From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17015 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 15:23:58 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 15:23:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18474 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 15:23:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 15:23:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17lA4G-0000a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:21:44 +0100 Received: from [194.25.134.81] (helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17lA4F-0000Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:21:44 +0100 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17lA4B-0001gJ-05; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:39 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.50.58]) by fwd08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17lA41-1kCT8zC; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:29 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200208242255.g7OMtcX07436@mailgate5.cinetic.de> <17kW2f-1gdvv6C@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:29 +0200 Message-ID: <17lA41-1kCT8zC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: LF: Argo-SpecLab Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040100040403060601040003" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.7 required=5.0tests=FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMSversion=2.31 X-Spam-Level: **** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040100040403060601040003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto, Vittorio es Wolf, would you pse enlighten me on the matter as follows: I observed that the input level to the soundcard - Soundblaster with PCI 64V - is indicated on screen by its mixer when using Argo. if SpecLab is used there is no indication - see attachment. how come that? is it intenionally done? ok, on Digimode Terminal screen there is an level indicator and I do use it if tuning the RCVer audio output level. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------040100040403060601040003 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="ARGO-S~1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ARGO-S~1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CADgALkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 15:23:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17lA4K-0000aM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:21:48 +0100 Received: from [194.25.134.81] (helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17lA4K-0000aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:21:48 +0100 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17lA4B-0001gJ-02; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:39 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.50.58]) by fwd08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17lA3z-1kCT8yC; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:27 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200208300809.g7U89uX26981@mailgate5.cinetic.de> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 17:21:27 +0200 Message-ID: <17lA3z-1kCT8yC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: Skin-effect cores, from DK 8 ND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.7 required=5.0tests=FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMSversion=2.31 X-Spam-Level: **** Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hans-Albrecht Haffa schrieb: > > Lieber Uwe, hier also meine Qellen: > > - Eine Seite aus dem Repetitorium in "Siemens Compüonents 22 ( 1984) Heft 5 > - Fritz Vilbig: Lehrbuch der Hochfrequenztechnik, Vierte Auflage, Bd. 1, > Seite 149-150, Akademische Verlagsgesellschaft, Leipzig 1944. > > Du mußt also wohl oder übel in einer wissenschaftlichen Bibliothek in den > Grundlagenwerken der Elektrotechnik und HF-Technik wühlen. > > 55, > Hans-Albrecht tks Hans-Albrecht. I`ll make someone with Siemens and with Uni Hamburg doing it. 55, Uwe From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15304 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 00:48:23 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 00:48:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 11115 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2002 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2002 00:47:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kwNO-0006Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:44:34 +0100 Received: from [216.93.66.201] (helo=mail2.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kwNN-0006EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:44:33 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d29.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.253] (may be forged)) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g7V0iR315384 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:44:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200208300809.g7U89uX26981@mailgate5.cinetic.de> X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail2.mx.voyager.net id g7V0iR315384 Subject: LF: RE: Skin-effect cores, from DK 8 ND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.9 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,MAY_BE_FORGEDversion=2.31 Sender: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Hey, not fair. I can't read German if that is what this is. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Hans-Albrecht Haffa Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:10 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Skin-effect cores, from DK 8 ND rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org schrieb am 29.08.02 22:49:59: > Hans-Albrecht Haffa schrieb: > > > > > - Look to Curves explaning the skin effect, that means that diameter or > > thickness of the copper is restricted, depending on the frequency used. > > > Hi Hans, > > where can I look up those curves ? > > regards > > Uwe/dj8wx > Göppingen, 30. 08.2002 Lieber Uwe, hier also meine Qellen: - Eine Seite aus dem Repetitorium in "Siemens Compüonents 22 ( 1984) Heft 5 - Fritz Vilbig: Lehrbuch der Hochfrequenztechnik, Vierte Auflage, Bd. 1, Seite 149-150, Akademische Verlagsgesellschaft, Leipzig 1944. Du mußt also wohl oder übel in einer wissenschaftlichen Bibliothek in den Grundlagenwerken der Elektrotechnik und HF-Technik wühlen. 55, Hans-Albrecht ____________________________________________________________________________ __ Jetzt testen fur 1 Euro! Ihr All-in-one-Paket! https://digitaledienste.web.de/Club/formular/?mc=021106 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29813 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2002 08:11:01 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Aug 2002 08:11:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9989 invoked by uid 10001); 30 Aug 2002 08:16:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2002 08:16:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kgrM-00035z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:10:28 +0100 Received: from [217.72.192.165] (helo=mailgate5.cinetic.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kgrM-00035g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:10:28 +0100 Received: from web.de (fmomail01.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.1.45]) by mailgate5.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id g7U89uX26981 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:09:56 +0200 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:09:56 +0200 Message-ID: <200208300809.g7U89uX26981@mailgate5.cinetic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: "Hans-Albrecht Haffa" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Skin-effect cores, from DK 8 ND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.4 required=5.0tests=MIME_EXCESSIVE_QPversion=2.31 X-Spam-Level: ** Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org schrieb am 29.08.02 22:49:59: > Hans-Albrecht Haffa schrieb: > > > > > - Look to Curves explaning the skin effect, that means that diameter or > > thickness of the copper is restricted, depending on the frequency used. > > > Hi Hans, > > where can I look up those curves ? > > regards > > Uwe/dj8wx > Göppingen, 30. 08.2002 Lieber Uwe, hier also meine Qellen: - Eine Seite aus dem Repetitorium in "Siemens Compüonents 22 ( 1984) Heft 5 - Fritz Vilbig: Lehrbuch der Hochfrequenztechnik, Vierte Auflage, Bd. 1, Seite 149-150, Akademische Verlagsgesellschaft, Leipzig 1944. Du mußt also wohl oder übel in einer wissenschaftlichen Bibliothek in den Grundlagenwerken der Elektrotechnik und HF-Technik wühlen. 55, Hans-Albrecht ______________________________________________________________________________ Jetzt testen fur 1 Euro! Ihr All-in-one-Paket! https://digitaledienste.web.de/Club/formular/?mc=021106 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12150 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2002 07:51:18 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 30 Aug 2002 07:51:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7292 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2002 07:51:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2002 07:51:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kgXb-0002xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:50:03 +0100 Received: from [195.170.0.5] (helo=mailsrv.otenet.gr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kgXa-0002xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:50:02 +0100 Received: from otenet.gr (myti530-a024.otenet.gr [212.205.251.152]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id g7U7nt0d011480 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:49:59 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3D6F3FC1.E27F4A53@otenet.gr> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:49:53 +0100 From: "Alex Deligiannis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: IK2DED/B Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0tests=noneversion=2.31 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

       HI,

                Ik2DED/B beacon received during late evening Q5 -audible- the CW ID and the three QRS3 transmissions of  "IK2DED/B  JN55IO "    15 DB above noise with no signal reduction between them so the -10 dB step down must be off at the moment.
Frequency 135.8074 kcs (spectrograms will be send to you Giulio later) and high noise level, during the day I receive only noise... receiver IC-R75 with 80 m vertical loop.

best 73's  Alex SV8QG KM39gc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7631 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 22:31:32 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 22:31:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 8168 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 22:31:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 22:31:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kXo2-0001gV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:30:26 +0100 Received: from [194.25.134.80] (helo=mailout01.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kXo1-0001gL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:30:25 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17kXnw-0000hr-00; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:30:20 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.51.207]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17kXng-04xym8C; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:30:04 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c1e13e$8328ddc0$4f6152d5@it> <003401c24e05$f5f3e500$ad666ec3@cestag> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:30:04 +0200 Message-ID: <17kXng-04xym8C@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: LF: R: LF beacon from North Italy. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010308050405050401030805" X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.7 required=5.0tests=FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMSversion=2.31 X-Spam-Level: **** Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010308050405050401030805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hallo to all, > > i inform all the LF comunity that is now on the air a beacon located here > in North Italy, few kilometers west of Garda Lake, at the top of a mountain, > 980 meters above sea level. > The frequency is 135.800 Hz obtained dividing a 11 Mhz xtal for 81 with an > HEF Philips divider, the power is now 40 w, to a quasi vertical wire > slooping down from the top of a tower long 60 meters. > The message is 4 times "IK2DED/B LF BEACON JN55IO" at 10 WPM, then "IK2DED > JN55IO" in qrss3 at 40 W, then in qrss3 the same message at 4 W, and then > the same message at 0.4 W. > The 3 differente power level will be implemented the next week, and the > locator on the PIC will be changed in JN55FO. > The beacon is on air in this season for check what may happen with > tunderstorm and lightning. > The next improvement will be add at the actual qrss 3, the Jason mode with > 3 different power output level, and to connect it at a standard rubidium > source. > Hope to help someone from South Europe to came here with us in LF!! > Any reports are welcome. > > 73 and see you on the band this winter season. > > IK2DED Giulio Scaroni. > > Hi Giulio, nice copy of ur beacon. see attachment. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------010308050405050401030805 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="CAPTIK~1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="CAPTIK~1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof 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v38bvu8denFSNpOms967afaF79Al4xhXNwoUqBJx84CkjBzwcUUUAR2uhaPY6dPp1npVjb2M +7zraG3RI5Nw2tuUDByAAc9RUcfhrQYdLm0uLRNNTT5n3y2i2qCJ245ZMYJ+VeSOw9KKKAI7 7wn4b1O8kvL/AMP6Vd3UmN809lHI7YAAyxGTgAD8KsXWhaPfajBqN5pVjcX0G3ybma3R5I9p 3LtYjIwSSMdDRRQAXWhaPfajBqN5pVjcX0G3ybma3R5I9p3LtYjIwSSMdDVe+8J+G9TvJLy/ 8P6Vd3UmN809lHI7YAAyxGTgAD8KKKANSeCG6t5be4ijmglQpJHIoZXUjBBB4II4xXN33gHR LmzksrKL+yLG4wL230uKK3F6gIOyVlTftxuHysvDsM80UUAal54a0HULe1t73RNNuYLRNltH Nao6wrgDCAjCjCgYHoPSrF7pOm6k8b3+n2l08aSIjTwq5VXXa4GRwGXgjuODRRQAPpOmyW9p bvp9o0Fk6PaxtCpWBkGEKDGFKjgEYx2qS1sLOx8/7HaQW/nytPN5MYTzJG+87Y6scDJPJooo Az9J8N2ekaxrGrRyTzX2rSpJcSzMOFRdsaKFAAVRkDgsc8k1Hrnhe28RXFt/aV3dy6fC6yPp gKC3ndSSpkG3e4BIO0ttJVcqe5RQBcutC0e+1GDUbzSrG4voNvk3M1ujyR7TuXaxGRgkkY6G rF1YWd95H2y0guPIlWeHzow/lyL911z0YZOCORRRQBXutC0e+1GDUbzSrG4voNvk3M1ujyR7 TuXaxGRgkkY6Gj+wtH/tj+1/7Ksf7T/5/fs6ed93b9/G77vHXpxRRQBJHpOmw6pNqkWn2iah MmyW7WFRK68cM+MkfKvBPYelXKKKACiiigD/2Q== --------------010308050405050401030805-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5032 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 22:16:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 22:16:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 14361 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Aug 2002 22:22:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 22:22:09 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kXZv-0001Zz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:15:51 +0100 Received: from [195.223.232.51] (helo=netregister.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kXZu-0001Zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:15:50 +0100 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia12.phoenix.it [213.82.97.76]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g7TMFm832484 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:15:48 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c24beb$12e090e0$4c6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020829180425.00af0690@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 05:54:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Re: LF beacon from North Italy. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0tests=DEAR_SOMEBODY,DATE_IN_PAST_96_XXversion=2.31 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, I'm sorry but i have not implemented the power attenuator to reduce the power of 10 and 20 dB beacouse the express courier have lost my components that i have ordered ten days ago at RS Components... So after many telephone calls, i hope to receive all that i need the first days of the next week. ( usually with RS i receive the components in one day ) When i install the power attenuator, i'll send a message to the reflector. This weekend we have here a local hamfest, i'll be there with a demo receiving station, all saturday with I2PHD and IK2PII, and sunday, tuned on the beacon, and sometimes to 137.700. Hope to have some interest from local ham. Thanks for beacon reports. 73 to all de Giulio IK2DED. > Dear Giulio, LF Group, > > Reasonable "M" copy of IK2DED/B here last night around 0000utc with a high > level of QRN. Have you implemented the variable power level yet? the signal > level was changing noticeably here, but not in steps of 10dB - so could > just have been QSB. Nothing was visible this morning, but still a high > level of QRN present. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22022 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 20:39:38 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 20:39:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 21685 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 20:39:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 20:39:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kW3e-0001J6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:38:26 +0100 Received: from [194.25.134.84] (helo=mailout09.sul.t-online.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kW3d-0001Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:38:25 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17kW2r-0004cW-08; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:37:37 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.50.19]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17kW2f-1gdvv6C; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:37:25 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200208242255.g7OMtcX07436@mailgate5.cinetic.de> X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:37:25 +0200 Message-ID: <17kW2f-1gdvv6C@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores, from DK 8 ND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=4.7 required=5.0tests=FROM_NAME_NO_SPACES,FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMSversion=2.31 X-Spam-Level: **** Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hans-Albrecht Haffa schrieb: > > - Look to Curves explaning the skin effect, that means that diameter or > thickness of the copper is restricted, depending on the frequency used. > Hi Hans, where can I look up those curves ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15930 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 17:16:05 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 17:16:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23214 invoked by uid 10001); 29 Aug 2002 17:20:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 17:20:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kSqv-0000wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:13:05 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.9] (helo=hestia.herts.ac.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kSqu-0000wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:13:04 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17kSqE-0001J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:12:22 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17kSqC-000420-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:12:20 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020829180425.00af0690@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:12:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" In-reply-to: <001d01c1e13e$8328ddc0$4f6152d5@it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: Re: LF beacon from North Italy. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.1 required=5.0tests=IN_REP_TO,DEAR_SOMEBODYversion=2.31 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Giulio, LF Group, Reasonable "M" copy of IK2DED/B here last night around 0000utc with a high level of QRN. Have you implemented the variable power level yet? the signal level was changing noticeably here, but not in steps of 10dB - so could just have been QSB. Nothing was visible this morning, but still a high level of QRN present. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28287 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 16:44:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 16:44:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15556 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 16:45:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 16:45:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17k7dc-0001a9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:33:56 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17k7db-0001a4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 19:33:55 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17k5t5-0006DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:41:47 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17k5t3-0007P4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:41:45 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020828173628.00ad1d18@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:41:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: New station on 136 In-reply-to: <$0GRBCAf36Z9EwAa@telemetry.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Tom, LF group, At 17:01 24/08/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Pleased to work G3XIZ, Chris in Biggleswade, this morning. An excellent >579 here in Devon, a new one for me and nice to hear some activity - 136 >has gone very quiet these days. > >73, Tom G3OLB. Talking of new stations, there is also M0FMT, Peter, who is a friend of Chris. He is located in Hitchin, a bit to the north of me, and running about 20W - so a bit more challenging! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8940 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2002 09:38:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 09:38:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 29877 invoked by uid 10001); 28 Aug 2002 09:43:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2002 09:43:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17k0vV-0000sU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:23:57 +0100 Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it ([212.216.176.224] helo=smtp4.cp.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17k0vU-0000sP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:23:56 +0100 Received: from franco66wapumd (212.171.170.96) by smtp4.cp.tin.it (6.5.019) id 3D5F670A0024234F for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:28:46 +0200 From: "Minghetti Franco" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: subsctibe list 137 khz Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:28:31 +0200 Organization: ik4plw Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Disposition-Notification-To: "Minghetti Franco" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Please send to me all bullettin on 137 khz

 

Many thank’s

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9283 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 21:27:04 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 21:27:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15990 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Aug 2002 21:31:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 21:31:03 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jpXv-0008AL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:14:51 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jpXu-0008AG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:14:50 +0100 Received: from modem-122.dorlas.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.156.250] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17jnnO-000718-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:22:42 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c24e10$b6540c80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. IK2DED Beacon Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:26:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guilio, Good copy of your beacon here tonight at 2200. strength"O" some static etc. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27137 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 20:33:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:33:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13234 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 20:34:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:34:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jokF-0007t9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:23:31 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jokE-0007t4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:23:30 +0100 Received: from [212.1.156.186] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17jmsa-0005N5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:24:01 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:31:29 +0100 Message-ID: <01C24E11.1B0AD320.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QEX Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:31:24 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That should, of course, have read every two months !!!!!!!1 -----Original Message----- From: A C Talbot [SMTP:g4jnt@thersgb.net] Sent: 2002-08-27 21:30 To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Subject: RE: LF: toroid cores An excellent technical magazine, the "Forum for Communications Experimenters", produced every six months by ARRL. See WWW.ARRL.ORG for more details. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Tom Boucher [SMTP:tom@telemetry.demon.co.uk] Sent: 2002-08-26 08:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores What's 'QEX' Andy? >Full details of this Tx will be appearing inthe November/December edition >of QEX. > >Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24410 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 20:32:42 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:32:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29280 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Aug 2002 20:37:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:37:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17joiv-0007sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:22:09 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17joiu-0007ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:22:08 +0100 Received: from [212.1.156.186] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17jmrG-0004sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:22:38 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <01C24E10.E9A2D080.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: toroid cores Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:29:54 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: An excellent technical magazine, the "Forum for Communications Experimenters", produced every six months by ARRL. See WWW.ARRL.ORG for more details. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Tom Boucher [SMTP:tom@telemetry.demon.co.uk] Sent: 2002-08-26 08:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores What's 'QEX' Andy? >Full details of this Tx will be appearing inthe November/December edition >of QEX. > >Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10035 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 20:16:55 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:16:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 15732 invoked by uid 10001); 27 Aug 2002 20:22:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:22:16 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17joTc-0007pQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:06:20 +0100 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.100.2] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17joTZ-0007pL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:06:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 4143 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 20:12:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.173) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 20:12:57 -0000 Message-ID: <003401c24e05$f5f3e500$ad666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c1e13e$8328ddc0$4f6152d5@it> Subject: LF: R: LF beacon from North Italy. Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:05:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
    Hi Giulio
        Your beacon is received here at a level of about 100 uV ( 9 + 10 dB on my Smeter), using loop antenna, very FB.  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
-----Messaggio Originale-----
Data invio: giovedì 11 aprile 2002 11.11
Oggetto: LF: LF beacon from North Italy.

Hallo to all,
 
i inform all the LF comunity that is now on the air a beacon located here in North Italy, few kilometers west of Garda Lake, at the top of a mountain, 980 meters above sea level.
The frequency is 135.800 Hz obtained dividing a 11 Mhz xtal for 81 with an HEF Philips divider, the power is now 40 w, to a quasi vertical wire slooping down from the top of a tower long 60 meters.
The message is 4 times "IK2DED/B LF BEACON JN55IO" at 10 WPM, then "IK2DED JN55IO" in qrss3 at 40 W, then in qrss3 the same message at 4 W, and then the same message at 0.4 W.
The 3 differente power level will be implemented the next week, and the locator on the PIC will be changed in JN55FO.
The beacon is on air in this season for check what may happen with tunderstorm and lightning.
The next improvement will be add at the actual qrss 3, the Jason mode with 3 different power output level, and to connect it at a standard rubidium source.
Hope to help someone from South Europe to came here with us in LF!!
Any reports are welcome.
 
73 and see you on the band this winter season.
 
IK2DED Giulio Scaroni.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3996 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 19:09:24 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 19:09:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17438 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2002 19:09:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2002 19:09:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jnL7-0007dD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:53:29 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jnL6-0007d8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 21:53:28 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17jlaa-000AJc-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:01:21 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:06:59 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores In-reply-to: <01C24BC1.50F99360.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What's 'QEX' Andy? >Full details of this Tx will be appearing inthe November/December edition >of QEX. > >Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15544 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2002 09:19:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 26 Aug 2002 09:19:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 34 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2002 09:18:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2002 09:18:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jHcK-0004NU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:01:08 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17jHcJ-0004MD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:01:07 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7Q98Tm6179168 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:08:29 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020826111120.00b0d330@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 11:12:49 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020823144259.00b2f8e0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821151626.00af6128@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <002d01c2489a$7118a840$501bebc3@BI57429bankinter> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all who responded, either via the reflector or direct. I will wait a few days to see if there is any more info and then mail a summary to the reflector. 73, Rik ON7YD At 14:49 23/08/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Hello LF group, > >I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for >136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. >I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the >application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > >many thanks in advance, > >73, Rik ON7YD > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1057 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2002 13:14:19 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 13:14:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 3391 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Aug 2002 13:19:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 13:19:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iyvM-00029z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:03:32 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iyvL-00029u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:03:31 +0100 Received: from host62-7-118-249.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.118.249] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17ixAm-0000bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:11:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c24c38$ea026420$f976073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: E-field antennas Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:18:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, as I understand it the performance of an E-field antenna is more related to its height of installation above ground that to any effect of the amplifier. As we all know an amplifier will amplify noise as well as the signal, its real purpose is to extract a signal efficiently from the very ofdd impedance of a short wire. It may well be that this type of aerial is better suited to the tight filtering necessary to keep the strong stations in mainland Europe from generating intermodulation, and will also give some advantages to those without the 'real estate' or mast height to erect wire aerials. To me this suggests that an E-field antenna at 20m height will work about as well as a 20m vertical wire......or have I missed something ?? I suppose if you house is in a clearing amongst tall trees it could have a distinct advantage over a wire. I think Derek G3GRO has done some comparative tests?. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3002 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2002 09:01:52 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 09:01:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 26606 invoked by uid 10001); 25 Aug 2002 09:07:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2002 09:07:10 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iuvW-0001UX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:47:26 +0100 Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk ([193.162.153.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iuvV-0001US-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:47:25 +0100 Received: from preinstapdq0tf (0xc3d7e203.hgnxr2.ras.tele.dk [195.215.226.3]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 47AD1263831 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:55:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003901c24c15$1dadaa60$03e2d7c3@preinstapdq0tf> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Niels_Rudberg_J=F8rgensen?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c1e13e$8413da00$4f6152d5@it> Subject: LF: Re: E-field probe antenna versus receiving loop. Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:54:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:28 AM
Subject: LF: E-field probe antenna versus receiving loop.

Has someone tried the E-field probe vertical whip with high impedance fet preamplifier, comparing it to a classic multiwire receiving loop, here in 136 Khz?
I would like to made an E-field probe for use here at home when in summer season the LF transmitting vertical in down, and i dont want to put another loop on the roof ( i have now a magloop 4 meters dia for low band, and a little one only 1 meters dia for 40 to 12 meters band hi hi).
 
Thankyou and 73 de
IK2DED Giulio Scaroni
 
 
I never used anything else!
 
My receiving antenna for LF is a 4-meter vertical whip.
 
Immediately below the whip is a box containing a bandpass filter and an antenna amplifier.
The bandpass filter is a double LC filter, slightly overcoupled, - loaded Q about  40;  coupling
is capacitive bottom coupling (which gives a better attenuation on the high flank of the
passband).
 
My amplifier is a Cascode Amplifier employing two junction fets (P8000-devices, J310s could
probably do the job). The amplifier drain current is approx. 18 mA.
 
The double bandpass filter and the high amplifier drain current make sure that I have no
problems at all with cross- or intermodulation from the large european long wave broadcast
stations!    
 
I hope this info might be of help to you.
 
= 73  de OZ8NJ  Niels+
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13694 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 23:00:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 23:00:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12198 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 23:00:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 23:00:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ilZm-00007A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 01:48:22 +0100 Received: from mailgate5.cinetic.de ([217.72.192.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ilZl-000075-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 01:48:21 +0100 Received: from web.de (fmomail01.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.1.45]) by mailgate5.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id g7OMtcX07436 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:55:43 +0200 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:55:43 +0200 Message-ID: <200208242255.g7OMtcX07436@mailgate5.cinetic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: "Hans-Albrecht Haffa" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores, from DK 8 ND Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070103050702080003030209" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070103050702080003030209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Rik, look to the attachment. 55, Hans-Albecht Hans-Albrecht Haffa DK 8 ND cba Goeppingen, August 24th Dear Lowfers, ist a really pity that today`s experienced professionals in communication techniques have no knowledge about materials, components and magnetics. The calculus of a transformer on 136 kHz is really the same as on 50 Hz. Having several years of experience in the development of switch-mode power-supplies I know that it is not possible to give a short summary, as many figures I just know by experience, not by design manuals. But I try. - You can choose every ferrite material with a relative permeability urel between 40 and 2500. If You have a material with a Permeability betwenn 3000 and 6000, reduce the magnetization. I never could measure any differences in materials like Epcos (Siemens) N27, N47, N67, N87 or Vogt FI324, FI323. Do not use Carbonyle iron powder cores neither for transformers nor for coils. - Choose a magnetization of about 100 mT = 100 Millitesla = 100e-3 Tesla and a current density of 2,5.....15 A/mm2. 15 A/mm2 for small cores, smaller than 20 mm at ist longest side, 2,5 A/mm2 for the big Toroids with 120 mm diameter. You are principally free to use more windings with a smaller core (more copper losses) or to use a larger core with more iron volume. The chosen starting value of magnetization and current density is not a secret, it is the experience You get in a long time as a professional. - Choose adequate winding copper material, either round wire, copper-stripes or HF-Litz wire. - Look to Curves explaning the skin effect, that means that diameter or thickness of the copper is restricted, depending on the frequency used. - Measure the temperature rise with a thermocouple termometer or Your wet finger at room temperature. If it feels just hot, temperature will be about 60 ø C, so from 25ø C room temperature it will be 35 Kelvin rise. A cheap add- on Thermometer for a digital multimeter You get from conrad.com in DL for about DM 50,--. If Your transformer becomes too hot, check the copper material or lower the magnetization. E.g. lowering magnetization is very effective. Check the maximum temperature of your insulation materials, (130øC, 155øC or 180ø C). Self adhesive tape from the stationary shop is not an insulation material !! - a good book for HF-transformers is: Jerry Sevick, W2FMI "Transmission Line Transformers", American Radio Relay League Inc. Newington - or also: Catalog from Amidon Associates - For Coils use gapped ferrites. Toroid Cores may be gapped with a Saw for tiles (bath-room plastering) in the DIY-market. It is no problem to cut a 10 mm gap into a Toroid with 62 mm OD. I have already built up a filter here at home (LOC: JN48UQ) in G”ppingen. If You mind, look to the home page of the following manufacturers of ferrites Kaschke DL Keramische Werke Hermsdorf/ Tridelta/ Vogt Siemens/ EPCOS Philips/ Valvo/ Ferroxcube all above in DL (Ferroxcube also USA) ISKRA in Yugoslavia Amidon USA (It is not a manufacturer, this is Fair Rite) Neosid DL and UK, UK for Power-Ferrites Stewart US Fair- Rite US A good choice may also be toroid cores of amorphous metals from VACUUMSCHMELZE in Hanau, DL or from Micrometals US, but usually they have never samples of theese wonderful metal glasses for development. So far in this night. 55, Hans-Albrecht Haffa DK 8 ND email: nospamleaveitoffbeformynameHaffaHA@t-online.de IDD: ++(0)7161 - 87 847 one side rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org schrieb am 23.08.02 16:48:31: > Hello LF group, > > I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for > 136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. > I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the > application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > > many thanks in advance, > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > ______________________________________________________________________________ paulchen.panther@online.ms - nur eine der witzigsten E-Mail-Adressen! Interesse? Klicken! http://digitaledienste.web.de/MyAdress/?mc=021110 --------------070103050702080003030209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Ferrite.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Ferrite.txt" Hans-Albrecht Haffa DK 8 ND cba G”ppingen, August 24th Dear Lowfers, ist a really pity that today`s experienced professionals in communication techniques have no knowledge about materials, components and magnetics. The calculus of a transformer on 136 kHz is really the same as on 50 Hz. Having several years of experience in the development of switch-mode power-supplies I know that it is not possible to give a short summary, as many figures I just know by experience, not by design manuals. But I try. - You can choose every ferrite material with a relative permeability urel between 40 and 2500. If You have a material with a Permeability betwenn 3000 and 6000, reduce the magnetization. I never could measure any differences in materials like Epcos (Siemens) N27, N47, N67, N87 or Vogt FI324, FI323. Do not use Carbonyle iron powder cores neither for transformers nor for coils. - Choose a magnetization of about 100 mT = 100 Millitesla = 100e-3 Tesla and a current density of 2,5.....15 A/mm2. 15 A/mm2 for small cores, smaller than 20 mm at ist longest side, 2,5 A/mm2 for the big Toroids with 120 mm diameter. You are principally free to use more windings with a smaller core (more copper losses) or to use a larger core with more iron volume. The chosen starting value of magnetization and current density is not a secret, it is the experience You get in a long time as a professional. - Choose adequate winding copper material, either round wire, copper-stripes or HF-Litz wire. - Look to Curves explaning the skin effect, that means that diameter or thickness of the copper is restricted, depending on the frequency used. - Measure the temperature rise with a thermocouple termometer or Your wet finger at room temperature. If it feels just hot, temperature will be about 60 ø C, so from 25ø C room temperature it will be 35 Kelvin rise. A cheap add- on Thermometer for a digital multimeter You get from conrad.com in DL for about DM 50,--. If Your transformer becomes too hot, check the copper material or lower the magnetization. E.g. lowering magnetization is very effective. Check the maximum temperature of your insulation materials, (130øC, 155øC or 180ø C). Self adhesive tape from the stationary shop is not an insulation material !! - a good book for HF-transformers is: Jerry Sevick, W2FMI "Transmission Line Transformers", American Radio Relay League Inc. Newington - or also: Catalog from Amidon Associates - For Coils use gapped ferrites. Toroid Cores may be gapped with a Saw for tiles (bath-room plastering) in the DIY-market. It is no problem to cut a 10 mm gap into a Toroid with 62 mm OD. I have already built up a filter here at home (LOC: JN48UQ) in G”ppingen. If You mind, look to the home page of the following manufacturers of ferrites Kaschke DL Keramische Werke Hermsdorf/ Tridelta/ Vogt Siemens/ EPCOS Philips/ Valvo/ Ferroxcube all above in DL (Ferroxcube also USA) ISKRA in Yugoslavia Amidon USA (It is not a manufacturer, this is Fair Rite) Neosid DL and UK, UK for Power-Ferrites Stewart US Fair- Rite US A good choice may also be toroid cores of amorphous metals from VACUUMSCHMELZE in Hanau, DL or from Micrometals US, but usually they have never samples of theese wonderful metal glasses for development. So far in this night. 55, Hans-Albrecht Haffa DK 8 ND email: nospamleaveitoffbeformynameHaffaHA@t-online.de IDD: ++(0)7161 - 87 847 one side --------------070103050702080003030209-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18445 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 22:45:16 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 22:45:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 19633 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 22:44:36 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 22:44:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ilLL-00004D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 01:33:27 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ilLK-000047-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 01:33:26 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.190]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020824224107.IGUY29728.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:41:07 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c24bbf$62061e00$be2565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20020823234512.21053.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: toroid cores Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:41:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050907070706090104010707" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050907070706090104010707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Michael, I didn't say it was 3F3. I am sure it was a 58mm 3C85 core. The colo(u)r may look like orange in the picture but in reality it is red (I have the xfmr in my hand right now). > I may be mistaken but I think the picture is of a very > large diameter 3E25 from the colour code like a > TL58/41/18-3E25 or TL102/66/15-3E25. 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MEQPO3wWCBqzbzrRhPWz2SLOW1l/5M2inMq363wJrv2uO9YLVxYQrVU5aYqNEoRYDop7Xgnz /IWlYXHOEXpMeOoXE5hZlkQW6w2dT5x4CQEW3AYofjWCg+XCK2UI94RvfFJVy3Gm4OsPP1QI C6Kfg478ZW6g5mxEARO9kzaa8GAFelaR8z4xuk3QEIAvYG/nqfUF1765Tf6cjfiQgqV0Wyz5 79Nf0pC6FEC8c97mhkkCTQIMCsnPy4yc2kgAEVj0MQC+6SGodlV/n8/X9+FIIp1ab0belOpc O+qrDStGlMHV++MzGKZoVbKJoQH4YHGmQByvbgvxlRLsK6+vyfKm+zxo2CfsaLyGdq4s25ld 0HdOn5MgXKjEWkfc/cvzic68Ymq4vy+cDVG4K+TsyQmtap9MWRleDUFRweRDKE2AgfziOQHB IDHS6Wrg8rkE2g2CwG+qMvL2eAkOtEX7r5w3kYOmHpys++OPntSwmnrtq5JEvJZWSTnUZpe7 hU8onfV2sevTAKlgi8NsgB45vOEKmB7upr3rzxlEPgxOggvg3tcA6vp1fzE4L0+m+SgfIlAM /D+NatWrBj7kHg4Sjg4/8BgAFsadqufjsdsbkBhqDa+5f061atWrVq1atWrVq1atWrVi5Bab h0vuH9OtWrVq1atWrVq1atWrVq1YKB8iFQX8v4Vq1ZURQeRzFbtspOwup8Gvr1q1atWrVq1a tWrVqzcgMNQbX3L+nWrVq1atWrVq1atWrVq1asxb8uKZpXrPyf8A1v8A/9k= --------------050907070706090104010707-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29523 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 21:58:49 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 21:58:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22861 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Aug 2002 22:03:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 22:03:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ikcs-0008T0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:47:30 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ikcr-0008Sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:47:29 +0100 Received: from [212.1.153.91] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17iilS-00058n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:48:15 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:55:17 +0100 Message-ID: <01C24BC1.50F99360.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: toroid cores Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:55:06 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For my 700 Watt transmitter I use an ETD49 core (approx 200mm^2 core area) of 3C85 material as the output transformer. This matches the 28 ohms output impedance from 12 turns on the primary, to a range of impedances via a tapped secondary. Primary uses 2.5mm diameter Litz wire (ex Decca Tx) and the secondary is wound with plain 1mm enammelled. The transformer runs around 30 degrees above ambient after the Tx has been operating for about half an hour with 100% duty cycle. Full details of this Tx will be appearing inthe November/December edition of QEX. Andy G4JNT > Hello LF group, > > I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for > 136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. > I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the > application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > > many thanks in advance, > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > Hi Rik, From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14117 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 21:12:36 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 21:12:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22882 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 21:12:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 21:12:58 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iju8-0008LJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:01:16 +0100 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iju6-0008LE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 00:01:15 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.28.2ba87525 (30950) for ; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <28.2ba87525.2a994fee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:09:02 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Active antenna for LF reception. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Giulio,


Here a translation of the text below DF8ZR's diagram:

>>>
The Circuit

The picture shows the classic design of the three stage amplifier. Only commonly available parts were used. Only the coils for the tank circuit are the usual inductor coil kits by Conrad (YHF: a german mail order company). The ferrite slugs are rated to 100kHz, so Q factors above 200 could not be realized. Pot cores with HF "Litz" wire and matched(?) ferrite can give higher Q, so the bandwidth could be reduced to a few Hz. The amplifier is tuned for maximum gain around 137 kHz. Then the DCF39 carrier at 138.3 kHz is rejected enough to watch the  QRSS transmissions at 137.7kHz. Audible CW at the lower band edge can be copied also.

Note: The circuit has been developed for the "VSCW2". If another receiver is connected, the output signal must be reduced because high(?) levels are produced.


Final comment (by DF8ZR)
Used with the VCSCW2 or VSCW1 this combination reaches a similar SENSITIVITY like commercial receivers. With both modules listening to amateur radio signals on longwave is possible with minimum effort. [ .. ]

<<< (end of translation)


IMHO, the small coils are ok for a small antenna as mentioned in the article, but I would not connect this high-gain amplifier to a large antenna. The gate-protection diodes at the input will produce terrible intermodulation (there is no selective measure at the gate of the 1st FET !). Use AT LEAST ONE tank circuit before the FET and the limiting diodes, or you hear an ugly mix of DCF, DLF and your "local" LF broadcaster. Reducing the bandwith (and the amplitude of the "sum signal" after the 1st amplifier is too late, at least in this part of DL.

Regards,
 Wolf  
  DL4YHF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1724 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 20:48:46 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 20:48:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 26679 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Aug 2002 20:54:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 20:54:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ijXr-0008CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:38:15 +0100 Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ijXq-0008C9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 23:38:14 +0100 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17ihnD-0002TA-03; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:45:59 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.49.183]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17ihoa-0XuVweC; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:47:24 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002d01c2489a$7118a840$501bebc3@BI57429bankinter> <5.1.0.14.0.20020823144259.00b2f8e0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:47:24 +0200 Message-ID: <17ihoa-0XuVweC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe schrieb: > Hello LF group, > > I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for > 136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. > I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the > application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > > many thanks in advance, > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > Hi Rik, matching the 136kHz PA output from 3,5 Ohm to coax cable 50 Ohm I use a pack of four Philips RCC36,6/15.6 - 4C 65 (22mm/36mm). the pack is cooled by a separate fan whenever the PA is switched to >400W output. wire: prim 2mm, sec 1,5mm. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25858 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 19:56:13 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 19:56:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 4879 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Aug 2002 20:00:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 20:00:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iigr-00083I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:43:29 +0100 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iigq-00083D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 22:43:29 +0100 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia05.phoenix.it [213.82.97.69]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g7OJpJo18441 for ; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:51:19 +0200 Message-ID: <001d01c1e15f$3d68b6e0$456152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Active antenna for LF reception. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:46:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
May some DL  friends explain me in few word the article made by DF8ZR "Aktive antenne fur Langwelle", pubblished on the web site of ON7YD??
Is that an E field antenna with a narrow bandwidht for 136?
I am sorry but dont know a word of German language.
Thanks so much.
Giulio IK2DED.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20805 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 16:10:33 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 16:10:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4403 invoked by uid 10001); 24 Aug 2002 16:15:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 16:15:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17if7T-0007dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:54:43 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.85]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17if7S-0007dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 18:54:42 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17idMt-0002So-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:02:32 +0100 Message-ID: <$0GRBCAf36Z9EwAa@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 17:01:35 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: New station on 136 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Pleased to work G3XIZ, Chris in Biggleswade, this morning. An excellent 579 here in Devon, a new one for me and nice to hear some activity - 136 has gone very quiet these days. 73, Tom G3OLB. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29748 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 06:50:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 06:50:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6156 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2002 06:50:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2002 06:50:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iWQb-0006jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:37:53 +0100 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iWQZ-0006jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:37:52 +0100 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu04.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.116]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA3d672af3733f for ; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:42:59 +0700 (OSS) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:23:38 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: E-field probe antenna versus receiving loop. In-reply-to: <001e01c1e13e$8413da00$4f6152d5@it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Giulio. On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Giulio Scaroni wrote: > Has someone tried the E-field probe vertical whip with high impedance fet preamplifier, comparing it to a classic multiwire receiving loop, here in 136 Khz? > I would like to made an E-field probe for use here at home when in summer season the LF transmitting vertical in down, and i dont want to put another loop on the roof ( i have now a magloop 4 meters dia for low band, and a little one only 1 meters dia for 40 to 12 meters band hi hi). > > Thankyou and 73 de > IK2DED Giulio Scaroni > I have not do experiment with fet preamp. but I did some experiment with GP for 14 Mhz. It work quiet good but only (!!!) if I use a ferrite transformer to avoid noise transfer from grounded RX case to RX input. When I used RX powered from galvanic elements transformer is not need. But if there is no transformer when ground is connected to RX case noise is dramaticaly increased and all the signals are disapear. It seems because bad grounding coupled with power lines which carry lot of noise. My GP is on the roof of 5 flore building. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17435 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 23:47:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 23:47:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1051 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 23:48:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 23:48:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iPre-00063J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:37:22 +0100 Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.175.44]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iPrd-00063E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:37:21 +0100 Message-ID: <20020823234512.21053.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.125.44.226] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:45:12 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:45:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael Silvers" Subject: Re: LF: Re: toroid cores To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-reply-to: <010701c24ae4$82c76620$862965d5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Johan & All, I may be mistaken but I think the picture is of a very large diameter 3E25 from the colour code like a TL58/41/18-3E25 or TL102/66/15-3E25. A 3F3 should be blue according to my datasheets; check the web. The 5i (published initial permeabilty) for 3F3, 3C85, 3E25 are approx 1800, 2000, 5500, respectively. Regardless, still TU for the data point anyways. 73 de Mike KB6WFC k .. --- Johan Bodin wrote: > Hello Rik > > Ferrite (as opposed to iron powder) is best for > power transformation on LF > because of its high permeability, fewer turns = less > copper loss. Iron powder > is better for resonant circuits and filters because > of higher flux saturation point > and it has better inductance stability and low loss > / high Q. > > The best material for 136 kHz transformers, as far > as I know, is Philips 3F3 > which has approximately half the core loss compared > to 3C85, and 3C85 is > good! SM6PXJ and I used a 58mm 3C85 toroid as auto > transformer for > antenna matching on our 7S6SAJ expedition. The > antenna resistance was > 7..8 ohms (most of this was radiation resistance! > :o) and the transformer was > only slightly warm to the touch after running QRSS > with about 1 kW output > from Christers TX. Just a couple of watts lost, I > would guess. The winding was > made with 2.5 sq.mm flat wire (not Litz). > > I have Philips ferrite data sheets in pdf format > that I can send if you are > interested. > > Attached picture shows the transformer in action at > 7S6SAJ. Note the full scale > deflection on the 10A thermocouple "ammeter" in the > icecream container. > Christer checked the meter later and found that 10A > indicated was actually > 12A RF... (photo by SM6PXJ) > > 73 de Johan SM6LKM > > > > I am trying to make a list of toroid core material > that is suitable for > > 136kHz power applications, for impedance > transformers and low-pass filters. > > I would appreciate any information about the > material (brand-type), the > > application (transformer or filter) and the power > level it was used/tested. > > > > many thanks in advance, > > > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/tiff name=trafo.jpg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8483 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 23:22:10 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 23:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 21845 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 23:21:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 23:21:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iPOd-0005zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:07:23 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iPOc-0005zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 02:07:23 +0100 Received: from host62-7-30-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.30.110] helo=main) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17iNe6-0002Eb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 00:15:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c24afa$ec387e80$6e1e073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: IK2DED QRSS3 Beacon Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 00:11:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Giulio, good copy of your beacon despite the noisy crashes, a good "O" here. I will send a picture directly to to you. The solid line is my 'calibration source ' approximately 1Hz low but not checked against the standard. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28431 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 20:49:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:49:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 19767 invoked by uid 10001); 23 Aug 2002 20:54:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:54:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iN5G-0005eS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:39:14 +0100 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iN5E-0005eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:39:12 +0100 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia15.phoenix.it [213.82.97.79]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g7NKl2l31302 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:47:02 +0200 Message-ID: <001e01c1e13e$8413da00$4f6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: E-field probe antenna versus receiving loop. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:28:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Has someone tried the E-field probe vertical whip with high impedance fet preamplifier, comparing it to a classic multiwire receiving loop, here in 136 Khz?
I would like to made an E-field probe for use here at home when in summer season the LF transmitting vertical in down, and i dont want to put another loop on the roof ( i have now a magloop 4 meters dia for low band, and a little one only 1 meters dia for 40 to 12 meters band hi hi).
 
Thankyou and 73 de
IK2DED Giulio Scaroni
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21904 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 20:49:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:49:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19822 invoked by uid 10001); 23 Aug 2002 20:54:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:54:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iN5G-0005eQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:39:14 +0100 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iN5E-0005eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:39:12 +0100 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia15.phoenix.it [213.82.97.79]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g7NKl1l31299 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:47:01 +0200 Message-ID: <001d01c1e13e$8328ddc0$4f6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF beacon from North Italy. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:11:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hallo to all,
 
i inform all the LF comunity that is now on the air a beacon located here in North Italy, few kilometers west of Garda Lake, at the top of a mountain, 980 meters above sea level.
The frequency is 135.800 Hz obtained dividing a 11 Mhz xtal for 81 with an HEF Philips divider, the power is now 40 w, to a quasi vertical wire slooping down from the top of a tower long 60 meters.
The message is 4 times "IK2DED/B LF BEACON JN55IO" at 10 WPM, then "IK2DED JN55IO" in qrss3 at 40 W, then in qrss3 the same message at 4 W, and then the same message at 0.4 W.
The 3 differente power level will be implemented the next week, and the locator on the PIC will be changed in JN55FO.
The beacon is on air in this season for check what may happen with tunderstorm and lightning.
The next improvement will be add at the actual qrss 3, the Jason mode with 3 different power output level, and to connect it at a standard rubidium source.
Hope to help someone from South Europe to came here with us in LF!!
Any reports are welcome.
 
73 and see you on the band this winter season.
 
IK2DED Giulio Scaroni.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9359 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 20:39:06 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:39:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 19474 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 20:38:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 20:38:28 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iMt9-0005cW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:26:43 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iMt8-0005cR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 23:26:42 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.41.134]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020823203421.FXTH16267.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:34:21 +0200 Message-ID: <010701c24ae4$82c76620$862965d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: toroid cores Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:34:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050703050305000702070409" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050703050305000702070409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Rik Ferrite (as opposed to iron powder) is best for power transformation on LF because of its high permeability, fewer turns = less copper loss. Iron powder is better for resonant circuits and filters because of higher flux saturation point and it has better inductance stability and low loss / high Q. The best material for 136 kHz transformers, as far as I know, is Philips 3F3 which has approximately half the core loss compared to 3C85, and 3C85 is good! SM6PXJ and I used a 58mm 3C85 toroid as auto transformer for antenna matching on our 7S6SAJ expedition. The antenna resistance was 7..8 ohms (most of this was radiation resistance! :o) and the transformer was only slightly warm to the touch after running QRSS with about 1 kW output from Christers TX. Just a couple of watts lost, I would guess. The winding was made with 2.5 sq.mm flat wire (not Litz). I have Philips ferrite data sheets in pdf format that I can send if you are interested. Attached picture shows the transformer in action at 7S6SAJ. Note the full scale deflection on the 10A thermocouple "ammeter" in the icecream container. Christer checked the meter later and found that 10A indicated was actually 12A RF... (photo by SM6PXJ) 73 de Johan SM6LKM > I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for > 136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. > I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the > application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > > many thanks in advance, > > 73, Rik ON7YD --------------050703050305000702070409 Content-Type: image/tiff; name="trafo.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="trafo.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD/2wBDABALDA4MChAODQ4SERATGCgaGBYWGDEjJR0oOjM9 PDkzODdASFxOQERXRTc4UG1RV19iZ2hnPk1xeXBkeFxlZ2P/2wBDARESEhgVGC8aGi9jQjhC Y2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2NjY2P/wgAR CALYAwoDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAGgABAQADAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv/EABcBAQEBAQAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgP/2gAMAwEAAhADEAAAAfKYXNsuUuu51NbZiYWysrNUb2iHTjhibGqn XnydWd5Y5TNwZZS65mMLnkam7KzndNObh9jl6Y4b2TWdU3dEunl7ebNnZw7d5zvJDs3+Ztj0 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tz/jqVEGw3jgVoiX7j8oXy10Tm88jzbT76b8V6G0epWOpl7161CqWRpUvl1p0dubXl26N8Lg zb/LnQMNx4itvgtJtyXz1wqavns3m3UOmdFC19kdtyjm25O/Hxw2m3PvNuq/GP8AAZ+yaz3R X4Spvw26O/yd/ibcv38e+ltNQeYKbusWDsvhkJt/ge/wN+G3xwFxgpvAY1GYewFsgmj0TXq7 dD1NvjbfPvhfOtFzGCoL+0ou95VVMtwcNsHwd4cdugfGPh7dDePHaffRQSpjwVw7zTmXlRLY s2hvMA9yuG3+QeL03ovM85zLKoQtXEoHxAXUoA3Fa1AbkCHLvyXx2m3Nt09uG/wt+vv8LHSY CytHSCrOd5jqDFLvADThqwslaRCMAVPaXxvr7cDhv0Tqb8r1to/K34PABaqyPmEjYIu51b7Z bL4b8Do7chDm36m3Vejt8DebdffkOXuVMbin4I+NDp7cO825jo10tvmb8d+fboX0x9qpcRgV zNuTbp7cPEeXfq7cxp0tutt0r5f/2Q== --------------050703050305000702070409-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22730 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 18:19:41 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 18:19:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22121 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 18:19:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 18:19:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iKjM-0005NU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:08:28 +0100 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iKjL-0005NP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 21:08:27 +0100 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17iIyj-0006jH-02; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:16:13 +0200 Received: from 217.2.69.132 (087321565-0001@[217.2.69.132]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17iJ02-0SkR16C; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 20:17:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: toroid cores From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 23 Aug 2002 18:08 GMT Message-ID: <17iJ02-0SkR16C@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Rik, as my intention had been to design a transformerless PA, I have just two coils in the "peaked low-pass filter" (one coil with two T200-2 stacked because of higher reactive power in this part of the filter, the other coil with a single T200-2) and a transformer from the 50 ohms cable to the antenna feed impedance of about 70 Ohms This core is a FT140-43, for a transmitter output of 100 watts. Concerning the antenna transformer, I have never had the opportunity to check the temperature of the core, because it is located outside in a "dustbin" in the garden, close to the variometer. I just know that the first coil with the two stacked toroids in the low-pass filter needs additional air cooling in key down conditions for three hours (when our administration had measured the fieldstrength around my antenna in a campaign to test whether we Germans could also get permission for 1 watt erp). Thank You in advance for your coordination work. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB "Rik Strobbe" schrieb: >Hello LF group, > >I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for >136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. >I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the >application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. > >many thanks in advance, > >73, Rik ON7YD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27238 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 14:28:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 14:28:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 19197 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2002 14:27:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 14:27:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iH28-0004t2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:11:36 +0100 Received: from public.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.10] helo=public1.thorcom.com ident=[nuzPcewGgHJLlNKFvWBk0XWz6l1CpgPe]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17iGmn-0004pG-03 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:55:45 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17iDp6-0001MQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:45:56 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7NCis9G087714 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:44:54 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020823144259.00b2f8e0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:49:10 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: toroid cores In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821151626.00af6128@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <002d01c2489a$7118a840$501bebc3@BI57429bankinter> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, I am trying to make a list of toroid core material that is suitable for 136kHz power applications, for impedance transformers and low-pass filters. I would appreciate any information about the material (brand-type), the application (transformer or filter) and the power level it was used/tested. many thanks in advance, 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29712 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 19:59:47 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 19:59:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7395 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 19:59:12 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hdF6-0000Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:42:20 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hdF2-0000AK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:42:16 +0100 Received: from host213-122-207-13.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.207.13] helo=main) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17hbUV-0002QZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:50:07 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c2494b$ef012640$0dcf7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: G<> EA path Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:10:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, and all, there could be a problem with starting too early in the morning on a predominantly North South path. If you look at the CT<>DCF39 plots, you will see that just after dawn there is indeed a quiet spot, but it is quiet because the propagation is destroyed by early absorption. Brian and Mike G3XDV found this during the tests last year, and finally made the contact in the late morning. It is difficult to judge, but I would suggest that the late morning is probably best over-all choice for the daytime path, otherwise about an hour after darkness in Spain. The problem with the darkness path is that there is still a lot of 'static' crashes around. I was looking at a CCIR plot of lightning frequency and there is little difference between Spain, Maritime France and southern England in their plots. The best daytime strength will be at noon on the path centre, disregarding any flare effects. There has been quite a lot of geomagnetic activity recently. This would normally lead to enhanced daytime conditions, but during enhanced x-ray activity ( we had an X1.0 this morning, and background levels are well above C1.0 ) the balance seems to depress signal levels below the average, due to increased absorption. Whatever you try, good luck, and I will be listening too. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15221 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 14:35:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 14:35:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1375 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 14:35:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 14:35:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hYFQ-0006uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:22:20 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hYFP-0006uX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:22:19 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17hWUt-0005vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:30:11 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17hWUr-00018H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:30:09 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020821151626.00af6128@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:26:55 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: EA1PX QRV this weekend In-reply-to: <002d01c2489a$7118a840$501bebc3@BI57429bankinter> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jose, Brian, LF Group, Glad to hear you are now transmitting on 136k as well as receiving. I would certainly like to try an EA-G QRSS QSO this weekend, please let us know what time you can be QRV on the band - I would suggest in the morning around 0700 - 0900 when the QRN is low. Come to think of it, CT - G would be nice too - how about it Brian? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24208 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 08:27:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 08:27:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 6880 invoked by uid 10001); 21 Aug 2002 08:31:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 08:31:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hSWL-0006AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:15:25 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hSWJ-0006AL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:15:24 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7L8NEP28222 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:23:14 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave-6 (por220.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.220]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7L8NEr08851 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:23:14 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020821082652.00a75c30@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:26:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: First QSO on 136KHz with Spain In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20020821070339.00a898c0@pop3.esoterica.pt> References: <117.15fc9ad1.2a92b19a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry, the last transmission was intended as a private mail, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22675 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 07:10:19 -0000 Received: from mx.last.plus.net (212.159.3.230) by mailstore with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 07:10:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 12612 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2002 06:57:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2002 06:57:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hRDr-0005xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:52:15 +0100 Received: from jubilee.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.29]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hRDp-0005xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:52:14 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by jubilee.esoterica.pt (8.12.3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7L5sZYc020617 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:54:36 +0100 Received: from slave-6 (por208.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.208]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7L701m29611 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:00:02 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020821070339.00a898c0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:03:39 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: First QSO on 136KHz with Spain In-reply-to: <117.15fc9ad1.2a92b19a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Wolf, Thanks, but José did all the hard work! Am still struggling to finish building the DDS. Have had it working but it lacked the precision timing so am rebuilding the dividers and providing a comparator this time to pick off a utc second with uS resolution. José phoned yesterday and is coming to Portugal tomorrow and hopes to visit me tomorrow afternoon. Hope you have a good "bad" reunion with heads down (does this mean good beer or good food?). You put the native English speakers (me!) to shame with your idiomatic grasp of the language. I speak a fair idiomatic Portuguese but I cannot write it! 73, Brian At 16:39 19/08/2002 EDT, you wrote: >Hello Brian and Jose, > >Congrats for another crosspoint in "The LF Matrix" ! A tough job 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7238 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2002 17:49:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 17:49:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2664 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2002 17:49:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 17:49:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hEhi-0004GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:30:14 +0100 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17hEhg-0004Fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:30:13 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.21.22a548b3 (4230) for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <21.22a548b3.2a93d85b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:37:31 EDT Subject: LF: Re: DNAT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Geri, Wil, Fabian and others visitors of the German-Netherland's amateur meeting in Bentheim,

I received some mails directly addressed to me, and as some of you don't use such evil Unuseful High Frequencies here a suggestion:

I will be at the beer&bratwurst(?!)-stand outside the sports hall at 10:00 local. If you hear a "CQ LF" whistle at 10:00 local, it may be one of us checking the resonance frequency of an acoustic cavity.

I will also look for Fabian (DJ1YFK) who wears a shirt with his callsign. If its not too hot, I wear a blue cap with my callsign on it - but it won't help much in the "head-held-down" area ;-) .


Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7516 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2002 07:21:11 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 07:21:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18623 invoked by uid 10001); 20 Aug 2002 07:26:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 07:26:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17h4p4-00034I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:57:10 +0100 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17h4p2-00034D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:57:09 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.14) id DAA28121 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 03:00:28 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: DNAT (German-Netherland's amateur meeting) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200208200300_MC3-1-C0D-441@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Wolf (and others who plan to go to Bentheim), I will be there on Staturday, probably wearing my famous "LF-Enthusiasts do it extremely slow" T-Shirt (if it still fits ...), so watch out for me, and I will als be QRV on 439.475 MHz as suggested by Wolf (what a high frequency that is, isn't it ?!). See you in Bad Bantheim (and for you English speaking people: yes, its called "Bad" Bentheim, but it isn't *that* bad after all). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6562 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:57:05 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:57:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 3811 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 21:02:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 21:02:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gvB2-0001rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:39:12 +0100 Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.146]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gvB0-0001rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:39:11 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020819204629.ESVX9079.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:46:29 +1200 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.225.180]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020819204628.YSGS1229.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:46:28 +1200 Message-ID: <002101c247c2$47d58bc0$b4e136d2@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020819134300.00a87a00@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: ZL6QH information Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:50:43 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks to all who had a listen out for ZL6QH signals. Best DX from the 17 August test was by Steve VE7SL. This is the first time that Steve has had confirmed reception on 137 kHz, but he managed to receive earlier 184 kHz beacon signals from ZL6QH. The next beacon test from ZL6QH is planned for 21 September. There is interest from Australia to carry out daytime propagation tests, so we are considering starting earlier in our day and with a schedule for QSY between 137, 165 and 184 kHz, with short dot format, but before our dusk to then settle in to long dot format on 137 kHz for long haul propagation testing purposes. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17774 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:56:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:56:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5779 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:56:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:56:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gvBR-0001rr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:39:37 +0100 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gvBQ-0001rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:39:36 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.122.15b9cc87 (30950) for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <122.15b9cc87.2a92b33b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:46:51 EDT Subject: LF: DNAT (German-Netherland's amateur meeting) - sri To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sorry,
apologies for the "KEYER628" attachment in my last message to the reflector. It should go to someone else. Mea culpa.

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4359 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:56:06 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:56:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5407 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:56:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:56:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv6U-0001rD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:34:30 +0100 Received: from mail-8.tiscali.it ([195.130.225.154] helo=mail.tiscali.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv6R-0001qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:34:27 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (62.10.65.235) by mail.tiscali.it (6.5.026) id 3D521521002EA1E1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:41:34 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7HLJsC01083 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:19:55 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed From: "Claudio" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: TECH: modem transformers works well on LF Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:19:54 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <200208172319.54170.clapo@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by localhost.localdomain id g7HLJsC01083 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have tested some 600 ohm modem transformers, they works well also for LF. The insertion loss at 300 kHz is between 1 and 3 dB. Inside PCMCIA cards modem for lap top you can find very small transformers. They should be sure up to few hundreds volts between primary and secondary. 73 de Claudio, ik2pii -- ====================================================== Claudio Pozzi - Happy Linux user - http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii ====================================================== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10262 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:53:34 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:53:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28920 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 20:57:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:57:55 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv4F-0001qo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:32:11 +0100 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv4E-0001qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:32:10 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.3d.22df43d0 (3988) for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <3d.22df43d0.2a92b19d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:39:57 EDT Subject: LF: DNAT (German-Netherland's amateur meeting) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040903080703010600050703" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040903080703010600050703 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everyone,

Just a quick reminder that coming Saturday (Aug 24) there will be a hamfest in Bad Bentheim, close to the PA/DL border, near Enschede. It would be nice to meet some friends of LF there.

If you are planning to go there: I will be QRV on 439.475 MHz (FM simplex) between 9:00 and 12:00 (local). Or any other meeting frequency... suggestions or locations to meet please.

If you see a dealer selling small metal boxes (5 cm * 5 cm * 1.5 cm) labelled
    "Quosz. 770810 - 10M"  -   "10MHz 12V= +- 10%" ...
BUY THEM ! The guy selling these units doesn't know exactly what they are (cost 10 Euros in Friedrichshafen), in fact they are nice OCXO's, heating up in 10...15 minutes, and rock-solid in frequency.  Pinout: 1 = 10 MHz output, 2 = ground for heater+XO, 3= 12 Volts/250 mA, 4=unknown (maybe it was a tuning voltage but no effect here). Compared to TV-sync 15.625 kHz * 640, my unit is about 0.2 Hz off, without any calibration.


Hope to CU in Bad Bentheim,
 kind regards,

Wolf DL4YHF. --------------040903080703010600050703 Content-Type: application/zip; name="KEYER628.ZIP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="KEYER628.ZIP" UEsDBBQAAgAIABqeEy3sGTT7XQkAACoZAAAMAAAAS0VZRVI2MjguSEVYhVhbsuwoDvzviN4L iHf/gW32v6TJFFKVp+ZO9InwoYwTIYlEEvwTJPAv89+ef//1Twznb2YZYafRJbS0UxY+DU/C E1NuxcB8JKSc+HQ8F54n5VBSjniPE7+bgXU2AILgAx6fIaQzIIyURzVwovR4pvudIdSUM9q7 G5gWsOP3WS0sWdIrhndXo+DBh5CbyNx4qXFfRUZHK5fMXmKU28CVej+hU898SS8d0qb0hrav 82T3BoQGdowmfQbpCw8k9wsDri39vvEtGbjjefBxA5SnjFK+T414moycDTwoHR18usgYAISY woKbVg8Ruj/NV3BSOiTDsKcKWgDnQ8tjLFuS4FuKBl5cFAAo4T2IAyB5EVzEwBe9sbB08ASk FdmwlwLkzADX5e0630YmLgClL4kZgEIQBq0KFz7uukd1xq90JLlkGHivFFNKMTxu4DawS6U0 NUpiSCNiCSIofMBKaXR0GudGzh/93cCo6Pw1ht5IpjdnGRk6DwOTzwBOl0JDw9toqLjNwEg+ h/5/jcvU3/kcs3vDpncDlxlIQ4sRKZLP6Oi61LZ6n4UZZ8a8DUw+/y61Syc/wsRGczXaMfCj L9amr6zuXG3LwqwjuTfU9CKJDHNqqlT+cFItAw+XTMD1Zd+nD2pMX5RpYNezy5GO6W8ykeol 40ZcxmnECVCMNLTVxAzPdYyeFmQi+cxOl6yrWV7uw2BnXbxdDQiE5OOycKTTMxc28vTlJp83 dqpu0BSxyWXYUu8NbqBNl1NU+QzAx3pGoLfPYUc112kQBQvCHofDmKGHFEdcmAHckFuG727R eLcTpYiD6vy+S0U8CQam6PL+iCyg0gTB5Un09wzmOiGfkRbCikdnTH0jfg7GDGws8AL+dp3J Z4GB/ADyRK4aNE00GgNrmqFvi8+ifIY0bjC0IybR5UbUD6vQI3EtV6PqflXfTiSVgY8zbX0f 6dZ3qGRg8jnRTQUN994fWs+DupXfH31BsIZc0YnkFPZj4DefyTQaG6x1cm3LKTLDKwRU5zQW oujG584vzV1nfF7lUX78MdgE1/l6RZ6PviV9VWPQdPBtoeCta7DZKASGr217UMjnhtX7SK2H gfSM+p/Ocp3J53b/6PvjmWJxQ+MiO41ED1xBTgiWvqWFfYH3aH5O8XBj91sZltJ1ACDVTW6j pAjjMjD57LuEU8/j4xLsNxO/VzKJeigAnQbUsDuM0/RIsZ2SPD6Tx5ga9MWAFdPY2JoNKtAD 5rpEPkNzFC+IvkVziaZi1hlQAZE8SjU+J43PpFaNtZ+n4XfDYPGB2XZKakeNCD/DeI19YBCW e2uFgyCNOOreUD6jaFgTz8JzYYMZJ1hCMJgPX5Sh1ZdMdEpqQnXW/RzvYA0nPTJdMvmMEmc8 iBFZDDy+YFYMzSUvjaqoZJ4TOzBDYUiIVeanz8HX2YNMOIXRlFHpYa208Ym/odJnue+T6Aco NjRqxjMwoKbz9+aL8hxwUcuPgRvrrjqzpYHVl5uruUkYSHI1wNnpavB3tUXJVm8Mk6LSKQ1z z3sd1l3G56z1RkLNiU62Ox4Oa54x9YpxI4vGDRQgsHD242u6jf6lVETXmRyczu7WTs9SlEYB tr3SbSVEzmdbJSZ27MSJtj3rzDDDaS9zXS66/RWUHqQLaVozf0hE3hQLubme4qTSC1BnZarz IhFoPb04yeSzk0jB4QumkWnKvBzcXwnoTSL23fvsx2AhN2tgY/A7e/BETe5FzI+W9QYwBp7n I7XL2l4/7f09euTl4Od8jOGnxfllGZ/zZWB2ais/LU5C09W4HZzsY/5pcWTqrsbj4GofvW3W 4uhU3Rvbwd0+DmuntTDcS+ISHGzWx9va59smB0cH7/NRwk8Lw6PtlCIGFrNezFDJ39bTcUkO LvbRDBQzECVVvs3Akh1shokZJmaDwIZl2aoUB5vOyXRNphZqtuyntlINnEyNZNMncyVKhVxt UUpzsLkqm+RskjNs8FKtdANn82+xGaoNqg/PswY2PvduH4cZiHCUN+wg+Zd7Q8+DID6TNAmP SNn1fbIERm4E2HN30eMQvD1AvzlPOy7kQhT1aC/GHj9pFovPTA0TkqJmqYWM1XkQPinP40Yh n6kCgBmFZH+DWSIjwiI1Gfix0pcnCi0S0GKXRz9ZcJA4eGuCPWXwvhFYEIz2oxGKEel5mFts UXQBMTX8lZ6uRMHAfk4TqsrNcsfA8YQvFHuo5DEDTvFC6TYA0TJWr2SqHFmBKRhg5uzEGdTf /HahmrOav9IGpOCpB65LC+4z/aXpWfuH66zxeb1AS/P4GTxPv1hgrMXUYKLXhWDcK1pnnHqD DHew1hvL9Dm/4+dixArMbRGptvDvf86N+qlOj6vSWbVTwks/h7PqagwlEgqYygMNciH05DvL NWSlpHcylugr+cxLJC0jUZh1a1lLoyJbrEmj8blq/YxKNlc9rzb1wItEi/ywnVLJ59pkTU9C lvswcAEoyjrbg1Xj87SjKFyq55V8jk7tqLGiG0g+VySx9wAebN4DxHJ33batWoJxiYcCxAme y1n/UmcUxGIG6pqgZuZ1CgH9oSesfgYFwvtioXn9jO//NUCTPwdo8W9grTdOVb7H+J8ZEqiK zWzgpLkbBpbkRt1jq+TMfsbVYX5uymcDzaIgHRznd3C33d3I53kpqGLaqLNcX+DClvRQ0Mhn LUwIkhfoUZ1vLONqtrsbfUeJkCzPART/HfMZPGwFm/IZkq6sQDWKZvsMqIA/x6U2juTjkfoF 3aKD6wNv+L1oUz6DZTrt/QJ3Nbqoaq7zOvHrC3oUdLySTv9tRGqX6fyA05mk77x7OcUgB5Dn j+3udrsaWIQHK/dYicnBa1oxSAMxcXuMG9fUjqw3eMiUO1FRXiCfSHu2K49ineuIPruHzXo3 wQ7STD/ajuT9pb7Pz71V1rsJ3oIy1rOg5eUbBfDMI3ZlZifbrHcTvKvUqCv2+z2DsMozsKaA ZFnkphQb1M91GQfewcBa+/5h6s8MwuRs4GpqUDKTsGayft7pFapnJUvWuwnv1Bvc+vWCG24X zVlP/uJuugy07apMznvKBh7u330M5e/4MpLvH53tbuIr2UDuNpXs3jgXAd+l9Rn0GedOUHy5 r/CVqi7bx43s07iG9vHlvv/Fz+y7XA1yMfaXu8TuAcVWtDAwGJgqxpNBPrrrreg8V3zMtZWu s+yFuuTvv/4DUEsBAhQAFAACAAgAGp4TLewZNPtdCQAAKhkAAAwAAAAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAA AEtFWUVSNjI4LkhFWFBLBQYAAAAAAQABADoAAACHCQAAAAA= --------------040903080703010600050703-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3235 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:49:47 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:49:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5062 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 20:50:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 20:50:04 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv4e-0001qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:32:36 +0100 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gv4d-0001qh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:32:35 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.117.15fc9ad1 (3988) for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:39:54 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <117.15fc9ad1.2a92b19a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:39:54 EDT Subject: Re: LF: First QSO on 136KHz with Spain To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Brian and Jose,

Congrats for another crosspoint in "The LF Matrix" ! A tough job transmitting slow CW by hand - I also tried that once, having no connection cable between LF rig and the notebook, so using the microphone for the waterfall display (after telling the fellows to be quiet) and a straight key for transmitting...

If you like, I can implement a slow-CW-transmit mode in my QRP-Keyer (which draws a few microamps from a 2.4 V supply). The firmware has just been modified to run on a PIC16F628 so enough program memory left for new functions. More info on my website at www.qsl.net/dl4yhf . A "QRSS replay mode" for the message memories can easily be implemented so you don't need the PC for TX.


Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 328 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 15:40:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 15:40:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 5669 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 15:45:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 15:45:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gqC8-0001Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:20:00 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay04.mx.net ([165.212.11.1] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gqC7-0001He-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:19:59 +0100 Received: from cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.136) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 15:27:45 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.71] by cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 787gHsPbv0218M36; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:27:49 GMT Message-ID: <3D610EBC.B628CCF6@usa.net> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:29:00 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net, lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception References: <01c2425f$a87a2a20$60e97ad1@eng-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, Jim, Wolf and in general all those who reported on the Hendrix mode, thanks for your reports and suggestions. I have implemented a hard limiter similar in function to what John Andrews does with Cool Edit. You can select it, or the hendrixizer, but not both. You can select none, of course. If you want to test it, a new (V0.95a) version of Jason can be found here : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/jaspak_v095a_test.exe or in this alternate server (sometimes faster...) : http://www.i2phd.com/bin/jaspak_v095a_test.exe >From the very simple tests I have done, with AWGN noise neither the hendrixizer nor the hard-clipper seem to bring advantages. With impulsive noise the story is different, but I don't have at the moment the opportunity to perform tests in this condition. A final note : the hard-clipper is activated with Ctrl-C, the hendrizixer with Ctrl-H. Or you can use the Options menu. When you activate one, the other is automatically switched off. As usual, all reports are welcomed. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9613 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 14:22:10 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 14:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 497 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 14:22:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 14:22:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gp6d-00018l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:10:15 +0100 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gp6c-00018J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:10:14 +0100 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.11.192]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id QJQL4KZB; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:19:30 -0300 Message-ID: <003501c2478a$dd3fcc80$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c24640$9855b440$216f36d2@xtr743187> <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020819151600.02afce18@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH tests completed Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:14:59 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rick et al ... > NIL here too ... The same here. I kept the snapshots anyway to look with more care ... The problem between ZL<>PY is that 05:30 UTC means 02:30 local time here ... and sunrise is close to 09:30 UTC (6:30 local time). So just 4 hours of common darkness. > But the fact that the ZL beacon was copied in VE7 again looks promising for > eventual South-America to Europe contacts (rather similar path as ZL-VE7), > let's wait for Brazil to come on 136kHz. I hope this too. The rule making and several changes was addressed to our telecom authorities 2 week ago (includying 137K and 5MHz bands). I hope they accept it as is ... :o) 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13370 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 13:20:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 13:20:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4199 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 13:24:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 13:24:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17go8x-000109-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:08:35 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17go8w-000104-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:08:34 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7JDFtoC233330 for ; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:15:55 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819151600.02afce18@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:20:06 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH tests completed In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819134300.00a87a00@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <001901c24640$9855b440$216f36d2@xtr743187> <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: NIL here too ... But the fact that the ZL beacon was copied in VE7 again looks promising for eventual South-America to Europe contacts (rather similar path as ZL-VE7), let's wait for Brazil to come on 136kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD >Dear Bob, LF Group, > >I monitored the frequency during the morning and evening, but no >recognisable signals were seen, I'm afraid. The noise level was quite low >during the morning here, but much more QRN during the evening, as you >would expect. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > >At 10:49 18/08/2002 +1200, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I can confirm that the ZL6QH beacon was on all night... > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20302 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 12:53:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 12:53:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 11686 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 12:58:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 12:58:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gngp-0000tQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:39:31 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gngo-0000tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:39:31 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17glwG-0007Yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:47:20 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17glwF-0006vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:47:19 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819134300.00a87a00@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:47:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH tests completed In-reply-to: <001901c24640$9855b440$216f36d2@xtr743187> References: <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, LF Group, I monitored the frequency during the morning and evening, but no recognisable signals were seen, I'm afraid. The noise level was quite low during the morning here, but much more QRN during the evening, as you would expect. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU At 10:49 18/08/2002 +1200, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I can confirm that the ZL6QH beacon was on all night... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16082 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 12:41:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 12:41:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16743 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 12:42:01 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 12:42:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gnXh-0000qJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:30:05 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gnXg-0000qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:30:04 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17gln8-0007PV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:37:54 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17gln6-0006OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:37:52 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020819133155.02e09fe0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:37:50 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Piezo oscs In-reply-to: <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Walter, Andy, LF Group, Thanks for the info on the OXCOs. I see from their web-site that HP (sorry, I mean Agilent!) have discontinued their OXCO references - I wonder where they get them from now? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4140 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2002 11:57:51 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 11:57:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 23377 invoked by uid 10001); 19 Aug 2002 12:02:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2002 12:02:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gmf1-0000fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:33:35 +0100 Received: from smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.6.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gmf0-0000fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:33:34 +0100 Received: from tnt-1-71.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.206.71] helo=erica) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17gkuS-000Ao7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:41:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c24777$1178b980$47ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20020818092109.00a881a0@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Re: First QSO on 136KHz with Spain Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:52:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Brian, >This is to confirm that last Friday there took place a QSO between José Manuel EA1PX and myself on 137.693KHz, manual QRS3-hand CW, OOO - 579, La Coruña to Porto about 300Km. Congratulations. QRS3 hand CW takes some concentration - having done it in tests with G3PLX in the early days of 73kHz. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11910 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2002 09:20:54 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Aug 2002 09:20:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11446 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2002 09:21:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2002 09:21:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gNwp-0006hG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:10:19 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gNwo-0006hB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:10:18 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7I9I8I00155 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:18:08 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave-6 (por229.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.229]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7I9I7D18691 for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:18:08 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020818092109.00a881a0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 09:21:09 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: First QSO on 136KHz with Spain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, This is to confirm that last Friday there took place a QSO between José Manuel EA1PX and myself on 137.693KHz, manual QRS3-hand CW, OOO - 579, La Coruña to Porto about 300Km. My congratulations to José Manuel and all encouragements for his enthusiasm. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14669 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2002 08:21:55 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 18 Aug 2002 08:21:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1347 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2002 08:21:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2002 08:21:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gMrW-0006Yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:00:46 +0100 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gMrV-0006Yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:00:45 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.159.12b197af (30950) for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:08:00 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <159.12b197af.2a90afe0@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:08:00 EDT Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH tests completed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Group,

Sorry no reliable trace from ZL6QH here in the northwestern part of DL. WX very bad this time of year (QRN, sferics). Looking forward for the winter season, at least for the sake of LF.

Thanks to the ZL crew for the test, hope you receive better reports from other listeners.

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28747 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 22:55:26 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 22:55:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 22155 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 22:55:44 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 22:55:44 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gE5J-0005cH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:38:25 +0100 Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.144]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17gE5H-0005cC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:38:24 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020817224542.IRED8894.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:45:42 +1200 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.225.143]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020817224539.SVVQ9788.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:45:39 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c24640$9855b440$216f36d2@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Subject: LF: ZL6QH tests completed Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:49:10 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I can confirm that the ZL6QH beacon was on all night, without breaks, close to declared frequencies, and close to starting each Q on the hour. The keying sequence advanced a few seconds an hour from about 1400 to 1810 UTC, but was close to ideal at other times. As yet no reports have been received from outside New Zealand. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2001 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 12:20:51 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 12:20:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25972 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 12:20:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 12:20:21 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g4Gt-0004a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:09:43 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g4Gs-0004Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:09:43 +0100 Received: from [212.1.159.17] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17g2QH-0004yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:11:17 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:17:34 +0100 Message-ID: <01C245F0.733C6280.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Piezo oscs Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:16:38 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: These Piezo modules work OK off a 12 Volt supply. The heater takes several tens of minutes to reach operating temperature (can be even up to an hour in cold weather) but it gets there eventually. The oscillator runs off anything greater than 10V and has an internal regulator. Pin 11 appears to be an oven status output. It has 10k resistance to ground when oven is up to temperature, open circuit when cold. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Walter Blanchard [SMTP:blanch@pncl.co.uk] Sent: 2002-08-17 09:44 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Piezo oscs At 12:10 16/08/02 +0100, you wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >A while ago, I got a 10MHz OCXO reference - one of CARC's surplus goodies. >It is a Piezo Systems model 2810007-1, and appears to be a clone of the >HP10811 references. I have the pin-out for the HP unit, but I remember >G3JKV mentioning that these units had a slightly different pin out from >the HP original - does anybody know what the difference is? Hi Jim, Pin 1 is next to the little hole in the tagboard. 1 = Osc out. 2 = Osc ground 3 = +24v 4 = 24v grd 14 = Oven +24v 15 = Oven grd. They are fast warmup so take 600 mA at 24v for the first 15 mins or so then drop to 80-100 mA. The changeover is very sudden so I suspect it has a dual high/low power heater Walter G3JKV. << File: ATT00003.txt >> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2808 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 11:52:22 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 11:52:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7478 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Aug 2002 11:57:30 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 11:57:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g3h5-0004Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:32:43 +0100 Received: from mta3.snet.net ([204.60.203.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g3h4-0004Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:32:42 +0100 Received: from snet.net (hrfr-sh25-port51.snet.net [204.60.241.51]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id g7HBb3I5029375; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 07:37:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D5E3716.1FEC2A95@snet.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 07:44:22 -0400 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike My results have not been as rosy as those I've read over the past week. I have had several of these bulbs (different types and manufacturers) running for the last few years and thought that they were pretty quiet. As it turned out, they all generated a fairly broadband hum (several kHz wide) centered on about 48 kHz. Energy at the harmonics of 48 kHz was reduced but still sufficient to compromise the receiver noise floor when using an e probe antenna some 200 feet away. Haven't had a chance to run a test with the loop antennas... Jay Rusgrove, W1VD WE0H wrote: > I am using the "Commercial" brand that I bought at Home Depot. They are > quiet on LF and have lasted a year so far. > > Mike>WE0H > http://www.we0h.us/lf.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf > Of Dexter McIntyre W4DEX > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:53 AM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs > > I am the only one that has had these type lamps fail? I have had two. > Both failed after a few years service. Both smelled up the whole house > when the circuitry in the base shorted and melted the plastic. One was > Salvania. The other one was different but I don't remember the brand. > Perhaps the newer ones are more reliable. I did not notice any RFI > problems. > > Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11976 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 08:52:29 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 08:52:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11556 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Aug 2002 08:57:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 08:57:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g11Z-0004Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:41:41 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g11Y-0004Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:41:40 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.17f.cdb7619 (17377) for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:48:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <17f.cdb7619.2a8f67f8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:48:56 EDT Subject: LF: OCXO Information To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Group,

Thanks to Matti's Info, I found this website which may be interesting for you
if you also have an old OXCO in your junk-box:

http://www.vectron-vti.com/products/ocxo/ocxo_archive.htm


Unfortunately, my old device is not mentioned there..

Regards,
Wolf. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24994 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 08:44:25 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 08:44:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21543 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 08:44:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 08:44:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g0u7-0004B6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:33:59 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g0u6-0004B1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:33:58 +0100 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (254.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.254]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g7H8fmgm015047 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:41:49 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020817091402.00a00300@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 09:43:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Re: Piezo oscs In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020816115038.00b11e50@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000409040903010004040805" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000409040903010004040805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 12:10 16/08/02 +0100, you wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >A while ago, I got a 10MHz OCXO reference - one of CARC's surplus goodies. >It is a Piezo Systems model 2810007-1, and appears to be a clone of the >HP10811 references. I have the pin-out for the HP unit, but I remember >G3JKV mentioning that these units had a slightly different pin out from >the HP original - does anybody know what the difference is? Hi Jim, Pin 1 is next to the little hole in the tagboard. 1 = Osc out. 2 = Osc ground 3 = +24v 4 = 24v grd 14 = Oven +24v 15 = Oven grd. They are fast warmup so take 600 mA at 24v for the first 15 mins or so then drop to 80-100 mA. The changeover is very sudden so I suspect it has a dual high/low power heater Walter G3JKV. --------------000409040903010004040805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT09893.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT09893.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02 --------------000409040903010004040805-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1195 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 07:54:03 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 07:54:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25316 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Aug 2002 07:59:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 07:59:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g05z-00044M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:42:11 +0100 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17g05y-00044H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:42:11 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.8.2aff29bd (17526) for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:49:26 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <8.2aff29bd.2a8f5a05@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 03:49:25 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: 10MHz OCXOs - one more query To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Matti, Brian and others,

Thanks for the info about the OCXO. Think I will carefully 'dremel' it open to find out. The enclosure is brass so should be possible to solder it later.

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF / DF0WD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6787 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 05:59:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 05:59:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 20505 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 05:59:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 05:59:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fyJQ-0003sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:47:56 +0100 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fyJP-0003s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:47:55 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d23.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.247] (may be forged)) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g7H5tjl41090 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:55:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:56:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3D5CF596.AFD06FA7@att.net> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am using the "Commercial" brand that I bought at Home Depot. They are quiet on LF and have lasted a year so far. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Dexter McIntyre W4DEX Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:53 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs I am the only one that has had these type lamps fail? I have had two. Both failed after a few years service. Both smelled up the whole house when the circuitry in the base shorted and melted the plastic. One was Salvania. The other one was different but I don't remember the brand. Perhaps the newer ones are more reliable. I did not notice any RFI problems. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22983 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 04:02:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 04:02:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21925 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Aug 2002 04:07:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 04:07:44 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fwV9-0003fW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:51:55 +0100 Received: from post.omnieng.co.uk ([193.82.59.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fwV8-0003fR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:51:54 +0100 Received: from [216.76.43.200] (helo=server1) by post.omnieng.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 17fukb-0005Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:59:46 +0100 From: "Apex" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Stop waiting! Pre-Qualify Instantly Online NOW for your choice of an UNSECURED VISA or MASTERCARD Today! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:00:11 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: usaplat_email5
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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13883 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2002 02:02:08 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 02:02:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21819 invoked by uid 10001); 17 Aug 2002 02:06:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2002 02:06:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fuSu-0003Qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:41:28 +0100 Received: from public.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.10] helo=public1.thorcom.com ident=[n4n14HEx0wYL9VSyIijHJqHDrR3v8a47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fuSt-0003Qq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 04:41:27 +0100 Received: from pc3-grnk1-3-cust211.ren.cable.ntl.com ([213.107.30.211] helo=port-glasgow.com) by public1.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17fsiN-0000Vc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:49:19 +0100 From: "Ted" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Hi from Ted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:49:22 +0100 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, I saw your name on a guestbook and thought that you might be interested in this opportunity. 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You can join the DHS Club for FREE with no risk or obligation. As a DHS Club Member, you will be able to shop at The DHS Club Outlet Center. You will also be able to shop at The ClubShop Stores, located in the ClubShop Mall, where you will receive rebates on your purchases as per our affinity agreements. (Just remember, our affiliate stores are independent merchants and shipping charges will vary.) You will also be able be entered into Postlaunch and receive a FREE position in the Club's network. Watch as others join your downline and see how our innovative network building program works. To learn more about the DHS Club and our exciting REFERNET Marketing Program and Postlaunch, visit my web page at <> Remember, you have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain! Ted Simpson To unsubscribe from this and receive no more email, please send a blank email to unsubscribedhs@port-glasgow.com <> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21988 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 20:55:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 20:55:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 11165 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 21:00:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 21:00:00 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fpom-0002m4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:43:44 +0100 Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.146]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fpok-0002lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:43:43 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020816205100.JZFR2692.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:51:00 +1200 Received: from xtr743187 ([219.88.16.118]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020816205059.DLUG24208.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:50:59 +1200 Message-ID: <001101c24567$66e18940$761058db@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c24549$80b0e140$cd637ad5@main> Subject: LF: ZL6QH beacon tests Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:55:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, A reminder that ZL6QH will be starting beacon tests in several hours time, including all hours of local darkness. Local time is 0536 UTC for ZL6QH sunset and 1912 UTC for ZL6QH sunrise. Dual frequency keying will be used, with 0.4 Hz frequency shift, with ID. hi = 137.7890 kHz lo = 137.7886 kHz 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19802 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 17:25:39 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 17:25:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 22360 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 17:30:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 17:30:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fmYT-0002Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:14:41 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fmYS-0002Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:14:40 +0100 Received: from host213-122-99-205.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.99.205] helo=main) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17fknv-00007I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:22:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c24549$80b0e140$cd637ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: LF Propagation Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:27:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, KN4LF who runs an MF propagation site, forecasts the posibility of an X-Class flare from a huge cluster of sunspots designated #10069. It is not yet "pointing at the Earth" so if it errupts soon any CME will pass us by. However if it continues "winding its self up"as if moves across the face of the sun, we could be in for a big one. The Spaceweather site also has interesting information.... =========================== Space Weather News for August 15, 2002 http://www.spaceweather.com AURORAS: A coronal mass ejection that left the Sun on August 14th could buffet Earth's magnetic field on August 15th or 16th. Sky watchers at high latitudes (e.g., Canada, New Zealand and the northern tier of US states) should be alert for auroras especially during the hours around local midnight on Thursday and Friday. AN ASTEROID: Asteroids are usually hard to see, but you can spot one this weekend using only a small telescope or good binoculars. The unusualy bright space rock, 2002 NY40, will glide by Earth on August 17th and 18th only a little farther from our planet than the Moon. (There's no danger of a collision.) Visit spaceweather.com for links to sky maps and observing tips. A SUNSPOT: Who said solar max is over? The Sun is once again peppered with spots. The largest, active region 69, is truly impressive. It spans an area seven times greater than the surface area of Earth and poses a threat for powerful flares. The big spot is easy to see from Earth--but never stare directly at the Sun! Instead, use safe solar projection methods described at spaceweather.com. ================================ Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6928 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 15:56:01 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 15:56:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 8945 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 16:01:08 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 16:01:08 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fkzl-0002DS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:34:45 +0100 Received: from fep01-0.kolumbus.fi ([193.229.0.41] helo=fep01-app.kolumbus.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fkzk-0002DN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:34:44 +0100 Received: from merocomp ([62.248.129.24]) by fep01-app.kolumbus.fi with SMTP id <20020816154235.SVOS18308.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@merocomp> for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:42:35 +0300 Message-ID: <000d01c2453c$05ad6840$1c076c0a@arenanet.fi> From: "Matti Niemela" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <71.240ac9ae.2a8e61b7@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: 10MHz OCXOs - one more query Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:46:01 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Wolf,
 
About the 10MHz oscillator you asked I can only give a hint, that QK in rombic means Quarzkeramik, the German company which locates in Stockdorf. The company belongs now to Vectron Group.
I have lot of QK-made high stable crystals in glass holders, but I am not familiar with the type you asked. Most probably it is OCXO.
 
Best 73
 
Matti/OH2ZT
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: LF: 10MHz OCXOs - one more query

Dear Group,

I am also looking for details for a 10 MHz OXCO(?!) which I bought at the HAM Radio fair in Friedrichshafen this year. The dealer did not have much info about it (i still await his email) so any info about this is very much appreciated. He only told me it was once used in "commercial equipment" whatever that means.
The oscillator is encapsuled in a metal housing, about 5 * 5 * 1.5 cm, and labelled:

"QK" (in a rhombic company logo)
"Quarzosz. 770810 - 10M"
"10 MHz 12V= +- 10%"
"BS 15659"

There are 8 pins on the bottom. I am not even sure if its really an OCXO or a TCXO, I didn't dare to connect the DC power to check if smoke or a rectangular wave comes out of the little cube...

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15440 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 14:19:36 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 14:19:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18030 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 14:19:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 14:19:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fjYg-000215-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:02:42 +0100 Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.100]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fjYf-00020W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:02:41 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.71.240ac9ae (3842) for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <71.240ac9ae.2a8e61b7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:09:59 EDT Subject: LF: 10MHz OCXOs - one more query To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Group,

I am also looking for details for a 10 MHz OXCO(?!) which I bought at the HAM Radio fair in Friedrichshafen this year. The dealer did not have much info about it (i still await his email) so any info about this is very much appreciated. He only told me it was once used in "commercial equipment" whatever that means.
The oscillator is encapsuled in a metal housing, about 5 * 5 * 1.5 cm, and labelled:

"QK" (in a rhombic company logo)
"Quarzosz. 770810 - 10M"
"10 MHz 12V= +- 10%"
"BS 15659"

There are 8 pins on the bottom. I am not even sure if its really an OCXO or a TCXO, I didn't dare to connect the DC power to check if smoke or a rectangular wave comes out of the little cube...

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8086 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 13:37:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 13:37:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26306 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 11:15:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 11:15:21 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fgkT-0001ea-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:41 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fgkS-0001eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:02:40 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17fezv-0006mF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:10:31 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17fezt-0000F3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:10:29 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020816115038.00b11e50@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:10:27 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 10MHz OCXOs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, A while ago, I got a 10MHz OCXO reference - one of CARC's surplus goodies. It is a Piezo Systems model 2810007-1, and appears to be a clone of the HP10811 references. I have the pin-out for the HP unit, but I remember G3JKV mentioning that these units had a slightly different pin out from the HP original - does anybody know what the difference is? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4486 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 12:55:11 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 12:55:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 11194 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 13:00:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 13:00:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fiKf-0001pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:44:09 +0100 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fiKe-0001po-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:44:08 +0100 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.250]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license 2d687b22c655f23831a2faa19b737467) with ESMTP id <20020816125256.KIBY331.host4@att.net> for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:52:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3D5CF596.AFD06FA7@att.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:52:38 -0400 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs References: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> <012a01c24224$5e5cef80$9c2cfd3e@default> <000501c244f0$cf36a560$2e734ac3@pcuser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am the only one that has had these type lamps fail? I have had two. Both failed after a few years service. Both smelled up the whole house when the circuitry in the base shorted and melted the plastic. One was Salvania. The other one was different but I don't remember the brand. Perhaps the newer ones are more reliable. I did not notice any RFI problems. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19511 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 08:01:18 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 08:01:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 18447 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 08:06:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 08:06:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fdkU-0001GS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:50:30 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fdkT-0001GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:50:30 +0100 Received: from host213-122-147-50.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.147.50] helo=kevin) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17fbzx-0004ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:58:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c244fa$928b2320$c743063e@kevin> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> <012a01c24224$5e5cef80$9c2cfd3e@default> <000501c244f0$cf36a560$2e734ac3@pcuser> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:56:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > It seemed to me that the wiring between the transformer and the > lightfittings would radiate horribly. The length of the cable between > transformer > and lamps would depend on the building and who wired them up ! These low voltage lighting "transformers" do indeed radiate truly horrendous amounts of hash right across the LF/MF range. There used to be some in our kitchen but they very quickly got removed after I started LF listening. Even LW/MW broadcast reception suffered noticeably, although the lead lengths on the low voltage side of this installation were no more than about 1.5 - 2m. On the other hand, the GE low-energy lamp in my lab is almost silent on 136kHz - which was something of a pleasant surprise. 73, Kevin G1HDQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5772 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 07:00:40 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 07:00:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 27248 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 07:00:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 07:00:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fcea-00016a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:40:20 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fceZ-00016V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:40:19 +0100 Received: from [212.1.156.117] (helo=pcuser) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17fao6-0006fW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 07:42:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c244f0$cf36a560$2e734ac3@pcuser> From: "Hugh Burnham" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> <012a01c24224$5e5cef80$9c2cfd3e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 22:42:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Tracey I have a house full of Low Energy lamps, of various manufacture, Ring, GEC, Osram, Philips, Ikea, and not noticed any problems with noise on VLF. Where the ballast is built into the lamp, there is very little lead length to radiate - the situation might be different if the lamps are mounted remotely from an electronic ballast. Many homes and businesses use Low Voltage lighting - 12 V halogen lamps powered by transformers. Where these systems employ "electronic" transformers, the potential for interferance is very great, as the currents in the cables are quite high. I looked at a Ring DET-65 dimmable Electronic Transformer a few years ago, and found it produced a 23kHz square wave, with a 100Hz envelope. On a spectrum Analyser this produced an impressive comb of frequencies going upwards from 23kHz. The circuit was a two transistor power oscillator, and the frequency drifted all over the place with load and temperature. The output waveform had a peak voltage of 18V and would drive up to 50W of 12V lamps - so quite a bit of chopped current could flow. It seemed to me that the wiring between the transformer and the lightfittings would radiate horribly. The length of the cable between transformer and lamps would depend on the building and who wired them up ! I don't want them anywhere near my house, especially when you can buy toroidal transformers that do the same job at 50Hz ! 73 Hugh Burnham M0WYE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19078 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 26064 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 06:55:48 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 06:55:48 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fcTT-00014v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:28:51 +0100 Received: from mail.mcf.com ([165.254.158.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fcTS-00014q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:28:50 +0100 Received: from w2ksn (192.55.122.104) by mail.mcf.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.3) for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:36:41 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c244ee$bb1e5e30$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020813153546.00aa3f28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <004101c244a2$6b6b73b0$687a37c0@w2ksn> <006e01c244ad$addf03a0$612565d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:32:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Johan and all, > does your Jason decoder try to keep track of symbol timing > or does it only wait looking for the next transition (as the native > decoder)? It averages over the last 16 or so symbols (~8 characters) to find the symbol boundaries. > If timing is important, how will slight timing errors affect > performance? The present decoder is not hurt much by a symbol frequency error of a few parts per thousand. But future decoders might examine longer stretches. If symbol timing is derived from even a mediocre crystal oscillator, e.g. 100 ppm error, that should be adequate for presently foreseen enhancements. Of course, if you could use same clock as generates the carrier, that would be even better. > You mentioned "symbol phase", do you mean MSNibble/LSNibble > or does the decoder expect the signal to be "phase coherent"? The current decoder is noncoherent. One might expect that 3 dB could be gained from coherent detection, but that is not the case with M-ary FSK systems. In fact, as M goes to infinity, the performance asymptotically approaches the Shannon limit, even when noncoherent detection is used! For M = 16, only about 1 dB gain is possible. However, if many symbols are transmitted for each symbol of useful information content (because error correction is employed, and/or integration is performed over multiple repetitions of the message), then the gain from coherent detection is greater. Such a system would not interoperate with the current Jason standard, but could potentially offer much better performance. If your PIC design is flexible and could eventually handle a new format, it would be nice if it could avoid losing coherency on symbol transitions. > playing with a PIC/DDS Jason beacon, currently on HF, 7000.038 kHz...) I don't recommend my decoder for HF; it was designed with the stability of a typical LF path in mind. When there is significant multipath, or the effective height of the ionosphere is rapidly changing, Alberto's decoder will perform much better. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22991 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 00:51:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 00:51:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 8866 invoked by uid 10001); 16 Aug 2002 00:56:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 00:56:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fX2p-0000S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 03:40:59 +0100 Received: from ool-18bfaa5c.dyn.optonline.net ([24.191.170.92] helo=block.iamanidiot.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fX2o-0000S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 03:40:59 +0100 Received: from block.callsign.net (davidwillmore@localhost) by block.iamanidiot.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7G0m7F08953; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:48:08 -0500 Message-ID: <200208160048.g7G0m7F08953@block.iamanidiot.com> To: njqrp@njqrp.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net, lf@amrad.org, psk31@bipt106.bi.ehu.es Subject: LF: PSK31 no longer audio beacon -- update Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 20:48:07 -0400 From: "David Willmore" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Just a quick email to let everyone know that the enhancements to the NJQRP PSK31 audio beacon kit are going well. With the help of Peter G3PLX, I have been able to get the PSK31 modulation code working. The code is in such a state that it can send a pre-varicoded message from a table in ROM. This is as far as I can go without messing with the serial port and building the EEPROM daughter card--which are the next steps. I've had to modify the name of the project a little as it's no longer an 'audio' beacon. As it uses DDS to generate the waveform and because it samples at 500KHz, it can easily produce output up to 200KHz. At 1KHz, run directly into a PC sound card, most programs claim that its IMD is around -52 to -56 db. I have no way of measuring it at RF as I don't even have a scope, but when received through an FT-817, and piped into a PC sound card, it comes out at -31 db IMD--which is receiver limited. I did PSK31 first as it's the hardest of the modes I hope to generate. It takes two DDS operations and a multiply while the others take two DDS operations and an add(MSK16) or just one DDS operation (CW, QRSs, Dif-CW, Jason). Now that I know I can fit the complicated mode in, the others will be a lot easier. It even looks like it will be possible to take 'live' input from a serial connection for all modes--PSK31 might not make it, but I will try. Several people mentioned wanting PSK31 receive. Well, I didn't think it was possible, at first, but I'm starting to think that it might not be all that far fetched. At 50 8 bit MIPS, I can do 1.5M 8x8 multiplies/sec. At a 4KHz sampling rate, that's 375 multiplies/sample. That might just be enough for a few simple FIR filters, etc. Memory will be the killer for that, though. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them. It's starting to look like it *might* be possible. No promises, though. Thanks, Peter. Cheers, David N0YMV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12235 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 22:51:18 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 22:51:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 6066 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Aug 2002 22:55:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 22:55:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fV8o-0000EV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:39:02 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fV8n-0000EQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 01:39:01 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.97]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020815224651.OJBL17723.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:46:51 +0200 Message-ID: <006e01c244ad$addf03a0$612565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020813153546.00aa3f28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <004101c244a2$6b6b73b0$687a37c0@w2ksn> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:47:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stewart, does your Jason decoder try to keep track of symbol timing or does it only wait looking for the next transition (as the native decoder)? If timing is important, how will slight timing errors affect performance? You mentioned "symbol phase", do you mean MSNibble/LSNibble or does the decoder expect the signal to be "phase coherent"? 73 Johan SM6LKM (playing with a PIC/DDS Jason beacon, currently on HF, 7000.038 kHz...) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5560 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 21:38:43 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 21:38:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 9757 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Aug 2002 21:43:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 21:43:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fTvw-000059-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:21:40 +0100 Received: from mail.mcf.com ([165.254.158.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fTvv-000053-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:21:39 +0100 Received: from w2ksn (192.55.122.104) by mail.mcf.com with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.3) for ; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 17:29:30 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c244a2$6b6b73b0$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020813153546.00aa3f28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:26:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim and all, > BTW, when watching the decoder in action, "G4JNT" first decoded correctly, > then the decoder retrospectively blanked out the "G" - On the whole, I > think it would be useful if the decoder prints some character even if it > "knows" the character is wrong - perhaps a non- alphanumeric character like > a question mark or just a blank. That way, the operator would know how many > characters had been missed - although it would mean more garbage on the screen. The decoder does print a lower case 'x' for invalid characters. Your case is a different bug -- the decoder mistakenly thought that the symbol phase had changed, and there was no place for a character with the new phase. Unfortunately, one can't simply ignore such shifts; we need to accommodate restarts at the Tx end, retuning of the Rx, Tx started after Rx, etc. So the decoder needs to compare, using a suitable metric, the quality of the various choices, and output the most robust. This will still sometimes be wrong, but it should be a significant improvement. I'll try to address this in the next version. 73, Stewart From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21717 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 21:18:21 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 21:18:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 23900 invoked by uid 10001); 15 Aug 2002 21:23:28 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 21:23:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fTY7-0008Sd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:57:03 +0100 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fTY3-0008SY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:57:00 +0100 Received: from 209-122-234-47.s2111.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.234.47] helo=eng-laptop) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17fRn7-0006Jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 17:04:26 -0400 From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 17:00:43 -0400 Message-ID: <01c2449e$d1e59200$LocalHost@eng-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070003090906000509050300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070003090906000509050300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Alberto, et al:
 
I was running Jason with the Hendrixizer this afternoon, and noticed that I was getting perfect copy despite a lot of static crashes. I restarted the program with the Hendrix mode OFF, and turned it back ON where the red "X" appears on the screen shot.
 
 
This is a recording made of my  Lowfer beacon (1watt DC input) at a distance of 200 kM, in the late afternoon. I have been getting perfect copy during the daylight hours each day this week, as long as the Hendrix mode was enabled. My receiver's AGC is off, and the louder static crashes are clipping in the receiver. 
 
So the extra processing, however done, appears to be worth it.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG
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ArAuQDrRG1IIJ3zZF2sxrIbHa7fcIqj1LfSx0lNWxuFqFiTiFDEDi3ga8qQCzFQN9HEX8bF/ OX+7r4l/jaj+f/f0CtUDpDjmfVOAhbt3gFnwOmrY7Q9XM9Y6tNLVSB3PEHioACga2SDreyfn Q6zAMAtGD1V2lsUlXq4sheKWQOsQUsQqEDkR7z5JJ9o6LW+Iv9YvXk/zD+/+/oNV7plxvnvG EQFsD/iPg+evOfXyfn+gdedZwmvvl+3r0Mfw61fj170QhbN/t685ft619e/h0QhbOX5dZs9a h8de9EIWzkes5H8utfWdEIWzl+3rOX7+tXXq/HRCFs5H8uvOXXx1nRCFs5dYH619Z0QhCMR3 3cqf9nW/+2rOs68g/wCdup/2db/7as6zrhqfrKa//9k= --------------070003090906000509050300-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15895 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 15:19:58 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 15:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 13519 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 15:20:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 15:20:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fO6Y-0007rF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 18:08:14 +0100 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fO6X-0007rA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 18:08:13 +0100 Received: from jsm (gi105.imagenisp.com [204.244.17.113]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id QZ493JRT; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:18:03 -0700 Message-ID: <002e01c2446f$921985c0$7111f4cc@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:45:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many, many thanks to all of you that took the time to reply to my inquiry. Many of you wrote very detailed replies. In general, the advice tended to indicate that VFO's are out, for anything but straight CW, while crystals/mixed can provide reasonable stability for short QRSS work (QRSS3-10). For long duration QRSS, DDS stability / frequency setting will be required. Thanks again...you have all given me much to think about! Steve / VE7SL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23467 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 08:55:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 08:55:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29618 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2002 08:55:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2002 08:55:18 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fHvz-00078v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:32:55 +0100 Received: from public.thorcom.com ([193.82.116.10] helo=public1.thorcom.com ident=[MoA6edKUASMLlNpy3Nyhvpk7jIYJ3L1u]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17fHvz-00078q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:32:55 +0100 Received: from alagny-108-1-3-92.abo.wanadoo.fr ([81.48.142.92] helo=default) by public1.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17fGBS-0005ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:40:47 +0100 From: "\(received from\) smtp.microsoft.com" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: The Next John Lennon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:26:23 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: http://www.themusic.com/ChocolateSpinach/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8074 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 23:39:31 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 23:39:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 11086 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 23:39:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 23:39:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f9Q6-0006Dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:27:26 +0100 Received: from smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.6.11]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f9Q5-0006Di-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:27:25 +0100 Received: from tnt-5-38.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.200.38] helo=erica) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17f7fX-00073f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:35:16 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01c243ec$f21fac20$26c828c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> Subject: LF: Re: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:41:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve >I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). In the early period of 73kHz experiments I first used an audio signal generator as an exciter then VFO. Neither of these were stable but was useful to get going. When 136kHz became available I used an old RF signal generator, which was better, fine for CW but QRSS signals were slightly frequency modulated by the keying and produced distinctive wiggle on the received display. I would imagine the synthesized signal generators would be OK. >The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. I used a two crystal arrangement with FETs and then was became aware of the DJ1ZB design so I used his amplifier/driver and filter. I used differential capacitor tuning with no inductors. By this I mean increasing the capacitance across the one crystal while reducing it on the other. By this time test transmissions were being made for transatlantic tests. In this situation the requirement was to maintain the frequency within 1Hz over several hours. This proved difficult with the crystal mixer arrangement. Alan Melia, G3NYK, kindly supplied me with several crystal pairs, the lower frequency crystals gave better stability but a reduced tuning range as you might expect. My first 136kHz transatlatic crossband QSO was done using a two crystal exciter. >Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will be stable enough to handle QRSS work? No. Use crystals with no inductors or a synthesized signal generator; or go for DDS. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13932 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 22:38:14 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 22:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 14683 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Aug 2002 22:42:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 22:42:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f8SV-00066S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:25:51 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f8SU-00066N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:25:50 +0100 Received: from host213-122-243-78.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.243.78] helo=main) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17f6hx-0004Hg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:33:41 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c243e2$a8812120$4ef37ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 16MHz TCXOs Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:28:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the chat about frequency stability has reminded me I have got hold of a few unused SEI TCXOs for 16MHz. Not quite as useful as 10MHz but easily divided down to 1MHz. The spec is not brilliant 2 in 10^6 over -10 to +60 deg C. I guess that equates to a few parts in 10^7 over normal shack temperature ranges. At least It is probably better than an unknown crystal. Unfortunately there is no voltage adjustment only a trimmer tweak. Well you cant have everything !! They can go for £2-00 each (plus postage), which is cheaper than a computer osc module, though these are a bit bigger. They run at 5volt, give TTL logic level output, and have a drive capability (fan-out) of I TTL input. Cheers de Alan G3NYK QTHR alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20528 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 20:55:20 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 20:55:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 20380 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 20:55:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 20:55:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f6sN-0005qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:44:27 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f6sM-0005qP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:44:26 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.41.159]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020814205217.KFEC3168.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:52:17 +0200 Message-ID: <003301c243d4$8260b9a0$9f2965d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200208141914.g7EJE0X25691@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Subject: LF: [off-band again] Weak Jason test signal Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:51:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All I am transmitting a 10mW Jason signal on 3594 kHz (center), USB mode. It will be on the air until 1200UTC tomorrow. 72 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24953 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 19:26:33 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 19:26:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21583 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 19:26:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 19:26:42 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f5Lk-0005f2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:06:40 +0100 Received: from mailgate5.cinetic.de ([217.72.192.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f5Lj-0005ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:06:39 +0100 Received: from web.de (fmomail01.dlan.cinetic.de [172.20.1.45]) by mailgate5.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id g7EJE0X25691 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:14:00 +0200 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:14:00 +0200 Message-ID: <200208141914.g7EJE0X25691@mailgate5.cinetic.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: "Hans-Albrecht Haffa" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs, at me , DK 8 ND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Tracey, Energy saving bulbs in Edison 27 Socket I am using in my flat cause some Iinterference on LW. So I have in the shack parallel an other set of common bulbs. When qrv on 136k, all energy bulbs are swiched off. Energy saving bulbs contain a self resonant converter f=30 kHz, the neon-lamp is in parallel to the resonant circuit. The resonant Voltage in theis circuit will rise till the ignition voltage of the lamp is reached. Reason for the annoying harmonics is probably the square wave chopper previous to the resonant circuit. EMC-regulations are usualy not made for lw-reception, but solely to reach a minimum of compatibility of different equipment. 73, 55 Hans-Albrecht Haffa DK 8 ND > I bought two low energy bulbs some years ago and they turned out to be > horrendous interference generators, I threw them out as soon as I found that > out. Has anybody else has problems with low energy bulbs? > > Tracey > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ WEB.DE MyPage - Ultimatives Kommunikationstool! Ihre Message sofort online! Domain aenderbar! http://www.das.ist.aber.ne.lustige.sache.ms/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19559 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 19:17:57 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 19:17:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16112 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 19:18:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 19:18:10 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f5Bn-0005cL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:56:23 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17f5Bm-0005cG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:56:22 +0100 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (250.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.250]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g7EJ4Bii005915 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:04:12 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814195022.009fa1c0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:06:03 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: FT-817 Osc Stability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080206060103030102040705" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080206060103030102040705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At the Crawley LF roundtable a few weeks ago somebody asked me if I'd measured the stability of an FT-817, but I hadn't. Now I have. After running it for 24 hrs I set it to track a harmonic of my 5 MHz Rb standard at 145 MHz. Over the following 24 hrs it very slowly drifted about as the shack temperature changed but never exceeded 20 Hz deviation. This on its standard osc, NOT the hi-stab TCXO option. This is quite remarkably good - far better than my Icom 706 which has ICOM's "hi-stab" option and constantly jitters 30-50 Hz at the same freq. mainly due to its internal fan. It's not far off my IC-821 which also has the hi-stab option. I've written to ICOM recommending they should provide a facility in all their top-end stuff for inputting a sub-standard 5 or 10 MHz as frequency reference. No reply yet! Incidentally I think the idea of buying a cheap synthesized HF sig gen as the basis of an LF rig an excellent one. Nobody wants sig gens that don't go to 1 GHz these days so they're quite cheap and if they have a first-order OCXO as reference they'll do very nicely. Stewarts of Reading have a vast selection and are very helpful. Walter G3JKV. --------------080206060103030102040705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT09914.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT09914.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02 --------------080206060103030102040705-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20509 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 11:40:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 11:40:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 2961 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Aug 2002 11:45:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 11:45:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eyDH-0004ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:29:27 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eyDG-0004nZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:29:26 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17ewSk-000431-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:37:18 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ewSZ-0000O7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:37:07 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020814113217.00aba170@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:35:11 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? In-reply-to: <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 11:56 13/08/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice. >I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my >136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). >The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am >questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, >to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz >and set them 136KHz apart, that will be stable enough to handle QRSS work? Dear Steve, LF Group, Mixing 2 VFOs or VXOs together to obtain a lower difference frequency does nothing to improve the stability - in fact it makes it worse unless you can guarantee that both oscillators have exactly the same drift, which they won't. The crystals mixed together works quite well because the crystals have quite good stability to start with, but the 136kHz difference frequency will be much less stable than a single crystal oscillator operating on, or divided down to, 136k. The same applies to VFOs - it would be much better to make a single 136k VFO, and apply temperature compensation to get near zero tempco than it would be to make 2 HF VFOs and try and get identical tempcos. I used a 13.6MHz VFO divided by 100 - this has the advantage that it is easy to measure the VFO frequency to 1Hz resolution, and therefore the output frequency to 0.01Hz resolution. It was fairly easy to get the output frequency to stay within a few Hz, which is quite adequate for QRSS3 contacts, but you would not want to leave it running all night unattended, or use it with more than 10s dot lengths. The crystal mixing scheme has comparable stability, and is somewhat easier to make than a stable VFO. If you could accept a narrow tuning range, perhaps 50Hz at 136k, replacing the VFO with a VXO would be a viable solution. A simple crystal oscillator seems to give adequate stability for QRSS30 provided the ambient temperature is fairly constant. To improve on this, you need a TCXO or, better, an OCXO - this is also true for PLL or DDS synthesisers, which are only as stable as their reference oscillators, of course. My own solution to a stable drive frequency was simply to buy an old synthesised signal generator. These are fairly cheap now, especially if you get one that does not cover VHF/UHF. I got a Racal 9084, which covers 10k - 104MHz - I divide the 13.6MHz output by 100 to give 0.1Hz resolution at 136k. The internal OCXO gives stability better than 1 part in 10^7, it stays well within 0.01Hz at 136k. It has many other uses in the shack apart from being a VFO of course. Bear in mind if you buy one of these old units, you will probably have to repair it at some stage! Quite a few people have used an HF rig with the output divided down in a similar way, but unless the rig has a high stability reference, the stability will be that of the "ordinary crystal" reference oscillator The requirements for Jason are a bit different - you need digital selection from 1 of 16 frequencies. The stability is somewhat relaxed by the differential nature of Jason, but the frequency shifts need to be quite accurate to preserve the coding correctly. This makes an analogue FSK scheme quite tricky. You could use a DDS scheme like G4JNT and SM6LKM. In my case, I take a 4.5kHz signal generated by the sound card output from Jason, and mix it up to 136kHz with the Racal sig gen. You could generate QRSS in a similar way if you wished - the drawback is the need to calibrate the sound card frequency errors. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19435 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:31:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:31:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6799 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:31:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:31:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ewCe-0004X3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:20:40 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ewCd-0004Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:20:39 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7E9S0Dx141794 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:28:00 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020814112140.00b41ad8@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:32:04 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? In-reply-to: References: <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Tom and Steve, Some years ago I built a 3.5MHz QRP TX using a 3.58MHz ceramic resonator. After some experimenting with the caps (to compensate the temperature drift of the ceramic resonator and the FET) I obtained a drift of less than 10Hz/hour. Divided down to 136kHz this would be a drift of 0.4Hz/hour, good enough for QRSS at 3 or 10 sec/dot but maybe a bit on the edge for the TA stuff at 1 min/dot or slower. The frequency range was 75kHz at 3.5MHz, so that would be about 2.8kHz at 136kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD At 09:10 14/08/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Steve > >Buy one of the ceramic (as opposed to quartz) resonators in the 2.5 MHz >region and use in a VXO circuit. About 100pF variable gives me band >coverage. Divide by 18 for 136 output, any drift is also divided by 18. >It's nice and stable for normal CW operation but I have never actually >measured its stablilty so have no idea if good enough for QRSS. > >73, Tom G3OLB > >In message <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm>, Steve McDonald > writes > >Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice. > >I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my > 136KHz tx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14042 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:07:54 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:07:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15078 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:08:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:08:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evq6-0004RT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:57:22 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evq5-0004RL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:57:21 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.3a.2aec1ce3 (17526) for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 05:04:36 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <3a.2aec1ce3.2a8b7723@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 05:04:35 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 8/13/02 7:54:19 PM GMT Daylight Time, jsm@gulfislands.com writes:


Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice.
I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will  be stable enough to handle QRSS work? I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals??

Steve / VE7SL  Mayne Island, BC





Hi Steve

The 300 W transmitter detailed on my web site uses 2 crystals at 8.000 and 8.275 to generate 136kHz.   I selected 8 MHz to get the VXO portion to cover most of the 136kHz allocation. I think your 1MHz solution would have less drift, but would also only cover a very small portion of the band. Good enough for QRSS only.

The real problem will be frequency setting accuracy. It is very difficult to set a VXO to within 100mHz and for keeping a sked overnight, where you may wish to leave the TX running and wait for your phone to ring, a DDS would be a better long term choice.

The crystals will work, but I suspect after a while you'll start searching for a DDS.

73

David  G0MRF        www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/300w.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22248 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:00:10 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:00:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1973 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 09:00:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 09:00:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evig-0004Pm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:49:42 +0100 Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.145]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evie-0004Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:49:41 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020814085659.QWWC1010.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:56:59 +1200 Received: from bob2l2u6k2n1g3 ([210.54.225.70]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020814085658.YUED24208.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@bob2l2u6k2n1g3> for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:56:58 +1200 Message-ID: <001501c24370$e1d2c540$46e136d2@bob2l2u6k2n1g3> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01c2425f$a87a2a20$60e97ad1@eng-laptop> Subject: LF: ZL6QH beacon tests 17 August Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 20:57:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL6QH 137.7888 kHz BEACON TEST ON 17 AUGUST ZL6QH will be carrying out beacon tests on Saturday 17 August, starting before ZL6QH sunset and going till after ZL6QH sunrise. Hours of local darkness for ZL6QH are from nominally 0536 UTC (sunset) to 1912 UTC (sunrise). Dual frequency keying will be used, with 0.4 Hz frequency shift. The coding is for an ID character of Q, sent as hi, hi, lo, hi, key up. hi = 137.7890 kHz lo = 137.7886 kHz Each element is 120 seconds (dot length) so sending each Q takes 10 minutes. Each Q will start on the hour, and each following Q will keep close to a 10 minute cycle within the hour, which could be useful for analysing results during a brief propagation lift. Listening out with a receiver carefully set to 137.7888 kHz centre frequency and using Argo software to process demodulated audio fed to a PC sound card is the recommended way to try for DX reception. Reception reports can be emailed to vernall@xtra.co.nz or posted to the reflector. Good luck to all listeners. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20837 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 08:37:19 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 08:37:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4763 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Aug 2002 08:42:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 08:42:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evLZ-0004Lq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:25:49 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.85]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17evLY-0004Ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:25:48 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 17etb0-0003FL-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:33:39 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:10:43 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? In-reply-to: <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Buy one of the ceramic (as opposed to quartz) resonators in the 2.5 MHz region and use in a VXO circuit. About 100pF variable gives me band coverage. Divide by 18 for 136 output, any drift is also divided by 18. It's nice and stable for normal CW operation but I have never actually measured its stablilty so have no idea if good enough for QRSS. 73, Tom G3OLB In message <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm>, Steve McDonald writes >Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice. >I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7358 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 08:15:00 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 08:15:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15021 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 08:14:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 08:14:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ev07-0004Ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:03:39 +0100 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ev06-0004HP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:03:38 +0100 Received: from dell-rik.fys.kuleuven.ac.be ([10.33.165.177]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7E8AxDx176882 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:10:59 +0200 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020814100715.00b253d8@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:15:01 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? In-reply-to: <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Steve,

If you want to go for a VFO design I wouldn't use 2 VFO's and mix down but a single VFO and divide down.
In my early days on 136kHz I used a 8.7MHz VFO and divided it by 64. Using a simple 'no nonsense' VFO I achieved a stability of a few Hz, more than good enough for normal CW. Later, as QRSS became,  popular I phase-locked the VFO improving stability to better than 0.1Hz.
There are a lot of nice (and excellent) DDS designs, but the advantage of a good old PLL design is that you can do it with a handfull of cheap and easy-available CMOS IC's.

73, Rik  ON7YD

At 11:56 13/08/2002 -0700, you wrote:
Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice.
I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will  be stable enough to handle QRSS work? I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals??
 
Steve / VE7SL  Mayne Island, BC
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15822 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 07:14:10 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 07:14:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 22081 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 07:14:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 07:14:25 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17etuH-000471-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:53:33 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17etuG-00046w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:53:32 +0100 Received: from host213-122-172-142.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.172.142] helo=jackie) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17es9j-0004xD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:01:24 +0100 Message-ID: <003201c24361$03108c20$8eac7ad5@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:05:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- From: Dave Brown To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 13 August 2002 22:48 Subject: LF: Re: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? >Hi Steve >I suggest you take a look at the following URL- it is VERY inexpensive and I >believe will do everything that you could possibly want. > >http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/ > There's a simple hardware design that should suit basic QRSS (but not Jason) at http://www.wireless.org.uk/dds.htm , especially if you change to a proper oscillator circuit. Add a varicap across the crystal and you can easily get 5Hz shift for FSK. Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10216 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2002 00:08:28 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 00:08:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21474 invoked by uid 10001); 14 Aug 2002 00:13:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2002 00:13:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17enPq-0003M5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:57:42 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17enPp-0003M0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:57:42 +0100 Received: from fwd11.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17elf4-0003ox-02; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:05:18 +0200 Received: from 217.2.40.241 (087321565-0001@[217.2.40.241]) by fwd11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17elf1-11QWQLC; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:05:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 13 Aug 2002 23:57 GMT Message-ID: <17elf1-11QWQLC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Steve, I myself have not bothered too much about the stability of my crystal mixer vfo because I am using it for normal CW only. But DJ2EY recently reported to me that he had also built my built crystal mixer. He has inserted both crystals into a massive copper block to achieve a good thermo contact between both (he is good in mechanical designs, his former profession), and he is really pleased with the stability (like DF3LP himself has been, who has also worked QRSS). But DJ2EY has used higher frequency crystals, he does not need any inductance in the vxo to cover the band, just a variable capacitor. I hope this may help You in your decision. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB "Steve McDonald" schrieb: >Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice. >I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will be stable enough to handle QRSS work? I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals?? > >Steve / VE7SL Mayne Island, BC > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21830 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 22:50:56 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 22:50:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 9971 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 22:51:07 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 22:51:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17emAu-00039H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:38:12 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17emAt-00039C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:38:11 +0100 Received: from host213-122-228-69.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.228.69] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17ekQL-0007Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:46:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c2431b$2301e560$45e47ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Stability for QRSS Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:44:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve there are a number of factors that you will need to take into account in deciding where to start I would say that a crystal mixer is adequate for 3sec dots QRSS and marginal at 10 secs and not sufficiently stable really for 30 sec dots. Mixer VXOs need the crystals to be driven fairly hard to get a reasonable swing even on 136. My own preference is for a couple of Colpits circuits, rather than the logic inverter version. The latter can drive the crystal so hard they go off at an overtone (yes even 2MHz AT cut crystals). The circuit I used has been 'stolen' from LMR FM radio design of the 70s and intended to start the crystal over a fairly wide temperature range in mobile use. http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/mixervxo.htm There are also some simple design equations for a single ended Class E PA running a few hundred watts....air tested by Finbar EI0CF and Mike GW4HXO but only put on a dummy load here. Actual stability does not matter if you are above the noise level i.e. not more than about 20dB down on audible morse. Sometimes a slightly drifting signal can stand out from the weak Loran sidebands. That is providing it is a constant strength and not popping in and out of the noise with propagation peaks and troughs. For very long distance work where the listener is working blind, you will need to be able to specify you frequency to at least 1Hz and probably slightly better. If you drift you may start in the clear but 'run into' Loran lines. I missed receiving Larry on the day he was first received by Ko because I rejected an interesting looking signal because it was about 1.4Hz off the expected (I think ). Ko wasn't sure of the exact frequency and saved everything and the reception was verified by John G4CNN after some image enhancement. For 30sec dot over a long distance it is advisable to be able to hold 0.1Hz for about 90minutes. Personally I would build a mixer for starters, its easy and gives you a source to enable you to play with the PA and the TX aerial which will be the major part of the projects. Even work a few locals ?? well up to 1500 miles on QRSS3!! From your location I would consider the possibility of a DDS, which could then be programmed to send Jason or other more esoteric modes. Getting the first signals across is the challenge, after that it gets easier (I will get tomatoes thrown at me at the HF Convention this year for that comment !!) I have listened over many months to stations getting stronger and stronger as they gain experience and improve their set up. Others will probably have different viewpoints !! Good luck, I look forward to listening for you when the big day comes. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22366 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 21:42:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 21:42:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 25014 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 21:42:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 21:42:21 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17el2p-0002vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:25:47 +0100 Received: from grunt3.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.254.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17el2o-0002va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:25:46 +0100 Received: from p175-tnt1.chc.ihug.co.nz (athlon) [203.173.227.175] by grunt3.ihug.co.nz with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17ejID-0003PP-00; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:33:33 +1200 Message-ID: <006401c24311$19c39bb0$0101a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> Subject: LF: Re: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:33:43 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve I suggest you take a look at the following URL- it is VERY inexpensive and I believe will do everything that you could possibly want. http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/ Go down a couple of layers on Murray's web page through 'micrprocessor projects' then the 'synthesised 1 watt LF exciter' to get to the relevant info. 73 Dave ZL3FJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve McDonald" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice. I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will be stable enough to handle QRSS work? I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals?? Steve / VE7SL Mayne Island, BC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15334 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 19:42:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 19:42:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10877 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 19:42:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 19:42:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ejGR-0002ZO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:31:43 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ejGQ-0002ZJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:31:42 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.e5.1c435e1c (25308) for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:38:59 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 8/13/02 2:54:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jsm@gulfislands.com writes: << I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals?? >> I'd go for the crystals, Steve. The stability of even relatively inexpensive crystals in the HF range is much better than you can expect from VFOs. Your oscillators will drift by the same percentage amount, not the same absolute frequency amount. Remember those halcyon days of algebra class, and working with the good old associative property? Lets imagine two 2MHz oscillators each maintaining a rather good 50ppm over the temperature range of the room in which they are kept, and if they do track comparably, f1 will have a potential drift of 50ppm of 2MHz and f2 will have a potential drift of 50ppm of 2.136MHz (that is, a few more Hertz of drift than the f1 oscillator)--which, when one takes the difference of f1 and f2, is the same error as 50ppm of (f2-f1). Thus, the output has the same percentage tolerance as the original oscillators. Unless they were unusually well stabilized, VFOs would not be good for more than the shortest QRSS dot times, and probably not at all suited for a JASON transmitter. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8922 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 19:12:03 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 19:12:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 18574 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Aug 2002 19:16:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 19:16:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eimb-0002UU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:00:53 +0100 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eima-0002UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:00:52 +0100 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17834 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 19:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ukfw1.ge.boc.com) (193.131.2.157) by server-12.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 19:08:37 -0000 Received: from z-160-100-160-136.est.ibm.com ([160.100.160.136]) by ukfw1.ge.boc.com; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:08:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from exc_wil04.edwards.boc.com ([162.118.144.226]) by exc_cra03.edwards.boc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id PPDP27PG; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:11:18 +0100 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:08:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:08:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, >I bought "Commercial" brand fluorescents for the whole house and I >didn't notice any huge LF noise increase. They are not any louder on >the natural Radio receiver either. You guys must have a different >ballast scheme or something different than ours. I think this is the new type of small fluorescent bulb assembly that has a std screw-in base. There's a switching power supply in the base that puts out harmonics causing some degree of interference. I haven't found the level to be that objectionable, however. Bill A Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of BOB RIESE Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 1:48 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs I just replaced one of the bulbs in My radio room with a GE lamp looks like a curled up florescent , Screws into a normal lamp socket and doesnt appear to make noise. 20 Watts produce 75 watts of lighting I will know better when the normal background noise quiets down later but for now it looks OK Bob K3DJC On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:16:34 +0100 "tracey.gardner" writes: >I wonder if anybody is aware of the requirements that came in with the >new >Part L of the Building Regulations on April 1st in the UK? >Apparently in new houses or conversions you now have to put a >number of CF fittings (low energy) in place that will only take CF _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. 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For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4914 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 18:54:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 18:54:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 1445 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 18:54:27 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 18:54:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eiUu-0002Rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:42:36 +0100 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eiUs-0002Ra-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:42:35 +0100 Received: from jsm (gi106.imagenisp.com [204.244.17.114]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id QZ49MC4C; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:52:23 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01c242fb$2b68ace0$7211f4cc@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Oscillator Stabilty for QRSS? Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:56:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Perhaps someone who has already 'been there' can offer their advice.
I would like to start building the exciter stages for what will be my 136KHz tx (hopefully we will have access to the band within the year!). The DJ1ZB exciter (modified by DF3LP) is the circuit that I am questioning. It mixes two xtal controlled 4MHz oscillators, 136 KHz apart, to extract the 136KHz signal. Can I build two VFO's, somehwere around 1MHz and set them 136KHz apart, that will  be stable enough to handle QRSS work? I am worried about drift but also thinking that they may be stable enough if kept in the 1 - 2MHz region. As well, they should (if identical) drift by the same amount and thus be self-correcting? Is this a reasonable avenue to pursue or should I just break down and buy a couple of xtals??
 
Steve / VE7SL  Mayne Island, BC
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26757 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 15:18:21 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 15:18:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 28015 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 15:18:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 15:18:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ef7z-00025C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:06:43 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ef7x-000257-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:06:41 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17edNQ-0007cN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:14:32 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17edNK-0006gn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:14:26 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020813153546.00aa3f28@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:13:38 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception In-reply-to: <3D581C9B.33035F8D@usa.net> References: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060006070004010103090703" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060006070004010103090703 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Alberto, LF Group, Thanks for producing the new version of Jason. Last week I recorded some .wav files of G4JNT's beacon signal, with and without clipping (although there will always be some clipping on the biggest noise peaks). I ran an "unclipped" file through Jason 0.95, using the KK7KA decoder, with and without the "Hendrixizer" engaged - the attachment shows only a couple of characters missing with the "Hendrixizer" on, but only garbage when it was switched off - so it does indeed seem to make a useful improvement. I got slightly better results when clipping took place in the IF amplifier - copy was virtually perfect then - so it could be worth experimenting with user adjustable thresholds or dynamic clipping as has been discussed. I still have the .wav file if anybody wants it (about 13Mb of it!). BTW, when watching the decoder in action, "G4JNT" first decoded correctly, then the decoder retrospectively blanked out the "G" - On the whole, I think it would be useful if the decoder prints some character even if it "knows" the character is wrong - perhaps a non- alphanumeric character like a question mark or just a blank. That way, the operator would know how many characters had been missed - although it would mean more garbage on the screen. 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Aug 2002 12:53:25 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 12:53:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 3478 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 12:52:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 12:52:59 -0000 X-SQ: A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eciU-0001oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:32:14 +0100 Received: from server06.mvnet.de ([194.25.108.14] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eciT-0001oM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:32:13 +0100 Received: from gtwf.mvnet.de (lcon-sn02.MVnet.de [194.25.108.83]) by server06.mvnet.de (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7DCe8fp013910 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:40:08 +0200 Received: from falkenuge02.mvnet.de (gtwf-mgw.mvnet.de [192.168.0.3]) by gtwf.mvnet.de (8.12.3/) with SMTP id g7DCerit005395 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:40:53 +0200 Received: from no.name.available by falkenuge02.mvnet.de via smtpd (for [192.168.0.10]) with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 12:39:55 UT Received: from prox ([10.10.0.3]) by mgwl01.mgw.mvnet.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7DCwJX20878 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:58:20 +0200 Received: from 10.254.1.1 by prox (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:24:18 +0200 Received: from [194.1.2.8] by adlerauge-11.mvnet.de via smtpd (for [10.254.1.10]) with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 12:09:37 UT Received: by UMNT02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:11:05 +0200 Message-ID: From: v.wedelstaedt@um.mv-regierung.de To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Anritsu RG-51a Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:11:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: K.Versteeg [mailto:nl9222@wanadoo.nl] Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. August 2002 14:17 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lofexp@yahoogroups.com Betreff: LF: Anritsu RG-51a Group..... I was offered a Receiver "Anritsu RG-51a" but found there's no info or image on the internet. Now before i throw in my last beer money on postage for this 15 kilogram leightweight rig i would like to know something more.. 73 de Ko, NL9222 please search whith google [ RG-51a ] results: Erweiterte Suche Einstellungen Sprach-Tools Suchtipps Suche: Das Web Seiten auf Deutsch Seiten aus Deutschland Web Bilder Groups Verzeichnis Das Web wurde nach rg-51a durchsucht. Resultate 1 - 5 von ungefähr 9. Suchdauer: 0.16 Sekunden. ??????????? ?????? 2001/5/4 ... ??/????, RG-51A/No.R-41604. ??(????), 100kHz?34MHz ?????????????????????FAX ... ssro.ee.uec.ac.jp/lab_tomi/uec/ museum/collection/3-56.html - 2k - Im Archiv - Ähnliche Seiten ??????????? ?????? 2001/5/4 ... ??/????, RG-51A/No.R-41601. ??(????), 100kHz?34MHz ?????????????????????FAX ... ssro.ee.uec.ac.jp/lab_tomi/uec/ museum/collection/3-54.html - 2k - Im Archiv - Ähnliche Seiten [ Weitere Resultate von ssro.ee.uec.ac.jp ] Index to Uncle Theo's Scrapbook- [Diese Seite übersetzen ] ... 6c Hudson, Geo. 24a Huse, John 9b Huset, Canute, (of Minnesota) 18a Hutcherson, BT 14a, 69a Ingersoll, RG 51a Jackson, WA 14a, 25a Jenkins, Cicero, Col. ... users.htcomp.net/bcc/index-theo.htm - 25k - Im Archiv - Ähnliche Seiten [PDF] ! " #$ % &('*)+ ... Dateiformat: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - HTML-Version Page 1. &('*)+ 0 "1 % 2 34 #$ 5 67 % 8 & ... www.icsi.berkeley.edu/ftp/pub/techreports/ 1996/tr-96-030.pdf - Ähnliche Seiten Pictorial History of Ronald Reagan: Photos- [Diese Seite übersetzen ] A Reagan/Bush 84 campaign poster. Next. Home. Galleries. '); } if(document.cookie.indexOf('quebec_suppress') == -1 && navigator.appVersion ... victorian.fortunecity.com/manet/404/rg/51a.htm - 5k - Im Archiv Um Ihnen nur die treffendsten Resultate anzuzeigen, wurden einige Einträge ausgelassen, die den 5 bereits angezeigten Treffern sehr ähnlich sind. Sie können bei Bedarf die Suche unter Einbeziehung der übersprungenen Resultate wiederholen. In den Resultaten suchen Das beste Suchwerkzeug seit Erfindung von Google. Probieren Sie die Google Toolbar aus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ©2002 Google From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12017 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 11:19:56 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 11:19:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10690 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 11:20:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 11:20:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ebPx-0001f1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:09:01 +0100 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ebPw-0001eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:09:00 +0100 Received: from nl9222@wanadoo (p2564.vwr.wanadoo.nl [194.134.218.13]) by smtp2.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 6680620051; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:16:49 +0200 (MEST) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:16:37 +0100 From: "K.Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lofexp@yahoogroups.com Subject: LF: Anritsu RG-51a X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020813111649.6680620051@smtp2.wanadoo.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Group..... I was offered a Receiver "Anritsu RG-51a" but found there's no info or image on the internet. Now before i throw in my last beer money on postage for this 15 kilogram leightweight rig i would like to know something more.. 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18661 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 08:47:24 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 08:47:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22198 invoked by uid 10001); 13 Aug 2002 08:51:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 08:51:48 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eZ0P-0001Mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:34:29 +0100 Received: from siaag2ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.133]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eZ0O-0001Ma-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:34:28 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.14) id EAA22955 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 04:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 04:41:29 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: RE: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200208130441_MC3-1-AE9-E356@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, no problems with low energy light bulbs bought here in Germany, I run two so-called "full spectrum lamps" that are supposed to have an LF oscillator in them somehwere, but no problems with those as well. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) LF-homepage www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8037 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 03:15:12 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 03:15:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 25117 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 03:15:21 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 03:15:21 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eThp-0000l0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:54:57 +0100 Received: from mail6.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.205]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eTho-0000kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:54:56 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d28.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.252] (may be forged)) by mail6.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g7D32kk25784 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:02:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:03:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <20020812.145245.-294699.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I bought "Commercial" brand fluorescents for the whole house and I didn't notice any huge LF noise increase. They are not any louder on the natural Radio receiver either. You guys must have a different ballast scheme or something different than ours. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of BOB RIESE Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 1:48 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs I just replaced one of the bulbs in My radio room with a GE lamp looks like a curled up florescent , Screws into a normal lamp socket and doesnt appear to make noise. 20 Watts produce 75 watts of lighting I will know better when the normal background noise quiets down later but for now it looks OK Bob K3DJC On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:16:34 +0100 "tracey.gardner" writes: >I wonder if anybody is aware of the requirements that came in with the >new >Part L of the Building Regulations on April 1st in the UK? >Apparently in new houses or conversions you now have to put a >number of CF fittings (low energy) in place that will only take CF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27070 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 00:25:03 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 00:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 2165 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2002 00:24:37 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2002 00:24:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eRBe-0000QE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:13:34 +0100 Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eRBd-0000Q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:13:33 +0100 Received: from 209-122-233-96.s1906.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com ([209.122.233.96] helo=eng-laptop) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17ePR4-0001Yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:21:23 -0400 From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:23:33 -0400 Message-ID: <01c2425f$a87a2a20$60e97ad1@eng-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, Initial tests with 0.95 look promising. The Hendrixizer isn't quite as effective as the CoolEdit approach, but is a lot more useful time-wise. It seems to offer most improvement on static-crash type noise. None of the methods can make something out of nothing, though. I've tried! I'm curious about the variations I see when replaying a file multiple times with the same settings. If copy is marginal, it never produces the same results twice. The Jason-format file system is very nice, and quite speedy. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2489 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 20:44:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 20:44:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 11897 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 20:44:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 20:44:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eNgO-0008OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:29:04 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay04.mx.net ([165.212.11.1] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eNgM-0008OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:29:03 +0100 Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 20:36:44 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.66] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 924gHLuIC0435M38; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:34:28 GMT Message-ID: <3D581C9B.33035F8D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:37:47 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception References: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote:
Hi Alberto and group,

Jason V0.95 successfully downloaded and installed, looks fine. Also pleased to see the decimated file logging function at work - I will do some compatibility checks with my own implementation of the *.Jas-file format soon, and also play around with different types of noise blankers and limiters.

Does your 'Hendrixizer' also affect the processing of data from a wave file, or is it only active when the input comes directly from the soundcard's ADC ?

Hi Wolf et al,

   the 'Hendrixizer' is inserted (when activated) also in the signal path coming from a WAV file,
so it can be tested offline. It affects also what is seen in the waterfall, but here it is strongly
counter-attacked by the waterfall AGC, a match with uncertain outcomes...:-)

I am curious to know the results of your tests and of those eventually
performed by others.

I forgot to mention that V0.95 has also the optional 19,200 bps as serial speed.
In the next three days I will be away from home, without Internet access, so don't expect fast
replies should you send me a message.

73  Alberto I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19439 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 19:31:53 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 19:31:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 15131 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 19:31:31 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 19:31:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eMcI-0008ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:46 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eMcH-0008E8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:20:45 +0100 Received: from host217-36-19-243.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.19.243] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17eKrk-00028b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:28:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c24236$7e47d820$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> <012a01c24224$5e5cef80$9c2cfd3e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:28:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have loads of low energy light bulbs all over the house because children ALWAYS leave them on! No problems with reputable makes on 160 or LF. Dave G3YXM. > I wonder if anybody is aware of the requirements that came in with the new > Part L of the Building Regulations on April 1st in the UK? > Apparently in new houses or conversions you now have to put a > number of CF fittings (low energy) in place that will only take CF bulbs - > you can't just fit a CF bulb onto a conventional light fitting. > These CF fittings have the ballast etc built into the base so that you can't > just unscrew the CF bulb and screw in an ordinary one. > > I bought two low energy bulbs some years ago and they turned out to be > horrendous interference generators, I threw them out as soon as I found that > out. Has anybody else has problems with low energy bulbs? > > Tracey > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10042 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 18:59:30 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 18:59:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22892 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 18:59:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 18:59:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eM6f-00083h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:48:05 +0100 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eM6e-00083c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:48:04 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewD2RpkuhdhSoi0hgmK82UbjnhyU5gXaOUw=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G92K5JKK; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:54:23 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:48:28 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs Message-ID: <20020812.145245.-294699.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just replaced one of the bulbs in My radio room with a GE lamp looks like a curled up florescent , Screws into a normal lamp socket and doesnt appear to make noise. 20 Watts produce 75 watts of lighting I will know better when the normal background noise quiets down later but for now it looks OK Bob K3DJC On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:16:34 +0100 "tracey.gardner" writes: >I wonder if anybody is aware of the requirements that came in with the >new >Part L of the Building Regulations on April 1st in the UK? >Apparently in new houses or conversions you now have to put a >number of CF fittings (low energy) in place that will only take CF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18918 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 18:17:53 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 18:17:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27748 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 18:18:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 18:18:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eLSI-0007wJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:06:22 +0100 Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.99]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eLSH-0007wE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:06:21 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.76.20a5d68e (3842) for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <76.20a5d68e.2a8954d1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:13:37 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto and group,

Jason V0.95 successfully downloaded and installed, looks fine. Also pleased to see the decimated file logging function at work - I will do some compatibility checks with my own implementation of the *.Jas-file format soon, and also play around with different types of noise blankers and limiters.

Does your 'Hendrixizer' also affect the processing of data from a wave file, or is it only active when the input comes directly from the soundcard's ADC ?


Thanks and regards,

Wolf DL4YHF.

Now off to catch some falling stars on 144 MHz :o) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8409 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 17:22:39 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 17:22:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 4991 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 17:22:47 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 17:22:47 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eKbZ-0007lX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:11:53 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eKbY-0007lS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:11:52 +0100 Received: from default ([62.253.48.147]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020812171943.GQQG16050.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@default> for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:19:43 +0100 Message-ID: <012a01c24224$5e5cef80$9c2cfd3e@default> From: "tracey.gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> Subject: LF: Low Energy Light Bulbs Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:16:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wonder if anybody is aware of the requirements that came in with the new Part L of the Building Regulations on April 1st in the UK? Apparently in new houses or conversions you now have to put a number of CF fittings (low energy) in place that will only take CF bulbs - you can't just fit a CF bulb onto a conventional light fitting. These CF fittings have the ballast etc built into the base so that you can't just unscrew the CF bulb and screw in an ordinary one. I bought two low energy bulbs some years ago and they turned out to be horrendous interference generators, I threw them out as soon as I found that out. Has anybody else has problems with low energy bulbs? Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28388 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 16:05:19 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 16:05:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 28233 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2002 16:05:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2002 16:05:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eJCf-0007V9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:42:05 +0100 Received: from new-tonge.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.231] helo=mailout.zetnet.co.uk ident=mail) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17eJCe-0007V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:42:04 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17eHS5-0008IF-00 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:49:53 +0100 Received: from a7j7r2 (bts-0771.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.51.3]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id g7CFnp313115 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:49:51 +0100 Message-ID: <003901c24217$cc243080$0333f7c2@a7j7r2> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Throat microphone for the Heyphone Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:49:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Please see below. Can anyone identify the military radio referred to? Regards, John Rabson Editor Cave Radio and Electronics Journal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Hall" > I met someone from the Black Sheep Diggers yesterday at the Ingleton > climbing wall. He was ex-military and was familiar with the Heyphone. He > mentioned that whilst in the army he had used some 349 (or something similar > radio) and they had a flat ear piece and throat mic. He wasn't sure, but > thought this may solve the problem we had with the dive test. Unfortunately > I don't know the guys name but he was on the Dowbergill test apparently. > Sorry its so vague, but existing military kit might give us some clues to > solve the problems encountered. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2857 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 22:27:19 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 22:27:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25592 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 22:27:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 22:27:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e2s3-0004Av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 01:15:43 +0100 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e2s2-0004Aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 01:15:42 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.e6.2c69267d (4362) for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:23:00 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:23:00 EDT Subject: LF: Noise blanking for narrowband modes? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, Jim and LF group, oh I just love those rainy sundays ;-). - It's been interesting to read about the improvements of Jason decoding with hard-limited audio. In times of heavy QRN, I have often observed a significant improvement of weak QRSS signals when connecting a pair of 1N4148 diodes parallel to the PC's line input. My RX has full SSB bandwidth and no AGC. The best performance occured when the frontend attenuator was set such that normal background noise was just below the threshold of the limiter. Driving the system into hard limiting did not seem to help any more, but tended to show blocking and IM, caused by strong in-band carriers and DBF39. Narrowband reception goes along with long FFT integration times, and in a linear system, the effective noise level is given by the total energy of background and burst noise. If for example the QRN covers 10% of the aquisition time with a level of 30 dB above the background, it would look like 100-fold increased Gaussian noise, a desastrous 20 dB SNR loss. If we however clip the QRN at say 6 dB above background, the average noise energy will be increased by only 40% (1.5 dB). And the signal will virtually disappear during 10% of the time (-0.8dB), adding up to only 2.3 dB SNR degradation. But I am wondering, if not a noise-blanking scheme would be more effective than simple limiting. In a software implementation with some buffering, one could even avoid switching clicks by smoothly reducing the gain around each burst (eg. a 10 ms cosine shape), keeping the spectral widening of strong carriers moderate. The user could preset a fraction of blanked time (e.g 10%, dependent on the severeness of the QRN), and the SW could then automatically control the threshold to approach that. Going one step further, we could try to give an optimal estimate of a signal in the presence of a time-variing noise level. In analogy to a Wiener filter, the noise contribution of each sample (ie. 10 ms block) to the FFT input would then have to be inversly proportional to its SNR. If the noise level went up temporarily by 3 dB, we should reduce the gain by 6 dB. For high noise peaks, this will of course result in almost complete blanking. One nice feature of the scheme is that we don't have to worry about a threshold, all we have to do is keep track of the wideband power from the RX (assuming that this is noise and our weak signal is below that), and dynamically control the gain. 73 es gn Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19020 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 20:49:06 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:49:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 25852 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 20:48:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:48:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e1J1-0003UB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:35:27 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net ([165.212.11.111] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e1J0-0003U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:35:26 +0100 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:43:15 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.72] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 576gHkurX0498M31; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:43:23 GMT Message-ID: <3D56CC9F.9200CE91@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:44:15 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception References: <01c24142$3ac60c60$0eb63bd0@eng-laptop> <3D56A231.4F1AA5A@usa.net> <003c01c24174$2174a6e0$8c2865d5@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > > I implemented an 'Hendrixizer' > > Thanks Alberto, > > I love the word! I am looking forward to see it in radio DSP > literature together with Weaver, Hilbert, Hamming, Costas & Co. > > :-) > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM > > (still laughing!) Johan, I do not claim the full paternity of that word ! The main culprit has been Jim Moritz, talking of 'Jimi Hendrix' sound....:-} 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18125 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 20:26:21 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:26:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26171 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Aug 2002 20:31:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:31:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e0xF-0003Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:12:57 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay04.mx.net ([165.212.11.1] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e0xD-0003Kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:12:55 +0100 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:20:40 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.72] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 430gHkuuY0338M28; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:20:50 GMT Message-ID: <3D56C757.C36C3622@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:21:43 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> <3D5638CF.29542F41@usa.net> <3D5674D7.9C4F8797@virgin.net> <17dwzH-28VN9kC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > Stewart Bryant schrieb: > > > > There is something else strange about the setup, because I could > > only correctly save the file (and open it with excel) when I used > > IE to get it. Using Netscape did not save it as a recognisable > > excel file. > > > > Stewart G3YSX > > Hi Stewart, > > that`s it. I did the same (using Netscape). now with IE it saved well. > > regards > > Uwe/dj8wx Stewart and Uwe, I have just tried the same and, sure enough, there are problems with Netscape that disappear with IE.... very strange... maybe it depends on the interpretation of the MIME type by the browser. However I am not in control of the Web server that hosts the weaksignals site, so cannot change on that server the MIME type assigned to files with xls as extension. Maybe I will zip it.... with zip files there are not problems for sure... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24729 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 20:24:24 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:24:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 12246 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 20:24:33 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 20:24:33 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e0tx-0003K9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:09:33 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17e0tw-0003K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 23:09:32 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.40.140]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020811201723.ZUPZ17723.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:17:23 +0200 Message-ID: <003c01c24174$2174a6e0$8c2865d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01c24142$3ac60c60$0eb63bd0@eng-laptop> <3D56A231.4F1AA5A@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:17:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I implemented an 'Hendrixizer' Thanks Alberto, I love the word! I am looking forward to see it in radio DSP literature together with Weaver, Hilbert, Hamming, Costas & Co. :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM (still laughing!) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9010 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 18:03:02 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 18:03:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 19860 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 18:02:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 18:02:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dykL-0002sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:51:29 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dykK-0002si-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:51:28 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17dwzU-0003DE-0A; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:59:00 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.155.252.233]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17dwzH-28VN9kC; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:58:47 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> <3D5638CF.29542F41@usa.net> <3D5674D7.9C4F8797@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:58:47 +0200 Message-ID: <17dwzH-28VN9kC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stewart Bryant schrieb: > > There is something else strange about the setup, because I could > only correctly save the file (and open it with excel) when I used > IE to get it. Using Netscape did not save it as a recognisable > excel file. > > Stewart G3YSX Hi Stewart, that`s it. I did the same (using Netscape). now with IE it saved well. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3635 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 17:45:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 17:45:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 16640 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Aug 2002 17:50:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 17:50:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dyTt-0002pR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:34:29 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay04.mx.net ([165.212.11.1] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dyTs-0002pM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:34:28 +0100 Received: from uadvg129.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.129) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 17:42:14 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.66] by uadvg129.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 015gHkRQw0075M29; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:42:23 GMT Message-ID: <3D56A231.4F1AA5A@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:43:13 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Limiter in Jason reception References: <01c24142$3ac60c60$0eb63bd0@eng-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What else can one do in a rainy Sunday afternoon ? Implementing new functions in Jason, of course....:-) Thanks David, John and others for your comments and tests. I prepared a test version of Jason, which then, if the reports will be positive, will be released as V0.95. I implemented an 'Hendrixizer' (selectable either via the Options menu or with Ctrl-H) in the following way, which maybe is different from what you did with Cool Edit, John. First I normalize the input samples to the range -1 ... 1 Then I compute the 50th root of each sample (preserving the sign). Then I denormalize it again. This, if visualized, corresponds to a very steep curve that raises abruptly at the very beginning of the scale, then slopes gently to horizontal. Quantitatively, a signal of -60 dB from full scale is brought to -1.2 dB, -20 dB to -0.4 dB, etc. up to 0 dB which of course is mapped to itself. I am not quite sure it has a positive result on the reception, but then, I performed only minimal testing. I would be very grateful if someone could test it in real marginal reception conditions, maybe comparing it with hard-limiting, done either in hardware or with Cool Edit, thanks. In addition, this pre-0.95 implements saving to a WAV file, and saving/playback to/from a so-called JAS file, which contains the I/Q samples after the decimator. Both savings are activated by a couple of new buttons on the panel, which toggle between red and black, indicating whether saving is active or not. Reports are greatly welcome, thanks You can download this test version from here : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/jaspak_v095_test.exe 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16125 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 16:31:35 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 16:31:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 13440 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 16:31:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 16:31:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dxK7-0002cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:20:19 +0100 Received: from mailbox-5.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dxK6-0002cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:20:19 +0100 Received: from q9p9p6 (CPE014100002698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [24.43.57.119]) by mailbox-5.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B5C3515520 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:27:38 +0200 (DST) Message-ID: <001f01c24154$033776a0$77392b18@q9p9p6> From: "Vincent Ferme" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> <3D5638CF.29542F41@usa.net> <3D5674D7.9C4F8797@virgin.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:25:07 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit It works fine with OpenOffice Calc. 73 de Vince, VA3VF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16586 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:34:59 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:34:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15924 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:34:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:34:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvVl-0002Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:24:13 +0100 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([144.254.98.48] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvVk-0002Hk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:24:13 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp19.cisco.com [10.50.0.18]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23256 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:32:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3D567559.2B2EEF62@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:31:53 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 5260, 5280, 5290, 5400 and 5405 kHz. References: Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Please see

http://www.rsgb.org/licensing/fivemegs/fivemegs.htm

73, Stewart G3YSX

W3HXF@aol.com wrote:

What is the non-LF e-mail address for RSGB?

Are any tests scheduled with any USA station on 5260, 5280, 5290, 5400 or 5405 kHz?
If not, Please send the UK regulations for 5 MHz.
Re:
"Frequencies to become available in Great Brittan are 5260,5280, 5290, 5400 and 5405 kHz."
I am asking the ARRL: can I ever transmit early for a test?
73, Bill, W3HXF@arrl.net

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20550 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:34:09 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:34:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15791 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:34:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:34:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvUb-0002Hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:23:01 +0100 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([144.254.98.48] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvUa-0002HW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:23:00 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp19.cisco.com [10.50.0.18]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA23240; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:29:53 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3D5674D7.9C4F8797@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 15:29:44 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> <3D5638CF.29542F41@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is something else strange about the setup, because I could only correctly save the file (and open it with excel) when I used IE to get it. Using Netscape did not save it as a recognisable excel file. Stewart G3YSX Alberto di Bene wrote: > I have been alerted that the toroids spreadsheet doesn't > work with version of Excel older than Excel 2000. > > I have saved it again with a backward compatibility option, > with this other name : > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/tcas97.xls > > I don't have an older version of Excel to test it, > so please, if you had problems with the 2000 version, > download it and see if this one works. Thanks. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > _______________________________________________ > >From the Lowfer mailing list > Send messages to: Lowfer@mailman.qth.net > To sub/unsub visit: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28872 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:25:03 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:25:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27296 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Aug 2002 14:29:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:29:30 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvLZ-0002DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:13:41 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvLY-0002DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:13:40 +0100 Received: from W3HXF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.c1.2514abac (18559) for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:21:23 -0400 (EDT) From: W3HXF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:21:23 EDT Subject: LF: 5260, 5280, 5290, 5400 and 5405 kHz. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10516 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit What is the non-LF e-mail address for RSGB?

Are any tests scheduled with any USA station on 5260, 5280, 5290, 5400 or 5405 kHz?
If not, Please send the UK regulations for 5 MHz.
Re:
"Frequencies to become available in Great Brittan are 5260,5280, 5290, 5400 and 5405 kHz."
I am asking the ARRL: can I ever transmit early for a test?
73, Bill, W3HXF@arrl.net
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25484 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:21:16 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:21:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 15356 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 14:21:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 14:21:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvIF-0002D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:10:15 +0100 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dvIE-0002Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:10:14 +0100 Received: from 208-59-182-14.s1284.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com ([208.59.182.14] helo=eng-laptop) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17dtXf-0001YY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:18:04 -0400 From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Limiter in Jason reception Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:20:22 -0400 Message-ID: <01c24142$3ac60c60$0eb63bd0@eng-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, I am at a "remote" location with a shaky Internet connection, but here are some results on my experiments with an audio limiter ahead of Jason. Here is a recording of my Lowfer beacon at 200 km during the daytime, with good copy: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/TAG-01.jpg Here is a recording taken 1 hour after local sunset with lots of static and a weaker signal: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/TAG-02.jpg Here is the same post sunset recording with the CoolEdit brick wall limiter followed by 20 dB of attenuation to get the level back down. The limiter was made by raising all inputs greater than -90 dB up to 0 dB level. Nasty. But effective! http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/TAG-03.jpg As you can see, some improvement results. I plan to do more playing over the next few days. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3768 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 10:26:39 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:26:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 19509 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 10:26:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:26:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17drSn-0001XM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:04:53 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay01.mx.net ([165.212.11.110] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17drSm-0001XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:04:53 +0100 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:12:42 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.76] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 166gHkkmv0367M31; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:12:48 GMT Message-ID: <3D5638CF.29542F41@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:13:35 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been alerted that the toroids spreadsheet doesn't work with version of Excel older than Excel 2000. I have saved it again with a backward compatibility option, with this other name : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/tcas97.xls I don't have an older version of Excel to test it, so please, if you had problems with the 2000 version, download it and see if this one works. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15327 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 10:16:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:16:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13915 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 10:15:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:15:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17drHL-0001Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:53:03 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net ([165.212.11.111] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17drHK-0001Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:53:02 +0100 Received: from cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.138) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 10:00:46 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.71] by cmsapps02.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 681gHkJ7Z0051M38; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:58:25 GMT Message-ID: <3D563604.BF5139FF@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:01:40 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> <001f01c240d0$2ff5ac40$5e2a58db@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > Alberto, > > I think you'll find that each Amidon formula is "different" by scaling > factor only. Inductance is still "turns squared" and scaling coefficients > and turn reference numbers are selected to arrive at convenient values in > millihenries for ferrites (generally high Al values) and microhenries for > powdered iron (generally low Al values). Bob, I do not agree with you, sorry... from an Amidon document, in the chapter regarding iron-powder toroids : N = 100 * SQRT(uH / AL) where : N = number of turns uH = wanted inductance in uH AL = uH for 100 turns Where in the chapter of ferrite toroids the formula is given as : N = 1000 * SQRT(mH / AL) where : N = number of turns mH = wanted inductance in mH AL = mH for 1000 turns Mathematically speaking, they are not equivalent. And also in practice, they aren't too. I know, as I tried to compute the number of turns needed on a T37-2 core to obtain 2.5 uH of inductance. That core has a tabulated AL of 40. Applying the first formula, the result is : 100 * SQRT(2.5 / 40) = 25 turns Applying the second one, the result is : 1000 * SQRT(0.0025 / 40) = 7.9 turns I wound 8 turns on such core, and measured 0.28 uH, in good accord with the theoretical value (computed with the first formula) of 0.26 uH. The original spreadsheet by WA1ION used the second formula for both kind of cores, that's why I spotted the error, when trying to wind my 2.5 uH inductor, and ending up with a 0.28 uH one.... 73 Alberto I2PHD P.S. Yes Alan and others, the spreadsheet is done with Excel 2000, sorry... I will check if there the possibility to convert it to a previous format. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17861 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 03:03:21 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 03:03:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 2729 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 03:03:29 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 03:03:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dkiN-0000SQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 05:52:31 +0100 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.202]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dkiL-0000SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 05:52:30 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d4.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.228] (may be forged)) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g7B30JE85261 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:00:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Alberto's Excel Toroid calc Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:00:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000101c240c8$bd0d5680$b416073e@main> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It downloaded and worked perfect in my Excel 2000. Thanks for the sheet, it is very useful for me. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html 185.3026kc QRSS & CW ID is "WE" -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Alan Melia Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 5:39 PM To: LF-Group Subject: LF: Alberto's Excel Toroid calc Hi Albero, I spoke too soon, maybe I misunderstood Uwe, the file downloaded ok, but when I tried to load it into my Ver. 7, it told me it was not an Excel format file. Maybe you are up to version 23 (Hi) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8391 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2002 00:42:32 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 00:42:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 15231 invoked by uid 10001); 11 Aug 2002 00:46:58 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2002 00:46:58 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17diVt-00001p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:31:29 +0100 Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.146]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17diVr-00001k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 03:31:27 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020811003842.OROX2461.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:38:42 +1200 Received: from xtr743187 ([219.88.42.94]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020811003842.CNDE25014.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:38:42 +1200 Message-ID: <001f01c240d0$2ff5ac40$5e2a58db@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: An Excel sheet to play with toroids Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:42:47 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, An excerpt from your message: > In my opinion it contained an error, as it used the same > formula involving AL, both with ferrite toroids and > iron-powder toroids. Amidon gives two different > formulas for the two cases. I corrected it, and added > a couple of other, maybe useful, functions. I think you'll find that each Amidon formula is "different" by scaling factor only. Inductance is still "turns squared" and scaling coefficients and turn reference numbers are selected to arrive at convenient values in millihenries for ferrites (generally high Al values) and microhenries for powdered iron (generally low Al values). 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27330 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 23:53:53 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 23:53:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1097 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Aug 2002 23:58:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 23:58:49 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dhl5-0008QC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 02:43:07 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dhl4-0008Q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 02:43:06 +0100 Received: from host62-7-22-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.22.180] helo=main) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17dg0X-0004SY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:50:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000101c240c8$bd0d5680$b416073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Alberto's Excel Toroid calc Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:38:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Albero, I spoke too soon, maybe I misunderstood Uwe, the file downloaded ok, but when I tried to load it into my Ver. 7, it told me it was not an Excel format file. Maybe you are up to version 23 (Hi) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8305 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 22:50:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 22:50:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 29738 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 22:50:09 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 22:50:09 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dgb7-0008EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:28:45 +0100 Received: from ool-18bfaa5c.dyn.optonline.net ([24.191.170.92] helo=block.iamanidiot.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dgb6-0008ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:28:44 +0100 Received: from block.callsign.net (davidwillmore@localhost) by block.iamanidiot.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7AMaFb18921 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:36:15 -0500 Message-ID: <200208102236.g7AMaFb18921@block.iamanidiot.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:26:02 BST." <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:36:15 -0400 From: "David Willmore" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > de M0BMU > I received G4JNT's Jason beacon again last night, and messed around further > with the gain levels, etc. I found the best results were achieved with the > AGC set to manual, the RF gain cranked up to maximum, and the audio gain > set so that the sound card ADC had a fairly high input level applied, but > not enough to overload it. Under these conditions, the IF signal was quite > severely clipped all the time (see the attachment). The audio sounded very > distorted of course. Backing off the RF gain so that little or no clipping > occurred made the signal unreadable by Jason, and almost invisible on a > waterfall display - whilst with the "Jimi Hendrix style" gain settings, the > waterfall was 'O', and Jason could copy perfectly - the difference was very > striking and counter-intuitive. > > I'm now fairly sure it is not the sound card ADC that is involved in the > effect, but rather that clipping the signal under QRN conditions improves > the SNR after further processing. This is the opposite to the optimum > setting required for receiving QRSS when there are multiple signals in the > passband; in this case the gain must be reduced until no clipping occurs, > otherwise "blocking" affects the weaker signals. > > I will look out for SM6LKM's 7MHz beacon on the new frequency later today > when I get a chance. Let me see if I can say something meaningful. If you clip in the IF, the noise energy of the clipping process is spread over a larger set of frequencies, thus the energy/Hz is lower than if you clip at audio. Since Jason is a non-linear mode, it will benefit from a 'limiting amplification' or crank up the gain and filter out the out of band distortion products--this works better at RF than at baseband as the sums and differences are out of the passband. This is basically what you're doing by cranking up the RF gain. Cranking up the gain at baseband will leave the distortion products in band--where they will interfere with the desired signal. You could implement something like this at baseband, but you'd want to very narrowly filter the input *first*, then amp/clip, then filter again. Well, the last filter may be implemented by the Jason receiver program, of course. The 'anything outside of the yellow lines is ignored' thingey. But, I could be wrong. Cheers, David N0YMV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19754 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 22:22:18 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 22:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 11899 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 22:22:26 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 22:22:26 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dgKa-0008BT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:11:40 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dgKZ-0008BO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:11:39 +0100 Received: from host62-7-14-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.14.44] helo=main) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17dea2-0003a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:19:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000101c240bb$f5237980$2c0e073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Excel sheet....and more !! Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:19:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, well Uwe the sheet downloaded on the click for me. It seems to be Excel time, so I have added to the fun for those of you who try to keep venerable old test equipment functioning. I have built a spreadsheet from various souces which cross-references British Government Common Valve Developement Committee numbers (yep that's what the CV stands for ) to commercail equivalents. I also have a old Pilots Logbook (!!) with lists of RAF, and Navy numbers as well....but that is a lot more typing. http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/programs.htm (I hope it downloads after all this !!....its is a zipped file of about 85kB) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10862 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 20:47:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 20:47:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 29253 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Aug 2002 20:52:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 20:52:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dep4-0007sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:35:02 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dep3-0007sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:35:01 +0100 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17dd4U-0001cd-09; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:42:50 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.224.53.57]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17dd4Q-0K3C6qC; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:42:46 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: An Excel sheet to play with toroids X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:42:46 +0200 Message-ID: <17dd4Q-0K3C6qC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene schrieb: > Today I found in my archived files an Excel sheet that > computes the number of turns for a given inductance > on a given core, and viceversa, made by WA1ION. > > In my opinion it contained an error, as it used the same > formula involving AL, both with ferrite toroids and > iron-powder toroids. Amidon gives two different > formulas for the two cases. I corrected it, and added > a couple of other, maybe useful, functions. > > If you want to check it, you can download it from here : > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/tcas.xls > > Please report any errors, thanks > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > Hi Alberto, sri, but download is not possi. seems the questionmark in the line is a hint. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7232 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 19:32:13 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 19:32:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 3029 invoked by uid 10001); 10 Aug 2002 19:37:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 19:37:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ddeK-0007hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:19:52 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay01.mx.net ([165.212.11.110] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ddeJ-0007hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:19:51 +0100 Received: from cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.136) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 19:27:35 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.76] by cmsapps01.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 489gHJTbI0426M36; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:27:35 GMT Message-ID: <3D55695C.4999366C@usa.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 21:28:28 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lf@amrad.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: An Excel sheet to play with toroids References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Today I found in my archived files an Excel sheet that computes the number of turns for a given inductance on a given core, and viceversa, made by WA1ION. In my opinion it contained an error, as it used the same formula involving AL, both with ferrite toroids and iron-powder toroids. Amidon gives two different formulas for the two cases. I corrected it, and added a couple of other, maybe useful, functions. If you want to check it, you can download it from here : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/tcas.xls Please report any errors, thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7343 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 14:07:19 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 14:07:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 29711 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 14:07:32 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 14:07:31 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dYS1-0006qA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:46:49 +0100 Received: from mail02.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.84] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dYRz-0006q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:46:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 20933 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2002 13:54:03 -0000 Received: from 200-201-142-227.ras01.spo.dial-up.ifxnetworks.com.br (HELO local) (200.201.142.227) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 10 Aug 2002 13:54:03 -0000 Message-ID: <005001c24075$634ae840$788ec9c8@local> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Ndblist@beaconworld.co.uk, lowfer@mailman.qth.net References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: LF Off-topic PY2PLL Jason Tests Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:53:59 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... I´ll be running Jason at 21089.800 from 14:00UTC to 20:00 UTC. Text is PY2PLL GG66RF Measured Power: 12.5mW (Elektrisk Bureau EM100 exciter - 400Khz to 30MHz, 50mW + 6dB in-line attenuator) Antena: MFJ 1 meter diameter loop (-1.5dB over dipole) >From 20:00 UTC to 03:00UTC I´ll switch to 10149.800, the same antenna (-5dB over dipole on 30 meter) Both frequencies are ok for this kind of tests according to our local regulations (tty like, any mode for automated printing). Freq accuracy will be +/- 1Hz, after adjustments. The exciter have an oven for xtal temp stabilization. It´s turned on for 12 hours now. At the same time I´ll be listening to 7000.013 with another setup (SM6LKM tests). 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27997 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 19:51:54 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 19:51:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 13723 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 19:56:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 19:56:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dHUu-0004IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 22:40:40 +0100 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dHUt-0004IE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 22:40:39 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.38.34]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020809194828.WAHE26352.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:48:28 +0200 Message-ID: <003401c23fdd$c3067da0$222665d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: SM6LKM Jason beacon affected by multipath Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:47:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good evening Wolf & All > The 7 MHz signal suffers from multipath, every Jason symbol (tone) now > consists of two peaks separated 50..150 mHz (m=milli, M=Mega, the European > way). > The decoder doesn't like it, but on a waterfall it looks interesting (like > ancient symbols..). This is interesting. 100 mHz doppler shift at 7 MHz corresponds to a speed of 3e8*0.1/7e6 = 4.3 m/s (neglecting relativistic stuff :-). This is the speed at which the two (assuming two) path lengths differ. At this short distance it is almost NVIS propagation. Could it be two reflecting layers that move vertically with respect to each other when the sun sets? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23830 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 19:18:53 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 19:18:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 13079 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 19:18:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 19:18:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dGyX-0004Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 22:07:13 +0100 Received: from durendal.skynet.be ([195.238.3.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dGyW-0004Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 22:07:12 +0100 Received: from fa298072SKYNET (38.5-200-80.adsl.skynet.be [80.200.5.38]) by durendal.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.20) with SMTP id g79JElf22526 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:14:47 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <000801c23fd9$28843000$2605c850@fa298072SKYNET> From: "SOMMEREYNS RUDDY" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: vlf antenna literature Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:15:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Disposition-Notification-To: "SOMMEREYNS RUDDY" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
For those interested in vlf antenna literature, I found this list..
 
Maybe it has been already shown here on the reflector.....
 
Best regards,
 
Ruddy
 
ON6UX
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17219 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 18:26:29 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 18:26:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 7841 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 18:26:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 18:26:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dGB5-00043E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:16:07 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dGB3-000436-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:16:05 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.41.54]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020809182354.UKXX3168.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 20:23:54 +0200 Message-ID: <003201c23fd1$f2588f00$362965d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3D53C21E.83A9554@usa.net> Subject: LF: SM6LKM beacon QRT tonight Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 20:22:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi My Jason beacon is now down because of a thunderstorm. More thunder is expected tonight so the beacon will remain QRT until tomorrow. Alberto I2PHD wrote: > Re Johan beacon, nothing received so far, sorry (but couldn't you turn your > dipole E-W ? :-) Yes, I can turn it but not now. I am busy with other duties. Perhaps on Sunday. Wolf DL4YHF wrote: > no idea what power you are running at the moment but it must be QRO.. Hi hi... Yes, it was QRO by Hifer standards, 15 mW. > (SM6LKM on 7000013 Hz, copied on Saturday, 14:00 UTC, hr JO42FD) > The first quarter of the screenshot copied with the native decoder, the rest with the KK7KA decoder, last quarter with AGC turned off > and RF+AF gain turned on, soundcard completely overloaded (so all kinds of clipping involved). Interesting. The "Jimi Hendrix method" seem to be gaining popularity :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9659 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 18:22:49 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 18:22:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17957 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 18:27:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 18:27:43 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dG6g-00042b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:11:34 +0100 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dG6f-00042W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:11:33 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.e5.1c11f374 (4402) for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:18:47 EDT Subject: LF: SM6LKM Jason beacon affected by multipath To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090606060604060807060209" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090606060604060807060209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all,

Copy on Johan's beacon gets worse though the noise (QRN) gets weaker.

Shortwave is so much different than LF.. see attached image.

The 7 MHz signal suffers from multipath, every Jason symbol (tone) now consists of two peaks separated 50..150 mHz (m=milli, M=Mega, the European way).
The decoder doesn't like it, but on a waterfall it looks interesting (like ancient symbols..).

Thanks for the "off-band" tests,
73 Wolf DL4YHF.

To Johan: Sent this mail directly to you just in case the attachment didn't make it through the reflector. --------------090606060604060807060209 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Jas_sm6lkm_40m.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Jas_sm6lkm_40m.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDABQODxIPDRQSEBIXFRQYHjIhHhwcHj0sLiQySUBM S0dARkVQWnNiUFVtVkVGZIhlbXd7gYKBTmCNl4x9lnN+gXz/2wBDARUXFx4aHjshITt8U0ZT fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHx8fHz/wAAR CAFrASUDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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SXd/YypIBqFhco5XNvcTJswPQgEjnB53dO3UXRptoG3CLn/eP+NTrDGoAC4x70AYNtLZwTw+ Zq9nKiOsrSNON7sIvKwRnv8Aezn2x3q/c6pZsu+31a0WRVbajTJsdscbu+AfQitHYvpSlQRz QBzUkltNCQ1/pySyRywyN9rDlg4XMhOBlhtxtwBjABAGK1ptU06SIomrW8THo6TRkj88j9Kv bF9KNi5zigDEu7mxmuJpU1Kx+ZYCgM68tHIz4PoDkDPPfirFjqGn29tsk1KzLs7yNtnXALMW wOecZxnv7VoywRzqFkXcAysOSOVII/UCnFFJyRzQBk6tqunyaTepHf2rO0EgVVmUknaeBzWi h+Q1LsXGMUBFA4HWgBsRzminqoXoKKAP/9k= --------------090606060604060807060209-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25783 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 17:36:47 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 17:36:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28631 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 17:36:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 17:36:27 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dFMP-0003tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 20:23:45 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dFMO-0003to-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 20:23:44 +0100 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (158.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.158]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g79HVYj8018712 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 18:31:35 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020809183021.00a04350@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:33:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Beacon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010303020509050103030908" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010303020509050103030908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Johan, Sent you a second reception report with attached Jason pic but didn't get through the reflector. Forgot it won't allow anything except small attachments! Received four or five perfect messages around 0900 GMT, then patchy to 1000, afterwards faded out with only occasional letters. Walter G3JKV. --------------010303020509050103030908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT09947.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT09947.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02 --------------010303020509050103030908-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20535 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 16:54:02 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 16:54:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11274 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 16:59:00 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 16:59:00 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dEfV-0003lH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 19:39:25 +0100 Received: from darius.concentric.net ([207.155.198.79]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dEfT-0003lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 19:39:24 +0100 Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id g79Gl7f13863 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id MAA07144; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003801c23fc5$be9a84e0$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3D53C21E.83A9554@usa.net> <001501c23faf$dbdcc2e0$09dc9384@jka> <3D53E33C.A829ED40@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:56:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, > I have Jason V0.95 ready for release, but now maybe I could try to implement > into it that brick-wall limiter you mention John. Do you have any idea why the > Cool Edit processing didn't work with other files ? Not really. Of course, you have to keep reminding yourself that only a narrow slice of spectrum is really important in these applications. One of the things that made me nervous was that hard clipping might throw garbage from non-essential areas into that window. Since I run a 250 Hz filter on the receiver, with an 800 Hz beat note, harmonic generation shouldn't be an issue, though. One of my little mysteries with WOLF is that I've had to be gentle with my use of the "-b" blanking option. Other guys have posted great results with it really cranked in. This may all tie into this issue of how hard the sound card is being driven -- not sure. In any case, I will be in a position to play with my own Jason signal and Cool Edit over the weekend. I will certainly report any interesting results (that seem to work on more than one file!). John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21006 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 16:17:37 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 16:17:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11912 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 16:22:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 16:22:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dE9h-0003gB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 19:06:33 +0100 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dE9g-0003g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 19:06:33 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.5a.fafe413 (3932) for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:13:49 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <5a.fafe413.2a85443d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:13:49 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto,

I vote for the implementation of the optional limiter in Jason, even if it will delay the release of V0.95 a couple of days.
If this really leads to a more immune system, perfetto - otherwise, to anti-parallel germanium or low-barrier Schottky diodes across the soundcards input may also do the job for a start.

Thanks for the effort,

Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19400 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 15:55:43 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 15:55:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 25601 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 16:00:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 16:00:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dDfX-0003aO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:35:23 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net ([165.212.11.111] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dDfW-0003aJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:35:23 +0100 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 15:43:12 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.73] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 212gHiPrs0133M31; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:43:19 GMT Message-ID: <3D53E33C.A829ED40@usa.net> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:43:56 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3D53C21E.83A9554@usa.net> <001501c23faf$dbdcc2e0$09dc9384@jka> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews wrote: > This brings to mind some WOLF recordings I made of M0BMU in March, 2001. The > noise was dominated by static crashes and impulses, rather than the usual > neighborhood buzz. The decoding process was greatly helped by the "-b" > blanker option in WOLF. Then I processed the file through a brick-wall > limiter in Cool Edit. That worked even better. As I recall, the limiter was > created by yanking up the limiter curve so that everything above -60 dB was > brought up to 0 dB. Nasty sounding, I can assure you. > [...] I have Jason V0.95 ready for release, but now maybe I could try to implement into it that brick-wall limiter you mention John. Do you have any idea why the Cool Edit processing didn't work with other files ? What do you all think ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2871 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:33:32 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:33:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 9785 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:33:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCWe-0003PO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:22:08 +0100 Received: from mta4-svc.business.ntl.com ([62.253.164.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCWd-0003PI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:22:07 +0100 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.18]) by mta4-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020809142957.LJHG24734.mta4-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 15:29:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c23faa$f3b65c00$12e4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: First EA Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:44:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I do not think it matters who was first, its hardly new technology on LF. Radio amateurs are only retracing the steps of those commercial operators that have gone before.
A good solid creditable  qso is more important, whatever the packing order. Some so called firsts in the past were a bit hit and miss on LF, like calling back tomorrow or next week to complete the report, plus the fact the QSO's were prearranged, so it was known who was on exactly what frequency regardless of hearing or seeing the callsign.
QSO rules on LF for some are invented as the qso takes place, and nothing like the established procedures on all the other amateur bands.
Operating from sites using commercial radio masts is hardly amateur radio, and certainly no achievement, or awards should be claimed by those participating. This type of operation only proves what we all already know that the bigger and higher the antenna mast on LF the greater the radio signal emitted.
No doubt the claim game will go on !!!!! 
73 de G3KEV
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6046 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:13:38 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:13:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 1199 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:13:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:13:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCDo-0003Ji-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:02:40 +0100 Received: from darius.concentric.net ([207.155.198.79]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCDm-0003Jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:02:39 +0100 Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.198.71]) by darius.concentric.net [Concentric SMTP Routing 1.0] id g79EAQf21172 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:10:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jka ([208.37.242.34]) by newman.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id KAA03710; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c23faf$dbdcc2e0$09dc9384@jka> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3D53C21E.83A9554@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:20:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This brings to mind some WOLF recordings I made of M0BMU in March, 2001. The noise was dominated by static crashes and impulses, rather than the usual neighborhood buzz. The decoding process was greatly helped by the "-b" blanker option in WOLF. Then I processed the file through a brick-wall limiter in Cool Edit. That worked even better. As I recall, the limiter was created by yanking up the limiter curve so that everything above -60 dB was brought up to 0 dB. Nasty sounding, I can assure you. I announced my triumph to Stewart, and then found to my dismay that the technique didn't work well on any other files than those recorded that night. Anyway, I will be running my Lowfer beacon in Jason mode all next week, and will be listening from 200 km away. That should provide a decent test platform. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5966 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:12:23 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:12:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29341 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 14:11:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 14:11:40 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCBa-0003IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:00:22 +0100 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dCBZ-0003IF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:00:21 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.c6.fcc767e (4394) for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:08:09 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:08:09 EDT Subject: LF: SM6LKM Jason test on 40 m To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060008060408040801040507" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060008060408040801040507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Johan,

no idea what power you are running at the moment but it must be QRO..


(SM6LKM on 7000013 Hz, copied on Saturday, 14:00 UTC, hr JO42FD)
The first quarter of the screenshot copied with the native decoder, the rest with the KK7KA decoder, last quarter with AGC turned off and RF+AF gain turned on, soundcard completely overloaded (so all kinds of clipping involved).

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF
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Aug 2002 13:24:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 27537 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 13:24:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 13:24:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dBSg-0003BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:13:58 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay03.mx.net ([165.212.11.112] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dBSe-0003B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:13:57 +0100 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 13:21:44 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.72] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 533gHiNVY0414M28; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:21:50 GMT Message-ID: <3D53C21E.83A9554@usa.net> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:22:38 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > [...] > Under these conditions, the IF signal was quite > severely clipped all the time (see the attachment). The audio sounded very > distorted of course. Backing off the RF gain so that little or no clipping > occurred made the signal unreadable by Jason, and almost invisible on a > waterfall display - whilst with the "Jimi Hendrix style" gain settings, the > waterfall was 'O', and Jason could copy perfectly - the difference was very > striking and counter-intuitive. > [...] > This is the opposite to the optimum > setting required for receiving QRSS when there are multiple signals in the > passband; in this case the gain must be reduced until no clipping occurs, > otherwise "blocking" affects the weaker signals. Hmmm, maybe the explanation is that with QRSS the ultimate decoder is the combination eye-brain, which is affected by the amount of visual noise in the waterfall. And, in addition, when computing the waterfall brightness from the magnitude of the received signals, the scale factor of the transformation must be adapted to the mean magnitude, and strong signals tend to dominate, masking weaker ones. With Jason, everything that falls outside the decoding window (the two yellow lines) is plainly discarded. So, if the Jimi Hendrix style of reception has the effect of bringing up the signal, even if this causes severe clipping of noise bursts, the bottom line should be on the positive side. I am fairly sure that the sigma-delta ADCs of the sound cards work in saturation mode and do not wrap around, so increasing the input level is beneficial (up to a point, of course). And, from a software-decoding point of view, the SNR which plays the definitive role is that computed in a bandwidth equal to the FFT bin size. Re Johan beacon, nothing received so far, sorry (but couldn't you turn your dipole E-W ? :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2919 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 12:57:36 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 12:57:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24241 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 12:55:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 12:55:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dAzm-00035H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:44:06 +0100 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dAzl-00035C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:44:05 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.4d.224d2fec (4238) for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <4d.224d2fec.2a8514c9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:51:21 EDT Subject: LF: Re: SM6LKM Jason beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Jim, Johan and group,

Also tried to copy Johan's beacon with quite little succes. A lot of harmonics from AC mains around 7.000 MHz reducing the RX's sensitivity.

IMO, the effect described by Jim may be caused by this:
Turning the AGC off, and let the signal clip quite 'early' in the receiver reduces the time when the RX is deaf after a static crash. The system recovers very quickly to the mean sensitivity level. Some receivers have different speed settings for the AGC which give totally different results on the waterfall screen.

I don't think its an overflow in the soundcard's ADC, also not in the software (you would see this in SL's small input monitor screen where the waveform of the digitized signa can be observed. Also, most PC-based programs nowadays use floating point numbers which makes digital signal processing easier and even faster. Sure Jason also uses floats for the maths.


Hope to receive / see / hear you later.

WX here is also very PUNNY at the moment :) with lots of QRN.

73 Wolf DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17443 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 12:26:24 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 12:26:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23673 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 12:26:34 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 12:26:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dAXY-00030Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:14:56 +0100 Received: from mta3.snet.net ([204.60.203.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17dAXW-00030T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:14:55 +0100 Received: from snet.net (nwhn-sh22-port159.snet.net [204.60.247.159]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/SNET-smtp-1.2/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with ESMTP id g79CJOI5027716 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D53B567.CEBB99A2@snet.net> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 08:28:23 -0400 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim Might be interesting to try an i-f clipper that has well defined characteristics and is adjustable from "soft" to "hard" clipping. Reminds me of the early days of SSB rf (really i-f) speech processing. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > I received G4JNT's Jason beacon again last night, and messed around further > with the gain levels, etc. I found the best results were achieved with the > AGC set to manual, the RF gain cranked up to maximum, and the audio gain > set so that the sound card ADC had a fairly high input level applied, but > not enough to overload it. Under these conditions, the IF signal was quite > severely clipped all the time (see the attachment). The audio sounded very > distorted of course. Backing off the RF gain so that little or no clipping > occurred made the signal unreadable by Jason, and almost invisible on a > waterfall display - whilst with the "Jimi Hendrix style" gain settings, the > waterfall was 'O', and Jason could copy perfectly - the difference was very > striking and counter-intuitive. > > I'm now fairly sure it is not the sound card ADC that is involved in the > effect, but rather that clipping the signal under QRN conditions improves > the SNR after further processing. This is the opposite to the optimum > setting required for receiving QRSS when there are multiple signals in the > passband; in this case the gain must be reduced until no clipping occurs, > otherwise "blocking" affects the weaker signals. > > I will look out for SM6LKM's 7MHz beacon on the new frequency later today > when I get a chance. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: clippedIF.jpg > clippedIF.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22390 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 11:30:15 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 11:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 4247 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 11:29:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 11:29:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d9eh-0002rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 14:18:15 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d9ef-0002rJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 14:18:13 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17d7u8-0007JB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:26:04 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17d7u7-0000aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:26:03 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020809115706.00a8a048@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:26:02 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: G4JNT and SM6LKM Jason beacons In-reply-to: <010d01c23f8a$3e9fec20$772765d5@oemcomputer> References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010906000801060500090309" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010906000801060500090309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I received G4JNT's Jason beacon again last night, and messed around further with the gain levels, etc. I found the best results were achieved with the AGC set to manual, the RF gain cranked up to maximum, and the audio gain set so that the sound card ADC had a fairly high input level applied, but not enough to overload it. Under these conditions, the IF signal was quite severely clipped all the time (see the attachment). The audio sounded very distorted of course. Backing off the RF gain so that little or no clipping occurred made the signal unreadable by Jason, and almost invisible on a waterfall display - whilst with the "Jimi Hendrix style" gain settings, the waterfall was 'O', and Jason could copy perfectly - the difference was very striking and counter-intuitive. I'm now fairly sure it is not the sound card ADC that is involved in the effect, but rather that clipping the signal under QRN conditions improves the SNR after further processing. This is the opposite to the optimum setting required for receiving QRSS when there are multiple signals in the passband; in this case the gain must be reduced until no clipping occurs, otherwise "blocking" affects the weaker signals. I will look out for SM6LKM's 7MHz beacon on the new frequency later today when I get a chance. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU --------------010906000801060500090309 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="clippedIF.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="clippedIF.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CADoAf0DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAABgIDBAUHAAEI/8QAORAAAQQB AwMDAwIFAwQDAAMAAQACAxEEBRIhBjFBEyJRBxRhMnEjQoGRoSQzUhWxwdEW4fAlQ3L/xAAV AQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAf/EABQRAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/ AMCaEsCyuaEsN+FVIrlOBvCcjiL/ANLST+E6+BzOHNIPwUEfbQsrtv4UlkW6gRdmhSI8Lo3V M2IPhxHkeD8oBPYfhcBaudS0XL02QtyIHsP5CrCzbYpAwB4XEVwnQ33dlzmG+WkfugaAspQa R4KUG0VJx4DLI1gP6jSCN6Z+F6Iza0F/Q+QdPjlhgc4kC6UGPoPVJmuIxyK5o2gDXM2mik1z StMzTJcTIdDOxzXtPIIU/Q9EdqeRtYy2tFlANkf4XhpX2uaZ9jmFgjqvlVXp3/Kgiu4F0Un+ 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(193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 10:49:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d8zP-0002kZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:35:35 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d8zO-0002kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:35:34 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79AhOI21056 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:43:24 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave-6 (por208.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.208]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g79AhOU04990 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:43:24 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020809104636.00a71490@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 10:46:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: SM6LKM Jason beacon In-reply-to: <010d01c23f8a$3e9fec20$772765d5@oemcomputer> References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Regret still nothing sensible. 73, Brian At 11:31 09/08/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Thanks to Walter G3JKV and Bernd DF8ZR for the reception reports. > >The beacon will keep running for some time. I'll let you know when >I shut it down. > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7467 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 09:54:12 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 09:54:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 28495 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 09:53:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 09:53:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d8AL-0002bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:42:49 +0100 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d8AK-0002bE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:42:48 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.38.163]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020809095038.ULMW26352.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:50:38 +0200 Message-ID: <010d01c23f8a$3e9fec20$772765d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: SM6LKM Jason beacon Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:31:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to Walter G3JKV and Bernd DF8ZR for the reception reports. The beacon will keep running for some time. I'll let you know when I shut it down. Center frequency: 7000.013 kHz (*) Jason TX mode: USB Power: 15 mW Antenna: Dipole, 6m above GND, wire runs N-S Locator: JO67MR (*) This is the actual carrier frequency, no BFO offset included. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1401 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2002 07:06:16 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 07:06:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1508 invoked by uid 10001); 9 Aug 2002 07:11:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2002 07:11:10 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d5SU-0002CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:49:22 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d5SS-0002CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:49:20 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17d3hq-0006EQ-09; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 08:57:06 +0200 Received: from 192.168.6.2 (0607144537-0001@[217.82.35.249]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17d3hn-1roL4KC; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:57:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: beacon From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040706060400020700080102" Date: 09 Aug 2002 06:56 GMT Message-ID: <17d3hn-1roL4KC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040706060400020700080102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Johan, got ur sigs this morning. fb copy, but mni spikes by qrn. 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post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d54t-000293-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:24:59 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17d54s-00028y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 09:24:58 +0100 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (50.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.50]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g796Wmi9024826 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:32:49 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020809073006.009f6690@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 07:34:30 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: SM6LKM Jason beacon In-reply-to: <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060605030505000502080805" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060605030505000502080805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Johan, Got about 30% copy on your beacon this morning at 0545-0615 GMT. Message "WX is sunny". Now (0630) faded. I'll keep trying. Think you were OK late last night but I was looking at wrong frequency 7003 when you'd changed to 7013. Walter G3JKV. --------------060605030505000502080805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT09974.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT09974.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02 --------------060605030505000502080805-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28186 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 23:43:12 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:43:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 29866 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Aug 2002 23:48:06 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:48:06 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cydy-0001Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:32:46 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cydw-0001Iq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:32:45 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.218]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808234035.SVOF8099.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:40:35 +0200 Message-ID: <00ba01c23f35$04d85c20$da2565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: SM6LKM Jason beacon QSY Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:40:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe, thanks for the screenshot from jo43sv. 10 dB QRO was enough. Apart from the "CX" at the beginning, it is solid copy. If/when I get a reception report from the U.K. I will start to reduce the output power. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11039 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 23:25:44 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:25:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 21168 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 23:25:24 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:25:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cyMU-0001EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:14:42 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cyMS-0001E6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:14:40 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.218]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808232226.SHOV3168.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:22:26 +0200 Message-ID: <009001c23f32$7ba63500$da2565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B75@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Jason test Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:22:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080704090503080801070108" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080704090503080801070108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Andy wrote: > OK, another test tonight and I may even forget to turn it off at bedtime ! Nil copy here (unless the message is very obscure), see attachment. > Still nothing on 7000.003kHz I have QSYed to 7000.013kHz and increased the power by 10 dB. 73 Johan SM6LKM --------------080704090503080801070108 Content-Type: image/tiff; name="jnt137_5.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="jnt137_5.gif" R0lGODlhMwJXAPcAAAAAAAAACAAAhAAQGCEhGCkhKSkxMTE5OTkxKTk5SkJKSkJSWkpKSlJC QlJKUlJSUlJSWlJaUlJaWlpSWlpSY1paWlpaY1paa1pac1pjWmNahGNjWmNjY2Nja2Njc2Nr Y2tra2trc2trhGtrlGtza3Nrc3NrnHNza3Nzc3Nze3NzhHNznHNzpXN7c3tzjHtzlHtznHtz pXt7c3t7e3t7jHt7nHt7pXuEhHuEjIR7hIR7nIR7pYR7rYSEhISEjISElISEnISEpYSErYSM jISMlIyEjIyEpYyErYyMjIyMlIyMrYyUjIyUlJSMlJSMrZSMtZSMvZSUnJSUpZSUrZSUtZSU vZSclJyUnJyUtZyUvZycnJycpZycrZycvZylnJylpaWcpaWcvaWcxqWlpaWlraWltaWlvaWl zqWtraW1zq2lra2lva2lzq2tra2txq2tzq21tbWtxrWtzrW1tbW1xrW1zrW9zr21xr21zr21 1r29vb29xr29zr291r293r3Gxr3G1sa9zsa91sa93sbGxsbG1sbG3sbG587G3s7G587O1s7O 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post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cyLF-0001Dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:13:25 +0100 Received: from fwd11.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17cwai-00013M-01; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 01:21:16 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.158.13.105]) by fwd11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17cwaH-07Lv5UC; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:20:49 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: SM6LKM Jason beacon QSY X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000504090900020004050208" Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:20:49 +0200 Message-ID: <17cwaH-07Lv5UC@fwd11.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000504090900020004050208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Johan Bodin schrieb: > Dear Jim, > > thanks for "listening". > > > [...] I would suggest QSYing up 10Hz, which would put you in the clear. > > Thanks for the suggestion. I will put it on 7000.013 kHz and also add > a class D "pair of boots" (a 74AC00 gate with series resonant tank :-). > > Until then, the beacon will be off the air for an hour or so. > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM Hi Johan, "O" copy in jo43sv. see attachment. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------000504090900020004050208 Content-Type: image/gif; name="SM6LKM1.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SM6LKM1.GIF" R0lGODdhygFuAPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA 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2002 23:14:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:14:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10788 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 23:14:13 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 23:14:13 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cyBW-0001By-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:03:22 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cyBV-0001Bt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 02:03:21 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.218]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808231111.SZEQ17723.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:11:11 +0200 Message-ID: <001e01c23f30$e9760080$da2565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Jason beacon now QRV QSY QRO Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 01:10:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi My Jason beacon is back on the air. Now on 7000.013 kHz with 15 mW into the dipole. (+10 dB since last try) 72/73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1883 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:57:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:57:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 7258 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Aug 2002 22:02:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 22:02:11 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwzZ-0000yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:46:57 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwzY-0000yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:46:56 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.22]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808215445.SSFX8099.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:54:45 +0200 Message-ID: <005601c23f26$3cd69c40$162565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020808100313.00b00a88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Jason Tests / Reasons for different soundcard sensitivity Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:37:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim Moritz wrote: > The curious thing is that if clipping occurs before the signal reaches > the sound card, the results are better than if clipping occurs in the > sound card - I would expect the effect of clipping would be similar > wherever it occurred between the IF filter and software FFT algorithm, > but apparently not so. Hmm... This is surprising, interesting and confusing... Could it be a strange kind of ADC or some DSP stuff on that soundcard that "wraps around" instead of clip at 0x7FFF and 0x8000? I was playing with an ADSP2181 DSP a few years ago and I before I got the filter coefficients scaled properly, I had problems with overflow in FIR filters. The "summing point" overflowed resulting in a _horrible_ sound. Fortunately I found a bit called something like "enable saturation" which made the MAC accumulator clip instead of wrap around. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24586 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:57:07 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:57:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17586 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:57:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:57:16 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwzb-0000yR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:46:59 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwza-0000yM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:46:58 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.22]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808215447.SSGC8099.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:54:47 +0200 Message-ID: <005701c23f26$3e24c720$162565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: SM6LKM Jason beacon QSY Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:53:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim, thanks for "listening". > [...] I would suggest QSYing up 10Hz, which would put you in the clear. Thanks for the suggestion. I will put it on 7000.013 kHz and also add a class D "pair of boots" (a 74AC00 gate with series resonant tank :-). Until then, the beacon will be off the air for an hour or so. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19024 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:54:30 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:54:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 24841 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:54:40 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:54:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwwe-0000xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:43:56 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwwd-0000xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:43:55 +0100 Received: from host217-36-19-243.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.19.243] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17cvC6-0001lZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 22:51:47 +0100 Message-ID: <004e01c23f25$d8bb7960$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <55.2b797b77.2a843a49@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: FIRST EA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:52:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Ooh err...
 
Could've opened a can of "ERP worms" there!
 
Dave
G3YXM.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: FIRST EA

In a message dated 8/8/02 9:06:40 PM GMT Daylight Time, g3yxm@wireless.org.uk writes:


Thanks for the info Mal.

It's impossible to remember every claimed QSO!
If anyone else thinks they have a claim to a "first" not noted on "the Matrix"  http://www.wireless.org.uk/matrix.htm please mail me direct.
I can only report what people tell me.

73
Dave
G3YXM


I thought the Matrix was for 136k - 136k QSOs ?
If cross band QSOs count then maybe Derek should have a quick look at the Puckeridge logs. With 50 Watts ERP  I seem to recall working Russia and several Eastern European countries cross band to 7 MHz. ( Not to mention VE1 - G in 9/00)

73

David  G0MRF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21065 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:23:30 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:23:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3219 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 21:23:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 21:23:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwRF-0000tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:11:29 +0100 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cwRE-0000tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Aug 2002 00:11:28 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.55.2b797b77 (4246) for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:19:05 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <55.2b797b77.2a843a49@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:19:05 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: FIRST EA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 8/8/02 9:06:40 PM GMT Daylight Time, g3yxm@wireless.org.uk writes:


Thanks for the info Mal.

It's impossible to remember every claimed QSO!
If anyone else thinks they have a claim to a "first" not noted on "the Matrix"  http://www.wireless.org.uk/matrix.htm please mail me direct.
I can only report what people tell me.

73
Dave
G3YXM


I thought the Matrix was for 136k - 136k QSOs ?
If cross band QSOs count then maybe Derek should have a quick look at the Puckeridge logs. With 50 Watts ERP  I seem to recall working Russia and several Eastern European countries cross band to 7 MHz. ( Not to mention VE1 - G in 9/00)

73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2468 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 20:07:00 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 20:07:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 6960 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Aug 2002 20:11:54 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 20:11:54 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cvFt-0000em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 22:55:41 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cvFs-0000eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 22:55:40 +0100 Received: from host217-36-19-243.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.19.243] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17ctVK-0001Fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 21:03:30 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01c23f16$ba095780$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000f01c23f00$05ad7980$f9e5fc3e@l8p8y6> Subject: LF: Re: FIRST EA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:03:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks for the info Mal.
 
It's impossible to remember every claimed QSO!
If anyone else thinks they have a claim to a "first" not noted on "the Matrix"  http://www.wireless.org.uk/matrix.htm please mail me direct.
I can only report what people tell me.
 
73
Dave
G3YXM.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:20 PM
Subject: LF: FIRST EA

The information on G3YXM web page about a first EA/G qso is incorrect. I worked EA1PX around 2 years ago xband, solid signals each way. This was reported here when the qso took place.
I have also worked quite a number of other EU stations xband over the years, all reported at the time.
If records are being kept then accuracy should be the prime factor.
de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14637 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 18:44:04 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 18:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 18409 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 18:43:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 18:43:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ctxy-0000US-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 21:33:06 +0100 Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com ([62.253.164.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ctxx-0000UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 21:33:05 +0100 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.229.45]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020808184055.GRTA9450.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:40:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c23f04$d9790000$2de5fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: EA1/G3 Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:55:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The first xband QSO between EA/G3 took place on the 13 - Feb - 1999 at 2147 utc between
EA1QX, Jose near Vigo and myself G3KEV. My report was 439 on 136.5 khz and his report from me on 3568 khz was 579.
This is one of a  number of xband QSO'S that I worked around EU with those not licensed to work on 136 khz.
This information has been reported over the years on this reflector when the events took place.
73 de G3KEV
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2062 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 18:08:54 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 18:08:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24788 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 18:09:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 18:09:04 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ctQW-0000Nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:58:32 +0100 Received: from mta6-svc.business.ntl.com ([62.253.164.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ctQV-0000Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:58:31 +0100 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.229.249]) by mta6-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020808180622.GEBU9450.mta6-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:06:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c23f00$05ad7980$f9e5fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: FIRST EA Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:20:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The information on G3YXM web page about a first EA/G qso is incorrect. I worked EA1PX around 2 years ago xband, solid signals each way. This was reported here when the qso took place.
I have also worked quite a number of other EU stations xband over the years, all reported at the time.
If records are being kept then accuracy should be the prime factor.
de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10769 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 17:46:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 17:46:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5394 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 17:46:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 17:46:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ct3I-0000JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:34:32 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ct3G-0000JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 20:34:31 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17crIi-00021b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 18:42:20 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17crIh-0006kI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 18:42:19 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020808182124.00b0a1b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 18:31:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: RE off band Jason In-reply-to: <005201c23ec6$2fb47ec0$682565d5@oemcomputer> References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Johan, LF Group, I looked for your Jason signal on 7.000 003 MHz during my lunch break - but at my QTH the few hertz around 7MHz has a number of weak carriers which come and go and drift around by a few Hz, a bit like what some of us see at 136.000kHz. If this is also a problem for others, I would suggest QSYing up 10Hz, which would put you in the clear. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26487 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 16:42:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 16:42:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11524 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 16:42:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 16:42:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cqga-0006aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 18:02:56 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cqgZ-0006aU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 18:02:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 2070 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 16:10:14 +0100 Received: from butterfly.mod.uk (HELO warlock.dstl.gov.uk) (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 16:10:14 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B75@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Jason test Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 16:09:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK, another test tonight and I may even forget to turn it off at bedtime ! Last night's transmission text was ' G4JNT TEST IO90IV58EI' (the last bit being my locator to a few metres accuracy) Still nothing on 7000.003kHz Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9981 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 11:02:35 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 11:02:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15442 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 11:02:16 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 11:02:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmjd-00064G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:49:49 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmjb-00064B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:49:47 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17ckzl-0007jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:58:21 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ckzj-0006oC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:58:19 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020808100313.00b00a88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:56:49 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests / Reasons for different soundcard sensitivity In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000307000908040405090704" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000307000908040405090704 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I received G4JNT's test signals again last night, and investigated the sound-card effects a bit further. I found the difference between the two sound cards was this - one sound card was fed from the RX audio line output; the QRN crashes were driving the sound card ADC into saturation at the peaks of the noise. The second was connected via the headphone socket - the AF gain adjustment was such that the audio output reached clipping before the sound card was overloaded. The second sound card gave significantly improved results. So I played with the gain settings, increasing the RF gain and reducing the audio gain so that both sound cards were receiving heavily clipped audio at a level which did not overload the sound card ADC in either computer. This gave much improved, and equally good results with both sound cards - The audio coming from the speaker sounded terrible, but the improvement on the waterfall/Jason displays was remarkable - see the waterfall from SpecLab in the attachment, where the clipped audio is on the left, and "normal" audio is on the right of the display. I also found there was some improvement in going from 300Hz to 1kHz IF BW. The curious thing is that if clipping occurs before the signal reaches the sound card, the results are better than if clipping occurs in the sound card - I would expect the effect of clipping would be similar wherever it occurred between the IF filter and software FFT algorithm, but apparently not so. There were thunderstorms nearly overhead while I was receiving the test signals, but with the gain adjusted for clipped audio as above, the Jason waterfall was remarkably free of QRN and I was getting perfect copy, even though there were bright lightning flashes lighting up the room. So I rotated the loop again to get a marginal signal to compare the effectiveness of the normal and KK7KA decoders. To get a consistent comparison, I recorded some .wav files of different signal levels, and then ran the same file through the different Jason decoders - the results shown in the attachment are from around 2230utc I think, which was the end of Andy's transmission (or at least when the signal disappeared from my screen). The upper decode is produced by the "native" decoder, and is completely garbled, whilst the lower decode is using the KK7KA decoder, and contains only a few errors (the last several characters are after the signal disappeared). The KK7KA decoder seems to give consistently better decoding with a marginal signal level. 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from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 10:51:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4167 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 10:51:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 10:51:12 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmXj-00061s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:37:31 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmXi-00061n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:37:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 8631 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 11:46:03 +0100 Received: from butterfly.mod.uk (HELO warlock.dstl.gov.uk) (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 11:46:03 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B6E@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Jason tests and (off topic) VHF beacon t ansmission Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:45:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'll carry on with the Jason test transmissions tonight. Generally the Tx is turned on when I get home, around 1600z and turned off at 2230z - so may as well continue with that. Having seen Alan's sceen dump of last night's reception it looks to have about 50% character error rate, which corresponds roughly to a 10% bit error rate - not bad for 212km with 4 Watts of RF and a tiny antenna ! Nothing seen on 7000.003kHz so far........ If anyone wants to try something slightly different again, there is a SLOWCW beacon using 1 second dot Frequency Shift Keying (20 Hz shift) on 70.0297 MHz signing G4JNT/P from locator IO80UU in Dorset. Spectrogram on its narrowest setting is ideal for monitoring this. The frequency varies a few tens, even 100 - 150 Hz over temperature as it uses an unovenned crystal so you may be forced to tune around a bit in particularly hot or cold weather. This beacon transmits telemetry for the GB3SC# set of microwave beacons on 2.3 to 24GHz, indicating mains voltage and current, DC supply voltage, shack temperature and two switch parameters. It runs 0.5 W to a dipole from the hilltop site. Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6261 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 10:30:42 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 10:30:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 21816 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 10:30:51 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 10:30:51 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmFU-0005ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:18:40 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cmFT-0005yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:18:39 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.104]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020808102711.QSFR8099.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:27:11 +0200 Message-ID: <005201c23ec6$2fb47ec0$682565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: RE off band Jason Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:24:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bernd, Andy DF8ZR wrote: > Is number 5 still alive, hi? No, there are no 5s in the beacon message. The message contains only one digit, the digit '6' in my callsign. I will not reveal the message content yet but a clue is that it depends on the local weather here, hi hi... G4JNT wrote: > By USB, do you mean the frequency specified is the carrier and the centre 800 > Hz (or whatever) higher, or is 7000.003 the centre of the transmission ? I'm > assuming for now you mean the latter, so off to listen throughout the day. Sorry... I should have been more clear. Yes, 7000003 Hz is the center frequency and "deltas" add to increase the frequency (unless it it wrapped back by "mod 17'). In other words, the frequency is 7000003 +/- 2.0187 Hz. Example: Tune the RX to 6999.000 kHz USB and set Jason to USB with 1003 Hz center frequency. I hope there is not too much sideband splatter below the band edge :-) TX line-up is 10 MHz Shera GPS standard -> 74HC74 div-by-2 -> 5 MHz -> tripler using a few inverters of a 74HC04 and tuned circuits -> 15 MHz -> ICS501 clock multiplier set to f*8 -> 120 MHz (the board was designed before AD9851 was available) -> AD9850 -> 40 MHz lowpass filter -> MAX4012 op-amp -> step attenuator -> two cascaded pi filters with all X's = 50 ohms @ 7 MHz -> dipole antenna.... A PIC16F628 does the Jason encoding and controls the DDS. 120 MHz DDS clock may seem a bit high for this experiment but I want to use the DDS as a general purpose signal generator. Worst case error is only 7.081 mHz on Jason tones 0 and 16, only 8.4% of an FFT bin. Let me know if you suffer from QRM and I will QSY. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18506 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 07:41:07 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:41:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 19233 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 07:41:14 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:41:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjRu-0005bW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:19:18 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjRt-0005bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:19:17 +0100 Received: from [212.1.156.196] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17chcu-00076J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:22:32 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:26:17 +0100 Message-ID: <01C23EB5.442D5720.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: [off band Jason] Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:26:14 +0100 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: By USB, do you mean the frequency specified is the carrier and the centre 800 Hz (or whatever) higher, or is 7000.003 the centre of the transmission ? I'm assuming for now you mean the latter, so off to listen throughout the day. This confusion over ways of specifying SSB frequencies, is not unique to amateurs. The UK Navy and Army both do it differently. One the centre of the channel, the other the nominal carrier frequency. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Johan Bodin [SMTP:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] Sent: 2002/08/08 00:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [off band Jason] Hi I am experimenting with Jason on HF and I have a tiny beacon running Jason on 7000.003 kHz (USB). The beacon is GPS disciplined and should be accurate to within 1E-10 or so. The output power is 1.5 mW into a dipole antenna, abt 6m up. Looking forward to reception reports... :) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27291 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2002 07:34:17 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:34:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23470 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Aug 2002 07:38:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:38:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjJY-0005aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:10:40 +0100 Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjJX-0005a7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:10:39 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17chZb-0000UP-08; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 09:19:07 +0200 Received: from 192.168.6.2 (0607144537-0001@[80.129.111.88]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17chZQ-13Oc8eC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:18:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: RE off band Jason From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000405050303030807090504" Date: 08 Aug 2002 06:41 GMT Message-ID: <17chZQ-13Oc8eC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000405050303030807090504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Johan, received a strange string of figures on your beacon frequency 7 000.003. Small pictures are attached. Is number 5 still alive, hi? Guess there are some misfunctions inside the RX: Siemens E403, IF BW 150 Hz. With Argo mode 10 sec(normal) nothing was seen on screen. My cond: QTH Locator JN49JV abt. 6.00 UTC date: 07.08.02 ant: tuned loop, aligned horizontal, 10 mtrs high I'm looking forward to get the real data. vy 73 es 55 Bernd, DF8ZR --------------000405050303030807090504 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="jason1.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="jason1.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CABSAdYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQQDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEFBgcCBAgD/8QATxAAAQMD AgMDBggKBgoCAwAAAQIDBAAFEQYSByExE0FRFBUiYXHRIzKBkZOhwfAIFhdCUlRVcpKxMzRi c6KyJCU1NkOCldPh8TiDU3Wz/8QAGQEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEDAgQF/8QALxEAAgIB AwIEBAYDAQAAAAAAAAECESEDEjEEQRMiUXEUYYGRBRWCobHwI8HRUv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A f+IcoO6rtwPpDskAg9/wiqsW+vGVaZkcHm60pHXHUY8aprWssK1JBII/o0f5zVkLklSfj+zN VYdkIIqwNpkBgq+GPRI7/vivdqAbEvzjgjse/wBvo/bUv03bkTdWRAs55KPP9008cXrI1C4e 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2002 07:33:43 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:33:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23093 invoked by uid 10001); 8 Aug 2002 07:38:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 07:38:12 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjJU-0005a5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:10:36 +0100 Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cjJT-0005a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:10:35 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17chZb-0000UP-0A; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 09:19:07 +0200 Received: from 192.168.6.2 (0607144537-0001@[80.129.111.88]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17chZS-13Oc8fC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:18:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: RE off band Jason From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.104 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070607060401000200000308" Date: 08 Aug 2002 07:02 GMT Message-ID: <17chZS-13Oc8fC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070607060401000200000308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Johan, received on your beaconfrequency 7000.003 with Jason 0.94 a string of figures. Small pictures are attached.May be number 5 is still alive, hi. Guess there are misfunctions inside the RX: Siemens E403, 150Hz IF, locked with 7 000. 000 kHz. With Argo, mode 10 sec(normal) there was nothing seen on the screen!? My cond: QTH Locator JN49JV abt. 6.00 UTC on Thursday 7.08.02 ant tuned loop, aligned horizontal, 10 mtrs high I'm loocking forward to get the real data. vy 73 es 55 Bernd, DF8ZR --------------070607060401000200000308 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="jason1.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="jason1.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CABSAdYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQQDAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEFBgcCBAgD/8QATxAAAQMD AgMDBggKBgoCAwAAAQIDBAAFEQYSByExE0FRFBUiYXHRIzKBkZOhwfAIFhdCUlRVcpKxMzRi c6KyJCU1NkOCldPh8TiDU3Wz/8QAGQEBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEDAgQF/8QALxEAAgIB AwIEBAYDAQAAAAAAAAECESEDEjEEQRMiUXEUYYGRBRWCobHwI8HRUv/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A f+IcoO6rtwPpDskAg9/wiqsW+vGVaZkcHm60pHXHUY8aprWssK1JBII/o0f5zVkLklSfj+zN 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dRu9lKBlRSbh38qKlA4+/CfJ/GR8Z5dg9y/5lV154+wUUVYgXuHs+yk/Px3ZooroCAnaaB3+ w/bRRQBk+NKTyoooA/OPy0n5poooBT3+wUK6/fxoooA7/k+ykzRRRBAo8z9/Gl9x+2iigEB5 GjJwPZRRQB+afv40oPM/fxoooBD3ez7aXv8Ak+yiigEzQo8z9/GiigF9x+2kB5GiigDJwPZR +afv40UUAoPM/fxpD3ez7aKKAXv+T7KTNFFEECjzP38aX3H7aKKAQHkaMnA9lFFAH5p+/jSg 8z9/GiigEPd7Ptpe/wCT7KKKATNCjzP38aKKAX3H7aQHkaKKAMnA9lH5p+/jRRQCg8z9/GkP d7PtoooBe/5PspM0UUQQKPM/fxpfcftoooBAeRoycD2UUUAfmn7+NKDzP38aKKAQ93s+2l7/ AJPsoooBMkdCaKKKA//Z --------------070607060401000200000308-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20206 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 23:52:35 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 23:52:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 28356 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Aug 2002 23:57:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 23:57:03 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ccI1-0004tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 02:40:37 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ccI0-0004ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 02:40:36 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.41.116]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020807234908.PUTA8099.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 01:49:08 +0200 Message-ID: <002a01c23e6d$0d26d000$742965d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: [off band Jason] Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 01:48:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi I am experimenting with Jason on HF and I have a tiny beacon running Jason on 7000.003 kHz (USB). The beacon is GPS disciplined and should be accurate to within 1E-10 or so. The output power is 1.5 mW into a dipole antenna, abt 6m up. Looking forward to reception reports... :) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12425 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 21:11:36 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 21:11:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13783 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Aug 2002 21:16:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 21:16:29 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cZkL-0004Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 23:57:41 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cZkK-0004Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 23:57:40 +0100 Received: from k7t.pncl.co.uk (116.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.116]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id g77L6CEB000671 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:06:13 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807220421.009f1ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 22:07:46 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: G4JNT test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010509010606000304090605" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010509010606000304090605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andy, Test recvd 100% error-free here over 1 hour. No difference noted between "native" and "KK7A" decoders. Nothing audible by ear. QRN fairly bad. Antenna 1 metre whip. Walter G3JKV. --------------010509010606000304090605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT10010.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT10010.txt" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.381 / Virus Database: 214 - Release Date: 02/08/02 --------------010509010606000304090605-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 71 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 18:23:14 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 18:23:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16869 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 18:22:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 18:22:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cWfW-0004DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:40:30 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cWfV-0004Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:40:30 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.de.2b3811f6 (4254) for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:48:23 EDT Subject: LF: Reasons for different soundcard sensitivity To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Jim and group,

The problem you mentioned (Jason decoding and waterfall sensitivity) may not only be a problem of the soundcard itself. Just a thought:

The reason can also be the computer itself: If windoze (or something else) occupies the CPU for too long, there may be an interrupted stream of input samples, producing a phase jump.
To verify this, feed a clean and stable sine wave from an audio generator into the line input, and observe the signal on the waterfall (either Jason, Argo, SpecLab..). If samples get lost, the spectrum will get "broad" occasionally for a few lines on the waterfall display.

On my office-PC the inevitable microsoft-jingle is chopped into pieces when the system boots, despite a 1GHz-CPU. No trouble on an old 266 MHz-workhorse. I guess the DMA from harddisk and soundcard collide in some cases, in other cases they dont. Or one soundcard has a larger hardware buffer than others. Time to build external ADC hardware.. ?

Different SNR of the soundcards should'nt be the reason, as long at the input level is properly set. Or does one of the tested cards only have an 8-bit ADC ?

Regards,
 Wolf  DL4YHF.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10510 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 09:51:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 09:51:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3458 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 09:51:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 09:51:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cP2u-0003LR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 12:32:08 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cP2u-0003LM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 12:32:08 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17cNJ3-0004um-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:40:41 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17cNJ2-0002pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:40:40 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020807101505.00a86448@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:40:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Testing In-reply-to: <01C23DEC.40300420.g4jnt@thersgb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF group, Thanks for the tests - I received the G4JNT Jason beacon last night for a few hours. With a loop antenna aligned on Andy's QTH , the signal started off as "nearly audible", and strong enough to produce full quieting on the Jason waterfall display. So as a crude test of low SNR conditions, I turned the loop until the signal was almost nulled out, and copy was marginal. Under these conditions I found the KK7KA decoder produced consistently fewer errors, corresponding to an advantage of a few dB, I suppose. I found that a signal that would be "M" copy viewed as 10s/dot QRSS would give almost perfect copy (a few % of corrupt characters) using Jason with the KK7KA decoder. I also found that my old P133 computer gave results consistently a few dB better than my newer laptop - this was true both with Jason and with the Spectrum Lab waterfall display, so would seem to be due to the different sound card hardware rather than any software issue; worth investigating further. As it got dark, the noise level rose by about 20dB, so by the end of the session, I had to gradually turn the loop so it was lined up with G4JNT again to get good copy. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU At 08:27 07/08/2002 +0100, you wrote: >I will be transmitting another Jason test transmission at low power tonight > 137.500000 kHz < 500uW ERP. Start time at least by 1900z, and probably >earlier. > >Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7198 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 07:35:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 07:35:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 13536 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Aug 2002 07:40:40 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 07:40:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cMzM-00036U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:20:20 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cMzL-00036P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:20:19 +0100 Received: from [212.1.152.122] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17cLAT-00018u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:23:41 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:27:21 +0100 Message-ID: <01C23DEC.40300420.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason Testing Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:27:11 +0100 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be transmitting another Jason test transmission at low power tonight 137.500000 kHz < 500uW ERP. Start time at least by 1900z, and probably earlier. Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2271 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2002 03:09:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 03:09:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2259 invoked by uid 10001); 7 Aug 2002 03:14:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2002 03:14:39 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cIqN-0002fN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 05:54:47 +0100 Received: from out006pub.verizon.net ([206.46.170.106] helo=out006.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cIqM-0002fI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Aug 2002 05:54:46 +0100 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.34.250]) by out006.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.09 201-253-122-126-109-20020611) with ESMTP id <20020807030244.YHB310.out006.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 22:02:44 -0500 Message-ID: <3D508E87.717DE5AF@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 23:05:43 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: AMRAD Comments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LFers, AMRAD has now posted its latest comments to the FCC re the new proposed 136 allocation. You may find these comments at http://www.amrad.org/projects/lf/NPRMComments.pdf 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12477 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 19:25:19 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 19:25:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 1801 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 19:25:03 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cBdn-0001hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:13:19 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cBdm-0001hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:13:18 +0100 Received: from [212.1.156.205] (helo=RSGB613192) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17c9ow-0007gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 20:16:43 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c23d7e$72006f80$cd9c01d4@RSGB613192> From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason Test Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:21:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Test transmission going out on 137.50000kHz until at least 2200z
ERP < 500uW
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25984 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 18:23:24 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 18:23:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18502 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 18:23:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 18:23:07 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cAfD-0001ZE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:10:43 +0100 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17cAfC-0001Z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:10:42 +0100 Received: from [62.21.138.85] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17c8vK-00066r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 18:19:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020806201916.00a16a60@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 20:22:55 +0200 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: LF: Website on antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

Via F6ETI and PA0EZ reached me the following  URL of a useful website on antennas.


http://www.ac6v.com/antprojects.htm

73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7711 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 11:56:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 11:56:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17258 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 11:56:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 11:56:34 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17c4SP-0000ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:33:05 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17c4SO-0000oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:33:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 11984 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2002 12:41:37 +0100 Received: from butterfly.mod.uk (HELO warlock.dstl.gov.uk) (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 12:41:37 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B67@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Jason Coding and test transmission toni ght Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:41:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK, so frequency shift is always logically positive, incrementing modulo 17. I'll get round to writing some PIC code to make a beacn transmission with the AD9851 chip some day. There is not much point adding a beacon mode into the existing board controller software; probably no space for it anyway. I'll put out another low power test transmission tonight (Tuesday) starting 1800 UTC (or posibly even earlier, it depends if I go for a runor not), frequency 137500.0000. Have just seem in the documantation how to set up a beacon mode by including text in {} so I can leave it running without having to keep typing in new text every hour or so. Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11627 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 16:23:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:23:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 3153 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 16:23:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:23:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bmD0-0007CI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:03:58 +0100 Received: from ool-18bfaa5c.dyn.optonline.net ([24.191.170.92] helo=block.iamanidiot.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bmCy-0007C5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:03:57 +0100 Received: from block.callsign.net (davidwillmore@localhost) by block.iamanidiot.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g75GBw900788 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:11:59 -0500 Message-ID: <200208051611.g75GBw900788@block.iamanidiot.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Confused over Jason coding In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:22:16 BST." <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B63@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:11:58 -0400 From: "David Willmore" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > Must have missed something, but in looking at the coding scheme for the > frequency shifts in Jason (as a preliminary to writing some PIC code to > drive a DDS chip for a beacon) I came across a snag. > > The 64 characters are coded 4 bits at a time (allowing for the MSB > identifier) as 16 frequency shifts. OK so far, 16 shifts = 4 bits. But, > what happens if it is impossible to get more than 8 bits of shift? For > instance, say the frequency from the last character ended up at exactly > midway - frequency 8. Then it is impossible to code any value greater than > 8 without going outside the defined frequency limits. > > I'm sure this was all explained last year when the mode was being developed > but can't find any reference to it now. And the Tech Notes that come with > V0.94 don't cover this aspect. > > A thought has just occurred while writing this - does the direction of > frequency shift matter, which can then be taken modulo 16, giving 16 > possible shifts from 17 tones? Which means the sideband in use is > sensitive. Have I answered my own question ? You 'wrap' around at the top of the 'band'. So, all frequencies are available at all times. So, if you're at (zero based) tone 8 and want to shift +16, you will end up on tone 8+16 mod 17 or tone 7. The 'next tone' formula is just current tone + desired shift mod 17. Shifts are always thought of as 'positive', but the band is just a little mobius strip. :) Cheers, David N0YMV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3206 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 16:06:22 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:06:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 12056 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 16:06:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:06:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bm3w-000795-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:54:36 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net ([165.212.11.111] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bm3v-000790-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:54:35 +0100 Received: from uadvg129.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.129) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:03:06 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.72] by uadvg129.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 689gHeqDm0175M29; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:03:12 GMT Message-ID: <3D4EA15D.3A1D682D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:01:33 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Confused over Jason coding References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B63@mail.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > I'm sure this was all explained last year when the mode was being developed > but can't find any reference to it now. And the Tech Notes that come with > V0.94 don't cover this aspect. >From the TechNote : > The frequency deltas can assume one of 16 different values. After sending one tone, > the next one is shifted by the appropriate amount, up or down depending on the > setting of the USB/LSB switch. With 16 deltas we need 17 slots, and any overflow > causes a wraparound. Maybe I haven't been much clear there. What I meant is that the direction of the frequency shift depends on the setting of the USB / LSB switch in the Option menu of the program. If the amount of the shift is such that we go over the highest (or the lowest) slot, then a wraparound occurs, and we re-enter from the opposite side. In its first incarnation Jason was sideband-insensitive, but it had a greater band occupancy. I asked for opinions, and the general consensus was that the need to specify the USB / LSB mode was a small price to pay for a reduction in bandwidth. > A thought has just occurred while writing this - does the direction of > frequency shift matter, which can then be taken modulo 16, giving 16 > possible shifts from 17 tones? Which means the sideband in use is > sensitive. Have I answered my own question ? Yes, you did. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2400 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 15:37:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 15:37:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18622 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 15:37:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 15:37:23 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17blR0-000701-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:14:22 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17blQy-0006zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:14:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 20703 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 16:22:47 +0100 Received: from butterfly.mod.uk (HELO warlock.dstl.gov.uk) (192.5.29.10) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 16:22:47 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B63@mail.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Confused over Jason coding Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:22:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Must have missed something, but in looking at the coding scheme for the frequency shifts in Jason (as a preliminary to writing some PIC code to drive a DDS chip for a beacon) I came across a snag. The 64 characters are coded 4 bits at a time (allowing for the MSB identifier) as 16 frequency shifts. OK so far, 16 shifts = 4 bits. But, what happens if it is impossible to get more than 8 bits of shift? For instance, say the frequency from the last character ended up at exactly midway - frequency 8. Then it is impossible to code any value greater than 8 without going outside the defined frequency limits. I'm sure this was all explained last year when the mode was being developed but can't find any reference to it now. And the Tech Notes that come with V0.94 don't cover this aspect. A thought has just occurred while writing this - does the direction of frequency shift matter, which can then be taken modulo 16, giving 16 possible shifts from 17 tones? Which means the sideband in use is sensitive. Have I answered my own question ? Andy G4JNT "This e-mail is intended for the recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print, or rely upon this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify the author by replying to this e-mail." "Recipients should note that all e-mail traffic on MOD systems is subject to monitoring and auditing." From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27811 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 15:33:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 15:33:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14450 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 15:33:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 15:33:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17blMi-0006y9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:09:56 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17blMh-0006y4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:09:55 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17bjcn-0002bD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:18:25 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17bjcm-0000iN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:18:24 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020805160359.00aca2b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:18:15 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: DL1? In-reply-to: <000c01c23b8d$c3668aa0$1700a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:05 04/08/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Dear all. > >I was called this morning at 0750utc by DL1???, unfortunately the band >still seems noisy from the storms and I couldn't get the call. >Who was it? > >73 >Dave >G3YXM. Dear Dave, LF Group, Yes, it was DL1EIE, Arnim. I was able to work him on Saturday. The QRN during the weekend was fantastically loud, probably not surprising considering the thunderstorms drifting about during the day locally. Sorry I missed the Jason tests from G4JNT - maybe next time! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 11:10:08 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 11:10:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12291 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 11:10:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 11:10:14 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bhR2-0006PP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:58:08 +0100 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bhR1-0006PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:58:08 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d8.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.232] (may be forged)) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g75B6dm98951 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: ARGO bug report... Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:07:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3D4E47CB.84D56248@usa.net> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you, that will be nice to have. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 4:39 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: LF: ARGO bug report... WE0H wrote: > I found that v.128 beta could only capture at a maximum interval of 9999 > seconds. There will be a bit of overlap of capture windows at QRSS-90 and > even more at -120. I set it to 9999, which sure isn't many captures for an > overnighter, but will cover it all until 6am central when I shut it down. Mike, I put that arbitrary limit on the capture interval of Argo, thinking nobody would need a greater value. Apparently I was wrong... The next version (for which I have no dates at the moment) will have that limit relaxed, and the capability to record / playback standard WAV files. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23589 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 09:45:48 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 09:45:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24793 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 09:45:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 09:45:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bg66-0006F6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:32:26 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay05.mx.net ([165.212.11.2] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bg64-0006F1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 12:32:25 +0100 Received: from uadvg131.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.131) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 09:40:35 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.72] by uadvg131.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 505gHeJpD0405M31; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 09:41:04 GMT Message-ID: <3D4E47CB.84D56248@usa.net> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 11:39:23 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: LF: ARGO bug report... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WE0H wrote: > I found that v.128 beta could only capture at a maximum interval of 9999 > seconds. There will be a bit of overlap of capture windows at QRSS-90 and > even more at -120. I set it to 9999, which sure isn't many captures for an > overnighter, but will cover it all until 6am central when I shut it down. Mike, I put that arbitrary limit on the capture interval of Argo, thinking nobody would need a greater value. Apparently I was wrong... The next version (for which I have no dates at the moment) will have that limit relaxed, and the capability to record / playback standard WAV files. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23994 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2002 02:55:47 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 02:55:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 26695 invoked by uid 10001); 5 Aug 2002 03:00:41 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2002 03:00:41 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bZZU-0005Zw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 05:34:20 +0100 Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.203]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bZZT-0005Zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2002 05:34:19 +0100 Received: from k6500 (d28.as3.mpls.mn.voyager.net [169.207.249.252] (may be forged)) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g752gXY25525; Sun, 4 Aug 2002 22:42:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "WE0H" To: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Cc: "Post Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: ARGO bug report... Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:42:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I found that v.128 beta could only capture at a maximum interval of 9999 seconds. There will be a bit of overlap of capture windows at QRSS-90 and even more at -120. I set it to 9999, which sure isn't many captures for an overnighter, but will cover it all until 6am central when I shut it down. Mike>WE0H http://www.we0h.us/lf.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26757 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 17:40:43 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 17:40:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 25320 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 17:40:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 17:40:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bR3W-0004fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:28:46 +0100 Received: from mta1-svc.business.ntl.com ([62.253.164.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bR3V-0004fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:28:45 +0100 Received: from l8p8y6 ([62.252.228.197]) by mta1-svc.business.ntl.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020804173716.ETQG19938.mta1-svc.business.ntl.com@l8p8y6> for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:37:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c23bd7$4d91bf80$c5e4fc3e@l8p8y6> From: "hamilton mal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <126.14aee769.2a7e9dbe@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: DL1? Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 17:51:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: LF: DL1?

Hello Dave,

Quite likely that the DL1 station calling you was DL1EIE,
 
I heard DL1EIE on Saturday morning about 559 calling CQ. He then worked DK7SU. The qrn was severe.
G3KEV
 
 located in JO31. I worked Arnim(?) for the first time around noon in very heavy QRN so I'm not sure about his name, but the call is certain.

BTW there was an impressive Moegel-Dellinger effect this sunday in the early afternoon shortwave completely dead but the "band indicator signals" near 136kHz audible as usual. May be interesting to see what happens when the slower particles from the sun arrive.

Hope the sferics get a bit weaker soon.

Regards,
 Wolf DL4YHF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22072 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 15:24:33 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 15:24:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23621 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 15:24:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 15:24:20 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bOlL-0004TV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 18:01:51 +0100 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bOlK-0004TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 18:01:50 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.126.14aee769 (4238) for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:09:50 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <126.14aee769.2a7e9dbe@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:09:50 EDT Subject: Re: LF: DL1? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Dave,

Quite likely that the DL1 station calling you was DL1EIE, located in JO31. I worked Arnim(?) for the first time around noon in very heavy QRN so I'm not sure about his name, but the call is certain.

BTW there was an impressive Moegel-Dellinger effect this sunday in the early afternoon shortwave completely dead but the "band indicator signals" near 136kHz audible as usual. May be interesting to see what happens when the slower particles from the sun arrive.

Hope the sferics get a bit weaker soon.

Regards,
 Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15773 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 09:15:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 09:15:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19224 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Aug 2002 09:20:25 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 09:20:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bJ7t-0003xO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:00:45 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bJ7s-0003xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:00:44 +0100 Received: from host213-122-188-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.188.151] helo=jackie) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17bHO0-0004vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 10:09:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c23b97$0fc27d60$97bc7ad5@jackie> From: "Steve Thompson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason sigs Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 10:12:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I heard what I think were Jason signals on 137.5 at about 09.40 clock time this morning. Can anyone confirm who (if anyone) was transmitting and the power they were running? Thanks Steve G8GSQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27843 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 08:10:46 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 08:10:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29570 invoked by uid 10001); 4 Aug 2002 08:15:35 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 08:15:35 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bI8H-0003q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 10:57:05 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bI8G-0003q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 10:57:04 +0100 Received: from host217-36-1-195.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.195] helo=dellboy) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17bGON-0007gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 09:05:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c23b8d$c3668aa0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: DL1? Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:05:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
I was called this morning at 0750utc by DL1???, unfortunately the band still seems noisy from the storms and I couldn't get the call.
Who was it?
 
73
Dave
G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7809 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 06:09:52 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 06:09:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22565 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2002 06:09:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2002 06:09:38 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bG7P-0003eW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 08:48:03 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17bG7O-0003eR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 08:48:02 +0100 Received: from host213-1-91-145.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.91.145] helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17bENW-0000ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Aug 2002 06:56:35 +0100 From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 06:58:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: (Fwd) John Sexton, G4CNN SK - 21/07/2002 Message-ID: <3D4CD092.25579.27D79E@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: Mail message body Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Rawlings GW4ALG attended John's funeral last Monday and sent me the following. Dave G3YMC ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:12:00 +0100 From: Steve Rawlings To: Dave Sergeant Subject: John Sexton, G4CNN SK - 21/07/2002 Hi Dave As mentioned last week, I accepted an invitation from John's family to attend the funeral service. The funeral service took place on 29th July in the West Chapel at Reading Crematorium, Caversham. This sad occasion was brightened a great deal through the clear skies and brilliant sunshine of that day. The service was conducted by Richard, John's eldest son. During the service, all three of John's children offered personal tributes to their much-loved father. Richard, together with his sister, Caroline and brother, Michael, each recounted aspects of their lives in which John had provided inspiration; encouragement; and support. They spoke about the uniqueness of their father, and the enormous contribution he had made to their understanding of the world around them. They also spoke of the contributions that John had made during his professional career - especially in the field of computing. A field that he entered in the 1960s. After the funeral service, we returned to the family home where I learned that John had become interested in science from a very early age. As a teenager he explored the night sky using a succession of homemade telescopes; and made radio receivers for himself and members of his family. He also developed an interest in botany and chemistry. John's brother recalled that John narrowly escaped serious injury while filling a used shell case with homemade gunpowder. Apparently the gunpowder ignited - making quite a bang! I was also told that John experimented with making dry cleaning fluid, and 'atom bombs'; although, apparently, none of these projects was successful! John also had a great interest in languages, and music. As a young man, he taught himself to play the piano, and would often entertain his family by playing the piano with one hand, and playing his homemade electronic organ with the other! He was also an adventurer, and I heard incredible stories abut his holiday trips to Russia, undertaken many years ago and during a time of much uncertainty. During one particularly sticky moment, his language skills probably saved his life. A remarkable man. With best regards, Steve GW4ALG ------- End of forwarded message ------- dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6022 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:56:35 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:56:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 20372 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:56:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:56:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b7bI-0002gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:42:20 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay01.mx.net ([165.212.11.110] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b7bH-0002gX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 23:42:19 +0100 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:50:50 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.76] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 903gHcuY40407M28; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:50:56 GMT Message-ID: <3D4C424F.7BBC46B4@usa.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:51:27 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason test References: <000c01c23b29$6a1a4680$903b073e@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nothing copied here in Italy, but with -40dBW ERP this is not surprising, considering also what I was using as an antenna. Alan Melia wrote : > I copied "BYE" and then the noise seemed to come up > in the decode window. Yes Alan, this is the effect of the visual AGC I mentioned in a past message. Version 0.95 will have the 19200 bps optionally selectable, and the possibility to save / playback the I/Q samples after the decimator. This has the positive effect to reduce to 1/32th (or is it 1/32nd ?) the file size on disk with respect to a standard WAV file, and a greater playback speed. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24816 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:13:34 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:13:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 28448 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:13:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:13:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6vO-0002Yl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:59:02 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6vN-0002Yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:59:01 +0100 Received: from host62-7-59-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.59.144] helo=main) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17b5BV-0006c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:07:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c23b29$68676660$903b073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DCF39 Signal Strength plots Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 16:23:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all. If anyone is interested in ploughing back through the graphs, I have loaded a zipped file of all the DCF39 <> CT1DRP plot .GIF files that I display on my propagation report page, into the PROGRAMS area of my web site. The present file consists of plots from May 21 to 31st July and is about 650kB long. I will slowly work my way back through the files and put up the earlier ones as time allows. (I will have to go through the stage of replotting many of them as I was a little 'cavalier' with the wildcards in one of my cleanups (done at the DOS prompt...so no easy recovery) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/programs.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9429 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:13:17 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:13:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 28450 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:13:22 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:13:22 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6vR-0002Ys-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:59:05 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6vQ-0002Yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:59:04 +0100 Received: from host62-7-59-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.59.144] helo=main) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17b5BY-0006c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:07:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c23b29$6a1a4680$903b073e@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Jason test Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 21:03:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy thanks for the transmission. I could not believe my eyes at first. I did not see you at all on Spectran at the lowest resolution. I normally run this as a receiving aid. It allows me to use a 2.1 kHz filter and quickly drop an audio filter in if I see a signal, without going into anothe rroom to switch them on the receiver. The noise was quite high and I have heard thunder in the distance. So at 2020 I decided to receive 'blind'. Having got a BC on the native decoder I changed over the the new decoder, and after a few lower case x's sensible letters started to appear. From memory a sequence like following....... . xx .xxx .4xxx .4JNx J@x .4JNT JASxx etc. I will send the screen shot direct. In the middle of this I suffered a very heavy downpour as well. I presume you shut down at about 1936z, I copied "BYE" and then the noise seemed to come up in the decode window. After 3x's the decoder stopped guessing. Altogether quite impressive !! That is is the first time I have able to copy a weak signal on Jason. Jim is usually a rock-crusher here when he is running. Thanks and Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3894 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:10:14 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:10:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24608 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 20:10:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 20:10:17 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6rj-0002YK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:55:15 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b6ri-0002YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 22:55:14 +0100 Received: from host217-36-1-195.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.1.195] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17b57q-0001rI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:03:46 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c23b28$e9ef4d20$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <01C23A53.D6FD0D40.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Subject: LF: Re: Jason on DDS Module Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 21:03:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy. 100% copy in Birmingham. I know it's not DX but at least it proves the static immunity of Jason! Terrible QRN. Dave G3YXM. > I may put out a low power test transmission sometime this weekend at an RF > power level in the -40dBW ERP region if anyone is interested, and other > tasks don't intervene. > > Andy G4JNT > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16795 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 16:25:37 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 16:25:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24261 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 16:25:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 16:25:24 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b3JG-0002E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:07:26 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b3JF-0002Dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:07:25 +0100 Received: from [212.1.152.251] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17b1Ui-0001Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:11:08 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 17:16:24 +0100 Message-ID: <01C23B11.7E8ABEA0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: RE: Re Jason on the DDS Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 17:16:09 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That would be very helpful. Now I've added the code to programme the Jason increment into EEprom via the 'normal' DDS control, (done this morning after sending the last EMail) there are only 60 words of programme memory left. Which gives no scope for any future additions to the DDS software. If the Jason data could come in at 19200 this means I can use all the existing serial comms routines and free up more space. An EMC test using my 700 W PA was nearly a disaster this morning. A laptop with a 'touch screen' mouse did not like being in an E-Field of many hundreds of V/m and crashed so it wouldn't even reboot from the keyboard. After re-powering, the diskscan routine reported a corrupt file, but fortunately everything seemed to work. The main computer, in its metal case seems happy with this sort of field strength. Still OK for 1900z tonight (Saturday) fortunately ! Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Alberto di Bene [SMTP:dibene@usa.net] Sent: 2002-08-03 16:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re Jason on the DDS > Yes, the initial programming of teh DDS module is exactly as before, at > 19200 baud, the Jason code is tacked onto the end of the DDSPC5 software > with a separate serial comms routine for 9600 operation. The 9600 bps is not cast in stone. If it can be of help, in the forthcoming version I can add an option for 19200. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21808 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 15:16:15 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 15:16:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 28694 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Aug 2002 15:21:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 15:21:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b2Kx-00027B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:05:07 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay01.mx.net ([165.212.11.110] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b2Kw-000276-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:05:06 +0100 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 15:13:37 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.71] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 028gHcPNr0423M28; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 15:13:43 GMT Message-ID: <3D4BF347.3DE3636E@usa.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:14:15 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re Jason on the DDS References: <01C23AD9.05370000.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Yes, the initial programming of teh DDS module is exactly as before, at > 19200 baud, the Jason code is tacked onto the end of the DDSPC5 software > with a separate serial comms routine for 9600 operation. The 9600 bps is not cast in stone. If it can be of help, in the forthcoming version I can add an option for 19200. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9412 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 14:21:39 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 14:21:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 16658 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 14:21:42 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 14:21:42 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b1Tj-00020e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:10:07 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17b1Ti-00020Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:10:06 +0100 Received: from a7j7r2 (bts-0948.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.51.180]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id g73EIbk29058 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 15:18:37 +0100 Message-ID: <028a01c23af8$7270f120$b433f7c2@a7j7r2> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803120534.009ea3a0@POP3.freeler.nl> Subject: LF: Re: Cave Radio Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 15:16:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick, Many thanks for the reference. You are not off topic. Cave radio makes extensive use of LF, although not on amateur frequencies and the references you give look very interesting. In Europe we predominantly use 87 kHz but other frequencies are used on occasion. If you would like know more about us and what we do, please have a look at www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/creg/ and www.heyphone.org Regards, John Rabson (G3PAI) Editor Cave Radio and Electronics Journal ---- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 11:20 AM Subject: LF: Cave Radio > To All from PA0SE, > > I apologize for using the reflector for a subject that has nothing to do > with LF. > But I know there are subscribers to the list who are interested in cave > radio and I don't know how to address them directly. > > Radio Bygones, August/September 2002, Issue No. 78, contains the following > article (7 pages): > > "Radio Underground - South African experience of radio communications in > mines", by Brian Austin. > , > Attached the bibliography at the end of the article. > > RB is published by Wimborne Publishing Ltd > 408 Wimborne Road East > Ferndown > BH22 9ND England > E-mail: radiobygones@wimborne.co.uk > Phone 01202 873872, Fax 0120274562 > > Online issues are available to download from www.radiobygones.com > > 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5829 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 10:24:33 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 10:24:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28815 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Aug 2002 10:29:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 10:29:05 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17axld-0001aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:12:21 +0100 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17axlc-0001aT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:12:20 +0100 Received: from [62.21.137.193] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17aw1a-0007NZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 10:20:43 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020803120534.009ea3a0@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 12:20:54 +0200 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: LF: Cave Radio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090301030802090808080508" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090301030802090808080508 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE,

I apologize for using the reflector for a subject that has nothing to do with LF.
But I know there are subscribers to the list who are interested in cave radio and I don't know how to address them directly.

Radio Bygones, August/September 2002, Issue No. 78, contains the following article (7 pages):

"Radio Underground - South African experience of radio communications in mines", by Brian Austin.
,
Attached the bibliography at the end of the article.

RB is published by  Wimborne Publishing Ltd
408 Wimborne Road East
Ferndown
BH22 9ND England
E-mail: radiobygones@wimborne.co.uk
Phone 01202 873872, Fax 0120274562

Online issues are available to download from www.radiobygones.com

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rDmL+LHNqHQG6J4u8733nVxPxFV3Kx1vYMJH7pG7tGd5OrSpopT7ClY8G/3td3+vrxO/c9Mq TinbcC4jXJgahjxOh/fy2B2GX9rHpnV2K7zO42kmPzk0jzfQI6HQJ5zBpfZWBnbU3xyIE1Cp Xn2tZ73IEXjaVTvYlz293qfZp333KNPXq73bvz3cx73czz3d173d3z3e573ene893/e93/89 4Ae+4A8+4Re+4R8+4ie+4i8+4xtQ4yP+K0a+5E8+5Ve+RLdHBj6+tlo+53e+538+6Ie+6I8+ 6Zd+6f+Im6jUBZk8eWu+1feLiEi06c8+7de+7d8+7ue+7u8+7/e+7v+268tz+DGVyfq+8R8/ 8ie/8i8/88++m16+mbR98GchWDS/9V8/9me/809/VvO09t8+94e/+I9pP/mXv/mfP/qnv/qv P/u3v/u/P/zHv/zPP/3Xv/3fP/7nv/7vP//3P0D8EziQYEGDBxEmVLiQYUOHDyFGlDiRYkWL FzFm1LiRY0ePH0GGFDmSZEmTJ1GmVLmSZUuXL2HGlDmTZk2bBwMCADs= --------------090301030802090808080508-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27320 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 09:34:55 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 09:34:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5109 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 09:34:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 09:34:58 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ax0b-0001Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 12:23:45 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ax0a-0001Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 12:23:44 +0100 Received: from [212.1.148.149] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17avC4-0005b9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 10:27:29 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:32:08 +0100 Message-ID: <01C23AD9.05370000.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re Jason on the DDS Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:31:04 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'll put out a JASON test transmission tonight on 137.500000, at 1900 UTC (2000 local) using the low power Tx. I may be on sporadically earlier than that, using the high power Tx to test for any EMC and compatibility problems so any strong signals on 137.50000 +/- 2.02Hz may be me Yes, the initial programming of teh DDS module is exactly as before, at 19200 baud, the Jason code is tacked onto the end of the DDSPC5 software with a separate serial comms routine for 9600 operation. The only facility I haven't added yet is the ability to programme the Jason increment into the two EEprom location via the serial link - that still has to be done at the PIC programming stage. The new version will have the name DDSPC5J and by the time I distribute it, will have a 'J' command added to programme the increment. If you stick with flash programmed PICs such as the 16C84 and 16C628 then the programmer can be very simple. There are several designs around on the Web. I use the Epic programmer, but looking at the circuit of that it is very similar to many of the homebrew ones. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Alan Melia [SMTP:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] Sent: 2002-08-03 00:40 To: LF-Group Subject: LF: Re Jason on the DDS Hi Andy, that sounds quite useable. I presume that the initial programming will be at 19.2kB ?? or have you put the s/w UART down to 9.6 for this purpose?? This means it could be initially programmed manually with a simple terminal program and then Jason started. Are the possible glitches as a terminal program 'lets go' and Jason gains control of the port likely to be a problem?? I will be around most of the weekend and would like a chance to check out my system with Jason now I have found why I couldnt even copy Jim the other week. Make sure you have the Volume Control checked in the Multimedia components of Windows Set-up......this silly Billy didn't. Or I removed it in my attempts to clean up and shift any unnecessary files. I guess we need to get some more programmed PICs for the DDS.....note I must get myself a programmer. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25274 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 08:44:03 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 08:44:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 21760 invoked by uid 10001); 3 Aug 2002 08:48:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 08:48:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aw8i-0001MV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:28:04 +0100 Received: from cmsrelay02.mx.net ([165.212.11.111] helo=cmsoutbound.mx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aw8h-0001MQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:28:03 +0100 Received: from uadvg128.cms.usa.net (HELO cmsoutbound.mx.net) (165.212.11.128) by cmsoutbound.mx.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 08:36:33 -0000 Received: from usa.net [32.97.110.76] by uadvg128.cms.usa.net (ASMTP/dibene@usa.net) via mtad (CM.1201.1.04A) with ESMTP id 856gHciKn0381M28; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:36:39 GMT Message-ID: <3D4B9632.4F59237@usa.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 10:37:06 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason on DDS Module References: <01C23A53.D6FD0D40.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I may put out a low power test transmission sometime this weekend at an RF > power level in the -40dBW ERP region if anyone is interested, and other > tasks don't intervene. I would be interested to try to receive you, albeit the chances are minimal. What time and frequency ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25051 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 08:43:54 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 08:43:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 5675 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2002 08:43:57 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2002 08:43:57 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aw9v-0001Md-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:29:19 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aw9v-0001MY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:29:19 +0100 Received: from host213-122-227-33.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.227.33] helo=main) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17auQ2-0003X5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2002 09:37:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c23ac9$09c15d60$21e37ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Re Jason on the DDS Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 00:39:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, that sounds quite useable. I presume that the initial programming will be at 19.2kB ?? or have you put the s/w UART down to 9.6 for this purpose?? This means it could be initially programmed manually with a simple terminal program and then Jason started. Are the possible glitches as a terminal program 'lets go' and Jason gains control of the port likely to be a problem?? I will be around most of the weekend and would like a chance to check out my system with Jason now I have found why I couldnt even copy Jim the other week. Make sure you have the Volume Control checked in the Multimedia components of Windows Set-up......this silly Billy didn't. Or I removed it in my attempts to clean up and shift any unnecessary files. I guess we need to get some more programmed PICs for the DDS.....note I must get myself a programmer. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20154 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2002 17:42:32 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 17:42:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16000 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2002 17:42:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 17:42:20 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ai7T-00001h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:29:51 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ai7S-00001c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:29:50 +0100 Received: from [212.1.149.254] (helo=k9g2x9) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17agJ0-0001Kx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 18:33:38 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 2 Aug 2002 18:38:48 +0100 Message-ID: <01C23A53.D6FD0D40.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "A C Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason on DDS Module Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 18:38:32 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I seem to have successfully added a Jason mode to the AD9850/51 DDS Module. It certainly works from compur to computer anyway ! The DDS module is put into Jaso mode by grounding PB2. Then it receives the native Jason command words in the range 0 - 16 (decimal) at 9600 Baud and sets the DDS frequency appropriately. The centre frequency used is that stored in teh EEPROM from the normal programming. The Frequency increment (actually 8 times the increment) also has to be saved in EE prior to Jason operation. The S/W dpes not operate as a beacon transmitter in its own right, just as the interface between the PC and frequency source. I may put out a low power test transmission sometime this weekend at an RF power level in the -40dBW ERP region if anyone is interested, and other tasks don't intervene. Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25274 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2002 11:31:16 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 11:31:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6854 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2002 11:31:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 11:31:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17acAj-0007ew-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:08:49 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17acAj-0007er-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:08:49 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17aaQr-0007GX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:17:21 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17aaQr-0000Av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:17:21 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020802120726.00abdeb8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:17:17 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: LF In-reply-to: <004201c239e8$7c1f09c0$7918ebc3@BI57429bankinter> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 00:08 02/08/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hi again > >I´d like to know any information about the signals I´m receiving this >evening on: > 136000 Hz > 135796 Hz ( SVX??) > 135631 Hz > >73 de José Manuel, EA1PX > > Dear Jose, Many of us here in the UK, and also Brian, CT1DRP can hear what sounds like weak CW on 136.000 - actually, it is several weak carriers a few Hz apart heterodyning together - the theory is that it is caused by harmonics of the 8kHz clock used by many telecomms systems. SXV has certainly been on around 135.8k in the past - I have not heard it lately, though. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29661 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2002 11:21:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 11:21:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11774 invoked by uid 10001); 2 Aug 2002 11:26:17 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2002 11:26:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ac0m-0007bH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:58:32 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17ac0l-0007bC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:58:31 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17aaGu-00074E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:04 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17aaGt-0007Tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:04 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020802115016.00afa5b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: new Call?? In-reply-to: <000001c23947$f61f41a0$95fe7ad5@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:54 01/08/2002 +0100, G3NYK wrote: >Hi All, I have hard a nice signal a couple of times in the last week from >G3XIZ who according to my CD is in Biggleswade (near the A1 in >Cambridgeshire). Dear LF Group, I worked Chris, G3XIZ, on 137.0kHz this morning while waiting for a delivery at home. He was a good 589 signal with me - he is running 120W to a 40m wire and using a direct-conversion receiver. He also reports that his friend M0FMT hopes to be QRV by tomorrow. I told Chris that at the moment most activity tends to be in the morning at weekends - If you are around then, I'm sure they would both appreciate a call. I also heard PA3EGO (I think - ?) calling a bit later, but I had to go to work. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22357 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 22:57:41 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 22:57:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 8279 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 22:57:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 22:57:45 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aQWj-00065L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 01:42:45 +0100 Received: from dns.bankinter.es ([195.235.30.34] helo=smtp.bankinter.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aQWi-00065G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2002 01:42:44 +0100 Received: from BI57429bankinter (h024121.nexo.es [195.235.24.121]) by smtp.bankinter.es (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA27375 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:51:15 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <004201c239e8$7c1f09c0$7918ebc3@BI57429bankinter> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel?= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:08:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi again
 
I´d like to know any information about the signals I´m receiving this evening on:
                    136000 Hz
                    135796 Hz ( SVX??)
                    135631 Hz
 
73 de José Manuel, EA1PX
                       
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 169 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 21:08:54 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 21:08:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14466 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 21:08:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 21:08:56 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aOhI-0005p1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 23:45:32 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aOhH-0005ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 23:45:31 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v33.5.) id l.15c.114d17f4 (4262) for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.114d17f4.2a7af9df@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:53:51 EDT Subject: LF: Measuring the effective voltage with FFT / SpecLab To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Andy and group,

>> One way to check would be measure the total power in the signal in a 6kHz (better still 8kHz)
bandwidth and plot this out over a few seconds.   Not unsurprisingly, none
of the PD software available includes this option so I've recorded a few
seconds of .WAV file of this downconverted signal and can have a go at
processing that.
<<

There is such a function in SpecLab's numeric interpreter (now) which calculates the effective voltage in any audio frequency range, based on the results from the FFT calculation. I don't want to bore the group with details, but it may be interesting. With a soundcard running at 44100 samples/second, precise readings can be taken up to a bandwidth of 16 kHz.
The syntax is "veff ( <frequency1> , <frequency2> )". Up to 20 different bands can be observed this way in real time, numeric or as graph, or the results written to a file.

If someone likes to participate, I will upload the new software to my website now (www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html).  The "veff" function is not explained in the manual ! More info and an example configuration file with all required settings available on request.

Regards,
Wolf DL4YHF.



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12544 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 15:33:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 15:33:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6213 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 15:33:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 15:33:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aJe6-0005J1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:21:54 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aJe5-0005Iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:21:53 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17aHuD-0000ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:30:25 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17aHuC-00035a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:30:24 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020801150448.00ac5c58@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:25:42 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Droitwich carrier In-reply-to: <009d01c2394e$f5025bc0$62f7a941@user> References: <200208010356.g713ujZ12610@block.iamanidiot.com> <3D49015E.E2800231@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I looked at several LF and MF broadcast carriers last night; some showed carrier levels that increased in the quiet periods like Droitwich, others increase the carrier level with increasing modulation like DLF, and some just have a plain, steady carrier - from which I conclude there is no consensus amongst broadcast engineers! All this is very interesting, but it makes it more difficult to measure the field strength - I suppose the thing to do is measure the carrier level during a period of silence in the programme material, when the carrier level is constant, at least for a second or two. Also, how does one interpret the transmitter power of these stations? If Droitwich is 500kW, is this carrier power, and if so under what conditions ("peak carrier power" perhaps?) or PEP? - or mean power? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16949 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 15:03:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3514 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 15:03:23 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 15:03:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aJAN-0005Dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:51:11 +0100 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([144.254.98.48] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aJAM-0005Dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:51:10 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp113.cisco.com [10.50.0.112]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25116 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:59:10 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3D494C2A.C0067976@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:56:42 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: "Downward modulation" References: <01C2396D.942EAAA0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Do you think that we could get a tour of the station and a lecture on site? Stewart Andy talbot wrote: > Well, I think that solves the problem. Makes sense, and Droitwich is > certainly a 'very high power transmitter'. But a lot has been mentioned over > the last few days about the technology of high power transmitters. Techniques, > I for one, knew nothing about. Would be very interesting if those in the know > could put together some sort of treatise on these. Or an idea for a lecture at > a future LF Meeting. Just a hint ;-) > > I went to take a look at Droitwich a few days ago and noticed something a bit > odd. The Tee top section is not symmetrical. One end seems to have an extra > bit of wire attached to it that the other end does not have. A legacy of the > move from 200 to 198kHz perhaps ? > > Andy G4JNT > > -----Original Message----- > From: Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich [SMTP:inforhc@ip.etecsa.cu] > Sent: 2002/08/01 12:31 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: "Downward modulation" > > You are certainly talking about DAM... > Dynamic Amplitude Modulation.... > a process that is used with very high power > transmitters to save energy..... > When there is no modulation, the carrier > level is moved UP, in order to keep the > signal to noise ratio on the channel at > a better level for the listener ( i.e. no background > noise or co-channel stations... you require > 26 dB signal to noise ratio on an AM system > that has between 4 and 5 kiloHertz bandwidth > in order to provide full quieting ...) > AND YES.... there are many high power > AM transmitters nowadays that are facing > very poor operation !!! > 73 and DX > Arnie Coro > CO2KK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16172 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 14:15:41 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 14:15:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18167 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 14:15:45 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 14:15:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aIQ7-00057p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:03:23 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aIQ6-00057k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:03:22 +0100 Received: from [212.1.148.237] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 17aGbm-0008Sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:07:19 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:10:32 +0100 Message-ID: <01C2396D.942EAAA0.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: "Downward modulation" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:10:29 +0100 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, I think that solves the problem. Makes sense, and Droitwich is certainly a 'very high power transmitter'. But a lot has been mentioned over the last few days about the technology of high power transmitters. Techniques, I for one, knew nothing about. Would be very interesting if those in the know could put together some sort of treatise on these. Or an idea for a lecture at a future LF Meeting. Just a hint ;-) I went to take a look at Droitwich a few days ago and noticed something a bit odd. The Tee top section is not symmetrical. One end seems to have an extra bit of wire attached to it that the other end does not have. A legacy of the move from 200 to 198kHz perhaps ? Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich [SMTP:inforhc@ip.etecsa.cu] Sent: 2002/08/01 12:31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: "Downward modulation" You are certainly talking about DAM... Dynamic Amplitude Modulation.... a process that is used with very high power transmitters to save energy..... When there is no modulation, the carrier level is moved UP, in order to keep the signal to noise ratio on the channel at a better level for the listener ( i.e. no background noise or co-channel stations... you require 26 dB signal to noise ratio on an AM system that has between 4 and 5 kiloHertz bandwidth in order to provide full quieting ...) AND YES.... there are many high power AM transmitters nowadays that are facing very poor operation !!! 73 and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9050 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 12:34:29 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 12:34:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 13519 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 12:34:19 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 12:34:19 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aGpn-0004uA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:21:47 +0100 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aGpl-0004u5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:21:46 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g71CU8r23742 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp-098ved.pppi.etecsa.cu(65.169.247.98), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by mail, id smtpdAAABJa4uU; Thu Aug 1 08:30:05 2002 Message-ID: <009c01c2394e$e6d44ae0$62f7a941@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020801100707.00a17630@POP3.freeler.nl> Subject: LF: Re: "Downward modulation" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:30:47 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: You are certainly talking about DAM... Dynamic Amplitude Modulation.... a process that is used with very high power transmitters to save energy..... When there is no modulation, the carrier level is moved UP, in order to keep the signal to noise ratio on the channel at a better level for the listener ( i.e. no background noise or co-channel stations... you require 26 dB signal to noise ratio on an AM system that has between 4 and 5 kiloHertz bandwidth in order to provide full quieting ...) AND YES.... there are many high power AM transmitters nowadays that are facing very poor operation !!! 73 and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8660 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 12:34:20 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 12:34:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 14782 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 12:34:10 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 12:34:10 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aGqG-0004uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:22:16 +0100 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aGqE-0004uE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:22:14 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g71CUgj23915 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:30:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp-098ved.pppi.etecsa.cu(65.169.247.98), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by mail, id smtpdAAAOwaGCU; Thu Aug 1 08:30:24 2002 Message-ID: <009d01c2394e$f5025bc0$62f7a941@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200208010356.g713ujZ12610@block.iamanidiot.com> <3D49015E.E2800231@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Droitwich carrier Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:30:58 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Antenna current will go UP when 100 percent modulation is applied to a carrier that is stable ( no carrier shift or power supply regulation problems ) Just try it and you will see !!! Arnie Coro CO2KK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15066 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 10:44:47 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 10:44:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7808 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 10:44:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 10:44:50 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aF8i-0004if-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:33:12 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aF8h-0004ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:33:11 +0100 Received: from host213-122-254-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.254.149] helo=main) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17aDOp-0001gV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:41:43 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c23947$f61f41a0$95fe7ad5@main> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: new Call?? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:54:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I have hard a nice signal a couple of times in the last week from G3XIZ who according to my CD is in Biggleswade (near the A1 in Cambridgeshire). He is about S7 here, despite the static but I am not far away from him in LF terms......probably 100kms. I have not heard him make a qso yet from his CQs this morning (0950z) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18769 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 09:46:31 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 09:46:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 13544 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 09:46:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 09:46:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aEAj-0004Zb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:31:13 +0100 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aEAi-0004ZV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:31:13 +0100 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g719d8PV034548 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:39:14 +0200 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.12.3/NCO/VER6.3) with ESMTP id g719d0a9034414 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:39:06 +0200 Message-ID: <3D49015E.E2800231@usa.net> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:37:34 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Droitwich carrier References: <200208010356.g713ujZ12610@block.iamanidiot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David Willmore wrote: > This is different from what I would expect to happen. > To start with, one takes a carrier or some power, then > one modulates its amplitude. This process spreads some > of the energy into the symetrical side bands--taking > power out of the carrier, thus causing 'downward > modulation' of the carrier, right? I beg to differ. A properly modulated AM signal will have a carrier of constant amplitude, unaffected by the modulation. That's why SSB was born, to eliminate altogether a spectral component that didn't carry any information content. FM is another case... Its spectrum can be computed with the Bessel functions and shows a carrier of amplitude changing with the modulation index, going down to zero for certain values of it, as Jim Moritz pointed out in a past message. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29815 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 09:45:47 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 09:45:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5822 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 09:45:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 09:45:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aEDA-0004Zl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:33:44 +0100 Received: from velli.mail.jippii.net ([195.197.172.114]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aED9-0004Zg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:33:43 +0100 Received: from meisaku (MKCDXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.166.213]) by velli.mail.jippii.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 928B118FE5 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:42:10 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020801124230.00928e50@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:42:30 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: "Downward modulation" In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020801100707.00a17630@POP3.freeler.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just wonder, why not ask Tony Preedy, G3LNP as the Droitwich system was designed by himself. I have a couple of articles written by him. 73, Vaino, OH2LX To All from PA0SE Apparently my remark that the carrier of Droitwich goes downwards during modulation has caused confusion. I certainly did not mean "downward modulation" as we remember it from our AM transmitter days, an effect caused by insufficient drive, weak power supply or other shortcomings of the transmitter (or the operator...) The carrier of Droitwich and BBC World Service is normal as long as there is a modulating signal. But during moments of no modulation the carrier rises to a higher level. As soon as modulation reappears the carrier returns to its normal level. This can be clearly seen in the attachment to the reflector posting of 31/7 by Jim, M0BMU. I am sure this is done on purpose and not a matter of poor design, bad maintenance or incompetence of the BBC engineers. Dave, G3YXM, in his posting of 30/7 has told us that it is a feature of modern transmitters that can be used to preserve a silent background in the face of interference. I can understand that in connection with the BBC World Service but why it is applied to the 198kHz transmissions escapes me. 73, Dick, PA0SE |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3914 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 08:54:24 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 08:54:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28257 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 08:54:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 08:54:28 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aDDj-0004RG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:30:15 +0100 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17aDDi-0004RA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:30:14 +0100 Received: from [62.21.130.111] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17aBTi-00035G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:38:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020801100707.00a17630@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:31:37 +0200 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: LF: "Downward modulation" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

Apparently  my remark that the carrier of Droitwich goes downwards during modulation  has caused confusion. I certainly did not mean "downward modulation" as we remember it from our AM transmitter days, an effect caused by insufficient drive, weak power supply or other shortcomings of the transmitter (or the operator...)

The carrier of Droitwich and BBC World Service is normal as long as there is a modulating signal. But during moments of no modulation the carrier rises to a higher level. As soon as modulation reappears the carrier returns to its normal level.  This can be clearly seen in the attachment to the reflector posting of 31/7 by Jim, M0BMU.
I am sure this is done on purpose and not a matter of poor design, bad maintenance or incompetence of the BBC engineers. 
Dave, G3YXM, in his posting of 30/7 has told us that it is a feature of modern transmitters that can be used to  preserve a silent background in the face of interference.
I can understand that in connection with the BBC World Service but why it is applied to the 198kHz transmissions escapes me.

73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 692 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 04:40:48 -0000 Received: from marstons.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.223) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 04:40:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24918 invoked by uid 10001); 1 Aug 2002 04:45:38 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by marstons.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 04:45:37 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a9Sd-00041P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:29:23 +0100 Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a9Sc-00041K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:29:22 +0100 Received: from user-37kau3a.dialup.mindspring.com ([207.69.120.106] helo=kd4wov) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17a7ic-0004BH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:37:47 -0700 From: "Tom Tishken KD4WOV" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Re: Droitwich carrier Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:38:18 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200208010356.g713ujZ12610@block.iamanidiot.com> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: in the tube days you directly modulate the finals with actual audio power. For example you have a 100 watt TXer. you would need 50 watts of audio to modulate the 100 watt carrier to 100% modulation. Thus you will be adding power to the carrier. This is called high level modulation. Low level modulation is done in the driver or exciter. This will produce AM but not the same power out. For instance most SSB rigs that have AM, actually produce AM by removing the SSB filters (now you have Double Sideband) and unbalancing the ring modulator (I.E. inserting or allowing a carrier to be sent thru). This will produce a carier of 1/4 rater output power, and will actually sound the same as high level, IF you have a 6 KC filter on the TX.You can not have AM on a SSB filter < 3 Khz, you need Double Side band 3 KHz + 3 KHz = 6 KHz Minimum. You can get by with 5 KHz but it will have some lost audio response. Think of AM as 2 SSB signals transmitted at the same time on the same freq. LSB and USB, both of them will have a common center freq. Lets use 14.300 MHz. A 1 Khz tone in the mic will produce a carrier and a tone with a freq 1 KHz higher and 1 KHz lower. So now you will be looking at 3 freqs: 14.300 carrier 14.301 USB 14.299 LSB On a AM receiver it will sound like a single 1 KHz tone. -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of David Willmore Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:57 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Droitwich carrier let's see this one get there, too. :) > Let's see if this gets to the list ! > 100 percent modulated AM transmitter > will show 22 percent power output increase > during a sustained 100 percent modulation > condition ! This is different from what I would expect to happen. To start with, one takes a carrier or some power, then one modulates its amplitude. This process spreads some of the energy into the symetrical side bands--taking power out of the carrier, thus causing 'downward modulation' of the carrier, right? I believe the Yaesu FT-817 uses this scheme for its AM transmit. I think it was described as 'early modulation' of the signal. Does that mean anything to you? How would one modulate a carrier and add power? I must be very lost. Cheers, David N0YMV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10037 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 04:04:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 04:04:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 27885 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2002 04:04:20 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a8pJ-0003vG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 06:48:45 +0100 Received: from ool-18bfaa5c.dyn.optonline.net ([24.191.170.92] helo=block.iamanidiot.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a8pI-0003vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 06:48:44 +0100 Received: from block.callsign.net (davidwillmore@localhost) by block.iamanidiot.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g713ujZ12610 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:56:45 -0500 Message-ID: <200208010356.g713ujZ12610@block.iamanidiot.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Droitwich carrier In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:40:09 -0300." <000401c238df$3e996d20$02000a0a@user> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:56:45 -0400 From: "David Willmore" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit let's see this one get there, too. :) > Let's see if this gets to the list ! > 100 percent modulated AM transmitter > will show 22 percent power output increase > during a sustained 100 percent modulation > condition ! This is different from what I would expect to happen. To start with, one takes a carrier or some power, then one modulates its amplitude. This process spreads some of the energy into the symetrical side bands--taking power out of the carrier, thus causing 'downward modulation' of the carrier, right? I believe the Yaesu FT-817 uses this scheme for its AM transmit. I think it was described as 'early modulation' of the signal. Does that mean anything to you? How would one modulate a carrier and add power? I must be very lost. Cheers, David N0YMV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24978 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 23:30:45 -0000 Received: from warrior.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.227) by mailstore with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 23:30:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9303 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 23:30:46 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 23:30:46 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a4T6-0003SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 02:09:32 +0100 Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.145]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a4T4-0003SE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 02:09:30 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20020731231729.MHZE25601.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:17:29 +1200 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.225.27]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020731231724.RMPR29812.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:17:24 +1200 Message-ID: <00a301c238e9$2266e7e0$389437d2@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6a.23b88f69.2a798441@aol.com> Subject: LF: ZL6QH beacon on 137 kHz Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:00:35 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
 
Plans are for ZL6QH to run a 137 kHz beacon transmission overnight on 17 August.  More details will be posted nearer to the time.  A further beacon test is planned for 21 September.
 
73, Bob ZL2CA 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12074 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 23:23:53 -0000 Received: from murphys.services.quay.plus.net (212.159.14.225) by mailstore with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 23:23:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 22807 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2002 23:23:55 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (193.82.116.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2002 23:23:55 -0000 X-SQ: A Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a4MK-0003Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 02:02:32 +0100 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17a4MG-0003Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 02:02:29 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g6VNAv500883 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:10:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp-inforhc.pppn.etecsa.cu(10.10.0.2), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by mail, id smtpdAAAc.aWTb; Wed Jul 31 19:10:50 2002 Message-ID: <000401c238df$3e996d20$02000a0a@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9B57@mail.dstl.gov.uk> <002601c238ac$2dc7e2c0$09dc9384@jka> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Droitwich carrier Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:40:09 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Let's see if this gets to the list ! 100 percent modulated AM transmitter will show 22 percent power output increase during a sustained 100 percent modulation condition ! Processing modulation to achieve up to 140 percent positive peaks ( strongly assymetric modulation ) is standard practice, as well as segmented band processing ( i.e., having the audio frequency range between 50 Hz and 5000 Hz ( in Region II ) or between 50 Hz and 4500 Hz ( in Regions I and III ) processed separately in three, four, six and even eight sub-bands.... This can lead to a nightmare when trying to adjust the system for a "more competitive on the air signal ".... BUT, nothing in my opinion justifies DOWNWARD MODULATION..... amplitude modulation applied to a carrier wave properly, MUST ALWAYS result in an increase in antenna current ( more properly current delivered by the feeder to the antenna tuning network ) .... PSM transmitters, using minimum economic steps ( 48 steps ) will follow the audio waveform, but never as well as 64 or 96 step PSM modulators.... and PSM using fiber optic coupling to the power supply IGBT modules sometimes produce rather "funny"audio when for some odd reasons an IGBT module falls "" out of step "" !!! This may cause downward modulation for obvious reasons. AM modulation of present day broadcast transmitters faces yet another problem.... and it is no other than the type of radio receivers involved at the receiving end... Mainly small portables with tinny speakers, home table top radios ( a few of them ) in plastic cases and with poor low quality speakers, and automobile radios ( that in most cases are normally tuned to the FM broadcast band anyway ) The poor quality receivers then require a very special form of audio processing.... that includes the shaping of the audio frequency response curve, the above mentioned segmented band audio processing, and a lot of tweaking to achieve the MAXIMUM PUNCH demanded by station managers... Commercial stations with mostly voice content like talk shows do totally different processing than stations running the ""oldies"" format , and international shortwave broadcast stations, many of which are running on shoestring budgets sometimes don't even reach 100 percent modulation when the modulator tubes or "valves" are used until the filaments ( directly heated cathodes )are almost exhausted. Again, there is nothing like a well designed Class B high power modulator with enough reserve power to handle modulation peaks, working with a well designed Class C RF power amplifier, and both powered from a well regulated and well filtered HT power supply. The problem with that old technology is simply COST... something that is hard to forget... A Pulse Step Modulation AM transmitter with 64 IGBT modules, will NEVER require changing extremely expensive modulator and driver tubes that have a rather limited service life... Changing 5 or 10 IGBT modules per year is nothing compared to the cost of a pair of modulator tubes for even a small by today standards 50 kW AM transmitter. This has led even to "" conversions kits "" that replace the whole AM Class B modulator and three phase HT power supply with an ""adapter"" that turns a standard AM high level plate modulated transmitter into a PSM rig ! By the way, as more and more 1kw and 5 kW standard AM transmitters are seeing retirement they should become available for LF conversions that can be done easily and at low cost... Only problem is you will need an extension to the house to install them !!! 73 and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK Soon, hopefully, to be on LF !!!