From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13752 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 20:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 20:52:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13853 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 20:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 20:52:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rnm0-0007hR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:26:04 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rnlz-0007hM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:26:03 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-184.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.184] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16rm2s-0006qe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:35:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA767F0.8B9518B0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:48:00 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: RU6LWZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Acty 1525 UTC CQ DE RU6LWZ RU6LWZ K called by EU stns all day long but he cannot hear them for some reason. CQ on and off all day by ru6lwz but he has not replied to anyone 1839 UTC QRZ DE RU6LWZ K He must have heard something at last but did not respond to PA, OH or M0 calling him. Still a big signal from ED and the group here in Scarborough/IO94SH I must have a hundred screen shots !!! Its a pity Ed you did not listen on 7025 khz for some feedback and xband qso. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24357 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 18:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 18:42:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24581 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 18:42:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 18:42:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rljf-0007SX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rlje-0007SS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:15:30 +0100 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-191.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.191] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16rk0X-0001iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:24:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA74955.A7CC3BE8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:37:25 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: RU6LWZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ed you have been very strong all day with me on my loop antenna, stronger than some of the EU stations calling. I went to the shack at 1525 utc in the middle of the day and you have been solid copy all day. You seem to have a RX problem, you were not responding to anyone calling including myself on HF 7025 khz, maybe their signals were not strong enough. I did not call you on 137.7 khz because I am refurbishing and extending my vertical antenna system after the DX season. Stations heard when I was monitoring, IZ5ZPV, OM2TW very strong and some other weaker ones. GL and hope to work you soon. You would probably have been even stronger if my vertical had been available. 73 de Mal/G3KEV/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16753 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 18:23:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 18:23:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9710 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 18:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 18:23:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rlQZ-0007OZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:55:47 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rlQY-0007OU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:55:46 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-14.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.14] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16rjhO-0000jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:05:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA74488.F9F32279@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:16:56 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: RU6LWZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dropped into the shack at 1525 utc, daytime and RU6LWZ was booming in both aurally and visual. Signals very strong and solid all day no qsb etc. I took some screen shots but do not have a web page to display these shots. They could be sent if required as an attachment to those interested. There were a number of stations calling you ED but you did not respond to any of them when I was monitoring. I also called you on 7025 khz for a xband qso but you did not respond either. Seems your receiving was not working. There were some very strong EU stations calling and I am surprised that you did not copy them. The RX equipment here was a SPM-12 level meter RX with 20 hz b/width followed by a DSP audio unit and ARGO prog on PC.- 3 sec dot. Antenna 1600 sq meter loop paralledl tuned, optimum direction East/West. Hope ED you get your receiver fixed soon hi de Mal/G3KEV/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22450 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 14:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 14:58:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 1714 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 14:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 14:58:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16riHP-00071l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:34:07 +0100 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16riHO-00071f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:34:06 +0100 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 31159253 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:55:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c1d8c4$42cb64a0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <008401c1d7df$3b4ee6b0$0100a8c0@athlon> <001301c1d8bf$2a2e11e0$bf237bd5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: loops Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:56:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, > The type of capacitor to be recommended for matching loops is the Philips 386 > polypropylene series. If you are buying new capacitors, this would be a good approach. However, there are lots of transmitting micas on the surplus market, and since they are not hot sellers, the prices may be interesting. Many of the bakelite-cased caps have voltage and current ratings (often at several frequencies) printed on the case. Most of the older ceramic or glass-cased micas with aluminum end caps have their ratings displayed as well. Some of these things are sold as "door stops" at flea markets. The only caveat is to inspect the capacitor carefully. If there is any sign of it having overheated, reject it. A good RF impedance bridge can be used to screen out caps that have changed value, or have a high series resistance at RF. Most of the disappointments in this regard will be from really older mica caps, such as the "sulphur micas" from the 1920's and 30's. And, of course, don't drop one on your foot. It will cause you to have a bad Farad-day. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22551 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 14:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 14:19:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 17501 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 14:19:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 14:19:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rhfa-0006u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:55:02 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rhfY-0006tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:55:01 +0100 Received: from host213-123-35-191.btinternet.com ([213.123.35.191] helo=dave) by carbon with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16rg8e-00033k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:16:57 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c1d8bf$2a2e11e0$bf237bd5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <008401c1d7df$3b4ee6b0$0100a8c0@athlon> Subject: LF: Re: RE: loops Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:06:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The type of capacitor to be recommended for matching loops is the Philips 386 polypropylene series. Readily available in Europe in 10/22/47 values from 1nF to 100nF and above in 1kV and 2kV ratings. These are high pulse capacitors normally used in TV line output stages, they are also the best types to use for low pass filters in LF transmitters and anywhere else where high currents are involved. Silver mica types can be used for the fine tuning, as they will only take a fraction of the current of the parallel main capacitors. Information has been on my web site for about three years... 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6505 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 10:57:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 10:57:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7298 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16reWe-0006Ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:33:36 +0100 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16reWd-0006YV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:33:35 +0100 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA3ca6ea1b6da4 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:51:07 +0700 (OSS) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:30:21 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS today In-reply-to: <20020331101104.480103DDD@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John. On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, john sexton wrote: > Did anyone see anything of the Russian expedition? I have seen nothing despite continuous monitoring and seeing all the stations reported by others.
See oh2aq dx summit. There is some info. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29711 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 10:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 10:14:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20014 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 10:14:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 10:14:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rdq8-0006RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:49:40 +0100 Received: from nat3.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.5] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rdq7-0006RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:49:39 +0100 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 480103DDD; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:11:04 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS today From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020331101104.480103DDD@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:11:04 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All,
While looking out for UA6LV this morning saw YO2IS on 137.7 QRSS3 with good M/O signal.
Also saw what I thought at first must be a local, but turned out to be DF0WD. So strong on QRSS3 that "splashing" was occurring at start/end of carrier on's.
Conditions seem to be unusually good and after a dreadful day yesterday with so much local QRM (TVs etc) it is also quiet, must be the overnight rain.
Did anyone see anything of the Russian expedition? I have seen nothing despite continuous monitoring and seeing all the stations reported by others.
73 John, G4CNN

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14360 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 08:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 08:40:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7118 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 08:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 08:40:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rcNC-0006Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:15:42 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rcNB-0006Fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:15:41 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-50.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.50] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16rae4-0005R9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:25:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA6BCC1.238DA63A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:37:37 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: loops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Ashlock,William" wrote: > Mal, > > I believe what is going wrong is that many guys fail to start out with good > reference material and not 'going through the numbers' on paper. Secondly > they don't reach a basic understanding or 'feel' of how a loop performs by > getting the Rac down to an acceptable value consistent with the loop > dimensions and conductor type. They will be putting 99%+ of the power into > that Rac and it is all wasted in heat - so it better be as low as possible! > A low power level must be used for this experimentation because only a tiny > breakdown of a component will totally mess up results/conclusions/opinions. > Then comes the problem of selecting a capacitor that can handle the voltage > and current in the loop. At 1w my loops run up to 1.5A at 150v RMS... no > problem for plain old 500v micas. At 100w the current and voltage is 15A and > 1500v RMS. Getting tough? Darn right! - but doable. At 1000w you are at 47A Hi Bill This is terrific current 47Amps. To generate 1W erp some stations in the UK are running 2Kw or more to their small vertical antennas. With a loop it would be 94 Amps. In ZL to generate their permitted 5W erp from a loop it could be nearly 250 Amps. I think I will stick with my vertical antenna for transmitting and my couple of amps. I am using my loop for receive which is parallel resonated and it works very well, although I use the vertical for both tx/rx normally, but the loop is a good rx back up antenna. With your power limit you can get away with hanging the loop directly on the trees but with 47 - 250 amps I expect you would start a forest fire !! GL De Mal/G3KEV > > and 4700v. For those that are this crazy, the loop conductor will have to > use #6 or multiple runs of smaller size wire and the capacitor will have to > be...... well, something exotic! My gestimation is that at 1000w you will be > exceeding 1w ERP, anyway, so this likely a theoretical design. > > Bill A > > ********************************************************************* > This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for > the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus > Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use > local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. > ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28860 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 07:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 07:52:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25677 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2002 07:52:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2002 07:52:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rbYK-000692-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:23:08 +0100 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rbYI-00068x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.163.b5bd795 (30962) for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:44:27 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <163.b5bd795.29d8185a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:44:26 EST Subject: LF: Activity on Saturday To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear all,

Some QRSS activity on Saturday. Seen or heard close to 137.70 kHz:

IK2DED (not audible but "O" copy, thanks for qso, new one for DF0WD)
IK5ZPV (audible)
OH5UFO (audible)
M0BMU (very audible)
DL3FDO (extremely audible, but not worked ;-)

I met RU6LA on the DX cluster who had solid copy on IK5ZPV but no one else (on Saturday evening).

After returning home on early Sunday morning I heard the reason why so few UK stations were active.
Happy easter to everyone in spite of that very sad event.

73, Wolf
  DL4YHF + DF0WD  loc JO42FD

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 143 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 22:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 22:25:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 9798 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 22:25:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 22:25:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rSnE-00055t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:01:56 +0000 Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rSnC-00055m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:01:55 +0000 Received: from athlon (p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA07693 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:23:43 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp4.ihug.co.nz: Host p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130] claimed to be athlon Message-ID: <001301c1d839$97bfa7e0$0100a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <008401c1d7df$3b4ee6b0$0100a8c0@athlon> <001401c1d82c$08c25a40$b3b21bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: RE: loops Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:23:25 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob Vernall sed-- > > The other suitable type of capacitor is polypropylene. Tks Bob I couldn't remember the other capacitor type although I know I have a few here that you sent down a while back. Dave, ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17381 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 22:22:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 22:22:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 7911 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 22:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 22:22:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rSjX-0004yJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:58:07 +0000 Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rSjV-0004yE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:58:05 +0000 Received: from athlon (p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA07468 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:19:54 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp4.ihug.co.nz: Host p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130] claimed to be athlon Message-ID: <000a01c1d839$0c6b5220$0100a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: RE: loops Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:19:36 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bill The aluminium stuff is two runs, each one having 7 strands of 1.5 mm dia Al - the drop-lead stuff - there is a very similar looking 'product' that is much more common as it has a steel centre strand and is used for the long runs up and down roads etc. More physical strength but---- It has an outer insulation jacket (only the drop-lead stuff has this-the steel strand stuff has no insulation) and both runs are cable tied together all round the loop proper. It was the best I could come up with at the time I set the loop up-certainly far from ideal but has proven to be a useable compromise. I may try something else if a suitable quantity of something better turns up. Both runs are paralleled at the ends where they are fed, which happens to be in one bottom corner of the loop. I use a transformer to feed it- uses a pair of old B&W TV line output cores with 14 turns on the primary and 2 on the secondary for a nominal 50 ohm feed point. The loop is not very big- about 50 feet long and 25 feet high with the bottom about four feet off the ground. Inductance of around 64 uH. It is down the back of the yard behind garage and other out buildings. A top-loaded vertical was just not practical here as the yard is so small. But bigger things are afoot -- elsewhere! My LF linear uses a pair of 813s in passive grid (200 ohm resistor from grids to ground-xfmr coupled down to 50 ohms input with 'yet another' LOPT xfmr core) with drive derived screen voltage ( as per G2DAF linear, if anyone remembers it!) - about 50 watts of drive gives me a measured 800 watts out on SSB- I use the 813s with the graphite anodes- the more usual metal plate anode ones won't go the distance at all! Have to throttle things back a bit on near 100 % duty cycle modes- QRSS etc- more like 500 watts out. This gives me comparable performance up and down ZL to a top loaded vertical of similar height on an average sized yard with only 100 watts in the antenna. The price for using a loop I guess. But it IS totally non-critical as regards weather etc. Tuning is on the nose (very narrow 27 dB return loss null around 180 kHz) almost regardless of anything. I managed to shift it about 100Hz putting a pipe against one of the sides to see what effect it might have. Somewhat brutal!. Cheers Dave, ZL3FJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashlock,William" To: Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 7:11 AM Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: loops > Hi Dave, > > Many thanks for the comeback with you loop parameters. Have a few questions > about these: > > >Loop conductor is two runs in parallel of 7/1.5mm aluminium-- your bog > >standard 11 kV overhead drop-lead stuff. > > I assume this is two strips of 7mm x 1.5mm Al? The two are running in > parallel, but assume they are they also connected in parallel at their ends > rather than in series? > > >and effective resistance at 180kHz of 0.99 ohms - a bit on the high side, > > I suppose the skin effect losses are pretty high with a 1.5mm thickness > since this is about 10 times the skin depth. This is what makes larger diam > solid or stranded conductors not worth much (unless Litzed.) What are the > dimensions of your loop and how high is the lower portion above ground? > > Bill A > > > > ********************************************************************* > This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for > the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus > Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use > local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. > ********************************************************************* > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29798 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 20:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 20:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 14514 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 20:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 20:52:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rRGt-0004lI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:24:27 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rRGs-0004lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:24:26 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.179]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020330204548.ONHP8792.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:48 +1200 Message-ID: <001401c1d82c$08c25a40$b3b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <008401c1d7df$3b4ee6b0$0100a8c0@athlon> Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: loops Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:34:30 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, In your reply you mentioned: > For the usual 500 volt 4700 pf polystyrene ( or the current 'equivalent > material- polycarbonate??) capacitor this means enough wired - > a) in parallel --- to keep the current in each to a safe figure- 1 amp seems > to be about all the polystyrenes will sustain long term, and > b) in series---- to withstand the applied PEAK voltage. > So a large array of caps in series/parallel is what you wind up with. Not > pretty, but functional. The other suitable type of capacitor is polypropylene. Andrew ZL2BBJ operated a single turn transmitting loop for 180 kHz for several years before shifting QTH late last year, and has yet to set up for transmitting on LF, but he is thinking of another loop rather than a top loaded vertical. As you have, he also made a series/parallel network of capacitors, his Mark 1 ATU with polystyrene capacitors, and popped a few till current was fanned out to be less than 1 amp per capacitor. His Mark 2 network used polypropylene capacitors, as we found a surplus source of 1.5 and 2 kV capacitors. For QSY I think he has wafer switches to do coarse and fine tuning, and noting that several wafers are needed to keep current per contact within ratings. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29681 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 20:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 20:52:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 14485 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 20:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 20:51:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rRGw-0004lO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:24:30 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rRGu-0004lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:24:28 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.179]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020330204553.ONHY8792.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:53 +1200 Message-ID: <001501c1d82c$0bdedc80$b3b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: loop inductance Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:46:15 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I've not been following all bulletins on loops, but a comment on frequency range should be made for any "inductance formula". Because of "long" wavelengths at LF, most amateur loops are "small" in terms of wavelengths, so a "constant current" approximation can usually be made. When the loop diameter is a significant part of a wavelength, the current distribution starts to have "standing waves" and the radiation characteristics (impedance and pattern) are quite different to the electrically small loop. For a multi-turn loop, inter-turn capacitance also modifies the "inductance" at higher frequencies, so there comes a time when a single turn loop (possibly with parallel wires) is the better performer. I'm not sure where the regions are that low frequency inductance formulae need correction, and similarly for multi-turns. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15970 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 19:24:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 19:24:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2066 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rPvu-0004Yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:58:42 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rPvt-0004Yi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:58:41 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17661 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 19:20:37 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-11.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 19:20:37 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:28:10 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: loops Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:11:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, Many thanks for the comeback with you loop parameters. Have a few questions about these: >Loop conductor is two runs in parallel of 7/1.5mm aluminium-- your bog >standard 11 kV overhead drop-lead stuff. I assume this is two strips of 7mm x 1.5mm Al? The two are running in parallel, but assume they are they also connected in parallel at their ends rather than in series? >and effective resistance at 180kHz of 0.99 ohms - a bit on the high side, I suppose the skin effect losses are pretty high with a 1.5mm thickness since this is about 10 times the skin depth. This is what makes larger diam solid or stranded conductors not worth much (unless Litzed.) What are the dimensions of your loop and how high is the lower portion above ground? Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21325 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:41:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:41:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26639 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:40:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rPFt-0004Sr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:15:17 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rPFs-0004Sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:15:16 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 1755 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:37:05 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-12.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:37:05 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:44:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: "'Alexander S. Yurkov'" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loop inductance Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:28:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alex, Here goes: L(uh) = .008s((ln(1.414s/2d)+.38) Where s = the length of a side in cm; d = diameter of conductor in cm; ln = natural logarithm This is for a single turn square loop. With the final (insignificant) term removed, that isn't so hairy after all! Bill A -----Original Message----- From: Alexander S. Yurkov [mailto:fitec@omskcity.com] Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 10:42 AM To: Ashlock,William Subject: loop inductance Hi, Bill. On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Ashlock,William wrote: > I use the formulas for inductance found in the loop section all late > editions of the ARRL Antenna Books (too hairy to show here; the formula > ), and it IS in cm. The accuracy is fairly close to my measured values. > For example, I calculate 109uh for a #12 (2mm) square loop having 50'x 50' > dimensions. The third term in the formulas will turn out to be insignificant > for loops this big. Unfortunely I have not such a book. Would you sent me this formula? 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14305 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:07:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7960 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:07:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:07:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOlA-0004M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:43:32 +0000 Received: from mta40-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.93] helo=fep40-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOl9-0004Ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:43:31 +0000 Received: from base ([213.45.252.145]) by fep40-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020330180525.CYSI10963.fep40-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:05:25 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 137.7 khz Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:04:51 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: <3CA5C92E.DECB66A4@netscapeonline.co.uk> In-reply-to: <3CA5C92E.DECB66A4@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02032819045102.15108@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Saturday 30 March 2002 15:18, you wrote: > Heard several stations active this morning on qrs.M0BMU, OK2DED, Mal, i suppose it was IK2DED, Giulio is trasmitting all day long with a quite nice signal. I suppose he is using the big tower. '73 and happy Easter to all. Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13455 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:05:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:05:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6726 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOj5-0004La-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:41:23 +0000 Received: from mta40-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.93] helo=fep40-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOj4-0004LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:41:22 +0000 Received: from base ([213.45.252.145]) by fep40-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with SMTP id <20020330180303.CYOY10963.fep40-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:03:03 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: (no subject) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:02:29 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7; format=flowed References: <3CA5F382.10C38242@otenet.gr> In-reply-to: <3CA5F382.10C38242@otenet.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02032819022901.15108@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Saturday 30 March 2002 18:18, you wrote: > Dear, > Yesterday afternoon 29-3-02/17:40Z I received IK5ZPW calling > at 136.682 Kcs QRSS3 and I need his Locator to calculate the path and > his e-mail to send him the spectrogram. > Many thanks and 73s Alex SV8QG Alex, the trasmission you received was probably mine, the correct call is IK5ZPV and my locator is JN53KX Pistoia, a small town about 30 kM west of Florence. My e-mail is: valerio@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it Many thanks for report, hope to meet you soon on LF. '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4763 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 17:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 17:32:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17096 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 17:32:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 17:32:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOCP-0004Gb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:07:37 +0000 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rOCO-0004GW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:07:36 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id MAA24542 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:29:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:28:35 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QTH Locator IK5ZPV is JN53KX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203301228_MC3-F7D3-FCEA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alex >Yesterday afternoon 29-3-02/17:40Z I received IK5ZPW calling >at 136.682 Kcs QRSS3 and I need his Locator to calculate the path and >his e-mail to send him the spectrogram. >Many thanks and 73s Alex SV8QG< ... I assume you received IK5ZPV? His QTH locator is JN53KX. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11539 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 15:21:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 15:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15558 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 15:21:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 15:21:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rMAP-0003yi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:57:25 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr ([195.170.0.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rMAN-0003yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:57:24 +0000 Received: from otenet.gr (myti530-a072.otenet.gr [212.205.251.200]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2UFIlQB010955 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:19:18 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3CA5F382.10C38242@otenet.gr> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:18:58 +0000 From: "Alex Deligiannis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear, Yesterday afternoon 29-3-02/17:40Z I received IK5ZPW calling at 136.682 Kcs QRSS3 and I need his Locator to calculate the path and his e-mail to send him the spectrogram. Many thanks and 73s Alex SV8QG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20743 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 14:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 14:22:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15787 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 14:22:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 14:22:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rLF8-0003qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:58:14 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rLF7-0003qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:58:13 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-216.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.216] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16rJW0-0002Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:07:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA5C92E.DECB66A4@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:18:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 137.7 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heard several stations active this morning on qrs.M0BMU, OK2DED, OH1TN(UFO), OM2TW All good loud signals with me would have been perfect copy on normal CW. 73 De Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11501 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 13:08:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 13:08:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 459 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 13:07:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 13:07:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rK4u-0003hI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:43:36 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rK4t-0003hD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:43:35 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA3ca5b77e0c35 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:02:54 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:42:11 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: UA6 activity... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hellow Group. Has anybody any info on UA6 activity? Or may be sombody has hear them? I have increase my RX sensativity and build loop antenna but nothin hear yet (13-00Z). I hope to hear them in normal CW... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11768 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 11:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 11:44:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 2868 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 11:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 11:44:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rIhM-0003Uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:12 +0000 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.8] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16rIhK-0003Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:10 +0000 Received: from athlon (p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA14723 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:37:01 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host p2-max12.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.226.130] claimed to be athlon Message-ID: <008401c1d7df$3b4ee6b0$0100a8c0@athlon> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: loops Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:40 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill A sed--- For those that are this crazy, the loop conductor will have to > use #6 or multiple runs of smaller size wire and the capacitor will have to > be...... well, something exotic! The 'Crazy' I agree with. But not necessarily 'exotic' in regard to loop capacitors. Certainly it MUST be built so as to keep components operating within their ratings. For the usual 500 volt 4700 pf polystyrene ( or the current 'equivalent material- polycarbonate??) capacitor this means enough wired - a) in parallel --- to keep the current in each to a safe figure- 1 amp seems to be about all the polystyrenes will sustain long term, and b) in series---- to withstand the applied PEAK voltage. So a large array of caps in series/parallel is what you wind up with. Not pretty, but functional. In my case I run up to about thirty amps in the loop so with around 15000pf needed for resonance I have about 90 of the 4700pf/500 volt units in series parallel. A 2000 pf air spaced variable serves as fine tuning. At 3kv rating it's a bit under rated but hasn't failed yet--- in several years of 180 kHz operation. Loop conductor is two runs in parallel of 7/1.5mm aluminium-- your bog standard 11 kV overhead drop-lead stuff. Loop DC resistance of 34 milliohms and effective resistance at 180kHz of 0.99 ohms - a bit on the high side, but quite practical given we use SSB quite a bit down here in ZL and anything lower would start seriously negating the need for a filter in the SSB exciter! Loop tx efficiency isn't always a prime consideration. Dave, ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11406 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 00:07:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 00:07:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25280 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 00:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 00:07:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r7qU-0002F3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:39:54 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r7qS-0002Ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:39:52 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 535 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2002 00:01:48 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-6.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2002 00:01:48 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:09:22 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loops Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:52:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >The only accurate way to measure loop inductance for an installation is >to use an inductance meter. Calculations do not take into account the >loop environment like trees and other objects in the vicinity. 100s of hours of measurements on my part indicate that trees have next to no effect on TX loop performance, including inductance values. All my loops amount to a conductor placed over the top of, and resting on at least 6 trees. The ground has some effect on the inductance, but less than 10%. >The same applies to natural resonant frequency, the loop or any other antenna >needs to be measured in situ, calculations for real situations can be >totally different from theoritical values. I find the resonant frequency also comes out very close to the theoretical value once the inductance is calculated and/or measured. >This is where a lot are going wrong on LF. I believe what is going wrong is that many guys fail to start out with good reference material and not 'going through the numbers' on paper. Secondly they don't reach a basic understanding or 'feel' of how a loop performs by getting the Rac down to an acceptable value consistent with the loop dimensions and conductor type. They will be putting 99%+ of the power into that Rac and it is all wasted in heat - so it better be as low as possible! A low power level must be used for this experimentation because only a tiny breakdown of a component will totally mess up results/conclusions/opinions. Then comes the problem of selecting a capacitor that can handle the voltage and current in the loop. At 1w my loops run up to 1.5A at 150v RMS... no problem for plain old 500v micas. At 100w the current and voltage is 15A and 1500v RMS. Getting tough? Darn right! - but doable. At 1000w you are at 47A and 4700v. For those that are this crazy, the loop conductor will have to use #6 or multiple runs of smaller size wire and the capacitor will have to be...... well, something exotic! My gestimation is that at 1000w you will be exceeding 1w ERP, anyway, so this likely a theoretical design. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 666 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 22:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 22:02:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27462 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 22:02:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 22:02:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r5x5-0001w8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:38:35 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r5x4-0001w3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:38:34 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-130.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.130] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16r4E0-0006S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:47:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA4E3D3.F9EE837A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:59:47 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: qrs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some acty tonight on 137.7 khz. DF6NM a solid signal on fsk, another stn slightly lower in freq sending the odd letter, having trouble with qrs, then disappeared. Another weak signal maybe ED testing from UA6. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5665 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 21:51:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 16495 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 21:51:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r5lS-0001tQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:26:34 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r5lR-0001tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:26:33 +0000 Received: from host213-1-151-130.btinternet.com ([213.1.151.130] helo=oldpc) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16r4EX-0000GB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:48:30 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c1d76d$294e77e0$829701d5@oldpc> From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" To: "RSGB LF Reflector" Subject: LF: QRSSreception Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:00:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Heard QRSS on 135.7 at 1740 29.3 02. Reasonable signal strength, via Crawley vhf relay. Sounded like manually sent. Not really readable because of variable timing of dots, dashes, spacings and some breaks. Like G3KEV, I wonder if it was UA6LV or RU6LA de Lech G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17760 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 20:52:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 20:52:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22772 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 20:52:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 20:52:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r4ph-0001lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:26:53 +0000 Received: from tomts17.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.71] helo=tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r4pg-0001l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:26:53 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.208.85.192]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020329204847.YCMZ27793.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:48:47 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329152516.02d08bf0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:35:19 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: LF: loop resonant frequency In-reply-to: <3CA4B3CB.46478EC7@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tuning a large loop to resonance and measuring the loop inductance is easy without any instruments but a receiver and a calculator. Just couple to the loop with a toroid and put a silver mica bank of capacitors in series with the loop. Feed a receiver and tune for peak in the noise. Once you find a noise peak the standard resonance formula with the known capacitance will tell you the inductance of the loop. To check it out, and what I did here, was to setup a resonance on 138.83 and another on 135.922. The mathematics works very precisely down to less than 30 pf ambiguity, in my case just about half a kHz. The difference is a small plug in bunch of small value silver mica capacitors. Larry VA3LK I did not originate this, Bill, VE2IQ did many years ago. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20017 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 19:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 19:18:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9959 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 19:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 19:18:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r3MR-0001XI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:52:35 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r3MQ-0001XD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:52:34 +0000 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-56.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.56] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16r1dL-0000SO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:01:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA4B3CB.46478EC7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:34:51 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The only accurate way to measure loop inductance for an installation is to use an inductance meter. Calculations do not take into account the loop environment like trees and other objects in the vicinity. The same applies to natural resonant frequency, the loop or any other antenna needs to be measured in situ, calculations for real situations can be totally different from theoritical values. This is where a lot are going wrong on LF. The theoritical and practical results including power measurements are often totally wrong when calculated as opposed to being measured in the field. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5828 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 19:17:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 19:17:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9523 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 19:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 19:17:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r3MU-0001XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:52:38 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r3MT-0001XK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:52:37 +0000 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-56.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.56] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16r1dP-0000SU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:01:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA4BCE5.8A398069@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:13:41 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: ua6lv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ed Was that u testing on 137.7 khz tonight at 1857/1901 utc. There was a signal visible at 3 sec dot length but broken up. I got fig 6 and a couple of letters, nothing conclusive. It ended at 1901 utc. 73 de Mal/G3KEV- IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22579 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 17:41:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 17:41:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10240 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 17:41:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 17:41:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r1qh-0001LG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:15:43 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r1qg-0001LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:15:42 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 22796 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 17:37:37 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-12.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 17:37:37 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:45:12 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: transmitting loops Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:28:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, >I am trying to find out is how one can calculate the loop >inductance of a big transmitting loop (based on the dimensions). >I found 2 formulas for the calculation of a 1 turn coil, but both mention >the dimensions in cm, so I don't know if they are usable for big loops. >Does someone has a formula that has proven to be usable for big loops? I use the formulas for inductance found in the loop section all late editions of the ARRL Antenna Books (too hairy to show here; the formula ), and it IS in cm. The accuracy is fairly close to my measured values. For example, I calculate 109uh for a #12 (2mm) square loop having 50'x 50' dimensions. The third term in the formulas will turn out to be insignificant for loops this big. I also checked this formula against my 1/2" 50' x 50' cooper pipe loop inductance and it came out close to the measured 84uh. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11065 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 17:07:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 17:07:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17371 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 17:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 17:07:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r1Jo-0001Em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:44 +0000 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r1Jn-0001Eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:43 +0000 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16qzmo-0003nZ-04; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:34 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.17]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16qzmk-1h5hrMC; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:30 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <19519.020329@dx.ru> <3.0.1.16.20020329161612.3cb72752@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: Re: LF: transmitting loops X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:30 +0100 Message-ID: <16qzmk-1h5hrMC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe schrieb: > Hello all, > > I am still collecting information on loop antennas for my antenna webpage. > One of the things I am trying to find out is how one can calculate the loop > inductance of a big transmitting loop (based on the dimensions). > I found 2 formulas for the calculation of a 1 turn coil, but both mention > the dimensions in cm, so I don't know if they are usable for big loops. > I have 2 questions : > > 1. Does someone has a formula that has proven to be usable for big loops. > > 2. To all (ex-)loop users : in case you ever determined the inductance of > your loop I would appreciate it if you could let me know the inductance and > dimension of your loop(s). > > A nice easter weekend (with a lot of chocolate eggs) to all, > > 73 Rik ON7YD Hi Rik, guess you know the calculators "Loop-Antennas for VLF" by DF8ZR and "rjeloop 1 and rjeloop 2" by G4FGQ. with some tricks all three confirm the measuring results conc my two turn TX-LOOP (65m horiz and 12 m veric (720uH)). regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13912 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 16:55:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 16:55:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2944 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 16:54:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 16:54:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r176-0001Bq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:28:36 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16r175-0001Bl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:28:35 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA3ca49ae21e7b for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:48:34 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:27:43 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: transmitting loops In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020329161612.3cb72752@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Rik and Group. On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, Rik Strobbe wrote: > 1. Does someone has a formula that has proven to be usable for big loops. About 7 years ago I have derived formula for circular loop. It is very simple L=D*N^2. Where D is diameter im meters, L - inductance in microhenry, N is turns number. The formula seems to be very aproximate. I have not test it acurance. But I sucsesfully use it for aproximate estimations. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29031 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 15:27:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 15:27:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17400 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 15:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 15:27:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qzj2-0000tD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:59:40 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qzj1-0000t8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:59:39 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2TFL53k098308 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:21:05 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020329161612.3cb72752@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:16:12 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: transmitting loops In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020329114803.3c979876@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <19519.020329@dx.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I am still collecting information on loop antennas for my antenna webpage. One of the things I am trying to find out is how one can calculate the loop inductance of a big transmitting loop (based on the dimensions). I found 2 formulas for the calculation of a 1 turn coil, but both mention the dimensions in cm, so I don't know if they are usable for big loops. I have 2 questions : 1. Does someone has a formula that has proven to be usable for big loops. 2. To all (ex-)loop users : in case you ever determined the inductance of your loop I would appreciate it if you could let me know the inductance and dimension of your loop(s). A nice easter weekend (with a lot of chocolate eggs) to all, 73 Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4021 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 10:57:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 10:57:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20353 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 10:57:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 10:57:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qvXX-0000Ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:31:31 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qvXW-0000MM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:31:30 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2TAqtQ8023852 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:52:56 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020329114803.3c979876@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:48:03 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: 1-st RUS LF DX-pedition #2 In-reply-to: <19519.020329@dx.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Ed, receiving DCF39 with 9+40dB is a very good sign. But as you mention the large antenna will pick up a lot of strong signals causing intermodulation in teh RX. Although bringing the antenna to resonance (by the loading coil) will attenuate the out-of-band signals (but probably not DCF39) it will be usefull to have an attenuator between the antenna and RX. At home, where I use a 14m high and 22m long inv-L, I have found out that 20dB attenuation give the best result. So with the big antenna you might need up to 40dB (a step attenuator migh be best) , without any attenuattion you will probably just hear a 'boiling pot'. Good luck with the 136kHz tests, looking foward to work you in QRSS or DFCW. 73, Rik ON7YD At 12:27 29/03/02 +0300, you wrote: >Hello rsgb_lf_group! > >Last news (8z 29 mar): > >- March, 28 at last have got the sanction to work to a tower and in 17z the >LF ANT already was groundless > >- ANT should be simplified : > 110m long > | > V | > h=~90m->----------- |<- h=131m > \ | > \ | > 150m long-> \ | > \ | > \ | > TX O | >Wires of the ANT - Litz-wire 175x0.1 (~2mm - ekw Cu diam ~1.5mm)abt 280m >long over 5mm Polypropilene cord 470m long > >- DFC39 it became audible on S 59+40 without any coil, filters, amplifiers >and ATT. >The voltage on the end (without coil)of ANT below has made ~4V >Cross-modulation is very strong. > >- Now we make updating Band-pass and coil (diam ~40cm, Litz-wire > 175x0.1mm abt 700-1000 mkH > >- Have strengthened team Serge UA6LFQ - Let's try to organize round-the-clock > work > >- If know Russian and there is a Russian coding in Windows can inform me on a >pager on http://crypt.rnd.ru for 29600 (rus or engl) > or via e-mail: vesso@crypt.rnd.ru Subject: 29600 In body: text > Pager will be used in time DX-pedition > >- First QSO will be RU6LWZ - call our club > >73! Ed RU6LA mailto:ed@dx.ru > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1480 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 09:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 09:32:16 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1987 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 09:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 09:32:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16quCk-0000Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:05:58 +0000 Received: from nort.infotecstt.ru ([80.68.3.204] helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16quCi-0000Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:05:57 +0000 Received: from ed.dx (ed.dx [10.0.1.11]) by relay.dx.ru (8.9.3-PM01/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA36937 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:27:50 +0300 (MSK) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:27:53 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <19519.020329@dx.ru> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 1-st RUS LF DX-pedition #2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello rsgb_lf_group! Last news (8z 29 mar): - March, 28 at last have got the sanction to work to a tower and in 17z the LF ANT already was groundless - ANT should be simplified : 110m long | V | h=~90m->----------- |<- h=131m \ | \ | 150m long-> \ | \ | \ | TX O | Wires of the ANT - Litz-wire 175x0.1 (~2mm - ekw Cu diam ~1.5mm)abt 280m long over 5mm Polypropilene cord 470m long - DFC39 it became audible on S 59+40 without any coil, filters, amplifiers and ATT. The voltage on the end (without coil)of ANT below has made ~4V Cross-modulation is very strong. - Now we make updating Band-pass and coil (diam ~40cm, Litz-wire 175x0.1mm abt 700-1000 mkH - Have strengthened team Serge UA6LFQ - Let's try to organize round-the-clock work - If know Russian and there is a Russian coding in Windows can inform me on a pager on http://crypt.rnd.ru for 29600 (rus or engl) or via e-mail: vesso@crypt.rnd.ru Subject: 29600 In body: text Pager will be used in time DX-pedition - First QSO will be RU6LWZ - call our club 73! Ed RU6LA mailto:ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29482 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 05:13:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 05:13:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10851 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2002 05:13:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2002 05:13:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qq7N-0008Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:09 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qq7L-0008Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:08 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA3ca3f4d934cf for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:00:09 +0600 (OS) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:39:17 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beeps In-reply-to: <3CA355EA.DFB2D48E@diolog.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by astral.omskcity.com id LAA3ca3f4d934cf Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Fabian and Group. I can't imagine how computer or TV set can generate such a regular continuos (many hours) signal. On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Fabian Kurz wrote: > Hi Alex, > > I hear similar QRM with a certain 'beat' on LF sometimes which most likely > come from a noisy computer or a TV set... > 73, Fabian dj1yfk > > "Alexander S. Yurkov" schrieb: > > > Hellow, Group. > > > > All this evening (now 15-55 Z, 21-55 local) I hear someone > > "beep-beep-beep.." near 137.6 kHz. I can't define frequensy exectly yet. > > There is about 90 "beeps" per minute. What can it be? 73 de RA9MB/????????? http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7655 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 21:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 21:17:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 7140 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qikc-0007Ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:10 +0000 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qika-0007Nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:09 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia19.phoenix.it [213.82.97.83]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g2SLE3N09327 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:14:04 +0100 Message-ID: <002b01c19e09$7c7018e0$536152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3CA2EF81.94F50D1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: SPM- 12 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:13:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, you wrote: > Someone posting here recently said their SPM-12 did not have a freq > locking facility. > My SPM12 has a phased locked loop, with coarse and fine tuning as well > as the main tuning dial, maybe there are various specifications for the > same models. > It has a 10 khz IF output plus other outputs. I built a product det and > the whole unit works well and is very sensitive and selective down to 25 > hz. I also use an ext DSP unit. The whole package makes a great LF > receiver and works well also with my receiving loop antenna. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV yes, Mal, i have discovered the phased locked loop later, now i have made some test and i found that the SPM 12 is a very good receiver for LF, and also the stability with PLL is good, also it has a very low phase noise and the option button "low noise input" work very well. This unit was bought here 2 weeks ago in hamfest for 170 Euro!! 73 and see you on the band. Giulio IK2DED. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28861 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 18:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 18:44:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18389 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 18:44:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 18:44:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qgMd-0006uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:19:15 +0000 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qgMb-0006uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:19:14 +0000 Received: from [172.19.20.61] (helo=mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16qepY-0003Xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:41:00 +0100 Received: from p3e9e9cda.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.158.156.218] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdomng0.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 16qepX-0004ZO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:40:59 +0100 Message-ID: <3CA355EA.DFB2D48E@diolog.de> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:42:02 +0100 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beeps References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alex, I hear similar QRM with a certain 'beat' on LF sometimes which most likely come from a noisy computer or a TV set... 73, Fabian dj1yfk "Alexander S. Yurkov" schrieb: > Hellow, Group. > > All this evening (now 15-55 Z, 21-55 local) I hear someone > "beep-beep-beep.." near 137.6 kHz. I can't define frequensy exectly yet. > There is about 90 "beeps" per minute. What can it be? > > 73 de RA9MB/Alex > http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1998 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 18:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 18:32:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9418 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 18:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 18:32:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qgAY-0006rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:46 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qgAX-0006rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:45 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-118.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16qeRS-0001GM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:16:06 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA35F7C.E0106A9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:22:52 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: compaq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Does anyone know how to get into BIOS setup on a Compaq Armada 1560D I have tried all the usual tricks like press Delete key after switch on and other keys that normal work on other computers but so far no luck. I do not have any manuals for the machine. It works well but I need to make some changes in bios setup. Any help appreciated. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11910 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 17:59:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 17:59:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23927 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 17:59:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 17:59:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qfYt-0006lW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:27:51 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qfYs-0006lR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:27:50 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16qe1z-0006og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:49:47 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16qe1y-0006S7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:49:46 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328173133.00aca3d0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: LF this weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I hope to Be QRV on LF over the holiday weekend at various times, especially watching out for the UA6 operation. Hope to see you there. I won't have E-mail until Tuesday, however. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9723 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 16:08:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 16:08:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 23181 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 16:06:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 16:06:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qdrB-0006WR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:38:37 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qdrA-0006WM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:38:36 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA3ca33dfc65c7 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:56 +0600 (OS) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:39:07 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beeps Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hellow, Group. All this evening (now 15-55 Z, 21-55 local) I hear someone "beep-beep-beep.." near 137.6 kHz. I can't define frequensy exectly yet. There is about 90 "beeps" per minute. What can it be? 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1706 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8903 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 15:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 15:06:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qcxj-0006Ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:41:19 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qcxi-0006NZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:41:18 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.194.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32706 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2SF3Ae70026 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:03:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3CA3310D.6C733194@usa.net> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:45 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Jason V0.93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, Jason 0.93 has been just uploaded to the weaksignals Web site. The signalling format is compatible with 0.92 The main changes are : - A different demodulation method (zero IF) has been used, which makes unnecessary the Low Speed mode. Now the program works ok on a 150 MHz Pentium, with no compromises. - The program now remembers from session to session the various settings - Tweaking of the decode routine, with (maybe) a fraction of a dB in decoding gain. - Minor adjustments to the code and bug fixes. To download it : http://www.weaksignals.com Reports are welcome. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1176 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 12:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 12:04:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15972 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 12:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 12:04:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qa69-0005y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:37:49 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qa68-0005y0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:37:48 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-195.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.195] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16qYN6-0004pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:47:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA2EF81.94F50D1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:25:05 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: SPM- 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Someone posting here recently said their SPM-12 did not have a freq locking facility. My SPM12 has a phased locked loop, with coarse and fine tuning as well as the main tuning dial, maybe there are various specifications for the same models. It has a 10 khz IF output plus other outputs. I built a product det and the whole unit works well and is very sensitive and selective down to 25 hz. I also use an ext DSP unit. The whole package makes a great LF receiver and works well also with my receiving loop antenna. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1188 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 12:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 12:04:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15975 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 12:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 12:04:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qa62-0005xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:37:42 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qa61-0005xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:37:41 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-195.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.195] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16qYMy-0004p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:47:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3CA1FA3E.12188A3D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:58:39 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: F6CWA References: <001101c1d512$0a2f8aa0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > Dear all. > > Hubert, F6CWA, informs me that he will be on 136.53 KHz on 30/31 March and > 1st April, also 11th - 14th April. > > He is down near Nyons (JN24MF) so is quite a long way South. > > Look out for him. I first worked Hube on 2/3/02 and several times since. He puts out a nice signal on 136 khz but he has a 30 metre high antenna tower. G3KEV > > > 73 > Dave > G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28236 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 08:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 08:20:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 22463 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 08:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 08:20:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qWXV-0005Tm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:49:50 +0000 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qWXU-0005Th-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:49:49 +0000 Received: (qmail 53633 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2002 08:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 28 Mar 2002 08:11:40 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c1d630$3d697420$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: QRSS Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:12:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: FYG you can take look at my "Gallery": http://www.nagano.cz/~ok1fig/s_galler.htm There are also screenshots of DFCW there. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:33 AM Subject: LF: QRSS > > Hi, Group. > > Some guy told me that QRSS mode uses frequency shift keying not amplitude > keying. Is it true? > > 73 de RA9MB/Alex > http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22516 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2002 17:42:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 17:42:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6797 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2002 17:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 17:42:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qIuZ-0003nI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:43 +0000 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qIuY-0003mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:42 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16qHNZ-0005TN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:33 +0100 Received: from p3e9e9cc4.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.158.156.196] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16qHNZ-0006D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:38:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3CA1F5C8.5A0C0370@diolog.de> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:39:37 +0100 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alex, QRSS itself is just very slow CW, but there is also DFCW, which uses FSK of (depending on the speed) up to some Hz. A Dash in DFCW is the higher frequency, a Dot is the lower frequency and Dash/Dot have the same length. 73, Fabian dj1yfk www.8q7zz.com/ "Alexander S. Yurkov" schrieb: > Hi, Group. > > Some guy told me that QRSS mode uses frequency shift keying not amplitude > keying. Is it true? > > 73 de RA9MB/Alex > http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6691 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2002 17:10:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 17:10:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 941 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2002 17:10:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 17:10:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qIEr-0003g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:37 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16qIEq-0003g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:36 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA3ca1f92641f5 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:53:58 +0600 (OS) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:33:05 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Group. Some guy told me that QRSS mode uses frequency shift keying not amplitude keying. Is it true? 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13191 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 22:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 22:07:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 6228 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 22:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 22:07:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16q0Z2-0001E3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:41:16 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16q0Z1-0001Dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:41:15 +0000 Received: from host217-35-46-119.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.46.119] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16pz27-0003RF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c1d512$0a2f8aa0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: F6CWA Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:03:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Hubert, F6CWA, informs me that he will be on 136.53 KHz on 30/31 March and 1st April, also 11th - 14th April. He is down near Nyons (JN24MF) so is quite a long way South. Look out for him. 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13940 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 20:14:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 20:14:02 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23816 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 20:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 20:13:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pymy-00010m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:47:32 +0000 Received: from nort.infotecstt.ru ([80.68.3.204] helo=relay.dx.ru) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pymv-00010h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:47:30 +0000 Received: from ed.dx (ed.dx [10.0.1.11]) by relay.dx.ru (8.9.3-PM01/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06263 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +0300 (MSK) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:09:34 +0300 From: "Ed Lesnichy" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.35) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 Organization: Ed Lesnichy X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <8964.020326@dx.ru> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 1-st Russian LF DX-pedition #1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.dx.ru id XAA06263 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hellow LF Group. As already informed Giri DK8KW abt 1-st Russian LF DX-pedition: RU6LA "... and UA6LV are preparing the first Russian DX-pedition on LF, they intend to be QRV during the WPX contest weekend March 30-31, 2002, using a 135 m high antenna tower with 100 Watts output. His QTH is near Taganrog/Russia, the locator is KN97LN." For today (26 mar, 20z) I can inform the following: - main "weapon" of DX-pedition - big LF ant - yet did not manage to be mounted the ant on 135? because of the extremely adverse weather. - since Wednesday the wind should abate, therefore since tomorrow's day we shall try to mount the LF ant Weather in KN97L can be looked on www.dx.ru - click on icon "Weather in Tagangog". Though there and in russian, but I think what to understand it is possible. Force of a wind (in m/sec) is the second from below, dates - above (night-violet, morning - red, day - yellow, evening - green) - there were some more small technical problems on the equipment, but hope we of them we shall decide successfully - in time DX-pedition we shall have DX-cluster (call RU6LA or UA6LV) RN6BN.73.ru 195.161.45.20 AR-cluster , or dx.aaanet.ru 80.80.100.58 CLX-cluster - our equipments: band-pass filter(-40db w-4kc)+TS-850, PA-100w output I assume also to use Beverage (1100m long and 2m Up) - will try in QRSS around 137.700 kHz (3 second dots), and it is possible CW if there will be in the order a reception As we novice in LF (yet did not see on ARGO any LF-signals), are possible some overlays in TX/RX - you do not judge us too strictly ;-))) Our gratitude to all who helped us in preparation DX-pedition, in understanding LF-philosophy and techinics (RA9MB, DK8KW, OM2TW, I2PHD, RV6LRL, UA6LDD) After ending DX-pedition I assume to place the report on it on www.dx.ru Widely I open eyes on anyone HAM's signals in LF ;-))) 73! Ed RU6LA mailto:ed@dx.ru From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 460 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 15:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 15:20:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17739 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16puEd-0000AF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:55:47 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16puEb-0000A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:55:45 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id KAA12151 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:17:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:16:22 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203261016_MC3-F74D-6D7A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alex, >Just find a XTALL for TX. >I have some problem with good receiving (RX is very bad) so it will be >next step when I build a converter.. >Sorry I have not much free time to do all of this very quickly but I'll do >it indeed! ... don't worry, we *all* went through this phase, that is the beautiful thing about LF: none of the equipment can really be bought off the shelf and every single piece has either to be build from scratch or modified! When I remember back only 4 or 5 years beack , the LF pioneer DJ8WL (who died much too early) did some tests on 137.1 kHz, and was proud and surprised that his tiny little signal first was copied around 300 km away, then suddenly by stations in the U.K.! Now we are talking about thousands of miles spanning half the globe ... so it is just a matter of time. Good luck, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: Thanks for the information on the UA6 activity, we will definetely look out for Ed, Ed RU6LA and his crew next weekend! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18379 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 15:18:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 15:18:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15227 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 15:18:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 15:18:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16puCW-00009n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:53:36 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16puCV-00009a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:53:35 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA3ca08ff01245 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:12:48 +0600 (OS) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:51:51 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: back conversion In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326084436.02cc0190@POP2.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Larry and Group. On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Larry Kayser wrote: > John, G4CNN > > >Without going to the bother of looking this up, I assume it is the town of > >Omsk in Western Siberia Yes, it's. > > Alex, I will be hopefully returning to 136 with as much as a Decca amp can > make from 70V DC at 25 Amps starting after August this coming year. It seems to be more then 1 kW TX out. OK! And I hope to have beter RX after August then now. Looking forward to working... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22245 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 14:21:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 14:21:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18374 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 14:22:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 14:22:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ptIJ-0008JE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:55:31 +0000 Received: from tomts11.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55] helo=tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ptII-0008J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:55:31 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.110.22]) by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020326141724.DVGB8254.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:17:24 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326084436.02cc0190@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:54:18 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: RE: LF: back conversion In-reply-to: <20020326104142.1B2C13CE1@xmxpita.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, G4CNN >Without going to the bother of looking this up, I assume it is the town of >Omsk in Western Siberia, since Alex gave that as his location in his first >email. Yes, I agree but I am no longer familiar as I once was with Russian QTH's, now that we are on more friendly terms. The numbers looked interesting and they have turned out to be interesting. Alex is only 5400 kms from here going over the pole (well 18 deg off the pole) and that is an interesting path. I am heard boringly regularly over 8K miles into the Pacific off Peru so 5+K looks very interesting especially given that we get to transit right through the middle of the Auroral pimple. Alex, I will be hopefully returning to 136 with as much as a Decca amp can make from 70V DC at 25 Amps starting after August this coming year. I hope that you will be interested to look for my signal with your setup at that time. Good luck as you get your station setup and then optimized. Looking forward to working with you later this year..... 73 Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23765 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 13:53:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 13:53:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 787 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 13:53:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 13:53:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16psni-0008Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:54 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16psng-0008Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:52 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA3ca07a3607ee for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:40:06 +0600 (OS) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:19:10 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020326101024.2d07bb30@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hellow LF Group. On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Rik Strobbe wrote: > If you prefer not to use a PC to transmit QRSS you can indeed program a > PIC, it will be OK for beacon transmissions but might be a bit complicated > for a 2-way QSO to change the text. Anyway, if you want to make a 2-way > QRSS QSO you will need a PC for receiving the signals. > Another alternative to transmit QRSS is to use a normal memory keyer and > add a large capacitance to the timer of the keyer to slow it down. I > believe G3XDV did this with success. It's good idea about memory keyer. Now my keyer have no memory but I'll program a PIC to operate in memory keyer mode. Just connect a padle! So I'll can change a text and get yet another keyer. Certanly PC is more convenient but I have no free COM or LP port. Any way beacon transmission should be first step and use PIC is more quick and easy. Just find a XTALL for TX. I have some problem with good receiving (RX is very bad) so it will be next step when I build a converter.. Sorry I have not much free time to do all of this very quickly but I'll do it indeed! Another stn from Russia may appear on 136 kHz very soon from UA6 land. May be in week or two - listen! 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6358 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 11:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 11:37:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21637 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 11:37:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 11:37:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pqil-0007km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:10:39 +0000 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pqik-0007kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:10:38 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.c6.8c828aa (3858) for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:32:00 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:32:00 EST Subject: Re: LF: QRSS / UA land To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10512 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 3/26/02 6:03:13 AM GMT Standard Time, DK8KW@compuserve.com writes:


... you could also look into some other solutions that should work pretty
well. For example, there is a way to use two xtals that are 137.7 kHz
apart. The frequencies of thos x-tals are mixed. If the two xtals have
approximately the same temperature behaviour, the resulting frequency is
very stabile. You find a possible sulution on the homepage of Peter, DF3LP
at
If all else fails I have a stock of  8.000 and 8.274MHz Xtals.
They mix to give 274kHz and then you can divide by two which produces two antiphase signals at 137kHz suitable for a push pull amplifier.

The circuit is shown as part of a 300W transmitter in the RSGB LF source book and at www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk

As a word of encouragement to Alex. I worked a station near Odessa crossband to 40m with normal CW  with about 20 Watts ERP on 136kHz  (G3WSC special permit).   QRSS should be fine even another 20dB down.

If you are really stuck I probably have a breadboard version of the VXO around here somewhere.

Good luck


David  G0MRF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 157 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 10:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 10:47:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21828 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 10:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 10:47:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ppw3-0007aS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:20:19 +0000 Received: from nat7.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.9] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ppw1-0007Zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:20:18 +0000 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 1B2C13CE1; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:41:42 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: back conversion From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020326104142.1B2C13CE1@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:41:42 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry,
Without going to the bother of looking this up, I assume it is the town of Omsk in Western Siberia, since Alex gave that as his location in his first email.
73, John, G4CNN

--- On Mon 03/25, Larry Kayser wrote:
> Greetings all:
>
> Is there anyone who can back convert this to Lat/Long?
>
>
> >My QTH loc is
> > >MO64RX.
>
> Larry
> VA3LK
>
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23359 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 09:21:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 09:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23675 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 09:21:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 09:21:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16poaJ-0007Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:53:47 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16poaH-0007Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:53:45 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2Q9FBgv172860 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020326101024.2d07bb30@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:10:24 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS In-reply-to: References: <3.0.1.16.20020325165932.307f141a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alex, As you noticed there is a lot of interest from Europe in your LF activities. If you are able to put 50 .. 100mW ERP in the air I would recommend at least 30 second dotlength for QRSS, if the signal turns out to be strong you can always go to shorter dotlengths. If you prefer not to use a PC to transmit QRSS you can indeed program a PIC, it will be OK for beacon transmissions but might be a bit complicated for a 2-way QSO to change the text. Anyway, if you want to make a 2-way QRSS QSO you will need a PC for receiving the signals. Another alternative to transmit QRSS is to use a normal memory keyer and add a large capacitance to the timer of the keyer to slow it down. I believe G3XDV did this with success. If you are ready for receiving I would recommend to try to copy DCF39 on 138.830kHz. This commercial station runs about 30kW ERP and is located near Magdeburg (Germany, JO52WG). It transmits a carrier that is interrupted by a kind of 'RTTY burst' every 10 seconds. Amateur signals on 136kHz are about 45 to 55dB weaker (7 to 9 s-points), so you would need to copy DCF39 at 45dB SNR to be able to copy an amateur station in CW. Fortunately we can win a lot of dB using QRSS, if you copy DCF39 at 30dB SNR you have a good chance to be able to see QRSS3 signals (QRSS at 3 sec. dotlength), at 20dB SNR it is worth to try QRSS30 and QRSS120 would require only 14dB SNR. Regarding TX and RX equipement for 136kHz, there is a lot of information on the web. I have an overview of these websites at : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136brew.htm 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14196 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 07:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 07:11:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24483 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 07:11:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 07:11:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pmbF-0006xV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:46:37 +0000 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pmbE-0006xP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:46:36 +0000 Received: from mailrelay1.vs.dasa.de by gatek.vs.dasa.de via smtpd (for post.thorcom.com [212.172.148.70]) with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 07:09:31 UT Received: from ulm001.sysde.corp (ulm001.sysde.corp [149.207.22.81]) by mailrelay1.de.sysde.corp (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g2Q783x25835 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:08:03 +0100 (MET) Received: by ulm001.sysde.corp with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:08:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: back conversion Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:08:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hallo larry, try this : http://www.qsl.net/lc3hat/qrbqte/ 73 de dl1san (wolf) -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Larry Kayser [mailto:kayser@sympatico.ca] Gesendet am: Dienstag, 26. März 2002 01:13 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: back conversion Greetings all: Is there anyone who can back convert this to Lat/Long? >My QTH loc is > >MO64RX. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26056 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 06:03:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 06:03:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20892 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 06:03:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 06:03:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16plXX-0006n1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:38:43 +0000 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16plXV-0006mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:38:41 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id BAA14579 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:59:33 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRSS To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203260059_MC3-F73B-EB33@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alex, it would be really nice to be able to see if your signal coul make it over to Europe, the distance between you and my QTH is 'only' about 4038 km ;-) >My VFO is not very good because it was builded for normal CW operation. >OK. I will be lookin for XTAL for this frequency. There is some oportunity >to get such a XTAL. ... you could also look into some other solutions that should work pretty well. For example, there is a way to use two xtals that are 137.7 kHz apart. The frequencies of thos x-tals are mixed. If the two xtals have approximately the same temperature behaviour, the resulting frequency is very stabile. You find a possible sulution on the homepage of Peter, DF3LP at http://www.qsl.net/df3lp/137khz/LF-transmitter.html Another way would be to use to HF transceiver or a good HF vfo and divide it's frequency by a certain factor, or use the transceiver in combination with an xtal converting the frequency to 137.700 kHz. >I prefer to use PIC16F84 microcontroller as QRSS TX keyer, not PC. To >build such a keyer I should know: > >1. What dot duration accurancy should be? >2. What is standard dotlenth and should it be very stable? May be I can >use RC generator in the controller... >3. Should I do any synchronization of each dot/dash start to global time? >If not it's better... ... typical dotlength for QRSS operation is 3 seconds for "normal" QRSS QSOs (very much used within Europe, when the signal strength is just not sufficient to work with normal CW, and 60 or 90 seconds for intercontinental beacon operation, stations from VE have been successfully copied in Europe, and European stations have been copied in VE and W by using 60 or 90 second dot length. So far only a few attempts were made using "synchronized" dots, but the majority of the succesful tests were made with non-synchronized signals. The accuracy of the dot length is not very important. There is an excellent software written by Rik, ON7YD available at http://members.aol.com/lwcanews/qrs311dl.htm it works under Windows 95/98 and, as far as I know, also under Windows 3.11. The interface to the TX is done by using the serial port using a transistor. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) LF-homepage http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29090 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 04:16:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 04:16:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13756 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 04:16:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 04:16:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pjpA-0006Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:48:48 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pjp8-0006Wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:48:46 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA3c9ff43d2918 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:08:29 +0600 (OS) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:47:34 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020325165932.307f141a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Rik ang LF Group. On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Rik Strobbe wrote: > You are in the range of 4000 to 4700 km of most European LF stations. That > might be a bit too much for normal CW. But trans-atlantic tests in the past > years have shown that with a few 100mW ERP it is possible to copy QRSS > signals over a range of 5000 to 6500km. And you have the advantage that you > have a rather northern location, so even this time of the year there a a > good 'dark path'. I have never think about QSO with Europe because I thought that even in QRSS mode ERP more then 1 W should be. Your words have change my opinion. It seems posible for me to radiate 50 or 100 mW. > Regarding the VFO : a drift of no more than few Hz/hour is required for 3 > to 10 sec. dotlength, a VXO or PLL is prefered but a good VFO might do it. My VFO is not very good because it was builded for normal CW operation. OK. I will be lookin for XTAL for this frequency. There is some oportunity to get such a XTAL. I prefer to use PIC16F84 microcontroller as QRSS TX keyer, not PC. To build such a keyer I should know: 1. What dot duration accurancy should be? 2. What is standard dotlenth and should it be very stable? May be I can use RC generator in the controller... 3. Should I do any synchronization of each dot/dash start to global time? If not it's better... 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8661 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 02:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 02:38:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28190 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 02:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 02:39:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16phKX-00066d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:09:01 +0000 Received: from mail.ardi.lv ([159.148.84.14] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16phKW-00066Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:09:00 +0000 Received: from dns ([213.175.92.92]) by mail.ardi.lv (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2Q1Uhv33794 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:30:43 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from yl2dx@ardi.lv) Message-ID: <007201c1d465$d18abb40$5c5cafd5@telia.lv> From: "Yuri Baltin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020325191133.02d9e6f0@POP2.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: back conversion Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:30:30 +0200 Organization: KDXC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Kayser > Is there anyone who can back convert this to Lat/Long? > QTH loc MO64RX. Hello, Larry and all, WW-Loc MO64RX must be close to 54 degr. 57 min. 30 sec North 73 degr. 25 min. 00 sec East 73 de YL2DX www.dx.ardi.lv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11919 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 01:09:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 01:09:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5649 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 01:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 01:09:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pgxR-000610-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:45:09 +0000 Received: from host3.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.68] helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pgxQ-00060v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:45:08 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license a92af76fa81af492f1baf10eb4841a87) with ESMTP id <20020326010725.SPVL345.host3@att.net> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9FC9FA.FCA97846@att.net> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:08:10 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: back conversion References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020325191133.02d9e6f0@POP2.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, Program BD shows MO64rx to center on 54 58 45 N x 73 27 30 E Dexter Larry Kayser wrote: > > Greetings all: > > Is there anyone who can back convert this to Lat/Long? > > >My QTH loc is > > >MO64RX. > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14821 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 00:31:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 00:31:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29052 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2002 00:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2002 00:31:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pgMN-0005vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:06:51 +0000 Received: from tomts10.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.54] helo=tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pgMM-0005vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:06:50 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.208.193.1]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020326002844.GCX12727.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325191133.02d9e6f0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:13:08 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: LF: back conversion In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020325165932.307f141a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings all: Is there anyone who can back convert this to Lat/Long? >My QTH loc is > >MO64RX. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28123 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 22:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 22:29:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19076 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 22:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 22:29:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16peRm-0005dI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:04:18 +0000 Received: from mailout09.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.84]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16peRl-0005dD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:04:17 +0000 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16pcur-0001ML-0C; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:26:13 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.249]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16pcup-0ATETAC; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:26:11 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c1d403$c36d5fc0$0a51063e@default> Subject: Re: LF: Propagation and G6RO report X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:26:11 +0100 Message-ID: <16pcup-0ATETAC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Melia schrieb: > Hi all, conditions did seem to be up for daytime signals this weekend as > forecast, in fact Sunday seemed the better day, from Brian's DCF39 plot. > Both days show an improvement in signal strengths of about 6dB over last > year's autumn equinox average. It was interesting to see the better > conditions confirmed by Uwe's report of hearing Ron who is a regular signal > on the band in the UK, having been active for about 3 years. > > There was a major geomagnetic storm yesterday (24th) with Kp levels of 6 > which should lead to continuing good daytime conditions but as we have come > to see, poor nightime levels for long distance signals. > > More details on my web site, or via Dave's site. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > alan.melia@btinternet.com > http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/latest.htm > > > Hi Alan, since my new antenna (two turn loop, W to E, 65m horiz / 12m vertic, two metre above ground) is working I do hear UK stns I never heard before. today G3KAU/lech gave me rst 229, I gave him 579. dave/g3yxm was 589 today and 569 with the old L-antenna (W to E, 17m to 9m above ground, 350m long). sri Alan, guess my G6RO-rprt is no indication for better cndx. regards Uwe/dj8wx/jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4896 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 20:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 20:20:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26057 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 20:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 20:20:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pcQu-0005EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:55:16 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pcQt-0005ER-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:55:15 +0000 Received: from host213-122-148-73.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.148.73]) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16patz-0001sV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:17:12 +0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: FW: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:11:33 +0000 Message-ID: <16vu9ugtu5tjii51r3msp8654aocnf4nv0@4ax.com> References: <000f01c1d3f1$fc11f960$1700a8c0@home> In-reply-to: <000f01c1d3f1$fc11f960$1700a8c0@home> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:41:20 -0000, you wrote: > >I this really a problem? Just use the delete key! >I get tons of spam every day but I think there have only been a couple via >the reflector which is not worth worrying about. A low percentage but irritating >The inconvenience of only being able to post from one address would be >worse, Surely you could still post from the other account just by altering the From address for that post only to teh registered one, a trivial thing in a good e-mail package. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21225 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:48:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:48:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11296 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:49:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:49:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pb0t-00050T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:19 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pb0s-00050O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:18 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16pZTz-0003WE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:46:15 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16pZTy-0002vv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:46:14 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325182324.00b06ae8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:41:50 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS with RA9MB In-reply-to: <002201c1d428$276cb2e0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alex, LF group, At 18:06 25/03/2002 +0000, G3AQC wrote: >Hi Alex, >I should be very pleased to transmit, for you to attempt QRSS reception... I can also send some QRSS sigs if you like - but first, it would be a good idea to chose a frequency that has low noise at your QTH. Preferred frequencies here are between 135.8 - 135.9 kHz, and 137.6 - 137.8 kHz, but this can be changed to suit your conditions. Also, you wrote: ...Now I have simple LC VFO as master oscillator in my TX. I think that frequency stability is not adequate for QRSS. Is it so? I used a VFO for QRSS transmission at one time - for 3 second dots, it is OK provided you check the frequency every few minutes. But for longer dot periods, a crystal or synthesiser is probably essential. Obviously, the RX must be stable as well. I think you are the first and only LF station from your part of the world, so it would certainly be good to try some tests - good luck! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20199 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:19:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3383 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:19:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16paW0-0004sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:24 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16paVz-0004sq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:23 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-62.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.62] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16pYmz-0001Gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:01:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3C9F68FF.665BE87E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:14:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: FW: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector References: <000f01c1d3f1$fc11f960$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > John and all. > > I this really a problem? Just use the delete key! > I get tons of spam every day but I think there have only been a couple via > the reflector which is not worth worrying about. > The inconvenience of only being able to post from one address would be > worse, I had problems with the lowfer group and ended up getting multiple > messages due to having several accounts, much more of a pain to sort out. > > Let's not worry about such small things eh? There are worse things posted on > this reflector than spam... I think the same. There have been so few over the years, the percentage is so minute, I do not see any problem. > > > 73 > Dave > G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22031 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:12:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 13303 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 18:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 18:12:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16paOo-0004qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:44:58 +0000 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16paOn-0004qt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:44:57 +0000 Received: from modem-237.engineer-fish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.7.237] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16pYrt-0005fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c1d428$276cb2e0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS with RA9MB Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:06:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alex, I should be very pleased to transmit, for you to attempt QRSS reception. The best time would probably be around our dusk which is approx 1800UTC at the moment.Please advise when you are ready to try,I suggest we start with 60sec dots,and speed up if reception is good. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19712 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 16:09:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 16:09:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8177 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 16:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 16:09:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pYUg-0004Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:42:54 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pYUf-0004Uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:42:53 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2PG4JhL167432 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:04:19 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020325165932.307f141a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:59:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Ground loss In-reply-to: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Now I have simple LC VFO as master oscillator in my TX. I think that >frequency stability is not adequate for QRSS. Is it so? I am not familar >with QRSS. If I'll find XTALL for this frequency it will be posible to >try. Distance seems to be very large for conventional CW. My QTH loc is >MO64RX. Hello Alex, You are in the range of 4000 to 4700 km of most European LF stations. That might be a bit too much for normal CW. But trans-atlantic tests in the past years have shown that with a few 100mW ERP it is possible to copy QRSS signals over a range of 5000 to 6500km. And you have the advantage that you have a rather northern location, so even this time of the year there a a good 'dark path'. Regarding the VFO : a drift of no more than few Hz/hour is required for 3 to 10 sec. dotlength, a VXO or PLL is prefered but a good VFO might do it. Maybe the best way to start is by trying to receive some 136kHz signal from Europe. There are several strong stations that were copied in USA and Canada on regular based last winter, if you have a good RX-antenna, a receiver that goes down to 136kHz and a computer with soundcard you can arrange skeds with them. If you copy them you can try a crossband QSO ... Good luck, 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23321 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 15:15:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 15:15:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10824 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 15:15:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 15:15:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pXeE-0004Jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:48:42 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pXeB-0004Jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:48:40 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA3c9f3d355dd6 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:07:33 +0600 (OS) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:46:35 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ground loss In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Jim and Group. On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, James Moritz wrote: > Will be interested to hear about any of your investigations on this > subject. OK. If I'll get any sucsess in such an investigation I'll send info. Just yesterday I have understand that my previous theoretical study is not correct for an electrical antenna. May be it is correct for magnetic loop antenna. But I need to think... > Also, I'm sure many of us would be keen to try and receive your > 136kHz sigs - using QRSS or similar modes, you can go a long way with low > power and quite small antennas. Now I have simple LC VFO as master oscillator in my TX. I think that frequency stability is not adequate for QRSS. Is it so? I am not familar with QRSS. If I'll find XTALL for this frequency it will be posible to try. Distance seems to be very large for conventional CW. My QTH loc is MO64RX. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9056 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 13:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 13:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 18804 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pWMp-00045R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:26:39 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pWMo-00045M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:26:38 +0000 Received: from in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.6.81.10] helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16pUpu-0004Au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:48:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c1d403$c36d5fc0$0a51063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation and G6RO report Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:45:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, conditions did seem to be up for daytime signals this weekend as forecast, in fact Sunday seemed the better day, from Brian's DCF39 plot. Both days show an improvement in signal strengths of about 6dB over last year's autumn equinox average. It was interesting to see the better conditions confirmed by Uwe's report of hearing Ron who is a regular signal on the band in the UK, having been active for about 3 years. There was a major geomagnetic storm yesterday (24th) with Kp levels of 6 which should lead to continuing good daytime conditions but as we have come to see, poor nightime levels for long distance signals. More details on my web site, or via Dave's site. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk/latest.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1302 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 12:38:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 12:38:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17043 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 12:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 12:38:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pVC9-0003ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:11:33 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pVC8-0003rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:11:32 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16pTfE-0003CL-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:33:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16pTfD-0001dt-00; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:33:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325112727.00a94ed8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:29:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Alexander S. Yurkov" From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Ground loss In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:19 23/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hello, lowfers! > >I wonder is any methods to estimate theoretically groung loss resistance >of transmitting LF antenna (T-antenna with wire conterpoints mainly but >others antennas also). >I have good expirience in theoretical physics but I do not know, how solve >the problem correctly...:-( My attempt to use EZNEC-2 was unsucsesfull. Dear Alexander, LF Group, I am not aware of any reliable way of calculating ground loss resistance - The problem with using EZNEC or similar is that it does not provide a realistic way of modelling a buried ground system. Some old antenna books provide some info about ground losses, but this data is concerned with big, professional LF antennas, and does not seem to be representative of the performance of much smaller amateur antennas. From a theoretical point of view, a small LF antenna could probably be modelled as a lossy capacitor - but this requires a knowledge of the dielectric properties of the soil under the antenna, and the field distribution around the antenna, which are usually not known with any accuracy. Practical figures for ground loss of amateur top-loaded vertical antennas at 136kHz vary from around 10-20 ohms to a few hundred ohms at the extremes - typically, tens of ohms can be expected - the larger or higher the antenna, the lower resistance gets. The loss resistance of a particular antenna is frequency dependent, very approximately proportional to 1/f. Environmental effects are significant - if there are many trees or buildings near the antenna, loss will increase. However, even in an "ideal" location in an open field, the loss resistance is not greatly reduced. On the whole, people have been disappointed with the effects of improving ground systems using radials, counterpoises, and earth rods - the actual resistance of the ground connection seems to be only a minor factor in the overall losses. Will be interested to hear about any of your investigations on this subject. Also, I'm sure many of us would be keen to try and receive your 136kHz sigs - using QRSS or similar modes, you can go a long way with low power and quite small antennas. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28642 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 11:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 11:43:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 2980 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 11:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 11:43:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pUNX-0003hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:15 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pUNW-0003hr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:14 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.144] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16pSqc-00005C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:41:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c1d3f1$fc11f960$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: FW: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:41:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John and all. I this really a problem? Just use the delete key! I get tons of spam every day but I think there have only been a couple via the reflector which is not worth worrying about. The inconvenience of only being able to post from one address would be worse, I had problems with the lowfer group and ended up getting multiple messages due to having several accounts, much more of a pain to sort out. Let's not worry about such small things eh? There are worse things posted on this reflector than spam... 73 Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29262 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 11:20:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 11:20:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7916 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 11:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 11:20:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pU1A-0003bn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:56:08 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pU19-0003bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:56:07 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16pSUG-00000V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:18:04 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16pSUF-0007L1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:18:03 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325111009.00a993e8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:13:39 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH log In-reply-to: <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, LF Group, I recorded a large number of spectrograms using 2 different receivers and antennas during the ZL6QH transmission period - but alas no signals were seen here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16899 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 10:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 10:08:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22467 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 10:08:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 10:08:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pStQ-0003Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:44:04 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pStP-0003Pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:44:03 +0000 Received: from [62.21.145.151] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16pRMV-0000Di-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:05:59 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325105328.00a10420@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:11:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G6RO In-reply-to: <000c01c1d3da$42eacd20$1700a8c0@home> References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> <16pHwr-2DWeWGC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

Picture's of Ron, G6RO, and some of his his beautiful antique radio receivers can be found in Dave's LF column in RadCom of March 2002, page 90.
G6RO is not a new station on LF; I worked him for the first time on 11 November 1999.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE



At 08:51 25-3-02 +0000, you wrote:

Uwe

You got the call right. It is Ron who lives North of Bradford in the North
of England. He uses a valve amplifier producing about 200W.
He doesn't have the internet but I will pass on your report.
There are some pictures of his station in the gallery.
http://www.wireless.org.uk/gallery/g6ro.htm

73
Dave
G3YXM.

>
> just heard G6RO calling CQ. RST 329 in jo43sv. a new OM on LF or did I
> misinterpret the code ?
>
> regards
>
> Uwe/dj8wx
>
>
>
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14467 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 09:09:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 09:09:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21009 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 09:09:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 09:09:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pRxB-0003Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:43:53 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pRx9-0003ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:43:52 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA3c9ee83f27b3 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:05:03 +0600 (OS) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:44:09 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Proximity effect In-reply-to: <3C9ED998.6E6F7E40@virgin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Stewart ang Group. On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Stewart Bryant wrote: > A very brief look at Balanis "Antenna Theory" has the passing comment > that > proximity effect can lead to greater loss than skin effect (on a > discussion on > small loops). He references G. Smith, The proximity effect in systems of > > parallel conductors", J Applied Physics, Vol 43, no 5, May 1972 pp > 2196-2203. The proximity effect increase losses indeed. The effect may be substationaly greater than skin effect only. I have investigate by myself this effect in solenoid few years ago both theoretically and experimentally. Unfortunely I do not study this in loop. But it seems that effect is large in loop as in solenoid. 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8625 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 08:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 08:54:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 27857 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 08:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 08:54:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pRjB-0003BJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:29:25 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pRjA-0003BE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:29:25 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.144] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16pQCF-0002kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:51:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1d3da$42eacd20$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> <16pHwr-2DWeWGC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: G6RO Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:51:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe You got the call right. It is Ron who lives North of Bradford in the North of England. He uses a valve amplifier producing about 200W. He doesn't have the internet but I will pass on your report. There are some pictures of his station in the gallery. http://www.wireless.org.uk/gallery/g6ro.htm 73 Dave G3YXM. > > just heard G6RO calling CQ. RST 329 in jo43sv. a new OM on LF or did I > misinterpret the code ? > > regards > > Uwe/dj8wx > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7764 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 08:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 08:11:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1373 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 08:11:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 08:11:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pQzD-00033W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:41:55 +0000 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pQzC-00033R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:41:54 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.78]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GTIRPL01.M52 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:03:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3C9ED998.6E6F7E40@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:02:32 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Proximity effect References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161123.009fbec0@POP3.freeler.nl> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  
I have a first edition and a third edition. The material is only in the first edition.

A very brief look at Balanis "Antenna Theory" has the passing comment that
proximity effect can lead to greater loss than skin effect (on a discussion on
small loops). He references G. Smith, The proximity effect in systems of
parallel conductors", J Applied Physics, Vol 43, no 5, May 1972 pp 2196-2203.

Perhaps someone who has access to a university library could take a look
and see what the article reports.

73

Stewart G3YSX

Dick Rollema wrote:

To All from PA0SE

John, G3CNN, wrote
 
 

Surprisingly that particular graph is not in my second edition. Is there another book? Mine is simply entitled Radio Engineering.
73, John, G4CNN


I also possess Radio Engineering by Terman and it is fine as a textbook. But as a reference manual Radio Engineers Handbook is much more useful, in fact it is still a superb piece of work. Look out for a copy!
I attach the title page.

73, Dick, PA0SE

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28876 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 00:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 00:16:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17643 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2002 00:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2002 00:16:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pJdY-00022J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:51:04 +0000 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pJdX-00022E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:51:03 +0000 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16pHwu-0002Rs-02; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:02:56 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.50]) by fwd08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16pHwr-2DWeWGC; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:02:53 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: G6RO X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:02:53 +0100 Message-ID: <16pHwr-2DWeWGC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, just heard G6RO calling CQ. RST 329 in jo43sv. a new OM on LF or did I misinterpret the code ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3876 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 23:15:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 814 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 23:15:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 23:15:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pIgx-0001uG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:50:31 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pIgv-0001tm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:50:30 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.181.48]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020324231151.DVEE8792.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:11:51 +1200 Message-ID: <002201c1d389$5f1e8320$81b21bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> <3C9E9B55.D7D9095C@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Califorina too Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:06:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John VE1ZJ, Thanks for the status report: > Hi Bob, the ant I use for 136 came down this winter. Will re-erect when > snow all gone . got 6 inches new snow last friday. I therefore was not > looking during last test Can you erect it a little further northwards or eastwards so we can extend the best distance so far received from ZL6QH :-) 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25812 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 22:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 22:40:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6272 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 22:40:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 22:40:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pI7I-0001pT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:13:40 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pI7H-0001pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:13:39 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.79.236]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:37:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3C9E9B55.D7D9095C@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:53 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Califorina too References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, the ant I use for 136 came down this winter. Will re-erect when snow all gone . got 6 inches new snow last friday. I therefore was not looking during last test 73 de John VE1ZJ Vernall wrote: > Hi all, > > A direct QSL from Mike KB6WFC, Daly City, CA. His Argo pics confirm > receiving a couple of clear Qs from ZL6QH, and other patchy reception.. > > 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15676 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 20:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 20:00:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 586 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 20:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 20:00:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pFXy-0001RU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:29:02 +0000 Received: from nat8.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.10] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16pFXx-0001RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:29:01 +0000 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 4C0CE3DE4; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:50:25 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: ZL6QH tests From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020324195025.4C0CE3DE4@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:50:25 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Watched with Argo during the Sunset window, but nothing seen that could possibly be ZL6QH.
John, G4CNN

--- On Thu 03/21, Vernall wrote:
> ZL6QH BEACON TESTING 23 MARCH
>
> ZL6QH will be transmitting on 23 March for all hours of local darkness.
> ZL2
> sunset is nominally 0628 UTC, and sunrise nominally 1831 UTC (more
> sunrise
> and sunset details in the list at the end of the notice). The date was
> selected to be close to an equinox.
>
> Dual frequency keying will be used, with 120 second dots, 0.4 Hz shift
> and
> sending QQQQQQ... as hi, hi, lo, hi, gap. One Q takes 10 minutes.
> hi = 137.7890 kHz
> lo = 137.7886 kHz
> Each Q will start on the hour and be maintained close to 10 minute
> multiples
> throughout each hour, so absolute timing may be useful for analysis of
> difficult reception situations.
>
> SUNRISE AND SUNSET TIMES (UTC)
> DX stations can decide on their best times for monitoring. The following
> list is a sequence of sunrise and sunset nominal times for 23 March, for
> various countries, by call sign prefix :
>
> I sunrise 0508 UTC
> DL sunrise 0530 UTC
> F sunrise 0548 UTC
> G sunrise 0601 UTC
> EA sunrise 0613 UTC
> GM sunrise 0614 UTC
> IE sunrise 0623 UTC
> ZL2 sunset 0628 UTC
> VE1 sunrise 1012 UTC
> W4 sunrise 1136 UTC
> W6 sunrise 1359 UTC
> VE7 sunrise 1410 UTC
> KH6 sunrise 1630 UTC
> I sunset 1711 UTC
> DL sunset 1733 UTC
> F sunset 1752 UTC
> G sunset 1806 UTC
> EA sunset 1816 UTC
> GM sunset 1819 UTC
> EI sunset 1827 UTC
> ZL2 sunrise 1831 UTC
>
> It would seem that European listeners miss out on dark paths with ZL
> before
> their Saturday morning sunrise, but there are dark paths at and after
> European dusk. Thus early Saturday evening could be the best time for
> European listeners.
>
> Reception reports can be emailed to vernall@xtra.co.nz or posted to the
> reflector. Note that there is no online email at ZL6QH. There is also a
> booking for all-band HF activity, so on this occasion an HF liaison
> frequency can not be offered for advising LF reports as it could clash
> with
> contest activity.
>
> Good luck to all prospective listeners.
>
> 73, Bob ZL2CA
>
>
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7520 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 07:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 07:55:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 1257 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 07:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 07:55:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16p4IJ-0000Ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:28:07 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16p4II-0000Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:28:06 +0000 Received: from modem-84.calaquendi.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.144.84] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16p2lP-0002xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:50:03 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c1d308$d01dd660$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ZL6QH not recieved here Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:51:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry but nothing seen here on the South Coast. Looking foreward to the next time, please try again ,we no doubt need exceptional conditions. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7430 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 05:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 05:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 20136 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 05:08:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 05:08:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16p1hs-0008RO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:42:20 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-130.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16p1hq-0008RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:42:19 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.66.242]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020324050343.BDJQ4403.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:03:43 +1200 Message-ID: <007f01c1d2f1$66b6eca0$23b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Califorina too Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:03:09 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, A direct QSL from Mike KB6WFC, Daly City, CA. His Argo pics confirm receiving a couple of clear Qs from ZL6QH, and other patchy reception.. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 123 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 01:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 01:57:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2522 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2002 01:57:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oyjn-00082K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:32:07 +0000 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oyjm-00082F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:32:06 +0000 Received: from 66-44-57-131.s385.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.57.131] helo=nanandsandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 16oxCs-0001Ga-00; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:02 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:59:44 -0500 Message-ID: <01C1D2AD.A8B9AB40.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: tacos@amrad.org Subject: LF: ZL6QH not received in Virginia Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:59:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well almost. A few seconds on the right frequencies here and there at the same time W1TAG was receiving "Q's". But nothing even close. It looks like at least 3 people were trying to receive. Will try again next time. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9938 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 22:13:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 22:13:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 11162 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 22:13:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 22:13:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ovBP-0007aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:44:23 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-131.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.131] helo=mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ovBN-0007aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:44:21 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.35]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020323220544.CWJJ20246.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:44 +1200 Message-ID: <001c01c1d2b7$02a37740$23b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> Subject: LF: ZL6QH log Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:01:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks for reports so far made. It looks like ZL6QH made it to the east coast of stateside again, but not across the next pond. I can confirm that ZL6QH made a reasonable go of it, from well before ZL sunset to well after ZL sunrise. However, there was a 30 minute transmission outage from 2000 - 2030 UTC due to power problems, and an operating error at 0510 UTC when a frequency trim was inadvertently done when it should have been a timing trim, so there was a "bad Q" from 0510 to 0520, but good again after that. Apart from these matters, transmission was steady and frequency was thought to be within 0.1 Hz of declared frequencies. Cheers for now, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14052 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 14:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 14:16:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1381 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16onpB-0006nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:52:57 +0000 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16onpA-0006nX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:52:56 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license a92af76fa81af492f1baf10eb4841a87) with ESMTP id <20020323141530.GQVH332.host4@att.net>; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:15:30 -0500 Message-ID: <3C9C8E14.815464F6@att.net> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:15:48 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" , "LowFER" Subject: LF: ZL6QH 137khz test received in North Carolina Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Best Q received just after 0900 posted at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/Argo/ZL6QH/ZL6QH23mar020930.jpg More screen shots at this directory: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/Argo/ZL6QH/ ARGO screen time is UTC. My thanks to ZL2CA and the Quartz Hill group for their efforts. Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13617 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 13:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 13:57:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23537 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 13:57:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 13:57:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16onWV-0006kX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:33:39 +0000 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16onWU-0006kS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:33:38 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.158.afc04f2 (24899) for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:54:57 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <158.afc04f2.29cde32a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:54:50 EST Subject: LF: Someone "testing" on 137.79kHz ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Group,
On saturday morning around 09:00 UTC there was a quite weak signal (barely audible) near 137.79 kHz, not identified because I had no PC at the club stn. It was too strong to be DX in the 20000km range...
but sounded like very slow CW. Someone tuning on the "ZL test frequency" ?
If so, please don't.

Thanks,
 Wolf DL4YHF // DF0WD.
 Loc JO42FD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3878 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 13:27:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 13:27:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 9199 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 13:28:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 13:28:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16on3R-0006eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:03:37 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16on3Q-0006eT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:03:36 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA3c9c81894bcb for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:22:17 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:01:18 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Ground loss (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and group! Thanks a lot for your coments. It is a very interesting subject for me because I am not a HAM only but a physicist also. I have do some theoretical investigation of power absorption by ground when there is horisontal wire upon the ground. And I have find that the ground losses is about the same then losses in coper! Pointly ground loss and coper loss are the same when wire diameter is 7 millimeters. If wire diameter is less then 7 mm the coper losses is main! I was very suprised because I know that ground losses is 30 - 100 Ohm... I thought that the reason is the simlification of my theoretical model. It may be so, but now I undestand then it is not the only reason. It should be very interesting to carry out a "pure" experiment when no enviroment losses is present. I do not know when I can do that. But I hope to do that this summer time when being out of city. Now I have understand that 30 - 100 Ohm is not really ground losses but an enviroment one! So I have a subject to think how to describe it theoreticaly. It seems to me that any attempt to measure the ground and enviroment losses separately (unfortunely I do not know how to do that :-( ) are wery worth... Now my 136 kHz TX is only 50 W out and antenna is about 15 meters up. Unfortunely I am so far from Europe and there is no LF funs in nearly region yet... Also by my own investigation I get some sucses in Q-factor calculation of loadin coil. It is very usefull when desining a coil. Experimental mesurement has confirm my theoretical estimation. If this is interesting for anybody I can send some info on this matter... On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, john sexton wrote: > > > Hi Sasha,
> The common view often reported on this reflector is that there is no acceptable theoretical model. In practice, ground resistance can vary from as low as 30 ohms up to as high as 300 ohms, but typically it is about 100 ohms. It appears to be more dependent on the environment of the antenna rather than on the ground itself. At least that is certainly true of amateur antennas. Professional antennas can be engineered to be clear of environmental obstructions and can have a very large earth mat.
>
> In my experience it varies very considerably (10s of ohms) when I move the loading coil away from nearby objects, even a few metres makes a big difference. Trees (especially when in leaf), buildings, etc. absorb much of the radiation and this appears as a high resistance when the antenna is tuned to resonance. It would be difficult if not impossible to model such losses.
>
> A top loading coil or division of the loading coil into two parts, one at ground level and another high up has been found to help a lot, but this requires top loading wires to provide capacity above the coil and is mechanically difficult to construct.
>
> You will find a lot of information on amateur web pages. A good place to start is ON7YD's page at http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm.
>
> If you do find a model that works, please let us know.
> 73 and Bcevo Xopowevo,
> John, G4CNN
> computernetworks@go.com
> http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com
>
>
73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14932 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 12:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 12:16:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 7374 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 12:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 12:16:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16olvz-0006RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:51:51 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16olvy-0006R9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:51:50 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 27979489 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:20:17 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c1d264$34c6f060$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: ZL6QH seen in Massachusetts Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:13:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I know this doesn't set any new distance records, but I appear to have captured two of the DFCW "Q's" from ZL6QH this morning, on 137.789 kHz. The screen shot may be seen at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/files/ZL6QH.jpg The shot covers the 1000 - 1100 UTC time period, with the reception occurring around 1030. This is about a half hour before my local sunrise. An attempt to record the session on another computer with a 60 sec/dot setting failed when the computer locked up overnight. The 120 second screen smears the consecutive characters, so each of the long lines is actually two "dashes." The receiving location is in Holden, Massachusetts, grid square FN42ch. Coordinates are 42d 19m 12s N and 71d 49m 43s W. An Icom R75 receiver with a 12 turn loop was used. I'll be out of email contact for a day or so. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25580 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 08:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 08:31:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 24091 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 08:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 08:31:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oiPU-000652-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:06:04 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oiPT-00064x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:06:03 +0000 Received: from host213-122-119-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.119.152] helo=presario-1920) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16ogsa-0004VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:28:00 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: FW: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 08:30:55 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thought I would re-send as it didn't appear to be reflected - maybe it isn't spam! John -----Original Message----- From: John W Gould [mailto:g3wkl@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 20:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector Speaking to the sysop we can limit e-mails that are passed by the reflector to those that are sent from a subscriber to the reflector. The only downside to this is that there are a few dozen amongst the 254 who subscribe to the reflector that post from other than their nominal e-mail address, e.g. from a work e-mail address as well as home. They would have to subscribe from their alternative e-mail address and suffer duplicate delivery of all e-mails, since there isn't an option to set "no mail" on the current version of majordomo, the reflector's operating system. Medium-term the sysop is planning to change from majordomo to mailman. This has the "no mail" option as well as other useful features. Grateful for comments "for" or "against" limiting e-mails to those from subscriber e-mail accounts. I'm particularly interested in those who normally access the reflector from more than one e-mail address, since all others benefit by a reduction, if not elimination, of spams without any downside. 73 John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of John W Gould Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 21:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector I'll take this up with the sysop... John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sergeant Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 16:05 To: rsgb_lf_group Subject: LF: Junk mail via lf reflector There have been a number of instances recently (one today) of spam being sent via the lf reflector. The reflector is in fact configured so that anybody can post (try it with one of your alternate email addresses), but obviously only those subscribed will receive postings. Perhaps it is time to change this, ie so that only those subscribed can post. Perhaps the sysops of the list would comment. Spam is getting more and more of a nuisance. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10629 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 07:53:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 07:53:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 9587 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2002 07:53:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2002 07:53:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ohlc-0005zA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:24:52 +0000 Received: from astral.infomsk.ru ([212.164.44.2] helo=astral.omskcity.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ohla-0005z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:24:51 +0000 Received: from fitec.omskcity.com (mu06.dialup2.infomsk.ru [212.164.44.118]) by astral.omskcity.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA3c9c316a31bc; Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:40:26 +0600 (OS) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:26 +0000 (GMT) From: "Alexander S. Yurkov" To: longwaveradiolistening@egroups.com, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Ground loss Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, lowfers! I wonder is any methods to estimate theoretically groung loss resistance of transmitting LF antenna (T-antenna with wire conterpoints mainly but others antennas also). I have good expirience in theoretical physics but I do not know, how solve the problem correctly...:-( My attempt to use EZNEC-2 was unsucsesfull. I get loss resistance about 1 Ohm. I know, that really ground loss is much more... Any coments, please! 73 de RA9MB/Alex http://www.qsl.net/ra9mb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20483 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 21:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 21:12:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7116 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oXo2-0004Z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:46:42 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oXo1-0004Z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:46:42 +0000 Received: from host213-122-24-41.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.24.41]) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16oWH7-0007P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:08:37 +0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: HP 3586b SVM and HPIB/GPIB interface Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:03:07 +0000 Message-ID: <304n9ukani788689ullqfn1482icti1l0h@4ax.com> References: <000701c1d1bb$4d1e3780$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> In-reply-to: <000701c1d1bb$4d1e3780$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:04:51 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone help locate software? Is very costly? Does what I propose seem >feasible. >I really know very little about GPIB/HPIB. It is normally a pretty simple way of controlling instruments > >The manual is available with all the commands I think are needed? In which case if you have an interface send them to it and see what happens > >Comments please? You should not need special software, just what comes with the interface card and a few home written scripts. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24187 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 18:44:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 18:44:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5134 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oVW5-0004IU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:20:01 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oVW4-0004I2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:20:00 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16oTzB-0004vO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:41:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16oTzB-0007mJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:41:57 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322183437.00b019b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:37:33 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: ZL tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, LF Group, Will be listening for ZL6QH tomorrow around the dawn and dusk periods - good luck to all those involved. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17819 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 16:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 16:49:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 4597 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 16:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 16:49:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oTiA-00041r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:22 +0000 Received: from smtp1.acsu.buffalo.edu ([128.205.6.84]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oTi9-00041l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:21 +0000 Received: (qmail 29570 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 16:46:14 -0000 Received: from eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu (HELO eshop1) (128.205.126.49) by smtp1.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 16:46:14 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c1d1c1$6819d020$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> From: "James M. Walker" To: lowfer@mailman.qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c1d1bb$4d1e3780$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> Subject: LF: Re: [Lowfer] HP 3586b SVM and HPIB/GPIB interface Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:48:34 -0500 Organization: S.U.N.Y. at Buffalo Chemistry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Paul and List, I also have an HP 3586B with High stability 10 Mhz, and GPIB. I am setting it up for use on the 600 Meter Research Group frequencies, one of which is 166.5 Khz per the License. I have written some Assembly Language code unfortunately for most folks it only runs on my Software development system (Isbc-86/30). The main board has the GPIB interface in the form of a Isbx board which has the 7210 gpib control chip on it. I am maintaining control of the HP 3586B and a PTS 250 synthesizer also with GPIB interface. I have the 3586 running well and picking up signals, I am also working on an impedance transformer to switch from 50 ohms to 75 ohms for it. I have not tried the transmit (signal output) capabilities yet but that is also in the works. I may rewrite the code to run on "PC" type computers, but I don't know when that will be. This system works great so far and since the computer system has a linear power supply and the units are well shielded I get little or no "computer noise" in the receiver while doing weak signal listening, and this thing works the "Berries" for copying CW on 40 meters, lots of DX in the noise that my other receivers don't hear. If I can help with software directions or hints let me know, also pictures of my 3586B are at http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu/600MRG.html 73 Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "PC" To: ; Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: [Lowfer] HP 3586b SVM and HPIB/GPIB interface > Hello Folks, > > I am using an HP3586B selective voltmeter as a low level transmitter here in > the US part 15 LW band. The unit is equipped with a HPIB interface and I > happen to have a GPIB PCM-CIA card for the laptop. Before putting up my > transmit loop I would like to work on acquiring some software to control the > HP3586B. What I would like to do would be to be able to increment the > output level, and shift frequency. This would allow the unit to send other > types of modulation, that are more speed efficient than just QRSS. > > Can anyone help locate software? Is very costly? Does what I propose seem > feasible. > I really know very little about GPIB/HPIB. > > The manual is available with all the commands I think are needed? > > Comments please? > > Thank you all > > PaulC > > W1VLF > > > _______________________________________________ > Lowfer mailing list > Lowfer@mailman.qth.net > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26354 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 16:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 16:09:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 6949 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 16:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 16:09:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oT2Q-0003tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:41:14 +0000 Received: from smtp1.snet.net ([204.60.203.69] helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oT2P-0003tG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:41:13 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g2MG1Pgo015853; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:01:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c1d1bb$4d1e3780$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: HP 3586b SVM and HPIB/GPIB interface Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:04:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Folks, I am using an HP3586B selective voltmeter as a low level transmitter here in the US part 15 LW band. The unit is equipped with a HPIB interface and I happen to have a GPIB PCM-CIA card for the laptop. Before putting up my transmit loop I would like to work on acquiring some software to control the HP3586B. What I would like to do would be to be able to increment the output level, and shift frequency. This would allow the unit to send other types of modulation, that are more speed efficient than just QRSS. Can anyone help locate software? Is very costly? Does what I propose seem feasible. I really know very little about GPIB/HPIB. The manual is available with all the commands I think are needed? Comments please? Thank you all PaulC W1VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12184 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 06:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 06:28:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 945 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 06:28:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 06:28:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oJwH-0002eI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:58:17 +0000 Received: from mail5.dada.it ([195.110.96.37] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oJwF-0002eD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:58:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 20077 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2002 06:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.107) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 22 Mar 2002 06:19:36 -0000 Message-ID: <001401c1d169$6af38500$6b676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: R: LF: Re: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:18:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hi John
        I've also tested some polynomial expressions, the best seems to be a 5th grade one, that is:
7.074632 - x  5.16214 + x^2  1.870903 - x^3  .3380672 + x^4  .02977327 - x^5  .001017036  but the values are not matched properly.  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: john sexton <computernetworks@excite.com>
A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Data: martedì 19 marzo 2002 12.05
Oggetto: RE: LF: Re: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac

Hi Cesare,
Funny thing, I too wasted a lot of time yesterday messing about with Excel trying to find a fit and the best I came up with was that it was approx. k/log(D/d). Polynomial fits didn't seem to work too well.

Thanks for the formula. It doesn't quite work though for values of D/d from 2 to 4, but perhaps the data were only approximations?

The data alone are pretty useful. Looks like that time at College wasn't entirely wasted, hi!
BTW Bill pointed out that the minimum separation can be small as you like if you use Litz wire and can get Rrf down or close to Rdc, because
Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQRT (1-Rdc/Rrf)
reduces to 1 when Rdc = Rrf as an alternative to q = 1.

Thanks again.
73, John, G4CNN


--- On Mon 03/18, cesare tagliabue wrote:
> Hello John
> I have found the Mesny's expression on an old university stenciled
> book where only the data were given, but some time ago, for purpose of
> include it in a program, I have elaborated an empiric expression that
> approximates sufficiently these data. That is:
> q = ( 1 + .95 d / D )^2 -
> .22
> Best 73 to all Cesare
>
> Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC
> WW-Loc JN53PS
> e-mail: cestag@dada.it
> url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: john sexton
> A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 17.46
> Oggetto: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> From the interesting formula given by Cesare, the short answer to your
> question appears to be 1/2 inch.
> I tried to find out more about Mesny's expression from the Internet,
> but it looks like you have to buy the book.
> I wonder whether Cesare can be persuaded to tell us the formula that
> relates q to D/d? At a guess it appears to be logarithmic.
> The second formula can be simplified to
> Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q-1)*sqrt(1-Rdc/Rrf)
> When D/d = 9, q = 1 so the second term disappears and Reff = Rrf.
> 73, John, G4CNN
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27776 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 15214 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 19:53:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 19:53:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oA5b-0001Nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:27:15 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16oA5Z-0001Nu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:27:13 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.164]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020321194836.GAHR14382.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:48:36 +1200 Message-ID: <000a01c1d111$830cfc00$a4b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200203210234_MC3-F65C-A67C@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Reminder of ZL6QH tests Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:48:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL6QH BEACON TESTING 23 MARCH ZL6QH will be transmitting on 23 March for all hours of local darkness. ZL2 sunset is nominally 0628 UTC, and sunrise nominally 1831 UTC (more sunrise and sunset details in the list at the end of the notice). The date was selected to be close to an equinox. Dual frequency keying will be used, with 120 second dots, 0.4 Hz shift and sending QQQQQQ... as hi, hi, lo, hi, gap. One Q takes 10 minutes. hi = 137.7890 kHz lo = 137.7886 kHz Each Q will start on the hour and be maintained close to 10 minute multiples throughout each hour, so absolute timing may be useful for analysis of difficult reception situations. SUNRISE AND SUNSET TIMES (UTC) DX stations can decide on their best times for monitoring. The following list is a sequence of sunrise and sunset nominal times for 23 March, for various countries, by call sign prefix : I sunrise 0508 UTC DL sunrise 0530 UTC F sunrise 0548 UTC G sunrise 0601 UTC EA sunrise 0613 UTC GM sunrise 0614 UTC IE sunrise 0623 UTC ZL2 sunset 0628 UTC VE1 sunrise 1012 UTC W4 sunrise 1136 UTC W6 sunrise 1359 UTC VE7 sunrise 1410 UTC KH6 sunrise 1630 UTC I sunset 1711 UTC DL sunset 1733 UTC F sunset 1752 UTC G sunset 1806 UTC EA sunset 1816 UTC GM sunset 1819 UTC EI sunset 1827 UTC ZL2 sunrise 1831 UTC It would seem that European listeners miss out on dark paths with ZL before their Saturday morning sunrise, but there are dark paths at and after European dusk. Thus early Saturday evening could be the best time for European listeners. Reception reports can be emailed to vernall@xtra.co.nz or posted to the reflector. Note that there is no online email at ZL6QH. There is also a booking for all-band HF activity, so on this occasion an HF liaison frequency can not be offered for advising LF reports as it could clash with contest activity. Good luck to all prospective listeners. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22183 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 17:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 17:31:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2883 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 17:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 17:31:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16o7ix-00011g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:55:43 +0000 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16o7is-00011Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:55:39 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16o3mM-000063-00; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:58 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.69]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16o3ly-1eIC00C; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:34 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <72.19793e8e.29c8e9e6@aol.com> Subject: LF: 136kHz-loop mystery X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060701090508070004010308" Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:34 +0100 Message-ID: <16o3ly-1eIC00C@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060701090508070004010308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, i built a two turn transmitting loop abt 675 square metre. because of lack of wire it is not finished jet. it is 840 square metre (60m horiz * 14 m vertic and two metre above ground (moor)) in final state. but thats not the mystery. the ATU is. I have had up to three different matching techniques under test. all not so hot. got no more than 2A current in the loopwire (130W TX out). at last I tried realizing a diagram with a toroid (2*16 windings 5mm isolated litz). local of event: summerhouse abt 100 metre off the residential - connecting all the parts (huge turning condensers und toroid) to the feeder my wife came into the house. reasoning with me abt the unfinished works in the yard. I did not stop soldering and got a circuitry not intentioned. see attachment. pse enlarge the graphic with ur graphic/paint progr. now I do hear the grass growing. the typical loop charactristics have somewhat changed. I can receive the LORAN-C transmission though its transmitter is located in the direction of ant characteristical null. weak but audible. 3,7A current in the loopwire (abt 0.45 percent efficiency). tks to my XYL. but who can tell me the function of that ATU ? does the toroid-coil act as coupling loop ? pse no "if" statements. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------060701090508070004010308 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="LOOPH.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LOOPH.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CAEgAdMDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD6oooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiig AooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKK KKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiig AooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKjEyHGGBz0wetPVgw yvNAC0UUUAFFFFABSHpS1Fc+Z5L+TtEmDtLDIB7ZoAzRr+ntqsmnJcB7mMAyBQSI+Mjc3QH2 JrTM0Y/5aL0z1rzrUvhml5pVtbJeLFcSTi41OcRndennIYgg4zjAzgYFQ/8ACslkvNYefU7k C5jS3t2jkffBAAuY+Wxg7SCcZIPWgD0C01S0u724tbeUSS24UybeVGegz0zjnHoR61eBB6HN eOWnwm1HT0vk03XpIka3WC2Hzrs/eBnLFWGSQMZGCAcDGK9W0a0ms7CGC5na4ljUBpSMbj9K AL1FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAB RRRQAVk69r1nokCSXrSFpDtSOGNpHc+yqCa1q5Hxr4mSwsrqy0lTe6+yFLezh5bew+Ut1Cr3 y3FAF7wtrtxrkc87abNaWobELyyIzSYJB+VSduCO5roB0rivDN7f6Vp/h/SbjQp7dpAYG2yr IsCJHne7DjkjGPeu0zxmgBaYJUMhjDAuMEgHpmuH8a+IjDrGkWlhq1tbQkT3F4QqyvsiCnbj +EHkE/lXI+H/ABbqOn6T4q8TX5t5knvEhtbYDBifaF2yOOgB4J9Q1AHtNGRXjHgn4w/21faf p97DbC8lka3lWIsG3hiNwQjcFwU6jPzHoFJrb1LxqqzapraPJJpulS/YYreI/wDHxOzAFmwD hQeB+J9KAPTM0VwXww1m58UC91y9VoHkcwRWyh9sMakjqyrkscnOOmK3fHWvSeGfDV7q8Vi9 99mTeYkcLx3JJ6Ade9AFjxD4j07QI4G1KfY1xIIYY1Us8jnoFUZJrWRsrk8V856dqGp3kU3i zV7WC5165ulstMIm3Wtsuzd8gwAzLyOpy3Q16vZtr2neEnbVdTtxq1xMqQSXCBljLMAqHYF3 H6AcnHvQB29FNiz5a7iC2OSO5p1ABRRRQBHNJ5aMxDHAzhRk/lXPTeMLSGB5ZNP1lURSzE6f LgAcntXS0yWNZYnjdQysCpB6EelAHkVn8TdWuNU02T+yiNP1CXEVuttMZ/Jxnzd2NrcckDPB 613b+L7WOMs2n6yFHUnT5ePfpWB8PNBtNM8VeKTZ2wjhhmgghJcuUXyVYou4kquTnA4rs9a0 i31iy+yXpkNuWDPGrlQ4H8LY6r6jvQB4JqGsXPiCx0m00K31AlIr93uFilAIacFdmwhmIIHc KM9+ld58PtZn8O+GNN0e60bxRe3sUQ864mhDb5OrHcz5xmuq8OeE4dGktHjuHf7PbvAq7Qqk PL5hOB054x0rY1m5ubOwlmsLM3twuNsAkEe7JGeTwOMmgDlLP4hC516+0pPDevefaRpLIfJT GGzj+P2P5V0VprE9xCJF0XU0B7SeUp/LfXhus+J/G2p+JPFFj4e0OWyvHjgVrs3sWy0KqRtY 7WUn5g2AQfevbPA6XcXhfTo9R5u0hVZG8/z9xAxnfgZz16UAWn1K5Vc/2RfH/gUP/wAcqjpH iQ6hrd9pkmmXlpPaRpK7TNGVZXLBcbWJ/hPWugPSvJ/Gky2fxT0A6dBKt7eSRQ3E6STDMa72 2lf9URgN1OeeBQB6D4l16HQNOF5cQXE6mVIVjt03uzOwUADI7muQuPilFF4ni0X/AIR/VmuW I3D91uXKlh8ofPQH07Vk6hqdxqHxbbQtSklaytzDdQRxkqo4yCQqHcd6nlmCge9epGygdnka NDJIuxnC4Yr6Z60AeMeLPiRqNz4gm07QYtQSRPssTWyxqHWRpjuy+SqgrhcHn2rqPhlZ+I9K tdSu/EMGpXd3eXBkSEzKyQIOFVd8mQT1NdHZeDtHsrxZLa3VIkjiRIB91WjkaRXz1LbmJJPW unFAHnvin4gXWi3traN4evlmuAzI0zrsfbjKgxlzu5GBjmusvdZSxt4JJrS8cyAfLBA0rLxn kKOK1SM0ydmSCR0UO4UkKTjJ9M0Ac5P40063MX2uDUrWOWVYRJPZyRoGY4UFiMDJIFdMpyOt eP2+rXfir4hWWlarJYTWVorXc9jYv532eVSPL89yMN3IVehHNX9f8ZanY32tTadpl7cG2aOx tLaSB1jklOSZc4yRxgY9PegD1KivLNH+IuuagVhj8MSvcqY/NVXcbFbgk/Lwc5/75PPFeoxk leetADqKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKj EEYdnCgM3UjvUlFACbRkHvSkZGDRRQBlp4e0hHuHTTLNXuFKzMsKgyA9mIHNT2elWFlHJHaW cEEcjmR1jQKGY9WOOp96u0UAVksLRJPMS2hWTn5lQA8+9Ois7eFXWKCNA7b2CqBub1Pqfep6 KAGoioMKMU2eCO4iaKdFkjYYZWGQR6EVJRQBXSzto4kijgjWJMbUVQAuOmB2qRoY2VQyghSC M9qkooABwMUUUUAFFFFABVXUr6DTrOW6u32QxjLNgnH4DmrVBGRzQBwngLW7O+1/xKsHnBpr tZIy8TqJEEUa7hkDjII/Cu7HSk2jPQflS0AFc1470SbxBo40+O7ntIZZUM01vM0cioOSFI7n AH410tBGaAPD/AukeDbnxZr9odKhltmmijtfMjkdJmEQ8wkNxu3FuTXtGn2dtYWkdrZQRW9t ENqRRKFVR6ACnwwRxFjHGiFiWYqoGSe596loAQ9K8fvr+xu/ivJc30V20GnRxtbvb6cWLzZk jYNIELEAEYGcc17DSbR6CgDzzx5pem2d1ZeIoYbiG+N5bJPPC0nMQbncqnkbcjkd6W5+Lnhe 21NLAyXrvv8ALeVLR9kbYLANkA8gE8A16FtHoKo/2VZfb2vWtLc3ZUL5pjG/HpnrQB4/B48u dT1TSrw3epRwX7O0S2gjFtbW/JV5ywJ3FV3EccGu58N+PLS90a1ub2DUFmkXcfLsJmUjPBBC nqMHqetO0/4d6XaZie4vbiwEpmSxllBgUk5xtAG4ezZHFdkqhF2qAAOwoA4PXvidpmnTQ29t aXlzdSjcIpIzbnbkDI8wDcckAAZJrptZ17TtO2wXl7Fb3EsZeNGyWIHcKOTitCaytppopZbe F5YiTG7ICUJ6kHtUvlqWDFQWAxnHNAHitlLN/wALT0G5tr9NWLCaKSOCwa1W3RlyZGbo2Sqg A++K9pESlDkZz1yc04opbJUZ9cU6gDM0rSYrG6v7ne8k93L5jux6AAKqj2AH6mtMDFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABSE4HvS15p4 9S4OuRg6lqUsKRNcyWMD7I/LX5Qh2gMS7lep6BqAPRI7uCWWSKOVGkjxvUHJXPTI7VPXOeEo 7WygOlxRYubVIzO6xbVZiOu7ABPU8etdEfu0AKelNDgivOvGHxG/sjV59M0+1guLmJo4iJrj yi8khAVUGDnAYEk4GO+azbLV5C6Wkd/LJqEmrC3uTHIoM7Bckc/6uMYIAHLBR65oA9YBpa4n V/Ec8fihNLtiq21jbteX8okBbbtbagU888HI6cetQ6F8QLfWrC5nsLSeVoVhUptIJkkGQOR0 AIy3Tr6UAd5QK8k1T4g6nJ4E06/XT57e81C5WBfsxEuEz8zoemWGQgPJJFaOpfEzT9K1+DR9 0chWeK0laa4AkMjY4VerY3AknA9MnigD0qiuGvPH1vF4vGjQ2k8sKN5U12rAJHJsZyuDy2FG TjpkZqK98dSQ6Jbala6c901++2yt42O91GSXbj5Vxg9+o7mgDvqjmmSCNnlZURRksxwAPrWV DrPleHE1PU7aa2fyVkltwpd0Yj7uByTnjivCPFHjb/hMhqWoaqL3TfB+meSUtZIij6gzsQCx 6KmVI78ZPWgD6OjdZEDoQykZBHQilz61z/h/V7IeFLfUPK+waYkIaISfKFhA+U47DGMDrj0r i7FtU8WaxrMR1jUdHs7ee3uraLCiUoVGN27OFJRjtIHXn0oA9RMqhtuRu9KeGzXkNn/a9/4+ 1m6uryKLw9pgSKS73ku6ou4xA9B83LkZJ4FdN4F8R2uvajc3MM5meeMOkUbhltoQSED4PDsc tjr27UAdzTHcIMsQBXP+NPEY8PWUTJHHLdXMghgSWQRR7sEks5+6oAJP04rzY+MpNcsbvV9Y lsZdI0Sb5Y7KVil3c5AQksARGpOM9CQT2oA9rBzS1w3hvxxb6noV3qGwzRQSeQpt8sZ3HB2L 1ALcDPJ69KraN8SLfUdBu7z7Jsuor46dHbrOredLnAAI7euR2J5FAHoIYHpS150PGWn+HPE0 Xh24OpX17eytNJOFDx2+7nazZ+VQoJ6cAZrc8F+M7HxY99/Zsc3lWzKBK+NsobOCuD7Z5wcE HvQB1NFc/wCMvEtp4b0a6u7iSLzY4mkjieUIZcdQM1x9t8Rr6TxFp+jJpsF1O8hjvJrW4LJE QATtBGSFBGSdozwMmgD0/IzQzBRk15jL4wt5G1DxTeXrReH9LZoIIIXybiTO0uwB5yThVP19 Kw5PHuqa7BHfw2CxxR3TQWdutzj7TMBlmcnb8iLnj+JsexoA9rFITgZrzfW/Gms+HPDRn1bT o2v9jOsudluozhFdsn5zx8oz1HPWotV1p/F39neGVuLiwutQs1vbmayYuqR5AKCQdN3OG9ve gD04UV5nr3j6XRNfTSNM0xr+ys1jgu7rztvlyuyqka5+++DkjritP4heOo/Cxt4FSJ7ydC6L NJsU4OAoxksxPAAHucDmgDuaKp6VeJe2qyrw/G9CQSjd1OCeRVygAooooAKKKKACiiigAooo oAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooARuRgVyj+FrnULmWXV9XneN vlENon2YbM5ClwS5/Bh9K6yqF/rGnacF+331ta7jhfPlVN30yaALNtbpbwJFHnYgCjJycD3q btXP6Z4s0rVdS+x6XNJdttLNNDEzQrjsZANueegNdAOlAFW40+1uGDT28MjZDZdAeR06+lNO mWRvFuzaw/aV6S7BuH41cooApJpdkmoy362kAvZUEbziMb2UdAW6ke1WFgjUEKijPBwKlzRQ BjJ4a0tJrN0tURbPJt4kG2ONj/EEHy7uTzirDaLpzXT3LWVsbl2DNKYlLEgYBzjOQDWjRQBT j0yzjcuttCHJZiwQAkt94/U4Gapy+GdHkitIjp1qIrWQywIIgFjY9wOlbFFADCg2FT0xg+9e MaloDarr0ng7TNOfSfD/AJolvtkLZu4sZ/1vYFiFABzgHoBXtVNCjJOOaAK2nWUNnYw2tvGq QRIEROuAOKS70y0u45kuLeJ1mULIGQHeB0Bz1q5RQBS07S7PTrMWtlbxQ24LNsVQBkkkn8zT rTTrSzlmktbaGF5cF2jQKWx0zjrVuigCpqGnWmoxql9bQ3CKwdRLGGAYdDz3qO10jT7Uz+RZ 28fnv5koWMDe3HJ45PAq/RQBElvFGCI0RQeTtXGTVeLSrKKNI0tbdUR/MUCMAB/7w9+etXaK AOA+IT/2BafbtG8Ow6hqlwZIlfyuFLgZ3lQSd21V546ZIFXfhl4Mt/COh+RGXN1OfNuCSNoc 8kKo4ABJxjtXYFAccdKcKAKeo6ZZalD5WoWsFzGDkLLGHAPrzSwadawSyyRW8KSSgB2WMAtj pk96t0UAULHSLCxtzBZ2dtBCXLlIolVS3rgd/emX2h6ZftEb6wtbgwv5sfmxBtjeoz0PvWlR QBWvLK3vLdoLqGKaFsZSRAynHsakjgjjOUVQcAZAA4HQVLRQBlzaFp800cr2kJkjnN0p24/e kEb/AHOD1NchpXga7ufE39reK79dUa3DC1iZP3aEnO7YeAQOB17nPp6HRQBVsbC2sVdbSGOF XdpGCKFDMTkk471aoooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKAEZcgivHvibBpHh68sZ7Cwgl1W4mLyPOvnM0Y+UJufO0M7RjjGBn0r1n ULoWdpLOUkkEYztjTcx+gHU15jqGm3ni/VWvj4R2RGNUWXWLjy+F3Y2xJuP8Z6kZoA6X4a6n LqGhRT3k0J+0MzWiBVQtCvyh8DH3iC3A4DAV2PQVzvhbQW0+3tjfxaebq1QwW7WkBjWGHjCD JJxwO/auj7UAedfEf4gyaDE8ejQwXF3DNHFK077Ild2GIs93IyfRQMntngtX+LHiRPE+trp9 tYjS9OWS32TuEJmUfeLnHvhBy23tnNe6Xel2N4hS6tYJkLiTbJGrDcOjYI6+9POnWhVw1vEQ 53MCg+Y+p45oA8pn+Kps/EtjoZ8u4uCsMUreU6s0jBWYhVzgBTgDuzegJrqdT1aXVPGFvo1p ObeCzRbm5dXAaSTqsIHXGPmb2wO9deLOASiURL5g/iwM/nUEej2EV9NexWsMd5MAJJ1jAdwO xbGT0FAHnulavr011q3iO7AvLWyWS0s9PschbkhhmQlvcbc9BhjXpOmTvdafbzyRGF5Y1doy clCRnGe+K52HwBoEWmz6ettKbOdgzxtO7A4OQvJ+7nPy9Oa6iCJIYUiiULGgCqB2AoAfRRRQ AUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFc5468UweE9JS/uYpJozKsZSNSzYPUgD0AJ/CsnwZ8RdI13Tr Uz3lvDqUio0lqCSYy4LKp99vJ/GgDuaKwvCviSz8S201zpzh7eOZ4Q4IIfacZBHY1u0AFFFN Rg2cEHHpQA6iiigApu4Zxnn0okyEbaMnHFcL4N1C/ub3WLq/0i9trh23KbgYBA3BI0Hpgbif Vz7UAd3uHPIpC6hckgCvFrW58ZGO61eZNYX7cqQtaiJf9FcsSzRocnCrtQE8FiWPArf1fT/E FxpmieH7aUtciIXN9NcOdkqrx5TMq5O4kZxjIU9jQB6UjB1BU5B7il3Cuc8JpDpOl/2PFMJ7 mxH75EXaFLkuFUHoOeBngYrzuD4oXEdnd63cadcvbPqEdhb2aOpcKVLbti5PmEg8E91HHJIB 7RRXmifEm7k0pNRi0WTybhFktYJZBFM6j/WMwbhQCVUdSxP0rp/EfiiPQPCEmvXtrNsjiWV7 ddvmAtj5Rk4JycdfpQB0YOaWuA0PxVf6f4WhvvFduttqF1cFY7cSKdoYkgE9AFXJJyeAT7Vo weOLG409Ly0jmuVnnMFrFCAZLnAzuQEjjGTkkcDPcZAOuorjY/Hlo2tw6S9lepeMcSjajCA7 S2HIYjO0Z4zjIz1q5o3i+z1HT0vmR7e1muPs9u8mD5zFiowFJI5B4PP0oA6bNJmuW8f+IItE 0qItdpayzzCNZHx8qgFnIz1O0HA9cVleJvFdzZw6k2mqbmWOOK2itlUKTcy4KHcTjAUgn060 Ad+DkcUVw2n+N4YPEsXhq9jk+2JZ/aJLksjLkKCwYKSV7nkAcHFTeBfHaeLp7oQaTqNnbRqH inuowgmUnAIGcjPUZ7c0AdnRXmQ+JrDxVrsEtrEnh3SolMmoZOS5OOB/EMhhx0KmrXiT4j/2 ZcaVa2WnS3V5fZkMMh8to4QeXI5PTJAOOAfpQB6HRXGaj43Fj4k0rS3sJWXUSohm3qMggknb nOABznB9q07Hxl4evrsWtprFlLdFnXyllBfK53ce2D+VAHQUVh6X4r0LVriWDS9Ws7uaJPMd IZQxVfU47Vj6l4+srWXSPs8T3dtqUoijnjIAyWK/KCQWOeSB2yaAO0orhdH+IdtqUOozLYXS R2kAugwKESRlmGc7sK3yngkdK09E8ZWGsrbiyE3nzbswtHuaLBIJfbkAZBGc844zQB09FA6U UAFFFFABRSHgGoILy3nBME0UgDFSUcHBHUfUUAWKKYkiuSFZSR1APSn0ANYAjBpwrhvir4sX w1pCRRTpDe3bbImZwu0DG5hnjPIA9yOwNU9U8Zahp2qXgjit7vT7SxM85jBzFKduxC+T1yxP HCgE9aAPRaK4Kz8Zw2OoJZeItU0pLqe3FzDFbF+UClixZuMEKSPp1NL8P/Eep+K7qbUUNnHo 3IiQQyCY+m4nC/lnqOlAHeUUCigAooooAKTIpk7hImZjgDqT2ryCDx5r9prF+91Zzajp8UbM q28QiwSR5QKnJBYEHJbHtmgD2LIozXkkvxYhezbUGsbm1tI59kIZR/palW2gMxATkMeey+4r u/BWo3GsaSmq3EgEd6fNhh2YMUf8Kn1PGT9eKAOhooooAqanfxadaSXM6ysiY4ijZ2JJwMAc 1hTePPD1vb6fNdagluL9/Kt1kBDO+7btA9d3FVvidBeXOheTbzJFbO224BtTcu644VUyBnOD knAxXldrFoa6B4Qu9V1y7tdPsb6VLe22n97scrGcKD90hcnpyfWgD6EBBHFLXDfD/XbC6vL7 S7PUtS1CW2dnM19tJZdxX5CoGVyp6iq2vfEyw0XXZ7K7NrDbwTJA800zKWZhn5VCndge/X0o A9Corlp/Hvh2DS31CXVLcWqyiHzMnBY8gD145yOKq2fxD0aa7a0mmMd2sBuXiCM3lxn7pc4w CQRhevIFAG5rehwavPaPdZKW/mfIDjO9Sh/Qt+dcZbfDnQPCMy6rpv2+3htCZPJhPmE5QIT0 LEYGcZx1OK7rQdXtNc0yC/0+TzLaZdyNgg9ccg8g8VfIB68igDA8G6RYaDo1pYadM0kKxgxt I+WZcDn/APVW+PrXmHinSZb/AMT6qsr6lcQW1pDcx21lcvA77mZWXIIzwmQOMk1pWHgTQ7u1 hnS611RKgcK+qXIYA+oL8UAddrt6+n6VcXccJmMK7zGvUgcnHvis3wDdT3nhmznuoXgeRN6r J94qSSCR2JHOO2azH+HGjMuGutaIHQf2pcf/ABdcZqmsW/gzxGbXSTLKkCYZL27llM7nGERm YhCNyk5zw3SgD2iivKrv406Ta3kFnLpupGaRV3MkYKKxAOwHOWPPYVoaVbaB8Q/tGrRTa5C0 b+Q8Yu5rYAgAj5VbHRhz3oA9FJxTSq+g65ryKDVF8ManqNroEF/fySPHBbrdTXE/mSfNnBcn aFCtnHGCDmrPibWdd1TRtTtb3w9d27xXUUEQhuZE3blB3l4+dozg7SefoaAPUtqenvTsqT71 4Fa+KJPCGsanPBZTzafYgW9w9xdzzEzFtu0F22gbsnOCcL7itrRPGfiSU3eo3Gkw/Zwoe6ha c+ZG5UeVbxp13HchLEdXI7cAHqtpb3KaleTTzrJby7DDGFwY8DBBPfJ5qwbOAgAwoQrbgCM4 b1HvXEaB4QguHe71aK+tp5TuEC6vPKq8c5+YDrngcYruraGOCJYouEQAAZyfzoArXWlWV1LD Jc2kEskB3RM6AlDwcj06D8hUWu6NY65pc2napAtxaSgb4ySM4OQcjkEEA5rTqjqul22qQCG8 WQoDkeXK0Zz7FSDQBnWnhHRLbSrbTl02B7O3O6OOUb8N3bnvyeferlnoWmWc8MtpYwQPCjRx +Wu0IpOSABxzgVmjwbov8Ivv/Bhcf/F10MEYijCAkgDAycmgDLfw3pLmcmxjDThxIykqx3kF uQc8kDv2qO10KPTo7G20hY7eyhnaWaJgXL5DHgtkg7yGzWrdQLcwSRSFgjghtpIOPqORWCPB 2i9vt3/gxuP/AIugDaurG0uwFu7eKYA7gJEDAH1Ge9R3+kWN/B5N5aQzxFxIVkQEbh0P1p2m 6fBp0Cw2pk8pc4EkjSHn/aYk1cBB70AZDeG9JbVm1NrCBr8xiLzivzbRkY/In86m0nRdO0eJ 49MsoLRHOWESbQai1jQbDVJlmvftG5F2jy7mSIY+isBWNd+GNFhESompM8zFFMd7cOFOCcn5 8Acd+9AEuu2XhnS4Jmv9Otj9vkCvGluHedznA2jknk/Tk1Be+BtLv7mbUbeOazv5ogiyCVj5 WE2cJnaCFyPxNHwz0uG28O29yJWnkuAJDI5djnG3ILsT29a7EDAoAxD4Y0pr+K+lti93Eu2N 2lchPl25Ck4BxxkCskfD7w3bpmCwEBWJoldJGUqrJsJBz1wTz15PrWv4yNnH4fvJtTnuIbOK NnkaCVo3wOeCpB9vxrz34E6ZAdC1Ka7tZY7u7k3t5s0kpe3lUPGCWPXa2D7g0AVbe78N6St+ +nrJpV1Lbk/2ggNyqpI4VMdySsYwMYXFaGq6h4RvbmIa0JAYJ/sNo8dw5Z2A2s+1T8uC23cR nmuxTwP4fW+F2umwCcMr7sHqowo69AOg6VPJ4P0CWSOSTR7B3jkaZGaBSVdm3Mw44JIBzQB5 PrGqeCYotSs7QX1jaXU6aabmyY4lKgeYAG4AUL8zY7deeev+HP8AYeo31zd6DFeW9qAsOJXZ DK0ZILFDz14yepzXSx+CtAS3FuNMtjAJJJfLKZXc+d5x75rQ0XQ9P0WFotLtYraJjkrGuM8k /wBTQBpjpRRRQAhIA5pA6nvXmXjl/EWs6c0CJdaTYTTrDmB/37R9XkZlzsXaGwo5JwD6Hi4V 8R2/iX/in21VbGV1t7WV1l+4OSJFlzjHyjdgDaHA55oA9v8AEYv5NDv00V4k1BoWEDSfdV8H BP414LaaN4n0VrKHV4razkCPJay/axEhmkQJ5e4k428seCXbn1rqdEXx7d+K7nSdQmuoNDDv It/uHmuiyMNoOOCwZAAOyk965f4o+HPE1544tbSeWe9tr+NbHTruYQ+XbswZpSylc7tq8MoB 460AehfCvw/qGja1rj31gttFJ5ccUiShllVBjf6ljkks3PIHavR55UhgklkYKiKWYnsB1rmr Dw7q1tZwwjxPe/u0CcW0HYY7pmsjx1p3iSDwvfx6bqt1f3M0TpiSOFAi7TknCZPHYc5oAzPi D4q8I3Gkq+vSTxweXBOksduXYrLkgAgEjKgjt19a6TT/AAb4euLGeeGwliGpr5s+ZZEd9+GI b5sjPAI/A8Vw3hT4ePqkkkmv3F9OVs7NIrieKMHiPcQoZTtAJA6Z65Jr0T/hG7zH/Izaz+cP /wAboAg13wPo+qRAfZEhlGxRJFwwRcAqPYoCv0JxXTwRiONVAHAriPF2k6jp3hnVLy38T6x5 sNu7pkxdQD6R1JpemBpV06Pxnqkt5FEHaLzoWk2jA3EbM9xyaAO3ornP+EbvP+hn1r84f/jd V7nwpezqV/4SrXVB7o8Sn9EoA6uiuPg8GXKSbpPFfiKUejXKj+S1c/4RX/qO67/4F/8A1qAO ikICHNeMa3qPjQapqtz4fS8ks1cQ20EtmqrMxYhnzsDKEVeCSQ24c9q9Dl8KEoca7rue3+l/ /WrgLG08f6XEtkkRuLYMubiW/wB8xzMxc8jGSu0D0Gep4oArWXi3xDYzXB8Q6de6oYZ1jW0t dOwBHt/1zEjOeGG0dx6c10uoL4q1y+8Lz6fGNJ05ds94jgl8lSdhHGAMY5HVunFZdzpXj8at bEy2ktqLySYmOcrt3JhMg8+Wn9wZJIz3ras/CR07Srh5b3Xbu5R3IWLU5UMpJ68OFGevQYoA 9BU4QZ7CkWRWOFOe1eO6Ba6pr9xd6fIfEGkXS2MVxHNJqNy6CRyflyXwcDGRjrmu8Twos800 93e3sU8rBiLO6lgQADA4Vhk4HJNAFnxvoR8RaDPp4uJYo5P9YsWzMq4PyEsCADxzjNeL+JfB 2nR3/hxNVutRub7TLSMSQ2oVFt/mLFmkZgqgnoDzheK9j/4RC2/6Ceuf+DW4/wDi68s13w5o ogv9M8T3UtqJrqaX7RKrzzzq3EeyRg2QFAGOTkY9cgHe/DHTvD9lFdy6DafZ5ZtglyVbKqu1 SGUkMODyDyc5rYvfCGkXV5bXMkMivbtK6qkjBS0hy5IzySeawfBmhA20Vxbx3mn2ENtHZ2cZ cxymJM/O4GMEk555x9adoMc+vXWqRSya1ZwQS7YJTdMPNHQ8djkHj0IoAsD4beEhpFpp0mni S0tXaRFedzlmADFufmyAOvFZ3iPTNH8OyTXunaPLeXt7cRcCUiNXBVFJ6gY4PQnj2plv4Avb TT9eU6rJcXerKsLSsSSibjliWzuYKxA6cAD3rofh74XTwz4eWyLeY7TPM546k8dAOihR0oA5 PRPEFl4attZg0mB30rRz/pDszSyzNt/gb7vBGCM8Y6c11fgfxnZeLoZpbCG8hWNVYi4i2Eht 2Mc/7J/SulNrCUZDEmxuq7Rg0sNvDD/qoo0/3VAoAx7WD/isb+bGCbKFPyeQ/wBaxL3QBeeM kS/nuWtzbSSp5E8sDKd6DBKOMjHaujth/wAVHeN/07RD/wAeelcf8VLGfS1P/oYoA53xF4Ys 7LSJ5rQ6vJKo4/4mtz8o7t/rOwycd6s+EPC9jaWEV1c6ciajcRxvcPLK1w+8AfxuSTjHFdXJ GssbJIoZGGCCOopQAAABgCgCkdKsWBDWkDZfzOUH3v731461Qn8LaXNHHGIp7dE6C0uZLfPA Xny2XPCgc+lbtFAHPWvhDTLa8guon1FpYW3J5uoTyAH6M5BrX1Kyi1Cze2nMojfGTFK0bcHP DKQR+dWqiknjiwZHVASACxxkntQBz8ngvSpQRI+pkMckf2ncYP4b614NKs4PM8uBQ0m0ux5Z iAACT1JGByakv72OxtJbmVZGjjUswjQu2B6KOSa5668e6LZ+H7vWLxrm3tbWcW0qywssgkIU hdp5JwwoAdJ4F0aW485zqnmZJyNUuR1+kla+j6PbaSsi2j3TLIQT59zJMfwLsSKxtP8AH+gX 8mkxW95mbVButozGwZhgnkY+XhW6+hroBqNsbk24miM6kAx7xuBPI469qALdFUb7VbKxkWO7 uYYXcEqHcLnBA7/UVHb6zZzyxokq4lAMTk4EoIyNh/i454oAwn+HmgtePdEamJmfzCV1S6Ub s54AkwPoK3tJ0m30qORLRrlg5yfPuZJznp1diahuvEGnwabeXouI5YbUlZPKYNhx/Bx/ETgY 9TSadr9ldP5DzQw3ixiSS3aVS8fTg4PuPzoA1yMgg965dPAmircy3CDUkkkJJ26ncgZJ7ASY Fbc+qWkDTLLcwI0UfmuGkAKp/eI7D3rm9K8fabqOtaRpsO3ztShmuIiJVI2I2FPHUsMkDsAc 9KAOk0zTINNgMNqZyhOf307yn/vpyTVfVNAs9TlV7p71WUYHkXksA/EIwB/GtaigDjNb8EWs 1hIljc6pHNlTubVbnBXcNw5c9RkZxxVn4a2xg8G6W7BAZoFlIQEDLAHuST9Sa6af/VPxk46V ieAUePwVoUcqlXWziVgeoO0ZoAj+HWD4K0n/AK5f1NdHUVtBFbQrFbxpHGvAVBgD8KloAxfG LxQ+G9RnuIlmSGB5djDIyoyP1AqTwvZ/YfD+m2xbc1vbRRFh32oB/SrWr2KalptzZSnEc8Zj bA7EYqzDGI41RegGKAH0UUUAFFFFABRRRQB5t8X/AO2dStrLQfDpaO4u5UM0+0kRJuGDwPXn BxkKRnmqw8HaxrGtWaaxNGdH0yFLcRski/amwC74D4xwoG7d0NeobBuz3p1ADY1CoFAwAAK5 LxvGza74PZVJVNUyxHbMEuK6+uS8aTGLWvCkY5E2qAdOmIZTQB1o6UUDpRQAmB6UN0NLSEZG KAPnrx5rXjW7m13Sbfz7rTciG4LWUKpDGx5w4lBLYPCkZ6ZxXUfCDw/PoeuXk93pN7ZtLb7W ubm2hj8z58gZjlbnnpgDAHpXQfFa0hsvA16LONIDLeWruUGNzNdRbifUnvWP4/g12a9tp7mK Z9FtXNx5Fq/E2wDYsh4JLuVG0cAAk54wAepTTRQRNLNIkcajLMzYAHqTUGn6jZajC01hdQXM QbaXhcOAfTIrzrxHpniS/vHvLp5fKsrN5ba3tACr3DgooIP3yoyTu4+YccZOP4a8K+K/C2px Np0zSaZBA5kgDqPtd06gl2UAYG5sDpgR+9AHq9zrelWt3Ha3OpWUN1KwVIZJ1V2J7BScmtGu O8I+C49Gu5r27umvruYbi8sMYZHJyxVgoY5OepOOldiBgUAZfinU/wCxfDmp6oU8wWVvJcFc 43BFLY/SvMLrwV4i13T7TU11K6sNTvLJpLkw3TKFlZkKIAMjYi7sAYyevWu2+LThPhn4oJba Dp8y59yhAH4nj8a6HR8/2TZZ5PkJ/wCgigDym48EeL7S1muINfvri5j+0yRILggt08mM5GDk gljjqQBgV0guQfAH9qx6XcG4uY/NltopSHDZ5y/XA55Hbpmu6nbbDIc4wpOay/CZ8zwzprFg +6FTn1oA4/4T3H26bV3ksL20mt2jt5BPPLIrOBltpdj/ABZxwOMetekYxUaRpHu2DGeTTwQa AFpMClrnfF/i2w8K2/n6n5iwiJ5mdVyFVWQEn8XH60Aaes6jBpNjJeXTFYkIGFUsWJOAAByS SQMV5bL8XP7OUtJ4eudksjOojYZVS5RGk7KGYH5s4Ax1zXZeC/Gdh43gubrSbe4bS4n2JdTR 7BM4POwHnA9eK1dLn0/UftJtlhlhjbYWQAg47fgc8UAcpcfFPTLKeCLUbPULdniSSRvJ3LHn OQSPTa2T04PocaOnfEXQ9Q8QR6PbSztdy7hGTCwVioyQD9Oa1ta/sPTrO51PVYbaOCBd0s0k YO1Rnrxnufzql4TvfDGvySX2hRQvNbyFWkNu0TqzDdnDAHBDZz3yaAOqU5FYvijxLp3hu1Wf VJ2hjYkAiNn6Ak8KDxgVt4rh/iH4MPiI/boHD39rF/okUpxEJA24E8HuF/DI7mgDP8T+MJvD GtyapdWckmimCKOdkU+bCS7bWA/iBzyByPQ1Z8J69PrOvJf3hjitb22zYwoQ21AwzvccbyTn aDwAe9Ot/DM9549mv9Zu/tcFnbxfYoMYWNjkPIw6M2RwewPFV5vCklt8RYbzS7p7OxW0eZrC 3Zo4p5ydoeQA4OM56duaAN3VPGmlWc8sEE63l1CxE0Fuys8KgZZ3GRtUcZPvjqa5eb4nyQXG sF7O2kt7NIjCI5yHmaQkop3qoUlRnGSee9M+HHhLWdH1/wA7XVWZHt5HBEodYpndWkI+Vfvk sehwEAzzXoo0qzV5nW3i3ysHclc5YAAH8ABQBxcHxR0xbu7h1KGWwFqkZd5mUjzGIHl4ByCC 3UgA4PpVTUfiHPfazo+n+FbU3sl7CLhi3yhYiQck54+Xn8V9a6mx8M2739zqGqQW013MxACo NqL2+rYAyx+nSteHSrKC5FxDawx3ATy/MVAG28cZ9OB+VAFuIkxqWADY5ArN1rQrDWYwmo26 TqFZV3DO3cMEj0OO9ag4FFAHMy+HJodHurSz1C4kmuOHmvCZiFxggAFQOOOKw7z4Z6dd+CYv DcsswtvtAuHlQBWZtxLdOBkEgenHpW54l8WWWjukIntHui21oZLqOIoMH5m3MOOO2TXPWfxI gk1Keznn0VXSEy7o9SDLnIAUsVA5GTxnGOaANTQvh7pOjaql7ZmbESKkEBYbIiE2bh3Jx3J7 n1NZl38KdHm1631aN5o7qCRXjPXaAQcZ6nPzcnn5j6Crtn8QdLOhSahe3tgkisVEcV0HDc4B BIBwfp0qxpHjSyum8y61HRordlyhS/V2b8MDHbvQBN4g8D6Xr2u2uqakZ5ZrUL5Ue/EYxuzk d87ufoKjTwLp8c+nSxz3A+wlmQOQ+XKsC+SOGyxOR3q/P4r0T7K8kOr6c5UZx9pT396zfAvi tfEMl6v2i3m8h9g8kfxDO7ucrngNxnmgCrp3w5srPw2NJjubgEXEdy0+FLM6dDggjt3781ge IvhVaXGiamt3cXV4kzS3DxxQqZZnOdpJz8xBJIGQMheBivW6TFAHmPgzwpa3ia79ptdRtIbm P7B5dy6+ZswN5DL26KDk8JXSaN4F0jStYj1K2WdrpFCBpJC2cKVHX0Bb/vo+tdSqhScU6gAo oooAbI21WPpVbS72PUNOt7uDcIpkDruGDg+1WJBuUgVR0G1ksdFs7abBliiCMR6igCn4FuZr zwpp1xdSNLNJHuZ26k5NbtZ3h/TV0jR7WwSRpFgXaHYYJ5NaNABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQA UUUUAFct4xOdU8MZHI1NSP8Av1KK6ntXH+J9I1+/1G0ubI6Uy2U/2i2WfzAwOwr8xBx0Y9qA OwoqtppujYwHUFhW7KDzRCSUDd9uecVZoAKKKQ9OKAOM+LqGTwXOoZV/0m05Y4H/AB8xV18K holDAH8K434g6L4g8Q2n9m6a2mw2DtFJJNOXMoZJFkACjjGVA69zW/4bOti3kXxBHYJKHxGb NmKlfU7hnNAGvtGMYo2j0FLRQAUUUUAZfijRLbxF4fv9Ivi4tryIxOUOGAPce9cmngfXotyW /jrWI4FULEnkQHZjpzt5FegUUAcmPDms+RtfxbqLHof9Gtxn/wAc+lcXa+CfGo0O1/sPx5Nb L5YKRTWMbBec4yOcV6L4ji16VIl8PXFhbtn9415C0gI7YCsMVS8N2niaxdItVn0me0Vdqi1i eNl/76Y5oA5+28FeMEgVrj4h3zSAAsI7GEAnv1HStLw9oGtvZt/bOq3UF0cBpLSQbpMZG5ty lRnIOFAxxzXar05paAOal8PzxRs7eItd2qMn54j/AO068o1fQNV8S+KtPj1CbWH0SRoFEU6g u8ZkLkyYQBV/dDjtkZr3ys3WtSttIspLy5WVlQc+VGXbH0HQe54HegClZ+GLWzgWG0ubuCFe iRuFUfgBipLbw/FbJIsN3eLvYu2JMZJ7nAqWbxBp1tYWl3c3IihuiqxFlOWLDIGMZ6c+2Dmo LLxZod5LcxQ6lDvt5PKkD5T5ueAWwD0PIyOD6UAcZq3w91H+yNWtrLUlubjVpEjuZrsMMW65 JXCnljkjPHB4xiuk+G3hCHwdoBsYmjeR5WlkaOMoMnGAMknAAAGSata/4ot9LuLa1it7i+vJ 13pDbqCducBiSQAM4HJ/rW9buZIUdlKMRkqcZU+hxxQBJRiiigDMtsf2/ecj/UR/+hPUTyL/ AMJSY8/OLRW6di5H9Kr2E7N4t1ZGUCOO2gwfUkyZ/lWPca7Ha+OCl3NBBbyxxWkZkOGeTLvx 7YIGO56dKAO3AFLTUYMoK9KdQAUUUUAFFFV9QvrbTrR7q+mSC3TG53OAMnA/WgCrrFhJdRj7 KLZJSeXmi38fmK5PVPh6upRKk2pzoNwkfykCbnyckgdR0G08cd67Cy1WxvmC2l1FMxjEoCNk 7CcBvpxVG01+G91S7s7RRItsuJJdwwH/ALoHU4zyenb1oAdP4esrjTIrJk8pUxhoD5Z49xzi myeG9PNrBbC3jEEP3UK7gSOhOevc81V0nxRHe+IJtJeAxTpCZ/8AWo+FBA52kkHJ7+hpdL8X 2GoRzXEazRacmdt7MoSGTDbcqSc9QeooAh0/wTpdpcxziMtKrB2dics2WOT26sf0HSulhtoY f9VEiHGMqoFYfiTxTYaJp32ueZDFvVOHAPJxxkjJ9hW5aTJcW0c0bKyOoYFTkGgCaiiigAoo ooAKKKKACkPQ02YlY2IrL8KX82qeHrO8uFVZpkJYJ06kf0oAg8DalNq3hiyvbpt08gbeQMZI Yj+lb1ZXhfSRoeiW+niUyiHcA5GM5Ynp+NabglSAcUAZPiTxHpnh2xN1qt0kKZ2ovV5G7Kqj knkcCs3RfGmn6trk2n2zfcQsrscbipw4A9ASBnuQwHQ1DL4KguNXtNRvp5Lq5inMzNIBg8HY oH8KqcHA6kAmsz/hXMCWuryWrW9nq+ou4N/DbrviiY/dX0O0cn1JNAHoKOrjKsCOvBp1cZ8P vB954Xlujda1c6lFLGiqs2flYFixAycA5AwPSuzoAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoooo AMUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAGKKKKACiiigArhvifoul6jpT3GtatqdhbRRlSLS4KKxJ6lQDu PsQR7V3NYXiy20650yUapO0EWxl8xW2sAeu33IyPxoA84vNN0LxNDHBqutvJFBKl3D5Ujh1t hHhQ3A2lwCTjk9utSav8PPBd5ojQS3Ukf2WITtLJNvkRCG2lg4OBz6A8AVDLf6FfIL+1sNRS DVJfsasBHGzJGQC6hhu2jbn2Ck8Vd1DTtBm0GT7VbveNrN0I0a5k2POhbgnaM7BkkDvx3NAH UWek+HY9a/tAi2u75oY2ikl2uYYkXC7D/Cvf6mrviHxTY6PpX2lC1w8h8q3jgVpDJJjhPlBx /Tn0rgdX1jw5pev6isFtd3bRR+RdzByIokYBSgbgZ+TAAOck++PQrTQdLuba1kt0BtBulRI2 /dsW5JPrQBt2svnQRyYIDKGwRgj61DqN/b6dbtPeSpFCvVmYD8KtKAowBgCqt5p9teSwyXME crQPviLrnY3TI96AOLvnvIm1nVZbG/e1niCPHC4SQQrnDIPvb/mY4yO2K1tGTw94n8LRxWUc N1pjRiMI4yUx2YHkMCO/INdRtGMVyuseGGivG1Tw00dhqp5kGP3N17SqP0YcigCgJdW8GEic XWseH16SL+8urUd93eRAO4+Ye9dfpmoW2p2MN5YzJNbTLuSRTkMKxfD3iaPULhrDUoG03V0G XtJiMsP70bdHX3H44pfFGmarLHaz+GryO1urZiTBKmYZ1PVWA5B9GHI59aAOkorGGtw213Z2 Wpslte3EYYKc7GbuquQAT7dcdq2AwPQ0ALTJYklXbIoZcg4I7+tPooApWml2NlLPLZ2kEEs7 bpnjjCmQ+rEdfxrF0HwjZ6Pq17qEDytPdOxbcwwAzbiBgD+LnnJFdPRQBhf8IxpyXeo3UMIi uL4KJpY/kfAHQMOR6/WoZPB2kzab9hmgZ7fa64aRv4ySx+pyefeuj4pMjpQByPhrwFpGiNdb IUuFmcSbZo1IQ8/d49z+GB2rq4IY7eFIYI0jiQBVRBgKPQCpKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAGSjcj D1rP8OWB0rRLayZtxhUrnOe5P9a06htrmG7t1mtpUlib7rocg9utAGT4J1t/EPhy31KSIQtK 8i7AcgbJGT/2XP41uVy3w0sn07wnFaSrtaK5uRj28+Qg/ka6mgAxRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQ AUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABSE4HNLUF6sz2ky2zIk5QhGcZUN2yO4zQBSsNWjvNR1C2 j2lbR1iZg2fnKhivtgMv51pBs15DF8MtYWzRX1cfaby4MmoTWpa3ypLsMAZLEF+5H3QOnB10 8IeJX8VTSzeI5U0B3dvs0RYS4JU43545BHHbgYyaAPRpHEaFm6CoLW+huraO4gYtFINyHGMj t1rH8ZafqepaHJYaVJBG052SvMzjEf8AEAV5yRxnIxnNcPo3w71ax13S5JNTabTLCJBDEJGV VILMRs69WGDu4UBTkZoA9YDUoOa89/4RnxE+kPG+qxLfT3BkuZQ0hV0AbaqjI2jJXgY4GOe7 LnSPG1voOm2unanZteRQss80hbDOWUBhlTnC7z2GccY4oA9FzRmuJ+z+Jr5tYjm22JNuIbKZ Jg2W53SEbeCeMdcVqeDdHudB0AWt1dSXlwJHffJIWPJ4XcQM/kKANiLULea+ns45N1xAqtIo H3d2cc+vHSm31hbXuw3MQdo87CeqkjBI98Vw9lZ+JJ/D96FtYLDVrm8eSUyXBw6E/wALICR8 oVR0PGeDVfStE8U2Xh7S9NGpQT3UcnmXTNcybgOqjccsy57ccADPU0AbN34Y0K6urfR5UuHi gtCiWyykRxoQUyQO5G4An3qLU9A0TRb2y1gJKr2Uf2O0t0f92NzcBVPAJJHP9M1X0Xw3q1nq HiC+ur2OfVLoZtJ8ERxEqQAEycAYHXJPP0rF8G+B1vr6STxDcPqf2KYtuaRvJluGADMFzyFA C5P8Rc4FAHXXngvSb26SeRJIlEnmNHE+1Gbnkj6knjHJPrXSxyRQhYlIUAYAqlNodnNMZJFk Y4xjzH2j6DOB+FTRaPp8bBxZW/mAY3GME0ADaxp6glr23wDg/vBx+tOOowDft8x9hCnbGT1/ nVHxDfHTV08W6xB7m8ityGGPlLfNj32g4rZVVPOAfegCBboO5RY5SQcE7MD9a57UNR8QprSW 1lp9u1q4GJJ5NuMHnlc9ugx+ldSAAcgDNGB6UAZOu6BY65aeXfRnzFO6OeM7ZYm7MjDkH6Vm Wk2r+H7W7bWp01CxgAMU8MR+0Fc4O9RwxHXK44B4rqqayg9QKAMx10rxFpylhb31nLhlPDKf Q/WszVLXX7PVBeaNNBdWr7Vmsbg7MAfxRuOh9QQQcdq0m0aGCC8/skJYXNy29pYo1OX/ALxB 4NVbC71Sztbj+2rdJGhPyy2m5vNX12Yyp9smgDRg1S0lvpLJJ0N5GoZ4s/MAe/uPer9YkI0j XZbe8UW9xLaPujf+OJsc+6nHY02+03VDeGfS9X8lGxut54BLH9Rghgfxx7UAbtYfim71K2s4 xosAnvHkACN93AyTk9sgYz2LVUvbrxLaXkn2LT9Ov7PB2k3TwyZ9D8jCom1rxCbV2fwqwcAn H2+Mjj8P6UAVNG8S6kojg1i2MV2EnlmIiYRx7TlFDYOflPXuQfpVnw9reo6prGxooVsFt1l8 wEhnZumBjoAPXvSXWteJIgosvDMd4O8kl+sIP0G1j+eKZa674qLn7R4OhjT1i1RHP5FB/OgD sqKqxTztZ+ZLbmObbkxbw2D6ZHFYiazr5RS3hd9xAzi+jOKAOloqhpV1d3VuXvrI2UuceWZB Jx65HFVNS1LVLa8MVlor3kW0HzBcpHz6YPNAG1RWFY6pq81yI7vQntYSDmU3SPj8BzV3VLy6 tERrWxe7JbBVZAuB680AaFFZ8F5dySKsmnTRKxwXMiED8jUesajdWPlfZdMub8vncIGQbfru YUAaE2fLbb1rnfhvz4I0k9jET/48arat4i1mOwme18K6i0wHyh5IcdfZ81f8E2r6d4W02yuM LcwwqJE4BUnnBA6UAb6KFGFHHWlrnvAl9daj4fS4vpPMn8+eMtgDhZXUdPYCuhoAKihuIpjI IpFfy22NtOdreh96exA6nFcv8PFA0e7maXzJbnULqViT/wBNmUAfQKtAHVUUUUAFFIc44pR0 560AFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABTXzt4p1FAHmun+ GPFlx4ikutU1x7fSiZ8Wds53ENLlPn6j5QOnTJAxk0/xpofiq+8O2kOmXQGrSTp580Evk+Wu /dnfjJVRwB3zzXo2BRgUAebeGvC3iRPHV1rOu6nLJap+7t4VnPllNoGDGABnOTk5yfSvRLa3 it1KwqFUknAGOSck/nUuBS0AFB6GisfVvEmkaTIY9T1KztZMZ2TTKjEeoBOTQB5J4sutYufG 8dtbNqkumreLduy2krtZFY2RljYDawbIIwTg5yK9k0GeO50q3kiS5RNuAtyhWQY4+YHnNT27 wzxLLCyOkgDBlOQwPQg1YAwOKACiuA8V+OT4Z1TWTcW11eWtlaW83lW0YL7pHkXOSQMfKMk9 Kw7b4q3+1p7rwp4jkR1DRQWmmTOR/vSMFU9unHuaAPW6K4bwf411TxBqpt5/B2t6TaCPf9pv wiDPYbc5zXbsSFJHXFAC5oxmvL7jUtdPxV0/T4NTnmsCJJLiJIlEcaBThSNuRzs+fd1OMVse ENW8Qat4n1GS+jmttHiDxpBLaGM7w+FIcnLfKpJwMfMBk4NAHVXGk2s63AeMKbhNkjp8jsP9 4YP61XsdIlsrGa3j1K9lLH5JJ2V3jHoCRz+Oa5TxT4z1XQNWUHS2u7PazGG3IaYqCArkkgDJ OAvJNdF4P8Rw+JtKN9aQTRQea8aGXHz7TgkYzkZyPwOM0AZsUPjOzknUTaTqMZYmNpVaBwvP B27h6VTu/EXjW1s5CPBi3Fwg3Ew38ZjPB6Zw3p2rZutY1azvbiN9BubuAH9zNbTxkEf7Qcrt PT1rz/QfHvim61rVNO1Hw9cXmlork30OFFvgcxs33WYdypoA7TTtU8THMj6EkyOisMXSx4bH PBGfz5q8ureIC4DeHFVe5+3IcfpXI2fi3xLB4u1DRY9AM1rYwL5I89Va4XA+cO3HtjHGeTyK 6nQNe1i9uRFqXhy708MfvvcRSIox/snPX2NAHQzPKtszRx75guQmcZPpmsIat4hAwfDan3F+ n+FdIBxRigCK2eR4VaaPy3IBK5zg+mararcXlvAHsLIXkuceWZRHx65NT3rmKzmdJEiZUJDv 91TjqfavIrTx/q8F1qt3LI0+maWPJuWuFhiRp2IWMI6MwC5I3bjlR15oA9FtNS1yW5jS40Jb eEnDSfbFfaPXAHNXNYutRtvKOm6eL0k/ODMItv59a57wLr2r3nhabUvEdvH5qyOYhZxOfNjB +Uqp+bnoM9cA96yJfizp9nqVxZahpOrQyxyGMbIlkywQOV+Vj8wB5xkDuRQB1drqWuy3EST6 CkETN88n2xX2j1wBzWzdyTR2zvbxCaULlY923cfTJ6VV8PapBrmh2OqWiusF5CkyBxhgGGcE etWL+eS2tJZYoJLiRVJWKMgM59ASQPzNAGJ/a3iDn/imh/4Hp/hWTqdxrkcj6jF4a23kcZVd t8pDjsGVV+YA8jv6dau/2/rzBWh8LzgM20ia7iVh74BPH41zA8YeMG8YtpUXh62uYOGkKXOD aqcY8xsFSSMkAc0Adb4AtbrTNAW21HZ5xnmlUqMZDyM/IPT71dP2rkfDFvLrPhjRL25uJRex rvEwPzEkkEHsQRxz/MV1q8DBOaAOc8bQ313pps7HT2uxOCrOlwIWiPZgT3BFc38J/D/iLQbf yfEYimky5E6XJbALFsFMYySxJIPJ+lejkhepAoHSgBaKKKACig9OBmgdKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigArzTxh4b8V6nrt42k XWnWOmShN+E/fTgcOGbblcjgEHjHTnj0uigDhvEPhbUL4WNrp961hp1tFFGsdu7Iy/vFLkH1 CLhf945roPCemXOkaSbS8u5LtxNIyySOztsLkqCWJJwCBVK68b6Ha8S3Mu/zBCFFtISzk4Cq NvJOD0rd029i1CzjubcSCJxkCSNo2/FWAIoAr3Gj2NzLdPcW0UhuYRBNvUHfGM/Kfb5j+dO0 bSrXSLNbWxiEVupJWMdFz2HoPbpVi7uUtbd5pA7KvOEQsx+gHJrKfxJbRgiS2v0fYHCm1c7v bgHmgDbAx6UtV7C4a6tY5mhkhL87JBhh9asUAN2jdnAz0zS49AKWk3AkgHpQA0xqSSVXPTOK SGJIkCRoqIOiqMAfhUlFACYpnkx+W6bFCtnIA4OakooAjWFFcsEUNjGcc4p+KWigAooooAju IY7i3khnRZIpFKujDIYHqCPSqen6Pp+n2P2OysrWC1znyo4lVPyAxWhRQA3aNuMDGMVi3nhb SLqCaKSwtwsqyoxEYziT7/Pv3+lblFAFbTbOLT7C3s7ZdsEEaxoPRQMCrJoooATA70xY1VmZ VUM3UgcmpKKAGQxpDGEjVUQdFUYApx6GlooA8o+INhrmta+tva+G2nso9sBvJLlSFVyMyRxk 43KMjJwR19ql8TT/ABAs5Jm8N2VvNbQS+VbwTYJliWE5dm3AjL4AH516Jq2ow6Xb+fPHcSJn GIIWlYe+1QTWXpnizTtSvxa2iXjvkqX+ztsXAyct0H445oA2dNM7WMBvAouTGvmhegbHOPxz Vmsi58Q6dbXEsEtwoliQvKvXYAM8+nFVrbxdo0622L6JXuI2ljR/lYqpwxIPTB4+tAHQUVzq a+Yb5Y9RNpbxysywgT73lwcZC4+nfqQKvaZrtlqOo3ljbSFri0x5qkdAc45/A0AalFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR2oooA8s8b +GV1vx3o1tcXsryN5l7HuHy2oiChNg9S77iSedoFeoxrtTFIYlMgfA3AYBxzT6AMvxJerYaR cTtPDAwUiOSZtqBzwuT6ZxXkuhXPi2bwlq99p0/229lQpFOsv2hFeNfmaPOM7mJAUAKNuee/ tcsayxlJFDKeoIyDTLa2htoVit40jjXoqKAB+AoA811LU/GH9pW9lAjrDp9ulxfTwwf8ffyF ike7ODuCrgZPJPGBmSx8W+Io/DeoXuoaRMl+JEtbK1kTDTSsM7jgkBMn8AhJ5Nel4FG0dxQB 5Jf/ABB1zTvDWkPdadFHrGpMxXzt6wwoG2rvOMgtleDjr7V6P4dsXs7FfPna4uZSZJZm/jY8 8DsOwHYAVoS28cq7ZEVx1+YA1IBigBaKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiig AooooAz9csX1HTpbaK6ktWkG0yx43AZGcemRkZ965D4VeF5dF0+/nvoZYLq6vbiTypGB8uMy HYFxxjaFOPc9Mmu/oxQBxmo/DzR9QmuJbuNpJJycvkBgCc4BAz17k57ZxxR/wr7TGkRpZbl9 kiso34wigbY+OSuQD9QK7OigDiU8C6fp0MMtlAZrq2dmt/NmKhNwxjgdO/Q85PU1reEvDseh WzZfzrqUASTHPOOgGe3JPqSST1roKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooo oAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAC iiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooo oAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAC iiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACjNB6GuHv/Esr6xLbsPstja7pHmJZS2wgYPGACfTP A9xQB3FFcdfa3eWt1cSCOY21pbSTSkDIZgM7QAMkDPGOTg1cu9euI9Ot54NPneSWcQmI8FQT jcfQDuaAOjZgvU4oVgwyDkVyd3f3Mf8ApF/5e2wjaebynwjOQQq849Sef9mo4tUubjUPsOle VFNCQ8yOrbWLDLfQcgj1NAHZUVysviRlbUo5Imh+ynZ5r4wX/hA5GSRz+IpbXXii232yaNHM DXUwZSGWMDPI/hIyOvvQB1NFZ+kXjX9utz5ZjhlAaLdkMy4HJBHH0rQoAKKKKACiiigD/9k= --------------060701090508070004010308-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2362 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 07:43:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 07:43:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14252 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2002 07:43:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2002 07:43:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nydJ-0008BR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:13:17 +0000 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nydH-0008BJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:13:15 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA14216 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:34:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:34:31 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Junk mail via lf reflector To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203210234_MC3-F65C-A67C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-Group, >There have been a number of instances recently (one today) of spam being sent via the >lf reflector. The reflector is in fact configured so that anybody can post (try it >with one of your alternate email addresses), but obviously only those subscribed will >receive postings. Perhaps it is time to change this, ie so that only those >subscribed can post. ... I believe the reason for this spam-mail is that some of us (me included) have posted the rsgb reflector e-mail address on their websites, so that new LF hams have access to this valuable tool to exchange information. Obviously some meta-crawlers search the Internet and try to find useful e-mail addresses where they can send their spam mail to. It also happens from time to time that I get mail to my own e-mail address that I posted as a contact address at my website. I think Dave's suggestion to limit the access to this reflector to subscribers would stop this. Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9711 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 21:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 21:39:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 7290 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 21:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 21:39:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16npCt-0006sY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16npCr-0006sR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:09:22 +0000 Received: from host213-122-71-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.71.132] helo=presario-1920) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16nnfy-0002Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:31:19 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Junk mail via lf reflector Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:34:10 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000901c1ce96$bc7cdb40$c709073e@dave> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'll take this up with the sysop... John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sergeant Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 16:05 To: rsgb_lf_group Subject: LF: Junk mail via lf reflector There have been a number of instances recently (one today) of spam being sent via the lf reflector. The reflector is in fact configured so that anybody can post (try it with one of your alternate email addresses), but obviously only those subscribed will receive postings. Perhaps it is time to change this, ie so that only those subscribed can post. Perhaps the sysops of the list would comment. Spam is getting more and more of a nuisance. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16467 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 15:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 15:12:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4347 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 15:12:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 15:12:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16njE1-0005vb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:46:09 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16njDy-0005vW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:46:06 +0000 Received: from [62.21.138.96] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16nhgz-0006Nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:07:57 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161123.009fbec0@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:13:44 +0100 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: Re: LF: Proximity effect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040206020707000806080702" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040206020707000806080702 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

John, G3CNN, wrote


Surprisingly that particular graph is not in my second edition. Is there another book? Mine is simply entitled Radio Engineering.
73, John, G4CNN

I also possess Radio Engineering by Terman and it is fine as a textbook. But as a reference manual Radio Engineers Handbook is much more useful, in fact it is still a superb piece of work. Look out for a copy!
I attach the title page.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE  --------------040206020707000806080702 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Terman.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Terman.gif" R0lGODdhxQJIBPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA /4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA/4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/ QID/gID//6AAAKAAQKAAgKAA/6AgAKAgQKAggKAg/6BAAKBAQKBAgKBA/6BgAKBgQKBggKBg /6CAAKCAQKCAgKCA/6CgAKCgQKCggKCg/6DAAKDAQKDAgKDA/6D/AKD/QKD/gKD//8AAAMAA QMAAgMAA/8AgAMAgQMAggMAg/8BAAMBAQMBAgMBA/8BgAMBgQMBggMBg/8CAAMCAQMCAgMCA /8CgAMCgQMCggMCg/8DAAMDAQMDAgMDA/8D/AMD/QMD/gMD///8AAP8AQP8AgP8A//8gAP8g QP8ggP8g//9AAP9AQP9AgP9A//9gAP9gQP9ggP9g//+AAP+AQP+AgP+A//+gAP+gQP+ggP+g ///AAP/AQP/AgP/A////AP//QP//gP///yH5BAAAAAAALAAAAADFAkgEAAiuAP8JHEiwoMGD CBMqXMiwocOHECNKnEixosWLGDNq3Mixo8ePIEOKHEmypMmTKFOqXMmypcuXMGPKnEmzps2b OHPq3Mmzp8+fQIMKHUq0qNGjSJMqXcq0qdOnUKNKnUq1qtWrWLNq3cq1q9evYMOKHUu2rNmz aNOqXcu2rdu3cOPKnUu3rt27ePPq3cu3r9+/gAMLHky4sOHDiBMrXsy4sePHkCNLnky5suXL mDNrSd7MubPnz6BDix5NurTp06hTq17NurXr17Bjy55Nu7bt27hz697Nu7fv38CDCx9OvLjx 48iTK1/OvLnz59CjS59Ovbr169iza987zr279+/gw4sfT768eeAAAJxfz769+/fw48ufT7++ /fv48+vfz7+///8ABijggAQWaOCBCCao4IIMNuj/4IMQRijhhBRWaOGFGGao4YYcdughV9t8 2FKIf5EoIlAmmpSeepet6CKLJ361olIzEvTijeld5KKNLNZYEY44wvWiQDtSBGSRPKaoEIxE 8shkSk/GWNCRVPrYkZUQValljhJtieVDXg4JU5hANlQlQ1t2GeZAXx5EZpRsamkmlQm9WSaa R7JJZJA9IcmZnTd61OacdOZ4ZpZrRnTnlIG+BOiLShok55KTgtmokzMOKmmibqa50KGdPqop pqISiiMJXAqap56UpprYov+sqpGYP166qa2I4pqrn6HyCqWorn4qa52wmjpqsa0iSymqfCar a692GvuotGT+E6lDaWr6/Gxh2zaLEa21+soouLsGWy6cCG2LkrfjmuusuNBORC6x8L6LrrDK 3uquvfTumy67cdZLKqDy8ppvrOoKpi7ARgqM7bzQ3vtuww7r6+9JCUPcr8a3FjyqxR5//O+w 9IZ8ccXtnozywFEePPK+CyccWMYcnyuxtA+vPLDJN7/cM0ky64ywywGrKbK+PAt07cYy7/mz xTcLHfTRKaPLcL/OMv10XzQLrbWONbOsaNgRU0x1SFNfDDXKZzvdttsm1zo02W+7rbbUdKtd ts9bVyxw03917XXEek+cM96DA863S023zeXVTo5dt9NxN2z3x5M3XnjAItcdM9lw4/v05v9c 1wz54aAzfe7qrJtN+keab43w5Xe/rnjHRr/OKOeY6345npJ37rvgm7Nd+OR4Ee/77rfvjTrp zc+9PO/TZwS47LPTLrHjqeMePPY8Uq8y+NKTj6fxuY9Pdd4/I3+X8uZTXn643HcfffRVx/8t xNVnT3urlurepionkW246mCZ45/+8BfAY6WOfaJjjPLARj366e52zTsdzljyrP4FC3JnY2Cc CKim/JUsfS3zoAL397cHBi1rEjSdAL03v6TZ7Hk3tIgIrTcv9/lPeyNrYP8saL4PXi2BvvJh B/X3O9VRK36D48vnfDi0ndlQiMUToAbPF0UeJlGFa4NTCGeYEQP/dvGHQKQhFtX4PTEysYaL e+LyhpiXbpFxgGJDYRtHp8Ud/m8lulKiuRi2Pj8S0XL5cyP5cHVGOEZOhxzLIJ1EE0hmUbGK Vbvi8/iIuEaW742umyTFwshGvoFSjwUjXAoX6SVIesqV2uojqDwTrf05r3WbxCEWmbhFkHDK Y6ocVy5V0qilnTCRwkQhyfZItA1CTZm9lMwvLWJGq5HxfoqT5B3zSMxWjtKUTCrkNmGJPH+x C4mV4tkyUSm+InpzM9N0ZRxxSS1dDpOIp2Rn0eSmNRiJU2evFF05t2crdA5ShV9845tYOEvM XCqa5zNlG/doz3qSk46hLKWl7PU46Lkw26BfAyY49zlRPGZUo7uEqBzHaZiCGvKT6XTmPQUq O5USjoM9BCNH5SdTjvbSpiQNJiZLurtDolSXQOViMx3DSEMSjJ5KzWInBclSsCUUklE1lEe9 ts6QGo2mWmWluBDaJio+9KWqxOjMcjrOIl1LpdgEqCwbmdRZ8Y+CWZVr4uLaReF1laZusmpZ FQquuj4xM4Gsq1/rx9gxcpWlhmXoVgmVV8c+doaK1VtDKwq8qCJqjdxUVVUVpkD8HQ2i2tTr 2wyLVqNSNqKV7RtfVyvC0/7VcK8F7EY5+8lc8f92MnaMq0V7yi/QQnWm3dRrbsFqO8zOdnr/ vCMGj2e/rX5pqTzVbYsiKdzhajerxwWrJgFZ3fYBgAQpzSFywSvSyo4XgJ7NmXFZxkkhIpa7 05XtR6N7Qelec7SS5aR59evc8l62r9aNYjZtq9zf9na5Ar1vCxdc0/1S978InqpaL3o4CIuX qOzd5TfXS9x4xZeLJP5jBI3l0LSxr8Kgi91e23q91l50wJqlrYJjbNOkHniOPGawkAUcSxmj rsUuxm9zX+xWUkITnzsd0+k0ONtQEhSu2K3gfDd5ZeP5zcLqc1iQ86mXaqXViBq+LrB+vNnY tpPMN35qGPeLzwOKkrmjVG6ziWNrsNumUaLeFarPlFoZM5/5zWGW1ZpnDNKU3rkli9ZYo18W Zz37dMoxxdpKa3lmOfv00oDeM3DjSV9/PjqRLi2Vlf2MZwDbNdL3mnQQA8zad4ITcVye1q11 veslPnqZribNqUvtyaFkeSZwtuVGbFyTDXsRpqQmdnCLlSlbS+naUqmdjI+N7W6fhdneDre4 oZLscZv7KuU+t7rXze52uzP73fCOt7znTe962/ve+M63vvfN7377+98AD7jAB07wghv84AhP uMIXzvCGO/zhEI+4xCcyTvGKW/ziGM+4xjfO8Y57/OMgD7nIR07ykpv85ChPucpXzvKWu/zl MI/5cdIt85rb/Ob/OM+5znfO8567xpg+D7rQh0701wAd6JemOeO4LdhgcwTpHzc0op1Kx2HP 2YFrbrq1ac3qOkcW2oXNNMmlrj2mJ9Pri3UZrN3J60qD/Uqetpm3ZD1yOVlT7MHT+rYpLGmz /zqyU7yk+EKtzliXCep1n6vgpbfsaJo2yWR1l4/HXHXKL5DJNU/thoPd9bmdtLjvVbGD56nP 74JY1DDXfD5ba/Wzl57w4XUki2NPaNrjdtY2V/2ri112Prr2w6e34pFfP/vglziomVf8Kc2O x59C0cCeU3KC2a7jgTIaZov3uO69COBUbbF62499fsFfYPJfX5FKv3j4Kw3Kjk7t9yEeCT3f I09g+gef9/8hXz8/X+qjPMMf+PIHZhyGLZakdaeHf/mnfCzURPI0eMTyf6Z3Ys+UVYhHercX ereHgAmoYcrGgCMmekWFgV51fIxHgimWSTfWOhq4gY3FS3bmSViSL+ZXfS04aKPXENXkZWa1 fSvIgkvmPiGCZnR1UH0HgaBHXPongsJnZazTgyC3di44gR/ogCFIfEfIZxh2STVWbKr3dSYH hQ24hF91U1VofFfYalg2WluohcrHfCgHhvxkQlPYTmVoe2ujXloWf583gnuIhdn3hAo4hx4o OXw4g/0ViFJ4hhQFgH2oW25YckkYQLAniSNoiNiThkWWdpX3ZWqIiI+YeBxYeJalhi9RhkZ2 KIfPY0x7p3d6qISJ+Ik+CGPWt1Bj6FWWuIg3mGcwuHcuiIh/lnu+KHd4R4ofdot4KIG3lIzK ZIKBZnqd94bB2GEXKF9oSH2HSINREzaAt4Y1UoEouGW/GHORCFuKSIxo2Ijl6ETquI5WeIdG yI5lB4yh6FvMGCq5Zo2yiI0RmIi4iIzH6I90KHPjCF+t2FlyhI6TCJBiSIbtyJBmOI306iWQ 0bhiG+SN0zeLF9mQzrdj5QdkHNk74EZxA4l7zUiQh+WKVEh7jpeFHhl9H5ljISlxI2mPIkaJ NdmQKSl+M/mND2mBJ/hmLpdlqNWCUnWNLTlh26Qs3DZ/l6da0MWNTshwozh1EeZoCUEimOhR b4dqbheRy8iH6qSQ1RhYdNdxZAd20wY/hDSMKXOPnCaM0ZZrpdZ4pdWRDfWWgLh1Z4mWSTdY U4kpbrl1cFmWjvaMg5lZIIWXeVluhqd2k8aWNEkjTUaXk+SNzBSTRVcX6Zdtf/iPmfmZoBma ojmapFmapnmaqJmaqrmarCzZmq75mrAZm7I5m7RZm7Z5m7iZm7q5m7zZm775m8AZnMI5nMRZ nMZ5nMiZnCjKuZzM2ZzO+ZzQGZ3SOZ3UWZ3WeZ3YmZ3auZ3c2Z3e+Z3gGZ7iOZ7kM1me5nme 6Jme6rme7Nme7vme8Bmf8mkczjaf0NGZ9tkcUZmfyLGf/Emf9fmfEbKZAlqgBiZ6oAiaoAq6 oAzaoA76oBAaoRI6oRRaoRZ6oRiaoRq6oRzaoR76oSIgGqIiOqIkWqImeqIomqIquqIs2qIu +qIwGqMyOqM0WqM2I3qjOJqjOrqjPNqjPvqjQBqkQjqkRFqkRnqkSJqkSrqkTNqkH076pFAa pVI6pVRapVZ6pViapVq6pVzapV76pWAapmJTOqZkWqZmeqZomqZquqYXqmhD4nRs2hSTRCv+ GadHUSRW0n8EaqdFoafe5318qhY7Uk3CFKCBuhQkA6eHyhTAhp+LKpnhdFCPmhYv6HqTShaV WocolyojjWqom0oUneqonzqqpFqqpnqqqJqqQLqnqtqqrvqqsBqrsjqrtP9aq7Z6q7iaq7q6 q7zanH/5KW2JNn6pHk1pmCUBZ56qnK10at60Wc36d02VJ7TYT2c1VmKSlk8SrXlarZZXJs+K LNiaLjaYh9RIcJ5yl5OSmJXirH32gqaGJE75SHbjPInVrtk1r7wzQviqaTuCp/Dqr9A6rJI3 sP/ahmJlrBcSg38aqULoemq2Sg7rrmp0Vcg3PJIKmMFKKiATPnUYduHULuYIsJwTsQy7sRpL kiArrw8zsqIoqgeiZhXbsFXol5Y6VAoLsSrLsdnlkazyQ+TCVkSYrUSYsXuirzlrUkPlP1+k sgm1SthnTn7CPTXbQFP7If1XtPd6s/6EtfcaOjz/tbUxi7NeO7N/OmIddbL5ypMeK7YeuLBV a7RJGysse7ZB1bQMC7V4u62fpanlyrJSoqdKi2YpC6g6S7JcW7JHu63m9EjWp69Cq7gwC7mI S0NhZWpo2zNKkomHy7TXlbQcY0nW5LkwVoZCdlQbUiMPi7Fz25iR6XlP2yMU27Ulk2HECjNf m1OeK7p3x7H+OpeESGmD4qdilLvaErcjBK/p07MPRmkpGyPgGqr1QrM5CZStuzLMJ4O1C7aR i7o7+7S8i7qPi2H9dGud4nmzE7zZ+y+hAz6wYmfJgjR/CzDrhEAE65UgCy+QK5dPFlhVZEZd 635NorskubB2q2NYg752DyQ/sGs1Y2u0DHQnentMqv97IuArtsO6uUcrwIFbt/Xrt5IirzPm wDaStktbQwU7wHdbtmlrk/BLuLfrRgosu0r5rqs1eDFokh4sIldLuUHbs5lquAEcuJObs7FE UiGMtQdEwjBbgrrrtIV7VvDbt2dHty9cviZMsImFtitrv6YSxRTswpzrxKQ7tInrtsiXtd7b vYdoxUFsvsZLwGE7seH7rqb7toMVxiZVsC1TszK7W6FFjhmME6y6GyDJuDmMRjfbvEYssUMs w2Z8yBsTsRycQn6byJbaw/97iXjLwyWrwm7cZ3wcvr8bPjcswXWrw9pGw3LLxG6sxt94rXoM x5zcJGuLYxUsy8IryTmcp6j2IseyLLuR3CuqG7V0mh5Y+ctxC8qKXGQfzLXZo7VAfCHHLL+N Eijfmqjnyq0LXMApXG2QtyjV7IDVvM3EnGr22ntyJ23eDMu3TLfeCrDwLLhnrDTFvE/IrMdn Z5kJsmSQfBPOdjdtbD1+bCbmqCiahjG5Va9vGsvkvMeB/MxNG4Jt5rIBos9hMcjM4TsWraob jWwY3asxkawgPdIkXdImLWUfvS6WCzsVZhQfHbzUOXmOErQLXVOUwsK+OzYG0dGFqyJYrKir 7Mw7HckcyVzAXEJbPCFLSdEU6ZVa+YADXagJxNLJFUQ9eEDoFTINLMVzZryIhGLW/yIhFUyP DsHTzCvVVFzQHdh8Qe0VUHvUWEUQPO2+qRRRgDsnN53USg3AUhypPT0lAW3KGgu7gE2HsBzG K/1MC+yz4Mu7wnK8tUvKotzChL3CUh3U9by+2pvWka28efyUeI1JUtV4FdKvlet+lbvIqD2v Cp29dxfB5rvQ6Mx447yO2szO+IyW8Xy2D4va7fza7urb0AbRYYWv+DvWmi28tszZNGzac/fL Ij0f7+zcEJ2vNV3c2NzZeUvX0qrdp03Yh22Kecgn63zLxP3dc1ptVaSw6x0k3jyuvVUt7jzd x63N58vbMBnB173byj0/TC0fqeu4lY3bru3dnd18WjW7Af8s3H76wulLOY2tvm3d3ki82BBO zp+MuKbd3hq+2O+NvrS8zQHp2tV9u8uLscrd2GkdzIe74Qku2tQt2+LtINJb4RXezjBl41a8 4t+L3vYtuXw9wxZO4RFuKEW7zqwssfft3UU11uNMxrk8p0fO2zBe4B1c5eHN4ztOxdTtzJWK 3FpOIKzbvO9d4gul3hJe3DT52w2d3asi5Cbu36td3qd93/f73cks4r2s297j27i94GdSKD0S mZ78261M6AO+2utts9U6iAYC3EhbggRs5dbcuzb4uuyc3Gouz/xtiqLk5w3O4Zou1E6O5ygI 6u1K3gQu6ZmO5fuKaDZ8KDQtsrqTjea95ylmnR931eSKC8KPbNcIrEVZMsKkjCZ8u8r/9deF HcQYXr4fG9gPmDe+Tqxwm8Tz/OmGzsSzHuGxXeacTucPHm7/jcNcUaf29SopLa7E3m7RHdqW 0e5oke4ymusnXe/2TiH0Tp7Xy5jPB9Qh/c+yiGo5xhFABtWjibAzHoZh6UvJlspgPMpcDc9q 3YD6ddY6/xKUfG3QsGNVcB0ucEdQAm42EE/q2AJ3CR/px67TLYfkj+3lXv0tilztz47EUwzB Mk61J6TmSN3i5822A7/VXw3yec3xLNcst93pmo7tDG24++3nbwcqzo3cTpTt3Hrr1OzXTWTo su7tXE+20B3qT97n/r5vR5++qr7qiULfluy6bx7jNt/ddpffHl7pxQze8aTfT27lfCnoJM7e v4PmTe/eQojwCGf02J3obX7rjN7cL36x8XjhRf7IdM/qNZ3Xkd/iB871Uf/GWH/hcBP3jL/h kK+zgI/48v24W5lxik7nNw7Zgk/XCmzqjh/1K135mG/3lA7AmFZB3N71HH7X5f/8xJWN5bWt xJn/4g6c6JBf4LNdNKyv+quP5+YN7uEc3E+/56qd9XXe5Wxv4Nzb89+v2q+P++dV6ov/s4nd +tdN5Iz/R1m85G4fzvBPzDB+6BPnprMt+m3P3PhNbQABQOBAgf8MEgRg8B/CgwgTFlQ4sOHD hAsLMrQ4keBEhRYhfrzosKFHihVJRjTp0CTKjR0zeuR4EiNEjRVV1iTh8qVKiSB7tvTZsqbN kit1HkWaVOlSpk2dPoUaVepUqlWtXsWaVWtHnilR1uRqdCTMr0lppixKU6PSlRKRqnUpdmvZ kUIXsjyLV63bg3FtvuXLle5etF79oh0rUmdQt3yFOiarihFs3cBzLV/GnFnzZs6dPXOW/Plo 6KqVRTeVu9XuadZ6U8NtHVv2bNq1bd/GHRbANtymqfrODTp18Mur/RJHnlz5cubNnT+HHl36 dOrVrV/Hnl37du7dvX8HH178ePLlzZ9Hn179evbLYbeHH1/+fKvGS0+9eby3YqaQpeY/zb6O tiFttPfoQzBBBaUDDr/h2PqprQeXmvC/CFE7q0ID+fOsQd0O1E0rDRck/7FEE5/y0EILEcsK xN8ydArGFWMSzcUQ+7MxxhxP5LHHHl18CCq4KoSMoq8ejJBFkkYky7/DlIwqw+H2Oo6ouwYT MCyzbrwqRR+/BDNBKdOKjITIlEyRMIYUAyrJtTikkD/JZhoTwznrlGlNOhlD8r0962SzsSLB EjRMQw8Fb0wjkwzJMS43/JDRRdNqkkwvXSsLJJjaNBLCOxld8iaR/gQStkYpG2pUPc/sqlBE X4XVOj41DVVOLT3Vss1Id3pppywBszKxYBsddsKf9EpVVBkb27TUJ5tlNVVoe+VzSbJixTZb 5lr1ibKNDENRwjOpFfSvU5uNErFyC7XSVbOCtf82z0AFo9HXAwPj1N5ulw0p006PZFJbgQfu UNWgMuo0r4hwZAmvXq+sNFRh44oTU4nlLRfXPKU9eGNh3QQW2Yv79dXfUSemd0eCV2a5OGIt Xeukhet9MjRmcyWUsbHoWizjkf+MF9hxgZZZ2V273dBgoKhtMtJ5aXV455anplq1wkSWmkqe IX0NwlsNrDhkGgvU71qhsSwssoY/OgxsoR+DW1x6RV53ZqwvrTpvvY/izTLCpgt4vr61s3lv ww+PzajAb1sc8c1Wa9xxySenvHLLL8c8c80357xzzz8HPXTRRx+QdNNPn63VGk3l1FiVdawP wNLgdLDtzF5HPXfJVV8Uvee6NW6RbQdp99pp3N1uWEgkk9f/vfnNfe7ddpqRF7Gk4bcO+0a8 AZPezncVMtN58TMf9Huk6/KUdQlTXr1xAMI3ezTmk8c39uMblHJ8/Sl3MmfeV12X+ub2s2jF BGh1c5VpfEYq4/zETHKaVbUMSDTfTWZ6+8OgwHgCMEtxq4PW69mtNlipb6nOhMT6mO9aF0HF Kat1yWJVDAM1JQmSLYM3fNUCz1WkVU0QhI9SFNI8eK0TFoWILRTLhWqVxMqQCobT8qDauDeU i+HQijmUkb2yxq2dgWx+4uohDOEVLyUeC3hre1kD/VQtBj7xZ8WT1PauOEcxnU+IYBwiRyCX RWh9cGnkWqGksperKMoNeXGM4RKvrZTHmiEycnSEpHpeWKstFtI1Q1KiHt2kK5JRsStvfFYj GSmzsuWxkOzKDw/1ZcNItpI+vBtZCKn4MOIVKIv5G1sop0VAXRoPlrRjYtp8+Lt9na9kfXyk K5WJuWQ+Dm5z6VszU7c4OS7Tmtd80d8UdDxsdtOb3wRnOMM0OHGW05znRGc61blOdrYTnL+C XW3gKcu+hIt4DHNnPpvHSu9BbEuzk4vsNIa3gTywmvHT/2dCR3fQv3nooPOj3476hyMjqkih F10oNdXXp8gBB3rFu948MTrS3OHLLhtE4KwgGjMBgexTUCOlCktYUF/6i0sBvCBJdfqj911S jDOl0xE3KsWkBbBdKKyi03y6xDhGjYv83GlU63hJGVJqkzvc41Ffg1XrXWimCJVYB1eJQlBx MWhSReuCmgjCr0oLijr72rkqeNWE0SqTIcrXvACJMACOUaRpBWx61spUBqbxk/48JohUGlaj XrBjhiVhXaPYRagG1rLlOWlVZ9hXF2ISZSok7P8O60t1HZaTSmtrUi+7WvTcaZhCjVsZfaOr swXSgr8TJYx+aVek6qmXrAWu5yz+6p7Kru9r1AtucjnHTeRUVrnPhW7wojtd6lbXutfFbna1 u13udte73wVveD/FO17ylte850VvetW7Xva2173vhW985Ttf+tbXvvfFb371u1/+9te//wVw gAU8YAIX2MAHRnCCFbxgBjfYwQ82hnCEJTxhClfYwhfGcIY1vGEOd9jDHwZxiEU8YhKX2MQn RnGKVbxiFrfYxS+GcYxlPGMa19jGMjfGcY51vGMe99jHPwZykIU8ZCIX2chHRnKSlXxdaS7Z yU+GcpSlPGUqV9nKV8ZylrW8LGUud9nLXwZzmMU8ZjKX2cxnRnOa1bxmNrfZzW+Gc5zlPGc6 19nOd8ZznvW8K2c+99nPfwZ0oAU9aEIXGqNNNnSiFb1oRjfa0Y+GdKQlPWlKV9rSl8Z0pjUl vWlOd9rTnwZ1qEU9alKX2tSnRnWqVb1qVrfa1a+GdaxlPWta1yTa1rfGda51vWte99rXvwZ2 sIU9bGIX29jHRnaylb1sZjfb2c8ihna0pT1talfb2tfGdra1vW1ud9vb3wZ3uMU9bnKX29zn RiF3utW9bna3293vhne85T1vetfb3vfGd771vW9+99vf/wYfeMAFPnCCF9zgB0d4whW+cIY3 3OEPh3jEJT5xilfc4h8Xx3jGNb5xjnfc4x8HechFPnKSl9zkJ0d5yp2MaJW3HdzlL4d5zGU+ c5rX3OY3x3nOdb5znvfc5z8HetCFHD50ohfd6EdHetKVvnSmN93pT4d61KU+dapX3eobV8d6 1rW+da533etfB3vYxT52spfd7GdHe9rVSL52trfd7W+He9zlPne6193uGr9nZ5hLd7MWrCvk vPvRHgpQYwbedsOtnnENX8G7QPB2bNv7h9LFcpub0ZL+yzu6Gr/ZU97Wi5FO55CTjjV6fsLp jh8k4cfGCHqb8Uusmn9bC03G10nBK6VSN+PY2khUOP6FXDwz6Q955dyi30z3gbwaPhdJWb+q yWyQR7zQZ+v6/l3KpJQFPk0IBLWbRR/opOGsXucZN3nF7PmyxT7UZWdJCDq0iDws4O5L6PbI AX7x98d//vW/f/73v9SZdybvWwr7+7rCC5DByXs7bUqcyEtAPmIeBvwe/3OrU+osg3Kd5Bum tFGT+qEYydsaXKK5VFIUgEmsHAm+49ulICKTybCtokHAjnuZ7GuLxEihODGkQUkgDSSZHWQR HeqkmXM+WlIgJBq/DSS/ILobzpo91XtBj/MsIWQd/fCS4Hup9THCzVuhJUQmCITBW5KhsqnB MxohhJIrUaEb3urBigpB2TIl+PuVwgJBDioWyeIXHwrDm7sXL8qszINDDGQqRdoTfZkl2pLA yyDAlSrERFTERWTERhx0xEeExEiUxEmkxEq0xEvExEzUxE3kxE70xE8EGsVQFMVRJMVSNMVT RMVUVMVVZMVWdMVXhMVYGZTFWaTFWrTFW8TFXNTFXeTFXvTFXwTGYBQaxmEkxmI0xmNExmRU xmVkxmZ0xmeExmiUxmkYpMZqtMZrxMZs1MZt5MZu9MZvBMdwFMdxGCTHcjTHc0THdFTHdWTH dnTHd4THeJTHeRikx3q0x3vEx3zUx33kx370x38EyIAUSDwZ/EXKG8iDRMiEVMiFZMiGdMiH hMiIlMiJpBfIirTIi8TIjNTIjeTIjvTIjwTJkBTJkRYkyZI0yZNEyZRUyZVkyZZ0yZeEyZiU GMmZ/ByDpMmbxMmc1Mmd5Mme9MmfBMqgFBXKoSTKojTKo0TKpFTKpWTKpnTKp4QVyqiUyqmk yqq0yqvEyqzUyq3kyq70/8qvBMuwFMuxJMuyNMsWeyBOJBviGy1YmiLSckufEkGg8pOcKqo0 MUGbBK16AsNgs6W/ysLQ2qpger+AQi3DGkO3oqjRWqpGEqVZWkzwk8zpMyr8MUw3hMziAkAp Mz2CwqQgzCnK9MNS+cxe8iiGwqkH/EzhIyDrA5WIwiMiVMHpKyqLab+8VIxD5Mw9VJkhNKTQ pMwvoqjuiR/LdB/QXCs/fJjzY5Lk/KIr9MCbSs7LBM2zep3N3E0qvEwsfEvmrE3Gc8HhfJTi VCzmOsHpMcDzlBob5BoBSkLfHM+WOqm9BKt34cIiK0PyZMzjUs9dAU9CtE/idE6xmTztWSPW REfB+iTQKnHPKvrL3zQ/x+RL6SxQ/hwSJcMq74RMG6wlBNUk40sfgRpQSJkRUhoI+7sr1fTQ M1Kq7qnC/9RO6lSYZ+EmKvQ8Af+csR2qF8xsUUVym+BMTPsM0hEFT+UBENEMzg8NGPfbqIWZ P99UQ2+Rn6KJvRJ1qvxpwhdLowR10qFS0buU0aRqPwEtzQW1pyuV0QOlKiNNH/pUG7lqTIPg Dd6zm295m+vxTwy8zxbrGKEiUReNQzfK0+kMVCIlT5rBTclD0iZ9k+1hUsJMITiN0NxaDP/8 0wqlG9U0sj69vkvd0eqEQoUYnEmyGP0kU9k7VPZ0GCBtUNjSkcGETyZET9K0JUstUjYlpPJJ MhDs1JnJKiAKKkRUpX6CKCItVCLZQERNz+r0zLokQy9c1j6JGruZ1PE801wNVPx0F96MrSPt VuFTI8Wp49Do/FReBVX69FPpRNXn7M0oNFXYXCnLJFfEUtDBGywT3VMY8y0xtZG5RD66dNf1 jL1PokCgsiAwbT3l1NWgwc6Fddi2StjBtNQ9FNJbNU09rUMgS8sAMVMhqdTIFK2CHaXccgty EijFFEyROtn3iVhN8VdC/aleNR7inNkjwitJfTe8nLz7UT7kWk6BBdbGwh5Kslbb5MAkrMR8 FUWlXVq9lDvdPMuolf/aqaXaqrXaq8XaQEtNQXUj19zPmMKKLA0Ppz02UlVSkrVLpcqqtZ3M II1AN3XD63zDBy0gH5UpIpxWYANQPfrZcpnTJYUpLsUSxrsfGio8t61YsYHZKgzXlkXEXIsm EF2bCV1CjQoSenpW7MHODyHAmTgkuQWe6QTaOFxYliLbUeuq79zO3DPSYOpLou3RV4VV3wND zwzQYv2jUkLOxT1dUavbTL1be1XT49pQW7WTKdkU6rHdBSVU2jS//rRbv8xbvqXXs8VTMpWl PByuexoXzAVdaoXeGKSn/hws4qs1PKFQEhVeiZ3VakWq/hhaiHFeBfXeoJXC+SVfJjqrXys8 3a+doGzSXrDqUyXtV+XkS+eVIwf8KOYjXPUcwmrttWcirX/6WdnV3qEC17ikUd7U3JOt2OZd zQ9025VdLOCDE80Bql2Qul1q1aSdtQ+6FWHufeGJSsXezdobxuEc1uEd5uEe9uEfBuIgVya5 0wSS77zEGZZP2WTawAvXZy1Nsc2/AYXS+7XhuNs+JFJWIt5EKW4oL9VEKI3bu/3iA41bHYTi +4PPJOVaSmzi4IxcD47EtiXjxxzFhzJfVoRaIdbjPRbm4z724z8G5EB2tioW5EI25ENG5ERW FORFZuRGduRHhuRIluRJpuRKtuRLEMbkTNbkTUYvQubkTw6zgAAAOw== --------------040206020707000806080702-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15592 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 14:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 14:39:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3222 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 14:39:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 14:39:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16niiq-0005pW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:13:56 +0000 Received: from smtp1.snet.net ([204.60.203.69] helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16niip-0005pR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:13:55 +0000 Received: from snet.net ([64.252.202.155]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with ESMTP id g2KEYEop019618 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:34:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C989FE3.EAA99000@snet.net> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:42:43 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Soundcard Mods References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A18@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy I would be interested in your findings on locking the sound card to a master reference. All of the receiving and transmitting stuff here is tied to GPS so the sound card is the weak link in the system. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Talbot Andrew wrote: > Thanks for all your responses on Soundcard mods. There seem to be so many > variations, the easist way, the route we'll probably follow, is to get a > separate data collection card rather than trying to bodge an S/B. Possibly > the National Instruments one as their products have been used before here. > Unfortunately, it does mean new software will have to be written rather than > being able to call on the old Soundcard stuff......... > > However, will look at my PCI bus true Soundblaster compatible at home and > see how easy it would be to modify for external clock. It would be nice to > be able to lock that to the master reference and have an exact 8000 or 11025 > Hz sampling rate. > > Andy G4JNT > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12507 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 14:00:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 14:00:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24978 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 14:00:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 14:00:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ni6E-0005h0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:34:02 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ni6D-0005gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:34:01 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA30607; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:07:13 GMT Received: (qmail 21047 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 14:42:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (HELO mailguard.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 14:42:17 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:04:56 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:55:56 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A18@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Soundcard Mods Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:55:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for all your responses on Soundcard mods. There seem to be so many variations, the easist way, the route we'll probably follow, is to get a separate data collection card rather than trying to bodge an S/B. Possibly the National Instruments one as their products have been used before here. Unfortunately, it does mean new software will have to be written rather than being able to call on the old Soundcard stuff......... However, will look at my PCI bus true Soundblaster compatible at home and see how easy it would be to modify for external clock. It would be nice to be able to lock that to the master reference and have an exact 8000 or 11025 Hz sampling rate. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1426 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 11:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 11:27:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11878 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 11:26:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 11:26:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nfgL-0005Fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:59:09 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nfgJ-0005Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:59:07 +0000 Received: from [62.21.133.55] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16ne9P-0006VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:21:04 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320120715.00a04b20@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:09:51 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: Re: LF: R: Proximity effect In-reply-to: <001101c1cf63$ac468820$08666ec3@cestag> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To Akl from PA0SE

Cesare wrote:

   Hello Dick
    I've noted the great difference between the values reported by Mesny and those appearing in the graph you have sent. I think the difference may be explained as follows: the graph refers to two wires, where the magnetic field is rarefied only in the sides facing each other. In the case of a single layer coil, except the first and the last turn, the magnetic field is rarefied in both sides of each wire, so reducing further on the useful area and consequently increasing the  RF resistance. Any comment welcome  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc

You could well be right. But I don't feel qualified to judge.

73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20894 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 07:31:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 07:31:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23821 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2002 07:31:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2002 07:31:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nbuq-0004g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:57:52 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nbum-0004g3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:57:49 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2K7Lgb09860 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:21:55 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA21290 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:19:16 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:19:13 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69998@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: RE: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:19:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh, that's a good idea, I can speak russian, so no problem. 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW [mailto:DK8KW@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:42 PM To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Hi Rich, >Typo in your message. You wrote ...locator is KN92LN...it's direct in the >Black See (KN97LN in the subject is OK...hi). So, therfore some distance >correction, it's 1581km from my QTH...hi. ... thanks for the correction ... > it's 1581km from my QTH...hi. good chance for you, then! Maybe you can give Ed some hints on how to tune such a large antenna, his e-mail address is ed@dx.ru 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23480 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 19:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 19:32:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11235 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 19:32:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 19:32:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nQj1-00030G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:00:55 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nQj0-000304-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:00:54 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.72.19793e8e (3936) for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:22:15 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <72.19793e8e.29c8e9e6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:22:14 EST Subject: Re: LF: Soundcard Mods To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Andy and group,


> For LF use, how about an externally derived 1kHz sampling rate for input
> from receivers using a narrow CW filter and BFO pitch set below 400 Hz ?
>
Instead of using the 1kHz reference signal as a sample clock for the soundcard (which may be a *very* tricky job), why not use 1kHz as a reference to determine the 'true' sample rate ? The software can do the rest, comparing the phase of the reference signal with a (software-based) NCO to find the 'calibrated' sample rate of the soundcard.
Surprisingly this is exactly what Alberto's PHD radio does, and what can be done with another program occasionally used by a few...  :-)

Regarding the 'AC-coupled' audio input: If only low bandwidth (a few hundred Hz) is required, the soundcard can be made 'DC-capable' with a simple chopper circuit (an square wave generator, an OPAMP as inverter and a CMOS 4066 analog switch can do the job). The software acts as synchronous rectifier to put the chopped pieces together again.

Regards,
 Wolf   DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23376 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 18:49:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 18:49:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17338 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 18:49:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 18:49:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nQ6r-0002p4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:21:29 +0000 Received: from siaag1ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nQ6q-0002ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:21:28 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA19008 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:42:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:42:05 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: RE: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203191342_MC3-F660-9DC1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich, >Typo in your message. You wrote ...locator is KN92LN...it's direct in the >Black See (KN97LN in the subject is OK...hi). So, therfore some distance >correction, it's 1581km from my QTH...hi. ... thanks for the correction ... > it's 1581km from my QTH...hi. good chance for you, then! Maybe you can give Ed some hints on how to tune such a large antenna, his e-mail address is ed@dx.ru 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14976 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:49:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:49:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3035 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:49:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:49:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nPCI-0002Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:23:02 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nPCG-0002Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:23:01 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2JHlDb26629 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:47:13 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA22586 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:45 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:43 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69997@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri... Typo in your message. You wrote ...locator is KN92LN...it's direct in the Black See (KN97LN in the subject is OK...hi). So, therfore some distance correction, it's 1581km from my QTH...hi. 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW [mailto:DK8KW@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:40 PM To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: RU6LA Subject: LF: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Hello LF Group, I got an e-mail from Ed, RU6LA, who has a license on hand for 136 kHz operation. He and UA6LV are preparing the first Russian DX-pedition on LF, they intend to be QRV during the WPX contest weekend March 30-31, 2002, using a 135 m high antenna tower with 100 Watts output. His QTH is near Taganrog/Russia, the locator is KN92LN, which is approximately 2100 km from my QTH. Ed will try to be QRV in QRSS around 137.700 kHz (3 second dots). More details about his operation schedule and possible QSX frequencies will be available later. Looking forward to some "firsts"! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3473 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:30:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:30:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12233 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:30:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:30:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOv0-0002WB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:05:10 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOur-0002W0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:05:02 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2JHSdb25889 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:28:39 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA21639 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:11 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:08 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E04D69996@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh, that's fine...I'll be QRV too. It's not so far, "only" 1769km from my QTH ! Good luck...de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW [mailto:DK8KW@compuserve.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:40 PM To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: RU6LA Subject: LF: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 Hello LF Group, I got an e-mail from Ed, RU6LA, who has a license on hand for 136 kHz operation. He and UA6LV are preparing the first Russian DX-pedition on LF, they intend to be QRV during the WPX contest weekend March 30-31, 2002, using a 135 m high antenna tower with 100 Watts output. His QTH is near Taganrog/Russia, the locator is KN92LN, which is approximately 2100 km from my QTH. Ed will try to be QRV in QRSS around 137.700 kHz (3 second dots). More details about his operation schedule and possible QSX frequencies will be available later. Looking forward to some "firsts"! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12101 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:12:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:12:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23174 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:12:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOau-0002OZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:24 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOat-0002OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:23 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 5501 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-7.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:05:49 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:13:33 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Proximity effect Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:57:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick, > Perhaps this has been reported bnefore but just in case it has not. Terman's RADIO ENGINEERS' HANDBOOK (first Edition, Sixth Impression) contains useful information on the proximity effect and the ratio of ac to dc resistance of isolated litz wire: pages 36 and 37. Attached a sample that hopefully passes the reflector. Thanks for the above info and the figure you sent. Unfortunately I won't have access to a copy of Terman for a few days but wanted to be sure your figure applies to std copper conductors (as the description seems to indicate). If so, this plot agrees with the textbook info I came up with on Sunday, but there is a large discrepancy with the losses calculated from the equation Cesare posted yesterday. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12086 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:12:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:12:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23157 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOeX-0002P6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:48:09 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nOeW-0002P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:48:08 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16nN7d-0000EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:10:05 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16nN7c-0002aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:10:05 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319163742.00a84aa0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:05:46 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Soundcard Mods In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A09@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group, At 09:59 19/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Has anyone tried changing the clock source on a Soundcard for a different >frequency ? For a job here at work we need to sample more accurately than >the usual crystal oscillator (does this sound familiar ?) and at different >sampling rates. It would be ideal if we could push it to 50kHz... I remember looking at sound card specifications a year or so ago, and finding that current sound card audio codecs mostly adhere to the Intel AC 97 specification (there are a number of different versions of this "standard" of course...), which includes a 48kHz sample rate, so 50kHz should not be pushing it much. You can download it from http://developer.intel.com/ial/scalableplatforms/audio/ - it contains a load of info about pin functions etc. I skimmed through the data sheets for a few compliant devices - although they offered the same basic sample rates, the way different rates were implemented was different in every case - some actually had synthesised clocks that could be tuned in small increments, others ran at a steady 48kHz, and messed around with the data in the digital domain - the upshot of this was that the ratios between sample rates were not necessarily exact - so you might end up needing a different clock frequency for each sample rate you planned to use. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25988 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27585 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 16:52:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 16:52:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nODt-0002JA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:20:37 +0000 Received: from siaag2ad.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.134]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nODs-0002Iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:20:36 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id LAA27116; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:41:57 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:40:05 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Ed, RU6LA QRV from KN97LN March 30-31, 2002 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "RU6LA" Message-ID: <200203191140_MC3-F673-5436@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, I got an e-mail from Ed, RU6LA, who has a license on hand for 136 kHz operation. He and UA6LV are preparing the first Russian DX-pedition on LF, they intend to be QRV during the WPX contest weekend March 30-31, 2002, using a 135 m high antenna tower with 100 Watts output. His QTH is near Taganrog/Russia, the locator is KN92LN, which is approximately 2100 km from my QTH. Ed will try to be QRV in QRSS around 137.700 kHz (3 second dots). More details about his operation schedule and possible QSX frequencies will be available later. Looking forward to some "firsts"! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18039 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 16:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 16:43:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 19306 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 16:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 16:43:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nO5f-0002H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:12:07 +0000 Received: from mail3.dada.it ([195.110.96.70] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nO5d-0002H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:12:06 +0000 Received: (qmail 12618 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 16:33:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.8) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 16:33:24 -0000 Message-ID: <001101c1cf63$ac468820$08666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Proximity effect Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:31:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
    Hello Dick
    I've noted the great difference between the values reported by Mesny and those appearing in the graph you have sent. I think the difference may be explained as follows: the graph refers to two wires, where the magnetic field is rarefied only in the sides facing each other. In the case of a single layer coil, except the first and the last turn, the magnetic field is rarefied in both sides of each wire, so reducing further on the useful area and consequently increasing the  RF resistance. Any comment welcome  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Dick Rollema <d.w.rollema@freeler.nl>
A: LF-Group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Data: martedì 19 marzo 2002 12.54
Oggetto: LF: Proximity effect

Dr. OM,

Perhaps this has been reported bnefore but just in case it has not. Terman's RADIO ENGINEERS' HANDBOOK (first Edition, Sixth Impression) contains useful information on the proximity effect and the ratio of ac to dc resistance of isolated litz wire: pages 36 and 37.
Attached a sample that hopefully passes the reflector.

73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23676 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 15:37:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 15:37:35 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3461 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 15:37:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nN8h-00026I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:11:11 +0000 Received: from smtp.comcast.net ([24.153.64.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nN8f-00026D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:11:10 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (pcp01445478pcs.lebnon01.pa.comcast.net [68.83.64.41]) by mtaout45-02.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with SMTP id <0GT800I9N8ICL6@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:32:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:31:08 -0500 From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Soundcard Mods To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <0GT800I9O8ICL6@mtaout45-02.icomcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, As a couple of the other guys have pointed out, it depends on the soundcard. Assuming it does have an onboard crystal or brick to determine sample- rates, yes, of course one can take liberties with it. Most audio-type sigma- delta convertors have quite liberal specs and one can 'push' them significantly; 50kHz for a nominally 44.1kHz part no problem. (On a digital stereo encoder I did for someone a while back, a 96kHz part cranked to 128kHz satisfactorily . . . ). One possible 'gotcha', although with ever- faster machines much less likely to be a problem, if ever it was anway, might be the service time of the interrupts starting to tread on their own toes if the rate's cranked too hard. Never had it as an issue, though. We regularly mess with the clocks like that for better accuracy / weird applications. If you do feel the need to go 'after-market', look at the external USB interfaced codec units. Gets the convertors out of THAT box, and they definitely have their own rocks. After-market units for the music industry although still sadly prone to, um, hyperbolic specifications are far, far better than 'typical 'blasters. With a touch of "living in a shoe-box beside the motorway", the microphone input on my raptop is 3dB down at 80Hz. Moral; use the line in/outs. Cheers, Steve W3EEE 3/19/2002 9:59:54 AM, Talbot Andrew wrote: >Has anyone tried changing the clock source on a Soundcard for a different >frequency ? For a job here at work we need to sample more accurately than >the usual crystal oscillator (does this sound familiar ?) and at different >sampling rates. It would be ideal if we could push it to 50kHz, but 25kHz >and 12.5kHz would do, as well as accurate 8 and 16kHz options. One idea >that immediately comes to mind is to remove the Soundcard clock crystal and >feed in the input from a synthesizer. Before diving inside a PC, I wonder >if anyone has ever tried this ? Modifying the integrated soundcard on the >Dell machines here could prove a bit tricky just to try on spec. > >For LF use, how about an externally derived 1kHz sampling rate for input >from receivers using a narrow CW filter and BFO pitch set below 400 Hz ? > >Andy G4JNT - but with another hot on now. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16857 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 12:55:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 12:55:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7766 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 12:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 12:55:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nKdX-0001g2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:30:51 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nKdW-0001fx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:30:51 +0000 Received: from host62-7-79-53.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.79.53] helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16nJ6c-0002lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:52:46 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c1cf44$f5c2e1c0$354f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Soundcard mods Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:09:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, I have just looked at a far-eastern mother board with integral sound via a Soundpro HT1869V chip and there is no crystal or modular oscillator anywhere near that section of the board. So as Dave says it probably picks up (whoops) its clock from the main clock generators. Interesting project....if you want duplex operation avoid the Creative Labs PCI64, all the rest seem ok according to Alberto. Cheers de ALan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20278 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 12:18:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 12:18:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28872 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 12:18:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 12:18:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nK3E-0001Z3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:53:20 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nK3C-0001Yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:53:18 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.us.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA491698 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:11:22 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2JCEeN153944 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:14:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3C972BA1.1653EC96@usa.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:14:25 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Soundcard Mods References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A09@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <000a01c1cf2f$4cff5920$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by e1.ny.us.ibm.com id HAA491698 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > If you're getting ambitious there are quite a few "pro" soundcards out there > which sample up to 96kHz, input filtering is probably quite good at 22kHz > though... One such card seems to be the Terratec DMX 6fire LT >From their Web site ( http://www.terratec.net ) : -------- The DMX 6fire LT offers brilliant sound technology based on the successful EWX®/EWS88® technology: 24-bit/96 kHz converters for all inputs and outputs guarantee an absolutely flat frequency response and a signal-to-noise ratio better than -104 dB! --------- 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14263 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:48:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26074 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:47:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:47:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nJXB-0001T0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:20:13 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nJX8-0001Su-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:20:11 +0000 Received: from [62.21.136.23] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16nI07-0001IL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:41:59 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319124036.009e8ab0@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:47:46 +0100 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: LF: Proximity effect MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090300050703030302060905" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090300050703030302060905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dr. OM,

Perhaps this has been reported bnefore but just in case it has not. Terman's RADIO ENGINEERS' HANDBOOK (first Edition, Sixth Impression) contains useful information on the proximity effect and the ratio of ac to dc resistance of isolated litz wire: pages 36 and 37.
Attached a sample that hopefully passes the reflector.

73, Dick, PA0SE --------------090300050703030302060905 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Proximity effect.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Proximity effect.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAD7AOwDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3Ys28DLcj1pBIQMbufqaQccAZPoOtKTxy Oc/w0AG5/wC/37Ggu4A68d91GcA55HegcgHPTv6igCKW7jhlghknVJLhzHCrNzIwUsQPX5VJ /CoG1nT1WUtqdqoicxuftC/I3Pynng/KfyPpTNQiuJJ9PmtoVk+y3JlZGk2cGOROvOfv5/Cs c6LqnkvCVWaPy5IAktzuB3hxvHHAwVG36/UgHUZdSMlsn0NIZGzkkjHoawbTTE1D7RdS32pe Z9rmQCK/lRAFcqAFBwMAelWToSFuNW1dcnteE/zFAGqZG253nH15oLuHwCxNcn4csZ7+xupL vWNWeeDULu34utvypM4TgDH3Nv1q8dPuH1ie3GtaqkKW0cgCyxk7mdweqHsooA3suc/Oe+Bm lLN/e/8AHulYo0GQ4J1/Wz6ZnQf+yUy70q4gWJo9f1cFpo0OZIzwzAHrGfWgDdLnbkPnJ7NS bnHVzg8jnFZLaNdEgf8ACRayM8A5g/8AjVNGhTk/N4h1kk/9NYh/KMUAbCs3IMh9c0uWUA7m PTvXP3+jXkVhPLD4k1pGjhdhteE5IU/3ojTY/DlyYY3PinxAd6g4M0Pcf9cqAOj3Mcnnnp83 SkJY8fNn6msSPw/PGP8AkY9cYejTRH/2nUNrolxI93u8Q6yTHOUXNwnA2qf+efvQB0QLE8E/ XdmkJcjALdMH5v1rFXQrwNgeJ9aAPOM25/nDmoNP0q9vNMtbl/EetZlhRyQ1uOSM9oqAOgDM rBcknHQsaA5PJLcjIG6sB9IuV1GK3/4SDWFV7eWQkyx5BUoAf9X/ALR7Uy40fUIzbhPFmtlX lWMnbacAg858j2FAHRb5G+7nr/epPM5wCTzjlsVz95o+oW0AkHibWnPmxr/y7chnVT0hHYmp LvSLmGJD/b2sHdPHHzLGOGcA9I/egDcBOD87EjrhqVXYcnP/AH1XO3Oj3S6pZxJ4g1lYpElD hZ4zyoBHWMnufSrK+H7lMkeI9bOezSwn+cfFAG1uJX756jPzUgL8ZY+xyfWsj+wpsEHXtYOO P9eg/klV7rTpdPjt7lNV1R2W7t02yXO5WDSqpBG3kYJoA6D5gpO9iewzSfvM8SsPalxg/dGc kDmmgheNn6mgAAyRnOemfWgctnI6YpoIyccH1xSrnnnv270ALkAHkYHp3NA+UZ5PfrS4Iz97 rzRkk9COO9ABwepyKMDeMetCknbhex70D7+enNAGdoeXsrn5el/dfpMwrRKueApzjgntXP6H pun3NpeTXFhazSnUrzLywqxOJ3xyfatE6Lo5bP8AZNhnnk2yf4UAUvDsTQXviO3K8DVWkHHZ 4Y3/AJsa0UQnW7nC/wDLpDj675K53S9IsU8ceJYHsbYxPBY3KAwrgErJHx/36FaaaVpz67cR nTrXaLWE7fJXjMkv+FAG2FYjlTj0qpqQJjtgFx/pcPVf9qqsvhzQp1/f6Lpsg6nfao3H4iob zRdJt4rVLfS7KFBdRDbHCqgDPoBQBtgMR0br6Uqox524+uaojR9NYHfp1qcHAHlCon8PaHKQ ZNIsHbIJ3W69aALOoo40e9PJb7PJj/vk1NDGy28QwcrGoP1wKxb/AEPRrTRL822lWUP+jSnE duq/wH0FX20fSZEXfp1seAT+7HU0AXmjYqTg7vxqrZofPvxtbi6yM+8aGq58O6LuDjSLMsrZ B8ofzqra6bprzaq81nb+Wt396ReAPKj7/WgDdCsSBtPp07VnaMoXQNOyRhbWLrwB8oqGws/D uo/vLFbC5Vf4raRWAIP+yak0iKG58L6fFPEksMljErxyKCrDYOCDwaAHvLby3sE0Z8yVJGtH GSNgY5OV+qDBPbp1qLWNUstOh3XM0QmTbLFE8m0sQQo/MkD3NVrjSNItNS066jsYVuvtSxxz eUGdBtkOwMeVQAsABwM9OaXWrPSZbgi+1EWT3EaROguEj85UYsgw2TwWY8Yzkg5oA0r1oQYo ZeUlmCZztClQXBP/AHxUF7cQ3dlDPbyCWL7ZAA6/MCfOUHB/rSara2uoCxjuoop7eW4B2SIJ ElBjc9OR6HPtVPUNL0+wt7P7HaW8UkV1aRxkICY4/OUbVPVVwDgDigC/Ou7V7FuT8swwPoPx zV/YWHK4P0rM1FILnVdMhnjWQHziA444Qf4046FpD8vp0ByP7poA0TGxXOCc1j+Jf3OlQP0/ 4mVgPpm6iH9anj0LR0T5dPgC8jGCRz1rM8RadZQaVbvbWUSyjU9P5WPBA+2Q5P8An0oA6TaA 2d2OuacgAHDEg85zSMc5xk4Jxxikzn+Ij6igBgOSeOAeOKUAsv48cU7G09yR1Appw2CQCPTr QA4HnI7jp6UgAJ6/TNIoAQ4PIpTyQOMetAFWe98u/srQxE/aBJ84YDbtAPT3z+lZ8PiSOext 7yO0aVJEaZxHNG/lxrt3EkHqN4+X61pXNktxcW1x50kUlu5ZSgU5B4IOQeo44xVM6AkmfNvr xpJCRI5EYMkZCgocLjGEXkYPXnmgCDSr6xtobqCW6RXF/ckoc55lY/1q8NV08MMXKnHBAVj/ AEpmhys9lcnJz9vulHPpM4/pWkWbrk4+tAHKLqVhF4+ef7YgF3pAUlsgfuZj6/8AXar8eqWB 126lF7D5bWcCg7s8h5f8RUeqOIPHHhybcczQ3lpwcg5VJOf+/RrUjLNrdzgnP2WHnP8Aty0A MOr6aqgNexfXnn9KqXus6ZKLfbfW/FzET8wHGevNbJZ2GASD061S1V2WK1O5ubyAYH++KAGR 61ph3AajbFc5H7wGlOuaUnL6lbDA4y4rRDvsIJI6jnrTGd8KAWye+eKAMa81zSLjTbyNNVsW YwSLhZ1znaR61ZTWtLaJT/aFnjap4mX0+tWr52TTbptxyIHOc/7Jp9ux+yQEsSTGucH2oAqr rGlvIqjULVnZsKokHJPGAKpRW1nq15eXV4kMlrb3DRRQuo8sMgAeRlPBbIwCc4CjHU1t5duD nrnFY/m/2TeXcixyS2MsvmObeMu1vKQCwZVBJU8NkZwSc8UAM8nSvEUbT2MkC3cLNFFd2xXz IWUkA5XquRnaeCOoq5pN59v0m1uSqq7ph1UYUOuVYD2yDiqFprAmhuIdKWS7ujPJtOx1ijyx 5dyMcc8DnjpWtY2Safp9vaI28RLtLEYLtyS3HcnJ/GgClronFnbyW2wXC3UaxluQpcmPd77d +ffFNWPRNEeOBxbrPdyBGkmZWlmJz8zluWzjH6CrupWjX9i8CSeVL8skTnOEkVgykgdRkDPq KzLnW0UQC9t7ixuEuU3xyRMynnHyOoKuDnjHPqAeKAG3NhHpmq6WLGOGGxmu2MsOdqRuInbe g6DIBBAwO/XOXahrWjTpF5eq6cxFxbsStwhO0Sj3qTzft1/b6lLFLb6faEmHzUKPLI42b9vU KAzAAjJLZwMDN7VCVt4gOALq3HHp5qigDJvdY0xte0p01SwZFE6ti5TjKDHf2rV/tnSwADqV nzjI89ajvstrOlMpyAZsn/tnWkCcL8x5HrQBnjW9HBIGrWAbHANwo/rVLVNT0y6tYLeHUbOW Zr21IjSdGPE6HoD7VugkcHt7c1k69MYdLgfLHOoWSHd73Ma/1oA1iwyFwMZJpOD3P4NinfLx 3OT1pdre5/GgCIAAAAYA9zQCAp+79KGHbnqTilAAyDxk5GaAEADLxxx3o9BnrSseMDGOtIB0 znJ70AKCSOCcjvQDknuKaoBzwR7j6UZOQM5oAwdEvDBa3iC1vJP+JjeEOkW4f69+nNan9op5 mWt74HHX7K5A/IVBoC+XaXQx/wAxC6OPrMx/rWoSBkE5oA5TxPfYk0C7ijusW2sQbi1s6/LK Hh7j1lH6VqpeL/bVy32e6/49of8AlgSR88tU/HO1PBmoXDA7LIxXvynn9zKsv/slaceR4mvT kFTZ2+P+/k1ADjqEQ6298c8H/RJD/IVUv72OVLUeTejF3EebVx0OfStYA4PXJz1qrqJIjtSO v2qLP50ARtqcK8mzv254As3OOfpQNUhDj/RdQx/15Sf4VfVty8c5/SjkYHOcUAZGpajGdJvs Q3asbaT71pKP4T7VZ/tGKBFH2S/YIoHyWjnoPpT9UGdHvc9fs8oBwP7hqyrExowzuIHFAFP+ 1oS2DZ6gCD1+xyf4VFp96j31+scdwCbjI327qP8AUx9SQAK1OCCCMnHeqdjjzdQbubtuf+AI P6UAUY9bdXdDpl6VE8yebGi+WdsjDru68Z5AHXmrV3qM6Iq21svmvIUQ3Mnlx8AnJYbj7VdS GAAxbEKOWYrjhiTk8fUk1l6bpllcaJp7NAmTbxncpKknaOcjkmgB0+twoFZIWkwPmJbCg/XH NQPrTTTRQi0mTdcxBXDBk2lxycEEH8MdOTSTaNEmqwwpcXCxSQSuQGHDK0YXkjP8Rq01vbaZ HCqxec0lzGheUjdkng9McdcUAGr3qCymjMdwGR15EDspw6nggYNRavfwvbouy7GLu2P/AB6S 44nT/ZqxrJZtNZFGGM8P/o1M1Jqo3RRDIH+l25+uJRQBSuL6I6nYOYrw7TKD/okozlP92rP9 sQYAFtfgjr/oE3/xNF2+NV0xW6s03/oFXwQRgNkjAPtx/wDqoAqjU4C2fJvcn/pzl4/8drG8 TahHLpNsixXKs2qaeMvbSIP+PyHuy4rpBgqeTx6Vma9ELjTYgSf+P6zfAbH3bmI/0oA1SxyD t7ZzjvSZb+HOPYGjdzg8AelIMEfd/OgABwOcqPr0oJHYAZ7ikAOCDj3pcgcDtQA0AE7eD3FO 6c9fekBYkEHC564rC0+LWIrSysrgTGa3kU3F6Z1dLgfxHbnd82T8uBtyOcDkAuXt4LS+tC8z eUYpi0IAJkIC4wMZJ7ADrmsQa1dm2kMuovBcKZnVGtvKBkxG0cIDqC3DEccnrxXVvHHIFDor 7SGG9QcHPBpx27l3AHnOCOh9frQBjabLepFdLDb2rx/bbjDPcsp/1hzkBD/Ore/U+T9js/8A wNb/AONVD4eO+wuWIPGoXg/Kdx/StYIoOefzoAxtUtNQ1TR9Q097S0C3dtJAf9LY8MpHTy/e s7w5qN/qdra6gsFo5udLtHJN0wznzCf+WZ7k11Of3mc4x1Ncl4KC21newkBU0+WWzJBwFEc8 pUf98Oh/GgDaL6nk7bCzIzzm9Ydf+2VR3H9qyrbo2n2oVbiNv3d47YAYHOPLFXJrtUnSCOKa WSRdw2Kdij1Z+g+nJ9qhSzluVDalOsm1g4htyyIMdmOcv+OAfSgBi6qWk8w2xXTyzILt5QPm BwPl/ukjAOeTjjmpbvVtOsFLXd5FCBIYmJb+LaGx7cEGqs9jBbWhjk1a4hhH7yIOY8RBDv4y vIGO+cAVbtNNS1kWRZ5pCsJTc5HVm3M/TqxxntwMCgCC51DS7qxvbYahbpmJo3Jb7hYEdeOe Dx1qaLULFfKthewl1RRtRs9E3dunyjP0qrc6PZJZWIup2WKxPEkojbeWG0ltykbmJ6gA/Mcd afDp9tcRTQwz3YMTzRO5XYd7gEsMqAcKQFI4AyO1AEthq9tqGkyahEUECmTBkfgqpOGJI4BA DfQimWF7aG5Nqzol9ITLNCjtIqyALuUPtAOOPQ+wq5PZpPbx25LxwoyEKmACFIIU5HTgVU02 G081ntrp7hrXdayNuB2PndITx94nBP07UAWJNRsoJ3jku4hLGMshfleg/P5hx7iqen3VpZ2F lZG+gZ47dedxAKhTyM+yk8+hqObShHcJO+ozR28cjyhnaPKO78KMp0y2cnJyFoTw+JoFW5uL lZCwlCIyFYn45GV+bgY5z1PrQBJJqWmyX9vcDULYKsEyhWfH8SHJz0A8tutRyatYXU4hlu4I WtHjllPnBl38koDxnAIJPuKmGhW4maQ3V2QQdyFlKsCwZgflyQSDkE8bmxjNRXmiae+28u5p MW6uzNIsb5Utvbqhxz/dxwB6CgB+qPeLbSr9kh8tZYijC45b96vbbx+dO1Oa+MMebKIAXMGC bnr+9X/Zq1qqSPp8gQO7loyAoyfvqf6UzVyRaRN94fa7Yc/9d0FAFG8a+bV9MY2dvuDTY/0s /wBz/rnV5p9TT/lwtiSOALwj/wBp0XQ/4mmnHuHlH/jlXe/JYY6dKAKSzajyDp0Y/wC3of8A xNUtWmvBaQedZxRxm+tVLLc5YZnQDjaPbvW2OQByP61ieKnKaNbtu66np4xgHreQj+tAG2V3 Z6c1HhT1/U09hycE4zjNKFYjO4D0zQAw4ByTj3NOzlvp7dKQcjIOTj1p2DzgdKAEBJ25Gfaq Jvpk1d7OS3co4QwuhTGCDuJBbdwR6enXnFxupYZBOMVgoGu9aZ57C5tsTxnDPbtvZVBUghiw HHQeh9TQBvt93kY/ClxggY5JGDUbTRrIsTSxrIyGQRlhuKjjOOuOR+dQJq2ny+S0d/asskhi QrKDlwcFRz1zxigDP0aK6NndC2vYUX7fd/KYNxU+e+cncPWr/l6mw4vbPI45s2/+OCuY0eU6 Hrk0ru/2DW9QuFLMflgulkZFHsJFUD/eX3rs+Q3AoAorBqufmvLI4Pazb/47XL2uh/bPFuvW V5f3YhMtrqZgtsQxyMyeX82MsRm3BxnGfWu1Dcc8GuWunktPihYy5UW97pjWnJxmRXaRfb7q yUAbgt7yJVitLq2jhjUKqy27OQPchx/KoZzqduiEXNkzO4jGLV1wWBAOTI3fHatLgqcgD3qj qe4ixAJ5vYs8/U0AZttp2pxSveGKQyhTtie9MhYKN2MnhTI+NwGBtQDuaV9Fvftlqv2y9aHa rTSLdkZlySWIYk47BV45ORwK6BSSpHt270mRnGcmgDnjpU8trDLqXmr5Wbq5P9pSBZJY8FOh Cqm4s3AAGxMjsFNhq/nRbpneWJEZZvtJEZJB3nZn5juY8NkBVUDBzWjrsXmeHdVQEKXsplBP IHyEVdiP7qJgRlkX+VAGbaabNpf9oz26tPK6qsEc107eZsTgsWztJZiDjsFqi+jX1y0DPe3D SW00SB4r+VAVBDyuyoQGZjlQrAgDHGMiui64welVLDiTUAAP+Pps/wDfCn+tADNQsDqF7aLJ uFpGxlkMdw8ZLjGxcKRkZy2T0Kj1rMgsdf8AnlkvAVNohiRJtwEw39CRyMMCSxOSAOg56NR1 +mOlZ2gxCDw5pUGNojtIlAJ6YUCgCBLS+g0uSGKX/SZLgSwxzXLPsjDplS5yTkAkgcfNgcYq O2s9bjiBluj5oZgN8u4NhmKE4AwWLZIHRUCjvV+Uf8Tuzbgk2k44/wB+KmanAsqWQKlgl7E4 GPQ/0oAqTaPepcRfZ7u8eFFEhzdkeZKOu4kEhSFUYXAG5uKb9juLfREinmc3L3cDA3EjT4xK hUnkDPAztwM1f1iIyaUysSMyxZPQ/wCsWn6opMMTHtdQc/8AbRaAKNwmpjULBWu7MszybT9l cAfIc/8ALU1cSPVed91YsPa2df8A2oaiv8trelYYbQ0+4d/9X25rROQSD07YFAFQR6mV/wCP qz/8BnP4f6ysvxBa38mn2wnubZ4lv7FmWK2cMSt1Eeu8+g7Gugzhe2OevNZ+sD/QY1OObu24 x/03joA0Co3H1oCluen40Enr05xkDtTCAcdvpQBIeQSxHPoKTcM9cUZzu4/CkyeeCTQAu7C/ 7I7nrWC8qP4kjCwSGAyofMFwuxpPLyp2Y3E7e+cce1bcsRkjdRIUDKVJHXkYyKyrGyvbS4ha cWNwsMaRC4IImwFwex6nJ696ALk0dyNVtbmGOOSNYpIn3SbSu5lOehz92sqHSdQDBd0ex2Ks slw0jQrvV8hiuWJIY4OOo54reBUADof5U5Creg57d+aAOat9Ettb0K+tria4Cz3t1tKzsBGw uHKsB2KsAR7ijw5KdStJ7bUJLqPVtPk+z3saXkoBbGVkHzfddcMPqR2rS8PArpsny8G8vCf/ AAIkrK8SRS6PqVv4stInb7OvkapDGuTNa5zvA7tGTuH+yXHegDcXT0DDbc3ygHj/AEpj/MnN cz4nVbBJ9RE1w/8AZ32O7cyTH5Y/NkWQ+x8syV2EbCVRJHh4nAZXU5BU9CKzLiwTUr7V7G6j JtrvTooJADg7WacMM/Q0AWpNOTOBdXwIz0uWqneWTAWWLu7I+0r9+UHs3fFM8I3c+o+E9Onu A32mOM21wDnPnRMYn68/eQ1fv1JazO0gC6Q9PZqAE/s5SCTe32PUXBqFtIV2J/tHU1Gf4btv 8K013g4wfUjHWht3ZGBzQBiX2nC30e+kXUNQcrbyEiS43fwnsRV0aflFH22++6MYm2449hS6 vvbRNQG1gTay9B/sH9auENniM4NAFE6YnQ3uo59ftTc1Vs7FZZdQT7bejZc7cicg/wCrjPXH NbGGyPlbHOeOnNVLFSJr5tjfNdsTx1+VR/SgBE08gqDfXx5/im/+tVXTbJZtJsZPtN6A1vGS BcsMZUela6q25fl4z6VS0ZWTQdNXBLC1iB46/KKAIWtEW/gjE92M28p3Gclh80fc59abqFls igYX14QLiFeZR3cD096syE/23aHY2PstwCMf7cNLqKSSQRKEP/HzAx+gkU/0oAq39iFsXJub tvmTrcH++tLqFoI7ZSLm6/4+oB80xbrMo71a1NCdOlGGzuQf+PrS6oheCJdnH2qA/lIp/pQB Rns3Go2OL28YfvRneP7oP92rn9nHvd3v/f8Ax/IUXIYahp5CtjfIOn+wf8KuHdk5BPsB0FAF L+zCOV1C+A4z+/zj8xWbr8T2Wn285vbt/wDiY2KbWZSDuuol5+X3rdCsSODkd8YrG8VK8mjQ AqQRqentjHTF5CaANtuDgnPamPjcdwJPtTicE4OcDqO9NfGRlXPFACn19PXtQSduM8ntml/n R169h7UAJuwMZG6qdxqlpbXK291J5DN9x5RtR+M8N0/PFW5t3kSFGCsqkhihbB9do5P0rEsD cPdt9ra3lF4BvaPS5k3oYxwXJIHOeDnrjrQBu4wSQBnpSKB8uOmaqzXDQ3Ito7USbbZ5VVWA JKkAIB7561Ui1a4PD2sOYmXznjmJUAvtBXKjdyG64+73oAq6BpmnXGkyS3FhaSyNe3YZ3hUk /wCkSDk4rSGj6VGGVdMsghGGAgXBGO/FVNIuooLCWJo7ptt5dZKW7MM+e/cDmrn9pQdDBff+ Acn/AMTQBzWiaZpuka3N4bu9PtJYWjNxpU8kCEvDn54SccmMkY/2SPQ1uQWNjHqtz5dlAmLe EgJGFH35fT6VW121i1vT0SA3Vrf28guLK5NnL+6lGcE/Lyp5BHcE1FoniG11Se5nlH2a8jgg hurZ1bdBKDISpGPQgg9wQaAINMsbC38Ta7pM1lAyOyajbBowRtkG2QdO0iMT/vitC/0vTozY 7dOtNxu41JWFRjg+3tWb4ivrSyvdL1+ORttjKYbtlicj7LLhWJOOivsfPYKa1L29tTJZcTnb dqeLWU5wrf7NAFkaNphORZxAAn7uV+vQ05dI03I22MOR/eBOBSjUrYEkrd5z2spv/iKRNWsX LAySR7FLO88EkSgDj7zKBQBV1HR9KTTL1xp1rlbeTnygf4TUn9jaTcRxvJYQEtGp6Edvalvp obzw/qJtZBL/AKPNH8uchth4x1B6fnV22WRbS38xWBEahlxyDtFAFQaJpEbArYW/HQ7c1Xsd K0yV77dp1nJtuWHzQqcfKv8AjWwATjg4/PFZVl/xLpL43x8hbrUmFuZGyZNyrjAHTlT6cDNA FtNI0yOQMum2SsDwRAoIqrp2mWD6ZYyGzhyYU5K9OK0RMiXCW+SJHQuoCnBAxk56dxUGmwz2 +lWcFxt8+OBEkCnI3AYOKAKkml6d/a9qv2C2x9mmJDRA/wAUXrTrnTNLi+z+VpdkpadFOLdB 6n09RViSKU6zayBJPJFtOHOOAxaLAPvwfyNPuoZJBAY1c7biNiOOADzQBW1Gxs47ElbSIZkj BCLjP7xfT602/wBNsFjhJtITi4iUblz/AMtB6/WptVO3SpGbI2MjkgZ4DgmoL7ULSWFVjmyx uYDxG3OJV9qAEuNM05760QWduM+YciIDgJjqOe9T/wBi6YjEx2SAjrsJH8jUU9/Z/b7GV7qN AglBMny4yo9cVOuq6cxyL6E89A+aAF/srTgcPaxEdwQT/OqWp6VYw20TxWsMci3dscoNp4nj 6461e/tOxyQLpMnuM4/lWdq2rad9ihRL6BnkvLRVQSAMd1xGOB170AbjYBzkAZ5oOO7j86Qg HtnnvQcD0/KgA538cDHNALZIzRkcZHtSDDEHGeeDQApyVIAH+NY0EZXxFdNLHJkyho2e3kYb fKX7smdgGd3H+Na7IskbI4+RgQQOCQfcVhQqtv4hS1jjthDEAkbCYtMMR9CCeg45GT6gdSAa 89lBPMk7+aJEG0GOV0+XOcHaRkZqGHRrGM23lrP/AKPhYw1zI2QMEBssdwBAIznH4mr2TvIH PrQCxde/PHtQBm6Hh9NkZSNpvbv/ANKJK0wmegNYOhy3MemuiWTyKLy6w4lRQf8ASJPU5rR8 +8Iz/ZoIx0+0L/hQBdOccEHn0rjtYkn0LxTdeILUFreKzt/7Vt0XJkhLSjzh6tGFz7ruHJC1 0IvL0NhtHuAP7yzRcnP+9VeO6n/te7kOmzFjbQAp5kZ43y/7XuaANCaO11TT5IZdlzZXcJVu crJGw7H0INczoF3MtsmhXsrvqGjXcdu8j9ZoSG8mX33KMH/aVvSmWt3J4Tv4dMfT7r+xr2TF gd6H7PM2WMOS+Ap5K5IwflHam+KLmWz1Cx8QiwvYXsP+PuLzIv8ASLbuNquSzI3zKMf3hxk0 AdjvEaM7MFCglmY4AHrWVcm51NbWexSCS2ikWdTcOyCc4YAY2kgDIYEjkgfWrcSfbfLuZJA0 AYvAsMhKSIR8rNxzxk46c9+tRapfS2nkCPCCV2DSmB5doC5ACryST/I0AQy2Oqvfb8wrDIkf nNFM6HK5LYXaQSxCKWLZ2jjHeKLRJWe3a6uLoiQGa7ZL6YbpeQEQbhtQb3PGPurwapWtzOxN 9cQAXswi2o5cBJnG1E2Z4whLMOfvdeM1YOr6jBqI06WbT55kHmvhGjkdOSQkW5jwoPzE4JwM CgAg0nVZmZry5lzPLtuQtyVVY8s37sL0PCID8p2sSeansdFkhureS7ZjFbGR4FW6lYBnkJ5B ODtTaATn7zcAVTk1Se9sopUuITbZWeUQRSZKKRiJX3DLM+FzwOGyKWLWJLWd0VYnS3Z/tkUa u7GUjcSpJ+UGQhVU5yCSMAUAXZrHULqRjO6bWZ3McVw6AhBiNOMEAkszH6DkUt1p10mgx6bb fvWMPkySNcNGwOPvA4JILcHnODS299qMcV410tvNJCERRbxOoaY9U5JyMlPm46nPSq9jLfR3 UFvGIfsss8rMGjkL4GTI+9mOAZD8q4+6RjjoARz6JqMt1BHFceTawyxkul5KG8pUy0YX3fgk knaeOQMOGg3csnmz3j75FXzNt3MVDM26QhcgY4CpgfKCTznFO1C4u49Te7Rw1nZmNBCkMhZ5 ZCoP3Ww2ARjjA3+2agGvajNZK8dtHbzTCQQLMjsZHViNoXIJB456YDN0xQBo6LZ39qs7X8sr zSEHc0/mKTgliqhRtGSQB6AVavyzwBGQqBcwbWLfe/eIc/0/CqeravNp08IFoZEYI0jhWYLm REwCOpILYHt6Uxri7kuEZYIxdoFgX53MYd8NJkDAYKqrz65HGaAL90zDULDaSMtIMevyH/Cr QY7fmLA5/GuXvdfktXnkmfTSbQvGoeQo+/AGdu48sN+1D1wMN83G42otbiOOa1upJDGpZ4LZ inP54+nagC90J6nv1NYnisv/AGRAEJz/AGnp/Ht9shz+mavf2mmwn7Ne/T7K4/pVHVLqOaCC P7PdLuu7YgvbsAMToeuOOlAG0Rub1HsevNN3p3pS2OpA3HpmmlvU/rQAAEDBPBoycAZOD1oA /Lg804nOCD9QKAGs6pGzuyhFBJYnAAA5JNYtg0N3qklzGk01t5peKWKVGtwTGBuI3Z3ckdPf vmtW5toryzntZGYRTxNGxGMgMMH9Kp2WlvZ3Ms51S7uDIq70lWIK2BgH5UBHH8qANNSec8fQ 0KMN8ucZ5rOllMOuwiR5RG8ARQocoXL8dOAcDqaxpkuBZxqWvfNRblbQ75eZhN8m714Axu4x ntmgDV8PYGlOM8/brzjr/wAvElagOT2HHU1haXFqT207W15aRxfbrraklozkH7Q4OSJBn8qv +TqmCHv7FueP9CcHr/11oAvMQFIHT065qnGR/bd2ucD7Jb4P/A5qQRannDX1ic8cWj//AB2q 6i8bWrtEltPMFrAWJiblS8uP4vY0AWtR06z1XTptOvYhLbSphgT0PUEejA4IPYiuU0SSXT/E 32PWHlm1wkRwXM1wdl3ajdho0BC7143jBIJznBFdQyal/wA/NiM9vszn/wBqVk69o91qltbQ XtxAsgu0aC5tY3jlgfBwyks3Pb0IyD1oAbp8n/CL6vHo8gxo165/syXtBKclrc+g7ofqvYZ6 beQcHcCe2a497i7vY28N+K1sEuLn5IJkLql6AAQ6MMeXICM7M5BAIJFTafqWsaXe2+g6vJaS 3bLts72VmQXygAkcAhZAOq/xY3DuAAb+sM66FqLo7qy2su0g4IIU4I9DVtmZVHJGR+VY2rya guiakXjsgBayliJXJHyH1Wrjvq4kbFtYGPPe5cHOT/0z+lAF0yc9ew49aqafcvM98GkJ8u7a Nct0AVePzNNV9UHLW9jgAcC4f/4iq1k2oILto4LEZupGOZXOT/3zQBrMSufmPTrVXTJZJ9Is ZJJPMke3jdmY8klQSf1oj/tIOAwswo6jc5P8qpaUdT/sjT9sFkQLWLO6Zwfuj/ZoAtsJf+Eh iZpCIjZvtQE4DB1yT2PbHHHPrT9RaXZaiOVkJuow2D1XPI49apSvqP8Aa1viCz3tbSk/vnwc PFn+D3pbp9RLWqSW9kQbhdoE79QC39z2NAFzUZXisC8T7W8yMZBxxvUfyp2pSyRQxGJypNzC jYI6GQAj8QcVQvZdTa1xLbWSgzQjK3LnnzFA/wCWdPv2vmSANBaY+1RkYnYn7wx/BQBcmmmG pWaJJiNxJvUYIOAMVabg5b07msm4fUP7QsgILMviQ4Nww4wBx8nqRUwOqHG6zstvTi8c/wDt KgC8MLwDgjrWV4ikEWmwsP8AoI2Qz/vXMY/rVjfqYAza2QPp9pf/AON1ma//AGi+m2wmtrVI zqNiWaO5ZmGLqIjAKDPbuKAOgIy2BgD0zSfL3DZ9gaUk5ycYPqelKoAz8yHJ70AIB1IOPpSY w3Lg0oBOOvrjFG3rQA0gnOcYHGD3oxxnjpSnlsCjHPB47UAKTkHnn6UmSWzkjnuetKBgYb88 UBQWBA6HpQBmaFgaZLtPy/bbw/8AkeQ1pgn9KwtIshPZzyNdXceb27G2KYqoxO46Crw08AlV v9QXPrMD/MGgDR5PH55rPiAXxDesBybO37dfnn/xp50+Q9NTvvTG5P8A4mqaWMg1a5UapfAr bwknMZJ+aX1SgDXOFAwP1qhqBPm6cNvW8UfTCOf6U77BOR/yFL8d84hOf/HKrXmnziayzq96 c3AwSsHB2P0/d0AW9QsLTU7WSyvoEnt5B8yMPyIPYjqCOQa5vUNMu7Owawv4JNf0IEMpBJvb TB+VgQcybeoYEOP9o10K6fcZ51m+P1SD/wCN0fYbgOCNavuO2yDn/wAh0Acl/bzR+Gr6K8v0 1PSpLeWKLV41+aL5WGy6X+Fh034AJ6hT17ousqrIhV0YZVgcgj1HtXK+IfC9vdW1zqS6hfW2 oRwuTd2ywxyOoUnY/wAnzr7HI+lY114d8Y+HJrifw3eW1zHI2TZqiwx+58pvl3H1RkGeqnuA eiA5JJHzelVLEALd9D/pUnX1yK46z8dpEqx+I4tW8P3IGHa7tkaA/SQJiuk01F1CGe4sdckk heZmWS1MEgPA77DQBrSFhDIQeQDjjvg1Dp4A0uzAbjyIx9PlFRfYLgIc6xfE46GOD0/651Vs LS9bTbN11a4RTBGceTER90f7NAFx2B1iDnlbWTjH950/+JovMG508nkC6/8AaUgqmbO5/tZB /atxlrZjuEUWeHH+x70XdpcpJan+1rhyLlQBJFEQOG9EBoAt6mAbFMHJFzbn8pkNO1AkRw+v 2qL/ANDFVL63vBaDfqK8SxDIt1HPmL70X8F0Ps+/UpGBuYxxCn976e1AE8mRrNkw6CCfp9Y6 0OCBtz6/WsuWG7XUbXF7Gz+VKFLw5wPk64YZ6VYEGoMMG/t8g9Ra/wCL0AXPlz16DJNZut82 FuAw+a9tOfXE6H+lK9tqJ3Kmpwhu2bQHH/j1Z2tpfW9pZG4uLWVBqFmpVbVkY5nQZB8wgdfQ 0AdAw65PB9qUcjkD8qQkZy360mfTj/P0oAUk4IPIz6UmdvUAg07nB7dqaAowuQB9aAFDAZyO T6DtSEkjPb6UoCnPYnuRS4GRu7cc0AN2jAzjPTpRghv64p5QZ49u1V7uf7Dp893KHm+zwtIy xgAvtGTgE4ycetAFLw9HjT7japAN/eH/AMmHrU2HcDt4+lc5e6T4dXUS1x4ftppJHSWaYwKd rSuVUnuSWznHTrVtfCHhtDlPD2lq2eq2qA/yoA2CrHsSfpWfCjrr97wSDaW//oU3/wBamP4Y 0OXCtpduBjHyrt/lWU+n+HLeC2uBoyBrqXyEyVVuN3Us444bjOeelAHThHxyM1UvUPm2GR/y 9Dt/sPUTaFpY4FkmP9ksMfkazNQ0jRLMI0umXEq43lllciNVwCxJcf3ugyTzgGgDo1Q5GQTx SFG3Hg4FZg8M6SH/AOPQ7h3E0n/xVMPhvSvmBhuAB0xezD/2egCzrKlNB1E4b5bSUnjr8hq8 y/Ofkzk88Vz19oGjWunz3EljdTxopMiJdyEle/DSAYA681YTQtIuESWSykzIoJE80m8A84IL cH2oA2JI96jepYd1xkH6iuYj8EeHL6W4updIiiuTdSH7RaFraU/N3eMqx/OtVNB0tMeXZ7T1 G2Vx/WqNvpfh+/a5W3t5CsMux2E8iq5KhiRhvmHI5oAB4Y1C0INh4p1uBFx+6uDFdIQO2ZEL /wDj1Q6fbeMINNs/JvdGvY/IXCz2stu/TgFlZhx67fwqxNoGh2NtLctYMyoMlVmclu2Blsc5 78VYttF037NCV08xKI/ljaQ/J2xgMR+RoAoNfeJrbUYnufDttPILVxiw1ANuO5Mj96iY/P8A Gm3HiG6+12cd14U1+3/e7/M2QSqMI3H7uVj+lW5tL0WXUPsf2B2lCZMiTFQoPOM7wxzgHAB7 Z7VIPC+iq2RZMxXkE3Epx1HGW9yPxoAoX/irTfskRuIdVtt1zCMT6VcL0kX+LZjse9LfeMfD vm20T6zbwOtxG5WfdGdue+4DjnrV+6sNLsYIi1tM+9wqRxyuSWALDq2BjaTk+nrT/wCx9Lvo opxFI6SIsiH7RKOMAg/e460AUv8AhJ/Dtzq9sIPEGkyBIZi2y8jOPue/1/I1p2+qabI+yLU7 ORj/AApcIxPJ96wr3QvCTajNFdaOJ57eGOXzJd0mRI7IqqS2dxKkY9xUkHg7whqUBnbw1Ykk tHIs9sPMUg8q2c9+epHQjtQB0YlhQjdPEoHYuKz9fjNxYWxjcELf2jblIPAnjJrO/wCFfeDh KskfhnTkdedyQ7dv0xVeHwv4O0K/S4tPD8Ud3ZNDJG8EZyplYopXLeo5oA63a3sSODkUueBg flTI5PMijYxOpYZ2ScMPripFkAH3RQAgYCQgNk0u3OOSc9KTAY84PIJpeCvHr60ABB7nAoBG B/Lrmj8ePejHbdz796AFzwARgY9ar31ut5Y3Fq+5VnieJmABIDAjP61P0GNvFVdSleLSruSG ZIZVhYpLIwCqccEk8D8eKAK8umST3KSy3pZfk81BEAHCOXTBz8uCcHrkelafUHj8ayNN1K1e ymeXUNyxNljcTwuyAgYyYzgDOcUy61kre2yWc9rLDNs2qVLGUlyp2sDgYAJ5BoA2gQDkYPrW VcaRLNpz2AukWFwyEtAGIVs7sc9eeD+YNNu9aMeY7a1md98exmVdkimVUYr8w9e+PXkVNFqs LSxxt5jMz7C6xYRcu6qDk9yhHf8ADNAF5QqIgDMFXAyW9OKoapZ3d2kBtLyGBopPMKzwNKjk fdyA6ng89euPSoV1gQI32xHP76YBoYsqsaSbAW568j9eKItchW5W3ukkhmluJYYRgfvFSQJu HJOPmX884wDQBrAnzPX1INIy5z/dHvWWviC18uCc292I5jEEJiAwJGCISM5ALHHPPXilg1u3 uds9s0kkUgZVjWFt7OG2nGTxgq4II7E9qALGo2f2+ze2UWzI5G6O6g82N17grke3+FSWNo1n Y29sJDN5UYTeSckj6kn8yar2+oSX1rcz2kQkXy1e2BBUvuTcA2fqPSoIdct4wkF5co9ywYlY oihAGRyhJIPykdT09KANC8t1vLKW2eSWNZUKlojhgD6GoLHTEsZriQXdxMLjYRHIVCxhV2/K ABjgfpTG16wUpu89CZI4nBgYGNpGCoGHbcWXFN/ty28rzFguzFgMW8n7qE4DEZzgnOO/B7Cg C3dwm4tnhHljdxmSISL1BwVyM0zTrIWFkLZGBw7yEqmxcuxYgDsMniqlvrJLSfaYWjxLNHHG Ivmk2SrGpDbscllHbr2Ap9trtrNdJAIbpQz+T5jRYRZOcoTnrlSPT35oAfNpQk1P7T5kaqZE ldTCC5dBgbXJ4GOvB78jNaHUncAPQH0rG/4SFIorh7m0ugkU0uSkY+WKM4aQ5bJAyM4554Bq 3c3k0V7MEMCWtrGstwZEYsynfnaQeMbc9Dn2oAfqFj9ujgUNCDFKJVE0XmISAR8y5H97I54I FSWVstjp8FmhLJDGIwcYHA9B0FVhrMTSeSbe6DKcSgov7nlcbvm/2lPGeKbBqpl1cQeU6wPG nlsyHLMxcg8H7pVD1wRj3FAEl3pzzTzTJOqM8cIUFCcPHIzgnnkEnGOPrTrC0ktYJRJIHnnm aaR0XauT2AJJGAAOtU5ddBt7a5topJbZpkEsxQbQhBJxyDxxng9+9TDWoGmhiW1vmmkOPL8n lR8h3NzwMSL+vcYoA0RwpGPoDVO60/7U9zIGgbzYo49k8PmJ8jMwJXIz9725AqDUr69t7mc2 5t/ItbQ3MiyRsWk5bgMGAXheuD9KSTXba1S5lmeWSOGRyTFAR5SK2w7jnn5w3I9+OCaAL9la x2NjBbx4ZIUCDjH/AOoe1S8DuBSnrtOODShmwOaAEDE87RnOM0c7hxgHr60KcNjOKXHJHGR/ s0AIMgk9e4oJABxjgelC4AyQeO9VYtV02eVIob+2kldyiokgJLAZI+oHOKALQLc8Z54qtqV6 NP0y5umi84RpuKdARwOTg4HqccDNW9vIIwQOlRTTRWsDTTTRxRJy0kjBQv1JoAzNBv2vf7TP +jAQ3QjX7NKJI9vkxtw20Z5Y9uua0J7SC63ieJZC6BWz3AOR+R5z1FSwrEI1MYiCEDGwDBGO OnUYpZXSKN5HKxxqCSxOAAO5oAprpOnRztKlrGshYFn5zkOHAHtuGcdM59TQumWSXMMyQ/PE DtxI2M5J5GcNgsxGemTjFPtdQsdQB+xXtrcgAMfJmV8A9DwelWs9MLz60AUv7NstkimE4l37 syNn5m3NjnjnmnNZWzSxyMjo8cjSApI6/MTk5wcMCQDg8VOzoJVjMqiVgWVCwyQOpA/EfnQ7 RxI0sjqkSqWZnbAAHOSaAKjaNprm3LWasYEjSMkn5RGdyd+qnkdxk+tL/ZOnhNiWwQDDAIxX H0wRjqc+uT6mrYZQQAQfoaJpFhRnldEiVSWdzgKPUnpQBXh02yt7aS1gthHA4AKKxGAFCjHP GAqgYx0qvPo1u9tLFbvNBM0TxrKJXY/MDy4LfvCCSRuz7VooUdA6SK6MNysOhB7g9xSD7wzg cZoAojRtOPlMYA7RFSHeRiWZSCpbn5iCAQTnHany6Tp0qoj2y7EQIFDEKQDkAjPODyM5wTkV dzz1pokR5HjDqWTG9dwyuRkZHagCrJptjMvlyW4ZfnIKsQQXcSEgg5B3BWBHIIGKI9Os4Y40 jg+VHEg3MTlgMBiSck+55J5q6q/MWC/Q0Y3EnqfegClPpVjcMrvaozKznO4jO8guDg8hiASp 4OBxxRcaVZXlz9ouIBK+wxsN7bHXnhkB2tjc2Mg4ycYq4Mdlxnj8aggvrK6kMdvdW8zcsFil VjgHaTgf7QI+ooAhh0q1tlaNImbco3NLI0jNzn5mYknt36ADtUQ0TTkaRkt3DNs+dZnVl27t oVgcqAHYADAwxFX/ADoJJ5IFnja4iVTJGrZZA2cEjqM4OPpUow3U0AZ40iwBI+zDaVUeWWYq AOMBc4HHXHXvmnWumWllKssEREgDASPI0jkNtyMsSf4EHtgCphd2ZlMX2q3Mgk8orvXIcru2 4z1xzjrjmpy6IoLEKMZ3N2/GgCpPplrcz+bNEzNtVGHmMFZQcgMoOGGSeoPWqt14e0y8V/Og LBg4dBK4WTc5c7lBw2GZiuc4J4xWhb3EN7bx3EEqSwyJvSSNgVYHoQakUHH+IoAhhgEClAXI Lu2ZHZzlmLEAkk4BYgDoBgDAFSn3JH40BsKGIwD0GaaSoPKe/WgBwySDnn1zS7cJjPGfSkBO GwepzSnsB68/SgBVY4+6RzXOxaRfNBqzyhkmmklltkWfAVmUBSGXBUjBz9a6LPPB5PYUmc+v 40AYQtNXS7tnG51EsZJa5bCRiMBlI3fMxcHk5+9ntVnULS51G105mjMbwzpcTwJIDuG0gqG6 cFge3StQEE9jj09aUPkgAcfX9KAMiws9Qi0y2s5ZltGto0TfbojK429NpX5cdKtQwXkDBn1G W4AJOwwxqWHpkYrDTWNdnjgQWqW00ywb5JLd3WGSRZd8ZAIzsKR/NkA761tUmuoL3SjA7CFr spchYWfK+VJjJB+UbgvJ7kUAZNnoNza6TZAm7OowJHbB1mRSkIdS4XGAQQvfJ6fWr5tNXSd1 W4lkgO9d3nDcybAEA9G3ZJbH59KzbjUNXvI5LOSGSJ1SFi0drKvzC62tg55GwA4B6HPINX01 jUXuGQ2KiJSDFIysBOvmOrbQMlSqBW5B3buMUARfZtdSwaN3me7FrcR+fHJHzKSvlsM9Oh4x ge/Wia31si6WNZ/LeOdEE0yNjKr5ffH3t/rwee1W9Nv7y70i6nu4vIuEyq7ImYY2KwIH3m5b HQcgjtVTTLu+gjs7doWxsiLGVXLvvQu75Y5UK2RtPTpxkUAFzHfWsupXKG5V55InttjbwSqL +7YKDtBKsCcYG4EVc1CyuJNDa0HnXM7ujOBKNw+cMwBJHAHH0qfTLm+u9GhnlNul3PErhRGw VGKA4Kk54bIPIrM/tfWTZQzrYxFp1ZlR4nTy2VR8jck5Zt+DjoBwc0AOmh14XNwLcOIW3Bcy J8ih0wEweCU3gcDBPJPWny2eqrLI9u0vmvbCJHmmHyYdycgZG4qVAP5njlv9rajHbtdTQx7R fPb/AGcW7LKYllZNy5b5sgxtkcYz1yKs6m17Ho9sCwkvBc2gkNurKv8Ar03kDJO0Luzk9Ac0 AJDBqRvYTM9wlovmEYlUn7y7A3rwH6eo570lxDfNfSGOG68gzod0UqKWQIQed2cZI4/Kqc+u 3MIe5aEbxiIApJjBufLDYzgkqQwHU9M4Oaih1PUTdRXzIJd8cUUqwW0rqM3DKw4JCsiH5s/y oAuXC6mPDumCc3Jv1ktlufJfDP8AMokOV4wRuPb8DRDFry3Fo82XCuBIolUDyy0vB9WAMWT3 KnHvLqs9zHqllHF5oiW3uJSER9pdAmwMVI9W+U9cGm/2lqoliX7HFNugSTCqyebu35VSSdpX CZz13dqAK8tvr8dpZG3knknWMNOskseDIGiyM+hVZMdfvc44xH9j1YO5t7c2+DLh2kQ5V7kO wADZyY8jORg/nViDWLySYIY0dUaDz1SB9yB1bPy5zwwHOPX0zVew1zV7uytHubFILiSzSWVG hkDbzEzPtTrw4C7Sc89eQCAaWl2t3BqEs11mQvbxx+ccZO15CAQCf4XAzz0NZ7xaxBDAJLi7 e6eSMbM/u3OSJDuQfKpDBhnH3cYHOXrrGq7Z43so0kjlEayyRSBGBt1kB2jnHmFk742+tOt9 UvxdpbxWhMbzz75ZlkUcTqoUZzglGLDsccYGcACJY6lb6puQSy24uYmaQyoWeMQFGPJzncQe 3tTbOz1VYbeK4+0tGohaffchnkdQ2/ad3A3eWeo4U/ja0bVJ72Jlv4BBMX+RY4227RGjNkno dzkfMFPHTitYENg4yPegDmLDTNat9IgtsSwNHZiIJHOuA22QEEg9SSjBh6duc2oLHWE1HTna 4nNqkaeessu7LYbcCQwzzt7Nn1Fb457kelNBXBIIwxz07UALjHUY54IqGR1jbBkQfVgKmP3u COeDUMsc7vmIQlRxl15oAmCAj1x2pSCCSfw56Uwkkrnv1pXOEOKAF5Ckg8UDhRgn8TSAkhvp Suen+9QAfw/eYH2oxkYyR2PNIpO0nNEZypOBwPSgBcfN1xx60uDk5P60dCceopIySeTQADIU EsfbvS8beSeetH8LH0NL/Go9/wClAAB6kkH+VIF5OG/AmkPQc9jR0lKjoFzQAbOSNx9Mk0pH JGSFx2pHJ3/jSrywHagCNoY5SjSRozRHchZQSp9R6Gn4yfeh/uDnr1px4ZQOhoAayho9r4ZT 6jNNCqiBYwFTsAMAU8EkZJ5zikJIDYPRRigAzgE56dxTsHBUsajVjtHuCf50uSHwOOf8KAFA VXLBQCeCwAyaUA9z2HFHb8TQOAmM8jnmgBDlMAtzn60jHP8AESOhPtTm/wBav+e9RsTtY9wD QA/JOMsQCPWlwRnaQckcZoVQzlT0BIpByi596AEzg5JycDNGG/iIxnjA6ULyW9s07/lgG7kU AIeMkDODx04qvLc+SwUW08nGdyLkVKeJGUdMGlBI4FAH/9k= --------------090300050703030302060905-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16102 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:11:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:11:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16487 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIzu-0001KB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:45:50 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIzs-0001K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:45:48 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2JB7EGO119930 for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:07:15 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020319120232.3127297c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:02:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Soundcard Mods In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A09@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Andy, if you (your company) can spend some dimes on it I would strongly recommend to use a good ADC card. There is a lot of plug-in cards available, but we tend to use Keithley cards. For a recent project I used one of their top-level cards that included a high quality 16-bit / 100kHz ADC (and furthersome DAC, accurate timing control etc.), it costed somewhere arround 1700 Euro. If you are satisfied with lower sample rates (40kHz or so) prices go down to 650 Euro. It is probably possible to do some changes on a soundcard board to get it stable at a convenient clockrate, but if you count all the hours of work it might end up more expensive ... Also be aware that a soundcard has capacitive input coupling (I measured the -3dB point at 30Hz once), so low frequencies / slow changes will be distorted. Bypassing the input caps doesn't work as it causes the DC offset to go crazy. 73, Rik ON7YD At 09:59 19/03/02 -0000, you wrote: >Has anyone tried changing the clock source on a Soundcard for a different >frequency ? For a job here at work we need to sample more accurately than >the usual crystal oscillator (does this sound familiar ?) and at different >sampling rates. It would be ideal if we could push it to 50kHz, but 25kHz >and 12.5kHz would do, as well as accurate 8 and 16kHz options. One idea >that immediately comes to mind is to remove the Soundcard clock crystal and >feed in the input from a synthesizer. Before diving inside a PC, I wonder >if anyone has ever tried this ? Modifying the integrated soundcard on the >Dell machines here could prove a bit tricky just to try on spec. > >For LF use, how about an externally derived 1kHz sampling rate for input >from receivers using a narrow CW filter and BFO pitch set below 400 Hz ? > >Andy G4JNT - but with another hot on now. > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19591 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:00:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7455 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 11:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 11:00:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIm3-0001FE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:31:31 +0000 Received: from nat3.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.5] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIm0-0001F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:31:29 +0000 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 5A920299FB; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 05:52:54 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020319105254.5A920299FB@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 05:52:54 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Cesare,
Funny thing, I too wasted a lot of time yesterday messing about with Excel trying to find a fit and the best I came up with was that it was approx. k/log(D/d). Polynomial fits didn't seem to work too well.

Thanks for the formula. It doesn't quite work though for values of D/d from 2 to 4, but perhaps the data were only approximations?

The data alone are pretty useful. Looks like that time at College wasn't entirely wasted, hi!
BTW Bill pointed out that the minimum separation can be small as you like if you use Litz wire and can get Rrf down or close to Rdc, because
Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQRT (1-Rdc/Rrf)
reduces to 1 when Rdc = Rrf as an alternative to q = 1.

Thanks again.
73, John, G4CNN


--- On Mon 03/18, cesare tagliabue wrote:
> Hello John
> I have found the Mesny's expression on an old university stenciled
> book where only the data were given, but some time ago, for purpose of
> include it in a program, I have elaborated an empiric expression that
> approximates sufficiently these data. That is:
> q = ( 1 + .95 d / D )^2 -
> .22
> Best 73 to all Cesare
>
> Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC
> WW-Loc JN53PS
> e-mail: cestag@dada.it
> url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: john sexton
> A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 17.46
> Oggetto: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> From the interesting formula given by Cesare, the short answer to your
> question appears to be 1/2 inch.
> I tried to find out more about Mesny's expression from the Internet,
> but it looks like you have to buy the book.
> I wonder whether Cesare can be persuaded to tell us the formula that
> relates q to D/d? At a guess it appears to be logarithmic.
> The second formula can be simplified to
> Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q-1)*sqrt(1-Rdc/Rrf)
> When D/d = 9, q = 1 so the second term disappears and Reff = Rrf.
> 73, John, G4CNN
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2603 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:58:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:58:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2217 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:58:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIkb-0001F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:30:01 +0000 Received: from nat3.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.5] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIka-0001EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:30:00 +0000 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id ACF1E299FB; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 05:51:25 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: QRSS on 137.65kHz From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020319105125.ACF1E299FB@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 05:51:25 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri, Hi Giulio, Hi Guys,
At Geri's suggestion, I will change my transmit frequency to 137.69kHz to get into the window of listening stations. I was simply trying to keep clear of other activity which I know takes place on 137.7.

So my schedule will be QRSS10 each weekday on 137.69 from 16.00 to 19.00 and later if possible.
Looking forward to some QSOs.

Will listen out for you Giulio IK2DED after 20.30 and call if I hear you.
73, John, G4CNN

--- On Tue 03/19, Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW wrote:
> Hello John,
>
> >Interesting...
> >i hope more activity in QRSS from North European station.
> >I am active, like I5TGC, all the evening at 137.70 from 20.30 UTC to
> 21.30
> >UTC.
> >Hope to listen you in your on air time John!
> >73 to all, IK2DED Giulio.
>
> > Hi Guys
> > I am restarting my QRSS transmissions on 137.65kHz from 16.00 UTC at
> least
> >until 19.00 every weekday afternoon.
> > I am particularly looking for responses from outside the UK.
> > 73, John, G4CNN
>
> ... is there any reaon why to use 137.65 kHz? I know that several
> stations
> (like myself) are actively listening/watching for QRSS activity
> throughout
> the evening or on Saturday/Sunday mornings. If those stations center the
> screen on 137.700 kHz, they might not be able to "see" 137.650
> kHz any more
> if a narrow filter is used (I, for example, use a 100 Hz wide mechanical
> filter, so maybe I might just be able to see your frequency, but already
> with some dB less than the main part of my narrow frequency band). So
> maybe
> you want to move closer to the center?
>
> Looking forward to further QSOs with you, vy 73
>
> Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)
>
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 187 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:57:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 963 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:57:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIj3-0001EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:28:25 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIj2-0001ER-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:28:24 +0000 Received: from host213-122-215-129.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.215.129] helo=default) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16nHC8-0004Gy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:50:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c1cf33$d9c172e0$81d77ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:48:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, NOAA SEC forecasts the slight possibility of a major X-ray flare with the next three days. The recent bout of M-Class flares produced a CME which arrived around midnight last night, driving the Kp index up to 5. I expect this to start to affect LF radio conditions by about Friday, leading to a deterioration of long nightime paths, but a substantial enhancement of daytime paths again. (Just in time for the weekend !!) More detail on my web site http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk or via the Propagtion "pop-up" on Dave's site http://www.wireless.org.uk There was a good program on UK Channel 5 the other night explaining the solar events called "Killer Sun" with some spectacular SOHO graphics of flares, prominances, and CMEs. (No comment much about LF though except the sweeping statement that these events "disrupt radio communications" !!) Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16442 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 132 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:22:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:22:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIDY-00017V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:55:52 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nIDW-00017I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:55:51 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.144] helo=dellboy) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16nGgM-0007Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:17:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1cf2f$4cff5920$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A09@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Soundcard Mods Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:17:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy. The clock for the integrated sound chip may be derived from other system clocks. Better to disable the internal audio and mess about with a £10 PCI sound card! If you're getting ambitious there are quite a few "pro" soundcards out there which sample up to 96kHz, input filtering is probably quite good at 22kHz though... See HHB.co.uk and other pro-audio dealers. 73 Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: LF: Soundcard Mods > Has anyone tried changing the clock source on a Soundcard for a different > frequency ? For a job here at work we need to sample more accurately than > the usual crystal oscillator (does this sound familiar ?) and at different > sampling rates. It would be ideal if we could push it to 50kHz, but 25kHz > and 12.5kHz would do, as well as accurate 8 and 16kHz options. One idea > that immediately comes to mind is to remove the Soundcard clock crystal and > feed in the input from a synthesizer. Before diving inside a PC, I wonder > if anyone has ever tried this ? Modifying the integrated soundcard on the > Dell machines here could prove a bit tricky just to try on spec. > > For LF use, how about an externally derived 1kHz sampling rate for input > from receivers using a narrow CW filter and BFO pitch set below 400 Hz ? > > Andy G4JNT - but with another hot on now. > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12838 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:05:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:05:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12328 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:05:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:05:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nHwK-00014H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:38:04 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nHwJ-00014C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:38:03 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA32707; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:11:13 GMT Received: (qmail 6716 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 10:46:21 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (HELO mailguard.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 10:46:21 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:08:55 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:59:57 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9A09@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Soundcard Mods Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:59:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anyone tried changing the clock source on a Soundcard for a different frequency ? For a job here at work we need to sample more accurately than the usual crystal oscillator (does this sound familiar ?) and at different sampling rates. It would be ideal if we could push it to 50kHz, but 25kHz and 12.5kHz would do, as well as accurate 8 and 16kHz options. One idea that immediately comes to mind is to remove the Soundcard clock crystal and feed in the input from a synthesizer. Before diving inside a PC, I wonder if anyone has ever tried this ? Modifying the integrated soundcard on the Dell machines here could prove a bit tricky just to try on spec. For LF use, how about an externally derived 1kHz sampling rate for input from receivers using a narrow CW filter and BFO pitch set below 400 Hz ? Andy G4JNT - but with another hot on now. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20240 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 07:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 07:32:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1227 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 07:32:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 07:32:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nFVb-0000fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:02:19 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nFVa-0000fN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:02:18 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA27465 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:23:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:22:31 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: New station testing on 136.5kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203190222_MC3-F65B-3188@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello YLs and OMs, >Hello Group, >if there is someone out there ready to transmit, look for DJ3QO on 136.5kHz. >The signal is very strong here with a short untuned wire plugged into my >TS850, but that is no wonder because Karl is only a few dozen kilometers away. >Good luck, >Wolf ( DL4YHF, not at DF0WD at the moment ;-) > Locator Square JO42FD ... I heard Carl, DJ3QO testing the other night and gave him a call, he is 101km away from my QTH and has a very good signal here. He told me that he is not very good in CW, so please QRS when you give him a call. Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17098 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 07:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 07:30:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 367 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2002 07:30:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2002 07:30:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nFSb-0000dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:59:13 +0000 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16nFSZ-0000db-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:59:11 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA20229 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:20:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:20:23 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: QRSS on 137.65kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203190220_MC3-F65B-3179@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John, >Interesting... >i hope more activity in QRSS from North European station. >I am active, like I5TGC, all the evening at 137.70 from 20.30 UTC to 21.30 >UTC. >Hope to listen you in your on air time John! >73 to all, IK2DED Giulio. > Hi Guys > I am restarting my QRSS transmissions on 137.65kHz from 16.00 UTC at least >until 19.00 every weekday afternoon. > I am particularly looking for responses from outside the UK. > 73, John, G4CNN ... is there any reaon why to use 137.65 kHz? I know that several stations (like myself) are actively listening/watching for QRSS activity throughout the evening or on Saturday/Sunday mornings. If those stations center the screen on 137.700 kHz, they might not be able to "see" 137.650 kHz any more if a narrow filter is used (I, for example, use a 100 Hz wide mechanical filter, so maybe I might just be able to see your frequency, but already with some dB less than the main part of my narrow frequency band). So maybe you want to move closer to the center? Looking forward to further QSOs with you, vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25887 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 22:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 22:33:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 22924 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 22:33:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 22:33:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n79S-00085E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:06:54 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n79Q-000858-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:06:52 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.us.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA383056 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2IMSD8143468 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3C966A4E.AAEA794D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:29:34 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: PHD Radio 0.92, with calibration References: <126.d821fc9.29c7a491@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, I have just uploaded V 0.92 of PHD Radio. It offers a calibration capability, where you input a known and precise frequency, tell its value to the program, and it then assesses what the real sampling rate is, based on that information. The correction factor so computed is remembered from session to session, as are other program parameters. http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_092.exe Thanks to Wolf DL4YHF, who suggested the use of the 15625 Hz TV horizontal sync frequency for calibration purposes. As a matter of fact, with a bare loop, without preamp, directly connected to the sound card, that signal is quite visible on Spectran, and useable for calibrating PHD Radio. I can even check, from the phase discontinuities, when my wife upstairs changes the TV program :-) The program has still many weak points, as I said it was born like an exercise, so please bear with me. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10822 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 20:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 20:44:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 7403 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 20:44:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 20:44:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n5Pl-0007kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:15:37 +0000 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n5Pk-0007k8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:15:36 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia29.phoenix.it [213.82.97.93]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g2IKbVk24488 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:31 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c19cd8$3eb4f480$5d6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3726815.1016477612338.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Re: QRSS on 137.65kHz Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:48:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Interesting... i hope more activity in QRSS from North European station. I am active, like I5TGC, all the evening at 137.70 from 20.30 UTC to 21.30 UTC. Hope to listen you in your on air time John! 73 to all, IK2DED Giulio. > Hi Guys > I am restarting my QRSS transmissions on 137.65kHz from 16.00 UTC at least until 19.00 every weekday afternoon. > I am particularly looking for responses from outside the UK. > 73, John, G4CNN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13573 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 20:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 20:17:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9840 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 20:17:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 20:17:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n53g-0007fL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:52:48 +0000 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n53f-0007fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:52:48 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.126.d821fc9 (4257) for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:14:09 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <126.d821fc9.29c7a491@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:14:09 EST Subject: LF: New station testing on 136.5kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Group,

if there is someone out there ready to transmit, look for DJ3QO on 136.5kHz.

The signal is very strong here with a short untuned wire plugged into my TS850, but that is no wonder because Karl is only a few dozen kilometers away.

Good luck,
Wolf  ( DL4YHF, not at DF0WD at the moment ;-)
 Locator Square JO42FD

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26190 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:49:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19402 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:48:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n4TT-0007YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:23 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n4TS-0007YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:22 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17036 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:37:18 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-16.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:37:18 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:44:57 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:28:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Cesare, Thank you for your timely proximity equation! I calculate the spacing required to keep the proximity loss at 10% for two #12 ga (2.0 mm) copper conductors to be 0.5 inches. The spacing required for #12 Litz wire would be almost 0 because the sq root terms at the right side, based on Rrf/Rdc (mostly skin effect), would be close to 0. Would appreciate a check of my math from anyone. Bill A -----Original Message----- From: cesare tagliabue [mailto:cestag@dada.it] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 1:06 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Hello John I have found the Mesny's expression on an old university stenciled book where only the data were given, but some time ago, for purpose of include it in a program, I have elaborated an empiric expression that approximates sufficiently these data. That is: q = ( 1 + .95 d / D )^2 - .22 Best 73 to all Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC WW-Loc JN53PS e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: john sexton < computernetworks@excite.com > A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org < rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 17.46 Oggetto: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Hi Paul, >From the interesting formula given by Cesare, the short answer to your question appears to be 1/2 inch. I tried to find out more about Mesny's expression from the Internet, but it looks like you have to buy the book. I wonder whether Cesare can be persuaded to tell us the formula that relates q to D/d? At a guess it appears to be logarithmic. The second formula can be simplified to Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q-1)*sqrt(1-Rdc/Rrf) When D/d = 9, q = 1 so the second term disappears and Reff = Rrf. 73, John, G4CNN _____ ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2028 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:24:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17902 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 19:24:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 19:24:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n4BO-0007Ue-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:42 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n4BN-0007UZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:41 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0GT60064JN5LCP@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:32 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: QRSS on 137.65kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3726815.1016477612338.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys I am restarting my QRSS transmissions on 137.65kHz from 16.00 UTC at least until 19.00 every weekday afternoon. I am particularly looking for responses from outside the UK. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15382 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 18:14:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 18:14:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 29748 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 18:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 18:14:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n351-0007Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:46:03 +0000 Received: from mail3.dada.it ([195.110.96.70] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n34z-0007KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:46:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 4809 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 18:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.247) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 18:07:18 -0000 Message-ID: <002401c1cea7$a044ac80$f7676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:05:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hello John
        I have found the Mesny's expression on an old university stenciled book where only the data were given, but some time ago, for purpose of include it in a program, I have elaborated an empiric expression that approximates sufficiently these data. That is:
                                                 q = ( 1 + .95 d / D )^2 - .22 
Best 73 to all  Cesare
                              
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: john sexton <computernetworks@excite.com>
A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 17.46
Oggetto: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac

Hi Paul,
From the interesting formula given by Cesare, the short answer to your question appears to be 1/2 inch.
I tried to find out more about Mesny's expression from the Internet, but it looks like you have to buy the book.
I wonder whether Cesare can be persuaded to tell us the formula that relates q to D/d? At a guess it appears to be logarithmic.
The second formula can be simplified to
Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q-1)*sqrt(1-Rdc/Rrf)
When D/d = 9, q = 1 so the second term disappears and Reff = Rrf.
73, John, G4CNN

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29136 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:37:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:37:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20708 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:37:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n2YF-0007Fx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:12:11 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n2YE-0007Fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:12:10 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 21794 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:33:57 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-3.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:33:57 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: TX Loop antenna conductors Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:25:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, I did a lot of reading about proximity effect in a number of old college text books of mine yesterday (who woulda thunk that this boring stuff would come in handy some day?). The new numbers I calculated are closer to yours than my 3/5. >I find the usual formula for the ratio of Rac/Rdc = d*sqrt(mu*f/rho) very unsatisfactory for >small diameters, since as d gets smaller the ratio cannot get less than 1. The same is true for >low values of frequency. Instead I use a couple of series approximations to the Bessel >functions. So I checked your figures and found for AWG #12 at 185kHz, a ratio of 3.6 and for #8 >a ratio of >5.56, quite close but slightly higher than your figures. >The point you made is of course why it is better to use properly made Litz wire to keep the >advantage of thicker wire. Right. I'm still pondering what the spacing should be between two #12 Litz wires to keep the proximity effect to <10%. I'm calculating something like 0.12" but this is much closer than originally thought. Does your math handle this? Thanks, Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22505 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:21:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:21:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14841 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:21:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n2F0-0007BD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:52:18 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n2Ez-0007B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:52:17 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 29980 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 17:13:52 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-16.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 17:13:52 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:21:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: RE: TX Loop antenna conductors Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:05:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, >So don't waste your money on #8 wire when the #12 is slightly lossier and a >heck of a lot cheaper. Am I right on this Bill??? Well.... It depends on what you are willing to spend to gain 2.2db in signal strength and what kind of price you can find. At 7 cents more per foot for #8, that would be $14.... Pocket change for most of us. Actually I found 400ft of #8 on sale at Sears a month ago for 6 cents per foot! For loop experiments (determination of best conductor location, measurement of soil loss at different heights, signal strength, transmitter testing, etc), I prefer the #12. Bill A >>Even though the Rdc for #8 is over 2.5 times lower than #12 for the same length, the Rac is >>only about 35% lower. This amounts to a mere 2.6db signal improvement, assuming no soil loss. >>With typical soil loss factored in, the signal improvement would be less than 2.2 db. ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24020 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 16:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 16:40:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29778 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 16:40:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 16:40:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n1fE-00074Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:15:20 +0000 Received: from nat5.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.7] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n1fD-00074L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:15:20 +0000 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 1508F1E479; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:36:33 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020318163633.1508F1E479@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:36:33 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Paul,
>From the interesting formula given by Cesare, the short answer to your question appears to be 1/2 inch.
I tried to find out more about Mesny's expression from the Internet, but it looks like you have to buy the book.
I wonder whether Cesare can be persuaded to tell us the formula that relates q to D/d? At a guess it appears to be logarithmic.
The second formula can be simplified to
Reff/Rrf = 1 + (q-1)*sqrt(1-Rdc/Rrf)
When D/d = 9, q = 1 so the second term disappears and Reff = Rrf.
73, John, G4CNN

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21014 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 16:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 16:07:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 27360 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 16:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 16:07:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n18E-0006wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:41:14 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n18D-0006wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:41:14 +0000 Received: from host62-7-9-199.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.9.199] helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16mzbJ-0001S1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:03:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c1ce96$bc7cdb40$c709073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Junk mail via lf reflector Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There have been a number of instances recently (one today) of spam being sent via the lf reflector. The reflector is in fact configured so that anybody can post (try it with one of your alternate email addresses), but obviously only those subscribed will receive postings. Perhaps it is time to change this, ie so that only those subscribed can post. Perhaps the sysops of the list would comment. Spam is getting more and more of a nuisance. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22956 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 15:25:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 15:25:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 15204 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 15:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 15:25:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n0QF-0006oF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:55:47 +0000 Received: from smtp1.snet.net ([204.60.203.69] helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16n0QE-0006oA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:55:46 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g2IFGFop008773 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:16:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000401c1ce90$4cbc35e0$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001001c1ce84$e91bc240$8f666ec3@cestag> Subject: LF: Re: R: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:19:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mta3.snet.net id g2IFGFop008773 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Cesare, Thank for the information on the proximity effect. It looks likes that the spacing between conductors needs to be quite a bit less than I was estimating. This makes building the antenna significantly easier than first thought. After searching the web I found nothing at all relating to the calculations needed to determine spacing. Also very impressive webpage you have. Thank you for having an English version. Thank you again Paulc W1VLF ----- Original Message ----- From: "cesare tagliabue" To: Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 8:57 AM Subject: LF: R: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac > Hello Johan > I've used SQR as square root, as is usual in Basic language, sorry ! > 73 Cesare > > Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC > WW-Loc JN53PS > e-mail: cestag@dada.it > url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Johan Bodin > A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 11.45 > Oggetto: LF: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac > > > Cesare Tagliabue wrote: > > > Reff / Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQR (( p - 1 ) / p ) > > This info is interesting! > > Question: Is SQR "squared" or "square root" ? > > In some programming languages SQR (X) = X^0.5, in others > SQR (X) = X^2 while SQRT (X) = X^0.5... > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11219 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 14:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 14:06:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 3583 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 14:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 14:06:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mzCT-0006d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:37:29 +0000 Received: from mail3.dada.it ([195.110.96.70] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mzCS-0006cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:37:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 23595 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 13:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.143) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 13:58:48 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c1ce84$e91bc240$8f666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:57:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Johan I've used SQR as square root, as is usual in Basic language, sorry ! 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC WW-Loc JN53PS e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Johan Bodin A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Data: lunedì 18 marzo 2002 11.45 Oggetto: LF: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Cesare Tagliabue wrote: > Reff / Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQR (( p - 1 ) / p ) This info is interesting! Question: Is SQR "squared" or "square root" ? In some programming languages SQR (X) = X^0.5, in others SQR (X) = X^2 while SQRT (X) = X^0.5... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17105 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 10:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 10:42:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 1517 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 10:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 10:42:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mw3m-0006BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:18 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mw3l-0006B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:17 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.40.249]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020318103813.MEYK25525.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:38:13 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c1ce69$26d58560$f92865d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000401c1cddd$8fa4e720$15666ec3@cestag> Subject: LF: Re: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:56:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Cesare Tagliabue wrote: > Reff / Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQR (( p - 1 ) / p ) This info is interesting! Question: Is SQR "squared" or "square root" ? In some programming languages SQR (X) = X^0.5, in others SQR (X) = X^2 while SQRT (X) = X^0.5... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16552 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 09:39:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 09:39:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27452 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2002 09:39:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2002 09:39:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16muyT-000603-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:06:45 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16muyL-0005zw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:06:43 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2I9RUuN028680 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:27:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020318102251.095f5cda@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:22:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Loop and inverted L aerials In-reply-to: <000101c1cc74$fa9620e0$9721073e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alan, >Using Dave G3YMCs figures for dynamic resistance and and assuming it increases >linearly with increasing loop periphery, I worked out the efficency of several >loop sizes. Assuming that dynamic resistance = radiation resistance and periphery = circumreference : The radiation resistance of a loop is proportional to the square of the loop area. So doubling the circumreference (keeping the shape unchanged) will quadruple the loop area and thus it will increase the radiation resistance by a factor of 16. But at the same time it will double the 'copper-loss' so the efficiency of the loop will increase 8 times (assuming the 'copper-loss' is dominant). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15757 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 19:15:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 19:15:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18533 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 19:15:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 19:15:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mhc2-0004T3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:50:42 +0000 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mhc0-0004Sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:50:41 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.3e.1b00dab2 (4332) for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:12:05 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.1b00dab2.29c64485@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:12:05 EST Subject: Re: LF: Fwd: [Hellschreiber] Dr. Rudolf Hell died this week at Age of 100 (fwd) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks, Dick, for passing along those links to the group. I knew of Dr. Hell's work through my early background in the printing industry, but for some reason I never suspected that he was the same person associated with the Hellschreiber mode. Nor did I imagine he was still with us until this past week. Would that we all could lead such long and productive lives. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9577 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 18:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 18:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 8479 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 18:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 18:10:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mgUj-0004KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:05 +0000 Received: from mail5.dada.it ([195.110.96.37] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mgUi-0004KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:04 +0000 Received: (qmail 10648 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 18:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.21) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 18:00:53 -0000 Message-ID: <000401c1cddd$8fa4e720$15666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:58:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Paul Following the Mesny's expression for proximity effect we have: D/d q 1 3.5 1.5 2.48 2 2 3 1.5 4 1.28 5 1.19 6 1.12 7 1.07 8 1.03 =>9 1 Where D is the distance between centre of wires, d is the diameter of the wire and q is a factor to be inserted in the following expression: Reff / Rrf = 1 + (q - 1) * SQR (( p - 1 ) / p ) Where Rrf is the RF resistance of a single wire and p is = Rrf / Rdc Reff is the effective resistance due to proximity effect and Rdc is the d.c. resistance of the wire. Hope that will help you, 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC WW-Loc JN53PS e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Paul A. Cianciolo A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org ; Lowfer@mailman.Qth.Net Data: domenica 17 marzo 2002 17.13 Oggetto: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac >Hello Folks > >After researching the construction of Litz wire (Thanks John Sexton, Bill A >and many others) and speaking to a few wire manufactures, I feel I >understand better the complex weaving that is needed to make Rac of this >wire close to the Rdc. > >A loop using single turn of 100 pair telephone cable was in the planning >stages. > >So now after opening up a few types of telephone, 100 pairs/#24 and 25 >pairs/24 cat 5 wire, >none of these are designed with the same weaving as the litz wire. They are >designed for low crosstalk between conductors and >immunity to outside interference. > >So here is the question.... The proximity effect! > >Where can I acquire data about the distance needed between conductors to >avoid this effect? > >For instance.. I have lots of Belden 9555 which is dual RG59 LAN cable. >>From a 1000' roll >I could acquire 10 200' runs that could be spaced at some distance and put >in parallel. > >This would bring the Rdc of the loop down to .052 Ohm's. I need to get an >idea if the spacing of these 10 conductors >would need to be 1", 5" 10" or more to disregard the proximity effect and >have a very low Rac. > >anyone have any thoughts > > > > >Paulc >W1VLF > > >This Email was brought to you by a completely solar powered home network. > >Cloudbounce Webpage http://www.qsl.net/w1vlf/ >GE Electrak E20 and E15 electric tractors >Air Rifle Target Shooting Enthusiast > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13123 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 16:11:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 16:11:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 5803 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 16:11:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 16:11:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16meix-00046x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:45:39 +0000 Received: from smtp1.snet.net ([204.60.203.69] helo=mta3.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16meiw-00046s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:45:38 +0000 Received: from rescueelect (16.137.252.64.snet.net [64.252.137.16] (may be forged)) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g2HG5joq002458; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:05:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Lowfer@mailman.Qth.Net" Subject: LF: Loop Conductors and proximity effect Rdc Rac Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Folks After researching the construction of Litz wire (Thanks John Sexton, Bill A and many others) and speaking to a few wire manufactures, I feel I understand better the complex weaving that is needed to make Rac of this wire close to the Rdc. A loop using single turn of 100 pair telephone cable was in the planning stages. So now after opening up a few types of telephone, 100 pairs/#24 and 25 pairs/24 cat 5 wire, none of these are designed with the same weaving as the litz wire. They are designed for low crosstalk between conductors and immunity to outside interference. So here is the question.... The proximity effect! Where can I acquire data about the distance needed between conductors to avoid this effect? For instance.. I have lots of Belden 9555 which is dual RG59 LAN cable. >From a 1000' roll I could acquire 10 200' runs that could be spaced at some distance and put in parallel. This would bring the Rdc of the loop down to .052 Ohm's. I need to get an idea if the spacing of these 10 conductors would need to be 1", 5" 10" or more to disregard the proximity effect and have a very low Rac. anyone have any thoughts Paulc W1VLF This Email was brought to you by a completely solar powered home network. Cloudbounce Webpage http://www.qsl.net/w1vlf/ GE Electrak E20 and E15 electric tractors Air Rifle Target Shooting Enthusiast From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6622 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 14:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 14:36:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 27089 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 14:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 14:36:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mdEL-0003we-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:09:57 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mdEK-0003wZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:09:56 +0000 Received: from modem-41.paddle-wrasse.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.45.41] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16mbhP-0007ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:31:52 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c1cdc0$c201d740$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C94898F.3B21C6F0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73 khz Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:33:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: gii3kev Subject: LF: 73 khz > Hi Laurie G3AQC and Co > I heard you this morning on 71.7 khz but due to a computer smpu was > unable to copy properly, about 459 at one stage but your signal also had > qsb. My loop is positioned EW therefore you are in a null. There are > other carriers also around this freq area at my qth but 72. 5 upwards is > totally quiet, had you been in this area I probably would have copied > you well. I am not sure what antenna power you are using at present but > I did expect a S9 or better signal from you. > When I was in GI a while back and listening on 73 khz I could hear G3YXM > and a couple of stations on the South coast quite strong. Maybe you are > qrp at present. > I will listen out this afternoon in case you are about. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > No not QRP !!! about 300mW but no doubt your ant. not orientated correctly. I had good QSO with Dick PA0SE at 10:30 he gave me 5/7/9. I will transmit this afternoon at 1500 on 72.6 kHz hope this freq. clear. Thanks Laurie. for listening. 73 > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13993 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 12:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 12:22:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27488 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 12:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 12:22:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mbA5-0003i1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:57:25 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mbA4-0003hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:57:24 +0000 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-213.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.213] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16mZRC-0004Jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:06:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3C94898F.3B21C6F0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:18:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie G3AQC and Co I heard you this morning on 71.7 khz but due to a computer smpu was unable to copy properly, about 459 at one stage but your signal also had qsb. My loop is positioned EW therefore you are in a null. There are other carriers also around this freq area at my qth but 72. 5 upwards is totally quiet, had you been in this area I probably would have copied you well. I am not sure what antenna power you are using at present but I did expect a S9 or better signal from you. When I was in GI a while back and listening on 73 khz I could hear G3YXM and a couple of stations on the South coast quite strong. Maybe you are qrp at present. I will listen out this afternoon in case you are about. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22602 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 08:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 08:46:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3084 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 08:46:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 08:46:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mXid-0003Mm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:16:51 +0000 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mXic-0003Mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:16:50 +0000 Received: from [62.21.150.230] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16mWBi-00077V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:38:47 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317094156.00a0c070@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:44:33 +0100 To: "LF-Group" From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: LF: Fwd: [Hellschreiber] Dr. Rudolf Hell died this week at Age of 100 (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dr. OM,


This message was passed on to me by PA0KDF.

73, Dick, PA0SE

,

just read this morning with sadness, that
earlier this week Rudolf Hell, the inventor of the
HELLSCHREIBER mode, died in Germany.

Read here for more info:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/020314/obit_hell_1.html

http://www.indianprinterpublisher.com/aug/Hell-birthday.htm

I am sure, not only we as HAMs will remember him for a long time.

73 de
Chris DL4YAO

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27145 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 00:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 00:13:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9401 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2002 00:13:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2002 00:13:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mPj5-0002N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:44:47 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mPj4-0002Mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:44:46 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0GT3002E1A00SM@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:16:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:16:36 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: TX Loop antenna conductors To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <172978.1016320596702.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bill, I find the usual formula for the ratio of Rac/Rdc = d*sqrt(mu*f/rho) very unsatisfactory for small diameters, since as d gets smaller the ratio cannot get less than 1. The same is true for low values of frequency. Instead I use a couple of series approximations to the Bessel functions. So I checked your figures and found for AWG #12 at 185kHz, a ratio of 3.6 and for #8 a ratio of 5.56, quite close but slightly higher than your figures. The point you made is of course why it is better to use properly made Litz wire to keep the advantage of thicker wire. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat Mar 16 12:32:42 PST 2002 Subject: LF: TX Loop antenna conductors >All,> >I get a bit perturbed when I see comparisons of various loop conductors >using Rdc values since the 'skin effect' within the conductors causes the >Rac to be much higher at the frequencies we use. > >To prove the point, I calculated the 'skin effect' of two different loop >conductors. For #12 (2.05mm) at 185k the Rac/Rdc came out to 3 and for #8 >(3.26mm) the Rac/Rdc was 5. Even though the Rdc for #8 is over 2.5 times >lower than #12 for the same length, the Rac is only about 35% lower. This >amounts to a mere 2.6db signal improvement, assuming no soil loss. With >typical soil loss factored in, the signal improvement would be less than 2.2 >db. > >Bill A > >********************************************************************* >This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for >the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus >Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use >local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. >********************************************************************* > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21534 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 23:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 23:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 8505 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 23:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 23:55:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mPRn-0002KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:26:55 +0000 Received: from mail2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mPRm-0002KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:26:54 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d23.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.222]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2GNj4R65272 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:45:04 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: TX Loop antenna conductors Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:46:35 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: So don't waste your money on #8 wire when the #12 is slightly lossier and a heck of a lot cheaper. Now if you have really big thousand+ strand Litz wire, then go with that. Am I right on this Bill??? Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Ashlock,William Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 2:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TX Loop antenna conductors All, I get a bit perturbed when I see comparisons of various loop conductors using Rdc values since the 'skin effect' within the conductors causes the Rac to be much higher at the frequencies we use. To prove the point, I calculated the 'skin effect' of two different loop conductors. For #12 (2.05mm) at 185k the Rac/Rdc came out to 3 and for #8 (3.26mm) the Rac/Rdc was 5. Even though the Rdc for #8 is over 2.5 times lower than #12 for the same length, the Rac is only about 35% lower. This amounts to a mere 2.6db signal improvement, assuming no soil loss. With typical soil loss factored in, the signal improvement would be less than 2.2 db. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29018 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 23:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 23:06:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6559 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 23:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 23:06:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOgT-0002D7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:38:01 +0000 Received: from wb2-a.mail.utexas.edu ([128.83.126.136] helo=mail.utexas.edu) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOgS-0002CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:38:00 +0000 Received: (qmail 5213 invoked by uid 0); 16 Mar 2002 22:55:55 -0000 Received: from dial-97-9.ots.utexas.edu (HELO localhost) (128.83.249.105) by umbs-smtp-2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 22:55:55 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:55 -0600 Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM's Hell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 From: georgius@mail.utexas.edu To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311182243.00b1d8c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1D076048-3931-11D6-B1AC-0005020969A5@mail.utexas.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.481) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats to Markus and Jim to their Hell-contact. I received the news here in Austin, TX (sri, no LF-equipment, Markus, you know). 73 to All Walter DJ2LF On Monday, March 11, 2002, at 12:27 PM, James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > I had a 136kHz contact with DF6NM on Saturday evening, with good copy > of both DFCW and Hell modes from Markus (see attachment). I wonder if > DF8ZR had any luck with his receiver? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12209 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 22:54:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 22:54:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 27811 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 22:54:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 22:54:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOUR-0002Ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:25:35 +0000 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it ident=rmmail) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOUP-0002AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:25:34 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia30.phoenix.it [213.82.97.94]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g2GMhjb10103 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:43:45 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01c19cd0$554b1880$5e6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Best receiver for LF. Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:51:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thank for all the station that has answered me with private e-mail for my question on best LF receiver.
I have bought last week end at ham fest here an EDK300 by RFT, is a very good receiver tunable from 14 Khz to 30 Mhz, very very good stability from an OCXO at 10 Mhz, but not better than my IC775, the Icom have a better phase noise becouse its use the DDS, in EDK, the design is like Racal little older, so PLL from late 80 is little noisy.
Also i have bought a W&G SPM-12, and also this unit is very well working on LF, so at the end, after many test, not big difference from all the equipment, also the W&G, with the 25 Hz filter is very good in QRSS (but not good stability, the OL is not phase loocked).
The last is my IC 738 with an external DBM Mini Circuit mixer and preselector, not worse, not better than all the other here, with my short antenna, may be that in Mantova with big antenna the history may be different!!
So, after this test, i dont know if is really good buy a receiver designed for LF, when a good HF radio with external converter do the same job!!
But is also the spirit of our hobby testing all the equipment, for find the better solution at less price.
73 to all IK2DED Giulio.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22056 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 22:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 22:38:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 18946 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 22:38:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 22:38:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOC4-00028M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:06:36 +0000 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it ident=rmmail) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mOC3-00027s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:06:35 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia30.phoenix.it [213.82.97.94]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g2GMOkb05650 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:24:46 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c19ccd$ad9f1fc0$5e6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: New Italian station on LF. Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:32:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Worked this afternoon in QRSS 3 the station IK4JSJ from Imola, signal was not strong, but was the first test and qso on 137 for this new station.
Listen this morning at 10.45 z G3AQC very well in aural cw, while him was working EI3IRZ, from my tower in Mantova.
73 Giulio IK2DED.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25409 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 21:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 21:33:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8926 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 21:33:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 21:33:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mNBf-0001ue-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:02:07 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mNBf-0001sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:02:07 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-102.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.102] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16mLPE-0006xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3C938D2F.DD0387EA@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:21:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: dx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dx and other acty thin on the ground today. 73 khz the band for information and education nil !! surprised how the band ever got a 2 year extension !! is there some secret develepoment going on that the rest of do not know about A couple of EU stns active earlier on 136 khz. HF contest going on today and 10 m wide open world wide with some really big signals ZL/VK/KH6/W6 etc G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11322 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 21:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 21:32:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8732 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 21:32:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 21:32:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mNBj-0001uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:02:11 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mNBj-0001sr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:02:11 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-102.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.102] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16mLPI-0006xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3C9390E2.52F77ABD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:37:22 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Almost 200 messages so far addressed to me about loop experiments , most are private and what interest fromVK, W, ZL and other places in between and around EU, not heard much from Africa. Some want information, others are offering advice, this experiment could become a full time job!! Lots of information also supplied would indicate that a proper engineered vertical of modest size outperforms a loop of the size that the average amateur could install for Transmitting. Its a long story, but generally speaking loops are great for Receiving, bearing in mind the bi-directional limitation and verticals excellent for both TX/RX but could be noisy if one lives in a hostile electrical environment. Install whatever suits you environment best. I am happy with my vertical and the loop as a spare RX antenna resonated with an ATU for both 73 and 136 khz, but could be modified for other allocations as per ZL and the USA if anyone wants to transmit. I will be looking out for the ZL6 tests soon, if anyone in the USA/Canada is able to TX, I will also watch out. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12277 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 20:51:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 20:51:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23248 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 20:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 20:51:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mMZq-0001nN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:23:02 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mMZp-0001mM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:23:01 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17668 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 20:41:13 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-20.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 20:41:13 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:49:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TX Loop antenna conductors Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:32:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: All, I get a bit perturbed when I see comparisons of various loop conductors using Rdc values since the 'skin effect' within the conductors causes the Rac to be much higher at the frequencies we use. To prove the point, I calculated the 'skin effect' of two different loop conductors. For #12 (2.05mm) at 185k the Rac/Rdc came out to 3 and for #8 (3.26mm) the Rac/Rdc was 5. Even though the Rdc for #8 is over 2.5 times lower than #12 for the same length, the Rac is only about 35% lower. This amounts to a mere 2.6db signal improvement, assuming no soil loss. With typical soil loss factored in, the signal improvement would be less than 2.2 db. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3555 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 19:55:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 19:55:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 2532 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 19:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 19:55:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mLgm-0001dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:26:08 +0000 Received: from mail7.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.206]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mLgl-0001dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:26:07 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d32.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.231]) by mail7.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2GLowI30316; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:50:58 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Lowfer/Hifer Reflector" Subject: LF: Question on Terman book findings??? Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:45:48 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: High Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What year of publication of the book Terman "Measurements in Radio Engineering" do I want to buy??? I see many different years of publication and am confused as to what are the best years to get. Thanks, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17605 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 18:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 18:36:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 23234 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 18:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 18:36:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mKOt-0001Ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:03:35 +0000 Received: from imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.180]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mKOr-0001Sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:03:34 +0000 Received: from modem-76.azaghal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.131.204] helo=g3aqc) by imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16mIo6-00041u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:21:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c1cd17$ab88dda0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C930B2A.A30948B7@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020316161818.00a0c460@POP3.freeler.nl> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73 khz Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:22:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
----- Original Message -----
 
Are these times UTC?

73, Dick, PA0SE
 
Yes they are. Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7014 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 15:23:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12565 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 15:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 15:23:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mHQz-00019y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:53:33 +0000 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mHQy-00019t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:53:32 +0000 Received: from [62.21.146.59] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16mFu4-0004gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:15:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020316161818.00a0c460@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:20:37 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73 khz In-reply-to: <000701c1ccf0$8dafa380$05e9fea9@g3aqc> References: <3C930B2A.A30948B7@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

Laurie wrote:

I will be very pleased to transmit on 73 this evening and/or tomorrow
morning.
I agree that we should use the remaining time effectively and have been
trying to do just that for some time now.
I will transmit on 71.70 +/- and listen on 136.5 +/-
Should be able to get set up by  1830, so will call on the half
hour.Tomorrow will start at 0930 for an hour or two. Looking foreward to
several contacts, I can also listen on 73 ,but not at the same time Hi.
73s Laurie.

Are these times UTC?

73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 958 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 13:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 13:45:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 29331 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 13:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 13:45:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mFy5-00010V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:19:37 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mFy4-00010Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:19:36 +0000 Received: from modem-82.naso-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.41.82] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16mER8-0004oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:41:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c1ccf0$8dafa380$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C930B2A.A30948B7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73 khz Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:40:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: gii3kev Subject: LF: 73 khz > If anyone would like to TX on 73 khz over the weekend I will listen and > work xband 136 khz. I want to try the loop out on 73 khz. I have built > an atu that resonates the loop both on 136 and 73 khz. If there was a > rush of acty on 73 khz then I would also arrange to TX as well on the > vertical. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV I will be very pleased to transmit on 73 this evening and/or tomorrow morning. I agree that we should use the remaining time effectively and have been trying to do just that for some time now. I will transmit on 71.70 +/- and listen on 136.5 +/- Should be able to get set up by 1830, so will call on the half hour.Tomorrow will start at 0930 for an hour or two. Looking foreward to several contacts, I can also listen on 73 ,but not at the same time Hi. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21506 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 12:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 12:19:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27300 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 12:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 12:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mEck-0000qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:53:30 +0000 Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mEcj-0000qW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:53:29 +0000 Received: from roy ([80.1.7.203]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020316121526.ZSF23632.mta2-svc.virgin.net@roy> for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:15:26 +0000 Message-ID: <008101c1cce4$5fd6b180$cb070150@roy> From: "HighGain" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> Subject: LF: Fwd: HAARP... Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:16:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The HAARP project in Alaska will be performing their VLF injection campaign from March 15-28th. Transmissions will be on frequencies around 3200, 3300, and 5800 kHz. Transmissions will start at 1900 Alaska time (0400 UTC) and lasting about 10 hours. What kind of signals to look out for: 3.2 MHz: 12.5 Hz on/off keying 50 % duty cycle 3.3 MHz and 5.8 MHz: sinusoidal modulation with the following frequencies; 1225 Hz, 1875 Hz, 2125 Hz, 2375 Hz, 3365 Hz. At these two frequencies, there will also be chirp transmissions. The HAARP website is: http://server5550.itd.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/ Regards & Best Wishes Roy MM0LOS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7373 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 09:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 09:44:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21529 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 09:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 09:44:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mC9p-0000Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:15:29 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mC9o-0000Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:15:28 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-118.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16mAR1-0001Te-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:25:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3C930F4C.E1B9415C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:24:28 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: loops References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315154947.00ad4900@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Mal, LF group > > A couple of suggestions to try with your loop: > > > Hello Jim and some observations on your comments. > > This is not surprising in a quiet location, since the band noise will > define the SNR with any reasonable antenna - but the really interesting > experiment to try would be to compare efficiencies using the strength of > received signals, first with the loop, and second with the same antenna set > up as a vertical, ie. with one vertical leg and the bottom leg removed. The > vertical could be tuned with a small loading coil for receive only, wound > on a pot core for example. DCF39 could be used as a reference signal, and > your SPM12 would be ideal for comparing the sig levels. I could try this, but this antenna is not too far away from the main vertical and there could be interaction especially with the ground radial system near by. It might not be a good assessment. There is already some interaction between the loop and vertical. > > > . > > -But you could try some QRP tests without going to all the trouble of the > full power version. There would be just as much trouble on QRP building another atu for a one off job, that would also be a backward step, knowing it would never perform anything like the vertical. I should really be spending more time on improving the vertical ground radial system. > Wonder Jim if you could put out a signal on 73 khz and work xband 136 > sometime today so that I can try the loop for reception. Tnx de Mal/G3KEV > > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1446 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 09:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 09:44:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8706 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2002 09:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2002 09:44:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mC9l-0000Zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:15:25 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16mC9j-0000Zm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:15:23 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-118.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16mAQx-0001TX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:25:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3C930B2A.A30948B7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:06:50 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If anyone would like to TX on 73 khz over the weekend I will listen and work xband 136 khz. I want to try the loop out on 73 khz. I have built an atu that resonates the loop both on 136 and 73 khz. If there was a rush of acty on 73 khz then I would also arrange to TX as well on the vertical. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17070 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 23:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 23:07:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 24441 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 23:07:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 23:07:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16m2Bz-000866-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:37:03 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16m2By-000861-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:37:03 +0000 Received: from host62-7-33-151.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.33.151] helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16m0f5-0004pI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:59:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c1cc74$fa9620e0$9721073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Loop and inverted L aerials Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:24:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, this is an interesting discussion.....I don't how pertinent this is but I have been trying a few 'rear of envelope' calculations. Using Dave G3YMCs figures for dynamic resistance and and assuming it increases linearly with increasing loop periphery, I worked out the efficency of several loop sizes. Then I calculated the efficiency of an L, which could be errected in the same space (2 sides of the loop), assuming a ground loss of about 60 ohms. The crossover point came with a loop of about 110m by 10m, assuming only a 10m height. I calculate that as the radiation resistance increases rapidly with height in vertical , Mal would probably have to put up 30m by 90m loop to compare with his vertical (which I calculate at about 0.6 ohms Rrad) This is rather over-simplified as it does not allow for the reduction in loss resistance as the L increases in length I will put the formula into a EXCEL spread-sheet and make it available on my web site http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk look in the useful programs (?) area One area where the loop might help is in 'static' conditions. The loop will receive the EM waves from lightning flashes but it should not collect the local voltages that a vertical does. There has been quite a bit done with QRP in Eupope and 1w to an average aerial does not get you very far on hand keyed morse, particularly in daytime. G6RO has used a 5 watt rig quite a lot as did Steve GW4ALG before he left the band. Their best DX was about 300 miles with a following wind. Geri DK8KW could also relate the experiences of the German stations who were limited to 20w output. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6089 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 22:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 22:05:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11638 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 22:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 22:05:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16m1GL-0007ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:37:29 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16m1GK-0007uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:37:28 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.39.192]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020315215924.FRCS26019.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:59:24 +0100 Message-ID: <00de01c1cc6c$d092cb20$c02765d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> <3C91F52E.8EA7B843@snet.net> <3C921829.BABF01F@usa.net> <3C9226F6.54590B73@snet.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:59:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi I have a Shera style GPS box and I agree with Jay. My RX is GPS locked and I would love to be able to lock Argo etc. to GPS too. An alternative is to use an external A/D converter clocked by the freq. standard but many modern PCs doesn't have a serial "COM" port and USB is a little bit too complicated for homebrewing. (Well, www.ftdichip.com might do the trick...) 73 de Johan SM6LKM Jay Rusgrove wrote: > A better solution would be using the spare audio channel to insert a > reference signal, again, if you could implement it. > Thanks again for the great software! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 992 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 18:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 18:47:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27319 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 18:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 18:47:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lyEA-0007aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:23:02 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lyE9-0007a7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:23:01 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-152.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.152] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16lwVM-0002m7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:32:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3C9240F7.8A2B0EC6@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:44:08 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I occassionally listen on 73 khz and never hear a soul. Is there anyone still active on the band. At this QTH the band is noise free, no loran etc, the same at my GI QTH, far away from the South coast loran qrm. Considering there is only 1 year left for UK amateurs to experiment I am surprised there has not been an upsurge, its the opposite. Its a pity the band was not allocated to the EU community, where there seems to be more enthusasism. I call/listen nearly every day on 136 khz and generally work a few EU stns, but seldom hear any UK acty. I can copy all modes but normally work CW or QRSCW. When the band mode was normal CW or QRS there seemed to be a lot of acty, but now the odd bit of acty consists of splinter acty 1 jason, 1 on hell, 1 on measles 1 on QRS all calling CQ and little QSO acty, maybe the odd time, not to mention the odd psk31 or other versions. A number of would be LF participants that have contacted me are only interested in CW, certainly as beginners, but there is not the acty to encourage them to the band. I am also surprised at the lack of interest throughout EU, no new countries this past year or so. Room for thought. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29848 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 17:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 17:56:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 11433 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 17:56:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 17:56:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lxJb-0007Ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:24:35 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lxJX-0007Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:24:31 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-144.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.144] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16lvmf-00039w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:29 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c1cc49$5cfabe20$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: loops Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike said.. > This way you won't have to use any Wahoo > sized components HOW big?? I'd sure like to get hold of some of those... Dave 'YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7874 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 17:12:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 17:12:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29244 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 17:12:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 17:12:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lwgp-0007Jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:44:31 +0000 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.202]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lwgo-0007Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:44:30 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d32.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.231]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2FH6Ou22691 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:06:25 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: loops Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:07:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315154947.00ad4900@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What the heck, go with a 1w signal like the US guys use. You will be surprised as to how many stations you can still work if they have a decent receiver and antenna on their end. This way you won't have to use any Wahoo sized components in your matching box. I think that I can safely say that we are all waiting patiently to hear your results with a decent sized loop like you put up. 73's es gud luk, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:22 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: loops Dear Mal, LF group Transmitting... -But you could try some QRP tests without going to all the trouble of the full power version. If you really do not want to transmit at all, measuring the impedance (particularly the resistive component) of the tuned loop with a bridge would be a very interesting result, especially if it was done at several different frequencies. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10905 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 16:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 16:51:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10662 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 16:51:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 16:51:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lwNW-0007Dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:24:34 +0000 Received: from mta3.snet.net ([204.60.203.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lwNU-0007Dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:24:33 +0000 Received: from snet.net (nwhn-sh22-port79.snet.net [204.60.247.79]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with ESMTP id g2FGj0op000671 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:45:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C9226F6.54590B73@snet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:53:10 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> <3C91F52E.8EA7B843@snet.net> <3C921829.BABF01F@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto Thank you for getting back to me. I think the Argo "I know that this frequency is xxxx Hz, do your math" .... would be a good solution if you can implement it. A better solution would be using the spare audio channel to insert a reference signal, again, if you could implement it. There is no doubt that future leaps in software improvements will require locking your receiving setup to GPS, Loran or other source. The equipment to do this is becoming more reasonably priced - GPS boxes are available all the time now on ebay! The 10 MHz output (suitably divided down) or the 1 pps perhaps could be used for the reference. This would result in a completely locked system with both the receiver and sound card locked to the precision reference. If you do take a look at this, it would be nice to implement this in Argo, also. Assuming all this is possible... Thanks again for the great software! Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Alberto di Bene wrote: > Jay Rusgrove wrote: > > > Now to my question. What is used as the reference frequency for the BFO and can > > it be tweaked? I notice that with my GPS referenced receivers a known frequency > > output makes the phase meter rotate about 1 revolution every 4 seconds or so. > > Is there a way to tweak the frequency right on as in Argo? > > Jay and the group, > thanks for your nice words. > What is used as the reference frequency for the BFO ?? Guess what ? > The sampling frequency of the sound card.... which generally is derived from > a cheap quartz crystal... the BFO is implemented as a dual-output NCO, > producing quadrature signals for the half-complex mixers. The rate of updating > of the phase accumulator for the NCO is directly derived from the rate of > the callbacks from the MME subsystem of Windows, which in turn depends > on the hardware interrupts generated from the sound card. > So I cannot see any possibility to tweak it in hardware. > A software possibility could be to use the right channel of the Line In > (the mono input signal is on the left), to input a precise reference, > from which the software could somehow derive a correction factor... > > Or, as in Argo, you could tell to the program "I know that this frequency is > xxxx Hz, do your math" .... I have to think about this. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11391 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 16:47:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 16:47:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6533 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 16:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 16:47:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lw94-0007Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:09:38 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lw93-0007Bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:09:37 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16luc9-0005RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:31:33 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16luc7-0007Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:31:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315154947.00ad4900@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:21:39 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: loops In-reply-to: <3C921300.3046CA7C@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF group A couple of suggestions to try with your loop: ...My loop parallel resonated on 136 khz gives about the same signal/noise as the vertical, no discernable difference on RX... This is not surprising in a quiet location, since the band noise will define the SNR with any reasonable antenna - but the really interesting experiment to try would be to compare efficiencies using the strength of received signals, first with the loop, and second with the same antenna set up as a vertical, ie. with one vertical leg and the bottom leg removed. The vertical could be tuned with a small loading coil for receive only, wound on a pot core for example. DCF39 could be used as a reference signal, and your SPM12 would be ideal for comparing the sig levels. ...If I had a truck load of high grade components, megawatt rated insulators, capacitors and toroids I would be tempted to try Transmitting... -But you could try some QRP tests without going to all the trouble of the full power version. If you really do not want to transmit at all, measuring the impedance (particularly the resistive component) of the tuned loop with a bridge would be a very interesting result, especially if it was done at several different frequencies. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14726 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 15:54:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 15:54:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5076 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 15:54:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 15:54:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lvV9-00073r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:28:23 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lvV8-00073m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:28:22 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.194.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA76810 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:46:58 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2FFoFo48340 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:50:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3C921829.BABF01F@usa.net> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:50:01 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> <3C91F52E.8EA7B843@snet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jay Rusgrove wrote: > Now to my question. What is used as the reference frequency for the BFO and can > it be tweaked? I notice that with my GPS referenced receivers a known frequency > output makes the phase meter rotate about 1 revolution every 4 seconds or so. > Is there a way to tweak the frequency right on as in Argo? Jay and the group, thanks for your nice words. What is used as the reference frequency for the BFO ?? Guess what ? The sampling frequency of the sound card.... which generally is derived from a cheap quartz crystal... the BFO is implemented as a dual-output NCO, producing quadrature signals for the half-complex mixers. The rate of updating of the phase accumulator for the NCO is directly derived from the rate of the callbacks from the MME subsystem of Windows, which in turn depends on the hardware interrupts generated from the sound card. So I cannot see any possibility to tweak it in hardware. A software possibility could be to use the right channel of the Line In (the mono input signal is on the left), to input a precise reference, from which the software could somehow derive a correction factor... Or, as in Argo, you could tell to the program "I know that this frequency is xxxx Hz, do your math" .... I have to think about this. Thanks for the feedback. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 189 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 15:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 15:36:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18261 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 15:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 15:36:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lvA8-0006zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:06:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lvA6-0006zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:06:38 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-27.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.27] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16ltRI-0003az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:16:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3C921300.3046CA7C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:28:00 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Having looked in a couple of web sites and spoken to an experienced 136 khz loop designer/builder in Belgium the conclusion seems to be that the sort of loop size used in Europe/UK in the large loop category does not perform as well as a modest vertical system on TX and are only used by those that do not have sufficient space for a vertical plus radials, experimenters or those that have very high ground losses and anything is worth trying to put out a LF signal. On RX the loop performs well in the desired direction of interest (bi-directional) and is useful to those that have a noisy environment where you can null out the offending noise. In my case I live out in the country, where there are no overhead power lines or lines of any sort for miles, all services in this area are underground, therefore my vertical both on RX and TX gives excellent results, with numerous reports confirmed across the Atlantic on 136 khz, so I am able to compare the two systems, loop v vertical. My loop parallel resonated on 136 khz gives about the same signal/noise as the vertical, no discernable difference on RX. I have not tried it on TX but according to others that have both loops and verticals say that the vertical is superior every time. They cannot all be wrong With this information to hand it would be pointless with my loop 4960 sq feet trying to achieve the same results as my 120 feet vertical supporting 4 x inv L antennas. Someone else reporting here on email has already said Marconi got it right first time hi To try and get 1W erp from a loop would be a problem on the components side, a vertical is bad enough. Low power experiments like across in the USA where 1W to the antenna is the limit is a totally different story. Some might not realise that to get 1W erp from a loop requires K/watts of RF across the loop feed point. To achieve long haul results on LF one has to aim for the max permitted power and an efficient vertical antenna. I have worked several stations this past few years transmitting on loops but it has always been a struggle to hear them even at my quiet QTH, some subsequently switched to verticals and that made a tremendous difference. My loop exercise has been interesting and I now have a spare RX antenna suitably resonated for both 136 and 73 khz. bearing in mind the bi-directional limitations. It radiates E/W. If I had a truck load of high grade components, megawatt rated insulators, capacitors and toroids I would be tempted to try Transmitting. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18693 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 14:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 14:57:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5333 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 14:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 14:57:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16luaY-0006sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:29:54 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr ([195.170.0.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16luaW-0006sg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:29:53 +0000 Received: from otenet.gr (myti530-a020.otenet.gr [212.205.251.148]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g2FEpMYZ006538 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:51:47 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3C9102AF.A7A8150@otenet.gr> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:06:07 +0000 From: "Alex Deligiannis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,el MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto nice software I head clearly the Alpha transmitions as well all the FSK signals just puting the pre amplified antenna at the Lin Input. If you put a spectrum display and a decoder will be a very good software receiver. Thank uoy for the pleasant hours I had testing it. 73's Alex SV8QG Alberto di Bene wrote: > If you have downloaded PHD Radio 0.90, please download 0.91 > V 0.90 has been removed from the Web site.It contained a couple > of bugs, introduced during some experiments performed just minutes > before uploading it. Then I forgot to undo the changes done for the tests... > > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_091.exe > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9489 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 14:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 14:11:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14725 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 14:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 14:11:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lt3w-0006dL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:52:08 +0000 Received: from mta3.snet.net ([204.60.203.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lt3v-0006dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:52:07 +0000 Received: from snet.net ([204.60.216.252]) by mta3.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with ESMTP id g2FDCaop016131 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:12:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C91F52E.8EA7B843@snet.net> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:20:46 -0500 From: "Jay Rusgrove" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto Thanks for another great piece of software. Only had a chance to give it a quick try, but it looks like it has great potential! Now to my question. What is used as the reference frequency for the BFO and can it be tweaked? I notice that with my GPS referenced receivers a known frequency output makes the phase meter rotate about 1 revolution every 4 seconds or so. Is there a way to tweak the frequency right on as in Argo? Thanks for any info you can provide. Jay Rusgrove, W1VD Alberto di Bene wrote: > If you have downloaded PHD Radio 0.90, please download 0.91 > V 0.90 has been removed from the Web site.It contained a couple > of bugs, introduced during some experiments performed just minutes > before uploading it. Then I forgot to undo the changes done for the tests... > > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_091.exe > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24673 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 03:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 03:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 12039 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2002 03:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2002 03:14:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ljaf-0005XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:45:17 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-132.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132] helo=mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ljad-0005X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:45:15 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.178.10]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020315030638.LZSK14382.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:06:38 +1300 Message-ID: <000401c1cbce$a6b0f140$0ab21bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> Subject: LF: ZL6QH tests 23 March Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:07:21 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL6QH TESTING 23 MARCH ZL6QH will be transmitting on 23 March for all hours of local darkness. ZL2 sunset is nominally 0628 UTC, and sunrise nominally 1831 UTC (more details in the list at the end of the notice). Dual frequency keying will be used, with 120 second dots, with 0.4 Hz and sending QQQQQQ. as hi, hi, lo, hi, gap. One Q takes 10 minutes. hi = 137.7890 kHz lo = 137.7886 kHz Each Q will start on the hour and be maintained close to 10 minute multiples throughout each hour, so absolute timing may be useful for analysis of difficult reception situations. SUNRISE AND SUNSET TIMES (UTC) DX stations can decide on their best times for monitoring. The following list is a sequence of sunrise and sunset times for 23 March, for various countries, by call sign prefix : I sunrise 0508 UTC DL sunrise 0530 UTC F sunrise 0548 UTC G sunrise 0601 UTC EA sunrise 0613 UTC GM sunrise 0614 UTC IE sunrise 0623 UTC ZL2 sunset 0628 UTC VE1 sunrise 1012 UTC W4 sunrise 1136 UTC W6 sunrise 1359 UTC VE7 sunrise 1410 UTC KH6 sunrise 1630 UTC I sunset 1711 UTC DL sunset 1733 UTC F sunset 1752 UTC G sunset 1806 UTC EA sunset 1816 UTC GM sunset 1819 UTC EI sunset 1827 UTC ZL2 sunrise 1831 UTC It would seem that European listeners miss out on dark paths with ZL before their sunrise, but there are dark paths at and after European dusk. Reception reports can be emailed to vernall@xtra.co.nz or posted to the reflector. Good luck to all prospective listeners. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12386 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 14:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 14:02:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15536 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 14:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 14:02:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lXGZ-0003s0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:35:43 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lXGX-0003rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:35:42 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.194.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22574; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2EDvBn59952; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:57:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3C90AC2B.898F7C6@usa.net> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:56:59 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , lowfer@mailman.qth.net, lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: If you have downloaded PHD Radio... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If you have downloaded PHD Radio 0.90, please download 0.91 V 0.90 has been removed from the Web site.It contained a couple of bugs, introduced during some experiments performed just minutes before uploading it. Then I forgot to undo the changes done for the tests... http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_091.exe Sorry for the inconvenience. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25275 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 11:27:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 11:27:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3895 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lUl6-0003SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:55:04 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lUl5-0003SG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:55:03 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16lTEA-0005p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:16:58 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16lTE9-0006hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:16:57 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314110200.00ac81a8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:55 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse In-reply-to: <3C8F5B55.B8F16F2F@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:59 13/03/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Many LF enthusiasts have a Selective Level Meter, generally >made by Wandel & Golterman... Dear Alberto, LF group, I briefly tested your PHD radio software last night with my SPM19 - so far it is working fine, after suitable adjustment of the "volume control" mic input settings. Will investigate further when time permits. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23349 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 19:21:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 19:21:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3069 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 19:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 19:21:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lFl7-0001dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:54:05 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lFl6-0001dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:54:04 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 28263 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 19:15:51 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-6.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 19:15:51 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:23:40 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: loop/update Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:07:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave I agree with all you have said to this point: >Earth losses are immaterial and the loop does NOT need to be kept away from ground or >other lossy things. This was my first series of loop tests because a lower leg running on the ground (or even under) sure simplies the design. My tests indicated that if the total conductor loss is as low as 0.8 ohms Rac you will definately see major losses as you reduce the earth spacing below 5ft. Possibly your soil conductivity is less than mine and your loop conductors have a high Rac, but I will bet the losses for the damp rich soil in the middle US farmland will have a much more pronounced effect at close spacing than mine. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29225 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 24835 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 19:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 19:08:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lFas-0001aK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:43:30 +0000 Received: from fep01-0.kolumbus.fi ([193.229.0.41] helo=fep01-app.kolumbus.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lFaq-0001aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:43:29 +0000 Received: from merocomp ([62.248.136.174]) by fep01-app.kolumbus.fi with SMTP id <20020313190526.EXQJ20888.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@merocomp> for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:05:26 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c1cac2$140dcf00$1c076c0a@arenanet.fi> From: "Matti Niemela" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C8F5B55.B8F16F2F@usa.net> <000701c1cabb$735db260$1c076c0a@arenanet.fi> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:05:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry Wandel&Goltermann! SPM19 is W&G of course and not R&S. 73 de Matti OH2ZT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matti Niemela" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:18 PM Subject: LF: Re: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse > Thank You Alberto for nice PHD Radio-program. It works great with my R&S > SPM19 level meter. The sound quality is surprising good. The one second > delay is not a problem. > > 73 de Matti/OH2ZT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alberto di Bene" > To: "LF Mailing List" > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:59 PM > Subject: LF: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse > > > > Many LF enthusiasts have a Selective Level Meter, generally > > made by Wandel & Golterman. Some of these units have a > > demodulated output, others don't, instead providing a last > > IF output at 10 kHz on the rear panel. > > > > For this last kind of equipment I have written a sort of last IF > > stage in software, which accepts as input a frequency between > > 40 and 20000 Hz, and extracts the AM, USB or LSB modulation > > it may have, playing it through the PC sound card. > > > > The program sports also a graphical Phase Meter, which works > > only when AM is selected, and measures the incoming carrier > > phase referred to the program 'BFO' phase. It can be used for > > a very superfine tuning. A frequency difference of 1 Hz between > > the incoming signal and the BFO produces a whole revolution > > every second, so frequency differences of 10 mHz are easily > > appreciated. > > > > The program does not touch the audio mixer, so it's up to the user > > to set it correctly. Basically you have to set the Recording panel > > so that only Line In is selected, and the Playback panel so that > > only Wave is selected. Make sure that Line In is *deselected* > > for Playback. > > Of course you will have to connect the 10 kHz output of your > > Selective Level Meter to the Line In of the sound card. > > > > The program has a very serious problem, as the played audio lags > > the input by almost a second, so tuning is quite difficult. > > This is due to the processing of the signal, and to the MME system > > of Windows. There are ways to improve this, and maybe I will > > pursue this, depending on my spare time and the acceptance > > of the program. > > > > Bear in mind that this is just a first cut, more an alpha version than > > a beta, so do not have excessive expectations.... I wrote it more > > as an exercise, using some routines I had already written for > > the version 0.93 of Jason (to be released). > > Of course any criticism, suggestions, bug reports are welcome. > > > > The program can be downloaded from : > > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_090.exe > > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7463 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 18:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 18:27:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 13907 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 18:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 18:27:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lEr1-0001TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:56:07 +0000 Received: from fep01-0.kolumbus.fi ([193.229.0.41] helo=fep01-app.kolumbus.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lEqz-0001TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:56:05 +0000 Received: from merocomp ([62.248.136.174]) by fep01-app.kolumbus.fi with SMTP id <20020313181759.ESXL20888.fep01-app.kolumbus.fi@merocomp> for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:17:59 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c1cabb$735db260$1c076c0a@arenanet.fi> From: "Matti Niemela" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C8F5B55.B8F16F2F@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:18:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank You Alberto for nice PHD Radio-program. It works great with my R&S SPM19 level meter. The sound quality is surprising good. The one second delay is not a problem. 73 de Matti/OH2ZT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: "LF Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: LF: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse > Many LF enthusiasts have a Selective Level Meter, generally > made by Wandel & Golterman. Some of these units have a > demodulated output, others don't, instead providing a last > IF output at 10 kHz on the rear panel. > > For this last kind of equipment I have written a sort of last IF > stage in software, which accepts as input a frequency between > 40 and 20000 Hz, and extracts the AM, USB or LSB modulation > it may have, playing it through the PC sound card. > > The program sports also a graphical Phase Meter, which works > only when AM is selected, and measures the incoming carrier > phase referred to the program 'BFO' phase. It can be used for > a very superfine tuning. A frequency difference of 1 Hz between > the incoming signal and the BFO produces a whole revolution > every second, so frequency differences of 10 mHz are easily > appreciated. > > The program does not touch the audio mixer, so it's up to the user > to set it correctly. Basically you have to set the Recording panel > so that only Line In is selected, and the Playback panel so that > only Wave is selected. Make sure that Line In is *deselected* > for Playback. > Of course you will have to connect the 10 kHz output of your > Selective Level Meter to the Line In of the sound card. > > The program has a very serious problem, as the played audio lags > the input by almost a second, so tuning is quite difficult. > This is due to the processing of the signal, and to the MME system > of Windows. There are ways to improve this, and maybe I will > pursue this, depending on my spare time and the acceptance > of the program. > > Bear in mind that this is just a first cut, more an alpha version than > a beta, so do not have excessive expectations.... I wrote it more > as an exercise, using some routines I had already written for > the version 0.93 of Jason (to be released). > Of course any criticism, suggestions, bug reports are welcome. > > The program can be downloaded from : > http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_090.exe > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2895 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 17:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 17:35:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9487 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 16:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 16:33:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lDB1-0001Bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:08:39 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lDB0-0001Bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:08:38 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-148.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.148] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16lBSG-0000y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8F7E83.7F760276@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:55 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave/G3YMC my loop configuration is not like yours and is going to have a different feed system, therefore your web site would not be of any interest for my project. I am using parallel capacitor feed at present as a starting point to resonate the loop on 136 khz, and then will get round to transformer matching the loop impedence to my 75 ohm coax and TX/RX. The matching network is at the right bottom corner of the loop and not in the shack. I am experimenting at present to optimise the received signal. The DC resistance of the loop without any attachments is just over 1 ohm for 2.5mm insulated wire, and there is nothing I can do about this except change the wire to heavier guage or use litz. I doubt if the end result makes that much difference and I have to consider the mechanical advantage with 2.5mm wire. The capacity needed to resonate the loop on 136.5 khz approx is 3000 pf at the loop corner. (1500 pf resonates it at the shack end of coax, because of the coax capacity etc, when I setting it up and testing) There could also be an advantage putting some insulated ground radials under the loop. I do not think anyone else around EU has a loop of these dimensions, therefore capacitor and inductor values would be different, plus the location environment is different, and nothing would be gained by trying to copy what someone else is doing. The basic principle for loop design and installation would be similar and thats about it. I was thinking of not using any capacitors at all and trying to use a multi turn loop (turns in series), the same size as the present single loop, turns space to avoid losses and bring the loop natural resonance to 136 khz, and use a heavy duty ferrite transformer for impedance matching to the tx/rx. I hope I do not pull the trees over with the weight !! I want to access loop potential compared to my vertical before I launch into any serious loop business.The vertical is working fb world wide and the loop is just a fun project, and so far on receive it is doing well. When I get everything on the nose all matched both on tx and rx I will publish the results and observations compared to my vertical system. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7434 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 14:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 14:13:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12493 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 14:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 14:05:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lApc-0000nU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:38:24 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16lApb-0000nH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:38:23 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.194.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA60294 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:56:43 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO/VER6.00) with ESMTP id g2DE01W113962 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3C8F5B55.B8F16F2F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:59:49 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Demodulator program for the W & G Pegelmesse Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many LF enthusiasts have a Selective Level Meter, generally made by Wandel & Golterman. Some of these units have a demodulated output, others don't, instead providing a last IF output at 10 kHz on the rear panel. For this last kind of equipment I have written a sort of last IF stage in software, which accepts as input a frequency between 40 and 20000 Hz, and extracts the AM, USB or LSB modulation it may have, playing it through the PC sound card. The program sports also a graphical Phase Meter, which works only when AM is selected, and measures the incoming carrier phase referred to the program 'BFO' phase. It can be used for a very superfine tuning. A frequency difference of 1 Hz between the incoming signal and the BFO produces a whole revolution every second, so frequency differences of 10 mHz are easily appreciated. The program does not touch the audio mixer, so it's up to the user to set it correctly. Basically you have to set the Recording panel so that only Line In is selected, and the Playback panel so that only Wave is selected. Make sure that Line In is *deselected* for Playback. Of course you will have to connect the 10 kHz output of your Selective Level Meter to the Line In of the sound card. The program has a very serious problem, as the played audio lags the input by almost a second, so tuning is quite difficult. This is due to the processing of the signal, and to the MME system of Windows. There are ways to improve this, and maybe I will pursue this, depending on my spare time and the acceptance of the program. Bear in mind that this is just a first cut, more an alpha version than a beta, so do not have excessive expectations.... I wrote it more as an exercise, using some routines I had already written for the version 0.93 of Jason (to be released). Of course any criticism, suggestions, bug reports are welcome. The program can be downloaded from : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/radiopak_090.exe 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6678 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6824 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 13:09:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 13:09:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l99r-0000Yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:51:11 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l99q-0000Yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:51:10 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16l7cy-0003KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:13:08 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16l7cx-0002XG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313113544.00ab42c8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:07:33 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Re Antenna experiments In-reply-to: <5598049.1016018007080.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 03:13 13/03/2002 -0800, you wrote: >BTW I have had some problems with burning at the top of the fibre glass >mast and am wondering whether the filler might be carbon black?? >73, John, G4CNN Dear John, LF Group, I think the carbon is just what is left after the resin bonding the fibreglass has been decomposed by the discharge. I'm sure a chemist could tell you more, but I think it is true that virtually all resins are organic compounds that leave a carbon residue when burned. I have had similar sooty residues after arcing on various types of plastic, as well as fibreglass and wood - usually the discharge leaves an interesting branched pattern of the black residue. The process seems to be a vicious circle - once the residue is formed, it provides a conductive path for the discharge to spread along - much the same as the "tracking" you sometimes get on car engine ignition components. I have actually seen it happening - little white arcs move across the surface of the plastic, leaving a smouldering trail behind them. On my antenna I have largely stopped this happening by fitting "corona rings" - these are just hoops of wire about 100mm in diameter attached, and electrically connected to, wherever the highest field gradients are - the ends, corners, and junctions in the wire normally. They reduce the potential gradient and suppress the discharge. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19120 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 11:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 11:19:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19780 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 11:18:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 11:18:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l8EE-0000LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:51:38 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l8ED-0000LP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:51:37 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0GSW00856SIRDV@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:13:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:13:27 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re Antenna experiments To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5598049.1016018007080.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, Thanks for that clarification. It all helps to understand better what is going on. I found the last bit especially illuminating. Since the first several metres of my antenna are sandwiched between the house and the steeply rising bank, a lot of the antenna can be thought of as being in a hole in the ground. This is probably the reason for the high ground loss. The answer appears to be to get the antenna up and out of this space. I intend to experiment with raising the loading coil as high as is practicable to get the high voltage end and the first few metres of wire further away from the ground. I had previously found that moving the loading coil as far away as possible from surrounding objects considerably reduced the resistance at resonance. At the same time I plan to increase the length of wire in the helix to raise the top capacity while keeping the capacity of the lower part of the antenna as low as possible. The only other alternative is a Transmit Loop, but one step at a time. BTW I have had some problems with burning at the top of the fibre glass mast and am wondering whether the filler might be carbon black?? 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "James Moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue Mar 12 11:31:16 PST 2002 Subject: LF: Re Antenna experiments (LONG...) >Dear John, LF group> >Some comments on John's queries about ERP and measuring antenna efficiency >- if of no interest, please delete now! > >The first thing is to be clear about what is meant by ERP. There are >different ways of expressing it, but what they amount to is that ERP is the >amount of power fed into an ideal reference antenna, in an ideal >environment and at the same distance from the receiver as the actual >antenna, that would produce the same field strength as the actual antenna. >Thus ERP is not really a measurement of power at all, but a measurement of >field strength with the implicit assumption that the field strength is >proportional to the square root of the transmitted power and inversely >proportional to distance. Knowing ERP tells you how strong the received >signal should be at a given distance, which is usually the most important >thing, but is not directly connected with the radiated power, or the >antenna that is radiating. > >The type of reference antenna is purely a matter of convenience - for >instance, an isotropic antenna does not exist, but it is easy to calculate >the field strength it would produce if it did, and therefore EIRP. A good >approximation to a dipole in free space is possible at UHF, and is a >convenient standard antenna, but of course at LF you can never get far >enough from the ground to get the same behaviour as in free space, even if >you could somehow put up the dipole. Nonetheless, you can still easily >calculate the power you would need to feed in to an orbiting LF dipole, to >get the same field strength in your fictional space ship 1 mile away, as >you are measuring while standing on the ground 1 mile from a real >transmitting antenna, and this would be the ERP (EDRP) of that particular >signal. This is relevant to us because the UK amateur radio regulations >define maximum power output on LF as ERP specifically with reference to a >dipole. A short, ideal monopole over a perfect ground plane is probably >the most practical LF reference antenna - it does not exist either, but at >least over a limited range of distances, a very efficient, well sited >vertical ant produces something close to the same field strength and >directional pattern as the theoretical monopole would. Once again, the >important thing is that it is easy to calculate what field strength would >be produced by the theoretical reference antenna. > >For an isotropic antenna it is easy to work out the relation between >radiated power, distance, and field strength, since the power density is >uniform and independent of direction. The same amount of power applied to >an ideal dipole in free space would produce a greater field strength >because the dipole has directive gain; the ERP is defined in terms of field >strength produced in the direction of maximum radiation. It is quite >complicated to calculate the directivity of an antenna, but you can find >the details in any antenna theory text, and the directivity of a dipole is >about 1.67, whilst by definition directivity of an isotropic antenna is 1. >So for a given power, the dipole will give 1.67 times the power density, or >sqrt(1.67) times the E field strength. Or, for the same field strength, the >input power required is 1.67 times less than an isotropic antenna. >similarly, a short monopole with a perfect ground plane has a directivity >of 3. The formulas relating ERP, EIRP, and EMRP to field strength E and >distance r are: > >EIRP = (E*r)^2 /30; E = sqrt(30*EIRP) /r > >ERP = (E*r)^2 /50, =EIRP/1.67 E = 7*sqrt(ERP) /r > >EMRP = (E*r)^2 /90, =EIRP/3; E = sqrt(90*EMRP) /r > >EIRP, ERP, and EMRP therefore differ more or less by the factors John gave, >which are the directivities of the different reference antennas. Once >again, it does not matter whether you use ERP, EIRP, or EMRP provided you >are consistent - since they are just measures of the field strength; >exactly how the field is generated is not important. So the type of >transmitting antenna actually in use, or how efficient it is, is not an issue > >The efficiency of an antenna is a bit harder to define. One definition >would be the ratio of power radiated to total power fed into the antenna. >This is the same as Rrad/(Rloss+Rrad), however while it is fairly easy to >measure Rloss+Rrad, the resistive part of the antenna impedance, it is not >possible to directly determine Rrad. One approach is to calculate Rrad, >using one of the formulas or numerical modelling techniques like NEC. >Calculating Rrad assumes a knowledge of the current distribution in the >antenna, and this depends on many unknowns for typical amateur antennas - >influence of trees, buildings, ground conductivity etc, etc. So in less >than ideal sites, the calculation is at best an approximation. If we assume >that the effective height of John's antenna is about 8m, we can calculate >Rrad = 160*pi^2*(h/lambda)^2, = 21milliohms. > > Another approach is to infer a value of Prad or Rrad by measuring the >field strength and calculating the ERP. To get from this to the actual >power radiated by the antenna, you have to assume a value for the >directivity of the antenna, since the radiated power required to produce >this field strength depends on the directivity. The best assumption for a >tuned vertical antenna is that it has the same directivity as an ideal >monopole - practical experiments show this is fairly close to the truth. If >we then calculate the EMRP (not ERP or EIRP) from the field strength it is >the same as the radiated power from the antenna, Prad. Prad is the power >which we would need to feed into the antenna to get the measured field >strength if the antenna was 100% efficient.The radiation resistance can >then be calculated if the antenna current Iant is known; Rrad = >Prad/Iant^2. Or we could calculate the efficiency directly from the >transmitter power output, Ptx; Efficiency = Prad/Ptx. Then again, if we >know Ptx, Prad, and Rloss, Rrad is very nearly Rloss*Prad / Ptx. So in >John's case, 10uV/m at 63km gives an EMRP using the formula above of 4.4mW, >and the efficiency is 4.4mW / 200W = 0.0022%. Rloss is 93 ohms, so Rrad is >93ohms * 4.4mW/200W = 2milliohms. > >There is usually a difference between Rrad and Prad determined from field >strength measurements, and calculations from antenna geometry.The >difference between the radiated power calculated from what is going in to >the antenna, and that calculated from field strength measurements has been >called "site loss"; the site loss in John's case is about 10dB - quite high >compared to mine of around 3dB, but similar to G3XDV's antenna. Quite what >happens to the missing power is not clear - The argument is clouded also by >the many uncertainties and unknown factors. For example, it is difficult to >find out just how much antenna current is going down a nearby tree, and so >find out what effect that has on radiation. The field strength measurements >I did showed apparently random, but consistent variations of a few decibels >in field strength from one place to another. In my case, with site loss of >only a few dB, so it is hard to know if it is a real effect or not - >although the fact that most people measure lower field strengths than they >expect suggests that it does exist. But the practical upshot is that it all >adds to the difficulty of obtaining high ERP. > >Hope this is helpful and not too long - have now forgotten what I started >out to do! > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10594 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 09:27:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 09:27:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2372 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 09:27:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 09:27:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l6QC-0008Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:55:52 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l6QB-0008UX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:55:51 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2D9HI7b036140 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:17:18 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020313101249.37f71b4e@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:12:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: loop/update In-reply-to: <3C8E3629.6A23AB12@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Inductance measured = 173 uH >Resonant F measured = 3065 khz >DC resistance of loop wire plus coax feed 1.5 ohms. >Loop wire 2.5 mm insulated. >Feed 75 ohm coax, about 150 ft long, loop feed point, bottom right hand >corner. Hi Mal, I don't know if you measured the loop-inductance with or without the coax. But in case you measured with the 75 Ohm coax you'll have to take the coax capacity (typical 67pF/m) into account, unless you matched the loop (R = few Ohm or less) to the 75 Ohm of the cable. If the coax length is short compared to the wavelength (for sure it is at 136kHz) and you have a sufficient mismatch (that's the case if you connect the cable direct to the loop, at 136kHz) then the coax will mainly act as a parallel capacitance. 150 ft (45 m) of 75 Ohm coax represents 3 nF that is in parallel with the loop inductance. You probably have to take that into account when matching the loop. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : Nice to see that some good old thumbrules still work, one of these say that you need +/- 1 wavelength of wire to get a loop resonant. Your loop is 124 x 40 ft, so in total 328 ft (99 m) of wire. Fits very well with a resonance just over 3MHz. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20625 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 09:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 09:06:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28453 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 09:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 09:06:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l6AO-0008Qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:39:32 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l6AJ-0008Qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:39:31 +0000 Received: from host213-1-139-120.btinternet.com ([213.1.139.120] helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16l4dQ-0004bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:01:25 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c1ca6d$f4a0a7e0$788b01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3C8E3629.6A23AB12@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: loop/update Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:55:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC It is good that there are now several on the reflector taking a re-look at loops. However I feel there is far too much 're-inventing the wheel'. There has been much information about loops for some years on my site (http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk/loops.htm), GW4ALGs site (http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/intro.htm) and elsewhere. My site gives a lot of information including loop calculations, theory and practical advice. It seems there may be some on the reflector who have not looked at it. As Bill Ashlock wrote, the dc resistance of Mal's loop at 1.5 ohms is indeed far too high. Similarly the 1 mohm for radiation resistance mentioned by Rik ON7YD is also way too high if conventional loop theory is to be believed. They should both compare them with the information on my site. I, along with GW4ALG, use a totally capacitive network for matching - Steve's is slightly different in that he uses a balanced configuration but also makes the mistake of having the network in the shack rather than at the feedpoint. Neither of us has tried transformer matching, and it remains to be seen if the losses and potential current handling problems are better or worse than our capacitive network. Steve has used his loop at 400W with no problems. But with the values of capacitor required (in my case 22nF and 200nF) mica caps are out, and Philips 376 polypropylene are used The important things for any successful transmitting loop (which I admit I haven't achieved!) are: Use thick wire to keep the dc (and ac) resistance to as low as value as possible. Fractions of an ohm are a ball park figure. Whatever matching method you use, the network must be at the feedpoint so that feeder losses are not in the loop circuit. Earth losses are immaterial and the loop does NOT need to be kept away from ground or other lossy things. Good luck with your loop Mal. ps. I note G4CNN mentions working Dick G3LCB yesterday. Not in fact a new station, but I haven't heard him for many months - and notice that I have never worked him. Was busy on the other computer sorting out Linux at the time so missed him. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11748 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:30:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:30:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1717 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:30:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:30:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l2od-00081T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:04:51 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l2oc-00081O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:04:50 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 23093 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:26:47 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-14.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:26:47 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loop/update Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:18:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >Inductance measured = 173 uH >DC resistance of loop wire plus coax feed 1.5 ohms. Your DC resistance is WAY to high! Should be a fraction of an ohm. This is because you have the coax in the circuit. The coupling transformer must be located at the base of the loop. >Loop resonated on 136 khz, parallel configuration 1502 pf needed. Way too low. Your coax capacity is a good part of this. Use series resonance at the transformer secondary, not in the shack. The capacitor should be in the neighborhood of 0.01uf. >Gain measured at receiver without antenna and antenna connected = 30 db >approx. Gain difference measured on 136 khz between nonresonated loop and >resonated indicates 10 db advantage by resonating. Should be much higher. Common shape up! Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16211 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:15:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:15:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26591 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:15:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:15:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l2aX-0007yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:50:17 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l2aW-0007xR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:50:17 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 18064 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 05:11:43 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-11.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 05:11:43 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:19:34 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:03:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom. >One thing puzzles me Bill, if you are slinging wires over the tops of >trees which are close together, how are you adequately insulating the >wire from the branches? The main feature of my loop antennas is that the wire rests right on the tops of the trees!! I measure no loss from this even when the leaves come out in the spring. These loops are, therefore, very simple to install if you have a good way to place the first line. My tool of choice is the compound bow (by a long shot). Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13106 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 03:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 03:39:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 21245 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 03:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 03:39:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l13M-0007nR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:11:56 +0000 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.202]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16l13L-0007nM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:11:55 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d16.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.215]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2D3Xpe35396 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:33:51 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loop/update Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:34:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3C8E3629.6A23AB12@netscapeonline.co.uk> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good job there, Mal. I am using series tuning on my loop with the remote loop tuner box that I showed you. There is one mod since the picture you seen. Bill told me that wood gets lossy when the moisture goes up, so I remounted all the parts inside on a piece of Plexiglas plastic sheet. I still have to find my ceramic feedthru's around here and will replace the brass screw studs with the ceramic feedthru's. I will insulate the existing studs with Teflon bushings until I find the feedthru's. Keep us posted on your loop experiments. I will post my results when I get operating here. I will soon have pictures of my loop and the remote tuner box on my website for all to see. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of gii3kev Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:09 AM To: rsgb rsgb Subject: LF: loop/update This particular loop is now hoisted into its final position between 2 high beech trees, a convenient place. Top horizontal totally in the clear, bottom horiz 6 ft above ground, each vertical leg about 10 feet or more clear of tree trunks and branches. Loop is symetrical and rectangular 124 ft horiz x 40 ft vert, area = 4960 sq ft. Inductance measured = 173 uH Resonant F measured = 3065 khz DC resistance of loop wire plus coax feed 1.5 ohms. Loop wire 2.5 mm insulated. Feed 75 ohm coax, about 150 ft long, loop feed point, bottom right hand corner. Loop resonated on 136 khz, parallel configuration 1502 pf needed. Gain measured at receiver without antenna and antenna connected = 30 db approx. Gain difference measured on 136 khz between nonresonated loop and resonated indicates 10 db advantage by resonating. All gain figures relative using LEVEL METER W & G SPM-12. and spectrum analyzer. The spm-12 has an IF output at 10 khz. I built an ext product det/audio stage. Selectivity on this model 1.74 khz, 500 hz and 25 hz, all filters installed. This device makes a fantastic LF receiver. Considering the big signals around on LF there is no evidence of breakthrough. Using resonant hi-Q antennas overcomes a possible problem but as a precaution a front end filter could be useful. This loop now resonant on 136 khz is performing better than I expected on receive, but what it will do on TX could be a different matter. I also have to try and series resonate it and see what happens. Next step is to calculate/measure the loop impedance and make a suitable transformer to match my rx 75 ohm input, but so far even with a mismatch I am suitably impressed. It is now as good as the vertical on receive but bi-directional unfortunately, I suppose I need two of these at right angles to suit all occassions. At present ON6ND, ON4ZK are booming in and G6RO is also about, all calling CQ and it appears they are not hearing each other, maybe they need a LOOP !! 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26238 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 02:07:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 02:07:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26709 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 02:07:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 02:07:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kzdc-0007W0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:41:16 +0000 Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kzdb-0007Vv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:41:15 +0000 Received: (qmail 29830 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2002 02:03:04 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.100.142.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.100.142) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 02:03:04 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020312174907.015d012c@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:49:07 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: bows/cats In-reply-to: <3C8D4589.A9181FA7@sitestar.net> References: <3C8CF2E4.1D628CCC@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In my town, if the PD is called on ya, you'll have it confiscated and possibly be charged with Illegal Possession of an Infernal Machine (Felony)! I'll stick with the fishin pole... 73, Jon W1JHJ At 19:02 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote: >Do a web search on Potato Cannons. They can be inexpensively made from PVC >pipe and fueled with propane from a hand torch. They will throw a 2" diameter >hunk of potato several hundred feet. They are reasonably safe, easy to make and >one hell of a lot of fun. Generally quite accurate too. Proven >technology....... > >Rye K9LCJ ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22794 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 19:47:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 19:47:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10680 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 19:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 19:47:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ktaF-0006gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:13:23 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ktaD-0006gk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:13:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16ks3J-0001In-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:35:17 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ks3H-00024M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:35:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306135336.00ab5418@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:31:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re Antenna experiments (LONG...) In-reply-to: <7456735.1015413490780.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear John, LF group Some comments on John's queries about ERP and measuring antenna efficiency - if of no interest, please delete now! The first thing is to be clear about what is meant by ERP. There are different ways of expressing it, but what they amount to is that ERP is the amount of power fed into an ideal reference antenna, in an ideal environment and at the same distance from the receiver as the actual antenna, that would produce the same field strength as the actual antenna. Thus ERP is not really a measurement of power at all, but a measurement of field strength with the implicit assumption that the field strength is proportional to the square root of the transmitted power and inversely proportional to distance. Knowing ERP tells you how strong the received signal should be at a given distance, which is usually the most important thing, but is not directly connected with the radiated power, or the antenna that is radiating. The type of reference antenna is purely a matter of convenience - for instance, an isotropic antenna does not exist, but it is easy to calculate the field strength it would produce if it did, and therefore EIRP. A good approximation to a dipole in free space is possible at UHF, and is a convenient standard antenna, but of course at LF you can never get far enough from the ground to get the same behaviour as in free space, even if you could somehow put up the dipole. Nonetheless, you can still easily calculate the power you would need to feed in to an orbiting LF dipole, to get the same field strength in your fictional space ship 1 mile away, as you are measuring while standing on the ground 1 mile from a real transmitting antenna, and this would be the ERP (EDRP) of that particular signal. This is relevant to us because the UK amateur radio regulations define maximum power output on LF as ERP specifically with reference to a dipole. A short, ideal monopole over a perfect ground plane is probably the most practical LF reference antenna - it does not exist either, but at least over a limited range of distances, a very efficient, well sited vertical ant produces something close to the same field strength and directional pattern as the theoretical monopole would. Once again, the important thing is that it is easy to calculate what field strength would be produced by the theoretical reference antenna. For an isotropic antenna it is easy to work out the relation between radiated power, distance, and field strength, since the power density is uniform and independent of direction. The same amount of power applied to an ideal dipole in free space would produce a greater field strength because the dipole has directive gain; the ERP is defined in terms of field strength produced in the direction of maximum radiation. It is quite complicated to calculate the directivity of an antenna, but you can find the details in any antenna theory text, and the directivity of a dipole is about 1.67, whilst by definition directivity of an isotropic antenna is 1. So for a given power, the dipole will give 1.67 times the power density, or sqrt(1.67) times the E field strength. Or, for the same field strength, the input power required is 1.67 times less than an isotropic antenna. similarly, a short monopole with a perfect ground plane has a directivity of 3. The formulas relating ERP, EIRP, and EMRP to field strength E and distance r are: EIRP = (E*r)^2 /30; E = sqrt(30*EIRP) /r ERP = (E*r)^2 /50, =EIRP/1.67 E = 7*sqrt(ERP) /r EMRP = (E*r)^2 /90, =EIRP/3; E = sqrt(90*EMRP) /r EIRP, ERP, and EMRP therefore differ more or less by the factors John gave, which are the directivities of the different reference antennas. Once again, it does not matter whether you use ERP, EIRP, or EMRP provided you are consistent - since they are just measures of the field strength; exactly how the field is generated is not important. So the type of transmitting antenna actually in use, or how efficient it is, is not an issue The efficiency of an antenna is a bit harder to define. One definition would be the ratio of power radiated to total power fed into the antenna. This is the same as Rrad/(Rloss+Rrad), however while it is fairly easy to measure Rloss+Rrad, the resistive part of the antenna impedance, it is not possible to directly determine Rrad. One approach is to calculate Rrad, using one of the formulas or numerical modelling techniques like NEC. Calculating Rrad assumes a knowledge of the current distribution in the antenna, and this depends on many unknowns for typical amateur antennas - influence of trees, buildings, ground conductivity etc, etc. So in less than ideal sites, the calculation is at best an approximation. If we assume that the effective height of John's antenna is about 8m, we can calculate Rrad = 160*pi^2*(h/lambda)^2, = 21milliohms. Another approach is to infer a value of Prad or Rrad by measuring the field strength and calculating the ERP. To get from this to the actual power radiated by the antenna, you have to assume a value for the directivity of the antenna, since the radiated power required to produce this field strength depends on the directivity. The best assumption for a tuned vertical antenna is that it has the same directivity as an ideal monopole - practical experiments show this is fairly close to the truth. If we then calculate the EMRP (not ERP or EIRP) from the field strength it is the same as the radiated power from the antenna, Prad. Prad is the power which we would need to feed into the antenna to get the measured field strength if the antenna was 100% efficient.The radiation resistance can then be calculated if the antenna current Iant is known; Rrad = Prad/Iant^2. Or we could calculate the efficiency directly from the transmitter power output, Ptx; Efficiency = Prad/Ptx. Then again, if we know Ptx, Prad, and Rloss, Rrad is very nearly Rloss*Prad / Ptx. So in John's case, 10uV/m at 63km gives an EMRP using the formula above of 4.4mW, and the efficiency is 4.4mW / 200W = 0.0022%. Rloss is 93 ohms, so Rrad is 93ohms * 4.4mW/200W = 2milliohms. There is usually a difference between Rrad and Prad determined from field strength measurements, and calculations from antenna geometry.The difference between the radiated power calculated from what is going in to the antenna, and that calculated from field strength measurements has been called "site loss"; the site loss in John's case is about 10dB - quite high compared to mine of around 3dB, but similar to G3XDV's antenna. Quite what happens to the missing power is not clear - The argument is clouded also by the many uncertainties and unknown factors. For example, it is difficult to find out just how much antenna current is going down a nearby tree, and so find out what effect that has on radiation. The field strength measurements I did showed apparently random, but consistent variations of a few decibels in field strength from one place to another. In my case, with site loss of only a few dB, so it is hard to know if it is a real effect or not - although the fact that most people measure lower field strengths than they expect suggests that it does exist. But the practical upshot is that it all adds to the difficulty of obtaining high ERP. Hope this is helpful and not too long - have now forgotten what I started out to do! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25615 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:29:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:29:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18453 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:29:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ksRy-0006Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:46 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ksRx-0006Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:45 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-72.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.72] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16kqjC-00075S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:10:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8E3629.6A23AB12@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:08:57 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loop/update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This particular loop is now hoisted into its final position between 2 high beech trees, a convenient place. Top horizontal totally in the clear, bottom horiz 6 ft above ground, each vertical leg about 10 feet or more clear of tree trunks and branches. Loop is symetrical and rectangular 124 ft horiz x 40 ft vert, area = 4960 sq ft. Inductance measured = 173 uH Resonant F measured = 3065 khz DC resistance of loop wire plus coax feed 1.5 ohms. Loop wire 2.5 mm insulated. Feed 75 ohm coax, about 150 ft long, loop feed point, bottom right hand corner. Loop resonated on 136 khz, parallel configuration 1502 pf needed. Gain measured at receiver without antenna and antenna connected = 30 db approx. Gain difference measured on 136 khz between nonresonated loop and resonated indicates 10 db advantage by resonating. All gain figures relative using LEVEL METER W & G SPM-12. and spectrum analyzer. The spm-12 has an IF output at 10 khz. I built an ext product det/audio stage. Selectivity on this model 1.74 khz, 500 hz and 25 hz, all filters installed. This device makes a fantastic LF receiver. Considering the big signals around on LF there is no evidence of breakthrough. Using resonant hi-Q antennas overcomes a possible problem but as a precaution a front end filter could be useful. This loop now resonant on 136 khz is performing better than I expected on receive, but what it will do on TX could be a different matter. I also have to try and series resonate it and see what happens. Next step is to calculate/measure the loop impedance and make a suitable transformer to match my rx 75 ohm input, but so far even with a mismatch I am suitably impressed. It is now as good as the vertical on receive but bi-directional unfortunately, I suppose I need two of these at right angles to suit all occassions. At present ON6ND, ON4ZK are booming in and G6RO is also about, all calling CQ and it appears they are not hearing each other, maybe they need a LOOP !! 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21776 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:17:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:17:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6496 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:17:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ksJ4-0006TC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:51:34 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ksJ3-0006T7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:51:33 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 25462 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:13:30 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-8.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:13:30 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:18:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: investigating loop antennas Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:02:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, I really appreciate your efforts on the TX loop antenna section. I'll send you a bunch of info from this end. My bet is that these antennas will reach a popularity almost equal to the vertical as soon as the technical fine-points and environmental factors are understood. At the present time the only three 1w Lowfer beacons operating in this area of the US are all TX loops with a fourth about to be assembled. Bill A -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:02 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: investigating loop antennas Hello all, the recent discussions on loop antennas inspired me (at last) to start with the loop antenna section of my "antennas for 136kHz" webpage (http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm) I already have some basic information about loop (as transmitting antenna) but I'm still looking for more info. In particular I am looking for : 1. practical results with loops as transmitting antenna - measured loss resistance (eventual loop-current vs RF power) related to the loop dimensions and used wire - other details on loops that were 'real world' tested (dimensions, eventual drawing etc...) - matching loop antennas - tips for contructing loop antennas (do's and dont's) 2. efficiency of loop antennas - how to calculate the radiation resistance - overview of expected losses : copper-loss, ground-loss (edison effect ?), proximity effect etc... Of course any other information about transmitting loops is most welcome. I assume that short info can be sent via the reflector, longer mails and mails including attachments should be sent direct to me (on7yd@qsl.net). 73 and many thanks in advance, Rik ON7YD ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24908 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:04:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:04:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19348 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 18:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 18:04:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ks0Z-0006Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:32:27 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ks0Y-0006Oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:32:26 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 19372 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 17:54:23 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-14.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 17:54:23 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:00:35 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: loops Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:44:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >>From Dave G3YMC >I notice this series resistance figure was not given in G3KEV's recent mail, it is by far the >most important characteristic of a transmitting loop. What's the story, here? The world is waiting! That snow and high winds shouldn't deprive us. BTW: Maybe if I can get the loop article figures to you it would help. I'm working on it. If you have a BFC (no!: Big Ferrite Core) just drop your 50 ohms to ~1 ohm, at the base of the loop, with a 7T primary. Place your resonating capacitor bank in series with the 1T core secondary and the loop wire. This amounts to a series resonance connection. May have concede a few watts to stay within the voltage limits of your mica capacitors but......... what's a few watts amongst friends; right? Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22657 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 17:49:48 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 17:49:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6325 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 17:49:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 17:49:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16krlm-0006M8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:17:10 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16krll-0006M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:17:10 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16kqEt-0000Fv-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:39:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:23:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports In-reply-to: <001a01c1c9e0$38c6e260$d80e0150@roy> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: One thing puzzles me Bill, if you are slinging wires over the tops of trees which are close together, how are you adequately insulating the wire from the branches? My 1100 ft long wire is carefully suspended by 8 halyards over 8 trees around the perimeter of a field. In places I have had to install further insulators and pull-cords to stand the wire away from the trees. Quite a struggle to get it well clear of all the branches and I have 10 inch ceramic insulators on each halyard. Not sure I would like to stick 700 watts into it if it wasn't well insulated. 73, Tom G3OLB >> >> Don't think a fishing rod would work too well if you were standing in the >> middle of a forest and had only a small opening in the branches, overhead, >> to shoot a projectile through. I used to think that placing a loop wire in >> this situation would be impossible; not now. > -- Tom Boucher Telemetry Consultants Limited 10 Market Square Chesham Buckinghamshire HP5 1ES UK Tel: (44)(0)1494 792433 Fax: (44)(0)1494 792533 Mobile:07932-615232 www.telemetry.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14816 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 16:40:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 16:40:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18081 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 16:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 16:40:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kqkE-0006CN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:11:30 +0000 Received: from nat5.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.7] helo=xprdmailfe.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kqkD-0006CI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:11:30 +0000 Received: by xprdmailfe.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 9DC4C1E4DC; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:32:53 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: New G station on LF From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020312163253.9DC4C1E4DC@xprdmailfe.excite.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:32:53 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All,
A new station on LF is Dick G3LCB in Sidcup, Kent.
I worked him for the first time in normal but slow CW this afternoon. He was 449 here and gave me 459. Sounds very similar set up to me, running 200 watts into 10m vertical.
Don't know whether he is on the reflector, but in any case Welcome to LF Dick.
BTW I am finding Spectran build 106 excellent as an audio CW filter. Both the Band Pass and the CW Peak filters work very well and really bring out the weak signals from the noise.
73, John, G4CNN



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12215 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 16:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 16:16:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 22181 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 16:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 16:16:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kqLp-000675-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:46:17 +0000 Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kqLo-000670-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:46:16 +0000 Received: from roy ([80.1.14.216]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020312160813.NZAA10364.mta3-svc.virgin.net@roy> for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:08:13 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c1c9e0$38c6e260$d80e0150@roy> From: "HighGain" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bill, Oh yea it works Bill. I got a whole bunch of trees here. And I have managed to get the weight and line over trees in excess of 100 Foot Bill. Unless you are talking about wall to wall trees. It's amazing how little room you need to make a vertical cast. Basically the length of the rod. So if you have trees that are closer than that. Then I do not rate your chances. Of even using a Sling shot and getting it by all the branches ? That would be like almost impossible to get the correct angle over the top. You are looking for a slightly diagonal shot at it. And that's why the fishing rod is excellent. The problem with the sling shot is you can not use a heavy enough weight. That will make the line travel down to ground once hitched on the top of the tree..... Trees that are over 60 foot or more ? So any way try it you will be surprised, even in dense forest. Unless of course your trees that you used are 60 feet or less. I am talking about trees in excess of 100 foot. Anyway I think that this topic has got to a stage of stupidity now. Better that common sense prevails ? Regards & Best Wishes Roy Subject: LF: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports > Hi Roy, > > Don't think a fishing rod would work too well if you were standing in the > middle of a forest and had only a small opening in the branches, overhead, > to shoot a projectile through. I used to think that placing a loop wire in > this situation would be impossible; not now. > > Bill A SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP SNIP > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3334 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 12:50:02 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 12:50:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8711 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 12:50:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 12:50:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16knA9-0005dJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:22:01 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16knA8-0005dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:22:00 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16kldF-000Ovx-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:43:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:40:23 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Ashlock,William" writes >PS: I like Tom's suggestion about using orange monofillament line. Hard to >see the blue stuff I've been using. Hope it's available in a large spool >that allows free-feed off the end. Bill, The spool that I have of the stuff is about 120 ft which is not quite long enough, but it is freely available in sports/angling shops over here. 73, Tom From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16217 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 09:22:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 09:22:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5028 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 09:22:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 09:22:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kjmQ-00054R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:45:18 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kjmP-00054C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:45:17 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2C96iai121910 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:06:44 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020312100216.2e9787f6@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:02:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: investigating loop antennas In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, the recent discussions on loop antennas inspired me (at last) to start with the loop antenna section of my "antennas for 136kHz" webpage (http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm) I already have some basic information about loop (as transmitting antenna) but I'm still looking for more info. In particular I am looking for : 1. practical results with loops as transmitting antenna - measured loss resistance (eventual loop-current vs RF power) related to the loop dimensions and used wire - other details on loops that were 'real world' tested (dimensions, eventual drawing etc...) - matching loop antennas - tips for contructing loop antennas (do's and dont's) 2. efficiency of loop antennas - how to calculate the radiation resistance - overview of expected losses : copper-loss, ground-loss (edison effect ?), proximity effect etc... Of course any other information about transmitting loops is most welcome. I assume that short info can be sent via the reflector, longer mails and mails including attachments should be sent direct to me (on7yd@qsl.net). 73 and many thanks in advance, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9682 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 09:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 09:06:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 21732 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 09:06:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 09:06:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kjaS-00052i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:32:56 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kjaR-00052d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:32:55 +0000 Received: from host62-7-85-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.85.21] helo=dave) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16ki3W-0004bV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:54:50 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c1c9a3$dd6c5080$1555073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3.0.1.16.20020311093458.2d17e36a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: LF: Re: loops Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:56:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Rik ON7YD wrote: >Assume you gave a loop with a radiation resistance of 1 milli-Ohm and a >loss of 5 Ohm I hope that is just an example. If you really have a transmitting loop with a series R of 5 ohms you are wasting your time. Mine has a dc resistance of around 0.1 ohms, and an effective series resistance once earth coupling losses and skin effect are taken into account of 0.65 ohms. I notice this series resistance figure was not given in G3KEV's recent mail, it is by far the most important characteristic of a transmitting loop. See my website where all these things are explained. Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 379 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 00:05:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 00:05:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18891 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kbDM-00046D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:36:32 +0000 Received: from mail.sitestar.net.234.160.205.in-addr.arpa ([205.160.234.8] helo=mail2.sitestar.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kbDL-000468-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:36:31 +0000 Received: from sitestar.net [216.8.12.72] by mail2.sitestar.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A5718EC50022; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:01:53 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8D4589.A9181FA7@sitestar.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:02:17 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: bows/cats References: <3C8CF2E4.1D628CCC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Declude-Sender: ryeg@sitestar.net [216.8.12.72] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Do a web search on Potato Cannons. They can be inexpensively made from PVC pipe and fueled with propane from a hand torch. They will throw a 2" diameter hunk of potato several hundred feet. They are reasonably safe, easy to make and one hell of a lot of fun. Generally quite accurate too. Proven technology....... Rye K9LCJ gii3kev wrote: > There are numerous ways to get a wire over a tree and its interesting to > hear so many viewpoints. I dont have any problems with a catapult and > fishing line to get over 60 - 80 ft trees, in fact the line not only > goes over the tree but often goes way beyond the tree by 50 ft, and not > difficult ot spot the line and weight. A catapult and fishing line are > easy to obtain, whereas a strong 100- 200 lb bow is hard to find and no > doubt expensive for the odd job, hardly cost effective. > A crossbow at 300 lbs would be the answer with the appropriate heavy > ended arrow, this would take a line well over the big oregon pine at 200 > ft high, but you have to be strong otherwise you would be incapable of > pulling the bow string to load the arrow. The cannon approach is the > best option and let the gunpowder do all the work, the biggest effort > for the user is digging out the cannon ball at the other end. > There seems to be plenty of feedback about methods of getting ropes over > trees but little technical knowledge about large loops, feed methods and > performance, apart from contributions from the USA. Plenty of back end > DC engineers, digital and psk but RF engineers thin on the ground. > de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5922 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 21:08:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 21:08:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21216 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 21:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 21:08:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kYVz-0003iL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:43:35 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kYVy-0003iG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:43:34 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24180 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 21:05:30 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-8.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 21:05:30 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Trees as antenna supports Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:56:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Roy, Don't think a fishing rod would work too well if you were standing in the middle of a forest and had only a small opening in the branches, overhead, to shoot a projectile through. I used to think that placing a loop wire in this situation would be impossible; not now. Bill A PS: I like Tom's suggestion about using orange monofillament line. Hard to see the blue stuff I've been using. Hope it's available in a large spool that allows free-feed off the end. >Here is a far better way to get high above 100 ft or more. I know from >experience, I have several trees as supports. Use a small fishing rod, they >are accurate. And you can get higher than 100 foot or 30 mtrs with this >arrangement ;-) forget about bows and arrows hahahaha. Regards & Best Wishes Roy MM0LOS > Dear LFers > > Just a few more words of advice to the would-be Robin Hoods or Davids > (as in vs. Goliath) amongst us. > > 1) Use a proper lead weight with an eye in it instead of a steel nut. > These are obtainable along with the catapult in any angling shop and are > available in various weights. I use a 6 or 8 ozs one. > > 2) Use the fluorescent orange coloured mono-filament nylon line. Much > easier to see when it is hanging down through the branches. > > 3) If the weight doesn't reach the ground on the other side of the tree, > don't immediately pull it back but ease it back and forth to try and > bring it down. > > 4) If that doesn't work, pull it back SLOWLY. If you do it fast, the > line will wrap itself around a branch and you will never get it down. > Do not pull with all your might as you stand a good chance of injuring > yourself as the weight flies towards you. (I speak from experience!) > > 5) Once you have the mono-filament across the highest point, use it to > pull back some thin cord and then use this to pull across the rope > halyard. Doing it in two stages lessens the risk of breaking the thin > nylon. I use polypropylene for halyards BUT I would think twice about > using polyprop for guying masts as it is attacked by UV and deteriorates > with age. > > > - I've not managed to get a halyard higher than 60 ft with a catapult, > mainly due to the poor elasticity of the synthetic rubber used as > previously noted. Anyone know of a good source of bows and arrows in UK? > > 73, Tom G3OLB > > ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14733 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 20:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 20:15:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21925 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 20:15:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 20:15:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kXeP-0003bN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:48:13 +0000 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kXeO-0003bH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:48:12 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.8d.15217bb5 (4068) for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:32 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <8d.15217bb5.29be68fc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:32 EST Subject: Re: LF: bows/cats To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all,

> Plenty of back end DC engineers,
> digital and psk but RF engineers thin on the ground.

Isn't it wonderful how we all can learn from each other ? ;-)


73 Wolf DL4YHF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5476 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:56:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12544 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:56:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJ8-0003OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:10 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJ7-0003OM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:09 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-151.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16kUaR-0006SU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:31:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8CF48E.20EE565C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:16:46 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C89675D.7B76792E@att.net> <3C8A262C.E1F7BB22@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C8CB4AA.AB7A9A0D@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" wrote: > Mal, > > John and I both were seeing a broken signal on the same frequency > Saturday during your transmission. We both had moderate QRN that > night. If that was your signal I believe it would have been Q5 without > the QRN. > > Dexter Hi Dexter and John Thanks for monitoring and your observations. Had a couple of other across the pond reports that were also marginal but it looks like it was my signal, but East Coast QRN was the problem that night. Will try again soon, its the sitting up this end is the problem, otherwise I would do it every night hi. I like to get some sleep during the night because I have plenty to do next day, every day all year. 73 and tnx again de Mal/G3KEV > > > > > : > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1320 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:48:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15370 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:48:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:48:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJA-0003OY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:12 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJ9-0003OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:11 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-151.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16kUaT-0006Se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:31:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8CF5EC.D394A823@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:22:36 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3.0.3.32.20020311102055.006a1124@pop.netzero.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Jonathan Jesse wrote:

Had no luck Mal but willing to listen again when CONDX allow.

73 and thanks,
John W1JHJ

Thanks Jon, Parts of the call were visible in some places across the pond, propogation was reasonable but the qrn wiped most of the transmission out, thats the problem at this time of year.
Condx this end great no qrn, its a pity you were not transmitting, I would probably have seen USA signals this end.
73 de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 79 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:48:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5309 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:48:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJ6-0003OK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kWJ5-0003OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:07 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-151.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16kUaO-0006SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:31:53 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8CF2E4.1D628CCC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:09:40 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: bows/cats Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There are numerous ways to get a wire over a tree and its interesting to hear so many viewpoints. I dont have any problems with a catapult and fishing line to get over 60 - 80 ft trees, in fact the line not only goes over the tree but often goes way beyond the tree by 50 ft, and not difficult ot spot the line and weight. A catapult and fishing line are easy to obtain, whereas a strong 100- 200 lb bow is hard to find and no doubt expensive for the odd job, hardly cost effective. A crossbow at 300 lbs would be the answer with the appropriate heavy ended arrow, this would take a line well over the big oregon pine at 200 ft high, but you have to be strong otherwise you would be incapable of pulling the bow string to load the arrow. The cannon approach is the best option and let the gunpowder do all the work, the biggest effort for the user is digging out the cannon ball at the other end. There seems to be plenty of feedback about methods of getting ropes over trees but little technical knowledge about large loops, feed methods and performance, apart from contributions from the USA. Plenty of back end DC engineers, digital and psk but RF engineers thin on the ground. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26689 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:35:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24662 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:35:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:35:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kW6v-0003M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:09:33 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kW6s-0003Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:09:30 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16kUZy-0006jV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:31:26 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kUZw-0000Fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:31:24 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311182243.00b1d8c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:27:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: DF6NM's Hell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050505000205090501070207" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050505000205090501070207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I had a 136kHz contact with DF6NM on Saturday evening, with good copy of both DFCW and Hell modes from Markus (see attachment). I wonder if DF8ZR had any luck with his receiver? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU --------------050505000205090501070207 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="df6nm.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="df6nm.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAAjApEDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAABgcABAUDAgEI/8QAQxAAAgIB AwMDAwIEAgYIBgMAAQIDBBEABRIGITETIkEHFFEyYRVCcYEjUhYzkaGxwSRDVFZicpKVJTRE Y4LSk9HT/8QAGgEAAwEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgMEBQEABv/EADcRAAIABAMFBgUEAQUBAAAA AAECAAMRIQQSMUFRYXHwEyKBkbHBBRQyodEjM+HxQiQ0UmKyov/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8AFH6Z el0AeqdscBJZmJpzoHPohyqtggnI7HIJ86wqXTm6Pt1m/bWKn6cwRrFwOj8jg+0HsSf31oVo +o913StZQvF1Bb5Gs8HFPukVf0gqQmAF1cu7R1/te0pte5wWIKu5zpWAlmWZnZj+lRyJTx3x 51cpxFQiuKtfWltvK3jwi1nWWaTL7h1t8owYNjqf6OPuqb+y/b2ArVFjX1VB7eoPf+2P7adX SdQTdA77/A7D04rS/cQSW68YiGYwCrEhgy+33dsgN5PnSzp/Srf7lbb7dfYpQJJjFajlb08K GwGw5UkEd8jR30ruU+w7N1N0/brJFfoo8larExfnGqDirMCwHI8RgkZydSY6aVCqr1oSfA6D wjpCNLbw0PWnrCp2yr1BuG4VttG+z160jiCKb12MBJGOC9wM/GB31crbJuLb5c2i7v1vb9uQ ss9iZmWKR1OOLciBgtnGcn9td+n+qtxFFdukfa3oeq0/qWYQzUn9wDooOewbtjxnXLqXc6u6 7jCm0CZrNhUru800jvJ44APIe2ceB2OjZJwYyyuUEVrsF9YcmVgS2zbXXrhDG3ex/BvoFWjl t09zeCdYmDNzT/WFvT7EZKggfGMeBrh9L2vbdVtRw7m1uO3UWVa1Fg/2LO+PaHDAFeWTnt27 gnVXeIWr/RPb6BoGOc7gI/sbEfoZJJ8Z4l8Fl7qe/k+G1s/QmH7enu4aNfUVkDpGAPTPuwvb 9Xb5PjxpU6W5lsVal9YnoGlvUWvTgfeFP1ZXsW/qDvMk0NaNlssJm7pGD45MVAwW8n8sTrLs VZPvaMdO1YaeSXjFXmjw0TlvGOR8nX6P23ZItr3ueKGtZFizuUlqWQLIEIcOQeSEKynjkhsh SQuPculNb6W6l2rrerZsxWKW0295SOKYxRFYw0vZ+GMIQO4JUAkHGnYfFGajSaUoDS+37X84 UkyWBx662xV+oHR9Khu9u5Xd6SxPGLFdox35oCrxLhfZnKn8MDoZ2mnSWe5DcaSWokigy129 y+cNkniF8gk5/b86ZX1qp29669pbRScPY+wR4oTIqiR2lcY92BnAHzoQ3L6bdS0NgFqTari2 Vf054F4vyB8FSpPL9wM4/bTsJOEmSFmzO8R6wa5RRwNN+2NbcafTdfpC7t4tRT3K0Ul5Jq0q SVw0vprwT/McwqP25NoApW7b161KvuJhRHMg5NxWM/nOnV0h0pf2/wClm8bTv2wr97K8jUI2 RGdmeNAoX8EMoyW/v2XSU3ClZ2XdZdvvUo4rVUGOWNskZIyMkdie/wAaLBMjuRMavrztANOq apaL1mtd3Hbrm6HcDYjTitku7d2+B27EZ8ay6d+Xbq9uu0BZrEYQLIMKAcHPH/gdE+2/Tnri 3tqyVtptPRsAScRYRA+fniW/46yYNuh2jeEj3dJJCsbE14pRkvnCoSvLzpuZJpNDWm6mnW2O hyWzJYix8YrUN8n22jNFBXWOeRsR3FXEkf8AmAPzkHv/AF1brGgaMtae1uFe/K6lk4J6GM/K 5B7eR/XV+foLqk7W+9RbHZhq82kPHAMYU+eJOf740PbfZdt2jtWD6pyCfWBcOPHf86cg74CN WtDY7o4kypCtoLDlFq61WOjareraVoZAFjLqFZvBJT41zSGvf2cQUdqkFqujTWrvqMwK98Di Oyj+vnWjvFLbXsOkENpbrzlAklpZAVI9rZCgjJ+CSdZL29yrbdVjb1BVjcvCSuByz3wdBPUv lmMtAYJqBmB05dUj1YaGLaKsJnDO5LskYVeGO3uA/U34/A0U/TvpTberN5q0dzsWFDlvSSGR QyhVLHznsT28f30Eo8T13yB6pbmc/Iz+n/nov6L/AOhfULYK8VmvYiS0nptKoZOTfgZ7EEnB z549texAVJddlLUgFbMS1P44x3602qttnWm4Uo3nDxT+kuI/X5qVVlxyPc9+4HjRj0X04m29 HdTbvVjtWt2o2TFC9dpQXZUUlWjRgDgue5Jx5x7dMoUdpTedzsAQm9VMbWJvs3ksNxYtyJix yBRiuAM9snl41Nr3KLa996gqna2o7ft6Rt9xFIZI5SV5EFPCsM9yMEjjywOOsmf8QE6WobTa am5r1aO5yQLd7ZaPy7u6wVeMVeaQo/8AitVOeMTfjz3I8eNdtl414TulizhIGEaoAHfv3/S3 YjzqvuRhu9S2Epww8ZLLJEtYFEbLHHEN+kH4HwNMnpjoHedqs/8AxLoiWxmWPvPZDoq+WPFO x7gedaTTpUogkjQ93w4060jqv+oWpy5wt94vDdb010lBLIccIYhGuAPgA4H9tfIrFFqaLIjS yx/ysvFeP4BDDv8APg63vqTtlTbOprCwQR1JDKxerD2WIdipA+Mjvr50V0xL1JHdiqwGScrw jIw3FvPg/wDl867IxagBsuVet8EZTGYQSIpXemNxr9KVt9jtRWaE74KQszNA3zzAGAc8Rk/L DWzDsO0WejYrMW+0onkZWMUkaeuHJYFGb1B7fbyHt+dfNw6D672vp+xVn2SdaPqidzHKrcjj A9qsc/7NeG+mnVtTbaW4wbdOXnHqKnBRwXGfeSfb/cDUjvVj+plodn219oCXTNYVHVoHJ468 cce3yx+nYNjk1gnKmM/I/b51s7Jeh2bqbbNv9d71H7+J7EK4CSkMOJH7jQ9cgvyWTFYMk00Y PNefMoM98n47/nRT9Ptrqr9QNpj3mb7QRyJZiMndJHVgyqMf5sYH/Pxp+ILsr0uKdfmCzWPd px3cN0MK31BPc+uhnaR6FavVMJLzFBIoRiGI8N7pMAePk99JnqK/T3HebFmtUlrtJIzS87Rn 5MSSTyIycnTN+u6Rj6h7e8kKtG+3JkSMVViJJc5ORjtj50R9FT9B2Om6km+Vuno9xWNlliCe uwiUlRnu3uxjvknHwNRiX2UtH3gDyhaiot+YVW00N6l26lBWaxYoSS+uTVLMa38pYsBhP1d9 cOotkobLukkMe6R7nFHJ7xA6hskfB75I+e2mVQ3Dbk6qfp7p7o7aNyqEItyWAtk8mBfLFj7A ePtyRgEdx20Ub/tXQu2xxSbztW17fKsboI0pPCXmOOJV1PHA9wz7vg5HHGuS8UUnrm+mmn54 8NsUMcwyAe8fnbbCkN+FpCiR5ziVOakfgj9/zq3u9iO7bsXK/o1lMoRYIj+hQMe39tGPRdbp S5fs0epKsG1yRNyimktEB8f9WwfK4PnkOP7Y1oydcdJUhNHH0VsF6vVURi0iiIzEdshHBYfn yf6nWp8yrTFWShqBe9LecTuHlpk1reBjp3YRuG233XdRTMVZZPTsqoSTGO/dsf0OvFvcdzu7 1HNut97teqBGbcYRcIwzgPjGT385Oc40y9lTp36ibBaMW019raGoSFr1TYeN8+fGGJVRhccs eDjS/wCqNiu7d1NX2apH9zJHXWdq6Q4DvxJY+mMk9l8eRqaRilmYqrihNgNKCl72ijMgQBfq ABge3ipJ6LW65rrTkkwIoJCwX8ZJ7n+p760Om6G1zdK76+4bksFhY0+2jWZQWbPyh8jPHuO4 HLXbfNh3HaNiSeRpo0DJNwWuVVHPbAf4YY7j9tV9hG0Ho/qGW7ZJ3N4o1rxcSf5u5z/6dHiZ 0l0BSpobU3V2e/nBMjJOod0eoqUkNmOS1ZrRSCus1afgOLlTgDJxnt84J1g27ha/JZMcZZ35 tw/Rn8gf8talbdlTphKVURpbEzNNzUMJUx27MML/AMTr5tHTG/dTWZl27ZfuZTHyAHGEAHwy glQRp8yaVGZu6NF9Tv8AWFznXIqpzPPrlHDb98krblLuUs8sc6j2mHCuTjGA3lRjzjWns9Lb pNra3JaeATepEySMEHp4/kJb3d9X5vph1j9tFC/Ts6WwxSNkKMrjyebBuK4/8R92cDxrv1Rt m47T0ZT2vcJmrmowK0535O0h7EqOXgcjj2/3OpXxYMxcjVDU8YbhWNWdqGgJ84w+ntpkkm9W rutOCf03aIScWzjIIOe6k/GPOuNHlsrLNPXitOwYtXcEPFgdm7dwP92vXS+xbzudh3oQlYmX 0md0Xi/zwUN+pjxzgd9d72wWNo3kQ7rQsxGxEzQCweBkOPaeI7jJK+09x41RIaXnNDc216+8 cB/SVgtD1ekcOm5j9/6TX/sonjZZZs4Kg9vacjHnxkZxq7b203Opq8WxXCwrpGkc8wwpkUZw uC39h3xq1Z6N6xSBNxg6aNGMRCRpomCZBGcnk3t/p2xoeltWpTKLU4+4gjBViQWbuMe757fO vIiYmYcj2ANeeznHknBUCtWx/nWLdHZ49x3i5tu434ad1XbEs7hIg4PuDZwQc6Md42tumuit oelucyR2ZitqjckUfcAFQSgx3jyOQP8AlddB3Te7bftu8LuW704t0PL02rWRzU5GC5OCGwP6 H99E+69RybjEdp23a6sEYrkVrKq8UZA9zGONyVQt4JBJP51DPlzWnSx/hbd67/vAS6uapam0 ba8IEN/tQWN7aeCjPQD4WWOSTkwJ89yBgccYGNaFOdLMctGCS1ZWqnqVnn/6vif0KvuAz+e2 ceBqrtu07vvVW3K7y/a0a7SerM4EanAHHLMBk57AHP7a7bitilsG3SSVCAWZX9RioVh+n2gg g4B7/OrWeSvdFmFqdb4bhy2ZpradeW+KD9TXv4juFxRHFYvqyTvGmPa3ZsfjPzoy6It2Y+me ppLcsUFaHbzFHaaJeYLcuKI/9c4H+bHceNAG43bO63zNYC+pxCAKMAAeO3kn/fp7/RvaPsNh 3a1ueyJW4xKWlsRsplA5seXPIHbHwMDB+dR4iXWS0trVp40OlNTz2RGzs5IDWvChowULO3LP ciu1tvjGMxvkTSAfyBsLn8/Oqp6h3j7H+H1N1umrJJ/8uzHufj5/GtFNw36jSlV43Fd5jJ6d mTgob/y5AJ/bGrdLpHqitZo3o+nblmOwPWieOMxlSBkgkfo8+DjPxqrspYp29L6deusUzWso BodtqRS6OpW9y3KStDvybZKYuH+LOYxLHnJTIP8AfGtnba0kVq3Uh6qnrbWqsblhZcLK5X/q zk8ix85IP51nt9Ous4gu4x9OWDHI4KRLCrn3H5jJ5KBn5Ax8nXa90vY2vYL8noN6kKxPaYSp MqNnBUcc4wc+7PbxpAZGbL2gFeXr7QWHysrUXTjAtdNGCBq8c1ieRXOCeIjx/Ynv/t1b2Clu 3UO5LtdGw6PLEVId248APBx8d9Wtnhj3HcKitT47bSCm/MYi/sz3LEdx27ADRvtu1Q9TSL6c Z2D7KZ1r2YKEpIhCe1XcYz7ckljk5/8AFrmOnJJNDcAgVpX0qTAS5bHv5reVeEDPQe2RS75b jl3Db608KPEq2/0En25Ruatkee3xnWBuu7X5dzrX5NwnnsxqpSeUYdeJwBnJzj9ydF3Sm21J NxkgrbDW3a1FKg5TluMYJIMre8KU/Yg/Hf40Rdf9EbfDR299rjrjcbU0iS1p1+3ZwoIzGJGU AKcKAow2VI7Y0pzKlzij3JFja39iPMpCBAb9ekLuPqS7bX1OoVubpVLNweSw44My4PE+PGO2 rEe8Rw7YlXbnu7XY4n12WyxV0xn2DsRnJ9ucHzpqf6EQzdO1Nuu9STtt9WQRS1IKIf08ryw0 igj28s8scfg99D8v032+a+ZbH8Uj2haUTVLkcDsHz5LjgePdv0kKf1f10C43DhKtemmtKbuh BBmQEDZbS9+NK+EKcokbCOINM0mApYYxk/j86MZuja0ANNOo68LGus08E7BGEgGSgXl3IPbR jvX022WTp+ndh3C9PuYgaP8AwKjn1XGQGYKrHHbse/P4JHfWZs9LdX6rg2fq2INPaqH7eWZF cqynIZnTDHADd+akDvn41ydjkmJ2ks0Vdm2nDU84CUZUuocZjs990BsUVfaGq21rtanZfUFd yVAZfDnjjtjuP+Oru0UrW8QjcEkE9j1XiSKWv6icQnI83OSMA9v1f21qdWb3t8XUNhqUMlCa aEpYuRNJHJKQPDRN3QEqvtI7+STra6M6a2ez0r6j7zPLcuVpB9isUsscQDdyVjIb/LgZGfIB Gmz8Z2OHGIpQ2484eChYAfTuGoOysBlPbFtbZGyb5DFCGPqq8aFoQ3b2ZbPf57r/AH14g6gv dMyW6dLc5p4LEYjd45DGR8DiQSFOO2fx2146qA2HdL+z7cs9ekzA4YsGlHEeQQP+A1mbLas0 twF+tVSZYVLsjIrDj4yAc9x+cafLY4ha6g3G4QE6YisJSrQ7Tc/YwUVNk2rbINumn+53i7dr GdqFP/VHLewMwwy/k+06xOp3hrXIqFHcLksdYn/CkkzHA5/UIyGORn5wCfxrt/pDuj17O5Qr diu8lja9DMy4UH9DAdsfp/2DWTW2rdkQ34NttvFEvqmUQtxUfnl+NKWUQQJr/jwH4vCprKFy yxUdcIsbDvH2O4RpbntDbssLCQSEFlZeLYBIBOPzrrHZEl2ymzGc1o1dq5s4MqL5OAvYEjzj R99J6ezbrttsX6ESSQzorXHqm1I7OGC+mpBWMqQpLFWB8tjA1o9edEbhFZG8zHdd3ow1EaG3 GscMiNy/1ZRYy3Ye7kVAHjOvLiFM6lKAV2i52Gn8wqWSDSsL3auoJtu3BbW3baUZuSI2Xcqz D3ccYLHj/mJx8a49SM9a67xWbMU8sQSSAliVU9zG5Zi3n4OmH0ts237xtTUrKxm+9WaOqZqb maFvaUb1CQOxJC9hk5HIeNYVKtW6y2eKhvnVbVdzqztGsFpFbsP/ALhwWOOWAWP7aXPxatNM wCpFib1oNCLaCK5jhEaU+2lLelNkC1LZZLkMVivaijslWmeR3CRwqPH6fBPx+ddkvWaG1u8M 0jX5ZMTLPErcQhyrqW7kjGO/j40VRdCbTJtNm10/d3TeL0ePRihoOEVg2CsoZSDkkHiSO3cg jvq4tC3eazvN77me7NGadv8A6NIRUZAhckx/qPHx3H/5aa2NwzqSQTuFDUnxH44QciUWNFse cHH0mu7hV2ncNk3Hb9w+4bnf++aBjBIrKgxk4JfOTjBzhjk6UFnqxuoOpK46mrSRtCBT9WCV o54kBI9xbKnBPfIB86c3Q0cS9J9QR7FujOPuOVawMLMGEa/4bmXJ8qV7qPJwf8v52jmMdyOT c6ck6mUySksUllGe4LEH5+cZ1PhUE5ywJrw/mn3iWYzJMZuMHf8Ao7tX/fGt/wC5j/8ATU1n ffdLf9wLX/uk3/8Anqar7PEf9/8A4/MH2ojKEm4WSKOy2LUtacEQwBvep7ZAA8Z8dgOWMaf1 ao2wdISTJbkO5/aLec25UPqPDx5E8+/fKIzdgBxwy9jpZ2N3WmwTYYr1inRxXid9ticGRBxH J0jUnzzBJJOfGqcP1C+oVyKUDfp4atZcvLJUjX9JwRyEeSf699LnSWxQE1KKo1B+onj1WCnS 2cKq3J9tnCNTcuuPqLtV6vJc2FKNOrESKoosldvb7C2TjscEYIPb40YdPdVp130FvUu6sYrE 0BgsQ1YWWJORYK6n3MxwQWBLAAL2H8y/v9Y9Ubpwjt36W6bNYIRBcrwryH79lbI0Y/TKhtlr ozek3+tta/Yu6LmCOF4IvT4+oXVQwzhx6hJJ4nv21PiMOeyLgAXGn43wnsigDTBCbbakr72v 29qKemk3ttQvgRqGOC3YYP8AUd/jW1vcnVleDat3t71HISwFCKNyJcEdpBHxGQR2zqz0juXT s8I2S3FBDHcLvLYuQwERNxxgSMOa/gcTkcsjvnV+0+7yvcSGxG+1QcqNCxahqmY9sL6ThclQ MHMfwfb303MHmKmmXadtd3GGqoZuzl87dCM+K91wm0xVmqSyUIiJYvuKqxiORuRzHyVSWJL5 xnRl9Gq3UB6ga1PIkVBoXP27khmHYEon6Vy4XLfPHQqu42IeirH8Y3mHcq1gmKlF6cczRvxK ks0sfOLsPaQV75bvnRt9Ft2Vdws7XSoD+HvFzjtrFl/UHHksj5yAcjAxg6KYG7Nu6BQ7BT3r HiCso5jx13+HvBPPfoW629HarsF+5PRknEiSU2CrHI5Rz3GRyfIJyox7uLZLL/a+justwkpT 9QX2v0pLCrPBY3SSUxhDywvF+8hXJUIx+c48ao9bbnuvTe89Q7fRgbbafqR+g8FKCFhGOwX1 IlBI7niGOePnvnWHX+p/Vd+7t9fdt5sDbktRNMI4kjbgGGcsign25+dKlyXUZpYqCDpc+BiT IZAC9CLH1YH8I6+htbYLdR3pxTJK4McxPuHM5w3hcd+/5029h3qze2TZ7FaISz2NrjdsCL1n 9BlJGZO7AsxGe4XOSUJ0sfqx1LW6m3Kpb22VZtsVFQyyV0SQuC3ZXZRIRhvGeP8AfVN/qZvW 2Va+zwDbbG0Rr/gwGI+m0ZUji4DKWGCcq2ST3OTg6BsG74Zblae/V4GbLd1zMb7t8N3oCzT3 rbeodxFqR0F+wa9+YIZI4Xji5MrOMAArnxj2jIOhH6x7m+6LWoUruVnEdswTSwonAhgFRhgt 3yx5EjJ7E+BodC731X1DsNqxtcW0bYlV2ZIYkVY5BwRVR0ClgvsY8gQWPYdl0u+r/qJc6l2z +Hy2/uis5kEjV0U8eP6VIGcA/wB/3OvSpRTECWR9PKKklimdjS3jG30WN+Nytc6VRvs6cRd2 3kOaaNnizqwyEYAtn3KcZxkaa1mt0s+4U7s6wfx2ysopyngWlx35YQFCAOLAsDgYP76QNr6i 9eVNrXa7G5zQVDEYlQ1Y4yV48ccgoJ7HznWcm57pHtFazHboVGqspgavVihsMVGM+oiB3/ck nPznRHCPMZmlwtndmNLb+UM7r3rPdpNusUKtF0WeMWhYqtlVgfsXkMUnEnPbJBU/BPY6Um17 et2pYmku14J4XQrHNLwLjvnj+SO3bRxd+oXWydKUW+/sxxuWSd/tok9TP6cNxye3k6GE3mZ4 aqb3tdWSisgb146KxyuAuADIoVm/Pc5PknVODlTMOgAN+vv4wZWrAOLDyiQbBRavHebqDa46 xnC+k8knr8R5JQISO3z4156h30WjJSpWbMm1wMYqqSyMxKZyXIJI5fuAO3wPGu8f8W6tMW07 ZQoxJH3iEFNImbiMANKATnHnm+D8nPfWbb3a9B6NB/tIftfbyhpwxyhlBXDSInJv7k5/J86q WpnVd7jlatrDaeMLdqKQBaPnSVDbb/V220t3m9OlNNxmZW44z47/ABk40/oOhekumd62bcKO z2o3jsSkyNKZxwQMoYgM3YllIwPxy4ntpAWt1tmvBUsVdvMCKrRlKcUbsMYBaSNQ5P8AVj++ mF9PN/6liv0dhmjs/wAKmrNIlehDDC7jGORZQrHsBk55Hsfkaz8fhpiITmplr1r6wMs8IbVQ Vrr2dxtV+UNtpqshsVUhUo5ygkE6qxz2XChgSckHzrz0tvTXre67TeExkJMhkZAfaI41YPIn +FzyfCdu3fvpRdUdR9aX70NDftwNfbpJiFrUZojIxHt45QsxIzgg5HbR79J9uivUtzjt0oHp 1pY4YPXoRRypMgPNjxUEkq0fdvd+rUS4KkkMWzAg7oYZVi53jrlCR3WSA7/ub7atZWW3JHXW GPgxHM8SijsMDGPnT06YluHZqG2/c7p94Y5akk1low/qlQ54mT3HHFiq4wQQWBGDpHdQbn6F qGlU+2UVGXLLSrpKsi9sGSNAX8eckHzk6Iovqh1dfilj/jckFaJRKJPTRGj4jAGUUEgt2wQf jWpPw3zshUFBl84XMXMShN67NIqdebvvsu5Lb3Giy1bldRC8qiVJUx2KsGZAc/5Mf0Gir6V/ wMT3LZiQR7WkdmO5GmJ4xn3+q7e3iACO3fjn546B97676s3uKBN8sR2443E1dZaUPn8j2dx+ R41c6b+oO67FvMd2H7XnLGYWqQVVhi4k5B4RcAXzjBwex104Kc+GyUFd2lfPfzjrTGPd6HCH RPvm6r1Puu0BUjMHJ6/KOIWHhaPkohOCmRKP5xjC5Jyra9RbzS6iptZkh9ajBuDVpl9GEJ6r KEK5Y9gS5U9wST/MrDklNw+ofWVjfn31L00E0IWGRq8QES4J9pGCCPd/NnRlS+o/VV5KqUpa SWbyqiCWMonNA2SMYUMTgnJ7gDIxrNxHw6YtUJ0OtdLekGZHbksvdoBAfv8At523qM0tvnnh uoRFxlaOLinwr4wD8EjGMY126dG1T9b7a2871ObYkTjbqlZEV8+wAMjD/dga+2erru3357O/ 7ZSl3KdWLwWdtiVXJOV9ReIOc+cnOMa69LpNY6h27fd22jaYNqu3FryRzVYEi4sVJ4pJ4Gf5 h3HcZ1qEZUCMw+m53nZFc05gVG37U94ZVW76f1uTbvu2tp/DQrzTwxl5JBkglgo+G/lwNK3b Nr6dvdW7ht/UC3Tdm3Vq0TU2WNB7yCTy7Af79HnV8cvR31Ug3ultkKbSaifeMKysh9zAhQfD YVcY74/bSvW5uNbfLG77HDC9eSzJJWU1IphEC4bHplWWMjA7qB47HGo8PLzfTa1DprEiiYFU 0rbxhudS1tt6A2L7TpWpFLZNj7G3DaiSRJwwDj1jgE4DAL3H+s8HkDpQ9Ybt1NbtzVd5sMPQ my0Ec3qRrJ++HYA/trRHW3VTbXuE93eRKHb01rWIYZEYk5YCNlIAAx4GND+37xeG5PZjp1LV p880koxzJwyCQIypVQD/AJVGNPwuEYEzJ2vW3YeFIEjKgU6xq7H0RuvVcqtV3Hbo7EsJf0rd wLKwHb9HnH4PjRYLnVfRnTtfpnbKO3T2C8wmaCutiX1P1fk8n4lf5TheGhjbtySetNeWhWE0 tgiaU7dA8MOe+FV1YKMY+B/XVzbOpvqFR3Wevtl+VnSIuywJE8IhBySg4lAo+Co7DsPxosTJ mMytmBX7U4wxpRWppWunOGL9PKrNUi3PqNaUbCT0srHHWmhMgwrTZCMCeConA9wR7flVv1tu tjZuutxu7dalr2XnbhM0mbCLjiQ2DxA/y/PHGutvrH6gzQ/fm3Zu0UVw1h6KPDgspYEGPiO4 Xt5HgdjrJ2exLTvlpaW0zz7krem81aOVEZj2CRgcF93bAXA747aXKwby50xzStDX8+UcXMe7 9Pt/cYibtaj22WqS01ZmI4tJII1J79gGAz/UHWp03VuXund/hpVxYb0Y3aMLkheXdh/TXhY7 2z9WWKtobfBaZ2E33NSF4FJ79kZCignwQBgHGBo+6Diet0p1TulujXuqqxzvUeOH0uPuPMQt xUDIyOwGFPHJ7aZiy3Zgy9lB5/xHJbshLPstC222GlcsQLanirQxqEbOVaXJPzgj+pJAxjT0 6di+56G+02OzUkWvtxmhsTtFI8M8bcgJOWQAGIIIBXAbuDxOknDJuG12f4xZp144rWW/6RSh dHUsD/hxupXGflVGB21sdIdZXtl3Xcb1MrCZkdnjhgQJg9+ynAAB8DP9tdxeC+doxahF6coO VQ/pstCY7pd6yVP8SDqJ7EspaNVksCEIB3KFW7/7SMaOK+0b8NzsbjYk2WRN2oO0EUhRbjcY gAFYjJPJgpyxPbuT5Ijtf1N62qfcy2t1usbCconEEbBcd8qpXj8/GvVzrrqOTphJru5w7hZm serXZ68E/pD91YEI3dsDHID9tTTcJNISqgchDAGI5X42j79Jdzo7ZvO5JcmdOMSykxlOWY2y cMx4Ad+/fv8ABHjWt9Q5ZrW60TsQsmDaZpZ23GOMFF5cHPvQEAoAM5HLHEkNnOlhte97nS3l 7u3rX+8kLf8A0cbqvI5PGNlKr+2AMfGNHKfUrqZt3qDb9/mhaZVjswCsjMX5e4heBXJ/YDQH DzBiO3oKUPp94mAD0fdbzMHG5z2qPSMkKs9q5Gy2QHqViHafKHlHwV1B5MDlA5LYywDDSHu7 ZuNRppLVSWthsMskXpYOfAUgabcG+9RbT1xfi2re7NmrMPu5azw+rLCWGAGQqCpHtBCD2rgH xoM3vdOpLG8bluVmanM14faTTRiKSJhgAheQIU4A7jBHnPfXvh8kqcupN7cetKRQ2HYIWO89 Hh4xgdPwyneK00VaS4IHEs0EKnmUU5Y4/pp+7jVpw7RetLVeOxYlLtTX0U9RZk9JXYN3CMw7 cipLK3lcaUfT2+75tW6WV2vboI7PptIvobfHJImV48kdgX4549gSCOR1o0+uevdm2drc9iWz VayZGtWkWfg5AGAzZ44/y9sabicC06YACKCwrzrE+RwuZdPGkDD3922TdXp2/u6ipH6MkHH0 3aM+QF/fznXifba9qCfcqNgCKvxeRbZ97En8Y92tmfrDed5jt27n8Ha1wKyzT0YFsSkjHJW4 8g6gADiRj26rbPul7cZm2qzY26CO0j+rbs1EeQpxAI9Qxuy+0dj2x5zrQImEZ3199kNR6jLM vXT+4FwwikhnilRnzkoOQ4kHz8f7jp7/AE0vb7LtvVu5n7ezuVmpHNXWWwrM3EScQycshMkd zjPfzpXNu9XY6YrbSdtuP9wxc2qCTuVxgYZ48gdvhtNf6QXhvW6XrDbZttGwa5cmrW9N5GZs MQ/duH6eysPdntqLFFmUnLtF93DlAGXlUoT+ITV/Zn28wVpUAuOFdgeQcEnsMDt/UYyO+mEn QvWNWh/D6O5bTWhciT/C3GVfSyM+GPtz/TvoDu2N32cSV7tSD0rxebnboI8jhuxZZJFMgBI7 EEEefJOvEnUczx2kENSSO2e8tijC7xkqAQsjKWXsO2CMeexJ1VMlPiZYVSBl+8cE0ISctK/b jB9sfQ3VlHeYUG9UfVjJ9SWHcv8AEhwR7fyO+MgdiAM6F+qdv3Dp69PJuW5ou6X4fWsV6knf 1GYn38VCY/OCe+s231Nuy0paMlynaisLxlV6scjqOIGA7oSuMduJwD3HnOtSDf6UfQEm1wbT EbatyksPTWVeLdjhm5FDjH6QuPIwSSRSXNEwKRpQaDbvO7wg2eoIVtPOBKO3uQiaOOxYImbB RZDl/wC3zp47FHK3QjQ1IhVvT7PLHJHItUh3gYrhvV9zefcGyoHbKntpMbf1Be2blHSSgwEv NXn2+Cdgf2Z0JH9jot2n6idZXtzlsLuCyyRUyghMSmMJyUnCAfq7fHf8dtR47CduQqGmXWp2 86QmWWmdwbfSNzp3dN66h36r0/e2WpXrpts5hgobfGuVkQgOGOVAbk3ckIeX/i1X+ouzNXrw WdpEku21YRVmaSwLXpSeGjIDMkZTv2HBR/LkY1X2H6s3a/UO47hud+/YSaFkr10ijMXf4ZD+ kdh3Xz86Ho+p91lsyV4bsaiQHFS1DC9SMeQEiZWQfgYA8+dFhcLNWcZim4oOBPDfHSad1Yau x1K+3fTR69eDlfv7QLkcIiilWWVULB1Q+8yKSnn2j2492dC/TfXb19vmlv7rUpbujyQ16tio wqyI7KWEgSM9s8snIOfOsuxvtKn0RDNWvMm4TtyfbJ6MctQvyJdlV0aNf5eykY/A8aGdvl3d X++qQUrEtuRwKxowz5P6mKxMhVQMDwBj41JJwmdZna1rXd61g6MW3w3b9XrSgJNwNDY2nRvu bdKWOFlHJeAnRV9xQgMp5HlnlgY0IdKbtt1nd5+otzvtDu1IoKUdMoiyIicSCjjAUJ+CDjPb Xi71Rd3mzJKkOPtKhrmq9KOWIHkuGMThlB5ecKDjGAB20E1L92nvFmYRVRZlLBknpQsgYsCQ EdSi9/wBj9hqtcGWlCVoW0p7wUxCgJYWO6DXqZ4t6W1NFsLyV5bjzx7hVqxs3Eschni7H9Xh u/516odV0KcSV5aEdSUOyWrkdFA8sL9wjZx7iO+cE5UY7Z0MbX1z1P01dlFHcftRK5keKKON o8sQTheJVfHgAAfGvd3rTc2YyjcpLpmd2miuwR2IlBYEcY3UqvgeAAPjGmfKMZRlvSx22Plt ghiVFwukcd9iqtaXcKspt0HwkAlOHQAABZAoUKR+3bt21jehLYqy2ESJIEbvhwp7+ABnOr+3 WrdezZ3HFBDISG9ejHLFyPuwsZjZV8dsKAPjtqbXvktC/Nfajt0wnYmRJqkTquTk8IyOK+O2 AAPHbVsqolheHVbQiYwd8xtWPdBx/C0jSETWDPhEmLCJDx84BALf113qbzvFG29RpromcNDN XeV1DZ+CoOvkN+3V3Cxue0ip6liVhHE1aGXiCS2BGVIXx8KAPjV3p/dTsfVw3bf6lWzHYEjz Qy143IJOQVjOAp5AYx4GhmI6LXJWw434HZDVcmmymu6nHjG5F0tv8/TFI0LG0UaG4gmWJplR 3eNmzyLDmxXB7AnHFu2vOwdT/wAG6huS25prfTl3lFcnaEyiVSGPFS6jy35x41hbj1jvslsW rAgELKy1oJaETQojMGPBGQp+O/nWfU3/AHGrPLboSV/cMvFPXhaMMx5EpEylAAR2wBjtjGpR Jd0YTDrsGv8Ae+PPNUEqBDl6oe9WnO57Sa0i340sJPLFGLUMPp8XmXC8lwuFLN2HLA0v+h9w 3f8Ag+7bRt1KrLVdhZmsyiMtFxK4YtIwXA458E99cumusd9tdTl923srTuDhbFmBZYmjBJ4i PiVUHv4UAAnWUN2FTdb267dRprHNK6ywTVUkrlCwYIquDg9s9sEfHbS8Nhmly+ydRUXuNeHG m6OL9AZeXl1vg32Pd6u1zblHvO7JB/EoZI7ctJ4wB2yrn0xk5VmK4B7nvqr07udWzuK7nvW6 JLGGECnb5UgmfnkM8q4VmOB3IBYlVxnVHZurb93fq9nfen6W5xLAsLZ21ZGSLuQUQ4UZ+O2M ZxgZ0Ob11E92wPRo0Nsw3No6NJYSknuBIbiXC8cZXljPfGlDDMzmoysdbinDKNRD2mipcixh 2fTurU3LovqDa9qghrWa1lkijnjAdl4q0frAhmKsS4zjIXIXuNIehbjrXpTc9WBwzOrQx8WS QHwB2wP27Y04PpX1Rtu4bTu+w71Z2+OxYjPpv9sqmyAuGZ244kbuD3yx9xIPnSq3HrC9vECw 7tDStyRAKLJrIJiAMDMqAM3n5JB1Vhc0nEdnYdbYlLXzg9cIn+lN3/OP/Tqaoffzf9qk/wD5 T/8Avqa0ss3ekF81xMXK/UW8wbnWmg3O1E5nRT6chUEDGBgdsfto663YVZ9wjrxxQosgiCxR Ko4ugZhgD5JzqamsiYoGNsI1vhjFzMzGtoE7diQbgtNOEcKyLGBGioxUqMgsBkjuexOjX6T8 tw2beK1qSWSsi+iIPUYRlXRywKA4OSB3IyPjU1NavxYAfCyw1v6xiY92zuK7YXfWVKtt/VG5 V6kKwwx2GVEXwo/Gif6U7PR3fc90r3YmkiWBGCrK6dyR8qQdTU1l/Gf08IGSxyjSHYe0806t Gh1dTq1aaUK9SvFXXqCSvxSJVJjATClgMn9TeT863foaTU6j3urBhIWWPK4znBkx3PfU1Ndk XwU2uwx7GajlAf13uNuvf3+pBL6UMu7WY5FjUKXVXIVWIGSB8A9tBuyqJr0PMZxKgGO2Pd+2 pqa0VRe1pS2U/wDmBmk5kPKCL6qxJD9Qt0jjUKiLDxA+P8NNWd82qhW+l/T+4w1kS5YmcSzD 9TjLjv8A2A1NTWQhPYyeY947qz1g9+l1uen9DeqbNeQxzRNckRx5VhWiIOkwIIxtlewFAldm DN+cftqamtL4YAcZNJ4RK30CKkwAkQfDIGOfzjXMSPMyrI7MPGCfwO2pqaGexAahgEJIFYb3 0b2rb9727dYt0o1rqQFBCLEQf0+Wc8SfGcfGgLq+vHt3VO5U6YMNdXOI1Y4Gpqax/hsx/n5g qdI0J/7MfNrtWZKBLWZ/8JhwxIwx8fnXze6VdLN9lQ8lnjUHkT2ZST898nU1NfUzkUy5ZpqP zDXvh7xhVrc8YlCvgPEVbsO4zrd6S3vcNt3+k9WxwIsIBmNWADMFbAIOMqSD+2pqaw3ZmkMG Nbe0RIdkWPqJDHH13uIjQKHdJWC9gWZAWOP3JJ03ujrU1n6RdWicrL9nFM0HNA3Bki5I3cdy GVSCcnIGpqaRIH+mlttt6RQPobwhDwTSU9xSeuxSQLnl57/31Z3S1LbWFpipbtkqiqT2+cAZ 1NTX1EyWnZsaDqkDLY0ddlRFvptQZ78ncPFSlaNgcFSCMHOsyPetyhuSTpclExiMfMnJ4n4y fjU1NZE2y23w5+7LQC0fbl2yIIaQsSCqEVxCGPHkVBJx/XRf0FZsX9yhFixMRVEYhCSFAuD2 7LjP99TU1FjP9q523ijBE/NAbIxepZ5JFsl25H+JTkkjJOSM99FX0kdh1RtUnIl3t/bMW7/4 XpO3Dv4GQD/bU1NVzLyVruH/AJhE79x+UEfU+zbfc+uNyhYqpJVtVY5Zo2zhnxx5D8HHyMaz Nk6X2a9s/Vn3FIN/Dr80VXjI68VXPEHBHPGB3bJ1NTWKZriblDGlFt4waqMi23wp7hLVkkYk uzsWY9yddaOUYTKSJImQowPg6mpr6bEAfMEcB6RnS/3F5x232/btblcWxZllUTNgOxP8x1Nv 3jcqcbVa96xHWmHpyQiQ8GUnuCvjU1NR4r9sQ9STPNd8a/V6Dbt3joVOUNSWKJnhVjxY/kjV ffGet1Kwgd4vSMaoY2KlRxHYEeNTU01/2q9aQ6Ye845RTv2p9wr07VyRp7DyMHmk9zsAEAy3 k/300PpdYms9CdWevK8qehGBFIeUYyHBwh9o7AeB8D8ampqf4kKLbdEUwm55Qv8ApS/bv7/U pW7Ms1UI6CF2JQLxJwB4A0bdI7fTvbXtUFqrDKm4RWRZ5oCX9Mjh7vIx+xGpqaz5zt2Gu0eo jXw5zDvXha1dyuUo5nrzsjRkGNhglDnuQT4/tquk8tqyJJ5GdpPc5J8n86mpr6LC3xSqdIxp ztlArvjk7NXuyNCzIyP7SpwRqxHZnjZriTOtlcEShjyBPzn8/vqamloAGmjn6x4fSsc47tqS SeeSxK80gw8jOSzf1Pzq/tE0kkjRyNzjjikKI/uVTx+Ae2pqa7J7kqVltUwyUxz67DGj0Tet Lvk8wsSepDTkWNs/pGPA1jwzy10DxyMCrpIBnK8gexwex1NTS8MAWmk6gGGzGPYS77fxGn1J KTBs93hEtiWMtI6RKvNgfLADBP7nzrJ9eUmxN6jCSRTzKnGcn9tTU03AXkMT1aPYokYgiLNC NI6DTCNDI0wjJZQ3bjn58H9/Onf9Cp5ZNt6jZnOInQIg7IuFbGFHb+vbv5OpqalxlsDKI2mP GymEXBJJYSws0sjivCfSDOSE7gdteol9e5BUkLNXMhJj5HGfH/LU1Na0oD5FeY9YmBJmX60i hMoQgL2AcjVhr1un68NaxJCkqrzCNjl28Z/H7ampqD4gAmbLa49I7K+ox92ICXeKyyKrK0gV lIGCPxjRBuV2wu17fuKyYt5lX1QozjJGPx4OpqaWqgyEtsMXYMns3jN6c3S5tG/paoSiGZon BYIp7FST2II+Bq/09enrX91sxmP1nqTOWeJWww9wIyDjv+NTU1LMRexY0v8AxA4f6BzjO3zf Nz3uGhJuVySwyK3EtgYyzZ8f0H+zViHdb22wbZbp2XiscJEEg7sF8YBPj+2pqaJVAkTKD/EQ upvFS3NK1KpdeWSSzYLGaWRi7SEEec+dXOoN5v3Nzs17E/OETemE4KAFBwAMDt21NTRsSMSn JYeWKyWAPVIqVK8Ua2JlTEkVtFRsnsMn/wDoa47+q1d7sxwAIgkyB5xqamq54pLFIkX9g8xF uPqXdzFBVN1jBEeaxlFwTjy3b3ftnONVo40O37nIVBeP0+DEdxlu+pqaTJNMO5GtTDZrFsoP Vo4TKIIaMsWVdk5lgfnke+vezqLG9VI5RzQzqpB8EE+NTU1TU9qg4CJj7xxmlkg3Gf0XaPg7 BSpxgZ1c2+rDY2rcp5U5SxGPgxJ7ZbvqamhJJYV/5GGSruawwtj6a2iTfd5jemClbbvViBkb 2sV8+e/9D20vKt+zE1OOKT01Y+4IoXlg9s4Hf++pqaUhJnODvWKsR3JqhbRxW9bTc1mS1Osr MAziQ8iP661epyPtYpQqCRp5OThQGbDfJ8nU1NccATZnhHpd8O9Yfv0cHP6e1JnLM4SaIcmJ HFXyox47cj/txr837fBHLvAhdcx8yMZx4Jx31NTSMEi9q1ojF5q14Ru/wih/2Zf9p1NTU03K u6L8o3R//9k= --------------050505000205090501070207-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23205 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:03:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:03:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23564 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 18:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 18:03:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kVZL-0003Fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:34:51 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kVZK-0003Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:34:50 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 9855 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 17:56:46 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-2.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 17:56:46 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:04:31 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: loops Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:48:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rick, You are absolutely correct with your 3db increase for a doubling of the area. I didn't account for the doubling of the Rac in the conductor. The loss ground loss may increase in proportion to the width of the loop but this factor is included in the measured Rac for the smaller loop and therefore the loop size doubling would be close to a 3db gain. Bill A -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 4:35 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: loops Hello Bill, >>So based on that a 10m high and 100m long loop should perform as well 32m >>high square loop. Doubling the length of a long&low loop should increase >>the radiation resistance by 4 and the loss resistance by 2, resulting in an >>overal gain of 2 (= 3dB). Does the above fit with your math ? > >I'm with you except that a gain of 2 would translate to a 6db increase. Quadrupling the radiation resistance will give a 6dB gain. But at the same time the loss resistance is also doubled, what will inflict a 3dB loss. So overall gain is 'only' 3dB. Eg : Assume you gave a loop with a radiation resistance of 1 milli-Ohm and a loss of 5 Ohm. Putting 400 W into this loop will result in 8.94 A loop current, the radiated power will be 80 mW (ignoring loop gain for simplicity). Doublong the loop length will increase the radiation resistance to 4 milli-Ohm and the loss resistance to 10 Ohm. With 400 W th loop current will now be 6.32 A and the radiated power will be 160mW. This is a 3dB increase. The above assumes (simplifies) that the only losses will be 'copper loss'. 73, Rik ON7YD ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25600 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 16:27:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 16:27:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24688 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 16:27:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 16:27:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kU87-00032O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kU86-00032G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:02:38 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2BGNuvY131288 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:23:56 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020311171928.3aefc8e2@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:19:28 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Trees as antenna supports In-reply-to: <0GST00CEDGXMWI@mtaout01.icomcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just a remark about slingshots / catapults : The larger models are considered as arms (at least here in Belgium, believe also in some US-states), so be carefull using these on public property ! 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26625 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 16:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 16:15:04 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10644 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 16:15:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 16:15:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kTv8-0002xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:49:14 +0000 Received: from smtp.comcast.net ([24.153.64.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kTv5-0002xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:49:12 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (pcp01445478pcs.lebnon01.pa.comcast.net [68.83.64.41]) by mtaout01.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built Feb 6 2002)) with SMTP id <0GST00CEBGXMWI@mtaout01.icomcast.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:10:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:09:09 -0500 From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Trees as antenna supports To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <0GST00CEDGXMWI@mtaout01.icomcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Another proponent of the fishing-rod method. It does presuppose at least some wasted youth shivering on river-banks, or at least some patience as one learns how to cast. My favourite is a 7ft. glass rod (cheapy from a 'junque' market), 10lb. monofil and a 2oz. weight. (SI, who?). With practice 70' or 80' clearances are possible; got a few ridiculous things that high up in the copious Tulip Poplars with which I am cursed/blessed. Do it now before the leaves appear. Spray-paint the bobs (buy many!) white; yellow, orange or red tend to disappear in dead-leaf territory. Gently jiggling or back-and-forth with the rod is usually all it takes to get a reluctant cast to eventually reach ground. Don't be afraid to 'cut your losses' and accept losing line and weight if they get stuck; they're cheap, and as Tom pointed out you do not want to be in the way of a lump of elastically-powered lead - they used to fight wars like that . . . I take a little collapsible rod ($14.99 from K-mart) with me on DX- peditions; it is somewhat lighter, packs more easily, and is almost as effective as seven sections of Rohn 25. Never mind anything else, holding a rod simply reminds me that all I've ever wanted to be in life is a lock-keeper on the Thames. Cheers, Steve W3EEE 3/11/2002 2:43:23 PM, "HighGain" wrote: >Here is a far better way to get high above 100 ft or more. I know from >experience, I have several trees as supports. Use a small fishing rod, they >are accurate. And you can get higher than 100 foot or 30 mtrs with this >arrangement ;-) forget about bows and arrows hahahaha. > >Regards & Best Wishes >Roy >MM0LOS > >> Dear LFers >> >> Just a few more words of advice to the would-be Robin Hoods or Davids >> (as in vs. Goliath) amongst us. >> >> 1) Use a proper lead weight with an eye in it instead of a steel nut. >> These are obtainable along with the catapult in any angling shop and are >> available in various weights. I use a 6 or 8 ozs one. >> >> 2) Use the fluorescent orange coloured mono-filament nylon line. Much >> easier to see when it is hanging down through the branches. >> >> 3) If the weight doesn't reach the ground on the other side of the tree, >> don't immediately pull it back but ease it back and forth to try and >> bring it down. >> >> 4) If that doesn't work, pull it back SLOWLY. If you do it fast, the >> line will wrap itself around a branch and you will never get it down. >> Do not pull with all your might as you stand a good chance of injuring >> yourself as the weight flies towards you. (I speak from experience!) >> >> 5) Once you have the mono-filament across the highest point, use it to >> pull back some thin cord and then use this to pull across the rope >> halyard. Doing it in two stages lessens the risk of breaking the thin >> nylon. I use polypropylene for halyards BUT I would think twice about >> using polyprop for guying masts as it is attacked by UV and deteriorates >> with age. >> >> >> - I've not managed to get a halyard higher than 60 ft with a catapult, >> mainly due to the poor elasticity of the synthetic rubber used as >> previously noted. Anyone know of a good source of bows and arrows in UK? >> >> 73, Tom G3OLB >> >> > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26498 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 15:35:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 15:35:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29791 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 15:35:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 15:35:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kTIG-0002rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:09:04 +0000 Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kTIF-0002rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:09:03 +0000 Received: (qmail 28380 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 15:30:52 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.84.247.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.84.247) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 15:30:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020311102055.006a1124@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:20:55 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: TA In-reply-to: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Had no luck Mal but willing to listen again when CONDX allow. 73 and thanks, John W1JHJ At 19:58 3/8/02 +0000, you wrote: >Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the >USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS >60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday >night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband >if possible. Other speeds available if necessary. >73 de Mal/G3KEV Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10723 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 14:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 14:48:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 13989 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 14:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 14:48:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kSXS-0002jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:20:42 +0000 Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kSXR-0002jb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:20:41 +0000 Received: from roy ([80.1.15.109]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020311144231.XBVL10364.mta3-svc.virgin.net@roy> for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:42:31 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c1c90b$19058560$6d0f0150@roy> From: "HighGain" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Trees as antenna supports Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:43:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Here is a far better way to get high above 100 ft or more. I know from experience, I have several trees as supports. Use a small fishing rod, they are accurate. And you can get higher than 100 foot or 30 mtrs with this arrangement ;-) forget about bows and arrows hahahaha. Regards & Best Wishes Roy MM0LOS > Dear LFers > > Just a few more words of advice to the would-be Robin Hoods or Davids > (as in vs. Goliath) amongst us. > > 1) Use a proper lead weight with an eye in it instead of a steel nut. > These are obtainable along with the catapult in any angling shop and are > available in various weights. I use a 6 or 8 ozs one. > > 2) Use the fluorescent orange coloured mono-filament nylon line. Much > easier to see when it is hanging down through the branches. > > 3) If the weight doesn't reach the ground on the other side of the tree, > don't immediately pull it back but ease it back and forth to try and > bring it down. > > 4) If that doesn't work, pull it back SLOWLY. If you do it fast, the > line will wrap itself around a branch and you will never get it down. > Do not pull with all your might as you stand a good chance of injuring > yourself as the weight flies towards you. (I speak from experience!) > > 5) Once you have the mono-filament across the highest point, use it to > pull back some thin cord and then use this to pull across the rope > halyard. Doing it in two stages lessens the risk of breaking the thin > nylon. I use polypropylene for halyards BUT I would think twice about > using polyprop for guying masts as it is attacked by UV and deteriorates > with age. > > > - I've not managed to get a halyard higher than 60 ft with a catapult, > mainly due to the poor elasticity of the synthetic rubber used as > previously noted. Anyone know of a good source of bows and arrows in UK? > > 73, Tom G3OLB > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15435 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 13:48:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 13:48:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9350 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 13:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 13:48:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kRcT-0002ZQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:21:49 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kRcS-0002ZL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:21:48 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:43:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8CB4AA.AB7A9A0D@att.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:44:10 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C89675D.7B76792E@att.net> <3C8A262C.E1F7BB22@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, John and I both were seeing a broken signal on the same frequency Saturday during your transmission. We both had moderate QRN that night. If that was your signal I believe it would have been Q5 without the QRN. Dexter gii3kev wrote: > Thanks Dexter. I will tx as specified but if you have a storm blow up, > bad qrn > etc pse send an email and I will throw the big switch. I will also be > listening and working on 7025 khz, you can call me there. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12585 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 12:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 12:27:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 28717 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 12:27:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 12:27:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kQLk-0002Mq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:00:28 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kQLi-0002Ml-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:00:27 +0000 Received: from host62-7-46-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.46.192] helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16kOoj-0004mW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:22:17 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c1c8f7$6245bf60$c02e073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for March 2002 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:21:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I stopped posting spots when the activity dropped off, but the conditions were so good this weekend and activity seemed to have perked up a bit. So I thought you might like to see who you 'could' have worked ( Hi ). Day time conditions seem to continue to be good at the expense of the long path night-time conditions. I suspect that similar good inter-EU propagation will be available next weekend (16th / 17th ), as we have had a number of minor flares, and some coronal hole events that seem to be keeping the daytime 'skywave' levels up by about 10dB over normal. (Regular details, CFH and DCF39 plots, posted to my web site, see below) The following archive is from my local DX Cluster GB7DXM 136.6 DK6NI 10-Mar-2002 1616Z cq 136.7 DL3FDO 10-Mar-2002 1051Z clg OK1MRS 136.7 DK6NI 10-Mar-2002 1048Z 136.7 IK5ZPV 10-Mar-2002 1046Z cq 137.7 OM2TW 10-Mar-2002 0939Z cq qrss 136.4 DK7SU 10-Mar-2002 0833Z cq 137.7 M0BMU 9-Mar-2002 1730Z in QRSS3 - loud! 136.5 G3KAU 9-Mar-2002 1637Z with 1,5 kW, qso F6BWO 137.7 G3YXM 9-Mar-2002 0956Z in DFCW 137.0 OK1FIG 9-Mar-2002 0933Z 136.3 G3KEV 9-Mar-2002 0930Z cq 137.0 G3YXM 9-Mar-2002 0920Z wid OH1TN 136.6 ON6ND 7-Mar-2002 1705Z with g3kev 136.5 DK8KW 4-Mar-2002 1909Z clg g3aqc 135.9 DK5PT 4-Mar-2002 1902Z wid dl3fdo 137.7 SOMEONE 4-Mar-2002 1810Z in QRSS3, "T-Copy" 137.7 DK8KW 3-Mar-2002 1827Z cq in HELL 136.4 DK5PT 3-Mar-2002 1819Z in qso G3KEV 137.4 DK8KW 3-Mar-2002 1750Z cq in PSK31 137.4 DK8KW 3-Mar-2002 1740Z PSK31 136.5 DK6NI 3-Mar-2002 1721Z clg DJ9IE 136.5 DJ9IE 3-Mar-2002 1720Z cq 136.6 M0BMU 3-Mar-2002 1635Z 136.5 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2002 1634Z (519) es DL2NDO (319) 136.5 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2002 1632Z clg DL2NDO 136.5 DK8KW 3-Mar-2002 1631Z clg DL2NDO 136.4 DJ9IE 3-Mar-2002 1606Z clg DL2NDO 136.4 DL2NDO 3-Mar-2002 1604Z 136.5 G3YXM 3-Mar-2002 1554Z (419) wid g4cnn (not audible 136.6 DK7SU 3-Mar-2002 1427Z clg HB9DFQ 136.4 HB9DFQ 3-Mar-2002 1416Z clg OK1DTN 136.4 DK6NI 3-Mar-2002 1415Z clg OK1DTN 136.7 HB9DFQ 3-Mar-2002 1408Z cq 136.4 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2002 1407Z cq 137.7 F6CWA 3-Mar-2002 1357Z are you QRV in QRSS? 136.5 G3KEV 3-Mar-2002 1349Z CQ 136.3 G3KEV 3-Mar-2002 1349Z cq, i cq on 136.8 136.3 G3KEV 3-Mar-2002 1335Z cq 136.3 M0BMU 3-Mar-2002 1036Z in qso F6BWO 519/519 136.7 DK6NI 3-Mar-2002 1012Z cq 136.5 G3KEV 3-Mar-2002 0953Z 136.5 F6CWA 3-Mar-2002 0951Z listen 136.5 and 7.020 136.5 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2002 0949Z cq 136.7 HB9DFQ 3-Mar-2002 0948Z cq 136.3 HB9ASB 3-Mar-2002 0926Z QSX 3555.0 sri Call ASB 136.3 HB9ABS 3-Mar-2002 0925Z QSX 3555.0 136.5 F6CWA 3-Mar-2002 0926Z CQ 136.3 HB9ABS 3-Mar-2002 0918Z 137.7 DF6NM 2-Mar-2002 1021Z in slow-HELL with me (QRSS3) 136.5 OK1DTN 2-Mar-2002 1005Z G3NYK de GB7MRS 11-Mar-2002 1202Z > There do seem to be some different calls out there....note DK6NI, HB9DFQ, DL2NDO. It does seem that the packet cluster does not seem to get so many 'spurious' posting as the web site. Happy Hunting Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk (click on propagation and then latest reports.....almost daily update......also links via a 'pop-up' on Dave's G3YXM Site ) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 26490 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 10:18:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 10:18:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 4048 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 10:18:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 10:18:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kOHZ-00021T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:48:01 +0000 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kOHY-00021O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:48:01 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16kMkX-0005eo-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:09:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:11:49 +0000 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Trees as antenna supports MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LFers Just a few more words of advice to the would-be Robin Hoods or Davids (as in vs. Goliath) amongst us. 1) Use a proper lead weight with an eye in it instead of a steel nut. These are obtainable along with the catapult in any angling shop and are available in various weights. I use a 6 or 8 ozs one. 2) Use the fluorescent orange coloured mono-filament nylon line. Much easier to see when it is hanging down through the branches. 3) If the weight doesn't reach the ground on the other side of the tree, don't immediately pull it back but ease it back and forth to try and bring it down. 4) If that doesn't work, pull it back SLOWLY. If you do it fast, the line will wrap itself around a branch and you will never get it down. Do not pull with all your might as you stand a good chance of injuring yourself as the weight flies towards you. (I speak from experience!) 5) Once you have the mono-filament across the highest point, use it to pull back some thin cord and then use this to pull across the rope halyard. Doing it in two stages lessens the risk of breaking the thin nylon. I use polypropylene for halyards BUT I would think twice about using polyprop for guying masts as it is attacked by UV and deteriorates with age. - I've not managed to get a halyard higher than 60 ft with a catapult, mainly due to the poor elasticity of the synthetic rubber used as previously noted. Anyone know of a good source of bows and arrows in UK? 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19859 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 08:54:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 08:54:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20903 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2002 08:54:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 08:54:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kMsR-0001os-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:17:59 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16kMsQ-0001on-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:17:58 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2B8dOvY121160 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:39:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020311093458.2d17e36a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:34:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: loops In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Bill, >>So based on that a 10m high and 100m long loop should perform as well 32m >>high square loop. Doubling the length of a long&low loop should increase >>the radiation resistance by 4 and the loss resistance by 2, resulting in an >>overal gain of 2 (= 3dB). Does the above fit with your math ? > >I'm with you except that a gain of 2 would translate to a 6db increase. Quadrupling the radiation resistance will give a 6dB gain. But at the same time the loss resistance is also doubled, what will inflict a 3dB loss. So overall gain is 'only' 3dB. Eg : Assume you gave a loop with a radiation resistance of 1 milli-Ohm and a loss of 5 Ohm. Putting 400 W into this loop will result in 8.94 A loop current, the radiated power will be 80 mW (ignoring loop gain for simplicity). Doublong the loop length will increase the radiation resistance to 4 milli-Ohm and the loss resistance to 10 Ohm. With 400 W th loop current will now be 6.32 A and the radiated power will be 160mW. This is a 3dB increase. The above assumes (simplifies) that the only losses will be 'copper loss'. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15673 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 23:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 23:25:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 26937 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 23:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 23:25:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jrfu-0006wB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:58:58 +0000 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jrft-0006w6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:58:57 +0000 Received: from [66.189.48.230] (HELO johncellarnew) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.3) with SMTP id 19933962 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:20:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c1c7c1$110d89c0$0500a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: 135.922 Tonight Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:20:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm running screen captures of the 135.922 region tonight. No signals seen as of 2315. The results are posted every 15 minutes at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12861 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2170 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 23:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 23:19:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jrZk-0006vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:52:36 +0000 Received: from mail.sitestar.net.234.160.205.in-addr.arpa ([205.160.234.8] helo=mail2.sitestar.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jrZj-0006vS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:52:35 +0000 Received: from sitestar.net [216.8.6.32] by mail2.sitestar.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A821636E0152; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <3C8A9837.11886121@sitestar.net> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:18:15 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re. Loops References: <16a.9f5fd1c.29ba58a6@aol.com> <3C89165E.D916DDDB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Declude-Sender: ryeg@sitestar.net [216.8.6.32] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Surgical Rubber Tubing seems to work good and is what the commercial "sling shots" use here in the states. Rye K9LCJ gii3kev wrote: > WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > > > W. Ashlock writes: > > << ...anything is possible (including nailing the neighbors; so be careful!). > > >> > > > > But Bill--that's half the fun of using the archery method! (grin) > > > > You know, we could be in for a big bow-and-arrow versus catapult controversy > > here. > > How about a cross bow, that might be even better. The cannon seems more popular > in West Virginia. It depends where you live and what you can get hold of to > launch a rope over these high trees. Good catapults are hard to get these days, > especially good flexible elastic or rubber. Most synthetic rubber substances > these days do not have the elasticity. Years ago old bicycle inner tubes made > good catapults but modern tubes only stretch a couple of inches. > Does anyone have any ideas of a source of good elastic etc. > With the bow I suppose the arrow is the secret, it needs a good heavy tip to > carry it over the trees. > G3KEV > > > > > > > It would be like having to choose whether one is on the side of Robin Hood or > > the Sheriff of Nottingham. > > > > 73, > > John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14772 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 22:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 22:17:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13883 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 22:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 22:17:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jqde-0006jW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:34 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jqdd-0006jR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:34 +0000 Received: from host213-1-62-132.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.62.132] helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16jp6j-000708-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:14:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1c7b7$c3e398a0$0e5f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: TA....Solar activity Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:12:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys, its probably missed the spot, and it may make things worse(!!) but there was an M2.7 x-ray flare at 1835z to 2000z (period above M1.0 level) and there is another one just peaking at about 2200z at about M1.0. The problem is these will only affect a path on daylight, and I think the mid- atlantic point would be going into darkness at about 2000z. Also CFH is audible on 137.0 FSK but is not very strong yet. I will continue to monitor and record that for comparison. The plot will be posted to my web site tomorrow. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com http://www.alan.melia.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2230 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 19:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 19:20:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8243 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 19:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 19:20:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jnqq-0006R4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:54:00 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jnqp-0006Qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:53:59 +0000 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-119.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.119] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jm8A-0001Hv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:47 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8A5EBC.FE0DBD15@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:13:01 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3.0.3.32.20020309114007.015bff0c@pop.netzero.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Jonathan Jesse wrote:

Count me in pending QRN and XYL's plans :)

Jon W1JHJ

At 19:58 3/8/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the
>USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS
>60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday
>night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband
>if possible. Other speeds available if necessary.
>73 de Mal/G3KEV

Thanks Jon and hope you can hear/see me and thanks to all the other 11 USA stations that will be listening if condx permit. We had some snow earlier but now stopped but the antenna remains stable so should not be a problem from this end. We just need some reasonable propogation. I will start around 2300 utc. Dexter W4DEX can see me during early afternoon so you W1/2 boys should see/hear me all the time !!!!!
Bill/VE1ZZ although not too active this past winter was able to see me also early afternoon.
Pse listen/transmit on 7025 khz as well. I can work  QSK/XBAND or what ever is required.
On 7 mhz 3 elements abt 6 db or 1600 watts erp, if you dont hear me on 136 try 7 mhz for a QSO.
73 and tnx to all interested in TA.
De Mal/G3KEV
 
 

Jon
W1JHJ
Plymouth, MA
FN41qw
http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm
----------------------------------------------------
Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today
Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7498 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 18:43:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 18:43:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21897 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 18:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 18:43:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jnE4-0006LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:13:56 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jnE3-0006LO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:13:55 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 1749 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 18:35:47 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-4.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 18:35:47 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:43:41 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Re. Loops Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:27:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike >For the bottom wire of my 73kHz loop, I used 3-core mains flex at 5ft above >ground. My wife used it as a washing line! While transmitting, how long did it take for the closes to dry? Bill ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8414 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 16:44:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 16:44:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25561 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 16:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 16:44:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jlRN-00069K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:33 +0000 Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jlRM-00069F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:33 +0000 Received: (qmail 14664 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 16:41:24 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.88.43.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.88.43) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 16:41:24 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20020309114007.015bff0c@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:40:07 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: TA In-reply-to: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Count me in pending QRN and XYL's plans :) Jon W1JHJ At 19:58 3/8/02 +0000, you wrote: >Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the >USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS >60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday >night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband >if possible. Other speeds available if necessary. >73 de Mal/G3KEV Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2546 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:59:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:59:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4458 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:59:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jkjE-00063K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:33:56 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jkjD-00063F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:33:55 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16jjCL-0002lO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:55:53 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jjCK-0006T2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:55:52 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309154824.00ac6018@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:51:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: some signals needed In-reply-to: <16iFr7-1q8fdAC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:23 05/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hello Group, > > >there will be a meeting with young people on Saturday next weekend. >Location is Goslar near Hannover(Germany). The subject is to build a very >simple LF-RX in a couple of hours. At 17:00 to 18.00 UTC(03.08.2002) we >will try to listen for your signals. Please send in qrss3- or dfcw-mode or >hell on the LF band. The RX is specified to 137,7kHz +/- 50 Hz. So >jason92-mode are also welcome but we can't tune below 137,650 kHz. Because >of using a small RX-active-antenna, no chance will be given for response. >Thank you in advance for any signal beaconing. > >73 es tnx Bernd, DF8ZR > > Dear Bernd, LF group, I hope to put out a QRSS3 signal for you somewhere in the 137.65 - 137.75 kHz range, starting around 1700, assuming I get home in time, and the wind has not blown the antenna down again! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25011 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15596 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2S-0005u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2R-0005u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:44 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-64.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.64] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jiJo-0002HL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:59:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8A262C.E1F7BB22@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:11:40 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C89675D.7B76792E@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" wrote: > Mal, > > As usual I'm interested and will listen anytime the QRN allows. I will > be looking for you starting 2300 Saturday. My local sunset is now 2330 > UTC but I have seen your signal while the sun was still shinning through > my shack window. I'll upload screen shots at frequent intervals at: Thanks Dexter. I will tx as specified but if you have a storm blow up, bad qrn etc pse send an email and I will throw the big switch. I will also be listening and working on 7025 khz, you can call me there. > > > http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135KHz.jpg > > 73, > Dexter > > gii3kev wrote: > > > > Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the > > USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS > > 60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday > > night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband > > if possible. Other speeds available if necessary. > > 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28941 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16660 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2O-0005u0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2N-0005tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:39 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-64.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.64] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jiJi-0002HB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:59:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8A2626.91570A5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:11:34 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This particular loop is now hoisted into its final position between 2 high beech trees, a convenient place although I would like it to be further away from the vertical/inv L system. Top horizontal totally in the clear, bottom horiz 6 ft above ground, each vertical leg about 10 feet or more clear of tree trunks and branches. Loop is symetrical and rectangular 124 ft horiz x 40 ft vert, area = 4960 sq ft. Inductance measured = 173 uH Resonant F measured = 3065 khz Feed point bottom right corner. Feed 75 ohm coax, about 100 ft long, distance f rom right bottom corner to shack rx. ----------------- First qso heard on loop was G6RO and EI3CZ signals slightly down compared to main vertical system but Q5, good considering the loop is not resonant yet on 136 khz, looks promising, but it is a fair sized loop, although small relative to 136 khz. Both stations not too far away. EI3CZ- 410 Km from me G6RO- 115 Km ------------------ The next step is deciding what method to use to resonate and match the loop to 50/75 ohms All my equip is designed for 50/75 ohms. Series or parallel, transformer or capicator networks that will handle the power. I will have to do some research and calculations and experimentation, I will optimise first on rx and tx low power. I will let those interested know the results, quite a lot of interest from the USA where others are experimenting along the same lines as myself. Its snowing at the present so just got the loop up in time !! Temp abt 9 c (warm snow) 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24784 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16582 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 15:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 15:15:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2Y-0005uE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:50 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jk2X-0005u9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:49:49 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-64.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.64] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jiJu-0002HW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:59:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8A2632.70D3C332@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:11:46 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: TA References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Ashlock,William" wrote: > Mal, > > >Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the > >USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. > > Now would that TX be on the old and aging 120ft vertical or on the new loop > antenna? Might perk up my RX interest if it would be the loop. Bill its going to be the vertical. At UK rf power levels trying to get 1w erp radiated the matching components, especially capacitors are going to be a problem. Look out for me tonight on 135.922 khz approx, plus or minus in case others are also around the freq. 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > Bill in the USA. > > ********************************************************************* > This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for > the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus > Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use > local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. > ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12457 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 13:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 13:45:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 13727 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 13:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 13:45:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jiee-0005lW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:21:04 +0000 Received: from mail1.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jied-0005l3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:21:03 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d25.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.224]) by mail1.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g29Dgvb90062 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:42:57 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Re. Loops Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:43:32 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000801c1c747$e05ed000$466a68d5@oemcomputer> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good idea there Mike. Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of mike.dennison Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 2:53 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re. Loops For the bottom wire of my 73kHz loop, I used 3-core mains flex at 5ft above ground. My wife used it as a washing line! Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5501 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 13:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 13:25:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 694 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 13:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 13:24:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jiH5-0005gb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:56:43 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jiH4-0005gW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:56:42 +0000 Received: from abc (bts-0333.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.49.77]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id g29DIbt00746 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:18:38 GMT Message-ID: <000101c1c76c$d35f0620$4d31f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16fxYQ-0qO5h2C@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: Infos obout lf qrp Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:05:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, > I want to start with a Converter for rx. > > I have a home made modified NorCal 40A for the 40m band. Is it possible to made > a converter for 136khz to 7,0 Mhz? > > For example my IC 706 are "free", when I receive with PC the lf frequenz, or > second example, the NorCal is free, when I receive with the IC 706 on 7,0 Mhz. 1) You might try www.sounds-good.co.uk/datong and get the circuit of the Datong convertor as a starting point from which to produce a version for 7 MHz output. 2) Costas Krallis SV1XV (sv1xv@eexi.gr) has a home built VLF converter of similar design. It uses a S042P with a 4 MHz crystal and a 4 MHz tuned circuit at the output. The input goes through a lowpass filter, with a cut-off frequency near 130 kHz. 3) RSGB LF Experimenter's Handbook is worth looking at. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9099 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 09:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 09:01:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25986 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 09:01:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 09:01:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16je6b-0005Bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +0000 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16je6a-0005Bd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:29:36 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.106.70]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020309085133.FPQJ9422.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:51:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c1c747$e05ed000$466a68d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re. Loops Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:53:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill A wrote: > > ......so for tranmitting it would seem to be a good idea to have a bottom > wire on, or in the ground. > The problem is that the soil losses become fairly large. Think of the loop > wire with a huge donut-like AC magnetic field surrounding it. This field > doesn't seem to like the composition of the ground, which in effect, adds > series resistance to the loop circuit. I find the best compromise in > reduction of soil loss Vs maximizing the loop area by keeping the lower > conductor at least 5ft above ground. This distance could vary depending on > the soil type. The soil here in the Boston area, is composed of at least 60% > sand, covered by a thin layer of top soil. > >This would have the added advantage of making it possible to use a very > thick or multiple thick >wires for this part of the loop thus reducing the > total loss resistance by almost 50%, with a > >consequent considerable increase in efficiency. For the bottom wire of my 73kHz loop, I used 3-core mains flex at 5ft above ground. My wife used it as a washing line! Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19679 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 02:09:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 02:09:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 28436 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 02:09:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 02:09:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXnT-0004Tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:45:27 +0000 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXnS-0004Tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:45:26 +0000 Received: from cs2416229-173.houston.rr.com ([24.162.29.173] helo=wia1) by public2.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16jVZO-0007Bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:22:46 +0000 From: "Wireless Industry Association" To: RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG Subject: LF: BEST HF AMPLIFIER REVIEWS EVER - HAM RADIO MARKET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:06:57 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: New Page 1

- AMERITRON'S AL-800H POWERHOUSE AMP REVIEWED - CLICK THROUGH

Ham Radio Market

"The wonderful amplifier reviews at Ham Radio Market are the best ever published in Amateur Radio."

 

 

Wireless Industry Association Member

Click Here to make sure a Ham friend or associate knows about the great Ham Radio Market. Add the email address to our list.

If you are not a HAM or not involved in Ham Radio and wish not to receive information about the Ham Radio Market - please Click Here to be removed from future mailings.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20930 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:52:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:52:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 7957 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXWe-0004PL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:28:04 +0000 Received: from cs2416229-173.houston.rr.com ([24.162.29.173] helo=wia1) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXWd-0004Oh-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:28:03 +0000 From: "Wireless Industry Association" To: RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG Subject: LF: BEST HF AMPLIFIER REVIEWS EVER - HAM RADIO MARKET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:49:34 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: New Page 1

- AMERITRON'S AL-800H POWERHOUSE AMP REVIEWED - CLICK THROUGH

Ham Radio Market

"The wonderful amplifier reviews at Ham Radio Market are the best ever published in Amateur Radio."

 

 

Wireless Industry Association Member

Click Here to make sure a Ham friend or associate knows about the great Ham Radio Market. Add the email address to our list.

If you are not a HAM or not involved in Ham Radio and wish not to receive information about the Ham Radio Market - please Click Here to be removed from future mailings.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23466 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:50:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 20050 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:50:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:50:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXUe-0004OU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:26:00 +0000 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.202]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXUd-0004OP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:25:59 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d20.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.219]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g291lit96948; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:47:44 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Cc: "Post Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: Loop transformer ferrites??? Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:48:13 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anyone tried the 1-1/8th inch long Steward ferrite beads in their loop transformer yet??? I have 2 of them sitting here right now and am wondering what kind of power they are going to handle. Thanks es 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5337 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:39:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:39:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29583 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 01:39:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 01:39:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXKK-0004M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:15:20 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jXKJ-0004Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:15:19 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:37:13 -0500 Message-ID: <3C89675D.7B76792E@att.net> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:37:33 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre, W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA References: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, As usual I'm interested and will listen anytime the QRN allows. I will be looking for you starting 2300 Saturday. My local sunset is now 2330 UTC but I have seen your signal while the sun was still shinning through my shack window. I'll upload screen shots at frequent intervals at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135KHz.jpg 73, Dexter gii3kev wrote: > > Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the > USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS > 60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday > night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband > if possible. Other speeds available if necessary. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7361 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 00:14:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 00:14:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2596 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 00:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 00:14:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jVzx-0004BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:50:13 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jVzx-0004BT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:50:13 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 31388 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 00:12:10 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-11.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 00:12:10 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: TA Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:03:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the >USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. Now would that TX be on the old and aging 120ft vertical or on the new loop antenna? Might perk up my RX interest if it would be the loop. Bill in the USA. ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23930 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 00:05:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 00:05:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18093 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2002 00:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2002 00:05:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jVna-000499-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:37:26 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jVnZ-000494-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:37:25 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 3198 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 23:59:23 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 23:59:23 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:07:18 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loop Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >I have now installed a loop each vert leg 50 ft approx x each horiz 105 >ft =5250 sq ft. What are you using for a conductor? >Series feed seems to be popular in the USA and a toroid matching transformer. Works for me! If this is also to be a TX loop I would very much appreciate your feedback on the loop Rac and current that you acheive with this setup. >I use 50 or 70 ohm coax so have to match accordingly for my rx/tx. >So far connected up unresonated, it is poor as expected compared with my >resonant vertical. Yes, very poor. Your loop reactance of ~170 ohms is in series with an Rac for the conductor of ~2 ohms. That's about an 85x loss! For TX at your power levels the resonont capcitors will be the main challenge. At 1w you can use plain old 500v micas. >The loop is located about 50 ft away from the vertical and its >associated ground radial system and because of the close proximity I >might not be able to do a meaninful comparison test. I do not intend to >dismantle the vertical because it works so well. Just disconnect the lead to the transmitter so it is out of resonance. Also, take the loop out of resonance when going back to the vertical. I don't expect much interaction. >I can work and hear all the activity on 136 khz, so apart from some fun I do not need another >antenna. I will resonate it on 136 khz and even with the interaction see how received signals compare. My TX loops work rather poorly as RX loops because they pick up too much house-generated crud. Have fun! Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19627 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:38:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:38:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8556 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 21:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 21:38:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jTWn-0003oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:11:57 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jTWl-0003oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:11:56 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewN50Ku1ACyz9RBqcfG0gy/cUIwllXUciXQ=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GVELSPL3; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:32:46 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:29:02 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re. Loops Message-ID: <20020308.163002.-736491.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh Oh a punkin chunkin contest Bob On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:10:46 EST WarmSpgs@aol.com writes: >W. Ashlock writes: ><< ...anything is possible (including nailing the neighbors; so be >careful!). >>> > >But Bill--that's half the fun of using the archery method! (grin) > >You know, we could be in for a big bow-and-arrow versus catapult >controversy >here. > >It would be like having to choose whether one is on the side of Robin >Hood or >the Sheriff of Nottingham. > >73, >John KD4IDY > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29294 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:38:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:38:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 21583 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jSd1-0003ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:14:19 +0000 Received: from ananke4.qdnet.pl ([195.116.13.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jScz-0003cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:14:18 +0000 Received: from tt ([212.244.254.114]) by ananke4.qdnet.pl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:35:05 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c1c6e0$6651dee0$1400000a@tt> From: "Richard S Hill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C75434F.5443D1B2@netscapeonline.co.uk><5.1.0.14.0.20020223103101.009f2b30@POP3.freeler.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20020223151941.00c84aa0@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Odp: LF: Baird! (off topic) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:32:36 +0100 Organization: translations@qdnet.pl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2002 20:35:07.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBEB79B0:01C1C6E0] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yeah thanks Rob, just spent a week exploring those site - absolutely grat, thanks for the links. It has even encouraged me to renew my TV DXing and my callsign in Poland ! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Gill To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: Baird! (off topic) > Richard, > > The Narrow Bandwith TV Association is a good place to start: > http://www.nbtv.wyenet.co.uk/ > > or via the mirror on the BATC web site: http://www.batc.org.uk/index.htm > > A slight, further, diversion to http://www.dfm.dircon.co.uk/index.htm leads > to some interesting items on use of modern techniques to recover early > 30-line mechanically scanned TV recordings. > > An interesting diversion when local QRM becomes unbearable! > > 73 > Rob > ................ > > At 13:26 23/02/02 +0100, you wrote: > >>>SNIP. Another example of this is Victor G3SDQ who is currently trying > >>>to work me on 136 from Leyton who has just built himself a 625 to 35 > >>>line converter so he can watch his favourite programmes on a Baird TV. > >>> > >>>Does anyone know if the info about this is on the net somewhere - could > >>>be interesting reading! > >>> > >>>Richard ex G6GGE > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6133 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:37:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21263 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:37:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jSc4-0003cO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:13:20 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jSc3-0003cJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:13:19 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-232.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.232] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jQtS-0001G0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:23:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8917E5.94D4E799@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:58:29 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: TA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has the TA tests fizzled out or is anyone still interested across in the USA. I would TX over this weekend if anyone was listening/watching. QRS 60 sec dot and around 135.922 khz from about 2300 - 0100 utc on Saturday night (09- Mar-2002), also listening/transmitting on 7025 khz for xband if possible. Other speeds available if necessary. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28308 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:37:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21248 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:37:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:37:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jSc1-0003cG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:13:17 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jSc1-0003cB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:13:17 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-232.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.232] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jQtO-0001FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:23:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3C89165E.D916DDDB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:58 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re. Loops References: <16a.9f5fd1c.29ba58a6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > W. Ashlock writes: > << ...anything is possible (including nailing the neighbors; so be careful!). > >> > > But Bill--that's half the fun of using the archery method! (grin) > > You know, we could be in for a big bow-and-arrow versus catapult controversy > here. How about a cross bow, that might be even better. The cannon seems more popular in West Virginia. It depends where you live and what you can get hold of to launch a rope over these high trees. Good catapults are hard to get these days, especially good flexible elastic or rubber. Most synthetic rubber substances these days do not have the elasticity. Years ago old bicycle inner tubes made good catapults but modern tubes only stretch a couple of inches. Does anyone have any ideas of a source of good elastic etc. With the bow I suppose the arrow is the secret, it needs a good heavy tip to carry it over the trees. G3KEV > > > It would be like having to choose whether one is on the side of Robin Hood or > the Sheriff of Nottingham. > > 73, > John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8823 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:07:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:07:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21753 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 20:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 20:07:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jS2K-0003UG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:36:24 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jS2J-0003UB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:36:23 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16jQVR-0002Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:58:21 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jQVP-0000DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:58:20 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308191310.02953708@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:54:26 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: loop In-reply-to: <3C890521.11CD9484@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF Group, At 18:38 08/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >...This first observation puts some doubt on some previous tests on Decca >sites with a small vertical in the vicinity of a large ground radial >system, where the small vertical was supposed to radiate better than the >main antenna... Actually, included in the the conclusions of the experiments I did at the Puckeridge Decca site was that the main Decca antenna was about 160 times more efficient as a radiator than the small vertical. I was putting less than 1W into the Decca mast, and about 300W into the small antenna; the levels had been calculated to produce the same radiated signals from both antennas, but the small antenna proved to be slightly more efficient than calculated, and the Decca mast slightly less efficient. So the signal strength from the small antenna was slightly higher. But the point was that the difference in signal strength was the same irrespective of the distance or direction over which it was received - effectively showing that both antennas had much the same radiation pattern. Incidentally, on receive, it was almost impossible to tell the difference between either antenna. There was no detectable interaction between the two antennas - I had arranged things so that the antenna not in use was de-tuned. I also tried transmitting into the small antenna while the big antenna was resonated, but the current in the big antenna was only a few mA even then, so there probably would not have been significant interaction even without de-tuning. However, the two antennas were 120m (ie 400feet) apart. Part of the reason for this was so that the small antenna would be off the Decca antenna ground system - it had it's own grounding consisting of 4 rods. With Mal's 50ft spacing, greater interaction would be expected - especially since in Mal's case, the dimensions of both the antennas are of the same order as the spacing between them. You can easily de-tune the antenna by shorting or open-circuiting the loading coils. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17905 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:46:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8145 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:46:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQnu-0003KC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:17:26 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQnt-0003K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:17:25 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-232.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.232] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16jP5H-0002mN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:27:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3C890521.11CD9484@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:38:25 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have now installed a loop each vert leg 50 ft approx x each horiz 105 ft =5250 sq ft Next stage is to resonate the loop. I have to decide where the feed point is going to be ie a bottom corner or a top corner or bottom middle or top middle, series or parallel feed. Series feed seems to be popular in the USA and a toroid matching transformer. I use 50 or 70 ohm coax so have to match accordingly for my rx/tx. So far connected up unresonated, it is poor as expected compared with my resonant vertical. A grounded quad loop is also a consideration, as an alternative to a closed loop with the bottom horiz leg about 6ft above ground. There is also some interaction with my vertical ground system, the loop is affected by the vertical ground radials but the vertical is not affected by the loop. This first observation puts some doubt on some previous tests on Decca sites with a small vertical in the vicinity of a large ground radial system, where the small vertical was supposed to radiate better than the main antenna. The loop is located about 50 ft away from the vertical and its associated ground radial system and because of the close proximity I might not be able to do a meaninful comparison test. I do not intend to dismantle the vertical because it works so well. I can work and hear all the activity on 136 khz, so apart from some fun I do not need another antenna. I will resonate it on 136 khz and even with the interaction see how received signals compare. 73 de MalG3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8986 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:27:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:27:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17882 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:27:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQYr-0003Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:01:53 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQYq-0003Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:01:52 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17803 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:23:49 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-16.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:23:49 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:31:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Re: loops Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:15:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, >What really looks interesting for a loop installation, according to the >math, is the effective power gain that can be achieved by stretching the >horizontal dimension. On my property I can make this 350ft (if it were >legal) because of this strange narrow "L" shape out back in the woods. The >effective power, then, increases 50x! Tried this for an hour at very low >power (don't tell the FCC), and it works! >What math do you use ? I'm using the equations out of the ARRL Antenna Book. >I dug up a formula for small loops (I suppose any ham-sized loop is 'small' >at 2.2km / 1.33mi wavelength) : >R = 320*Pi^4*A^2/L^4 , where R = radiation resistance in Ohm, A = loop area >and L = wavelength. >So based on that a 10m high and 100m long loop should perform as well 32m >high square loop. Doubling the length of a long&low loop should increase >the radiation resistance by 4 and the loss resistance by 2, resulting in an >overal gain of 2 (= 3dB). Does the above fit with your math ? I'm with you except that a gain of 2 would translate to a 6db increase. >I like the idea of an L-shaped loop ( I suppose you mean lazy-L, so the >loop is not straight in the vertical plane) as I presume that this will >reduce the sharp nulls in the radiation pattern. The "L" is the shape of my lot. The loop would be only across the 370ft (stright-line) portion. I don't think you can reduce the null in any way. A loop is a loop; can't modify the shape without reducing the field. >>My first TX loop article just appeared in the US Longwave Club's 'Lowdown' >>publication. The second is to follow next month. >Sounds interesting, is it available on the web? Not sure. Try the Crawley Club sight. If not there, I'll send you a copy. Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17235 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:15:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:15:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4761 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 18:15:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 18:15:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQMs-0003C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:49:30 +0000 Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.106]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jQMr-0003Bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:49:29 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.16a.9f5fd1c (4240) for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <16a.9f5fd1c.29ba58a6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:10:46 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re. Loops To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: W. Ashlock writes: << ...anything is possible (including nailing the neighbors; so be careful!). >> But Bill--that's half the fun of using the archery method! (grin) You know, we could be in for a big bow-and-arrow versus catapult controversy here. It would be like having to choose whether one is on the side of Robin Hood or the Sheriff of Nottingham. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20763 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 17:47:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 17:47:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20505 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 17:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 17:47:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jPro-00036O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:17:24 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jPrn-00036J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:17:23 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 351 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 17:39:19 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-8.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 17:39:19 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:47:14 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re. Loops Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:31:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, > ......so for tranmitting it would seem to be a good idea to have a bottom wire on, or in the ground. The problem is that the soil losses become fairly large. Think of the loop wire with a huge donut-like AC magnetic field surrounding it. This field doesn't seem to like the composition of the ground, which in effect, adds series resistance to the loop circuit. I find the best compromise in reduction of soil loss Vs maximizing the loop area by keeping the lower conductor at least 5ft above ground. This distance could vary depending on the soil type. The soil here in the Boston area, is composed of at least 60% sand, covered by a thin layer of top soil. >This would have the added advantage of making it possible to use a very thick or multiple thick >wires for this part of the loop thus reducing the total loss resistance by almost 50%, with a >consequent considerable increase in efficiency. You can use multiple paralleled conductors on any portion, or all, of the loop. These conductors must be separated by about and inch to keep the Proximity Effect to a minimum. Forget about twisting these together as you will find almost no reduction in Rac with the added wire. >I can also recomend a bow and arrow for launching wires over trees,although I hav'nt reached 150 feet. Think big! Just a year ago I was in the home-brew bow and arrow, kite string, funk. Was lucky to reach 50 ft and only dreamed of putting a wire over the whole mass of trees. Now, with the $90 (on sale) compound bow, store-bought arrows, and monofillament fishing line, anything is possible (including nailing the neighbors; so be carefull!). Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20203 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:55:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:55:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12561 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:55:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jJQg-0001wf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:24:58 +0000 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jJQf-0001wX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:24:57 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g28AksW27535 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:46:54 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por222.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.222]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g28Akr511794 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:46:53 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020308104817.009e8100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:48:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: catapult In-reply-to: <3C87BCAF.E77F2481@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19:17 07/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Reference some messages received about putting ropes over high trees to >get the big loop airborne seems to favour the bow and arrow. An Please see http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian/Catapult.htm for a version of the G3XPH system. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16675 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 9472 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2002 10:26:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2002 10:26:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jIwT-0001pq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:53:45 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16jIwR-0001pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:53:43 +0000 Received: from modem-47.atalante.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.175] helo=lvm) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16jHPY-0004BB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:15:41 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1c68a$517827a0$af81883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Loops Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:15:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am very interested in the current Loop discussion, since I have been using Loops for reception for over two years.These are elongated, grounded loops 300/400 feet long and only 20 feet high .Since they are recieving loops thick wire is not necessesary, they are grounded at each end which means that a return wire is not required. This also discharges static and because of the ground penetration, probably increases the effective area of the loop.There does not seem to me to be any advantage in having an elevated bottom wire, the wavelength is so long that a few feet is negligable, so for tranmitting it would seem to be a good idea to have a bottom wire on, or in the ground.This would have the added advantage of making it possible to use a very thick or multiple thick wires for this part of the loop thus reducing the total loss resistance by almost 50%, with a consequent considerable increase in efficiency. I can also recomend a bow and arrow for launching wires over trees,although I hav'nt reached 150 feet! HI. 73a Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23986 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 21:10:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 21:10:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18297 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 21:10:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 21:10:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j6dW-000015-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:45:22 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j6dV-000010-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:45:21 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 19691 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 21:07:19 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-20.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 21:07:19 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: catapult Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Of course, let us not forget my favorite loop erecting tool; the one that spelled the end to your castles, even before the appearance of modern cannon - the trebuchet. :) Seriously (before April Fools Day ideas overtake us), it would be difficult to beat the 55lb compound bow that I've been using for over a year now. Lately, I've been having excellent success with more than a normal amount of lead tape wrapped on the tip of the arrow and with a bow shot angle of about 80 degrees. The arrow goes up about 150 ft and then straight down to the ground with almost no tendency to hang-up on the tree branches. Bill >My method uses a heavy duty catapult, a fishing line and an iron nut >about 1/2 inch ID. The fishing line is contained on a spinning reel and >connected to a bottom section of the normal fishing >rod............................................ >Another method is using an old small bore cannon. Position the cannon at >the correct angle and direction of fire. Loosly cover the muzzle of the >cannon barrel with some strong fish net, and nylon rope about 3/8 inch >diamater attached. Fire the cannon and the ball will project the net and >rope as required over the tree, this method is superior for 200 >ft........................................ ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7462 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 6510 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 20:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 20:06:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j5eI-0008Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:42:06 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j5eH-0008NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:42:05 +0000 Received: from comrex (209-122-233-40.s1850.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.233.40]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id PAA14664 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:04:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002901c1c614$33081da0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C87BCAF.E77F2481@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: catapult Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > My method uses a heavy duty catapult, a fishing line and an iron nut > about 1/2 inch ID. For a true catapult. Substitute (1) cat for the iron nut. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 195 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:24:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10875 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:24:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j4vd-0008DX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:55:57 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j4vc-0008DS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:55:57 +0000 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-73.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.73] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16j3D1-0001Oe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:05:48 +0000 Message-ID: <3C87BCAF.E77F2481@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:17:03 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: catapult Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Reference some messages received about putting ropes over high trees to get the big loop airborne seems to favour the bow and arrow. An alternative approach would be the catapult, this is what I use when I need to get ropes/wires over trees. My method uses a heavy duty catapult, a fishing line and an iron nut about 1/2 inch ID. The fishing line is contained on a spinning reel and connected to a bottom section of the normal fishing rod. The handle end of the rod is pushed firmly into the ground, the gear on the reel disengaged as if you were about to cast, rod pointing at the correct angle and direction of fire to get over the tree. Catapult loaded with nut and line attached, then pull catapult elastic back to max and fire, and hopefully the line will get over the tree. When nut located at far end of tree, connect some nylon cord and then engage the reel for wind in and it should pull the line and cord right over the tree, then attach a heavy nylon rope to the cord and pull over the tree. It is best to use a rope loop over the tree in case the attached antenna breakes, the antenna wire is usually the weak link, this saves having to relaunch with the catapult. Another method is using an old small bore cannon. Position the cannon at the correct angle and direction of fire. Loosly cover the muzzle of the cannon barrel with some strong fish net, and nylon rope about 3/8 inch diamater attached. Fire the cannon and the ball will project the net and rope as required over the tree, this method is superior for 200 ft Oregon pines and large spruce where the bow and arrow and catapult does not work. The ball/net and end of rope is easily found, look for a large crater at the other side of the tree, could be up to 100 yards away depending on the powder used. Cannons are now collectors items and hard to find, but try your local boot mart. Have fun looping the loop. De G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25970 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:22:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4857 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 19:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 19:22:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j4va-0008DQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:55:54 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j4vZ-0008DL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:55:53 +0000 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-73.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.73] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16j3Cw-0001OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:05:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3C873738.54E2C4BC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:47:36 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: loops References: <3C865D9F.6FD91638@netscapeonline.co.uk> <002801c1c551$ab585400$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > TX loop enthusiasts. > > The main problem with transmitting loops is the enourmous current and > Voltage which is generated when exciting them with decent power. It's all > very well to put 1W into a loop but try 1kW and see what happens..... High Q > (which you MUST have for good efficiency) necessarily means high Voltage and > current. > Stand well back! This is going to be the problem in the UK and possibly other Countries where up to 5W erp is permitted, something like 2 kw or more RF exciting the loop. Trees adjacent to the loop that were safe with 1W are likely to ignite at the KW level, it could be back to the vertical although they have been known also to ignite. High power in the KW region is a totally different game for any antenna and especially small loops compared to QRP. It is not only the loop wire but the components like toroids, wire guage, insulators and capacitors needed to resonate and match the feed, these have to be hefty and able to handle the k/volts and amperage present. In spite of all these obstacles and hazards the problems will be overcome, in the meantime look out for smoke as some of those big Oregon pines, red cedars and Norwegian spruces burst into flames!! de G3KEV > > > 73. > Dave > G3YXM > > > Some distances > > covered with 1w to the antenna are remarkable and think of the potential > > with kilowatts that some are using in the UK from the Decca Jeeps to one > > of these loops. > > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23506 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 18:31:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 18:31:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25558 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 18:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 18:31:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j45x-00085L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:02:33 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j45v-00085G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:02:31 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24055 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 18:24:22 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-14.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 18:24:22 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:32:08 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: RE: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:16:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, >This sounds interesting. Are you able to model the "gain" of the loop >against a 350ft inverted L fed against a 350ft counterpoise? Same amount of >wire but not joined up... I assume your 350ft is the length of the horizontal section? In other words: the inverted L that would fit on my land, assuming I cut down all the trees? :( The length of the vertical portion is all-important at LF since the signal is nearly 100% vertically polarized. Assuming 50ft, the loop could beat the inverted L by at least 10db. I'm basing this on the basic 50ft monopole (with long top 'capacitor') beating the 50/50 loop by the, pretty much accepted, 6db. Then I'm adding 16 db to the loop for the stretched horizontal dimension. (BTW: I'm not too keen on computer modeling for basic antenna comparisons. My feeling is that good intuitive thinking is often lost) Modeling is great for the +/- 1db details. >I just remember the great fashion of using loops on 160 years ago, Oh, jeez, I first thought you were talking about loops 160 years ago! You Brits aren't THAT far ahead of us! :) >these were in small gardens and were about 60ft long and 25 - 30ft high, small but >still better in terms of wavelength than what you're proposing. These never seemed to work any >better than the equivalent inverted L. Most likely 100% true. LF is a bit different. Because of the very strong dependency on the complete system Q (ground loss, coil loss, and yes - tree loss) the loop can come out the winner, particularly if your lot is a forest of trees like mine. In which case, I just planted a wire or two over the tops of them, and now, enjoy their presence! Bill A ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 784 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 17:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 17:13:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24689 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 17:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 17:13:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2rl-0007qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:43:49 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2rk-0007qt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.104.254]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020307170540.OIBG305.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:05:40 +0000 Message-ID: <004e01c1c5fa$91775fa0$2f6068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000801c1c5f3$1fd8a0e0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:07:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I used a loop on the 73kHz band in the early days and had some interesting results. The currents were very high - several amps for the same power that delivered a few tens of mA into a same-sized vertical. The main disadvantage of the loop was its directivity which is quite pronounced, even with the lower part very close to the ground. This may be an advantage for a point-to-point path, such as transatlantic and may result in lower noise. GW4ALG used a loop and a vertical, and the vertical usually outperformed the loop. He used the loop when it was not convenient to put up the temporary vertical. Another interesting fact was that signals from those using loops had more fading at a closer distance than from those using verticals. This suggests that the angle of radiation was higher. Perhaps an area for experimentation. My matching method was to tune the loop with two (groups of) capacitors in series, used as a potential (and hence impedance) divider. I was feeding the antenna with a 3ohm source at the time. A loop's independance from earth is a very attractive feature, but everyone I know who has used one has eventually agreed that Guglielmo Marconi got it right! Mike, G3XDV ========== From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2749 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:57:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 4574 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:57:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2gR-0007oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:32:07 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2gQ-0007oU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:32:06 +0000 Received: from comrex (208-59-181-56.s1326.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [208.59.181.56]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id LAA27062 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:54:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c1c5f9$a8d144a0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:00:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill, et al: My quick calculations at the 400 watt level show the need for a couple of vacuum variables of the 1000 pF, 10 kV variety, a G4-sized transmitting mica for the shunt capacitor, and a G2 mica as a series cap. Not cheap if purchased new, but might be possible on the surplus market. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18017 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:51:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:51:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29142 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:51:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:51:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2Z9-0007my-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:24:35 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j2Z8-0007mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 18:24:34 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g27Gk0Js020318 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:46:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020307174138.3ccf0aee@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:41:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: loops In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Bill, I following the discussion on loop antennas with great interest. I'm far from a specialist, but trying to learn ... >What really looks interesting for a loop installation, according to the >math, is the effective power gain that can be achieved by stretching the >horizontal dimension. On my property I can make this 350ft (if it were >legal) because of this strange narrow "L" shape out back in the woods. The >effective power, then, increases 50x! Tried this for an hour at very low >power (don't tell the FCC), and it works! What math do you use ? I dug up a formula for small loops (I suppose any ham-sized loop is 'small' at 2.2km / 1.33mi wavelength) : R = 320*Pi^4*A^2/L^4 , where R = radiation resistance in Ohm, A = loop area and L = wavelength. So based on that a 10m high and 100m long loop should perform as well 32m high square loop. Doubling the length of a long&low loop should increase the radiation resistance by 4 and the loss resistance by 2, resulting in an overal gain of 2 (= 3dB). Does the above fit with your math ? I like the idea of an L-shaped loop ( I suppose you mean lazy-L, so the loop is not straight in the vertical plane) as I presume that this will reduce the sharp nulls in the radiation pattern. > >My first TX loop article just appeared in the US Longwave Club's 'Lowdown' >publication. The second is to follow next month. Sounds interesting, is it available on the web ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2118 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:18:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 25709 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 16:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 16:18:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j23e-0007fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:52:02 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j23d-0007fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:52:01 +0000 Received: from host217-35-37-129.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.37.129] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16j0Wl-0006Ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:13:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c1c5f3$1fd8a0e0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill. This sounds interesting. Are you able to model the "gain" of the loop against a 350ft inverted L fed against a 350ft counterpoise? Same amount of wire but not joined up... I just remember the great fashion of using loops on 160 years ago, these were in small gardens and were about 60ft long and 25 - 30ft high, small but still better in terms of wavelength than what you're proposing. These never seemed to work any better than the equivalent inverted L. Time for some experiments... over to you Mal! Understood about the Voltage (note the capital... oh dear let's not start that again..) on the loop, agreed but you don't have a capacitor at the top of a vertical. Sounds like you need one that'll stand 5kV and 25A, and be weatherproof and adjustable. 73 Dave G3YXM. > For the typical high Q LF loop with 50ft x 50ft dimensions, the max voltage > is about 7 times lower than the voltage at the top of a typical 50ft > monopole. With a loop conductor of #8 ga, or RG-8, the current at 1w is > approx 1.2A. At a 400w the current goes up by 20x to 24A, which is no > problem for these conductors. > > What really looks interesting for a loop installation, according to the > math, is the effective power gain that can be achieved by stretching the > horizontal dimension. On my property I can make this 350ft (if it were > legal) because of this strange narrow "L" shape out back in the woods. The > effective power, then, increases 50x! Tried this for an hour at very low > power (don't tell the FCC), and it works! > > My first TX loop article just appeared in the US Longwave Club's 'Lowdown' > publication. The second is to follow next month. > > Bill Ashlock > > > > ********************************************************************* > This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for > the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus > Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use > local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. > ********************************************************************* > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19542 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 15:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 15:42:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19623 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 15:42:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 15:42:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j1Lb-0007WS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:06:31 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j1La-0007W9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 17:06:30 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0GSM00MG108ZNG@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Deliberate QRM? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <7813938.1015514861763.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was not over impressed today at 15.15 by a UK station that appeared to deliberately tune up and down the band for some time over stations calling CQ, myself and ON6ND. Should one not listen first? John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16010 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 15:18:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 15:18:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14836 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 15:18:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 15:18:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j12m-0007SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:47:04 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16j12l-0007S3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:47:03 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 20100 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 15:08:31 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-20.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 15:08:31 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:00:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, >The main problem with transmitting loops is the enourmous current and >Voltage which is generated when exciting them with decent power. It's all very well to put 1W >into a loop but try 1kW and see what happens..... High Q (which you MUST have for good >efficiency) necessarily means high Voltage and current. For the typical high Q LF loop with 50ft x 50ft dimensions, the max voltage is about 7 times lower than the voltage at the top of a typical 50ft monopole. With a loop conductor of #8 ga, or RG-8, the current at 1w is approx 1.2A. At a 400w the current goes up by 20x to 24A, which is no problem for these conductors. What really looks interesting for a loop installation, according to the math, is the effective power gain that can be achieved by stretching the horizontal dimension. On my property I can make this 350ft (if it were legal) because of this strange narrow "L" shape out back in the woods. The effective power, then, increases 50x! Tried this for an hour at very low power (don't tell the FCC), and it works! My first TX loop article just appeared in the US Longwave Club's 'Lowdown' publication. The second is to follow next month. Bill Ashlock ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22220 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 10:44:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 10:44:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23796 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 10:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 10:44:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iwou-0006qP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:16:28 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iwot-0006qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:16:27 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g27AbrJs097156 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:37:54 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020307113331.2d07eae0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:33:31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Loop theory... In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020307100411.2d0772f4@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:04 7/03/02, I wrote: >the more general formula for AC is : P = U x I x sin(a) where a = angle between >u and I. Oops ... should of course be P = U x I x cos(a) I should read my own mails before sending them, sorry Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2321 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 09:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 09:56:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 7588 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 09:56:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 09:56:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iw0E-0006hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:06 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iw0D-0006h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:06 +0000 Received: from host62-7-31-127.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.31.127] helo=dave) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16iuTH-0004li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c1c5bd$240e6ae0$7f1f073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3C865D9F.6FD91638@netscapeonline.co.uk> <002801c1c551$ab585400$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: Re: loops Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:42:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC >The main problem with transmitting loops is the enourmous current and >Voltage which is generated when exciting them with decent power. It's all >very well to put 1W into a loop but try 1kW and see what happens..... High Q >(which you MUST have for good efficiency) necessarily means high Voltage and >current. This is true, but as WE0H comments the biggest problem is current rather than voltage. Calculations on my loop (not that much smaller than 40 ft square...) indicate that 26A would be required at 400W input. Using my method of capacitive matching this would probably be unrealistic as the demands on the capacitors would be excessive. The current handling of the conductors is probably the least of the worries. I am currently driving my loop at 80W, and it seems quite happy at that level. Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5005 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 09:21:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 09:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21432 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 09:21:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 09:21:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ivQS-0006aP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:47:08 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ivQR-0006aK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:47:07 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g2798XJs038170 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:08:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020307100411.2d0772f4@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:04:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Loop theory... In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:07 6/03/02 -0600, WE0H wrote: >Now a vertical has high voltage and lower current than a loop. A loop has >high current but lower voltage than a vertical. Power = current x voltage. P = U x I counts only if the load is purely resistive, the more general formula for AC is : P = U x I x sin(a) where a = angle between u and I. Example : I'm running about 400W into my antenna, resulting in an antenna current of 1.8A and an antenna voltage of 5kV. Taking P = U x I would result in a power of 9kW ... not bad for 400 W input But in reality my antenna has a dominant capacitive component so phase between voltage and current is close to 90 degrees. >Verticals have their place on a treeless lot. Loops have their place on a >tree filled lot. I happen to live on a tree filled lot (several 100's of these lossy capacitors within a range of 50m arround the antenna). I tried a loop (12m high / 23m long) and a vertical (inv-L, 12m high / 23m topload). The vertical was about 6-10dB better than the loop. But maybe things would have been different for a larger loop : Simplified one could state that the loss resistance of a vertical is rather independent of the height (ignoring the 'footprint theory', in reality the loss resistance will slightly decrease when increasing the heigh). On the other hand the radiation resistance increases with the square of the height, so the efficiency of a vertical antenna will (more or less) increase with the square of its height. So doubling the height of a vertical will result in a +/- 6dB improvement. For a loop antenna the loss resistance (assuming that it is mainly 'copper-loss' in the wires) will double if you double the dimensions of a loop (what will increase the loop area with a factor of 4) you will increase the radiation resistance with a factor 16 (since it is proportional to the square of the loop area). So the efficiency will increase by a factor 8 (= 16/2) if you doulbe the loop dimensions (= 9 dB). This means that by doubling dimensions a vertical will improve 'only' 6dB will a loop will improve 9dB. So it is clear that by increasing the dimensions a loop at a certain point will outperform a vertical, but I'm afraid that these dimensions will be far too large for an average European property (maybe different for the midwest US properties ...) 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11844 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 00:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 00:47:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 14441 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 00:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 00:46:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16inTU-0005fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 02:17:44 +0000 Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.203]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16inTT-0005fU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 02:17:43 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d26.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.225]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g270d6524343 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:39:06 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: New interference source? Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:41:05 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <000201c1c539$e92f8d60$b25901d5@default> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Aliens trying to communicate with us. Hi Hi. Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Alan Melia Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:50 AM To: LF-Group Subject: LF: New interference source? Hi all, I have a new 'sound' appearing on the band recently. It is quite distinct from the TV PSU noises. It seems to appear at the top end of the band for periods of time (I am not sure whether it goes off, or just drifts away) The main symptom is a growling (I am using LSB so this is the low audio frequencies) which is keyed for one second with 0.5 per second PRF. The spectrum on Argo is of a band of 50Hz sidebands which may be FSKed with a 0.5 Hz square wave, the shift must be in excess of 500Hz . I can't think of any domestic item that would be that precise "once every 2 secs" action.....the defrosting periods of a microwave oven are usually longer than that. (If it was that, then I have a neighbour who is defrosting either a Wooly Mamoth or a Dinosaur !!) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18299 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 00:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 00:17:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 19974 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2002 00:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2002 00:16:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16imxO-0005au-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 01:44:34 +0000 Received: from mail2.mx.lnng.mi.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201] helo=mail2.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16imxN-0005ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 07 Mar 2002 01:44:33 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d47.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.246]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2706Ra54481; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:06:27 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Lowfer/Hifer Reflector" Subject: LF: Loop theory... Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:07:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now a vertical has high voltage and lower current than a loop. A loop has high current but lower voltage than a vertical. Power = current x voltage. Running a loop with a kilowatt amplifier would indeed produce high current, which would require large wire. Running a vertical with a kilowatt amplifier would indeed produce high voltage, which would require large insulators. I am trying a very well proven loop design thanks to Mr. Ashlock, on the 160-190kc band with my legal 1-watt final amplifier. I absolutely cannot get my vertical to work as well as the loop with so many trees on my property. I have over 3000 feet (914.4 meters) of ground radials under my vertical. Verticals have their place on a treeless lot. Loops have their place on a tree filled lot. You need to have your vertical large enough to reduce losses. You need to have your loop large enough to reduce losses as well. There is nothing to argue here. These are the facts. Your comments are welcome. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9941 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 21:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 21:07:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 1322 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 21:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 21:07:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ik1G-0005A6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:36:22 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ik1F-0005A1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:36:21 +0000 Received: from host217-35-31-114.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.31.114] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16iiUN-0006p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:58:19 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c1c551$ab585400$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C865D9F.6FD91638@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: loops Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:58:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: TX loop enthusiasts. The main problem with transmitting loops is the enourmous current and Voltage which is generated when exciting them with decent power. It's all very well to put 1W into a loop but try 1kW and see what happens..... High Q (which you MUST have for good efficiency) necessarily means high Voltage and current. Stand well back! 73. Dave G3YXM > Some distances > covered with 1w to the antenna are remarkable and think of the potential > with kilowatts that some are using in the UK from the Decca Jeeps to one > of these loops. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2285 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:45:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:45:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18203 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:45:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iikS-0004y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:14:56 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iikR-0004y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:14:55 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16ihDZ-0006cH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:36:53 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ihDY-0005MV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:36:52 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306191533.00b09e08@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:33:10 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: New interference source? In-reply-to: <000201c1c539$e92f8d60$b25901d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:49 06/03/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, I have a new 'sound' appearing on the band recently..... I had something like that once - it turned out to be coming from a computer printer that had a flashing tell-tale LED when in standby mode - it was obvious the noise and the flashing were synchronised, and it went away when the printer was unplugged. I once did some EMC measurements on PC SMPSUs which generated more noise when they were on standby than when running at full power - so it is worth looking for that kind of thing. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27313 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:17:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 9330 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iiIN-0004sD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:45:55 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iiIM-0004s8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:45:54 +0000 Received: from modem-15.aradan.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.143] helo=lvm) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16iglR-00083O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:07:50 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1c542$536313c0$8f75883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Jason tonight Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:08:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- From: James Moritz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 06 March 2002 10:38 Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Jason tonight >Dear Laurie, LF group, > >Got home just in time to see you signing off with John, whichever John that >was - perfect copy on the Jason signal; but then your signal was 589 here >anyway. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > >It was G4CNN, many thanks for the report. 73s Laurie > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20041 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:00:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20505 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 19:00:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 19:00:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ii09-0004po-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:27:05 +0000 Received: from nat7.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.9] helo=xprdmailfe.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ii08-0004pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:27:05 +0000 Received: by xprdmailfe.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 4C3FCB752; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: New interference source? From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020306184813.4C3FCB752@xprdmailfe.excite.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nothing here Alan but will listen out for it.
Can't imagine what it could be.
John, G4CNN

--- On Wed 03/06, Alan Melia wrote:
> Hi all, I have a new 'sound' appearing on the band recently. It is quite
> distinct from the TV PSU noises. It seems to appear at the top end of the
> band for periods of time (I am not sure whether it goes off, or just
> drifts
> away) The main symptom is a growling (I am using LSB so this is the low
> audio frequencies) which is keyed for one second with 0.5 per second PRF.
> The spectrum on Argo is of a band of 50Hz sidebands which may be FSKed
> with
> a 0.5 Hz square wave, the shift must be in excess of 500Hz . I can't
> think
> of any domestic item that would be that precise "once every 2
> secs"
> action.....the defrosting periods of a microwave oven are usually longer
> than that. (If it was that, then I have a neighbour who is defrosting
> either
> a Wooly Mamoth or a Dinosaur !!)
>
> Cheers de Alan G3NYK
> alan.melia@btinternet.com
>
>
>
>

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13511 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 18:34:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 18:34:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1686 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 18:31:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 18:31:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ihYH-0004kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:58:17 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ihYG-0004kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:58:16 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-117.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.117] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16ifpg-0000p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:08:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3C865D9F.6FD91638@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:19:11 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello to all Loop experimenters. especially the USA Thanks to all that have sent me info about their experiments with the bigger loop antennas, especially the observations from the USA, where there seems to be plenty of real estate available with large pines, cedars and high towers to put up big loops and are able to compare with verticals. The majority of information has been sent directly to me but could be useful to others if the information was directed to all, and those with sufficient space around their QTH might learn something. The loops being discussed are at least 40 ft x 40ft and up to 200 ft plus. I have not been impressed with signals from loops around the UK and EU but with large loops the position could be different. Some distances covered with 1w to the antenna are remarkable and think of the potential with kilowatts that some are using in the UK from the Decca Jeeps to one of these loops. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14900 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 18:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 18:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10731 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 18:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 18:15:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ihMs-0004ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:46:30 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ihMr-0004ib-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:46:29 +0000 Received: from host213-1-89-178.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.1.89.178] helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16ifpz-0006Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:08:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1c539$e92f8d60$b25901d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: New interference source? Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:49:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have a new 'sound' appearing on the band recently. It is quite distinct from the TV PSU noises. It seems to appear at the top end of the band for periods of time (I am not sure whether it goes off, or just drifts away) The main symptom is a growling (I am using LSB so this is the low audio frequencies) which is keyed for one second with 0.5 per second PRF. The spectrum on Argo is of a band of 50Hz sidebands which may be FSKed with a 0.5 Hz square wave, the shift must be in excess of 500Hz . I can't think of any domestic item that would be that precise "once every 2 secs" action.....the defrosting periods of a microwave oven are usually longer than that. (If it was that, then I have a neighbour who is defrosting either a Wooly Mamoth or a Dinosaur !!) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 9133 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 12:14:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 12:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 23719 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 12:14:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 12:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ibku-0003r5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:46:56 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ibkt-0003r0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:46:55 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16iaE0-0006sD-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:08:53 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:50:05 +0000 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: G4CNN MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John G4CNN I sent you a direct e-mail on which bounced twice. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23653 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 10:35:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 10:35:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11374 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 10:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 10:35:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iaEB-0003c5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:09:03 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iaEA-0003c0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:09:02 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16iYhI-0003Vk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:31:00 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16iYhI-0005Nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:31:00 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306101912.00a77618@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:27:18 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Jason tonight In-reply-to: <000101c1c46b$15bf7c20$8d72883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Laurie, LF group, Got home just in time to see you signing off with John, whichever John that was - perfect copy on the Jason signal; but then your signal was 589 here anyway. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29892 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 06:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 06:15:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28909 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2002 06:15:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 06:15:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iW1r-00035E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 07:40:03 +0000 Received: from m3.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iW1q-00034m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 07:40:02 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"4R9cyLELVNyEKkNVGzgegiluINBNPpRnRcgjWfmwpqiqZifM0j2/hw=="> Received: (from rangertaz@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GU7SPJUB; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:01:13 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:32:24 UTC Subject: Re: LF: Spelling of units Message-ID: <20020306.060005.-813355.1.rangertaz@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6-31 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: rangertaz@juno.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm not sure what's correct or incorrect. What color (or is it colour) are the bands on the resistor? Seems that various countries have different spellings of units and words. ;-) On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:51:36 +0100 Dick Rollema writes: > Dear OM, > > The following matter has nothing to do with LF but as former editor > and > corrector of VERON magazine Electron I nevertheless take the liberty > to beg > your opinion on it. > > In our country units that are derived from the names of scientists > are > written with a lower case letter; for instance volt, ampère, watt, > etc.; > not Volt, Ampère, Watt. When abbreviated we use a capital letter, so > V, A, > W etc. We also write "5 ohm, not 5 Ohms" (no plural). And we insert > a > space between the number and the unit: "3 V and not 3V". > > I wonder what the rules are in other countries, inside [including > the > UK :-)] and outside Europe because I see a lot of variations in > spelling > of units on the reflector. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11973 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:00:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18514 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 19:00:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 19:00:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iLdb-0001lt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:34:19 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iLda-0001lo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:34:18 +0000 Received: from fwd10.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16iK6d-0002Gm-00; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:11 +0100 Received: from (024074273-0001@[217.2.116.79]) by fwd10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16iK6S-21EOwqC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:56:00 +0100 From: "Walter Schmischke" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Ham Radio Shop in London? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:56:00 +0100 Message-ID: <16iK6S-21EOwqC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 024074273-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, DL1KSW 05.03.02 Hello, 26 and 27.03. my xyl and I are in London, is in London a shop with new and old things in hamradio, perhaps for lf? I think, I have time to look some time, thanks for answer. 72, 73, de Walter, DL1KSW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26065 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 26314 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 17:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 17:36:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iKFI-0001ZW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:05:08 +0000 Received: from imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.180]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iKFH-0001ZR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:05:07 +0000 Received: from modem-13.anguirel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.114.141] helo=lvm) by imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16iIiP-0003uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:27:05 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c1c46b$15bf7c20$8d72883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: 73kHz Jason tonight Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:27:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, 73 is still clear, so I will call CQ on 71.8kHz using Jason, at 1800 and 1900 utc. I will listen on 136.5 +/- for possible X band contact. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20465 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 17:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 17:10:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5329 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 17:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 17:09:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iJqg-0001Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:39:42 +0000 Received: from mta2.snet.net ([204.60.203.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iJqf-0001Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:39:41 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by mta2.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g25H1Yjt000055 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:01:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c1c467$9c600aa0$6e01a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305111830.00a99f38@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Your litz wire comments Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:03:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim and the group I am going to build a loop here for the lowfer band here in the states. A while back Jim wrote a post about making your own litz wire. I recall that it mentioned twisting the wire with a drill and then twisting sets of these wire to get the desired size of Litz required. He also mentioned something about one cannot just lay the wires parralel and expect it to perform as a Litz wire would. Can you you explain please what that effect was ? Mutual Conductance perhaps? Here is the reason I ask. I have access to Telephone company multi pair wire. many sizes but lets just talk about 25 pair # 24 wire. The square loop I propose would have a primeter of 200' 200 feet of #24 wire has a DC resistance of 5.134 Ohms. Divide that by the 50 wires in a 25 pair cable and you have a DC loss of .102 Ohms. Using a diameter of .0201" for the #24 wire X the 50 wire in parallel there would be an effective diameter of 1" or a surface area of PI * 1" or 3.14". There by lower the radiation resistace of the antenna. Would some care to comment on this idea on wether some or all of it have merit? Thank you kindly Paul A.Cianciolo W1VLF This seems to be an effective coductor for use in an LF loop From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19230 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 15:44:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 15:44:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18228 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 15:44:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 15:44:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iIWV-0001Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:14:47 +0000 Received: from mailout11.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.85]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iIWU-0001Fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:14:46 +0000 Received: from fwd08.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16iFrO-0003TK-00; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:24:10 +0100 Received: from 217.225.192.181 (0607144537-0001@[217.225.192.181]) by fwd08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16iFr7-1q8fdAC; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:23:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: some signals needed From: "bernd grupe" To: "lf-group" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Date: 05 Mar 2002 14:23 GMT Message-ID: <16iFr7-1q8fdAC@fwd08.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Group,


there will be a meeting with young people on Saturday next weekend. Location is Goslar near Hannover(Germany). The subject is to build a very simple LF-RX in a couple of hours. At 17:00 to 18.00 UTC(03.08.2002) we will try to listen for your signals. Please send in qrss3- or dfcw-mode or hell on the LF band. The RX is specified to 137,7kHz +/- 50 Hz. So jason92-mode are also welcome but we can't tune below 137,650 kHz. Because of using a small RX-active-antenna, no chance will be given for response. Thank you in advance for any signal beaconing.

73 es tnx Bernd, DF8ZR






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22903 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 15:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 15:35:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8944 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 15:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 15:35:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iIND-0001EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:05:11 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iINC-0001E6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:05:10 +0000 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-5.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.5] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16iGee-0005dI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:15:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3C84E388.F99CFBA6@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:26:00 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: loops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Ashlock,William" wrote: > Mal, > > I experimented with multiturn 50'x50' vertical TX loops on 185k a couple of > years ago and remember the net gain in the far field signal was much less > than anticipated. Turned out that the additional wires were better-off > connected in parallel. I think the reason is that the soil loss begins to > dominate when turns are added to a loop this size. I'll get out my notes on > these experiments, tonight, and get back to you. Thanks Bill for your loop details and any further information would be useful, there is no good me reinventing the wheel hi. My plan was to put enough turns on the loop to resonate it on 136 khz, parallel turns would not do this, but would probably broaden the bandwidth, again this is not my goal. I am looking for something that would perform as well as my 120 ft vertical on TX. I do not have an RX problem, and my vertical performs well also on receive at this QTH. It seems from previous articles about loops that on RX a small loop and preamp works well and there would be only a marginal advantage with a large loop. As far as I am aware the only amateurs using loops are just experimenting for fun, have no room for bigger arrays or live in a noisy environment and use a loop to null out noise. I do not want to go to all the trouble of putting up a loop only to find it peforms poorly and of course it would be directional. I fall into the category of a loop for fun. There must be other loop users out there with a lot of information good and bad. 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > Regards, > Bill Ashlock > > >Has anyone ever tried a large multi turn loop that resonates directly on > >a LF of interest. Most amateurs cannot get a full size one wavelength > >loop installed for 160 metres but a 40 metre loop is manageable, so > >instead of a 1 turn loop on this freq make it 4 turns plus or minus to > >get it to resonate on 160 metres. ie just a large diameter resonant 160m > >coil used as an antenna. This principle could be used on 136 khz for > >instance, the same 40 m dimensions but with as many turns as nessary to > >resonate it on the lower freq of interest. > >There will be practical differences and it will probably not work out at > >x N turns because of capacitance etc, but the approach to achieve > >resonance is the criteria on the lower freqs. > >When I say large loop I mean some thing like 40 m and nothing too large, > >but sufficient size to have a chance of working and keep the Q > >reasonable. The loop would be hanging vertically and the bottom wire at > >least 6 feet(2m) off the ground. > >73 de Mal/G3KEV > > ********************************************************************* > This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for > the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus > Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use > local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. > ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8714 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 12:11:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 12:11:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 984 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 12:11:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 12:11:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iFBN-0000fM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:40:45 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iFBM-0000fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:40:44 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16iDeT-0006S7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:02:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16iDeT-0002Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:02:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305111830.00a99f38@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:58:58 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Best receiver for LF, and qrss activity. In-reply-to: <003201c19bd3$5eca3740$4a6152d5@it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Giulio, LF Group, I find the RA1792 generally good on LF - it has a useful selection of filters, sensitivity is fairly uniform down to about 15kHz, quite good strong signal handling, and it has excellent frequency stability for digital modes due to the built in ovened reference oscillator. The main down sides for me are the somewhat idiosyncratic front panel controls and difficult-to-see LCD display, and a slight leakage around or through the filters which means very strong sigs outside the passband are weakly audible. It has no preselector whatsoever - just a 30MHz low pass, but then most receivers do not have effective preselectors on LF anyway. A tuned TX antenna gives adequate preselection, and good sensitivity. There are a number of variants with different microprocessor controllers and displays - the earlier ones tune in 10Hz steps, while my later one tunes in 1Hz steps. My unit has worked fine for over a year now, but some have experienced reliability problems - so be sure to get a manual!. I believe on some units the LCD displays fail after a while. If it does go wrong, it is relatively easy to work on, since it is from before the era of surface mount components. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20856 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 08:22:14 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 08:22:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2249 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 08:22:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 08:22:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iBYR-00003L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:48:19 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iBYQ-00003G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:48:18 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16iA1X-000Em3-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:10:16 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:44:33 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Antenna experiments In-reply-to: <5193537.1015259920013.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John G4CNN I only heard you briefly last week end when I managed to have a break from pruning trees, but your signal sounded stronger than I remember it. I'm sure there is an obvious answer, but why don't you put a halyard over one of the tall trees and gain height that way? Maybe they are outside your property boundary. 73, Tom G3OLB. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23306 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 07:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 07:52:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 8475 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 07:52:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 07:52:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iB9z-00000W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:23:03 +0000 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16iB9x-00000Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:23:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 78259 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2002 07:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 5 Mar 2002 07:44:45 -0000 Message-ID: <002201c1c419$9e830e20$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003201c19bd3$5eca3740$4a6152d5@it> Subject: LF: Re: Best receiver for LF, and qrss activity. Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello,
FYG, I am using EDK 300 with some mods, see:
 
73 Petr OK1FIG
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:39 AM
Subject: LF: Best receiver for LF, and qrss activity.

The next weekend here in my city there is the our local hamfest, so is the good time for buy some surplus receiver for the LF.
I'm currently using my IC775 on LF, with an external power supply, and it is a very good receiver on LF, the opposite sideband with a signal of 9+50 is not audible!!and sensitivity is quite good.
But i cannot go all the time with this situation, 775 without cover, no possibility to go on tx, so i need some LF receiver.
I'm loocking for the following equipment.
 
Racal 1792
RFT EDK series, 100-300-500
JRC NRD 525/535
 
Becouse this receivers are made in late 80, wich is the best in terms of dinamic range, IMD, phase noise and sensitivity, in LF band, or is better my 775!!!
 
73 to all from IK2DED.
 
 
NB Why the activity on 137 is so low in QRSS and digital?
And wich is the best digital mode for LF?
After some test with Jason, no one station is using this mode now, in qrss/digital the activity seems very very low, all the station is on 136.5 in aural cw.
For the station that is located in Central Europe and south UK, this may be a good mode, but this not help the activity in other country, like CT - SP - F - south I - former YU and former UA, with aural cw yes is possible to made a very long qso also, but only with bigger station and antenna, like i have tried in my contest station in Mantova, but how many of us are in this condition???
We may count it on two hand, not more than ten!!
So i hope really more activity on qrss, digital, for help all the average station, in all the Europe.
Use the 137 only on aural cw, for my opinion, is very restrictive, and produce newcomers on the band only from the Central Europe!
For digital, like many of us are using PA in class D, the mode like PSK, Hell are not usable with this class without more complexity in transmitter ( i have received saturday DF6NM and I5TGC in Hell, really funny read the letters on the screen), so the best may be the IFK (like Jason), that is perfectly usable with class D, that all we have.
Any opinion?
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7403 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:14:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 14692 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 23:14:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 23:14:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i38W-0007Zl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:49:00 +0000 Received: from mx2.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i38U-0007Zg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:48:59 +0000 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by mx2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g24N7Wj25703 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from k6500 (d45.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.244]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g24NAtw60583 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:10:55 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loops Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:12:03 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3C83A819.D73F7D7C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That will be a very interesting antenna to hear about. I hope you can put it up real soon. I think someone over on this side used a small receive sized multi-turn loop for transmit with the 1w and actually radiated a signal, although weak. Now maybe the 40m on a side multi-turn loop will be better. 136kc will hurt the efficiency. The station over here was on 180kc. Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of gii3kev Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:00 AM To: rsgb rsgb Subject: LF: loops Has anyone ever tried a large multi turn loop that resonates directly on a LF of interest. Most amateurs cannot get a full size one wavelength loop installed for 160 metres but a 40 metre loop is manageable, so instead of a 1 turn loop on this freq make it 4 turns plus or minus to get it to resonate on 160 metres. ie just a large diameter resonant 160m coil used as an antenna. This principle could be used on 136 khz for instance, the same 40 m dimensions but with as many turns as nessary to resonate it on the lower freq of interest. There will be practical differences and it will probably not work out at x N turns because of capacitance etc, but the approach to achieve resonance is the criteria on the lower freqs. When I say large loop I mean some thing like 40 m and nothing too large, but sufficient size to have a chance of working and keep the Q reasonable. The loop would be hanging vertically and the bottom wire at least 6 feet(2m) off the ground. Maybe someone has already tried this procedure. I know there are multi turn small loops of various configurations, series wound, parallel wound, series tuned, parallel tuned etc and preamps but I do not recall any research figures published for large multi turn loops. When I get time I intend to put up a large loop and instead of a single turn suitably resonated on 136 khz I am thinking along the lines of the series multi turn loop. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6045 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:42:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:42:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 20211 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:42:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i2dT-0007V5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:16:55 +0000 Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.204]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i2dR-0007Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:16:54 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d30.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.229]) by mail5.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g24MesV62276 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:40:54 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Anything to get on the air... Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:39:58 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304141458.009f4810@POP3.freeler.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hi Dick,

Thanks for the kind words.

73’s,

Mike>WE0H

http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Dick Rollema
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:26 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Anything to get on the air...

 

To All from PA0SE

Mike WE0H wrote:
:

I agree with Dave G3YMC as to getting on the air with whatever it takes.
Many people don't have the property to put up a good antenna. I myself have
too many trees to make a vertical work on LF, so I am building the Ashlock
loops. It doesn't matter if you have a big antenna or big amp or the best
radios, this is a hobby to enjoy with whatever we can have. If you have a
weak signal, it doesn't matter. Just enjoy being on LF, as it is better than
not being able to operate on LF at all. By using low power or having a weak
signal, it may advance the new software development, as there is a need for
it with signals below the noise floor. Just look at the US operators on LF,
they most likely could have never achieved the 2000+ mile receptions with
the legal 1-w, without using all of this great software that so many of you
generous people develop and give to us free of charge. Everyone can along
from the rich to the poor and from the best-equipped station to the
compromised station. Maybe just consider working the weaker signal stations
as a great accomplishment on your part as being able to decode their signal.
It is like chasing that rare DX station on HF that is barely readable. These
are my comments and I welcome feedback both good and bad.

I consider Mike's  remarks a  fine example of the following item of The Amateur's Code:

quote:

The Radio Amateur is:

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and consel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spririt.

unquote

73, Dick, PA0SE

 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26237 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:27:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:27:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 28225 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 22:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 22:27:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i2LN-0007MB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:58:13 +0000 Received: from imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.179]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16i2LM-0007M6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:58:12 +0000 Received: from modem-14.orange-spotted-sleeper-goby.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.43.14] helo=g3aqc) by imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16i0oS-0001dX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:20:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1c3ca$f7f4a4e0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73kHz tonight. Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:21:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good X band 73/136 contact at 1900 with DK8KW , will try again tomorrow at 0900 if band still quiet. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8174 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:27:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:27:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11131 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:27:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:27:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzYo-0006zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:59:54 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzYn-0006zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:59:53 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 27289 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:21:49 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-4.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:21:49 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:29:35 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: loops Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:13:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, I experimented with multiturn 50'x50' vertical TX loops on 185k a couple of years ago and remember the net gain in the far field signal was much less than anticipated. Turned out that the additional wires were better-off connected in parallel. I think the reason is that the soil loss begins to dominate when turns are added to a loop this size. I'll get out my notes on these experiments, tonight, and get back to you. Regards, Bill Ashlock >Has anyone ever tried a large multi turn loop that resonates directly on >a LF of interest. Most amateurs cannot get a full size one wavelength >loop installed for 160 metres but a 40 metre loop is manageable, so >instead of a 1 turn loop on this freq make it 4 turns plus or minus to >get it to resonate on 160 metres. ie just a large diameter resonant 160m >coil used as an antenna. This principle could be used on 136 khz for >instance, the same 40 m dimensions but with as many turns as nessary to >resonate it on the lower freq of interest. >There will be practical differences and it will probably not work out at >x N turns because of capacitance etc, but the approach to achieve >resonance is the criteria on the lower freqs. >When I say large loop I mean some thing like 40 m and nothing too large, >but sufficient size to have a chance of working and keep the Q >reasonable. The loop would be hanging vertically and the bottom wire at >least 6 feet(2m) off the ground. >73 de Mal/G3KEV ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21739 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:19:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 3785 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:19:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzSl-0006yM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:53:39 +0000 Received: from www.gardaol.com ([195.223.232.51] helo=netregister.it ident=xkkmehsin) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzSj-0006yG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:53:38 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia10.phoenix.it [213.82.97.74]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g24JFV303836 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:15:31 +0100 Message-ID: <003201c19bd3$5eca3740$4a6152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Best receiver for LF, and qrss activity. Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 02:39:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The next weekend here in my city there is the our local hamfest, so is the good time for buy some surplus receiver for the LF.
I'm currently using my IC775 on LF, with an external power supply, and it is a very good receiver on LF, the opposite sideband with a signal of 9+50 is not audible!!and sensitivity is quite good.
But i cannot go all the time with this situation, 775 without cover, no possibility to go on tx, so i need some LF receiver.
I'm loocking for the following equipment.
 
Racal 1792
RFT EDK series, 100-300-500
JRC NRD 525/535
 
Becouse this receivers are made in late 80, wich is the best in terms of dinamic range, IMD, phase noise and sensitivity, in LF band, or is better my 775!!!
 
73 to all from IK2DED.
 
 
NB Why the activity on 137 is so low in QRSS and digital?
And wich is the best digital mode for LF?
After some test with Jason, no one station is using this mode now, in qrss/digital the activity seems very very low, all the station is on 136.5 in aural cw.
For the station that is located in Central Europe and south UK, this may be a good mode, but this not help the activity in other country, like CT - SP - F - south I - former YU and former UA, with aural cw yes is possible to made a very long qso also, but only with bigger station and antenna, like i have tried in my contest station in Mantova, but how many of us are in this condition???
We may count it on two hand, not more than ten!!
So i hope really more activity on qrss, digital, for help all the average station, in all the Europe.
Use the 137 only on aural cw, for my opinion, is very restrictive, and produce newcomers on the band only from the Central Europe!
For digital, like many of us are using PA in class D, the mode like PSK, Hell are not usable with this class without more complexity in transmitter ( i have received saturday DF6NM and I5TGC in Hell, really funny read the letters on the screen), so the best may be the IFK (like Jason), that is perfectly usable with class D, that all we have.
Any opinion?
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16167 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:09:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22019 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 19:09:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 19:09:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzJI-0006vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:52 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hzJH-0006vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:52 +0000 Received: from ldsas08-72-123-100.cw-visp.com ([212.137.123.100] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16hxaj-0001Nr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:53:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3C83C51A.30266188@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:03:55 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: F6CWA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Latest info from Hube/F6CWA. He is located at JN24MF/Nyons 200 km south of LION and is using his 160 m ant mast, 26m vertical. He is putting out a big signal 579 with me from a Ropex tx. I have now worked him twice. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25052 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 18:49:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 18:49:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 6897 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 18:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 18:49:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hyvL-0006rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:19:07 +0000 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hyvJ-0006rM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:19:06 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA14703 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:40:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:39:03 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: 73kHz tonight! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200203041339_MC3-F46B-209D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090706070903070403020500" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090706070903070403020500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Laurie, >Hi All, >73 looks pretty clear tonight (monthly maintenance ?) So I will try some >Jason >on 71.8kHz. Look for me for 5/10mins on the hour starting 1800 utc. I will >look for CW replies on 136.5+/- initially . 73s Laurie. ... good copy here in JO52BH (see attachment), I was unable to call you on 136.5 kHz because we just had dinner at that time. Maybe I will give you a call later tonight, although the band seems to get noisier now as more and more TV-sets are being switched on. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) --------------090706070903070403020500 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="G3AQC-JASON.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="G3AQC-JASON.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDACgcHiMeGSgjISMtKygwPGRBPDc3PHtYXUlkkYCZ lo+AjIqgtObDoKrarYqMyP/L2u71////m8H////6/+b9//j/2wBDASstLTw1PHZBQXb4pYyl +Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj4+Pj/wAAR CABUAOoDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwC5dO6xjyzg5qp51x/z0P5VaLZGKZBb5Zz6 00A2G5dSfObOelW1cEZqhfx+W0XuTTX3IPmkI/GiwGluo3Vnx+ZwySMR9am81yCF4YdfaiwF rdRurNkLKcvKwz709JGQAliyngd6LAX91G6qUhlf+IqPao03k/LKTj0OaLAaO6jdVQyNt2tw T3qILIh3b249TRYDQzRurOUOxyspP0aplmZMK55PeiwFvdVBpbkMR5h4PoKs7+KFjEhJ70IA iuA+AfvY5qCaabzW2PhRwBillhaO5j2jh+KfcoIYGc9hx9aAEW6YRAD5n7moTPcE534+gqWz t91qjetVboMLsxg424pgWobmQHEvI9atK4YZBqNbfKg46iqsEhWR4/7rEUgL5cAEntVKW5mZ vkO0VOP3h2+tNuLZ/Jbyx82OKEBAlxOpyW3D0Iq5HMrj0PpVaztpPLIkUjnjNJdA28sZH8Wa ACW4nLEIQoB9KYs9wD9/P1FE4LoNvepbW2YRndyD0pgTRThwN3DelSbqz7s+VcIq9cZNTiQ4 FKwCZNTW8mwHPeqDSsv0qP7VRYC9d7bm5t4ycDJJqeX7PbR7m6dOlY6SyNOJO46VZe7GMOOP emBoW8kNwhdAQM45qsGMd9MQhaMAZx1HFV1vVAwOBTFuj5zsP4sUWA01mtZTt3DJ7EVHcW8K lHT5QHGR261RN2A2doz64qOe5eYbR0osBq3qA2kgj5bHGKp6bD+93tkDHOaYLl1Qbufek+24 oAvXnlh4ADyZB+VGoKgspCOvH86yzM8s6ueingVLcXJeJkOeaAJtLRdzEnqKdqmEaHb6n+lV 7eQxrkUy5n81kHcUAW1f5RUsEuyTnoeKqK3yil3VIGmZVJBIGQciqGqz7wkS+u41C1yV61XL GWYsaqwGtZyhLZF9KqXIJvy+OGxim7iq8GozckHmkgNcThVA9BWTE++eRwDgsTUb3LMpVe9W NPkjhRzKM5ximBMsmDkcEVK1+U4aIk+1Urq5SSdfKyFAwfrTWnZetKwGpFdF13Muz0BrP1Gb zbhFH8IqBrpsfL1pkSln3N1pgacCggFun86lnvUgj4GW7KKz2uSvWm/ax/kUWAYm+aYyPySc 1czVVrrIwKXzTSYDjE5H3ab9nP8AdNKZZR1b9BSefJ/e/QUgFETDotKYWbqtN8+T+9+go8+T +9+goAPs5/umgQMD92k8+T+9+gpfPk/vfoKLgKYG/u0CBh/DSefJ/e/QUefJ/e/QUAOMb9Nt N+zsf4aTz5P736Cl8+T+9+goAUQsOimgwM3Vab58n979BS+fJ/e/QUAOETgYCmm+QxOdtHny f3v0FHnyf3v0FADxG+OlHlv6Go/Pk/vfoKXz5P736CgBzQs3UUiwMP4aTz5P736Cj7RJ/e/Q UAP8t/SmtAx/hpPPk/vfoKPPk/vfoKAAQMP4DTxE+MbaZ58n979BR58n979BQAv2dgc7aDCx /hNN8+T+9+gpfPk/vfoKAD7OR/DThG4/hNM+0Sf3v0FHnyf3v0FADmhZuqmm/Zz/AHTR58n9 79BR58n979BQAfZ2/u07yX/umm/aJP736Cj7RJ/e/QUAW7PT/Mj33QPPRMkY9z/h/kWP7MtP +ebf99t/jUUGrRuR56eSGXcp3ZBHP+FWUu4z5Yf5DISEB/i/H/PtnrTaaAj/ALMtP+ebf99t /jR/Zlp/zzb/AL7b/GrdFICp/Ztp/wA82/77b/Gj+zLT/nm3/fbf41L9rg2yt5gxEcP7Gozq NosauZhtbIBwe1OzAT+zbT/nm3/fbf40f2Zaf88z/wB9t/jU1vcw3KkwuGxweMYqlPeXf26S 3too32AHnrjA9/ehJgT/ANmWn/PNv++2/wAaP7NtP+ebf99t/jU0VwkjmMkLMoBdM9M/zpj3 1sisWlA2Nsbg8H/IosAz+zLT/nm3/fbf40f2Zaf882/77b/Gnw31tcSeXFKC3XGCP51YpWsB U/sy0/55n/vtv8aP7MtP+ebf99t/jUs93BbY86QKT26n8qfFLHMgeJwy+oosBX/s20/55t/3 23+NH9mWn/PNv++2/wAat1DPdwW2POkCk9up/KgCL+zLT/nmf++2/wAaP7NtP+ebf99t/jT/ ALfa+SJfOXYePf8ALrUkFxFcLuhkDDvjqPwp2YEH9mWn/PNv++2/xo/s20/55t/323+NW6hn u4LbHnSBSe3U/lSAi/sy0/55n/vtv8aP7MtP+ebf99t/jT2vI/sj3EWZVXsvX/61RWuoGa48 maB4XIyobv8ApTswHf2Zaf8APNv++2/xo/sy0/55t/323+NTPcwxzrC7gSNyAR1/Gknu4LbH nSBSe3U/lSsBF/Ztp/zzb/vtv8aP7MtP+eZ/77b/ABqxFNHMm+Jwy+oqA6jaCTYZ1znHGSPz 6U7MBP7MtP8Anmf++2/xo/sy0/55n/vtv8at0ySeOOREdwrScKD3pAV/7MtP+ebf99t/jR/Z lp/zzP8A323+NSrdwPcGBZAZB1WpqAOfmW2jvBHCry4Yp5bHgc9Ae3Jx379ODU01xHcyae8a 7QJNpX+6crxWjJYwyRKhyCpyHXhgf8/54qI6TbGBYsuNpLbs8nP/AOoflWnMhF6qVrbJHezy x3AcNndGP4Tnv+tPtLCOzdmjeQ7hghiMVHbWjx6lcTlQqMMKAc5zyT+n61IzKcMbq5Ds625m /elRnHJxVvU0VTZJbojLk7F6g9P51oxWkUUkzqCfO5ZTyP8APNRLpsKlMNJiN96Anhfb6VXN qIq6VE/2y4kkCxuo2mNVxjP9OKkg/wCQ9cf9cx/7LVtrWNrlbhSySDglf4h6GqU8N5FqMlxb RI4dQOT06e49KV7sCKRrhNanNqiu+0ZDemB70/Sl82W9E6KSWG5SMjOTV+K3X7R9qKlJXQBl zkDp/hUUmm28nm53jzWDHB6Hnp+Zo5lawFfQ40Nu0hRS4cgNjkcDvU9xbJJqEMouBHKv8Hdh n/8AXRbaZDazCWOSXIGMEjB/Sku7R5r+2lVQFQ5Z8+hyBj/PWhu7GRCJZtclEyb1EeVDdO3/ ANei0KprFzHFtEe0HCgYyMf4mrl1aRXcYSUHg8MOoqCytZbOZkUI0DZO/ow9Af8AP+FF9AL1 ZFpBHNqd0bgbnVvlV/TnnH0x+da9V7qyguwPMU7hwGU4IqU7AUZ7WL+2LdPJURMucBcAkZP+ FP8Akh1yJIQiKY8MFAHqf8KnTTLdLd4DvZWOcseQfUVFb2MlldZgCPE+Axf7yj/P+e9VdCNG se3gWbULwygNKpPlrJ074JHp0/Otiq91ZQXYHmKdwGAy8EVKdhlXTm877TG0SQSDCsYuPX9R zzUVtGttq/lySefI6cOeqn8/QVbj023jt5YRvIkxuJPPHSi20y3tmZl3sxGAWPI+mKq61Ax7 i6WW5ln3P5isPJI6AA981dt9l5qpklQMhiDKG5A6f1z+NaFvaRW0BhQFlOSd3OajfToHtxAd 21WJU55XPYH0+tPmQjNuDsuL+O3wE2DIQehGen1Oav2FpbfY428tJCwyWYA896LK0ls5mRQj QNk7+jD0B/z/AIUkukWsjlhvjz2Q8Um1sBeRFjRUUYVRgD2rL1nf51p5X+s3Hb9cjFaigKoA zgDHJzUU9tHO8TvndE25SDUxdncZV0iOIRu4Ja4JxLv+8D6VbN1bqxVp4gQcEFxxTJLVTOLh CVlAxwcB/Y8ViHTL5mJaIkk5JLjn9apJSe4joqKKKgYUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH//2Q== --------------090706070903070403020500-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26050 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:52:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:52:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22418 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:52:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:52:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hy60-0006gM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:26:04 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hy5y-0006g0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:26:03 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2001.07.26.11.50.p9) with ESMTP id <0GSG00LHBJKRBH@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:38:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Antenna experiments To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5193537.1015259920013.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys, Having a rather unfavourable situation on the side of a hill topped with 30 metre trees, I have been struggling for some time to improve my antenna. According to the deeds the back garden has a slope of 34 degrees, but it looks more like 45 degrees to me. The garden is 25 metres square and at the end, one is on the same level as the house roof. I have a 7 metre mast at the high end and attach a wire to the house ridge at the other about 8 metres above ground, but because of the slope of the land this wire is on average only about 6 metres above ground and is limited to 20 metres in length because of proximity effects from trees and house. A semi-vertical wire hangs from roughly the middle down to the loading coil some metres away from the house. Recently I bought a Funktechnik 10m fibre glass mast from Sycom, with the idea of propping up the middle, but the mast tapers from 51mm at the bottom to 2mm at the top, and despite all my efforts to provide a frictionless loop at the top to allow the horizontal wire to pass through, the whole thing did a vertical u-turn. Realising this wasn't going to work, I came up with the idea to allow the new mast to stand alongside the semi-horizontal wire at the highest point in the garden consistent with being at least 6 metres away from the trees, and to run a wire up the new mast from the level of the passing horizontal wire and to join these two at that point, with a loose loop to allow for movement during the frequent gales that we get here. Rather than just run a 4 metre wire up to the top, I wound 30 metres of wire over these 4 metres to form a helix. In the initial version I put the top section of a G whip at the very top, but this burnt out and fell off. Interestingly it was the fibre glass that burnt, it is black and perhaps the filler is carbon?? I found that these 4 metres are contributing about 60pF to the capacity, so more than 4 metres of straight wire (20pF) but less than 30 metres of wire (150pF). All figs approx. Results are a little unclear at the moment, Jim M0BMU measured my sigs at 10 uV/metre at 63 km. Many thanks Jim. That is exactly S8, and gives an EIRP of 13mW and an ERP of 8mW. Despite the changes the resistance at resonance is unchanged at 93 ohms and with 200 watts out, I calculated a Radiation Resistance of 6mOhm. However Dave G3YXM thought my sigs unchanged. The proof of the pudding is as they say in the eating, but it looks to me as though I have gained about 1 S point. When the weather gets a bit better and my back stops aching I plan to increase the amount of wire in the helix and reduce the straight bit below, maybe also to increase the diameter of the helix. Also thinking how to add some top loading, perhaps some very fine wire with little weight, but it might break too easily. I would be grateful for any reports so that I can assess the success or failure of this approach, but for a confined space this seems to be a useful arrangement. Apologies if this email is too long. 73, John, G4CNN, having fun. ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27138 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:35:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 8772 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:35:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hxpx-0006ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:09:29 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hxpv-0006cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:09:28 +0000 Received: from modem-3.dunlendings.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.161.131] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hwJ3-0003HE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:31:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c1c3a2$a2ef6200$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz tonight. Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:32:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, 73 looks pretty clear tonight (monthly maintenance ?) So I will try some Jason on 71.8kHz. Look for me for 5/10mins on the hour starting 1800 utc. I will look for CW replies on 136.5+/- initially . 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16305 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:19:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:19:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1351 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 17:19:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 17:19:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hxNh-0006WW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:40:17 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hxNg-0006WQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:40:16 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-55.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.55] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16hvf6-0002jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:50:09 +0000 Message-ID: <3C83A819.D73F7D7C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:00:10 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anyone ever tried a large multi turn loop that resonates directly on a LF of interest. Most amateurs cannot get a full size one wavelength loop installed for 160 metres but a 40 metre loop is manageable, so instead of a 1 turn loop on this freq make it 4 turns plus or minus to get it to resonate on 160 metres. ie just a large diameter resonant 160m coil used as an antenna. This principle could be used on 136 khz for instance, the same 40 m dimensions but with as many turns as nessary to resonate it on the lower freq of interest. There will be practical differences and it will probably not work out at x N turns because of capacitance etc, but the approach to achieve resonance is the criteria on the lower freqs. When I say large loop I mean some thing like 40 m and nothing too large, but sufficient size to have a chance of working and keep the Q reasonable. The loop would be hanging vertically and the bottom wire at least 6 feet(2m) off the ground. Maybe someone has already tried this procedure. I know there are multi turn small loops of various configurations, series wound, parallel wound, series tuned, parallel tuned etc and preamps but I do not recall any research figures published for large multi turn loops. When I get time I intend to put up a large loop and instead of a single turn suitably resonated on 136 khz I am thinking along the lines of the series multi turn loop. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11154 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 13:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 13:25:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28336 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 13:25:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 13:25:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16htwf-0005xU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:00:09 +0000 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16htwe-0005xP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:00:08 +0000 Received: from [62.21.130.163] (helo=w8k3f0.freeler.nl) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hsPl-0003SZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304141458.009f4810@POP3.freeler.nl> X-Sender: FRE0000086604@POP3.freeler.nl X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:25:33 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Dick Rollema" Subject: Re: LF: Anything to get on the air... In-reply-to: References: <002501c1c294$4a8eb7a0$295f073e@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit To All from PA0SE

Mike WE0H wrote:
:
I agree with Dave G3YMC as to getting on the air with whatever it takes.
Many people don't have the property to put up a good antenna. I myself have
too many trees to make a vertical work on LF, so I am building the Ashlock
loops. It doesn't matter if you have a big antenna or big amp or the best
radios, this is a hobby to enjoy with whatever we can have. If you have a
weak signal, it doesn't matter. Just enjoy being on LF, as it is better than
not being able to operate on LF at all. By using low power or having a weak
signal, it may advance the new software development, as there is a need for
it with signals below the noise floor. Just look at the US operators on LF,
they most likely could have never achieved the 2000+ mile receptions with
the legal 1-w, without using all of this great software that so many of you
generous people develop and give to us free of charge. Everyone can along
from the rich to the poor and from the best-equipped station to the
compromised station. Maybe just consider working the weaker signal stations
as a great accomplishment on your part as being able to decode their signal.
It is like chasing that rare DX station on HF that is barely readable. These
are my comments and I welcome feedback both good and bad.

I consider Mike's  remarks a  fine example of the following item of The Amateur's Code:

quote:

The Radio Amateur is:

FRIENDLY...slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and consel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spririt.

unquote

73, Dick, PA0SE

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15963 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 12:55:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 12:55:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26386 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 12:55:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 12:55:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16htM7-0005sL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:22:23 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16htM5-0005sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:22:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16hrpD-0004pC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:44:19 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hrpC-0001u0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:44:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304114102.00aa6498@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:40:54 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Noise Cancelling RX antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I have been having problems with local mains-generated QRM from an unknown source which made it impossible to copy the weaker signals on the band. Over the weekend I tried out a noise cancelling system which seems to more or less solve the problem. I first tried using various antennas I already had as "signal" and "noise" antennas, with the HF type phasing circuits that have been around for a while. I found that it was possible to null the noise, but the bandwidth of the null was at best a few 100 Hz; changing frequency or re-tuning the antenna meant complete re-adjustment of the phasing network was required, which was not easy because the noise level varies rapidly and makes it hard to tell if the null has been found. So the system was not very practical. Thinking about it, the problem compared to HF is that the LF antennas and phasing networks are relatively very narrow band, and so phase and amplitude of the signals changes rapidly with frequency. In order to get a null, the noise signals from the 2 antennas must be equal in amplitude and 180degrees out of phase when the signals are combined, therefore a null is obtained only over a narrow bandwidth. I decided the solution would be to use two identical, matched, loop antennas with fairly wide bandwidth, in combination with differential phase shift networks (similar to those used for the LO in a phasing SSB exciter), so that the whole system has a reasonably constant relative phase over a considerable bandwidth. I made 2 tuned loop antennas with 2m sides from 15mm copper water pipe. These have low noise pre-amps and a bandwidth of about 30kHz, and by themselves have more than adequate sensitivity to hear the external noise in a quiet band. One is located at the end of my garden nearest the noise source, while the "signal" antenna is positioned at the opposite end of the garden. Both loops are oriented to null the Loran signal form Lessay, which at the same time gives quite good Europe/NA coverage at my QTH. The signals are each passed through RC phase shift networks tuned by a dual gang pot, arranged so that as the phase shift of one increases, the other decreases. The phase shift networks are buffered to prevent loading effects. The relative phase can be varied over a range of about +/-120degrees, and a transformer and switch gives a further 0/180degree shift means any phase shift can be nulled. The "noise" antenna signal also passes through a variable attenuator, and the two signals are combined in a transformer and fed to the RX. In operation, once the null is found it seems to be quite stable, and covers the whole amateur band without adjustment. While operating, there was no noticeable interaction with the TX vertical, although one of the loops is directly under it (the TX ant is de-tuned on receive). Without noise cancelling, the normal mains noise is about 10-15dB above the natural band noise, with peaks up to 30 - 40 dB. After nulling, the normal mains noise is inaudible, while the peaks can still be heard but are obviously much weaker. The system is still in the breadboard phase, but is certainly a huge improvement over the situation before - it is entertaining to switch the noise antenna on and off and hear the change in noise level! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11666 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 10:18:13 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 10:18:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9572 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 10:18:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 10:18:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hqzc-0005Vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:51:00 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hqzb-0005Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:50:59 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16hpSb-000I4y-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:12:50 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:59:35 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Chirpy-puzzle In-reply-to: <16hdWW-1lUlQOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe Are you by any chance the Uwe Janssen who I met in Las Vegas last October and previously in Amsterdam? 73, Tom G3OLB In message <16hdWW-1lUlQOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com>, jannsen <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> writes >Hi gents, > >see attachment: which of the pics do you interprete as 5Hz- and >which as 10Hz-Chirp-Hell ? > >regards >Uwe/dj8wx >[ A MIME image / jpeg part was included here. ] > -- Tom Boucher Telemetry Consultants Limited 10 Market Square Chesham Buckinghamshire HP5 1ES UK Tel: (44)(0)1494 792433 Fax: (44)(0)1494 792533 Mobile:07932-615232 www.telemetry.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19926 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 04:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 04:37:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12378 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 04:37:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 04:37:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hlj0-0004qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 06:13:30 +0000 Received: from out008pub.verizon.net ([206.46.170.108] helo=out008.verizon.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hliy-0004qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 06:13:28 +0000 Received: from verizon.net ([141.156.20.193]) by out008.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020304043520.TCMX12982.out008.verizon.net@verizon.net>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:35:20 -0600 Message-ID: <3C82F9C4.C3E117F2@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:36:20 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TX loops anyone??? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WE0H wrote: > I would like to know who is experimenting with transmit loops and how big > they are using??? Also, how are you matching the feedline to the loop??? > Many thanks, > Mike>WE0H > http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html see for instance: a) Terman's Radio Engineer's Handbook, page 148 b) The RSGB's "Low Frequency Experiment's Handbook" 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29823 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 04:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 04:04:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 837 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 04:04:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hl9R-0004kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:36:45 +0000 Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.204]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hl9P-0004kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:36:43 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d25.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.224]) by mail5.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g2440dV01255 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: Re LF: Transmit loops Anyone ??? Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:59:42 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <96.22a4c935.29b42239@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, For our Part-5 experimenters license, there is no antenna limit. That is why I will be putting up a big loop for such use and I already have a legal vertical for Part-15 use. I hope that the FCC will get off their butts and give us the two bands without any antenna limits. Power doesn't matter as the Lowfers have proven. It should be fun to work regular QSO's on LF when it all gets settled upon. The Europeans want to work across the pond more frequently. It will be possible with the antenna restrictions lifted and just a bit more power. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Carmelink@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 7:05 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re LF: Transmit loops Anyone ??? Hi Mike, For the unlicensed US lowfers, the main barrier to big TX antennas is rather significant: FCC 15.207(b) "The total length of the transmission line, antenna, and ground lead (if used) shall not exceed 15 meters. " Despite the lowfer urban myth, I'm afraid there are no exemptions for huge "non-radiating" horizontal sections in tees and loops, so the 15-meter rule leaves you somewhat limited. Keep rooting for an LF ham band. 73 Mike W2AG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25458 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 01:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 01:07:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26732 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 01:07:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 01:07:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hiRu-0004OK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:43:38 +0000 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.97]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hiRt-0004OE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:43:37 +0000 Received: from Carmelink@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.96.22a4c935 (5709) for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:04:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from web40.aolmail.aol.com (web40.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.1]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id MAILINID42-0303200457; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:04:57 -0500 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:04:56 EST From: Carmelink@aol.com Subject: Re LF: Transmit loops Anyone ??? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <96.22a4c935.29b42239@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, For the unlicensed US lowfers, the main barrier to big TX antennas is rather significant: FCC 15.207(b) "The total length of the transmission line, antenna, and ground lead (if used) shall not exceed 15 meters. " Despite the lowfer urban myth, I'm afraid there are no exemptions for huge "non-radiating" horizontal sections in tees and loops, so the 15-meter rule leaves you somewhat limited. Keep rooting for an LF ham band. 73 Mike W2AG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27210 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 00:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 00:26:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 9385 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2002 00:26:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2002 00:26:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hhmJ-0004Hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:00:39 +0000 Received: from mail2.mx.lnng.mi.voyager.net ([216.93.66.201] helo=mail2.mx.voyager.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hhmI-0004HX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 02:00:38 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d42.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.241]) by mail2.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g240MUa39998 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TX loops anyone??? Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:23:32 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: High Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would like to know who is experimenting with transmit loops and how big they are using??? Also, how are you matching the feedline to the loop??? Many thanks, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18725 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 21:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 21:32:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24090 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 21:32:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 21:32:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hf3V-0003to-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:06:13 +0000 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hf3U-0003tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:06:12 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16hdWb-0008E7-06; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:28:09 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.15]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16hdWW-1lUlQOC; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:28:04 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Chirpy-puzzle X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040809070007020904060404" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:28:04 +0100 Message-ID: <16hdWW-1lUlQOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040809070007020904060404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi gents, see attachment: which of the pics do you interprete as 5Hz- and which as 10Hz-Chirp-Hell ? regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------040809070007020904060404 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="CHIRP.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="CHIRP.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CACAAP8DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE hYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk 5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwW1gN1dRW6sqtKwQFjgAngZPpWtc+GdSt 0UrZ3EhZQx8pCwGRnHT2rN06SKHUraSdtsSyKXIGcDPJr2rw9qCajYiSeNVWMoA21FVgwwvX nr9CTjGea6qNCM6Up7tOKtt8Tt27tHl5pjqmDpqpCKa6/oeSt4bvYdPM80Eiysu6OEKd/DhT lcfjx6g1jEFTggg+hr2qM2+u6TDdRyxC9toi8j8JGvKsQw/u4A5PbOSDXl+qaLL/AGjKljDJ IiEI/BOHAAbJ6defxqsVhHRu+zs79+nya1TLwGO+spxmuWcd1+oyPw3qU9pHc28HnJIFICHL Ddnkj8PyI/B7eGdQSxW4kgdHOf3TAhiQQAAMe4P0BrufB96YHs7DyxtdAJxLGQVZflwC3GM4 HHOfxqfxTqYtb63t1MJIEbxqyqWL7wrhtvsD04z+VarCU5JNN25Oa/nfltt/Np6GLx9ZY76r yq2979Dhp/DF0mlpNDbyzXBKCREXdtDLuHAHXG3Ppmobbw1qt6rl7R4Cu0DzYygOSB6dq9RI bT/C0l7psTT3TwxuIpAsmWwFyAvsF744456s8O315rMci6pZNbL5WSPJER3bjnBPOcAH8T7V UsFCHM3e0dG/SylZW2vtd7anHLO6nLKrGC5Iu2+v3Hl9h4cur63MiD5sttQHlgApyBjodwwf emSeHru31OOymaPc6O+5W4AUEnJI9Fz+Ir0Pw75R8QXNnDHmLM0McqBT5e3aFxn5T8qKeh5H pmqOvW5n8XfbYLcvZqjK2z7h3xDbjaf4t2M5x796t5Y1U9jZuSSbttrJx9el9TvhmSlinRas uXmv620OWfwfqCSRrKsUYchR8xGWO0ADI9WH5N6UXHhS5isorldnlFC7uWPI+Y8cei/qPWvT 9ZiS40/S5okXLXEUpcFcBdjHt74P4cdKh+zxav4S+w2qILpI4EZDhQp+UlQevKn1545zms4Y WjKKd2tUntpdyjd+V0l5N27HHHOpujCrKFk5cr8ttfxPMNP8M3Wp2MU9uAXbLEE8bd20Hp6g /gDWdqNk9jOkTlN7Rhm2HIB5yPqMYr1jwxp66RYedOrLaJBszJgupDs+GXrkh+MDOM5xxXmv ioD+3riRNvkys0sQU8BGYlcenHP41GJwkaMZJv3k0ultU27emn367o7sLj3iMROnFe7Hr59j 7F8Cf8k88Nf9gq1/9FLXQVz/AIE/5J54a/7BVr/6KWugrgPSCiivI/ivq2var4s0DwH4Z1CT TdQvEe9kuxM8I2qsm1N6EnHySEjb1Cc9aAPXKK4P4QeK5vFvw+tLi7MjXlk5sriR8nzWQKQ+ SSSSrISTjLbuMYrvKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKAPgW2t3urqK3QqrSOFBc4Az 3J9K9k0aI2vhD51KyRxeY2QoP7shhndz6YPTuCDg14/p8kcWo27zPsjVwWbGcD1xXoVx8QIY U+zx2cdyogIcYCg9MqQU6EAZ6124aUYxvzJPmi7O9rJ36J63SPGznD4jEQhCjG+t3rbbY3fD 9qul6PML3Yn2hVUrwW2uoUFlbnBKkAY57jrVfQLW2vLy+WdMjzWddpC7t5B5z1wpXisS48YQ ajZ/bzEUaBF3RA8FvNG0Egc4AJHBxvNY/h/xIltG6XE0yyo6ypIGJ3ndGNp74wpHcc114rGU 68pRbXv7tJ2jo4x31dk/edvTY56WXYl0alRy5as+z2s+67+p22mWcieI55Hh8q2ijkMe5QMs JAx5PH8JPXg+lc94wdZPGlkyIuwXEce1Sp3fMGPQ4wd3f8auj4h28l68Bt18vdIokIHzDBwc be56/XvXK6xrkTanZyQr5zWsqTPKeDKwVM9RkDKn/CjEYulyS5LapRSV/wCbmu7pei9WVgMH inivb4hWsrb3v0uemtL/AGZokI0y3e5DbU3ORIGGwHcMHhRjoMdzjoaf4cu7nVNOjk1GIWs2 csioIyMl1AOecEYP1A7cHjrbxtFpWlL5aG4LOhWJjjywYwCASD0x2/vGp7fx4t/Y3LG3+yBd gd1wxXLHkYUdOvr1/GakqNT7au3fmd+ZXd/5Wrxj7qtK3yPMqZTi7Spqmm2/jvr+Zu+F4oIb h3UFZXkbYpxvIDbc8+xGTnn8ebdxp3kxGMTLGqMrHd5QPlKp5fjAHy44xjjsOOAs/Fy/alaV TbGDDiRXJyQyZXgZwdv61rXPjW1udXtXdn8gq6P8gKuh3D5hjnjBxg9cetdFPH3rSr06ii3f SSb2cnG1unvW8rOyeh043KsVLEe0pappfeltr/Wup1OsJHs0+03PFbb5IpFUqGVQjbSNvTtj 6juTUejQLo+mi51GVk810MW1gx4RSoPctwfXj061yl/4vtZtUjmDNIjSIkiEFQgOMsBjBJ5B 78d6sP4vtZ7K0t7lsiFkIcxg5dQQeMemz/vv2NcsasOXlclsuZ2et3KclHTa7S11a0KWW4r6 rTw72bvOz1W39fcdFp93F4j0iURyL9owqusWBCH55B75A9SQAOnNeWeJ4FgvrfYQVa3BGHLj AZl4JJ44rd8KeJLbQdM+aX5pNu5Np+XDkFuh/hb9MVheJ7mO6vbZ4ceWLfChVwB87nAH41ni qlOpTbi1umkr3V0+ZbWsmla1z0MuwdXC1qsP+Xbs4/qfYngT/knnhr/sFWv/AKKWugrn/An/ ACTzw1/2CrX/ANFLXQV5564V4f4U8C6p4z8UeJfF2s3viPw/Jc3Zhslgb7FcmAAYEg2cqFEQ GCclGzkjNe4UUAeP+DvDWqeAvjDqNhEuq3+hazaCb7dLH52J1y2Z5toAbIm6Zz5iZyTkewUU UAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAfMA/Zx8YA5GpaGD/13m/8AjVKP2cPF2DnU9EB7 Yml/+N159/wnfjD/AKGvXP8AwYzf/FUf8J34w/6GvXP/AAYzf/FUAegn9nLxec51HQsnuJ5R /wC0qQfs4+MAcjUtDB/67zf/ABqvP/8AhO/GH/Q165/4MZv/AIqj/hO/GH/Q165/4MZv/iqA PQT+zl4xLFv7T0PJ6/v5f/jVIf2cfF/bUtD/AO/8v/xqvP8A/hO/GH/Q165/4MZv/iqP+E78 Yf8AQ165/wCDGb/4qgD0D/hnHxh/0EtD/wC/83/xqnf8M6eMf+gloI+k0o/9pV57/wAJ34w/ 6GvXP/BjN/8AFUf8J34w/wChr1z/AMGM3/xVAHoH/DOPjD/oJaH/AN/5v/jVPH7O/jRUVBqu ibVO4Dz5uD/36rzz/hO/GH/Q165/4MZv/iqP+E78Yf8AQ165/wCDGb/4qgD0Fv2dPGTnLano ZP8A13l/+NUn/DOXjHJP9p6Hk9/Pm/8AjVef/wDCd+MP+hr1z/wYzf8AxVH/AAnfjD/oa9c/ 8GM3/wAVQB6B/wAM4+MP+gloX/f+X/41Sv8As5+MHct/aOhDPbz5eP8AyFXn3/Cd+MP+hr1z /wAGM3/xVH/Cd+MP+hr1z/wYzf8AxVAH2X4a02bRvCukaXcNG09lZQ28jRklSyIFJGQDjI9B WpXxB/wnfjD/AKGvXP8AwYzf/FUf8J34w/6GvXP/AAYzf/FUAfb9FfEH/Cd+MP8Aoa9c/wDB jN/8VR/wnfjD/oa9c/8ABjN/8VQB9v0V8Qf8J34w/wChr1z/AMGM3/xVH/Cd+MP+hr1z/wAG M3/xVAH2/RXxB/wnfjD/AKGvXP8AwYzf/FUf8J34w/6GvXP/AAYzf/FUAfb9FfEH/Cd+MP8A oa9c/wDBjN/8VR/wnfjD/oa9c/8ABjN/8VQB9v0V8Qf8J34w/wChr1z/AMGM3/xVbngvxp4q uvHXh63uPEuszQS6nbJJHJfysrqZVBBBbBBHGKAPsOiiigAooooAKKKKAPhLQLaC812zt7lN 8Dvh1yRkY9ua310bSrq9WG1t93mljEN7DKgn1PsetYGgXMFnrtncXL7IEfLtgnAx7c12ugxQ zaslzbrm2EiC2bJHyGYK/B56Mw55547V7OUwwko1HiE21ay06u3XzaenS5zYqdSFNyh0T/Iy /wDhHrLymk+y/IsgiJ8w8McYHX3FWLHw3pkzSCS0zkPHH+8b/WAE46/7J9uK2757O0s9RiJ2 ulx5gHJwy9T+HlP/AN8+4zDbJPDZbAMXreTLCOOWcuJD6cq3f14r2JYLBTg6aVptabLo9e9k 1qzjp4qu1ztK10uuzt/nf0PPL7Sb7TY4ZLuDy1mGYzvU5H4GqVem3dlayw6Yuux5RhGYRuPK GMZ+5/tg9f5V5zexCC/uIVXaI5WUDOcYJFfM4zBzws7S1TvZrZ28/wAz0KNWNWCnEgroPDum 2d7ZX8l3FvZWijhO4jDMTxwfQd65+ui8PalY2Wn30d3LsdnjkiG1jllPXgehPWssP7P20Pa/ DdX9Llyvyvl3L8Wg2Ey3LR22RbAmb943y9ffnoelLJoemWbW73lvshlbg72OQCM9D710Wk28 a2F3bypi+v4Zwq5++6I2fYYbPpVXWnsYLayGpHascrL/ABHCl2P8P+wE/wD15r66eGy2CcpR fKvKN7X5b+nN17eZ5UcVXeI9k0t136xb/NNHE63ZRQeIbmzs49sYlCRpuJ64xyf61r6T4cWB 7yPWrTa/2YywDzM9OSflPp61Ruri3vvGgmt2328t2m04IyMj15rvJYPtts1yi73P7hWzj5HZ lxj3GBnrXzmW4aGIrP2jtFK/+Xy01PRr1lSim+rS+/Q5x/DNqk7QtaYkUAkeYeAc47+xpr+H LOONpHtcKoJJ8w8AfjW/q1zC9+bmyfMciKC2Dz/EOD/suv51Qe5dom89/wBwCvm8fwFgD056 HtX0kMHgnNQcHfbZf16HBSq4ucIz92zSfUzbvw7Zt4flmtLX/S90bofMP+rbIzycdQfeuXls Z7bURZXEe2YOqlNwPXGORx3r1G/tRDawJbJiJyYXGeoSRSo59Edvz9cVwl8TN4xtWk5MhtWf 3JRCf514OZ4OFOP1ml8Em0k99PTTe/4HVhcR7VNPdXv8m1+hv6p4Z0y2dmis9scSL5v71jhs ZPf09K53xLp9ppr2kMEXlzbGM43E87jjqcdPSvSGjgvLS7mnG+GUQ4PIyS7oenPeMf5Ncd4t 0m81LxAhsoPMjlj3RfOBnCKX6n1bv61riMNRWBUopqcbX237d790ZUsTOWJlSeyv+Ci1/wCl fgYPhnT49T8RWdpNF5sLsTIu7blQCTyCD2roJvDtgLpI47XiaR0hHmNztOD37e9ReEtMutK1 y0vr6Hyrd96I+4Nk7TkYBJ+6GrtJ7OACylSP95a3knmnJ+UNIjn6/u2J49fWssoo0ZVpQxCe ui20et9/lf8A4YvHYidGMXDq3/6S2vxVjyvW7e2g1maKyXbbnYYxkngqD35711mq+GdOsUWQ 2exEjTzT5rHDn8f5VzXiGNbfxFIoG1FEW3vwEWvTtRk02V2tr45E7xBFw3zZz3HTtU5dRpPF ShUTaSemjen6l16s404ygt2vuZ5t4j022077MkEXlv8AOsw3E/MMHufRh0qnoNmmoa3a2skf mJIxBXOM8E9a7nWLHT5r9BqMec5n+833WhTn5f8AaRuPb6Vm2mn21mqLYRbNcinfHzE4XJA6 nb90irxGVVp4n2dKLSls2nZerS0t+qChiYzoRqya2uwl8M2X2ry47Th5HWMeY3O1tp79jUOh W9va/FvQIrRNtv8A2pZNGMk8M8bd+e9dN9otnGl3CNkqss07YPG5ozn/AL6J6Vzmjo0fxc8O xsMMl/p6MPQjygf1FbZthaFGjTlBWk91on933feZ4SvUqylzLRXt8pSX5JH2VRRRXgncFFFe f/8AC7fh5/0MP/klcf8AxugD0CiqelarY65pdvqemXMdzZ3Cb4pU6MP5gg5BB5BBBwRVygD4 Art/C810+nRCzbLxJIvQcPnenX3wfT1rmtAtoLzXbO3uU3wO+HXJGRj25rt9GSyiW4GljCI5 duvC748H5v8AYEv/AOvFexk1CpOs5xjdJPpom07X+aObFTUIa91+LSZa8VQxrd3TQr+4PnmY 5/iaJ5F689HY8ev0rO0dtYF3B/aZ+bbGyfc/1YDn+H6J7/rWnrTpd6ZYeWd893DE0/be3lbG 9h8uRx/OkubmCK8067L4szG+58H/AFYVVXjr1b6817MMHWq4inN3Simtbq+t7ed+Zpeluh5t HERhgoxWsmvxSfz+yP8AEjwSaVZgHN3GuyDrxtkxj06Eda4SS2gm8bzwTputzfOJFyR8gc56 c9M10st9FDd2UmtybbRlDRnaTlsAyfd5++O/4cVy9jMbzxZ5obe1xO+04xuLZx9Mk15ebzov 2dCEr2bbd00ubl0XpbVdGd+CoujTcX3f4tv9ToovDOnzXsgjs8wxyhX/AHjcAnjvnoa53xNZ 2dlq2ywj2WzIGQZJzyR357V6Jphjg/tWW5+WPcrKev3Nm/p6DP8ASuTttLbVbSK4vYfNcLtV t23gH2I7k11Y3KVV1wi0XXo/Sy1d/wBTHD4xtyVfS1vLdJ9fmddorW7amr3B5jvZEgPPEcrl O3q28c8j24rmvFMM76W5u1zLFGGPI4fciHp7+YPT9K2YZohFp81s372bdJnB5MbGQnn0JY+/ vWX4lkkuNBubsndFMW2NjGf3+4cfQ5rbMIyo4aU5faSVnur36dPeT+fmRQTqYl1LaWt84ykv yZwlvK0FzFMrbWjcMDjOCDmvUtLuxunjL/6LFFHMRjpsYlz68EN/SvK4wGkUHoSAa9V0u2ig 1K7t7pNsbq8G3JOQ3mkDj6rzXn5NGlKNXnetlZLd6/195rmUnGjzJXtr92pDP9gjcQDgoOR8 3GPkH6IB+FFvFp9xIYJF3RyAhhlhkDn+YFU5dt/f3FxZ/Pb5Cq3TnJJ6896cga0lR5Pk35RD 1yxU4FfQ89bRqlrZPVPmvZP70zldCnrD2zT1+0a1w8rabbqxzNEYjL04d2VG9udjjj0+lcBr DrbeKoZc7UjFs2euAsaf4V399LGt7dwIfv3EIjXB5COrn8vMz+PtXnnipGj16SNxhkjjVh6E IAa8PO4qFOEE9Luy8vQ6MufNGU+W17P70n+bZ6Hpfnm2ubS46JBKUTjh1dXj5H+6x/DntVCS WX7VKiH/AEy1SWOMYHyl3jWMehyvH860dLMn9uymb/j2DsJP9xhKF6c/xR/n9aoyRlYjf4/e veobh/WFFVjx7MpPHPFetCmsRW5dHB2lpte6du217r06HH7R0a03Jau1vVqS/wDbV+BCGcaZ GJT84hNxa/TyG3n/AL6J4P4VsQvNdaXtQ7rsTKbroPmMbofb78Sjj09DznT+Q2lX7J9+2i8u 36/LE25SPfp35q1c3cVlrF3b2j7BNcII1wTnDBz19pHP4+wqp4aKTlTSUm2/LRK/3pJ+qbKq 4h1pRppO6a/OP6S/pHn/AIrGdYWT/npErZ9QCQP0FdFpqatd3anVhudBGYvuDDYYr938OtYX jFPK1aCLGGjtlVx6Nls13GmlG1TTfO5SQsZPcIFC9PQE14OX03XxlStB2SbenVX2Xqv0O7F1 lhqF7Xdnb5Jv9Ck09pcLZXuotuie1VC+CM7Q6uML7so/HjvUyRWgvre9hH7xifNfJ5beuOP9 3d0rMBt7FNPTW/k08qyqOTzuy/3eeoX+lN0zWrCc2Nt9o3TPdMHXYwypf5ecY6V72JzTCUa/ sbt+atZbWW/lqv5rHKsDOUeZO26t0trbT0ZFcjUbBLuyl+S5Fukdsnyn5t6lxnp0Xv8AhUWi rcr8XdAF4MXH9qWW/p13pnpxXTavHZ3N5dTkbp0s5ZkbkYO2LB9Opf8Azis+SGOL40+Gyi4M l/Zu3PU+cB/QV4mfQfNTrNv3r3v3T6eTR05fXVWntZ2TfzVz62ooorwDvCvmz4Va14osPhpr Vto3gqPXbN7icyTSXSbQxhQFDARulGADgfe3YHNfSdeR6H8I/FHhrRrnSdG+IklnZ3Ds8ix6 Sm7cyhSQ5k3KcKOQRjGRg0ASfs8w28fw1keC686SXUJXnTyyvkvtQBMn73yhWyP7+OoNesVz fgbwZY+BfDUej2MkkxLma4nfgzSkAFsZwowoAA6ADJJyT0lAHwloFzBZ67Z3Fy+yBHy7YJwM e3NdFDrmlWL3Is7jYkvy/cY5XJ9RXWf8M4+MP+glof8A3/m/+NUf8M4+MP8AoJaH/wB/5v8A 41Xbg8fWwnN7N6Pff/Pp0IqU41FaSuckfEVmRADdcQKFj/dn5QBj054NTJrujzQfZ7q5zDHb skS7H4bggcD1UdfSun/4Zx8Yf9BLQ/8Av/N/8ao/4Zx8Yf8AQS0P/v8Azf8AxqumWc4qUXG/ z1uvTUzWGpJpqK08v67nlV5qd5fxwx3U3mLCCIxtAxk5PQVDb3EtpcxXEDbJYmDo2AcEdOte t/8ADOPjD/oJaH/3/m/+NUf8M4+MP+glof8A3/m/+NV5Tbbuzc5DT/E0J0WaO+u/9KllYMPL PMbD5ugx1A96WHxBY28KxRXW1F6Dy2P9K67/AIZx8Yf9BLQ/+/8AN/8AGqP+GcfGH/QS0P8A 7/zf/Gq9ChmmJow9nGWnq/8AMxnQpzd5RT+RzNjr2kRXNmstzi3gDqP3b/KHBDdsnOa5i+1q 8uIHsRcbrFXPlpsAwM8c4z6V6b/wzj4w/wCglof/AH/m/wDjVH/DOPjD/oJaH/3/AJv/AI1W WMx9bFyvUf52/Pzf3lwpxgrRR5ACVII6jkV12i+KAXvJtWvP3xUNCfK/jHA+6MdCetdj/wAM 4+MP+glof/f+b/41R/wzj4w/6CWh/wDf+b/41XPTqzpyUoOzKlFSVmtDj7fXNPtIzHBc7FJy RsY8/iKfJ4gsZjH5t1kI4cfu24I79K63/hnHxh/0EtD/AO/83/xqj/hnHxh/0EtD/wC/83/x qvUWeYvm5r/n/mYvC0m78qv6I5PUfElpJpss1td51IThoz5Z+7hQeo2/wL+Vcne3txqF09zd SeZM/wB5toGfwHFesf8ADOPjD/oJaH/3/m/+NUf8M4+MP+glof8A3/m/+NV52IxNTET56j/4 HoawhGC5YrQ47QPFJja+fVLzDvEvlHyurA8fdH86tw+JdPYeRcXebdtxZfLbqVI7DPeum/4Z x8Yf9BLQ/wDv/N/8ao/4Zx8Yf9BLQ/8Av/N/8arWjjq1GDhB6P19O5MqNOUlJrU5CDxBZ/2U sU11+/lDLOPLPKhiV6DHQnpRqPiCyl097mC6zqqzh428s9MAHgjb0UV1/wDwzj4w/wCglof/ AH/m/wDjVH/DOPjD/oJaH/3/AJv/AI1Vf2jiPZez5n63d9d+vXb0BUYKXNbX+v8AJfceUX1/ dalcm4u5fMlIwW2gfyFdg/iSwjnhe3u8eUg2ny24JUbuo9RXT/8ADOPjD/oJaH/3/m/+NUf8 M4+MP+glof8A3/m/+NVjhsVUw0nKn1HUpxqK01c4bxVq9lqNjp0VpP5hhDGQbGGGbk9RWLo8 8NtrVlPcNthjmVnbBOADz05r1P8A4Zx8Yf8AQS0P/v8Azf8Axqj/AIZx8Yf9BLQ/+/8AN/8A GqxlJyk5Pd6lJJKyOWuPEdhJcTMt3lXRoc+W3MZ7dPYe9TWOp2+rfF7w3cW03mxDUrRVbaV6 TD1A9a6P/hnHxh/0EtD/AO/83/xqtTw18AvFWjeKtI1S41DRmgsr2G4kWOaUsVRwxAzGBnA9 RXRicZVxPL7R/De3zIp0oU/gVj6LooorlNAooooAKKKKAOf/AOE28O/2x/Zf9of6R9r+w7/J k8n7Rt3eT523y/Mx/DuznjGeK6CvL9uo6J4v8jwvZa5D9u8Qebqlnd2atZvC8eZbmOcKcZwp C+aDuyNn8Nc/pF/r994ouf7Ou9cuL6DxrNBPmSd7SPTVB3od37gYzwPvj5dvagD3Cs/W9b07 w5o8+ratcfZ7GDb5kuxn27mCjhQSeSBwK8f8OQ/ED/Wy32uf2/8AZNR+0W8tnJ9m875vJzLN L5H3/LKeQmMZDfLk1X1uw1PU/hbqNna2njK71KTSrH7ZDfRzSQtcidC/lrN+9Mgw5Pl/u9oG ecUAe8Vn3et6dY6xp2k3NxsvtS837JFsY+Z5a7n5AwMA55Iz2rl/FXiG5v8Aw466HpuqyM13 bxXMj2V7bPbws/zSqqiOWXbt5WNs85PGQfN7G112717w9P4ht/Edxpun6rq0aXUVpepMls0U XknK5nCsxYDcxOMqSQDQB9AVn6rrenaJ9i/tG48n7ddx2Vv8jNvmfO1eAcZweTge9c/4J/4S L/hV9j/bv27+2/skm7/V/aereX9/5fM2bPv9/v8AOa8vbRvEmueGdJsbtPFbMviWyLXc4kEk cXlMGnQSAywsu5d+S0QcExtgkAA+gKr/AG+z/tH+zvtcH27yvP8As3mDzPLzt37eu3PGema8 ft/+Erj1O2tdV/4SM+GrXxBqUMph+0mdrcRg2p3x/v5I9xfDZI6Anhak8CaV4mXxn4Z1jxTb al57+HJLX7Q+4/vVuHZUn2dD5LKf3vVvVxwAeyVnw63p1xrlzosNx5l/axLNcRojERK33QzA bVY9QpO4jnGOa8/+In9v/wDCQ3Plf25/Zn/CP3H2D+yvP/5CW/5d/kfN93bjzPk6471J8O9K 1qHxz4n1PXra7ivJ7LTEeVsrFNKLYedt2/u3IdcZGduSBgE5AOsuPGmiW+sXmk776e+stn2m K0025uPK3ruXJjjYcjnr6+lE3jbw7b6PqmrS6htsdKu2sr2XyZD5UwZVK425bl1GQCOetcH4 20q5stZ8Q3/hu28Tx+Kb97B7WaHf9ilKMqHmP93gKG3C445yODk8/rfhXX7jwD8QvJXWQ9x4 jmlg0yO0UrdIZoiJQDGZGGMnKsB8n1yAe+UV5vq/2m++KFtbp/wkem2NnLDLNcw/bZIb+Qgb YlVcwRwjjzGYAk5HHzNXeabHqUVuy6pd2lzPvJV7W2aBQuBwVaRyTnPOe4445AI/7b07/hIf 7A+0f8TP7J9t8jY3+p37N27G373GM59qrzeKtCg8R23h59TgOr3G7ZaIS7jam87sZ2fLyN2M 9s1z/gSwvNQ1HV/GWr2k9tfanKYLO2uoyklpZxkqiFW5RmILsASpJUjFHiewvLj4peAryG0n ktbX+0PtEyRkpFugULuYcLk8DPWgDY/4Tbw7/bH9l/2h/pH2v7Dv8mTyftG3d5PnbfL8zH8O 7OeMZ4oh8beHbjR9L1aLUN1jqt2tlZS+TIPNmLMoXG3K8owyQBx1ry/+wtY/tj+y/wCyr77R /wALA/tnf9nfyfse3d5nnY8vp/Du3Z4xniqeieFdft/APw985dZL2/iOGWfTJLRQtqgmlJlI EYkUYwcsxHz/AEwAe+UV5np4v9Q+JF9NDJ4g0mC1eeG1hukvZ7e9mKnM0m4+SsC87EVlLHnK /KteiWKXkdnGt/PBPdDO+SCExI3JxhSzEcY/iPrx0oAsUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAHB 6T4i8VeJLjXZtJGjRQaXrEmnLaXcUu6ZYim9jOrYQkMxH7pscA561T8HePtGfXNf0a8Sx02+ HiCe1iW2tHjScnIRpJMFDM5jcckFtvArUtPBmr6TcasmjeI47Oz1TU21GXdYCW4jZyhkVJGf YAdpA3RtgN3IzVP/AIVl/wBRf/ma/wDhJP8Aj2/8g/f/APH/APx2gC5pPxH8PT2EBn1qO8na ym1BprXTbiKP7PG7q0hU7igBjZfmbJIGPvKK2NE8X6H4huPs+nXcjT/Z0uljmt5YGkhY4WRB Iql0JGNy5HI9RXB2vwkuNB0G+Sz1P+0LoeGrvR4YfIEXmvLLJMrbi5A5cLg/XI6VqeFfh2yJ YX/ij7JeTpoVtpP9nm1Xyo0RhIRJuZxI4YL8w2j5c45GACPVfiX/AGTrXjnTru50q2k0a0il 0uOeTY91I0BkKkFxv+baMLg8+pFbFr8QdJt/D2j3ms3PlX15pUepTQ2ltLN5UZRS8hVAxSMF sbm44PJwaj/4V9DHL4xNveRwQeIbKKzjhjtgFs1jgaEYAbDDDZx8uMYrLv8A4UJc/wBlSxX9 i91Y6ImjltQ0tbuMhMFZkjZwEkB3dS4wcY65AKeo/E/UofGcul2Memz6f/bGk2UM4DMXhu4n kdwwfBPyjaQMYPINeqV5vJ8JkOvDUotY2RrqGmXiw/Y1GBZxNGE+Qqo3bs/KoC4wFx09IoAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooA//9k= --------------040809070007020904060404-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29873 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 18:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 18:36:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 9707 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 18:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 18:36:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hcGw-0003ZZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:07:54 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([212.204.115.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hcGv-0003ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:07:53 +0000 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-039.fen-net.de [212.204.116.39]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA27477 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:30:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002f01c1c2e1$d6a12640$2774ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: A new one Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:32:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello to All,
    a new OM on LF in my neighbourhood: DL2NDO, Ralph, just one Km apart from me east of Erlangen. Power 200W, antenna in this moment only 20m wire up about 10m. So he has to do some antenna-work. But his QRM here is already big enough.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10405 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 17:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 17:24:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 9343 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 17:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 17:23:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hbCA-0003OQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:58:54 +0000 Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.203]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hbC9-0003OL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:58:53 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d37.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.236]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g23HKB592456; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:20:12 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: "Lowfer/Hifer Reflector" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Anything to get on the air... Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:21:26 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: High In-reply-to: <002501c1c294$4a8eb7a0$295f073e@dave> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I agree with Dave G3YMC as to getting on the air with whatever it takes. Many people don't have the property to put up a good antenna. I myself have too many trees to make a vertical work on LF, so I am building the Ashlock loops. It doesn't matter if you have a big antenna or big amp or the best radios, this is a hobby to enjoy with whatever we can have. If you have a weak signal, it doesn't matter. Just enjoy being on LF, as it is better than not being able to operate on LF at all. By using low power or having a weak signal, it may advance the new software development, as there is a need for it with signals below the noise floor. Just look at the US operators on LF, they most likely could have never achieved the 2000+ mile receptions with the legal 1-w, without using all of this great software that so many of you generous people develop and give to us free of charge. Everyone can along from the rich to the poor and from the best-equipped station to the compromised station. Maybe just consider working the weaker signal stations as a great accomplishment on your part as being able to decode their signal. It is like chasing that rare DX station on HF that is barely readable. These are my comments and I welcome feedback both good and bad. 73's fr, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sergeant Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 3:08 AM To: rsgb_lf_group Subject: Re: LF: RE: Diversity >>From Dave G3YMC G3KEV wrote: >Maybe your friends are transmitting on full size loops. >Let me know how you get on and try a vertical as well for comparison. As one of those 'friends' perhaps I should comment! Mal will presumably expect his large 'normal' antenna to outperform a loop at the same location unless it is very large, as he has a very large site and can erect big antennas. I have a very small site, well shielded with poor ground conditions. My loop is a means to get on the band where I would not otherwise be able to do so, and to be realistic I do not expect big results from my qth whatever I do. I have recently done comparitive tests with a 10m top loaded vertical, the best I can sensibly achieve, and there is certainly not the huge improvement Mal suggests. Details of these tests are on my website at http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk/vertical.htm. It may be that the vertical is not optimised, and in anycase is difficult to get clear of vegetation etc - the very problem Bill Ashlock in the USA has which he has overcome with loops. There are some signals which I can hear better on the vertical, but they are few and generally in the direction of the loop nulls, and in a typical urban location local noise normally makes the loop the best all round antenna. No big expectations of dx here - if Mal can only just hear me he should remember it is 325km and no mean distance for my set up. It may be a compromise, and certainly does not perform like some setups do, but the loop does at least get me on the air from a difficult qth. I am currently building an Elecraft K2 10W hf transceiver. When that is complete shortly I shall devoting far more time to the hf bands. With normal cw activity on 136 at an all time low I can no longer devote all my time to that. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 267 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 16:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 16:23:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10177 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 16:23:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 16:23:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16haCp-0003Gu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:55:31 +0000 Received: from mailout11.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.85]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16haCo-0003Go-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:55:30 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16hYfk-0001xr-02; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:17:16 +0100 Received: from (024074273-0001@[217.2.113.179]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16hYfc-0449qaC; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:17:08 +0100 From: "Walter Schmischke" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Infos obout lf qrp X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:17:08 +0100 Message-ID: <16hYfc-0449qaC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 024074273-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, DL1KSW 03.03.02 Hello, 26 and 27.03. my xyl and I are in London, a little bit holyday, hi... Is in London a shop with new and old things in hamradio, perhaps for lf? I think, I have time to look some time, thanks for answer. 72, 73, de Walter, DL1KSW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3232 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 09:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 09:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 14882 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hTdD-0002YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:54:19 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hTdC-0002YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:54:18 +0000 Received: from host62-7-95-41.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([62.7.95.41] helo=dave) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hS6K-0006vC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:16:16 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c1c294$4a8eb7a0$295f073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3C80AB6D.DAFB4C83@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Diversity Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:07:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3KEV wrote: >Maybe your friends are transmitting on full size loops. >Let me know how you get on and try a vertical as well for comparison. As one of those 'friends' perhaps I should comment! Mal will presumably expect his large 'normal' antenna to outperform a loop at the same location unless it is very large, as he has a very large site and can erect big antennas. I have a very small site, well shielded with poor ground conditions. My loop is a means to get on the band where I would not otherwise be able to do so, and to be realistic I do not expect big results from my qth whatever I do. I have recently done comparitive tests with a 10m top loaded vertical, the best I can sensibly achieve, and there is certainly not the huge improvement Mal suggests. Details of these tests are on my website at http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk/vertical.htm. It may be that the vertical is not optimised, and in anycase is difficult to get clear of vegetation etc - the very problem Bill Ashlock in the USA has which he has overcome with loops. There are some signals which I can hear better on the vertical, but they are few and generally in the direction of the loop nulls, and in a typical urban location local noise normally makes the loop the best all round antenna. No big expectations of dx here - if Mal can only just hear me he should remember it is 325km and no mean distance for my set up. It may be a compromise, and certainly does not perform like some setups do, but the loop does at least get me on the air from a difficult qth. I am currently building an Elecraft K2 10W hf transceiver. When that is complete shortly I shall devoting far more time to the hf bands. With normal cw activity on 136 at an all time low I can no longer devote all my time to that. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12660 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 19:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 19:49:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7495 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hGwJ-0000xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:21:11 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hGwI-0000xY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:21:10 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id l.d3.76b9fc3 (18556) for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:42:33 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:42:33 EST Subject: LF: Chirped Hell, 10 Hz and 5 Hz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi group, mni tnx to Ko NL9222, who has sent a pair of Argograms of my Slow-Hell transmissions, allowing a direct comparison of 5 Hz and 10 Hz bandwidths. As expected, the readability of the narrower version was better, but the amount of difference was surprising: barely readable T to M in 10 Hz versus comfortable O in 5 Hz, certainly more than 3 dB's worth. The 10 Hz Hell mode is based on 1.35 Hz x 0.74 s pixels. Accounting for a factor of 2 due to the receiver's Hanning window, this is optimally matched to a FFT bin width of 0.67 Hz (8192 bins at 5512.5 Hz samplerate). However, the generally preferred resolution for 3s-QRSS is 0.34 Hz bins (as in Argo), rather suited for 5 Hz MT-Hell. To send chirped Hell at half speed in a 5 Hz, you can to modify "Hell1g8.bas" to produce a new set of audio files. In the 4th line of code, simply replace "samplespercol = 4096& * 2" by "samplespercol = 4096& * 4" and run it (F5 key). On my computer, I keep seperate sets of files in different directories. Today, after a nice QRSS/Hell QSO with Fabian, Geri and I had a long contact in the afternoon using PSK and Hell. We successfully tried QRP (4 W PEP) in both modes, also indicating that very slow PSK might indeed be an excellent choice for weak-signal work. - A few minutes later, Cesare's Hell from Firenze showed up again around 137690, just on the fringe of readibility due to QSB and local QRN. It certainly is fun... 73 and happy experimenting Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10671 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 18:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 18:29:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13443 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 18:29:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 18:29:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hFhY-0000mN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:01:52 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hFhX-0000mI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:01:51 +0000 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-49.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.49] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16hDyy-0007eL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3C8102CC.3AFD81C0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:50:20 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: F6CWA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just had a QSO with a new French stn F6CWA, Qth Lyon, his RST 579 nice signal here in Scarborough/IO94SH. The 136 khz band is very quiet this w/end so far, but also had a Qso earlier with OH1TN. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23487 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 14:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 14:49:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18587 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hCIN-0000L4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:23:39 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hCIM-0000Kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:23:39 +0000 Received: from [212.1.138.194] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16hAaJ-0004rC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:34:04 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c1c1f9$0b4d0920$c28a01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Mystery carriers Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:46:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The 137450 signa was me - soak testing the transmitter after a minor mod - did you miss the 1Meg WPM CW ID :-) Andy -----Original Message----- From: Laurie Mayhead To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 02 March 2002 10:34 Subject: LF: Mystery carriers >Hi All, >I am recieving two strong carriers today, on 137.450 S9+20db, >and 137.745 S9. Time 10:25, Any ideas 73s Laurie > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9711 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16201 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 14:07:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 14:07:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hBfU-0000Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:43:28 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16hBfU-0000EX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:43:28 +0000 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-99.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.99] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16h9wz-0005or-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:53:25 +0000 Message-ID: <3C80DC23.F0BDE415@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:05:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: DK7KO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Can someone qsp to Peter that I copied his signal a few mins ago on 136.55 khz cw at 1049 utc. I caught the end of his tel nr 2616215 then Test DK7KO his RST 439. I called him on his QRG in case he was listening, but got no response. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28936 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 12:18:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 12:18:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 15235 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 12:18:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 12:18:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h9qc-0008Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:46:50 +0000 Received: from mail4.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.203]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h9qa-0008Vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:46:49 +0000 Received: from k6500 (d44.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.243]) by mail4.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g22C8Z562595 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:08:35 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: Diversity Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:09:34 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3C80AB6D.DAFB4C83@netscapeonline.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The loop has to be at least 13m to 15m vertically and at least 762sq meter total area or bigger to work decent. If you go with a loop of 15m vertical or greater and make the horizontal part more like 30.5m or so, it will work much better. All of these figures are for 166kc. I would make a loop for 136kc much bigger if you can. Bill has found that he can run the loops in the tree branches without any trouble. So that helps in finding a place to put one up. I should be able to setup a temporary 610m loop this summer and try it on 166.5kc. I think it is going to work well. 73's, Mike>WE0H http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of gii3kev Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 4:38 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Diversity WE0H wrote: > Hi Mal, > When you say the loop doesn't pick up the low angle DX signals, are you > using a horizontal or vertical loop??? I am not using any loop antennas at present but intend to make a vertical loop as per my message. > Bill Ashlock on the east coast of the > US is using vertical loops on 1750-meters with excellent results. He can > transmit a 1w signal 1000 miles easily. What kind of loops are the Europeans > using for transmit??? Over the past couple of years several EU stations have been using loops for transmitting as well as vertical antennas and when testing one against the other the vertical antenna outperforms the loop by a long way, very big difference between the two systems. I have made this observation while working and listening to their signals at this QTH and using my vertical antenna for both TX and RX. I expect they are using small vertical loops near the ground but I am not sure, they might join in with some comment. I intend to make my loop vertical and each side about 20 metres long, still small for 136 khz, but bigger than some. My experience of small loops relative to frequency on 160 metres is that they do not perform anything like a full size vertical. They do not pull in the long haul dx like the vertical ie KH6/VK/ZL etc A full size loop for the frequency would be a different story. Using small loops and suitable RF amplification on receive can have advantages, especially for those living in environmentally noise polluted areas. I intend to use my loop for RX comparisons against the vertical and not TX. Maybe your friends are transmitting on full size loops. Let me know how you get on and try a vertical as well for comparison. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3675 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 10:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 10:46:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16176 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 10:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 10:46:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h8Sp-0008KH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:18:11 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h8So-0008KC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:18:10 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-142.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.142] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16h6kJ-0005k7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3C80AB6D.DAFB4C83@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:37:33 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Diversity References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WE0H wrote: > Hi Mal, > When you say the loop doesn't pick up the low angle DX signals, are you > using a horizontal or vertical loop??? I am not using any loop antennas at present but intend to make a vertical loop as per my message. > Bill Ashlock on the east coast of the > US is using vertical loops on 1750-meters with excellent results. He can > transmit a 1w signal 1000 miles easily. What kind of loops are the Europeans > using for transmit??? Over the past couple of years several EU stations have been using loops for transmitting as well as vertical antennas and when testing one against the other the vertical antenna outperforms the loop by a long way, very big difference between the two systems. I have made this observation while working and listening to their signals at this QTH and using my vertical antenna for both TX and RX. I expect they are using small vertical loops near the ground but I am not sure, they might join in with some comment. I intend to make my loop vertical and each side about 20 metres long, still small for 136 khz, but bigger than some. My experience of small loops relative to frequency on 160 metres is that they do not perform anything like a full size vertical. They do not pull in the long haul dx like the vertical ie KH6/VK/ZL etc A full size loop for the frequency would be a different story. Using small loops and suitable RF amplification on receive can have advantages, especially for those living in environmentally noise polluted areas. I intend to use my loop for RX comparisons against the vertical and not TX. Maybe your friends are transmitting on full size loops. Let me know how you get on and try a vertical as well for comparison. 73 de Mal/G3KEV > I am putting up a vertical loop soon and will report > my results to the Lowfer reflector as well as this reflector. > > Mike > http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf > Of gii3kev > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:55 PM > To: rsgb rsgb > Subject: LF: Diversity > > Hello LF > Is there a s/ware package available to enable space diversity reception > using a stereo sound card, RH channel for one rx audio input and the LH > for the other rx input. > for instance a vertical ant and a loop ant input. Preferably visual > indication for each antenna and the option to select one or the other or > both. > I am building a square vertical loop ant each side about 20 metres to > observe the difference on RX between a vertical and a loop. Going on > observations from signals used by others using a loop on TX, the results > are not as good as the vertical, but it would be interesting to check on > receive I have tried a 40 metre loop resonant on 160 metres and although > it is quieter than my quarter wave vertical the pick up performance is > not as good as the vertical, long range weak signals could not be heard. > > For dx the low angle full size vertical is better than the small mostly > high angle loop. > The same probably applies to 73 and 136 khz. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5403 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 10:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 10:36:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9165 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2002 10:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 10:36:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h8HO-0008Ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:06:22 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16h8HN-0008Ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:06:22 +0000 Received: from modem-158.ekkaia.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.177.158] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 16h6kT-0006XK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c1c1d5$2f649400$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Mystery carriers Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:28:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I am recieving two strong carriers today, on 137.450 S9+20db, and 137.745 S9. Time 10:25, Any ideas 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12637 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 23:28:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 23:28:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 15636 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 23:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 23:28:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gxv5-00072m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:02:39 +0000 Received: from mx13.mx.voyager.net ([216.93.66.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gxv4-00072h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:02:38 +0000 Received: from mail3.mx.voyager.net (mail3.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.202]) by mx13.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g21NOR097423 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from k6500 (d22.ias0.mpls.mn.pclink.com [206.11.3.221]) by mail3.mx.voyager.net (8.11.6/8.10.2) with SMTP id g21NOYw77583 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:24:34 -0500 (EST) From: "WE0H" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Diversity Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:25:19 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3C7FCE9C.11C311EC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, When you say the loop doesn't pick up the low angle DX signals, are you using a horizontal or vertical loop??? Bill Ashlock on the east coast of the US is using vertical loops on 1750-meters with excellent results. He can transmit a 1w signal 1000 miles easily. What kind of loops are the Europeans using for transmit??? I am putting up a vertical loop soon and will report my results to the Lowfer reflector as well as this reflector. Mike http://www.geocities.com/we0h/index.html -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of gii3kev Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:55 PM To: rsgb rsgb Subject: LF: Diversity Hello LF Is there a s/ware package available to enable space diversity reception using a stereo sound card, RH channel for one rx audio input and the LH for the other rx input. for instance a vertical ant and a loop ant input. Preferably visual indication for each antenna and the option to select one or the other or both. I am building a square vertical loop ant each side about 20 metres to observe the difference on RX between a vertical and a loop. Going on observations from signals used by others using a loop on TX, the results are not as good as the vertical, but it would be interesting to check on receive I have tried a 40 metre loop resonant on 160 metres and although it is quieter than my quarter wave vertical the pick up performance is not as good as the vertical, long range weak signals could not be heard. For dx the low angle full size vertical is better than the small mostly high angle loop. The same probably applies to 73 and 136 khz. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15489 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:10:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7293 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 19:10:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 19:10:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gttv-0006L9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:45:11 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gttu-0006L4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:45:10 +0000 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-35.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.35] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16gsBR-0006L5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:55:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3C7FCE9C.11C311EC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:55:24 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Diversity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Is there a s/ware package available to enable space diversity reception using a stereo sound card, RH channel for one rx audio input and the LH for the other rx input. for instance a vertical ant and a loop ant input. Preferably visual indication for each antenna and the option to select one or the other or both. I am building a square vertical loop ant each side about 20 metres to observe the difference on RX between a vertical and a loop. Going on observations from signals used by others using a loop on TX, the results are not as good as the vertical, but it would be interesting to check on receive I have tried a 40 metre loop resonant on 160 metres and although it is quieter than my quarter wave vertical the pick up performance is not as good as the vertical, long range weak signals could not be heard. For dx the low angle full size vertical is better than the small mostly high angle loop. The same probably applies to 73 and 136 khz. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26060 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 17:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 17:57:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 3911 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 17:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 17:57:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gsfL-0006Ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:26:03 +0000 Received: from ananke4.qdnet.pl ([195.116.13.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gsfJ-0006Am-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:26:02 +0000 Received: from tt ([212.244.254.114]) by ananke4.qdnet.pl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:46:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c1c148$c740bfc0$1400000a@tt> From: "Richard S Hill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200202282155.g1SLt2i12224@db0bm.ampr.org> Subject: LF: RX 136khz Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:44:44 +0100 Organization: translations@qdnet.pl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2002 17:46:50.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[11270DB0:01C1C149] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now this might seems a silly question. I am thinking about buying the VR 500 yeasu which goes down to 100Khz. Would be it good enough to rx on 136khz as I have seen that you guys are using very low power, computers and various from of CW. What antenna could you suggest for urban use? Ricahrd ex g6gge From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3013 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 09:12:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 09:12:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11934 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 09:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 09:12:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gkTe-0004xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:41:26 +0000 Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16gkTd-0004xe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:41:25 +0000 Received: from [195.22.0.26] (helo=rhun.esoterica.pt) by phobos.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 16giwi-0006u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 04:03:20 -0500 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g218eo214115 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:40:50 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por198.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.198]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g218eoC05928 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:40:50 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020301084201.009e6100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:42:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: DK7KO beaconing 136.5 In-reply-to: <200202282155.g1SLt2i12224@db0bm.ampr.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Fabian, there is a continuous transmission on 136.5KHz at this end of Europe, so not much chance of seeing any test transmission. 73, Brian At 22:55 28/02/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hello group, > >Peter, DK7KO is beaconing right now on 136,5 kHz and asks for reports via >02261/62156 (or 00492261 62156 if you call from abroad).. > >73, Fabian dj1yfk > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian