520$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:29:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. HBG dip before sunset. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I have just downloaded last nights/to-days plot from Dex, This is excellent since it shows on one page almost 24hours of propagation. It is interesting that the pre-sunset dip is not visible,I don't think this is due to scale,some other effect perhaps. There is however a dip at 23:00! The peak value about -9dBm is similar to the previous night which is probably not surprising since the Kp index stays high at 3. This work has saved me beaconing and is very valuable,although I wish I understood more about what is going on. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25280 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:16:58 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:16:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 27696 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:16:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H7f8-0003yZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:15:54 +0000 Received: from [213.4.129.135] (helo=tnetmx2.mail.isp) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H7f7-0003yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:15:54 +0000 Received: from ADSL ([217.127.130.21]) by tnetmx2.mail.isp (terra.es) with ESMTP id H691IF01.XRM for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:15:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c29649$88cb5080$0501a8c0@ADSL> From: "Federico Olaizola Zabala" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c2962e$4a099840$7be8fc3e@l8p8y6> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:15:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: tube Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
                                    73 de EA2HB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 5:01 PM
Subject: LF: tube

Hi All
Does anyone have tech info for tube Mullard QZ06-40A, similar to the QV06-40A but does the Z indicate a different heater voltage?
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8281 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:05:45 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:05:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 15581 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 19:05:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 19:05:32 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H7UM-0003sH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:04:46 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H7UL-0003s8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:04:46 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.233.216]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021127190445.QRSS21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:04:45 +0000 Message-ID: <00bb01c29647$cb90bce0$d8e9fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:57:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: tube Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks to all that responded with info about the  QQZ06-40 tube. The tube does have gold plated pins as opposed to the  QQV06-40 with normal pins. It looks like the heater voltage is 2.1 volts and not 6.3 v.
73 and agn tnx de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4547 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 18:57:19 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 18:57:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8068 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 18:57:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 18:57:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H7Mc-0003pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:46 +0000 Received: from [205.188.157.39] (helo=imo-d07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H7Mb-0003pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:56:45 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.c6.15a219bf (4446) for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:56:09 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:56:09 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Subject: Re: LF: Logging & New SpecLab.... Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alan,
thanks for the comments and the info. Other members of the group were doing the tougher part when getting their logging stations running - - -

>>
if we can measure and log phase accurately enough, and do the stations transmit a reliably constant phase.
We know DCF39 does not, but others may be more useful....time data might be
a problem....or it might be an advantage !! measure time ??
<<


By chance, Markus DF6NM has just explained his observations on the DCF39 phase jumps  to me (rewarding, tnx!!). But we are not sure yet if they (at DCF) really care for a high-precision carrier frequency. All I can say now is that the phase jump is always a multiple of  25.7xx° (or so), but WHEN these jump's occur I can't say.
With some luck and a bit of "audio preprocessing in the time domain" it may be possible to make a phase plot of DCF39 with all phase jumps removed, one fine day... but more experimentation must be done.

Would a well-known experienced programmer of beautiful user interfaces like to have the sourcecodes ? ;-)


Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14331 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 18:02:55 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 18:02:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 15121 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 18:02:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 18:02:48 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H6Vz-0003fy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:02:23 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H6Vy-0003fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:02:22 +0000 Received: from host213-121-126-226.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.121.126.226] helo=dellboy) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18H6Vy-0005zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:02:22 +0000 Message-ID: <003801c2963f$3ba57380$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c2962e$4a099840$7be8fc3e@l8p8y6> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:03:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: tube Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
If I remember rightly, the QQ"Z" was a quick-heat version. My book gives the heaters as 2.1V at 4.5A.
 
Dave G3YXM.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: LF: tube

Hi All
Does anyone have tech info for tube Mullard QZ06-40A, similar to the QV06-40A but does the Z indicate a different heater voltage?
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31932 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 17:47:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 17:47:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 2796 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 17:47:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 17:47:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H6BM-0003a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:41:04 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H6BM-0003Zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:41:04 +0000 Received: from host213-122-49-61.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.49.61] helo=main) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18H6BL-00068c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:41:03 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c2963c$0f7ab7a0$3d317ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:39:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: QZ06-40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Mal the QZ06-40 is not in my 1969 book ...I wonder whether that is a QQxxx the double tetrode. As far as I can see the "Z" version is a quick heat heater for "mobile" applications. I think the heater fired up off about 2 volts from an overwind on an inverter (in Pye kit at least) and was up to working temp in a few seconds. Thus it was not necessary to run the valve heater continuously, and flatten the battery. I seem to remember QQZ06-20As (or were they -40As)in 30Watt Pye W30 Westminster long-case boot mount mobile. I think a lot of the valves I came across had gold plated pins too. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7259 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 16:03:21 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 16:03:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17063 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 16:03:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 16:03:28 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18H4dg-0003HN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:02:12 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18H4dg-0003HE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:02:12 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.232.123]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021127160211.KZVJ15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:02:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2962e$4a099840$7be8fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:01:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: tube Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All
Does anyone have tech info for tube Mullard QZ06-40A, similar to the QV06-40A but does the Z indicate a different heater voltage?
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17862 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 08:37:11 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 08:37:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 13133 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 08:37:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 08:37:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Gxfc-0001mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:35:44 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.41] (helo=mta01-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Gxfb-0001m4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:35:44 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021127083537.FLHF8557.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:35:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c295f0$172fe660$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE2C221.165F095@att.net> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 08:36:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: HBG dip before sunset Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > Just looked at W1TAG's HBG plot and saw he has the same sharp dip in > signal but slightly earlier than what I saw. This dip occurred about > half and hour before sunset here. Of course John's sunset is slightly > earlier than mine. > Dexter A reminder for those relatively new to this group that I made a recording of HBG during a total eclipse of the sun a couple of years ago. It can be found at http://www.lf.thersgb.net/gallery/eclipse.htm. Note that HBG is about 750km from me and is always S9 by ground wave. The variation in strength is almost certainly due to interference between the sky and ground waves. Interesting nevertheless. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24369 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 03:19:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 03:19:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23303 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 03:19:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 03:19:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Gsfn-0001Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:15:35 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Gsfm-0001Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:15:35 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA3de438634d3e for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:13:39 +0600 (OS) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:13:46 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "LF-Group" In-reply-to: <003201c295aa$96aa0920$b3a57ad5@main> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Logging & New SpecLab....Tnx Wolf Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Alan and Group. On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Alan Melia wrote: > > If maybe you are screened from some of the ground wave then there could be > interesting plots made. At my location of approx. 700kms from DCF39 I get > get a steady level during the day and some slight variation on that at > night, but only about + / - 6dB. This is probably the effect of equal sky > and ground wave paths at similar strengths interfering. Here in my location (mo64rx) I have no DCF39 sigs at day time. It is not audible and it is not visible by hamview. But at night time it is very strong, somtimes audible (when there is no noises) and it's level seems to be more then 30 dB over noise. So vasriations of signal level is more then 30 dB. Signal is strongest about 30..60 min before sunrise. > I guess the best for plain signal strength logs would be to look for a > "beacon" in Russia in the 50 - 150kHz range. Maybe Alex has some ideas of > signals that plague his receiver but could be "music" to us further west. Unfortunely my RX can recieve 135 - 139 kHz only. So I can't observe beacons. But usualy at evening local time I see very strong and stable carrier on 137.390 kHz (may be (???) it is mirror chanel 132.61 kHz ) wich is on/off iregulary. I do not know what is this. May be it is local signal only. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12412 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2002 00:20:11 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 00:20:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 15868 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Nov 2002 00:20:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2002 00:20:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GpvQ-0000wW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:19:32 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GpvP-0000wN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:19:31 +0000 Received: from host213-122-25-146.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.25.146] helo=main) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18GpvO-0005zS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:19:31 +0000 Message-ID: <003201c295aa$96aa0920$b3a57ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:17:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Logging & New SpecLab....Tnx Wolf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Wolf and all, thanks for leaping to the keyboard and massaging SpectrumLab once again....it is doing sterling work. and makes the monitoring of distant beacons so much more interesting (and useful) I am not sure whether watching HBG and DCF77 will be of much interest at your location Wolf. As far as I see it, we are mainly interested in using these things as a cheap " ionospheric sounder ". So what I believe matters at shorter distances is the difference between the day and night levels. If maybe you are screened from some of the ground wave then there could be interesting plots made. At my location of approx. 700kms from DCF39 I get get a steady level during the day and some slight variation on that at night, but only about + / - 6dB. This is probably the effect of equal sky and ground wave paths at similar strengths interfering. Beyond about 900 kms it starts to get interesting but the two "useful" European paths have been DCF39 to CT1DRP at 1960kms (with some mountains and arid ground in the way....so low ground wave levels) and SXV to G3NYK (over the Alps at 2350kms ...from memory) and SXV to CT1DRP again over 2000kms. Unfortunately ( for some of us ....sorry Markus and Costas) SXV seems not to be using the 135.8 allocation very much in the last 15months. At about 2000kms there would seem to be about 20dB or more between ground wave and night-time skywave, so that the latter predominates. Of course the skywave is there are shorter distances.....maybe this is where we start measuring the phase variation. Because we know the phase of the arriving ground wave...maybe we could interpret the results to give useful data...if we can measure and log phase accurately enough, and do the stations transmit a reliably constant phase. We know DCF39 does not, but others may be more useful....time data might be a problem....or it might be an advantage !! measure time ?? I guess the best for plain signal strength logs would be to look for a "beacon" in Russia in the 50 - 150kHz range. Maybe Alex has some ideas of signals that plague his receiver but could be "music" to us further west. I am beginning to wonder just how simple an LF converter could be to convert 20kHz chunks of LF down to the soundcard inputs, with the appropriate levels of sensitivity. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20773 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 20:31:26 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 20:31:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28884 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 20:31:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 20:31:20 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GmLq-0000Xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:30:34 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.7] (helo=imo-m04.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GmLp-0000Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:30:33 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.1a5.c9c9aad (25508) for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:29:10 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.c9c9aad.2b153396@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:29:10 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: Thoughts about Loops Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Rik and group,

just a few thoughts about your loop project:

- ground reflection
Jim mentioned a while ago the doubling of radiation resistance above ground. I think this is always the case, no matter how lossy the ground is, as long as the skin-depth of the shielding currents is much less than a wavelength / 2pi. - Even with 1mS/m conductivity, the skindepth is only 43m.

- voltage
I also believe that there is the possibility of E-field losses with loops, especially in the parts of the wire that are close to the capacitor. The potential will drop linearly along the wire from there to the voltage minimum at the opposite side. It may be well worthwile to place the "hot" ends somewhere high up in the clear and have the minimum and the coupling structure close to the ground.

- fine tuning
As the main capacitor will then be fairly inaccessible, you could still do the inband-tuning at the transmitter side of the coupler, as the reactive power for this correction would only have to be a few percent of that in the main capacitor and thus the additional losses would be minimal.

- feeding
An alternative to tight transformer-coupling might be loose inductve coupling employing a parallel-resonant tank circuit, directly fed by 50 ohm. It could have a few turns around an an area of perhaps one square meter and be placed in proximity to the loop wire. By shifting or rotating it, you could adjust the coupling to achieve any desired impedance matching.

- calculating eddy current losses
There is a somewhat surprising theorem claiming that eddycurrents induced in a conducting halfspace (ie. earth) will only have components parallel to the surface, no matter what the orientation of the loop is; a vertical loop above ground will induce horizontal figure-eight eddy patterns underneath. I'm not sure, but this seems to imply that the powerloss density in the ground could be calculated simply using the free-space vector potential of the horizontal loop currents alone, without having to solve for the charge-buildup at the surface. By numerical integration of these losses one could then find the optimum height of the bottom wire, at a given top height and length of the loop.

73 and wishing success

Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29519 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 18:29:16 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 18:29:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 1253 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 18:29:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 18:29:16 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GkO9-0000FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:24:49 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GkO9-0000FN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:24:49 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18GkNb-0007jS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:24:15 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18GkNQ-0002xQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:24:04 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021126174220.00b19580@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:22:35 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> <000801c29474$a4e23300$1ee086d4@erica> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Rik, LF Group, I reckon your loop will have inductance of the order of 100uH, so with the kind of currents you are hoping to achieve, the voltage on the loop will reach at least a few kV. With this voltage, I believe you will need insulators between the wire and the tree branches to prevent them getting burnt away where they contact each other. Also, if you use a transformer to "float" the loop, this could have similar voltages between the windings. It is not easy to make a transformer with a large impedance ratio and at the same time low loss and low leakage inductance. I would suggest something like the output transformers used in HF solid state PAs, with a single turn low Z winding of tubing or strip passed through a number of stacked ferrite cores to get sufficient winding inductance. As an alternative to vacuum capacitors for tuning, you could use a variometer of a few uH in series with the loop - it would only need a few metres of wire, and if you used the same litz wire as for the antenna, it would make negligible difference to the loss. BTW - if you get the loss down to 0.2ohm, the Q will be over 400 - so you will certainly need accurate tuning! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27219 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:55:27 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:55:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 9670 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:55:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:55:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GiyT-0008PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:54:13 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GiyT-0008PB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:54:13 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.83]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021126165412.HMYL15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:54:12 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c2956c$63b666a0$53e4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> <000801c29474$a4e23300$1ee086d4@erica> <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:53:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Strobbe" To: Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 4:58 PM Subject: LF: loop antenna > Hello group, > > I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m > long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm > litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). > > Some questions : > > - What distance should I keep to the ground ? It's a tradeoff between loop > area (and thus radiation resistance) and loss resistance. > - What distance should I keep to the greenery (birch trees) ? Same tradeoff > as above but also keeping in mind that the trees are used as antenna > support and that the 7mm litz wire is rather heavy stuff (so from the > mechanical point of view it would be best to have the wire just hanging on > the branches). > - How to match the antenna ? As it is an experimental setup I would tend to > keep the resonance tuning (= series capacitor) and impedance matching (= > transformer) separated. Any experience with a 100/1 .. 400/1 transformer > (matching 50 Ohm of the TX to 0.1 .. 0.4 Ohm of the loop - at least I hope > to get losses that low). > > Some quick and dirty calculations : > If the lower wire is 1m above ground then the loop area is 322m^2 and > radiation resistance is 0.14 .. 0.28 milli-Ohm (let's assume 0.2 milli-Ohm). > 1. if Rloss = 1 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 21A -> EIRP = > 135mW > 2. if Rloss = 0.5 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 30A -> EIRP > = 370mW > 3. if Rloss = 0.2 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 47A -> EIRP > = 675mW > 4. to get 1W EIRP with 450W RF power I would need 71A antenna current and > losses as low as 0.09 Ohm Rik, When I see the sky light up across the north sea, I will know you have fired up with the LOOP The components for the matching network will need to be tough to handle 71A plus of antenna current. Good luck and let us all know how you get on. I am looking for a 25nf/10kv capacitor if you have one spare. de Mal/G3KEV > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19589 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:29:08 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:29:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 6834 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:29:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:29:04 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GiZU-0008AW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:28:24 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GiZU-0008AN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:28:24 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1038328099!18222 Received: (qmail 27173 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:28:19 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:28:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FSGK9; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:31:51 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:28:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John A. says: >Last winter, when I ran the 50ft perimeter loop, I found that laying out several 40 >foot strips of chicken wire made no difference on the impedance bridge >readings. That antenna was 15 meters in circumference, done with a cage of >four #8 wires spaced about 10 cm on centers. Do you know what the resistive component of that bridge measurement was? I should be able calculate the Rac for those conductors based on skin effect and proximity effect. Also, what was the height above ground for this loop? Thanks, Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27043 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:19:15 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:19:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22305 invoked by uid 10001); 26 Nov 2002 16:19:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:19:14 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GiPd-00086m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:18:13 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GiPc-00086d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:18:12 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1038327490!17359 Received: (qmail 15984 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 16:18:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-10.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 16:18:10 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:18:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FSGG8; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:21:39 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:18:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:17:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group -----Original Message----- From: John Andrews [mailto:w1tag@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 10:57 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Bill, > I suggest the transformer approach because when the loop conductor will have > some leakage current to the trees (it's small Mal ) and this will be > minimized if the loop is allowed to float relative to ground. Of course, you could just add a 1:1 transformer on the "50 ohm" side to float the ground. The 2-capacitor method does have the advantage of permitting precise impedance transformations. It has the disadvantage of requiring two vacuum variables at amateur power levels. > My latest loop experiment is an octagonal TX loop with 3/4" X 10ft sides > with a calculated Rac of .045 ohms for the conductor alone. Hope to be able > to show that the ground loss tapers off to near 0 ohms when it's raised it > to 50ft. If it doesn't fall off significantly, this may show the reflected > radiated field absorption in addition to the magnetic field absorption is > part of the Rac equation. Has anyone performed or know of an experiment like > this at LF? If radiation reflection is at work here it may be possible to > add a ground screen to improve matters. Last winter, when I ran the "legal loop," I found that laying out several 40 foot strips of chicken wire made no difference on the impedance bridge readings. That antenna was 15 meters in circumference, done with a cage of four #8 wires spaced about 10 cm on centers. John Andrews _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16432 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 15:55:20 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 15:55:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 22170 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 15:55:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 15:55:14 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Gi2g-0007zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:54:30 +0000 Received: from [206.173.118.93] (helo=uhura.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Gi2f-0007zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:54:29 +0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gAQFsQC04076 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:54:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id KAA20440; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:54:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002e01c29564$7e6965e0$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:57:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Bill, > I suggest the transformer approach because when the loop conductor will have > some leakage current to the trees (it's small Mal ) and this will be > minimized if the loop is allowed to float relative to ground. Of course, you could just add a 1:1 transformer on the "50 ohm" side to float the ground. The 2-capacitor method does have the advantage of permitting precise impedance transformations. It has the disadvantage of requiring two vacuum variables at amateur power levels. > My latest loop experiment is an octagonal TX loop with 3/4" X 10ft sides > with a calculated Rac of .045 ohms for the conductor alone. Hope to be able > to show that the ground loss tapers off to near 0 ohms when it's raised it > to 50ft. If it doesn't fall off significantly, this may show the reflected > radiated field absorption in addition to the magnetic field absorption is > part of the Rac equation. Has anyone performed or know of an experiment like > this at LF? If radiation reflection is at work here it may be possible to > add a ground screen to improve matters. Last winter, when I ran the "legal loop," I found that laying out several 40 foot strips of chicken wire made no difference on the impedance bridge readings. That antenna was 15 meters in circumference, done with a cage of four #8 wires spaced about 10 cm on centers. John Andrews From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11630 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 15:11:58 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 15:11:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 10631 invoked by uid 10001); 26 Nov 2002 15:11:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 15:11:54 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GhLt-0007rF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:10:17 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GhLt-0007r2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:10:17 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-5.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1038323410!11626 Received: (qmail 637 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 15:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-5.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 15:10:10 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:10:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FSFJA; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:13:44 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:10:09 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:10:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Loop Admiration Society members, and friends: >You may like to consider a totally capacitor matching network as shown on my website. I suggest the transformer approach because when the loop conductor will have some leakage current to the trees (it's small Mal ) and this will be minimized if the loop is allowed to float relative to ground. My latest loop experiment is an octagonal TX loop with 3/4" X 10ft sides with a calculated Rac of .045 ohms for the conductor alone. Hope to be able to show that the ground loss tapers off to near 0 ohms when it's raised it to 50ft. If it doesn't fall off significantly, this may show the reflected radiated field absorption in addition to the magnetic field absorption is part of the Rac equation. Has anyone performed or know of an experiment like this at LF? If radiation reflection is at work here it may be possible to add a ground screen to improve matters. Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13362 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 09:09:31 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 09:09:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 8757 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 09:09:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 09:09:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GbiA-0006ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:08:54 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GbiA-0006em-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:08:54 +0000 Received: from host213-122-246-201.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.246.201] helo=dave) by einsteinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18Gbi8-00013n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:08:52 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:11:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DE33AAB.3296.918659@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Re: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.9 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On 25 Nov 2002 at 17:58, Rik Strobbe wrote: > I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m > long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm > litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). Excellent news! Hope it works out well. You may like to consider a totally capacitor matching network as shown on my website. This may be a problem at high powers but nothing like as bad as some on this reflector prophesy. Philips 376 capacitors are pretty beefy components and can handling pretty big currents. Doing this will eliminate any loss in the matching transformer. There may however be some virtue in using a transformer to provide a balanced feed - see the arrangement Steve GW4ALG used when he was active on the band (http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/intro.htm) which is a variation of mine. Steve made the mistake of having his matching network remote in the shack, so his feeder loss was in series with the loop resistance - the transformation to 50 ohms MUST be done right at the feedpoint. Your hoped for 0.04 ohms looks rather optimistic! If it is really going to be this low then height above ground may be important. In my case the effective ground coupling loss relates to around 0.3ohms, half of my total loss. You may find it hard to reduce this low enough, even by raising the loop quite high above ground, to avoid swamping your wire loss. In my case, the base of the loop is only around 0.5m above ground, and runs against my garden fence. This was a compromise, as it was in any case difficult to get it in the clear and putting the base higher without being able to increase the height of the top would result in the loop area being reduced. Swings and roundabouts, and probably why it never really worked that well. Good luck, keep us informed. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5985 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 08:50:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 08:50:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 19378 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 08:49:58 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 08:49:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GbLd-0006XB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:45:37 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GbLd-0006X2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:45:37 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAQ8j6Bc049162 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:45:06 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021126093630.02a65328@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:51:32 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Bill, >First. Is 7mm the actual wire diam or the wire plus insulation? 7mm is de actual diameter, there is no extra isolation around the whole bunch of wires. > >What distance should I keep to the ground ? > >I like 6 feet as the best compromise. The ground loss will amount to about >1/2 of your total loss loss with a loop this size and conductor Rac this >low. I'll give you a number later, based on my data. OK, I'll keep the lower part 2m - 6ft8 from the ground for practical reasons (I'm 1m90 - 6ft4) > >What distance should I keep to the greenery (birch trees) > >The trees will have almost no effect. I run my conductor (now a 1/2" Cu >pipe, in full contact with the trees (see my loop website at >http://www.ThePittsfieldInn.com/Bill/ for a picture of this), but it's a >good idea to have some spacing at the lower portions of the loop where the >voltage to ground is the highest. Also, you will have to protect the Litz >wire from abrasion from the trees. That's a valuable piece of cable! That sounds great, 'close contact' to the trees would allow me to increase the loop area from 300m^2 to 350m^2. > >How to match the antenna ? As it is an experimental setup I would tend to > >keep the resonance tuning (= series capacitor) and impedance matching (= > >transformer) separated. > >DO NOT separate these components! This a very common mistake. The >transformer and capacitor bank must be next to the loop feed point or the >losses will kill you. OK. I didn't mean to put them at different places, just to make resonance tuning and impedance matching independent of each other. What I had in mind was something like fig.2b in your loop article (http://www.thepittsfieldinn.com/Bill/Loop1.htm) 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21837 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 02:25:46 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 02:25:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29568 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 02:25:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 02:25:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GVPN-0005TC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:25:05 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.8] (helo=imo-m05.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GVPM-0005T1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:25:04 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.178.124eedd1 (14374) for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <178.124eedd1.2b143557@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:24:23 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: HBG dip before sunset Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Dexter and John

Compare John's signal plot with mine.
http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg
http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg


... fascinating!

Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 997 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 00:37:24 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 00:37:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 19610 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 00:37:18 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 00:37:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GTiU-0005Al-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:36:42 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GTiT-0005Ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:36:41 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021126003725.QNUA605.host3@att.net> for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:37:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3DE2C221.165F095@att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:36:49 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: HBG dip before sunset Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Just looked at W1TAG's HBG plot and saw he has the same sharp dip in signal but slightly earlier than what I saw. This dip occurred about half and hour before sunset here. Of course John's sunset is slightly earlier than mine. Compare John's signal plot with mine. http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4802 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2002 00:21:29 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 00:21:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 19395 invoked by uid 10001); 26 Nov 2002 00:21:39 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2002 00:21:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GTTH-00054L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:20:59 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.69] (helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GTTH-00054C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:20:59 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021126002210.SFVI611.host4@att.net> for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:22:10 -0500 Message-ID: <3DE2BE72.9870F4D5@att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:21:06 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: See latest HBG at new URL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I am now posting the latest HBG plots as received in North Carolina at this url: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/hbg.jpg I will update this plot at about 15 min intervals. This will be a lot easier to view than last night's multitude of captures. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12523 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 22:44:08 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 22:44:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18326 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 22:44:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 22:44:02 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GRtZ-0004lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:40:01 +0000 Received: from [205.188.157.34] (helo=imo-d02.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GRtY-0004lK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:40:00 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.ce.307a0097 (26116) for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:39:24 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:39:24 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: SXV in QPSK31? Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Goup,

on 135934Hz since 2200 UT there is a strong QPSK31 signal, about 29dBuV/m from southeast, appearing to be SXV. I can read it with G3PLX's PSK31-SB, the error correction seems to accept it but only rubbish on screen, so probably encrypted. I wonder whether they might like to have a QSO...

73 de Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9698 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 22:02:58 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 22:02:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 27165 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 22:02:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 22:02:53 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GRJ6-0004ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:02:20 +0000 Received: from [207.155.198.79] (helo=darius.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GRJ6-0004eT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:02:20 +0000 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gAPM2Gu24649 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:02:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id RAA14369; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:02:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004201c294ce$b239c720$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001c01c294ca$75536720$205d063e@main> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:04:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: HBG de W1TAG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan, I'm planning to let this run until Thursday morning. I will be doing some antenna work at that point that would throw everything out of whack. You should look at W4DEX's data to see if it shows a similar peak and dip. Our fading times last night were different. SR time here is presently 11:50z, and SS is 2118z. Let's see what happens tomorrow! John Andrews From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15700 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 21:35:55 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 21:35:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 23100 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 21:35:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 21:35:49 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GQsj-0004YJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:35:05 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GQsj-0004YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:35:05 +0000 Received: from host62-6-93-32.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.93.32] helo=main) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18GQsi-0002It-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:35:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c294ca$75536720$205d063e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:30:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: HBG de W1TAG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John, your plot continues to be interesting. The little (well 10dB !!) peak at 1500z looks like it roughly corresponds to the time when the sun is due south (i.e. radiation strongest) at the mid point of the path. To my thinking this indicates that there is perhaps a one-hop mode operating. We have sometimes seen this when there has been daytime transmission of CFH due to geomagnetic storms. I believe that DCF39 which is stronger than CFH shows this effect often......certainly John VE1ZJ mentioned it several times. I think , although I have not checked it on geoclock, that the dip at 0915z this "morning" might correspond to the dawn at the mid-path point (at 90kms altitude, rather than at sea level) I have not normally seen a deep dip on East<>West paths so I am not sure about that one. It will be interesting to see if it occurs every "morning". I believe it could be the sun illuminating the D-layer from underneath (as described in a Bob Brown paper in QEX ) and building up a thick absorbing layer. As later the sun's altitude increases, it pushes up the electron density still further but from above and forces the "reflection level" down reducing the thickness of the absorbing layer that the waves must tranverse. Don't take this a gospel.....I am just trying to make sense of it in my own way.......and waiting for someone to say "that is rubbish because....". You sometimes have to stick your neck out to get a good discussion going !! Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30478 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 19:29:00 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 19:29:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 9281 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 19:28:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 19:28:57 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GOso-0004E8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:27:02 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GOsn-0004Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:27:01 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-18.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1038252416!3716 Received: (qmail 28853 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 19:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-18.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 19:26:56 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:26:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FR8LR; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:30:28 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:26:51 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:26:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,NO_EXPERIENCE, SPAM_PHRASE_02_03version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Rik, >I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m >long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm >litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). Delighted to read about what you are up to! First. Is 7mm the actual wire diam or the wire plus insulation? >What distance should I keep to the ground ? I like 6 feet as the best compromise. The ground loss will amount to about 1/2 of your total loss loss with a loop this size and conductor Rac this low. I'll give you a number later, based on my data. >What distance should I keep to the greenery (birch trees) The trees will have almost no effect. I run my conductor (now a 1/2" Cu pipe, in full contact with the trees (see my loop website at http://www.ThePittsfieldInn.com/Bill/ for a picture of this), but it's a good idea to have some spacing at the lower portions of the loop where the voltage to ground is the highest. Also, you will have to protect the Litz wire from abrasion from the trees. That's a valuable piece of cable! >How to match the antenna ? As it is an experimental setup I would tend to >keep the resonance tuning (= series capacitor) and impedance matching (= >transformer) separated. DO NOT separate these components! This a very common mistake. The transformer and capacitor bank must be next to the loop feed point or the losses will kill you. >Any experience with a 100/1 .. 400/1 transformer >(matching 50 Ohm of the TX to 0.1 .. 0.4 Ohm of the loop - at least I hope >to get losses that low). I have no experience with high power cores but the ratios look correct. Suggest a focussing some attention to core losses. >if Rloss = 0.2 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 47A -> EIRP = 675mW A loop this large will perform well, Rik, if you pay close attention to the transformer, and capacitor bank. The effectiveness once the area is fixed is all in the loop current. Good luck! Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5213 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 16:56:11 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 16:56:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 15512 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 16:56:07 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 16:56:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GMWW-0003o0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:55:52 +0000 Received: from [64.136.24.74] (helo=m11.bos.untd.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GMWW-0003nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:55:52 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewAjjosXQXeLE/mgaSS1J5I7ck+4HXxQ8XA=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.bos.untd.com (jqueuemail) id HJGQZE9A; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:54:28 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:50:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20021125.105147.-672169.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: riese-k3djc@juno.com Subject: LF: ping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2034 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 16:53:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 13280 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 16:53:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 16:53:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GMSy-0003mE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:52:12 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GMSx-0003ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:52:11 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAPGpe27031426 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021125171906.00b9d028@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:58:05 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> References: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> <000801c29474$a4e23300$1ee086d4@erica> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: loop antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello group, I am about to put up a transmitting loop antenna. Dimensions will be 23m long and 15m high. Thanks to Dick (PA0SE) I could achieve a wheel of 7mm litz wire, so wire losses should be minimized (about 0.04 Ohm). Some questions : - What distance should I keep to the ground ? It's a tradeoff between loop area (and thus radiation resistance) and loss resistance. - What distance should I keep to the greenery (birch trees) ? Same tradeoff as above but also keeping in mind that the trees are used as antenna support and that the 7mm litz wire is rather heavy stuff (so from the mechanical point of view it would be best to have the wire just hanging on the branches). - How to match the antenna ? As it is an experimental setup I would tend to keep the resonance tuning (= series capacitor) and impedance matching (= transformer) separated. Any experience with a 100/1 .. 400/1 transformer (matching 50 Ohm of the TX to 0.1 .. 0.4 Ohm of the loop - at least I hope to get losses that low). Some quick and dirty calculations : If the lower wire is 1m above ground then the loop area is 322m^2 and radiation resistance is 0.14 .. 0.28 milli-Ohm (let's assume 0.2 milli-Ohm). 1. if Rloss = 1 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 21A -> EIRP = 135mW 2. if Rloss = 0.5 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 30A -> EIRP = 370mW 3. if Rloss = 0.2 Ohm and 450W RF power -> antenna current = 47A -> EIRP = 675mW 4. to get 1W EIRP with 450W RF power I would need 71A antenna current and losses as low as 0.09 Ohm 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24032 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 11:31:01 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 11:31:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 23421 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 11:31:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 11:31:09 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GHRD-0002sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:03 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.15] (helo=mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GHRC-0002rr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:02 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 33111153 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:29:31 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c29475$f77f6140$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> <000801c29474$a4e23300$1ee086d4@erica> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:29:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: See HGB received in NC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter, > I suggest that you make a plot that records the data over a six or eight > hour period and post daily in a similar manner to what Alan does. (Does > SpecLab allow this?). I'm playing with this, too. A plot of the last 8 hours may be seen at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg The times are UTC. I'll let this run until tonight. Unfortunately, I don't have a second receiver to dedicate to the process. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30117 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 11:21:00 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 11:21:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 14099 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 11:20:56 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 11:20:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18GHH6-0002oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:19:36 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GHH6-0002oG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:19:36 +0000 Received: from tnt-18-30.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.224.30] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18GHH4-0001Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c29474$a4e23300$1ee086d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:19:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: See HGB received in NC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Dex > I'm working on building a dedicated system for monitoring LF signals. > For a test I am presently recording HBG 75 KHz and posting to a web page > which updates every 15 minuets. Time on the Spectrum Lab plotter is > UTC. Times on the index page when the files were loaded are UTC -5 > hours. I started this run at local solar noon. HBG's signal is now > steadily rising. > > From this page click on the highest HBG number to see the latest capture > which should be no older than 15 minuets. > > http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/ > I think that this is a splendid effort, however I do have a couple of suggestions. By posting an update every 15mins you are very soon going to be overwhelmed with data. I suggest that you make a plot that records the data over a six or eight hour period and post daily in a similar manner to what Alan does. (Does SpecLab allow this?). This would allow us all to compare the signal strengths over a period and see if it can be correlated with any other data and make possible predictions of good 73kHz TA conditions. They might not be the same as for 136kHz. A 15min near real time is very useful when deciding or running 73kHz tests and perhaps they could be given in text as a data figure in dBs (that relate to your chart), which could go to your site or the LF reflector as an e-mail. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25747 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2002 00:19:12 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 00:19:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 3721 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Nov 2002 00:19:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2002 00:19:19 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G6x2-0000bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:18:12 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G6x2-0000bI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:18:12 +0000 Received: from host213-1-185-234.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.185.234] helo=main) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18G6x1-0000nB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:18:11 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c29418$1276d9a0$eab901d5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:08:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: HBG plots from DEX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Dex they look interesting. You dont seem to have any dramatic level shifts, which is just a bit surprising. There was a storm on the 21st which should really be beginning to have some effect now.....silly question.....you do have the AGC off, I presume?? Otherwise I think the noise trace would give the game away. Are these levels similar to those you found a few days ago when you were experimenting? or are they already depressed?? Are you saving the text-file as well as posting the current plots? Those will be more interesting to work back through again as you collect more data. Great job ...well done (Thanks to Wolf ...again!) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4181 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 23:16:36 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 23:16:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 8940 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 23:16:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G5uK-0000Ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:11:20 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.174] (helo=cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G5uK-0000Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:11:20 +0000 Received: from modem-61.amras.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.61] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18G5uJ-0000G6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c2940f$f00e8960$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:17:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. See HBG recieved in NC in near real time. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Dex, This is good, we are entering an interesting period and I was considering beacon transmissions to check propagation.If you can continue with these reports we should be able to gather some very useful information. I would particularly like to see an all night plot say 8 hours. Thanks Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6327 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 21:41:47 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 21:41:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 17781 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Nov 2002 21:41:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 21:41:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G4U4-0008V7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:40:08 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.10] (helo=smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G4U4-0008Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:40:08 +0000 Received: from tnt-18-202.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.224.202] helo=erica) by smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G4U3-000LIO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:40:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c29402$2be3f3c0$cae086d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:38:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: See HGB received in NC near real time Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Dexter > I'm working on building a dedicated system for monitoring LF signals. > For a test I am presently recording HBG 75 KHz and posting to a web page > which updates every 15 minuets. Time on the Spectrum Lab plotter is > UTC. Times on the index page when the files were loaded are UTC -5 > hours. I started this run at local solar noon. HBG's signal is now > steadily rising. This looks like a good 73kHz propagation indicator and we should be able to see how it correlates with the K index, which was around 3 at around 2100UTC. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3151 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 20:17:37 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 20:17:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 2806 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 20:17:28 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 20:17:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G3Ag-0008DA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:16:02 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G3Ag-0008D1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:16:02 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021124201646.ZOQN327.host3@att.net> for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:16:46 -0500 Message-ID: <3DE1338E.2F1E9274@att.net> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:16:14 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: See HGB received in NC near real time Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I'm working on building a dedicated system for monitoring LF signals. For a test I am presently recording HBG 75 KHz and posting to a web page which updates every 15 minuets. Time on the Spectrum Lab plotter is UTC. Times on the index page when the files were loaded are UTC -5 hours. I started this run at local solar noon. HBG's signal is now steadily rising. >From this page click on the highest HBG number to see the latest capture which should be no older than 15 minuets. http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/75khz/ Please tell me if you have any suggestions. If I knew what I was doing I wouldn't be having as much fun. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30957 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 19:00:02 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 19:00:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 17958 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 18:59:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 18:59:55 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G1xT-0007oZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:58:19 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.203] (helo=mail4.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G1xS-0007oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:58:18 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d95.as1.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.223]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAOIwHt14350; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:58:17 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: dibene@usa.net Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:58:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3DE10499.9000505@usa.net> Subject: RE: LF: Win 95 ARGO v.130 bug...fixed... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alberto, Yes it works perfect. Thank you very much. Beautiful program. It looks so much nicer than before. Thanks, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html 185.3026kc QRSS-30 & CW@15wpm ID is "WE" -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:56 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Win 95 ARGO v.130 bug??? WE0H wrote: >Hi Alberto, >Here is what I see after the install when I try to run the new ARGO. Two >error windows open up and they each say "C:\argo\argo.exe" "A device >attached to the system is not functioning". The second window says "Error >starting program". "The argo.exe file is linked to missing export >OLEAUT32.DLL:173". > > > Hi Mike, ha, the old OLEAUT32 problem ! That is easy... you simply have an outdated OLEAUT32.DLL file in your PC. To download the latest version, go here : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/oleaut32.zip Unzip the file into the C:\Windows\System directory, answering YES to the message about replacing an existing file. Then Argo should work ok. If not, let me know. 73 Alberto I2PHD _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22660 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 16:57:11 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 16:57:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 7879 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Nov 2002 16:57:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 16:57:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18G029-0007S8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:55:01 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.2] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18G028-0007Rx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:55:00 +0000 Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 16:54:58 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.171.16] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 301gkXqzs0398M38; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:51:18 GMT Message-ID: <3DE10499.9000505@usa.net> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:55:53 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Win 95 ARGO v.130 bug??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group WE0H wrote: >Hi Alberto, >Here is what I see after the install when I try to run the new ARGO. Two >error windows open up and they each say "C:\argo\argo.exe" "A device >attached to the system is not functioning". The second window says "Error >starting program". "The argo.exe file is linked to missing export >OLEAUT32.DLL:173". > > > Hi Mike, ha, the old OLEAUT32 problem ! That is easy... you simply have an outdated OLEAUT32.DLL file in your PC. To download the latest version, go here : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/oleaut32.zip Unzip the file into the C:\Windows\System directory, answering YES to the message about replacing an existing file. Then Argo should work ok. If not, let me know. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23118 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2002 15:48:13 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 15:48:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 11468 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Nov 2002 15:48:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2002 15:48:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Fyt1-00078T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:41:31 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.202] (helo=mail3.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Fyt0-00078K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:41:30 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d145.as1.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.171.51]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAOFfS870089; Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: dibene@usa.net Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:41:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3DDE660A.20108@usa.net> Subject: LF: Win 95 ARGO v.130 bug??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alberto, Here is what I see after the install when I try to run the new ARGO. Two error windows open up and they each say "C:\argo\argo.exe" "A device attached to the system is not functioning". The second window says "Error starting program". "The argo.exe file is linked to missing export OLEAUT32.DLL:173". I am running a Pentium 133 laptop with 48m of memory. ARGO v.128 runs and installs perfect in the same C:\argo folder. I tried a fresh install into an empty folder and also just over writing the old data in the original Argo folder. Each install method produces the same two Windows error windows. I hope this helps you out. I really want to run the latest version. Thanks es 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html >Mike, thanks for the report. Could you please try again and take note of >the exact error you get ? >If the error happens when installing, before you can actually launch the >program, then >Argo is not the culprit, but rather WinRAR, which is used for the >self-expansion of the >package. Thanks. >73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11938 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2002 08:45:26 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Nov 2002 08:45:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28733 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2002 08:45:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2002 08:45:18 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FVq6-0000ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:40:34 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.104] (helo=imo-r08.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18FVq5-0000yR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:40:33 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.1be.15506858 (4529) for ; Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:40:00 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <1be.15506858.2b1098e0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 03:40:00 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Subject: LF: Argo Tests under Win XP Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto,

I tried your latest release - again a nice piece of art !

No problems when running a single program instance under Win XP (on a 1.7 GHz machine), stable for hours.

Then I played a trick to consume a bit more  CPU power: I started a 2nd, 3rd and 4th instance of Argo which was ok for a few seconds. Then, one of the instances only produced horizontal lines on the waterfall screen with no more sign of life. It stayed this way, even after closing the other instances. As you already guessed, it may be a timing or synchronization problem with the sound-acquiring thread. Maybe this is a trick to test the programt under "very adverse circumstances".

Cheers and have a nice weekend,

Wolf DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10560 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 22:18:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 22:18:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 13741 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 22:18:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 22:18:49 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FM7X-0007uD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:17:55 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.202] (helo=mail3.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18FM7W-0007u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:17:54 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d67.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.67]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAMMHrZ56670 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:17:53 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:19:29 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3DDE660A.20108@usa.net> Subject: RE: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Yes it did give me the message when I tried to run ARGO after the install. I will try it again tonight and write down the message. If I remember correct, it was missing some file. I'll let you know later what it said. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 11:15 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed WE0H wrote: >I got a weird error message when trying to install it on my P166 laptop with >Win95 OSR2. V.128 works fine on it. > >Mike>WE0H > > Mike, thanks for the report. Could you please try again and take note of the exact error you get ? If the error happens when installing, before you can actually launch the program, then Argo is not the culprit, but rather WinRAR, which is used for the self-expansion of the package. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12721 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 17:35:50 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:35:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 20860 invoked by uid 10001); 22 Nov 2002 17:35:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:35:46 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FHer-000796-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:32:01 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.111] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18FHeq-00078x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:32:00 +0000 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:31:58 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.181.174] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 750gkVRf40294M28; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:31:56 GMT Message-ID: <3DDE6919.3020505@usa.net> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:27:53 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net References: <001301c291be$853bd5a0$94467ad5@main> Subject: Re: LF: Alberto and the fox...... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan Melia wrote: >Hi all, it sounds like a fairytale from a well known Danish writer......Hi >Alberto you will be allowed to hunt bugs and foxes in the UK ....but you >must not use a dog (or dogs) for sniffing them out.....I presume this will >apply to truffles too !! Secretly there is great interest in cloning Babe >!! >No problems here on Win95b or Win98. > > Alan, thanks. Then, I will have to let my schnauzer dog home, when I'll go hunting :-) And she is not much interested in truffles, anyway, let alone program bugs... foxes are ruled out, we don't have many left in Italy, as far as I know. Seriously, if all those who have Windows XP or 2000 could do a test of Argo, and report the outcomes, that would help. Judging from the screen capture that Gary has sent, it looks like in his case the program continues to run, just the audio buffers are not refreshed anymore, as if the sound-acquiring thread were stuck somehow. Thanks for the cooperation, 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17898 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 17:35:48 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:35:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 18838 invoked by uid 10001); 22 Nov 2002 17:35:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:35:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FHeo-00078t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:31:58 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.111] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18FHen-00078k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:31:57 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 17:31:54 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.181.174] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 274gkVRfz0355M31; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:31:51 GMT Message-ID: <3DDE660A.20108@usa.net> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:14:50 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group WE0H wrote: >I got a weird error message when trying to install it on my P166 laptop with >Win95 OSR2. V.128 works fine on it. > >Mike>WE0H > > Mike, thanks for the report. Could you please try again and take note of the exact error you get ? If the error happens when installing, before you can actually launch the program, then Argo is not the culprit, but rather WinRAR, which is used for the self-expansion of the package. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20962 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 16:51:59 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 16:51:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 25980 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 16:51:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 16:51:53 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18FH0X-0006yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:50:21 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18FH0W-0006yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:50:20 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.232.174]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021122165020.VYAI15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:50:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c29247$2f26cb00$aee8fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:48:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "WE0H" To: Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:00 AM Subject: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed > I got a weird error message when trying to install it on my P166 laptop with > Win95 OSR2. V.128 works fine on it. Its my P166 laptop that seems to give most trouble with Argo. The computer is a Compaq P166/Intel Pentumum 32kb ram with Win 95 and dont understand why it crashes with argo, other progs QRS etc seem to run ok. G3KEV > > Mike>WE0H > http://www.we0h.us/lf.html > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19076 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 08:08:20 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 08:08:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 25486 invoked by uid 10001); 22 Nov 2002 08:08:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 08:08:19 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18F8qd-0005Gd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:07:35 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.43] (helo=mta03-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18F8qd-0005GU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:07:35 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021122080734.QHRD28295.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:07:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c291fe$54079920$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DDCE462.5070003@usa.net> <000601c2916c$47f48d60$9d740450@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:08:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > I am using Windows ME on a 600MHz Pentium. Argo was stable for over an hour > this morning. Will do an overnight test just to make sure. The overnight test was fine. No problems. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26995 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 00:32:43 -0000 Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 00:32:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 20169 invoked by uid 10001); 22 Nov 2002 00:32:42 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 00:32:42 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18F1js-0004GL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:32:08 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18F1js-0004GC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:32:08 +0000 Received: from host213-122-70-148.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.70.148] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18F1jr-0002qG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:32:07 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c291be$853bd5a0$94467ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:08:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Alberto and the fox...... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, it sounds like a fairytale from a well known Danish writer......Hi Alberto you will be allowed to hunt bugs and foxes in the UK ....but you must not use a dog (or dogs) for sniffing them out.....I presume this will apply to truffles too !! Secretly there is great interest in cloning Babe !! No problems here on Win95b or Win98. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21024 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 00:00:30 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 00:00:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 332 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2002 00:00:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2002 00:00:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18F1Dd-00048k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:58:49 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.205] (helo=mail0.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18F1Dd-00048b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 23:58:49 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d81.as1.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.209]) by mail0.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gALNwlg42166 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:58:47 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:00:16 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3DDCE462.5070003@usa.net> Subject: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I got a weird error message when trying to install it on my P166 laptop with Win95 OSR2. V.128 works fine on it. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:49 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed G4WGT wrote: >Hi Alberto & All, > >Still having problems with Argo (Peace Treaty Version). >[...] > > Richard.Gasparik@siemens.com wrote : > The same here, still a problem. I'm running Win2k, Service pack 3, Notebook > with Pentium III 700MHz and 256MB RAM. Gary and Rich, thanks for your reports. Something seems still to be done. But it would be interesting to know whether the problem happens only with Windows 2000, which both of you seem to use, or with other opsys too. So, if someone is having similar problems on a platform other than Windows 2000, please report it. I will wait a few days for reports, before starting a new hunt... (wasn't the hunt to the fox on discussion to be banned in the UK ? :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32355 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 14:54:01 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 14:54:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16521 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Nov 2002 14:54:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 14:54:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Eshg-0002sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:53:16 +0000 Received: from [204.60.203.69] (helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Eshf-0002sg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:53:15 +0000 Received: from snet.net (12.220.252.64.snet.net [64.252.220.12]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id gALEmNoG004593 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:48:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DDCF60F.9FE4799C@snet.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:04:47 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DDCE462.5070003@usa.net> <000601c2916c$47f48d60$9d740450@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alberto: New ARGO is fine on my Win98 PII/450 for two overnight capture sessions. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Mike Dennison wrote: > > But it would be interesting to know whether the problem happens only > > with Windows 2000, which both of you seem to use, or with other opsys too. > > So, if someone is having similar problems on a platform other than > > Windows 2000, please report it. I will wait a few days for reports, before > > starting a new hunt... (wasn't the hunt to the fox on discussion to be > banned > > in the UK ? :-) > > I am using Windows ME on a 600MHz Pentium. Argo was stable for over an hour > this morning. Will do an overnight test just to make sure. > > Mike, G3XDV > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31140 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 14:42:48 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 14:42:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 26641 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 14:42:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 14:42:48 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EsWp-0002nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:03 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.45] (helo=mta05-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EsWp-0002nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:03 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021121144202.BWDY16799.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:02 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c2916c$47f48d60$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DDCE462.5070003@usa.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:42:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > But it would be interesting to know whether the problem happens only > with Windows 2000, which both of you seem to use, or with other opsys too. > So, if someone is having similar problems on a platform other than > Windows 2000, please report it. I will wait a few days for reports, before > starting a new hunt... (wasn't the hunt to the fox on discussion to be banned > in the UK ? :-) I am using Windows ME on a 600MHz Pentium. Argo was stable for over an hour this morning. Will do an overnight test just to make sure. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5143 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 13:51:03 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 13:51:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 26428 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 13:50:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 13:50:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Eri2-0002dN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:49:34 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.111] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Eri1-0002dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:49:33 +0000 Received: from uadvg129.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.129) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 13:49:31 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.175.229] by uadvg129.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 558gkuNxC0376M29; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:49:28 GMT Message-ID: <3DDCE462.5070003@usa.net> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:49:22 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group G4WGT wrote: >Hi Alberto & All, > >Still having problems with Argo (Peace Treaty Version). >[...] > > Richard.Gasparik@siemens.com wrote : > The same here, still a problem. I'm running Win2k, Service pack 3, Notebook > with Pentium III 700MHz and 256MB RAM. Gary and Rich, thanks for your reports. Something seems still to be done. But it would be interesting to know whether the problem happens only with Windows 2000, which both of you seem to use, or with other opsys too. So, if someone is having similar problems on a platform other than Windows 2000, please report it. I will wait a few days for reports, before starting a new hunt... (wasn't the hunt to the fox on discussion to be banned in the UK ? :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13651 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 12:02:48 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 12:02:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 3299 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 10:34:34 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 10:34:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EoeB-00025r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:23 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.66] (helo=actinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EoeB-00025i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:23 +0000 Received: from lanthanum ([194.75.226.97]) by actinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 18Eoe7-00015Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:19 +0000 Received: from 137.205.8.2 by lanthanum ([194.75.226.97]); Thu, 21 Nov 02 10:33:19 GMT Message-ID: <4687617.1037874799062.JavaMail.root@127.0.0.1> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:33:19 +0000 (GMT) From: g3wkl@btinternet.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: talk21.com WAS v2 Subject: LF: Region 1 IARU Conference: 136 & 500kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUPERLONG_LINEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I was waiting to make an announcement and combine it with a comment on the 500kHz position, once a chairman for a proposed Working Group was agreed (see below), however, since Stewart has put his note out it makes sense to comment now on the LF related matters from the Conference. I can confirm that the proposed Guideline for 136kHz, see http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html was unanimously adopted. I'll update the website soon to reflect the position and also underline that it's not a Band plan as such, but a guideline for giving direction to the use of the band in the absence of other factors, e.g. some experiments on a novel mode, particular DX operating needs, etc. With reference to the proposal that RSGB put forward for consideration of an amateur allocation at or around 500kHz, I understand that the Conference recognised the ITU policy is that no changes will take place in allocations around 500 kHz in the near future. However, it was agreed that this should not stop us putting a small Working Group together with a view to developing an approach, and it was suggested that we considered a 10kHz segment between 470 and 490kHz. The Working Group would need to recognise that this would be a long-term task, with a further proposal unlikely to be put forward until after WRC03. With the national societies I am in the process of putting together such a working group; any volunteers should e-mail me directly. 73 John Gould, G3WKL IARU Region 1 LF Co-ordinator > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stewart Bryant > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 16:00 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: 136KHz IARU Bandplan > > > From the San Marino Report > > "Band planning guidelines for 136kHz operation were agreed." > > Anyone know where the details are published? > > Stewart G3YSX > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32501 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 11:52:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from netmail01.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.219) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 11:52:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21002 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Nov 2002 11:51:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by netmail01.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 11:51:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Epqv-0002Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:50:37 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Epqv-0002KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:50:37 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu03.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.115]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA3ddcc76e1bfc for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:45:50 +0600 (OS) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:45:50 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <4687617.1037874799062.JavaMail.root@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Region 1 IARU Conference: 136 & 500kHz Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Group. On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 g3wkl@btinternet.com wrote: > > With reference to the proposal that RSGB put forward for consideration of an amateur allocation at or around 500kHz, It should be wonderfull! 136 kHz is too low and 1.8 MHz is too high... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19733 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 11:23:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 11:23:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 25354 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 09:58:54 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 09:58:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Eo5P-0001v0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:57:27 +0000 Received: from [192.108.125.37] (helo=ns3.swh.sk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Eo5O-0001ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:57:26 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id gAL9vO110476 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:57:24 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA09018 for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:57:16 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:57:13 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69F27@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:57:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alberto & all... The same here, still a problem. I'm running Win2k, Service pack 3, Notebook with Pentium III 700MHz and 256MB RAM. 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: G4WGT [mailto:g4wgt@talkgas.net] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:35 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Hi Alberto & All, Still having problems with Argo (Peace Treaty Version). Within 1 hr of starting Argo the waterfall display goes into solid white lines on normal blue background, the time is maintained correctly & the tick markers are still running correctly on left. If I stop Argo & then start Argo it will run ok for up tp 1 hr again. I am using Windows 2000 pro, Pentium II 500 Mhz & 256 Mb RAM. Is anyone else experiencing this or similar problem. I am going to send a screen capture direct to Alberto showing my problem effect. 73 Gary G4WGT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: 19 November 2002 22:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf; lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Today WinXP and Argo have signed a peace treaty. Or, at least, a non-belligerance common understanding...:-) If you want to test the robustness of that treaty, please download again the program from : http://www.weaksignals.com and please send both negative and positive reports with WinXP and/or Win2k, so that I know how it behaves now. Thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27570 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2002 09:38:04 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 09:38:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 6082 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Nov 2002 09:40:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2002 09:40:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Enjl-0001qB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:35:05 +0000 Received: from [213.40.2.15] (helo=bedpan.sout.netline.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Enjk-0001q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:35:04 +0000 Received: from [213.40.204.53] (helo=tcs1) by bedpan.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.04) id 18EnjF-0001pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:34:33 +0000 From: "G4WGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:34:57 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3DDABDB0.4070103@usa.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RE: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alberto & All, Still having problems with Argo (Peace Treaty Version). Within 1 hr of starting Argo the waterfall display goes into solid white lines on normal blue background, the time is maintained correctly & the tick markers are still running correctly on left. If I stop Argo & then start Argo it will run ok for up tp 1 hr again. I am using Windows 2000 pro, Pentium II 500 Mhz & 256 Mb RAM. Is anyone else experiencing this or similar problem. I am going to send a screen capture direct to Alberto showing my problem effect. 73 Gary G4WGT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: 19 November 2002 22:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf; lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Today WinXP and Argo have signed a peace treaty. Or, at least, a non-belligerance common understanding...:-) If you want to test the robustness of that treaty, please download again the program from : http://www.weaksignals.com and please send both negative and positive reports with WinXP and/or Win2k, so that I know how it behaves now. Thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15729 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 19:43:04 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 19:43:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 16727 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 18:06:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 18:06:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EZEH-0000Wv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:05:37 +0000 Received: from [207.155.198.79] (helo=darius.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EZEG-0000Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:05:36 +0000 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gAKI5Vu20433 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id NAA25986; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:05:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003601c290bf$bec91e40$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c29080$5c4c19a0$402d7ad5@main> <000701c29094$87da85c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <000f01c2909f$9757aae0$0504210a@c.scope> <002201c290b7$403ab780$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:07:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: re Spiral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > Peter G3LDO put a lot of good stiff in "the Low Frequency Experimenters > Handbook" RSGB 2000 So THAT"S where Peter puts the dead bodies! John Andrews From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19610 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 18:51:37 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 18:51:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 23930 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 16:50:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 16:50:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EYBs-0000LJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:59:04 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.211] (helo=cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EYBr-0000LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:59:03 +0000 Received: from modem-39.aerandir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.98.39] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18EYBq-0005h7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:59:03 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c290b7$403ab780$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c29080$5c4c19a0$402d7ad5@main> <000701c29094$87da85c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <000f01c2909f$9757aae0$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 17:05:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: re Spiral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- I take it you mean "wire in the air > has 100 times more worth than wire on the ground.") Yes thats my experience > I take it the LF reflector has no on-line archive of past postings ??? Right, but people are working on it. Peter G3LDO put a lot of good stiff in "the Low Frequency Experimenters Handbook" RSGB 2000 > (fingers still sore from winding miles of wire round plastic bucket !) We've all been there Hi Looking forward to hearing you and Steve Laurie. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23872 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 16:46:49 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 16:46:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3116 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 14:33:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 14:33:10 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EVtT-0008Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:31:55 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EVtT-0008QU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:31:55 +0000 Received: (qmail 20517 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 14:20:50 -0000 Received: from modem-114-41-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.41.114) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 14:20:50 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c2909f$9757aae0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c29080$5c4c19a0$402d7ad5@main> <000701c29094$87da85c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 14:17:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: re Spiral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Laurie, > "Wire in the air has 100 times more worth than wire in the air " > There I've said it again sorry. Don't be sorry, Steve is not the only one currently winding coils and contemplating top and bottom loads, and I don't think I have been following the reflector long enough to have heard you say it before. (I take it you mean "wire in the air has 100 times more worth than wire on the ground.") I take it the LF reflector has no on-line archive of past postings ??? 73, Hugh M0WYE (fingers still sore from winding miles of wire round plastic bucket !) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9008 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 16:08:35 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 16:08:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 24568 invoked by uid 10001); 20 Nov 2002 16:07:57 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 16:07:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EXMl-0000Dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:06:15 +0000 Received: from [144.254.98.48] (helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EXMl-0000DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:06:15 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (rtp-vpn2-56.cisco.com [10.82.240.56]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23117 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:01:00 GMT Message-ID: <3DDBB193.8080203@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:00:19 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136KHz IARU Bandplan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group From the San Marino Report "Band planning guidelines for 136kHz operation were agreed." Anyone know where the details are published? Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24014 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 15:59:58 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 15:59:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18409 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 12:45:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 12:45:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EUJN-0008Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:50:33 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.210] (helo=cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EUJM-0008Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:50:32 +0000 Received: from modem-103.alqualonde.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.102.231] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18EUJL-00022K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:50:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c29094$87da85c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c29080$5c4c19a0$402d7ad5@main> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:57:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: re Spiral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:32 AM Subject: LF: re Spiral > Hi Steve, that sounds quite a beastie. we only got to 700 or so uH.....1.4mH > top load sounds very interesting. I think the problem is that you will not > get any help from "analysis" as most of the theoretical treatments dont seem > to be able to deal with inductive top-load and the effect of increased > top-capacitance on ground loss. My guess is that you will not see much more > increase in Rrad now, but I cant judge what effect further development will > have on the ground loss. > > You are certainly going the right way to judge from our experiments. The > problem on ground loss is that the foot-print (as Laurie would call it) is > defined by the sillouette of the spiral so doesnt really increase with the > amount of wire used. Our ground loss only started to decrease when we put > top-load wires out from the apex above the spiral but then "covering new > ground". I suspect you will have to get the best you can with ground wires > ("radials") probably earthed at the ends, like woulld be needed for a true > vertical. You obviously will not need much inductance at the bottom to tune > up to resonance. Are you able to make any measurements on the structure yet > ?? > > This is a very interesting project. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > alan.melia@btinternet.com > Hi Alan and Steve, If I can put my bit in here I think that the spiral top load will be a nice low loss inductor but as Alan says, in itself it will not "see" much ground. Rrad depends on the height of the vert. section so it will not increase, The great advantage of the spiral will be to increase the potential of whatever top wire you can manage to get up,making it more effective,but as I have said boringly so many times, the more the better,its the "foot print" that matters and the worse the ground the bigger the foot print needs to be"Wire in the air has 100 times more worth than wire in the air " There I've said it again sorry. 73 Laurie . > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27090 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 13:32:57 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 13:32:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 25809 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 10:35:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 10:35:49 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ESBm-0007pi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:34:34 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ESBm-0007pZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:34:34 +0000 Received: from host213-122-45-64.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.45.64] helo=main) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18ESBj-00029d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c29080$5c4c19a0$402d7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:32:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: re Spiral Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_08_13,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Steve, that sounds quite a beastie. we only got to 700 or so uH.....1.4mH top load sounds very interesting. I think the problem is that you will not get any help from "analysis" as most of the theoretical treatments dont seem to be able to deal with inductive top-load and the effect of increased top-capacitance on ground loss. My guess is that you will not see much more increase in Rrad now, but I cant judge what effect further development will have on the ground loss. You are certainly going the right way to judge from our experiments. The problem on ground loss is that the foot-print (as Laurie would call it) is defined by the sillouette of the spiral so doesnt really increase with the amount of wire used. Our ground loss only started to decrease when we put top-load wires out from the apex above the spiral but then "covering new ground". I suspect you will have to get the best you can with ground wires ("radials") probably earthed at the ends, like woulld be needed for a true vertical. You obviously will not need much inductance at the bottom to tune up to resonance. Are you able to make any measurements on the structure yet ?? This is a very interesting project. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14168 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 13:26:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 13:26:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 13889 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 10:46:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 10:46:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ESMb-0007tW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:45:45 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.83] (helo=mailout07.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ESMa-0007tN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:45:44 +0000 Received: from fwd11.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18ESMZ-000872-0E; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:45:43 +0100 Received: from 192.168.6.2 (0607144537-0001@[217.82.43.185]) by fwd11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18ESMQ-28LCLYC; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:45:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "bernd grupe" To: "lf-group" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Date: 20 Nov 2002 10:45 GMT Message-ID: <18ESMQ-28LCLYC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: LF: argo v1-130 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Alberto, got no problems with the new version and WIN XP! Think its now bugfree. Thanks for this fine hamware. 73 Bernd , DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4301 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 09:38:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 09:38:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 3341 invoked by uid 10001); 20 Nov 2002 09:39:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 09:39:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ERIw-0007g9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:37:54 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ERIw-0007g0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:37:54 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.94.17]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021120093753.GYRH3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:37:53 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:40:00 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021120093753.GYRH3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.9 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Tuesday 19 November 2002 22:05, G4WGT wrote: > I have made some progress on Spiral Top Load antenna, 310 cms corner to > corner, 16 turns at 8 cms spacing (didn't want to go too tight). This > produced 0.432 mH with (81 mtrs of wire) single spiral & 1.424 mH with > (162 mtrs of wire) double spiral, that's as far as I have got, transmitter > almost finished, will keep you posted. Please can someone confirm if I'm getting my analysis of the spiral (or other top) loading right? Consider 30m toploading wire, about 150pF (-j7800). Putting 1.4mH (j1200) at the top of the vertical gives a net -j6600, or 177pF - equivalent to 35m of top loading without any inductance. With 60m toploading, 1.4mH increases the effective length to 86m - starting to get worthwhile. Thanks, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14161 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 03:19:43 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 03:19:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 7379 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2002 03:22:17 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2002 03:22:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ELNZ-00076s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:18:17 +0000 Received: from [209.226.175.4] (helo=tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ELNZ-00076j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:18:17 +0000 Received: from [65.93.67.189] by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with ESMTP id <20021120030611.PUJI15542.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@[65.93.67.189]> for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:06:11 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2106 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:06:53 -0500 From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: In-reply-to: <002601c2901e$d9b91800$1700a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: : WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MACOEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Using Windows ME Millenium edition and experiencing no problems. PII Laptop 300 MHz. Thank you. 73 Mitch VE3OT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20209 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 23:57:16 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 23:57:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 23433 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:56:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:56:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EHHJ-0006dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:55:33 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EHHJ-0006do-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:55:33 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-236.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.236] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18EHHI-0005fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:55:32 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c2901e$d9b91800$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD96F2A.2000405@usa.net> <3DDABDB0.4070103@usa.net> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:56:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Windows 2000 seems to like it too! Thanks Alberto. Dave G3YXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: Cc: "lf" ; Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:39 PM Subject: LF: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed > Today WinXP and Argo have signed a peace treaty. > Or, at least, a non-belligerance common understanding...:-) > > If you want to test the robustness of that treaty, please > download again the program from : > http://www.weaksignals.com > > and please send both negative and positive reports > with WinXP and/or Win2k, so that I know how it behaves now. > > Thanks > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18847 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:42:26 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:42:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 7739 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:40:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:40:55 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EH2G-0006ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:40:00 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.113] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EH2G-0006Yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:40:00 +0000 Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:39:55 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.175.164] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 714gkswKR0352M38; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:36:19 GMT Message-ID: <3DDABDB0.4070103@usa.net> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:39:44 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net References: <3DD96F2A.2000405@usa.net> Subject: LF: WinXp and Argo : peace treaty signed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Today WinXP and Argo have signed a peace treaty. Or, at least, a non-belligerance common understanding...:-) If you want to test the robustness of that treaty, please download again the program from : http://www.weaksignals.com and please send both negative and positive reports with WinXP and/or Win2k, so that I know how it behaves now. Thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3949 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:33:11 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:33:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 29768 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:32:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:32:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EGtX-0006W0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:30:59 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EGtW-0006Vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:30:58 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-236.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.236] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #16) id 18EGtV-0003UP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:30:58 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c2901b$6afedec0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:31:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Loop reception and daytime activity Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
I am now fully set up on 136 and 73k and am available most days throughout the day. Week days are usually free of the local noises which plague me at the weekends and I have had good conacts with F6BWO, DL1EIE, SM1LCA and SM6BHZ over the last week.
Some of the credit for this is down to the rotatable loop receiving antenna. Based on Jim's "lazy" design, it's a 4 turn loop with 2mtr sides, tuned and rotated from the shack and using Jim's pre-amp design. It tunes down to 70kHz and will knock Rugby down by 40dB.
The most surprising thing has been its performance after dark, I find I can actually peak more distant signals to a quite useful amount by rotating the loop. The peak is quite sharp. I expected to be able to improve signal readabilty by nulling noises, not by peaking signals like using a VHF beam! The effect on F6BWO's signal just now was amazing!
 
If anyone wants a daytime sked let me know... and don't forget the first Tuesday in December for 73k tests.
 
73.
Dave, G3YXM
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7249 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:11:42 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:11:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 9963 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 22:11:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 22:11:09 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EGVL-0006PJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:05:59 +0000 Received: from [213.40.2.14] (helo=gourd.sout.netline.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EGVI-0006P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:05:56 +0000 Received: from [213.40.202.102] (helo=tcs1) by gourd.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.04) id 18EGUl-0007hI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:05:24 +0000 From: "G4WGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:05:41 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000801c28f5d$5967caa0$e6037ad5@main> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alan, Thanks for the comments, unfortunately not so, Pentium II 500 Mhz - 256 Mb RAM. I am sure that Alberto will sort it out. Even with the occasional loss of the earlier Argo I think the software is very good. I have made some progress on Spiral Top Load antenna, 310 cms corner to corner, 16 turns at 8 cms spacing (didn't want to go too tight). This produced 0.432 mH with (81 mtrs of wire) single spiral & 1.424 mH with (162 mtrs of wire) double spiral, that's as far as I have got, transmitter almost finished, will keep you posted. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Hi Gary, I think you may have been running the earlier version of Argo on a machine with 32 or 64MB memory. I too had the same effect originally, and suggested a memory "leak" to Alberto. I have been running a beta for some time time now for Alberto and it seems to have pretty well cleared the problem. I can run overnight captures without it locking up on both 95b and 98. So I think when he cures the "opening problem" on XP and 2000, I think you will find it runs reliably. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: G4WGT Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing.. >Using Widows 2000 Pro, Argo does not display on screen only shows on task >bar at bottom, (Previous version OK except for being closed by Windows after 1 or 2 hours due to error). > >73 > >Gary G4WGT. > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21074 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 19:34:28 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 19:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4848 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 16:41:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 16:41:44 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18EBZd-0005gF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:50:05 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18EBZd-0005g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:50:05 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.145]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021119165003.PDWJ15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c28feb$a5aa8ea0$91e4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:40:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: argo v1-130 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
HI All
Reference feedback about the new release. I find it runs using win95 and win 98 on  166 mhz machines with 32 kb mem but suffers from the same problems as before, after a varying time from about 20 minutes to a few hours it crashes and causes other problems on the computer.
I use 2 different computers and get the same trouble.
It is a very useful prog and hope Alberto can fix it.
There are no problems with other s/ware progs on my computers.
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9715 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 09:29:42 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 09:29:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 10314 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Nov 2002 09:30:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 09:30:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18E4dy-0004Ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:06 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18E4dx-0004Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:05 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-236.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.236] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18E4dx-0006v0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:05 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c28fad$cb3d46a0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28f63$88d9bae0$e6037ad5@main> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:26:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: G3AQC nets LA as well Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group And on the LF news page there's some screen grabs. Dave Pick G3YXM http://www.wireless.org.uk > Hi Laurie I dont know whether you have seen the LWCA message board but there > is a listener report from Norway there. That is probably a first one-way on > either of the bands. I know it is not as far as the States but this could > indicate as Jan-Martin suggests that there is some activity brewing now in > LA .......... maybe some listening or cross-band activity will ensue. > > Cheers de ALan G3NYK > alan.melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8408 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 07:56:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 07:56:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 15551 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 07:56:05 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 07:56:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18E3Dj-00049W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:54:55 +0000 Received: from [192.108.125.37] (helo=ns3.swh.sk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18E3Di-00049N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:54:54 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id gAJ7sr122351 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:54:53 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA13396 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:54:45 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:54:42 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69EFB@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:54:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I have the same problem with W2K Pro... 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: G4WGT [mailto:g4wgt@talkgas.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:28 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing... Hello Alberto, Just downloaded & installed new version Argo. Using Widows 2000 Pro, Argo does not display on screen only shows on task bar at bottom, (Previous version OK except for being closed by Windows after 1 or 2 hours due to error). 73 Gary G4WGT. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of bernd grupe Sent: 18 November 2002 17:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Hi Alberto, can't open the new Vers. 130! I'm running WIN-XP(HOME ED.)When starting argo.exe the window crash and just a icon is remaining in the taskline at the bottom of the desktop. May be there is another bug in the compressed file. 73 Bernd,DF8ZR "Alberto di Bene" schrieb: > .... usually you break another one.... > > This is what has just happened with build 130 of Argo. > If you find yourself unable to reload your favorite settings, > just saved under a given name, please download again > build 130 of Argo from http://www.weaksignals.com > I made a small silly error. Hope it's the only one. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13044 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 04:43:44 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 04:43:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4307 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 04:43:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 04:43:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18E0Cx-0003uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:41:55 +0000 Received: from [195.170.0.5] (helo=mailsrv.otenet.gr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18E0Cw-0003uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:41:55 +0000 Received: from otenet.gr (myti530-a074.otenet.gr [212.205.251.202]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAJ4faqF026950 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:41:52 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3DD9BF7E.2C00D07@otenet.gr> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:35:11 +0200 From: "Alex Deligiannis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Leonids Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Leonid meteor storm peaks at my QTH around 03:45 Z no big ones and no audible hisss but with some background CW music at 50.1 Mhz...
Alex SV8QG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16790 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 01:38:30 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 01:38:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 20627 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Nov 2002 00:36:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:36:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DwMD-0003RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:35:13 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DwMC-0003RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:35:13 +0000 Received: from host213-122-3-230.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.3.230] helo=main) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DwMC-0001wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:35:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c28f63$88d9bae0$e6037ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:35:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: G3AQC nets LA as well Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Laurie I dont know whether you have seen the LWCA message board but there is a listener report from Norway there. That is probably a first one-way on either of the bands. I know it is not as far as the States but this could indicate as Jan-Martin suggests that there is some activity brewing now in LA .......... maybe some listening or cross-band activity will ensue. Cheers de ALan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16410 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 00:42:27 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:42:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 9155 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2002 00:41:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:41:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DwP7-0003SE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:38:13 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.111] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DwP7-0003S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:38:13 +0000 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2002 00:38:04 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.179.68] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 325gksaMa0139M28; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 00:38:00 GMT Message-ID: <3DD97FE9.7000607@usa.net> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 01:03:53 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD6356A.8070000@usa.net> <3DD7D1A3.20509@usa.net> <3DD8A702.FDAA16E2@otenet.gr> Subject: Re: LF: Argo V1 build 130 released Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.3 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alex Deligiannis wrote: >Dear Alberto, > V1.130 running here OK but I have a question about >Spectran V1 which I use more than Argo. I found a difference of 110 to 120 mH >between Argo readings and Spectran as follows: > >MSF > Argo 799.73 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz > >HBG > Argo 799.71 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz and > >DCF77 > Argo 799.71 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz (all CW mode 800 HZ pitch) > >I'm wandering why I have this difference between the two programs and second >how I can calibrate spectran. > > Dear Alex, there are a couple of things to consider. First, the program settings. The FFT bins are spaced according to the FFT length and sampling rate chosen, and the peak indicated is that of the nearest bin. So you should compare Argo and Spectran at the same FFT length and sampling rate. Spectran reports in its control panel those values, Argo doesn't. Argo, when in horizontal mode, uses 5512 as sampling rate and FFT lengths as follows : QRSS3 : 16384 QRSS10 : 65536 QRSS20 : 131072 QRSS30 : 262144 etc. etc. But there is a second point to consider : when I said that the nearest bin is used for indicating the peak frequency, I cheated a little. That is true for Spectran. In Argo I tried to be a bit smarter... the peak indicated is computed with a quadratic interpolation of three adjacent bins, the highest magnitude one and its two neighbours, using their relative magnitudes as weights. So, all in all, may be Argo is a tad more precise than Spectran, at least at comparable resolutions. As for calibration, the current version of Spectran doesn't have that facility. May be in a forthcoming one... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8847 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 23:55:28 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 23:55:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 19210 invoked by uid 10001); 18 Nov 2002 22:53:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 22:53:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Dukp-0003Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:52:31 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.112] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Duko-0003Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:52:31 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 22:52:28 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.171.69] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 165gkRw1T0088M31; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:52:25 GMT Message-ID: <3DD96F2A.2000405@usa.net> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:52:26 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steinar.Aanesland@nrk.no, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, mcalevey@xtra.co.nz, vferme@lycos.co.uk References: Subject: LF: ARGO V1, build 130 and Win XP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello all, I have received many reports that Argo V1_130 doesn't work with Win XP and possibly also with Win 2000, while it is ok on Win 98. Today I have reinstalled (for the umpteenth time...) Win XP Pro on my PC just to check, and... sure indeed, it starts minimized and nothing can convince it to show its window. An older version of Argo worked ok, as did Spectran. So I am able to reproduce the problem, and hope to come out with a solution in a short time. Sorry for the inconvenience (and thanks to Bill for his attention to backward compatibility...:-( 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21685 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 23:52:09 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 23:52:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 18658 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 23:51:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 23:51:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DvfN-0003L3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:57 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DvfN-0003Ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:57 +0000 Received: from host213-122-3-230.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.3.230] helo=main) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DvfM-0001pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c28f5d$5967caa0$e6037ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:50:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Gary, I think you may have been running the earlier version of Argo on a machine with 32 or 64MB memory. I too had the same effect originally, and suggested a memory "leak" to Alberto. I have been running a beta for some time time now for Alberto and it seems to have pretty well cleared the problem. I can run overnight captures without it locking up on both 95b and 98. So I think when he cures the "opening problem" on XP and 2000, I think you will find it runs reliably. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 18 November 2002 20:30 Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing... >Hello Alberto, > >Just downloaded & installed new version Argo. > >Using Widows 2000 Pro, Argo does not display on screen only shows on task >bar at bottom, (Previous version OK except for being closed by Windows after >1 or 2 hours due to error). > >73 > >Gary G4WGT. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19991 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 21:31:27 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 21:31:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 5836 invoked by uid 10001); 18 Nov 2002 20:29:42 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 20:29:42 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DsVY-0002wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:28:36 +0000 Received: from [213.40.2.15] (helo=bedpan.sout.netline.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DsVX-0002wZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:28:36 +0000 Received: from [213.40.206.122] (helo=tcs1) by bedpan.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.04) id 18DsUy-0008P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:28:00 +0000 From: "G4WGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:27:56 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <18DpxI-1TlNtQC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: RE: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Alberto, Just downloaded & installed new version Argo. Using Widows 2000 Pro, Argo does not display on screen only shows on task bar at bottom, (Previous version OK except for being closed by Windows after 1 or 2 hours due to error). 73 Gary G4WGT. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of bernd grupe Sent: 18 November 2002 17:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Hi Alberto, can't open the new Vers. 130! I'm running WIN-XP(HOME ED.)When starting argo.exe the window crash and just a icon is remaining in the taskline at the bottom of the desktop. May be there is another bug in the compressed file. 73 Bernd,DF8ZR "Alberto di Bene" schrieb: > .... usually you break another one.... > > This is what has just happened with build 130 of Argo. > If you find yourself unable to reload your favorite settings, > just saved under a given name, please download again > build 130 of Argo from http://www.weaksignals.com > I made a small silly error. Hope it's the only one. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/2002 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21948 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 19:09:34 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 19:09:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 27442 invoked by uid 10001); 18 Nov 2002 18:07:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 18:07:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DqEF-0002gK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:02:35 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.85] (helo=mailout11.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DqEF-0002gB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:02:35 +0000 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18DqEE-0003of-02; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:02:34 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.50.14]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18DqDt-0AUslMC; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:02:13 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69EF8@btss103a.swh.sk> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:02:13 +0100 Message-ID: <18DqDt-0AUslMC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: RE: Argo V1 build 130 released Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060808010001000108040008" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060808010001000108040008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gasparik Richard schrieb: > Hi all... > > After the installation and start of the new version of the Argo - nothing. I > doesn't work on my comp. It's for the first time that I have a problem with > Argo. It's something wrong ? > > Rich OM2TW Hi Rich, guess it depends on the time you downloaded it. did you read the last email from Alberto? NOW it works fine here (AMD Athlon 925MHz Win98) after calibration by using the PRF of LORAN-C Sylt (1000,1334Hz) as a qrg normal. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------060808010001000108040008 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="LORANE.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LORANE.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAINAuEDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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6Fo+n2Zs7LSrG2tTKs5hht0RDIpBV9oGNwKqQeo2j0rQooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAP//Z --------------060808010001000108040008-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21916 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 17:47:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 17:47:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 9622 invoked by uid 10001); 18 Nov 2002 17:47:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 17:47:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Dpxa-0002b8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:45:22 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.20] (helo=mailout08.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DpxZ-0002az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:45:21 +0000 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18DpxU-0008O0-09; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:45:16 +0100 Received: from 192.168.6.2 (0607144537-0001@[217.225.204.33]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18DpxI-1TlNtQC; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 18:45:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:45 GMT Message-ID: <18DpxI-1TlNtQC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE, USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alberto, can't open the new Vers. 130! I'm running WIN-XP(HOME ED.)When starting argo.exe the window crash and just a icon is remaining in the taskline at the bottom of the desktop. May be there is another bug in the compressed file. 73 Bernd,DF8ZR "Alberto di Bene" schrieb: > .... usually you break another one.... > > This is what has just happened with build 130 of Argo. > If you find yourself unable to reload your favorite settings, > just saved under a given name, please download again > build 130 of Argo from http://www.weaksignals.com > I made a small silly error. Hope it's the only one. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25625 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 16:20:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 16:20:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 27293 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 15:49:44 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 15:49:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Do8U-0002Hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:48:30 +0000 Received: from [192.108.125.37] (helo=ns3.swh.sk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Do8T-0002HZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:48:29 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id gAIFmS102777 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:48:28 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA20844 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:48:20 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:48:17 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69EF8@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 16:48:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: Argo V1 build 130 released Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_3,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all... After the installation and start of the new version of the Argo - nothing. I doesn't work on my comp. It's for the first time that I have a problem with Argo. It's something wrong ? Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 6:28 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; tacos; lowfer@mailman.qth.net; lf Subject: LF: Argo V1 build 130 released Hi all I have just uploaded on the weaksignals site Version 1, build 130 of Argo. From the readme file : V1, build 130 (Nov. 17th, 2002) - NDB mode added - Wave file read/write added - Screen capture dialog rewritten (now should work as intended). - Added the computation of the capture timing to specify for a screenfull. - Corrected a few errors, one of which could cause random abnormal terminations. - Ported to V6 of the C++Builder compiler As usual, it is freely downloadable from : http://www.weaksignals.com Please read the readme file for information on the new functions. Comments and bug reports welcome. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16189 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 14:01:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 14:01:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 9096 invoked by uid 10001); 18 Nov 2002 13:59:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 13:59:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DmPz-0001s6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:58:27 +0000 Received: from [195.170.0.5] (helo=mailsrv.otenet.gr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DmPz-0001rx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:58:27 +0000 Received: from otenet.gr (myti530-a026.otenet.gr [212.205.251.154]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gAIDw9qF025524 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:58:24 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3DD8A702.FDAA16E2@otenet.gr> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:38:26 +0200 From: "Alex Deligiannis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD6356A.8070000@usa.net> <3DD7D1A3.20509@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Argo V1 build 130 released Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,DEAR_SOMEBODY,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Alberto, V1.130 running here OK but I have a question about Spectran V1 which I use more than Argo. I found a difference of 110 to 120 mH between Argo readings and Spectran as follows: MSF > Argo 799.73 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz HBG > Argo 799.71 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz and DCF77 > Argo 799.71 Hz Spectran 799.84 Hz (all CW mode 800 HZ pitch) I'm wandering why I have this difference between the two programs and second how I can calibrate spectran. Thank you Alex SV8QG Alberto di Bene wrote: > Hi all > > I have just uploaded on the weaksignals site Version 1, build 130 > of Argo. From the readme file : > > V1, build 130 (Nov. 17th, 2002) > - NDB mode added > - Wave file read/write added > - Screen capture dialog rewritten (now should work as intended). > - Added the computation of the capture timing to specify for a screenfull. > - Corrected a few errors, one of which could cause random abnormal > terminations. > - Ported to V6 of the C++Builder compiler > > As usual, it is freely downloadable from : > http://www.weaksignals.com > > Please read the readme file for information on the new functions. > Comments and bug reports welcome. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1203 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 13:47:25 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 13:47:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 24363 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 12:19:47 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 12:19:47 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DkrL-0001aP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:18:35 +0000 Received: from [80.68.3.204] (helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DkrK-0001aE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:18:34 +0000 Received: (qmail 23199 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 15:18:32 +0300 Received: from ed.dx (10.0.1.11) by gw.dx with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 15:18:31 +0300 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:18:32 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60q) Personal Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <11217473692.20021118151832@dx.ru> To: "Reino Multanen" In-reply-to: <20021108185245.48427.qmail@iname.com> References: <20021108185245.48427.qmail@iname.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RULWZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_THEBATversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Repe! Friday, November 8, 2002, 9:52:45 PM, you wrote: RM> GE OM?s and greetings from East Finland, RM> I hear just now RU6LWZ abt 569 ca 136.4 kHz = 73/Repe TNF for the report!! PSE info abt you RX/ANT on 136kHz You have HAM's call? 73! Ed RU6LA ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7697 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 08:59:41 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 08:59:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 5158 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 09:02:07 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 09:02:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DhmB-0000v0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:01:03 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DhmA-0000uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:01:02 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAI90WGe068890 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:00:32 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021118094533.00b43ed0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:06:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <000c01c28cd7$d8dcc700$69e8fc3e@l8p8y6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: vertical/loop Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Mal,

The facts are  being distorted because of local environmental issues instead of comparing the two antennas on LF where both systems are small physically compared to the frequency.
Only those with sufficient unobstructed space are in a position to test one against the other for a true accessment.

Under perfect conditions nor the vertical nor the loop would have any losses. At low take-off angles the vertical would have a 3dB gain over the loop, at heigher angles the loop can be significantly better than the vertical.
But unfortunately these "perfect conditions" do not exist, one just can try to get close.
So whatever is taken as the definition of "sufficient unobstructed space" and  "for a true accessment", it is subject to interpretation.

In the days of Napoleon the definition for 1 meter was given as :
"The distance between the 2 gold plug in a certain platina-iridium bar the was kept somewhere in Paris (at 0 degrees C)."
(but meanwhile there is a more scientific definition)

In analogy the definition of "sufficient unobstructed space" could be :
"A certain property in northern England, sized several acres and tree free for antenna testing"

With a smile,

73, Rik  ON7YD


 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14977 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 07:48:58 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 07:48:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 27504 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2002 07:49:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2002 07:49:59 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DgeL-0000la-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:48:53 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DgeK-0000lR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:48:53 +0000 Received: from [212.1.153.103] (helo=pcuser) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18DgWw-0000vA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:41:15 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c28ed6$ee352100$679901d4@pcuser> From: "Hugh Burnham" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> <002901c28c9a$c4c9b1c0$ac2765d5@oemcomputer> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:47:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Thankyou Johan, Rik, Stewart, Alan, Dave, Alex and others, for giving me your thoughts. I like Dave's "quick and dirty" way, which is basically what started out by doing, except that I relied on the rig's power meter to give me 50W which, using I squared R, gives 1 Amp. I'm using a pair of ferrites from a TV scan coil yoke, so I can clamp them round any conductor that needs measuring. I compared the readings on the 160m and 80m bands, but found that I got different readings on the two bands. The reading was less on 80m - indicating some loss. A coil wound on a nice RF ferrite toroid gave the same readings at both frequencies. I expect the scan coil ferrites would be ok at 136kHz, but it didn't inspire confidence in my calibration technique. It is really a case of pulling myself up by the bootstraps, because the TX is an unknown quantity at the moment, so it looks like I need to press on with that to get a good source of current, to test the meter, that I wanted to test the TX amp with ! You're right, Alan, I'll just be looking for changes (increases) to start with - so I can worry about fine tuning it later. Think I'll borrow a scope from work and then I can do the job properly. Thanks once again. 73 Hugh M0WYE. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12697 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 23:31:28 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 23:31:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 8264 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 23:30:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 23:30:57 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DYrB-0008NV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:29:37 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.11] (helo=smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DYrA-0008NM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:29:36 +0000 Received: from tnt-18-82.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.224.82] helo=erica) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DYr9-0001DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:29:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c28e91$3fd019c0$52e086d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c28e75$89c06380$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:29:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re.73kHz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie said: > Although there was rather poor copy of signals from G3AQC and G3LDO (thanks > Peter for joining in ), > last nights experiment was really quite successful. > At the time when signals were seen by W1TAG and W4DEX the Kp index was up to > 3 which Alan and I regard as the highest at which a crossing can > occur.Previous crossings were made at lower levels.and better copy was > achieved.This crossing occurred 17 days after a possible X class flare which > however did not have too great an effect. I agree with Laurie that the results obtained on 73kHz correlated with similar tests on 136kHz, between T/A signal strengths and Kp index. I reported that at the start of my transmission the frequency had drifted up 30mH (as measured on a Philips PM 6667 high resolution frequency counter) when in fact, according to Markus and Jose, it had drifted down by 30mH. I switched the DDS unit on at 1800hrs before I went out for the evening so it had been on for 6hrs. I didn't, however, leave the frequency counter switched on. The cause of the drift is not known. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 842 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 23:10:58 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 23:10:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28319 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 22:10:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 22:10:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DXbU-000881-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:09:20 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.102] (helo=imo-r06.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DXbS-00087s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:09:19 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.80.2483af24 (4222) for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:08:35 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <80.2483af24.2b096d63@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:08:35 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Subject: Re: LF: Spectrum Lab Question Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Richard,

You wrote:
>> I am implementing a RX drift cancelling system for some experiments that I am doing. Basically the idea is that alongside the wanted signal, I will put a stable carrier. I then want to use Spectrum Lab to correct for drift by using the recovered carrier as a reference for an oscillator/mixer such that downward shifts in the carrier due to RX drift wi ll shift the oscillator such that the drift is eliminated after the mixer.
<<

Well, it it possible to set the frequency of one of the oscillator function blocks to the peak frequency in a narrow frequency band. SpecLab has a kind of "script language" built inside, there is a function which returns a very accurate peak frequency value ("peak_a(freq1, freq2")
, and there is a procedure which can set the frequency of an oscillator to a specified frequency ("circuit.osc[0].freq=X").
I tried this instruction:
  circuit.osc[0].freq=650-peak_f(500,800)
which detects the peak frequency in the range 500 Hz..800 Hz, subtracts it from the "wanted" center frequency (here: 650 Hz) and sets the 1st oscillator to the result (which may be a negative frequency, which is no problem for an oscillator with quadrature output). I used the "USB UP-CONVERTER" driven by this oscillator in the test. In the output, the peak was always at 650 Hz then.
To connect the L.O. to the detected peak frequency, you must convince the interpreter to do this periodically. I achieved this by copying the instruction into the "periodic action" window (which is normally used to trigger screen captures) and set the interval to 1 second (which unfortunately is the lowest value, so this "drift compensator" is only updated once per second). Connect the main spectrum analyzer to the INPUT signal, not to the OUTPUT; because the "peak_f" function takes its input data from the main spectrum analyzer.

If you need further info please ask. More info will go directly to you, because this topic may be too 'special' for this reflector.

Regards and good luck,
Wolf DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2251 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 22:25:10 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 22:25:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 9798 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 22:24:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 22:24:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DXpq-0008Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:24:10 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.110] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DXpq-0008CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:24:10 +0000 Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 22:24:08 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.179.127] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 175gkqwuG0347M38; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:20:33 GMT Message-ID: <3DD815C1.1070306@usa.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:18:41 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "tacos" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, "lf" References: <3DD6356A.8070000@usa.net> <3DD7D1A3.20509@usa.net> Subject: LF: When you fix one thing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group .... usually you break another one.... This is what has just happened with build 130 of Argo. If you find yourself unable to reload your favorite settings, just saved under a given name, please download again build 130 of Argo from http://www.weaksignals.com I made a small silly error. Hope it's the only one. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8534 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 20:06:35 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 20:06:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 13862 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 20:07:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 20:07:36 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DVdv-0007vh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:03:43 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.174] (helo=cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DVdv-0007vY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:03:43 +0000 Received: from modem-93.arossiach.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.126.221] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DVdu-0006HL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:03:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c28e75$89c06380$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:10:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re.73/136kHz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All, Although there was rather poor copy of signals from G3AQC and G3LDO (thanks Peter for joining in ), last nights experiment was really quite successful. At the time when signals were seen by W1TAG and W4DEX the Kp index was up to 3 which Alan and I regard as the highest at which a crossing can occur.Previous crossings were made at lower lenels.and better copy was achieved.This crossing occured 17 days after a possible X class flare which however did not have too great an effect. So my thanks to all who co-operated with reports of signals frequency etc. -136kHz- John W1TAG has siggested a return to 136 for these tests where more stations could participate,at both ends. (remember the clustering close to 135.922 last year.) I should be very happy to return to 136 for a while at least, and I would appreciate comments. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20963 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 17:29:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 17:29:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 25418 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 17:29:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 17:29:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DTD3-0007bp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:27:49 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.111] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DTD2-0007bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:27:48 +0000 Received: from uadvg129.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.129) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 17:27:46 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.167.245] by uadvg129.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 736gkqRbQ0258M29; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:27:43 GMT Message-ID: <3DD7D1A3.20509@usa.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:28:03 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "tacos" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, "lf" References: <3DD6356A.8070000@usa.net> Subject: LF: Argo V1 build 130 released Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all I have just uploaded on the weaksignals site Version 1, build 130 of Argo. From the readme file : V1, build 130 (Nov. 17th, 2002) - NDB mode added - Wave file read/write added - Screen capture dialog rewritten (now should work as intended). - Added the computation of the capture timing to specify for a screenfull. - Corrected a few errors, one of which could cause random abnormal terminations. - Ported to V6 of the C++Builder compiler As usual, it is freely downloadable from : http://www.weaksignals.com Please read the readme file for information on the new functions. Comments and bug reports welcome. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31450 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 11:50:38 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 11:50:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 2902 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 11:49:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 11:49:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DNu6-00070b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:47:54 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.173] (helo=cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DNu6-00070S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:47:54 +0000 Received: from modem-28.aranwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.28] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DNu5-0002Hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:47:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c28e30$45ba3200$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:54:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: HP 3586b Sel.Level Meter. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All, I am looking for some operating instructions for the HP3586b. Can anyone advise where this could be found? 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23417 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 05:56:52 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 05:56:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 6738 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Nov 2002 05:55:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 05:55:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DIOR-0006Vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:54:51 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.69] (helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DIOR-0006Vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:54:51 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021117055601.CFRM678.host4@att.net> for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:56:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3DD72F41.641CA966@att.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:55:13 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000b01c28dcc$37dbed40$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group >From about 04:00 to 04:30 UT I could see traces of what I believe was Laurie's signal. It was right on 72,400.8. If so I would say propagation was good considering the QRN level which is probably reducing my receive sensitivity by at least 10 db. Dex Laurie Mayhead wrote: > > Hi John,Dex and all. > I started transmitting at 23:10,the Kp index went up to 3 but is now 2, so > we have a chance, I hope. > Transmitting now and will run until about 06:30 UTC. > OK about 136 I am very happy to go back there and agree that there are more > stations who could participate. > both here and at your end. > I just wanted to get as much done on 73 before we lose the band in June. > Will see what I can do at this end for the next possible opening. > Watch this space! and thanks for watching. > 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2220 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 04:40:38 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 04:40:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 3169 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Nov 2002 04:40:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 04:40:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DHDD-0006IO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:39:11 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.12] (helo=smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DHDD-0006IF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 04:39:11 +0000 Received: from tnt-21-22.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.228.22] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18D5bD-0005xR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:15:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c28d8b$624ed7e0$16e486d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c28d61$7b642520$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:14:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie said > At the moment the Kp index is down to 1 so this should be ideal for a T/A > crossing. > I will be on tonight from about 23:00UTC > Freq 72.401 QRSS120 > Hope some of you will be able to watch,and that we can learn a bit more > about propagation. I would like to join in as well if I may. My frequency is 72.4003 QRSS 120 I will be out this evening but I will switch the transmitter on when I get in. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22743 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 03:39:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 03:39:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 20861 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Nov 2002 02:39:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 02:39:01 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DFKJ-0004Yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:38:23 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.21] (helo=dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DFKJ-0004YT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:38:23 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 28192176 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:37:52 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c28de2$5b31a260$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000501c28ddc$268a13e0$24ccfc3e@ian> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:38:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz 16/17 Nov. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I'm giving up as of 0230. Just too noisy tonight. Absent the static from the storm, it might have been an interesting evening, as fragments of both Laurie's and Peter's signals have been visible. Oh, well... John, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4294 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 02:15:43 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 02:15:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:14:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:14:02 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DE09-0004Af-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:13:29 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.101] (helo=imo-r05.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DE08-0004AW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:13:28 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.ce.300e1a15 (4238) for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:12:51 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:12:51 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: 73k T/A freqs Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Peter,

g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk:

I started transmission on 72.4003 at 0015UTC. I notice that the frequency
has drifted to 7240032.


interesting: on my Argo display you have definitely drifted downwards, from 72400.29 at 0:35 to 72400.27 now at 1:05. Laurie's sig reads 72400.79 here, only about 3dB stronger on average.

73 de Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13205 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:53:20 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:53:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23500 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:52:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:52:01 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DEar-0004Od-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:51:25 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.41] (helo=mta1-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DEar-0004OU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:51:25 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.204.36]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021117015124.GXPB277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:51:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c28ddc$268a13e0$24ccfc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:53:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73KHz 16/17 Nov. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Nice QRSS sigs here from both Laurie and Peter; copiable aurally at about S3. Obviously couldn't separate them by ear but could tell when both keys were down simultaneously by the appearance of the beat. Packing it in now at 0135z. 73 de, Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ (and on the right reflector this time) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6028 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:20:56 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:20:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 1761 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:20:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:20:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DE6U-0004Hm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:20:02 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DE6T-0004Hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:20:01 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026145.nexo.es [195.235.26.145]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA07000 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:20:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <005a01c28dd7$67e8f2c0$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> <002401c28dd3$7974aa60$99c428c3@erica> <002901c28dd4$a7eceaa0$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 02:19:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id CAA07000 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John, Peter and All: I saw the first dot from Peter some minutes before 00.15 UTC on 72400.28 Hz; now he´s on 72400.25 Good luck to All, José - EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 2:00 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73k T/A... > Peter, > > > I started transmission on 72.4003 at 0015UTC. I notice that the frequency > > has drifted to 7240032. > > I had left the door of the transmitting room (garden shed) open. I have > now > > closed it so it will be interesting to see if it drifts down again. > Antenna > > current started at 4.1 amps has now risen to 4.3 as the earth worms get > > warmed up. > > Not seeing anything from you at this point. I thought there was a signal > earlier, but it was well before 0015. Am getting some pieces from Laurie. > > John, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19836 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:19:21 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:19:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 18056 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:18:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:18:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DD8M-0003tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:17:54 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.12] (helo=dc-mx02.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DD8L-0003te-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:17:53 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx02.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 5764975 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:17:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:17:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group José, Is anyone else transmitting on 72400.28? John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16619 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:14:18 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:14:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 2306 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:16:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:16:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DE2j-0004DJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:16:09 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DE2i-0004DA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:16:08 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-228.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.228] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DE2h-000B09-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:16:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c28dd6$f4318900$e4ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> <002401c28dd3$7974aa60$99c428c3@erica> <002901c28dd4$a7eceaa0$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:15:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John, > > Not seeing anything from you at this point. I thought there was a signal > earlier, but it was well before 0015. Am getting some pieces from Laurie. > OK I will be shutting down at end of this transmission at around 0120 Thanks for looking - good luck with Laurie. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8041 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:58:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:58:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19971 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 01:00:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 01:00:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DDnP-000469-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:00:19 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.15] (helo=mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DDnP-00045v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:00:19 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 28515126 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:59:48 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c28dd4$a7eceaa0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> <002401c28dd3$7974aa60$99c428c3@erica> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:00:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73k T/A... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter, > I started transmission on 72.4003 at 0015UTC. I notice that the frequency > has drifted to 7240032. > I had left the door of the transmitting room (garden shed) open. I have now > closed it so it will be interesting to see if it drifts down again. Antenna > current started at 4.1 amps has now risen to 4.3 as the earth worms get > warmed up. Not seeing anything from you at this point. I thought there was a signal earlier, but it was well before 0015. Am getting some pieces from Laurie. John, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3743 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:53:03 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:53:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 26777 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:52:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:52:19 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCj1-0003fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:51:43 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCj0-0003fG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:51:42 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026145.nexo.es [195.235.26.145]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA00824 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:51:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:51:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id AAA00824 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All: John , Laurie is transmitting on that frequency, 72400.8 Hz 73 de José - EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 12:43 AM Subject: LF: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck > Alan, > > > Hi all good luck to Laurie and John again, and any others who may be > taking > > part in the 73kHz Trans-Atlantic tests tonight. > > Thinks dont look too bad tonight....it should have equal chance with the > 9th > > if the noise in Mass. is not too rough. ( Ohhhh dear I'm sticking my neck > > out again !!) > > Not much to report as of 2340 UTC. Pretty noisy here in Mass. There's a > coastal storm south of here, and it's complicating things. > > Something appears to be coming in around 72.4008, but that's a bit low for > Laurie. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23794 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:52:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:52:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 14375 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:52:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:52:16 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DDee-00043D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:51:16 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.12] (helo=smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DDed-000434-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:51:15 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-153.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.153] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DDeb-0003ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:51:13 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c28dd3$7974aa60$99c428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:50:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73k T/A... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > > Is anyone else transmitting on 72400.28? > > John Andrews, W1TAG I started transmission on 72.4003 at 0015UTC. I notice that the frequency has drifted to 7240032. I had left the door of the transmitting room (garden shed) open. I have now closed it so it will be interesting to see if it drifts down again. Antenna current started at 4.1 amps has now risen to 4.3 as the earth worms get warmed up. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16525 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:26:35 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:26:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25606 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2002 00:27:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2002 00:27:32 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DDH8-0003wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:26:58 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DDH7-0003wL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:26:58 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026145.nexo.es [195.235.26.145]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA03313 for ; Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:26:56 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <003201c28dcf$fb338700$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> <001501c28dce$ba8a4b40$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:26:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id BAA03313 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John and All: Yes, but I didn´t identify the call yet. José, EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 1:17 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck > José, > > Is anyone else transmitting on 72400.28? > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31875 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:55:31 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 29244 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:56:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:56:32 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCnR-0003l6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:56:17 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.23] (helo=dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCnR-0003kX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:56:17 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 5906430 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:55:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c28dcb$b5f36560$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c28dcb$0a333200$911aebc3@BI57429bankinter> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:55:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group José, >John , Laurie is transmitting on that frequency, 72400.8 Hz Ahhhhh. Thank you very much. I'll watch that carefully. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3316 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:53:57 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:53:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29085 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:56:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:56:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCnI-0003kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:56:08 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.210] (helo=cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCnH-0003kY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:56:07 +0000 Received: from modem-107.amarie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.104.107] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DCnG-0002Rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:56:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c28dcc$d626b160$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:02:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 11:43 PM Subject: LF: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck > Alan, > > > Hi all good luck to Laurie and John again, and any others who may be > taking > > part in the 73kHz Trans-Atlantic tests tonight. > > Thinks dont look too bad tonight....it should have equal chance with the > 9th > > if the noise in Mass. is not too rough. ( Ohhhh dear I'm sticking my neck > > out again !!) > > Not much to report as of 2340 UTC. Pretty noisy here in Mass. There's a > coastal storm south of here, and it's complicating things. > > Something appears to be coming in around 72.4008, but that's a bit low for > Laurie. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > My freq may have shifted keep watching. Laurie. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32320 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:52:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:52:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 27264 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:52:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:52:12 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCj0-0003fQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:51:42 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.171] (helo=cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCj0-0003fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:51:42 +0000 Received: from modem-81.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.124.209] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18DCiz-0002Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:51:41 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c28dcc$37dbed40$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:58:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John,Dex and all. I started transmitting at 23:10,the Kp index went up to 3 but is now 2, so we have a chance, I hope. Transmitting now and will run until about 06:30 UTC. OK about 136 I am very happy to go back there and agree that there are more stations who could participate. both here and at your end. I just wanted to get as much done on 73 before we lose the band in June. Will see what I can do at this end for the next possible opening. Watch this space! and thanks for watching. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25007 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:43:44 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:43:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 27165 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Nov 2002 23:44:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:44:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCbp-0003bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:44:17 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.21] (helo=dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCbo-0003bL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:44:16 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx11.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 28139384 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:43:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c28dca$08444fc0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:43:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan, > Hi all good luck to Laurie and John again, and any others who may be taking > part in the 73kHz Trans-Atlantic tests tonight. > Thinks dont look too bad tonight....it should have equal chance with the 9th > if the noise in Mass. is not too rough. ( Ohhhh dear I'm sticking my neck > out again !!) Not much to report as of 2340 UTC. Pretty noisy here in Mass. There's a coastal storm south of here, and it's complicating things. Something appears to be coming in around 72.4008, but that's a bit low for Laurie. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15959 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:35:56 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:35:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 14029 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 23:35:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 23:35:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DCSX-0003Yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:34:41 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DCSW-0003Ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:34:40 +0000 Received: from host213-122-107-127.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.107.127] helo=main) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18DCSW-00040p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:34:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c28dc8$b9e0faa0$7f6b7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 23:34:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73k T/A...Good Luck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all good luck to Laurie and John again, and any others who may be taking part in the 73kHz Trans-Atlantic tests tonight. Thinks dont look too bad tonight....it should have equal chance with the 9th if the noise in Mass. is not too rough. ( Ohhhh dear I'm sticking my neck out again !!) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5255 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 22:38:00 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 22:38:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 9670 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 21:36:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 21:36:14 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DAbU-0003Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:35:48 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.11] (helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DAbU-0003KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:35:48 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 6331711 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:35:17 -0500 Message-ID: <003701c28db8$15f56da0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:35:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: 73/136 Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Markus, >Can you watch 72 and 136kHz simultaneously? - I could send DFCW after 23:00, parameters 135922.3 dot, 922.4 dash, 60s on, 20s off. Though at 100mW EMRP from here, condx would have to be extraordinary...< No, I'm sorry. My only other receiver is just not stable enough for QRSS work. I may have to do something about that.... John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9854 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 22:27:48 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 22:27:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13167 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 21:27:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 21:27:04 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18DARp-0003Go-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:25:49 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.7] (helo=imo-m04.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18DARo-0003Gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:25:48 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.e5.20d985de (3890) for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:25:12 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:25:11 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: 73/136 Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi John,

Can you watch 72 and 136kHz simultaneously? - I could send DFCW after 23:00, parameters 135922.3 dot,  922.4 dash, 60s on, 20s off. Though at 100mW EMRP from here, condx would have to be extraordinary...

Markus, DF6NM

Just another thought. It would also be useful to organize some beaconing at
136 kHz on some of these promising nights. I remember evenings with at least
5 stations clustered closely to 135.922 kHz, running QRSS60 or slower. We've
got some new fellows over here who would enjoy seeing such a thing. And
there was always room for more signals on the EU end. An Argo 60 second
screen has three whole Hertz of BW!

John Andrews, W1TAG


 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32137 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 20:07:09 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 20:07:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 15386 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Nov 2002 20:05:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 20:05:48 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18D9BG-00035e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:04:38 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.11] (helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18D9BF-00035U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:04:37 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 6301274 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 15:04:06 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c28dab$58e93e00$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c28d61$7b642520$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:04:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie, > I will be on tonight from about 23:00UTC > Freq 72.401 QRSS120 I will be watching. As of 1.5 hours before local sunset, the French language station on 183 kHz is rolling in here in AM mode. Might be a good evening. Just another thought. It would also be useful to organize some beaconing at 136 kHz on some of these promising nights. I remember evenings with at least 5 stations clustered closely to 135.922 kHz, running QRSS60 or slower. We've got some new fellows over here who would enjoy seeing such a thing. And there was always room for more signals on the EU end. An Argo 60 second screen has three whole Hertz of BW! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30958 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 12:00:59 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 12:00:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 17970 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Nov 2002 12:01:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 12:01:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18D1dD-000189-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:00:59 +0000 Received: from [204.60.203.69] (helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18D1dC-000180-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:00:58 +0000 Received: from snet.net (hrfr-sh26-port46.snet.net [204.60.226.46]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id gAGBuBoG009375 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:56:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DD63360.54DDC134@snet.net> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:00:33 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c28d61$7b642520$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Subject: Re: LF: 73Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie Will take a look tonight, but with New England covered by a big nor'easter all weekend prodducing several inches of rain conditions may be noisey. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Laurie Mayhead wrote: > Hi John,Dex and all, > I may have been premature in deciding not to transmit this weekend ! (Alan > thinks I was Hi! ) > At the moment the Kp index is down to 1 so this should be ideal for a T/A > crossing. > I will be on tonight from about 23:00UTC > Freq 72.401 QRSS120 > Hope some of you will be able to watch,and that we can learn a bit more > about propagation. > 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1899 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 11:06:15 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 11:06:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 7922 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Nov 2002 11:08:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 11:08:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18D0nf-0000x6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:07:43 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.211] (helo=cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18D0nf-0000wx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:07:43 +0000 Received: from modem-168.maryland.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.71.168] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18D0nb-0006Qo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:07:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c28d61$7b642520$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:13:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73Khz Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John,Dex and all, I may have been premature in deciding not to transmit this weekend ! (Alan thinks I was Hi! ) At the moment the Kp index is down to 1 so this should be ideal for a T/A crossing. I will be on tonight from about 23:00UTC Freq 72.401 QRSS120 Hope some of you will be able to watch,and that we can learn a bit more about propagation. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10099 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 06:22:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 06:22:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11031 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2002 06:25:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2002 06:25:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CwJz-0008UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:20:47 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CwJy-0008UD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:20:47 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA3dd5e36e50f8 for ; Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:19:26 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 12:19:16 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <000c01c28cd7$d8dcc700$69e8fc3e@l8p8y6> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: vertical/loop Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Mal and Group. On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, hamilton mal wrote: > and have found the vertical a lot better and easier to tame, easy to match > using a series inductor and tuned against an insulated ground radial > system to match 50 ohms, and manageable RF current to get up to 1W erp > radiated power. To try doing the same with a vertical loop at the same > height would require 50 + amps RF and I would not even consider this > approach at this power level. I do not see any unsolvable problem with 50 or 100 amps in a loop. It is usial RF curent in transistor TX of power of few kW. But surely one should put some attention to conections and use large diameter wires at this curent level. Besides one can use ferrite transformer to convert large curent input to less curent input and THEN compensate iductance. It will requre not so large C of variabale capacitor to tune. My recieving small loop is done in such a way :-) Certanly in transmiting loop one should use large ferrite core to build such a transformer. If Rac of a transmiting loop is about 0.5 Ohm (Bill's example) then one should use 1:10 transformer to get 50 Ohm. Curent will change from 50 A to 5 A only. Or use 10 turns loop - it give the same. Sure in free field vertical is better and more easy to build. But it may be some special case when loop is better. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10449 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 18:51:05 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 18:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 14045 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 18:52:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 18:52:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ClYG-0007KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:50:48 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ClYF-0007K9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:50:47 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.232.105]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021115185046.XGPJ15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:50:46 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28cd7$d8dcc700$69e8fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:49:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: vertical/loop Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All
 
My argument is that a vertical antenna has the advantage over a loop at the same height out in the open ie the middle of a field. Some others are discussing environmental issues like verticals and loops in amongst trees, buildings and other RF absorbing obstacles.
The facts are  being distorted because of local environmental issues instead of comparing the two antennas on LF where both systems are small physically compared to the frequency. 
Only those with sufficient unobstructed space are in a position to test one against the other for a true accessment.
In reality most radio amateurs have to cope with small gardens, bushes, trees, adjacent buildings and telegraph poles etc, so they make the best of their situation, but on LF this can be a problem with antenna installations and one has to use a CONVENIENCE antenna rather than the ideal and it might well be that a loop in some cases wrapped around trees works better for some than a vertical lying up against the same trees but these circumstances are not valid arguments for a true accessment of comparing verticals against vertically orientated loops.
Although I do have some high trees on my property I have several acres tree free for antenna testing.
and have found the vertical a lot better and easier to tame, easy to match using a series inductor and tuned against an insulated ground radial system to match 50 ohms, and manageable RF current to get up to 1W erp radiated power. To try doing the same with a vertical loop at the same height would require 50 + amps RF and I would not even consider this approach at this power level.
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
 
     
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18189 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 17:34:45 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 17:34:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 11086 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 17:34:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 17:34:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CkKp-0007A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:32:51 +0000 Received: from [167.142.229.65] (helo=cgpf2.cgp.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CkKo-00079v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:32:50 +0000 Received: from [167.142.32.126] (HELO netins.net) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 176849921; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:32:49 -0600 Message-ID: <3DD52FC1.3020803@netins.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:32:49 -0600 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20021115131705.6908974764@smtp5.wanadoo.nl> Subject: Re: LF: Homebrew'd Radio Projects [Humor] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dad gum it anyhow! Yew fergot the grid-leak pans! Doc. K. Versteeg wrote: >Subject: Big Wally's Secrets of Homebrew'd Radio Projects > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8582 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 16:43:36 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 16:43:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 1212 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:05:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:05:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Ch5Y-0006TU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:04:52 +0000 Received: from [204.60.203.69] (helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Ch5X-0006TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:04:51 +0000 Received: from snet.net (21.235.252.64.snet.net [64.252.235.21]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id gAFDxxoG011677 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:00:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DD5019F.A0B6D0C8@snet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:16:00 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alex Us loop users here have been seeing the ground loss contributing about 0.3 ohm (plus or minus .1 ohm depending on soil type and moisture content). In my case, using an RG-11 loop conductor, the Rac of the loop is about .28 ohm for a total resistance of about .58 ohm. If I were to change to a lossless conductor I would expect to only pick up about 4.6 dB. Using my RG-11 as a reference, and .3 ohm ground loss, the performance of other conductors should be as follows: #12 -3.94 dB #8 -2.35 dB RG-11 (.325") 0 1/2" Cu tubing (.630") +1.23 dB 7/8" Heliax (~.925") +1.68 dB Of course, lower ground loss (which I'm not blessed with) would make a somewhat bigger difference. Bill Ashlock's measurements have shown that the loop needs to be at least 5 - 6 feet off the ground. He's currently running a 1/2" copper tubing loop. If you're interested, I'm sure he can forward volumes of data on these loops to you! Jay Rusgrove, W1VD "Alexander S. Yurkov" wrote: > Hi, Mike and Group. > > On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, WE0H wrote: > > > Hi Alex, > > We use vertical loops here. The trees don't affect them much. I can walk up > > to my loop and watch the RF current meter and not see any change until I get > > closer than 1 foot from the loop and then it drops a little. They work nice > > with all my trees in my yard. > > It seems to me the problem loop vs vertical requre to solve very worth > problem pointed as folows. Certanly if one increase diameter of wire (may > be long flat band?) effectivity of a loop should be increased also. But if > wire diameter is very (!!!) large then enviroment (ground also) losses > became significal. If the coper resistance is less then enviroment loss > resistance it is no reason to increase wire diameter more. So enviroment > loss give a physical limit of loop effectivity. But what is this physical > limit? How much one should increase wire diameter? Enviroment loss is > not large but what it's value? It is very worth... > > It seems distance of loop from the ground and loop dimensions should > affect very much to ground loss of a loop and then to required wire > diameter. Quantative study of this mater should be very usefull. > > 73 de RA9MB/Alex > http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9783 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 16:18:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 16:18:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17513 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 13:26:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 13:26:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CgTW-0006KC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:25:34 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CgTV-0006Jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:25:33 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA3dd4f4d54cab for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:21:25 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:21:14 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <001501c28c9b$eda10ed0$0700000a@parissn2> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Group. On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Stewart Nelson wrote: > 3. Put a suitable light bulb in series. Measure the brightness > with a light meter, then see how much DC or mains frequency > current it takes to produce the same brightness. More easy way: take two identical light bulb one in RF another in DC simultaniously. And You do not need light meter, You can see directly when brightness is the same. But this is right only if skin effect in bulb filament is not strong (pentation depth is much grater then filament diameter). On 136 kHz it should be OK. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3647 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 16:16:49 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 16:16:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 5982 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:45:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:45:18 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ChuM-0006iN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:57:22 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ChuL-0006iD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:57:21 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-24.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1037372236!39487 Received: (qmail 5735 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-24.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:57:17 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:57:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FP095; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:00:47 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:57:17 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 09:57:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alex, >> My present loop is constructed from .63" OD copper pipe. The figure of merit >> for 50/50 loop antennas is the total AC resistance (Rac), including ground >> losses, and this one measures under 0.4 ohms. An RG-8 loop of the same >> dimensions will have a dry Rac of 0.60 ohms and is one that has more appeal >> to the average Lowfer. Signal is down just 1.7db from the pipe loop. >The loop perimeter is 60 meters. >Wire resistance: >R1 [Ohm/m] = ( 0.084 / d[mm] )*sqrt(F[MHz]) = ( 0.084 / 16 )*sqrt(0.185) = 0.0023 Ohm/m >Rac (copper) = 60*0.0023 = 0.14 Ohm. >You get Rac = 0.4 Ohm . So enviroment loss resistance should be >0.4 - 0.14 =0.26 Ohm. >Someone wrong? No - You're Lookin good! >You get 0.6 Ohm if RG-8 used. Enviroment loss should be the same, >0.26 Ohm. So 0.60 - 0.26 = 0.34 Ohm is copper resistance of RG-8. >Then diameter should be 16*(0.14/0.34)= 6.6 mm. I am not familar with >RG-8. Is it diameter about 7 mm? More like 9.2mm, but I put in a -16% factor for the Rac of copper braid Vs solid copper shell. >If TX power is about 1 kW it seems posible to get about 1 W ERP. Not >very bad... I don't disagree! How does that old proverb go? ..... Try it, you'll like it. Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31318 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 16:12:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 16:12:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4928 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:43:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:43:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Chsb-0006h8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:55:33 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Chsa-0006gz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:55:33 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA3dd509bb59e0 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:50:35 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:50:26 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <3DD5019F.A0B6D0C8@snet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Jay. On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Jay Rusgrove wrote: > > Bill Ashlock's measurements have shown that the loop needs to be at least 5 - 6 > feet off the ground. He's currently running a 1/2" copper tubing loop. If you're > interested, I'm sure he can forward volumes of data on these loops to you! It is very interesting how enviroment loss depend on offset from the ground and on loop dimensions quantative. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15803 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 15:24:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 15:24:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23067 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:26:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:26:53 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ChZH-0006bI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:35:35 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ChZG-0006b8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:35:35 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA3dd5057456d4 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:32:20 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:32:10 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Bill. On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ashlock,William wrote: > > My present loop is constructed from .63" OD copper pipe. The figure of merit > for 50/50 loop antennas is the total AC resistance (Rac), including ground > losses, and this one measures under 0.4 ohms. An RG-8 loop of the same > dimensions will have a dry Rac of 0.60 ohms and is one that has more appeal > to the average Lowfer. Signal is down just 1.7db from the pipe loop. The loop perimeter is 60 meters. Wire resistance: R1 [Ohm/m] = ( 0.084 / d[mm] )*sqrt(F[MHz]) = ( 0.084 / 16 )*sqrt(0.185) = 0.0023 Ohm/m Rac (copper) = 60*0.0023 = 0.14 Ohm. You get Rac = 0.4 Ohm . So enviroment loss resistance should be 0.4 - 0.14 =0.26 Ohm. Someone wrong? You get 0.6 Ohm if RG-8 used. Enviroment loss should be the same, 0.26 Ohm. So 0.60 - 0.26 = 0.34 Ohm is copper resistance of RG-8. Then diameter should be 16*(0.14/0.34)= 6.6 mm. I am not familar with RG-8. Is it diameter about 7 mm? If TX power is about 1 kW it seems posible to get about 1 W ERP. Not very bad... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29171 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 14:23:07 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 14:23:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20476 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 13:21:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 13:21:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CgLN-0006H6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:17:09 +0000 Received: from [194.134.35.176] (helo=smtp5.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CgLM-0006Gu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:17:08 +0000 Received: from nl9222@wanadoo (p3029.vwr.wanadoo.nl [194.134.219.222]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 6908974764 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:17:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 14:15:43 +0100 From: "K. Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Foxmail 4.1 [eg] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021115131705.6908974764@smtp5.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Homebrew'd Radio Projects [Humor] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Subject: Big Wally's Secrets of Homebrew'd Radio Projects One think i learned in high-school: the fast cars won the quarters on the strip. The pretty cars won the dates! Remember and take heart, oh ye of little skill. Even though you can't even successfully snap in a 9v battery, and none of your xtal sets work, You can still impress your BA friends with your projects by the simple inclusion of the following: HRO Dial: a must for this op, who has a hand fulla thumbs. No matter how lousey and instable your wobbulator might be, this'll cure it. Remember, it's not performance, it's the look. Can't locate the dial and PW box? Go for an Eddystone slide rule on Ebay. Whatever that baby is bolted to has gotta work great! Even if it's . . . . nothing! Fluted knobs with skirts. Yeah, whatever they connect to is the essence of function ! Everyone'll know you got skill and class. Triplett metering. Gotta have those babies. None of those Radio Shed japaneeze things. In a pinch, Weston will do. Maybe a rheostat and a penlight cell just to make 'em move. Ooops, dang, that's a separate project. Sorry. Black or Grey wrinkle finish front panel. Not matter how vacuous the insides might really be, the OTers will always tell you "they don't make 'em like THAT anymore!" Toggle Switches! Lots. String 'em along the bottom of the front panel. Make sure they're shiney. Nothing like efficient switching of . . . uh . . . . circuit things. Muffin Fan. Now, that ain't real boatanchory, but you can hide it. It's the sound yer after! Ever turn on a rig, and hear that fan crank up? Didn't something inside of you say "Whoa!!" ?? At least one 807 or an 811a with a storage battery. The idea is to make it glow. It would help if you had a ceramic plate cap and some real thick wire wrapped around it attached. Later, you can upgrade it by putting a resistor with a few turns of wire around it between the cap and real thick wire. Make sure wire goes thru a hole in the chassis. Big ol' transformer. Just punch a hole for the wires, and bolt 'er on! This is what keeps boatanchors from floatin', y'know! Big variable capacitors. Very impressive when you lift the lid or look behind that black wrinkle finished front panel they don't make anymore. Might even consider connecting that variable to the HRO or Eddystone dial so that it turns. Really retro, there. Coils! Coils! Coils! Like the Elvis movie. Thick cotton covered power line with double fused Johnson wall plug. Make sure the part of the line that doesn't have the plug on it isn't touching anything, or that the wires aren't touching each other. Hey, safety first! Pepper the table it's sitting on with knife switches, old QSTs, a globe, and it helps to have a pipe cradled in a glass ashtray somewhere in view. Get that old log-book too! No log book? Use an accounting ledger. Borrow your kid's stereo headphones. Just for effect. Gotta Key? Hey, gotta Bug? Even if you don't know a dit from an armpit, just park it there. Most folks won't notice there's no wire connecting it anywhere. Let me ask you: did you notice that the Monkees never seemed to have their guitars plugged into anything? Hah--- gotcha! D-104's might be an alternative, but your visitor might wonder what channel you modjitate on. Now, just guide your visitor in for a brief few minutes. Remember . . you have to tune it up, yet, so (ahem) it's not in line, yet. That's why you have that broken oscilloscope sitting there. Make sure the light is kinda dim, maybe a small desk-lamp. Turn it on, hear the fan, see the tubes glow, and shut 'er down before ya hurts somebody. **Whew!** Sure is a lot to this Homebrew stuff! 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 520 12' 15.0"N Long: 040 51' 40.5"E] ** Digital and Visual Amateur Radio Software ** http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29716 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 13:50:58 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 13:50:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 29664 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 12:49:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 12:49:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Cft1-00067d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:47:51 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Cft0-00067U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:47:50 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-236.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.236] helo=dellboy) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Cft0-0004mq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c28ca5$4f6f9380$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:48:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hugh. Quick and dirty way.... Fire up a 100W jap rig on 160 into a 50 ohm load. At full welly of 100W you should read 1.4A into the load. If the tx has a power meter or you have an external one in line then you can set it to exactly 100W. Most rigs give about 110 or 120 flat-out. If it were 120W you should read 1.55A so you won't be far out. I just calibrated mine against a thermocouple ammeter which I checked with 50Hz and a DMM. Dave G3YXM. > But how can I calibrate it - how do I know that an indicated Amp really is > an Amp. > My DVMs, being intended for mains current measurement, don't have the > frequency response. > How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? > 73 > Hugh M0WYE > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25604 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 13:07:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 13:07:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17744 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 13:06:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 13:06:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CgAF-0006DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:05:39 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CgAE-0006D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:05:38 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA3dd4f09b495b for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:03:23 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:03:12 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Mike and Group. On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, WE0H wrote: > Hi Alex, > We use vertical loops here. The trees don't affect them much. I can walk up > to my loop and watch the RF current meter and not see any change until I get > closer than 1 foot from the loop and then it drops a little. They work nice > with all my trees in my yard. It seems to me the problem loop vs vertical requre to solve very worth problem pointed as folows. Certanly if one increase diameter of wire (may be long flat band?) effectivity of a loop should be increased also. But if wire diameter is very (!!!) large then enviroment (ground also) losses became significal. If the coper resistance is less then enviroment loss resistance it is no reason to increase wire diameter more. So enviroment loss give a physical limit of loop effectivity. But what is this physical limit? How much one should increase wire diameter? Enviroment loss is not large but what it's value? It is very worth... It seems distance of loop from the ground and loop dimensions should affect very much to ground loss of a loop and then to required wire diameter. Quantative study of this mater should be very usefull. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10939 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 12:42:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 12:42:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19769 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:41:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:41:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Cepp-0005pI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:40:29 +0000 Received: from [165.254.158.18] (helo=mail.mcf.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Cepp-0005p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:40:29 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (213.41.137.138) by mail.mcf.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.2a6) for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 06:40:29 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c28c9b$eda10ed0$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:41:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Hugh, You don't say what other instruments you have available, but here are a few suggestions: 1. Measure the RF voltage across the dummy load with a scope. Determine current by knowing or measuring its resistance. A dummy load usable at 10 meters should be very close to its DC resistance at 1.8 MHz. 2. Measure how hot the dummy load gets, then see how much DC or mains frequency current it takes to produce the same final temperature. 3. Put a suitable light bulb in series. Measure the brightness with a light meter, then see how much DC or mains frequency current it takes to produce the same brightness. 4. Rig a simple diode rectifier to measure the RF voltage. Either compensate the reading with an estimate of the diode drop, or calibrate the rectifier at mains frequency. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "g6tmk" To: Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:33 AM Subject: LF: Calibrating LF Current Meters > Hi All, > I built the little antenna current meter shown in the LF Experimenters > Handbook last night (Page 81). > And it works. I measured the current from my HF rig into a dummy load at > 1.8MHz, and it gave sensible results ... > But how can I calibrate it - how do I know that an indicated Amp really is > an Amp. > My DVMs, being intended for mains current measurement, don't have the > frequency response. > How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? > 73 > Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6310 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 12:37:08 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 12:37:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 14447 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:36:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:36:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Cehn-0005ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:32:11 +0000 Received: from [130.244.199.132] (helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Cehn-0005ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:32:11 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.41.207]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20021115113209.JXJY19843.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:32:09 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c28c9a$c4c9b1c0$ac2765d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:32:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040109040501080608040901" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0tests=MIME_SUSPECT_NAME,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040109040501080608040901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hugh, > How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? I built a 1A antenna current meter with a current transformer. For calibration, I put a 10 ohm resistor (actually 10 x 100 ohms 1W in parallel) in series with the meter and applied RF from a 137 kHz TX until the oscilloscope reading was 28.3Vp-p. The potentiometer in the meter was then adjusted for full scale deflection. Just an example. A small drawing is attached. 73 Johan SM6LKM --------------040109040501080608040901 Content-Type: image/tiff; name="currcal.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="currcal.gif" R0lGODlhjgBUAIAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAAjgBUAAAC/oyPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm 6sq27gvH8kzX9gLk+s73/g/83VSAW3GIOtaUyNIxCGUqpA9qM/TEWAPFrUHqvXayF6ZSV0WE xRuyxVyBs0fuuNp+WM+1X34kl7aH1Zegx/XHBchgKEjhttOgaHgW2QjymLeYCSE3ZflB1lm4 yeP5tcX4yUkIhkNKWYimqcqRpXg3Snio60hb22dFBcta5tsGPMsLlppr7Ne1WLo5NhZlfX1b vPuWl83MXLkCnjvOCn2KG34srlHXm3gbvzzczlJO6peodracXs+e4Qm2HpH4meJVBlKKewhb iIrT7wTDbS8eTvAyEVFA/hkWNaqj026gyJHjhB0UkZHjukytSKSMMbElxZmgnNF8N03mIGPZ uO2TNW2nr4wydV7i+Sud0YskCQ55efMknn82oEZt5pPqjJ5JP2bdSIMrtWT5wHK0OiWi1rIw 0EYDus7Hxa0APeg0E+xs3bFB45F14TaQXay7MKokIpbtPMNtTQCp6Q+dV3sue8JdifAyYcoo J6/Fq+8v56OezSoLunkvX9FrI6OCeQmjwq6rXDWGnAxqysBzBzug1/qrQ9+/UZtmO7yNHuDH td0OOMm4lqbSYN5LfJC3bUHYu1WvfVUo99neparTbt6SXBzRG7q02Vsw+tTwtxd3D7K+x4Ka Od/rBy/YQv8BeB8RA1bRnoEH/rZGf/4tWNBb1FEHIYLydNFdhW1lqGGHHn4IYogijkhiiSae aEIBAAA7 --------------040109040501080608040901-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23354 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:45:20 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:45:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23200 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:44:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:44:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CetG-0005rx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:44:02 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.19] (helo=cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CetG-0005ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:44:02 +0000 Received: from modem-98.androth.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.108.98] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18CetD-0006Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c28c9d$63896ce0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:08:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 Transatlantic. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All, I stated earlier that I was hoping for an opening around the middle of this month.This was based on an X class flare on 31st Oct. Allowing 14 plus days for the effects to decay should have resulted in suitable conditions about now.However there has been further Solar activity recently causing the Kp index to rise to 3 or more. This seems to mean too much absorbtion. So no beacon this weekend. I will watch conditions and advise if I think things look promising. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31749 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:45:06 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:45:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28064 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 11:44:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:44:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Cesx-0005rP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:43:43 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Cesx-0005rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:43:43 +0000 Received: from host62-6-68-211.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.68.211] helo=main) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Cesw-0000Qe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:43:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c28c9c$3ef49b80$d344063e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:43:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Hugh, two possible methods, one, put the power through the meter into a dummy lead, and measure the voltage generated across the load with a scope (easiest) or using an RF diode probe (but there is another calibration problem there). (Remember peak-to-peak voltage is 2.8 * rms ) Meters of this type are probably only accurate to about 10% and that is adequate for most amateur aerial work, as you are mainly looking for changes....increases!!. Another way would be to put it in series with an RF thermoammeter (if you are lucky enough to have one) The bandwidth of the meter will depend on the ferrite used, and the number of turns. Cheers de Alan G3NYK -----Original Message----- From: g6tmk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 15 November 2002 10:45 Subject: LF: Calibrating LF Current Meters >Hi All, >I built the little antenna current meter shown in the LF Experimenters >Handbook last night (Page 81). >And it works. I measured the current from my HF rig into a dummy load at >1.8MHz, and it gave sensible results ... >But how can I calibrate it - how do I know that an indicated Amp really is >an Amp. >My DVMs, being intended for mains current measurement, don't have the >frequency response. >How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? >73 >Hugh M0WYE > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29367 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:38:26 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:38:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23346 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 11:37:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:37:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CeeK-0005ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:28:36 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CeeJ-0005hR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:28:35 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAFBS5uw027688 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:28:05 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115120221.02a5ecc8@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:34:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SAVE_MONEY,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Hugh, The way I calibrated mine : Connect the TX to a 50 Ohm dummyload, current meter between TX and dummyload. Measure the voltage over the the dummyload, either by using a suitable RF voltmeter or a detector and DC voltmeter. The detector is no more that a diode that rectifies the AC, followed by a RC parallel network to ground (I used 100kOhm/1nF) . The diode should be fast enough (not a big problem at LF, MF and lower HF) and be able to handle the voltage (that can be a bit of a problem for higher power, for 10W the Vpp is 63V, for 100W it is 200V and for 1 kW it is 630V). As I wanted to use a scotky diode out of the junkbox (that could withstand 80V = max. Vpp) it meant that Veff was limited to 28V. But my 450W PA would give 150Veff (= 425Vpp), so over 5 times too high. I solved that by putting a 10/1 divider in parallel with the dummyload and rectified the divided voltage, that way I was save up to 280Veff (= 1.5kW). The resistive divider was 5kOhm (made of 3 x 15kOhm/2W) and 560 Ohm/1W. I wanted to calibrate my meter in the range of 0.5A - 3A, that is 25 -150V over the dummyload (or 12.5 - 450W into the dummyload). so at the divider output I had 2.5V - 15V and 3.5V - 21V at the detector output. To be exact one shoud add about 0.4V for the drop over the diode and calculate the current through the dummyload 'all the way back'. eg : 7.2Vdc measured = 7.6Vp = 5.37Veff at the divider output = 53.7Veff over the dummyload = 1.07A 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:33 15/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi All, >I built the little antenna current meter shown in the LF Experimenters >Handbook last night (Page 81). >And it works. I measured the current from my HF rig into a dummy load at >1.8MHz, and it gave sensible results ... >But how can I calibrate it - how do I know that an indicated Amp really is >an Amp. >My DVMs, being intended for mains current measurement, don't have the >frequency response. >How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? >73 >Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 500 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 11:12:08 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 11:12:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23640 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 10:31:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 10:31:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Cdqx-0005YK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:37:35 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Cdqx-0005YB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:37:35 +0000 Received: (qmail 3168 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 10:37:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hugh) (212.159.90.113) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 10:37:02 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c28c92$7ca50aa0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:33:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Calibrating LF Current Meters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi All, I built the little antenna current meter shown in the LF Experimenters Handbook last night (Page 81). And it works. I measured the current from my HF rig into a dummy load at 1.8MHz, and it gave sensible results ... But how can I calibrate it - how do I know that an indicated Amp really is an Amp. My DVMs, being intended for mains current measurement, don't have the frequency response. How have other people done it ? Any ideas ? 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 649 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 05:29:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 05:29:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16218 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 04:27:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 04:27:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CY41-0004he-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:26:41 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CY40-0004hU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:26:40 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA3dd476a1601d for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:22:57 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:22:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Group. On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ashlock,William wrote: > > >A canopy of trees will also effect a loop antenna, try a 50 ft vertical and > >gain 6dbs and you will probably still be on the plus side even with some > >attenuation from the trees. > > You sir, are absolutely WRONG! > > A spent 100s of hours on my vertical antennas before changing over to loops. It seems to me a loop (if wire diameter is large) may be bit better then vertical of same dimension if there are lot of enviroment losses (many trees and so on). Loop should be less sensetive to enviroment then vertical. But in clear space vertical should be better. Generally by increasing wire diameter one can increase loop effectivity. Unfortutenly You can't increse vertical effectivity in such a way. Any way comprehensive study of the problem (vertical versus loop) seems to be very worth and interesting. But this require lot of work both experimental as theoretical. Hoprisontal loop can not be effective because it will produce strong current in the ground and loss should be hight. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12760 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 04:49:22 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 04:49:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 29978 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Nov 2002 04:48:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 04:48:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CYOs-0004mV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:48:14 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.205] (helo=mail0.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CYOr-0004mM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 04:48:13 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d141.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.171.15]) by mail0.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAF4mBQ62981 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:48:12 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:49:32 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Alex, We use vertical loops here. The trees don't affect them much. I can walk up to my loop and watch the RF current meter and not see any change until I get closer than 1 foot from the loop and then it drops a little. They work nice with all my trees in my yard. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Alexander S. Yurkov Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 4:23 AM To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Hi, Group. On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Ashlock,William wrote: > > >A canopy of trees will also effect a loop antenna, try a 50 ft vertical and > >gain 6dbs and you will probably still be on the plus side even with some > >attenuation from the trees. > > You sir, are absolutely WRONG! > > A spent 100s of hours on my vertical antennas before changing over to loops. It seems to me a loop (if wire diameter is large) may be bit better then vertical of same dimension if there are lot of enviroment losses (many trees and so on). Loop should be less sensetive to enviroment then vertical. But in clear space vertical should be better. Generally by increasing wire diameter one can increase loop effectivity. Unfortutenly You can't increse vertical effectivity in such a way. Any way comprehensive study of the problem (vertical versus loop) seems to be very worth and interesting. But this require lot of work both experimental as theoretical. Hoprisontal loop can not be effective because it will produce strong current in the ground and loss should be hight. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31906 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 28385 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 03:19:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 03:19:53 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CWzh-0004Sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:18:09 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CWzg-0004Sd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:18:08 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1037330283!2003 Received: (qmail 32325 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2002 03:18:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-13.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2002 03:18:03 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:17:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FP72N; Fri, 15 Nov 2002 03:21:28 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:17:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:17:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Mal, Sort of figured you would be popping in on this. >A loop only 6db down is a BIG DOWN ie signal 4 times weaker than a vertical 6db is 6db! That's 1/2 the reading in uv/m on my SVM. You can try to over emphasize this by stating the power multiplier. So far I'm NOT impressed. >A canopy of trees will also effect a loop antenna, try a 50 ft vertical and >gain 6dbs and you will probably still be on the plus side even with some >attenuation from the trees. You sir, are absolutely WRONG! A spent 100s of hours on my vertical antennas before changing over to loops. I carefully set up receiving sites at which to measure the far field radiation with an accurate SVM. The field strength closely matched the mathematics for a vertical radiator of my size, and current distribution. The problem was high system resistance (as it appears to be in most of the poor vertical installations). The system resistance plots from the chart recorder made an excellent report of the sap content in the trees totally surrounding the top hat. The only time the resistance was a worthy number, say 50 ohms, was when the temperature dropped below 10deg F. This when most of the sap exited from the branches are was stored in the roots. In the summer the system resistance could be as high as 150 ohms. I even designed a tree sensing probe that measured the effective series resistance of the tress. When I set up my first 50' x 50' loop I couldn't believe the increase in signal at all my monitoring locations! About 6db using a #12 loop wire. At that point I knew I had something worth investment of more time and began a series of tests to determine the effect of varying everything: the number of loop conductors (parallel and series connected), the effect of the spacing to the ground, the effect of placing the loop right over the top of the trees, the effect of ground moisture content, the effect of varying the conductor diameter, use of Litz wire. I then spend many hours analyzing this data and applied the math to it. In summary: LF loops can be placed on the top of trees with lees than a 1db loss in loop current and the signal strength in the far field is very close to the numbers from the text books. My present loop is constructed from .63" OD copper pipe. The figure of merit for 50/50 loop antennas is the total AC resistance (Rac), including ground losses, and this one measures under 0.4 ohms. An RG-8 loop of the same dimensions will have a dry Rac of 0.60 ohms and is one that has more appeal to the average Lowfer. Signal is down just 1.7db from the pipe loop. I wish you well my friend with your monster vertical, but just remember there are 'mortals' like myself that are perfectly content with a 'second rate' loop that installs in a couple of hours, doesn't need a ground sytem or a chain saw, is nearly invisible to friends and neighbors...... and gets out dam well, to boot! Perhaps next year we can learn the real truth about how these antennas compare by looking at each others signal strength readings? Bill Ashlock _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20878 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 6977 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:41:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:41:57 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CN2T-0002FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:40:21 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CN2S-0002FN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:40:20 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.208.108]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021114164020.ZQLZ21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:40:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c28bfc$754b8c20$6cd0fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:31:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: puzzle Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The odd Off Topic message, especially radio related is not a problem but it looks like the PUZZLE has taken over this reflector lately.
de G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13831 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 20:25:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 20:25:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23102 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 18:07:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:07:14 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CONa-0002bL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:14 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CONZ-0002b6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:13 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18COJx-0006o7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:02:29 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18COJv-0002Jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:02:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114165216.00aff730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:03:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <20021114161309.LHAD3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> References: <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 16:14 14/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > >Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? > > > > Use a vertical sense aerial with it. >Fine on receive, but a bit limited on transmit. You might do better to get rid of the loop and just use the sense aerial... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13513 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 20:07:52 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 20:07:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 13252 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 18:47:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:47:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CP0y-0002tH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:56 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CP0x-0002t8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:55 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.208.83]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021114184654.OTRZ3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:54 +0000 Message-ID: <007501c28c0e$2410b260$6cd0fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:46:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashlock,William" To: Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:50 AM Subject: LF: RE: Loop vs Marconi > Peter, > > >When we started on 73kHz some years ago G2AJV was the first to put out a > reasonably > >strong signal and he was using a large loop. G4JNT and G3XDV also put out > reasonable > >signals from very restricted sites and later found that a Marconi from the > same site > >radiated a stronger signal for the same transmitter power. As a result it > >has become part of UK LF collective wisdom that the Marconi is superior to > a > >loop of the same size. > > That was also the 'collective wisdom' amongst Lowfers in the US, until 3 > years ago. The Wisdom was based on 'cut and try' and "how am I coming in?" > types of scientific study. The net result in the US was ZERO loop antennas. > It is also the 'collective wisdom' of most Low frequency textbooks in the > MIT Engineering library dating back to the 1920s that loops have no > practical use for transmitting at low frequencies. > > I have spent 100s of hours experimenting with different configurations > making field strength measurements, comparing them with the classic > radiation equations, determining the effect of soil loss, and conductor > loss, determining if a ground screen is needed. My data and mathematical > studies indicate that a simple 50'x50' loop with a .37" conductor is ~6db > inferior to a 50' tall vertical, A loop only 6db down is a BIG DOWN ie signal 4 times weaker than a vertical having a 50' diameter top hat and with a > elaborate ground system located in an open field. On my property, because of > the canopy of trees, A canopy of trees will also effect a loop antenna, try a 50 ft vertical and gain 6dbs and you will probably still be on the plus side even with some attenuation from the trees. there is absolutely no hope for a vertical antenna and > I spent 2 years with the same diligence with verticals as I have with my > loop antenna and it ended in failure - as is the case for, no doubt, for > many other vertical users that we don't hear from any more. > > I'm not surprised at all about the mediocre reputation of loop antennas when > I read about other loop antenna descriptions. I often find conductor Rac > inadequate and loop-to-ground spacing too small, poor matching, and a > general lack of knowing what math to apply to these variables. There is one > 'expert' that doesn't even know how to match a coax to a large loop and > boasts how poorly his 'best effort' loop compares to his vertical on > receive. Bill. I have tried fairly large loops, matching correctly at the loop/coax end both series and parallel systems for comparison and on Receive they work but not as well as the vertical. On the question of Transmitting, some here in the UK are aiming to run the max power permitted ie 1W erp. This means running power levels of up to 2000 Watts to small verticals to achieve the object. RF current at these power levels is manageable at SEVERAL amps using a vertical antenna but using a so called large loop the RF current could be up to 100 amps and virtually impossible to operate. In the USA as you have said the permitted power level is so low that you do not have a problem with a loop with RF current of a few milliamps. Your circumstances over there are totally different to the UK and some parts of EU. Recent mail posted here by Jim about loops and RF amperage and by Peter about those that started with loops and then switched to verticals, find the vertical superior given the same circumstances. I always thought a vertical took up less space than a large loop and has the advantage of being omni directional as opposed to a loop limitations being only bi-directional. Some UK/EU stations are using both loop and vertical antennas and their signal are much superior when using the vertical. The only loop with an advantage is one used on a frequency with its natural resonance on that frequency ie a 20 metre loop vertically orientated used on the 20 metre band. Horizontal loops also work well but need to be at least 1/2 wavelength high at the required frequency. These are my observations from over 50 years experience both as a radio amateur and professional in the business. The above criteria works well for me and last years transatlantic tests to W4DEX and other USA and Canadian stations proves the point. 73 de Mal/G3KEV > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6264 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 19:52:02 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 19:52:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21074 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 18:05:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:05:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18COLU-0002aH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:04:04 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18COLU-0002a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:04:04 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:03:18 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:03:18 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:03:18 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:03:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:03:17 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F92@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: puzzle Thread-Index: AcKL/V0S2u4qrMWYRIiaScttLeDbUgACrN/Q From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2002 18:03:17.0987 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C28FB30:01C28C08] Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Subject: LF: SV: puzzle X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0tests=HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
but it is so easy to delete
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: hamilton mal [mailto:g3kev.ham@virgin.net]
Sendt: 13. november 2002 20:31
Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Emne: LF: puzzle

The odd Off Topic message, especially radio related is not a problem but it looks like the PUZZLE has taken over this reflector lately.
de G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2906 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 19:09:18 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 19:09:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 17751 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 18:07:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:07:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CONV-0002b2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:09 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CONU-0002at-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:08 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18COJk-0006lJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:02:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18COJi-0002JL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:02:14 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114103946.00a93000@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:08:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Bill, LF Group At 23:50 13/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >. My data and mathematical >studies indicate that a simple 50'x50' loop with a .37" conductor is ~6db >inferior to a 50' tall vertical, having a 50' diameter top hat and with a >elaborate ground system located in an open field. One point worth making - US Lowfer activity centres around 185k, while in Europe we are concerned with 137k. Since the radiation resistance of a vertical varies with the square of frequency, while that of a loop varies with the 4th power, the difference in frequency swings things in favour of the loop for lowfers by roughly (185/137)^2, about 2.6dB, if everything else is equal. Alternatively, you could scale the size of antennas with the wavelength, so to get the same result as Bill is talking about on 136k, we would be looking at a basic dimension of 68 feet (21m) instead of 50 feet - unrealistically big for most of us, unfortunately. My back-of envelope-reckoning goes like this:- A 10m high, 40m long antenna is the biggest I can put up. As a vertical, it has a radiation resistance of around 26milliohms. Using the same space, and with a bit of clearance for obstacles on the ground, a loop would be about 320m^2. This has a radiation resistance of 140 micro-ohms. If we are lucky, and the loop acts as if it is over a perfect ground plane, this might increase to 280 micro-ohms. To get the same radiated power, the current would have to be sqrt(26m/280u) times bigger, about 48A instead of 5A. The loss resistance of the vertical is about 40 ohms, so efficiency is about 0.00065. To get the same efficiency from the loop, the loss resistance would have to be kept down to (280u/0.00065) = 0.43 ohms. But there is also the problem of directionality of the loop. Due to the shape of my garden, it must run due E-W. But the USA, for example, is in a NW direction. This results in about 3dB "loss" in field strength in the desired direction. So to produce the same field strength as the vertical in the USA, the current would have to go up by 3dB to 68A. For the same transmitter power, this would require loss resistance to be kept below 0.22ohms. I am not sure how feasible it is to reach these figures, but I am sure it is easier to make a vertical with 40 ohm loss resistance capable of 5A antenna current than it is to make a loop with 0.22ohms and 68A antenna current. At the least, getting a sufficient amount of metal into the air would require stronger antenna supports than I currnetly have. There are plenty of unknown variables which might shift the result either way by several dB, but these can only be found by experiment. I do plan to try back-to-back comparison experiments between a loop and vertical antennas when time permits, probably next summer - but I will be surprised if a practical loop antenna proves to be more efficient than a vertical. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10400 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 18:20:57 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:20:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 26122 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 18:20:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 18:20:19 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CORK-0002fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:10:06 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CORK-0002fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:10:06 +0000 Received: from host213-122-119-184.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.119.184] helo=main) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CORJ-0005VI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:10:05 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c28c08$e9aab120$b8777ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:26:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: LF skywave Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jay, I dont think you need worry about angling signal upwards for skywave. It will only exceed groundwave strength at greater than about 600 to 700kms according to the meaurements I have seen. The steeper it goes, the deeper it goes (into the D-layer) and the more absorption it suffers. Hence no skip zone on LF. I think this distance is fairly indepenent of power level. If you concentrate on getting good strength on the ground about a mile away from the aerial, you cant go far wrong. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12649 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 17:38:09 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 17:38:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 6132 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 15:19:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 15:19:45 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CLts-0001oJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:27:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CLtr-0001oA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:27:23 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18CLVp-0007V1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:02:33 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18CLVf-0006ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:02:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114122702.00b10570@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:02:22 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <3DD389EE.E34C64A9@snet.net> References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Jay, LF group, At 06:33 14/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Not sure, but I think you can prove this with a small receive loop while >nulling out a local broadcast station. Tilt the loop even slightly off >vertical and away goes your null in a hurry. Oh no it doesn't! I have tried this with an LF loop antenna - if you have the loop horizontal, it nulls out everything from all directions, including the QRN. It would appear there really is no vertical H field near the ground for the loop to pick up at LF. Pity really, you could use the horizontal loop as an omnidirectional RX antenna otherwise. If you do this experiment with a BC band radio, and you imagine a plane cutting through the TX and RX, so long as you keep the axis of the ferrite rod in this plane (ie. at right angles to the H field), there will be a null in the signal however much you tilt the axis of the rod. Try this experiment outdoors, away from metalwork and wires which can distort the fields and spoil the null. If what you suggest about the TX loop antenna were true, the same is true of an RX loop antenna. This would mean you would never get a null in skywave DX signals with a vertical loop if they arrive at an appreciable angle. Experience shows you usually do get a reasonable null. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18251 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 17:35:43 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 17:35:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 6109 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 15:19:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 15:19:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CLa6-0001gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:06:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.91] (helo=anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CLa5-0001gg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:06:57 +0000 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18CLa3-000FU3-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:06:56 +0000 Message-ID: <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:56:05 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. J. Powell" Disposition-Notification-To: "M. J. Powell" References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> In-reply-to: <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-S () Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENTversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group In message <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie>, Steve Thompson writes >Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? Use a vertical sense aerial with it. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20504 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:38:59 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:38:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 18891 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 14:34:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 14:34:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CL70-0001Xs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:36:54 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CL70-0001Xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:36:54 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18CKp2-0002Xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:18:20 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18CKoz-0005rB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:18:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114114829.00afb870@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:17:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <000d01c28b74$3489aba0$a4417ad5@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Silicon b-e lights up !! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 23:50 13/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, Oh yes it does.....I've seen it and in fact we used to look at >silicon Planar (Fairchild TM, I think) emitter junctions for poor doping and >masking flaws using that in the early 1960s. Dear Alan, LF Group, I tried it with a 2N2222 - With a few mA B-E reverse current, I could see a few tiny dots of light under x 60 magnification. With 100mA, these merged into a continuous thin line of pinkish-white light in the gap between the base and emitter metalisation, presumably coming from the junction itself. With the high current, it was visible to the naked eye in a darkened room as a tiny dot of light. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17372 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:16:43 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:16:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 22295 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:17:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:17:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CMek-00024z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:15:50 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CMej-00024p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:15:49 +0000 Received: from host62-6-69-153.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.69.153] helo=laptop) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CMei-0001S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:15:48 +0000 Message-ID: <003a01c28bf9$1406c220$9945063e@laptop> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: "LF Group" References: <003101c28b20$d4b45e80$67967ad5@main> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:13:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Spontaflex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Hugh, Jim, Alan et al Hugh M0WYE wrote: >I wonder how you demodulate CW signals - do you allow the circuit to >oscillate as you would do with a conventional regenerative circuit ? The >basic Spontaflex seems to be an AM receiver. Yes, works just as a "conventional" regen, receiving CW whilst gently oscillating. It's a lot more sensitive in this mode than it is when demodulating an AM signal (set just short of oscillation) - much more so than I would expect, in fact. Have yet to work out why this should be - there's certainly a number of quirks in that circuit! The only real audio filtering I have at present consists of a 22nF capacitor across my pair of SG Brown "Type F" 4kohm phones, the combination resonating at about 750Hz. This has reasonably decent Q when used as the collector load of the audio output transistor, which helps in more ways than one. Jim M0BMU wrote: >The small ferrite cored inductors that are fairly readily available can be >used to make passive bandpass filters of several hundred Hz BW quite >easily. If you don't mind winding some pot cores, and have some test >equipment (audio generator & voltmeter), passive filters with bandwidth >down to 50Hz are not too difficult. With limited dynamic range, you might >be better to go for a passive preselector, which can also be made with >several 100Hz bandwidth, if you can find suitable pot cores. Alan G3NYK wrote: > As to the effects of DCF39 ....(and it may be being useful as a BFO in that > circuit !!) it is possible at the LF frequencies to build a bridged-T notch > filter that will remove DCF39 with little loss in the 136 band. You will > need a high Q inductor as its is only 1030Hz above the band , so a Q of > about 130 will still leave you with 3dB loss at the top of the band. It > should be possible to make a circuit with a Q or 500 to 600, which should > make the in-band loss almost negligible. There is even an example in the AC > analysis ZIP download (I think) using a 50uH inductor. The only difference > might be it is easier to centre-tap the coil that use a capacitor "tap" > (which was easier in the program) Hmm, interesting (particularly the notch idea). It's obviously better to put as much filtering as possible right up front, so I'll look at combining a narrow RF bandpass filter with one or maybe even two bridged-T notches to reduce the effects of the nearby commercials. It'll increase the overall size of the receiver several-fold, but then you can't have everything! I've got gain to spare in the receiver itself, so hopefully a little loss with moderate coil Q should not be too much of an issue (in fact it might even help). Will report back in due course. 73, Kevin G1HDQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17804 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:16:38 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:16:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 19739 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 16:15:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 16:15:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CMcA-00023l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:13:10 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CMcA-00023c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:13:10 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.95.1]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021114161309.LHAD3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:13:09 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:14:48 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> In-reply-to: <91pEkhAV9409EwJE@pickmere.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021114161309.LHAD3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Thursday 14 November 2002 11:56, you wrote: > In message <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie>, Steve Thompson > writes > > >Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? > > Use a vertical sense aerial with it. Fine on receive, but a bit limited on transmit. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10971 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 14:18:53 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 14:18:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 8348 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 13:04:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 13:04:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CJnI-0001F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:12:28 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CJnH-0001Em-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:12:27 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAEDBuZC058062 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:11:57 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114135046.02a5e660@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:18:06 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <3DD389EE.E34C64A9@snet.net> References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Steve and Jay, I simulated a 15m high / 30m long loop at 1m above ground (Er=5, S=0.1mS/m) using MMAMA. Results were : >The loop is actually fairly omnidirectional - just not at 0 degrees >elevation. As you move up from 0 degrees elevation the pattern starts to >"fill in" nicely in the direction of the "nulls". The nulls are minimal at an elevation of about 30 degrees (but still -15..20dB) >Not sure, but I think you can prove this with a small receive loop while >nulling out a local broadcast station. Tilt the loop even slightly off >vertical and away goes your null in a hurry. Tilting the loop didn't change the radiation pattern (vertical polarization), but it just probably reduces the radiation resistance The above assumes not "electrical pick-up". Maybe the nulls in a RX loop get smaller when tilting the loop because the magnetic component decreases while the electric component almost remains. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16511 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 12:23:35 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 12:23:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 28336 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 11:27:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 11:27:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CIEw-0000sQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:32:54 +0000 Received: from [204.60.203.69] (helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CIEv-0000sH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:32:53 +0000 Received: from snet.net (trtn-sh7-port233.snet.net [204.60.214.233]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id gAEBS6oG022652 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:28:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3DD389EE.E34C64A9@snet.net> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:33:02 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Steve The loop is actually fairly omnidirectional - just not at 0 degrees elevation. As you move up from 0 degrees elevation the pattern starts to "fill in" nicely in the direction of the "nulls". Not sure, but I think you can prove this with a small receive loop while nulling out a local broadcast station. Tilt the loop even slightly off vertical and away goes your null in a hurry. While I realize that low angle radiation is no doubt desirable, does anyone know the optimum radiation angle to best "couple" into skywave propagation for a given transmitter to receiver distance? I may have missed this info in the literature. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Steve Thompson wrote: > Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? > > Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5294 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 11:16:32 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 11:16:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 14172 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 10:15:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 10:15:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CGzp-0000Vq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:13:13 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CGzp-0000Vh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:13:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 11334 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 10:12:41 -0000 Received: from modem-48-62-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.62.48) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 10:12:41 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c28bc5$ec472960$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114102459.00aa7de0@POP3.freeler.nl> <002601c28bc3$707080e0$9d740450@oemcomputer> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:08:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Omnidirectional loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Mike wrote: > the same way as they do on VHF. Just use a > quarter-wavelength of coax!! or a 3/4 wavelength ... Or - you could spin the loop really fast. (with slip rings for the signal) For VHF DF they switch rapidly between four quarter-wave whips arranged in a square, which gives a sort of rotating aerial - you could use FETs to switch between the signals from two loops to do the same. But this would introduce a new frequency - which you could use as a beat frequency to resolve the cw. Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21896 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 09:52:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 09:52:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 24091 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 09:52:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 09:52:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CGeH-0000Pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:57 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.46] (helo=mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CGeH-0000PV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:57 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021114095056.LTTR10927.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:50:56 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c28bc3$707080e0$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20021114102459.00aa7de0@POP3.freeler.nl> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:51:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Omnidirectional loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > Another way is to use two loops crossed under 90 degrees. But you have to > introduce an extra 90 degrees phase shift in the signal from one of the > loops before combining them. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE That's easily accomplished, the same way as they do on VHF. Just use a quarter-wavelength of coax!! Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25306 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 09:39:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 09:39:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 6924 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 09:38:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 09:38:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CGQL-0000JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:36:33 +0000 Received: from [213.218.77.54] (helo=cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CGQL-0000JF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:36:33 +0000 Received: from [62.21.168.45] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18CGQF-0002Ef-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:36:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114102459.00aa7de0@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:38:26 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" In-reply-to: <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Steve,

You can make a  loop omnidirectional by mounting it horizontal. That makes it respond to the vertically polarized component of the EM field, so of no use on LF.

Another way is to use two loops crossed under 90 degrees. But you have to introduce an extra 90 degrees phase shift in the signal from one of the loops  before combining them.

73, Dick, PA0SE

At 08:27 14-11-02 +0000, you wrote:
Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional?

Steve
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26958 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:53:31 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:53:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22466 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:53:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:53:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CFjX-00007B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:52:19 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CFjX-00006v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:52:19 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gAE8pmZC015902 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021114095507.00b43320@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:57:57 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Steve, As far as I know one can not make a single loop omnidirectional. But a combination of 2 loop (under a 90 degrees angle, a kind of "crossed loops") may have an almost omnidirectional pattern. 73, Rik ON7YD At 08:27 14/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? > >Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30819 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:29:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:29:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 45 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:28:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:28:36 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CFLk-0008Rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:27:44 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CFLk-0008Rj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:27:44 +0000 Received: from jackie ([217.137.94.1]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021114082743.NSGF21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@jackie> for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:27:43 +0000 Message-ID: <004801c28bb7$b2c00580$015e89d9@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:27:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Anyone found a way to make a loop omnidirectional? Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2017 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:03:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:03:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 21723 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 08:05:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 08:05:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CEzT-0008NJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:04:43 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CEzT-0008NA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:04:43 +0000 Received: from host213-123-14-245.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.14.245] helo=dave) by einsteinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18CEzS-0005Ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:04:43 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:06:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DD35969.30941.58250D@localhost> In-reply-to: <003701c28b6d$44f37fe0$08ce28c3@erica> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Re: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group As you may remember (but it seems some don't) I have detailed information on my transmit loop on my website and a comparison with the performance of a vertical on the same site. In my case the loop clearly outperformed the vertical by a significant margin. It really is a matter of site characteristics, and it is certainly wrong to dismiss loops out of hand. We are amateurs after all, and experimentation is what we should be doing. My vertical has now been converted back to a Top Band vertical - I was very pleased to work Reino OH1UFO the other night using 5W QRP! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5789 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 05:55:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 05:55:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 2542 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 04:54:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 04:54:49 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18CBxj-0007yZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:50:43 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18CBxi-0007yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:50:42 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-24.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1037249438!4817 Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 04:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-24.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 04:50:38 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:50:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FPT9Z; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 04:54:08 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:50:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:50:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter, >When we started on 73kHz some years ago G2AJV was the first to put out a reasonably >strong signal and he was using a large loop. G4JNT and G3XDV also put out reasonable >signals from very restricted sites and later found that a Marconi from the same site >radiated a stronger signal for the same transmitter power. As a result it >has become part of UK LF collective wisdom that the Marconi is superior to a >loop of the same size. That was also the 'collective wisdom' amongst Lowfers in the US, until 3 years ago. The Wisdom was based on 'cut and try' and "how am I coming in?" types of scientific study. The net result in the US was ZERO loop antennas. It is also the 'collective wisdom' of most Low frequency textbooks in the MIT Engineering library dating back to the 1920s that loops have no practical use for transmitting at low frequencies. I have spent 100s of hours experimenting with different configurations making field strength measurements, comparing them with the classic radiation equations, determining the effect of soil loss, and conductor loss, determining if a ground screen is needed. My data and mathematical studies indicate that a simple 50'x50' loop with a .37" conductor is ~6db inferior to a 50' tall vertical, having a 50' diameter top hat and with a elaborate ground system located in an open field. On my property, because of the canopy of trees, there is absolutely no hope for a vertical antenna and I spent 2 years with the same diligence with verticals as I have with my loop antenna and it ended in failure - as is the case for, no doubt, for many other vertical users that we don't hear from any more. I'm not surprised at all about the mediocre reputation of loop antennas when I read about other loop antenna descriptions. I often find conductor Rac inadequate and loop-to-ground spacing too small, poor matching, and a general lack of knowing what math to apply to these variables. There is one 'expert' that doesn't even know how to match a coax to a large loop and boasts how poorly his 'best effort' loop compares to his vertical on receive. Regards, Bill Ashlock PS: I would give my eye teeth to be able to set up a loop and vertical in that large field for a shootout. Perhaps the opportunity will arrive before long! _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 348 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:36:38 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:36:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 25963 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 23:35:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 23:35:54 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18C71v-0007Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:34:43 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18C71v-0007CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:34:43 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-8.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.8] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18C71u-000LoV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:34:42 +0000 Message-ID: <003701c28b6d$44f37fe0$08ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:48:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Loop vs Marconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Bill A said: > Gee, Mal, if all of us follow this general statement of yours, you will have > few new stations to contact (as you were complaining about only a month > ago). All debates aside, at least the loop allows a way for a number of us > to transmit on LF .......... with sites impossible on which to erect a > vertical. And don't be concerned about the 100w power level, proposed in the > US, over- driving a 50'x50' loop. A 12Ga wire has no problem with the 8.3A > of current at 100W. > > BTW: The number of TX loop using Lowfers will likely outnumber the number of > vertical using Lowfers (the active ones) in the US this winter! It is interesting that Lowfers in the USA have found the transmitting loop superior to the Marconi in a restricted QTH. When we started on 73kHz some years ago G2AJV was the first to put out a reasonably strong signal and he was using a large loop. G4JNT and G3XDV also put out reasonable signals from very restricted sites and later found that a Marconi from the same site radiated a stronger signal for the same transmitter power. As a result it has become part of UK LF collective wisdom that the Marconi is superior to a loop of the same size. The Lowfers have more years experience working under more restrictive conditions than we have. Bill, do you have some comparative data? A description of constructing transmitting loop antenna variable capacitors appeared in Radcom Feb 1994 called 'Experimental magnetic loop Antennas' by C R Reynolds, GW3JTP. The article is reproduced in the book 'Backyard Antennas'. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23803 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:23:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:23:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 13460 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:26:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:26:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18C7oy-0007Nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:25:24 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18C7oy-0007Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:25:24 +0000 Received: from host213-122-65-164.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.65.164] helo=main) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18C7ox-00077u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c28b74$3489aba0$a4417ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:50:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Silicon b-e lights up !! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, Oh yes it does.....I've seen it and in fact we used to look at silicon Planar (Fairchild TM, I think) emitter junctions for poor doping and masking flaws using that in the early 1960s. You do need a few milliamps of current and It starts off as a red or orange glow round the emitter periphery when view under about 100x met. microscope. I think it "whitens up" as you increase the current. I still have a feeling that there may be some truth in what Andy says the hot electrons from the avalanche at a few milliamps could be forced quite deep into the device and some could easily be trapped by the collector. The thing is that most of the breakdown current is carried at the surface just under the SiO2 passivation. The field does not really aid electrons going deeper to the collector. It does inject hot electrons into "traps" the oxide and reduce the gain of the transistor as well. This is a similar effect to UVEPROMs I think. Motto never let BJTs run into eb avalanche breakdown ....and that includes RF devices being driven hard. Nat Sokal of Class-E fame has written papers on that. Rik's effect ......I have seen almost negative impedance characteristics on a curve tracer. I can not remember the condition but avalanche is very like gas discharge in some ways, and there is a well known sawtooth osc you can make with a neon and and a capacitor. Some devices have very (spacially) uneven breakdown and areas flicker on and off as they get hot. At the edge of breakdown there can be very unstable "spots" round a circular emitter which light up first. "Finger" emitters are more complicated as there is the radius of curvature effect on the field as well. All good fun it brings back memories from 40 years ago.....in the Post Ofiice Research Submerged Repeater Transistor group. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9685 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2002 00:07:06 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:07:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18588 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Nov 2002 00:09:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2002 00:09:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18C7Yl-0007JH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:08:39 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.162] (helo=imo-m07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18C7Yk-0007J8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:08:38 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.6a.2915814e (4418) for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:08:30 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <6a.2915814e.2b04437d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:08:29 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: Re: Transistor riddle, VLF Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear group,

thanks to Alan for pointing out Bob Pease as the original source of the experiment. I think DL2NDO mentioned it when he told us about it a few years ago, I just didn't remember.

Yes, that's the clue to the voltage inverter: photocurrent in the c-b-junction. You really don't need a microscope to see its origin, though a small magnifier helps. Just look at the chip in the dark and turn on reverse-bias, and you will see a faint glow of orange-coloured light. It is quite pretty on a larger transistor like a 2N3055, the structured rim of the emitter zone is seamed by luminescence. - But the voltage conversion is not very efficient: 0.3V x 0.4uA output from a 2N5322 fed with -9V x -4mA (yes, PNPs can do it just as well).

For a moment I had also considered rectified zener noise, but I think polarity would be the other way round: RF rectification in a diode generates reverse, light "rectification" forward voltage. - Today I connected a scope parallel to the 2N2222 e-b-junction in pursuit of Rik's observation, and yes, there it was: Slightly above the threshold of avalanching, there were three discrete bands of instability, up to 50 mV pp. I couldn't trigger the timebase properly so it was not periodic; the display looked a bit like a train of pulses clipped between two levels, as if someone turned the avalanching on and off at random. A pair of 300 ohm headphones in place of the biasing resistor revealed it as wideband (and apparently very non-gaussian) noise.

Boys, lets get back to business ;-) ... Apropos headphones: they remind me of an experiment Geri and I did some time in 2001: We connected them to my LF antenna through an old TV line-transformer acting as a resonating inductance, tunable by the width of its airgap. Then we listened to the high-pitched beeps of the russian Alpha beacons, without any amplification or frequency conversion. Had I tried this 40 years earlier, perhaps I could have _heard_ SAQ on baseband...

73 es best wishes
de Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27831 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 21:57:14 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 21:57:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 27403 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 20:43:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 20:43:29 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18C4LK-0006qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:42:34 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18C4LK-0006qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:42:34 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1037220148!61292 Received: (qmail 29863 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 20:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-6.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 20:42:29 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:07:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FPRZJ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:11:24 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:07:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Mal, >This is what I have been saying all along about loops and power levels >around the 1W plus on LF. The only sensible antenna for transmitting on LF >is a vertical to cater for medium and higher power levels. Gee, Mal, if all of us follow this general statement of yours, you will have few new stations to contact (as you were complaining about only a month ago). All debates aside, at least the loop allows a way for a number of us to transmit on LF .......... with sites impossible on which to erect a vertical. And don't be concerned about the 100w power level, proposed in the US, over- driving a 50'x50' loop. A 12Ga wire has no problem with the 8.3A of current at 100W. BTW: The number of TX loop using Lowfers will likely outnumber the number of vertical using Lowfers (the active ones) in the US this winter! Bill A _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28777 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 20:27:27 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 20:27:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 23545 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 19:26:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 19:26:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18C38m-0006fD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:25:32 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.46] (helo=mta6-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18C38l-0006f4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:25:32 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.208.149]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113192529.KWYQ9450.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:25:29 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c28b4a$5fb16fe0$95d0fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021111102152.00a924d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:23:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... > At 21:28 10/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >I would like to know if anyone has built variable capacitors for > >transmitters or tuners. I would like to build a variable capacitor that is > >at least 100pf and can handle 40 amps of RF current. Does anyone have any > >ideas or links to some articles??? > >Thanks es 73's, > >Mike>WE0H > >http://www.we0h.us/lf.html > > Dear Mike, LF group, > > What frequency is it for? Surely not LF - at 185kHz, the voltage rating > might be a problem - about 340kV with 40A! This is what I have been saying all along about loops and power levels around the 1W plus on LF. The only sensible antenna for transmitting on LF is a vertical to cater for medium and higher power levels. Loops work for receiving with the directional limitation but then a few feet of wire lying on the ground works just as well !! de G3KEV > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19754 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 18:51:14 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 18:51:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 5404 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 15:53:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 15:53:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bznc-0006AA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:51:28 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.42] (helo=mta2-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bznc-0006A1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:51:28 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.96.4]) by mta2-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113155127.KVAQ3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:51:27 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:53:01 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <01C28B21.86353210.g4jnt@thersgb.net> In-reply-to: <01C28B21.86353210.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021113155127.KVAQ3351.mta2-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: RE: Tuesday's riddle (part 2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Wednesday 13 November 2002 14:32, you wrote: > I didn't get anything like that, but the negative voltage generator has a > pronounced threshold as the device starts to avalanche. > I wonder if you are getting an effect caused by the capacitive loading of > the scope probe coupled with, perhaps, a negative resistance region over > the few mV close to avalanche start. Again a guess. Steve's memory of > Bob Pease's explanation is a bit unexpected, I wouldn't have thought a > reverse biassed junction would generate light. After all, LEDs are forward > biassed in operation. As best I recall the article, the light is visible with a microscope Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27289 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 14:33:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 14:33:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 3874 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 14:34:55 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 14:34:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Byaq-0005n2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:34:12 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Byaq-0005mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:34:12 +0000 Received: from [212.1.148.249] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18ByTv-0003qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:27:03 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <01C28B21.86353210.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:32:38 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: RE: Tuesday's riddle (part 2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,X_PRIORITY_HIGHversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I didn't get anything like that, but the negative voltage generator has a pronounced threshold as the device starts to avalanche. I wonder if you are getting an effect caused by the capacitive loading of the scope probe coupled with, perhaps, a negative resistance region over the few mV close to avalanche start. Again a guess. Steve's memory of Bob Pease's explanation is a bit unexpected, I wouldn't have thought a reverse biassed junction would generate light. After all, LEDs are forward biassed in operation. Another explanation that someone came up with is that the avalanche generates noise (it certainly does, noise diodes are just RF diodes with reverse breakdown) and that this noise is then being rectified in the C-B junction to give the -ve voltage. I still wonder if it could be due to energetic electrons hitting the base junction and passing though the thin layer, then building up a charge on the reverse biassed C-B junction. Or perhaps a combination of all three ! Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe [SMTP:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] Sent: 2002/11/13 12:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle (part 2) Hello Marcus, very interesting. I did the experiment with a BC547c and as Andy I got a negative voltage. While playing with it I reduced the voltage to +/- 5V and saw an even more interesting effect, over a range of a few 10mV I got a nice sawtooth signal. I wonder if someone can reproduce it ... 73, Rik ON7YD At 14:58 11/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hi group, > >this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago: > >You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k >resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the >base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the >voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard... > >Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended >up opening the poor transistor's case. > >Have fun >Markus, DF6NM << File: ATT00000.htm >> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31776 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 14:28:11 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 14:28:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27014 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 14:30:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 14:30:28 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ByVd-0005kM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:28:49 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ByVd-0005kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:28:49 +0000 Received: from host213-122-150-103.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.150.103] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18ByVc-0004hq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:28:48 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c28b20$d4b45e80$67967ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 14:27:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Spontaflex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Kevin, I think Jim has beaten me to the draw......why are so many people afraid of inductors these days?? This strange idea preceded the digital revolution that everything active ( using "non-ideal" op-amps) was "good". Passive filters take a lot of beating (they can be beaten in some areas with a lot of technology) for simpicity. This is particularly when the resistor component like inductors are made readily available from Toko. Whilst all filter design programs will yield "silly" inductor values it is possible to do what we always used to in amateur design....pick the nearest "prefered" value from the Toko list. These are not as good as home wound pot cores that Jim suggests but a lot less trouble. After selecting a "nearest" value use an AC analysis computer program to check that the response is still reasonable ( expensive software ?? ....there is a free one on my web site!) and tweak the caps a little if necessary. As to the effects of DCF39 ....(and it may be being useful as a BFO in that circuit !!) it is possible at the LF frequencies to build a bridged-T notch filter that will remove DCF39 with little loss in the 136 band. You will need a high Q inductor as its is only 1030Hz above the band , so a Q of about 130 will still leave you with 3dB loss at the top of the band. It should be possible to make a circuit with a Q or 500 to 600, which should make the in-band loss almost negligible. There is even an example in the AC analysis ZIP download (I think) using a 50uH inductor. The only difference might be it is easier to centre-tap the coil that use a capacitor "tap" (which was easier in the program) It good to see "Radio Destructor" articles surfacing again, even if the reason for them was that in 1964 a full spec transistor cost about 10% of the average weekly wage, valves were a lot cheaper. Happy constructing Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17724 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 12:31:10 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 12:31:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 15461 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 12:30:39 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 12:30:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BweS-0005N9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:29:48 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BweS-0005N0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:29:48 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (pc-10-33-165-177.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gADCTHhh076858 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:29:17 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021113122956.02bb0e00@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 13:35:23 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <19c.bc77907.2b016601@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle (part 2) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Marcus,

very  interesting.
I did the experiment with a BC547c and as Andy I got a negative voltage.
While playing with it I reduced the voltage to +/- 5V and saw an even more interesting effect, over a range of a few 10mV I got a nice sawtooth signal. I wonder if someone can reproduce it ...

73, Rik  ON7YD

At 14:58 11/11/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Hi group,

this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago:

You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard...

Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended up opening the poor transistor's case.

Have fun
Markus, DF6NM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21728 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 11:53:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 11:53:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 15403 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 11:51:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 11:51:47 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bw2I-0005Fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:50:22 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bw2H-0005Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:50:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18BvfK-00008g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:26:38 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BvfH-0007Hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:26:35 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021113110754.00a927f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:26:34 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <003401c28afd$99622420$f9997ad5@laptop> References: <001901c28af1$aa0faa60$9d740450@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: LF: Re: Audio filters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Kevin, LF group, At 10:11 13/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I'm currently trying to work out a way of getting more audio filtering >into my latest 136kHz regenerative receiver without increasing the number of >active devices The small ferrite cored inductors that are fairly readily available can be used to make passive bandpass filters of several hundred Hz BW quite easily. If you don't mind winding some pot cores, and have some test equipment (audio generator & voltmeter), passive filters with bandwidth down to 50Hz are not too difficult. With limited dynamic range, you might be better to go for a passive preselector, which can also be made with several 100Hz bandwidth, if you can find suitable pot cores. It is certainly possible to achieve adequate sensitivity with a small number of active devices - the electromechanical SAQ receiver I made a while back had none at all of course. Another project along these lines I once tried was a direct conversion RX for 80m, which was basically a diode mixer impedance matched to an antenna a pair of headphones, and a VFO. A signal of 2uV was audible with no gain at all; with a single transistor audio stage, you could hear down to the band noise level. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12790 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 11:08:18 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 11:08:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 17711 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 11:07:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 11:07:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BvLY-00056J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:06:12 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BvLY-00056A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:06:12 +0000 Received: (qmail 16259 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 11:05:28 -0000 Received: from modem-204-56-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.56.204) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 11:05:28 -0000 Message-ID: <003201c28b04$22331ba0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c28af1$aa0faa60$9d740450@oemcomputer> <003401c28afd$99622420$f9997ad5@laptop> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:01:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Spontaflex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Kevin Ravenhill wrote: > .... it hears things on 136kHz, which is what matters, ... What an intriguing circuit - I read up on the "Spontaflex" on this web site: http://www.spontaflex.freeserve.co.uk/autoflex/autoflexpage1.jpg I had not heard of it before. I wonder how you demodulate CW signals - do you allow the circuit to oscillate as you would do with a conventional regenerative circuit ? The basic Spontaflex seems to be an AM receiver. 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21465 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 10:47:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 10:47:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 16446 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 10:46:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 10:46:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bv1j-00050o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:43 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.41] (helo=mta1-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bv1i-00050f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:42 +0000 Received: from there ([217.137.94.7]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113104542.WXRG277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@there> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:45:42 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:47:15 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <01C28AF8.5C4BCFF0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> In-reply-to: <01C28AF8.5C4BCFF0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021113104542.WXRG277.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@there> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: FW: Re: Etiquette: Off-subject Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,OUTLOOK_FW_MSG,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Wednesday 13 November 2002 09:37, you wrote: > No, where is his article ? I remember Bob Pease and many of his practical > engineering tips made fascinating reading, but don't read EDN now. Is he a > Ham, or just an analogue person ? As far as I know, he's not licenced. I inferred from someone else's post that it was there to be found - Bob's column was where I first saw the question posed. If you do a search on 'Bob Pease' one of the results is the EDN archive of his column, but there's no clue as to which article holds the relevant bit. It's all worth reading, lots of thoughtful electronics and engineering. I particularly liked the piece on 'Muntzing'. In an hour or two, visit www.qsl.net/g8gsq/puzzleanswer.htm if you want my recollection of Bob's explanation. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17391 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 10:17:48 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 10:17:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 9896 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 10:17:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 10:17:12 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BuYg-0004s2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:15:42 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BuYg-0004rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:15:42 +0000 Received: from host213-122-153-249.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.153.249] helo=laptop) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18BuYd-0000qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:15:40 +0000 Message-ID: <003401c28afd$99622420$f9997ad5@laptop> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: "LF Group" References: <001901c28af1$aa0faa60$9d740450@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:11:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Puzzles and DX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.2 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Mike Dennison wrote: > It did, however, surprise me that in a weekend that saw more 136kHz contacts > at 1500km+ than ever before, and many 'firsts' and personal bests (thanks to > the excellent Russian expedition), together with more 73kHz stations than > ever before being copied in the USA, the reflector was dominated by academic > puzzles. > I guess everyone was off working the DX and too busy to post to the reflector! I don't have a problem with this kind of thing either, as it's good for exercising the grey matter - as long as it doesn't result in the "true LF posts" (for want of a better term) being engulfed to an extent that those who aren't interested in the puzzles find it difficult to extract the stuff they want from a long list of emails. If everyone uses "puzzle" in the subject line then the disinterested could set up a mail rule to delete them accordingly. Talking of mental exercise, I'm a sucker for punishment in more ways than one: I'm currently trying to work out a way of getting more audio filtering into my latest 136kHz regenerative receiver without increasing the number of active devices (3 x BC550C transistors + 1 x OA91). This receiver is based on a reflex architecture ("Spontaflex" circuit by Sir Douglas Hall) and appeals to my "KISS" instincts. It has surprising sensitivity (<0.1uV CW signal is easily readable in the absence of QRM/N) and very low supply current (300uA) - although at these currents we won't mention dynamic range.... it hears things on 136kHz, which is what matters, although a directional loop antenna is probably "de rigeur" to null out DCF39. I think the only answer is going to be to add another BC550C configured as a Sallen-Key bandpass filter (darn - another active device). Could configure the audio output device as such, I suppose, but this would probably result in too much loss of gain. Ideas invited (but please don't suggest I go out and buy an AR7030 or whatever, or add a DSP filter on the end - that would be missing the point!) 73, Kevin G1HDQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21094 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:54:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:54:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 16681 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:54:07 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:54:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BuCl-0004lO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:53:03 +0000 Received: from [213.218.77.53] (helo=cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BuCk-0004lF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:53:02 +0000 Received: from [62.21.167.91] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18BuCb-0001sV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021113101903.00a78930@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:55:06 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" In-reply-to: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp .telenor.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040802070505010706090306" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,IN_REP_TO,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040802070505010706090306 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jan_Martin and All,

You could use your loop aerial, together with a selective level meter, for field strength measurement on strong signals by using the coupling loop on its own with the tuned loop open circuit. The voltage induced in a loop is given by Terman , first edition, on page 813:
Loop.jpg
in which:
epsilon = field strength, volts per meter
N = number of turns in loop
A = area of loop, square meters
lambda = wave length, meters
phi = angle with respect to loop

Cos phi = 1 when loop is turned for maximum signal.

At the low frequency concerned I don't expect that signal pick up from the electric field by the unscreened loop will disturb the measurement.
To check this you could turn the loop 180 degrees. This reverses the polarity of the magnetically induced voltage.
If this produces a different reading then you could take the average of the two readings.

In the tuned loop, when open circuit, no current should flow that could affect the magnetic field. In practice the loop is not completely open circuit because of the distributed capacitance between the turns. But hopefully this effect is not too disturbing. You could rig a duplicate loop without the tuned winding to check this.

I use a square untuned single turn loop of 1 square meter. It is made of coax with the outer shield open at the point opposite the take off point. On DCF39 (500km distant) it produces a voltage of 4.9 microvolt, easily measured by the SPM-12. The impedance of the loop is so low that it makes no difference whether the 75 ohm loading resistor at the input of the SPM-12 is switched on or off.

I expect that at your location you will obtain a suitable reading as well.  Do it during daytime, because after dark the sky wave may wreck the measurement.
Once you know the FS of DCF39 you could use that to calibrate your other aerials. 

73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
 
At 12:16 12-11-02 +0100, you wrote:
Hi

still experimenting with frame antenna for 136kHz. The attached drawing (20kB)
shows almost how it would have been made today, somewhat different from
the actual antenna.

Experienced that it was no need for amplifier for a loop for 80m reception
(used to avoid electrical noise from the open power lines),
and now also experienced that an amplifier did not improve reception for my
136kHz aerial,
the coupling has 1/100 area of the whole frame, seems to work for 50 ohm,
the tuning range seems to be somewhat too small, need somewhat increased
capacitance in cold weather, but it is low enough for rain.

The S/N ratio is almost the same with the coupling loop as for high impedance
amplifier connected to the end of capacitance.

The aerial has been tested in +10°C....-2°C

Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU)

Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop.

73

Jan_Martin
LA8AK@online.no (WW.Loc: JO38XC)
N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178)
http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/
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GBxkt6ZRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFRzQrOgRzIAHV/kkZDlWDDlSDjI5HQj IOQSKkoAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoqOOCGF5niijR5n3ysqgF22hct6naqjJ7ADtU lABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUVHHCsTzOpkJlfe26RmAO0L8oJwowo4GBnJ6kkgElFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUARwQrbW8UCGQpGgR TJIzsQBjlmJLH3JJPepKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAqOaNpUCpNJC Q6tuQKSQGBK/MCMEDB74JwQcESUUAFFFFABRXJ+BvEupeIk1qPUbe0V9K1ObTvPtyyido25b y2zsG0p/G2Tu6cZ6ygAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAP/Z --------------040802070505010706090306-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27892 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:40:52 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:40:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 1660 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:40:22 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:40:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Btzb-0004fK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:39:27 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Btza-0004fB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:39:26 +0000 Received: from [212.1.155.89] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18Btsg-0007SV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:32:19 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:38:02 -0000 Message-ID: <01C28AF8.5C4BCFF0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:37:56 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: FW: Re: Etiquette: Off-subject Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=OUTLOOK_FW_MSG,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group No, where is his article ? I remember Bob Pease and many of his practical engineering tips made fascinating reading, but don't read EDN now. Is he a Ham, or just an analogue person ? >This one is a wizard party trick. Did you look up Bob Pease's explanation. >Never guess in a zillion years. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 503 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:19:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:19:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 12427 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 09:21:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 09:21:20 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Btgp-0004XN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:20:03 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.12] (helo=smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Btgo-0004XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:20:02 +0000 Received: from tnt-13-120.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.22.120] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18Btgl-000Pv5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:19:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c28af5$dc863a00$781686d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:30:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Puzzles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John said >Fine! I personally don't mind as I find them interesting - the question is do the majority of the reflector users mind the scope of the reflector to broaden to include such technical intrigues? I must admit that it is better than spam and helps to keep the brain going between M-Class flares and other discussions more relevant to LF.... I'm happy to change the unwritten scope for the reflector if we don't otherwise have any serious dissenters, so (brief) comments please either way ... I find them interesting and happy to see them as long as it is not overdone. Much better than spam and infinitely better that the slanging that used to be a feature of this reflector. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web PS The original last line of Ode to G3JKV by boffin scans better. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30019 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 08:48:54 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:48:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 20781 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 08:49:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:49:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BtDF-0004Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:49:29 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.45] (helo=mta05-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BtDE-0004NS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:49:28 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021113084926.FCYU26478.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:49:26 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c28af1$aa0faa60$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:50:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Puzzles and DX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I must say it had not occurred to me that the puzzles were off topic, as they seemed to be brain stretching exercises for the technically minded. They don't interest me personally and they are the only messages I don't archive here (which probably means my sub-conscious thought they were off topic!). It did, however, surprise me that in a weekend that saw more 136kHz contacts at 1500km+ than ever before, and many 'firsts' and personal bests (thanks to the excellent Russian expedition), together with more 73kHz stations than ever before being copied in the USA, the reflector was dominated by academic puzzles. I would prefer to see clever chaps doing mental exercises than e-mails complaining about things, so I say "live and let live". Andy himself once commented in relation to activity reports that, provided a message is clearly labelled in the subject line, it is easy to delete what you don't want to read. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2047 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 08:47:11 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:47:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 20372 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 08:49:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:49:29 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BtCa-0004Mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:48:48 +0000 Received: from [131.115.230.132] (helo=tms001bb.han.telia.se) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BtCZ-0004Mm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:48:48 +0000 Received: from tms011mb.han.telia.se ([131.115.230.152]) by tms001bb.han.telia.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:48:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:48:46 +0100 Message-ID: <51C6B2EFA37ED242B3F0C131C10B1082015CFB5C@TMS011MB.tcad.telia.se> Thread-Topic: Puzzles Thread-Index: AcKK8XqiQZeumc9BQdan2WNyAU4MqA== From: Karl-Arne.A.Markstrom@telia.se To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2002 08:48:47.0261 (UTC) FILETIME=[7AD954D0:01C28AF1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Puzzles X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello all, I for sure have no objections against the posting of "puzzles" on the reflector. The latest ones concerned DC circuit-theory and electrostatic problems, which, in my opinion at least, well qualify them for posting on the LF list... :-) 73/ Karl-Arne SM0AOM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30022 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 08:37:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:37:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26587 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 08:36:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 08:36:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bt02-0004I9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:35:50 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bt01-0004I0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:35:49 +0000 Received: from host213-122-174-6.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.174.6] helo=presario-1920) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Bt00-0007VS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:35:49 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 08:40:05 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Subject: LF: RE: RE: RE: Puzzles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.1 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group The reflector followed a manual e-mail, "snail" mail and packet exchange that I operated, between those interested in experimenting on 73kHz. That is before 136kHz was authorised here in the UK. As such it didn't have any strict rules, except that it would be related to LF. Given the broad user base that the reflector now has I'm quite prepared to upload a general AUP for guidance to all on the purpose, scope and etiquette - the question is whether we broaden the scope of the reflector as I proposed, or leave it less well defined, but "weild a gavel" if off-topic issues become too intrusive, as Steve Thompson suggested. This in effect is what I did earlier this week, but it did gather some backlash. 73 John, G3WKL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Ashlock,William > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 04:11 > To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' > Subject: LF: RE: RE: Puzzles > > > > > Hi Gary, > > > I also find the puzzles interesting but I this is not what the LF > reflector is meant to be used for. > > I'm not sure what the LF reflector is meant to be used for. Are there are > some rules that I have failed to see posted? > > > The future problem could be that in allowing this type of mail maybe > other types of mail may be sent > > therefore detracting from the whole purpose of the LF reflector. > > What is the purpose of the LF reflector? Maybe if there is no set of rules > we could jointly agree on a set? > > Bill Ashlock > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet > Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further > information visit http://www.worldcom.com > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31311 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 05:12:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 05:12:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 26978 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Nov 2002 04:12:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 04:12:08 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Borz-0003VV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:11:15 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Borz-0003VM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:11:15 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1037160670!3515 Received: (qmail 30221 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 04:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 04:11:10 -0000 Received: from ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:11:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3FPKSJ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:14:36 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:11:08 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:11:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: RE: RE: Puzzles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.4 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Gary, > I also find the puzzles interesting but I this is not what the LF reflector is meant to be used for. I'm not sure what the LF reflector is meant to be used for. Are there are some rules that I have failed to see posted? > The future problem could be that in allowing this type of mail maybe other types of mail may be sent > therefore detracting from the whole purpose of the LF reflector. What is the purpose of the LF reflector? Maybe if there is no set of rules we could jointly agree on a set? Bill Ashlock _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5146 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 04:30:15 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 04:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 20671 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2002 04:29:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2002 04:29:01 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bp8d-0003ZT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:28:27 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.201] (helo=mail2.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bp8d-0003ZK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:28:27 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d41.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.41]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAD4SPe25159 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:28:25 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:29:30 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Subject: LF: RE: RE: RE: Puzzles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group How about we all share our LF radio electronics experiences on the reflector and be happy??? Some things will be right to the point and other things will be slightly off topic, but the point is, we are not talking about cars and motorcycles are we??? It is radio electronics and the other things that have to do with radio electronics. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Ashlock,William Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:11 PM To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Subject: LF: RE: RE: Puzzles Hi Gary, > I also find the puzzles interesting but I this is not what the LF reflector is meant to be used for. I'm not sure what the LF reflector is meant to be used for. Are there are some rules that I have failed to see posted? > The future problem could be that in allowing this type of mail maybe other types of mail may be sent > therefore detracting from the whole purpose of the LF reflector. What is the purpose of the LF reflector? Maybe if there is no set of rules we could jointly agree on a set? Bill Ashlock _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29758 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 23:56:37 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 23:56:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 15177 invoked by uid 10001); 12 Nov 2002 22:55:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 22:55:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bjvv-0002XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:54:59 +0000 Received: from [207.69.200.157] (helo=tisch.mail.mindspring.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bjvv-0002X5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:54:59 +0000 Received: from user-2ivemv8.dsl.mindspring.com ([165.247.91.232] helo=Larsen.mindspring.com) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Bjvn-000499-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:54:52 -0500 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20021112173802.026003d0@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: fgentges@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:50:30 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frank_Gentges_K=D8BRA?= In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021112133603.00a927d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <001201c28a43$90d64a80$0504210a@c.scope> <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group LF Group, I think Jim has it pretty much right. I would add the point that the ground and shielding will not improve the signal strength much if at all. What it can do is improve the depth of the rejection off the nulls off of each end. The ability to turn and tilt the loop receiving antenna to reject a noise can be useful and may be the most important property of a receiving loop over an e-field probe. The depth of that null can become important. This aspect can be tested by observing the amount of rejection of a strong station comparing the strongest level and weakest level. The null point will become sharp and require fine adjustments in both azimuth and tilt to achieve the deepest null. A poorly shielded and balanced loop will have shallow nulls. I expect at least 60 dB nulls. Frank K0BRA At 02:24 PM 11/12/02 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Jan-Martin, LF Group, > >At 12:03 12/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >>Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) > >At your distance, the field strength of DCF39 should be roughly +60 dBuV/m >- so if under quiet band conditions the band noise is around 0dBuV/m in a >bandwidth of a few hundred Hz, the receiver will have to have a noise >level below about -135 or -140dBu to achieve optimum sensitivity. So you >might need a preamp! > >>Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. > > >I have used several loops here for LF reception, and have never found any >advantage in grounding the loop centre tap, allthough in theory it ought >to improve rejection of E-field signals. That might just be because of the >nature of the QRM at my location, though. I have to say I am skeptical >about the idea of E-field rejection being an important benefit in reducing >noise pick up at LF. In fact, I find a small, screened, LF loop to be >quite a good mains cable detector. The big advantage of a small loop RX >antenna over TX type antennas is that is easy to move the loop around >until you find a position where the noise level is low - but you can do >the same thing with a whip antenna. The other benefit of the loop is the >directional nulls, of course. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > Frank Gentges KØBRA LF web site at From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19032 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 23:50:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 23:50:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 15096 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 23:49:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 23:49:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BkmC-0002gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:49:00 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.204] (helo=mail5.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BkmA-0002gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:48:59 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d64.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.64]) by mail5.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gACNljI36070 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:47:45 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:49:57 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Subject: LF: RE: Puzzles Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,HTML_70_90,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_COLOR_NAME,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_LINK, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

There fine here.

 

Mike>WE0H

http://www.we0h.us/lf.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of John W Gould
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:02 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Puzzles

 

Fine!  I personally don't mind as I find them interesting - the question is do the majority of the reflector users mind the scope of the reflector to broaden to include such technical intrigues?  I must admit that it is better than spam and helps to keep the brain going between M-Class flares and other discussions more relevant to LF.... I'm happy to change the unwritten scope for the reflector if we don't otherwise have any serious dissenters, so (brief) comments please either way ...

 

73 John, G3WKL 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Andy talbot
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 18:34
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: ME Work
Subject: LF: Re: Tuesday's riddle

Right, done it.   Now that's very interesting !!!!!!

 

Exactly as you specified, even down to the same 2N2222 device. The B-E junction breaks down at 7.56V,   ie. Vbe = (minus) -7.56V  With a DVM, 10M input resistance, Vcb = (plus) +0.35V   almost as if it is acting as a voltage inverter, no wonder you ripped the can apart.  That shouldn't be, BUT...

 

The tunnelling (or whatever the current carriers do in a zener) are probably wizzing across the B-E junction and hitting the C-B junction, then overshooting and slowing down or something, so generating a voltage.  Just inspired guessing.  Any solid state physicists out there ?....   

 

How can anyone want puzles like this removed from the reflector John ?

 

Andy  G4JNT

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:58 PM

Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle

 

Hi group,

this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago:

You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard...

Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended up opening the poor transistor's case.

Have fun
Markus, DF6NM

 

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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16448 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 22:57:15 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 22:57:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 17516 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 22:56:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 22:56:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BjxR-0002Yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:56:33 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.46] (helo=mta6-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BjxR-0002YT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:56:33 +0000 Received: from jackie ([217.137.114.6]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021112225632.RIYH9450.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@jackie> for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:56:32 +0000 Message-ID: <00a801c28a9e$b6db81e0$067289d9@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:56:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Puzzles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: John W Gould To: Sent: 12 November 2002 19:02 Subject: LF: Puzzles > Fine! I personally don't mind as I find them interesting - the question is > do the majority of the reflector users mind the scope of the reflector to > broaden to include such technical intrigues? I must admit that it is better > than spam and helps to keep the brain going between M-Class flares and other > discussions more relevant to LF.... I'm happy to change the unwritten scope > for the reflector if we don't otherwise have any serious dissenters, so > (brief) comments please either way ... > > 73 John, G3WKL Why not see if it becomes a problem and wield a gavel if necessary? I subscribe to a number of discussion roups, and this one stands out for the quality of contributions I see. Anything that makes me think, or teaches (or reminds me) of technical issues is of interest. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32392 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 21:37:09 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:37:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 1503 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 21:35:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:35:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bigr-0002Na-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:35:21 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bigq-0002NR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:35:21 +0000 Received: from host213-122-3-254.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.3.254] helo=main) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18Bigl-0002R3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c28a93$46645000$fe037ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:34:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re Tuesday puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Andy ,you are obviously not of follower of the much revered (amongst analogue guys anyway) Bob Pease, who wrote in EDN (...or was it Electronic Design.) I must get round to buying his books, if Amazon are not out of stock by now. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8328 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 21:24:39 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:24:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 29751 invoked by uid 10001); 12 Nov 2002 21:26:56 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:26:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BiY2-0002KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:26:14 +0000 Received: from [213.40.2.14] (helo=gourd.sout.netline.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BiY1-0002KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:26:13 +0000 Received: from [213.40.210.146] (helo=tcs1) by gourd.sout.netline.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.04) id 18BiXV-0005dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:25:42 +0000 From: "G4WGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:25:43 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: Subject: LF: RE: Puzzles Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0tests=HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
 
I also find the puzzles interesting but I this is not what the LF reflector is meant to be used for.
 
The future problem could be that in allowing this type of mail maybe other types of mail may be sent therefore detracting from the whole purpose of the LF reflector.
 
73
Gary       G4WGT.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of John W Gould
Sent: 12 November 2002 19:02
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Puzzles

Fine!  I personally don't mind as I find them interesting - the question is do the majority of the reflector users mind the scope of the reflector to broaden to include such technical intrigues?  I must admit that it is better than spam and helps to keep the brain going between M-Class flares and other discussions more relevant to LF.... I'm happy to change the unwritten scope for the reflector if we don't otherwise have any serious dissenters, so (brief) comments please either way ...
 
73 John, G3WKL 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3934 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 21:06:25 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:06:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13404 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 21:07:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 21:07:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BiFK-0002GW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:06:54 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.85] (helo=anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BiFK-0002GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:06:54 +0000 Received: from jalowe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.173.18]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 18BiFJ-0002UV-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:06:09 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "J. Alan Lowe" References: <200211121527_MC3-1-1A37-E70F@compuserve.com> In-reply-to: <200211121527_MC3-1-1A37-E70F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Subject: Re: LF: Ode to G3JKV X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group In message <200211121527_MC3-1-1A37-E70F@compuserve.com>, boffin1 writes >I regret that I doubled the R >-The worst crime committed so far, >But, at eighty my finger, >On the keyboard may linger >And double the true singulaarr. > > May I suggest an extra syllable for the last line, to read: "And thereby double the singulaarr" Alan, G3XZX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11208 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 20:29:34 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 20:29:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 65 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 20:30:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 20:30:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bhdy-00026t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:28:18 +0000 Received: from [149.174.40.8] (helo=siaag1af.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bhdy-00026k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:28:18 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.18) id PAA20692 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:27:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:27:20 -0500 From: "boffin1" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200211121527_MC3-1-1A37-E70F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Subject: LF: Ode to G3JKV Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I regret that I doubled the R -The worst crime committed so far, But, at eighty my finger, On the keyboard may linger And double the true singulaarr. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17740 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 19:18:53 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 19:18:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 19930 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 18:18:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:18:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BfbL-0001jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:27 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BfbL-0001jW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:27 +0000 Received: from [212.1.149.245] (helo=RSGB613192) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18BfUV-0000tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:10:23 +0000 Message-ID: <006201c28a77$c6f0b400$045bfea9@RSGB613192> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:16:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Etiquette: Off-subject Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Has anyone complained ? The first one certainly created enough interest, even led to a few ideas for loop resonating. >You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the Instinct says the reverse biassed B-E junction is verging on breakdown - zener action. The B-C junction should have very low reverse leakage. So we should be looking at perhaps a very slight reading on a DVM with 10 Meg input R or higher, nothing on an ancient analogue meter. Just off to try it, bet I'll be surprised............ Andy G4JNT ----- Original Message ----- From: John W Gould To: Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: LF: Etiquette: Off-subject > Whilst I don't like to intervene, for the sake of those who don't enjoy > electronic puzzles could we bring this recent set of threads to a close when > the latest puzzle has extracted suitable comment? Thence restrict the > puzzles on the reflector to those that relate directly to LF .... > > 73 > > John, G3WKL > > ps. Well done to John, Laurie and Peter on the 73kHz T/A > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15435 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 18:56:34 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:56:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 13985 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 18:58:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:58:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BgEW-0001sc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:57:56 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BgEW-0001sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:57:56 +0000 Received: from host213-122-188-143.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.188.143] helo=presario-1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18BgET-0003Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:57:53 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 19:02:07 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000f01c28a7a$436f3540$045bfea9@RSGB613192> Subject: LF: Puzzles Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_LINK, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Fine!  I personally don't mind as I find them interesting - the question is do the majority of the reflector users mind the scope of the reflector to broaden to include such technical intrigues?  I must admit that it is better than spam and helps to keep the brain going between M-Class flares and other discussions more relevant to LF.... I'm happy to change the unwritten scope for the reflector if we don't otherwise have any serious dissenters, so (brief) comments please either way ...
 
73 John, G3WKL 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Andy talbot
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 18:34
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Cc: ME Work
Subject: LF: Re: Tuesday's riddle

Right, done it.   Now that's very interesting !!!!!!
 
Exactly as you specified, even down to the same 2N2222 device. The B-E junction breaks down at 7.56V,   ie. Vbe = (minus) -7.56V  With a DVM, 10M input resistance, Vcb = (plus) +0.35V   almost as if it is acting as a voltage inverter, no wonder you ripped the can apart.  That shouldn't be, BUT...
 
The tunnelling (or whatever the current carriers do in a zener) are probably wizzing across the B-E junction and hitting the C-B junction, then overshooting and slowing down or something, so generating a voltage.  Just inspired guessing.  Any solid state physicists out there ?....   
 
How can anyone want puzles like this removed from the reflector John ?
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle

Hi group,

this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago:

You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard...

Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended up opening the poor transistor's case.

Have fun
Markus, DF6NM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12729 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 18:37:23 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:37:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 2701 invoked by uid 10001); 12 Nov 2002 18:36:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 18:36:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bfsa-0001ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:35:16 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BfsZ-0001np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:35:15 +0000 Received: from [212.1.155.7] (helo=RSGB613192) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18Bfli-0008HG-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:28:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c28a7a$436f3540$045bfea9@RSGB613192> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "ME Work" References: <19c.bc77907.2b016601@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:34:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Tuesday's riddle Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,SUPERLONG_LINE, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Right, done it.   Now that's very interesting !!!!!!
 
Exactly as you specified, even down to the same 2N2222 device. The B-E junction breaks down at 7.56V,   ie. Vbe = (minus) -7.56V  With a DVM, 10M input resistance, Vcb = (plus) +0.35V   almost as if it is acting as a voltage inverter, no wonder you ripped the can apart.  That shouldn't be, BUT...
 
The tunnelling (or whatever the current carriers do in a zener) are probably wizzing across the B-E junction and hitting the C-B junction, then overshooting and slowing down or something, so generating a voltage.  Just inspired guessing.  Any solid state physicists out there ?....   
 
How can anyone want puzles like this removed from the reflector John ?
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle

Hi group,

this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago:

You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard...

Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended up opening the poor transistor's case.

Have fun
Markus, DF6NM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6731 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 17:19:48 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 17:19:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 28931 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 17:19:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 17:19:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BefX-0001Ye-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:17:43 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BefW-0001Xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:17:42 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:11 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:01 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:01 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:17:00 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F87@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Thread-Index: AcKKYgYggyenvdWMTdKBZPw9gTgbYgADNLZw From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2002 17:17:00.0987 (UTC) FILETIME=[501CE8B0:01C28A6F] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: SV: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group The centertap for varicap reference is seen connected to coax cable ground, so it does work but I am not certain if it is a point to use actual ground for the frame, it is grounded in the shack via the RG59 cable, and this is put some times through a high-µ ferrit core, so AC-wise it is not much ground, but DC-wise is OK (not sure if anything in the shack is ground) 73 Jan-Martin -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Johan Bodin [mailto:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] Sendt: 12. november 2002 16:30 Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Emne: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... LA8AK wrote: > Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. There is no hi-z amplifier on the tuned loop that can suffer from common mode hum but you still need a low impedance DC path to GND for the varicap bias, otherwise the ever-present 50Hz hum would wobble the tuning with disastrous results. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16199 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 15:33:29 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 15:33:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 28260 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 15:32:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 15:32:57 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bd1Q-0001Fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:32:12 +0000 Received: from [130.244.199.132] (helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bd1Q-0001FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:32:12 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.9]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20021112153210.KOHL19257.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:32:10 +0100 Message-ID: <005101c28a60$cc9b0480$672665d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:30:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group LA8AK wrote: > Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. There is no hi-z amplifier on the tuned loop that can suffer from common mode hum but you still need a low impedance DC path to GND for the varicap bias, otherwise the ever-present 50Hz hum would wobble the tuning with disastrous results. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31027 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 15:22:09 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 15:22:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7526 invoked by uid 10001); 12 Nov 2002 15:21:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 15:21:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Bcpy-0001Bn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:20:22 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bcpx-0001BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 15:20:21 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:42 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:32 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:32 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:19:32 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF59C@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Thread-Index: AcKKWEKTyqpEviABQLSzulP5opwMmQABPmkw From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2002 15:19:32.0678 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6FE4E60:01C28A5E] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: SV: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group James, so I have some clue to try the formulas in Electronics World article 8/2002...., and tnx fer your thoughts about screening and grounding. You don't need a complete screen, a wire screen should work. Believe a french named 'Rouse' made some work on this. But, with 80Hz bandwidth (Siemens D2006 Level meter) or using my FT-902 (500kHz BW) with 74HC4066 converter the background noise peaks considerably on the S-meter when antenna is tuned to resonnance. The antenna-tuning is pretty sharp and you'll note when it is on the side of resonnance. So I really doubt that a pre-amplifier could improve as long as the background noise level is so high, and I live in a suburban area, don't believe it is so much man made noise there. Discovered that when Siemens D2006 was modified, I would have been able to use it for CW reception on 17.2kHz for SAQ using 80Hz BW filter. The noise level would have been improved by 30dB instead of using 3.1kHz bandwidth, but it is a lot of noise from different local sources down there, particularly around 18kHz I used an active antenna with 1m rod and the signal to noise was 6dB, inspite that the signal was 1mV! hi 73 Jan-Martin LA8AK -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: James Moritz [mailto:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] Sendt: 12. november 2002 15:24 Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Emne: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Dear Jan-Martin, LF Group, At 12:03 12/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) At your distance, the field strength of DCF39 should be roughly +60 dBuV/m - so if under quiet band conditions the band noise is around 0dBuV/m in a bandwidth of a few hundred Hz, the receiver will have to have a noise level below about -135 or -140dBu to achieve optimum sensitivity. So you might need a preamp! >Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. I have used several loops here for LF reception, and have never found any advantage in grounding the loop centre tap, allthough in theory it ought to improve rejection of E-field signals. That might just be because of the nature of the QRM at my location, though. I have to say I am skeptical about the idea of E-field rejection being an important benefit in reducing noise pick up at LF. In fact, I find a small, screened, LF loop to be quite a good mains cable detector. The big advantage of a small loop RX antenna over TX type antennas is that is easy to move the loop around until you find a position where the noise level is low - but you can do the same thing with a whip antenna. The other benefit of the loop is the directional nulls, of course. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12944 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 14:26:37 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 14:26:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 4773 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 14:26:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 14:26:07 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BbyN-00012C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:24:59 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BbyN-000123-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:24:59 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18Bbxs-0003gn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:24:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18Bbxh-0005FC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:24:17 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021112133603.00a927d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:24:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <001201c28a43$90d64a80$0504210a@c.scope> References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Jan-Martin, LF Group, At 12:03 12/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) At your distance, the field strength of DCF39 should be roughly +60 dBuV/m - so if under quiet band conditions the band noise is around 0dBuV/m in a bandwidth of a few hundred Hz, the receiver will have to have a noise level below about -135 or -140dBu to achieve optimum sensitivity. So you might need a preamp! >Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. I have used several loops here for LF reception, and have never found any advantage in grounding the loop centre tap, allthough in theory it ought to improve rejection of E-field signals. That might just be because of the nature of the QRM at my location, though. I have to say I am skeptical about the idea of E-field rejection being an important benefit in reducing noise pick up at LF. In fact, I find a small, screened, LF loop to be quite a good mains cable detector. The big advantage of a small loop RX antenna over TX type antennas is that is easy to move the loop around until you find a position where the noise level is low - but you can do the same thing with a whip antenna. The other benefit of the loop is the directional nulls, of course. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31722 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 13:02:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 13:02:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 19690 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 13:01:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 13:01:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Baeg-0000q3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:00:34 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.20] (helo=mailout08.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Baef-0000pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:00:33 +0000 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18Baeb-0006Ii-0A; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:00:29 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.158.12.189]) by fwd08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18BaeW-1TMdUWC; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:00:24 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 14:00:24 +0100 Message-ID: <18BaeW-1TMdUWC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group jan-martin.noding@telenor.com schrieb: > Hi > > still experimenting with frame antenna for 136kHz. The attached drawing (20kB) > shows almost how it would have been made today, somewhat different from > the actual antenna. > > Experienced that it was no need for amplifier for a loop for 80m reception > (used to avoid electrical noise from the open power lines), > and now also experienced that an amplifier did not improve reception for my > 136kHz aerial, > the coupling has 1/100 area of the whole frame, seems to work for 50 ohm, > the tuning range seems to be somewhat too small, need somewhat increased > capacitance in cold weather, but it is low enough for rain. > > The S/N ratio is almost the same with the coupling loop as for high impedance > amplifier connected to the end of capacitance. > > The aerial has been tested in +10°C....-2°C > > Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) > > Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. > > 73 > > Jan_Martin > LA8AK@online.no (WW.Loc: JO38XC) > N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178) > http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ > Hi Jan-Martin, I have experimented with the BB130 tuning my loop (70m long, 12m high and 2m above ground with two windings). did receive signs from mf band (BC) nothing else. every thing was ok after changing the BB130 by remotely tuned variable capacitor. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7379 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 12:41:51 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 12:41:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 17862 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 12:41:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 12:41:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BaL6-0000lR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:40:20 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BaL6-0000lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:40:20 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:39:39 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:39:38 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:39:38 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:39:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:39:37 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F81@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Thread-Index: AcKKRaP3SeNgMoH2TA+pM15pnojY/AAAqu/Q From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2002 12:39:37.0689 (UTC) FILETIME=[8FEF2C90:01C28A48] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: SV: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group The main loop is 26turns 1x1m - it is still square, Q=150, tuning capacitance 550pF, the coupling loop is 50x50cm 73 Jan-Martin LA8AK -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: g6tmk [mailto:g6tmk@thersgb.net] Sendt: 12. november 2002 13:04 Hello Jan-Martin, How big is your frame antenna ? 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: LF: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Hi still experimenting with frame antenna for 136kHz. The attached drawing (20kB) shows almost how it would have been made today, somewhat different from the actual antenna. Experienced that it was no need for amplifier for a loop for 80m reception (used to avoid electrical noise from the open power lines), and now also experienced that an amplifier did not improve reception for my 136kHz aerial, the coupling has 1/100 area of the whole frame, seems to work for 50 ohm, the tuning range seems to be somewhat too small, need somewhat increased capacitance in cold weather, but it is low enough for rain. The S/N ratio is almost the same with the coupling loop as for high impedance amplifier connected to the end of capacitance. The aerial has been tested in +10°C....-2°C Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. 73 Jan_Martin LA8AK@online.no (WW.Loc: JO38XC) N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15471 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 12:13:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 12:13:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 15855 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 12:12:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 12:12:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BZpO-0000ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:07:34 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.227] (helo=warrior.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BZpN-0000ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:07:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 17817 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 12:07:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hugh) (62.60.118.254) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 12:07:01 -0000 Message-ID: <001201c28a43$90d64a80$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:03:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Jan-Martin, How big is your frame antenna ? 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: LF: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... Hi still experimenting with frame antenna for 136kHz. The attached drawing (20kB) shows almost how it would have been made today, somewhat different from the actual antenna. Experienced that it was no need for amplifier for a loop for 80m reception (used to avoid electrical noise from the open power lines), and now also experienced that an amplifier did not improve reception for my 136kHz aerial, the coupling has 1/100 area of the whole frame, seems to work for 50 ohm, the tuning range seems to be somewhat too small, need somewhat increased capacitance in cold weather, but it is low enough for rain. The S/N ratio is almost the same with the coupling loop as for high impedance amplifier connected to the end of capacitance. The aerial has been tested in +10°C....-2°C Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. 73 Jan_Martin LA8AK@online.no (WW.Loc: JO38XC) N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1550 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2002 11:32:59 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 11:32:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 3070 invoked by uid 10001); 12 Nov 2002 11:32:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2002 11:32:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BZ3u-0000Qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:18:30 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BZ3t-0000Qi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:18:29 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:16:52 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:16:42 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:16:42 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:16:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:16:41 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F80@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: ramme antenne Thread-Index: AcKJuk1YiXfnNFXlRZetkzxJGF0McgAgIjGA From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2002 11:16:42.0093 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA3F79D0:01C28A3C] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010600060407040501010600" Subject: LF: RX Frame Aerial for 136kc/s - still experimenting..... X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010600060407040501010600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi still experimenting with frame antenna for 136kHz. The attached drawing (20kB) shows almost how it would have been made today, somewhat different from the actual antenna. Experienced that it was no need for amplifier for a loop for 80m reception (used to avoid electrical noise from the open power lines), and now also experienced that an amplifier did not improve reception for my 136kHz aerial, the coupling has 1/100 area of the whole frame, seems to work for 50 ohm, the tuning range seems to be somewhat too small, need somewhat increased capacitance in cold weather, but it is low enough for rain. The S/N ratio is almost the same with the coupling loop as for high impedance amplifier connected to the end of capacitance. The aerial has been tested in +10°C....-2°C Signal strength last night for DCF39 was 80-150µV (-75...-80dBU) Not sure if it is still a point to ground the center of the tuned loop. 73 Jan_Martin LA8AK@online.no (WW.Loc: JO38XC) N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ --------------010600060407040501010600 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="136_Ramme1710a.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="136_Ramme1710a.gif" R0lGODdhzwK/A/cAAAAAAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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n9BkCRNbT7ZmbfZmcTZndXZnebZnfTL2Z4E2aIV2aIm2aI32aJE2aZV2aZm2aZ32aaE2aqV2 aqm2aq32arE2a7V2a7m2a732axbBNmzFdmzJtmzN9mzRNm3Vdm3fLyAAADs= --------------010600060407040501010600-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28907 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 22:45:04 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 22:45:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 11567 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 22:44:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 22:44:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BNFx-0007Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:42:09 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.203] (helo=mail4.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BNFw-0007RU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:42:08 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d147.as1.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.171.53]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gABMg7F68723 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:42:07 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:43:02 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021111102152.00a924d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: RE: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group 166.5kc. Bill Ashlock told me that the variable cap is a small part of the total capacitance so there will be only a bit over 1/2a in the variable cap. I do need to have a voltage rating of 2.5kv. This is for a 400w transmitter and a big transmit loop for a Part-5 experimental station. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:31 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... At 21:28 10/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I would like to know if anyone has built variable capacitors for >transmitters or tuners. I would like to build a variable capacitor that is >at least 100pf and can handle 40 amps of RF current. Does anyone have any >ideas or links to some articles??? >Thanks es 73's, >Mike>WE0H >http://www.we0h.us/lf.html Dear Mike, LF group, What frequency is it for? Surely not LF - at 185kHz, the voltage rating might be a problem - about 340kV with 40A! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12031 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 21:01:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 21:01:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10621 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Nov 2002 20:00:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 20:00:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BKic-00076u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:59:34 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.7] (helo=imo-m04.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BKib-00076l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:59:33 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.19c.bc77907 (3972) for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:58:58 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <19c.bc77907.2b016601@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:58:57 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: Tuesday's riddle Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi group,

this little experiment was pointed out to me by Ralph, DL2NDO a few years ago:

You need an ordinary NPN transistor (eg. 2N2222), a 9V battery, a 1k resistor and a voltmeter. Connect the negative battery terminal to the base and the positive to the emitter, via the resistor. Now predict the voltage drop between collector and base. Can't be too hard...

Then measure it - you'll be surprised. Any explanations? We finally ended up opening the poor transistor's case.

Have fun
Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9895 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 20:11:09 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 20:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 18558 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Nov 2002 20:12:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 20:12:14 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BKuM-0007BG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:11:42 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BKuM-0007B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:11:42 +0000 Received: from host213-122-146-26.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.146.26] helo=presario-1920) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18BKuK-000793-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:11:41 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:15:55 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Etiquette: Off-subject Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Whilst I don't like to intervene, for the sake of those who don't enjoy electronic puzzles could we bring this recent set of threads to a close when the latest puzzle has extracted suitable comment? Thence restrict the puzzles on the reflector to those that relate directly to LF .... 73 John, G3WKL ps. Well done to John, Laurie and Peter on the 73kHz T/A From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28719 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 17:37:10 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 17:37:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25557 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 17:39:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 17:39:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BIVw-0006sV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:38:20 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.2] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BIVv-0006sM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:38:19 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 17:38:17 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.181.182] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 283gkkRMP0067M31; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:38:15 GMT Message-ID: <3DCFE99D.90301@usa.net> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:32:13 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C28984.9AD76150.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Subject: LF: RE: An answer to Monday's puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.3 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUBJECT_FREQ,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Andy talbot wrote: >[...] >Congrats Hugh, you worked it out - use a thermometer, and to be really >scientific measure the temperature when shorted, and when open circuit. > > Or, maybe simpler, use a compass near the black box, to see if the needle is deviated from the magnetic field generated by the steady current of the Norton source. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28383 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 15:59:50 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 15:59:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9669 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Nov 2002 15:59:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 15:59:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BGx4-0006bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:58:14 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.147] (helo=einsteinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BGx3-0006bW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:58:14 +0000 Received: from host213-122-160-16.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.160.16] helo=there) by einsteinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18BGx3-0003tE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:58:13 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:59:38 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <01C28984.9AD76150.g4jnt@thersgb.net> In-reply-to: <01C28984.9AD76150.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: LF: RE: An answer to Monday's puzzle Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_FREQversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Monday 11 November 2002 13:16, you wrote: > No Steve, this doesn't work. - Although I fell into that trap initially. Yes, I realise where I went wrong. Too embarassing to admit! Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7122 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 13:21:15 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 13:21:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 11282 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 13:20:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 13:20:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BEUF-00066h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:20:19 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BEUF-00066Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:20:19 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18BCRV-00049A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:09:21 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BCRT-0005YQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:09:19 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021111105730.00aed178@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:08:22 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CCB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: A puzzle for Monday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_FREQversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Andy, LF Group At 08:46 11/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >You then conclude the internal circuit is >either a Thevenin source (an ideal 1V voltage source with a 1-ohm series >resistor) or a Norton source (an ideal 1A current source with a 1-ohm >shunt resistor). Using standard laboratory equipment, how could you >determine which one it is. > Well, it's hard to be certain, but if the box has a label on the back which says something like "use 275,000 AA cells - observe correct polarity", then it is probably the Norton current source one... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18158 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 13:17:03 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 13:17:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 8635 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 13:19:18 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 13:19:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BESM-00065U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:18:22 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BESM-00065L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:18:22 +0000 Received: from [212.1.155.65] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18BELd-0004lT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:11:26 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:16:54 -0000 Message-ID: <01C28984.9AD76150.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:16:39 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: RE: An answer to Monday's puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_FREQ, X_PRIORITY_HIGHversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group No Steve, this doesn't work. - Although I fell into that trap initially. For a Thevenin network, if you connect an external 1V source, you will get either 2A or zero flowing depending on polarity, as both voltage sources are in series. For a Norton, the external voltage source will force 1A though the internal 1R resistor and this will be added or subtracted, depending on polarity, from the internal 1A source, which will will now be flowing completely through the external voltage source as this has an internal resistance of zero and will swamp the 1R - result zero or 2A as before. Thev. and Norton are electrically identical so cannot be told apart. Remember superposition. Congrats Hugh, you worked it out - use a thermometer, and to be really scientific measure the temperature when shorted, and when open circuit. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Steve Thompson [SMTP:steve@eltac.co.uk] Sent: 2002/11/11 10:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: An answer to Monday's puzzle On Monday 11 November 2002 08:46, you wrote: > You have a small box whose internal workings you can't see, but the box > has two terminals. You measure these two terminals with a voltmeter, and > it measures precisely 1V. You short the two terminals with an ammeter, > and it reads precisely 1A. You then conclude the internal circuit is > either a Thevenin source (an ideal 1V voltage source with a 1-ohm series > resistor) or a Norton source (an ideal 1A current source with a 1-ohm > shunt resistor). Using standard laboratory equipment, how could you > determine which one it is. I'm feeling pleased with myself - I honestly worked this out from scratch! Apply a 1V external source and measure the current. Steve > thought the whole point of these theoretical sources is they were >interchangeable. >I did wonder if you could use a thermometer to measure the temperature rise, >as the 1 ohm resistor would dissipate more heat when shortcirucited in the >Thevenin configuraton, and none when open ciruit. Whereas the Norton config. >would disipate more when open ciruited. >But then, how much heat does an ideal voltage or current source dissipate ?? >It's all very theroretical. They are just mathematical tools really. >73 >Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3744 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 12:07:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 12:07:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 4279 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 12:07:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 12:07:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BDKQ-0005ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:06:06 +0000 Received: from [213.218.77.53] (helo=cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BDKP-0005vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:06:05 +0000 Received: from [62.21.133.49] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18BDKN-0000hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:06:04 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021111125625.00a65af0@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:06:42 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110135548.00a91d88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <057f01c2875f$0fd4ea90$0101a8c0@athlon> <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE:

Jim,  M0BMU wrote:


The un-neat thing about an oil dielectric is its propensity for catching fire... also, I don't think it has particularly low loss at RF - although a lot of big TX capacitors are oil-filled, the oil is there to increase the breakdown voltage, rather than act as the main dielectric, which is usually mica, I believe.


The wave form of the output voltage of my 136kHz transmitter with four HEXFET's type IRF520  in parallel-pushpull was not quite sinusoidal. To absorb the harmonics I connected a capacitor of about 50nF over the primary winding of the output transformer. I  tried capacitors of different type and make but all became hot after a while.
The only one running cool was a white coloured 50nF capacitor of a type that can be frequently found in German WW II radio equipment. These capacitors are oil-filled....

73, Dick, PA0SE


 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21223 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:59:02 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:59:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 26360 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:58:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:58:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BDBt-0005rw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:57:17 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BDBs-0005rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:57:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 24616 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:56:41 -0000 Received: from modem-96-61-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.61.96) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:56:41 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c28978$f734aae0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CCB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:47:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: An answer to Monday's puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUBJECT_FREQ,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I thought the whole point of these theoretical sources is they were interchangeable. I did wonder if you could use a thermometer to measure the temperature rise, as the 1 ohm resistor would dissipate more heat when shortcirucited in the Thevenin configuraton, and none when open ciruit. Whereas the Norton config. would disipate more when open ciruited. But then, how much heat does an ideal voltage or current source dissipate ?? It's all very theroretical. They are just mathematical tools really. 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Thompson" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:55 AM Subject: LF: An answer to Monday's puzzle > On Monday 11 November 2002 08:46, you wrote: > > You have a small box whose internal workings you can't see, but the box > > has two terminals. You measure these two terminals with a voltmeter, and > > it measures precisely 1V. You short the two terminals with an ammeter, > > and it reads precisely 1A. You then conclude the internal circuit is > > either a Thevenin source (an ideal 1V voltage source with a 1-ohm series > > resistor) or a Norton source (an ideal 1A current source with a 1-ohm > > shunt resistor). Using standard laboratory equipment, how could you > > determine which one it is. > I'm feeling pleased with myself - I honestly worked this out from scratch! > > Apply a 1V external source and measure the current. > > Steve > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31760 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:56:21 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:56:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 29705 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 10:55:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:55:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BCDC-0005d0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:54:34 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BCDC-0005cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:54:34 +0000 Received: from host213-122-12-159.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.12.159] helo=there) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18BCDB-0002zB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:54:33 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:55:57 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CCB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CCB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: LF: An answer to Monday's puzzle Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUBJECT_FREQversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Monday 11 November 2002 08:46, you wrote: > You have a small box whose internal workings you can't see, but the box > has two terminals. You measure these two terminals with a voltmeter, and > it measures precisely 1V. You short the two terminals with an ammeter, > and it reads precisely 1A. You then conclude the internal circuit is > either a Thevenin source (an ideal 1V voltage source with a 1-ohm series > resistor) or a Norton source (an ideal 1A current source with a 1-ohm > shunt resistor). Using standard laboratory equipment, how could you > determine which one it is. I'm feeling pleased with myself - I honestly worked this out from scratch! Apply a 1V external source and measure the current. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3336 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:35:59 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:35:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12898 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 10:35:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:35:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BBtg-0005YO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:34:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BBtg-0005YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:34:24 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18BBqk-0000CS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:31:22 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18BBqa-0004vp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:31:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021111102152.00a924d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:31:10 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 21:28 10/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: >I would like to know if anyone has built variable capacitors for >transmitters or tuners. I would like to build a variable capacitor that is >at least 100pf and can handle 40 amps of RF current. Does anyone have any >ideas or links to some articles??? >Thanks es 73's, >Mike>WE0H >http://www.we0h.us/lf.html Dear Mike, LF group, What frequency is it for? Surely not LF - at 185kHz, the voltage rating might be a problem - about 340kV with 40A! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30733 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 10:59:03 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:59:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 3578 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 10:58:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:58:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BCGh-0005fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:58:11 +0000 Received: from [203.109.254.43] (helo=grunt3.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BCGg-0005fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:58:11 +0000 Received: from p42-max17.chc.ihug.co.nz (athlon) [203.173.228.42] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BCGa-0001W8-00; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:58:05 +1300 Message-ID: <09e901c28971$39cd97c0$0101a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20021110135548.00a91d88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:58:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jim While I have similar reservations there have been a few oil filled tuning caps used successfully here with tesla coils-not the best parallel to use but certainly close enough to make the prospect interesting and worth following up. No problems reported with fires as yet either! Thee are seemingly very few liquids that are readily available that have high permittivity, low RF loss and a half decent voltage withstand capability. Main issue is getting accurate rf loss data at relevant frequencies. And what happens to that loss when the voltage applied is raised to the sort of levels that are needed for this application? None of the usual info sources carry this sort of detail, so I have not been able to find very much information on this at all and will be doing some measurements this summer to prove the usefulness or otherwise of this technique. Summer? Well, this is definitely an 'outside in the open air' sort of activity!! 73 Dave ZL3FJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:06 AM Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > Dear Dave, LF Group, > > At 08:43 09/11/2002 +1300, you wrote: > > The neat thing with the oil dielectric is it is basically self healing , > >even if it does arc over- no permanent capacitor damage will result as long > >as the power is shut off fast enough.. and that's the current issue-no pun > >intended! > > The un-neat thing about an oil dielectric is its propensity for catching > fire... also, I don't think it has particularly low loss at RF - although a > lot of big TX capacitors are oil-filled, the oil is there to increase the > breakdown voltage, rather than act as the main dielectric, which is usually > mica, I believe. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27888 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 10:19:00 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:19:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7932 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Nov 2002 10:20:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 10:20:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BBec-0005TI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:18:50 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.174] (helo=cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BBeb-0005T9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:18:49 +0000 Received: from modem-122.louisiana.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.69.122] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18BBea-0000p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:18:49 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c2896c$cee23640$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:25:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. DDH47 Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I also had a QSO with DDH47 cross band to 7025. I was very impressed by the "slick" operating proceedure. A typical QSO went as follows:- CQ DDH47 G3AQC K AQC 5NN 5NN LOC IO90NT QSL TU They then went on to the next contact. I know that we have an agreed proceedure for slow QRSS contacts,but is it as slick as this? We would not need the LOC info and 5NN etc would be replaced by O or M etc.,also the final QSL could be E E as at present. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9091 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 08:47:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:47:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3360 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 08:48:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:48:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BAEE-0005BW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:47:30 +0000 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BAEE-0005BM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:47:30 +0000 Received: (qmail 15430 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 08:47:24 +0000 Received: from warlock.dstl.gov.uk (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:47:24 +0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CCB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:46:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: A puzzle for Monday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,SUBJECT_FREQversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group You have a small box whose internal workings you can't see, but the box has two terminals. You measure these two terminals with a voltmeter, and it measures precisely 1V. You short the two terminals with an ammeter, and it reads precisely 1A. You then conclude the internal circuit is either a Thevenin source (an ideal 1V voltage source with a 1-ohm series resistor) or a Norton source (an ideal 1A current source with a 1-ohm shunt resistor). Using standard laboratory equipment, how could you determine which one it is. "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32141 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 08:46:25 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:46:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 5477 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Nov 2002 08:46:01 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:46:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18BAB8-00059s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:44:18 +0000 Received: from [80.68.3.204] (helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BAB7-00059j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:44:17 +0000 Received: (qmail 17201 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 11:44:14 +0300 Received: from ed.dx (10.0.1.11) by gw.dx with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 11:44:14 +0300 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:44:22 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60q) Personal Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <957390507.20021111084422@dx.ru> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Nov 6-10 Report #1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_THEBATversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello LF Group! QSOs NOV 6-9 on 136: NOV 6: reception G3AQC 71.75kHz QRSS30 test - 'M' copy My first attempt in life really to accept someone on 73kHz ;-)) QRSS10 test I had not time to begin to accept ;-(( NOV 7: 1805 OH5UFO O/0 NOV 8: 1805 IK5ZPV O/O 1850 OH1BS 579/559 (RU6LWZ) ... QSX QSO 136/3533 (RU6LWZ) 1936 OK1DTN 559/579 (RU6LWZ - first UA Eu - OK) 1951 DK2HRE 559/339 (RU6LWZ) 2150 M0BMU O/O 2250 DN1VLF O/O 2315 DF6NM O/O NOV 9: 1613 SM5EUF/5 O/O (first UA Eu - SM, also first QRSS QSO by Urban - congratulations!) 1815 G3XDV O/O (QRSS3/QRSS10) 1845 F6BWO O/O (QRSS3/QRSS10 First UA Eu - F) 1950 OZ8NJ 559/559 (RU6LWZ First UA Eu - OZ) ... QSX QSO 136/3533 (RU6LWZ) 2230 DL3FDO O/O 2307 PA0BWL O/M (QRSS3/QRSS10 First UA Eu - PA) Any details abt Nov 6-10 activity in Report #2 later 73! Ed RU6LA ed@dx.ru PS November 9 at me was birthday - thank by all who has made to me a gift (LF QSOs), not knowing about it! ;-)) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21045 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 08:29:44 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 08:29:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8616 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 07:29:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 07:29:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18B8zD-00053S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:27:55 +0000 Received: from [216.136.174.189] (helo=web13204.mail.yahoo.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18B8zC-00053J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:27:54 +0000 Message-ID: <20021111072752.76682.qmail@web13204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [213.235.24.84] by web13204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:27:52 GMT Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:27:52 +0000 (GMT) From: "David Sparvell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,MIME_BOUND_DIGITS_5,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group

Try a "flapper" capacitor - the type used on VHF/UHF. 100pF is relatively easy to make and 40 amps is no problem. For a dielectric use a piece of PTFE.

Regards

David G4FTC

 WE0H <we0h@core.com> wrote:

I would like to know if anyone has built variable capacitors for
transmitters or tuners. I would like to build a variable capacitor that is
at least 100pf and can handle 40 amps of RF current. Does anyone have any
ideas or links to some articles???
Thanks es 73's,
Mike>WE0H
http://www.we0h.us/lf.html



Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18477 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 03:26:41 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 03:26:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 3099 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 03:28:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 03:28:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18B5F2-0004hl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:28:00 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.201] (helo=mail2.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18B5F1-0004hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 03:27:59 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d119.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.119]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAB3RvX61209; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: "Post Rsgb_Lf_Group" , "SHMRG Reflector" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:28:47 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: LF: Question on building homebrew variable caps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I would like to know if anyone has built variable capacitors for transmitters or tuners. I would like to build a variable capacitor that is at least 100pf and can handle 40 amps of RF current. Does anyone have any ideas or links to some articles??? Thanks es 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12611 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 01:21:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 01:21:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 10803 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 01:23:59 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 01:23:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18B3II-0004YE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:23:14 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18B3II-0004Y4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:23:14 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021111012356.XRFS721.host3@att.net>; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:23:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3DCF0689.3F795227@att.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:23:21 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" , "LowFER" , Juergen.Gerpott@dwd.de Subject: LF: DDH47 as received in North Carolina Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sorry for the late report on the DDH47 test. I was away from home for the weekend. I have uploaded Argo screen shots and a wav file of the signal I received during the test. Thanks for the effort. http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/DDH47/ Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8181 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 00:16:15 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 00:16:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 28411 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2002 00:17:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2002 00:17:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18B2FF-0004Qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:16:01 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.83] (helo=mailout07.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18B2FE-0004QR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:16:00 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18B2FD-0000Yk-00; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:15:59 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.155.252.207]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 18B2Eu-28NOjoC; Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:15:40 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16628@9A0TCP> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 01:15:40 +0100 Message-ID: <18B2Eu-28NOjoC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: LF: Venner and chickens Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000603050506020907090600" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000603050506020907090600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, today I made some earthresistence measurings using the Venner-method described by G4FGQ (see attachment).our always curios cock was arround. connecting the 98VAC source to the outer rods the cock called the hens in a roar never heard before. the area with the rods was immediatly crowded with chickens pecking the turf and pulling out worms en masse. in a local QSO on VHF I told the story. my fellow said that this is a well known mystery. instead of 98VAC he connects the 220VAC power line directly to the rods when collecting bait for fishing purposes. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------000603050506020907090600 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="EARTHR~1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="EARTHR~1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh 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[216.93.66.205] (helo=mail0.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Ayot-00042V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 20:36:35 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d15.as1.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.143]) by mail0.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gAAKZw239708; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:35:58 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Cc: "Post Rsgb_Lf_Group" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:36:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: LF: I'm seeing double... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I'm seeing double how 'bout you??? You would swear the servers were hitting the bottle lately... Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27940 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 19:37:34 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 19:37:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 11164 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 19:39:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 19:39:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Axv5-0003vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:38:55 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Axv5-0003vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:38:55 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-8.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.8] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18Axv3-000BLd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:38:54 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c288f0$d0ccb380$08c428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <008e01c288ad$bef2d420$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:38:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 T/A Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Although from the receiving end watching 120s QRSS on 72.4kHz is like watching grass grow at the transmitting end it turned out to be fairly exciting. I had not studied the propagation predictions and I just tagged along with Laurie. I was late because of a family emergency and I didn't get the transmitter fired up until 2335, by which time it would seem that main propagation event had faded. This was the first time the car battery power supply was used and it proved much more resilient than the UPS batteries. There was a bit of a panic when I found that the DDS driver batteries were down to 10v but a quick connection of a charger resolved this. My main concern was for the antenna. I managed to improve the antenna current to 4.5amps and with an antenna feed point of 64ohms this works out at around 1300watts. With a small suburban antenna the voltage across the insulators must be enormous. After anxiously inspecting the insulators in the dark for pyrotechnics all looked well in spite of the heavy rain that had started to fall. It would seem that the insulator treatment, described previously, seemed to have done the trick. But there was no chance of leaving the transmitter on and going to bed as I think Laurie does. By 0130 no T/A reports had been received and I was ready to pack up. Fortunately I did a last check of the e-mail and got a report from John, which encouraged me to leave the transmitter on for a while. It seems that the propagation followed the familiar pattern of two broad humps seen so often in Alan's CFH recordings and so a complete 'LDO' was received in MA. Many thanks to Jose EA1PX and Markus DF6NM for their reports on frequency and signal strength. Most of all, thanks to John Andrews, W1TAG, for his patience in receiving the signals from Laurie and myself and for making the ARGO recordings available on his website. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16348 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 19:12:22 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 19:12:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 28626 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 19:11:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 19:11:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AxTy-0003ra-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:10:54 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.42] (helo=mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AxTx-0003rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:10:54 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021110191053.JVJJ3711.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <007e01c288ec$fe1f03a0$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 19:11:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RU6LA last day Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group RU6LA QRSS Tests 9 November 2002 (pm) I ran Argo continuously from 1320 to 2335UTC on Saturday 9, and took captures every 4 minutes. All stations sending QRSS3 except where shown. Here's the log: 1400: IK5ZPV calling CQ (signal 'M' to 'O') 1408: RU6LA beaconing with 10W ERP at strength 'M' 1418: Beacon now up to 'O' 1442: Beacon still visible but some fading down to 'M' 1451: SM3EUF/5 calling CQ at 'M' 1516: IK5ZPV and RU6LA both 'M' 1520: SM5EUF/5 now 'O'. RU6LA and IK5ZPV both calling CQ 1535: G3XDV calling RU6LA. No reply 1543: G3XDV changes to 10 second dot length to call again. No reply 1555: SM5EUF/5 calls RU6LA and they exchange 'O' reports 1615: G3XDV calls again, twice, but no reply 1635: RU6LA sends "UP 2HZ" 1643: G3XDV QSYs up 2Hz and calls again but RU6LA just sends CQ 1703: G3XDV QSYs 2Hz up from RU6LA's own frequency and has a QSO, exchanging 'O' reports. Some confusion, and the 10s dot length makes the QSO rather long at 70 minutes! My best two-way DX 1823: RU6LA replies to F6BWO who called with 10s dots and they exchange 'O' reports. 1916: OH1TN calling CQ 1950: RU6LA calling CQ. Called by DL3FDO but does not reply 2008: DL3FDO calls again but no reply 2024: RU6LA calling CQ "RX 71-75" 2044: RU6LA calling CQ "RX 71-75" again 2110: DL3FDO calls but no reply 2130: RU6LA puts out several CQs 2201: He is called by PA0BWL 2205: RU6LA sends "AGN" but doubles with PA0BWL 2208: DL3FDO calls again and this time they have a QSO, exchanging 'O' reports 2240: PA0BWL calls again and gets "9BM?" from RU6LA. PA0BWL calls again and this time gets an 'M' report and completes a QSO. 2325: RU6LA calls CQ but no-one replies Nothing more seen of the expedition Several Argo captures can be seen at http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transcontinental/2002-3/9nov.htm Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27959 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 18:36:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:36:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28840 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 18:35:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:35:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Awv1-0003jA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:34:47 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.105] (helo=imo-r09.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Awv1-0003j1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:34:47 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.158.173c8c63 (3890) for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:34:13 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <158.173c8c63.2b0000a4@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 13:34:12 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: UFO in PSK31? Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi group,

around 1630 UT I could see regular bursts which looked like a faint PSK31 beacon signal centered at 137734, slowly moving upwards to abt 137742. Too weak to be readable here, but odd chunks like "UFO" and "OX5" point in Reino's direction. Around 1740 the signal faded and finally drowned in the upcoming Luxembourg mumbling.  - Judging from our earlier tests using SpecLab, it might well be worth trying a slower version, like PSK08.

Regards
Markus, DF6NM


  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30905 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 18:35:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:35:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29420 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 18:36:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:36:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Awwq-0003kY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:36:40 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.2] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Awwp-0003kN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:36:39 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO localhost) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 18:36:38 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.171.248] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (C8.MAIN.1.09A) with ESMTP id 063gkJsKI0381M31; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:36:35 GMT Message-ID: <3DCE9785.4030408@usa.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:29:41 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110160106.00b0a638@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: DDH47 Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear group, the DDH47 station has been worked cross-band by Umberto I5IAR from Central Italy. He used the Amrad active whip for Rx, and transmitted on the 7 Mhz band. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22973 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 17:55:30 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:55:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24923 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 17:55:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:55:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AwIB-0003dR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:54:39 +0000 Received: from [194.134.35.175] (helo=smtp4.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AwIB-0003dI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:54:39 +0000 Received: from nl9222@wanadoo (p3649.vwr.wanadoo.nl [212.129.226.73]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 284A03E8D2 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:54:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 18:54:46 +0100 From: "K. Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Foxmail 4.1 [eg] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021110175436.284A03E8D2@smtp4.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Reports Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,UPPERCASE_25_50version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear.. Some reports, i am sure i missed atleast one station on Sunday. Friday, G3AQC -48.8dB [73Khz] RU6LA -40.0dB OH5UFO -34.5dB DN1VLF -44.1dB M0BMU -28.5dB F6BWO -30.0dB G3XDV -32.2dB Saturday, RU6LA -40.3dB IK5ZPV -42.5dB G3XDV -28.4dB OH1TN -35.1dB DL3FDO -30.0dB Sunday, DL3JMM -45.0dB I5TGC -44.6dB DF6NM -35.5dB [MTHELL] PA0BWL -22.5dB OH5UFO -30.9dB F6BWO -31.3dB DF6NM -33.1dB [DFCW] Gear used was a Kenwood R5000 [-20dB att.] LFA-520 and Argo. Reference signals as received here, if usable were: MSF 60 Khz -27.5dB HBG 75 Khz -27.9dB DCF 77.5 Khz -28.5dB DCF39 138.83 Khz -28.0dB 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 520 12' 15.0"N Long: 040 51' 40.5"E] ** Digital and Visual Amateur Radio Software ** http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14707 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 17:41:35 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:41:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 15838 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 17:43:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:43:44 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Aw6v-0003a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:43:01 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.11] (helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Aw6v-0003Zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 17:43:01 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 2764370 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:42:30 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c288e0$91d4f620$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> <001601c2881b$a59cb3c0$93e086d4@erica> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 12:42:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 72 kHz Screen Shots Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I have uploaded four screen shots that show the progress of Laurie's and Peter's signals last night. They are full-screen ARGO shots, about 100k each. The times on the screens are UTC, for the evening of 9-10 November. My comment last night about the differences in fading appears to have been premature; with QRSS120, the picture develops slowly. Shots: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/AQCLDO1.jpg http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/AQCLDO2.jpg http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/AQCLDO3.jpg http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/AQCLDO4.jpg John Andrews From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26604 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 17:37:38 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 17:37:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22300 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 16:36:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 16:36:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Av4b-0003Se-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:36:33 +0000 Received: from [212.35.226.183] (helo=k2.pncl.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Av4b-0003SV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:36:33 +0000 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (134.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.134]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gAAGaVM7002238 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:36:32 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021110163445.00a1c020@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:37:13 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" In-reply-to: <200211101116_MC3-1-19C1-E22E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: IEE HF2003 Conference Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050109030601030608070806" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050109030601030608070806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:16 10/11/02 -0500, G2AJV wrote: >.................................. Torroidal Antenna................" Surely not! Only one "R" in Toroidal. A "G2" too! Disgraceful! Walter G3JKV. (President, British Nitpickers' Association) --------------050109030601030608070806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT11103.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT11103.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 31/10/02 --------------050109030601030608070806-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7158 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 16:31:37 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 16:31:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 13603 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 16:31:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 16:31:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Auyt-0003Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:30:39 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Auyt-0003Pj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:30:39 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18Auwb-0006UO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:28:17 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AuwQ-0005bV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:28:06 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110160106.00b0a638@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:22:05 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: DDH47 Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear LF Group, I was pleased to work RU6LA for the second time on Friday night just after 9pm. It was a solid QRSS3 contact, in spite of the fairly high noise level. Ed's signal was about s3 here, allthough he could not hear me. Later, I re-tuned to 147.3kHz to hear the DDH47 50th anniversary broadcast, and cross-band QSOs. I had a 7MHz dipole set up, and spent ages calling them on 40m with no luck, even after the pile-up had subsided. Eventually, after much cursing in the dark and rain, I managed to re-tune my LF wire on 80m, and was able to work them straight away around 0100. Thanks to the people at DDH47 - it isn't every day you get to have a live 2-way QSO with an LF utility station! On Saturday morning, amongst others I worked DL2HRE, Edgar, who said it was his first G contact on LF. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17678 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 16:20:37 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 16:20:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6316 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 16:20:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 16:20:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Aunv-0003N1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:19:19 +0000 Received: from [149.174.40.1] (helo=siaab1aa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Aunu-0003Ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:19:19 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaab1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.18) id LAA04259 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:18:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:16:50 -0500 From: "boffin1" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200211101116_MC3-1-19C1-E22E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Subject: LF: IEE HF2003 Conference Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear John, I shall be very happy to present a paper on " The Importance of Vector Potential In The Radiation Process as Illustrated by the G2AJV Torroidal Antenna" if you consider that this may help the cause. With many thanks for all your previous kindness, 73, Roger Jennison (FIEE etc). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27858 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 15:11:39 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 15:11:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22842 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 14:10:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 14:10:58 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Asmx-0003Bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:10:11 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Asmw-0003Bl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:10:10 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18AsmK-0004ml-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:09:32 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AsmI-0004OD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:09:30 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110135548.00a91d88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 14:06:12 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <057f01c2875f$0fd4ea90$0101a8c0@athlon> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Dave, LF Group, At 08:43 09/11/2002 +1300, you wrote: > The neat thing with the oil dielectric is it is basically self healing , >even if it does arc over- no permanent capacitor damage will result as long >as the power is shut off fast enough.. and that's the current issue-no pun >intended! The un-neat thing about an oil dielectric is its propensity for catching fire... also, I don't think it has particularly low loss at RF - although a lot of big TX capacitors are oil-filled, the oil is there to increase the breakdown voltage, rather than act as the main dielectric, which is usually mica, I believe. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13933 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 12:17:22 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 12:17:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 17067 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 11:16:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 11:16:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Aq2l-0002w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:14:19 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.18] (helo=cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Aq2k-0002vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:14:18 +0000 Received: from modem-4.aradan.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.132] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18Aq2i-0001NV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:14:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c288ab$636bf5c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:20:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RU6LA tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I tried to contact RU6LA cross band 73/136 on Wed and again Sat. but in spite of a good signal here from Ed and a report from Vlad that Ed had seen my 73kHz signals "M" copy on Wed. we failed to made contact. Perhaps this was due to changing conditions or there may have been some confusion regarding timing. Next time !. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9651 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 11:32:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 11:32:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 21416 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 11:31:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 11:31:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AqJ5-0002zb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:31:11 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.210] (helo=cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AqJ5-0002zS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:31:11 +0000 Received: from modem-184.louisiana.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.69.184] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AqJ2-0004H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:31:10 +0000 Message-ID: <008e01c288ad$bef2d420$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 11:37:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 T/A Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Many thanks to all who looked for signals from Peter and me last night,also for reports on sigs and frequency. I think that this shows that in spite of Alans reserves we are well on the way to predicting when conditions will be suitable for T/A etc on LF.At least better than last year when I transmitted for many nights in order to catch a good one Hi. We can't now be far off a hand speed morse contact T/A on 136kHz. 73 Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4819 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 09:58:23 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 09:58:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 17894 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 10:00:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 10:00:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AosR-0002oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:59:35 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.41] (helo=mta01-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AosQ-0002oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:59:34 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021110095934.KROB9836.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 09:59:34 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c2889f$fc537260$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 10:00:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RU6LA tests Fri-Sat 8-9 November Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group RU6LA QRSS Tests 8/9 November 2002 I ran Argo continuously from 1350UTC on Friday 8 to 1315 on Saturday 9 November, and took captures every 4 minutes. All stations sending QRSS3 except where shown. Here's the log: 1355: RU6LA seen with 10 watt beacon at good strength until 1350 1403: RU6LA sending QRSS60 (60 second dot length) 1450: RU6LA very good signal 1534: RU6LA still very good strength 1542: RU6LA weaker 1550: RU6LA poor signal 1606: IK5ZPV calling CQ at strength 'M' 1610: RU6LA with QRSS60 transmission at good strength 1651: RU6LA still good. IK5ZPV seen at 'M' 1711: IK5ZPV very poor signal 1733: RU6LA back to QRSS3 strength 'O' 1752: IK5ZPV working RU6LA 1811: F6BWO calling RU6LA. No reply 1817: F6BWO calls again. No reply 2028: RU6LA calling CQ. Excellent signal, audible at S2. No reply. [I was watching television - a missed opportunity!] 2040: RU6LA calling CQ again. No reply 2053: Another CQ but signal now dropping 2104: RU6LA and OH5UFO visible 2115: M0BMU working RU6LA and exchanging 'O' reports. BMU receiving LA at S3, but BMU not audible with LA. 2201: RU6LA calling CQ. G3XDV calls him 2215: RU6LA giving 'O' to DN1VLF but QSO lost 2228: RU6LA calling CQ. G3XDV calls him 2237: RU6LA sending 'O' again to DN1VLF 2243: DF6NM sending callsign 2248: DN1VLF giving 'O' report to RU6LA 2257: RU6LA signs and immediately QSOs DF6NM and gives him 'O' report 2321: RU6LA calling CQ "Rx 650 750". G3XDV and F6BWO both called. No reply 2352: OH5UFO calling CQs for the next hour 0024: F6BWO uses 10s dot speed to call RU6LA 0036: RU6LA calling CQ but quite weak 0044: F6BWO uses 10s dot speed to call RU6LA again 0052: RU6LA sending QRZ but quite weak 0104: F6BWO uses 10s dot speed to call RU6LA again 0116: RU6LA calling CQ again 0120: F6BWO goes back to 3s dot speed to call RU6LA again 0132: OH5UFO calling CQ. F6BWO calls but gets only a QRZ No more activity until . . . 0706: RU6LA sending 10W beacon, strength 'O' 0750: Beacon drops in strength to 'M' 0818: Beacon ends, still at 'M' 0906: RU6LA again sending 10W beacon, strength 'M' to 'O' 0924: Beacon gets weaker to 'M' 1050: Beacon even weaker 'M' to 'T' by 1106 1124: Beacon back to 'M' 1154: Beacon weak 1202: Beacon ends Nothing heard until . . . 1315: G3XDV calling CQ. No reply Lots of Argo captures can be found at http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transcontinental/2002-3/8-9nov.htm Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16780 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 03:33:27 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 03:33:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 22514 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 03:32:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 03:32:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AipH-0000Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 03:31:55 +0000 Received: from [206.46.170.212] (helo=pop018.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AipH-0000Ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 03:31:55 +0000 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.32.235]) by pop018.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021110033120.NVVX1896.pop018.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:31:20 -0600 Message-ID: <3DCDD31F.4AFDC36B@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 22:31:43 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John Andrews" , "rsgb_lf_group" Cc: "lf-amrad" , "AMRAD Tacos" X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at pop018.verizon.net from [141.156.32.235] at Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:31:20 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: LF: G3AQC Copied in MA!] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FWD_MSG,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John Andrews wrote: > On arriving home at 2330, I find an "AQ" and most of a "C" on the screen. > The signal looks good. No sign of anything on 72.400. I make Laurie's > frequency as 72400.95 Hz. Will keep watching. > > John Andrews, W1TAG John, G3AQC and PeterG3LDO, Congratulations from the Amrad Gang :-) André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25634 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 02:46:24 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:46:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28310 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 02:47:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:47:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Ai4l-0000Dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:43:51 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.13] (helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Ai4l-0000DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:43:51 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 40340280 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:43:20 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c28862$f2bc6280$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> <004501c28859$427620e0$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000b01c2885c$d482b5e0$731686d4@erica> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 02:43:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 72 kHz faded out... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=NO_COST,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group As of 0230 UTC, both AQC and LDO are gone. Here are a couple of screen clips from the evening: This was the cleanest shot of G3AQC: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/AQC-8.jpg This was the only complete "LDO" that came through. There's an extra "O" (no charge) at the beginning: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/OLDO.jpg Congrats to Laurie and Peter. And to Alan for his double negatives. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26685 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 02:35:43 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:35:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4090 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 01:35:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 01:35:04 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Agzf-0008Ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:34:31 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.14] (helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Agze-0008TR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:34:30 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 24888504 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:33:59 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c28859$427620e0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:34:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Clearly seeing G3AQC and G3LDO, though they are moving apart from each other! Screen shots later... trying to be sociable upstairs. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1151 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 02:00:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:00:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 5857 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 02:00:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 02:00:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AhNx-00007N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:59:37 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.12] (helo=smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AhNx-00007D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:59:37 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-89.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.89] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AhNw-0003LB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c2885c$d482b5e0$731686d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> <004501c28859$427620e0$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:59:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John Andrews, W1TAG > Clearly seeing G3AQC and G3LDO, though they are moving apart from each > other! > > Screen shots later... trying to be sociable upstairs. In view of your report I will leave the transmitter on! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32312 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 01:58:26 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 01:58:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 4944 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 01:58:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 01:58:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AhIL-00005I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:53:49 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AhIL-000059-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:53:49 +0000 Received: from tnt-13-115.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.22.115] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AhII-000OTC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c2885c$0486b120$731686d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> <003d01c28851$b3d4ee40$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:53:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John W1TAG said: > Peter, > I may be seeing some pieces of your signal. Got a dash on 72400.24, now > looks like another on 0.23. There are some scraps on higher frequencies > before that. > Strangely, Laurie is in a fade. A family emergency prevented me getting on earlier so it looks as though I missed the conditions peak. I did say I was switching off at 0100 but I am still here at 0155. The transmitter frequency is 72400.24 and working very well in spite of very heavy rain (4.4amps into the antenna) but I think I will call it a night at the end of the present transmission. John, many thanks for your efforts and congratulations to you and Laurie on tonights results on 73kHz.. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9604 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 01:20:19 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 01:20:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 8483 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:19:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:19:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Afoa-0008Er-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:19:00 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.12] (helo=smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Afoa-0008Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:19:00 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-27.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.27] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AfoW-000P51-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:18:57 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:18:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Jose said >Peter started "LDO" transmission at 23.36 UTC on 72400.29 Hz >If you can see signals from Peter and Laurie. Perhaps, on this occasion, giving the difference in frequency would help locate LDO in the U.S. That would cancel any possible error in frequency measurement between you and John. I am monitoring my frequency using a high resolution PM6667 counter. When I first started transmission the frequency was 72.40029kHz . It is now 72.40027kHz - I found I had a problem with the DDS PSU which has now been fixed. Transmitter working well in spite of the rain, with an antenna current of 4.5amps. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13120 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:40:59 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:40:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28546 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:42:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:42:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Ag9L-0008Nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:40:27 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.20] (helo=dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Ag9I-0008Nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:40:24 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 24348445 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:39:53 -0500 Message-ID: <003d01c28851$b3d4ee40$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> <002801c2884e$c5a44920$02e486d4@erica> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:40:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter, I may be seeing some pieces of your signal. Got a dash on 72400.24, now looks like another on 0.23. There are some scraps on higher frequencies before that. Strangely, Laurie is in a fade. John, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2071 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:22:42 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:22:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 12218 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:24:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:24:55 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Aftp-0008KG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:24:25 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Afto-0008K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:24:24 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026121.nexo.es [195.235.26.121]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA25769 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:24:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002501c2884f$7b3a2fc0$791aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 01:24:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi David:
 
I think that itsn´t necessary because I agree with John about Laurie´s frequency. Actually the difference is not constant, due to slight drift of both carriers, but now (00.16 UTC) the difference is 0.70 Hz, Peter on 72400.26 and Laurie on 72400.96 Hz.
 
73, José EA1PX
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA!

In a message dated 11/9/02 11:52:18 PM GMT Standard Time, jpradoe@nexo.es writes:


Hi John and All:

Peter started "LDO" transmission at 23.36 UTC on 72400.29 Hz

73, José - EA1PX



Jose.

If you can see signals from Peter and Laurie. Perhaps, on this occasion, giving the difference in frequency would help locate LDO in the U.S.  That would cancel any possible error in frequency measurement between you and John.

GL

David  G0MRF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31342 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:17:48 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:17:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17415 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Nov 2002 00:19:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:19:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfpM-0008FP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:19:48 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.6] (helo=imo-m03.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfpM-0008Ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:19:48 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.43.14a8041f (25914) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:19:12 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <43.14a8041f.2aff0000@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:19:12 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: T/A frequencies Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear LF group,

at the moment (Sat/Sun 00:00 UT) I can see three slow QRSS signals, frequency readings should be accurate to +-10mHz. SNR is estimated for 10mHz bins (Argo 90s) including moderate QRN, however the RX ant is currently neither optimized nor calibrated on 72 kHz.

135921.73Hz RU6LA  SNR=38dB E=10dBuV/m
72400.95Hz G3AQC SNR=26dB
72400.30Hz G3LDO SNR=26dB (since 23:35)

Wishing the best of luck to all participants

Markus, DF6NM
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23591 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:09:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:09:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 29937 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2002 00:08:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2002 00:08:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Afe5-0008BU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:08:09 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.14] (helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Afe4-0008BL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:08:08 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 24862925 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 19:07:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c2884d$3202d160$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000501c28849$4607c660$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:07:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Watching QRSS120 screens is about as action-packed as watching concrete harden. For Dave and Jose -- I'm dead on with HBG, so I should be reading Laurie's frequency within 10 mHz or so. John, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17004 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:56:52 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:56:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3970 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 23:59:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:59:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfUo-00087y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:58:34 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.162] (helo=imo-m07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfUn-00087p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:58:34 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.7a.307e8076 (4340) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:58:08 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.307e8076.2afefb10@aol.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:58:08 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/9/02 11:52:18 PM GMT Standard Time, jpradoe@nexo.es writes:


Hi John and All:

Peter started "LDO" transmission at 23.36 UTC on 72400.29 Hz

73, José - EA1PX



Jose.

If you can see signals from Peter and Laurie. Perhaps, on this occasion, giving the difference in frequency would help locate LDO in the U.S.  That would cancel any possible error in frequency measurement between you and John.

GL

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13324 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:54:30 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:54:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 1290 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 23:54:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:54:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfQC-00081a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:53:48 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.10] (helo=smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfQC-00081Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:53:48 +0000 Received: from tnt-21-2.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.228.2] helo=erica) by smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18AfQB-0006Sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c2884b$41811ae0$02e486d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> <001601c2881b$a59cb3c0$93e086d4@erica> <002f01c2881c$e0b4c3c0$0200a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:53:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: 73kHz T/A attempt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John > > > I hope to come on tonight as well. I will be on 72.400kHz sending LDO > > QRSS120. I will make one transmission between 2300 and 0100 UTC. Last time > I > > transmitted Jose, EA1PX measured my frequency as 724031. > > Did you intend an extra "0" in that? Such as: 72400.31? Yes that is correct, also Jose reports a drift of one part per million per hour Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20558 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:53:03 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:53:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7077 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:52:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:52:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfOt-0007zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:52:27 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.103] (helo=imo-r07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfOt-0007zZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:52:27 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.dc.1fa196ad (4340) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:51:47 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:51:47 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: LF: DDH47 Test Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Came home at 23.00 Friday evening and remembered DDH47 was on.

But only 2.4GHz dish and 70cm beam........

Checked QSX from the reflector and cut wire at 33 feet for 7MHz. Ran wire out of window to garden fence.
Also ran out second wire abt 45 feet out of window for LF RX.

Switched on at 00.05.  With no matching, heard DDH47 at 559.  Added 1 standard bucket of wire, signal now 589.........That'll do nicely.

Listened to 147.3kHz and heard "QSX  3565"   -  ** ****

Tuned up 33 feet of wire at 15ft AGL on 80m.

Made one call on 3565 and heard reply come back on 147.3k.
Exchanged info and made QSO. -Great !

I'm not surprised that 147.3 was very strong in London. But I was very impressed that they could hear a really poor signal on 80m.

Thanks all at DDH47.


73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20426 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:52:50 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:52:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 463 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 23:52:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:52:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfOC-0007zV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:51:44 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfOC-0007zM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:51:44 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026121.nexo.es [195.235.26.121]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA24209 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:51:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000701c2884a$eaa2f220$791aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> <000501c28849$4607c660$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 00:50:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id AAA24209 Subject: LF: Re: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John and All: Peter started "LDO" transmission at 23.36 UTC on 72400.29 Hz 73, José - EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:39 AM Subject: LF: G3AQC Copied in MA! > On arriving home at 2330, I find an "AQ" and most of a "C" on the screen. > The signal looks good. No sign of anything on 72.400. I make Laurie's > frequency as 72400.95 Hz. Will keep watching. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4671 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 23:41:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:41:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24602 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 23:41:20 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 23:41:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AfCu-0007w8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:40:04 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.23] (helo=dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AfCu-0007vu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:40:04 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 2097435 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:39:33 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c28849$4607c660$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:39:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: G3AQC Copied in MA! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On arriving home at 2330, I find an "AQ" and most of a "C" on the screen. The signal looks good. No sign of anything on 72.400. I make Laurie's frequency as 72400.95 Hz. Will keep watching. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20281 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 19:14:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 19:14:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 18058 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 18:14:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 18:14:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18Aa6W-0007WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:13:08 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.10] (helo=smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Aa6W-0007WM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:13:08 +0000 Received: from tnt-18-147.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.224.147] helo=erica) by smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18Aa6P-000IlN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:13:02 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c2881b$a59cb3c0$93e086d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:09:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73kHz T/A attempt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie said > > So better late than never, I will have a go tonight,and hopefully you guys > > will be able to spare some time to look. > > Start 22:30 Freq 72.401(as near as I can get) QRSS120 > > I will be listening. Er, make that --watching--. I hope to come on tonight as well. I will be on 72.400kHz sending LDO QRSS120. I will make one transmission between 2300 and 0100 UTC. Last time I transmitted Jose, EA1PX measured my frequency as 724031. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17574 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 18:23:04 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 18:23:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 26333 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 18:22:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 18:22:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AaFK-0007Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:22:14 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.23] (helo=dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AaFK-0007Zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 18:22:14 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx13.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 2001650 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:21:43 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01c2881c$e0b4c3c0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> <001601c2881b$a59cb3c0$93e086d4@erica> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:21:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73kHz T/A attempt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter: > I hope to come on tonight as well. I will be on 72.400kHz sending LDO > QRSS120. I will make one transmission between 2300 and 0100 UTC. Last time I > transmitted Jose, EA1PX measured my frequency as 724031. Did you intend an extra "0" in that? Such as: 72400.31? John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23851 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 13:38:22 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 13:38:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2716 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 13:39:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 13:39:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AVp7-0007C4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:38:53 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.103] (helo=imo-r07.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AVp7-0007Bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:38:53 +0000 Received: from RaySoifer@cs.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.78.303448ca (4402) for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:38:17 -0500 (EST) From: RaySoifer@cs.com Message-ID: <78.303448ca.2afe69c9@cs.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:38:17 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 206 Subject: Re: LF: DDH47 on 147.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, Delighted that Lloyd, W3NF, has copied DDH47 on this side of the pond. A 'first?' I am presently in Ft. Worth, TX, attending the AMSAT AGM but recorded the QRSS3 transmission using my portable ICF-SW100E rx and will play it back through Argo when I return home. If anything came through, I will let you know. Last December, DDH47 came through RST 579 on CW using this rx, but I was in London at the time (hi!) 73, Ray, W2RS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6097 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 13:17:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 20928 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 13:18:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 13:18:18 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AVUa-00077z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:17:40 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.13] (helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AVUZ-00077L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 13:17:39 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 40101340 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:17:08 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c287f2$52f02360$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:17:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz T/A attempt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie, > So better late than never, I will have a go tonight,and hopefully you guys > will be able to spare some time to look. > Start 22:30 Freq 72.401(as near as I can get) QRSS120 I will be listening. Er, make that --watching--. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26921 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 12:27:29 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:27:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 14566 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 12:27:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:27:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AUh3-0006z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:29 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AUh2-0006yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:28 +0000 Received: from host62-6-71-130.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.71.130] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AUh1-0003ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c287eb$1b31ad60$8247063e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:18:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: VO1report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Ian, no problem but your really started a buzz of anticipation......I look forward to hearing your LF transmissions before long......and hearing of your success on LF to VO1 :-) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Ian Kyle To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 09 November 2002 11:11 Subject: LF: VO1report >sorry folks, wrong reflector. This should have gone to the fivemegs lot. >Apologies. > >Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32507 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 12:27:19 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:27:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 14546 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 12:26:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:26:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AUh4-0006zJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:30 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AUh3-0006zA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:29 +0000 Received: from host62-6-71-130.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.71.130] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AUh2-0003ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:26:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c287eb$1bfb17e0$8247063e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:25:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: re 73k T/A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Laurie, I hope I have not overstated it (!!) but good luck with the tests. It is easier to make predictions about possible poor propagation periods.....but like the forecasts all astrologers, oralcles, and sundry sooth-sayers, these tend to be self-fullfilling !! Good Luck all it nice to see the boundaries being stretched again. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15009 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 12:14:00 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:14:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16031 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 12:13:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 12:13:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AUTo-0006us-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:12:48 +0000 Received: from [149.201.10.254] (helo=mailgate.fh-aachen.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AUTn-0006uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 12:12:47 +0000 Received: from db0bm.ampr.org (db0bm.automation.fh-aachen.de [193.175.144.197]) by mailgate.fh-aachen.de (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gA9CC8M13235 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:12:08 GMT Posted-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:12:08 GMT Received: (from dj1yfk@localhost) by db0bm.ampr.org (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) id gA9CCUw24113 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:12:30 +0100 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:12:30 +0100 From: "dj1yfk" Message-ID: <200211091212.gA9CCUw24113@db0bm.ampr.org> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DDH47 Crossband-Event X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello, I worked DDH47 yesterday crossband (QSX 7025 kHz). They had a great signal here of course. DK3UZ (one of the DDH47-Team) asked me to ask anybody who has heard DDH47 but not made a crossband QSO to send a report via e-Mail (including RST, QTR, QTH) to Juergen.Gerpott@dwd.de, DL8HCI. 73, Fabian DJ1YFK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30276 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 11:10:16 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 11:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 13369 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Nov 2002 11:11:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 11:11:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ATVY-0006oD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 11:10:32 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.45] (helo=mta5-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ATVY-0006o4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 11:10:32 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.204.254]) by mta5-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021109111031.GFLA570.mta5-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:10:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c287e0$dfe2c500$feccfc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:56:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: VO1report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group sorry folks, wrong reflector. This should have gone to the fivemegs lot. Apologies. Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32110 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 09:53:20 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 09:53:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 3144 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 09:54:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 09:54:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ASGF-0006cE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:50:39 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.176] (helo=cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ASGF-0006c5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:50:39 +0000 Received: from modem-57.missouri.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.76.57] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18ASGE-0001LD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 09:50:38 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c287d6$88be01e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:57:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz T/A attempt. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John,Dex and All, I have just seen a report from Alan which indicates that last night could have been a good one for a T/A attempt. I also note that John was recieving a good signal from DDH47. So better late than never, I will have a go tonight,and hopefully you guys will be able to spare some time to look. Start 22:30 Freq 72.401(as near as I can get) QRSS120 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21459 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 08:53:08 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 08:53:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 8120 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 08:52:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 08:52:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ARL8-0006VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:51:38 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ARL8-0006VN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:51:38 +0000 Received: from host213-1-67-57.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.67.57] helo=dave) by protactinium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18ARL7-0005CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:51:37 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:52:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DCCCCE1.13977.650238@localhost> In-reply-to: <000d01c2877b$7d1d6200$4bba7ad5@main> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Re: LF: re VO1NA report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On 8 Nov 2002 at 23:05, Alan Melia wrote: > Hi Ian, have we missed something ??.....Do enligten us more...Is this the > first GI<>VE / VO one-way on 136?? > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > alan.melia@btinternet.com Don't get too excited, this was on 5MHz. Ian obviously accidentally posted it on the wrong reflector... It was an update to a report on the 5MHz reflector yesterday... ps be aware of a new virus masquerading as a mail saying you have received a greetings card. Do not retrieve the greetings card, it is a virus! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1564 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 03:18:55 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 03:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 2699 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 03:18:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 03:18:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AM7Z-00064g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:17:17 +0000 Received: from [205.197.48.109] (helo=gemini.smart.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AM7Y-00064X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:17:16 +0000 Received: from dpc000 ([162.33.221.181]) by gemini.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA17101 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c2879e$7f7742a0$cc28730a@direcpc.com> From: "lloyd chastant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:17:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DDH47 on 147.3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Had nice QRSS3 copy on several of the tranmissions at :15 and :45 after the hour.Also between those times seems like about 20sec dashes with 2-3 sec spacings.Nice signal thus far tonite from Maryland FM19MH W3NF de Lloyd Can send captures of the QRSS3 if anyone interested From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24837 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 01:34:48 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 01:34:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 23979 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 01:34:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 01:34:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AKVH-0005vG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:33:39 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.27] (helo=mx17.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AKVH-0005v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:33:39 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by mx17.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 175870 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:40:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001601c2878f$f9570ce0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:33:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: DDH47 Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group The German DDH47 test on 147.3 kHz has been coming in well here tonight. The 0045 and 0115 QRSS3 transmissions were very clear. I was copying the CW by ear in that period, as well. As of 0130, the CW has faded somewhat. John Andrews, W1TAG FN42ch From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29151 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2002 00:09:03 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Nov 2002 00:09:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 14075 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 23:08:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 23:08:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AIDp-0005fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:07:29 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AIDp-0005fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:07:29 +0000 Received: from host213-122-186-75.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.186.75] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18AIDo-0004Tr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c2877b$7d1d6200$4bba7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:05:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: re VO1NA report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Ian, have we missed something ??.....Do enligten us more...Is this the first GI<>VE / VO one-way on 136?? Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27495 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 23:42:44 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 23:42:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 17212 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 23:42:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 23:42:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AIin-0005l2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:39:29 +0000 Received: from [206.46.170.141] (helo=out002.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AIim-0005kt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:39:28 +0000 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.221.205]) by out002.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021108233852.JAXK2867.out002.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:38:52 -0600 Message-ID: <3DCC4B1A.2F14D5E6@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:39:06 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000b01c28777$d9c7c080$21cdfc3e@ian> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at out002.verizon.net from [141.156.221.205] at Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:38:52 -0600 Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA report. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Ian Kyle wrote: > Des GI3XZM is not on e-mail but is a longtime buddy so I rang him up to give > him the tidings. I dare not give his unexpurgated reaction but it would > appear that he was > highly chuffed. > > He confirms that he was calling CQ at the specified time and feeling rather > lonely so Joes report made his week. > > Gear in use was his homebrew three tube TX running 20 Watts into a square > loop of 50 ft side and 20 ft above ground level, which is only a couple of > feet above high water mark (and occasionally not above it at all). > > I shall be happy to QSP to him as we are in almost daily telephone contact - > usually arguing about something. > > 73 de, > > Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ GI3XZM was heard across the Atlantic with 20 watts ? wow, kudos :-) May we have more juicy details ? 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14365 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 22:43:08 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 22:43:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23758 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 22:42:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 22:42:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AHm3-0005bV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:38:47 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AHm2-0005bM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 22:38:46 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.205.33]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021108223845.YSKR21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:38:45 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c28777$d9c7c080$21cdfc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 22:39:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: VO1NA report. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Des GI3XZM is not on e-mail but is a longtime buddy so I rang him up to give him the tidings. I dare not give his unexpurgated reaction but it would appear that he was highly chuffed. He confirms that he was calling CQ at the specified time and feeling rather lonely so Joes report made his week. Gear in use was his homebrew three tube TX running 20 Watts into a square loop of 50 ft side and 20 ft above ground level, which is only a couple of feet above high water mark (and occasionally not above it at all). I shall be happy to QSP to him as we are in almost daily telephone contact - usually arguing about something. 73 de, Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18536 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 20:44:25 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 20:44:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 17738 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 19:43:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 19:43:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AF1k-0005KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:42:48 +0000 Received: from [203.109.254.46] (helo=grunt6.ihug.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AF1j-0005KK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:42:47 +0000 Received: from p42-max17.chc.ihug.co.nz (athlon) [203.173.228.42] by grunt6.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18AF1e-0007ub-00; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 08:42:42 +1300 Message-ID: <057f01c2875f$0fd4ea90$0101a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 08:43:06 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Both these problems are standard fare in 'older' physics texts- anyone rember Resnick & Halliday, for example? There is another more interesting side to Andy's problem as stated however. Consider the A/d ratio for a practical air spaced capacitor of 1uF and adequate voltage 'withstand' capability. It's not exactly small!!! In practice the spacing would need to be somewhat greater than the minimum purely for reasons of mechanical support/stability, making the required plate area even greater! OK - it was way OT but reason I raised it is I am currently looking at using just such a capacitor arrangement (with many plates, not just a pair) and some sort of oil (maybe peanut) to resonate my LF transmitting loop on 180 kHz. I have been down this path before but never actually progressed the matter till now--as I am thinking about raising the transmitter RF output power I will have to rebuild the present arrangement which has a bunch of 4700 pf 500 volt polystyrenes in series parallel. The idea of just pumping dielectric in and out to tune the thing has always had appeal but has been offset with other possible practical issues-- eg. I'll be running this up in the open air initially-just in case! The neat thing with the oil dielectric is it is basically self healing , even if it does arc over- no permanent capacitor damage will result as long as the power is shut off fast enough.. and that's the current issue-no pun intended! 73 Dave ZL3FJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:51 AM Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > Dear Andy, LF group, > > At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it > >had any right to.... > > Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, > loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. > You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge > will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. > Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. > But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged > capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both > capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the > other 25uJ gone? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30151 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 20:13:37 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 20:13:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27757 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 18:54:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 18:54:49 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AEFp-0005A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:53:17 +0000 Received: from [205.158.62.59] (helo=ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AEFo-00059z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 18:53:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 48428 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Nov 2002 18:52:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20021108185245.48427.qmail@iname.com> Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [62.248.214.56] by ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for reino.multanen@writeme.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:52:45 +0800 From: "Reino Multanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 02:52:45 +0800 X-Originating-IP: 62.248.214.56 X-Originating-Server: ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: RULWZ X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_2,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group GE OM´s and greetings from East Finland, I hear just now RU6LWZ abt 569 ca 136.4 kHz = 73/Repe -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15893 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 19:08:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 19:08:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 18752 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 19:08:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 19:08:17 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AETn-0005Du-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:07:43 +0000 Received: from [205.158.62.59] (helo=ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AETm-0005Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 19:07:43 +0000 Received: (qmail 66808 invoked by uid 1001); 8 Nov 2002 19:07:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20021108190711.66807.qmail@iname.com> Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [62.248.214.56] by ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com with http for reino.multanen@writeme.com; Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:07:11 +0800 From: "Reino Multanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 03:07:11 +0800 Importance: high X-Originating-IP: 62.248.214.56 X-Originating-Server: ws1-8.us4.outblaze.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: RU6LWZ X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_2,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group GE OM´s, and greetings from Karelia = There is RU6LWZ now on 136.4 kHz, RST 569 . 73/Repe (73) -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28590 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 18:38:59 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 18:38:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 9396 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 16:22:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 16:22:19 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ABzL-0004gb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:28:07 +0000 Received: from [212.125.75.12] (helo=mail4.messagelabs.com) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ABzK-0004gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:28:06 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: William.Ashlock@edwards.boc.com X-Msg-Ref: server-14.tower-4.messagelabs.com!1036772875!37592 Received: (qmail 16314 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 16:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-14.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 16:27:55 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:27:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id TP3F3SK1; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:31:12 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:27:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:27:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: RE: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,INVALID_MSGID,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Jim, I think there is a Lowfer-like solutin to this problem. Seems to me that if everything is assumed to be 'ideal' or 'loss-free' including the wires, there would still have to be a TX loop antenna formed by the connections. At the instant of connection there would be radiation of 25uJ at a frequency dependent on the capacitance and inductance of the components. (See, there is no problem anyone can introduce that has no oportunity for me to put in a plug for TX loop antennas! ) Have a good, mind relaxing, weekend! Bill A >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it >had any right to.... Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the other 25uJ gone? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20160 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 18:15:34 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 18:15:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 26709 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 17:11:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 17:11:15 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ACeL-0004qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:10:29 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.42] (helo=mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ACeL-0004qX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:10:29 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([80.4.116.157]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021108171025.PUPZ3711.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: <002f01c28749$d4db4f20$9d740450@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:11:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RU6LA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group 7-8 November --------------- I ran Argo all night and took captures every 4 minutes. Here's the log (reports in brackets): 1638: RU6LA copied at 'M' 1650: Saw OH5UFO 1655: RU6LA calling OH5UFO but OH5UFO was still calling CQ 1711: Very bad local noise 1735: DL3FDO calling 1748: OH5UFO calling RU6LA 1759: Very bad local noise for more than an hour 1919: OH5UFO calling 1931: RU6LA weak. OH5UFO calling CQ 1955: RU6LA very weak 2031: OH5UFO calling 2039: M0BMU working OH5UFO 2120: RU6LA weak 2124: M0BMU calling 2136: OH5UFO calling CQ 2152: OH5UFO calling CQ 2200: PA0BWL and DL3FDO calling 2220: PA0BWL sending an 'O' report to RU6LA. DL3FDO calling 2232: OH5UFO calling CQ. DL3FDO calling using QRSS10 2240: F6BWO using QRSS30, DL3FDO QRSS10, PA0BWL QRSS3, OH5UFO QRSS3 2328: OH5UFO calling CQ 2240: OH5UFO calling CQ 0016: QRN bad 0150: Band much quieter 0332: Band even quieter 0600: Band even quieter 0705: RU6LA 10 watt beacon is a good signal until test ends at 0758 0805: G3XDV sending callsign Lots of Argo captures at: http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transcontinental/2002-3/8-9nov.htm Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21839 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 18:12:36 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 18:12:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5408 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 15:36:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 15:36:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ABJm-0004Z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from [161.53.16.179] (helo=ham2.cc.fer.hr ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ABJm-0004Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from 9a0tcp.ampr.org (ham1.cc.fer.hr [161.53.16.178]) by ham2.cc.fer.hr (8.12.6/8.12.5/Debian-1) with SMTP id gA8FhpBA016740 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:43:52 +0100 X-BBS-Msg-Type: P Date: Fri, 08 Nov 02 16:28:56 CET Message-ID: <16628@9A0TCP> From: dl8aam@9a0tcp.ampr.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DDH47 this night X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi ! just to remind you, the german weather service DWD (www.dwd.de) celebrate their 50th anniversary. For this event DDH47 is specially licenced by the german telecommunication authority to work crossband/interservice QSOs with amateur radio stations. DDH47 transmit on 147.3 kHz in CW and give a QSX in the amateur radio bands. Active (if I rememeber well...hi) from, 2230z til 0500 or 0530z also active in QRSSS for transatlantic tests. Check older messages on this list for more info. Date: 8.-9.11. QSL should be OK via bureau. 73, Tom - DL8AAM Excamples about more special crossband/interservice and special event transmissions from "commercial" utility stations to/with HAMs see on my page at: http://people.freenet.de/troesne/dl8aam.html or via startpage at http://come.to/DL8AAM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29868 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 17:54:54 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 17:54:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 26297 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 16:54:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 16:54:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ACJ6-0004mN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:48:32 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ACJ6-0004mE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:48:32 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18AByt-0006Ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:27:39 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18AByj-0000ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:27:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108154131.00a918d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 16:27:28 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <01C28737.29992A90.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: RE: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0tests=ACT_NOW,DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Andy, LF Group, At 14:57 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Can tell you come from a university background Jim, do you ask that of >applicants for courses at herts.ac? >I was asked exactly the same question when applying for Southampton Uni. in >1976. It has been doing the rounds for ages - I remember there were once the inevitable long exchanges in the letters pages of Wireless World about it. But they don't ask prospective electronics undergraduate students questions about capacitors now, in case it puts them off. The question they are now asked here is (on a good day) "Can you pay the fees?". On a bad day, it's "Can you start now, please?"...:-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12837 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 17:11:56 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 17:11:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 7315 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 17:11:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 17:11:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18ACes-0004r6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:11:02 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18ACes-0004qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:11:02 +0000 Received: from [212.1.153.222] (helo=pcuser) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18ACYR-0005Wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 17:04:24 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c28749$d070a200$de9901d4@pcuser> From: "Hugh Burnham" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C28737.29992A90.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:10:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend ... LF Activity ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sorry to disillusion you academics, but it is in Nelcon and Parker, the standard A level Physics Text book when I was at school - I have it here - P.684 ! However I would add that if you increase the values, say to 100 Volts, and 10,000uF it is very clear what happens to the extra energy when you connect the terminals ... "SPLAT !" is a good onomatopoeic term. Is anybody going to be transmitting over the weekend ? When might I hear some signals on 73 / 136 ? 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy talbot" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 2:57 PM Subject: RE: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > Can tell you come from a university background Jim, do you ask that of > applicants for courses at herts.ac? > I was asked exactly the same question when applying for Southampton Uni. in > 1976. > > Andy G4JNT > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Moritz [SMTP:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] > Sent: 2002/11/08 11:52 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > > Dear Andy, LF group, > > At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it > >had any right to.... > > Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, > loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. > You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge > will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. > Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. > But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged > capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both > capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the > other 25uJ gone? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18633 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 15:40:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 15:40:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 24639 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 15:24:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 15:24:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AAyl-0004UV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:23:27 +0000 Received: from [165.254.158.18] (helo=mail.mcf.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AAyk-0004UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 15:23:26 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (213.41.137.138) by mail.mcf.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.2a4) for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:23:35 -0500 Message-ID: <004901c2873b$257d3ce0$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C28737.29992A90.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:26:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Andy, Jim and all, This is a great question, because it tells a lot about the background of the person answering, even if the answer is "correct". The engineer will say that most of the "missing" 25 uJ will be dissipated as heat in the resistance in the connecting wire. The physicist, assuming a resistance-free wire, will talk of energy radiated from the loop in a damped oscillation. The mathemetician, assuming a perfect connection except for inductance, speaks of steady state oscillation. And the philosopher, assuming an ideal connection, finds the problem analogous to 'irresistable force vs. immovable object', and concludes that the stated conditions are inconsistent. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy talbot" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: RE: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > Can tell you come from a university background Jim, do you ask that of > applicants for courses at herts.ac? > I was asked exactly the same question when applying for Southampton Uni. in > 1976. > > Andy G4JNT > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Moritz [SMTP:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] > Sent: 2002/11/08 11:52 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > > Dear Andy, LF group, > > At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it > >had any right to.... > > Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, > loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. > You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge > will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. > Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. > But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged > capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both > capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the > other 25uJ gone? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31935 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 15:01:01 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 15:01:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 14985 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 15:00:31 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 15:00:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18AAaz-0004Pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:58:53 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18AAaz-0004Pk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:58:53 +0000 Received: from [212.1.141.198] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 18AAUZ-0004bd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 14:52:15 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:57:31 -0000 Message-ID: <01C28737.29992A90.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 14:57:28 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_PRIORITY_HIGHversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Can tell you come from a university background Jim, do you ask that of applicants for courses at herts.ac? I was asked exactly the same question when applying for Southampton Uni. in 1976. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: James Moritz [SMTP:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] Sent: 2002/11/08 11:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Dear Andy, LF group, At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it >had any right to.... Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the other 25uJ gone? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13618 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 14:49:06 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 14:49:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 22286 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:51:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:51:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A9WT-0004Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:50:09 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.116] (helo=lutetium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A9WT-0004Ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:50:09 +0000 Received: from host213-122-9-229.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.9.229] helo=jackie) by lutetium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18A9WS-0000h7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:50:08 +0000 Message-ID: <003201c2872e$2e9bc100$e5097ad5@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <001c01c28711$8b3b2c60$56947ad5@jackie> <002201c2871d$d8accd80$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:53:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: g6tmk To: Sent: 08 November 2002 11:53 Subject: LF: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend > It's easier to imagine work done in hauling out a thin piece of plastic from > between two charged plates rather than sucking out some liquid - does the > liquid oil stick between the plates like a strong surface tension ? > Hugh It might or might not, that's beyond my physics without digging out a textbook. Even if it doesn't, energy has to be expended in moving it. Steve > > > > > At a guess, the stored charge doesn't change, so the voltage will. Energy > > has to be put into the system to move the oil, therefore the stored energy > > can increase. > > > > Am I close? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31872 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 14:17:20 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 14:17:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 2010 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 13:16:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:16:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8zH-0004AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:15:51 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8zG-0004AI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:15:50 +0000 Received: (qmail 8264 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:15:15 -0000 Received: from modem-118-52-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.52.118) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:15:15 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01c28728$72240500$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <000701c28713$e15270c0$0504210a@c.scope> <005201c28723$9fbd8cc0$c12565d5@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:11:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_COST,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group You can measure viscosity by measuing the time taken for oil to drain through a tube ( at least I've always assumed that's why heating oil is graded in "seconds") I wonder if you could measure capacitance (or charge) be measuing the time taken for oil to drain out from between the vanes of a capacitor ? There are probably less messy ways of measuring it :-) Hugh PS Yes, we had a KiloVolt meter like a free-turning variable capacitor in the school physics lab I remember ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Bodin" To: Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend g6tmk wrote: > My guess is the 10uF capacitor becomes 1uF and the voltage rises to 100V. That's my guess too, but... W [stored energy] = V^2*C / 2: With oil: V=10V, C=10u => W = 10*10*10u / 2 = 500 uJ Without oil: V=100V, C=1u => W = 100*100*1u / 2 = 5000 uJ Assuming that no charge goes away with the oil, the stored energy will increase by a factor of ten. Hmm... Force * distance = energy. When gravity pulls the oil away from the plates, the oil has to fight against an electrostatic force thereby injecting energy into the capacitor, I guess... Will a charged air variable capacitor try to turn itself towards the maximum setting? :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22571 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:43:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:43:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10787 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:51:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:51:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8b3-00040v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:50:49 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8b3-00040f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:50:49 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu07.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.119]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA3dcbb27f3ba0 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:47:59 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:47:37 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > When C decreases from 10 uF to 1 uF voltage increases from 10 V to 100 V > So energy E=C*U^2/2 changes from 1e-5*10*10/2=0.5e-3 J to 1e-6*100*100/2= > 0.5e-2 J. Where did extra energy come from? To drain oil one SHOULD work! > Oil is ATRACTED to space betwin plates by electric field! Do drain it > extra energy is needed. For example the energy of gravity... So this is > a machine converted mecanical energy to electrical energy. It is known > some devises worked in such a way (Von de Graaf geneator, there is some > analogy)... Also it is known electrostatic pump, worked in oposite way... It is very similar to oil drained from capasitor, but there oil is atracted TO space betwin plates and electric energy is converted to mecanical one... Good oldfashoned phisics. I like it... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10532 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:37:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:37:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2978 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 12:36:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:36:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8MH-0003r8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:35:33 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8MG-0003qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:35:32 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu03.dialup1.infomsk.ru [212.164.45.195]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA3dcbaeee3a0e for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:32:46 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:32:24 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, James Moritz wrote: > Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, > loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. > You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge > will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. > Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. > But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged > capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both > capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the > other 25uJ gone? It is radiated or converted to heat. If there is no any losses (ideal case) 25uJ is energe of magnetic field (there should be continously oscilation if there is no disipation...) But I do not think this is analogy to drained oil... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27790 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:25:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:25:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 22958 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:36:56 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:36:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8Mt-0003rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:36:11 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8Ms-0003rC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:36:10 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:39 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:38 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:37 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:35:37 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F75@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Thread-Index: AcKHIBCZz8ZXxkSWR1iLAAfF89YO6wAAx1Iw From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2002 12:35:37.0762 (UTC) FILETIME=[57463820:01C28723] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: SV: LF: To Ponder over the weekend X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ha ha Yes, you said 25µJ per capacitor..... 73 Jan-Martin, LA8AK -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: James Moritz [mailto:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] Sendt: 8. november 2002 12:52 Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Emne: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Dear Andy, LF group, At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it >had any right to.... Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the other 25uJ gone? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26410 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 13:01:03 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 13:01:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5438 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:23:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:23:32 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A89G-0003kM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:22:06 +0000 Received: from [205.197.48.109] (helo=gemini.smart.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A89G-0003kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:22:06 +0000 Received: from dpc000 ([162.33.221.60]) by gemini.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA02550 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:22:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c28721$7351b3c0$cc28730a@direcpc.com> From: "lloyd chastant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107173202.00aab6f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3DCB1DFA.6DFC618@att.net> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 07:22:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: HGB 75 KHz in North Carolina Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I've done pretty much the same as Dex and have had similiar results..I routinely look at 77.5 and 75.0 with Argo set at QRSS10 and see how those are coming through..They seem to be copyable here fairly regular..In the evenings I often check the AM frequencies-152,163,173(all approximately)and have been hearing those lately , sometimes fairly nice.. de Lloyd W3NF Maryland FM19MH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:14 PM Subject: LF: HGB 75 KHz in North Carolina > > > James Moritz wrote: > > > > It might be worth stateside listeners monitoring levels of > > government/utility signals near 73kHz, eg. the Rugby 73.25kHz FSK, HBG time > > signal on 75kHz, DCF77 time signal on 77.5kHz, to get a handle on > > trans-atlantic conditions. > > > > > I monitored HGB some last season but never documented the results. This > was mainly due to antenna changes and the varying received signal > strengths as the tunable preamp is tuned. I think I need to dedicate an > antenna just for this purpose in order to make meaningful reports. > > I recall trying to get enough signal for "radio clock" to sync on HBG > but I don't recall ever being successful. Tonight, and even before > sunset, I have had enough signal for "radio clock" to decode and display > the time. I am presently receiving with a tuned, 3.3 meter, octagon > loop and a balanced preamp. > > W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20360 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:54:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:54:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22528 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:55:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:55:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8fd-00044P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:55:33 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8fc-00044G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:55:32 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu07.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.119]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA3dcbb3f83c44 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:54:16 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:53:54 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <005201c28723$9fbd8cc0$c12565d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > > Will a charged air variable capacitor try to turn itself towards > the maximum setting? :-) Yes, of cose! Remember electrostatic voltmeter. It is a variable capasitor with pointer and elastic someone ( I do not know how it is in English)... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16015 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:50:27 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:50:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12337 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:06:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:06:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A7pM-0003cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:01:32 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A7pL-0003cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:01:31 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18A7jg-000706-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:55:40 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18A7je-0003qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:55:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108112020.00aeef28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 11:51:38 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Andy, LF group, At 09:38 08/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it >had any right to.... Here is another conundrum along similar lines - you have two identical, loss-free 1uF capacitors, one is charged to 10V, the other is discharged. You then connect the two in parallel so the total C is now 2uF - charge will flow from the charged capacitor into the discharged capacitor. Assuming charge Q is conserved, and that Q=CV, the voltage must now be 5V. But the stored energy in a capacitor =1/2CV^2, so with the single charged capacitor, the stored energy is 1/2 x 1u x 100 = 50uJ, while with both capacitors in parallel it is only 1/2 x 2u x 25 = 25uJ. So where has the other 25uJ gone? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23320 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:35:23 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:35:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 3862 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 12:37:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:37:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8NS-0003sL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:36:46 +0000 Received: from [130.244.199.132] (helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8NS-0003sB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:36:46 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.40.196]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20021108123644.QXLC19257.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:36:44 +0100 Message-ID: <005201c28723$9fbd8cc0$c12565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <000701c28713$e15270c0$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:36:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_COST,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group g6tmk wrote: > My guess is the 10uF capacitor becomes 1uF and the voltage rises to 100V. That's my guess too, but... W [stored energy] = V^2*C / 2: With oil: V=10V, C=10u => W = 10*10*10u / 2 = 500 uJ Without oil: V=100V, C=1u => W = 100*100*1u / 2 = 5000 uJ Assuming that no charge goes away with the oil, the stored energy will increase by a factor of ten. Hmm... Force * distance = energy. When gravity pulls the oil away from the plates, the oil has to fight against an electrostatic force thereby injecting energy into the capacitor, I guess... Will a charged air variable capacitor try to turn itself towards the maximum setting? :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9762 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:24:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:24:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25590 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 12:26:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:26:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A8D6-0003ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:26:04 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A8D5-0003mK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:26:03 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu07.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.119]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA3dcbacad38fd for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:23:09 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 18:22:45 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Andrew and Group. On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Talbot Andrew wrote: > An oil filled capacitor consists of two plates separated by a dielectric > made of oil with a dielectric constant of 10. The capacitance is 10uF and > it is charged to 10V. The oil is drained, leaving air between the plates. > the capacitance falls to 1uF. Does the stored energy level change?. If so, > where did the extra energy come from or go to? This is simple - hi... When C decreases from 10 uF to 1 uF voltage increases from 10 V to 100 V So energy E=C*U^2/2 changes from 1e-5*10*10/2=0.5e-3 J to 1e-6*100*100/2= 0.5e-2 J. Where did extra energy come from? To drain oil one SHOULD work! Oil is ATRACTED to space betwin plates by electric field! Do drain it extra energy is needed. For example the energy of gravity... So this is a machine converted mecanical energy to electrical energy. It is known some devises worked in such a way (Von de Graaf geneator, there is some analogy)... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30589 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:10:38 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:10:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 6565 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 12:01:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 12:01:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A7nv-0003cC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:00:03 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A7nv-0003bw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:00:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 6446 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 11:59:25 -0000 Received: from modem-82-59-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.59.82) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 11:59:25 -0000 Message-ID: <002201c2871d$d8accd80$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <001c01c28711$8b3b2c60$56947ad5@jackie> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 11:53:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group It's easier to imagine work done in hauling out a thin piece of plastic from between two charged plates rather than sucking out some liquid - does the liquid oil stick between the plates like a strong surface tension ? Hugh > > At a guess, the stored charge doesn't change, so the voltage will. Energy > has to be put into the system to move the oil, therefore the stored energy > can increase. > > Am I close? > > Steve > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14848 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:48:26 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:48:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 28040 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:49:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:49:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A6gs-0003OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:48:42 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A6gr-0003OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:48:41 +0000 Received: (qmail 16087 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 10:48:03 -0000 Received: from modem-200-50-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.50.200) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:48:03 -0000 Message-ID: <000701c28713$e15270c0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:43:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Assuming the charge doesn't drain out with the oil, then, for the relationship Q=CV to be maintained, the voltage must rise to compensate for the loss of capacitance. My guess is the 10uF capacitor becomes 1uF and the voltage rises to 100V. I looked for the answer, upside down, at the bottom of the page ... but it wasn't there... 73 Hugh M0WYE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:38 AM Subject: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it > had any right to. Have a ponder while waiting for next QRSS symbol to come > through. > > Andy G4JNT > > -------------------------------------------- > >From Circuit Cellar magazine, Nov 2002 > > An oil filled capacitor consists of two plates separated by a dielectric > made of oil with a dielectric constant of 10. The capacitance is 10uF and > it is charged to 10V. The oil is drained, leaving air between the plates. > the capacitance falls to 1uF. Does the stored energy level change?. If so, > where did the extra energy come from or go to? > > -------------------------------------------- > > "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the > intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, > or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has > misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." > > "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is > subject to monitoring and auditing." > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12226 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:26:38 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:26:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 17707 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:26:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:26:16 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A6K6-0003EF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:25:10 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A6K6-0003E6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:25:10 +0000 Received: from host213-122-148-86.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.148.86] helo=jackie) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #15) id 18A6K5-00033O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:25:09 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c28711$8b3b2c60$56947ad5@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:28:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: Talbot Andrew To: LF Group (E-mail) Sent: 08 November 2002 09:38 Subject: LF: To Ponder over the weekend > This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it > had any right to. Have a ponder while waiting for next QRSS symbol to come > through. > > Andy G4JNT > > -------------------------------------------- > From Circuit Cellar magazine, Nov 2002 > > An oil filled capacitor consists of two plates separated by a dielectric > made of oil with a dielectric constant of 10. The capacitance is 10uF and > it is charged to 10V. The oil is drained, leaving air between the plates. > the capacitance falls to 1uF. Does the stored energy level change?. If so, > where did the extra energy come from or go to? At a guess, the stored charge doesn't change, so the voltage will. Energy has to be put into the system to move the oil, therefore the stored energy can increase. Am I close? Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7331 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:49 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 501 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:14 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A6DT-0003AF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:19 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.177] (helo=cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A6DT-0003A6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:19 +0000 Received: from modem-2.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.124.130] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18A6DR-0004ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:18 +0000 Message-ID: <003501c28711$3aed01c0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:50:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Thanks to John and Dex also W1VD and WB3ANQ for looking for my signals on 6/7 Nov. The Kp index was rather high that night ie3-4 and in my experience this too high.Our 2001 crossing was made 15 days after an X class flare and following CME-but the index was low about 1/2. There was an X flare on 31Oct but no earth facing CME. If the index drops in the next day or two I will try again,if not the next opportunity may be around 14 Nov. There is no doubt that a successful crossing requires a rare combination of events Hi. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23621 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:46 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 623 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 10:19:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 10:19:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A6Da-0003AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:26 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.177] (helo=cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A6Da-0003AJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:26 +0000 Received: from modem-2.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.124.130] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 18A6DZ-0004ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 10:18:25 +0000 Message-ID: <003701c28711$3f1db320$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <000b01c285bc$6409b9a0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <001f01c285bc$85986c60$f52cfd3e@default> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 10:24:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact > Hello Laurie > > How are the SPM19s going? > > Tracey > > Still negotiating !!! Laurie. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13990 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 09:56:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 09:56:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 6884 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 09:57:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 09:57:18 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A5s0-00031r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:56:08 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.41] (helo=mta01-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A5s0-00031i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:56:08 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.104.55]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021108095608.KBNQ9836.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:56:08 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c2870d$257f0080$376868d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:56:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: RU6LA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Good signals from Ed's 10W ERP beacon this morning. Full report of what I saw, and URL of pics, to follow. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12768 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 09:41:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 09:41:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29111 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 09:41:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 09:41:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18A5bR-0002od-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:39:01 +0000 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 18A5bR-0002oU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:39:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 28957 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 09:38:57 +0000 Received: from warlock.dstl.gov.uk (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 09:38:57 +0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CBB@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:38:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: To Ponder over the weekend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This simple puzzle caused more discussion in my office this morning than it had any right to. Have a ponder while waiting for next QRSS symbol to come through. Andy G4JNT -------------------------------------------- >From Circuit Cellar magazine, Nov 2002 An oil filled capacitor consists of two plates separated by a dielectric made of oil with a dielectric constant of 10. The capacitance is 10uF and it is charged to 10V. The oil is drained, leaving air between the plates. the capacitance falls to 1uF. Does the stored energy level change?. If so, where did the extra energy come from or go to? -------------------------------------------- "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31937 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2002 02:15:43 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 02:15:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 17902 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Nov 2002 02:15:20 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2002 02:15:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189yef-0001on-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:13:53 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.69] (helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189yee-0001oe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2002 02:13:52 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021108021501.QSBI723.host4@att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:15:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3DCB1DFA.6DFC618@att.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:14:18 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107173202.00aab6f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: HGB 75 KHz in North Carolina Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group James Moritz wrote: > > It might be worth stateside listeners monitoring levels of > government/utility signals near 73kHz, eg. the Rugby 73.25kHz FSK, HBG time > signal on 75kHz, DCF77 time signal on 77.5kHz, to get a handle on > trans-atlantic conditions. > I monitored HGB some last season but never documented the results. This was mainly due to antenna changes and the varying received signal strengths as the tunable preamp is tuned. I think I need to dedicate an antenna just for this purpose in order to make meaningful reports. I recall trying to get enough signal for "radio clock" to sync on HBG but I don't recall ever being successful. Tonight, and even before sunset, I have had enough signal for "radio clock" to decode and display the time. I am presently receiving with a tuned, 3.3 meter, octagon loop and a balanced preamp. W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21607 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 19:32:29 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 19:32:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 3858 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 18:43:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:43:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189rbS-0000La-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:42:06 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.13] (helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189rbR-0000LR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:42:05 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 39115704 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:41:34 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c2868d$4e88e3e0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> <001601c28687$aaf539e0$a7c428c3@erica> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 13:41:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Peter, > I was transmitting on what my DDS unit said was 72.400. EA1PX measured it as > 72.40031. I was transmitting from 2300 until 0012. I double-checked the captures -- nothing visible. Next time! John Andrews From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5513 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 19:03:49 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 19:03:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 13686 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 18:05:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:05:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189qxu-00006g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:14 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189qxu-00006X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:14 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-167.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.167] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189qxm-000Fam-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:07 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c28687$a56d35e0$a7c428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> <002401c2866c$b7d6e8e0$0100007f@BI57429bankinter> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:46:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz/136kHz X-band Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050308090702030709030402" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050308090702030709030402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Had a successful 73kHz/136kHz crossband with EA1PX starting at 0800 this morning. To start with Jose's signals were only readability T but improved by the time the QSO finished as shown on the attachment. 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Nov 2002 19:02:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 13259 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 18:05:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:05:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189qxx-000076-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:17 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189qxw-00006x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:16 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-167.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.167] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189qxv-000Fam-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:16 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c28687$aaf539e0$a7c428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:00:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John Andrews, W1TAG said > I watched 72.400 - 72.4015 last night from 2245 until 0230, and nothing > definite was seen. There was a weak signal approximately 0.1 Hz lower than > 72.401, but I would assume that it wasn't Laurie. > I was transmitting on what my DDS unit said was 72.400. EA1PX measured it as 72.40031. I was transmitting from 2300 until 0012. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23198 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 18:22:15 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:22:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 11388 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 17:19:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 17:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189qHj-0008MR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:17:39 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.210] (helo=cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189qHj-0008MI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:17:39 +0000 Received: from modem-37.adanedhel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.96.37] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189qHi-0007qi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:17:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c28682$a4380380$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:18:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Thanks to all who listened last night,conditions were not good. I will not transmit tonight,but will advise when things look better. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1901 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 18:05:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:05:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 9723 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Nov 2002 18:05:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 18:05:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189qxv-00006t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:15 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189qxv-00006k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:15 +0000 Received: from tnt-2-167.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.196.167] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189qxu-000Fam-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 18:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c28687$aa3c9840$a7c428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001201c28458$91f164e0$38ba7ad5@main> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:56:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: UPS batteries Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan Melia said > Hi Peter I note your replacement of the sealed batteries in the UPS with old > car batteries. The UPS will charge them correctly but the car batteries will > produce hydrogen, I believe, even on a maintenance charge. The sealed > batteries are designed not to produce hydrogen (by careful design of the > electrode sizes) unless maltreated ( then they bulge alarmingly ). I know > your shack is in an extension and hope it is well ventilated. The UPS batteries have been used to power the Decca transmitter until replaced with car batteries. The problem with these batteries is that they do not have enough capacity even though they are float charged. The charger will run the transmitter without the batteries but the hum level is high. The car batteries produce a much 'stiffer' supply and the power is higher, especially when transmitting QRS. The batteries are located in the garden shed together with the transmitter so there is inherent ventilation. The batteries bubble quite a bit and I do take the point about safety. I am considering locating them in a wooden box outside the shed. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12781 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 17:42:54 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 17:42:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 3222 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 17:43:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 17:43:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189qgG-0008TH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:43:00 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189qgG-0008T8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:43:00 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 189qeH-0004xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:40:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 189qeF-00010e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:40:55 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107173202.00aab6f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 17:40:54 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <000f01c28682$a4380380$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 17:18 07/11/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks to all who listened last night,conditions were not good. >I will not transmit tonight,but will advise when things look better. >73 Laurie. Dear LF Group, It might be worth stateside listeners monitoring levels of government/utility signals near 73kHz, eg. the Rugby 73.25kHz FSK, HBG time signal on 75kHz, DCF77 time signal on 77.5kHz, to get a handle on trans-atlantic conditions. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5742 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 15:14:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 15:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 13702 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Nov 2002 15:15:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 15:15:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189oJJ-0007we-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:11:09 +0000 Received: from [207.155.198.79] (helo=darius.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189oJI-0007wV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:11:08 +0000 Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gA7FB5u16201 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:11:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id KAA14221; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:11:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c28670$17041d80$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> <002401c2866c$b7d6e8e0$0100007f@BI57429bankinter> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Jose, Laurie, >but captured one time as "XQC", on 72400.90 Hz - QRSS120. Then W1VD and I (and possibly WB3ANQ) may have seen a fragment of that signal. I was expecting something closer to 72401.0. At my QTH, there was one very clear dot on the 00:00 UTC screen, and some unidentifiable stuff on both sides. At 0200, I noted that a line of activity could be seen as I walked into the shack. NG if you stared at it. You had to use what the telescope guys call "averted vision." Nothing readable, in any case. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19035 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 14:52:00 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 14:52:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 26786 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Nov 2002 14:51:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 14:51:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189nxY-0007r2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:48:40 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189nxX-0007qt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:48:39 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026192.nexo.es [195.235.26.192]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA01927 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:48:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002401c2866c$b7d6e8e0$0100007f@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 15:01:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id PAA01927 Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John: I captured last night T/A signals and G3LDO transmitted "LDO" on 72400.31Hz-QRSS60 and the other station, I assume Laurie, but captured one time as "XQC", on 72400.90 Hz - QRSS120. 73, José - EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night > I watched 72.400 - 72.4015 last night from 2245 until 0230, and nothing > definite was seen. There was a weak signal approximately 0.1 Hz lower than > 72.401, but I would assume that it wasn't Laurie. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11988 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 14:21:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 14:21:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 2226 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 14:10:32 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 14:10:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189nKg-0007jS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:08:30 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189nKd-0007jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:08:27 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021107140909.GTFM1215.host3@att.net> for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3DCA73F4.19305B3@att.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:08:52 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John Andrews wrote: > > I watched 72.400 - 72.4015 last night from 2245 until 0230, and nothing > definite was seen. I ran all night watching the same window. Nothing seen. QRN was noticeable but not real bad. Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11018 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 13:30:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 13:30:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20656 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 12:04:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 12:04:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189lKy-0007Me-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:00:40 +0000 Received: from [212.164.44.2] (helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189lKx-0007Lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 12:00:39 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu07.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.119]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA3dca556f141e for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:58:39 +0600 (OS) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 18:58:16 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <000701c2864f$4d3a4d00$646068d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Russian tests Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_06_12,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_PINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi, Group. There is some info from RU6LA. Last night Ed has 'M' copy G3AQC on 73 kHz. He used 1500 m Baveradge antenna. Also he had some problem with TX antenna due to strong snow. Hope TX ANT will be repaired today and Ed'll transmit on 137 this night. Also I often see some carier on 137.390 kHz. Some times I see it is on/off but no any reasonable coding. I wonder what can it be? 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14288 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 12:33:28 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 12:33:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 15401 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 12:00:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 12:00:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189lKH-0007Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:59:57 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.20] (helo=dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189lKH-0007LU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:59:57 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx10.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 22935761 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:59:26 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c28655$220525a0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CB1@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:59:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: ARRL Freqeuncy Measurement Tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Andy, > Did anyone take part in the ARRL Frequency Measurement tests early this > morning ? Yes, but I have the opposite problem -- I'm too close! The 20 and 15 meter signals were pretty weak. There was a lot of Doppler spread on the 40, 20 and 15 meter transmissions, and even 80 was fairly broad. Interestingly, things were a lot cleaner the night before. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19454 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 12:26:27 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 12:26:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 10349 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 11:57:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 11:57:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189lGK-0007Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:55:52 +0000 Received: from [209.225.8.19] (helo=mx09.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189lGK-0007KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:55:52 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by mx09.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 22874689 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 06:55:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c28654$8fbe8d80$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:55:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I watched 72.400 - 72.4015 last night from 2245 until 0230, and nothing definite was seen. There was a weak signal approximately 0.1 Hz lower than 72.401, but I would assume that it wasn't Laurie. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10669 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 11:47:47 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 11:47:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 14704 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 11:22:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 11:22:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189kek-0007Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:17:02 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.42] (helo=mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189kej-0007Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:17:01 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.100]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021107111700.VIUU3711.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:17:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c2864f$4d3a4d00$646068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:17:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Russian tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I ran Argo all night and saw Ed's signals just once. Here's the log (reports in brackets): Monitoring from 1800UTC 6 Nov to 0830 7 Nov. QRN quite bad for the time of year.Also bad Luxembourg effect. 2153: QRSS3, F6BWO calling CQ ('O'). 2215: QRSS10, "WX"? ('O'), followed by QRSS3, "G3AQC ... RU6L.." ('O' fading to 'M' by 2232 and disappearing at 2232: before the callsign ended). 2241: Two stations using QRSS3, both 'O': One was so blurred that I could not read anything. The other was IK5ZPV. 2249: Very strong QRSS3 station - AGC action prevented callsign being readable. 2350: Luxembourg effect disappeared. QRN still bad. 0055: QRN peaks almost continuous. 0400: Another peak of QRN. 0440: Another peak of QRN. Something seen on 137.7kHz but too much noise. 0548: QRN reduced. 0824: Weak QRSS3 ('M' to 'T'), probably IZ5ZPV. Some Argo captures can be seen at http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transcontinental/2002-3/ Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 601 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 10:59:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 10:59:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 6051 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Nov 2002 12:03:39 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 12:03:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189kMB-000797-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:57:51 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189kMB-00078y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:57:51 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 189k4q-00023X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:39:56 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 189k4f-00010C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:39:45 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021107102205.00af6248@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 10:39:44 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: LF: 73kHz/136kHz Last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear LF Group, I transmitted on 71.752kHz between about 1900 and 2100 last night - at least it proves the TX, loading coil etc. is still in working order! ERP would have been around 100mW. No response was seen on 137.7kHz during this period. Afterwards, I had a CW QSO with G3AQC; Laurie was 589 with me and undoubtedly has the strongest signal on the band at the moment. Then I changed frequency to 137.7kHz, and eventually saw tuning-up type signals from RU6LA, followed by a single CQ call from Ed at around 2240. I replied to this, but no further signals were seen. Thanks for the reports, Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31292 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 09:41:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 09:41:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6149 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Nov 2002 10:44:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 10:44:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189j6S-0006q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:37:32 +0000 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 189j6R-0006q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:37:32 +0000 Received: (qmail 1712 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 09:37:22 +0000 Received: from warlock.dstl.gov.uk (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 09:37:22 +0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9CB1@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 09:36:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: LF: ARRL Freqeuncy Measurement Tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Did anyone take part in the ARRL Frequency Measurement tests early this morning ? The 3.5 and 7 MHz transmissions were clearly audible at my QTH, but unfortunately not the 14MHz or 21MHz ones. Managed to determine the frequencies of each to within 0.05Hz accuarcy, but that of course is subject to any ionosheric Doppler shift - but both signals did seem specularly quite 'clean' Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15279 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 00:24:33 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 00:24:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 24962 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 23:23:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 23:23:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189ZVt-00058O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:23:09 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.85] (helo=mailout11.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189ZVt-00058F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:23:09 +0000 Received: from fwd10.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 189ZVs-0003GV-00; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 00:23:08 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.53.3]) by fwd10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 189ZVU-1r64C9C; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:22:44 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c2859d$345153e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <001501c285a0$8f958e80$09dc9384@jka> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 00:22:44 +0100 Message-ID: <189ZVU-1r64C9C@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: LF: RU6LA/M0BMU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050600090508010809040001" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050600090508010809040001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Ed, hi Jim, saw u on screen. see attachment. Ed, ur signs are underlined by A0. guess it is the driver output. do you key the PA and all other stages of the tx are driven continuously ? regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------050600090508010809040001 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="RU6LA.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RU6LA.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CACeAiMDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 23:07:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28936 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 23:07:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 23:07:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189ZFo-00054t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:06:32 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189ZFn-00054k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:06:31 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-151.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.151] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189ZFm-0004ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:06:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c285e9$23037ae0$97ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c2859d$345153e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <3DC98414.FE57A5C3@att.net> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:05:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz T/A Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dexter McIntyre W4DEX said > I'll we watching the 72.4000 to 72.4015 window tonight. Presently all > is clear within that range. QRN here is now moderate from a front off > the coast but hopefully will subside after dark. I have been out this evening so missed the start of the fun I am transmitting now 'LDO' on 72.4000 at 2300UTC. I will be on until about midnight. I have a tentitive LF crossband sked with EA1PX in the morning around 0800. I will be on 71.7kHHz and Jose on 137.702kHz. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2427 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 22:21:07 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 22:21:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17456 invoked by uid 10001); 6 Nov 2002 23:25:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 23:25:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189YWe-0004xG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:19:52 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189YWe-0004x7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 22:19:52 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.209.205]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021106221951.GDYH21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:19:51 +0000 Message-ID: <006001c285e2$dd252f60$cdd1fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:21:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73KHz tonite. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Horrible noises tonight on 73, and even Lauries signal not great. Followed by G0BMU, JPEG attached. Should be ready to test for radiation this weekend, if only with hand speed Morse. 73, Ian MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13710 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 21:49:20 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 21:49:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 28784 invoked by uid 10001); 6 Nov 2002 22:52:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 22:52:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189Y14-0004rT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:47:14 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.171] (helo=cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189Y13-0004rK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:47:13 +0000 Received: from modem-120.south-carolina.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.91.120] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189Y12-0001KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:47:13 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c285df$223512e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:53:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz T/A Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John and Dex, Nothing heard from RU6LA,so I will start earlier than intended,say in 20 mins ie 22:00 UTC.Should be dark over there I guess.Will run until about 06:00 tomorrow. Freq. 72.401kHz, QRSS 120 sending only AQC repeated. Thanks and good wishes. For John Davies, I am also not too keen on conditions at the moment but will check tomorrow and advise. Next possible window about 14 Nov. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11271 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 21:06:39 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 21:06:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3127 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 21:05:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 21:05:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189XME-0004gw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:05:02 +0000 Received: from [166.82.1.68] (helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189XMD-0004gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:05:01 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20021106210543.MBJG796.host3@att.net> for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 16:05:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3DC98414.FE57A5C3@att.net> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:05:24 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c2859d$345153e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz T/A Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I'll we watching the 72.4000 to 72.4015 window tonight. Presently all is clear within that range. QRN here is now moderate from a front off the coast but hopefully will subside after dark. W4DEX Laurie Mayhead wrote: > > Hi John and All, > I am not entirely convinced about condx for tonight, > however its worth a try.Hope you will be able to listen/look. > Freq 72.401kHz, Mode QRSS 120sec elements. > Start time 22:30 finish 07:00 UTC. > 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28700 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 21:05:37 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 21:05:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 18659 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189XLM-0004gL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:04:08 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189XLL-0004gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:04:07 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h228182.nexo.es [195.235.228.182]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA18264 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:04:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <003201c285d8$06c689a0$3a1cebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001b01c285cf$3e4c2fa0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:01:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id WAA18264 Subject: LF: Re: 73 kHz, Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Laurie and all: I didn´t see any signal on 71.750 KHz. I´ll try again at 22.30, perhaps there will be better conditions. 73, José- EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:59 PM Subject: LF: 73 kHz, Tonight > Hi Jose, > Yes transmitting on 71.75 QRSS10 19:00 to 19:45 > going to QRSS 30 from 20:00 73 Laurie > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16475 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 19:55:08 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 19:55:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 21585 invoked by uid 10001); 6 Nov 2002 20:58:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 20:58:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189WEz-0004Xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:53:29 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.172] (helo=cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189WEz-0004Xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:53:29 +0000 Received: from modem-77.aratar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.121.77] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189WEy-0005iI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:53:28 +0000 Message-ID: <001b01c285cf$3e4c2fa0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 19:59:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 kHz, Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jose, Yes transmitting on 71.75 QRSS10 19:00 to 19:45 going to QRSS 30 from 20:00 73 Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3996 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 19:29:25 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 19:29:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 17382 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 19:28:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 19:28:59 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189VqO-0004TJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:28:04 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189VqN-0004TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:28:03 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h028058.nexo.es [195.235.28.58]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA02795 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:28:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001201c285ca$9a15c080$3a1cebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <000b01c285bc$6409b9a0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 20:27:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id UAA02795 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all: Is Laurie on the air? 73, José-EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Moritz" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:34 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact > > > > Dear LF Group, > > > > I hope to join in the 73kHz fun and games tonight, assuming everything is > > still in working order... I will fit myself in somewhere near 71.75kHz > with > > QRSS. > > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > > 73 de M0BMU > > > > Hi Jim and all, > Just to make things clear I am going to use 72.401 for the T/A attempt.You > are very welcome to fit in close to this freq. Confusion probably due to > choice of 71.75 for attempt with RU6LA earlier this evening. > Hope all now clear. 73 Laurie. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32588 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:52:44 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:52:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 616 invoked by uid 10001); 6 Nov 2002 18:56:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 18:56:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189UJR-0004JV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:49:57 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.42] (helo=mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189UJQ-0004JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:49:56 +0000 Received: from default ([62.253.44.245]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021106174744.GEFJ3711.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@default> for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:47:44 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c285bc$85986c60$f52cfd3e@default> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <000b01c285bc$6409b9a0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:47:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Laurie How are the SPM19s going? Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11084 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:40:01 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:40:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 12389 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:39:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:39:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189U8P-0004Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:38:33 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.177] (helo=cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189U8O-0004Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:38:32 +0000 Received: from modem-25.aratar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.121.25] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189U8N-0004kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:38:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c285bc$6409b9a0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 17:44:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:34 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact > Dear LF Group, > > I hope to join in the 73kHz fun and games tonight, assuming everything is > still in working order... I will fit myself in somewhere near 71.75kHz with > QRSS. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > Hi Jim and all, Just to make things clear I am going to use 72.401 for the T/A attempt.You are very welcome to fit in close to this freq. Confusion probably due to choice of 71.75 for attempt with RU6LA earlier this evening. Hope all now clear. 73 Laurie. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6854 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:34:28 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 7182 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:33:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:33:54 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189U3K-0004D1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:33:18 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189U3K-0004Cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:33:18 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h025199.nexo.es [195.235.25.199]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA08862 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:33:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <005401c285ba$908f0ae0$c719ebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:33:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id SAA08862 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jim and Group: Will you transmit for T/A test or for possible 73/137 crossband QSO? 73, José, EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:34 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact > Dear LF Group, > > I hope to join in the 73kHz fun and games tonight, assuming everything is > still in working order... I will fit myself in somewhere near 71.75kHz with > QRSS. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6933 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:03:47 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:03:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 10279 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:03:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:03:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189TZ9-00046e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:02:07 +0000 Received: from [206.173.118.93] (helo=uhura.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189TZ8-00046V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 17:02:06 +0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gA6H24h01314 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA24371; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:02:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004b01c285b6$6abb5840$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:03:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Jim, > I hope to join in the 73kHz fun and games tonight, assuming everything is > still in working order... I will fit myself in somewhere near 71.75kHz with > QRSS. Unfortunately, due to the 2 Hz BW of the ARGO 120 sec screen, I'll probably not see you! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6461 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 17:01:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 17:01:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 20582 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 16:44:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 16:44:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189TFN-00041L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:41:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189TFN-00041C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 16:41:41 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 189RGd-0007Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:34:51 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 189RGT-00046J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:34:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021106141503.00a91878@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:34:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <000a01c2859d$35332860$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear LF Group, I hope to join in the 73kHz fun and games tonight, assuming everything is still in working order... I will fit myself in somewhere near 71.75kHz with QRSS. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6046 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 14:57:40 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 14:57:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 1406 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 13:57:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 13:57:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189QeM-0003Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:18 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.19] (helo=cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189QeM-0003Zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:18 +0000 Received: from modem-97.anadune.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.106.97] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189QeL-0003kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c2859d$345153e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:50:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz T/A Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi John and All, I am not entirely convinced about condx for tonight, however its worth a try.Hope you will be able to listen/look. Freq 72.401kHz, Mode QRSS 120sec elements. Start time 22:30 finish 07:00 UTC. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8263 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 14:27:44 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 14:27:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 20032 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 14:26:42 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 14:26:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189R7k-0003is-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:25:40 +0000 Received: from [206.173.118.93] (helo=uhura.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189R7j-0003ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 14:25:39 +0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gA6EPah15873 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:25:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id JAA17740; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:25:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c285a0$8f958e80$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c2859d$345153e0$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:26:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz T/A Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie, > Freq 72.401kHz, Mode QRSS 120sec elements. > Start time 22:30 finish 07:00 UTC. I can commit to 2230 - 0230, but will have other uses for the receiver after that (unless things are going REALLY well!) John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11502 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 13:56:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 13:56:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 2008 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 13:57:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 13:57:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189QeO-0003a6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:20 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.19] (helo=cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189QeO-0003Zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:20 +0000 Received: from modem-97.anadune.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.106.97] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 189QeN-0003kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 13:55:19 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c2859d$35332860$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 13:59:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz contact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Ed, I confirm that I will call you on 71.75kHz QRSS 10 from 19:00UTC and QRSS 30 from 20:00UTC. I will listen for your transmissions on 137.7kHz QRSS3 (or QRSS1). Many thanks and best wishes. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29059 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 10:40:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 10:40:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 12945 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 10:42:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 10:42:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189NcR-00035S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:41:07 +0000 Received: from [195.37.42.2] (helo=FHAMWEN.fh-amberg-weiden.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189NcQ-00035J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 10:41:06 +0000 Received: from fh-amberg-weiden.de (kp.fh-amberg-weiden.de [195.37.42.59]) by FHAMWEN.fh-amberg-weiden.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id LAA09849 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:07:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3DC8EF21.417331CB@fh-amberg-weiden.de> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:29:53 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6lpin_Thomas?= Organization: FH-Amberg-Weiden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by FHAMWEN.fh-amberg-weiden.de id LAA09849 Subject: LF: Introduction of a new station Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear LF-Group! Having read all your interesting discussions since mid 1999 and now being active on lf again I´d like to introduce myself to the group. My name is Thomas "Tom" Koelpin. In 1966 I got my license with the callsign DK1IS at the age of 17. From the beginning I´ve been QRV mostly in CW on the HF-bands with the usual periods of reduced activity due to study, job and family. Now I´m married and we have two sons, both currently students. Since 1981 we have lived in Amberg, a town in Eastarn Bavaria, about 60 km east of Nuremberg, locator JN59WK. After 17 years of working in the electrical industry I changed to the newly Amberg University of Applied Sciences in 1998 as a Professor of Electrical Engineering. In early 1999 DK1IS was the first lf-station in Eastarn Bavaria, then with a loop antenna covering the garden and half of our terrace house. In spite of this I had a lot of nice contacts, mostly regional, the ODX was about 530 km. In 2001 we changed homes, it´s a terrace house again but with wonderful neighbours, much more space in the backyard and incredible low ground resistance ... After one month of fresh activity ODX was raised to 1540 km thanks Reino, OH5UFO. I´d be glad to work all your famous calls in the next future! Rig here: HF: TS-950SD from Kenwood LF: Receiver RX 1001, Exciter EX 1001, both from Hagenuk Exciter running at 136 kHz at present, will be changed to 13,6 MHz with additional divider-by-100 to reach 1-Hz-steps on lf Homemade MOSFET-PA 2xBUK416 push-pull class AB, transformer coupled, 200 W RF max. at 12 V DC (was planned for portable use ...) Antennas: Vertical helix, 8 m for 7 - 30 MHz Marconi-T, 11m high, 33 m top load with 4 wires, 3 m wide for lf and hf, C = 660 pF, R = 24 Ohms, measured at 136 kHz Antennas remote selected and fed from the shack via 3 vacuum relais and 2 lines of RG 213, 25 m each. Couplers: HF: Harris RF-615B in the arbour ("tuning house") LF: Two Hagenuk-mf-variometer tuners 120 - 550 uH, one piece in the shack for fine tuning the lf band (combined with PA), one piece with ferrite autotransformer input in the arbour for coarse tuning with additional homemade honeycomb loading coil, L = 1,75 mH, Q = 540. Ground: 3 bare copper wires 6 m, buried 20 cm below the lawn with ground rods 1 m at each end + 2 ground rods 3 m + mains ground + water pipe system + all metal stuctures at the terrace side of the house. For further informations and a picture of DK1IS please have a look at www.qrz.com Vy 73, good luck for all of you es hpe to cuagn on lf! Tom, DK1IS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29688 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 09:29:36 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 09:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 29105 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 09:28:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 09:28:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189MSn-0002tD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:27:05 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189MSn-0002t4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:27:05 +0000 Received: from host213-123-56-191.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.123.56.191] helo=dave) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 189MSm-0001Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:27:04 +0000 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:28:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3DC8E0A6.7843.A2DEC7@localhost> In-reply-to: <129414852569.20021105150651@dx.ru> References: <43.14687d4c.2af8fd04@aol.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Description: Mail message body Subject: Re: LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.9 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group On 5 Nov 2002 at 15:06, Ed Lesnichy wrote: > I am not sure, that I can hear 100w/dipol CW on 40Í from Europe at > the night on my 160m Quad and during the next weekend's contest > (I have noticed it in time CQ WW SSB, listening Europe on 3el full size 40m > beam from another QTH) I remind, that up to Europe from me abt 2000-3600 kms > But I plan to make the good 40m aerial on a Machta in the future Well I can work quite easily into Russia on 40m CW with my K2 running 5W into a long wire, so don't dismiss it. Next weekend's contest is the OK/OM contest, not sure how much this will make 40m difficult. CQWW SSB of course was two weeks ago. Regret I shall not be listening, the rig is still packed away but hope to resurrect it soon. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13700 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 09:24:16 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 09:24:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 5969 invoked by uid 10001); 6 Nov 2002 09:28:11 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 09:28:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189LSl-0002kK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:22:59 +0000 Received: from [80.68.3.204] (helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 189LSk-0002kB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:22:59 +0000 Received: (qmail 16546 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 11:22:56 +0300 Received: from ed.dx (10.0.1.11) by gw.dx with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 11:22:56 +0300 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:23:41 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60q) Personal Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <70487874435.20021106112341@dx.ru> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Nov 6-10 UA6-activity #2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_THEBATversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello LF_Group! I take with myself Cushcraft R7000. I will be RX therefore and QSX 7024 in night time (3533 primary), but antenna-switchboard is not present. Today there was a first snow, -3 C - winter began! QRN is SK ??? At 13z I leave to a Machta. 73! Ed RU6LA ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27231 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 07:20:52 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 07:20:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 18603 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2002 07:19:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2002 07:19:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 189KS2-0002cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:18:10 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 189KS2-0002cM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:18:10 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:17:33 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:17:33 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:17:33 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:17:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:17:33 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F5E@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: D5142 Thread-Index: AcKFNynFHPxle6GIT++SmfcvusNwdwALUTjg From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2002 07:17:33.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[930BC0C0:01C28564] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080508050307030107040503" Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080508050307030107040503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Here is the small 6kB file showing the circuit diagram for the modification. The board "S45035-D5142-.."(Ausgangsteil) has a simple BJT product detector and BFO. The BFO frequency is tuned with 2250pF and it is shifted by S4, possibly shifting it 1.85 below and above 100kHz as the switch is set to left or right. When the 250pF is grounded it is LOW and when it has the two external capacitors (above the switch on the front) in series it is HIGH. The unmarked capacitors above the switch behind the front are 25pF styroflex and 25pf air trimmer, I measured 41pF, but don't always rely on the instrument, and to the calculation you may add some 50pF for the PTFE-cable. Remove all plates and screws and when you still can't find a way to start modifications, you should read the instructions, Chapter 4, MAINTENANCE - only to discover that you can just as well put back some of the screws again and remove the upper unbrako type screws instead - to slide the upper unit backwards. It was a fight to remove the front plate, but it went after all. Careful with all those terribly small 2.5mm screws, nuts and washers! First I thought of a capacitor, but it must be small enough and isolated from ground behind the front plate. A better idea is a varicap diode (BB112 or BB130), but diode must be shorted for USB, it demanded a potmeter with an NC-switch and they are rare, so I decided use a switch with 4 positions instead. An alternative is to forward bias the varicap as a switching type. Mounted 3 trimmers and fixed value capacitors in sort of dead-bug style (45° angle backwards)on a bracket with pcb laminate where the old capacitors had been. The 4 positions are now: 1. Shorted coax cable as earlier CCW (LEFT) with 1850Hz pitch for 80Hz filter. 2. 470pf+270pf + 100pf trimmer - to tune one sideband with 500-800Hz pitch 3. 56pf + 100pF trimmer, to tune the opposite sideband with 500-800Hz pitch 4. 22pF + 20pf trimmer (or 10pf fixed and 40pf trimmer) for CW (RIGHT) as before used a six position switch, but couldn't think of the need to use more than 4 positions, Didn't find any small shiches with long shaft, so the nut must protrude through the front plate, so the hole must be widened a little for the nut. Believe the audio level is terribly high, +1dBm/600 ohm is quite a lot, and little margin for overload hope you understood it, otherwise I'll have to write it in in German or Norwegian and let Dick PAØSE translate it. 73, Jan_Martin LA8AK@Online.no (in JO38XC) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ NOTE: Because of heavy spamming now applying eremove.exe, please avoid odd titles! --------------080508050307030107040503 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="D2006_5142.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="D2006_5142.gif" R0lGODdhvwPPAvcAAAAAAP///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Dz8EMUQRRySxRBNPRDFFFVdksUUXX4QxRhlnpLFGG2/EMUcdUXfksUcffwQySCGHJLJII49E Mkkll2SySSefhDJKKaekskorr8QySy235LJLL78EM0wxxySzTDPPRDNNNddks00334QzTjnn pLNOO+/EM0899z7ks08//wQ0UEEHJbRQQw9FNFFFF2W0UUcfhTRSSSeltFJLL8U0U0035bRT Tz8FNVRRRyW1VFNPRTVVVVdltTRVV1+FNVZZZ6W1VltvxTVXXXfltVdffwU2WGGHJbZYY49F Nllll2W2WWefhTZaaaeltlprLa/FNlttt+W2W2+/BTdcccclt1xzz0U3XXXXZbddd9+FN155 56W3XnvvxTdffSn35bdff/8FOGCBBya4YIMPRjhhhRdmuGGHH4Y4Yoknprhiiy/GOGONNyXm uGOPPwY5ZJFHJrlkk09GOWWVV2a5ZZdfhjlmmWemuWabb8Y5JGedd+a5Z59/BjpooYcmumij j0Y6aaWXZrppp5+GOmqpp6YwIAA7 --------------080508050307030107040503-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12070 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 20:12:56 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 20:12:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 3993 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 19:12:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 19:12:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18996m-0001Z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:11:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18996l-0001Yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:11:27 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 18994m-0006qw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:09:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18994j-0006J4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:09:22 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105175108.00a98498@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:53:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <004901c281e8$7b4c7800$b1a3edc2@oemuser> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: Loop preamplifier Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dear Urban, LF Group, At 21:51 01/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: >The following items have been changed: > >The 2N3819:s are replaced by high current FET:s BF246C (the same pinout). >R3 and R4 are decreased from 2.2k to 270ohms >The source lead in each FET is broken up and 150 ohm (see below though) in >parallel with 0.1uF are inserted. >The leads between the drains of the FET:s to the bases of the 2N2222:s are >broken up and 47k in parallell with 0.1 uF are inserted. >R5 is decreased from 1k to 180 ohms. > As has been discussed on the reflector before, there are a number of design flaws in the G3LNP preamp design - Urban's mods deal with the problem of the loosely specified Idss and mismatch between the input FETS, and the low bias current in the output follower - a further problem is the way the output followers are biased. At DC the 2 emitters are effectively connected together via the output transformer. In order to get equal current in each output transistor, the base-emitter voltages must be exactly the same. A small mismatch in Vbe will cause a large change in Ic; eg. a 20mV mismatch will result in a roughly 2:1 ratio in the collector currents, 60mV will result in 10:1 ratio. Since the base voltages are determined by the FET characteristics, even if it is possible to set up the FET bias for exactly equal voltages on the output transistor bases, and select output transistors with accurately matched Vbe, a few degrees of temperature change will cause the collector currents to drift severely. In practice this means that the amplifier will always be working with one output transistor effectively cut off, so it will actually be working as a single-ended amplifier instead of a balanced push-pull amplifier. The 47k resistors in series with the output transistor bases that Urban has added will go some way to improving this situation, but a better way is to do the following: Remove R5 and C4 and connect the centre tap of the transformer to ground. Then break the connection between each emitter lead and the transformer, and insert a resistor of, say, 330R bypassed by a 100n or larger capacitor in series with each emitter. Now, the two output transistors are independently biased, and will have fairly accurately matched currents provided the FET drain voltages are within about +/- 1V of each other. With the FET bias set for 6V on each drain, the emitter current will be about 16mA in each transistor. Having the output stage better balanced should reduce the distortion. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22087 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 19:23:46 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 19:23:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 18525 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 19:22:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 19:22:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1899HC-0001cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:22:14 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1899HB-0001cX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:22:14 +0000 Received: from host213-122-146-91.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.146.91] helo=jackie) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1899HA-0007QJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 19:22:13 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c28501$07c66820$5b927ad5@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002701c284f6$d5979ea0$045bfea9@RSGB613192> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:24:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: IEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.6 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy talbot To: Sent: 05 November 2002 18:11 Subject: LF: Re: IEE > By active participation I trust you allow for those who write software for > the so called and decried 'automatic' modes. All those individuals who > designed the packet system, Pactor and closer to home, Jason, are true > radio amateurs, even though their modes are pureley computer ones > > Andy G4JNT Thats a very fair comment - I think what I said came over wrongly - always a problem for me, more so in text modes. I don't wish to judge or criticise what others do, that's a good thing about amateur radio - everyone can participate in their own way. What I meant was that it matters to me, and I think I might be in a shrinking minority. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19450 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 18:12:58 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 18:12:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 9417 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 18:12:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 18:12:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1898BA-0001QV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:11:56 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1898B9-0001QM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:11:55 +0000 Received: from [212.1.140.107] (helo=RSGB613192) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 189851-0007w9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 18:05:35 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c284f6$d5979ea0$045bfea9@RSGB613192> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:11:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: IEE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group By active participation I trust you allow for those who write software for the so called and decried 'automatic' modes. All those individuals who designed the packet system, Pactor and closer to home, Jason, are true radio amateurs, even though their modes are pureley computer ones Andy G4JNT ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Thompson To: Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: LF: IEE > Finally got round to reading it, I imagine some professionals found it very > interesting - t's a testimony to the inventiveness and productivity of > enthusiasts. I was interested to see that I'm not the only one who feels that > amateur contacts should include some element of active participation by the > operator. One thought occurred to me - with QRSS we've come full circle. As I > understand it, Morse code was designed to be printed out on paper tape and > decoded by eye. > > Steve > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25269 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 17:35:02 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 17:35:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8770 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 17:34:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 17:34:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1897ZQ-0001Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:32:56 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1897ZQ-0001Il-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:32:56 +0000 Received: from host213-122-68-64.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.68.64] helo=there) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1897ZP-0005wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 17:32:55 +0000 From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:33:48 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Subject: LF: IEE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Finally got round to reading it, I imagine some professionals found it very interesting - t's a testimony to the inventiveness and productivity of enthusiasts. I was interested to see that I'm not the only one who feels that amateur contacts should include some element of active participation by the operator. One thought occurred to me - with QRSS we've come full circle. As I understand it, Morse code was designed to be printed out on paper tape and decoded by eye. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19220 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 16:42:25 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 16:42:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 16083 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:41:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:41:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895o7-0000nY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:59 +0000 Received: from [194.247.47.231] (helo=mailout.zetnet.co.uk ident=mail) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895o7-0000nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:59 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1895o6-0005aG-00 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:58 +0000 Received: from a7j7r2 (bts-0953.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.51.185]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id gA5Fdu412773 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:39:56 GMT Message-ID: <004401c284e1$af7ce0a0$b933f7c2@a7j7r2> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:40:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: IEE HF2003 Conference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group As well as: 2. HF in 2003 c. Amateur radio at HF I note also: 4. Detailed Scope g. Related Systems and Techniques i. VLF - MF services, systems and techniques Regards, John Rabson G3PAI Editor Cave Radio and Electronics Journal ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W Gould" Cc: "HF. Committee@rsgb. org. uk" ; "Ian Poole, G3YWX" Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:45 AM Subject: LF: IEE HF2003 Conference > A "Call for Papers" for the next IEE Conference on HF Radio Systems and > Techniques (HF2003) has recently been announced (see > http://conferences.iee.org/HF2003/). Interestingly, the "scope" of the > Conference includes "Amateur Radio at HF" that gives us another, and perhaps > even better, opportunity to promote amateur radio following Andy Talbot's, > G4JNT, well received paper at the recent IEE conference, "Getting the Most > Out of the Radio Spectrum". > > Ian Poole, G3YWX, brought this whole matter to the attention of the RSGB > during the recent HF & IOTA International Convention. After discussion as to > the best way forward the RSGB President Bob Whelan, G3PJT, asked me if I > would raise awareness and co-ordinate a response from the RSGB amateur > community in order to maximise the impact that Amateur Radio we can make at > the Conference. > > Thus, I would be grateful for those who think that they might have something > to offer would have a look at the website and drop me an e-mail with their > ideas. I am not intending to add another layer of bureaucracy to the IEE's > process, but rather provide some consistency and integration between the > amateur related experimental work that is submitted. For those who need it, > some assistance in drafting an 'attractive' "Synopsis". > > Given a normally tight programme we may only get a few papers accepted, so > we want to make sure that we can gain the maximum impact! > > Regards > > John Gould, G3WKL > g3wkl@btinternet.com > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29544 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:50:24 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:50:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28649 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:37:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895xQ-0000yI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:49:36 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.14] (helo=smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895xQ-0000y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:49:36 +0000 Received: from tnt-13-236.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.22.236] helo=erica) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1895xM-0000tS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:49:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c284e2$eac2b760$ec1686d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> <002901c2832e$3f0ac580$0696ffbe@veronique> <001101c28358$6086c180$4a676ec3@cestag> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:48:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC said >The QSO I've made with OH5UFO was very fine, good signals both side, a great surprise for me to be >received in Finland, over more than 2100 Km path, in spite of my little ERP. Evidently the propagation was very good ! This is a very good achievment and shows just what can be done with a very small antenna. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32718 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:48:36 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:48:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27220 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:34:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:34:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895uf-0000vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:46:45 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895ue-0000vW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:46:44 +0000 Received: from host213-1-190-28.btinternet.com ([213.1.190.28] helo=presario-1920) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1895ud-0004Ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:46:44 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:50:51 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <004401c284e1$af7ce0a0$b933f7c2@a7j7r2> Importance: Normal Subject: LF: RE: Re: IEE HF2003 Conference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Yes, I intended that we should be able to offer papers from our amateur work for more elements than the one that expilicity mentioned Amateur Radio, hence the posting to this reflector! 73 John, G3WKL > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of John Rabson > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 15:41 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: IEE HF2003 Conference > > > As well as: > > 2. HF in 2003 > > c. Amateur radio at HF > > I note also: > > 4. Detailed Scope > > g. Related Systems and Techniques > > i. VLF - MF services, systems and techniques > > Regards, > John Rabson G3PAI > Editor > Cave Radio and Electronics Journal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W Gould" > Cc: "HF. Committee@rsgb. org. uk" ; "Ian Poole, > G3YWX" > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:45 AM > Subject: LF: IEE HF2003 Conference > > > > A "Call for Papers" for the next IEE Conference on HF Radio Systems and > > Techniques (HF2003) has recently been announced (see > > http://conferences.iee.org/HF2003/). Interestingly, the "scope" of the > > Conference includes "Amateur Radio at HF" that gives us another, and > perhaps > > even better, opportunity to promote amateur radio following > Andy Talbot's, > > G4JNT, well received paper at the recent IEE conference, > "Getting the Most > > Out of the Radio Spectrum". > > > > Ian Poole, G3YWX, brought this whole matter to the attention of the RSGB > > during the recent HF & IOTA International Convention. After > discussion as > to > > the best way forward the RSGB President Bob Whelan, G3PJT, asked me if I > > would raise awareness and co-ordinate a response from the RSGB amateur > > community in order to maximise the impact that Amateur Radio we can make > at > > the Conference. > > > > Thus, I would be grateful for those who think that they might have > something > > to offer would have a look at the website and drop me an e-mail > with their > > ideas. I am not intending to add another layer of bureaucracy to the > IEE's > > process, but rather provide some consistency and integration between the > > amateur related experimental work that is submitted. For those who need > it, > > some assistance in drafting an 'attractive' "Synopsis". > > > > Given a normally tight programme we may only get a few papers > accepted, so > > we want to make sure that we can gain the maximum impact! > > > > Regards > > > > John Gould, G3WKL > > g3wkl@btinternet.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14204 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24329 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:30:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:30:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895nO-0000mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:14 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895nN-0000mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from host213-1-190-28.btinternet.com ([213.1.190.28] helo=presario-1920) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1895nM-0002nJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:39:12 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:43:20 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F5B@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Importance: Normal Subject: LF: RE: Attached documents? What is the practice? Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=HTML_50_70,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,IN_REP_TO, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Our preference is not to attach files, but instead upload the files onto a website and post the URL
 
73
 
John, G3WKL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of jan-martin.noding@telenor.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 15:30
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Attached documents? What is the practice?

Sometimes it seems useful to attach a file, what is the practice on this reflector?
It is a wellknown problem on other reflectors so the SYSOPs have often blocked
the possibility
I would only attach gif and jpg documents
 
73
Jan-Martin
LA8AK

 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15164 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:41:03 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:41:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1482 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 14:40:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 14:40:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1894ra-0000Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:39:30 +0000 Received: from [165.212.11.112] (helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1894rZ-0000VV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:39:29 +0000 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 14:39:26 -0000 Received: from usa.net [213.217.181.163] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 157gkeony0015M31; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:39:24 GMT Message-ID: <3DC7D7DC.1040207@usa.net> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:38:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: W&G SPM6 Selective Level Meter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello group, while the subject of SLMs is hot, I am here asking if someone of you has some experience in fixing the W&G SPM6. My unit worked ok up to a couple of weeks ago, then suddenly the measuring portion of the instrument gave forfeit. The RX portion is still working, and this is demonstrated by the presence of audio at the rear connector near the switch for AM, LSB, USB The front panel dBm selector works ok, this can be judged by the reproduced audio (I have an amplified speaker wired to the rear connector), while the analog meter hovers near the the beginning of its scale, instead of showing the correct level. I don't use this unit as a receiver, the LO is too unstable for this, al least for QRSS, but it was an useful, though bulky, instrument in my lab. I don't have any manuals or schematic of it. If someone can indicate the approximate area where the fault probably has developed, please contact me, here or privately. Many thanks in advance. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21578 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:40:35 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:40:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25667 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:40:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:40:00 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895lk-0000lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:37:32 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895lj-0000la-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:37:31 +0000 Received: from host213-1-190-28.btinternet.com ([213.1.190.28] helo=presario-1920) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1895li-0002uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:37:31 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:41:38 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Subject: LF: IEE HF2003 Conference Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group A "Call for Papers" for the next IEE Conference on HF Radio Systems and Techniques (HF2003) has recently been announced (see http://conferences.iee.org/HF2003/). Interestingly, the "scope" of the Conference includes "Amateur Radio at HF" that gives us another, and perhaps even better, opportunity to promote amateur radio following Andy Talbot's, G4JNT, well received paper at the recent IEE conference, "Getting the Most Out of the Radio Spectrum". Ian Poole, G3YWX, brought this whole matter to the attention of the RSGB during the recent HF & IOTA International Convention. After discussion as to the best way forward the RSGB President Bob Whelan, G3PJT, asked me if I would raise awareness and co-ordinate a response from the RSGB amateur community in order to maximise the impact that Amateur Radio we can make at the Conference. Thus, I would be grateful for those who think that they might have something to offer would have a look at the website and drop me an e-mail with their ideas. I am not intending to add another layer of bureaucracy to the IEE's process, but rather provide some consistency and integration between the amateur related experimental work that is submitted. For those who need it, some assistance in drafting an 'attractive' "Synopsis". Given a normally tight programme we may only get a few papers accepted, so we want to make sure that we can gain the maximum impact! Regards John Gould, G3WKL g3wkl@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15587 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:35:11 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:35:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 21084 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:34:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:34:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1895fS-0000iF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:31:02 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1895fS-0000i6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:31:02 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:23 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:19 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:19 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 16:30:19 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F5B@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity Thread-Index: AcKEujVzkf6qlUhkQ9yfvBbaycIsqwAJaPNg From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 15:30:19.0477 (UTC) FILETIME=[3F9FC050:01C284E0] Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Subject: LF: Attached documents? What is the practice? X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.6 required=5.0tests=HTML_50_70,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,NO_REAL_NAME, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Sometimes it seems useful to attach a file, what is the practice on this reflector?
It is a wellknown problem on other reflectors so the SYSOPs have often blocked
the possibility
I would only attach gif and jpg documents
 
73
Jan-Martin
LA8AK

 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17089 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 14:53:27 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 14:53:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13504 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 14:53:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 14:53:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 18953i-0000Ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:52:02 +0000 Received: from [195.37.42.2] (helo=FHAMWEN.fh-amberg-weiden.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18953i-0000ZV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:52:02 +0000 Received: from fh-amberg-weiden.de (kp.fh-amberg-weiden.de [195.37.42.59]) by FHAMWEN.fh-amberg-weiden.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) with ESMTP id PAA25755 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:18:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3DC7D873.CCEB801E@fh-amberg-weiden.de> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:40:51 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6lpin_Thomas?= Organization: FH-Amberg-Weiden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM, X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a test only - please put it to the trash! Vy 73 de DK1IS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9162 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 12:06:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 12:06:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 18488 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 13:12:31 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 13:12:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1892TA-0008Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:06:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [80.68.3.204] (helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1892T9-0008Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:06:07 +0000 Received: (qmail 24484 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 15:06:05 +0300 Received: from ed.dx (10.0.1.11) by gw.dx with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 15:06:05 +0300 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 15:06:51 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60q) Personal Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <129414852569.20021105150651@dx.ru> To: "G0MRF@aol.com" In-reply-to: <43.14687d4c.2af8fd04@aol.com> References: <43.14687d4c.2af8fd04@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re[2]: LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.7 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,NOSPAM_INC,REFERENCES, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_THEBATversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello David and All! Tuesday, November 5, 2002, 1:52:52 PM, you wrote: Gac> To maximise interest and to minimise the frustration of us not being heard, Now QRN are small. Also I think, that I have improved my LF reception. Gac> can I suggest that you announce 1 frequency for crossband contacts and you Gac> set up a small dipole etc with another radio for the purpose. 7MHz would be Gac> good as a number of us will have worked the 147kHz station by the same Gac> technique. On Machta I have good aerials on 160 and 80? and NO on 40m. 7012 is for the day time period and basically for exUSSR HAMs with my RX on 160 Quad I am not sure, that I can hear 100w/dipol CW on 40? from Europe at the night on my 160m Quad and during the next weekend's contest (I have noticed it in time CQ WW SSB, listening Europe on 3el full size 40m beam from another QTH) I remind, that up to Europe from me abt 2000-3600 kms But I plan to make the good 40m aerial on a Machta in the future 73! Ed RU6LA ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27889 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:53:08 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:53:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16470 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:54:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:54:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1891Ks-0008Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:53:30 +0000 Received: from [205.188.157.41] (helo=imo-d09.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1891Ks-0008Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:53:30 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.43.14687d4c (16930) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:52:52 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <43.14687d4c.2af8fd04@aol.com> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 05:52:52 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Subject: Re: LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/5/02 9:08:59 AM GMT Standard Time, ed@dx.ru writes:


Subj:LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity
Date:11/5/02 9:08:59 AM GMT Standard Time
From:    ed@dx.ru (Ed Lesnichy)
Sender:    owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Reply-to:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
To:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC:    g3yxm@wireless.org.uk (Dave Pick)




Hello LF_Group!

I am planning to be active from Machta (KN97LN) Nov 6-10



Hi.

Thanks for the timetable.

To maximise interest and to minimise the frustration of us not being heard, can I suggest that you announce 1 frequency for crossband contacts and you set up a small dipole etc with another radio for the purpose. 7MHz would be good as a number of us will have worked the 147kHz station by the same technique.

Good luck es 73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23889 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:22:11 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:22:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 1542 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:24:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:24:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1890rr-00084b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:23:31 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1890rr-00084L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:23:31 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:54 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:54 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:54 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:22:53 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F4E@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser Thread-Index: AcKEtI24hT+JarwQRt+++p69ID0CZAAAB2ZQ From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 10:22:53.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[4D2EB990:01C284B5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: LF: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Did I forget to mention that the trimmer cap. board should not be grounded? A dynamic phone insert will suffice, but is somewhat small. Have an integrated amplifier (0.5W) with loadspeaker in the shack, nice to listen to different sources of signals. 73 Jan-Martin, LA8AK (Ex G5BFV) -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: g6tmk [mailto:g6tmk@thersgb.net] Sendt: 5. november 2002 11:02 Til: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Emne: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser Hello Jan_Martin > Believe the audio level is terribly high, +1dBm/600 ohm is quite a lot, and little margin for overload > hope you understood it, otherwise I'll have to write it in in German or Norwegian and let Dick > PAØSE translate it. Thankyou for taking the trouble to describe your modifications in such detail. I am sure I will understand it when I get the covers off the instrument. The audio output is fairly high, sometimes I just plug a small loudspeaker in, and listen on that ! 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24030 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:17:59 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:17:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22719 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:19:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:19:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1890mV-00082Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:17:59 +0000 Received: from [213.218.77.54] (helo=cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1890mU-00082P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:17:58 +0000 Received: from [62.21.137.188] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1890mJ-0005l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:17:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105102232.00a79e30@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:18:01 +0100 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Series loading coil Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060101050400040106060303" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060101050400040106060303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

I also use the series coil system for tuning and matching the aerial to the 136kHz transmitter.
The coil was made by bolting four 1m long and 12.5cm diameter PVC pipes together and putting on 200 turns of 1.4mm diameter copper wire with black PVC insulation as used for house wiring.
Inductance is 4.4mH and unloaded Q  about 350.
Starting from the top I made a tap at every 10 turns by putting a twist in the wire. Heating with a soldering iron melts the insulation that then easily comes off to  bare the wire.
The bottom 10 turns have a tap at each turn. By short circuiting turns from the top and the bottom the coil can be adjusted in steps of one turn. For fine tuning a variable capacitor is in parallel with the coil. As this increases the current in the coil and thus the loss in it (proportional to current squared!) I adjust the coil so that only minimal capacitance is needed.
PA0SE Coil.jpg
The capacitor shown started to arc over at 60W of power. It was replaced by a vacuum capacitor rated at 5000V maximum.  When transmitter power was increased  from 120W to 320W I connected the capacitor over half the coil in order not to exceed  the maximum voltage.

The transmitter is connected to one of the turns at the bottom end. I don't worry about SWR and simply select the tap giving maximum aerial current (3A in dry weather).

A better picture of the coil above can be found on page 62 of G3LDO's The low frequency experimenter's handbook. The coil with the vacuum capacitor is shown on the cover of the book.

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APHYkuT+HtWhbNyjAcFR06Hrk++OBVBBsuHPXY+Rnuc479ycc8d6vwjG3+JuB69SABQiJPqX IDgBRyEAX8eKs9se+elVrfIA5HPoOPX/ABq2i5wHJCEgk+oz/n8q06EPQzrlf9PC4OAAfTPv 9OB+lJZjFljuHcHn0cinzndqBJXBManH0BGaLZ/MgYlAj7m+UHOOf50vUFsWrIhdRt2JwquG NdEgZcDaFb5cBvYJx7Dc2TXPWuxbqMvgIrfNx24zXRqSZGkYYw5HTsrAt/8Ar/2cU0MfbvGk gy42heGOBkYXH54JxRUaELKBJEZAq7doXceig8egIPPvRTAzHRRsAGUyo+UAliewz6KSfqD7 VUYMVbO5nJDFQc/KFJx/KtiaBXiYLkKBvHB5GHwB+AFUb22dVdVBIII2qv3jlh+AJOMeg+lZ yWhSZyJOHJJDODgkDPY5I/DAH1+lS8lVyegxyeg/z/npUAfMnrlTjHHI/wD1f1qxuOw7mI4z yck/4dc0IUlZmdqI/wBFJAAwDjHrnJ5/z0rmPDCq+sXMZxglCABznacY966nVGDwlfX7ozz6 AVyfhwt/bd2YwNwCFdx9AefrQ97Fx+Fnbf33Yj5s/nkY/QmrqcuCdxPcY9s/QdcVTAwWC8FX 2gAc8Ejir8YySwy2SdozwBz/AFzzQkQy1APQcjuat4ykROTywx7DB/qarQIeAoJz+OatFfn5 OVACqB9Mn68k/mKsl7lC7b/iYkZ/g57Z5plmB5LhS2Czkg9ckntTrvc1915KBiR0zk//AF6q aW0gt2WW5EsgcjIk3lR1AJ7dTx6ikPoaSfu5QfQYwByc8g/lXSv992cF8MzEHuAThfpwT+Fc 1BG0k0caggswAHQ8+v510srSSOzRLySNvHfIP8gD7U0FhnkPMzxqRuB+Yk+hOfzLN+AoqR4R JEIgzKi4IwpbjkDp64Jz7iimA5tJgYkmW5yev79uevv9PyFNfTLZrhVJmOQSczv/AI+rZ/Ci ipe6Aop4c0p5Afsu0lWyVdhnDD39qcfD+loJGFs2I88ea2TwD1zx6UUVjfQY1PDWkSsUNpkL 3LseAx9/UZz71FD4J8O72mXTI0YsRlWYHg45OfUZoorZJXYXZOPD2jhtoszyxXPnP6bvWlTR NMcJ/orBT8oAlfupb19/0oorNdQHpo1ksAcRsGdFGfMbgnjPX3qQ6JYI8Y8qQ5OOZW/u/X2o oq0IjbQ9Ne3ErW5IEYYgyNk8dM5/zxSJoWmLyLUgvIwO2Vx0zz19Fooo6NjFXRdPS72JDIuI y2RO/rj19v1qZdKtXkcsZ/lc4/0h+4B9fXmiipu7oBn9kWcsXInABxxO3bI9faiiiuadaaej Gkj/2Q== --------------060101050400040106060303-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31125 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:16:52 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:16:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 29095 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 11:19:53 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 11:19:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1890fm-0007yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:11:02 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.223] (helo=marstons.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1890fm-0007yO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:11:02 +0000 Received: (qmail 25739 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 11:15:00 -0000 Received: from modem-27-61-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.61.27) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 11:15:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c284b3$21330780$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF594@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 10:01:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Jan_Martin > Believe the audio level is terribly high, +1dBm/600 ohm is quite a lot, and little margin for overload > hope you understood it, otherwise I'll have to write it in in German or Norwegian and let Dick > PAØSE translate it. Thankyou for taking the trouble to describe your modifications in such detail. I am sure I will understand it when I get the covers off the instrument. The audio output is fairly high, sometimes I just plug a small loudspeaker in, and listen on that ! 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28389 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 10:09:28 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:09:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 9053 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 10:13:23 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 10:13:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188zgz-0007jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:08:13 +0000 Received: from [80.68.3.204] (helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 188zgy-0007jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:08:13 +0000 Received: (qmail 19890 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 12:08:09 +0300 Received: from ed.dx (10.0.1.11) by gw.dx with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 12:08:09 +0300 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:08:54 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60q) Personal Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <142404174700.20021105120854@dx.ru> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Dave Pick" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Nov 6-10 LF UA6-activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, UPPERCASE_25_50,USER_AGENT_THEBATversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello LF_Group! I am planning to be active from Machta (KN97LN) Nov 6-10 The prospective time-table of my activity on LF on days and on hours (time in UTC): (at KN97LN Sunset abt 1400, Sunrise 0415z) (freq my day's Beacon tests 137.700) NOV 6: Probably since 1600 QRSS3 (or QRSS1) (10/1 w ERP) 137.700 1800 - 2100 RX G Beacon test (QRSS10/30) abt 71.75 kHz (QSX 137.7 ?) since 2100 or earlier+. QRSS3 (or QRSS1) (10/1 w ERP) 137.700 NOV 7: since 1600... QRSS3 (or QRSS1) (10/1 w ERP) 137.700 NOV 8: 0500 - 0600 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 0600 - 0700 QRSS3/CW 1w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 1w") 1100 - 1200 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 1200 - 1300 QRSS3/CW 1w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 1w") 1300 - 1400 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 1400 - 1700 VK/ZL/UA Asia Beacon test (QRSS60 10w ERP) 137.700 since 1700... QRSS3 (or QRSS1) (10/1 w ERP) 137.700 NOV 9-10: 0500 - 0600 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 0600 - 0700 QRSS3/CW 1w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 1w") 1100 - 1200 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 1200 - 1300 QRSS3/CW 1w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 1w") 1300 - 1400 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") 1400 - 1500 QRSS3/CW 1w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 1w") 1500 - 1600 QRSS3/CW 10w ERP Beacon test ("RU6LA 10w") since 1600... QRSS3 (or QRSS1) (10/1 w ERP) 137.700 2200 - 0430 NA/SA/UA Asia Beacon test (QRSS60 10w ERP) 135.922 OFF I have a DX-cluster. Also it is possible to inform me abt Report or QSX QSO on a pager via e-mail: e-mail: vesso@crypt.rnd.ru Subject: 29600 In body: text QSX 136/ 7012 day (stop my QRSS) QSX 136/ 3533 night (stop my QRSS) But the basic attention will be given 73/136/136 QSOs QSX CW abt 136,1 / 137.700 my Freq (stop my QRSS if I will audible) The equipment same as well as in Sep 26-29: Ant TX - Big Vertical , PA - 100w Output, TS-850, Ant RX - BV, Pre-selector with hi Q coils 73! Ed RU6LA ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7479 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 08:57:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 08:57:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 25042 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 08:58:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 08:58:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188zXL-0007es-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:58:15 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188zXK-0007ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:58:14 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:57:37 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.192]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:57:21 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-215.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:57:21 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:57:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:57:21 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF595@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: re DS2006 o/p Thread-Index: AcKEKeNV7YfbkKrET/uPKWDrW1vC/gAfi+AA From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 08:57:21.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A11F160:01C284A9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Siemens K2119 (D2119/W3119) Level Test Set200Hz-2,1MHz ? X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi My best tool is the K2119, but it is faulty at the moment, and I have to look for some fuses, possibly 160mA mittelträge...., but somebody don't seem to understand why we need fuses any more in Norwegian Telecomm... The K2119 consists of two integrated units, D2119 Pegelmesser and W3119 Pegelsender. Believe it has ESB/SSB audio output, but when reading the manual I can't see any demodulator between 100kHz final amplifier and the output board, so I am rather puzzled. Perhaps somebody can tell me which board to check? Might try a modification on this set as well, if I can consider the proper board. 73, Jan_Martin LA8AK@Online.no (in JO38XC = Kristiansand.S) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13228 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 08:51:32 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 08:51:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10342 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2002 08:50:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 08:50:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188zP1-0007b9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:49:39 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188zP0-0007av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:49:38 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.90] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:49:01 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-208.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:46:35 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:46:35 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:46:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 09:46:34 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF594@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser...and W&G SPM-3 Thread-Index: AcKEFyVtw3a33BrsRm+o5OMFV9lwrwAjyU6w From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2002 08:46:35.0424 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8F69A00:01C284A7] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi The board "S45035-D5142-.."(Ausgangsteil) has a simple BJT product detector and BFO. The BFO frequency is tuned with 2250pF and it is shifted by S4, possibly shifting it 1.85 below and above 100kHz as the switch is set to left or right. When the 250pF is grounded it is LOW and when it has the two external capacitors (above the switch on the front) in series it is HIGH. The unmarked capacitors above the switch behind the front are 25pF styroflex and 25pf air trimmer, I measured 41pF, but don't always rely on the instrument, and to the calculation you may add some 50pF for the PTFE-cable. Remove all plates and screws and when you still can't find a way to start modifications, you should read the instructions, Chapter 4, MAINTENANCE - only to discover that you can just as well put back some of the screws again and remove the upper unbrako type screws instead - to slide the upper unit backwards. It was a fight to remove the front plate, but it went after all. Careful with all those terribly small 2.5mm screws, nuts and washers! First I thought of a capacitor, but it must be small enough and isolated from ground behind the front plate. A better idea is a varicap diode (BB112 or BB130), but diode must be shorted for USB, it demanded a potmeter with an NC-switch and they are rare, so I decided use a switch with 4 positions instead. An alternative is to forward bias the varicap as a switching type. Mounted 3 trimmers and fixed value capacitors in sort of dead-bug style (45° angle backwards)on a bracket with pcb laminate where the old capacitors had been. The 4 positions are now: 1. Shorted coax cable as earlier CCW (LEFT) with 1850Hz pitch for 80Hz filter. 2. 470pf+270pf + 100pf trimmer - to tune one sideband with 500-800Hz pitch 3. 56pf + 100pF trimmer, to tune the opposite sideband with 500-800Hz pitch 4. 22pF + 20pf trimmer (or 10pf fixed and 40pf trimmer) for CW (RIGHT) as before used a six position switch, but couldn't think of the need to use more than 4 positions, Didn't find any small shiches with long shaft, so the nut must protrude through the front plate, so the hole must be widened a little for the nut. Believe the audio level is terribly high, +1dBm/600 ohm is quite a lot, and little margin for overload hope you understood it, otherwise I'll have to write it in in German or Norwegian and let Dick PAØSE translate it. 73, Jan_Martin LA8AK@Online.no (in JO38XC) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ NOTE: Because of heavy spamming now applying eremove.exe, please avoid odd titles! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23092 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 23:17:55 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 23:17:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 14943 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 00:24:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 00:24:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188qVA-0006OL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:19:24 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188qV9-0006OC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:19:24 +0000 Received: from host213-122-186-56.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.186.56] helo=main) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188qV9-0007PN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 23:19:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c28458$91f164e0$38ba7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 23:18:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: UPS batteries Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Peter I note your replacement of the sealed batteries in the UPS with old car batteries. The UPS will charge them correctly but the car batteries will produce hydrogen, I believe, even on a maintenance charge. The sealed batteries are designed not to produce hydrogen (by careful design of the electrode sizes) unless maltreated ( then they bulge alarmingly ). I know your shack is in an extension and hope it is well ventilated. A Radio Club member at MRS was involved in a nasty accident with professional battery back up rack, when a techician walking across a carpet to test a battery (backing a professional link circuit) drew a static spark as he reached for the vent caps and and was drenched in battery acid, by the resultant explosion. The amateur present was able to sluice him with water immediately, and use eye wash bottle. He suffered no lasting effects other than the need for a new pair of shoes and trousers, and an healthy caution when approaching lead-acid batteries. If the batteries can be located outside in a ventilated cover box it would be safer, particularly with the voltages and possibility of sparks involved in LF transmitters. At least do keep an eye wash bottle nearby. It is better to be safe........ Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9130 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 23:00:26 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 23:00:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 2373 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Nov 2002 00:03:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 00:03:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188qBZ-0006I9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:59:09 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.93] (helo=rhenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188qBZ-0006I0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:59:09 +0000 Received: from host213-122-186-56.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.186.56] helo=main) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188qBY-0000Qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:59:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c28455$bdbd94c0$38ba7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:57:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Zetex chip..re SLM SSB demods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all at Tracey's request I have been thumbing through my old Electronics Worlds. The data on the Zetex Mixer / filter chip type number ZXF30L01 is obtainable from http://www.zetex.com/pdf/ics/zxf36l01.pdf the best set of design competition finalists are in the Nov 2001 issue pp834-837. These include a Droitwhich frequency standard, an AM RX for 30kHz to 700kHz, an ultrasonic detector, and an CW/SSB detector and CW filter (800Hz) (I think this guy must have an SLMS !!) You need to provide a LO for the latter. I have a mono GIF scan of that circuit which is slightly too big (abt 45kB) for the reflector, but I will gladly forward it directly. What I cannot find is the Farnell part number, I only have an old catalogue but you should find it quickly through the web site....it may not be cheap!! As an aside I do have a couple of Racal 5002 wideband (20MHz) LMSs which are available for £50 each plus carriage. (they will both need new Li back-up batteries) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13065 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 22:55:17 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 22:55:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 12202 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 22:56:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188q84-0006Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:55:32 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188q84-0006Fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:55:32 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-166.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.166] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188q83-0008sh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 22:55:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c28455$434558e0$a6ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003b01c28426$8a38d800$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> <006501c2842b$0ed9a540$09dc9384@jka> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 22:54:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz Activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group John Andrews said: > Laurie, > > I checked last night, and 73.401 still looks good over here. And I will > actually be home on the evening of 6-7 Nov. But I can run screen captures if > you pick another date. I made an attempt to have a 73/136 cross band with EA1PX without success. Jose has seen my signals on 71.7kHz previously and I have seen his on 137.702kHz tonight but we were not able to exchange reports. We will try again in a couple of days. Nice signal seen from DL3FDO QRSS3 on 137.69kHz during the test I have now replaced the computer UPS batteries with an odd selection of car batteries. This hhas resulted in a muchh 'stiffer' supply and I can noe get 4.2amps into the antenna on 73kHz. As the transmitter is going so well I will transmit a beacon signal on 71.7kHz from now until I go to bed. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26355 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 19:12:52 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 19:12:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 24849 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 19:11:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 19:11:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188mcY-0005pW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:10:46 +0000 Received: from [210.86.15.146] (helo=mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188mcW-0005pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:10:45 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20021104191012.KZCE3817.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:10:12 +1300 Received: from bob2l2u6k2n1g3 ([210.55.147.234]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20021104191011.NKGD24544.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@bob2l2u6k2n1g3> for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:10:11 +1300 Message-ID: <003a01c28435$f690c0d0$f33658db@bob2l2u6k2n1g3> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104143711.00a8f908@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:10:35 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Jan-Martin, Jim and others, I also agree with comments that a series inductor (the traditional "loading coil") is the best approach for compensating capacitive reactance in amateur top-loaded verticals, and then either an autotransformer or L match to convert the R value to being reasonably close to the desired load resistance. > All this begs the question "why do people use T networks at HF?" The answer > is, I suppose, that at HF the degree of mismatch is usually smaller, > requiring a much lower loaded-Q network which is more practical to realise. > Also, being able to twiddle all 3 component values gives you a reasonable > chance of getting a good match, without having the faintest idea what the > antenna impedance actually is! At HF the antennas can present the full range of capacitive to inductive reactance, in combination with high to low resistance. This includes the transformer action of transmission lines that can "invert impedances" every quarter of a wavelength, so a multiband antenna and feeder can actually have a wide range of impedance presented at the shack end of a feeder. A high pass T tuner can address such a wide range of incidental impedances, in an effective manner. At LF, a top-loaded vertical has capacitance and low to medium series resistance, and transmission lines are of negligible length, the net result being that impedance is fairly restricted in limits, so the versalitity of a T network is not needed. Jim's calculations show why it should be avoided. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20109 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:54:18 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:54:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 2549 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 18:57:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 18:57:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188lOc-0005bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:52:18 +0000 Received: from [206.173.118.93] (helo=uhura.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188lOb-0005bZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:52:17 +0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gA4Hq9h18972 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:52:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA26910; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:52:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006501c2842b$0ed9a540$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003b01c28426$8a38d800$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:53:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re. 73kHz Activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Laurie, I checked last night, and 73.401 still looks good over here. And I will actually be home on the evening of 6-7 Nov. But I can run screen captures if you pick another date. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12558 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:44:56 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:44:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 16070 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:43:56 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:43:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188lCI-0005UF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:34 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188lCH-0005U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:33 +0000 Received: from host213-122-84-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.84.100] helo=main) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188lCF-0007bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c28429$13203a80$64547ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:22:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Feed inv Ls...... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, whoops sorry I am becoming a bore...that's two messages to the reflector at once!! Well never mind....this query by Jan-Martin is interesting.....my answer is that you must NOT believe all the figures that the computer programs tell you!! Go and measure it ! Even the much vaunted NEC does not model short amateur type LF aerials properly. It can only calculate the parameters that are built in to it. Its dealing with things like elevated inductive loading and ground loss are adequate for HF, or for commercial type LF station configurations but are way out on an amateur scale. I do not know of anyone, even Finbar who lives on the sea shore, who would get a 18 ohm real part impedance for a 30m high L with 50m top. The measured figure is more likey to be of the order of 80 to 100 ohms even with extensive "radials" and ground spikes. This is not just a result of my measurement but the reported results of others with real aerials. Reg's equations are an interesting guide but should not be regarded as completely accurate at LF. I found his Topload program to be greatly different to measured examples. Extra components for matching can give extra loss, and its difficult to calculate or even measure this. The single coil works in most cases, it does not however give a dc path to ground, which can be a problem on reception, and where high induced voltages are present (nearby thunder clouds). From the simplicity point of view it wins for most stations. Variable capacitors to withstand the kind of voltages generated at 400w to 1kW are not cheap. It looks like a practical solution to a problem but I am interested to hear other opinions. The dc path and the matching has been solved to some extent by some stations grounding the coil and tapping the feed up from the earthy end. This can still avoid expensive capacitors, but require a lot of experimenting and a more complex coil build. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10130 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:43:42 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:43:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 25148 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 18:46:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 18:46:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188lCG-0005U2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:32 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188lCG-0005Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:32 +0000 Received: from host213-122-84-100.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.84.100] helo=main) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188lCE-0007bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:39:30 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c28429$123e6600$64547ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:52:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: re DS2006 o/p Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Hugh....Ahhh well if it has an SSB demodulator included you could presumably re adjust the local oscillator in this unit without affecting the measuring capability of the main unit. It will probably require some caps soldered in rather than a tweak, I suspect. You have to hope the local oscillator is not a crystal. I believe that the demod in the SPM-12 has two output 1kHz and 2kHz. The output of the SPM-3 is 1.5khz and this is the "IF" with the fixed filtering ( 100Hz BW ) which is an LC filter, and works quite well for reception. A narrower filter would require some kind of "locked" oscillator. As it is the unit will drift about the same order as the bandwidth (50 to 100Hz) over 12 hours or so (or mine does) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15453 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:14:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:14:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 8254 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 18:20:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 18:20:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188kmy-0005NZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:13:24 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.172] (helo=cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188kmy-0005NQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:13:24 +0000 Received: from modem-109.adanedhel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.96.109] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188kmx-0006CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 17:13:24 +0000 Message-ID: <003b01c28426$8a38d800$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:01:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jose, and All Ed hopes to be at Machta from Nov.6 until Nov.10, He will confirm. If he is operational I will transmit on 71.75 QRSS and listen for him on 136 (I don't think he is able to TX on 73 ) We have agreed that he will look for me between 1900 and 2100 UTC. on 6th November. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8736 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 17:14:15 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 17:14:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21805 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 16:13:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 16:13:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188jpv-0005BG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:12:23 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188jpv-0005B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:12:23 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 188joB-0000hV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:10:35 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 188jo9-0007iU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:10:33 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104143711.00a8f908@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:10:26 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F39@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp .telenor.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailScanner: No Virus detected Subject: Re: LF: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.8 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group At 13:49 04/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Wonder why seems to be a habit use a series coil to tune out the >capacitance of the 136kHz aerial, instead of more normal sort of matching >- using T- or L-network Dear Jan-Martin, LF Group, I would agree with everything Andy says - but there are also practical difficulties in making the T-network scheme work: The components in the tuning network have to be highly rated - for example, a 500W TX driving a 50R load has an output current of about 3.2A. The 142p input capacitor has a reactance of about -j8.2kohms, so with 3.2 amps flowing in it, the voltage across it's terminals will be 26kV! The capacitor plates would probably need at least 50mm spacing... The inductor will have to withstand this voltage, as well as a higher current - about 8.3A instead of 5.1A, and since it also has to have a higher Q and about 3 times the inductance of the simple series coil, it will be a much more massive component. The output 295pF capacitor will have around 20kV across it. The capacitive reactance of the antenna can be fairly accurately predicted, but the loss resistance is more unpredictable, so at least 2 of the 3 components must be variable to be sure of getting a reasonable match. So as well as improving efficiency, the series coil is much easier to build and adjust - The resistive component can be matched using a small ferrite cored auto-transformer, with several taps to allow a wide range of antenna resistance - an ETD49 core is more than adequate up to 1kW or more, and all the tuning is done by small variations to the series coil of about 1.3mH. The maximum voltage (now the antenna voltage) will be under 6kV with 500W TX, so much more manageable. All this begs the question "why do people use T networks at HF?" The answer is, I suppose, that at HF the degree of mismatch is usually smaller, requiring a much lower loaded-Q network which is more practical to realise. Also, being able to twiddle all 3 component values gives you a reasonable chance of getting a good match, without having the faintest idea what the antenna impedance actually is! PS...Once you have got your TX antenna working, the PS3 in conjunction with a calibrated antenna, is the perfect tool for measuring field strength, etc. It is also extremely useful in conjunction with a bridge for impedance measurements. The selectivity is more than adequate with about 100-200Hz BW for use as an RX, which it will do fairly well when the sensitivity is increased with a suitable preselector. I would not be without mine. But the 1.5kHz "IF" output is really a bit uncomfortable to listen to, so down-conversion of some sort would be a good idea. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30123 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 16:59:51 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 16:59:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 21919 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 16:58:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 16:58:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188kXK-0005IS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:57:14 +0000 Received: from [206.173.118.93] (helo=uhura.concentric.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188kXJ-0005IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:57:13 +0000 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff.concentric.net [206.173.118.90]) by uhura.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id gA4GvAh11781 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id LAA29295; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:57:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501c28423$616ab4a0$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104143711.00a8f908@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:58:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > >Wonder why seems to be a habit use a series coil to tune out the > >capacitance of the 136kHz aerial, instead of more normal sort of matching > >- using T- or L-network Actually, using an inductor to ground, with a tap for the feed point, IS a high-pass L network. The portion below the tap represents inductive reactance, and the part above is capacitive (the inductive reactance of the coil is set lower than the capacitive reactance of the antenna). John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22965 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 15:28:30 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 15:28:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 9498 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 15:28:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 15:28:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188j7T-00052P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:26:27 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.46] (helo=mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188j7S-00052G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 15:26:26 +0000 Received: from default ([62.253.49.8]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021104152625.FJYV18329.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@default> for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:26:25 +0000 Message-ID: <004101c28416$73aa9020$0831fd3e@default> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF592@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 14:02:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser...and W&G SPM-3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Jan-Martin The SPM-3 has a single xtal filter at the 650kHz 1st IF followed by a narrow LC filter at the 1.5kHz 2nd IF. The 1.5kHz filter is something like 100/120Hz wide at -6db. 73s Tracey SPM-3 is another interesting unit, but I believe the selectivity is based on LC-filters, and it really is too broad. Have kept a few for possible interest for 136kc activity in Norway. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15553 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 13:42:06 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 13:42:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 9702 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 13:41:02 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 13:41:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188hT1-0004mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:40:35 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188hT0-0004ma-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:40:35 +0000 Received: from [212.1.150.132] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 188hMy-0003rK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:34:21 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:39:18 -0000 Message-ID: <01C28407.92EC1C60.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:39:17 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: RE: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.2 required=5.0tests=GAPPY_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_PRIORITY_HIGHversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Beacause the optimum lowest loss matching network is always the one with the lowest possible Q. And the lowest possible Q is given by an L match. Here the L match is formed by the series inductance which has the dual job of cancelling out most of the capacitive reactance. One this is done whatever real part of the impedance has to be matched, which can be done with a little bit more L followed by a shunt C to give a required impedance - or more aften as is done on these bands the transmitter is then matched into whatever residual impedance is presented. Due to the dominance of the ground resistance, this often turns out to be some useable value in the 20 - 100 ohm range. Any other components added over those required to make a basic match are likely to add extra loss. The one exception to this general rule is where extra components are added in order to deliberately broadband match a load impedance. The mathemateically correct procedure for this is probably to start off with something like a chebshev network (as in the filters) and go from there - but these days designers just plug the requirements into a circuit optimiser and press the go button - then trust the results. Broadband matching something that is inherently very narrow band such as an LF antenna is not possible, or at least not without incurring considerable losses away from resonance. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com [SMTP:jan-martin.noding@telenor.com] Sent: 2002/11/04 12:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Wonder why seems to be a habit use a series coil to tune out the capacitance of the 136kHz aerial, instead of more normal sort of matching - using T- or L-network Below is shown some impedance for a thought antenna (had to enter some radial length for the program to work) using ENDFEED.exe provided by G4FGQ H. Height, metres .. 10.0 N. Number of buried radial wires . 2 L. Length, metres .. 150.0 R. Length of radials, metres ..... 50.0 W. Wire dia, mm .... 2.00 D. Diameter of radial wires, mm .. 1.0 F. Frequency Kilo-Hz 136 S. Strap length to radials, metres 3.0 G. Ground characteristics:- Average soil: R = 100, K = 12 H+L+S = 0.074 wavelengths. R ohms jX ohms Tune out jX with FEEDPOINT INPUT IMPEDANCE: 18.9 -1096.1 1282.7 micro-Henrys ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <-- Transcvr Shunt L Antenna --> T-NETWORK L & C values: 142 pF 3666.6 uH 295 pF ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <-- Transcvr Series X Antenna --> L-NETWORK L & C values: 2086.4 uH 3328.4 uH Alternative L & C values: 656 pF 794.7 uH ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOSS in T-match coil 25.4 % of Tx Pwr GROUND ELECTRODE SYSTEM, INPUT Z in antenna conductor 3.3 % .. .. .. DC Resistance 2.9 ohms in soil in vicinity 42.6 % .. .. .. RF Resistance 7.2 .. in system of radials 28.6 % .. .. .. RF Reactance 7.0 .. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Overall power radiating efficiency .. 0.05 percent Overall loss relative to ideal system 33.1 decibels or 5.5 'S-points' Select H,L,W,F,N,R,D,S,G to change data, B(egin again) or Q(uit program) you find the program on the link below >======================== >Free Radio Design Software >Go to http://www.g4fgq.com >======================== 73, Jan_Martin LA8AK (in JO38XC http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ NOTE: Because of heavy spamming now applying eremove.exe, please avoid odd titles! << File: ATT00000.htm >> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17279 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:52:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:52:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 9178 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 13:56:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 13:56:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188ggN-0004bl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:50:19 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188ggN-0004bX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:50:19 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:49:45 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:49:45 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.191]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:49:44 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-213.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:49:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:49:44 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F39@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Feeding an inverted L-antenna Thread-Index: AcKDihGeDCGhbQZ7STWhOfFKsIuNvwAdmWIQ From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2002 12:49:45.0146 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6B3C1A0:01C28400] Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Subject: LF: VS: Feeding an inverted L-antenna X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0tests=GAPPY_TEXT,HTML_FONT_COLOR_RED,NO_REAL_NAME, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Wonder why seems to be a habit use a series coil to tune out the capacitance of the 136kHz aerial, instead of more normal sort of matching - using T- or L-network
 
Below is shown some impedance for a thought antenna (had to enter some radial length for the program to work) using ENDFEED.exe provided by G4FGQ
 
 H.  Height, metres ..   10.0       N. Number of buried radial wires .      2
 L.  Length, metres ..  150.0       R. Length of radials, metres .....   50.0
 W.  Wire dia, mm ....   2.00       D. Diameter of radial wires, mm ..    1.0
 F.  Frequency Kilo-Hz    136       S. Strap length to radials, metres    3.0
 G.  Ground characteristics:-   Average soil:    R = 100, K = 12
 H+L+S =  0.074 wavelengths.
                                   R ohms      jX ohms     Tune out jX with
 FEEDPOINT INPUT IMPEDANCE:          18.9      -1096.1     1282.7 micro-Henrys
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             <-- Transcvr      Shunt L      Antenna -->
 T-NETWORK L & C values:           142 pF    3666.6 uH       295 pF
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             <-- Transcvr     Series X      Antenna -->
 L-NETWORK L & C values:                     2086.4 uH    3328.4 uH
 Alternative L & C values:                      656 pF     794.7 uH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 LOSS in T-match coil   25.4  % of Tx Pwr      GROUND ELECTRODE SYSTEM, INPUT Z
 in antenna conductor    3.3  % .. .. ..             DC Resistance    2.9  ohms
  in soil in vicinity   42.6  % .. .. ..             RF Resistance    7.2   ..
 in system of radials   28.6  % .. .. ..             RF Reactance     7.0   ..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Overall power radiating efficiency ..   0.05  percent
 Overall loss relative to ideal system   33.1  decibels or 5.5 'S-points'
 
 Select H,L,W,F,N,R,D,S,G to change data,  B(egin again) or Q(uit program)
 
 
you find the program on the link below
>========================
>Free Radio Design Software
>Go to  http://www.g4fgq.com
>========================
73,
Jan_Martin
LA8AK (in JO38XC
http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/
NOTE: Because of heavy spamming now applying eremove.exe, please avoid odd titles!
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25549 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:47:05 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:47:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 25354 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:46:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:46:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188gbm-0004Ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:45:34 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 188gbl-0004YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:45:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 10195 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:33:37 -0000 Received: from modem-167-44-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.44.167) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:33:37 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c283fd$f9c81880$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003701c283f7$a54f65c0$85097ad5@main> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 12:29:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Alan wrote: > yes the output from most of these things is the "IF"( and so is from > a carefully designed defined-gain amplifier), there is an Option for the > SPM-12 which is an SSB demodulator... The D2006 has an SSB output, at headphone listening level, with a switch between USB and LSB. I have used the set as a communications receiver on HF for many years with good results. There is also a switch between 80Hz IF band pass and 3100Hz bandwidth but the recovered audio pitch of CW, is rather high when using the 80Hz filter. So it is clear that the D2006 already has an SSB demodulator built in. However, there is a socket marked "100kHz IF", so I suppose one could build an SSB / CW demodulator to connect to this. It would be simpler to find the trim pot marked "CW pitch" and turn it down ... if such a thing exists. :-) 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7349 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:40:18 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 17055 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 12:38:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 12:38:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188gU7-0004VQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:37:39 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188gU6-0004VH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 12:37:38 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:04 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:02 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:02 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 13:37:02 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF1BF592@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Thread-Index: AcKD+b0fbb9G/DgKRsae8tf8FG7/1AAA8Ttw From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2002 12:37:02.0378 (UTC) FILETIME=[E00E98A0:01C283FE] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pegelmesser...and W&G SPM-3 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Interesting thoughts. I would have to check the handbook at home. It is also a problem with overload, and this could be solved partly adding an AGC to the ADD-ON unit. Depends on the IF level how complicated it would be. Perhaps it is not worth, but it is always worth investigating into when documents are good. SO42P is my favourite device for productdetector/mixer. SPM-3 is another interesting unit, but I believe the selectivity is based on LC-filters, and it really is too broad. Have kept a few for possible interest for 136kc activity in Norway. 73 Jan-Martin LA8AK (JO38XC) -----Original message----- From: Alan Melia [mailto:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] Hi all, yes the output from most of these things is the "IF"( and so is from a carefully designed defined-gain amplifier), there is an Option for the SPM-12 which is an SSB demodulator. Several LF users have build add-ons to the standard SPM-12, which has a 10kHz output. It should be possible to use a chip like the NE602/612 to make a simple demod even at audio frequencies plus a filter for the image. A relatively simple single pi-section LP filter with a rejection notch at the image frequency should be adequate for confortable listening. I did work out the details for the SPM-3 (1.5kHz) but never built it. If you want something more sophisticated Zetek have launched a chip with a mixer and (external component) configurable filter module in it, which is available from Farnell I believe.....this has a maximum operating frequency of 600kHz so could even be used as the basis of a simple receiver on 136k. It was covered in one of the mags (possibly EW) sometime in the last 12 months. I have details somewhere. Whilst it could work for strong signals, I have my doubts that a divider chip would be much use with weak signals and lots of noise. Dividers are used in Bat Detectors, but mixer versions are much better......the bat conservationists are finding that soundcard DSP programs, like Spectrogram, are helping them to identify individual bats !! I suppose that is the sort of thing Robert originally wrote it for !! Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 04 November 2002 08:14 Subject: LF: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Hi Does somebody know if it is possible to change the pitch? It has 80Hz as well as 3100Hz bandwidth, but the pitch is ca 1000Hz and not too pleasant to listen to, would rather prefer 500Hz 73, Jan_Martin From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 30728 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 11:48:25 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 11:48:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 14420 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 11:47:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 11:47:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188fg0-0004Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:45:52 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188ffz-0004GY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:45:51 +0000 Received: from host213-122-9-133.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.9.133] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188ffy-0005jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:45:51 +0000 Message-ID: <003701c283f7$a54f65c0$85097ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 11:34:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, yes the output from most of these things is the "IF"( and so is from a carefully designed defined-gain amplifier), there is an Option for the SPM-12 which is an SSB demodulator. Several LF users have build add-ons to the standard SPM-12, which has a 10kHz output. It should be possible to use a chip like the NE602/612 to make a simple demod even at audio frequencies plus a filter for the image. A relatively simple single pi-section LP filter with a rejection notch at the image frequency should be adequate for confortable listening. I did work out the details for the SPM-3 (1.5kHz) but never built it. If you want something more sophisticated Zetek have launched a chip with a mixer and (external component) configurable filter module in it, which is available from Farnell I believe.....this has a maximum operating frequency of 600kHz so could even be used as the basis of a simple receiver on 136k. It was covered in one of the mags (possibly EW) sometime in the last 12 months. I have details somewhere. Whilst it could work for strong signals, I have my doubts that a divider chip would be much use with weak signals and lots of noise. Dividers are used in Bat Detectors, but mixer versions are much better......the bat conservationists are finding that soundcard DSP programs, like Spectrogram, are helping them to identify individual bats !! I suppose that is the sort of thing Robert originally wrote it for !! Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 04 November 2002 08:14 Subject: LF: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Hi Does somebody know if it is possible to change the pitch? It has 80Hz as well as 3100Hz bandwidth, but the pitch is ca 1000Hz and not too pleasant to listen to, would rather prefer 500Hz 73, Jan_Martin From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25270 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 10:22:04 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 10:22:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15305 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 10:25:59 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 10:25:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188dIu-0003jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:13:52 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 188dIu-0003jH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:13:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 4149 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 09:13:17 -0000 Received: from modem-205-40-60-62.vip.uk.com (HELO hugh) (62.60.40.205) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:13:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c283e1$fc9e2ca0$0504210a@c.scope> From: "g6tmk" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:09:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Jan, Interesting question. The 80Hz filter is a crystal filter, so it is hard to change it's frequency, without redesigning it for different crystals. I don't have a manual for my D2006., so I don't know what adjustments there are, or what the circuit is. Denis, F6CRP has two D2006's in his shack, and has investigated the IF bandwidths. His website ... (notice he has both French and English versions of the site) http://perso.wanadoo.fr/f6crp/0english/denise5.htm His E-mail address: f6crp@wanadoo.fr I should be interested to know what you find out. 73 Hugh M0WYE / G6TMK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22618 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 09:34:58 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:34:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 26094 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 09:36:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:36:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188dar-0003py-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:32:25 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.47] (helo=mta07-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188dar-0003pp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:32:25 +0000 Received: from default ([62.253.48.126]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021104093222.UKSH1554.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@default> for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:32:22 +0000 Message-ID: <005d01c283e4$fe6354e0$7e30fd3e@default> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F37@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:10:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Jan_Martin I've got a similar problem with my level meters, they all seem to output tones between 1000Hz and 1500Hz. I'm considering using a cheap "Voice Modulator" IC the HT8950 from Holtek on the output. This is a simple 18 pin device designed for use in toys, but it offers the ability to divide a tone by certain fixed ratios. ISTR that they are 8/9, 4/5, 2/3 so that your 1000Hz could be reduced to say 666Hz with a single HT8950. If you were to daisy chain two or more 8950's you could come up with any number of combinations! It also does "Robot" and "Vibrato" effects but I can't see those being much use to us! :-) The 8950 is available in Maplin over here in the UK for about £2.50 and I found the application notes on web by doing a search on Google. 73s Tracey Does somebody know if it is possible to change the pitch? It has 80Hz as well as 3100Hz bandwidth, but the pitch is ca 1000Hz and not too pleasant to listen to, would rather prefer 500Hz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4318 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 09:14:54 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:14:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 22181 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 08:14:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 08:14:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188cMS-00038t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:13:28 +0000 Received: from [193.212.240.200] (helo=virus-out.ttyl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188cMR-00038k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:13:27 +0000 Received: from [134.47.162.190] by virusscan.ttyl.com with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:12:53 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.92]) by tns-fbu-22-209.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:12:53 +0100 Received: from tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.162.91]) by tns-fbu-22-214.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:12:52 +0100 Received: from TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no ([134.47.164.201]) by tns-fbu-22-212.corp.telenor.no with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4453); Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:12:52 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:12:51 +0100 Message-ID: <2D280BB697C7EE4C979C5C89925418EF368F37@TNS-FBU-2E-003.corp.telenor.no> Thread-Topic: Re: SPM-12 & PS12 Thread-Index: AcKBJ6tq0+pHTx1eTM6Z5euNms8u2ACscSWg From: jan-martin.noding@telenor.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2002 08:12:52.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8DEAD40:01C283D9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Siemens D2006 Selective Level Meter/Pelelmesser X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Does somebody know if it is possible to change the pitch? It has 80Hz as well as 3100Hz bandwidth, but the pitch is ca 1000Hz and not too pleasant to listen to, would rather prefer 500Hz 73, Jan_Martin LA8AK (in JO38XC) - Collector of German WW2 Radio equipment N4623-Kristiansand (tel.: +47-380-87178) http://www.laud.no/la6nca/la8ak/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17637 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 08:33:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 08:33:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 12567 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Nov 2002 09:37:48 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 09:37:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188cf6-0003Jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:32:44 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188cf5-0003Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:32:43 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gA48WDB4048856 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 09:32:13 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021104093515.00b3e000@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:38:08 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <014801c281dc$c4932100$0700000a@parissn2> References: <002d01c2819b$ac403c00$0504210a@c.scope> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" from Rik Strobbe (bug bear virus again!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello all, I doublechecked my PC today, it seems to be "clean". Further investigation showed that the infected mail was send from rik.strobbe@nexo.es, that is certainly not my e-mail adress. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5244 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 00:36:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 00:36:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 22763 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2002 00:36:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2002 00:36:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188VAf-0002A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:32:49 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188VAf-00029r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:32:49 +0000 Received: from host213-122-181-109.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.181.109] helo=main) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188VAe-0004UR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2002 00:32:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c28399$a1685740$6db57ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:02:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: re strange call....Propagation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, thanks Fabian, I thought it looked like a locator format but the signal must have been smashed up quite badly for me to read a Y and J....very strange. I did have periods of TV SMPSU qrm......I think the YO who might be active on the band is YO2IS ?? DL1VHF was not as strong as OH5UFO, who was solid and audible, all morning. Anyway, thanks All for an interesting morning. I am not sure why propagation should be good today except that there has been a lot of geomagnetic activity recently and the "precipitated electrons" can often enhance daytime D-layer propagation and at the same time destroy the normal good night-time conditions. Maybe it wasn't good maybe it was just that there was some good activity and a strong station (Reino or DL1EIE ) at the heart of it. To Laurie...I haven't a clue what's happening an the Atlantic path it may not be too good ....but then again it might not be too bad....I will look back in advance of Wednesday and see what it the run-up looks like. I have been taking some plots of SXV which are in a separate page on my web site, the overnight signal looks quite badly cut up at the moment, but the peak levels are not too bad, so it may only be multipath rather than gross absorption....it may be worth a try if you are set up and it doesnt require too much extra effort, as this kind of conditions could bunt your signal up if you are lucky enough to catch it right. The problem is that my aerial is all messed up in the trees still, after the gale, (it is probably higher than it was when it was strung properly !! and without bows and arrows and catapults ) so I am not sure of the calibrated levels recorded. I got the pole down today and will try to put it back to normal during the week (slight bend in the pole straightened using the "armstrong method" which will probably "work harden" it a bit so it will probably shatter completely next time !! ) The top section (15ft) is 1.5 in TV aerial mast which isnt really strong enough, but acts as the "weak link" bending or breaking before the scaffold poles takes too much strain. Well, it worked this time. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1147 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 23:23:01 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 23:23:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16454 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 23:22:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 23:22:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188U4D-0001zN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:22:05 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188U4D-0001zE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:22:05 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h029108.nexo.es [195.235.29.108]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA07382 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:22:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002401c2838f$ca191a80$6c1debc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002701c28381$3709bc80$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 00:21:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.bankinter.es id AAA07382 Subject: LF: Re: Re.73kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi Laurie and all: I didn´t understand if your next Wednesday transmission will be on 73 or on137 KHz. Will Ed transmit from RU6LWZ Machta site? 73 de José Manuel, EA1PX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 10:36 PM Subject: LF: Re.73kHz > Many thanks to all who reported on my 73kHz signals this morning. > Recieving a report makes the effort worth while. > Special thanks to Jose, pleased to be the first station you have heard on > 73.You are my best CW DX. > I am planning to be active again Wednesday next 6thNov. > 1) Attempt to contact RU6LA, > QRSS10 1900-2000 UTC > QRSS30 2000-2100 UTC > 2)If conditions look promising,will transmit 2200-0700 > for a T/A attempt,this to be confirmed on the day. > 73 Laurie. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 698 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 21:30:08 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 21:30:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23134 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 21:31:15 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 21:31:15 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188SJl-0001ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:30:01 +0000 Received: from [195.92.195.173] (helo=cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188SJk-0001gU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:30:01 +0000 Received: from modem-25.angrenost.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.112.153] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188SJj-0000ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 21:29:59 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c28381$3709bc80$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:36:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re.73kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Many thanks to all who reported on my 73kHz signals this morning. Recieving a report makes the effort worth while. Special thanks to Jose, pleased to be the first station you have heard on 73.You are my best CW DX. I am planning to be active again Wednesday next 6thNov. 1) Attempt to contact RU6LA, QRSS10 1900-2000 UTC QRSS30 2000-2100 UTC 2)If conditions look promising,will transmit 2200-0700 for a T/A attempt,this to be confirmed on the day. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1373 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 18:52:38 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 18:52:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 16862 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 19:59:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 19:59:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188Psn-0001LL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:54:01 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.149] (helo=moutvdom.kundenserver.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188Psm-0001LC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:54:00 +0000 Received: from [212.227.126.221] (helo=mrvdomng.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188Psl-0006Ft-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:53:59 +0100 Received: from [217.1.65.206] (helo=diolog.de) by mrvdomng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188Psl-000119-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 19:54:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3DC56D4E.67195C9C@diolog.de> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:39:10 +0000 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002c01c2833e$7da56ec0$e8997ad5@main> Subject: Re: LF: activity Sun 3rd Nov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.4 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, UPPERCASE_25_50,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group > DN1VLF wkg YO62QL ??(not seen) It was JO62QL and that is the WW-Locator of DN1VLF, I guess (Berlin). 73, Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20920 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 18:04:13 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 18:04:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 766 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 18:03:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 18:03:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188P4y-0001D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:02:32 +0000 Received: from [194.134.35.176] (helo=smtp5.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188P4y-0001Cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:02:32 +0000 Received: from nl9222@wanadoo (p2465.vwr.wanadoo.nl [194.134.217.170]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id B6DFC751D1 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:02:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:2:33 +0100 From: "K.Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021103180229.B6DFC751D1@smtp5.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Received Sunday [Reports] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.8 required=5.0tests=DATE_IN_PAST_12_24,INVALID_DATE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, UPPERCASE_25_50version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: *** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Reports [Sunday 136Khz only] DN1VLF QRSS -31.5dB OH5UFO QRSS -29.5dB DJ2LF QRSS -35.5dB DK1IS QRSS -38.8dB F6BWO QRSS -33.6dB DF6NM HELL -31.3dB IK5ZPV QRSS -45.1dB 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5407 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 17:48:49 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 17:48:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3781 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 16:48:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 16:48:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188NuF-00010f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 16:47:23 +0000 Received: from [195.110.100.4] (helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 188Nu7-00010U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 16:47:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 3329 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 16:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.74) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 16:46:38 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c28358$6086c180$4a676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> <002901c2832e$3f0ac580$0696ffbe@veronique> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 17:44:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: R: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hi Marc, Marcus and all
        Thanks for measurements made on my signal this morning, also DF6NM received my signals very well. The QSO I've made with OH5UFO was very fine, good signals both side, a great surprise for me to be received in Finland, over more than 2100 Km path, in spite of my little ERP. Evidently the propagation was very good ! Thanks again and 73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://dai5tgc.dadacasa.supereva.it
-----Messaggio Originale-----
Da: f5maf
Data invio: domenica 3 novembre 2002 12.43
Oggetto: Re: LF: Rcvd signals

This morning (9:45) good signal from :
OH1UFO -94 dB, ref : -75dB (138.83)
I5TGC (9:45) : -100dB
A signal with 73 SK at the endv (10:30), on 137.69 : -95 dB.
But since 11:00 qrm from TV and other.
I saw others stations, but more qrm.
Antenna works well, soon on the air.
73 Marc
F5MAF
JN03PP
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals

Hi José,

mni tnx for the report - Reino OH1UFO and myself had a nice QSO a few minutes ago (20:50 to 22:11). He was transmitting QRSS around 137693Hz, and I answered in slow DFCW mode (137692 dit and 137694 dah, duty cycle 6s on / 2s off). Reino's outstanding signal  was OO and audible here, peaking abt 1µV/m with some QSB. At 21:40 he was sending his locator (KP11OO).

73 de Markus, DF6NM
QTH Nuernberg, JN59NK

Hi all:

I´m receiving weak signals, at 21.40 UTC, on 137.693 KHz, but I can´t identify them.

73, José Manuel, EA1PX

 
 

---
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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20317 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 17:27:44 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 17:27:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 74 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 17:26:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 17:26:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188OVo-000174-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:26:12 +0000 Received: from [194.25.134.20] (helo=mailout08.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188OVo-00016v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 17:26:12 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 188OVd-0004Jt-0E; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 18:26:01 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.52.11]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 188OVY-0LyGHoC; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:25:56 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> <000201c282d6$10a5aaa0$201bebc3@BI57429bankinter> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 18:25:56 +0100 Message-ID: <188OVY-0LyGHoC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_TONLINEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group José Manuel schrieb: > Hi Markus, Reino and all: > > I saw the final of your QSO with Reino on 137.693,DFCW/QRSS3, until 22.10. > It´s incredible for me, but I copied the Reino´s signals at 2900 Km! > I copied then CQ´s of both of you, one of them at the same time ( I copied > the call of Reino as OH5UFO). > I made some captures of the signals. > > 73 de José Manuel, EA1PX-loc IN53TI > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MarkusVester@aol.com > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:37 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals > > > Hi José, > > mni tnx for the report - Reino OH1UFO and myself had a nice QSO a few > minutes ago (20:50 to 22:11). He was transmitting QRSS around 137693Hz, and > I answered in slow DFCW mode (137692 dit and 137694 dah, duty cycle 6s on / > 2s off). Reino's outstanding signal was OO and audible here, peaking abt > 1µV/m with some QSB. At 21:40 he was sending his locator (KP11OO). > > 73 de Markus, DF6NM > QTH Nuernberg, JN59NK > Hi all, ........... and the night before I had a nice cw (manuell) QSO with Reino/OH1TN. both sides 579 over a distance of 1115km! both long wires as aerials (Reino 500m and hr 340m) and 100W tx output. sgns of stns of less distance were relatively weak. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16856 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 15:17:06 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 15:17:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28660 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 15:15:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 15:15:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188MPH-0000qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:11:19 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.45] (helo=mta5-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188MPG-0000qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:11:18 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.209.151]) by mta5-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021103151106.VNLP570.mta5-svc.business.ntl.com@ian> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:11:06 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c2834b$72405600$97d1fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 15:11:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 KHz Activity. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040800090702030406070103" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040800090702030406070103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bingo! - and just in time as I am completely out of four letter words and having to invent new ones.. Copied G3AGC in QRSS this morning and saw other hand speed Morse transmissions but actually heard nothing - didn't dare adjust anything while there was a trace on the screen. 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by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 14:52:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 14:52:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188L5o-0000hN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:47:08 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.165] (helo=imo-m10.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188L5n-0000hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:47:07 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.145.1d8b4c3 (4262) for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <145.1d8b4c3.2af682d7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:47:03 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: LF: QRSS: fb condx Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.9 required=5.0tests=NO_REAL_NAME,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all,

wet weather but good propagation on 137kHz today, and plenty of fun in the qrss band - I saw OH5UFO, I5TGC, DL3JMM, DJ2LF, DN1VLF, DK1IS, F6BWO and now IK5ZPV, all OO. Also there was a weak unidentified station from a westerly direction, testing shortly between 13:05 and 13:10 on 137702.

73 de Markus
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8734 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 13:41:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 13:41:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 27274 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 13:40:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 13:40:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188KzE-0000eW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:40:20 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188KzE-0000eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:40:20 +0000 Received: from host213-122-153-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.153.232] helo=main) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188KzD-0005ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c2833e$7da56ec0$e8997ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:38:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: activity Sun 3rd Nov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_MONTH,SUBJECT_MONTH_2, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, I got wiped off 73k by a TV at 0903, so set up the web-capture page and ran it for most of the morning. There was a lot of activity in Germany but most not heard in the UK (by me at least) Reino was working loads of the weak ones on qrss3, and was a good steady signal for most of the morning. One interesting point is that he seemed to get stronger as the morning progressed. This is in line with the daytime skywave plots that Brian collects from DCF39. Best day-time signals are when the sun is overhead (or due south at this time of year) at the mid-path point. As I have said before....early morning ain't necessarily the best time. The file below is what I use to annotate the web cappture page....no times but it starts at about 0910z and finishes about 1220z. DL1EIE 136.5 ON6ND136.37 wkg F6BWO F6CWN QRSS 137.48 G6RO cq 136.82 OH5UFO qrss 137.72 G3OLB 136.45 G3XIZ 136.50. DN1VLF 137.7qrss G3OLB 136.45.OH5UFO wkg DL3JMM DL1EIE 136.46. DN1VLF qrss 137.7 DN1VLF wkg YO62QL ??(not seen) G6RO 136.8.G3XIZ clg DL1EIE 136.5 DF0WD 136.5 cq. DJ2LF qrss 137.72 UFO wkg 2LF & DK1IS anything above 137.4 is QRSS3 if not stated. Jeff F6BWO was around later also. Not too many UK stations about though. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com web capture page http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/periodic.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17152 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 13:03:56 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 13:03:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12254 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 14:08:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 14:08:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188KOt-0000Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:02:47 +0000 Received: from [212.1.130.1] (helo=smtp-1.visp.telinco.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188KOs-0000VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 13:02:46 +0000 Received: from [212.1.152.127] (helo=pcuser) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 188KIr-00050S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 12:56:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c28339$451d0720$7f9801d4@pcuser> From: "Hugh Burnham" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 13:01:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: G3AQC received here this morning Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060803020003070500050609" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060803020003070500050609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie, Your QRSS signal received here (Wye, near Ashford in Kent) at 09:06 UTC (Argo screen clip attached). Clip shows AQC followed by K. I think you were sending some "ordinary" morse at first (there was a faint, fuzzy line in Argo before the QRSS) - but I couldn't hear anything through the speaker. I think somebody replied to you, but I can't make out the morse characters. I couldn't stay on radio very long because we had to out. Ant: cardboard box 50cm x 50cm wound with 12 turns of 7/0.2 and resonated to 73kHz with22nF. 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4Q0rw7o1nrelSXUVyIxIczFlJ+hqzbfEjXtZETahDbO1qhCbGlRTx/EquFb8RWn8Tv8AkTrT /r2H8q4HQvuyf7pr1Ma/Y1YqGiaFbQiull1HVLy6ku54pDyDFJjbz0Gc8VFpHhqy1G7aK5ub rg8sJBk/mKnh/wCPu7+n9av+GP8Aj/krKFGFSraauODsjb8Caf4duPFbeEb7wnpN3bG3LieZ HMwPrkMB+lcj4lupfD/iC5WwEIjsrrbDEYE2qOewArsfAH/JVv8At0NcT8QP+Rg1T/r8/wAa 63CKwkpJap6Cj/EszY8GrF468XLDrsEPlJjKQxKofnvxmrup65b+G/Enk6H4d0u0IkESOFkb Z23BWcru9yDVP4N/8jkfw/nVbxd/yNf/AG9L/OssJJzpJy1dyZrWx98/8Ev59Qn/AGstYXUN TuL1k+Ht4VeYICM3un8YRQP0r9XCSuR6DNflD/wS9/5O11r/ALJ5df8Apbp9fq83U/7tfnvE ySzKaXkephf4aEV2Oz/a6+3BpUYlM9OcfrimL/yx+g/kadF/qx/vf1rwDoFRiQPfmn1HF0X6 D+VSUmAA/9k= --------------060803020003070500050609-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6669 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 11:41:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 11:41:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 14129 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 11:41:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 11:41:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188J6L-0000NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:39:33 +0000 Received: from [213.228.0.44] (helo=postfix3-1.free.fr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188J6K-0000NB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:39:32 +0000 Received: from veronique (toulouse-2-a7-62-147-211-155.dial.proxad.net [62.147.211.155]) by postfix3-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id F33D3D9EE1 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:39:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002901c2832e$3f0ac580$0696ffbe@veronique> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:43:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
This morning (9:45) good signal from :
OH1UFO -94 dB, ref : -75dB (138.83)
I5TGC (9:45) : -100dB
A signal with 73 SK at the endv (10:30), on 137.69 : -95 dB.
But since 11:00 qrm from TV and other.
I saw others stations, but more qrm.
Antenna works well, soon on the air.
73 Marc
F5MAF
JN03PP
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals

Hi José,

mni tnx for the report - Reino OH1UFO and myself had a nice QSO a few minutes ago (20:50 to 22:11). He was transmitting QRSS around 137693Hz, and I answered in slow DFCW mode (137692 dit and 137694 dah, duty cycle 6s on / 2s off). Reino's outstanding signal  was OO and audible here, peaking abt 1µV/m with some QSB. At 21:40 he was sending his locator (KP11OO).

73 de Markus, DF6NM
QTH Nuernberg, JN59NK

Hi all:

I´m receiving weak signals, at 21.40 UTC, on 137.693 KHz, but I can´t identify them.

73, José Manuel, EA1PX

 
 

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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26936 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 10:36:08 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:36:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 22309 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 10:35:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:35:52 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188I6S-0000Fy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:35:36 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188I6S-0000Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:35:36 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h168099.nexo.es [195.235.168.99]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA03361 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:31:50 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <003701c28324$2d242500$081aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:29:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Report F6CWA Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all:
 
Received CQ from F6CWA on 137.488 KHz, QRSS3, at 10.17 UTC. I think he´s listening on 137.700.
 
73, José Manuel, EA1PX, loc IN53TI
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15795 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 10:31:34 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:31:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 2927 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 10:33:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:33:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188I3a-0000DN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:32:38 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188I3a-0000DE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:32:38 +0000 Received: from host217-35-43-2.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.43.2] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188I3Z-0004Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:32:38 +0000 Message-ID: <003801c28324$6dc6c680$25119fd4@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:33:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Special LF event Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Message received from Eddi DK3UZ
 

   To commemorate its 50th anniversary Germany's National Weather Service
(Deutscher Wetterdienst - DWD) will stage an LF / Amateur Radio crossband
event. DDH47 located in Pinneberg near Hamburg will transmit on 147.3kHz
and QSX on 3565, 7025 and, if still open, 14052kHz. Amateurs are asked to
send RST and their locator. The event will start on Friday, 2002-11-08
2230UTC and end on Saturday, 2002-11-09 0520UTC. From hh15-hh18 and hh45-
hh48 QRSS3 transmissions will be made. DDH47 runs 15kW into a 72m high
vertical with a 3-wire top capacity. Pse see also www.eham.net calendar
for further information.

   73, Eddi ._._.
--
 
 
 
Sorry if someone's posted this before.
 
Dave
G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9801 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:50:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:50:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26617 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:49:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:49:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188HNf-00007B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:49:19 +0000 Received: from [212.227.126.188] (helo=moutng.kundenserver.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188HNf-000072-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:49:19 +0000 Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188H7O-0003O9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:32:30 +0100 Received: from [62.158.74.92] (helo=W1KW) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188H7O-0005xI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 10:32:30 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c2831b$dae40f10$fe78a8c0@W1KW> From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020924214033.02b88230@POP2.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:31:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re LDE event..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hello Larry, in your mail to Alan, that went over the reflector, you mentioned an LDE event. I heard you are investigating LDE events, is there any website where those events are published? It always fascinated me when I heard about those strange delayed echos, although I never have been able to observe one myself. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Kayser" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:43 AM Subject: LF: Re LDE event..... > > Alan: > > Thank You for thinking of me, and for making the effort to send on the LDE > event in VK. > > Sir, you are a treasure, a person who keeps giving and giving, I hope that > this Thank You will be just a tiny token of my appreciation for your > efforts over the last few years. > > I hope your having a good day, it is sure a pleasure to write this public > note of thanks for your efforts. > > Larry > VA3LK > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21199 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:39:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:39:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 734 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:41:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:41:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188HGA-0008Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:41:34 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.46] (helo=mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188HGA-0008Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:41:34 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.29]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021103094131.WRAL18329.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:41:31 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c2831d$288cc6c0$1d6468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001001c28319$530bd2a0$081aebc3@BI57429bankinter> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:41:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73 KHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group EA1PX wrote: >Strong signal on 71.750 KHz sending CQ G3AQC K at 9.02 UTC. It´s the first signal that I copy on the band. Jose, I will be transmitting QRSS3 on 71.650kHz most of Sunday morning. Can you check for my sigs, please? I will be much weaker than Laurie, though. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3689 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:38:24 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:38:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 19547 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:37:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:37:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188HCS-0008Pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:37:44 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.44] (helo=mta4-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188HCR-0008Pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:37:43 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.232.49]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021103093743.QMLO21311.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:37:43 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2831c$9f1d0f80$31e8fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:36:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All
One stn heard this morning, G3AQC on 73.76 khz 559 at 0908 utc. Using a 90 metre vertical loop resonant on 73 khz but not optimum for his direction, broadside to the signal.
No other signals heard around this time.
 
CQ De G3AQC qsx 136 0908z 031102
 
 
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15059 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:36:40 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:36:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 13446 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 10:42:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:42:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188HCC-0008PX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:37:28 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188HCB-0008PO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:37:27 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-18.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.18] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 188HCA-000CBH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:37:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c2831c$9795e020$12ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000b01c282ac$25e14020$9b6868d5@oemcomputer> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:35:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Mike said: > > I put out a beacon using QRSS3 today (Saturday) and will do the same > tomorrow morning around 0800 on 71.650kHz. Any reports would be appreciated. QRSS signal clearly audible at around S4. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4706 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:20:16 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:20:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 14932 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:20:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:20:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188Guy-0008Lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:19:40 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.92] (helo=carbon.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188Guy-0008LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:19:40 +0000 Received: from host62-6-70-197.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.70.197] helo=jackie) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188Gux-0005Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:19:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2831a$7bee5340$c546063e@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004901c281e8$7b4c7800$b1a3edc2@oemuser> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 09:22:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Telephone lines pickup Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I'm thinking of running a top loading wire parallel to (many) telephone wires, about 1m from them over a distance of about 20-25m. Does anyone have experience of any effects iin either direction? Thanks Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24843 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:15:11 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:15:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 5838 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 09:14:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 09:14:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188Gpk-0008IM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:14:16 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188Gpj-0008ID-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 09:14:15 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h026008.nexo.es [195.235.26.8]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA26125 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:14:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001001c28319$530bd2a0$081aebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 10:12:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73 KHz Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Laurie and all:
 
Strong signal on 71.750 KHz sending CQ G3AQC K at 9.02 UTC. It´s the first signal that I copy on the band.
 
73 de José Manuel, EA1PX, loc IN53TI
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31418 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 08:55:09 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 08:55:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 23058 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 10:01:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 10:01:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 188GVp-0008E2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:53:41 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 188GVp-0008Dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:53:41 +0000 Received: from host213-122-56-84.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.56.84] helo=main) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 188GVo-0005jD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 08:53:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c28316$6e755e60$54387ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 08:52:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, Nice signals from Peter G3LDO and Laurie G3AQC (about 100Hz higher) this morning at 0849 both 579 in Ipswich....nice to hear both sides of an aural qso on 73k. Not the first but a rare event !! Cheers and thanks de Alan G3NYK JO02PB alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19448 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 02:14:57 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 02:14:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 9756 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 02:18:52 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 02:18:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1889Jk-0006Gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:12:44 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1889Jj-0006Gg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2002 01:12:43 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h027032.nexo.es [195.235.27.32]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA22101 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2002 02:12:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000201c282d6$10a5aaa0$201bebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 02:07:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MAILTO_LINK,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Markus, Reino and all:
 
I saw  the final of your QSO with Reino on 137.693,DFCW/QRSS3, until 22.10. It´s incredible for me, but I copied the Reino´s signals at 2900 Km!
I copied then CQ´s of both of you, one of them at the same time ( I copied the call of Reino as OH5UFO).
I made some captures of the signals.
 
73 de José Manuel, EA1PX-loc IN53TI
 
 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals

Hi José,

mni tnx for the report - Reino OH1UFO and myself had a nice QSO a few minutes ago (20:50 to 22:11). He was transmitting QRSS around 137693Hz, and I answered in slow DFCW mode (137692 dit and 137694 dah, duty cycle 6s on / 2s off). Reino's outstanding signal  was OO and audible here, peaking abt 1µV/m with some QSB. At 21:40 he was sending his locator (KP11OO).

73 de Markus, DF6NM
QTH Nuernberg, JN59NK

Hi all:

I´m receiving weak signals, at 21.40 UTC, on 137.693 KHz, but I can´t identify them.

73, José Manuel, EA1PX


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20446 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2002 00:02:07 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 00:02:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10575 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Nov 2002 00:06:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2002 00:06:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1887G4-00064R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:00:48 +0000 Received: from [195.92.193.210] (helo=cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1887G3-00064I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:00:47 +0000 Received: from modem-118.mississippi.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.75.118] helo=f3a3a2) by cmailm2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1887G2-000761-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 23:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c282c4$baf03320$ea00a8c0@f3a3a2> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:06:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re.73 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group I will be on again tomorrow morning at about 0900, freq 71.75kHz. I will listen on 73 and later on 136 for replies. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23955 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 22:36:29 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 22:36:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9395 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 22:38:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 22:38:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1886tj-0005zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:37:43 +0000 Received: from [64.12.136.165] (helo=imo-m10.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1886tj-0005zU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:37:43 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.50.144ef922 (4012) for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:37:39 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <50.144ef922.2af5adb3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 17:37:39 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi José,

mni tnx for the report - Reino OH1UFO and myself had a nice QSO a few minutes ago (20:50 to 22:11). He was transmitting QRSS around 137693Hz, and I answered in slow DFCW mode (137692 dit and 137694 dah, duty cycle 6s on / 2s off). Reino's outstanding signal  was OO and audible here, peaking abt 1µV/m with some QSB. At 21:40 he was sending his locator (KP11OO).

73 de Markus, DF6NM
QTH Nuernberg, JN59NK

Hi all:

I´m receiving weak signals, at 21.40 UTC, on 137.693 KHz, but I can´t identify them.

73, José Manuel, EA1PX


 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24234 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 22:01:55 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 22:01:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12466 invoked by uid 10001); 2 Nov 2002 23:05:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 23:05:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1886Ju-0005uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:00:42 +0000 Received: from [195.235.30.34] (helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1886Ju-0005u3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 22:00:42 +0000 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h169233.nexo.es [195.235.169.233]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA08389 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 23:00:41 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000001c282bb$3d3b8000$e9a9ebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 22:58:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Rcvd signals Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all:
 
I´m receiving weak signals, at 21.40 UTC, on 137.693 KHz, but I can´t identify them.
 
73, José Manuel, EA1PX
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22955 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 20:13:29 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 20:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 10442 invoked by uid 10001); 2 Nov 2002 21:17:02 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 21:17:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1884cJ-0005jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:11:35 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.42] (helo=mta02-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1884cJ-0005ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 20:11:35 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.104.155]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021102201133.BNPQ459.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:11:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c282ac$25e14020$9b6868d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:12:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: 73kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Received a good 579 signal from Laurie, G3AQC, this morning on 73kHz, though I was too late to hear Peter, G3LDO. I put out a beacon using QRSS3 today (Saturday) and will do the same tomorrow morning around 0800 on 71.650kHz. Any reports would be appreciated. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6454 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 19:50:57 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 19:50:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22452 invoked by uid 10001); 2 Nov 2002 19:54:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 19:54:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 1883Kf-0005bK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 18:49:17 +0000 Received: from [194.134.35.175] (helo=smtp4.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 1883Kf-0005bB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 18:49:17 +0000 Received: from nl9222@wanadoo (rot2-p0341.dial.wanadoo.nl [62.234.199.85]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C7A53F023 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:49:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 19:49:23 +0100 From: "K.Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <20021102184913.8C7A53F023@smtp4.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Dits among the dentures Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group TOJO's TEETH: Dits among the dentures A post-war prank literally had Japan's vanquished World War II military leader chewing on words - the words "Remember Pearl Harbor." A U.S. Navy dentist drilled the message in Morse code into General Hideki Tojo's dentures during Tojo's imprisonment. And for the next three months, until the secret leaked out, Tojo masticated his sushi on the message. "It wasn't done in anger," recalled E.J. "Jack" Mallory, who made the dentures. "It's just that not many people had the chance to put those words into his mouth." Amateur Radio operator Mallory knew that if he wrote the words out, and they were discovered, he could be court marshaled. That's why he used Morse. George Foster, who died in 1990, was in on the secret. His assignment was to provide dental services at Sugama Prison, near Tokyo, where he extracted Tojo's teeth. "I figured it was my duty to carry out my orders," Foster wrote in 1988, "but that didn't mean I couldn't have some fun." Later, after the dentures were installed, Mallory and Foster took some buddies on an excursion to the prison to show off their masterpiece. "The only others in on this were my dentist roommates, all sworn to secrecy," Mallory said, " but the secret was too juicy. One of them mentioned the escapade in a letter to his parents in Texas. They told his brother, who broadcast the story on a local radio station. Within days, the tale of Tojo's teeth was on radio stations everywhere." Mallory confessed to his commanding officer, who told him to hide while the story was denied. (Some things never change. ed.) Using a crude grinder, Mallory removed the dots and dashes just in time. The next morning, a furious colonel called Mallory and his roommate. He barked, "Is it true that the message 'Remember Pearl Harbor' is inscribed in Tojo's dentures?" "No, sir!" the men answered truthfully. Mallory never learned whether Tojo found out about the trick, which the Japanese press ignored. But a dentist who succeeded Mallory told him the general complained about the dentures' looser fit. Mallory ran a dental practice near Sacramento until he retired in 1985. He has talked openly about the prank ever since he mustered out of the Navy. And there is a display about it in the Navy Dental Corps Historical Museum. In 1969, when Mallory returned to Japan for a reunion with Japanese dentists, he told them the tale over dinner. "They thought it was the funniest thing," Mallory said, "and they asked, 'Why didn't you tell us before?"' In 1948, Tojo, who had approved the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor that drew the U.S. into the war, and had been convicted of war crimes, was executed. = = = >From the September '95 North Jersey DXA 'NJDXA Newsletter' Bob Greenquist, K2GHV, Editor - who notes: Research indicates that 'Mallory' was probably N4ZN, who, according the ARRL, is now a Silent Key. 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20557 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 14:47:42 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 14:47:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 25783 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 14:46:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 14:46:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187zX1-0005DT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:45:47 +0000 Received: from [212.135.6.13] (helo=smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187zX1-0005DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:45:47 +0000 Received: from tnt-13-107.easynet.co.uk ([212.134.22.107] helo=erica) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 187zX0-000EM5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:45:46 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c2827e$7e76cbc0$5ec428c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021102094346.00a4e300@POP3.freeler.nl> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:44:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: G3LDO 0n 73kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Dick Rollema said: >At this moment (0840 UTC) I hear G3LDO with CQ on 73kHz: RST 359 with the aerial system tuned to 136kHz. Thanks for the report Dick. Although I was sending a CQ I wasn't listening much because I had to go out at 0900. I will try to be on at 0800UTC tomorrow morning (Sunday 3/11) and will listen at the bottom end of the 73kHz band and also the 136kHz band. I have cleaned all the insulators. The top support insulators showed slight damage due to salt induced arcing so I have put on a very fine coat of silicon grease on them to see if this will help. What seems to happen is that a salt coated insulator still works OK but arcs over if it is raining when the transmitter is on. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27833 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 13:45:30 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 13:45:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 12586 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 13:43:58 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 13:43:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187yXe-00054W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:42:22 +0000 Received: from [134.58.10.57] (helo=mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187yXe-00054N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 13:42:22 +0000 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail3.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gA2Dfp0j028450 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:41:51 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021102144538.030e9b18@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:47:42 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9C9B@mail.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FW: LF: Capacity hat puzzle Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,IN_REP_TO, OUTLOOK_FW_MSG,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit As mentioned before in e-mails the mail was not sent by me (or my computer). I received similar mails in the past that seemed to come from other lf-group members. They were all stopped by the firewall here.

73, Rik

At 11:41 1/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:

Rik -

You may have a virus.  This message was sent to my work account, which does not get LF reflector messages.  The firewall detected and removed the attachment.

Andy  G4JNT
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12739 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 08:43:13 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 08:43:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5168 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 08:45:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 08:45:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187ttE-0004d8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:44:20 +0000 Received: from [213.218.77.55] (helo=cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187ttD-0004cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:44:19 +0000 Received: from [62.21.147.237] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 187ttC-0002S2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 08:44:19 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021102094346.00a4e300@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 09:46:02 +0100 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: G3LDO 0n 73kHz Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To Peter and All,

At this moment (0840 UTC) I hear G3LDO with CQ on 73kHz: RST 359 with the aerial system tuned to 136kHz.

73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12005 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 00:37:16 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 00:37:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 5416 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2002 00:35:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2002 00:35:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187mFL-0003mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 00:34:39 +0000 Received: from [216.93.66.202] (helo=mail3.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187mFK-0003mi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2002 00:34:38 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d38.as0.mpls0.mn.voyager.net [169.207.102.38]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id gA20YYl82678 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:34:34 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 18:35:42 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9C9B@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: RE: LF: Capacity hat puzzle Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0tests=BIG_FONT,HTML_70_90,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE, HTML_FONT_COLOR_NAME,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_LINK, SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOKversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: ** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

My ISP rejected two messages from his address today saying that they had a specific virus attached. This is what they emailed me

.::MESSAGE STATUS::.

The CoreComm Defender virus filter has detected a virus

and prevented you from becoming infected by destroying

the email message. We have notified the sender of the

infection.

 

.::MESSAGE DETAILS::.

 

   MessageID:  BA004a86b3.00000001.mml

   From:       rik.strobbe@nexo.es

   To:         we0h@antivirus.core.com

   Date:       11/1/2002 6:29:51 AM

   Subject:    Re: LF: Capacity hat puzzle

   Virus:      Virus found - Exploit-MIME.gen.exe

 

.::SUGGESTED ACTIONS::.

No further action is required.

 

 

73’s,

Mike>WE0H

http://www.we0h.us/lf.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Talbot Andrew
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 5:42 AM
To: 'LF Group (E-mail)'
Subject: FW: LF: Capacity hat puzzle

 

Rik -

You may have a virus.  This message was sent to my work account, which does not get LF reflector messages.  The firewall detected and removed the attachment.

Andy  G4JNT

-----Original Message-----
From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@nexo.es]
Sent: 2002 November 01 11:10
To: Unlisted-recipients
Subject: Re: LF: Capacity hat puzzle

RAV AntiVirus has deleted this file because it contained dangerous code!

"The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence"
"is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s)."
"For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, "
"or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is"
"prohibited and may be unlawful."

 

This message scanned for viruses by Corecomm

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18808 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 21:55:13 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 21:55:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6232 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 20:54:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 20:54:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187inh-0003Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:53:53 +0000 Received: from [212.78.193.245] (helo=smtp01.spray.se) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187ing-0003Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:53:52 +0000 Received: from oemuser (t4o940p57.telia.com [194.237.163.177]) by smtp01.spray.se (Postfix) with SMTP id 14FFE4383D for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 22:53:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c281e8$7b4c7800$b1a3edc2@oemuser> From: "Urban ekholm" To: "RSGB-LF-group" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:51:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Loop preamplifier Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUPERLONG_LINE,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello all !
 
I have made some experimenting with the loop preamplifier described on page 29-30 in the Low Frequency Experimenters Handbook and below I share my results. 
 
In the evenings I have had severe crossmodulation in the following way:
 
Radio Sweden on 1179khz mixes with a station in Norway on 1314 and sometimes also with a station in Germany on 1044. Both giving a difference frequency of 135,0khz. The sidebands can be heard in the lower part of the lf-band and can be very strong in the evening with me, sometimes with the swedish, norwegian and german languages to be heard at the same time ! A wonderful experience !
 
How the mw signals come in to the preamp is a mystery as the amplifier is connected close to the loop and the loop Q is about 110. I have tried to suppress 1179 with a resonant circuit in various configurations however no change was noted.

Anyway, I have changed the preamplifier circuit somewhat and the cross modulation now seems to have decreased a lot (not bothersome anymore) while the gain seems to be about the same (I have no means of measuring the gain). At least DCF has the same strength. Besides the mains noise seems to have decreased very much, possibly due to the much higher standing current in the FET:s. 
One example is the noise generated by the diodes in the rectifiers for the TX power supply (yes, I have capacitors, 0.1uF, across each diode). Earlier I always had to switch off mains to the tx  while listening. This is no longer necessary. This noise has completely disappeared. The band seems overall much quieter.
 
The following items have been changed:
 
The 2N3819:s are replaced by high current FET:s BF246C (the same pinout).
R3 and R4 are decreased from 2.2k to 270ohms
The source lead in each FET is broken up and 150 ohm (see below though) in parallel with 0.1uF are inserted.
The leads between the drains of the FET:s to the bases of the 2N2222:s are broken up and 47k in parallell with 0.1 uF are inserted.
R5 is decreased from 1k to 180 ohms.
 
In my version I had to adjust one of the 150ohm resistors in the FET sources to obtain approximately the same currents through each FET resulting in that on one of the FET:s 150ohms had to be replaced by 120 ohms. To check this, measure the voltage on each drain. On the one with 150 ohm the drain voltage was exactly 6V while on the other 6.6V. Decreasing to 120 ohms resulted in 6V on both drains. No other adjustments seem to be necessary. 
 
The current consumption has now increased to about 72mA at 13.8V, divided into about 26mA through each FET and the rest through the 2N2222:s. The resistance of the 1mH choke now has some impact on the voltage to the transistors so I had to replace mine with a one with lower resistance than the one originally used..
 
Hope this might help someone with the same problems as me.
 
Have a nice weekend !
 
73 de SM5EUF / Urban  
 
 
 
  
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12416 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 21:16:18 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 21:16:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15719 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 21:14:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 21:14:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187j7X-0003Gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:14:23 +0000 Received: from [152.163.225.105] (helo=imo-r09.mx.aol.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187j7W-0003Gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 21:14:22 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id l.cc.146e3ad1 (4262) for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:13:46 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 16:13:46 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows DE sub 10501 Subject: Re: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle": fen-net Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0tests=MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_AOLversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Stewart and group,

I have just had talked to Walter DJ2LF on the phone. We had in fact reinstalled the OS on his computer in September, and named it "PCVONWALTER" (not "PC"). I crosschecked this with the headers of several private messages Walter has sent to me since, and an hour ago we actually verified that the name of his machine has not been changed.

"hugo.fen-net.de" is the dial-in server of the regional provider "Freenet Erlangen-Nuernberg". So if you are using fen-net and you are on the reflector, please check if your machine's name is "PC" (e.g. Start-Einstellungen-Systemsteuerung-Netzwerk-Identifikation-Computername on a German language Win98).

Greetings
Markus, DF6NM

In einer eMail vom 01.11.02 20:30:04 (MEZ) Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt sn@scgroup.com:


Hugh is also correct about the fen-net.de origin.  There are three things
about a Bugbear message that are not faked:  The outgoing mail server (here
hugo.fen-net.de aka mail.fen-net.de) is the one normally used by the victim.
The IP address (here dialin-nbg-018.fen-net.de [212.204.116.18]) is the
address the machine had when the virus was sent.  And the machine name
(here 'PC') is also not forged.


 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12334 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 21:00:19 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 21:00:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 28098 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 19:59:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 19:59:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187hwi-0002yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:59:08 +0000 Received: from [62.253.164.43] (helo=mta3-svc.business.ntl.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187hwh-0002yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:59:07 +0000 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.196]) by mta3-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021101195906.OMGI15439.mta3-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:59:06 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c281e1$1a05af00$c4e4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 19:58:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: sxv Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Very strong signal this evening on 135.8 khz
de G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26784 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 19:28:19 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 19:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 16017 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 19:29:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 19:29:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187hSr-0002t7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:28:17 +0000 Received: from [165.254.158.18] (helo=mail.mcf.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187hSr-0002sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 19:28:17 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (213.41.137.138) by mail.mcf.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:28:25 -0500 Message-ID: <014801c281dc$c4932100$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002d01c2819b$ac403c00$0504210a@c.scope> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 20:27:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" from Rik Strobbe (bug bear virus again!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all, The infected message certainly has nothing to do with Rik -- the From: address is forged. Hugh is also correct about the fen-net.de origin. There are three things about a Bugbear message that are not faked: The outgoing mail server (here hugo.fen-net.de aka mail.fen-net.de) is the one normally used by the victim. The IP address (here dialin-nbg-018.fen-net.de [212.204.116.18]) is the address the machine had when the virus was sent. And the machine name (here 'PC') is also not forged. A search through recent postings found only Walter DJ2LF with an address at fen-net.de . But his messages (last one that I had saved was July 28) all came from a machine named 'DEFAULT'. So that machine is not the culprit. IMO, there are two possibilities: Walter got a new computer named 'PC' (or a fresh OS install) and it is infected. More likely, there is another member, in the Nürnberg area, with a fen-net.de address, who has not posted recently, but who has the virus. If this might be you, there is information about bugbear at http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.bugbear@mm.html (Symantec), at http://www.mcafee.com/anti-virus/viruses/bugbear/ (McAfee) or at many other anti-virus sites. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Burnham" To: "LF-Group" Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:41 PM Subject: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" from Rik Strobbe (bug bear virus again!) > Hi all > Norton has just thrown up a Virus Alert (Bugbear) on a message > "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" purporting to be from Rik Strobbe (but > necessarily his machine that is infected). > This is an old message regurgitated by the Virus, to look plausible and > refers to a message dated 18/09/2002 > It seems to have come from the domain name "hugo.fen-net.de" if that means > anything to anyone ... > 73 > Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 31098 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 17:07:04 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 17:07:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23268 invoked by uid 10001); 1 Nov 2002 18:11:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 18:11:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187fDd-0002cR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:04:25 +0000 Received: from [212.35.226.183] (helo=k2.pncl.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187fDc-0002cI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:04:25 +0000 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (148.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.148]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gA1H4Lh7031555 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:04:24 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021101164859.00a3bbb0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 16:50:35 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" In-reply-to: <002d01c2819b$ac403c00$0504210a@c.scope> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" from Rik Strobbe (bug bear virus again!) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000302040202020302060207" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01version=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000302040202020302060207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11:41 01/11/02 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all >Norton has just thrown up a Virus Alert (Bugbear) on a message >"Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" purporting to be from Rik Strobbe (but >necessarily his machine that is infected). >This is an old message regurgitated by the Virus, to look plausible and >refers to a message dated 18/09/2002 >It seems to have come from the domain name "hugo.fen-net.de" if that means >anything to anyone ... >73 >Hugh M0WYE > My AVG also threw it out - contaminated by "I-worm/Bugbear" it said. Walter G3JKV. --------------000302040202020302060207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT11199.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT11199.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 09/10/02 --------------000302040202020302060207-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25695 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 14:23:44 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 14:23:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 20291 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 13:23:05 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 13:23:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187bku-00021W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:22:32 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.46] (helo=mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187bkt-00021N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:22:31 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.38]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021101132230.RLZB18329.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c281a9$d29918a0$266468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:23:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Antenna puzzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group ON7YD wrote: >>>>>>>>> During lunchbreak I simulated your antenna (using MMAMA), making some variations on the topload (always with 3 parallel wires). I guessed your elevated inductance as 1mH. Regardless of the topload configuration the radiation resistance is 0.047 Ohm. The reactive part was : for 3 wires joined at the near end (at the elevated coil) = -j3945 Ohm (297pF) for 3 wires joined at the far end = -j3924 Ohm (298pF) for 3 wires joined at both ends = -j3900 Ohm (300pF) for 3 wires joined in a zig-zag configuration = -j3921 Ohm (298.5pF) According to MMAMA the way you join the wires shouldn't make much change (less than 1%), but I do not know how well MMAMA behaves for very short antennas (the figures I get for simple configurations such as a straight vertical or inverted-L seem to be OK). The most efficient way to increase antenna capacity at a limited space seems to be spiral toploading as described by Alan at : http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/spiraltop.htm MMAMA gives a for a 14m high antenna with a 10 by 10m spiral topload (5 turns) and a 1mH elevated coil: radiation resistance = 0.052 Ohm reactance = -j2871 Ohm (408pF) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Rik, Thanks for those observations (McAfee warned me about the unwelcome attachment). The elevated coil is more like 3mH. The one I am using at present is Litz and has a DC resistance of 5ohms. The frequency increase was caused by removing the bridging wire from the coil end of the three parallel top wires. I concluded that this was not because I reconfigured the top section but because the bridging wire was acting as a capacity hat that affected the coil. This is why I did the experiment this week that led to the fire at the top of the mast. I was trying to increase the capacitance close to the coil. I am sure a 10mm spiral top loading would work as per your simulation, but I have also simulated the reaction of my neighbours and the town council. The computer told me I had been lynched and had no more lives left! Back to the drawing board. 73 Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9608 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 13:33:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 13:33:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 16625 invoked by uid 10001); 1 Nov 2002 14:36:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 14:36:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187btw-00025S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:31:52 +0000 Received: from [62.253.162.46] (helo=mta06-svc.ntlworld.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187btw-00025J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:31:52 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.38]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20021101133151.RUQI18329.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:31:51 +0000 Message-ID: <003501c281ab$209f59a0$266468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000a01c28115$07d9b640$041aebc3@BI57429bankinter> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:32:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: SXV? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0tests=REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group >Is transmission occuping from 135740 to 135840 Hz SXV? >73 de José Manuel, EA1PX Yes. It has been off the air for several months. It can be a useful indication of medium range conditions. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net ==================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13976 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 12:55:50 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 12:55:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 6769 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 12:55:23 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 12:55:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187bJy-0001vc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:54:42 +0000 Received: from [206.46.170.173] (helo=pop016.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187bJx-0001vP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:54:41 +0000 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.48.154]) by pop016.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20021101125407.THYW1630.pop016.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:54:07 -0600 Message-ID: <3DC27974.96F8373E@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 07:54:12 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH PLAIN at pop016.verizon.net from [141.156.48.154] at Fri, 1 Nov 2002 06:54:07 -0600 Subject: LF: Virus alert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.1 required=5.0tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03, TO_LOCALPART_EQ_REAL,X_ACCEPT_LANGversion=2.42 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Rik Strobbe wrote: > ------------------ Virus Warning Message (on gemini3) > > Unbenannt.txt.pif is removed from here because it contains a virus. > > --------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3194 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 12:28:11 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 12:28:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 381 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 12:27:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 12:27:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187arX-0001pM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:25:19 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.111] (helo=gadolinium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 187arX-0001pD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:25:19 +0000 Received: from host213-122-67-223.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.67.223] helo=main) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 187arV-0001Mz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 12:25:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c281a1$affe6dc0$df437ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:24:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Bugbear virus agn...... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all there is another round of this thing using reflector addresses. I have just received two meassages purporting to come via the reflector from Rik. However both are 72k in length which is too long to be accepted by the reflector. Both contain a double extension file. Being slightly "diss" this morning I opened one, and it crashed my Outlook Express (Illegal operation error....that trigger me off that it was trying to run something) McAfee says I am still clean so I have taken the chance of sending this warning. It looks like another reflector subscriber is infected......please scan your systems with updated data (at or after 30/9/02 for McAfee) Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news again Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9638 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:46:07 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:46:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 4776 invoked by uid 10001); 1 Nov 2002 12:50:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 12:50:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187aEz-0001en-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:45:29 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 187aEy-0001eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:45:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 24220 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hugh) (62.60.121.254) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:44:52 -0000 Message-ID: <002d01c2819b$ac403c00$0504210a@c.scope> From: "Hugh Burnham" To: "LF-Group" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:41:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Don't open "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" from Rik Strobbe (bug bear virus again!) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0tests=SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OEversion=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hi all Norton has just thrown up a Virus Alert (Bugbear) on a message "Re:LF:Capacity hat puzzle" purporting to be from Rik Strobbe (but necessarily his machine that is infected). This is an old message regurgitated by the Virus, to look plausible and refers to a message dated 18/09/2002 It seems to have come from the domain name "hugo.fen-net.de" if that means anything to anyone ... 73 Hugh M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11026 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:42:01 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:42:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22808 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:43:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:43:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 187aC9-0001dQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:42:33 +0000 Received: from [192.5.29.49] (helo=relay.dstl.gov.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 187aC9-0001dH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:42:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 29995 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2002 11:42:28 +0000 Received: from warlock.dstl.gov.uk (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Nov 2002 11:42:28 +0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9C9B@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group \(E-mail\)'" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:41:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Subject: FW: LF: Capacity hat puzzle Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070109030806000404090608" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.4 required=5.0tests=EXCHANGE_SERVER,HTML_FONT_COLOR_BLUE,MIME_NULL_BLOCK, MIME_SUSPECT_NAME,OUTLOOK_FW_MSG,SPAM_PHRASE_08_13version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: * Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070109030806000404090608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Rik -

You may have a virus.  This message was sent to my work account, which does not get LF reflector messages.  The firewall detected and removed the attachment.

Andy  G4JNT

-----Original Message-----
From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@nexo.es]
Sent: 2002 November 01 11:10
To: Unlisted-recipients
Subject: Re: LF: Capacity hat puzzle

RAV AntiVirus has deleted this file because it contained dangerous code!
"The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence"
"is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s)."
"For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, "
"or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is"
"prohibited and may be unlawful."
--------------070109030806000404090608 Content-Type: audio/x-midi; name="_________warn.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="_________warn.txt" UkFWIEFudGlWaXJ1cyBoYXMgZGVsZXRlZCB0aGlzIGZpbGUNCiBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IGNvbnRh aW5lZCBkYW5nZXJvdXMgY29kZSENCg0KDQog --------------070109030806000404090608--